Gabriel Mizrahi
Appearances
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins. I want to tell you about Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides. That's a mouthful. It's a daily supplement that supports your hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints all in one in one simple step each day. Collagen makes up about a third of the protein in our bodies, but as we hit our 30s, it unfortunately starts to decline.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
But what strikes me about this part of his letter is, how can he know if he can trust their connection to weather anything if he doesn't stress test the relationship? He doesn't share something like this. How can he find out if he can trust her to meet him with understanding and compassion, with love, basically, rather than judgment?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
If he doesn't take a chance and open up about this, it's kind of like, yeah, we can weather anything. What about this? I don't want to find the answer to that. I totally get it, make it light of it here, but it's kind of funny. It's like, this is bulletproof. Cool. Wear it and I'll shoot it. Actually, let's not do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So from where I'm sitting, he's now doing something wrong, in air quotes, by controlling things in that way. And it's coming at the cost of their connection.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
By the way, people have been putting that in their pitch now. They're like, the purpose of my book is to make you a better informed, more critical thinker. That it's like something about leadership in real estate. And I'm like, guys. You can't just, anyway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Right, and until he does that, it's hard to truly know whether they really are each other's people, and also to know if they can successfully raise a child together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Actually, that's the one way that this conversation does tie to the pregnancy, in my view, because it will only make them stronger parents. Although I still think it's important that he shares this with her, regardless of any child they might have together. So here's how I'd do that. I would start by saying something like, listen. I want to share something with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
It's something very painful, very old, something I honestly haven't wanted or even known how to talk about with you. But now that we're at this stage of our relationship, we're thinking about becoming parents. I don't feel it's right to keep this from you. I want you to know about it, even though it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
It comes with a lot of shame, a lot of distress, and I wish I didn't have to talk about it at all, but I know that I do. Maybe here you say, by the way, I'm so sorry that I didn't tell you about this sooner. If you're angry with me for that, I'm willing to hear that. And I hope you can understand why this has been so scary for me to talk about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So 35 years ago, my father did this awful thing to my sisters. And look, here you can go into as much detail or as little detail about that as you want at this stage. Maybe you keep it kind of high level at first. Just give her the essential facts. And then if she has questions, you could answer them in more detail if you want.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from mafia enforcers to investigative journalists, astronauts, hackers, tech luminaries. This week, we had none of the above. We had my friend Dr. Michael Isretel, leading fitness expert, and perhaps most importantly, former lifting partner of yours truly back at the University of Michigan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So my dad did these things and it had such and such effect on my sisters, on my mom, on me. And when we found out about the pregnancy, it suddenly made it very real for me that I have to let you in on this part of my life because you're my person and you deserve to know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And maybe at that point, you can elaborate a little bit on what those reasons are, whether it's about the quality of your relationship or whether any child you guys have should see the grandfather or whatever this baby's brought up for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And then I'd share with her where you've landed on all this, what process you've been through with your dad, why you're on friendly terms with him, how that's played out with your sisters, how it shaped your family. I think all of that stuff is super meaningful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Then I might say something like, look, to be totally honest, part of the reason I haven't wanted to talk about this is that I have shame around it. It's really hard for me to talk about this. But really my biggest fear is that if I told you about all this, maybe you wouldn't want to be with me anymore, which would be devastating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And I've asked myself if our connection can weather a revelation like this. I think it can, but I'm also really scared that this history, which obviously wasn't my fault, but still, that it'll somehow change how you see me, how you feel about me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And I'm also worried you might wonder if I'm not as safe as a parent, which is a really painful thought, and I want you to know in my bones that I am not a dangerous guy. I'm not like my dad in this way. I would never, ever hurt my children. But I just want you to know all that so you understand where I am with all this and why it's taken me so long to open up to you about all this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's how I would approach this conversation. I basically put all your fears and anxieties on the table because they're all relevant here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
It's sad because he's huge and fit, and I'm just me. We discussed fitness, strength, dieting, fat loss, muscle gain, and more. I normally don't really cover health at all on this show, but lately, as you all know, I've been a little bit more of a meathead, and I just love the science behind this stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Totally agree, Gabe. Although I'm honestly having a hard time imagining that she wouldn't ultimately be kind about this and side with our friend here because this truly was not his fault. But you're right. I guess you never know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Not much from the sound of it. I don't mean to be a jerk, but okay, he meditated. Great. Hey, I'm all for meditation. I know hardcore meditators say it's profound. It changes their lives. I'm not discounting that. Like runners say the same thing. Yeah, he went jogging a lot. Dude, this guy molested his own daughters.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I'm sorry, but I don't think sitting in silence and observing your mind and reciting a mantra qualifies as serious personal work, especially not in the therapeutic domain. Not when it comes to sexually abusing your own kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
This guy could be in prison for what he did. And let me put it this way. If somebody else raped someone and then they told you that they meditated a bunch, would you be like, well, in that case, we're not sending you to jail. You would never do that. That's what we're doing here by letting him off the hook for having meditated a bunch after molesting his daughters. Did that rehabilitate him?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
We tackle some nutrition and dieting myths that I think are especially important for anyone to know, even if you don't go to the gym at all, or whatever. Maybe you're an athlete. A lot of people don't know this stuff. I certainly didn't. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and compare ourselves to various holiday paraphernalia.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Look, I have some basic compassion for people like this because there's obviously something wrong with them. I'm sure it's super painful and horrible to confront, but candidly, I am disturbed by this assessment that he's done serious personal work when he's just meditating, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's when you might notice things aren't working quite like they used to. Your joints, your skin, maybe even your hair. Vital Proteins steps in to help keep those areas supported so you can stay active and keep doing what you love. Vital Proteins is the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., so they know what they're doing. It's super easy to take.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's a hell no. And he knows that. Because he's literally saying, I find it hard to explain exactly how I've seen my father change as a result, and I would draw a line at leaving our child alone with him. So how serious can this personal work really have been? Sorry, I'm a little worked up here, especially as a dad. I'm just, I'm very worried about all this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
It just sounds a little bit like bypassing, doesn't it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
In other words, to avoid something difficult in himself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I would argue they need to be on the table. And actually, they probably are one way or another. I'm just not sure that he's fully in touch with them, except for the shame piece, which is popping up again now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And meanwhile, one of his sisters doesn't speak to the father. And part of the reason for that might be that she has her own child.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's where I'd land with this, both as a victim and as a parent of a potential victim. Maybe I'm not forgiving enough. That's also very possible. Maybe I need to meditate more. I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
But she has no kids of her own. That's kind of an important detail. There's no victims that she's around. He can't do anything to her. She's an adult.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Paraphernalia? Paraphernalia. Sounds right. Paraphernalia? Yeah, I suppose. I'm not... That's such a weird word that I don't even know if you have to pronounce it correctly because... No, I think you do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's the exact question he needs to be asking. But I also want to appreciate that forgiving is probably a lot simpler for our friend here. He wasn't the one who got abused. So his wound is very different from his sister's. It's still there, but it's not the same thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I just want to acknowledge that because it's another thing that makes this story a little bit more complicated than it seems at first glance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Interesting. In other words, that might be one more thing that he's trying to control.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Bottom line, time to have this conversation sooner the better. You said it best. I feel like this is my opportunity to live the loving relationship that I've longed for. And by the way, that sounds like a Gabriel sign off. But this is such a beautiful way to put it. That is what you're doing by having this conversation. You're honoring the connection you have with the love of your life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You're embodying the values you want to lead with in your relationship. Honesty, trust, vulnerability, a willingness to grow, to invite your partner's love and understanding. This is extremely profound stuff, man. It's going to be a tough conversation, but I have a hunch you might also find that it's not as hard as you fear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
We don't bother pronouncing it. Halfway through, I'm just like, I am retired. I'm not finishing the word. Before we dive in, I've been getting a lot of emails over the last couple months about how to evaluate online coaches or online teachers or courses or gurus, people like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And beyond that, I hope you guys feel secure together and in your decision to have this child. It is a big step. I hope you meet this baby and each other with a lot of love and courage and commitment, which might begin by sharing this part of your life with your partner. Sending you both a big hug and wishing you all the best.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are all searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Oh, cool. I didn't know Mother Goose was writing the sign-offs today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
A lot of these emails are asking me specifically about this guru or that course or this online academy, whether it's good, whether this person seems legit. I obviously cannot opine on every single course or every single expert out there, but what I can tell you is is this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Interesting problem. Look, there's a sitcom somewhere in here. Gen Z kid starts working at, I don't know, Pacific Gas and Electric PG&E, that's our electric company around here, with exclusively boomers. And the new kid's talking about how lit their product is, literally. And the other older folks at the office are like, send this fax for me. I'm the devil, little boy. Little boy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's, by the way, how patronizing is that? That would drive me nuts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Oh, God. But seriously, I get why this is challenging. It's a tough one. First off, I just want to say I really appreciate your mindset here. You're not going to screw these old fogies. How do I create a lane for myself to rise up and screw everybody over? You want to make it work. You want to collaborate with them. You want to have a mutually respectful relationship with them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I think that's great. It's interesting. There's this very subtle, pervasive ageism here in the United States, especially in the tech world, kind of everywhere. And it really rubs me the wrong way because, yes, young people, they move more quickly. They grew up with a lot of this tech. They run a lot of our culture. But older people have so much to offer them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Experience, wisdom, perspective, institutional knowledge, a punching bag for the state of the world. No, I kid. But seriously. I'm not a fan of this whole generational warfare thing that's happening these days. Even in those dumb internet jokes like, okay, boomer, I get it. Boomers can sometimes be a little frustrating, like my parents. But you know what?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
There are Gen Z people who literally can't look someone in the eye or do a handshake that's not a dead fish. And they can't deliver a mildly tough piece of news. So it's not like the kids have it all figured out either. All right, off the soapbox now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
My point is, I appreciate that you want to build bridges with these folks, especially after they've apparently condescended to you, which they are definitely doing. On a related note, I also think it's worth remembering that it might not even be malicious on their part. They might just be having a laugh and commenting on the obvious age gap between you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Or they view you as a threat and this is their way to establish their assert dominance or superiority. It's impossible for me to know, but it is worth asking. But whatever the reason, the way I would make this work is to show up with a mix of humility, diplomacy, and appropriate assertiveness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
When you interact with these people, I'd meet them with kindness, curiosity, and respect, all the things you want them to meet you with, and keep believing in the best version of them. So for example, if you're in a meeting talking about a project or a problem or whatever, maybe you go, hey, Arnie, you've been here for a lot longer than I have. How did it go last time this came up?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
When an expert you see online is selling a course on, say, how to make money in real estate, remember, they are making money by selling online courses. They might also be making money in real estate, but you don't actually know that, and you probably can't really prove that or vet that. When a conference teaches you how to build an online business,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
What would you do? Think you can guide me a little bit? Or if you guys get into territory you're not as familiar with, maybe you go, okay, I know I'm the new guy. You guys probably have seen this a few more times than I have. I'm curious to know how you'd handle it. My approach looks like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And of course, I'd resist the urge to assume you know more than you do or dismiss their ideas because they're older or they have a different way of doing things, although I don't get the sense that's who you are, but yeah, stuff like that. Don't shy away from advocating for your own ideas and talents, but deliver them with humility and respect.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You might have to model what that looks like for these older colleagues first, and that's what'll inspire them to start treating you the same. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You have to remember that they're ultimately marketing an event. They are in the events business. They've already gotten your money by getting you to buy a ticket and probably upsell you to coaching. So the question becomes, why is that? What are these people truly selling? It's actually not that hard to suss out what these coaches and gurus and schools are truly offering.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
The product is usually right there in front of you. And it's crazy how the product they offer is often very different from the experience or the feeling or the results that they're promising. And just to be clear, I'm not saying that everyone offering a course or a coaching product or conference or whatever is full of crap. There are obviously solid coaches and teachers and events out there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And sometimes the person is in the events business, but all the guest speakers are actually doing really well and they're teaching you stuff. That's probably somewhere in the middle of the bell curve. But as you size these people up, my advice is push past the marketing as much as possible. Don't just settle for what these people are promising you or even the testimonials on the website.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
,,,,,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That is just sales. That is just marketing. Try to get a glimpse of the actual experience or the curriculum before you buy anything so that you know there's actual value there. And most importantly, learn from what people do as much as what they actually say.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So there's that point again, right? He thinks that it's not going to get more efficient, although that's not necessarily what he's saying. I think what he's saying is as more people use it, it doesn't matter how efficient it gets because let's say it uses half the power. But if 10 times the amount of people are using it, well, OK, it's not using less power. So I get that. That's a huge bummer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
He seems to know way more than we do on that. So maybe he's right. I don't know. I haven't done any of the math on that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Fascinating argument. Yeah, that's really interesting. By the way, the quantum thing, what they mean is if you're going to make something really small, you can do that. But then eventually it's like, okay, how much smaller do you make something that is three atoms wide? You can only make it one atom wide, but there's going to be a whole host of other problems.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You can't just keep shrinking something indefinitely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it doesn't work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That is absolutely going to happen, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I've never heard of that. It does sound like a good rec. Sorry to our previous listener for plugging it, but it does sound cool.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Just add a serving to your coffee, smoothie, even water. It doesn't even taste like anything, so it blends right in. The key is consistency. Making it a daily habit is how you see the benefits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Honestly, I'm still learning so much about AI. I don't have as much to push back on here. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can. All of these points from your letter, the previous one, they're really insightful, and I just wanted to share them with everyone. But long story short, I completely share your concerns about over-reliance on AI.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I'm also very worried about where this is going, what the implications are for people who haven't been educated successfully to use this tech in the best way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
There's a big difference between an informed person who's curious and rigorous, using chat GPT to move a little faster and assess what they find independently, and somebody who's never gone to school or who isn't very savvy or who's naive or gullible, believing every single thing that AI tells them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Now, in my experience, 80 plus percent of experts out there tried the actual thing they're selling and they realized it was just too risky or too hard, too unstable, fickle, whatever. So they just decided to teach other people how to do it. knowing that those people are willing to spend money on the product because it's so risky and so hard and fickle and unstable and all the other things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And like I said, young people who are learning using AI services, and I put learning in quotes here, I don't know, man, they might not actually be learning anything at all, or maybe they're just learning in a different way, and we're all swiftly becoming dinosaurs, but I suspect not. Honestly, I am most worried about the point you made about AI using data that'll have certain biases baked in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's always been a concern with any source, but it's especially concerning with AI because it tends to present its findings as objective truth. It can't comment on its own biases, at least not yet. There's no human intervention or fact-checking because that's the whole point of AI, and that is worrisome. So I come back to the idea that I always seem to come back to with AI.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
It's gonna be amazing, and it's gonna be a nightmare, and it all comes down to the way we use it, our intentions, our education, previous education, and our mindset. But it's not like this modern world is doing very well in that regard anyway. So I guess we better strap in. I think news and public opinion and elections are all going to be hot messes for the next decade and change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That is my one big prediction. And yeah, I do wonder what AI is going to do to our brains over time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Why would my AI girlfriend care about my life? Anyway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So, look, I hear you. I'm also absolutely drowning in email right now, so don't judge me. I think it would be really cool to use AI to do some of that. Big thanks to both of these listeners for writing in, really helping us fill in some gaps around AI this week. And we appreciate you, if you are real people after all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Now I'm going to interpolate these magical words so that we can perfectly extrapolate the crazy good deals on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show can be extrapolated from jordanharbinger.com slash deals or the AI chatbot, which I probably should have kept that joke for this line. But anyway, that's over at jordanharbinger.com slash AI. You can also email us if you need to. We're happy to dig up the codes for you. AI will do it.
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1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
If that doesn't work, we'll dig up the code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Saying thank you for sharing that. I haven't really heard it put that way, certainly not from someone on the spectrum. Yeah, I can absolutely understand why that's frustrating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I mean, wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's great. Look, I'm not one of those people who thinks that an age gap is automatically wrong or predatory or whatever, but it is an interesting fact. Vastly different phases of life y'all are in here. But I'm not judging, it's just interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And that's often how these people pay the bills. So their real estate investment or their courses or whatever, that's the bulk of their cash. And they're using the rest of it to speculate on a market that they're telling you is foolproof and basically just like another savings account or whatever the marketing says about real estate. Me personally?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Okay, I might be judging a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Wow, is this an affair? So is this guy cheating on his wife?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Okay, carry on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So definitely not a child anymore. Not somebody you need to control and give a bedtime to and read all their text messages. Certainly not an 8 p.m. bedtime. That's weird. I'm actually concerned about the food thing, controlling her access to food.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I just can't think of any good reason a parent should control their child's access to food unless they have some sort of medical condition or something, especially at age 23. That's odd.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Right. I kind of wish we could talk to the mom and get her side of all this. Look, she might be totally nuts. But to be fair, if I heard my 23-year-old daughter was dating a 49-year-old married guy and she were on the spectrum and maybe there's some emotional maturity stuff there, who knows? Maybe that makes her more vulnerable to certain people out in the world. I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Maybe there's even a history of this with her. I just, I'd have a few fair questions. What I would not do is stomp on her iPhone and tell her lights out at 8pm because I said so. Maybe I'm a little more protective in general, but this seems way overboard in every column.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I could be wrong, but I don't believe anybody's automatically under a guardianship without going through a legal process unless she does have a legal guardian already. And that guardianship lasts until she's 26. But it's not like New York state or frankly, any state automatically puts people with special needs under a guardianship, at least not as far as I know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I like to work with coaches and learn from experts who are also actually doing the thing that I want to do and doing it successfully. Would you learn from a personal trainer who is 40 pounds overweight? Probably not, right? But you can't really tell if the slickster in front of you really owns a bunch of commercial real estate or if they're just showing you stock drone footage of buildings, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Okay, so Gabe, we still don't know if he was cheating on his wife by seeing this woman?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's the sense I get, too. Yeah. So it was an affair unless it was like they were kind of already separated. But who knows all the deets?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So I get it. But we don't know how his wife felt, what they had discussed up to that point. I just want to be clear. We'll put this part of the story aside. I know it's not the main thing he's writing it about. It just it could be a little messy or it could be way simpler than we think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Like I said, it might be factoring into the mom's response to their relationship, the age gap, the circumstances of how they met. That might be a good thing for him to appreciate. But anyway, look, I'm sorry that your girlfriend's mother is controlling her in this way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I'm sorry that it's an obstacle to you guys becoming closer, that it fits with this larger pattern, people treating autistic folks a certain way. I'm genuinely grateful to hear from you, not just to dig into this problem with you, but also to understand the autistic experience a little bit better. It brings up some complicated questions for me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Like, where's the line between appropriately protecting your child with special needs if they have some potential blind spots, say, and out and out just controlling them?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Me neither. It's quite confusing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Right. Which would be super creepy. And like I said, she's controlling her in a lot of concerning ways.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Well, exactly. If mom is worried about her daughter dating a 50-year-old married guy, maybe there's an aspect of this that's understandable. Although I think if your daughter's 23 and she wants to date someone, you just kind of have to let her do it. She's an adult. Even if she is autistic and you think that puts a bunch of asterisks by her decision-making.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So is your girlfriend's mother's behavior actually abusive? Hard to say. If you mean in some technical or legal sense, maybe not, probably not. The only thing that gives me pause really is the food thing. Yeah, that could be abusive, but I'm not sure what the exact deal is there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Also, if she's literally stopping her from leaving the house, if she's imprisoning her, kind of, that might be abusive. But destroying the phones, kind of a different category. In a more colloquial sense, I guess maybe the mom is being abusive-ish, if that's a term we can coin here. But I think controlling and coercive are probably better words.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Enmeshed, overly involved, micromanage-y, super strict to the point of ridiculousness, those are the other things here. Concerning, sure, but not necessarily criminal. As for what you can do about all this, I would encourage your girlfriend to talk to her mom about her autonomy, her independence, her interests.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You just don't know. So you want to learn from somebody who is doing what you want to do successfully and Or at least they've done it in the past with demonstrable results. So for example, let's say that they're 65. They sold all of their commercial real estate portfolio because they don't have kids and now they're teaching you how to do it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I agree, but also you might have to be patient and wait for this apartment to come through. When your girlfriend lives on her own, that's going to be a game changer for both of you. It's really hard to individuate when you still live under your parents' roof, especially with a mom like this. A lot's going to become possible when she's on her own and when you formally separate from your wife.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Those two events are going to be important steps for you guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I totally agree, Gabe. I hope these conversations are productive. I hope your girlfriend's mom finds the comfort she needs in order to let go of her daughter, or if she doesn't, that she learns to do it anyway because her daughter is an adult.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I hope you continue in this relationship in a way that's thoughtful to everyone involved, including your soon-to-be ex-wife, your girlfriend's mom, your girlfriend, even yourself. Because even if you two are great for each other, there's a few tough transitions here for everyone to move through. And good luck. All right, right now, recommendation of the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is chia seed pudding. I recently discovered this. Yeah, I've been sleeping on it. I mean, it's not like I never had it before. I just didn't know how ridiculously easy this stuff was to make and that it was also nutritious. So if you make chia seed pudding with skim milk, it can be under 100 calories for a nice portion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And it's got nine grams of protein, depending on the milk. That's a really good ROI for the calories. Of course, I eat like four servings at a time because I'm just loving it, but it is tasty. Four drops of vanilla stevia in there, and it tastes actually like a dessert. Four tablespoons of chia seeds and half a cup of milk. Let it sit overnight. There's no cooking. You basically stir that mix.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And it's done. I wish I'd known about this earlier. It's great bachelor food for guys out there who are like, I don't want to cook anything. And as a bonus, it has soluble fiber. So it's good for lowering your LDL cholesterol, the bad stuff. And it's good for your poops too. So you got that going for you. So it's easy to make and it's good for you. And it has protein.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Some of their info might be a little out of date, but they know what they're doing. They did it. Now they're teaching other people how to do it. Maybe this is a legacy thing for them. Fine. But otherwise, you just can't put stock in what they're offering.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So chia seed pudding, look into it, folks. I swear it's amazing. Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for our show if you want to jump into discussions with our listeners about specific episodes. If there's an episode you like, an episode you didn't like, you want to share some thoughts, there's a lot of cool conversations happening over there and a meme thread.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You can find it on Reddit in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Okay, what's next?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You want to take the real estate course from the person who's managing a portfolio of buildings or just did that for 20 or 30 years, not the guy who flamed out in commercial real estate after buying a strip mall and getting foreclosed on during the pandemic. Right now, this guy's hawking some e-course on how to earn passive income by being a real estate mogul.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, they're paying you a lot more in part because it sucks, and that's the going rate for being miserable all the time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Really good question. So first of all, I'm sorry that you're so miserable right now. I totally get why. This really does sound like a frustrating, dysfunctional, annoying workplace. Most corporate workplaces are to some degree, but this one sounds uniquely challenging. Who you work with, that's 80% of what makes a job great. And it just sounds like you're surrounded by not great people. Second...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I really appreciate your sense of responsibility, your self-awareness. Like the fact that you don't just want to jump ship, you want to stick it out for at least a year before interviewing. That might or might not be truly necessary, but it does say something about you. You also understand that you have to support your family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You're not just throwing caution to the wind and putting them at risk because you're unhappy right now. That's obviously crucial. And then there's this thing you said, which I loved, that as you've gotten older, you've realized you've allowed your ego to interfere in your career. You might be doing the same now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And if that's true, and that's something only you can really know, but if that's true, that's a really meaningful insight on your part. It's absolutely something to keep an eye on, and I commend you for being able to clock that. Although I'd say it's a balance because you also have to listen to your true wants and your needs, your values, your ambition.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And if your ego is appropriately screaming at you, get out of this place, do work that matters to you, be happy. I wouldn't necessarily advise you to completely ignore that. So look, I can't tell you with 100% certainty whether you should run from this place or stay and rise up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
As we talk about all the time, this really comes down to your needs, your goals, your values, what makes life worth living to you, what your priorities are at this stage in your life. What I can tell you for sure is a few things. One, you have some very important reasons to stay at this job for now. This place is doing one great thing for you, which is providing for you and your family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Like I always say, with very few exceptions, beware the coach, the guru, the teacher who has only ever been a coach, a guru, a teacher. As always, we've got some fun letters, some doozies, and I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And as screwed up and dysfunctional and sad as it is, that's one huge thing to be grateful for, and you have to make some space for that gratitude alongside your frustration. Two, I know you feel like you're approaching middle age and you don't have much more time to make career pivots, but I would really interrogate that assumption.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Because, yes, you obviously don't want to make wild career moves every two years in a way that makes your resume incomprehensible. I get that. But you're also, you're not 58, you're 35. If there's something you'd rather be doing, whether it's a new function within the IT world or working at a different kind of institution or building a new career entirely, now is the time, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I'm not advocating for being reckless, you know me. But I also think there's something to be said. There's a lot to be said. for honoring the voice inside of you, telling you that something's not right, and it's time to build a career that fulfills you, that gives you community, and that provides for you and your family. In fact, I'd argue that that's kind of the point here of life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Now, it might take you some time to connect those dots. It'll require a combination of hard work and creativity and patience, but that's part of the fun. And 35, man, is still so young. You have a lot of life to live.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So if this place or any company like this that you might consider jumping ship to, if they're just going to make you miserable, now is the time to really take a step back and ask yourself if this is the path you really want to be on. You know, I had to start my business over at age, I think it was like 37. So worth it. And 2020 hindsight, not that bad. And I'm so glad to be where I am now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You're kind of in the same situation, except you don't really have to start over, at least not like I did, unless you want to. Look, I'm not saying there's some perfect job out there that's going to pay you 300K and surround you with amazing people all the time and never stress you out. That is a fantasy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
But there are jobs where you can get most of what you want or all the things that matter the most to you, and then you can learn to accept or cope with the aspects of the job that you don't love, and that's a lot of life. So my advice to you from here on out is actually very simple, and it's nothing you haven't heard me talk about before.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Your job now is to get clear on what truly matters to you, what your priorities are, write down all the variables, money, responsibility, quality of work, colleagues, culture, flexibility, rank them for yourself, And I would talk to your wife about this. Ask her for her input. Get clear on your priorities together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I know this seems painfully obvious, but sometimes these things are jumbled in our heads until we say them out loud and write them down. You gotta start investing in your relationships if you're not already. You have six months at least until you're ready to jump ship. That's amazing. I would try to book one or two phone calls a week with people in your field.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Also people outside your field, adjacent to your field, and just start widening your network. When you talk to these people, tell them where you are, what you're struggling with, what you're interested in. Ask them if they've struggled with something similar and how they handled it. You are not asking for an interview. You're not trying to get a job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You're just connecting with people and deepening a relationship. And of course, we have way more on this in our six-minute networking course over at sixminutenetworking.com. If you're not there yet, highly recommend kicking that off, starting with that. Also, try to find as much ease and meaning and grace at work as you can in the meantime.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That means focusing on parts of the job that do work well, creating new opportunities or projects that speak to you more, going to work with a positive attitude, a helpful spirit, staying connected to your gratitude, your patience. your perspective on all this and letting a lot of dumb stuff roll off your back, not wrapping yourself around it too much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And at night and on the weekends, your second job is putting a new brick in the wall every week. Could be a person you reach out to on LinkedIn, could be a book you read, could be a skill you chip away at, could be a course or a certification that'll give you a leg up. You know best what would help you, but that is your job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
If you do these things, and they are not rocket science, they're just gonna require conscious effort and consistency, I could almost promise you that a great path will unfold. I can't tell you exactly how or what it'll look like. You can't even know that, but it will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Because when you focus on your relationships, when you invest in yourself, when you show up to your life, the good parts and the bad parts in the right spirit, amazing things happen. You have to be willing to let the path unfold on its own and just trust that all these bricks you collect will add up to a really cool wall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
And the more you do it, the faster the wall will appear and the sooner you'll be out of this place or you'll be rising up in a way that changes the equation for you or you'll be easing into a whole new career that lights you up even more. But whatever you do, do not settle for a life and career that you don't love. Certainly not at your age.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
You can be bold while you're also responsible and you can reinvent yourself without taking on too much risk Or you can decide to show up to this job in a new way, maybe with some new mindsets or approaches that transform some of these difficult dynamics and quirks, or at least make them survivable in the meantime. You got this, man. You have all my confidence and good luck. Go back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Check and check out Dr. Michael Isratel if you haven't done so yet. Great episode on fitness and health. Don't forget about 6minutenetworking.com. It is free. I don't need your credit card. None of that. It'll help you move ahead in your career, your personal life. Show notes and transcripts at jordanharbinger.com.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. I'm at jordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe is on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
If you found the episode useful, please do share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. Are you addicted to drama? Check out this preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with psychologist Dr. Scott Lyons.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Learn to recognize and heal from drama addiction on episode 836 with Dr. Scott Lyons on The Jordan Harbinger Show. This episode is sponsored in part by What Was That Like podcast. Have you ever wondered how it feels to watch your house burn down, be attacked by an alligator, or learn that your spouse hired someone to kill you? What Was That Like is the podcast for you, if you're that person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Not the person who got hired to be killed, but the person who wondered, more thankfully. Real people come on every episode to explain the unbelievable situations they've been through. I think it's a funny concept for a show. I kind of wish I thought of it because I always get crazy stories from people. Not everything turns into a Jordan Harbinger episode. But What Was That Like?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
is hosted by my friend, Scott Johnson, who's naturally curious and gives his guests the opportunity to share. how they've really felt during some of their most surreal experiences, what they did in the morning before an earthquake, what song was playing as a gunman entered, what is their stomach growling as they hid. Guests share everything they remember about their crazy, crazy experiences.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So if you want to hear some disturbing slash inspiring firsthand stories about the thoughts that go through your head while surviving a kidnapping or winning the price is right. What was that like is the podcast you've been looking for. Every story is thoroughly researched and fact-checked so you know even the most unreal stories are actually someone's reality.
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1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Listen to What Was That Like wherever you get your podcasts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Oh, I mean Dr. Jordan Harbinger. I forgot I'm doing that this year. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the candle you use to light all the other candles on the menorah, the light that just keeps on lighting, Gabriel Mizrahi. That's a nice one. That's a sweet one. It's a dated one. It somehow still feels like the holidays.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Wow, this is quite a story. There's so many layers here, so let's get into them. First of all, congratulations on finding a partner you're so connected to. Getting to this level of commitment and intimacy and confidence in each other, it's just wonderful to hear. I also want to say congrats on the baby, if a child is something you both truly want. I'm a little unclear about that from your letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
It sounds like you guys were neutral slash open to it, but not necessarily a hell yes. which does give me some pause as a guy with two small kids that, you know, keep you up all the time and change your life in ways that not everybody is ready for. I don't mean to rain on the parade here. I'm definitely not trying to convince you of anything in this regard.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
If you guys are a great couple, you might be amazing parents, and this is a total blessing, but Yeah, having a child, man, it's a huge commitment for years and years. A child needs parents who are fully invested, fully equipped.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So if you guys are ready to take this on, if having a kid by accident is aligning with your true desire to have a kid together, then hey, I'm overjoyed for you in that case. If not, then all I would say is just be very, very thoughtful about this decision. Again, not trying to push you one way or the other. I know I sound that way right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I just want you to be mindful about the commitment you're making and what you feel you can offer to this potential child. Now, okay, all that out of the way, I'm very sorry to hear about what your father did to your sisters. That is awful. That is, some might say, unforgivable. That's something I want to get to here in a moment. What they went through is very painful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I can't even imagine what kind of trauma they've endured as a result of this abuse. And my heart goes out to them. It really does. I'm also sorry to hear that this has been such a source of pain for you, even though you clearly had no part of this. You didn't have a say in it. That's really tough. And this history with your dad, it's obviously a source of great shame. I can understand why.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I'm not sure why. Probably wishful thinking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Of course, it's very dark, it's gross, it's heartbreaking, it's weird. Who wants to open up about something like this? It's just, it's horrible. So I can appreciate why you kept this secret, perhaps under the guise of not wanting to tell your sister's story for them, although... Look, I would argue that this is your story too, to some degree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
He's your dad too, they're your sisters, but I get why you haven't wanted to let your partner in on this part of your life up until now. Abuse of any kind, but especially sexual abuse, it's just very difficult to talk about. So I understand the bind that you are in now. With a potential child coming, this now feels very urgent, yet you haven't said anything for so long.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Candidly, I see this whole decision a little bit differently. I'm not sure you have to tell your girlfriend about this history of abuse because of the potential kid you might bring into the world. I think you have to tell her because she's your partner, the partner that you're in love with, someone you say is your person, and she feels the same.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
My feeling is that she deserves to know about your father even if you were not going to have a child. Because if your relationship is as deep and meaningful as you say, then I think it should be able to contain a revelation like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Actually, I think it demands it, both on the practical level of, should my dad have a relationship with our child, and on the level of, this is an important part of my story, I want you to know about it. And sharing it might be a powerful way of healing this wound to some degree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Handsome tree number one. Dr. Handsome tree number one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
So to answer your last question first, yes, I obviously feel you'd be obligated to tell your partner about this part of your life, even if you decide to terminate the pregnancy or give the child up for adoption or whatever, and even if there were no pregnancy at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
That's right. New Reddit flare just dropped. King of the pretty trees. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Am I going to have to negotiate between you and them? Am I going to have to choose? This story has got to bring up so much for him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah. And like if he tells her he can't control how she's going to respond.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
I understand that, of course, because the stakes are really high here. This is the love of his life. They might be having a baby together. So in his mind, he's going, oh, my God, I could lose her. I could lose all this. Maybe I'll just never tell her. I actually really feel for him here. But to your point, that's probably a form of control.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
He's trying to control her feelings and trying to control the direction of their relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, which I'm just realizing that's such an interesting paradox. He knows he had no control over what his father did, but now he feels like it could be a liability for him and he's fiercely trying to protect it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
For sure. So he's trying to quarantine this part of his life from her. It's fascinating, actually.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
No kidding. Said the guy with the website jordanharbinger.com. Yeah, he's putting a lot of distance between them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1110: Can True Love Last In Shadow of Dad's Dark Past? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I thought it was very interesting when he said, I don't know if I can trust that our connection can weather anything. I think it can, but I'm so scared that I'll be tainted in her eyes. Again, I totally understand that fear, man. If my father did this, I think I might have struggled to tell Jen about it too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1162: Calculating Courtesan Craves Close Connection | Feedback Friday
Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1162: Calculating Courtesan Craves Close Connection | Feedback Friday
At the base level, a sanction, which is a law or regulation that is intended to disallow access to the U.S. financial system or to U.S. goods or to services from U.S. citizens, is a sanction. People want to hold dollars. They want access to the US system. They want a list on the New York Stock Exchange, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1162: Calculating Courtesan Craves Close Connection | Feedback Friday
These are real elements of power in a global environment where money, power, economic influence is a part of competition and warfare. I often said at the Treasury Department, our job strategically was to make it harder, costlier, and riskier for America's enemies to raise and move money around the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1162: Calculating Courtesan Craves Close Connection | Feedback Friday
But that's the essence of this power, and it sits between the talking of diplomacy and the hard power of our military. And that's why people resort to it so often. But I do think there are going to be challenges fundamentally to U.S. predominance in this space.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1162: Calculating Courtesan Craves Close Connection | Feedback Friday
Challenges to the dollar, challenges to the payment systems, and challenges to the notion that this is the safest, most secure place to hold your money, to invest in, and most attractive place because of our capital markets, rule of law, et cetera. That's why I think some of these state actors have an interest in undermining the credibility of our institutions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1162: Calculating Courtesan Craves Close Connection | Feedback Friday
Like it or not, the economic and financial domain is a domain of conflict and competition. Do you want to be legitimate and be able to operate in the global system?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Well, that's the problem, isn't it? Their dad sounds like a super generous person, such a kind guy, perhaps to a fault. And the idea of standing up to this objectively scary woman and watching his own son potentially struggle as a result, I imagine that's quite painful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And so my first thought is I think your father could use some perspective and some support here more than your brother, really. I think your dad probably needs to be educated a little bit on how his support has inadvertently enabled this woman and what kind of precedent paying for her car and her lawyer is going to set.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And part of that conversation is also going to be reassuring your dad that he's not a bad person for letting her deal with this stuff on her own, and that he's not necessarily abandoning his son by refusing to enable his wife. My guess, and I know I'm speculating here a bit, but my guess is that your dad's kindness makes him very vulnerable to a person like this, obviously.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And people like your sister-in-law know that, they gravitate to that, and they exploit it, or they at least use it to continue coasting as long as they can. I mean, that's basically what's happening here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
There might be more crazy tantrums in the driveway. Yeah. Multiple tantrums. And he needs a plan for how to handle and respond to that when it happens. I think he's going to get it from his daughter-in-law. He might also get it from his son. And that's going to hurt and it's going to be uncomfortable and weird. It's going to be part of the process.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But that's where you can come in and say, Dad, standing up for yourself is probably going to set her off. My brother might call and text you begging you to help them. It's going to be difficult. But that doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong by saying, I'm sorry, but I can't continue to support you guys if you guys are going to make these choices. It doesn't mean you're cruel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
You're just drawing a line and protecting yourself. It just means that they're angry that their lifeline isn't there anymore.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Exactly. And also, if you ever feel like giving in and supporting them again, it's okay for you to say, um, let me think about that and I'll get back to you. And then you can call me, you can talk to your friends, other people, objective people, we can talk about it together and we can decide what to do. But you don't have to give in to anything just because they're mad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
No, but I know what you're getting at. Like, as an older person with some resources, a house, some money, relationships that are apparently useful to them, he is vulnerable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yes, I agree completely. As for your brother, I find it interesting that when his wife was out of the house, he started reaching out to your dad more, he started sharing all of this stuff with him. Yeah. Pretty textbook, and it does suggest that his wife is the reason that he's not close with you guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
The best thing you can do, we talk about this all the time, is keep the door open to him. Make it safe for him to come to you if and when he decides to reevaluate his marriage and repair things with you guys. And you can do that while still being firm and honest with him, right? You can say, listen, bro, your wife has caused immense chaos in all of our lives. She's treated dad terribly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
She's isolated you. She's endangered tons of people. I don't think you or dad have done her any favors by supporting her while she behaves this way. Now, I can only imagine how difficult all of this must be for you, for the kids. I feel awful about that. My sense is that your wife is exerting a lot of control over you, that it's hard for you to stay close with us when she's around.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And if you ever want to talk about how to make sense of that and what to do, I am here for you. But in the meantime, I just can't participate in enabling a person who has been very damaging to everybody in her life, especially dad after everything he's done for you guys, which I really hope you appreciate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And I'm sure that this is very tricky and confusing for you, and I feel for you, but I hope you see that you should not be enabling her either.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah, because, you know, in a way, he needs to go through a kind of recovery process too. You know, and right now, being unemployed, watching his wife spin out, this could be his rock bottom, so to speak. That's very scary and painful, but it could also be a huge turning point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I totally agree. But I would say if your dad does that, I think he needs to do it with very good boundaries.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I cannot argue with that. So you just got back from Asia, my friend. Yes. What was that like? Was it awesome?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Unclear. Yeah, I'm sure there's more to that situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But if they wanted to make it work and take care of themselves enough to take care of the kids, they could.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Well, I think you're starting to understand why child aid is looking into all of this. Imagine throwing a temper tantrum so bad that you had to call DCF in the States. That's like an emergency situation. So the idea of her being around these young children is very worrisome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've spent two decades building my music career, releasing music mostly through my own small record label. Growing a fan base outside the mainstream has been slow but rewarding, and I deeply value the connection I have with fans, many of whom I know personally.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
However, I've been frustrated by a better-known musician in my genre who used to mentor me. Early in my career, he supported me in many ways, offering advice, hiring me for his touring band, and producing two tracks on my debut album. But over time, I sensed that he saw me as inferior, partly because I wasn't signed to a major label unlike him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
He'd called me a hobbyist, implying that my day job made me less serious. Uh, okay. Of course, I did want to be a full-time musician, but by the time I started, the industry had changed a lot, and streaming made record deals much harder to secure. As a result, I did a lot of work for exposure, including a lot of free work from my mentor done on a skills swap basis.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But he never honored his half of the agreement. When I asked for his contribution, he instead quoted me his full rate. This, combined with subtle but constant negging over a couple of years, made me realize that he had no respect for me. I stopped initiating contact, and we fell out of touch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
In recent years, I found moderate success, which has been gratifying. But while this has happened, my former mentor has been making subtle digs at me. For instance, a few years ago, an interviewer who was also a fan of mine asked him whether we would work together again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
He could have been diplomatic, but he said that he'd rather work with other musicians who could help him achieve the things he couldn't do on his own. Ouch. Meanwhile, he's engaging in weird one-upmanship online. I recently posted a video about my excitement using a particular instrument for the first time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
A couple days later, he posted a video of all of his compositions using that same instrument.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
There are other examples, and he has a habit of implying that everything I'm doing, he's done before.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Then, recently, my first album received a critical reappraisal. During the years it went unnoticed, my former mentor did nothing to promote it. But now I've seen him joining social media discussions to highlight his involvement.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
This is handsome boy number one energy. That's right. That's right. Don't you forget it. While I don't mind this, it feels a bit desperate. His contribution was perhaps a couple days work compared to the three years I spent on it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
What bothers me more is that he doesn't correct those who mistakenly credit my work to him, despite being very particular about his own credits. In the past, he's asked fans and DMs to edit his Wikipedia page to boost his credits, and he's peevishly emailed music reviewers to correct minor crediting errors. All of this seems petty to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I appreciate any coverage my work gets, and I wouldn't nitpick small mistakes, especially from unpaid bloggers passionate about music. I could overlook all of this, but one thing he did really upset me. I have dyspraxia, which affects my playing style, though I get by fine and it's more of a talking point than anything else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
It's a condition that affects a person's ability to perform motor and sensory tasks. It's also known as developmental coordination disorder. I had never heard of it until now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I guess it changes the way he plays because he says, my former mentor released a piece of music whose title mocks my playing style. The title also references an old in-joke, so I'm sure it's deliberate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
He presents himself as Mr. Nice Guy online, yet mocking a minor disability doesn't seem like nice guy behavior. I'm usually a turn-the-other-cheek person, but now I'm wondering if I should push back. Have you seen mentors act this way before? Should I call this guy out? Or is this kind of narcissism best left alone? And should I just focus on my work and let any success I have speak for itself?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Signed, Assessing the Need for War Against My Former Mentor
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Makes me so happy. Are you like into holotropic breath work now?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Also interesting that this guy has stepped up his shenanigans after our friend here found moderate success after his first album received this reappraisal by critics, which, by the way, is awesome. And congratulations.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Correct. And what is he supposed to do? Spend three hours a day on Twitter correcting the record, putting out videos mocking this guy? Then he's spending all of his precious time on this kind of pathetic guy who he's lucky, frankly, to be done with. And that is time not spent focused on his music, on his life, which is the only thing that matters.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
People swear by it. People say that they can't do creative work without breathing for 10 or 15 minutes first. I've tried it. It really helps.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Also, I can almost guarantee if this is how he's treating you, there are other people he is treating like this too. And I'm sure that he engages with other successful people who can definitely help his career in a kind of smarmy, self-serving spirit. And that's only going to get him so far.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 27-year-old chemical engineer currently working at one of the US's largest Fortune 500 corporations. Last year, it funded a master's degree program for me. They paid my salary and my tuition while I attended school full-time, which was a pretty sick deal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I was required to sign a contract with the company stating that I would stay for at least two years following graduation, or I would need to repay the tuition. After returning to work, I've enjoyed many parts of my role, but I feel a bit stuck and I'm ready to move on with my career and my life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
The company is located in a very small town that is family-oriented and does not align with my life as a single young person. Also, the values of the corporation are draining.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Recent large rounds of layoffs have generated a lack of confidence in the company's leadership, and there isn't much opportunity for technical growth as the company is largely more concerned with keeping the status quo and playing it safe with its products. Innovation is not encouraged, which makes the job feel a bit soul-sucking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
After looking for jobs in industries combating climate change, which is super exciting to me and would make me proud, I ended up receiving an offer to one of the most notable names in the industry. A huge opportunity. This company is also in a European country, and it would be a chance to live and work abroad, which is something I've always wanted to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
The problem is if I leave now, I'll be required to pay back my tuition support within 90 days of leaving the company. Oh, wow. This is a large sum, about $40,000. I can pay this money, but I would need to dip into my 401k to make it happen. I've looked into other options, but... I don't qualify for any loans with reasonable interest rates as I haven't built much credit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I currently don't have any debt apart from my car loan and I plan to sell my car when I move. I have a year and a half left before I can leave without owing any money. I also mentioned this to the new company and they're not willing to assist with any of the repayment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
If I don't take this opportunity now, I fear I may lose momentum to make such a big move as I'm approaching 30. If I find a partner in that time, I'll be less likely to want to move out of the country and have more to consider when making a career change. I know I could find other jobs, but the next opportunity will be different from this one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And there's so many positives, the industry, the company, the adventure. This could kickstart a long career in this industry with even more job opportunities to follow. Should I pursue my dream at a cost or wait it out and potentially get stuck in a career or an industry I don't want? Am I being too impatient?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
How do I know when it's the right time to take a big risk that could pay off big in the end? Signed, be obstinate about moving continents or remain cognizant that it might be improvident.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah, such a good point. The other thing this is going to come down to is what kinds of opportunities you might create for yourself in this new chapter and also how you're going to invest in yourself along the way. Because look, you could lose 40 grand and go have an amazing few years in Europe at a job that you love. And for one person, a hit like that is absolutely worth it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And for someone else, maybe it's not worth the price. But if you go to Europe knowing that you had to give up 40 grand and you work really hard and you build a ton of great relationships and and you create even more opportunities for yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I mean, I don't know, maybe you carve out a consulting gig, or you start a cool side hustle, or you start speaking at climate conferences on the weekends or something, or who knows, maybe you even meet your future spouse over in Europe, or like you said, you get even more job opportunities down the line that pay you twice as much. Suddenly, that 40 grand starts to look a lot different.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Maybe it stops feeling like just a liability and it starts looking more like an investment. And if you take this job and you move to Europe, knowing that you invested $40,000 in yourself as opposed to just losing $40,000, that might motivate you to make the ROI as high as possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Whether that's working harder at this job, or putting in the effort to really meet people, or just taking trips to cool places while you're living over there, or just soaking up your new city and making sure that you really appreciate this gift that you are giving yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Point is, the value of this 40 grand to you, what it signifies to you, above and beyond the dollars and cents, so much of that comes down to what you do with this new chapter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Dear Gordon and Jabe, I've been married to my husband for a year and a half, together for five. He is charming, funny, and romantic, and we share a lot of the same interests. But he has a dark side. He yells, screams, and criticizes regularly. He disrupts plans, events, dates, emergencies, and holidays by starting fights or by being so sullen that it makes people uncomfortable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
He has broken things, left me places, threatened to abandon me by quitting his job and leaving, and asked for divorces to quote, show me how serious he is, unquote, about whatever it is he's upset about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I know that this is not love. It's abuse. I know I should leave, but I can't help but wonder if this is my fault because I find it difficult to meet his very specific needs. Specifically, when he gets upset about something I've done, he needs me to one, repeat back or paraphrase what he said and use the specific word he used to describe his feelings. Two, acknowledge past patterns in my behavior.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
and how they influence the current situation if he brings that up, which he does repeatedly. And three, apologize by taking responsibility and saying how I will prevent this infraction in the future.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
That third one is extremely concerning to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
The problem is that he monologues. He talks at length and brings up so many different things that by the time it's time for me to talk, I'm turned around. I try to start by talking about the first things he brought up, but he gets angry because I need to start the other way, with what he said last. What? This is psycho, man. It's weird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But when I do repeat back what he said, he gets angry because I'm just repeating. Again, this is not a conversation. This is an interrogation. This is some kind of weird North Korea-style domestic re-education program. This is so odd. Deep down, I suspect that this is about control and moving the goalposts to induce guilt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But I have a nagging fear that he's treating me this way because I struggle to meet this need, or from his perspective, refuse to. Is this need totally unreasonable? Or do I need to hone my active listening skills? What responsibility do I have to meet his needs as a wife? And what responsibility does he have to meet his own needs for acknowledgement and validation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah. My boy did Tai Chi on a hippie dippy small business owner retreat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Signed, taken aback that I'm catching flack from my chap because I guess I don't have a knack for parroting back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah, this guy's not looking for you to be a better listener. I'm afraid that what he's looking for is an object for his rage and his anxiety, and to your point, perhaps a mechanism for control. And I'm getting the sense that that will never end, even if you are quote-unquote perfect, whatever that means.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
This is the greatest story. I'm loving this. This is vindication to me. You have mocked me for two years for doing stuff like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Also, even if those were somehow legitimate needs of his, it is not her job to protect him from feeling difficult feelings ever again. It's just not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I think it probably is in his case. And God knows why that is. I mean, this worries me. I mean, you know, she said that he's loving and funny and romantic. And then he also has this other side in a certain way that doesn't make it better. That makes it worse. It's more confusing to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I have to imagine that there's some kind of trauma in his past to cause these two halves of his personality to take turns.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Well, now it's self-loathing. It's reflected self-loathing now. I'm so happy to hear this. Okay. You did Tai Chi. You were on the boat. Then what happened?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
So my take is, yeah, he has the primary responsibility to meet his own needs for acknowledgement, for validation. You can only support him in that. But more importantly, he has a responsibility to investigate why those needs of his are so profound and why he thinks this is the way to get them met. Dot dot dot therapy. Dot dot dot therapy. But I'm not sure that this guy's going to go to therapy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
No, but she can say, I think you're looking for something that I can't quite give you. You're also making it really hard for me to give it to you in a way that's fair and that honestly makes sense to me. So if you want to have a real conversation where we both get to talk, I'm here for that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
If you want to yell at me for 90 minutes and then demand that I apologize for letting you down over and over again... I'm not really interested in that anymore what I am open to is talking about what makes you angry why you get so angry why you're relating to me like this how I can help you find the acknowledgement that you're looking for that's a different conversation
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I totally get that. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but that is a fair response. I think she can also consider having this conversation with him when he's not in these moods. You know, maybe when he's in his fun and sweet and romantic mood, she can say, hey, can we talk about how we talk when things get difficult? Maybe that's easier then.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Don't say that. Don't lead with psycho. But it's an interesting question. When do you bring this up?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Probably. And how he responds is going to tell her if he's open whatsoever to trying things in a new way. You know, I suspect not, but it would be really good for her to know that for sure before she decides what to do. Let's also remember that this is not just about these monologues. He screams at her. He criticizes her. He ruins parties and holidays by sulking and starting fights.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
He throws stuff around the house. He ditches her in public. He threatens to leave her. I mean, that's more than just being suffocating and needy. There's something very wrong here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I mean, I think it was... No, no, no, no.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Spoken like a real non-English minor right there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I've heard about this documentary. It sounds pretty amazing. I've been meaning to watch it for a while, so I'm going to add that to my playlist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Oh, our amazing listener who creates the flares in the subreddit, can you make a new one called Handsome Boy number one?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I'm going to call you that for the rest of our partnership. You're handsome boy number one. Wait, what did she mean by that? Like you are the most handsome person I've ever seen?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe. I recently and unexpectedly lost my mother, and I'm deep in grief. It was a big loss for many, as she was involved in many charities and clubs around her interests and her disease. My mother suffered with rheumatoid arthritis for over 45 years, but she never let it stop her from achieving and supporting those she loved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Now, in the wake of her loss, I find myself wanting to honor her spirit by paying forward the love and support she gave me, as well as the support of the wide network of friends and family she built for me. I'm not interested in any grand plans like starting an organization, but I'm looking for small actions with big impacts, like my mother had on so many people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Can you suggest any ways of turning this lemon into lemonade? How can I take this dark moment of my life and use it to lighten others? Signed, Moving Through Mourning, by Paying It Forward.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I love all of that, Jordan. I think that's what honoring somebody's memory ultimately comes down to in the end, right? It's just like embodying the best parts of them and telling their story. I've been thinking about this a lot lately too, just how we keep people alive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
It's funny, sometimes I'll do some ridiculous bit with my sister or my family, we'll host a dinner together and I'll just be like, oh man, there's my grandma. It's like she's right here, you know? Or I don't know, you know, you give somebody an extra big hug or you make a certain gesture, like you move your hand in a certain way or you arch your eyebrow in a certain way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And I'm just like, oh, yeah, there's my grandfather. You know, there's my dad who's still alive. But it's like so funny to notice these qualities popping up in you. I was thinking about this this morning, too, because I worked out at home. I didn't go to yoga.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
And a lot of the time when I work out, I think about my grandma, my mom's mom, who until she was very old, this lady worked out every single day. So these rituals, these values, they don't necessarily need to be around philanthropy per se. They can also just be about the way your mom lived her life, the way she saw the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Like Jordan said, how she treated people, how she laughed, you know, what she found interesting or moving or funny. I think that's a great way to celebrate somebody and that can make a huge impact on other people too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I totally agree. Just keep her close to your heart and she'll stick around. I promise you that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Actually, was she ranking you in the people? Maybe there's a handsome boy number two and three, but nobody capped to that one. That is so funny, dude. Well, you're my handsome boy number one now and always. Thank you. I'm going to call you that forever. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Do you think you'll be handsome boy number one in other countries? I don't know. What if you go there and they're like, handsome boy number nine?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
All right, handsome boy number one. Should we get into this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, my brother got married to a woman two years ago, and at the time of the wedding, they were living in Canada with our dad, who was helping them build a two-bedroom house. He's a contractor, and he used his connections to get them deals on materials. Since the wedding, however, things have been off with her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
First, she talked about being transgender, but she did nothing about this fact. She then started to rearrange my dad's house and invite people over, sometimes even overnight, without his knowledge. He often just stayed in his bedroom because he no longer felt welcome in the rest of the house. She even wanted my dad's guests to inform her when they came for a visit, including the family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
She made sure to never be alone with my dad, even getting people to come over to watch when she thought my dad might come home since she claimed she was scared he would quote-unquote trigger her. All of this came to a head one day when my dad was making breakfast for his dog while she was making lunches for her friend's kids who had stayed over the previous night.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
She told my dad to make the dog's breakfast elsewhere and he said that it was his house and he would make the food where he wanted to. Yeah, what is this woman's problem? Jeez. She then moved out and into a tent on the property with their unfurnished house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
She then became pregnant with twins, and she no longer seemed to be fearful of my dad. She even apologized for her past behavior. She gave birth to two beautiful little girls, and things seemed to be going well. Until the twins were six months old. One day, she grabbed my dad's dog and spent the day with him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
After she brought him back to my dad's, he noticed he wasn't wearing his collar for the invisible fence. My dad asked why, and she replied that she had been quote-unquote training the dog, and the collar interfered with his training. My dad told her the collar had to be on him at all times since he's a large dog and he's accidentally scared people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
This caused her to have a tantrum, similar to a toddler. She punched walls inside the house before heading outside, then threw herself on the ground, drumming her feet and crying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
We found out later that she had had another tantrum not witnessed by her family, which led to the police being called and child aid doing an investigation. Now she's not allowed to be left alone with her daughters, and child aid instructed that she had to get counseling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
For the past year, my brother and his wife have been using my dad's house as storage, as their house is too small for them, and using a shower and laundry since their hot water tank hadn't been installed yet. They've been avoiding him when they go over.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
He only notices that they've been there when he comes home to a glass on the counter or my brother calling wanting to know where something is and saying they don't appreciate him moving their stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
There's something about the glass on the counter that just rubs me the wrong way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
My dad feels that he's been taken advantage of. Yes. And has changed the locks so they can't use the house when he's not at home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
The situation at my brother's house is now very tense. He's currently on unemployment because his wife is unable to be left alone with the girls or provide adequate care because she's always self-medicating by smoking weed. Ooh, bad combination. Due to self-diagnosed mental health issues, she has not held down a job for any significant period of time. She's been jumping to conclusions and yelling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
She's disrespected her friends' requests, which has caused them to drift apart. She's even made her godfather, who owns the property that their house is on, to move out. She then started to isolate my brother by saying my dad is abusive, that she didn't feel safe taking the girls there, that he was abusing my brother so he shouldn't even speak to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Well, what worries me about that is like she's self-aware enough to know she has mental health issues. And her answer is, I just have to smoke weed all day to like calm down. But she's not self-aware enough to go, there's something wrong. I need to fix it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Then one day she decided she had to clear her head at 11 p.m. by going for a drive. She was pulled over for going 172 kilometers in an 80-kilometer two-lane highway. So for anyone who doesn't use that system, that's 107 miles per hour. She didn't pull over for long enough that three cop cars were following her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
When she did pull over, the cops noticed weed on the passenger seat and found that her license had been expired for half a year. At that point, she threw another tantrum, blaming the cops and even kicking at one of the officers. One of them had been involved in the child aid investigation, and she managed to calm my sister-in-law down enough to not escalate things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But my sister-in-law is now under a psych evaluation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Since she's been away from the house, my brother has reached out to my dad, and that's how we know what happened. We're waiting for the results and to see if she'll face any charges, which include stunt driving, in other words, reckless driving, driving with a restricted substance in reach, and driving with an expired license.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
The problem is, she's not cooperating with the psychologist and refusing all meds, only wanting to smoke weed. As a result, her evaluation was extended. But she's now home, and we're back to radio silence from my brother. My dad informed me that between the house and my brother's wedding, he's already spent over $17,000 on them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
Now he's looking at the cost of getting the car out of impound and is even talking about getting her a lawyer and paying off any fines she might incur. My brother doesn't have the money to cover any of these costs due to him being unemployed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
I'm afraid that my brother is in an abusive and controlling relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
But that one doesn't hit the same, does it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1084: Dad's Kindness Flows But Her Instability Grows | Feedback Friday
What should we do to support my brother? Should my dad support them financially if this does go to trial? Signed constantly in awe at all the flaws that my sister-in-law is laying at the feet of my papa.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, most people are grateful for the help and they're like, man, help me take this across the finish line for sure. And by the way, everything you just said, I don't think that's just politicking. This person said that she likes and respects her bosses, which is awesome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
So this is really actually just communicating that appreciation, that respect before she delivers the harder news so that they feel that she sees all of them. You guys have done a great job and there's something to work on. It's not just here are your mistakes. We need to fix them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, this is a long one, so I'll just cut to the chase. I'm 24, I live in Michigan, and I want my grandma's house. During the holidays, she very subtly expressed that she thinks she may not have another Christmas. We've all been quietly anticipating this for years. Her 80th birthday was just a couple weeks ago.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
This is the first time she's recognized her own mortality, at least to her family. We joke that she acts like she's 20 and still in college. Her house needs some updates, but it's been in the family for decades, and there's a family cemetery on the land. The house is old enough that it can be entered into a register of historical buildings which would prevent changes to the exterior.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
My grandma hasn't entered it yet, but she might. We don't know. She doesn't talk about it. I would prefer she doesn't, as renovations might become more difficult. Clearly, the house should stay in the family. I truly think that I would be a good fit to inherit it as I have the time, energy, and resources to restore it and be a good steward of the family legacy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I'm the only grandchild who's still in the area and hasn't bought a house of their own yet. Some grandmas lose their filter as they age and will happily have a chat about any topic in the world. That's not my grandma. She's very old-fashioned and generally likes to keep her personal affairs private. She doesn't like to have big conversations, at least not with her grandchildren.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Nobody in my family knows what she plans to do with a house in her will. She might leave it to my aunt or one of my uncles. They would probably support me in taking ownership as they're well-established in their own homes and don't want the responsibility of repairing the old house. But I'd probably have to buy it from them, reducing my resources for renovations.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
There might also be disagreement among the aunts and uncles as to what should be done with it if it isn't explicitly in the will. The last thing I want to do is cause a rift in my family because of this property. If I can talk to my grandma, bring up how I want to stay in the area and how I can care for the house, I do think she'll agree to leave it to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Getting that conversation started is my hurdle. How do I bring this up with my grandma? If I can confirm with her that she will leave the house to me, what's the best way for me to go about inheriting it? Should I ask her to put it in a trust? Should I consult with a financial advisor, lawyer, or another professional? Signed, Angling for this gift, so I can give our family house a facelift.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It's very messy. And I think he's underestimating how much people are going to have an interest in how the assets get divided.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
His stance on this is that they're not going to care. They're already established, which might be true. But also I could see that not being true. I think everybody probably wants a piece of the assets, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Speaking of shady backroom ways of dealing with things, I'm just marveling at how much this family struggles to talk about really important stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
good point she doesn't talk about her mortality she doesn't talk about her plans she doesn't like to have big conversations she hasn't even told anyone if she's entered the house in the historical registry which is like not a controversial thing to share so there are some very important things happening here some important practical matters that impact the entire family that are just not really being properly addressed now our friend here is thinking of doing something similar by trying to talk to his grandma directly instead of starting a conversation with the whole family i just find that
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I don't know. It's interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My oldest sister is married and has three kids. She and her husband have been together for over a decade. He's been the brother we never had and an integral part of the family. But my oldest niece, his 15-year-old daughter, doesn't really get along with him. Her parents have been arguing a lot for a while, and she says her dad speaks poorly of her mom.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Then, this morning, she told me that she was using his old iPhone, which my niece calls the trap phone, because she uses it without her parents' knowledge when she gets her phone taken away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It has no SIM card, but is linked to her dad's Apple ID. On the phone, my niece noticed that her dad downloaded Tinder and similar apps in March 2024 and then again recently. She sent me screenshots of everything and it checks out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And what if she did ever follow through on this plan? He said he loves his stepdaughter like she's his own. I imagine that would be devastating. You know, how do you feel if you cause your stepchild's parent to hurt themselves or something like that? So I understand the predicament he's in. This is really tough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
No, you're right. And if you say that to a partner and you don't go, huh, I wonder why I would want to take my own life if we ever broke up. I need to go work on that. I need to figure that out. Maybe that's part of the problem in our marriage. And the fact that she's kind of laying that at his feet and then not doing anything, she might be talking about this in therapy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And that's a big question mark for me. What kind of work they're doing there to your point? Yeah, just to lay that at your partner's feet without making it part of your self-work is dicey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Interesting observation. It is curious. I think we would need to know a lot more about her. But what I'm hearing in that detail is someone who might struggle to acknowledge failure or even weakness, who might experience that as like a near fatal blow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I don't know. Look, her personality might be more headstrong than resilient. Good distinction. Those are two different things, right? Doubling down and insisting that something will work or not being willing to admit that something's not quite working. That's not always strong, right? That's inflexible. And that's often actually a form of weakness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But being willing to admit, okay, something isn't working here. We either need to make some changes or we need to close the business and try something new. That actually requires greater strength. It requires a willingness to bear the wound of struggling, of potentially failing. You got to be durable. You have to have a capacity for that discomfort.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And also the ability to separate your professional accomplishments from your basic sense of worthiness, which I also wonder if she struggles with, which maybe that was also in the mix. So I'm connecting a few dots here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
We don't know her again, but if any of that is true, then I could see those qualities playing out in other areas of her life, in her marriage, in her mental health, again, in her basic willingness to stay alive if she ever goes through a big loss.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is a little different this week. It's not a product. It's not a service. It's just a thing you can do. It's an experience. And that experience is telling people you don't know personally how they have impacted you. So I'm always really touched when people write me on Instagram or in the Feedback Friday inbox and they're like, hey, I listen to the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I've listened for this long. It means so much to me. I learned this thing. Even two sentences like
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
really touches me and i think a lot of people assume that the people they appreciate or follow or admire or whatever whether it's an author or a speaker or somebody important in their industry whatever it is that those people are just too important or too fancy or too busy to read an email from a stranger
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But I can tell you, and I'm sure Jordan would agree, when you put something out into the world, it means so much more than most people imagine to hear how it lands with people, you know, what it means to them, what they do with it. And you'd be surprised by how often these folks do read these messages and they do respond. Doesn't happen every time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Not a liability for her. Definitely a liability for him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You won't have a hundred percent response rate, but it is absolutely worth it. So if there's a stranger who has impacted your life, my recommendation is take a couple minutes, hunt down their email address, find their Instagram handle, their LinkedIn, whatever it is, get in touch and send them a brief note, just telling them what they mean to you. You can keep it brief.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
It does not need to take you more than five or 10 minutes at the most. Just send it. And I kind of do this fairly regularly with people just because I know how much it means, especially anyone who creates something and puts it out into the world. It's always a rewarding experience. It requires so little effort. And yes, it can lead to cool outcomes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You might strike up a relationship that grows into an interesting opportunity down the line or whatever, but that's not the point. The point is sharing your love and appreciation without any specific expectation. And I'm just a really big fan of doing this. It's made me feel more connected, more grateful, even when I don't hear back from the person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
She knows how to use the trap phone. He does not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
A few months ago, I went to a play here in LA that was so good. And the lead actor was insane, like so stunning. I followed his work for years. I'm a big fan, not even super famous, but just like a master at what he did. And I had one of the best nights of theater I've ever had. And when I got home, I wrote his agent an email and I was like, if you could pass this along, it would mean a lot to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And she said she would. And I never heard back, but I hope he read that email and it just made me feel good to tell him how much the play meant to me. It really does make the world feel smaller, more intimate, and it makes me appreciate it even more when people do it for me. So I say give it a go and see what happens. I think it's a nice little practice to build into your life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
She also saw that her dad has been watching a lot of porn.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I just want to share that with you guys. And I think maybe give it a go and see what happens and see how it makes you feel and see what happens to how you consume things and what your relationships are like, because I find it to be very impactful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
He had things favorited and even searched how to delete it. Well, there's your answer. Oh, boy. Finding out your dad watches porn on his phone and knowing which things he favorited is something no child should ever know about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, My girlfriend listened to your show for years. We met in 2020 during COVID and throughout our relationship she always sent me links to episodes. I never opened any of them. I thought your podcasts were boring as hell. Then again, I thought all podcasts were boring. Fast forward to October 2022.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I was 30 pounds overweight, drank half a bottle of whiskey at night, binge smoked, ate like shit, and had stopped working out. I was also $125,000 in debt from dumb choices. Meanwhile, my girlfriend, who's an amazing person, was the opposite. She watched what she ate, worked out five times a week, and was always working to better herself and those around her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I wasn't always like this, but somewhere along the line, I lost myself. I'd also never shown her affection or talk like we used to. She deserved better. Eventually, she told me that she wanted to break up because we didn't share the same values. One of the last things she said to me was that I never took an interest in the podcasts that she loved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And she mentioned only one, the Jordan Harbinger Show. That shocked me. I thought it was such a dumb reason to break up with someone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Don't even look over. Don't even do it. Just get out. Yeah. So he goes on. A few days later, I was sitting in my truck thinking, damn, she's right. I've been wasting not only my life, but hers, too. Wow. I don't know what moved me to do it, but I opened our texts and found one of the links to your show. I listened and was like, eh, not bad. I love that. Ringing endorsement. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Would you mind leaving that as a review for us? Five stars. Eh, not bad. He goes on, I started going down the rabbit hole of self-development shows and learned so much about health, fitness, empathy, affection, how you need to constantly work in a relationship. Things I never learned growing up. For example, I would always want to argue and gaslight my ex. I didn't even know what gaslighting was.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Right? Oof. You don't want to have access to that part of your parents' lives. Interesting theory. Who knows, though, I guess. My niece and I agree that my sister should know about the cheating. I hate that she's involved, but that ship has sailed. But she's afraid that her dad will hit her or her mom. I've never known him to be physical, and I'd like to think he wouldn't dare.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Then I started listening to your show and I was like, damn, am I a narcissist?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
In short, I kicked my vices, lost a ton of weight, and started the business I always said I would. I'm now about $20,000 away from being debt-free.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Damn, that takes hard work and talent, I imagine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, truly. I've been working hard to confront my trauma, like the gaslighting I learned from my mom, who learned it from her mom. I confronted the little boy who grew up never seeing his dad show affection to his mom. I've rediscovered my love for health, fitness, and travel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I was fortunate enough to go to Bali and Japan for a whole month, and the entire time I practiced gratitude for what I had, what I have, and what will come. And I'm still traveling a lot. Last year, I traveled across Mexico, and I'm planning a China trip at the end of the year. Trauma creates change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Losing the person I loved the most in this world destroyed me, but it opened my eyes. My best friend recently asked me if I could go back and make sure this never happened to me, would I? In the moment, I would have said, of course. Now, I wouldn't. I needed to experience losing someone I loved in order to change. It wouldn't have happened any other way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yep, life really do be like that sometimes. I'm so thankful for her strength. If she never made the hard decision to leave me, I would still be where I was. And if she never mentioned you, I wouldn't have found the information to help me change. I wouldn't consider your show a self-development show, but you randomly gave me a second chance at life, and I'm never going back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I still think about my ex all the time, and I hope she's happy and thriving. I recently found out she has an amazing boyfriend now, and I couldn't be happier for her. I now have an amazing girlfriend and we have a dog. I talked to her about the story and my ex told her how much I learned the hard way. She's remarked on how different I am from her ex-boyfriends.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I've also introduced podcasts to her. Funny how that works.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I'm all for it. No Gary Vaynerchuk for your girlfriend, please. No shade to Gary. I just came up earlier. That's why. I wanted to share all this because I hope that someone listening to this can take a look at themselves and learn from my mistakes. I used to live my life like I had unlimited time, but the truth is, we don't. Every day and moment is running out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Sorry for being so corny, but being aware of that is a gift. Mahalo, Jordan and Gabe, for ruining my last relationship. Just kidding. For saving my life. And a new question has come out of all of this. I've helped a few of my friends change their direction and worldview, and I feel a strong passion around that. How can I reach out to more men, young and old, to help them?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Signed, a guy who lost it all, decided to finally tune into you know-it-alls, realized he had stalled, made a major overhaul, broke through a wall, and experienced a psycho-spiritual windfall.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
But if he does, it's not as simple as calling the cops. He would be deported, and I'm sure my sister wouldn't want that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
yeah i agree the best version of helping other people is putting yourself out there and sharing your story and just looking for ways to be helpful to them as they navigate their own journeys so yeah i like that reddit idea jordan and if people comment on that reddit post and they're like hey i have these questions and you know you have thoughts about that that would be a really great invitation for you to offer some wisdom and maybe strike up a correspondence
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Or if people read your blog post and they ask to chat with you and you're open to that, I say go for it. Amazing. But yeah, I wouldn't necessarily go out recruiting people to help because that's when this can get a little, I don't know, a little life coachy, a little like, I know I've been there and now you need to listen to some things, which, yeah, not the vibe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Seriously, I can't believe I'm the one saying that while we're sitting here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Jordan's just happy you did that because it really helps his numbers, just to be clear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Should my niece tell her mom the news? Do I tell my sister with my niece? If I do, I fear my sister would be even more uncomfortable. What should we do? Signed, charting this map alone after my brother-in-law's rep was blown by this incriminating trap phone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I have a close friend who, when she was a teenager, she found out that her father was having an affair, and she and her brother had to break the news to their mother, and the parents ended up divorcing, and it was a very painful time for all of them. It's still very painful, actually, for the whole family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
He left them for another woman, a younger woman, and they got together, and then that relationship was kind of messy, and then that fell apart, and it was just really bad. I think this is going to be traumatic for your niece no matter what, but I'm with Jordan. There are ways to make it less traumatic for her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
And the main one is telling your sister yourself and sparing your niece that conversation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, two years ago, in my early 60s, I quit my teaching job at a private high school and became an adjunct professor at a large community college teaching English and English as a second language. I absolutely love this work, despite the huge pay cut, and I've been trying to learn and do as much as I possibly can to make up for lost time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I've taken tons of online training and professional development classes, including course design. I've made an effort to meet people in person and create connections within my department. I co-facilitated a recent training on inclusion, and I've joined several committees and even designed a newsletter for one of them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
My goal is to get hired as a full-time professor before I'm too old to think straight.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
What do you mean the microwave? Do you just open it and put the food inside?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
You need a voice activated AI kitchen appliance. That's what you need.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, you would be significantly less sad as a human being. Here's my dilemma. I'm currently teaching a class that is prepackaged, which means somebody in the department designed the curriculum and lessons. While the content itself is fine, I've had to do major overhauls of the course materials so that the students could make sense of the class.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I can't tell you how many times I've opened an attachment for one of these courses and found badly formatted, confusing, or even unreadable documents. There are almost never examples given of what to do, so I often provide them myself. The directions are vague, wordy, and have no links to the materials needed to complete them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
I often see students coming in frustrated out of their minds because they don't understand what they're supposed to do. This is unacceptable to me. My students deserve better. Students at community colleges are already at a much higher risk of dropping out than students at four-year institutions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
If they saw how much care has been put into course design, they would be much more inclined to engage with the material and learn something. I like and respect my bosses, all of whom either helped design or approved these courses. I'm torn between my ambition and my genuine love and concern for the quality of the education we're giving this vulnerable population.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
How can I tell my bosses that we aren't serving our students well by giving them material like this and that I have folders full of edited materials that would make things so much better? How can I bring this up without jeopardizing my chances of going full time? Signed, listening to my idealistic notions without messing up my promotion. P.S.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1133: Should Mum Be the Word When Dad's a Cheating Turd? | Feedback Friday
Also, if you can work the phrase hundo P into a sentence on the podcast sometime soon, I would be eternally grateful. I almost peed myself laughing the last time you said it. And then I tried it out on my adult kids and the death glares they gave me made me laugh even harder. Oh, so you, uh, you hundo peed your pants. Is that what happened?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I agree with that, but that's so intense to hear from a cop. Yeah, you should have taken one of them out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's not how we do things. Wow, that's so crazy. I'm so sorry this happened to you, man. What the hell? This is so intense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So it's really you guys are very lucky. Very. But it's still very upsetting to have this happen to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And our mucus plug has definitely passed on that one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Because I was about to say, are you sure they were police?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Okay? First of all, what is this architectural digest tour that is now unfolding? Can you look for the guy, please?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Cut to you in the hot tub with all these cops. Yes, all the cops. Reviewing not just the security footage from a couple hours before, but like for the last several weeks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, that would explain why they arrived in four minutes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It would explain the response time. It would explain the reflective shoes. These people don't have to worry about getting caught.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
AG1 for the whole department.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
New living wills and trusts for everybody in the department, top to bottom.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a traveling nurse, and up until six months ago, I was friends with a physician who knowingly started a two-and-a-half-year affair with with a seriously mentally ill, drug-addicted patient of hers. My friend said that, at first, the taboo and secrecy of the affair were exhilarating, although she knew it was wrong. But the relationship quickly devolved into abuse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
My friend said she felt compelled to stay for as long as she did out of fear of escalating physical violence and the patient's constant threats to tell her employer and family about the relationship. Ugh. Oof. She ended up quitting the job where she met this client due to unsavory rumors before she could be terminated, then abruptly pivoted to another position.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
By this point, did you see anybody? I'm confused.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Four months later, her affair partner ended up spilling everything during an unfortunate psych hospitalization. When the secret came out, she was fired by her new employer, which then filed a report with the medical board for an ethics violation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
The medical board conducted an investigation and published the findings on the state's website. But my friend hired a very expensive employment attorney to represent her, and in my opinion, the worst of the lurid details and the overall degree of harm were severely underrepresented. Her license is now suspended, and last I heard, she's trying to get it reinstated. Oh, jeez. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And I'm upset by the thought that she felt trapped by a scary, abusive person for so long. But I'm also really disturbed and can't get over what I see as my friend's brazen willingness to overlook her professional ethics and take advantage of a vulnerable, unstable person to meet her own selfish needs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Framed like that, I do kind of blame her for what happened during the affair, but only in the very beginning, when she had more power in the relationship and chose to open that door. She says that I'm being an unsupportive friend for taking that moralistic stance, which unfairly flattens her experience of the fear and abuse, and that that makes me not only a bad person,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
but also an unprofessional practitioner engaging in a disgusting amount of victim blaming. Okay. But this whole situation has made me question whether that's fair. I don't want to be seen as an unapproachable friend for fear of judgment, and I'm having a tough time parsing my emotions. Am I being unfair and overly rigid in my judgment of my friend here?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Signed, am I a clear thinker or am I just pointing a finger?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Which part, the word itself, or it applied to two bros doing a podcast?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I think he voluntarily gave up his license to avoid a full investigation. That was episode 931, by the way. And then we aired the update to that story on episode 961. Fascinating story. Some parallels there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And the fact that she's responding to that by saying you're being an unsupportive friend, you're being moralistic, you're what was it? Flattening my experience of the fear, the abuse. You're a bad person. It's nuts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
If that's actually what she said, what I'm hearing is a person who is just deflecting. I mean, there's a lot of projection happening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Obviously, this brings up some very big questions about her mental state, to your point. I mean, this old friend of hers is either a bit unstable or not fully in touch with reality, or she is so ashamed of what she did that she feels she has no choice but to project all of that shame and hurt and fear onto our friend here, right? Because it's just too uncomfortable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I agree. My only caveat is we don't know exactly how you articulated all of this to your friend. I mean, if you said to her everything you shared with us, then I am 100% with Jordan. You're saying and doing all the right things. You're on solid ground. If you jumped maybe a little too quickly to pointing out her many mistakes or which, by the way, not totally out of line on your part.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm just saying if you did do that a little quickly or if you didn't communicate your empathy as clearly as you did in your letter. or you made this conversation primarily about the ethics thing and she felt misunderstood or overly judged or whatever, then I might, might understand part of her reaction.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I don't get the sense that that's what happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I just have to be even so I can understand what you're saying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
What I'm wondering is, does her reaction to our friend here also speak to her personality? I think the answer is almost certainly yes. Yeah. Does it explain some of her questionable decision-making when it came to engaging with a patient?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's an interesting subplot. I mean, that guy is putting up with a lot. I'm just picturing this woman three years ago trying to decide whether to get involved with this guy. And if she's a person who...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
struggles to control her impulses, who's not very self-aware, who clearly can't bear other people's appropriate judgment of her, who can't confront aspects of herself that are concerning, all of which showed up in these conversations with our friend here. I could also see that person throwing caution to the wind and sleeping with a patient she knows is bad news.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Well, let's also remember that one thing she was getting out of it was a thrill. She said that at first the taboo and secrecy of the affair were exhilarating, although she knew it was wrong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
That's one way to put it. The other way to put it is that we're hearing about a person who's thinking sounds very black or white. You know, she probably struggles to hold multiple feelings, straddle multiple perspectives. So it sounds like from this doctor friend's point of view, she's either a totally blameless victim or she's a reckless, predatory monster.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And her friend, the woman writing in, is either a loyal, compassionate champion or she's this judgmental, moralizing enemy. The reality is that both are true to some degree. I don't think our friend here writing in is the enemy, but the doctor friend could try to have a foot in both of those realities.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm not sure which one of those is more sort of graphic and disgusting, but... I mean, it passes every week, really. That's right. Usually around, I would say, Thursday midday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, yeah, but this is the challenging thing about personalities like this. It can be a little bit disturbing to confront that there are some people who really can't do that. I do think the shame is a big part of this. I would not be surprised if this woman struggles to bear that particular feeling, probably a lot of difficult feelings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I also think that holding multiple feelings and multiple truths at the same time can be very distressing. For some personalities more than others, it can be hard to just bear the tension of that. But also black or white thinking, that's also an example of what's called splitting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So splitting is a really interesting defense mechanism and people tend to engage in it when they need to cope again with painful or overwhelming feelings because splitting simplifies the world. It takes a complicated situation or an ambiguous situation like this one And it turns them into categories that are more easily understood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So when someone engages in splitting, people become all good or all bad, right? Like totally loving or totally judgmental and situations become, you know, totally supportive or completely unfair. There's very little, if any gray area.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Wow. Good point. Yeah. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You know what I really like about this letter? It raises an interesting question, which is, what do we owe our friends when they make a really big mistake? That's a big one, because, yeah, well, it depends, obviously. It does depend. Every situation is unique, of course, and I think everyone's values are different.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You know, different people have different thresholds for what they're willing to put up with from their friends. But generally speaking, I think people deserve precisely what our friend here offered this woman. Empathy, curiosity, understanding, nuance. And also the willingness to say, yo, these are values that I actually believe in. These are the standards that we all need to hold ourselves to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I hold the rest of my friends to the same bar. I personally don't find that judgmental. I find that appropriately discerning, you know, like having some basic strong values around behavior. That's empowering, actually, because what she's saying is, hey, at the end of the day, we're still responsible for ourselves here, especially when you're the doctor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, both my parents immigrated to the U.S., spoke some English, and were very religious. They had six children, and I am the oldest. I played a key part in raising my brothers and sisters and also protecting them, as my parents were physically and emotionally abusive. Many years later, my parents acknowledged that they were limited parents.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
but they still pick favorites among their children. You guessed it right. I'm the responsible one, but not their favorite. Do you think this person means that they said that, or is that just like in the air?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Like they just get the sense that that's what it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, that's like a blatant example. I mean, that's hard enough, but when that happens and you were the one who was tasked with raising the rest of them because they were abusive, that's really painful. I've worked through these issues over time and have managed to create a peaceful and happy life for myself and my husband. That is fantastic. I love that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
On the rare occasion that I visit my family, they're kind to my husband, say hello, and even call or text him. Recently, I gave my sister a gift at her birthday, and she texted my husband thank you. He walks in the warm sunshine of my family, while I'm still stuck in the arctic chill. We generally have a strong marriage, but this really hurts. I've explained to him how it makes me feel,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
and that my expectation is that he draw boundaries by reflecting to my family members that if they want to say something to me, they shouldn't communicate through him. My husband also comes from a broken home and will not visit his family without me. He likes having me there because he says they treat him better when I'm around.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
His family knows that I support my husband 100% and don't say anything bad about him to me because they know that I back him. Yet my family treats my husband very well and me poorly. My husband has seen how they treat me and acknowledges that it's wrong, but he doesn't stand up for me either. How do I deal with this no-win situation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Signed, feeling screwed and looking for a way through, this Kobayashi Maru. Koba what? Yeah, I hadn't heard of this either. The listener came up with this one. So the Kobayashi Maru, I guess it's a training exercise in Star Trek. I did not know about this. Okay. Apparently it's some kind of no-win scenario that's designed to test a cadet's character and skills.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Sounds like something you'd order at the sushi restaurant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Sounds pricey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then there's the Kobayashi Maru.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And then parentified from a young age, which always does a number on a kid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, clearly they can't really try. It must be painful for them. Maybe it's impossible to just even go near that topic. You know, brings up a lot, I would imagine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I was wondering the same, but I assume she would have told us if there was some glaring reason that her family is nicer to her husband. It just sounds like... They're just nicer to him. They're not as kind to her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Or your siblings might be working through their own complicated feelings about you based on this childhood, which affected everybody.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Even the siblings who are your parents' favorites, I mean, being treated as exceptional, as more loved or more approved of than another sibling, that's also damaging. You know, whether they recognize that as a wound or feel it's a point of pride, I imagine that that's also informing how they treat her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I do too. And I'm not totally sure that it's fair to hold it against your husband. You want him to pull back. You want him to say, hey, if you want to say something to your sister, don't text me. Make it a group chat. Pick up the phone. And I get it. Maybe that would be a nice thing for him to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Maybe hearing that would make your siblings realize that they're not being the most thoughtful to you. And if your husband wants to play that role, it's an option. And it might be an interesting approach. He can also do that in a slightly less confrontational way than what you're imagining. He could say, hey guys, you know, just so you know, Mary is actually the one who chose that gift for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She put some thought into it. I'm sure it would mean a lot if you texted her thank you directly, you know, something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Even if nothing changed, that would still be good for you and your husband to know. But look, I'm sure that part of what hurts here is that this dynamic they have with your husband, it's kind of recreating the whole wound from your parents, isn't it? They're choosing someone close to you over you, in a way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And it feels like no one is really standing up for you, which is precisely what you must have felt growing up. You were the responsible one. You were the one making sure everybody else was safe, that everybody else was well cared for. And based on what you've shared, it sounds like no one was really doing the same for you. So of course this hurts, extra hard.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And of course you want your husband to stand up for you, I get it. I also think it's important to see that this anger and the sadness that you feel which, by the way, totally appropriate and important, but they might not be feelings you can reasonably ask your husband to fix on his own. Because first of all, I'm not convinced that he can, although it might be worth giving it a shot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Second, even if he does succeed, that's not going to change the past. Healing that pain is something that only you can ultimately do. And you would still be interacting with a family that, whether they intend to or not, seems to cause you a lot of pain. Your parents anyway, sometimes your siblings, since they seem pretty unlikely to change at this point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I guess what I'm inviting her to do is to be more curious about what she's actually bringing to her husband when she asks him to do this. What are her expectations around this request? Because given who her parents are and how they treated her and the role that she played in this family, I think what she's asking her husband here is more than just, Hey, can you be on my team? Can you help me out?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I have to imagine that there's a wish buried in that request, kind of a longing, a very profound longing to not feel alone, to not feel undefended, to not be abandoned again. And again, that is so fair. But as a starting point, it might be helpful for her to fully appreciate what she is actually asking her husband to do, what she's saying to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
and why it hurts her so much when he doesn't stand up to them, which, whether that's his job to do or not, is ultimately not his fault.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. And if she sees that, it won't fix everything overnight, but it might help her feel a little less pain around it or give her a better sense of where to direct that pain. And at that point, I hope that she would be in a better position to decide what to do about this anger, about the sadness, because...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You know, maybe she decides that she does need her husband to help her with her siblings. But if nothing changes, maybe it won't hurt as much because she'll now have better expectations. She'll know what she's invested in this outcome. Or maybe she decides, you know what, I'm going to text my siblings myself. I was kind of outsourcing that to my husband. Now I see why.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But let me give this a go, you know, and maybe she texts them like, hey, guys, it's really sweet that you text Dan. I love that you guys have a relationship with him. But if you ever want to say something to me, just text me or text us both. You know, it would mean a lot to me and it would really help us stay close. Nice. I like that. Or who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She might decide to take this anger and sadness to her parents. You know, hey, mom. Hey, dad. I know this is tough to talk about, but there's some stuff about my childhood that I'd like to share with you. Or there are some things you guys do today that still kind of hurt my feelings. And I'd like to work on it if you're open to that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, like maybe they can, maybe they can't. But in a way, that's not really the point. The point is, how can she be fully in touch with this wound? How can she have a better handle on her expectations for how it gets resolved?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And in a world where her family doesn't treat her any better, can she learn to hold this anger and the sadness and the grief on her own and find her own ways of working through it? That's what her letter is really about, I think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've worked at my current company for almost 15 years. Our brand is currently number one in our industry. It was privately owned when I started and has since gone public during my time here. Recently, the CEO of our parent company announced that our headquarters will be moving from our current blue-collar city to a much larger metropolis.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Associates are being given the choice to opt in or out for the move. If we opt in, we receive some pay increase and assistance with moving expenses. If we opt out, we receive a six-month severance, but only if we stay until a certain date, which is still being determined. The best estimate for the big move is around two years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I have a wife and kids and am well settled in my current location, so I have no interest in moving. I haven't received my pay package yet, but from what I've heard from those who have... It doesn't even cover the cost of living difference.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Now I'm stuck deciding between jumping ship now and missing out on my severance or sticking it out till the end and entering an unknown job market years from now. If I leave now, I leave a significant amount of money on the table. But if I stay, I worry what work life will turn into as associates begin to leave and remaining associates become less engaged.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Also, our executives estimate that only 10 to 20% of associates will make the move. I fear that it will be far less. Hearing that and knowing they're okay losing 80% of the company that helped us reach number one in our industry really hurts. What advice do you have? Any Dark Jordan suggestions? How do I stay motivated if I do stay?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Signed, in a bad mood about this headquarter move, should I stay and get paid or avoid getting played?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, good point. I totally agree with that. Also, I find it really interesting that he has such an emotional connection to this place. You know, he's loyal and he's passionate. And I find that really sweet. I mean, that says a lot about him. He sounds like a really solid employee, but his company is also making a big decision here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
They're trying to move the whole company to another city from this blue collar town where he lives to this big like they're moving them to New York City or something. They're apparently willing to lose like 80% of their staff along the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I mean, that did occur to me. It makes me wonder if this might just be an easy way for them to clean house without having to fire 80 to 90% of their staff, or at least to find out who's, you know, quote unquote, serious enough to stick with them. But either way, it's a brutal decision.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So I know this hurts and that's part of what he's wrestling with and how is he going to stay motivated when his colleagues start to leave and all of that. But given what his parent company is doing here, I do think it's worth asking if this emotional investment in this place still makes sense. I get why he feels that way because he worked there for 15 years and he helped get them to number one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So his investment is beautiful and is logical. But this might be one of those tea leaves that you just mentioned, Jordan. Time to notice when your attachment to this place is not always being reciprocated or reflected by your employer. And maybe that'll also make it easier for you to know when to leave, when to make this decision.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Or they're positioning the company for private equity and they're just trying to slash costs. Could be. Right. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is a docu-series called Balin Out Loud. Jordan, have you heard about this show?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You got, you're like a security talk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Also very useful. So Balan out loud is this reality show about a young woman named Balan Dupree who became famous on tech talk because she has a very severe case of Tourette's syndrome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And specifically, she has this, I guess it's a type of Tourette syndrome or it's a type of tick called coprolalia, which is basically a disorder that's characterized by involuntary repetitive movements and the tendency to use obscene, inappropriate, offensive language.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And she would post videos of herself doing really normal things like baking or cooking or hanging out with her family or friends or whatever. And then she just yells out the most, I gotta say, the funniest and most offensive tics you can imagine. And the thing about her, I mean, I don't know much about her personally. I'm starting to get a little bit of a sense from the show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But she has a really good sense of humor about it. And I think she knows and everybody around her knows that the tics that she picks up, the things she screams out, the gestures she makes are objectively hilarious. but they're also really deeply debilitating and they're preventing her from living what we consider like a normal life. Like she can't live on her own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She could hurt herself in the kitchen. She can't easily go out in public. When she does go out in public, it often she creates a scene and people stare or they get offended or whatever. But the way her TikTok and Instagram accounts just really capture like the duality of her disorder is fascinating. It's like, she's kind of celebrating how absurd and funny her ticks are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And she's also shining a light on how serious this syndrome is. So there's a new docu series on TLC, which you can find streaming on max that follows her all around. And I got to say, I'm not really a reality TV guy. No, I am riveted by this show. And it really shows you parts of her life that her Instagram account, her tech talk account do not really get into.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Those are great too, but this gets into her personal life and what she's trying to do and her struggles to individuate from her family and settle into an adult relationship, get a career, get a job when she really can't control a lot of what she does and says. It has really opened my eyes to what it means to live with a disability in addition to being objectively entertaining.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
And I got to say, Jordan, there's this one moment in the show. She's at a particularly difficult moment, I think. And she says, I don't know what to make of this. Why was I born with this syndrome? Why am I this way? And she says something so heartbreaking. She says something to the effect of, I love God. Why did God make me this way? I know there must be a reason.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Like I have something to offer the world. I have a meaningful life to live, but it's so hard for me to do that with this disorder. And she's like, the show is basically watching her figure out what that purpose is and how she can be a full human being when she lives with this thing. It is fascinating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She does it constantly, but dude, the tics are so much more absurd and so much more specific than what you just said.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You have to watch it. It's so...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, that's one of the most interesting parts of the show. She has a boyfriend and they're in love and he's like very understanding, but there are unique challenges in their relationship when they go out in public. It's really something. I think you guys are going to like it. We'll link to it in the show notes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
All right, what's next? So our last letter today is an update from the guy who was essentially reverse catfishing his catfisher. That was episode 1093. Yeah, insane story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Catfished by someone in his own family who might or might not have been vaguely flirty with him when they were in person together. Unclear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Except the kicker was that he has like a real crush on this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Right. And what are you getting out of this? What is this role play slash reverse catfishing situation allowing you to explore that might be worth confronting? That was the real question. Yeah. It's so bizarre. Really one for the books here. So the letter goes, Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I listened to your advice a few weeks back to keep it cool with my catfisher and thought it made perfect sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But then I wondered how much better it would feel to be held in those strong arms and thought, damn it, I need to give this a go.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So I asked myself the same thing, but I've corresponded with him a bunch and it seems to check out. But yeah, I mean, obviously he knows that we're kind of hoping he keeps this up so we can hear what happens. So there's that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
But I had to be careful, so I decided to wait and see what his next move was before taking action. Strangely, the catfisher went quiet over Christmas, so I decided to wait till our family's big New Year party we do every year. My plan was to make sure I was next to him at the countdown to midnight, then swoop in for a hug and a kiss to see what the reaction was.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
If he wasn't happy, it could be laughed off as a New Year's thing. But if he was comfortable, it could give me a sign.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It sounds like the reverse. Oh, man. All right. So the plan was planted juicy one on him during old long sign. Okay. Yeah, that's one. That's one way to do it. So he goes on. The New Year party was underway. And after an hour or so, my wife's cousin appeared on her own without her boyfriend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She got teary and admitted to the girlfriends that she had split up with him just before Christmas because she kept catching him messaging people and he wouldn't hand over his phone. Looking over his shoulder, she spotted his ex-girlfriend's picture, so she assumed he was intimately messaging his ex, got furious, and threw him out of the flat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Unclear. Yeah. But he said messaging people. So it sounds like there are others.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So he goes on then trying to find out more. She went to confront the ex-girlfriend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
This must be so weird for every other week. Another person from this family is like, Hey, what's going on with you in the photos? She must be so sick of this. At that point, her ex told her what none of us had thought to ask, what he was doing with the ex's photos in the first place when they were together a couple of years ago.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
She said she was suspicious when he was online a lot and had some unexplained absences. Then she saw that he had gone into her phone and sent himself pics from her collection. She confronted him and he admitted using her pictures to message guys because he was quote-unquote verifying their fidelity. and said he was being a bit of a vigilante. That's why he usually picked people he knew.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
He was trying to weed out rogues and do a service to women. But she thought it was weird and had enough drama, so she ended it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, neither do I. Also, he has way too much time on his hands.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
First of all, I do that very rarely. All right. Second, the first hot yoga class that day that I told you about was way too easy. So I didn't get my usual fix. Okay. And three, I, I, yeah, I might have a little too much time on my hands some days.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I don't know what to say, but at least I'm working out. Yes. I'm getting something done. I'm not sexting them. The men in my family. It's so insane. I'm not sexting the men in my family to see if I can take them down.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, but like you said, there's clearly something else going on. I feel like he's getting something else out of this. I mean, at a minimum, it must be that he feels powerful or something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So he goes on. It wasn't clear whether his absences in that past relationship were meetings with people he catfished or something else. Just imagine what this guy's double life is like. Like, what else is he doing? So strange. When I heard all of this after the party, I felt a thrill.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
It sounded like there was some potential there, but there's also a risk of my details being found on his phone in the future if things ever blew up. However, if anyone ever did find it, they would assume that I was the victim, as I never called out the catfishing, so it would look like I was just a dumb guy being flattered by a good-looking woman giving a boost to my masculine credentials.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Now that he's been ostracized by the ladies, I reached out to him as myself, offering sympathy and a ketchup drink.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
The potential hit to my reputation for acting on this has been removed. The catfisher is away from the nosy cousin, so rumors are less likely. My information on his phone wouldn't look dodgy. and I have a chance to get closer to him because he's pushed others away, so there's genuine sympathy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm not great at reading signals, so this could be risky, but worth a go, as otherwise I'll regret doing nothing. Okay, I mean, you might also regret doing something. But he's only replied to say thanks, and he's thinking about it. I'm wondering if the cool response is a bad sign, or maybe he's feeling guilty about the situation? Unnecessarily, of course.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I don't want to seem desperate, so I think I'll wait to see him again in person before following up on all this. Even if our relationship doesn't go beyond a stronger friendship and remains at hugs, that's better than nothing. I still get to feel those arms around me. I think this is a pretty great outcome. What do you think? P.S.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Have you thought about doing an episode on people who need to live double lives? Whether for political, religious, or social reasons, the effort, stress, and trouble is something most people don't even know exists, but has real impacts. Clearly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah, we get it, man. Signed, still entangled with this catfish and working up to my true wish.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, this letter is objectively entertaining, but I don't know, man, it makes me kind of sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Totally agree. Also, one of the interesting details he included in this new letter is that he's not great at reading signals. So he might not be reading this situation clearly at all. He might not be properly assessing the risk here. He might not be sizing this guy up correctly. That actually worries me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So their plan, just to be clear, they either thought no one was home and they could just do a quick burglary or they were planning on what holding you guys hostage while they did it. Like, what's the deal?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I mean, that gives me some comfort that they're not super... professional or good at this, but my God, that's so disturbing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
So has it been hard to stay in the house since then?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
You don't live in a purgy neighborhood. No. Is this stuff happening more in your area?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I was about to say, your neighbors must be taking notes on the security stuff that you're looking into.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And how are the kids since this happened? Do they understand what happened?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
People should break in more often.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
I'm sorry. I thought for a second, you're like, I really wish I smoked a fat dude before this happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Speaking of which, you had yourself a night the other night. You want to tell us what happened over there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday
Um, um, I've just been looking at too much Reddit. That's where my eyes are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I told him where I stand, what my boundary is with strip clubs and inappropriate situations like this, and after three days, he finally said that if I'm okay losing out on contracts, then this type of thing will never happen again. He said it like I was stifling his work relationships, which hurt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You know that's what Dave calls himself at his events, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Used to be in coiled tubing, now I'm a derrick hand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Again, why are you freaking her? This is, you're like on, you're on one today, dude. It's an opiate thing. It's five mil Barbie right there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Oh yeah. And the cops busted it or something?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I was about to say, didn't you date one of the cops after that? I did.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
How real is this type of thing among men? Is it really the case that women just don't get it because we don't get subjected to these types of situations? What would you do if you found yourself in this type of scenario? What would be an appropriate way to kindly decline such an invitation without making everyone else feel dirty? Should you make others feel dirty if they're married?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Fake an excuse to get out of it? What is the etiquette around these types of situations? Signed, hoping to look afresh at whether my husband's still a mensch when he's networking in the flesh.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
No, apparently in some industries it's still madmen. It's wild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Rub elbows with the right people and rub other parts of your body on the wrong ones, apparently.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I'm sorry. It was right there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So did Mercedes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So this is a real thing. I think you should do Oxy every time we record. Yeah. I've completely changed my opinion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, go to my headshot guy. Then you'll be, what, a handsome boy zero?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Seriously, you never heard of softball?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But then even if that's true, events like these are still going to happen and other men are going to be there and those men might not play softball.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, like Dave the drill operator, you think this guy's generous with endorsements? I don't think so. So it's like whether you like it or not, whether it's gross or not, Is it possible that the only place to meet certain people or to bond with them is at weird places like this? It's possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Handsome boy zero? I don't know. I don't know. The handsome boy hierarchy, though, is getting more and more real. The HBH.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
The other reason she's angry is that she has some very strong opinions about the legitimacy of events like this, but even more importantly, what they say about the men who participate in them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
She's not entirely wrong, but I share your view, Jordan, that this kind of thing is, it is kind of weird and sad also, but I don't know. I'm worried that I'm a little biased. Like, I'm famously not a strip club guy. Like, the whole concept is a bit odd to me, so I don't really... get it. Maybe that's not fair.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Strip club with fountain in Kathmandu. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That was the name.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That was so sad. The networking was pretty lit though. I will say that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It was an investment in my career, obviously. But so part of what's so upsetting to her is that she has these judgments, these perhaps fair judgments, but also maybe these rigid judgments about what events like this
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Plus you were probably like 15 and a half. You just got your learnings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But to your point, it felt like a violation because of the way he handled it. He stayed so late. He was out of touch. He might have lied about the event from the get-go and then played dumb, which is kind of like a betrayal on top of the main offense. Whereas if he had come to her in advance and said, look, There's this networking event. I think it could be really helpful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I'm getting the sense that it might be a low-key guy's adult thing. There might be some strippers there. It's going to be a guy's night. I'm going to go for a couple hours. I'm going to make some contacts. I'll be home by nine. How would you feel about that? That would have been a very different story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Because he knew she would be mad. But she's not going for it in part because he lied. So this kind of thing comes down to the way they communicate, in my view, and to your point, the spirit in which he's going. Because I think you can tell when your husband goes to a naked hotel party because there's a guy who works at Chevron he really wants to meet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And when he goes to a naked hotel party because it's a naked hotel party and the women are naked at the hotel. Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Why are you pretending like they don't know why you're in pain? You talked about this last week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I had not considered that. That's a fair point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Although I really hope he means I'll tell you in advance and not after the fact or in the middle of it, you know, texting her while Mercedes hand feeds him jumbo shrimp or whatever. Like, yeah, this party is different from what I thought it would be. Just wanted to let you know. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Right. Like, is he being truly hypocritical here or does it mean something different when a guy goes to a strip club or a naked hotel party?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But if she does it, apparently it's cheating. Like it's a big deal. That makes me confused. So is he behaving in a way that he would never tolerate from her? Because if so, that's a problem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Oh, I see. You don't want people to know that you upgraded to Oxy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It makes me like bitter and my temper gets really short and I just kind of snap. I just not, I don't understand. Damn it, Gabe, stop rambling. We have a show to do. Oh, shoot. I took it when I got shoulder surgery and I suddenly became like this really crotchety person. I was like, what is going on right now? Oh yeah, I took a weird pain pill.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You do seem a little silly. It's kind of fun.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
MC5 Millie on the ones and twos over here. I'm loving it. All right, let's do it. Dear Jordan and Gabe.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
my elder brother has always been a source of pain in childhood he used me to take the fall for him tell mom and dad that santa claus isn't real go and see how tall this cliff is tell our sister that she's adopted that kind of thing jesus that's so dark this sounds ridiculous as i'm typing it yeah but these examples are just scratching the surface of our relationship
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
What if they didn't know? The kids figured it out first. That's actually kind of funny. I'm guessing he means his brother made him tell the parents that the kids knew he wasn't real.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Either way, that sounds really cruel.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I don't know.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
After he graduated college, got married, and started a family of his own, he gradually stopped coming to a lot of family gatherings. But the rest of my family loves him and extols his virtues, how much money he makes, how he gives a lot of money to his alma mater, and how he gives extravagant gifts. But this generosity has not extended to my family.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
He's always given my children gifts that I have either asked him not to, like Disney princess merchandise, or that is for children several years younger than their actual age. He sends me birthday cards stating that I'm his favorite niece, favorite grandmother, favorite teacher. It's what passes for humor for him. Granted, the variety can be somewhat creative, but
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It also allows him to avoid acknowledging me, or my wife or kids, as a person. And my wife receives nothing entirely. Though I can understand the age problem, as he hasn't seen my kids in years, he most recently sent my daughter four different packages of archaic 9-volt batteries. Another package arrived for her containing three pounds of nuts, and she has a tree nut allergy.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
He's seen her firsthand puking all night from coming into contact with them in the past.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
The nuts arrived by themselves after I texted him to stop sending her obsolete batteries. Prior to that, he had sent her a package that included food to which I'm allergic, and it's an allergy that's much less common than nuts.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that this may have been a mistake, but at first he tried to make it seem like he was being funny, then denied knowing my daughter had the allergy. Maybe I'm seeing all of this through a jaded lens, but... It's hard not to after all the years of similar behavior.
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Yeah, you're supposed to like, it's like low-key heroin. It's supposed to be nice and fun, but it's not for me. I just don't feel great on it.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Or does this guy just have like a really weird sense of humor and it's not landing the right way with our friend here?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's a little bit odd. But I don't know. I have to say like sending somebody a card that says you're my favorite niece when it's your brother. It's kind of funny. It is kind of funny. We have a bit in our family. My sister's really into this.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
she'll buy me balloons and stuff for my birthday or we've done this with my mom where it's like you go to cvs and you get the balloon that says like congrats on the twins or whatever but it's just right hey buckaroo yeah for like a four-year-old it's totally not appropriate to the situation it's just the thing we do but i don't know that's one thing giving a kid nuts after you saw her vomiting at the house because she ate brazil nuts and now you're sending her like yeah that's weird there's something weird i don't know
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So he goes on. At Thanksgiving with extended family, he called to FaceTime with everyone. He relayed his side of the story, which was that Amazon got the address wrong and kept sending things to my daughter. What? Is that a thing?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Oh, he did like a subscription and then he didn't update the address or something and it just kept saying.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Okay. There's a pattern. Okay.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
The thing is, he was laughing through all of this in a manner that had three different family members face palming and shaking their heads. Mm-hmm. Two of them separately apologized to me on his behalf afterward.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Also interesting that they're apologizing on his behalf. I kind of hold that alongside the fact that they all idolize him.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
If I had made a mistake like this, I would be falling all over myself apologizing and trying to fix it. But I also realize that I can't judge other people for not reacting the same way I would. I'm now struggling with my response to this.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I'd like to cut all ties with my brother, but I have medical power of attorney for my parents, and he has financial power of attorney, and one of them has early dementia. Dark me would like to ask him to justify... Jordan, you've started a whole movement. I know. What is happening?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Dark me would like to ask him to justify, in a group text to all of our family members, why he would send my daughter nuts. But he has a way of bringing up all of someone's past mistakes and making things their fault. I'd call him, but our conversations end with him blaming me for anything and everything. Am I being too sensitive about this?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Given that everyone else loves my brother, am I the a-hole here? Are there other paths I might take that might preserve family harmony and not subject my children to harm? Signed, Managing my allergy at a brother who's famously bastardly. Is he dastardly for refusing to behave mannerly, or is he just doling out gifts haphazardly?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Which is like, you have like an Elon Musk related... license plate, right?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and I didn't even have to do oxy.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Also, when you grow up in a family like this, where one sibling treats the other siblings poorly and gets validated more by the parents and everyone loves and respects that sibling more for reasons, by the way, that sound like they have more to do with money and external success than, you know, like actual character. Yeah, actual character. Exactly.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I'm connecting some dots here, but I imagine it could be hard to really own your experience in a family like that and say, this really sucks. This hurts. Like, this is not cool. So just asking the question, am I being too sensitive about this?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
might itself be a symptom of this painful relationship with his brother and perhaps this difficult childhood in general and also this interesting comment he made that he feels he can't judge other people for not reacting the same way he would look there might be some wisdom to that but i also kind of hear him saying i don't know if i can hold my brother to a reasonable standard because he's wired differently which i'm not sure is actually fair like why can't he expect him to behave well
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It's interesting in a way I appreciate that you're going, man, if everyone else loves this guy, what is wrong with me? What am I missing? Am I just looking? Yeah, he's self-aware. Am I just looking for reasons to hate him? You know, do I need to adjust? And that is probably one big way that you and your brother differ.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Just in the fact that you can even consider whether you're wrong, why other people are having such a different experience of him from the one you're having. So there's something kind of grounded and healthy. And yeah, to Jordan's point, self-aware about that. But again, given the facts here, it does sound like you have a few legitimate reasons to be kind of hurt. concerned at the very least.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So here again, I would invite you to explore what this question reveals about you and your feelings, the way you might decide how you feel, whether you even have a right to feel, by reference to other people's opinions.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And then now he's now he's advisor to President Trump.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I agree. This conflict is between the two of them. There's a way to have it that minimizes the drama. Creating an audience and putting your brother on the spot in front of a bunch of other people, people who, let's remember, think he's a saint, I'm afraid that's only going to antagonize him. You're not going to be inviting your brother's best self to that conversation.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
The best way to confront your brother, if that's what you feel you need to do in order to move forward here, I think is to approach him calmly, respectfully, hopefully with curiosity rather than judgment, even if your judgments turn out to be correct. So, for example, if you want to talk about the nuts thing, instead of going like, how dare you send my daughter nuts?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Like, you know she has an allergy. You were there when she almost died. Like, what are you trying to do, kill her? I might say... Look, there's something I've been struggling with. Last year for Katie's birthday, you sent her a bunch of nuts. But I also remember you were there that night. She came into contact with them. Like, you know, she has a severe allergy.
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I know maybe it was some kind of joke, but it left me surprised and it left me confused. And I'm just wanting to understand, did you forget that that happened? Did you know and didn't think it was that serious? Because I'm really having trouble understanding why this was a thing. Like, help me understand.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You almost have to play dumb a little bit and make room for the most charitable explanation so you don't activate a personality like this. I think it's going to be a lot harder for him to lash out and blame you if you're just inviting him to explain something really calmly that just doesn't make sense.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Right. And he didn't say this, but I'm assuming a few things like conflicts between siblings are so complicated. Right. Like you're talking about the nuts. And before you know it, you're like, and you made me tell mom and dad that Santa Claus isn't real. Right. You're bringing up all these things and emotions are running high. It's just really hard to stay grounded. Mm hmm.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So you have to go into a conversation like this with a really solid plan and just be overcorrect, basically, so you don't get too heated. But as long as you can't know what your brother's intentions are for sure, I think you need to be careful about the story that you lead with. So you can make sure that you're giving your brother and yourself the best possible chance of resolving this conflict.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And the same goes with all of the other problems between you, the big ones, the small ones. As for not subjecting your children to more harm, that might just be about telling your brother not to send you guys weird, random, potentially lethal gifts anymore. It's so interesting, Jordan. I just connected something I hadn't thought about.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I have an uncle in my family, I think I've talked about this on the show years ago, who gives the weirdest gifts. My sister has talked about this on stage a lot. He gave everybody ladders one year. Not like step stools, like 30 foot ladders to a bunch of people in the family. How did he deliver those? He just ordered them? He had a big car or truck or something
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And my mom literally was like, I'm not accepting this gift. Like I can't put it in the car and I live in an apartment. So I don't know why you think I need a 30 foot ladder. Oh my God. That's weird. He gave me a really, well, actually there's a pretty cool gift. He gave me a really cool hunting knife, which I've never used, but it's a vegan knife. So there's that.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's like the least useful gift he could have given me. But like he would always give really odd gifts and he is an odd guy. And in fact, over the years, we've appreciated that there's something he's different. Like his brain works differently. And it makes me wonder if maybe that's part of the mix here. Like is his brother... I don't know, like he has this odd sense of humor.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Maybe he doesn't read social cues very well. Maybe he gets overwhelmed when people point out minor flaws and he can't relate. I mean, there are so many things that might explain this kind of behavior that don't necessarily mean he's malicious.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
He might be a little bit of all of it. I don't know.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Anyway, I know our friend here is not just talking about physical harm. He's also talking about emotional harm. So I guess my advice is just to sit with these stories and these feelings that you have about your brother and also to really allow yourself to own them in a way that might be hard for you sometimes. and see if you can confront them with your brother in a new way.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
My hope is that he responds differently to you if you lead in a different spirit with a more peaceful approach. And then you can decide if you need to radically redefine your relationship with him, like if it's really necessary to not talk to him anymore or not accept his gifts anymore, or if you just need to put him in a different place in your life.
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If you need to just remember, oh, Joe requires this version of me to deal with. And in other words, you just develop some better internal boundaries. Or if you just need to put him in a different place in your life, like Joe gets this version of me and that's how we get through it.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Oh yeah.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So this next one is actually an update on perhaps one of my favorite Feedback Friday stories we've ever gotten. A letter from a really remarkable young woman, an Indian girl who grew up in Georgia, to very traditional, very conservative Indian parents. who put her through a lot.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I mean, Jordan, I don't know if you remember all the details, but they were trying to set her up with Indian men, many of whom were pretty bad, like just bad news, not a fit. They made fun of her appearance. They demeaned her, even though she was incredibly, is incredibly accomplished, intelligent, financially stable.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yes. And then in the middle of all of this, she meets this British soldier who we ended up calling Bridgerton, which I hear after I corresponded with her, he did not fully appreciate. And I just want to apologize to him for calling him Bridgerton. But we were referring to him as her Bridgerton fever dream because he was like this hot, awesome, sweet, sensitive soldier who I guess was stationed.
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I can't remember exactly where he was stationed or how they met, but they started dating. It was a long distance relationship. They would see each other in person when they could. They fell in love. And this guy changed her life, but she couldn't tell her parents that she had met the one.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Very moving, very remarkable story. And basically her question in her original letter was, I'm planning on making the move to the UK to be with this guy by the end of this year. She said it was easier for her to move there. She loves it there. She'll do anything to leave this place. But her question was, do I tell my parents about my boyfriend before I leave or after I've left?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And how honest should I be about the timeline of our relationship? And a lot of our answer focused on the upsides and the downsides to telling her parents the full story.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But ultimately, I think what we spent the most time talking about is how to build a life that is hers, how to embrace her own values, her own goals, and chart a path that is really her own and to pursue this really beautiful relationship with what sounds like an incredible guy. Who hates you. Hates the parents.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So she shared an update with us recently, and that's what I'm going to share with you now. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm writing this to you while sitting in my now-empty apartment, waiting for my parents to drop me off at the airport. My bags are packed, and I'm just waiting for my cat's travel drugs to kick in.
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Long story short, after some, I will say, she sent me photos of the cat, and this cat is so cute. I just want to shout out to her. She's also high as a kite right now. The photos, I don't believe the cat had popped an oxy like you. I see. It's just a cute cat.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Long story short, after some very tough conversations with my parents and lots of introspection this year, I finally decided to move to the UK with my amazing boyfriend.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Last week, I had the big conversation with my parents and broke the news to them.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Well, it was complicated, as expected. Sure. To avoid a confrontation like the last time I tried to talk to them, I sent a voice memo explaining my move. I framed it primarily as a career move, which I'm glad I did, given their response. At first, the conversation with my mom seemed promising. She asked if I was serious about my relationship, and I said I was.
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It's not just serious, it's marriage serious. Then she added my dad to the call, and things took a negative turn. What followed was a 45-minute monologue about how my decision wouldn't work out, how he'd be there to say, I told you so, and how I'd regret everything. The conversation was peppered with emotional blackmail, guilt trips, and passive-aggressive insults.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
The one that hurt the most was when he accused me of thinking negatively about everyone but myself.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That stung because they've never understood the mental toll I've endured trying to be the perfect daughter for them. My dad declared that he wanted no part in my life with my partner, not to meet him, his family, or even visit any home we might share.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
My mom, meanwhile, was mostly silent, though I could hear her getting teary in the background, trying hard to redirect the conversation to something constructive.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That's long and the short of it, I think. If this were Bridgerton, she would be the character who late in the story takes the daughter aside and is like, I was in love once. I wasn't able to pursue my dream and I won't let the same happen to you. Go be happy, be happy. What infuriated me most was how dismissive my dad was of my concerns about this broader culture and some aspects of our family.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
At one point, he used a horrific example of a case of abuse in our family to justify his cultural assumptions, saying, at least that wasn't you. I called him out on excusing harmful behavior and projecting it onto people he didn't know, but he doubled down. The conversation ended with him laughing off my frustration, claiming we were having a friendly chat and accusing me of being too sensitive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That's super interesting. I didn't even realize that that theme had popped up until now. But like you said in the previous segment, what is the barometer for too sensitive, really?
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Right. And there isn't room in the relationship for like real empathy or healthy conflict. So they just put it on you. Exactly. Yeah. So she goes on. I was livid and hung up knowing nothing productive would come from continuing. Since then, I've seen my parents a few times for birthdays and other visits.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
They've chosen to pretend nothing happened, accepting the move as job related, but ignoring the rest. It's an uneasy truce. I'll continue leaving the door open for communication, but I've accepted that they may never fully understand or respect my choices. I've decided to frame our relationship strictly as parent and child, letting them play their roles while keeping my boundaries firm.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I still want them in my life, but on terms that acknowledge the full scope of who I am. That's all I can hope for right now. As I sit here, reflecting on everything, I feel a mix of sadness and relief. It's a difficult road, but I'm ready to walk it. I'll keep you updated as I settle into this new chapter. Signed, took it slow, and decided to reveal my secret bow. And yes, it did invite more woe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But the headline is, I'm finally getting to go.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You know, I want to pause and appreciate that what our friend in this story is up against is massive. It's not just I'm marrying somebody my parents don't really like or somebody that they would never approve of because he's from a totally different culture. I mean, that alone is, you know, a huge obstacle.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But she is standing up to a whole culture and a whole way of doing things in their family that is very entrenched and very complicated. And I can't even imagine how much courage it takes to turn to her parents who have done some really hurtful things and who still clearly matter to her. Like she's not writing them off. She still wants a relationship with them as flawed as they are.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
and say, I'm really sorry that you're not going to be happy with me, but this is the person I love.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I have very good reasons for loving this person. I want to build my own life and I'm doing this. Like that takes a degree of courage that honestly, I don't know if I've ever had to conjure in my life. I don't know if I could have done it, at least not with half the grace she did. And yeah, I share you view Jordan. I'm just like applauding her over here. It's amazing.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah. I think she's in the process of doing all of that for sure. I mean, it's interesting that she said, I've accepted that they may never fully understand or respect my choices. That's a really big thing to get over. It's a hard thing to come to terms with. It reminds me of a big theme on the show, a big theme this year especially, this grief concept we keep talking about.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And not just grief for people when they leave or when they die, but grief for versions of relationships that we wish we had, we wish we could have had. And one of the hardest forms of grief I can think of is you know, hoping that your parents would meet you in a certain way or accept you for who you are and finding out that they just won't be able to do that. It's very painful.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And she has been in a parallel process. One is, you know, having the courage to embrace this guy and build this life. And the other is grieving a painful shift in her relationship with her parents. It's a big deal.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It's interesting because in a way it makes it so much more painful. And in another way, it kind of makes it simpler for her. Yep. You know, if a parent is this committed to their views, if they're this unwilling to meet you or see things your way or just empathize, like there's no conversation to be had. And so it kind of simplifies matters and lets her off the hook. She did her part.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
They don't want to meet her. Okay. Time for me to go my own way. Exactly. I'm not saying it's not painful, but in a way it is simpler.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That's awesome.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You know that time when you and I were going back and forth to Korea and we would have to fly through China? Every time we went through China, I would go to this tailor and I would get these amazing tailored shirts and suits and stuff. And then when we stopped going and I grew or changed or started working out, I didn't have all these nice tailored shirts anymore.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, so this is a really good hack. I might do this myself.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Sorry, give me one second. I'm just finishing this order on this Kim Jong-un vanity plate. Yes. Yeah.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
No, it's actually like a whole, it comes with a license plate rack around it and says, would rather be genocide. Just give me one second. Terrible. I wonder if Rocket Man is taken.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Four and a half years.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Oh, dude, I feel the same way. Thank you. That's very sweet. I appreciate it. I feel the exact same way. I'll probably say something in a second, but thank you for sharing that. Fair enough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I mean, we can. Yeah. Do you have a few? There are a few Feedback Friday bangers that just keep rattling around in my head on a weekly basis.
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1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yep. That's a good one. Episode 1093, by the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And we'll just see. But also bold and playful. And then that story kept turning. I love that letter. Yeah. Just kept unfolding. Yeah. We'll see what happens.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Lil Rocket Man. Lil Rocket Man. L-I-L-R-K-T-M-N.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Small correction. It was one undocumented immigrant and he murdered somebody. Wasn't it two boys? It was brothers, but they only brought one of them over because the other was really in trouble and they didn't want to bring him. Got it. But yeah, he murdered somebody in Mexico, but he murdered his abuser. So very complicated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That was episode 1072. If you haven't heard it, it's worth going back and listening to it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Oh my God, dude. I forgot about that one. Yeah. So I just looked it up. Episode 995. I might have to go back and listen to that one again. I forgot about that one. Yeah, that one was bonkers. Yeah. He was just like, what did they have threesomes together?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And he was like, it was the most, it was like the most fun three people could have together, but they were playing like Russian roulette with the baby Macon basically. And he was like, whoever gets pregnant gets to be the mom. And then, Oh, and then they split up. Right. Yeah. And then now someone's coming after him or something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Hello, Jordan and Gabe. About three months ago, my husband went to a networking event that was held on a Friday night at a hotel here in our city. He works in the construction slash drilling industry, so networking events are far and few between.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But then he signed a paperwork in advance saying that he wasn't responsible for any.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That was legendary Feedback Friday stuff. Yeah. That was episode 961. That was so tragic, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Actually, I have a little update about that one. So we heard from our listener who wrote in about this story. It was his friend who had done this. If you guys don't remember, his friend had a baby and then she went through postpartum psychosis, which turns out affects way more people than I thought. Like there are so many people experiencing psychosis after childbirth. It's wild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And then she was put in a hospital for a time and then they brought the baby back in, right? Because they wanted to encourage mother and baby to bond, but it wasn't, I guess she wasn't ready or it wasn't clear that she was stable. And then she ran out of the hospital with the baby into the woods and killed the baby. So tragic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So the update I got recently was that the woman who went through this, she's now in a secure hospital receiving treatment rather than prison, which is good for her, I think this person said. One of her friends has exchanged letters with her, letting her know that all of the friend group is thinking about her, but they don't have a ton of contact with her. Ugh, such a brutal story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That is absolutely wild. I'll be thinking about that one for a while. I have a feeling I know what number one is. Can I guess? Yeah, go for it. The rubber mallet story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So I just looked it up. That was actually late 2023. I don't care. So technically did not happen in 2024, but I will allow it because we have never, we have yet to process this event. And yeah, we have to talk about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
When I asked what type of function is held on a Friday night at 6pm in a hotel penthouse, he said he agreed that it was unusual, but perhaps it was the only time everyone could make it, so I shrugged it off. But it still didn't sit right with me. As the night rolled on, I texted my husband to ask how it was going, and he sent some pictures of food and said it was fine, lots of men.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
They were like hammered. I think they were drinking and then went driving home or something. They got into a fight in the car. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I will never, ever forget that episode because. when I read the letter, I was like, my God, this is horrible. This is crazy. Like I was so disturbed by it. And then we get to reading it and it's like, it was so beyond the pale. It was so heightened and crazy and absurd. Like we, you couldn't not laugh or like we could not laugh just to get through it. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
One of my favorite things that came out of that episode was we were like, why does she have a rubber mallet in the car? And then everybody, like three to five people chimed in with various reasons that people carry rubber mallets around. And one of them was to pound signs into the ground. And I don't know how much detail to go into because I kind of want to
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
maybe try to protect this woman's privacy to some degree, but it turned out that she had like a very normal job that requires you to pound signs into the ground and that she was doing it all the time. And that's why she had it in her car. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But it was so funny to imagine this person who is dealing with clients and being very normal and keeping up appearances, like having this very normal job that she apparently like probably went to the next day. And then at night she's kneecapping her boyfriend and running off in the scene. It's so wild.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Warm our hands on all the dumpster fires from days of yore.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
That was pretty good. You did it, I think. Really?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I offered to pick him up if he ended up drinking, and he said not to worry, that there would be free Uber rides for everyone there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, seriously. I got to follow handsome Buddha number one over here. Jeez.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It's a lot of men and a lot of jalapeno poppers. That's right. Now I'm going on Do Not Disturb, and I'll be back in a few hours.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Well, you know, one of the things I love, love about doing the show is that we get to hear from people from so many different walks of life, from so many different countries, so many different circumstances, people who are dealing with so many different challenges and questions. And for the 10 or 15 minutes that we spend with each person, I feel like we get to be in their lives with them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
We almost, I feel sometimes like we get to live their lives with them for a moment. And I cannot tell you what a privilege it is for me to get to do that. I love it. I'm so grateful for it because I really do feel like this show makes me bigger. It makes me more curious. It gives me an experience of life that is just so much greater than my own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And that's basically what I love about storytelling, you know, whether it's here on the show or my writing or Just hanging out with friends and talking. So, obviously, Jordan and I have not been through everything you guys write in about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You know, we haven't smuggled an immigrant into the country, or we haven't gone through postpartum psychosis, or we haven't gotten a lesbian couple pregnant while married, you know? Yeah, speak for yourself, Gabe. Actually, my bad. Jordan has done at least two of the five things on the list of the top five list today, so...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And judging by the look on his face right now, he's about two one-star reviews away from taking a rubber mallet to my kneecaps. That's right. I'm on Amazon searching for rubber mallets. But anyway, we haven't been through these things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But when you guys ask us to weigh in, we get to put ourselves in your shoes and imagine what we would do, what ideally the best version of us would do, and how we would do it if we were in the same position. And that is a really powerful exercise.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But I got to say, the one theme we deal with a lot on the show that I find kind of the most challenging, we already talked about it once today, it kind of makes me a little sweaty sometimes because it's just so big, is the theme of grief. I have been really lucky in my life. I haven't experienced any super traumatic deaths. Well, I guess my aunt died when I was young. I was really young.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
My husband and I are very close, and there's little we don't share with each other, so knowing he was out drinking without me didn't bother me much. Until it was 11pm and there was no message from him. Midnight rolls around and now I'm starting to have questions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So I guess there's one, but that was a long time ago. It was kind of a unique situation. But you know, I was lucky enough to say goodbye to my grandparents when they were super old. And yeah, I've had to put down, you know, childhood cats or lost them when they got old, but I haven't lost a parent when I was 25 or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I haven't had a friend die tragically or lost a child or a sibling or anything like that. And so when we take those letters, all I can do sometimes is just like, imagine what it must be like. And sometimes to be perfectly honest, I feel a little out of my depth because it's like, what do you know about this kind of loss? You know, like, what do you know about this kind of pain?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And I'm sorry if this sounds corny, but it is such a privilege for me to be in some of this stuff with you guys. And it's a gap in my experience that I am very aware of. And I feel like I get to learn before I have to go through some of this stuff with you. But then, like clockwork, 2024 just delivered some very powerful lessons for me in grief.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And the big one, of course, was back in March, my cat Drake went missing. And a bunch of you have reached out recently asking for an update and The reason I haven't mentioned it is that there isn't an update. He disappeared one day out of the blue. And sadly, we never found him. And it's basically been devastating. And it's the I know it's like small potatoes compared to how painful life can get.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It's like I'm very lucky that this is the worst thing that happened to me this year. But it's kind of the first really super bizarre, awful thing that I've been through in a while. And it's been a fascinating process coming to terms with that. We talk on the show. about ambiguous loss a lot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
It's kind of like Jordan and my new favorite topic, just this weird feeling of not having the closure you need to be able to put something to bed. And losing Drake was a huge lesson for me in how to live with that kind of grief. And I want to say that I've made peace with losing him, and I guess I have to some degree, but it still really hurts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Mostly I've just kind of gotten used to it and there's nothing left to do. We did everything, everything for a long time that we could. But if I sit with it, like when he floats across my mind, if I sit with my thoughts about him, yeah, I'll start weeping. And that's just where I am. So all I can say about Drake, if you'll indulge me for a moment, is just that I love this cat so much. And he...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So I texted again and that's when he said, well, all the waitresses here have now taken off their tops and some have taken off their bottoms too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
yeah, just, you know, changed my life in so many ways, you know, and, uh, sorry, I did not expect to be crying. Um, but we had 11 amazing years together and he continues to be just like one of my greatest teachers because he's not even here anymore. And he's teaching me how to accept and how to and how to trust that wherever he is, whatever he's doing, that's his journey.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And that's just where he needs to be. And I will never, ever probably understand the reasons for that. And the fact that I can't understand it, I now see is not an obstacle to processing this experience. It is this experience. And it's a very weird thing to live through. And I can't even imagine what it would be like to live through with a human being
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And then there were other griefs, smaller griefs, you know, some were refreshing, some were tough, but this was really the big one. And to your point, Jordan, there were so many joys this year too. I got to travel to these beautiful places, Brazil, Peru, Japan. I got hired to work on my first movie for a studio. I mean, there's just like so much to be grateful for.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But what I'm trying to say is I do not think I would have been able to navigate any of this to make sense of the lows and to truly enjoy the highs of this year.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
if it were not for this show and I think I said this last year I'll say it again I know it seems like Jordan and I have all the answers but I am really learning right alongside you guys all of your letters all of your stories what you guys do with the advice we share the updates you send they teach me and they move me so much and I really did feel more equipped this year more alive because of this show because of you so I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart to you Jordan
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
You're my homie. You're my collaborator. You're my number one handsome boy. You invited me into the show four and a half years ago and just opened up my world and my career in the most extraordinary way. I love you, man. And I'm so damn grateful for you. And I want to say thank you to everybody who listens every week. You guys are so special. You guys are so thoughtful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Corresponding with you in the inbox and talking on Instagram and in the subreddit and reading your comments, which are just like so insightful and funny and touching is, it is just such a joy for me. This show family is one of a kind. You guys are my buds. You're my guides. I feel very, very lucky to know you and to grow alongside you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for spending part of your lives with us week after week. I love you. I hope you have a beautiful 2025. XOXO, number two handsome boy. Goodbye.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Well, actually I'm confused. Is this why you were concerned about there being a lot of men or did you think there being a lot of men meant something else?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Well, now you know why.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
He continued, things just got really awkward. And they just opened the doors to this back room, and a lot of men are getting up and going back there with some of the waitresses. I didn't realize, but the coasters on all the tables did indicate the company catering the event was some topless service."
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
No sex in the penthouse room?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
This guy might've been thirsty, but this is a very different well. So she goes on, all my bad feelings were now confirmed and I was very upset. I asked him if he was coming home and he said, yes, soon. 45 minutes later, I finally saw his location start to move as he made his way back home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Why are you filling her head?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I don't know why they made us put on condoms when we checked in. I thought it was just like a networking hygiene thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
We're obviously just having a laugh. I know. Why are we doing that? Yeah, you really have nothing to worry about. There were no jumbo shrimp at this party. There's no jumbo shrimp that we're exaggerating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
My goodness. When he got home, he said that he couldn't leave because it, quote, would have been rude, unquote. That he had no idea it was this type of event. This was all new to him, too. That as soon as the women took off their clothes, he started making moves to head out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
that, quote, this is just how men do things sometimes, and that if someone wants to go to the strip club, that's just what you have to do in business, unquote. He also said, if you're that one guy that says you will not go, you will not make that work connection, and you could lose out on contracts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Dude, you are like filling her head with the worst possible scenario here. You don't know that he did. Blame it on the drugs. Yeah. This is the oxy talking right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Well, it's interesting. When I was in consulting, we had to do ethics training every year. And I remember they explicitly told us that we could not go to a strip club. and expense it to the client or really go at all. Like you can do this stuff as part of, you know, socializing around work whatsoever because, you know, it generally excludes women and it just, it's like weird and inappropriate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
But the way they said it to us in training, you knew partners had done it a bunch in the past and they had to say something about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
No, no. My memory is they were like not definitely do not expense it to the client, but also don't do this with the team. This is not like a team bonding, legitimate team bonding experience. Got it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
This is a lawyer you worked with?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I really do understand why companies are saying none of this, please. But this story, this story, the one we're talking about here is interesting because this guy wasn't forced to go as part of a company thing. He chose to go by himself outside of work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So she goes on. I said that I was not OK with what went down tonight, that my expectation would be that he'd walk away immediately, even if it's rude, that all these men are married. And what does that say about them? Is this the type of people you'd want to go into business with?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
He said that he understands how I feel, but that that's just the way it is for a man, that he can't promise that these types of things won't happen again, but that he'll always tell me. if it happens. I said that was not okay with me, but it was a huge violation of trust I thought we had, and he would literally leave me if the tables were turned.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Or would he be like, go make those contacts, Monica. Go live that vida loca. Yeah, that's right. Maybe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
So she goes on, I can't help but think that he knew the event was freaky from the start, that the women were topless from the beginning, and that he's only telling me a version of the story that might sit better with me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
I wish there were some way she could verify, but it sounds like she has to, she has to take it. Well, she doesn't have to take his word for it, but that's all she has to go on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1097: Husband's Networking Involves Topless Twerking | Feedback Friday
We proceeded to have a three day long silent argument, which we never do. I felt like I was learning something very uncomfortable about my husband's outlook, and I was in total disbelief about the toxic narrative he was feeding into.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
By grade school, I was getting calls from the school every week. Behavior problems at home and school continued throughout his childhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
By kindergarten, we had him in therapy. We also went to therapy separately to learn how to deal with him. He was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD, oppositional defiant disorder. They tried every type of medication available. Nothing helped. We sent him to different psychologists and psychiatrists. We tried individual, family, and group therapy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Maybe dress code when it actually goes to trial. Maybe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
We also paid for private tutors and educational therapists. My son failed every school year because he would not do the work despite having a very high IQ. They kept passing him on anyway. I think they didn't want to deal with him for another year. By 10th grade, I finally gave up on therapy and medications. We had been spending $10,000 or more yearly, which seemed to make no difference.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
The biggest problem was the constant lying. He lied about everything. He lied to cover up misdeeds, but he also lied for no apparent reason. Those were the lies that baffled me the most. The therapist said that lying for no reason was the biggest problem. And I understood why later.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
My son barely graduated high school, but we were thrilled. He joined the military and we breathed a sigh of relief. He had a job, supported himself, and appeared to be doing well. He met a woman in the military, and she got pregnant. I was worried, but I just tried to be supportive. They got married after my grandson was born. My son eventually went AWOL from the military and was kicked out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
After that, he was often unemployed, spending many months at home playing video games all day in his boxers while his wife worked. But my grandson was the most wonderful little boy, and I adored him. He was the light of my life. I couldn't get enough of him. It was so fun being a grandma. I didn't have to be serious. I could play with him and have a fun time. He was so sweet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
That's right. Show up in your Lulus. A lot of people hate jury duty. I actually don't hate jury duty. I kind of like it. I know I sound like a Boy Scout right now, but I do consider it an important duty. And I feel lucky to live in a country with a somewhat functioning judiciary. Can I really complain that I have to do this for a few days? Not really.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I can still picture his laughing face. So adorable. Meanwhile, my husband was slowly spiraling into mental illness. He refused to get help. After years of suffering, he took his own life. God, I'm stunned and I'm so sorry. This is awful. Man, the things you've been through. Too much for one person. Man, this is insane. So she goes on. My daughter was a teen and my grandson was two when he died.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
There is no way to overstate how traumatic and terrible my husband's death was. Everyone in his life was devastated. Everyone felt guilty and responsible. It's still hard for me to understand how someone who loved his family so much could do something that hurt them all so profoundly. My daughter and I took the brunt of his illness and death.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
We were both devastated, grieving, and in therapy for years afterward. Almost a year after my husband's death, my teenage daughter started getting weird texts from my son's wife offering to have my daughter move in with them. My daughter never liked her and didn't trust her brother, so she ignored the texts. A week after that, I got a call from my son.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
First, he accused me of dragging him out of bed in the middle of the night to punish him. I was baffled, having no idea what he was talking about. Before I could respond, he quickly escalated, yelling that I had raped him. I got angry, yelling, that never happened. He then hung up on me. It turned out that the call was recorded and the police were listening in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
My son had filed a police report accusing me of various crimes, including physically abusing him as a child, molesting him as a child, and raping him as an adult. He further accused me of killing my husband, molesting my daughter, and kidnapping him as a baby from his deadbeat bio-dad. All told, he falsely accused me of at least five violent felonies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
He also included a lot of other people in his assortment of lies, claiming several neighbors and his grade school principal molested him as a child. But I was his primary target.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I was under investigation for seven excruciating months. I had to hire criminal defense lawyers for my daughter and myself. Since my son implicated her in his stories, claiming she was both a victim and a witness, she was interrogated for three hours by the police.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I paid for the lawyer to be there with her, but it was still traumatic, not to mention the fact that she would be stuck living with her brother if I were sent to jail. the person who put both of us through this hell. Oh my gosh. My lawyer told me not to talk to the police, but I did anyway. No. It wasn't a smart move, but not knowing what was happening was killing me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
The police don't tell you what they're investigating you for.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
My family and friends were all interviewed. It was, to put it mildly, a shitshow. Eventually, I figured out most of the accusations and pieced everything together. I learned that my son found his bio dad and that guy told him that I had kidnapped my son as a baby and that he had been searching for my son all these years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
It was the one lie I could definitively disprove since the public records show he was served for child support. If he wanted to see a son, he had to show up in court and pay child support. He did neither. After seven months, I finally got a letter from the DA saying he would not file charges against me, and the whole thing was dropped. It was a huge relief.
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This was the absolute worst period of my life, and I was in a state of constant extreme anxiety.
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Immediately after, I went into a state of deep rage. I seriously considered suing my son, his wife, and my ex for slander. In the end, I decided not to do it because I knew they didn't have enough assets to make it worthwhile. I would only get some empty satisfaction after spending years fighting in court.
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Also, I knew my son would love it if I sued him. He's the type that thrives on chaos, he would love the distraction, and it would give him the double enjoyment of playing the victim and making my life all about him for years longer. But I wanted to hurt them like they hurt me. Most of my other ideas involved things that would make me a criminal, so I reluctantly let it go.
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Going to jail wasn't an option, so they got away with everything.
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Yes.
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Oh man, these are some tough thoughts and feelings to live with. So she goes on, Once I worked through the anger, I spent a lot of time dealing with feelings of betrayal and devastation. I honestly never saw any of this coming. My husband's suicide or my son trying to ruin my life. My biggest question was, why? Why did he make up all the lies about me? In time, I realized the answer was simple.
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Greed. When my husband died, I inherited most of the estate. The kids got a small inheritance, but I got most of it, which was fair since I paid for half of everything we owned. But if I went to jail, my daughter would need a guardian. That guardian would be my son, which meant he could access all my money for my daughter's care. And I'm pretty sure his wife helped him cook up the whole scheme.
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Or at least something sociopathic about it. Yes, she did. I thought it was interesting when she said that he had a high IQ, but he couldn't get through school. So he's deploying his intelligence in all kinds of strange ways. After the whole mess, I heard my son had changed his name to his deadbeat dad's last name.
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The final insult to the memory of the father who cared for him all his childhood, who adopted him, loved him, and helped him pay for his endless therapy bills. Oh, no. Yeah. that he doesn't remember anything about me. My grandson is now nearing adulthood. We no longer share a last name, so he can't find me, if he's even thought about it.
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Quite. I agree. Yeah. I've actually served on two juries before. One was civil, one was criminal. And then they called me up after years. Anyway, it ended up being pretty funny. I feel like jury duty is always kind of funny. It's just being around that many people from all walks of life. I find the people watching aspect so entertaining.
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I'm positive my son and his wife have concocted some bizarre story about me. I've thought about reaching out to him or even registering with one of the DNA services once he's an adult so he might find me. But I'm worried about what he might be like after being raised by my son and daughter-in-law.
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Also, severe mental illness runs through my daughter-in-law's family, with some of them being institutionalized, all of them male.
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Oh my gosh. It sounds unfair to assume that my grandson might be as sick as his parents, but... I worry. Oh, it's not unfair. I get it. I would worry too. I would love to see my grandson and learn about his life, but I'm afraid that he had a traumatic childhood that will only devastate me since I couldn't help him.
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I'm also worried that I'll end up like his parents or worse and he'll target me in some way. Frankly, I'm at peace with the situation as it is after years of therapy. but healing from something like this doesn't mean I could survive it a second time. Should I take steps to make myself available to my grandson and try to find him once he's an adult?
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Or should I leave him in the past and hope and pray for him from afar, sign to keep my distance after this dreadful business, or be persistent in asserting my existence?
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It's like, I don't know, I could do that all day, but I have to tell you some funny stuff that happened. So I get to the courthouse a little early and And I go to the Starbucks across the street to get a cup of tea. And at a table by the counter where you order, there's a woman doing some work and she has her paper spread out. And she's pretty cute and seems interesting.
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And if he can't do that, then it's on everyone else in his life to protect themselves from him and his wife and just, I think, stay far away.
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And I almost went up to her and started talking to her. But then she got a phone call right before I was about to cross the room and I had to be at jury duty across the street. So I just grabbed my green tea and I left. So I get to the jury pool room and I was actually prepping the show for this week while we wait. And I'm looking at my laptop, I'm looking up and I'm studying.
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That's fascinating.
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All the people are slowly filing in. Just like a really interesting group of people. I don't know if anyone cares who doesn't live in Los Angeles, but when you get called to jury duty in LA, it is so annoying because you have to drive. Well, I have to drive all the way across downtown. It's like an hour commute each way, or it can be. I got called to the Santa Monica courthouse.
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I'm with you. Unfortunately, I think she has to leave her grandson in the past. It is so incredibly sad, and it means living with this wound and accepting that wound over and over again. Knowing he's out there, that he could probably use your love and your friendship, but that his parents have made it impossible to be close with him is just awful.
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But yeah, there might be a day in the future where a relationship becomes possible. Life is insane, obviously. Look at the story. It might surprise her again in a whole other way. And maybe one day he'll be safe and stable and a new relationship becomes possible. I don't want to get your hopes up, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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even if that happens i think jordan is absolutely right you're gonna have to proceed very carefully so your job it seems to me is to stay far away from these people and to hope and pray for him from afar which by the way is a form of relationship with your grandson it's not the one that you wish you could have it's not the one you deserve
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But I do believe that connection matters in some mysterious way. I really hope you can feel that. I hope that it helps this guy survive this childhood and grow up into a relatively healthy, relatively high-functioning adult. And then your job, I think, is to take care of yourself and continue to be a good mother to your daughter. She's in the background of this story.
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I only had to go like 15 minutes, which was amazing. That was another reason I wasn't that upset about it. Also because I have a job that I can do from anywhere. I don't have children. I know it's annoying, more annoying for other people anyway. I'm just enjoying looking around at all these people.
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She has been deeply affected by this nightmare too, I'm sure. She deserves most of your love and attention. I'm sure you would agree with that. Like Jordan said at the top, you sound like somebody who's very good at processing her emotions and making peace with these unspeakable situations.
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I think those skills are essential here too, because staying away from your grandson and from your son and his wife means coping with a lot of anger, a lot of sadness, a lot of regret, so much grief. But your ability to bear those feelings, that is part of how you can protect yourself.
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There's this funny moment where one woman who was called got mad that there were no stairs, that we had to take the elevators up and down. And she was like complaining to the guy. He's like, dude, I didn't design the building. She's like, no, I was just asking. I was just wondering. It's just stuff like that. It's like little moments. So I go to the jury pool room.
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You know, you have to hang out for a bit before they call you. I'm prepping the show a little bit while we wait. I am already loving the people watching. 10 out of 10 on the people watching. Just a really great cross section of humanity. They send us to a courtroom. We settle into our seats. The judge explains the case at a very high level.
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Dear Jordan and Gabe, my 65-year-old neighbor, Dan, is a wonderful man who has helped my family and me many times, even saving our house from flooding during one of the Florida hurricanes. He lives next door in a gated community that isn't opulent, but is very nice and full of decent professional neighbors. Last year, Dan lost his job after 30 years as an engineer with a huge company.
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I'm a recruiter in a different industry and have done what I can to help him with his resume and job search. That is really cool of you, man. That's nice. Around the time he was laid off, he also split with his girlfriend and I assume has been in a very lonely time in his life. I started noticing signs that he's a problem drinker, although he's always been an excellent neighbor.
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I've gleaned that he's been living entirely off of social security. Then, yesterday, I received a text from Dan with an urgent need to borrow $100. It was odd because we're not really that close, and my wife and I were flummoxed that he would ask me instead of his family. I replied like I always do in this situation, that I'm happy to help as a one-time thing.
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The money is not a big deal, but I avoid becoming the go-to for anyone who's in dire financial straits. I obliged, imagining that it was for food. The poor guy has become skin and bones in the last few months, and looks like he's about to die from stress.
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Then, today, I got another very distressed text from him asking to borrow another hundred dollars, and that there's a desperate situation that he'll explain later. My spidey senses went off, and I had a feeling something was very wrong. I went over there and what he explained was more or less this. I have a big problem with someone I love dearly.
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I've known her for like 20 years and I can't wait for you to meet her in a couple of weeks. She's an architect who is traveling in Jakarta on work and had a horrible car accident two months ago. Her purse was stolen at the crash scene and she's been in a Jakarta hospital ever since. She can't access her funds and can't leave the hospital without an important surgery.
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And it's basically an unlawful detainer case between a landlord and a tenant. So an eviction, basically. They brought in, I want to say, 50 jurors, knowing, I think, that a bunch would be dismissed because people have strong opinions about this stuff. And the defendant, the tenant, is representing himself. Just looks like very average white guy, slicked back hair, thick rimmed glasses.
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We just need another $100 to pay for the surgery, and then she'll be on her way to live with me permanently here in the U.S.
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Oh yeah, the mob wife work nemesis lady who was being scammed by her online British boyfriend.
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You know what's interesting? Dolores' guy was also supposedly an architect.
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Right. Certainly at this scale. But then if he's lying to people about how long he's known her, how does he not realize that this is a scam?
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Okay, that makes sense. But there's another possibility, which is that he hasn't known this person for 20 years. He just knows that people in his life are going to find this whole story sus, and he's coming up with a backstory himself, which is even scarier.
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Or the scammer has told him to say that. Yes, totally possible. Oh, this poor guy. So the letter goes on. My heart broke for him in that moment. He says this has been the most stressful time in his life. I believe him. He looks like he's been killed by stress 100 times. I imagine this person has taken everything from him, including his retirement.
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If he's borrowing $100 from a neighbor that he doesn't know, his retirement is gone. He's in trouble. But we can't decide if we should intervene in some way. I'm worried that if we don't do something, his life is going to become so wrecked that when he finally realizes that he won't have a happily ever after, he might hurt or kill himself. Should I try to intervene?
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If so, how do I convince him that this is a scam when he has his entire life invested in this being real? Signed, hoping I'm not too late to protect the fate of my friend behind those gates. Oh, man.
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He's wearing the worst tie I've ever seen in my life. So he's colorblind or something. He just kind of looks vaguely confused and you could already feel the jurors wheels turning. What does this mean? What does that say about him? Do we feel bad for this guy or should we be kind of impressed that he's representing himself? Is this going to be a total shit show? Unclear.
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And he's a wonderful person, right? I think this guy deserves as much protection and help as you can offer.
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The plaintiff and the landlord, I believe a Latino woman who owns the building where this guy is living. She has an attorney and their backs are facing the jury pool so we can't see them. But the attorney turns around and it's the woman I almost hit on.
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That point is so important because like our friend said in the letter, I think Dan is probably gonna be riddled with shame if he realizes what has happened because that's what keeps people stuck in these scams. They don't want to admit,
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that it's happened because then they would have to confront the reality that they have potentially given away their entire retirement to somebody who targeted them. It's embarrassing. It is. It's very painful. So you have to create an environment where that shame and that pain are as minimal as possible.
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Oh, that's a really good idea, because people are posting about these scams more and more, so... It's a great way to do research. There are also some good resources for helping elderly people who are caught up in romance scams. One of the best actually is Adult Protective Services. We talk about them on the show a lot.
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They can actually investigate cases where an elderly person is being targeted in a romance scam. They can also do things like coordinate with law enforcement. They can offer counseling, legal intervention, financial safeguards. They can connect the victim with community resources.
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They can even help with guardianship or conservatorship if the person can't protect themselves because, you know, they're going through cognitive decline or some other vulnerability. Although Dan's family should know that petitioning for guardianship is generally the absolute last thing APS pushes for, especially if the victim has all of their faculties in every other way, which maybe Dan does.
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So whether you end up being involved in this intervention or not, I would strongly consider filing a report about Dan with APS. And I would do it soon because it might take them a little time to follow up. But I would also talk to his family about this and coordinate with them so you guys are on the same page.
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That would, it was like 375, but that would have been awkward. And also, yeah, what would have happened? Would they have to automatically dismiss you because you have a previous relationship?
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We're also going to include several other great websites and organizations with a ton of resources about this in the show notes, including the ARP Fraud Network. Highly recommend checking them out. And I would definitely share them with Dan's Inner Circle because these links could be great prep for you guys for this intervention.
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One other idea that's occurring to me is if the scammer is in fact impersonating somebody real in his life, could they find that person? Maybe she has like another social account or a phone number. You can find this stuff fairly easily online. Contact her, tell her what's going on. She reaches out to Dan directly and says, hey, I haven't been communicating with you.
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But you know what's funny? Everyone wants to get out of jury duty. And so people are always like, do I do the Larry David thing and just say, I'm a flagrant racist, your honor, and then get dismissed? Or do I tell them that I have previous experience with this? No, the answer is just hit on council on both sides and then you're eliminated. It was so funny.
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All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I work on a small team within a hospital. We provide an advice service, not direct patient care, which is essential in reducing strain on the healthcare system. I knew from college that this is what I wanted to do. I love my job. The interactive aspect, outreach, policy development, and process improvements.
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The problem is, both our small team and the organization as a whole are broken. I was the first new hire in 20 years, and problems are deeply ingrained in our service. We operate 14 hours a day, 365 days a year, with just less than 10 staff, over 50% of whom are part-time, including our manager, who works only three days a week.
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Staffing is so tight that breaks are frequently impossible, and the higher-ups don't grasp the full scope of our work. I've spearheaded change since starting here, implemented incident reporting and a risk register, improved external collaborations, and organized many outreach programs to increase awareness of our service. Yet progress is still slow.
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We request additional staff annually, and these requests are denied without explanation. Our manager is too stretched to advocate for change, and we have no backup plan for variables like a staff member leaving, manager absence due to illness, or the wave of retirement that will be coming in a few years. I've fought for improvements for four years, but it's exhausting.
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It felt like an episode of Grey's Anatomy or something like, what is this twist? Anyway, the judge gives us the instructions, and one of them is, if you run into the defendant or the plaintiff or a counselor, please do not talk to them. Oh, jeez. And if you do talk to them, they're not going to respond. He goes way out of his way. He was so nice.
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Reporting this to the governing bodies isn't truly anonymous in such a small workforce, so I fear backlash. Recently, a new job opportunity has come up. It would mean an initial pay cut, but it's a larger organization with hybrid work which would improve my quality of life. But this is a service I've always been passionate about, and I understand the benefits.
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So part of me definitely wants to stay and fight. But it's becoming exhausting. Also, my employer paid $15,000 for a course I just completed. I hesitate to leave, although I never signed an agreement to stay or even agreed verbally. At what point do I stop fighting and move on? Do I owe them more time or is it time to put myself first?
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Is there anything else I could do to advocate for change or make us be noticed by higher ups? Signed, looking for relief from the powers that be before I flee despite this pricey course fee.
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He was like, it's not because they don't want to talk to you. I'm sure they would love to talk to you. It's because they're not allowed to talk to you. And in my head, I'm like, you think, Your Honor? You think you want to talk to me? Yes. If you were allowed to, hypothetically, think I could get a date with the plaintiff?
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First of all, I resent the implication that I was merely cosplaying. I was a real stuffed suit. Based on those very few years in corporate life, I am with you completely. It's hard to know exactly why their organization is not giving them the resources that they need. It could be a few different things.
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But the thing that stands out the most to me in this letter is this thing he said about the higher-ups, how they don't appreciate the full scope of the work that they do in this department. So that tells me that the people in charge have not been made to understand why this team matters. why it deserves resources, what's going to happen if they don't receive that help. So there's a gap here.
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And the best way to fill that gap is to tell the story of their department to the bosses. And to your point, that's a huge part of leadership, just storytelling, just basic influence. So I'm also excited to think about what would happen if he took the initiative here. And even if he failed completely, I bet that he would grow a ton. It's a great skill to have.
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And then, of course, I'm sitting there because I'm always working on stories. I'm imagining what's going to happen if we get in the elevator together later. And I'm like, this would be a great opening to a movie or a show. Like two people hit it off and then they end up in a trial together and neither of them says anything. It's just funny. So they begin voir dire, jury selection.
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Yeah, no regrets at that point. That does not need to be adversarial. Look, it is adversarial if the executives are like, yeah, we're not going to help you stop bothering us. You're on your own. But I would think of this as a conversation. It's an opportunity really to say, hey guys, maybe we haven't always been the best at explaining what we do, but we really believe in the mission here.
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This is crucial to the system and to our patients. And we want you to know why it matters and what we need. And we're grateful for the chance to do that today and talk to them one day. And then maybe you can share some of your personal experience working on this team as somebody who's actually in the trenches. And I bet that would make
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quite an impact on these higher ups and nothing about that needs to be aggro or personally risky to you. So that's my take. And like Jordan said, if it's a no after that, then it's probably always going to be a no. And then yeah, probably time to jump ship and don't even look back.
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Isn't that weird to think about? Yeah, it was like gray pants and blue shirt every day, five days a week. That would get tiresome.
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And this woman, the lawyer, is...
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one of the best lawyers i've ever seen in action she's super confident but also friendly and very dynamic she's really good with the jury they haven't even started trying the case yet and she is already winning everyone over it was actually inspiring to watch and basically i'm trying not to stare at this woman for the rest of one year because i don't want to be inappropriate or like throw her off her game but we do lock eyes a couple of times and i'm like bruh if i get dismissed i'm
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My recommendation of the week is this cashew butter by a company called Morena Products. This is hands down the best cashew butter I have ever tried in my entire life. And it's not just your regular cashew butter in a jar or whatever. Ship it. It has shredded coconut and dates and cinnamon. And they have all these different versions of the product. It's amazing. It's gluten free, raw and vegan.
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I actually bought a jar as a present for my mom when I was traveling and I brought it home and she tried. She was like, bro, this is the greatest cashew butter I've ever tried in my life. It's by this company called Morena Products. We're going to link to their website and their Instagram in the show notes.
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Little bit pricier maybe than what you would find at the average thing in the grocery store, but so worth it and also an amazing gift.
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1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Because it's bougie and hippie-ish and vaguely ridiculous. Although for a guy who plugged chia seed pudding not once but twice on the show, I feel that you're on very shaky ground here.
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1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I did it for you. I'm going to get you a jar and then we'll see what you have to say after that.
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1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Can I talk to you by the vending machine or something? Like, what are the rules? Or do I need to go on Hinge and set my radius to one mile from the address of the house your client is evicting this guy from? What's the move here, you know?
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Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I just turned 20 years old, and I just ended a relationship of four years. We started dating when we were in high school, and I never pictured myself marrying anyone else. As of the beginning of this year, he had bought a ring and was planning to propose, but decided not to go through with it.
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1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
It was really hard to hear he wasn't ready, but I was grateful he didn't propose if he wasn't feeling confident. This also allowed me to start seeing some red flags. As a middle child and people pleaser slash fixer, I would make excuses that enabled him to be selfish. Over the past two years, he made comments about my makeup, hair, music, and general lifestyle choices.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
All of these comments were hurtful because I've done a lot of self-discovery and he knew they were things that I loved about myself. He would also constantly complain if I wanted to go on a date that involved driving or when he had to drive two hours to attend my best friend's wedding that I was in. In general, he just never made an effort to be with me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
For the majority of our relationship, I usually saw him once a week. It also feels weird that my day-to-day isn't really going to change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
It helps when your partner is willing to get in the car to hang out with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I wonder how often they would have seen each other if they did get engaged. Fine, I'll see you twice a week now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
He did have some great qualities, but I usually didn't see that side. I romanticized our relationship. In my head, he was my Prince Charming.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
But I woke up last week and realized I do not deserve to be in a relationship where I'm not a priority. It didn't even seem like he liked the person I'm becoming. I thought for a long time that he was my person until I realized my person wouldn't need to be told to respect my boundaries and basic needs. Yeah, of course. It's settled. Not your guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
He freaked out at first when I ended things, but I stuck to my decision. We were able to talk and realized we were both over the relationship, and no one wanted to deal with the problem. I'm empowered by my ability to finally advocate for myself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I also took comfort in the fact that he seems to be willing to do a lot of therapy and self-work to address his issues, but I also recognize that's no longer my responsibility. Yes, brava. At the end of the day, I'm confident I made the right decision, and it ended in the best way I could have asked for. It's still super fresh, but I don't feel any anger towards him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
But I am left with a lot of complicated feelings and unsure where to go next because I never let myself think of life without him. What in the world do I need to do to heal? Signed, looking to commune with you two dudes on what to conclude from this still fresh wound.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
And then he'll grab it for you off LexisNexis or something like that. That is hilarious. I did not think you were going to Dark Jordan matchmake me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, totally. One of the interesting parts of falling out of love with someone or just ending a relationship is this chance to fall back in love with yourself. Oh, yeah, I am pretty awesome. What do I want to do today? Like, here's what I think and feel about the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
You forget how fun you are sometimes when you have all this time to spend with yourself after you've been in a relationship for a while. Yeah, it's a great feeling. It's a really special feeling. And it's not that you can't be connected with yourself when you're with somebody else. That's the sign of a good relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
But being in a relationship, especially one like this, it does have a way of taking you away from yourself. And it sounds like covering up some of her authentic feelings and taking up just a lot of energy. And when you end things, you get to live on your own terms again. You get to rediscover yourself, maybe even discover parts of yourself for the first time, like our friend here is doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
And that is exhilarating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
That was your post-breakup healing routine, Color Me Mine on a Tuesday. Hey, don't judge, man. I was 24 and I needed a new mug, okay? Oh, because the girl kept it in the breakup? Is that it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
This is why you need a prenup, by the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
So trust that too. Yeah, for sure. The part of the healing she does control, though, is what she learns and takes away from this relationship, because all of these great insights that she's having now, that is, to your point, Jordan, the reward for the pain. That's what creates meaning. And the meaning is a big part of healing, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I think that's what allows us to go through really painful stuff in life. And to come out the other side and say like, oh, that was brutal, but I now see this pattern clearly. I'm now in touch with this quality in myself. I now have that goal or I've developed that capacity that I wouldn't have had if this relationship hadn't ended.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
So I find that that meaning becomes a kind of medicine for the pain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
The other amazing moment is when she said that she knows she can't control his growth. He's not her responsibility anymore. Amen, yeah. That is basically the opposite of codependence. So that's also huge.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, there's a little truth to that. Also, this thing she said at the very end, how she's not sure where to go next because she never let herself think about life without her boyfriend. That's also a really important piece of all this. I get the sense that she feels a little dazed after the breakup. She's unmoored, which of course she does her whole life for four years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
And the whole future she imagined was with this guy. So to go from that structure to just wide open ocean can be very disorienting. And depending on your personality and your life experience and your age, of course, being pushed into that uncertainty brings up all sorts of feelings, namely fear, of course, which is very normal. The flip side to that uncertainty is pure possibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
So many things are possible now. So to Jordan's point a moment ago, I'm not sure if there's a ton for you to do here. It's more like you have a cool opportunity to get friendly with this feeling. Just getting friendly with it, at least getting curious about it, that is very healing too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
So you say you're not sure where to go next, and I'm over here thinking like, great, how exciting, how interesting, painful, scary, yes, but also very exciting. The older I get, the more I come to appreciate that we don't really get anywhere by necessarily knowing where we're going.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
We get places by following goals and pursuing people and exploring places that pique our curiosity and teach us things and light us up. But knowing where you're headed, that can be very useful. It gives you a trajectory, but we rarely get exactly where we think we want to go in life. And in my experience, that destination is besides the point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So try to hold that idea close and embrace this uncertainty, which means making peace with the fear and the confusion and all of that. Those feelings are not inherently bad. They're just byproducts of the gift of not knowing what your life is going to be like now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Which, by the way, that's usually a gift at any age, but I think it's especially a gift at 20 years old when you're really just beginning your life. It is exactly where you're supposed to be.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. I guess I'm getting my Emperor's Cloud Mist at the Starbucks on Civic Center Drive from now on. Anyway, so I have to tell you, though, there were some funny moments during voir dire. So first of all, endless questioning of the jurors. It took all afternoon and half of the second day to select a jury.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
for this case that they said would definitely wrap up by friday people on this jury went on about their lives and their stories they want to know what's your name what's your occupation what part of town do you live in do you live with any adults are those people landlords or lawyers, or do they work in the legal profession? Stuff that might bias you in some way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
But these people are like, 20 years ago, my mother owned a rental property and there was a kerfuffle about everyone is like collectively rolling their eyes while these people just go on about the most inane details. And then every like fifth or sixth person, somebody was like, I live here. This is what I do. Yep. No. Yes. I can be impartial. Thank you. Goodbye. And we were all just, thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Can we just move this along? It was so funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Literally. What was the question? What you just did was literally one of the women on this panel was this older lady who was like, they were like, what's your occupation, ma'am? She's like, well, for many years, I was an admissions officer at such and such university. But There was a change in leadership and I was sadly laid off. It was a difficult time. I decided to pivot into this other thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
And I worked as a executive assistant at a like we're all just like, lady, this is not your LinkedIn bio. You're retired now is what you're saying. You're retired. Just yeah. The punchline to her story was I haven't worked for the last few years. I'm retired now. We're like, oh, my God. Could have been a one-word answer. Could have been a one-word answer. Unreal, dude.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
People, storytelling, not a universal skill.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, because a couple moments it was like, you understand that this voir dire process is not your own personal podcast. Nobody's here to hear your life story, which was not that interesting anyway. Yeah. It was hilarious. It was such a diverse panel. Some people were landlords. A lot of people were tenants. So they all got dismissed, I assume. Actually, not all of them. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
But I think there were two people who were explicitly anti-landlord. There was a guy whose whole job was to help people get into housing and to like advocate for rules that would allow them to stay longer and they can't be evicted if they don't pay rent, et cetera, et cetera. And a couple of people were very pro landlord. A couple of people were like, yeah, I own 15 rental properties.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
One woman was eight and a half months pregnant and she was like, look, I can serve, but I constantly have to pee. So it might be a real inconvenience and hold everyone up. And the judge was like, it's no problem at all. We have a bathroom just through there. But if you go, we have to pause and everybody has to go. Anyway, she was dismissed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
There was a Ukrainian woman who was like, I think it's ridiculous that landlord tenant issues require a jury trial in the first place. Like she was so angry about it. She got dismissed. A couple of people in the jury pool were lawyers, real estate investors. Several of them straight up said it would be next to impossible for them to set aside their pro-landlord bias.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
With the exception of those two people I just mentioned who were pro-tenant, it was really fascinating. Almost every single person, even the people who do not own property, were like, the law in California is way too skewed toward the tenants. The tenants' rights are out of control. I thought that was interesting. It's just clearly a post-COVID thing. There was one great moment, though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, but speaking of which, do you know who wasn't wearing functional athleisure the last two days? Me, because I was on jury duty this week, and that's why we had to record later in the week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
The lawyer, you know, my future wife, she's interviewing this young woman in the jury pool. I think she was a tech executive or something. And this young woman was constantly laughing throughout the whole process. And she asks her what she asks every single person on the jury, which is, do you think you could set aside any preconceptions you have and give both sides a fair shake?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
And without missing a beat, this woman goes, oh, yeah, totally. I love to make judgments.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
It was one of those that's definitely ending up on overheard LA moments. And they approved her and nobody dismissed her. That's really funny. She just walked across the room and she was actually kind of excited. Oh, man. They ended up picking a jury. I was in the extras pool or whatever. So I went home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
So I just sat there for two days listening to everybody's life story and opinions on landlords and tenants for nothing. But I actually enjoyed it. It felt good to do my duty. And also, yeah, just great research on people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
At that point. Yeah. They never even put me on the inside of the box or even on the outside of the box.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
No, I was even outside of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
But for a second, I was like, there are so many people here. I'm definitely not getting chosen. And then they dismissed so many people. It was like, if they had dismissed two or three more people, I might've ended up on the jury.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
You know... It would be an amazing story, but I don't think that I've embraced that level of creepiness yet personally in my life. Perhaps I should. Sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Just click the Spotify link. You'll understand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, When I was 20 years old, I dated and got pregnant by a selfish, irresponsible 27-year-old man. He wanted me to get an abortion, but I couldn't do it. He ended up breaking up with me when I was six months pregnant, saying I'm not ready to be a father. After my son was born, I needed money, so I went to the DA and tried to get child support.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
I dressed up a little bit. Maybe I just wanted the opportunity to dress up. There were a lot of people wearing athleisure. Too much athleisure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
My ex was personally served, but he never showed up for the hearing. Because he was an immigrant, possibly illegal, and didn't have a social security number, the DA told me that there was nothing they could do. I got no help from him and never saw him again. A few years later, I met another, much better man. He proposed after telling me he wanted to adopt my son, which he did.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1144: Can Family Ties Overcome Son's Deranged Lies? | Feedback Friday
We married, and I thought everything would be okay with my son. Several years later, I had a daughter with my husband. By three years old, my son was displaying behavior problems. Many times I was called into the office at his preschool for some infraction, from throwing stuff on the roof to peeing on the wall to flushing sticks down the toilet. He bit and hit other kids regularly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I was like, this is going to be a banger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I mean, they brushed elbows during Tchaikovsky. I think you're bonded for life at that point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a soon-to-graduate senior PhD student in a STEM field in the US, and recently my lab recruited a new graduate student. Imagine an Indian baby-faced Dwight Schrute, always sharply dressed and enveloped in a very thick cloud of cologne.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
The other reason I feel for him is he's a good person. You are. You are a good person. The fact that you saw this guy and you were like, huh, he's weird, but I like his enthusiasm. I think he's smart. I want to give him guidance. I can sympathize with him. That says a lot about you. Now, that empathy has also gotten you into a bit of a sticky situation, and maybe we should come back to that, but.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I just want to acknowledge you for being a solid human being by even considering being this guy's friend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And more importantly, that there might be a part of your personality that has been brought out by this guy, specifically this empathy and this kindness that are wonderful, but might sometimes tip over into a sense of duty or unboundaried loyalty.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
While we didn't work directly together, I enjoyed his enthusiasm when talking shop and enjoyed giving him guidance, especially socially, in part because I could sympathize. He has a real case of science brain. During one conversation about Boeing, he actually started listing off all the airplane model names he knew. 747, F-16, 787. To me, against my will.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Those are really good questions because it might also be interesting for him to consider what exactly drew him to this guy. It's fascinating and it's also weirdly touching that he saw some qualities in him that he found, for lack of a better word, attractive or at least interesting. He enjoyed his enthusiasm. He liked that he could nerd out with him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
But also he said that he enjoyed giving him guidance because he could relate. But then what was he getting out of that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. I think both can be true. I think it can be true that he genuinely identified with this guy, wanted to help him, enjoyed his company, and that there was something maybe gratifying about being able to steer him to some degree. And there's nothing inherently wrong with finding that fulfilling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
But as he does the postmortem on this friendship, it might be good for him to notice if there's a part of him that wants to feel needed or useful or essential or something by taking on a person with a personality like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And again, I just want to be clear. I'm not judging him for any of this. I mean, human relationships, they contain so much information. They bring so much out of us. I'm just appreciating that this might be one interesting strand of their relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Right. What did he say? True assimilation is a myth. Right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He's often hyper-confident, has excellent memory recall, and loves rules, physical safety, consistency, authority, power, and punishment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's so bizarre. It's like he's making the argument true by insisting on these beliefs. And also democracy is holding India back because its people are emotional and they're feral. I have no idea what voters in India in general are like. I don't know how you can even paint a country that large with such a broad brush. But being emotional, being feral...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Couldn't he just as easily be talking about himself?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yes, that's the thing that he's blind to or that he's in touch with on some level, but he's disowning. including, most interestingly, his sexual orientation, which I just find the most sad about all of this. So we're back to the earlier question of how much of this guy's politics and his worldview are actually just projections of aspects of himself that he finds shameful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Because there's obviously a link between a closeted gay man who thinks that the government is trying to turn everyone gay, or between an abused child, essentially, and someone who grows up to admire Vladimir Putin.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I know. The years of therapy it would take to unpack everything that he's been through and heal the person hiding inside is insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
My suspicion is that one of the reasons he likes me so much is that my wife is an Indian citizen like him, while I am a white American. Over time, he became more comfortable and started opening up about his thoughts on other things, thoughts he was afraid to share with anyone else. It started when he invited me over to his apartment for tea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Hates gay people and democracy, but also loves going to the ballet and giving flowers to the ballerino. I just want to point that out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I know it's so crazy, but it's like go on a platonic gay mandate with your white American colleague who's married to an Indian woman and then hit on the dancer afterward in Moscow, bro. See how Putin feels about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Exactly. Also, there's no ballet in Pyongyang. I can tell you that firsthand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
They didn't want to show us the ballet hall because that would, whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Not like I've been there four times and wanted to hang myself after day number three. Super nice there. Super fun.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
His place was immaculate and well-scented, and he made the tea and set out snacks very precisely. Then he started to get into one of his favorite hobbies, geopolitics. He talks so quickly, with so many overly detailed facts and shocking conclusions, that it can be like a tornado of madness. I started hearing things like, the UN is doing what Hitler could not, Ukraine is full of a bunch of Nazis.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
No, I don't think so. I fully agree. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I kind of have a fantasy of our friend here delivering all of this to this guy and just seeing what happens just as an experiment, because who knows? But the odds of success seem very low. And yeah, I'm with you. His number one job is to protect himself, not to re-educate a Nazi sympathizer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And that's what puts this over the edge for me, that I just don't know what he's getting out of this friendship. If he were growing in some meaningful ways, if this colleague of his were a brilliant scientist who was pushing him to do great work in the lab,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
or some of his ideas did hold water and they were making our friend here a better thinker, or if this guy were funny and entertaining and he were kind of like in on the joke of himself to some degree, that might be a different story, but he's not. He's just out of his tree, dude. I don't know what to say. Like that seems to be draining our friend here more than nourishing him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And as long as that's the case, I think you got to pull back and prioritize yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. The old coast till you ghost.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Exactly. Except I'm not sure if he's necessarily being avoidant by not saying anything directly because he might have some good reasons to keep things on an even keel while they're still working together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Dark, but basically, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
You never know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, as long as it's not like I want to get this guy in trouble because he did say please don't tell anybody at the lab about how I feel. But yeah, if this guy is also saying I hate gay people, I think they should die. That's something maybe you should flag. You could also talk to the head of your lab about this. That's part of their job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Just tell them that you're not trying to like get him in unnecessary trouble. You're just concerned and you want them to know what's going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I know this is tricky. Part of me wants to say, make this gay colleague in the lab feel safe. Give him the information he needs. But then another part of me is wondering, like, does that just create a problem for this guy that he doesn't need to deal with? Because this other guy, the problematic colleague guy, there's a world where he doesn't attack anybody.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And now if this gay colleague knows how this other guy feels, is he's just going to be on guard all the time and feel super uncomfortable every time he comes to the lab for no reason.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
But also such a weird message to relay. This guy might invite you to the ballet one day. He might also jump you in the parking lot. Not in a fun way, by the way. It's like, which one is he?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
They're ethnically Russian and need to be reunited with Russia. People of different ethnicities will never be able to successfully live together. True assimilation is a myth. Democracy is holding India back because its people are emotional and feral.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
What's next? Dear Dark Jordan and Regular Gabe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Regular Gabe. Doesn't add much, but somehow also does.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So she doesn't end up in jail. Got it. So she goes on. For the last two years, I've lived next to very inconsiderate neighbors who rent the house that they live in. They have trash all over their yard and it often blows into ours. Multiple times now, we've noticed rats crawl under their porch and probably into their house.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
There's also been an uptick in coyotes venturing from the woods behind us into our yards. My neighbors also have a trashy car that's missing its muffler. It's so loud that it rattles my house, and you can't hear the scratching of the part of their bumper that drags on the ground when they drive.
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He showed me an obviously bullshit video of an outdoor Nazi rally that then cut to Alexei Navalny in a group of people outside in the same weather as proof that he was a Nazi. I'd have to brush off violent war videos depicting Ukrainian losses that gave him a nasty grin. His number one idol, whom he fantasizes about advising, is the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, Vladimir Putin.
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For about a week and a half, I called the non-emergency police number every time the car turned on, but the cops said that nothing can be done unless the noise is still going on when they arrive. I recently emailed someone from the county auditor website to try and reach the owners of the house, but crickets. I'm a tired parent of a three-year-old, and I'm so done being on their schedule.
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They wake up my daughter, too. I know in my bones that I can't have a civil conversation with them because I vibrate with anger every time I hear them or talk about this. Plus, they've had years to do the right thing, so I don't really care to chat with them. Short of a lawsuit, what can I do here? Wait for the rats to get them? Any other suggestions?
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Signed, going to war with the maniacs next door and giving them what for without causing an uproar because I deplore their ear and eyesore.
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I think if you can create an eyesore, you can create an earsore, right? The car is an earsore for sure.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And I have to say that community delivered. Those people are so hyped.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Good idea. You merely adopted the dark.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He also admires Xi Jinping, Abraham Raisi, and Kim Jong-un. He believes that the people of North Korea are doing great, and that anything to the contrary is Western propaganda. Everything was delivered in an incredibly blunt, matter-of-fact way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yes, that is really sound advice. And if the landlord can't or won't help, then that original Redditor's advice is to attend city council meetings and just talk about what's happening. You could write to your mayor. You could engage other neighbors to do the same. Again, this is a process, but if you guys keep at it, someone somewhere will start paying attention.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And if you're still not getting anywhere, you could take the landlord to court. I don't know if it's worth your time and money, but a letter drafted by an attorney might be enough to get them to take action. But that's something you should talk about with a lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Also, another Redditor suggested looking into these landlords and making sure that they themselves are following the laws around renting out their home. Because if they're not on top of the property and they're renting it out to people who are dodgy, you just never know. Maybe they're not obeying the law in other ways.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And if they don't play ball, that could be another way to get them out or force them to change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, bootlicker Big Bang Theory. A parade of despots that this guy loves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
But on that note, I do want to talk about the other big thing she hasn't tried, apparently, which is just going over there and talking to them. She said that she knows in her bones she can't have a civil conversation with them. But the reason she doesn't think she can have a civil conversation is that What did she say? She vibrates with anger every time she hears them or talks about this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But I don't know. I just got to point out that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't have a civil conversation. I understand that these people are probably mentally ill. They're Neanderthals. But it's actually our friend here's anger that's preventing her from at least trying to go over there and ask them politely to keep it down and clean up their trash.
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So it sounds to me like her feelings about them are very intense, very chaotic, and she's not sure she can regulate herself enough to handle this conversation directly.
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I mean, who knows what's happening over there? And if she does try and they do brush her off, then... at least she'll know for sure that all of this other work that we've been talking about is necessary. Whereas she might spend six months calling the cops every night and filing reports and going to city council meetings when all it would have taken is a five minute conversation at their door.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It's funny, there's this modern thing, especially here in America, where we often appeal to law and authority to address problems where, you know, custom and relationship could do the job. We call the police to complain about noise before we just walk 10 feet next door and Politely ask the neighbor, like, hey, can you turn the music down? It's a little loud.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Because I think we haven't generally been taught how to have these conversations. As a group of people, I think we're largely pretty avoidant. And our relationships with our neighbors in this modern world have broken down so much. You know, in other cultures, they're way better about this. But look, who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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These neighbors, even if they are out of their minds, maybe they would fix the muffler if they knew that it was driving a tired mother and her three-year-old crazy with the sound.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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maybe hearing that directly from her while she's standing in front of them, if she prepped for this conversation and found a way to deliver this calmly and kindly and respectfully and all that, maybe that's all they need to hear in order to change. But by not even trying to go over there, she's not giving them the information they need to know that they have to change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And so in a weird way, I think that our friend here is inadvertently contributing to this situation that she says she hates so much, at least until she finds out for sure that they are unwilling to change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My father was an alcoholic and a cheat. He and my mother got married at 16 as my mom was pregnant with my sister. Two years later, I came along. My childhood was okay, but had its problems because of his drinking and cheating and the fighting between my parents.
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Sorry, I've been sitting on that one for like three years. Yeah, for the longest time. You happy? Did that get out of your system?
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Daddy chill.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
When I grew up and started a family, I worked for my dad. We both traveled a lot. Mom always said he was a cheat, but I sided with my dad. I was so wrong. 20 years ago, my dad called me from North Carolina and said he couldn't find mom. I went to his house and broke the door down. My mom had committed suicide.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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She couldn't live with him or without him. He cheated on her and took her for granted, and she finally snapped. There aren't many ways to see it. He is responsible for her death. I've never recovered. I tried some therapy, but it hasn't stuck. I got addicted to opiates for 14 years, which ruined my life, bankrupted me, and stretched my marriage to its limits. I'm seven years clean, though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I just celebrated my 35th anniversary and turned 54 this year. After many years of work, my two boys and I have a solid relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
The issue now is my dad. Six months after my mom passed, he went on a date with a woman younger than me. The next day, he brought her home, and the day after that, they announced that they were getting married. What? That is so bizarre. Twenty years later, he has five daughters. Two of them have moved a thousand miles away already. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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His wife was not involved in my mother's demise, but she walked all over her memory. She's either ignorant or evil, maybe both. I supported them all financially for years as I felt bad for my half-sisters. I finally declared bankruptcy and stopped, and they found other people to sponge off of.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I cannot stand being with this woman. My boys also will not talk to my father. He skipped both of their weddings as his wife was not invited. They won't forgive him. Cutting my father off would be better for me, but then he's still my dad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I'm going crazy. He's like a mental tornado, and he constantly sucks you in. He gets my energy, and that energy my wife deserves. Do you think I should cut my father off for good? Why can't I shake him off? What can I do? Signed, looking for the chops to take a new tack with my pops when I struggle to stop letting my energy drop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
You mean like healing these old wounds?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Especially if cutting off a parent is a way to avoid or bypass some of these other important processes that we've been talking about, which given what you've shared with us, feels like it might potentially be in the mix. Jordan, we talk so much on the show about stories, our personal stories, and
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
how they develop and when to take them seriously and when to reconsider them and when to put them down. And to your point a moment ago, our friend here is living with some really powerful stories, which are rooted in objective facts. And those are making his relationship with his father and with his stepmother very difficult, which I can totally understand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
But I think we have to talk about a few of those stories for a moment and just see how they might be operating. The biggest one, of course, is about his mother's suicide. He said she couldn't live with his dad or without him. He cheated on her. He took her for granted. She finally snapped.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yeah, that is quite a story. And look, in a way, it's probably true, right? He hurt her profoundly. It sounds like he provoked her in a number of ways over a long period of time. He made her feel unappreciated and her pain, I imagine, must have been so great that taking her own life seemed like the only answer.
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Yes. And apparently it's a Swiss clock because that was way too complicated.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
What strikes me about the story that he's responsible for her death, besides the fact that it's a very striking narrative, is that it's also very rigid. Our friend here is very rigid in the way that he holds it. He literally said there are not many ways to see this. And I can appreciate why it might feel to him that there aren't other ways to see that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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These quotes are only the tip of the iceberg. If I disagreed, that would make him explode enthusiastically, not angrily. And I came to the conclusion that he rarely, if ever, got to open up. So I let him go on. My theory is that he's a kind of geopolitical incel. Oh, that's brilliant. That this was ultimately caused by his social isolation due to his poor social skills.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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given the chain of events, but I also think that there might be another way to look at it, because there always is, right? And in this case, I think you could also make room for the fact, or at least the possibility, that his mother also made the choice to respond to her circumstances, to her marriage, to the pain that she was in, by killing herself, rather than, say, divorcing the dad and
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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building her own life and healing from this marriage or just continuing to bear this pain, but in a new way. Now, look, we can debate whether she really had a choice in that. Maybe there is a kind of pain that is so great that it doesn't really allow for the kind of agency that I'm getting at here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Right. So I am allowing for that possibility, but I also believe that the vast majority of people, even those with serious trauma, have some kind of choice and that they have a responsibility to some degree to take care of themselves when they are very badly hurt. So there's another story here that he might not recognize or that might not be fully available to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And that story is that his mother's personal story, which she felt was the potential of her life, what she believed about herself, what she was capable of, you know, what she deserved, the many possibilities of her life outside of her husband. That story had to be so compromised, so limited, so impoverished that she made an incredibly tragic choice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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So from the outside to an angry son who is watching his father drink and cheat and lie and fight and take his mother for granted, I get why the narrative is he's responsible for her death. And there's no denying that she was the victim of a lot of awful treatment.
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Of course, she stuck with him for apparently decades, knowing that he was cheating on her. She knew before our friend here did. Yeah, she knew before anybody. So what I'm inviting him to do, and it's up to him if he wants to do this, it's his story to live with, but I'm inviting him to make room for the fact that his mother did participate in all of this to some degree.
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And I know that she was 16 years old when they got married. She was a child. He was a child. Who knows what resources they had to deal with life and with each other. But in the end, his mom chose on some level to take her own way out. His father didn't say, you have to go kill yourself now. She said, you've hurt me so profoundly, I have to go kill myself.
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And if that's true, even a little bit, I do wonder how that might inform his feelings about his father now, and also this whole question about whether to cut him off completely.
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Yeah, we'll see. That's for him to find out. I'm not trying to tell him that all of his anger will go away if he just does this thing or that it should. I'm just inviting him to be curious about the most accurate story. And then to see if anything changes. Yeah, I have a feeling it might.
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I think what it might do at a minimum is help him find some relief from the intensity of his anger, even just playing with the idea that there were two people in his parents' marriage and that they both bear some responsibility.
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even if he ultimately decides that dad really was the primary aggressor, just playing with that idea might move him a little bit more into a state of introspection and empathy, maybe even grace. It might spread the feelings out a little bit more, smooth them out, and make room for just how complicated this whole story actually is.
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I thought I could help the situation by being friendly and trying to be a good influence. As I left, he asked for confidentiality, knowing this stuff could professionally ruin him.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that is a really good point and such a good question. Yes.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I tried some therapy, but it hasn't stuck, he said.
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But there's a bit of a monolithic story there, too.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
And be an excellent place to explore the question of what kind of relationship he actually wants to have with his dad and why it's so hard for him to shake him off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I'm really glad you picked up on this. It sounds like a small story, but it is actually a big one. It's interesting. I'm just now realizing that what ties the two stories together is this question of like, how much responsibility do we have for ourselves? The narrative that he's holding about his mom points the finger directly at dad. He did this to her. It wasn't her fault.
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We all have a good reason to be angry at him. And this narrative that he's holding about therapy, at least the way that he framed it for us in his letter, it might have just been the way he chose to put it, but in a way, it points the finger at therapy, right? You didn't stick, I gave you a try.
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I tread lightly now because I do not know our friend here well enough to know whether this is true, but it might be interesting to explore how that theme of personal responsibility played out in this family, and how they were all taught to take accountability for their feelings and find ways of working through them because...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It does sound like dad takes very little responsibility for his impulses, for how much he's hurt people. Stepmom seems to take very little responsibility for being respectful and thoughtful about the family that she was very quickly entering. And maybe she literally can't do that. As he said, stepsisters took little responsibility for their financial wellbeing. They relied on our friend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Apparently they're now sponging off of other people and mom might not have taken full responsibility for her pain. We already talked about that. And now our friend here might. not be fully taking responsibility for his healing, for his growth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Now, whether this quality actually got passed down through his parents or whether it's just an interesting theme that they're all wrestling with in different ways, I think that would be a really important thing for him to look at.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Man, that is a good point. I even find the story about how his wife deserves his energy interesting because yes, that is true. She does deserve his energy more than his father does. But is that closing him off from the other story that he himself deserves his own energy, which he is giving away to his father, energy that might take him into therapy or bring him closer with his own family or
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if this is what he decides to do, ultimately pull back from his dad.
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I might be his only friend in person. Oh yeah, I think so. Nearly every single weekend, he texts me wanting to hang out. We're often the only people left in the lab late at night, and he'll use the opportunity to casually drop how liberalism or gay people are a secret conspiracy to destroy society.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is Mixbook. So Mixbook is this really cool publishing platform that basically allows you to create custom photo books, cards, other personalized items, and then prints them for you and sends them to you. This platform is amazing. It basically gives you like all the templates and design tools you need.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It makes it super easy to make these beautiful professional looking books and gifts. So you can do a photo book for a family thing. You could do a greeting card for the holidays. You could do an invitation for a party. You could do pretty much anything.
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All you do is upload your photos and then you select from their layouts and designs and effects and it just creates this very unique and beautiful product.
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and you do it all online and then they ship it to you and they can ship worldwide it's an amazing option for anybody who wants to create like a special or customized gift my sister is a jedi level mixbook user she is so good at it and she's made these beautiful mixed books with photos from our trips that i've taken with her and her husband and over the last two years we went to japan we went to portugal together
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And she, for the holidays, created these beautiful mixed books with all of our photos. And she gave them to me as a holiday gift, which is one of the greatest gifts I've ever gotten. And we looked through the books together and it was like we got to go on vacation again. And she put like all the inside jokes from the trip. She wrote them into the photos and laid them out so beautifully. And
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It's really just like a very special thing to give somebody. And it's a great way to preserve an event or a vacation, kind of memorialize it. And then you have something really beautiful to put on your coffee table and look at every once in a while. So highly recommend the service. I think you're going to like it. We'll link to Mixbook in the show notes.
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We're just big fans of these people.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
In his mind, liberalism leads to clubs, which lead to women having multiple sexual partners, after which they would never want to start a family. He was genuinely shocked when I told him people have sex before marriage in this country, even without these clubs. He somehow does not believe that happens in his culture.
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Anyway, back to Feedback Friday. What's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a sophomore in high school, and I've poured a large amount of my time into learning computer-aided design. As a result, I fell into a startup involving a founder on the Forbes 30 under 30 list and an ADHD YouTuber with a substantial following.
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I took over the role of product design from an established engineer because I made better results quicker. Also, because of my work ethic and ability, I was able to get an additive manufacturing engineer from one of the biggest names in additive manufacturing on board. The imposter syndrome is real, but I've gotten over it because I can see the real effects of my work.
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I love that he's able to feel the imposterism and make room for the fact that he's actually delivering real results. That's basically the cure for imposter syndrome. I love that. So he goes on. In about two months, the team got the first prototype of our product working and got it sent to the YouTuber to feature on their channel.
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I asked them when the video would be done and we could move on to another step of the project, and they said the video would take two weeks. That was four months ago. I've tried to schedule meetings to work on the project and find out what the roadblocks are, but every meeting has fallen through.
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Even the additive manufacturing engineer messaged me to tell me that they know I must be frustrated with the founders and that they know how flaky they are. This person promised some support on whatever projects I may work on, but I don't like pulling any favors from my network. I don't have the resources to take on any other projects, and I really want to light a fire here so we can keep going.
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How do I get these people focused on this project without looking too pushy or breaking this project apart? Signed, a young buck feeling like a lame duck because my project's in the muck and my boss is duck every attempt to get this thing unstuck.
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Right, that's fair. But then this additive manufacturing engineer did say he knows they're flaky in general. So apparently this is just how they are, which is not a good sign.
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Everyone knows that.
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Yes. And three, you're doing all of that diplomatically, constructively in the spirit of wanting everybody to succeed. You're not just like complaining or calling them out. which there might be a time for that down the road if this nonsense continues, but I do think it's really important to go through this stage of just acknowledging the problem and being the person looking for solutions.
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Yes, absolutely. Now, if they don't engage with you meaningfully after this email, and if they continue to kick the can down the road, then I think you need to consider whether these people really deserve your talent, your hard work. I'm not pushing you to that conclusion. I genuinely hope this works out. And this is just some temporary holdup or some dysfunction that they can work out.
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But I also think it's really important to pay attention to these signals when they pop up because the reality is,
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People who delay and delay and delay with zero explanation, people who dodge necessary conversations, bosses who don't honor your objectively valuable work, who don't treat you fairly, who don't seem to be taking you entirely seriously, which I'm afraid is what's starting to happen here. Those are real red flags. I'm not saying your bosses can't get better. I'm not saying it's all about you.
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In fact, I'm almost sure it's mostly about them and their flaws. So this isn't the end of the road. But you're still so young. You have so much to offer. This is probably your first real grown-up job. And by the way, congrats on having a front row seat to what a hot mess supposedly successful adults can be. Is it not fascinating? you're learning a lot about how people operate.
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So as you evaluate the future of this product, and as you consider whether you want to keep bringing good people in your network into this venture, and as you consider your future with these people and your larger career options, I would encourage you to take these data points very seriously, because unfortunately, a lot of these signals do not bode well, in my view.
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And unless you guys have some very good chats about why this is happening, and then they put in the work to do things differently, my experience has told me that this is probably only going to get worse.
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Yes, I agree completely.
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He's also deeply homophobic, in particular towards gay men, saying things like, ask any gay couple why they only adopt male children, and disowning a friend for coming out as gay. He claimed the CIA used capitalism to open secret gay clubs in the Soviet... What is it with this guy and clubs? He's obsessed with the clubs.
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He's probably not getting into too many of them and thinks that dastardly things go on in there, which they do. He claimed the CIA used capitalism to open secret gay clubs in the Soviet Union during the Cold War in order to weaken them. He thinks clubs are machines used to turn straight people gay.
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Not the crumbling infrastructure or the absolutely bankrupt political philosophy.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Communism and capitalism.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Oh, man, that was good. I heard that in a whole new way just now. That was great. I pressed him on how specifically this happens. He just gave me a look and said, you know, with a tone. No, I don't, I said. They cajole them, he emphasized with a particular hand gesture.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
They're turning the frogs. How are they doing that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Yeah. That's a lot of frog cajoling. My arms are tired. All right. Strap in, Papa, because he's going to kick it up a notch here. Oh, no. Then he invited me to see the ballet Black Swan together, just him and me.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Wow. We sat, neatly dressed and overly fragrant, in an audience of exclusively 40-year-old women. Of course. Afterward, he went out and bought flowers for one of the supporting male dancers, saying he's been following his work elsewhere and is a fan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He delivered the flowers in person, and I honestly don't think he understood, but the interaction was a bit flirty. Wow. Okay, so he took you on a date, then he hit on one of the dancers in front of you. Not cool, man. Not cool.
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1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He's also twice, unprovoked, brought up how handsome he thinks one of my brothers is after Facebook stalking me. What I'm getting at is that there's at least a 50% chance that he's gay or bi. Oh yeah, I think we got it, yeah. We got it at he put on a ton of aqua to Parma and took me to see Black Swan, but thank you for clarifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Oh yeah, some of my favorite hangs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
So uncomfortable. Oh, boy. Okay, he goes on. Once, during tea at his place, he opened up deeply about his past. He remarked on how he's so ugly he could never have a partner. He seems to hold respect for his mother, but every story about her has been very negative. He said his mother has called him a monkey and ugly due to his darker complexion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He explicitly stated that white people will always naturally be more beautiful than brown people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
That is heartbreaking. And the fact that he got this message from his mother. From his mom. Probably explains everything we've heard so far. He rationalizes never planning to have a family by saying that this way he'll never be vulnerable. What if someone takes my child hostage and points a gun to their head? Then I would have to do whatever they say, is one quote.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
This is one of the reasons that he's good in the lab. It's the only place he gets any self-worth. In his mind, without a career or power, he's nothing. He also reported that he was an excellent student in high school, but was bullied by peers. In one incident, a girl slapped him across the face on a dare in front of the entire class. He said the other students were laughing at him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
What tickles him to no end is that he got the teacher to reprimand the girl to the point of crying. He says there were many teacher-student beatings at his school in India, and those stories always put a sparkle in his eye. You can see the seeds for his love of authoritarianism and strongmen. Man, that is so interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
That doesn't really make sense to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Literally trauma, bro. This is my read to the little boy inside of this guy is wounded and frightened and he wants someone to protect him, someone to look up to. It's almost comically textbook.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
There's also something tribal about supporting leaders and parties like this, right? There's this mentality of I'm part of this larger thing. I belong to this community of powerful people. We're in charge. I think that's probably playing a role here, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I could go on and on. Feminism is a mental illness. Cops should have rocket launchers. Rodrigo Duterte is a great leader. The Reagan and Bush White Houses were a revolving door for pedophiles. Obama is a Kenyan and so on. He's also a bit upset with me right now because my wife refuses to hang out with him. Yeah, not surprised. Oh, I wonder why? Huh? How strange.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He keeps saying I must have painted him in an unfair light. No, dude, I want to say I'm just telling her your actual beliefs and that's enough. Yeah. I've always considered myself open and tolerant of people with views that differ from mine, but this kid is really pushing the line.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
I genuinely feel bad for him and frustrated about this possible waste of potential, but his aggressively militant views towards groups of people I respect and work with are problematic. There is, for example, a gay male student in my lab, not to mention that his views are incompatible with Western society.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
He told me these things in confidence, but these views are so strong that they may eventually spill over into the real world, especially if he gets any of the power he so deeply craves. I've come to think I likely will never make significant progress on changing these views because his true community is his toxic online echo chamber.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1107: Ballet Date with a Geopolitical Incel Mate | Feedback Friday
Do you have any ideas on how to gracefully handle the situation? Do I just say nothing and move on after I graduate? Do I confide in a neutral third-party professor for advice? Do I warn the gay student in my lab? Should I attempt to stage an intervention with a group of friendly graduate students and save him? Signed, considering a confab about my concerning colleague in the lab.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I always knew she was brilliant, but man, she was really a font of wisdom on this topic. That's the legal side of things. I just want to touch very briefly on the other part of your story, which is these complicated family dynamics. Jordan, I find it so fascinating that our friend here was able to step away from the family when her mom died.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And it was only then that she was like, oh, my God, these people are so dysfunctional. There's so much narcissism. Like she didn't see any of that clearly. And she was actually like had a background in this stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Even if you're a doctor, yeah. I'm really glad she was able to do that. And I'm also glad that she has a relationship with these employees that allowed her to finally get to the bottom of all this. I'm just realizing that this coup is the first step in what will probably be a long process of healing and growing as a company.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
If she manages to take the reins, a big part of the turnaround that she's hoping to lead is probably going to be setting a very different tone at this place. You know, like changing the culture pretty dramatically. And I think that means a few things. It means creating an environment where people are not too scared to speak up when they see something...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
wrong or dysfunctional or legal, opening the lines of communication in general, because it sounds like people were really afraid to speak up. putting some new processes and values in place to prevent breaches like this from happening in the future. Although if she's at the helm, I doubt that this would happen. It doesn't sound like she's that kind of leader.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
There's always the possibility of other bad actors down the line or someone gets the idea to embezzle or whatever it is. Another thing she probably wants to do is make employees and leadership feel valued and heard and safe, which, by the way, might include an acknowledgement and an apology for taking a backseat and allowing her sister and her niece to do all of this damage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I know all of this was not her fault, but I bet it would be powerful for them to see her take accountability for her limited role in all of this and apologize for what they had to go through because these people have probably been through a lot with the sister and the niece at the helm.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And then, yeah, just assuring the staff that the management style of her sister and the niece is gone and making it clear to them that it's a new day and there's a very different culture, very different tone at this place now. I think this is an opportunity really just to not just clean up the mess and right the ship, but to shape this company the way she wants to shape it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And maybe take some inspiration from what her mom had to do when she took over the dad's company. That is such an inspiring example to follow. And I bet there are some incredible management lessons in there. So I just want to acknowledge that is part of the healing here too. And it's also part of securing her employees' passion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, so some news to share with you guys. I've decided to leave LA for a while and go traveling. So I've wanted to do this for a long time. There were always good reasons to put it off, work, I'd get a job. I didn't want to leave home or whatever, but I finally decided to do it. I'm going all in. I'm giving up my apartment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
and their loyalty as she takes over from this very dysfunctional chapter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
What are you talking about? I can't believe you gave me shit at the top of this segment. Yeah come out with preponder Ray Ray of the Evidei Oh my god, that's right
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm giving up my hot yoga studio, which was by far the hardest part of this equation. And yeah, I'm going to be a nomad for a while.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It's one of the worst ones you've done.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm good friends with my ex-husband and he's been in a relationship with his partner for six years. Lately, things have gotten really difficult between them. There's constant friction. She criticizes him, explodes at him for the smallest thing, often chucking him out of her house in the early hours of the morning. and belittles him in front of his friends and her children.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She accuses him of the most awful things, including ruining her children's lives. He's a good man, and there are a lot of people who would testify to this. None of what she says rings true. Because of a complicated history, they now live apart, but she works two days a week from home, so he'll go down to where she lives, a two-hour journey, and look after her kids while she's away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
No, I'm definitely not. I'm still going to be here. I'll just be recording the show from different places. But otherwise, business as usual. Except it might be midnight when we record, depending on where I am. We'll see. So where are you going? What's the itinerary? So my first stop is Costa Rica. I'm going to be doing yoga teacher training there for three weeks, which I'm super excited about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She works in education, so has the school holidays off. When it's term time, things between them seem okay, although the constant bad-mouthing is always there. But as soon as the school holidays approach, she finds a reason to kick him out. Then she lets him make up with her and say sorry, which always falls to him, just in time for the new school term and her free childcare.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My ex is a good man and does everything for her and her kids, often to the detriment of spending time with the son we have together. Every time he's kicked out, I'm the first to hear about it. I'm happy to lend an ear, but what I'm seeing from the outside is a toxic and perhaps abusive relationship that he's stuck in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I've tried my best from every angle I can think of to give him the courage to really look at his relationship. When things are bad, he agrees and says all the right things about ending it and focusing on his mental health. He knows it's a harmful relationship, but he can't help himself. He ends up back with her, ready for the cycle to start all over again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I can see the damage that this is causing, not only for him, but also for her children, who are caught up in the instability, and for my son, who's starting to doubt that his dad is a good role model. Do you have any advice about what I can say to finally convince him that he's worth more than this? Signed, Liberating My Ex From The Hex Of This Vexed Complex
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
or more out of avoiding the decision to end the cycle.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Is her husband a little disconnected from his emotions? Does he have a high tolerance for other people's crazy? Maybe. Is it hard for him to understand people's intentions or fully empathize with other people? Because all of those things would make it harder for him to see how dire the situation is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I think it starts by slowing down and really helping him take stock of what he is going through right now, how he feels about this woman and what's drawing him back to this relationship again and again. And also I would say how he's feeling about himself and his life in general apart from her, because I think that's probably also playing a role.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
We don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised if a lot of their conversations go like this. Dude, Denise is insane. You are at her beck and call. You keep driving down there. You say you're going to break up and then you don't. This is toxic. She's abusing you. You need to get out. And he's like, I know, I know I got to do it. I'm going to do it this time. He doesn't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Nama economy class. Exactly. Then I'm going to go to Portugal for the summer and hopefully get my Portuguese pretty strong and walk around and listen to Fado music and Do some writing and visit friends in Spain and Germany. And then I'm probably going to head to Japan after that, but I'm not sure the plan is hazy after that. We'll see what happens.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So obviously that doesn't work. Telling him what to do, even if he intellectually agrees with you, doesn't work. My sense is that he needs somebody to help him get in touch with the deeper stuff that's making it impossible for him to end the cycle.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And that means turning off the part of your brain that wants to just tell him what to do, which can be really hard when you are invested in a particular outcome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I hear that. But who is that person? Like, why would he be opening up to them about all of this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Okay? That's true. Except he's not writing in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Another option is a kind of intervention. You could try to get a group of friends and family together who are all concerned about this and make it a group conversation that he has to confront.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
What's frustrating about all of this is this guy has a few big things he needs to work on, right? One is obviously ending this relationship. Another is understanding why he got into it and why it's so hard to leave. Another is staying away from people like this in the future.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And then another, maybe the most important one, is getting in touch with his confidence, his sense of self, his dignity, and learning to stand up for himself when he has to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. Is there a priority to just achieve the result as soon as possible? Or is there a priority to allow him to go through a process that will hopefully allow him to build these muscles for himself, but that might also require more pain and chaos in the meantime?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Man, it's like catch 22, isn't it? It's like, which one comes first? You're making a good point. I also know that she's trying that and it's not working because he's not getting beneath the surface of this relationship. But to your point, yeah, maybe she does need to be more prescriptive with him, yank him out of the relationship, whatever that means, and then they can really get into it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But I guess what I'm getting at is even if he manages to finally end this relationship, which would be great, if he doesn't work through this stuff, then he's still going to be vulnerable to other people like this in the future. And he's still going to have these qualities and these patterns that have done a number on their family unit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So yes, in a way, this woman is the problem, but in a way, she's just one aspect of the real problem. And I just really want him to work on that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And it depends on work and how long I can get away with this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Fair. And it would be nice to save on the gas money too, I would imagine. Maybe if you show them what it'll save in fuel costs, that'll decide it for them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I'll pack my hats, you know, just like give us something to talk about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, two good friends of mine worked for me for 20 years in my home improvement business. Last year, they purchased the business from me and we're still good friends. I continue to come in for a few hours on Mondays to help them out and maintain the friendships.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I think you just did it perfectly. It was nice. Well played. So he goes on. They decided later that year to change their business banking from Wells Fargo to Bank of America. Soon after, they had fraud on the new account. The first two frauds were people cashing checks that looked like theirs but weren't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The bank reimbursed them for the fraudulent checks, and they opened a new checking account at Bank of America. Then an unauthorized ACH debit was made from their account for $30,000. Their office manager was on vacation, and the missing money wasn't noticed until a week later.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My own personal tariff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I assume it'll only get worse. Just those old world burns.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
We believe the ACH debit was a scammer who tricked the bank representative or the B of A system, but we're just guessing as the bank hasn't provided details. The fraud has nothing to do with any action from the business. No phone calls, no texts, no emails were made to allow this transaction, and none were made to the owners to validate it. The owners notified B of A as soon as they saw the fraud.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The bank said that they would get back to them within 60 days. But two months later, they were denied reimbursement because they didn't report the stolen funds within 24 hours of them going missing. Ridiculous. Which apparently is the policy for business bank accounts. Whereas for regular bank accounts, you have 60 days. That's infuriating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
This means that if a bank is a victim of a fraud on a client's account unrelated to any action of the account holders, if the account holders are not checking their account more frequently than every 24 hours, even on weekends and holidays, their money is at risk because the bank does not need to reimburse or assume any responsibility. This is totally insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Wow, two weeks in a row.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I would just call B of A and just play that clip on repeat until they give in. I'm sure that'll work. Sounds effective. I think if most business owners knew about this, they wouldn't keep any extra money stored in a business bank account other than what's needed for day-to-day operations.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And I think they would look for a bank that would be least likely to use this rule to get out of errors they made. My owners have worked up the chain of command at the bank and continue to be denied, with the only excuse being that the fraud was not reported within 24 hours. They've also filed a police report and filed a report with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Do you have any further advice for my friends and new owners? What banks are the most ethical, or at least not as likely to use this 24-hour rule to let themselves off the hook? Signed, Nickel and Dimed, because we didn't catch this crime in time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. You know me too well. How did you know? I already booked an ecstatic dance party. Yeah. No. I don't even know what that is. I do hope I have some fun stories to share. One thing I do want to give you guys a heads up on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I don't know if I'm always going to have a soundproof space to record, but I'm going to do my best and we're going to work with Jace, who's the wizard to make the sound as strong as possible. I hope it's not too far off. It shouldn't be awful. It's not going to be like, oh, I can't listen to this podcast anymore. It just might be a little more lively than usual.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. Reporting live from a football match in Marrakesh or something. Funny if I had to feedback Friday from the strangest places.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I've been with my current boyfriend for 10 years. We get along great, but lately I feel like things have gotten stale. He doesn't seem driven to me. His appearance has gotten messier. He gives me lazy vibes. I'm a very driven person, and lately I feel like he's not. For example, I tell him he needs to network and he's like, no, I don't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The whole networking thing is really bothering me, especially because I'm building a business myself and everything I've gotten is due to networking. He's very supportive of my business and helping me whenever I need it. He's a good person. I just wonder if he would even do things if I stopped bugging him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Another example, when we first started dating, I told him that not having a degree was a deal breaker. He went back to school and worked at the same time. What if I never pushed him to do that? Where would he be? At the same time, I'm still building my life. I'm nowhere near where I want to be for my age, which definitely affects me. But worrying about him also doesn't help.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And does he worry about me? I have no idea. Another thing, he's not straightforward with me about his finances. We don't live together yet because we live in one of the most expensive states. I ask him if he still wants to get married, but we don't seem to be moving in that direction.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I also found the only hot yoga studio in Porto. So if you come visit me, I'm going to drag you there. Can't wait.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm not sure what that means. Maybe they can't afford a bigger place for the two of them. That's the only thing that makes sense. But I also think that there's probably more to that after 10 years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
They still don't live together, which I guess is... possible, but I don't know. Maybe this is about more than just finances. So she goes on. Also, our parents are complete opposites, which I appreciate at times. All of this has also made me think about my history. For example, I've been thinking about this guy I talked to in college who gave me total mixed signals.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Then he started dating some other chick and literally married her right away. And the other day I was thinking that my boyfriend reminded me of my ex-boyfriend. He got messy and would become spiteful too. And our texting habits are the same as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
This is very hard to deal with. I feel so shitty for even thinking this way. But I can't imagine my life without him. I feel like our relationship is codependent. Will things change? Will things move forward? Or am I just wasting more years here? Signed, getting tripped up about whether to give up when my dude's slipping up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And I was like... That's a direct question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You got the third degree from Jen's mom on like the first time you met her?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
No, not today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She was doing her homework.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My father died in 1966 when I was nine and left his manufacturing business $3 million in debt, which would be almost $30 million today. My mother, who's an amazing woman, took over the company with no prior work experience, kept it running, and paid off all the debt within three years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
That's so funny. And was Jen like kicking her out of the table or was she like, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But your point is like, you're not cagey about your finances if you're okay. That's your point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Dot, dot, dot. I have a Robin Hood account and I skip her up every morning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She sold it for a lot of money, but soon started a new business in the same manufacturing area while also raising me in 1973. I have an older brother and sister who are 15 and 12 years older, respectively. During the 1990s, my mother transferred ownership in the company to me, my older sister, and our children. My sister has a daughter, an only child, and I have two daughters.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
If getting married is what she wants and if progressing in the relationship is the priority, if they're happy with where they are, I don't see that as an issue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I also wonder what it means to worry. She didn't say, does he think about me as much? Does he wonder what my path is going to be like? She said, does he worry about me as much? I'm not sure what to make of that, but I do get the sense that she feels lonely and misunderstood. And that's a tough feeling in a relationship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Or he doesn't know how to worry about her in the way that she wants to be worried about. But all of these are important feelings to pay attention to. The other thing we have to talk about, of course, is the other guys she's dated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Pattern, anyone? So very few details, kind of a sketch of her history, but somehow just enough. It was like a Monet of her past relationships.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Exactly. Now we understand. So her ex, very similar to her current guy, messy and apparently spiteful sometimes. Crucial data, yes. I think it's safe to say that there is some template at play here and a certain kind of partner she seems to be drawn to. She's the driven, conscientious...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The split is 50-50 between my family and my sister's family. My brother has been estranged from the family for years. I don't have any idea where he is or if he's still alive. In 2011, when I was 50, my mother died at the age of 90. She left behind a thriving manufacturing business, essentially debt-free, with a healthy cash flow and great and loyal employees.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
interested on top of it one and the partner is what a little lost a little chaotic maybe a little stuck looking to her to tell them what to do where to go yeah why that is i'm not quite sure that's for her to figure out there might be something gratifying about trying to galvanize a partner into taking action it might be familiar or safe to be the more together one
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I can see that. You're very passionate about this story. Yeah. There's a lot to get worked up about, but I guess I share your concern, especially around this whole spiteful thing. Yeah, that's the strong word. I don't know if these guys are spiteful because they're angry or bitter or just a little mean or something. If so, that's obviously a crucial quality to keep an eye on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But there is another possibility, which is that this template we're talking about where she seems to choose messy partners. She needs to motivate and fix basically. That might make these guys act a certain way. Sometimes they might lash out. It might make them act in a spiteful way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
whether that's making a hurtful comment or finding small ways to retaliate or holding a grudge against her, whatever that looks like. In other words, these guys might just be spiteful people, but falling into this dynamic with her, especially as men, might also bring up certain feelings for them, namely anger and maybe some shame. And I do wonder if that sometimes makes them act spitefully.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She's obviously curious about how this relationship echoes her past. So I think that's terrific. And I guess we're just inviting her to take a deeper look at what happens between her and her partners, not just what her partners are like in general, because that's not the full story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It is a bit of a curious connection to make. I wonder if what she's saying is, I just don't know where I stand with guys a lot of the time. Like, do they want to date me? Do they not want to date me? Do they worry about me as much as I worry about them? Are we on the same page or are we on separate tracks? But this is another hard one to diagnose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She might've also brought it up because she seems to want to get married and you don't seem to be moving in that direction. So she's thinking about this other guy who married this girl really quickly. And maybe she's just going like, why did that happen? And why is it so hard for me?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My mom was also one of those old-school, Depression-era, super right-wing, conservative people from Oklahoma who demanded her family stay together through thick and thin. We did until she passed, and then I could actually become a person of my own. I was finally able to see the dysfunctional, narcissistic family I came from.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I just feel the need to acknowledge one other, actually two other possibilities here, just to be totally fair, which is number one, her boyfriend might be a little depressed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It was the part where she said that his appearance has gotten messier lately. That's very classic, obvious. That's the hobosexual. Well, you're calling it hobosexual, but he might just be like very depressed. He's giving her lazy vibes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But he might actually be going through something really difficult and he can't locate his ambition or his zest for life at the moment. Also, to be fair, clearly there's a history of him not being the most ambitious. This is not entirely new. I don't know if we can chalk this all up to a mood thing, but it does sound like he's struggling more recently. And I do have compassion for that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And it does make me wonder if he might be going through some stuff, which can be really debilitating. And if so, then he does deserve a little more patience and a little more compassion as he works through that. The second possibility I want to acknowledge is something that came up a few weeks ago.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Jordan, do you remember when you took the letter from the woman who was dating the guy who wouldn't brush his teeth? Yes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And there were other issues there, but she also felt like she had to mother him. She had to like encourage him to do basic things and to get his life going and all of this. And several people wrote in and said, hey, just so you know, that can be the symptom of ADHD. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Now, look, I don't know if I'm at the point where I can, like, say it's fine that you don't brush your teeth because you have ADHD. I don't know. I'm not sure if that lets you off the hook for basic hygiene, but apparently it can be really difficult to do basic tasks, to stay on top of things, to follow through, to stick with multiple steps in a process or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
We're not hearing a ton of textbook ADD symptoms in this letter, so I'm really just wildly speculating, but I'm just trying to cover all of our bases. I guess the larger thing is, can we be curious about what this guy is going through? There might be a couple narratives here. One is just that he doesn't share her values, and he's not as ambitious as she is, and that's the end of the story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But there might be other narratives there too, right? It would be helpful if she could appreciate everything he's going through, if she's going to try to help him before she decides whether to leave.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
For example, my sister's daughter is now 52 years old and has always been treated like a princess until the day came that she actually needed to work and not just buy clothes, drink, and do drugs. Of course. She's a supreme narcissist and a pathological liar. Something I only saw when I had the opportunity to step away from my family, despite having a PhD in clinical psychology. Huh.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And I appreciate that you're willing to be that guy for her because it might be what she needs to hear. But I think what this really comes down to is how is he dealing with all of this? How is he relating to her? If he's like, I'm stuck, I'm demotivated, I'm depressed. I don't want to be this way. I need help. Can we talk about it? Can you help me?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm going to do the work, but I just, I can't be alone in this. That's a very different way to deal with your challenges than to just be sitting around waiting for someone to tell you what to do and then leaving you to wonder if the relationship works. Exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is another killer documentary. It's called American Hollow. It's one of my favorites. So this documentary is, I don't know, definitely top five most bizarre things I've ever seen in my life, but incredible. It was directed by Rory Kennedy in 1999.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And basically, if I remember the story correctly, she was down in Kentucky doing another documentary and they got lost in one of those hollows. You know what a hollow is, Jordan? A hollow is like those little valleys in Appalachia where you kind of like curve through the mountains. Okay. And there are these little tiny, like sometimes they're not even towns.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
They're just random dispersed houses that are down in the valleys. They call them hollers. And she got lost. And there was a woman on the side of the road who helped her find her way or something and Starts talking to this woman. She's like, who are you? Do you live around here? And she's like, yeah, I just live around the corner there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And 67 of my nearest relatives, we all live within walking distance of one another. And Rory Kennedy started talking to her and I think might've followed her back to her house or something. And she just stumbled across Rory. like one of these old school self-described true hillbillies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And she ended up spending a year, she embedded with her team for a year in their houses in this little community, this pivotal and incredible year in this family's life. And she shot this documentary. It is amazing. It's a time capsule of a place in time that is just riveting. So if you like weird documentaries, if you like crazy characters and strange worlds, you're going to love this one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Just like all of the things I usually recommend, it'll give you the full experience. You're going to laugh, you're going to cry, you're going to go, holy shit, it's also beautifully shot. I love the way she captures these moments in this family. She kind of puts you in the center of the action and just films from this beautiful angle that just makes you feel like you're part of this family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Literally.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
That is for a second I thought you were playing the beginning of it or something. That music is exactly right. It's funny because music figures into the story a lot. So many people in Appalachia are incredible musicians. Everybody knows how to play the fiddle, the guitar. They're just like all born musicians. They're amazing. But
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My mother's company was so healthy it could have run itself, but my sister threatened to cut off her daughter from my mother's wealth if she didn't step in and run the business. My niece had no interest in that and has no skills, but she had no choice. So what do my sister and my niece do? They start living out of the company. They take huge salaries and take money from operations.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Watch this documentary, let me know what you think, and hit me up on Instagram and tell me. I watch it every few years, and every time I see something new in it, we're going to link to it in the show notes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
That's such a gross visual, dude. It is so gross. And also that aisle of CVS just populated my mind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Hey guys, I'm a 51 year old man, a special education teacher with almost 20 years of experience, and I love the richness that traveling brings to my life. My adventures range from going to a rodeo for the first time to living overseas during my Peace Corps experience in Morocco. New experiences, people, and places anywhere are exciting and rewarding to me. I feel you, my dude.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, definitely matches my wardrobe and all my life choices up till now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You're just hanging out at the rodeo in your vermilion blouse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
What an image. And my Panama hat. So he goes on. I've been divorced for almost 11 years and have two kids. My 19-year-old daughter is at college on a full ride with athletic and academic scholarships. and my 16-year-old son is a junior in high school and on a similar track with his love of soccer. I couldn't ask for a better daughter and son.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I've also been sober for 11 years through a 12-step program. You would not be surprised to learn that there have been some difficult times in my life. Along with my drinking addiction, I have a suicide attempt and have battled serious manic-depressive bouts. Back when I was struggling, a close friend told me that it would be better to be a good father far away than a bad father close by my kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So I returned home to Michigan. While there, I had open-heart surgery and a stroke from an infection that almost killed me. During my time in the intensive care unit, I told myself that major changes needed to happen in my life. So I moved back to central New York to be closer to my children. I got serious and started a long road back. I developed discipline and grit in my life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The physical rehab was the easiest part. I ran in college and years later completed the New York City Marathon. I drew on those experiences to get to a place physically that my doctors are impressed with. But my mental health was more of a challenge. The chaos that I created with my drinking and reckless lifestyle destroyed important relationships. But my mental health was more of a challenge.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The chaos that I created with my drinking and reckless lifestyle destroyed important relationships. I was isolated from my family, friends, and children. I said many times that I was sorry that I would never do that again. I lied. I cheated. My word meant nothing. The only way that I was able to fix things was through what calls living amends.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Since my word meant nothing, I could only do the right thing at the right time to the best of my ability. I had to take responsibility for my actions and own them. No excuses. Over time, people noticed the better choices I was making. For example, I decided to never tell my children that I would do something or be somewhere and not follow through on it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I should have been consulted about all of this, but my sister wanted me to have nothing to do with the business. I will admit that as the baby of the family, I trusted my family. I trusted them to behave the way my mother taught us to behave, with integrity and fairness. I also thought that if I asked questions of the management team, they would tell me what was happening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I can proudly say that I fulfilled that promise to the best of my ability. Over years of consistent work, this has brought almost all of the important people back into my life. And through therapy, consistent hard work, and medical professionals, I have a life that I never imagined I would experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It's really interesting, Jordan. We talk a lot on Feedback Friday about how to frame things and what to say, how to make your words count. And obviously words do matter. They're important. But he's right. Words only go so far. What really matters is what you do. Because, yeah, anyone can say anything, even if they mean well, even if they believe they mean what they say.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
If you don't actually behave in a way that reflects what you say. Yeah, they're just words. So I love this living amends concept. Very powerful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I now find myself wanting to live overseas again. I've researched how to both teach and live overseas, and I'm ready to do this soon. But my son is graduating next year and will be off to college, and that's brought up a lot of feelings for me. I have a special relationship with him. He's helped me more than I've helped him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My daughter and I are actually part of each other's life and have a growing relationship that is heading more and more in the right direction. My kids know that I want to live overseas, but if I move away, how will they process that? Will they think I'm leaving them again? If I stay, will they feel like I'm intruding in their lives? Will they think I'm expecting something more from them?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Can I still be an important part of their lives if I move away? Or do I feel guilty about leaving them earlier? And is that clouding my perspective? Sign trying to embark without tearing my family apart.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But my niece and sister rule by fear and intimidation. This was also the relationship I had with my sister. She threatened me constantly, and she is a scary bitch, let me tell you. Our employees were at the mercy of my niece and her volatile outbursts and were threatened with being fired if they talked to me at all.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Or maybe it'll be a mixed bag or it'll be a process for them to arrive at the right decision, right? Like it might be several conversations where you guys need to talk out your many feelings about all of this before you decide. Your kids might have some questions for you about why traveling is so important for you. They might want to explore how they would actually feel if you moved away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And you might also have some questions, you know, about what they really need from you or whether you guys are at a place and an age now where leaving would not be felt as an abandonment, but maybe as a transition that you guys can manage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You know that aisle where they have the weird third tier brands of those strange shampoos for various ailments? Makes me anxious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
They might basically be ready to let you go for a period of time, but they might also have some things that they want to say to you or know about you before they can get on board with it, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Like they might need some reassurance, for example, that you're going to keep taking care of yourself while you're abroad and that you're going to come back from this trip and you're still going to be a steady presence in their lives.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and that's something to think about maybe even before you talk to your kids. Do you have the support? Do you have the clarity? Do you have the structure in your life to go on this trip in a responsible way? And if the answer is kind of, but not totally, then maybe you have some work to do before you really start exploring this with them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So until last year, I had no idea of the degree and scale of lying, cheating, and stealing that had been taking place since my mother's death. My niece has ruined the company's reputation, placed it in the most precarious financial situation you can imagine, and continues to take advantage of everyone and everything she can.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But if the answer is, but not really, then you might have some work to do before you really start exploring this in a real way with your kids. But if the answer is, yeah, absolutely. I'm rock solid. I have my relationships. I have my rituals. I have my programs and I'm good to go and I'm not worried. And I'm happy to share that then.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
That would be a great thing to bring into this conversation with your kids, because I think they might need to hear some of that to feel secure enough to then get excited about your dream. There is one other thing we got to talk about here, which is the mood component. You said that you've battled serious manic depressive bouts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm guessing, or I'm hoping at least, that you've addressed that in therapy. You did mention that with the help of doctors, you've gotten your life together. So maybe you're on medication now. One way or another, my hope is that you are on top of this. Candidly, that is one part of your story that gives me pause, or it's just something that I would really sit with.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Whether this dream of traveling is real and well thought out, or whether there's a little bit of a manic quality to it. I know that this idea has been brewing for a while. It's not like you just decided that travel is what you're going to do and it's going to fix everything. You've been doing this since you were a young man, so it's not just a whim.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But since we don't know you super well, I just want to flag that so you can check it out. Make sure that you're feeling clear and stable as you come up with this plan. And you're not just like super hyped because you're potentially in a manic phase right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
For example, her latest request is that she wants to get her brand new Escalade wrapped to the tune of $5,000 because she doesn't like the color and is trying to run it through the company. She already runs her monthly $2,200 lease payment through the company.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
In the meantime, she told the operations VP that she thinks they should cut the employee's benefits packages and 401k because the cash flow is so bad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Eventually, the management team had enough. They started talking to me. Boy, did they talk. And now the house of cards is about to fall. There's been a clear breach of fiduciary responsibility, and it's been documented. I'm now in a position to lead the faithful and restore my mother's company to its former reputation. In the next few months, there will basically be a coup.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Sadly, this is not something that can happen in a reasonable manner. My niece has demonstrated time and time again that she is unstable, plus she lies about everything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I have an amazing management team led by the VP of operations who basically runs the place and has worked for my mother for 22 years, the comptroller, another veteran who has every dollar accounted for on spreadsheets that would make your eyes cross, and my attorney, who's ready to help us put this plan in motion legally. But I don't want to storm the castle without having a plan in place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm all about the art of war we can't miss.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I'm thinking of going into her office with a show of force by the critical players, me, my attorney, the comptroller, and perhaps our current CPA, demonstrating some of the most important elements of the breach in an undeniable document. I know she will lose her shit, but the team's concern is that we're going to swing and miss.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My niece is slippery and seems to weasel her way out of difficult situations. They've seen this happen repeatedly. I think this fear reflects their more personal concerns that somehow she won't leave, they'll lose their jobs, and the company will fail. They've worked so hard to hold this company together, and I don't want to disappoint them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
How can I successfully execute this plan to remove my niece from the business? Signed, assembling a crew, having accrued evidence up the wazoo, to pull off this coup after this breach of Fidudu.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You're going to call me out for that? This is a serious podcast. This is a legal question. I think all of that went out the window when we started with the Kalulu with the Delulu.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
She's got a susu for the doodoo.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I don't have this class of issues at the moment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You almost wanted to say fidu.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It just reminds me of how Baylen Dupree on that show that we watched together. That's right. The Tourette's girl, how she has to tell people you're bald because she sees a bald guy. Just in the middle of nowhere, he's like, you're bald.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1158: Can Coup Against Kin Save Family Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Oh man, I'm hoping that these people are not going to put up a fight. They don't sound like great executives. They're going to want to cling to the company, but they might be so spooked by the prospect of legal action that they might just want to step away. That would be the best case scenario, I think. But yeah, all good advice. Patty Eberwine's spitting facts today. I've known Patty for years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, so the question is, Delulu in service of what? You know, what function is this fantasy slash grandiosity serving? Because I'm with you. It might be a powerful way for her to maybe compensate for the childhood she had, to sustain ego strength, to enjoy a life she'll probably never get to live, if only in her mind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I don't know, but I'm really enjoying this stand-up rant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But it might also be a little worrisome if she's not fully in contact with reality.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah, of course. You know, you need those tickets, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Five stars.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Which is why I really feel for him. It's a hard conversation to be in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Oh man, I'm going to be saying that in yoga later. I already know it. I'm just going to start cracking up in a pose. Warrior three. Is that a real pose? That doesn't sound real. That's a real pose. Where three how many warriors are there? How high does it go? I think it's three or four Maybe maybe there's a fourth, but you never do it. You never do it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm gonna take you back to class I'm gonna get a colula with my de lula.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So it might be helpful to consider what supporting your wife actually means to you, or what you want it to mean. What kind of support do you want to offer? Does it mean validating her fantasies and potentially feeding a delusion and potentially helping keep her stuck in this fantasy world? Or... Could it look like saying something along the lines of, honey, I love that you have these big dreams.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I know how much they mean to you. I want to help you go after whatever excites you. But I also know that if you really want these things, you're going to have to pick one or two of them and you're going to have to start chipping away at them or they're just going to be ideas in your head. That's true for me. That's true for you. It's true for anyone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And what I'm seeing is that it's hard for you to translate your dreams into action and not just focus on the destination. So when you're ready, I'm here to help you do that. And I will be your champion. And if these are just fun fantasies, that's OK, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But maybe you can help me understand if these dreams are things you actually want to pursue, because that would help me know how to show up for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And the subtext is, I need you to step into a shared reality so I can best support you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So he does need to navigate these conversations carefully, with a lot of patience, a lot of love, a lot of understanding, because this subject is obviously loaded for her. She might hear this as, I don't believe in you, or these just aren't realistic options for you, which is not necessarily what he would be saying, but that might be very painful for her, given her life experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
not his fault, just painful.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm also still thinking about this potentially grandiose quality because wherever there's grandiosity, there's very tender territory underneath. The grandiosity might be part of a kind of narcissism that I imagine developed in order to survive this very painful childhood and
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
maintain self-esteem into adulthood, it might also be a defense against having to be in a real relationship with her goals by actually taking steps to achieve them. And as we all know, when you do that, you have to be willing to feel all of the feelings that come with actually confronting the things you want to achieve and how hard that is and all of that, which can be very wounding.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And I do strongly suspect that's playing a role here. Or who knows, man, the grandiosity might even be a symptom of a mood disorder or something like that. He said she's depressed. He didn't say she's bipolar, but grandiosity can be a symptom of mania. And even if she's not bipolar, it does sound like there is kind of like a generically manic quality to some of these aspirations of hers.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So by having this chat with her, you're wading into potentially tricky waters. It can be a little bit alarming, a little destabilizing, sometimes angering to a grandiose person to be told, especially by their partner, hey, you need to come back to earth here because I don't know what to make of this. To you, that's just common sense. It's a step toward actually achieving her goals, which it is.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But to her, it might be like ripping away a very precious protection. And it might bring up some anger, some shame, some sadness for her. So all that to say, I would move slowly and keep validating your wife's potential. her right to dream, which she does have a right to do. Tell her that you're still on her team, but be prepared for any number of responses and then hang in there with her.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
This will be a process for the two of you. It might be a little bumpy, but my feeling is this is probably a crucial conversation for you to have.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But it is informed by her disability, and that's what makes it extra complicated.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
okay what's next hey jordan and gabe my fiance and i are getting married in a few months she's 27 and i'm 30 and we're super excited to start building a life together we're both first generation immigrants both sets of parents were born and raised in northern india and in many indian cultures a wedding means everything i really never heard that weird this is news to us usually a pretty modest affair at the indian wedding no pretty low-key
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Close friends and family, in and out, no big fuss. Definitely no grooms riding in on wildlife, elephants or whatever, for five days of festivities or anything like that. So he goes on, I've always seen Indian weddings as a wonderful opportunity for people to get together and share happiness, tradition, culture, and love. But my thoughts have changed drastically.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Our parents have turned what was supposed to be a joyous occasion into a question of optics. Guest list count, making sure people we haven't seen in years are invited, what will so-and-so think if we do an outdoor versus an indoor event, the list goes on. We always wanted to have a smaller, intimate wedding and reception, not the usual week-long 500-person ordeal.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Fortunately, most of that has calmed down now. We've come to an agreement on most things, and our parents are starting to support us in ways that we can appreciate.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
yeah okay so that's not the conundrum that's not the problem but isn't every single wedding a question of optics basically this is not just you my friend but continue but now there's a new problem my 26 year old first cousin bringing her 32 year old boyfriend of two years to the wedding her parents and our grandparents have always disapproved of their relationship because he's not of the same ethnic background
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Dating a white guy, got it. They've also made comments about his education and future plans, or lack thereof. Dating a white guy with no job, okay. Unfortunately, the rest of the family has been resistant to meet him. In my view, it's up to my cousin to determine who's best for her, and I'll support her if he makes her happy. So I made the decision to extend an invite to her boyfriend.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
This has caused a lot of drama. My grandparents are calling me asking me why I invited him. Her dad reached out and we had a civil but long conversation as well. They don't want him to come and want me to influence my cousin. They're being manipulative, saying that if he comes, they'll be mad the whole time. That it'll be awkward. They don't want to be seated next to them. Stuff like that.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
They even alluded to leaving early. But my cousin says she wouldn't be comfortable going to the wedding without him. So this is just turning into a real mess.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Okay. I don't want to be involved with this at all. Don't blame ya. I've started to distance myself from the situation and set boundaries. Bravo. But we're having some anxiety thinking about what will happen at the wedding.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I would hate for my side of the family to cause a stink and put a dark cloud over the whole event, and my fiancé would be disappointed for anyone to leave early to avoid the situation. What should we do? How can we mentally prepare for this? Should we speak to everyone prior to the event and remind them how we just want everyone to be happy, supportive, and enjoy the occasion?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
How can we turn a blind eye if we notice any drama during the event? Signed, trying to be a good son and not shun my family for burdening us a ton when they're ruining our fun over this hard one plus one.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Along with the wife from the previous question. They're both enrolling in Harvard this fall. Done.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Totally agree. I also think this might be a really important decision for them to make together to communicate to the family. They come from a family, to your point a moment ago, and a culture that can be a little intense. Everyone's up in everyone's business, optics are clearly very important, families want to have a say in whom people date and whom they bring to family events.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Let's not forget that the whole preamble to this letter was that his parents turned this joyful process into a nightmare by pushing him to have the wedding that they wanted. So his family is putting their interests above his in a number of ways. So by taking a stand on your cousin and her boyfriend, you will also be setting a precedent for how these big decisions are going to go in the future.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You're basically saying, look guys, we're happy to hear you out. We acknowledge your opinion. It's fair, but we're not going to fold or bend over backwards to accommodate you. We're adults.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Isn't it crazy? That place is a profit machine. Yeah. Capitalism extravaganza. Everywhere you turn, there's another way for them to extract money from you. You have to kind of marvel at it, but it's disturbing.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We're totally chill. Yeah, you got to pick your partner. We get to pick every other aspect of your life.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I've hid my porn consumption from her for pretty much the entirety of the marriage and lied about it constantly. Then, five months ago, she found out that I had been lying and living a double life and legally separated from me. She moved out of the house and while she was gone, I changed. I stopped watching porn and started working on a way out of this addiction.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Three months later, she decided to move back in because she liked the trajectory I was on. She had one condition, that I never lie to her again. We then realized I was in a lot of debt because of my business, and I said that I would get a job.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I guess that's possible. I don't know if I totally buy that, though.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Okay, it's probably not that you realized you were in a lot of debt. You were in a lot of debt and it sounds like you didn't tell her.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And or self-deception, for sure. We then realized I was in a lot of debt because of my business, and I said that I would get a job. The interview process for the job I wanted is still taking a while, so in the meantime, I just decided to keep the business going. Since the beginning of this year, about two months ago, I've acted out six times. But I never lied about it. I told her about each time.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Acted out, I assume he means watched porn.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I hope he would have just told us if that were the case. But yes, it does sound like porn is the issue here because he kept it a secret in the past. So he goes on. We had a huge fight about the last time. We were sleeping in separate rooms and not talking to each other. Then I came home after two days of that and she was gone. She said that she's moving to California with her brother indefinitely.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But she doesn't want to file for divorce. She wants me to. But I don't want to file either. I've made it clear that I'm sorry and that I want to change, but she's not having any of it. I still love her, and I don't think I'll ever find anyone else like her. But I don't know if I'm doing her a disservice by not divorcing her. Should I try to get her back? Or should I just give up?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Signed, debating whether to give chase after continuing to face that tricky place in cyberspace.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Wow, I have never heard that before. What a Midwest thing that I just completely missed out on.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
A date with Miss Michigan.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And if you're using like a fleshlight, is it a date with Miss California? It depends on the shape of the fleshlight. They only come in one shape, dude. What are you talking about? Yeah, I don't know. That's true. Is that what California looks like? I don't know. There's probably... I was trying to think of a state, but that seems like the most obvious one for that. Yeah, I don't know. Bahrain?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Like a date with a pocket rocket. It's like Miss Yemen.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That's wild.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Totally. And I wonder if that's one more form of self-deception, a way to avoid the real issue here. He's fixating on his wife, but completely ignoring these issues that are largely his to sort out.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Hey, Gordon and Jabe. I'm an esthetician in my early 20s, and I work at a small family-owned spa. The past year has been rough. Basically, we offer a luxury service, and with the economy the way it is, it's one of the first things people cut out of their budget. When I bought my first home in 2022, I was doing well.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I was putting money into savings and working on my little fixer-upper. Fast forward to 2024, and I've been making less and less as a commission-based employee. $20,000 less, to be exact. On top of the state of the economy, the way the beauty industry is evolving has hurt professionals and small businesses. And I don't know where to go from here.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
One of the best ways for us to gain clientele is through social media. These days, it's hard to gain any visibility online without being a full-time content creator on top of my daytime job. Of course, there are some wonderful professionals and great resources out there, but even they have become overshadowed.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
An easier, cheaper service or one you can do at home is much more appealing to potential clients. I could go on about the unrealistic expectations clients have based on what they see online, but you get the idea. Self-promotion has become an increasingly time-consuming headache with very little payoff, and I've basically given up.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm also concerned about the rise of unlicensed hustlers on social media. In response, our state licensing board has been discussing limiting our scope of practice more and more. This has created job insecurity and led to spa closures as practitioners have been pushed towards medical settings and training. It also limits the higher priced services we can confidently offer as a day spa.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
On top of that, as clients get under the table services with harmful results, It lessens their trust in practitioners as a whole. All of this to say, I'm very concerned about my future, even though our management is great and goes out of their way to gain clientele and our spa has an amazing reputation.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I left college to pursue aesthetics because I was enthusiastic about it and it felt right, but I'm growing to resent the beauty industry. I'm stuck ruminating on how my life would be better if I hadn't made such a life altering career change. My fiance and I have bills to pay, and I was the primary breadwinner for years.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
She was laid off recently and is trying desperately to get one of her many opportunities to commit, but they just keep stringing her along. We both often work our side hustles late into the night to put a little extra money in our pockets, and I've been applying for second jobs with zero luck. We now live paycheck to paycheck, and even that is barely scraping by.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm robbing Peter to pay Paul just to keep the lights on.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Wow, I didn't realize that things were that scrappy when you were in your early days.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I've seen people do incredibly well in my field, so I know it's possible. I've been trying my best to work hard and not get beaten down. I come in early and stay late. I come in on days off. I even come in on days I don't have clients and don't get paid. I don't always mind, but more and more, on an hourly basis, I'm making less than minimum wage. I'm not a content creator.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm not a hashtag girl boss. I wasn't built to hustle. I'm not looking for a badass career or trying to get rich. I just want a stable job. but I'm having trouble getting clear on what I want, especially given my specialized skillset. I have many interests, but I keep finding myself scrolling through job websites without any direction. What in the world should I do?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Find another trade or go back to school? Start flipping burgers to make ends meet? Should I cut my losses and sell my home I've come to love so much? Signed, trying to inject some new ideas into the face of my career.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So much of it.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
So yeah, they're creating an experience, so it's really beautiful, but it's unsettling. Side note, I just looked it up. In 2024, Disney generated... $34.2 billion with its parks and experiences division. Oh, I was going to say, but that includes movies. No way, no. Actually, total revenue was $91 billion, and that was up 3% from the year before. That is just nuts.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, really good advice, Jordan. And just for this practical question about whether to sell your home, I also can't straight up tell you what to do there. What I would say is don't sell your home unless it's putting you into dire financial straits or you're seriously at risk of losing it or something like that.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Or if selling the house and then renting a smaller place would give you significantly more time and energy to devote to these new career ideas.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If you decide, for example, that your calling is becoming a teacher and you need to get a master's in education to do the kind of work you want to do and the only way to pay for school is to sell the house, then you would be doing it for a very solid reason. It would be funding your next chapter. But I wouldn't just panic sell. I know that living paycheck to paycheck is terrifying.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
That is a very real thing. but you also want to protect this beautiful investment of yours. And the reality is after moving and fees and just like the headache of selling a house, I guess I would want to know if renting a place or buying a smaller place would significantly change things for you. So maybe decouple owning a house from the bigger career questions, at least for now.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
My only other thought for you, I would be curious to know how other estheticians are dealing with these challenges. You said that you've seen people do incredibly well in your field, so it is possible, which is great news.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I would reach out to those people and really anyone in your industry and just ask them like, hey, I'm seeing this in the economics and I'm noticing these trends and it's become really hard and I'm making $20,000 less every year. How are you surviving? How are you making your commissions? And just start to crowdsource ideas for how to respond to all of this. Somebody has the answer.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
You're welcome. Who knew that there was any such thing as towel game? I didn't even think about that.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
My husband and I have been together for eight years and married for two. We're not European, but we live in Central Europe where we met. We always assumed we would have kids eventually, but with no set timeline. To ease the pressure, we froze embryos. Now at 41, we're struggling to make the leap.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
On a recent visit to my home country, I was exposed to parents who admitted that they regretted having kids for the wrong reasons, while others embraced parenting without hesitation. We don't share that deep, unquestioning desire.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We envision offering our kids amazing opportunities, multilingualism, travel, diverse skills, but we're apprehensive about the daily realities, total dependence, stress, and the irreversible lifestyle change. While my husband doesn't really express a desire to have kids anytime soon, he does fear regretting not having them. Meanwhile, I fear resenting them.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Right. The reasons to have kids and how to factor in the future. So she goes on. We also lack a support network. Our families live on opposite sides of the world and we have no strong local ties, but we have decided to live here from now on. I also worry about my patients, stamina and the challenges of pregnancy and childbirth. We're very busy people and we don't know how busy people do it.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
We also don't want to outsource our parenting a la British aristocracy. Despite these doubts, we're not fully against it. We're just stuck. How can we untangle this decision? What factors should we prioritize? Is strong desire the key? Or do people grow into parenthood? Signed, help me end this confusing stalemate. Do we embrace our fate and procreate?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Dodge the freight because life's pretty great? Or simply wait until it's just too late?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's not about their kids together. I
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
if you can get to that place then this isn't necessarily the end of the story for you it's more like it's an invitation into a process around this complicated feeling yeah well said this one gives me some pause as well i'm with you she's not a bad person for feeling that way but it does bring up this huge question which is is it really fair to resent people you choose to bring into this world and i know that she's concerned about that and i also appreciate that
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But if you think that you will resent them no matter what, is that a signal that you maybe shouldn't have kids?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I think your question, what specifically would make her resentful is a really good one because the obvious answer is clearly my kids and how much time and energy and money they're going to require and the hit to my lifestyle and the stress and all of that. But there's so much more to that. First of all, time, energy, money, those things can feel very different depending on your lens on them.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
If you think of them like a cost, that's one thing. If you feel them more as an investment, then it's a totally different experience. But also I hear that what a lot of parents actually resent is is a loss of identity. It's like the loss of the person they were before they were parents and also the loss of freedom and the loss of total independence, which is another very valid concern.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
It's an important variable to consider. So if that's what's underneath this resentment, that is also something to explore because I think it's pretty likely that you will experience a big shift in identity. That's part of the deal when you become a parent, right? But how you make room for these different parts of yourself,
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
mother, as well as partner and employee and friend and human being, which also goes back to the thing Jordan said about how you and your husband are supporting each other, that will probably make such a huge difference in how you feel about your kids.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
In other words, if what you're afraid of resenting is a loss of self, you might want to take some time to think about what aspects of yourself you really want to protect. and how you can stay connected to those parts of you as you become a parent. And I'm not saying it's going to be easy.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I hear that the first year or two are pretty hard and there's kind of like an appropriate loss of self to some degree in all parenthood, especially motherhood. But I do wonder if there's a way to go into this decision with more conscious awareness of the things that would actually hurt to lose and the ways that you might be able to take care of yourself along the way in order to not lose them.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And if that might reduce or even resolve any resentment that you're afraid of feeling.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm also very curious to know what those parents you hung out with can teach you. It's kind of like the esthetician who wrote in and said, there are people in my industry who are making this work. So I know it's possible. I mean, there's great research to be done. So these people you talk to who are over the moon about being parents,
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
What variables do you see in their lives that might give you a clue as to what it takes to feel secure in this decision? And same thing for the ones who regret having kids. What are they dealing with or what are they not dealing with? Did they see this feeling coming or was it a total surprise to them?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's impressive. That's where Disney really shines. They do. And you just see how like their company culture seeps into every little detail.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I would dig in deeper there, too, and talk with your husband about all of this and just basically become students of the other parents in your life. That's just like great recon for you. Make it safe for them to be very honest with you. Did you guys feel this way before? Or was this just creep up on you after you had kids and you realized it was a huge mistake?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Or was there an inner voice telling you that maybe you weren't called to parenthood and you just didn't listen to it? And now here you are, you know, just know that you will never ultimately know what parenthood is going to be like for you. until you actually do it. And that's the bind that you're in, right?
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You can't know fully in advance, but I do think that having parents in your life is a huge benefit. And if you talk to them, it might give you a lot more data about all of this.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
My wife had a long abusive childhood that included being told she couldn't do things. Lots of things, big things, the things dreams are made of simply because she's disabled. She was often rejected out of hand and not told why, or never given an opportunity to even try. It's a sad childhood. And now as an adult, she suffers from depression. which is part of the reason that she's in therapy.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But my wife still dreams big and she has a lot of dreams. She wants to get into medicine, politics, art, music, and online entertainment. These dreams aren't just all over the place. They're also grand. She wants to not just be involved in medicine, but the chief of medicine, not just in politics, but making big sweeping changes to improve accessibility.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
not just an artist, but the famous artist, or a great musician who inspires awe. She gives me these hypotheticals that are so far out there, like how cool would it be if we went to insert big stage production here, and I left the dinner table and then turned up on stage and it surprised everyone. I almost can't grasp it. My wife has a grand destination in mind, but
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I have trouble getting her to see the journey, getting her to see each step. Sure, all of this would be wonderful and amazing, but how would you do any of it? When she tells me about these dreams, I listen and ask questions, but she's quick to shut down if I probe too much into how would you do that or what does it take to get there?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I'm also the sole financial provider in our relationship right now, so sometimes my response to her dreams and visions is, where would we get the money for that when we can't even afford to fix our car? How do I support my wife's dreams on an emotional level? How do I support her? How do I help her pick one or two of these goals and get started on the journey to achieve these dreams?
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
How do I show her that the journey has to come before the destination? Signed, helping my wife gain ground when she's always been put down.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
And never told why. That part made me the saddest somehow.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
But what he's describing, it's more than just a healthy defiance.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
Yeah. It sounds more like fantasy than genuine aspiration.
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1130: Giving Wife a Hand When Dreams Are Too Grand | Feedback Friday
I can't believe you just said that, right? Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm not arguing, I'm just saying the airline is trying to give you, it's for your hands.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Hi Jordan and Gabe. I want to preface my email by saying that my following statements take nothing away from the fires in LA. Everyone deserves to have a home where they feel safe. Period. I'm from Chico in Northern California. It's been triggering to hear all the attention the fires in LA are getting when we've had recent fires more deadly and larger in size very recently. Nehmt euren Wunsch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Der Campfire, über 153.000 Hektar. Der Dixie-Fall, 963.000 Hektar. Der Park-Fall, fast 430.000 Hektar. Ich weiß, es ist kein Konzert. Aber hätte eine Celebrität hier gelebt, die ihren verlassenen Zuhause ticktocken und die Sichtbarkeit dafür bekommen würde, wären wir auf den Radaren der Menschen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber der Fakt ist, dass die Menschen, die unsere Gemeinschaft besitzen, meistens Low- und Middle-Income-Volk, broader society has forgotten. During the campfire in 2019, for example, on my very short street, two families are still living out of RVs because they lost everything and have no way to financially redeem themselves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
It continues to hit home because two more family members of mine lost their homes in the park fire months ago. I listened to your 25-minute intro the other week and the Los Angeles fires were compared to September 11th. I suppose it hits me, because I'm waiting for someone to say, damn, this has been NorCal's story for the past few years. We should put the spotlight on them. But it doesn't happen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
All of this to say, it's shitty all around. I thought something like this would bring the state together. And maybe it has. Our humble, still very much recovering community has worked to send resources to those in LA. We are a resilient community, and I think the gesture speaks to our hearts, despite humble beginnings. I appreciate you reading this. Grief deserves a witness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Signed, still smoldering from these invisible fires.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I'm with you, I take her point. It's funny, just about half an hour before we started recording today, there's this news that a huge wildfire has broken out in Castaic, which is, yeah, I think it's like an hour northeast of Los Angeles, I believe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
In the past I would see that and feel really terrible and probably spend a few minutes looking at some photos and just thinking about the people. But because of this letter, it's making me really empathize with them in a new way. So I'm also glad that she wrote in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I was getting something similar on that episode, the one we did a few weeks ago when I said that I've been fortunate to not lose something to a disaster like this and that these fires are making me sit up and pay attention in a new way. So recognizing what you've been through here, being supportive when this stuff happens to other communities, I consider this segment part of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber was mich auch interessiert, ist, dass du wirklich darüber sprichst, welche Geschichten wir beachten müssen und warum und wie. Und ja, ich stimme dazu. Es ist myopisch und vielleicht unfair, nicht Zeit zu sparen, Menschen wie dich und deine Nachbarn zu erinnern, wenn du schmerzt. Durch diese Logik jedoch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es ist so myopisch und unfair, dass man nicht Zeit verbraucht, Leute in Florida zu erinnern, wenn sie einen Kategorie-5-Hurricane haben. Oder die Leute in Spanien letztes Jahr, als Flüsse Valencia zerstört und Menschen getötet haben. Oder, Gott, ich meine, die Liste geht weiter und weiter. Es sind wie Hurricanes in Nepal und Chile und Japan, du weißt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Dude, letztes Jahr, 37 Millionen Äcker der Amazon wurden gebrannt. Also, wie wir einfach alles tun sollten, arbeiten gehen und unsere Leben weitergehen, wenn etwas wie das passiert, ist einfach außerhalb von mir. Nichts zu sagen über die Schmerzen der verschiedenen Kriege, die jetzt überall auf der Welt stattfinden. Es ist so viel Schmerz, weißt du? Also, alle dieser Tragödie sind schrecklich.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sie verdienen alle unsere Aufmerksamkeit. Sie verdienen alle unsere Liebe. Also, ich sage das nicht, um mit deinem Punkt zu argumentieren, weil es ein fairer ist. Aber ich denke, wir müssen auch erkennen, wie schwer es ist, den Schmerz der ganzen Welt zu beurteilen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Nicht nur, weil wir auf die Medien verlangen, uns bestimmte Dinge zu zeigen, worüber du einen guten Punkt machst, wie wir bestimmte Informationen erreichen, worauf wir Aufmerksamkeit geben, sondern auch, weil es einfach sehr überwältigend und sehr schwer ist, sich mit jeder einzelnen Tragödie zu identifizieren. Und welche nehmen Priorität? Ich bin mir nicht sicher, wie man das antwortet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Besonders, wenn sie in einem Ort passieren, das in vielen Fällen weit entfernt ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ja, ich höre das auch. Sie zeigt auch etwas Schlechtes und Unkomfortableses darüber, wie die Macht in diesen Tragedien funktioniert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Hi Jordan and Gabe. I'm a single father of a special needs child and for the past five years I've been trapped in Norway's legal system, navigating the aftermath of a relationship with a partner who has a violent schizoaffective disorder. My son was born with significant congenital challenges that require constant care.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Mit zwei anderen Kollegen gestalte ich ein langfristiges Projekt, das unsere einzige Verantwortung ist. Wir haben viel Freiheit und die Arbeit ist am meisten zu genießen. Das Problem ist einer unserer Superioren, Professor X. Don't make an X-Men joke. Don't do it. Although we're not directly his student assistants, we function more like an outsourced unit of the institute.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
We are officially under his project management and most of our instructions come from his research assistants. We do our best to avoid Professor X, but during faculty events we're invited along, which means we inevitably have to interact with him. At a recent legal fair, he behaved incredibly disrespectfully.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
He instructed one of the student assistants to carry his coat and bag everywhere like a servant. Oh man. Wow. That's some 19th century shit right there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
That's ridiculous though. That's what they do, among other things, yeah. Dann, nachdem er eine Präsentation geliefert hat, hat er uns Studenten-Assistenten für Feedback gefragt, speziell, ob wir seine Sprache überhaupt verstanden haben. Als ich anfing zu antworten, hat er sich abrupt mitten im Satz weggeworfen und hat mit jemand anderem gesprochen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich war da, schockiert und sprachlos, nicht mehr ablein, meine Gedanken zu beenden.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
In Gruppensettings klickt er oft auf den weichsten Link, typisch einen Studenten-Assistenten, und macht random, unabhängige Aufmerksamkeit. Wenn du für Klärung fragst, stürzt er dich nach außen unabhängig, um dich schuldig zu fühlen. Selbst grundlegende Gestalten, wie ihn in der Halle zu begrüßen, werden ignoriert, was mich nur zu meiner Frustration hinweist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Die Art, wie er seine Macht durch Gestalten und Ausführungen besitzt, ist schwierig zu beheben. Sein Verhalten ist so bizarr und manipulativ. Ich habe nie etwas wie das erlebt. Ich weiß oft nicht, wie ich mit ihm umgehen kann, vor allem, weil er mein Superiär ist und vielleicht sogar in meinen Studien als Beobachter endet. Oh, ja, das ist schwierig.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Seine Forschungsanbieter bewegen oft sein Verhalten mit Kommentaren wie, das ist nur so, wie er ist, oder du musst lernen, wie du damit umgehen musst. Er hat auch seine guten Momente. Es ist klar, dass er in hierarchischen Bereichen wächst und seine Position genießt. While he may be a brilliant legal scholar, he's a major disappointment as a person. Egotistical, narcissistic and erotic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
On top of this, he's endured severe trauma due to his mother's extreme behavior, including physical violence. Ich war mit meiner Tochter seit zwölf Jahren. Early on, I noticed signs of instability, unpredictable anger, irrational demands and cycles of dissatisfaction. She often claimed things would improve if we took the next step, moving in together, buying a house, having a child.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I feel like I have to submit to him to avoid conflict, but this submission comes at the cost of my authenticity. I'm tired of enduring his belittling remarks and disrespectful behavior. I wonder how I should handle someone so authoritarian and domineering. It also sometimes feels like the faculty operates under aristocratic rules.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Is it even possible to push back against this guy respectfully? How can I preserve my dignity while standing up for my values? Or should I start looking for a new job? Signed, roiling and recoiling, cause I'm toiling for a guy who's spoiling. This job that I should be rejoicing in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, he's an A-hole.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
You know, she said she's shocked and speechless and she's unable to finish her thoughts sometimes because his behavior is so bizarre. She doesn't even know how to deal with him. I've had to work with a couple of people like this. It's so weird. They make you feel like you're the weird one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Wow. That's a nice move, though.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I don't know. I kind of love that, though. You're not like picking a fight. You're just saying, hey, I'm still talking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
No big deal. You know, it's funny. I just remembered in my second year of college, I did this kind of like mini study abroad program in Washington, D.C. I went to UCLA, but they have a campus in D.C. And you go there for a quarter and you do an internship and you take a couple of classes and. Die Klasse, für die ich eingeladen habe, war politische Wortschrift.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und mein Lehrer, der Professor, war Colin Powell und Condoleezza Rice's Redakteur, wenn ich mich erinnere. Er war brillant. Er war wie ein totaler Gehirn. Er war ein wirklich guter Editor, ein wirklich guter Wortschriftlehrer. Er war wirklich hart. Es ist lustig. Jede Woche mussten wir eine neue Form von politischen Wörtern schreiben. Eine Woche mussten wir ein Op-Ed machen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Eine Woche mussten wir ein Dankeschön schreiben. Dieser Kerl hat mir gezeigt, wie man ein Dankeschön schreibt. Ich benutze ihn immer noch heute. Es ist ziemlich brillant. Und seine Technik war, dass er jede Woche einen Studenten in der Klasse wählt. Er nimmt das, was er geschrieben hat, stellt es auf einen alten Projektor und editiert es live vor allen. Das war so voller. Es war so beeindruckend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber es war ziemlich erstaunlich. Wir sind alle viel bessere Wörter geworden. The reason I bring him up is one of his classic moves was he would never say the last thing in a conversation when you were talking to him. So I would sometimes be chatting with him after class about something or whatever. And when we got to the end of the conversation, I would say, okay, cool. Like, thanks so much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
See you next week. And then he would just turn and walk away. He would never say bye or good night. I'd be like, oh, cool. Thanks for explaining that. I was just, you know, wondering what that thing was or whatever. Dead stare. See you Thursday or whatever. He would just spin on his heels and walk away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
One time we were talking and he got into the elevator while we were talking, which was already this weird power move. And then we were standing there as the doors were waiting to close and then I finished and the doors just closed. He didn't even say like, sorry, bye. It was just like this weird, very weird guy. Wow. I still don't know if he was manipulative.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Was he obsessed with power and that was like his way of feeling important or looking back, it's possible that he was on the spectrum and he just didn't read situations very well, but I don't know, I suspect maybe the former. Anyway, he was Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice's speechwriter, so he probably does understand power pretty well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
But I just remember being left feeling the exact way that our friend here is describing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I know, it's so cheesy, right? Don't say bye.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
It definitely works on you when you're 19 and you don't know how to handle people. If people did that to me today, I would just laugh and be like, that's not how you treat people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Young and hopeful, I believed her and hoped to build a stable life for us. Unfortunately, achieving any of these milestones only escalated her behavior. Gosh, that's unfortunate. After she became pregnant, she began threatening to harm the baby if I didn't comply with her demands.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich stimme dazu, leider. Wenn es darum geht, deine Dignität zu behalten, während du für deine Werte stehst, bin ich nicht sicher, dass du das wirklich tun kannst. Nicht komplett. Und das ist das Problem. Du weißt, du plakierst diesen Mann, den du von seinen Regeln spielst, und das könnte in der Tat der beste Schritt hier sein, aber es kommt an einen Kosten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und dieser Kosten, wie du gesagt hast, ist deine Authentizität. Look, there is a world where you say to this guy, hey, I've worked for you for a while now. I see you do this thing, that thing. I just want to share. Not my favorite vibe. I don't appreciate it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Can you stop being you for a moment? You could say, I don't know if it's really necessary. It's landing with people in a way that maybe you don't realize. And we work really hard for you. And I think most of us feel weirded out, hurt, scared, unappreciated, whatever you want to say. And I just want to share that with you respectfully.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Terrifying. But it is an option and I would applaud you if you did that. I just can't promise that it won't make him retaliate against you. And I definitely can't promise that it's for sure going to lead to meaningful change on his part.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Probably not, right? Yeah. This also depends on whether you really need to stay in his good graces. Maybe you don't. That's an interesting question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
At the time, I naively chalked it up to hormones, but after our son was born, her anger, irrationality and neglect turned into dangerous behavior, including leaving our infant unattended while she drank excessively. At one point, she became so violent toward me, I almost lost my life. Wow, this is horrifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und übrigens, um es nicht zu klar zu machen, als er auf seine Präsentation nach Feedback gefragt hat und du versucht hast, ihm eine Meinung zu geben, und dann hat er sich entfernt und angefangen, mit jemand anderem zu sprechen, glaube ich stark, dass er A nicht Feedback wollte, er wollte nur Begrüßung.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Die Art, wie er es dargestellt hat, war auch so, dass er gesagt hat, habt ihr das überhaupt verstanden? So furchtbar. B, du hast einen Teil von ihm getroffen, der sehr unabhängig war, sehr rau, und er hat nicht gefällt, wie das gefällt. Er wollte eigentlich keinen Art von Kritik im ersten Moment.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich denke, er hätte wahrscheinlich die Konversation beenden müssen und einen blöden Power-Move machen, um seine Kontrolle wiederherzustellen, um das, was ich als ein sehr fragiles Ego erwarte, zu verteidigen. Das ist das, was Narzissismus ist. Also, das war nicht um dich. Es ging um ihn. Es ging darum, wie gefährlich er wirklich ist, tief unten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Das ist etwas anderes, was ich versuchen würde, in Erinnerung zu nehmen, wenn du dich fühlst, als ob sein Verhalten irgendwie auf dich liegt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, we'll put that behind the dark paywall. That's right, the Dark Jordan paywall. You got to pay extra for the darkness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine. I tried to get her help through mental health services, but her illness often left her unable to follow through. Eventually, she was involuntarily hospitalized for psychosis when our son was two years old. I had tried leaving the relationship before, but was often manipulated into staying, sometimes with threats of harm to me or our son.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sobald sie ausgeliefert wurde, hat sie ihre Medikamente nicht mehr genommen und ihre mentale Gesundheit ist gestiegen. Sie glaubte, dass die meisten Leute, die sie bekommen wollten, auch mein Vater, waren. Sie hat sich komplett auf die Ärzte vertraut und hat noch nie einen gesehen. Seitdem hat mein Vater unschuldig gewesen, um sie wieder anzunehmen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Für die meiste Zeit ist sie stabil gewesen, aber mit dem unterliegenden Glauben, dass es eine größere Stärke in der Welt gegen sie gibt. Obwohl es ihr Leben nicht vollständig verwendet hat und sie konnte einen ziemlich normalen leben. Seit der Pandemie hat ihre mentale und physische Gesundheit geklopft. Die Verwirrung der Zeit hat ihr die Bedrohung der medizinischen Gemeinschaft geholfen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es wurde auch schwieriger für sie zu gehen. Selbst nach oben zu gehen, machte sie windig. Dann, recently, became things exponentially worse. Sie lebt viel von ihrem Zeitraum und wird nicht aus dem Haus gehen. Ich habe sie gestern Abend angerufen und sie hat gesagt, dass wir das letzte Mal, als wir für den Abend gekommen sind, ihre Parasiten getrunken haben, die ihr Gehirn essen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sie hat dann gesagt, dass wir ihr Leichen gedumpft haben und sie kann sie nicht wegnehmen. She hasn't made any threats to her life or to others, so it seems like a three-day hold is not an option. Are there any other options available to get her care, even if it's against her will? Signed, hoping you can expound on the options around helping a parent whose mind is unsound.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
When she was finally out of the house, I realized that I could no longer protect my son if we stayed together. With the support of her care team, I eventually ended the relationship. That unleashed a storm of threats and retaliation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ja, ich habe das auch nie gehört. Vielleicht nennen sie das, weil du von dem Job ausgeführt wirst, wenn du allein in deiner Wohnung lebst.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Was auch besonders anstrengend sein könnte bei deiner Mutter, wenn du intervenieren würdest, wäre, dass du ihr Paranoia verringern würdest, dass du in der Tat raus bist, um sie zu holen. Das kann wirklich schwer sein. Das könnte in der Kürze etwas Schlimmeres machen. Das könnte für dich und deinen Vater und die restlichen in der Familie sehr schwierige Gefühle bringen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
She refused to share updates about her mental health, convinced others that I was the unhealthy one, and got them to file false reports about me to Child Protective Services, which triggered stressful investigations. I was already overwhelmed caring for our son, and the extra burden became unbearable. The courts eventually awarded me primary custody, but she was granted 50% visitation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich möchte nur anerkennen, wie bewunderlich und zerstörerisch das sein kann, das zu sehen. There is another option available to you, which is to seek guardianship over your mother. Now, guardianship is another legal construct. It allows you to make decisions on behalf of a person who's basically unable to care for themselves or manage their affairs because...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sie sind schmerzhaft krank oder sie haben andere Bedingungen. Und es gibt mehrere Arten von Aufmerksamkeit. Du kannst Aufmerksamkeit einer Person haben, du kannst Aufmerksamkeit ihres Unternehmens haben, von beidem. Oder du kannst nur eine offene Aufmerksamkeit haben, die dir spezifische Kräfte als erlaubt wird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und wegen deiner Moms Staat, das könnte eine wirklich gute Option sein, aber das wäre auch ein Prozess. Deine Mutter müsste von einem Probate-Korps bezeichnet werden. Das bedeutet, dass sie nicht in der Lage ist, ihre persönlichen oder finanziellen Verhältnisse durch ihre mentale Krankheit zu gestalten. Wegen einer developmentalen Behinderung oder irgendeinem anderen Grund.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Du hättest wahrscheinlich eine formelle Beurteilung von einem medizinischen oder mentalen Gesundheitsprofessor, um die Beurteilung der Unkompetenz zu unterstützen. Du hättest eine Beurteilung für eine Beurteilung in der Probeekorte in deinem Momenteil. Du hättest eine Beratung anrufen müssen, um Beurteilung und Beurteilung zu beurteilen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Deine Mutter hätte das Recht, wieder einmal an der Beratung zu sein. Sie könnte die Beurteilung beurteilen. Sie hätte das Recht, ihre eigene legale Repräsentation zu haben.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und wenn der Gericht die Petition anbietet, dann bist du oder wer auch immer der Gericht ist, vielleicht dein Vater, vielleicht jemand anderes in der Familie, der Gericht muss mit bestimmten Beratungs- und Aufmerksamkeitsvermögen verabschieden, die appellieren, dass sie jährliche Beratungen an den Gericht anbieten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Auch die Beratung kann die Rechte einer Person bedeutend beschränken, also sind die Gerichte es oft als Lastresort anzusehen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
It's so interesting. Your mom is clearly experiencing serious mental illness. She obviously needs help and she might continue to get worse. But she might also fall in that strange gray area between people who are functional enough to live on their own and people who definitely need more serious care. This is kind of where Josh, my old neighbor, fell for a while and I saw firsthand how hard it was.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Für seine Familie und für den Landwirt und für das Staat, um zu wissen, was man mit diesem Mann zu tun hat. Also, Fälle wie deine Moms können wirklich schwierig sein. Wenn sie isst und atmet und hat einen Ruf über ihrem Kopf und sie ist nicht bedroht, sich oder jemand anderen zu verletzen, aber sie spricht mit den Parasiten in ihrem Gehirn oder so.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es könnte ein Fall sein, dass du sie alleine verletzt und einfach ein Auge auf sie behältst. Ich weiß, dass du intervenieren willst. Ich verstehe, warum du das tust. Ich wahrscheinlich auch. And for all I know, you should intervene before things get worse. But this might be a situation where you monitor your mom from afar and see if things do actually get worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
And kind of surrender to the reality that she might be a very sad and tragic presence in your life to some degree for a while. And that until her situation worsens, you might not be able to do all that much for her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I begged the courts to consider her mental illness and history of instability. But in my jurisdiction, a mother's right to see her child... oft die Gefühle für die Sicherheit ausweiten. So infuriierend. Während ihres Besuchstages begann mein Sohn, emotional und physisch zu regressieren. Er kam von Besuchstagen zurück mit schweren Angst, Träumen und behavioralen Problemen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ja, das ist eine gute Idee. Und es könnte auch ein guter Startpunkt für mehr ernsthafte Interventionen auf der Straße sein.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I'm also curious to know where your dad is in all of this. You said that he's been unwilling to readmit her, but I wonder if there might also be room for conversations with him somewhere in here. I mean, maybe you guys could talk about why he's so resistant to getting our help. See if he might be open to new options. Find a way to collaborate with him so that this doesn't all fall on you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I really do feel like this should be a team effort. This shouldn't just be you trying to figure this out on your own and getting nowhere.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I totally agree. And to that point, I would be remiss if I didn't say, I hope you're finding your own support to help process some of this stuff if possible, because... Jordan sagte, wenn du mit einem solchen Vater bist, habe ich sicher, dass es einen tiefen Effekt auf dich hat. Es könnte eine komplizierte Beziehung mit deinen eigenen Emotionen gebildet haben.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es könnte dich fühlen, als ob du immer noch andere Menschen kümmern musst, besonders deine Mutter, die nicht dein Job war. Und es könnte wirklich hart gewesen sein, vielleicht unmöglich für sie, für dich zu zeigen, wie du es als Kind wirklich brauchst. Also würde es sehr stark sein, all diese Therapien zu sprechen. For sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Plus a therapist could help advise you on your options with your mom, what she really needs right now. And also what not intervening, if that's what he decides to do, which is an option, what not intervening would bring up for him. Because not taking care of his mom, that might feel just as complicated to him as having to take care of her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ich lernte später von ihrer Familie, dass sie gegen ihn gewalttätig war während dieser Besuche. Und schlimmer. Ein besonders traumhafter Ereignis geschah, als sie ihren Sohn allein in einem kühlen Wohnzimmer während eines psychotischen Episodes verlassen. Er war furchtbar und schrie für Hilfe. Ein Auferstandener hörte seine Schreie und fand ihn in ihrer Wohnung.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Howdy, gents. This week, I unfortunately had to say goodbye to my dog, Moo Moo. Er benötigte seit dem Tag, an dem ich ihn von einer Rettung über drei Jahre herbeigetragen habe, bis zu dem Punkt, an dem mein Leben sich um die Sicherung, dass er immer gerettet wird, und die Medikamente vor mir und meinem anderen Hund, den ich seit über neun Jahren hatte.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Der Verlust war ziemlich plötzlich, und sein Sitzen mit ihm in seinen letzten Momenten hat mich zerstört. In diesen letzten Momenten war ich so neben mir, mit Schmerzen, die Prozesse, wie final die Euthanasie ist, All I could do was pet him and rub his cheeks and ears as they started the process. I'm crushed, have bawled my eyes out countless times and feel listless.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
My other dog is also feeling the loss pretty heavily. They were buds and I truly believe he senses Moo is gone forever. Oh mein Gott, das ist so traurig. Und ich erinnere mich, als ich meinen Hund in den Blick auf seinen Gesicht gesetzt habe. Oh, das ist nicht... Ja. Das wird für mich schwer. Das ist so traurig. The last two years have been incredibly tough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I've gone through two layoffs, a move, relationship changes, financial struggles, and now my super loving, goofy and smelly little pup is gone. I feel so close to the end of my path of life, like my footholds have eroded and the path in front of me has collapsed entirely. How do I pick these pieces up? Signed, feeling like I'm flagging and unsure what I should be grabbing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
now that my buddy's tail has stopped wagging. Jesus, Gabe. Way to destroy everyone with the sign-off. Jeez. That might have been a little much. I'm sorry. That was a little too intense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Die psychologische Schadenswerte von solchen Fällen sind schmerzhaft. Mein Sohn braucht jetzt konstant Aufmerksamkeit aufgrund seiner kongenitalen Herausforderungen. Es ist wie zwei Schritte nach vorne zu nehmen, nur zehn Schritte zurück zu gehen, jedes Mal, wenn sie in sein Leben zurückkommt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Her escalating psychosis eventually led to another involuntary hospitalization and visits were temporarily suspended. Without contact with his mother, my son began to improve. His anxiety lessened and his aggression started to subside. But after eight months in the hospital, she was released and immediately petitioned for custody again, claiming she was stable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Ja, gut gesagt, Jordan. Natürlich denke ich viel über Drake, als du all das sagst. Und ja, alles, was du gerade beschrieben hast, ist genau das, was ich mit ihm und mit all den Pets, die ich in den letzten Jahren verloren habe, gefunden habe. Und ich habe eine gute Menge von ihnen verloren. Ich höre auch von ihm, dass diese Verletzung ihn extra hart schießt.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es klingt, als wäre er seit zwei Jahren schwer. Und das hat diesen letzten Schmerz verändert.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
in eine, was klingt wie eine Krise, und ich verstehe das auch, alles, was du beschreibst, fühlst du dich enttäuscht, fühlst du dich unerwartet, fühlst du dich unerwartet, als ob du nicht weißt, wo du hinfährst, es gibt keinen Rutscher, du hast keine berühmten Marker, all diese sind klassische Symptome von Schmerzen, aber diese Gefühle können auch Symptome eines gewissen Ausbruchs sein, wie ein existenzieller Ausbruch, der vielleicht durch das Verlangen von Mumu verpräsentiert wurde, aber auch für eine Weile gebildet werden könnte.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
You have gone through a lot of loss recently, my friend. Two layoffs, a big move. Sounds like maybe a breakup or at least a shift in your relationship. There's financial stress. That's a lot to go through. And I'm sure all of that made your dogs even more important to you, right? They kept you company. They gave you an anchor. They were a source of comfort, of companionship.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
So this is all connected. But what I want to share with you is these crises, these breakdowns, Es kann furchtbar sein. Sie können auch sehr, sehr tief sein. Und ich denke, sie sind eigentlich essentiell. Was du gerade lernst, oder was du gerade lernst, ist, dass alles in unserer Leben, insbesondere uns, sterben muss. Literal oder metaphorisch. Beziehungen, Situationen, Lebensphasen, Identitäten.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Sie müssen zerbrechen, sie müssen sterben, um für uns zu wachsen. Und das ist Teil ihrer Arbeit, endlich wegzufallen. Und das ist wirklich schmerzhaft. Die Schmerzen sind Teil dessen, wie die Zerbrechung funktioniert. Und das ist okay. Obwohl ich sagen würde, je mehr du diese Krisen umbringst, desto mehr wirst du dich über sie interessiert und lässt dich in ihnen ein bisschen mehr herumschwimmen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Jordans Hühnchen-Paddeln-Metaphor ist ein wirklich guter, denke ich. desto weniger schmerzhaft sind sie. Aber du musst nicht zu viel mit dem Schmerz diskutieren, du kannst einfach das Teil sein. Ich weiß nicht, ob wir dir genau sagen können, wie du die Teile deines Lebens ausprobierst. Es ist möglich, dass einige dieser Teile nicht ausprobiert werden können.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Vielleicht sollten einige davon nicht ausprobiert werden. Und das ist ein bisschen eine furchtbare Meinung. Es ist auch ein bisschen interessant. Weißt du, vielleicht ist eine Teil dieser Transition, in der du bist, die Teile deines Lebens, die weggefallen sind, und dann anfangen, neue zu erschaffen, oder zumindest offen zu neuen zu sein. Und sie kommen immer, ob du sie fragst oder nicht.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Weißt du, Veränderung wird Veränderung, oder? Leben wird Leben. Wenn du mit dieser Idee freundlich werden kannst, kann es sehr liberierend sein. Es kann sehr klar werden. Und in der Zeit wird es tatsächlich sehr aufregend werden. Aber es wird dich benötigen, die Bedrohung zu lassen, um dein Leben wieder genau so zusammenzubringen, wie es war. Oder um alles perfekt zu verstehen, um sich zu heilen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Neither of those things is actually possible, because again, everything is constantly changing, everything is constantly dying, including us, as it should. And life rarely makes sense in the way that our minds want to make sense of it, in my experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Aber in der größeren Bildung, in seiner sehr bizarren Art, es ist fast mystisch, endet das Leben immer mit perfekten Sinn, aber das ist nicht wirklich für uns zu kontrollieren. Es ist nur für uns, um zu appreizieren und zu entdecken und hoffentlich mit zusammenzuarbeiten. Und das inkludiert deine Schmerzen für Mumu.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Also ja, auf alle Fälle investiere in deine Beziehungen, suche den Job, den du willst. Sich in dein neues Zuhause zu befinden, neue Freunde zu machen, finanziell stabil zu werden, all das ist wichtig. Du musst den Weg kreieren, den du fühlst, dass er zerbrochen ist. Aber während du das tust, würde ich auch versuchen, Raum für die Idee zu machen, dass ein neuer Weg aufwächst, wie es sollte.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
This pattern has repeated several times. Each time she convinces a new psychiatrist to vouch for her stability, and the courts once again push for visitation. No matter how much harm she causes, or how desperately I beg for protection, the system prioritizes her above all else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und die Verwirrung, die du gerade fühlst, die Angst, die du fühlst, sind nicht unbedingt ein Problem oder ein Verlust an deiner Seite. Sie könnten nur sein, wie es sich fühlt, nicht genau zu wissen, was passiert, was mehr als okay ist. I find that there's a very thin line between confusion and wonder. Just something I've been appreciating lately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
So, without being too cute about it, I have a feeling that this might be one of the great gifts that Mumu gave you on his way out. Just this opportunity to learn how to let go and find the courage to keep moving forward without knowing exactly where that's going to go. And also to keep believing in the potential of your life, in the value of your life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Because it is valuable, even when it starts to look unfamiliar.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Rabbi Gabe. Me either. I don't know. I hope that meant something to this guy. I've been going through, obviously, my own version of this the last couple of years, so... I really relate to this story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
My son and I have had restraining orders against her due to her threatening behavior and death threats, but these seem to have little impact on the court's decisions. I receive no child support from her and can barely keep up with the expenses of his care and our adapted home. To make matters worse, she gets free legal help and can drag me into court as often as she wants, draining my resources.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Wow. Wow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Das macht keinen Sinn. How can I protect my son, fight an endless legal battle, and keep myself afloat financially and emotionally? Are there strategies I haven't considered? Is there a way to break out of this vicious cycle? Signed, running out of time to make the courts find that my ex really is out of her mind.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
So verrückt. Ich verstehe nicht. Unkonsensual. Unkonsensual. Unkonsensual.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I suddenly have a lot of questions for Norway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
What are you talking about? Those things are just for your hands, aren't they?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Es sieht aus, als ob das jahrelang passiert ist. Ich weiß nicht. Yeah, this is beyond the pale. I really hope one of those things works. Those are your main legal options. But as is his custom, Corbyn also wanted to share a few ideas about, you know, how to cope with the situation, how to work through it on a more personal level. So the first and I kind of love this one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
ist, deine Geschichte zu nutzen, um für Veränderungen, wenn möglich, in dem norwegischen Gesetzessystem zu drücken. Es klingt mir so, als ob die Regeln um Kindesrechte und Verwaltung, wenn nicht reformiert, dann in deinem Land ernsthaft betrachtet werden müssen. Oder zumindest, dass hier eine wirklich wichtige Konversation zu haben ist. Du hast das zuerst gesehen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Also, du könntest vielleicht irgendwie die Regierung lobbyieren. Vielleicht fragst du vielleicht um Beratungen mit Repräsentanten, um das Gesetz zu verändern. You could, I don't know, write an op-ed about your experience or share your story in the media, at least to just get the ball rolling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Although you really want to clear that with a lawyer first, before you start sharing intimate details from your custody battle with your ex. I'm not sure how it works over there. Corbyn hat gesagt, dass das nicht unbedingt die einfache Option ist, aber es ist eine Option.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Und es könnte ein Weg sein, den Schmerz, den du fühlst, in potenziell tangiblen Vorteile für Familien in deinem Land zu bringen, nur indem du die Wege zeigst, wie die Systeme wirklich Eltern und Kinder wie deiner verletzen können.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Corbin's other idea, much closer to home, is to consider looking into support groups and other resources for parents like you who have ex-partners who are abusive, who are dangerous. Corbin unhesitatingly told us that you are not alone in struggling with this kind of scenario. And there are probably tons of groups out there with resources, advice, just general support.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
But again, be careful, be discerning when you choose whom to open up to. For example, Corbin reminded us that here in the States... Es gibt diesen Bewegung, den Vaterrechts-Bewegung, den ich ein bisschen darüber gelesen habe, aber nicht wirklich allzu viel darüber weiß. Und im Grunde genommen kämpft dieser Gruppe generell darum, dass Väter gleiche Verwaltungsrechte für Mütter haben.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
Wieder zurück zu Jordan's Punkt über Gerichte, die Corbyns Gefühl ist, dass wir kulturell genug verändert haben in den letzten ein paar Generationen hier in Amerika, dass die Kürze des Bias gegen Mütterinnen und Mütter sich sehr niedrig gemacht hat und dass der Vater-Recht-Movement ehrlich gesagt, in seiner Meinung, extrem bitter und vitriolisch ist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
I think those are for your hands, but people are just taking it upon themselves to sanitize the general area. You may be right, but let me ask you this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday
So he would avoid any people or groups that seek to foster that kind of bitterness or encourage any sketchy behavior on your part. Anything like that while you're going through this. But I'm pretty sure that most resources and communities out there are mostly going to be helpful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But look, as for your banger of a final question, literally, would asking him to explore things for real be taking advantage of him if he agrees to date you just to avoid being exposed, which you also apparently find kind of hot? Unreal. That really depends on how you ask him. I mean, if you say...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
hey, I want you to come over and if you don't come over, I'm going to tell your girlfriend and her whole family what you did and I'm going to post screenshots of our messages. I'm going to tell everyone at Thanksgiving that I was exposing you. That's one thing. That would be, I mean, I think that's kind of extortion, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But if you come clean and you say, look, I get the sense that you might be enjoying this. I'm happy to tell you that I am too. If you're open to talking about this, if you want to tell me why you did it and what you're looking to get out of this, And that conversation goes well in some scenario. And it naturally progresses to you guys basically saying, I'm into you. I'm into you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And do you want to date? Yeah, sure. Let's do it. Obviously, that's a very different story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I think it is. Unless what he's saying is I might actually be willing to extort this guy in order to sleep with him, in which case the fantasy and the reality are somehow merging again. I'm so confused. Right, but I don't think that's what he's saying. No, I don't think that's what he's getting at either.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
The sense I get is that he's exploring aspects of his sexuality that are still kind of new for him. They're taboo. They're a little underground. They're not fully explored, and this is his chance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
man, that would be hot. He might just be taking this opportunity to share a piece of the fantasy with us, to tell us where he is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Okay. Right. But again, I'm sorry to repeat myself. I cannot stress this enough. This is another area where you really need to separate out what turns you on from what is appropriate and responsible and prudent here, because there's something about your personality or maybe just the situation that
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It sounds to me like it's very tempting for you to paint with both colors in this situation, so to speak.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, well, and by the way, we're not talking about your orientation. We're talking about fantasy and reality. Right, right, right. He doesn't know what painting he's making either. And that's what's fascinating about this and what's also kind of terrifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
No. I thought you were wincing because you just got a vasectomy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Did you talk about Feedback Friday or did you talk about the interviews?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I love that you're describing your vasectomy appointment as a vibe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah. I didn't fall off my skateboard when I was 12. I don't have a scraped knee, pal. That's not what we're dealing with here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Jordan, just imagine if these two do end up getting together. What an origin story that would be. Tell me about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, yada, yada. Yeah, Lionel almost blackmailed me. But we grabbed lattes and we realized we're actually really into each other. What a tale. Also, Lionel's a great name. It is. It's such a catfisher name.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I'm a banker for the Saudi Prince.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
All I can say is if you decide to continue, you have to send us updates because we need to know what happens and we will air them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I have a foreign name and I've noticed that it can sometimes be challenging in professional settings, especially when it comes to standing out or being memorable. It's also just annoying to have every small talk conversation revolve around the pronunciation of my name. And if I don't meet people face to face, they often misgender me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how someone with a name that's unfamiliar or difficult to pronounce can successfully build a strong personal brand. I don't mind having a nickname, but I do want to let people know that I'm from Lithuania. Are there any strategies or tips you recommend to overcome potential obstacles while still maintaining authenticity?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Signed, avoiding these sighs and hanging on to my pride without a pronunciation guide.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yes. So they're just like going around calling you like wiener.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Excited to dive in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? Oh, man. All right. Let's get into it. Hi Jordan and Gabe. I'm in my 40s and in a marriage where we've been living separate lives for a couple of years now. Then, a couple months ago, I received an unsolicited message from an attractive woman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, My 23-year-old son was commissioned an officer in the military last year following grueling undergraduate academics and ROTC at a top-tier school. He's currently in very academically stressful military training with constant 12-plus hour days of varying shifts and regular testing before he goes into the force to do the job.
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1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I recently visited him and while cleaning his room, he still lives like a teenage boy, I found some erectile dysfunction medication. I asked him about it, and he initially denied that he had any issues and said that it helped him in his workouts. He's a gym rat, lifts daily, and has become very fit over the last three years, although he still vapes regularly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But I pressed him, and he admitted that he has performance issues, but he's, quote, okay by himself, unquote.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
From the way he wrote that sentence, I think he meant the latter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Well, I guess that's, we don't know. Physical, psychological, both.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I do not believe he has regular sex. He might have only been with two or three partners since his sophomore year in high school. I asked if he had talked to anyone about this issue. He said, I'm just really stressed. Grind my teeth at night so much my jaw hurts in the morning, don't sleep well, and have more important things to worry about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Besides, no wonder I have issues with you and mom harping on about don't get anyone pregnant.
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1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
She said she was a friend of a friend moving to the area and started by asking some questions about the neighborhood. She quickly became flirtatious, so I did a reverse image search and discovered that the picture belonged to a different woman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But he's saying something else here. He's saying his parents have given him some kind of complex right by warning him about getting somebody pregnant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Oh, by the way, he hates the training, as do many of his peers, and did not pick this military specialty. He was drafted into it based on his good grades and caliber of school he attended, like a few of his peers in the specialty. I don't want him to have the empty sex that I had through my 20s and early 30s, but I do want him to be happy, healthy, and strong, and not have ED.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It brings me to tears knowing that he's so dissatisfied. I'm so proud of how he's pushing through and succeeding at this training, but I don't want his mental or physical health to suffer as a result of his professional successes. Could this ED be temporary? How can I help him with any of this? Signed, Wondering about the feasibility of confronting my son's debility when it comes to his virility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Well, quite. And this is a bit of a theme in this letter, how involved and possibly over-involved he is in his son's life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It was interesting. The first thing that jumped out at me was that he discovered the ED medication while cleaning his son's room, his 23-year-old son's room, who's about to become an elite officer in the military.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
OK, so fair. I guess that's possible. But when you said he still lives like a teenage boy, that's another interesting detail. It makes me wonder if the son is extremely capable, hyper developed in certain departments and in other departments, he might be a little immature or regressed. in certain ways.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And dad is still in the mode of, I need to help you do basic things like clean your room so you can function. And I guess my question is, does that speak to a broader dynamic between them?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yes. The other meaningful detail is the thing you reacted to, how his son said, no wonder I have issues, you know, when you and mom are always like banging on about don't get, sorry for the choice of words, harping on about don't get anyone pregnant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I agree. But what he's saying is there's something about the way you did it that kind of messed me up. You didn't just educate me. You freaked me out about it. He said the word harped. I mean, the word harped kind of speaks volumes to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Something potentially inappropriate and overly involved. It's possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And that's also a fair point. I mean, for all we know, mom and dad were just guiding him and they stayed within the lines. But the fact that his son said that to him in a heated way, I don't know about you, Jordan, but I'm hearing a young man who feels a bit stifled, a bit angry, you know, whether this particular conversation about safe sex was handled well or not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
When I contacted that woman, she told me she'd previously had her picture used by an ex-boyfriend whom she now has no contact with. It turns out this ex is now the current boyfriend of my wife's cousin. So it looks like I'm getting catfished by an in-law's partner.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, also possible. Or it's both. We just don't know. But then our friend here also seems to know a lot about his son's sex life. He doesn't think that he's having regular sex. He seems to know how many partners his son has had. He straight up asked his son if he has performance issues. And then when his son didn't really want to talk about it, he said he pressed the issue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
All of that is pretty intimate information for a parent to know. So I guess here's what I'm getting at. And I tread lightly here because I know in certain families with certain parents, Maybe sons and fathers talk about this stuff and these topics are totally fair game and there's nothing weird about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So I'm not saying that this is automatically pathological, but his son does not seem to want to talk about this stuff. And yet here they are talking in intimate detail about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
No, but that's an important point because that's a big factor here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So it's funny, I looked this up and apparently that is a thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
There's more and more research coming out about this. I highly recommend Googling it, by the way. But one study I found, it was just one of many, a UCLA study found that men who used e-cigarettes every day were more than twice as likely to experience ED as those who had never vaped. There's a real connection there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
You know, there's one more thing in here that's jumping out at me. This thing he said about how his son hates the training he's doing and how he didn't pick this specialty and he was drafted into it based on his grades and the school he attended. So again, I'm reading between the lines here, as I am wont to do, but I'm just imagining what a 23-year-old man in this position must be feeling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
He hates his training, which, okay, we all go through tough chapters on our way to doing the thing we really want to do. I get that. I don't think anyone in the military is like over the moon about their training.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But the fact that he didn't pick his specialty, the fact that he was sort of pulled into it by default, that he might not have truly chosen this path, that he might even be regretting or at least questioning it, I can imagine that that would bring up a number of feelings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So his son might be feeling anxious, he might be feeling terrified, he might be angry, and I don't know at whom, maybe his school or the military or himself or his parents or maybe everyone, for not helping him see this before it happened. He might be having a minor or not so minor professional crisis, or he's just really going through it right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And he might be feeling trapped and disempowered.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Well, that might be contributing to them, yes. But actually, I was drawing more of a potential connection between this feeling of being suffocated and disempowered in his career and this potential feeling of being suffocated and disempowered by his parents' over-involvement in his life. I guess what I'm wondering is, is this a theme that is popping up in a few areas for him?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I saw your face when you said I was like, does he know? Does he know what he's doing? But no, I'm with you. I got you. I mean, look, it's interesting. Something as minor as not cleaning your room. There could be a number of explanations for that. I mean, yeah, one of them might be that he's just kind of a mess and he's not super on top of his little space or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But it could also be that it's a form of rebellion, a kind of unconscious F you. I want to do things my way. You know, I might be living in a mess, but it's on my terms kind of thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So everything dad is noticing here, and I think it's really interesting that he chose to include these details about how his son feels about his career when they seem sort of tangential to the whole ED thing, but I'm not sure that they are tangential. All of this is probably a strong signal that they need to back off and let their son figure this out in his own way. At least for now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Not just because it's the appropriate thing to do, but because I do get the sense that this guy is craving some privacy and some freedom to make his own choices and work through his own problems.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yes, but that might be healthy for all of them, I think.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Who used to date this other woman whose photo he's using. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So catfishing is like luring somebody online into a relationship by pretending to be somebody you're not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
No, these stocking stuffers are going to be lit today. Lit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Greetings, Jordan and Gabe. I have a wonderful girlfriend who I just bought a house with. We're finally living the life we hoped for, close to activities, good food, and good friends. The only hitch is my girlfriend's brother and their mother. Her brother has recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. and it's really weighing on her family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
He just turned 17, so it's a delicate time for him. He doesn't see his dad a lot anymore due to his drinking and smoking, which make him uncomfortable. But that doesn't stop his dad from lying to him about his mom. They've been divorced for some time now, but his dad has told him how his mom locked him up, starved him, and ignored him throughout his childhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
This has made my girlfriend's brother callous and even hateful toward their mom. He brushes her off, curses at her, and gives her an air of disdain all the time. So their mom tries to make up for it by buying him everything he asks for, thinking it will somehow make things better. She somehow accepted that she was a terrible mother, which is not true, as I've seen her affection in action.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So there was a whole show about it. There was weirdly fascinating. I think it might even still be on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But it's like money is the only thing she knows to turn to now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Unclear. He's saying he doesn't think that the mom did any of this because what he's seen is that she's lovely. But I guess it's possible that she is. But then the dad is not a reliable narrator. So we don't know. So he goes on, He's made comments about the money he spends on my girlfriend's brother, but it never amounts to anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I try to offer my girlfriend advice on what to do, but she always just ends on, it's a delicate time for him and I don't know what else to do. Their dad was abusive to her in the past, so I can understand why she's struggling. She just wants the best for her brother.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Right, although there's no evidence of that in the letter, other than the mom's belief now that she was actually a bad mom. This family, yeah, poor kids. So confusing, yeah. Signed, fed up with the vibe in my girlfriend's tribe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But it's weirdly entertaining. It is. And the people they find are so bizarre. It's a strange thing to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I get that, too. Another thing that's in the mix here is his feelings about how the mother showers praise on her son for every little thing he does. Right. I find that very interesting. Yeah, that's right. He said it irks him. It irks him, although it sounds it sounds like it might be a little bit more than irks him because he said he isn't feeling normal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So when he would just want to be treated normal, like he sounds kind of angry.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
That seems to be his argument. Like, why make him feel even more different and weirder by going out of your way to praise him every time he takes the car to the car wash or whatever, you know? But I don't know. I feel like there might be more to that. I wonder if watching this family bend over backward to accommodate this guy, to prop him up, to validate him...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
to make life easier for him, it seems to me that there's something about that that just does not sit very well with him. So obviously, we don't have enough information in the letter to know why that is. But I don't know, am I crazy? Or is that jumping out to you too? Like, I feel like this is just like poking at him in a certain way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Maybe there's something in his own upbringing, maybe, maybe nobody accommodated him like that. And it's hard to watch it happen for somebody else, especially somebody who's causing so much havoc in his life. via his girlfriend. But for some reason, I feel like he might also be, I don't know, I guess I'm wondering if he's kind of envious of this guy on some level.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. It's just something for our friend here to consider because I think part of what we're feeling our way through here is why does watching this family's pain hurt me so much? And separating out these feelings might make this situation hurt a little bit less. I think it would also help him figure out what piece of this he does control.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Except his relationship with his girlfriend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, but that doesn't mean she doesn't need some help, some solutions. That's for sure true, of course. But what she is saying to him back, it's a delicate time for him. I don't know what else to do. That's a little bit of a non-response or it's an admission that she really cannot change any of this herself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Or increasingly, I'm feeling like it's also to make peace with the fact that she can't do that and learn how to pull back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yes, I think that's absolutely right. And that's where that possible envy piece and how this family's way of dealing with its problems in general uniquely triggers him. I think that's where that becomes really important again, in my opinion, because look, there's what's actually playing out in this family, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
There are these fights and these accusations and this abuse and who abused whom and who's responsible for the pain. And there's a mood disorder in the mix and there are all these family dynamics. And all of this is objectively tragic and painful. But then there's also the lens through which our friend here sees all of that and goes, this is really tough to watch.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And I don't know how much longer I can stand by and watch this without doing something about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Part of his work is to explore those thoughts and feelings and beliefs so he can know what to do here. For example, he might... have an unconscious need to resolve the wounds in this family because, I don't know, they echo certain ones in his own family, or because it just feels gratifying to him to play that role, but that doesn't mean he should.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Or there's another possibility, to go back once again to that envy piece, It might be so distressing to him to watch a mother figure cater to her son in this way that he has the impulse to intervene and tell her to stop. You know, not necessarily because she should, but because it's kind of offensive and uncomfortable to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So he goes on, I think there are three possible reasons he's doing this. One, he's trying to get me in an embarrassing situation which my wife could then use as grounds for getting a better settlement in a divorce. That's a dark possibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Or, I don't know, he might want to intervene because it's distressing to him to watch his girlfriend suffer and not know how to do her own work around this. I'm grasping at a few theories here. It's up to you to decide if these actually fit, but you see what I'm getting at.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And even if he is receptive, he's still going to have to repair things himself. So none of this changes the fact that ultimately this is not your family, this is not your brother, and this is going to be a hard system for you alone to heal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is an acupressure mat. So if you've never heard of these things, it's basically like a mat and a pillow with these sharp spiky things on them. And they dig into your skin and it hurts like hell for a minute or two. And then it feels amazing. My friend Itai lent me his. It changed my life. Really? Yeah, it's awesome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I don't think that means my wife is involved. There are no indications of that, though it is possible. So I need to be careful. I'm trying to imagine a scenario, Jordan, where that could be happening and his wife wouldn't be involved. Like, so somebody would just be trying to... Yeah, it seems weird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It's a really nice way to end a work day, to end a work when you get home from a workout. Sometimes I lie on it after a day of writing and I'll just do it for 10 minutes. And it's just like you wake up, you stand up and you're refreshed and you feel great and kind of alert. It's really cool. It can also be a replacement for naps.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
What is this? What did you get me this year? Oh, a whole new batch of WTF. Thanks, Mom.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
If you get tired in the afternoon, you just lie on this thing for five or 10 minutes and it'll just kind of like bring you back to life. I read up on it and they are proven to relieve stress, pain, anxiety. Some people say they improve sleep. I haven't noticed that benefit myself, but there's definitely something going on with like increasing your energy levels.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I think it triggers the release of endorphins and it somehow influences your sympathetic, parasympathetic nervous system activity somehow. But yeah, give it a go for yourself and see. Not everybody loves them. It's kind of uncomfortable. You have to get used to it. But I am such a convert. I love this thing. The one I have is called the Pronomat Eco, which is one of the higher end ones.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But I'm also going to link to two other models. There's a mid-range one and then there's like a very affordable one. I haven't tried those other ones myself, but I wanted to give you guys a few options just in case you want to give one a try and see if you like it before you invest in a really nice one. But this thing is an amazing addition to the home. It's also a great gift for people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
So hope you enjoy it. Huh?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It basically is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It's like these little plastic spikes. Yeah. And they dig into your skin and then you, for like an hour afterwards, you have little marks on your skin and then they go away. Huh. But once you settle in and you've just let it like dig into your scalp, it's like getting a massage without having to do anything. That's interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I have two teenage children. One is a freshman in college, the other is a junior in high school. My wife and I have set aside funds to pay for hopefully all of their college expenses. This includes tuition, room and board, books, food, etc. But now I'm wondering what happens if one of them goes to an inexpensive college and the other goes to an expensive one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Is it fair to the one who goes to the less expensive college if more of the funds help the other child? I think I would feel bad if three quarters of the funds were used to help the child go to the expensive college, while the other child only uses a quarter of the funds, even if they would both be getting their college expenses covered.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
The one who's already in college is in a relatively inexpensive one. If my other child has the choice between an inexpensive college and an expensive one, should we ask them to factor this in? How would you guys handle this? Signed, evening out the scales as my children set sail.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Like, what? Yeah. I mean, maybe? I don't know. I just got you half of his 401k. You're welcome. Yeah, weird. He goes on, my wife and I live in the same house and I don't want to end up having to sell the house and upset the kids. Wow, that is just such a weird scenario. There's a lot going on here. Yeah, there's a lot going on in this marriage and it's not even the thing he's asking about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I like that. It would also be inviting them to think about how they want to invest in themselves, which is always a good idea.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
FYI, I haven't done anything wrong so far that would cause a divorce and haven't taken any embarrassing selfies. Okay, good. Thank God. Possibility two, he's doing this on his own initiative and will soon be trying to blackmail me if I play along much more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
The dilemma I'm in is that once I found out who's doing the catfishing, a good-looking guy in his late 20s who I've met at family events and found attractive, I've started to really enjoy the flirtatious messages.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Just keep your finger on the soundboard button because that's going to keep happening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
While I assume he doesn't know that I've discovered his identity, I like to think that actually he might know and could be messaging me with his own wishes, which is possibility number three.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Keep going. I previously wondered whether he was perhaps bisexual, and given this situation, am realizing this may apply to me as well. He's a bit of a bravado jock who would never openly say any of these things, so that makes me wonder if he's secretly enjoying the messages too, as he clearly knows they're coming to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Knowing it's really him telling me her desires is exciting and makes it feel like we have a secret relationship. I could be kidding myself, but when we've met before, he's behaved in a way that was quite attractive. Arm around the shoulder type thing. But he does this with some other people too, so it could be a false alarm.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
If we ever did get together, it would need to be covert for us both, given his jock image and my wish to not provide grounds for divorce, and it's likely to be short-lived but thrilling. But I feel a bit guilty as I'm now effectively reverse catfishing the catfisher and getting a twisted pleasure out of it, and I know I can't keep this up forever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I don't have any firm evidence of this, but if this turns out to be a tactic for a divorce, it will definitely become known who's involved and could implode as a strategy as the catfisher couldn't hide and would be legally liable if it looked like blackmail. And blackmail would be very clumsy, and the likely legal trouble should put this guy off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
The sensible thing to do is to tell him the game's up, and that I've been stringing him along for a while for a laugh. But it's also the boring thing. And I'd be denying myself something that could be fun.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Should I tell him I know it's him and finish it? Or should I say that I've known it was him for a while and that I'd like us to continue without the pretense to see if he'd like to start a real physical relationship? Or is that taking advantage of him, as he may agree just to avoid being exposed as a catfisher, which is also kind of hot? Oh my god, okay, this is too much. Is this real?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Or is this whole thing just twisted and doomed? Signed, crazy-ish to tempt this catfish, or unselfish to pursue a new wish? First things first, bruh.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I've seen it all on Feedback Friday, but I've never seen some shit like this. That's right. That's right. An unfiltered cigarette. Yeah. Whole new species of dues. Wow. Right here. We're going to need a whole new champagne bottle. That's right. A whole new dues phylum for sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's part revenge, part fantasy, part self-exploration. There's so much happening in this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But that is part of the thrill because our friend here is one step ahead of this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Okay. I mean, way to go with the boring choice, Jordan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I know. No, you're right. The longer you string this guy along, the worse it's going to be when you finally tell him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
What concerns me the most about all of this is the assumptions that our friend here is making about this guy that are feeding the fantasy, right? He said that he likes to think that this guy actually might know that he knows who he is, that he could be texting him with his own wishes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
It does feel like a reach. He said he wondered if this guy was bi. He's obviously hoping that he is. So there's a part of him that wants it to be true that he's secretly enjoying all of this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But then he said that when they met in person, the guy was kind of flirtatious. He put his arm around him and stuff like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I mean, like I do that with people like you. I'm a hug guy at a party. Right. So maybe this guy is just super friendly and affectionate. And our friend here is reading what he wants into that behavior. Or who knows, maybe he has some really good gaydar and there was some charged moment in the kitchen or something. And. we don't know about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And so he has a strong hunch that this guy is into him. I suppose that's possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Right. And then he said that if they ever did get together, it would have to be on the DL. It would probably be short lived, but thrilling. But let's remember, he has very little evidence of that. Oh, I would argue no, no real evidence. Yeah, pretty much none. So connecting these dots that probably don't exist, imagining a certain version of how this story plays out,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
That's part of the fantasy, and that's fine. Fantasies are often illogical, improbable, a little crazy. That's part of what makes them fantasies. That's also why they're private. But it's only fine if he's not confusing the fantasy with the reality of the situation. What I'm hearing is that he's kind of blending the two. And that's where I get a little bit worried for him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
I'm not saying he's crazy or anything like that. I'm not even saying he's wrong for hoping that they could be something. But as he decides what to do here, I think he has to be very clear and very careful about not letting the two mix too much. He needs to make sure his fantasy is not dictating his reality.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Because for all he knows, and what seems to be the likely scenario here, he's texting with a guy who has some other reason for catfishing him. A potentially quite alarming reason. And he might be blind to that because he's so caught up having fun enjoying this fantasy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
And apparently it's not his first time, according to his ex. That's worrisome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
There is something wrong with this guy. I don't know what he's up to, but it's not normal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
Well, again, I think that's another way that the fantasy and the reality are blurring in a worrisome way, or his desire to buy into the fantasy is making him vulnerable to the risks here. I mean, look, he came right out and said, this guy might in fact be trying to screw me over. So he's not completely unaware of that possibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1093: When the Hunter Becomes the Honeypot | Feedback Friday
But I do think his judgment might be a little compromised to some degree by his excitement.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Hello. I have a foot. I have two feet. How are your feet today, Junie?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm having my first child in a few months, my parents' first grandchild, and recently flew across the country for a baby shower they were hosting. My mother-in-law invited family and parents of my husband's childhood friends, but then also included several members from her tribe, her MLM slash essential oils slash supplement group, whom I've never met.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Pushing 30 cases of bergamot oil on your college roommate next to the stork-shaped spanakopita. That's the scene.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I have to stop and explain for our listeners the glee on Jordan's face right now that he just got to use that. I think you've been sitting on that one for at least two years. Oh, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You've been on a good run with the sound bites lately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And here we are. Here we are. All right. So the letter goes on. The shower was OK, but it felt awkward having strangers at an event that was supposed to be for me. It felt like I was just a featured guest at my mother-in-law's show.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Whoa.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Side note, fascinating how many baby shower drama questions we've had lately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah. But I just mean like in the last few weeks, we've gotten so many letters about the same event.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Oh, I didn't even think about that. That could explain it. Okay. Also, only a few people from the guest list of about 40 actually purchased items from our registry. And those who did bring gifts brought them in person, despite our invitation clearly stating to ship them directly to us so we wouldn't have to pay to transport them back across the country.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Can you see that little foot?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
The gift is mentorship and leadership and community.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
That was a foot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Most likely charitable and cutting take on your part. I'm grateful for the attempt to celebrate this significant life event, and I appreciate the gifts we received, but the whole thing felt like it was designed for my mother-in-law's benefit, rather than mine. This isn't the first time she's done something like this. She once randomly declared that the family had a tradition
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You don't know that. You can't smell my feet over there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
of running 5Ks at Thanksgiving and then cutting down Christmas trees, neither of which ever happened during my husband's childhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Okay, so I'm guessing it just means that the mother-in-law does things that benefit her without thinking how they're going to affect everyone else. And maybe she literally made a bunch of family members run a 5K and cut down Christmas trees one year because she wanted to pretend that was a thing they do for God knows what reason. Sure, and this woman is a little off her rocker. Maybe a little.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I know I'll need to set boundaries when the baby arrives, as I'm certain she'll try to push her anti-science beliefs and dietary restrictions on my child, but that's a conversation for another time. Am I being ungrateful? How do I continue to navigate these challenges? Signed, stuck between munificence and malevolence when it comes to my mother-in-law's recklessness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
No, you can't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Not on my end, Junie. Maybe over there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
So we're recording a podcast.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Do you know what that is?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I like that approach. Basically, you need to kind of risk disappointing and maybe occasionally hurting your mother-in-law if it's necessary and if it means standing up for your legitimate interests. You don't need to be cruel. You don't need to be disrespectful. I don't think we're saying that you should be adversarial for no reason.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Oh, it's what your dad does for a living.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I would not defy your mother-in-law just for the sake of winning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
But if her way of doing things is going to continue to come at your expense in some significant way, like having to participate in a party that's more for her than for you or having to run five kilometers on Christmas when you don't want to or whatever, I think it's perfectly all right to push back or work with her to create the experience that you and your family do want.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Did you know that?
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You did know that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a federal employee, and I've been struggling with anxiety recently due to the uncertainty of my employment. I've been lucky enough to remain employed, but I've communicated with many people who have been released due to the federal realignment. Most of them are friends who have spent their entire lives as civil servants.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I don't have a hot tub still. Since yesterday, I didn't get one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Just for anyone who's listening right now who doesn't live in the US, I think this person is referring to the doge cuts and to a lot of the layoffs that have been hitting government agencies across the board. So he goes on, how do you handle losing a position if you feel it was unwarranted?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
If you work on programs that give aid to people in need, USAID, how do you reconcile leaving those things undone? When an organization, agency, or job you've spent most of your life supporting is shut down unexpectedly, how do you feel about the work you've done throughout your career? Signed, Coping with the Specter of Losing My Vector in the Public Sector.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You want to buy me one?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You want to buy me a hot tub?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Okay. We'll talk to your dad about that. I can have yours? You're going to give me your hot tub?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
But then what hot tub are you going to go in?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Oh, so we share? Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Ginny, I have to work with your dad, and we're going to be done really soon, and then you can hang out with him as much as you want. Sound good? or thumbs up?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And the truth is, you don't know if you want to walk through them because, you know, you haven't walked through them yet. But there's a world where if you do end up losing your job, which, you know, I sincerely hope does not happen, but I think we need to prepare for the possibility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
To Jordan's point, there's just so little control you have over this huge force that is moving through the government right now. There is a world where you wake up in three months or six months or a year and you go, man, this... was not where I thought I would end up, but it's actually kind of worked out well, or at least it was interesting. Having your career turned upside down sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I get it, I know, it's awful. But the pain that you're experiencing right now is actually a symptom of change. It's not necessarily an indicator of whether that change is good or bad. And I think that's also important to remember. So don't let your anxiety and anger blind you to the opportunities here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Once you give yourself over to what's happening, even if you hate it, you're going to start to spot them and you're going to start to get curious about them. And I can tell you firsthand, it is ultimately kind of exhilarating to do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I also hear that our friend is struggling not just with the practicals of losing his job, but with meaning. I think anyone who loses their job has to grieve not just the identity and the structure of their profession, they also have to grieve their purpose and their impact. In some ways, that can be even more painful, especially for mission-driven people like you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Thumbs up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
No, thumbs up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And honestly, I don't know if there's a simple answer to that part. I don't know if you can really reconcile leaving certain things undone, especially when those things, like some of the initiatives that were being done at USAID, however you feel about that agency, they do have a real impact on people's lives. And that's a whole other bucket of anxiety and pain to deal with, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Jordan's advice to fully surrender applies here to reconciling. That's another thought. I think that's another thing that your brain wants to do. And yeah, maybe you'll get there one day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
But in the meantime, I think you just got to accept, which means being willing to feel all of the feelings around not being able to finish the work that you care about and not understanding why it makes any sense. And you got to trust that might be painful, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the end of the mission for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
It doesn't mean you can't pursue that purpose somewhere else in a new way, in a new role. It doesn't mean that the people whose lives that you and your colleagues touched are not going to find other sources of support. And by the way, it definitely doesn't mean that the work you've done up till now is totally meaningless. You get to decide how to feel about your track record.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Okay, fine. Bye, Junie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And that's going to show up in how you communicate that meaning. For example, when you reach out to people and tell them your story or when you sit down for job interviews. So basically, you want to make sense of this, but the reality is that it might not ever totally make sense. Basically, I understand that you want to make sense of this so that you can get through it somehow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
But the reality is that it might not ever totally make sense, at least to you. And I also think it's possible that it doesn't have to make sense in the way that you want it to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
No worries.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You could be a party planner for the mother-in-law from the previous question. You don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Dear I Got Kidnapped Twice and Handsome Boy Number Two. Ooh. I'm a 47-year-old guy living in South Dakota, and I have a sister-in-law, let's call her Debbie, who's a little older than me, is intellectually disabled, and has a mental age of four or five. Last year, there was a dust-up between Debbie and the rest of the family that caused us all to cut a visit short and go home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Even though she was largely responsible, I decided to be the bigger person and smooth things over, so for Christmas I gave her a card apologizing for hurting her feelings. She yelled, I don't want an apology, I want to be mad, which was probably the most authentic thing she's ever said. We're all used to her being perpetually angry, so we let it slide as cute, albeit a little disappointing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Had a little bit of Jaden going, freaking energy. Freaking! Yeah. I have two sons. One is a teenager and the other is about to be a teenager and is also severely autistic. Debbie and my in-laws live around the corner from us and do a lot of the daycare. She likes to feed my boys afternoon snacks. Although at this age, it's less of a necessity and more of a chance for them all to hang out.
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
The other day, my wife went to pick up the boys while I was at work and Debbie was in one of her moods. So she said, Debbie, you would feel so much better if you would just apologize to your brother-in-law and accept his apology. So Debbie went into the bathroom, came back into the living room holding a bottle of medicine and shoved all the pills into her mouth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Then my youngest son entered the room to find Debbie attempting to down the pills.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
My wife immediately called 911, and my father-in-law went about getting Debbie to spit out the pills. After my wife got off the phone with 911, she called me, and I raced over from work to get my kids out of that house around the same time that the cops and the paramedics showed up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Like a turf war breaking out in the house between Jaden and Judith. Yes. That's hilarious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
For various legal and tax reasons, Debbie has never been legally declared mentally incompetent and nobody has guardianship over her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
So when the authorities arrived, she told them she didn't swallow any of the pills and didn't want further help, which meant that as soon as the paramedics determined she was either telling the truth or didn't swallow enough pills to be dangerous, they couldn't enforce an involuntary psychiatric hold and they left.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
right? I wonder if he just meant that it's a lot of responsibility. Like for example, if you have a guardianship, I think you have to get power of attorney. You have to manage the person's benefits. You got to file taxes for them. It's a whole job. But also I did read up on this a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And if you don't do any estate planning or like gift tax planning before the ruling of incompetence, apparently you do have fewer tax saving strategies. Like it's harder to gift the person assets. For example, Because they can't legally consent to financial transactions or changes in their estate plan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah, you do. First of all, I'm really sorry to everyone for how boring this tangent is, but this could be really helpful for some people listening. So I'll be very brief. There is something called the dependent care credit. If you have to pay somebody to care for your dependent who's incapable of self-care so that you can go and work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And then separately, you can also deduct medical expenses for unreimbursed medical costs for the person if they exceed, I think, a certain percentage of your income.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Also, one other interesting thing, a guardian or a conservator usually requires court approval for significant financial decisions, and that can just like slow down or block certain tax saving strategies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
That's exactly the right question. So he goes on, the family had an agreement that first thing Monday morning, Debbie's parents were going to call her psychiatrist and schedule an emergency appointment to get things under control. But my mother-in-law claims she can only focus on one thing at a time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And right now, Debbie has some minor health issues and she wants to get those under control and just go to their regular psych appointment next month. My father-in-law is willing to give Debbie whatever she wants as long as it keeps her quiet. so he's taking advantage of my mother-in-law's decision to also avoid doing the right thing.
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Meanwhile, my kids are traumatized, especially my younger son, asking if they and Debbie are going to die.
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I am furious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Snacks, meals, and school pickups and drop-offs are done. My wife and I have decided to have zero in-person contact with her family until they meet with Debbie's psychiatrist and come up with a plan. But the most likely outcome is going to be nothing, because by the time they meet, they're going to think everything's calm and there's nothing to worry about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Well, maybe. But you know what? I'm not totally sure that this outcome is what's going to happen. Maybe it is. Maybe this guy knows best. But a good doctor, if they heard what she did, I'm hoping that the parents would tell them the full story. They should factor that into their treatment. They should try to prevent this next crisis. I would hope so. But yeah, there's no guarantee.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
But I just want to say, I do think it's important not to catastrophize too much or assume the worst possible outcome before you have all the information.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
The letter goes on. Even if they do come up with a plan, my wife and I have decided that we're both going to go over when the boys have snacks and... If anything goes sideways, she's going to call 911 while I get the boys out of the house. I'm going to be in total sheepdog mode. My only mission is to make sure Debbie doesn't kill herself in front of my kids or harm them before she goes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I'm so angry with Debbie and her parents that I don't even care if she does it, just that my kids don't witness it or find her after the fact. If her parents want to keep her alive, that's their job. I know that's not a very charitable stance, but it's how I'm feeling right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Can you record some of this and put it on Instagram or something? Cause that would be so funny to see.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Even though I didn't witness what happened, I think I'm in a bit of shock. Yesterday, I was checking the mirrors in my car, scanning rooms and counting exits way more than normal. I'm going to need to dial that instinct up to 11 when we hang out with my in-laws again, but I need to manage it so I can come back down to baseline when I leave. I know you're going to recommend therapy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I have a therapy hotline at work, some pastors that I trust, and some law enforcement and military friends who I plan on having help me manage the threat assessment shifts. Complicating matters, my wife and I will be responsible for Debbie's care when my in-laws pass. That isn't imminent, but she's old enough that things could change rapidly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Her living with us is no longer an option, but there's enough money and state resources to make sure that she's provided for. I'd like to see some of that money put into irrevocable trusts and managed better, but keeping her safe and alive is the priority now. Being able to override her decisions is more important than money.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yes, because it's dangerous out in these streets.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Also, Debbie threw some garbage at my wife during the incident. None of it hit her, but the cop asked, did anything she threw touch you? Intimating that if it did, that could be enough for assault. Jail or criminal charges would hurt more than help, but I am not above getting that 72-hour psych hold on a technicality, even if Debbie and my in-laws don't consent.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
What can we do to protect ourselves? What sort of plan can we create here? How do we set a bottom line for Debbie's father that he will enforce? How can we best care for Debbie when the time comes? What goals should I set for therapy? And any Dark Jordan advice? Signed, protecting my flock and watching my sister-in-law like a hawk when her parents just balk at getting her mental on lock.
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
That's a doozy, dude.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Oh, man. Speaking of protecting yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
On the flip side, I wonder if he looks at the way he's handling his son and he looks at those parents and he's like, guys, this is what you have to do. I'm doing it for my son. Why can't you do it for yours? So it could cut both ways. Interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Hey, Jordan and Gabe. Two close friends and an acquaintance have confided in me that they were brutally assaulted by a man. Let's call him Zach. Zach's MO is this. He dates women, gains their trust with charm, poetry, and wit, then uses psychological manipulation to physically force himself on them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I'm just realizing that that's kind of why I pounced a moment ago when he said that the likeliest outcome of going to the shrink is going to be nothing. Because by assuming the worst, I think you and your wife might be missing a big opportunity, which is to talk to her parents in a new way about your concerns and hopefully work with them in a way that helps avoid that outcome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
You could literally say, guys, we're very concerned that Debbie's psychiatrist is going to think that nothing serious is going on by the time you get in with them. And something serious is going on, even if we don't really want to acknowledge it and we feel that we would be failing her and continuing to put your grandchildren at risk if we don't address this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
So how would you feel about getting that appointment sooner? How can we plan for that appointment starting now so that the doctor understands just how vulnerable she is? Do you want one of us to come with you? Like, how can we help?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's my point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I would also go back and listen to episode 1124. It was question four on that episode where we took a letter from a guy who's trying to figure out how to best care for his autistic brother once his parents get too old. His brother is pretty different from Debbie, but there are so many parallels between your stories and so many similar feelings, which makes sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Afterward, he gaslights them into believing they wanted it, needed it, or that he's quote-unquote enlightening them by forcing some twisted form of shadow work on them. The reality is that he's passing his own trauma onto them under the guise of spiritual growth. In his mind, he's some kind of dark guru dragging women through hell in the name of awakening. In reality, he's just a predator.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I do think our take there will also help you plan for your situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
I totally agree. But listen, I want to talk about you for a moment. You've been through something pretty extraordinary as a father, as a brother-in-law, just as a human being, honestly. It sounds to me like Debbie's suicide attempt brought up a lot for you, which makes sense. The hypervigilance that you described, that's a very common symptom of anxiety, of PTSD, among other things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And like you said, it might be useful because you're going to have to be on high alert when you go over to the house, but you also don't want to live with your nervous system, your brain in that state all the time. That's bad news. So you are absolutely right that we're going to recommend therapy. I think you and probably your wife as well could really benefit from it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And look, I'm so glad that you have a hotline you can call. That's really good in a crisis. And I am all for talking to leaders in your community and friends who can help you navigate all of this. It's wonderful that you're surrounded by so many people. But none of those folks are a replacement for a proper therapist. They might be therapeutic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
They might be very helpful in certain moments, but that doesn't make it therapy. My feeling is that you have a bigger opportunity here, which is not just to focus on symptom reduction, which is important, of course, but also to understand yourself and your family a lot better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
There's a chance here to appreciate why your in-laws are handling Debbie the way they are, why you have the responses to them that you do, including, by the way, this anger that you feel toward them, which I think is very meaningful. Also to understand how your upbringing and your family and your patterns are playing a role in all of this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
to process the stress and responsibility of being a parent to a special needs child yourself, to appreciate how your experience with your son, like we said, might be informing your feelings about your in-laws, which by the way, I suspect is a much bigger part of your story than you might even realize.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And also just on a practical level, one of the big things you get to do in therapy is develop new skills for navigating difficult conversations with family, communicating with your wife about Debbie, and just generally to get clear on your role in this whole situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
When to act, when not to act, what other resources you might need to care for a special needs family member, which is another area where a therapist can be super useful. In other words, what I'm saying is your experience in therapy could be a lot bigger than just figuring out how to, what was the word he used? Manage the threat assessment shifts.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
My sense is that this day at the house when Debbie took the pills is a window into a whole world of feelings and beliefs, experiences, history, family history that are all actually quite complicated. Symptom reduction is one great goal of therapy. It's important. It's not the only goal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And actually, I think it's often the byproduct of a deeper therapeutic process, which is generally unpacking everything around the problem, processing your feelings, building this relationship between you and your therapist, stepping into a better understanding of yourself and your life and how you want to engage with the problems that are in front of you.
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
So bringing down the hypervigilance and ratcheting down the anger, that'll probably happen in the course of doing this kind of work. So I would really encourage you to consider finding a proper therapist and starting to talk. It does sound like you're open to it, which is great. And my goals would be all of the things we just talked about and any others that you find meaningful.
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But my point is to not necessarily go in there with just the goal of how do I stop checking my side mirrors in the car? And how do I stop scanning every room I enter for the exit doors?
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So shadow work, people use that term in different ways, but basically it's about recognizing and integrating the dark side of your personality. So those parts of yourself that you repress or consider shameful or bad in some way, or like certain impulses or behaviors or feelings.
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If I could jump on this stretching bandwagon for one moment, I think another really easy thing to do in this department is if you do down dog for like five minutes a day, it will change your life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It just puts your whole body in the right position. You know what I'm talking about, though, like the pose from yoga.
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It's just amazing. If you push your palms into the floor and you wrap your biceps forward and your triceps back and you just push the floor away and you pull your hips back, it just, your spine and everything lines up in the right way. You don't even have to be a yogi. I've told several friends about this and they're like, oh, my upper back pain is completely gone. My neck feels great.
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And actually what it is kind of interesting about is that for many people, sometimes even good qualities or superpowers can end up in the shadow. And the idea generally is to reclaim them, to be in touch with them and acknowledge them. and be consciously in touch with all of these aspects of yourself so you can integrate them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I stand a little taller. You don't have to be super hardcore to enjoy the benefits. I think this is great. I'm a big fan of stretching and doing tiny bits of yoga in small doses. I love this one.
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All right, what's next? Okay, for our last segment today, I wanted to revisit the letter we took about a month ago from the father of the daughter who refused to move out of her parents' house. That was episode 1127, question two on that episode. So quickly, for anyone who didn't catch it, the guy who wrote in to us was struggling because his 27-year-old daughter still lives at home.
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She kind of refuses to move out and relies heavily on her parents for emotional support, which is now straining their marriage. She's actually a very fascinating person. She was super attached to the house that they live in, attached to her home, to her comforts. She's avoiding therapy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It sounded like she was using a vague goal of working in law enforcement one day as a way to avoid going to therapy and working on herself. And she also struggled with OCD and hoarding tendencies. She wanted to be close to her cats who were buried in the backyard. And whenever they tried to talk to her about any of this, building her own life, she would get heated.
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There was a lot going on in this story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yes, exactly right. So I thought about this letter a lot after it aired, Jordan. And apparently a lot of you guys did, too. There was quite a lively discussion in the subreddit about it. And you can find that, by the way, reddit.com. slash r slash Jordan Harbinger. And you guys brought up a few things that we might have missed in our response.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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So first of all, a lot of you agreed with our general take that the situation was not very healthy for any of them. Most of you seem to feel that this family was in fact quite enmeshed. The daughter was fairly regressed. A lot of you felt that she was actually manipulating her parents by coming up with all of these reasons that she doesn't have to leave the nest.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Also, that detail about sitting on their bed most nights, just emoting. Do you remember that, Jordan? Yeah, yeah. That struck most people as problematic, too. Very problematic. In fact, I thought it was interesting. A couple people pitched the same idea, which was to just shift the location of those conversations from the parents' bedroom...
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to her bedroom or to a neutral space like the living room or the kitchen. I thought that was kind of a clever idea. It doesn't solve the deeper problem, which is that she's just unloading on her parents for apparently hours like a child at her age. It might take out the childlike, childish aspect of talking in her parents' bedroom every night at 27 years old. So that was clever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But then another listener touched on something that we didn't consider, which was, is it possible that their daughter is neurodivergent in some way, possibly on the autism spectrum? And would that account for a lot of her challenges, a lot of her behavior? This listener pointed out that people with ASD sometimes have trouble making friends. They have much higher rates of anxiety disorders.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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They also have a very hard time with change, as we all know, which was a huge theme in the letter. And if this daughter is on the autism spectrum, this listener felt that the parents need to approach the situation very differently. For example, giving her a timeline of six months to move out might not be realistic for her.
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It might really do a number on somebody who struggles with change and might not have the resources yet to really make it on her own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I guess so. I don't know about healed, but the idea is that if you're in touch with all of the parts of yourself, you have more self-awareness, you have more authenticity, you're whole, basically, instead of repressed or cut off or in denial of good or bad parts of yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it is very confusing and it's hard to know the right way to parent. Do you have to respond to the unique needs of each individual child? These are all good questions, but I thought this was a good point. Also, the original listener pointed out something else we might have missed, which is that cultural values can play a big role in situations like this. So as this person put it,
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I understand that she is an adult and the social expectation in the U.S. is that adults should live on their own, but in many cultures, like in Italy, it is common for adult children to live at home in their 30s for economic and personal reasons. This is not necessarily a bad thing unless she's making the living situation difficult for them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yes. He said he and his wife have some tension around their daughter. They aren't able to like step into the next phase of their marriage and their lives. So yes, this is a problem. But the idea that a child at a certain age has to move out. Look, I happen to feel that's probably true universally.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It isn't possible in all countries and cultures for practical reasons like money or the availability of housing, but that's a separate issue. We're talking about what's emotionally healthy and developmentally appropriate, what well-adjusted human beings need. And this 27-year-old refusing to leave home doesn't sound like any of these things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But if we talk to somebody from, I don't know, India or Egypt or Japan, Korea, honestly, even some European countries that are similar in many ways to the United States, They might have a different lens on this. My understanding is that a lot of children in those cultures live with their parents until marriage or often well into their 20s, even their 30s or longer if they don't get married.
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And that's just normal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
Yes, totally. Is this awkward? Is this getting in the way of my growth? Is this impeding the family in general? Is living at home, even if it's like what everyone's cool with, is that also allowing me to not face certain things in my life?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
So honestly, I don't know the answer, but I just wanted to touch on this because we are all influenced by our cultures in ways that are, I think, often hard to see. And maybe our take on that letter was heavily informed by an American value or Western value that adults should not live with their parents past a certain age if they can make it on their own.
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Yeah, precisely. That's a shadowy kind of thing, yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And to be clear, I still don't think that's wrong. I'm not totally convinced that that's completely relative. I suspect that if you asked a lot of adults in Korea or Egypt, if they would prefer to live on their own, if they could afford it, or if they had permission, I think a lot of them would probably say, yes, I would love to do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I'm sure even cavemen wanted to move into their own caves at some point, you know? But I recognize that other cultures might not always share that view. And since we hear from people from all different backgrounds and from all different parts of the world, I just want to make some room for that. We do try to acknowledge when this applies, but honestly, I forget all the time.
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Yeah, that is a really good point. Also, whether this woman is autistic or not, it doesn't change the fact that she's not really helping herself or her parents by responding to her situation the way she is. It doesn't change the fact that their way of relating to her might be preventing them from finding a good solution.
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So all of that could be informed by ASD potentially, which would make a diagnosis very useful. But I'm with you, Jordan. ASD alone probably would not account for how they all ended up here. And so I guess we're back to that interesting question of what role these labels should play in our lives and our treatment and in our decisions, which is a whole other topic.
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Yes, for sure. No legit Jungian or person who's inspired by Jung or anything would do something like this. Ironically though, I don't know all the facts, but if this guy actually did true shadow work on himself, then he probably would not need to abuse other people, but that's a whole other idea. It's so gross.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But just to say beyond the labels and diagnoses underneath these categories and symptoms, I think it's crucial to treat people as individuals with their own unique histories, their own unique personalities.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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their own unique needs, which means, yeah, having empathy and flexibility for their challenges, but also not letting them off the hook completely because, I don't know, a doctor gave them a certain acronym. I think that's really important to keep in mind too.
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From what I've gathered, Zach comes from a highly unstable background. Neglect, drug abuse, financial chaos, maybe worse. He's dabbled heavily in psychedelics, and my suspicion is that unchecked trauma, combined with spiritual bypassing, has left him deeply unhinged.
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One of my friends, let's call her Taylor, already tried to raise the alarm in our dance community, but the organizers hesitated to act, too afraid to make a call based on hearsay, even though Taylor is a pillar of the community. She was in tears when she told me, saying, I hate that he's still allowed at these events, and it makes me so uncomfortable when he shows up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Meanwhile, Zach is still attending dances, leading prayer and song circles, ironic, I know. Sometimes just sitting and staring at the crowd, with a darkness in his eyes that I can't unsee.
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I want to do something, but I know confronting him personally is dangerous. He knows exactly who he's harmed, so if word gets out, he'll know someone talked. Narcissistic abusers don't own their actions. They retaliate, twist the story, play the victim. My men's group has my back if needed, but I need a real strategy. Filing restraining orders seems like an easy first step.
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If members of our community take legal action, the event organizers will be forced to comply. His victims could also press charges, but ideally I want him to face actual consequences and take accountability.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yeah, what more consequences could you ask for than that?
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How do I move forward in a way that keeps my friends safe, holds this man accountable, and ensures that he cannot manipulate his way out of it? Signed, plotting some next steps to correct the defects of this dark subject.
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
And there's a first big thing he's doing. That's very much like you, right?
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1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
As for making sure that he can't manipulate his way out of it, that's tough. I'm not sure how much control you really have over that. Given what you've told us about him, I'm sure he's going to try. It's not really your concern, though. Your concern is to help keep your community safe and empower these victims to handle this the way that they want.
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Make it clear to the people organizing these events that this guy is dangerous and that they do need to take this seriously. The best way to prevent him from manipulating his way out of this is to arm the organizers and potentially the police and the courts if you guys decide to go that route. with as much solid and compelling information as possible.
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I mean, that's really the most important thing. Beyond that, I'm just not sure how much you can control about this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1141: Dark Pillar of Community Abuses with Immunity | Feedback Friday
So that's really funny.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
You are not your stuff.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Well, same. But you're right. You are not your stuff. You are not your house. You're not your money, your body, your mind and your heart. That's what you have and the relationships you have. And that's ultimately it.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
You don't get called a PE teacher in the 1980s very often?
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The lessons of this fire, politically, psychologically, spiritually, what I think it might be here to teach us are so important. And so I'm just asking myself, like, how do I make sure I do that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Well, right. I mean, otherwise, why do these things happen? You know, why do we experience loss? Why do we go through suffering? Why do things break down? Look, I'm with you. I feel uneasy talking about this when it wasn't my house that burned down. I would probably be falling apart if this happened to me and who knows what lessons I would be taking away if this were my life.
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But just watching it happen to people I know is opening my eyes to something that I've just been fortunate enough to not have to confront, but also in a weird way. And I hope this makes sense. But I also weirdly feel fortunate to be seeing it clearly now for the first time, because I understand that a disaster like this could easily happen to me. It could happen to any of us.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And in fact, it looks like it might be happening more and more. So it seems to me that we ignore that illusion at our own peril. So for my part, I just don't want to forget. And yeah, thank you for wanting to talk about it today. It helps me to say this out loud and make it real for myself. In an ideal world, I would like to keep this experience alive when things go back to normal so that
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I can live with more perspective, more gratitude, more care. And I know it's not easy, but I'd like to do it. And if we can't do that, I do worry that we will have missed something really important from this experience.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
It's called hot yoga.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, 60 years ago, when my cousin was a child, she was sexually assaulted by her stepfather. At the time, her mother disregarded the incident, and it was never discussed until the stepfather's death. Fast forward 20 years.
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My cousin had a three-year-old daughter, let's call her Sarah, who, during an emergency, was being watched by her uncle, let's call him Frank, who's my cousin's stepbrother and the son of her abuser. There was an incident of sexual assault.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Yes, 60 years ago.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I'm not sure it's fair to say that the children of abusers are always going to be abusers themselves, so maybe it didn't even occur to the mom.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yeah, no, it's a fair question. I can't even imagine what Sarah's mom must have felt when she found out. This is like devastating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
And it's the child of the person, to your point, who did it to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
I was wondering about that, too. That can't be a coincidence. We should circle back to that.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
So she goes on. My cousin immediately recognized something was wrong and put the pieces together. She confronted her brother, and he denied everything. She then confronted her mother, who denied it could possibly be true.
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Ridiculous. That denial continued for over 10 years. My cousin never allowed any contact between Frank and Sarah after that, but they would be together at family gatherings.
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No contact except for all the family parties and dinners and lunches. Yeah, I mean, the one-on-ones, but yeah, so much going on here already. So she goes on. At the time, a counselor they saw discouraged counseling because, quote, memories were not formed at that age, unquote. And, quote, they didn't want to put something in her head.
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Yeah, that's the one that's about a mile, mile and a half from me.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I guess it's hard with children. Maybe it's hard to know what's there, and you don't want to provoke them or insert a memory that might... I don't... You don't want to insert a memory, but there's still trauma there, so it doesn't matter if she remembers it or not.
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And I think memories do get formed at early ages. I think we know that now, so... Anyway, she goes on. Then, ten years later, as an adult, Frank confessed to what he did. He had gone through counseling and soul searching and admitted everything the mother had suspected. He justified it as pubescent curiosity more than assault.
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My aunt, his mother, basically told her daughter and granddaughter, who's now a teenager, that it was their responsibility to forgive and move on. What's done is done. They're a religious family and taught to forgive.
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40 years later, Sarah is a beautiful, intelligent, talented, athletic, and successful adult with an advanced degree. She's deeply spiritual and has many friends. But she's never been able to trust men enough to have a lasting relationship. All she ever wanted was to become a wife and a mother, and she's had many suitors. But when a relationship got to a certain point, she couldn't advance.
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To some degree, her life was destroyed by that incident. So sad. I am so angry. Meanwhile, Frank is extremely successful and extremely well-off. When asked by his sister, Sarah's mother, if he would help pay for some ongoing counseling for his niece, his response was, she should get over it. That was a long time ago.
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He's unwilling to help her in any way, but he still feels he should be openly accepted and highly regarded by the family for his success. He flaunts his money and power quite a bit. To complicate matters, he has a daughter who was involved in drugs and child endangerment. That woman's daughter, Frank's five-year-old granddaughter, was taken away from her by the courts.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Frank begged his nephews and his niece, Sarah's sister, to foster his grandchild so he could continue to have a relationship with her.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Yeah, yeah. We'd only be speculating, but I guess that's on the table.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Is that an inappropriate reaction to this? I don't know. Let's see how this letter plays out and then we'll get to that. Sarah's sister prayed about it and agreed to foster and potentially adopt his grandchild. As it turns out, this little girl now has all sorts of behavioral issues and caring for her is very stressful. This has also caused a lot of stress for Sarah.
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After going through counseling, she's drawn clear boundaries and said she will not be anywhere near this guy for any reason. But any family gatherings will now include Frank and this challenging granddaughter.
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It seems ridiculous that money would solve anything, but it's painful for the family to see this guy traveling around the world, living his best life, and posting his braggy pictures while they're suffering. If he were truly sorry, he would be offering to help the niece he assaulted. He would ask Sarah for forgiveness and wait for her to work through the healing process without pressure.
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And he would provide back pay to his sister for Sarah's counseling, which has cost tens of thousands of dollars, as well as financially help the niece who's taking care of his granddaughter. Wow, I'm just realizing, so he is not financially supporting the niece who agreed to foster and potentially adopt his granddaughter, the one he wanted to stay close with.
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While it doesn't feel right to sue him for something he did when he was a child, and while a lawsuit could be seen as blackmail to keep the secret in the family... It certainly would help them pick up the pieces and rebuild their lives. I also feel it would be empowering to come forward and face the perpetrator and hold him accountable. But Frank is a very entitled and narcissistic person.
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Should Sarah's parents and siblings stand with her and shun the uncle until she's able to work through this, decide she can forgive him, and move on? Should my cousin, Sarah's mother, threaten to sue Frank for the therapy expenses over the years? Can Sarah sue him for damages 40 plus years later? Signed, looking to redress the distress caused by this hot mess.
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When some in the family suppress, the abuser flaunts his success, and I confess that I'm done trying to quiesce. Wow, damn, you went ham on that one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
They do. And how it can ricochet through a family and echo in a lot of people's lives. It's really disturbing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
This guy is horrible. Dark Jordan justice being meted out here. Yeah, it is a very troubling way to respond to something like this in a family. It's also insult on top of injury.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Sure. So first of all, Corbyn had a similar reaction to Jordan a moment ago. He felt that your family's commitment to silence, or at least your grandmother's commitment to silence, is destroying the family. We talk about this a lot on the show, how silence is just so isolating for a victim. Corbyn believes that it really hurts victims and it only ends up empowering their abusers.
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Yeah, I'm okay. I'm okay, bud. Thank you. It's been probably the weirdest week in LA, as far as I can remember. Things are... Yeah, they're very scary. It is apocalyptic. It is... Just, it's just a lot of trite cliches, you know, like no words. It's just, yeah, the fires do not affect me directly. I'm okay. But everyone here is deeply shaken by what happened in the Palisades and Altadena.
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So to quote him again here, This family is cloaking silence under the more religious sounding demand that victims forgive and forget, but that doesn't make it anything other than what it is.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
And that's even more invalidating and more isolating for the victim.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
It's very upsetting. I think when someone like the grandmother says that they need to just forgive, what she's really saying is, I need everyone to stop talking about this because it's so distressing to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Hard to say, but true forgiveness, if that's even on the table here, that is a process, probably a very long and complicated process. And it's the victim's process. And also it's a personal process. It's not something that somebody from the outside gets to order everyone else to do because they can't tolerate the anxiety and the shame of knowing that this happened in their family.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Okay, so Corbin wanted to respectfully suggest that you and your family figure out some ways to break the silence. That doesn't necessarily mean going and shouting this from the rooftops or going and giving a TED talk about abuse or whatever. You're welcome to, we all love a good TED talk, but Healing doesn't require something like that.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Corbin said that he's seen countless sexual abuse victims begin by sharing their stories with family, with friends, with people close to them, and then work up to sharing it in wider circles after that.
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In his experience, the simple act of owning what happened to them, telling other people about it when they're ready, of course, that allows them to rewrite the script of their experience to some degree, and often to a large degree, because it really does transmute the original experience.
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maybe a little but often a lot and it allows victims to reclaim what happened to them find new meaning in it cut through the stigma the isolation it is very powerful it turns a victim into a survivor into a survivor exactly corbin also said that some people go even further and become advocates for other victims which is another way to make meaning and to heal so this could be as simple as sarin or mom choosing to speak up if that's what they want to do of course it's their choice
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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and then empowering their family members to take steps to better protect their loved ones and their little ones from abuse in this family literally breaking this cycle in their family by speaking up totally corbin said that he has seen this process work countless times he also said that he knows trauma doesn't have a one-size-fits-all solution the burden of healing this family should not fall just on sarah and her mom but he was very clear about his stance on all of this the silence has to end
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Corbin shared one more really interesting thing with us, which was one of the things that you seem extremely frustrated about, and understandably so, is that Sarah's uncle seems to be thriving while Sarah has struggled to some degree in her life, especially in her love life. You also seem to be frustrated that Frank has this kind of untouchable image in the
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And look, those are totally fair responses. Corbin said that he was frustrated on all of your behalf for the very same reasons. But here's the thing. Up until now, Sarah's uncle and this grandmother have been able to control the narrative and keep up the image of a healthy, well-functioning family, right? That's given them a degree of control here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And in Corbin's view, that control is largely unassailable because they won't admit to their faults and they won't acknowledge what really happened fully. And they won't take any responsibility for what they've done. In Corbin's opinion, they will never change in that regard. And going to court is not going to change anything in that regard either.
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But he wanted you to know that that doesn't mean that Sarah's mom or you, that any of you guys have to relinquish all the control in this situation to Frank. You guys control how you perceive the grandmother. You guys control how and when and where you guys tell your own stories, which stories you lead with. Most importantly, Corbin wanted you to know, you control your own characters.
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Sarah and Sarah's mom, they sound like really good people. And you're clearly a very caring, very empathetic person. That is huge. Meanwhile, Frank is this, look, let's be honest, narcissistic guy who did some terrible things and... also appears to be doing some terrible things in a few areas of his life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And trust me, the horrendous stuff that he's done aside, just having this personality is very stressful and it is its own form of punishment in a way. So in the end, Corbin's feeling was that in one huge way, you guys have kind of already won.
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I completely agree with that. I think we need to talk about just one more thing here, Jordan, and going back to your response while I was reading the letter. And look, this is delicate and it's very complicated. And honestly, I wish we didn't have to talk about this, but I don't think it would be fair not to. I feel that the portrait we're getting of Frank here is actually complicated.
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Let's remember that there's a world where this guy might've been abused by his father. And that might be why he then abused somebody else at a young age too, right? When he was young, when he might not have fully understood what he was doing and how it would impact another person. And then 10 years later, as an adult, presumably, Frank confessed to what he did. He went through counseling.
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No one did. It's insane. The Palisades, for anyone who doesn't know, is a really beautiful neighborhood. It's just north of Santa Monica. It's super charming and it's like tucked into the hills. And now it's just It's gone. It's just steel and ash, dude. It looks like the Donbas region of Ukraine or something. It is... It's extremely eerie.
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He had this soul searching. He admitted everything that the mother had suspected. Now, he justified it as pubescent curiosity more than assault. It's debatable exactly what that was, but let's just remember that for all of this guy's faults, He did this work to some degree and he came out saying, I confess that I did this thing and I acknowledge it. That is no small thing to admit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And I know it sounds weird to say, but that must have taken some courage and vulnerability on his part. It's an awful thing to own up to doing, right? He's also saying that it wasn't abuse, it was this pubescent curiosity, and we can't possibly know if that's actually true. That might be exactly what it was.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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We've talked to Brad Watts a bunch about this kind of abuse and how children sometimes work things out, and that's in a different category from a textbook pedophile. This might also be the version of the story that Frank is telling in order to live with it and to keep the family on his side and keep the worst part of this trauma buried. At the same time, it's also true
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that he has not taken all the steps he could to make this right. For example, like paying for Sarah's therapy. Although then if it's true that he was a victim as well, and this abuse was of a different category, maybe in his mind, he doesn't owe Sarah that. I don't know. I'm not saying I agree with this argument, but let's just at least appreciate that is an argument he could make.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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So all of this complicates the picture of Frank for me. I'm not letting him off the hook. I'm not saying he's a good guy. I'm not saying that this family doesn't have to go through a massive reckoning about what happened. I'm very disturbed by a number of facts in this guy's life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But as our friend here considers the remedies for this abuse, I do think it's important to open the aperture here a little bit more and appreciate that this particular story that we're hearing is It has a lot of nuances and some ambiguity.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And there are a lot of different angles here that really do complicate the question of who is culpable and how culpable are they and who ultimately bears responsibility for what happened and how do they make that right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yeah, wow, that's a very good point. And honestly, dude, it's confusing. I'm unsure whether to hold him accountable for all of this or to just feel sorry for him or both. I really don't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Okay, next up. Heya boys, I've had my work from home job for a year now, and recently a decision was made in my company that will affect my day-to-day work in a moderate to high manner permanently. I'll be up for a review next month, and I know that my supervisor will ask me about this protocol change and how it's affected my work.
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I personally think this change is asinine, and I will have to work a little harder to be less productive. But since this is not my supervisor's decision, I'm not sure how I would answer. How can I resist complaining about how dumb this is? Can I plead the fifth? What is the most professional way to weasel out when the alternative is to likely regret being honest?
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Signed, in a bind about speaking my mind because I might be unkind and malign the blind minds who designed this unstreamlined time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It just tumbled out that way. I don't know. Sometimes that happens just there.
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So my cousin Cece and Bob live there. Their house is gone. My friend Patty, she and her family had a house on the beach in Malibu. That's gone. My therapist lost her house. One of my colleagues lost two homes in the Palisades. A couple friends of mine, their house was saved by the firefighters, but it's unlivable and their neighborhood is like decimated. It is devastating. There are no words.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yeah, that is a really good point. I totally agree. And as for regretting being honest, I don't think you'll regret it as much if you prepare for this meeting in the way that Jordan just laid out and also approach this as a creative problem to be solved rather than just like a flaw to be pointed out. But if you're worried about that,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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then I would really think through this conversation, think through the implications of speaking up. Maybe run it by a couple of peers, a couple of colleagues you trust. Just get their opinion. Would this land me in hot water or would this be welcome? Get clear with yourself on what specifically would make you regret speaking up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Because my hunch is that being honest at work in general is probably a little daunting for you, as it is for all of us. And this kind of proleptic regret that you feel is probably designed to keep you safe by making you want to avoid the conversation in the first place. Hold up. Proleptic?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Sorry, gay BSATs over here going ham. Proleptic means like treating a future event as if it's already happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
It's weird. She's projecting herself into a future where she wishes that she didn't speak up, which might give her a reason to not speak up when speaking up might be exactly the right thing to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
she doesn't want to because it's a little scary it's uncomfortable so my theory is that this proleptic regret is designed to protect her by letting her off the hook but i think the solution is first of all prepare well and second trust yourself enough to say hey i know enough to know that this is not actually the best way of doing things and i might have a better way rather than regretting that you pointed out something that is objectively true which is not a crime
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especially if you do it in the helpful spirit that Jordan was just describing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I can't even imagine what this must be like for people who have lost their homes and also not just the people. All of the animals who are affected by these fires, you know, they're displaced and hurt and confused. Honestly, that I have a hard time sitting with and thinking about because it's so sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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The fact that our friend here is so anxious about telling the truth to somebody who really probably doesn't even have a stake in is probably going to be like, yeah, I also think it's dumb, but we just have to deal with it. That tells me that there's probably something deeper to this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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You never know. But then if you don't speak up at all, then you just get angry and bitter. And then you're like, this place doesn't want to change, but you're not giving them the chance to change by speaking up. Exactly.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Dear Jordan and Gabe, three years ago, my brother and his wife had a beautiful baby girl. We'll call her Mary. Mary is the light of my life. She's my first and only blood-related niece and my parents' only grandchild.
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Oh, look at you. Nicely done.
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Yeah, it's like a John Nash drawing on the window.
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
They're like, sir, this test is on a computer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Wait, so you just murdered the math section of the GRE by accident? Absolutely. And MIT was like, we want you?
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
That's too funny, dude. How did that happen?
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1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
That is hilarious. Takes GRE as a backup to not getting into law school, ends up in the quantum physics program at MIT.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
But you didn't take them up on this, right?
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Great. Thank you for that. I'm not going to get a bunch of emails from people in Boston who are famously passionate about their city. Yes. Yelling at us for hating on their objectively charming town. So I appreciate that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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What a weird diversion that was. OK, so we got into from proleptic to your almost MIT career. OK, let's get back to Mary's. The letter goes on. But since the day Mary was born, my brother has used my niece as a weapon against us, keeping her from us when we've upset him and only allowing us to see her when he feels like it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Over the years, he's gotten upset with my mother and me saying we are too obsessed with Mary and that if we wanted to see her so badly, we should have our own kid. That is such a weird thing to say.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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He gets mad when we want to see her more than once a month, even though he lives five minutes down the street from me and she absolutely adores my husband and me. Last year, my brother got mad because I only ever reach out to him to visit Mary and I never ask about him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But before Mary was born, we never really had a close relationship as he's eight years older than me and he went to jail when I was 10. Okay, so he went to jail at 18. That might explain a few things. For three months after this fight, he kept Mary from me, even threatening to keep her from my mom if she allowed me to see her. It absolutely broke me.
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Over time, I was allowed to see her, but only at birthdays and holidays, and now I can see her only when he allows. I'm a good and kind person. I own my own business, have a beautiful and loving marriage, and love Mary like she's my own. But he restricts her visits with me as though I were a criminal or a bad influence.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I've tried communicating about this with him, but he's extremely dismissive and insensitive to my feelings, reminding me that Mary is his kid and he gets to choose who she can and can't see. Is there any way forward with this relationship? Do I just have to deal with the heartache of missing Mary and only getting to see her once in a while?
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Or am I asking too much by trying to see her on a more frequent basis? Signed, trying to make peace and circumvent the police stopping me from seeing my niece when my love for her will only increase.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
Dark Jordan connecting up the dots across questions. That was weird and logistical and very improbable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Right. This is the QAnon sister who was a victim of abuse and then claimed that her sister had abused her too emotionally since they were children.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It's really interesting. I'm sitting here wondering what the brother's version of this story would be. His main grievance seems to be that our friend here only reaches out to visit his daughter if she never asks about him, which, to be fair, maybe that is a little bit hurtful on some level.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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No, so clearly he's a difficult character. And yeah, he has a criminal history, which, look, that doesn't automatically mean he's some kind of monster or that he doesn't deserve some love and interest from his sister. But who knows? He might, in fact, be a shady dude, and he might have other qualities related to his past that also make their relationship tough. Plus there's an eight year age gap.
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That's huge. Whatever the reasons, they have a fraught relationship. It's hard to be close. It's hard to talk about why they're not close. And according to her, that's his fault. She's the one who's trying and he's dismissive and insensitive and he's pulling the whole like, well, she's my kid card. He gets to choose who she can and cannot see.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But what I'm getting at is it still might be helpful for her to consider how her brother views the situation, why he feels so slighted, even if his reasons are ultimately irrational or unfair. Maybe she just needs to say to him, look, I hear you that I have made you feel unappreciated. I hear that you feel I care more about Mary than I care about you. That was never my intention.
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If we can have a closer relationship, I would like that. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on how we can work on that. But in the meantime, I would really love to be able to be a great aunt to marry and be a better sister to you without feeling like you're keeping her from me for reasons that I don't fully understand.
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There are two ways to go about this strategy. One is cynically and just say the things that you think he needs to hear in order to soften up and let you see her. And then there's another version where maybe you really do give that a go and see if this relationship could improve.
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Clearly playing him like a frigging fiddle, dude. I know she's tried this, but maybe she needs to go a little further. Maybe that would give her a way to understand her brother, acknowledge her brother in a way that makes him feel heard, even if he cannot return the favor. And maybe that's how she makes progress with him. Maybe that's how she stays close with Mary.
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Yeah, it is biblical. It's very primitive. My sense is that a lot of people in LA, at least the ones on the west side where I live, we've kind of been woken up by this fire in a really interesting way, at least for the moment. Obviously, a natural disaster or a tragedy always shocks people. It puts things in perspective. It makes you realize what matters most and all of that.
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But a lot of us live in a very happy bubble most of the time. You know, it's so peaceful, it's comfortable, we feel secure. Look, our city has tons of problems, clearly, but in the decent parts of town, it functions more or less okay. We're all going to work, we're going to the gym, we're going to the beach or whatever.
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Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a senior software engineer working for a small startup in London. And if all goes to plan, we'll soon be opening a new office near my hometown. I'm the only member of the team in this area. And I'd like to thank my local presence and familiarity with the area added a little sprinkle of appeal to an already great business decision.
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The longer-term plan is to scale up this office and hire more engineers to help build our product. As you can imagine, this is a massive opportunity for me, and I know I'd regret it forever if I didn't try to make the most of it.
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I've signed up for some local networking events and breakfasts, but here's where I'm struggling. I don't feel worthy of being at these events. They're open to everyone to attend, but as I'm not a CTO, CEO, investor, or founder, I can't help but wonder, why would anyone there want to meet me? I don't feel like I have anything valuable to offer in return.
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It's just we're lost in how lovely it is to live in Los Angeles a lot of the time. But this fire is laying bare some very disturbing facts.
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My gut tells me that these are the rooms I need to be in to grow my network. The connections I make could be invaluable. But I don't want to approach this too selfishly. I love to feel like I'm offering something meaningful as well. Am I thinking about this too transactionally? How do you build connections when you feel like you're starting on the back foot or have little to offer?
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Signed in the throes of feeling like I have to pose, but wanting to grow in the way that I rub elbows.
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And not just about how our city is run, which is going to be a huge conversation, not just about, you know, why these natural disasters are increasingly common, which is a whole other conversation, but really about, you know, how fragile and vulnerable our lives actually are.
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Man, that is a great story. That perfectly captures this principle that you're trying to, yeah.
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No, not at all. I mean, dude, just wrap your head around this. Like one second, you're chilling in your house. Everything's fine. It's a beautiful day. You know, you paid your fire insurance that month or whatever. And a few hours later, you're ditching your car on the side of the road and literally running down the highway.
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With your cat or your child in one arm and a duffel bag with a couple outfits in the other because the fire is moving toward you so fast that you will die if you sit in traffic. And then a few hours after that, everything you own, your home, everything is gone.
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I don't know. I do think that most people who have been through this appreciate a check-in, so don't be afraid to do that. But The fire just takes whatever it wants. It doesn't care about your pool or your career or your insurance policy or whatever. You are just powerless.
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I know. There are crazy stories of people trying to drive away, and then they look over, and all of a sudden there's fire next to their car, and there are policemen banging on their windows, yelling at them, just get out, run, just run. They had to run. Oh, man.
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Which has been so sweet, and I cannot tell you guys how much I appreciate that. Thank you so much for your DMs and your emails. They really, really, really mean a lot to me. I'm okay. I'm in my apartment. I'm good. Uh, the air is not good.
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Yeah. Seriously.
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Are you stuck in a biblical conflagration? Um, no, but it's, it's creepy, man. There's ash raining down. I haven't been outside very much cause I don't want to breathe the air, but I'm okay. I'm okay. Thank you. I'm just heartbroken, you know?
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You know, I am really not very educated about that stuff. I'm starting to read more, which I've This whole thing is also making me rethink what I consume and how I need to educate myself about LA if I'm going to live here.
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But yeah, that's a really interesting debate that's playing out right now because people are going back and forth on whether they need to relax the restrictions around rebuilding so that people can rebuild their homes and get their neighborhoods back and hopefully do it quickly. There's another camp that's saying, no, we need to make these restrictions even more stringent.
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We need to raise the standards so that if there's ever a fire again, we can build in a way that doesn't cause as much destruction. I don't know what the answer is, but that is one thing people are debating hotly at the moment. So yeah, the complexity of this problem is staggering and the insurance piece of this is going to be huge. That is a hot mess.
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The state is already getting involved in all that. I think they are going to rebuild at least the Palisades as quickly as possible because the city can't have Kharkiv right next to Malibu. It's just not going to happen. I did see that they already have construction equipment arriving there, which is encouraging, I guess, but it is going to be a very, very long road back. I mean, I'm afraid so.
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It was such a strange moment. I was like, is she freezing up because she doesn't want to play this game with the reporters? Or is she so freaked out about what's happening? She's just dissociated.
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I'm still wrapping my head around it, to be honest. It is hard to know what conclusions to draw, frankly, but. I can say that these fires are monumental. And they're monumental not just for LA, but I think for our planet, for our civilization. Again, I'm not educated enough to know precisely why they happen or what to do about them or what the solution looks like.
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But the planet is obviously speaking to us in some way that we have to at least try to understand. I don't think that's a controversial statement. And obviously a lot of good people are trying to understand it, but this week has made me sit up and pay attention to how we take care of this land that we live on because it is everything.
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This was yesterday, right?
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No, but there's also another argument to be made for the fact that you might be able to prepare perfectly and make sure there's enough water and all the right resources, and it still might not be enough to contend with what seem to be the effects of climate change in major cities.
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But I do think all of this is going to affect the way people vote, the way people donate, the way they make plans, at least I hope it will. But really, today, while we talk, what I'm most in touch with is just this feeling of
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
powerlessness in the face of events like this you know things get really bad sometimes and there's just no choice but to surrender to them which is something we talk about on feedback friday all the time and then do whatever you can it's like you said a moment ago we are so vulnerable you know and we don't know it or we don't want to admit it because it's terrifying
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
But it is so obvious this week that we operate, most of us, including me, under this illusion of control. But that is just denial, right? And it takes a tragedy, whether it's a natural disaster or a terror attack or an accident, whatever it is, to puncture that illusion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
It is very profound. And that's the flip side of the pain that people here are in right now. Everybody is being so kind. I mean, everywhere I go, people are being uncharacteristically gentle, respectful, like people are looking each other in the eye. you know, more, they're asking how they're, you know, how are you? What are you, were you affected? Are you okay?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
There's people are speaking more softly, which is interesting. They're driving a little bit more slowly. They're volunteering and donating, which is very, very touching to see, but it is this weird twin feeling of like this pit in your stomach, you know, anxiety and anger and deep sadness. And then this feeling of surrender and connection and love. And they're like right on top of each other.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
That's my experience anyway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1104: Rich Abuser Admits Crime But Won't Spare a Dime | Feedback Friday
I know, I know. I was thinking about that too. I'm pretty sad about how quickly people are going to forget about all this and move on. I really want to try to hang on to this renewed awareness of how the world works and what really matters because the other way doesn't feel right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yes. And as for how to talk to him when he accuses you, I really like your rule about only talking to him when he's sober. Although I can't tell how successful that's been. You said you tried. I'm not sure if that means you tried and then gave up because it wasn't doable. I also appreciate, though, that you're trying to listen without judgment. You're not just like, hey, stop it, Adam.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
You're crazy or whatever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yeah, come on. He is a little crazy. That's true. This is not reasonable behavior, and it's okay to say that. Okay, fair point. But part of me is also going... Are you being clear enough with him that he's out of control without calling him crazy? Are you giving him too much latitude? This is a delicate line to walk. But beyond that, what you guys really need to talk about is this deeper stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Why he's using in the first place. Why he can't seem to stop. Where this fear and paranoia come from. Why you respond the way you do. What trusting you brings up for him. What his chaos is doing to you. Otherwise, You're just going to be playing out the same script over and over again. And obviously, that's only possible when he's somewhat calm.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
When he's upset, I would not try to have this conversation. I probably would not even engage, honestly. And maybe you say, look, I can see that you're worked up right now. I can understand why. cocaine, other stuff too. Why don't we take a little time to breathe?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And we'll talk about this when we calm down because fighting back or trying to have a deep conversation when he's activated and potentially intoxicated, that's probably only going to make things worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Honestly, I just don't see your relationship improving until he gets sober. He clearly can't kick this addiction on his own and getting cold turkey. Look, some people do it and more power to them. It's incredible, but it's hard at a minimum. I think he needs to be working some kind of program, whether it's a 12 step program or a smart meeting or whatever it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And if he can get into a detox and or a rehab center, inpatient, outpatient, whatever it is, even better. I don't know what the specific resources are in your area, but there are almost always free services. There are sliding scale services. There are services covered by insurance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
If Adam can fund a cocaine habit and apparently afford the planes, trains, and automobiles to go from seasonal job to seasonal job, I think he can probably find a way to afford three-day, a five-day detox to start. When he's ready to find help, there is a way to get it. I'm not saying it's going to be a walk in the park, but when you're truly ready to make a change, things do become doable.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The question is, though, is he truly ready? My sense is no. No, he's not, based on what we're hearing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And his defenses, man, they are strong. It's possible that he'll never hit it. Or if he does, it's going to be really bad and he won't know how to respond to it. I guess I just really want you to understand this and I know it's hard to take in, but this is so essential. Adam is in charge of his recovery. He's in charge of his mental health. He's in charge of the trajectory of his life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
You can help him. You can support him. You can love him, but you cannot save this guy on your own and nothing you do will make a lasting impact until he is ready, at least somewhat to confront this stuff, to confront himself. So the real question of your letter, in my opinion, isn't so much, what more can I do to help?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But why am I so invested in saving this person who doesn't seem to want to accept my help? Why am I trying so hard to help? And at what point do I stop? Because yes, Adam is wrestling with a serious addiction, but I think you're wrestling with a serious addiction too. And it's kind of an addiction to Adam and to the life that you really want to have with him. If you just work hard enough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
You just discovered it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
This is kind of one of the main ideas of Al-Anon. Al-Anon, if you don't know, is a support group for friends and family of addicts. And there's this idea that they talk about a lot, that if you're in a relationship, whether it's a friendship or romantic relationship with an addict, then your behavior has also become compulsive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And you're emotionally dependent on the addict's choices, and that you're often very enmeshed with the addict. And so much of your identity and your experience of life is shaped by their illness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I would really check out an Al-Anon meeting or a Nar-Anon meeting. It's the same basic idea. I think this meeting, even if you go to one, two, three meetings, you'll get some incredible stuff out of them. And it could be a revelation for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
All right, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a manager at a plant in the US and I've recently been put on a team that will be consolidating production and reducing the workforce by 50%. This isn't a huge surprise as we can see the workload slowing down and we're building equipment in Asia where we sell over 80% of our product.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The problem is that we had a record year, $15 million over plan, the largest year our company has ever had. We just got off of a leadership meeting where they touted this and told us to take this information back to our team. I can see other people on the consolidation team pretending as if nothing bad is coming, even lying or dodging questions that get asked about our site.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I've signed a confidentiality agreement, so I have to keep quiet. Of course, I'll follow the agreement, this is my job first, and bringing home a paycheck is key. But when all this goes down, people will know that I was part of this team and realize the shadiness of my last two to three months.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I've worked so hard to gain the trust and respect of my team and others in the organization, and I feel that'll be crushed. It's eating me up inside. How do I navigate this, knowing the fate of many people I care about? How do I look people in the eye when they ask me tough questions? Signed, trying not to drown when I can't share the lowdown, because heavy is the head that wears the crown.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I like that. The script, not the body slamming everybody without warning. And if some of his employees read between the lines of what he's saying, or this is interesting because he said that it's very clear that 80% of their business is in Asia and certain trends are moving in that direction. So they should also maybe be doing some of their own math.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And that's an interesting question, like which employees... figure out how do the dots connect, but also if they pick up on some subtext and this little script that you just shared, which is also kind of a skill, I think he's still okay. And then he might also help them without doing anything wrong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yeah, exactly. It is a delicate dance, though, isn't it? Because there's a version of that script that, you know, he delivers with a wink and a nod. And that wink and a nod could end up being the same as saying, yeah, half of you are screwed. I don't know which half. So start updating your LinkedIn profiles.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And when these layoffs do go down, you can treat them well, you know, compassionately. And you can communicate this decision in a way that's kind. And you can look for ways to help them land on their feet. All of that is totally under your control.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
All right, what's next? Dear handsome boy number one and Captain Hot Yoga. I have a lifelong best friend who's going through the worst luck I have ever seen. Over the last few years, I've helped them through a series of medical, mental, family, and financial crises, 90% of which are legitimately beyond their control. I'm not their only support, but I am a significant part of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Whenever one of these crises happens, it becomes a life or death situation, which is stressful, scary, upsetting, and exhausting. My nervous system gets completely shot, and over the years, I don't feel like I've gotten even close to recuperating between issues. The stress level feels paralyzing even when these issues aren't actually my problems to solve.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But I'm not the type of friend to cut and run when things get tough. This friend really needs their people right now, and if they did kill themselves because of a crisis I didn't try and help them with, well, the toll of that would be astronomical. I know everyone says, oh, set boundaries, and they're not your responsibility, and you gotta look out for yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I don't disagree, but the advice I always get is so black and white. Basically, leave your friend to solve their own problems, as if that's a good outcome for anyone. How do I keep helping my friend through the toughest time in their life, without it breaking me too? Signed, filling my chalice, without being callous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yes, including how they rely on the people around them, people like you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
It's also about adjusting those boundaries over time and always revisiting them. Dr. Margolis is really big on this. She's taught me a lot about this aspect of boundaries. With some people, in some circumstances, at certain moments of your life, you might get super involved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
With other people, in different circumstances, when you maybe don't have as much time or energy or they respond in a way that changes things, maybe you don't get as involved. Or your involvement changes depending on the quality of the relationship, the nature of the challenge they're going through, what this person is expecting of you. There's no one template here, but it can evolve over time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And that's part of what is confusing about boundaries. But that is also what makes them effective, that they can change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yes. One of the best things I've learned about boundaries over the years, I think I've shared this on the show before, boundaries, when they're handled well... are actually what allow us to be close with people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And that is what she struggles with. Like she said, if this friend, for example, killed themselves because she didn't try and help them, the toll would be astronomical. And I'm so glad she included that word in her letter because she's already on to the problem here. What she is doing for this friend and the stakes of not playing this role for this person are so high.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Now she's responsible not just for solving this person's problems, but for literally keeping them alive.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The first thing you have to do, I think, is trace this back to its roots. I can almost guarantee that our friend here played a crucial role in her family system in some way. propping up a parent, taking care of a sibling, managing a chaotic home, something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
We tend to learn these things very early on, and then we carry them forward for so many reasons, because it's familiar, because it's gratifying, because it just is too distressing to think about not playing that role in helping other people. I think we talked about this with Adam, right? Sometimes it can secure love or closeness, or it gives us a sense of being needed, powerful, whatever it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I think it's usually a handful of common reasons, but everybody's story is unique. Again, so hard to diagnose on a podcast, even harder to heal. But just seeing the roots of this impulse and where this message came from, that is half the battle. Because once you go, oh, I had to prop up dad my whole childhood. Now I'm locating dad in this person now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I'm over here keeping my buddy Ethan sober and bailing out my friend Jessica for the eighth time and... whatever it is, rewriting my boyfriend's resume for him because he refuses to do it himself. When you see that clearly, it is a lot harder to want to play that role unconsciously. Right. You're at least more aware of it, which makes a big difference. All the difference in the world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And after that, it's about just slowly trying things in a new way and rewriting the rules of those relationships. And that really means bearing the discomfort of not stepping in and saving someone the way you used to. In your case,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
That will require you to sit with some feelings, I think probably guilt and probably sadness, that you're not showing up for this person the way that you used to, which is very normal. It might also mean sitting with the feeling that, you know, you might be mean or selfish, which to be clear, you are not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But when you define being a good friend or a good person as sacrificing yourself to save somebody over and over again, anything less than that can feel cruel. It's not, but it feels that way. And you have to be willing to sit with that feeling in order to find out that it's not really the case.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But until we're willing to endure that basic distress, we'll never know what's on the other side or why it's there or whether there might be a better way to partner with your friends to help them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yeah. I also think sometimes that when we imagine that somebody might do something really extreme, if we're not there to save them, I'm speculating a little bit, but I do have a hunch that maybe that can be a way to inflate our importance in their life. If I am so crucial to this person that if I'm not there, they are going to do this terrible thing. And they might not actually do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
They might struggle, they might hurt, but it doesn't mean that the stakes are life and death. She said that her friend goes to that place when they're in a crisis. Everything is life or death, but she's kind of doing that too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I also thought it was interesting when you said that having boundaries means leaving a friend to solve their own problems as if that's a good outcome for anyone. I would argue that it actually is a good outcome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
And if it doesn't look like a good outcome, you know, if your friend completely drowns when you pull back or you suffer disproportionately, that is not a sign that the boundary is wrong, but that you guys are adapting to a new way of being and relating to each other, which I would argue is probably a healthier way and will hopefully lead your friend to taking better care of themselves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I work for a large international company. My background is in operations and HR, but I was recently asked to lead a small team within the marketing department that handled non-employee contracts. I told the leader that I didn't have experience with contract or vendor management, although I did understand the nuance of contractors from an HR perspective.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I was told that the team was from a procurement background and would handle that side of the work, and my role was more around team management and helping the department change its strategy around contractor usage. I took the job and was successful at working with the team to make changes to the contractor program. Then my company was hit with a large layoff and restructuring.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Because of the smaller team size, I now directly manage contracts and vendor relationships. I'm also expected to do work similar to the other procurement managers, such as creating negotiation and cost-saving strategies, whereas before, I focused on organizational change and reducing legal risk. I feel so out of my depth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Procurement is a very different profession with its own lingo, skillset, and perspective. I'm trying to learn, but my workload has massively increased, and I'm struggling to keep up. It feels like I'm trying to acquire a whole career's worth of knowledge and experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I'm also worried about asking too many questions and potentially getting fired, though I fear that might happen anyway if I can't achieve the things that this department wants. I've put out feelers with my network for a new job, but my husband is currently unemployed, so it feels important to try to make this job work, at least until he's stable again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
What should I do to make this new role manageable? What would you do if you found yourself as a genuine imposter? Signed, avoiding missteps and protecting my respect when I am totally out of my depth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Hi Jordan and Gabe. I met my boyfriend Adam almost a year ago at work. We clicked straight away, but it took four months before our relationship developed into something romantic. Adam is a bit of a nomad. He works seasonally, moving from country to country. He's full of energy and has an almost childlike curiosity for the world. I love this about him. But he also has a pretty dark past.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
No, it was very impressive. You fooled me for a second. I was like, did you work in procurement when you were in Wall Street?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
You know, when I worked in consulting, this was one of the main skills that I had to learn more than Excel, more than PowerPoint, more than, you know, how to talk in a meeting and all that, just how to learn quickly and make it look mostly effortless and not require more than is necessary from other people. It is such a great skill to develop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But it does come with a fair amount of imposterism because the reality is you are pretending, right? You're pretending that you didn't just learn what a procured to pay process was 10 minutes ago, right? You're pretending that you've been speaking this language for years. So part of the art that Jordan was just describing is being able to perform well and just to tolerate that healthy fraudulence.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
and that means owning your knowledge when you have it and also knowing when not to talk when you do actually need help it also means getting comfortable using new skills when they're still a little shaky you're learning on the fly there's an aspect of performing in all of this playing the role of somebody who knows what they're doing and then realizing along the way that you actually do know what you're doing also as long as she's at this company and she might need to be there for a little while until her husband finds a new job
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
It's definitely in her interest to perform as well as possible, even if this is not what she wants to be doing. And then she can tell that story to hiring managers, which is a great story, by the way. They stuck me in this random department. We went through layoffs. Suddenly I was in charge of all this stuff that I knew nothing about. And I thrived. I achieved this and this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
They're going to love that. And then she can leave this company if she wants with a great recommendation and a solid reputation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Abuse in his childhood, prison, betrayal, and drugs. When I met him, he smoked weed from time to time, but he lived a very healthy lifestyle. Working out, eating healthy, and sleeping well. I didn't see any negative effects of the weed, so it didn't bother me. Then, last winter, I visited Adam for two months on the island he was working on. He had developed a bit of a cocaine and weed problem.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Dude, you are fully in your Meathead era. I know. That's incredible. Yeah, I really am. You're like, I'm jumping rope. It's bone density. Bone density and protein chips, bro. Protein chips.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, my adult child recently moved 1,700 miles away, and I find myself experiencing grief that feels like it will never go away. She has a high-paying job and bought a home in a state with more affordable housing. A starter home in my state is around a half a million dollars, so naturally my son is also planning on moving out of state within a year as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Instead of feeling pride, I feel overwhelmingly sad. I gave everything I had to my two children. Every decision I ever made was for their well-being. We just finished paying for five years of college for each of them. I had children in order to extend my family. I feel cheated because seeing someone for only a few days a year does not feel like family to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
During my time there, I saw the negative effects, including paranoia, but I didn't realize how bad his addiction was. I also realized that he has extreme trust issues, maybe triggered or worsened by the cocaine. He would constantly think that I was cheating or lying to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
My husband and I have been devoted to our own parents over the years, being primary caretakers to parents with dementia and cancer. We also never wanted our parents to feel lonely in old age, so we made a point of visiting them frequently. It seems like we will have no one looking out for us as we begin to age.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I look forward to seeing my daughter each year, but when those few days arrive and I'm in her presence, I feel grief-stricken and find myself choking back tears. After she leaves, I find myself crying for days. I'm practicing self-care, expanding my social life, all of that, but it still hurts. How can I get over this, move on emotionally, stop feeling let down?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
How do I think differently about this situation without lying to myself? Signed, Can't Stop Crying Because My Kids Are Thriving.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Oh God. That's what that meant. I forgot about that part of it. So we can't say that on the show. No, I mean, that's ridiculous, right? Elon Musk is killing people's jobs and our ability to empathize.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
No, but you're in a position to understand what this woman is going through, I guess, in a milder way. So your heart does go out there. I'm sure I get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Small things like me eating a whole ice cream carton myself, going for a walk in the same place a couple days in a row, and coming back too quickly from eating lunch at a restaurant made him think I was cheating.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Oh, man, Jordan, I am having a weirdly strong reaction to this letter. Yeah. Tell me. I don't know. It's just like, OK, look, I'm with you. I feel for her. I'm not a parent, so I don't know what this is like myself. But I can only imagine how sad and complicated it must be to have children and raise them for 18 years or more and then watch them go off and do things differently.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
You know, she is in the middle of a very intense transition right now. So I get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
It's very emotional, okay? I get it. But to be totally honest, I'm struggling with some of the assumptions in her letter. I don't blame her for having them. I'm sure a lot of parents have them. But let's just talk about a few of them. In her view, she gave everything she had to her children. She did everything for their well-being. She and her husband paid for their education.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
She said she had children to extend her family, to have children who would remain close by and be with her all the way through old age. And now that they're moving away, her daughter anyway, but apparently her son soon will too, She's basically saying, hey, that wasn't the deal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The deal was I give you everything and then you repay me by living your life in a way that satisfies me, in a way that makes me feel loved, in a way that makes me feel appreciated, in a way that makes me feel safe. Damn, yeah, that is kind of what she's saying. Look, this might be my own bias here, but I just don't think that's entirely fair or healthy. I don't know if it's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
If the implicit deal was that our kids stay close by, then this wasn't all for their well-being. It was at least partly for her well-being. And now that they're adults, her children want to pursue their own authentic lives, their own goals. And her daughter is apparently very successful and has bought herself her own home, which is a huge accomplishment in this day and age.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
That is something objectively to be very proud of. But it sounds like then she has to pay a huge price for it in the form of her mother's sadness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
If anything, doesn't it suggest the opposite, that you're not taking a three-hour lunch? Yeah. Potentially watching your figure? I don't understand. Yeah, sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
So, yes, I agree that she's not actively trying to guilt her daughter. As far as we know, she is asking us, like, how do I change my lens on this situation? She's trying to do her part. It's not malicious. And I appreciate that. But whether she intends to or not, her daughter probably does have to carry that around to some degree. It's hard not to know that your parent is in pain and disappointed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But what really makes me sad about this is it's not just getting in the way of her kid's happiness. It's also getting in the way of her happiness, right? Like instead of feeling pride, and again, she has so much to be proud of here. Her daughter is impressive. Her son, probably also awesome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
She only feels this sadness because she can only experience her children's independence and success as a loss to her, as an abandonment. And I just think that's kind of a shame because a big part of being a parent of older children is, yeah, grieving the loss of the childhood. But another big part is celebrating them, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Celebrating them for individuating to your point, delighting in their growth and their evolution, having fun watching them chart their own path. But if you only view their leaving through the lens of you're reneging on our deal and that is not why I had you, then everyone loses.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But again, she is choosing to think of it that way to some degree.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I agree. By the way, so weird for me to be the person who's getting worked up on feedback. Yeah, no kidding. I feel like our roles have totally reversed. I'm not trying to be mean, but... Who is really cheating whom here? Are her kids cheating her by moving away?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Or is she maybe cheating herself a little bit by defining family this narrowly and not finding ways of staying close with her kids even when they live apart?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I don't mean to brag, but I'm more of a jackfruit carnitas taco bowl myself. With extra guac. With extra guac.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
It's just a question. I will say, despite everything I just said, I do understand her anxiety about who's going to look out for us in our older age. That is a valid fear, and all aging parents deserve attention and support, obviously. But I'm with you. She has a lot of beliefs and judgments wrapped up in that fear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
You're getting into something that I'm now thinking about the more we talk about this letter. I wonder if their daughter's move to another state was actually a really important move for her. I'm secretly harboring the same suspicion. I'm speculating. I could totally be wrong. And our friend here might not enjoy hearing this very much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
But given this view of parenting, you know, I do all this for you and then you live the rest of your life the way I want for me. I guess I wonder how their daughter feels about that, has felt about that her whole life. And I do wonder if moving states was a way to create perhaps some healthy distance from her parents to assert herself a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Like you said, Jordan, she is individuating and maybe rewriting this arrangement in addition to the fact that housing is more affordable. Honestly, I would probably do the same. And this grief that mom feels, there might be a few different strands in there. I think it's possible that she's not just grieving the relationship with her kids and this life phase.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
She might also be grieving the ability to dictate her children's lives. Or maybe another way to put it, she might be grieving the loss of the easiest strategy to avoid her own loneliness, her anxiety, her fear, which was ensuring that her children she created always stay close.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
He claims that all this was triggered by me texting with guys and hiding it from him. The guys I was texting with were a taxi driver and a hiking guide, both in their 50s with kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
It's a breville sound. Actually, that's not the sound at all. I don't know why I said that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I let Adam read all the texts and go through my whole phone in hopes that would reassure him. For the two months I was with him on that trip, we could always talk about these incidents, and I managed to calm him down. Then I got pregnant. This Adam handled perfectly. We talked about it. It wasn't an easy decision, but we decided that abortion was the best option.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I think the reasons are quite obvious, but this letter is not about the abortion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
When I went back home, all hell broke loose. He started doing lots of cocaine to the point where it seemed like he had completely lost his mind. He would get high after he finished work and go into manic episodes about me cheating. He would stay up till 4 or 5 in the morning calling me a hundred times and texting me insane stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's like a dee, dee, dee. And you did like the 1980s toaster in every family movie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The evidence of me cheating became more and more far-fetched to the point where I could see no logic at all. But to him, it was completely obvious. He would also tell me things like he can't go home because cars are following him, that he has to buy a gun, and that he was going to put a knife to the throat of men that he thought I might have cheated with to find out the truth.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
That's when I started thinking about you guys and what you would tell me to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I'm so curious. Virtual Jordan and Gabe. I decided to set boundaries. I wouldn't talk or text with him when he was high. It's not easy to ignore him, but I tried. I focused on taking care of myself, working out, eating healthy, sleeping well. When Adam brings up feelings in a mature, sober way, I listen without judgment and never tell him that he's crazy or anything. I'm always honest.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I don't even tell white lies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
That's a really good point. I see it more like he's managed to stay clean for short periods of time and always relapse. That's what that means, actually. Yes. If I bring up rehab, his response is going to rehab would make me a complete junkie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The old Amy Winehouse defense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
How'd that work out for her? Exactly. It's been a minute since her last album. I can't. Tragic end or did it all? No, it did not work out well. No, it did not. So she goes on. I've been trying to open him up to therapy, but I don't want to feel like I'm forcing him. If he spends all his money on cocaine, instead of rent and food, he'll have to sleep on the street and starve.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Meanwhile, I'm not a party person. I've tried weed. Didn't like it. I would never try any stronger drugs. I used to enjoy a beer every once in a while, but now that I've seen what addiction can do to a person, I enjoy a glass of cold water even more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Just bring a jump rope. We got ourselves a rave.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
When Jordan and I get together, we rail lines of H2O. Yep, just toss a pack of Pedialyte on a mirror and chop it up and go to town. You know it's good when it burns. Jordan is about two element packets away from checking into Passages in Malibu for an electrolyte addiction.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I'm aware that I might have to leave Adam for my own good, but I'm not willing to give up on him just yet. I really love this man. I think we can be really good together. I come from a really good family, and I know Adam would fit in perfectly with them. I have questions about that. Depends on the family. I'm willing to help him in any way possible, but not enable him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
The past two weeks he's been clean from cocaine, except for one relapse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I'm done with all the murdering except for the one body in my basement that happened last week.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
He still smokes weed, but he's working out, sleeping, and eating well. In about one month, he's coming back to my workplace. This is a good place for him. It's in the forest, and the closest towns are small with nothing much going on. The best things to do here are hike, swim, climb, stuff like that. We have weed, cocaine, and other drugs here, but not as much as where he is now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
How should I handle it when he doesn't trust me? Do I send a picture of myself wherever I am as proof I'm not cheating or does he have to learn to trust me? How do I handle this when he asks me calmly and when he's upset? What is the best way to stop using? Cut everything off in one day or start with the cocaine and then slowly get off the weed?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
What kind of treatment is best when he can't access free treatment? And what more can I do to help? Signed, trying to cope with being put under the microscope when my boyfriend won't stop hitting the slopes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it sounds like he has some actual delusions, which is scary.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1155: Love Could Be Dandy If He'd Quit the Nose Candy | Feedback Friday
I mean, yeah, that's what I'm worried about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Ja, etwas ist sehr falsch mit dieser Bildung.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Bis zum nächsten Mal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
If you're ready to embrace the impossible, the Defender is your perfect partner. Be uncapable and ready to go wherever you're headed next.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's a lot of dogs and cats.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
Oh, thanks for the hat.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1127: Chaotic Kin Has You Rethinking Children | Feedback Friday
No big deal. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think you guys might also have something with the Facebook posts. We talked about this when we were reading the letter, because that does sound like it rises to the level of defamation and or online harassment. There are laws about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That is dark, but it is an idea, isn't it? Something for you guys to consider. Finally, there is something called Victim Services Ontario. They offer legal guidance. They offer emotional support. I would give them a call and see what they say about all of this. They might have more insight or resources to share with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So those are the main strategies available to your parents right now, as far as I know. And they have to work all of them at the same time over and over again. until some combination works or this neighbor gets bad enough for them to be there at the right moment to intervene.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But in the meantime, just having gone through this myself, I'll share a few things that might help your parents cope with the situation, hopefully get through this without losing their minds. So first of all, people experiencing psychosis, especially schizophrenic people, the vast majority of them are not physically dangerous. And when they are dangerous, they're usually dangerous to themselves.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I realize that's cold comfort, but it might help you sleep a little bit better at night. The second thing is, let's just take a moment to remember something that is very easy to forget when a crazy person is targeting you, which is this woman is in trouble. She's in a lot of pain. And like Jordan said, she really needs help.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Now, whether she accepts that help, whether it actually makes her better, that is unclear. Even if you somehow succeeded in getting her hospitalized, she could be back in her house in a few days or in a few weeks. She could go off her medication and things could be back to where they are. They could be worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
There's so much you cannot control here, and that is what is so frustrating about these situations. When I went through this with Josh, I was constantly ping-ponging between rage and empathy. And that was really hard when he was banging on my wall and yelling outside my window and keeping me up at night and no one could do anything about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's really hard to feel for somebody when they're driving you insane, but you have to remember that this person is deeply unwell. And as horrible as this is for your parents, it's probably much worse for her, right? Because her reality is a 24-7 paranoid, delusional shitshow where people are targeting her nonstop, which is just so sad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And making room for that empathy, and trust me, again, I know how hard it is to feel compassion for somebody who's keeping you up at night and making your life a living hell. So I get it. But if you and your parents can stay connected to your kindness here, even a little bit, it really does help cope with the crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's so interesting. It's like, do you want her out because she's driving you mad or do you want to get her help because she's sick? Both. But beyond that, noise-canceling headphones, earplugs, white noise machines, eye masks, you got to get these. I would make sure that your parents have all of that stuff so they can at least get some sleep at night.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
and you did mention that your dad is a little bit of a hothead and he's also probably his patience is being tested he's at his wit's end so if your parents have to interact with her i would really encourage them to be as neutral as possible be very gentle do not provoke her do not fight back It's tempting to do that, but you can't do that. You are not going to get anywhere that way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I would just beeline from the car to the door, get inside, say as little as possible, ideally nothing, and just stay as far away from her as possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It sucks that they have to adapt, but they have to adapt because they can. By the way, side note about the woman who sold your parents the house. So I looked into this a little bit and it seems that in Ontario, sellers are generally not legally required to disclose a crazy neighbor if there is one. But there are certain circumstances where they have to disclose.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And apparently those circumstances are if the neighbor's behavior has resulted in repeated police interventions, which sounds like is exactly what happened because you said both the neighbors and the cops have said that this has been an ongoing issue for years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
or they have to disclose if a neighbor has created threats or disturbances that could impact the buyer's enjoyment or safety of the property, which is clearly what's happening here. That could be considered what's called a material fact affecting the property's value or desirability. anything, anything that makes the property uninhabitable or dangerous.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The other reason that sellers in Ontario have to disclose is if a property is stigmatized due to past crimes, disturbances, or, and this is crucial, ongoing harassment. And that seems to include, and this is also really important, nearby neighbors with troubling behavior. So I wonder whether your parents might also have a case against the previous owner here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I do too. But I'm also very torn about this because I also feel for that woman.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Well, I'm just not going to say anything and pray that she doesn't pop off when I have an open house. She was dealing with the exact same thing. She just wanted to get out. And if the law doesn't explicitly compel her to disclose, maybe she was just doing what she had to do, you know?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yes. The schizophrenic factor? Interesting. Look, I guess we could argue both sides of this till the cows come home. That's a tough one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But then they would have to decide whether to disclose this to the next buyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It would be funny if they didn't disclose the neighbor. They sold the house. They get sued in a couple of years by the next owners and the cycle just keeps happening until this other neighbor died. Just musical lawsuits for the next 30 years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Ethan Hawke is in that movie.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So unfortunately, what I learned from the jaw situation, as you probably know, is that the system is very flawed, very limited. It's overwhelmed. It has a ton of cracks and people like this woman easily fall through them. The sad reality is that people often need to be a lot better or they need to be a lot worse for a situation to improve.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
A lot of mentally ill people fall in this middle ground where.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
can take care of themselves and they're not a true danger to other people and so the cops really can't do anything but then the people who live around them are forced to suffer which again we keep coming back to it's just terrible it's so annoying it's more than annoying it's maddening but this is the world that we live in so i'm hoping i'm praying that this woman either makes a mistake or crosses a line that gives the police or the mental health people a reason to get her evaluated or something changes maybe she moves away on her own
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Maybe she goes through a period where her psychosis calms down a little bit. Maybe she dies, unlikely to happen soon, but you never know. And maybe things miraculously get better on their own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But this is a situation where you and your parents are going to have to work every angle hard and give the authorities as much ammunition as possible to intervene, which includes all of their documentation, their camera footage, picking up the phone and calling, writing these reports, all of it. And they just have to take good care of themselves along the way. That's it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Your ratings are going to tank real quick.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You might get away with it for a month. I can just picture the listing like great view of the topless 60 year old lady dancing on her porch next door while yelling obscenities at my five year old daughter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That's one of those Airbnbs that's like, why is it $45 a night for a seven bedroom house in Ontario? Yeah. Like what's wrong with this place? It must have a leaky roof.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I feel so bad for them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a junior in high school and involved in the choir program. Last year, I got into a highly selective and competitive acapella choir that travels and competes at state and national competitions. Outside of that, I'm a competitive gymnast and cross-country runner. There are 12 of us in this choir and we're all heavily involved in other school activities.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I was incredibly excited when the directors let me in and worked with my schedule so I could fully commit to the group.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It's always that, isn't it? It's always like a classic from the 70s and then an early 2000s banger. Yeah, this kid already got into Stanford.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Over the course of the next year, we performed well and had a lot of fun as a group. Then one of the directors left, and the school didn't replace him, leaving us with one teacher. This year, things have gotten strange. This woman, our teacher, encouraged one of my friends in the group to start dating another girl in the group when she knew he was already dating someone from another school.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
She also approached that friend, one other boy in the group, and me, and talked poorly about one other member in our group. This is weird and inappropriate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
One girl left the choir program earlier this year because she felt like the director was controlling her, asking her to change her hair for the school musical, threatening to cut her from the program when she didn't agree, and trying to tell her which friends to hang around outside of the group. It feels like she's trying to live through us.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Then, one day, she invited me and my two best friends in the group, who are both swimmers, over to her house to get measured for some new performance outfits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
She asked us to take off our shirts, which was somewhat uncomfortable for all of us, especially because when I've gotten measured for uniform and gymnastics, I haven't needed to take off my shirt before. My friends and I are all religious, and that crossed a line for all of us. It was a wake-up call. Hold up. You are really digging that hold up soundbite these days, aren't you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
You've been hitting that button hard. Then again, it is Feedback Friday.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think maybe we should rename the show Hold Up with Jordan and Arbiter and Game is Right because so many letters fit the bill.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So weird. Gobsmacked is a good word. I gotta say, it's also very interesting to hear of a woman doing something like this. I say interesting. Horrifying. It's usually the male teachers who are the creeps.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
What are you thinking? We've talked about maybe reporting this to the school administrators or anonymously via a school platform. We don't really know what to do, and it seems like the problem is starting to grow beyond just the few people I've mentioned.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Maybe that's what he means, or maybe he just means that the word is spreading, or she's just being inappropriate with a bunch of kids. I see. A real problem. What would you do? Signed, dealing with something bizarre and debating whether to say au revoir when I just want to sing my repertoire.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's interesting. We would never make that joke if a woman wrote it and said her male teacher did this. So it's like, what's the difference?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And on top of it, she's maybe doing this with other kids or she could. So this is bad news.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, about six months ago, my parents, who are 80 and 72, bought their intended retirement home near my family and me in Ontario, Canada. They wanted to be closer to my daughter, their youngest grandchild, have her over for sleepovers and take part in babysitting duties. Unfortunately, their new neighbor is literally insane, possibly schizophrenic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
and is now making their lives very difficult. At the beginning of my parents' time there, she seemed fine, if a little eccentric. She would keep to herself, often ignoring them. But they could hear yelling at someone or something in her house at all hours of the day and night, and she could often be seen dancing and smoking pot on her front steps throughout the day. Again, weird, but harmless.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, she doesn't get any 5x7s. No. After that, I told myself enough is enough and filed paperwork to finally enforce child support. A month later, my ex was evicted from low-income housing for failing to pay her rent and has basically been homeless for the last couple months, crashing with friends and family. It's the second time in the last two years that she's been evicted.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
She recently changed jobs again and found a decent place to live that I'm pretty sure she isn't going to be able to afford in the long run.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah. You don't end up in these situations over and over again unless there's something wrong.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Fast forward three months to this past winter. My husband went over to my parents' place to shovel their driveway while they were out of town. And this woman came out of her house and started screaming at him that he was trespassing and going to prison. She had met and talked to my husband a couple times before this, so she knew he wasn't a random stranger on their property.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But then does somebody who is this out of control have the resources and self-awareness to seek out that help? So it's a tough loop. So he goes on. It's been five months since I submitted the paperwork and she hasn't received notice that she's going to have to start paying child support. I know when she gets evicted this time, she's going to blame it all on me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I'm now starting to feel a little guilty for making her pay. I don't want the mother of my children to be homeless again. And I also don't want her to be able to tell the kids she thinks it's all my fault because I made her pay. Should I stick to my guns and finally hold her accountable? Or should I withdraw my claim with the state and continue to let her slide?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Signed, torn about whether I wanna kick up even more drama with my kid's mess of a mama.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I agree. And it makes me wonder what her story about all of this would be, because we're only hearing his side of things. And honestly, the facts sound pretty cut and dry. She sounds like a nightmare. But I'm just curious, like, what would she say about all of this, you know?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
She continued to berate and scream at him for a good 30 to 40 minutes about going to prison and being raped and then Wrapped it up with some good old conspiracy theories about the neighbors across the street, chemtrails, the government, etc.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I don't know. Yeah, it's hard. That is the bind that he's in. His guilt is really interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think there's more for him to know about that response to does he feel guilty because he's actually asking her to do something that she literally can't do and making her already very difficult life even more difficult or is his guilt unwarranted and it's causing him to take on more here than he actually should. And is it actually protecting his ex in an interesting way?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And he needs to look at why he feels guilty for just holding her to a higher standard.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That's an interesting point. I think anytime we feel guilt, there's something for us to know about why we assign responsibility the way we do. what we do and do not allow other people to experience. And given the extraordinary facts in this case, the fact that he feels guilty just for asking her to pay when he could use the help, that is meaningful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Okay, but there are no cleaners to take her to. That's the problem. So the question he needs to sit with is the largely symbolic victory of enforcing this child support order more important than not causing more tension in their relationship. My feeling is if he's just being practical about this, if it's really just about the money, it's probably not worth it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But I understand that you lose something by backing off. The real problem you're facing, it seems to me, is what to do with these very difficult feelings that your ex is leaving you with. Because, look, she's provoking you. She's disappointing you. She's disrespecting you in so many ways. And she gets to be out of control and impulsive and a mess in her life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And you're the one who has to pick up the pieces. and then you're left to hold all of this anger. So dragging her back to court, making her pay you child support, that is one way to assuage the anger and also maybe, hopefully, theoretically improve your situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Their very own Josh, man. This is bringing up a lot of stuff for me. I am so sorry this is happening. This event seems to have unleashed her full crazy because ever since then, she's been an unrelenting source of stress and harassment for my parents.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But like Jordan said, if she's not going to be able to pay it, which by the way, that can result in a number of actions that could make her life so much worse than it already is. And it's already pretty bad. Having one eviction on your record is already really bad. Having two means she might never be able to rent an apartment again. There are so many implications from not paying child support.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
No, not saying it's his fault. I'm just pointing out a dire situation she is in now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And the implications of not paying child support when a court is ordering you to, that could be anything from getting your driver's license suspended to intercepting tax refunds to being found in contempt of court, from my understanding, all of which... would make her an even worse co-parent to you. So you might be shooting yourself in the foot by enforcing this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
If she's not going to be able to even pay you this money, then it's kind of an impotent form of working through this rage that you feel. So this is why I really feel for you. Your ex has created a number of problems, but the one that seems hardest to solve is how to live with and how to work through the very intense feelings that her choices are leaving you with.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That, I think, is where you need to focus your energy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah. He's going to have to find his own process there. I can tell you that it starts with feeling the anger, really allowing yourself to be in touch with it, not stuffing it down, which, based on your letter, I don't think you're going to have much trouble doing. Yeah, I was going to say, step one, he's absolutely crushing it. Yeah, you're nailing it so far. But then what? You're just angry.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And he's going to have to learn how to channel that anger into other things. I think the best one is taking even better care of his kids to compensate for the very tragic mother that they have. He might also want to channel this rage into his career. He can start developing a physical practice and go to the gym, discharge it that way. He can talk it out with some close friends.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I hope he has a few. There are some healthy venues here, but ultimately... I think he's going to have to do what you did, Jordan, which is make room for his anger and his empathy, as hard as that is. It's an interesting theme on today's episode because he is dealing with somebody who is not quite right. Yeah, no kidding. To put it mildly. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So I'm not just saying focus on your kindness and just let go of your anger. I'm saying be angry and have compassion. And they are compatible feelings. That might also be a huge step toward a kind of forgiveness toward your ex. And that forgiveness, which as we talk about all the time, is a process that could in time help ease this very understandable burning rage that you feel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
They cannot leave their house without her coming outside to yell obscenities at them or accuse them of trying to steal her identity or trespassing on her property. She makes lewd comments to my 80-year-old father when he's home by himself. If she doesn't come out of the house, she bangs on her windows, screams, and blows a whistle nonstop while they or anyone coming to their house is outside.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Another common issue is that for these positions, employers generally don't issue written offer letters, forming a harder basis to negotiate. As a college student, these are often the positions I find myself interviewing for given my class schedule, which limits me to part-time work unless I'm willing to work insane hours. Is this common with entry-level positions?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Do I need to adjust my strategy here? Signed, having a think about how not to get hoodwinked when they won't put these offers in black ink.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
She has a blinding security light pointed right at my parents' living room window that is on day and night. My mom had to install a blackout curtain to try and block it out. This is awful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Losing my mind. And in fact, I did. And I didn't even have a light shining in my apartment. This is horrible. They found this woman's profile on Facebook, and it's an endless stream of incomprehensible conspiracy posts about people out to get her, trying to kill her, drug her, or steal her identity. She's also posted pictures of my parents and my brother with their addresses.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
and comments on how they're going to prison for whatever she's accusing them of that day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Hi, guys. I was recently scammed by two guys pretending to be buyers for my photography equipment, which I had listed for sale on a Facebook marketplace. They came to my home, pretended to transfer the money to me, and pressured me to hand over the goods, insisting that the funds would take a few hours to appear in my account.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I consider myself knowledgeable about scams, but in the moment, despite realizing that I was being scammed, I still handed over the equipment. Sorry to hear that. I hate scammers. I hate these people. Looking back, there were no green flags, only red ones, but I felt unable to stop what was happening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Was it because I had already made the mistake of letting two strangers into my home and wanted to avoid escalating the situation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's interesting. This is reminding me of the question we took a few weeks ago from the guy who got scammed by the locksmith. We were talking about how much harder it is to say no to somebody once they're standing in front of you and the problem is already underway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
It could, we'll come back to that. I now don't feel comfortable bringing my daughter over there in case she's exposed to this woman. They've spoken with the other neighbors and the police, and apparently this has been an ongoing issue for years, although the neighbors across the street said she's never gone on quite this long before.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Like the psychological costs of telling one to go F themselves and leave are a lot higher at that point than they are when you're texting and you're talking about meeting up or whatever. Yeah, interesting. I know I made a huge blunder by inviting strangers into my home, and thank God they didn't do anything violent to me or my family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Also, I had a baby just a week before this incident and was already dealing with a lot, both emotionally and physically. Not an excuse for my blunder in any way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Thankfully, there's a happy ending. I kept an eye on local shops and online marketplaces, and a week later, I found my equipment listed at a pawn shop. I contacted the police, who confiscated everything. Now I'm just waiting for it to be returned to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I don't think they did.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Wow. Why does being scammed make you feel guilty and ashamed, even though you're the victim? What is this psychology? looking into the frame around this strange shame when we're not the ones to blame for falling into this game.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I was wondering the exact same thing. I think so, because the cops are not going to reimburse them, right? No. But that kind of sucks for the pawn shop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The woman they bought this house from apparently moved because of this neighbor. but nothing was mentioned to my parents before purchasing. That sucks. Oh, that makes me upset.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think it also makes us realize that we're not always as in control of our lives as we think we are. And not feeling in control can lead to feelings of weakness or inadequacy or fear. And for some people that can be a little shameful too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And when you get better, I find that the shame ends up becoming an interesting part of the story of how you learned how to do that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The police said they couldn't do anything about it. They've been to her residence to talk with her many times and recommended my parents speak to the justice of the peace in their town, which they did, and were told they could do nothing either. On the recommendation of the police and the justice of the peace...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
40 grand, if I remember correctly. But yeah, whatever amount you lose is painful. That was a really interesting story. That was episode 1000, if anyone wants to go back and listen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Also, getting scammed is a huge blow to our sense of safety, to our feeling of trust in the world. This might be one of the hardest parts of being taken advantage of, right? The hit to your worldview. It's hard to have faith in people after something like this. Now, I don't know why this particular thing would lead to guilt and shame.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Maybe there's some shame around believing that the world is better than it is, and then you feel naive, and then you feel shameful. So I guess there's that naivete piece again. But actually, the more appropriate feeling here is just sadness. I get sad knowing that there are people out there who choose to be criminals, who choose to target people like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's a very fair point. I also think that hindsight bias plays a big role in these stories, and that hurts, too, to look back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
They put up security cameras and are recording her harassment episodes each time they walk out of their home and have been writing down dates and issues as they happen. Excellent. Glad to hear that. That's key. I feel terrible that my parents are now living like prisoners in their home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I think that feeling of I should have known better, I should have trusted my instincts, I should have paid more attention to those red flags. There were no green flags, just red flags. That reinforces the guilt, the shame. I also have a theory that it might be one more way to reassert control and feel powerful again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Because it's like, I couldn't defend myself in the moment, but now on the other side, I can simulate what it would be like if I did do that, or I can imagine how I'm going to react differently next time. And maybe that fantasy helps us cope with the shame we feel of not having handled it very well. Sure. But at the same time, doing the postmortem after you get scammed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That's also a crucial part of the recovery process. When you say to yourself, oh, I did actually clock that sign. I thought that thing he said by text was weird. I did get a weird vibe from him on the phone and I still let him into my house. That is very important because what you're doing is confirming for yourself that you were not totally asleep at the wheel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
They used most of their retirement savings to buy this house mortgage-free and can't afford to pay capital gains and more land transfer taxes to move again less than a year later. Not to mention that moving houses again when you're 80 is just so exhausting and unfair to them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
They plan on consulting a lawyer to see what can be done through those channels. Maybe they can sue her for harassment, but I'm not sure that will stop this woman if she's legitimately unstable. I also worry about her trying to retaliate or escalate to actual violence if they pursue legal action against her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So far, she's never left her property and immediately goes inside her house when the police show up knowing that they can't enter her home. Unfortunately, my dad has always been a bit of a hothead, so I worry about how long he'll be able to lie low without snapping back or antagonizing her. Also, the use of things like personal tasers or pepper spray is illegal here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
What's your advice, dark or otherwise, for making their daily lives less miserable? Signed, Surviving This War, with the Looney Tune next door.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Oh man, I second everything you just said. This is such a nightmare. I have lived it. I lived it only for about six months. I'm afraid that your parents, they've already been living with this for about three, four, five months, I think. This is the kind of thing that has the potential to ruin your life to some degree, and I am just so sorry that they are going through it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
I'm afraid I don't have great news. What I've learned about living next to people like this is... It is not easy to get them help or to get them out. And I imagine that it's even harder in Canada where the laws might be even more favorable to people like this. I'm just guessing. and also where the system might be even more overwhelmed than it is here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Again, I'm not totally sure, I've just read a little bit about this in other ways. But I did Google this quickly, and it looks like the Ontario Mental Health Act has pretty strict criteria for involuntary hospitalization, and obtaining what's called a peace bond, which is basically a court order that requires someone to behave well and keep the peace for a period of time,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
That can be time consuming, it can be stressful. Apparently a lot of cities struggle to enforce bylaws for non-urgent things like crazy neighbors. There are also privacy laws that prevent neighbors from knowing about someone's mental health treatment, so there are obstacles here. I think you are already figuring this out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
But I'm afraid that you and your parents do have to prepare for a long road here. But the good news is there are options here. So let's start with some practical stuff. First of all, your parents should definitely up their home security. I'm very glad that they've put up cameras. That's a great first step in addition to documenting everything that's happening, which they're already doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah, although she stays inside her house, she's smart. We'll see if that could change. It's only a matter of time. Talking to a lawyer is an excellent idea. That person should be able to advise you guys on all of your options in Canada, in Ontario, what works formally, what works informally, whether a lawsuit would actually help matters or just provoke this woman further.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And even though it's done nothing so far, I would keep calling the police whenever she does something egregious. I wouldn't do it every time she says something weird, just like a minor little thing, because you'd probably be calling every day and they might stop coming out or they'll get annoyed, but...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
When she verbally attacks your parents, like these lewd comments that she's making, which do seem beyond the pale, or she gets scary, or she creates a ton of noise late at night, something concrete, something extreme, ideally something that maybe could be criminal, definitely call the police.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So anything related to noise, disturbances, property damage, property upkeep, violations of any municipal codes, all of those are solid reasons to call the police. But The key is you then have to follow up with the police by email with a formal written notice of what happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And ideally that's backed up by the documentation that you guys are gathering so that this doesn't just become a random incident report that gets filed away or thrown away and ignored. And it needs to become a formal thing, a formal police report. At least that's what my landlord had to do with Josh here in LA. I'm guessing something similar happens in Canada.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And if enough of these police reports build up, It might make the police realize that this neighbor is a real problem and needs to be evaluated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Now, while you do that, you also have to contact your local department of mental health or whatever it's called in your area. And you need to do that on an ongoing basis and keep asking them to do a wellness check on this neighbor. This is not just about getting her in trouble to retaliate or to make her life more difficult.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
This is about hopefully putting her in touch with the resources that she needs. I don't know if Ontario will be more or less responsive than we are here in California, but eventually someone should come out and maybe if they're not cops in uniform, your neighbor will be a little more open to talking with them. I don't know, worth a shot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
There's also something called the Mobile Crisis Intervention Team in a lot of areas. I know it exists in Toronto. Not sure if you guys live in Toronto, but if so, this is a team made up of nurses and specially trained officers that the police can send to calls involving people with mental health issues.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
So when you follow up with the police, I would literally say I'm requesting a visit from the MCIT or the MCIT. Not sure how you guys say it up there. What your parents need to prove, I think, to the authorities, especially any mental health people, is that this woman meets the criteria for at least an assessment and possibly involuntary hospitalization. under the Ontario Mental Health Act.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
And the main criteria are that the person is a danger to themselves or others, and that they have a recurrent mental disorder that is likely to cause serious harm if left untreated. It's interesting. I looked into this a little more.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
The MHA also seems to say that if the person's condition is getting worse, if they're likely to suffer significant deterioration, then that's another criterion for involuntary hospitalization.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Yeah. So that gives me some hope that she does meet that criterion. And that would be something else that your parents should document and that they have to communicate to the mental health folks that this woman is noticeably decompensating. And honestly, everyone is worried about her and she deserves a second look.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
Sorry.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1115: Schizophrenic Spite Dims Golden Years' Light | Feedback Friday
No, but it's funny. People do that too, right? They say like, this is a weird phenomena. And I'm like, it's a phenomenon. Okay. It's almost like it's a phenomenon. I've never felt like more of a pretentious a-hole than I do in this moment. Thank you for pointing this out. You're welcome. Definitely not in my head about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The other thing that jumps out at me about this story is that people who are mean to you at work are almost always just miserable in their personal lives.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Or why would you view everyone as competition when they're actually trying to save you? Dolores just sounds so insecure, as we talked about, on top of being unhappy. And I have to think that that also played into her susceptibility to a scam like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Well, there's no iPhone app for that, Jordan. You know, that's going to take actual work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, a 28-toothed woman in a 32-toothed world. Poor thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Or like in the chair in a Chilean back alley dentist's office. One of those two places.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Hey guys, I worked as a chef after I graduated from high school. I went from being a dishwasher to assistant kitchen manager inside of a year, and six months after that, I became the head kitchen manager.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
After a year of running the place, I was hired at another restaurant. The chef there took me on and everything was great. I was learning new techniques, recipes, and a bunch of other skills. But there was always something off to me about this chef. He was very quick to hand over responsibilities to me even though I wasn't even the sous chef yet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Like opening the restaurant, disarming the alarms, and organizing the prep cooks and food shipments. I'd just started a couple months before and thought that I must have been doing a good job if he was already trusting me with these extra things. Also, after running a previous kitchen and seeing how much more business we were doing, I expected the tips to be quite a bit more significant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The chef handled all of the tips, dividing them among the other cooks as he deemed adequate for the shifts and hours worked, which was pretty standard practice. Oh boy, I see where this is going. But there were a few times when another cook and I, at the same level, with the same experience, shifts, and hours, got different tips. One time, I got $50 more than him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Another time, he got $100 more than me. I confronted our chef about this one day, and he said, oh, I'm sorry, I must have miscounted. Won't happen again. He then pulled out a decent-sized wad of cash from his pocket and made up the $100 difference. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I remember one of the traffic guards we saw in the Capitol was so beautiful. She was like uncomfortably attractive. And one of the guys, one of the guys on our tour was like, who is that? And I was like, bro, I don't know who she is. Why are you asking me? It's the crown jewel of Pyongyang. I don't know what to tell you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Just busts out a rack and peels off a couple Benjis like, yeah, this should fix it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
At that point, I knew something was up. I was speaking with one of the cash girls in the office a few days later and noticed that the one table where he always counted the money was also the only table in the restaurant that none of the security cameras could see.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I brought it up with the general manager, but he said that he controlled the front of house business and the chef controlled the back of house, so he couldn't really do anything about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
A few months later, other co-workers started noticing the chef parked in the parking lot really early in the morning and allegedly saw sex workers getting out of his car, then saw him stumbling in looking disheveled and hungover. It later came out that he was addicted to cocaine, gambling, and hookers. Ah yes, the holy trifecta.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
In the end, I decided to leave. I didn't want to work in that environment anymore. A couple months after I left, one of my old co-workers called me one morning to tell me that the chef had been caught stealing $10,000 from the safe upstairs in the office, and he had been arrested and taken to jail.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
No one ever heard from him again.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I'm loving this late 90s Italian. This is great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The following month, when the new chef took over, everyone's tips in the kitchen went from an average of $200 every two weeks to around $600 to $800 every two weeks. We were one of the busiest restaurants in the chain. My suspicions were right. He was skimming thousands of dollars off of every cook's tips to feed his drug and gambling habits.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
We had around 50 to 65 cooks working full and part-time, so the amount of cash this guy was taking was huge. We also found out that his salary from the restaurant was upwards of $120,000 a year, not including the several hundred dollars a month in food and booze that he was allowed to have.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Signed, knew something was fishy when our restaurant was so busy, and after seeing stuff that wasn't pretty, I got out of there in a jiffy, which meant that, sadly, I wasn't privy to him doing a little sniffy sniffy, but that doesn't mean I wasn't itching to find out if he really was iffy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I feel like I need to match the energy of the letters today. That's what's happening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Like weirdly beautiful person who's directing traffic for nobody, which is the most North Korea thing I've ever seen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And like Dolores, I'm feeling very insecure about it. So that's what that is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And cooks. Dude, they were working at like Houston's or something, one of those big chains, I think. That must be what it is. It's got to be.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Oh, for sure. What I'm taking away from the story, though, is how much damage an addiction like this can do. We've taken so many stories over the years about people who have hurt their families, their friends, their peers, their employers because of their addiction. You remember, Jordan, that really moving story we took a couple years back from the guy?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Such a sweet guy, really a gem of a human being. And he stole from his own parents when he worked for their company when he was in his addiction.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
So heartbreaking. This chef... was obviously a criminal, not a good boss, but he also was out of control. And to your point, Jordan, he was probably scared and desperate, or maybe he was just feeding his addiction and this was the only way he knew how. But either way, stealing seemed like the only option, possibly to stay alive. I don't know. It freaks me out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's just a good reminder that when you do not address an addiction, it can ruin your life and it can hurt a lot of people, including really good people like our friend here along the way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a department manager at a supermarket, and back in the day, I had a janitor who worked under me at night. He was in his 60s and had a Homer Simpson build. One weekend, he called me because the compressor for the freezers was down. I came in, and to my surprise, he was pushing the floor scrubber around in just his underwear and nothing else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And everyone takes photos of them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Needless to say, I told him to put some clothes on. Well, sure. You can't buff in the buff. What you doing, pal?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
That could be part of it. Yeah, they're iconic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Another time, the same janitor out of nowhere told me, cocaine isn't as bad for you as people say. It's a bit like coffee. So maybe that had something to do with him stripping when nobody was in the store.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
What a weird place to have the cocaine sweats.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I mean, some people do say that, but I don't know anyone who robbed the safe at their work because they were addicted to macchiatos.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
So he goes on. Thankfully, he no longer works for my store, but that doesn't change how bizarre a situation it was. No, no, it does not. Signed, a boss who contemplated sick leave after walking in on a guy in his skivvies.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Oh yeah, just lip syncing Bob Seger by the Butterball Turkeys. That would be nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I wish I had half this janitor's confidence, dude. My life would be very different. This guy's insane.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I mean, it's basically the same thing. That's what I need. I need a raise, Jordan. I'm going to start stealing from your sponsors.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Knowing he's going to walk in. Knowing that his boss would find him in his. Right. Why? The balls on this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
All right. Next up. Hello, Jordan and Gabe. Years ago, I worked for an Ohio newspaper covering the legal system. The boss was a psycho who had an affair with one of the reporters and management did not care. In one of my stories, I wrote about a secretary who testified that she found banking records in someone's desk that she thought were fraudulent.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
My editor changed it to say that she found wads of cash in a filing cabinet. I was the only reporter in town who covered this story, so my boss pulled this straight out of his ass. I called him out on this at a staff meeting, which really embarrassed him and put a target on my back a mile wide.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Sounds like it, or maybe, I mean, it was bad enough, but maybe he had it out for this company. He wanted the story to sound worse. I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Just make stuff up. This is wildly unethical. This is a proper newspaper. This isn't some kind of like tabloidy blog being run from Kuala Lumpur with like zero oversight where you can just say whatever with impunity. This is not good. So he goes on. Days later, he accused me of missing an important judicial ruling that happened on my day off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
When I pointed out that I wasn't working on the day that opinion was issued and someone else was filling in for me at the courthouse, he said that was, quote unquote, no excuse. He said I should have written about the judge's ruling before it was even issued. As a former lawyer, Jordan, you would understand that no one has access to court rulings until they are released by the clerk's office.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Cool understanding of how time works, bro, I guess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
So he goes on. I tried explaining this to my boss, but he said that was no excuse and wouldn't listen. He claimed that they had covered judicial opinions before they were issued in the past, but couldn't offer a single example to back up this claim. After that, he told me to cover two trials at the same time and not miss a word of testimony in either one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I pointed out that I couldn't be in two places at the same time, and he said, that's no excuse. Fortunately, one of the other reporters volunteered to cover one of the trials for me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
No excuse, yeah. Astral, project yourself into the courtroom or you're not a real reporter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The reporters hated this guy so much that we had an hours-long staff meeting to try and sort things out. This meeting caused me to miss several hours of an important trial I was covering. I explained this to the boss beforehand and he said he wouldn't blame me for missing some of the testimony because the staff meeting was mandatory.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
You're fired, yeah. Two days later, he chewed me out for missing a key part of the trial. I told him that missing part of the trial was his idea, that he said he wouldn't blame me for it. He responded by storming out of the room.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
One day, he called me into a meeting and noted that two weeks before, I had written a story about a years-long legal case that was finally coming to a close, but I didn't write a follow-up story about how the case ended. I told him that I hadn't written about the final results because the case hadn't closed yet. We were still waiting for the final ruling from the judge. Oh god.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The editor replied, oh, I didn't know that. Well, you're fired anyway. Years later, this guy held a high-profile job in politics and government, but he had to resign under a cloud of ethical violations and trying to cover up a sexual harassment scandal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He's now teaching somewhere.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, Billy, where's that book report you owe me? You haven't assigned it yet? No excuses. Signed an erstwhile hack who took a ton of flack from a guy who was whack and finally had to clap back when he went on the attack because I just couldn't crack a way to report back from two incompatible tracks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
No, you can't reason with somebody like this. They should have fired this guy as soon as they found out he made up a detail in a story and possibly when he was having an affair with somebody on staff, although maybe that's a gray area. But the making of facts in a story in a newspaper, that is unconscionable as an editor. They fire people for that in this profession. They should anyway.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Either that or maybe it's slim pickings when it comes to finding an editor for a local newspaper. I know small newspapers are really struggling to stay alive these days, but I got to think they could do better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I'm just remembering that the last time we did a Bad Bosses episode, we took a letter from another reporter at a local newspaper who was harassed by her alcoholic boss. Do you remember that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And there's that accent again. That guy was being protected by the publisher of the paper. So I wonder if the same thing was happening here. And by the way, we should have said this. Our last Bad Bosses story, if you guys haven't heard it, it was really fun. It was episode 998, if you want to check it out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Dinosaurs and regressive policies and strange people. Yeah, maybe.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Why do they do that? Traffic cops are so extra with the hands.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's like the movie. Did you see the movie Zodiac?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's about the Zodiac killer. It's about the guy who cracked the case or mostly cracked the case. And they all work at the Sacramento Bee, which back then I think the Sacramento Bee was probably a very legit paper. It probably still is pretty legit. But those local newspapers, yeah, they collect interesting personalities. Maybe this guy was part of that, came with the furniture.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah. Huge part of my life. Game changer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Do you have a favorite one? A favorite shortcut?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Yeah. My favorite is R is reply. A is reply all and shift pound is delete. And you can just blast their email like that in no time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. In my career, I've encountered various leaders, but none as paradoxically brilliant yet destructive as my former boss, Helga. She possessed an intellect that overshadowed everyone around her, and her confidence in her superior knowledge was palpable. But Helga failed to realize that brilliance loses its luster when it diminishes others rather than uplifting them. Well said.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Helga managed a team of managers, including me. my partner and I supervised a vibrant team of 15 bright and energetic people. But despite our expertise, Helga incessantly critiqued our work, demanding constant redos without clear justification. Her explanations, which were steeped in esoteric jargon, often left us more perplexed than enlightened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Even my attempts at clarification were met with responses that only spiraled into deeper confusion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Totally. Nine times out of ten, I think the emperor has no clothes. Or they're just trying to create confusion for some other reason. So he goes on, Ugh, so unpleasant. Starting to get strong narcissist vibes from Helga as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
A particularly searing memory was when, after organizing a successful planning session with our team and partners at a local university, I returned to Helga to report our progress. She had been invited to join the session but declined, saying she was too busy, although her peers from other departments participated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Initially, she seemed pleased as I began outlining the plan we had developed, but her demeanor darkened as I continued. She interrupted to denounce the entire strategy, claiming it had strayed too far from her quote-unquote perfect plan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The next morning, she dismantled our efforts and insisted we persuade our team to adopt her overnight revisions as their own, a directive that felt both unethical and demoralizing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Even when we achieved great results, Helga never acknowledged our successes. She always found a way to critique our efforts, always ensuring we knew she could do our jobs better. Ugh, Kim Jong Helga over here. I can't with this lady.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Eventually, my peer and I, driven to the brink, approached Helga's boss, Chad, to express our concerns. We explained that while we were eager and committed to our roles, Helga's constant replanning and her tendency to sabotage our relationships were hindering our progress. Chad listened, but frustratingly, nothing seemed to change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It was only years later that we learned that Helga's conduct was well-known. And there were ongoing efforts to terminate her employment. But she had cleverly initiated lengthy investigation processes that delayed her termination, prolonging our team's suffering.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
You know what? That's what scares me about these people, man. The true narcissists, the people who are like low-key sociopathic, they're not constrained by the same embarrassment that keeps normal people in check, you know?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
This experience solidified my decision to seek new opportunities and leave the stifling atmosphere Helga created. Fortunately, a business restructuring in 2020 allowed me to transfer to a different department under a leader who truly inspired and challenged me. Under her mentorship, I've thrived ascending through various roles over four years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Reflecting on all this, I recognize that Helga taught me invaluable lessons on how not to lead. Despite the hardship, I emerged with a clearer vision of the leader I aspire to be, one who supports, challenges, and respects their team, leveraging intelligence as a tool for collective upliftment, not personal aggrandizement. 100%, beautifully put.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I love that that's what you took away from this experience. You are exactly the kind of person who should be a leader, in my opinion. So he wraps up. Hope you've never worked for a Helga. Well, I work with a Jordan, so that's a close second.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Does it, Gabe? No, can confirm. You don't get this level of quality without making your co-hosts suffer on a daily basis. The Jelga management method. I live by it. It works. Signed, still appreciating the amazing delta between my new boss and Helga.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's a real Jelga move.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, or that the whole point of their leadership is just their own enhancement and promotion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Especially if they have political capital in the company or like Helga, they've somehow engineered things to protect themselves. Then it's really hard to affect change. My big takeaway from all this, the one constant upside to having a terrible boss, you are learning firsthand what not to do when you're in a position to manage people. It's great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
But I will say it takes a certain kind of person to look at it that way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I worked as a therapist in an addiction treatment center that was run on nepotism and ridden with sexism and stunning racism. The owner was CEO and his son-in-law was COO. The CEO was in recovery, started this company, and was heavily involved in the recovery community. The COO was handling operations, which basically meant handling finances.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The COO definitely showed signs of narcissistic personality disorder and was slightly paranoid. My first week, he said that he liked an open workplace and wanted me to be able to come to him for anything. What ensued was a lot of gaslighting, manipulation, and inappropriate comments.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He would do weird things like touch the back of my coworker's leg with a cold water bottle, turn my other coworker's necklace around without asking, and tell people that he wouldn't care if his wife went on a date with another guy. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He also made the most egregious comment to our black female admin by saying, I could really go for some fried chicken and some chocolate milk while alone with her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
One day, they fired another coworker on the spot without having closure with clients, which is unethical. They found out she was looking into starting her own company, and their response was, we need allies, not enemies. Man, the narcissism is strong today, Gabe. Very strong. Narcy vibes top to bottom. As soon as this happened, I realized my job was not safe. That is a smart thing to notice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Way to connect those dots forward. That's hard to do. Also, we were paid as 1099 contractors when really we should have been W2 employees, as we had required hours to be there. When I asked for a raise, I was told I needed to justify it, but I already knew I was making the least with more experience than my counterpart. Also, we were paid with written checks. Shady.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The coworker they fired then started her own practice, and I rented office space from her to see clients on the side, which was always previously encouraged. I also got an invitation to go see a treatment center in another state. I said I was going, and COO Sunnyboy was not okay with it, despite the company being all about networking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
As I was about to get on the plane, I got a call from my admin and she said, he knows, he knows you're renting office space from her and he's pissed. You need to get out. Oh snap. I was never so anxious in all my life. I knew what I needed to do when I got back from this trip. I confronted him and said, I know you know about my side job and who I'm renting from.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He said that he didn't see how we could continue our working relationship when I'm working with people who are only sharing their warped side of a story and painting him as the bad guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's so cartoonishly narcissistic as well. Yeah, silly. He then asked, do you trust me? No, I said. Then this is you quitting. I said, this is you firing me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He withheld my last paycheck. Of course. I showed up to the office demanding it and he never gave it to me. I took them to small claims court, and that got their attention. I asked for $400 more than my normal pay, which was minuscule in hindsight. Later, I started working for another small company that also had a strange culture, to say the least.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
My one male coworker there was well-respected in the field, and he and I were fairly close. The admin from the previous company came with me to this one. One day, a few hours after a virtual team meeting, she sent me a photo of the business's Facebook page where an outraged client had posted my coworker's mugshot. He had been arrested that same day for soliciting prostitution.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
So embarrassing on your company's Facebook page and you can't delete it, I guess. Man, he and the tip stealing chef from question two must have been out getting wasted.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Well, it's funny you say that because she goes on to say, can't make this stuff up. The mental health field is something else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Universally beloved. Even people with master's degrees can be drawn to it, too, I guess. So she wraps up, This madness was one for the books. I'm in my own private practice now, and I'm thriving. Signed, Still reeling from the revealing and unappealing things these touchy-feely people were concealing when they claimed to be healing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's like, what the actual f***?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It shocks me as well because their training involves, or should involve anyway, a lot of introspection, self-work along the way. Like if you go through grad school to become a therapist, right? And you find yourself, I don't know, cheating on your partner or frequenting sex workers or railing lines during the day or whatever it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yes, you'd think so. But then I wonder, maybe those dysfunctional behaviors are what draw a lot of people to this field.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
That's what I can't wrap my head around. I don't know. I can't either. It's a good question. Also, we also don't know the whole story. We don't know if he had a true sex addiction or Whether this was a pattern, I mean, look, maybe he got busted on some weird one-off thing. Who knows?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's your first prostitute, you get busted? If he got busted his one and only time hiring a sex worker, that would be really bad luck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
No, I think that they're just eating up the stage time and they were like failed mimes or something. And they're like, I'm going to enjoy this. They can't just wave somebody through.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Maybe our friend here can enlighten us. Also, these people work in the addiction treatment world. And I am starting to wonder if that part of the mental health industry is just a touch more dysfunctional than the others. I'm thinking about the letter we took last week from the guy who wanted to work in the recovery world.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And remember he had a clinic dangle a job opportunity in front of him so they could, they could just keep running his insurance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And then they kicked him out when they couldn't make money off of him. So is this part of that industry just kind of shady? Who knows, man?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I didn't know that. You never told me that. Really?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Okay. So maybe total lie, but also maybe he was fully on heroin while he was coaching people. That's crazy. I'm curious if anyone listening right now knows the answer to this. If our friend here who wrote in knows, is there more bonker stuff happening in the addiction treatment industry than in the larger mental health field?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Or are we just self-selecting for crazy-ish because it's Feedback Friday? I'm genuinely curious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's so important. Those boards are doing a crucial job in that respect. My other takeaway from the story is that being territorial with your employees never pays off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The moment you as a boss are getting uneasy about your employees, I don't know, getting to know other people in the field or developing perfectly legitimate side hustles or whatever it is, that's a moment to go, okay, why am I so uneasy about this? Is this actually unethical and competitive to me or am I trying to control my staff because I'm insecure?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, leaders like this are playing the short game. They're not playing the long game, right? They're thinking, I need to keep people under my thumb and make sure they never leave me because if they leave me, then I lose. Instead of going, yeah, it's possible that some of our clinicians might eventually go to other centers or they might move into private practice or...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
go into another specialty, but then our network grows, right? If we give them freedom, if we part ways with a lot of goodwill, maybe we refer patients back and forth, or maybe we collaborate on new initiatives, or we share resources, we can all win. I just don't understand why more people don't take that view, even a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
If they're even thinking that consciously about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
When really what they're saying is anyone who wants something different from what I want is threatening to me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Look, I do get it to some degree. You obviously want to retain your employees. You don't want turnover to be super high. You have to protect your staff. But it seems to me that there are two ways to do that. You either go full North Korea and you try to control them. Right, which never works. Which never works, which just produces the opposite response.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Or you create an environment where people do have the liberty to make moves or speak up when they're unhappy or influence the organization. And then they probably stick around much longer because, you know, the workplace is healthy and supportive and high functioning and they have a stake in it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that, honestly, in the middle of all that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
All right, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I worked for a contractor for a few months as an office admin. He was a walking Italian-American stereotype and he embraced it. He carried himself like he was Tony Soprano, but he was more of a Michael Scott mixed with Tony Soprano. It was nauseating. What a mashup. Yeah, so just like a swaggering nincompoop. Interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
A gentle moron in a shiny sharkskin suit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Hilarious. So she goes on, hindsight is 20-20, but there were red flags from the start. In my 20-minute interview with him, I learned about his dead parents, when, where, and how they died. How he lost almost a million dollars because of a former quote-unquote rogue employee. How he was moving from the very nice office we were having the interview in to his buddy's shop 20 minutes away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I thought it was weird he was sharing so much when we just met, but I chalked it up to him being an open person. And honestly, I was desperate to leave my other job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
There's another interesting thing in here about being desperate to leave a job and how that can sometimes blind you to these red flags. It can make you want to brush them off a little too much.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Right. Yeah, because you can start to get sucked into the narrative that the person is wanting to you want to buy into the story that it's great, because you have good reasons to get out of the old story. So he goes on within the first week, I heard four different versions of the story of his parents deaths.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I realized he didn't have 80 employees, like he said in the interview, but just five poor schmucks on his payroll, one of which was me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Three of us worked in a 10 by 6 space. Tony was in the office 10 hours a week max and would spend that time with his feet up on his desk talking on speaker with his golf buddies. He also had extreme rage issues. One time he went from having a calm, normal conversation with an elderly lady about some repairs she needed to screaming red-faced and telling her to go F herself in less than 30 seconds.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He would refer to his employees as retarded toddlers when they would make a mistake or ask a quote-unquote stupid question. He blamed everything that was going wrong on everyone else. He could do no wrong. He was always right. He constantly spoke about loyalty and devotion to his company, that he needed people who would die for his company.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
You're doing bathroom renos on like two bedroom houses. What are you talking about?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
One time we were talking about ghost stories, and he took out a little vial of holy water and started splashing it on himself mid-conversation. He then stood up and kissed the cross of this rosary that was on his wall. I was raised Catholic, so I'm used to some woo-woo things, but this was so random it was hard to contain my laughter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
But I feel like this guy and Dolores would actually hit it off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
How great would it be if we could introduce the villains in Feedback Friday letters to one another and just see if they hit it off?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah, then they write into Feedback Friday and the villains become the heroes. Oh, I would love this. This would be so fun.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Molars. Yeah, exactly. She loved hot dogs. The problem is she also loves Wordle. Right, which is a real bummer. I'm more of an online poker guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
How are we going to make it work? So she goes on, he would make promises of promotions and raises. He filled my head with dreams that were never going to come true. I stuck around for as long as I did because he was very complimentary of my work and seemed genuinely happy with what I was doing for him. Recognition that I never got at any other job.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
One day he accused me and another employee of conspiring against him, then twisted my words right in front of me minutes after I finished talking. That's when I started planning my escape. I applied to a few places and got an interview and then an offer of almost double my salary at a huge company. Nice, well done.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I put in my notice in front of the HR lady because I was afraid that Tony would explode.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
But he didn't explode. Instead, he said, okay, and left for the rest of the day. The next day, he ignored me all morning. I had to ask him the same question three times before he would even acknowledge me. At the end of the day, when it was just me and him, he asked if we could talk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He then went into this whole thing about how he loved me like a daughter and he panicked when I quit because he didn't know how he would go forward without me. He had had the company for 17 years at this point. I was there for four months. Side note, I don't know what's more disturbing, if that was just a tactic to pull on her heartstrings or if he actually meant that. I'm sure it's a tactic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Come on. Or he's like so unstable and like sensitive that I don't know. I don't know what this guy. I explained that I was uncomfortable working for him. I listed the various things he said to customers and to employees and said I knew one day he would turn on me. Wow, that takes courage. I don't know if I would have done that. I would have just quit and gotten out of there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Hey, Jordan and Gabe. Years ago, I was hired to be fresh blood for a brokerage firm branch office that had not exactly evolved with the 21st century. It was predominantly run by men, and the assistants were exclusively women in their late 50s to 60s. One of my coworkers was a woman we'll call Dolores, the self-appointed office manager. Self-appointed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He kept cutting me off, saying I just don't understand him and I shouldn't make assumptions about him. I decided I was not going to stick out my two weeks. The next morning, I wrote up an email reiterating everything I said to him that he didn't listen to and sent it to him and HR, left my keys and company card on his desk, and bounced forever.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I blocked his number because I was afraid of him calling and ripping me a new one. For a week afterwards, I kept getting calls from an unknown number that would drop every time I picked up. It was such a strange and stressful experience that I can laugh about it now, but it truly was an awful four months. I still read that email sometimes and pat myself on the back for having the balls to send it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Signed, still looking for the holy water to cleanse me of the only offer, where I was both the sworn enemy and the golden daughter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Do you really like it or are you just gassing me up the way this guy gassed up our friend for months?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
This place can't run without you. Pardon me while I type up an email. CC Jen on it. Dear Jelga and Jen. We have two employees and one of them is HR.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's funny. This also reminds me of one of the letters we took on our last Bad Bosses episode, the guy who ran a luxury car garage. And then he brought that young woman onto the team and basically love bombed her until she came on full time. You remember?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yep. Interestingly, that guy also said he viewed that listener like a daughter and was like, come on board. Join us. I want you to be part of this company for a long, long time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Exactly. That's what I was getting at earlier. Like what's happening here? Maybe it's both, but even if they do feel fatherly toward them, that's even more reason to treat somebody well, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
The other thing I find fascinating about the story, and it's connected to the thing I mentioned earlier about how being desperate to leave one situation can desensitize you to red flags. She said she stuck around for as long as I did because he was very complimentary of my work and seemed genuinely happy with what I was doing for him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Exactly, which I can totally understand. Being validated at work is powerful, right? And it's important. But if you're starved for validation or you're unusually susceptible to flattery and those compliments do not align with how you're being actually treated at work, that can keep you stuck in a bad situation because it can feel so good to be praised.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Or even if it is genuine, you got to ask if it's coming from somebody who's not treating you in a way that reflects their supposedly high esteem. Like, okay, you like me. You're thrilled with my work. Wonderful. But then why are you screaming at me or why are you accusing me of conspiring against you or not giving me a raise or whatever it is?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
She was a mob wife type in her 60s, had had four molars removed, and loved hot dogs. Okay. And her only social life was her grandchildren and an online word game where she'd often meet men to date. Wow, what a description. I'm picturing Carmela Soprano with a bottle of Heinz in her desk drawer and like a Wordle subscription.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yes. I also find it so creepy that this guy called her nonstop for a week from a private number after she blocked him. So creepy, stressful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
All four of us can parent trap these two into a relation. Is that parent trapping? No. Is that? I guess not because they were never together, but I still like the metaphor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
That's a normal thing to want, right? There's nothing weird about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Like don't hire coked up chefs or janitors or you will see some workplace nudity. That's what I'm taking away.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
That's my backup relish. She divulged all of this information to me within the first seven minutes of meeting her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
That's a little weird. I'm sorry. What did you just say? Did you just say molars? Yeah. Molars? Yeah. Molars. Molars, dude. I've never heard anyone say molars before. What are you talking? Is this a Michigan thing? Maybe. Now I feel self-conscious about it. Oh, I love this moment. This is great. Oh, how the tables, how the molars have been pulled. Okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I don't need this prestidigitation. Just tell me where to make a left and let me get on with my life. I don't understand.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I just did. And you didn't even have to tell me. And by the way, speaking of soldering, I got a very lovely message from our editor, Jace, telling me that I did not pronounce it wrong in England. They say soldering. So fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Frantically books, digital nomad visa for the UK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah. As opposed to the two podcasters who spend eight minutes dissecting how to say the word molar. Molar. At first, Dolores was my pal and was set up as my mentor. Oh, God. Or is it mentor?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
You know what? Just let it. Mentor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Pretend that didn't happen. Once I learned the ropes, though, I didn't need her as much or at all. In her view, my excelling was a slap to the face.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
A tale as old as time. I knew I sealed my fate when I caught a clerical error on some of her paperwork, which would have had huge financial repercussions. When I brought it to her attention, she took it extremely personally and felt I was quote unquote out to get her job. Within the year, I was enemy number one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
How insecure do you have to be to take somebody doing you a favor as a threat?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I distanced myself from Dolores and kept it as professional as I could in an extremely small, gossipy office. She would speak poorly about me to the other assistants, attempt to blacklist me from the more important projects, and was all around unpleasant. I let my management team know, and they basically told me Dolores would be retiring soon and asked if I could just deal with it until she left.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Besides, everyone already knew what she said about me wasn't true.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Then, one week, Delora seemed to turn over a new leaf. She was friendly, conversational, and even chummy towards me. She then quickly gushed to me about a man she met through the apps.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Why do you care? That's so funny.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
No, it doesn't. But that is I don't know if she plays the New York Times brain teasers. It might be more like Candy Crush with like a side of vocab.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
He was an architect in his 60s, successful and extremely good looking, like way too good looking. The disparity between Dolores and her new dude was immense. When she told me he had a British accent, all my alarm bells went off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
She was feeling herself, though. She started wearing makeup, taking care of herself, and even wearing little kitten heels, all in anticipation. Jordan, you wear those when we were here, don't you? Kitten heels.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I think that's, um, those low heels on the shoot. Like it's not like a spike heel, but it's kind of like a cute, I don't actually know, but I think it's too late now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
It's definitely not a heel where they just stick a sticker of a kitten on it that I know for sure. Women's kitten heels, Google image search.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Oh, man. I knew I couldn't say anything because she'd think I just didn't want her to be happy or that she couldn't land a hot guy. So instead, I'd ask open-ended questions, hoping she would connect the dots.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Well, the dots never connected, and the catfish scam took off from there. Still feeling sorry and nervous for this woman, I finally expressed my concerns to a male coworker. When I asked him to be frank with Dolores, he told me, as long as she isn't sending the guy money, let her have her fantasy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Well, the fantasy ended when the week this British supermodel turned architect hotel mogul was going to fly to the States, he ended up in the hospital. A nurse reached out to inform Dolores that she was this guy's power of attorney. Yeah, because that's how nurses are also power of attorney in hospitals. And they needed a wire of $23,000 in order to perform life-saving surgery.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I don't know why I assumed that the nurse was his power of attorney, but yeah, this makes even less sense.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
At that point, she couldn't lie to herself any longer and admitted to everyone, including herself, that the jig was up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
She confessed she knew it was a scam, but she just wanted to feel important and loved. That's pathetic, but yeah. I had an empathy towards Dolores that didn't exist before. It had to be hard being alone. And all any of us really want is to feel loved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Although how somebody can know it's a scam and keep it up just because they want to feel loved is very weird to me because then you're playing a lot. You're basically scamming yourself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I don't know. Hard to say. I'm happy to say she never sent the money, although I feel like she must have sent him something along the way because this guy was around for months and I'm not sure how many love scammers are in it for the long game.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Unfortunately, Dolores became almost intolerable after all this. She went back to hating me, and my only respite was when COVID hit and our office shut down. When she heard I had landed a promotion within the company, she only said, that's good. You weren't happy here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
I mean, that's kind of like the bartender we met in that remote hotel way in the north or whatever. We walked in, there was nobody in the bar, but she's just behind the bar, like on duty waiting for somebody to come in and order a drink.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Why are you complaining, dude? She's being nice now. Why are you complaining?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
Imagine catfishing somebody not to get money out of them, but just to make them tolerable in the kitchenette.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1090: More Workplace Fails and Bad Boss Tales | Feedback Friday
And when you're not super close with them and you don't feel a lot of loyalty toward them, but then you feel bad for them because you're a decent person, that's a hard spot to be in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. After a long, fraught fertility journey, my brother and his wife, Chelsea, are pregnant. They had a pretty devastating miscarriage, and Chelsea was depressed for a year afterward. Now that they're out of the woods and in the second trimester, we've all been super excited for the new baby, and so happy for them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I've mentioned a few times that I'd like to plan the baby shower or help with it, and Chelsea has declined multiple times, saying she wants to do it herself. My mom wanted to help too, but I told her that Chelsea says she wants to do it, let's not be overbearing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Then, this past weekend, Chelsea told me that she was talking to her friends about how she basically has no one to help her with the shower, and that her friends thought it was ridiculous that we weren't helping. She told you that? That's a move. I was shocked. I reminded her that I had asked a bunch of times, including just a few days before she talked to her friends, and she declined.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I also told her again that I would love to plan the shower. Then she started talking about how my mom hasn't asked her either and how her own mom is terrible at throwing parties. I explained that it was my fault my mom hadn't asked because I assumed she didn't want my mom helping either. She deflected at that point and said she just didn't know what she wanted when I had asked her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
One of her friends is an amazing party planner, and I would definitely pick her over me to do this, although this friend lives six hours away and has a new baby herself. I wanted to be involved because I love my sister-in-law and my brother, and I'm over the moon about the new baby. But it doesn't hurt my feelings if she'd rather have her friends throw the shower.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
What bothers me is how she's created this story about being kind of a victim in all of this. That we're uncaring in-laws, and her mother won't help her, and she's telling this to people I know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
This isn't the first time Chelsea has done something toxic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
She planned her destination wedding right on top of my wedding. That's a move.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And invited my husband's ex to do her hair for it, despite not knowing this woman well or being a client of hers, when our cousin is a professional hairstylist and was willing to do it for free.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's a problem, right? That's almost cartoonishly rude. Yeah, that means like I'm going to plan my wedding so that people have to choose between us and only go to one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
If it were a cousin or a second cousin, maybe I could be like, dates are hard to get or whatever. But your sister-in-law, her husband is this woman's brother. That's weird.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah. It's again, like you said, hard for me to wrap my head around unless our friend and her husband couldn't go to her wedding. So it wasn't an issue.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Or maybe that hairstylist is the only one in their state who can do a perfect twisted updo or whatever. I'm grasping at reasons.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, kind of speaks volumes, doesn't it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
She's also been such a bully to my sister that my sister wants nothing to do with her. This has taken a toll on my sister's relationship with my brother, who she used to be really close with. That sucks. That sucks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah. I have a really great relationship with my brother, so it's been better for me and our family to just ignore Chelsea's behavior. Now she wants me to help her friend plan the shower. I can't tell if she's asking because I said she was wrong about not having help, or because she feels like she has to now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
She's also said some mean things to me about her friend's party planning ideas, which makes me feel like she's likely saying some mean things about me to her friend.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Probably a wise policy. So she goes on, But another part of me thinks I should just let it go. She and my brother have had such a heartbreaking journey, and I don't want to make waves. This is supposed to be about her, and I'm making it about me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Here we are at the end. Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? What's the best way forward? Signed, planning the shower without getting drenched.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Dude, I was on Team Chelsea. I was like, this poor woman, that's tough.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
All of which, by the way, apparently happened before the miscarriage.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's not like she can pin all of this questionable behavior on that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
We are hearing that narrative, aren't we, with the whole baby shower thing? Multiple times our friend here offered to help, and it seems that Chelsea couldn't even register that invitation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But to your point a moment ago, if that narrative is an essential one to you, then it's probably because you've been hurt in some way. So she must be getting more out of the belief that no one is really there for her than she thinks she would get by accepting their help and having the baby shower that she says she wants.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I think the real question is how do I handle this person in general in my life beyond the shower? The problem with all of this is you guys are walking on eggshells because you don't want to end up on the wrong side of Chelsea. You don't want to make waves. And you also don't want to compromise your relationship with your brother. And I get it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It sucks that standing up to her might mean not being as close with him. But that's also because he is probably cramping around her, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, fair. But he obviously knows that at least one other important person in his life, his other sister, won't talk to his wife anymore.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And he's probably having to overlook a ton of questionable behavior in order to keep his marriage intact.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But that's how a lot of families operate. And then everyone else pays the price. Whereas if he were willing to say, honey, I love you. I am here for you. I'm on your team. But I'm seeing these things in my family. There are a few things you need to look at. I think your relationships with my sisters could be better. You seem to have this narrative that they don't want to help all of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
If you can see it, she might be forced to actually confront some of the stuff if you were to say that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Right, absolutely. It's like you're kicking up more data, even if you don't get the outcome that you want. But what you just said is so important for every kind of relationship, because all relationships go through conflict and tension, and they could always be better. But what you just said is so true.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You have to risk provoking somebody else and letting them deal with the feelings that you stir up. And then you also have to risk provoking yourself and be willing to bear the feelings that you kick up inside of you and the ones you have to bear on their behalf. in order to find out if the relationship has the potential to improve. I think that's just one of the hardest things to do in life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's kind of a key skill.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Man, that is a great metaphor.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Also an excellent point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Which version of distant do you want?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You know, the more we talk about this, Jordan, I am thinking that maybe it would be wise of her to stick with the baby shower planning and just knock the baby shower out of the park so she can give Chelsea one big gift and show her that she was really there for her in exactly the way that Chelsea said she wanted, which would not just buy her goodwill for when she decides to have this difficult conversation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
but which potentially could rewrite this narrative that everybody abandons her. That's just going to remove one huge objection from Chelsea so that when they do sit down, Chelsea can't turn around and say, I was right. You did exactly what I said you would. You know, this party could be a very useful thing. It might also be the right thing to do.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And then after that's done, then they can sit down and talk.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's a great instrument, though. I like the sound coming out of it.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabriel, Two years ago, my wife became close friends with another woman. We also hung out with her and her husband regularly. In that time, I suspected something was off. My wife often took private calls with this friend, and once, during a party, I had to force open our locked bedroom door and found her friend leaning against it while my wife was in the ensuite bathroom.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, that's my emergency meth. I just I didn't have a time to take a micro nap today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
On another occasion, my aunt went over to their house to do their laundry for them. Yes, she really does that. Oh my god. And asked where their son was. They said they had been up all night having a little fun and had to have someone pick him up to get him out of the house because they couldn't take care of him.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Addicts who can't even do their own laundry. I know, the gall. Can't separate the whites and the colors.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
These freaking people, man. They also have one of their friends living with them, rent-free, of course, who recently got out of jail for God only knows what. This person is dirty, but I don't think is dangerous. With the kids in the house? Needless to say, this is not a great environment for my four-year-old cousin. I truly feel that there need to be repercussions for their erratic behavior.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I know that if my cousin's wife finds out or even thinks that Brad's mom called TPS, she'll immediately pull her son away from her, which would break her heart. I also worry because I don't know if a foster home is going to be a better environment than where he is now. He's loved, he's fed, and my aunt does everything she can to get him out of the house as much as she can.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But I know he's going to have some core memories that are questionable at best.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
The math here is tricky, man. I've tried to talk to my family about this, but our unspoken family motto is to just shove it down and never talk about the things that are uncomfortable.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Interesting theme on today's episode, eh? This is kind of like how the family's dealing with Chelsea, right? Yes. I want to do what's right by my little cousin, but don't know if it's even my place to step in. My husband and I have been together for 12 years. We have super stable and successful jobs, and we have no children of our own.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
We've contemplated taking my cousin in to provide a more stable environment, but also don't feel that it's our responsibility. We also live three states away and wouldn't even know where to begin with that process. What should we do? Signed, listen to our chagrin as the next of kin, or take it on the chin that my little cousin is growing up in a den of sin.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
You're referring to the fact that I tried to rhyme cousin with sin? Yeah, yeah, that is tragic. Or you're talking about the letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I never received a convincing explanation of what they were doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that these two stories are playing out side by side in the same family is somehow, it just heightens the tragedy, doesn't it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it is fascinating, right? She did say that he has really low self-esteem, which makes sense if you've never had to work very hard at anything. I think that's a common outcome.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I think not having that fully formed personality, not having any purpose or trajectory in your life, that can be its own kind of wound.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's got to be one of the things he's numbing with his addiction.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
As far as I can tell, man married to woman, yes. Okay, got it. So he goes on. To understand what was happening, I recorded our bedroom for a couple of weeks and even at one point involved my 17-year-old son as I suspected that he had witnessed them kiss.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
The other option is you could talk to a few other people in your family and put together a little intervention of sorts. I mean, you could literally say, look, I know our family tends to sweep things under the rug. I get it. I don't want to deal with this either, but I am genuinely worried about my little cousin. I'm sure you agree that he deserves much better than this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And I can't just stand by and watch his parents do cocaine all night and neglect him and put him in contact with shady ex-cons and pawn him off on Aunt Marley's all the time.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I feel very strongly that we need to sit down with Brad and his wife and talk to them about all of this and encourage them to get clean, to make them understand that the whole family sees that they're in trouble, that they're hurting their son, and that if they don't change things, we might have to intervene more strongly and nobody wants that. And I would really love your help in doing that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and who knows? Maybe their family will be very grateful for this. They just need a leader. It'll take some leadership on your part to get your family to help you, but they might also fall in line when they see somebody who has the courage to do it. So I think it's worth it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, God, what an image. Yeah. Wow. I didn't even think about that. They're like roommates and he has to hang out with this creep who's in their house. Look, my understanding is that CPS tries to keep families together as much as possible. So calling them does not automatically mean that your cousin would end up in a foster home.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
If they decided that he couldn't live in the house anymore for a period of time, I think the more likely scenario is that they would place him with Brad's mom, which is probably the best place for him, and if for some reason that's not an option, they would probably try to place him with you.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm assuming someone in the family is going to be able to take your little cousin, and the system would try to reunite him with his parents as soon as possible... That might be conditional on regular drug tests or something like that. So this doesn't necessarily mean that you would be destroying your cousin's life or anything, if you called.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I do think we need to talk about whether to take your little cousin in yourself. I don't know. I would hold off on pitching that. I think you are hesitating as well. I completely agree. Not your responsibility, even if you do love him. And if you don't want to be his guardians, you shouldn't. He's not your child. He's their child. And it's incredibly sad. But that is the reality of the situation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It would also be a very long and complicated process. It would probably involve Brad and his wife's support. I mean, they're going to have to agree to let you be guardians, I think, unless there's some criminal investigation or CPS intervenes or something like that. It doesn't sound like you're going to get that. So as we often do with stories like yours, we just have to acknowledge that
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
that there is a timeline where Brad and his wife continue to be far from perfect parents and their son grows up with some very real issues. And you guys have to watch that play out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And another fascinating theme of today's episode, you're going to have to bear the sadness and the anger, the grief that come with that and just be there for him however you can and stay close with him as he gets older. It is so tragic. It's almost hard for me to put words to, but it is not your tragedy. And there is a practical limit to what you can do here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Did he just ask him to, like, keep an eye on mom in general? Did he just ask him, like, hey, do you know anything about mom? Did you see anything weird?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is Bose noise-canceling headphones.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Look, I've tried a few different headphone brands over the years. There are a lot of good ones out there. The tech is insanely strong now. But I've never found ones quite as good as Bose at this price point anyway. They're not super, super cheap, but they're not obscene either. And they have a ton of different models at different price points. This has been a game changer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It's changed flights for me. Just going on an airplane, you need noise-canceling headphones. It makes working in cafes possible. And as you know, a lot to filter out in cafes in Los Angeles when the person next to you is taking a Zoom meeting and the people next to you are watching YouTube videos on speakerphone. I can only survive in the city with my Bose. They're great also for working out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I bring them to class before class begins. I'm working out with my bows. I kind of don't leave the house without them now. Just a great tool. So I wanted to recommend that for you guys. We're going to link to them in the show notes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, you must have a more advanced model than I do, because I don't think mine do that. That's cool.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I eventually confronted my wife, and she dismissed my concerns, was very angry that our son was involved, and claimed that I had a mental problem. I stopped recording the bedroom, but I was still suspicious. Months later, I brought my concerns to this friend's husband and was shocked to learn that he shared similar suspicions and had a strong desire to install cameras in his house.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
All right, next up. So our last question today is actually an update on the rubber mallet story from episode 926. Yes, all right. Been waiting for this. So I assume everyone listening right now knows this story by now because we've talked about it so many times.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But in case you don't, long story short, a listener wrote in some time back because her ex-boyfriend, who was a violent alcoholic, he was physically, emotionally, and sexually abusive. He cheated on her a bunch when they were together. They broke up and sometime later he's out one night with his new girlfriend. She finds out that he's cheating on her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
They get into a fight in the car and then she goes into her trunk and famously grabs a rubber mallet and takes out his knees with it in the street. And then runs him over with her car. Twice. Yeah, that's the part that destroyed us.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yes. And our response was stay away because this guy has got to figure this out himself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm glad you said that because she wrote in. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. When you started your top five countdown on your end of year episode back in December, I wondered if the now infamous rubber mallet story would be included. I couldn't help but smile when I heard it made the list. I'm glad my story made such an impact on you and your listeners.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Definitely a silver lining after such a wild experience to live through. And now the story is immortalized as lore on my favorite show. Truly the gift that keeps on giving. I still think about this maybe once a month. Anytime I see a rubber mallet, certainly. So I thought I'd give you guys a little update on my ex. Our mutual friend let me know that he did end up losing his foot.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And while his legs don't work well, he is able to walk. He often uses crutches to get around and still experiences chronic pain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I know, stop. This can't happen again. But yeah, this is what happens when your girlfriend treats you like a house for sale sign. Just bam, bam, bam into the floor, dude.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Despite all of this, he's still up to his old tricks. Old habits die hard, don't they? Womanizing and causing chaos wherever he goes. He's a charming guy, so I'm sure he has some cute quips about his legs to draw women in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I had hoped this experience would be his come-to-Jesus moment and he would turn his life around, but I guess that hasn't been the case. All the more reason to be grateful I didn't reach out to him last year when all of this went down. Some people just cannot break out of their toxic cycles, but that's his burden to bear.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Your dating coach background is coming out in the darkest way possible. As far as the girlfriend goes, she of the rubber mallet and hit and run, I haven't heard or asked for any updates on where her case stands. I'm just trying to stay out of it now. It's not my business, and I don't want to invite any more chaos from these people into my life.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I have some used ones that are great for this purpose. Sell them straight to him. I'll help you set them up. My son's really good at it. Yeah. Months after that, I finally confirmed their emotional and physical relationship by finding a conversation on my wife's phone that hadn't been deleted.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I have a crazy story to share, and I've chosen to just leave it at that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
And finally, a quick update on me. This last year was a challenging but rewarding one with lots of ups and downs. I was not successful in shielding myself from another narcissistic partner, but I got out of it before it escalated. Ooh, interesting. Good job. It's all learning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, well done there. I continued my healing journey through therapy and learned many more hard lessons. I've gotten a lot better at setting boundaries, standing up for myself, and not only recognizing red flags, but being proactive about responding to them. I got a great job managing a fine dining restaurant, which allows me to pursue my side hustles of music and modeling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Wow. Way to cut her down to size, dude. We're just like building her up and then I'm sure she's over there laughing right now. I hope so. And the best news is I just bought my first house. It's been very rewarding to see the fruits of my labor manifest this way, and I'm so excited to put my dream home together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Huge accomplishments all around. I still continue to listen to y'all each week. As always, thanks for the thoughtful insights, the willingness to be vulnerable, and the intermittent chuckles along the way. Keep up the incredible work, and I can't wait to see what 2025 has in store for each of you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Signed, still staying away from the scene of the crime of my one-time guy who almost died and can confirm he's still total slime. But I continue to climb.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, very. But if he were the kind of person who could do that, then he probably wouldn't also be all these other terrible things. Abusive, cheating, addicted and all this stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I want to say that if you lose your foot and you're in constant pain and you're still not at least a little curious about how this happened to you, then probably nothing will wake you up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That's true. It's an interesting question. If you're not consciously aware of something, but intuitively you know that there's something not quite right with your mental health or whatever, it might just be like a constantly low-grade feeling of distress or tension or something like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
for sure. It is textbook definition of gaslighting. Yes. Her friend's marriage ended immediately. My wife claims that she's sorry and is now helping her friend, quote, as a friend, navigate her divorce. That's where that goes. You are lit up right now. Look at that smile. You're so happy about that soundbite. That's exactly where that goes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I've been sitting on that one for literally years at this point. Through my initial spying, I discovered that her friend had serious emotional trauma and a history of cocaine use, which had strained her marriage. Is that what they were doing in the bathroom? So they were doing blow in the bathroom. It could be. Potentially. Unclear. They could have been doing something potentially worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
What's worse than cocaine?
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I discovered that her friend had serious emotional trauma and a history of cocaine use, which had strained her marriage. My wife had taken on the role of counselor for her, which might explain some of the closeness, but it doesn't fully address the betrayal I feel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I know it was wrong to invade my wife's privacy, and it caused me emotional trauma to do so, but how does one confirm their suspicions otherwise? And should I trust her, that they are only friends now? Signed, trying to discuss whether I can still trust, when my wife is still pretty sus.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah, they sure are. So what you're getting at is, is he questioning his right to feel hurt because this other woman needed support and his wife played that role for her? Is that what you're saying?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And it doesn't change the fact that they were getting down in the en suite bathroom, probably or unclear. Now I'm confused about what was happening in the bathroom, making out in the hallway or whatever they were doing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But it might be meaningful that he's trying to calibrate his anger a little bit, his hurt, because this other woman needed support.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Oh, this is about the bedroom?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
No. Based on the information you've shared with us, I don't think I would.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Look, unless something changed between them and they've arrived at a new place, which I guess that's possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But given that this was an affair, it's messy and confusing to still be spending time, especially this much time with this person. And if she's saying this because she wants to get back together with our friend here, then continuing to spend time with this woman, not exactly helping things. No, it's counterproductive and disrespectful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
It doesn't sound like she's doing anything to show him, look, we're not involved anymore. I've closed that door. Sorry. Terrible metaphor, given the circumstances. I apologize for that. But like, I'm in therapy. I'm trying to figure out why I did this. Yeah, she's not.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
I'm still thinking about his son, Jordan. I'm wondering why he involved him, if it was really the only option he felt he had or if there was maybe more to that somehow.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
His son is 17, so he is almost an adult. But still, even if he were like 45 years old and his parents were going through this, I still think a situation like this calls for some boundaries, some thoughtfulness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
He's like smack in the middle of his parents separation because mom cheated and he potentially knew before dad did. It's messy. Yeah. The other thing that's in the background of the story is the wife's orientation. He didn't comment on that. So I'm not sure if he knew that his wife was into women or if that was news to him. But it is interesting that that isn't a bigger part of the letter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
Her orientation does not change the fact that she cheated on our friend here. But just to acknowledge every possible angle here, if she is in the process of figuring out her orientation, maybe this affair was part of that. And she's confused. Maybe she's exploring something that's new for her. Again, doesn't forgive what she's done to him. Definitely doesn't justify the gaslighting.
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1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
That's what you get when you book with points.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1138: Her Exposed Bi Affair? It's Over! She Swears! | Feedback Friday
But I guess maybe we can make a little room for the possibility. And it's just a possibility. I could be totally wrong. that his wife is trying to figure herself out, and it's just happening in this very messy, imperfect, and ultimately hurtful way.
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1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
What a character. I also love how he capitalizes every fifth word in his website copy. Like, okay, Benjamin Franklin.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
We have a killer lineup at the Chuckle Pit.
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1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I hear that. But at the same time, when you hear multiple rumors from multiple sources that all arrive at the same conclusion, it's like... It does carry some weight, especially in a small town where word gets around pretty easily, but that doesn't make it true.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
These mugs are pretty amazing. Shout out to Stephanie for these awesome holiday gifts. We're big fans over here. Definitely not official Cabanito merch. Yes. We won't tell the company, but I love that she made these custom mugs for us. They're super nice.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
And you still face the fact that proving a case like this against somebody like Bob is pretty difficult.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
So the best way to stop somebody like Bob in Corbin's view is to help as many people that he might be hurting as possible. Maybe somebody will be willing to step forward at some point and say, yeah, this guy exploited me. He coerced me into spending time with his clients. He didn't pay me what he promised or he paid me under the table, gave me a Chevy Malibu or whatever it is.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
The odds of that happening increase with the number of people who manage to escape this guy's clutches. So again, Corbin would encourage you to make personal connections with some of these people while you activate some nonprofits and see what they advise. Now, this can work on a few levels. In one way, it can provide immediate practical help to anybody who's being exploited.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
It can find them housing. It could connect them with a different job. It could help them get an attorney, whatever it is they need. And at the same time, it could kickstart a numbers game for getting a good cooperating witness down the line, if, of course, there is truly illegal activity going on here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
All right, next up. Hello, Jay Dizzle and G Rizzle. Oh, gosh. That's a new one. Jay Diz and G Rizzle. I actually really like it. I won't be mad if I see that again. He goes on. A couple days ago, I locked myself out of the house. My family and I live in a semi-rural area. We're house-sitting for a couple who's out of the country.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And after calling over five locksmiths, I finally got one who would come out. The company said the cost would depend on many things, so they couldn't give me a quote over the phone. When the locksmith got to my house, he took a look at the lock and said it would be $475 to try and pick it, or $675 to drill into the deadbolt and then replace it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Part of the fee was a $129 service charge for driving all the way out to me, which I would need to pay even if he didn't do anything. My wife and one-year-old were out running errands and I was worried we wouldn't be able to get back in the house. I panicked, hard, and told him I didn't know how I could pay that. He just said, sorry, that's what it is. I ended up paying him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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It took him less than five minutes to get in. I got ripped off, bad. After he left, I really freaked out. I'd been so stupid. There were so many less expensive options. Heck, it would have been cheaper to break a window and buy a new one. After calming down a few days later, I realized that I didn't tell this guy to F off because I'm so scared of conflict.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I also think the fact that this isn't our house and that the couple who owns it weren't available contributed to my fog and panic. If I were in touch with the anger I feel after these moments pass, I know I would be ready to stand up to someone like this and negotiate. But that's just not how I'm wired. I'm a conflict-averse kind of guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But that fear of conflict just hurt my family's finances significantly. I know you have many episodes on communicating and negotiating, but I don't feel like I have many opportunities to practice playing hardball in my daily life. My wife and I argue sometimes, sure, but there aren't any real stakes because I know we're on the same team at the end of the day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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The only practice I can think of is going to haggle at a car dealership all the while knowing I'm just going to walk away. That's funny. There's the answer. Just go to a car dealership and pretend you want to buy a Ford Focus like once a week. Yeah, exactly. Problem solved.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
How do I prepare for these rare situations where I'm vulnerable and actually need to step up? Any tips on being in high stakes negotiations? Signed, try not to fold or get rolled or controlled by these cold bros who are after my billfold.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Also, I got to say, just to put this guy at ease a little bit, the locksmith industry is notoriously shady. It's riddled with scams or just like sketchy practices in general. I've read a bunch of articles about this over the years. It's gross business from what I can tell.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Oh, man. Yeah. And if a vendor says, yeah, I can't give you a quote until I get there, then I would just keep calling more vendors and try to get somebody who can commit somewhat. I actually had to call a locksmith recently to break into a lockbox that stopped working. And the guy told me on the phone how much it would be in advance.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Maybe lockboxes are different from actual locks, but I feel like a lot of locksmiths out there are on the level.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Incredible one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Oh man, that's a good point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
The other lesson is to keep a lockbox on the property. So if you ever lock yourself out again, you don't need a locksmith, but I'm sure you've already thought of that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Or maybe he was already beating himself up for locking himself out of the house in the first place. Maybe that brought up some embarrassment or self-judgment. So by the time this locksmith arrived, emotions might have already been running pretty high.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Or maybe when they didn't answer your call, that made you feel alone in this problem. Like you didn't have any backup, right? It was all on you. And maybe that's part of what's so stressful about these moments.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Interesting. So you're saying like sometimes our brains amp up the stakes when they're not really real to the point where things stop making sense. Right. That could be part of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
On a related note, I'm also interested in that fog he described. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that his first feeling is just pure panic, right? Just anxiety. And then the fear kicks in. What am I going to do? How am I going to tell this dude to F off? What are other people going to think? And then this fog sets in and it sounds like it's almost like a mild dissociation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Maybe it sounds like the freeze or fawn response to stressful situations. Yeah, it does. But it might also be a way to ward off these stressful feelings or distance himself from them.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Yet. But, you know, a really important piece of that and something else I'm really interested in is this anger that he describes. Yeah, I think it's a really important element here. So he said that if he were in touch with the anger he feels after these moments pass, then he would be able to do all sorts of things.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
He'd be able to stand up to someone like this and tell them to F off or negotiate down. I think he's right that this panic, this fog, they are short-circuiting his cognition. They're making it hard to access his very appropriate and potentially quite useful anger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Right. So one way to look at this is that his anger is the byproduct of not standing up for himself. So the anger has probably built up over time because it's not getting discharged or worked through in some process of productive conflict.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Another way to look at it is that his anger, even when it's warranted, like when a vendor is literally scamming him, that emotion might feel shameful or awkward or even dangerous to him. There might be something unpleasant to him about just being worked up at all. Maybe there are some judgments associated with that as well, I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
And so shrinking away from conflict might also be a way to skirt around that feeling so he doesn't have to really feel it in the first place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Which, by the way, doesn't just mean tolerating your own thoughts and feelings, but also the other person's thoughts and feelings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Totally. That has to be okay to some degree for you to be able to protect yourself. But you might also have to deal with someone else's judgment or their disappointment or their annoyance or whatever it is that this guy might have thrown back at our friend here if he had to put his foot down.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
All of those things, I think, were in play in this moment. And they can be so overwhelming that they produce this feeling that he calls panic. And then they get worse and they produce this feeling he calls fog. But to your point, Jordan, what he's actually in touch with is probably this more primordial feeling called tension.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
So the more he can build up his capacity to bear that, the easier the nuts and bolts of conflict will become.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Dark Jordan making a strong appearance today.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I live in Puerto Rico with my husband and 12-year-old son in a condo we own in a large building. My son is neurodivergent. He doesn't have any interest in sports, and he's not a studious kid. But he is passionate about business and earning money, so he can buy a radio-controlled car or a 3D printer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I've supported his entrepreneurial interests by teaching him about how businesses are run, supply and demand, taxes, how to interact with customers. We watch Shark Tank together, stuff like that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Just invest that and there's your college fund.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Or he just learns how to do something more useful than going to college. But that's a different episode of this podcast. Not even going to need college at this point. So the letter goes on. Since he was eight, I've helped him set up stands to sell goods in the lobby of our building. He's sold fruit kebabs, necklaces, and 3D printed toys from his printer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Every time he set up his stands, all the residents of the building have been very supportive and enjoyed him and his products. Some even pay extra to support his endeavors. No one has ever complained. Now my son is saving up to buy a new and better 3D printer to upgrade his business and his computer skills. Dude, this kid is amazing. He is going to be running a 3D printing startup one day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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A couple months ago, however, he set up a stand in the lobby only to be told by the building's security guard that he cannot sell there. We decided to follow the rules and close up shop.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
The next day I spoke with the president of the board, and he said there's a rule that people can't sell in the common areas of the building, even though the actual wording of the rule is that people can't sell stuff in the activity room, which is a separate room from the lobby. I asked if we could make an exception for residents who are 16 years old or younger.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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He and the other board members said that they would be in support of that. But after a vote from the board, the president said it would take too long and too much money to amend the rule, so they would not pursue the amendment. I'm ready to fight for this, but I'm not willing to pay thousands of dollars for a lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I'm also considering doing the stands anyway and just paying the fine for breaking the rules. The neighborhoods here are all gated, so we can't set up a stand in a nearby park or anything like that. What can I do here? Can the building call the cops for something like this? I don't want to be arrested in front of my son.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Agreed. Can I send a kindly written email a hundred times a day to each of the board members asking them to reconsider, or is that harassment?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Any Dark Jordan ideas? Why do you encourage them, guys? Signed, stopping this board in its tracks, or maybe going behind their backs so my son can count his stacks and enjoy the wind at his back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I love these ideas. Here's another idea. If your son absolutely cannot do his stand in the building, maybe he shifts to selling door to door. My sister and I used to do that in our condo growing up as kids. I used to teach a bunch of the neighbors in the building how to use the computer when computers really took off in the 90s.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
And my sister used to sell handmade bracelets to all the people in the building. And we actually made a pretty penny, the two of us. So, you know, who knows? Maybe your son would have even more success that way. He could make a personal connection with neighbors. Maybe he even tells them this whole story like, hey, so the HOA shut down my stand because they're dicks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
But I'm really passionate about 3D printing and I love doing what I do and I want to upgrade and buy a better one. And I want to be able to pay for my purchases myself. So I'm selling these cool keychains or whatever it is he makes. If I'm an adult and a kid tells me that at my door, I'm going to feel like a really bad person if I say no to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Whereas it might be easier to walk past a stand in the lobby, you know, on your way out to the garage or whatever. Although they were supporting him there too. But I think door-to-door, he might do even better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I also really like your idea of doing the stands anyway and just paying the fine. That is another way of looking at this problem. It's just like a business case, right? If your son sells $100 worth of product and the HOA finds him 20 bucks or whatever every time they catch him, then maybe your son treats it like a cost of doing business.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
And maybe he uses that as motivation to sell even more so that he minimizes the hit that he takes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I got to say, Jordan, the more we talk about this, the more excited I'm getting for this kid to get a little mini MBA in trying to solve this problem. It's very cool.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Way to go, Bev. I love that. She put you in the driver's seat and then she backed you up when you needed it. Dot, dot, dot. 25 years later, when you're standing in front of your door and there's a locksmith who's going to screw you over, you have some muscles built up to stand up to those people.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I returned Duke Nukem at Babbage's in 1997. I got this. That's right. I've got this. Exactly. On that note, I do have one other thought for you. When you sit down with your son to talk about all of this, maybe you hold off on pitching all of these solutions and make some room for him to come up with some ideas himself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Because Jordan's story just illustrated, ultimately, this is about teaching your son, right? It's about turning this obstacle into a lesson. So it would be really cool if you said to him, so here's what we're dealing with. I think we can get creative here. I think we can find some ways to change the rule or work around the rule. I have some ideas, but I want to know what you think, Mr. CEO, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
How can we be clever? What would the sharks on Shark Tank do? You know, if you were one of the sharks, what would you want an entrepreneur you were going to invest in to do? Let's think through this together and see what he comes up with before you tell him the answer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 33-year-old woman, and I just had my first baby about six months ago. My husband and I feel so lucky because our son is perfectly healthy, and he loves the school that we enrolled him in, so neither of us feels guilty about returning to work. That's great. But wait, he's six months old and he's in school. I'm so confused. I was confused by this, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I think maybe she means like a mommy and me class or something. But even six months is pretty early for that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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That must be it. Yeah. She must have given birth to Stewie from Family Guy. I don't know. So she goes on. I've been with my company for over 10 years and I've either been promoted or made strategic lateral moves every two to two and a half years to continuously level up. I spent the past five years laser-focused on building relationships and demonstrating impact.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I now have a solid reputation, which has kept me safe from multiple rounds of layoffs and restructures while many of my peers have been demoted or moved to other departments. I achieved more than my average peer when I was eight and a half months pregnant and sleeping half the day. I could probably coast for the next year and still be on track for a promotion.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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You sound like a rock star, so maybe you would have a baby who starts kindergarten at six months old? Yeah, watch, her baby's going to write into the show in a couple years. Like, hey, I'm trying to hit puberty before I turn six. How do I get there? Yeah, hitting some roadblocks. So she goes on, but I now feel like I'm stagnating at work and getting bored.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But then I'm not sure how much more to take on with a baby at home. I love my son and I want the time that we spend apart during the week to mean something. I don't want to just collect a paycheck between drop-off and pickup. We're in the thick of a sleep regression right now and I want to engage in my career while also being realistic about how much I can do on four hours of sleep.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Do you have any advice for how a new parent can realistically continue to professionally develop? Any advice for sustainable, flexible habits that I can work on to help me keep growing? Signed, still trying to climb when my little one demands my time, and I've said goodbye to a normal bedtime.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
He actually already wrote me. He listens to the show the second it comes out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Sure. Yeah. So it goes early on Thanksgiving morning while driving to Dulles Airport for my flight to Texas where I was to meet my mother. I received a call from a U.S. official who put her on the phone. Son, I am on a U.S. government plane and free, she said. I don't know what to say. So happy beyond words.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Alyssa's final idea for you, since this stage of your life is requiring you to step back and look at your career in a new way, this would also be a really good time to think about your longer-term vision for yourself. She's a big fan of journaling.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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She said writing for 10 minutes a day about your aspirations as a parent, but also in your career, that'll give you some really good insights about where you're going with all of these little habits that we've been talking about.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
And it'll also probably give you more energy and more purpose because you'll have a better sense of what you're actually trying to achieve and how what you're doing now in this period fits into that picture. But Alyssa wanted you to know you do not have to do all of this. That might just make you feel even more overcommitted. So her advice is to just do one thing and see what works for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
And then you can just adjust as you go.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
For so long, I lived with the constant fear that one day I might receive the unthinkable news of my mother's imprisonment, or worse, just as I lost my father over two years ago. But when I heard my mother's voice, hope prevailed, and the long-held darkness lifted. That fear and the unthinkable are no longer part of my life. At the U.S.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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So my recommendation of the week is a new show on Amazon Prime Video called On Call. This show just dropped yesterday. It is awesome. It's about a pair of patrol cops who are responding to calls in Long Beach, California, but the main cop in the story has a really intense backstory and she gets into all kinds of situations while she's on duty.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And then she's also processing and unraveling this interesting mystery in her past. It's just very solid entertainment. The reason I found out about it is that half the season was directed by my dear friend Brenna Malloy. Brenna is an insanely talented director. She directs a lot of cop shows, a lot of legal shows.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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She also produced On Call and really helped develop the whole look and feel of the show, which is so strong. It's so good. Her TV episodes are always incredible. Brenna, by the way, also produced my short film last year. She taught me so much about filmmaking and pretty much everything I know about directing I learned from her. She's a really good teacher.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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So if you like elevated cop stuff, if you want to go on a wild ride, if you're just looking for something fun to watch over the weekend, I would definitely go check out On Call. You can find it streaming on Amazon Prime Video, and we're going to link to it in the show notes as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Hi, Jordan. I just listened to your new interview with Ryan Holiday, but that was episode 1086, by the way, and thought it was excellent. I could respond to lots of parts of that talk, but I'll pick one. The question of spending time with your kids. On one hand, you're correct. Time with your kids is priceless, and once lost, cannot be recovered.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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On the other hand, sometimes you do have to tell them that, yes, some things are more important than their immediate wants. Addressing that needs to be age-appropriate, but kids do need to learn that they are not the center of the universe, however close to it they may be. A simple, if dramatic, example. I used to work a couple blocks from the World Trade Center, about a five-minute walk.
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But on September 11th, 2001, I was stuck in a cheesy Ramada Inn on the outskirts of Wilmington, Delaware, making sure that the 13 people who worked for me were alive and home safely.
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I talked briefly to my 9-year-old son and 7-year-old daughter, but I had to move on to do something important, and my wife had to handle the explanations after I hung up, which was especially tough because the attack made it extremely hard to even get a call to connect that day.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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More interestingly, we all make a few really big decisions in our lives, whether and whom to marry, whether to have kids, whether to start a podcast or as I'm doing to pursue a master's degree in retirement. The biggest and best decision I made in my life was around 1995.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Joint Base in San Antonio, Texas, I watched my mother descend the plane's stairs, supported by a U.S. diplomat and greeted by a military commander in uniform. A wave of emotions washed over me and I ran toward my mother. We embraced, tears streaming down our faces, overwhelmed by the reality of our long-awaited reunion. Her first words? Thank God I'm here with you and I won't be alone when I die.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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We were sitting around the dinner table, the four of us talking about a potential family activity, maybe a hike or a visit to the beach. That's when my son eviscerated me, without meaning to, in one short sentence. Daddy, that will be great, he said. We can do it when you visit us next weekend. My three-year-old had no idea that I lived with him and his mother and his sister.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I left for work before he got out of bed and came home after he was asleep. He only saw me on Saturdays and Sundays and he thought I was a visitor. I vowed then that I would change, and I did. I left for work even earlier, you can always get a seat on the 447 AM to Grand Central, and I came home in time for dinner with my kids. I made it to every swim meet and every concert, and I loved it.
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I wasn't perfect, I did have to miss a few dinners, but they were rare, and it hurt. But why was this the best and maybe most important decision I made? Because in 2010, we took our son to university and helped him move his stuff into his dorm room, get settled, meet his roommate, and do all the stuff you do as a freshman. Ten days later, our son was dead. Oh my god.
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He drank too much, made a stupid decision, another one, after the one to drink too much, and fell six floors to his death from his dorm window. I was there the next morning for a meeting. He went to my alma mater where I was on a board. and I had the distinct horror of having to identify my son's body for the police. My life was changed forever.
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I thought it was over, which was not true, but it was forever not the same. You and Ryan Holiday, I know, understand the value of time with family. I think you also understand the challenge of balancing interests. So, have kids early if you want them. Don't hold off till the trade-offs suck. Spending time with kids when you're 25 means not partying.
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Spending time with kids when you're 50 means big economic and career opportunity costs. Don't put yourself in that position. But if you do put yourself in that position, take the time with the kids. You can't get it back, and you will miss it when it's gone. Thanks for indulging me and letting me ramble. Signed, Grateful I Realized What Matters Before My Heart Was Shattered.
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Shattered and mended my heart all at once. This has been more than a reunion. It's the restoration of a piece of my soul. Words cannot fully express my gratitude. That's quite a passage.
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Dear Jordan and Gabe, I live by a large church built in 1800. My husband has been involved with this church since childhood. We were the last couple to get married there. Eventually, the church had very few followers, and my husband assisted in selling it. The gentleman who bought the church, we'll call him Bob, is a charming businessman and event organizer from a large city.
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Bob told my husband that he envisioned turning the church into a not-for-profit art gallery slash theater to host art and comedy shows. It all sounded suitable for the most part. My husband was desperate and felt this was a good fit because it seemed better than living next to a church that needed extensive upkeep and repair.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Since then, I have learned more about Bob's reputation and business practices. He's bought multiple properties in our area and surrounding towns, fixed them up, and rented them out. That's not the problem. The problem is the rumors that he has been involved in human trafficking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I'm not sure of all the details, but it seems law enforcement either did not pursue the allegations or possibly didn't have enough evidence, and the charges were dropped. Bob has hosted a few events in town during the summer, including comedic performances, a DJ set, and women posing on stage. The women were in swimsuits or very revealing clothing, and...
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I've been told the performances were subpar. Euphemism for... I mean, is there a par for this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Anyway, continue. Another concerning piece of information is that one of the potential future tenants of the church has a history of being a sex worker and has a young daughter about eight years old. There are rumors that Bob has interacted with the child in ways that some describe as grooming behavior. This triggered me to investigate further.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
When I looked up Bob on social media, he initially came across as a legitimate businessman involved with some charities. But further digging revealed that he's hosted events in the large city he's from where young women meet financially well-off men under the guise of empowering women.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
While I have no issue with women networking or dating wealthy men, it seems like something that could easily be misinterpreted or turn illegal. I also can't help but wonder if Bob chose our town knowing we have limited law enforcement to monitor his business practices. Bob has now moved someone into the church to work on the renovations with rumors of plans to move in tenants.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
According to my neighbors, many of the people working on the church have questionable backgrounds. Some have criminal histories. Instead of paying them with money, Bob has reportedly given one individual a car as compensation. Multiple people have approached me with concerns about Bob's reputation and his plans for the building. Right in front of it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and I see you've got yours there too, right? It says, not your lawyer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
I've considered contacting someone who works in human trafficking prevention slash investigation, but I lack evidence. Just a lingering gut feeling that something isn't right. On one hand, I could be wrong, and Bob simply lied about his not-for-profit intentions. On the other hand, I could end up living next to a place promoting human trafficking or laundering money. Am I overreacting?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
What would you do? Gabe, work your magic. Looking forward to an awesome sign-off.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
Wondering if I have the impetus to go straight up Leviticus on all the criminal wickedness being done by this villainous antithesis of a church's appropriate simpleness, which is now ruining my blissfulness. Pause to make sure you're actually done.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
For sure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
By the way, she included a link to Bob's personal website and his Instagram. And this guy is exactly what you're picturing. He kind of looks like how would you describe him, Jordan? Like he looks kind of like a cross between a Sopranos character and a used car salesman. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1101: Church, Steeple, and the Trafficked People | Feedback Friday
What is this website built on? It's like GeoCities?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But in her mind, she's like, we might be able to enjoy freedom, but then we also get all these other problems. So we don't need freedom is what she's saying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Feedback air. That's what we're called.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I mean, she's maybe not wrong about that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
No, it was just like educated property owners, men, et cetera. Yeah. You had to basically have an Airbnb near the Acropolis to get a voting sticker.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. But like India has, doesn't India have a billion people and they have a democracy and yes, it's a mess and yes, it's crazy. And yes, it's inefficient and voting takes several days and I don't even understand how they pull it off, but it's possible.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It's just going to be chaotic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It's a false binary, though. It is a false binary. That she thinks they only get one or the other is funny, but it does make you wonder how do these people contort themselves to believe that authoritarianism is what they need.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Economy class is basically our subreddit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Is he Taiwanese? Does he live there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Oh, look at this narcissist. That's what I thought. My God. It's weird, right? Everyone could see my co-host face right now.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My friend and I are both in our mid-30s, have worked together in a corporate setting remotely for three years, and get along great, supporting each other both in and out of the office. She's very smart and funny, and she's a terrific mom. She and her husband have been married for 12 years, each make six figures, and have two kids under 10 years old.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But over the past year, her husband has been pulling away from her. I don't think he's cheating, but he's been sleeping in the guest room, not communicating, working more, and acting quite depressed, which she says is unlike him. He's still a fantastic father and partner in all other ways. She loves him, appreciates him, and is still attracted to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But from what I understand, she hasn't really tried to find out what's behind her husband's radical change in behavior. They tried couples therapy once last year, but she found the therapist to be too woo-woo, so they stopped going but put off looking for a new one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
She started hanging out in separate areas of the house, focuses solely on the kids, and went so far as to say that if he doesn't get his act together, she's prepared to be a single mom forever and doesn't need a man. Wow. I chose not to push her until she was ready to share more and invited her to come visit me for four days in my city of New Orleans.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
In preparation, I sent her a bunch of attractions and asked about food or drinks she would like to have at my house. She seemed completely uninterested in the endless activities my city offers, but did send quite a few snack requests. And not just types of snack, but flavors and brands that were not at all healthy, but could only be found at Whole Foods.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I found it odd, but wanting her to feel comfortable, I stocked up to the tune of $150. On the ride home from the airport, I suggested a late lunch and told her about a few restaurants and activities near my house. Maybe, she replied coolly and said nothing else. It was oddly disconcerting, like I had said the wrong thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Once at my house, I showed her where the snacks were and told her to help herself any time. She was completely disinterested and had in fact brought a lot of snacks with her, which she stored in my pantry.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
When I again suggested a late lunch, I learned she had also pre-researched the menus of many of the restaurants near my house. She determined that they were either not for her or, quote, didn't offer enough options. So she researched more restaurants. She did not look up from her phone for an hour.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Finally, with some prodding from me, she chose a restaurant a few miles away that offers plenty of options for everyone. Once there, she poured over the menu again for nearly 30 minutes without looking up or talking. It was extreme. Then she must have asked the server 20 questions. What sauces were offered, what substitutions could be made, what the bread options were, etc.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Then sent him away so she could think some more. I've never seen anything like it. She finally ordered two appetizers and an entree, all basic fare, with no alterations or substitutes. In the first three hours, she thought and talked about food more than I do in a month.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I can see. Yeah, you're getting worked up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Well, strap in, buddy boy, because things are about to get weirder. Let's see where this goes. Each morning started with two hours of her scouring restaurant menus online. Then she picked areas of the city to explore based on the food options she had found, none of which she wanted to enjoy once we were nearby. But she did want to read every single outdoor menu posted.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Everywhere we walked, crossing many streets to ensure all menus were read. All places she had no intention of eating at. Also included were trips into every bakery, ice cream shop, and pizza place in our path. Again, just to know what they offered. Every time I asked if she wanted to eat at a particular place, she told me, no, menus are just my thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
What else is this woman into? Just reading the care instructions on every single item of clothing in every clothing store.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
When I pressed her, she shared that it was nice to finally be able to do her thing. Because her husband did not, quote, share this passion with her, unquote.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
My friend and I spent at least 70% of our time talking about researching and hunting down food options, but she always picked a very vanilla place in order to very vanilla meal. There was no conversation while eating. Her sole focus was on the food in front of her. This happened for three days.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
When it came to live music, an airboat, a street tour, a museum, a casino boat, a jazz dinner cruise, even watching a movie at home, she had really odd excuses for why she didn't want to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Thing, right? We'll see where we end up. Same story with retail shops. She wanted to see every item they offered. Not to buy, just to know. Oh. Back at my house, she ate an entire box of breakfast bars she'd asked to have on hand by the end of the second morning. "'What do you expect?' she said when I noticed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
She also found a plain frozen pizza in the freezer and seemed unable to leave the house until it was eaten. Then, the day she left, all of the snacks she'd brought and stored in my pantry were gone, not sure if they were eaten or packed." She finally examined the snacks that I had bought, opening quite a few to taste and then leaving them on the counter as rejects right in front of me. Oh my god.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Eventually, she took four family-sized bags of unopened snacks I had bought at her request and put them in her carry-on. She shared that she'd need options to nibble on on the plane, but would also need to find a meal at the airport to bring on the plane, so she wanted to get there early. Her flight home was two hours long.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I still have like half a letter to read here. So let me just get this again. Oh my god, okay, keep going. Another odd thing. While she chose all of our activities, I paid for every Uber to and from my house and many in between. I make good money, so hopefully I don't sound petty, but all told, I spent over $325 Ubering us to the different food areas she wanted to explore but not indulge in.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Not once did she offer to pay for a ride, buy me a meal, or even get me a bottle of water. What the hell, man?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I would have happily spent money on a higher-end restaurant or activity with her, any experience we could have shared, but these expenses didn't sit right with me. She's incredibly detail-oriented at work, so it seems very unlike her to not realize the literal and figurative costs. Jordan, that makes me think that she didn't want to offer...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Because offering to help pay for the rides would mean acknowledging how bizarre this behavior was. Was she just embarrassed?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's just hard for me to imagine somebody being that oblivious. Same, yeah. While I did my best to be empathetic and forgiving of all this, her behavior really threw me. I felt like little more than a guest on her visit myself. And I actually felt a little used for my city's many restaurant menus. As strange as that might sound.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
All of that said, I should mention as kindly as possible that my friend is quite overweight, far more than I was aware of and more than earlier in her marriage from the photos I've seen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I didn't mention this until now because she completely ignores this fact herself. Her husband is thin and fit. I worry that her food obsession could be straining her marriage and almost certainly other relationships in her life. Yes. I care about my friend and she seemed totally oblivious to her food behaviors being very different.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
but I've never been overweight and don't know what it does to a person mentally or physically. Should I suggest to my friend that she has a relationship with food that seems very unhealthy, is radically time-consuming, is impacting others, and is quite possibly fracturing her marriage? Should I approach the topic of her looking into these new weight loss medications out there?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Or is this none of my business? Was my friend just letting her hair down on a visit, having no family in tow? Or is this none of my business? Signed, weighing all my options when I'm not loving what's on the menu.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
You do seem a little underutilized these days. I figured I would just give you something to do. You just seem like you're at loose ends. I'm bored these days.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
To be fair, though, a lot of people also agreed with us on that one.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And in this case, with the whole menu fixation thing ruining the trip and everything else around it, objectively inconsiderate. Yes. A lot of objectivelys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Was there any part of you that was hurt or wish they'd never said that or said it differently? Honestly, God, no. It was straight, I'm willing to hear this?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I mean, that's a nice way to put it. Yeah. This is the same thing. It makes the medicine go down just fine.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It's an interesting question whether it's more hurtful to talk to someone about something like this or to not talk to them about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. The thing is, this topic, for some people, is a minefield.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It's so different for every person too. It's not as simple as, listen, I love you, but you're unhealthy or you need better habits. Let me help you. When this kind of disordered eating, and I agree with you, Jordan, I think that there is something disordered going on here, perhaps combined with a kind of obsession. My understanding is that it's always a manifestation of something else.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
There's something internal going on here that is probably pretty complicated.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Um, how's the jet lag? You look okay.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I wish we could talk to her and find out because there's got to be so much going on with her, but we can't.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So I hear that and I agree. If she chose not to bring this up, I would understand completely. But I also think that there might be some decent reasons for her to consider trying in the right way.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Just to set up a new inbox just for this, really. Yeah. Okay, look, they spent this trip together. They have a strong working relationship. Our friend here seems to really appreciate this woman. She's smart. She's funny. She's a great mom. She's apparently super on top of things at work. And now she's seen another aspect of her friend in this more intimate IRL setting, and she's worried.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I think she might be allowed to say, listen, I'm really glad we had this time together. I was excited to hang out with you. There's something I want to share with you. I've been going back and forth about whether to do it because honestly, I'm a little confused about it. I'm not sure it's my place. I don't know how it's going to land with you, but...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I've also asked myself what it means to be a good friend to somebody, and so I'm going to take a chance as your friend, as someone who cares about you, and tell you that some of what I saw during our time together concerned me. Specifically, the fact that so much of the trip focused on looking at restaurant menus and thinking about food. Now, look, I'm not here to judge what's fun for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I know you want to do this at home. You don't get to do that. I'm actually glad you felt comfortable doing it with me. If that's why you wanted to come to New Orleans, cool. What made me a little sad, though, and...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
honestly concern me is I feel like this menu hunting thing got in the way of our time together, made the focus of the trip, these restaurants and getting to these restaurants and talking about these restaurants. And that left very little time or space, sometimes no time or space for you and me to really spend quality time together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And I think it made it hard for you to fully experience my city and took over the whole trip. So I can't help but notice that restaurants and menus are really important to you. And I guess I just want to see if You can help me understand why and what was the trip like for you? I'm curious. Something like that. And go from there and see if she engages with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I don't think you're doing anything too controversial by starting out that way. And if it leads to her opening up about the deeper stuff that might be going on eventually, you might be glad you did it. She might not have anyone else to talk to about this. So that's kind of where my head is. What are you thinking, Jordan? Does that land at all?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Okay, so I wouldn't go directly at either of those from the start because her friend's weight, to your point, I think there's probably some shame around that, perhaps quite a bit of shame. It's probably related to deeper stuff that our friend here does not even know about. And I think if she comes right out and says, hey, I'm concerned about your weight, that's a risky approach.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I think that's like hitting the shame button really quickly and she might shut down immediately. Good point. I also don't think she needs to go right at that particular issue. if the weight is ultimately a symptom of something deeper.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
The Uber thing, her friend's general unthoughtfulness and the fact that she didn't seem very interested in her friend's experience, that she left her feeling used, that is also fair to bring up. I just don't know if it's the most productive thing to bring up from the very beginning.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Exactly. But in a way, she is touching on that by saying, hey, this menu reading thing got in the way of our time together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
If her friend has any self-awareness, I would hope she would go, oh, wow, I didn't realize it overshadowed the whole trip. I'm sorry about that. And then they can talk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But I think you're onto something because it is a fair response to what went down. Whether this friend consciously intended to use her or not, she did use her. It's complicated because can you use somebody if you didn't intend to do it? I don't know, whatever. But I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to work up to saying,
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Our trip left me with some difficult feelings, and that really bummed me out. Difficult feelings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and if she doesn't, then that would be a sign that this woman probably can't empathize with you or engage in this conversation. And at that point, I would probably say to myself, okay... I'm probably not going to get anywhere. Time to pull back. This person needs to figure this out in her own way, on her own timeline. I'm not the person she wants to hear this from.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And then it's up to you to work through this stuff on your own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So I think what we're saying is you're allowed to not bring this up because in a way it's not your business. At the same time, she made it your business by accepting your invitation to visit and impacting you with her behavior. In addition to the fact that you are friends and so you do genuinely care about her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So my feeling is you could bring it up with her, but I would not jump straight to suggesting that she has an unhealthy relationship with food or I would definitely not suggest that her weight is possibly fracturing her marriage because a. like we said, very sensitive and B, you don't know actually what's happening in her marriage. There might be so many things going on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So it's a little presumptuous to just say, I think it's because of this one thing that I'm seeing. And I definitely would not jump to recommending that she go on Ozempic or whatever. All of those topics are way down the line and they are up to her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I think she's going to have to do the work to figure out what role this food thing and this menu thing is playing in her life and how it's echoing in her other relationships. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to just open the door as a friend and see if she wants to walk through it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I think it's a very fair point. I also think that this particular conversation, like we keep saying, is very complicated. And so it does require more sensitivity and more care than one that is, hey, you were rude and I want to talk about it. But to your point, Jordan, if it's her business to bring it up because it impacted her, then her best bet might be to speak mostly to her own experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I'm worried about you. I was left with some tough feelings. I couldn't help but notice that whatever the food took over the whole trip, the snacks were a big deal. We didn't speak for 45 minutes at the restaurant when that was quality time that we were supposed to have. That's different from you have a problem. You need to lose weight. You're rude. You're inconsiderate.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
This is why your husband is pulling away, whatever it is. That approach might put our friend here on more solid ground too, because she and her colleague might disagree about whether this is a problem or whether it's something she needs to tackle. But this woman cannot argue with our friend here's feelings with her experience.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Okay. I think that's the right approach. So it's the approach that I would probably take if I could work up the courage to have this conversation. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I also think you should probably keep your expectations low.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And I'm saying this in part because you said something in the very beginning of your letter that I'm just realizing was very interesting, which is She and her husband started therapy and then they stopped because she said, what did she say? The therapist was woo woo. But then they never looked for another therapist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So maybe this therapist was bullshit and they were like, this is not the person for us. But the fact that they haven't found a new one and they are having marital problems and there's a lot for both of them to talk about here kind of makes me wonder why.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
If this friend might not really want to get into this stuff, not sticking with therapy might be one way to sidestep some important and difficult work on her part. Definitely. So if that's any indication of how willing she is to talk about this stuff, just keep that in mind and just know that you might not get the result you want, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I'm just glad you got back safe. I'm not going to lie. When you told me you were going, I was a little bit worried because you've been talking about how you've done all these episodes about the CCP. So I can't go back to China. And then you were going to go back to China. I was like, are you sure that's a good idea?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I've been doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu and Muay Thai since 2018 under the same coach. Last year, I got a new job that requires over 50% out-of-state travel, which made training consistently unrealistic. I told the coaches I was happy to keep paying my $139 monthly dues, even when traveling, to help them pay the bills and eventually upgrade to a larger facility.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Then, late last year, I bought my first house. After redoing my budget, I decided training wasn't a worthwhile expense and asked to cancel my membership. I texted the head coach on November 25th asking to cancel my membership, which was due in three days. He said yes, he could cancel, but there's a 10-day cancellation window, so I would be billed for the following month.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
He also said that I'm paying a grandfathered rate that I would lose if I left and then returned and that the new price would either be $159 or $179 a month. So I said, nevermind, don't cancel it. I'll be on a project in town in three months and can train again. And I moved on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Weeks later, I caught up with another team member who said they had paused their membership and never heard of a cancellation window. I then remembered that I had paused before due to an injury and never been told I still needed to pay. Fast forward to March of this year. I'm renovating my bathroom, buying a new garage door, stuff like that, and I hadn't been to the gym once in 2025.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
On March 20th, I asked the coach again to cancel. Again, he told me that there was a 10-day window and I would have to pay for the following month. I said, OK, but then I went to the bank, canceled my debit card and got a new one. I know this was shady on my end, but I was ready to pay him if necessary. And I'm kind of scared of this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
He's the type who loves a random fistfight and often talks about how he stays strapped. And he sounds a lot like Jaden. My son, my five-year-old. What did he say when he was... I'm going to go get my gun.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
protect myself. And often talks about how he stays strapped and isn't afraid to use his gun. I'm guessing he does not have a nerf, something slightly more lethal. I was hoping you wouldn't notice I didn't pay, but he noticed and he was pissed. He messaged me first thing in the morning about a week later saying my payment didn't go through.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I told him, nope, it didn't because I canceled the payment and I wanted to see the contract before I paid. In short, he sent someone else's membership agreement and it had a 30-day cancellation window, not a 10-day window. It also had a cancellation fee of $79 that people could opt to pay instead. I asked to pay that fee. He said the $79 is actually on top of the next month's payment as well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I said that's not true. Repeatedly asked for my signed membership agreement. He then called me asking to talk and got upset that I didn't answer. I wanted this in writing. He sent multiple voice messages saying he was disappointed in me, I'm burning bridges, I'm not a team player, and asking me why I lost my respect. He was deleting some of the more aggressive messages along the way, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Finally, he sent me my contract. There was, in fact, no cancellation window. I pointed this out and he said that I had verbally agreed to the new contract, which is a total lie and also not how contracts work. Then he sent me screenshots of him telling three other students they had to pay for a month following their departure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
How much you want to bet those screenshots are completely made up numbers that don't exist?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I'm now officially banned from the gym. He's saying I owe a balance of $139, but he won't send me to collections. Yeah, good. I'm pretty upset with this treatment after all these years on the team, and now I'm aware that others have been scammed too. I was looking into filing a complaint with the FTC or posting the screenshots on social media so that he can't keep getting away with this, but...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I'm scared of the blowback. If he weren't such an a-hole, I would probably let it go. But his bullying, lying, and manipulation really irked me. I don't think he can get deported to Brazil anymore since he's a citizen.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Three weeks ago, you might've been right. I don't know what's going on now. A hundred percent. Do I have any legal options here? Any other ideas? Signed, putting this financial yoke in a collar choke without trying to provoke a dodgy bloke.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I also wonder if some of this might have been avoided if you had done that even more and earlier on. You agreed to keep paying when you were out of town. You capitulated when he said that you would have to pay a higher rate if you rejoined later.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
You dodged his calls, and then when things really came to a head, instead of just saying, hey, I'm leaving the gym, thank you for everything you've done for me, but it's time for us to part ways, you canceled your debit card and waited for him to figure it out. Now, look, I know you had some good reasons for that. I would not want to put myself in a risky situation with a lunatic either.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But when I hold all of these facts together, it does paint a picture of some avoidance on your part. Very understandable avoidance, but it is avoidance nonetheless. And I do wonder if that is partly how you ended up here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's just a quality to keep an eye on because it's an interesting part of the story. Maybe you made the right call in this case, but going with the path of least resistance, capitulating to keep things on an even keel, yeah, that often ends up empowering bullies and failing to protect you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I do too. Yeah. We should talk about that one day. It is interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Hey, guys. Our son, Brian, has been challenging since he was two years old, locking us out of the house, throwing constant temper tantrums, getting up in the middle of the night and climbing on the counter to reach glasses on the top shelf and playing with the blender. At four years old, he began climbing 20 feet up a tree. He would not sit still, and we constantly worried for his safety.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Brian also had a temper, knocking games over, throwing the remote if he lost. At seven, his sisters were scared of him. They locked themselves in the bedroom once, and he kicked a hole in the door. He'd hold them down and apply pressure points on their body. At 17, Brian became violent with me, his mother, leaving bruises on my upper body.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
You're taking their word for it. But if that's true, then that's a bit reassuring. Right. I guess.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
To the outside world, Brian is a model citizen. He excelled in school in Eagle Scouts, became a chemical engineer, is amazing at his job. He volunteers, plays sports and instruments. He married a very quiet, unusual woman, had four children in eight years, and is a quote-unquote great dad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It is fascinating, isn't it? What a complicated son to have. So interesting. But along the way, Brian started sending me hateful letters, emails, and texts, and regularly hung up on me. He claimed I beat him and his sister daily with spatulas and belts, that I tried to choke her when they were young. This is a total lie, confirmed by his sister.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yes, that's so true. I wonder if there's some overlap between these two guys.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
yeah and also there's like a risk assessment aspect like that when he was a kid before he even understood what he was doing when he's playing with the blender and reaching up on things and grabbing things i don't know it's fascinating could be or it could be even more severe i don't know so she goes on i also discovered that he and his wife were in an open marriage for the past five years things imploded when she wanted a sexual relationship with his best friend or would file for divorce
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
You mean you're not supposed to force them into it?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Then things got ugly. She claimed that Brian hurt her, had pictures of bruises on her phone and said she was done. He was drinking and smoking pot. He punched his fist through the wall, spattering blood. This picture perfect family was just a facade. The tension was so bad that I was concerned they might kill each other. Yeah, that must have been awful to see that play out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Can you imagine being a parent and your son is like spinning out like that? That's rough. Yeah, wow. My son went berserk. Brian said that he married his psycho mother. He made up a bunch of lies about me and repeatedly said, admit it, you did it. I had to admit to them or he wouldn't have a relationship with me or let me have one with my grandchildren.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I finally caved to quote unquote heal the family. I felt sick to my stomach like I sold my soul to the devil. After that, Brian immediately talked to me like we were best friends, like nothing ever happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. What to make of that? Either he knows it was not real at all and it was all a technique. And once he got his way, he could just go back to liking her or he's totally disconnected from his feelings. I'm so confused.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Brian is now divorced and dating the second woman he met on a dating app where he's looking for someone to help raise his children, not for love. He takes selfies constantly. He posted pictures of his wife and him kissing on a cruise on social media the day after she moved out. Later, he posted that his wife forced him into an open relationship and listed the full names of the men she slept with.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Indeed. How do I live my life knowing that I lied to have a relationship with my grandkids when I probably never will? That my husband didn't support me for years in challenging these lies and Brian's physical violence toward me? How can I have a relationship with Brian or my grandchildren after all this? Signed, struggling with my offspring when I'm tied to his apron strings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I'm not sure. Maybe she just thought, here's where I'll tell them that also happened. But that is curious. Yeah. There's a lot more to know about that because where my mind goes is, did he not believe you? Does he have a different version of these events?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Because I find you compelling and you're based on your letter and it sounds like your daughter is confirming your story. So I believe you, but... Then the question is, why doesn't your husband believe you? Is he checked out, or is he on the son's side, or what's going on here?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So sounds like it was a good trip, but you haven't told me much about it. Was it dope?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Which is very much part of the problem here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But I think the better question might be at what cost does my relationship with Brian and with his kids come for me? What am I willing to tolerate in order to be close with them? What do I have to overlook or forgive in order to do that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah. How does that make you feel? Because based on your letter and reading between the lines, I think it makes you feel not great. You're having to swallow a lot. You're having to stuff down so much anger and sadness and concern. You have to compromise on your integrity. You have to allow yourself to be the target of your son's irrational accusations and feelings.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Sounds like you're kind of a vehicle for his messy projections. Then when he gets what he wants, he flips the script. I mean, this is very confusing. It's awful. I just don't know how you do it. I don't know if I could do it. I don't think I could either. Look, only she can decide what price she's willing to pay here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
My concern is when Brian apparently made up a bunch of lies about her, she said that she caved not just so that she could have a relationship with her grandkids, but to quote unquote heal the family. And then afterwards she was like, what did I do? Like I sold my soul to the devil. So she is paying exactly this price you're describing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Wide open spaces. Wide open spaces.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yes, I'm getting the sense that her remarkably high tolerance for Brian's crazy, for lack of a better word, and her ability to subordinate her own standards and needs to his, maybe to many other people's too, that is a huge variable here. This might be an opportunity for her to go, why do I do that? Do I want to keep doing that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Am I really willing to live with these feelings to just keep things on an even keel and get what I want with his kids? You know, it's an interesting theme on today's episode.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Because she might say, well, my grandkids are because they get to be friends with me. But it might also be true. that this serves Brian and that it also in a way serves herself because in a certain way, it does let her off the hook for having to really stand up to him and try to talk about this stuff.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Which would be another really good question for her to ask herself, especially after the initial shock of standing up to him passes, you know, because the first couple of weeks after you draw a line with somebody is very intense and it's scary. Like you feel raw and vulnerable. The person's yelling at you, whatever. But after that, does something new become possible?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Does a new relationship with yourself become possible? I think it's likely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Even her question there, how do I live my life knowing that my husband didn't support me? That kind of mirrors the way she's dealt with Brian his whole life. She's not saying, how do I change this dynamic with my son? How do I have a new conversation with my husband? It sounds to me like her question is more, how do I just make peace with this anger? How do I put an end to the tension that I feel?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And I'm not sure that's possible. She can't just wish these feelings away and hope that the rest of her life she won't feel uneasy. She feels uneasy because there's a real problem here. These feelings are a signal that something with Brian needs to change.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is an insulated tumbler called The Beast, which is such a funny name for an insulated tumbler, but it does live up to the name. So this is one of those travel thermoses for coffee or tea that keeps your beverage hot or cold for hours and hours. I am one of those psychos who likes to drink boiling hot beverages.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I make black tea every morning and I get annoyed when it cools off really quickly once you pour it. I've tried so many tumblers over the years. This is by far the best one I've found. It's all the things. High quality, food grade, stainless steel, good insulation, splash proof, closeable lid, which by the way, one of my favorite features.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I've dropped this thing multiple times, especially when I'm getting in and out of my car. It can be full of tea and it won't spill. It's kind of amazing. And it comes in a bunch of different sizes. I use this thing every single day, multiple times a day. I pack it when I travel because I don't want to be without it. It's awesome.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So if you drink things, especially hot things like in the morning at work, you want to travel with it, this is the one. And as always, we'll link to it in the show notes. I hope you like it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I will say this, though. Yeti is also incredible. They're a little bit less cool aesthetically, like they're more camping vibes. It's not the prettiest design, but the technology on the Yeti is awesome. So between these two brands, you'll be covered. But this one is, I don't know, has a special something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I didn't know you would be so interested in the metal straw. I never use mine. Do you want me to give it to you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
That is a very classic Krista Armit take. Yes. But it does actually make a lot of sense. And you can't win, can you?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Aren't you walking around with the beast? Yeah, but I don't use the straw. Oh, that's true. You don't use the straw. But it does come with a straw. You just fall on your thermos, okay. That's right. Help me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I'm just laughing about Daddy Jill.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
So a lot of people have talked about how much China has changed in the last few years, especially after a lot of foreigners left and things got a little tighter. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Funny you should say that because I'm about to deliver. All right. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I wrote you guys almost two years ago. I was the 35-year-old virgin wondering if I should tell the first person I sleep with that I had never had sex or just roll the dice and see what happens. Do you remember that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that was episode 861, by the way. So he goes on, about a year ago, I dated a girl for three months and we slept together.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, she was my first and she was the best first I could have hoped for. I think she had figured out that it was my first time based on the way I answered certain questions or the way I acted in general. And because she knew ahead of time, she was very patient and understanding.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Eh, she sounds sweet. We got along great, but ended things after realizing that our ultimate goals in life were too different. We parted as friends and have developed a legitimate friendship. We text and talk on the phone, and I've hung out with her, her kids, and her friends.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Her friends and her sister really like me, as do her kids, who are 10 and 7, who have recently started calling me uncle and adopted me into their family. She's on board with this. We're now concerned, however, that when either of us starts dating a new person, we'll have to end our friendship, or at least not see each other in person because we've had sex.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I can see how hanging out with your ex could be a cause for concern in a relationship, but things are very platonic now. There's no secret longing for each other. There have been times when we've been alone and there is no sexual tension there. But is a new person really going to buy that? Is it possible for this friendship to go on?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Or does it have to end for us to move forward with a new relationship? Can Harry and Sally really be friends? Signed, debating whether to concede that our friendship's not guaranteed now that we've done the deed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Although I would argue that would be an issue even if there weren't a new person in the mix.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But I think it's kind of a shame that a lot of people don't because then their objection is just your history makes me uncomfortable. I need you to stop seeing this genuine friend. And in this case, apparently like an adoptive uncle, which is so sweet. So you have to stop seeing them so that I can feel OK.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Part of what you're touching on is also you being respectful of this person's time with their new partner and giving them some freedom. Just invest in that person for a little while before you introduce a whole new element. So that's interesting too. But I do think you make a good point. You do have to kind of adjust your position in their life within reason to some degree. Yeah. Sometimes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And yeah, you can't be close with eight people, right? So if you start dating someone new and you want to really invest in that person, yeah, you might not speak with your friend on the phone for three hours every week or whatever. Overall, Jordan, I am with you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I feel that men and women have so much to offer one another, and it's kind of a shame that a lot of us struggle to have genuine friendships with the opposite gender, or we're not encouraged to in a lot of places. Is it complicated sometimes? Does it depend a lot on the personalities of the people involved? Definitely.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But one of my closest friends, when we first met, we dated very briefly years ago. And now our relationship is completely different. She's like a homie. She's almost part of my family. It would be really sad to think about not having her in my life because one of us started dating somebody new.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I think that's the story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's fair. But it might be worth talking to her about this in advance so that you can know whether you guys are on the same page about how important this friendship is to each of you. Because if you're like, hey, I couldn't date somebody who wouldn't let me be friends with you. And she says, I met someone and he was uncomfortable with it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
I don't know, I might have to say goodbye or she gets vague about it and quiet. That's good data for you. Then you guys can talk about that and maybe see if there's room for you guys to arrive at a new place.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And I don't know, maybe there's something for you to work out there or you'll discover that you mean different things to each other, which again, would be really good for you to know now, not just so you know what's coming down the road, but so you can really make sure you're investing in the right friendships.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And that anti-foreigner vibe you hear about, did you feel any of that? No.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that changes the whole dynamic. They probably appreciate it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
And what about Taiwanese people's feelings right now? Have you noticed any change in how scared they are?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But what about the big question like China invading?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
But it does seem to be coming to a head. You can feel the day approaching. I have no idea when that day is coming, but it could be within their lifetime easily.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Man, that reminds me of that letter we took, what was it, like two or three years ago from the, I think it was an American guy who was married to a Taiwanese woman who said she and her family would not leave if China invaded, like they would fight until the end.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
They're so proud and so passionate. They don't want to turn their back on their country. But it's also like, I don't see that going any other way. But the obvious one, do you? China is going to take it, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It's going to be a big deal.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Bit of a different situation there, but I take your point.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Anyway, back to your super fun trip.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Any highlights?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
It could be. It just takes some work to get me to China these days, but we can talk about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Those two bloody guys in the square. That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I think about that still sometimes. I do too. I wonder why. You didn't speak Chinese back then, so you didn't know what was going on. No, that was crazy. That was the only time I've ever seen a full-on MMA-style street brawl in public. Yes. Like in real life. It was pretty dark.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Everybody gets to bring their baggage on this flight, and there's no weight limit. No.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1152: Freakish Food Fixation Fractures Friendship | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's hilarious. But she thinks they don't have it. They don't use it there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. My mom and aunt have also contacted the Italian consulate in London and New York. contacted the police in the county where we believe Julia is, and written to every nursing home listed in the county she's in. Because we live in the UK, we can't afford to just fly out and knock on the door of every nursing home in New York. At 105 years old, the clock is ticking.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
We're desperate to see Julia again and want her to know that she hasn't been abandoned. It's too cruel to get to such an amazing age and not be surrounded by family. How else can we try to find her? What would light Jordan and Gabe, and also dark Jordan, do? Signed, something peculiar about what they've done with Julia.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, yeah, couchsurfing.com. I do remember that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Corbin said there is one last nuclear option here, which is you could file a lawsuit in New York asking to be named Julia's conservator. Now you'll need to prove that Julia is either being harmed or neglected or is in imminent danger of being harmed or neglected. That's how the court allows for these arrangements.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That's how it works in Tennessee anyway, where Corbin practices, but that's my understanding in most states. Also terms like neglect and harm, they have very specific legal definitions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
The ordinary sense, and also like in a general ethical sense, it sounds like Monica is not taking the best care of Julia, but that doesn't mean that she's neglecting or harming her in the legal sense of the term, especially if she's in a home, then she has a roof over her head. There are people looking out for her. So it's hard to say if you would be successful here. Also, this would be a process.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
It would be quite expensive and it will almost certainly destroy any relationship you have with Monica and anyone else in the family who sides with her. But Again, I don't know how much of a concern that is for you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I recently received a message out of the blue from my cousin's ex-wife. Let's call her Megan. This was odd, not just because I've barely ever spoken to her, but because this cousin, her ex-husband, molested me as a child. He was a child at the time, too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That's the mortar and pestle that they make the guacamole in?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Seeing this message raised a lot of complex emotions for me as I'm currently dealing with another immediate family member being investigated for similar actions. Megan was apologetic, but I couldn't help but feel that there was a motive behind her outreach.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
She claimed that she tried to advocate for me, but was berated for being a quote-unquote bad wife and not standing by her husband for something that boys do. She went on to say how enabling my aunt is and how my cousin has always played the victim.
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I feel a knot in my stomach when I think that by minimally responding with appreciation for her acknowledgement and shared confusion for the family dynamics... I'll be fueling a drama-seeking wounded ex. I've worked very hard to heal through integrative therapy, meditation, microdosing, and bodywork. I have a wonderfully sensitive and courageous husband who continually shows me what men can be.
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We have two children, and I love my life. I'm grateful to be in a place where this memory has lost the power to harm me. And yet, I'm triggered by the negligence of Megan's approach. I'm grateful to her for acknowledging the wrong and reaching out to express her feelings, but I'm not sure she considered my feelings, what this would bring up for me, or if I'm in a place to receive this bomb.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I'm also confused because there's no relationship to heal between us. I'm not interested in forming a relationship based on a perceived common enemy or within a live divorce, and I honestly don't want to know what's happening between them. How can I respectfully establish a hard boundary while still coming across with respect? Is she using my past to create a negative narrative for custody?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
How do I close this open loop? Signed, thrown by her tone and all these unknowns, when I've already grown and I'd rather she leave this alone. Besides, does she want to atone or just bemoan her own woes?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Wow. Were you sitting on that the whole time? That was nice. No comment. I love that, though. That was a good remix of a classic.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
It's also possible that reaching out to you is a way for her to assuage some guilt she feels about not holding her ex-husband accountable, not calling out her mother-in-law, not being more supportive to you while they were together, which, sure, that motivation might ultimately be more about her than you, and that would be something else she
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
probably could have acknowledged in her message, but that doesn't mean that it isn't also about wanting to be kind and genuinely wanting to apologize and heal your relationship, even if this is not a relationship you feel needs to be healed. None of this means that you're wrong for feeling weird. I'm just saying maybe stay open to a few possibilities here, like Jordan is saying.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But I got to say, Jordan, from where I'm sitting, she is 100% allowed to not engage with this woman if she doesn't want to. You don't owe her anything, especially as it relates to this very painful history. It's your history primarily. It's not hers. So if you don't want to talk to her about it, that is absolutely fair. And you could literally say, hey, Megan, thank you for reaching out.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Thanks for sharing this. I'm sure you're coming from a good place. I can hear that you're having your own experience of my cousin, but. respectfully, this is not something I'm super keen to talk about. It's painful, it's private, it's something that I've worked hard to move on from, so I'll just have to leave it here, and I hope you're well. It really could be as simple as that.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But before you do that, maybe just take a beat and decide if you want to know more about Megan's intentions here. Maybe you don't, and end of story. But I also don't think there's anything wrong with saying, hey, just so I understand where you're coming from, Why did you reach out to me now? What were you hoping to get from this conversation?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I just want to understand that better before I decide whether to talk about it after all of this time. And again, I just want to stress this. There is zero obligation to do this. I'm just telling you that it's fair game. And it might give you the information that you need to decide how to feel about all of this. Because look, Megan might, in fact, be a good friend to you through all of this.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Or she might be oversteppy and meddlesome. And yeah, maybe she has her own agenda here. Or she might just be really tone deaf and misattuned and just doesn't have experience talking to people who've been through something like this.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I also wonder if what was difficult about Megan's message wasn't just her clumsiness, but having to be in touch with some difficult feelings again, and then wondering, I feel very triggered by this. Am I really as healed as I thought I was? Do I really have all of this sorted? Which I think is very normal.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You said in your letter, I'm grateful to be in a place where this memory has lost the power to harm me. And now all of a sudden, I wonder if it feels like this memory does have the power to harm you because of what Megan brought up in her message. I can imagine that would be unsettling.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
The anger that you feel toward Megan for the negligence of her approach might be warranted if she really is not being very thoughtful, or maybe if she does have some ulterior motive, but it's possible that part of your anger is simply about being in touch with this wound again at all.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And yes, that is one more reason that Megan should have been way more thoughtful about how she framed all of this, or maybe should not have reached out to you at all. But it might also be a reason for you to meet this reaction that you're having with a little more curiosity, a little more compassion.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And to remember that even if you're in touch with this wound sometimes, which is not entirely under your control as you're finding out with this message, that doesn't mean that you haven't made massive progress in your life. or that you're somehow in trouble, or that you don't have the tools to process this pain, because you do.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. That's hilarious. And the servers at the restaurants always make such a production out of it, don't they?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, my older brother Dave has had a rough life. He was misdiagnosed with ADHD at six years old, and he was bullied throughout elementary school by both classmates and teachers for being different. The bullying got so bad that when he was in the fifth grade, my mom decided to pull him out of school and homeschool him.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
This did not go well because my mom was wildly inexperienced and unprepared to teach grades six through 12. As a result, Dave never earned his high school diploma or GED.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
When Dave was 15, he got into legal trouble after fooling around with the girl next door. He was let off with probation, and the incident did not go on his permanent record. nor was he required to register as a sex offender.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But this experience devastated his self-worth and gave him severe social anxiety. I trust him with my life, and I don't believe that he's a threat to anyone. At 19, Dave was formally diagnosed with high-functioning Asperger's syndrome.
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He found some peace by volunteering at our local humane society, and after he turned 18, they hired him full-time in animal care. Though he no longer works there, he still works in animal care, which seems to be something he enjoys. But at 27 years old, Dave still struggles with self-control and personal responsibility. Interesting.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
For example, he needs reminders to take showers, brush his teeth, and put on deodorant. He lives with my parents and spends most of his money on things like Legos and video games. He won't get his driver's license because he's terrified of driving, so he takes the bus to work, or sometimes my parents drive him. Dave shuts himself in his room.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
In social situations, he usually sits in the corner and scrolls through his phone. He's very socially anxious, and it's clear that he struggles to connect with people. I largely blame my parents for not setting him up for success, especially my mom. She's a covert narcissist, and my dad is a pushover.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
They still defend their decision to pull him out of school, and they aren't doing anything to help him move forward. I believe in Dave and think he has the potential to live independently and support himself, but my mom disagrees.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I think about that a lot. And I think also about how that burden so often falls to the person's siblings, which is very intense. It's not fair. No, it's not.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. Absolutely. Let's come back to that. So he goes on. Since I was 16, my mom has been practically begging me to take care of Dave when they can't anymore. She breaks down in tears every time she brings it up.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Let's get this show on the road, shall we? Yeah.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Totally agree. I'm actually very impressed that you're strong enough to be able to say, not so fast, I have a life too, I can't just orbit around Dave forever. Yeah, good for you.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
While I love and care about my brother, and I'm not opposed to putting in some effort to help guarantee his well-being, I've just had my first child and I want to grow my own family without Dave being my primary focus. I've suggested that my parents enroll him in an adults with autism program to help him get on his feet, But they refuse, insisting that it won't help.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Right. I'm so curious to know what the parents have to gain by keeping Dave close. Narcissistic supply for mom. Is that all it is? Yeah. Or letting someone else in would mean that they have to admit that they can't do it all themselves?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But this is just putting him in a program that any adult with autism would benefit from. It's not necessarily an indictment of them.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Then they don't. So it's about they need to feel needed. It's not that it won't help.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I think they're afraid that it will help. But then they also want their other son to take care of him. When they die. Or when they slow down. Unclear. But yeah, you're right. My parents are in their 50s now, and they're starting to slow down physically. How do I make sure Dave is set up for success when my parents can no longer take care of him?
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
How do I handle this with my parents, who are set in their ways? signed charting a course to get my rents to endorse some helpful supports so they don't just outsource my brother's care to me, of course.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I agree that that's slightly less urgent, but it actually is very important in Dave's case because it sounds like he has really severe social anxiety and it does not sound like he talked to anybody after that incident with the neighbor. Apparently that whole experience left him with some serious issues. The severe anxiety is probably very scared of other people.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Sounds like it was traumatic for him and for the victim. And that might be holding him back from building his own life in all sorts of ways. So if he could talk to a therapist, I would love that.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, highly recommend checking those out. I think they're going to give you a running start on all of this. Now, look, I know you're up against a lot with your parents. You're up against your mom's apparent narcissism. You're up against your dad's passivity. You're up against their general rigidity about all of this. I'm sure all of that comes from God knows where the deep stuff comes from.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
But it sounds to me like there's a lot of fear and guilt, denial, and probably just feeling totally overwhelmed after years of this. But it's going to be an obstacle to getting things done. So when you talk to your parents, I would try to understand their feelings as much as possible. Make them feel heard. I know it's difficult, but your empathy for them is key.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And I think it could slowly lower their defenses and make it safe for them to start at least imagining other ways of taking care of Dave. So before you go in there and start pitching solutions, you might want to make some space for them to talk about how they feel without being judged. Talk about why they're resistant and just listen and try to validate that for them.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
You could be like, look, I hear you. The future is overwhelming, mom. I get it. I understand you, Dad. You don't want anyone else taking care of Dave. That kind of thing. And I would reassure them that you want to protect Dave as much as they do. And you're not going to let them fail or fall into trouble once they're older, once they're gone.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That's probably really important for them to hear from you. And then, when the time is right, you can work up to saying something like, look... I know it's hard to imagine anyone else caring for Dave the way you do. I get it. But the best way that you can protect him is to put these supports in place now while you guys still have a say.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And just imagine how much peace of mind that's going to give you to know that everything is in place no matter what. And that's also going to really help me take care of Dave the way you guys want me to. And then you can tell them that you'll be their partner in doing all of this. You'll help them every step of the way.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And wherever possible, that you'll involve Dave in these decisions about his future because... that's also the right thing to do, and that will also be empowering to him.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, my God. So they both made it her problem and did not equip her to do the job they wanted her to do. Got in the way of every single solution. Basically what's happening with this guy right now. That's infuriating. Poor Bev. Another thing you can do, you can share some stories with your parents. Hey, I read about a family online that you could tell this story that Joy just told, honestly.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Have them call my mom. Yeah. Get Bev on the line. She'll sort this out in 15 minutes. You could say, look, I've read about families online that didn't come up with plans. And when the parents had a medical emergency, their child ended up bouncing around, feeling unstable, feeling confused or worse. And it really opened my eyes to how critical this planning is.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Or I listened to a podcast from a family that did this and they did it really well. And it inspired me to start thinking ahead. And I realized that this is totally doable. Both of which, by the way, we encountered while doing our research for this. So I'm sure you'll find stories like this too.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, and on that note, I would also go back and listen to episode 1016. There was a question, I think it was question four on that episode. We took a letter from a guy who was also wrestling with how to get his family to best care for his autistic brother. And interestingly, there were a lot of parallels with your brother's story.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I think on that episode, we shared some ideas and resources for helping a special needs person become independent and take good care of themselves. So I'd give that a listen too.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
It's a little tight, but whatever. Hold on. I'm just catching up to this visual. So you and this Saudi guy. Yeah. And his sister.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Who's about 100 pounds lighter than me, by the way. I'm filling this thing out, but whatever. You look like a maester in Game of Thrones. And he just like, you guys are now hitting the town and you're dressed like a Saudi man. This is incredible.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Hey guys, for the last few years, I've worked in sales for a roofing company. I was recently set to receive a five-figure commission, but right before I was due to leave, the company fired me. I complained to my bosses, and they basically told me to get bent. I then requested a copy of my employment contract, which I had signed but didn't have a copy of, and they told me I had no contract.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
I reached out to a lawyer buddy of mine, and his view was that because there's no employment contract, the non-compete clause that was a part of the contract also doesn't exist. So I called up all my clients, told them what happened, convinced them to leave my former employer, then walked those clients about a mile down the road into a brand new job with my former employer's main competitor.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Stiffing me on a five-figure commission cost my former employer almost half a million dollars in potential business over the next three to four months and shredded their credibility with other contractors in the community. Meanwhile, I'm probably bringing in about $1.5 million in new business to my new employer over the next period.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
And not even for a good reason, just because they don't want to pay him like 12 grand in commission. So ridiculous.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
What a picture.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
The day after all of this went down, my old bosses magically found the contract. Of course they did. Yeah. Oh, here it is. Right in the drawer. But my lawyer friend and I told them that they've repudiated the contract and we're out. My lawyer told me that he spoke with their attorney and that attorney could barely keep a straight face as he threatened to sue us.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
My friend thinks that any judge that they would bring this in front of would throw my former employer out on its ass, and the attorney knows it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Plus, this is such a big hit to the business that they now have an existential crisis on their hands and they can't focus on this. Just wanted to share my story with you guys in case it makes you laugh. Maybe it'll also give your listeners some ideas for what to do when an employer screws you over. signed reshingling my own roof while making myself bulletproof.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah. And it's not just these customers. It's also his lawyer friend, right? That's a crucial relationship.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Also, yesterday you were American and today you're a member of the richest oil producing nation in the Middle East.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that makes sense.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So weird.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Wow. So they basically had to like con the dad into thinking it was his idea for them to meet and get.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Oh, OK. That's such a weird end to that story.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
So strange.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, my great aunt Julia has reached the incredible age of 105 years old. Dude, that is so wild. That is so old. I mean, congratulations. I know one person who's over 100, but he's in rough shape and we don't kick it. Imagine having a 105-year-old person in your family. It's so cool. She lives independently in an apartment in New York while my mom, aunt, and I live in the UK.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
She's still sharp, but profoundly deaf. The last time I saw her, she chatted away about all sorts of things, was energized by politics, and always had a lot to say. Over the last few years, we've kept in touch with Julia through her son, Joe, due to our loss of hearing. It's a really important relationship.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Julia's sister, my grandmother, passed away in Italy during COVID, which was heartbreaking and reignited the importance of keeping in touch with Julia. In recent months, though, our correspondence with Joe ground to a halt. We sent Julia flowers on her 105th birthday, but didn't get a response. We reached out to Joe and were blanked.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
After much internet research, I found out through his employer's website that Joe had passed away. We hadn't been told, even though he has children who could have easily contacted us. We all started to panic about who was looking after Julia and how she was coping. I found out where Joe's funeral was and wrote a message on the funeral home's memorial page. Joe's daughter, Monica, saw it, but
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
she didn't respond. My aunt was eventually able to get an email address for one of Julia's neighbors, and the neighbor sent us a very distressing message. She said that Julia had come to see them shortly after Joe's death, crossing a busy road on her own to get there, to say that Monica was going to put her into a home that she didn't want to go to.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Monica lives 300 miles away from the home, so she would be unlikely to visit. Once Julia had moved to this home, the neighbors asked Monica where she was so they could visit, But Monica refused to tell them, saying, quote, she had been through enough and it would stir things up too much for them to visit. That makes me angry. There was clearly some bad blood there.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
The neighbor said that Joe had established three people as power of attorney over Julia before Monica, and they weren't sure why she was able to do this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
That's really sus. Good point. Also, you would think that she would be thrilled that people want to visit Julia considering that she lives so far away. That should make her life easier, right? It takes the burden off of her if she doesn't want to spend time with Julia. What does she have to gain by keeping her hidden away? I don't get it.
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1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
Or Julia knows something else about Monica that Monica doesn't want people finding out?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday
We've obviously tried to contact Monica. We've even been texting Joe's phone and we can see that the messages have been delivered. After a couple of weeks, Monica replied to one of my messages saying Joe is dead, which clearly she knew we knew. Right.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
There's another option, which is you find a new hiking group. But that kind of makes me sad because this group, it sounds like, has been really profound for you and you should not have to leave because he's annoying. And I imagine that it would feel like admitting defeat or something, which makes me mad because... Again, this guy is the problem.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
But if you truly cannot enjoy these outings anymore, then you might not have a choice. And there are other options.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
If I were in your shoes, I would definitely start with option two because you're on much firmer ground there. And even people who might agree with this guy's views in some way might also agree that the group would benefit from being racism and eugenics free. I agree.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And honestly, he might be kind of scary. I mean, wanting to put a gun on a drone, that's like psychotic. No normal person who isn't, you know, defending Mariupol wants to do something like that. Agreed.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Strange yoga class. Yes, it is. Or a class full of idiots. One or the other.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
OMG. But then does that prove his point that he might need to say something to these people or call this out? Does he have a responsibility?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Your what?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Hmm, tell me.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
At least I didn't say it all breathy. Healing journey.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've been with my husband for 20 years. We have a six-year-old child together, and we live a 14-hour flight away from family. Neither of us is particularly close with our families. My husband works, and I've been a stay-at-home mom for six years. Over the course of our relationship, my husband has lied about little things.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
We've spoken about it, but he doesn't really change. This all came to a head a couple years ago when he was always on his phone messaging someone. I asked him about it numerous times and he very obviously kept lying. So I went through his phone while he was asleep. He'd been messaging a coworker for over a month on a daily basis. There were a few flirty messages and a lot of deleted messages.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that was a strange one.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
When I confronted him, he still tried to lie his way out of it. I was absolutely heartbroken. I consider the messaging an emotional affair. He's adamant that nothing physical happened, but I can't trust him, so I don't know if that's true. I seriously considered leaving him after that.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I felt that I didn't know him anymore, although looking back, there were red flags at the beginning of our relationship.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Instead, I stood by him and supported him while he battled depression, which has returned numerous times since. So we started couples counseling. He promised he would do anything to rebuild my trust, that he would treat me right. Fast forward two years. He's on antidepressants, but feels they aren't helping as much as they have in the past.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
He's told me numerous times over the years that he uses alcohol to cope. I heavily suggested that he should not drink on antidepressants, Last time he did, I ended up calling an ambulance because he was unconscious, getting sick, and I couldn't move him.
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He told me he wouldn't drink during the week, but over the last four weeks, he's been desperate to walk to the shop during the evenings, and when he returns, his speech is slurred and he can't walk in a straight line. I asked if he was drinking, he said no, and gaslit me into believing it was exhaustion. I was really worried about him.
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Then, last night, I found out the truth and confronted him about the secret drinking. Turns out, he's been lying to my face for weeks. He feels that he can't drink alcohol without me policing him like a child, which is fair. I've told him none of this means lying is okay, which he agrees with.
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I have an issue with him drinking because I know he turns to it in times of stress and I feel he chose it over me when I was pregnant. I had an awful smell aversion to alcohol during pregnancy and asked him not to drink until our daughter was due and he couldn't do it. He's since apologized and said he was wrong, but I'm still not over that and feel second best.
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He was meant to be rebuilding my trust, but now my trust in him is non-existent. But I don't want to leave him. I don't know if that's because I love him, or because I don't see a way out, or don't know how I would cope without him. My daughter would be absolutely devastated if we separated, and I don't think I could handle not seeing her every day.
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I'm trying to be strong for her, but inside I'm falling apart. I would be very lonely and possibly work a job I hate. as I'm limited professionally living in a foreign country. I know some of the things my husband says are true, but he uses them as excuses. He really is suffering from depression. He is on antidepressants and seeing a psychiatrist. He's suffered from severe insomnia for years.
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He feels undervalued, unappreciated, and negatively targeted at work, although his role ensures a very good education for our daughter, so he feels he can't leave as she would have to move schools. He's the financial provider for our family and feels as if everything is crushing him emotionally. I think I do love him.
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Thinking about him not being in my life devastates me, but so does thinking about only having him in my life as a co-parent and not a true partner. I have no friends and no one to confide in about what I'm going through. I've tried to make friends, but I just can't seem to. I have one friend back home I could potentially confide in, but...
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I really don't want to share this with anyone who knows us because I'm embarrassed that I've let this happen to me, and I know it'll damage their opinion of my husband. We've tried couples counseling again recently, which is tough with finances and childcare issues, but I'm afraid it's not helping all that much. I'm lost. What should I do?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Signed, compromised by my guy and despising his lies, but paralyzed to devise a life that is mine.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Wasn't there something involving hot air balloons?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I think I agree with that. The cost of staying without some meaningful change just seems way too high.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
To drop USB drives or something like that.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I think there's a larger fear of all of this, you know, the unknown.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Yeah, no, my take is pretty much the same. And I say that knowing that the solution here might be relatively straightforward, but actually living this decision is a lot harder. It's very intense. So I understand that she is in a process here and it's her own process and she might need some time. So many of her reasons for staying, especially the ones that have to do with her daughter,
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Maybe someone in South Korea could maybe pull that off a little bit. But three Americans in Los Angeles, it was so funny.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Those are also reasons to separate, in my opinion.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
If you think about it, what she's saying is, it would be devastating to my daughter if we split up. I would be devastated not to see her every day, so I'm gonna stick around in a marriage where she's exposed to a lying, alcoholic father who's not really dealing with his issues very well. I'm not sure that that's fair to the daughter either.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
She's, what, six years old. She probably already has a sense that something isn't quite right with Dad.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
The other big obstacle to her building her own life, which is that she is very isolated.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Living abroad, married with a kid, with no job, that's tough, man. Foreign country, very scary, limited options. She lives 14 hours away from her family by plane. Neither she nor her husband is particularly close with their families, which is an important detail, I think, in two ways.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Both that she's physically far away from people who might be able to support her, and that there might be some reason that they're distant. And what is that reason? How has her past with her family informed everything that she's been through?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Her choice in partner, her decision to move to another country, most importantly, how she feels about herself, whether she feels she has the confidence to build her own life. Obviously, we don't know all of these facts, but I'm sure that all of that is playing a big role here.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Yes, right. They're both refugees from their families. I do wonder if that shared trauma or just the shared experience might have bonded them, but also maybe is that keeping her stuck now? The other thing that's keeping her stuck is that she has no friends, no one to confide in. Yeah, that part made me really sad. Yeah, it is very sad.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
She's tried to make friends, but she just can't seem to, as she put it. Interesting.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
When she said that she has one friend back home she could talk to, but she doesn't really want to open up to somebody who knows her because she's embarrassed. She's embarrassed that she's let this happen to her. She knows that it's going to damage their opinion of her husband.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
So here are her two big obstacles to forming the relationships that she really needs to potentially separate and build her own life. The first is shame. She's embarrassed, first and foremost, that she's even in this situation. and also embarrassed about what someone else might think of her for just struggling.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
This kind of shame makes vulnerability very difficult. And without that vulnerability... It's almost impossible for anyone to help us. And again, the roots of that shame are probably very old. This might take some time for her to unpack and heal. But as a starting point, I would ask yourself, what precisely you're embarrassed about?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
What part of you feels too unpleasant or too unworthy of being seen by this friend of yours? I would really sit with that and try to name it if you can. I think that's going to give you a really important insight to yourself. And once you see it clearly, you might not want to let that be the obstacle that it is.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I would also ask yourself, what's more embarrassing, finding yourself in this situation or finding yourself in this situation and not being able to even talk to somebody about it?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
i really like that approach and also as we talk about all the time shame has a way of going away when we just say hey i'm ashamed this is the thing i'm embarrassed about this you just call it out for sure it also has a way of endearing us to other people i think there's something about hearing someone call out their fears their flaws that just like unlocks our empathy yes for sure the other obstacle she's facing is that she's afraid that opening up is going to damage this friend's opinion of her husband
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
That one, she really needs to look at right now, because part of what she's doing here is protecting him. She's protecting this friend's opinion of him. Yeah, which, to go back to this conversation we had last week, what was that letter... Oh, yes, about the guy who didn't want to tell his partner about this terrible thing that his father had done. You remember that? Oh, right.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I think this, in a way, is also a form of control. She's controlling this friend's opinion of her and her husband by not opening up, which taps back into the shame piece. But it might also speak to a part of her that is very concerned about what other people would think of her and what it feels like to not be able to fully control that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
So I would pause and ask yourself here too, why am I so concerned about protecting my husband given what he's done? Is protecting him more important than building a lifeline for myself?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Well, there's another great question for her to ask. But again, I do think this comes back to her, ultimately. By protecting him, she's protecting herself. The part of herself that, in some interesting way, is informed by how other people might feel about her and her husband. What her husband might say about her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
But then she's also kind of locating that part of herself that she's trying to protect in this friend, accurately or not. And that is very cloaked in this isolating shame that she feels, but it's also probably contributing to that shame. So what seems like just prioritizing her husband is actually probably pretty complicated, and it probably ultimately comes back around to her.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Awkward. Yeah, that wasn't very skillful on my part. It was just one of those calls where I'm like, I can't sit here and listen to this without texting you saying, what are we listening to?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
All right, what's next? Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a single woman, not from the US originally, and I work in a very conservative company in the South after being in the South for a long time. I recently started doing 6-minute networking, and some of the contacts I'm interested in reconnecting with professionally are married men.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
But from comments I hear, a lot of people find it suspicious when a single woman contacts a married man, and probably vice versa. The only strategy I can think of is to send a group message to two would-be connections who know each other instead of individual ones. Has anyone else ever mentioned navigating this while avoiding any stigma? Any ideas here?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Signed, trying to make a splash without sounding like I'm trying to smash.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
No, never. If anything, I think women are probably more skeptical about men reaching out to them randomly, but that's a general thing. I've never heard of that being a Southern thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And speaking of packages, I hear your company is offering a great one for new employees. So you guys got any openings? I'm young, dumb, and full of ideas on how to cut costs, specifically in your supply chain logistics. Dude, these are gold. You should write these down and just lead with this on LinkedIn. You'll be fine.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Come on. Yeah, it's like this guy ran the Joint Chiefs of Staff or something. No, you don't get to do that. We ended up in so many weird meetings because we used to go to North Korea. Do you remember the time we met with the manager of the band Air Supply? Yeah. because they wanted to do a concert in Pyongyang. And they were like, these guys have been, they might know how to make that happen.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Hi guys, I live in a condominium building in California with a couple hundred units.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Other residents and I suspect that the building manager and some of the other staff are getting paid under the table for allowing certain maintenance or other jobs to get done when they may not be up to code, or just to look the other way on certain rules and regulations that they should be enforcing. Also, the building has multiple managers, which is expensive.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And it seems like some of them are just walking around doing nothing at times. Some of the staff might even be double dipping by getting paid by certain homeowners to do maintenance jobs when the owners should be paying the homeowners association and not the staff directly.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I do think that the building is generally being maintained pretty well, but we're frustrated that the management and staff are not being honest. But I'm afraid to bring some of these issues up because I don't want to be targeted by these people and have it negatively affect me.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
It's also possible that some of the board members are involved or just getting special favors, like having their maintenance work done before others who are already in the queue. So I don't really want to bring it up with the board either.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Is there a way to anonymously have the books of the building audited or request some type of oversight to see what the managers are actually doing with their time and how different staff members are getting paid? Signed, trying to discuss whether the books are sus without making a huge fuss. Gabe, it's funny how much condo slash HOA drama we've been getting recently. It feels like an uptick.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
That was so funny.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Dude, HOAs are kind of insane. My mom sits on the board of her HOA and it's just like basically a nonstop shit show with the neighbors. Yeah, I've heard just super stressful, always petty crap. It's like running a small country, except you don't get paid at all and people rarely say thank you. So exactly like running a small country, I suppose, yeah.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Actually, it is kind of like running a small country. It's like being the president of Guam or something. I don't know, but with worse parking than Guam, I would imagine.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I kind of love that this person is like the HOA vigilante. Yeah. Like the Batman of condos. Totally.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Although I have to think that the building is going to understand the subtext of that. And if there is shady stuff going on, they're probably going to assume the worst, right?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Yeah, it's fine.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I mean, again, once you initiate a recall, I feel like they're going to know something is wrong, even a special meeting request. So just be prepared for that. You also have a few less official, maybe more creative things you could do.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
You guys could form some kind of informal committee of like-minded residents to talk about what you guys are seeing in the building and compile your documentation, come up with strategies to solve this. And then maybe you guys jointly present to the HOA at the next meeting. If the board hears this from 15 of you guys, as opposed to just one, That will probably make them sit up and pay attention.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
It might also take some of the heat off of you. You could also go to the board members and say, hey, we want to suggest doing some kind of like quarterly financial summaries and having open meetings. We just want to like trust how the building is being managed, that kind of thing.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
That way you can push for changes or make it harder for the board to hide what they might be doing without directly accusing anybody in particular. Even easier though than all of that, maybe you just encourage other residents to use the official channels for maintenance requests and payments and all of that.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Maybe you spread the word through the building over some kind of like neighbor's WhatsApp group or a bulletin board in the lobby or whatever. That might be enough to reduce all of these off-the-books transactions without getting too aggressive.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
My recommendation of the week is a blue light blocking reading light. It's also known as an amber book light. This is an amber colored reading lamp that clips onto the back of your book or your notebook or whatever lets you read and write in the dark. Apparently there are tons of benefits to it. They say that it enhances your visual clarity. It improves contrast, reduces glare.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
It allows your eyes to focus more easily. The main benefit seems to be that it promotes better sleep because you're not taking in that blue light. You're just getting that orange light, which is much better. less eye strain, it's more relaxing, achieves perfect brightness, all of that.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I gotta say, for something under, I don't know, this thing is not expensive, under 20 bucks, this product has been a game changer for me. I love using it. I use it before bed every night when I read. It's also great for traveling on airplanes. You don't have to turn on that overhead light that annoys everybody in your row. It's really great for traveling, for camping.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
It also makes for a great gift for people, especially readers. So we're going to link to one I really like in the show notes, but there are so many options out there. The one I'm going to include has been especially good. Solid little product. I hope you like it.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, a good friend of mine is an avid traveler who loves venturing off the beaten path. As a fellow adventurer, I understand the appeal, but she's starting to explore increasingly dangerous countries. She's been talking about visiting North Korea for a while, and now she's officially booked a trip to Afghanistan, and I'm genuinely worried about her.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I've tried to talk her out of it, but she insists that she's using a reputable tour company, understands the risks, and accepts them. She's promised to monitor the situation and cancel if things get worse, but with the Taliban's ongoing attacks on women's rights, I feel like she's taking a huge and unnecessary risk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I've even tried getting her to listen to your show, especially your episodes on North Korea, but she quote-unquote doesn't like podcasts. So I figured I'd ask you two directly, given your travel expertise. Am I overreacting? If not, how can I try to dissuade her from going? Or should I just step back and accept that it's her life?
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And her decision signed trying to set fire to my friend's desire to visit the graveyard of empires.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
It was so silly. In retrospect, maybe we should have proposed that they promote their domestic brand of beer.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Yeah, Taedonggang or whatever. Taedonggang.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
That's right. It says that right on the label. I remember you, Jordan, you brought a notebook to take notes in that meeting and halfway through the meeting, you just stopped writing things down. There's literally nothing to write down. This is never happening.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
You know, Jordan, when I decided to go back to North Korea, I think it was the second time or maybe the third time my mom was really worried. And she actually got quite angry at me for going back after, you know, we talked pretty publicly about some of the dark stuff that happens there. And she straight up told me like, you are out of your mind for going back.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And my position at the time was, look, I've done my homework. I've talked to the tour company. They say that it's perfectly safe for me. I know how this place works. I'm not looking for trouble. I'm gonna be fine. Looking back, honestly, she had a very fair point.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
But part of the reason that I decided to go back, and this is not entirely logical or responsible, but it was a big part of my decision, is that I just didn't want to be told what to do by someone else, certainly not my mom as an adult. And I didn't want to live a smaller life to make somebody else comfortable.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Although now I completely understand why a parent would be freaked out that their child wants to go back to North Korea. Now that I'm older, I see it differently.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
The thing is, the conversation we had back then wasn't, you know, what are your reasons for going? Here are my concerns. Tell me what you've learned. Is it really worth the risk? Let's figure this out together. It was more like you're wrong. You're insane. I'm really upset. End of story. So it ended up becoming a standoff. And in the end, the trip was totally fine. So I guess I was right.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
But my mom was also right in the sense that the risk probably was not worth the reward. Although I did have a pretty epic time the second time. So there's that. The reason I bring this up is her friend is obviously very adventurous, probably pretty confident. She might have some pride and some identity wrapped up in being the sort of person who travels to Afghanistan.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
So having a friend tell her, hey, you're crazy. Don't do this. I wonder if that might bring up some similar feelings for her. Maybe she resents being told what to do. Maybe she doesn't want to miss these interesting experiences in order to make our friend here feel comfortable. Maybe she feels like she would be admitting fear or vulnerability if she canceled.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Maybe hearing somebody tell her how crazy this trip actually is, is putting her in touch with some tension or even some embarrassment about doing something this risky. And so she's brushing off her friend and doubling down to ward off that discomfort.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Looking back, I felt all of those things when my mom told me not to go to North Korea again. So if you want to give this one more shot with your friend, you might want to invite her to talk more about this stuff.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
You know, what this trip ultimately means to her, what not going might mean to her, what she would think or feel if she canceled, what it's like for her to hear you say, hey, I'm really worried. I'm not sure you should go. You know, how she's responding to that, why it feels so important for her to stick to her guns and go through with this, knowing that there are serious risks.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And just try not to lead her to any conclusion. Try not to judge her responses. Just invite her to talk. Maybe what she shares with you will make you realize that this trip for her is worth the risk. Or maybe that it's not as risky as it seems. Or maybe it'll show her that this actually is a very reckless idea and she's going to change her mind on her own.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Or she'll still want to go, but she'll feel heard and understood. And maybe she'll see why she's being so headstrong. And then you can work around some of those defenses and maybe potentially convince her not to go without provoking this anger or shame or cognitive dissonance. Although given everything Jordan learned from his friend, I am not 100% convinced that she needs to cancel.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
But you kind of have to hold all of those things at the same time. I do think that this conversation is the best bet for arriving at the best possible outcome for her and for you.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, after getting divorced last year, I joined all of the local hiking groups I could find. I learned to hike, learned to make friends, and learned to love myself. I found a couple girlfriends through these groups, but mostly I'm thankful for the friends I've made. I chose the personal growth route instead of drinking at the bar every night to cope with the divorce.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
About six months in, a very tall, chiseled, extroverted, and very charismatic dude showed up. Everybody loves him. Everybody. He's Mr. Popular, and people flock to him when he shows up. The problem is he's very opinionated on every single topic. And he's an outspoken fascist, an outspoken conspiracy theorist.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
And he said things like, I didn't want to vote for Trump because he's too far to the left. Yes, the left, not a typo. And he also says stuff like, I just want people to know just how fascist I am.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Not the vibe our friend here signed up for, I'm guessing, in this hiking group.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Along with these comments are some very racist and misogynistic beliefs as well. He thinks white is the best race. He thinks African countries struggle with poverty because of the low IQ of their population. He uses the rich Western countries as evidence for his beliefs. He's very outspoken about this and other racist beliefs and conspiracies.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
What a weird duo. I'm just picturing them together with hiking sticks. I just have an image of my head of the geopolitical incel guy like getting a piggyback ride from this guy on a hiking trail. Exactly. While he's whispering Vladimir Putin quotes into his ear. Yeah. Weird couple.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
He also knows that I fly drones for fun and one time asked me how hard it would be to attach a handgun to a drone just so he could fly it around.
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1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
He actively wanted to make such a drone, but he thankfully doesn't have the skills to do so. I asked him why he wanted to, and he said it's his, quote, second amendment right to do so, and nobody can stop me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
He loves to debate, and if you give him a topic, he'll go for as long as you let him, and eventually back up his arguments with racist, misogynistic, fascist beliefs that are not typically grounded in reality. Again, this guy is very charismatic, very well-spoken, very extroverted, and absolutely everyone in the group loves him. Even people with different political views are just...
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Haven't earned the honorific yet. What is this doctor business, dude? Is this because you're a JD?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
drawn to this guy like a magnet.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I don't know. It might also speak to the people in this group. That's the other side of this equation. I have some questions.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Yeah, very confusing. I also feel like I can't tell if he genuinely believes in this stuff or if he's one of these people who just really enjoys provoking people. He seems to get off on the attention and kind of a lot of these guys do. Yeah. So it makes me wonder, is this genuine on his part or is he just playing some weird game with this group? Anyway, our friend here goes on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Meanwhile, I feel like an a-hole because I seem to be the only one concerned about any of this at all. I feel like I can't bring up my concerns because everybody speaks and thinks so highly of him. How do I handle someone in the friend group like this? Am I the a-hole? Should I do nothing at all and let his gross beliefs go unchallenged? Isn't that how fascism spreads?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Signed, check this hot mess and his hateful dreck, or try to keep climbing with his boot on my neck.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
Although I hate that the answer might be putting noise-canceling headphones on when our friend here is just trying to, like, enjoy the sounds of nature.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1113: You Just Want to Hike, Not Revisit Third Reich | Feedback Friday
I like that approach. I don't think he's going to get anywhere with this guy by pushing back on the ideas themselves. I think this guy is just way too entrenched.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1087: Can Trust Be Recovered After Diary Discovered? | Feedback Friday
Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Multiple family members who probably had their own conflicts around parenting, the parentification he himself went through, potentially the loss of a stepmother figure because his father didn't want to have more children, which I imagine sent him a few loaded messages. And then there's how all of these people were communicating about all of this, which it sounds like probably not very well.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So not to beat a dead horse here, but I think his no-kids stance is a lot more complicated than just, I want to hang on to my money, I don't want the responsibility. And talking about all of that in therapy, that would be worth doing no matter where he lands on the kids question, just for himself. Maybe he grows and heals so much that he views parenting differently.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Or maybe he grows and he still doesn't want to be a dad. Or maybe he just doesn't grow at all. Or maybe nothing changes. Right. So for our friend here, you need to make peace with the idea that your partner might not change in the exact way that you hope. And even if he does, you can't fully control his process.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And just make sure that you're also taking care of yourself here because your interests are just as legitimate as his.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, my sister's mother-in-law, let's call her Eileen, recently lost her husband only to inherit $500,000 in debt. For the past decade, Eileen and her late husband made questionable financial decisions to obfuscate assets and minimize child support for his daughter from the previous marriage. which he already couldn't afford.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
His ex-wife seems to have made it her mission to ruin not just his life, but now Eileen's as well. All of this comes just weeks after Eileen lost her brother. She can't afford a lawyer unless she sells her house, but she can't sell the house due to pending litigation.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
To make things worse, she's leaning heavily on her son, my brother-in-law, to talk to her lawyer for her and handle this mess that she essentially dumped in his lap. She's now considering fleeing British Columbia, Canada and going abroad to dodge the debt. Now that my brother-in-law has gotten involved, he's worried about his own legal exposure.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
He's already consulting his own lawyer as well as his dad's estate lawyer. We're really close, so I want to be there for him, but I don't want to get caught up in this. Eileen is also a recovering addict. She's been clean for several years, but my brother-in-law is afraid that this added stress will cause a relapse or worse. How legally exposed is my brother-in-law for getting involved?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
How bad could this get for him? Should he just step back and let his mother deal with the storm she created? Would talking to the ex-wife help at all, or is the damage too great? My brother-in-law is a hothead, so this could backfire badly. If Eileen fled the country to Canada, what potential legal fallout could the rest of the family face? And how far away should I stay from the situation?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Signed, looking for a truce and avoiding the noose of this unpaid floos. Floos? What's that? It's Arabic for money. It's one of my favorite words that my grandparents used to use. I just, like, lodged in my brain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Do you know the word bakshish? I love that word. My dad uses that word all the time. Bakshish. It's like a little bribe or a little friendly bribe or something to lubricate a deal. You like throw something in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You know, what's funny about that word, just to nerd out on this for a second, is a variant of that word ended up in British English because of their involvement in the Middle East. There's a word, Bakshi, which in informal British English means free of charge, like Here's a buckshee whiskey or whatever at the bar. It comes from buckshees.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I'm also just thinking about what this woman has been through up till now. She loses her brother, then she loses her husband. Now she's in a legal battle with his ex-wife while trying to settle an estate and sell a house while also managing her recovery, which might be at risk.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Like you said, Jordan, this is a lot for one person to deal with, even if she did have some hand in bringing this drama about. I wonder if wanting to flee the country is not just a way to dodge this debt. It's not just a practical thing. It sounds like it's also a way to run away from this overwhelming situation, which Aaron said, not going to make anything better.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It could actually make things a lot worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Whether she flees to Portugal or just flees into her bedroom and closes the blinds and buries her head under the pillow, metaphorically and literally. Until the sheriff knocks on the door. Yeah. Yeah, it's a problem. So my feeling is, look, our friend here can get involved and try to help if that's what he wants to do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
You could take a backseat and just be available as a sounding board for your brother-in-law, or you could actually step in and assist more if you think you could engage in a way that the others can't or something. Karen said you are not putting yourself at risk with respect to any liability for the debt or any judgment, but this process could take years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So her general thought for you is consider your circumstances, consider your capacity to assist before you jump in, because once you're involved, it might be hard to walk away until this thing is over. Your brother-in-law, on the other hand, his responsibility is more complicated. Eileen is his mom. The obligation is different from yours.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And what happens with the estate, that also directly affects him and also your sister. Again, he's not putting himself at risk by getting involved, but this is obviously a highly contentious, very stressful situation. So one way to help Eileen is with the legal stuff, yes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
But maybe the more impactful way for him to help her is to encourage his mom to take on this responsibility, to not run away or bury her head in the sand. Give her some courage, give her some confidence to work toward a resolution here, or at least ask somebody like a lawyer to help her find that resolution.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So maybe he checks in with her more often and makes sure that she isn't dodging phone calls or mail or paperwork. Maybe he makes sure that she's going to meetings if she works a program or he goes to meetings with her or just makes sure that she's staying sober. Maybe he can enlist a few other relatives who can help keep an eye on her.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It sounds like that's the kind of support that Eileen really needs more than anything.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It's like, let me give this ex-wife who's angry that you didn't pay her child support for the last 15 years. Tell her to calm down a little bit.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 30-year-old divorced father of a 6-year-old child. As a millennial, I was among the first generation that grew up with ubiquitous access to the internet. I remember being with friends and seeing things I should not have seen at a young age. So I'm acutely aware of how unrestricted internet access can do harm. Oh, seriously.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I mean, porn aside, do you remember Rotten.com? Rotten.com. I do, unfortunately, remember that website. Just wall-to-wall autopsy photos, that website. And worse.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Furiously Googling. No, don't do it. I'm not going to do it. Just really horrific photos. There's some weird stuff on the Internet back then, man. The 90s Internet was wild. Different place. So he goes on.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
While my parents did an okay job teaching me the risks of using the internet at the time, the landscape has changed dramatically, and I often feel concerned for my daughter's safety in the coming years. I foresee many talks with her about digital footprint, talking to strangers online, cyberbullying, etc. I don't want to fearmonger, but I do think that a healthy fear of the risks is a good thing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
What are some tools and strategies that I can use to teach her about internet safety now while she's still young and in the future as she grows up? Signed, Taking the Right Steps to Protect My Girl on the Interwebs.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
What is that?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Just incremental progress.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Thank you. Thank you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I am a bird catcher. Bird goes into store, store calls company, company dispatches me, I go catch bird. Okay, got it. You're a bird catcher. I'm going to start describing our job like that. Do's hits person, person writes inbox, inbox goes to show, we catch do's. We are do's catchers. Do's catchers. The job is great.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
The company, meanwhile, takes any opportunity it can to roll costs onto the lowest workers. Side note, I wonder what makes the job great if the company sucks. Yeah. Does the job look amazing? Maybe catching birds is just super therapeutic. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Just you and the animal, but you don't hurt them. You get them out to safety. That's right. Yeah.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
How many cockatoos do you think are flying into Barnes and Nobles?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Not selling a lot of cookbooks though, are they? Okay. Nice. So he goes on. There are about 120 of us out in the field all across the US, 10 or so regional managers, some IT and dispatch, and then about 10 at the top calling the shots, which we call the inner circle.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
All of the company's communication is over video or phone, and I've only ever met maybe nine of my coworkers in person, most of them just once. This model has produced a very fractured company, and there's a lot of language in the handbook that makes that seem intentional.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
For example, we're allowed to contact coworkers only through approved apps, so the conversations can be monitored, and any discussion of company matters outside this method is considered backchanneling. and grounds for termination.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So it's hard to know exactly how every employee in the company is treated, but here are some common themes. We get half of the going rate for mileage and I drive 50,000 miles a year on my own car. Employees have been asked not to report overtime. We don't get holiday pay. We don't get vacation or sick time.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
We don't get paid unless we catch every bird and another bird doesn't enter the store for the next 48 hours. This is called a revisit and it happens about once every six jobs for me, which is average for the company.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I'm trying to figure out, they're catching the bird, right? They're not having a neighborhood meeting with all the birds in the area, telling them not to come back. Like it's their fault if the message didn't stick. I'm so confused about it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
One time, I was even denied pay after a bird entered a store well after the 48-hour window.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
When I brought this up to my regional manager, they were told by the inner circle to tell me, that was our decision. I responded, I understand that, but I need to know why that decision was made as it affects my paycheck. The response to this was, that was our decision and we consider the matter closed.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Come on. I requested a meeting with anyone in upper management and was denied. I don't know if I have any recourse because even though I work full-time hours, I think I'm technically freelance or a contract worker. I tried looking up some labor laws, but I don't know if they apply. Oh, they apply.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Is my employer bound by its home state's laws, my state's laws, or the laws in the five other states I work in? How do I pass the information along about what rights we have to the other employees without triggering some sort of anti-union response? Signed, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, unless that bush is near a commonly used door. That was all him. He came up with that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 32, and my 33-year-old husband and I have been together for 10 years and married for five. I grew up in a small town and understood that getting married and having children were my primary goals early on. We dated for a bit, and when I told him that, he broke it off because he didn't want kids.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I think now we know for sure why they don't want their employees talking to one another.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Famously, Floridian law allows for assault of your employees. That is such a Florida law.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Which makes me wonder, is that why they're so scared of their employees talking? Because they know that they need to be across this and they don't want to deal with the headache of tracking all of these different laws and rates and protections and stuff across all these different states. Is it possible that this is more laziness than malice?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
His reasons for not wanting children were he's seen a child complicate a marriage that ends in divorce twice, financial stability, freedom, lack of responsibility. He was a parentified teenager at 15 years old helping raise two half-sisters from both sides of the family. And his dad was married to a woman who wanted children and his dad didn't. So she ended up leaving him for someone else. Oof.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, good point. As for how to tell your colleagues about what rights you guys have and try to hopefully avoid triggering some kind of anti-union response, I am not sure that you can do that. Like we keep saying, this is probably exactly what your company is afraid of.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And once they get wind of this, they're probably going to want to shut it down or convince you guys not to band together or speak up or compare notes because it just seems to be their MO.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
If you're going to tell your fellow bird catchers about what you've learned and push your company to make things right, I would prepare for a little bit of a fight. You're going to have to be willing to take some heat if you really want to make a change here. The good news is a growing number of states have prohibited employers from forbidding employees to discuss their pay for this reason.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Again, this does differ state to state, but it sounds like the law might be very much on your side here.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Nice. Who's the pretentious a-hole now? Thank you. Look, I know like one of these every six months. No, this is great. That really helped even out the scales on the whole Buxy digression.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I appreciate that.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay. Interesting.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, they're going to be reading the AI transcript on that video chat app that they have and be like, oh, attorneys general. This guy's been doing his research.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
By the way, the other advantage to reaching out to these labor boards is if your employer is violating any laws, then you would probably have some whistleblower protections and you'll be on firmer ground. But just know, even if you do have whistleblower protections, you can still be fired for cause, unfortunately.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
And if you work in a state where employers can prohibit employees from talking about their salaries and stuff like that, yeah, again, this could be considered a cause. Just want to give you all the information.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Great for him, bad for the company is what I meant.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, no, I'm a little confused myself. It's not really a reason not to have kids. It's just an example in their family of another couple that wanted different things, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Howdy, Jordan and Gabe. Two months ago, I started dating a new guy. He's communicative, kind, and funny, and he makes me feel very comfortable in my own skin. A very new and relieving feeling for me. The problem is, he doesn't brush his teeth regularly. It's a huge turnoff when I see food or whatever stuck in his teeth. Ooh, Gabe, this is your nightmare.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Gabe needs to schedule a therapy session after this. Yeah, I'm just like texting my dentist. Squeeze me in for a bonus. He's talked about getting them clean with his new insurance. That's great, but irrelevant if he doesn't maintain brushing. There's another issue, too. He seems to be very insecure when it comes to relationships.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
When we first started talking, he told me a lot about himself and rarely asked questions. Not to show off or be macho, he seemed more concerned about me liking him. Not secure enough to be curious about me.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay. All right. He says he's someone who needs to be pushed in the right direction. For example, the teeth. So this is about the teeth again. My resentment is now building, and I'm becoming annoyed. It feels like I'm mothering him a little. I've been single for many years and have a low tolerance for nonsense. When I date, most of my relationships don't even last three months.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I know I have to work on my empathy and patience. But is this something I need to wait out? Is this a normal feeling? What else should I do to view him in a better light? Or should I just start over? Signed, scraping the tartar off this relationship before it decays. Oh, man.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, all of which makes me wonder why exactly he makes her feel so comfortable. Look, I totally hear her that he's kind, he's funny, he's communicative, and he might be like a wonderful guy in every other respect. And some combination of these qualities, maybe just his overall vibe as a person, that is nice. And it's new for her. She described it as a relief.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Although actually now that I'm thinking about it, Jordan, I'm having a little bit of a hard time squaring the whole he's really communicative thing. And it's like a relief to be with him thing with some of these other qualities. Like he often makes it about himself. He needs to be pushed to do things. He doesn't always understand or care how he comes across. I'm just like, it's confusing.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Maybe he's made more room for her as they've gotten to know each other. So yeah, fair enough. That's the case. But I guess what I'm wondering is why does this guy who's clearly annoying you now, who's making you resentful and who makes you feel like you're mothering him, why does this particular person also make you feel so comfortable? Why is that such a relief?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Just something maybe to explore because there might be something about this dynamic that on one hand is maddening and on another hand maybe is familiar and gratifying.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Yeah, I appreciate that reason of his the most out of all the reasons on that list. So she goes on. I was devastated by that, but ultimately told him I could compromise for now. We got back together and we've had a wild ride of fun and adventure and our life has truly been awesome. Lots of camping, mountain biking, fishing, etc. across two states.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Okay, I hear that. That could totally be what's happening. But still, for someone who's been single for many years, who says she has a low tolerance for nonsense, who says she needs to work on her empathy and her patience... It sounds to me like she's being pretty empathic and patient with this guy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
So it's just curious to me that she's finding so many competing experiences in the same partner, like comfort and resentment, attraction and annoyance, this impulse to mother and also the impulse to let him be or even to leave this relationship. So whenever those conflicts exist in the same relationship, I think there's something more to know about the dynamic.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I really like that approach and I totally agree. They do have some important stuff to talk about. I don't know if it's necessarily game over, but yeah, there's a way to kind of blame the other person and say you need to change and there's a way to open up a larger dialogue. So given all of that. I find her other question, what should I do to view him in a better light?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
I think that's a really interesting question.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
In her mind, there are two options. Either she adjusts herself so these problems of his don't seem like problems anymore, or she leaves. Not a lot of room for conversation in there.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It might be. And do conversations like this even feel possible for her? Does she feel like there's room in her relationships to say, hey, I really like you for this reason and that reason and that reason. And I'm also concerned and a little annoyed about this and that other thing. And I want to talk about it. To be able to have that conversation, which let's recognize not always easy, right?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
Every year or so, we would do a quick, do you want kids conversation? And the answer was always no, because we were having fun. We stopped checking in around the time we got married. I wanted children the whole time, but it would have been a difficult conversation and served as an emotional ripcord. So I didn't pull it.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
It can be intense. It can be scary. It can be uncomfortable, even if it's something as quote unquote small as brushing your teeth, of course. But to be able to have a conversation like that with a partner and to tolerate the feelings that an honest conversation about these qualities is going to bring up.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1136: Marriage on Skids If You Can't Agree on Kids? | Feedback Friday
That can be the difference between having relationships that only last a few months and having relationships that evolve and deepen and last for months or years. So I wonder if that's one of the things underlying her pattern to either be single for long stretches of time or to have short relationships.
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Just this willingness to confront and work through these things as opposed to either contorting yourself so that things don't bother you, which... never ultimately works or giving up quickly and leaving and being single. So you don't have to deal with this kind of stuff at all. Like you said, Jordan, maybe these conversations with her partner are successful. Maybe they're not.
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It's going to require both of them to want to take this stuff on, but it sounds like just giving it a try would be a really big step for her. And if he doesn't meet her in the same spirit, or if he agrees with her, but he doesn't make any changes, then she'll know whether she's leaving because she's avoiding something or because this guy is not ultimately the right person for her.
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You... read my mind i was also thinking i just also really want this guy to floss and rubber tip if you can get him to but that's rather besides the point rubber tipping slow down gabe let's get this guy shoving a toothbrush in his mouth for 60 seconds just a couple times a week then we can talk about rubber tipping whatever that is we'll work up we gotta go from the couch to 5k but with his mouth
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What is that called?
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Before you know it, you'll be moving it around. That's right. I don't know, man. I'm just thinking about this dude's gums. Those things must be in rough shape.
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As we've aged, I've worked on my personal and emotional growth. I can honestly say I am the most healed version of myself today, and my former self is almost unrecognizable to me. Oh, I know the feeling. I now know for sure that I'm ready to be a mom. I feel it in my bones.
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I told my husband that yesterday, and he received it with compassion, but was emotional, because his immediate reaction was, f***. Oof.
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Or was it like, I'm guessing it was because the party's over. Yeah. He's never wanted children, but is now torn between a life with me and a life without me. He's doing everything to try to understand if this is a future he wants, really trying to make a responsible and well-informed choice. He's great that way. but he's not a naturally nurturing person. And I am.
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I'm concerned that he'll convince himself that quality doesn't matter or that he can figure it out. And I don't know if that's possible. I haven't seen him be nurturing of his own accord outside of times of distress in a decade.
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Very distressing. That quality is going to come out. Exactly. Yeah. Pop one out. I'm also the more emotionally apt person in our relationship, and I do a lot of teaching with him about understanding and validating feelings. His, mine, other people's. That's fine with me without a child, although it's annoying sometimes.
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But I'm concerned that he doesn't know this about himself, or won't acknowledge the impact that this could have on a child and on our marriage. I'm worried about feeling like I'm teaching two children about caring for themselves and others' emotional lives. Should we have children? How do I navigate this decision? Signed, debating whether to reproduce when my dude's a bit obtuse.
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Is it my job to induce, seduce, or simply deduce that creating a youth is not his pursuit?
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Different genre of the cajole. That's right. Cajole, nonetheless. Not the vibe you want when you're creating another human life.
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Hard agree. This worries me. Obviously, I'm thinking about the question we took a week or two ago from the couple in their early 40s. Do you remember them? The ones who lived in Central Europe and they were trying to decide whether to have a child. It's funny, Jordan, because our stance there was we can't really tell you whether you should have kids or shouldn't have kids.
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You guys have to decide for yourself. But the facts in this story are much starker. As soon as one partner is mostly a no on this decision, I'm with you. I can't really imagine wanting to proceed. My only caveat is this.
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If your partner is interested in unpacking his conflicts around having kids, maybe coming to a new understanding of them, potentially changing his views about having children, there might be a process worth exploring here. You're 32 years old.
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You don't have a ton of time to spend waiting for a partner to catch up to where you are, but it's also not your last chance to have kids in the next year or two. So if you're willing and if he's willing, then maybe you guys explore some of these concerns. Again, if they're things that are actually resolvable for him, maybe they're not.
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I can't quite tell from your letter whether your partner is saying, look, I was parentified as a kid and I had to raise my sister, so I find the idea of being a parent again really hard and I want the rest of my life to just be about me. Which, just to be clear, that is a fair stance. He has every right to feel that way.
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But that's different from, I was parentified as a kid and it really did a number on me and it's made me wary of responsibility and I'm afraid of making my own child have to go through something like that, whatever the impacts of that childhood were for him. But maybe I can work through some of that. Maybe I can learn how to be a different kind of parent.
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Maybe I can find a new relationship with responsibility that doesn't feel as scary or doesn't feel as suffocating. Completely different. So my question is, how fixed is he? How open is he to talking about this stuff? Ideally in therapy, maybe also in couples therapy with you. Does he view these things as just unchangeable qualities? This is just the way I am.
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These are my firm beliefs and they're non-negotiable. Or is there some openness there? So that's my caveat. You might have a little time to talk through some of this stuff, but it'll still be a gamble whether he comes out the other side as a yes. So I think you have to ask yourself if you're willing to spend another six months or a year or more as he does that on his own or with you.
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And maybe the answer is I can't afford to do that. I know enough now to know that this is probably a no and I need to prioritize myself. Not telling you where to land, I'm just giving you a couple options here.
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Yeah, that's a good point. Like you would think he would look at that and go, wow, this issue can really divide a couple. I better look at this and see if I really don't want kids so I don't lose my partner unnecessarily.
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Honestly, what I'm hearing in that list of reasons is that there's a pattern in his family of ambivalence around having children and also people paying the price for that. He's also seen a child complicate two marriages that ended in divorce.
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We don't know exactly what that means, but then also he was thrust into a father role when he was a teenager, which might also speak to his parents' inability sometimes to properly parent his sisters and also his parents' failure to protect him. These are all very real, very interesting wounds.
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But also kind of what narcissism is designed to do, right? It's designed to protect the ego against various threats.
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Yep, their opinions and also difficult feelings in oneself.
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Or even, my ideas are not very sound. They don't hold up to scrutiny. Or even something like, my son kicked my niece and really hurt her. How does that reflect on me as a parent?
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Which if his mom really is as problematic as you say, and your nephew is not cut from the same cloth, if you can see his mom objectively, even a little bit. And I have a feeling that he will, because it's like, you know, how can you ignore the fact that your mom is being kicked out of church and is not on speaking terms with multiple ex-husbands and most of her family.
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And I'm just filling in all the blanks, posting crazy conspiracy theories on Facebook at some point. he will probably go, huh, I wonder if my mom is a little nuts or a little questionable.
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So if he's open to forming his own opinions about her, there is a timeline where you guys find your way back to each other and your relationship flourishes in, I don't know, eight, nine, 10 years or so, or who knows, maybe even sooner.
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That is a great idea. I did not think of that. Although you guys would have to decide how to handle that with your sister, because if she finds out you're secretly seeing her son behind her back with her ex-husband's permission, I'm guessing she's going to lose her mind.
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But if it's true that she ultimately can't have both, she's going to have to decide what's more important, right? She's going to have to either protect herself or stay close with her nephew.
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Yeah, I tend to agree. And so I think what she's coming to terms with is that she might have to miss her nephew quite a bit for a period of time. And there's going to be some grief associated with that.
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Yeah, let's do it. What are you thinking?
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To some degree. Right. Because she might have a very difficult past, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have some responsibility to take care of herself. And so our friend has to balance her empathy with that fact. Yeah. Her sister is objectively out of control. She has some good reasons for that, or at least one good reason. But then it's on her to work on it. She can go to therapy.
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She can go to anger management class or some other class. I don't know. Not melting down by the holy water class. I don't know if that exists, but it's a niche workshop. That's pretty niche.
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No. To really investigate her political beliefs. I mean, she can do some things to work on.
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So that's part of our friend's grief here too, to look at her sister and go, I have so much compassion for how you ended up this way. And I'm not sure if I can really fully be in your life. I also find it fascinating that her sister accused her of sabotaging her legal case. It's an interesting word.
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Look, if she did call our friend here and tell her about the abuse and our friend forgot, which does not seem to be the case, but hey, it's possible. That does not mean that she sabotaged her sister. There's a whole story in that word sabotage that is above and beyond the facts here.
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So the fact that the sister is spinning this into a narrative that her sister was actively trying to harm her or discredit her or make it impossible for her to get justice, even if this phone call did somehow happen, that's actually very sad and worrisome. I mean, it's insane to her, obviously, but objectively speaking. And it might speak to the wound underlying her sister's personality.
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slash possible personality disorder, the fact that she feels like no one is really on her side. And that might get construed in some convoluted way into people are actually out to hurt me, including my family.
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That is a really good take. And also conspiracy theories give people a sense of community as well, right?
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Which again, if she struggles to feel that people are really on her side, you can imagine how compelling that sense of belonging and connection might be, even if it is being mediated through some highly questionable ideas. The last thing we have to touch on, man, Jordan, this is just a Russian nesting doll of a question. It just doesn't stop. But I do think it's playing a big role here.
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We got to talk about their mom. Yeah, well, she's kind of the figure hanging over the whole story, right? There were two moments in the letter that captured something really interesting about their mom. The first is when she said that weeks after the spanking incident, her mom was completely upset by the whole thing. And she asked our friend here to, quote unquote, bring peace to the family.
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I heard you. You jumped in. And that prompted our friend to apologize to her sister and explain herself. The other moment that jumped out to me was when her mom asked her to lie under oath and say that she did receive that phone call, once again, to keep the peace.
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Yep, for sure. So in two different contexts separated by years and who knows how many more situations there were like this. Mom is asking our friend here to accommodate her sister under the guise of keeping things on an even keel and doing right by the family.
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In a way that benefits her, exactly. And often at her own expense. So in one situation, she pays the price by continuing to be subjected to her sister's wild accusations of abuse. And in the other situation, she pays the price by contradicting her own memory, her own experience, and having to lie for her sister.
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Yeah, it's a really big deal to do that. And again, I know it's not the main thing that she's writing in about. She's asking about her nephew.
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Yeah, I think they are. I just have a strong hunch that this keeping the peace thing says a lot about the whole model for their relationship growing up and the dynamic that developed between them and the way that their mom, I imagine, prioritized her sister over her in a number of ways. And all of the understandable anger that she feels not just toward her sister, but
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Even though they had proceeds from the sale. I know that's an interesting detail.
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It's interesting that you read into that a desire for control. I think maybe that's another example of the mom capitulating to the sister's demands or just, I don't know. Because again, then she and the other daughter pay the price, but they get to live rent free, even though they have the money to live on their own. It's just interesting.
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But yeah, that is how she found herself in the kitchen that morning, exasperated with her nephew while his mom was in the other room. And that is the moment when all of this came to a head.
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That is a hot take. I think there's something there. I agree. Jordan, I'm also wondering what it is about QAnon specifically that might speak to this person. Yes, she might be conspiratorial in general. Any conspiracy theory might do the trick, so to speak. But it's interesting that she has a background of abuse. She was part of this high-profile sexual abuse case.
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Isn't a lot of QAnon about pedophiles and busting people who are abusing children and There's kind of like a messianic, like we're going to protect the most vulnerable people and that the elites are hurting people.
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It makes me wonder if maybe what she went through also predisposes her to a conspiracy theory like this, where she might feel protected and heard by this community that is spinning these crazy myths about our society. And yeah, I just wonder if there's some connection there.
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Let me solve the riddle of me instead of trying to figure out this bizarre riddle on X.
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And meanwhile, my sister is sabotaging me, and my ex-husband doesn't care about me, and these people are not taking me seriously, and it's taking me years to get justice, but these people over here, they are looking out for my interests. Yeah, I just see the dots between one experience and this privilege.
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Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 50-year-old elementary English as a second language teacher with a stable family life, great kids, a loving and hardworking husband, a nice house, and a high salary at the top of the pay scale in a district where teachers are paid very well. Despite all this, I hate my job. Don't get me wrong, I love the kids. They're great.
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I have a close colleague who does everything to make my life easier, even if it means taking on more work herself. Working alongside her is the best part of the job. But otherwise, our work environment is a nightmare. I teach nearly 100 students daily in an open hallway space without walls or doors.
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Some groups are as large as 18 to 20 students in a space meant for about 10, making it impossible to manage, let alone teach effectively. We're packed in there like sardines, and there's no other option for a classroom space. Most of my time is spent chasing down missing and late students rather than providing meaningful instruction.
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Our caseload has increased every year, and this year is worse than ever. Administrative support is minimal, with ridiculous expectations on us from upper admin. Although my principal is reasonable, he is inexperienced and overwhelmed. Oh, bro, this is so bleak. Our education system, man, this is... What a sad state of affairs. Seriously, for the kids and the teachers.
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In America, dude. This is not Aleppo. This is America. No wonder so many teachers are going out of their minds. What the hell? I feel trapped. I have six years until I can retire with a full pension and health benefits, which are critical since my husband, a small business owner, relies on my insurance and doesn't have a pension.
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Other districts often require 10 years of service to get retirement benefits, making it risky for me to change jobs. I know I'm fortunate to have a stable, high-paying position, and I think I'll be glad when I have a six-figure pension and don't have to work again if I don't want to. I realize most professions don't have that perk, which is huge.
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but I'm exhausted, angry to have been put in this position where I was set up to fail and unsure how I'll endure this for six more years. I'm crying every morning when I drive to work and find myself on the verge of tears several times throughout the day. Man, that's intense. I am so sorry. This has gotten bad. It's painful, yeah. I feel like I chose the wrong career, but it's too late to change.
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I know six years can go by quickly, but I'm not sure what next year will bring if this year is this horrible, and I don't want to wish my life away either. I did open up an Etsy shop a couple years ago as a side hustle and really enjoy that as a creative outlet, but it's only making me a little fun money at the moment.
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Should I just bide my time, try my best, take mental health days and suck it up for a few more years? Am I truly stuck? Is there anything else I can do to get through these next few years? Signed, suffer through till I can hustle anew? or jump ship and say few, because I'm struggling too.
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Yeah, in a trailer. Yeah, we had those too. They can't give her one of those? It was a different time, Jordan. You grew up in the golden age of the trailer.
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I'm having the exact same reaction. What she is struggling with the most here, besides her desire for freedom, is just this lack of meaning. Because of the way the system is, there just doesn't seem to be much of that in her job.
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i think you crave making an impact you want to have an emotional connection to your work and that's just not possible when you spend most of your time chasing down missing students and sweating in the hallway and everyone's uncomfortable because you're packed in like sardines the fact that you're crying on your way to work every day
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Clearly that speaks to your despair, your frustration, the sense of being trapped and not having a way out. But I think it also speaks to your hunger, your really beautiful hunger for purpose. So my only other thought would be try to create that meaning wherever you can over the next six years.
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It might be in your one-on-one interactions with your best students, the ones who actually show up to class outside of the classroom or outside of the hallway, as the case may be. The ones who make teaching worthwhile. Maybe you make a few extra minutes to talk to them about their goals or give them detailed feedback on their homework or just invite them to share a little bit about their lives.
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That can be super rewarding. And it might also be about finding small ways to make the system better if that's interesting to you. Maybe you lobby your principal for certain things or you sit on an advisory committee or join the fundraising committee to raise money for a new classroom or you start a sub stack where you write about the challenges of being a teacher these days.
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I'm just throwing out options, but you see where I'm going.
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One of our listeners made that for you. That's right. I don't think I've gotten mine yet, but I think it might be coming.
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Yeah, you have a venti not your lawyer mug over there. That's right. But yeah, starting a side hustle like that, it's stimulating and it can give you some meaning, but it also gives you a few more degrees of freedom.
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Yes, I need to stick it out at the school for the pension, but I also have this awesome thing that I've built, and I'm capable of so much more, and I get to touch people's lives in a way that I just can't at school. That's powerful. And obviously there are so many other sources of meaning that have nothing to do with work, friends and family and hobbies and...
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A spiritual life and maybe even playing with the idea of a second career after this one. Maybe one that is more fulfilling. Maybe one that's closer to what you feel is your true calling. All of these are crucial. But yeah, I'm with Jordan. I would probably stick it out too at this point and find ways of coping.
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But part of the coping is finding the meaning that the school, sadly, has largely made impossible.
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Remember the guy who's going to the networking event at the hotel? Yeah, the topless parties, the bottomless parties.
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Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I've achieved a high rank in the Army Reserve and continue to serve. On the civilian side, I have an equally successful career in ministry. I treat people kindly, do a lot of counseling in both of my roles, and spend much of my time caring for others. I'm also happily married to my second wife and am loving life. She and I love spending time together and have similar values.
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We're both physically active and enjoy being outdoors, and we have similar worldviews, religious beliefs, etc. My first wife had some pretty severe mental issues, namely bipolar disorder, which she medicated with vodka. She was inconsistent in her personality and cruel to the people around her. For religious and commitment reasons, I stuck it out for 20 years.
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When we finally got divorced, I emerged with custody of my daughter and no alimony. I am so much happier now and enjoying life with someone who is healthy and loving. The challenge is my 16-year-old daughter. I believe some of the same mental health struggles have been passed down to her.
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She's been diagnosed as bipolar, she's slightly on the spectrum, and she's very intelligent and highly manipulative. She's been hospitalized three times for self-harm and threats to others.
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I've been able to get her incredible amounts of help, regular psychiatric care, medication, counseling, the hospitalizations, an individualized education program at school, and I'm in constant communication with her school advisor. We live in a large home in a rural area with around four acres of land, apple trees, grapevines, gardens, a pumpkin patch, etc.
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It's an emotionally, physically, and spiritually safe place. She lacks for nothing. In her better moments, she tells me how grateful she is for everything. But she's usually not in that mood. I'm gaslighted constantly. She'll complain if she isn't woken up, she yells at me if I wake her up, and yes, she has an alarm.
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Was he one of those weird Disney adults who goes every two or three months? I don't know.
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She screams profanities constantly and tells my wife and me to F off on a regular basis. My wife and I don't swear, maybe once in a while, so she isn't in an anxious house with yelling and that sort of behavior. She struggles to maintain friendships and constantly blames others, friends, boyfriends, teachers, her birth mother. Nothing is ever her fault. She lives in filth in her room.
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Our home is very clean, but she refuses to clean her space. I give consequences, grounding, taking away her phone, fining her with money even, but with zero success. Meanwhile, our boys, who are 23 and 17, are respectful, caring, and considerate. Good human beings. We're now at our wit's end with her. I worry that she might not ever be a very nice person. I would ask her to move out, but to where?
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Her mom isn't in a position to take her. We've reached out to some resources recommended by her guidance counselor. One of them is a residential program, but it costs well into the six figures. I'm not that kind of pastor who makes big money. Most of us pastors just make normal middle-class incomes. Do you have any other ideas? Are there resources out there that I haven't tapped? What would you do?
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signed trying to stay affectionate but hitting a bunch of impediments to treating my daughter's temperament, which is both intelligent and malevolent.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And by the way, once your daughter is an adult, you won't be able to make her go to treatment. But at her age, you do have a lot more say in whether she attends a program and which programs she attends. So I would take advantage of this window while you have it.
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The other thing Dr. Margolis pointed out, and I thought this was a really insightful point is that your daughter has a uniquely tricky history. You said that she struggles to maintain relationships with friends and boyfriends and teachers and her mother. And I can imagine why that might be given her childhood.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But Dr. Margolis pointed out that we don't exactly know what your daughter believes about herself, about relationships, about other people. For example, this pattern she has of blaming other people, pushing them away, not taking responsibility. Look, there might be a lot of things that inform that response.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But if your daughter has some trauma from her relationship with her mom and probably some feelings of abandonment and maybe some anger, whatever else is going on there. And let's say that that's created a complicated attachment model for her. She might relate to other people in a way that reinforces some of those fears that helps create the conclusion.
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See, people really aren't there for me or see people really do leave me. Dr. Margolis explained that when we have these experiences again and again, it's often because of these core beliefs we have about other people and about the world in general. Those beliefs can get activated at various times. They might drive a lot of the behavior that you're describing in your daughter.
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And so if you stop trying to help her, or if you kick her out of the house, say, which I know you don't want to do, you know, eventually, if you guys part ways, you don't know which beliefs are going to get triggered or reinforced or what the long-term consequences of those beliefs might be.
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And your house is not haunted by any weird spirits?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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So Dr. Margolis's general insight here was, from an attachment perspective, a lot of your job as a parent is to just keep showing up, to keep loving your daughter, to keep saying, No matter what, as a parent, even when I don't agree with your behavior, even when I don't approve of how you treat me, I'm going to continue loving you and trying to help you regardless.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And Dr. Margolis wanted to acknowledge that is really difficult to do when you have a child who is volatile, who's combative. But in terms of helping a challenging child become the most well-adjusted adult they can be, not giving up on her completely is crucial. And it could play a pivotal role in her long-term mental health and just her general adjustment over time.
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Who, by the way, are also paying quite a big price here. And that's not entirely fair either. Exactly. Yeah, totally.
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I like that a lot, Jordan. And I'm really glad Dr. Margolis explained that because it's something I think about a lot when we talk about boundaries on the show, because like so many of the stories we take are about family members or friends who just ignore them. And then it's like, okay, now what? Ultimately, it's about us.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But listen, Dr. Margolis also pointed out that at the end of the day, depending on how your daughter evolves and how she engages with the help that you're getting her and how she engages with you and your whole family, there might not be that much you can do here. And especially not for much longer, given her age. It's possible.
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I'm not saying that it's written in stone, but I might prepare for this outcome. It's possible that your daughter will continue to struggle and drive people away and go in and out of being grateful for your help. She might always struggle to some degree in her life, and that might be very hard for you to watch. And if that's the case, then you're also working through a process that is yours.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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You're making sense of some complicated feelings about your daughter and There's a kind of grief associated with all of this, especially given what kind of person you are, right? You treat people kindly. You spend much of your time caring for other people. It sounds like this is your calling. It's very gratifying to you.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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And I can imagine that you're used to being able to help people to see that you are making an impact. So finding that you're not having the same outcome with your daughter must bring up a lot. So of course, Dr. Margolis wanted to encourage you to seek out your own sources of support. One great resource we love to talk about on the show is NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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They have a ton of resources on their website for loved ones of people who are struggling with mental illnesses. There's literature, support groups, clinicians, all kinds of stuff. Highly recommend checking it out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Dr. Margolis also felt that it would be very helpful for you to have your own support in figuring out what to do here. So other pastors or people in ministry you could talk to, a therapist would be great, maybe support groups for parents of children like your daughter. I think some community would be really helpful. I would also look into books and podcasts that deal with these subjects.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Obviously, try to look for ones that are written by actual experts, you know, psychologists, ideally people with real experience, not just ones hosted by two comedians who have a crazy mom or whatever. Those are fun too, but It would be great to get some high quality insights as you figure out how to work with your daughter.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Yes. And by the way, we're going to link to all of these in the show notes for you so you can check them out.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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I should probably Google that part. So I just chat GPT this and I cannot say with 100 percent certainty that chat GPT is correct. But you know how there's that term Mickey Mouse to kind of describe things as disorganized or amateurish.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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so apparently during and after the vietnam war some veterans used that term to talk about certain aspects of the military and training and operations because things were you know a cluster inefficient yeah so i guess they would describe the military and certain people they came across as mickey mouse so that could be one but interestingly in 1969 there was apparently an underground anti-war animated short film titled mickey mouse in vietnam
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
It's insane how powerful these AI platforms are. And it's interesting. I'm finding one of the hardest things is retraining my brain to just use ChatGPT instead of going straight to Google because I'm so used to doing things myself that it can easily do in five seconds because my brain, I'm still on the old brain.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Also, random pro tip, when you use ChatGPT, try hitting the little globe icon below your query. That turns on the search function, and then it includes additional sourcing and hyperlinks with whatever ChatGPT hits you back with when you ask it a question.
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So the upside is that you have some extra confidence that what it's giving you is accurate, or at least you can consider the source while you read the answer. It's especially useful when you're researching current events or politics, but it also helps protect against That weird thing when ChatGPT gives you an answer that you know is not correct or you suspect might not be complete.
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Sometimes the AI just hallucinates and it gives you an answer even though it doesn't know the answer. So turning on the search function can help protect against that because you can tell when it's actually pulling from a real source.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe. I'm a 41-year-old man who suffered narcissistic abuse and sexual assault in my former marriage. It started with small things. She took advantage of my insecurities, low self-esteem, and ADHD. She slowly wore me down, day by day, year by year. She used the mistakes I did make to punish me and further the control and abuse. The cycle went on for 16 years.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Oof, holy smokes, that is dark. It took a friend saying to me, dude, that's abuse, for things to finally click. It still took almost three more years after that to finally escape. After I left, things got turned up to 11. She saw her narcissistic supply leaving and pulled out all the stops to get me back.
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She had my friends and children convinced I was deeply mentally ill and on the brink of suicide. Without the support of my friends, I would have folded and still been in the middle of the abuse. It wasn't easy to leave. It's still hard some days when I hear through the grapevine the stories that she tells. I still catch myself wondering if it was all in my head.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
I wanted to share that it's possible to get out, that it's never too late, and that abuse happens to men as well. You're not as alone as your abuser wants you to believe you are. Your show guys and the other listeners who have shared their stories have really helped me feel less alone. Oh man. That's really something. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you both for what you do.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
I really appreciate it. Signed, a grateful survivor who managed to decipher how to be wiser after nearly being a lifer. So, Jordan, I wanted to take this story because we've taken so many letters over the past year or two from women who have escaped narcissistic partners and just abusive partners in general.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
And in this movie, Mickey Mouse enlists in the army, travels to Vietnam and is promptly killed. And the whole thing was apparently a stark commentary on the war. So I wonder if that explains the Mickey Mouse emblem on the back.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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But I don't believe we've taken a letter from a man who's been through something this extreme. I just find it fascinating. And I think it's important to remember that this stuff really can happen to both genders, from both genders. It's crazy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
What really struck me about the letter is how important his friends were in all of this. It sounds like it was almost impossible for him to see what was happening. I mean, it's still hard for him, which is really interesting and must speak to the legacy of abuse and perhaps maybe some vulnerabilities he had to a partner like this.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
But when he couldn't see his situation clearly, someone else was able to say, hey, let me explain to you what's happening. Let me give you that perspective. And that validation, that support, that additional data that we are blind to, look what a difference that made.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
It's very telling that she convinced his friends and his children that he was mentally ill and that he was unstable. Obviously, isolation is a textbook tactic for abusers. We know that. And using other people as pawns and manipulating the victim, these are hallmarks of narcissistic abuse. But that also speaks to the power of those relationships.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Yes, or to shore up her own position by making sure that everybody was on her side. But yeah, it's a good point. I guess the corollary to dig the well before you're thirsty is make sure no one drains your That's right.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Corollary? You go around saying corollary? Is that like concrete? I think so. I think that's the British way of saying it, but I'm- Corollary. I'm not on board with this. Corollary, bro. Corollary does sound better, but I decided to correct you even though I don't use that particular- Corollary. Jeez. Corollary. Spends one summer at a British law firm 20 years ago. Yeah.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Yeah, that's incredible. That's very powerful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
No, that's a subversive thing to put in a cartoon. It's hard to imagine them doing that today. Yeah, that's true. Did that short come from Disney or it's just like someone pirated Mickey Mouse? This is really interesting, so I'm just reading a bit more. The director of this short was a guy named Whitney Lee Savage, who apparently is the father of Adam Savage, who's been on the show.
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I know that there's a layer to Feedback Friday that is obviously entertaining. You know, there's the deuce cruise. We all love it. It's great. But beyond the WTF factor of the show, there's this community and there's this connection. There's this shared experience around these stories. And that is a huge part of what makes doing the show so rewarding for me anyway.
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I walked across Afghanistan just after 9-11, and it was an amazing time to walk across the country. It was the middle of the winter. I was walking with a giant dog, and the Taliban government had just fallen, but the new government hadn't emerged. And it changed my life. Really, what kept me alive and safe were the villages. I remember feeling for the first time so lucky to be with them.
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I was so tired. I'd been walking then for nearly 28 days without a break, living on bread. And I felt a kind of wonderful sense of brotherhood. It was a very humbling experience. I think the biggest lesson I took from the walk is about global poverty. I was staying with some of the very, very poorest people in the world.
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And the producer and head designer was a guy named Milton Glaser, and they produced it independently, and the short was not endorsed by the Walt Disney Company.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
And I was seeing a lot of really bad aid programs, really kind of crappy development programs.
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And a lot of these villages I went to had such a deep level of cynicism from the local villages about what on earth these foreigners thought they were doing, spending all this money and delivering basically no benefit to these villages, basically their phones or their bank accounts, which allows us now to deliver money directly to people's phones without going through governments or middle people.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Turns out if you give people cash, it's better than almost any other program for nutrition, for education, for health, for shelter. The truth is that we're not yet in a world in which it's realistic to expect people from Global North to pay every month to support the income of people in Global South.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
No, but how did they manage to do it? This is fascinating. They must have just made it on their own and released it secretly underground and Disney had no idea or couldn't control it. Yeah, the Disney Corporation today is so different, right? Like, they're very careful about what they put out.
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Dear Jordan and Gabe, 15 years ago, I moved back to the U.S. to live with my mother after separating from my husband while living abroad. At the time, my daughter was two and I needed support. I've been a full-time single mom since.
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Things were manageable until my older sister, her husband, and their child moved in with us eight years ago after selling their house despite having money from the sale. That brought our household to four adults and two young kids in a cramped three-bedroom, two-bathroom home.
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While living together, my mom had rotator cuff surgery, leaving me to care for both kids while also managing the household. One morning, my nephew repeatedly ignored me when called to breakfast. The situation escalated when he kicked my daughter in the chest, causing her to cry in pain. I spanked him once on his bottom, not hard, as a consequence.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
something my sister had previously told me I was allowed to do if necessary, and she wasn't around. He ran crying to his mother, who accused me of abusing him, after seeing a handprint where I spanked him. I explained what happened, but my sister threatened to call the police, and somehow convinced my mother, still groggy from pain medication,
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
that I had abused her child, even though my mother repeatedly said that he was being naughty. I was deeply hurt by the accusations, especially because I love my nephew, and I would have spanked my daughter had she done the same thing.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
The tension became unbearable, and I decided to move out with my daughter later that day. Weeks later, I attempted to mend things. Our mom was completely upset by the whole thing and asked me to, quote, bring, quote, peace to the family, unquote. I apologized to my sister and explained my actions. I also made it clear that being labeled a child abuser was unacceptable.
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I promised never to discipline or even hug my nephew again to avoid further conflict. My mother and brother-in-law were emotional during this conversation, but my sister remained unmoved. Ultimately, I distanced myself from family gatherings to avoid further accusations. Fast forward to today. My sister is now divorced from her husband, and she and her son are living with my mother.
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Recently, while my daughter was staying with my mom, she overheard my sister once again calling me a child abuser. this time claiming I also abused her emotionally and mentally. I thought this issue was behind us, but hearing this reopened old wounds. I've since decided to cut ties with my sister, even though it breaks my heart to lose a relationship with my nephew.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
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There is no truth to the claim that I've mentally or emotionally abused my sister. She often accuses anyone who disagrees with her of such behavior. She has a long history of falling out with people. She's been asked to leave churches, alienated her ex-husbands and their families, and is estranged from much of our extended family.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Her explanation is always that others are jealous of her because she's beautiful and skinny. She was a model and has recently started modeling again. I hate to use this term, but she's a textbook narcissist.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
What do you have to do to get kicked out of a church? Heckle the pastor during a sermon? I mean, you have to be pretty bad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Oh, man. So she goes on. There's more to unpack about my sister, including her divisive beliefs and history of conflict with others. Not a surprise. Growing up, we were very close, even into our 20s. Things started to change around the 2016 presidential election. I'm a Republican, but not a Trump supporter.
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Yeah, who didn't?
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
She, on the other hand, became a fervent Trump advocate to the point of calling him a messiah. She would dominate family gatherings with political talk, and despite my requests to avoid the topic, she insisted I should just not attend if I couldn't handle it.
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Yeah. We all go through the Zippo phase. You do. Okay.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Over time, she became deeply involved in conspiracy theories, particularly QAnon, donating money, putting stickers on her car, and consuming endless online content. This even influenced our mom, who occasionally calls me with paranoid concerns about power outages, food shortages, and martial law. It's clear that these ideas are coming from my sister.
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My older brother has also completely cut ties with her because he too finds her unbearable.
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1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
Another complicating factor is that my sister was a plaintiff in a high-profile sexual abuse case. She claims that she called me almost 20 years ago after the abuse, but I have no memory of this call. When I told her that, she accused me of sabotaging her case. My mom even asked me to lie under oath and say I did receive the call to keep the peace, but I refused.
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I had not considered that. I'm getting the sense, and our friend here did not suggest anything otherwise, right? I think this abuse probably happened.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
many victims and it was in the news and stuff. So I think this did happen. And so it's probably more likely that this and who knows what else happened to her in her life have led her to believe in stuff like this or played a role in it. Anyway, I now don't know how to reconcile my love for my nephew with the toxicity of my relationship with my sister.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1098: Sanctioned Spank Sparks Sibling Split | Feedback Friday
I feel devastated that she tells him I abused him and I've lost the ability to connect with him without fear of further accusations. I've made peace with the fact that my relationship with her is beyond repair. but it deeply hurts to lose my nephew in the process. Do you have any advice on how to navigate this situation? Signed, trying to be disarming after being accused of harming.
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But as it relates to this dilemma with his father specifically, these self-concepts are actually extremely relevant. My sense is that because he has such a low opinion of himself, he doesn't feel he can provide for his family the way he wants, not now or maybe not ever, which means that his father and the inheritance
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
really are his only hope, which makes the stakes of that relationship even higher, which makes this dilemma about whether to say something very intense. Does he bite the only hand that can feed him? Exactly. I also wonder if this conversation he wants to have with his dad if maybe that feels like his only hope for healing as well. I can't fix any of this trauma on my own. This is just how it is.
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But if I just give my dad a piece of my mind, that'll fix all of this. That'll make me less angry, less bitter, more confident, more authentic, because I'll finally be writing this wrong. Now, as we've been saying that might in some world be true, owning your story, telling someone how you feel. Yes. Like we keep saying undeniably powerful, but
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I strongly suspect that it will only be true up to a certain point because even in a world where his father did respond really well to this confrontation, it will only be one aspect of his healing. The real work is in sorting through all of these feelings on his own and mourning the childhood he had and taking back his power and hopefully creating a new narrative for himself.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So here too, I wonder if he might be pinning a lot of his hopes on the conversation with his dad. And maybe that's why it feels so urgent. And maybe that's why he's willing to risk literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to have this conversation. But if he saw that he could make progress in other ways on his own with other people, it's just a question.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Would he still feel as compelled to have this conversation with his dad? And if he decided not to, would he still feel as inauthentic and hopeless?
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The irony is, either way, he's giving his father a lot of power here.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Again, I want to be fair, his father does have that power to some degree, especially when it comes to the money. It's not that the money isn't real or it's only useful to the extent that our friend here believes it's useful. I don't think that's what we're saying.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
There is a lot on the line here, objectively speaking, but the belief that the money will relieve him of certain feelings or responsibilities, for example, the responsibility to address what he sees as his lack of ambition and confidence, or this fear he has of being unstable or unfulfilled, that is an assumption I would really investigate because that part he does have more control over.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
That's something I would love for him to work on his own before he outsources all of that to his father.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Yes. Or another way to put it is he's kind of sidestepping a lot of great territory around this decision that could put him in touch with his power.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And then seeing what the conversation brings up for him.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm the head of technology for a fast-growing business. Six months ago, I championed a vendor partnership that I genuinely believed was the right move. I invested deeply in the relationship, pushed hard for it internally, and gave this vendor the benefit of the doubt more than once.
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But recently, it's become clear that they misrepresented key elements of their offering, including system ownership and cost transparency. I now see that I placed the business in a position where our flexibility is limited, our costs are rising, and our long-term control over critical infrastructure is uncertain.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The hardest part is we might still need to stay with this vendor for the next three to five years. I know this is a commercial decision that involved multiple factors, but emotionally, it feels like I failed. I let my team and my company down.
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I feel shame and guilt, and I'm worried about how I can continue leading this project and staying positive for my team and my clients for the next few years without affecting my mental health.
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I'm normally proud of my work, but for the first time in my 30-year career, I dread project meetings and even coming into work, knowing that I have to deal with these people who strategically misdirected and ruined any trust I had in them.
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The CEO and the board are super supportive, and we've retrospectively analyzed all the business decisions that led to this and devised methods to prevent it from happening again. I love my job, I believe in the company, and I want to be the kind of leader who owns mistakes and grows from them. But when I look to the future, my stomach is tied in knots, having to recover from this mistake.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
How do I move forward from this? How can I stay engaged and effective when every day might remind me of where I got it wrong? Signed, keeping my head high and vying not to be mortified as this mistake multiplies.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I love that, Jordan. That combination of vulnerability and accountability is very powerful. Not a lot of leaders have the courage to do that.
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1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But whether you end up having this conversation or not, I would also keep an eye on the pieces of this that are yours to work on and nobody else's. Look, you might be the kind of person who does feel this outsized sense of responsibility. You might have a tendency to beat yourself up for things, very common tendencies, by the way, for great leaders.
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This is kind of a superpower in a way, but it can also become a fatal flaw. In which case, again, there might be some work for you to do in figuring out why these responses come naturally for you. You know, get to the roots of that. Decide just how much of this you should take on.
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Whether this guilt really does all fall on you, or whether it maybe should be distributed a little bit among your team, which it sounds like that's the case. And just how best to work through all of these feelings. There is a process here that is yours alone.
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Yeah, good point. I do get the sense that there's something else going on here besides I picked a vendor who ended up screwing us. Your bosses are saying, hey, it's OK, we've got you. And you're going, I don't know if I can keep showing up to work.
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Maybe it's hard to believe that your bosses really do forgive you, that they really do support you even after you made a mistake, which, again, all of you guys made. So it is an interesting question. Why is that? Is it hard to internalize the support of the people around you? Perhaps that would be interesting to get to the bottom of, too.
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You know, one very tactical thing he could do to show that he's really turning a corner is if they turn this mistake with this vendor into a kind of case study internally in the company, and maybe he writes it up as a white paper, he puts together a presentation or whatever. And he's like, look, here's what we went through with this vendor. Here's what they told us. Here's what we missed.
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Here's the mistake I made when I was in charge of this. And here's what we've learned since. And we now have this framework for assessing vendors that is designed to make sure that we never end up in a situation like this again. And he sends it around to everybody like, hey, look what I've learned. I want to make sure that nobody else in the company makes that same mistake.
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That would send a really great signal to everybody. I mean, he can't change the past at this point to your point, Jordan. He needs to make peace with that. But what he can do is, A, find meaning in it, and B, try to be of service to everybody else. If somebody on my team did that, I would be like, this guy's a keeper. This guy's a leader.
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This is exactly what you're supposed to do when you make a mistake. So maybe that's an idea you could play with.
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All right, what's next? Hello, magnificent duo. I'm 32 years old, based in Italy, and have been investing in the stock market since I was 23. My dollar cost averaging strategy has worked well over the years, helping me achieve financial stability, and now allowing me to purchase my second home, supported by a stable income from my nine to five and my investments. Wow, incredible.
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Hey, well done, man. A few years ago, in an effort to diversify my portfolio, I allocated funds to a couple of real estate crowdfunding platforms, including a specific one whose name, by the way, we're just going to leave out. And recently, I noticed that my five investments and properties on the platform have not paid out dividends for a long time.
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I wasn't overly concerned initially, as delays and project holds had occurred before on the other platform I've used. But upon further investigation, I discovered that this platform has completely ceased communication with investors. Before, each project detailed the investment, payment schedule, potential delays, and exit options. And customer service was accessible via email.
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Now, all of that has disappeared. I've tried to contact the platform through multiple channels, but have received no response whatsoever. Reading online, I found that many other investors are facing the same issue, some as far back as 2022. It appears the company is now insolvent. In addition to withholding dividends, they're not refunding invested capital.
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And several investors have reported unsuccessful withdrawal attempts, even for their non-invested funds. Practically speaking, the amount displayed on the accounts doesn't really exist. It is shocking. I've always considered myself a cautious and well-informed investor and... I take great pride in my financial journey, so I feel incredibly frustrated and dumb for not realizing all of this sooner.
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While the amount of my investment won't significantly impact me, I cannot accept the idea of leaving it in the hands of this company's shameful and dishonest CEO. What are my realistic options for recovering at least part of my investment, which is around 8,000 euros? Do you think there's any chance, however small, of retrieving part of my money?
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Are there any legitimate debt collection services I could use? And would there be any way to unite affected investors, given that we're spread across different countries? Signed, thought I was astute for the pursuit of this clever route. Now I'm trying to recover my loot. Is the answer a dispute? Or is this all just moot? Because this platform was, at its root, a total crapshoot.
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Yeah, I figured this guy lost like 10 grand. Maybe a few extra rhymes would lift his spirits. Yeah, yeah, that's what he needs. A poem and an attorney.
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Hello, Jordan and Gabe. My childhood was characterized by being smacked by my dad and being screamed at by my mom, who occasionally got in on the smacking action also. Very sorry to hear that. There were lots of good times with my two brothers of similar ages, but my memories are tainted by visions of two brothers cowering as the third took wax whilst crying their eyes out.
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Every Estonian listener right now is cringing in their car. Their ears just, yeah, ringing. What was it? Okay. That sounds like a Greek crouton or something.
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It's like a melting pot of so many different European languages.
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Hold up. That's John Malkovich from Rounders. Yeah.
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Straight up.
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But it's so bad and it's also so good at the same time. That's an incredible performance.
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Yeah. Higher dialect coach, Malkovich. What is the other thing he says in that movie that always makes me laugh? Oh, yeah. When Matt Damon goes all in on the pot or whatever, and he's like, very aggressive.
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I also love he wears like a red zip-up tracksuit in the movie. Yeah, it's so good.
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Yes. That part's pretty perfect. Anyway, sorry. That was amazing. Just got distracted by that Rounders quote.
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Aaron's other idea for you, you and other shareholders slash investors could look into bringing what's called a derivative action lawsuit or a class action lawsuit against the company. Now, a derivative action case, that's a lawsuit brought by a shareholder or sometimes a member of a company on behalf of the company, not on their own behalf.
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So basically, if executives have harmed the company through misconduct, a shareholder can step in and basically sue to force accountability. A class action lawsuit, as you probably know, that's when a small group of people sues on behalf of a larger group of people who all have similar problems with the same company.
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Now, again, Erin doesn't know Estonian law, so she wasn't sure whether these options are available. We did do a little homework here too, and it looks like Estonia does have these two options, but they are more limited and they're more structured compared to how it works here in the US.
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I'm surrounded by people who say things like, didn't do you any harm, but this did do me plenty of harm. I've been angry, bitter, and occasionally violent my whole life. I've been addicted to drink and drugs and sex over the years. I've trashed every relationship I've ever had.
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Aaron did say that it might be possible to bring a class action against this company in another country since you live in Italy, but probably only if investors from Italy were also harmed.
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And class action lawsuits, as we all know, they're usually pretty expensive. It's only worth doing if there are a substantial number of people harmed and there are definitely funds available to recover, which, based on what you've shared, not holding my breath there.
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So Aaron's take is that you probably don't want to go this route. This company seems to be misusing investor funds. So even if some of the money is left, there's probably not enough to make you guys whole and therefore not enough for an attorney to be willing to take the case.
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Now, about the idea to go with a debt collector, debt collectors usually buy a lot of accounts receivables from companies, usually for pennies on the dollar. And then they basically hound the people who owe to see what they can get. The debts are usually pretty old. They're harder to collect. Erin said that some law firms do debt collection work.
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So you could see if there's somebody who might be willing to put in some effort to get a response. But she's not sure whether a debt collector would be willing to purchase this particular obligation, given that it's just one from an individual. And there's probably not much more than that.
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I'm picturing a lot of red tracksuits.
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So Erin was pretty direct with you. She said that unfortunately, there just aren't a whole lot of good options here. She said if you were a friend of hers and you could afford it, which it does seem like you can, she would probably encourage you to just let this investment go.
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Sadly, it would probably cost more to shut this company down and protect any future investors than to try to recover your piece of the money. But I would definitely look into filing those complaints and try to get as many other people who have also been bilked out of their money to do the same. You might not recover your funds, but you can still try to hold this company accountable.
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When I read that hitting kids under five years old is linked to sexual dysfunction later in life, that made perfect sense too. I've never been sexually normal. I have very little real confidence. I just mask to cover up, and I would say, when it comes down to it, that I despise myself.
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You know, I'm just realizing that there's an interesting theme on today's episode. The guy we just heard from who hired that shady vendor and is struggling to go to work is feeling really wounded by that mistake. And I think our friend here is also feeling wounded. Like he said, he's so proud of himself. He considers himself a savvy investor. And then he goes through something like this.
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And I think it's in addition to the pain of losing the money, there's that sting of, am I really as smart as I thought I was? Am I really as good of an investor as I thought I was? And I think the same advice applies here, that the best thing you can do is when you take the L, try to learn from it and just apply that to everything else you do from now on. What else are you going to do?
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You can't change the past. You can't change this company. But I just think it's really interesting. Sometimes when you make a mistake, you can just sit with that mistake and it's just a mistake. It just hurts over and over again. But if you do something with it, then it starts to feel a lot different.
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Hello, Jordan and Gabe. My mom is 70 and lives alone. She's always been a fiercely independent person. She raised my sister and me alone from the ages of eight and five, respectively. And she's always lived in the same small town in rural Canada that she grew up in, like most of our family has. I now live with my husband in Florida.
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I don't get home as often as I used to, but I do visit one to two times a year, and I get her down here about the same. After COVID, though, we do see each other a little less often, maybe once a year, because it's expensive and I need to take a chunk of time off to make the expense worth it. Over the past few years, my mom has had some warning signs of possible memory loss.
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Thank you for writing in. I've been thinking about this for decades now, and I still cannot comprehend how the person a child should trust most in the world can hit them and think it's okay. This feeling became a thousand times stronger when I had my own child who has never had a hand laid on her in anger. I look at her and I wonder how on earth I could even consider causing her physical pain.
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She's also exhibited some behavioral changes, including avoidance of getting something taken care of, like her well water not working and living off of water bottles, a lack of awareness about how severe a situation is, like getting an oil spill in her basement from having backflow into her oil tank, or
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losing home insurance because of a forgotten payment, being oblivious, like having a flight delayed and not calling or texting to let me know that she would arrive another day, just to name a few. She's also had diagnosed seasonal affective disorder for years, as well as insomnia, and she's been on many medications for them for decades.
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These weird moments, or behaviors, seem fleeting and vague, so up until now my sister, who lives nearby, and I have been keeping an eye out. But recently, my sister called me frantic one night because my mom had miraculously been found driving her car in the wrong direction, about 40 minutes away from home.
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She's been driving at night and left my sister's house after dropping her off, but must have taken a wrong turn or two and not looked at signs. She actually almost hit another car turning on a narrow road. She can't tell us how she ended up there and doesn't seem phased by the fact that somebody had to drive her home.
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To be fair, these are back roads in the country with no streetlights in the winter and these signs could be obscured by snow banks. But I worry that this is the beginning of her decline and how to manage her if things change. She's not owning up to what happened, if she even acknowledges the issue at all. which is also concerning.
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I don't want my mom to lose her license, which gives her freedom, but I also don't want her to hurt others while driving. Also, government assistance and programs in our rural area are hard to come by. I can't financially support her or pay for a home, and she still has a mortgage to pay off. But she does have a job now, I can see her bank account, and she's doing well financially.
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But I live hundreds of miles from home and can't really watch her, and my sister has two young kids and a full-time job. I also don't know if I can push for her healthcare team or psychiatrist to re-evaluate her and her meds. Are there any legal ways I can keep her safe, like getting power of attorney or conservatorship?
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How much should I intervene here and put my foot down about certain things like driving? And what are the basic measures and best practices for caring for an aging parent in decline? Signed, trying to do my best as my mother sunsets.
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I'm so sick of hearing people say it was a different time then and other meaningless excuses.
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Then, recently, my dad shared a screenshot in my family group chat of a news report about whether hitting was okay, and wrote, I've never smacked my kids. I was dumbfounded. I asked for clarification, and he confirmed he couldn't remember ever smacking any of them.
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Yeah, I like that. All sound advice. Now, regarding the driving, Pam said that this is very concerning. And yeah, clearly we strongly agree. Pam said that driving is perhaps one of the most difficult issues for aging seniors and their families to deal with because, of course, giving up driving. is often the beginning of a loss of independence, so she really gets it.
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But you obviously don't want something to happen to your mom or something to happen to somebody else because of your mom, just because nobody wants to really take this issue on. So Pam did have a few great ideas here. First of all, I had never heard of this, but several of the larger auto insurance companies apparently have these senior driver evaluation programs.
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And apparently some healthcare systems with geriatric practices also offer a similar type of program. Now, these programs are independent and they basically assess a person's ability to drive safely by going out with them and observing them driving. And Pam said that sometimes the senior is more likely to listen to someone from one of these organizations
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then their child who's going, mom, no more driving for you. Sorry, you have to give it up.
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Also, when you tell her physician about what's been going on, they might go, okay, absolutely no more driving. You have to give up your driver's license, not safe. And if so, Pam's advice is just let the doctor be the bad guy and you and your sister enforce that decision.
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I could still hear his booming voice all those years ago screaming, move your hands, as my siblings and I tried to protect ourselves from the blows. Then we would limp off crying and be consoled by the others. My god, this is awful. I had tears of rage in my eyes as I realized that this fact was so unimportant to him, he doesn't even remember it.
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And then Pam threw out a bunch of other good ideas for aging parents. If your mom declines physically, you could get her a device to wear, you know, like one of those life alert products, something like that. If she falls, she just pushes a button and that'll call you and emergency services in one go. Kind of great.
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Just took me back to 1993 watching TV at home. 1987 or whatever. Was it earlier than that?
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And if your mom forgets to take her medication, Pam said that there are these automatic medication dispensers that'll contact you if her medication is not taken, or at least if it doesn't leave the dispenser, which is kind of amazing. I never heard of this. You can also ask her physician if they can tell from the exam whether it looks like she's been taking her medications consistently.
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And by the way, this is another reason that it's important to get a formal assessment by a doctor because that will help you know what she needs and it'll inform all of the planning for her future. I just want to quote Pam here. She said something really important. You're entering a phase of your mom's life that can sometimes be fraught with difficulty.
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So good luck and just keep your mom's best interests at heart. That will ensure that you're making the best decisions.
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Look ahead. Yeah, totally.
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Oh yeah, I saw this in our Slack. That was so funny.
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We should send that to the guy who said this clip. And what show is this again?
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That's just too distressing for him to live with.
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It's not that he doesn't remember. It might be that he remembers too well.
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Dear Jordan and Gabe, Two years ago, I went through the most traumatic experience I could imagine. My wife of 15 years cheated on me and left me for another man. I watched her fall in love with this guy right in front of my face, all while she blamed literally everything on me. She took no accountability for her actions. To say that I was devastated would be an understatement.
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Oh my god, my heart is racing hearing this. Oh my god. After a few minutes and further breaking down, I called a friend, gave him my pistol to hold on to, and went to visit my grandma four hours away, who, at the time, was dying of cancer.
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Since then, I have gone to so much therapy, made new friends, and gotten new hobbies, and my relationship with my kids is better than it's ever been. I've accepted that I'm not the terrible person my ex-wife made me out to be. I'm truly living the best life I've ever lived. Incredible.
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Yeah. On the one-year anniversary of the event, the friend who held my pistol for me, my brother, and his wife and I, the only people who know about the suicide attempt, all went out to dinner to celebrate my new life. It was really meaningful to me. Almost like a birthday party, but far more significant.
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Now we're approaching the two-year anniversary, and I'm wondering whether to celebrate. I don't want this to be an attention-seeking thing, that's not what I'm after. It's not a celebration of the terrible event, it's a celebration of the fact that I'm alive, people love me, I love my friends, and things have never been better.
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I don't want people to pity me for this experience, I don't need sympathy anymore, but I know that's how people tend to react to this kind of news. What do you think of celebrations like this? Should I expand this to a larger group and invite new friends I've made over the last two years and tell them how much they mean to me? Is this a weird thing to celebrate? Should I stop?
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Now I have a dilemma. I feel I can't have my dad leave this world thinking he never laid a hand on his children and being proud of that. I want to write him a letter outlining what I felt as a child and what it's done to me since. Every emotion, the fear, and the damage that followed.
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Also, is there any way for me to pivot my survival into some sort of suicide prevention slash awareness among my friends without it feeling like I'm drawing a lot of attention to myself? Thanks for going on this journey with me the last two years, gentlemen. Take care, and I'll keep tuning in every Friday. You've become something I look forward to each week.
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Signed, looking to embrace this complicated celebration.
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But my dad has a million pound business, zero debt, lots of land, and even in retirement has a few hundred grand a year rolling in. In an ideal world, I would tell him I don't want a penny from him. But unfortunately, I am one of life's talent voids, free of any useful skill or trade. I work hard, and always have, but I'll never be anything but a head-above-water type.
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Yeah, I do too. That's lovely. It's a good question which things we're supposed to really share out loud and with which people and why. I don't know if I have a strong opinion either way. This is totally up to you to decide. But sometimes we think we need to talk about certain things in order for them to be real, in order for people to feel them, for them to be alive. That's my tendency too.
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I can sometimes be very earnest and over-explain, but... As I get older, I'm also starting to appreciate that some really meaningful things can translate just by us being in touch with them inside of ourselves. And then they can live in whatever we do or say without necessarily talking about every single aspect of them.
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So for example, if you threw this party and you gave a toast and in your toast, you talked about how much your friends mean to you and how much you've evolved over the past two years. Maybe you even say, hey, I was in a really dark place not too long ago and things have turned around in this remarkable way and it's because of all of you and I just want to share that with you.
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If you're in touch with the intensity, the significance of that chapter, your friends are going to feel that. They're going to go, man, this guy has been through something. His heart has been cracked open. He's generous. He's kind. He's vulnerable. He's sharing this with us. They're going to be moved.
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So again, nothing wrong whatsoever with telling all of these people, this larger circle, exactly what you went through, if that feels right to you. Like the subtext of what I'm saying is not, you should be ashamed of the suicide attempt and you should not talk about it. That's not what I'm saying. It could be a very powerful moment, but I'm just giving you another possibility here.
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If you decide to keep certain details private, you can also trust that we don't always need to give voice to every single detail of an experience in order for our stories to make an impact.
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Well, I guess this kind of gets at another interesting question, which is what is his relationship with the story now? And where is it going? Because this is all still very new. He's coming up on just the second anniversary here. So the story he seems to be living with is I was in a really bad place. Now I'm not. Look how far I've come. And I want people to know that, which is beautiful.
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But now that he's on the other side of this thing, his relationship to these facts might be changing and it'll continue to change. So for example, this year, he might think of himself as a formerly suicidal person who survived and wants everyone to know. Next year or the year after, or I don't know, five years from now, he might not identify with these facts in the exact same way.
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The way that his path is unfolding, he might be more interested in how rich and full his life continues to be. and he might not feel the need to talk about the suicide attempt with newer people as much.
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Just the fact that he's made all of these new friends since this happened, in a big way, that was informed by the suicide attempt, but in another way, he formed those friendships as he was becoming a very different person.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So what I'm getting at is, it might be important for him that these people know what he went through, the person he was before they met, or he might want to just allow these new friends to know him as the person he is now. which he obviously feels is a much healthier and more authentic version of himself and that is equally part of his story. That's just as valid.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Okay, fair question. So maybe that's another thing to sit with. Would not telling your wider circle about the suicide attempt feel more like hiding from them, like depriving them of knowing something important about you? Or would it feel more like protecting something that's very personal and being thoughtful about whom you share it with? Again, that's only something you can answer.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
This would mean the difference between us buying our very own home one day and never having a home of our own. We've moved nine times in the last four years due to the UK housing crisis. My daughter deserves so much more than a loser for a dad. She has one hope of ever being left anything by her mom and me. And that's my dad. A home could be hers when we're gone.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But I think deep down, we know when we're being thoughtful and when we're hiding, just like we know when we're being vulnerable and when we're looking for attention.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
And there are lots of ways to pursue that mission. You could talk to your friends directly. You could go volunteer at a crisis hotline or a suicide hotline, which by the way, I did in high school and it was life-changing and I love it. And part of me even wants to go maybe volunteer again later in life. quite something.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You could, I don't know, work with a mental health nonprofit or a charity where you get to tell your story or work with people directly. You could write about this experience or speak about this experience, what you went through, what you learned. There are a lot of ways to put this experience to good use. My feeling is that your story would make a huge impact in any of these roles.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
You're so connected to the meaning of the last two years and what it actually requires to recover from stuff like this. So I do wonder if initiatives like the ones we just mentioned might help you create even more meaning out of this in addition to this party.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
My dad has threatened to write people out of his will before for far less than what I want to do. He takes any criticism of his parenting very badly. Like, he goes nuclear. Should I pull the pin on this grenade, say what I want to say, and almost guarantee that my inheritance gets split between my siblings and then I die in poverty?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Or should I keep my mouth shut and let my father swim in the undeserved glory of being the gentlest, kindest parent in history? Signed, write this unfettered letter standing up to my begetter? Or better to let the past settle so I don't end up a debtor?
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Oh, exactly. That show was genius. Yeah, it was genius. So good. It really was. That really captures it. The little Skittles bouncing on the floor really captures the stakes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
As the emotional skittles rattle across the floor.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
That was some of your finest work.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I hear that. This money is obviously very fraught for him. It represents his father's hard work and planning. Yes, maybe these emotional reparations you're talking about, but it also represents the cost of not listening to his inner voice. Oh man, I'm with you, Jordan.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It is hard to know what to do here because even if setting the record straight with his dad is the quote unquote right thing to do, and it's an interesting question how you define right in a situation like this, even if that's the morally correct thing to do, That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to lead to meaningful change, either on his dad's part or for himself.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I think it's highly unlikely that it's going to make his dad suddenly wake up and go, oh my God, I was telling myself a story. I did do all these awful things. I'm so sorry I didn't own up to it. Like, how can I make this right? I don't know.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It might be satisfying and it might be enlivening for our friend here to give his father a piece of his mind. I get that it's really hard to feel inauthentic, but also he doesn't know what this conversation would do for him. He might say these things to his father and find that a huge weight has been lifted. Some anger has been discharged. That can be very powerful.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
He might also say these things and find that he is still left with a lot of difficult feelings and wounds, and who knows, they might even feel worse if his dad doesn't respond the way he hopes.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
So, I don't know the answer, to be honest.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Dues hits person, person writes inbox, inbox goes to show. We catch dues. We're dues catchers. It's just who we are.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
I think we need to talk about another part of his story, and maybe that'll help answer the question, too. In his letter, he called himself one of life's talent voids, free of any useful skill or trade. He said that he works hard, always has, but he'll never be anything but a head above water type. And then later he said that his daughter, and this was really broke my heart.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
He said his daughter deserves so much more than a loser for a dad.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It's very sad. And it sounds like he's struggled a decent amount in his life. He said that they've moved a bunch because of the housing crisis. He's dealing with a lot of this internal stuff, the confidence stuff. All of this is, it's traumatizing to not feel like you can consistently keep a roof over your head. You can't always provide for your children the way you want to.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
The thing is, these beliefs he holds about himself, and maybe some of them are true for him to some degree. Maybe he doesn't at this moment have a ton of useful skills. Maybe he isn't always the most ambitious.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
But the belief that he's void of any talent, that he can't develop new skills, or that he's always going to be a certain kind of person, that he's always going to disappoint his daughter, whatever these feelings are, all of those thoughts must be informed by what his father did to him.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
It's just company policy.
The Jordan Harbinger Show
1148: Face Father's Fury or Fund Future Fortune? | Feedback Friday
Right. So for his own sake and for his daughter's sake, I would love for him to find a way to work through all of this, of course, because these difficult feelings he has, his addiction, his pattern of damaging relationships, the sexual dysfunction, all of that. is a lot to deal with, but it is not by any means fixed. He can work on this stuff with the right resources.