The School of Greatness
The #1 Method To Defuse Any Argument & Have Hard Conversations That Will Change Your Life w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher
Mon, 24 Feb 2025
I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person!Get my new book Make Money Easy here!In a world where heated arguments and misunderstandings ruin our relationships, trial lawyer and communication expert Jefferson Fisher returns to the School of Greatness to reveal the art of meaningful conversation. Sharing insights from his new book "The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More," Fisher unpacks his powerful three-part framework for transformative communication: control, confidence, and connection. Through vulnerable personal examples, including his own struggles with defensive reactions, he illustrates how mastering these elements can heal relationships and prevent unnecessary conflicts. This episode offers game-changing strategies for anyone looking to enhance their personal and professional relationships, particularly those who find themselves caught in recurring arguments or struggling to have difficult conversations.Jefferson’s new book The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk MoreIn this episode you will learn:Why winning an argument actually means losing connection, credibility, and trustThe three-step formula for delivering a genuine apology that truly heals relationshipsHow to use "frames" to transform difficult conversations into productive dialoguesThe power of saying "Tell me more" and why it's transformative in emotional conversationsWhy clear agreements, not assumptions, are the foundation of successful relationshipsFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1737For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Erwin McManus – greatness.lnk.to/1731SCVanessa Van Edwards – greatness.lnk.to/1231SCMel Robbins – greatness.lnk.to/1710SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Chapter 1: What is the focus of Jefferson Fisher's new book?
So let's go ahead and dive in right now. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Excited about our guest. He is back, Jefferson Fisher in the house with a new book called The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. Very excited about this, man. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me back, Lewis. Yeah, man.
You are a leading voice as a trial lawyer, but also speaker and authoritative figure on how to really effectively communicate better. And a lot of people struggle specifically in intimate relationships. And when I mean intimate, I'm not only talking romantic, but family and friends, I feel like are also intimate relationships.
And I just feel like there's a lot of conflict where people have lost the ability and the art to open their heart, listen to someone with a different opinion or a different belief, not get triggered emotionally and be able to respond calmly when they disagree with someone.
And you have seemed to educate and teach people on how to do this so effectively in your content and the way you share these messages online and in your book. And I guess my first question for you is, it just seems impossible for people to navigate these arguments.
Chapter 2: How can we navigate arguments in intimate relationships?
And it's almost like I either have to give in to keep the peace when someone has a different belief, I don't wanna speak up to rock the boat, or I have to speak up and then have this conflict with someone I care about. How can we start to navigate with intimate relationships, loved ones, friends, family, our partner, when we have different beliefs without rocking the boat?
Well, that's a great question. And thank you again for having me.
Of course, man.
Chapter 3: What are the three key elements of effective communication?
Yeah, a blessing to be here in front of you again. It is a problem that is not uncommon. It's that default that you want to conflict with someone rather than connect to someone. And the way that you smooth out communication and the way you find connection is there's really three things. And it's the same formula that I want to share in my book and that I write about. It's you say it with control.
You say it with confidence. And you say to connect. And when you can master these three elements, and it's almost a recipe, a formula that I give of how I communicate and how I teach, is when you do these and master these, you find that you're going to be able to show up more in effective conversations, especially the difficult ones, because it's not the last conversation.
It's not the last communication. There's always the next one. So when you can master the next conversation, that's when you already have a leg up in the game.
What would you say is the key to any conflict resolution then?
Understanding that everybody wants to Learn more about you than you think. So what I mean by that is, in communication, there is a sense of, I want you to do what I say. And the other person goes, no, I want you to do what I say. And that's when that fight for control comes. That's when it's a tug of war. That's when you have that breakdown.
But the line that I have, and it's one of the first things in the book I want to ask everybody to understand, is the person that you see is not the person that you're talking to.
Who are you talking to?
Yeah. And so it is, I'm talking, I see Lewis, but. But you're talking to a hurt little boy. Yeah, I mean. Talking to a hurt little boy who's reactive or who's triggered. Yeah. And inside we're all kids. Inside we're all adults.
kids with who've things have been done to us and said to us that we would never tell other people that we never want to remember and things that that will always be a very hard road for us to to find peace in but that's the the goal is that you have to understand I see somebody, but that's not exactly who I'm talking to. Yes, you're talking to your spouse at 8 o'clock in the evening.
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Chapter 4: What questions can defuse a heated argument?
Yeah.
It's hard to be like, okay, settle down. I know this isn't who you are. It's hard when you're exhausted, right?
Yeah, I find that it is hard. It's way hard. A key is to ask more questions than statements.
What are the three most powerful questions you should ask when someone is overreactive, stressed out, or overwhelmed in an argument or conversation?
Hmm. There's one that I love and it's bar friend, Chris Foss. And he says, sounds like you have a reason for saying that. I love that question so much. It sounds like you have a reason for saying that because there's always a reason that they have for saying it. Um, and they, they may not feel comfortable sharing it until you ask that question.
Should you say, what is that reason? Or just let it sit? Usually if you let it sit, they'll say, yeah. Yeah.
And they're going to,
I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling stressed. Yeah. Whatever it is.
Exactly. And this one isn't a question, but it's very close to it. And it's tell me more. What else? If you had to put that in the question, it would be what else? But tell me more is one of my go-tos because there's always more.
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Chapter 5: How can 'Tell me more' improve your relationships?
You've got to have such extreme patience to be able to use that because it could go for hours.
It can. It can, but that's just, it's that metaphor of you can't pour your glass into a pitcher that's already full. You got to let them pour it all out before they'll ever accept anything new into their mind. And what's the third one? The third one would be, are you okay? Okay. And you can't do it from a sarcastic point. Yeah. Yeah. Are you okay?
It's, it's a genuine, it's an authentic, are you okay? Because so many times I, I'm not okay. But if somebody would just ask me, that would make me feel a little bit better.
You know, it's interesting if people could learn the art, cause I think it's an art of tell me more. They will have some of the most powerful relationships in their life with the people they can use that with.
When I'm in a good state and I'm not feeling defensive and Martha's having some type of overwhelming moment or something's going on, when I'm able to be there for her and just say, what's going on? Tell me more. And continue to tell me more. Is there anything else? Is there anything else you'd like to say? Right. Tell me more about how that makes you feel.
Yes.
What else? What about this? Tell me more. until she's able to get it all out. And if I can be present and patient, there's so much power in the connection afterwards. And for weeks of just like being able to be there for someone and listen, not trying to fix, not trying to coach, not trying to guide, but just listen and say, tell me more. What else is going on?
Is there anything else you want to say? Are you sure? What else? It is so powerful. It will change your relationship for the better. And the hardest part for me is to get out of myself when I'm feeling defensive to be able to do that for someone else. Cause I feel like I'm not speaking about Martha, but just in general, I don't feel, I don't feel like they're doing that for me.
It's most impactful. This tell me more mindset is especially when the other person is angry. Oh yeah. If I have a conversation with somebody and they're heated and they're mad at anything, maybe they're mad at me and I say, Tell me more. They'll tell you more.
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Chapter 6: Why should you never aim to win an argument?
You can pray for something, but you gotta act on it too. You gotta create. You can't just say, give it to me. You gotta create. You gotta learn the skill yourself.
No doubt.
Yeah.
You were given the tools.
Yeah. You gotta act on it. A lot of people don't like losing in life. They don't like losing games. They don't like losing- Anything. Anything, right? And they don't like losing an argument. But you say in chapter one to never win an argument. Why is that?
When you win an argument, you lose a lot more. Meaning, if I say that thing that I know is going to smash, it feels great.
Man, your ego feels freaking like a zing.
You feel like you just, attaboy.
Oh, you're just home run.
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Chapter 7: How can you apologize effectively after an argument?
They want to be the hero. Yeah. And that's when I, you know, when I said that, it was, I feel like these three words are the most powerful words to get anything you want besides I love you. And that's what's the chance. Like we talked about what's the chance. And the more you can come from a mindset of what's the chance you can help me out with this?
What's the chance I can get an upgrade on this hotel? What's the chance you can get me to first class? What's the chance I can get a discount on this right now? What's the chance you can give me half off? You may not get exactly what you want, but you're creating a playful, open connection with someone. Like you said, what's a chance or I need a miracle.
Can you help give me a spoon right now so I can eat this ice cream with my kid? You're creating an open heart and a playful way of being to allow for goodness to come to your life. It's not being manipulative, but it's creating an opening for miracles to occur. Even those little mini miracles that just make life enjoyable.
Yeah, just a little bitty thing.
And if you can say, what's the chance? Or I need a miracle. Can you help me out?
Yeah.
Man, you're setting yourself up for success.
Every time. And you're allowing the other person to rise up to, you know. Be a hero. Well, to fulfill that. I mean, they'll make them feel it's just it's a mutual sense of giving. It's the givers like you talked about. And the reason why What's the Chance works, too, is that it is easy to say without feeling like you're being oppressive. Easy to say because it's like, you know.
It's not demanding something.
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