Jefferson Fisher
Appearances
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When somebody is belittling you or being rude or being disrespectful, what we typically want to do is throw it right back because now we got to win. Instead of that, here's what I would want you to do. One, you're going to have five to seven seconds of silence. Two, you're going to ask them to say it again because a lot of time in arguments, people take it back.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I mean, like, you know what I mean? But there's something about it where these kind of people in your life that you're looking and drawn to the calm energy, the anchors in your relationship and your conversations, the people that just to be near them, calms you down. Just to be around them, you go, okay, great. Stephen's here. I feel better. Good. Okay, he's here.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
All right, things are going to go all right. Because they're looking for the person who is going to be the lead, not just in the conversation, but the frequency of the room. It's a calm energy that you have to capture.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You can see that a lot in interviews. The person who you go, oh, this person is smart, is when you ask them a regular interview question, and if they give a breath before they answer, you go, oh, they actually are listening to me. The ones that have this rapid fire of...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So let's say, for example, and this uses another technique that we'll talk about, is if you were to say, would you bring some value? Do you think you'd bring value to this company? And if I automatically said, oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I would. I think I'd bring a lot of value to this company. Versus? I'm confident I bring a lot of value to this company.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Like you hear all of a sudden, you go, that's my person. They actually heard me, considered it, and I'm really curious about what they're going to say next.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Right. And that's why every time I teach a client and I'm preparing them for their deposition, what they call a depo.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. So people that hire me in my law firm.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And now that's translated to me doing it on my phone and teaching people in my own membership is I would say, okay, let your breath be the first word. And once you do that, you're going to be, the other person's going to go, oh man, they really listened to my question. See, attorneys, we want to get you. We want to get you in a rapid fire. We want you to answer very quickly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Even better is when you start to step over my question and answer the question that you think I'm already going to ask. When you do that, that means you're not listening. You're not listening. But when I can get a client to stop, breathe, and go, Yeah, you know what? That's not fair.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I had a client, Elizabeth, who one time when I was prepping her, I would kind of, I would act as the other attorney. So I'd do that often to help get them and simulate what's going to happen. I would say, all right, Ms. Carson, come on. I need you to answer this question. That's true. It's fair to say you didn't see that other car, did you? And I kind of start to push them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That gets them really nervous. You know, they're, oh my gosh, and their nerves get up. It's because they're not breathing. When people start to shake, it's not breathing. And so she didn't know what to say when I'm prepping her. Come time after I taught her about her breath, same question. Somebody said, and I knew this attorney, I knew he was going to ask that question.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
He said, it's fair to say you didn't see that at the car. And she took a breath. She goes, no, that's not fair to say. I mean, I just left it at that. I mean, and he just couldn't really do anything with it. But the bigger thing was it gave her the confidence of saying, no, I listened. I see where you're going with this. I'm not going to go there.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And so it helps you navigate and empower you really with the tools of making sure you're always saying it with control. Another part of saying with control is slowing your words down. When people talk really fast, without thinking about it, it gets us kind of anxious. When somebody is talking really, really fast, you're like, okay, I'm trying to understand you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's harder, let's say, I mean, I like hip-hop. I like rap music. If you listen to somebody who's rapping really, really fast and you can't understand a word they're saying, you're kind of like, okay, I'm lost in this song. I like the beat. That's great, but I can't understand what you're saying. people that slow their words down shows a lot more effectiveness when you communicate.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So let's illustrate this. I want you to say quickly with almost some exasperation, I already told you I'm not going to do that. Say that real quick. I already told you I'm not going to do that. Say it louder. I already told you I'm not going to do that. Perfect. Now what you have to do is slow it down. Slow it way down. Each word, you don't have to have the disdain with it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Just slow it down and say it again.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Say it even slower.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, man, that's awesome. So you see how without the emotion, you sounded even more in control. Somebody who goes, I already told you I'm not going to do that, says, I have maybe 5% control. But if I slow it down, same thing, and I say, I already told you I'm not going to do that. Now I sound like I have 100% control. This is the person you go, whoa, okay. They're not moving off their spot.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They're not somebody who's, I can't press their buttons and control their emotions that way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Somebody who would be not aware of their emotions, not aware of their triggers. Somebody who just, let's put it as a lack of awareness of certain things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. I mean, they play a role with anything. My counter to that is we can overcome it. It's not your self-esteem that's talking. It's the words. The words do it for you. We have people who have a hard time saying what they want. It's the words that they need to say.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So when somebody is having a hard time with self-esteem, what I find is all I need to do is get them to start beginning their sentences with certain words, and it's always a different outcome. They just don't know how to begin it. So it's very curious on how somebody who rarely does people with self-esteem issues say, I need, for example.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They typically don't like to say that because it feels too forward. Somebody who has self-esteem issues will typically begin with, so maybe like, and I was thinking this, and you can totally tell me if I'm wrong, but that's the kind of thing that you typically hear. They're just using the wrong words to begin their sentences. Yeah. You have to find words that push the progress of the sentence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
For example, if someone says like all the time. I mean, when you said that, like, it just really upset me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That doesn't push the sentence forward. If you trade out the word like for the word because, I mean, that just hurt because when you said that, that hurt me. I'm pushing the sentence forward rather than letting it drag. And so it's just these little bitty tweaks that one or two words make a big, big difference. So that was the first point. You said control. Yeah, control. Say it with control.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Okay. Is there a second point? Number two, say it with confidence.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
How do I say something with confidence? You have to first understand what it is. And I don't mean that in like a woo-woo setting. A lot of people come to me and go, how do I have the confidence to say this? I'm getting up the courage or confidence to say that. It's the wrong way to look at it. Confidence is not what you have before. Confidence is the outcome.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm Jefferson Fisher. I'm a board-certified trial attorney, and I teach people how to argue less, and say more. And I'm on a mission to help change everything about someone simply by what they decide to say next. What is a trial attorney? Is that a lawyer? Yeah, it's a lawyer, attorney, same thing. And what do you do as a trial attorney? So I help people resolve conflict, resolve problems.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And you get to that by saying things that are assertive. What I teach is confidence is as assertive does. So when you learn how to use your assertive voice, the result is feeling confident. Like if I were to tell you right now, Stephen, I need you to feel sad. You have a hard time feeling sad. If I said, I need you to be afraid right now, you'd be like, I don't know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I mean, what is there to be afraid of? Like, you just can't conjure that feeling. Now, if I, for whatever reason, just gave you an elbow to the chest, I mean, you'd be, like, upset, right? You don't have to wonder what it's like to feel mad. You're going to feel it. It's the same with confidence. You can't just conjure up the feeling of confidence. You only get it by doing assertive things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And the people that are most confident – I find are the people that have done the thing already. So they have already said the assertive thing. They've already used their voice because the more assertive they are, the more confident they're going to feel. That's the way it works. So you do it. You find confidence by using your assertive voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Right.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's a balance. It's a balance between sounding almost passive and sounding aggressive. Assertive says, I'm willing to be direct with you even in the face of it not going well, but I'm at least going to give you my truth. Or I'm going to say what I need to say without sounding rude. Whenever you are direct with someone, it's also very kind to someone.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If I were to tell you and prep the sentence with, Steve, I'm going to tell you this because I know you can handle it. That's different than me going, hey, look, this is probably going to upset you. And I don't mean to upset you, but you just let me know. That is a whole lot harder. The assertive voice is I'm going to be very direct.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
At the same time, I'm going to say it with a sense of this doesn't have to do with me trying to push my way. I'm just letting you know where I stand. You don't have to always play nice. That's not what I'm saying. There are times when somebody says something that's terrible to you. You don't have to push back. You just can't be pushed over.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And so when you learn your assertive voice, that's where you find ways to speak your truth more easily and more readily. So one of the first words or lessons of say it and using your assertive voice is that every word matters. The number one culprit of that is the word just. We use the word just a lot. It's probably one of my weaknesses that I have is using the word just.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
In common conversation, no problem. Nobody cares. But when it comes to having to push a boundary, say something at work, be a little bit more on your toes, just has a way of making you sound hesitant. The most common way we hear that is if somebody goes, maybe an email or a text, hey, just wanted to check in with you. Hey, do you have five seconds? Just wanted to touch base with you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It sounds like you're hesitant, as if like, I don't really want to bother you. If you remove the word just, now you're leaning into it. So instead of, I just want to check in, I wanted to check in with you. that's a lot more forward, a lot more forward progress rather than just using the word just. But every little word matters.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You've had those texts where somebody gives you like a whole paragraph. I don't know how to respond to this. What I teach is that the longer your answer, the more questions you're going to get, the longer that conversation is going to go, the longer the argument is going to go. So you have to find ways to say more with less.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So if you have a problem with someone, you have a choice, Do you go and just punch them in the mouth or do you sue them? A lot of the times it's something that somebody has hurt you that they cannot give back to you. So the only way they do that in the law is to compensate them with money. And so you can sue just about anybody. So that's how we resolve conflict here a lot in America.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yes. It's this idea of the more words it takes to tell the truth, the more it sounds like a lie. The more you have to say to explain something to me, the more I start to assume you don't know what you're talking about. And we have this way of, I guess they call it word vomit, where you talk a whole lot. People get lost in your sentences.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And also when you choose to speak, it makes a very big difference. Like, have you ever been in one of those meetings and there's always this one person that has to throw in their two cents? They always have to throw out their idea or be the devil's advocate or have something to say at every single issue that gets brought up.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Most of the time, those are the people that are honestly the least connected to what's actually happening or at least part of the conversation because they want you to know how smart they are or how many people they know. These are the same people that name drop like every other sentence. The person that is like, you know, oh, I was talking with Steven the other day. Oh, you know Steven, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, yeah, great guy. And they start to name drop just so you know how many people that they know. Insecurities are very loud. Confidence, on the other hand, is very quiet. Insecure people have the need to say everything so that I sound more believable, so you'll know how much I know and how smart I am. Confident people have the urge to say nothing because they have nothing to prove.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If you disagree with me on something that I know to be true, I wouldn't be nearly as affected. Let's say we both have on a black shirt. If you were like, Jefferson, this is a dumb purple shirt you have on. Okay. Like I don't need to convince you what I already know the color of my shirt is.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's like if you know that about yourself, what you have internally inside, you don't have the need, the insecurity to prove it to everybody else that they're wrong. The confidence is very quiet. The people that are typically the most looked to are the people that say the least.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
No. I mean, the people that are not emotionally intelligent, the people that don't have the emotional awareness, yeah, you can press their buttons and play them like a fiddle. Because what they've done is that would be like me giving you the remote. Say, here, here's the remote to my emotions. Go ahead, play them. Press that button. Oh, yeah. Oh, you made me angry? How dare you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Instead of handing out remote controls, you get in the habit of giving out manuals. And so if you want to yell at me and press my button... And me to say, you can't yell at me like that versus me handing you a manual and go, hey, I heard you yell at me. If you don't mind, go to page 72. You can look on paragraph three. I don't respond to that volume.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Like you're giving a whole different mind shift of this is what I tolerate and this is what I don't tolerate.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, people pleasing is very hard. I mean, the thing is you can please people, just make sure that you're one of them. And that's the harder part is I'm always – people say I'm always saying yes to things. I don't know how to say no to things. I don't know where to go with this. That's a whole lot harder. Using your assertive voice is – helps with that in a lot of ways.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's the same for the U.K. and litigation. So what we do is we advocate on behalf of other people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And it is about trying to make sure that when you people please with people, you have to find a way to set a boundary that is going to protect yourself.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. Where they also go into trouble is when people, what I see a lot, are people that over-apologize. I find that that is big with people pleasers, where they say, I'm sorry in every single sentence. Hey, so sorry I'm just now getting back to you. Sorry I just now seen this. Oh, I can't come. So sorry. They start to apologize for things that are not a mistake.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They apologize for things that are not errors. And when you start to over-apologize with every little thing, without you knowing it, it's slowly, drip by drip, corroding your sense of self-esteem, your sense of self-worth. Your self-worth is not tied to how little of an inconvenience you can make yourself. But I was saying, so sorry, I don't mean to bother you. I just have a quick question.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And three, this is where it gets fun. I want you to say... That's where your real power is because it shows that you're the one in control and they're the ones that are not. I'm Jefferson Fisher. I'm a board-certified trial attorney and I help people resolve conflict, resolve problems.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Instead of the over-apologies, what I teach is use words of gratitude. So instead of the, so sorry I'm late, even though you were like one minute late. Thank you for waiting on me. Or let's say it's an email. Thank you for giving me the time to think on this. Thank you for giving me the time to reply. Thank you for giving me the patience. And you know what the other person is going to think?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I am patient. Oh, yes, I am. You're so welcome. I mean, you're using words of gratitude to press that. And that's a whole lot easier than the problem of people pleasers. And that's just over apologizing to just about everything. Or they undercut their words. Or they say like, I hate to bother you, but... And then they have to say what they need to say.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So it's going to most often, it's just going to come down to their personality. But overall, your most effective leaders find ways of taking a lot of ideas and words and saying them very concisely. The bigger leaders, they don't write long emails.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They don't write long texts.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, I have found in my own life that the richer somebody is, they could care less about an email signature. If they even have one, and they might give you two sentences, maybe. I mean, it's very, very quick and to the point. because it's either they really don't have the time. It's not really that. They want to have the appearance of being very direct, and they don't see that as an offense.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They don't see that as an insult. They see that as that is the way that I'm going to operate. They don't write long emails. They don't write them in a way that's going, hey, I just want to put this on your plate, and if I'm wrong about this, you can totally let me know, and I have a question about this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, what I say, the words that I give give me the difference between somebody getting their peace of mind back or losing everything.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, we say it with control, say it with confidence, and three is say it to connect. These are how do you have these difficult conversations with somebody? How do you find ways to say what you need to say in one of the most difficult times?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That gives a lot of people anxiety if they know they have to have a difficult conversation, even in weeks ahead, especially the day ahead, they're just dreading it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
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Yeah, what you want to do is get really curious about the other person, but not just so much that there is a framework that I can even give you. So we can go a step further. There is a framework. And I call them conversational frames. When to connect with somebody, it is a fancy word. I think connection can be overused at times.
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It just means I say something that you can understand and you acknowledge me. That's all we're looking for. It doesn't mean that everything's happy. It doesn't mean that it's a Hallmark car. I can connect with you. and still be upset at you. My dad used to tell me if I disagree with something, he'd say, he'd go, you don't have to like it. You just need to understand it.
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I mean, that right there was a great example of allowing me to connect with him and giving me the space to disagree. If you were to begin your sentence with, I'm not asking to change your mind, or I don't need to change your mind, it's almost like a relief before you say the rest of what you need to say. Now you're not in that combative fight or flight of, do I have to defend myself at any time?
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So connection is this way of setting up conversations that is going to get you more of what you want. We talked about the frame. Here's how to do it. And this is the most effective tool that you can use for a difficult conversation. Number one, you're going to begin with telling them what you want to talk about.
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Number two, you tell them, and this is the most important, how you want to end the conversation, what you want to walk away from. And three, you get their buy-in into that conversational frame. This is what it sounds like. Let's say this is, I need to come to you and talk about something serious. So first I'm going to say what we need to talk about.
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Steven, I'd like to talk with you about some comments you made at last Thursday's meeting. Two, I'm going to tell them how I want to walk away. It sounds like, and I want to walk away from that conversation with the understanding that's not going to happen again. Three, I'm going to get their buy-in. I'm going to say, that sound good? You're going to say, yeah.
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Now you know exactly where we're going. You know exactly what we're going to talk about, you know, when that conversation is going to end and how it's going to end. And now I have your buy-in. And it's like almost an invisible contract when somebody goes, yeah, that's good. We can talk about that. They don't want to leave it. They don't want to break their words.
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So they know that they're going to be stuck in it.
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number one would be set the goal of knowing where it's going to end. That is the hardest, probably the biggest downfall of the difficult conversation. People expect them to go how they had it in their head. They want the conversation to happen just like they had it while they were brushing their teeth that morning or driving on the way into work. They're like, okay, I'm going to say this.
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And then they're going to say this. And you expect everything to go just how you had it in your head. But as soon as they say that one thing you weren't expecting, All of a sudden, they disagree with you, and you go, wait, that's not how it's supposed to be. They were supposed to say this. They were supposed to say I'm right. They were supposed to say they're wrong. I mean, how's this going to go?
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And then it begins to falter like that.
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I teach that you never want to win an argument, and this is why. When you look to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship. If you set out to only prove people wrong, you might win the point, but you will lose the person. Being right doesn't keep you company. Let's put it that way. When I look at arguments as only something to win,
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So I grew up while other kids were maybe playing when they got home. I got picked up and taken to my dad's deposition because my dad was the only one who could get me at that time. And so I sat in the corner with a yellow notepad doodling while he is finishing the rest of his deposition. Or I'd go to... Watch his trial. I saw lots of closing arguments.
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All of one is really the first step to apologize, typically, when you set out to win. Because most arguments aren't really won. It's just they're won by forfeit. Somebody goes, I'm over this. Or you said something that was really hurtful that makes them say, we're done. I don't want to talk about this. An argument eventually burns out. That's what happens.
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But when you set out to win, you will lose the relationship. Like if you and I are in an argument, and I say something that's really hurtful, and then you leave, you hang up the phone. What have I won? Yeah, I mean, I've won awkward silence now when we pass each other in the hall. I've won that awkward feeling now I have to pick up the phone and apologize.
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I still have to find a way to probably work with you or live with you. What have you proven? When has ever you go on the social media and disparage somebody's political belief ever changed their mind, ever?
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Yeah, you will.
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Yeah.
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That's not to explain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not an uncommon experience. Whenever you feel like you had to always be right, that's what we really want. We want the last word. When you have the last word, you are typically first up to apologize. That's all you've bought yourself. That's your prize. Congrats. And when that happens, you find a way of going, that's not really what I want.
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I wondered, why did I say that? That was just hubris. That was just me. I just had a feeling of being right. And sometimes we have that feeling of Especially in terms of people that are in charge of other people, we expect others to do what we say. When you're in work mode and you say, I need this done, people get it done. You set the tone. This is how we want to do it.
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And sometimes we translate that into our own romantic relationships. Oh, no, I said it needs to be this way. So you know what you need to do? You need to do it this way. And it's a different shift when you're doing something that's romantic versus something that is you have to be captain of the ship.
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And so whenever you're in those difficult conversations, you only seem something to win, you're going to have a hard problem. What I teach is instead of seeing arguments as something to win, you see them as something to unravel, meaning what we want to do is pull my way, and then you pull it your way, and it just makes it worse. It makes it worse.
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We have to give up, and it's not until that next conversation that we actually try and care of what happened. I will often tell someone, help me find the knot. Help me find the knot. And what I'm doing is encouraging them to say, I'm not saying, what's wrong with you? I'm not saying, can you be any more stupid? I'm saying, help me find the nod.
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And so I got to see firsthand courtroom stories. I mean, any of these people who've been in trial litigation, they're all wonderful storytellers. So you get to hear that and hear how they ask questions before they say they give an answer. And so you get to...
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It's a way of detaching the issue, detaching the problem, saying this is something for us both to look at, help unravel what am I missing? That phrase right there is very, very effective. If you can just ask them the question, what am I missing? They will always tell you. Because most likely it's not something that you're focused on. You're only focused on what you're saying.
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You're not focused on what they're hearing. Big, big difference.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, so let's say that this glass right here is all of my thoughts and knowledge, and your glass is all of your thoughts and knowledge, and not just what you think now. These are things that you've known throughout your entire life.
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So if I were to tell you something about I want to get your thoughts, maybe a political opinion or something that's a religious belief, I'm talking like deeply held beliefs that you grew up with, that's what's in that cup right there.
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When we go into a conversation with someone, often what we find is, especially if it's like a stranger, that what I say in our first conversation should convince you automatically that if I were to take all of my knowledge right here and I pour it in, there should be no problem. But what happens? When I start to pour into here, It overflows, meaning you have no room.
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You have no room for what I want to share whatsoever. It's going to just, it's overflow. Instead, what you have to find ways to ask questions and get really curious, meaning instead of me pushing my point, instead of saying, why do you believe that? Beginning your question with why. I start to get really curious about how did you come to believe that? Where did you learn that?
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When did this happen? Ways that I get to ask questions every day, like I do as a trial attorney, to find ways of getting to the issue of what's that deeply held belief? Where does it come from? Because only then, let's go ahead and pour yours into mine. There you go. Perfect. And so it's only then until you have space that I'm asking questions.
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Whenever I ask questions and you start to answer just a little bit more and then you answer just a little bit more to where you actually have space to care at all to what I'm going to tell you. Like you can't fill, I can't fill a glass that's already full with new thoughts. It's not going to happen. It's not until I can get you to pour it all out
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Really, I had a first-row view of how litigation happens and how to persuade and what are the levers in conversation that push that forward progress.
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till you'll ever be receptive and have room for what I want to share with you. So that's the key in difficult conversations that you have to find ways to get really curious about who's the person behind the words, because the person you see isn't the person you're talking to.
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I might be talking to Steven right now, but there are things that happen in your life that you believe that happened long before. I ever talked to you. And we have this hubris about us that we think that just because I told you you should believe something right at this moment, you're going to automatically change your mind. Minds don't get changed in one conversation.
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They happen over a year of a hundred conversations, a thousand conversations before anybody will ever be receptive to what you have to say.
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Yeah. So let's put it in terms of, I've had a client before. This is not, let me rephrase that. I had a deposition before where I was talking to a witness and he was a huge mountain of a man. His name is Bobby LaPre. I'm talking, Stephen, he was huge. His hands, I mean, he just looked, I looked like I was physically deficient in every way next to this guy.
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And it didn't matter what I asked him, Steven, he got mad at me. I mean, I was asking him basic things like, where were you born, okay? And where'd you go next and what happened next? And every time he would just get angrier and angrier. And eventually I had to ask him, I said, do you need a break? And he said, no, but I got something to say.
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And I thought he was about to just flip the table on me. He was just so furious. And I asked him, well, once he even told me, he said, you can cut all this buddy-buddy stuff. Except he didn't say stuff. And he said, you lawyers, you attorneys, you're the worst thing to happen in this government. You're the worst thing to happen.
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So you can go on and ask your stupid questions, but I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. Well? Well? Instead of taking that bait, which most people wanted to do, I asked him a question. I said, What am I missing? What are you struggling with right now in your life? What's been your biggest struggle? And they have to answer questions in a deposition.
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And what I learned was that he, big Bobby LaPre, this huge guy, had just put his mother in a nursing home, and he was the only one to take care of her. His dad had died. His brother was off. And he had been getting letters for months saying, about his mom and her home from lawyers, about foreclosing, making demands, debt collection, all these things that he just didn't understand.
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And so right then in that moment, I represented everything he knew about the law and lawyers and everything else. And so the person I saw was an aggressive, mad witness. The person I was talking to was a worried son. And we got to talk that out, and I helped him, and it ended wonderful. We ended up actually hugging.
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But every day you have these micro moments of the person you see is not the person you're talking to. The waitress that looks like she's being rude and dismissive is actually worried because she should have gotten off two hours ago. and her mom is still keeping her kids. Or you have somebody who, even in the workplace, who seem like they're a little bit short on their phone call with you.
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Somebody who looks like they're aggravated, actually their day began because he and his wife were going through a divorce and they stayed up all night arguing. Everybody has a struggle that you can't see. They're having a conversation in their head that you were not invited to.
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Where some people would teach you how to play an instrument, I tell you what chords to play. I give you the sheet music. And so once you know where you are, even in your voice, what matters are the actual words that you say.
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And so when you have the patience to try and understand the person behind the words, that's going to go a whole lot better for you, and they'll feel that. When you just want to accept them for what they look like, it's always different. If I were to tell you you were wrong about something, For me to change your mind, like right now, I most likely am not saying that Stephen's wrong.
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I'm saying your parents are wrong. I'm saying a grandparent's wrong. Something you grew up your whole life was wrong. A camp you went to growing up was all wrong. There's pieces and identities that have all combined into what you believe now. And we have this...
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Right. Knowing your trigger is one of the biggest ways to defend against that, to know your trigger. And it's funny how, just like your friend is telling you, so many things in everybody's life goes back to the playground. Like we can remember that thing that that one kid said, like right now, you can probably remember it. Somebody said in high school. Came straight to mind.
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And I can change two sentences, two words, and change your life just by what you decide to say next because where you've been in your whole life comes down to your communication and how you handle conflict. Where you left one relationship because of most likely some type of communication led you to another or where you are in your job or where you are in a podcast.
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And it's been years, years, but you remember it and it lives with you for that long. It was just simply what they had said in that moment that you've created that identity. That's a trigger. And if you tend to hit somebody with a trigger, it's different. Like you can always, it's very telling in the courtroom when, Somebody takes a level one conversation and they ratchet it up to a level 10.
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It's very disproportionate. And it tells you that there's a conversation happening in their head that you weren't invited to. It tells you that something else is going on. And when you have the patience and the discipline to find that person, rather than just fighting the surface, you will always have a deeper connection with that other person.
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Yeah.
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Well, I don't want to just say curious because I think that doesn't do it justice. One would be you have to delay what they said from when you respond. You have to add a lot of distance there because if you continue to engage and go, why can't you talk about this? What's wrong with you? That will only spiral it more. What they're going to hear is something is wrong with
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with me, something I am feeling is bad, when in that moment their body is fighting. Their body is going, I feel threatened. I feel anxious. I got to get out of here. And it's happening in microminutes. There's nothing you're going to be able to say that's going to help that trigger aside from you allowing them the space to have it.
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So that means you're going to find ways to approach conversations with that in mind. So one would be adding distance and not addressing it in that current conversation because they're triggered. You don't want to do that. You want to find it in the second conversation. So in the first one, you can easily end it with, hey, we can drop it, not a problem. We can talk about it later.
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Because problems happen, Stephen, when you try and push people away
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into having conversations on your timeline in other words when they're not ready ever had somebody come up to you and go hey i need to talk to you right now and and you're like oh you want to talk like that's the last thing you're you're trying to control my time this is not what i want to talk about right now and i'm not ready for this conversation and that that causes a big problem when somebody's trying to push their timeline on you um we can talk about ways to deal with that but it is
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That's what happens. And when you do it with somebody, going, what's wrong with you? Why can't you talk about this right now? You're just pushing them into a corner, and you're making them harder. I mean, they become hardened. They'll totally shut off from you. Then they're gone. Then they won't come back for several days, most likely. So when you start to push on them, things will go wrong.
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So that's when somebody's feeling triggered. That second conversation, that next conversation is the, I'd like, let's put a frame on it. I'd like to talk about what we began talking on on last Monday, and I'm not trying to solve anything. I just want to understand where you're coming from so that I can do better. Can we do that?
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It all comes down to what you've communicated and where you are in the conversation at all times.
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Like right there, that's going to be a much better way to set up and frame that difficult conversation rather than going, hey, so question for you, what's up with you? Because something's off, all right? That's the way that you're going to trigger them again. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
really attracted to comebacks of things. And I find that so funny. But it's a big part of communication for an important reason. When somebody is, let's say, belittling you or being rude or being disrespectful, there's kind of... I teach a little bit of a different method for each one. And how you handle it makes a very big difference.
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What we typically want to do when somebody is being rude to us or disrespectful, we want to throw it right back at their face. We want to ratchet it up because now we got to win. So, oh, you think I'm stupid? How about let me talk about how you're stupid. I mean, so we want to throw it back at the other person. All that does is ratchet it up.
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And then again, it becomes to who's going to apologize first. That kind of is where the game starts to lead. I was curious what you have on the book now.
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Yeah, that's probably my favorite.
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Yeah, it was also probably the most popular part of the book because it outlines a specific manual on how to handle these kinds of people. And I've developed it from these people specifically that I've had in depositions and cross-examinations in the courtroom, that very combative people that you find ways to
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You think that the power is in having a direct response back at them that's going to uppercut them. Smart people, people like you, Stephen, people like all your listeners, we have this desire that when somebody says something ugly, we want to send the zinger. We want to craft something so poetic that it's not going to hit them until the two days. They go, oh my gosh, she totally got me.
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And that's just not going to happen. But the true power is this kind of be like water mentality. It's instead of direct with them, you're just avoiding it. You're pushing it out of the way to where you're going. What you're saying is not threatening to me. And you do that in several different ways. This would be how I'd say how to handle people that are belittling you or giving you disrespect.
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One, you're going to add silence. Five to seven seconds of nothing. Two, you're going to ask them to say it again. Let's say it's insults. Insults are very direct. You're going to ask them to repeat it. And three, you're going to just let that sit. It's whatever they say. So for example, let's put it in terms of somebody who, let's give it an example.
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I think you could almost get to wherever you wanted to go if you were a 10 out of 10 communicator. How you get hired for jobs, let's say in your career, comes down almost exclusively to how you communicated right there in that interview. You know people who have a wonderful resume, right? but they have no ability to communicate that.
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And I can change two words and change your life just by what you decide to say next because what you say truly has the power to change everything. For example, I teach that you never want to win an argument. When you look to win an argument, you will often lose the relationship. That's your prize, congrats. So instead of seeing arguments as something to win, see them as something to unravel.
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This would be somebody who's giving you just a straight insult. Insults are different from disrespect or something being rude. Insults are very direct. Somebody saying, like, you're ugly, right? If I were to say, you're ugly, how would you respond? And you're not, by the way, but let's just say it.
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I'd laugh, but if it was like, it depends on the context, doesn't it? Yeah, I was like, oh, that's the shirt you went with? I guess, all right, okay. Whenever somebody is insulting you, we have this ability to get really mad and stew on it and get angry. But best way to do it is, let's say if you told me, you know, I really think you're an idiot, Jefferson.
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Give it a little bit of silence, and I would repeat, I'm an idiot, Jefferson. Now, it's going to put a spotlight right back on you. For you to confirm it, double down on it, or you're going to apologize. A lot of times in arguments, people take it back. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I got too in front of it. But if they double down on it, all you need to do is just thank them. Thank you.
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In other words, thank you for showing me who you are. Thank you for making sure that I'm not going to be with you anymore and this is who you are in my life. Very different from, let's say, with somebody who is belittling you, patronizing you, being condescending to you. This is where it gets fun. This is one of my favorite ones. So let's give this a test.
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Oh, Stephen, I see that you lost some weight. That's great, man. Good for you. How would you typically want to respond to that? Thank you. Yeah. Now, if I had said something that was a little bit more ugly, if it was like, oh, you finally lost some weight, I was wondering where you would. Yeah, that's good on you. Would you still say thank you again? No. Yeah, what would you say? That's rude.
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Yeah, exactly. You'd be like, oh, okay, that's a little offensive. So here's what I would want you to do. Add silence. We're going to have five to seven seconds of silence. And what that does is allow them, their words to fall. So it's going to, one, tell you that their words aren't threatening. You're adding that space in there for two reasons.
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One, to calm you down because you're going to be using that breath we talked about. Second of all, it allows them to hear their words back because it's like they walk their words out onto a plank and now they're all alone. So if you had said something ugly to me and you said something like, oh, well, Jefferson, great to be here. I guess we'll include you. I guess you just came.
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And without the ability to say anything, and say it at least effectively, then they're not going to get what they want. Or you have people who have been in those relationships where they've continually been stepped on, and they're wonderful people inside.
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It's something that made me feel like I wasn't wanted. And if I just let that hang for a little bit and then I ask a question of intent, these are what I call questions of intent, where it says, did you say that to upset me? Did you say that to hurt me? Or did you mean? If you begin your phrase with, did you mean? Did you mean for that to offend me? Did you mean for that to be rude?
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I do this a lot in email correspondence or texts. When somebody sends something to you and you feel like all of a sudden it's rude, but really if you just text, did you mean for that to sound short? It cures up almost instantly because it's not exactly – a lot of the time people don't mean it that way.
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But they're going to say something to you that is going to respond in—most likely they're going to say no. They're not going to know how to handle that. They're not going to do with that. If you can respond with, imagine being the person who would say that, or how did you want me to feel? Or ask them, how did you feel when you said that? How does it make you feel when you say that?
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You're going to say something ugly to me and I give it a big pause and I would respond, how does it make you feel when you say that to me? Or I'm surprised you said that out loud. Can you just tell them how it felt? Can you just say that was really hurtful? Yeah, you can, but that's giving them what they want. You're giving them the dopamine. That's what they wanted.
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They said that so that it would hurt. They're saying that because in their mind they wanted you to have that sense of pain. They wanted to grab that from you. They wanted that sense of control. So when you say, oh, that hurt. often that's exactly what they wanted in that moment. Now, it's going to take them some time to realize, oh, I was really a jerk about that.
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But in that moment, what they're wanting is that hit of dopamine from you. They're wanting that sense of control. So when you ask them a question, so if I were to say, that was rude, you're giving them what they want. That's a direct statement. But if I ask, did you say that to be rude? Did you mean for that to sound rude? Now they have to admit. That's very different.
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And if they were only with the right person, or if they could express how they wanted and what they needed at that time, their whole world would really change.
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Now they have to admit what their intent was with that. Now they have to say yes or no. Most of the time what they do is they kind of fumble over their words, and they go, I mean, what I meant to say was, or no, no, no, I'm sorry. What I meant was they don't want to hurt now. They're going to hurt their reputation. Now they put themselves way too far out on a ledge, and that's much harder. Yeah.
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Yeah, so when somebody says something to be ugly, what they're wanting is your emotion. They're saying, I'm unhappy. I'm only going to be satisfied if I can make you a little bit unhappy too. That's where I'm going to feel justified in this. I'm only going to feel justified when I've caused you pain. And when that happens...
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Your best defense against that is to be like a wet blanket, like be a soggy piece of bread that they can't do anything with. They can't move that. They can't control that. And what you're telling them in that moment is it's not going to be that fun for you. And that's the best way to handle a bully.
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A bully does something and you ask them, did you say that to hurt me or does it feel good for you to say that? Or how did you want me to respond when you said that? Let's say I came in and I go, oh, I guess we're, you know, I guess this is okay. Yeah, I guess we can talk in here. That's fine. Right? I mean, that's kind of condescending. Yeah, wouldn't you say? And
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If you had asked me in that moment, did you mean for that to sound rude? I'd be like, oh, no, goodness. Either I'm calling it out or you'd say, that's an odd thing to say out loud.
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I still think you can say it. I mean, it depends how you're going to put it. Yeah, it just depends.
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Yeah, context certainly matters on some level, but if it is a position of just, I think if there's such a huge power dynamic, something like that, if you're an intern and you're like, this guy's just having a bad day, I don't think I need, this is not the time for me to choose to try and have a way of making him feel bad. Or if it's like, okay, I'll accept that or I can do better with that.
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There's ways that you can try and diffuse the rudeness. Another that I really like to use, this would not be in that context, but that's below my standard for a response. Those are really bad arguments. I've had it where really, really bad arguments where you've used, that's below my standard for response, and they really don't know what to say after that.
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A lot of the times when I'm in depositions and somebody has a snarky comment towards me, I'll ask them, how did you want me to respond to that? They don't know. They don't really have an answer. They kind of just go, I mean, what I meant was, and they fix it.
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But the signal you're sending and the whole point of it all is to show them that the next time you choose to do this, it's not going to be fun. This is not what you're getting. That's the whole point of getting them to repeat a lot of the times. If I say, you know, I didn't catch that. Can you say that again? They can't bear to say that again.
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Yeah. So one time I had a case between two sisters. And it was about as fun as it sounds. Two older sisters fighting over a company. Their dad had passed away. I had one sister, another attorney, friend of mine had another sister. And my client was, let's say, very level-headed. She wanted to preserve the legacy of the family and the company. The other had very different life choices, let's say.
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and the other one wanted to sell the company. Well, they eventually came to almost an agreement on how they were going to
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Divvy up as by by the sister out We're at mediation and I knew that we knew that this other sister was there's no telling what she's gonna She's gonna say out of her mouth and I had already prepared my client for if she insults if she says anything ugly You're gonna ask her to say that again All right. So sure enough we get at the mediation table. We have a opening discussion and the
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sister, let's say the more fiery sister, goes on this tirade and says how everything's against her. She hates everything. And then she looks at her sister and says, and I've never loved you. You're dead to me anyway. Now that's Sister to sister, that's like terrible. It was super sad to watch. My client goes, I need you to say that again to me. And the other sister couldn't do it.
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She didn't say that again. Because it puts them out on a ledge where they can't really, they're not going to get the effect. It's not nearly as effective when you say it the second time.
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Yeah. Now they have to think, does this make sense for me to say again? Yeah. Because the first effect isn't there. It's not as powerful the first time when somebody gives you an insult and you say, you know, I didn't catch all that. I need you to say that again for me. Can you repeat that? Most of the time they won't. Because they know now I look bad.
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Because all you did with that question is put the spotlight right back on them. And they can't take that. So they don't know what to do with it.
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Yeah. Some people, yeah, let's put it in. Well, one, it's because you love the person, right? And she loves you. And so that's a little bit different. When you're dealing with people that are...
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everyday rude at the workplace, at the office, or maybe you are in a relationship with somebody who's a narcissist or somebody who is toxic or you have that bad relationship, I think it's perfectly okay to use these kind of sentences that are going to put somebody back.
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I mean, like even, let's say in my own relationship, okay, I certainly use, we both use, wife and I, the, did you mean for that to sound short? I've also said something and said something I didn't mean, and she's come back using my own things. No, that's not okay. She's using your own stuff against you. Oh, my gosh, yeah. And she'll say, you know, did you say that to upset me?
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And you're like – but at the same time, understand that when you say those kind of things – Some sense of it is giving grace to the other person, of not accepting that what they meant to say or what they said was what they meant to say. Because maybe I'm giving you the chance here to clarify. If I were to say, do you mean for that to sound rude?
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And you're like, oh, goodness, no, that's not what I meant. I'm giving you the grace of a second chance rather than just deciding to take it personal. We do that a lot on text message. Somebody sends you a text and all of a sudden you're feeling like, oh my gosh, this is the rudest thing ever. And then you find out they didn't give it with that kind of inflection or tone at all.
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us included, we have a work life and then we have a home life. And sometimes it's really easy to switch those up. Is never allow myself to be put in a conversation when I'm not ready. Especially important conversations. Like you don't want to wait until you have 10% of your battery left for 100% of a conversation.
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It's just not going to go well when you wait till you finally put the kids to bed and you're both drained and exhausted. Or You've had a really hard, stressful day, and you're mad. And that's the time when it's right before bed that you're going to decide to have the most important conversation between you two. It's never going to go well because you're aggravated. You're agitated.
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You're probably hungry. And so you don't set yourself up for failure. And that would be don't have a conversation when you're not ready. Ways to, and this goes same for your triggers, is part of that self-awareness is saying that out loud. Meaning, I'm going to begin my sentence with, I can tell. I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation.
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or you say something that's triggering to me, I can tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell that's upsetting me. When you say it out loud, when you claim it, you control it. Rather than me starting to act defensively and being defensive and saying defensive things, I say I can tell I'm getting defensive. Now I've said it out loud of that feeling. I'm not becoming the feeling. I've said it.
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And so there's a big, big difference in how – when you're in those difficult conversations, when you want to prepare yourself, you find ways to, one, have self-awareness of, I can tell when I'm ready and when I'm not ready. Second of all is if you know your triggers and you know what's going to
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upset you you try and like curb that as best you can when you're when you're not in the fight or flight you're not going to put yourself in the bad position so that that would be the biggest takeaway is don't you put don't put yourself in position to fail and i've also heard you say that when um you're being disrespected i mean this was the first of the three points you said a second ago is to create that silence again why is why does that matter and what do you mean by that
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You have a huge head start in this space. If you're somebody who you may know more than anybody else in that class, but if you don't have the ability to take up the room, if you don't have the ability to capture somebody's attention and hold it and communicate what you need, nobody will listen. And it is an unfair advantage.
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Yeah, so pauses, though they are the absence of words, they're not the absence of communication, meaning there's a difference in pauses between Somebody saying, I love you, and a really long pause before somebody says, I love you too. Or somebody, your girlfriend asks, where were you last night? And you take one second to respond instead of seven seconds to respond.
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They each say different things. So pauses are wonderful at getting the other person and yourself to fill in blanks. And when you're dealing with people who are, let's say, toxic or ugly or just not being nice, they will fill in that silence for you. And it does two things.
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It allows you, with the breath and the pause, to make sure you keep the analytical side, pushing the emotion down, you're not getting flooded. Next, it's also doing the same thing for them. When I add silence, I'm making you almost repeat your words back in your head. And often you've been in those arguments where somebody already apologizes for what they said without you having to say anything.
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You've seen it too on a text. Somebody says something ugly in a text and you don't respond for a few hours. Most often they will reply back, at least in my world, they'll say, like, I shouldn't have said that, or they'll try and reframe it or they'll edit the text. Now you have the benefit of hindsight when, oh, that didn't sound good, or they'll twist their word again to fix it.
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So like, for example, I see this a lot with liars, people who lie on the stand. And in litigation, you always have people lie, even in deposition. It's just part of it. You don't really get surprised by it. But silence is the number one killer of liars because they have conversations in their head for you. So if you were going to tell me a lie, for example,
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And instead of me going, that's not true. That's not true. And then you're going to, it's like you'd like that. Okay, good. They're engaged. Now I can start to manipulate the narrative and you'll tell a lie and then it forces me to try and fix it. No, no, no, that's not true. Remember you did this and you did this and you're trying to get around. And that's exactly what the liar is wanting.
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The more engaged, the more conversation, the more believable it feels to you. So then you start to doubt yourself like, oh, maybe they did. And silence just destroys them. So if you were to tell me a lie and I waited five to seven seconds and I repeated the question to you, I repeated your answer.
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Let's say I know that you were at the store last night and you're trying to lie to me and say, I was home last night. And let's say I think you weren't up to no good at the store. And you go, Jefferson, I was at the store last night.
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I'm going to come back to this conversation in a bit. Okay. Right? So all of a sudden, the liar's like, oh, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Like, oh, now you're thinking about it. Now you're thinking about it. You know I was at the strip club.
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It's like, I know you weren't where you say. So if you can say, you add in time, like, I'll come back to this conversation. Or if I were to say something feels off. They don't like that. Liars don't like that at all because they want you engaged. They want more conversation. So when you slow it down and you go, it's not even saying, I don't believe you. Don't say that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That's getting them, that's more engaged in conversation. But when you slow it down and get quieter of, I'm thinking. I'm just thinking. Liars will start to have the conversation in their head with you. They'll start to say things like, I mean, what do you, I mean, what do you, let's put myself in your position.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If you said you're at the store and I didn't really believe you, you'd be like, I mean, where do you think I was? I mean, why would I be there? Like they start to try and get into your head so that they can fix it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'll try to twist the narrative to place the pieces in a way of they're not going to fill in every piece of the puzzle, the jigsaw puzzle, but just enough that hopefully you get the rest of the picture. But silence, pauses, that's where your real power is because they can't do anything with it and it shows that you're the one in control and they're the ones that are not.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
The outcomes are you're going to start to be negative on yourself. You're going to start to talk to yourself in very negative ways. And really, it's a hopeless feeling. You're going to run into relationships where you're running into the same problem. You're going to go into jobs where you start to run into the same problem. It's almost cyclical.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You're wanting more. Give me a conversation. We need conversation. I need it now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
No? Oh, no, and they get in their head about it. But it's that same concept we talked about of people who tell the truth – they have all the patience in the world. If you really were at the store and I was like, I need to think about this for a minute, you'd be like, okay. It wouldn't bother you because those that have told the truth, they have nothing to hide.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
If you need to think on it, something feels off, okay, well, I'm here to talk about it, but that's where I was.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, it's a relief. It's a confidence of going, I know exactly where I am. It's that inner confidence we talked about at the very beginning. But the people who don't tell the truth... I mean, if I had a dollar for every time I've seen it or I've asked somebody the question back, they said – usually it's texting while they drive. I never text. I never text when I drive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Let's say I asked somebody – you asked me the question, you know – Here, we'll run it through. So ask me the question, were you texting while you were driving that day? Were you texting while you were driving that day? No, I never text. Never text when I drive. Now notice I said a big word. I said never. Never is an extreme. Extremes are a dead giveaway that they're usually not telling the truth.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Everybody texts when they drive at some point in time, even in your car. Never and always or never. It's always or never true. So that's a big one. Second of all, I answered really quickly. I didn't breathe and really think about it and try and actually show you that I was trying to remember in time, give you a really immediate response.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Um, what you're going to do, we're going to replay it again. I'm going to say same exact thing. And I'm going to ask you to give me about five seconds of time. And then I want you to repeat what I said slower. Cool. So ask me if I was, if I was texting while I was driving that day. Were you texting while you were driving that day? No, no, never. I never text when I drive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You never text when you drive. Even that, I didn't even like that. So what they'll do most often is they'll even go, well, I mean, sometimes I do. Because now you just hinge on that word never. So now they know, oh, that's a risk word. And they'll kind of come out of it and go, I mean, sometimes I do. I mean, maybe, but hardly ever, hardly ever.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When that happens, what you typically want to do is give them an out. Now they've... They've put themselves into a corner and now they're looking for an out. A way to do that is go, if you were texting, it's okay.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
where you're not being able to say what you need to say. That makes a huge difference when you say, look, I'm not going to allow myself to be treated this way anymore.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, I have 12 jurors that are watching every bit of me as soon as I come into the courtroom. I mean, oh, yeah, you have the judge, you have the bailiff, you have a court reporter, you have people in the back, and you have two benches, you have attorneys, probably lots of attorneys, they're paralegals, you have your clients, and 12 jurors who all they do is watch you like a hawk.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So the good attorneys... are pretty emotionless when they hear, are almost near emotionless when they hear bad information.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When you don't even know how to voice your own boundaries or enforce those boundaries or things of how you want and where you want to go in your life, what you're going to find is you're just going to be unhappier more often and more unsatisfied. And that's a really hopeless feeling.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly. A client says, a witness says something that hurts their case and they just keep on writing or they just kind of sit back and reading. The really bad attorneys go. Start flapping. Exactly. Because all it is, you're telling the jurors, the jurors go, oh, they said something that hurts their case. Same thing with objecting. Bad attorneys object a lot.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Objection, Your Honor, that's already been ruled on. There's all kinds of lots of objections in the world of evidence. But if a juror says, they're watching, oh, they're hiding something from me. They don't want me to learn this information. Objection, Your Honor, that's irrelevant. Objection, Your Honor, that's hearsay. Oh, there's something that's happened that they don't want me to hear.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Why would they do that unless it hurt their case? But the good attorneys object maybe one or two times, and they do it in a way that encourages the discussion a little bit more of almost explaining it. So, yeah, you always have to watch your body language and how something is affecting you or not. Like if you have a...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Sometimes you'll see attorneys go up to the bench and have a quiet little meeting with the judge. And the attorney who looks defeated because they feel like they lost, all the jurors think is, oh, they must have not gotten what they wanted. Oh, something's wrong. It gets in their head. Same thing. I mean, jurors are, I mean, they're just people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But we have a sixth sense about us that we can sense things about if someone is telling the truth or not. At the end of trials, most people don't know this, we get to talk to the jurors. You get to ask them questions if they want. But you can, after the trial's done, I can go up, if you're a juror, I can go up and ask you, how'd you think of the trial? What was your favorite piece of evidence?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
What, you know, what really made the decision for you? And you're amazed at what you thought was a huge piece of evidence they didn't even care about. It was like this one little thing. You're like, you thought about that? I had it once where the other attorney during, they call it voir dire. In the west side of the world, we call it a voir dire in the south.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It means you're asking questions of the jurors. And one attorney, it was just a really hot room, but we learned that afterwards she didn't really like that attorney at the end of the jury because while he was talking, he was sweating a whole lot, and it made him look really nervous. And so she didn't think that he was really believed in his case. So you find like these little bitty things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You're like, how does that happen? But it's seriously that critical. Someone thinks that a witness on the stand is not really being, not really crying. They're trying to put on an act. Oh, the jury will hang them. The jury will just absolutely destroy their case if they think somebody is putting on a show.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, were you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, I mean, a lot of, I wouldn't even say famous ones because I don't, even the famous ones to me aren't that great. It's just because of the high profile of the clients involved that made it famous. But if you take the Johnny Depp case, most other attorneys will watch that and go, that wasn't that great.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It was just juicy because it was drama, and some of the witnesses were hilarious, and it was just kind of funny. But people got to see what real trial is like. But there's some things of like an attorney objecting to hearsay to his own question, like things that you go, us attorneys go, what are you doing?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
No.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So I wouldn't even say the famous trials, but ones, let's say, that I think of all the time that I grew up
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
watching is it here it was a case involving a an old janitor who had gotten in an accident and they were trying to prove that he didn't remember the events and the other side was trying to prove they they were right they're trying to prove that the other guy was wrong and when the other attorney came up gave the closing argument He did such a good job of ramping up the dynamics of his voice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, they come to me and they watch my videos not to fix or learn from what happened in the last conversation. They're coming to me because they want to know how to handle the next conversation. And what I do is I give them these snippets, the same way I would in an opening argument or a closing argument. I go with three main points.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So you hear that a lot with preachers and pastors. Sometimes their highs are really high and their lows are really low. And so he did this wonderful thing of the way he would smile at the jury and almost show them that, hey, you can believe them if you'd like, but I'm going to tell you the truth.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
and he did this such a way that he could convince someone the way he was talking that you just go, I just got to listen to this guy. I want to hear all that he had to say. He would do it, and he would make his words pause and hang on every single word. I don't remember. I was a kid.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But the reason I share it is because it was so fundamental to me at the time going, wow, okay, this is how you tell a story. This is how you persuade. Because I'm getting to watch not just the attorney. I'm getting to watch the jurors. I'm getting to watch what they're appreciating and what matters to them. And that was really pivotal for me to see those kind of dynamics at play.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly. It's the ability to use your voice. Vanessa and Vin do wonderful jobs at this. How do you play the instrument of your voice? What I encourage... And what I like to teach is how do you persuade even with vulnerability? So let's say, for example, in this moment, you're an attorney and I'm an attorney. All right, we're against each other. We each have a client.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And we're friends in real life, but this is business. And, you know, I got to represent my client. And Here we go. We have a juror in front of us, a jury in front of us. And let's say that I go up and I say, ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you what you're going to find in this case is the other side is just totally wrong. Everything that my client's done has been 100% correct.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They followed the law. They followed the rules. They followed every single policy. And what they're demanding from us is just absolutely insane. You're going to find at the end of this case, with all the evidence, I'm going to ask you to file for my client. All right? That's what I just said. Now, you go up there. Same jury.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
and you go, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to tell you right now, my clients could have done better. They made a few mistakes. There are going to be things that you're going to see that they follow every rule the best that they can, and people are people. And why we're here is because what they're asking of you is simply unreasonable, and it's just not fair.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And we're only going to ask you to find what's fair. So at the end of this case, we're going to ask that you find the favor of my clients. Now, Anybody who's listening right now, who do you think that they are naturally going to be more drawn towards? The case for imperfection, vulnerability, and fairness. You got it. They're going to hear me, my case of 100% perfectness, and go, that's not real.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
That's not real. We know that experience. Everybody has vulnerabilities. Everybody could have done something better. And so they're going to naturally gravitate and go, you, your case, you're the truth tellers. And once you establish yourself as the truth teller in the conversation, it is a hard position to leave from.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Once you establish, like especially judges, once a judge knows that you give him the case law, even when it's against you, he will believe you for the rest of all time for all your cases. Because they know that you follow the law, you tell the truth. So it's much easier when you think.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I try to condense a whole lot of information into something that has very little. So you take what would be 40 pages and you turn it into two sentences and you turn that into one sentence. You turn to seven words. And what I do is I give them the sense of, hey, I can do that. I can do that. All I have to do is switch this word.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, and that's perfectly said. And even when, let's say I was giving a closing argument, and let's say I was defending a company, and it was always better if I said, now, I believe, after hearing the evidence, you should give their client this. I agree with that. They deserve this. But it shouldn't be this number. You see how all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, well, I can agree with that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Way different if I said they don't deserve a penny. Very, very different. Now, in everyday conversation, it's that same way. If I stand by, I did nothing wrong. I couldn't have said it any differently. Everything I said was perfect. I'm right is the principle of it. Whenever you always have, there's no way I could have said that differently. You're giving the same exact vibes.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But if I came to you and began that conversation with, I could have said that better. You know what happens? The other person goes, yeah, I could have said that better too. It's really disalming. It's so better. I could have done better. Like that is a magic phrase. I've seen so many relationships get through conflict by using the phrase, I could have done better.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
By leading with that right there, ultimate vulnerability, and the other person goes, yeah, I could have done better too. Rarely do they say, yeah, you could have. They don't. They really don't. They almost always take that down because it's much more It just brings down their defensiveness.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, I can see the impact of just flipping one little word or reversing the way I'm giving that sentence. And it creates a very different outcome every time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Oh, yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. The secret to dealing with someone you don't like, you treat them like they do. You treat them like they do like you and that you do like them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Exactly. Well, you've done harder things in life. Yeah, your body does. But let's put some parameters around it. One, you want to limit that amount of contact. If you're around them the whole day, a whole lot harder. If you can be in front of them for two, three minutes, easy. Second of all is be mindful of who's around you because people are watching.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And it's that, I forget how the phrase goes, but if you argue with a fool, onlookers don't know the difference. Yeah. Yeah, so if you all of a sudden act rude to someone and they deserved it because of what they did two weeks ago, somebody in the room, they're not going to blame that other person. They're going to put it on you. So don't give someone a reason to affect your integrity.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So when you just act like they do, treat them like they like you, your life will go better because it'll make you feel better. One, it'll make you feel like the better person. Two, let's say that other person is ambivalent on you. If you show that you don't like them, all you're doing is just confirming to them, this person hates me, and you know what? I don't like them either.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It's just reinforcing that feeling. Now they're sure to not like you. But when you don't give them an enemy, there's nothing they can do. That's what happens in a lot of conversations, arguments. People are looking for an enemy. They're wanting someone to justify that behavior. And when you don't give it to them, it's very frustrating.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I mean, in trial litigation, one of the most effective things you can do is just kill someone with kindness. Whenever you're not ugly or rude, you don't give them somebody to be the villain because that's what they want. That's how they want to justify their bad behavior of how they're treating you.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And when you just act like you do like them, you limit the amount of time or you're very objective and very neutral of like, hey, I'm here to talk with you about this and then I'll be on my way. Like as long as you can be very direct and you're not giving those snide comments. If somebody asks what time it is and you go, I mean, you would know if you had a watch. Like that's what you want to do.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And just instead of giving them the time, go about your day. Don't give somebody an excuse to lower your integrity.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So often we think of first impressions versus the next conversation. So you and I meet the first time or you meet your date or somebody you first job interview. And everything's great. Everybody has their best face on. Everything's wonderful. But it's typically that next conversation where something's different.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
One would be don't ask questions that elicit a one-word response. These are what they call closed-ended questions. You want these for cross-examination. Because on cross-examination, I just want yes or no questions. Did you go to the store? Yes. No. When I'm on direct examination, I want to open you up to discussion. I want you to talk more.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So what you do is you take advantage of asking questions that open you up. Ask open-ended questions. These are questions that begin with how or what or when or where. Instead of, like, did you go to the store? The same effect would be, did you have a good weekend? I'm only limiting you to a yes or a no.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
You want to have a conversational goal really for any conversation that you're going to have. Now, that's different if you're in your hoodie and sweatpants with your friend watching a movie. You don't have to have a conversational goal.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm saying if you're a one-on-one with somebody at work, it's not a bad idea if you go into their office, you have a goal for where is the conversation going to end because otherwise it spins anxiety in the other person. Like if somebody texts you and says, we need to talk, period, you're like, I automatically think it's the worst. It's like, oh, something's terrible. We're breaking up.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Something's terrible. Something's on fire. It's the worst because it's that anxiety, that trigger of the unknown. So instead, you always want to have a conversational goal. Like the frame we talked about, you're telling them how you want the conversation to end. Same kind of thing with small talk.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
But when it's much easier when you set a goal that's very low, like instead of saying, I want them to be so impressed with me, they don't know what to do. What's more impressive is when you're curious about the other person. I want to make sure that I ask at least three questions of this person and see what they have to say. That's a great goal.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
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I want to make sure that my goal is understanding where they're coming from just a little bit more. So with small talk, people love to tell them how they got there. People love to talk about themselves. Everybody knows that. One question to ask is how they got to the present moment. For example, how did you learn that? Where did you come across this? How did you get in where you are today?
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And people are like, oh, well, let me kind of talk about myself for a minute. And people love it because they get to tell a story. Very different if I said, hey, what'd you do this weekend? It was good. Stay at home. There's no story element to that. There's nothing you can do with that. But if you get them to talk about a story of what led them to their present moment, much better.
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Another tip is you get to talk to them about things that are happening in the future rather than looking at the past. The past is really not... that great for people because they feel like it's boring. They don't feel like the past of something is that remarkable. But they typically find things that they will look forward to in the conversation. What are you looking forward to doing this weekend?
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You get to learn if the first impression is the lasting impression, if somebody was really who you thought that they were. You put it in terms of an everyday argument, let's say with a spouse. Mm-hmm. Or friend, you have friction, that friction ignites and then you start to both yell at each other and then you throw insults at each other and everything gets louder and louder and louder.
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What are you excited about? What's coming up for you? They'll find things that go kind of like, oh, well, I'm kind of excited about this Y and Z. But if you ask about what's happened in the past, they kind of have this like, ah, you know, I just, it's in the past.
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Oh, that's hard. And there's a lot, I mean, it is very cliche, but I'm a huge Abraham Lincoln nerd. Why? Because of the way he was able to get people in his circle in the most unaggressive, unassuming way. So he, when he ran as a nominee for the Republican Party convention, he was a no-name. I mean, he was pretty much a no-name. He had run for Congress a few times, but he was not the
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And if you can just ask them the question, what am I missing? I promise you, that is the most effective tool that you can use for a difficult conversation.
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clear winner. All the other people that were involved were the main frontrunners, the main frontrunners, the people that were big out, William Seward, you had McClellan, you had Stanton, all these guys that deserved the spot to be the Republican Party nominee at that time. And lo and behold, a lot of different reasons, Lincoln won.
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Now, what he did was as soon as he won nomination for president, he turned around and invited those men into his cabinet. Now, that is like, that would be like President Trump turning around and inviting everybody who ran against him, who criticized him for the last election cycle and saying, be on my cabinet.
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That's like any president saying, oh, all you opponents who said why I shouldn't be me and why I should lose, come be part of my cabinet. And it went from them hating him at the beginning of saying he's so unqualified, trying to hurt him, hurt his reputation, to like sobbing at his funeral. Like they couldn't even imagine what the world was going to be like without him.
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And he did it so well in how he brought people in. Doris, I think it's Kyme. Goodwin has a wonderful book called Team of Rivals. I love it. And it just goes into all the details of each of these personalities and how he dealt with them, how somebody even went out to the newspaper and was trying, within his own cabinet, trying to cause problems. He didn't even address it with him.
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Instead, he brought him in even closer, made him feel important, give him more jobs. like ways of just handling the dynamics, this very emotional intelligence. And so he was wonderful at telling stories. I mean, that was his main thing. People just love to listen to the guy.
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And so I just, I think that is such a beautiful portrayal of how to handle life that some of your enemies, all you need to do is just bring them a little bit closer and understand them a little bit more. You're going to find you have a much better life.
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of these wonderful little proverbs about how it's the power of the tongue. I mean, it is to control who you are, you control the power of the tongue. And so it is so fascinating how what we say really is tied to just our entire essence, who comes into a room. I mean, it's what you say is who you are. Like for the vast majority of your life, like what comes out of your mouth is...
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Eventually somebody crosses the line and says something they don't mean and it dies. You go, forget this, I'm out of here, gone, they leave. Then there's a next conversation, and that one sounds a lot different than the first one. It sounds a lot quieter, a lot slower. People say, what I meant to say was, or, yeah, I shouldn't have said that. My intent was, then they start to clarify.
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controls what they think of you, controls your reputation, controls where you're going to go. It's simply what you say next. You can't call yourself a kind person if you don't use kind words. It's really what you say when you go, I don't really like that person. What you really mean is they say things that I don't like.
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And so it's just the power of what we say that truly can change everything about your life. It's a big deal. Yeah, it is. It's a big calling. It's a really big calling. And I think that those who invest in their words, invest in using better words, will have a better life. They'll find that they'll have more peace. They'll have more control. They'll have more confidence.
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And it's not something they can buy on Amazon. It's not something that they can just get. It is simply by what they choose to come out of their mouth.
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Yeah, so let's say for people who listen to this podcast, read my book, there are going to be themes that naturally come out to them that speak to them more than others or versus another person. So it's not like it's linear, like all of a sudden you need to just do this one, two step and then you're done.
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There are going to be certain elements of our conversation that are going to appeal to somebody. What they need to do is grab onto that and study that, and they're going to find ways to focus and get a discipline on that. So let's just focus on one rule that they want to improve. Don't try and prove your entire everything. Just try and prove one thing.
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So if you have a habit of, let's say, adding adverbs to every sentence, essentially, basically, literally, just, so, very, and you have all this fluff in your emails, And you don't want to do that. Well, you're going to catch yourself to do that. I have an AI where that's what I do. So somebody can put in a sentence and say, nope, remove all this stuff.
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And so little bitty things like that where they can train themselves to eliminate the fluff. Same thing with maybe they find themselves over apologizing. Just focus on that and do one little bit at a time. And I promise you, just even the next sentence that they choose will be better than what they could have put out.
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Then they start to apologize. Then they refrain. Oh, I can see how you take it that way. No, no, no. What I meant was, What they care about in the next conversation is always much different than what they focused on in the first conversation. So the key is, how do you take that next conversation and get it there to be the first one?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is all about how to say no, especially let's put it in a context of somebody invited you to anything. Let's say somebody invited you to grab a cup of coffee. Yeah. All right. Let's put it in terms of, that's what this graph is. So the graph says when you have the chance to say no or yes to something and you decide not to say no, instead you go, oh, maybe.
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And then it just lives in your head for the next week until they ask again. You're like, ah, I just put it off. But if you say no when you need to say no, then it doesn't live in your head rent-free. So let's put it in terms of, let's say you and I work at the same place. Yeah. And I ask you for, hey, Steven, let's go grab a cup of coffee at this new place that I saw. And you don't.
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You're like, look. You're thinking in your head. You're like, look, Jefferson, you're nice, you know, but we're not friend friends. We're just work guys. You know, I like you at work, but you're not that cool. Like, I don't want to go have coffee with you. That's what you're thinking in your head. And besides, you're so busy, you've got too many things to do. And you need to say no.
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And instead you go, oh, man, you know, maybe, maybe. It just depends. I'll let you know. I'm like, oh, okay. And then I'm waiting the whole day to hear from you. And now in your head you're like, how do I tell him I don't want to do this? How do I tell him? And now you're just thinking about it and you're just wasting your emotional energy. And instead of saying no when you needed to say no.
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Well, if that's real. But if it's not real. Yeah, well, that's a problem.
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Oh, because one, there's always a chance that they could find out. Two, it's just not genuine. It's not sincere. You owe it to yourself to be a truth teller.
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Yeah, exactly. Actually, no, no, I don't. No, thanks. Pass. Hard pass. So here's where the mistake happens, all right, is when it's that feeling of, I don't want to disappoint them. I don't want them to not like me. That's what we want. That's what really it is. I don't want them to not like me. I still want them to like me.
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The mistake happens when you go, oh, man, that sounds so great and wonderful. I'd love to, but I can't. I have a full day of meetings. And that's all you leave it at right there, okay? Problem with that, aside from it just being not true, whatever. To put it as, hey, man, I'd love to, but... The word but has a magic of erasing everything that happened before.
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If I were like, look, I love you, but, and I have to say something else. Oh, I think it was great. Yeah, I mean, I think being on your podcast was wonderful. But it just takes away, it feels less than what you said. So instead, we want to start with the gratitude. Oh, thank you so much. That sounds wonderful.
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i can't that's what we wanted is like a soft landing uh reverse it start with the no then end uh with the gratitude so it would be if somebody said hey can you come to dinner whatever on i know you're in austin i can't thank you so much for inviting me i i i'd love to meet you or see you the the next time around And if you can, add some kindness. I've heard that place is awesome.
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Hope it's a great time. Like, same thing if you need to tell me no to having coffee. I can't. Or I have bad news. I can't. Let me know how it goes. Like, I'm sure it's going to be great. I've heard wonderful things about it. Let me know how it is. It's much easier if you tell them that you can't up front.
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Have you ever had somebody tell you no to an invitation and they're like, in a text, they're going, oh my gosh, thank you so much. I've just been so busy and I've had to go feed my cat and it's just been so stressful lately. And I might be able to go. I'll let you know if I can. And if anything changes, I'll definitely let you know. You're like, if you don't want to go, just tell me no.
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And it's that kind of feeling. We don't have the words though.
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Yeah. So what you want to do is, like we said, instead of beginning with, oh, I'd love to. That sounds terrific. But I've got so much to do, and I can't do this. They're like, oh, OK. Instead of that, just flip it and say, I can't make it this go around. Thank you so much for inviting me. I look forward to hopefully seeing you soon or the next time.
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So when you're in an argument with somebody, what happens automatically is your fight or flight starts to take over, even in a little argument, especially even in the small ones. If I disagree with your opinion, your fight or flight kicks in because your body is saying, hey, I'm being undermined. Your mind is telling you, hey, I didn't like that.
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Or if you can't go to wherever they're wanting to go, you can say, I got bad news. I'm not going to be able to make that happen. Thank you so much for thinking of me, or I appreciate you inviting me. I hope it's a wonderful time. And you don't even need to give them a reason. No reason. No, no, no.
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That's where you make a mistake, is when you give them a reason, you start to have to feel like you have to justify. Because you're very subjective. We're all subjective in our head of, ah, that's not a good enough excuse. I have to give something that is worthy enough of the excuse that I'm not going to be able to make it.
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Yeah, there it is. I think that's perfect. There's nothing wrong with saying because I'm in the Middle East. It's when it's more like that bar scenario. You don't have anywhere else to go. You don't want to.
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Uh-uh. No, no, no. Because there's nothing to apologize for. You haven't done anything wrong. Save your apologies for when you said something you should not have done. You've made an actual mistake. And I'm not terribly fucking sorry.
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You're very thankful. You're very thankful about it. You're not sorry at all. So instead of the so terribly sorry or unfortunately, it's I can't make it work. You see how that's – when I say I can't make it work, I'm signaling to you that I have other things going on and I cannot fit it in. It's not that you're not a priority. I just can't make it work.
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The secret to dealing with someone you don't like is to... And then could you explain to me this image here? So this is all about how to say no.
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And so anytime you get that out front and then follow it up with the gratitude, I appreciate you, thank you, so kind of you for thinking of me, and then add on a little bit, like just a sprig of kindness. I know it's going to be a wonderful time. Perfect. I mean, that's all you need right there. Instead of going, I need to respond to that email.
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And then you're like two weeks later, you're like, I got to respond to that email. And you just get yourself worked up.
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Yeah, so it looks like it's verbal fillers.
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What he's saying is different from what I'm saying. You know what? We're going to think of some other things. It's going to put that down. Immediately what I want to do is say something that is going to fight. In other words, I'm going to hurt you. I want to say something that's going to cut you. I want to say something that is hurtful. Or we run from it.
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Right. If you're on a stage, if you're giving a presentation, don't use them. Yeah, that's a real easy rule. In casual conversation, who cares? The only thing that makes this different is because it gets posted and people are going to pay attention to every single word that you say and they're going to want to put that up.
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everybody has some kind of verbal fillers if they don't they've been trained on it that's all that can almost be guaranteed they've had some kind of media training if they don't use any verbal fillers because verbal fillers are very common but if you want to be an impactful speaker at a presentation you don't want to have the um the ah the like um okay add okay right after the sentence like well i'll see different
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It's a habit for very new attorneys to begin to ask a question of a witness and say okay right afterwards. They'll ask, so do you see the red car? Just give an answer. Yes. Okay. And then they'll write it, and then they'll ask another question. But the record, so everything's transcribed by a court reporter, has okay, okay, okay throughout it. And so what a lot of...
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Senior partners will give the transcript to the junior partner and say, just review it, see what your verbal fillers are and all of that stuff. So it's a great way to train. But yeah, verbal fillers, you don't want to make a habit of them. They happen. There's nothing wrong with saying like or saying nothing on its face wrong with it. It just has a way of cluttering up your sentences.
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If I was going to say, yeah, so anyway, I mean, and you can totally tell me if I'm way off base here, but like so essentially I was thinking and it literally does not matter. Like you see how we kind of like dip in and out and we just like get to the point?
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What they say, what people choose to say has a ripple effect that will reach far more than they ever thought it possibly could. It'll affect people that they don't even know exist, how they talk to people. What you say today It affects how people think of you. It affects where you go in your career. It affects how your children will talk to their children.
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It affects how other people will talk to their kids without you even knowing it. I mean, an example of that is the playground, like we talked about. Everybody has a memory of somebody's words. It was probably very simple. The most simple words often are the most powerful. The small ones, they call eyeglasses, big, huge glasses. And I remember being called four eyes. I was crushed.
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You ever had somebody been on the phone and go, you know, I'm over this, and they hang up?
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I was crushed being called four eyes. If you called me that today, I'd be like, so? But at eight years old, something, oh, I have four eyes. Something is wrong with me. Remember, that being something that was very important. Words will last for a very, very long time. And the people that are in your life will say something to you, and you will remember it forever.
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People in high school, you think, oh, everybody forgets about high school. No, they don't. You go to law school, everybody forgets. No, they don't. They remember exactly what you said and who you were. And even if it's the person across the register or the person taking your order at the cafe, How you talk to them affects how they talk to their loved ones when they go home.
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Or they go, I'm out of here. You know what? Forget this. And they go and slam the door. That's their flight. They're leaving. I feel threatened in this current moment by this conflict, by this differing view, so I need to get out of it. When you decide to say it with control, you make sure that that doesn't happen. And it all begins with your breath. All right, that's the key.
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If you've made their day difficult, they're going to make sure that they reflect that in some sense, or it's going to put them in a bad mood. So what you say truly has the power to change everything. So it's the question and challenge of what will you choose to say with yours?
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Oh, all the day. I mean, I constantly, you want your kid to be the best of whatever. You want to try and raise a wonderful human. So you're very conscious of what you say to them because they soak it all up. I find that the best thing that anybody can do as a new parent is to be a safe space for their kids in communication.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
One of the most terrifying thoughts, anybody who's listening who is a parent, is that your kid is not going to come to you in their time of need. So they're going to be in high school and they're not going to come to you with the problems. They're going to go run and tell somebody else. They're going to go deal with it in other ways that are not constructive.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Because you have established a pattern of making them afraid to come to you and putting them down in a sense that they are afraid to come to you with their struggles. Arguments are a window into another person's struggle, and kids are no exception. And the way to think about that is to say things like, thank you for coming to me with this. I acknowledge you could have talked to someone else.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm glad you talked to me. When you can show them that you're inviting them into that conversation, they're going to be more receptive to coming to you again. I mean, that's the main takeaway is what you say to your kids, they will repeat. And how you say it to their kids, they're going to repeat. Like you most likely, you saw your parents argue a certain way.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And then I saw my parents argue a certain way, and that becomes our default of how we think other people should argue. Have you ever been in those relationships where somebody, the other person wants you to fight with them? Yeah. And they're like, I don't feel like you care unless we're yelling. I don't feel like you care unless it's almost to this very toxic, horrible level.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And only then do I feel like I want you to argue with me. I want to feel like you're in it. That's what they grew up with. That's all they know. So to them, that is the default. And so it's the choice of how do you want to show conflict to the generations that leave after you?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I hope people will find that their words truly have power, that it's within reach, that they will no longer have this sense of hopelessness of, I never know what to say, or I never feel like myself. I always feel like I people please. I always feel like I say less or I feel less. It's the sense of, I can teach you how to argue less and talk more by simply changing what you decide to say next.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And I believe that all the world needs is one better conversation at a time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So what I teach every one of my clients is let your breath be the first word that you say. So we'll run through it right now. That's cool. All right, so let's do an exaggerated one. And what this is called, and it takes advantage of, is a physiological sigh. So what we're going to do is two seconds in through the nose. One more at the top, and then go .
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Let's see. I'm 36. Go back in time to when I was 16. I would probably tell him, you're doing a good job. Just have a real heart to heart of, you don't have to always just keep chasing for what's next. Just be real happy in the present moment. I think that started at an early age of always wanting to Like anything, you want to be the best. You want to push yourself. You want to do that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And sometimes I, as being the oldest child and the old soul, I don't think I allowed myself to feel the freedom sometimes of childhood. I just grew up really quickly. Took a lot of independence and responsibility on myself at a really early age. I was 16. I was taking all of my kids, all of my siblings to school.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And while I was going, I'm going over spelling words with my youngest brother and dropping him off at first grade. So... And I loved it. I have wonderful parents. I just wanted that responsibility. And I think that flew into college of not enjoying things and saying no to things that could have been really awesome experiences because I felt like I just needed to always be a straight arrow.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
A little bit. I think I have because I see it in my kids. And my son's seven, my daughter's five. And I can already tell my son is just like me, which is cool and scary. And so I try, I find myself when I'm talking to him, it's like I'm talking to myself. And there's a part of it that's very healing. When I can tell him of, look, even if you, he just did coach pitch.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
I'm like, hey, look, if you strike out, I love you just the same. You're good. Don't worry about it. Like, hey, we'll keep practicing. Like just little bitty moments where I didn't allow for myself. I didn't, I just kept pushing and pushing. And I don't think I
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
ever stopped to to do that so seeing that with my son is very healing in that way where I feel like I I kind of I'm talking to myself just as much as I'm talking to him Jefferson Fisher if I want to hear more from you by the book where else can I find you Yeah, so you can find me on social media, Jefferson Fisher, Instagram, jeffersonfisher.com slash book for the book.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, you can just search Jefferson Fisher on social media and I'll be around.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, okay, how do you feel after you do that?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah, all right, cool. So what we're gonna do is get a shortcut to that exact result. This time, we're gonna do it, same thing, but don't make the noise. One more at the top. Through the mouth again. Now, instead of the mouth, only through the nose, ready? Now that was a, now we did that almost a little, that was very intentional.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Start with... Then end with... Really?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
So let's do it again, but give it a haircut as if like you don't even, you're not even gonna get me to notice. Ready? That right there. Now that is your go-to. Whenever somebody is telling you something that you disagree with, that is your go-to before you even say your first word. Because it is going to make sure that that fight or flight never kicks in.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It keeps that analytical side, that logical side in it the whole time. Instead of going, oh, but wait, they can't yell at me like that. No, no, that's a dumb idea. Can you believe that you say, instead of that, that's your fight or flight. You never even gave yourself a chance to breathe.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
When you breathe and use that, what I call a conversational breath, it allows you to go, huh, I wonder where this is coming from. I wonder why they said it like that. Now it allows you to kind of stay detached from that current moment because you're injecting your breath into it. When you allow yourself to breathe, then it's going to keep you much calmer.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
And so anytime I have a client that maybe is getting a question from an attorney that would be triggering to them or upsetting to them, it's always the training of use your breath while they're asking the question and start getting really curious as to why they're asking that. What's the point that they're trying to prove Don't look at the surface of the question. Look at the intent behind it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Where are they trying to take you? Whenever I can teach them that, it's a very powerful result.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
Yeah. Which is quite uncomfortable for a lot of people. You'd think, but the more they do it, the better it becomes. In fact, I like it because it tells you that I actually listened. So let's say, for example, just say, how was your day, Jefferson? How was your day, Jefferson? It was good. It was good. My day was great. It was a day. Ask me again. How was your day, Jefferson? It was good.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
It was a good day. I liked it. You see how one says, I didn't even think about what you asked me? The other says, no, I actually thought about the question. I considered it, and then I chose my answer. And so you can do that even when, especially for leaders, they go into a very busy work environment where there are problems right on the floor.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Speaking Coach: The One Word All Liars Use! Stop Saying This Word, It's Making You Sound Weak! The More You Do This, The More You Sound Like A Liar!
They have to address this right at that current moment. The bad leaders will get very hectic and rise to that same level of energy. The great leaders will capture the calm energy. They inject that breath and go, okay, what's next? Have you ever, my grandfather, for example, I can ask him one time, I was like, hey, do you know where your screwdriver is? And he goes, Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
How did he react to that? Both my parents did not really do social media at all at the time, and I didn't really do it either. Because at the time, Instagram was just take a picture of your latte and put an X-Pro filter on it, call it a day. And when they first saw it, they didn't really understand it. Because at first, I was just doing it for the law firm. He's like, oh, okay, well, you do that.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
But for a while, he just didn't.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
it's not that he didn't want to talk with me we have a very close relationship same with my mom wonderful wonderful wonderful people it was that it was just a sore topic for a while and when the law firm started doing well and things were starting to roll and i'll just never forget because you started your own i started my own law firm and all i had i went from having a corner office
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
uh two paralegals an assistant a whole team that just by myself at a coffee shop with my laptop next to somebody else who was in college you know and i just served coffee shops or borrowed friends back offices and when i got my own office and i was starting to do well and he called me And he said, well, I got a question for you. I said, what's that, Dad?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
He said, you still got room for the old man? And I said, what? He said, yeah, if you want. I mean, you can say no if you want, but I'd love to practice. Son, I don't know how long I'm going to practice, but for however long I got, I want to do it with you. And I mean, I just boohooed, of course. It makes me want to cry. I haven't met him yet. Yeah, you'd love him.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I just, yeah, I couldn't have been any better. He meant the world to me. And we get to talk every day. And we get to talk about cases. And it's just, it's great. It's wonderful. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And he's never been happier. I mean, he's just he's so happy to practice law. He's it's it's it's just awesome. It's it's. what you thought wasn't going to work out, when something turns around and shines even brighter, it just, you can't put that into words.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Probably number one would be warmth. And people that you just, you don't even have to talk to them. You can sit in a room and just feel it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And maybe it's their energy, maybe their vibe, maybe it's their spirit. Just whatever it is, the frequency that they're putting out into the world calms you. And I find that to be very, it makes you attracted to them because you like that warmth and that comfort that when you talk to them, you feel just a little bit calmer.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so people who communicate very well are not only good at being clear and direct and assertive, but they're also emotionally intelligent enough to know when to slow down. Because things are so busy and we ramp up, but they know that good communication happens in the smallest of words, the shortest of sentences.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, well, I think you'd agree, you never want to hide your light. And I mean, there's so many opportunities that we have to do that. And it's leaning into it. If people feel like, oh, I'm going to be weak if I'm perceived this way. If you go by how you listen to music, things that are very fast affect you, makes your mind race.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When somebody's talking really, really quickly, and then you can hardly understand what they're saying, and they're getting ramp up and ramp up. That kind of gets you and your anxiety up. But people who slow down and they show more control, it's not the opposite. They show more control, more confidence.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When you're adding distance to your communication, you are showing them that you are comfortable exactly where you are. And that also shines onto them to show that where you are is okay, too.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. The pausing is the most powerful tool you can use in communication because it gives you time to choose things. It gives you time to choose, is this worth my words? Is this worth my attention? It also gives you a chance to
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
calm your own emotions to regulate your emotions it gives you time to think and when you're able to pause in conversation it allows you to show control if you were to ask me jamie if you said jefferson how was your day and i immediately said good i mean my day was fine it was good it was good that tells you one thing if you ask me again jefferson how was your day and i said it was good it was good
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Very different connotation. What you're telling in the first one is, I didn't really listen to your question. The second pause is kind of clarifying of, I listened to you. When somebody even gives you one second, two seconds of a pause after a question, it tells you that they're thinking about it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And it's allowing you to show that you're actually acknowledging taking it in before you just spit out a response right away. Because we're such in a world of immediacy, of texting back right away, saying that, having that clap back as soon as you get it out. And where the real power in communication is, is slowing things down.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It's the pause, because it allows the other people, just like you said, when you're speaking to people and maybe they clap or they cheer, it's allowing them to contribute to the conversation.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Thank you. Very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing. And right now I'm just holding on.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, you got it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Right.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yes. When you're able to ask that question.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
You should do it. I'm doing it tonight. You should.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Well, what we fall into is instead of living in it, we're just pressing the buttons.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
You know, barista asks, how's your day? Oh, it's good. I'm fine. How are you? Oh, good, I'm fine. We're just pressing buttons. We're not really living in it. Let me tell you the one trick to making sure that it does work with your kids and with your husband. We want the trick. This is what I live by, and I teach this to every one of my clients, and it is this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Let your breath be the first word that you say. So where your first word would be of going, no, I'm good, I'm good, You put a breath in its place. And so when you have the mindset of a breath being the word, I mean, it's because you're saying something. Even in that pause, in that breath, in that silence, it might be the absence of words. It's not the absence of communication.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So if you ask me how my day was and I go... I conveyed something right there. That's a sigh. I'm sending the message to you. Without words, it was heavy. It was a load. It was a lot. And when you have that pause, it's the invitation to connect.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It really is. And the thing with communication of what it makes it so important on top of just the pause and the ability to take a moment and express how you really feel is that what you say. for the vast majority of your life, is who you are. That's how people will experience you. That's how people will experience Jamie. That's how people will experience Jefferson.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It's not by really what you do that they might see that act of kindness. It's what you say. When you say, I like that person, you just met them. You say, I like that person. They were nice. What you really mean is they said nice things. Somebody's rude and you don't like them. Yeah, that person's rude. Just means that what you heard is you didn't like. It's not a rude to you.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So for the vast majority, it is your words is what describes who you are to those people. That's what's going to describe and evaluate your legacy. That's the ripple effect.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Are you ready for the tea? Yes. Okay.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Are you ready for the tea? Yes. Okay, my wife, no, I'm kidding. She's a fantastic communicator. Law really teaches you to be concise. And what I like to compare it is I'm a lot slower. She operates a lot faster. But often we have to communicate the same level. You have two kids and you're raising a family and everything. It's a lot. Our arguments are very short.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, it started never with the idea that this is where it would be. It's just continually been one step after one step, door after another door. I was at a big defense firm, a big law firm, and then I, as a partner, I left because I want to start my own. And when I did that, I thought, well, I ought to do some social media. And that was about three years ago.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And the reason because of that is we operate on this... very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter with your spouse, with your partner, with your friend, be quick to apologize. So often it is the continual circular arguments that just tend to roll on forever. because you can't really sleep.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When you're having that bad argument with your spouse or a significant other, it keeps you up at night. It begins to live and seep, and now you're having to put on an act for your kids when really you're irritated at each other and you want to lash out. Being quick to apologize and quick to resolve that makes our arguments very short because we're fast to say, that's not what I meant.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Or I can see how that's how you would take it. I didn't mean it that way. I didn't intend it that way. Whenever you can push out your intentions rather than pushing how they should react, it's a big difference. What I mean by that is here I am taking the accountability of I could have done better communicating that versus why would you behave that way?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Why would you even behave that way when I said this? Who reacts like that? So when you take the responsibility for being understood, radical things can change.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
There are times when, and again, I'm not pointing to where people are in toxic relationships, people with narcissistic tendencies. Yes, that can be circular and terrible. I'm not saying you should just apologize to apologize. What I'm communicating is, Whenever there is a friction in the conversation, we make sure that it doesn't get heated. In other words, it doesn't combust and turn into flame.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It is trying to draw it out by unraveling the knot and going, okay, this is how I understood it. What did you hear? Okay, that's not what I intended at all. I'm sorry. What I meant to say was X, Y, and Z. So the quicker you can get to that, the better. Right.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, they can sense it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
I want to make sure I tell you, right along with that, this happened sometime last year with my son, who is now seven. And I got home, long day, suit and tie, and I'm starting to make their lunches for tomorrow. Son asked me, you know, how your day was, Dad? And I said, I was fine, buddy. It was good. It was a good day. How was your day? And I'm continuing to make the sandwich.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And he doesn't bring it up again. We go on about dinner and bedtime, bath, everything. I'm sitting on his bed for prayers and song. And first thing he asked was, why did you tell me it was a good day when it wasn't? I kid you not, that is exactly what he said. I said, what did you mean? He said, you didn't say it like it was good. You said it like you were sad.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I started making videos talking about my law firm. I was a personal injury attorney. This is what I did. And I just felt sour about it going, yeah, I'm just selling myself. And I didn't feel that great. And I just kind of had this moment of, well, what do I really want to, what do I want my kids to see? If I'm not here anymore, is that really what I want to post?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I mean, it was such a just slap in the face of, I'm never going to say it was just good again. I need to, he needs to hear that from me, even when the day has been bad. He needs to hear when it's been tough. I mean, that's... And it was just this moment of how dare I try to just gloss over the fact that he needs to know that I have hard days too. And that hit me just like a ton of bricks.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So yeah, no hiding from him.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
So values are intrinsic to everybody. What I value is gonna be different than what you value. They might be similar, but we all take it different ways based on how we've been raised. What values do is guide you like a North Star when you don't have any kind of compass. What I do, what I encourage, is that people have conversational values. Because when you do, decisions become easier.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Take it, for example, with a company. Major Fortune 500 companies, like your company, there are ones that have values. And when you have a value, decisions become easier because you don't have to question it. You follow the value. If my value is I only work with clients who align with me, It comes easy. I don't have to make that decision. I know that that's what I'm going to work with.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Same thing in your conversation. So one of my values that I hold dearly is where there is kindness, I will use it. Where there is room for kindness, I will use it. It doesn't matter what they did. It doesn't matter what they caused. The question is, is there room for kindness? And that comes from my mama. I'd complain about something that somewhat happened at school, expecting her to, you know,
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Buy into the tea. Let's get some, you know, how dare they kind of thing. And what my mom would say is, well, were you kind? I can hear it in my head. She'd say, well, were you kind? And I would always go, I mean, probably not, Mom. And she'd go, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was just her thing. And that became such a value of me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When I'm talking on the phone to an opposing attorney and he says something snide, I know that he's trying to jab me. Is there room for kindness? I'll use it. And I'll say something like, well, you know what? I know you really care for your clients. I know you really care for your clients, Matt. And that really shows.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Any way that I can just share a little bit of kindness, I don't have to worry about the next zinger. I don't have to worry about what can I say to impress them. Is there room for kindness? And that's what I'll do. But I have others.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so often people post things without thinking of the legacy that they're leaving. And that really hit me hard of like, who do I want my kids to see that I am and that I stood for? And I thought, well, what's one thing that I feel that I know that's my gift that I can share? And it was, oh, I can teach people how to communicate, how to handle argument, how to turn conflict into connection.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Every time.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yes.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Because how they interpret it is going to be how they interpret it. I'm the one that has to be left with it. I'm the one that has to walk away and go home to my family. And if I'm carrying that conversation that I have with that opposing attorney home, Why? They don't deserve that. That's not what that conversation was for. That's not why they said it.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so having these values, another that I love to use is if I can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. If things burn down and don't work out with other people, that's okay. they'll always still know where I'm at. They always know where to find me. So when you have these ideas in your head of what my value is.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Be a lighthouse. Be a lighthouse. Yeah, so let's say you and I have been friends and we have a big fallout. Despite what I say, and I'm really trying to mend this relationship, and it's just not happening. You've written me off. It's not working out. That bridge is really burned. Well, that's okay. I'm still going to be a lighthouse. Maybe I'll see you in five years.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Maybe I'll see you in 15 years when life has happened to both of us. But I'm not going to change the light that I'm going to put out into the world just because our bridge was burned.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And so when you have these values, and every one of us has a value, and that's how you handle your conversations because it allows you to, I don't have to worry about decisions. the values make the decisions for me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
paragraph that's gonna punch them in the mouth yeah it's got it always has a bad aftertaste yeah always yeah it may not be right within that moment it but it'll probably be the next morning it'll definitely be a week from now and i mean it's the longer it goes the harder it is to come back together
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Self-worth matters of who you're listening to. It's the question of who are you listening to when it's, say, I have the confidence or I can be assertive or I shouldn't have said that. It is the line of who are you listening to in your life that's driving your confidence. Your own value. So much of what we put in self-value is a lie often. It's doubt.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
We sow a lot of doubt into ourselves and that can grow over time to where when you get that one comment from a troll, all of a sudden you feel like they're telling you the truth. And really all they're doing is speaking to your doubts. And self-worth is something that you can grow into and
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so I thought, well, no, I can't do that. I need the right camera. I need the right lighting. I need to look like a lawyer. And eventually I just got over the excuses and I thought, well, I don't have an office because I just started my firm. I said, but I have my truck and I have my phone. Let's go. So I made my first few videos and then they just started to take off from there.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
i don't want to say lean into it's something you step into because when you can learn how to communicate effectively to stand up for yourself just a little bit you have that self-worth when you can tell somebody no and it works you feel excited about it you feel worthy and you feel like hey i have that within myself a good good job okay now you feel a little bit better and then you continue to grow in that step by step by step but self-worth is very much tied to your communication because again how you communicate
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
is who you are and how you feel about yourself.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Oh, yeah. Yes. No doubt. Because it's, who are you listening to? Am I listening to my own doubts? People who are negative, say negative things. And people who are positive, say positive things. It's as simple as that. When you start to doubt yourself, it's because you're listening to your doubts. You're not listening to the positivity.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
When you feel anxious, you're listening to the anxiety-inducing thoughts of what-ifs of what-ifs, rather than the comfort in knowing, I know this, I know this, I know this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I just built a wonderful, wonderful community of people that really care about communication and I just believe that a better world begins with a better conversation. I really do.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Worthy is groundbreaking.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
This book is going to change lives.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Oh, nothing. They got zero. I Googled, why do my videos have zero views? And I even, there was one where I hired a good friend to record a video for me, TikTok style, because that was the big thing at the time, like very fast, quick transitions.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And I paid him to do it, and I posted it. And you know how many people saw it, Jamie?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Zero. Nobody. Nobody. There are more people that watched me making a video with my kids, which I don't post my kids anymore, and my family. than they did for the video that I paid for. And I thought something's not right. It's just, I'm not, I'm not being myself. I'm not being authentic.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And that was just what, um, that was a path that was open for me to say, no, you need to start sharing what's, what's on your heart.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Absolutely. It was really rewarding. I still get the same feeling. I can't tell you, Jamie, how eye-opening it is for me, the fact that I make these videos in my car. Nobody else is around. It's in a parking lot. It's on the side of wherever. I make them in a gas station.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
No budget. And I think about them almost immediately before I make them. And then right after I make them, I post them. Yeah. Probably not wise, but I don't batch anything. So what they're seeing is really my thoughts in real time of what happened in my day, what's going on. But the ability to help somebody in the comp, first when I started to get some followers, that was very new to me.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
I originally only had like 800 followers, which, by the way, were all friends from school, in law school. That was more intimidating to post to real friends and people that you knew. Yeah. you care about their opinion a whole lot more than if it's a whole bunch of strangers. And so slowly, I just got really, really sweet comments of people saying, this is great. I'd love to hear about this.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And what are your thoughts on that? And just when you operate in a spirit of giving, a lot of good things happen.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
yeah jimmy my parents every night um my dad would sit on the edge of my bed lean over and pray and say dear god give jefferson wisdom and always be his friend and that was the prayer for all of my life and i in my heart never will doubt the fact that what i have in communication is a gift and it is my honor my blessing to share that gift
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And so when I share it, I don't think of millions of followers. I think of one person. And in many ways, that is my ability to be the light in their life that they needed to just hear how to inject some grace and kindness into their world. And that is that is my my gift to share. That's why it's my joy, because it's truly my gift.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
It's not something that, you know, people say, oh, you learned it in law school. It's because you're an attorney. No, no, no. Law school teaches you how to read the law. It doesn't teach you how to read people. And so many things that have happened to me are from a spirit of discernment that you only know when you feel it, and that's the wisdom that is given.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. It was painful at the beginning. Those are some of the most emotional, difficult conversations. He's been at that firm for over 35 years. I was been there for maybe six. And I just knew in my heart of hearts, this is not... I wasn't fulfilled. Like I said, I felt like I was running with a parachute. Something was always holding me back.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
I wouldn't be able to express how I wanted to express. I couldn't really be creative. Having the conversation with him of leaving the firm, It may not sound like a big deal to some people. It was a really big deal. And he, I mean, almost begged me to stay. I mean, because in some sense, it was me leaving him. And so it wasn't leaving the firm. It was me leaving him.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
The ability to talk about cases every day. I'm walking away from that. The things that were heart-wrenching and just felt like a kick in the gut, that it wasn't I was leaving the firm. I was leaving him. And that was really hard to express. And he just would ask to help me save it. Let's do something different, get more involved. And I just would be, I've done that. I've tried. This is my path.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher
And that was really, really difficult. But the way things turn out,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review or a like or a star. It really matters and it means a lot to me and I look at it all.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
What would you say to the person listening right now is one habit that they can work towards in their life right now to simply improve their communication?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
As soon as your book came out, I immediately ran and got it because I just don't find that there's that many resources on communication. I want to make sure that I hit this question that stuck out with me in the book, and is that the most persuasive people don't argue their point. They ask great questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
you suddenly become much more likely to listen to me even on a subconscious level and that looping for understanding that's entirely a habit yes i i i could not agree more listen i care about you if you're listening to this podcast i care about you and because i care about you as somebody who also loves communication and conversations i know that you can't just have all these conversations in your head yeah i can give you advice but sometimes you need
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
more. You need to talk to somebody else who's trained in helping guide you through this. And that's where therapy comes in. I go to therapy. It's incredibly helpful. And a sponsor of this podcast is BetterHelp. What they do, it's an online platform where they can connect you with online therapists. All you have to do is fill out a quick questionnaire and they match you with a therapist.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And if it doesn't work out with somebody else, they can easily switch you to somebody new. But the and diving deeper for better answers. Because conversations come with questions. Therapy comes with answers. You can go to BetterHelp.com slash Jefferson Fisher for a discount on your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash Jefferson Fisher.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
To put it in a nutshell, how I interpret this is that for anybody listening, number one, if you can, ask a question instead of the response. So anytime somebody's sharing something with you, we make a mistake when we all of a sudden start talking about ourselves.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Like Charles was saying, you're just kind of waiting to be like, no, actually, you know what I did the other day, instead of actually listening to somebody. You can cure all that simply by asking one question. One that I like to ask is, is asking them, what was your favorite part? Because everybody has a favorite part. I do this with my kids, and I'm sure you have the same thing with yours.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Day's done, and if I say, how was your day? It was good. It was fine. Yeah. What'd you learn? I don't know. Nothing. I was cool. It was okay. Right. But if I ask, what was your favorite part? they almost always come up with something that was like, ah, this is the thing that is my favorite part.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And if you can just ask that one question, it makes them feel like you're actually what they said has value instead of trying to step on their story or step on what they're trying to share, because you're really trying to be relatable. But in some sense, you're taking that away. So asking just one question and then almost repeating back what they said
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
to make you feel that connection is just a brilliant strategy. And it works every time. I mean, I've seen it work every time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
We really do. We really do. Anytime we get to...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
i think talk about the emotion behind the words we're really searching for that i i that's exactly i hear you on that a thousand percent because when you when you say what's your favorite part it's not something practical it's not saying what you know knowledge did you receive it's a being a favor or having a favor it's a feeling of that's exactly right this is what i gravitated towards the most
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And if I could write that down and put it on my mirror every day, that's exactly what I would do. Can you tell us more about what that means to you and how people can, people listening to it right now, how can they apply it in their every day from the kitchen to the living room to their workplace, asking great questions?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
I find that even if somebody's telling me, let's say, about their hard day, You just say, how was your day? And they go on and on and on. And you simply just say, that sounds hard. They're like, oh, yes. That's all they needed. That's all they needed. They're complaining about what somebody did to them. You go, yeah, that sounds rude. Isn't it? That's all they're wanting, the feeling.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That sounds hard.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. I mean, all of that, it, it's much more powerful than just the words themselves. In your book, you have a section, in fact, several different parts where you talk about jury deliberations. Yeah. And I got into that and I was like, all right, here we go. Because I... Of course, in my legal background, I love this kind of stuff.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Also, if you've never seen the movie 12 Angry Men, fantastic movie that I think illustrates a lot of the points that were being made. And what I took away from it is that anytime you take 12 people, they go back to do any kind of jury deliberation, whether it's civil case, criminal case. There has to be a foreman, somebody who's kind of the ringleader.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
A lot of the times that happens to be a teacher because teachers just naturally are gathering people. Believe it or not, in trial, when you're picking a jury, most people won't pick teachers. Because most people tend to go the teacher's way. And so if a teacher is on the jury, they are very opinionated and they're very good at teaching others to match their opinion.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
It's too much of a risk on a jury to have a teacher because you don't know, are they going to go for your side or the other side? Right. They're on your side. Great. That means most people are going to be on your side. It's just so funny how a lot of times teachers are very polarizing because they are very quick and they pick up on a lot of different things and they're great at.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
just teaching, and juries, and jury deliberations, they'll teach other people. And so some people like that, some people don't.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. So first off, for anybody hearing, he said, in Texas, we call that and it's what it is. It's the process of asking a jury questions. So if you ever got a jury summons, you go into the room. And there's a whole bunch of prospective jurors that they call the veneer. And attorneys get to ask them questions. And then the attorneys get to pick the people they want to be in the jury.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
It's a whole process that's supposed to push in fairness. Now, the question is, do you think that there's a way that we can kind of sense this person's personality, which way they're going to go, what's their temperature? I would say yes. So what I like to do and what I've gotten good at is you use a prospective juror almost as an early witness. So I might ask a question.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
I've done it before where, you know, the officer, let's say at an accident, the officer really didn't pay attention to my client. He was going to get talking to other people in the accident, but never really asked my client any questions. And so I asked the jury, have you ever been in an accident? Hands raised. Are police officers involved? Yes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Have you ever had it to where a police officer really didn't ask you anything? A few people answered, so I get to talk to them. Well, how did that make you feel? Well, I kind of felt dismissed by that. Okay, noted. And so anybody else ever felt dismissed in a case where you felt like you weren't hearing your point out and you knew what you knew and some other hands were raised?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And you kind of get to use that person as a – as a voice almost. Oh, that's interesting. To influence the other people's opinion. And it's putting a temperature and tone to where my position is going to be. And then if I'm going to try and get that person on the jury, most likely they're not. If they answer, if you want to get knocked out of a jury, all you have to do is talk a lot.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
You're almost guaranteed to not be on because you've already shown you're very opinionated. So that means one side isn't going to like you. But that means when I'm asking my questions to the witness, I'm going to ask those, have you ever felt... You know what I mean? I'm bringing that theme up again every single time. So it's trying to, it's those little things like that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's really interesting. I love it. And what you do so well in the book is you pull together these concepts of how people interact. What you called, I believe it was like a quiet negotiation of who's going to talk first. How are we going to... how are we going to set the structure around how we are to communicate? And I was curious what you see as our daily application of the quiet negotiation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
So if you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. My new book, The Next Conversation is officially out. You can find the links down in the show notes. This is a book that's going to give you not just what to say, but how to say it and give you tools immediately to help give you the power to change everything about your life simply by what you say next. I'm really proud of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. I'd love that point of there's this silence before the conversation that you're looking for clues, you're filling them out. Like maybe you meet somebody new for the first time and maybe y'all spent kind of 10 minutes around each other and you learned
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
What they're like, maybe there's somebody who has really dry humor or somebody that just kind of you silently kind of start roasting the other people in the room or maybe you start, you know, you or it could be on the other side. Somebody comes into your office and they're in tears. You know, it's about to be a very serious, confidential situation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
or when somebody leans in and is like, hey, real quick, just between me and you. It's like, hey, all of a sudden we've now zeroed in on each other of how we're going to communicate. So that feeling this person out, it's funny how we almost do that programmatically. Just we can tell.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
There's no words that need to be said, but I'm going to adjust my behavior simply by the energy that I'm matching with the other person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Thank you very much.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Thank you Thank you. Thank you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yes, absolutely. What I hear is this everyday small talk that most people feel anxious about. I don't want to ask a question. I don't want to be too much. You can have surface questions and deep questions, and the great communicators have a wonderful skill at making the deep questions sound just like the shallow ones.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's exactly where you're not having to feel like, what is your deepest desire? Tell me about your childhood. Like these things that I don't I don't know you. Is that is that the way you feel about it? Like if you're going to conversation and instead of this, what else? Question mark versus what else? Like you finding ways of sounding them, make them sound like a statement.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Everything's going well and I'm excited to share it with you. Also, if you're wanting to continue to practice your new communication skills, I'm going to encourage you to go to the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication, where a lot of exciting things are happening. I have a whole library of resources. I have an AI that can help answer texts and emails for you from that difficult coworker.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
I love that. Not asking about facts. Ask about how they feel. That's something that's immediately applicable that somebody could apply right now. And what I see, too, is in my line and work as an attorney, in cross-examination, when you're asking somebody questions, a lot of the time you can tell somebody. what they're wanting to talk about based on how they end their first sentence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Oh, that's interesting. When they end their answer. They might end their answer just a little bit short because they are trying to invite you to let them in just a little bit more, to talk just a little bit more. So it's very telling how... They end their answer. They might end it on like a cliffhanger or somebody might say, you know, yeah. And so they might they might end it with it. Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
So, you know, that's. And they've kind of hit a dead end. They're not sure how to get there. And so they're inviting you to kind of help me, walk me through that door.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's so funny. Yeah, so my grandfather would have this habit of when we'd be, like, at a restaurant all together, and he'd ask you, you know, Jefferson, how's that fish? And I'd say, well, it's great. And it was an invitation for me to say, would you like a bite? That was always his go-to. He would say, yeah, how's that chicken right there? And it's his way of saying, that looks good.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And he'd invite me and go, would you like a bite? And I'd go, yeah, I think I would. Sounds like a super communicator. I think he knew what he wanted out of the conversation. That's the invitation right there is what you're hearing. I love that. The takeaway is instead of trying to push your point, even in the small, little everyday conversations, you find ways to ask more questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And on top of that, we have live classes and a whole lot of fun. You can also find that link down in the show notes. If you've ever wondered how the great communicators become great communicators, well, you're in for a treat on this episode. Today, we're hearing from Charles Duhigg. This guy is not only a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, he is an amazing author and somebody I am actually...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Super communicators ask much more than the average person on questions that they can put into somebody else's life. The takeaway is invest in the questions. That's exactly right. Exactly. I love that. I want to tell you about a sponsor of this podcast called Cozy Earth. The reason why I went with Cozy was because I already use their products. Their sheets are on my bed right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
My wife loves their pajamas. I love their hoodies, their sweatshirts, their blankets. If you're like me and just want to be comfortable, look no further than Cozy Earth. You And use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. Use the code Jefferson for 40% off. If you're a blanket person, if you're a sheet person, if you're a towel person, they're who you want.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Go to Cozy Earth. In your book, Super Communicators, which is fantastic, I encourage everybody right now while you're listening to this episode, just go run and buy it. It's wonderful.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
You talk about three types of conversations that people could be in, really at any given time. And that to me, when I read it, was going, oh, that's really cool. And kind of breaking it up into, I'm very visual. Like anytime you're in a conversation, you have like a yellow wire, a blue wire, and a green wire. And you never really know which one to pull.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And what you do so well is you synthesize these and to say, hey, really, anytime you're in a conversation, you're in one of these three boxes. Can you tell us about that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. That's where somebody says, you're not listening to me. Yes, I am.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Yeah. I find that in those moments,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
it's um the person is not looking for reciprocal words they're looking for reciprocal feeling if you're having that emotional conversation when you're complaining about your day you're looking for a feeling from that other person the the acknowledgement words don't do it words don't give it it's the emotion the feeling that you go okay now we've connected the your white wire with my white wire and now i now we're connected
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
geeking over to talk to about is somebody who loves communication because he has a book out that is called Super Communicators. And I just can't wait to get into it and talk about it. He's a dad of two, I believe. And I know you're over in California. Charles, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. This is such a treat. Yeah, it has been so cool.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
That's wild.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
Isn't it fun that we can be excited about communication like this? We're part of the weirdos, man. Definitely.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
it doesn't matter a lick no it doesn't yeah look i mean in and it um it's so funny that you might have these brilliant minds but then the clients don't want to work with them because they don't feel like there's that service like they can talk but this person's yet brilliant and there's so such a difference between your trial litigators and the people that are let's say more transactional
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Charles Duhigg: Asking Questions That Build Instant Connection
And so it's just so funny to hear that and experience that. But yeah, communication is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Now I know that you also, you've done so much research, in fact, have a whole separate book on just habits, the power of habits. And of course, everybody's looking for better habits.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm gonna ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review. My new book, The Next Conversation, is out to order.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, I totally agree because there's the flip side of you don't want to have zero conflict where you only have conflict in the bedroom.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so one thing y'all are so good at that I know I've applied to my marriage is y'all are very quick to forgive. Y'all are very quick to say, I'm sorry. I think that plays a big role in how long the argument lasts, because if you just for people who withhold that apology, like they use it almost as a punishment in a way when they're withholding that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Here's my plan for this is for anybody listening, we're going to talk a few things about Jefferson, because I know there's some curiosity of how did this guy get so weird about communication? And on this other end of making sure that we're giving very practical solutions and techniques of how y'all raised me and my siblings, I'm the oldest of four, for anybody that doesn't know, how y'all...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
But I absolutely agree that on the flip side, having knock down, drag out arguments is is not healthy at the same time you want to see you want the kids to see you come to resolution right right but i've had that too where it is My son thinks that he did something wrong when we're arguing or he'll say or he'll mistake just banter and playful banter as argument, as conflict.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And we kind of have to say, no, no, no, we're not. We're not arguing. Yeah. And so and I think some kids are very perceptive of that, more sensitive to that. My daughter could really care less what we're – but son is especially in tune with what we're talking about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I mean, and you remember – I won't – I'm not going to say his name, but I was – I grew up with a friend who lived not too far down the street, and his parents argued – in front of us, like really did. And I remember looking like, is everything okay? And he just acted like nothing happened. I mean, just kept eating his cereal. I mean, never looked up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And I think so many people are now realizing in their own life how they handle conflict, having that struggle to apologize, having those hard times. They're now seeing that reflected of how they grew up. So I'm curious, Mom, how did you grow up with conflict?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's true. I can attest to that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
regularly and just you need to tell people i'm sorry i was i'm sorry i was wrong i think that's that's a crucial point it's not just to apologize not just so your kid hears you apologize to your spouse to them but also that they hear i am sorry because you're not perfect either exactly yeah
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
kind of laid the strategy for how you wanted to be parents. So I'm going to ask right at the outset, is what was the main themes and thoughts and hopes and prayers before you had children before you had made anybody out there that is hoping to have children, they have very new kids, what were some of the things that was very important to to y'all?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. What can we do to fix it? Yeah. Confidence is not all about only saying it when you're right. It's admitting when you're wrong. That's where the confidence comes from.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. That's very true. When you see now kind of where this whole thing is taken in my life, just the whole social media thing, I'm curious. This is this is aside from communication advice for a second, because I get this question of, you know, what do your parents think? Usually what Sierra thinks was the family. What do you all think about all of this stuff?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
When I first told you, I have having some people follow me on social on social media. And then you continue to see it grow. So I'm curious how you've seen it from your end.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, he always would say.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, that I talked a lot. That was the thing. And I was quick-witted. I think that was the pull from there. And I don't know who I got that from. Probably a combination of... You both. Because I grew up seeing dad very diplomatic. Dad's the peacemaker. Everywhere he goes, he's definitely the peacemaker. Where we have other cousins and other family, they're not that way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
They're much more bull in a china closet. I mean, they'll rip you one side and down the other. But dad's always been the diplomatic. And then you, I feel like, have always had a sense of just warmth. You're a very loving personality. Like you're not rough at all. So you're very easy to talk to. And I think the combination of that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
led to a lot of my philosophies and how I began to communicate early on. Dad, what do you think about this social media stuff?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, does my mama Sherilyn?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's good. There's so much of it of people asking, how did you get this way? Where do you get all this stuff? And I always tell them, what I share is not something you read. Anywhere else, it's just part of my experience.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, Sherilyn. I've always called her mama, so she... Yeah, he always calls me mama.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And y'all have seen. And I just wanted to make sure that we shared some things about communication advice, some things about me personally that people have just been curious about. And I'm just... I find that when I say it has to do a lot with my experience, a major part of that is y'all, just my parents. If I had been born to two different people, I would have been a totally different person.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I agree. I agree. And it's been such a cool experience. I never thought we'd be doing a podcast and getting to interview my parents. That's cool. And the whole thing has just been amazing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
You can find the links there in the show notes, as well as my School of Communication and Membership. Today, I cannot be any more excited to be speaking and bringing to you some people that mean the absolute world to me, where it all started, and that would be my parents. Hey, Mom. Hello. Hey, Mama. Hey, Dad.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
wild anybody who's followed me and listening knows how left field this has come for me but that's kind of part of the authenticity of there's never been a motive there's never been a i want to do this with this so it's just been fun to enjoy it it's come a long way from the
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, it really has been fun to be part of. I mean, I can't believe it's happening.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I want to take a second right now and tell you about a sponsor of this podcast, and they're called Cozy Earth. The reason why I said yes to Cozy Earth is because their sheets are on my bed right now. I've used them for months, if not years, and they're the best. My wife loves her pajamas. I love their hoodies and their sweatshirts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So if you want to be home and you're like me, you just want to be cozy and comfortable. You can go to cozyearth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's cozyearth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. So one major question that I see a lot of people asking is,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
is how did you teach, I say me, but really all of us, all of my siblings, the balance between being assertive, meaning not being a wallflower and getting stepped over, and how do you also balance kindness? You want to not be rude to somebody, but at the same time, you want to be very direct. I'm curious if y'all had any... mindset or tools for how you thought or how you gave me advice about that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Like, for example, dad, you would tell me if I came to complain about something, you'd say, don't make that your Alamo. That's what you'd say. You say, don't make that your Alamo. In other words, don't, don't be that, let that be the hill to die on. And there was this kind of sense of, so, you know,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I mean, the kind of the, when Jonathan was upset that mom was all in his business, and mom just, and you say so? I mean, there are just things about that. I'm just curious what the balance was like for y'all, what y'all saw.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. And what do you think it is about with charisma? How do you define that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
How did you see that, mom? Maybe not with just assertiveness, but on top of how you when when we say zero tolerance policy, what was your mindset of what you how you would handle me or any of us when we said something that was disrespectful, which I'm sure was very few times, mama?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Mama would always say, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Oh, yeah. No, it was not like a spanking heart on my hand.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Well, you, I mean, you would always, as I got to see, like we talked about being kind of a second dad with Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob, and seeing that, I found myself a lot of times in the role as the mediator. Mm-hmm. very early on with that to where a lot of the problems didn't, I kind of took it as like a thing of, I didn't want the problems to hit y'all's plate. And not, but not in a bad way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, I feel like it's a, the people that are charismatic tend to be very warm.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
It became like a thing that I enjoyed. I also know, I mean, just being reflective and open with my personality, And I can see that in my son. I was very perceptive of emotions, like how you were feeling. And so even now, if I watch a movie and there's an awkward moment, I can't take it. If there's a conflict, even in the movie, because I can feel it. And Jed has the same exact thing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so I'm curious how you saw... And that transition with how I handled my emotions and maybe there could be some nuggets in there of how we can teach some other people to recognize that in their kids and what emotional intelligence means to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
It's just something about them that you like to listen.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, we have a very close relationship with my siblings still. But yeah, that was definitely, I mean, you were always there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Like to listen to them. Well, I feel like, I mean, you had, until Sarah, my sister, was born, it was just me and you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's no doubt, I'm sure. But yeah, I find that. And people who are really good at reading others' emotions, I mean, and we could even talk about this in like the legal space too, as we're both attorneys, as some of the most excellent communicators are those that can have high emotional intelligence and can read emotions in others' faces. Just have that intuition.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And they can know how to say things a certain way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
To produce a certain outcome based on what they know about those people's emotions. And so I've seen that even with our son and when he wants to, let's say, play a video game, which we do not allow until maybe a Saturday afternoon for like an hour. And the way he asks the question, it's so funny, like every time he asks the question changes every week because he's like trying a different way to.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
get in there and now he's using his sister of using her as what she would want and like seeing if i would give more preference to her versus he's testing exactly i remember taking with the dairy queen and he wanted to throw away a paper napkin that's my son yes yes yeah and he wanted to throw it away i said no not now we're still eating ice cream
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So how, I mean, that's a very pivotal time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Just trying to find a way to... I think that really developed a lot of my... How I come up with little phrases or metaphors or twists for things of how to say, like I like wordsmithing. And so I think that helped develop that at a very early age.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, that's kind of developed what we're doing now. Well, I want to make sure and leave people with, if there is any thoughts that you have as a parent, not of a parent of Jefferson, just a parent of any child in what you find to be one of the biggest things that they can do to help give them confidence in how they communicate, maybe open them up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And we already talked about how it's great to apologize to them and let them see that. I think it's great that you encouraged me to not see problems as big as they needed to be. You'd say, is that going to be your Alamo? Is that really going to be that important? And when you asked me that question, it was like, you know what?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
It's really not that important, but that became, I mean, I still remember it. So it became so ingrained in me of seeing what was important. So what, what are some lasting thoughts that you might have for parents that are wanting to make sure that they put their kids on the right path?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. Even if they're a brother and sister.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. I think it teaches them at an early age to use that as a weapon.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And without understanding the— It can be very hurtful.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
can second that because i can remember both of you uh especially you dad you would always probably every day i'm proud of you i mean you would made it a mission critical to say you were proud of me now i know being being a kid you know i'm looking all over the room i'm being goofy i mean it's i i try to talk to my kids and to get their attention to look me in the eye and just say something you
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
that you feel is significant, very difficult because they're just, they're everywhere. And I might say something sweet and they go, you know, why does a pelican have a big beak? You know, it's just, did I even say it? And so, but I'm here to tell you that I did hear it and I remember it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, and I think even for parents who did not have that role modeled growing up, I think there's a message here, too, of that they can change that. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's just because they had a rough upbringing does not mean that's the same upbringing that their kid is going to have. Exactly. And even if they didn't have that model for them and they didn't feel that, it's—
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
They can set it right. I think it really just changes on the next generation. Right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
yeah well learn and to grow for sure and i think i mean now i mean there's so many podcasts on parenting and accounts wonderful accounts and experts on parenting and things you should say not say what you do i mean um and y'all just didn't have that i mean you just didn't have that's what i mean i mean you just didn't you didn't have nearly that i mean you can go to
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yes. No, that was one thing that I always felt very vulnerable. I could be very vulnerable with you. I could say just about anything. I talk about being a safe space. in communication for your kids. And that, that is saying, thank you for coming to me with this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Instead of just getting so upset to where they don't want to come back and say things like, I can't imagine ever in a world where I am not my child's go-to for when things go wrong. You know, you don't, you, you want to be that you don't want to be where they're trying to hide it from dad or mom and not do that. So it makes a big difference. And have fun.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so I said, who's there? Yeah. And you go, it's Jefferson. I said, Jefferson who? Jefferson Fisher. I said, what do you do, Jefferson Fisher? You go on.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. And I remember a mirror. Oh, yes. And the way the living room was set up, there was a mirror behind the couch.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
For sure. I could not be any more grateful that I want it on the record. I could not be any more grateful that y'all are my parents and that y'all have influenced my life forever and beyond. And I couldn't imagine ever having any other parents. So I want to let you both know I love you very, very much. And thank you for praying over me. Thank you for praying over me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And, um, and just being who you are and a joy to anybody who gets to know you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So I love y'all. Love you too.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And I never do that. I never talk to myself. I'm so glad I grew out of that. Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Well, it was. I mean, for four years, it was just me. So I was.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Right. I'm with you. Dad, I want to make sure and ask, this is my dad, David. For you, I'm going to kind of pose that same question. What were some of your goals before having kids and me coming into the world as a father? Just for any, not just because it was me, but because any child, you're now a father. What were some of the main themes?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Doing great. Awesome. Are y'all comfortable? You're all good? You bet. So for anybody listening, this is the very first time I've ever had a guest, and so I want to make sure that my first guest that I ever had was going to be y'all. Yeah. And make sure that this was important to me and that y'all knew how much I loved y'all and how thankful I am for everything you've done for me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And when I was... As long as I can remember, you've prayed that prayer. I mean, as long as I can remember. I truly credit it, y'all's prayers, for how I've turned out. I've had a little bit to do with it, but for the most part, I mean, a lot of what y'all put me in positioned me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And so this is really for the parents that are listening or people that are wanting to have kids or maybe you have nieces and nephews. It... It matters when you have goals and themes and a focus of where your heart is and how it develops their character.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, they kind of absorb what they see if you're not living up to what they have. Yeah. Now, I am also curious. I asked this to mom. Mama, what do you how did you see the dynamic between once? So I'm the oldest of four. There's Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob. Once Sarah was born, Jonathan, Jacob. How did you see me being from, you know, a.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
one child by myself to now kind of taking on this role as brother. And how did you feel like you saw that develop in me and little things maybe you saw in communication? And the reason why I'm asking is so that anybody listening can spot some things of how they saw the oldest child versus the youngest child and how you saw some of those dynamics changing in our house.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
This is the very first time I've had guests, so we're just going to make it work. Anybody listening, they know how my style is and they know that this is just a... a casual conversation. There's none of this that is pre done or set up. Y'all really don't have any idea what I was going to ask you. Uh, and mom, you look beautiful. I know you were worried about what y'all are going to wear.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. And then when Jonathan.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Jonathan, my younger brother, Jonathan couldn't say his vowels very well. And so consonants.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
yeah that's probably my row man yeah and that's that was what he did so i just kind of became that i loved i still love being big brother there's a theme that i i pick up on and i'm sure anybody who's listening senses this from you mama and is just the kindness i don't know a single person or human that does not like mama. And so you've always radiated kindness. And yeah, of course.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And I got to see a lot of that growing up because I can remember coming and saying that somebody had done something that made me upset and I'd bring it to you to complain and you'd say, well, were you kind? And I'd say, but mom, you don't understand. And you wouldn't have any of it. You'd just say, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was the whole outlook from that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
So how do you see kindness and what does it mean to you? How do you like to put it out into the world? What's your secret?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. Well, I mean, you had a – I can remember – It was very early on for people listening in the South. It's yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. That is a sign of respect and manners. And if you said it, you expected that to be it. Yes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
That's very true. I think I just got PTSD for a second. Yeah. Hearing all that, yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Y'all did. You did great. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. So I want to make sure we're all good and comfortable. And so I have some have some questions. There's some that I pulled from people that follow my content that I put out on social media. And I also had some of my own. So I want to.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah. Yeah. Very, very defensive. I mean, it's one thing for you to say something about your mama, but... Somebody else said something about your mama. Those are fighting words every single time. I want to turn gears a little bit to specifically conflict and arguments. I remember in y'alls and growing up in our house, Y'all really did not argue in front of us.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
I mean, there were just normal spats, but when it came to serious arguing, y'all did it in y'all's room. Cause I can remember. like keeping the kids away of like, no, mom and dad are talking. Y'all go down the hall. Let's let's, you know, go entertain them for whatever.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
And then, or if it was late at night, you know, after the kids go to bed and I was older, so it wasn't like, um, and it wasn't that big of a house. I mean, if y'all were talking seriously, you could hear voices. I didn't know what y'all were saying. Um, Outside of when we were in the car. I mean, of course, if you're late, late for church, everybody's just, yeah, yeah. Taking off on vacation.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
Yeah, yeah, on vacation for sure. Then you have to hear argument. But I'm curious on y'all's take about... For people who are just rethinking how they saw arguments happen in their life, I'm curious how you saw it with your parents and how that shaped how y'all did it with us, specifically conflict.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator
What did I do wrong? That's such a good point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Today is a big day, y'all, and it's going to be probably an emotional episode for me, and I'm okay with that. Today, my book, The Next Conversation, Are You Less? Talk More, is released. Today is publication day, my very first publication day, and I cannot be any more excited, thrilled, and honored to give a piece of myself to you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation. the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review, give it a star, give it a like, give it a heart. Whatever it is, it helps. It really does. And I'm very appreciative for it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Please know that. If you have any topic suggestions, you can just throw them in the comments. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. The reason why I love Cozy Earth as a sponsor is because I actually use their products and I like them, but my wife loves them. Their towels, their bed sheets, anything cozy and comfortable from the tops to pants, sweatshirts to sweatpants are awesome. Love them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. And on that site, there's a whole list of my favorite things that I personally like to wear. So I encourage you to go check it out. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. In today's episode, we're going to go over three things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
One, how I even got here, how a book even happens. Because if you're like me listening, you have no clue how a book goes out into the world. I didn't either. And this has been a whole entire process and a learning process. In fact, every day is still a learning process. So for those of you who are curious, I'm going to share a little bit of the background of how I even got here.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Next, we're going to go through the framework of the next conversation, Are You Less? Talk More, in the three-part framework that I set out to help improve your next conversation. And we're going to talk about why it matters. Today's episode is all about the book. About two and a half years ago,
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I was getting comments in all of my content about, you should write a book, please write a book, please write a book. And I thought, well, I guess I got to write a book. I've never, listen to me, never in a million years was a book on my bingo card. I never thought about it ever once. I never thought, oh, I wish I could write a book. That wasn't anywhere in my whole mindset.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So when people started asking and leaving comments saying, you should write a book, I thought, well, okay. So I Googled. I went to Google and typed in, how do you write a book? So I spent an evening one night just kind of surfing, seeing, hey, how do you write a book? Lord knows I didn't know. And I saw things about you should self-publish.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
If you've enjoyed any of my content at all at any point in time, and I'm assuming you have if you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to ask you to buy and purchase this book. You You can find a link there or you can go to jeffersonfisher.com book. You can find it there or you can just go in the show notes of this episode and you're going to find the link.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So I started researching on how to self-publish a book and I thought, well, I'll just kind of create a little bit of something and then share it with my followers and be done. I didn't care a lick about making any money from it. I just wanted to give people tangible things that they could mark up, write down, highlight that they could have and make their own. That sounded awesome to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And over time, while I was jotting down ideas, I started getting emails from literary agents. These are people, agents that connect authors to publishers, people who print books and distribute books. So it's kind of like a middleman. And they're able to take percentages of things, a typical agent, just like a real estate agent. They connect the buyer to the seller.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And so I have an amazing literary agent. And through that, you write something called a proposal. It's a document that lines out what you think the book is going to be and what you think the book is going to be about. It's kind of like a business proposal about a book. Because when you go to these big publishing houses, They kind of treat the book as an investment, so to speak.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
They see it as something of, okay, is this something that's going to have legs, not have legs? Is it going to help a lot of people or is the message not right? It's kind of why this book and why now? That's really the main theme of what they're curious about. And so I was able to get a wonderful book deal with Penguin Random House. And you have big houses like Penguin Random House.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It used to be Random House and Penguin. Now they're together. You have Simon & Schuster. You have HarperCollins. And underneath them, they have all little bitty things called imprints. So think of like a big overarching company and then a bunch of little sub companies underneath it. My imprint is called Tarture Paragy, and they're the sister to Avery. Wonderful, wonderful people, wonderful editor.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It's fantastic. They're just great. And they really helped pull a lot of my message out. And I used a book coach. His name is Blake Atwood. Fantastic guy. You can see all of my acknowledgments of everybody who helped. And what a book coach does is kind of just help you stay disciplined. They don't write the book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
They just help you organize things and be disciplined because who knows how to write a book? I didn't know. I didn't go into writing like this. So, you know, every part of my book I wrote and that was important because I wanted to sound like my voice. That was very, very crucial to me is that it sounded like my voice. And that's where you're going to get in this. I also narrated my audio book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
That was very important to me because I wanted everybody to hear the voice on how I say things. Because of all I do on social media, people have recognized my voice. And sometimes my voice is more recognizable than my face to some people. And because they only see me like this, they don't see me standing up. They don't see the sides of my face, just not that common.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So they recognize my voice, narrated my audio book. That was a three and a half day process in a studio in Houston. It was it was cool. It was different, way harder than you think it was. But I narrated the audio book. This book is also available on Audible, anywhere, Apple books, anywhere you want to get your audio book. And I have had a lot of people say they get both.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
which I've never heard before, but that's awesome. You can get it wherever you want to listen to it. So if this voice doesn't bother you that much, you can get the audio book. So that's how this process got here, how I went from making the videos in my car, people saying, hey, you should make a book. I got hit up by different agents. They're the ones that helped tell me how this process went.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Go to your favorite retailer and buy it. And let me tell you why. Because you are investing in your next conversation. There's lots of reasons why I titled it this way. And we're going to talk about that today. But most of the time you've invested in things that you just don't even think about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And then now I am here. And before you know it, this book is published. And I helped design this cover. And I have wonderful people who designed this cover, who helped give ideas for things. It's a very collaborative process when you're going through a traditional route, aside from self-publishing. So that's how I even got here. This book is lined out in three different parts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And of course you knew it was going to be three. I always give three. There are three rules for how to have a better next conversation. Rule number one, you're going to say it with control. You can't go forward in conversation without controlling yourself before trying to control the other person. Number two, you're going to say it with confidence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Rule number two is say it with confidence, meaning you're going to find your assertive voice. We're going to pull it out of you, and the result is going to be a much more confident you. And three, you're going to say it to connect. You're going to find ways to reach that difficult person and improve the way you're having conversations
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
difficult conversations to make them just a little bit easier in your life. And on top of that, I have a bonus chapter, all right? It's not, everybody doesn't know that. There is a bonus chapter in this book specific to narcissists and gaslighting and toxic people. The reason why it's a bonus chapter is because, I mean, it could really be its own, it could be its own book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It could be its own book and it just might be. Because there's a lot to go into that. I wanted people in the book I have out right now to see that this is the essentials framework. This is what I want to leave my kids. This is how I want to be remembered if I... somehow don't exist tomorrow. This is something that I'm very proud of and it is right to the point.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Maybe later we're going to have, maybe there'll be another book where we go deeper and deeper into things and we're going to talk more about narcissists and gaslighting. For now, I just put it in a bonus chapter. And so I'm going to issue that. And I think what we're going to do actually is release a part of my audio book for you listeners. I think that's going to be a whole lot of fun.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So rule number one is say it with control. Rule number two is say it with confidence. And rule number three is say it to connect. Now, do I include my details in here? Yeah, you're going to find little bitty snippets of my viral videos that have most resonated with you over time that I'm going to give you a lot of how-tos. But it's not just that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So you can say, yes, he's going to give me a lot of the how-tos that I can mark up, highlight. It's more than that. I'm wanting to give you the behind. I'm wanting to give you the context. You can take your mind in difficult conversations that I can't explain nearly as well in a short 47-second clip. At the end, there's also a part that I really liked. I got a kick out of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
You've invested in every time that caffeine habit, you've invested in that mental health, you've invested in your own fitness, you've invested in work efficiency tools, but rarely if ever have you invested in your communication and how you communicate and you show up in the difficult conversations. And this book is not going to tell you just how to do it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
As I write in the very back of 47 second version, meaning if I had distilled everything in this book into a social media clip, this is what it's going to be. And I'm going to read it to you right now. Cool? Wherever you are, if you're listening to headphones in your car, work out. Rule number one, Never win an argument or you'll lose a lot more than you gain.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
When you regulate your reactions before responding, you keep a clear head and a calm mind. Rule number two, confidence isn't an act. It's an outcome. Use words and short phrases that assert your needs and protect your values without fear of disappointment. When you embrace your assertive voice, you make a pathway for more positive change in your life.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
And number three, don't worry yourself over how to change your entire relationship. Focus on changing just the next conversation. When you frame a conversation as something to learn rather than something to prove, you take out the difficulty in building connection. So try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
This is something that I cannot be more proud of in this entire experience of everything that I have put together for you. And the reason why I find so much joy out of making this is because I get to share my voice with you just a little bit more. If you have purchased this book and once you read this book, It would be my greatest honor if you leave it a review, wherever you buy the book from.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
Maybe it's Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Books A Million, wherever you get it. wherever you listen to it on audiobook, leave a review for me if you don't mind. That's the only way that people know if something is good or not is they just look at the reviews. So that really makes a big difference to me. And if you read it and you get the book, post it on social media. Make your own video that I can tag.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
If you tag me, hashtag the next conversation, I'm able to look at it. I'll be able to grab it. and share it on my platform, which is a thrill for me to be able to share more of what my followers in the community have put out and then I can put it on mine. So that would be a huge honor. I'm also going on a book tour. So my book tour starts very soon.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
If you have not bought tickets, I think we already have Chicago and LA, I believe are sold out. So that's really cool. We're going to 10 different cities. I'll put the link down in the show notes for my tour. I'm going to 10 cities. I think we're going to, I know we're going to New York, LA, we're going to South Carolina, North Carolina. We're going to Tempe, Arizona.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
We're going to Houston, Austin, Dallas, and a few more. So that's awesome. And for any of you UK listeners, I'm going to the UK, going to London for a week in the beginning of June. Very excited about that. Going to have an event there. So this whole world is just all part of it. If you're still listening to me right now, you know that I'm just experimenting a lot with what's happening in my life.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
It's going to give you the words of exactly what to say. And you will be amazed at the way you're going to show up in conversations and bring more positive and bring more of what you want in your life. You can go to thenextconversation.com to get a copy of this book. I'm honored for it. Thank you for letting me put this out into the world.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I made these videos in my car. Last season were all videos in my car. And now I have this studio where I'm still going to be making some... solo episodes, and I'll still mix it up and go do it in the car. I don't want you to feel like anything has changed. I'm experimenting with these interviews.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I was totally honored to talk to Mel Robbins, Chris Voss, Charles Duhigg, a few of these others that are, these episodes are probably going to be coming out right around the same time. And others that I have lined up that are really just friends of mine that I have developed in this space. that I'm just honored to bring them to you. But that doesn't mean I'm only going to always do that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
So we're just going to try it out. And I love, love, love when you give me feedback in the comments. You go, hey, look, I'd rather I like the microphone or I like the studio. Or even if you say, hey, I prefer the car. That's all good for me to know. I want to bring content that you're going to like in a way that I can share what
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
is on my heart and what I like to talk about to you, every single person. So in this book, The Next Conversation, make your next conversation the one that changes everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
I had endorsements from Andrew Huberman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Mel Robbins, Chris Voss, and Dr. Becky Kennedy, all heavy hitters and wonderful friends of mine that I was thrilled to have their endorsement recommendation for this book. I can't believe it, y'all, that this is all happening so fast. And it'll be over before you know it. We'll have today's release day.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
We're going to start on the tour tomorrow. And I think it's about three and a half weeks, nearly four weeks of that. And yes, family's good. They're going to come with me to as many events as they can. And I'm still going to be back in time to make kids happy.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
The Next Conversation Starts Here
t-ball games and coach pitch games and as many practices as i can i'm not missing any of that my family's all good with me so i'm still keeping my priorities there and just finding the balance as as much as i can so if you need me you can find me probably talking to you through my phone or here in your uh your headphones the next conversation argue less talk more go get it if you're interested in making your next conversation the one that changes everything i'll talk to you soon
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Hey y'all, it's Jefferson. On today's episode, I'm going to be sharing with you three must-know truths that are going to change the way you communicate and how to leverage those mindsets to improve your life for the better. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. In fact, season two of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation a
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
This is me trying to talk to you and share what's on my heart. I'm looking forward to sharing. Season two of the podcast got a lot of things coming that we're still planning on that I just, I cannot wait to share with you. Thanks for being with me. And as always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
that you love and people that I love that are going to also just continue to pour into you as much as they have poured into me. All right, three things that I want you to know that are going to change the way you communicate. Are you listening? Are you ready? Number one, never win an argument. Whenever your goal is to win an argument, you lose so much more every time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And it gets me frustrated, to tell you the truth, of how much I see out in the world, videos to blogs to books and magazines and articles on how to win every argument. Let me tell you right now. It is a lie. It's snake oil. It's clickbait. It's not true. It has nothing to do with real world. That's why it does not work. When you've ever seen, like, why am I not winning this argument?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Because the idea of winning it does not work. It never has. It never will. People like to say, well, Jefferson, aren't you an attorney? Isn't this kind of your day job? This is what you do for a living. You win arguments. Absolutely not. No, that's not how it works. As a trial attorney, any trial attorney who is in the courtroom, you do not choose your client's facts.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
When a client walks into my door and they have, hey, I've been in an accident and here are my facts, I can't create new facts that will help my case, and I can't get rid of facts or delete facts that hurt my case. I am stuck with the cards that are dealt. Same thing applies with the law. I can't choose. I'm here in Texas. I can't choose what laws I'm going to follow or not going to follow.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
They apply to everyone here in the state. Same if the federal level or any state in the U.S. I can't choose any of that. And so when it comes to arguing as an attorney. It's more about giving the facts and evidence a voice. How can I persuade you based upon my facts and what I have in the law? And then it's ultimately up to the finder of fact, is how they call it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review, give it a like, a star, anything helps. It really does. I want to also let you know that my new book, The Next Conversation, is officially out on pre-order.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
You have the judge or you have the jury, and it's going to be those are the people who decide what's persuasive and what's not, and how are they following the law. At the end of the day, they have to follow the law. It has nothing to do about who's winning an argument. The other attorney might have better facts. The other attorney might have better law. It has nothing to do with me winning it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So it's not even the same thing in the courtroom or as an attorney. You cannot win every argument. When you do, when you set out to say, I want to win this argument, you will lose the relationship with this person. It may not be the first time. It may not be the second time. But over... time and time and time again, the value and quality of that relationship is going to continue to go down.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Here's what I mean. When you and I are fighting and we're trying to win an argument, what I've really won is your contempt. You're now mad at me, most likely. I've won your ability to have awkward silence now every time we pass each other in the hall. I still have to probably work with this person, probably have to live with this person. What have you won?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
You've really probably won the first chance. You're now the first person up to have to apologize. Often we win arguments because we said something that was over the top, went too far, below the belt, anything that made the argument stop. Just because you're the last one who speaks does not mean that you're the one who won the argument. It is just not true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So every time you try to see yourself as winning an argument, you're going to lose the relationship. You're going to lose their respect. You're going to lose their trust, their confidence. And over time, you're going to lose the ability to connect with that person when you always set out to win an argument. So instead of winning an argument, this is what I want you to do.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
See the argument as something to unravel. See the argument as something to unravel, as in a knot. You have one side, I have the other, and when I'm pulling and we're pulling, it just makes the knot tighter and tighter. It doesn't go anywhere. Instead of seeing who's going to win this tug-of-war, you have to stop, put it down, and find a way to locate the not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And when you do, that's where you have the heart of the matter, where you can start to unravel and say, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. They're trying to understand where you're coming from. Then you can talk. Then you can connect with the person. It is not winning an argument that is going to change the way you communicate. It is seeing the way that you can unravel the not.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I really hope that resonates with you. It's one of the main pillars that I use every day in my communication and how I see things between two people and how we connect with each other. Don't look to win the argument. You want to look to unravel the knot. You just have to be patient enough. Truth number two, have something to learn, not something to prove.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And if you like anything about this podcast, I promise you, you're going to like the book. And for the first time, I have the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication that is now out and ready online. All you have to do is just look in the show notes. I'll have all the links posted right there.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Now this goes beautifully with the first point of never win an argument. Number two says, have something to learn, not something to prove. Struggle happens, difficulty happens, bad things happen in communication when I'm trying to prove something against you. Here's the fact of it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
The harder I work to push against you, the harder I push to prove my point, the more hardened you'll become that I'm wrong. Because what you don't know is that behind everybody, as we're going to talk here in the third step, is there is a surface and a depth behind everybody. So if I were to say, you're wrong. Hey, you listening right now? You're wrong.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Whatever opinion you have, I'm going to say that it's wrong. But what I don't know is when I tell you that you're wrong, I could also be saying that... Your family member is wrong. Your grandparent is wrong. What you've known your whole life is wrong. We all come into circumstances with different life experiences.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So if you've been raised, maybe, let's say, in a particular religion your entire life, or you've heard only a certain political party your entire life, these are big concepts I'm talking about here. Or maybe you grew up in an area that is culturally...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
a certain way, and somebody says that that's wrong, what you're doing is just changing their whole paradigm and saying everything about you is wrong. And we will get so defensive, even to the point of refusing to listen, to be able to preserve that identity that the other person has. They will fight tooth and nail. It doesn't matter. That's why logic does not work in these circumstances.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Logic doesn't work because it is part of their identity. It is their value in their life of this is who I am. If you're saying that I'm wrong, that means my dad's wrong, my mom's wrong, my grandparents are wrong. And it ties to a whole lot more when somebody likes, let's say, a political candidate. It doesn't matter what party. And you say that they're wrong.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Well, you get a lot of people that are fans of certain people get very defensive because they've tied their identity to that person. You have to understand that you come into it with something to learn, not something to prove in that conversation. I get really worked up about these things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
truths because they hit so much at home for me like these the points that i give they're a little quick rapid things i'm always going to be giving you those i want to start season two a little bit different that does not mean i'm going to continue to to do the bigger concepts i always give practical takeaways and i'm going to give that to you here is i want you to to get used to this mindset of when you see struggle when there's friction in the communication ask yourself
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Before we go into the three things that I want to dive into, you might notice something a little bit different. The sound quality might be a little bit different. I now have a mic for a phone. I'm in a studio and not in my car. Now I want to tell you, don't worry, I'm still going to be making car videos, those daily car videos that you see and that I enjoy making for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Am I trying to prove something, or am I trying to learn something? Here's a depiction of this, an illustration I want you to have in your mind. If I'm arguing with you, I cannot pour, let's say I have a glass of water, I cannot pour water into your full pitcher. I can't pour new thoughts into a pitcher that's already full. I have to let you get it all out.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I have to ask you questions and get curious of how long have you, you know, how'd you come to that conclusion? How long have you thought like this? Things that you're getting information out of the other person rather than just trying to splash the water in their face and saying, take this and whatever, everything I say is right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Instead, you need to ask questions that get it all out, and only then is there space for you to fill it with your new thoughts. Have something to learn, not something to prove. Truth number three is one of my favorites. The person you see is not the person you're talking to. The person you see is not the person you're talking to. Like we said in step two, everybody has a surface and a depth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
The person who's serving you coffee at the cafe, maybe they served it a little late. Maybe they had a little bit of attitude. That's the person you see. But the person you're talking to, maybe should have been off two hours ago or just got a terribly rude comment from a customer an hour before and now it's weighing on them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Or maybe their kids are staying with their mom and they're in a bad mood because they don't like where they are in life. There's always a surface and a depth. People that you're driving behind, like this is for me right here, I'm talking to myself. When you're driving in the left lane and somebody's in the left lane here in the United States, You have the right lane, left lane.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Our default is typically in the right lane through a single lane passing traffic, but it's two lanes. Left lane is for passing. The right lane is for those that go slow. So anytime you want to, somebody's going slow in the left lane, it irritates me to no end, but I'm working on that. See, I can work on things too.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Well, anytime you're going slow behind a car, that's probably going to speed limit, let's be honest. You just automatically assume they are in your way. Get out of my way. How dare you be in my way? You don't know what in the world's going on with their life. You don't know what kind of news this person is dealing with.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Same way when somebody's coming up behind you, like what we call on your rear, when they are right up behind you, you think, what do you want? What do you want from me? And you get aggravated that they're trying to speed you up. So it just goes all into this thing of we like to think about ourselves. It's our default. It's natural.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I want you to see that the person you see is not the person you're talking to. So you have to get really curious about understanding that everybody has something going on that you don't know about. People you're related to, they have struggles they don't share with you. Your kids, there are things that are happening in their life that they may not share with you. Same thing with your work.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
But when it comes to podcasting and more longer form content, I can't always make it in the car. I'll still keep the episodes short. I'm hoping to keep it at the 12 to 18, 20 minute mark right in there to where it's It's something that you can listen to right in your commute, but I don't want to have super long-form content right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
You have a supervisor, an employee. There are things going in their life that you don't know. They're having conversations in their head that you aren't part of. For those that have been in relationships or are in one right now, you've all experienced this concept where somebody comes into the house, the room, the apartment, whatever, and you can just tell they're in a bad mood.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And it's not until 20 minutes into the conversation you're like, is something wrong with you? Well, it turns out what happened to them happened six hours before, and they've been living with that long before they came in contact with you. So things happen that you have no idea about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
So when you go into this thing of, exactly who I see with this person is exactly who they are, and you go into stereotypes, and you say, oh, I'm going to call a spade a spade. That's fine. Do what you need to do. Understand that's not the real person. I've seen some of the toughest people, meanest looking people, be the biggest teddy bears and sweethearts. I've also seen the smallest teddy
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
may it say oldest, weakest people, be the sturdiest, strongest humans I've ever come across. You cannot judge a book by its cover. Now, I also want to make sure and take a second to tell you about a sponsor of this podcast, and they're called Cozy Earth. And the reason why I said yes to Cozy Earth is because I already use their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed right now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I wear their sweatshirts and their sweatpants. My wife loves their pajamas. I can't imagine using anything else. So if you are like me and you like to wear cozy things when you're home, you can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
Three truths that I want you to understand when it comes to communication. You use these mindsets by thinking about them, taking them to heart. I want you to just take for a moment and see what has resonated with you in this conversation that we're having here. Yeah, it's a conversation. I know I'm talking to you and you're not talking back, but you are in many ways.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
When you leave comments, when you comment on any videos, I get to hear from you. For those that are part of my newsletter, you're able to ask me questions and I'm able to field those. Throughout this rest of the season, I will be answering my newsletter emails. I have lots of them that I've starred and I want to make sure that I get to. You can also join my newsletter there in the show notes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I have a little link for it there. I want you to understand that when you go into communication, applying these will change the way you think. And when you use them, it will improve your life. When you, number one, stop seeing arguments as something to win, but something to unravel. Number two, have something to learn, not something to prove.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And number three, the person you see is not the person you're talking to. Three things that are going to change the way you communicate. That's real. Those are things that are on my heart, and those are things that are outlined in
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
I just want to keep it in the sweet spot until I get more comfortable with it and see what works in my life. So this is a change with everything that's coming up with the book launch, and I'm also going to be bringing you guests for the first time. I'm going to have solo episodes too. You're still going to hear from me, but I also want to bring you some guests that I know –
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
in chapter one of my book, things that really, really mean a lot significantly to me, and I hope they've shone some light, shared some light, and shed some light onto you. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm going to ask you to, again, just follow this podcast, and if you would, leave a review. I'd love to have you part of the newsletter.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
My Top 3 Lessons in Communication
And again, my book, The Next Conversation, is currently still on pre-order. If you'd like, I would still love to have any kind of feedback that you have. So if you like or don't like this studio setup, if you like or don't like the microphone, just tell me. All this stuff is new to me. This is not super fancy. There's not some big, huge team.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast. If you would, leave a review, give it a like, give it a star. It all matters, and it matters certainly to me because I look at it also.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Use words that are negative in the first part of your sentence, and that's going to flip for them to have to answer also in the negative, rather than try to say something positive in the beginning. Would you agree with that? That's perfectly described. Yeah, well, I think that's a... And I'm going to do that in my own life. Also, I want to make sure we get this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
This is Tactical Empathy on Netflix? Yes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Amazon. Sorry, Amazon. I'm going to put that on my cart. I want to bookmark that. Yeah, record it in my memory. I think that is one of the just magical ways by just a simple turn of phrase will create so much power in the conversation that the other person really just has... No clue about it. It's still the same thing.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
You're still wanting to get that same information, but you're using the fact that we naturally want to say no because no is very comfortable. Not that they're trying to turn you down. It's just no is more comfortable to say. And so by using that to your advantage, you're going to get more of what you want. There's something else that you teach that it's called an accusation audit.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And tactical empathy is right in line with my mission in the world. So thanks for putting this out here for us. Yeah, man, it's my pleasure.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I love these. When I first read the book and saw that, I was like, this is brilliant. For anybody who has not heard what an accusation audit is in your world, can you just tell us?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah. You say be liberal, like be creative. Be creative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
to really get to the heart of the matter really quickly because it just deactivates and disables the negatives and inoculates for many that may pop up you don't know what just my nerd weird communication brain like how much i love i love this so much uh i've been dreaming of this conversation with you uh
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
What is the one thing that somebody can do in their conversation that is going to apply the principles of an accusation audit? And let's put in maybe a home scenario and a work scenario.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I have a quote that I pulled from your book. Now, anybody listening right now, if you if you don't have never split the difference, you're missing out on something that I'm going to tell you is going to immediately make you a better communicator. especially when it comes to positions of negotiation. And that doesn't mean just in the workplace, also means at home too, and it's this right here.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
What I find so fascinating about this is that it uses our contradictory nature. If I was gonna tell you, you're probably really exhausted today, naturally you're gonna be like, no, I'm not exhausted. You naturally want to find another word. Oh, no, I'm not exhausted. I mean, I'm tired, but I'm not. We naturally kind of just have this contrarian sense to us, some more than others in our lives.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And it just plays to that so well. Like if I was going to tell you where, like you talked about the bad way to do this, the wrong way to do it is to say, I don't mean to offend you, but now you've only almost confirmed that you will, you've almost guaranteed you will now offend them. Right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
But if you come at it from, you're probably going to think this is offensive, but, and then tell them that now they're going to think like the contrarian in the heads goes, no, that's not offensive. No, you can't offend me like that. Now they have to push against you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Do you find that it's this contradiction that we like to have of just natural disagreement with somebody, no matter what it is, it's like our gut instinct. And it's that disagreement that makes this work so well.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
For those people who negotiate, who view negotiation as a battle of arguments, it's the voices in their own head that are overwhelming them. I love it because I think there's so much truth to that, that people get so caught up in that anxiety because it's not what you're saying. It's the voices in their own head of what they're telling themselves.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I love that. Yeah, Judge Judy, what an icon. Something I want to make sure and bring up so that my listeners can hear this. The phrase, sounds like there's a reason for saying that. Sounds like you have a reason for saying that. What is the power behind that phrase that somebody can use immediately in their next conversation, and what will that do for them?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Listen, I care about you. If you're listening to this podcast, I care about you. And because I care about you as somebody who also loves communication and conversations, I know that you can't just have all these conversations in your head. Yeah, I can give you advice, but sometimes you need more. You need to talk to somebody else who's trained in helping guide you through this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And that's where therapy comes in. I go to therapy. It's incredibly helpful. And a sponsor of this podcast is BetterHelp. What they do, it's an online platform where they can connect you with online therapists. All you have to do is fill out a quick questionnaire, and they match you with a therapist. And if it doesn't work out with somebody else, they can easily switch you to somebody new.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
But the point is you're getting it out now. and diving deeper for better answers. Because conversations come with questions. Therapy comes with answers. You can go to betterhelp.com slash jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash jeffersonfisher. I find that in my world, I cross-examine people in a deposition.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And if I say, sounds like there's more to that, which is very similar. I mean, it's the same type of method here. They always have a reason for saying it. They always have more behind it. And I think you're absolutely right. It's such a good way of getting more information out without making them defensive, like making them feel like you're on the attack.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I want you to expand on that some more because I love this quote.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Here's a question I got. What is the Chris Voss way of handling passive aggressive people?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah. When you say labeling, define that for us real quick, how you apply that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
If you have any feedback or topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments, and I'll be happy to look at them. My book, The Next Conversation, is officially out. You can find the links down there in the show notes. And on top of that, if you're looking for ways to continue to further and practice your communication skills, you can go to the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, it feels very related to the whole sense of, like we said, correction. They'll want to correct you. So if you do something as simple as labeling of, I'm feeling like you feel nervous about this conversation or you feel uneasy about this. It's just you labeling that, they're going to correct you and go, no, no, I'm not uneasy. And they give you the truth versus you trying more to –
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
skate around it so labeling is just a verbally saying out loud what you're sensing and feeling in that moment exactly yeah well said one part of what i feel makes chris foss chris foss is what i guess the younger kids would call the vibes like you have this vibe that you know is your vibe where did you grow up by the way uh small town in iowa i'm a small town iowa boy Got it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And it's, I don't know where your accent comes from. Is it, I don't know how Iowans sound.
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah. But it's this, this tone that you have that like, if you had told me like, look, I just want to, I want your couch. I'd be like, no, Chris, you can't have my couch. I know it's a great couch. I shouldn't have it. But, I just, I really like this couch. And I feel like, gosh, you know what? You sound so good, Chris. Here, you can take it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
It's, what I'm getting here to is just the power of the voice and the volume and the tone. which you just have a signature style on. And I know that you talk about that as something that you were trained on, you know, that late night DJ voice. So what kind of lessons can somebody take from slowing down their words and lowering their volume, regardless of their gender?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I find that it's this... This sound, when you can hear it in somebody's voice, you just think to yourself, I want them on my side. I don't know what they have, but listening to it, I want them on my side. What I try to picture often when somebody is communicating, I kind of apply a music style. Like if I had a CD album for this person's voice, what would I apply?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Would it be something very Frank Sinatra? Would it be something super loud and crazy? Would it be hip-hop? What is the vibe of this person? And it all takes different walks of life. Some people are not for other people, and some people are easier to listen to, and some music is easier to listen to. So I think you're spot on with having the ability to slow down
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
is going to make people more drawn to you. Would that be right?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
You have just been such a truly a legend in how the way you've turned, in my view, arguments and negotiations on their head of just, that's not how we think about them, but it's the way you, the techniques you teach are really, I just find groundbreaking. To the person right now who is thinking, I don't want anybody to disagree with me. I want everybody to agree with me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I want every conversation I have, an argument that I'm in, I want to win it, and everybody needs to go along with my plan. What would you say to that person right now who feels like they always have something to prove in the conversation? Yeah, you're driving people away from you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I think you're exactly right. This idea of when you're trying to come in and prove everything and push people away, like you said, you're only draining your own bank account, bank account of life. And I think that's wise wisdom. All right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
What I learned today in our conversation, and I wish this was seven hours, is that one, it's easier to get questions answered when you flip them to get a no rather than a yes. And one way to do that is is you can begin with a negative in your question. That's going to help get a negative response to keep you down the road. Second of all, accusation audit.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
It's a way of simply saying how you assume that they might be feeling in the conversation. And the idea here is one way they'll actually correct you and tell you more of what they're feeling behind the scenes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Or three is labeling, and that is simply visually saying out loud, it seems like, it sounds like, it feels like, of what you're perceiving, that's also going to get them to open up in this conversation. Chris, did we hit it? Did we cover it? Well said, brother. Very well said.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Man, it's the best. It really is from somebody who this is just like my, I feel like I'm a minor league baseball player talking to Babe Ruth. I think it's just so cool. It's kind. I get so excited talking to you and love what you do. Thank you for coming on the podcast. It's a true honor. Thanks. Pleasure's mine, Jefferson.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, there's something about the voice inside your own head. It's how our brain does that. I really don't know. It doesn't matter. It's going to happen anyway. What's the voice that you're listening to and what's really your gut? You have this line about... Getting a no isn't the end of a conversation. It's the beginning. What is the importance of getting to no in an argument or a conversation?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Do you find that...
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
it's just because i mean as as we were little kids i mean for anybody listening i know if you have your own kids or you remember being a kid we just have a gut reaction and go no even if you know like to my son this is your favorite meal what are you talking about and he's just no or my my daughter just decides she no longer loves strawberries i'm like you couldn't eat enough strawberries yesterday it is this sense inside of us where
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And it has been a complete ball of fun in there. I have live classes. I have an AI that teaches you things to say. And you can practice on all the videos and a library of resources at your fingertips. You can find those down in the show notes. Have you ever been in a conversation that really felt like a negotiation or almost you felt out of your own depth?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Maybe it's just our own independence. Where do you think that comes from, this desire for us to immediately just go, no, I'm going to go for what's safe, and that's not filling me right now. I need to just say no.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Right. And that's really what's happening. Just, it feels good to say it. I think that explains it perfectly. You have a way of, which is, is brilliant of asking questions and, to get to a no. For those listening to us right now, what is the importance of flipping a question to get to a no rather than finding a way for them to say yes to it?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Well, I brought you somebody that is the master of all negotiations, Chris Voss. You know him, you love him, former FBI negotiator, author of Never Split the Difference, an international bestseller and CEO of the Black Swan Foundation. network, a group. So focus is to improve your negotiation skills, no matter where you're at in life. Chris, my friend, good to see you again.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I think that's just so cool. I mean, just how funny to use how our minds naturally work. I mean, for a wonderful, positive way. It's just finding how our own idiosyncrasies and our defaults of saying no. If you're anything like me, when you get home, you wanna take off your work clothes and just get comfortable. One of my favorite sponsors of this podcast is called Cozy Earth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
And the reason why I went with Cozy is because I already use their stuff. Their sheets are on my bed. Right now, my wife loves her pajamas. I, when I get home, I take off my suit and I put on a hoodie and some sweatpants. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson. And for this weekend only, March 14th through the 16th, you'll get up to 45% off on Cozy Earth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 45% off to celebrate World Sleep Week. Nothing better than that. For people listening right now, what are some great lean-ins or let's say lead-ins for how they might begin a question to flip it to no? So how would you teach somebody to begin a question to get a no answer? I've heard you say, are you against?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Would it offend you? Would you hate? Is there a certain way? What's the magic behind it?
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Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, I can learn some things.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
Yeah, Jefferson, absolute pleasure. I always enjoy talking with you. Yeah, it's so cool to be able to talk. You're such a hero of mine. I know I've told you this. We've been able to have a friendship outside of this right here. And it's just been a huge role model to me. So I want to make sure I have it on the record. I've always loved your stuff.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Chris Voss: FBI-Backed Tactics for Better Communication
I think a good takeaway for how to get people to answer no is to begin with a negative in the first part of your sentence. So instead of asking someone, is it a good time to talk, is now a bad time to talk. So you find ways to flip the positive words and the negative words. Would it be terrible of me to ask you this? Would you be offended by, is now a bad time?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to follow this podcast, and if you would, leave a review, give it a star, a like, anything helps, and it matters a whole lot to me because I look at it all.
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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And it's through that change that we have those positive outcomes. I've also heard it where it's rejection is misdirection or redirection, I think is the right term for it.
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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yeah.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yes, it is that whenever you have that internal struggle. instead of seeing it as, oh, I just, this is the worst thing. I can't believe this, my life is in shambles. Flip that mindset to say, my body is at work. I am going through growing pains. This is, I am coming out on the other side of it. My body is preparing me to be a different person.
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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It is the metamorphosis of how you're gonna be growing. I mean, it is, you are in your cocoon at that moment. I mean, so I love that concept. This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. Now, the whole reason I haven't found out about Cozy Earth is because I already use their products. Their bed sheets are on my bed right now. And let me tell you, they're the most comfortable thing I've ever slept on.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I wear their hoodies, their sweatpants. My wife loves their pajamas. So if you're like me, and when you get home, you just want to... Chill and be cozy. Look no further than Cozy Earth. You can go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson, and you can use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson, and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Really excited about it. Mel, as you know, and we've had the chance to establish a great friendship, which I'm so grateful for, is that the people that are listening right now care very much about how they communicate. And the question I first want to ask you is, how important is self-communication? What does Mel Robbins mean? say to herself, how does Mel Robbins talk to herself?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I want to make sure that we go into some things that I know without a doubt are going to help every listener here. There is something that is right now a phenomenon in the world. And if you don't know about it, I'm going to tell you, you've been living under a rock. It is Mel Robbins' book, The Let Them Theory. I have my copy right here.
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Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Number one New York Times bestseller, number one on Audible, number one on Amazon, number one Sunday Times. This is the year of Mel, and I already have my ticket. So if you're not on it, jump on board because it's going places. I love it, Mel. I love what you're doing and what you're putting out to the world.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And I think that it's just, it's come to a place where it's almost has a life of its own. I mean, it's just an absolute movement. What I want to ask for those that are listening, again, we focus on the communication aspect. is at a very root level, would you explain to the listener right now, how does the let them theory improve their difficult conversations?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It's so simple, and it is yet incredibly powerful. Now, I have some of my own personal stories I'm going to share with you of how immediately— the Let Them Theory just kind of came to light in my own life, in my own stories and experience. What I want to ask real quick is a question that maybe a listener has right now, and that is, where is the balance between applying Let Them Theory
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And also making sure where you can hold somebody accountable. Is there a way to use let them theory too much to where you're going too far with it? Have you ever seen somebody maybe apply it too far to where they're almost being too passive?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
So true.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yeah. Yeah. When we text somebody, I wish we would just normalize the thinking about you, hope you're doing, hope you have a good day. Just something as simple as that. When we often text somebody with the expectation of getting that gratification back on us, that I am such a good friend, I am such a good person, I am such a caring relative.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
When we really did it, we really texted them so that we were a little lonely. And we needed somebody to say, you're such a good person rather than just giving it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Also, I want to let you know that my new book titled The Next Conversation is officially out on pre-order. It is a book that's going to give you everything you need, the power to change everything in your life simply by what you say next.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Absolutely. And miscommunication happens in 100 conversations that never happened. Like that's, it is this, that's the key element of what I'm hearing is miscommunication. most often it's the little bitty things. It's not the big, huge conversations. It's the very small, little bitty conversations that are going to carry the day. I love that, Mel.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
The let them theory, the just phenomenon of a book, if you have not bought it, I am recommending right now, while you're listening to this episode, go click the buy and deliver it to your door. It's worth it. And it applies to everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Some things that I wanted to share, Mel, there are some people that think that the Let Them Theory has to apply to these big, big moments in their life, just like we were talking about. And what I felt, and I know what you have said, and I've just been glued to your work, is that it really does apply in every little scenario.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And what it thought of in my mind, and I just had such a wonderful role model in my life of my parents. So my dad would use this theory and not even, it wasn't even the let them theory. So I would bring something up to him and I'd be like, well, they're going to be mad if we do that. And he'd say, yeah, they're going to be mad. I said, well, no, they're going to be angry.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
He goes, yeah, I guess he'll be mad about it. Like it was just that. Well, I guess he'll be mad. Yeah. Or this is one that would always get me. We'd be driving down the two lane highway and somebody he's driving. I'm in the passenger seat and somebody right on his bumper. And I feel anxiety while I'm looking in the side mirror. I'm like, okay, dad, you gotta speed up.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And I mean, without missing a beat, he would just kind of pull over onto the shoulder and he would say out loud, go on with your bad self. That's what he'd say every time. Go on with your bad self. And so it just, it's like that now.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
We all, everybody who's listening, if you're a driver, you know what it's like that you have somebody that's either wants to pass you, you want to pass them, and you're very vocal even when you drive of everybody out there. They're either going too slow, You need to go faster. Somebody's right behind you, and you're going to take that as some kind of challenge.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Let them theory applies, especially in these micro moments that really have nothing even to do with one-on-one communication with another person. It's that self-communication that we talked about at the beginning, that it's often just letting them go, and you're going to let me take the next step. Do I have that right, Mel?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
As somebody who gives advice on a lot of different formats on how to connect with people and how to handle conflict, often some of the most important conversations are self-communication, what you say to yourself. That's why therapy is something that you need to be doing. I go to therapy. There's nothing wrong with it. It's getting conversations out of your head and just talking about it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It's more helpful than you think. A sponsor of this podcast, BetterHelp, is an online platform that helps connect you to a licensed therapist just for that purpose. And it's real easy. All you do is just fill out a survey, and they connect you with a therapist that's right for you. And if it's not a good match, no problem. They'll, at no cost, fix you up with another one.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And it's very important to get these conversations out of your head. Relationships come with questions. Therapy comes with answers. You can go to BetterHelp.com slash Jefferson Fisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. I highly recommend it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
He'd say, go on with your bad self. Go on with your bad self.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
So good. So good. I love these moments of you turning what would be an exasperated sigh into let them and let me take an intentional breath. Let me turn that into something that is really going to serve me and my purpose of where I want to go rather than I have no control. Let me just let out a sigh that is letting everybody know how
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
aggravated and annoyed I am and how much of an inconvenience they are. I think that is incredibly powerful. I want to make sure that before we go, again, we're talking about The Lethen Theory, amazing book written by Mel and also your daughter. I don't want to forget that. It was a critical, integral part of the book.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
That's wonderful. That's got to be so special.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I love it. And this goes perfectly into how we try here in my podcast. I always try to give a very practical tidbit of advice that they can use in their next conversation. And after I read The Let Them Theory, a phrase that came to mind for me over and over again is the phrase, I don't need to change your mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
So when you're in conversation with someone and there is that time where they kind of disagree and you're having that hard friction, if you can just say, I don't need to change your mind. Like that to me, is one way, one of many ways to express that let them. Because what you just said was so key to anybody who's listening. What Mel says is the absolute truth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
The more you let people be who they are, the more you can appreciate them, the more you can love them, and the more room you make for more positive in your life. So a phrase like, I don't need to change your mind. I don't need to change your mind. It is a way of allowing them the freedom saying, let them before, like you said, Mel, the next step, which is just as critical, is to let me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
And that's where you have the accountability side of it. Mel, what are your thoughts on that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Right, because originally they might be thinking like, oh, well, I kind of wanted you to, like I wanted that fight. I wanted you to, I don't need to change your mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Yeah. That's amazing. One of the many ways they use the let them theory in real application. Another thing that if people are wondering, how do you use this let them? The way I see it, people who want up you, let them want up you. If they're going to stonewall you, Let them one-up you. And people who refuse to apologize. The people that, you know, they could apologize.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
It'd be so easy, but they're just not. It's one of those you just let them. So what is, Mel, what would be the one thing that you would want to share with people the listeners here, when it comes to communication and people that are saying difficult things, how do you love the difficult people? I know that's one of my favorite chapters in the book is how do you love difficult people?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
On top of that, if you're looking for ways to further and practice your communication skills, I'm going to encourage you to join the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. It's an online membership and it is popping.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Mm-hmm. so many incredible nuggets and wisdom on our time here today and mel as somebody who appreciates communication uh i have to tell you very grateful for what you communicate out into the world and how you do it and that's why Millions of people listen to you every single day. So I want to tell you, thank you for all that you do and you put out.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Thank you for writing and putting out a wonderful, amazing book, The Let Them Theory. And of course, for me especially, thank you for being on my podcast. Thank you so much, Mel. Appreciate it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Thank you, Mel. I feel it. Thank you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
I love that. Yeah, thank you for taking us on this 360 journey. I love Dr. Julie Smith, whose new book, Open Wind, is out and is wonderful. It was so much of how you put yourself out there. You're very open about your anxiety, the self-doubt, so many things that you didn't learn about yourself until much later in life. So what would you say...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
To the person listening to us right now who, if they were in the room with us, would say, Mel, I'm getting close. I feel like I am on the edge right now. I've almost hit my limit. I am at a place where I feel lost. What would you say to that person who is struggling right now, and where do you draw from to give them the encouragement that there is more for them ahead?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
right now y'all a lot of exciting things going on there wonderful things and i'm really excited about it you can find all the links down there in the show notes and i hope you enjoy this episode have you ever found yourself struggling to let go whether it's what somebody thinks about you how they treat you or what they say to you or maybe it's the choices and actions in their own life
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Well, today I've brought you somebody who needs no introduction. She is a mother of three amazing humans, a wife to a husband, Chris, for almost 30 years, and an attorney whose experience is in criminal defense up in New York City.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
Wow. I mean, there's just so much in there. I feel like that could have been an entire episode, just those three points right there. I mean, that is such good, wonderful, applicable advice that anybody can use right away and the way they see things. In my world, what I like to teach is that it's conflict is your catalyst for positive change everywhere you've been in life. It is
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Mel Robbins: How to Handle Difficult People with the Let Them Theory
You've lost that relationship because of a conflict that has led you to a new one. You've had a conflict that has caused you to leave that job to create a new one. That the civil rights movement is from conflict that has happened where somebody says, I mean, our whole career as attorneys, somebody says, you know what, hey, I don't like that. That's not right.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You are not a target. You are not somebody's punching bag. You are not somebody's outlet for all of their frustration and their anger and their insecurities that have been built up all their life. This episode is a little bit different for the podcast. One, it's very early on a Saturday morning, and I wanted to record this so that I had the full day with the kids.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
People are far better than we give them a chance to be. Why? Because we know that in ourselves. So when you have the patience and the discipline to get to that, you're going to have a better communication and a better relationship and a better life because of that. Cool? All right. You are not a target. Hope you have a wonderful day. Oh, you thought I forgot?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
As always, you can try that and follow me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And there's a lot of wonderful things coming down the road that I can't wait to share with you. But right now with this podcast, I want to make sure it fits my life because that's where I'm going to show up best for you every time. So I want you to let me know. Give me some feedback. How are you liking it? This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I like Cozy Earth because I wear it all the time, especially when I'm traveling, especially when I'm home. It's just cozy. It's comfortable. There's a reason why it's called that. And my wife loves it. She wears the pajamas. We have their bed sheets. It's really, really comfortable. So you ought to give it a try. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I promise you, they feel amazing. CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. My book, The Next Conversation, Are You Less? Talk More is out. You can order wherever you like to order books. You can go to jeffersonfisher.com or you can go to thenextconversation.com. You'll find the links down in the show notes to get yours.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
It is officially a New York Times bestseller, instant Sunday Times bestseller. And I couldn't be any more grateful because I know it's because of you. Anybody who's listening to this right now or anybody who's purchased the book or supported my content, thank you so much.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
If you're interested in going even further in improving your communication, I'm going to encourage you to join the Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. It's an online membership where I'm able to have live classes with everyone. They're able to use my AI or actually able to give more worksheets and tools and resources than ever before. I encourage you to give it a try.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
There are links for it down in the show notes. so my book has been out for a little over a week now and it's been fantastic amazing the book tour is going wonderful and as any new debut author i for good or for bad have been looking at reviews online Because you want to know, are people going to like the book? That's the whole, you get very nervous. Are you going to deliver on the message?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And the reviews have been so kind and wonderful. And there was one that hit me yesterday that I randomly saw that I wanted to share with you. It's very short. I know you can listen to it. Just bear with me. I know you can do it. Listen, you are not a target. I was once told by my husband, you are an easy target and everyone knows it. Time and again, I walked away defeated even with my children.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
So if it looks like my face hasn't woken up yet, it's because it hasn't. We're in the middle of the book tour, which is going fantastic, but I wanted to make time to tell you what is on my heart. You ready? Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Jefferson showed me what I lacked was communication skills. From his social media, I started applying these answers to difficult situations. Let me be clear, this is not a book of his social media quips. That's what I thought it would be. No, it is learning to understand where people are and to adequately communicate with them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
It's teaching to deepen relationships by way of strong communication skills. You are not a weak person for purchasing this book. You are strong and courageous for recognizing there is a better way to bridge a gap, create healthy boundaries that work, to not get sucked down a rabbit hole, to not think you've lost your mind. I highly recommend, and I'm starting my second read-through.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Kindle Edition is an easy read. Bless you, Jefferson, for exhibiting love for people. I was just taken aback. I was totally blown away by this. I have no clue who this person is. In fact, they didn't even leave their name. It just says verified purchaser. This is my point with this is I want you to know where to go in your mind when conflict comes your way. You are not a target.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And if you felt like you've been your whole life, this is where it stops. Rule number one in my book, there are three rules. It's rule number one, say it with control. Number two, say it with confidence. Number three, say it to connect.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And the whole focus of rule number one is you can't say anything about what I teach you, whether it's my phrases, my quips, my little words, everything that I can give you. None of it matters. if you do not say it with control, if you do not first regulate yourself. So we're gonna talk about in this episode what I want you to think about when conflict comes your way.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Anytime that somebody says something that you weren't expecting, your body naturally through its biology reacts. People think that fight or flight is something that has to happen when you come with physical contact. No, that's not true. It happens every day in these little micro moments. Even when somebody just flatly disagrees with you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
When somebody disagrees with your opinion or they say something you don't like or they call you an ugly name, your body goes, hey brain, I didn't like that. And the brain goes, give me a second. Yeah, no, we definitely didn't like that. And it naturally reacts. You have a scowl on your face. You want to say something back. You get heated. Your neck and jaw get tense. All biological. All normal.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
All natural. So what do you do with that? Rule number one in my book is you use your breath. is the first word that you say. And the reason why is because it adds a distance between what they say and how you respond, which gives you time to regulate yourself, to think of the quips that I give you and the sentences I give you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
If you like learning tools to improve your communication, I want you to follow this podcast. If you're watching it, wherever you are, please add it as a subscriber and give it a like, give it a start. Anything really makes a difference. I appreciate that. And if you have any topic suggestions, just throw them in the comments. Hey, and while we're at it, how are you liking the podcast?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And it also, the other benefit is it allows the other person to calm down theirs as well. Gives time for that analytical side to take over. Every day, there are little things that tell your body, I am threatened. Somebody cuts in front of you in traffic. Somebody merges. Somebody's riding on your bumper. Your body goes, I am threatened. That's where road rage comes from.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I feel threatened in this environment. When you're talking with your kids, when somebody says something to you that they disagree with your opinion, they dismiss your idea. You don't like that. Your body's saying, hey, that feels threatening to me. I want you to do something for me right now. Now, if you're driving, don't worry about it. If you're walking on the treadmill, don't worry about it.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You can do it later. Do it in your head with me right now. I want you to think of Behavior that somebody does that really, really upsets you. And we're going to put a label on it. For example, maybe it's disrespect, dismissive, condescending, belittling, rude. Whatever it is, make it yours.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
What is a behavior that somebody exhibits that really just feels like it sets you off, that you just explode when somebody does this to you? You got it? You find that word. Now, write it down, and right next to it, I want you to write, does not threaten me. Does not threaten me. So, the sentence would be, Dismissiveness does not threaten me. Rude comments, backtalk, insults do not threaten me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
This is the mindset I want you to have when this kind of stuff comes up in your life. Why? Because it is telling your body of, hey, when somebody raises their voice, that doesn't threaten me. When somebody calls me that, the way I'm reacting and telling my body is, hey, this does not threaten me. That's what you're doing with your breath in that moment.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
That's why we give it time to tell your body what is happening in front of me is not a threat, right? It's this idea that you have, you've seen the big animals, whether it's a lion or an elephant or something, they have like some, maybe a little dog or something. They just go, what is this? It's like a little animal coming up to a big animal. They're not threatened.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
in any way that's the whole mindset here of hey what you're doing is this isn't threatening to me i'm seeing right through it cool i'm going to tell you a quick story right now that um i haven't i don't think i've ever shared this was oh maybe three weeks ago or so and where was i I think it was in San Diego Airport. I was in the San Diego Airport. It may have been San Diego.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Everything's blending together at this moment, and it's early. Give me a break. is I got through security at TSA and went and I was looking for my gate, looking for my gate and I kept following the signs and then all of a sudden I was outside of it, outside of the security.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
The gate, the terminal, it wasn't the terminal, the gate was actually in a separate terminal and I had just walked myself all the way through. I had already gone through security. I had already gone through all the check and the getting your stuff out and ready and giving your ID.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Really, I know I've moved out of my car. So I was making them in my car, really just an iPhone. And I had this, I say the studio built that you're seeing. It's just a room, that's it, nothing fancy. So how are you liking it? Do you like it better when I'm just in my car? Do you like the studio? Do you like the setup? Is the sound better for you? Because it is a better mic.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I started walking out and I passed this exit where it goes, you know, the point of no return or has a red line there at the airport. And I walk out of it. And all of a sudden, this is me by myself. And I look and I go, I say this out loud. Oh, my gosh, I got to do this all over again. because I have to know I'm going further down where a separate terminal is.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And I say, oh my gosh, I got to do this all over again. And a voice that I had no clue where it was coming from, female voice goes, that's why you should read the sign, sir. And I'm trying to find who that is. And I turn and look. And as I'm looking, she goes, you have no one to blame but yourself, sir. That's why we have signs. I don't know if you're feeling this, just hearing it to me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Just the way the tone came across was so condescending and unexpected and unnecessary. You ever had that? That's why we have signs, sir. You have no one to blame but yourself. And I remember...
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
being just taken aback who who who are you and it was a tsa agent now if you're a tsa agent i know not everybody is rough and can be terrible and i hey i'm an attorney for crying out loud not all attorneys are bad there are some tsa agents that are wonderful there are some people that are bad we all have bad apples in every profession this one right here this lady she was middle-aged lady
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
I just looked so smug as soon as she said that. And this is what my body wanted to come back with some really good zingers in that moment. I wanted to say a few things to her because it was really rude. It was unnecessary. And this is what I did. Of course, I have to practice what I preach, right? I gave it, I looked at her for like five seconds trying to figure out, is this, did she say that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And I just give it time and now she's sitting back and blinking and looking at me. Her smile is gone. And this is what I asked her. I said, how do you feel when you say that kind of thing to someone? Does it give you joy? That's what I said, verbatim. And immediately she got red, like, and just got red in the face. and apologized right there. I don't have to prompt anything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
She goes, I'm sorry, sir. You're right. That wasn't kind. You're right, sir. I'm sorry. Yes, you can find the terminal if you go straight down, and now she was in helping mode. Now she was in helping mode. You can go right here, and this is where it's going to be. I would say, oh, well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. All right. You have a wonderful day. You are not a target for
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You are not somebody's punching bag. You are not the outlet for somebody to release all of their frustrations and their angers and their smugness on you. These tools work. This is why I talk about them. That's why I feel so passionate about sharing these. You had the choice right in that moment when somebody says something ugly, when they're the TSA agent in your life, how are you gonna react?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
What are you gonna say to that person? Are you going to allow them to just press your remote control and manipulate all your emotions? I had a choice. You have a choice. Is that going to ruin your day? I just can't believe you'd say that. Excuse me? Are you talking to me?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Do you like me having guests and trying that out? Or do you like it when I do solo? Or do you like a mix of both? I am at a time in my life where I am making sure my priority is that whatever I do, it's fitting the life that I have with my family as the priority. And I will always make my videos and do all that.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
You see how it easily could go the other way when you give in to that fight or flight, when you don't use your breath, when you don't regulate yourself. If you do not say things with control, it doesn't matter what kind of tip I can give you. It's not going to work. It ain't going to work. You have to say it with control. You are not a target. I hope that this is a good reminder for you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
Wherever you are, I can give you lots of tools and tips on what to say, and we have different podcast episodes on that, and I'm going to continue to give you podcast episodes on this And I want to make sure that you know and you hear, and really the message is very simple for today. You are not a target.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
When that happens, I want you to go to your breath, regulate yourself, and then use the questions that I've taught you. These are questions like, did you mean? Did you mean for that to be rude? Did you mean to insult me? Did you mean for that to embarrass me? Or you give it time and then you ask somebody a question of intent. How did you expect me to react to that? I could have said that to her.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
How did you want me to respond to that? How does it make you feel? Imagine being the person who would say that to someone. These ways of responding to rude behavior that is actually not a response. It's a question. You're not giving them matters of substance. I'm not saying, you spit in my eye, let me spit back in yours. No, it is a reflection of their own behavior and character.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
How to Stay Calm When You’re Disrespected
And nine times out of ten, the other person sees that because they, because you're giving them time to, are seeing. It's like the blood, the red. It's not blood. The red comes out of their system. You know, if somebody's seeing red, you have to give them time for that to go away. Come back to normal. Come back. I know that's not who you are. People are not
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Hey, y'all. Welcome to a special episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast. Today's episode is a little bit different, and I couldn't be more excited about it. My book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More, is finally here, and so is the audiobook. I am currently sitting in my hotel room in North Carolina on the book tour.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's easy to believe that communication should be cut and dried. A world where you say, you're wrong, and the other person immediately replies, why yes, yes I most certainly am. A place where when someone says, I'm fine, the only possible interpretation of the phrase is that they're totally and unequivocally fine.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Sitting at the conference room table, waiting for people to arrive, I looked up to see a half-human, half-giant. His outline took up the whole doorway. Naturally, I stood up and walked over to him to shake his hand and introduce myself. Jefferson Fisher, I said with a smile. Bobby, he muttered. Now, I'm not a small guy. I'm over six feet tall, but I barely came up to Bobby LaPre's chest.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Where what you see on the outside is all there is to someone on the inside, and the boot always fits. That's how you think it should be. That's what you want it to be, but that's not the way it is. When you tell someone that they're wrong, they become more convinced that they're right. When someone says they're fine, they're often anything but. It's never as simple as matching stereotypes.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Given these problems, I want to go ahead and acknowledge a central theme of this book, and I hope you let this coin drop from your head to your heart. The person you see isn't the person you're talking to. Think of a river and its undercurrent. On the surface, your eyes and ears can pick up a person's physical cues that shape your perception and judgments about them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
But what's happening below the surface, that's where the real truth runs. For instance, the coworker you see is agitated and impatient. The coworker you're talking to didn't sleep well last night because he's worried about convincing his brother to go to rehab. The cashier you see is scattered and inattentive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
The cashier you're talking to is worried about affording her kids back-to-school supplies. The spouse you see is tense and short-fused. The spouse you're talking to had a horrible day at work starting with an email from a rude client. Or in my case, the mountain of a man I saw was aggressive and defensive.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
The Bobby LaPre I was talking to, on the other hand, felt alone and worried about his mother. It's this other person you're talking to, the person you don't know who you need to reach for when conflict starts to tear you apart. Understanding that there's more beneath the surface is one thing, but figuring out how to connect with their deeper self is another.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
How exactly are you supposed to reach them? The Struggle You Hear When Bobby called my question stupid, Everything inside me wanted to prove him wrong. In that instant, the needs of the case took a backseat to my needs. My desire to be seen as right blinded me to any other options. I wanted to win. It's what I'm expected to do. Oh, you're an attorney? You must win a lot of arguments.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I hear it all the time. It's also not true. Thanks to the countless books out there claiming to teach you how to win every argument, that's all anyone thinks you're supposed to do. Win. So let me tell you now. If that's why you're listening to this, go ahead and return it. The sales pitch of winning an argument is overused and overpromised. That's not this book. And I'll tell you why.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
For one, you can win an argument and still be wrong. And second, even if you win, you still come up empty-handed. Winning an argument is a losing game. Winning means that you've likely lost something far more valuable. Their trust, their respect, or worse, the connection. The only reward you've won is their contempt. And for what? The argument ends. The conversation is over. You won.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Congratulations. Now what do you got? the same unresolved issue at the cost of hurt feelings and awkward silence. Most likely, you still have to find a way to communicate with this person. You still have to live with them, to work with them. Depending on what you said, you may now be the one who owes an apology.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Any feeling of pride is short-lived compared to the lasting damage to the relationship. Trial attorneys don't even win arguments. They don't get to choose their clients' facts. They don't get to choose which law to follow. Everything has to pass through a filter of admissibility. Then it's up to the judge or the jury to apply the law to the evidence.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
What we do is more about giving facts a voice than it is about winning an argument. Competition in communication has convinced society that the world is divided into right and wrong, winners and losers. After a political debate, the first question someone asks the next morning is always, who won? But if we go back in time to the ancient Greeks, discourse had nothing to do with winning.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
A debate over opposing issues was a vehicle for pursuing truth. Exposing the weakness in another person's argument was to strengthen and refine it, not dismiss it. Debates were known to last for days, even weeks, to give each other time to obtain perspective and explore divisive issues. Today, the tendency is to do just the opposite.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He was an absolute mountain. As we shook hands, the squeeze from his ginormous, callous hands left an imprint in mine like a scene from a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I'd never been around someone so physically intimidating. The case involved a bar fight, and I was representing a bystander who had gotten caught up in the scuffle.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Rather than allowing disagreement to open you up to learning from another person's perspective, you shut it down. Instead of refining your own understanding, you treat it as a threat. We run to social media like it's our personal megaphone to voice just how much we disagree. Now, be honest with me. How many times has a social media post disparaging your point of view ever changed your mind?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And how many times has something you posted that criticized someone else's opinion ever changed theirs? Never. The world turns, the news cycle moves on, and the next day, no one cares. So what then? What did you prove? The fastest way to lose your peace of mind is to give someone a piece of yours. Beating out someone in an argument may feed your ego, but it'll still leave you hungry.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Rarely, if ever, does winning in communication lead to better things in your life. That's why I care enough about you to tell you the truth. Never win an argument. Whether it's an argument, a heated discussion, or a slight friction in conversation, your goal isn't to win. It's to unravel. Start at the loose ends until you understand the heart of it. There, you'll find the knot.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
This is a book of knots. The hard stuff and social relationships that, admit it, you'd rather skip over. Untying cross wires takes time, takes emotion, takes effort. That's what conflict and communication represents, a struggle. An argument is a window into another person's struggle. In every difficult conversation, there's a moment when someone, whether it's you or the other person, hits a snag.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Maybe you don't understand what they're trying to say. Maybe you're in a bad mood. Maybe you just disagree. It's not the clash of opinions. It's the clash of worlds, of the very way you see things. Behind every harsh and uncut word, there's a backstory, a why.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And if you can find the discipline to get to that, if you can peel back the layers of the argument to discern the struggle, the fear, or the hope hiding underneath, that's where real communication begins. Because at the end of the day, it's not about the argument.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's about seeing through the keyhole into another person's world and realizing that maybe, just maybe, the win you thought you wanted isn't what you needed after all. The Challenge to Accept Now, most people understand that success comes from seeing failure not as a setback, but as a stepping stone. Embracing failure is part of the process. You learn from your mistakes to grow stronger.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As part of the case, I needed to depose Bobby LaPre, a witness to the events. In a deposition, I get the chance to ask people questions under oath, typically to learn what they know before they testify at trial. Clockwise around the antique conference room table sat the court reporter writing everything down, Bobby LaPre, the opposing attorney, and me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Failures to communicate, as in disagreements and arguments, they do the same thing. They lead to success because they reveal areas of improvement, offering insights into how you can enrich your interactions. The bigger the conversation, the bigger the need to handle the conflict effectively. And when done right, conflict isn't a fight. It's an opportunity.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's a catalyst for real, meaningful connection. If, and that's if, you're willing to see it. What life experiences have shaped how you see conflict? When you were a kid, defiantly shouting no or bombarding adults with why was your way of figuring things out, cause and effect.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As a teenager, those simple childhood reactions turned into more complicated questions about finding your place and your identity apart from your family. The clothes you wore, the music you listened to, even the clique you hung around were all statements of who you wanted to be.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Stepping into adulthood, disagreements became less about asserting individuality and more about coexisting with other people. Your conversations turned to topics like children, career paths, and mortgages. Or in my case, what vacuum to buy and whether that piece of furniture I found in my parents' garage still had good bones. As an adult, the stakes change.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Your responsibilities grow as you have to think collectively, now responsible for people other than yourself, such as aging parents or your own children. You take interest in broader issues like politics, news, and global affairs. Despite your age, things may feel even more uncertain. When that happens, you tend to fall back to what you know.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
your lived experiences, and the behaviors modeled for you growing up. I want you to ask yourself right now, how did watching arguments in my childhood influence the way that I argue now?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
If yelling and aggression were the go-to method for conflict in your home growing up, you might find yourself thinking that's just how things are done, even if you know it's not the best way to get your point across.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
On the flip side, if you came from a place where everyone tiptoed around disagreements to save face or avoided conversations out of fear of what the neighbors might think, diving headfirst into an argument might make you feel uncomfortable, to say the least. Take this one time I stayed over at a friend's house during the summer as a kid.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
His parents got into a massive shouting match right in front of us, door slamming the works. I remember being absolutely mortified. I grew up with parents who kept their arguments pretty private, either hashing things out in their room or waiting until we were asleep. So seeing his parents go at it I was positive that a divorce was unfolding before my eyes. But my friend? He didn't even blink.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
To him, it was just a typical Tuesday night. Looking back, maybe you're not thrilled with how conflict was handled around you. Maybe you even have bad memories of seeing arguments bring out the worst in the people you loved. Maybe you've caught yourself echoing their words or mirroring their actions, even in the little things, like how you move your hand or the tone of your voice.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
You've gotten to a point in your life where you're beginning to realize that what you observed wasn't that healthy. And you can't help but wonder, would things have gone easier for you in your own life if you'd seen better ways to deal with conflict? If that's you, then I'm asking you now to take on the challenge and break the cycle.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
After asking Bobby to raise his right hand and placing him under oath, the court reporter gave me her customary nod for me to begin. I asked Bobby LaPre routine questions about his background and what had led up to the fight. They were easy, open-ended questions like, what time did you arrive? Who did you talk to first? Did you see so-and-so or do this and that?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Stop seeing arguments as something to win, but as an opportunity to understand the person behind the words. Stop hearing only what's said and start hearing what's felt. Build the discipline to connect to the person in front of you. Embrace the failures to communicate and learn from them.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Reach success by using each misstep as a stepping stone and make room for more positive and real in your life, like a bear hug from a man who until recently wanted to shop put you. Now, it's highly likely that the themes and the lessons ahead won't be anything new to you. You know you should speak with confidence and control your emotions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
You know you should avoid getting defensive and stand up for yourself. The question you have is, yes, but what does that look like? Well, it starts with what you say next. Chapter Summary The person you see isn't the person you're talking to. Every person has a surface and a depth. Often, the emotions you hear in someone's voice are not bids for disagreement, but bids for connection.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Don't buy into the lie that you need to win an argument. When you seek to win, you tend to lose much more, like their trust or respect. Instead, view arguments as a window into another person's struggle. Conflict can be a catalyst for positive changes in your life. To harness it, you have to be willing to connect with the person opposite you.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Turning your conflicts into connections paves the way for a more fulfilling, meaningful life. All you need is in what you say next.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's common to use such questions to build a chronology of the events from a witness's particular point of view. At all times, I made sure I was kind and polite. 90% because that's my personality. And I'd be lying if it wasn't 10% out of just sheer self-preservation. He was not someone I wanted to upset.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I did four days in New York, did New Jersey, and now I'm here in North Carolina and going to continue on doing it. I wanted to give you, my listeners, an exclusive treat. I want to give you a full listen to chapter one from the audiobook read by me. Now, this chapter sets the tone for everything the book is about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
But no matter how many softball questions I asked, Bobby LaPre was becoming increasingly agitated. I'd seen it enough times in my experience to know. His eyebrows began furrowing with each answer, a sign of negative emotion. His breathing got heavier as he switched from exhaling through his nose to exhaling through his mouth, a sign of increased stress.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He started wringing his massive hands together as he spoke, a sign of anxiety. It didn't matter what I did. It seemed as if just my entire existence in the room offended him. I could sense the tension around the table heightening the more displeased Bobby LaPre looked, like I was blowing up a balloon and it was about to pop. Finally, I asked him, Mr. LaPre, would you like a break?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
The room went silent. No, Bobby LaPre said, clearing his throat, but I got something to say. his words rang out louder than necessary. So much so that the court reporter jumped. I quickly glanced at the other attorney who couldn't have been younger than 65. He looked more nervous than I was.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
When we locked eyes, he gave me a wide-eyed look and slowly shook his head as if to say, if this goes south, you're on your own. I turned back to look at my witness. Yes, sir, I inquired. Bobby LaPre took a big breath in and said, You can cut all this buddy-buddy stuff. Except he didn't say stuff. You lawyers, you're the worst thing to happen to America, he continued. All you do is lie.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He slammed his hand down on the table, then drew it upward with a pointed finger at me, saying, So go on and ask me your stupid questions. Just know, I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. I'm telling you, lawyers, you're the worst thing to happen to this country, he repeated. The court reporter gave an anxious look. At that moment, a hundred thoughts raced through my mind.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
First, I'm well accustomed to the derogatory stereotype of attorneys, especially personal injury attorneys. I try very hard to work against it, though it's a reputation that some attorneys, frankly, rightly deserve. So a put-down joke or a snide remark about my profession is nothing new. I understood. Second, I didn't blame him for not trusting me.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
helping you navigate tough conversations with confidence, clarity, and of course, connection. If you enjoy what you hear, I'd love for you to check out the rest of the audiobook or grab a copy of my book. You can find it wherever books or audiobooks are sold, and you can head to thenextconversation.com, and it'll be down there in the show notes for all the details.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Not because I was trying to mislead him, but because to his mind, I represented all the bad things he ever thought he knew or had heard of about the law, lawyers, or the system. Of course, he had no reason to trust me. I understood. It was the stupid questions that got me. Now, I know good and well that I do many, many stupid things every day. But what I don't do is ask stupid questions.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
In that instant, a wave of anger surged through me. I felt my whole body go tense. My ears got hot as I shifted my weight in my seat. I could sense that I was becoming defensive. My questions up to that point had barely scratched the surface. Nothing about them had been difficult or even uncomfortable. Stupid? I'll show him stupid, I thought.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I felt myself wanting to come back with quips about his size in relation to his intelligence. Just a few well-placed cutting words and I'd best him. I tried to tell myself that his reaction was all I needed to know about who he truly was. But I'd been wrong before. When I was in third grade, my school started a reading buddy program, pairing strong readers with those who hadn't learned yet.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
That's how I got paired with Evan. Twice a week, we'd sit on beanbags during our library period. I'd listen as he would struggle to read aloud books like Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See? by Bill Martin Jr. Evan was physically much bigger than I was. Back then, I had a hard time understanding how he was so big but couldn't read.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
When he'd come across a word that he didn't know, my job was to help him sound it out. But he still struggled. So I figured out ways to explain things to him differently, like associating words with memorable phrases or creating metaphors on the fly with whatever was near us in the room. I got really good at crafting little tricks that engaged Evan's interests, making harder ideas more memorable.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Sometimes we'd do our reading sessions during our lunch period. While I'd pull out my lunch in a brown bag with a handwritten smiley face on it that my mama had made me that day, I'd watch as a teacher would bring him a tray from the cafeteria. Evan's mama didn't make his lunch. I began to notice that his clothes never seemed to fit him, like they were three sizes too big.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Once, when we were going over throw, through, and through, T-H-R-O-U-G-H, I tried to help by relating it to how he'd throw a baseball to his dad. Evan flatly replied, I don't know who my dad is. I vividly remember feeling as though I couldn't move my mouth. I was speechless. My heart broke for him. I'd later learned that Evan had been living with his grandparents.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Now, let's dive into chapter one of The Next Conversation. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed writing it and reading it. Chapter 1. Never Win an Argument I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, he bellowed. In all honesty, it was a compliment. He could have thrown me pretty far.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
His dad had left shortly after he was born. His mom was in jail. But in third grade, I had no grasp of his reality, no clue about the true struggles he was facing. With two loving parents who would read and tell me stories at night, I knew then that he was living in a world I knew nothing about.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As we continued over that fall semester and into the next year, Evan's reading level improved with each session until he was reading all on his own. I couldn't have been prouder. Exposure to Evan's inner struggles was another defining moment in my life at a very early age. And it was a lesson I've never forgotten. Zinging a put-down at ten-foot-tall Bobby LaPre wouldn't help anything.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It would only hurt, if not the deposition, then most definitely my face. And besides, my client's case needed this information. Put it down, Jefferson, I said to myself. I let out a long, silent breath through my nose. As I dropped the tension in my shoulders, my thoughts of retaliation faded. What I became more curious about, however, was the disproportionality of Bobby's reaction.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Anytime someone takes a level one conversation and jumps it up to a level 10, it's telling. And what it tells you is that there's another conversation happening inside that person's head that you weren't invited to. something hidden that has taken over their filter and is now driving their reactions. You're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. What else is at play? Who am I really talking to?
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I intended to find out. Having let about 10 seconds pass from his last words, lawyers are the worst thing to happen to America, I gave a soft smile. and said slowly, well, maybe you're right. I waited another 10 seconds as I sat back in my chair and moved my gaze around the room. When I was ready, I leaned forward, put my forearms on the table.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Tell me, please, what's been your biggest struggle this year? I asked. Bobby Lepre's eyes looked up to meet mine. Say what? He scoffed. I repeated. What's been your biggest struggle, personal struggle, this year? At that question, Bobby Lepre slowly dropped all emotion from his face. He got very still. I stayed quiet while his eyes seemed to search for the words.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And after a while, he finally spoke. His words stumbled out, choppy and hesitant, like he was embarrassed to even mention it. I, uh... I had to put my mother in an assisted living facility last month. My, uh... My dad is long past, and my brother moves around a lot as a roughneck, so... I'm the only one, the only one here to really help her.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
It's a lot of paperwork and legal stuff I don't understand. Unlike the Bobby LaPre who had angrily run me up one side and down the other not two minutes ago, this Bobby LaPre was different. When he talked, he looked defeated. He looked scared. And somehow, he looked small. Letting his words sink in, a few seconds later, I responded gently, I'm sorry, I can't imagine what that's like.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
In his tan coveralls with a white oval patch that had Lepre embroidered in black in the upper left pocket, Bobby Lepre glared at me with enough heat to burn a hole through my suit jacket. Now, generally, I don't know what someone looks like before I meet them at their deposition. And whatever I picture Bobby LaPre looking like, it wasn't this.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He nodded slightly with pressed lips. But what I can tell you is, making sure to catch his eye, you're a good son. Immediately, Bobby LaPre threw his face down to keep me from seeing it. His huge shoulders shook. And like ice melting off a rock, big, bad Bobby LaPre began to cry. I quickly told the court reporter to go off the record for a break. It's okay, I reassured him.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
I'm just going to sit here with you. And through tears, Bobby LaPre poured out all his fears over his mother's health. He told me about the intimidating letters threatening to foreclose his mother's house that he'd been receiving from none other than lawyers. He shared how the banks and the government were asking him for things he didn't understand. He felt helpless.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
He wished his father was still alive. and my heart broke for him. He was living in a world I knew nothing about. I thought of Evan. Bobby LaPre had been holding the weight of it all by himself. For nearly 20 minutes, we sat there as he let it all out. With his attorney's permission, I asked for Bobby LaPre's email address.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And sitting there, I cc'd him on an email from my phone to a local colleague who handled elder law and estate planning. She replied minutes later, happily agreeing to set up a meeting with Bobby LaPre the next Monday. Thank you, he told me. absolutely i said you good i asked he took a big sniff wiped his nose with his sleeve and sat up yeah he answered with a weak grin i'm ready
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
And for the rest of the deposition, I spoke to the real Bobby LaPre. His answers were direct and forthcoming. His words were more lighthearted. He became more animated, even cracked a few jokes. He no longer looked like he was ready to launch me into oblivion. All done, I said finally. That's all the questions I have. Thank you for your time.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
As we stood up, I walked toward the door and stuck out my hand. I braced for another painful death grip. Instead, at the last second, Bobby LaPre opened up his arms and bear-hugged me. All I could do was smile and say, Be good. I didn't look, but I'm fairly sure my feet weren't touching the ground. The Person You See I've had countless interactions like that one throughout my whole life.
The Jefferson Fisher Podcast
Bonus Episode: Chapter 1 from The Next Conversation
Sometimes the other person is the Bobby LaPre. Other times, I'm the Bobby LaPre. But why does it happen? How is it that by dropping the idea of winning an argument, you actually get more of what you want? What is it about connecting to the other person that gives you the high ground? And how can you tap into that strength in your own communication?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that made them feel that he could make time for friends who cared.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Is this something we have to agree on? So a tip that I use is, is this something we have to agree on? Usually it's not. That stops arguments. It doesn't matter what the topic is. If you need to, you find that you're yanging over the small stuff, the little things, that often leads to the biggest arguments. You're getting these big arguments that go, what are we even, how did this even start?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
How do we even get here? Often you can put all that to rest when you just even ask, is this something we have to agree on? If it is, you can ask again, is this something we have to agree on right now? So there's a timing element too, because often people push arguments on you when you're not ready. They'll push conversation on you when you're not ready. You got five minutes?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
What they really mean is, hey, do you have about 48 minutes for me to tell you about something that you have no time for and your brain's locked into something else? And so they often push their own timing on you. So part of that standing up for yourself is defending your own time parameter.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Sure. So let's say you and I are choosing, let's say the best detergent. Okay. That's just the first thing that came to mind.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that's what happens. Typically, your biggest arguments stem from the smallest little inconvenience, especially if you're married.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Exactly. Is this something we have to agree on at this moment, right now? And they go, no.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, but in that moment, if you're not thinking about it, you start getting worked up.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
If the automatic feeling within you is no, then the answer is no, you don't. It's setting it later. I don't right now. Can we schedule this for tomorrow? What's your next week look like? Find ways to push it out because what you'll find is that five minutes they needed right then, that issue gets solved without you. They didn't really need it. They just came to talk.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There are phrases, let's say, to help pull down defensiveness. Because often when I say something, the tendency, the default is for somebody to get defensive. And that's natural. It's biological. It's your body going, oh, I perceive a threat. I'm going to send it right back. That's what fight or flight is in that element. The fight is I will throw hard words at you. I want words to hurt you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Or if you're... Running from it, it's I got to get out of here, slam the door. I got to hang up, finding different ways to deescalate situations. And what I like to tell them is you tell them what you learned. So after listening to you, I learned that this topic is important to you. Or you tell them that they've been helpful. That's helpful to know. Simple as that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Or you tell them what you agree on using the word agree. That does not mean you have to agree with what they said. It just means they just need to hear that word. In other words, instead of focusing on the content of that conversation, it is, I agree that this is something we need to talk about. I think I agree that this is a conversation worth having. Boom.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Like that right there, all of a sudden pulls down their defensiveness. They heard the word, I agree. They heard that this conversation is worth talking about. Great. They don't have to continue to push and feel defensive about it. They don't have to keep proving to you on something.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Exactly. And if you need to like shift away from that, the, is this something we need to agree on? I like, I could do better. I like, maybe so, maybe you're right. Those are two that I use often. If I ever get an insult, maybe a rude comment in the litigation world, someone makes some kind of offhand comment. I say, well, maybe you're right. Maybe so. Who am I to say?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It's that element of I get to control entirely what you say. Is that going to affect me or not? I have entire control over that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, especially if you always pick it up and carry it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So when it comes to taking things personally, for example, a quick tool for that is what I tell myself is I'll just say, put it down, Jefferson. Okay. When I'm taking things personally, I'm picking up what nobody has asked me to carry. I'm choosing to carry it. And before I know it, I can't even carry it anymore.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And to me, how often you take things personally is a direct reflection of how much grace you give other people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Meaning if you never give somebody the benefit of the doubt, it's heavy. It's a heavy proposition if you never give somebody the benefit of the doubt instead of just waiting to see if truly that offhand look meant to say something to you. We recognize it as that. I thought you were mad at me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah. Somebody, you pass by somebody in the hallway and they didn't say hello. Oh, they must be mad at me. No, they were just focusing on other things in their life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
When somebody is belittling you or giving you an insult and that hurtful comment, you make them repeat it. Because what they're hoping to do in that belittling comment is get that reaction out of you. And instead, you find a way to take all the fun out of it. So when you ask them to repeat what they said, you're not giving them that hit of dopamine that they're expecting from your reaction.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They're not getting that response time from you. Instead, you're delaying that gratification for them. Then it's just not worth it. Then it's just not fun. And so when you ask them to repeat it, to say, I need you to say that again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Thank you for having me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Like you just said right there, you're still single. I need you to repeat that. Yeah. So exactly. I'm not going to want to say that again because now that spotlight is on me. And then also what you lead up with that is you ask questions of intent. For example, did you say that to hurt me? And now it's this mirror that they feel like, why did I say that? Oh, okay. And then they start to backtrack.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Then you don't have to say anything. But if often I can just repeat what they said. So if somebody says to you, oh, so you're still single? I need you to say that again. Most likely they're not going to say that again. But if they do, then you can even repeat what they said. I'm still single. That's what you asked me? And all of a sudden they realize, this isn't fun.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Thank you very much. I'm very proud of it. Very excited to help a lot of people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They're not going to ask that kind of thing again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Or you just ask that question of, did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to offend me? Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. What I meant was, and all of a sudden they're backing away because they know you're going to stand your ground.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, exactly. Are you trying to insinuate something? Are you trying to say something that you're not wanting to tell me?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It's that mirror.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so it takes away the power of their insult.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
When you can take all the fun out of it, you take all the oxygen out of their room and they realize that they're not going to be able to control you with that reaction that they were hoping to get from you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
A lot of silence. So often if you just wait 10 seconds, you're going to add distance between what they said and how you're going to respond. And that makes it very clear. Because what they're wanting when somebody's disrespectful is the same way with belittling. They're wanting a reaction. They're saying this to get something out of you. Because in that moment, they're feeling something.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Whether it's a fear, an insecurity, whatever it is, you're understanding you're not going to You're not going to deliver on that same plane that they are. You're not going to be on that same level. So if somebody says something disrespectful, you give enough silence to make sure that it's a little awkward.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And then you're going to say something to the effect of, that's below my standard for a response. And then all of a sudden they feel like the dynamic has been flipped. That's below my standard of respect. Something as simple as that. All of a sudden you're now making it clear that what you just said was beneath me. And I don't respond to things that are beneath me in that way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so now you're taking control of it. Now you're leaning into it. What they thought was meant as a disrespect, they're now understanding that they're in the wrong place.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Depends how your relationship is with that person. I would advise that whoever they're disrespecting, you don't join in it and you make it clear that that is not your behavior. So you're going to be a person that is kind to this person. I've had it before. My grandfather came with me to Walmart. It was a terrible time. He was in a bad mood and he was crotchety to everybody we talked to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
But I was the one that was... Thank you so much for helping us. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Being overly, hey, I understand. Thank you. Making that eye contact with this other person. This other person's not having a good time. And then you have that conversation. I had to have that conversation with my grandfather.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I had to put a boundary, a very firm boundary of, if this is the way you're going to talk to people, I can't come with you. If you don't change the tone in which you're talking to people, Papa, I can't. I can't come. And so it very was, what am I saying? You're not being respectful to people. Yes, I am. I would not be telling you this if you had been respectful to people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And it's just having this conversation where they need to, it's the people you love and often you have to be their biggest mirror of protecting them also for how other people see them. And so I love my grandfather. I want other people to love him. And that means I also have to make sure that I need to put, I need to prepare him in a loving way of being very direct.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
This is how you're talking to people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
We also just don't go to Walmart.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
My breath. It is crazy to me how your body controls what you say. Like when you are feeling threatened, maybe you say something that challenges my credibility or I feel undermined. My body says, I feel threatened about this. There is a threat. I need to do something, either defend myself or get out of that situation. And when it turns to the fight... I will hold my breath. Why?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They're going to experience a sense of control in knowing who they are and who they want to be. And by that, I mean, they will have a sense of control. They can stand their ground in that next conversation. They can handle that difficult, toxic person in their next conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Because your muscles are getting tight. They're ready to react. Your shoulders go tense. You feel it in your ears. So that's why if you're not breathing, you will say things that are louder. You will yell because you're trying to make the threat go away.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
But if you breathe, or I say a conversational breath, you take that, let your breath be the first word that you say, then you're going to have a lot more control over what you're going to say next. So in terms of regulating my emotions, it is simply knowing that I can't control anything that they do or say, but I'm the one that can control everything. Silence can never be misquoted.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So it is often a lot stronger to say nothing at all than to send that one little thing that you think is going to win it. Because if you think you can win an argument, you don't win anything, Mel. You just, you lose your credibility. You've lost that connection. I mean, what have you got? Now it's just, you want awkward silence between the two of you?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You still have to possibly work with this person, live with this person, You've now just made it really awkward for the next few days before you make up. So you find ways to always just kind of control your breath and your shoulders.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
No, you're putting them down. Often when you have your shoulders next to your ears, it's tension, makes you cranky.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yes, absolutely. The first thing about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it, because not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for. It's that understanding of, I will engage this in conversation when I believe it is worth my time and effort into this conversation. You don't have to attend every argument that you're invited to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so it is this knowing of, I can RSVP, no, I can politely decline. I don't have to attend if I don't want to. We've all been in those meetings where the person who says everything in the meeting is often the person who knows the least.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And even more so, they'll be able to navigate who they want to be and where they want to go in their life simply by the words that they say next.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It's the person who's least in the know of what's happening in the heart of that company versus the person who says less is often the person who's the most confident because confidence is very quiet. Insecurities are very loud.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There is one simple phrase that I use that whoever's listening can use over and over. I see things differently or I remember things differently, period. And you can say that phrase as often as you need it. Somebody wants to come at you and they're gaslighting and trying to challenge your truth. I remember things differently. Period. They want to do it again because you're not going with them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I remember things differently. In my world, people who are trying to gaslight are trying to be the laser and you the cat. They're just trying to make you go certain directions everywhere but the truth. To avoid gaslighting, you just need to stand still and stand firm. I remember things differently. Period.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
That often will do everything that they don't want you to do because it's just not giving them the power. You feel like just because they dug a hole, you have to fill it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Certainly one, you could easily say, I tend to have another approach. I think differently about that. It's okay to say, I don't have an opinion. Or if I had an opinion, I give it. That's pretty easy of, I don't know enough about that. I'm not really sure. Finding ways of just being what I like to call the wet blanket.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Well, that goes to your personality. There's nothing wrong with that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, I made it difficult because I never gave them an enemy. So I never gave them somebody I did not like. Same way for a jury. As long as the jury likes you, you're 90% there.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I like to call it being in the pocket.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Well, and I'm a musician. Oh, really? Yeah. I play drums.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I play several instruments.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I did. Yeah. I had the whole like, yeah, I've been in multiple bands. There's a whole thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Exactly. Yeah. And it's this idea of when you're in the groove and everybody's bouncing their head, it sounds great. You're not lagging. You're not loud and forceful. You're not calling attention to yourself. You're just in the pocket. I know I don't have to do anything crazy. I just stay right in rhythm with the conversation. There is a strength to being the peacekeeper.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There is a strength to being the calm mind. That does not mean you can't kick back and have fun. It doesn't mean that you're just the wet blanket on every social situation. But when it comes to difficult people, when it comes to real conflict in your life, instead of choosing to say, this is a difficult person, It's just a difficult problem for the two of you to discuss.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And if you can get their help with it, if you can understand that they're grumpy because of something that somebody texted them this morning and they were feeling it before they even entered the room, that the problem is not you, instead of taking it so personally and just seeing the problem for what it is, you're going to come away knowing that you have all the control in that situation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that's a really empowering thought.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There's an initial mindset you need to have, and that is know when you're in their game. It's a game of either praise or provoke. If you're not filling them with praise, then they will turn to provoke and start an argument because it gives them the same amount of satisfaction. They delight in your anger as much as they delight in your praise. It is that sense of control that they have.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So know first when you are on the board. and you are playing their game.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So number one is you don't have to play that game.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You do that by two, adding as much distance as you can. Don't feel like you need to have this rapid fire text exchange. They text, respond the next day. You need to wait. Most people, maybe they need to be reminded there's not some kind of stop clock on text exchanges, you're required to respond. There's no delay of game.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You get to choose when you respond and you're gonna do it when, when you're ready. I'll respond to you when I've calmed down. I'll respond when I'm ready. You find ways to distance the emotional reaction that you could have. You also wanna stay neutral. And that means you say very boring things. Like, I understand. Noted. Good to know. Got it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
These short little things that are going to give them nothing to feed on. Because if you think you're going to solve all your problems in giving them that paragraph of a text, and you think you really just gave them a hundred words of pure amazingness that's going to shut them down and change your life, you're kidding yourself.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Because what they'll do is just pick out one word from that paragraph and twist it into and not acknowledge anything that you said. So less is always better when it comes to communicating with those type of behaviors and tendencies.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Well, I don't think there's a better way to approach the, are you thinking about something? It's this idea that whatever they say, you need to be a safe space for. Because I always want to be the person that my kids can come to with problems.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And if I teach them that when you come to me and you're hurting or you're in a bad mood and you're grumpy and I don't like that and I don't accept that and I don't want that, when you're in trouble, don't come to me. You're not a safe space for that. They'll go be real somewhere else. I can be grumpy. I mean, I can be in a bad mood.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And so often you have to remember that when you're talking to somebody that's a spouse or a kid and they are grumpy and you poke that bear, they should be in the safest space of their life to be able to tell you, the person who loves them, how they're feeling genuinely, authentically.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
If it's somebody who you don't know that well, you probably don't want to ask that question, but you might want to say, how are you feeling? But I'd be careful on assuming that they're feeling a certain way. Now, if we want to tweet this and say, what if somebody sends you something that's rude? Like a rude comment. You read an email and it's rude.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
The kind of thing that you're like, I can't believe this. Can you believe that somebody would send this? Hey, so-and-so, come here. Look at this. You see what they read? Can you believe that? It's the, did you mean? Did you mean to sound rude? Did you mean for that to sound disrespectful? The did you mean is always a great tweak and you can use that as well. Did you mean? Did you mean?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Did you mean for that to sound so harsh?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yes, I did. Yeah, I did. But it really does help. Anytime you find something that we use this a lot is that, did you mean for that to sound short? You get that text. I do that even with my dad because my dad's like the one word texter. So I have to say, did you mean for that to sound short? There's some people that you just shouldn't text with or email. Just pick them up and call them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
There's people that you're like, oh, they send the rudest email, but when you talk on the phone, they're so pleasant. You just know that's not their best mode of communication.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, believe it. There's a sense that goes to who you are, just your philosophy on life. And I believe that most people are good. They want to do good. And there are people in this world that are truly hurting. And they came in hurting long before they met me. And so there are certain things that... I know I could say that could be a trigger for somebody that I know nothing about.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And I don't know why it's a trigger. I don't know their childhood. I don't know that one thing that they're insecure about. You ever said something and you said something about their job. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, well, you think your job's better than mine? What you're hearing is just insecurity. That's what you're hearing. So you have to find the way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
My dad would tell me the issue that they're giving you is not the real issue. Meaning there's always something that's layered underneath that. And you just have to be curious enough and patient enough to find out.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I'm going to tell people that when you, the next time you are in a difficult conversation with people, number one, I want you to say what you have to say with control. It means you're going to control your breath, control your volume, control your body, and understand you don't have to say anything that you don't want to say. Two, I want them to say and speak with confidence.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
It means using an assertive voice that doesn't give over apologies that mean nothing or say, I hate to bother you when it means nothing at all. And three, I want them to say things to connect. In other words, say what you mean and mean what you say. If you need to deliver bad news, deliver it. If you need to give a compliment, give it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And at the end of the day, they need to follow their heart and be true.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Let's say the best detergent. Okay. I don't know. That's just the first thing that came to mind.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Pause somebody. Pause for a second.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Thanks, Mel.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I love that. Well, this is something you know very well about. That is, these difficult personalities, when you talk to them, it's often, they're only difficult because they have a fear, an insecurity, a need. So instead of seeing it as a conflict, you see it as a bid for connection. They're wanting to feel like they can be heard, that they're important.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
What they say is somebody can acknowledge and care about it. versus always having a poke and pride. So when I'm cross-examining somebody, a lot of these techniques that I use has to do with, one, I understand that just because I say something doesn't mean I have to swing at it. Just because they throw a ball doesn't mean I have to swing. You just let the pitch go by.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Nobody can make me say anything that I don't want to say. The same way I don't have to respond even if they send a zinger at me. So there's that sense of control of, yeah, you can say what you need to say. That doesn't mean I need to say what I want to say. So there's this confidence that you can have from questioning people in the courtroom.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Another would be understanding that that conflict, that argument is simply a window into another person's struggle. when I'm representing a client and you're representing another client, a lot of the time, it's a weird occupation though, if you think about it. People hire me to have beef with somebody I don't have beef with.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And then what makes it even harder is they hire somebody to have beef with me. So when you're arguing with that opposing attorney, He and I or she and I, we don't have any problems, really. We're just taking on the problems of somebody else. And you can't, arguments aren't something to win, and especially in the courtroom, you just give the evidence and the facts a voice.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You advocate for those facts under the given law. So it's very different in that sense, but the same rules apply, that the less you say, the more powerful you sound. The more confident you express yourself, the more you seem more confident in yourself. So it's these little tips that I like to give from the courtroom that help me understand that difficult people are just people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
We can all be difficult.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, it is that mindset. If you go into it knowing or telling and convincing yourself that this person is difficult, all of a sudden you've made it difficult for you. What's to stop you from thinking this person is somebody I need to make sure I listen to? Sometimes the goal is too high. If your goal is they need to believe everything that I say, they need to do everything that I do.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
You're never going to get that. Instead, if you can go into the conversation with a much smaller goal, like I want to make sure that they understand me. I want to make sure that I understand them. I want to make sure that I listen to them without interrupting. I want to make sure that I listen to the end of their sentences. That's very rare for people to listen to the end of somebody's sentence.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
So you find that often when it's a difficult conversation, you're the one that's called it difficult. You're the one who's... made it difficult from the outset for yourself. You haven't had the conversation yet. You might know that person to be tend to have personalities or behaviors that can be seen objectively as difficult.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
But often when you hear that person say, you don't listen to me, what they're saying on the inside is, I want to feel heard. I want you to connect with me. I want to be understood.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They come in hot and heavy like that. Nobody ever listens to me. Well, then you're going to be the opposite of that. I mean, you're going to pose questions for them. I mean, for example, that never, that's one word that's an extreme you're going to attach to. I never listen to you. I want to make sure I understand that. I never listen to you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Typically, they'll draw back from that because then you use an extreme. They know you have to listen to them. Then you go pull it another layer. All right. Is it that you feel that I never listen to you? Or is it that I actually objectively never listen? You go it again. Okay, so you feel like I don't listen to that. Well, let's talk about it. Let's keep going. It's helpful to know. I'm here.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
I'm listening. I'd like to change that. You just find ways to go at it again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Yeah, it's powerful stuff. If you can, anytime when somebody is going super high, they're yelling, you go even slower. You will lower your voice because then you're the one who sounds calm and in control. And they're the one that seems like they're on the extremes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Their voice and their brain and their ear will hear that and they'll start to lower it because they don't like to be out in the extremes. So they'll start to slow themselves down. What I teach my clients is that the person that you see is often not the person you're talking to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And what I mean by that is I've had a client, not a client, but a witness that I was deposing and he was ugly with me and he was big and brash and didn't like any of the questions I was asking him. And I asked him the question, so what are you struggling with today? I said, let's just set aside the case. What are you struggling with right now?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And he went on to tell me about how he was having a hard time with his mother. He had just had to put her in a nursing home, assisted living. His father was passed away. His brother was out in the oil field. And he was the only one to take care of her. And he was just nervous about it. And he had been getting letters from attorneys. And so this big guy who was in front of me,
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Even though he was being ugly to me in that conversation, I knew that the person I saw was not the person I was talking to. You have that when every conversation you have, yeah, you see this person and they look mad and they look ugly, but who's the person you're talking to? It's the person behind the counter, the person who waits on you, the cashier.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
Every one of them is a chance to have connection with that person because who you talk to right then affects how they talk to everybody else. It's a ripple effect. How you talk to your kids affects how they're going to talk to their kids.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
How you talk to the person who takes your order, if you're rude to them, well, they're going to have a harder time talking to the people that they love when they go home. So it's a big circle of life in a way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And I can tell the listener right now the kind of power that they will have. What is it? So I've had people, one of the ones recently I had was there was a wife who emailed me and said, I had an argument with my husband last night and I used one of your phrases and that was to deescalate a conversation or argument. I could have done better.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
She said, without hesitation, he said to me, I could have done better too. She said, in our 18 years of marriage, he's never said that to me. There's little phrases that you can find to deescalate that. That's true power that you can have in a relationship. In terms of the ripple effect that they're true, you have a power to affect people you will never, ever meet.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And it's a wild thought, but it's true. I had somebody email me, this is probably two months ago, who said, I am somebody who helps with couples foster homes. And these parents were arguing, and I used one of your tips on how to communicate with them to get them to stop arguing and agree on something that will forever change their kids' lives. I'll never meet these kids. They'll never know me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
they will probably never know the guy who helped them and emailed me. But it's just little things of what you say today will truly change the future of other people you'll never, ever meet. People who have autism who can now make friends just by how you say certain things and how they can communicate. Everything about you can be compressed into what you say next, and it's a beautiful thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
They weren't sure exactly how to talk to their friends. They were always afraid that they were always left out of it. And so it was this mindset that I tell them is you just weren't supposed to be there and that's okay. You weren't supposed to be there. And that mindset, this father told me, helped his son understand if he wasn't invited, just meant he wasn't supposed to be there.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
How To Handle Difficult People & Take Back Your Peace and Power
And that he found different ways of going, well, this is where I need to be. And finding people who wanted to spend time with him, but he was feeling really hurt that he wasn't getting invited to that party or that thing. And so it's this mindset of that happens. It's okay. You just, you weren't meant to be there. You're meant to be somewhere else.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
I want you to imagine you're about to walk into somebody's office and there's gonna be that hard conversation in the room. And let's just say it's a topic of something that is, it's bad news. Put your mind wherever it is. And you walk in and somebody goes, so how are you? How are you lately? You've been good? Pickleball games, all right. Well, that's good. Well, your family's good?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Well, listen, hey, I have something that we've been talking about, and listen, I know it's not that big of a deal, and I want you to understand.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Exactly.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Because of that fear of the unknown, Mel, versus, let's say, the different scenario. Okay. You come in, say, thank you for meeting with me. Mel, I have bad news. You deliver that bad news. Versus, this isn't going to be a fun conversation. You say that. This isn't gonna be fun for us to talk about. This isn't my favorite conversation I have. You prepare them for it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Often you're afraid to disappoint people. And what that really is, is you don't believe that they have enough emotional resiliency to handle it. So you need to baby them, to tiptoe into the water instead of dipping right in. And people will admire you more. They will see you as somebody with more respect and more confidence every time when you say what you wanna say fully.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
When somebody is belittling you or giving you an insult, that hurtful comment, you make them say it again. Because what they're hoping to do in that belittling comment is get that reaction out of you. And instead, you find a way to take all the fun out of it. So when you ask them to repeat what they said, You're not giving them that hit of dopamine that they're expecting from your reaction.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
They're not getting that response time from you. Instead, you're delaying that gratification for them. Then it's just not worth it. Then it's just not fun. And so when you ask them to repeat it, to say, I need you to say that again.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Sure.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Like you just said right there, you're still single.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Yeah. So exactly. I'm not going to want to say that again because now that spotlight is on me. And then also what you lead up with that is you ask questions of intent. For example, did you say that to hurt me? And now it's this mirror that they feel like, why did I say that? Oh, okay. And then they start to backtrack. Then you don't have to say anything.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
So if somebody says to you, oh, so you're still single? I need you to say that again. most likely they're not going to say that again. But if they do, then you can even repeat what they said. I'm still single. That's what you asked me? And all of a sudden they realize this isn't fun. They're not going to ask that kind of thing again. Wow.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Top Expert Advice of the Year: The Best of the Mel Robbins Podcast
Or you just ask that question of, did you say that to embarrass me? Did you say that to offend me? Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. What I meant was, and all of a sudden they're backing away because they know you're going to stand your ground.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What I think was going to happen. Yeah. They're going to love me more. Exactly. This is all going to be wonderful. So whenever you try to win in an argument, what you really win is their contempt. You know, you win another awkward conversation. Congrats. You know, it's... You've won now awkward silence when you pass each other in the kitchen. Congratulations. That's the prize.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And so when you try to win a conversation, you lose the connection. You lose credibility and you lose their trust. And so that's not the point of an argument. It's something to unravel.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Often when I can immediately come out of the gate and say, you can either ask, is this an argument? They'll almost never say no. I mean, they'll almost always say no. They'll say, no, this is just a conversation.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
They'll flip it. Almost always they'll flip it. If you say, is this an argument? They don't want to have, nobody wants to admit they're having or stirring or stemming an argument. They'll say, no, no, I'm just, I'm trying to have a conversation with you. That's when you bring it down. All right, can we have a conversation with you? And now you're like slowly bringing them down in that moment.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So when you want to win-win, it is, one, you need to slow down the time. You can add distance between what they said and how you respond. Like some conversations, we're dealing with conversations that cost $100. That's a big conversation, but yet we're giving it time. a penny of our time. That's just not, you have an imbalance there.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Or when I'm trying to have a conversation with you on my timeframe, not yours. Hey, you got five minutes? I have this huge thing that's been on my mind for the last 12 hours and you haven't thought about it for a second. I want to talk about it right now. Ready? Go. You're not even at the same playing field when that happens. So the win-win is when you can balance out. Don't try to have...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
you're at 80% and I'm at 20% feeling my energy, and yet I'm still expecting you to show up and carry the load. That's no fair.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Getting exactly what they want? You know, one thing that you said in the first episode that I loved, Which I love that this is my second time here. So much has happened since the first time. That's crazy, man. What's the chance? Oh, that's so good. It is so good. It's so good. And I... Paul Evans taught me that like 15 years ago. It's such a good one.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And it's one I've definitely added to my list of just like, man, that's so... It's just asking if there could ever be the possibility of this to happen. I'm not trying to manipulate you. I'm not trying to do anything. And the thing is, people will find a way to do it. Another one that I love, again, this is Chris Foss. Once you find a collection of people, they're like, I love what they're doing.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I need a miracle.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I need a miracle. That's good. And I did that. I used this, I was at Target and we were shopping and I wanted ice cream so bad. So we got little big pints of ice cream, but there's no spoon. They didn't sell spoons. And so, but we passed the Starbucks at Target. And she was like, no, no, no. You need to buy some. It's my wife saying, you need to buy something before you need to steal that spoon.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
The spoons are back there. And so I went up and I was like, I need a miracle. She goes, well, I don't know what I can do for you. I said that, but I'll try. I said, I got ice cream, but no spoon. And she said, I got it right here. Answered in prayer and gave me two spoons. And that was just playful, but I need a miracle.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
People love to give more than you expect.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, just a little bitty thing.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Every time. And you're allowing the other person to rise up to, you know. Be a hero. Well, to fulfill that. I mean, they'll make them feel it's just it's a mutual sense of giving. It's the givers like you talked about. And the reason why What's the Chance works, too, is that it is easy to say without feeling like you're being oppressive. Easy to say because it's like, you know.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And it's not super direct. It's just a little bit left to center that allows it to feel okay.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, when you sound, when you have the voice of Chris Voss. So you're telling me you're powerless? Yeah, I'd probably go bury my head in the sand if you'd tell me that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, sir, this is Smoothie King.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, I could see that. And if you said it from like a playful place.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But shout out to Chris Voss.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
The formula that I teach is one, the apology. This is the, I'm sorry. This is the, I apologize. Two is acknowledging how they felt by it or how they would feel by it. That's as simple as I can understand why that's upsetting. I can see how that hurt you. I can see that that was thoughtless of me. So it's relating it. It's acknowledging the feeling.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What you're saying in that moment is how you feel is reasonable. How you reacted justified. That is extremely comforting to the other person. And lastly in three is the next step. The next time I'm going to get your permission before I do X, Y, and Z. Or I'm not going to bring this up again. I'm not going to bring that topic, that sensitive trigger, whatever it is, up again. Or now I know.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's showing that there's a future remedy that's been in place. That this isn't going to be continuing. We've all been in those situations where somebody has apologized, but you know, they're going to do it again. They've apologized, best intentions, it's still going to fall into the same trap.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And so it's just the apology, plain, genuine, authentic, understanding their emotion and finding acknowledgement in that. And then the future step. Those help you in many ways, right? Send the right apology. What you can't do is what we talk about in assertive statements in the book is adding the word but.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
If you say, I'm sorry, but you did this to me, or I'm sorry, but you said, you just, anything that came before the word but, you just eliminated, you deleted it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Do you feel powerless? Is that what you're saying?
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I can't wait for this.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It actually is better.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, what you might want to do is instead of including in the same sentence, you need to put a period, enter, enter, enter, enter, tab, then begin that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, then begin that next line. Exactly. Not in the middle of it. Yeah, but the worst is the people who add the bad apologies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the kind of stuff that can just...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Don't let a single bad apology slide under your door. When somebody says, well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm sorry that you feel that way. Don't apologize for my feelings. Apologize for what you said. Apologize for what you did. It's that... Don't feel sorry for how I feel. I got those. Those are my feelings, not yours. I need you to apologize for what you said.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So it's taking ownership of that. When they say, well, I'm sorry if I upset you. It's the response of, it's not if, it's that. I mean, you're having to correct them because that's what it takes, is a continued correction of people that understand that they don't want to apologize, so they're going to deflect. People who, a toxic apology that's kind of like, well, I'm sorry, I'm such a bad friend.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I'm sorry I'm such a horrible mother.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
No, because they know what they're wanting from you in that moment is, oh, you're not that terrible. That's not what I said. Oh, yes, you did. You always do. And they're trying to take you down that They're trying to blame you. They're trying to pull you down. And all of a sudden now you, you need to apologize. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And instead it's just the, the key is the understanding of what they're doing, adding distance and saying, I'll accept an apology. Like just clean, simple. I'll accept an apology and understanding what they said is not one. So it's understanding that definition. Here's the challenge, I guess.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, there are definitely those that use apologies to manipulate. They use sometimes crying to manipulate. They know... I mean, my seven-year-old daughter, she knew when she was two. She started crying, like...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And she probably got what she want. Like, you know, so, um, it's, it is a easy trap to fall into. And somebody has thin skin. You go, God, look, I didn't, it really didn't do anything. Here are my thoughts. One, you can't be the judge if what you did was truly nothing. So that's a hard road to hoe is what my grandfather would say. You gotta be careful with it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Two, if it becomes a continued habit where this person is always the victim, always everybody's against her, everybody's against him, the world is never, those are the type of people you just need to get your hands, stiff arms slowly away from your inner circle Add distance between them because there are people that at that point, it is a control tactic that is going to start to wear you down.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So you got to, oh, it's draining. People that are just emotional sand traps that they just, they, it's always the you nevers, you always, and you go, we've already been through this. I apologize for that when it happened three years ago. So it's a careful line to walk. But my advice is you need to start to distance yourself from those people.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Now, if you really did something, of course, own up to that. And some people are just more sensitive to others in that way. But it's case by case.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
a long time being caught in this emotional sand trap it's addictive and it's just like yeah okay we make up and we're better for a couple weeks but then if i'm not getting the attention what i'm going to make you wrong for something and apologize and come give me that attention again and it's just this cycle and i had friends that um you know were with somebody who was like that and they found that they kind of secretly got some fulfillment out of always being the fixer always being the the crutch and it
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Most likely, I'm not a therapist, but probably started from their childhood of how they did that with their parents or somebody in their life that they were always having to be there as the crutch and the scapegoat for everything. But it is a position of
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
truly to bring it full circle powerlessness, you know, to, to feel like every time they're, they're taking it away from me and I can't get any traction. I mean, my biggest pet peeve when I'm dealing with, I'm kind of breaking up arguments as an attorney and having to deal with conflict or people who are circular, they can't let it go.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
They want to bring out that same issue over and over, even in that same conversation or the next time you see them. And, um, You can't be stuck in that. You're just on their merry-go-round is what happens. So you have to have the decision. One time I even advised a client. I had two sisters who were against each other. It was about as fun as it sounds.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Uh, they were very against each other and I had her lead with, I'm getting off the merry-go-round. I said, that's what I want you to start with when it comes to your time. I mean, that was the, it was more of a, a personal thing of like, I need you to let this person know I'm stepping off. You can step off with me, but we're going to put this issue aside. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
No, far from it. In the first basket of saying things with control, we talk about how the fight or flight affects in your body and how you say, I really want to say something hurtful. It's because you want to hurt the other person.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And you want to get back at them. It's not just a cutting word. It is you are wanting to cut them. It is that's the fight in it. And so it's truly you wanting to cause pain to push the threat away. Where I fall short is where I don't do what I outline in the book is I forget to take my breath out.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So when I don't lead with my breath, my first word being my breath, to make sure I'm keeping my analytical, my logical at the forefront of my brain and rather getting emotionally flooded, that's when I say things I regret. That's when I fall into getting defensive. And as soon as you get defensive, you're already starting to weaken your position.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You're already starting to lose the more defensive you get.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, there's a difference between advocating and also defending. So you can advocate a position and you can also defend a position. At the same time, you're, you're, the converse, you're also advocating for another position. In the legal world, it's a little bit different because you have to follow the law.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You can't decide what the law is going to be and you can't decide what your facts are going to be. You can only argue and advocate based upon the cards that you're dealt. And so often we use the terms defendant because maybe the state is pursuing prosecuting a criminal or maybe a plaintiff is It suits something against a defendant company in some way.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
There's these terms of defending, but really each side is advocating their particular views. So often when I'm getting defensive, it's because I'm taking things personally and choosing to hold on to something that I have all the ability to let go of at the same time.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
When you decide to take things personally, you're picking up what nobody asks you to carry. And many times if you say, that hurt me, it's because one, you're allowing it to hurt you. And in many ways, you're allowing it to hurt you and affect you.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And if you carry it for many years, because there's times when somebody said something to you many, many, many years ago, but you still remember it because it still hurts you and it still stuck with you. The same power that you allow them to hurt you is the same power you have to let it go. You're just still holding onto it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And often it is that process of making sure that you take control of yourself. You have the breath. You're able to regulate your emotions in a way that's going to allow you to continue to in that conversation without getting that fight or flight mixed up.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, that's a great question. And thank you again for having me.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, a blessing to be here in front of you again. It is a problem that is not uncommon. It's that default that you want to conflict with someone rather than connect to someone. And the way that you smooth out communication and the way you find connection is there's really three things. And it's the same formula that I want to share in my book and that I write about. It's you say it with control.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, I love, I mean, just letting it go, easier said than done.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
But what happens in conversation, same way, which is a great story and great lesson. I mean, what you've been able to go through is that when those things happen versus when somebody said it or they did it, you hold on to it and you kind of put it behind your back. You go around life talking to everybody and they don't know what you have back there, but you got something that's been hurting you.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And so when somebody is communicating with you and they're saying something that is triggering what you have in your hand, you're reacting and they don't understand it. And so too often... Like, what's going on? Yeah, yeah. And what you have to do is be able to show them what you got. That's much harder, be able to communicate with that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
One of the skills that I teach is it's helpful when you can begin your sentence with, I can tell. I can tell I'm getting defensive. Really? I can tell I'm getting sensitive. In argument, in real time, it's incredibly helpful.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What I say is when you claim it, you control it. Meaning when I say I'm getting defensive, I automatically become almost less defensive. At the same time, the other person is understanding in that moment, all right, I'm hitting an area that's going to be a trigger.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Well, that's when you have to, when you say it with control, you also act in control. Meaning if I tell you, I can tell I'm getting defensive. And they keep pressing. That's when you say, I need to walk away from this conversation.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, but that's much, much better, much smarter, much more powerful than continuing to dig and dig and dig while holding that problem, that issue you've always had.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You say it with confidence. And you say to connect. And when you can master these three elements, and it's almost a recipe, a formula that I give of how I communicate and how I teach, is when you do these and master these, you find that you're going to be able to show up more in effective conversations, especially the difficult ones, because it's not the last conversation.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I really do. And it's most of the time you see that people have been together for a long time. Those agreements happen naturally. So you can have a contract that is implicit. Unspoken agreements. It's not written down. Yeah. It's not written down. It's still a contract. Yeah, yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
If I go and mow your lawn, because you tell me, it's an oral contract, you tell me you're going to pay me, and then I mow the lawn, you go, sorry, it's not written down. It's still a contract. No. So often the people who have been together for a long time, those agreements form naturally. I become the person who takes out the trash.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
She becomes the person who does X or does Y because they grow out of habit and routine. Same thing. I love the idea of it comes not on assumptions, but on agreements. I find that very powerful.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And the big assumption, I think, that has to be in there, though, is you can't assume that it's not going to change. Because let's take the grandparents, for example, this yearly thing. People change. So what you wanted in year one is most likely not going to be the thing you want in year 10.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yes. And what happens, I mean, when you have kids, most of the time the agreement is kids. You don't agree on each other. And so now it's a third party into the contract. It takes up a whole lot of your time and space. intention for all the better. I mean, it's so it's beautiful.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, sounds great.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's not the last communication. There's always the next one. So when you can master the next conversation, that's when you already have a leg up in the game.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And that's what you see on the back end too, by the way, the people that you're not who I thought you were. I thought you would do this. I thought they were that. Well, it was because you had a lot of assumptions. Assumptions.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Same thing with conversations. If you and I are going to have a difficult conversation... I'm going to have that in my head long before I have the talk. And so it goes off the rails when all of a sudden you start to respond, not at all how I had it in my head. Wait, wait, wait. This isn't how it's supposed to go. This isn't how I had it rehearsed in my head. You're supposed to say, I'm sorry.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You're supposed to say, I'm right. I mean, it does not end up that way. And so instead of coming out at the beginning, let's say using a frame, getting an agreement of this is what I like to talk about.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Not trying to control every single outcome. Control is something very comfortable for everybody. We want our kid to do what we think they should do. I want somebody to react how I want them to react. I want somebody to write the email how I would write the email. So it is just a reflection of ourselves. And so I fall into the trap that anybody does. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Understanding that everybody wants to Learn more about you than you think. So what I mean by that is, in communication, there is a sense of, I want you to do what I say. And the other person goes, no, I want you to do what I say. And that's when that fight for control comes. That's when it's a tug of war. That's when you have that breakdown.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
That you want, I mean, imagine you really love communication. Somebody sends you an email and you go, God, I wish you would delete that unnecessary apology. Get rid of the word just. You could have made this one sentence. So it's something that I see a lot because it's something I'm passionate about. But yeah, I fall into the trap sometimes of
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, wanting, instead of letting it explore itself, it's the patience, it's the not getting defensive, it's the human elements and everything.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Tell me more. I got a lot of queer stories.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
When somebody starts to cry when...
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So if you're in an argument and you start to cry, number one, do not for one second apologize. There's absolutely nothing that you need to say. Let me say that differently. If you begin to cry in an argument, the only response you need to have is nothing. There's no apology you need to issue for crying. It is what your body does naturally. The higher the tension, the higher the release.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
If you are going to say anything, then you are going to label the tears. You're going to say, these are tired tears. These are tears that care. These are tears that are frustrated. You label them. It is your stress in liquid form. And that's all it is. And it's nothing to be ashamed of. Now, if somebody is, let's say, on the other side of it, and you're talking to them and they start to cry,
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
What you don't do is go, oh, Jesus, again. Oh, great. Oh, what? Let me guess. You're going to cry? Now you're going to cry. Yeah. Okay. You're crying now. Like that is the worst because you're saying you're not a safe place. If what I don't want somebody crying to do is say, I'm sorry. Don't apologize and say, I'm so sorry I'm crying. Take that, throw it away. Don't ever say that again.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
There's nothing to apologize for what your body does. If somebody else is crying, you're not going to apologize for them crying either. Understand that that is their body doing what their body needs to do because it is a stressful situation. If you need to, you can get a tissue and put it down. Don't feel like you need to put it in their face and go, okay, fine. You good? Get it all out.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Oh, great. Okay, I guess we'll just wait.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
anytime you do that is just eroding the trust you need to just continue to talk to them as if they're not because it serves as a distraction otherwise and it eliminates that idea of somebody using tears to manipulate too so it's a good way of just continuing to talk to them keep talking keep talking acting like they're not crying really yeah yeah what if they need a moment and they're really like having their that's different if you say hey we can we can pause for a moment if you just want to
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Absolutely. There's nothing wrong to say, hey, you need, you want to take a timeout? Nothing wrong with that. But it's the, when you act exasperated, if you roll your eyes and take a big sigh, that's where you, that's where you eroding the trust. You need to be a safe space for that. I was just saying, it's not bothering you. So if you can just say, I'm still here. Keep going. Like, you're good.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Keep going. Like that's typically, if you can just say, keep going, it is saying, hey, don't worry about that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And don't ever act exasperated. Sure. That's a bad way to do it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
One is, the best way to show up for somebody who's grieving, one, do not begin your sentence with, let me know if. Like, let me know if there's anything I can do. Don't start with that. Don't start with that. Let me know if. And they can turn this a million different ways. Let me know if you need anything. Let me know if there's anything I can do.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
But the line that I have, and it's one of the first things in the book I want to ask everybody to understand, is the person that you see is not the person that you're talking to.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It is disingenuous often when you say, let me know if. Because what it does is put all the responsibility on you. Hey, I checked my box. I just said, sorry. And I said, let me know if you need anything. I guess if they don't get back with me, they didn't need anything. And that's just not, that's not genuine. When somebody is grieving, the last thing they need is another burden put on them.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Another, oh, it's now on me to now ask out and reach out. Instead too, you just do it. Do the thing. If you wanted to bring groceries, go bring groceries. If you want to make their life better, go make their life better. Otherwise, don't act like you do. Don't say things that you don't mean.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
So it's much better to say, I'm so sorry for your loss than have this fictitious, let me know if you ever need anything. It's generally, most of the time, I'm not going to say not every time, most of the time, it is just to make the person who's offering it feel better.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. And so it is, I'm talking, I see Lewis, but. But you're talking to a hurt little boy. Yeah, I mean. Talking to a hurt little boy who's reactive or who's triggered. Yeah. And inside we're all kids. Inside we're all adults.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, because you want to make sure you're not overreaching, you're not doing too much. And I say it comes across as disingenuous. What I mean is it can be all the right intent. Like you are offering to say something because you truly feel for them. And often people have a hard time knowing what to say. They do. It's just they lock up. If I say this, it's going to say this.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It can be kind of a stressful situation to do. reach out to somebody and they just don't know any better. So I'm not trying to say that they don't have the best intentions. I think anybody who says, I'm sorry for that hardship, their intentions are pure. It's just when you say, let me know if you're really just giving them another chore. That's what you're doing.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I would, I would, I would leave it at that or that I'm thinking, just thinking of you, like just that alone. But don't say that. I'm here for you when you're really not.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Like you're in shock. Exactly.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
kids with who've things have been done to us and said to us that we would never tell other people that we never want to remember and things that that will always be a very hard road for us to to find peace in but that's the the goal is that you have to understand I see somebody, but that's not exactly who I'm talking to. Yes, you're talking to your spouse at 8 o'clock in the evening.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's a dagger. And people, grief isn't linear. I mean, people experience it in different ways and different depths and in their own way. And I was going to add that three is you want to agree with their pain. So don't try and minimize it. That's what we want to do. Well, at least they're in a good place. A lesson. Yeah. Well, I mean, it could have been worse.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Instead, what you want to say is, nobody should have to go through that. Man, that's terrible. I can't believe that happened. I mean, that is whatever thoughts they're needing to have that you think that they're having, you are agreeing with their pain. Don't try and lessen it in some way. That is, let them feel it fully. And you do that by agreeing with it.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You'll be apologizing if you do.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
The person you see, the person you're talking to is somebody who they got derailed at 9 a.m. from a text from someone who put them in a bad mood. The person who's bringing you your coffee kind of gave it to you late and seemed not to really care. It's the person you see. The person you're talking to is somebody who is worried about their kids,
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I mean, there's all kinds of different ways of seeing the other person. And it's this concept that everybody knows that there's a surface and a depth to everyone, but it's injecting that into your communication. And if you can only be curious enough to find that other person that you don't see, that's where the growth begins.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah, I find that it is hard. It's way hard. A key is to ask more questions than statements.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Hmm. There's one that I love and it's bar friend, Chris Foss. And he says, sounds like you have a reason for saying that. I love that question so much. It sounds like you have a reason for saying that because there's always a reason that they have for saying it. Um, and they, they may not feel comfortable sharing it until you ask that question.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And they're going to,
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Exactly. And this one isn't a question, but it's very close to it. And it's tell me more. What else? If you had to put that in the question, it would be what else? But tell me more is one of my go-tos because there's always more.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It can. It can, but that's just, it's that metaphor of you can't pour your glass into a pitcher that's already full. You got to let them pour it all out before they'll ever accept anything new into their mind. And what's the third one? The third one would be, are you okay? Okay. And you can't do it from a sarcastic point. Yeah. Yeah. Are you okay?
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's, it's a genuine, it's an authentic, are you okay? Because so many times I, I'm not okay. But if somebody would just ask me, that would make me feel a little bit better.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yes.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
It's most impactful. This tell me more mindset is especially when the other person is angry. Oh yeah. If I have a conversation with somebody and they're heated and they're mad at anything, maybe they're mad at me and I say, Tell me more. They'll tell you more.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
And then you keep letting go and you go, all right, tell me more. I mean, it's therapeutic in a way where you're just taking it in and you're just listening. The hard part is not grabbing a hook. Yeah, yeah, of course.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yeah. We don't ever do that. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, of course.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Not having enough assertiveness in that communication.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Yes. You know, you have the area of control of controlling yourself. And by controlling yourself and understanding your own triggers, you're better to see those triggers in other people. Step two is saying it with confidence, meaning you learn to say things assertively. You say things that are going to Make sure they know where you stand, that you say what you mean and mean what you say.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
That's a whole lot harder for a lot of people because they don't want to step on toes. They don't want to... Be very direct. They'd rather type it on that keyboard and put it in a YouTube comment than ever say it to your face. I see a lot of that.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I want to make sure that I give your folks what I find to be the number one tool for difficult conversations and how to make sure you have them most effectively is a frame. And so when you can put a frame around a difficult conversation, you take the difficult out of it because it's only difficult because we say it's difficult.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I mean, other people could listen in on the conversation and go, well, that's not that bad. You just said X, Y, and Z. But to us internally, we just, we stew on it. And number one on how to have a frame for handling difficult conversations is when you tell them what you want to talk about. It can be as easy as, hey, Lewis, I'd like to talk about what you said at dinner on Monday night.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Two, this is the big one. You tell them how you want to feel after the conversation. That's big. And three, you get their buy-in. So it could look like, The first step being, hey, Lewis, I'd love to talk about the comment you made at the meeting on Tuesday. And at the end of this conversation, I'd love for us to have a better understanding of our priorities.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Or maybe it's as simple as, and there's nothing I want to solve, or I'm not looking for an answer. I just need you to know this. Simple as that. Does that sound good? Does that work? That's the buy-in part. That's the three of that, all right? They say, yeah, and it's kind of like what you just said. Once you can do that and you get their buy-in, they go, all right, I can stick with this.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Now you have the frame. Now you don't have to talk about anything else. You don't have to say, oh, yeah, and by the way, while we're on this, I have this other complaint that I have I didn't tell you about. Yeah, from three months ago.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Oh, yeah. And hey, by the way, stop doing that. You're very focused. It's the idea if you have a million issues to talk about, you're not talking about any issue. You're just saying things to say you said them.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Ooh, being generous with your ears, being able to listen a whole lot more than you're talking, being able to just find a way to... If they say that something is wrong, that does not automatically mean that they need you to make it right. There are things that has to have a hash out. I am someone that is an internal thinker. You could say something to me and I'm going to think on it for a while.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I'll chew on it. I'm not going to talk out loud. Really? Yeah. Oh man, that's hard for me. And so I don't process my thoughts that way of just having to talk it out loud the whole time. To me, it wears me down. wears me down. My personality is the more you talk about emotions, sometimes the more I start to feel them. I'm extremely sensitive to emotions of others.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I have the tendency of like feeling things for them. I have a hard time watching a movie where an awkward moment happens. It just makes me cringe. But it's a good lesson for me. Also understanding that when you can find ways just to hear out the emotion without trying to do anything with it, I think is a very valuable skill.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
I think it's also very attractive to have a lot of patience in just all things. all things that I just have a whole lot of patience. Yeah, man. Yeah. And that's something that I continually pray for.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
No doubt.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You were given the tools.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
When you win an argument, you lose a lot more. Meaning, if I say that thing that I know is going to smash, it feels great.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You feel like you just, attaboy.
The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
You're high-fiving everybody down the hall. When you finally hit that zinger, oh, this is so sweet. Like, and you text it and you want to show the friend, like, oh, you see that? Man, that's so good. Yeah. And then that lasts for a glimmer. Yeah. I mean, and then you wake up the next day and you look at it and you go, what an idiot. What I think was going to happen.