Jefferson Fisher
Appearances
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When somebody is belittling you or being rude or being disrespectful, what we typically want to do is throw it right back because now we got to win. Instead of that, here's what I would want you to do. One, you're going to have five to seven seconds of silence. Two, you're going to ask them to say it again because a lot of time in arguments, people take it back.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I mean, like, you know what I mean? But there's something about it where these kind of people in your life that you're looking and drawn to the calm energy, the anchors in your relationship and your conversations, the people that just to be near them, calms you down. Just to be around them, you go, okay, great. Stephen's here. I feel better. Good. Okay, he's here.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
All right, things are going to go all right. Because they're looking for the person who is going to be the lead, not just in the conversation, but the frequency of the room. It's a calm energy that you have to capture.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You can see that a lot in interviews. The person who you go, oh, this person is smart, is when you ask them a regular interview question, and if they give a breath before they answer, you go, oh, they actually are listening to me. The ones that have this rapid fire of...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So let's say, for example, and this uses another technique that we'll talk about, is if you were to say, would you bring some value? Do you think you'd bring value to this company? And if I automatically said, oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I would. I think I'd bring a lot of value to this company. Versus? I'm confident I bring a lot of value to this company.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Like you hear all of a sudden, you go, that's my person. They actually heard me, considered it, and I'm really curious about what they're going to say next.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Right. And that's why every time I teach a client and I'm preparing them for their deposition, what they call a depo.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. So people that hire me in my law firm.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And now that's translated to me doing it on my phone and teaching people in my own membership is I would say, okay, let your breath be the first word. And once you do that, you're going to be, the other person's going to go, oh man, they really listened to my question. See, attorneys, we want to get you. We want to get you in a rapid fire. We want you to answer very quickly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Even better is when you start to step over my question and answer the question that you think I'm already going to ask. When you do that, that means you're not listening. You're not listening. But when I can get a client to stop, breathe, and go, Yeah, you know what? That's not fair.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I had a client, Elizabeth, who one time when I was prepping her, I would kind of, I would act as the other attorney. So I'd do that often to help get them and simulate what's going to happen. I would say, all right, Ms. Carson, come on. I need you to answer this question. That's true. It's fair to say you didn't see that other car, did you? And I kind of start to push them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That gets them really nervous. You know, they're, oh my gosh, and their nerves get up. It's because they're not breathing. When people start to shake, it's not breathing. And so she didn't know what to say when I'm prepping her. Come time after I taught her about her breath, same question. Somebody said, and I knew this attorney, I knew he was going to ask that question.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
He said, it's fair to say you didn't see that at the car. And she took a breath. She goes, no, that's not fair to say. I mean, I just left it at that. I mean, and he just couldn't really do anything with it. But the bigger thing was it gave her the confidence of saying, no, I listened. I see where you're going with this. I'm not going to go there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And so it helps you navigate and empower you really with the tools of making sure you're always saying it with control. Another part of saying with control is slowing your words down. When people talk really fast, without thinking about it, it gets us kind of anxious. When somebody is talking really, really fast, you're like, okay, I'm trying to understand you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's harder, let's say, I mean, I like hip-hop. I like rap music. If you listen to somebody who's rapping really, really fast and you can't understand a word they're saying, you're kind of like, okay, I'm lost in this song. I like the beat. That's great, but I can't understand what you're saying. people that slow their words down shows a lot more effectiveness when you communicate.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So let's illustrate this. I want you to say quickly with almost some exasperation, I already told you I'm not going to do that. Say that real quick. I already told you I'm not going to do that. Say it louder. I already told you I'm not going to do that. Perfect. Now what you have to do is slow it down. Slow it way down. Each word, you don't have to have the disdain with it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Just slow it down and say it again.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Say it even slower.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, man, that's awesome. So you see how without the emotion, you sounded even more in control. Somebody who goes, I already told you I'm not going to do that, says, I have maybe 5% control. But if I slow it down, same thing, and I say, I already told you I'm not going to do that. Now I sound like I have 100% control. This is the person you go, whoa, okay. They're not moving off their spot.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They're not somebody who's, I can't press their buttons and control their emotions that way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Somebody who would be not aware of their emotions, not aware of their triggers. Somebody who just, let's put it as a lack of awareness of certain things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. I mean, they play a role with anything. My counter to that is we can overcome it. It's not your self-esteem that's talking. It's the words. The words do it for you. We have people who have a hard time saying what they want. It's the words that they need to say.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So when somebody is having a hard time with self-esteem, what I find is all I need to do is get them to start beginning their sentences with certain words, and it's always a different outcome. They just don't know how to begin it. So it's very curious on how somebody who rarely does people with self-esteem issues say, I need, for example.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They typically don't like to say that because it feels too forward. Somebody who has self-esteem issues will typically begin with, so maybe like, and I was thinking this, and you can totally tell me if I'm wrong, but that's the kind of thing that you typically hear. They're just using the wrong words to begin their sentences. Yeah. You have to find words that push the progress of the sentence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
For example, if someone says like all the time. I mean, when you said that, like, it just really upset me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That doesn't push the sentence forward. If you trade out the word like for the word because, I mean, that just hurt because when you said that, that hurt me. I'm pushing the sentence forward rather than letting it drag. And so it's just these little bitty tweaks that one or two words make a big, big difference. So that was the first point. You said control. Yeah, control. Say it with control.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Okay. Is there a second point? Number two, say it with confidence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
How do I say something with confidence? You have to first understand what it is. And I don't mean that in like a woo-woo setting. A lot of people come to me and go, how do I have the confidence to say this? I'm getting up the courage or confidence to say that. It's the wrong way to look at it. Confidence is not what you have before. Confidence is the outcome.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm Jefferson Fisher. I'm a board-certified trial attorney, and I teach people how to argue less, and say more. And I'm on a mission to help change everything about someone simply by what they decide to say next. What is a trial attorney? Is that a lawyer? Yeah, it's a lawyer, attorney, same thing. And what do you do as a trial attorney? So I help people resolve conflict, resolve problems.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And you get to that by saying things that are assertive. What I teach is confidence is as assertive does. So when you learn how to use your assertive voice, the result is feeling confident. Like if I were to tell you right now, Stephen, I need you to feel sad. You have a hard time feeling sad. If I said, I need you to be afraid right now, you'd be like, I don't know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I mean, what is there to be afraid of? Like, you just can't conjure that feeling. Now, if I, for whatever reason, just gave you an elbow to the chest, I mean, you'd be, like, upset, right? You don't have to wonder what it's like to feel mad. You're going to feel it. It's the same with confidence. You can't just conjure up the feeling of confidence. You only get it by doing assertive things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And the people that are most confident – I find are the people that have done the thing already. So they have already said the assertive thing. They've already used their voice because the more assertive they are, the more confident they're going to feel. That's the way it works. So you do it. You find confidence by using your assertive voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Right.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's a balance. It's a balance between sounding almost passive and sounding aggressive. Assertive says, I'm willing to be direct with you even in the face of it not going well, but I'm at least going to give you my truth. Or I'm going to say what I need to say without sounding rude. Whenever you are direct with someone, it's also very kind to someone.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If I were to tell you and prep the sentence with, Steve, I'm going to tell you this because I know you can handle it. That's different than me going, hey, look, this is probably going to upset you. And I don't mean to upset you, but you just let me know. That is a whole lot harder. The assertive voice is I'm going to be very direct.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
At the same time, I'm going to say it with a sense of this doesn't have to do with me trying to push my way. I'm just letting you know where I stand. You don't have to always play nice. That's not what I'm saying. There are times when somebody says something that's terrible to you. You don't have to push back. You just can't be pushed over.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And so when you learn your assertive voice, that's where you find ways to speak your truth more easily and more readily. So one of the first words or lessons of say it and using your assertive voice is that every word matters. The number one culprit of that is the word just. We use the word just a lot. It's probably one of my weaknesses that I have is using the word just.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
In common conversation, no problem. Nobody cares. But when it comes to having to push a boundary, say something at work, be a little bit more on your toes, just has a way of making you sound hesitant. The most common way we hear that is if somebody goes, maybe an email or a text, hey, just wanted to check in with you. Hey, do you have five seconds? Just wanted to touch base with you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It sounds like you're hesitant, as if like, I don't really want to bother you. If you remove the word just, now you're leaning into it. So instead of, I just want to check in, I wanted to check in with you. that's a lot more forward, a lot more forward progress rather than just using the word just. But every little word matters.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You've had those texts where somebody gives you like a whole paragraph. I don't know how to respond to this. What I teach is that the longer your answer, the more questions you're going to get, the longer that conversation is going to go, the longer the argument is going to go. So you have to find ways to say more with less.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So if you have a problem with someone, you have a choice, Do you go and just punch them in the mouth or do you sue them? A lot of the times it's something that somebody has hurt you that they cannot give back to you. So the only way they do that in the law is to compensate them with money. And so you can sue just about anybody. So that's how we resolve conflict here a lot in America.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yes. It's this idea of the more words it takes to tell the truth, the more it sounds like a lie. The more you have to say to explain something to me, the more I start to assume you don't know what you're talking about. And we have this way of, I guess they call it word vomit, where you talk a whole lot. People get lost in your sentences.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And also when you choose to speak, it makes a very big difference. Like, have you ever been in one of those meetings and there's always this one person that has to throw in their two cents? They always have to throw out their idea or be the devil's advocate or have something to say at every single issue that gets brought up.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Most of the time, those are the people that are honestly the least connected to what's actually happening or at least part of the conversation because they want you to know how smart they are or how many people they know. These are the same people that name drop like every other sentence. The person that is like, you know, oh, I was talking with Steven the other day. Oh, you know Steven, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, yeah, great guy. And they start to name drop just so you know how many people that they know. Insecurities are very loud. Confidence, on the other hand, is very quiet. Insecure people have the need to say everything so that I sound more believable, so you'll know how much I know and how smart I am. Confident people have the urge to say nothing because they have nothing to prove.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If you disagree with me on something that I know to be true, I wouldn't be nearly as affected. Let's say we both have on a black shirt. If you were like, Jefferson, this is a dumb purple shirt you have on. Okay. Like I don't need to convince you what I already know the color of my shirt is.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's like if you know that about yourself, what you have internally inside, you don't have the need, the insecurity to prove it to everybody else that they're wrong. The confidence is very quiet. The people that are typically the most looked to are the people that say the least.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
No. I mean, the people that are not emotionally intelligent, the people that don't have the emotional awareness, yeah, you can press their buttons and play them like a fiddle. Because what they've done is that would be like me giving you the remote. Say, here, here's the remote to my emotions. Go ahead, play them. Press that button. Oh, yeah. Oh, you made me angry? How dare you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Instead of handing out remote controls, you get in the habit of giving out manuals. And so if you want to yell at me and press my button... And me to say, you can't yell at me like that versus me handing you a manual and go, hey, I heard you yell at me. If you don't mind, go to page 72. You can look on paragraph three. I don't respond to that volume.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Like you're giving a whole different mind shift of this is what I tolerate and this is what I don't tolerate.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, people pleasing is very hard. I mean, the thing is you can please people, just make sure that you're one of them. And that's the harder part is I'm always – people say I'm always saying yes to things. I don't know how to say no to things. I don't know where to go with this. That's a whole lot harder. Using your assertive voice is – helps with that in a lot of ways.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's the same for the U.K. and litigation. So what we do is we advocate on behalf of other people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And it is about trying to make sure that when you people please with people, you have to find a way to set a boundary that is going to protect yourself.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. Where they also go into trouble is when people, what I see a lot, are people that over-apologize. I find that that is big with people pleasers, where they say, I'm sorry in every single sentence. Hey, so sorry I'm just now getting back to you. Sorry I just now seen this. Oh, I can't come. So sorry. They start to apologize for things that are not a mistake.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They apologize for things that are not errors. And when you start to over-apologize with every little thing, without you knowing it, it's slowly, drip by drip, corroding your sense of self-esteem, your sense of self-worth. Your self-worth is not tied to how little of an inconvenience you can make yourself. But I was saying, so sorry, I don't mean to bother you. I just have a quick question.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And three, this is where it gets fun. I want you to say... That's where your real power is because it shows that you're the one in control and they're the ones that are not. I'm Jefferson Fisher. I'm a board-certified trial attorney and I help people resolve conflict, resolve problems.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Instead of the over-apologies, what I teach is use words of gratitude. So instead of the, so sorry I'm late, even though you were like one minute late. Thank you for waiting on me. Or let's say it's an email. Thank you for giving me the time to think on this. Thank you for giving me the time to reply. Thank you for giving me the patience. And you know what the other person is going to think?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I am patient. Oh, yes, I am. You're so welcome. I mean, you're using words of gratitude to press that. And that's a whole lot easier than the problem of people pleasers. And that's just over apologizing to just about everything. Or they undercut their words. Or they say like, I hate to bother you, but... And then they have to say what they need to say.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So it's going to most often, it's just going to come down to their personality. But overall, your most effective leaders find ways of taking a lot of ideas and words and saying them very concisely. The bigger leaders, they don't write long emails.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They don't write long texts.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, I have found in my own life that the richer somebody is, they could care less about an email signature. If they even have one, and they might give you two sentences, maybe. I mean, it's very, very quick and to the point. because it's either they really don't have the time. It's not really that. They want to have the appearance of being very direct, and they don't see that as an offense.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They don't see that as an insult. They see that as that is the way that I'm going to operate. They don't write long emails. They don't write them in a way that's going, hey, I just want to put this on your plate, and if I'm wrong about this, you can totally let me know, and I have a question about this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, what I say, the words that I give give me the difference between somebody getting their peace of mind back or losing everything.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, we say it with control, say it with confidence, and three is say it to connect. These are how do you have these difficult conversations with somebody? How do you find ways to say what you need to say in one of the most difficult times?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That gives a lot of people anxiety if they know they have to have a difficult conversation, even in weeks ahead, especially the day ahead, they're just dreading it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
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Yeah, what you want to do is get really curious about the other person, but not just so much that there is a framework that I can even give you. So we can go a step further. There is a framework. And I call them conversational frames. When to connect with somebody, it is a fancy word. I think connection can be overused at times.
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It just means I say something that you can understand and you acknowledge me. That's all we're looking for. It doesn't mean that everything's happy. It doesn't mean that it's a Hallmark car. I can connect with you. and still be upset at you. My dad used to tell me if I disagree with something, he'd say, he'd go, you don't have to like it. You just need to understand it.
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I mean, that right there was a great example of allowing me to connect with him and giving me the space to disagree. If you were to begin your sentence with, I'm not asking to change your mind, or I don't need to change your mind, it's almost like a relief before you say the rest of what you need to say. Now you're not in that combative fight or flight of, do I have to defend myself at any time?
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So connection is this way of setting up conversations that is going to get you more of what you want. We talked about the frame. Here's how to do it. And this is the most effective tool that you can use for a difficult conversation. Number one, you're going to begin with telling them what you want to talk about.
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Number two, you tell them, and this is the most important, how you want to end the conversation, what you want to walk away from. And three, you get their buy-in into that conversational frame. This is what it sounds like. Let's say this is, I need to come to you and talk about something serious. So first I'm going to say what we need to talk about.
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Steven, I'd like to talk with you about some comments you made at last Thursday's meeting. Two, I'm going to tell them how I want to walk away. It sounds like, and I want to walk away from that conversation with the understanding that's not going to happen again. Three, I'm going to get their buy-in. I'm going to say, that sound good? You're going to say, yeah.
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Now you know exactly where we're going. You know exactly what we're going to talk about, you know, when that conversation is going to end and how it's going to end. And now I have your buy-in. And it's like almost an invisible contract when somebody goes, yeah, that's good. We can talk about that. They don't want to leave it. They don't want to break their words.
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So they know that they're going to be stuck in it.
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number one would be set the goal of knowing where it's going to end. That is the hardest, probably the biggest downfall of the difficult conversation. People expect them to go how they had it in their head. They want the conversation to happen just like they had it while they were brushing their teeth that morning or driving on the way into work. They're like, okay, I'm going to say this.
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And then they're going to say this. And you expect everything to go just how you had it in your head. But as soon as they say that one thing you weren't expecting, All of a sudden, they disagree with you, and you go, wait, that's not how it's supposed to be. They were supposed to say this. They were supposed to say I'm right. They were supposed to say they're wrong. I mean, how's this going to go?
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And then it begins to falter like that.
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I teach that you never want to win an argument, and this is why. When you look to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship. If you set out to only prove people wrong, you might win the point, but you will lose the person. Being right doesn't keep you company. Let's put it that way. When I look at arguments as only something to win,
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So I grew up while other kids were maybe playing when they got home. I got picked up and taken to my dad's deposition because my dad was the only one who could get me at that time. And so I sat in the corner with a yellow notepad doodling while he is finishing the rest of his deposition. Or I'd go to... Watch his trial. I saw lots of closing arguments.
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All of one is really the first step to apologize, typically, when you set out to win. Because most arguments aren't really won. It's just they're won by forfeit. Somebody goes, I'm over this. Or you said something that was really hurtful that makes them say, we're done. I don't want to talk about this. An argument eventually burns out. That's what happens.
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But when you set out to win, you will lose the relationship. Like if you and I are in an argument, and I say something that's really hurtful, and then you leave, you hang up the phone. What have I won? Yeah, I mean, I've won awkward silence now when we pass each other in the hall. I've won that awkward feeling now I have to pick up the phone and apologize.
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I still have to find a way to probably work with you or live with you. What have you proven? When has ever you go on the social media and disparage somebody's political belief ever changed their mind, ever?
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Yeah, you will.
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Yeah.
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That's not to explain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not an uncommon experience. Whenever you feel like you had to always be right, that's what we really want. We want the last word. When you have the last word, you are typically first up to apologize. That's all you've bought yourself. That's your prize. Congrats. And when that happens, you find a way of going, that's not really what I want.
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I wondered, why did I say that? That was just hubris. That was just me. I just had a feeling of being right. And sometimes we have that feeling of Especially in terms of people that are in charge of other people, we expect others to do what we say. When you're in work mode and you say, I need this done, people get it done. You set the tone. This is how we want to do it.
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And sometimes we translate that into our own romantic relationships. Oh, no, I said it needs to be this way. So you know what you need to do? You need to do it this way. And it's a different shift when you're doing something that's romantic versus something that is you have to be captain of the ship.
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And so whenever you're in those difficult conversations, you only seem something to win, you're going to have a hard problem. What I teach is instead of seeing arguments as something to win, you see them as something to unravel, meaning what we want to do is pull my way, and then you pull it your way, and it just makes it worse. It makes it worse.
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We have to give up, and it's not until that next conversation that we actually try and care of what happened. I will often tell someone, help me find the knot. Help me find the knot. And what I'm doing is encouraging them to say, I'm not saying, what's wrong with you? I'm not saying, can you be any more stupid? I'm saying, help me find the nod.
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And so I got to see firsthand courtroom stories. I mean, any of these people who've been in trial litigation, they're all wonderful storytellers. So you get to hear that and hear how they ask questions before they say they give an answer. And so you get to...
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It's a way of detaching the issue, detaching the problem, saying this is something for us both to look at, help unravel what am I missing? That phrase right there is very, very effective. If you can just ask them the question, what am I missing? They will always tell you. Because most likely it's not something that you're focused on. You're only focused on what you're saying.
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You're not focused on what they're hearing. Big, big difference.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, so let's say that this glass right here is all of my thoughts and knowledge, and your glass is all of your thoughts and knowledge, and not just what you think now. These are things that you've known throughout your entire life.
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So if I were to tell you something about I want to get your thoughts, maybe a political opinion or something that's a religious belief, I'm talking like deeply held beliefs that you grew up with, that's what's in that cup right there.
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When we go into a conversation with someone, often what we find is, especially if it's like a stranger, that what I say in our first conversation should convince you automatically that if I were to take all of my knowledge right here and I pour it in, there should be no problem. But what happens? When I start to pour into here, It overflows, meaning you have no room.
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You have no room for what I want to share whatsoever. It's going to just, it's overflow. Instead, what you have to find ways to ask questions and get really curious, meaning instead of me pushing my point, instead of saying, why do you believe that? Beginning your question with why. I start to get really curious about how did you come to believe that? Where did you learn that?
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When did this happen? Ways that I get to ask questions every day, like I do as a trial attorney, to find ways of getting to the issue of what's that deeply held belief? Where does it come from? Because only then, let's go ahead and pour yours into mine. There you go. Perfect. And so it's only then until you have space that I'm asking questions.
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Whenever I ask questions and you start to answer just a little bit more and then you answer just a little bit more to where you actually have space to care at all to what I'm going to tell you. Like you can't fill, I can't fill a glass that's already full with new thoughts. It's not going to happen. It's not until I can get you to pour it all out
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Really, I had a first-row view of how litigation happens and how to persuade and what are the levers in conversation that push that forward progress.
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till you'll ever be receptive and have room for what I want to share with you. So that's the key in difficult conversations that you have to find ways to get really curious about who's the person behind the words, because the person you see isn't the person you're talking to.
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I might be talking to Steven right now, but there are things that happen in your life that you believe that happened long before. I ever talked to you. And we have this hubris about us that we think that just because I told you you should believe something right at this moment, you're going to automatically change your mind. Minds don't get changed in one conversation.
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They happen over a year of a hundred conversations, a thousand conversations before anybody will ever be receptive to what you have to say.
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Yeah. So let's put it in terms of, I've had a client before. This is not, let me rephrase that. I had a deposition before where I was talking to a witness and he was a huge mountain of a man. His name is Bobby LaPre. I'm talking, Stephen, he was huge. His hands, I mean, he just looked, I looked like I was physically deficient in every way next to this guy.
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And it didn't matter what I asked him, Steven, he got mad at me. I mean, I was asking him basic things like, where were you born, okay? And where'd you go next and what happened next? And every time he would just get angrier and angrier. And eventually I had to ask him, I said, do you need a break? And he said, no, but I got something to say.
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And I thought he was about to just flip the table on me. He was just so furious. And I asked him, well, once he even told me, he said, you can cut all this buddy-buddy stuff. Except he didn't say stuff. And he said, you lawyers, you attorneys, you're the worst thing to happen in this government. You're the worst thing to happen.
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So you can go on and ask your stupid questions, but I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. Well? Well? Instead of taking that bait, which most people wanted to do, I asked him a question. I said, What am I missing? What are you struggling with right now in your life? What's been your biggest struggle? And they have to answer questions in a deposition.
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And what I learned was that he, big Bobby LaPre, this huge guy, had just put his mother in a nursing home, and he was the only one to take care of her. His dad had died. His brother was off. And he had been getting letters for months saying, about his mom and her home from lawyers, about foreclosing, making demands, debt collection, all these things that he just didn't understand.
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And so right then in that moment, I represented everything he knew about the law and lawyers and everything else. And so the person I saw was an aggressive, mad witness. The person I was talking to was a worried son. And we got to talk that out, and I helped him, and it ended wonderful. We ended up actually hugging.
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But every day you have these micro moments of the person you see is not the person you're talking to. The waitress that looks like she's being rude and dismissive is actually worried because she should have gotten off two hours ago. and her mom is still keeping her kids. Or you have somebody who, even in the workplace, who seem like they're a little bit short on their phone call with you.
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Somebody who looks like they're aggravated, actually their day began because he and his wife were going through a divorce and they stayed up all night arguing. Everybody has a struggle that you can't see. They're having a conversation in their head that you were not invited to.
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Where some people would teach you how to play an instrument, I tell you what chords to play. I give you the sheet music. And so once you know where you are, even in your voice, what matters are the actual words that you say.
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And so when you have the patience to try and understand the person behind the words, that's going to go a whole lot better for you, and they'll feel that. When you just want to accept them for what they look like, it's always different. If I were to tell you you were wrong about something, For me to change your mind, like right now, I most likely am not saying that Stephen's wrong.
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I'm saying your parents are wrong. I'm saying a grandparent's wrong. Something you grew up your whole life was wrong. A camp you went to growing up was all wrong. There's pieces and identities that have all combined into what you believe now. And we have this...
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Right. Knowing your trigger is one of the biggest ways to defend against that, to know your trigger. And it's funny how, just like your friend is telling you, so many things in everybody's life goes back to the playground. Like we can remember that thing that that one kid said, like right now, you can probably remember it. Somebody said in high school. Came straight to mind.
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And I can change two sentences, two words, and change your life just by what you decide to say next because where you've been in your whole life comes down to your communication and how you handle conflict. Where you left one relationship because of most likely some type of communication led you to another or where you are in your job or where you are in a podcast.
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And it's been years, years, but you remember it and it lives with you for that long. It was just simply what they had said in that moment that you've created that identity. That's a trigger. And if you tend to hit somebody with a trigger, it's different. Like you can always, it's very telling in the courtroom when, Somebody takes a level one conversation and they ratchet it up to a level 10.
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It's very disproportionate. And it tells you that there's a conversation happening in their head that you weren't invited to. It tells you that something else is going on. And when you have the patience and the discipline to find that person, rather than just fighting the surface, you will always have a deeper connection with that other person.
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Yeah.
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Well, I don't want to just say curious because I think that doesn't do it justice. One would be you have to delay what they said from when you respond. You have to add a lot of distance there because if you continue to engage and go, why can't you talk about this? What's wrong with you? That will only spiral it more. What they're going to hear is something is wrong with
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with me, something I am feeling is bad, when in that moment their body is fighting. Their body is going, I feel threatened. I feel anxious. I got to get out of here. And it's happening in microminutes. There's nothing you're going to be able to say that's going to help that trigger aside from you allowing them the space to have it.
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So that means you're going to find ways to approach conversations with that in mind. So one would be adding distance and not addressing it in that current conversation because they're triggered. You don't want to do that. You want to find it in the second conversation. So in the first one, you can easily end it with, hey, we can drop it, not a problem. We can talk about it later.
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Because problems happen, Stephen, when you try and push people away
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into having conversations on your timeline in other words when they're not ready ever had somebody come up to you and go hey i need to talk to you right now and and you're like oh you want to talk like that's the last thing you're you're trying to control my time this is not what i want to talk about right now and i'm not ready for this conversation and that that causes a big problem when somebody's trying to push their timeline on you um we can talk about ways to deal with that but it is
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That's what happens. And when you do it with somebody, going, what's wrong with you? Why can't you talk about this right now? You're just pushing them into a corner, and you're making them harder. I mean, they become hardened. They'll totally shut off from you. Then they're gone. Then they won't come back for several days, most likely. So when you start to push on them, things will go wrong.
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So that's when somebody's feeling triggered. That second conversation, that next conversation is the, I'd like, let's put a frame on it. I'd like to talk about what we began talking on on last Monday, and I'm not trying to solve anything. I just want to understand where you're coming from so that I can do better. Can we do that?
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It all comes down to what you've communicated and where you are in the conversation at all times.
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Like right there, that's going to be a much better way to set up and frame that difficult conversation rather than going, hey, so question for you, what's up with you? Because something's off, all right? That's the way that you're going to trigger them again. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
really attracted to comebacks of things. And I find that so funny. But it's a big part of communication for an important reason. When somebody is, let's say, belittling you or being rude or being disrespectful, there's kind of... I teach a little bit of a different method for each one. And how you handle it makes a very big difference.
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What we typically want to do when somebody is being rude to us or disrespectful, we want to throw it right back at their face. We want to ratchet it up because now we got to win. So, oh, you think I'm stupid? How about let me talk about how you're stupid. I mean, so we want to throw it back at the other person. All that does is ratchet it up.
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And then again, it becomes to who's going to apologize first. That kind of is where the game starts to lead. I was curious what you have on the book now.
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Yeah, that's probably my favorite.
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Yeah, it was also probably the most popular part of the book because it outlines a specific manual on how to handle these kinds of people. And I've developed it from these people specifically that I've had in depositions and cross-examinations in the courtroom, that very combative people that you find ways to
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You think that the power is in having a direct response back at them that's going to uppercut them. Smart people, people like you, Stephen, people like all your listeners, we have this desire that when somebody says something ugly, we want to send the zinger. We want to craft something so poetic that it's not going to hit them until the two days. They go, oh my gosh, she totally got me.
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And that's just not going to happen. But the true power is this kind of be like water mentality. It's instead of direct with them, you're just avoiding it. You're pushing it out of the way to where you're going. What you're saying is not threatening to me. And you do that in several different ways. This would be how I'd say how to handle people that are belittling you or giving you disrespect.
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One, you're going to add silence. Five to seven seconds of nothing. Two, you're going to ask them to say it again. Let's say it's insults. Insults are very direct. You're going to ask them to repeat it. And three, you're going to just let that sit. It's whatever they say. So for example, let's put it in terms of somebody who, let's give it an example.
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I think you could almost get to wherever you wanted to go if you were a 10 out of 10 communicator. How you get hired for jobs, let's say in your career, comes down almost exclusively to how you communicated right there in that interview. You know people who have a wonderful resume, right? but they have no ability to communicate that.
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And I can change two words and change your life just by what you decide to say next because what you say truly has the power to change everything. For example, I teach that you never want to win an argument. When you look to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship. That's your prize, congrats. So instead of seeing arguments as something to win, see them as something to unravel.
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This would be somebody who's giving you just a straight insult. Insults are different from disrespect or something being rude. Insults are very direct. Somebody saying, like, you're ugly, right? If I were to say, you're ugly, how would you respond? And you're not, by the way, but let's just say it.
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I'd laugh, but if it was like, it depends on the context, doesn't it? Yeah, I was like, oh, that's the shirt you went with? I guess, all right, okay. Whenever somebody is insulting you, we have this ability to get really mad and stew on it and get angry. But best way to do it is, let's say if you told me, you know, I really think you're an idiot, Jefferson.
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Give it a little bit of silence, and I would repeat, I'm an idiot, Jefferson. Now, it's going to put a spotlight right back on you. For you to confirm it, double down on it, or you're going to apologize. A lot of times in arguments, people take it back. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I got too in front of it. But if they double down on it, all you need to do is just thank them. Thank you.
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In other words, thank you for showing me who you are. Thank you for making sure that I'm not going to be with you anymore and this is who you are in my life. Very different from, let's say, with somebody who is belittling you, patronizing you, being condescending to you. This is where it gets fun. This is one of my favorite ones. So let's give this a test.
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Oh, Stephen, I see that you lost some weight. That's great, man. Good for you. How would you typically want to respond to that? Thank you. Yeah. Now, if I had said something that was a little bit more ugly, if it was like, oh, you finally lost some weight, I was wondering where you would. Yeah, that's good on you. Would you still say thank you again? No. Yeah, what would you say? That's rude.
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Yeah, exactly. You'd be like, oh, okay, that's a little offensive. So here's what I would want you to do. Add silence. We're going to have five to seven seconds of silence. And what that does is allow them, their words to fall. So it's going to, one, tell you that their words aren't threatening. You're adding that space in there for two reasons.
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One, to calm you down because you're going to be using that breath we talked about. Second of all, it allows them to hear their words back because it's like they walk their words out onto a plank and now they're all alone. So if you had said something ugly to me and you said something like, oh, well, Jefferson, great to be here. I guess we'll include you. I guess you just came.
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And without the ability to say anything, and say it at least effectively, then they're not going to get what they want. Or you have people who have been in those relationships where they've continually been stepped on, and they're wonderful people inside.
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It's something that made me feel like I wasn't wanted. And if I just let that hang for a little bit and then I ask a question of intent, these are what I call questions of intent, where it says, did you say that to upset me? Did you say that to hurt me? Or did you mean? If you begin your phrase with, did you mean? Did you mean for that to offend me? Did you mean for that to be rude?
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I do this a lot in email correspondence or texts. When somebody sends something to you and you feel like all of a sudden it's rude, but really if you just text, did you mean for that to sound short? It cures up almost instantly because it's not exactly – a lot of the time people don't mean it that way.
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But they're going to say something to you that is going to respond in—most likely they're going to say no. They're not going to know how to handle that. They're not going to do with that. If you can respond with, imagine being the person who would say that, or how did you want me to feel? Or ask them, how did you feel when you said that? How does it make you feel when you say that?
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You're going to say something ugly to me and I give it a big pause and I would respond, how does it make you feel when you say that to me? Or I'm surprised you said that out loud. Can you just tell them how it felt? Can you just say that was really hurtful? Yeah, you can, but that's giving them what they want. You're giving them the dopamine. That's what they wanted.
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They said that so that it would hurt. They're saying that because in their mind they wanted you to have that sense of pain. They wanted to grab that from you. They wanted that sense of control. So when you say, oh, that hurt. often that's exactly what they wanted in that moment. Now, it's going to take them some time to realize, oh, I was really a jerk about that.
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But in that moment, what they're wanting is that hit of dopamine from you. They're wanting that sense of control. So when you ask them a question, so if I were to say, that was rude, you're giving them what they want. That's a direct statement. But if I ask, did you say that to be rude? Did you mean for that to sound rude? Now they have to admit. That's very different.
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And if they were only with the right person, or if they could express how they wanted and what they needed at that time, their whole world would really change.
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Now they have to admit what their intent was with that. Now they have to say yes or no. Most of the time what they do is they kind of fumble over their words, and they go, I mean, what I meant to say was, or no, no, no, I'm sorry. What I meant was they don't want to hurt now. They're going to hurt their reputation. Now they put themselves way too far out on a ledge, and that's much harder. Yeah.
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Yeah, so when somebody says something to be ugly, what they're wanting is your emotion. They're saying, I'm unhappy. I'm only going to be satisfied if I can make you a little bit unhappy too. That's where I'm going to feel justified in this. I'm only going to feel justified when I've caused you pain. And when that happens...
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Your best defense against that is to be like a wet blanket, like be a soggy piece of bread that they can't do anything with. They can't move that. They can't control that. And what you're telling them in that moment is it's not going to be that fun for you. And that's the best way to handle a bully.
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A bully does something and you ask them, did you say that to hurt me or does it feel good for you to say that? Or how did you want me to respond when you said that? Let's say I came in and I go, oh, I guess we're, you know, I guess this is okay. Yeah, I guess we can talk in here. That's fine. Right? I mean, that's kind of condescending. Yeah, wouldn't you say? And
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If you had asked me in that moment, did you mean for that to sound rude? I'd be like, oh, no, goodness. Either I'm calling it out or you'd say, that's an odd thing to say out loud.
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I still think you can say it. I mean, it depends how you're going to put it. Yeah, it just depends.
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Yeah, context certainly matters on some level, but if it is a position of just, I think if there's such a huge power dynamic, something like that, if you're an intern and you're like, this guy's just having a bad day, I don't think I need, this is not the time for me to choose to try and have a way of making him feel bad. Or if it's like, okay, I'll accept that or I can do better with that.
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There's ways that you can try and diffuse the rudeness. Another that I really like to use, this would not be in that context, but that's below my standard for a response. Those are really bad arguments. I've had it where really, really bad arguments where you've used, that's below my standard for response, and they really don't know what to say after that.
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A lot of the times when I'm in depositions and somebody has a snarky comment towards me, I'll ask them, how did you want me to respond to that? They don't know. They don't really have an answer. They kind of just go, I mean, what I meant was, and they fix it.
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But the signal you're sending and the whole point of it all is to show them that the next time you choose to do this, it's not going to be fun. This is not what you're getting. That's the whole point of getting them to repeat a lot of the times. If I say, you know, I didn't catch that. Can you say that again? They can't bear to say that again.
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Yeah. So one time I had a case between two sisters. And it was about as fun as it sounds. Two older sisters fighting over a company. Their dad had passed away. I had one sister, another attorney, friend of mine had another sister. And my client was, let's say, very level-headed. She wanted to preserve the legacy of the family and the company. The other had very different life choices, let's say.
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and the other one wanted to sell the company. Well, they eventually came to almost an agreement on how they were going to
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Divvy up as by by the sister out We're at mediation and I knew that we knew that this other sister was there's no telling what she's gonna She's gonna say out of her mouth and I had already prepared my client for if she insults if she says anything ugly You're gonna ask her to say that again All right. So sure enough we get at the mediation table. We have a opening discussion and the
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sister, let's say the more fiery sister, goes on this tirade and says how everything's against her. She hates everything. And then she looks at her sister and says, and I've never loved you. You're dead to me anyway. Now that's Sister to sister, that's like terrible. It was super sad to watch. My client goes, I need you to say that again to me. And the other sister couldn't do it.
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She didn't say that again. Because it puts them out on a ledge where they can't really, they're not going to get the effect. It's not nearly as effective when you say it the second time.
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Yeah. Now they have to think, does this make sense for me to say again? Yeah. Because the first effect isn't there. It's not as powerful the first time when somebody gives you an insult and you say, you know, I didn't catch all that. I need you to say that again for me. Can you repeat that? Most of the time they won't. Because they know now I look bad.
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Because all you did with that question is put the spotlight right back on them. And they can't take that. So they don't know what to do with it.
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Yeah. Some people, yeah, let's put it in. Well, one, it's because you love the person, right? And she loves you. And so that's a little bit different. When you're dealing with people that are...
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everyday rude at the workplace, at the office, or maybe you are in a relationship with somebody who's a narcissist or somebody who is toxic or you have that bad relationship, I think it's perfectly okay to use these kind of sentences that are going to put somebody back.
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I mean, like even, let's say in my own relationship, okay, I certainly use, we both use, wife and I, the, did you mean for that to sound short? I've also said something and said something I didn't mean, and she's come back using my own things. No, that's not okay. She's using your own stuff against you. Oh, my gosh, yeah. And she'll say, you know, did you say that to upset me?
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And you're like – but at the same time, understand that when you say those kind of things – Some sense of it is giving grace to the other person, of not accepting that what they meant to say or what they said was what they meant to say. Because maybe I'm giving you the chance here to clarify. If I were to say, do you mean for that to sound rude?
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And you're like, oh, goodness, no, that's not what I meant. I'm giving you the grace of a second chance rather than just deciding to take it personal. We do that a lot on text message. Somebody sends you a text and all of a sudden you're feeling like, oh my gosh, this is the rudest thing ever. And then you find out they didn't give it with that kind of inflection or tone at all.
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us included, we have a work life and then we have a home life. And sometimes it's really easy to switch those up. Is never allow myself to be put in a conversation when I'm not ready. Especially important conversations. Like you don't want to wait until you have 10% of your battery left for 100% of a conversation.
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It's just not going to go well when you wait till you finally put the kids to bed and you're both drained and exhausted. Or You've had a really hard, stressful day, and you're mad. And that's the time when it's right before bed that you're going to decide to have the most important conversation between you two. It's never going to go well because you're aggravated. You're agitated.
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You're probably hungry. And so you don't set yourself up for failure. And that would be don't have a conversation when you're not ready. Ways to, and this goes same for your triggers, is part of that self-awareness is saying that out loud. Meaning, I'm going to begin my sentence with, I can tell. I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation.
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or you say something that's triggering to me, I can tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell that's upsetting me. When you say it out loud, when you claim it, you control it. Rather than me starting to act defensively and being defensive and saying defensive things, I say I can tell I'm getting defensive. Now I've said it out loud of that feeling. I'm not becoming the feeling. I've said it.
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And so there's a big, big difference in how – when you're in those difficult conversations, when you want to prepare yourself, you find ways to, one, have self-awareness of, I can tell when I'm ready and when I'm not ready. Second of all is if you know your triggers and you know what's going to
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upset you you try and like curb that as best you can when you're when you're not in the fight or flight you're not going to put yourself in the bad position so that that would be the biggest takeaway is don't you put don't put yourself in position to fail and i've also heard you say that when um you're being disrespected i mean this was the first of the three points you said a second ago is to create that silence again why is why does that matter and what do you mean by that
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You have a huge head start in this space. If you're somebody who you may know more than anybody else in that class, but if you don't have the ability to take up the room, if you don't have the ability to capture somebody's attention and hold it and communicate what you need, nobody will listen. And it is an unfair advantage.
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Yeah, so pauses, though they are the absence of words, they're not the absence of communication, meaning there's a difference in pauses between Somebody saying, I love you, and a really long pause before somebody says, I love you too. Or somebody, your girlfriend asks, where were you last night? And you take one second to respond instead of seven seconds to respond.
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They each say different things. So pauses are wonderful at getting the other person and yourself to fill in blanks. And when you're dealing with people who are, let's say, toxic or ugly or just not being nice, they will fill in that silence for you. And it does two things.
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It allows you, with the breath and the pause, to make sure you keep the analytical side, pushing the emotion down, you're not getting flooded. Next, it's also doing the same thing for them. When I add silence, I'm making you almost repeat your words back in your head. And often you've been in those arguments where somebody already apologizes for what they said without you having to say anything.
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You've seen it too on a text. Somebody says something ugly in a text and you don't respond for a few hours. Most often they will reply back, at least in my world, they'll say, like, I shouldn't have said that, or they'll try and reframe it or they'll edit the text. Now you have the benefit of hindsight when, oh, that didn't sound good, or they'll twist their word again to fix it.
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So like, for example, I see this a lot with liars, people who lie on the stand. And in litigation, you always have people lie, even in deposition. It's just part of it. You don't really get surprised by it. But silence is the number one killer of liars because they have conversations in their head for you. So if you were going to tell me a lie, for example,
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And instead of me going, that's not true. That's not true. And then you're going to, it's like you'd like that. Okay, good. They're engaged. Now I can start to manipulate the narrative and you'll tell a lie and then it forces me to try and fix it. No, no, no, that's not true. Remember you did this and you did this and you're trying to get around. And that's exactly what the liar is wanting.
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The more engaged, the more conversation, the more believable it feels to you. So then you start to doubt yourself like, oh, maybe they did. And silence just destroys them. So if you were to tell me a lie and I waited five to seven seconds and I repeated the question to you, I repeated your answer.
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Let's say I know that you were at the store last night and you're trying to lie to me and say, I was home last night. And let's say I think you weren't up to no good at the store. And you go, Jefferson, I was at the store last night.
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I'm going to come back to this conversation in a bit. Okay. Right? So all of a sudden, the liar's like, oh, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Like, oh, now you're thinking about it. Now you're thinking about it. You know I was at the strip club.
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It's like, I know you weren't where you say. So if you can say, you add in time, like, I'll come back to this conversation. Or if I were to say something feels off. They don't like that. Liars don't like that at all because they want you engaged. They want more conversation. So when you slow it down and you go, it's not even saying, I don't believe you. Don't say that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That's getting them, that's more engaged in conversation. But when you slow it down and get quieter of, I'm thinking. I'm just thinking. Liars will start to have the conversation in their head with you. They'll start to say things like, I mean, what do you, I mean, what do you, let's put myself in your position.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If you said you're at the store and I didn't really believe you, you'd be like, I mean, where do you think I was? I mean, why would I be there? Like they start to try and get into your head so that they can fix it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'll try to twist the narrative to place the pieces in a way of they're not going to fill in every piece of the puzzle, the jigsaw puzzle, but just enough that hopefully you get the rest of the picture. But silence, pauses, that's where your real power is because they can't do anything with it and it shows that you're the one in control and they're the ones that are not.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
The outcomes are you're going to start to be negative on yourself. You're going to start to talk to yourself in very negative ways. And really, it's a hopeless feeling. You're going to run into relationships where you're running into the same problem. You're going to go into jobs where you start to run into the same problem. It's almost cyclical.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You're wanting more. Give me a conversation. We need conversation. I need it now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
No? Oh, no, and they get in their head about it. But it's that same concept we talked about of people who tell the truth – they have all the patience in the world. If you really were at the store and I was like, I need to think about this for a minute, you'd be like, okay. It wouldn't bother you because those that have told the truth, they have nothing to hide.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If you need to think on it, something feels off, okay, well, I'm here to talk about it, but that's where I was.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, it's a relief. It's a confidence of going, I know exactly where I am. It's that inner confidence we talked about at the very beginning. But the people who don't tell the truth... I mean, if I had a dollar for every time I've seen it or I've asked somebody the question back, they said – usually it's texting while they drive. I never text. I never text when I drive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Let's say I asked somebody – you asked me the question, you know – Here, we'll run it through. So ask me the question, were you texting while you were driving that day? Were you texting while you were driving that day? No, I never text. Never text when I drive. Now notice I said a big word. I said never. Never is an extreme. Extremes are a dead giveaway that they're usually not telling the truth.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Everybody texts when they drive at some point in time, even in your car. Never and always or never. It's always or never true. So that's a big one. Second of all, I answered really quickly. I didn't breathe and really think about it and try and actually show you that I was trying to remember in time, give you a really immediate response.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Um, what you're going to do, we're going to replay it again. I'm going to say same exact thing. And I'm going to ask you to give me about five seconds of time. And then I want you to repeat what I said slower. Cool. So ask me if I was, if I was texting while I was driving that day. Were you texting while you were driving that day? No, no, never. I never text when I drive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You never text when you drive. Even that, I didn't even like that. So what they'll do most often is they'll even go, well, I mean, sometimes I do. Because now you just hinge on that word never. So now they know, oh, that's a risk word. And they'll kind of come out of it and go, I mean, sometimes I do. I mean, maybe, but hardly ever, hardly ever.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When that happens, what you typically want to do is give them an out. Now they've... They've put themselves into a corner and now they're looking for an out. A way to do that is go, if you were texting, it's okay.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
where you're not being able to say what you need to say. That makes a huge difference when you say, look, I'm not going to allow myself to be treated this way anymore.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, I have 12 jurors that are watching every bit of me as soon as I come into the courtroom. I mean, oh, yeah, you have the judge, you have the bailiff, you have a court reporter, you have people in the back, and you have two benches, you have attorneys, probably lots of attorneys, they're paralegals, you have your clients, and 12 jurors who all they do is watch you like a hawk.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So the good attorneys... are pretty emotionless when they hear, are almost near emotionless when they hear bad information.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When you don't even know how to voice your own boundaries or enforce those boundaries or things of how you want and where you want to go in your life, what you're going to find is you're just going to be unhappier more often and more unsatisfied. And that's a really hopeless feeling.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly. A client says, a witness says something that hurts their case and they just keep on writing or they just kind of sit back and reading. The really bad attorneys go. Start flapping. Exactly. Because all it is, you're telling the jurors, the jurors go, oh, they said something that hurts their case. Same thing with objecting. Bad attorneys object a lot.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Objection, Your Honor, that's already been ruled on. There's all kinds of lots of objections in the world of evidence. But if a juror says, they're watching, oh, they're hiding something from me. They don't want me to learn this information. Objection, Your Honor, that's irrelevant. Objection, Your Honor, that's hearsay. Oh, there's something that's happened that they don't want me to hear.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Why would they do that unless it hurt their case? But the good attorneys object maybe one or two times, and they do it in a way that encourages the discussion a little bit more of almost explaining it. So, yeah, you always have to watch your body language and how something is affecting you or not. Like if you have a...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Sometimes you'll see attorneys go up to the bench and have a quiet little meeting with the judge. And the attorney who looks defeated because they feel like they lost, all the jurors think is, oh, they must have not gotten what they wanted. Oh, something's wrong. It gets in their head. Same thing. I mean, jurors are, I mean, they're just people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But we have a sixth sense about us that we can sense things about if someone is telling the truth or not. At the end of trials, most people don't know this, we get to talk to the jurors. You get to ask them questions if they want. But you can, after the trial's done, I can go up, if you're a juror, I can go up and ask you, how'd you think of the trial? What was your favorite piece of evidence?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
What, you know, what really made the decision for you? And you're amazed at what you thought was a huge piece of evidence they didn't even care about. It was like this one little thing. You're like, you thought about that? I had it once where the other attorney during, they call it voir dire. In the west side of the world, we call it a voir dire in the south.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It means you're asking questions of the jurors. And one attorney, it was just a really hot room, but we learned that afterwards she didn't really like that attorney at the end of the jury because while he was talking, he was sweating a whole lot, and it made him look really nervous. And so she didn't think that he was really believed in his case. So you find like these little bitty things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You're like, how does that happen? But it's seriously that critical. Someone thinks that a witness on the stand is not really being, not really crying. They're trying to put on an act. Oh, the jury will hang them. The jury will just absolutely destroy their case if they think somebody is putting on a show.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, were you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, I mean, a lot of, I wouldn't even say famous ones because I don't, even the famous ones to me aren't that great. It's just because of the high profile of the clients involved that made it famous. But if you take the Johnny Depp case, most other attorneys will watch that and go, that wasn't that great.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It was just juicy because it was drama, and some of the witnesses were hilarious, and it was just kind of funny. But people got to see what real trial is like. But there's some things of like an attorney objecting to hearsay to his own question, like things that you go, us attorneys go, what are you doing?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
No.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So I wouldn't even say the famous trials, but ones, let's say, that I think of all the time that I grew up
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
watching is it here it was a case involving a an old janitor who had gotten in an accident and they were trying to prove that he didn't remember the events and the other side was trying to prove they they were right they're trying to prove that the other guy was wrong and when the other attorney came up gave the closing argument He did such a good job of ramping up the dynamics of his voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, they come to me and they watch my videos not to fix or learn from what happened in the last conversation. They're coming to me because they want to know how to handle the next conversation. And what I do is I give them these snippets, the same way I would in an opening argument or a closing argument. I go with three main points.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So you hear that a lot with preachers and pastors. Sometimes their highs are really high and their lows are really low. And so he did this wonderful thing of the way he would smile at the jury and almost show them that, hey, you can believe them if you'd like, but I'm going to tell you the truth.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
and he did this such a way that he could convince someone the way he was talking that you just go, I just got to listen to this guy. I want to hear all that he had to say. He would do it, and he would make his words pause and hang on every single word. I don't remember. I was a kid.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But the reason I share it is because it was so fundamental to me at the time going, wow, okay, this is how you tell a story. This is how you persuade. Because I'm getting to watch not just the attorney. I'm getting to watch the jurors. I'm getting to watch what they're appreciating and what matters to them. And that was really pivotal for me to see those kind of dynamics at play.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly. It's the ability to use your voice. Vanessa and Vin do wonderful jobs at this. How do you play the instrument of your voice? What I encourage... And what I like to teach is how do you persuade even with vulnerability? So let's say, for example, in this moment, you're an attorney and I'm an attorney. All right, we're against each other. We each have a client.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And we're friends in real life, but this is business. And, you know, I got to represent my client. And Here we go. We have a juror in front of us, a jury in front of us. And let's say that I go up and I say, ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you what you're going to find in this case is the other side is just totally wrong. Everything that my client's done has been 100% correct.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They followed the law. They followed the rules. They followed every single policy. And what they're demanding from us is just absolutely insane. You're going to find at the end of this case, with all the evidence, I'm going to ask you to file for my client. All right? That's what I just said. Now, you go up there. Same jury.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
and you go, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to tell you right now, my clients could have done better. They made a few mistakes. There are going to be things that you're going to see that they follow every rule the best that they can, and people are people. And why we're here is because what they're asking of you is simply unreasonable, and it's just not fair.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And we're only going to ask you to find what's fair. So at the end of this case, we're going to ask that you find the favor of my clients. Now, Anybody who's listening right now, who do you think that they are naturally going to be more drawn towards? The case for imperfection, vulnerability, and fairness. You got it. They're going to hear me, my case of 100% perfectness, and go, that's not real.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That's not real. We know that experience. Everybody has vulnerabilities. Everybody could have done something better. And so they're going to naturally gravitate and go, you, your case, you're the truth tellers. And once you establish yourself as the truth teller in the conversation, it is a hard position to leave from.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Once you establish, like especially judges, once a judge knows that you give him the case law, even when it's against you, he will believe you for the rest of all time for all your cases. Because they know that you follow the law, you tell the truth. So it's much easier when you think.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I try to condense a whole lot of information into something that has very little. So you take what would be 40 pages and you turn it into two sentences and you turn that into one sentence. You turn to seven words. And what I do is I give them the sense of, hey, I can do that. I can do that. All I have to do is switch this word.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, and that's perfectly said. And even when, let's say I was giving a closing argument, and let's say I was defending a company, and it was always better if I said, now, I believe, after hearing the evidence, you should give their client this. I agree with that. They deserve this. But it shouldn't be this number. You see how all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, well, I can agree with that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Way different if I said they don't deserve a penny. Very, very different. Now, in everyday conversation, it's that same way. If I stand by, I did nothing wrong. I couldn't have said it any differently. Everything I said was perfect. I'm right is the principle of it. Whenever you always have, there's no way I could have said that differently. You're giving the same exact vibes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But if I came to you and began that conversation with, I could have said that better. You know what happens? The other person goes, yeah, I could have said that better too. It's really disalming. It's so better. I could have done better. Like that is a magic phrase. I've seen so many relationships get through conflict by using the phrase, I could have done better.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
By leading with that right there, ultimate vulnerability, and the other person goes, yeah, I could have done better too. Rarely do they say, yeah, you could have. They don't. They really don't. They almost always take that down because it's much more It just brings down their defensiveness.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, I can see the impact of just flipping one little word or reversing the way I'm giving that sentence. And it creates a very different outcome every time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. The secret to dealing with someone you don't like, you treat them like they do. You treat them like they do like you and that you do like them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly. Well, you've done harder things in life. Yeah, your body does. But let's put some parameters around it. One, you want to limit that amount of contact. If you're around them the whole day, a whole lot harder. If you can be in front of them for two, three minutes, easy. Second of all is be mindful of who's around you because people are watching.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And it's that, I forget how the phrase goes, but if you argue with a fool, onlookers don't know the difference. Yeah. Yeah, so if you all of a sudden act rude to someone and they deserved it because of what they did two weeks ago, somebody in the room, they're not going to blame that other person. They're going to put it on you. So don't give someone a reason to affect your integrity.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So when you just act like they do, treat them like they like you, your life will go better because it'll make you feel better. One, it'll make you feel like the better person. Two, let's say that other person is ambivalent on you. If you show that you don't like them, all you're doing is just confirming to them, this person hates me, and you know what? I don't like them either.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's just reinforcing that feeling. Now they're sure to not like you. But when you don't give them an enemy, there's nothing they can do. That's what happens in a lot of conversations, arguments. People are looking for an enemy. They're wanting someone to justify that behavior. And when you don't give it to them, it's very frustrating.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I mean, in trial litigation, one of the most effective things you can do is just kill someone with kindness. Whenever you're not ugly or rude, you don't give them somebody to be the villain because that's what they want. That's how they want to justify their bad behavior of how they're treating you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And when you just act like you do like them, you limit the amount of time or you're very objective and very neutral of like, hey, I'm here to talk with you about this and then I'll be on my way. Like as long as you can be very direct and you're not giving those snide comments. If somebody asks what time it is and you go, I mean, you would know if you had a watch. Like that's what you want to do.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And just instead of giving them the time, go about your day. Don't give somebody an excuse to lower your integrity.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So often we think of first impressions versus the next conversation. So you and I meet the first time or you meet your date or somebody you first job interview. And everything's great. Everybody has their best face on. Everything's wonderful. But it's typically that next conversation where something's different.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
One would be don't ask questions that elicit a one-word response. These are what they call closed-ended questions. You want these for cross-examination. Because on cross-examination, I just want yes or no questions. Did you go to the store? Yes. No. When I'm on direct examination, I want to open you up to discussion. I want you to talk more.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So what you do is you take advantage of asking questions that open you up. Ask open-ended questions. These are questions that begin with how or what or when or where. Instead of, like, did you go to the store? The same effect would be, did you have a good weekend? I'm only limiting you to a yes or a no.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You want to have a conversational goal really for any conversation that you're going to have. Now, that's different if you're in your hoodie and sweatpants with your friend watching a movie. You don't have to have a conversational goal.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm saying if you're a one-on-one with somebody at work, it's not a bad idea if you go into their office, you have a goal for where is the conversation going to end because otherwise it spins anxiety in the other person. Like if somebody texts you and says, we need to talk, period, you're like, I automatically think it's the worst. It's like, oh, something's terrible. We're breaking up.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Something's terrible. Something's on fire. It's the worst because it's that anxiety, that trigger of the unknown. So instead, you always want to have a conversational goal. Like the frame we talked about, you're telling them how you want the conversation to end. Same kind of thing with small talk.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But when it's much easier when you set a goal that's very low, like instead of saying, I want them to be so impressed with me, they don't know what to do. What's more impressive is when you're curious about the other person. I want to make sure that I ask at least three questions of this person and see what they have to say. That's a great goal.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
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I want to make sure that my goal is understanding where they're coming from just a little bit more. So with small talk, people love to tell them how they got there. People love to talk about themselves. Everybody knows that. One question to ask is how they got to the present moment. For example, how did you learn that? Where did you come across this? How did you get in where you are today?
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And people are like, oh, well, let me kind of talk about myself for a minute. And people love it because they get to tell a story. Very different if I said, hey, what'd you do this weekend? It was good. Stay at home. There's no story element to that. There's nothing you can do with that. But if you get them to talk about a story of what led them to their present moment, much better.
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Another tip is you get to talk to them about things that are happening in the future rather than looking at the past. The past is really not... that great for people because they feel like it's boring. They don't feel like the past of something is that remarkable. But they typically find things that they will look forward to in the conversation. What are you looking forward to doing this weekend?
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You get to learn if the first impression is the lasting impression, if somebody was really who you thought that they were. You put it in terms of an everyday argument, let's say with a spouse. Mm-hmm. Or friend, you have friction, that friction ignites and then you start to both yell at each other and then you throw insults at each other and everything gets louder and louder and louder.
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What are you excited about? What's coming up for you? They'll find things that go kind of like, oh, well, I'm kind of excited about this Y and Z. But if you ask about what's happened in the past, they kind of have this like, ah, you know, I just, it's in the past.
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Oh, that's hard. And there's a lot, I mean, it is very cliche, but I'm a huge Abraham Lincoln nerd. Why? Because of the way he was able to get people in his circle in the most unaggressive, unassuming way. So he, when he ran as a nominee for the Republican Party convention, he was a no-name. I mean, he was pretty much a no-name. He had run for Congress a few times, but he was not the
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And if you can just ask them the question, what am I missing? I promise you, that is the most effective tool that you can use for a difficult conversation.
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clear winner. All the other people that were involved were the main frontrunners, the main frontrunners, the people that were big out, William Seward, you had McClellan, you had Stanton, all these guys that deserved the spot to be the Republican Party nominee at that time. And lo and behold, a lot of different reasons, Lincoln won.
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Now, what he did was as soon as he won nomination for president, he turned around and invited those men into his cabinet. Now, that is like, that would be like President Trump turning around and inviting everybody who ran against him, who criticized him for the last election cycle and saying, be on my cabinet.
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That's like any president saying, oh, all you opponents who said why I shouldn't be me and why I should lose, come be part of my cabinet. And it went from them hating him at the beginning of saying he's so unqualified, trying to hurt him, hurt his reputation, to like sobbing at his funeral. Like they couldn't even imagine what the world was going to be like without him.
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And he did it so well in how he brought people in. Doris, I think it's Kyme. Goodwin has a wonderful book called Team of Rivals. I love it. And it just goes into all the details of each of these personalities and how he dealt with them, how somebody even went out to the newspaper and was trying, within his own cabinet, trying to cause problems. He didn't even address it with him.
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Instead, he brought him in even closer, made him feel important, give him more jobs. like ways of just handling the dynamics, this very emotional intelligence. And so he was wonderful at telling stories. I mean, that was his main thing. People just love to listen to the guy.
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And so I just, I think that is such a beautiful portrayal of how to handle life that some of your enemies, all you need to do is just bring them a little bit closer and understand them a little bit more. You're going to find you have a much better life.
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of these wonderful little proverbs about how it's the power of the tongue. I mean, it is to control who you are, you control the power of the tongue. And so it is so fascinating how what we say really is tied to just our entire essence, who comes into a room. I mean, it's what you say is who you are. Like for the vast majority of your life, like what comes out of your mouth is...
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Eventually somebody crosses the line and says something they don't mean and it dies. You go, forget this, I'm out of here, gone, they leave. Then there's a next conversation, and that one sounds a lot different than the first one. It sounds a lot quieter, a lot slower. People say, what I meant to say was, or, yeah, I shouldn't have said that. My intent was, then they start to clarify.
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controls what they think of you, controls your reputation, controls where you're going to go. It's simply what you say next. You can't call yourself a kind person if you don't use kind words. It's really what you say when you go, I don't really like that person. What you really mean is they say things that I don't like.
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And so it's just the power of what we say that truly can change everything about your life. It's a big deal. Yeah, it is. It's a big calling. It's a really big calling. And I think that those who invest in their words, invest in using better words, will have a better life. They'll find that they'll have more peace. They'll have more control. They'll have more confidence.
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And it's not something they can buy on Amazon. It's not something that they can just get. It is simply by what they choose to come out of their mouth.
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Yeah, so let's say for people who listen to this podcast, read my book, there are going to be themes that naturally come out to them that speak to them more than others or versus another person. So it's not like it's linear, like all of a sudden you need to just do this one, two step and then you're done.
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There are going to be certain elements of our conversation that are going to appeal to somebody. What they need to do is grab onto that and study that, and they're going to find ways to focus and get a discipline on that. So let's just focus on one rule that they want to improve. Don't try and prove your entire everything. Just try and prove one thing.
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So if you have a habit of, let's say, adding adverbs to every sentence, essentially, basically, literally, just, so, very, and you have all this fluff in your emails, And you don't want to do that. Well, you're going to catch yourself to do that. I have an AI where that's what I do. So somebody can put in a sentence and say, nope, remove all this stuff.
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And so little bitty things like that where they can train themselves to eliminate the fluff. Same thing with maybe they find themselves over apologizing. Just focus on that and do one little bit at a time. And I promise you, just even the next sentence that they choose will be better than what they could have put out.
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Then they start to apologize. Then they refrain. Oh, I can see how you take it that way. No, no, no. What I meant was, What they care about in the next conversation is always much different than what they focused on in the first conversation. So the key is, how do you take that next conversation and get it there to be the first one?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is all about how to say no, especially let's put it in a context of somebody invited you to anything. Let's say somebody invited you to grab a cup of coffee. Yeah. All right. Let's put it in terms of, that's what this graph is. So the graph says when you have the chance to say no or yes to something and you decide not to say no, instead you go, oh, maybe.
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And then it just lives in your head for the next week until they ask again. You're like, ah, I just put it off. But if you say no when you need to say no, then it doesn't live in your head rent-free. So let's put it in terms of, let's say you and I work at the same place. Yeah. And I ask you for, hey, Steven, let's go grab a cup of coffee at this new place that I saw. And you don't.
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You're like, look. You're thinking in your head. You're like, look, Jefferson, you're nice, you know, but we're not friend friends. We're just work guys. You know, I like you at work, but you're not that cool. Like, I don't want to go have coffee with you. That's what you're thinking in your head. And besides, you're so busy, you've got too many things to do. And you need to say no.
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And instead you go, oh, man, you know, maybe, maybe. It just depends. I'll let you know. I'm like, oh, okay. And then I'm waiting the whole day to hear from you. And now in your head you're like, how do I tell him I don't want to do this? How do I tell him? And now you're just thinking about it and you're just wasting your emotional energy. And instead of saying no when you needed to say no.
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Well, if that's real. But if it's not real. Yeah, well, that's a problem.
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Oh, because one, there's always a chance that they could find out. Two, it's just not genuine. It's not sincere. You owe it to yourself to be a truth teller.
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Yeah, exactly. Actually, no, no, I don't. No, thanks. Pass. Hard pass. So here's where the mistake happens, all right, is when it's that feeling of, I don't want to disappoint them. I don't want them to not like me. That's what we want. That's what really it is. I don't want them to not like me. I still want them to like me.
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The mistake happens when you go, oh, man, that sounds so great and wonderful. I'd love to, but I can't. I have a full day of meetings. And that's all you leave it at right there, okay? Problem with that, aside from it just being not true, whatever. To put it as, hey, man, I'd love to, but... The word but has a magic of erasing everything that happened before.
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If I were like, look, I love you, but, and I have to say something else. Oh, I think it was great. Yeah, I mean, I think being on your podcast was wonderful. But it just takes away, it feels less than what you said. So instead, we want to start with the gratitude. Oh, thank you so much. That sounds wonderful.
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i can't that's what we wanted is like a soft landing uh reverse it start with the no then end uh with the gratitude so it would be if somebody said hey can you come to dinner whatever on i know you're in austin i can't thank you so much for inviting me i i i'd love to meet you or see you the the next time around And if you can, add some kindness. I've heard that place is awesome.
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Hope it's a great time. Like, same thing if you need to tell me no to having coffee. I can't. Or I have bad news. I can't. Let me know how it goes. Like, I'm sure it's going to be great. I've heard wonderful things about it. Let me know how it is. It's much easier if you tell them that you can't up front.
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Have you ever had somebody tell you no to an invitation and they're like, in a text, they're going, oh my gosh, thank you so much. I've just been so busy and I've had to go feed my cat and it's just been so stressful lately. And I might be able to go. I'll let you know if I can. And if anything changes, I'll definitely let you know. You're like, if you don't want to go, just tell me no.
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And it's that kind of feeling. We don't have the words though.
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Yeah. So what you want to do is, like we said, instead of beginning with, oh, I'd love to. That sounds terrific. But I've got so much to do, and I can't do this. They're like, oh, OK. Instead of that, just flip it and say, I can't make it this go around. Thank you so much for inviting me. I look forward to hopefully seeing you soon or the next time.
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So when you're in an argument with somebody, what happens automatically is your fight or flight starts to take over, even in a little argument, especially even in the small ones. If I disagree with your opinion, your fight or flight kicks in because your body is saying, hey, I'm being undermined. Your mind is telling you, hey, I didn't like that.
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Or if you can't go to wherever they're wanting to go, you can say, I got bad news. I'm not going to be able to make that happen. Thank you so much for thinking of me, or I appreciate you inviting me. I hope it's a wonderful time. And you don't even need to give them a reason. No reason. No, no, no.
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That's where you make a mistake, is when you give them a reason, you start to have to feel like you have to justify. Because you're very subjective. We're all subjective in our head of, ah, that's not a good enough excuse. I have to give something that is worthy enough of the excuse that I'm not going to be able to make it.
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Yeah, there it is. I think that's perfect. There's nothing wrong with saying because I'm in the Middle East. It's when it's more like that bar scenario. You don't have anywhere else to go. You don't want to.
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Uh-uh. No, no, no. Because there's nothing to apologize for. You haven't done anything wrong. Save your apologies for when you said something you should not have done. You've made an actual mistake. And I'm not terribly fucking sorry.
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You're very thankful. You're very thankful about it. You're not sorry at all. So instead of the so terribly sorry or unfortunately, it's I can't make it work. You see how that's – when I say I can't make it work, I'm signaling to you that I have other things going on and I cannot fit it in. It's not that you're not a priority. I just can't make it work.
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The secret to dealing with someone you don't like is to... And then could you explain to me this image here? So this is all about how to say no.
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And so anytime you get that out front and then follow it up with the gratitude, I appreciate you, thank you, so kind of you for thinking of me, and then add on a little bit, like just a sprig of kindness. I know it's going to be a wonderful time. Perfect. I mean, that's all you need right there. Instead of going, I need to respond to that email.
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And then you're like two weeks later, you're like, I got to respond to that email. And you just get yourself worked up.
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Yeah, so it looks like it's verbal fillers.
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What he's saying is different from what I'm saying. You know what? We're going to think of some other things. It's going to put that down. Immediately what I want to do is say something that is going to fight. In other words, I'm going to hurt you. I want to say something that's going to cut you. I want to say something that is hurtful. Or we run from it.
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Right. If you're on a stage, if you're giving a presentation, don't use them. Yeah, that's a real easy rule. In casual conversation, who cares? The only thing that makes this different is because it gets posted and people are going to pay attention to every single word that you say and they're going to want to put that up.
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everybody has some kind of verbal fillers if they don't they've been trained on it that's all that can almost be guaranteed they've had some kind of media training if they don't use any verbal fillers because verbal fillers are very common but if you want to be an impactful speaker at a presentation you don't want to have the um the ah the like um okay add okay right after the sentence like well i'll see different
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It's a habit for very new attorneys to begin to ask a question of a witness and say okay right afterwards. They'll ask, so do you see the red car? Just give an answer. Yes. Okay. And then they'll write it, and then they'll ask another question. But the record, so everything's transcribed by a court reporter, has okay, okay, okay throughout it. And so what a lot of...
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Senior partners will give the transcript to the junior partner and say, just review it, see what your verbal fillers are and all of that stuff. So it's a great way to train. But yeah, verbal fillers, you don't want to make a habit of them. They happen. There's nothing wrong with saying like or saying nothing on its face wrong with it. It just has a way of cluttering up your sentences.
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If I was going to say, yeah, so anyway, I mean, and you can totally tell me if I'm way off base here, but like so essentially I was thinking and it literally does not matter. Like you see how we kind of like dip in and out and we just like get to the point?
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What they say, what people choose to say has a ripple effect that will reach far more than they ever thought it possibly could. It'll affect people that they don't even know exist, how they talk to people. What you say today It affects how people think of you. It affects where you go in your career. It affects how your children will talk to their children.
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It affects how other people will talk to their kids without you even knowing it. I mean, an example of that is the playground, like we talked about. Everybody has a memory of somebody's words. It was probably very simple. The most simple words often are the most powerful. The small ones, they call eyeglasses, big, huge glasses. And I remember being called four eyes. I was crushed.
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You ever had somebody been on the phone and go, you know, I'm over this, and they hang up?
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I was crushed being called four eyes. If you called me that today, I'd be like, so? But at eight years old, something, oh, I have four eyes. Something is wrong with me. Remember, that being something that was very important. Words will last for a very, very long time. And the people that are in your life will say something to you, and you will remember it forever.
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People in high school, you think, oh, everybody forgets about high school. No, they don't. You go to law school, everybody forgets. No, they don't. They remember exactly what you said and who you were. And even if it's the person across the register or the person taking your order at the cafe, How you talk to them affects how they talk to their loved ones when they go home.
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Or they go, I'm out of here. You know what? Forget this. And they go and slam the door. That's their flight. They're leaving. I feel threatened in this current moment by this conflict, by this differing view, so I need to get out of it. When you decide to say it with control, you make sure that that doesn't happen. And it all begins with your breath. All right, that's the key.
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If you've made their day difficult, they're going to make sure that they reflect that in some sense, or it's going to put them in a bad mood. So what you say truly has the power to change everything. So it's the question and challenge of what will you choose to say with yours?
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Oh, all the day. I mean, I constantly, you want your kid to be the best of whatever. You want to try and raise a wonderful human. So you're very conscious of what you say to them because they soak it all up. I find that the best thing that anybody can do as a new parent is to be a safe space for their kids in communication.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
One of the most terrifying thoughts, anybody who's listening who is a parent, is that your kid is not going to come to you in their time of need. So they're going to be in high school and they're not going to come to you with the problems. They're going to go run and tell somebody else. They're going to go deal with it in other ways that are not constructive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Because you have established a pattern of making them afraid to come to you and putting them down in a sense that they are afraid to come to you with their struggles. Arguments are a window into another person's struggle, and kids are no exception. And the way to think about that is to say things like, thank you for coming to me with this. I acknowledge you could have talked to someone else.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm glad you talked to me. When you can show them that you're inviting them into that conversation, they're going to be more receptive to coming to you again. I mean, that's the main takeaway is what you say to your kids, they will repeat. And how you say it to their kids, they're going to repeat. Like you most likely, you saw your parents argue a certain way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And then I saw my parents argue a certain way, and that becomes our default of how we think other people should argue. Have you ever been in those relationships where somebody, the other person wants you to fight with them? Yeah. And they're like, I don't feel like you care unless we're yelling. I don't feel like you care unless it's almost to this very toxic, horrible level.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And only then do I feel like I want you to argue with me. I want to feel like you're in it. That's what they grew up with. That's all they know. So to them, that is the default. And so it's the choice of how do you want to show conflict to the generations that leave after you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I hope people will find that their words truly have power, that it's within reach, that they will no longer have this sense of hopelessness of, I never know what to say, or I never feel like myself. I always feel like I people please. I always feel like I say less or I feel less. It's the sense of, I can teach you how to argue less and talk more by simply changing what you decide to say next.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And I believe that all the world needs is one better conversation at a time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So what I teach every one of my clients is let your breath be the first word that you say. So we'll run through it right now. That's cool. All right, so let's do an exaggerated one. And what this is called, and it takes advantage of, is a physiological sigh. So what we're going to do is two seconds in through the nose. One more at the top, and then go .
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Let's see. I'm 36. Go back in time to when I was 16. I would probably tell him, you're doing a good job. Just have a real heart to heart of, you don't have to always just keep chasing for what's next. Just be real happy in the present moment. I think that started at an early age of always wanting to Like anything, you want to be the best. You want to push yourself. You want to do that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And sometimes I, as being the oldest child and the old soul, I don't think I allowed myself to feel the freedom sometimes of childhood. I just grew up really quickly. Took a lot of independence and responsibility on myself at a really early age. I was 16. I was taking all of my kids, all of my siblings to school.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And while I was going, I'm going over spelling words with my youngest brother and dropping him off at first grade. So... And I loved it. I have wonderful parents. I just wanted that responsibility. And I think that flew into college of not enjoying things and saying no to things that could have been really awesome experiences because I felt like I just needed to always be a straight arrow.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
A little bit. I think I have because I see it in my kids. And my son's seven, my daughter's five. And I can already tell my son is just like me, which is cool and scary. And so I try, I find myself when I'm talking to him, it's like I'm talking to myself. And there's a part of it that's very healing. When I can tell him of, look, even if you, he just did coach pitch.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm like, hey, look, if you strike out, I love you just the same. You're good. Don't worry about it. Like, hey, we'll keep practicing. Like just little bitty moments where I didn't allow for myself. I didn't, I just kept pushing and pushing. And I don't think I
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
ever stopped to to do that so seeing that with my son is very healing in that way where I feel like I I kind of I'm talking to myself just as much as I'm talking to him Jefferson Fisher if I want to hear more from you by the book where else can I find you Yeah, so you can find me on social media, Jefferson Fisher, Instagram, jeffersonfisher.com slash book for the book.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, you can just search Jefferson Fisher on social media and I'll be around.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, okay, how do you feel after you do that?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, all right, cool. So what we're gonna do is get a shortcut to that exact result. This time, we're gonna do it, same thing, but don't make the noise. One more at the top. Through the mouth again. Now, instead of the mouth, only through the nose, ready? Now that was a, now we did that almost a little, that was very intentional.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Start with... Then end with... Really?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So let's do it again, but give it a haircut as if like you don't even, you're not even gonna get me to notice. Ready? That right there. Now that is your go-to. Whenever somebody is telling you something that you disagree with, that is your go-to before you even say your first word. Because it is going to make sure that that fight or flight never kicks in.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It keeps that analytical side, that logical side in it the whole time. Instead of going, oh, but wait, they can't yell at me like that. No, no, that's a dumb idea. Can you believe that you say, instead of that, that's your fight or flight. You never even gave yourself a chance to breathe.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When you breathe and use that, what I call a conversational breath, it allows you to go, huh, I wonder where this is coming from. I wonder why they said it like that. Now it allows you to kind of stay detached from that current moment because you're injecting your breath into it. When you allow yourself to breathe, then it's going to keep you much calmer.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And so anytime I have a client that maybe is getting a question from an attorney that would be triggering to them or upsetting to them, it's always the training of use your breath while they're asking the question and start getting really curious as to why they're asking that. What's the point that they're trying to prove Don't look at the surface of the question. Look at the intent behind it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Where are they trying to take you? Whenever I can teach them that, it's a very powerful result.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. Which is quite uncomfortable for a lot of people. You'd think, but the more they do it, the better it becomes. In fact, I like it because it tells you that I actually listened. So let's say, for example, just say, how was your day, Jefferson? How was your day, Jefferson? It was good. It was good. My day was great. It was a day. Ask me again. How was your day, Jefferson? It was good.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It was a good day. I liked it. You see how one says, I didn't even think about what you asked me? The other says, no, I actually thought about the question. I considered it, and then I chose my answer. And so you can do that even when, especially for leaders, they go into a very busy work environment where there are problems right on the floor.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They have to address this right at that current moment. The bad leaders will get very hectic and rise to that same level of energy. The great leaders will capture the calm energy. They inject that breath and go, okay, what's next? Have you ever, my grandfather, for example, I can ask him one time, I was like, hey, do you know where your screwdriver is? And he goes, Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's just going to continue to go around because you're not hitting that root cause.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Hmm.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
that that takes a lot of inner work of writing it down yeah i mean that's just it's plain and simple there's a difference between distilling keeping it in your head and actually getting it on paper uh because that that's going to make it much more tangible of what am i asking for what is the question i need this person to answer rather than what is the feeling i can convince myself that they're giving me and it's a big big difference every time i've never considered that dude
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, absolutely. So if you ask that hard question, are you cheating on me? And the Amiga will go, no. The answer to your question, that didn't make you feel any better. Because you weren't looking for a conversational answer. You're looking for a feeling. You got it. And so you got to extract that out. Yes. And so the person can't give you feelings.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And that's all something you have within yourself. I can't make you feel a certain way. You know that conversation. And so it's the same thing when they answer the question, but yet you still feel it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
like i'm i am i need i need i need that feeling i need that vacuum from you give me all the feelings where i feel comfortable yeah yes let me feel good and safe and secure you're not going to get that not in the way you asked that question dude that's profound that means i would almost recommend somebody hold off on what i would say like the buck stops here conversation yeah until like you you write about eloquently until you know exactly what you're asking
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, how you want to feel after it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Because it can be, even when you get the answer, it can feel very hollow.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Because you, they're not going to give you what you were looking for. It was the feeling you were chasing. Okay.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Dang.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You know what I mean? Yeah, that's hard because there are some people, and we know who those people are, who... will also weaponize their relationship in a way, weaponize their friendship. Look, you do this, so I can't be friends with you anymore.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
On a base level, I understand that, but also understand you are putting them in a position of almost a threat of just that if this is how you want to engage with me, then I can't do that. Depends what they're doing, but there are people who will use that too much when it's like, wait, you only see them maybe once every six months? How much are they really weighing on your peace of mind?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Are you just trying to use this to also control your own environment and how they should react? I mean, you know me. I know you. We're pretty chill. Right, right, right. If you're watching a show that I don't agree with, all right. And so it's how much are you carrying? Why are you picking it up? Why are you holding it? Now, again, it's that dynamic with...
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
They continue to belittle me, put me down. They always make fun of me. They always make me feel less at that family reunion. Then you don't go. So there's some practical things just physically. Let's put it in the physical sense. You have to be physically near them. Do you have to choose to be around them or talk to them? I mean, those are some of your base levels.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You're right.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Right, yeah. Yeah, I definitely, and I mean, I have my own grandparents that love to use all caps on their Facebook posts. You know what I mean? And so it, it's real easy to go, oh, they just have a different opinion than me, then I need to cut them off, then this isn't serving me anymore.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I feel like you can get really toxic with that kind of behavior when you put up so many boundaries that you can't move. And so that's a, you said something that gave me the ick, but I think that's, that was a point.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, and that's what I meant about weaponizing. They objectify it in a way of, well, this relationship isn't symbiotic. This isn't serving me anymore. I feel like that's a word that is, I get the same ick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there are people who won't take a second, they won't hesitate to use that kind of logic.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I'm all for, if there is a line where, let's say you are in a position with a friendship and that person has continually just treated you poorly, turns out they're not a friend, they backstab you, they talk bad about you, cut them off, no problem.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I also, from my own personality and how I see life and I think same way you do, is why, the quickest way to lose your peace of mind is to give someone a piece of yours. So you just need to also let them go. They don't have, because every time you bring them back up, you're putting them on the next page of your book. You're putting them on the next page. Leave them in two chapters back.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You don't have to continue. They're not meant to be in the rest of your book. So it is, you can cut them off. Sure. And we can talk about, you know, what are the exact words or phrases, but it's, it all goes into the different contexts. I just, I feel a certain way when people are saying, I need to cut this person off. Okay. Well, how, how often are you with them?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Is it because they posted something you didn't like? It's then what are you carrying? Why are you picking up with something they never asked you to hold on to?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And it's her first time to be a mom too. Exactly. It's her first time living this life. That's right. That's right. And so you and I both emphasize the grace that you give other people. Right. How personally you take what they're doing is a direct reflection of how much grace that you're giving them. Right.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Exactly. There you go.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
How did it come about? It came about, I never thought, John, I never thought I'd ever write a book. Of course. Ever. I just never. It was never on my bingo card. And when I was posting my content, my stuff on Instagram, we just have these comments, you need to write a book, please write a book. I go, well, I guess I need to write a book. So I Googled, how do you write a book?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And so I've been through that whole process. And the team that's publishing it said, I think you really have something to say. And I said, well, okay, I'll... We'll figure it out. So what this book does is it distills really my framework for how I communicate. And my prayer is that when they read this, they really don't need me anymore. Like there's the framework.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
The framework is that when you speak, when you need to say what you need to say, you're going to say it with control. You're going to say it with confidence. You're going to say it to connect. And those three really are your foundation for almost any conversation. You can start making your own Jefferson Fisher communication videos
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And the whole premise is that you can change everything in your life by changing the next conversation. I know that it doesn't matter what I said in the last one. I can change everything with simply what I say next. Say next. Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, help me, brother. Yeah, the whole premise of the book is to never win an argument. We have so many blogs and there's other books out there of how to win every argument. I just think it's snake oil. It's empty. It's not going to get you anywhere. Because when you win, you lose a lot more. You lose their respect. You lose the relationship. What did you win? You and I are in an argument.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I send that zinger that's going to hurt and burn in your eyes, and you walk off, and I won. Great. Now what? It's like the golf clap. Congrats, bro. You got it. What did you win? Congrats. You won their contempt. You won the awkward silence now as you pass each other down the hall. You still have to probably work with this person. You probably still have to live with this person.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
All you've won now is to be first up to apologize. That's what you've won. Congrats. Congrats. Yeah, just enjoy that trophy. And so the whole premise is to never win an argument because you'll start to lose the relationship. And what you need to do is stop seeing arguments as something to win and as knots to unravel.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
When you can start, instead of pulling your way or my way, and starting to go, help me see the knot, begin to unravel them, meaning having something to learn rather than something to prove, your life is going to be a whole lot better.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
One of the biggest mistakes I see, especially in marriage dynamics, is when somebody says, we need to talk. I mean, you can text that, and nobody likes to get that text. That's right, right, right.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a logical question because, and everybody's got this, that's why rule two is say it with confidence. Because what happens is the more words you give, the less you say. Yes. The longer it takes you to tell the truth, the more it sounds like a lie. Right.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You know, if you really know a topic, you don't have to explain a whole lot. So confidence is very quiet. Insecurities are very loud. Like you've ever been at a meeting and it's the person who typically has the most to say, has to have the, you know what, I'd like to give my take. And they always have to give something in it who knows the least about it. Yes.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
They know they don't have to say anything. Confident people know that they don't have to say anything if they don't want to. Insecure people have to say everything. They need to name drop. They need to make you know how smart I am, how many people I know, how many people have been on my show. It's the names that they'll just like to drop just so that you know.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's really that insecurity that's talking at the baseline.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You set yourself up for failure when you try to begin with the pleasantry, the small talk, the soft stuff. So how was your day? It's great. Oh, yeah, it was good. Oh, did you see John today? And then you go, exactly. If you haven't heard the end of it, you haven't heard the heart of it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
When you need to stand your ground?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, but the whole thing of standing your ground, standing up for yourself, is asking the question, is this person worth getting out of your chair for? So it's just limiting the number of hills you're going to die on. You got it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I grew up with my dad going, don't make that your Alamo. Is that going to be your Alamo? Yeah. Like, is this really? Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Officially, yeah, you officially hate me, whatever that is. So even if you're in the same room, you're texting, you say, we need to talk, period. It automatically goes, somebody's dead, or I'm... I might as well be. It's going to be me here in a little bit. What happened? And you're always looking for the worst thing. There is a sense of tension when you use the phrase need to.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Is this really? I mean, that would be his thing. I come to him with a problem. He'd go, okay, so? And I go, but you don't understand. This is happening. This is happening. Go. So, I mean, and eventually water me down to where you're at. I don't know why I'm making a big deal about it. Yeah. And so it's a mindset of the confidence of knowing I don't have to act. I don't have to move.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's typically the most powerful people say very little. It's the little dog that yips the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just runs and runs and runs. Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You have to add a lot of silence. So when you can add distance between what somebody has said and how you respond. Every time it gives you a lot more control and especially the perception of control. So let's say you and I are having a doubt and all of a sudden you just throw the worst insult ever. And I don't say anything back. It's the worst, man.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It still looks bad.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Forever. Right? Yeah. And so whenever you, when somebody walks himself out on a plank, and you just let them hang there. I mean, that's where you really have your sense of your power move of using silence because they know that they walked off on that ledge. So when you say unplug, it's really the concept of Knowing the power of the pause. Knowing that I don't have to say anything.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, you can take your ball and go home, but it's more of the basis of I just don't have to move because I'm confident in what I know and what I have to say. Same thing we were talking about gaslighters. That idea of when you're confident, I see things differently. You can disagree with me. That's fine. It's okay to disagree. I mean, now you're cool. Now you're cool hand Luke.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Otherwise, when you're having to go, no, no, no, no, that's not true. And you're bouncing every which way. You're getting heightened. You're yelling. Now you're saying, I'm grasping for control. One with the pause says, no, I'm in control. Much different feeling, much different vibe.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Right. Funny thing about defensiveness is it becomes a cycle. So you take something somebody says a certain way and you don't like it. So you get defensive. You say something defensive. Yeah. Well, in turn, the other person gets defensive and now you're convinced you're under attack.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's like you need to go sit down. You need to go do X, Y, and Z. And all we do is get defensive. Well, what you need to do is. And so we want to match that behavior. And I feel like it's a way of asserting dominance sometimes. It's like you need to go sit down. You need to go watch your mouth.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And so it becomes this loop, what I call a self-fulfilling prophecy, that you say, I thought you were mad at me kind of thing. You convince yourself that you were mad at somebody. When you get defensive, it's like locking the door in your room and then being mad at somebody that they can't come in. They should understand me.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You still expect them to cater to your needs when you've totally blocked out all of theirs. So it creates this wall that they should know. They should know how I feel. They should know that would upset me. But you care nothing about what's happening to the other person. Now, you can do certain things and techniques to prevent defensiveness from the other person.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's very hard to prevent defensiveness in yourself aside from just dropping it, not taking things so personally. It's extremely hard. But most of the time... The yell that somebody's given you is truly just a bid for connection because they're tight, they're tension, they're wanting you to hear. Most of the time, the yell is them wanting to feel like they are connected in some way.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Now, it depends what they're yelling.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, that could be very different. But the whole idea of defensiveness is that it is probably the number one conversation killer. If I were to tell you, you say something to me and I go, I can tell I'm getting defensive at that. Now, when you hear that, does that make you sound like I know what I'm doing? Like I'm in control of myself or I'm not? When you say, I'm getting defensive about that.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, if I say, I can tell I'm getting defensive about that.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That's a great metaphor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I once had a trial where we were probably halfway through and this guy on the other side was such a fireball. He just gets so heated about everything. And halfway through in a break, he goes, man, I really don't like you. I said, oh, that's okay. He goes, no, no, I like you. I mean, you're great. He goes, the thing is, he goes, you don't give me an enemy.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
He goes, I can't get mad at you. He's like, I can't. He goes, usually I try and make an opponent. So I've become, like before trial, of course, personally, we're fine. But when it comes to courtroom. Yeah, you put the gloves on and get after it. Exactly. I'm the opponent. And so he wants to feel justified in saying mean things and this other side, and they're the enemy. But I never gave him that.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And so anytime you get that, you want to make sure you don't lead with any kind of phrase that says we need to or I need to talk to you. It's going to immediately draw the spikes. Instead, you need to begin with can we. Can we talk about something that's important to me? That's an invitation. Now we say the rules apply to both of us. When you say can we.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Because I didn't deserve it. I hadn't done anything rude. I was always continuing to be kind and just water off a duck's back kind of thing. And that's a main key is most people are just looking for an enemy when it comes to conversation. They're wanting to find a way to be mad at you.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Perfect. You got it. That's it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That's it. They want to feel a certain way, so they need to dump it on somebody. And it just, you happen to be the living thing in the room. All right, so that distills down.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
So if it is, let's say for this particular caller, can we talk about something that's important to me? That's number one. Number two, you need to tell them where that conversation is going. I feel like particularly with males, like we just look for, is there a bear in the bush? Like what's going on? I need to know where is this conversation going?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
what gives you the belief in everybody now you can yeah because i've seen it i've seen it and that's a wonderful takeaway that it's a really just blessing to hear that from you john really i've seen it my experience in the courtroom depositions cross-examination just the everyday trenches of conflict i have seen people that could not go into a room without crying, shaking uncontrollably.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I have seen what I've been able to do once I spend time with them and teach them how to communicate. By the time that they're on the stand in the courtroom, you would never have even known it. And it's like, I know it. I know that they can, because I've seen the transition by just a few phrases of letting their breath be the first word. That's a great story.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah. And it's just little bitty things like that, where I've been able to see them transform into everything about them simply by what they say next. And by putting them in a position to where
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
rather than trying to control other people the magic happens when all they need to do is control themselves and magical things happen and i it's a message that i don't believe that culture is really talking about i never really thought about that until you just said that i guess it is very counter culture very counterintuitive i mean you do a good job here um of talking about like when your body goes to fight or flight you're not you you
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's been good to see you.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Because if I don't, we're going to cut in, try to fix it, try to solve it, try and like, oh no, this is what you mean. and this spouse says, no, no, no, no, that's not my point. Hear me out. Wait, wait, wait. And we get impatient. Like, can you just get to your point?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Good.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You really do. I've been watching your stories. I always heart your stuff.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Instead, it needs to be, and I'm telling you this because I'm feeling unheard here, or I want to walk away from this conversation feeling more understood. Like, you just need to give them a heads up of where that conversation is going. Because too often, we don't know what we're talking about until we're already there.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You ready?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
No, this is live. I love it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
This is a good one that I like. I got this one from Chris Voss and Lewis Howes. I think Lewis got it from Voss, who's a fantastic friend. Who's the mastermind.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
What's the chance we can talk about X, Y, and Z? What's the chance you'd be willing to go with me to do? That's a wonderful open-ended question. For people curious, open-ended questions are questions that don't assume the answer. Like, where did you go yesterday? You can go anywhere. A close-ended question is, did you go to the store yesterday? So close-ended question assumes what the answer is.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
If you only have a yes or a no response, it's a close-ended. You want to open it up. to get them talking. You can also begin your stuff with what or how, but don't begin it with why.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
If people feel like they're walking into a trap, and in fact, then later you spring the trap, you just lost trust. Forever. Forever. That's all you've done. It's not like you've proven your point. You've just... Man. Okay.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Oh, um... Well, if you're in law school, I would still... I'm sure your law school has advocacy. First of all, this is a very transactional answer, but your school probably has advocacy teams. I highly encourage those. They're a great way to learn and do any of that. If you get flustered, understand that that's probably just a sense of your nervous system.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
You need to be much more available to adding your breath. Breath is what's going to control those nerves. And also understand...
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
if you just don't want to be somebody in the courtroom you don't have to be there's tons of training actual attorneys that never see the light a day of a courtroom and do wonderful things in the world you can have a good life and not get on stage yeah yeah yeah for sure you can uh i mean i know lots of attorneys that even go into a hearing would terrify them so it just takes all the time they got they got it go with what's natural how do you recover
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Oh, how do you recover? Immediately say, I should not have said that. Okay, put it out there. Immediately take ownership of it. Okay. If you can say, I shouldn't have said that, or immediately, that was unfair, or that was unhelpful, you need to say what they're thinking. You have to go ahead and say what they're already accusing you of. That wasn't nice. That was unfair. That wasn't helpful.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah. Almost even what they're feeling. Yeah. Okay. You have to get that out front, apologize, depending on what you said, and get back on it. But the longer you delay, like if you withhold that apology, there's lots of people where you know all they have to do is apologize and they just won't. They'll hold it. It only makes things worse.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Exactly. Yeah, you don't know what to say until you're already talking. And that's when you go to, no, no, give me a second. I'm still figuring it out. You know, no, no, that's not my point. So anytime you're trying to land the plane, it's like you're just trying to find the runway when that happens. It typically is going to make the conversation go south.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Well, let's just put it as how do you disagree with really anybody? I mean, you can disagree with a narcissist versus it's the same thing. One is like we talked about, I see things differently. Another is I lean differently or I lean the opposite. I tend to lean the opposite or I take another approach. I love to have I take another approach.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, I like that one a lot. To just say I take another approach. Period. I don't have to justify it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I don't have to explain it. I don't have to explain it at all. So if it's, I tend to lean the opposite. So I see things differently. I take another approach or I tend to lean the opposite. The reason why I tend to lean the opposite is a little bit different because I'm giving them a history of what I typically do. I tend to. I tend to lean the opposite.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That means I'm not just basing what you said right now. I'm just giving you what I'm applying right now is what I apply to everything. So that way they don't feel nearly as called out. So this is just how my, this is how I typically handle things. But I tend to take another approach or I take a different approach. Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah. It's, I mean, I, I know that if I had to play what, as you termed dirty lawyer. Yeah. Mean lawyer. Yeah. Mean lawyer. Like I could, I could say really, I could say things, I could say things that would like hurt your childhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I have also had the wisdom poured into me from my family, my dad, my mom, and my walk of knowing that's a very lonely, empty road.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And then three is you need to try and get their buy-in into it. So it would be, can we talk about something that has been weighing on my heart here for a while? And I'm not asking you to solve anything. I just need you to hear me out. Can we do that? Is that sound okay? Is now a good time?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And so the power of detachment is a true power. When you can see conversations happening and kind of step outside yourself, like you're watching them in a movie theater where you're just eating popcorn and seeing how the other person's reacting. You get to see yourself.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
No, it's not a detachment from strength. You got it. It's not a detachment from cowardice or from the conversation. It's a detachment of needing to win.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
advice on respectfully shutting down rude or manipulative comments from elderly parents oh from elderly okay so if anytime somebody's saying something that you need to shut down you can't walk on biggest things you cannot walk on eggshells and be like oh let's not say that please you know if you're trying to those kind of people will feed off of that they'll try to lean to that anymore Even more.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Instead, you need to stand exactly where you are instead of beginning your words with you. You can't talk to me that way. I don't accept that tone. You can't yell at me, I don't respond to that volume. So whenever you can, instead of beginning it with you, begin with I, magical things can happen. You can figure out how to do that with almost every single phrase.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Instead of beginning with you, beginning with I, because you can't control what they're saying. You can't control their comment, but you can control yourself, beginning with I, and then you can quickly lay a boundary on that. I don't respond to those kind of comments. That almost feels like a, again, like a way to... It's a stiff arm. I'm just taking a step back.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It is a very polite stiff arm in a way of you don't understand where you're going with this. I don't respond to those kind of comments. And if you keep saying them, this is the end of the conversation.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And then when you get their buy-in in it, now you're in the conversation because people don't like to break their word. And if your husband says, I don't care, you've got a bigger issue. Yeah, then you have a way bigger issue. You've got to solve this thing. A way bigger issue than the conversation itself. That's not a communication issue. That's not a communication issue.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It doesn't exist, no, because you never know what they're, I can't control what they're going to do. Yeah, you never know what they're going to say or what the comment is or what the context is. Maybe it's probably something related to when you were a child that's triggering to you and they didn't have, maybe they didn't intend to it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I mean, when you can ask the question, did you intend to upset me with that? Did you mean for that to upset me? Like when you can ask the question back, instead of a response, turn them into a question. So instead of like, oh, well, that hurt, that was rude. Did you mean for that to sound rude? Did you mean for that to hurt me? Did you mean for that to embarrass me?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Oh, this, I'm going to say this real quick. On my way here, when I left San Diego, the way the airport's structured is, I just wasn't paying attention, but they have two separate wings that, to where I went all the way through security in one. I was like, where's my gate?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And I keep walking and I walk out of that entire terminal and I have to go realize I have to go through security and another part of it. And I turned around and there was one of the TSA ladies. And I said, oh my gosh, I think I went through that. I got to go through this all again. And she said, well, you should have been looking at the signs. We had lots of signs.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I said, well, yeah, I guess I should have seen the signs. I just didn't, I didn't see them. She goes, no, it's your fault, Cher. It's your fault. Dead serious. This is what she said to me yesterday. And I just stopped and I said, did you feel better saying that? And all of a sudden she got red. She goes, I'm sorry, sir. You're right. I'm sorry. I was frustrated. Yes, sir.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Like it was just a totally different. It's like that you can't let it penetrate.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Is that what we're going for? You got it. And that's the whole point of asking those questions. You become the mirror. And if it's really bad, you can ask them to repeat it. And then they have to be their own echo. But when you can say, did you mean for that to be... But also, I would say it also clarifies things. Yes.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
So like in a text message between me and my wife, if it's, did you mean for that to be short? That saves a lot of arguments. Yes. A lot of assumptions. Yes.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That's a relationship issue.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah, absolutely. Is that right? I'm toying with it. No, there's nothing wrong with that. Using needs can be weaponizing in a way. So this is one of my needs. Needs are more personal than they are an obligation. You can't argue them. I can't argue them. Exactly. People have problems saying to the other person, describing their needs, telling their needs, asserting their needs.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
rather than using – I like using preferences. It does the same exact thing. So I prefer if we did this. I prefer if we do that. It's a more indirect way of saying it, but it's just as strong. Because if I say need, then it goes back into that whole thing of – That's it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And if you don't, then you don't love me. You got it. Yeah, yeah. Dennis, why do you hate me? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Gaslighting is something that can absolutely drive you insane because that's what they're accusing you of. The way I like to handle gaslighting is a phrase that I use all the time, and this is what I teach, is I see things differently. I see things differently. And here, if he's already opened up his entire life to this human. They've got a deeper pathology.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
There's a much deeper issue that's engaged in that than just gaslighting. But when you handle somebody who's gaslighting you, their whole thing is to kind of use a cat with a laser pointer. Like they just want to point you to different places in hopes that you don't address the real issue. So they want to continue to make you chase. It's kind of a, they'd like to dig a hole.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
And you have to go, that's not what happened. And you start filling it back up. No, that's not what happened. And they go, oh yeah, you did. You don't remember this? And then you go, no, no, no, no, don't you remember? And that's the game as they continue to use it. If you've ever had somebody that you know the truth went a certain way, you knew the past events went a certain way, and instead...
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
what they're doing is trying to go back in time and go, oh, no, don't you remember? You said this, and then I said that, and that's when, you know, that's not what happened. They're controlling the narrative to try and play to their best favor. So often the biggest move you can make is no move at all, and that is just to be still and say, well, I see things differently.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
I understand you disagree with me.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That's all it is. So it just needs to be, I see things differently. Or you can disagree with me. I mean, that right there... And then just let it hang. Just let it hang. You just stop... Because that's much more powerful than, that's not what happened. Don't you remember? And you're trying to prove it. All you're doing is just giving them more strength to make a knot with.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Instead, if you just say, you're free to disagree with me. Period. Pause. Nothing. What are they going to do? They have to go find another hole to dig. And then they're just going to get tired.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
So the answer really for both of those is almost the same. You set yourself up for failure when you try to begin with the pleasantry, the small talk, the soft stuff, the fluff, when you can come into the conversation. Let's put it in a scenario, maybe not in the bedroom context, but let's say you have something sensitive that you're going to say. And you begin with, so how was your day?
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That's great. Oh, yeah. Was that good? Oh, did you see John today? Oh, that's wonderful. And then you go, exactly. And then what happens is you hear this. Did you hear John today? That's great. That's crazy. So listen, you know, I had... Right there. That's it. That's it. That's the transition. You heard it.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
So listen, you and then all of a sudden, everybody knows the temperature in the room has gone down. Now it's okay, where is she heading with this? I'm feeling like there's something that is hidden from me. You're trying to get to the point of I want to bring up this sensitive issue. All they hear is I'm so bad. I'm so bad. I need to get defensive right now. I'm not so bad.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
So they need to put up, put up, put up. Instead, you need to just lead with the hard talk. So if it is... I, this is what I like to say. Let me put it in some business context real quick. So if something, somebody's calling me with bad news, like on my team, uh, they are to say, you're not going to like this, like right out of the gate. Yes. As soon as I answer it, you're not going to like this.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
This is going to be – I'm going to be vulnerable telling you this. Whenever you can just try and prime the conversation with exactly what it's going to be, this isn't going to be fun for us to talk about. Then you get into the conversation rather than trying to come at it indirectly with a whole lot of fluff where it's just going to work up their anxiety because they don't know where –
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
you're going throughout all of it. So that would be the biggest takeaway. So if you're saying something that you want to have like a very sensitive discussion, let's say it is about things that happen in the home, then I would prefer that you lead very much with the hard intro. And that is, this is something that's going to be important to me.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
That's something that's going to be vulnerable for us to talk about. And I'm telling you about it because I know you want me to be vulnerable with you.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
It's hard to teach. Often it is the idea that you have to leave enough room in that conversation for what they're not saying. But often you have people who will very much tell you the truth, but it's in the silence of their words that it's the real answer. They could say something. Yeah, like, are you cheating on me? Exactly.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
There's a difference in a pause versus of asking the question that comes after, you know, where were you last night? and there's a 10-second pause. They didn't say anything, but they said a lot. That silence there, it may be the absence of words, it's not the absence of communication. Anytime it is more of the question of what are they not saying.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
If it's something very vulnerable, another technique is to really just prime the room, prime the conversation, saying this is going to be something that is sensitive for me. And they're going to either engage with you or not.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
But if somebody feels like they're the odd person out and they're looking for the answer they're not getting, that's a much deeper relationship issue that communication is not going to solve.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Yeah.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Of course. And I also feel that there are people who are in this same type of position and they don't know what answer they're looking for. They don't know the ultimate question of what they want answered.
The Dr. John Delony Show
Conflict Expert: Simple Frameworks to Make Hard Conversations Easier (With Jefferson Fisher)
Both. I think some of it is they just know it's a feeling. They don't know for a fact. And so they actually don't know the final question of what's the answer that I'm looking for here. They just want to feel a certain way. So most of the time, whenever you find yourself in the same argument, if you haven't heard the end of it, you haven't heard the heart of it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
How did he react to that? Both my parents did not really do social media at all at the time, and I didn't really do it either. Because at the time, Instagram was just take a picture of your latte and put an X-Pro filter on it, call it a day. And when they first saw it, they didn't really understand it. Because at first, I was just doing it for the law firm. He's like, oh, okay, well, you do that.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
But for a while, he just didn't.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
it's not that he didn't want to talk with me we have a very close relationship same with my mom wonderful wonderful wonderful people it was that it was just a sore topic for a while and when the law firm started doing well and things were starting to roll and i'll just never forget because you started your own i started my own law firm and all i had i went from having a corner office
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
uh two paralegals an assistant a whole team that just by myself at a coffee shop with my laptop next to somebody else who was in college you know and i just served coffee shops or borrowed friends back offices and when i got my own office and i was starting to do well and he called me And he said, well, I got a question for you. I said, what's that, Dad?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
He said, you still got room for the old man? And I said, what? He said, yeah, if you want. I mean, you can say no if you want, but I'd love to practice. Son, I don't know how long I'm going to practice, but for however long I got, I want to do it with you. And I mean, I just boohooed, of course. It makes me want to cry. I haven't met him yet. Yeah, you'd love him.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I just, yeah, I couldn't have been any better. He meant the world to me. And we get to talk every day. And we get to talk about cases. And it's just, it's great. It's wonderful. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And he's never been happier. I mean, he's just he's so happy to practice law. He's it's it's it's just awesome. It's it's. what you thought wasn't going to work out, when something turns around and shines even brighter, it just, you can't put that into words.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Probably number one would be warmth. And people that you just, you don't even have to talk to them. You can sit in a room and just feel it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And maybe it's their energy, maybe their vibe, maybe it's their spirit. Just whatever it is, the frequency that they're putting out into the world calms you. And I find that to be very, it makes you attracted to them because you like that warmth and that comfort that when you talk to them, you feel just a little bit calmer.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so people who communicate very well are not only good at being clear and direct and assertive, but they're also emotionally intelligent enough to know when to slow down. Because things are so busy and we ramp up, but they know that good communication happens in the smallest of words, the shortest of sentences.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, well, I think you'd agree, you never want to hide your light. And I mean, there's so many opportunities that we have to do that. And it's leaning into it. If people feel like, oh, I'm going to be weak if I'm perceived this way. If you go by how you listen to music, things that are very fast affect you, makes your mind race.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When somebody's talking really, really quickly, and then you can hardly understand what they're saying, and they're getting ramp up and ramp up. That kind of gets you and your anxiety up. But people who slow down and they show more control, it's not the opposite. They show more control, more confidence.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When you're adding distance to your communication, you are showing them that you are comfortable exactly where you are. And that also shines onto them to show that where you are is okay, too.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. The pausing is the most powerful tool you can use in communication because it gives you time to choose things. It gives you time to choose, is this worth my words? Is this worth my attention? It also gives you a chance to
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
calm your own emotions to regulate your emotions it gives you time to think and when you're able to pause in conversation it allows you to show control if you were to ask me jamie if you said jefferson how was your day and i immediately said good i mean my day was fine it was good it was good that tells you one thing if you ask me again jefferson how was your day and i said it was good it was good
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Very different connotation. What you're telling in the first one is, I didn't really listen to your question. The second pause is kind of clarifying of, I listened to you. When somebody even gives you one second, two seconds of a pause after a question, it tells you that they're thinking about it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And it's allowing you to show that you're actually acknowledging taking it in before you just spit out a response right away. Because we're such in a world of immediacy, of texting back right away, saying that, having that clap back as soon as you get it out. And where the real power in communication is, is slowing things down.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It's the pause, because it allows the other people, just like you said, when you're speaking to people and maybe they clap or they cheer, it's allowing them to contribute to the conversation.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Thank you. Very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing. And right now I'm just holding on.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, you got it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Right.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yes. When you're able to ask that question.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
You should do it. I'm doing it tonight. You should.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Well, what we fall into is instead of living in it, we're just pressing the buttons.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
You know, barista asks, how's your day? Oh, it's good. I'm fine. How are you? Oh, good, I'm fine. We're just pressing buttons. We're not really living in it. Let me tell you the one trick to making sure that it does work with your kids and with your husband. We want the trick. This is what I live by, and I teach this to every one of my clients, and it is this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Let your breath be the first word that you say. So where your first word would be of going, no, I'm good, I'm good, You put a breath in its place. And so when you have the mindset of a breath being the word, I mean, it's because you're saying something. Even in that pause, in that breath, in that silence, it might be the absence of words. It's not the absence of communication.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So if you ask me how my day was and I go... I conveyed something right there. That's a sigh. I'm sending the message to you. Without words, it was heavy. It was a load. It was a lot. And when you have that pause, it's the invitation to connect.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It really is. And the thing with communication of what it makes it so important on top of just the pause and the ability to take a moment and express how you really feel is that what you say. for the vast majority of your life, is who you are. That's how people will experience you. That's how people will experience Jamie. That's how people will experience Jefferson.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It's not by really what you do that they might see that act of kindness. It's what you say. When you say, I like that person, you just met them. You say, I like that person. They were nice. What you really mean is they said nice things. Somebody's rude and you don't like them. Yeah, that person's rude. Just means that what you heard is you didn't like. It's not a rude to you.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So for the vast majority, it is your words is what describes who you are to those people. That's what's going to describe and evaluate your legacy. That's the ripple effect.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Are you ready for the tea? Yes. Okay.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Are you ready for the tea? Yes. Okay, my wife, no, I'm kidding. She's a fantastic communicator. Law really teaches you to be concise. And what I like to compare it is I'm a lot slower. She operates a lot faster. But often we have to communicate the same level. You have two kids and you're raising a family and everything. It's a lot. Our arguments are very short.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, it started never with the idea that this is where it would be. It's just continually been one step after one step, door after another door. I was at a big defense firm, a big law firm, and then I, as a partner, I left because I want to start my own. And when I did that, I thought, well, I ought to do some social media. And that was about three years ago.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And the reason because of that is we operate on this... very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter with your spouse, with your partner, with your friend, be quick to apologize. So often it is the continual circular arguments that just tend to roll on forever. because you can't really sleep.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When you're having that bad argument with your spouse or a significant other, it keeps you up at night. It begins to live and seep, and now you're having to put on an act for your kids when really you're irritated at each other and you want to lash out. Being quick to apologize and quick to resolve that makes our arguments very short because we're fast to say, that's not what I meant.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Or I can see how that's how you would take it. I didn't mean it that way. I didn't intend it that way. Whenever you can push out your intentions rather than pushing how they should react, it's a big difference. What I mean by that is here I am taking the accountability of I could have done better communicating that versus why would you behave that way?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Why would you even behave that way when I said this? Who reacts like that? So when you take the responsibility for being understood, radical things can change.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
There are times when, and again, I'm not pointing to where people are in toxic relationships, people with narcissistic tendencies. Yes, that can be circular and terrible. I'm not saying you should just apologize to apologize. What I'm communicating is, Whenever there is a friction in the conversation, we make sure that it doesn't get heated. In other words, it doesn't combust and turn into flame.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It is trying to draw it out by unraveling the knot and going, okay, this is how I understood it. What did you hear? Okay, that's not what I intended at all. I'm sorry. What I meant to say was X, Y, and Z. So the quicker you can get to that, the better. Right.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, they can sense it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
I want to make sure I tell you, right along with that, this happened sometime last year with my son, who is now seven. And I got home, long day, suit and tie, and I'm starting to make their lunches for tomorrow. Son asked me, you know, how your day was, Dad? And I said, I was fine, buddy. It was good. It was a good day. How was your day? And I'm continuing to make the sandwich.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And he doesn't bring it up again. We go on about dinner and bedtime, bath, everything. I'm sitting on his bed for prayers and song. And first thing he asked was, why did you tell me it was a good day when it wasn't? I kid you not, that is exactly what he said. I said, what did you mean? He said, you didn't say it like it was good. You said it like you were sad.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I started making videos talking about my law firm. I was a personal injury attorney. This is what I did. And I just felt sour about it going, yeah, I'm just selling myself. And I didn't feel that great. And I just kind of had this moment of, well, what do I really want to, what do I want my kids to see? If I'm not here anymore, is that really what I want to post?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I mean, it was such a just slap in the face of, I'm never going to say it was just good again. I need to, he needs to hear that from me, even when the day has been bad. He needs to hear when it's been tough. I mean, that's... And it was just this moment of how dare I try to just gloss over the fact that he needs to know that I have hard days too. And that hit me just like a ton of bricks.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So yeah, no hiding from him.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So values are intrinsic to everybody. What I value is gonna be different than what you value. They might be similar, but we all take it different ways based on how we've been raised. What values do is guide you like a North Star when you don't have any kind of compass. What I do, what I encourage, is that people have conversational values. Because when you do, decisions become easier.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Take it, for example, with a company. Major Fortune 500 companies, like your company, there are ones that have values. And when you have a value, decisions become easier because you don't have to question it. You follow the value. If my value is I only work with clients who align with me, It comes easy. I don't have to make that decision. I know that that's what I'm going to work with.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Same thing in your conversation. So one of my values that I hold dearly is where there is kindness, I will use it. Where there is room for kindness, I will use it. It doesn't matter what they did. It doesn't matter what they caused. The question is, is there room for kindness? And that comes from my mama. I'd complain about something that somewhat happened at school, expecting her to, you know,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Buy into the tea. Let's get some, you know, how dare they kind of thing. And what my mom would say is, well, were you kind? I can hear it in my head. She'd say, well, were you kind? And I would always go, I mean, probably not, Mom. And she'd go, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was just her thing. And that became such a value of me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When I'm talking on the phone to an opposing attorney and he says something snide, I know that he's trying to jab me. Is there room for kindness? I'll use it. And I'll say something like, well, you know what? I know you really care for your clients. I know you really care for your clients, Matt. And that really shows.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Any way that I can just share a little bit of kindness, I don't have to worry about the next zinger. I don't have to worry about what can I say to impress them. Is there room for kindness? And that's what I'll do. But I have others.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so often people post things without thinking of the legacy that they're leaving. And that really hit me hard of like, who do I want my kids to see that I am and that I stood for? And I thought, well, what's one thing that I feel that I know that's my gift that I can share? And it was, oh, I can teach people how to communicate, how to handle argument, how to turn conflict into connection.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Every time.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yes.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Because how they interpret it is going to be how they interpret it. I'm the one that has to be left with it. I'm the one that has to walk away and go home to my family. And if I'm carrying that conversation that I have with that opposing attorney home, Why? They don't deserve that. That's not what that conversation was for. That's not why they said it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so having these values, another that I love to use is if I can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. If things burn down and don't work out with other people, that's okay. they'll always still know where I'm at. They always know where to find me. So when you have these ideas in your head of what my value is.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Be a lighthouse. Be a lighthouse. Yeah, so let's say you and I have been friends and we have a big fallout. Despite what I say, and I'm really trying to mend this relationship, and it's just not happening. You've written me off. It's not working out. That bridge is really burned. Well, that's okay. I'm still going to be a lighthouse. Maybe I'll see you in five years.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Maybe I'll see you in 15 years when life has happened to both of us. But I'm not going to change the light that I'm going to put out into the world just because our bridge was burned.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And so when you have these values, and every one of us has a value, and that's how you handle your conversations because it allows you to, I don't have to worry about decisions. the values make the decisions for me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
paragraph that's gonna punch them in the mouth yeah it's got it always has a bad aftertaste yeah always yeah it may not be right within that moment it but it'll probably be the next morning it'll definitely be a week from now and i mean it's the longer it goes the harder it is to come back together
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Self-worth matters of who you're listening to. It's the question of who are you listening to when it's, say, I have the confidence or I can be assertive or I shouldn't have said that. It is the line of who are you listening to in your life that's driving your confidence. Your own value. So much of what we put in self-value is a lie often. It's doubt.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
We sow a lot of doubt into ourselves and that can grow over time to where when you get that one comment from a troll, all of a sudden you feel like they're telling you the truth. And really all they're doing is speaking to your doubts. And self-worth is something that you can grow into and
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so I thought, well, no, I can't do that. I need the right camera. I need the right lighting. I need to look like a lawyer. And eventually I just got over the excuses and I thought, well, I don't have an office because I just started my firm. I said, but I have my truck and I have my phone. Let's go. So I made my first few videos and then they just started to take off from there.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
i don't want to say lean into it's something you step into because when you can learn how to communicate effectively to stand up for yourself just a little bit you have that self-worth when you can tell somebody no and it works you feel excited about it you feel worthy and you feel like hey i have that within myself a good good job okay now you feel a little bit better and then you continue to grow in that step by step by step but self-worth is very much tied to your communication because again how you communicate
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
is who you are and how you feel about yourself.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Oh, yeah. Yes. No doubt. Because it's, who are you listening to? Am I listening to my own doubts? People who are negative, say negative things. And people who are positive, say positive things. It's as simple as that. When you start to doubt yourself, it's because you're listening to your doubts. You're not listening to the positivity.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When you feel anxious, you're listening to the anxiety-inducing thoughts of what-ifs of what-ifs, rather than the comfort in knowing, I know this, I know this, I know this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I just built a wonderful, wonderful community of people that really care about communication and I just believe that a better world begins with a better conversation. I really do.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Worthy is groundbreaking.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
This book is going to change lives.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Oh, nothing. They got zero. I Googled, why do my videos have zero views? And I even, there was one where I hired a good friend to record a video for me, TikTok style, because that was the big thing at the time, like very fast, quick transitions.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I paid him to do it, and I posted it. And you know how many people saw it, Jamie?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Zero. Nobody. Nobody. There are more people that watched me making a video with my kids, which I don't post my kids anymore, and my family. than they did for the video that I paid for. And I thought something's not right. It's just, I'm not, I'm not being myself. I'm not being authentic.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And that was just what, um, that was a path that was open for me to say, no, you need to start sharing what's, what's on your heart.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Absolutely. It was really rewarding. I still get the same feeling. I can't tell you, Jamie, how eye-opening it is for me, the fact that I make these videos in my car. Nobody else is around. It's in a parking lot. It's on the side of wherever. I make them in a gas station.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
No budget. And I think about them almost immediately before I make them. And then right after I make them, I post them. Yeah. Probably not wise, but I don't batch anything. So what they're seeing is really my thoughts in real time of what happened in my day, what's going on. But the ability to help somebody in the comp, first when I started to get some followers, that was very new to me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
I originally only had like 800 followers, which, by the way, were all friends from school, in law school. That was more intimidating to post to real friends and people that you knew. Yeah. you care about their opinion a whole lot more than if it's a whole bunch of strangers. And so slowly, I just got really, really sweet comments of people saying, this is great. I'd love to hear about this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And what are your thoughts on that? And just when you operate in a spirit of giving, a lot of good things happen.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
yeah jimmy my parents every night um my dad would sit on the edge of my bed lean over and pray and say dear god give jefferson wisdom and always be his friend and that was the prayer for all of my life and i in my heart never will doubt the fact that what i have in communication is a gift and it is my honor my blessing to share that gift
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so when I share it, I don't think of millions of followers. I think of one person. And in many ways, that is my ability to be the light in their life that they needed to just hear how to inject some grace and kindness into their world. And that is that is my my gift to share. That's why it's my joy, because it's truly my gift.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It's not something that, you know, people say, oh, you learned it in law school. It's because you're an attorney. No, no, no. Law school teaches you how to read the law. It doesn't teach you how to read people. And so many things that have happened to me are from a spirit of discernment that you only know when you feel it, and that's the wisdom that is given.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. It was painful at the beginning. Those are some of the most emotional, difficult conversations. He's been at that firm for over 35 years. I was been there for maybe six. And I just knew in my heart of hearts, this is not... I wasn't fulfilled. Like I said, I felt like I was running with a parachute. Something was always holding me back.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
I wouldn't be able to express how I wanted to express. I couldn't really be creative. Having the conversation with him of leaving the firm, It may not sound like a big deal to some people. It was a really big deal. And he, I mean, almost begged me to stay. I mean, because in some sense, it was me leaving him. And so it wasn't leaving the firm. It was me leaving him.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
The ability to talk about cases every day. I'm walking away from that. The things that were heart-wrenching and just felt like a kick in the gut, that it wasn't I was leaving the firm. I was leaving him. And that was really hard to express. And he just would ask to help me save it. Let's do something different, get more involved. And I just would be, I've done that. I've tried. This is my path.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And that was really, really difficult. But the way things turn out,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Everybody coming at you from beautiful Colorado on vacation with the family. I have to say that 2024 has been absolutely wild. We started this podcast, which tried to number one for three entire weeks. I finished my book, which releases in a few months. And I got to speak at NASA and tons of other cities I've never been before. All I can say is a huge congratulations.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So we're going to talk about those strategies. Number two, if they belittle you and you ask them to say it again, then you're going to give them questions of intent. Questions of intent. Those are questions that ask them to have them search into the intent of why they're asking or why they're saying what they're saying. For example, did you intend to embarrass me? Did you want that to hurt me?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Again, we are withholding that hit of dopamine. And number three, if they have responses, are they going to keep on going? And if they're not a person that you feel safe around, number three, you just say nothing at all. You let your silence be your response because often when you say nothing at all, it's the most powerful move you can make.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So one time I had a case, this was probably about two years ago, and I am training a client. And by the way, I train almost every client that I have in conflict advice, how to communicate in conflict, how to say things in a way that's going to protect them because when I present them for cross-examination at trial or deposition,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
In many ways, I'm handing them off for somebody else to try to hurt their credibility, for somebody else to attack them. Those are the opposing attorneys. It just comes part of the job. And what I did with this particular person was train her on when somebody belittles you. The other side, which I knew the other attorney was, he was very critical.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
He was somebody that was, you know, the type of people that just love to throw bombs in conversations just to aggravate you. It was very much like that. I knew he was going to want to say something to upset her. He was going to try to say something to cause a reaction. And so what I trained her in is making sure that she gets him to repeat whatever he said that was ugly in some way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
She seemed to understand it. We kind of practiced it a few times. But then, then on the day of the deposition, she made me so proud. So other attorney was asking her questions and he made a snide little comment. Most people in that situation, when somebody gives you a belittling comment, you want to take it, right? You want to take off with it and challenge them and start getting ugly with them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
When they first make that rude comment, they're playing a two. You have a choice, do I play this game or do I not? Maybe you decide that you want to. You're gonna lay a four. Or they're gonna lay another rude comment and then they play a seven. And you go, okay, how far do I push this? How far do we go in these rude comments between one another?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
She didn't do that. Instead, what she did was... She asked him, did you say that to embarrass me? She goes, I'm sorry, did you say that to embarrass me? Without, I mean, just immediately, this other attorney goes, oh, no, no, no, I mean, no, I didn't mean to say that. And he totally backtracked in real time. I mean, I could not, I couldn't have wiped the grin off my face.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
All she asked was, did you intend to embarrass me? These little tips really, really work. And I want to go back to number one. That is, you ask them to repeat the belittling thing that they said. I know that sounds counterintuitive. You're going to think, Jefferson, what are you talking about? I'm going to have them repeat the belittling thing? I'm going to make them say it again?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I have to hear it twice? Yes. Yes, and let me tell you why. When somebody makes a belittling comment, they are wanting that reaction out of you. They are wanting some kind of response. When they say something to hurt you, you're giving them that reaction by being hurt, by getting upset, by huffing and puffing, throwing something back, by yelling at them. That's what they want.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
often when you ask them i need you to repeat that i need you to say that again they won't do it they can't do it or they'll backtrack because they realize oh wait they're not doing what i want them to do they're not taking the bait and so often they can't repeat it that second time or they'll say it differently than they did they'll rephrase their words
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
If by chance that they do say it again, now you know what you're dealing with. And that goes to number two. You ask questions of intent. And this can be used from the workplace to home to kids who are being bullied in some way. When you ask somebody, did you intend? Did you intend? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend for that to upset me? Did you intend to hurt me?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
When you ask those questions, what it does is instead of the spotlight being on you and your behavior and how you're going to respond to that belittling comment, it goes back to them. Now the spotlight flips. It flips, and they have to ask themselves these questions like a mirror. Why did I say that? Why did I do that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They're forced to now answer the intent behind, the purpose behind their hurtful words. And so often when that happens, the other person will apologize or rephrase or say, I didn't mean it that way, or they'll move on. The biggest key to this is you're not going anywhere. You are showing that you're standing your ground. You're not saying anything rude.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
You're not putting your integrity on the line. You're just asking them to see themselves by just saying, why did you do this? Did you intend to hurt me? Did you intend for that to upset me? Because what you're telling them is whatever you meant to do, it's not having that effect. Whatever you meant for that to be, you're not getting it. And they'll backtrack from it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And that's a bad game to play because nobody wins, right? Everybody's going to lose in that game. One of you is going to have to apologize, and it's typically the person who plays the last card. Whoever says the worst thing that shuts the game down is typically the person who is now the responsibility to apologize first. when you can end it all by just not playing the game.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Number three, if by chance they respond and say, yeah, I didn't mean to hurt you. Yeah, yeah, I didn't mean for that to embarrass you. Understand that's not somebody you want to be around, right? That's not somebody you want in your life. But the best thing that you can do often in those situations is say nothing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Now, I don't mean that to say I'm not equipping you with any tools and just be a wallflower or somebody just to be laid over. No, I'm saying is often silence when you just look at them. It says, I don't have to respond to anything that you said. It's not having that effect. And then their words ring hollow because there's just nothing for their words to stick onto. It's just nothing but an echo.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And that's how you're going to have something to where you're going to be more powerful every single time. So let's run through a quick example. All right. Let's assume maybe you're at work in a team meeting or something. And you make a suggestion and somebody makes a belittling comment. They say, nobody asked you or nobody cares. Have you heard that before?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Or somebody says, did I ask or nobody cares? Nobody asked you. When you hear that, let's go. Number one, make them say it again. That means you're going to ask, can you repeat that? Or say that again for me. Say that again for me. They're going to say, nobody asked you. If they actually have the guts to repeat it. Number two, going to go to a question of intent.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Like, do you say that to make me feel less? Do you say that to make me feel small? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend to dismiss my ideas? Do you say that to dismiss my ideas? You see how you're taking what you perceive their action to be doing and you reflect it back on them like a mirror. Did you intend for that to hurt my feelings?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
When you say that, they then have the spotlight all on them. They have the floor to either correct the issue, accept the issue and apologize, or double down on it. And whatever they say, now if they apologize, it's up to you if you want to accept that apology, if it's a genuine apology. But if they double down on it, then don't feel the need to
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
to go back at them don't feel the need to say anything ugly you just let it go silent because if other people are around they're going to be paying attention to your integrity other people are going to be paying attention to how you're going to respond and the person who is more emotionally mature every single time is the person who feels like they don't have to respond to disrespect they don't have to respond to these things that are belittling or beneath them in some way that you have this threshold of respect before you respond to these kind of things
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
All right, we're at the part of the episode where I get to read a question from a follower. It's one of my favorite parts of the episode. If you're not part of my weekly newsletter, I send out an email once a week right to your inbox. And those who are part of the newsletter are able to email me questions. So that's where I get all these from. This one is from Carol. She's in Denmark.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Let me pull it up. Carol says, Hey, Jefferson, I love all of your advice. Thank you, Carol. I have an issue with somebody at work. This is a colleague or coworker of mine, and he likes to compare me to different things. For example, he would say, not bad for an old lady or not bad for a blank. I'm guessing this is comparing you to something else.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
These are things that really bother me, and I like to try and wave them off, downplay them, but sometimes when I'm home alone, they really, really get under my skin. What do you suggest? Carol, I'm so sorry that that happens. I don't like that at all. I need to meet this person. The way you described it, it was a male co-worker.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Rude comments are like platforms to where if they say something rude and you say something rude, well, you've now just justified them in taking another step. You've now justified and convinced them that you are every bit... of the comment that they just made. Because now, instead of being curious about it and saying, hey, where's this coming from?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And I don't want to get into the differences on men, women, but what I can tell you is here are some basics that I want you to follow. Number one, Carol, you stay as calm as possible. Don't wave this off. Don't laugh it off. Absolutely not. Because when you laugh it off or you act like it's not a big deal, it does nothing to stop them from doing it again. They will continue to do it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
This person will continue to say these belittling things. And that's often a very belittling tactic is when somebody compares you to things. Not bad for an ugly person. Not bad for somebody who's old and tired. Not bad for somebody who's X, Y, and Z. Or they might say, you're so annoying. You're such an idiot. You're not bad for not the sharpest tool in the shed kind of thing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
These little things that they think are funny in that moment, and most likely he's doing it in front of other people trying to get some kind of laugh, trying to get attention. I want you to stop all of that by remaining calm like we talked about. Number one, remain completely calm about it and don't laugh it off. Number two, ask him a question. This is the question.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Make him question the purpose of why he's asking that. Did you say that because you thought it was funny? Did you say that to get a laugh? You can call this kind of behavior out very quickly by asking these questions of intent like we talked about earlier in the episode. If that doesn't feel comfortable to you, Carol, you can always ask him to repeat that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So if he were to say something like, you know what, that's not too bad for an old lady. He might not have said that in a way to be hurtful, but man, it certainly can feel that way. And if you ask him to repeat it, say that again for me. I need you to say that again. All right, man, he might feel that and go, ooh, I can tell he's not going to want to say that again.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Or if you've asked, I need you to say that again slower for me. That means you're asking him to say, not bad for an old lady. He's probably never going to say that because it's going to expose him. It's going to put him too far out on a ledge. People don't like to feel like they're exposed in their bad behavior. That's what repeating, asking them to repeat it does.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
That's what asking them these questions of intent does. When they go off on a ledge, they feel like, oh, everybody's listening to me. Everybody can tell. And when they feel that way, they hide. They hide because they know at that point they've gone too far. They've gone too far, Carol. So when that happens, don't smile, don't laugh it off, don't wave it off, don't try and be funny with it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Instead, you're doubling down on it, which makes it look like you're confirming what they said and saying, yeah, but even, but you're this and you're that and you're X, Y, and Z. They're just going to get more defensive and then it's going to continue to ramp up. So it's a losing game, lose, lose situation. Don't do it. So let's assume that someone's made a rude comment towards you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I want you to just calmly ask the question, did you say that to embarrass me? And just let that rest. Give it that silence. Don't feel like you have to rush. Don't let it bother you. Don't let it get you upset because that's what he wants. To be able to say, did you say that because you thought it was funny? And just let that hover right there in the air and see how he responds.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Most likely, the result you're going to get, Carol, is he's not going to do that again. And at the end of the day, what you have demonstrated and shown him without even saying it is that you're the type of person that can stand your ground. You're the type of person that is not going to be pushed over. All right? You got it. Somebody just told you something, but you know it's a lie.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Thank you to every one of you who supported me and followed me along the way. In a wrap up 2024, I put together your top three most listened to episodes of season one of the Jefferson Fisher podcast. I'm eternally grateful for you and I'll be having a wonderful end to the year. Today, we're talking about how to respond to rude comments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
If you call it out, well, it's just going to be worse. They're going to double down on it. But if you leave it alone, well, that can be just as bad. On today's episode, it's all about how to respond to a liar. When somebody tells you something that you know to be a lie, number one... take a pause and say, I need to come back to this conversation. I need to come back to this conversation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
If they're telling you the truth, no problem. They're going to say, okay, take your time. But if they're not telling the truth, oh, they're not going to like it because it's telling them that you're not buying it. They're going to have this big overreaction and say things like, well, what do you think happened? Or, well, you think I'm lying?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They're going to try and reconstruct the narrative while you're talking. Number two, you can also say something feels off. But something feels off. If they're telling the truth, they're not going to have any problem with it. They're going to try and work through it and say, well, what feels off? Let's talk about it. But if they're not, oh, they're going to just spiral.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They're going to try and actually gaslight you and challenge your sense of reality and say things like, you are literally insane right now. Or do you know what you even sound like? You're crazy. Number three, you can say nothing at all. 10 to 15 seconds of silence. And in that silence, liars actually start to talk to themselves. They'll start to say things like, what are you worried about?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
That's not even me. Why would I even say something that's not the truth? And they'll start to just falter and flip and get really defensive. And that's your sign that you're dealing with a liar. Now, I want to make sure and tell you that this is not a one-size-fits-all situation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
There are personalities, people who may be neurodivergent or people who are more prone to over explaining things or needing to elaborate on things that make them sound like they may not be telling the truth or that they may be lying or they're trying to construct things in a certain way. That's not the indicator.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I don't want you to think that people who have to talk a lot necessarily are lying to you. The key, the indicator that I like to see or that I look for is a big overreaction where we might be talking at a level three. And as soon as I may try to challenge a little bit of the fact to say that doesn't seem to match up to me, something feels off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They go all the way to 12, where all of a sudden they are highly defensive. They are on the attack. They're starting to say things that are ugly. They're starting to challenge in a way that it is not meshing in.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Now, rude comments, in my opinion, are ones that they're not terribly insulting, like super condescending, bad, bad things that you would say directly to somebody. But they're also not polite. They're not nice. They're not kind. They can fall in between. Usually they catch you off guard, that you're not expecting them in some way. And at that moment, you have a decision.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
with the level of a three that we were previously talking at so when you see this big high overreaction followed by major defensiveness that's your indication that i need to trust my gut here i need to listen to myself uh not just what they're saying but really what my sense is because every one of us you and i and everybody have a sixth sense about us when we can tell somebody is not telling the truth somebody is not being entirely genuine
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So I don't want you to think that just because they're elaborating or over explaining, they're trying to pull one over on you. Everybody has different ways and you're going to know based upon the personality and specifically what you're talking about. Maybe you're talking about something in a relationship, maybe some kind of fact that you know to be true and they're trying to push you another way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Just be careful about it and understand that one size does not fit all. One thing about liars is that they don't like delay. Whenever you add distance between what they said and when you believe or don't believe what they said, they just twist in the wind. They hate it because it tells them that you are not taking the bait. They want that immediate reaction.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They want you to just continue to go along as if everything they said is fine. They want to be a smooth liar. They want everything to be just fine for you to take their story. But the more suspicious you are, the more they will push back at you. Understand that those who tell the truth... They really have no problem with it. You take all the time you need. I know my truth is my truth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So let's put it in an innocent example. Let's say you asked me, you said, Jefferson, what did you eat for breakfast this morning? And I said, oatmeal. And they go, I don't know about that. Are you lying to me? I say, no. And the more defensive they got... the less I'm going to get upset about it because I know I'm telling the truth. I know what I ate.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
You need to take a break from the conversation. You need to think about something. Something feels off to you. Okay, let's talk about it. Why does it feel off? But I know what I did. I don't have to hide anything. But if I'm telling a lie, well, then I'm going to get more defensive that you're not buying it. So often when people are...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
delaying that conversation, the more liars are going to twist off. Just be prepared for that. I like to start out with number one of, this is something that I need to come back to. When you say, I need to come back to this conversation or I need to think about this, it's delaying it. You're saying, okay, I hear you. I need to do some thought on my own, process this, and then come back.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
In other words, I need to do some research. Liars don't like you to do research. They want you to just buy exactly what they said. So understand that that is something that is going to be part of that package when you say, I need some time to think about this. And it also empowers you to say, look, I know what I heard, but I also know what I know. I know my facts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So I'm going to take some time with this, and I'm going to think things out. That's the way to respond in those situations. Another reason that I like number two, and that is something feels off, that is really easy. For you to just say something feels off, they're going to say, what's wrong? You go, something feels off. People who are telling the truth have no problem talking with you through it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Do I respond or do I not respond? And the answer depends on the context. It also depends on the relationship. But let's assume in this situation, you're walking into a meeting and you have somebody that you know is, you two really don't get along all that much, but they make this comment. They say, well, it's nice of you to finally show up. In that moment, you know that's a dig.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Okay, let's talk about it. What feels off? Let's talk. People who are liars don't want to talk. They don't want to talk. They just want you to believe. They want you to take it hook, line, and sinker. So they will have this big reaction. Don't be afraid.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And when, if in that moment they try to, what they call gaslight you or try to say that you're, attack your character, they attack you personally and say you're crazy, you're insane. Do you know how literally insane you sound right now? Don't take that kind of bait. That's all it is. It's just bait.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They're going to try and get a rise out of you because the more upset that these people can make you, people with toxic traits or narcissistic tendencies, they're trying to get a rise out of you to get you more upset. And now you're fighting about the lie and you know what they're going to do? They're going to keep going, keep going, all the way to a level 12, and then they'll flip on you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They'll flip and say, I don't know why you're always attacking me. You know, you never believe me. You remember what you did four months ago?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Something that they bring up to pass, and all of a sudden, they're pointing out that they're the victim, and you're the one that's the attacker or the offender, just not believing them and never understanding them, and you don't really get them, and now all of a sudden, you feel like you're in a position where they're wanting some kind of apology, and this is just another instance.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Stay away from that. Listen to me. Stay away from that. When you add silence and add delay, even 10, 15 seconds of silence makes a huge difference when it comes to handling somebody who's a liar. Because if you were to say, if you were to point out right away, that's a lie, you're a liar, you think they're going to go, yep, you're right, thing, you got me. Ah, you're so good. You got me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Absolutely not. They're going to say, what? No, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm a liar. Oh, yeah, me? What about you? And all of a sudden, it's just going to get worse. They'll double down on it, and you're going to have to peel back layer upon layer. But if you just give the silence, they will have that conversation for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
they will have the conversation in their head, oh my gosh, they're not buying, okay, I need to tweak, I need to pivot, I need to say something else, or I need to a little bit more reveal the truth without you having to say a thing. Now that, that is true control. I'm gonna share a story real quick with you. When I was, probably about three years ago, I had a case,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And often in car wrecks, a major issue is texting while driving, as you can imagine. People don't like admitting that they're texting while driving. Everybody does it. And it's it's terrible. It's a major, major cause of commercial and personal auto case accidents. So a part of the question generally in a deposition is whether somebody was texting.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Well, I was talking to this guy, taking his deposition. He was on the other side of me. And I asked him, I said, were you texting while driving? Automatically said, no, no, I never text while I drive. Problem number one, he just said, I never. Never is an absolute. So if you're going to use an absolute, if you're going to say never, it better be never.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So first thing he said was, I never text while I drive. Here's the thing. I already had his cell phone records. I had all of his mobile records. You don't know what people are texting. You just can see the transmission of when they send a text when it was received. I already had all that because his attorney gave it to me. It's part of the trial.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So I already know I have that, but I don't bring it up right away. Instead, I just give about 10 seconds of nothing. 10 seconds of nothing. And I just kind of looked around the room, looked at him for a second. And in that moment, within not even 10 seconds, he said, well, I mean, sometimes I do, but most of the time I don't. Right there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
He just, what they call in Texas, crawfished in the South, meaning you're backing up what you just said. You're actually going back on it, saying, well, I mean, he went from I always or I never to, which is an absolute, to, well, I mean, I sometimes do, but I wasn't doing it right then. Yeah. All I did was repeat his lie. I just repeated it. I said, you never text while you drive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
The other people around know that's a dig. But they may not know the history between you two. So you're stuck in this situation of what do I say? Because if I'm ugly and I bring up past stuff, the people around you aren't going to understand. But they will understand if you decide to be rude right in that moment. So how you respond matters.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
All of a sudden, he started like, well, I mean, sometimes I do, sometimes I do. And I gave it a little bit more time, and then I followed it up with, you were texting your co-worker that day, weren't you? At that point, he was so far off the ledge that you're inviting him to come back. And at that point, he was just kind of relieved. He's like, yeah, I think I was.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure that I was. And at that point, I just tweak it a little bit more. You were. It's not a you think you were. You were. Yes, I was. Boom. Right then. I don't have to call him out as a liar. I don't have to have this big ordeal. I don't have to try and hurt his credibility in a harmful way. I can still be respectful and give him just a chance to walk off the plank.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Often just giving that a moment of silence and letting them hear their thoughts and saying, nobody in this room is believing this right now. They understand that all their feet... The floor underneath them, the carpet underneath them just got pulled. They have nothing else to stand on, and they'll go back to safety because they know that their lie is not being taken.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Now we're at the point of the podcast where I get to read a question from a follower. If you're not already part of my newsletter, I send a communication tip once a week right to your inbox where you can ask me questions and I get to respond to it. It's a lot of fun for me and I always pull one so I can talk about it in the podcast. This one is from April. April is in Nashville, Tennessee.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Jefferson, I love your stuff so much. Thank you, April. I have an issue whenever I'm trying to explain something. Sometimes I try to, I am elaborating too much where I'm trying to over explain, but some people feel like I am telling a lie when I'm really not. I'm just trying to clarify. Can you help give me some guidance there? April, you're not the only one, all right?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
That's the first thing is you're not the only one. There are a lot of people who feel like they just need to get it all out. They just need to get it all out. But sometimes the more that you say, the more it looks like you're trying to hide the truth. Let me tell you the difference, all right? It's when you're getting to the point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Often, if I were gonna ask you a question that is generally a yes or no question, or something that is a very clear fact, like what time did you get home last night? Or did you stop by the store yesterday? These are very clear things. Is it a yes or a no? Do you have a time or do you not have a time?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Often, people look like they're lying when they don't say that yes or no or that fact right out of the gate. Instead, they leave it for the very end. So if I were going to ask you, did you go to the store yesterday, which is a yes or no, they'll go, well, I mean, and they'll start talking about, well, first I went here and then I went there and they lay out this timeline.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
There are a lot of people who... They will have to say a timeline first. Like, well, I went here, then you said that, and then I did this, and they need to construct it in a certain way to get it all out. There's nothing wrong with that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
You just have to be careful to make sure that when somebody's giving you that time frame, they're not reconstructing it in a way that does not match what you know of the facts. But... What causes the problem, April, is when you wait to the very end to say that yes or a no.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
What I like to suggest in number one is you use the question, did you mean, and you insert different ways to respond. For example, did you mean for that to sound rude? Did you mean to embarrass me? Did you mean to upset me? When you say, did you mean, you give them a chance to clarify. You give them a chance to assess what they just said.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
If I ask you what time it is, and you start talking about something else, and at the whole point I'm thinking, why aren't you answering my question? Why aren't you answering my question? You're just trying to explain. What I hear is you're trying to delay, and you're trying to hide. What can eliminate that is when you give the answer, your point, right out of the gate, and then say...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Can I explain? Period. Did you go to the store yesterday? Yes, I did. Can I share with you something else? Right? That's going to give you a whole lot more room to say, I need to get some stuff off my chest. Or there's sometimes a question isn't a yes or a no. Lots of times my clients get in a deposition, they get asked questions. And what I train them on is some questions aren't a yes or a no.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
They're not black and white, but attorneys sometimes will try and corner them. And some people try to corner you into certain conversations. Instead, you just answer with, that's not a yes or no question for me. That question can't be answered in a yes or no. That's what I teach them. I can't answer that question in a yes or a no. Can I explain?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Or I'm happy to explain and I'm happy to share some more on it. So I don't want you to feel pressured that just because you need to explain things, it means that you're not telling the truth. That's not what that means. All that means is you just need to rearrange the structure of your sentences. Give the point at the very beginning, then explain.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Rather than, first thing out of your mouth is, let me explain. As soon as you say that first without giving the point, so if I ask you a question and you say, let me explain, people go, oh, great, you're not going to give me the answer. You're hiding the answer. You're delaying the answer. And it makes you look more like you're not telling the truth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So what I would encourage you to do is try to say the yes or no, the answer, direct answer up front, and then follow up with an explanation that supports that answer, not the other way around. Thank you for listening to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I'm going to ask you to follow it. And if you would just leave a review.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Today, we learned that when you're dealing with a liar, one of the best things to say is I need to come back to this conversation. Number one, I need to come back to this conversation. Number two, you can say something like that sounds off or that feels off. Anything that says this doesn't feel like the norm, something doesn't feel right about this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And number three, if you need to, just say nothing at all. Silence is often the best tool for liars to spin out of control and reveal that they weren't telling you the truth. And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
It's a question of intent, meaning you want to find out what was your intent in saying that. What were you trying to achieve by making that comment? And so when you say things that are questions of intent, you make them double back on what they said. And often, you can avoid an argument altogether. Because let's assume that this person who made this comment, well, they're not really just...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
they weren't really trying to be ugly. It came out the wrong way. That's not what they were really trying to say. So when you say, did you mean to embarrass me? Or did you mean for that to sound offensive or rude? Nine times out of 10, when you call them to the mat on that kind of question, they'll say, oh, no, no, what I meant to say was, oh, no, no, no, what I meant to do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And they try and clarify or they backtrack or they further explain. And that makes you look more wise. It looks like you have integrity. It looks like you're the one that's being the bigger person by checking it rather than just assuming their intent on it. And I also want to explain that this works really well with text or email.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
How many times have you been in a communication with someone and the text just read the wrong way? You ever had somebody just say, okay, or okay, when you all of a sudden just felt like, oh, that's just them being dismissive. They're not really taking me seriously. And automatically you just want to shut them off. You go, oh, okay, fine. I don't have to be like that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Those moments you're caught off guard by something that wasn't nice. Do you say something? Do you not say something? What do you say? All that and more coming right up. The next time someone makes a rude comment towards you, here's what I want you to do. Number one, begin your response with the phrase, did you mean? It's a question of intent. We're going to go into detail on that. Did you mean?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Easy way to check that is for you to text, did you mean for that to be short? Did you mean for that to sound like you're upset? often they'll clarify that and say, no, no, no, no, I was just in the middle of something or I was during an errand, I was making a cup of coffee and I just wanted to let you know that I got the text.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
So often you can have this sense of giving grace to other people by just simply asking the question and setting up the phrase, did you mean? It can really put out arguments before they even start. And I also want you to dial in on passive-aggressive comments that are rude.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Passive-aggressive comments, as you know, they're not direct, meaning they don't feel comfortable in their personality to say things to your face. Instead, they will say them in a way that's kind of snarky and snide, off to the side, because they don't feel comfortable saying them directly to face-to-face. So here's what I mean.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Let's assume you're in a conversation with someone, and they make this comment. I mean, it'd be nice, you know, if somebody cared. And you both know it's aimed towards you, but instead they couched it in terms of it'd be nice if somebody cared.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
How you deal with that is you pull them out of their current environment, meaning you have to make them step back in the conversation, understanding what they just said. So if they were to make that comment, it would be nice if somebody cared. You respond with a question that checks them like this. It sounds like there's more to that. It sounds like there's more to that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
In that moment, you're pulling them out and they go, oh wait, what did I just say? And you're calling them to the mat in a way that says, what exactly are you trying to say? Do you understand what you just said? It sounds like there's more to what you're telling me. In other words, I'm catching this passive aggressive behavior and I'm not just going to let it fly by.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Another way to ask is, it sounds like you're having a hard day or it sounds like we need to have another discussion or we need to talk a little bit more. Using these phrases like, it sounds like, it seems like, and throwing things out there in a way that encourages them to talk more is going to get you a whole lot farther than just saying, oh, you're talking about me? You wish I cared?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Let me tell you about, that's going to just make it even worse. So instead, you're going to catch them with questions that say, it sounds like or it seems like. Okay, now my favorite. Number three is to respond with silence. But there is a trick, a technique that I like to do, and that is to count. You don't have to count, but it needs to last four seconds.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Four seconds is enough to be defined as a long pause, meaning if somebody were to make a rude comment towards you, you're going to look at them for four seconds. One, two, three, four. enough to give a look of almost puzzlement, as if you find it curious. And what you're doing in those four seconds is you're saying, I heard it, I listened to it,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I evaluated it and I have concluded that it is not worthy of a response from me. It's not something I'm even going to entertain. It's not something I'm even going to put back into this world. It is just going to fall aside. A nice idea that you can have in your mind, a mindset of it, as if you have a desk off to the side. What I talk with my clients is it's a council desk.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
You're an attorney, you're standing up and you have a council desk. When somebody gives you something that you don't want and you know it's rude, you take that piece of paper, that's their words, and without even looking on it, you set it to the side on the council table. As if you say, no, I know my truth. I know my presence. I know my purpose here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Number two, if it's a more passive aggressive type of rude comment. In other words, it's not directly at you. It's more off to the side. And you know and they know it was meant for you. We're going to have questions that check them. These are questions like, did I offend you in some way? Or are you doing all right? It sounds like you're having a hard day.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I'm going to take what you just said that I know to be rude because I've listened to it. I heard it. I considered it. I waited. And I'm just putting it right here on the council table. And that's the best way to handle those rude comments. Just nothing but silence. Okay, now we're at the portion of the episode where I get to read an email from a follower.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
If you are not already signed up, you can sign up there in the show notes for my newsletter. It's a weekly newsletter where I send out a communication tip once a week right to your inbox, short and sweet, typically three points. And I'm going to read one right now. So this one is from Amy. She's over in Paris. That's awesome. Y'all should be getting ready for the Olympics, right?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
The Olympics, I think, are starting like in a week. She says, hey, Jefferson, love your stuff. Thanks, Amy. I have a problem with a colleague who always emails very short sentences. I try not to take them personally, but I have a tough time with it. Is there something I can do to make her emails not so short? Amy, totally got you. You're not the only one that has this problem.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
In the business world, we value expediency, where we like everything to be very fast. We want very quick, short. You have Slack. You have different ways of instant messaging people. having very short, few word responses are pretty normal. But I, one, I commend you on not taking them personally because that's, that can go to a very, a negative spot, a dark place very quickly.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Here's what I want you to do. Like just what we talked about earlier in this episode, you can use, did you mean? So if you were to reply to something, if she said something very short and you felt it to be dismissive or you felt it be a negative feeling inside you when you read that, You can always clear it up with a did you mean. Did you mean for that to sound short? Question mark. And send that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
What you don't want to do, what I don't want you to do, is to start assuming the intent. Then you start to just have an email that is... four sentences, six sentences long, where you all of a sudden have a paragraph where you're trying to just assume and guess what this person meant, or you're assuming a certain tone, and so you're sending it back to this person in a negative light, don't do that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Just very quickly say, did you mean for that to sound short? It should be cleared up pretty quickly. Another thing that you can do that it's going to depend on your relationship with this person is
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
is to ask them for more context can you go further can you go a little deeper into that ask those questions those probing questions that make them give you more information just like can have some more context with that question mark you don't need something long in detail to say hey i am so sorry which is over apologizing right like we talked about in the prior episode
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Instead of saying, hey, I'm so sorry. I'm not really sure exactly what you're saying. I wonder if you're asking this. Are you asking that? That's too much. Just keep it short to the point. You got this, Amy. Okay, I got time for another one. This one is from Paul in Arizona. Paul says, hey Jefferson, love your stuff, man. Thanks, Paul. Appreciate it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
There are ways that you can check them without coming across like you're also wanting to be rude. And number three, my personal favorite response to a rude comment is,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I have a mother that likes to make rude comments under her breath that are kind of passive aggressive. A lot of the times that family functions, I'm not sure how best to handle it. What do you suggest? Oh, Paul. Sorry about that. That's tricky. Mamas are tricky. A lot of emotion, a lot of history, a lot of feelings wrapped up in that. Here's what I can tell you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
If this is a mama that loves you, which I'm assuming that it is, you want to make sure that whatever you say is kind back. So when you're ugly to somebody and when you're rude, often what it does, like we discussed, is make them jump. So if you say something rude, well, now she feels like she's justified in saying something a little bit more direct. That's not so under her breath.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
And you have to be also careful of the context. You have family around, maybe other kids around, so you want to be careful of that. Real quick way, if she's making these passive aggressive comments, is that rule number two, step number two, where you get to say, there sounds like there's more to that, mom. Mom, it sounds like there's more to what you're saying.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Or ask the question, is there more to what you're saying? When you're asking that question, is there more? It's you not just taking her comment as something offensive for you to all automatically get defensive about. Instead, you're taking a moment to be curious about what she said and And diving deeper into, I want to know more because I can tell this is coming from a place that is unresolved.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
is nothing at all you respond with absolute silence but there's a technique and a trick on how to do it correctly and here's the thing about rude comments they're tests there are ways for the other person to test and assess what your temperature is can they get a reaction out of you or not. So I want you to pretend it's like a card game. You have a set of cards, they have a set of cards.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
I can tell this is coming from a place that's deeper than what we're talking about. So when you have that moment, just check her by bringing her out of that environment and say, it sounds like there's something else that we need to discuss first. And often that will take care of it altogether.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
But bottom line is, depending on the context, and of course, because it's your mother, you want to make sure that you approach a situation with a lot of grace and a lot of patience. So what are we going to do the next time that someone makes a comment that is rude toward you? Number one, you're going to remember the did you mean. The did you mean for that to sound rude?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
Did you mean for that to hurt my feelings? You're going to find a way to be a mirror so that they can hear what they've said and see if they're going to clarify it and fix it and that will often remove the argument. You can also, when we're talking about number two, passive aggressive comments, check them by pulling them out of their current environment to say it seems like or it sounds like.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
It sounds like you're having a hard day. It seems like there's more to what you're saying. Getting them to come to bring to light what they're really trying to say. And number three, of course, anybody can do it, and that's to say nothing. Count in your head four seconds and then continue on with your day. And that's how to handle rude comments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
On today's episode, it is all about what to say when someone belittles you, when they try to say something to put you down, to hurt you. What do you say and how do you make sure that your own integrity stays intact? When somebody is belittling you, the first thing that I want you to do is number one, make them say it again. That's right. I want you to make them say it again.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Best Communication Advice from 2024
That means you're going to tell them, I need you to say that again. I need you to repeat that. When you make them say it again, they don't get that hit of dopamine that they're looking for. When somebody is belittling you to put you down, they're looking for that spike. To get them going, to have that feeling of control. We're not going to give them that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
If somebody came and erased my entire reputation in communication and I had to start all over from scratch, here's what I would do. On today's episode, I'm going to give you my three rules for building a communication legacy that lasts. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Communication touches every single thing, whether it's at work, how you're doing your job, how you manage other people, your life at home, from the boardroom to the living room, communication touches everything. So when it comes to you building your own legacy, your reputation, what I hope and my prayer for you is that one, you're going to remember that every word matters, and it starts today.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Okay, if my life was on a big whiteboard, and somebody came with a rag and just wiped it off, and I had to start all over in building a reputation in how I'm going to communicate and make people feel, this is what I would do. Here is my blueprint if I had to start all over from scratch. You ready? Number one, I'm going to speak as if every word matters. I'm going to talk as if every word matters.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
That's the key. Nobody has to erase anything. You can actually start today. You can start today. I can start today. Everything you want to change can be found in the next conversation. You just choose to use better words. Understand every word matters and use words that uplift you, that are more positive. Be very intentional how you give compliments to people and mean them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Share that act of kindness. Two, show up with consistency. Have those signature habits that you are known for and understand that your tone is your trademark for everyone you talk to. And three, welcome the difficult conversations. When you always avoid them, when you always put them off, are you... hesitate to say the right thing because you're afraid to disappoint them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
That does not help anybody, and it only hurts yourself, especially in the long run. And if you remember, you're doing it for really two people in your life, either your younger self or your older self. For the sake of those two people in your life, you can picture them in your mind. I want you to build a communication and a reputation that's going to make both of them proud. Yeah? All right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
As always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Now, you might think, Jefferson, that sounds like a lot. It's not. I'm not saying you have to go, just a minute, let me think about it every single time you talk. That's not it. It is a mindset. It is a mindset that what you say today, today, affects everything about who you will be tomorrow, how you'll be talked tomorrow.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
In my book, The Next Conversation, one of the first things I teach in The Essentials is that your words have a ripple effect, meaning what you say today affects everything else in your life. Communication touches everything. How you talk to the person behind the counter or the waiter or waitress affects how they talk to their family when they go home, how you talk to your friends
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Or people that are strangers affect what they think about you. How you talk at work affects how you move up in your job. How you talk to your kids affects how they will talk to their kids. People you will never meet are affected by your words today. And that's including words you say to yourself. I came across something on social media that really hit me hard. I wish I took a screenshot of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
But the essence was this. Every time you act... You're trying to make two people proud, or you're trying to honor two people. That's your younger self and your older self. And that was almost a mind-blowing concept to me, of when I choose to say something, I am saying it sometimes for my younger self, to stand up for myself, to make them proud of where we've come. You've made it. You're okay.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
If you're listening to this podcast or watching it online, I'm going to ask you to go to the place, whether it's with your thumb or on a mouse, go to the place where it says subscribe or follow or where there's a heart or a comment. I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. Subscribe. Why?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
And also what I say and do for my older self, the person who's going to have to live with the consequences, the person who's going to have to pay the cost. So it was just a great way of kind of putting a...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
a spectrum on it, the younger self, the five-year-old, eight-year-old me, I can see it with my big bottle glasses, and my older self, who hopefully still has hair, what am I doing for that person that I could be choosing to do today? Every word matters. Your words have a ripple effect. And so you say, okay, what's the practical effect of that, Jefferson? What do you do? Here's what I would do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
I would understand that when I speak, I'm going to speak in a positive way, meaning I'm going to use positive words. Why? Because then I will be feeling more positive to myself, meaning I'm giving myself positive words and I'm sending out positive words. If I'm being generous with my positive, uplifting kindness, I'm going to receive that back. And it works in a loop.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
You know those people that go, oh, they're so nice, they're so pleasant. You know why? Because they're generally nice and pleasant. They say nice and pleasant things. If you say, I really like that person, most likely what you mean is they said nice things to you. Rarely do we see the hidden act of kindness from someone. That's rare. Yes, actions can speak louder than words.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
They're not a replacement for them. It's your words. You remember how a friend talked to you when you were on the playground, when you were six years old, and if it brought you up or put you down. You remember it. You remember what your parents said. You remember how your grandparents treated you. Everybody has a memory that is tied to how people's words affected you. They remember it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
I can remember getting in trouble in PE, which was like our recess kind of class, because this kid and I got in a spat. And I remember the coach coming up and saying, sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you. And I thought, what an odd thing to say. I was like maybe seven. I just remember going, that's such a weird thing to say. That's just not true. Our words matter.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Our words truly matter. So when you choose to say uplifting things rather than negative things, you're going to start and build a legacy, a reputation that is built upon that. You choose the words that you want to make people feel. So your words are who you are. Put in a nutshell, what you say is who you are. People only experience you based on what comes out of your mouth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Because it tells the platforms that what you're listening to or what you're watching is valuable content. So from me to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
That's really how they base your entire personality. One of these days, every one of us, we're not going to be on this earth anymore. And the people that, when they are at your funeral, and you've been to funerals, all we think about...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
All we think about is how that person made us feel, these conversations that we had with them, these memories that are tied to words and expressions and feelings that are wrapped in conversation, communication. So I would first have the mindset that every single word matters, and I'm going to choose words that uplift. I'm going to choose words that are warm.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
I'm going to choose a tone that is going to uplift them. I like to say that your tone is your trademark. You say, okay, Jefferson, you sound a certain way. Maybe it's my voice makes people feel something or how I treat them. Everybody has a distinct, unique voice that I can never replicate. And you make people feel a certain way. Your tone is your trademark. So how do you want to be remembered?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Every single word matters. So choose words that serve you better. Choose words that serve the other people better. Cool? Two, second thing I would do is consistency. Meaning I'm going to show up every single time in that same mindset. Let me give a practical application of that. When we get in the conversation, what typically happens is we only think about the words.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
this is my promise that i'm going to continue to deliver the best quality content that i can i really try to do quality over quantity and give you stuff that's practical easy and you can use right away and if you find it useful i'm going to ask you to follow or subscribe thank you
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
We don't think about the feelings after. We only think about the current present moment. We don't think about what comes next. We just think of right now. We don't think about episode eight. We only think about the trailer. We only think about the pilot episode. We're not thinking about what episode 9 is going to look like or episode 10.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
So it's very easy for us to say things that hurt or say things that are flippant because we are not paying attention to what comes after. Consistency means I'm going to be very careful that when I say things, I'm going to remember the next moment because I have to continue to show up in that consistent form. What that says is I want you to think of conversations sometimes as you're watching them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
You're watching them happen as if you're in the audience with popcorn and you're watching the conversation. You're going to ask yourself, will I be proud sometimes? of my performance? Will I be proud of how I reacted? Will I be proud of myself? I can't control a lick of what the other person says or does. Not a thing. They have free will. They can do and say whatever they want.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
But will I be proud of me? Will I be proud of me? I can remember my parents getting on to me and my siblings, and I would say something, well, my sister did X, Y, and Z, and they're going, I'm not talking to your sister, I'm talking to you. You can't control anything about how they're reacting. I can only tell you about how you're behaving right now. It's that same kind of concept.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
You can't control what anybody else is doing. Will you be proud of what you are doing in that instance? Consistency, what I would even, you want to take this even further? There's something in my mind that I kind of have as signature habits. I would create a signature habit. And that is, what are you going to be known for? and what you continually show up to do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
So maybe your signature habit is, I'm somebody who's very quick to apologize. I'm somebody who, if somebody wants to get in line, absolutely, I'm going to let them in. My signature quality is that I don't mind if somebody merges right in front of me, go right ahead.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
My signature, my trademark is how I am going to always end the conversation with a compliment or how I shower people with compliments that are genuine or how I end a conversation with, is there anything else I can do to help you? What is your signature quality? action, that it's a habit, that you can continually be as yours. Everybody does one.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Today's podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth, and I love having Cozy Earth as a sponsor because, well, I use this stuff. I wear it almost every other day, and their sheets are on my bed right now. It's probably the most comfortable bed sheets I've ever used. My wife loves her pajama sets. In fact, my mom, she has heard about it so much. She's getting her own pajama sets. I'm gifting her one.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
You probably once already come up to your mind of like, this is what I feel like I do every single time. It's become your trademark. It's your signature habit. And these are important because they show up as your continued legacy when you're building that. And that's part of consistency. So number one, we talked about using words that are more uplifting and using positive words.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Number two, what I would do is make sure I'm solidified on a signature habit. For me, what I like as my signature habit is I want to feel, make people feel very warm. That is my habit. This is what I love to do. I talk the fastest I ever talk, really, when I am in my car, on the social media, or on a podcast because you have to get information out pretty quickly. In life...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
I'm a little bit slower, just a little bit slower. And maybe you're listening and going, Jefferson, you already talk pretty slow, man. Well, my default is even slower than this. And I like to make people feel really warm. And so I am going to give compliments. I'm going to show gratitude. I'm going to let the other person be first. I like the acts of service first.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
even when I'm especially in conversation. And that's how I have been raised, and that's what relates to me and resonates with me. So that's what I would do. Number two is consistency. Number three, if I had to start all over from scratch, I'm going to practice the hard conversations. I'm going to welcome the hard talks.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
When there's a difficult conversation, I'm going to have this mindset of, okay, awesome, yes, this is my chance. Rather than having the mindset of, I don't know, I mean, no, we can just put this off. No, it's okay, don't worry about it. And finding that I'm always backpedaling, I'm walking on eggshells, absolutely not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
If I want to build a communication legacy of how I want to be remembered, I want to be seen as somebody who is attacking somebody in the best way possible, difficult conversations, as if it's something I am excited about doing. Not in a negative way, but I'm understanding that the difficult conversations are the best opportunity to build the best relationships. Period.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
You think of anybody who's important in your life. Most likely it's somebody who you've had very difficult conversations with. Your best friend. They know you the best. Your spouse. A sibling. A parent. Whatever it is. These are people who've been in it with you. The people who've been in the trenches with you. And when you've come out on the other side of it, you're much closer.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Difficult forms bonds. Always. So if you want... a deeper relationship with someone, then you have to have a deeper tolerance for difficult conversations. If you always want surface level conversations, I'll show you a surface level relationship. You're never going to dig that deep with someone.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
So when you welcome the difficult conversations, better things happen in your life, especially if I had to start all over, it's practicing them. It's practicing them. They take effort. They take time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
The strategies that I teach in my book, The Next Conversation, the strategies that we teach in my membership and in my newsletter, these are all things that I am trying to train you to say, practice the difficult conversations because the better you get at them,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
The better quality you have in life, the more people are looking to you as the emotionally intelligent, the more people are going to look to you as the leader, as the safe one, as the secure one. As part of my, I guess this would be my number one, every word matters, I am all about calm energy. Maybe you picked up on that. I love calm energy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
She's very excited about it. And I just love it. I love it when I travel. If you are like me and you like to wear comfortable stuff, you can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. I promise you won't be disappointed.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
That's the kind of thing I want to put out in the world. That's the thing I want to be consistent with rule number two in how I spread my vibe, my energy. I like calm energy, not hype, not being crazy, not being aggressive, just the sense of calm.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
comfort and calm and feeling like i'm always in the pocket when i feel like i'm giving people ease that that fills me up when i feel like they can just be calm with me and just sit and give them security and peace and rest for a little bit in the conversation that's the kind of stuff that touches me so i've i had to build all over i'm going to make sure that the difficult conversations are things i never shy away from ever ever ever ever that does not mean that i'm not going to handle them well
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
And there's going to be times I'm not going to handle them well. It is trial and error like anything else because each person is different. Each person is different. I can't have a difficult conversation and apply the same rules to everybody. Everybody has a different personality.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
So if I had to build it all from scratch, I'm going to welcome the difficult conversations because those are the things that... life is about. That's the thing that grows everyone. These are the things of what makes life beautiful.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
You have the hard conversations because when you come out on the other side of them, there are just better things that you feel like you can be really proud of yourself about. When it comes to difficult conversations, another thing that I would make sure that I do, and we talk about this in rule number three of my book, is creating your manual.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
Rather than giving somebody my remote control for my emotions, I'm going to start my manual very early. Meaning these are my do's and my don'ts, my instructions, my rules of the game for how to communicate with me and how I'm going to communicate with others. That might mean I need to set aside my extremes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
I will always do X, Y, and Z. I will never X, Y, and Z. When I have a, I do not accept, I do not allow, I do not X, I mean, you name it. I'm going to have my, my encyclopedia here of where I need to have a reference guide of if you want to talk to me, here's my manual. So instead of this, you can't talk to me that way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
My manual, if you go to page 8, line 3, paragraph D, you're going to see I don't accept that tone. You hear how that's very different? That's the kind of thing I would start to build right away is making sure I have my manual. I'm not going to people please. I'm not going to feel like I am just getting walked over, that I can't speak or be assertive enough.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Communication Habits That Build Your Reputation
I'm going to understand that my manual is something that I'm going to use to my strength. So welcome the difficult conversations. When it comes to building a legacy in communication, you understand that communication touches everything, where you want to be in your life. And if... I would be wagering to bet that if you're listening to this podcast, you know that to be true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Hey everybody, welcome to a special episode and Ask Me Anything podcast episode where we're going to go over some questions that were asked in response to my newsletter that I send out every week. Questions about some romantic relationship stuff, how to be a better listener, and how to deal with liars. I'm ready to get right into it. You ready?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
i pretend as if at the end of it i'm going to take a a test an exam over remembering everybody's name and i just it all it does is make me very more aware of paying attention to people's names instead of trying to be passive about it it's that same concept instead of just passively listening I'm trying to be the student. I'm trying to hang on every single word. That means I'm asking questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
I'm not trying to push statements. I'm asking questions about how did that feel. Well, when you said this, what did you mean by this? And I'm using the exact words that they use because it helps train you on being a better listener. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a new attorney, a very brand new, just got licensed attorney, asking questions of a witness and
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
This first one is Mac from Michigan. Here's Mac's question. My spouse carries a lot of stress from work. When he's very stressed out, me asking a question can trigger a reactionary response. All I can say is, I'm just asking a question, and then I shut down. How can I respond better? Mack, I understand because as soon as I saw your email, this hits home. This hits home for me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
and all they're doing is reading their next question. They're not even listening to the gold that that witness is giving them. The attorneys you're scared of are the ones that have their questions and just put them off to the side, and they're in right here talking to your witness. That's when you know they're not even paying close attention to their questions. They know their questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
They know where they want to go. They're all in on listening. That makes you a lot more skilled attorney and just a more skilled communicator. So that would be my advice there, David, from Florida. Thank you very much for that question. That was awesome. Question number three. This is Pamela from Washington. Pamela says, Please address how to handle what to say when you're dealing with a liar.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Lying right to your face even when you present proof to them disinferiorates me beyond belief. Thank you so much, Jefferson. Pamela, I'm sorry that you're dealing with that. Here's what I want to say at the outset. If you've presented proof to someone and you know,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
that they're lying, and you're showing them that they're a lie, and they're going, no, that's not me, sorry, and they're still going to lie to your face, despite the proof, that is not somebody you want in your life, Pamela. That is not somebody you need to safeguard. That is not somebody that you want to be around. Because what happens is you end up lying to yourself.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Lying to yourself that they can be fixed. Lying to yourself that this is a good person, this is a moral person, this is someone with integrity, this is someone with character. You're lying to yourself that they can be different. And lying to yourself is one of the worst things of all. So I don't want you to do that, Pamela. That would be my first thought for you there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
For anybody who's listening, if you're like Pamela and you've shown proof to somebody and they're still acting like nothing's wrong and you know them to be a liar, then you're lying to yourself if you continue to keep this person into your life, or at least as close as they are. You need to keep distance from these kind of people to preserve your peace. Two, anytime I've dealt with liars...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Time is their enemy. They don't like you to slow down interactions. They want the quick buy-in. I want to give a lie. They want you to buy into it really, really quick. That's why liars often are very fast talkers, fast talkers. Anytime you slow down the interaction, they don't like that. So I've had it plenty of times when I'm deposing witnesses and I know that they're lying to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
How do I know? Because I have proof. I have evidence that they're lying. I haven't showed them yet, but I know that they're lying. And they'll start talking to me and they'll say something I know to be a lie and And then right after they're finished telling the lie, I go really quiet, like awkwardly long quiet. And the liar will just, they'll start to wilt. They get nervous.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
They start talking to themselves. They start having conversations for me. They'll start having conversations like, well, why would you think I would do that? Or they might, what we call down here crawfish, they might start to back up. They might start to back off the lie. They might say, well, I mean, sometimes. I mean, sometimes. I don't do it all the time, but maybe. I mean, I could have.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
I mean, it was pretty dark. And they try to start to... resurrect and fix their story. Or they're asking for input from me to try and fix their melting sandcastle. They might say something like, well, what do you think happened? I mean, why would you think I wouldn't? Because they're wanting to hear me
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So they can take it, spin another lie, and try and fix the wall that's starting to break on their lie. So time is to your advantage. Third is use little phrases that is going to clue them in that you're not believing it. These are phrases that I like to use, and this is something feels off. They might say, what do you think? And I go, I don't know. Something feels off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
I can't put my finger on it. I don't know. Something feels off. And it will just absolutely drive them nuts. Or I'll say, I need to come back to this conversation. Give it a good pause and say, I need to come back to this conversation. I've done it in a deposition before where I said, I'm going to come back to this question. I think I'm going to come back to this question.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So I am a practicing attorney, and then I have this communication advice that I love to share, and it's a passion. And then my wife is also a practicing attorney. She does education law, totally different world than me. But when we get home... Yes, it is. You're like any other husband and wife.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
And I've just seen them go, why don't I like, please don't. They just know I'm not, I'm not buying it. So it is you standing your ground and you say, I'm using short little phrases and questions rather than going, that's not true. That's not what happened. You're lying. You're not telling the truth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
You see how, when I'm doing that, all I'm doing is just giving more power, more control to them for them to do something with it. They're trying to pull that emotional energy, that emotional attention out of you to do something with it. And the more, The more an argument they can make with you, it's just more where there's smoke, there's fire.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So if they can make enough smoke and go, look, it obviously happened. We just argued about it. We just spent 30 minutes. And it's almost as if the more you talk about it and the more you deny it and the more they deny it, the more that it actually existed. And that's not what you want. So slow it down.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
If, of course, you've presented proof, Pamela, and they're still going to lie about it, then they are a liar. And that is not somebody you need to have around you, Pamela. All right? So I just want you to be careful and protect yourself. All right. We had Mac. We had David. We had Pamela. These are all awesome questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
If you would like, ask me anything questions, and I answer these live Q&A type things. Please put in the comments whether or not you like this stuff or not. I'm going to try and start mixing this up. I have a lot of fun with it. That's why I wanted to talk about it. because these are real people with real problems. And you know what? I am too. We all are real people with real problems.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm going to ask you to, as always, like, subscribe it. If you have any questions, just put them in the comments. I read them. Or if you have any topic suggestions, let me know. My book, The Next Conversation, is still out. It's going to be out for a long time. Very excited about it. It is doing very well. It's a book that I have poured so much into.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So you can always find the links down there in the show notes, the next conversation, how to argue less and talk more. As always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
There are questions that she gives me as soon as I come in the door, or there's times when I'm asking her questions. So I'm about to wade into some topics, y'all, that you may not agree with. You might go, ah, that's not for me. That's fine. What I'm about to tell you is what works for me. This is not a replacement for couples therapy. It's not a replacement for any kind of therapy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Let's be clear about that. So, Mac, this is what... Let me give you first a perspective of what could be happening to your husband. And I'm just saying this from my point of view. Whenever I come in the door, I have finished my day. I'm driving. I get home. Finishing a whole lot of high-level tasks. Tasks that big decisions for my clients, big decisions for me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. I'm going to ask you to please, if you would, find the subscribe or like or heart wherever you're listening or whatever platform you're listening to. I'm going to ask you to click it because I'm giving you a promise, and that promise is to make you a better communicator.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
big things that I took a lot of processing, a lot of mental energy. Maybe I switched between doing a podcast, dealing with some issue at the office in my law firm, And even switching between tasks, it just drains my battery really quickly. And when I get home and I walk in the door, and if the first thing is questions, like, hey, did you remember to call the plumber?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Hey, what do you want to do for dinner? What do you want the plane to be for next Saturday? It feels like I am back into decision mode. Let me tell you why. As a husband, this is not Jefferson Communicator guy. This is Jefferson husband. I feel like I am going to fail.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
my my family in that situation because i'm i'm mentally not there the questions even though i know mac you ask questions that are totally reasonable their normal questions questions that deserve an answer that are necessary or they're just out of curiosity sometimes the questions feel like demands in that moment i'm already overstimulated as soon as i walk in the kids immediately want to wrestle they want to play i have to be in dad mode
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
And I'm just having a struggle to get out of that mode for a second. And the questions feel like demands. They feel like a pop quiz. And if the answer is I don't know, you know what, I forgot to call this guy. That feels like an exam. I just failed it. I'm getting judgment now that I'm a failure, that I missed it. I should have called him. I meant to call. It didn't happen.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
No, she's not putting that on me. I'm putting that on me. maybe it's another question about what we want to do next weekend. Now I have to, it feels like an ambush of like, I don't, I don't know the right answer. And so if I, anytime, if it's did you, or what do you want? And I'm having to say, I don't know, that feels like I am not meeting this invisible threshold. Again, that's not there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
It's just all on me. Now, some of you might be listening and go, Jefferson, just get over it. They're just easy questions. Can you just be a grown adult? Yeah, I understand that. I get it. I'm just, I'm being honest with you. And there are times that getting a lot of questions right at home when I've done big level things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
And as soon as I get home, and my brain tells me these are lower level things. I don't mean in terms of not a priority. That's not what I mean. I mean some things are not needing to be decided in this moment. And so I just want to push them off because I'm still overstimulated. I haven't come out of work mode. I'm trying to get into dad, husband mode, family mode. And that's tough.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
I don't mean this as just a husband. My wife is a working wife, full-time attorney. She experiences a lot of the same things. If she comes home and I happen to be home first and I'm peppering her, it's the same exact thing where we just go, can we just not? Can we just please? It's very overwhelming in that moment. I'm telling you this, Mac, as hopefully a little bit of insight.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Maybe some of you who are married or have significant others might be nodding your head a little bit and going, yeah, I understand that. The last thing I want to do when I get home is feel like I have to answer 100 questions when this is this should be the place where my nervous system gets to calm down. This is the place where I don't have to make a decision.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
For however long you listen to my podcast, whether it's just a few episodes, if you make this part of your daily routine, you will be better. a better communicator. And that's my promise to you. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth. One thing that I got in the other day that I received was a bath sheet from them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Can I just please just let me get out of this mode first. So I don't mean to say that you should never ask questions. That's not it, Mac. Timing is very important here. So I'm giving you a little bit of insight to what might be happening or being experienced from your spouse. Now, how do you fix this? How do we flip that? How do you ask the questions? Again, this is what we do in my house.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
This does not mean it's what you should do in your house. This is what works. We have a three-question rule. That means after three questions, we're stopping. It can wait. So that means we prioritize the questions, makes us think about the rank of questions as soon as we walk in the door.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So if it's not something that's very important, it's something that's going to be pushed off, meaning we're not going to ask more than three questions. And I know in my world, if I get more than three questions, I am ready to... I feel like all of a sudden I'm being avalanched. So that's, that's how it happens. I'll tell you, it helps also to have a routine for me. If I go home,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
walk in the door and I change clothes. I hug all my babies and I get out of my work clothes. It doesn't even have to be work clothes. Just get into a different outfit. It helps my mind get more into, okay, I'm home. This is me. I'm not having my phones down. I'm not looking at social media. I'm not thinking about some kind of post. Any of that. It helps me get out of that mindset.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
there's another thing that helps and it is we are very communicative about the time she's good at saying
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
not now this is what she'll say she'll say not now but later can we start thinking about what we want the plan to be for this saturday or if you want your family to come over or if you want to go x y and z and that helps me and her to know that we're not having this conversation now she's not trying to force this conversation on me now i'm sure just like you mac you're not trying to force that conversation now you're just being curious you want to ask questions
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
it's letting us know that this is going to be a topic, but we don't have to talk about it now. Also, on my end, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I will say, is this something we have to talk about this moment? Or is this something we could talk about later? Is this something that needs to be decided right now? Nine times out of ten, the answer is no.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So just having that communication is crucial for us and how we're doing. Because we have two kids. They're the seven of five. So both of the time we can't even have adult conversation, real conversation until the kids are in bed, which means we're exhausted. The best conversations we have is usually if we can try and find some time mid-morning to have a phone call or lunch.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
They do awesome bath towels, not only beds, bed sheets, but also bath towels. This is, I'm over, I'm like six foot one. I am six foot one, not like I am. And this bath sheet comes up almost to my shoulders. It's awesome. You should check them out. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Or maybe we have a babysitter and we can actually have full length conversations without somebody waking up. Somebody needs this with kids. So I know it's a stage and we're enjoying it all, but that's just part of it. So for you also, for you not to shut down, what's going to help you?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Is having this conversation with your spouse saying, I'm noticing or it seems that when you get home and I'm asking questions, you don't like that. What would you prefer that I do? What would be more helpful? Because again, the questions you're asking, they're not like they're dumb questions. They're questions that need to happen. They're questions of curiosity. They're questions of caring.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
They're questions of this needs to happen for this reason. They might be necessary questions. And if you have this communication, this conversation with them of what's going to be helpful, when can I bring this up? Because there's certain things you can't just continue to push off. You can't continue to push off. That would be my recommendation. That's at least what we do in my household.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
We have a three-question rule until later, and we're very quick to say, is this something we need to talk about now? And already knowing if each one of us have had a very busy day, the issues that are going to take priority, because sometimes we can't even get into a conversation without somebody needing help. you know, a cheese stick, uh, or asking for something to drink.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So that's just kind of, that's part of it. But give you some insight there. It's, it's for me, any additional questions when I come in the door and I know she and I've had this conversation, They feel like additional demands, like a pop quiz. And if I don't have the answer, I start to feel like a failure. And then I get more overstimulated and it just gets worse.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
So that would be my recommendation for you, Mac. That was a great question. Question number two. Hey, Jefferson, I've heard... You talk about how your content on improving listening skills is your least popular. I'm actually very interested in that topic. What are some ways to be a better listener? David, you're exactly right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Anytime I've made a video or put any kind of content out on how to be a better listener, you know how many people like it? hardly anybody. It's always my least viewed video because nobody wants to be a better listener. We want them to be a better listener. We want you to be a better listener, but we never want to be that person. Uh, and funny how that happens.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
My most viewed content is always how to handle the toxic person, the mean person, what you can do to, to hold your ground with him. It's never how to be a better listener or be more empathetic or be more understanding. Um, That's the way the world works. David, how to be a better listener. This is my overview for this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
There's something what they call active listening, which I think is kind of a weird name for it. But they term active listening when somebody goes, mm-hmm.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
yeah oh oh right right and they just they continually start to almost talk in non-verbal whenever they're listening to you that i find me personally i find annoying it can go too far it can go it can definitely go too far where you feel like this isn't really sincere now i've been on plenty of podcasts and the other person's like right oh that's that's so true that i find to be completely genuine
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
That's completely genuine. It's when you can go too far with it. So there's that point of active listening, which is really just a way of engaging you, continuing to give you something to do while you're listening, while you're absorbing the information. So that's something I don't find unhelpful, but I want you to know that is out there. Here's what I would recommend to be a better listener.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. I have a newsletter, in case you didn't know, where I send out a weekly communication tip right into your inbox totally for free. And in response, every once in a while, in fact daily, I will get questions from people. I've pulled some of these that I wanted to talk with you about. They're awesome people that have awesome questions. I want to get right to them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
One is mirroring. It's very easy. You take the last little bit of somebody's sentence, and then you ask it back to them. So let's say I'm telling you this phrase. Yesterday, I really just didn't feel like somebody was listening to me. It was just a really hard day.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
you would reply hard day or you had a hard day or sounds like you had a hard day you go yeah no i i did i had a really a really hard day and then we'll keep talking you grab the last little two to three words in somebody's sentence you just repeat it back to them now you don't want to continue to do that because then it'll be almost robotic, like, what's wrong with you?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
You're not engaging in conversation with me. But it's very helpful in getting you to listen. Second thing I like to do with listening is getting very disciplined on the practice of refusing to allow myself to think of a response while they're talking. That's the hardest thing to do, but once you master it, it is actually very peaceful. Let me explain.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
If you're saying something to me, David, and the whole time I'm just thinking of my response, I cannot do two things at once. I will shut you out. I'll just shut you out.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
You know how that feels when you hear somebody talking and you kind of, it's like listening to them in the water or having head muffs on, ear muffs on, where you can hear it and they're just like this and they're talking, but you're more concerned with what you're about to say and you miss out. on what they're saying. Except my wife says she can do both.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
She says she can multitask, and that's true. I don't have that. I don't have that ability. So it's a practice of totally emptying your mind and just going, nope, nope. You have to almost deny yourself thinking you have a response until they are done talking. Once they are done using your breath, taking a time to think and then give your response. Sounds easy. Holds.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
whole lot harder in practice i know it sounds easy using your breath even if you say now i'm i'm listening or i'm thinking i'm thinking and then you give your response you will be a better listener for that number three what i also like to do sometimes depending on the situation is i will
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
almost challenged myself as if I am going to have to take an exam over everything that was just said in this conversation. Now, I don't do that in a negative way. I don't do that in some kind of punishing way. It just makes me tune in on making sure I'm really committed to knowing and remembering what is being said. Over the weekend when I was in Denver, I did a speaking deal in Denver.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In
It was a wonderful time. We were randomly talking about – a group of us were talking about how to better remember people's names. And one of the tips that I gave was I will often – not only do you try and use their name often in conversation once I meet them, it is –
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review or a like or a star. It really matters and it means a lot to me and I look at it all.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
What would you say to the person listening right now is one habit that they can work towards in their life right now to simply improve their communication?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
As soon as your book came out, I immediately ran and got it because I just don't find that there's that many resources on communication. I want to make sure that I hit this question that stuck out with me in the book, and is that the most persuasive people don't argue their point. They ask great questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
you suddenly become much more likely to listen to me even on a subconscious level and that looping for understanding that's entirely a habit yes i i i could not agree more listen i care about you if you're listening to this podcast i care about you and because i care about you as somebody who also loves communication and conversations i know that you can't just have all these conversations in your head yeah i can give you advice but sometimes you need
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
more. You need to talk to somebody else who's trained in helping guide you through this. And that's where therapy comes in. I go to therapy. It's incredibly helpful. And a sponsor of this podcast is BetterHelp. What they do, it's an online platform where they can connect you with online therapists. All you have to do is fill out a quick questionnaire and they match you with a therapist.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And if it doesn't work out with somebody else, they can easily switch you to somebody new. But the and diving deeper for better answers. Because conversations come with questions. Therapy comes with answers. You can go to BetterHelp.com slash Jefferson Fisher for a discount on your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash Jefferson Fisher.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
To put it in a nutshell, how I interpret this is that for anybody listening, number one, if you can, ask a question instead of the response. So anytime somebody's sharing something with you, we make a mistake when we all of a sudden start talking about ourselves.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Like Charles was saying, you're just kind of waiting to be like, no, actually, you know what I did the other day, instead of actually listening to somebody. You can cure all that simply by asking one question. One that I like to ask is, is asking them, what was your favorite part? Because everybody has a favorite part. I do this with my kids, and I'm sure you have the same thing with yours.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Day's done, and if I say, how was your day? It was good. It was fine. Yeah. What'd you learn? I don't know. Nothing. I was cool. It was okay. Right. But if I ask, what was your favorite part? they almost always come up with something that was like, ah, this is the thing that is my favorite part.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And if you can just ask that one question, it makes them feel like you're actually what they said has value instead of trying to step on their story or step on what they're trying to share, because you're really trying to be relatable. But in some sense, you're taking that away. So asking just one question and then almost repeating back what they said
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
to make you feel that connection is just a brilliant strategy. And it works every time. I mean, I've seen it work every time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
We really do. We really do. Anytime we get to...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
i think talk about the emotion behind the words we're really searching for that i i that's exactly i hear you on that a thousand percent because when you when you say what's your favorite part it's not something practical it's not saying what you know knowledge did you receive it's a being a favor or having a favor it's a feeling of that's exactly right this is what i gravitated towards the most
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And if I could write that down and put it on my mirror every day, that's exactly what I would do. Can you tell us more about what that means to you and how people can, people listening to it right now, how can they apply it in their every day from the kitchen to the living room to their workplace, asking great questions?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
I find that even if somebody's telling me, let's say, about their hard day, You just say, how was your day? And they go on and on and on. And you simply just say, that sounds hard. They're like, oh, yes. That's all they needed. That's all they needed. They're complaining about what somebody did to them. You go, yeah, that sounds rude. Isn't it? That's all they're wanting, the feeling.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That sounds hard.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. I mean, all of that, it, it's much more powerful than just the words themselves. In your book, you have a section, in fact, several different parts where you talk about jury deliberations. Yeah. And I got into that and I was like, all right, here we go. Because I... Of course, in my legal background, I love this kind of stuff.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Also, if you've never seen the movie 12 Angry Men, fantastic movie that I think illustrates a lot of the points that were being made. And what I took away from it is that anytime you take 12 people, they go back to do any kind of jury deliberation, whether it's civil case, criminal case. There has to be a foreman, somebody who's kind of the ringleader.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
A lot of the times that happens to be a teacher because teachers just naturally are gathering people. Believe it or not, in trial, when you're picking a jury, most people won't pick teachers. Because most people tend to go the teacher's way. And so if a teacher is on the jury, they are very opinionated and they're very good at teaching others to match their opinion.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
It's too much of a risk on a jury to have a teacher because you don't know, are they going to go for your side or the other side? Right. They're on your side. Great. That means most people are going to be on your side. It's just so funny how a lot of times teachers are very polarizing because they are very quick and they pick up on a lot of different things and they're great at.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
just teaching, and juries, and jury deliberations, they'll teach other people. And so some people like that, some people don't.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. So first off, for anybody hearing, he said, in Texas, we call that and it's what it is. It's the process of asking a jury questions. So if you ever got a jury summons, you go into the room. And there's a whole bunch of prospective jurors that they call the veneer. And attorneys get to ask them questions. And then the attorneys get to pick the people they want to be in the jury.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
It's a whole process that's supposed to push in fairness. Now, the question is, do you think that there's a way that we can kind of sense this person's personality, which way they're going to go, what's their temperature? I would say yes. So what I like to do and what I've gotten good at is you use a prospective juror almost as an early witness. So I might ask a question.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
I've done it before where, you know, the officer, let's say at an accident, the officer really didn't pay attention to my client. He was going to get talking to other people in the accident, but never really asked my client any questions. And so I asked the jury, have you ever been in an accident? Hands raised. Are police officers involved? Yes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Have you ever had it to where a police officer really didn't ask you anything? A few people answered, so I get to talk to them. Well, how did that make you feel? Well, I kind of felt dismissed by that. Okay, noted. And so anybody else ever felt dismissed in a case where you felt like you weren't hearing your point out and you knew what you knew and some other hands were raised?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And you kind of get to use that person as a – as a voice almost. Oh, that's interesting. To influence the other people's opinion. And it's putting a temperature and tone to where my position is going to be. And then if I'm going to try and get that person on the jury, most likely they're not. If they answer, if you want to get knocked out of a jury, all you have to do is talk a lot.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
You're almost guaranteed to not be on because you've already shown you're very opinionated. So that means one side isn't going to like you. But that means when I'm asking my questions to the witness, I'm going to ask those, have you ever felt... You know what I mean? I'm bringing that theme up again every single time. So it's trying to, it's those little things like that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's really interesting. I love it. And what you do so well in the book is you pull together these concepts of how people interact. What you called, I believe it was like a quiet negotiation of who's going to talk first. How are we going to... how are we going to set the structure around how we are to communicate? And I was curious what you see as our daily application of the quiet negotiation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
So if you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. My new book, The Next Conversation is officially out. You can find the links down in the show notes. This is a book that's going to give you not just what to say, but how to say it and give you tools immediately to help give you the power to change everything about your life simply by what you say next. I'm really proud of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. I'd love that point of there's this silence before the conversation that you're looking for clues, you're filling them out. Like maybe you meet somebody new for the first time and maybe y'all spent kind of 10 minutes around each other and you learned
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
What they're like, maybe there's somebody who has really dry humor or somebody that just kind of you silently kind of start roasting the other people in the room or maybe you start, you know, you or it could be on the other side. Somebody comes into your office and they're in tears. You know, it's about to be a very serious, confidential situation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
or when somebody leans in and is like, hey, real quick, just between me and you. It's like, hey, all of a sudden we've now zeroed in on each other of how we're going to communicate. So that feeling this person out, it's funny how we almost do that programmatically. Just we can tell.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
There's no words that need to be said, but I'm going to adjust my behavior simply by the energy that I'm matching with the other person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Thank you very much.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Thank you Thank you. Thank you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yes, absolutely. What I hear is this everyday small talk that most people feel anxious about. I don't want to ask a question. I don't want to be too much. You can have surface questions and deep questions, and the great communicators have a wonderful skill at making the deep questions sound just like the shallow ones.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's exactly where you're not having to feel like, what is your deepest desire? Tell me about your childhood. Like these things that I don't I don't know you. Is that is that the way you feel about it? Like if you're going to conversation and instead of this, what else? Question mark versus what else? Like you finding ways of sounding them, make them sound like a statement.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Everything's going well and I'm excited to share it with you. Also, if you're wanting to continue to practice your new communication skills, I'm going to encourage you to go to the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication, where a lot of exciting things are happening. I have a whole library of resources. I have an AI that can help answer texts and emails for you from that difficult coworker.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
I love that. Not asking about facts. Ask about how they feel. That's something that's immediately applicable that somebody could apply right now. And what I see, too, is in my line and work as an attorney, in cross-examination, when you're asking somebody questions, a lot of the time you can tell somebody. what they're wanting to talk about based on how they end their first sentence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Oh, that's interesting. When they end their answer. They might end their answer just a little bit short because they are trying to invite you to let them in just a little bit more, to talk just a little bit more. So it's very telling how... They end their answer. They might end it on like a cliffhanger or somebody might say, you know, yeah. And so they might they might end it with it. Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
So, you know, that's. And they've kind of hit a dead end. They're not sure how to get there. And so they're inviting you to kind of help me, walk me through that door.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's so funny. Yeah, so my grandfather would have this habit of when we'd be, like, at a restaurant all together, and he'd ask you, you know, Jefferson, how's that fish? And I'd say, well, it's great. And it was an invitation for me to say, would you like a bite? That was always his go-to. He would say, yeah, how's that chicken right there? And it's his way of saying, that looks good.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And he'd invite me and go, would you like a bite? And I'd go, yeah, I think I would. Sounds like a super communicator. I think he knew what he wanted out of the conversation. That's the invitation right there is what you're hearing. I love that. The takeaway is instead of trying to push your point, even in the small, little everyday conversations, you find ways to ask more questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And on top of that, we have live classes and a whole lot of fun. You can also find that link down in the show notes. If you've ever wondered how the great communicators become great communicators, well, you're in for a treat on this episode. Today, we're hearing from Charles Duhigg. This guy is not only a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, he is an amazing author and somebody I am actually...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Super communicators ask much more than the average person on questions that they can put into somebody else's life. The takeaway is invest in the questions. That's exactly right. Exactly. I love that. I want to tell you about a sponsor of this podcast called Cozy Earth. The reason why I went with Cozy was because I already use their products. Their sheets are on my bed right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
My wife loves their pajamas. I love their hoodies, their sweatshirts, their blankets. If you're like me and just want to be comfortable, look no further than Cozy Earth. You And use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. If you're a blanket person, if you're a sheet person, if you're a towel person, they're who you want.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Go to Cozy Earth. In your book, Super Communicators, which is fantastic, I encourage everybody right now while you're listening to this episode, just go run and buy it. It's wonderful.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
You talk about three types of conversations that people could be in, really at any given time. And that to me, when I read it, was going, oh, that's really cool. And kind of breaking it up into, I'm very visual. Like anytime you're in a conversation, you have like a yellow wire, a blue wire, and a green wire. And you never really know which one to pull.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And what you do so well is you synthesize these and to say, hey, really, anytime you're in a conversation, you're in one of these three boxes. Can you tell us about that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. That's where somebody says, you're not listening to me. Yes, I am.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. I find that in those moments,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
it's um the person is not looking for reciprocal words they're looking for reciprocal feeling if you're having that emotional conversation when you're complaining about your day you're looking for a feeling from that other person the the acknowledgement words don't do it words don't give it it's the emotion the feeling that you go okay now we've connected the your white wire with my white wire and now i now we're connected
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
geeking over to talk to about is somebody who loves communication because he has a book out that is called Super Communicators. And I just can't wait to get into it and talk about it. He's a dad of two, I believe. And I know you're over in California. Charles, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. This is such a treat. Yeah, it has been so cool.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's wild.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Isn't it fun that we can be excited about communication like this? We're part of the weirdos, man. Definitely.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
it doesn't matter a lick no it doesn't yeah look i mean in and it um it's so funny that you might have these brilliant minds but then the clients don't want to work with them because they don't feel like there's that service like they can talk but this person's yet brilliant and there's so such a difference between your trial litigators and the people that are let's say more transactional
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And so it's just so funny to hear that and experience that. But yeah, communication is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Now I know that you also, you've done so much research, in fact, have a whole separate book on just habits, the power of habits. And of course, everybody's looking for better habits.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm gonna ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review. My new book, The Next Conversation, is out to order.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, I totally agree because there's the flip side of you don't want to have zero conflict where you only have conflict in the bedroom.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so one thing y'all are so good at that I know I've applied to my marriage is y'all are very quick to forgive. Y'all are very quick to say, I'm sorry. I think that plays a big role in how long the argument lasts, because if you just for people who withhold that apology, like they use it almost as a punishment in a way when they're withholding that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Here's my plan for this is for anybody listening, we're going to talk a few things about Jefferson, because I know there's some curiosity of how did this guy get so weird about communication? And on this other end of making sure that we're giving very practical solutions and techniques of how y'all raised me and my siblings, I'm the oldest of four, for anybody that doesn't know, how y'all...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
But I absolutely agree that on the flip side, having knock down, drag out arguments is is not healthy at the same time you want to see you want the kids to see you come to resolution right right but i've had that too where it is My son thinks that he did something wrong when we're arguing or he'll say or he'll mistake just banter and playful banter as argument, as conflict.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And we kind of have to say, no, no, no, we're not. We're not arguing. Yeah. And so and I think some kids are very perceptive of that, more sensitive to that. My daughter could really care less what we're – but son is especially in tune with what we're talking about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I mean, and you remember – I won't – I'm not going to say his name, but I was – I grew up with a friend who lived not too far down the street, and his parents argued – in front of us, like really did. And I remember looking like, is everything okay? And he just acted like nothing happened. I mean, just kept eating his cereal. I mean, never looked up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And I think so many people are now realizing in their own life how they handle conflict, having that struggle to apologize, having those hard times. They're now seeing that reflected of how they grew up. So I'm curious, Mom, how did you grow up with conflict?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's true. I can attest to that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
regularly and just you need to tell people i'm sorry i was i'm sorry i was wrong i think that's that's a crucial point it's not just to apologize not just so your kid hears you apologize to your spouse to them but also that they hear i am sorry because you're not perfect either exactly yeah
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
kind of laid the strategy for how you wanted to be parents. So I'm going to ask right at the outset, is what was the main themes and thoughts and hopes and prayers before you had children before you had made anybody out there that is hoping to have children, they have very new kids, what were some of the things that was very important to to y'all?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. What can we do to fix it? Yeah. Confidence is not all about only saying it when you're right. It's admitting when you're wrong. That's where the confidence comes from.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. That's very true. When you see now kind of where this whole thing is taken in my life, just the whole social media thing, I'm curious. This is this is aside from communication advice for a second, because I get this question of, you know, what do your parents think? Usually what Sierra thinks was the family. What do you all think about all of this stuff?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
When I first told you, I have having some people follow me on social on social media. And then you continue to see it grow. So I'm curious how you've seen it from your end.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, he always would say.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, that I talked a lot. That was the thing. And I was quick-witted. I think that was the pull from there. And I don't know who I got that from. Probably a combination of... You both. Because I grew up seeing dad very diplomatic. Dad's the peacemaker. Everywhere he goes, he's definitely the peacemaker. Where we have other cousins and other family, they're not that way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
They're much more bull in a china closet. I mean, they'll rip you one side and down the other. But dad's always been the diplomatic. And then you, I feel like, have always had a sense of just warmth. You're a very loving personality. Like you're not rough at all. So you're very easy to talk to. And I think the combination of that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
led to a lot of my philosophies and how I began to communicate early on. Dad, what do you think about this social media stuff?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, does my mama Sherilyn?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's good. There's so much of it of people asking, how did you get this way? Where do you get all this stuff? And I always tell them, what I share is not something you read. Anywhere else, it's just part of my experience.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, Sherilyn. I've always called her mama, so she... Yeah, he always calls me mama.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And y'all have seen. And I just wanted to make sure that we shared some things about communication advice, some things about me personally that people have just been curious about. And I'm just... I find that when I say it has to do a lot with my experience, a major part of that is y'all, just my parents. If I had been born to two different people, I would have been a totally different person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I agree. I agree. And it's been such a cool experience. I never thought we'd be doing a podcast and getting to interview my parents. That's cool. And the whole thing has just been amazing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
You can find the links there in the show notes, as well as my School of Communication and Membership. Today, I cannot be any more excited to be speaking and bringing to you some people that mean the absolute world to me, where it all started, and that would be my parents. Hey, Mom. Hello. Hey, Mama. Hey, Dad.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
wild anybody who's followed me and listening knows how left field this has come for me but that's kind of part of the authenticity of there's never been a motive there's never been a i want to do this with this so it's just been fun to enjoy it it's come a long way from the
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, it really has been fun to be part of. I mean, I can't believe it's happening.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I want to take a second right now and tell you about a sponsor of this podcast, and they're called Cozy Earth. The reason why I said yes to Cozy Earth is because their sheets are on my bed right now. I've used them for months, if not years, and they're the best. My wife loves her pajamas. I love their hoodies and their sweatshirts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So if you want to be home and you're like me, you just want to be cozy and comfortable. You can go to cozyearth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's cozyearth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. So one major question that I see a lot of people asking is,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
is how did you teach, I say me, but really all of us, all of my siblings, the balance between being assertive, meaning not being a wallflower and getting stepped over, and how do you also balance kindness? You want to not be rude to somebody, but at the same time, you want to be very direct. I'm curious if y'all had any... mindset or tools for how you thought or how you gave me advice about that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Like, for example, dad, you would tell me if I came to complain about something, you'd say, don't make that your Alamo. That's what you'd say. You say, don't make that your Alamo. In other words, don't, don't be that, let that be the hill to die on. And there was this kind of sense of, so, you know,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I mean, the kind of the, when Jonathan was upset that mom was all in his business, and mom just, and you say so? I mean, there are just things about that. I'm just curious what the balance was like for y'all, what y'all saw.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. And what do you think it is about with charisma? How do you define that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
How did you see that, mom? Maybe not with just assertiveness, but on top of how you when when we say zero tolerance policy, what was your mindset of what you how you would handle me or any of us when we said something that was disrespectful, which I'm sure was very few times, mama?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Mama would always say, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Oh, yeah. No, it was not like a spanking heart on my hand.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Well, you, I mean, you would always, as I got to see, like we talked about being kind of a second dad with Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob, and seeing that, I found myself a lot of times in the role as the mediator. Mm-hmm. very early on with that to where a lot of the problems didn't, I kind of took it as like a thing of, I didn't want the problems to hit y'all's plate. And not, but not in a bad way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, I feel like it's a, the people that are charismatic tend to be very warm.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
It became like a thing that I enjoyed. I also know, I mean, just being reflective and open with my personality, And I can see that in my son. I was very perceptive of emotions, like how you were feeling. And so even now, if I watch a movie and there's an awkward moment, I can't take it. If there's a conflict, even in the movie, because I can feel it. And Jed has the same exact thing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so I'm curious how you saw... And that transition with how I handled my emotions and maybe there could be some nuggets in there of how we can teach some other people to recognize that in their kids and what emotional intelligence means to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
It's just something about them that you like to listen.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, we have a very close relationship with my siblings still. But yeah, that was definitely, I mean, you were always there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Like to listen to them. Well, I feel like, I mean, you had, until Sarah, my sister, was born, it was just me and you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's no doubt, I'm sure. But yeah, I find that. And people who are really good at reading others' emotions, I mean, and we could even talk about this in like the legal space too, as we're both attorneys, as some of the most excellent communicators are those that can have high emotional intelligence and can read emotions in others' faces. Just have that intuition.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And they can know how to say things a certain way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
To produce a certain outcome based on what they know about those people's emotions. And so I've seen that even with our son and when he wants to, let's say, play a video game, which we do not allow until maybe a Saturday afternoon for like an hour. And the way he asks the question, it's so funny, like every time he asks the question changes every week because he's like trying a different way to.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
get in there and now he's using his sister of using her as what she would want and like seeing if i would give more preference to her versus he's testing exactly i remember taking with the dairy queen and he wanted to throw away a paper napkin that's my son yes yes yeah and he wanted to throw it away i said no not now we're still eating ice cream
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So how, I mean, that's a very pivotal time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Just trying to find a way to... I think that really developed a lot of my... How I come up with little phrases or metaphors or twists for things of how to say, like I like wordsmithing. And so I think that helped develop that at a very early age.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, that's kind of developed what we're doing now. Well, I want to make sure and leave people with, if there is any thoughts that you have as a parent, not of a parent of Jefferson, just a parent of any child in what you find to be one of the biggest things that they can do to help give them confidence in how they communicate, maybe open them up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And we already talked about how it's great to apologize to them and let them see that. I think it's great that you encouraged me to not see problems as big as they needed to be. You'd say, is that going to be your Alamo? Is that really going to be that important? And when you asked me that question, it was like, you know what?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
It's really not that important, but that became, I mean, I still remember it. So it became so ingrained in me of seeing what was important. So what, what are some lasting thoughts that you might have for parents that are wanting to make sure that they put their kids on the right path?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. Even if they're a brother and sister.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. I think it teaches them at an early age to use that as a weapon.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And without understanding the— It can be very hurtful.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
can second that because i can remember both of you uh especially you dad you would always probably every day i'm proud of you i mean you would made it a mission critical to say you were proud of me now i know being being a kid you know i'm looking all over the room i'm being goofy i mean it's i i try to talk to my kids and to get their attention to look me in the eye and just say something you
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
that you feel is significant, very difficult because they're just, they're everywhere. And I might say something sweet and they go, you know, why does a pelican have a big beak? You know, it's just, did I even say it? And so, but I'm here to tell you that I did hear it and I remember it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, and I think even for parents who did not have that role modeled growing up, I think there's a message here, too, of that they can change that. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's just because they had a rough upbringing does not mean that's the same upbringing that their kid is going to have. Exactly. And even if they didn't have that model for them and they didn't feel that, it's—
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
They can set it right. I think it really just changes on the next generation. Right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
yeah well learn and to grow for sure and i think i mean now i mean there's so many podcasts on parenting and accounts wonderful accounts and experts on parenting and things you should say not say what you do i mean um and y'all just didn't have that i mean you just didn't have that's what i mean i mean you just didn't you didn't have nearly that i mean you can go to
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yes. No, that was one thing that I always felt very vulnerable. I could be very vulnerable with you. I could say just about anything. I talk about being a safe space. in communication for your kids. And that, that is saying, thank you for coming to me with this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Instead of just getting so upset to where they don't want to come back and say things like, I can't imagine ever in a world where I am not my child's go-to for when things go wrong. You know, you don't, you, you want to be that you don't want to be where they're trying to hide it from dad or mom and not do that. So it makes a big difference. And have fun.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so I said, who's there? Yeah. And you go, it's Jefferson. I said, Jefferson who? Jefferson Fisher. I said, what do you do, Jefferson Fisher? You go on.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. And I remember a mirror. Oh, yes. And the way the living room was set up, there was a mirror behind the couch.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
For sure. I could not be any more grateful that I want it on the record. I could not be any more grateful that y'all are my parents and that y'all have influenced my life forever and beyond. And I couldn't imagine ever having any other parents. So I want to let you both know I love you very, very much. And thank you for praying over me. Thank you for praying over me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And, um, and just being who you are and a joy to anybody who gets to know you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So I love y'all. Love you too.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And I never do that. I never talk to myself. I'm so glad I grew out of that. Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Well, it was. I mean, for four years, it was just me. So I was.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Right. I'm with you. Dad, I want to make sure and ask, this is my dad, David. For you, I'm going to kind of pose that same question. What were some of your goals before having kids and me coming into the world as a father? Just for any, not just because it was me, but because any child, you're now a father. What were some of the main themes?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Doing great. Awesome. Are y'all comfortable? You're all good? You bet. So for anybody listening, this is the very first time I've ever had a guest, and so I want to make sure that my first guest that I ever had was going to be y'all. Yeah. And make sure that this was important to me and that y'all knew how much I loved y'all and how thankful I am for everything you've done for me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And when I was... As long as I can remember, you've prayed that prayer. I mean, as long as I can remember. I truly credit it, y'all's prayers, for how I've turned out. I've had a little bit to do with it, but for the most part, I mean, a lot of what y'all put me in positioned me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so this is really for the parents that are listening or people that are wanting to have kids or maybe you have nieces and nephews. It... It matters when you have goals and themes and a focus of where your heart is and how it develops their character.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, they kind of absorb what they see if you're not living up to what they have. Yeah. Now, I am also curious. I asked this to mom. Mama, what do you how did you see the dynamic between once? So I'm the oldest of four. There's Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob. Once Sarah was born, Jonathan, Jacob. How did you see me being from, you know, a.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
one child by myself to now kind of taking on this role as brother. And how did you feel like you saw that develop in me and little things maybe you saw in communication? And the reason why I'm asking is so that anybody listening can spot some things of how they saw the oldest child versus the youngest child and how you saw some of those dynamics changing in our house.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
This is the very first time I've had guests, so we're just going to make it work. Anybody listening, they know how my style is and they know that this is just a... a casual conversation. There's none of this that is pre done or set up. Y'all really don't have any idea what I was going to ask you. Uh, and mom, you look beautiful. I know you were worried about what y'all are going to wear.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. And then when Jonathan.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Jonathan, my younger brother, Jonathan couldn't say his vowels very well. And so consonants.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
yeah that's probably my row man yeah and that's that was what he did so i just kind of became that i loved i still love being big brother there's a theme that i i pick up on and i'm sure anybody who's listening senses this from you mama and is just the kindness i don't know a single person or human that does not like mama. And so you've always radiated kindness. And yeah, of course.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And I got to see a lot of that growing up because I can remember coming and saying that somebody had done something that made me upset and I'd bring it to you to complain and you'd say, well, were you kind? And I'd say, but mom, you don't understand. And you wouldn't have any of it. You'd just say, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was the whole outlook from that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So how do you see kindness and what does it mean to you? How do you like to put it out into the world? What's your secret?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. Well, I mean, you had a – I can remember – It was very early on for people listening in the South. It's yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. That is a sign of respect and manners. And if you said it, you expected that to be it. Yes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's very true. I think I just got PTSD for a second. Yeah. Hearing all that, yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Y'all did. You did great. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. So I want to make sure we're all good and comfortable. And so I have some have some questions. There's some that I pulled from people that follow my content that I put out on social media. And I also had some of my own. So I want to.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. Yeah. Very, very defensive. I mean, it's one thing for you to say something about your mama, but... Somebody else said something about your mama. Those are fighting words every single time. I want to turn gears a little bit to specifically conflict and arguments. I remember in y'alls and growing up in our house, Y'all really did not argue in front of us.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I mean, there were just normal spats, but when it came to serious arguing, y'all did it in y'all's room. Cause I can remember. like keeping the kids away of like, no, mom and dad are talking. Y'all go down the hall. Let's let's, you know, go entertain them for whatever.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And then, or if it was late at night, you know, after the kids go to bed and I was older, so it wasn't like, um, and it wasn't that big of a house. I mean, if y'all were talking seriously, you could hear voices. I didn't know what y'all were saying. Um, Outside of when we were in the car. I mean, of course, if you're late, late for church, everybody's just, yeah, yeah. Taking off on vacation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, yeah, on vacation for sure. Then you have to hear argument. But I'm curious on y'all's take about... For people who are just rethinking how they saw arguments happen in their life, I'm curious how you saw it with your parents and how that shaped how y'all did it with us, specifically conflict.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
What did I do wrong? That's such a good point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I can remember it like it was yesterday. My dad is in his chair. I think every father has their designated spot in the house. My dad was in his. And I'm in my parents' living room. I'm probably 17. And I am upset. I am disagreeing, vocally, with a judgment call he had made. I don't remember about what.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
don't cut that off just make sure there are parameters and you can make the parameters for for your own household absolutely and when you're one-on-one encourage your child to prove it to you in other words make them show their homework when they're communicating say okay make make the case what's the argument you're gonna have a lot of fun with that because it expresses a lot of your kids um personality at least that's what we found so when it comes to children
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
These are some lessons we've talked about today that are close to my heart. In other words, things that my parents put into me and things that we do here at home. One is to allow your kids to disagree. Give them the space to not like it. You don't have to like it. You just need to understand it. It's a wonderful phrase, and it's allowing them to say, hey, we're going to connect with each other.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
It's okay to not like it. I'm not going to force you to like it. Number two, kindness is a wonderful blanket over a lot of things, especially any conversations that they're having outside of your world. And three, allow your kid to have the arguments. Instead of this, don't argue with me. Now, I'm not saying allow backtalk. That's disrespectful. I'm not saying that whatsoever.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
We don't allow sass. We don't allow backtalk. If you're gonna have a conversation, you're going to not wait until you're walking away to go, oh, this is the worst. My daughter does that. She will typically walk away, stomp upstairs and say, this is the worst. This is the worst day ever. That's what we get. That is not allowable behavior. But if you want to have a conversation, say, I do not agree.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I don't like this. This is why. These are wonderful conversations you need to have because overall, it's telling your child. or whoever you're raising in your life, that I am a safe space for you to express all things, all emotions, right in here. And this is the training ground for how I'm going to teach you before you leave and you go on to the next stage of life and I can't control it then.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
So this is the best time that we got. Thank you very much for listening to today's episode. If you liked it, I'm encouraging you again to please subscribe, follow, like, whatever it is, leave a review. If you have a topic suggestion, just throw that topic in the comments because I read just about every one of them. And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I have two live Q&A calls and a master class that I do in tandem with the University of Texas at Austin. And I love it. It's a whole lot of fun. So if you're interested in going further, I want you to check that out. I have an AI that's a whole lot of fun, and people are getting a whole lot of value out of that. And I also have a newsletter.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
where once a week I send a communication tip right to your inbox, and those are tools that you can use right away. This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. It is one of the most comfortable pieces of clothing I will ever put on. I can't imagine anything more comfortable than that. It is something I wear all the time when I'm traveling. I'm now done with the book tour officially, finally.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I loved it. It was awesome to rely on something that was comfortable whenever I traveled. Now, we really like them here at home for their bed sheets. Their bed sheets are incredible. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. Communicating with our kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
You know, I don't know if there's anything more important than I will do in my life than how I teach my children how to communicate. If you're listening to this podcast, you and I believe in the same thing, and that is your next conversation can truly change everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Communication is tied to everything, where you want to be, where you don't want to be, what kind of person you'll be thought of and who you'll want to be, what kind of legacy are you leaving? And that legacy has a lot to do with your children, the next generation, who is going to come after you. And so this is a very serious topic when close to my heart. I have two kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
It might have been how late I could stay out, my curfew, or whether I could or could not go to a friend's house. I don't know. Whatever it was, I was very upset about it. And we had had some back and forth, and he eventually said no. No, Jefferson, the answer is no. And what did I do at the age of 17? I pushed back again. And this is what he told me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I have a seven-year-old, a son, and a five-year-old girl. And they could not be any more polar opposite. I love them more than anything in the world. I'm obsessed with my kids. I'm obsessed with their faces and their smells and just their voice, everything about them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And it is that much more crucial for me in my life, as it is, I know, and I'm sure in yours, that we teach our children, and I mean collectively in society, we teach children how to communicate, how to handle the difficult conversations. This is not an episode that I am giving tools for kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
This is an episode for the parents, parents-to-be, or anybody who is looking to help raise the next generation. And this is what I want to lead off with. And that is number one, the best thing that's happened to me that influenced so much of my life is that my parents allowed me to disagree. My parents allowed me to not like it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Connection is not, when we use the word connection, there's this tendency to think that it's like this Hallmark card. Everything has to be happy. Everybody has to just be pleasant. That's not it. I can connect with you and still be mad at you. I can connect with you and still be upset and disagree. That's what my dad was doing when he told me, well, you don't gotta like it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
You just need to understand it. That's connection right there. He was allowing me the space, the emotions, and said, you don't gotta like it. Sometimes we want our children to be just as happy with the decision we're making As we are. And so we want to continue to control it. We want to influence their feelings, not just so they understand it, but that they like the decision we're making.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And that is, I think, counterintuitive. I think that is ultimately not as healthy as it could be. It is good for children to have different points of view. It is good for them to understand they have a safe space to not like it. It's cool.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
If I were to say to you in conversation, this is adult to adult, and you're upset with something I'm saying, and this happens to me on the phone, opposing an attorney. He doesn't like what I am suggesting. I'll use that same technique. I'll say, well, you don't have to like it. That's okay. You hear how like almost as a relief that is to the other person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
If I begin the conversation with, hey, look, you're not going to like what I have to say. Or even when they start to argue with me and I say, look, I don't need to change your mind. I don't need to change your mind. You need to understand this is what I'm doing. You're free to disagree with it. You don't have to like it. There is almost a relief that comes with that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
So that's why I have as point number one, giving children the space to disagree, which they're going to do naturally, but it's more so giving them the space that it's okay that you don't like it. You just need to understand it. It's okay. You don't have to be happy about it. Don't force them to be happy with the decision or as satisfied with a decision as you are.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
That'll come later in life because you know that what you're doing from your point of view is the best thing for them. I'm sure my dad made the right call. I was trying to stay out too late, most likely. And he said, no, my dad had this, my parents would say, nothing good happens after midnight. And let me tell you, Lord, ain't that the truth? I thought I want to stay out as late as I could.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Ain't nothing good happen after midnight. Go get home. Go get home. I can't even imagine now in my life when my kids start driving, I'm just going to give them some scooters. I don't even want to see them on the road. It terrifies me. So you want to give them the space. Give them the space to disagree with you. Two, I learned this lesson from my mama.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
He took a breath and he said, you don't have to like it. I mean, he smiled even doing that. He said, you don't have to like it. You just need to understand it. This episode today is for the parents.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And it is this, where there is room for kindness, use it. My mom was somebody who's very kind. Now, I think I also want to mention, I'm most likely, y'all have listened to, and the first guest that I had on this podcast, I brought my parents. on David and Sherilyn, and they were a hoot.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I need to share the bloopers of this one time because they were absolutely hilarious, and my mom would get on to my dad. She'd say, David. Anyway, I learned this lesson from my mom. It does not matter if somebody commits a wrong against you, if somebody does you wrong, if somebody says something, there is always a decision by you to choose to use kindness or not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And that is a lesson that I also teach my kids. It does not matter if he took your toy or she took your toy. It does not matter if it is not fair. There is always a room for kindness of how you treat one another. And that was a lesson that she emphasized time and time again. And it would pretty much go like this. I would come home, put my backpack down, and she'd ask me about my day.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And then I'd get to complaining about something, something that somebody said, did. And instead of taking my side right away, which is probably what I wanted her to do, It's not that she was against me. She would say this question. She would ask me this. She'd say, well, Jefferson, were you kind? If you can hear my mom's voice, it was exactly that. She'd say, well, were you kind?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And I'd say, probably not, mama. You know, they've done X, Y, and Z, and they can't, you know. And she'd go, well, I still think you should be kind. I mean, that was the daily thesis, just the daily motivation drop from my mother
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
almost every other day it felt like and it was such a good framework for me of instead of seeing how I can buy it back against somebody instead of her going you know what they are the worst Jefferson you know what you're right they are so terrible it's not like she wasn't in my corner of course as a parent you're going to be in your in your children's corner if my daughter
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
If you have any kids, you want to have kids, you're curious on my philosophy on raising children and how to teach them to be better communicators and the lessons that I can pass on through my own family and upbringing, this episode is for you. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
says somebody is mean and they've committed a wrong, I mean, my daughter's five, but let's say she came home and said, you know what? Hey, Genevieve is mean. I'd be like, yeah, she is. If she's on your list, she's on my list, girl. It's not that my mom wasn't in that camp. She was always looking out for me of, what are you holding, Jefferson? What are you carrying with you? What are you holding?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I mean, she had these cutting eyes that would always explore the, what are you holding onto? Because yes, is there a time and place that you just wanna put somebody in their place? You just wanna tell it like it is? And they need to understand and send that zinger? Yes, I get it. I get it, it's natural. There's nothing on its face wrong with that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
There are some people who need to be put in their place, period. The bigger moral of the story is, Time's going to pass. You're going to say the thing to someone, and time's going to pass. And you know who's going to remember it? You. You're the one who's going to remember what you said to them. They might forget, but you'll remember. And you're going to remember how you felt long after it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
I can remember even now thinking of things maybe I said in high school, and I look back on it now and go, why did I even waste my breath? Why did I say that? What I think was going to happen, they're going to change everything about them. They're going to say, oh my gosh, Jefferson, you're so right. You're so correct. Thank you for embarrassing me and trying to make me feel bad.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Oh, yes, I definitely changed my mind. That never happens, ever. I said it for myself. I said it for me so it would feel good. It feels good in that moment. It will not feel good later. So don't be the one that is left holding the consequences of words that you can't take back. All right? Number three. Here are lessons that I apply in my daily routine with me and my wife and our two kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And it's this, let them argue. If you have more than one kid and they're bickering back and forth, we have the mindset of you let them do it. From a distance, it's not like you're not managing it, but you need to let them talk it out. Just because they're disagreeing does not mean you need to immediately come in and go, uh-uh, that's enough. Y'all cut it out. Y'all be nice.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
You need to let them do that. This is their training ground, especially for siblings. This is their training ground. If they're going to be ugly between two people, let them be ugly with the people they love most and the ones who love them most. That does not mean you're going to allow them to be really ugly to each other. We have something that we call house rules.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Meaning if you're gonna disagree with something, you're gonna get into an argument with each other, house rules apply. That means there's no name calling, there's no hitting, there's no trying to boast or brag of like, well, I got this. Any of that, that's not allowed. That's not allowed. So it is to encourage them
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
to fight fair to think of their actual words and i do this also with my son my son right now because he's he's he's older and so it makes more sense for he and i to communicate this way but he if he's asking for something and it's something i i could give but maybe he's like he's wanting me to uh allow him a few more minutes to stay up or something like that i will tell him I'll say, convince me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would leave a review and I mean it, if you're just watching this, just take a second. and click subscribe. It takes no time at all. If you ever want to unsubscribe, no problem.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Why should I allow that? Instead of getting into the, oh, why not? Why can't I? I make him make the argument. which is, again, wonderful training ground at making him think of the goal. What would be the goal of the conversation we're wanting to have? Why are you asking me this? Instead of just starting with the ask, I want him to get in the habit of thinking about the end after the conversation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And if you think of the end goal, it helps framework the beginning. It turns the conversation on its face. And so he is, it's kind of scary now. He's become like a little master of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
And we have to kind of watch him because he might be making an argument about something or a comment offhandedly because he really likes his video games, which we only allow screens on weekends and only for like an hour. And so he's always trying to, you know,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Say, yeah, you know, dad, I really, I feel like asking about video games, but I know you'd probably say, no, I'm just letting you know how I feel about it. Jed, you don't think I know what you're doing, man? So yeah, the apple doesn't far too far from the tree. The point here is let your kids experience that. Now, if you only have a, what do you call it?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
An only child, you only have one child, awesome. That just means you're their conversation partner. You're their conversation partner. You need to let them experience it all. Let them disagree. Don't be the type of parent that just says, because I said so. That's the worst. I find that kind of parenting on a communication level detrimental to the relationship, and it hinders growth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
in the child's thoughts and how they're going to maneuver communication. How are they going to get what they want? It's totally okay to explore the reasoning why. Usually it's because they really want to know why instead of this, I've had enough, don't ask me again because I said so. I can remember as a kid, that never felt good because it's, if it was because I'm the mom, because I'm the dad,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
Do better and this is a challenge for me too because believe me when I say I get tempted on that too. Just you don't wanna hear any more of it, just do as I say. But when you explain it to them, the reasoning, I'm telling you this, I'm telling you no, because you need to be asleep.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
But what it does when you follow, subscribe, leave a heart, leave a review, is that it tells the platforms that this is good content. And if you find this to be good content, and if you're listening to it, I really hope that you do that. That would really mean a whole lot to me. If you're wanting to go even further in your communication skills, I have a membership that I teach classes monthly.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The 3 Parenting Skills That Shape Future Communicators
If you do not get sleep, I'm gonna have to be dragging you out of bed in the morning, and I want you to be able to sleep, and that's when your mind grows. And I am explaining to him the reasoning behind it, and then they're going, oh, okay, well, that makes sense. So allow them to disagree with each other,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
How do you end a relationship? Whether it's for work, whether it's romantic, how do you cut ties with someone? Well, at the end of today's podcast, you're going to walk away with exactly how to do it. You ready? Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
How's your family and everybody? They all right? Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy, right? And this weather, this weather is just doing wild things. I know they said it was going to be hot, but if it wasn't, man, yeah, it had rain. It's crazy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
So listen, I think you're just, you've been such a good person, and you're so great, and I've really enjoyed getting to know you, and it's, stop, time out, cut. Is this not just painful? I mean, I'm the one role-playing this, and it is painful for me. It's awkward, it hurts, ugh. Anytime you need to deliver bad news,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
the person who has to deliver, it is one of the worst feelings because you know that it's coming. It's a cliffhanger. I bet you, you know people, and maybe you're one of them, that will delay doing it as much as possible. You will be in a relationship for six months longer than you need to.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
You'll let that person work with you for six months longer than you need to because you're not sure how you need to end it. You talk to somebody and they're like, are you breaking up with that person? Like, yeah, I need to. I just, I don't really know how. And it is such a disservice to you. Please stop. I'm going to teach you how to do this. Instead of this...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
A horrible, this mush, this quick saying of, I don't know how I'm going to feel. You have a pit in your stomach when you're brushing your teeth. You're on the commute. Whenever you know you're going to meet with that person, your heart's just beating in your chest. Stop. Stop. We're going to clear that up. Number one. First problem is the small talk. Number one, do not begin with small talk.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
learning tools to improve your communication, there's something I want you to do. There is a button wherever you're listening called subscribe or where you're watching. I want you to click it. It's not going to take two seconds. And the reason why is because I am promising you that what I'm going to continue to do is deliver value on how to improve your communication skills.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
When somebody's coming to sit down with you and you're like, hey, so how are you? Oh, you're good? Yeah, how's your pickleball? Did you see that bird the other day? Yeah, man, we always like to say that's crazy. Oh, that's crazy. There's nothing crazy about it. stop doing that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
The small talk is one of the worst pain points because you as a listener, if you've ever been on the other side of this, you know exactly how it feels. You're like, what's wrong? Something's off. I can tell. We have this sixth sense about us where we go, nope, something's not right. This is a setup. This is a trap. What's going on? And you're just kind of waiting for the hammer to drop.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
And what happens is there's small talk, small talk, small talk, and they give you the phrase. You ready? The phrase is, so listen, boom, and it just tanks from there. They know the bottom has just dropped out. They know that it's the worst thing that could possibly happen. It's not genuine, it's not kind, and it's not honest. Stop doing it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
Instead, in this small talk, what I want you to do is to label the conversation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
label the conversation you're gonna just you gotta turn on the cold water y'all you gotta turn on the cold water sometimes the the sometimes the the most kind thing you can do is be the most direct that you can be meaning when you delay the hard conversation you are only making it worse for both of you because you are you are not operating in a state of authenticity the quicker you can get to that main point i just hit my knuckles so hard
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
whenever you connect together in a way that does not break your knuckles, whenever you get really, you bring that time closest to, let me rip off the band-aid instead of ripping off slowly. You're familiar with that. The better things are going to be. And it's true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
It's true because while they're waiting for the hammer to drop, you're the one that, let's be honest, the reason you do all that small talk is not for them. It's for you. to make yourself feel better, to make you feel a little bit more calm and comfortable. You're doing it for you when in actuality it does nothing for them. It only spikes their anxiety.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
It makes them understand that what all came before it is just not genuine. It's not true. It was just fluff because now you're about to deliver the news you really wanted to do. Instead of all the small talk, you're going to label the conversation. What does that sound like, Jefferson? It sounds like this is going to be a difficult conversation. This isn't going to be fun to talk about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
It sounds as easy as this is going to be a difficult conversation or this is going to be hard. This isn't going to be fun to discuss. I'm not looking forward to this conversation. This might come as a surprise to you. This might come as a shock to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
For me, in my world, in my team, anybody law firm related otherwise, when they have to deliver bad news, what I ask is they say, you're not going to like this. First thing in the phone call, they say, you're not going to like this. And it allows me to go, okay, I'm ready. And like mentally, I'm kind of preparing myself to go, okay, all right, let's hear it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
And whenever you subscribe or you like, or you comment, it tells the platform, this is good content. And that's my promise to help deliver good content. content in a way that is easy, accessible, and hopefully friendly. This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth. It's a sponsor because I wear their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed and I travel in it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
And then whatever comes after, it is what it is. Instead of leading with the phone call of, hey, so, okay, well, we got an issue. It's not just ending a termination. It's not just ending a relationship. It's not just terminating a relationship. It's also any bad news at all. But I want to focus specifically on ending a relationship today. You hear how small talk is not kind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
Being unclear is not kind, even though it tries to make yourself feel better. Label the conversation. You get to sit with them, let's say in a romantic setting. You need to break up with somebody. It can be as easy as, this isn't going to be a fun conversation. Or if it's totally catching them off guard, you can even say, this is probably going to catch you off guard.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
This might come as a surprise to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
two number two let's move to number two the first thing out of your mouth after that you're going to give it a two second little break to allow them to ready themselves and they will first thing out of your mouth is the news is the news in a work context you're saying we need to let you go in a romantic relationship it's we need to break up simple whatever it is you have to get to the bottom line immediately
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
Don't start going back to small talk. Don't start going back to mush. You're going to deliver the hard news. This isn't working out for me. You're not gonna, this isn't working out. That's fine. Deliver the bottom line right out of the gate because it is being direct. Remember, bringing connection. So number two is get to the point right away. Number three, so you see how simple that is?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
I guess it's self-explanatory. Get to the point. Number three is now you can lead with the gratitude. Now you can bring on the compliments. We always do it backwards. We love to do it backwards. Let's say you and I are in a romantic relationship right now. And I'm saying, the first thing out of my mouth is I sit down with you and I immediately go into what? Past tense.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
Hey, so you're really, I think you're really great and I've really enjoyed just getting to know you these past few months. What's the first thing you're thinking? What's happening? Uh-oh, we're breaking up. This is terrible. What did I do? And all of a sudden I'm going, no, no, no, it's not you. It's me. You're darn right it's you. I mean, when I say it's you, I mean it's me. Meaning it's me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
I'm the one that is leading this conversation. Yes, I'm the one. It's not about them. It's not about what they've done wrong. It's not you, you, you, you. You've done terrible stuff. If you're going to do anything, number three says add on gratitude. Now you can add the compliments. Now you can add the positivity because you want to end on a positive note.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
This is not where you start laying out all the things they've done wrong. When you say, look, this is going to be a difficult conversation. It's time for us to part ways. You know, you're just, you're not for me. I really don't like, I don't like the sound of your voice. You always come in late. You never get your projects on time. You're not really my cup of tea.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
When you just go, you, you, you, you, you, you, there is nothing left. This person will end up hating you forever. When this might be your last conversation. End the conversation on a positive note, as positive as you can make it. Even if you don't really care for this person, I don't care. End your life in a positive way. It will always last longer than you ended in the negative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
I wore a sweatshirt that was a Cozy Earth sweatshirt. All throughout my tour, I just got back from the Today Show, and it was fantastic. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson for 40% off. Use the code Jefferson. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. How do you end a relationship? This is how it typically goes. This is how it typically goes. You come down.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
If you just want to burn every bridge, kick down the house, whatever it is, always in positive. So this is where you get to say, I have to say, let's put in an example. This is where you might say, I need to have a difficult conversation with you. It's time to let you go. Here, I just said that. I'm going to add on the, you've been a great person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
I've really enjoyed getting to know you these last two months. And I think I'm really looking forward to your career and where you're going to be headed. It's just not going to be here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
really really enjoy you know getting to know you you see how i am i am looking forward to whatever the future is for this person in a romantic setting it might be listen this is going to be hard to talk about it's not working for me i've really enjoyed just getting to know you and i think we've had a lot of laughs and a lot of memories i know you're going to have an awesome future this is not going to be not going to be together
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
You hear how that's a whole lot more kind than if I were to say, this is going to be hard to talk about. We need to go separate ways. You're just not for me. You're pretty terrible. And I just lay out all of my grievances. That's not the time. That's not the time. So how do we wrap this thing up? How do we end this conversation?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
Number one, anytime you have to have a conversation where you're breaking things up, Ending a relationship, whether it's romantic, work, friendship, skip the small talk. Number one, skip the small talk, label the conversation, pour the cold water on it. This is going to be hard to talk about. This isn't going to be fun for either of us. I'm not looking forward to this conversation. Easy as that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
You're ripping off the bandaid. Number two, get to the point immediately. We need to go our separate ways. I need to let you go. You're off the team. we need to break up. And three is own the I. It's not you, all the things you've done wrong. It's me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
I'm talking about me, and I'm going to add on the positive of the things that I enjoyed about us that is going to be where it is, but it is not going to be continuing on in the future. Far better than the small talk of, oh, you good? So listen, don't do that. It's not kind. Let's be kind in our conversations, especially when it's time for you to break them off. And that's just normal.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
That's natural. Now, I want to add on this bit about, there might be times where you think, oh, I can't. I can't do that. They're going to hate me. They're going to hate me. Let's talk about that. They're not. They're not. I mean, they might. Right? They might, depending on it. What do I know? But they can't do it forever. And you can't control that. That's my point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
You can't control somebody's feelings. My dad would tell me anytime I could remember not wanting to do something because of being afraid of somebody else's reaction to things. And I would say, well, dad, they're gonna be mad about it. And he go, Yeah, I guess I'll be mad. I said, they're gonna be disappointed. He go, Yeah, I, I guess I'll be disappointed.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
And it was such a way for me to start thinking of the, yeah, you know what, it's true. I can't do anything with their feelings. Yeah, they're going to be sad. Yeah, they're going to be sad. And then life's going to continue on. Yeah, they're going to be disappointed. Then life's going to continue on. Can't control anything about their opinions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
For you to say, what if they're not going to like me? Because that's why we delay it. We're disappointed or worried about their reaction. How are they going to feel about it? But you can't carry that. Don't carry the weight of their own feelings. Don't feel their feelings for them. Don't feel their feelings for them. Best thing you can do is be as direct as you can be.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
That's how you end a relationship, whether it's romantic, friendship, work-wise. And this is where I have to say, it's time for us to go. You've been great. Listen, you've been great. But it's time for us to end the episode. Thank you for listening. As always, if you'd like to continue on in the conversation, improving your communications, You can go to my social media or my membership.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
You meet with me. We sit down over coffee. You come into my office. So let's just put it. Let's role play this. Right now, wherever you're listening, maybe you're walking, you're sitting down, let's imagine it. You and I come into a space and I am the one that has to deliver bad news. I'm the one that has to end it. You sit down and I say, so how are you? You good? Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
3 Steps to End a Relationship with Respect
I am really loving the live Q&As and hot seats that I'm able to do. You can find all the show notes down there at the bottom. Or if you have not yet got my book, The Next Conversation, I encourage you to do so. As always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Today is a big day, y'all, and it's going to be probably an emotional episode for me, and I'm okay with that. Today, my book, The Next Conversation, Are You Less? Talk More, is released. Today is publication day, my very first publication day, and I cannot be any more excited, thrilled, and honored to give a piece of myself to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation. the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review, give it a star, give it a like, give it a heart. Whatever it is, it helps. It really does. And I'm very appreciative for it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Please know that. If you have any topic suggestions, you can just throw them in the comments. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. The reason why I love Cozy Earth as a sponsor is because I actually use their products and I like them, but my wife loves them. Their towels, their bed sheets, anything cozy and comfortable from the tops to pants, sweatshirts to sweatpants are awesome. Love them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. And on that site, there's a whole list of my favorite things that I personally like to wear. So I encourage you to go check it out. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. In today's episode, we're going to go over three things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
One, how I even got here, how a book even happens. Because if you're like me listening, you have no clue how a book goes out into the world. I didn't either. And this has been a whole entire process and a learning process. In fact, every day is still a learning process. So for those of you who are curious, I'm going to share a little bit of the background of how I even got here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Next, we're going to go through the framework of the next conversation, Are You Less? Talk More, in the three-part framework that I set out to help improve your next conversation. And we're going to talk about why it matters. Today's episode is all about the book. About two and a half years ago,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I was getting comments in all of my content about, you should write a book, please write a book, please write a book. And I thought, well, I guess I got to write a book. I've never, listen to me, never in a million years was a book on my bingo card. I never thought about it ever once. I never thought, oh, I wish I could write a book. That wasn't anywhere in my whole mindset.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So when people started asking and leaving comments saying, you should write a book, I thought, well, okay. So I Googled. I went to Google and typed in, how do you write a book? So I spent an evening one night just kind of surfing, seeing, hey, how do you write a book? Lord knows I didn't know. And I saw things about you should self-publish.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
If you've enjoyed any of my content at all at any point in time, and I'm assuming you have if you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to ask you to buy and purchase this book. You You can find a link there or you can go to jeffersonfisher.com book. You can find it there or you can just go in the show notes of this episode and you're going to find the link.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So I started researching on how to self-publish a book and I thought, well, I'll just kind of create a little bit of something and then share it with my followers and be done. I didn't care a lick about making any money from it. I just wanted to give people tangible things that they could mark up, write down, highlight that they could have and make their own. That sounded awesome to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And over time, while I was jotting down ideas, I started getting emails from literary agents. These are people, agents that connect authors to publishers, people who print books and distribute books. So it's kind of like a middleman. And they're able to take percentages of things, a typical agent, just like a real estate agent. They connect the buyer to the seller.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And so I have an amazing literary agent. And through that, you write something called a proposal. It's a document that lines out what you think the book is going to be and what you think the book is going to be about. It's kind of like a business proposal about a book. Because when you go to these big publishing houses, They kind of treat the book as an investment, so to speak.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
They see it as something of, okay, is this something that's going to have legs, not have legs? Is it going to help a lot of people or is the message not right? It's kind of why this book and why now? That's really the main theme of what they're curious about. And so I was able to get a wonderful book deal with Penguin Random House. And you have big houses like Penguin Random House.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It used to be Random House and Penguin. Now they're together. You have Simon & Schuster. You have HarperCollins. And underneath them, they have all little bitty things called imprints. So think of like a big overarching company and then a bunch of little sub companies underneath it. My imprint is called Tarture Paragy, and they're the sister to Avery. Wonderful, wonderful people, wonderful editor.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It's fantastic. They're just great. And they really helped pull a lot of my message out. And I used a book coach. His name is Blake Atwood. Fantastic guy. You can see all of my acknowledgments of everybody who helped. And what a book coach does is kind of just help you stay disciplined. They don't write the book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
They just help you organize things and be disciplined because who knows how to write a book? I didn't know. I didn't go into writing like this. So, you know, every part of my book I wrote and that was important because I wanted to sound like my voice. That was very, very crucial to me is that it sounded like my voice. And that's where you're going to get in this. I also narrated my audio book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
That was very important to me because I wanted everybody to hear the voice on how I say things. Because of all I do on social media, people have recognized my voice. And sometimes my voice is more recognizable than my face to some people. And because they only see me like this, they don't see me standing up. They don't see the sides of my face, just not that common.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So they recognize my voice, narrated my audio book. That was a three and a half day process in a studio in Houston. It was it was cool. It was different, way harder than you think it was. But I narrated the audio book. This book is also available on Audible, anywhere, Apple books, anywhere you want to get your audio book. And I have had a lot of people say they get both.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
which I've never heard before, but that's awesome. You can get it wherever you want to listen to it. So if this voice doesn't bother you that much, you can get the audio book. So that's how this process got here, how I went from making the videos in my car, people saying, hey, you should make a book. I got hit up by different agents. They're the ones that helped tell me how this process went.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Go to your favorite retailer and buy it. And let me tell you why. Because you are investing in your next conversation. There's lots of reasons why I titled it this way. And we're going to talk about that today. But most of the time you've invested in things that you just don't even think about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And then now I am here. And before you know it, this book is published. And I helped design this cover. And I have wonderful people who designed this cover, who helped give ideas for things. It's a very collaborative process when you're going through a traditional route, aside from self-publishing. So that's how I even got here. This book is lined out in three different parts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And of course you knew it was going to be three. I always give three. There are three rules for how to have a better next conversation. Rule number one, you're going to say it with control. You can't go forward in conversation without controlling yourself before trying to control the other person. Number two, you're going to say it with confidence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Rule number two is say it with confidence, meaning you're going to find your assertive voice. We're going to pull it out of you, and the result is going to be a much more confident you. And three, you're going to say it to connect. You're going to find ways to reach that difficult person and improve the way you're having conversations
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
difficult conversations to make them just a little bit easier in your life. And on top of that, I have a bonus chapter, all right? It's not, everybody doesn't know that. There is a bonus chapter in this book specific to narcissists and gaslighting and toxic people. The reason why it's a bonus chapter is because, I mean, it could really be its own, it could be its own book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It could be its own book and it just might be. Because there's a lot to go into that. I wanted people in the book I have out right now to see that this is the essentials framework. This is what I want to leave my kids. This is how I want to be remembered if I... somehow don't exist tomorrow. This is something that I'm very proud of and it is right to the point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Maybe later we're going to have, maybe there'll be another book where we go deeper and deeper into things and we're going to talk more about narcissists and gaslighting. For now, I just put it in a bonus chapter. And so I'm going to issue that. And I think what we're going to do actually is release a part of my audio book for you listeners. I think that's going to be a whole lot of fun.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So rule number one is say it with control. Rule number two is say it with confidence. And rule number three is say it to connect. Now, do I include my details in here? Yeah, you're going to find little bitty snippets of my viral videos that have most resonated with you over time that I'm going to give you a lot of how-tos. But it's not just that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So you can say, yes, he's going to give me a lot of the how-tos that I can mark up, highlight. It's more than that. I'm wanting to give you the behind. I'm wanting to give you the context. You can take your mind in difficult conversations that I can't explain nearly as well in a short 47-second clip. At the end, there's also a part that I really liked. I got a kick out of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
You've invested in every time that caffeine habit, you've invested in that mental health, you've invested in your own fitness, you've invested in work efficiency tools, but rarely if ever have you invested in your communication and how you communicate and you show up in the difficult conversations. And this book is not going to tell you just how to do it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
As I write in the very back of 47 second version, meaning if I had distilled everything in this book into a social media clip, this is what it's going to be. And I'm going to read it to you right now. Cool? Wherever you are, if you're listening to headphones in your car, work out. Rule number one, Never win an argument or you'll lose a lot more than you gain.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
When you regulate your reactions before responding, you keep a clear head and a calm mind. Rule number two, confidence isn't an act. It's an outcome. Use words and short phrases that assert your needs and protect your values without fear of disappointment. When you embrace your assertive voice, you make a pathway for more positive change in your life.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And number three, don't worry yourself over how to change your entire relationship. Focus on changing just the next conversation. When you frame a conversation as something to learn rather than something to prove, you take out the difficulty in building connection. So try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
This is something that I cannot be more proud of in this entire experience of everything that I have put together for you. And the reason why I find so much joy out of making this is because I get to share my voice with you just a little bit more. If you have purchased this book and once you read this book, It would be my greatest honor if you leave it a review, wherever you buy the book from.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Maybe it's Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books A Million, wherever you get it. wherever you listen to it on audiobook, leave a review for me if you don't mind. That's the only way that people know if something is good or not is they just look at the reviews. So that really makes a big difference to me. And if you read it and you get the book, post it on social media. Make your own video that I can tag.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
If you tag me, hashtag the next conversation, I'm able to look at it. I'll be able to grab it. and share it on my platform, which is a thrill for me to be able to share more of what my followers in the community have put out and then I can put it on mine. So that would be a huge honor. I'm also going on a book tour. So my book tour starts very soon.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
If you have not bought tickets, I think we already have Chicago and LA, I believe are sold out. So that's really cool. We're going to 10 different cities. I'll put the link down in the show notes for my tour. I'm going to 10 cities. I think we're going to, I know we're going to New York, LA, we're going to South Carolina, North Carolina. We're going to Tempe, Arizona.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
We're going to Houston, Austin, Dallas, and a few more. So that's awesome. And for any of you UK listeners, I'm going to the UK, going to London for a week in the beginning of June. Very excited about that. Going to have an event there. So this whole world is just all part of it. If you're still listening to me right now, you know that I'm just experimenting a lot with what's happening in my life.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It's going to give you the words of exactly what to say. And you will be amazed at the way you're going to show up in conversations and bring more positive and bring more of what you want in your life. You can go to thenextconversation.com to get a copy of this book. I'm honored for it. Thank you for letting me put this out into the world.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I made these videos in my car. Last season were all videos in my car. And now I have this studio where I'm still going to be making some... solo episodes, and I'll still mix it up and go do it in the car. I don't want you to feel like anything has changed. I'm experimenting with these interviews.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I was totally honored to talk to Mel Robbins, Chris Voss, Charles Duhigg, a few of these others that are, these episodes are probably going to be coming out right around the same time. And others that I have lined up that are really just friends of mine that I have developed in this space. that I'm just honored to bring them to you. But that doesn't mean I'm only going to always do that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So we're just going to try it out. And I love, love, love when you give me feedback in the comments. You go, hey, look, I'd rather I like the microphone or I like the studio. Or even if you say, hey, I prefer the car. That's all good for me to know. I want to bring content that you're going to like in a way that I can share what
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
is on my heart and what I like to talk about to you, every single person. So in this book, The Next Conversation, make your next conversation the one that changes everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I had endorsements from Andrew Huberman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Mel Robbins, Chris Voss, and Dr. Becky Kennedy, all heavy hitters and wonderful friends of mine that I was thrilled to have their endorsement recommendation for this book. I can't believe it, y'all, that this is all happening so fast. And it'll be over before you know it. We'll have today's release day.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
We're going to start on the tour tomorrow. And I think it's about three and a half weeks, nearly four weeks of that. And yes, family's good. They're going to come with me to as many events as they can. And I'm still going to be back in time to make kids happy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
t-ball games and coach pitch games and as many practices as i can i'm not missing any of that my family's all good with me so i'm still keeping my priorities there and just finding the balance as as much as i can so if you need me you can find me probably talking to you through my phone or here in your uh your headphones the next conversation argue less talk more go get it if you're interested in making your next conversation the one that changes everything i'll talk to you soon
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Hey y'all, it's Jefferson. On today's episode, I'm going to be sharing with you three must-know truths that are going to change the way you communicate and how to leverage those mindsets to improve your life for the better. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. In fact, season two of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation a
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
This is me trying to talk to you and share what's on my heart. I'm looking forward to sharing. Season two of the podcast got a lot of things coming that we're still planning on that I just, I cannot wait to share with you. Thanks for being with me. And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
that you love and people that I love that are going to also just continue to pour into you as much as they have poured into me. All right, three things that I want you to know that are going to change the way you communicate. Are you listening? Are you ready? Number one, never win an argument. Whenever your goal is to win an argument, you lose so much more every time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And it gets me frustrated, to tell you the truth, of how much I see out in the world, videos to blogs to books and magazines and articles on how to win every argument. Let me tell you right now. It is a lie. It's snake oil. It's clickbait. It's not true. It has nothing to do with real world. That's why it does not work. When you've ever seen, like, why am I not winning this argument?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Because the idea of winning it does not work. It never has. It never will. People like to say, well, Jefferson, aren't you an attorney? Isn't this kind of your day job? This is what you do for a living. You win arguments. Absolutely not. No, that's not how it works. As a trial attorney, any trial attorney who is in the courtroom, you do not choose your client's facts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
When a client walks into my door and they have, hey, I've been in an accident and here are my facts, I can't create new facts that will help my case, and I can't get rid of facts or delete facts that hurt my case. I am stuck with the cards that are dealt. Same thing applies with the law. I can't choose. I'm here in Texas. I can't choose what laws I'm going to follow or not going to follow.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
They apply to everyone here in the state. Same if the federal level or any state in the U.S. I can't choose any of that. And so when it comes to arguing as an attorney. It's more about giving the facts and evidence a voice. How can I persuade you based upon my facts and what I have in the law? And then it's ultimately up to the finder of fact, is how they call it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review, give it a like, a star, anything helps. It really does. I want to also let you know that my new book, The Next Conversation, is officially out on pre-order.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
You have the judge or you have the jury, and it's going to be those are the people who decide what's persuasive and what's not, and how are they following the law. At the end of the day, they have to follow the law. It has nothing to do about who's winning an argument. The other attorney might have better facts. The other attorney might have better law. It has nothing to do with me winning it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So it's not even the same thing in the courtroom or as an attorney. You cannot win every argument. When you do, when you set out to say, I want to win this argument, you will lose the relationship with this person. It may not be the first time. It may not be the second time. But over... time and time and time again, the value and quality of that relationship is going to continue to go down.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Here's what I mean. When you and I are fighting and we're trying to win an argument, what I've really won is your contempt. You're now mad at me, most likely. I've won your ability to have awkward silence now every time we pass each other in the hall. I still have to probably work with this person, probably have to live with this person. What have you won?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
You've really probably won the first chance. You're now the first person up to have to apologize. Often we win arguments because we said something that was over the top, went too far, below the belt, anything that made the argument stop. Just because you're the last one who speaks does not mean that you're the one who won the argument. It is just not true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So every time you try to see yourself as winning an argument, you're going to lose the relationship. You're going to lose their respect. You're going to lose their trust, their confidence. And over time, you're going to lose the ability to connect with that person when you always set out to win an argument. So instead of winning an argument, this is what I want you to do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
See the argument as something to unravel. See the argument as something to unravel, as in a knot. You have one side, I have the other, and when I'm pulling and we're pulling, it just makes the knot tighter and tighter. It doesn't go anywhere. Instead of seeing who's going to win this tug-of-war, you have to stop, put it down, and find a way to locate the not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And when you do, that's where you have the heart of the matter, where you can start to unravel and say, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. They're trying to understand where you're coming from. Then you can talk. Then you can connect with the person. It is not winning an argument that is going to change the way you communicate. It is seeing the way that you can unravel the not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I really hope that resonates with you. It's one of the main pillars that I use every day in my communication and how I see things between two people and how we connect with each other. Don't look to win the argument. You want to look to unravel the knot. You just have to be patient enough. Truth number two, have something to learn, not something to prove.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And if you like anything about this podcast, I promise you, you're going to like the book. And for the first time, I have the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication that is now out and ready online. All you have to do is just look in the show notes. I'll have all the links posted right there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Now this goes beautifully with the first point of never win an argument. Number two says, have something to learn, not something to prove. Struggle happens, difficulty happens, bad things happen in communication when I'm trying to prove something against you. Here's the fact of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
The harder I work to push against you, the harder I push to prove my point, the more hardened you'll become that I'm wrong. Because what you don't know is that behind everybody, as we're going to talk here in the third step, is there is a surface and a depth behind everybody. So if I were to say, you're wrong. Hey, you listening right now? You're wrong.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Whatever opinion you have, I'm going to say that it's wrong. But what I don't know is when I tell you that you're wrong, I could also be saying that... Your family member is wrong. Your grandparent is wrong. What you've known your whole life is wrong. We all come into circumstances with different life experiences.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So if you've been raised, maybe, let's say, in a particular religion your entire life, or you've heard only a certain political party your entire life, these are big concepts I'm talking about here. Or maybe you grew up in an area that is culturally...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
a certain way, and somebody says that that's wrong, what you're doing is just changing their whole paradigm and saying everything about you is wrong. And we will get so defensive, even to the point of refusing to listen, to be able to preserve that identity that the other person has. They will fight tooth and nail. It doesn't matter. That's why logic does not work in these circumstances.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Logic doesn't work because it is part of their identity. It is their value in their life of this is who I am. If you're saying that I'm wrong, that means my dad's wrong, my mom's wrong, my grandparents are wrong. And it ties to a whole lot more when somebody likes, let's say, a political candidate. It doesn't matter what party. And you say that they're wrong.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Well, you get a lot of people that are fans of certain people get very defensive because they've tied their identity to that person. You have to understand that you come into it with something to learn, not something to prove in that conversation. I get really worked up about these things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
truths because they hit so much at home for me like these the points that i give they're a little quick rapid things i'm always going to be giving you those i want to start season two a little bit different that does not mean i'm going to continue to to do the bigger concepts i always give practical takeaways and i'm going to give that to you here is i want you to to get used to this mindset of when you see struggle when there's friction in the communication ask yourself
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Before we go into the three things that I want to dive into, you might notice something a little bit different. The sound quality might be a little bit different. I now have a mic for a phone. I'm in a studio and not in my car. Now I want to tell you, don't worry, I'm still going to be making car videos, those daily car videos that you see and that I enjoy making for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Am I trying to prove something, or am I trying to learn something? Here's a depiction of this, an illustration I want you to have in your mind. If I'm arguing with you, I cannot pour, let's say I have a glass of water, I cannot pour water into your full pitcher. I can't pour new thoughts into a pitcher that's already full. I have to let you get it all out.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I have to ask you questions and get curious of how long have you, you know, how'd you come to that conclusion? How long have you thought like this? Things that you're getting information out of the other person rather than just trying to splash the water in their face and saying, take this and whatever, everything I say is right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Instead, you need to ask questions that get it all out, and only then is there space for you to fill it with your new thoughts. Have something to learn, not something to prove. Truth number three is one of my favorites. The person you see is not the person you're talking to. The person you see is not the person you're talking to. Like we said in step two, everybody has a surface and a depth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
The person who's serving you coffee at the cafe, maybe they served it a little late. Maybe they had a little bit of attitude. That's the person you see. But the person you're talking to, maybe should have been off two hours ago or just got a terribly rude comment from a customer an hour before and now it's weighing on them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Or maybe their kids are staying with their mom and they're in a bad mood because they don't like where they are in life. There's always a surface and a depth. People that you're driving behind, like this is for me right here, I'm talking to myself. When you're driving in the left lane and somebody's in the left lane here in the United States, You have the right lane, left lane.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Our default is typically in the right lane through a single lane passing traffic, but it's two lanes. Left lane is for passing. The right lane is for those that go slow. So anytime you want to, somebody's going slow in the left lane, it irritates me to no end, but I'm working on that. See, I can work on things too.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Well, anytime you're going slow behind a car, that's probably going to speed limit, let's be honest. You just automatically assume they are in your way. Get out of my way. How dare you be in my way? You don't know what in the world's going on with their life. You don't know what kind of news this person is dealing with.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Same way when somebody's coming up behind you, like what we call on your rear, when they are right up behind you, you think, what do you want? What do you want from me? And you get aggravated that they're trying to speed you up. So it just goes all into this thing of we like to think about ourselves. It's our default. It's natural.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I want you to see that the person you see is not the person you're talking to. So you have to get really curious about understanding that everybody has something going on that you don't know about. People you're related to, they have struggles they don't share with you. Your kids, there are things that are happening in their life that they may not share with you. Same thing with your work.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
But when it comes to podcasting and more longer form content, I can't always make it in the car. I'll still keep the episodes short. I'm hoping to keep it at the 12 to 18, 20 minute mark right in there to where it's It's something that you can listen to right in your commute, but I don't want to have super long-form content right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
You have a supervisor, an employee. There are things going in their life that you don't know. They're having conversations in their head that you aren't part of. For those that have been in relationships or are in one right now, you've all experienced this concept where somebody comes into the house, the room, the apartment, whatever, and you can just tell they're in a bad mood.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And it's not until 20 minutes into the conversation you're like, is something wrong with you? Well, it turns out what happened to them happened six hours before, and they've been living with that long before they came in contact with you. So things happen that you have no idea about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So when you go into this thing of, exactly who I see with this person is exactly who they are, and you go into stereotypes, and you say, oh, I'm going to call a spade a spade. That's fine. Do what you need to do. Understand that's not the real person. I've seen some of the toughest people, meanest looking people, be the biggest teddy bears and sweethearts. I've also seen the smallest teddy
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
may it say oldest, weakest people, be the sturdiest, strongest humans I've ever come across. You cannot judge a book by its cover. Now, I also want to make sure and take a second to tell you about a sponsor of this podcast, and they're called Cozy Earth. And the reason why I said yes to Cozy Earth is because I already use their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I wear their sweatshirts and their sweatpants. My wife loves their pajamas. I can't imagine using anything else. So if you are like me and you like to wear cozy things when you're home, you can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Three truths that I want you to understand when it comes to communication. You use these mindsets by thinking about them, taking them to heart. I want you to just take for a moment and see what has resonated with you in this conversation that we're having here. Yeah, it's a conversation. I know I'm talking to you and you're not talking back, but you are in many ways.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
When you leave comments, when you comment on any videos, I get to hear from you. For those that are part of my newsletter, you're able to ask me questions and I'm able to field those. Throughout this rest of the season, I will be answering my newsletter emails. I have lots of them that I've starred and I want to make sure that I get to. You can also join my newsletter there in the show notes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I have a little link for it there. I want you to understand that when you go into communication, applying these will change the way you think. And when you use them, it will improve your life. When you, number one, stop seeing arguments as something to win, but something to unravel. Number two, have something to learn, not something to prove.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And number three, the person you see is not the person you're talking to. Three things that are going to change the way you communicate. That's real. Those are things that are on my heart, and those are things that are outlined in
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I just want to keep it in the sweet spot until I get more comfortable with it and see what works in my life. So this is a change with everything that's coming up with the book launch, and I'm also going to be bringing you guests for the first time. I'm going to have solo episodes too. You're still going to hear from me, but I also want to bring you some guests that I know –
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
in chapter one of my book, things that really, really mean a lot significantly to me, and I hope they've shone some light, shared some light, and shed some light onto you. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm going to ask you to, again, just follow this podcast, and if you would, leave a review. I'd love to have you part of the newsletter.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And again, my book, The Next Conversation, is currently still on pre-order. If you'd like, I would still love to have any kind of feedback that you have. So if you like or don't like this studio setup, if you like or don't like the microphone, just tell me. All this stuff is new to me. This is not super fancy. There's not some big, huge team.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
Have you ever found that there are some people, there's just no winning? You're in conversation with this person and you realize there is nothing I can say that is going to appease you. There's nothing I can say that's going to make this better. On today's episode, that's exactly what I want to delve into. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. I'm coming to you from my hotel room in Chicago.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And they know internally that how they're behaving is wrong. They're saying things that are attacking your personal character. They are exhibiting narcissistic behaviors. They are trying to be manipulative. They are saying things that are hurtful. Maybe they're lying. Maybe they're just wanting to put you down. And they're doing that, and inside they know they are.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
They just really don't care about it. But even more so, they are wanting something from you. They're wanting a response. They're wanting an emotional reaction out of you in that very moment. Can you see it? Can you picture that person in your mind? Can you picture that conversation?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
What they're doing, and if we could zoom in on that moment, what they're hoping is for you to react and respond in a way that ratchets it up. If they come at you with a level three insult, they are hoping that you're going to respond with a level five. If they start yelling at a level six, they are hoping you start yelling at a level seven. They want you to do more.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
Because right now, they know that they're looking bad. They know it internally. But if they can get you to act worse... That's the key. If they can get you to act worse, well, then that's all the better because you're in that argument and it's going over and over and it boils over and you say something that takes it a little bit too far and they go, aha. I knew it. I knew you were this person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
Oh yeah. Then they feel like all of a sudden they are what? The victim. The person who started the argument is all of a sudden the one who just can't take it. They're the ones that say, you always treat me this way. You don't care about me. And they do things that are incredibly manipulative. I'm telling you all of this for a reason, all right?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
In about 20 minutes, I'm going to be leaving out that door for my book signing. And I am thrilled. I'm excited for it. Just came from LA. Actually, real quick, I'm pulling... You can see how my phone is propped up by this ironing board. I have a Wrigley Field is right out my window, so I'm really excited.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And this reason is the people who want you to be the villain, you're not going to give it to them. You're not going to give it to them. The people who want you to be the enemy. The key here is to never give them the enemy. Don't let somebody else's bad behavior affect your integrity, affect your character. What does that sound like? What does that mean, Jefferson? What do I do with that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
All right, let's put it into three. When somebody is, number one, don't give them an enemy. When they start reacting negative towards you, you will not respond with negative. Mind you, I'm not saying at all that you do not defend yourself. You do defend yourself and you stand up for yourself and you stand your ground.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
It's this mindset that I like to teach and I teach all of my clients is that you don't have to push back. You just can't be pushed over. Meaning that if just because they throw something negative does not give you any reason to, well, maybe it gives you a reason, but it's not going to benefit you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
It does not serve you to reach into your bag and try and look for something that's a bigger rock to throw, right? That's only going to hurt you. It's only going to bring down your energy, your integrity, and your character. And you're above that. So one, don't give them an enemy for reason to make you feel less. Number two, what does that do practically?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
That means you're going to distance yourself from your care of them. Simple as that. Actually, it's not simple at all. It's much harder than it sounds. These are people that even if you're related to them, even though they're in your life or maybe you work with them. You have to find a way to realize where you're going in life is somewhere they can't go.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
There's a reason why there are multiple pages in a book. There is a bigger story at play. Just because this person shows up in your life for two sentences and one paragraph and one part of the section of this book does not mean they're on the next page and does not mean they're in the next chapter. Some people need to be left at where they are in your story.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
There's a reason why when a rocket takes off and goes into space, there are things that get broken off. There are jets that fall off because they cannot go where you're going, right? And that same thing applies in conversation. I'm going to continue to be straight as an arrow in my conversation with you. And if you want to derail this, if you want to say ugly things, that's fine.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
I'm not going where you're going. And you can't go where I'm going until you correct that behavior. So three, I want to end this final thought, three, with any time that you need to look for things to say to yourself, is number one, what I like to, the phrases I like to use is to say, I'm not going there. I'm not going there. Somebody brings up something, says something ugly, negative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
I haven't been able to tour yet, haven't had time, but I wanted to take a second to talk to you about something. I'll do the whole intro here in a second, but right now, this is what I want to stick in your mind. Some people, and you notice this when you're in conversation with them, There is no piece of advice I can give you. There's not a word, a twist of a sentence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
Aside from the different techniques we've talked about on this podcast and we're going to continue to talk about, I like using the phrase, I'm not going there. It's a quick way to say where you're going, I am not willing to go. Simple as that. Two is to, I like to say, I see things differently. I remember things differently. I'm not trying to argue their point. I'm arguing their perspective.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And when they're trying to get me to a place that is negative, I'm just letting them know you're not moving me off of where I'm at. And three, what I like to use, and this is something that is one of these statements that keeps you where you are in the conversation, and I like to use this with people who are particularly like bullies, is have two things in mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
One is using the phrase, that's disappointing. That's disappointing. That's disappointing. Somebody says something negative. That's disappointing. They're trying to push you. They're trying to make you the villain. They're yelling something ugly. That's disappointing. Meaning it's disappointing for them and it's disappointing for you because you expected more. You wanted more.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And truly, that's what it is. You wanted more from this relationship, from this person. You wanted more of them. Not even so much of expectations, but a standard by which you decide how you will be treated. And when you say, that's below my standard of respect. That's below my standard of respect. Or I do not accept that. I do not accept that. In my tour, I've gone, this is my 10th city.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
My last one I was at was LA and there was this beautiful little girl, sweetest little girl that came in with her mom and she came in with these stuffed animals and she had like six of them. And of course we stopped. Anytime there's a kid, I immediately have them come to the front of the line because as a parent, I understand that I'm not having a child wait two hours, no way. And she came in.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
I asked her the name of each one of her little animals. And she told me she's just sweet as can be. And she was really dealing with bullies and people who were mean. And she asked for a phrase that she could use. And the phrase I gave her was, I don't accept that. I don't accept that. And I'm telling you this right now because sometimes...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
It might be something that even though I'm giving this to somebody, she was seven, seven going on eight, is we need to hear that too sometimes. That it's okay to say, I don't accept that. I don't accept that. She wanted me to write it on a little bookmark for her. And it was just, she was precious. I don't accept that. When somebody's trying to make you the villain, I don't accept that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
when they're saying something and wanting that response from you, understand the power is not you saying something right back in their face. The power is not you throwing it right back, just catching it and throwing it right back in their face. That is not true power in conversation. That is for the weak. That is for the people who are fine arguing with a fool.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
The true power in conversation is realizing it's not a threat to you. It never touched you, and it never will. It won't even reach your feet. That's the kind of mentality I want you to have when dealing with difficult people. They give something to you. I do not accept that. I don't accept that. It's not something I open the door for.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
That's not something that's going to serve me and serve my life and improve my life in a positive way. That's going to enhance my relationships and my future and my legacy. All right. Cool. This is the Jefferson Fisher podcast. Thank you for listening to this episode. It's called the Chicago episode. I'm very much looking forward to my book signing tonight.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
There's not a structure for a conversation that is ever going to get them to your side of the court because they are committed to misunderstanding you. These are people that... no matter what you do, they are looking for a villain. In other words, they are trying to create an enemy in the conversation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
I have a membership that's been a lot of fun. I'm getting a lot of joy out of doing it. If you are interested in continuing to push the limits of your communication, then I encourage you to join it. You'll find the links down in the show notes as well as my newsletter where I send a weekly communication tip right to your inbox once a week, totally for free. And that also will be in the show notes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
My book, The Next Conversation, of course, is out. I think we're three weeks now of New York Times bestseller, which just blows my mind. And a thank you. Thank you to each and every one of you that has left a review or a star wherever you bought the book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And if you're listening right now, and if anything I've said has given you any kind of value, I'm going to ask you to please subscribe or follow wherever you're listening from. So if it's YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever it is, I'm gonna ask you to please just follow it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
It really helps because it tells the platforms that this is good stuff to listen to, even if it comes from a hotel room in Chicago. As always, I want you to continue to improve your conversations. And if you're wondering what this is, what I'm wearing, guess what? It's called Cozy Earth. Have you heard of it? I actually didn't plan this, but I wear it all the time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
Cozy Earth is a product that they make really cozy loungewear. They make bed sheets that are out of this world. I encourage you to give them a look and buy something because their stuff is that legit. I wear it all the time and so does my wife. So you can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And you can use the code Jefferson for 40% off. It's cool. It's nice. It's smooth. This is exactly what I'm wearing to the book signing. Very excited about it. And it's not like they're making me. This is just what I want to wear because it's comfortable. Cool. All right. Well, thank you for listening to me here alone in my hotel room. Hope you enjoyed it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist
And you might have felt this in a place of kind of how I started the episode of, it doesn't matter what I say, I'm never going to get there with you. It doesn't matter what I do, no matter how many times I apologize, these are people that are looking for a villain. And this is what I mean by that. They are deciding to behave a certain way in communication, in conversation, in an argument.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
There is one place that is probably more important in your life than any other place, and it's the place that you spend the most time, the workplace. Today, I've brought you somebody who knows the workplace like nobody else. She's the most followed content creator in specifically career and workplace strategies, and I want to talk to her today, Erin McGough. Erin, thank you so much for coming.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I think passive aggressiveness may be one of the most frustrating things in the workplace. And we have a bad habit too of reading it in somebody's email or their Slack message or Teams message or whatever. And what you just highlighted is exactly right, that these people, and by the way, when I say these people, it's me included, it's everybody. We all have these moments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, we all have these moments where I'll say something passively, And I know it's passive aggressive. And in that moment, you know what? I don't really care. I'm just feeling passive aggressive. And it is nice to have people that don't take it personally. Like as somebody who's been passive aggressive, which we all have, I can see and I appreciate the people who do not take it personally.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Instead, when you're able to ask, just like you said, do you mean this genuinely? What I like to give is, should I read into that? Should I read into that? Should I read into that comment? Should I read into this? Or even asking them to say something around getting them to explain more of what they meant. Can you tell me more about that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
they will find a way to kind of like get over the hump and hopefully be more direct with you. I find that it's people that Naturally, their whole life, Aaron, have been pretty passive aggressive because they've seen that growing up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Most likely it's a family member, a mom, a dad, a somebody who in their life has naturally shown them that to get what you want somehow, you need to be passive aggressive and hint at it and then resent people for not giving it to you because you feel like you deserve it in that moment. The passive aggressive comments
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Certainly don't serve you, and they find ways to conflict and constrict communication. When you need to get something done, when something's on a deadline, we've had these people say, come on, get it out. If you've got a problem, spit it out. I find that that makes it worse most of the time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Anytime that somebody's been passive-aggressive and you say something like, hey, if you got something to say, spit it out. It just makes them...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
backpedal even further it's not gonna embrace them it's not going to get them to open up in any way but when you can say things like like chris voss who i've had on and who's a great friend he has this phrase that i love and it sounds like you have a reason for saying that sounds like you have a reason for saying it seems it seems like there's a reason you'd say that
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Well, he's a scary guy. He's a scary guy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And he has this accent is like almost mafia. Like you sound like you've got a reason for saying like, oh, my gosh, that was good. Yeah. Do you like that? Well, I spent five days in New York. So now I feel like I have a dual citizenship in New York. But, you know, when you're getting, it's the using a question to find something out. I usually will ask, should I read into that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Should I read into that comment?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, I think you're I think you're spot on. And even the what the your suggestion of did you mean that genuinely? Most people don't, they just will kind of start to explain more and more of, of what they they meant. What do you find Aaron and, and your work, you have over 6 million followers across your platform?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
What do you find most people come to you with when they say, Aaron, I'm struggling with x, y, and z?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Oh, those are awesome. One that caught my attention and one question I've answered in emails from people specifically is the how do I tell my boss that I'm leaving? How do I tell my boss that I'm leaving? So I'm going to ask, I'll ask you that, Aaron. How do you tell your boss or supervisor that you're leaving your job?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Be your own best friend. Do you hear that, everybody? I love that. I think that's wonderful. And do you say it like in the mirror or when you're driving to yourself or do you imagine a duplicate of yourself when you're thinking this?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I think that's a great technique. So let's, I want to put this in a box for us, for the listener right now. Anybody who've, you were thinking right now that you need to leave your job, you've been thinking about it, you want to go on to something else. Let's talk about how to do that. Number one, what I'm hearing from Aaron is you make time for it. It's not a spur of the moment conversation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
It's not something that you just want to do on a whim. You actually want to set aside specific time, meaning you're going to ask that supervisor or whoever, hey, I'd like to have some talk time with you. I'd like to visit with you for about five to ten minutes or so on X date. Do I got that right, Erin?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Awesome. So number two, what I'm hearing is when you need to speak with them, you don't want to do it in terms of saying, well, I'm just going to blow this place up. I'm going to flip tables. I'm going to make sure they remember me. Even if it's a horrible, toxic environment, what I pull from you, Aaron, is you never want to give them a reason
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
to say this is why we let her go because of this in other words you want to leave with your head high rather than coming out of it and let's say you just ran them upside one side and down the other you want to do it from a position of always maintaining your integrity are we good there yeah we'll have it right so far and your dignity yeah
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
yeah i think because at the end of the day it's it's it's yours i love what you said it's not about them and what they've done it's about you and where you're going exactly three what i i'm pulling away is that whenever you speak to this person you want to make sure that instead of just focusing specifically on i am leaving this job this this position this very micro moment
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
You need to discuss it with them in terms of a bigger macro element of this is where I'm going in my career. So when you can use words like career or journey or my path or this is my trajectory, then they feel less like this is one little moment, but they are now helping you along that path. And then they'll be much more open to saying, hey, great job. They're going to encourage you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Hey, I know you're going to have a great... career, I have a lot more going on rather than you just focusing on, hey, I'm quitting this job, bye, and then they're out. I think that's going to be really helpful for a lot of people, Aaron.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I never feel like, even when people have wronged me, if I can leave that relationship or leave that place, even with just waving at it in the rear view mirror. It's gone, onto the next thing, see ya. It's gonna be much better for you and your own mental health. And that's exactly what Erin's point is here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
It's not about what all they've done and you need to have your sense of justice and you need to get revenge on them and just let it all out. You can let it out, but do it on your own terms. You releasing it all to them is not going to do any good. Not going to do any good. You're already leaving. So instead, don't give them a reason for why they go, yeah, you know what? We don't really like Karen.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I mean, she's a jerk because you just justified that and how you ended that with them. Instead, it's about you. and how you're going to leave that. I think that's a wonderful piece of advice for anybody wanting to get out of where they're going and where they want to be in the workplace. Erin, thank you very much for that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
When you feel like people are specifically supervisors, like you're asking for a raise or you're asking for something that you want from a supervisor, what's the best way to handle that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
That's so good. I love that. And you know, from my world, I preach that the person you see isn't the person you're talking to. And that goes for your managers. Most managers are just employees that have just been
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
advanced i mean and that's all really anybody is unless they're the founder of the company in some way they're you and so you go okay how do i how do i handle that it's so funny how all of a sudden when you become a manager people's brains kind of get rewired where it's now an us against them like i remember coming up in my law firm the first one i was at big defense firm you're an associate
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
as you start and then you become a partner and when you're an associate you're like oh the partners never do this the partners never do that and you just have like this collective the partners don't understand me and then all of a sudden uh when you become a partner you're like oh these associates can they just stop whining Like you just, like it happens like overnight.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
You're all of a sudden like, oh, these associates, geez Louise. And you start, it does this mindset shift that's so easy to do. And the same thing happens wherever you're at. I love this idea of remembering they're just people. And a tip that I like to give people that are dealing with ones that are above them is this idea of when you ask them questions,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
if you want a raise or whatever it is, you become almost the student to them. So if you can make them feel like a teacher by asking questions of, so how did you get to your position? Or what's the best way you think for me to, if I'm interested in a raise, what would you do if you were in my shoes?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
So when you can try and put them in a position and make them feel good of, I see where you're at, and I'd love to be where you're at sooner than later. How did you get to where you are? And you kind of get them to tell their story of what they did and how they did it and when they did it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
they'll be much more receptive to having, you'll get more nuggets out of them instead of just asking them, hey, so I'd like a raise. Can you give me a raise?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I like that, and I think it's a healthy balance, too. You can hype them up. At the same time, you have to be like, hey, listen, I know you think you're great. I need to give you the truth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, when am I gonna give a raise? Because all they're hearing is, oh, you just want stuff. You just want stuff. Oh, you're threatening me in a sense of, oh, if you don't get a raise, you're gone. So I can see, talk about the downside real quick of when somebody comes out of the gate almost too strong and they're saying, if they just come right in and say, Aaron, I want to raise.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
What does it go through the employer's mind?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, exactly. You got to get going. Get out of bed. Get going. Erin is the most followed career advice content creator out there. Before we talk about some strategies, I understand you're the youngest of six kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, I think that's spot on. So often they're not the one that can do it, but you want them on your side. You want to turn them into an advocate for you. One little tweak that I, because I'm weird, you know, I'm weird about communication here and she knows this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
So when you say something like, you know, I love working here, but I'm not going to be able to continue on with the salary that I'm at. what my brain automatically does is, so how I would tweak that, is instead of the but, would change it to and I also. Because, yeah, which anybody can use for any of these conversations, and I think, and Erin already,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
knows this because you're brilliant with these tips. So if it's, I love working here and I also know that the rate I'm at is not sustainable. Like that right there is super confident. It's softer, but it's also super confident. I feel like when you're able to say, and I also know, just I have that knowledge within myself of knowing that this isn't going to be it. Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And I can also know as someone who is an employer and has been on every side of it, whenever you feel like somebody is giving you an ultimatum, like you give a raise or they're leaving, nobody likes that decision.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah. Have you seen that backfire with anybody?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah. Way when people try and push, which I support, and you do too, of stating your needs of what you want, I want to raise. That's wonderful. I love that you're able to voice that. When you push it on somebody of... I need a raise or I'm gone. They will do it. They'll do either one of two things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, so what's like the age difference between them all? And I'm the oldest of four. So hearing this perspective is really cool for me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
They're going to refuse it because of the way you asked right there, because then they're going to start to automatically, they're going to put you as a, we're us and you're now over there. You're not part of us anymore. You don't want to be part of the team. Or two, they're going to do it and agree to it and acquiesce because you put them in a position that's very difficult to
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And they're going to resent that they said yes. Because it's funny how, and I know you and I have spoken about this, how when you're the employee, the employer never pays enough money. You can never get enough. which is not necessarily true, but you get the sentiment. Versus on the other side, when you're the employer, you feel like you're already paying too much.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Because now you're thinking of, I have to afford the business. It's not just the employee. I have all the taxes I have to pay for all the costs of goods sold. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. If you offer benefits, if you I mean, if not to mention, you're going to have all the different sales tax, you have your employer, like everything that goes into it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And you're thinking, I have to think of this whole entire world. And this person only is just wanting another dollar, but they don't understand. They think that they're only asking for a dollar raise. They don't understand the implications on blah, blah, blah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with either side. Nothing at all. I absolutely, and I know you believe the same, everybody should be paid a wage that is reasonable to them and an honest wage that reflects the work that they do and the value they bring. That's what good businesses do and that's what good leaders do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
But it's funny how we have such a way of flip-flopping depending on what side of the table we're sitting on, especially communicating that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I think that's wonderful. And that's what you do. I mean, that's why you have the following that you have. And that's why we're friends. For anybody listening, she and I kind of came up together at the same time, you in your workplace world, me in my communication world. And it's just been awesome, Erin, to see what you do and the people that you help. So if You haven't.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
That's incredible. That's awesome. And growing up, what did you find? How did you think that shaped your communication and your drive growing up now?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I want you to go follow Erin McGough. She has incredible content for workplace and career advice. And it's just a pleasure to have you on, Erin. Thank you so much for spending some time with me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Thanks, Erin. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I can definitely see that. And I think that's why your career advice content does so well is because you have, as you know, we have a very short window of time to give a whole lot of information to people. And
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
like with my followers, we get a lot of value out of what you could say were scripts, like how I would I tell people, instead of this word, I want you to flip it and use this word, or maybe the structure of a sentence, I want them to reverse it, or replace a certain phrase.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And so I could see how, as the youngest getting that word and being really quick on your feet is very strategic when it comes to communicating in the workplace.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, I know. We were encouraging each other along the way as we were each growing. I know you have over 6 million followers across all your platforms, which is incredible. And it's been really fun to cheer each other on along the way. So congratulations with everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
All right. So as the most followed career advice content creator, where do you draw your experience from, Erin?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Oh, that's awesome. Very cool. So mine, I'm like the opposite. Mine is 0% researched. And all, you know, from from my world in the communication and litigation courtroom world, whereas you are more of a, a encyclopedia, like library resource of all the tools that people can use and go to when it comes to the workplace and career, right?
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Oh, yeah, it all is. I mean, that's why I end with so try that. It's not it's not you must do this. It's just you can try it. If you don't like it, you don't have to. I want to get into a topic, Aaron, that I know that anybody in the workplace has dealt with before and continues to deal with. And that's specific to interviews. I know you're very, very versed in interviews.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
This is the question I want to ask. How do you handle the what's your greatest weakness interview question?
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Shout out to mom. What's mom's name?
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
So I think that brings up such a good point. When anybody, a supervisor, somebody interviewing you is asking that greatest weakness question, what I hear you saying is you need to see the issue behind the issue. They don't really care about your weakness. They're wondering... Where are the problems with you? Where are those? Can you talk about those red flags?
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Oh, that's right. That's right. Claire, love that you're from Texas. Thanks for following me. That's awesome. This is one of my favorite kind of conversations when I can talk to other creators who are similar in space because it could be a very lonely space when you're getting into it. And this is a question that I ask just about every one of my guests that I have. And this is the first question.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And I love how it's, you need to talk about something that's concrete and preferably something you're working on. So it's not like the, my... My weakness is I'm just too honest or, you know, I'm too much of a hard worker sometimes. Like you try and use it as a compliment. I think that can definitely go wrong. I'm a perfectionist. Yeah, I just do everything perfectly. That's all you're saying.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
But if you can put it in terms of, like you said, I have a hard time delegating sometimes, or I occasionally try to work too fast, and that might cause me to miss a few things. I think that what I also take away from this, Aaron, is when you can have that moment of honesty to say, it's not necessarily my weakness, but this is a thing I'm working on.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I think that shows a lot of self-awareness that that's what really employers are looking for.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah. I think that's a great point. And see, so I have a law firm and we have about 15 people. And then I also, most people don't know this, but I also have a restaurant and a coffee shop. No, no way. And so, yeah, I've had it for, I think, six years now. Oh my gosh.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I don't know, Erin. Don't ask me.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
And I got kids and a wife and a family and everybody. And so, yeah, the... I've hired a lot of people. That being said, and I've also had to let go of many people. And often what I find so valuable for people that are wanting to get hired is when they admit kind of the rougher edges of their personality. Because much rather than be honest with me up front,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
and then later on finding out, oh, they're not really who they said that they were. So if somebody can admit up front the thing that they're working on, so if it's working on slowing down my pace, I'm working on paying more attention to detail, I'm paying attention to how sometimes maybe I'm a little bit too blunt, maybe I'm too direct. I think those are all things that are natural and normal.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
I go, oh, okay, very cool. Well, now it also informs me how to interact with you and how you, some people like to be, need to be kind of coddled in a way, like to have the, you need to kind of hold their hand. And some people, they need the, they need the tough love.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Today's episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth. I like talking about them. I like having them as a sponsor because I wear their stuff. I am wearing Cozy Earth pants right now. It is raining cats and dogs outside and these are athletic type pants. that I really, really like.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
So if you know anybody who works in the office and you're always wanting to wear something on the go, Cozy Earth has clothes. It's really great for any kind of weather. I wear these to the office. I wear these at home, wherever it is. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Specifically with communication, Erin, how does Erin McGough talk to herself? Like, I want you to share with people the, how do you encourage yourself? What's the self-talk like before we start talking about how to engage with everybody else?
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
My only tip that I have that I like for interviews in my own arsenal is using confident instead of saying, I think that I'd be good or I believe I'd be good. It's I'm confident that I'd be good because then the interviewer is like, oh, well, then this person sounds confident. And then that's what they write right underneath your name on their notes.
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Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work
Yeah, it's funny how just using words naturally relates that value item to them. Here's another question that I'm very curious about, specific with your expertise in the workplace. How do you handle a passive aggressive person at work?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast. If you would, leave a review, give it a like, give it a star. It all matters, and it matters certainly to me because I look at it also.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Use words that are negative in the first part of your sentence, and that's going to flip for them to have to answer also in the negative, rather than try to say something positive in the beginning. Would you agree with that? That's perfectly described. Yeah, well, I think that's a... And I'm going to do that in my own life. Also, I want to make sure we get this.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
This is Tactical Empathy on Netflix? Yes.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Amazon. Sorry, Amazon. I'm going to put that on my cart. I want to bookmark that. Yeah, record it in my memory. I think that is one of the just magical ways by just a simple turn of phrase will create so much power in the conversation that the other person really just has... No clue about it. It's still the same thing.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
You're still wanting to get that same information, but you're using the fact that we naturally want to say no because no is very comfortable. Not that they're trying to turn you down. It's just no is more comfortable to say. And so by using that to your advantage, you're going to get more of what you want. There's something else that you teach that it's called an accusation audit.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And tactical empathy is right in line with my mission in the world. So thanks for putting this out here for us. Yeah, man, it's my pleasure.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I love these. When I first read the book and saw that, I was like, this is brilliant. For anybody who has not heard what an accusation audit is in your world, can you just tell us?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah. You say be liberal, like be creative. Be creative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
to really get to the heart of the matter really quickly because it just deactivates and disables the negatives and inoculates for many that may pop up you don't know what just my nerd weird communication brain like how much i love i love this so much uh i've been dreaming of this conversation with you uh
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
What is the one thing that somebody can do in their conversation that is going to apply the principles of an accusation audit? And let's put in maybe a home scenario and a work scenario.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I have a quote that I pulled from your book. Now, anybody listening right now, if you if you don't have never split the difference, you're missing out on something that I'm going to tell you is going to immediately make you a better communicator. especially when it comes to positions of negotiation. And that doesn't mean just in the workplace, also means at home too, and it's this right here.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
What I find so fascinating about this is that it uses our contradictory nature. If I was gonna tell you, you're probably really exhausted today, naturally you're gonna be like, no, I'm not exhausted. You naturally want to find another word. Oh, no, I'm not exhausted. I mean, I'm tired, but I'm not. We naturally kind of just have this contrarian sense to us, some more than others in our lives.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And it just plays to that so well. Like if I was going to tell you where, like you talked about the bad way to do this, the wrong way to do it is to say, I don't mean to offend you, but now you've only almost confirmed that you will, you've almost guaranteed you will now offend them. Right.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
But if you come at it from, you're probably going to think this is offensive, but, and then tell them that now they're going to think like the contrarian in the heads goes, no, that's not offensive. No, you can't offend me like that. Now they have to push against you.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Do you find that it's this contradiction that we like to have of just natural disagreement with somebody, no matter what it is, it's like our gut instinct. And it's that disagreement that makes this work so well.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
For those people who negotiate, who view negotiation as a battle of arguments, it's the voices in their own head that are overwhelming them. I love it because I think there's so much truth to that, that people get so caught up in that anxiety because it's not what you're saying. It's the voices in their own head of what they're telling themselves.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I love that. Yeah, Judge Judy, what an icon. Something I want to make sure and bring up so that my listeners can hear this. The phrase, sounds like there's a reason for saying that. Sounds like you have a reason for saying that. What is the power behind that phrase that somebody can use immediately in their next conversation, and what will that do for them?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Listen, I care about you. If you're listening to this podcast, I care about you. And because I care about you as somebody who also loves communication and conversations, I know that you can't just have all these conversations in your head. Yeah, I can give you advice, but sometimes you need more. You need to talk to somebody else who's trained in helping guide you through this.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And that's where therapy comes in. I go to therapy. It's incredibly helpful. And a sponsor of this podcast is BetterHelp. What they do, it's an online platform where they can connect you with online therapists. All you have to do is fill out a quick questionnaire, and they match you with a therapist. And if it doesn't work out with somebody else, they can easily switch you to somebody new.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
But the point is you're getting it out now. and diving deeper for better answers. Because conversations come with questions. Therapy comes with answers. You can go to betterhelp.com slash jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash jeffersonfisher. I find that in my world, I cross-examine people in a deposition.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And if I say, sounds like there's more to that, which is very similar. I mean, it's the same type of method here. They always have a reason for saying it. They always have more behind it. And I think you're absolutely right. It's such a good way of getting more information out without making them defensive, like making them feel like you're on the attack.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I want you to expand on that some more because I love this quote.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Here's a question I got. What is the Chris Voss way of handling passive aggressive people?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah. When you say labeling, define that for us real quick, how you apply that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
If you have any feedback or topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments, and I'll be happy to look at them. My book, The Next Conversation, is officially out. You can find the links down there in the show notes. And on top of that, if you're looking for ways to continue to further and practice your communication skills, you can go to the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, it feels very related to the whole sense of, like we said, correction. They'll want to correct you. So if you do something as simple as labeling of, I'm feeling like you feel nervous about this conversation or you feel uneasy about this. It's just you labeling that, they're going to correct you and go, no, no, I'm not uneasy. And they give you the truth versus you trying more to –
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
skate around it so labeling is just a verbally saying out loud what you're sensing and feeling in that moment exactly yeah well said one part of what i feel makes chris foss chris foss is what i guess the younger kids would call the vibes like you have this vibe that you know is your vibe where did you grow up by the way uh small town in iowa i'm a small town iowa boy Got it.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And it's, I don't know where your accent comes from. Is it, I don't know how Iowans sound.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah. But it's this, this tone that you have that like, if you had told me like, look, I just want to, I want your couch. I'd be like, no, Chris, you can't have my couch. I know it's a great couch. I shouldn't have it. But, I just, I really like this couch. And I feel like, gosh, you know what? You sound so good, Chris. Here, you can take it.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
It's, what I'm getting here to is just the power of the voice and the volume and the tone. which you just have a signature style on. And I know that you talk about that as something that you were trained on, you know, that late night DJ voice. So what kind of lessons can somebody take from slowing down their words and lowering their volume, regardless of their gender?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I find that it's this... This sound, when you can hear it in somebody's voice, you just think to yourself, I want them on my side. I don't know what they have, but listening to it, I want them on my side. What I try to picture often when somebody is communicating, I kind of apply a music style. Like if I had a CD album for this person's voice, what would I apply?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Would it be something very Frank Sinatra? Would it be something super loud and crazy? Would it be hip-hop? What is the vibe of this person? And it all takes different walks of life. Some people are not for other people, and some people are easier to listen to, and some music is easier to listen to. So I think you're spot on with having the ability to slow down
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
is going to make people more drawn to you. Would that be right?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
You have just been such a truly a legend in how the way you've turned, in my view, arguments and negotiations on their head of just, that's not how we think about them, but it's the way you, the techniques you teach are really, I just find groundbreaking. To the person right now who is thinking, I don't want anybody to disagree with me. I want everybody to agree with me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I want every conversation I have, an argument that I'm in, I want to win it, and everybody needs to go along with my plan. What would you say to that person right now who feels like they always have something to prove in the conversation? Yeah, you're driving people away from you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I think you're exactly right. This idea of when you're trying to come in and prove everything and push people away, like you said, you're only draining your own bank account, bank account of life. And I think that's wise wisdom. All right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
What I learned today in our conversation, and I wish this was seven hours, is that one, it's easier to get questions answered when you flip them to get a no rather than a yes. And one way to do that is is you can begin with a negative in your question. That's going to help get a negative response to keep you down the road. Second of all, accusation audit.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
It's a way of simply saying how you assume that they might be feeling in the conversation. And the idea here is one way they'll actually correct you and tell you more of what they're feeling behind the scenes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Or three is labeling, and that is simply visually saying out loud, it seems like, it sounds like, it feels like, of what you're perceiving, that's also going to get them to open up in this conversation. Chris, did we hit it? Did we cover it? Well said, brother. Very well said.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Man, it's the best. It really is from somebody who this is just like my, I feel like I'm a minor league baseball player talking to Babe Ruth. I think it's just so cool. It's kind. I get so excited talking to you and love what you do. Thank you for coming on the podcast. It's a true honor. Thanks. Pleasure's mine, Jefferson.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, there's something about the voice inside your own head. It's how our brain does that. I really don't know. It doesn't matter. It's going to happen anyway. What's the voice that you're listening to and what's really your gut? You have this line about... Getting a no isn't the end of a conversation. It's the beginning. What is the importance of getting to no in an argument or a conversation?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Do you find that...
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
it's just because i mean as as we were little kids i mean for anybody listening i know if you have your own kids or you remember being a kid we just have a gut reaction and go no even if you know like to my son this is your favorite meal what are you talking about and he's just no or my my daughter just decides she no longer loves strawberries i'm like you couldn't eat enough strawberries yesterday it is this sense inside of us where
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And it has been a complete ball of fun in there. I have live classes. I have an AI that teaches you things to say. And you can practice on all the videos and a library of resources at your fingertips. You can find those down in the show notes. Have you ever been in a conversation that really felt like a negotiation or almost you felt out of your own depth?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Maybe it's just our own independence. Where do you think that comes from, this desire for us to immediately just go, no, I'm going to go for what's safe, and that's not filling me right now. I need to just say no.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Right. And that's really what's happening. Just, it feels good to say it. I think that explains it perfectly. You have a way of, which is, is brilliant of asking questions and, to get to a no. For those listening to us right now, what is the importance of flipping a question to get to a no rather than finding a way for them to say yes to it?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Well, I brought you somebody that is the master of all negotiations, Chris Voss. You know him, you love him, former FBI negotiator, author of Never Split the Difference, an international bestseller and CEO of the Black Swan Foundation. network, a group. So focus is to improve your negotiation skills, no matter where you're at in life. Chris, my friend, good to see you again.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I think that's just so cool. I mean, just how funny to use how our minds naturally work. I mean, for a wonderful, positive way. It's just finding how our own idiosyncrasies and our defaults of saying no. If you're anything like me, when you get home, you wanna take off your work clothes and just get comfortable. One of my favorite sponsors of this podcast is called Cozy Earth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And the reason why I went with Cozy is because I already use their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed. Right now, my wife loves her pajamas. I, when I get home, I take off my suit and I put on a hoodie and some sweatpants. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. And for this weekend only, March 14th through the 16th, you'll get up to 45% off on Cozy Earth.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 45% off to celebrate World Sleep Week. Nothing better than that. For people listening right now, what are some great lean-ins or let's say lead-ins for how they might begin a question to flip it to no? So how would you teach somebody to begin a question to get a no answer? I've heard you say, are you against?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Would it offend you? Would you hate? Is there a certain way? What's the magic behind it?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, I can learn some things.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, Jefferson, absolute pleasure. I always enjoy talking with you. Yeah, it's so cool to be able to talk. You're such a hero of mine. I know I've told you this. We've been able to have a friendship outside of this right here. And it's just been a huge role model to me. So I want to make sure I have it on the record. I've always loved your stuff.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I think a good takeaway for how to get people to answer no is to begin with a negative in the first part of your sentence. So instead of asking someone, is it a good time to talk, is now a bad time to talk. So you find ways to flip the positive words and the negative words. Would it be terrible of me to ask you this? Would you be offended by, is now a bad time?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Now, we all know people that no matter the conversation, they always find a way to talk about themselves. And even if it's not about themselves, it always seems to be their voice that takes up the entire conversation. On today's episode, we're discussing how to handle people who dominate conversations.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Filter as in you're going to summarize what they just said very quickly and then pass it to somebody else to say, hey, I totally hear you. I understand what you're just saying. I'm curious to hear what Bob has to say or what Susie has to say or you turn it on yourself. My thoughts are, and number three, if they're still dominating the conversation, then you've got to put a time limit on it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And if anything, it's going to give you a little bit of some space and the people around you so that the other person isn't controlling the entirety of the conversation. So hopefully that doesn't happen too often with you. And I know that those little tips right there, they are going to help you, Elise. I really appreciate your question.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
All right, thank you for listening to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast. And if you would, please rate it or give it a review, a star, a thumbs up, anything helps. If you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. I'm the one that looks at them and really appreciates it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And those that listen every week, every month, it means so much to me, truly, from me to you. Thank you very much. Today we learned how to handle people who dominate conversations. We learned the right way to interrupt them using their name. We talked about filtering what they said and summarizing and passing it. And if you need to, you can always put a time limit on the conversation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
You have to find a way to get out of there because you're not reaching them. So it's as easy as saying, hey, I've got about five more minutes and then I need to get going. I need to do other things. But time limit is the only way to make sure that they're just going to continue to talk as long as they have an audience. And at the end of it, you just have to understand...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
When somebody is dominating the conversation, it's not a two-way street. It's a one-way street. It's a monologue, and you didn't buy a ticket to hear it. So if they're not going to respect the way conversations should happen, it's time that you respect yourself. And most of the time, these kind of scenarios happen in meetings. Zoom meeting, in-person meeting, it doesn't matter.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Where I see it most is in Zoom meetings. Because now after COVID with everything, a lot of the legal world has moved to Zoom where everything is virtual. And I'm sure that's the same way in your world. But what typically happens is that there is, let's say, a dozen people, ten people, eight people on the Zoom. And before you know it, it's just one person talking the entire time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast. And if you would, please leave a review.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
It's one person who always has an opinion. It's one person who always has to feel like they're contributing to the conversation way more than their share. And they think truly, inside themselves, they just don't have the emotional intelligence to realize that people aren't really... They're kind of getting tired of you talking the entire time. That filter isn't there for them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
So they just keep talking the entire time. And in meetings especially, you have to make sure that person doesn't do that because it'll just kill your meeting. It'll ruin it. It will reduce productivity. It will get people aggravated. You know that feeling where all of a sudden they need to come in again and everybody kind of lets out a sigh like, great, this person again.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Oh, geez, I wish we could just go. it'll absolutely ruin your meeting and the productivity and where you want to go. So when that kind of thing happens, you have to step out in front of it the first time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
If you just let them drone on because you're afraid to offend them, you're afraid to come out in front and feel like that's being too direct, then you just have to be okay with a bad meeting because it's not going to happen. Also, Understand that when people are dominating the conversation, it's often a sense of insecurity.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Like most things, we feel that the more we talk, the more intelligent we are. The more people will see how smart we are, how much we're trying to contribute. But often what I find in meetings is the person who speaks the most is typically the one that knows the least. It's the person who's the least out of touch.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
So they have to overcompensate and feel like everybody around them can have some kind of faith in them. So they talk a whole lot. But often the more you say, it just shows the less that, you know. So you're going to be careful about that in your next meeting. But here's the takeaway. When somebody is dominating and trying to control the conversation, you have to step out in front of it quickly.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Because if you don't, it can go south in a hurry. And I hear some of you already going, Jefferson, I don't feel comfortable interrupting this person. I don't feel comfortable interrupting them. They're going to get upset if I interrupt them. No, they're not. They're going to want to stop and listen. Maybe they might be a little bit frustrated, but your purpose is true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
If you have a suggestion for any kind of topic that you'd like to see covered, just throw it in the comments and I'll be sure to read it. I also want to let you know that my new book, The Next Conversation, is officially out for pre-order and you can find links down there in the show notes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And here's how I'm going to help you with that. When you need to interrupt somebody, there's a difference between me just starting to share my thought. Let's say, for example, you're talking to me, telling me a story. I've heard this story a million times. There's a difference between me cutting in and going, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we all know. We all know, okay?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And then just ignoring you and continue to go on with my thought. That's going to upset you, right? That's going to make you feel like, oh, they just interrupted me. They just cut me off. But if I were to use your name and say, Jefferson, I need to interrupt you. All of a sudden, it doesn't feel like an interruption because I told you what it is. I told you that I'm interrupting you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And I know we've discussed this before on the podcast on how to handle interruptions, but it's the same truth for people who dominate conversations. If I tell you that I'm interrupting you, if I say, I know I'm interrupting or I need to interrupt you, nobody takes offense to it because here you're acknowledging what you're doing. It's the acknowledgement of the formality. Say, yes, I understand.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Typically, I should not be interrupting. I should be hearing you out. And in this case, you have to because they're not respecting the formality of I say something, then you say something. I say something, you say something. It's just all about them. So if you think about it in a pie chart, There's these people who control the conversation to hear their own voice a lot of ways.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And they're totally fine with taking up 98% of the pie and leaving 2% to you. Really, for that 2% to tell them how great they are, how smart they are.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
not going to be doing that here it's as simple as using their name because it's going to get their attention they're going to perk up to that to when you say hey jefferson it's going to automatically turn turn to you they're going to look at you especially the more you raise your voice in that way but you're going to do it kind you're not going to do it in a way that is rough or rude or just exasperated that's going to that's going to make it go further south here
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
You are pulling them back in, in a way, nudging them back in to how a conversation is supposed to go, especially one that you're going to be involved in. Because understand, what you're doing here is also informing them, hey, if you want to have a conversation with me, this is how this is going to go.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
When it comes to somebody dominating a conversation, and not in the good way, as in they're not letting anybody else speak. They're the ones always having to hear their own voice. There's some things I need you to do. Number one, interrupt them. You interrupt that person. Now, I know it doesn't sound like me to suggest that, but it's true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
I'm going to say something, you're going to say something, and we're going to acknowledge each other's points. I'm not here. I didn't buy a ticket to listen to the show where I just sit and you get to say everything and I have to be quiet. That's not it. Here, you are showing them your manual. If you want to communicate with me, this is how you're going to do it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
So, when you use their name, it gets their attention. And it's an easy way, if you feel like you're being too direct, to tell them, I need to interrupt you. Mind, this is a big key, this is a big key point of this, mind you. Do not apologize for that. Look at me. Listen to me. Don't apologize. Don't say, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. You are not sorry for it. You are not sorry for it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Here, you need to do it. It is them that has put you in this position. So you're not going to apologize for having a boundary. You're not going to apologize for needing to take a stance and say, this can't continue. Cool? So you're not going to say, I'm sorry. It is, I need to interrupt you. That is as simple as that. Or I'm interrupting you. I know I'm interrupting you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Both of those will even allow them to go, I'm listening. It'll totally turn into you and they're not going to take offense to it because you're acknowledging it in the moment. And one point I want to make very clear. is that once you interrupt them and filter and pass it, part of that is the acknowledgement.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
It is key that when you need to take the conversation away from somebody who is dominating and monopolizing the conversation, You acknowledge what they have said. Summarize it very briefly, even if just one sentence. Because otherwise, they're going to feel totally shut down and dismissed, and it's going to lead to negative things. I don't want that for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
You can simply cure that by summarizing what they just said. For example, let's assume that... You are talking to me on a given topic and I interrupt you. Let's say your name's Jefferson. Weird name. Such a lame name. And I need to interrupt you. And I just go, hey, Jefferson, Jefferson. And then all of a sudden I just start cut off my thought and I go, hey, Jefferson, I want to hear what
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Lauren has to say about this you hear how all of a sudden I just felt you feel cut off from me if I were to say hey Jefferson I want to yeah I want to hear what Greg has to say you're going to feel cut off immediately instead if I said hey Jefferson I hear you I agree that this point and that point and that point or I hear you that this is something that is frustrating you I don't disagree I like to hear what so-and-so has to say on this point
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
I summarize it. I say, thank you for what you've shared. Again, I'm distilling it to the important point. And then I pass it to somebody else. Or you can pass it to yourself easily. It's just as simple as saying, hey, Jefferson, I hear your point. I'm not saying I agree with it. My thought here is blah, blah, blah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Because if they're not going to respect your time, then you have to do it. And there's a particular way I want you to do that. You interrupt them by using their name. You start low and then you go higher because people listen to their name. Their name gets their attention. It's the best word they can ever hear is their name.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
You're just taking it because you've acknowledged what they've said, and then now you're passing it on to the next one because they're not sharing the ball, right? They're hogging the ball the entire time. So it's on you to kind of kindly take it from their hands and pass it on to continue playing the game. Otherwise, nothing is going to happen.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
I also want to make sure and add a disclaimer in here that people who monopolize conversations and dominate them, it's not necessarily on purpose. It goes back to what I originally said is it's an insecurity. Bottom line, it's an insecurity type thing that they don't realize how much they're talking.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
I find in my world that it is people who get older in life and don't realize how much they're talking. It is also the plain sense of let's approach that situation with some grace so that you may be the only person they've spoken to.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
You might be, if it's somebody who's older and they haven't seen anybody today, and you're now the one that's going to be talking to them, they might have a week's worth of information of stories and things that they just want to share. Because in that moment, they have a reason for... feeling like they're alive and valuable and important and you're going to be the one to focus in that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
If that's the kind of situation, then you just need to be patient. It's that moment where instead of going, oh, this is such a waste of time, being reflective of saying, I need to slow down a little bit. What's here for me? So understand there's always two sides of the same coin, especially for even people that are neurodivergent and they have ADHD.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Maybe they have other kinds of issues that make it difficult in the way their brain functions to not stop talking. And that does not mean that it's a weakness. It just means it's something to learn and to deal with differently. And that's my whole point of this episode. It's not that people who dominate conversations are evil and terrible.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
It is simply that it happens naturally with everybody, including yourself. And that just means it's something to handle and react to and respond to in a very productive and efficient way. Alright, we're now at my favorite part of the podcast and that's where I get to read a question from a follower. Those that are part of my newsletter are able to email me and I'm able to email them back.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
And those that ask questions that are applicable to whatever podcast I'm going to make, I am able to...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
pick one out and tell you about it so this is me reading it pretty much in real time this one comes from oh also if you want to be part of the newsletter but put the link in the show notes so love for you to join it all right this one comes from elise elise is in the uk i assume it's pronounced elise All right. It says, Jefferson, thank you so much for your tips. They are lovely.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
So if I were to hear you and I or somebody was listening to me and I just said, hey, Jefferson, Jefferson, Jefferson. You say it as often and as loud as you need to because it will eventually make them stop. Number two, when they do stop, I want you to filter and pass it. Here's what I mean.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Well, thank you, Elyse. I have an issue with a co-worker, actually a boss, who likes to dominate the meeting. He's always talking and it's quite boring, actually. And I'm not sure how to handle it with love. Any of your advice? Cheers. Well, that is a very lovely email. Thanks, Elyse. I totally get you on when a boss is a superior is talking too much. At least that's hard.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
That's a little bit different because you don't really have any authority. They're the ones that it's within their scope or they're the ones that are superior and higher level. And so they have the freedom to say what they want to say. If it's their meeting, they can run the meeting how they so choose. And that's just the simple truth. If you want to...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Turn it down a little bit with somebody who's a superior. I would recommend that you, if you can, try to limit the method of the communication. So if it needs to be an email, ask for you to join by email. Ask for you to join by Zoom so you can maybe turn your camera off and do other things. There's not really too much you can do with a superior. You can interrupt them, but that goes to the...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
The relationship you have. If your superior, your manager is cool with you, you say, hey, look, I need to interrupt you. My thoughts are X, Y, and Z. As long as you are acknowledging them. And one tip I would highly recommend, Elise, is one thing that can get you out of...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
a conversation where somebody is dominating it but you still want to leave it on good terms and you don't want to offend everybody is thanking them. Just simply thanking them. Thank you for telling me that. Thank you for sharing that with me. It is an indication when you say thank you that it is over.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
Most of the time when you say hey thank you so much for sharing that with me it's kind of a reprieve and a stop and then you can get out of the conversation if you need to. It allows you to kind of have an out. So when you say thank you to somebody, it's like getting a gift as if you're telling them that the whole conversation they just had with you was a gift in some way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
So they gave it to you and you're saying, hey, thank you so much for telling me that. Thank you for sharing that with me. And now you can kind of transition to, look, I need to get going. I have X, Y, and Z. Another thing to do with a boss, again, it just depends on the scope, time limit. Like I said in number three here on this episode, time limit is your friend. And
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
If you can put the time limit and associate it with something you have to do, like some work that you have to get done, an email that you need to get out, a project that you have on, they can't really complain about it. Because here you're saying, hey, look, I know I'm interrupting you. I have about five more minutes than that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle People Who Dominate Conversations
I need to get back to X, Y, and Z so I can make sure I finish this today. Yeah. finish the report like you wanted, get that done, meet your expectations. When you can tie it to something with work, they're not going to complain about it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
It is normal, in fact it is natural, to be nervous before a conversation. But how do you handle that? What do you do to be less nervous? Or what do you do to make the conversation go more smoothly? Well, I have some ideas and we're going to talk about that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I'm telling you this because. I'm telling you this because I love you. I'm telling you this because I am your friend. I'm telling you this because I care about you. You see how that's so much more honest and more putting your cards on the table than this idea of, look, you know I love you, but... Oh, hey, look, I know I think you and I are good, but... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Build them up in conversation to where they are on level footing to meet you eye to eye. And sometimes that means bringing them down. Nothing wrong with that. So next time you are in a conversation that you're feeling nervous about, I want you to understand it is totally... Natural and normal, all right? Number one, you're gonna use the phrase, I can tell. I can tell I'm feeling nervous.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
That will naturally pull them down. Two, do not use phrases like, you may take this the wrong way, but, or don't take this the wrong way. I don't mean this as disrespect. I don't mean this as rude, but all you're doing is just making sure they are. Instead, label it as their own feeling, like their projection. you're probably going to take this the wrong way. Or you probably think I'm being rude.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
That right there is going to make sure that they don't. And three, use your breath. Use your breath and say, I'm telling you this because. I'm telling you this because I care. I'm telling you this because I care about this company. I care about your leadership. I care about this organization. I'm your friend. I love you. Whatever it is, you're telling them why you're
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
is laying that card down on the table. And when you do that, more often than not, they're gonna start laying down theirs and you're gonna have a better conversation. Cool? All right. Try that. And as always, you can follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
And I said, yeah, I actually was. Cozy Earth, as you know, is a sponsor of this podcast. And I wear their stuff all the time because it is so doggone comfortable. I fly in it, and that's what I was wearing at the time. And people know from listening to my podcast. You enjoy clothes that are comfortable. Go to Cozy Earth. All right. I promise you, you will not be disappointed.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. I used to go Jefferson for 40% off. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson for 40% off. It made me laugh so much that they, that was the question. She came up to me and whispered, are you wearing Cozy Earth? I was like, yes. I am. They're awesome.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I have a membership that I run, an online membership that I started about two months ago, but I haven't been blasting it out and let people know because I just want it to grow organically. And it has been so much fun. It's been so much fun. And I had a question in it yesterday. See, I have every month I do two coaching calls and a masterclass with this group. And
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
And if you ever want to be part of it, you'll find the links there in the show notes to be part of the membership. And I'd love to have you or the newsletter. I give a lot of the tools right to your inbox weekly. You can find all those tools and links down in the show notes. The question in the membership was, how do you handle conversations when you're nervous before them?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
It's totally part of our fight or flight, our fight or flight of what do you do when you're nervous. And here's what I want you to remember. This is what I want to go through in today's episode. Tell them. Tell them whatever feeling you're feeling, get it out. So let's break it down into a traditional one, two, three, right? We like those. I like those.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
you already know what podcast this is welcome to an early morning episode this is during the book tour i'm doing this early before my kids wake up so if my face looks like it's still waking up it is just go to audio only if it's not not working for you because i'm trying to wake this thing up Here's the thing. You listen to this podcast and it means so much to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Number one, whatever you are feeling, whether it's nervousness, whether it is anxiety or frustration, tell them. Listen to me. Tell them that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
What happens when we try to keep our emotions in, whether it's defensiveness, frustration, anger, resentment, nervousness, when you try to keep all your cards close, like you don't want to show them what they are, what you might have heard the term keeping your cards close to the vest or to the chest, it's a term of I'm wanting to hide something and not give them to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I want you to download this into your brain right now. The more often you keep your cards close and you do not show them, the more frustrated you're going to be and the more contempt you're going to have for other people and the more of a victim mindset you're going to have of that, they should understand me. They should already know. I shouldn't have to show them my cards.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
That is a recipe for poor communication. That is a recipe for a poor relationship. Get in the habit of telling people how you're feeling in the moment.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
you can say okay this is how i'm feeling here's this card here's this card here's this card the other people the person you're talking to will also naturally say well this is what i'm feeling and this is what i'm feeling and this is what i'm feeling and they start to lay their cards i'm not saying you need to divulge your secrets no i'm not saying you need to just be a complete waterfall of information no in fact if you know that you follow my content
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
that I suggest don't be a waterfall of information. You be a well, something to where if how you're feeling, you share it one at a time, one at a time. So what does that sound like? Me making sure that I'm sharing my cards. I teach that if you claim it out loud, you control it. And I say that because it's true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
We talked about this in the membership, and I love talking about it now, and I'm going to have a story for you in a second. This is what it sounds like. When you say, I can tell. I can tell. That means when you go into this nervous conversation, I want you to think in your mind. This will be helpful. Think in your mind right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Maybe you're walking on a treadmill, you're driving, wherever you are. Think in your mind of a time you've been nervous before a conversation. Heck, I'm guessing, maybe, just maybe, you're listening to this because you're feeling nervous about a conversation coming up right now. And if that's true, this is what I want you to do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
As soon as you sit down for this conversation, or maybe it's on a phone call, or maybe it's a text, I prefer it not be, but if it's a phone call or a meeting someone, begin with this phrase. I want you to say, I can tell blank. I can tell I'm feeling blank. It's what it sounds like even more. I can tell I'm nervous talking about this. I can tell I'm feeling upset. I can tell I'm feeling anxious.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I can tell I'm feeling unsteady. I can tell I'm feeling distant. You see how you're saying what you're feeling rather than acting upon what you're feeling. And that gives you the power to control it. It does two things. One, it gives you the power to control it, meaning you get it out and the other person knows about it. You're showing that card. They're going to show their card.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
And you feel like you have a little bit more control over the conversation because you said it. There's a difference between me saying, let's say I'm feeling defensive about a situation, and all of a sudden I just go, that's not true. That's not what I mean. Wait, wait, wait. You think that, and I start getting defensive. That's me acting on it. True power says... I can tell I'm getting defensive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
As if I'm taking that emotion, that card, and I'm putting it on the table. And I'm pointing the person to that card on the table and say, that right there, that's what I'm feeling. It's not what I am. I'm not acting out loud. I'm not raising my voice. I'm not drawing out the spikes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
And what I have found is that so many people listen, but they do not subscribe or follow the channel or whatever it is, or they don't rate it or review it. That really makes a big impact on me. And let me tell you why. Because when you subscribe or you follow, it tells that platform, hey, this is good content. People like this. So if you find value...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I am, with emotional intelligence, pulling that card out, putting it on the table, and saying, that's the card that I have right there. What's your card? And that's what people do. They naturally want to reciprocate that every time. This is what I mean by reciprocate. Have you ever, for anybody who's a parent, in any situation, you've talked with a child.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
A child comes to you and they're running and they're upset. You can tell they're upset about something. Do you as a parent go, what's wrong with you? Stop that. Stop that right now. What are you doing? You don't even know the situation yet. You're just going, what are you doing? Get out of here. Go. I don't want to see this. No. I hope you're not that way. I hope nobody's been with you that way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Most of the time what happens is you lower your guard and you go, what is it, baby? Wait, wait, wait. What is it? What's going on? Just tell him. You upset? Tell me. Like you naturally, all of a sudden, want to regulate your system to match theirs. That's what happens in everyday conversation. When you can tell them the, I can tell I'm feeling nervous.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Does the other person go, good, I hope you are nervous. Yeah. No, they don't. The natural reaction is, no, it's okay to be nervous. What's going on? What happens? What do you have? It's okay. See, they naturally regulate their system. They will mirror how you're feeling. There is a attorney that I know, and I know it's not a strategy, but it's brilliant, and it works, and I've seen it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
He is not an attorney of... He's not very tall. He's a smaller guy. And when he gets in front of people, he gets extremely nervous. Yet, it makes him incredibly effective in the courtroom. When he goes in... And you might have, I've seen it where somebody else he's against is big, grandiose, taking up lots of space. He takes up very small space.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
When he goes up for an opening argument, this is what he says first. He kind of almost shakes in his voice, which, of course, you know this happens to a lot of people, is he'll go, hey, everybody, I just want to let you know I get very shy and nervous in front of other people. But that's not going to stop me from representing my client.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
You hear how everybody in the room starts to root for that guy. everybody in the room starts to root for that guy. We as humans love to root for the underdog, don't we? When you see somebody performing and you can tell that they're nervous, everybody in the whole crowd just kind of starts to cheer for this person and root them on.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
That's what happens in little bitty moments of conversation is we want them to do well. It's okay, get it all out. Let's talk about it. So when you can say, I can tell I'm feeling nervous about this, Nine times out of ten, I'd say even more than that, the other person will regulate their system and you'll have a much smoother conversation. And it's just more open.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
It's way more open where you can say, I can tell. I had a very good friend of mine, one of my closest friends, she had a call with a teacher for her son's school. And she used the exact same technique.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
technique that i have talked to her about previously of i can tell i'm nervous about this i can tell i'm i'm nervous about this conversation i'm an easy about this conversation and you know what the person on the other line said they said no it's okay no no problem yeah let's just talk it out no problem it's like everybody starts to roll up their sleeve and say okay hey let's let's just let's just talk about this and it pulls down their defensive you see how that's way different than all of a
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
In my mission of trying to help people improve their conversation, I'm going to ask you to please subscribe or follow this. It's not a big commitment. It's not anything. It is just a click, a touch of the thumb. If you ever want to unsubscribe later, you can do that. Not a problem. It means so much to me when you rate it or leave a review. It really does. I read them all.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Number two that I really want to leave you with is this idea of when you try to use this phrase right here, when you say, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but whenever you say that, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but it is guaranteed they're going to take it the wrong way. It is guaranteed they're going to take it the wrong way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Hey, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but I can promise you they are. I can promise you they are. What I want you to do is flip that to saying, you're probably going to take this the wrong way. And they won't. Here's the magic of that. When you try to come out of the gate with information that you're nervous about and you're afraid they're going to react strongly to, there's this
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
feeling that we have to say, hey, I don't want you to be offended by this. I don't want you to take this the wrong way. I don't want you to think I'm being rude, but, you use that word but, but just has a way of deleting everything you said before. Like, I love you, but I can't do this. Like, it just erases everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Whenever you say, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but they will take it the wrong way. All they're doing is telling their system of, you should take this the wrong way. But when you tell them this phrase, when you begin the sentence with, you're probably going to take this the wrong way. In their mind, they go, no, I won't.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
We are so wired in our brain to contradict what you're telling me. I will want to think the opposite. If somebody says this is going to be a really difficult problem or difficult conversation, we naturally go, no, it's not. I'm going to make sure you know that it's not. I'm going to want to disprove whatever you say. We love the contradictory. We love to correct people.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
We love to prove that they're wrong. We like to show them that it's differently. And whenever you say, you're probably going to take this the wrong way, they naturally in their head think, no, I'm not. I'm not going to take it the wrong way because I'm going to prove you wrong that I'm not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I promise you it works because it takes advantage of that natural reaction that we have to want to correct people and want to prove them wrong. When somebody says you can't do that, what's the first thing you think of when somebody says you can't? Oh, yes, I can. Just wait. Just watch. You will change your whole life trajectory if somebody says you can't do something just to prove them wrong.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Prove to them that you can. And sometimes it's yourself. I did this to prove myself that I can do this. It's funny how defiant we are. And when you can use what we have naturally to your advantage and leverage in the conversation, not in a bad way, but just knowing that's how you can better set yourself up. Instead of this, hey, I don't want you to be offended by this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
It's guaranteed they're going to be offended by this. But when you say... you're probably going to take this offensively or I know this is going to offend you. They won't. They won't. They will find another way in their mind of going, no, this is I'm going to disprove it to you and find that it's not cool. So that's another little technique that I really like.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Number three, what I want to have the takeaway for any time you're having conversations where you're nervous about them is because you are not breathing enough. I know I talk about breath and communication because it is part of communication. It is not separate from it. It is all expression and air that comes out of your lungs and out of your mouth. That is part of communication.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Make no doubt about it. It is part of communication. Pauses, breath, it may be the absence of words. It is not the absence of communication. You know this. When somebody goes, makes just a big exasperated sigh, what does that cue into you? Exasperation, frustration. Somebody just lets out a breath, rolls their eyes. That is all part of communication.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
Whenever you're feeling nervous, that one, it's a good thing. I want to make sure I tell you this. Nervousness is a good thing because it means that you care. It means that you care. Often it's the feeling of, I want to make sure that they still like me. That means you're going to lead that conversation with, I'm nervous about telling you this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
I'm afraid that you're not going to like me at the end of this conversation. You see how, I know it's vulnerable, but it is incredibly powerful because the person even makes sure that they say, no, no, no, no, we can continue to talk this out. When you lower their defenses, they will regulate their system to match your frequency whenever you are forthcoming and honest about it. Using your breath,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Handle Nervousness Before a Big Conversation
is a way to make sure that you take those feelings of nervousness and release those into your body and remind yourself, I'm saying this kind of stuff because I care. That's why. Even when you lead with that, it is as simple as that. I'm telling you this because I care. I'm telling you this because I want to have a good relationship with you. I am telling you this because. That's the phrase.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
today's podcast is a personal episode it's one where i'm going to share some things that have meant a whole lot to me this past year in 2024 now it's 2025 the end of season one of the jefferson fisher podcast and some really cool updates from me stick around welcome to the jefferson fisher podcast where i'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
And the positive impact that I've been able to make and you've been able to make by the way that you improve your communication bit by bit and how you've dedicated yourself to learning more about improving your communication, we're making it a better world. And that's really what it's all about. Just one better conversation can make it a better world. Just one conversation at a time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
I truly believe that. I look back at the season one of the Jefferson Fisher podcast. And I've been so excited about it. It was number one on the charts for several weeks. It always does well. And that's, again, because of y'all. Season two, I'm really excited about it. We have a lot of things in the works. And this year is going to be pretty wild. 2025 is January of 2025.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
Come March, my book comes out. It's the first book I've ever written. And I wrote the book because of you. Because you asked me to write it. I got comments and emails asking me to write a book. And it finally happened. I had no idea about how to write a book before all of that. And it's coming out. And they have me going to nine different cities across the U.S.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
And then after that, a tour over in the U.K. And I've never been overseas. So hopefully those that are listening right now, I'll be able to meet you in person. The list will come out of all the tour dates and everything, the tickets for it. And I think it would just be so cool to be able to shake your hand, take a picture, maybe sign a book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
I think it would just it would be a really cool experience. So you're hearing me say all this genuinely, authentically for the very first time of these thoughts that I never had imagined that they would come around. So season one, what it's taught me in the podcast is that you have to keep going with it. It's me in my car. There doesn't have to be anything fancy to doing a podcast.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
You just need to share something of value that you want to give to somebody. So if you want to start a podcast, I encourage you to go do it. Season two is we're going to change things up just a little bit more so that... with my schedule. So I hope you can understand that we're going to have to be a little bit more flexible with my time. I might be coming at you from an airport.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast. If you would, please leave it a review. As always, if you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. My book, The Next Conversation, is officially out on pre-order and you can find the links for it down in the show notes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
I might be coming at you from a hotel room with all the things that are going on right now. Also, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. I'm going to be launching a membership that I'm very excited about, a school of communication. You're going to get lots of, you're going to hear about that
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
soon enough, but I want to go ahead and tell it to you now, just as a sneak peek, that's going to be coming really soon here in the next week or so. So look out for that. And on top of everything, I'm going to get to go to some really cool places to speak. And my hope and dream is that one day I get to meet you and just say hello. That would really mean a whole lot to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
If you would, if you're still listening, what I'd love for you to do is in the comments, Just tell me who you'd like to see be a guest on my podcast. Yes, I'm still going to do the little snippets of just me by myself giving some tips. But I'd love to hear on top of that to mix in some other people that you might feel would be a great fit for the Jefferson Fisher podcast.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
I love hearing your thoughts. I love seeing your emails. If you're not part of my newsletter, they're in the show notes there. You can always sign up. I love to email you, see what's going on in your life. And I just wish you all the best. Season one under wraps at the Jefferson Fisher podcast here to many great things in season two.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
As always, what I want you to remember is have something to learn, not something to prove when it comes to your next conversation. All right, y'all be good.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
And on top of that, next Wednesday, that's January 15th, 2025, I'm going to be putting on a free zero cost online masterclass. You can sign up for it. The signups are down there in the show notes. And if you can't make it, no sweat, no big deal. I'll send you the replay again, free of charge.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
It's going to be a little bit less than an hour for anybody who's interested in improving their confidence and communication in 2025. I hope to see you there. 2024 was an incredible year for me. So many things that I never saw coming and you were a big part of that. For anybody who's listening to this podcast, please, please close your eyes and just accept this from me. Thank you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Last Word
From the bottom of my heart, I'm giving all the gratitude and appreciation. Thank you for being such a big blessing in my life. For a guy who makes videos in his car after 10 years of being a trial attorney, still going to the courtroom, still doing depositions, I never saw any of this for my life, never imagined. This is where I could go.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Who you're around is how you'll sound. Today we are taking a deep dive. We are having an audit of ourselves, asking who in our life influences how we talk. Today we're going to break some generational curses, yeah? We're going to ask and see how not only we communicate, how we were influenced by those who came before us, how they communicated and how that shaped us.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I wear these at home, wherever it is. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. Today, I want us to look at and take a moment. And this is something I don't think we talk about nearly enough, that how I communicate, you know, I sound a lot like my dad.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
If you remember the first guest we had on the podcast with my parents, you heard my dad and you probably thought, oh my gosh, Jefferson sounds just like him. Well, that's how genetics work. I have a lot of his mannerisms as well as my mom, and I sound a lot like him. And most likely you sound very much like one of your parents. even though you may or may not want to admit it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
That's just the way life happens. But there's another element, right, of who is in your vicinity, who is in your environment, who you are around. They also influence how you're going to talk. My dad was somebody who, when I brought something up to him and I had an issue, he would like to say, well, we'll see. It was always kind of this hopeful, positive attitude. Let's just just wait. I can't.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
There's nothing you can do right now, Jefferson. There's no decision. It's kind of what the signal he was giving. It's not what he said, but it was this idea of you can't change it right now. So there's no sense worrying about it. So he always kind of had this, well, we'll see type of attitude.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
If there is somebody who I was afraid to bring something up because they're going to be disappointed, I go, oh, well, they're going to be really mad. He goes, yeah, well, I guess I guess they'll be mad or I guess they'll be disappointed. I mean, it was just this mindset that he had of just keep rolling with the flow that I also got. And I was very blessed that way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I'll be the first to say extremely blessed that way. There are other people I know who have wonderful communicators in their life and other wonderful environments. You look at how... different places you've been have shaped how you talk to people.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I know attorneys that I knew in high school, or excuse me, not high school, in law school, and they go onto a firm and they change their entire way of speaking. Or I know friends that I do know from high school who went on to go work on Wall Street or corporate or finance. And you know their whole vernacular changes, their whole vocabulary. People go in real estate or teachers or whatever it is.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
We have acronyms. We have different terms. We have all these sales, optimization, strategy words that we use for particular things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
influences in our world and that shapes how we talk if you're in sales or hr whatever it is take an audit right now so number one number one today's podcast is take an audit that means ask yourself the question how and who is influencing my communication and let's let's go even deeper who am i around For the vast majority of my day, let's put it in a pie chart, in a pie chart.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
And we are going to decide today in today's episode,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
If you had percentages all around it, pie chart is a circle. Who am I around most of the day? It's usually not your kids and it's not your spouse or your family. It's work. It's work. Or maybe you work from home and you're mostly by yourself. And maybe it's the cat. I don't know. There is somebody you're around that is influencing how you speak. Put it differently. Who are you listening to?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
that we are going to do better for the next generation so that they can do better in the next generation you ready welcome to the jefferson fisher podcast i'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything if you enjoy podcasts like this and enjoy this kind of content i'm going to ask you to please subscribe and follow this podcast if you have any topic suggestions just throw them in the comments
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Let's go to music. What kind of music do you listen to? How is that influencing how you think about things, how you communicate things? My grandfather, who's a district attorney for a long time, and he used to not be, he was in private practice. And then when he went to go to district attorney, his whole life, His vocabulary, of course, started to change.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
And everybody at the courthouse was, what, cursing? What did he start to do? He started to curse. And he never did that before. And as soon as he left that area, he never did again. So that's the way it happens. I know friends that have terrible ways of communicating because that's how they're doing it at school.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
work they have ways that it's just weighing on them in some sense because there's that peer pressure or this maybe the sense to fit in this is my point in this part of the episode is just to take an odd of who are you around Who are you around? Cool. Two, I want you to write the names of people. You don't have to write them if you're driving or anything, you're working out on a walk.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Just think in your mind. People are going to come up in your mind. Who are the people who have positive influences on you and the way they communicate? Names are going to immediately come to mind. These are people that put a smile on your face when you think about them. Who are the people in that sphere who have positive examples of how they communicate?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Maybe it's they just, they make you feel happy. Maybe they speak kindness. The reason I use positive is because this is what this podcast is. It is a way to build positivity into your life. The good kind of healthy positivity. And right now we're taking a healthy look at what could be some bad factors in your life. Maybe you're having a hard time thinking of somebody.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Maybe you're around what they call the negative Nancys, the people who always see things as half glass empty, the people that are always doubting you, the people that are always putting you down and therefore you're starting to think differently. Well, I'm really not that cool. I'm not that great. No, don't worry. And you're starting to put yourself less and less and less.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Find a person who you want to emulate. Of course, there's going to be people in your life that you just tolerate. in your circle. They're part of the friend group, but they're not really your friend. They're somebody else's friend. Or maybe you just placate them. It's a relative that they're there at the family get-togethers, but you really don't care that they're there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
They don't care about you, and you don't really care about them. It's part of the exchange. I want you to think of people who make a difference in how they communicate to you and how you want to emulate that. Three, I want you to think of the words that no longer serve you, that no longer serve you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Because what I'm asking you to do in this audit of this episode is at the end of it, I'm asking you to find people that raise your level of thinking, raise your level of conversation, raise the level of things that you talk about. My there's somebody who's one of my oldest law school friends. She always had this little sign on her laptop, like the bumper sticker.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
And it was it's something along the lines of I get high on intellectual conversations or intelligent conversations. And I always really liked that because. It's, yeah, me saying I like to meet people, make connections, friendships with people that raise my level, raise my standard of what not only I think about myself, but what I communicate, what I talk about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I'll be sure to give them a look. My book, The Next Conversation, is five times New York Times bestselling book. It's incredible. I've been so excited about it. The book tour is finally done. You can get yours wherever you like to get books. I'll have the link there in the show notes, as well as my membership.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
If I talk about small things, I will think small things. If I'm around friends that talk about big things, I will talk about big things. If you're around somebody who's always gossiping, always nagging, you know what you're going to do? You're going to get negative and start nagging and get negative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
But if you're around people who are always thinking positive, they're always thinking positive momentum, things they want to build, things that they're about growth. People about growth, they invest in you and you invest in them and you all grow together. So this is a time that I want you to... Maybe you haven't taken that time yet.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
So maybe this is the first time you're actually thinking about this. And if so, that's wonderful. I'm happy to be part of it. I want you to think of... The type of people that are going to raise your level of thinking and raise not just the thinking, but your vocabulary. I'm not saying you have to learn new words. We're going back to number three, and that is choosing the right words.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
It's not about knowing fancy words. It's about knowing the right words. Words that no longer serve you. Meaning, if you're always somebody that goes, I mean, maybe so. I don't know. I mean, I guess. No, we're going to scrap all of that. That's not building positive momentum in your life. You're using phrases like, I'm looking forward to. What I'm excited about. What I care about. What I need.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Things that are moving forward in your life. Can you hear the difference? Whenever you start thinking of phrases like, I'm confident that. Instead of, I believe so, I guess so, I'm confident that. All of a sudden, you've built in confidence to it. These phrases that give authority to you, whether it's like words, like direction. Direction's a great one.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I don't like the direction of this conversation. No, I'd rather take this in a different direction. You are the captain of the ship when you do that. Start finding phrases that lead you to the captain of the ship more often if that's what you want to do. You can use any AI. You can Google.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
What are words and phrases I can put in my life that change my sentences to be more positive, more uplifting, less half glass empty and more half glass full in my life? And you're going to find words like fulfilling. You're going to find words like confidence or words like experience fulfilling. Words that build you up as part of that growth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
If you're looking to continue to learn tools, to practice, to train, I'm going to encourage you to join the membership. I have two live Q&As and hot seats in there, as well as masterclasses to continue your learning and training as a lifelong learner. Today's episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth. I like talking about them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
And I want you to consider looking for other people in your world, in your sphere, that you can just prune your tree. Prune your tree of the people that bring the negative in your life and start, I was going to say fertilize, but Lord, let's not do that. I barely just got this thing replanted, this fiddle leaf fig that I got. You want to find people that are going to add water.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I'm removing the plant metaphor right now because I'm not that kind of, I'm not there yet. You want to find people that are going to pour into you, that are going to help you grow. It's going to help you grow. Like a tree. Okay. Rule number one, I want you to take an audit. Audit of yourself of who has influenced how I speak. Is it my parents? Is it the people I'm around? Is it where I work?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Two, I want you to find the people and focus on the people that speak positive language around you. Be more like that and find out why they speak that way. What is it about them that speak that way? I'm not saying you have to mimic them. I'm not saying be exactly like them. That's not my point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
It is that you want to remove the things that do not serve you and do not uplift you and things that are weighing you down and add more of the things that lift you up. All right. Three, find words that serve you better, that push you towards personal growth. Because what you want to do is find people that raise your standard, raise your level of thinking.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
Raise your vocabulary and not just using fancy words or using very intelligent words. No, you just need to use the right words. And those are words that are going to bring light into your world and light into the world of somebody else. Because after all, isn't that what we're all about? That's what I'm about. All right. Be good. If you have any questions, just put them in the comments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How Your Inner Circle Shapes Your Communication
I like having them as a sponsor because I wear their stuff. I am wearing Cozy Earth pants right now. It is raining cats and dogs outside. And these are athletic type pants. that I really, really like. So if you know anybody who works in the office and you're always wanting to wear something on the go, Cozy Earth has clothes. It's really great for any kind of weather. I wear these to the office.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast, and if you would, leave a review, give it a star, a like, anything helps, and it matters a whole lot to me because I look at it all.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And it's through that change that we have those positive outcomes. I've also heard it where it's rejection is misdirection or redirection, I think is the right term for it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yes, it is that whenever you have that internal struggle. instead of seeing it as, oh, I just, this is the worst thing. I can't believe this, my life is in shambles. Flip that mindset to say, my body is at work. I am going through growing pains. This is, I am coming out on the other side of it. My body is preparing me to be a different person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It is the metamorphosis of how you're gonna be growing. I mean, it is, you are in your cocoon at that moment. I mean, so I love that concept. This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. Now, the whole reason I haven't found out about Cozy Earth is because I already use their products. Their bed sheets are on my bed right now. And let me tell you, they're the most comfortable thing I've ever slept on.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I wear their hoodies, their sweatpants. My wife loves their pajamas. So if you're like me, and when you get home, you just want to... Chill and be cozy. Look no further than Cozy Earth. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson, and you can use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson, and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Really excited about it. Mel, as you know, and we've had the chance to establish a great friendship, which I'm so grateful for, is that the people that are listening right now care very much about how they communicate. And the question I first want to ask you is, how important is self-communication? What does Mel Robbins mean? say to herself, how does Mel Robbins talk to herself?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I want to make sure that we go into some things that I know without a doubt are going to help every listener here. There is something that is right now a phenomenon in the world. And if you don't know about it, I'm going to tell you, you've been living under a rock. It is Mel Robbins' book, The Let Them Theory. I have my copy right here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Number one New York Times bestseller, number one on Audible, number one on Amazon, number one Sunday Times. This is the year of Mel, and I already have my ticket. So if you're not on it, jump on board because it's going places. I love it, Mel. I love what you're doing and what you're putting out to the world.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And I think that it's just, it's come to a place where it's almost has a life of its own. I mean, it's just an absolute movement. What I want to ask for those that are listening, again, we focus on the communication aspect. is at a very root level, would you explain to the listener right now, how does the let them theory improve their difficult conversations?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It's so simple, and it is yet incredibly powerful. Now, I have some of my own personal stories I'm going to share with you of how immediately— the Let Them Theory just kind of came to light in my own life, in my own stories and experience. What I want to ask real quick is a question that maybe a listener has right now, and that is, where is the balance between applying Let Them Theory
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And also making sure where you can hold somebody accountable. Is there a way to use let them theory too much to where you're going too far with it? Have you ever seen somebody maybe apply it too far to where they're almost being too passive?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
So true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yeah. Yeah. When we text somebody, I wish we would just normalize the thinking about you, hope you're doing, hope you have a good day. Just something as simple as that. When we often text somebody with the expectation of getting that gratification back on us, that I am such a good friend, I am such a good person, I am such a caring relative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
When we really did it, we really texted them so that we were a little lonely. And we needed somebody to say, you're such a good person rather than just giving it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Also, I want to let you know that my new book titled The Next Conversation is officially out on pre-order. It is a book that's going to give you everything you need, the power to change everything in your life simply by what you say next.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Absolutely. And miscommunication happens in 100 conversations that never happened. Like that's, it is this, that's the key element of what I'm hearing is miscommunication. most often it's the little bitty things. It's not the big, huge conversations. It's the very small, little bitty conversations that are going to carry the day. I love that, Mel.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
The let them theory, the just phenomenon of a book, if you have not bought it, I am recommending right now, while you're listening to this episode, go click the buy and deliver it to your door. It's worth it. And it applies to everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Some things that I wanted to share, Mel, there are some people that think that the Let Them Theory has to apply to these big, big moments in their life, just like we were talking about. And what I felt, and I know what you have said, and I've just been glued to your work, is that it really does apply in every little scenario.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And what it thought of in my mind, and I just had such a wonderful role model in my life of my parents. So my dad would use this theory and not even, it wasn't even the let them theory. So I would bring something up to him and I'd be like, well, they're going to be mad if we do that. And he'd say, yeah, they're going to be mad. I said, well, no, they're going to be angry.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
He goes, yeah, I guess he'll be mad about it. Like it was just that. Well, I guess he'll be mad. Yeah. Or this is one that would always get me. We'd be driving down the two lane highway and somebody he's driving. I'm in the passenger seat and somebody right on his bumper. And I feel anxiety while I'm looking in the side mirror. I'm like, okay, dad, you gotta speed up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And I mean, without missing a beat, he would just kind of pull over onto the shoulder and he would say out loud, go on with your bad self. That's what he'd say every time. Go on with your bad self. And so it just, it's like that now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
We all, everybody who's listening, if you're a driver, you know what it's like that you have somebody that's either wants to pass you, you want to pass them, and you're very vocal even when you drive of everybody out there. They're either going too slow, You need to go faster. Somebody's right behind you, and you're going to take that as some kind of challenge.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Let them theory applies, especially in these micro moments that really have nothing even to do with one-on-one communication with another person. It's that self-communication that we talked about at the beginning, that it's often just letting them go, and you're going to let me take the next step. Do I have that right, Mel?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
As somebody who gives advice on a lot of different formats on how to connect with people and how to handle conflict, often some of the most important conversations are self-communication, what you say to yourself. That's why therapy is something that you need to be doing. I go to therapy. There's nothing wrong with it. It's getting conversations out of your head and just talking about it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It's more helpful than you think. A sponsor of this podcast, BetterHelp, is an online platform that helps connect you to a licensed therapist just for that purpose. And it's real easy. All you do is just fill out a survey, and they connect you with a therapist that's right for you. And if it's not a good match, no problem. They'll, at no cost, fix you up with another one.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And it's very important to get these conversations out of your head. Relationships come with questions. Therapy comes with answers. You can go to BetterHelp.com slash Jefferson Fisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. I highly recommend it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
He'd say, go on with your bad self. Go on with your bad self.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
So good. So good. I love these moments of you turning what would be an exasperated sigh into let them and let me take an intentional breath. Let me turn that into something that is really going to serve me and my purpose of where I want to go rather than I have no control. Let me just let out a sigh that is letting everybody know how
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
aggravated and annoyed I am and how much of an inconvenience they are. I think that is incredibly powerful. I want to make sure that before we go, again, we're talking about The Lethen Theory, amazing book written by Mel and also your daughter. I don't want to forget that. It was a critical, integral part of the book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
That's wonderful. That's got to be so special.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I love it. And this goes perfectly into how we try here in my podcast. I always try to give a very practical tidbit of advice that they can use in their next conversation. And after I read The Let Them Theory, a phrase that came to mind for me over and over again is the phrase, I don't need to change your mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
So when you're in conversation with someone and there is that time where they kind of disagree and you're having that hard friction, if you can just say, I don't need to change your mind. Like that to me, is one way, one of many ways to express that let them. Because what you just said was so key to anybody who's listening. What Mel says is the absolute truth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
The more you let people be who they are, the more you can appreciate them, the more you can love them, and the more room you make for more positive in your life. So a phrase like, I don't need to change your mind. I don't need to change your mind. It is a way of allowing them the freedom saying, let them before, like you said, Mel, the next step, which is just as critical, is to let me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And that's where you have the accountability side of it. Mel, what are your thoughts on that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Right, because originally they might be thinking like, oh, well, I kind of wanted you to, like I wanted that fight. I wanted you to, I don't need to change your mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yeah. That's amazing. One of the many ways they use the let them theory in real application. Another thing that if people are wondering, how do you use this let them? The way I see it, people who want up you, let them want up you. If they're going to stonewall you, Let them one-up you. And people who refuse to apologize. The people that, you know, they could apologize.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It'd be so easy, but they're just not. It's one of those you just let them. So what is, Mel, what would be the one thing that you would want to share with people the listeners here, when it comes to communication and people that are saying difficult things, how do you love the difficult people? I know that's one of my favorite chapters in the book is how do you love difficult people?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
On top of that, if you're looking for ways to further and practice your communication skills, I'm going to encourage you to join the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. It's an online membership and it is popping.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Mm-hmm. so many incredible nuggets and wisdom on our time here today and mel as somebody who appreciates communication uh i have to tell you very grateful for what you communicate out into the world and how you do it and that's why Millions of people listen to you every single day. So I want to tell you, thank you for all that you do and you put out.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Thank you for writing and putting out a wonderful, amazing book, The Let Them Theory. And of course, for me especially, thank you for being on my podcast. Thank you so much, Mel. Appreciate it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Thank you, Mel. I feel it. Thank you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I love that. Yeah, thank you for taking us on this 360 journey. I love Dr. Julie Smith, whose new book, Open Wind, is out and is wonderful. It was so much of how you put yourself out there. You're very open about your anxiety, the self-doubt, so many things that you didn't learn about yourself until much later in life. So what would you say...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
To the person listening to us right now who, if they were in the room with us, would say, Mel, I'm getting close. I feel like I am on the edge right now. I've almost hit my limit. I am at a place where I feel lost. What would you say to that person who is struggling right now, and where do you draw from to give them the encouragement that there is more for them ahead?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
right now y'all a lot of exciting things going on there wonderful things and i'm really excited about it you can find all the links down there in the show notes and i hope you enjoy this episode have you ever found yourself struggling to let go whether it's what somebody thinks about you how they treat you or what they say to you or maybe it's the choices and actions in their own life
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Well, today I've brought you somebody who needs no introduction. She is a mother of three amazing humans, a wife to a husband, Chris, for almost 30 years, and an attorney whose experience is in criminal defense up in New York City.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Wow. I mean, there's just so much in there. I feel like that could have been an entire episode, just those three points right there. I mean, that is such good, wonderful, applicable advice that anybody can use right away and the way they see things. In my world, what I like to teach is that it's conflict is your catalyst for positive change everywhere you've been in life. It is
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
You've lost that relationship because of a conflict that has led you to a new one. You've had a conflict that has caused you to leave that job to create a new one. That the civil rights movement is from conflict that has happened where somebody says, I mean, our whole career as attorneys, somebody says, you know what, hey, I don't like that. That's not right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
So you decide to share a story, and after it's over, your friend turns to you and says, Oh, that's nothing. I got one even better. This one time, and there they go. You've just been one-upped. What do you do in that situation, and how should you handle it? That's what we're going to be talking about on today's episode.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
So we're really going to be careful about it, talk about how to stop it when it's happening to you, what to do, and more importantly, to make sure we don't do it ourselves. Number one, the first time that somebody one-ups you, you're going to let them. Let them one-up you. Because the truth is, they weren't really listening to your story to begin with.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
They were only thinking of what they wanted to share to one-up you while you were talking. You're going to just let them do it. Because it's also informing you some really important information. And it's this. This person... who's one-upping you, may not be someone who you need to continue to share things with. Somebody who's not going to really be all that happy for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
So you're going to just let them do it because you're going to hear in your mind insecurity. That's what it is. Most of the time when we want up, it's because there is an insecurity that says, I don't feel like now I'm good enough, and now I need to share something to make me sound better, that they feel that I'm also important, that I also have value. It's this kind of competition.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review. If you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Like two kids trying to say who has the better art project between them. Like with my two kids, my son and my daughter. My son's a little bit older. My daughter is always trying to compete and so is my son. And so we really work to discourage that. But it's kind of that same concept of... of you also want to feel like you're adding value and that you're also important.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
So when somebody's one upping you, when you see it as insecurity, it takes away, keeps you from getting defensive and takes away that feeling of taking it personally. That, oh man, this is, how could they do that to me? Can't they see that I'm sharing the story? Oh, they just wanted to show how good they are, always putting me down. Instead, you flip that mentality and go, what am I missing here?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Ask the question, where is the insecurity? Where's the insecurity? What needs are they not getting? Yes, it doesn't matter what they look like. It doesn't matter how much money they have. You and I both know people that have a lot of wealth in life in terms of money and success, but they have little wealth when it comes to intrinsic value within themselves. They're still unhappy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
They're just not happy with their home, their friends, their family. Wealth comes and success comes in many different ways. Y'all know this. But when you hear that insecurity and you hear that one upping, that's what I want you to think of. Where is this coming from? And you just respond, well, that's great. That's good for you. I'm happy for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
And just let it go and know that this is not somebody that you're going to continue to share things with. That's why number two, I want you to just put your settings to private. When somebody ups me, I don't try to say another story. So if I say something that's a two, and they try giving a story that's a six, I'm not going to go, oh yeah, well I got one even better than that, and go for a nine.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Because now I'm just doing it to them. Now it really is a competition. Instead, just understand... I'm not going to share stuff with this person anymore. I'm going to make sure that I'm not going to overshare. I'm not going to share this with this stranger or this worker that I know or even people that are within your own family.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
I have members of my own family that if I share something, doesn't matter what kind of success it is, they will bring up a success of their own that should have been better in some way if life had just been differently. And just have a hard time being happy for somebody. And you really can't control that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
There's no phrase I can give you that's going to make somebody else more happier with their life that they can be giving in their praise and giving and thankfulness of hearing your story. And number three, if you get one-upped and you're sharing something with someone, it's okay to just lightheartedly go, well, that's great. You know, I wasn't trying to compare. I was just wanting to share.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
I also want to let you know that my new book, The Next Conversation, is officially out for pre-order. And there in the show notes, you will find the links. Now, in case you aren't familiar with the term, you're certainly familiar with what it feels like. One upping is where you say something and somebody else has to make what they say sound bigger, better, and more impressive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
It's an easy little phrase. I wasn't trying to compare. I was just trying to share. What it's doing is saying, hey, look, I'll put it on me here. I'll put it on me. I wasn't trying to create a competition. I was just sharing this little story. I'll also be kind of lighthearted sometime and go, yeah, well, I mean... Not all of us can be you. I'm just trying to share my little story over here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
And I let them be the bigger person. I let them be the star of the show because I know really that's what they're needing. And if it is something that I need, then it's me, who's the one I have to have the accolade, I have to have this feeling, then it's really a great way to turn inside and reflective of saying, what am I needing? Why am I sharing this?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Am I sharing this so that they will give me praise? Am I sharing this because I have the insecurity right now? So it's a great way of just taking yourself out of it, detaching in the moment and saying, what am I truly needing? And being very selective with who you share good news with.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
All right, now we're at my favorite part of the podcast, and that's where I get to read a question from a follower. Those that are part of my newsletter are able to ask me questions, and I'm able to answer them. It's a whole lot of fun and meaningful to me. So if you're not part of that newsletter, you can sign up there in the show notes. You'll see the link to sign up for the newsletter.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
This segment of the podcast is sponsored by a company called Cozy Earth. And it's a good name because their stuff really is cozy. I wore it all weekend long. I like Cozy Earth as a sponsor of this podcast because I use their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed. My wife wears their pajamas, their pajama sets. And I wear most, I usually wear sweat shirts and sweat pants when it's cold on the weekends.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
It's just, you want to be comfortable, right? When you're home and chilling. So if you're looking for something this holiday season, I would definitely check out Cozy Earth. They're awesome. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. All right. This is, I'm going to pull up my newsletter. This one I already have ready. This is Renee from Maine. Maine.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
I thought that rhymed for a second. It does not. Renee's goes, Jefferson, I love your stuff. Thank you so much. That's very sweet, Renee. Thank you. I have a question. I work here in a cubicle setting and we're very close together. I am somebody who I've, let me rephrase that, my friend who I work with has said I am a one-upper person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
I really try not to be, but do you have any recommendations or tips for making sure that I am not the one one-upping my friend? I'm really trying not to do that. I also think it's kind of oversharing, but I have a problem with that. Any suggestions would help. Renee, I got you. You're not the only one who does that because it's very natural.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
It's very, very natural to want to share and explain things with. You have to remember, all of these tips are contextual. Meaning, if I'm with one of my best friends, we don't care about one-upping because he knows that I love him and he loves me. We're proud for each other and it's never a competition.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
To where if you were to tell me, hey, I just ran a 5K. I go, oh, that's awesome. You know, last year when I was running this marathon, you know, I had... Or if... you say, hey, I just got a promotion. Oh, that's wonderful. I remember when I got my promotion, they gave me this really great corner suite.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
If it's a coworker who I vaguely know and we're just coworker friends kind of thing or somebody who's a colleague... It's a different feeling. I got to be careful who I share things with because they might take it competitively. And also sometimes it's just cultural. Like, I'll admit, in the legal world, it's very, very common for, let's say, I gave a trial story.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
I told a story about a trial that I had and another attorney go, oh, yeah, well, I got this one time. And then they tell their trial story. And somebody goes, well, the one time I had this client and they tell something about a deposition. It's very common to one up in a way, but it's just really who can say the funniest thing or what's a funny, unique story that you can share.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
And it's not meant as a dismissing, wanted to overshadow somebody kind of way. So I'm going to say any of this advice I'm giving you, Renee, needs to be confined to the context that you're living in. So let's assume the best. Let's assume that everybody's friends and it's a good work environment. If you find that you are one-upping people by accident, don't get hard on yourself.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
This is what I want you to do. And it's easy, Renee. It's easy. When somebody's sharing a story with you, Rather than immediately thinking, oh, I need to relate to them. I need to tell a story. Instead of immediately going, okay, as soon as they finish, I need to give mine so they feel like I'm relating with them in a way and connecting with them. That's not the way it sounds.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
It sounds like you're one-upping them. That's where the pain point is. Instead, Renee, this is so easy. All you need to do is ask one question. Just one question. As soon as they finish their story, ask an easy layup question such as, what was your favorite part? Simple as that. What was your favorite part? Or tell me more. Or what else happened?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Something to where you just sound like you are engaged just a little bit. If you just add on a little bit, Renee, the other person is going to immediately brighten up. Like, oh, you listened. Oh, you hear me. Oh, you're interested. Okay, I'm giving something of value. You do find it funny. You do find it worthwhile for them to just give a little bit more.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
My favorite is, what was your favorite part? Because when you do that, it gets them to replay back in their mind and share something, maybe an insight that they didn't think of. And they're going to go, oh, I really appreciate that question. I mean, you've seen when celebrities get interviewed, right? When they get that interview question from someone that they weren't expecting, what do they go?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
It's always having to make yourself feel like you are the superior person, the bigger, the better, everything to where it shifts focus away from the original speaker to funnel it back towards ourselves. And that's what happens. It happens to us. It happens to other people. It's a very natural thing to do. So I don't want you to feel like it's Only one person does this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Oh, that's such a great question. Oh, wonderful. I really appreciate that. Nobody ever asked me that. It's because they're really taking an interest in them. So it's as easy as that, Renee. When somebody's giving a story, instead of immediately sharing your own, just give one little question. Like, what was your favorite part? And watch them just light up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
And then they're going to be much more receptive to you sharing yours. Or you can even ask, do you mind if I share one? Do you mind if I share something? I had a similar story. And they're going, yeah. And then once you get their buy-in and they've given you the green flag to start... I hope it's a green flag. I don't know what they start in races.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Once they say, three, two, one, go, then you'll be able to share your story. And then they'll be interested and it doesn't feel like a clash. So... You're not doing anything wrong, Renee. It's very common. It happens all the time. It just depends who you're talking to, what the situation is, what the environment's like. But you'll make it all go away.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
All you have to do is just ask one little question after it, and that's going to make you connect with them. on a level that feels much more comfortable for them to listen to your side of the fence and hear your story. And I think it's going to be much better for you. And that way you don't feel like you're trying to compete and over-explain or over-share.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
It's going to be something that'll work out much better for you. OK, thank you for listening to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast. And if you would, please leave a review or give a star or a thumbs up or a like or whatever it is on the platform you're listening to, because it really, really makes a difference for me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Um, if you have any topic suggestions that you have, don't ever hesitate to just put them in the comments and I'm, I'm the one that looks at them and I always go, Oh, that's a great topic or that's a good one. And I, I keep those. So if you have something, don't be afraid to put it in there. Today we learned all about what do you do when somebody's trying to one-up you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
Biggest takeaway is that we're not going to take it personally. We're going to see the insecurity in the other person. We might say something like, hey, I wasn't trying to compare. I just wanted to share what we had. You're going to find that's going to smooth most things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
And to keep yourself from one-upping somebody, even unintentionally, all you need to do is ask one little question at the end, and they're going to feel like you're engaging, and it's going to break away from a much better conversation between the two of you as always you can try that and follow me
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
What to Say to a One-Upper
We all do it without thinking of it. It can be little, it can be big, but one upping eventually is just corrosive to relationships because it doesn't open a dialogue for us to be proud of one another. What it does is it dismisses other people. It puts them on an overcast to always overshadow what they're doing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You are not a target. You are not somebody's punching bag. You are not somebody's outlet for all of their frustration and their anger and their insecurities that have been built up all their life. This episode is a little bit different for the podcast. One, it's very early on a Saturday morning, and I wanted to record this so that I had the full day with the kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
People are far better than we give them a chance to be. Why? Because we know that in ourselves. So when you have the patience and the discipline to get to that, you're going to have a better communication and a better relationship and a better life because of that. Cool? All right. You are not a target. Hope you have a wonderful day. Oh, you thought I forgot?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
As always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And there's a lot of wonderful things coming down the road that I can't wait to share with you. But right now with this podcast, I want to make sure it fits my life because that's where I'm going to show up best for you every time. So I want you to let me know. Give me some feedback. How are you liking it? This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I like Cozy Earth because I wear it all the time, especially when I'm traveling, especially when I'm home. It's just cozy. It's comfortable. There's a reason why it's called that. And my wife loves it. She wears the pajamas. We have their bed sheets. It's really, really comfortable. So you ought to give it a try. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I promise you, they feel amazing. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. My book, The Next Conversation, Are You Less? Talk More is out. You can order wherever you like to order books. You can go to jeffersonfisher.com or you can go to thenextconversation.com. You'll find the links down in the show notes to get yours.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
It is officially a New York Times bestseller, instant Sunday Times bestseller. And I couldn't be any more grateful because I know it's because of you. Anybody who's listening to this right now or anybody who's purchased the book or supported my content, thank you so much.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
If you're interested in going even further in improving your communication, I'm going to encourage you to join the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. It's an online membership where I'm able to have live classes with everyone. They're able to use my AI or actually able to give more worksheets and tools and resources than ever before. I encourage you to give it a try.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
There are links for it down in the show notes. so my book has been out for a little over a week now and it's been fantastic amazing the book tour is going wonderful and as any new debut author i for good or for bad have been looking at reviews online Because you want to know, are people going to like the book? That's the whole, you get very nervous. Are you going to deliver on the message?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And the reviews have been so kind and wonderful. And there was one that hit me yesterday that I randomly saw that I wanted to share with you. It's very short. I know you can listen to it. Just bear with me. I know you can do it. Listen, you are not a target. I was once told by my husband, you are an easy target and everyone knows it. Time and again, I walked away defeated even with my children.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
So if it looks like my face hasn't woken up yet, it's because it hasn't. We're in the middle of the book tour, which is going fantastic, but I wanted to make time to tell you what is on my heart. You ready? Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Jefferson showed me what I lacked was communication skills. From his social media, I started applying these answers to difficult situations. Let me be clear, this is not a book of his social media quips. That's what I thought it would be. No, it is learning to understand where people are and to adequately communicate with them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
It's teaching to deepen relationships by way of strong communication skills. You are not a weak person for purchasing this book. You are strong and courageous for recognizing there is a better way to bridge a gap, create healthy boundaries that work, to not get sucked down a rabbit hole, to not think you've lost your mind. I highly recommend, and I'm starting my second read-through.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Kindle Edition is an easy read. Bless you, Jefferson, for exhibiting love for people. I was just taken aback. I was totally blown away by this. I have no clue who this person is. In fact, they didn't even leave their name. It just says verified purchaser. This is my point with this is I want you to know where to go in your mind when conflict comes your way. You are not a target.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And if you felt like you've been your whole life, this is where it stops. Rule number one in my book, there are three rules. It's rule number one, say it with control. Number two, say it with confidence. Number three, say it to connect.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And the whole focus of rule number one is you can't say anything about what I teach you, whether it's my phrases, my quips, my little words, everything that I can give you. None of it matters. if you do not say it with control, if you do not first regulate yourself. So we're gonna talk about in this episode what I want you to think about when conflict comes your way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Anytime that somebody says something that you weren't expecting, your body naturally through its biology reacts. People think that fight or flight is something that has to happen when you come with physical contact. No, that's not true. It happens every day in these little micro moments. Even when somebody just flatly disagrees with you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
When somebody disagrees with your opinion or they say something you don't like or they call you an ugly name, your body goes, hey brain, I didn't like that. And the brain goes, give me a second. Yeah, no, we definitely didn't like that. And it naturally reacts. You have a scowl on your face. You want to say something back. You get heated. Your neck and jaw get tense. All biological. All normal.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
All natural. So what do you do with that? Rule number one in my book is you use your breath. is the first word that you say. And the reason why is because it adds a distance between what they say and how you respond, which gives you time to regulate yourself, to think of the quips that I give you and the sentences I give you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
If you like learning tools to improve your communication, I want you to follow this podcast. If you're watching it, wherever you are, please add it as a subscriber and give it a like, give it a start. Anything really makes a difference. I appreciate that. And if you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. Hey, and while we're at it, how are you liking the podcast?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And it also, the other benefit is it allows the other person to calm down theirs as well. Gives time for that analytical side to take over. Every day, there are little things that tell your body, I am threatened. Somebody cuts in front of you in traffic. Somebody merges. Somebody's riding on your bumper. Your body goes, I am threatened. That's where road rage comes from.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I feel threatened in this environment. When you're talking with your kids, when somebody says something to you that they disagree with your opinion, they dismiss your idea. You don't like that. Your body's saying, hey, that feels threatening to me. I want you to do something for me right now. Now, if you're driving, don't worry about it. If you're walking on the treadmill, don't worry about it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You can do it later. Do it in your head with me right now. I want you to think of Behavior that somebody does that really, really upsets you. And we're going to put a label on it. For example, maybe it's disrespect, dismissive, condescending, belittling, rude. Whatever it is, make it yours.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
What is a behavior that somebody exhibits that really just feels like it sets you off, that you just explode when somebody does this to you? You got it? You find that word. Now, write it down, and right next to it, I want you to write, does not threaten me. Does not threaten me. So, the sentence would be, Dismissiveness does not threaten me. Rude comments, backtalk, insults do not threaten me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
This is the mindset I want you to have when this kind of stuff comes up in your life. Why? Because it is telling your body of, hey, when somebody raises their voice, that doesn't threaten me. When somebody calls me that, the way I'm reacting and telling my body is, hey, this does not threaten me. That's what you're doing with your breath in that moment.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
That's why we give it time to tell your body what is happening in front of me is not a threat, right? It's this idea that you have, you've seen the big animals, whether it's a lion or an elephant or something, they have like some, maybe a little dog or something. They just go, what is this? It's like a little animal coming up to a big animal. They're not threatened.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
in any way that's the whole mindset here of hey what you're doing is this isn't threatening to me i'm seeing right through it cool i'm going to tell you a quick story right now that um i haven't i don't think i've ever shared this was oh maybe three weeks ago or so and where was i I think it was in San Diego Airport. I was in the San Diego Airport. It may have been San Diego.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Everything's blending together at this moment, and it's early. Give me a break. is I got through security at TSA and went and I was looking for my gate, looking for my gate and I kept following the signs and then all of a sudden I was outside of it, outside of the security.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
The gate, the terminal, it wasn't the terminal, the gate was actually in a separate terminal and I had just walked myself all the way through. I had already gone through security. I had already gone through all the check and the getting your stuff out and ready and giving your ID.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Really, I know I've moved out of my car. So I was making them in my car, really just an iPhone. And I had this, I say the studio built that you're seeing. It's just a room, that's it, nothing fancy. So how are you liking it? Do you like it better when I'm just in my car? Do you like the studio? Do you like the setup? Is the sound better for you? Because it is a better mic.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I started walking out and I passed this exit where it goes, you know, the point of no return or has a red line there at the airport. And I walk out of it. And all of a sudden, this is me by myself. And I look and I go, I say this out loud. Oh, my gosh, I got to do this all over again. because I have to know I'm going further down where a separate terminal is.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And I say, oh my gosh, I got to do this all over again. And a voice that I had no clue where it was coming from, female voice goes, that's why you should read the sign, sir. And I'm trying to find who that is. And I turn and look. And as I'm looking, she goes, you have no one to blame but yourself, sir. That's why we have signs. I don't know if you're feeling this, just hearing it to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Just the way the tone came across was so condescending and unexpected and unnecessary. You ever had that? That's why we have signs, sir. You have no one to blame but yourself. And I remember...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
being just taken aback who who who are you and it was a tsa agent now if you're a tsa agent i know not everybody is rough and can be terrible and i hey i'm an attorney for crying out loud not all attorneys are bad there are some tsa agents that are wonderful there are some people that are bad we all have bad apples in every profession this one right here this lady she was middle-aged lady
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I just looked so smug as soon as she said that. And this is what my body wanted to come back with some really good zingers in that moment. I wanted to say a few things to her because it was really rude. It was unnecessary. And this is what I did. Of course, I have to practice what I preach, right? I gave it, I looked at her for like five seconds trying to figure out, is this, did she say that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And I just give it time and now she's sitting back and blinking and looking at me. Her smile is gone. And this is what I asked her. I said, how do you feel when you say that kind of thing to someone? Does it give you joy? That's what I said, verbatim. And immediately she got red, like, and just got red in the face. and apologized right there. I don't have to prompt anything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
She goes, I'm sorry, sir. You're right. That wasn't kind. You're right, sir. I'm sorry. Yes, you can find the terminal if you go straight down, and now she was in helping mode. Now she was in helping mode. You can go right here, and this is where it's going to be. I would say, oh, well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. All right. You have a wonderful day. You are not a target for
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You are not somebody's punching bag. You are not the outlet for somebody to release all of their frustrations and their angers and their smugness on you. These tools work. This is why I talk about them. That's why I feel so passionate about sharing these. You had the choice right in that moment when somebody says something ugly, when they're the TSA agent in your life, how are you gonna react?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
What are you gonna say to that person? Are you going to allow them to just press your remote control and manipulate all your emotions? I had a choice. You have a choice. Is that going to ruin your day? I just can't believe you'd say that. Excuse me? Are you talking to me?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Do you like me having guests and trying that out? Or do you like it when I do solo? Or do you like a mix of both? I am at a time in my life where I am making sure my priority is that whatever I do, it's fitting the life that I have with my family as the priority. And I will always make my videos and do all that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You see how it easily could go the other way when you give in to that fight or flight, when you don't use your breath, when you don't regulate yourself. If you do not say things with control, it doesn't matter what kind of tip I can give you. It's not going to work. It ain't going to work. You have to say it with control. You are not a target. I hope that this is a good reminder for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Wherever you are, I can give you lots of tools and tips on what to say, and we have different podcast episodes on that, and I'm going to continue to give you podcast episodes on this And I want to make sure that you know and you hear, and really the message is very simple for today. You are not a target.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
When that happens, I want you to go to your breath, regulate yourself, and then use the questions that I've taught you. These are questions like, did you mean? Did you mean for that to be rude? Did you mean to insult me? Did you mean for that to embarrass me? Or you give it time and then you ask somebody a question of intent. How did you expect me to react to that? I could have said that to her.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
How did you want me to respond to that? How does it make you feel? Imagine being the person who would say that to someone. These ways of responding to rude behavior that is actually not a response. It's a question. You're not giving them matters of substance. I'm not saying, you spit in my eye, let me spit back in yours. No, it is a reflection of their own behavior and character.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And nine times out of ten, the other person sees that because they, because you're giving them time to, are seeing. It's like the blood, the red. It's not blood. The red comes out of their system. You know, if somebody's seeing red, you have to give them time for that to go away. Come back to normal. Come back. I know that's not who you are. People are not
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Hey, y'all. Welcome to a special episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. Today's episode is a little bit different, and I couldn't be more excited about it. My book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More, is finally here, and so is the audiobook. I am currently sitting in my hotel room in North Carolina on the book tour.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's easy to believe that communication should be cut and dried. A world where you say, you're wrong, and the other person immediately replies, why yes, yes I most certainly am. A place where when someone says, I'm fine, the only possible interpretation of the phrase is that they're totally and unequivocally fine.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Sitting at the conference room table, waiting for people to arrive, I looked up to see a half-human, half-giant. His outline took up the whole doorway. Naturally, I stood up and walked over to him to shake his hand and introduce myself. Jefferson Fisher, I said with a smile. Bobby, he muttered. Now, I'm not a small guy. I'm over six feet tall, but I barely came up to Bobby LaPre's chest.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Where what you see on the outside is all there is to someone on the inside, and the boot always fits. That's how you think it should be. That's what you want it to be, but that's not the way it is. When you tell someone that they're wrong, they become more convinced that they're right. When someone says they're fine, they're often anything but. It's never as simple as matching stereotypes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Given these problems, I want to go ahead and acknowledge a central theme of this book, and I hope you let this coin drop from your head to your heart. The person you see isn't the person you're talking to. Think of a river and its undercurrent. On the surface, your eyes and ears can pick up a person's physical cues that shape your perception and judgments about them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
But what's happening below the surface, that's where the real truth runs. For instance, the coworker you see is agitated and impatient. The coworker you're talking to didn't sleep well last night because he's worried about convincing his brother to go to rehab. The cashier you see is scattered and inattentive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
The cashier you're talking to is worried about affording her kids back-to-school supplies. The spouse you see is tense and short-fused. The spouse you're talking to had a horrible day at work starting with an email from a rude client. Or in my case, the mountain of a man I saw was aggressive and defensive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
The Bobby LaPre I was talking to, on the other hand, felt alone and worried about his mother. It's this other person you're talking to, the person you don't know who you need to reach for when conflict starts to tear you apart. Understanding that there's more beneath the surface is one thing, but figuring out how to connect with their deeper self is another.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
How exactly are you supposed to reach them? The Struggle You Hear When Bobby called my question stupid, Everything inside me wanted to prove him wrong. In that instant, the needs of the case took a backseat to my needs. My desire to be seen as right blinded me to any other options. I wanted to win. It's what I'm expected to do. Oh, you're an attorney? You must win a lot of arguments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I hear it all the time. It's also not true. Thanks to the countless books out there claiming to teach you how to win every argument, that's all anyone thinks you're supposed to do. Win. So let me tell you now. If that's why you're listening to this, go ahead and return it. The sales pitch of winning an argument is overused and overpromised. That's not this book. And I'll tell you why.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
For one, you can win an argument and still be wrong. And second, even if you win, you still come up empty-handed. Winning an argument is a losing game. Winning means that you've likely lost something far more valuable. Their trust, their respect, or worse, the connection. The only reward you've won is their contempt. And for what? The argument ends. The conversation is over. You won.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Congratulations. Now what do you got? the same unresolved issue at the cost of hurt feelings and awkward silence. Most likely, you still have to find a way to communicate with this person. You still have to live with them, to work with them. Depending on what you said, you may now be the one who owes an apology.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Any feeling of pride is short-lived compared to the lasting damage to the relationship. Trial attorneys don't even win arguments. They don't get to choose their clients' facts. They don't get to choose which law to follow. Everything has to pass through a filter of admissibility. Then it's up to the judge or the jury to apply the law to the evidence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
What we do is more about giving facts a voice than it is about winning an argument. Competition in communication has convinced society that the world is divided into right and wrong, winners and losers. After a political debate, the first question someone asks the next morning is always, who won? But if we go back in time to the ancient Greeks, discourse had nothing to do with winning.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
A debate over opposing issues was a vehicle for pursuing truth. Exposing the weakness in another person's argument was to strengthen and refine it, not dismiss it. Debates were known to last for days, even weeks, to give each other time to obtain perspective and explore divisive issues. Today, the tendency is to do just the opposite.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He was an absolute mountain. As we shook hands, the squeeze from his ginormous, callous hands left an imprint in mine like a scene from a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I'd never been around someone so physically intimidating. The case involved a bar fight, and I was representing a bystander who had gotten caught up in the scuffle.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Rather than allowing disagreement to open you up to learning from another person's perspective, you shut it down. Instead of refining your own understanding, you treat it as a threat. We run to social media like it's our personal megaphone to voice just how much we disagree. Now, be honest with me. How many times has a social media post disparaging your point of view ever changed your mind?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And how many times has something you posted that criticized someone else's opinion ever changed theirs? Never. The world turns, the news cycle moves on, and the next day, no one cares. So what then? What did you prove? The fastest way to lose your peace of mind is to give someone a piece of yours. Beating out someone in an argument may feed your ego, but it'll still leave you hungry.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Rarely, if ever, does winning in communication lead to better things in your life. That's why I care enough about you to tell you the truth. Never win an argument. Whether it's an argument, a heated discussion, or a slight friction in conversation, your goal isn't to win. It's to unravel. Start at the loose ends until you understand the heart of it. There, you'll find the knot.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
This is a book of knots. The hard stuff and social relationships that, admit it, you'd rather skip over. Untying cross wires takes time, takes emotion, takes effort. That's what conflict and communication represents, a struggle. An argument is a window into another person's struggle. In every difficult conversation, there's a moment when someone, whether it's you or the other person, hits a snag.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Maybe you don't understand what they're trying to say. Maybe you're in a bad mood. Maybe you just disagree. It's not the clash of opinions. It's the clash of worlds, of the very way you see things. Behind every harsh and uncut word, there's a backstory, a why.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And if you can find the discipline to get to that, if you can peel back the layers of the argument to discern the struggle, the fear, or the hope hiding underneath, that's where real communication begins. Because at the end of the day, it's not about the argument.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's about seeing through the keyhole into another person's world and realizing that maybe, just maybe, the win you thought you wanted isn't what you needed after all. The Challenge to Accept Now, most people understand that success comes from seeing failure not as a setback, but as a stepping stone. Embracing failure is part of the process. You learn from your mistakes to grow stronger.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As part of the case, I needed to depose Bobby LaPre, a witness to the events. In a deposition, I get the chance to ask people questions under oath, typically to learn what they know before they testify at trial. Clockwise around the antique conference room table sat the court reporter writing everything down, Bobby LaPre, the opposing attorney, and me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Failures to communicate, as in disagreements and arguments, they do the same thing. They lead to success because they reveal areas of improvement, offering insights into how you can enrich your interactions. The bigger the conversation, the bigger the need to handle the conflict effectively. And when done right, conflict isn't a fight. It's an opportunity.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's a catalyst for real, meaningful connection. If, and that's if, you're willing to see it. What life experiences have shaped how you see conflict? When you were a kid, defiantly shouting no or bombarding adults with why was your way of figuring things out, cause and effect.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As a teenager, those simple childhood reactions turned into more complicated questions about finding your place and your identity apart from your family. The clothes you wore, the music you listened to, even the clique you hung around were all statements of who you wanted to be.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Stepping into adulthood, disagreements became less about asserting individuality and more about coexisting with other people. Your conversations turned to topics like children, career paths, and mortgages. Or in my case, what vacuum to buy and whether that piece of furniture I found in my parents' garage still had good bones. As an adult, the stakes change.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Your responsibilities grow as you have to think collectively, now responsible for people other than yourself, such as aging parents or your own children. You take interest in broader issues like politics, news, and global affairs. Despite your age, things may feel even more uncertain. When that happens, you tend to fall back to what you know.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
your lived experiences, and the behaviors modeled for you growing up. I want you to ask yourself right now, how did watching arguments in my childhood influence the way that I argue now?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
If yelling and aggression were the go-to method for conflict in your home growing up, you might find yourself thinking that's just how things are done, even if you know it's not the best way to get your point across.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
On the flip side, if you came from a place where everyone tiptoed around disagreements to save face or avoided conversations out of fear of what the neighbors might think, diving headfirst into an argument might make you feel uncomfortable, to say the least. Take this one time I stayed over at a friend's house during the summer as a kid.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
His parents got into a massive shouting match right in front of us, door slamming the works. I remember being absolutely mortified. I grew up with parents who kept their arguments pretty private, either hashing things out in their room or waiting until we were asleep. So seeing his parents go at it I was positive that a divorce was unfolding before my eyes. But my friend? He didn't even blink.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
To him, it was just a typical Tuesday night. Looking back, maybe you're not thrilled with how conflict was handled around you. Maybe you even have bad memories of seeing arguments bring out the worst in the people you loved. Maybe you've caught yourself echoing their words or mirroring their actions, even in the little things, like how you move your hand or the tone of your voice.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
You've gotten to a point in your life where you're beginning to realize that what you observed wasn't that healthy. And you can't help but wonder, would things have gone easier for you in your own life if you'd seen better ways to deal with conflict? If that's you, then I'm asking you now to take on the challenge and break the cycle.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
After asking Bobby to raise his right hand and placing him under oath, the court reporter gave me her customary nod for me to begin. I asked Bobby LaPre routine questions about his background and what had led up to the fight. They were easy, open-ended questions like, what time did you arrive? Who did you talk to first? Did you see so-and-so or do this and that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Stop seeing arguments as something to win, but as an opportunity to understand the person behind the words. Stop hearing only what's said and start hearing what's felt. Build the discipline to connect to the person in front of you. Embrace the failures to communicate and learn from them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Reach success by using each misstep as a stepping stone and make room for more positive and real in your life, like a bear hug from a man who until recently wanted to shop put you. Now, it's highly likely that the themes and the lessons ahead won't be anything new to you. You know you should speak with confidence and control your emotions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
You know you should avoid getting defensive and stand up for yourself. The question you have is, yes, but what does that look like? Well, it starts with what you say next. Chapter Summary The person you see isn't the person you're talking to. Every person has a surface and a depth. Often, the emotions you hear in someone's voice are not bids for disagreement, but bids for connection.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Don't buy into the lie that you need to win an argument. When you seek to win, you tend to lose much more, like their trust or respect. Instead, view arguments as a window into another person's struggle. Conflict can be a catalyst for positive changes in your life. To harness it, you have to be willing to connect with the person opposite you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Turning your conflicts into connections paves the way for a more fulfilling, meaningful life. All you need is in what you say next.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's common to use such questions to build a chronology of the events from a witness's particular point of view. At all times, I made sure I was kind and polite. 90% because that's my personality. And I'd be lying if it wasn't 10% out of just sheer self-preservation. He was not someone I wanted to upset.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I did four days in New York, did New Jersey, and now I'm here in North Carolina and going to continue on doing it. I wanted to give you, my listeners, an exclusive treat. I want to give you a full listen to chapter one from the audiobook read by me. Now, this chapter sets the tone for everything the book is about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
But no matter how many softball questions I asked, Bobby LaPre was becoming increasingly agitated. I'd seen it enough times in my experience to know. His eyebrows began furrowing with each answer, a sign of negative emotion. His breathing got heavier as he switched from exhaling through his nose to exhaling through his mouth, a sign of increased stress.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He started wringing his massive hands together as he spoke, a sign of anxiety. It didn't matter what I did. It seemed as if just my entire existence in the room offended him. I could sense the tension around the table heightening the more displeased Bobby LaPre looked, like I was blowing up a balloon and it was about to pop. Finally, I asked him, Mr. LaPre, would you like a break?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
The room went silent. No, Bobby LaPre said, clearing his throat, but I got something to say. his words rang out louder than necessary. So much so that the court reporter jumped. I quickly glanced at the other attorney who couldn't have been younger than 65. He looked more nervous than I was.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
When we locked eyes, he gave me a wide-eyed look and slowly shook his head as if to say, if this goes south, you're on your own. I turned back to look at my witness. Yes, sir, I inquired. Bobby LaPre took a big breath in and said, You can cut all this buddy-buddy stuff. Except he didn't say stuff. You lawyers, you're the worst thing to happen to America, he continued. All you do is lie.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He slammed his hand down on the table, then drew it upward with a pointed finger at me, saying, So go on and ask me your stupid questions. Just know, I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. I'm telling you, lawyers, you're the worst thing to happen to this country, he repeated. The court reporter gave an anxious look. At that moment, a hundred thoughts raced through my mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
First, I'm well accustomed to the derogatory stereotype of attorneys, especially personal injury attorneys. I try very hard to work against it, though it's a reputation that some attorneys, frankly, rightly deserve. So a put-down joke or a snide remark about my profession is nothing new. I understood. Second, I didn't blame him for not trusting me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
helping you navigate tough conversations with confidence, clarity, and of course, connection. If you enjoy what you hear, I'd love for you to check out the rest of the audiobook or grab a copy of my book. You can find it wherever books or audiobooks are sold, and you can head to thenextconversation.com, and it'll be down there in the show notes for all the details.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Not because I was trying to mislead him, but because to his mind, I represented all the bad things he ever thought he knew or had heard of about the law, lawyers, or the system. Of course, he had no reason to trust me. I understood. It was the stupid questions that got me. Now, I know good and well that I do many, many stupid things every day. But what I don't do is ask stupid questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
In that instant, a wave of anger surged through me. I felt my whole body go tense. My ears got hot as I shifted my weight in my seat. I could sense that I was becoming defensive. My questions up to that point had barely scratched the surface. Nothing about them had been difficult or even uncomfortable. Stupid? I'll show him stupid, I thought.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I felt myself wanting to come back with quips about his size in relation to his intelligence. Just a few well-placed cutting words and I'd best him. I tried to tell myself that his reaction was all I needed to know about who he truly was. But I'd been wrong before. When I was in third grade, my school started a reading buddy program, pairing strong readers with those who hadn't learned yet.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
That's how I got paired with Evan. Twice a week, we'd sit on beanbags during our library period. I'd listen as he would struggle to read aloud books like Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See? by Bill Martin Jr. Evan was physically much bigger than I was. Back then, I had a hard time understanding how he was so big but couldn't read.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
When he'd come across a word that he didn't know, my job was to help him sound it out. But he still struggled. So I figured out ways to explain things to him differently, like associating words with memorable phrases or creating metaphors on the fly with whatever was near us in the room. I got really good at crafting little tricks that engaged Evan's interests, making harder ideas more memorable.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Sometimes we'd do our reading sessions during our lunch period. While I'd pull out my lunch in a brown bag with a handwritten smiley face on it that my mama had made me that day, I'd watch as a teacher would bring him a tray from the cafeteria. Evan's mama didn't make his lunch. I began to notice that his clothes never seemed to fit him, like they were three sizes too big.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Once, when we were going over throw, through, and through, T-H-R-O-U-G-H, I tried to help by relating it to how he'd throw a baseball to his dad. Evan flatly replied, I don't know who my dad is. I vividly remember feeling as though I couldn't move my mouth. I was speechless. My heart broke for him. I'd later learned that Evan had been living with his grandparents.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Now, let's dive into chapter one of The Next Conversation. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed writing it and reading it. Chapter 1. Never Win an Argument I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, he bellowed. In all honesty, it was a compliment. He could have thrown me pretty far.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
His dad had left shortly after he was born. His mom was in jail. But in third grade, I had no grasp of his reality, no clue about the true struggles he was facing. With two loving parents who would read and tell me stories at night, I knew then that he was living in a world I knew nothing about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As we continued over that fall semester and into the next year, Evan's reading level improved with each session until he was reading all on his own. I couldn't have been prouder. Exposure to Evan's inner struggles was another defining moment in my life at a very early age. And it was a lesson I've never forgotten. Zinging a put-down at ten-foot-tall Bobby LaPre wouldn't help anything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It would only hurt, if not the deposition, then most definitely my face. And besides, my client's case needed this information. Put it down, Jefferson, I said to myself. I let out a long, silent breath through my nose. As I dropped the tension in my shoulders, my thoughts of retaliation faded. What I became more curious about, however, was the disproportionality of Bobby's reaction.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Anytime someone takes a level one conversation and jumps it up to a level 10, it's telling. And what it tells you is that there's another conversation happening inside that person's head that you weren't invited to. something hidden that has taken over their filter and is now driving their reactions. You're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. What else is at play? Who am I really talking to?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I intended to find out. Having let about 10 seconds pass from his last words, lawyers are the worst thing to happen to America, I gave a soft smile. and said slowly, well, maybe you're right. I waited another 10 seconds as I sat back in my chair and moved my gaze around the room. When I was ready, I leaned forward, put my forearms on the table.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Tell me, please, what's been your biggest struggle this year? I asked. Bobby Lepre's eyes looked up to meet mine. Say what? He scoffed. I repeated. What's been your biggest struggle, personal struggle, this year? At that question, Bobby Lepre slowly dropped all emotion from his face. He got very still. I stayed quiet while his eyes seemed to search for the words.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And after a while, he finally spoke. His words stumbled out, choppy and hesitant, like he was embarrassed to even mention it. I, uh... I had to put my mother in an assisted living facility last month. My, uh... My dad is long past, and my brother moves around a lot as a roughneck, so... I'm the only one, the only one here to really help her.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's a lot of paperwork and legal stuff I don't understand. Unlike the Bobby LaPre who had angrily run me up one side and down the other not two minutes ago, this Bobby LaPre was different. When he talked, he looked defeated. He looked scared. And somehow, he looked small. Letting his words sink in, a few seconds later, I responded gently, I'm sorry, I can't imagine what that's like.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
In his tan coveralls with a white oval patch that had Lepre embroidered in black in the upper left pocket, Bobby Lepre glared at me with enough heat to burn a hole through my suit jacket. Now, generally, I don't know what someone looks like before I meet them at their deposition. And whatever I picture Bobby LaPre looking like, it wasn't this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He nodded slightly with pressed lips. But what I can tell you is, making sure to catch his eye, you're a good son. Immediately, Bobby LaPre threw his face down to keep me from seeing it. His huge shoulders shook. And like ice melting off a rock, big, bad Bobby LaPre began to cry. I quickly told the court reporter to go off the record for a break. It's okay, I reassured him.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I'm just going to sit here with you. And through tears, Bobby LaPre poured out all his fears over his mother's health. He told me about the intimidating letters threatening to foreclose his mother's house that he'd been receiving from none other than lawyers. He shared how the banks and the government were asking him for things he didn't understand. He felt helpless.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He wished his father was still alive. and my heart broke for him. He was living in a world I knew nothing about. I thought of Evan. Bobby LaPre had been holding the weight of it all by himself. For nearly 20 minutes, we sat there as he let it all out. With his attorney's permission, I asked for Bobby LaPre's email address.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And sitting there, I cc'd him on an email from my phone to a local colleague who handled elder law and estate planning. She replied minutes later, happily agreeing to set up a meeting with Bobby LaPre the next Monday. Thank you, he told me. absolutely i said you good i asked he took a big sniff wiped his nose with his sleeve and sat up yeah he answered with a weak grin i'm ready
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And for the rest of the deposition, I spoke to the real Bobby LaPre. His answers were direct and forthcoming. His words were more lighthearted. He became more animated, even cracked a few jokes. He no longer looked like he was ready to launch me into oblivion. All done, I said finally. That's all the questions I have. Thank you for your time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As we stood up, I walked toward the door and stuck out my hand. I braced for another painful death grip. Instead, at the last second, Bobby LaPre opened up his arms and bear-hugged me. All I could do was smile and say, Be good. I didn't look, but I'm fairly sure my feet weren't touching the ground. The Person You See I've had countless interactions like that one throughout my whole life.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Sometimes the other person is the Bobby LaPre. Other times, I'm the Bobby LaPre. But why does it happen? How is it that by dropping the idea of winning an argument, you actually get more of what you want? What is it about connecting to the other person that gives you the high ground? And how can you tap into that strength in your own communication?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that made them feel that he could make time for friends who cared.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Is this something we have to agree on? So a tip that I use is, is this something we have to agree on? Usually it's not. That stops arguments. It doesn't matter what the topic is. If you need to, you find that you're yanging over the small stuff, the little things, that often leads to the biggest arguments. You're getting these big arguments that go, what are we even, how did this even start?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
How do we even get here? Often you can put all that to rest when you just even ask, is this something we have to agree on? If it is, you can ask again, is this something we have to agree on right now? So there's a timing element too, because often people push arguments on you when you're not ready. They'll push conversation on you when you're not ready. You got five minutes?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
What they really mean is, hey, do you have about 48 minutes for me to tell you about something that you have no time for and your brain's locked into something else? And so they often push their own timing on you. So part of that standing up for yourself is defending your own time parameter.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Sure. So let's say you and I are choosing, let's say the best detergent. Okay. That's just the first thing that came to mind.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that's what happens. Typically, your biggest arguments stem from the smallest little inconvenience, especially if you're married.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Exactly. Is this something we have to agree on at this moment, right now? And they go, no.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, but in that moment, if you're not thinking about it, you start getting worked up.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
If the automatic feeling within you is no, then the answer is no, you don't. It's setting it later. I don't right now. Can we schedule this for tomorrow? What's your next week look like? Find ways to push it out because what you'll find is that five minutes they needed right then, that issue gets solved without you. They didn't really need it. They just came to talk.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There are phrases, let's say, to help pull down defensiveness. Because often when I say something, the tendency, the default is for somebody to get defensive. And that's natural. It's biological. It's your body going, oh, I perceive a threat. I'm going to send it right back. That's what fight or flight is in that element. The fight is I will throw hard words at you. I want words to hurt you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Or if you're... Running from it, it's I got to get out of here, slam the door. I got to hang up, finding different ways to deescalate situations. And what I like to tell them is you tell them what you learned. So after listening to you, I learned that this topic is important to you. Or you tell them that they've been helpful. That's helpful to know. Simple as that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Or you tell them what you agree on using the word agree. That does not mean you have to agree with what they said. It just means they just need to hear that word. In other words, instead of focusing on the content of that conversation, it is, I agree that this is something we need to talk about. I think I agree that this is a conversation worth having. Boom.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Like that right there, all of a sudden pulls down their defensiveness. They heard the word, I agree. They heard that this conversation is worth talking about. Great. They don't have to continue to push and feel defensive about it. They don't have to keep proving to you on something.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Exactly. And if you need to like shift away from that, the, is this something we need to agree on? I like, I could do better. I like, maybe so, maybe you're right. Those are two that I use often. If I ever get an insult, maybe a rude comment in the litigation world, someone makes some kind of offhand comment. I say, well, maybe you're right. Maybe so. Who am I to say?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It's that element of I get to control entirely what you say. Is that going to affect me or not? I have entire control over that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, especially if you always pick it up and carry it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So when it comes to taking things personally, for example, a quick tool for that is what I tell myself is I'll just say, put it down, Jefferson. Okay. When I'm taking things personally, I'm picking up what nobody has asked me to carry. I'm choosing to carry it. And before I know it, I can't even carry it anymore.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And to me, how often you take things personally is a direct reflection of how much grace you give other people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Meaning if you never give somebody the benefit of the doubt, it's heavy. It's a heavy proposition if you never give somebody the benefit of the doubt instead of just waiting to see if truly that offhand look meant to say something to you. We recognize it as that. I thought you were mad at me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah. Somebody, you pass by somebody in the hallway and they didn't say hello. Oh, they must be mad at me. No, they were just focusing on other things in their life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
When somebody is belittling you or giving you an insult and that hurtful comment, you make them repeat it. Because what they're hoping to do in that belittling comment is get that reaction out of you. And instead, you find a way to take all the fun out of it. So when you ask them to repeat what they said, you're not giving them that hit of dopamine that they're expecting from your reaction.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They're not getting that response time from you. Instead, you're delaying that gratification for them. Then it's just not worth it. Then it's just not fun. And so when you ask them to repeat it, to say, I need you to say that again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Thank you for having me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Like you just said right there, you're still single. I need you to repeat that. Yeah. So exactly. I'm not going to want to say that again because now that spotlight is on me. And then also what you lead up with that is you ask questions of intent. For example, did you say that to hurt me? And now it's this mirror that they feel like, why did I say that? Oh, okay. And then they start to backtrack.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Then you don't have to say anything. But if often I can just repeat what they said. So if somebody says to you, oh, so you're still single? I need you to say that again. Most likely they're not going to say that again. But if they do, then you can even repeat what they said. I'm still single. That's what you asked me? And all of a sudden they realize, this isn't fun.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Thank you very much. I'm very proud of it. Very excited to help a lot of people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They're not going to ask that kind of thing again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Or you just ask that question of, did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to offend me? Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. What I meant was, and all of a sudden they're backing away because they know you're going to stand your ground.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, exactly. Are you trying to insinuate something? Are you trying to say something that you're not wanting to tell me?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It's that mirror.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so it takes away the power of their insult.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
When you can take all the fun out of it, you take all the oxygen out of their room and they realize that they're not going to be able to control you with that reaction that they were hoping to get from you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
A lot of silence. So often if you just wait 10 seconds, you're going to add distance between what they said and how you're going to respond. And that makes it very clear. Because what they're wanting when somebody's disrespectful is the same way with belittling. They're wanting a reaction. They're saying this to get something out of you. Because in that moment, they're feeling something.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Whether it's a fear, an insecurity, whatever it is, you're understanding you're not going to You're not going to deliver on that same plane that they are. You're not going to be on that same level. So if somebody says something disrespectful, you give enough silence to make sure that it's a little awkward.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And then you're going to say something to the effect of, that's below my standard for a response. And then all of a sudden they feel like the dynamic has been flipped. That's below my standard of respect. Something as simple as that. All of a sudden you're now making it clear that what you just said was beneath me. And I don't respond to things that are beneath me in that way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so now you're taking control of it. Now you're leaning into it. What they thought was meant as a disrespect, they're now understanding that they're in the wrong place.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Depends how your relationship is with that person. I would advise that whoever they're disrespecting, you don't join in it and you make it clear that that is not your behavior. So you're going to be a person that is kind to this person. I've had it before. My grandfather came with me to Walmart. It was a terrible time. He was in a bad mood and he was crotchety to everybody we talked to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
But I was the one that was... Thank you so much for helping us. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Being overly, hey, I understand. Thank you. Making that eye contact with this other person. This other person's not having a good time. And then you have that conversation. I had to have that conversation with my grandfather.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I had to put a boundary, a very firm boundary of, if this is the way you're going to talk to people, I can't come with you. If you don't change the tone in which you're talking to people, Papa, I can't. I can't come. And so it very was, what am I saying? You're not being respectful to people. Yes, I am. I would not be telling you this if you had been respectful to people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And it's just having this conversation where they need to, it's the people you love and often you have to be their biggest mirror of protecting them also for how other people see them. And so I love my grandfather. I want other people to love him. And that means I also have to make sure that I need to put, I need to prepare him in a loving way of being very direct.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
This is how you're talking to people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
We also just don't go to Walmart.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
My breath. It is crazy to me how your body controls what you say. Like when you are feeling threatened, maybe you say something that challenges my credibility or I feel undermined. My body says, I feel threatened about this. There is a threat. I need to do something, either defend myself or get out of that situation. And when it turns to the fight... I will hold my breath. Why?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They're going to experience a sense of control in knowing who they are and who they want to be. And by that, I mean, they will have a sense of control. They can stand their ground in that next conversation. They can handle that difficult, toxic person in their next conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Because your muscles are getting tight. They're ready to react. Your shoulders go tense. You feel it in your ears. So that's why if you're not breathing, you will say things that are louder. You will yell because you're trying to make the threat go away.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
But if you breathe, or I say a conversational breath, you take that, let your breath be the first word that you say, then you're going to have a lot more control over what you're going to say next. So in terms of regulating my emotions, it is simply knowing that I can't control anything that they do or say, but I'm the one that can control everything. Silence can never be misquoted.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So it is often a lot stronger to say nothing at all than to send that one little thing that you think is going to win it. Because if you think you can win an argument, you don't win anything, Mel. You just, you lose your credibility. You've lost that connection. I mean, what have you got? Now it's just, you want awkward silence between the two of you?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You still have to possibly work with this person, live with this person, You've now just made it really awkward for the next few days before you make up. So you find ways to always just kind of control your breath and your shoulders.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
No, you're putting them down. Often when you have your shoulders next to your ears, it's tension, makes you cranky.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yes, absolutely. The first thing about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it, because not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for. It's that understanding of, I will engage this in conversation when I believe it is worth my time and effort into this conversation. You don't have to attend every argument that you're invited to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so it is this knowing of, I can RSVP, no, I can politely decline. I don't have to attend if I don't want to. We've all been in those meetings where the person who says everything in the meeting is often the person who knows the least.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And even more so, they'll be able to navigate who they want to be and where they want to go in their life simply by the words that they say next.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It's the person who's least in the know of what's happening in the heart of that company versus the person who says less is often the person who's the most confident because confidence is very quiet. Insecurities are very loud.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There is one simple phrase that I use that whoever's listening can use over and over. I see things differently or I remember things differently, period. And you can say that phrase as often as you need it. Somebody wants to come at you and they're gaslighting and trying to challenge your truth. I remember things differently. Period. They want to do it again because you're not going with them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I remember things differently. In my world, people who are trying to gaslight are trying to be the laser and you the cat. They're just trying to make you go certain directions everywhere but the truth. To avoid gaslighting, you just need to stand still and stand firm. I remember things differently. Period.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
That often will do everything that they don't want you to do because it's just not giving them the power. You feel like just because they dug a hole, you have to fill it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Certainly one, you could easily say, I tend to have another approach. I think differently about that. It's okay to say, I don't have an opinion. Or if I had an opinion, I give it. That's pretty easy of, I don't know enough about that. I'm not really sure. Finding ways of just being what I like to call the wet blanket.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Well, that goes to your personality. There's nothing wrong with that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, I made it difficult because I never gave them an enemy. So I never gave them somebody I did not like. Same way for a jury. As long as the jury likes you, you're 90% there.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I like to call it being in the pocket.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Well, and I'm a musician. Oh, really? Yeah. I play drums.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I play several instruments.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I did. Yeah. I had the whole like, yeah, I've been in multiple bands. There's a whole thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Exactly. Yeah. And it's this idea of when you're in the groove and everybody's bouncing their head, it sounds great. You're not lagging. You're not loud and forceful. You're not calling attention to yourself. You're just in the pocket. I know I don't have to do anything crazy. I just stay right in rhythm with the conversation. There is a strength to being the peacekeeper.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There is a strength to being the calm mind. That does not mean you can't kick back and have fun. It doesn't mean that you're just the wet blanket on every social situation. But when it comes to difficult people, when it comes to real conflict in your life, instead of choosing to say, this is a difficult person, It's just a difficult problem for the two of you to discuss.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And if you can get their help with it, if you can understand that they're grumpy because of something that somebody texted them this morning and they were feeling it before they even entered the room, that the problem is not you, instead of taking it so personally and just seeing the problem for what it is, you're going to come away knowing that you have all the control in that situation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that's a really empowering thought.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There's an initial mindset you need to have, and that is know when you're in their game. It's a game of either praise or provoke. If you're not filling them with praise, then they will turn to provoke and start an argument because it gives them the same amount of satisfaction. They delight in your anger as much as they delight in your praise. It is that sense of control that they have.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So know first when you are on the board. and you are playing their game.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So number one is you don't have to play that game.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You do that by two, adding as much distance as you can. Don't feel like you need to have this rapid fire text exchange. They text, respond the next day. You need to wait. Most people, maybe they need to be reminded there's not some kind of stop clock on text exchanges, you're required to respond. There's no delay of game.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You get to choose when you respond and you're gonna do it when, when you're ready. I'll respond to you when I've calmed down. I'll respond when I'm ready. You find ways to distance the emotional reaction that you could have. You also wanna stay neutral. And that means you say very boring things. Like, I understand. Noted. Good to know. Got it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
These short little things that are going to give them nothing to feed on. Because if you think you're going to solve all your problems in giving them that paragraph of a text, and you think you really just gave them a hundred words of pure amazingness that's going to shut them down and change your life, you're kidding yourself.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Because what they'll do is just pick out one word from that paragraph and twist it into and not acknowledge anything that you said. So less is always better when it comes to communicating with those type of behaviors and tendencies.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Well, I don't think there's a better way to approach the, are you thinking about something? It's this idea that whatever they say, you need to be a safe space for. Because I always want to be the person that my kids can come to with problems.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And if I teach them that when you come to me and you're hurting or you're in a bad mood and you're grumpy and I don't like that and I don't accept that and I don't want that, when you're in trouble, don't come to me. You're not a safe space for that. They'll go be real somewhere else. I can be grumpy. I mean, I can be in a bad mood.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so often you have to remember that when you're talking to somebody that's a spouse or a kid and they are grumpy and you poke that bear, they should be in the safest space of their life to be able to tell you, the person who loves them, how they're feeling genuinely, authentically.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
If it's somebody who you don't know that well, you probably don't want to ask that question, but you might want to say, how are you feeling? But I'd be careful on assuming that they're feeling a certain way. Now, if we want to tweet this and say, what if somebody sends you something that's rude? Like a rude comment. You read an email and it's rude.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
The kind of thing that you're like, I can't believe this. Can you believe that somebody would send this? Hey, so-and-so, come here. Look at this. You see what they read? Can you believe that? It's the, did you mean? Did you mean to sound rude? Did you mean for that to sound disrespectful? The did you mean is always a great tweak and you can use that as well. Did you mean? Did you mean?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Did you mean for that to sound so harsh?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yes, I did. Yeah, I did. But it really does help. Anytime you find something that we use this a lot is that, did you mean for that to sound short? You get that text. I do that even with my dad because my dad's like the one word texter. So I have to say, did you mean for that to sound short? There's some people that you just shouldn't text with or email. Just pick them up and call them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There's people that you're like, oh, they send the rudest email, but when you talk on the phone, they're so pleasant. You just know that's not their best mode of communication.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, believe it. There's a sense that goes to who you are, just your philosophy on life. And I believe that most people are good. They want to do good. And there are people in this world that are truly hurting. And they came in hurting long before they met me. And so there are certain things that... I know I could say that could be a trigger for somebody that I know nothing about.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And I don't know why it's a trigger. I don't know their childhood. I don't know that one thing that they're insecure about. You ever said something and you said something about their job. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, well, you think your job's better than mine? What you're hearing is just insecurity. That's what you're hearing. So you have to find the way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
My dad would tell me the issue that they're giving you is not the real issue. Meaning there's always something that's layered underneath that. And you just have to be curious enough and patient enough to find out.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I'm going to tell people that when you, the next time you are in a difficult conversation with people, number one, I want you to say what you have to say with control. It means you're going to control your breath, control your volume, control your body, and understand you don't have to say anything that you don't want to say. Two, I want them to say and speak with confidence.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It means using an assertive voice that doesn't give over apologies that mean nothing or say, I hate to bother you when it means nothing at all. And three, I want them to say things to connect. In other words, say what you mean and mean what you say. If you need to deliver bad news, deliver it. If you need to give a compliment, give it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And at the end of the day, they need to follow their heart and be true.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Let's say the best detergent. Okay. I don't know. That's just the first thing that came to mind.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Pause somebody. Pause for a second.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Thanks, Mel.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I love that. Well, this is something you know very well about. That is, these difficult personalities, when you talk to them, it's often, they're only difficult because they have a fear, an insecurity, a need. So instead of seeing it as a conflict, you see it as a bid for connection. They're wanting to feel like they can be heard, that they're important.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
What they say is somebody can acknowledge and care about it. versus always having a poke and pride. So when I'm cross-examining somebody, a lot of these techniques that I use has to do with, one, I understand that just because I say something doesn't mean I have to swing at it. Just because they throw a ball doesn't mean I have to swing. You just let the pitch go by.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Nobody can make me say anything that I don't want to say. The same way I don't have to respond even if they send a zinger at me. So there's that sense of control of, yeah, you can say what you need to say. That doesn't mean I need to say what I want to say. So there's this confidence that you can have from questioning people in the courtroom.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Another would be understanding that that conflict, that argument is simply a window into another person's struggle. when I'm representing a client and you're representing another client, a lot of the time, it's a weird occupation though, if you think about it. People hire me to have beef with somebody I don't have beef with.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And then what makes it even harder is they hire somebody to have beef with me. So when you're arguing with that opposing attorney, He and I or she and I, we don't have any problems, really. We're just taking on the problems of somebody else. And you can't, arguments aren't something to win, and especially in the courtroom, you just give the evidence and the facts a voice.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You advocate for those facts under the given law. So it's very different in that sense, but the same rules apply, that the less you say, the more powerful you sound. The more confident you express yourself, the more you seem more confident in yourself. So it's these little tips that I like to give from the courtroom that help me understand that difficult people are just people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
We can all be difficult.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, it is that mindset. If you go into it knowing or telling and convincing yourself that this person is difficult, all of a sudden you've made it difficult for you. What's to stop you from thinking this person is somebody I need to make sure I listen to? Sometimes the goal is too high. If your goal is they need to believe everything that I say, they need to do everything that I do.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You're never going to get that. Instead, if you can go into the conversation with a much smaller goal, like I want to make sure that they understand me. I want to make sure that I understand them. I want to make sure that I listen to them without interrupting. I want to make sure that I listen to the end of their sentences. That's very rare for people to listen to the end of somebody's sentence.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So you find that often when it's a difficult conversation, you're the one that's called it difficult. You're the one who's... made it difficult from the outset for yourself. You haven't had the conversation yet. You might know that person to be tend to have personalities or behaviors that can be seen objectively as difficult.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
But often when you hear that person say, you don't listen to me, what they're saying on the inside is, I want to feel heard. I want you to connect with me. I want to be understood.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They come in hot and heavy like that. Nobody ever listens to me. Well, then you're going to be the opposite of that. I mean, you're going to pose questions for them. I mean, for example, that never, that's one word that's an extreme you're going to attach to. I never listen to you. I want to make sure I understand that. I never listen to you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Typically, they'll draw back from that because then you use an extreme. They know you have to listen to them. Then you go pull it another layer. All right. Is it that you feel that I never listen to you? Or is it that I actually objectively never listen? You go it again. Okay, so you feel like I don't listen to that. Well, let's talk about it. Let's keep going. It's helpful to know. I'm here.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I'm listening. I'd like to change that. You just find ways to go at it again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, it's powerful stuff. If you can, anytime when somebody is going super high, they're yelling, you go even slower. You will lower your voice because then you're the one who sounds calm and in control. And they're the one that seems like they're on the extremes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Their voice and their brain and their ear will hear that and they'll start to lower it because they don't like to be out in the extremes. So they'll start to slow themselves down. What I teach my clients is that the person that you see is often not the person you're talking to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And what I mean by that is I've had a client, not a client, but a witness that I was deposing and he was ugly with me and he was big and brash and didn't like any of the questions I was asking him. And I asked him the question, so what are you struggling with today? I said, let's just set aside the case. What are you struggling with right now?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And he went on to tell me about how he was having a hard time with his mother. He had just had to put her in a nursing home, assisted living. His father was passed away. His brother was out in the oil field. And he was the only one to take care of her. And he was just nervous about it. And he had been getting letters from attorneys. And so this big guy who was in front of me,
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Even though he was being ugly to me in that conversation, I knew that the person I saw was not the person I was talking to. You have that when every conversation you have, yeah, you see this person and they look mad and they look ugly, but who's the person you're talking to? It's the person behind the counter, the person who waits on you, the cashier.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Every one of them is a chance to have connection with that person because who you talk to right then affects how they talk to everybody else. It's a ripple effect. How you talk to your kids affects how they're going to talk to their kids.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
How you talk to the person who takes your order, if you're rude to them, well, they're going to have a harder time talking to the people that they love when they go home. So it's a big circle of life in a way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And I can tell the listener right now the kind of power that they will have. What is it? So I've had people, one of the ones recently I had was there was a wife who emailed me and said, I had an argument with my husband last night and I used one of your phrases and that was to deescalate a conversation or argument. I could have done better.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
She said, without hesitation, he said to me, I could have done better too. She said, in our 18 years of marriage, he's never said that to me. There's little phrases that you can find to deescalate that. That's true power that you can have in a relationship. In terms of the ripple effect that they're true, you have a power to affect people you will never, ever meet.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And it's a wild thought, but it's true. I had somebody email me, this is probably two months ago, who said, I am somebody who helps with couples foster homes. And these parents were arguing, and I used one of your tips on how to communicate with them to get them to stop arguing and agree on something that will forever change their kids' lives. I'll never meet these kids. They'll never know me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
they will probably never know the guy who helped them and emailed me. But it's just little things of what you say today will truly change the future of other people you'll never, ever meet. People who have autism who can now make friends just by how you say certain things and how they can communicate. Everything about you can be compressed into what you say next, and it's a beautiful thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They weren't sure exactly how to talk to their friends. They were always afraid that they were always left out of it. And so it was this mindset that I tell them is you just weren't supposed to be there and that's okay. You weren't supposed to be there. And that mindset, this father told me, helped his son understand if he wasn't invited, just meant he wasn't supposed to be there.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that he found different ways of going, well, this is where I need to be. And finding people who wanted to spend time with him, but he was feeling really hurt that he wasn't getting invited to that party or that thing. And so it's this mindset of that happens. It's okay. You just, you weren't meant to be there. You're meant to be somewhere else.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
I want you to imagine you're about to walk into somebody's office and there's gonna be that hard conversation in the room. And let's just say it's a topic of something that is, it's bad news. Put your mind wherever it is. And you walk in and somebody goes, so how are you? How are you lately? You've been good? Pickleball games, all right. Well, that's good. Well, your family's good?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Well, listen, hey, I have something that we've been talking about, and listen, I know it's not that big of a deal, and I want you to understand.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Exactly.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Because of that fear of the unknown, Mel, versus, let's say, the different scenario. Okay. You come in, say, thank you for meeting with me. Mel, I have bad news. You deliver that bad news. Versus, this isn't going to be a fun conversation. You say that. This isn't gonna be fun for us to talk about. This isn't my favorite conversation I have. You prepare them for it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Often you're afraid to disappoint people. And what that really is, is you don't believe that they have enough emotional resiliency to handle it. So you need to baby them, to tiptoe into the water instead of dipping right in. And people will admire you more. They will see you as somebody with more respect and more confidence every time when you say what you wanna say fully.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
When somebody is belittling you or giving you an insult, that hurtful comment, you make them say it again. Because what they're hoping to do in that belittling comment is get that reaction out of you. And instead, you find a way to take all the fun out of it. So when you ask them to repeat what they said, You're not giving them that hit of dopamine that they're expecting from your reaction.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
They're not getting that response time from you. Instead, you're delaying that gratification for them. Then it's just not worth it. Then it's just not fun. And so when you ask them to repeat it, to say, I need you to say that again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Sure.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Like you just said right there, you're still single.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Yeah. So exactly. I'm not going to want to say that again because now that spotlight is on me. And then also what you lead up with that is you ask questions of intent. For example, did you say that to hurt me? And now it's this mirror that they feel like, why did I say that? Oh, okay. And then they start to backtrack. Then you don't have to say anything.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
So if somebody says to you, oh, so you're still single? I need you to say that again. most likely they're not going to say that again. But if they do, then you can even repeat what they said. I'm still single. That's what you asked me? And all of a sudden they realize this isn't fun. They're not going to ask that kind of thing again. Wow.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Or you just ask that question of, did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to offend me? Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. What I meant was, and all of a sudden they're backing away because they know you're going to stand your ground.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What I think was going to happen. Yeah. They're going to love me more. Exactly. This is all going to be wonderful. So whenever you try to win in an argument, what you really win is their contempt. You know, you win another awkward conversation. Congrats. You know, it's... You've won now awkward silence when you pass each other in the kitchen. Congratulations. That's the prize.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And so when you try to win a conversation, you lose the connection. You lose credibility and you lose their trust. And so that's not the point of an argument. It's something to unravel.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Often when I can immediately come out of the gate and say, you can either ask, is this an argument? They'll almost never say no. I mean, they'll almost always say no. They'll say, no, this is just a conversation.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
They'll flip it. Almost always they'll flip it. If you say, is this an argument? They don't want to have, nobody wants to admit they're having or stirring or stemming an argument. They'll say, no, no, I'm just, I'm trying to have a conversation with you. That's when you bring it down. All right, can we have a conversation with you? And now you're like slowly bringing them down in that moment.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So when you want to win-win, it is, one, you need to slow down the time. You can add distance between what they said and how you respond. Like some conversations, we're dealing with conversations that cost $100. That's a big conversation, but yet we're giving it time. a penny of our time. That's just not, you have an imbalance there.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Or when I'm trying to have a conversation with you on my timeframe, not yours. Hey, you got five minutes? I have this huge thing that's been on my mind for the last 12 hours and you haven't thought about it for a second. I want to talk about it right now. Ready? Go. You're not even at the same playing field when that happens. So the win-win is when you can balance out. Don't try to have...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
you're at 80% and I'm at 20% feeling my energy, and yet I'm still expecting you to show up and carry the load. That's no fair.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Getting exactly what they want? You know, one thing that you said in the first episode that I loved, Which I love that this is my second time here. So much has happened since the first time. That's crazy, man. What's the chance? Oh, that's so good. It is so good. It's so good. And I... Paul Evans taught me that like 15 years ago. It's such a good one.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And it's one I've definitely added to my list of just like, man, that's so... It's just asking if there could ever be the possibility of this to happen. I'm not trying to manipulate you. I'm not trying to do anything. And the thing is, people will find a way to do it. Another one that I love, again, this is Chris Foss. Once you find a collection of people, they're like, I love what they're doing.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I need a miracle.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I need a miracle. That's good. And I did that. I used this, I was at Target and we were shopping and I wanted ice cream so bad. So we got little big pints of ice cream, but there's no spoon. They didn't sell spoons. And so, but we passed the Starbucks at Target. And she was like, no, no, no. You need to buy some. It's my wife saying, you need to buy something before you need to steal that spoon.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
The spoons are back there. And so I went up and I was like, I need a miracle. She goes, well, I don't know what I can do for you. I said that, but I'll try. I said, I got ice cream, but no spoon. And she said, I got it right here. Answered in prayer and gave me two spoons. And that was just playful, but I need a miracle.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
People love to give more than you expect.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, just a little bitty thing.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Every time. And you're allowing the other person to rise up to, you know. Be a hero. Well, to fulfill that. I mean, they'll make them feel it's just it's a mutual sense of giving. It's the givers like you talked about. And the reason why What's the Chance works, too, is that it is easy to say without feeling like you're being oppressive. Easy to say because it's like, you know.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And it's not super direct. It's just a little bit left to center that allows it to feel okay.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, when you sound, when you have the voice of Chris Voss. So you're telling me you're powerless? Yeah, I'd probably go bury my head in the sand if you'd tell me that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, sir, this is Smoothie King.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, I could see that. And if you said it from like a playful place.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But shout out to Chris Voss.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
The formula that I teach is one, the apology. This is the, I'm sorry. This is the, I apologize. Two is acknowledging how they felt by it or how they would feel by it. That's as simple as I can understand why that's upsetting. I can see how that hurt you. I can see that that was thoughtless of me. So it's relating it. It's acknowledging the feeling.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What you're saying in that moment is how you feel is reasonable. How you reacted justified. That is extremely comforting to the other person. And lastly in three is the next step. The next time I'm going to get your permission before I do X, Y, and Z. Or I'm not going to bring this up again. I'm not going to bring that topic, that sensitive trigger, whatever it is, up again. Or now I know.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's showing that there's a future remedy that's been in place. That this isn't going to be continuing. We've all been in those situations where somebody has apologized, but you know, they're going to do it again. They've apologized, best intentions, it's still going to fall into the same trap.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And so it's just the apology, plain, genuine, authentic, understanding their emotion and finding acknowledgement in that. And then the future step. Those help you in many ways, right? Send the right apology. What you can't do is what we talk about in assertive statements in the book is adding the word but.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
If you say, I'm sorry, but you did this to me, or I'm sorry, but you said, you just, anything that came before the word but, you just eliminated, you deleted it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Do you feel powerless? Is that what you're saying?
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I can't wait for this.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It actually is better.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, what you might want to do is instead of including in the same sentence, you need to put a period, enter, enter, enter, enter, tab, then begin that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, then begin that next line. Exactly. Not in the middle of it. Yeah, but the worst is the people who add the bad apologies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the kind of stuff that can just...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Don't let a single bad apology slide under your door. When somebody says, well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm sorry that you feel that way. Don't apologize for my feelings. Apologize for what you said. Apologize for what you did. It's that... Don't feel sorry for how I feel. I got those. Those are my feelings, not yours. I need you to apologize for what you said.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So it's taking ownership of that. When they say, well, I'm sorry if I upset you. It's the response of, it's not if, it's that. I mean, you're having to correct them because that's what it takes, is a continued correction of people that understand that they don't want to apologize, so they're going to deflect. People who, a toxic apology that's kind of like, well, I'm sorry, I'm such a bad friend.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I'm sorry I'm such a horrible mother.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
No, because they know what they're wanting from you in that moment is, oh, you're not that terrible. That's not what I said. Oh, yes, you did. You always do. And they're trying to take you down that They're trying to blame you. They're trying to pull you down. And all of a sudden now you, you need to apologize. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And instead it's just the, the key is the understanding of what they're doing, adding distance and saying, I'll accept an apology. Like just clean, simple. I'll accept an apology and understanding what they said is not one. So it's understanding that definition. Here's the challenge, I guess.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, there are definitely those that use apologies to manipulate. They use sometimes crying to manipulate. They know... I mean, my seven-year-old daughter, she knew when she was two. She started crying, like...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And she probably got what she want. Like, you know, so, um, it's, it is a easy trap to fall into. And somebody has thin skin. You go, God, look, I didn't, it really didn't do anything. Here are my thoughts. One, you can't be the judge if what you did was truly nothing. So that's a hard road to hoe is what my grandfather would say. You gotta be careful with it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Two, if it becomes a continued habit where this person is always the victim, always everybody's against her, everybody's against him, the world is never, those are the type of people you just need to get your hands, stiff arms slowly away from your inner circle Add distance between them because there are people that at that point, it is a control tactic that is going to start to wear you down.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So you got to, oh, it's draining. People that are just emotional sand traps that they just, they, it's always the you nevers, you always, and you go, we've already been through this. I apologize for that when it happened three years ago. So it's a careful line to walk. But my advice is you need to start to distance yourself from those people.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Now, if you really did something, of course, own up to that. And some people are just more sensitive to others in that way. But it's case by case.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
a long time being caught in this emotional sand trap it's addictive and it's just like yeah okay we make up and we're better for a couple weeks but then if i'm not getting the attention what i'm going to make you wrong for something and apologize and come give me that attention again and it's just this cycle and i had friends that um you know were with somebody who was like that and they found that they kind of secretly got some fulfillment out of always being the fixer always being the the crutch and it
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Most likely, I'm not a therapist, but probably started from their childhood of how they did that with their parents or somebody in their life that they were always having to be there as the crutch and the scapegoat for everything. But it is a position of
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
truly to bring it full circle powerlessness, you know, to, to feel like every time they're, they're taking it away from me and I can't get any traction. I mean, my biggest pet peeve when I'm dealing with, I'm kind of breaking up arguments as an attorney and having to deal with conflict or people who are circular, they can't let it go.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
They want to bring out that same issue over and over, even in that same conversation or the next time you see them. And, um, You can't be stuck in that. You're just on their merry-go-round is what happens. So you have to have the decision. One time I even advised a client. I had two sisters who were against each other. It was about as fun as it sounds.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Uh, they were very against each other and I had her lead with, I'm getting off the merry-go-round. I said, that's what I want you to start with when it comes to your time. I mean, that was the, it was more of a, a personal thing of like, I need you to let this person know I'm stepping off. You can step off with me, but we're going to put this issue aside. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
No, far from it. In the first basket of saying things with control, we talk about how the fight or flight affects in your body and how you say, I really want to say something hurtful. It's because you want to hurt the other person.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And you want to get back at them. It's not just a cutting word. It is you are wanting to cut them. It is that's the fight in it. And so it's truly you wanting to cause pain to push the threat away. Where I fall short is where I don't do what I outline in the book is I forget to take my breath out.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So when I don't lead with my breath, my first word being my breath, to make sure I'm keeping my analytical, my logical at the forefront of my brain and rather getting emotionally flooded, that's when I say things I regret. That's when I fall into getting defensive. And as soon as you get defensive, you're already starting to weaken your position.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You're already starting to lose the more defensive you get.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, there's a difference between advocating and also defending. So you can advocate a position and you can also defend a position. At the same time, you're, you're, the converse, you're also advocating for another position. In the legal world, it's a little bit different because you have to follow the law.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You can't decide what the law is going to be and you can't decide what your facts are going to be. You can only argue and advocate based upon the cards that you're dealt. And so often we use the terms defendant because maybe the state is pursuing prosecuting a criminal or maybe a plaintiff is It suits something against a defendant company in some way.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
There's these terms of defending, but really each side is advocating their particular views. So often when I'm getting defensive, it's because I'm taking things personally and choosing to hold on to something that I have all the ability to let go of at the same time.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
When you decide to take things personally, you're picking up what nobody asks you to carry. And many times if you say, that hurt me, it's because one, you're allowing it to hurt you. And in many ways, you're allowing it to hurt you and affect you.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And if you carry it for many years, because there's times when somebody said something to you many, many, many years ago, but you still remember it because it still hurts you and it still stuck with you. The same power that you allow them to hurt you is the same power you have to let it go. You're just still holding onto it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And often it is that process of making sure that you take control of yourself. You have the breath. You're able to regulate your emotions in a way that's going to allow you to continue to in that conversation without getting that fight or flight mixed up.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, that's a great question. And thank you again for having me.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, a blessing to be here in front of you again. It is a problem that is not uncommon. It's that default that you want to conflict with someone rather than connect to someone. And the way that you smooth out communication and the way you find connection is there's really three things. And it's the same formula that I want to share in my book and that I write about. It's you say it with control.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, I love, I mean, just letting it go, easier said than done.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
But what happens in conversation, same way, which is a great story and great lesson. I mean, what you've been able to go through is that when those things happen versus when somebody said it or they did it, you hold on to it and you kind of put it behind your back. You go around life talking to everybody and they don't know what you have back there, but you got something that's been hurting you.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And so when somebody is communicating with you and they're saying something that is triggering what you have in your hand, you're reacting and they don't understand it. And so too often... Like, what's going on? Yeah, yeah. And what you have to do is be able to show them what you got. That's much harder, be able to communicate with that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
One of the skills that I teach is it's helpful when you can begin your sentence with, I can tell. I can tell I'm getting defensive. Really? I can tell I'm getting sensitive. In argument, in real time, it's incredibly helpful.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What I say is when you claim it, you control it. Meaning when I say I'm getting defensive, I automatically become almost less defensive. At the same time, the other person is understanding in that moment, all right, I'm hitting an area that's going to be a trigger.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, that's when you have to, when you say it with control, you also act in control. Meaning if I tell you, I can tell I'm getting defensive. And they keep pressing. That's when you say, I need to walk away from this conversation.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, but that's much, much better, much smarter, much more powerful than continuing to dig and dig and dig while holding that problem, that issue you've always had.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You say it with confidence. And you say to connect. And when you can master these three elements, and it's almost a recipe, a formula that I give of how I communicate and how I teach, is when you do these and master these, you find that you're going to be able to show up more in effective conversations, especially the difficult ones, because it's not the last conversation.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I really do. And it's most of the time you see that people have been together for a long time. Those agreements happen naturally. So you can have a contract that is implicit. Unspoken agreements. It's not written down. Yeah. It's not written down. It's still a contract. Yeah, yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
If I go and mow your lawn, because you tell me, it's an oral contract, you tell me you're going to pay me, and then I mow the lawn, you go, sorry, it's not written down. It's still a contract. No. So often the people who have been together for a long time, those agreements form naturally. I become the person who takes out the trash.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
She becomes the person who does X or does Y because they grow out of habit and routine. Same thing. I love the idea of it comes not on assumptions, but on agreements. I find that very powerful.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And the big assumption, I think, that has to be in there, though, is you can't assume that it's not going to change. Because let's take the grandparents, for example, this yearly thing. People change. So what you wanted in year one is most likely not going to be the thing you want in year 10.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yes. And what happens, I mean, when you have kids, most of the time the agreement is kids. You don't agree on each other. And so now it's a third party into the contract. It takes up a whole lot of your time and space. intention for all the better. I mean, it's so it's beautiful.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, sounds great.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's not the last communication. There's always the next one. So when you can master the next conversation, that's when you already have a leg up in the game.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And that's what you see on the back end too, by the way, the people that you're not who I thought you were. I thought you would do this. I thought they were that. Well, it was because you had a lot of assumptions. Assumptions.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Same thing with conversations. If you and I are going to have a difficult conversation... I'm going to have that in my head long before I have the talk. And so it goes off the rails when all of a sudden you start to respond, not at all how I had it in my head. Wait, wait, wait. This isn't how it's supposed to go. This isn't how I had it rehearsed in my head. You're supposed to say, I'm sorry.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You're supposed to say, I'm right. I mean, it does not end up that way. And so instead of coming out at the beginning, let's say using a frame, getting an agreement of this is what I like to talk about.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Not trying to control every single outcome. Control is something very comfortable for everybody. We want our kid to do what we think they should do. I want somebody to react how I want them to react. I want somebody to write the email how I would write the email. So it is just a reflection of ourselves. And so I fall into the trap that anybody does. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Understanding that everybody wants to Learn more about you than you think. So what I mean by that is, in communication, there is a sense of, I want you to do what I say. And the other person goes, no, I want you to do what I say. And that's when that fight for control comes. That's when it's a tug of war. That's when you have that breakdown.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
That you want, I mean, imagine you really love communication. Somebody sends you an email and you go, God, I wish you would delete that unnecessary apology. Get rid of the word just. You could have made this one sentence. So it's something that I see a lot because it's something I'm passionate about. But yeah, I fall into the trap sometimes of
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, wanting, instead of letting it explore itself, it's the patience, it's the not getting defensive, it's the human elements and everything.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Tell me more. I got a lot of queer stories.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
When somebody starts to cry when...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So if you're in an argument and you start to cry, number one, do not for one second apologize. There's absolutely nothing that you need to say. Let me say that differently. If you begin to cry in an argument, the only response you need to have is nothing. There's no apology you need to issue for crying. It is what your body does naturally. The higher the tension, the higher the release.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
If you are going to say anything, then you are going to label the tears. You're going to say, these are tired tears. These are tears that care. These are tears that are frustrated. You label them. It is your stress in liquid form. And that's all it is. And it's nothing to be ashamed of. Now, if somebody is, let's say, on the other side of it, and you're talking to them and they start to cry,
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What you don't do is go, oh, Jesus, again. Oh, great. Oh, what? Let me guess. You're going to cry? Now you're going to cry. Yeah. Okay. You're crying now. Like that is the worst because you're saying you're not a safe place. If what I don't want somebody crying to do is say, I'm sorry. Don't apologize and say, I'm so sorry I'm crying. Take that, throw it away. Don't ever say that again.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
There's nothing to apologize for what your body does. If somebody else is crying, you're not going to apologize for them crying either. Understand that that is their body doing what their body needs to do because it is a stressful situation. If you need to, you can get a tissue and put it down. Don't feel like you need to put it in their face and go, okay, fine. You good? Get it all out.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Oh, great. Okay, I guess we'll just wait.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
anytime you do that is just eroding the trust you need to just continue to talk to them as if they're not because it serves as a distraction otherwise and it eliminates that idea of somebody using tears to manipulate too so it's a good way of just continuing to talk to them keep talking keep talking acting like they're not crying really yeah yeah what if they need a moment and they're really like having their that's different if you say hey we can we can pause for a moment if you just want to
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Absolutely. There's nothing wrong to say, hey, you need, you want to take a timeout? Nothing wrong with that. But it's the, when you act exasperated, if you roll your eyes and take a big sigh, that's where you, that's where you eroding the trust. You need to be a safe space for that. I was just saying, it's not bothering you. So if you can just say, I'm still here. Keep going. Like, you're good.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Keep going. Like that's typically, if you can just say, keep going, it is saying, hey, don't worry about that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And don't ever act exasperated. Sure. That's a bad way to do it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
One is, the best way to show up for somebody who's grieving, one, do not begin your sentence with, let me know if. Like, let me know if there's anything I can do. Don't start with that. Don't start with that. Let me know if. And they can turn this a million different ways. Let me know if you need anything. Let me know if there's anything I can do.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
But the line that I have, and it's one of the first things in the book I want to ask everybody to understand, is the person that you see is not the person that you're talking to.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It is disingenuous often when you say, let me know if. Because what it does is put all the responsibility on you. Hey, I checked my box. I just said, sorry. And I said, let me know if you need anything. I guess if they don't get back with me, they didn't need anything. And that's just not, that's not genuine. When somebody is grieving, the last thing they need is another burden put on them.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Another, oh, it's now on me to now ask out and reach out. Instead too, you just do it. Do the thing. If you wanted to bring groceries, go bring groceries. If you want to make their life better, go make their life better. Otherwise, don't act like you do. Don't say things that you don't mean.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So it's much better to say, I'm so sorry for your loss than have this fictitious, let me know if you ever need anything. It's generally, most of the time, I'm not going to say not every time, most of the time, it is just to make the person who's offering it feel better.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And so it is, I'm talking, I see Lewis, but. But you're talking to a hurt little boy. Yeah, I mean. Talking to a hurt little boy who's reactive or who's triggered. Yeah. And inside we're all kids. Inside we're all adults.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, because you want to make sure you're not overreaching, you're not doing too much. And I say it comes across as disingenuous. What I mean is it can be all the right intent. Like you are offering to say something because you truly feel for them. And often people have a hard time knowing what to say. They do. It's just they lock up. If I say this, it's going to say this.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It can be kind of a stressful situation to do. reach out to somebody and they just don't know any better. So I'm not trying to say that they don't have the best intentions. I think anybody who says, I'm sorry for that hardship, their intentions are pure. It's just when you say, let me know if you're really just giving them another chore. That's what you're doing.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I would, I would, I would leave it at that or that I'm thinking, just thinking of you, like just that alone. But don't say that. I'm here for you when you're really not.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Like you're in shock. Exactly.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
kids with who've things have been done to us and said to us that we would never tell other people that we never want to remember and things that that will always be a very hard road for us to to find peace in but that's the the goal is that you have to understand I see somebody, but that's not exactly who I'm talking to. Yes, you're talking to your spouse at 8 o'clock in the evening.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's a dagger. And people, grief isn't linear. I mean, people experience it in different ways and different depths and in their own way. And I was going to add that three is you want to agree with their pain. So don't try and minimize it. That's what we want to do. Well, at least they're in a good place. A lesson. Yeah. Well, I mean, it could have been worse.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Instead, what you want to say is, nobody should have to go through that. Man, that's terrible. I can't believe that happened. I mean, that is whatever thoughts they're needing to have that you think that they're having, you are agreeing with their pain. Don't try and lessen it in some way. That is, let them feel it fully. And you do that by agreeing with it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You'll be apologizing if you do.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
The person you see, the person you're talking to is somebody who they got derailed at 9 a.m. from a text from someone who put them in a bad mood. The person who's bringing you your coffee kind of gave it to you late and seemed not to really care. It's the person you see. The person you're talking to is somebody who is worried about their kids,
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I mean, there's all kinds of different ways of seeing the other person. And it's this concept that everybody knows that there's a surface and a depth to everyone, but it's injecting that into your communication. And if you can only be curious enough to find that other person that you don't see, that's where the growth begins.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, I find that it is hard. It's way hard. A key is to ask more questions than statements.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Hmm. There's one that I love and it's bar friend, Chris Foss. And he says, sounds like you have a reason for saying that. I love that question so much. It sounds like you have a reason for saying that because there's always a reason that they have for saying it. Um, and they, they may not feel comfortable sharing it until you ask that question.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And they're going to,
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Exactly. And this one isn't a question, but it's very close to it. And it's tell me more. What else? If you had to put that in the question, it would be what else? But tell me more is one of my go-tos because there's always more.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It can. It can, but that's just, it's that metaphor of you can't pour your glass into a pitcher that's already full. You got to let them pour it all out before they'll ever accept anything new into their mind. And what's the third one? The third one would be, are you okay? Okay. And you can't do it from a sarcastic point. Yeah. Yeah. Are you okay?
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's, it's a genuine, it's an authentic, are you okay? Because so many times I, I'm not okay. But if somebody would just ask me, that would make me feel a little bit better.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yes.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's most impactful. This tell me more mindset is especially when the other person is angry. Oh yeah. If I have a conversation with somebody and they're heated and they're mad at anything, maybe they're mad at me and I say, Tell me more. They'll tell you more.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And then you keep letting go and you go, all right, tell me more. I mean, it's therapeutic in a way where you're just taking it in and you're just listening. The hard part is not grabbing a hook. Yeah, yeah, of course.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. We don't ever do that. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, of course.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Not having enough assertiveness in that communication.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yes. You know, you have the area of control of controlling yourself. And by controlling yourself and understanding your own triggers, you're better to see those triggers in other people. Step two is saying it with confidence, meaning you learn to say things assertively. You say things that are going to Make sure they know where you stand, that you say what you mean and mean what you say.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
That's a whole lot harder for a lot of people because they don't want to step on toes. They don't want to... Be very direct. They'd rather type it on that keyboard and put it in a YouTube comment than ever say it to your face. I see a lot of that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I want to make sure that I give your folks what I find to be the number one tool for difficult conversations and how to make sure you have them most effectively is a frame. And so when you can put a frame around a difficult conversation, you take the difficult out of it because it's only difficult because we say it's difficult.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I mean, other people could listen in on the conversation and go, well, that's not that bad. You just said X, Y, and Z. But to us internally, we just, we stew on it. And number one on how to have a frame for handling difficult conversations is when you tell them what you want to talk about. It can be as easy as, hey, Lewis, I'd like to talk about what you said at dinner on Monday night.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Two, this is the big one. You tell them how you want to feel after the conversation. That's big. And three, you get their buy-in. So it could look like, The first step being, hey, Lewis, I'd love to talk about the comment you made at the meeting on Tuesday. And at the end of this conversation, I'd love for us to have a better understanding of our priorities.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Or maybe it's as simple as, and there's nothing I want to solve, or I'm not looking for an answer. I just need you to know this. Simple as that. Does that sound good? Does that work? That's the buy-in part. That's the three of that, all right? They say, yeah, and it's kind of like what you just said. Once you can do that and you get their buy-in, they go, all right, I can stick with this.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Now you have the frame. Now you don't have to talk about anything else. You don't have to say, oh, yeah, and by the way, while we're on this, I have this other complaint that I have I didn't tell you about. Yeah, from three months ago.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Oh, yeah. And hey, by the way, stop doing that. You're very focused. It's the idea if you have a million issues to talk about, you're not talking about any issue. You're just saying things to say you said them.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Ooh, being generous with your ears, being able to listen a whole lot more than you're talking, being able to just find a way to... If they say that something is wrong, that does not automatically mean that they need you to make it right. There are things that has to have a hash out. I am someone that is an internal thinker. You could say something to me and I'm going to think on it for a while.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I'll chew on it. I'm not going to talk out loud. Really? Yeah. Oh man, that's hard for me. And so I don't process my thoughts that way of just having to talk it out loud the whole time. To me, it wears me down. wears me down. My personality is the more you talk about emotions, sometimes the more I start to feel them. I'm extremely sensitive to emotions of others.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I have the tendency of like feeling things for them. I have a hard time watching a movie where an awkward moment happens. It just makes me cringe. But it's a good lesson for me. Also understanding that when you can find ways just to hear out the emotion without trying to do anything with it, I think is a very valuable skill.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I think it's also very attractive to have a lot of patience in just all things. all things that I just have a whole lot of patience. Yeah, man. Yeah. And that's something that I continually pray for.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
No doubt.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You were given the tools.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
When you win an argument, you lose a lot more. Meaning, if I say that thing that I know is going to smash, it feels great.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You feel like you just, attaboy.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You're high-fiving everybody down the hall. When you finally hit that zinger, oh, this is so sweet. Like, and you text it and you want to show the friend, like, oh, you see that? Man, that's so good. Yeah. And then that lasts for a glimmer. Yeah. I mean, and then you wake up the next day and you look at it and you go, what an idiot. What I think was going to happen.