Don Wildman
Appearances
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Das ist alles, you know, FDR is working behind the scenes, of course, even with Congress about, you know, how do we get ready for this war that he sees as inevitable at this point. But it's going to get formalized in the spring of 1941 as the Lend-Lease Act, which is what we all know is the moment when it really tips towards us involving ourselves. Harry Hopkins was a big name here.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
I did a real rabbit hole dive on this guy. Yeah. Really interested in his story, because I'd heard it a lot, but I didn't know who he was. He's as remarkable as Roosevelt, even health problems. He was his personal envoy to Churchill. He comes over and sees the bombed cities. He sees the naval base at Orkney all bombed.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
He stays at Chequers, which is the home of the... Churchill treats him like royalty. Yeah, exactly. Er versteht, dass sie hier eine mordliche Gefahr befinden. Dan, mach ein bisschen historische Nachricht. Glaubst du, dass die FDR die Möglichkeit hat, mit Hitler zu handeln? Ich meine, wir wissen, wie Churchill sich fühlt, aber was ist mit der FDR?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Yeah, over 30 billion dollars worth of American goods are lent over and galvanized this war effort. What does FDR think of Churchill, though? I mean, they had their suspicions that this guy was not all there. I mean, he was old and he had a very indulgent personality, you know, likes to drink and likes to party.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
They are not best friends. It's really Churchill coming to FDR in the way that he, there's almost a, I don't know, is the word unctuous correct? I mean, he steps into this world and says, I'm here now.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Yeah. I mean, his, FDR's discomfort with imperialism We'll add to the story between the three of them when Stalin comes into the picture. I mean, he really favors Stalin over Churchill in terms of, you know, what's the world going to be like? Because it's not going to be with empire. They're dismantling this as they speak. When did they first meet face to face? August 1941, right?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
It's after Pearl Harbor, now we're in December 1941, that Churchill rushes to Washington. Obviously, critical moment here. This is the moment when Churchill knows he's got America with him fully.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Greetings all, welcome to American History Hit. I'm Don Wildman. The superlatives used to describe the British leader Winston Churchill, indomitable, resolute, tenacious, defender of the empire, are often followed by disparaging ones, arrogant, imperious, warmonger, autocrat. Es ist ein regelmäßiger Fassad der großen Figuren der Geschichte, zwei Seiten der selben Karte.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Right, and that plays out in FDR's messaging as well down the years. I mean, he articulates that vision. We will first defeat Germany and then we will defeat Japan.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
As far as, you know, I was raised by a guy who signed up, you know, a month after Pearl Harbor. They saw it as the totality of Germany, you know, the Axis powers. Were they sold that bill of goods? I'm not sure. But it certainly was perceived by my father as a package deal. And so it made sense to them. Also, you have to remember, America was very Eurocentric in those days.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
I mean, we were very much focused on what Europe was doing. And the Blitz was a terror. That whole period, that's why I went through those events of 1940, late 1940, are very important in shaping America's view of how this war is prioritized and fought.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Never mind, there's an evolution to the Pacific War, of course, that has to do with island hopping, which just takes a long time and is a very strange and remote world out there. And so Americans are much more... Er lebt in der White House, wie du sagst, drei Wochen in der White House. Das ist ein sehr seltsamer Teil der Geschichte. Churchill bewegt sich wie ein Hausgäste.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Er lebt im Blair-Haus. Ich kenne das sehr gut. Er lebte auf der Straße, was wirklich interessant ist. Es ist noch da, das Blair-Haus, das immer diplomatische Gäste sind. Aber er machte sich sehr, sehr komfortabel in der White House. Es gibt einen berühmten kleinen Episode. Ja, das ist mein besten Inventar. Das ist sehr gut.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Ja, naja, das ist, wo sie die innerliche Sicht auf diesen Mann bekommen, mit dem sie jetzt, weißt du, mit dem sie auf die Matte gehen. Es ist so. Aber sie machen Strategien, natürlich. Es ist ein riesiges Armament, die sich planen. Schreckliche Anzahl von Tanks und Flugzeugen.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Aber Churchill, der mit Welteventen intersektiert war, als ob Destinys Nummer sein musste, benötigte diese kontradiktorischen Träte, sicherlich als die Zweite Weltkrieg unvermeidbar wurde. Ohne Churchill gibt es keine Antwort auf Hitler. Die Briten verabschieden sich und kämpfen nicht. Without Churchill, a reluctant US is not drawn into the conflict.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Es wurde agreed that the British and American forces would always be, this is very important, under one supreme commander, a now tradition that continues to this day with NATO. Talk to me about that. That had to have been weird for the British military.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
A special relationship, that's the term and it really is born of many things, but this relationship between these two men is fundamental. Between 1941 and FDR's death in 1945, these two guys would spend a total of 113 days together. That's a lot for these two political leaders in the middle of an incredible crisis, investing a lot of time and energy into this personal relationship. It's amazing.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
It was Churchill's special relationship with the equally imperious Franklin Roosevelt that forged the alliance that finally dismantled the German war machine. And 80 years on, we would not be living in the free world we enjoy today without it. Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt are still the rulers, against which all leaders in crisis are measured.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Yeah. Nine conferences. They were in nine conferences together.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
But their relationship, their personal relationship really does add to the strategy, you know, the strategic planning behind this war in terms of, you know, when we're going to do D-Day. We wanted to go right on with D-Day. Let's just go into France. It was Churchill holding back from this that really stayed us off until 1944, right?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Ja, es war die Teheran-Konferenz. Jemand, der sich nicht mit der Konferenz interessiert, weiß, dass es eine ganze Strecke dieser Konferenzen gibt, in denen wir von der Planung der Krieg zu der Planung der Nachfolge der Krieg gehen. Aber im November, Dezember 1943 ist die Teheran-Konferenz. In dieser Zeit hat die Dynamik eine große Veränderung.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Ich meine, du hast Stalin, jeder weiß, dass die Sowjets diese Krieg gegen Deutschland gewinnen werden. Vielen Dank.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
There's a new limited series on Netflix these days that examines the mercurial and dynamic Winston Churchill, and it features prominently the voice of our guest today, a dynamic man himself, who also happens to have founded the streamer upon which this podcast is carried. He is the host of Dan Snow's History Hit and founder of HistoryHit.com. Dan Snow, welcome to American History Hit.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
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American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
It's great to be here. Happy to have you. No disparaging descriptors for you. We've done a number of interviews in the past on this podcast. People can go right back to the beginning and find them. But also recently we've been doing a lot on FDR. So this is about, we're right in the pocket of what we've been doing a lot of lately.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
I invite listeners to track back to episode 243, FDR and the New Deal. But today we're lucky to have Dan, a living Englishman, to tell us about Winston Churchill in World War II. Take us back, Dan, if you will, to the midsummer months of 1940. France has surrendered. The Dutch fell a month earlier. Now it's Great Britain, alone against the Nazis. Grim days. How have events gone so badly?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Well, this is the time period that we're talking about, the darkest hour, the famous speech he makes in the fall. How does Churchill view America during all this? How does that sort of loom for him?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Isolationism is the dominant opinion among Americans. Gallup poll taken in 1940 says 93% of Americans opposed declaring war on Germany, which is amazing when we look back on it. Er erzählt mir über seine erste Reise in die Vereinigten Staaten. Er wird als Premierminister, wie Sie sagen, Neville Chamberlain, am 10. Mai 1940. Am 15. Mai kabelt er die FDR.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Am selben Tag hört er von dem französischen Premierminister, Renaud, wir werden gewonnen. Was sagt er in diesen ersten Kommunikationen?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
You mentioned his ties to America and his familiarity with the culture. How familiar is he with and does he sympathize with Roosevelt's situation in terms of the isolationists? Is he aware of this tenuous position Roosevelt is in?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
December 24th, 1943. Once more, we find President Franklin D. Roosevelt seated at his microphone. As we heard last week, the President had been meeting with Allied leaders across Europe and beyond. Among them was British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, his steadfast partner in the war effort. Churchill hatte vor sechs Tagen im Dezember eine Fieber.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Right. I mean, you're touching on the very magical chemistry of this man. Same went for FDR. But they both have resumes that are very unique in that they have, in effect, fought wars and they've been ministers of war. In Churchill's case, he actually went to war in the Boer War and has a very famous hero from that time period.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
But they're also playing this big stage of PR, which both these guys are amazing at. I would say Churchill even more so than Roosevelt. And that's the amazing story behind these guys, that they have to walk both these things. Churchill was a genius of media, you know, and a fierce, amazing writer. You know, he writes tons of stuff after the war, looking back at it.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
He'd been a journalist before that. So they walk both lines, both of these guys. It's really interesting.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
You mentioned this before, I just want to circle back. Why couldn't Britain take on Germany itself? I mean, it's a major industrial power at this time, large population. Couldn't they have beaten Germany?
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
It really is important to recognize 1940. Americans don't think of this. For us, usually, World War II begins on December 7, 1941, when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor. But the fact is, these events that happened 1939 until 1941 had a lot to do with Churchill and Roosevelt talking to each other and developing these programs that end up in Lend-Lease and so forth. Und das ist, wo wir hinkehren.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Aber du musst verstehen, in der britischen Welt, du sprichst über die Überzeugung, dass Deutschland hatte, dass sie sie invadieren könnten, so wie sie Frankreich und Deutschland und Holland und den Rest von ihnen hatten. Sie würden einfach in England gehen. Aber am 15. September, was der Krieg der Briten am Tag ist, finden sie heraus, dass das nicht möglich sein wird durch ihre Luftwaffe.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Aber die Konferenzen haben sich geplant und waren ein Erfolg. Die besondere Beziehung zwischen Roosevelt und Churchill, die in der Kriegsrunde geformt wurde, wurde wiedereröffnet. Sie setzten den Stand für ihre fortschrittliche Zusammenarbeit in der Kampf gegen die Tyrannie.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Also beginnen sie plötzlich den Blitz. Und der Blitz geht für 52 Tage weiter. This is the fall of 1940. I'm reviewing all of this to tell you that there's this enormous momentum to Winston Churchill that he's bringing to FDR that the American people are not really aware of. They see it in the news, but we don't have that kind of coverage that we, you know, Edward R. Murrow ends up going over.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
So that's the first time we're in London. in effect on the radio. But all of these events are really important to understand what's about to happen in person in the White House as Churchill begins to come. There was a letter on December 8th, 1940, this was all to lead up to this question, that he says was the most important he ever wrote. I'm going to just quote what Churchill writes to FDR.
American History Hit
FDR & Churchill
Finally, I need to discuss money. The more weapons and ships you send us, the faster our money is spent. We've already spent a lot so far. The moment approaches when we shall no longer be able to pay cash for shipping and other supplies. This letter involves what issue exactly for Churchill?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Ich weiß nicht, ob sie das erwartet hätten, so blutig. Also Februar 16, 17, 1945, das ist, als der Führungssport beginnt. Das ist, als diese Schiffsschiffe aufsteigen und anfangen, dafür zu gehen. Wie viele Tage tun sie das letztendlich?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
It's the US Fifth Fleet that comes down. It's a really fascinating episode people don't know much about. The first thing that happens really in the battle for Iwo Jima is actually an attack on the Japanese home islands, on Tokyo, right? There is a part of the fleet or a fleet is up there and they actually launch the first attack on Tokyo itself. This is the fire bombing that happens.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Danach werden die selben Männer die Szene für einen anderen Schuss restagen, dieses Mal mit einer größeren Flagge. Es ist ein Wassermoment, eine ikonische Geschichte durch die Kamera. Aber es sind noch 30 Tage vor diesem gefährlichen Angriff auf Iwo Jima. Am Ende werden drei der fotografierten Männer tot. Hello there, great to have you listening.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Tell me about that episode. How long does that last and why is it happening? Well, it's happening partially to keep the Japanese's head down, right?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Mhm. Erst Wave of Attack, Februar 19, 1945, they land on the southwestern coast. Tell me what that was like for them when they caught on shore. The general idea I've learned from the movies, thank you Clint Eastwood, the Japanese were hunkering down, they were taking, they sort of moved themselves to Mount Suribachi and they were going to hunker down until the right moment came.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
I did a show years ago in Okinawa, a history show, and it was extraordinary how deep those tunnels are, how solid in rock they are. They had a long time to prepare this whole infrastructure for themselves and they did a great job at it. Therefore, you know, they weren't easily affected by firepower, as you say.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
This is American History Hit and I'm your host, Don Wildman. Eighty years ago, in February 1945, one of the most torturous battles of the war in the Pacific was undertaken. Die US-Force landete auf den Schoßen eines kleinen, vulkanisch geformten Islands, mehr als 6.000 Meilen von den USA, aber nur 760 Meilen von Japan.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Just a last note on the beaches, the volcanic sand is different than sand we know, you know, usually the silicate sand. The black volcanic sand doesn't behave the same way, so they get bogged down.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
I mean, it is a terrible place to be a foot soldier. Tell me about the Marine Commander Howland Mad Smith.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Es ist ein wirklich interessantes Dilemma, ist es nicht? Weil du diese Kommandstruktur hast, die wirklich, wie du sagst, aus der Weltkriegszeit ausgeboren ist. Und das war die Zeit der Artillerie.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Das wurde diese ganze Strategie, wie man eine Kriegspflicht kämpfen kann und wie man über einen Kriegsfeld fliegt, aus den Trennungen in diesen Tagen, wurde von der Eröffnung der Artilleriewahrzeuge erschaffen. send up a sheet of fire and then the men follow and then do the same and you sort of move across that way.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Add to this, A, it's in the middle of the ocean, so you have to move your artillery on a battleship and you have this whole other dynamic, not to mention command structure, as we already mentioned. It's a whole different kind of conversation as to how this is going to happen.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Iwo Jima wäre einer der letzten Steppensteine in der Insel-Hopping-Strategie, die die amerikanische Kommande vor zwei Jahren vorgelegt hat.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
It's a really interesting subplot of those we don't have time for, but it was the subplot of the entire Pacific War that people don't really consider too much about. Iwo Jima defended by 21,000 Japanese soldiers. Had they been there the whole time? Like, I've always wondered about these island fortresses.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Were these Japanese soldiers just brought in for this battle or had they been there for months and years before?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
By leapfrogging Japanese occupied islands, which had been heavily fortified, and instead concentrating on capturing more lightly defended ones, the US could advance more steadily across the Pacific, avoiding and isolating Japanese strongholds, and then starving them of supplies.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
We shall defend this place with all our strength to the end. We shall fling ourselves against the enemy tanks, clutching explosives to destroy them. So, this was a sheet of paper, printed and passed out. They had to memorize this. Das wurde in ihrem gesamten Verhalten gebacken, bevor dieser Kampf beginnt.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Eventually, so went the strategy, the Americans would occupy islands close enough to Japan to support a full-scale invasion, which until mid-1945 was still assumed to be inevitable, the only means to achieve complete victory. But some considered Iwo Jima a target without enough strategic value to justify the tremendous cost of American lives. The Japanese were dug in.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
So Tim, tell me how this campaign unfolds over a month long period of time, because they basically have to extract these guys from the tunnels, you know, and go in and get them and use flamethrowers on the tanks and so forth. Tell me about the general strategy to find these guys and kill them.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
American forces would be attacking soldiers fighting from tunnels and bunkers. In so many ways, Iwo Jima would be a preview of the horrors to come on Okinawa later that spring. Here to explain the rationale behind Iwo Jima and how the battle unfolded is naval historian Timothy Heck. Timothy is an artillery officer in the U.S.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Das ist das Newsreel-Footage, das wir von den letzten Inseln sehen, die wir genommen haben. Ich meine, sie mussten Taktiken adaptieren zu diesen unglaublichen Infrastrukturen, die gebaut wurden. Sprechen wir über die Navajo Code Talkers. War das das erste Mal, dass sie auf Iwo Jima benutzt wurden?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Marine Corps Reserve and an accomplished writer who has produced two books on amphibious warfare. Greetings, Timothy Heck. Boy, Iwo Jima is in your wheelhouse.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
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American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Sie werden hier offiziell ausgesprochen. Okay, die Battle of Iwo Jima kommt nur vier Monate vor VE-Tag. Ich möchte das nur in Kontext für den Publikum stellen. We're at the end of the European war. I mean, V-Day is May 8th, 1945. Here in the Pacific, it seems the end is in sight as well. The U.S. has won back the Philippines, Palau, the Marshall Islands. We own the South Pacific at this point.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
And it's really an impossible situation for Japan. Why are they holding out this long and what is their strategy? Das zu halten, ist eine große Frage.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
It's interesting and speculative to compare, but, you know, World War II battles and what happened on those battlefields compared to today, you know, and the way mechanized warfare has evolved, it's apples and oranges in so many ways, isn't it? It is and it isn't, right?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Timothy Heck ist ein erfolgreicher Kriegshistoriker, auch ein Artillerieoffizier in der US-Marine-Korps-Reserve. Er hat mehrere Bücher über Amphibious Warfare produziert. Tim, vielen Dank. Vielen Dank, Don. Habe einen guten Tag.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Es ist Februar 23, 1945. Associated Press Fotograf Joe Rosenthal hiked to the peak of Mount Suribachi on Iwo Jima. At 554 feet, it is the highest point on this island 750 watery miles from the shores of mainland Japan. Durch tiefen, vulkanischen Teufel, hört Rosenthal den ungewöhnlichen, unbekannten Schrecken von den Feuertruppen.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Das ist so wichtig, um aus diesem Punkt zu kommen, weil wirklich die, die, die Impression ist, sicherlich aus den Filmen, dass das nur ein paar Soldaten auf ein paar Inseln sind und wir nur nach Japan fliegen, aber in der Tat, Japan hat das seit Jahrhunderten gemacht, sie waren eine sehr, sehr gut gebaut, große militärische Maschine und viel davon war noch in den Hohen Inseln.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Ich meine, sie waren bereit, diesen Ort zu verteidigen. Before and during this war, I mean, it was a big part of their strategy. But for the US, why Iwo Jima? What was important about this particular place?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Okay. So they already, they've already done the groundwork, so to speak. Let's talk about the pork chop shape of this island is basically, it's got a huge volcano, as all those islands do out there. That's how they were created. And then there's a lot of flatness beyond that. And that's really useful for the purpose of landing big planes on it.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
I mean, this is generally speaking, just compressing the distance from the islands of the home islands all the way across. But it's also kind of strategic about how they measure from each other. Okinawa ist nicht zu weit weg und das wird der nächste sein. Also setzen sie immer noch diese Basis.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Aber ich glaube, das war der, ich habe in der Eröffnung die Fragen, die Gedanken über diese Strategie, weil Okinawa so viel für die Home Islands passiert, dass es so viel für die Home Islands passiert, dass es so viel für die Home Islands passiert, dass es so viel für die Home Islands passiert, dass es so viel für die Home Islands passiert. Es gab.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Und ich bewege mich in diesem Klappern-Pattern. Hier ist die Strategie des Eilendrückens so aufwändig in dieser Geschichte, aber ich habe es gerade wiederholt, als ich alles über diese Vorbereitung lesen musste. Und es war eine ziemlich ungewöhnliche Pläne. Es war eine sehr, sehr klare Idee, die großen Eilenden zu verlassen, die wirklich gut verteidigt wurden.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Es beginnt mit der New Guinea und Papua New Guinea und all das da unten. Und es wird eine sehr klare Art, sich über den Pazifik zu bewegen. We should mention also that part of the strategy is also to protect the flank of all this attack that will go on, because they do have these airfields, so they can launch off things to go after our planes and so forth in this attack.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Er ist auf hohem Wettbewerb für Landmine, als er die verletzten Angriffspositionen auf dem Weg übernimmt. Er folgt einem kleinen Gruppe US-Marine vor ihm. Though Rosenthal may not realize it now, this is a once-in-a-lifetime photographic opportunity. The soldiers are carrying an American flag to the heights of Suribachi, and Rosenthal intends to capture it all on film.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
The whole thing is called Operation Detachment. Die Erzeugung von Iwo Jima und wie du sagst, eventuell drei Hauptflugzeuge dort. Das würde dann die Invasion der japanischen Inseln ermöglichen, die wir in einem vorherigen Episode erwähnt haben, dass ich wirklich Menschen ermutigt habe, zu hören, über die Doolittle-Invasion, was ein wirklich faszinierendes Anfangsevent ist.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
Ich meine, Jahre vor dem, was wir heute sprechen, aber es ist wirklich alle Teil der gleichen Denkweise. Aber es ist auch wirklich interessant, was zwischen Nimitz und MacArthur passiert. Du weißt, diese ganze Idee des zweifachigen Ansatzes, das jetzt unifiziert wird. Iwo Jima markiert das, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
The eventual victory belies all the struggle internally that was happening, you know, among the command, especially famously between MacArthur and Nimitz, who was Navy versus Army. In there you have the Marines, of course, who are going to be the ones landing on those shores. They're not even consulted in this situation, are they?
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
At the top, the photographer composes his frame. Six men throw their combined weight into lifting the flagpole upright upon the jagged ground. None of the soldiers' faces are visible, but that doesn't matter. Indeed, it's the point. Der Schuss symbolisiert den selbstlosen Geist, der für Krieg und Kampf benötigt wird.
American History Hit
Battle of Iwo Jima
How anybody emerged from this with any nights of sleep amazes me. There is going to be 70,000 Marines landed on the shores of Iwo Jima. 70,000 on this tiny island. How many Japanese are they going to be fighting against? Do they know when they're coming? They've got a pretty good idea, right?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
By golly, that's me, Truman reportedly said, hearing his name called out on the convention floor. A minute earlier, he had been standing in a concession line buying a hot dog.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Ich meine, es ist wirklich fair zu sagen, dass in meiner Meinung Truman der erste moderne US-Präsident der Zeit ist. because he really does have to turn the wheel and change direction completely on major issues that have been taken for granted, for better or worse, by many Americans.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
You mentioned already something I want to say before we get into the heavy-duty international stuff, obviously in the summer. The reconversion is the term that I wasn't even familiar with before getting ready for this. Reconverting the economy from war to peacetime is the whole process of sort of reabsorbing all these soldiers who are coming home.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Ja, und die Inflation ist ein riesiges Problem. Ich meine, es steigen die Preise überall. Er kreiert das, was die Fair Deal heißt. Ich meine, er ist ein solcher Neudealer. Er trägt die gleiche Agenda wie sein Vorgänger, aber er übernimmt es als das, was die Fair Deal heißt. Was war das generell, was sich verändert hat?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
If you want to understand the stability of the US governance on the federal level, it really is a one hand to the next from the FDR to Truman to even Eisenhower straight through to LBJ with Kennedy in there. It's amazing. In July, Truman is now the third of the big three. He meets at Potsdam, as we've mentioned, in Germany with Stalin and Churchill.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Churchill is then replaced by Attlee halfway through. And this is all about finalizing the terms of the close of World War II, in particular the fate of Poland. Everything was really about Poland to start with, wasn't it?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Und dieser Fehler, diese Wahlen zu schaffen, die Selbstdeterminierung von Polen, ist wirklich der erste Moment für Truman über den Kolden Krieg, ist es nicht? Er erkennt, mit wem er handelt, und es wird kein Kompromiss sein.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Maybe it's his logistical mindset, the mind of an artillery man, strategizing the future and how far his firing will go. He is such a methodical guy, Harry Truman. You can kind of backtrack hindsight and see where all of these big themes come from. And then they sort of move forward. I guess that's true of most presidencies, but especially so with Truman.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Vielen Dank.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Let's talk about that. In August comes, of course, the fateful decision to use the atomic bomb to end the war with Japan. Referring listeners to our past episode number 99, entitled Oppenheimer, What if America never dropped the atomic bomb? And our first episode of the entire series in September 22 was the atomic bomb in the secret city. There's a lot to talk about here, of course.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
But as far as Truman is concerned, what is his basic reasoning? Haben wir alles gelernt, was wir wissen werden, warum er die Waffe benutzt hat?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
It was my father's favorite lesson to me. He was in the Philippines waiting for that attack on the home islands. And he said, you wouldn't be here without Harry Truman. That was what he always talked it up to, whether that was correct or not. That was my dad's version of things.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Er schreibt in seinem Journal, das ist ein Quote aus den Potsdamer Zeiten, dass wir die schlimmste Bombe in der Geschichte der Welt entdeckt haben. Es kann sein, dass die Feuerdestruktion in der Euphrates-Wall-Ära nach Noah und seinem faszinierenden Arsch propheziert wurde. Er war wissenswert, wie groß das war, sicher militärisch, aber auch wissenschaftlich, glaube ich, oder?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Hallo alle, willkommen zu American History Hit. Ich bin Don Wildman. Harry S. Truman arbeitete als Präsident von April 12, 1945 bis Januar 20, 1953. Acht Jahre, die die Post-World War II-Agenda für die Vereinigten Staaten und für die kommende Cold War einstellen würden.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Wie vorhin erwähnt, ist es nützlich, dass die Präsidentschaft von Truman in zwei Teilen stattfindet. Offensichtlich definiert von seiner Wahl im Jahr 1948. Vor diesem Jahr steigt er in die Rolle. Aber auch vor diesem Jahr, im Mai 1948, gibt es die Eröffnung von Israel, die, ich darf sagen, die meisten Amerikaner vergessen, auf Harry Trumans Wagen war. All das ist passiert.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Und er war ein großer Advokat von Israel. Er hat sie 11 Minuten nach der Eröffnung der Nation erkannt, gegen die Wünsche seiner nahesten Aide.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Der Monat, in dem Truman mit dem FDR erfolgreich war, April 1945, wurde Mussolini in einem italienischen Dorf getötet und Hitler verurteilte sich in seinem Berlin-Bunker. Drei Monate später wurde die erste atomische Bombe erfolgreich im Neue-Mexiko-Desert getestet.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Es spart sofort eine Krieg mit den Arabern. Ich meine, es ist eine unglaublich vertraute Entscheidung. Richtig, am nächsten Tag, ja. Er hat es nicht verraten, in der Lage dieser Krieg?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Es wäre Truman, der die furchtbare Entscheidung gemacht hat, sie zu verwandeln, in die Nuklear-Welt zu schlagen, als die Iron Curtain über die oberste Europa des Baltischen Sees nach der Adriatik herunterging. Hier zu Hause fand der moderne Zivilrechts-Movement Trägung gegenüber der südlichen Segregation und racialen Gewalt.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Not too long after, June 1948, the Berlin Airlift begins. Now, understand this is to anyone who's not familiar, Berlin is actually surprisingly in East Germany. So when the divide happens as a result of various circumstances, West Berlin, which we're taking care of, is in the middle of East Germany. So at that point, Stalin wants to sort of take over West Berlin.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Truman stand up to this and begins what's called the Berlin Airlift, which just goes on for a very long time, more than a year from June 48 to September 49. They do 277,000 flights into Tempelhof Airport, making it forever a shrine of this Western rescue effort. It's an incredibly interesting moment that Harris Truman really is the architect of, isn't he?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Und in amerikanischen Häusern überall brachte die TV-Welt Programme in die Wohnzimmer, wie die Ed Sullivan Show und I Love Lucy. Singin' in the Rain machte Spaß mit den Talkies, während Orwells 1984 eine dystopische Zukunft bemerkte und Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man 16 Wochen auf den Bestsellerlisten verbrachte.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
It defines that the overall Cold War mission of the West, and certainly the US, to contain and address Soviet expansion becomes the cause for decades to come. It starts really with the Berlin Airlift.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Es wird das Anfang der Truman-Doktrin werden, um die Domino-Theorie auszuschließen. Für mich ist es so interessant, Harry Trumans Präsidenten zu sehen, weil alles so gepackt ist, so viel passiert. Ich meine, wir sind noch nicht mal zu seinem gewählten Termin. Und all diese unglaublichen Dinge sind passiert.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Wenn nicht für jemanden wie diesen Mann, der in den tiefen Ende des Pooles springen könnte und einfach schwimmen würde, Es ist schwer zu glauben, dass es so eine erfolgreiche Einführung des amerikanischen Jahrhunderts sein würde.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Das ist der generelle Kontext für eine Präsidentschaft, die wir heute diskutieren werden, in der Firma von Mark Adams, der Direktor des Harry S. Truman-Libraries und Museums in Independence, Missouri. Willkommen, Mark, zu American History Hit. Schön, dich zu haben. Danke, Don.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Vielen Dank.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Oh, that's a fantastic place. I did an interview with Harry Truman's grandson there not too many years ago. So let's begin at the beginning, the famously humble beginnings of Harry S. Truman. You couldn't find a more complete antithesis to the aristocratic upbringing of, say, Franklin Roosevelt. Truman was reared on a Missouri farm, or a couple of them, born in Lahar, Missouri.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
,,,, , , , , , , , ,, P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a P a Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Thanks so much.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
The Trumans eventually settled in Independence, where you are today. Farming is a life he doesn't particularly like, but he works for the family farm until he's in his 30s. By the way, what does the S stand for?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
There are an awful lot of iconic photographs taken of Harry S. Truman. The man was unusually photogenic, with a flair for the dramatic. Here's one taken in July 1945. Truman sitting confidently in a wicker chair with Churchill and Stalin by his side. All three men at the Potsdam Conference, poised at the brink of the Cold War.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Ich sehe. The family finances are as rocky as the fields they plow. This prevents Truman from the education he dearly wanted. And I just want to underscore a fact I just blew past there. He worked on this farm until he was in his 30s. A man who will be president just a few decades later. It's amazing. Let's talk about the early years of Harry's education and so forth.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
He had wanted to go to West Point, but couldn't because of poor eyesight.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
That's right.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Interessant. Er wurde ein sehr talentierter Artillerie-Mann in der Infanterie und servierte in Frankreich mit viel Distinktion. Es ist eine Erfahrung da, die ihn wirklich verändert, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
He comes under intense fire. I mean, this man really did see combat several times in very famous battles there. You can't help but wonder how much that will come into play later on when he makes certain other decisions in his life. When he returns to the States, he is in Kansas City with big ideas of not returning to farming.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
This is a guy now in his 30s at this point, starts a store, a haberdashery with an army buddy, which does well at first and then ultimately fails because of the economy, right?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Wie kommt er endlich in die Politik?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Er sieht nicht wirklich eine große Zukunft für sich. Das ist so ironisch.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Ja, 1934, ich skippe jetzt etwa eine Dekade, er spielt für einen Senator. Und das ist aus der gleichen demokratischen Maschinerie, die von Tom Pendergrass gespielt wurde. Er gewinnt, aber er würde ohne Pendergrass nicht da sein, würde er?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Hier ist Truman, auch auf seinem Oval Office-Desk, mit dem Namenblatt, der berühmt sagt, dass der Buck hier aufhört. Und dann dieser, mit dem Lied, Dewey verliert Truman. Klassiker. Aber ein weniger bekanntes Bild ist mein Lieblingsbild. Es kommt aus der demokratischen Nationalkonvention im Chicago-Sommer von 1944.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Das wird später auf der Straße für ihn ein bisschen kontrovers werden. In 1944, mehr als halbwegs durch seinen zweiten senatorialen Termin, wird er nominiert, Henry Wallace als Vizepräsident von Roosevelt zu ersetzen. 1944, wir sind in der Mitte der 2. Weltkriege. Wir sind durch die Depression gekommen. Das ist ein enormer Teil der Geschichte, die Truman durchgekommen ist.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Wie wurde er für diese Position entschieden? Ich meine, Wallace, ich weiß, war eine gewaltige Figur.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Eines der Aspekte dieser Geschichte, das nie die Aufmerksamkeit bekommt, ist, wie viel die Leute wussten, dass die FDR wirklich tot ist. Ich meine, er sah aus wie ein Mann auf der Ecke. Wäre Truman und sein Volk darüber gewusst, hätte sie es erwartet, das zu passieren?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Ja, nur der Grundsatz hätte viel gesagt, glaube ich. Und Truman hätte deshalb gewusst, dass er in eine sehr mögliche Verwendungsrolle steigen würde. None the less, these two men barely knew each other, FDR and Truman. They'd only met twice during his vice presidency. And Truman did what vice presidents usually do, the Senate duties and official greetings and parties.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
But very famously, FDR did not instruct him of anything that was going on as far as the war was concerned. I mean, FDR was in his fourth term at this point, so people just kind of gave over to him, didn't they?
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Also war er völlig unvorbereitet. Die Zuhörer müssen das in Erinnerung halten, als wir diese Events in den Sommern 1945 beobachten, wie unvorbereitet Truman für diese Rolle des Präsidenten war. Keine Erfahrung in internationalen Verhältnissen zu sprechen. Und yet he handles this incredibly resourcefully, incredibly professionally. It's amazing.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Es erzeugt den Moment, kurz nachdem Truman als Franklin-Roosevelts Vise-Präsidential-Running-Mate ausgewählt wurde. Seine Hand wird von der Konvention-Vorsitzenden als Kamera-Bulbenflasche gehalten. It's funny when you look closer. It's almost as if Truman is dangling from the man's arm. His expression conveying a genuine sense of startled surprise.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Yeah, I mean, he's had two senatorial terms to get used to federal governance and he's a big presence on the hill. But nonetheless, this is another level altogether. Let's talk about the story of the moment when Truman finds out he is president. This is April 12th, 1945. He is about to start a poker game when the phone rings and he's asked to come to the White House.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
Yes. And so begins this amazing journey that he is about to undertake. He not only has to, of course, step into the official duties, but he has to emotionally carry the nation forward. A nation that has for 12 years, I suppose, been handled by FDR through the Depression and through World War II. It's an incredible time. Whole generations have been born into this time.
American History Hit
President Harry Truman: From Farm to Oval Office and the Atom Bomb
And suddenly this man has this unenviable task to help them understand this and to make this transition with him.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So it doesn't come out of nowhere. So in 1774, a lot of tensions are going on and they're beginning to realize that there might be some sort of conflict coming down the road. I mean, shots have been fired. We're talking about the Boston Massacre and things like that have happened in the years prior.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So one of the aspects of this organization is to have a central location where you have your ammunition and your powder. And so this was a very important and protected place. So the British have realized this, and since they've occupied Boston as a result of so much that has gone on over these years, they are sending out patrols to go and locate this stuff and take it home and destroy it.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So this happens in 1774 in September, the Powder Alarm. And it kind of ignites, no pun intended, this this fire under the forces here. They realize they have to get better at what they're doing. And so the the communications are made are ramped up and the whole system gets more intelligent because of some spying that's going on.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And this whole system becomes part of the game that was not being previously played as intensely. And now it is. So they've had this whole experience prior and they want to protect their powder this time. So when word comes through the intelligence networks, by the way, Thomas Gage is the military governor of Boston sent over by the monarchy in 1774. His wife is American.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
She was born in New Jersey, what becomes New Jersey. And she has a fondness for this cause. And word is, I mean, this is a rumor even today that she may have been in touch with the Boston Intelligence Network, specifically Joseph Warren, who becomes very important in the story, that these things were happening. So they may have had warning through the wife of the governor.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Anybody who wants to look for this information, it's all over the place. I mean, there are lists everywhere about 10 causes of the American Revolution. Just read them for a very pithy example of what I'm about to blabber about. Let's jump in anywhere. 1773, most famously, the Boston Tea Party. That is in response to the Tea Act, to the tax put on tea.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It was also a response to various problems that were going on with the ships there and so forth. And so it was a queue for the Provincial Congress, I believe they're called, in Boston, headed up by John Hancock. to do something about this. Sam Adams also has a lot to do with this, and they dumped the tea.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
In basic American history, that sort of sticks out as another flashpoint and the cause of things. But you have to understand that that has its own cause. And so there are all these other acts dating back into the 1600s, which is so interesting to me. As a result of having this sprawled out empire, Great Britain has to have a whole kind of economic approach to managing this thing.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
They're the first empire to really deal on a worldwide basis with a shipping industry. And so they have laws that make it certain that they will get paid by these ships that are coming back. Exports that are sent to Great Britain have to come in on British ships. And all of these things are sort of developed as policies over the 1600s, which are fascinating. The Navigation Acts, they're called.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And a quick check on any of this will give you all the information you need to know. But you'll see them layered and layered up over the period from probably 1660, which is all the way through to 1763. There is what's called the Declaratory Act, 1766. So here we are 10 years before Lexington conquered. The Declaratory Act is really important.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And that's where Parliament says to all the colonies, we're in charge. We'll tell you what to do. You are under our thumbs. And that's the complete change from what was before, which was this salutary neglect that took place. You know, we learned taxation without representation, but all these other terms are as pithy as that and make it easier to understand that there was a process going on here.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And the result would be the friction that would eventually end in gunfire. I'll be right back after this short break. Meantime, if you'd like us to cover anything specifically, if you have any ideas of subject matter we should be looking at, send us an email at ahh at historyhit.com. We'd love to hear from you.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Exactly. And it's several points. You know, it's the Boston Massacre, which is a result of the occupation of Boston and all the quartering of troops that are throughout that place. And, you know, you can understand Boston itself is a small town. Even today, I say as a New Yorker, as a snobby New Yorker, Boston's a pretty small geographical area. And so in those days, a very small place.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And so you suddenly have these kind of worldwide events happening within these streets that is amazing. And people are dealing with a whole new population of thousands of British troops that have come into town and are all living everywhere around town. These red-coated guys are running the place. And it's an occupation.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So tensions are really high within Boston, never mind all the seditious people outside of town meeting in secret in their pubs and so forth. It's really a 10-year period that really starts with the declaratory act back in the 60s.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Yeah, I mean, it's not even a metaphor. That really is the problem. There's powder. But you mentioned something very important that's a critical backdrop to all of this. The British have occupied Boston, which is a very small city. I mean, it's small today compared to New York. You know, it's a small geographical area. It's just kind of a peninsula into the Boston Harbor.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Into that, you throw, I think, some 7,000 people. British troops eventually are occupying Boston during this period of time. That's an extraordinary balance that's been tipped over. And it leads to things like the Boston Massacre and friction points all over the place, fights.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And, you know, we probably aren't even aware of how much friction there really was because it just happened every day, I imagine. But it most famously happens with the Boston Massacre in 1770 and then all the things that happened since then. But yeah, this is a time of great tension and enormous suspicions have been confirmed. The British monarchy is against us. We are under their thumb.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
This is evidence of tyranny, a complete change of the relationship that... That we were our generation, you know, generations of American colonists had been used to. That's a really important fact to really consider. This is a long time that these people have been living under and with an understanding of this relationship in an entirely different paradigm.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It's within a short period of time, relatively speaking, since the end of the French and Indian War in the 1760s, that things begin to change a lot and then ramp up as we get into the 70s, 70s.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Well, there's three very famous names that come down to us as lore, really, which is to say Sam Adams, who's a critically important person and all that. He's really the rabble rouser of the group. He helps create the committees of correspondence, as I mentioned before. They are the ones that start... communicating more frequently. And John Hancock is a very, very rich merchant in that area.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
He's the head of the Provincial Congress there. He's the one who really is sitting in the chair for the Boston Tea Party. Joseph Warren is a very... famous name because he was kind of the head of an intelligence network in town. He's the one that hangs the lanterns in the Old North Church, one if by land, two if by sea, all of that.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
There's a long list of names that have to do with the Provincial Congress, which has been dissolved and then reunites. You know, this has been sort of boiling up for a long time, both inside of Boston and outside.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
More precisely than the history would even suggest. There was actually a system in place for this alarm, and he is part of that. It's sort of what results as a result of the powder alarm. On the night of April 18th,
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
They're aware of the fact that there's going to be a patrol that's leaving Boston through either the harbor or through the neck, it's called, the land bridge that goes into Massachusetts. And they're used to these things happening or at least rumors of things happening.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And so they have a system in place to prepare the communities that will be affected where they're marching to, those British troops. So they hear that some 700 British troops are going to be leaving Boston in some means. And it's important that they warn those communities. Where they're heading is going to be Concord. Concord is the place where the provincial Congress has been meeting.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It's probably where Hancock and Adams are, who are on the list of most wanted at this point. It's also a center, as the British know, a center of storage for the powder and the guns. And so when Revere, who is William Dawes' partner, leave Boston on the night of April 18th, they're heading out to Lexington and Concord to warn those communities that the British are coming. Now, that's the phrase.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It's really funny when you read about this because you realize it's not the British who are coming because they're all British. So he was not saying the British are coming, the British are coming. Fascinating sidebar. That phrase comes from a legendary poem written by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in 1860.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And that poem was meant to be more about the Civil War, was a suggestion of the Civil War and the Southerners coming than it really was about the Revolutionary. It was meant to sort of be a metaphor. So that phrase was really fabricated. He would have gone from house to house very quietly running around saying, hey, this is what's going on. We're used to this. They're coming. Get ready.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Get your guns. Everybody's in the militia. Start gathering.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
The day begins very early. It's 5 a.m. when the British embark off on their patrol. And there's a lot of them. There's about 700 British soldiers who are going to transport. The American colonists... The Ride of Paul Revere. Revere and Dawes understand where they're going because of the signal, the famous signal that has been prearranged. One if by land, two if by sea.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
These are lanterns that are going to be hung in the windows of the old North Church Tower, which I have stood in. It's very interesting. It's not the same steeple that was there back then. It's been rebuilt, but it is very visible from all parts of Boston, especially in those days. It would have been a very, very high spire. So when they see... Two if by sea, you know, the two lanterns go up.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
They know that the British will be taking boats to go across Boston Harbor. And and that determines the direction they're heading in, which is going to be Lexington and Concord. So in anticipation of that arrival, Revere sets out. Dawes has already set out on the land bridge, which is the neck of Boston, which is heading out that way. So. They're going to meet up later on on that that route.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
But in the meantime, Revere is telling he gets there a little earlier and he's riding along telling these villagers in the various villages along that road that these British troops are coming. He does not famously say the British are coming because he is British. So he wouldn't say that. It's just a warning that the troops are coming.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And remember, this is a system that has been in place for a while now. I mean, the militias have been organized and the alarm systems have been going on for a while. This is not a one-off that Paul Revere is doing by himself. It's not at all.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So you can take the Lexington and Concord battles as one. That's traditionally how it's explained. And that's because the British troops are marching from Boston. And that's a long parade of troops, as you can imagine. There's 700 British troops marching along a dirt road into the suburbs of Boston. You can imagine what that looks like.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Hello, everyone. Don here. Welcome to American History It. The battles of Lexington and Concord are among the most iconic in American history, marking the beginning of the Revolutionary War. Earlier this year, I had the pleasure of joining Matt Lewis, host of Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
By the time the British arrive early in the morning on April 19th, they are confronted by a gathering of American militia. And this is to say some 77 militia have gathered at this point. Understand, to send out the call into the rural lands of Massachusetts, hey, come on, they're coming, is going to take time for these militia to gather.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So this is a building process over the period of both Lexington and Concord. So at first, it's a small gathering. Needless to say, the British have come prepared for this. They set up in their rank and files and they're ready to shoot volley after volley. They do what a professional army does and they win the day, you know, as far as Lexington's concerned. And they march onward.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
At that point, they break this whole force up into parties and they go off looking for all these things they came looking for, the stores of arms and who they're trying to arrest and so forth. And so this... broken-up force marches onward to Concord. They're going to win, obviously. There's a lot more of them than the militia.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
When the British forces march on Concord, they find the American militia set up at the North Bridge, the famous North Bridge. And it is this point that the shot heard round the world is fired. At least according to the poet Ralph Waldo Emerson, who coined the phrase in 1837. And that is to say, everything before this might have been a skirmish and who knows who fired on who.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And it really was kind of the British doing what the British do. And they weren't really looking for a battle. They were going out there to find something. Now it's a battle. The militia have dug in, they're ready, they're positioned for their arrival, and they take a great toll on those forces.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Enough so that the British, who have succeeded in what they came to do, those parties have gone out and found the cannon, they found the powder, they have done what this patrol was meant to do. They turn around and start marching back to Boston. That's where everything turns in the Americans' favor. This is where it becomes a so-called victory, which it really wasn't until this point.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
During the course of that retreat, which takes a long time to get back to Boston, the American militia just pick them off. They start shooting from the trees and moving around this very organized bunch of British troops. And this is where the real toll is taken on those troops. I mean, there's a lot of casualties at that point.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Yeah, it's a metaphor. You know, yes, a shot was fired. We can say that. But it was really the idea that finally what had been building up for really 100 years was shaping up into an actual war.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And at that point, you know, the mythology is told in such a way that you really have the beginning of what becomes an enormous change in the world, in the British Empire at first, and then the emergence of an American nation. So you have to, in the storytelling of that process, you have to find the beginning. And that shot is the beginning. It wasn't physically one.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I mean, yes, there was a shot fired, but it was really the idea of this whole rebalancing of the universe as far as these people were concerned. Yeah. The world was upside down. That's the way they say it.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
They won. I mean, this is important to take away from this. There were a lot more casualties as a result of that retreat on the British side than the Americans. The estimated casualties of this entire event, I don't mean just Lexington, just Concord, or the retreat, the whole thing, is that there were some 393 casualties in total. On the American side, that's 93. On the British, 300 casualties.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Put yourself in that time period. 300 people in the town of Boston, 300 British soldiers have died as a result of what was supposed to be a fairly normal patrol drill. That blows out of the water anything that had happened before at this point. All the arguments, all the massacre or whatever you want to call these events that had happened in Boston to that point, forget about it.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Lexington and Concord really starts the whole thing off.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It's a dam breaking, to mix our metaphors. And what's behind that dam is not just the animosities that have been growing and the resentments and the hurt that has happened with these so-called, you know, these formerly British colonists are feeling betrayed by their mother country and, frankly, vice versa. But it's also the emergence of new ideas politically, socially.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Philosophically, we're in the age of enlightenment. All of this is behind that dam, as I say. And once those shots are fired, that shot fired, you end up with all of that pouring forth. And that becomes Thomas Paine writing Common Sense, the pamphlet that really talks about freedom and liberty.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And it becomes all these different ideas being talked about, which find their way into the Declaration of Independence. It's really an extraordinary tip of an iceberg of what much of which has been happening in Europe in those days and has found its way over to America and that certain thinkers and philosophers have really put into words and published words about them.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I would agree with you, except for the fact that it's very surprising when you look into how much organization had been done to this point. The Continental Congress had met the previous summer. It would meet again very soon. And there was a lot of thinking being done already about this becoming a revolution.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And so those militiamen in Boston, remember, all of this is happening up in New England at this point. The revolution is going to spread south from this, you know, after Boston. And so these guys have been in the heat of not only battle, but also of thinking about this for a long time. Some of those guys are not, you know, older than 20s and 30s.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So imagine their entire lifetimes, their adulthoods have been, you know, amidst this thinking. And these are revolutionaries. You know, you can think about Cuba and all kinds of places around the world where there have been revolutions. And these young people who are part of that, that's the Sam Adams. That's the John Hancocks. Those guys are in the midst of it all.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Every American boy, I mean, just speaking for myself, thinks of being Paul Revere at that moment, that magical moment when that real thing happened, which is what's so cool about it. I've stood in that tower in North Boston and imagined what that looked like and what a dramatic moment that would be. We know they're coming.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
The intelligence has told us, but how are they coming and what's going to happen? And that guy... You know, this silversmith from Boston gets on his horse and starts charging in the night, knowing that he has the secret information that's going to tip the balance. And he begins to get these guys organized. I mean, it's so dramatic and largely true.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I mean, of course, all of this has been mythologized over time. But that's the moment, the tipping point. That's why the great poem is written. You know, that's why it's such a famous moment, because everybody can imagine how dramatic that would have felt.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I think so. I think it's really important, if I may say, a personal note about this. You know, when you're my age and I was raised in the 60s and 70s, we were taught a very, very distilled version of this, of these events. And so we carry forth that kind of simplistic idea of what happened.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
One of the great gratifications of my life, and largely because of doing American History Hit, is immersing myself in the more subtle factors of what created this revolution. And when you do, when you understand it on a deeper level, you end up with a greater appreciation of what created this country.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It really was a bunch of ideas that really were new and interesting and, you know, weren't original. They were happening all over the world at the time. But they really found an incredible platform here in this in this conflict. And really, the modern world, as we know it, is a direct result of so much that got fought over in those days.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
There you go. Thank you for the plug. I will say I can't wait to play this Assassin's Creed game. It might be the first time I ever play a video game, but I'm going to do it because now I've talked about it. Who needs a reenactment when you can do it in your own living room?
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Likewise. I hope your listeners will go looking for their own information. Hello, folks. Thanks for listening to American History Hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content like mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
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American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I'm really glad to be here. Nice to talk to you. Yeah, it's great. I don't think we've ever talked before. Have we done? We have not talked, Matt. They keep us all apart. We podcast hosts. But this is one of my favorite subjects. I am, like all Americans, schooled in the very basics of the fundamentals of the American Revolution. And we have a 250th anniversary coming up in 2026.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So we're all scurrying and scrambling to understand the subject better.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Well, eventually 13. And at the time of the Lexington and Concord battles, that's indeed how many there are. They all have their own relationships with the mother country. And that was really the point when they were created. You know, you have all of the colonies of New England, the states of what become the states of New England, which are New Hampshire, not Vermont.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Stay tuned as Matt and I explore how these quiet rural villages outside of Boston suddenly became the unlikely setting for the famous shots heard round the world as history was about to change forever. Hope you enjoy. Music
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York. That's kind of New England at the time. And remember, New England was, I mean, New York was originally Dutch. And so all this has been cobbled together over the past, you know, century, the 1600s and so forth. The Mid-Atlantic are different. You've got the Pennsylvania, which is really Quaker, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
down to Virginia and all the way down to Georgia. Each one of these colonies is set up, you know, kind of autonomously to have its own relationship with the mother country. New England's different. And that's a really fundamental part of this to talk about. New England is really its own world because it has its own relationship based on very different values than otherwise.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Remember, this is the Puritan colony. This comes, the pilgrims come in 1620. And over the course of the 1600s, a lot of what is the general English policy towards all colonies especially affects New England. It is a very autonomous culture, certainly based on its religious values and all the governance that comes from that, very strict.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
But it's also a different kind of mercantile relationship than the other colonies have, all the way down into the Caribbean, which are much more plantation-driven, much more lucrative to England. New England is a much more about the shipping and the export business coming back and forth. It's the closest one to England. And so it has its own sort of relationship.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And until 1763, that's a very, very autonomous one. And and that's kind of where we have the tipping point that leads to Lexington Concord.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So what we're talking about when we're leading up to the revolution is a sort of continuum towards tyranny. That's how the colonists see it, because as far as they were concerned, they were English citizens who were running their own world over here in the colonies and for that matter elsewhere in other parts of the world as well. But especially in New England, they felt very much on their own.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And so they were trusted. The term was salutary neglect, which was said in 1775 by Edmund Burke. This was a sense that the kingdom of England trusted its colonies to work out things on their own. All that changes with the Seven Years' War, the French and Indian War. Once that war takes place and a huge amount of debt is suddenly saddled by the monarchy, they need to pay this off.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And the colonies, especially New England, especially the American colonies, are the source of that income. That's what really changes things. The other aspect of that period is that the king who was in charge for all those previous years, King George II, dies in 1760. And a new king, George III, who we will be burning in effigy very soon. takes over. He's the grandson of George II.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And that king has a different idea. He needs to shape things up and pay for the debts that were incurred protecting, as he sees it, these colonists.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
The French and Indian War, from the American perspective, has everything to do with setting up the circumstances of taxation without representation and all the changes in laws that start to create this, what we view as a tyrannical regime overseeing our lives when previously we hadn't had that.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Well, by the time of Lexington and Concord, you're talking about the First Continental Congress, which has met in 1774 in Philadelphia at Carpenters Hall. That's the result of a whole increasing communication between the colonies that they previously...
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
to all of these acts of parliament and all this tension hadn't really had, they had had communications, but they really were far apart in those days and didn't really have the ability. It's the emergencies caused by these new acts of parliament in the 17, you know, fifties and sixties that leading up to the seventies that create this need for the, for, uh, for these colonies to communicate.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
They're called the Committee of Correspondence, Committees of Correspondence. Samuel Adams, figures like him, are everything to do with sort of tying up these colonies. Another figure who starts to become very important is Paul Revere, who we will talk about later. He and his like are all about communicating between these different governing bodies in these different colonies.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So as I say, over time, they end up creating finally a Congress that represents all of them, the Continental Congress.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Well, today we talk about Lexington and Concord as suburbs of Boston. They very much are. I mean, people drive in and out of town. It's that close. Of course, in those days they were, you know, they were distant because of the Charles River and Boston Harbor and then a good horse's ride from there. But it can be done in the nighttime, which is what
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
you know, we find out with Paul Revere and William Dawes. It's not that far away. They're directly west. The first one you'll hit is Lexington, and then the second one you'll hit is Concord. But they're very much like all those small communities outside of Boston. These are, you know, agricultural villages. In England, it's the same way. You have all these farming villages, and they all
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
sort of service themselves to a market economy, which is happening in the market town. The same thing is true here, where Boston is the centerpiece of all of these different settlements. It's more extensive than you would think. And that's important for people who don't understand early America or the colonies in those days. These villages were way out there.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
When you hear about the Salem witch trials and so forth, they're way up there in the north. And it's remarkable huge distances between these things in those days. Nowadays, you can do it in a half an hour.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
Well, these were nice places. I mean, of course, they were small places because everything's small in those days. But you have these well-built houses by this time. The merchants who have been working and lawyers and all those sorts of people are living in nice houses on the main street. But that's kind of it. And then beyond that, you have farmland.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I've been inside these houses and explored inside of them for other shows that I've done. And they're wonderful. Well-built two-story houses, House of Seven Gables, these kinds of famous houses that people have heard of in this area are all of that kind of early American style.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I guess for the purposes of the game, you'd want to understand that there's a main drag, you know, one street going through that town and then maybe small alleyways off of that or small little roads off of that. But everything's very, very rural otherwise.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
I'm smiling because this is the point where every American either gets on the train or not. There is a tremendous amount of history that leads up to this moment. When we go to school as elementary school students, we learn that taxation without representation led to a The shot heard round the world and the war began and we won and we were a country. That's kind of how it goes for us.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And that's almost understandable given the fact that when you get into it, the history is very complex, very interesting, but very complex. And it's really 150 years that press down on this moment in 1775 where when these forces meet each other on a bridge in Lexington. I remember when I was a kid, my dad was a historian and he took me all over the Eastern seaboard.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
And one of the big ones, of course, was to go to Lexington and you stand on this rebuilt, built bridge there. In the middle of the battlefield where it all happened. And you can't really picture it. It's so small and so sort of minor. And in my case, my father instructed me, well, this is guerrilla tactics. You know, the militia are gathering here.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
The Redcoats are coming in their ranked files and they're walking up this way and we have the battle. But in fact, that is very much a skirmish. certainly the one in Lexington, and then again in Concord, where really this action takes place is in the retreat. So that 150 years must be considered, but it gets into a very long conversation.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
What you're asking me about is why here, why now, what's happening in Lexington? Well, that really dates back to 1774, September of 1774, what is called the Powder Alarm. Now, at this point, as I've said, a lot is going on that has led to great tensions and friction between England and this colony. The upshot of that is that through these committees of correspondence, militias have been gathered.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
It was a law to have a militia, by the way, an English law. Because it dates back to the French and Indian War. All these communities had to gather. It was kind of like having a reserve for the English army, for the British army, for them to call upon when the time was needed.
American History Hit
Lexington & Concord: The First Battles of the Revolutionary War
So that idea of organizing into a militia, which eventually in New England becomes the Minutemen, is already a foundation laid. So it's not a far cry for someone to call out and say, hey, we gotta get together. Let's get your guns, get your ammunition, let's do this. That's a pretty ordinary thing. They've drilled, they've worked this system. They know how to call the alarm and all that stuff.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
They have both houses and the White House Nach der 52-Elektion, es verändert sich nach der 54-Elektion. Aber das ist ein sehr wichtiger Punkt, dass das beginnt, dieses Ding, das wir wirklich noch Teil davon sind, was Teil 2 des 20. Jahrhunderts ist, das in den 21. Jahrhundert gespült wurde. Deshalb ist es wichtig, Nixon zu verstehen.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Yeah, right. So he's chosen as Eisenhowers vice presidential candidate. In those days it was less of a side by side thing as it is today. You know, it wasn't really a reflection of the president. It was just this guy that they needed. And nonetheless, he becomes a little drama within that campaign because of a slush fund. They called it a slush fund.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Because of this account that was used for expenses, he suddenly has to defend himself and thus maintain his candidacy. And this is the famous Checkers speech, which people may or may not have heard of. It's an early moment of television politics. It's quite dramatic, in my opinion.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
He sits down in his living room, maybe it was a set, I don't know, but his living room with his wife, Pat, and his dog named Checkers. And he proves himself quite adept at using television politically and persuasively. Can you describe what happened there?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Er arbeitet ehrfurchtbar unter Eich. Er wird als der erste moderne US-Vizepräsident bekannt. Er ist viel aktiver als all die, die vor ihm kamen. Aber vor allem wird er der Präsidenten-Ambassadeure im Ausland. Er ist sehr involviert mit freien Dignitaren und besucht freie Länder, insbesondere Saigon und sehr wichtige Orte auf dem Weg.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Natürlich ist der große Teil, er hat den Kitchendebat mit Khrushchev. Das ist im zweiten Termin der Eisenhower-Administration. Tell me how his vice presidency affected his larger career. What did he learn as a VP?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Sure. He is an internationalist. He is a globalist by today's definition. Very much so. He believes in our role and our place because he was a big Marshall Plan guy. He voted for it, just like everybody else did in those days. He saw the responsibility of the United States post-World War II as being, you know, straightening things out.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
And we were going to have to thrust ourselves onto that world stage to do it.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
But you said the key point, fighting communism. It wasn't a good, you know, he wouldn't want to sidle up with people until he does. That's what's going to be weird about it. He's going to sit down and have tea with Mao and it's going to be weird in 1972. But anyway, backing up. So he runs against Kennedy in 1960. This is a good moment to discuss his psychology. Haha. How it has evolved.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Willkommen zurück zu unserer Präsidenten-Serie, als wir heute Nummer 37 erreichen, Richard Milhouse Nixon aus Kalifornien, der zweimal in der Office gewählt wurde, von 1969 bis 1974, als er infamöserweise verabschiedet wurde, den White House an seinen Vizepräsidenten Gerald Ford übergeben hat. These were the late 60s, early 70s. Heady times in America. NASA landing on the moon.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
I mentioned the outsider and the grievance as he's refused entry. If there is an icon of this world, it would be John Kennedy. And he's learned that certainly on the floor of the House and in the Senate. This guy is everything that Nixon probably secretly wants. I'm totally projecting, but that's the suspicion, isn't it?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Seine Navy-Erfahrung, Nixons Navy-Erfahrung war sehr administrativ. Er rannte herum, was nichts schlecht zu sagen ist. Er hat einen guten Job gemacht, viel Administration zu machen. running around the South Pacific. Meanwhile, Jack Kennedy becomes a war hero. And not by his own doing. His boat gets sliced in half. They make a movie about the guy.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
I mean, he has to save his, you know, we've done a whole piece on this. He has to save his men and all this sort of thing. And that's the kind of comparison that Nixon has to be making in his mind all the way along. How does this guy do it?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Ja, genau. Und sie schließen Ränke auf ihn. Ich meine, das ist der Moment, wenn das Gruppe zu Nixon sagt Nein. Und in den nächsten paar Jahren werden wir ein paar Events durchgehen, die jetzt wirklich den Deal auf sein Gefühl schließen, dass sich das in seinem Leben verändert wird.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
If he made it, I mean, this is a very close election, he loses against Kennedy, thanks to other reasons, but he could have very easily been the president in 1960. And you wonder what would have happened at that point for Nixon. It's a counterfactual, we can't go into it, but I mean, it's a remarkable moment of pivot for this guy.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Well, it's only reinforced by the fact that he runs for the governorship of his own state and loses there, you know, to another sort of cabal, the Browns, all of that world. And that's when he makes his famous declaration, you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Er sagt, nach diesem Kalifornien-Verlust, November 11, 1962, ich erinnere mich an meine Eltern, die darüber gesprochen haben. Das ist, als die Leute gesagt haben, dieser Kerl ist einfach bitter. Er hat eine ganze dunkle Qualität zu seiner Persönlichkeit, die ein bisschen seltsam ist.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Hippies tuning in and dropping out in Haight-Ashbury. Vietnam and Woodstock and Charles Manson. Draft cards being burned along with women's brassieres as soldiers marched on Kent State University firing real bullets. In New York, the twin towers of the World Trade Center rose up as the city teetered toward financial collapse.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
He enters into the wilderness years of his career, 62 to 67-ish, during which time he travels more. He goes to Europe, Asia, Latin America, Middle East. He's got to be playing chess here. This is a fascinating period I don't know much about because it's just not publicly discussed very often what happened to him between 62 and 67.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
A big moment is, of course, Goldwater, you know, and the election or the non-election of Barry Goldwater, which had to have been a school unto itself.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Marvin Gaye crooned What's Going On, while Walt Disney conjured a new fantasy land in Florida. And the Supreme Court decided in favor of a woman's right to choose, if only temporarily. This was the age of the movie blockbusters, at once sublime, terrifying and absurd. The Godfather, The Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And against this boggling backdrop was the Nixon presidency.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
But at that point he would be imagining himself going against Lyndon Johnson, who's kind of another Senate buddy, you know. But he would be doing it in the anti-government stance, which is the part of Goldwater that he adhered to, right?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
He is a chess player. I mean, let's get it straight. Richard Nixon is a very smart man. I mean, really smart guy. And so he can see things other people can't. And he's a chess player at this point in American politics because of all the different movements that are happening here. And I just really want to point out the fact that he sees the importance of the center.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
more than, say, today's conservatives do. I mean, you can see such an opposition between the two approaches. Nixon understands that electorally he has to win some of that, it turns out to be the southern vote. He has to grab from the Democrats what they have alienated in his mind. A lot of that, sadly, comes from the Republicans' anti-civil rights stance.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Strom Thurmond aus Südamerika wird sich zentral in all dem befinden, der ein Demokrat war, switcht zu Republikaner, er ist Teil dieser ganzen Switchover. Und das beginnt wirklich eine Basis für Unterstützung, die bis heute weitergeht. Durch Reagan bis zu Trump. Startet mit Nixon, startet mit Goldwater wirklich.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Und dann nimmt Nixon das Mantel und adoptiert es für sich selbst, was für einen Quaker ironisch ist, muss ich sagen. You know, this guy who has these social justice values that he's raised with suddenly is going to turn against that particular avenue in life politically. I mean, that's how it was seen.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
So, Nikki, as we approach 68, the election of 68, he's decided to run either privately or publicly. How does he have to reshape himself? It's called the new Nixon, isn't it?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Those of us alive at the time have very personal feelings about the man, given the length and breadth of his very public career. The arms jutted up in victory, his consternation under duress, the famously sweaty upper lip. His love of country, his sense of duty was so clear, yet at the same time it seemed obscured by behavior that was grandiose and sometimes paranoid.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Yeah, there had obviously been many third-party candidates in the past in American politics, obviously, but this was a new and very specific challenge to the Republicans, wasn't it?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Well, he has the advantage also. He was the former Vice President. Ike loved him. It's all good. You know, he definitely appeals to the wider American spectrum. So he frames his campaign, as he said, on law and order in a society which was coping with a lot of unrest, you know, through certainly into 68.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
And as he's campaigning, things are happening that are only reinforcing the fact for many people that things need to calm down. We need to get a handle on this. He also is starting to shape his message about Vietnam, which will become Peace with Honor later on in the peace talks. But his idea is, I can get you out of this war and we're still going to have our reputation intact.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
who were in their second and third presidential campaigns or voting at that point. It's a very close election. He wins over LBJ's Vice President, Hubert Humphrey. Wallace plays a big factor, as we heard. I mean, it's a definite electoral win, but it's a very close election in the polls. Which brings us to his presidency.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Richard Nixon ist wirklich wichtig, nicht nur politisch, sondern psychologisch.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Who was Richard Nixon is a question we'll attempt to answer today with Professor Nicole Hemmer, political historian at Vanderbilt University, host of the This Day podcast, whose latest book is Partisans, the conservative revolutionaries who remade American politics in the 1990s. Greetings, Nikki. Welcome to American History Hit.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Boy, is that going to play a big factor in the early 1970s. But there's a lot before that, certainly in the 60s, and there's a lot about his presidency that's really important and very inclusive of lots of people that surprise a lot of people, including the creation of the EPA. We'll talk about all of that in our next episode about the presidency and the fall of Richard Nixon.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Professor Nicole Hemmer ist politische Historikerin an der Vanderbilt University und Host. Ich empfehle es hartlich. Der This Day Podcast. Ihr neuestes Buch ist Partisans, die konservative Revolutionäre, die die amerikanische Politik in den 90er-Jahren wiederentwickelt haben. Und wir werden von ihr viel mehr hören in der nächsten Zukunft. Vielen Dank, Nikki. Es war ein Vergnügen.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
I hope you enjoyed this episode of American History Hit. Please remember to like, review and subscribe. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And I'll see you next time.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
So you have gone with the flow here. We're going to do this Nixon podcast in two parts. We're doing the rise and then his presidency and the fall in a separate episode. My call entirely because there's so much about Nixon that is so important and relevant to today's politics, certainly in the presidency. Is that true?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Genau. Sie sprechen über den amerikanischen Century. Es war viel von Richard Nixon, der amerikanische Century war. Das ist richtig. Er war groß. Er war eine definierende Figur, sowohl für diejenigen, die ihn unterstützten, als auch für diejenigen, die ihn opposierten, was der Fall ist mit allen großen Figuren der Geschichte.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
In Los Angeles one day, I used to live out there, I went to the Nixon homestead in Yorba Linda, drove myself down there to come to terms with the guy, because I grew up with this man. I remember walking through that impossibly modest kit house that he was born in. I mean, it's tiny, a postage stamp house. And then you come out and there's the plot with Pat Nixon right there.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Es ist der 27. April 1994 in Yorba Linda, Kalifornien, tief in Orange County. Präsident Bill Clinton spricht an den Memorial Services seines Voraussetzungsvorsitzenden, dem alten Präsidenten Richard M. Nixon. Er beantwortet eine begründete Begründung von Dignitarien, verehrten Gästen und Medien, außerhalb der modesten Heimat, in der Richard Nixon und seine Brüder geboren wurden.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
And the helicopter that carried him out of the White House at the end. It's hard to conceive that such a life and career could possibly sprout from such simple roots.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
He grows up in a, we say Yorba Linda, in those days, this is Orange County for a reason. This is citrus country in those days. His dad was a lemon farmer to start with, ends up owning a gas station and all of that. But This was very much a rural countryside place that he grows up in and how he identifies himself. Whittier is right nearby. It's the Quaker College down the road.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
He goes there and then he goes on to Duke and that's when his life starts to grow up. But it's really important to register the fact that he comes from this modesty.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
We're going to touch on this many times, so we might as well get it right out of the way. There's this moment in his life at various stages when he feels excluded from things. That's a theme. He wants in to an inner circle, but he's outside of it.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
And that's why I make the point of saying he's in this rural countryside looking east to the northeast intelligentsia, you know, which is going to come forward in the relationships with the press. with the Kennedys, all of these major, major moments in his career will have something to do with this theme of trying to get into this group that he's outside of.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
It's in the fraternity world of Whittier, which is weird because it's a Quaker college, they don't usually have fraternities, but he couldn't get into the one he wanted to, so he goes and creates his own.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
I know, exactly. This is the irony. When we get to the end of these two episodes, I promise you, you'll say, how would a guy with that resume feel any sense of bitterness or exclusion for that matter? He did everything he wanted to do.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
He, like so many of his age, serves in the U.S. Navy, or in World War II, in his case the U.S. Navy, returns home and he enters politics because a local businessman had recognized him. He'd gone to Duke and got his law degree. He was an up-and-coming kid in the area. People knew him as, you know, one of the smart guys. He is recommended to run for the U.S. House of Representatives.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
1946, he gets in, kicks out the Democrat, which is interesting. Sort of the end of that FDR period in Orange County, for sure. Not even two terms in the House before he's elected senator from California in 1950. And then it's two years before he's the vice presidential pick for Eisenhower. I mean, this is a rocket ship the guy's on. He's the J.D. Vance of the times.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
A small, white, wooden kidhouse, ordered by mail from a catalog, built by his father, who assembled it piece by piece on their lemon farm. One can imagine the scene. Richard Nixon as a young boy, his face gazing out of the tiny window of the attic loft bedroom he shared with his brothers, now a short distance from where his casket rests today, draped with an American flag.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Drill down a bit with this whole period of time, because this is pre McCarthy. Nixon is Cold War 1.0, you know, versus McCarthy, who comes along later on and kind of picks that, takes the baton in a way. How did he become such a fervent anti-communist? What triggered all that off?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
I guess my question is that he is so, you know, when you look back on Nixon, so opportunistic. He so understands the lay of the land. He so sniffs these things out. That I always wondered if he saw this as a way of finding a fast track with the Republican Party. He saw this whole developing wave coming.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
And I always wondered if there was one person that he, a relationship that was his mentor in all of this.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Yeah, remember, this all happens in the first term of his, you know, he doesn't even serve his full second term. In his first term at the House of Representatives, he becomes quite famous. And this is without the advantage of television news and all that sort of thing. He's just coming through the papers this way as a big voice against communism. And he really shoves himself out there.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Bezüglich der Beratungen, die du erwähnt hast, der Alger-Hiss-Beratung. Alger-Hiss war einer dieser Intelligenzen, einer dieser Leute in der Staatsbibliothek, der in der Washington-Kreise war, der existierte als jemand, den Nixon als ein Kabal sah, als Teil eines Kabals. Er hatte diese fragwürdigen Aspekte zu seinem Resümee, sicher. Aber war er tatsächlich ein Kommunist?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Clinton, die Haus, der Kaskett, alle verkleidet von einem mächtigen Ochtree, der sich an die enormen Reise des Jungen im Fenster erinnert. Was würde Richard Nixon in diesen vielen Jahren passieren, als die Leber auf diesem Tiefen geflogen und geflogen und wieder geflogen?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Yeah, a weird guy. Whitaker Chambers was a spooky man in many ways.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Right. And as you mentioned before, there are these very scandalous moments, the most famous of which is the pumpkin papers where he hid this microfilm, right? It was something that was kept in a pumpkin in a patch so no one could find it, but he outs it and it's a big deal. There's a very famous Nixon quote regarding the Hiss case, which has echoes into the future.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
If you're going to cover up, he says, you're going to get caught. And if you lie, you're going to be guilty of perjury. Basically, that's the whole story of the Hiss case. It's not the issue that will harm you. It's the cover up that will be damaging, which is so much the case with Nixon's career that things resonate forward, don't they?
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
Die vielen Saisonen, als er alt wurde, dann in der Krieg, in der Kampagne für den Kongress, in die Welt geflogen und dann in die höchste Office in der Welt geraten, nur um in Schmerzen zu fallen. What do we make of the man that boy became, now that he's gone? Who was, after all, the real Richard Nixon? Hallo alle, ich bin Don Wildman und ihr hört sich zu American History Hit an.
American History Hit
Richard Nixon: Rise from Poverty
I'm going to keep repeating this throughout this conversation. Nixon is so much a part of bigger themes that we are still experiencing today. He is part of the famous resurgence of conservatives in the 1950s. After decades of FDR, New Dealism has been in charge through the war and all the rest of it. Now, in the 1952 election, famously, the conservatives come forward.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
The dynamic plays out quite interestingly at Tehran, because they end up actually as housemates, don't they? I don't mean that in the casual sense, of course, but rather than staying elsewhere at the U.S. Embassy and so forth, they share a domicile during this period. I guess that would have been a practical matter as well, because you've got a man with polio.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
FDR is dealing with his condition all the way, and so it's difficult for him to move around.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
And this has all of course been pre-planned. They know these decisions are in the wind. They've got to do this now.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
These iconic meetings, you know, we know from great photographs and so forth and these sort of scattered moments, but these are long days. Is there a record of these men sitting and casually talking and having drinks and so forth? It must have happened, especially if they're living together.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
One of the tipping points in all of this, in the big picture and more contained here, is the fate of Poland. And one of the important things to consider, the difference between FDR's pressures and Stalin's, is he's dealing with a lot of Polish Americans back home, gigantic amounts in Chicago and so forth.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
This has to be a pressure on him as he's realizing, yikes, you know, this guy wants Poland for sure, he's already in it. And how are we going to deal with this down the road?
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Yeah. So that's November 1943, the Tehran Conference in Iran. The next time they meet is Yalta, February 1945, quite a different set of circumstances. It's clear the Allies are marching towards victory. It's a ways off yet still, but a D-Day was a big success. All these things have happened now. So they are now basically figuring out the aftermath.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
These big three are meeting again, but the men are in totally different conditions, especially FDR.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
They're meeting on his terms. I mean, again, they're close to Russia. They're in Russia at this point.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Yeah, in the Soviet Union. Yalta is on the Crimea Peninsula. Tell me about how they're dealing with Poland. That is the critical issue.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
How much of the discussion is about the United Nations? Because that's a new idea to Stalin at this point? Or does he know this is happening?
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Stalin wants to stay neutral on Japan or is he willing to wage war against them?
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
It will play out in a very interesting way because, of course, Truman doesn't want them to come into Japan at that point, at the end of the war. And that's all kinds of theories about the atomic bomb and so forth, you know. It's incredible. The pathos of this whole thing, of course, looming over all of this is a couple of months from now, FDR will die of a stroke.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
It's an incredible timing of all of this stuff. It doesn't get any more dramatic than all of these events. You do wonder about the counterfactual of whether, if he had not died, how the world would have looked, you know, based on the relationship between these two men.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
A lot of what happens in the 50s has a result of this lack of a baton being passed. This whole strange tension between these two presidents and one having to take over in a completely naive way. I mean, relatively speaking, it's amazing. There's nothing about the atomic bomb. One of those tipping points of American history that get ignored a lot because we just celebrate FDR so much.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
for the grandeur of his four terms, but it was three terms in a week or a month anyway. Professor Phillips O'Brien teaches history and strategic studies at St. Andrews University in Scotland. I am jealous. He's the author of The Strategists, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt, Mussolini and Hitler, How the War Made Them and How They Made War. Fascinating. Er ist ein well-known figure on social media.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Where can we find you in that regard? There's a big substack with you, right?
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Hello, this is American History Hit. Glad you're with us. I'm Don Wildman. Nach einer Serie von internen Machtschrecken und dann der große Verlust der Mitte der 1930er-Jahre, hat Stalin mit absoluter Macht über sowjetische Verhältnisse, domestische und internationale, erfolgt.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
I hope you enjoyed this episode of American History Hit. Please remember to like, review and subscribe. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And I'll see you next time.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Im August 1939 hat er einen Non-Aggression-Treaty mit Deutschland geschlossen, den Molotow-Ribbentrop-Pakt, nicht zehn Tage bevor die Nazis Polen auf September 1, 1939, die Krieg triggerten. Stalin hatte erwartet, dass dieser Vertrag die Sicherheit seines kommunistischen Staates gewährleisten würde, während die Kapitalisten im Westen sich zerstören.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Dies wäre ein strategischer Verlust von titanischen Bedingungen, als Hitler diesen Vertrag 1941 verabschiedete, Operation Barbarossa und Russland invadierte. Suddenly, Stalin would need to join with those capitalists and forge critical relationships with their leaders, including and especially Franklin Delano Roosevelt, President of the United States.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
This high-stakes alliance and the unlikely relationship between these two leaders is our subject today, in the company of a man who authored the book entitled The Strategists – Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt, Mussolini and Hitler – How the War Made Them and How They Made War –
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
A well-known figure on the socials for his commentary on the war in Ukraine, Philipps O'Brien teaches history and strategic studies at St. Andrews University in Scotland. Philipps, welcome to American History Hit. Nice to have you.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Philipps, when FDR and Stalin first meet, it's November 1943. We're deep in the war in Tehran at this point, the Tehran Conference. Many communications have gone back and forth over the years by this time. And I want to quote one of these messages. I won't date it. This is from FDR to Stalin, and it really captures an interesting tone between them. I hope to talk over many things with you.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
We understand each other's problems and, you know, I like to keep discussions informal. No reason for formal agenda. The you know really strikes me. It's a very interesting chemistry that's going on here.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Und das war es. How much would FDR have known about the purges and all the controversy of the 1930s? I mean, it was terrible stuff happened there.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Weihnachtsabend 1943. Franklin Delano Roosevelt saß vor seinem Radio-Mikrofon, bereit, die Nation zu beantworten. Es war ein arduöser Weg, die letzten Monate November und Dezember, in Algerien, Tunesien, Iran, Ägypten, Malta, Sizilien und Senegal zu reisen. Now, with his thinning gray hair neatly groomed, Roosevelt began to recount the pivotal meetings of the past weeks.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
And that's the difference. The other thing is, I mean, through these years, the 1930s United States, there's a lot of people who empathize with Russia, who are interested in those kinds of politics, at least socialism, but certainly lots of communists in the United States. All that will play out, of course, over the 20th century.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
But that was a big pressure going on internally here that Roosevelt had to recognize and had to sort of account for, right?
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Ich meine, das sind Männer, und das geht für, you know, all kinds of ages and eras. These are men who are going to send massive amounts of people to their death. I mean, the people that... Wage Wars have to come to terms with the idea of the practicality of this kind of thing.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
So understanding why Stalin would have done what he did in the middle 1930s and to define it for anyone who doesn't understand, these are these enormous show trials. It's a result of the internal power struggles within the Soviet Union, starting with Trotsky and all these guys. Stalin has to win out over these people and he does it in the most extraordinary way.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
In 1937, there's very, very famous show trials that And just up to a million and a half people are killed or put into gulags in this time period. Anybody with a spy in Moscow would have known this is happening. So we certainly did. But to take that into account when you're trying to forge a relationship with somebody is a pretty amazing dynamic to go with.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Exactly. Yeah, he's the first American president to do that. I mean, there are four, right, before him. Go down the list. Wilson, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover. None of those guys recognize the Soviet Union. 1933, FDR does, for all the reasons we're talking about.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Er hat natürlich auch den Riss erkannt. Ich weiß nicht, wie FDR so viel über den Weltkrieg wusste. In diesen Tagen, wir glauben, dass wir viel wissen, und das ist einfach, weil es uns jeden Morgen auf den Telefon rutscht. Ich meine, er hat den Riss des Faschismus verstanden, wie ich glaube, niemand anderes hat es wirklich in Amerika.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
In Cairo, he and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill had conferred separately with Chinese Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek and Turkish President İsmet İnönü. In Teheran, the pair had sat down with Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin. For Roosevelt, this marked a momentous occasion. His first face-to-face meeting with the man who held Russia in his iron grip.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
At the same time, he is dealing with enormous pressures at home. I mean, the Great Depression is going on. I mean, this is a terrible time in the United States. And yet somehow he has to look beyond this and keep a perspective that we are still a powerful country that is able to provide... Also in 1943 und wir sprechen über die Teheran-Konferenz, die wir in einem Moment definieren werden.
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Of course, we have the Pacific War raging at that point, 1941 onward. So all of this has come to pass and is being brought to bear on this meeting that is going to happen between these two men. So let's talk about Tehran. There is going to be another one called Yalta later on. But what happens during this first conference?
American History Hit
FDR & Stalin
Vor diesem Zeitpunkt hat die Vereinigten Staaten Russland durch ein ähnliches Programm unterstützt, das für die UK vor uns in der Kriegspolitik involviert war, das Lend-Lease-Programm. War es das gleiche? Wurden sie die ganze Idee über Russland übertragen?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
They were demonstrating that they were serving the Constitution, a number one. That was the top of the list. Yeah, and I find myself sort of smiling, you know, remembering this time. It wasn't smiling at all. I mean, this was hardcore grim events going on. That was real brinkmanship as far as our national politics go and territory no one had been into before.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
This was really scary stuff for my parents. I was all of 10 years old at the time, but... It was really hardcore stuff. Interesting sidelight, Gerald Ford and Betty Ford were meant to be the first VP couple to live in the new vice presidential residence, which had been getting made and renovated on the naval base there up until this point where people live now.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
But they were not going to live there, it turned out, because it was a week later or something that they were told that this is going to happen. So August 7th, 1974, Richard Nixon announces a famous speech. Watch it on YouTube. Incredible moments. Effective noon tomorrow, he'll step down. How did Ford feel about Nixon resigning?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Did he had he supported his president in standing up to this or was he one of those who was advising him otherwise?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Unfortunately concurrent with a stagnant economy and generally diminished morale, thanks to Vietnam and a public hangover from Nixon and Watergate. All this was the backdrop for the Ford presidency. Ford was a moderate Republican, a respected, long-serving member of the House of Representatives for 12 terms, 24 years.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
So let's state this outright. Ford has nothing to do with Watergate, but he's going to find it hard to escape its shadow. That's the problem. Simply because it was hard to believe that there wasn't some kind of deal behind the scenes, that this healer of the nation would also be a partner of a crook. On August 8th, 1974, he is inaugurated and he announces our long national nightmare is over.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Many of us rolled our eyes. No, it's not. It just started. But thank you, Gerald Ford. He has done what he came to do. He's bridging us back to normalcy. That's how he sort of saw himself.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
During the previous two years, but he's dealing with disillusionment. He's dealing with hostility, the political and well, the media environment is just a completely new, you know, can of worms after after The Washington Post is breaking all this stuff and it just gets kind of worse and worse. He's the guy who's really sort of standing there going, whoa, whoa, whoa.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
This all used to work because we kind of got together, you know, over the Congress. But now the executive branch has just become the star of the show like never. Well, not like never before. It used to be under FDR. It's reemerged as a huge focus of Washington politics that hadn't been in my lifetime at the time. It was really a brand new game.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Ford is most famously, of course, known as the man who replaced Nixon's vice president, Spiro T. Agnew, and then the president himself after Nixon resigned. Thus, Ford becomes the only U.S. president to serve unelected by the American people.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Just wait till the U.S. Supreme Court lets the cameras in because they're bound to do it because that's exactly what happens. All this press and all this attention has tilted these branches against each other in ways the Constitution could never have predicted, of course. One month after he takes office, September 8th, 1974, he makes the fateful decision.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
or at least the announcement of the decision, he grants Nixon, quote, full, free and absolute pardon for all offenses. He is motivated to do so, he says, trying to move on from Watergate. Boy, does that backfire.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
He is an enigmatic figure in the presidential pantheon, for reasons we'll decipher today with Professor Catherine Brownell of Purdue University, who is the director of the Center for American Political History and Technology, author of the book 24-7 Politics, Cable Television and the Fragmenting of America from Watergate to Fox News.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Yeah, he's handed a poison chalice, really. I mean, his major problem becomes this image problem that is in this media environment that's new to him and to us. Extremely hostile post-Nixon. I mean, really, Nixon kind of released the hounds as far as the press is concerned. How is it that Ford can't manage that well? Is he just bad at that or has he chosen to close off?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
What's his strategy that fails so badly? Because all I remember is Chevy Chase, you know, fumbling with a, you know, rolling a joint on an SNL.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
But then you have the tail wagging the dog problem of media becoming its own big mess. You've written about this in your book. I'll plug you, 24-7 Cable. It's an important book because that is really such a huge theme in our society even today. I should point out, I mentioned Chevy Chase. This is the Saturday Night Live for audiences elsewhere who might not understand this.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
At the same time as Gerald Ford comes along, this amazing show that's on today, 50 years later, is Saturday Night Live. And the star of that show is Chevy Chase. And Ford was just crosshairs for these guys because he was this nice guy president who was trying to do everything right but doing everything wrong at the same time somehow. A perfect foil, a perfect target for mockery.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Professor Brownell was the guest for our Watergate episode number 139. Invite you to listen to that. And greetings, Katie. Welcome back to American History Hit.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
And they make hay with him and do all sorts of things. This is what I mentioned in the beginning. He was characterized as this klutzy guy who was just sort of falling up and down stairs all the time and doing everything wrong. He was none of those things. He was a very, you know, poised individual, but it was the times. And so he was really getting the fray from what Nixon started.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Tell me how they portray him. What does he look like on that show?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
There is a fascinating biographical fact from Gerald Ford's earliest youth that I alluded to in the opening. And I just want to state it up front because I think it strikes a chord, a theme that is resonant throughout his entire life. Ford was born... Leslie Lynch King Jr. in Omaha, Nebraska, July 14th, 1913. But his parents separated weeks later and then divorced.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
They get a lot of attention and it becomes exactly what Saturday Night Live does for the next 50 years to a lot of presidents. Exactly. This is the story with General Farr. We haven't even talked about him being president. We just talk about him getting to be president, what he does immediately. That's the problem with understanding this particular U.S. president. Let's discuss this.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
So he he does pretty good things as president. They don't get a lot of attention historically, but he sets the course for a recovery for the economy. He continues the detente for international relations to move towards what happens under Reagan and the handshakes with Gorbachev later on.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
All that begins kind of taking hold with Ford, even the Israeli-Egyptian stuff that happens under Carter later on. Ford has a lot to do with all of that stuff.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Well, this is the emergence of what you mentioned before, this hard right, which becomes Ronald Reagan, really. And they start to undermine his centrist attitudes and policies at this time. And there's some real bad early debate stuff happening in New Hampshire between Reagan and Ford in that in that election. But the damage is done.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
And but it's important to recognize that it comes from within his party as much as it comes from the outsider Jimmy Carter calling him out.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
His mom and him moved back to Grand Rapids. And very soon afterwards in her life, his mom meets a guy named Gerald R. Ford. who is a very respectable guy with a wonderful painting business. And he gives that name to his newly or soon to be adopted son, Gerald R. Ford. And that's how Ford becomes his name. It's a fascinating thing.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Well, Carter's also running against Nixon. I mean, that's really Nixon is still the Ford Nixon thing. And so it's easier for someone like Carter, who had never served in federal office. He was the governor of Georgia to sort of point the finger and say, you know, we got to clean this place up. It's the old traditional thing to say, you know, I got to come from outside the beltway.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
And Carter plays that to the hilt. Ford plays a role. He gaffes a bit. He's, you know, making mistakes in his debates. But they have that first big debate that's on. It sort of harkens back to the Kennedy-Nixon thing, doesn't it?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
And it was the League of Women Voters, right? I mean, they were sponsoring the debates. That sounded so good in the ERA days.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
And I think it's important only to understand at the outset that Gerald Ford always played a role in accommodating disruption. That's my point. And when that is imprinted early on in life, it sticks with you.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
So the classic bio question, what do you make of Gerald Ford's legacy as a president? It's so short lived.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
How interesting, how ironic that someone like Gerald Forge should be the one who, as I say, releases those hounds.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Right. And we live in that landscape today. I mean, in both the entertainment and the news aspect of media, it is a whole different world than the one I was born into. Professor Catherine Brownell teaches history at Purdue University, where she's also the director of CAPT, Center for American Political History and Technology on the Purdue campus.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
She is author of, as we've mentioned several times, a book, 24-7 Politics, Cable Television and the Fragmenting of America from Watergate to Fox News. We're going to have you back, Katie, to talk about that. And for anyone curious, please do have a listen to her expertise about Watergate on the American History Hit episode 139 I mentioned.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Go to American History Hit page and hit all episodes and nearly 300 will scroll forth. But listen to hers first. Thank you very much, Katie. Really appreciate it. See you soon.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Thanks for listening to this episode of American History Hit. As you've made it this far, why not like and follow us wherever you get your podcasts? American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Right. We'll get to all that in detail, but it's important to understand. I mentioned he is an enigma. People sort of never quite understood who he was because he was always kind of in the background of American politics. But that's kind of where it comes from, this psychology. He had three stepbrothers as a result of that remarriage.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
He attended University of Michigan and was a star athlete, big time. Wolverine's MVP two years in a row, 1934 and 35. And this becomes important to me. I don't know why, but... Later on, he is incorrectly identified as a klutz, when in fact, this man was an astonishing footballer who almost went pro with the Green Bay Packers and the Detroit Lions. They were vying for him.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Cut to NBC Studio 8H, where a young Chevy Chase, the breakout star of SNL, launched into his impersonation of President Ford as a klutz, who, if he wasn't falling over or fumbling a glass of water onto himself, was just about to. Real-life President meets exaggerated parody, the Commander-in-Chief deciding, if you can't beat a joke, then join it. Well, for one line at least. Hello, listeners.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
He went the path of law instead. He passes the bar in Michigan after he studied law at Yale, then joins the Navy in World War II, sees a lot of action in the South Pacific on an aircraft carrier called the USS Monterey. I just think it's important to understand this guy had a heck of a life early on and was very celebrated, even had a New York City model for a girlfriend.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
I mean, it's so contrary to... to the reputation he has later on. He runs for Congress out of Grand Rapids, 1948. He beats the isolationist incumbent, Bartel Jonkman. Give me an idea of this time after World War II. What is the national politics in terms of the Republican Party?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
The 1970s weren't all bad news. At least there was usually something decent on TV. And on April 17, 1976, surprised late-night viewers tuned into NBC and saw President Gerald Ford standing in the Oval Office in front of the flag, staring gun barrels straight into the camera, wearing a somewhat glazed expression as he announced, "'Live from New York! It's Saturday night!'
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
It's so interesting. I mean, I so value this series that we've done because it's given me perspective on the whole 20th century, really. But what happens after Truman, after World War II and his desegregation of the military, et cetera, right up until Brown versus Board of Education under Eisenhower, that whole period is really the engine of such discord, isn't it? It really splits everything.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Both parties, really. And it begins to set you up for Goldwater in 64 and then Nixon later on. And everything that kind of ripples through even to modern day starts at that period.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Nixon is going to drive this thing. And Ford had a very tight relationship with Nixon in the Congress. They were good pals. So it's that that really drives the interest and the Congress, as you say, Carl Albert, in choosing Ford as this replacement for Agnew. Can we talk about that that episode and how it works?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Yeah, there's a big controversy brewing, of course, as if it's important to recognize these are two separate scandals. Agnew's whole corruption scandal really dates back to being governor of Maryland and all that stuff that happened then. It's later that Watergate really bubbles up and becomes what it is. But those are two separate things.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
It just feels like they're together because it's the same time period of 72 to 74. In light of those controversies, Nixon also picks Ford because he knows Congress is just going to approve him. Right. I mean, that's it's really important that this just happens quickly.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Great to have you with us. I'm Don Wildman, and this is American History Hit. Today, we progress onward with our President series as we now reach number 38. President Gerald R. Ford of Grand Rapids, Michigan. R is for Rudolph, something central to understanding the boy who became the man. More on that later. Ford's abbreviated presidency lasted from 1974 to 1977.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Right. But I want to underscore that this reputation that he has had has been developing for 20 years. He's always been that guy in between. He's been a very respected member of that inner circle of people. Lots of big committees, I think appropriations he was on or something. There were major committees he was the head of.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Not to mention he's from a major democratic state, which is in Michigan, big union territory, the auto workers and so forth. So He's really right in there in the strategy of that idea. He was frustrated, as I understand, because Nixon's landslide in 72 actually didn't give them the kind of majority that he was expecting would happen, right?
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
It's still so divided because the Congress is really democratic.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
You know, what's interesting is that this is under done under the 25th Amendment. Of course, the articles of the Constitution have originally ideas of the vice president stepping in, but they really changed the Constitution or sharpened it, I guess, with the 25th Amendment in light of the Kennedy assassination. 1967, this happened.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
Right. This has not been attended to before. And this sets him up, as I said in the opening, to become the only unelected president in our entire history. So fascinating. From the moment Ford is inaugurated as vice president, December 6th, 1973, hardly approved by his congressional colleagues, as we said, Watergate then continues to unfold over the next year. Nixon won't resign until August 1974.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
So that's 10 months after he's been named to vice president. We're going to run into the moment that Nixon gives up the office. He is called secretly on August 1st, 1974, by Alexander Haig, who was Nixon's chief of staff, who tells him to prepare. How does Ford go about this? Give me the whole experience that he's going through at this point.
American History Hit
Gerald Ford: The Unelected President
During these years, Bruce Springsteen's Born to Run was released. Remember that well because I'm from New Jersey. Blockbuster movies, The Godfather Part II, Jaws, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. It was America's 200th birthday, the bicentennial in 1976.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Hello everybody, I'm Don Wildman. Welcome back to American History Hit. Thanks for listening. Today we are in the realm of the counterfactual, asking the burning question, what if President John Kennedy had lived? What if Dallas never happened? What if those shots had missed? Of all the forks in the road that appear on that fateful day, one of the big questions seems to be this.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
JFK trifft Khrushchev. Ich war überrascht und musste mich daran erinnern. 1961 in Wien. Was passiert in dieser Konferenz?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Summer of 1963. Between 61 and 63, their advisors have been sent in. There is a beginning of an American presence there. The war is not going well. There's been a worldwide condemnation based on very famously these monks who've been self-immolating in the streets there. Those pictures were horrifying.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
A lot of protest has been going on about what is happening here as the United States inflicts itself on this land. Kennedy comes up with a withdrawal plan or not?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Would Kennedy have started a war in Vietnam? Many people argue this point, questioning whether he would have or would have not. But we have an excellent guest today to discuss this interesting question in the person of Frederick Logevall, historian at Harvard, a leading authority on JFK and the Vietnam War,
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
November 1963 ist natürlich der kritische Moment. Wir erinnern uns daran, als die Verurteilung stattfand, aber etwas anderes passierte dort, eine andere Verurteilung in Südvietnam. Der Leiter wurde getötet. Wie viel, ich meine, jetzt beginnst du, in die Konspirationstheorie zu schweigen.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
It seems pretty incredible that these two major events of two world leaders being killed in the same month are not related in some way. That's where you can take off. So let's discuss first of all, what is that assassination, the real facts of it.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
His 2013 book, Embers of War, The Fall of an Empire and the Making of America's Vietnam, won the Pulitzer Prize. Wow. He is currently working on a three-volume biography of JFK. The first volume, JFK, Coming of Age in the American Century, published in 2020. Volume 2 is out next year. Dr. Logevall is a former guest on American History Hit back in 2023. And here back again.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Es macht dich schmerzen, es tut es wirklich. Es ist so seltsam und Ironie ist das schwächste Wort überhaupt, aber es ist eine unglaubliche Reihe von Events. So now we move into this counterfactual land. As you say, three weeks later, JFK himself is killed.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
There are many, as I mentioned at the top of the show, who draw a direct link between his position and decisions about Vietnam, where it's all heading. und seines Tötens. Woher denken Sie, dass JFK an der Frage war, ob er die Kriegskrise an dieser Stelle auslösen kann, genau als er gestorben ist?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
That quote is from an interview with Walter Cronkite, as I understand it, which is three months earlier in September 63. He says, actually, in the final analysis, it is their war. If we withdrew, they are the ones who have to win it or lose it. But I skipped to the next part of the quote, which is, if we withdrew from Vietnam, the communists would control Vietnam pretty soon.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaya would go. I mean, he is as on the fence as the entire nation is. This is the problem for America. As you thrust yourself forward as the superpower we've now become, we're caught in the middle of a lot of stuff. And this is the problem.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Thank you very much for joining us. Oh, I'm pleased to be with you, Don. Counterfactuals, I know, can bother established historians, so thank you for indulging us today.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
I think it really kind of boils down to what would happen in 1965, JFK versus LBJ. You know, that's kind of the moment. Would he have gone the way LBJ does, which is to send in more troops or not, is the question. And it really dates back to 64, the election at that point. You know, once he wins the election, he's going to have more political momentum to do what he needs to do.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Ja, das andere, was ich sagen würde, und das ist ein faszinierendes Teil davon, und es gibt gute Beweise dafür, Don.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
If listeners are waiting for us to talk about the counterfactual of the assassination, that's not what we're on today. We're talking about the counterfactual of JFK and his outlook on Vietnam. Why do you think JFK is such a good subject for counterfactual? I mean, I'll answer my own question.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
A young man still, you know, at that time, still forming opinions, still in a sort of dynamic moment in his life.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Yeah, it's very interesting to imagine that this president, who had been through such a torturous moment with the Cuban Missile Crisis, never mind the Bay of Pigs, as he came into office, sees the futility of all of this. The negotiation is necessary and a relationship with the Soviet Union as opposed to traditional domino theory.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Hindsight is 2020. I mean, we see how it really worked out. Yes, we did develop a, you know, detente under Nixon presidents, you know, who probably learned a lot from how he remembered JFK. All of that happens. We end up with a failure in Vietnam that ends up being a relationship with Vietnam. It's incredibly, we can be very wise looking back at all. Let's talk about JFK himself.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Well, it's very poignant, actually, in the case of JFK, because he was so young. And it's interesting to question what he would have done with the second half of his life, never mind with these critical decisions.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
What was the power of Camelot? Had it been realized already? Where would he have gone had he lived onward?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
For the purpose of this discussion, which is all about Vietnam, let's walk through a bit of the timeline that many Americans, even our listeners, are unfamiliar with or forget about, which is that the American war in Vietnam was really part two of a conflict that had been going on since really the 40s.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Vielen Dank. Untertitelung. BR 2018 Untertitelung. BR 2018
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Das beginnt wirklich von 1946 bis 1954, als Frankreich, die kolonisierende Macht in Vietnam war, die Viet Minh kämpfte, lediglich von Ho Chi Minh, für die Kontrolle von Vietnam. Das ist, wo es beginnt. Können Sie uns durch die echten Headlines an diesem Punkt gehen?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Vielen Dank. Vielen Dank. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 As the film spools forth, the motorcade is seen gliding around the corner, slowly. And the young president, John Kennedy, side by side with his wife in the rear seat of the limousine, bathed in sepia tones, in the last flush of a more hopeful era, smiles and begins to wave. We all know what happened next.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Die Domino-Theorie wurde als der Grund für diesen Stand genannt, den wir dort machen. Ja. Das geht wirklich zurück zu Truman. Vietnam wurde als das Domino gesehen, das fallen würde. Und dann gehen wir nach den Philippinen und so weiter. Und es war wichtig, dass wir unseren Stand hier machen. Faithful, was ist die Unterschiede zwischen Viet Minh und Viet Cong?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
That's really interesting. It's very important to sort of see this in three parts, I guess. You have the French War there and then the American sort of in-between-ness from 1960 onward until really 1965, which is when LBJ commits new troops to this thing and everything gets escalated right through the later part of the 60s into the 70s.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Das ist wirklich wichtig zu verstehen, weil dieses Zeitraum, über das wir sprechen werden, das Konterfaktional, das wir vorgestellt haben, wirklich entscheidet, ob wir gehen oder nicht, basierend auf JFKs Ausdruck von Dingen.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
So what were JFK's views of this issue in real life? In 1951, he goes to Vietnam, doesn't he?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Was ist der eigentliche Grund für diese Reise? Ich meine, er geht da auf eine Faktenfinding-Mission, glaube ich, oder?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
It's pretty extraordinary to think that, especially John Kennedy, a famous war hero from World War II, at this time of supreme American power would have questioned whether or not we could win against a small country like this. How did he find this out? How did he develop this feeling? Were the French failing so badly at that point?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Wir wissen alle, wie sich die Welt an dem Tag verändert hat, wie die Geschichte einen neuen Kurs nach dem anderen und für immer mehr folgte. Aber was, wenn es anders war, an dem tragischen Tag im November 1963? Was, wenn Lee Harvey Oswald verpasst hätte, oder seine Waffe verpasst hätte, oder ein Dutzend andere Möglichkeiten? Was dann? Was, wenn JFK nicht gestorben wäre?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
There are those, even today, who consider Vietnam not the disaster that everyone thinks of it as. That this was a chess game being played and that we contained them one way or the other from spreading onward. Did JFK subscribe to the idea of this strategy or not?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Ich denke, er hat sich zu einem gewissen Grad darauf eingelassen, zumindest für einen Zeitraum.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Ich bin begeistert, dass er einer gewesen wäre, der die Unterschiede zwischen einer Weltkriegs-Zufriedenheit, in der ein ungewöhnliches Zufrieden ist, und dieser Art von Polizistenaktion, die ich vermute, was die amerikanische Militärin gesehen hat, unsere Rolle in der Welt zu werden, mit einer dominanten Theorie, dass wir in kleineren Kriegen anderswo teilnehmen würden und sie nicht selbst bezeichnen würden.
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
So is it fair to say he comes home from this more than month long trip with a negative view of the US presence or possible presence in Vietnam?
American History Hit
What If JFK Wasn't Shot?
Well, he's certainly right about the French. And by 1961, when he is in office, he's faced with that fateful decision over whether or not to go to war in a Southeast Asian country. Falling on the brink of communism. Tell us about Laos. You know, we talk about Vietnam as if it's an isolated thing. We have Laos and Cambodia and all the rest of it. But that really played a role in it, didn't it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Ja, er war erfolgreich. And he comes back and he creates two maps, as I understand, which were sent back to London, but those maps were lost.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
But meanwhile, across the Atlantic, many of their compatriots, who set sail from this very stretch of the Thames over the past two decades, struggle to survive. Numbering barely a thousand, they face constant threats. Reprisals from Native Americans whose land they occupy. Disease bred from a lack of infrastructure. And the ever-present risk of starvation. Musik
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
It's communism pretty much, isn't it? Those maps make it to London or are they just lost into time?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
I'm harping on this only because I want to know, did he understand that he was part, where they were was part of this greater continent, aside from that even went further west or not?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Who were these settlers? They were all men at first. How were they chosen and how did they operate when they got there?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Hallo und willkommen, ich bin Don Wildman und das ist American History Hit. In diesem dritten Episode unserer Jamestown-Serie, schauen wir uns näher an, was es eigentlich war, in Jamestown zu leben. Wer war in Kontrolle? Wie haben sie die Frieden in der Forte behalten können? Und wie haben sie den ever-presenten Herausforderung, eine Arbeitsstätte zu kreieren und dann zu behalten, entschlossen?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
I mean, it was a reasonable thought that they were going to find it.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Ja, sie fanden Leute, die schon das Gold gefunden haben. Ja. Yeah, yeah. But that, again, there are societies at this point, we're very well aware nowadays, huge societies that have gone up through the middle of the nation, what we call the United States today, the Cahokia Mounds and so forth. I mean, really, they weren't that far away from really big civilizations.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Aber hatten sie das gemacht, was die Spanier gemacht haben, brachten ihre Armeen oder was auch immer. Es war eine andere Geschichte.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Ja, genau. Wie viele Siedler waren da zu Beginn? Ich versuche nur, den Skopel der Dinge zu bekommen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Um herauszufinden, bin ich bei Willie Ballerson, Direktor von Leben, Geschichte und historischen Verträgen bei Jamestown Rediscovery. Grüße, Willie. Schön, mit dir zu sein. So glücklich, mit dir zu sein. In den vorigen zwei Episoden haben wir die Geburt von Jamestown besprochen und dann haben wir die Beziehungen mit indigenen Bevölkerungen diskutiert.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
And that's how they make it through that first winter and even the second one.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
It's the third one, the famous starving time, 1609 into 10, right? That's when things are really bad. Before that, I want to understand, when did the women arrive? 1608, as I understand.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
My God. Lord Bacon, a member of the Council for Virginia, states about 1620, this is sometime later, but it's an interesting quote, that when a plantation grows to strength, then it is time to plant with women as well as men, that the plantation may spread into generations and not be forever pieced from without.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Was ich interessant finde, ist das, was wir in Episode 2 besprochen haben, was das Anfang der Idee der Pflanzung war. Die Routen des amerikanischen Südens, was direkt in den 19. Jahrhundert und weiter geht, beginnt wirklich mit Jamestown, mit der Idee, diese agro-faktorische Fabrik zu erschaffen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Wir werden in diesem Episode mehr über die Tag-zu-Tag-Operationen des Places sprechen. Wie haben sie es angefangen? Wie haben sie es gestartet? Und dann, was ist am Ende passiert? This all happens, what I'm talking about, over what period of time exactly?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
I mean, it's very natural. It's the straight line you can draw from feudalism, you know, where you have the town and the market and so forth, all the way through to the plantations of the South, differs from what happens in the North dramatically. It's a fascinating dichotomy of American culture, really, and that which eventually leads to all sorts of trouble.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
But it all kind of has its seeds in this first iteration in Jamestown. You talked about Christopher Newport going back to England. How much back and forth was going on with the home country?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Ja. Aber diese ersten drei Jahre sind die Hölle auf der Erde für diese Menschen. Ich meine, es ist eine furchtbare Erfahrung und führt zu echter Tod und Zerstörung. Und ein Teil davon ist auch die Krankheit allein, großzügig wegen schlechter Wasser, richtig?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Combined with a siege in the winter of 1609 and 10, that leads to the starvation, which of course takes out so many more people. 300 Einwohner wurden in den Fort eingeklemmt, als die Native Amerikaner diese Begegnung gegründet haben. Am Ende des Winters verbrachten sie ihre Schuhe, sie tun alles, was sie können, um zu überleben, insbesondere Kannibalismus.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
And the entity that actually founds it is called the Virginia Company of London, which is chartered under King James I, hence Jamestown. But the existence of this particular enterprise lasts, I guess, from 1607 to 1624. Is that fair?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
So let's talk about the founding of this. Who's in charge of the Virginia Company?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Und das ist berühmt, weil wir hier viele Jahre übergehen. Wir sind jetzt 1619. Das ist das berühmte Anfang der amerikanischen Entschlossene. Das sind die 400 Jahre der Entschlossene in Amerika. Das ist das Anfang. I'm just wanting to underscore the fact that this was not necessarily a system at this point, as far as let's procure this. This has just sort of happened.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
The original deal was, we'll give you these people for food, as I understand, right? That's correct. This was a barter situation.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
And this system, which was a system, had been going on for a hundred years already, down in Central and South America areas in New Spain.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Aber ich sage auch, dass das willkommen war, weil sie diese neue Geldgröße hatten, die sie viel mehr mit einer größeren Arbeitskraft größen konnten. So wurden diese Verschlossenen in die Welt genommen und Teil der Jamestown-Welt geworden.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Sure. I mean, it's the beginning of a horror show that eventually ends up in the American Civil War, 230 years later, and it starts in Jamestown. But circumstances are a little more complicated than it's usually given credit for.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Ja. So many seeds are planted here. You know, the seeds of the Virginia colony soon to come in the timeline, but also the seeds of how this southern way of life will really propagate. And part of that, if you're going to use this feudal system that's been brought over from England, then you need a servant class. You need an enslaved class in this case.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
And that becomes a very good way to make a profit down the road. I'm not putting that on Jamestown necessarily, although that is the beginning of things. But you're right, this becomes a very, very convenient way to make a lot of money.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
dass das ein Alien-Welt ist, in das sie reisen. Sie müssen also eine komfortable Struktur für sich selbst erstellen, die sich an die alten Tage erinnert. Das erste, was passiert, ist, dass sie diese Orte öffnen, als sie angekommen sind. Ein pivoter Moment, wie man es sich vorstellen kann. War es typisch für all diese Art von Unternehmensveranstaltungen mit Spanisch und Deutsch und so weiter?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
In our next episode, we will be covering the downfall of James Downer, or at least the transition, as you corrected me at the beginning, that many people don't understand. So we'll get to that, but I just want to cap this off by explaining where you come from, Willie, and where people can find out more about what we just talked about.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Amazing. That's the rediscovery of Jamestown. That's literally the name, isn't it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
But we have one more episode to do, and we'll cover the last part of the Jamestown story. Thank you, Willie Baldwin. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much, Don. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
I'm going to run through the names just because I have them written down. Bartholomew Gosnold, Christopher Newport, John Martin, John Ratcliffe, George Kendall and John Smith, the famous John Smith. This was the initial council, which they would have read about in these orders, right? Correct.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Interestingly, the first representative assembly in English North America, isn't it, that convenes in Jamestown?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Es war eine Art, den Kronen auch zu schützen, war es nicht? Wenn man diese kommerzielle Entität kreiert, wenn es falsch geht, ist es ihre Schuld und die Verkäufer werden ihr Geld verlieren, aber es reflektiert nicht schlecht oder kostet dem Kronen mehr Geld.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
The language, as I understand it, in these orders reads, Pretty straightforward. So this council of five or six, five gentlemen and one, basically they're going to make all the rules for the foreseen future. There's no one exactly in charge. There's no president of the council.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
London in the 1620s is expanding at an extraordinary pace. With a population surpassing 200,000 at the turn of the century, the city's houses are linked not only by roads, but by elm-piped water mains and licensed hackney carriages, early predecessors to modern taxis. London's streets teem with a diverse mix of people from across the British Isles and beyond.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Ist das primär wegen seines militärischen Präzises? Sind sie hier für Probleme angekommen?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
John Smith, so ein berühmter Name, natürlich für die Pocahontas-Legenden, wirklich der Mythos von John Smith, aber er nimmt den Helm auf, dieses Gebiet zu entdecken und es auszumappen, richtig?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
Was he well known as an adventurer before they left for Jamestown?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
While the poor crowd into makeshift dwellings built wherever space allows, the wealthy move through the city in French-tailored clothing of indigo-dyed fabrics and silk stockings. Their meals are seasoned with pepper, imported by the East India Company, arriving at the docks in Blackwall.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Surviving The Fort
The ultimate twist at the end. They could not have been happy about this. They were probably very happy to set him off into the woods alone and go map this river.
American History Hit
Outlaws vs the FBI: J. Edgar Hoover's G-Men
At PwC we don't just deliver ideas, we make them work. With the expertise and tech you need to outthink and outperform. And we work with you, alongside you, from start to finish. So you can stay ahead, so you can protect what you built, so you can create new value. We build for what's next, so you can get there now. PwC, so you can.
American History Hit
Outlaws vs the FBI: J. Edgar Hoover's G-Men
PwC refers to the PwC network and all one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity.
American History Hit
Outlaws vs the FBI: J. Edgar Hoover's G-Men
So you can. PwC refers to the PwC network and or one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity.
American History Hit
Outlaws vs the FBI: J. Edgar Hoover's G-Men
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American History Hit
Outlaws vs the FBI: J. Edgar Hoover's G-Men
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American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
I'll be back with more American History after this short break.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
It's another issue, but it's worth pointing out that Boston understood themselves to be a very autonomous place. Absolutely. They've been allowed this status in the British Empire to do things as they wish to do. And so all those taxes and all the acts inflicted upon them are a violation of that in their minds.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
And so that's where a lot of this stuff boils up from and reveres one of those who resents them a great deal. So it's fair to say that the ride is not an act of war. It's not part of that decision and strategy at all.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Saddled on the back of that horse, riding his way into legends and our history books, was none other than Paul Revere. Musik Welcome to American History Hit. I'm Don Wildman. Great to have you here. The year is 1775. In England, the Industrial Revolution has begun to rumble. Adam Smith is writing his economic treatise, The Wealth of Nations, while James Watt redesigns the steam engine.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Now we're at this big moment when two lanterns are involved in this. Revere has rode himself across the Charleston Harbor. He's awaiting the signal, which will come from the steeple of the North End Church, which is really tall in those days. You really would see it from a long ways away.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Ja, und auch heute, wenn du da hoch gehst, ich bin da schon da, ist es eine Perspektive über alles. Es betrifft diesen Mann namens Joseph Warren. Wie hat er sich in diesen Plan eingeführt?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
So there seems some real circumstantial evidence that she was involved. Wow. So Warren is not the man who hangs these lanterns. The sexton of the church, Robert Newman, the vestryman John Pulling, I understand, who hang those lanterns according to the intelligence that Warren has received. Yeah. At which point we really begin the ride. Right. Was ist die Bedeutung von William Dawes?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Er ist der andere, der auf Lande geht, glaube ich.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Interesting. In the telling of this tale, poetically, it's the British are coming, the British are coming. Of course, that's not the case, because he wouldn't be saying that, because he himself was a faithful Britishman at that point. What was he doing as he rode on?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Over in Vienna, an astonishing 19-year-old genius named Mozart has already cranked out his first 30 symphonies. King George III sees his British Empire expanding into the Pacific. Captain James Cook is lauded for adding Australia and New Zealand to the colonized jewels. However, here in North America there is terrible unrest, and not just the revolutionary kind.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Much of this is known because of Revere's own description. He wrote his own account of this, but not until 1798. And he does it to someone named Jeremy Belknick. And that's important to note that Revere wasn't into this. He becomes famous despite himself. He's not trying for this celebrity. It's really the poem that shapes this whole thing as a bigger part of the story than it really was.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
But it's worth talking about because it has a very interesting side to it itself. The poet that we're talking about is Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, who was a major writer in those days, and we're talking about the 1860s at this point. 1850s, 1860s, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Can you describe this guy? He'd written big poems. He was one of these epic poem writers.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
He lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts, of course, and in the house that George Washington used as headquarters in the Revolutionary Wars at the time. He is a major abolitionist. He's living the life of these Bostonians in the antebellum years coming up to the Civil War.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
A smallpox epidemic has taken hold that will last for seven years, killing upwards of 130,000 colonists and native peoples. It's salt in the wound for those unhappy Americans tilting towards a rebellion the British authorities are determined to crush. In these fateful days, a man and his horse will make history of legendary proportions.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Er hatte einen Freund, der auf die Belltower der alten Nordkirche ging. Ja. Where the lanterns were lit. And that was part of the inspiration for this desire to write the poem. Yeah, yeah.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Als Historiker fühlst du dich, dass die Tage, bevor die Geschichte wirklich verpackt und erzählt wurde, auf irgendeine Art von Routinenbasis, Es ist so ein interessanter Zeitpunkt. Es ist wirklich so ein witziger Zeitpunkt, wie diese Geschichten erinnert werden werden. Ja, absolut.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Historische Erinnerung ist ein Begriff, den ich nicht lange hervorragend gelernt habe. Das ist ein faszinierender Teil dieses Buches. John Browns Raid on Harpers Ferry figures in the timing of this poem being written. First, let's very briefly explain the Raid on Harpers Ferry. John Brown was a very radical abolitionist. He would have known Longfellow, I suppose.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Happened at the outbreak of the war in the wee hours of a Boston night. It is the story of the midnight ride of Paul Revere. Who was Paul Revere? And what was his real role in the rebellion? And why did the story of his determined gallop, forgotten for more than a century after it happened, suddenly take hold in the American imagination when the nation stood on the brink of another terrible trial?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
And he takes a measure, he takes a step in the process of, you know, he wants to create a war. And it's a bridge too far for most people like Longfellow.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Das ist ein wirklich interessanter Teil davon und spricht zum historischen Erinnerungsaspekt dieser ganzen Diskussion. Du hast den Süden, der die Revolution als ihre eigene, als die Ursprünge ihrer eigenen Revolution gegen den Norden. Whereas the North is embracing it as that declaration, all men are created equal, all that.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
So it's really all of the discussion prior to the Civil War and during it somewhat is rooted in this idea of the American Revolution.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Hat Longfellows Poesie den Effekt, den er geplant hatte? Hört es sich an?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Our guest and guide today is Michael Haddam, historian of the American Revolution and author of The Memory of 76, The Revolution in American History, published by Yale University in 2024. Welcome, sir. Welcome, Michael. Hi. Thank you, Don. I'm glad to be here. I feel like I should speak in iambic pentameter whenever I speak of Paul Revere.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Right. So the poem, not unlike a hit song, gets the idea of the revolution out into the zeitgeist at a time when someone like a Longfellow would think it was appropriate. We need to think back to where we come from in the middle of this Civil War tension that's happening or this oncoming tension that's happening. Yeah. Does he see a parallel exactly between John Brown and Bollinger?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Es ist das Tindern des Feuers, das in dieser Nation überflutet wird. Und in der gleichen Weise hat Revere diesen Effekt auf den Boston-Welt. Ja. Er hat all das auch angefangen. Was denkst du, ist das Legacy dieses Poems und wirklich Reveres Reise im Allgemeinen?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Longfellows Poem was the first I ever learned as a child in grade school. And that was the point, wasn't it? It was a heroic tale told in a joyful way.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
This is a big theme. And we can end on this question, really. The sense of America as looking backward, you know, the embrace that we are constantly doing of the revolution, especially. Das ist in Frage. Ich meine, sicherlich kommt dieses Jahr, 250 wird kommen. Es ist ein großer Deal, dass wir 250 beherrschen.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Aber es gibt einige von uns, die sagen, das ist die falsche Art, wie Amerika aussehen sollte. Es sollte vorwärts schauen. Es wurde als ein Land entwickelt, das radikal sein sollte und vorwärts gehen sollte, anstatt immer seine Vergangenheit zu beherrschen. Ja. Ich meine, sprichst du von Paul Revere, der berühmte Poem scheint in diesem Kontext zu sein.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Michael Haddam ist an Yale University und der Autor eines wichtigen Buches an diesem Thema, sicherlich in den kommenden Jahren. The Memory of 76, The Revolution in American History, veröffentlicht von Yale University 2024. Vielen Dank, Michael, das ist so interessant. Danke, dass ich da war, Don. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Es war Teil meines Kompositionbuches, ich glaube, im 2. oder 3. Jahrhundert. Und du hattest zu kopieren, was dir gefällt. Und natürlich war Paul Revere's Midnight Ride großartig.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Genau. Und diese Gespräche, um klar zu sein, geht darum, wie real dieses Event war, als opposed to its legendary myth. Und wie es wirklich in der Strategie der frühen Tage gespielt hat. Es ist ein Setting the Table für die Kriege von Lexington und Concord, natürlich, die wir in einem vorherigen Episode dieser Serie beobachten. Ich bitte Sie, das zu hören.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Wir machen auch noch ein anderes Episode über Sam Adams, mit dem Paul Revere in den modernen Tagen sehr verwirrt ist. But he was so much a part of what was happening in New England at that time, so much of the early revolutionary movement. It seems like a crime that he's most remembered for a horse ride. Let's talk about the real Paul Revere. Where does he come from?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
What's his place in the world when he's an early one?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Es ist der 18. April 1775, die Nacht bevor der Krieg in Lexington und Concord, die Nacht bevor der Schuss um die Welt gehört wurde. In Boston, die schwarze Gruppe eines britischen Mannes der Krieg, fliegt in den Meer. Seine Masken und Sparren sind gegen den Mond ausgezeichnet. Während sie auf dem Meer sind, kann man Geräusche hinter den Wäldern der Barracks hören.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Das ist interessant. Das ist eine Gespräche, die ich wirklich nie in Detail gehabt habe. Aber der Fakt ist, ich meine, es wird immer mit Neu-Amsterdam gesprochen, natürlich mit den Deutschen und ihrem Einbruch der Immigration und all den verschiedenen Arten von Menschen, die dort gefunden wurden. Aber das war wahr in den Kolonien, war es nicht?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Revere was one of twelve kids, remarkable in and of itself. The father is a silversmith, and he gets simple schooling. He goes on and serves in the French-Indian War. I'm crossing lots of territory here. Yeah. He's one of those like George Washington and so many others who served faithfully in that war in the 1750s.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
He returns to Boston and starts his own silversmithing business, becomes a respected artisan, successful businessman. He does a lot more than make pictures. He's an engraver and political cartoonist. How old is he when politics enters the picture for him?
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
He belongs to a group called the North End Caucus. A lot of that neighborhood, I've done a lot up there in television world and it had so much to do with the tunnels and the smuggling and all the sort of underworld activities that were happening up there. I guess he was a part of that.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Britische Reguliere sind auf dem Weg, und die Leute von Boston, die guten Söhne der Freiheit, sind auf sie. Ein Hecht fährt sich von der Nordseerseite ab, galt durch die Nacht, um einen Marsch zu stehlen. Wenn die Soldaten in Lexington ankommen, als die Sonne beginnt zu steigen, werden sie eine Überraschung finden, die für sie wartet. This midnight ride is the stuff of poetry.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Er ist auch Teil der Tea Party und so weiter. Er ist ein richtiger radikaler Revolutionär, würde ich sagen. Und er macht diese Warnreise als Teil dieses Kommunikationsnetzwerks. Zuerst in New Hampshire, um die britischen Munitionen zu warnen. Er ist Teil dieses gesamten Kommittees. Und die Reise kommt aus dem Nichts.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
In anderen Worten, es ist ein großer Teil seines Lebens, dieses Art von Ding zu machen.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
These early revolutionary events are so fabulized now. They've just become so much a sort of movie scene in all of our minds. And They really were very dangerous days. You were dealing with a really determined effort on part of the British to snuff this out.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
And these marches on these small communities to find these munitions depots basically were somewhat regular, but that was really what the British were up to as far as figuring out a way to stop this before it starts.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Es gab ein ganzes Intelligenznetz. Das war das, was mit den Söhnen der Freiheit ging. Sie kommunizierten mit einander, was in der Landwirtschaft passiert war, durch ihr Netzwerk. Und das führt zu der großen Reise, die, wie wir erklären, nicht unbedingt anders war als die anderen Reisen, die er machte. Es war nur der Fakt, dass sie zu einem nahen Ort gehen.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
A hurry of hoofs in a village street. A shape in the moonlight. A bulk in the dark. And beneath from the pebbles in passing a spark. Struck out by a steed flying fearless in fleet. That was all. And yet, through the gloom and the light, the fate of a nation was riding that night. And the spark struck out by that steed in his flight kindled the land into flame with its heat.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Und sie hatten diese militärische Antwort auf diesen Punkt entwickelt. in der Landwirtschaft. Das führt also zu der Verbrechung, die so berühmt wird. Ja. Der Tag ist April 18th, 1775. Lass uns durch die Schritte gehen, sowohl in der Fable als auch in der Realität. Und du erzählst mir, wo die beiden korrekt auftreten. Die Chronologie ist, dass er an dieser Nacht fahren wird.
American History Hit
The Truth About Paul Revere's Ride
Have they decided to fight back? And was this a strategic decision on their part? Or was this never meant to be more than a show of force?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
I never thought of Blitzkrieg, the pace of the German attack, certainly on Western Europe, as being motivated by keeping the United States out. If we did this quickly enough, the United States won't join this war. Is that truth or not?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
In Iowa, Hawaii, Oregon, im Pazifik, überall auf der Welt, werden seine Worte verwendet und zu einem beschlossenen Paris, zu faschistischer Italien und kommunistischer Russland verwendet. But above all, the signal reaches Nazi Germany and the Führer's own radio set, where Hitler himself would hear FDR's grim declaration.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Let's bring FDR in here. One of the most remarkable coincidences of history, I suppose, I don't know, is the fact that FDR's career and Hitler's career are perfect images. They reflect each other perfectly in that they both come to power at the same time in 1933 and they both die in the same year in 1945. It's an incredible story. You can't write this kind of stuff.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
There is a really well-known article that was written by a guy named Gerald Johnson called From the Atlantic, 1941. Let me just read a quote from that. There was a period of approximately 24 hours in the year 1933 more fateful for the destiny of mankind than any other one day in the century.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
A little afternoon on March 4th in 1933, Franklin D. Roosevelt was inaugurated as President of the United States before midnight on March 5th, 1933. That's how close we're talking about, March 5th and March 4th. Der deutsche Reichstag hat das Enabling-Akt verabschiedet, das absolute Macht in die Hände von Chancellor Adolf Hitler zu stellen.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
So much of this is about the economic contrast between these two countries. I mean, the US going through the roaring 20s would have been a global story. I mean, headlines about skyscrapers, the Empire State Building eventually going up and so forth. I mean, it's a big time that decade in the United States.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Meanwhile, Germany is suffering terribly, largely because of the Treaty of Versailles and all the reparations that are going on there. Diese beiden Dinge sind Seite für Seite. Mittlerweile steigt der Kommunismus, wie du es erwähnt hast, im Osten mit der Sowjetunion. Revolution 1917, das ist alles durch die selbe Dekade.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Das ist ein direkter Threat für beide Länder, sicherlich mehr sofort für Deutschland, aber der Wachstum der Unionen und so weiter in den Vereinigten Staaten ist auch ein großer Teil der Geschichte von Roosevelt. Er muss all das in Ordnung halten.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
War er gezwungen, die Olympiade zu besuchen? Ich meine, das war so ein großer Deal. 1936, die Berliner Olympiade, so ein Ausdruck für das Nazi-Gewerbe. FDR hat sich nicht daran erinnert?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
So, we've mentioned several times a famous oration that FDR gives in Chicago. It's called the Quarantine Speech, 1937. So we're pushing on here towards World War II. He says, the time will come when America must act. I'm going to read an excerpt from this thing. Imagine this is FDR speaking, which I can't do. It goes like this, quote.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
We foresee a time when men, exultant in the technique of homicide, will rage so hotly over the world that every precious thing will be in danger, every book and picture and harmony, every treasure garnered through two millenniums, the small, the delicate, the defenseless, all will be lost or wrecked or utterly destroyed.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
If those things come to pass in other parts of the world, let no one imagine that America may expect mercy, that this western hemisphere will not be attacked and that it will continue tranquilly and peacefully to carry on the ethics and the arts of civilization. This is his warning shot across the bow. There is a war coming and we have a role to play.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
There is a video that everyone must look up, which is Hitler ridiculing FDR in front of, I guess it's the Reichstag, right? Is that where he's speaking? You have all these military uniforms behind him, you've got all this huge crowd in front of him, and he literally goes through a routine. He names off all the places that FDR in his quarantine speech has warned Germany not to take over.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
And he lists the entire thing. It's a comedy bit in which he rouses this audience into laughter and applause because he's just dismissing everything that has been warned to him through FDR. That's how present FDR was in Hitler's mind at this moment.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Aber, wie wir vorher bestätigt haben, weiß er die Gefahr, die Amerika in diesem Szenario präsentiert. Deshalb frage ich über den Blitzkrieg, die Erstellung dieser Idee, wie schnell und mechanisiert diese Krieg sein wird. Wie bewusst waren sie, dass es so sein musste? Weil sonst geht Amerika direkt rein und wir haben nicht genug Land genommen.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Roosevelt means to be utterly clear. There was not a world in which the United States and the Third Reich could possibly coexist. One of them was bound to go. Musik Nice to be with you. Thanks for clicking through. This is American History Hit and I'm Don Wildman. World War II destroyed so much and killed so many. It would seem to be fiction if the facts weren't so real.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
FDR wird das Symbol dieses insidieren Weltkonspirasys, das gegen ihn gespürt wird.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Ja, sehr dramatisch. Also, die FDR spricht mit dem amerikanischen Publikum in den Fireside-Chats über die 1930er-Jahre, um sie über den Neuen Deal und so weiter zu informieren. Als wir weiter in die 1940er-Jahre gehen, wird es um den Zweiten Weltkrieg.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Und im Mai 1941, jetzt sind wir sechs Monate aus Pearl Harbor an diesem Punkt, sagt er in diesem Fireside-Chat, «Nicht vorher, seit Jamestown und Plymouth Rock, hat unsere amerikanische Zivilisation in so viel Gefahr wie jetzt.» Ich meine, es wird nicht klarer als das.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Die Nazi-Meister von Deutschland haben es klar gemacht, dass sie nicht nur die ganze Leben und Gedanken in ihrem eigenen Land dominieren wollen, sondern auch die ganze Europa beschlüsseln und dann die Ressourcen Europas nutzen, um die Rest der Welt zu dominieren. Es war nur drei Wochen vor, als ihr Leiter sagte, dass es zwei Welten gibt, die sich in Opposition zu einander befinden.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
And then in defiant reply to his opponents, he said this. Others are correct when they say, with this world we cannot ever reconcile ourselves. I can beat any other power in the world. So said the Nazi leader. This is Franklin Roosevelt just sort of laying down the gauntlet. We have to not only help in this war, but prepare to be involved. Exactly.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Its leaders are like characters drawn from graphic novels. Adolf Hitler, the evil tyrant obsessed with world domination, bent on revenge for his nation's previous humiliation. Or was it his own? Und weit weg auf der anderen Seite des Atlantiks, sein Gegner Franklin Roosevelt, ein Mann, der von towering Privilege geboren wurde, wurde von Krankheit gestorben.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
At PwC we don't just deliver ideas, we make them work. With the expertise and tech you need to outthink and outperform. And we work with you, alongside you, from start to finish. So you can stay ahead. So you can protect what you built. So you can create new value. We build for what's next. So you can get there now. PwC. So you can.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
PwC refers to the PwC network and all one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
So, this is so interesting. This is this critical tipping point. Pearl Harbor happens on December 7th, 1941. War between the US and Japan, that is definite. That's going to happen. But the USA and Germany don't go to war until December 11th, when Hitler declares it. So, it seems so inevitable now, but if you'd been FDR in those four days, everything was still in the balance.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Seine Beine sind nun geschliffen, er verkleidet seine innerliche Agonie mit einem bon vivant Exterieur. Diese zwei Männer, polare Gegenteile in jeder Weise, haben sich nie getroffen. Aber die furchtbare Intersektion ihrer Leben und Ausgleiche und die wahren Länder, die sie repräsentierten, haben die Furcht der menschlichen Zivilisation in den 1940er-Jahren und weiterentwickelt.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
But you're saying something that I think most people would find surprising. Germany knows nothing about Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor. This was as big a surprise to them as it was to the Americans.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Tja, dunkle Tage. Ich meine, man muss sich daran erinnern, wie schlimm es im ersten Dezember 1941 aussah. Die Deutschen besitzen fast alle Westeuropäer. The Japanese have taken out our Navy in Honolulu. It's an incredible stacked deck against the Allied forces. December 11th, 1941, Hitler declares war. Just a few days. I mean, you're talking about this period of time that's pretty short.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
But what has informed his decision is all of what you just talked about. This is going to be an advantage for Germans in the end. Japan's going to tie them down out there. It looks like a pretty good fight for him.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Für das sind wir heute mit einem Freund des Shows, Charlie Lederman. Charlie Lederman ist ein Senior Lecturer in International History at King's College London. We discussed Woodrow Wilson and the Treaty of Versailles in a previous episode. Check the archive. Charlie is the co-author of Hitler's American Gamble, all about the days between Pearl Harbor and Germany's declaration of war on the US.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
It plays to his advantage, FDR's advantage. The declaration of war by Hitler was actually helped FDR in his efforts, strategically anyway. I mean, not a good day, but definitely it helps him articulate and master the forces within his own country to create this war effort.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
It's so incredible that these two foes in all these years before never met, never communicated directly. As you call it, a rhetorical battle was fought before, even before the war. But that's an amazing fact, isn't it? That for all these years, these two men never shook hands, never saw each other, never talked through interpreters, however. And now we're at war. It's not going to happen.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Hello, Charlie. Welcome back to the show. Thanks, Don. It's a pleasure to be back with you. Let's start with Hitler and back to his beginnings in the 1920s. How did America help shape his ideology, the worldview he was shaping for himself coming out of that war?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Wir haben diesen unglaublich stressigen Krieg, der getroffen wird, und der Stress nimmt seinen Wert auf beide Männer. Wie viel hat sich ihre Bewusstsein für einander verändert während dieser Krieg? Haben sie gesehen, wie viel Wert es aneinander nahm?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Vier Jahre später. FDR wird am 12. April sterben. Wochen später, in seinem Suizidnotiz, geschrieben am 29. April 1945, kommt Hitler zurück in Amerika, lamentierend, dass die Krieg geschehen ist, und blamiert Staatsanwälte, die entweder jüdisch waren oder für jüdische Interessen gearbeitet haben. Ich meine, blamiert er FDR für alles hier?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Well, we did it with bases. We stuck a bunch of bases there. And that's how the 20th century played out, along with a wall right down the middle of Berlin. What a fascinating period of time you've identified with this book. It's called Hitler's American Gamble. Charlie is the co-author of this book.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Really important to understand that there was this tipping point that came with the declaration of war from Germany on to America. It was an incredible question that you're addressing. Thank you so much, Charlie. It's been nice to meet you again. We'll see you in the future. I hope so. It's been a pleasure, Don. Hello folks, thanks for listening to American History Hit.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Each week we release new episodes. Two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content like mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
And while you're at it, share with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Thanks so much.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
At PwC we don't just deliver ideas, we make them work. With the expertise and tech you need to outthink and outperform. And we work with you, alongside you, from start to finish. So you can stay ahead. So you can protect what you built. So you can create new value. We build for what's next. So you can get there now. PwC. So you can.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
PwC refers to the PwC network and all one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
So you can. PwC refers to the PwC network and all one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
I want to pluck out a few details of what you said there, which is really worth underscoring. At this point, and we're talking about the 1920s, for a good 50 years, Germans have been emigrating to the United States and have taken hold of that culture in so many ways, not least of which is beer. The introduction of Pilsner Beer was all German. That's why you have the Budweisers.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
All these different brand names that we live with today are the result, the legacy of this German immigration to the United States. Technology, etc. Everything that was happening and booming in the 19th century in Germany has now transferred.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Und natürlich haben Generationen darüber gehört, seitdem, sicherlich Hitler's Generation, wie erfolgreich diese Welt da ist, die Ressourcen, die vorhanden sind. Also muss man glauben, dass dieser Mann jetzt gegen diese amerikanischen Truppen kämpft, mit einem großen Teil von Gefühlen, was auch immer das Gefühl ist.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Resentment vielleicht, dass diese ganze Nation, die so prosperiert ist, mit den Leuten, die von ihrem eigenen Land hergekommen sind, viel zu tun hat.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Die rassistische Ideologie, wie er es in Mein Kampf bezeichnet, wie viel von den Jim Crow-Lagen und der Bezug auf die rassistische Segregation in den Vereinigten Staaten war etwas, auf das er seine Meinung für Deutschland modellierte. Ich meine, seine ganze antisemitische Sache auch. Viele davon basiert auf dem, was er in den Vereinigten Staaten in Aktion sieht. Das ist verrückt.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Eine geografische Sache, die so interessant ist, ist, dass Deutschland bis jetzt unifiziert ist. Ich meine, es gab keine Deutschland, die sich vor den Mitte der 1800er-Jahre befand. Sie hat sich unifiziert, wie Italien, von einer Art Stadt-Stadt-Kreis-Welt zu einer eigenen Nation. Dies ist größtenteils durch den Erfolg der Vereinigten Staaten geführt.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Wir sind in der White House, Dezember 1940. Die diplomatische Rekordrunde klingelt mit Aktivität. Die Männer sind auf Türen positioniert, die mit rumpelndem Radio-Equipment befestigt sind. Es klingelt und klingelt. Es klingelt und klingelt. Am Zentrum der Aktivität ist Präsident Franklin Roosevelt, am Ease hinter einem Tisch, vor dem Kurs.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Diese anderen europäischen Länder sehen, was passiert, wenn man alle diese Staaten zusammenkonfederiert, wenn man sie alle zusammenbringt. You end up with a larger country that can share its resources. These different kingdoms can share their resources. That's what Germany has sort of done. They did it peacefully, whereas we have this huge war over it.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
But anyway, he understands that America is the primary foe that is going to have to be defeated or Germany will be in subjugation forever. Fair to say?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
This is the mindset of a man who throughout the 20s and into the 30s, he is creating this worldview and then putting it into action, you know, through his joining eventually the Nazi Party, which already exists before he comes along. He takes this up. I'm always wondering whether the gasoline of his engine was his hatred for the United States.
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Besonders als wir in die Depression hineingehen, weil viele in der Welt das als die Schuld der Vereinigten Staaten sahen, dass wir den ganzen Boden ausfallen lassen. Hält er das gleiche Gefühl?
American History Hit
FDR vs Hitler
Einen Moment später klingelt der Raum, als der FDR spricht. Seine Worte werden von den Mikrofonen, die sich vor ihm befinden, gefiltert und mit Kabeln ausgeführt, in eine Welt, die weit weg ist, die seine Botschaft erwartet.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
The Rio Grande River was recognized as a major stretch of America's southern border with Mexico, and Mexican claims on parts of Texas were relinquished. Manifest destiny was essentially made manifest by the Guadalupe Hidalgo Treaty, which ended that war. The United States of America would now officially stretch from sea to shining sea.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
It really breaks down to all these different eras, as you say, 1920-ish. You've got this Redwood pipeline being laid by this New York architect. So much of this is really the story of any American metropolitan area being eventually built. It all starts with water and they create these things based on each other's models. And New York really started it.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
What is today 27 reservoirs in the Catskills started as the Croton Reservoir where I live just north of New York. And these engineers were dispatched across the country to create this stuff. How much was this related to John Wesley Powell's initial journey down the Colorado and his view of how water would be distributed?
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
This vast territorial annexation was obviously a boon to national pride and economic potential. It was now a realistic option for any American with horse and wagon to go further west and not just to Oregon. But this presented huge challenges as well, heightening divisive national issues having to do with enslavement, state and federal jurisdictions, and the rights of indigenous peoples.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Early in my career on television, I did a show about a dude ranch. It was just me out there lassoing things, but it happened on a ranch in, I believe it was New Mexico, where I really liked the guy that I was working with, this Anglo man who was a multi-generational rancher there. And I asked him in a sort of idle moment, how big is his ranch? Where's it reached to?
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Thinking I was pointing out to it. He says, oh, it goes 27 miles down that way. I said, 27 miles? And I said, how often do you even see it? He says, oh, very rarely. But that was how land was distributed out there, you know, and those families that took control of so much, you know, certainly around those urban areas had these vast swaths of land.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
It was not unlike the way the Dutch did it with New York. You know, you just gave these rich people this whole thing and off you went.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
But we're talking like two Anglos here.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
The truth is, and much of your book is concerned with it, to your credit, the indigenous history that went before, you know, which was intruded upon by the Spanish at first. Let's talk about those cultures and start around where you grew up, which is where the book begins with Albuquerque and the Pueblo Indians that existed there. Let's talk about how they survived in this arid culture.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
No less complicated was the practical consideration of how these new regions would be settled, when so much of them were made of dreadfully arid lands and parched deserts. Somehow, someway, they would be settled, making a deep and continuing impact on American culture, altering the nation forever.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Journalist Kyle Paoletta has authored a brand new book on the subject entitled American Oasis, and tracks the historical, cultural, political, and economic impact of this dry, dusty, yet vibrantly populated realm we call the American Southwest. Hello, Kyle. Welcome to American History Hit. Thanks so much. Great to be with you. A vast subject matter to take on, the American Southwest.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
It was never as easy as they say.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
I want to take this opportunity to remind people we're talking about the American Oasis book that is written by this man, Kyle Paletta. And it is such an effective way to introduce yourself to all of this history because you're doing it through his voice. And it's a really interesting, complex journey you're on.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
But as you're listening to this conversation, understand that this history is absolutely essential to understanding the identity of this vast amount of our world, which now we boil down to a border war.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
We just hear about it through very, very sensationalistic terms, politicized terms, when in fact the history is very, very layered and very, very organic to that area based on the struggle that it takes to live in that area, as demonstrated by everybody who's ever arrived there. It's a really fascinating story all told through your book.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
And that's, I just really want to plug it because it really is helpful to start with that kind of thing for not familiar with the complexities of all the native tribes and so forth that go on there. Why were the Spanish, I've always wondered this, why were the Spanish so determined to make this incursion? What were they heading towards? What was the objective?
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
But you grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so this is a personal mission for you, I suppose. What prompted this book?
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
I mean, it's a metaphor you can carry right through to Arizona highways, which always had those sort of Kodachrome kind of glowy pictures of Arizona. I mean, it's a beautiful place. And so they weren't lying, but it really has been what has been traded on is this mythical land of enchantment in case of New Mexico. But further on, you've just continued light happens all over the place there.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
And people come home telling these stories about that. That probably happened with those Spanish.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
All these chapters of yours, parts of the book, all kind of overlap, which is what's so fascinating. It's such a huge area that we're talking about. And yet the struggles to create those societies by indigenous peoples and then those who have incurred upon them right up into modern times are very related, certainly because the water sources are related. most famously now for the Colorado River.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
There's only so much water available and it's going away fast. And this is certainly the case with Las Vegas and Lake Mead, which that lowering level of Lake Mead has now become the metaphor for the success or failure of this reclamation, the so-called reclamation in the American Southwest.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Las Vegas, I mean, the famous tunnels underneath of Las Vegas are actually part of an incredible system. I mean, that entire city is ringed by mountains. And so the whole thing is one big basin. And so the entire city has the largest, I believe, underground tunnel system for capturing the water that comes once a year in that Rainy season.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
And it all gets returned, as you say, or sent to Lake Mead, which is a major source of the water there. But still, it's a struggle. It is a modern journey through your book married with the historical account of how these places came to pass. And that's why you need to get this book. I've never plugged a book so aggressively as this.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
American Oasis, I think it's really important because we are entering into a period and a new presidency where the Southwest is going to get renewed attention, largely negative because they use this immigrant problem as a huge political tool, when in fact the history is a much, much more layered and importantly cultivated subject.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
So you can't really address what's happening in the American Southwest without understanding the history behind it. And this is a great way of doing it. Kyle Paoletta is a journalist reporting in the New York Times, Harper's, New York Magazine, The Nation, the Columbia Journalism Review. Kyle previously worked at GQ and New York Magazine.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
He grew up, as we've covered here, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and now lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where he is consistently surprised at how little people know of the American Southwest. Well, that will change as they all read your book, Kyle. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you, Don. This has been really fun. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
For more than a thousand years, each time it came back, its waters were welcomed, coaxed through hand-dug irrigation canals, turning the desert green. Then new voices were heard along its banks. Spanish missionaries, planting wooden crosses along its way. Later came ranchers, then railroads, dreams demanding more and more water.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
In the life-giving rivers of the American Southwest, history runs deep. The Salt River winds through the heart of the desert, cradled by jagged mountains, burning gold at dawn, turning violet at night. Under a sky as wide as forever, and a sun that won't give up, it is a river that comes and goes. It floods, it dries, but it always returns.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Yeah, right. The book is framed sort of as a journey written in the first person, which is your voice, all around the different basic major regions around these major cities, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Albuquerque, El Paso. And you take us through this sort of both historic, but also anecdotal, experiential exploration of the area, which is so interesting and very, very detailed.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Let's start with the ideas of the Southwest. I mean, human settlement, of course, whenever that happens, is first about finding a source of water, really. And this is especially true of the American Southwest, a region, as I mentioned in the opening, hugely desert, hugely arid anyway. Let's first talk about the development of Phoenix, Arizona, which is sort of jumping into the middle of your book.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
the fifth largest metropolitan area in the country, how would there ever be enough water to supply a city of 5 million people there?
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
But even the name speaks to the Anglo-centric view that I am guilty of being an Anglo person from the East Coast. of thinking of the Southwest and certainly Phoenix area as being this thing that needs to be rescued, that needs to be brought life to. When that's exactly what the Spanish, the explorers who came in in the 1500s and so forth also felt that way. But in fact-
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Of course, there had been an indigenous culture there, as you're speaking to, that had a very complex irrigation-driven agricultural society built. Sparsely, it wasn't a huge population, but there were a lot of cities built along those rivers and rivers. In those irrigation ways, we're creating these sustainable cultures.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
That is so much a part of this story that you're educating us through this book about undoing this preconception of the idea that every certain white person who's ever come into that area thinks of it as being something that needs to be brought back to life.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Well, we're turning it to Eden, which is so much a part of the American mythology. You know, we will come and bring this back to the original form it was. Let's talk about some events that happened to create that. From 1950, Phoenix expands from 100,000 people to what we now have is 5 million people. It's 265 times the original footprint.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
I mean, there are some really amazing, I have to say, engineering feats that go into creating this. A lot of this happens around the time of Theodore Roosevelt, but really it starts right after the Civil War. A guy named Jack Swilling arrives and creates a canal company, the Swilling Irrigation Canal Company, taking water from, as you say, the Salt River. Can you step us through this process?
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
It goes almost 50 years to create the basics of this whole water system.
American History Hit
How to Survive the Desert: Cities of the Southwest
Welcome back to American History Hit. Glad you could join us. I'm Don Wildman. In 1848, after victory in the Mexican-American War, the United States grew its landmass by about a third, some 525,000 square miles, a gigantic geography. that would go on to become the states of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, even some of Wyoming.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
As he steadies his gaze into the blinding lights and hulking TV cameras, Ike prepares to take aim at an unanticipated target. An insidious enemy, to be sure, but one that's growing Within the US Government. Greetings listeners, glad you're with us from either side of the Atlantic or elsewhere. This is American History Hit and I'm Don Wildman.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Also er hat Taft in der Konvention gewonnen, also das war in der Partei gearbeitet. Dann gewinnt er in einem Landslide gegen Adlai Stevenson, der wieder verlieren wird und der nächste auch, aber... He's really taken power at this point with a big mandate. This is the return of the Republican Party to Washington, D.C. You know, shades of what's happening today in many ways.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
But I want to mark this moment just to say, before he gets the presidency, interestingly, he was the president of Columbia University, which is a kind of awkward phase of his life. But during which time he actually sort of Er hat sich wirklich durch dieses Institut gestartet, das für Internationalismus gearbeitet hat.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Er wollte wirklich darauf konzentrieren, internationale Beziehungen stark zu bauen. Ich möchte es nur erwähnen, weil es wichtig ist, zu erkennen, dass das im Gesicht vieler Menschen ist, die sagen, oh, dieser Kommunismus... Oh, der 2. Weltkrieg. Wir drücken unsere Rücken auf das. Eisenhower ist derjenige, der sagt, nein, wir sind Teil dieses Welt.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Und wir werden das in sehr subtilen Wegen weiterarbeiten. Don, du bist so richtig.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Es ist auch die nukleare Zeit. All das ist natürlich unter Harry Truman's Watch passiert. Und so sind wir plötzlich in einem brandneuen Weltraum mit dieser unglaublich beeindruckenden Technologie, die wir dachten, dass sie unsere sein wird und niemand anderes, aber es ist natürlich überall im Weltraum. Was ist Eisenhowers Strategie und wie man mit dieser Realität umgeht?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Right, right. He even threatens, he said to have threatened to use nuclear missiles on China in order to end the Korean War. Is that just speculation or did that actually happen?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
So the mutually assured destruction infers that he realized that no one was going to win this war. He was the one that really figured that out. I mean, not personally, but I mean, he was the president at the time that that is realized as a sort of chess move, right? That this is checkmate for the world as far as we can't even use these weapons unless it's destruction.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Interesting. How does this play in Taiwan? I mean, we have taken, you know, we're on the side of Taiwan, we never signed a treaty with them, but he places that under the nuclear umbrella, doesn't he?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Dwight David Eisenhower, Ike to family, friends and colleagues, became the 34th President of the United States in 1953, serving a full two terms until 1961. This was the era when America became first captivated by Elvis Presleys pelvic pulsations and the changing fashions of a beat generation.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
In our last episode for the President Series, we talked about, of course, Harry Truman. And I was fascinated by the fact that you could really root so much of the modern American political thought in Truman's presidency. You know, certainly to do with civil rights. And it really takes a turn towards what we know today.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
You can root in Eisenhower so much of the status quo, as I mentioned at the top of the show. So much of, certainly my generation, that we accept as America's role in the world and the way we view ourselves and our allies and so forth, really starts with Eisenhower. And that's important to nail down in this conversation because we're now going to turn towards Das ist ein Paradox in Eich.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Ich meine, es ist ein Paradox in Eich. Es ist die Hypokrise, mit der die USA schon lange kämpfen werden. Wir haben eine Superkraft, die der Präsident als Schutz für andere im Weltraum präsentiert, die Freiheit, die sie genießen müssen, und die Schutz von ihren Feinden. In der Zwischenzeit, zu Hause, ist nicht alles hunky-dory, offensichtlich.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Auf dem Bild hat Marilyn Monroe adulte Zuschauer in Filmen wie Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, während Teenies über James Deans brütende Brüste in Rebel Without a Cause gezwungen. Während dieser Präsidentschaft haben die McDonnell Brothers Ray Kroc getroffen, die Notion der modernen Suburbia wurde gehackt.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
So we've mentioned it in passing several times there. How does the Cold War affect the Civil Rights Movement? Yes.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Eine generell konservative soziale Ordnung hat gewachsen und die späteren Nostalgie von American Graffiti und Happy Days inspiriert. But this was also the time of Rosa Parks famously refusing to give up her seat and Martin Luther King Jr. emerging to lead the Montgomery Bus Boycott. In discussing the Eisenhower Presidency, we'll focus today on its crucial role in the Cold War and civil rights.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Earl Warren war sein Anwalt. Earl Warren wird der Hauptverfassungsgericht. Er wird der Warren-Kurz, der so viel mit den Zivilen Rechten zu tun hat. War das intentional, ihn, diesen ex-Kaliforniener Anwalt?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Yeah. So Brown versus Board of Education is the 1954 decision to desegregate the schools throughout the South, but it's specific to Kansas. And Little Rock comes next. I just want to establish that Ike was not seeing this come as a result of his presidency. He didn't run on this platform, not in the first term or the second, right?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Topics very resonant today, as the United States is now shuffling its cards and seeming to deal from a new deck. Our guest for this today has been with us before Check out episode 277 on the Spanish-American War Glad to have him Chris Nichols is a professor of history and the Wayne Woodrow Hayes Chair of the National Security Studies at The Ohio State University.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
He is currently working on a book about Eisenhower and the 1952 election. Hello, Chris Nichols. Welcome back to the pod. Don, it's great to be back with you. Thanks for having me. Let's first touch on the backdrop I described in the opening there. The 1950s, such a fabled time in American history, at least in the media and the music.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Is this fair, given the contradictions of the Cold War and what was being confronted in civil rights? Why are we so nostalgic for these so-called happy days?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
My World War II parents, I mention them all the time on this podcast, always said, always rolled their eyes when Happy Days was on. Like, it wasn't like that at all, they would say to me, at least in our household, I suppose. And so, you know, there's a lot of contradictions, which are the texture we'll be talking about today.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Januar 17, 1961, die White House. Obwohl es bald eine Tradition in modernen Präsidentschaften werden, sind sie in der Ära von Dwight D. Eisenhower immer noch eine Auszeichnung der Regierungen. Aber an diesem Tag, der Tag der Begründung seines Nachfolgers, für Präsident Dwight Eisenhower ist seine fähige Begründung für das Land ein Imperativ geworden.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
It might seem strange as we begin a discussion about President Eisenhower with a question about someone else entirely. But it's a good place to start. Who was Robert Taft and how does he contribute to Ike becoming president?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
The Marshall Plan has everything to do with this. All the, as you say, blood and treasure, the treasure especially, going into creating a whole stability in Europe that many Americans back home, understandably in some cases, you know, having lost loved ones, etc., back in the Pacific and in Europe, don't want to have any part in this. You know, we've had two wars in Europe, enough already.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
You mentioned the term Internationalism. Eisenhower, understandably, spent most of World War II over there, figuring out how to win that war. Now he's back home, trying to figure out how to preserve that victory. Where does he land with the Marshall Plan as a tool in all of that?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
After leading the nation to victory in World War II and serving a full two terms as its commander-in-chief for the last eight years, one might expect this to be a glowing tribute to his own administration's political success, a victory lap. But instead, this speech will have a darker, more urgent and prescient tone.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Exactly. This is the major theme or one of the major themes of Eisenhower's time in the White House is this internationalism versus isolationism. That which we hear about all day long these days has its roots in Eisenhower 80 years ago or about 75 years ago.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
So let's back up now and talk about Eisenhauers origins himself, where he comes from, and we'll get back to the presidency in just a few moments. Raised in Kansas, hometown Abilene, Kansas, along the way the family was in Texas and so forth, but they were a deeply religious family. Many, many brothers, for one thing, which I wasn't aware of. His mom becomes a Jehovah's Witness.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
His father, I guess, is an engineer, is that right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. His mother was against him joining the army, but Dwight Eisenhower wanted to go to West Point and did, does very well. Serves in World War I, only domestically, to his great chagrin, he does not go abroad. But he develops tank strategy alongside the likes of George Patton. You know, he's very much this modern warfare kind of guy.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
Then, interestingly, serves between the wars under Douglas MacArthur. And they have a very antagonistic, prickly relationship for the rest of their lives, apparently. He begins World War II as a staff officer, ends it as supreme commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces. It's an incredible professional leap that this man makes from one thing to the other.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
It's an astonishing episode unto itself. You know, how did Eisenhower become Eisenhower? It had everything to do with that moment of taking what he had learned in the trenches of his career... und World War I und in diese neue Art von Krieg der Weltkrieg II. By 1950 he was appointed Supreme Commander of NATO, as we've already mentioned. That sets the table for his run for the presidency in 1952.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
When he runs for the presidency in 1952, what are politics like in the Republican Party? Harry Truman wanted him to be a Democrat, didn't he?
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
A former five-star general means to warn his country of a clear and present danger to its existence. So what is it? This dire threat? About who or what does Eisenhower wish to raise an alarm? A communist adversary flexing its military might? The dreaded Democrats returning to executive power? ICBMs on their way from Russia? To the contrary.
American History Hit
President Eisenhower: War on Soviets & Segregation
How did Eisenhower view the communist threat, which has so much to do with this backdrop?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Let's talk about Douglas' relationship with Lincoln. He first meets him in 1863. Is this before or after the proclamation?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
And how we carry his fight for justice beyond that conflict into the new America he has helped to create. Hello all, this is American History Hit. I'm Don Wildman. Frederick Douglass, geboren und verheiratet in Talbot County, Maryland, in 1818, bekam unvorstellbare Schwierigkeiten, um ein Leitlicht in der Kampf gegen die Zauberung zu werden.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So that first meeting is about getting that better pay and conditions for those black soldiers, right?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Yeah. The conversations you're talking about, there were three meetings once in 63 and then in 64 to discuss, as you're saying. One of the overarching themes here is what's going to happen if the union loses? You know, that's the big problem here, obviously. Right. And Lincoln seeks out that advice from Douglas.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So how much is Frederick Douglass involved in the discussions about reengineering American society with the upcoming amendments that are going to be required? You're reminding people that at this point, the South is not part of the discussion in the Congress. These are, you know, this is how this gets done. That doesn't happen until after the war that the South starts reentering the discussions.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Erstehend von der Zauberung als junger Mann, hat er sich gelernt, zu lesen und zu schreiben, wurde ein berühmter Orator und bestsellender Autor, nicht zu erwähnen, dass er am Ende den Publisher seines eigenen Newspapers, den Northern Star, anbietete, für Abolition und Gleichheit.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So during this time, I'm trying to think of Charles Sumter, all these guys who were in the U.S. Congress. Was Douglass involved? Was he part of those discussions? Was he talking to these guys?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
By 1860 he had become a celebrity figure in the North, a free man, now a husband and father living in Rochester, New York, and facing down, along with the rest of the nation, the inevitability of civil war. We spent a previous episode of this podcast on the earlier chapters of Frederick Douglass' astonishing biography.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Was ist Frederick Douglass' Meinung und seine Partizipation in »The Downfall of Reconstruction«? I'm skipping 10 years of this man's life at this moment, but let's just go to that point, 1877. The Hayes administration is coming in and all of what we've discussed in other episodes is taking place. The compromises that eventually lead to the destruction of the collapse of Reconstruction.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
And today we go further, discussing his years during the Civil War and beyond, again with an accomplished writer himself, Sidney Morrison, author of Frederick Douglass, a novel. Sidney is a former history teacher and school principal in the Los Angeles area and it's great to have him back. Hello Sidney, welcome once again to American History Hit.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So much of the construction era had to confirm his greatest dreams for this country.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So, when we last spoke, we were approaching the events leading up to the vigilante attack, John Brown's attack on Harper's Ferry. How well did Douglas know about John Brown and was he tempted to take part in that?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Wow, okay. Er kommt endlich in 1860 nach Hause, oder?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So what were Douglas' thoughts on the Civil War, generally speaking, at the start of this thing? How did he see the urgency of it and how would it unfold for him in his mind? I mean, this is a brilliant man we're talking about. He understands the implications of this battle.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
I find this to be the most extraordinary moment in understanding this man's psychology. Because this is a formerly enslaved person. He's now become a very famous person and quite accomplished. Best-selling author, etc., etc. But how much of a horror show is he looking at here with this country where he had been in shackles is now right to the very top declaring that this is a Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Corinthians Hall, Rochester, New York, 5. Juli, 1852. Frederick Douglass hat für etwa eine Stunde auf dem Deus gesprochen. Der Wärme in der Hall hat sich erhöht mit der Intensität seiner Worte. Aber außer für ein oder zwei unruhige Seelen bleibt der Publikum transfixiert. Seine Stimme klingelt, als er das, was sich als eine seiner berühmtesten und berühmtesten Oratorien bekannt macht.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
So I understand his own view. I mean, just sort of amazing, brilliant view of this whole thing in his head, but he's also committing his sons to this battle as well.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
Um, he has two sons, Lewis and Charles both serve in the famous 54th, the all black infantry. Yes. What did this do in his own family? I mean, it must have frightened his wife, right?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Civil War to Statesman
What to the American slave, Douglas asks, is your 4th of July? I answer, a day that reveals to him more than any other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. Less than a decade later, the United States will be torn asunder by a war fought over the very issue of slavery. What role will Douglas play in that tortured struggle?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
We can't play down the fact that these positions that he was staking out were controversial and difficult to build those coalitions around. He becomes the majority whip, which is the functionary in Congress who organizes these votes in their constituency. Then in the 50s, he's the Senate minority leader. Then he's the majority leader in 1954.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
All of this is building this notable legislation, which would arise out of Johnson's leadership. I mean, he's there at the beginning of federal oversight of those civil rights decisions, Brown versus Board of Education, for example, 1954. I mean, major things are happening in the 50s, and really at the center of it all is Lyndon Johnson, one way or the other.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
I mean, he's on record using the N-Word. He's got all kinds of vagaries going on in his personality. But you can't discount the fact that what he's involved in as we go is bolder and bolder legislation in defense of people in these situations. And that's why it's so important to understand his origins, you know, where he comes from. And so all that is sort of tapped into as we go along here.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He becomes the Vice President, which is such an interesting and strange thing. He leaves positions of great power and influence in the Congress and takes the position that is famously not like that, which is Vice President. Why does he do this for Kennedy?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Seine Augen wurden von schlaflosen Nachts ausgelöst. Sein Knie war oft los und krank, als ob er für Luft schlug. There are photos of him with his head in his hands, or slumped across a table in an empty room, beaten down with nothing left in the tank. At last came his stunning farewell. Speaking to the nation, he delivered the words that would mark his political end.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
How does his moving into the White House, or at least the race for the White House, play in the realignment of the Southern Democrats? I guess that really comes later under Nixon for sure, but there's a big shift going on here.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
across much of the earlier part of his career. I guess I asked that question because we always talk about that kind of happening, you know, like these guys, Strom Thurmond, they all walk out of the convention and all that sort of things happen. But LBJ is right in the middle of all that stuff. He knows all these guys. He's always manipulating all these guys.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
I always wondered what his role was in the departure of the Southern Democrats from this whole coalition.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Ich bin gezwungen zu sagen, dass er, das kommt aus dem Herzen, aber alles ist politisch mit Johnson. Er ist ein brillanter Praktizist in diesem Bereich.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He, of course, becomes president tragically through the assassination of John F. Kennedy, which we've done stories about in the past, and we're not going to go down that rabbit hole, but I do want to ask you about Tell me about his experience on November 22nd.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He's sworn in on board Air Force One. In that very famous picture with incredibly Jackie Kennedy standing next to him. Did he insist on her being there or was that her doing? I forget. The story goes that it was his idea.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Vielleicht verstehe ich es mit dem Outfit, das sie trägt, weil ich glaube, Lady Bird Johnson anruft, sie zu verändern, und sie sagt, nein, ich will, dass sie sehen, was sie getan haben. Genau. Sie, wer auch immer. Ja. Und tatsächlich, das ist meine nächste Frage.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Ich meine, es muss sofort gewesen sein, dass die Konspirationstheorie angefangen hat, über irgendeine Art von Rolle, die er spielen könnte. Ich meine, es passiert in Texas, das ist sein Heimatland. Natürlich ist er, du weißt, es spielt zu seinem Vorteil, wenn du es so sehen willst. Wie hat er diese Skeptiker selbst beantwortet, oder hat er es?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
I repeat, please look back in the archive. I don't have the numbers to cite right now, but there are episodes about the JFK assassination, which are really fascinating. He is sworn in in November 1963. Obviously, a year later, he has to run for president on his own. He wins an unprecedented victory. 1964, a gigantic landslide against Barry Goldwater. 61% of the popular vote.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Highest percentage ever, going back to 1824, when widespread elections even began. He was immediately engaged in anti-poverty programs, while Goldwater was pushing the opposite agenda, low-tax, small government. This is really kind of a, there's many themes that sort of resonate many times, New Deal themes that go on here.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
One episode of that campaign, which is fascinating because it was the advent of television advertising really, is the Daisy ad that portrays Goldwater as a dangerous extremist. It was gloves off for Lyndon Johnson, wasn't it?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
I mean, the feelings about the assassination alone. The Johnson Presidency. Say what you will about the success or failure of the Great Society programs over the long haul. Boy, the man could get things done. Very few presidents, FDR of course comes to mind, have passed more landmark legislation than LBJ. Let me just list a few of the biggest ones. 1964 Civil Rights Act breaks Jim Crow.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He does this by outmaneuvering those Southern Democrats that I was listing. How does he do that?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Any presidential... Any win of that magnitude is a mandate, basically. And so not a lot of people are going to stand in the way of that for at least the first half of the first term. Followed by Voting Rights Act 1965, the most significant civil rights law he ever passes. Fair Housing Act, 1968, Civil Rights Act, is what that really is. Medicare, and then you just start checking the list.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
It is American History Hit and I'm your host Don Wildman. Thanks for stopping by. The presidential years of Lyndon Baines Johnson, America's 36th president 1964 to 1968, were packed crammed full of torment and turmoil. All sadly bookended by the shooting deaths of two brothers, John F. Kennedy in 63 and Robert F. Kennedy a short five years later.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
I mean, Medicare, Medicaid, Immigration Act, Clean Air Act, Elementary and Secondary Education Act. It's just amazing to think of a time when so much was getting passed by Congress that the public was like, this is my childhood. I mean, this is how I assumed Congresses worked. Yeah, yeah. You know, that issues got raised and people talked about it.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
The news articles argued about it a little bit, the op-eds. And then all of a sudden we got big new programs, you know, federal government fixing things. Acts included NPR, PBS, National Endowment for the Humanities, National Endowment for the Arts. Everything that is being argued out right now and many of them being, you know, about canceled is Johnson, right? Ja, das ist wahr.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
There must have been a time, a speech, a State of the Union, somewhere where he really explained what great society means. When does he say that?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Of course, he's accused of being myopically, you know, dedicated to the New Deal, basically, because that's what he sees as a congressman working out for America. World War II comes along, he continues his work in that regard.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Beide unsere Geschichten sind interaktiv zu heute's Episode, als wir überlegen, wie Johnson's Präsidentschaft die Folgen einer Nation in einer domänischen Krise mit entflammten Tensionen im Ausland, alle gegen den Hintergrund des Zivilrechts-Movements setzten, die wirkliche Gewinne in der Nation machten, trotz der Verletzungen ihrer vordersten Führer, insbesondere Malcolm X und Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
But then, you know, this is where we get the division that exists so definitely today between, you know, the idea that the federal government can do anything to fix problems on the domestic side of American life versus those who still believe in this. We're almost guilty of not just sort of updating, almost like the Constitution needs a convention.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
We needed to update the great society so people understood what it was in their age. Because we're still stuck on the LBJ aspect of it. There was a lot of resistance to it.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Vielen Dank. Untertitelung. BR 2018
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Viel glücklicherweise waren dies auch die Jahre, in denen Muhammad Ali seinen Namen und seinen Sport verändert hat, als Weltmeister von mehr als nur Boxing. James Brown fußte seinen Weg über die musikalische Bühne Amerikas, während Bob Dylan Folkmusik Electric nahm und die Beatles die britische Invasion der USA mit Rock'n'Roll begannen.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
In einer Ära, in der das Land zu dem Pinnacle von Macht und Einfluss erreicht hatte, ähkelten viele seiner Bürger für eine freier und mehr offene Gesellschaft, die die sozialen Mord von früheren Generationen ermutigte. It was during LBJ's time in the White House that change was gonna come, as Sam Cooke once sang out before he too met his tragic demise in those same years.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
This was the LBJ era of America. His would be a presidency that embodied the unexpected trajectory of it all, the successes and the failures, which we'll discuss with Mark Lawrence, Professor of History at the University of Texas. Hook'em Horns! From 2020 to 2024, Mark served as the director of the LBJ Presidential Library and Museum.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
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American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
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American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He has authored several books on Vietnam, most recently The End of Ambition, The United States and the Third World in the Vietnam War. And he was a former guest on previous episodes, back when we talked about LBJ. Hello, Mark. Welcome back to American History Hit. We're so grateful you've returned. Danke, dass du mitgekommen bist, Don. Es ist toll, mit dir zu sein.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Nun, alle Biographien, presidential und anders, beginnen mit einer Ursprungsgeschichte, natürlich. In Lyndon Johnsons Fall ist das besonders wichtig. Wo er herkommt, hat alles zu tun mit dem, wo er endet. Sprich mir über seine Erkennung in der Hilderlande Texas. Welche Welt hat er dort beobachtet?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
As a student, LBJ took a job in a Mexican-American school. This was very formative for him. He saw a lot of discrimination and poverty where he was. That's right.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He was born in 1908, which by the time the Depression comes around, he's in his 20s by that time. So he really comes of age in the New Deal era of America. He's elected to the House in 1937, where he serves Texas' 10th District until 1949. Boy, that's a lot of elections right there, isn't it?
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He is a larger than life figure, even before he becomes the Washington figure that he is. And he plays on that. I mean, he is a Texan through and through.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Ja, ich meine, wir werden darüber sprechen in ein paar Minuten, aber es ist wirklich das Thema seines Karriers, für sicher. Seine Möglichkeit, eine Agenda zu steigern, um es leichter zu sagen. He first runs for Senate, as you say, in 1941, loses, which stings badly. But when the other seat opens in 1948, he runs again. A little thing called World War II in between.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Johnson was in the Naval Reserve, spent most of the war around the Pacific. Boy, it's just amazing when you start looking at his resume. How equipped he was for federal office of whatever level. I mean, in the war, his main job was to inspect these facilities and run around and see how all this was running.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
He's finally awarded medals for his service and then wins the Senate seat and serves from 49 to 61. This is his game, the Senate. This is the old boys network where he can work and he is very comfortable there.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
I want to go back to the fact that he was born in 1908. So he would have seen as a teenager the roaring 20s. He would have seen radio. He would have seen the cars. He would have seen the whole promise of America being realized under the Coolidge administration. That whole time period. Even to becoming an adult.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
And then the whole thing crashes around him along with the rest of the nation in the Great Depression. That would have been his sort of formative years. It's amazing. I never really considered that. In the Senate... He kind of patents his famous Johnson treatment. Explain that demeanor and that technique of his.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
No modern American president has ever looked so visibly, iconically burdened. None embodied the weight of the presidency, the heaviness of the crown, as it were, so completely. You could see it etched in the deep crevices of his face. Lyndon Baines Johnson had been a master of congressional politics. He knew every lever of power, pulled every string.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
There must be many instances where they've really investigated this and nailed it down, but I've never heard it. It's always discussed in kind of general terms. And we've all known persuasive people and door-to-door salesmen, for that matter, who can really sell you on something that you didn't know. I guess that's what you chalk it up to.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
But it seems really distinctive in his case and has a lot in the end, which is why we're covering it, so much to do with pushing some major packages of legislation through Congress, which only he could do, it seems. Yeah, it's true.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Another important theme, as opposed to these days for sure, is his bipartisanship. He is able to work both sides of the aisle without any problem. In so many ways, Johnson is what is apparently lacking today. I mean, that kind of guy who sees no real strong divide between these two sides, but rather a middle that he's drawing people towards. Yeah.
American History Hit
President Lyndon B. Johnson: Triumph to Tragedy
Als er zur Präsidentschaft stürzte, gewann er die Wahl in der größten Landstrecke amerikanischer Geschichte. Aber im Laufe seines Administrations, sicherlich in seinen letzten Monaten, wurde er ein Mann, der sich von der Strain verändert hat. Entschuldigt, isoliert. Die Drucken von Vietnam, der zivilen Unruhe und der politischen Schmerz hatten ihre Bedeutung genommen. Die Allies fliegen weg.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Ich habe es vorhin erwähnt, dass Hoover wirklich gegen die FDR war. Ich möchte nur unterschätzen, wie schlimm es wirklich war. Ich meine, er hätte keine Gespräche mit Roosevelt ohne einen Beobachter im Raum. Er hat den Mann so enttäuscht. He lectures FDR, trying to convince him to change his plans.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Meanwhile, FDR is doing what he needs to do to get his own government starting preparing legislation. I just want to say all that because it's really a chapter that people don't understand. It's in your book about how difficult this was, not only for FDR to face the things that he has to do, you know, his responsibility, but he's also getting a lot of guff from the guy before him.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Ja, Sie haben die Bankenkrise erwähnt. Das ist der erste Fireside-Chats, den er startet. Das ist das Ding, das er tun muss. Und es ist, dieses neue Medium zu nutzen, das jetzt die Leute gewohnt sind. Es ist schon lange da, aber noch nie hat ein Präsident es benutzt, wie er es tun wird. Er kreiert eine neue Art von Rolle für den Präsidenten in den Leben der Menschen.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Roosevelt hatte die Vermutung, eine deutliche, entscheidende Aktion von der federalen Regierung. Es war notwendig, um den Weg zurückzukehren. Aber um seine Initiativen zu erreichen, brauchte er die amerikanischen Menschen, um mit ihm zu sein, um sich auf die dramatischen Maßnahmen zu vertrauen.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Und das ist wirklich interessant, nur als ein Typ, der diese Episoden schon lange gemacht hat. Die Rolle der Präsidentin in Amerika war wirklich eine entfernte. Die Leute wollten sie nicht kampagieren sehen. Die Front-Porsche-Kampagne wurde die Norm für die meisten dieser Leute. Americans didn't really want to have a relationship with their president until the 20th century or thereabouts.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
And Franklin Roosevelt is really the one that kind of creates that. He creates that bond between the White House and the people. This is a very interesting turn in the psychology of the federal government in our lives, isn't it?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Und so, um 10 Uhr östlich, am Sonntag, März 12, 1933, eine Woche nach seiner Inauguration, kreischte Roosevelt die Stimme über Radios auf der ganzen Welt. In moderne Wohnzimmern und städtischen Wohnzimmern, rund um die Küchentücher und in Wohnzimmern. Die Amerikaner haben sich eingelassen, zu hören, wie ihr neuer Präsident sprach. In einfachen, bemerkenswerten Worten.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Er ist natürlich ein guter Redner, aber er hat eine Charisma, die über den Top ist. Ich meine, die Presse lieben diesen Kerl, weil er einfach ein Zimmer fahren kann. Das ist einer seiner Charme und wahrscheinlich eines der Dinge, die Herbert Hoover nicht mag.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
I'll be right back after this short break. Meantime, if you'd like us to cover anything specifically, if you have any ideas of subject matter we should be looking at, send us an email at ahh.historyhit.com. We'd love to hear from you.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Zurück zur Bankkrise. Das ist das, was die öffentliche Sicherheit erweitert. Diese Fireside-Chats, die Fähigkeit, ihnen zu erzählen, was los ist und sie durch das zu nehmen. Aber eine Sache, die sich während des Gesprächs in der Vergangenheit in Erinnerung kommt, ist, wenn die Clinton-Administration kommt und sie wollen dieses neue nationale Gesundheitsprogramm starten.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
And he puts his wife, Hillary, in charge of this kind of messaging campaign. And they bring together all these different personalities. And we are supposed to watch this whole discussion of what's to come. They kind of take that from this period. But FDR, there's not that same run up, is there? It's kind of more singularly done, isn't it?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Er erklärte die nächsten Schritte. Wir hatten eine schlechte Banken-Situation, sagte er.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
I'm just curious about his team and how he is telling people, don't worry, there's experts in control here.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
When he finally gets to the New Deal, which we talk about as if it's one thing, it's many, many things. How does that unfold? Is it done in a very logistical fashion through Congress and through the press? Are we informed about each and every one of these kind of acts that's happening? Or is it done more behind the scenes?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Right. And he has to fight this out in the Supreme Court in many cases, right?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
So famous is one particular program, Works Progress Administration. The WPA started in 1935, all across this country to this day. I mean, it's like a name drop thing. Oh yeah, that's WPA. You talk about a bridge you're going under in Los Angeles or, you know, anywhere across this country, there's some WPA thing that's going on here. This was a, had to have been a pet project of his, right?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
It's to put people back to work. Three million go back to work through this program.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Industrialist. So this is the general idea. How long does it take before people start getting confident about this, before it starts to have some traction?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
The travails of the agricultural world in America are so, you know, grapes of wrath. I'll leave it at that. What has happened to that whole sector of society is such a disaster. Dust bowl and so forth. How effective are his measures in that regard? Or does that just kind of work itself out over time?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Er würde den Chaos stabilisieren, indem er zuerst alle Banken schließt, die ihre Viabilität bemerkenswert, dann die, die sich sicherer bezeichnen, wieder öffnen. Wenn sie wieder öffnen, erhoffte er den Amerikanern, wäre ihr Geld sicher. Es war der erste der vielen solch transformativen Aktionen, die die Roosevelt-Administration eröffnen würde.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Seine nächste Wahl ist 1936. Er gewinnt sie in einem Landkreis. Also hat er natürlich alle richtigen Dinge getan, um sich zumindest wieder zu wählen. Und es scheint, dass die Ökonomie zu seinen Maßnahmen reagiert. Die gemeinsame Phrase ist immer, dass die Depression nicht wirklich bis zur 2. Weltkrieg endete, was sicherlich einen Faktor in diesem Thema spielt.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Aber Sie können sich das wirklich ansehen. Es gab eine wirklich große nationale Rückkehr, auch in den 30ern, ist das, was Sie sagen.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Yeah, it's so interesting. Everything sort of begins with Roosevelt in the 20th century. It's so incredible. The interesting thing is, he doesn't want to have these measures permanent. This is all temporary to fix what happened there. And that's what I think is interesting about the World War II theory, that the Depression really ends there. What that spending does in World War II...
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
ist, dass man nicht etwas so Großes wie den Neuen Deal machen kann und nicht eine gleiche starke Kontraaktion in der Ökonomie hat. Selbst in 1937 werden Dinge ein bisschen schlecht für ihn, ich glaube, es gibt einen Doppel in der Ökonomie dann. Aber die Spende der Weltkriege ist der Regierungsstimulus, der all das beantwortet, oder zumindest, richtig?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
In seinem ruhigen, bemerkenswerten Stil würde Roosevelt die Amerikaner Schritt für Schritt durch uncharted Territory bewegen. A new deal, he had called it. A daring vision for revitalizing the nation. Hey, glad you joined us. This is American History Hit and I'm Don Wildman. Well, every presidential series eventually gets here.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
But what he has created, this broader, more expanded federal government, sticks around. I mean, he's the bad guy for a lot of people down the road. You know, I'm talking about post Reagan. You know, this kind of look back at how did this happen? How do we have this gigantic federal government that now has a magnificent debt? You know, it's a whole different kind of country.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
And people trace it back to Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal, which has now sort of gotten a bad rap. But that was the nature of that previous question, is to say, it wasn't supposed to be anything more than the economic recovery necessary for that size of distress.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Yeah, and they stuck around. Forty years later, they were still in place. In my childhood, my parents were FDR Democrats all the way. And a lot of what I saw in the news was, you know, left over from that era. Bipartisan coalitions that were created. Why these names jumped to mind.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Mike Mansfield, you know, like these famous congressional leaders who were born out of the FDR era were still around in the 70s. Well, as Lyndon Johnson said.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Es gibt eine rechte Linie durch. Am wenigsten gab er konservativer Amerika den Feind, den es benötigte. Die Erstellung eines brandneues aus dieser Zeit wäre die Wand, die sie für den Rest der Zeit drücken würden. Ich meine, sie machen es immer noch. Und es ist dieser Feind, den jeder braucht, um eine Gewinnung zu schaffen. Das ist das, was sie benutzt haben.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Ja, naja, wie er damals sagte, begrüße ich ihre Schmerzen. Insbesondere Herbert Hoover, der ihn immer noch schämt, direkt in den 60er-Jahren. Eric Rauschway ist distinguished professor of history at UC Davis, author of many books, including the one that we've been drawing from today, Winter War, which came out in 2018. It's all about Hoover, Roosevelt and the first clash over the New Deal.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Thank you so much, Eric. I hope you have the courage to come back again on this podcast. We've exhausted you on Hoover and Roosevelt.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Hello folks, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes, dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content, like mysterious missing colonies, to powerful political movements, to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Bye for now. Bye for now.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Our 32nd Commander-in-Chief, first elected in 1932 and then three more times after that. The longest serving president in American history, who is best known by the monogram on his sleeves, FDR.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Franklin Delano Roosevelt from the great state of New York served from 1932 to 1945 before he suddenly died of a cerebral hemorrhage about three months past his fourth inauguration, when he was only 63, though he looked more like 75. FDR ist mit, naja, so viel, vertreten. Er führt die Nation aus der Großen Depression. Er ist der Architekt eines enormen federalen Governments.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Er ist der Mann, der die Weltkriegs-Effekte, die Faschismus auf beiden Fronten verringert haben. Es ist eine Legitimation, die die Gelegenheit entdeckt. In so many ways, we still live in FDR's America, despite dogged efforts to dismantle what he created. We've done a slew of episodes about Roosevelt on this podcast. Look him up. FDR at war.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
A famous hot dog incident with the King and Queen of England. His endless struggle with polio. But today we focus on the New Deal. Those federal initiatives designed to pull America out of the Great Depression. Was it viewed as the success we consider it today? How much should FDR be credited for it? How new was the New Deal?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
We discuss it all in the company of Eric Rauchwey, distinguished professor of history at UC Davis in California, author of several key books on this era, particularly Winter War, Hoover, Roosevelt and the First Clash over the New Deal. Greetings, Professor Eric. It's so nice to have you back. It's great to see you again.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Folks should understand that we met with Professor Rauschway for our Herbert Hoover episode, which is the last one, 31st President. And that would be a good warm up for the conversation we're about to have. So please look that up. Eric, let's put people in this place. 1932, FDR is elected. How bad are things in America at this point?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Er akzeptiert seine demokratische Nominierung mit diesem Quote. Give me your help not to win the votes alone, but to win in this crusade to restore America to its own people. The man had a way with words, but he was also framing a radical new approach to economic duress than had ever been tried before. How new is the New Deal?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Jahrhundert ist. Ich habe mich immer gefragt, wie viel von dem Square-Deal inspiriert wurde, von dem Titel.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
You mentioned something at the end of our last episode on Hoover that really struck a chord for me, that this was a time of great fear in the world, of a rising threat of communism. Even socialism was, of course, frightening. John Maynard Keynes is a big name over in England. There's a lot of what is viewed as real anti-American stuff going on here.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
For FDR to embrace any kind of major federal initiative to address these things is seen by many people as, you know, on the brink of communism.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Sure. I mean, this is what's so big about these times, is these major new forces are at work all around the world. But I just want to be sure, nothing like this idea that Roosevelt is framing out in the campaign, and he's quite open about it, the only answer to this problem of this magnitude.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Das ist ein gleicher Gegensatz von der föderalen Regierung, die die föderale Regierung wächst, dass große föderale Arbeiten einsteigen. Was war das Antecedent zu diesem? Was hat jemals passiert, das ihm diese Idee gegeben hat? Du hast die New York State erwähnt, aber auf der föderalen Ebene, hat jemals etwas wie dieses unterbrochen worden, außer der Krieg?
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
He was going to have to really educate the American population about this, which is where we come to the fireside chats he's so famous for. But he gets no help from Hoover. I mean, the transition was not peaceful. Hoover really didn't like him. Detest is a fair word, I think. Your book called Winter War refers to this right in its title.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
This was not an easy time for America in so many ways, but certainly it wasn't a pretty presidential transition.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
But radical is a fair word to use, right? What we're talking about and about to sort of parse out is a massive government stimulus program. We're used to this now. We've heard it many times, even within our lifetimes here. But back then, this only happened when the nation went to war or something of an emergency nature. To address economic woes, this didn't happen.
American History Hit
President FDR & the New Deal
Als Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1933 die Präsidentschaft beantragte, hatte die Große Depression ihren schlimmsten Punkt erreicht. Näher als 15 Millionen Amerikaner waren aus der Arbeit. Die Ökonomie hat sich um 30 Prozent gekontraktiert. Eine langweilige Bankenkrise hat eine Institution nach der anderen zerstört. Das Land ist auf der Ecke des Verlustes.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
I'll be back with more American history after this short break.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
James, one of the big events, of course, is the death of FDR. 12th of April, 1945, he dies of a stroke, essentially a cerebral hemorrhage. How is that news received on the front lines? How is this processed in military strategy? Is there a reaction like that?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
As of his death, where are the American troops located?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Glad you're here. May 8th, 2025 will mark 80 years since the end of the war in Europe, what is called VE Day, Victory in Europe, when the Nazis unconditionally surrendered after six brutal years of total war.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
But I don't think people understand how incredibly symbolic FDR's death is at that time because the mission has been accomplished.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
April 11th, 1945, the Buchenwald concentration camp is discovered by Allied troops. 21,000 prisoners are found there. 30,000 prisoners are located at Dachau, April 29th. It is hard to conceive how this news goes down for Americans and Europeans. Salt in the wound. Or was there more of an understanding of this all the way along and speculation?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
We're going to be taking a look at America's experience of those final months of the war from the beginning of 1945 to the German capitulation in May, touching on the experiences of troops on the ground, as well as the movements and calculations of political leaders in charge and how Americans generally took it all in back home.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
then you realize what it is you've been fighting that you are on the on the moral side of righteousness yeah it's mild to say so but it is a symbol of what you say before i mean many americans don't realize germany was our model you know in the late 19th century into the 20th even it was the model for high culture it was the model for innovation and technology and and goodness really we wanted to be like the germans in so many ways of course world war one's right there in the middle but
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
It's really unexpected that this could possibly happen within that culture. It's so bizarre.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Modern themes as well. And media has a lot to do with it. Yes. It's amazing. Let's talk, though, more in detail about the division of Berlin. How were those decisions made, basically? What moment did that happen? Was it Yalta?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
So when we roll into town, this is how it's going to be.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Right. They've all been shot and killed. There's massive amounts of death going in there. The Americans are sitting by watching.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
James Holland is the esteemed British World War II historian, someone I've followed closely for years, both in print and visual media. He has a new book coming out on April 24th, co-authored by Al Murray, with whom James also hosts the podcast, We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Greetings, James Holland. It is a great honor to have you. Oh, Don, thank you for having me on.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
The chess game is about Russia, of course. In terms of the German land mass, how true is it that we held back in order to let them come forward?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
So what's the rationale, Eisenhower's rationale about not taking- He's trying to conserve troops, trying to save lives. Because the fighting's really still very fierce, right?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Eisenhower is leaving it to the Russians to grab.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
And, you know, you're going to need every single man. It's not a politically strategic thing he's doing in terms of the division of Berlin and all of that.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
I think many Americans are left confused by the endgame of World War II, right? We surely know how it starts. Poland, the Blitzkrieg, Dunkirk, all the big events, D-Day, the bombing of Dresden, the Battle of the Bulge. It all happened in a great rush of events in those last months. There are tremendous losses of life.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Counterfactual is interesting about whether Berlin was not divided up. Would we have the Iron Curtain? Would we have that situation in terms of the division of Europe?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Hey, it's Don here, jumping in to tell you that there are some descriptions of mass murder and violence that some listeners may find very unpleasant. It's January 16th, 1945, in the Ardennes forest in Belgium. It's blisteringly cold, below freezing. A thick layer of snow covers the ground, muffling all sounds and bringing an eerie quiet.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
VE Day, 8th of May, 1945. Euphoria in the streets of America. I mean, we see those pictures, the sailors kissing the nurses, packs of people in Times Square. Was that the general reaction throughout the world? Were we free to be so euphoric or...
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Our rejoicing is sobered and subdued by our supreme consciousness of the terrible price we have paid to the world.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
to rid the world of hitler and his evil band uh he dedicates the day to fdr and orders all the flags flown at half mast yeah that's a definitely a mixed reaction because the americans have always had of course a big problem with spending lives to save others you know to go abroad and quite rightly so and this is a major moment of considering the price that we've paid for this
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
The Battle of the Bulge is the biggest loss of Americans in World War II in one battle, 19,000. And we are now on our way to Berlin. What is Germany holding out for at this point of the war?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
A can of worms has been opened up. James Holland, I have been a fan for so long. It is an honor to meet you and sit with you in person. I invite all listeners to look up this man's books. There's a long list of them and to tune into the podcast, which he does with his partner, Al Murray. We have ways of making you talk. I'm going to be a big listener myself. Thank you so much.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. From mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
And while you're at it, please share with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Thanks so much.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
And yet, just weeks earlier, these forests were the scene of a ferocious battle. The Germans, having been on the defensive for months, had launched a surprise attack when the Allies least expected it. Panzer tanks punched through the American positions, aiming to split the Allied front line in two.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
So much of this is about control of information. The German people just didn't know what was going on.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
The Yalta conference takes place in February 45. How does this impact the war? It is basically the three main powers figuring out how this is all going to divvy up, right?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
This, the Germans hoped, would give them enough momentum to push their enemies back off the continent and turn the war around. But this was not to be. Despite initially pushing the Allies back, the Germans met tough defenses. American troops in key positions like Bastogne held out under vicious sieges. Now it's the Allies' turn to attack.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Right. Everything he'd fought for, everything he'd envisioned, you see the depression on his face that he realizes quite possibly is not going to happen.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Do they talk about the United Nations at that point?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Now it's General Patton's tanks advancing through war-torn villages. And now the Germans' retreat has begun. Disorderly. Desperate. Doomed. The Battle of the Bulge marks the last major German offensive on the Western Front. It's now only a matter of time before the Allies reach Germany. The end of the war is in sight. This is American History Hit. Hello out there. I'm Don Wildman.
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
War crimes in the Nuremberg trials are also agreed upon. They decided to prosecute and go for it. That's a pretty radical thing to do, isn't it? That was unprecedented or not?
American History Hit
1945: America & Victory in Europe
Yeah. By March and April, the Allies are over the Rhine, right?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Then the obverse, the weird side, the Great Seal. That unfinished pyramid on a barren landscape. It's 13 steps, rising to nowhere, topped by the ever-watching Eye of Providence. The design is unsettling as it is comforting and secure. As if it's whispering some truth. Right below it reads, Novus Ordo Seclorum. New Order of the Ages. Yikes. It's eerie. It's cryptic.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Wir schauen uns die Erleuchtung aus der Sicht der Geschichte an. Zu dem Zeitpunkt, wie viel sprachen sie über diese Ideen, die in der täglichen Leben passieren? Ich meine, etwas, was sie versucht haben zu üben, als sie gebeten haben.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Which is what basically the Freemasons were doing for a long time at that point. I'm using the metaphor of a builder, the compass, you know, all the techniques of architecture to rebuild a man from the inside out and create a better and stronger individual. How much did he use the ideas of Freemasonry in creating this group?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Yeah. So let's underscore what we're talking about here. Just take a moment. The Illuminati is a name that refers not to some strange mystic glow or even weird lighting device from under the table. It refers to the Enlightenment. That is a direct case here, which for my money is that which made modern society. Certainly this American one that I live in, it makes it work.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
separatieren uns von den Bindungen von dem alten Feudalismus und der Staatsreligion. Also jedes Mal, wenn wir das Wort Illuminati sagen, sollte man nicht den Wuh-Wuh-Sound-Effekt in der Hände hören. Es hat nichts damit zu tun. Es hat mit der Erleuchtung zu tun.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Aber das belästigt den Fakt, dass die Illuminati von innen gerottet haben, haben sie nicht? Es gab so viel Kampf während dieser Periode des Ausbruchs.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Und hallo, es ist American History Hit, ich bin Don Wildman und wir haben heute ein faszinierendes Thema zu diskutieren. Well, unknown forces. Sound familiar? So, where did this start? I mean, really? Where did this notion of a star chamber of shadowy figures, a cabal of conspirators weaving their nefarious webs of intrigue at our expense, to benefit only themselves, where did this come from?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
We've learned the term from all those police procedurals. They rolled up on these guys. They've, you know... Everybody turns on each other and houses are ransacked and documents are seized. And it all gets very condemned by the state. And then gets painted with a brush, as you say, down the road.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
So over the course of about 10 to 20, 30 years, really, you end up with this very hopeful idea run by a guy who becomes a dictator. I mean, it really sounds like the story of any, I mean, cult, frankly, but any group like this that has sort of this internal agenda trying to inflict itself upon the world has problems within itself and then ends up breaking down with the pressures that come upon it.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Ich möchte darüber nachdenken, was du vorhin schon erwähnt hast, über die Art und Weise, wie dieser Gruppe für die französische Revolution verurteilt wurde, die so viel von dem Kreuzungspunkt ist, mit dem wir noch mit dieser Idee leben. Beginnt es mit diesen Büchern, die aus Großbritannien herauskommen?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Because it seems so unlikely that the great state of France, with this tremendous aristocracy, with all the history that was behind this, would suddenly collapse. How could that possibly happen? There are lots of reasons why that happened. And there's lots of history behind that that's provable.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
This is so much the case of conspiracy theories that they become a comfortable place for people to go to, to undo what seems like such a tangled mystery. This happens over and over and over again. It's just very interesting to find out that the Illuminati were blamed for the French Revolution. I don't think a lot of people walking around today understand that that's really where it begins.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
So the idea was, if I'm getting this, that this German phenomenon, the Illuminati, had somehow infiltrated the French society, tipped the revolution, which of course at first we were in favor of, but went too far because of all their nefarious doings. They want to take things over. That same problem could happen to the American revolution, to our ideals.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
dass, wenn wir diese Leute hier infiltrieren, das passieren wird. Und sie sehen das so offensichtlich, weil die Franzosen so eine große Rolle in unserer Revolution hatten, oder?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
So this is an area where history is indispensable, because there is a factual story behind this fiction, specifically to do with a group more often than not cited as the force behind the mayhem, the method behind the madness, the ones called the Illuminati. Who were they? Where did they come from? What was their grand plan?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
But he could have been painted with that brush, right? By his adversaries.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Boy, you can see how useful this is to, you know, not just to the 1700s, but all the way through to all the world events that happen or the domestic events that happen here in the States that seem to shake the very foundation of where we live. How does this happen? You know, you look back on it. How did we get here? Well, it must be this group that's in charge. Untertitelung. BR 2018
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
And is there any chance that somehow, somewhere, they're still meeting in secret and still playing as pawns in their grand chess game?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Let us find out today, and quick before they shut us off, with author Michael Taylor, whose new work is entitled Impossible Monsters, Dinosaurs, Darwin and the War between Science and Religion, who is at present working on a full-length history of the Illuminati and none too soon. Welcome, Michael Taylor, to American History Hit. Nice to meet you.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Okay, let's start by contrasting the rumor and reality. There's a long list of modern day events that lots of people automatically assume have to do with this select group of manipulators. Top of mind, the Kennedy assassination, moon landing, Vietnam war, 9-11, 2008 housing crisis. Now even the fires of Los Angeles as they seek to create smart cities, whatever they are.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Was ist die Idee, wie dieser Gruppe seine verdammten Taten macht, die grundlegendste Version?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
What time frame are we talking about the beginnings of this, when this man did what he did in Germany?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Warum hier? Ich meine, warum in Bavaria und warum an dieser Universität? Und wer war dieser Mann, Adam Weishaupt, der diese Meinung hatte?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Viele von diesen Geschichten handelt es sich um die Rückführung gegen die katholische Kirche. An diesem Punkt nennen sie sich nicht die Illuminati, oder?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
At the core of this effort is a really important and charming aspect of life in these days. You have the emergence of individuals, this idea of this individual spirit. And people like Ben Franklin are writing things like the Poor Richard's Almanac. This perfectibility of the individual is a big theme in society in these days. And it makes sense.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
I mean, as human civilization is becoming more mercantile and people are learning they can make money and there's more of sort of things are breaking up into... Little guilds and so forth, a little earlier on. This whole idea of perfecting the human, your own self, which is very much what we do today still.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Wer sind die Mitglieder dieses Kabals? Ist es fair, sie als Kabal zu nennen? Wie haben sie sich selbst vertreten?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
I don't understand why. What was so dangerous about this to them?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
And yet, holding a dollar bill, there's still something about it. The texture, one quarter linen, three quarters cotton, soft and crisp at the same time. Well, till you put it through the laundry. A familiar sepia green, Washington's unwavering gaze, the serial numbers stamped in order. Dann ein Federal Reserve Not, die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika. Basically unchanged since 1963.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
Beobachteten sie es als ein furchtbares Gesetz? Ich meine, waren sie so viel, dass es klingt, als würde man sich auf die Individuen und das Bessere der Menschheit konzentrieren. Wie fühlen sie sich über ihre Position im Staat?
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
It is very similar to what you learned, one learns about the guilds and how they were training their members in secret because the church did not like that, you know, and especially the low countries and all these scary places up there. And also against the state.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
I mean, this time frame is really about this emergence, as I'm saying, and this is an important theme to hang our hat on, that this is a time, the enlightenment is about the individual emerging from what has always been a group mentality. And there's education, there's, as I say, people are making money.
American History Hit
The Illuminati in the US
This is what is naturally happening in society, that we are part of, and we are part of that continuum today. They're joining in on this and sort of ramping things up. Is that a fair way of looking at it?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Es ist um 1836, und er ist um 18 Jahre alt, dass wir über Erstehung sprechen. Ich meine, das ist seine große, das ist sein Grund. Ich bin interessiert, ob er jemals über Harriet Tubman rannte. Ich meine, das ist die gleiche Region, in der sie arbeitet, oder?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
as he addresses a theme dear to all Americans, the meaning of the 4th of July. I am glad, fellow citizens, that your nation is so young, he says to his audience. 76 years, though a good old age for a man, is a mere speck in the life of a nation. Douglas proceeds to draw this parallel analogy between the life of a man and the life of a country.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Extraordinary. Those two are just tips of the iceberg of these lives that were lived so boldly. To operate outside the lines of enslavement is amazing, considering how defeating that is every moment of your life.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
To then have the vision of a Frederick Douglass or a Harriet Tubman, it just boggles the mind how a human being could maintain any kind of hope and sustain that kind of dream, much less accomplish it.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
How does he escape? What is the actual means with which he gets to the north?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Anna Murray, die du sprichst, ist in Baltimore und sie ist eigentlich eine freigeborene Frau. Das ist richtig. Sie ist eine freigeborene Frau. Sie ist nicht verheiratet. Sie ist also in der Lage, das zu funktionieren und sie kann ihm Papier holen. Das ist richtig. Und auch ein Seilers-Outfit, glaube ich. Das ist richtig. Und er steuert eigentlich auf einem Boot.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Drei Jahre und zehn Jahre sind die gewählte Zeit für einzelne Männer. Aber die Nationen zählen ihre Jahre in Tausenden. Laut diesem Faktum sind Sie sogar jetzt nur am Anfang Ihrer nationalen Karriere, immer noch im Zeitraum der Kindheit. I repeat, I am glad this is so. Why is he glad?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
And they will stay married for 44 years, which is amazing.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
We need to skip through a few things and touch down briefly here. His travels, his escape plan, takes him through Philadelphia onto New York, which was actually not a very safe place. There was a lot of the same thing was going on on the borders as in New York, because of course it's a hub. Und so musste er aus dieser Stadt raus.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Aber das ist, wo er zuerst seinen Namen von Bailey zu Johnson verändert hat, was auch eine temporäre Veränderung war. Aber er ist im Grunde auf dem Weg nach New Bedford in Massachusetts, was in diesen Tagen bereits als ein abolitionistisches Zentrum bekannt gewesen wäre, oder?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Right. New Bedford is on Cape Cod, famous for the Moby Dick story. It was a whaling capital, but a large seaport. And you're mentioning this because he had actually been trained as a ship's caulker. And he could get down there, which is a very important craft, which will enable him to get work in that town. Why did he eventually change it to Douglas?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
This man, who spent the earlier years of his life enslaved in the South, who has had to fight prejudice and hatred all his 30-some years to cast off those shackles. Because somehow, in such a young nation, and in the mind of this optimistic man, there is still hope.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Er ist 20 Jahre alt. Und New Bedford ist wirklich sein Launchpad. Und das ist vis-à-vis von einem Mann namens William Lloyd Garrison. Und der Arbeit, die in den Abolitionisten-Zirkeln gemacht wird. Es ist, wo er, das ist, wo er an einer Konvention in Nantucket endet. Was war, du weißt, das Athenäum da ist sehr berühmt, sogar in diesen Tagen. Um die Zeit von 23, eigentlich um 1841.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Er landet in Nantucket und macht eine Rede an der Antislaverie-Sozietät. Which becomes the Massachusetts Anti-Slavery Society. And is that where Garrison hears him speak? I've always been confused about that.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Das ist der Pivotpunkt. Und wir haben alle gesehen, dass das in verschiedenen Städten passiert. Wir sehen tolle Akteure, jeder Art von Performer hat es einfach. Das ist Star-Qualität. Und das ist, was du kennst, was Frederick Douglass besitzt. Er ist ein selbsteducierter Mann. Er hat sicherlich nicht viel oratet.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Aber da hat er eine Chance, in dieser bestimmten Situation, wo Oration die Schlüssel ist. Und er hat diese Star-Qualität. And so if you're looking for these pivot points, you mentioned one before, the fight that he has where he stands up for, you know, against his enslaver. And then here in this anti-slavery society meeting, he suddenly is noticed.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
And this is going to be the skill set that really carries him forth. Not only his ability to speak, but also his ability to write. All of these things that he's trained himself to be, which is what, you know, brings tears to the eyes to imagine how brave and bold this man was to grab on. And we are decades from the Civil War. Yes.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
There's no reason that anyone would think anything is going to change in America in any radical way. And yet he's finding his way through this.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
I'm glad we're talking ahead because, believe it or not, for the listeners, he's only 27 at the point where we've left off. A 27-year-old gorgeous person. I mean, that's the other thing we're not mentioning. This man walks in a room, everybody notices him. That's right, yeah. He's an extraordinarily handsome man and tall and strong and all the rest of it.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Ja, und er bringt eine positive Energie in den Raum. Er ist, er ist, all diese, diese Sternqualität, im Grunde 1845, ich habe 27 Jahre alt erwähnt, er fährt nach den USA. Wieder einmal, außergewöhnlich. Dieser ehemalige geschlossene Mann fährt jetzt weiter. Er ist immer noch offiziell geschlossener. Er ist immer noch ein Fugitiv. Sie haben noch nicht das Gesetz verabschiedet, aber es kommt.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Hey, it's American History Hit. I'm Don Wildman. Greetings and thanks for listening. In February 1818, on the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay, a boy named Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey was born enslaved. Such was the system across the American South in those days. If you were born to a mother enslaved, then most likely you were and for all your living days to come enslaved as well.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
And he's sent off by the crowd that he's in, wants to send him away. I suppose he's under pressure to do so because he could get caught, right?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Das Wort ist Manumission, also wenn jemand das Geld zahlt, um seine Freiheit zu verkaufen. Das ist durch diesen Kreis von Freunden in England gemacht worden. Sie haben 711,66 Dollar gezahlt, was in diesen Tagen viel mehr war. Und seit 1845, ein weiterer Pivot-Moment, ist er ein freier Mann. Nicht nur ein freier Mann, sondern auch einer, der einen bestsellernden Autor ist. Das ist unglaublich.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
He's turning into a tremendous leader, is what's really happened. And he's being supported by a tremendous network of folks. Because he's the real deal. He is speaking from experience, not just the intellectual, spiritual quality that the Northerners, Abolitionists, have been doing for so long at this point. 1848, he's back in the United States.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Now he's a free man, by the way, so he can move freely around this country. How would that have been proven? Would you have literally carried papers
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Zwölf Jahre Slaves. Samuel Northup's Account of his own enslavement, illegal enslavement, is a good comparison.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
So waren die unvergesslichen Regeln der Schlafslaverie in Amerika, die sich über den Laufe ihres Kindesleben als Wettbewerb zwischen den Norden und den Süden der Staaten ledigte. But somehow, against all odds, this boy's life and destiny would prove to be astonishingly different. His name would be changed as well, to Frederick Douglass.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
That Dred Scott decision and the Fugitive Slave Act disavowed his ability to be an American citizen, right?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
It didn't necessarily mean that he could have been taken back to the South, right?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Can you imagine what that news meant to this guy? I mean, come on.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
The flame that lit the tinder, it really truly was. I'll be back with more American History after this short break.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
And in this episode today, we'll discuss the remarkable biography of this legendary figure, who broke free from his bondage to become one of the most admired and accomplished Americans of his day and ours.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Untertitelung. BR 2018 Das war's für heute.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
having dedicated his work as a skilled writer, celebrated orator, journalist and publisher to the abolition of slavery, to racial and gender equality, to the courageous advocacy of social justice ideals. And to understand how he did this, we are joined now by author Sidney Morrison, whose 2024 work Frederick Douglass, a novel, imagines the personal side of this man's very public life.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Sydney has worked as a history teacher and high school principal in the Los Angeles area, and it's very nice to have you on the show. Hello, Sydney Morrison.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
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American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
His is a very long life, Frederick Douglass. I'm curious how and why you chose to explore it in a narrative form, as a novel.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Ja, wartet nur, bis ihr seht, wo er endet, Leute.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Genau. Er endet... Spoiler Alert, on 15 acres with a beautiful house.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Sidney Morrison is the good man we've been speaking with. His 2024 work is called Frederick Douglass and Novel. It's a historical novel that takes a look at the personal side of this incredible public man. Thank you, Sidney. We'll talk to you again soon.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Vielen Dank für das Zuhören von American History Hit. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
So, let's sketch out that biography. It all begins, as I say, before in Maryland, 1818, where he was born to his mother, Harriet Bailey. The father, however, was a mystery to him all his life. Take us through those early years, which were spent, many of them, mostly apart from his mother, who passed away when he was seven.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
I just want to underscore a few of the things you've mentioned already. Father a mystery, even in his own autobiographies. But you're mentioning Aaron Anthony, who was the clerk and overseer of a whole bunch of... He had large responsibilities as a slaveholder in those days. This was something that was repeated all over the South, of course.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Owners or masters, if you will, of enslaved people raping, essentially, the women that were their possessions. Das ist sehr wahrscheinlich die Situation in Frederick Douglass' Fall. Es ist sehr indelikat. Es ist ein schwieriges Thema zu sprechen, aber das war die Wahrheit. Einer der versteckten Kriminellen der Slaverie war wirklich dieser Aspekt davon.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Und dann redest du darüber, wie viel Bewegung dieser junge Junge durch seine frühen Jahre von einem Ort zum anderen gemacht hat. Und das ist schwierig zu behalten. But that was the other aspect of enslavement in those days. You were a product. You were a service that was leased out or purchased or any number of ways that you would have found yourself away. Family connection didn't matter.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
They broke up families. They utilized young boys especially as a very important product. Oh, you know, I could get a lot of money for that. That informed his entire childhood until he finally, as you say, ends up in Baltimore in a whole different kind of experience, which is this urban enslavement.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
5. Juli, 1852. In der Corinthian Hall in Rochester, New York, sitzen die Mitglieder der Rochester Ladies Anti-Slavery Society, die sich auf die Rednerin vor ihnen konzentrieren. Die Halle, ihre hohen Fenster auf beiden Seiten und ein hohes paneliertes Gepäck, das die Wärme und die Atmosphäre befindet, fühlt sich nahe an, stifelnd.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
His great achievements are many, but one of them is to be such a writer and publisher. And it is in Baltimore at the age of eight that he's at first taught to read, or at least given the rudimentary instruction on how to read by Sophia Auld, the wife of the man who has taken possession of him. This begins this career of his, this literate career.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
How difficult was it for a boy like him to learn to read and write? That was not done, was it?
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
By the time he's 16, he's been in Baltimore for about eight years at that point, right? He's sent back, as happens, rented out to a farmer named Edward Covey. And this man was, you know, right out of the book, the textbook slave breaker type. And there, Douglas is, not yet Douglas, Bailey, is beaten several times and actually fights back. This is a curious incident to me.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
It's mentioned every time, I suppose, it's part of his autobiography. He actually strikes back at the man and beats him at the fight. This changes their relationship forever. I always wondered how would he have managed to do that and not get into a lot of trouble.
American History Hit
Frederick Douglass: Enslavement & Escape
Die Gäste schütteln sich in ihre Säge, die Schuhe schütteln sich gegen einander. Unter fast jeder anderen Bedingung wäre diese Assemblage sauber, unabhängig, für einen Atem von frischem Wasser. Aber heute sind sie auf dem Podium vor ihnen, wo Frederick Douglass steht, der bekannte afroamerikanische Schriftsteller und Orator, der den Raum mit seiner unglaublichen Präsenz regiert.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Wow. So he wasn't recruited. He kind of volunteered for this.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Interesting. It has a lot to do with his social class, as you mentioned. I mean, and that would have been true within the British Air Force for sure or the British military. There was a real caste system, depending on where you were from in life. Yeah, yeah, indeed. So he goes to work for the Japanese under the cover of working for Mitsubishi, right? Which was a huge company in those days already.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
What was happening in Japan at this time? That is the backdrop to all of this. I mean, we have a lot of internal struggles within the military there. The emergence of a real hawkish wing that's going to lead to all the problems. Yeah.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Es ergibt Sinn, dass die Japaner so auf all das nachdenklich denken würden, weil sie natürlich eine Insel-Nation sind. Sie sehen irgendeine Chance, ein Empire zu erschaffen, Hand in Hand mit ihrer Fähigkeit, eine Luftwaffe aus Schiffen zu launchen. That's going to be their strategy and that's why they're so much at the cutting edge. What were relations like between Japan and the UK in those years?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
So how much would they be watching with concern the fact that one of their ex-heroes is over there working for Japanese industry supposedly?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Es ist hier, nahe der Berge, drei Stunden vor Sonnenschein, am 7. Dezember 1941. Die Crew an der Minesweeper USS Condor sieht, wie es aussieht, ein Submarineperiscope. Es ist um 3.42 Uhr und die Crew berichtet sofort ihre Sichtung an den Watchdog auf der Berge, den USS Ward. Vor diesem WWI-Destroyer ist Lieutenant William W. Outerbridge in seiner ersten Mission als Schiffskommandant engagiert.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
It's a good cover story. I'll tell you, I'll say that. One of his pals is a captain in the Navy, Isoroku Yamamoto, who then becomes the admiral and the visionary behind the Pearl Harbor attack. That's how in this guy is.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Es ist eine interessante Perspektive, weil wir heute so das Faktum verlieren, dass, wenn du in den frühen 20er und frühen 30er Jahren bist, die Welt nicht über eine andere Weltkriege interessiert. Heute denken wir daran, dass es eine Buchend-Situation ist und all diese anderen Dinge, die in der Mitte passieren, nicht so wichtig sind wie die Kriege. Aber in der Tat war es das Leben wie immer.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ich meine, wir sind von einer großen Kriege hinter uns gegangen und die Welt war modernisierend. Also hier sind wir. In 1928 bewegt Rutland zurück nach London, um für seine Bruder's Truck Company zu arbeiten. But again, it's not too long before he gets restless and the Japanese hire him again.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
I'm curious why the British intelligence hadn't sort of locked in on the fact that this guy was a outright spy.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
He was good. He was a good spy, is what he was, right? I mean, he was a very charismatic fellow. That's going to carry him into this next chapter for sure, because he's really good at socializing. And once you're good at socializing, you can cover up a lot. They have a code name for him, which I find fascinating. Agent Shinkawa, which translates as New River. I looked that up.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
It's really interesting. So he is sent by the Japanese at that point. They hire him in London to go to Hollywood. Das war natürlich ein ziemlich schickes Gebiet in diesen Tagen. In diesem Moment bist du in einer anderen Sphäre von Einfluss. Was waren die japanischen und amerikanischen Beziehungen zu diesem Zeitpunkt, als er in Hollywood kam?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Outerbridge und seine Crew suchen unvergesslich nach der Anzeige der Anzeige, schlussendlich verabschiedet sie es als furchtbar. Outerbridge zurückkehrt zu seinem Kabinett um zu schlafen, nicht zu wissen, dass die Kondors-Crew tatsächlich eine Periscope anzeigte und dass sie zu einem der fünf 46-Tonnen japanischen Midget-Submarinen beteiligt war, die die Berge penetrierten.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
But it is a strategic choice of the Japanese by his handlers to send him to Hollywood because they are very aware of the fact that this is the way things are going to go. I mean, they have a whole chess game in mind here. One of the events that's interesting to me is in 1932, Henry Stimson, the Secretary of War under FDR, has really squared off against Japan over their actions in Manchuria.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
This contributes to the tensions between the governments. There had also been, you mentioned immigration policies that had been passed in the United States that were very anti-Asian. So there was a lot, things were beginning to ratchet up. Yeah. ...that was fueling this radical fringe in Japan. They come up with quite an elaborate plan to kidnap one Charlie Chaplin in order to create an incident.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Aber anyway, das ist in der Hintergrund. Richtig. Aber es ist wichtig zu erkennen, dass hier ein Ramping-up durch die 30er-Jahre stattfindet. Und Hollywood wird ein Hotbed für diese Art von Intelligenzarbeit für die Japaner sein. Sie haben dort viel Zugang. Wie Sie erwähnt haben, sind die Beziehungen nicht schlecht. Jetzt werden sie schlimmer, aber sie können kommen und gehen.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Und so beginnen sie zu schauen, wie sie dieses Spiel auswählen. Rutland stoppt in Japan im Jahr 1933, bevor er nach L.A. fährt, auf dieser Mission, die sie ihnen senden. Was waren diese Beratungen in Japan über?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
And they kind of set him up in a stock brokerage cover story, right? He's going to be a stock broker living in Hollywood. He's got a lot of money. They're going to pay him very handsomely, as you say. He can also sell aircraft in Santa Monica. It's a whole thing.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Zwei und eine halbe Stunde nachdem der Periscope gespottet wurde, ist ein weiteres Schiff an der Berge. Diesmal ist es der Storeschiff USS Antares. An Bord des Watchdogs USS Ward ringt der Telefon von Outer Bridges Bunk. Captain, komm auf die Brücke. Um 6.37 Uhr haben die Beobachter auf dem Antares eine kleine Submarintower besucht. Und diesmal ist es bestätigt.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Well, he's a perfect spy for this. This is the whole point of your book is that this guy was just made for the role because Santa Monica for in those days, I mean, L.A. in those days was the place for advancing airlines still is in some ways, but, uh, It was where the B-1 bomber was made in Burbank. I mean, this is where it's always happened for American aircraft technology.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
So the fact that this British flyer would land in Los Angeles working for the Japanese, well, it makes kind of sense, you know, because he's going to be making business out of this. The banker who handles his payments, a fascinating twist here, is, help me with the pronunciation, Isuke Ono, is that correct? Yeah, Isuke Ono.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Who turns out to be, this is just obscure stuff here, he turns out to be the father of Yoko Ono, who I didn't even realize grew up in California.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Er hat jetzt ein ganzes Akt. He's gonna throw major parties, he's gonna be the big wig in Hollywood, and he pulls this off with great aplomb. I mean, he's a very popular fellow in Hollywood in those days, paying for all the catering. You know, that's the way to make friends. If you buy drinks for people, you can be very popular, even if you're not looking for information.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Klar, ja. Ich meine, das Buch heißt Beverly Hills Spy. Ja. Wie lange war dieser Zeitraum für ihn, als er in L.A. war? Und wie systematisch war es? Er arbeitete an verschiedenen Ecken. Er war sehr aktiv, wie du sagst, nicht ein Schlafspieler.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
He also installs an Irishman that he knows as a night janitor at the Lockheed factory.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Um 6.45 Uhr werden zwei Schüsse von den 4-Inch-Gunnen der USS Ward getötet. Danach kommt ein Abfall. Der japanische Sub schlägt und sinkt auf den Ozeanflur. Von der USS Ward wird die folgende Nachricht an die Pacific Fleet Headquarters übernommen, um 6.53 Uhr. Wir haben getötet, getötet und Abfallabfälle auf einem Submarin, der in der Seereffensive funktioniert.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Und das ist, was er tut. Hat er eine Begegnung mit den Japonern? Sieht er Krieg? Weiß er darüber?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ja, und ein Teil des Problems ist, dass die USA und die UK nicht mit ihren Intelligenz-Services in Kontakt sind. Wir sind hier vor der 2. Weltkrieg. Sie haben nichts mit einander zu tun.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Yeah, exactly. Not to mention, we completely lack our own organization. I mean, this is all a developing circumstance. You know, we don't have a CIA. We don't have a, you know, the FBI exists, but barely exists. And it's certainly not talking to the Office of Naval Intelligence on a regular basis. So that's the problem.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
And that's really what post-World War II is so much about, which is this organization of these intelligence agencies realizing that this is a big threat from whatever quarter. There were FBI files released in 2017, I suppose you ran across in your research, that confirmed the fact that he was actually working for both sides, right? I mean, he had become a double agent working for the U.S. as well.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
How much did Rutlands intelligence, that which he delivered to the Japanese, how much did that play a part in the attack on Pearl Harbor?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Seine Fingerprinten sind in allen verschiedenen Orten. Wow. Ich hätte mir vorgestellt, dass das wahrscheinlich die japanischen Spione waren, die in Hawaii leben und diese Bilder und solche Sachen nehmen. Keine Ahnung, dass es ein britischer Typ in Hollywood war, der Partys für die Sterne macht. Das ist unglaublich.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Als er als Doppelagent geworden ist, musste er sich erinnern, dass er für die Japaner arbeitete, oder?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Dies sind die ersten Schüsse, die die USA in der Zweiten Weltkriege getötet haben. Der Anwalt, der die Botschaft von Ward erhält, klingelt die Alarm nicht, sondern sucht Verwaltung. Der Alarm erreicht nur Admiral Blocks Mitarbeiter um 7.15 Uhr.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Das war 1939. Wow, das ist wirklich nah. Das ist unglaublich. Ja, das ist eine ziemlich gute Geschichte, Ron. Das ist ziemlich enttäuschend. Das ist unglaublich. Im Grunde genommen redest du über einen Mann, der diese Art von brillantem Geist genommen hat, der auf einem schnellen Weg war, hatte er nicht in sein Problem mit dem sozialen Status geraten. Das ist wirklich, worum es ging, oder?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ich meine, er würde nur so weit gehen und er wusste es. Und das ändert ihn in den frühen Tagen seines Lebens in eine Art Zynik, glaube ich. This is so much the story of so many spies out there. Did he run into any other spies in Hollywood? I'm curious if they all knew each other.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Yeah, I would assume. There must have been a community of these guys. I mean, it was such the place.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ja, Mexikaner senden Leute herunter. Man kann es sich nur vorstellen. Ja. 1941, Oktober 1941, gerade bevor Amerika, ich meine, jetzt gibt es eine große Krieg in Europa. Rutland zurückkehrt nach Britannien und wurde für eine sogenannte Hostel-Assoziation verabschiedet. Sie treffen endlich diesen Kerl. Sie entscheiden endlich, etwas über ihn zu tun.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Er wird mit einer bestimmten Regulierung nicht verhaftet. Was passiert dann mit ihm? Und wie geht er weiter?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Während die Berichte in den untergebrochenen Submarinen in den Naval Headquarters gekodet und beurteilt werden, starten Warnsignale in den Luftinformationzentren. At 7 a.m. radar at Opana Oahu spiked, suggesting a major flight of aircraft to the north about 88 miles out. Army Lieutenant Kermit Tyler, on receiving the radar report at 7.20 a.m., disregards it.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ja. What a depressing ending to this heroic life. This is a fall from grace story. This man who was so high. Wow. You know, the metaphors of being in a plane or so, you know, Icarus and all the rest of that. There he is in jail. His nation is at war. I mean, majorly under threat of attack, et cetera, et cetera. He was the guy who would have saved it in another lifetime. And now he's in jail.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
It comes to a sad end for him, doesn't it?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ja, das ist eine unglaubliche Geschichte. Wir haben viel davon hier erzählt, aber nur im bäuerlichsten Minimum. Das ist das, was so wichtig ist in deinem Buch. Es hat viel Freude bekommen, weil du es in einer sehr kompellingen Geschichte erzählt hast. Es ist eine kompellinge Geschichte anyway, aber du bewegst es wirklich so, wie die Spy-Story es wirklich ist. Gute Geschichte erzählt. Danke, Don.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ronald Drapkin ist der Schriftler und Experte in Spionage-Historie, Autor des Buches, über das wir so viel geredet haben. Beverly Hills Spy, der Doppelagent, der Kriegsführer, der Japan mit dem Attacken auf Pearl Harbor geholfen hat. Wir haben dieses Interview gehabt, Ron. Ich möchte dem Publikum sagen, dass Sie in Tokio sitzen, als wir sprechen. Die Ironie ist dick.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Danke, dass Sie das gemacht haben. Ich freue mich. Schön, dich kennenzulernen. Gleichfalls. Vielen Dank für das Zuhören von American History Hit. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
There is a flight of US B-17 bombers due in from California this morning, and this must be what the radar has picked up on. Neither the privates making the report nor the lieutenant offer up the numbers of aircraft indicated or expected. The flight of B-17s is only meant to be a dozen aircraft, and the radar spike suggests at least 50 incoming.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
So, though it would have just taken 10 minutes for the base to get all battleships to general quarters and all watertight enclosures secured at sea, Die Basis am Pearl Harbor bleibt in einem relativ ruhigen Zustand, als die erste Stufe von 177 japanischen Flugzeugen Oahu um 7.40 Uhr erreicht, vier Stunden nach dem ersten möglichen Warnsignal.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Um fast 10 Minuten bis 8 Uhr beginnt der japanische Flugzeugkommandant den Angriff auf Pearl Harbor. Die japanischen Bomben hängen und parken Flugzeuge auf Luftflugflügen und laufen Torpedos gegen US-Kriegsflüge. Vier Schiffen werden in den ersten fünf Minuten ergriffen. Einer davon ist die USS Arizona. 12.500 Tonnen Armut, die um 8.10 Uhr aus dem Wasser ausgelöst wird durch die Explosion.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Von bis zu acht Bomben, die das Schiff getroffen haben, hat ein Armordrücker in Sendery über 1 Million Pound, das sind 450.000 Kilogramm, von Gunpowder getroffen. Gleichzeitig ist alles von den Hauptmasten vorwärts auf Flamme, wie auch das Wasser um die Arizona, wo brennende Öl es nicht möglich macht, wegzukommen.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Die Crew, die den ersten Blast überlebt hat, rutscht, um den Blazen zu kämpfen, und evakuiert die Verletzten vom Schiff. Aber letztendlich bekommen sie den Befehl, sie zu verlassen. 1177 US-Servicemen und 68 Zivilisten haben ihre Leben verloren. Nur 334 überlebt. Feuer brennen über die Basis. Die Leute fahren mit der Hilfe von anderen, um Feuer zu kämpfen, und bewegen Gefängnisse nach Hilfe.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Against all odds, some American servicemen manage to fight back. Doris Miller, aboard USS West Virginia, moves his wounded captain to safety before firing a Browning .50 caliber anti-aircraft machine gun until he is out of ammunition. At 8.17 a.m., the destroyer USS Helm fires at and sinks a Japanese submarine at the entrance to the harbor.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
And 2nd Lieutenants Kenneth M. Taylor and George Welch, dressed in black tie from last night's Christmas party, Managed to get their aircraft into the sky from burning bombed runways. Once in flight, they shoot down seven Japanese aircraft. But the Imperial Japanese Navy are not done. At 8.54 a.m., the second wave of attacks begins. 163 more aircraft swoop in.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Angelegte Schiffe im Hafen machen für die Bomber einfache Tätigkeiten. Am Ende des Angriffs, neben der zerstörten Arizona, ist die Oklahoma zerstört, und die Kalifornien, Nevada und West Virginia sinken in den dünnen Wassern. Im Gesamtraum sind 21 US-Warships zerstört oder zerstört worden, 188 Flugzeuge zerstört und 2403 Amerikaner getötet. Nur 29 der 353 japanischen Flugzeuge wurden zerstört.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Und die anderen sind zurückgekehrt zur japanischen Fliege von 67 Schiffen, die nur 200 Meilen nach Norden von Oahu fliegen. Schiffe, von denen die Flugfliege mit alliierten Technologien und Innovationen ausgestattet wurde. Musik Musik Musik Musik Musik Grüße, liebe Zuhörer, ich bin Don Wildman und Sie hören zu American History Hit. Hallo.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Eine überraschende Geschichte über World War II-Espionage und Konterintelligenz ist in den letzten Jahren aufgewachsen. Dank der Forschung, die der Autor gemacht hat, der uns für heute zu besuchen wird.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
It is a remarkable, gripping story that exposes the shadowy work of an ex-British aviator in the Royal Naval Air Service, a decorated hero in battle and a bold pioneer in aviation, military design and strategy, who in the intervening years between the Great Wars covertly exported his expertise to the Japanese, providing intelligence critical to the developments of their flying forces, which they would then use to attack Pearl Harbor.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
The Spy was Frederick Joseph Rutland, but it's a name that would likely have faded from history, had it not been for the research done by Ronald Drabkin, who just this year released to huge praise and great reviews, Beverly Hills Spy, the double agent war hero who helped Japan attack Pearl Harbor. Ron Drabkin, welcome. You've been on a long book tour for this. Appreciate including us.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Thank you, Don. It's great to be here. I understand this was a story that actually came out of research you were doing about your own father and your grandfather's activities in military intelligence. How did this land you in an entirely different tale?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Well, we are paying them. Ja, das Hauptthema des Buches ist ein charismatischer Mann. Ich habe bereits seinen Namen erwähnt. Friedrich Rutland, der ein Spion für die Japaner werden würde. Aber er begann als Flugzeuger, wie ich gesagt habe, er ist in 1901 in der Royal Navy eingeladen, um 15 Jahre alt. Dann, um 1915, ist er ein Flugzeuger.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ich meine, das sind die ersten Tage des Flugwerks, mit Kamellen und all dem anderen. Er hat damals sein Flugzeug-Zertifikat gewonnen. Er war in 1915 aktiv auf der HMS, helft mir mit der Präsentation, Angédine, richtig? Für die Briten. Ja. Gut. Ja. Okay. Er hat verschiedene Kommentarien gewonnen. Dieser Kerl ist ein echter Talent im Militär. Kannst du mir diesen Zeitraum deines Karriers erklären?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
The island of Oahu is the third largest in the Hawaiian archipelago. mit Kauai im Nordwesten und Molokai im Südwesten. Es liegt ca. 2400 Meilen von der Westküste der USA, tief in der Ozeanpazifik. Die südlichste Küste der Insel ist charakterisiert von sandigen, palmbäckigen Beinen, die mit rockigen Kliffen verbunden sind. All das gegen einen Hintergrund von grünen, volkanischen Bergen.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ja. So he's commended for several things in this time. What you're explaining is he's the first time an airplane was used in reconnaissance, which is an interesting little factoid in battle. Also, he then receives the Distinguished Service Cross for gallantry and persistence in flying close to the enemy. But he also saves a soldier who drops into the water and he jumps in with a bowline gun. Ja.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Ja. Ja. Ja. His accomplishments have everything to do with the pioneering of flat deck aircraft carriers. That was obviously the problem in these days. They had this new idea of using air power in war. But how do you get these planes to the battlefield? You know, they can only fly a certain distance.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
The whole idea of bringing planes onto ships was going to require a whole bunch of new thinking as to how to take them off the ship, how to build ships that could do this. He becomes a very big voice in this department, isn't he?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Yeah, it's a fascinating time. I mean, I have seen pictures of, you know, when they were training pilots in the Midwest here, they had to sort of refashion ships into aircraft carriers in the Great Lakes and they would take ships and sort of build these crazy platforms on top of it. This was the beginning of all of that and
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
And people like Rutland were central to kind of envisioning this entire idea, which really takes off, no pun intended, in the process. Over a period of 10 years, they kind of come up with this whole other idea of how to create this new force. But so much for that. I mean, after the war ends, things sort of shift for him. His work becomes more questionable.
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
In den frühen 1920er-Jahre verabschiedet er sich von der Royal Air Force, die jetzt eine Institution geworden ist, und er macht die Wahl, für die Japaner zu arbeiten. Nun, ich glaube, das war nicht eine ungewöhnliche Sache. Ich meine, die Leute wurden immer als Konsultanten verabschiedet und so weiter. Aber wie hat er sich umgesetzt und warum hat er das gemacht?
American History Hit
Pearl Harbor: The Man Who Spied For Japan
Es ist idyllisch, ehrlich gesagt. Einfach auf die Internetseite zu schauen, bringt dich zu einem hohen Risiko, einen Flug zu Hawaii zu booken. But near the center of this southern coast, the calm turquoise waters flow inland into a lagoon. Here, palm trees make way for the sprawling concrete structures of Joint Base Pearl Harbor Hickam.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
This is the tactical advantage of a Grant, isn't it? He is able to keep his head cool under these circumstances, sort of check himself as to what, you know, another commander might react in retreat or something like that. He can see down the road. He can see the next day. Don't worry, we're going to take it back.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
That being said, that was a big surprise that the Confederates didn't continue on, didn't push forward, isn't it?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Yeah, this is the quartermaster Grant beginning to become the attacking general.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
He understands supply lines and all the logistics of war like no other American Union general did.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
13.000. This always amazes me with the Civil War. Like these are massive amounts of people. And what do you do with 13.000 people who give up? You know, you got to march them somewhere. This is an untold part of the Civil War that I would love to do an episode on. What do you do with the prisoners of war?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Willkommen zu einem weiteren Episode von American History Hit. Wir sind froh, dich zu hören. Ich bin Don Wildman. We are in a new year, resuming a mission begun in our last. An epic chronological odyssey through the major engagements of the American Civil War. Why did it happen? Who was there? What occurred? Who won? Who lost? And what did they gain or lose in the effort?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
White flags go up. The Union troops are surprised to see them. Glad, I'm sure. But they're being flown by Buckner's people, you know, his troops, which opens up a very interesting encounter, very telling in the war between two men who know each other, Buckner and Grant from previous days. Talk about that encounter.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
They had served together in the Mexican War, hadn't they?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Yeah, Buckner is the first Confederate general to surrender during the Civil War. I mean, these are early days. But interestingly, the last to give up command at the end of it. He serves all the way through.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Wow, interesting. Amazing. The final, you know, I was going to say nail in the coffin, which is appropriate in this case. One of Grant's requests was that there be a symbolic gesture through his funeral, that the pallbearers carrying his casket be both Confederate and Union. And Buckner was one of them.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
In today's telling, we're still in early days, in the winter of 1862, when we find ourselves in northwestern Tennessee, between the mighty Tennessee River and its parallel waterway to the east, the Cumberland. It's a place called Fort Donaldson that would tip the balance in the West for the Union. A battle that would bring a little-known Brigadier General named U.S. Grant into the limelight.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
The impact of this battle is more important than perhaps the battle itself. I mean, it really does create this new importance and urgency to the Western campaign, which I'm sure even then most Americans weren't really aware of. The American battle will now be a two-front one, you know, both in the East and the West, right?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
I always try to include the American Battlefields Trust in these episodes because the language on their website is so clear. You can see these pie graphs and so forth, and they very clearly explain that 40,702 troops were involved in this battle on both sides, an estimated 16,537 casualties, but only 2,691 on the Union.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Whereas 13,846 on the Confederate, including all those prisoners of war, I suppose, right? Correct. The Union has won this battle outright. And as we said earlier, it's the beginning of the story of unconditional surrender grant, which is no coincidence, US being his first two initials. Buckner has an interesting quote at the end of all of this, which he has written about.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Yeah, right. It points up an interesting unfolding drama, which is between Grant and his supervising officer, who was Henry Halleck. There was a lot of resistance there between them, wasn't there?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
And to explain the tactical strategies of this battle and critical consequences for both sides, I am speaking with Professor Chris Makowski. Chris is the Copey Hill Fellow at the American Battlefield Trust, our good friends. Hello Chris, welcome to the show. Don, I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for having me. I found myself staring at a map with this one, studying the geography.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
And finally down on the Mississippi River in Vicksburg. Grant was a Brigadier General at the time of this battle. He is then promoted to Major General and he will continue, of course, to be promoted from there. This is really where you begin to understand Grant as the source of a sort of modern thinking in the American military, a different kind of fighting battles.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
It was no longer going to be this chivalrous European idea that so many of the certainly Union McClellan type officers were stuck in. This was not a polite war and Grant was getting on with it.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Dr. Chris Mikowski is a writing professor at the Jandoli School of Communication at St. Bonaventure University in Allegheny, New York. Also Associate Dean for the Undergraduate Programs. He is also the Kopi Hill Fellow at the American Battlefield Trust. Nice to meet with you, Chris. I hope we meet again. There are many battles unfolding. Don, it is a pleasure.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Thanks so much for chatting with me this morning. Likewise. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
By hitting like and follow you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
We should explain what's at stake here, Chris. Kentucky, which has remained with the Union, has two major rivers that connect with the Ohio. Head due south on these rivers, you end up going into Confederate Tennessee. Control them, the Tennessee and the Cumberland, you got a straight shot into other states to the south, like Mississippi and Alabama.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
But it's ultimately Nashville that's in the crosshairs of the Union, isn't it?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Wenn wir an den Zivilkrieg denken, denken wir natürlich an diese großen Armeen. Ich meine, das war das große Thema, diese riesigen Armeen, die in unserem Land herumlaufen. Aber der Fakt ist, dass es in diesen Tagen eigentlich eine verbesserte Anwendung von Wasserwegen und especially von den Bergen gab. Es gab eine Navy, die die Union, die die Konfederaniemen, nicht anmachten konnten.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Yeah, right. So let's remind ourselves where we're at right now. Early days in the war, as I say, the last major clash between the Union and the Confederacy was Bull Run back in July, which was a huge wake-up call for the Union, a major loss. That this was going to require a real army and a larger strategy that includes a Western campaign, and that would eventually be led by Grant.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
February 6th, 1862, the Union takes Fort Henry on the Tennessee River fairly easily. Take us from that moment onward.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
But that's the geography question I have. Even though it's just 12 miles, that's a long way. And so do they have to take the boats back up to the top and then come down the other river? Is that the idea?
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
It has to do with the elevation, doesn't it? Fort Henry was very low and so those gunboats could sort of take direct aim at the installation. But over here at Fort Donaldson is a much higher elevation, so they're shooting down at those gunboats and vice versa. The gunboats have difficulty as they get closer to even getting up to them. So that's really the difference between that.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Grant was expecting a pretty easy walk here, wasn't he? He said this would be taken in two days.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Yeah, this is cold weather too. Remember, we're in February, even though it's Tennessee. I mean, Tennessee is cold in February, so this is really hard to manage, but it gets really dicey with the weather. It makes all those roads knee deep in mud, you know, all that kind of stuff that we deal with. was sich während der Kriege wirklich hier ausmacht.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
He's appointed the commander of Fort Donaldson. He does not believe any kind of retreat is necessary. He digs in here.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Es ist Februar 1862. In Fort Donaldson im westlichen Tennessee hüpfen Tausende von Konfederat-Soldaten herunter, um die Sicherheit zu schützen, hungrig und schüchtern in ihren dünnen Schuhen. Für mehrere schreckliche Tage haben sie die Union-Mitglieder beobachtet und ihre Fortifikationen umgekehrt. Mittlerweile ist der Kumberland-River, deren letzte Chance zu fliehen, mit Eis aufgelöst.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
I just want to give people the parameters here. We're talking about a big engagement. I mean, in total, there's 40,000 or so forces between these two sides. 25, upwards of 25,000 for the Union, 17,000 for the Confederates. This is a major battle we're talking about. Action really happens between February 13th and the 16th of 1862. Of course, there's days on either side of that that go on.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
But it begins, as we say, with an engagement of the gunboats coming up river approaching. That first clash sort of kicks things off. Take us through these days as they happen with Grant's thinking tactically as to how he's going to adjust.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Yeah, because later on, I mean much later on next year, we're talking about Vicksburg and that becomes an extended siege, you know, very famously. It's just a cruel bombardment of this place that Grant oversees.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
So that could very well have happened here in some form, but rather it takes a different turn because, as you say, the Confederates on February 15th drive the Union back from their positions, a place called Dudley Hill.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
Sobald die Sonne den Horizont brechen, sind Union-Gunboote auf dem Meer auf dem Fort geöffnet. Sie schlagen es durch die morgendliche Mist. Aber Union-Infanterie bleibt fest, ermöglicht die Artillerie, die Gegner zu beschädigen.
American History Hit
Battle of Fort Donelson
But oddly, their commanders, and tell me who makes this decision, send them back to their earthenworks after this day of battle, giving up the ground or at least ceding it back to the Union should they decide to take it.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Eric, Black Monday, what happens? What was the reason for that drop?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
And then it just keeps rolling because there aren't the corrective measures that have been taken in our time that can put a stop to it, right?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Die Bilder der Großen Depression sind so ikonisch. Wie viel war das die echte Bildung, was passiert war, oder war das nur zu einem Sektor dieser Gesellschaft passiert?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
It is American History Hit. You're listening to We're Glad You're Here. Let's talk about a president, the next in our series. Herbert Hoover, 31st Chief Executive of the United States, served one term from 1928 to 1932, taking the baton from Calvin Coolidge, who he had served for two terms as Secretary of Commerce, all through the boom times we call the Roaring Twenties, the Jazz Age.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
It's amazing. I mean, I was raised by Depression-era parents. I'm the youngest of five, so I got these guys, my parents, you know, World War II-era. We ate things that they had eaten when we were young. They had a mentality that was forged in those impoverished years. They weren't themselves impoverished that badly, but they saw it all around them.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
So, yes, it had a cultural impact as well as an economic one.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Well, at least you didn't have to eat chipped beef, the worst dish of all time.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
I mentioned before, his approach to crises is his reputation. You know, that's what he's built his career on, really. That and mining. So when there is this crisis, his approach will be similar in the way that he talked about things before in World War I. Let's pull up our bootstraps. Let's work this out.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
An important element of this to discuss that doesn't get enough attention is that this kind of thing happened on a regular basis in America, you know, throughout the 19th century for sure. These panics, bank panics of 1876, they go all the way back. So someone like a Hoover would see this as a repetition of a cycle, you know. So he sees America going through this the way it has in the past.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
What is different about this particular depression or this crisis than others?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Sure. He does gather business leaders together and warn them, this could be a particularly bumpy recovery. He is aware of the hill they're about to climb. But one of the things he asks for is for them to keep wages up. He requests the business leaders to keep wages up as a stopgap measure, I suppose, right?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Hoover war nichts anderes als jazzy. Ein prinzipierter Mann mit gutem Quaker-Stock. Sein war ein Horatio Alger-Story, der von seiner modesten Iowaer Kindheit hochgeklimmert war, um große Werte in seinem Leben zu erhalten. Dann hat er sein Geschäftsakument in der White House, zuerst in der Harding und dann in der Coolidge-Administration.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
And the upshot of that is that they have to fire people, right? They got to keep their books in balance. Right.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
There are many chapters to the Great Depression, obviously, but these days we think of it as one terrible error that just happened all at once. Of course, it just unfolds slowly but surely. One of the next aspects of it is the banks failing. I mean, of course, they're going to because there's no money coming into them, right? Right.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Dann kam er zu seiner eigenen Präsidentschaft, die er in einem riesigen Fluss gewonnen hat, nur um zu sehen, dass der Boden in seinem ersten Jahr im Büro droht. Black Monday, Oktober 28th, 1929, acht Monate nachdem Hoover seinen Vertrag gezwungen hat. Und es wurde nur schlimmer. Demandende visionäre Führung, starke neue ökonomische Ideen und, naja,
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
And so Hoover is at this pivotal moment when a brand new view of America is necessary, and he's a bit old school for this, isn't he?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
But that's not to diss the guy. I'm trying to explain that this is a really tough time. Yeah, this is a tough turn in America that requires a gigantic mind to really wrap itself around. And he's just on this side of that change. I mean, of course, we're foreshadowing everything that happens under FDR, which is just a few years later.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
But at this particular moment, there was reason to believe that this thing would work itself out.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Right. Well, he would have been getting the reports. And it's just getting worse and worse and worse over a period of time. One of the things that you hinted at before was the agricultural collapse, which was due to falling prices and overproduction. That's going to play out in a Grapes of Wrath sort of way. But it's a gigantic story that has a lot to do with the shift in demographics, right?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Add to this the choice to use tariffs. In 1930 he signs the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, which is designed to stimulate, as all tariffs are, to stimulate US economic growth. It totally backfires. It just makes things worse.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Heute sprechen wir über das, was es alles bedeutet, mit dem distinguished Professor of History at UC Davis, Eric Rauchway, whose book Winter War, Hoover, Roosevelt and the First Clash over the New Deal has been my guide prepping for this pod. Greetings, Professor Rauchway. Eric, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Pleasure to be here.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
And I'm just trying to sort of create a little checklist here of the various things, which now we look back on and say, gee, Herbert, please, you know, at some point you should have turned the corner here real fast. But it is a time in America when this is difficult. And he has had a lot in his life to confirm that the choices he's making and the messaging he's giving is correct.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
This man has been very successful in his life at this sort of thing. So it's a lot to ask to imagine that this guy could suddenly wake up one day and say, whew, this is tough, I gotta go to Keynesian stuff here. And, you know, that sort of change his entire strategy is impossible.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Ein typischer Ansatz auf Herbert Hoover, ruhig, unerwünscht, sogar breitgründig. Das sind die Worte, die man mit einem Cocktail-Party verwendet, wenn man sie bringt. Diese Reputation ist wegen des ökonomischen Desasters, der seine Präsidentschaft definiert. Aber Herbert Hoover, der Mann, ist eine ganz andere Geschichte.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
We crossed to the point of no return by 1931. I mean, unemployment is 25 percent at this point. Hoovervilles are all over America, these shanty towns that, you know. Well, I mean, the only reason that there was no way back is because Hoover wasn't doing what needed to be done, right? Yes. There comes to be a point, probably sometime in 31 or 32...
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Eric, it's a non-historian question, but why was this man so stubborn? What's the psychology behind all this? Was he afraid of undercutting American self-reliance?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Ich meine, seine Leben sind ein wunderbarer, Rags-to-Riches-Mann-of-Action-Tale. Let's start with his upbringing. Born in a small Iowan town to a poor family. Father is a blacksmith. And importantly, he is orphaned at a young age, which then leads to him being sent to Oregon. Tell me what defines this boy's childhood and how does he become very quickly on a new route in life?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Yeah, yeah. And was he respected by those immediately around him? And did they believe in his cause? Oh, absolutely.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Ja, der Knopf beginnt zu bewegen. Aber ironisch, ich denke, es ist sehr ironisch, er denkt, er wird gewinnen. Er ist ziemlich sicher, dass er in der 1932-Elektion einen zweiten Termin gewinnen wird. despite all of what has happened here. He does not believe in what he hears from FDR. He doesn't believe in this kind of New Deal idea that's being promoted.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
He actually doesn't like FDR at all, does he?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Hoover remains a great influence in this nation, even after he loses to FDR, throughout FDR and beyond. He advises Goldwater. It's amazing.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Yeah, and remained very healthy. But who would have been around in that 64 election or all those years but Ronald Reagan? So, I mean, in a way, Herbert Hoover resonates through Reagan and through to Trump today. We are still living with much of what Hoover promoted.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Er ist ein erstaunlicher Individuum mit einer humögen Leben. Und trotz der Verletzungen und schlechten Entscheidungen und Stubbornheit während der Großen Depression ist seine Biografie wertvoll zu verstehen. Eric Rauschway, thank you so much for joining us on this episode. We'll see you again in a future episode, hopefully to talk about FDR. Alright, I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for this one.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
I hope you enjoyed this episode of American History Hit. Please remember to like, review and subscribe. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And I'll see you next time.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
It was really because of losing his parents that he was sent to live with his uncle in Oregon. And one thing leads to the next, right? I've already mentioned this in the beginning. I mean, there's a real misconception about this guy. He was a romantic adventurer. He turns out to be all over the world, really. And it's geology that carries him there.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
He becomes a real skilled mining engineer at a time when I suppose there was a lot of that going on, right? That's right.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
He meets his wife, Lou Henry, at Stanford. And they have two boys throughout this time that they're, I mean, let me be clear, they go to China, they go to Australia, they work in Russia. They are all over the planet. And they eventually land in London, where he creates this international mining consultancy that has its headquarters in London.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
While in London, he is part of an effort to get the Americans out of Europe. It's at that time he becomes very concerned with the starvation of Europeans in Belgium. He starts this whole effort to create this thing called the Belgian Relief. Und es ist enorm erfolgreich. Es ist eine große Fliege von 600 Schiffen, die das Essen in sie sendet. Er wird ziemlich der Heroin in Europa durch dieses Ding.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Und das wird Teil seines ganzen Lebens werden. Dieser ganze Versuch, die starbigen Massen zu füllen. Yeah, this is right.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Er nennt sich der Meister der Erkrankungen, was später ein ironischer Begriff sein wird. Es ist schwer, das ohne schwere Vorstellungen zu tun. Wie ist es, dass er in die Politik eingegangen wird? Er ist ziemlich berühmt, als dieser Amerikaner, der in Europa diese außergewöhnliche Sache macht, die Massen ernährt.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
It's a scene of stark contrast. We are standing in a gathering of slumped ramshackle sheds made of corrugated cardboard, tar paper and tin sheet, clustered across the dry, dusty grounds of an empty reservoir. Residents of this hovel community loiter in the lanes and doorways, looking forlorn.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Ich glaube, die Worte sind zurückgekommen und er könnte in einer neuen Regierung nützlich sein, oder?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
Yeah, I mean, it had huge economic consequences, this whole food issue, because there was a huge inflation. I mean, remarkable inflation in America at that time, right? 40%, I read somewhere, was going on as a result of losing supplies to the European effort.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
All this against the grand backdrop of towering high-rises constructed in the boom times just a few years ago. Geographically, we're in Central Park in New York City, halfway between the east and west sides of Manhattan in a spacious area that will one day be called the Great Lawn.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
It's important to understand this as a sort of introductory idea of how he behaves in the Depression. You know, when that all hits his presidency, this messaging, this way that he handled the food issues, really becomes a big part of how he deals with the Depression issues as well.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
He gets into the administration, he's invited into the Harding administration, this guy's a big star at that point, becomes the Secretary of Commerce, a pretty new agency in those days. Of course, Harding dies. That's how he ends up in the roaring 20s as the Secretary of Commerce with Calvin Coolidge. America is changing in leaps and bounds at this point.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
There's a tremendous amount of cash that has come into this country in various ways that is fueling this economic boom that goes on for several years, for many years, all throughout Calvin Coolidge's days. And so it's no surprise that someone from his administration, who's a big star in the media, is easily elected in 1928 to basically continue this boom time onward, right?
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
When he accepts his nomination at the 1928 Republican Convention, he says this. In America today, we are nearer a final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of this land. The poor house is banishing from among us.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
We have not yet reached the goal, but given a chance to go forward with the policies of the last eight years, we shall soon, with the help of God, be in sight of the day when poverty will be banished from this nation. That's how ebullient this place was. That's how buoyant this nation was at this point. Little did they know, little did he know what was about to happen. He is elected.
American History Hit
President Herbert Hoover: Did He Cause the Great Depression?
It is eight months, I think, at the time when all the speculation that has been going on. I mean, along with this boom time has been a very, very hot stock market, which usually goes hand in hand. And there are many reasons for the Great Depression, which we will talk about. But certainly Hoover did not see this coming. Should he have seen it coming?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Ein kurzer Zeit später ist der Präsident der Vereinigten Staaten mit seinem Valet und seiner Geheimdienste in der Nähe, in einem kleinen Kreis von Protestanten, unplaniert, unprogrammiert, face-to-face mit der Basis des Lincoln Memorial. These protesters were a bit stunned. Some shook his hand. Overawed, Nixon would later describe them, remembering the incident.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Let's talk about the opening of China. Some context for anyone who doesn't understand. The Chinese Communist Revolution happened between Mao and Chiang Kai-Shek back in 1949, right after World War II. The rise of Mao and Communist China then leads to our military confrontation on the Korean Peninsula, the Korean War. Das ist alles Teil 1 von dem, was später Vietnam wird.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Nicht in einem Millionenjahren würde Richard Nixon, der Cold War-Hawk der 1940er und 50er Jahre, jemals mit Mao zu Tee trinken. Aber das ist genau das, was 25 Jahre später passiert. Es ist verrückt. Das ist das Unglaubliche an diesem Kerl. Und er muss für die Tatsache, dass er sich verändern kann, gewonnen werden. Und das war eine enorme Reise für diese Persönlichkeit.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Well, the upshot of that trip really is basically the world order we have today. I mean, it's China rising to become this communist capitalist superpower here to challenge us, really. Not to mention, they own our debt. I mean, when you look back with 2020 hindsight, did he see this coming? Did he understand what he was, the can of worms he was going to open up?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
It's hard to track it, but you figure, you know, before China is opened up, it's Japan where we get all of our cheap goods and things. And that continues for a time, including the cars especially. But it shifts over to China. And I always wondered if he knew we're going to need a place where there's cheap labor. You know, that's going to be iPhones someday, you know, whatever.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
But I always wondered if it was Richard Nixon who had that vision or was taking that advice from somebody who understood it.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
They reported Nixon telling them to travel, see the world, its architecture. He talked about football. He was quiet, murmuring at times in broken sentences. Er hat einen spirituellen Hunger innerhalb von uns alle erwähnt. Nun, hier ist das Ding. Nixon als Regierungsleiter beobachtete Protestanten. Doch hier war er, mit ihnen seine Seele zu teilen, in den Stunden vor der Sonne.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
They were sure playing the long game, boy. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. He makes all kinds of moves internationally. He's acting again as a peacemaker. Detente with the Soviet Union under Brezhnev. Finally gets traction under Nixon. Sort of began under Johnson. They signed the SALT I agreement, which reduces nuclear weapons. He also visits the Middle East, Egypt, Israel.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Fair to say he sets the table for everything that happens under Carter, right?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
You can draw a line, or maybe it's a 180-degree turnaround from George Washington in Richard Nixon. Okay, so George Washington famously leaves office saying, don't get into foreign entanglements. Whatever you do, it's trouble. And here we are with Richard Nixon, who really opens that all up. And quite deliberately.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Realpolitik is that idea that we have this role to play in the world on this grand scale.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Oh, es gibt viele. Teddy Roosevelt. Es gibt viele Plätze, wo der Präsident rauskommt. Aber Nixon, ich möchte nur sagen, in Bezug auf die Idee, was wir jetzt als Realität akzeptieren, dass wir die, wie auch immer man es definieren möchte, wir sind eine enorme Präsentation in der Welt. Nixon setzt den Knall in das. Er sagt, das ist, wie wir werden.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Domestisch drückt er etwas, was sich als Neu-Federalismus bezeichnet. Was bedeutet das?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Es ist eine berühmte Geschichte für ihre Unmöglichkeit, natürlich. Die stärkste Person auf dem Planeten, die jüngere Menschen, die ihn bescheuert haben. But it also reveals so much about Nixon's own inner contradictions. Who would take such a risk? And in the middle of the night? Richard Nixon seemed to be a man in conflict with himself.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
There must have been enormous resistance to this. I mean, the Congress was very powerful in those days. You know, Mike Mansfield, all those guys were out there and they knew how to build this kind of thing. And so to have it deconstructed was a big problem.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
But that's a question. I mean, was that political calculation or was that truly his belief? Because in fact, he does amazing things with the federal government in oversight and regulation. He creates the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA is Richard Nixon.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Yeah, well, he sure gets it in his second term. I mean, the 1972 is a startling election that really people don't talk about very much. And I was fifth grade or something like that. So I was alive well enough to know that it was an extraordinary fact of life that Richard Nixon had taken this government over in 1972. You know, George McGovern was barely in contention.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Und als Ergebnis hatte er ein gigantisches Mandat, alles zu tun, was er in seinem zweiten Termin wollte. Das ist das versteckendste Ding von allem für mich. Weißt du, warum er any of these things that they did behind the scenes and then tripped themselves up from such a gigantic accomplishment.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
His civil rights record is a checkered one. We've mentioned him in the tapes. Unsavory opinions of African Americans and others. My wife made a documentary about his opinion of public television. Und Afroamerikaner in diesem Bereich. Und Haldeman, er ist verabschiedet, zu Haldeman zu sagen, du weißt, hol diese Blacks aus der TV. All diese schwierigen Dinge, die man hört, was dieser Mann sagt.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Das ist die Gespräche über seine Persönlichkeit. Weißt du, wie viel wir wissen, der echte Richard Nixon versus diese Art von schmutzigen, dunkleren Seite zu ihm. Ich glaube, wir werden es nie wissen, wirklich, offensichtlich. Aber wo fallen Sie auf es? Ich bin sicher, ich bin interessiert.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
This is American History Hit. I'm your host Don Wildman. Greetings all. Thanks for listening. Today we return to the ascendancy of President Richard Milhouse Nixon, the nation's 37th Chief Executive. His famous downfall and disgrace is another episode, specifically episode 139 on Watergate. Find it on our series website. Most of us know how it ended for Nixon.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
I don't want to be naive. Every president has his ugly side. And Die Politik auf allen Ebenen war in Amerika für immer dreckig. Aber Nixon kristallisiert viel von dem, was wir jetzt als negativen Politik bezeichnen. Und er scheint Amerika in gut und schlecht zu dividieren. Vielleicht mehr so als jemals, in Bezug auf jeden Präsidenten.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Ich habe es erwähnt, wir werden darüber sprechen in einem Moment, sein Legacy. Aber es ist wirklich diese Dichotomie des Mannes. Weil er offensichtlich extrem intelligent ist. Er hat eine breite Vision darüber, wie... presidential politics can be used positively. But he also has this other side of him, which is sort of undermining that vision all the time. It's really extraordinary.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Not when you have J. Edgar Hoover on the other side of the street. There's a lot of skeletons in the closets.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Let's talk about his legacy, some of which we're already discussing. It is fair to say that so many of the themes we see today have their roots in the Nixon time. And that's because a lot of careers kind of started there and then carried through Reagan. und durch den Irak und alle Art von Dingen, die da geschehen sind, waren Persönlichkeiten, die durch diese Jahre hochgekommen sind.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Der Name Roger Stone ist natürlich Teil dieser Geschichte. Aber es ist das Konundrum von Richard Nixon. Ich erinnere mich an seinen Memorial-Service an der Nixon-Präsidentialbibliothek. Wir haben Teil 1 darüber gesprochen, das Weinen, das auf die Teile von Robert Dole gemacht wurde, den ich sehr beeindruckt habe. Wirklich, die Leute fühlten sich sehr stark und positiv über Richard Nixon.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
But before he served as president from 1969 to 74, his resume in Washington was so vast, we spent a part one of this interview on his prior jobs. Member of the House of Representatives from California in the 1940s. His rise as a Cold War hawk. Danach wurde er in den Senaten bezeichnet, bevor er als Vizepräsident von Dwight Eisenhower im Jahr 1952 ausgewählt wurde.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Aber auf der anderen Seite hat er alles, was er vor allem gegen ihn gefordert hatte. Wo liegt es für dich, Nicky, in Bezug auf dein Legitimum?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
He was the tipping point of executive power in the American presidency. That's my quick thumbnail on it. He pushes those limits that are, as you say, currently being tested today. Just a reminder to listeners, you can find a lot more about Nixon in our archive. The Watergate episode I mentioned, episode 139. His trip to Moscow to meet Nikita Khrushchev, episode 84. And there are others.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
I mean, this guy... It's been my pleasure. Thank you. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Bye for now.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Nixon war ein politischer Komet, der über die Firmamenten unseres föderalen Governments schießt. Und das Remnant dieses Komets ist noch heute eine Geschichte. Es ist wichtig zu verstehen, warum. Es hat viel zu tun mit der immer kritischen Balance der Macht in Washington. Professor Nicole Hemmer is our returning guest. She is a professor of political history at Vanderbilt University.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Her latest book is Partisans, the conservative revolutionaries who remade American politics in the 1990s. Hey, Nikki, thanks for coming back. Great to be back with you. Those 1990s partisans in your book cut straight from the Nixon fabric, aren't they?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Genau. Der Mann ist noch mit uns. Also in unserem vorherigen Episode, wir wurden in 1968 von Nixon ausgewählt. In der Räumlichen Mitte von Vietnam, LBJs Wahl, nicht zu fahren, die schrecklichen Verbrechen, MLK Jr. und Robert Kennedy, Reize in den Städten. Es gibt einen tectonischen Schiff in der nationalen Politik in Amerika.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Ein Drittpartei-Versuch von George Wallace und dem neuen GOP-South in der Face of the Civil Rights and Call for Law and Order. Nixon schlägt sich in die White House, um den demokratischen Vize-Präsidenten Hubert Humphrey und Wallace zu töten. Und hier sind wir. Was ist die veröffentlichte Vision seines Präsidentschafts? Er ist der neue Nixon, oder?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Hallo, ich bin Don Wildman. Willkommen bei American History Hit. Und das ist Part 2 unserer Beobachtung eines psychologisch komplexesten Mannes, Präsident Richard M. Nixon. Lass uns beginnen mit einer unwahrscheinlichen, aber erheblichen Geschichte. Es ist 10 Uhr am 9. Mai 1970. Nixon hat gerade eine gruselige Pressekonferenz über Kambodscha beendet.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
He makes a well-received speech at his first inauguration. He uses the phrase, the greatest honor bestowed is the title of peacemaker, spoken as a guy who was raised Quaker. But things will tangle up very quickly. Nixon's administration in general, I will say, will be a bold endeavor that is constantly tripped up by events or by themselves and in the worst way.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Based on his promises, he sort of has this mandate. It's not an election mandate, because that comes later with 72, but he's going to end Vietnam. He's going to restore order to American society, law and order. He's going to restore our standing in the world. So let's start with the first, Vietnam, obviously. Vietnamization is his project. Can you define that term?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Yeah, his big challenge was perception in so many ways. He wanted the United States to be perceived as withdrawing on its own terms and not dishonorably. And that becomes peace with honor, which is really a big slogan later on.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Unfortunately, he has again, and this is we're going to be constantly coming back to the fact that, you know, on one hand, there's the public perception of what he's doing, but then there's the other things that are happening behind the scenes. He secretly starts a campaign of bombing against Cambodia and broadens the war against the North Vietnamese in Cambodia in 1970.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Am I right to say, you know, at the outset of this conversation, we're really dealing with executive power here as a huge theme in the story of Richard Nixon's presidencies, of course, you know, with Watergate later on. But it also plays a part in all of these foreign policy moves that he will have.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Tage vorher wurden Protestierende am Kent State University in Ohio erschossen. Das Land ist in Schock, wütend, wütend, wütend. Nixon bleibt spät auf, um Telefonanrufe zu machen. Er hat versucht, zu schlafen, aber konnte es nicht. Um 4 Uhr schlägt er ein Rekord von Rachmaninoff so laut, dass er sein Ballett, Manolo Sanchez, aufwacht.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
As the president, it has come to this point where American power sits in the White House more than ever before.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Well, there are those who would go even back to FDR for sure, you know, as far as that kind of thing. And this is the issue today we're talking about. Anyway, when the truth about Vietnam and Cambodia comes out, of course it triggers protests. This is also happening because of the draft and all the rest. Kent State is a huge event, most notorious among many, many protests. Am 4.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Mai 1974 wurden 19- und 20-jährige Protestleute erschossen und dort getötet. Neun wurden verletzt, oft vergessen, insbesondere einer wurde permanent verletzt von den Ohio National Guardsmen, die echte Schüsse gefeuert haben. Wie hat Nixon diese Proteste gesehen?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
That was going to be my follow up right there. It really is the theme of his presidency and of the man himself, this conflicted internal conflict that's always going on, it seems.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
The fact is, the war under Nixon's presidency, as we said, continues to cost untold thousands of lives on both sides, especially from the bombing, of course, which then leads to the Pentagon Papers, 1971. And it all comes out that lying and obfuscation has been going on since, you know, as far back as Truman, really. 1973 sind die Paris Peace Talks, led by Henry Kissinger.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Und sie erreichen endlich ein Akkord und sie werden gesandt. Hat Nixon an dieser Zeit Kredite für das Bringen von Frieden? Ich kann es nicht erinnern.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
So, those peace accords had been intended to secure his peace with honor, but that totally failed within two years. How did Nixon react to that? I guess that happened in the Frost interviews, right?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Nixon's presidency is most notably about foreign policy, which is interesting and ironic, I suppose. We'll talk about that later. But it's what sets the Nixon presidency apart and why so many Americans still look back fondly on this man. China, most famously, as we've already mentioned. Did Nixon ever explain what it was about foreign policy that would become his great legacy? Why him?
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
Manolo findet den Präsidenten, der aus dem Fenster in die Dunkelheit stürzt, in Richtung einer Begründung von Protestanten auf dem Nationalmall. Nixon dreht sich um und fragt, ob Manolo jemals am Abend am Mall besucht hat.
American History Hit
The Fall of Richard Nixon
But that had happened as he was a Vice President. He was really Ike's man on the ground as far as these foreign trips go.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
In 68, how much is he dividing himself from the so famous trauma of everything that's happened five years ago versus what's ahead for them? I mean, how much of it is he serving the legacy of his brother at this point?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Ich spreche natürlich von Robert F. Kennedy, der, wie sein berühmtes Bruder, von einem Assassinsbullet gestorben ist. Kennedy's short campaign for the presidency happened in a crucible. It was 1968. There was the ongoing civil rights struggle as black, brown and indigenous Americans stood their ground against discrimination and poverty.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
The race we're about to talk about, I mean, sadly ends after just a few months, but so I want to just put a pin in what we were talking about there for a moment. He was the Attorney General under his brother's administration. That's an extraordinarily powerful position, of course, as we know, but also he has a deep knowledge of the levers of power, the legal levers of power in this country.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
It's an extraordinary opportunity he has because he understands so much more than perhaps your average presidential candidate. He really knows how the levers work. So 1968, the campaign officially begins in Indiana. Who is he running against in these Democratic primaries?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Das ist eine der größten Dinge, die während der Verurteilung von Martin Luther King passieren. Und das ist April 4th, 1968. RFK erhält eine sehr berühmte Rede und Antwort. Wo tut er das? Und was sagt er in dieser Rede?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Massive riots occurred across the nation, in Watts 1965 after Malcolm X was murdered, in Detroit, Newark, Buffalo 1967, and in 68 of course after Dr. King met his sudden end on a Memphis balcony.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He has such an empathetic tone to his voice. It's such a warm tone. And it does immediately smack of a sense of love, honestly, is what you feel from him and from the audience, which at that moment is extraordinary to feel. And maybe I'm projecting, but it seems palpable.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Es ist eine traurige, traurige Währung, traurige Kapital, aber das ist, was er hat, wenn die Leute wissen, was er durchgegangen hat und das ganze Land mit ihm durchgegangen ist.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Die Ironie, natürlich, ist, dass Robert Kennedy als Attorney General Teil des Wiretapping Kings war. Ich meine, die zwei Männer waren Allies, aber nie Freunde.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
These horrific events of civil unrest in those years seemed to finally culminate in a fateful evening at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, where Robert Kennedy and his supporters celebrated victory in the California primary.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Was RFK aligned with LBJ, all the Great Society programs? Did he agree with how those were being deployed?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Most predicted he would secure the Democratic nomination later that summer and face off against his brother's arch rival, Richard Nixon, a race seen by many as redemption for his family. in some ways for his brother's killing.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Isn't it extraordinary to reflect on how different people thought then of what the government could do in an activist mode? People today, certainly young people, just have no idea how it felt in the 60s about the government fixing things. There was great enthusiasm. There was a belief that things would happen.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
And whether you agree with those programs or not, the world is an entirely different place today than it was then. I mean, you have to imagine incredibly difficult slums and Really horrible conditions in the cities that were being reacted to by the government. And we, at least my parents, I know, put their faith in the fact that the government could do something about that.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
The next three primaries after Indiana are Washington, RFK wins with 62% of the vote there. Nebraska, he wins again, 51%, closer contest. And Oregon, McCarthy won that one with 43%. It's important to note that Eugene McCarthy was really, he staked out the ground of anti-Vietnam for years before that.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He really, you know, he had a huge support among college students, who can't vote, by the way, the 21 and... It's not 18 until 1971. But then comes California. Let's talk about this race in California, a much more conservative state than it is today. It wasn't the pure blue that we know it today. What's at stake out there for him?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
But over the months, Kennedy's candidacy evolved into something greater, something more, an evolution, politically, yes, but also an evolution of a man, into an important cultural icon, one endeavoring to heal a fractured nation. Alas, it was not to be.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Yeah, Watts happened the year R.K. was elected as Senator. What has been his reaction to the rioting in the cities over these years?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Es war sincer. Das war das Gefühl, das die Menschen hatten. Es war mehr als nur ein Wanderer für das Votieren. Es war ein genügendes Verständnis und Sincerität darüber, dass wir es verstehen. Das muss ändern. Und ich habe einige Ideen, um es zu ändern.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
We discussed this campaign and what led up to it with Professor Patricia Sullivan, an historian of the Civil Rights Movement and author of Justice Rising, Robert Kennedy's America in Black and White. Welcome, Patricia. Nice to meet you. Great to meet you, Don. Please call me Pat. Okay, thank you. What was RFK campaigning for in 1968 during these primaries?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
There's a photo that my producer has sent me of RFK campaigning in the Watts neighborhood of Los Angeles. You can see in just his posture, he is utterly approachable, he's right there on a flatbed as we say, a humility, which is, and that's a Kennedy we're talking about. I mean, Maybe it's the younger brother thing, but it's not how people saw him in the JFK administration, by the way.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He was a real pitbull. I mean, he was he was understood to be a real gnarly guy back then. I always think of like how Rahm Emanuel was depicted in the early days of the Obama administration. Real prickly, you know, that's how RFK was seen back in those days. But this is a different man who's running for president. And Hands outstretched and shaking and a smile on his face.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
There's a demeanor of empathy, as we've said. I guess that's the main theme of this conversation, isn't it?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Er gewinnt die Kalifornien-Primarie mit 46 Prozent des Votums am 4. Juni 1968. Und das ist, als die furchtbaren Dinge passiert sind. Bevor wir in die Events dieses Verbrechens reisen, lassen sich die Zuhörer nur daran erinnern, was wir gesagt haben. Erinnere dich an diesen Moment, den dieser Mann erreicht hat, wo er eine Art Hoffnung für eine Nation gibt, die gerissen ist.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Und die Menschen sehen in Kennedy eine echte Chance. Es gibt einen Weg aus vielen der Probleme, die wir haben. Keine zwei Trader sind gleich.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He doesn't enter the race until February, March, because everybody assumes Johnson will run for re-election, right?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
My thanks to all of you and now it's on to Chicago and let's win there. He's standing at the podium and he's giving this victory speech, at which point he thanks the supporters and heads back into the kitchen. And I'll throw it to you, Pat, to take it from there.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
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American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
RfK, was bedeutet das? Robert Francis Kennedy? Robert Francis Kennedy. Das ist richtig. Vergesst nicht, du hast JFK und RfK, ich meine, es gibt viele FKs. Ich sollte einen Moment nehmen, um zu sagen, dass wir über diese erstaunlichen Zeiten sprechen. Ich meine, ich war in diesen Tagen eine kleine Person, aber ich erinnere mich, wie beschlossig die Events waren.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
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American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Es waren sehr, sehr schwierige Zeiten. Und nicht nur, wie ich in der Eröffnung sagte, über den Zivilrechtsmovement, aber Vietnam is going on. There's all sorts of trouble happening all the time. And only five years before this, a president was assassinated, which is something we can't really conceive of these days. It hasn't happened for so long. But into this fray, really, is what RFK is about.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He's jumping into this as a healing force. That's kind of the purpose of his campaign, isn't it?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Hello all, just a note for me before we get into this. This episode contains outdated strong language, which has been used for historical context and accuracy. That night at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, standing in that crowd cheering, you were part of something big. A movement, a mission, a blooming spirit of hope, a presidential campaign that had stirred the soul of a nation.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Kennedy wartet auf LBJ. Ich schätze, es gab Backroom-Diskussionen. Ich meine, zumindest Indikationen, dass LBJ aussteigt. Oder war RFK so überrascht wie die anderen von uns?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Hatte er originally die Intention, Präsident zu werden oder nicht?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
People forget how radical his campaign was. I mean, they're sort of blinded by the Kennedy in this. It was for racial equality, economic justice and to bring an end to the Vietnam War. All these were extreme positions in this day.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Really important, to your point, to remember this time as differently than the ones we live in today. I mean, you had America at the peak of its superpower, basically, just beginning to get towards the 70s, when all that started to be called into question. But the economy was powerful, certainly in the first half of the 60s. There was a sense of great possibility.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
was mit Johnson and the Great Society geschah. All that is in the air these days. And like you said, there's as much positive as negative in terms of societal changes that are happening here. So he's really the man for the times. I mean, it's really remarkable. I remember that as just a kid. You know, his young face and all the sort of Kennedy legacy going on there.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
It was just an extraordinary moment. And Und so viel, wie wir in dieser Konversation diskutieren, passiert innerhalb seines Kandidats. Es ist wirklich interessant. Sie machen einen Robert Redford-Film basierend auf ihm. Der Kandidat. Es war so ein Zeitpunkt. So, let's talk about what he's fighting against, these embedded inequalities and racism.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He's basically speaking to white people about things needing to change, right?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Yeah, there are very famous moments in this evolution, primarily on race politics, really. I mean, his meeting with James Baldwin and other black cultural leaders, May 24th, this is back in the 63, before he's running. Yeah, there's a famous conversation with Jerome Smith, who's a young bus rider back in the Freedom Rides, this polemic against the government.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
I mean, that whole period, these Freedom Rides and all that sort of thing, is really an extraordinary event. Das ist eine sehr gute Idee in diesem Land, wo so viele Schüler, besonders und andere Menschen, nach Süden gehen, um mit der Registrierung von Votern zu arbeiten. Kennedy ist bewusst von all dem, aber er wird einen großen Schritt machen.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Ich meine, er wird Attitüden entwickeln während dieser Zeit, die wirklich um die Rasse in Amerika verändern.
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
He becomes Attorney General during Kennedy's presidency. How does that time shape him?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
On this show, of course, we always talk about the 1860s and 70s as the time of so many changes in the Constitution and so forth. But this is 100 years later. So this is the centennial. I don't remember it being articulated in that fashion, though. How much were the Kennedys aware of this time period as being so meaningful?
American History Hit
Bobby Kennedy: Assassination of a Future President
Hallo und grüßt euch, das ist American History Hit, ich bin Don Wildman, glücklich, dass ihr hört. Heute ist eine Geschichte von einer fast Präsidentschaft, einer Präsidentschaftskampagne, die in tragischen Verhältnissen endete, ähnlich in manchen Fällen zum Tod des eigenen Bruders des Kandidaten, in dem er seine ehemalige Administration vertraut hat.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
But in typical fashion, Jimmy Carter was, well, he just went on living to the point that most of us forgot he was in hospice care. The man had spunk. No matter what your political affiliation, you have to give him that. And then his wife, First Lady Rosalind Carter, also full of vim and vigor into her elder years. Well, she passed on November 19th, 2023, 96 years old.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And he had already started that under his governorship. How many terms was he governor?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
He had a reputation. I mean, there's a lot of duality about this guy, and certainly his demeanor is just largely a PR effect. He was an intense guy, as you said, also considered arrogant by many in those circles, yes?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And once more, we all felt badly for President Carter, who at 99 was somehow able to attend his wife's memorial services in Atlanta. Jimmy Carter, president, governor, farmer, engineer, Navy man, husband, father and son, has left an indelible mark upon the American landscape and the world.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
It's always surprising me, you know, how involved he was. I mean, so much of his brand was the outsider coming from nowhere. In fact, he was very much involved in really shaping the Democratic Party even before he became president. He was chair of the Democratic Governors Campaign Committee. 1974 campaign chairman of the Democratic National Committee. He was in the works.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Tough time to do that with. I mean, there was a lot of shifting going on all over the place. It's arguable that his presidency would never have come to pass without what had happened before. A complete collapse of public trust in the presidency coming off of Watergate. There was a whole reconfiguration being done in the electorate. 1976, he's elected post-Watergate election.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
How did he utilize that time? Was he the source of that branding? Did he understand the value of being an outsider?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And today we celebrate this American president by examining his life and times to come to some fresh understanding of what his presence has meant to our nation and ourselves now that his days have finally waned. We do this guided by the wisdom and experience of Jonathan Alter, author of the definitive biography of the man, his very best, Jimmy Carter, A Life, published by Simon & Schuster in 2020.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
His presidency is a very complicated time, mostly because the country is in a complicated moment. There's shifting ground under his presidency like maybe no others. I mean, it was really a different cultural moment going on there. It definitely starts with the election that he's defeating the guy who pardons Nixon. He comes in with this fresh, clean slate idea. I remember that.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I was 14 years old. We kind of bought that and then we kind of didn't. Like it seemed like a bit of a sales job. And he was not the greatest salesman of himself, which was unfortunate because you knew he was really smart. That had come across in all the magazines and so forth. But it was a slow start and a difficult kind of thing to peddle, right?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
There's so many eras to talk about in what we have limited time to do. I want to be sure to cover Israel and Egypt. The camp date of the Accords. Had he come into the presidency with that desire or was he responding to events of the day?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Welcome to the podcast, Jonathan Alter. I feel lucky to meet you.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
It has been a long, long time with Jimmy Carter and four and a half decades since he was president. For many of us living, Carter's post-presidency was as much of his presidency, really. You have kindly agreed to take us through his lifespan, starting at the beginning with perhaps, in my opinion, the most unlikely biographical fact that he was from Georgia.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I remember so well the hopefulness of that moment of those guys shaking hands. It is a remarkable absence, though, culturally. There hasn't been the kind of coverage in the popular media, the movies and so forth. We just haven't ever seen that really covered in a big movie, for instance, even though you have huge stars, Sadat, et cetera. And yet it was such a massive thing and it still works.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Every one of these, I guess this is probably true of most presidencies, but every one of these bullet points on my list here is the tip of a massive iceberg. That's just all kinds of things involved. The SALT II Treaty, 1979. Of course, Afghanistan and the cancellation of our participation in the 1980 Olympics. The list goes on, and we'll get in a moment to the hostage crisis.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
But they're all huge deals that all took place within those four years. I mean, this is a one-term presidency, which is remarkable.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
How much of Carter's Southern childhood set him up for this amazing life in the public and the politics?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Sure, which is inherited. And this is always the case with presidencies. Your first term is what you deal with from the previous terms. These were conditions that were taking place in the early 70s. We associate them with Jimmy Carter. I mean, he's been painted with this brush that he was the creator of this economy. Not even the case.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Not the least of which happens in 1979. Again, this has lots of preceding events that have nothing to do with Jimmy Carter, one of which is the Iranian revolution against the Shah, which, you know, we could argue another way about that.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
But nonetheless, the unthinkable happens and American hostages are taken by a revolutionary government and we are held hostage as a nation for over a year, 444 days. All of this, a terrible experience for everyone. How many times we saw Nightline and all those, you know, day to day discussions of this terrible tragedy and this terrible embarrassment. All that gets attached to Jimmy Carter.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
How do you get elected with that? That's the toughest thing anybody's had to do at the end of their terms.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Just exacerbating the American opinion of their president. I remember that very well. Just shaking one's head in the morning as you heard what had happened the night before.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Mission accomplished. Those hostages were all safe. Now we've seen that movie. Everyone knows there was a good ending, but boy, did it just put the nail in the coffin as far as Carter's presidency is going. But that's the beautiful thing about this story. If we may end on an up note here, Jimmy Carter surprises everyone.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
He goes on living and he embraces his post-presidency to a point that very soon afterwards, there's a real tilt. I would imagine if there's such a thing as approval ratings of ex-presidents, his must have been soaring, right?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I think you're already answering my question. Did he see this post-presidency ambitiously? Did he understand that he was going to have the effect that he had? Or was this just the organic actions of a good man who wants to do good things?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
You've met him how many times, Jonathan?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Yeah. He was a work in progress, I think, right?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Yeah, I think that the mistakes he made will fade with time, and the actions of his post-presidency especially will have the effect of burnishing his legacy, along with the good works that you have done. He was married for 77 years. Let that be a lesson to us all. It can be done. Remarkable man.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Interesting. Well, thank you very much. I think you've started the conversation right there. Jonathan H. Alter is an American journalist, bestselling author, Emmy award-winning documentary filmmaker and television producer who was a columnist and senior editor for Newsweek magazine. In the Good Old Days, 1983 until 2011. He wrote his very best, Jimmy Carter, A Life.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Interviewed 250 people who worked or knew Jimmy Carter. He's interviewed the man many times. Jonathan has also interviewed nine out of ten of the last presidents. I have a feeling we'll be talking to you again before too long. Thank you so much, Jonathan. It was a pleasure to meet you.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
After the break, I'll be joined by author Jefferson Cowie to talk about some of the highlights and challenges Carter faced while in office. In the grand scheme of the 20th century in America, each decade seems to have a very definite identity. The roaring 20s, the 30s, and the Great Depression. The 40s are World War II, 50s Cold War, 60s rock and roll. Even the 80s are big hair and junk bonds.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I'm oversimplifying, of course, but it's really to make a point about the 1970s, a complicated decade of American history, which leaves even those of us who were alive at the time wanting for a label to hang our hats on. Was it Ford Pintos and Watergate? OPEC and recession? Disco and Studio 54? Well, how about Vietnam and the hostages in Iran?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Well, bigger thinkers than I have worked on this cultural question, and we have one with us today. Jefferson Cowie offered the book Stayin' Alive, the 1970s and the last days of the working class, and won the Pulitzer Prize for Freedom's Dominion, a saga of white resistance to federal power. Welcome, Jefferson. We need perspective. I'm happy to be here and I'll see what I can do.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Every presidency is a mirror of its times. Jimmy Carter was certainly ours back in the 1970s. He was, in various ways, managing a transition. Fair to say, a transformation from one idea of American society to the next. Do you agree with that?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
It really starts with a tremendous amount of cynicism. It is set up by the great hope, certainly of the early 1960s, with this booming economy and things are pretty clear for America in those days. And then, of course, really every decade cleaves down the middle when you think about it. It's a carryover from the previous one. Then we define ourselves.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
The 70s starts with the cynicism from Watergate, from Vietnam. all the leftover stuff. And really, it's the rise of resistance against all the liberalism that was so apparent in the 60s. The silent majority, which really elects Richard Nixon in a landslide in 72. That's how it all starts out. And things start to change a little bit in the middle part of that time.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
How does it go for Jimmy Carter when he gets into power?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I don't want to gloss over this stuff. I mean, you're talking about my early teenage years here. I want to really identify the fact that something major was happening. We had an America that was really soaring, certainly after World War II. It was kind of what my parents expected it to be. They were FDR Democrats. And the right people were in power as far as we were concerned.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Maybe Nixon tilted it the wrong way for them. But it was a very hopeful time that I had an early life in. When things go wrong, we get presidential commissions on TV, the rise of the press. We have an enormous amount of information coming to us that we never had before. And it starts to infiltrate the American consciousness that we've been, as you said, lied to.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And this government is not to be trusted. And in some way, if I may editorialize for a moment, in some ways that was correct as well. Like that was a confirmation of the fact that we lived in a world where we could not trust the government. But then it started to go sour and it gets really, really sort of just a negative.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And that's where Carter comes in, because he's able to sort of address this with this honest small town farmer guy. It's just ironic that he was from the South, right? I mean, he's a completely outsider as far as the North's concerned.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
He's more of an insider than we give him credit for, though. He's the Democratic machinery. I mean, he's the head of the Democratic Party, right, before he becomes president?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
He goes up against Gerald Ford, of course, who's coming off of a real honker, you know, of pardoning Richard Nixon. I remember the moment of the gasp when that happened. I think I was in a football stadium or something. It might have been a day when the college was playing in the town next door. And there was literally a gasp as people got the word that he had done this.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
That's how America felt about that action. So Ford was not the strongest candidate.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
In our brief conversation today, I'm going to be flashing back to the 70s in these days. I mean, there are so many events, I literally had to print out a timeline just to remember what all was going on in those days. It's incredible. I mean, there's everything from ERA, the women's rights movement, to, of course, the OPEC rise, to gay liberation.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I'm literally looking at pages saying anti-war movement. Watergate scandal. It's just one of these crazy times when there's just one thing after another. And like I said before, we have news organizations making their hay on this stuff. Careers are being built on steering us left and right through this whole thing. It's incredible.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Saved us from ourselves. His sort of spiritual quality, he has this kind of ministerial presence to us back then. At least that's how he was marketing himself. What I found refreshing about him, frankly, as a probably 14, 15-year-old, was that he was willing to call it out.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
You know, he knew that we were coming off this wave of things going wrong in America, and he wanted to attribute it to causes that we could identify and fix. What that eventually leads to is ourselves, which was a very dangerous choice to make as a president.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I found it refreshing. I remember it. I remember going, good for you, man. You know, yeah, we got problems. And, you know, it's the oldest thing in the therapy book is don't blame anyone else for your problems. Look at yourself. And he was basically calling that out.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Do you think that if OPEC had not formed and prices had not gotten so high, what would his presidency have been like, do you think?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
So domestic things are a constant shifting ground underneath of his presidency and underneath of all of us back then. It was just a sense of insecurity in the country, which he tried to address in his way, for better or worse. Internationally, he was more successful. The Camp David Accords and all of that negotiation, did that fall into his lap or did he really make that happen?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Hello, everyone. Welcome to this special episode of American History Hit. Well, it was sad to get the news. President Jimmy Carter, our 39th and longest lived president of the United States, died at the age of 100 while at home in Plains, Georgia.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Also that he was an opportunity for them. I mean, certainly for Sadat, who'd been around for a while, and coming off of Nixon and coming off of Kissinger, all that stuff was so hard to deal with for those guys. Suddenly there's this man with kind of a clean slate. It's a chance for them to get on with things.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I mean, to Sadat's demise, you know, it's just not a, doesn't work out well for him at all.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Interesting. And still one of the longest or perhaps the longest treaty still in play. You know, it's a remarkably durable thing, given the reality of what we've been living with just recently. It's incredible.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Let me get to that in a moment, because that really is the final moment. I just want to mention the fact that Panama, he concludes the matters with Panama, gives that country the canal, certainly with lots of conditions involved. The Olympics with Soviet Union held the line there. Very, very moral stand. Really got a lot of support for his actions in that regard, didn't he?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I think it played out in his favor, though. I really do. Yeah, it probably did. In the final tally, the Soviet Union obviously didn't work out for them. No, it was a disaster. Yeah, that was one of the first major international blows that kind of tipped them off the edge there.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
The big problem at the end of his term, this really has its roots in the Shah's eventual death, the revolution against him. Khomeini comes into power and all of that, which takes hold in that 78, 79 time period. And the students take the hostages into custody.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And suddenly Jimmy Carter has to deal with something no American president should ever have to deal with in the American people's view and can't resolve it. I'm curious how that went on so long for Carter. What was it in his mechanisms that he wasn't capable of finishing that off so fast?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Everything that he had tried to do, every step in the process of redirecting this country, which is, you know, sort of the theme that we started talking about at the beginning of this conversation. Gone. Gone. Utterly gone. Right. For me, it was I remember it was gone when the helicopters went down. I mean, that was like, oh, my goodness. You know, like even the supporters.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Then again, his legacy then becomes this four and a half decades of post-presidency, which frankly replaced the presidency in most people's minds. This man just never gives up. And he's a tremendous humanitarian. He's involved in monitoring elections. He just keeps popping up. And he's a good guy. We always felt that about him, basically.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
And suddenly he's making differences in the world as only an ex-president can really do.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Which speaks to the man himself. And I want to go out on that note, because I don't think he saw himself defined by the presidency, which is what I admire about him. So many people who strive for that position of power, that kind of level in whatever world they're in, really walk away from it, you know, carrying that mantle with them. And he never needed to do that.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Never forget, he won a Nobel Peace Prize. Only four presidents have won that, including Roosevelt, Wilson, and Obama. Wrote many, many books. Contributed to all of us knowing about Habitat for Humanity. Like nobody heard of that before Carter started showing up with a hammer and nails. You know, he's an amazing guy that way. Not a bad poet either. Seriously, his poetry is pretty good.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I have not encountered the poetry. I now know where to look. Jefferson Cowie is an American historian, author, and academic. James G. Stallman, professor of history and director of economics and history major at Vanderbilt University. I just want to mention and congratulate you again on the 2023 Pulitzer Prize that you've won. Well done, sir.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Thanks for listening to this special episode of American History Hit. If you liked what you heard, please don't forget to follow wherever you get your podcasts. Much appreciated. Also, if you like learning about U.S. presidents, why not check out our series, which deep dives into each of the U.S. presidents from Washington all the way up to number 32, where we're at now, FDR.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
We're making our way through all 46, so please follow and please never miss an episode. Thanks for listening. Normal American History at Programming will resume from tomorrow.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Interesting. So many of us make up for things we lacked when we were young later on, if you get to live a long enough life. Humble beginnings. I think that's an important thing to put a pin in because that will play out in his attitudes throughout his presidency. He's also a very successful Navy man, right?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
In today's episode, this special episode, we're going to look back at the life and legacy of Jimmy Carter, who served in the White House from 1977 to 1981. And for this, I'm joined by two special guests, experts Jonathan Alter and Jefferson Cowie. First up, Jonathan, who authored Carter's biography. Normal American History at Programming will resume from tomorrow. Hello to all.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
Well, that's a foreshadowing event, isn't it?
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
It's pretty astonishing when you look at this young guy's resume, how he might have envisioned this to happen. Because, I mean, you come from those kinds of beginnings. He's out there in the rural country, yet seeing himself doing what he does. I guess World War II had a lot to do with it. It made that story for a lot of young men back then, including my own father.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
But it launches him into a much bigger vision of life, which he had to have had himself. We didn't even mention some fact I've got on a sheet here. When he was 13, he bought five houses in Plains, which he then put on the market at bottom prices because of the Depression and all that, but then rented them out. I mean, this was a savvy kid.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
This is a very smart individual who was, you know, at the top of his class.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
There's an interesting story about the Navy. While in Bermuda, he was invited, his British officials invited the white-only crew members to a party. Carter urged everyone to refuse that invitation. He was already beginning to shape up his outlook on that.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
This is American History Hit, and I'm your host, Don Wildman. Glad you're listening. This week, sadly, we are saying goodbye. Former President Jimmy Carter has reached the end of his lengthy life of American service. The longest living U.S. president in history. Back in February 2023, when it was announced that he had entered into hospice care, we all braced for the end then.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
I'm curious how he went from desiring to be an engineer, also had a peanut farm to run, how he ends up choosing politics.
American History Hit
Remembering Jimmy Carter: Life & Legacy
How did his political career intersect with the changing Democratic politics down there?
American History Hit
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American History Hit
Japanese in America
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American History Hit
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American History Hit
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American History Hit
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American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
No kidding. We should probably define the difference between North Vietnamese and Viet Cong, which a lot of people are confused about.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
And why weren't the North Vietnamese, in the end, persuaded? This critical chapter we discuss today with a former guest of our show, Professor Pierre Asselin, who occupies the Dwight E. Stanford Chair in American Foreign Relations in the Department of History at San Diego State University. Nice to be with you again, Pierre. Thanks for coming on. My pleasure, Don. Good to be back.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
So many of them went down there as part of that operation of the passage to freedom, which under Eisenhower we had sponsored at great expense.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Right. But along with them came some 100,000 Viet Cong fighters.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
It's complicated stuff. I mean, anyone who sort of knows Vietnam to be a confusing matter, this is why it's so long in development.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
In these peace talks, what are the U.S. objectives? I'll start you off. Release of American prisoners of war, obviously.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Let's put this all in context. When Nixon first runs for election in 1968, he promises an, quote, honorable end to the war in Vietnam. What then evolves into peace with honor, a campaign slogan in 1972. And right there is the dilemma. It will take eight years. for the failure of our efforts in Vietnam to finally resolve themselves. And in the end, it comes under Nixon's successor.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Well, that's the that's the irony of this whole thing or even contradiction in terms, because it's a peace talks. But we're doing it knowing the war is probably going to continue on. And indeed, we're trying to to strengthen our side so that they can continue on. The other side isn't even interested in peace or they're interested in getting us out so that they can take over.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
So we weren't trying to create a North and South Korea? We weren't trying to replicate that situation?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
I don't want to open this can of worms, but I got to ask you, did the French want us to do what we did?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
What were the major factors that logjammed this process?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
We're coming back to that in a future episode because that's good stuff. All right. So we know what the Americans want. We want a release of the American prisoners with withdrawal without formal capitulation. We're not going to surrender. We're not going to keep our honor in place. A preservation of credibility is really what we're trying to accomplish. and strengthening the South Vietnamese.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
What about the North Vietnamese? What are they really saying in public that they are trying to accomplish?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Eventually, they conclude this process in 1973. A military aspect of this really puts pressure on this, doesn't it? The offensive against South Vietnam in that time period in 72 did not work out for the North Vietnamese. The Americans just want to get out of there. Is that fair to say? Yeah.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Yes. And this stalemate leads to the Paris Peace Agreement, 1973, January 27th, 1973, an agreement on ending the war and restoring peace in Vietnam is how they publicize it.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
It puts into action what consequences? The Americans start withdrawing immediately?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
So that's what I want to ask you. So, I mean, smart people are at this table, Henry Kissinger among them. They knew what was going to happen after the Americans left, right? They knew this wasn't going to be the end of the war.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Did they feel in that real politic way like the game had shifted at this point? We've proven our point. We're not going to let communism just run havoc around the world anymore. as proven by a 20-year commitment here, or at least a 15-year commitment, I suppose. And therefore, we are willing to go with this compromised peace idea because we'd made our case.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
At the same time, we've also drawn closer to Moscow. We have these other relationships. China is open. All of that's the real politic of the side. So it's sort of the Vietnam War, so-called, is subsumed by all that, as you say.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
And were those objectives worth the cost is really when you get into the hairy stuff.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
So this uncorks another aspect of this conversation, which is this enormous refugee problem that happens. You know, the famous boat people and just all kinds of emigration that has to take place. It really changes the world for real. And even on this end of things in the United States.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
It's an extraordinary thing. It was kind of the last of its kind, this sort of famous negotiation, Paris peace talk, you know, everybody at the table kind of thing. War is a much more complicated and strange affair now than it used to be. And I think we can track that back to Paris, can't we, 1973?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
It is still instructive, isn't it? And I hope listeners have learned a lot. Professor Pierre Asselin is the Dwight E. Sanford Chair in American Foreign Relations. at the San Diego State University. Pierre, if I heard you talking, I would want to know more about what you do. Where can people find that?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Oh, careful what you ask for. I'm going to plug your book nonetheless. A Bitter Peace, Washington, Hanoi, and the Making of the Paris Agreement, as well as Hanoi's Road to the Vietnam War, 1954-1965. That is why this man knows so much. Thank you so much, Pierre. There's got to be more to talk about. We'll be back with you soon.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Hello, folks. Thanks for listening to American History Hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content like mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Bye for now.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Yeah, we often talk about it on this podcast. Korea, part one, Vietnam, part two. That's really rough, but I mean, that's kind of the idea. So the idea was to emerge from this with our credibility intact in order to continue the fight against the dominoes falling, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Inside, delegates from the United States, South Vietnam, the Viet Cong, and North Vietnam formally sign an agreement ending the war and restoring peace in Vietnam. Tomorrow, on the 28th of January, at 8 a.m., there will finally be a ceasefire. The U.S. will get to work withdrawing their troops and dismantling their bases, and the North Vietnamese will release their prisoners of war. Peace at last.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
That is the first time I've ever heard a parallel there. That's interesting.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Well, and fittingly, I suppose this whole conversation will end up in Paris because that's where this whole accord is negotiated, the Paris peace talks. But before we get there, the first play for peace happens under Johnson after the New Hampshire primary in 1968 when he, Eugene McCarthy, had done so well that...
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Johnson actually, in reaction, halts the Rolling Thunder bombing campaign on March 31st, 1968. So how then do negotiations develop from there?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
January 27th, 1973, the Hotel Majestic, Avenue Cléber, Paris' 16th arrondissement. a palace, one of Paris' most luxurious grand hotels, government office for the Ministry of Defense, the head office of UNESCO. This many-storied building has lived many lives. Today, it gains another string for its bow.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Did they see us as a furtherance of the colonization? Were we the next colonizing power to come in after the French?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
That would be a terrible thesis to get out there for us because that was our past as well. We decolonized ourselves and great sympathies would rise up in their favor.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Was Nixon aware of that? I mean, did we have intelligence that they perceived Johnson as weak?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Was Nixon extending an olive branch from the beginning? Was there a strategy to, I'm going to keep this up or else? Or was that kind of behind the scenes only?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Hello, listeners. Glad you're with us. I'm Don Wildman, and this is American History Hit. It's 2025, the 50th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, when North Vietnamese forces took the capital of the South, effectively ending America's involvement in that country's civil war.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
Was he approving others' plans? I mean, this was a military initiative, I imagine, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
It always struck me as strange that this ends up happening in Paris. I know the greater meaning of it, but that seems to be a darker one for the North Vietnamese and complicating. I never understood that.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
The events of the war have been examined so many times in scholarship and media, yet one aspect of this period often escapes notice. Our exit plan for withdrawal. I'm not talking about Hueys on the embassy roof. All that's in a previous episode of ours. Today, we explore the more official pursuit to achieve Nixon's peace with honor. What deal did we mean to strike? What were the objectives?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
It's an extended procedure. How long do the Paris peace talks take? It's about four years.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
So I remember the table thing that really does emerge, you know, that. There was an argument over the shape of the table being symbolic of who's in charge of those talks, you know, or who's, is it a round table or a rectangular one is what it came down to. And they ended up a round one.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The End of the War?
So who's at the table? I mean, obviously, the U.S., North Vietnam, and South Vietnam. Anyone else?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Lass uns über die Mitglieder sprechen. 1997, als das passiert ist, sind es 39 von ihnen, die für diese Reise gehen. Also, das wächst nie in einen massiven Bewegungsprozess. Es ist ziemlich selekt. War das geplant? Wollten sie klein bleiben?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Dieser Komet, namens Hale-Bopp, ist auf dem nackten Auge sichtbar. Aber er wird hier auf der Erde keinen Einfluss haben. Nur nicht in der Weise, wie man es erwartet hätte. Don Wildman hier, willkommen zu American History Hit. The story of cults in America is a long and twisted chronicle of extreme visions and extraordinary personalities leading their flocks of followers.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Well, I mean, I don't want to endorse these views, but at least it was a purity of vision, wasn't it? It wasn't about ulterior motives of getting rich and so forth.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Do those ex-members that you've met talk about Discussions and arguments? Were there debates about whether this was true? I mean, were they struggling with this idea at all?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Du hast die sexuelle Absentenzen erwähnt. Viele männliche Kult-Mitglieder vertreten Kastration. Das wird ziemlich extrem, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Sie wurden also mit einer Präsentation eingeladen, wie Sie es beschreiben. Wie lange und wie hart ist es, ein Mitglied zu werden?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
From self-help prophets to psychedelic communes to Marxist enclaves chasing utopia, the boundaries between belief and delusion have often been blurred. On this podcast series we've covered the ravaging fires of Waco, the sweltering silence of Jonestown, and the homicidal heat of the Manson family ranch.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Es klingt zu mir, als ob sie auf einem gewissen Zeitplan waren. War das mit neuen Mitgliedern kommuniziert? Du bist in diesem Bereich, es wird 20 Jahre dauern und später wird der Komet kommen und los geht's. War das versprochen oder nicht?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Today we are again in Southern California, where back in the late 1990s 39 lifeless bodies were discovered in a large house located in an otherwise ordinary suburb of San Diego. The fateful two-decade passage of these people is one that fused apocalyptic prophecy with sci-fi salvation, meaning a Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Hallo, Ben. Schön, dich zu haben. Danke, dass ich hier bin.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Es ist schwer, eine Gruppe zusammenzuhalten, ohne einen klaren Ziel und einen bestimmten Zeitplan. Ich meine, das ist eine schwierige Sache zu tun. Es spricht also zu der Charisma, ich glaube, oder zu einer mehr gefährlichen Worte, ich glaube, dieser Führung.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Sie mussten ziemlich kompensierend sein und diese täglichen Prozesse, die sie durchgingen, mussten eine Progression dazu haben, die die Leute gesenkt haben.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Und dann ist Bonnie Lou Nettles, einer der beiden Hauptleute, in 1985 gestorben. Das ist das, worum es geht. Sie mussten also von ihr warten, oder es muss etwas sehr Profiles über diesen Moment sein. Wie gehen sie mit nur einem der Leitenden weiter?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
We've mentioned the comet. Before we get into this, what is essentially this chain reaction from about 95 onward, are not the authorities on alert for this kind of thing when a group is together and they're talking about suicide and all that sort of thing?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Are there laws that prevent this from happening and were they worried about those or can one legally go around creating groups that recommend this sort of behavior?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Sure. Well, it's the First Amendment. You know, it's until you cross a line and there's got to be that line that prevents people from doing what they eventually do.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Es ist mir ein Vergnügen. Also, lasst uns generell beginnen.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
The critical moment starts with the discovery of Hale-Bopp Comet. They have been talking about this now for 20 years, that there's going to be a signal or some entity or something's going to happen. Hale-Bopp, I remember, is kind of a magical thing. I was a disappointed Kohutek kid. I remember in the 70s, there was a comet that came along. 1973, I think it was. And it was Kohutek.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
And it was such a magical name. And I was out there with my binoculars trying to find it in the skies above New Jersey. Never saw it. Big, big letdown. Along comes this other out of nowhere comet called Hale-Bopp. Das wurde 1995 entdeckt, als einer dieser celestialen Körperen auf uns fuhr. Und wir werden es im Himmel sehen, wie Halley's Comet, aber weit vor dem Schedule.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Es war wirklich erstaunlich. Und sicher genug, es war unglaublich. Wenn jemand es erinnert, oder es war live, es war, als ob man in einem Jetliner fliegt. Und es war dieses unglaubliche Ding im Himmel, ziemlich visibel. Und es war da für eine lange Zeit. Es war wirklich ein unglaublicher Moment in all unseren Leben.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Richtig. Ich meine, das ist ein Komet, der 4.000 Jahre lang in der Orbit dauert, wie es scheint. Es würde sehr nah am Sonnenschein überlaufen, im Frühjahr-Equinox. Es ist alles sehr bedeutend. Zusätzlich mit dem 13. März 1997, also der Hellbau ist schon da und wir haben ihn schon lange gesehen.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
There is this mass sighting, which is a very famous UFO sighting over Phoenix, Arizona, the lights and stuff. Still a mystery to many people how this is all going. But this is starting to pile up. And of course you have the Internet now and people are reporting a lot more UFO stuff all the time. So it's really lining up for these guys, isn't it?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Genau. So that time comes in March 1997, specifically Rancho Santa Fe, which is a town nearby San Diego. They are living in a large mansion there, really, which they call the monastery. About 40 people, 39 people, 21 women, 18 men, all between 26 and 72. Nehmen Sie mich durch diesen Ritual, den sie durchgehen. Es ist alles sehr ordentlich, ist es nicht?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
This is one of these cult stories that is very current, meaning I remember the local news coverage, you know, sitting in Los Angeles and seeing this unfold. It's one of those things that we've had these cults all throughout the 20th century, certainly and beyond. But this one feels very, you know, of our world. It's kind of creepy that way.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
There's no blood, no trauma, no force happening here.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Das war für sie bedeutend. Sie trugen Nikes. Sie hatten einen sportlichen Blick auf sie, haben sie nicht?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
The general headings of their theology come under evangelical Christianity, but also this science fiction thing that's very present in their thinking, isn't it?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
They had duffel bags and they carried coins in their pockets, right? I mean, this is the odd thing. They think that there's this earthly stuff that's actually going to go with them.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Wir beschreiben etwas, das fast friedlich und akzeptabel aussieht. Was ich außergewöhnlich finde, ist, dass in 39 Leuten, die sich dazu verabschiedet haben, nicht einer von ihnen in der letzten Minute, in der letzten Crew, in der letzten Wave, nicht zurückgekehrt ist. Sie sind alle durch das Ganze gegangen und wurden in einem ziemlich friedlichen Umfeld gefunden, als sie entdeckt wurden.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Es ist die logische Sache, um es zu tun. Ich bedanke mich nicht dafür, dass ich es nicht glaube, aber ich verstehe, warum es ihnen Sinn gemacht hat. Ja, es gab viel davon, oder zumindest viel in den Nachrichten. Und wir alle haben das mit einem Schluck Salz genommen oder einfach nur alte Roller-Eier.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Aber jetzt muss ich den Professor der Religion für einen Moment sprechen. Der Grund, warum ich mich als kirchliche Christin betrachte, ist, dass es viele Metapher gibt. Es gibt Raum für Interpretation in deinem eigenen Glaubenssystem. Du kannst es in irgendeiner Art und Weise anwenden, was du brauchst. Vielleicht nicht. Vielleicht nicht in den meisten Kirchen. Es ist die Spezifikation davon.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Wenn man sich die Webseite anschaut, ist es so spezifisch, so literarisch, dass es nicht so viel Raum gibt. Und das ist, wo es für dich seltsam und komisch klingt.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Ja, sprichend von aktuell, ich meine, auch wenn die Zuhörer unsere Gespräche hören, können sie die Website, die noch da ist, www.heavensgate.com, beobachten. Und ihr seht es, es ist noch da, geschrieben, als ob es ihre heutige Mitgliedschaft ist. Es ist unglaublich.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Es begt die Frage, ob das ein Kult ist, wenn du über Leute sprichst, die wirklich verstehen, worin sie sich befinden und es für ihre eigene Wille gemacht haben. Und sie werden nicht getötet, sie werden nicht verurteilt. Das scheint etwas ganz Volontäres zu sein und im Endeffekt ganz Friedensvolles. Und vielleicht distinguiert das es von anderen Gruppen, die mehr kultisch sind.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Und wenn man sich das mit Jonestown anseht, dann ist das sicher eine furchtbare Stadt. Das ist Kohersion, wie ich sehe.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Was wir wissen, als all diese neuen Religionen und alles, was in den 70er-Jahren aufgefallen ist, besonders in den 60er-Jahren in die 70er-Jahre, sind die gleichen Dinge, die heute passieren. Werden wir über Kulte und religiöse Bewegungen 20 Jahre nach jetzt sprechen, die in den Aughts und Teenies passieren?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Wir haben niemals aufgehört, Menschen zu suchen, um Antworten zu finden. Und das ist die Grundlage für all das, wirklich. Ben Zeller ist Professor von Religion am Lake Forest College in Illinois. Er ist der Autor eines Buches, das Sie über all das, was wir diskutiert haben, lesen können. Es heißt Heaven's Gate, Amerikas UFO-Religion. Vielen Dank, Ben. Es war toll, dich zu treffen.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Thanks for listening to this episode of American History Hit. As you've made it this far, why not like and follow us wherever you get your podcasts? American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Ja, genau. Also um klar zu sein, der christliche Gott, der heilige Vater, die Kräfte von Gut und Schmerz, die Heilung, die Kosmologie, eine Ordnung des Universums. All very standard ideas of religion. However, in this case, it will be taken to a different level.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Ja, das ist die Grundlage dieses Glaubenssystems, die Transition, die sie machen werden, die sehr furchtbar wird, von einem Niveau nach dem nächsten. Es ist wirklich in der Sache gebacken. Korrekt, ja. Das ist immer eine seltsame Sache bei Kulten. Sie beginnen mit akzeptierten religiösen Ideen, wie wir gesagt haben, aber dann nehmen sie das und drehen es.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Ich meine, ich weiß nicht, ob das in der Definition eines Kultes ist, aber das scheint das zu sein, was passiert. Und in diesem Sinne, die Tür ist offen, um Leute zu kommen und als sie es in einer konventionellen Kirche tun würden. Aber dann beginnt man, die Vision dieser Führung zu formen. Eine der Praktiken ist die Verschiebung von der Gesellschaft.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Um das zu werden, musst du deine weltlichen Belohnungen hinterlassen.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Right. And that will mean living in a communal setting, I suppose, right?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Bevor wir anfangen, muss ich Sie beurteilen, dass dieser Episode von American History Hit Diskussionen über Suizid enthalten. Es ist 1997. Ein riesiger, celestialer Ball von Rock, Stoff und Eis. Ein Komet. Seine Oberfläche, modelliert von Kratern, schlägt durch das leichte, schwarze Vakuum der Welt. Als es durch unser Sonnensystem fließt, schließt es sich in Richtung der Wärme des Sonnens.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
So this story ends in 97. I guess this began in the 70s, is that right?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Wir haben es schon einige Male erwähnt, das UFO-Stuff. Wir sollten das wahrscheinlich vorhin beantworten. Das ist der Zeitpunkt der kleinen Begegnungen der dritten Art. Es gibt viel Bewusstsein darüber, dass es sich wirklich in die 90er-Jahre entwickelt. Wie haben sie dieses bestimmte Thema ausgewählt? Ich meine, diese Idee dieser UFO-Besuch und ihrer Begegnung auf dem Planeten Erde.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Ja, genau. Es gibt viele parallelen Ideen hier, die wir nie vergessen können. Die individuelle Metamorphose durch Training ist das Worship-Praktikum, glaube ich, von diesem. Und das wird, wie Sie sagen, von zwei Individuen geführt, Marshall Applewhite und Bonnie Lou Nettles. Wie alt sind sie, wenn sie das tun?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Ja, richtig. Du hast es bereits erwähnt. Revelation ist Teil davon. Die Endtage. Der Apokalypse kommt. Sie glauben an all das. Deshalb sind sie bereit, sich von dem Ungewöhnlichen zu entfernen, richtig?
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Eis auf der Oberfläche des Komets beginnt zu vaporisieren. Gas und Stoff, die von ihrem Nucleus ausfließen, fliegen hinter sich, wie kosmischer Ausdruck. Erleuchtet vom Sonnensystem beginnt der Komet mit zwei Händen zu blühen. Einer ist breit und grün aus Stoff gemacht, der andere ein feiner Blau von ionisierten Gassen. Doch es kommt nie näher zur Erde als 122 Millionen Meilen.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
Das Faszinierende für mich ist, wie jemand, der in einem Zustand der Suche ist und vielleicht besorglich ist, Antworten auf ihre Leben zu finden, tatsächlich zu diesen extremen Glauben abhängt. Lassen wir uns ein paar historische Ideen anschauen. Founded in 1974. Diese beiden Leute machen das in der Oregon-Area, wo die Gäste um 1975 stattfanden.
American History Hit
Heaven's Gate: The UFO Cult
They articulate this idea of imminent transition, should you go through this transformational process with them. 20 people join them from Oregon, abandon their families and possessions. They finally settle in San Diego. Why there? How did they land in there 20 years later?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Yeah, it seems so unbelievable to somebody much younger than us. But I do recall being taken to the re-release of Gone with the Wind in 1967 or 68. And my northern parents took me to this screening because we were going to see the great movie. And it is a perfect expression of how absolutely endemic this myth became.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
So let's talk about the monuments. This really is a phase of time that happens later on when suddenly we begin to see these big gigantic monuments going up, especially in Richmond, but pretty much everywhere across the South, put up by the Daughters of Confederacy. How did that happen and what were those decisions?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
In 1865, under the leadership of Abraham Lincoln, forces of the United States of America won the Civil War. Richmond fell to Union forces on April 2nd. Robert E. Lee surrendered his army of Northern Virginia to General Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox on April 9th.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
1914, der Errechnung eines Monuments, das die Konfederanität anbietet, wo? Am Arlington Cemetery, der auch, wie viele vergessen, Robert E. Lee's ehemalige Plantation ist.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
That's right. It's a hundred years later almost. Well, it is a hundred years later that this takedown period begins. Richtig.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
We just did a story about Harry Truman's desegregation of the military on our President series. And it made me wonder, the name Hubert Humphrey came up and all of those guys in the 40s who were facing down all these civil rights problems from the North. How much were they aware at the time of the lost cause being this myth? Or has that come out later on?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
In June, the final Confederate stronghold fell to Union troops, and in August 1866, 16 months after Lee's surrender, President Andrew Johnson declared a formal end to the conflict. Now, the saying goes that history is written by the victors. But in the case of the Civil War in the South, this isn't entirely true. For this episode in our Confederacy series, I am joined by Ty Siduley.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
But I mention it because of what you say, because of the willingness to face down the fact, the cynical fact that the Dixiecrats, the Southern Democrats... such a fundamental part of the Democratic Party, the power base of the party, that to challenge the lost cause myth challenged them.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
And sure enough, eventually, with other political moves of desegregation and so forth, Strom Thurmond and those Dissecrats walk on the Democratic Party. That shift, I always wondered how much was that motivated by the realization and the clarity of this whole thing, this whole mythology being part of American culture.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Ein großer Symbol all dessen, nicht nur der Monumente, sondern auch die Flagge, die Konfederatflagge, geht bis heute noch nie weg. Sie ist immer noch ein großer Teil und eine große Kontroverse in Amerika. Einer dieser Symbole, die uns so oft zu ihrer echten Bedeutung erneuert. Es ist einfach eine Sache, die man auf Rennwagen sieht und so weiter. Aber es geht über mehrere Iterationen.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Es gibt eine erste, zweite und dritte Iteration. Walk me through the creation of this flag and what it means to this lost cause.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
It has never been officially adopted by anybody.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
This has never been a government-sanctioned flag.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Together we will discuss the Lost Cause myth. What is it? How is it still significant today? And how Ty himself stopped believing in it. Hello Ty, how are you doing? Great, Don. Thanks for having me. It is a big subject, the Lost Cause myth. And I suggest many, many Americans do not have a clue how deeply affecting it is in our culture, even today. Are we in agreement on that? Violent agreement.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
The myth spreads a lot because of western expansion, doesn't it? I mean, many of those southerners, especially the young ones, headed out west. And this carries forth this storytelling into these new lands.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Und es macht auch Sinn, weil du, als du diese neuen Länder und diese neuen Regierungen kreierst, diese, weißt du, Städte setzst und all diese Art von Führung, kannst du diese Ideen sehr früh in den Prozess einbauen, anstatt sozusagen aufgestellte, weißt du, Systeme und Strukturen nach Osten zu nehmen. Also im Westen sind diese jungen, sortierenden Lande, wo junge Leute kommen können.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Ich meine, einige Millionen Menschen sind nach Süden und sind nach Westen gefahren. So you begin to create these towns and counties and states eventually that have these feelings and these myths baked into them.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
You wonder what he would have thought of that at the end of his life. Although Grant was all about reconciliation, I suppose. And that is the theme that's really important to discuss. I mean, that plays a big role in this, the general desire and genuine desire of Northerners to reconcile with the South and get on with this. There's a lot of room for forgiveness and a lot of sacrifice of the truth.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
How effective has the change been at West Point in terms of this? Let's look at that as a case study of what's really happening across the nation.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Wie interessant. Für mich, ich bin von einem gewissen Alter, ich erinnere mich an den fünften Grad. The seed was planted in the early 70s in my head about states' rights and the war between the states versus any other kind of view of this. Maybe it was where I was raised. I have no idea how it happened, but definitely got planted in me. And for years and years, I kind of went on the fence.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
You were vice chair of that government naming commission. I was. Within the Department of Defense.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
I don't know what kind of war this really was. Only later on has this become straightened out. We're really addressing that kind of in-betweenness about what the Civil War was by definition. Let's start with Robert E. Lee, because he's such an obvious figure to do that with. And really, a lot of Lost Cause myth hangs its hat on this figure, doesn't it?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
It has everything to do with Virginia, you know, seizing back the storyline because they were the ones with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and they saw themselves as the founding state. Now they want this back again, having stepped way far afield from that role. He is an idealization of this southern gentleman, right?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
I mean, here's a general who is just every picture you ever see of a guy. Handsome, elegant. Well dressed. You know, everything about him was created as a sort of depiction of this idealized southern gentleman.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Monument Avenue, Richmond, Virginia, 2020. Eine acht Fuß bronze Statue von Jefferson Davis steht auf einem granaten Block. Seine rechte Hand ist ausgestreckt, als ob sie die gloriausen Kräfte seines Vergangenen beherrscht. Hinter ihm steigen 13 Kolumnen, ein Tribut zu den 11 Staaten, die von der Union ausgelaufen sind, und den zwei anderen, die die Kräfte an die Kraft gesendet haben.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
You were working at West Point for decades. Is this the common feeling about Lee there?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Okay, so the myth of the lost cause really begins very soon after the end of the Civil War, 1866. The name of a guy named Edward A. Pollard is important in this. Newspaper director from Richmond, Virginia. We can really stake ourselves to this guy as the beginning of a real force of propaganda. I mean, this was a created myth very deliberately, right?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
It doesn't sort of bubble up from a sentimentality or a nostalgia. All of these things become later the characterizations of this. This is a decision among leaders in the South to say, we need to take control of this storytelling. And that becomes a 20-year process that then becomes, you know, lives with us even today.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Ja, eine Redefinition davon, warum wir diesen Krieg kämpfen. So dass es den Fokus davon nimmt, was die Leute empfindlich finden oder haben empfindlich gefunden, und auf etwas geht, was viel palatierter ist. Die Phrase, der Krieg zwischen den Staaten, der Krieg der Norden-Aggression.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
All diese Dinge, die in unserer historischen Bewusstsein rütteln, kommen von dieser Redefinition, von diesem Versuch. Ty, lass uns über Edward Pollard sprechen, diesen Journalisten. Was hat er geschrieben und wie wurde er distribuiert?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Danach, weiter auf dem Monument, werden Stonewall Jackson und Robert E. Lee ihre bronzen Gäse über eine Stadt, die sich um sie herum verändert hat, ausgestattet. In einem Jahr werden all diese Konfederat-Statuen fallen. Graffitiert, zerstört, völlig zerstört. Belegiert an Museums oder andere unheimliche Fälle. Aber warum waren sie da in erster Linie?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
I do want to know though from this conversation and let's just get to it right away. What is the initial cause? I mean, is there a conference? Do they all sit around somewhere and bubble this up in the back room? How does this even get born?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Zwei sehr generelle Präzepte davon sind die Glorifizierung der Konfederaten, dass sie besser als sie turned out to be, mehr strategisch geführt waren. Es war nur, dass die Ressourcen und Supplies der norderländischen Staaten überwältigend waren, aber dass die Southerner tatsächlich besser gegen diese Krieg kämpften.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Die andere Seite ist natürlich die Redefinition der Slaverie, eine nostalgische Repräsentation dessen, worum es all das ging. Lass uns darüber sprechen. Wie haben sie diesen Mythos erschaffen?
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Was genau wollten diese Monumente zu memorialisieren? Why honor any figure who has plotted to overthrow a nation beloved by its people, and then waged a bloody war to do so? How were these men immortalized, while their unworthy cause crumbled to dust? Hello and welcome to American History. I'm Don Wildman.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Es ist essentiell, dass dieses paternalistische Aussehen von Slavery in dieses Ding gebacken wird. Es ist wirklich das, was die Table für all das, was Jim Crow und die Segregation auf der Straße wird. Diese fortschrittliche weiße Supremität, sogar bis heute, argumentierbar. Das beginnt wirklich mit dieser Redefinition von Slavery und innerhalb des Verlusts-Kauses-Myth.
American History Hit
Confederacy: Myth of the Lost Cause
Es ist unglaublich, wie viel Vorsicht es wirklich scheint zu haben. Ich glaube nicht, dass es wirklich war, aber es scheint es zu haben, weil es so einen langwierigen Effekt hatte.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Just a recap right now. I want to say it is a fascinating thing that we really discussed in the previous episode that's worth reminding people of right now. What has happened was the creation of a commercial entity of a whole company that's down here creating a profit-making organization. die nur auf Geld basiert, als gegen eine religiöse Organisation, die den Show leitet.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Das hat funktioniert, es ist ein sehr schrecklicher Weg, es ist immer noch so, aber es passiert. Und als Ergebnis wurde es dem Kronen attraktiv, um diese jetzt offizielle englische Kolonie zu erschaffen, die nicht nach Norden für ein paar mehr Jahre passieren wird. Aber das ist der Prozess, der unterwegs ist. Du hast etwas erwähnt, ich weiß nicht, vor zehn Minuten, das faszinierend war.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
That there was a point where one of those charters actually drew that Virginia all the way out to the Pacific Ocean. That's the beginning of Manifest Destiny, isn't it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Ich meine, philosophisch, ökonomisch sicherlich. Du hast den ganzen Bedrock des amerikanischen Experimentes, der im Süden ausgesprochen wurde, indem man Geld macht, indem man diese eventuellen Plantationen kreiert, diese agrarischen Fiefdoms, die diese ganze Subkultur kreieren, oder zumindest die Kultur, wie man viel Geld machen kann, um seine Arbeitskosten niedrig zu halten.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Du weißt, du bringst geschlossene Menschen ein. Up north, meanwhile, you have the beacon on the hill. You know, you have the whole Puritan dream. And that's the difference. That's the dichotomy that's very exciting for me personally at this point in my life to understand. How do you end up with these two Americans? That's kind of the basics of it, isn't it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Ja. 1644, da gibt es, wie du es erwähnt hast, einen großen Angriff von Opechenkinau. 300 plus werden getötet. Das führt zu mehr und mehr Unruhe, das mit dem sogenannten Bacon's Rebellion endet. 1676, wir sind jetzt ziemlich weit runter. Erklär uns, was Bacon's Rebellion ist und wie das zu dem Abfall kommt, oder zumindest zu dem Ende, was wir als Jamestown kennen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Welcome back, I'm Don Wildman. This is American History Hit. Did Jamestown fail? It was the first permanent English settlement in what would become the United States. Yet it was eventually abandoned. Over the past three weeks, we've uncovered the hard history of the place, ravaged by disease, war, famine. But Jamestown did endure for a time to become Virginia's capital.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Well, it's going to lead to a lot of class tension, isn't it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Yeah. The French Revolution. You name it. Wealth disparity. It's amazing how often this has happened in the history of man. And this is what causes the rebellion in 1676. How long does it last? A year. Mm-hmm.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
For 92 years, until 1699, there it was, when the seat of power was finally moved to Williamsburg. So today, let's tell the last chapter and unravel the mystery of what happened to Jamestown. To find out, I am joined by Willie Balderson, Director of Living History and Historic Trades at Jamestown Rediscovery Foundation, down there at Jamestown itself. Nice to have you back again.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
But this begins an inexorable momentum towards moving this entire place to the north, am I right? It eventually becomes a new Jamestown and then Williamsburg, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
That's ostensibly what was happening, but I'm sure there were all kinds of other more organic reasons, so to speak. I mean, such a spread of settlement really had gone to the north and west. Is that right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
And it was only a matter of time before in order to manage those things and in order for those burgesses not to have to travel so far, you end up with a new capital.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Wow. It boggles the mind. I mean, it really does, that such a place could be founded against all the odds. Tremendous torture and pain involved in doing this. And then to actually have survived despite itself. You know, by hook or crook, or at least the desire to make a pound, you know, to turn a profit, was really that much of a driving force.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
I can't help but think that tobacco had everything to do with it. You know, it was such a celebrated crop, created a whole industry back in Europe. Und das sind die verschiedenen Elemente, die daraus entstehen, nicht zu erwähnen die Entschädigung. Es sind einfach all diese verschiedenen Dinge, die Teil des Steuers werden, das, weißt du, genügend Leute genügt, um dieses Ding zu erreichen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Thanks. For anyone who hasn't heard the three prior episodes of this series, we've been going through the founding and development and finally settling down of Jamestown Colony so that it eventually becomes a success story. Willie, I want to make this clear because we're going to talk about a charter being revoked at the end here.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Ein Teil davon ist, dass man in so vielen der frühen Tage keinen Weg raus hatte. Das kreiert eine andere Art von Genesung. Es ist mehr wie ein Überlebensinstinkt, ich glaube, als später. Es ist unglaublich. Aber ich möchte nur sagen, es ist eine sehr spannende Serie für mich gewesen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Because of course, like any little kid in the East Coast, I went to Jamestown when I was 10 years old and walked around the Palisades. You know, imagine this whole thing and it was all very interesting. But I had no clue until very recently and driven home by this conversation, how fundamental Jamestown is to creating the American South and beyond that forever.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
I mean, George Washington is really a product essentially of Jamestown. That whole idea of his view of America, you know. How many canals he wanted to dig across the country. You know, the whole commercial enterprise that this continent was going to become in those founding fathers' minds.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Das wird den Kanawa-Kanal verbinden, um den Ostkosten zu verbinden. Willie Valstern is the Director of Living History and Historical Trades at Jamestown Rediscovery Foundation, the organization that oversees operations at historic Jamestown, Jamestown Island especially. I honestly, Willie, cannot wait to go back to Jamestown, now that I know as much as I do from these four episodes.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Parents, school your children. This is good stuff. Thank you so much, Willie. Nice to meet you.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
So we have not really been clear about the fact that there were three other charters before this. When we talk about charter, what are we talking about?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Sure. And there was one in 1606, the first charter. A second comes in 1609, just a few years later. The third charter, 1612. And we're going to be talking in this episode about 1624, when that last charter is revoked. Each one of these is a kind of a readjustment for the Virginia company back in England.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
But how this whole thing is running, the size of it and so forth, is creating problems and challenges and how it's governed and so forth. But we really find, I mean, this is the real headline of the series, the basis of the governance of Virginia is really created here in Jamestown, correct?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Am Februarmorgen in Ost-Virginien, die Temperatur um 55 Grad Fahrenheit, rippeln die Wälder um den Stuhl des James-Towns unter einem überflüssigen Himmel. Die Strömungen des James-Rivers sind fast bei hohem Tiefen, die sich über die Fläche bewegen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
And that was the Great Charter, 1618. Yes. What was life like in the colony in that final era of time? Had the mission been accomplished as far as it being a profitable commercial enterprise, in this case probably tobacco mainly, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Nach einer kurzen Brücke parken wir uns am Besucherzentrum und gehen in Richtung des historischen Jamestowns, folgend durch eine Gravelstraße, die zu den rekonstruierten Palästinensien führt. Die dünnen Fenster sind vorsichtig befestigt, um das originelle Design des Fortes zu vergleichen. Auf der linken Seite steht die Memorial Church, die 1907 errichtet wurde, um den 300.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Sure. What's interesting to me is that after these 20 years, there's still these threats. I mean, the threat has not been mitigated. You would have thought, I would imagine, through all that governance and all those times, that measures would have been taken, negotiations would have happened, but apparently not.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
And this is going to mark the beginning of a whole longer period of conflict that goes into the 1630s. You know, this is a decade and more of lots of problems that eventually lands with even a rebellion within itself, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Geburtstag von Jamestown zu markieren. Fast the red brick building, we approach the church tower. Separate, yet nearby, it is a lone sentinel from the past. The last remaining above ground structure from the colonial days. Rising about 40 feet, the tower's wide square base supports a tall, narrow doorway, stretching more than halfway up the building's height.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
It just seems very coincidental with the fact that the New Netherland begins in 1624, the same year. Did that have anything to do with it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Huh. And there have been wars being fought over this in the previous years, Dutch and the English, and all kinds of stuff is happening back in Europe, of course. This is merely the tip of the iceberg, I understand.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Yeah. So this stake in the ground in the new world is driven deeper when that charter is revoked and it becomes an official crown colony.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Ja, und New Sweden ist in Süd-New Jersey. Ich meine, es gibt alle Art von Drucken, die passieren und die Engländer erinnern, dass wir besser dieses Land holen sollten. Ich möchte nur bemerken, ich meine, die Geografie davon ist, dass du die Massachusetts Bay Colony da oben hast, seit die Pilger kamen, ein paar Jahre früher, Anfang in der Cape Cod-Area. Und dann hast du Jamestown hier unten.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Built around 1680, 73 years after the English settlers first arrived. This is believed to be the fourth church constructed here. Every year here at historic Jamestown, archaeologists unearth more buried evidence of the fort and its community. But why does this tower remain, while everything else has seemingly vanished? What was it exactly that finally led to Jamestown's demise? Jamestown
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Das ist wie ein Weiß, zwischen ihnen ist der Deutsche. Und es ist nur eine Frage von Zeit, 1664, wenn das alles voll wird. Und das ist die Dynamik im Spiel.
American History Hit
Jamestown: Decline & Fall?
Ja. I'll be back with more American History after this short break.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Haddonfield, New Jersey, is about 10 miles east of Philadelphia. And on this day in October 1858, lawyer, philanthropist and social reformer William Parker Folk is a filthy mess. Covered in marl, a clay-like substance, as he finishes up a day of meticulous excavation. Folk is searching for dinosaur bones.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
I don't get the connection between finding black soil and then justifying slavery. That seems like a leap.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Back in the 19th century, against a backdrop of so much industrial, economic, and social transformation, a tectonic shift happened to American consciousness. It had to do with time, specifically the time the North American continent had existed. Prior to the 1800s, there was widespread acceptance of the biblical version of cosmic origin.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Well, that's the modern world, isn't it? I'll be right back after this short break. Meantime, if you'd like us to cover anything specifically, if you have any ideas of subject matter we should be looking at, send us an email at ahh at historyhit.com. We'd love to hear from you.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
It all happens in the context of the Second Great Awakening, which was all throughout the 19th century, which was so much about reaching back to the Bible for strength in the face of this modern emerging world. That group must have been very threatened by this idea for obvious reasons. But how do they absorb it and, I imagine, use it to their own good?
American History Hit
How Old is America?
I'm taken by your idea that there's two tracks for the average American citizen. You can go to church, but then you can also make money. That's the religion, other religion of the United States back then, the emerging mercantile era, where making money is part of a spiritual existence, where you can better yourself and the growth is tangible. That's always been the balancer in American society.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
The planet was 6,000 years old, and the Great Flood came about 1,500 years later. Noah built the ark, saved the animals and mankind from death by drowning. But that theory would be fundamentally challenged as humans began to closely consider the fossilized bones and other evidence of prehistoric creatures, all of it suggesting the Earth was much older than the Bible would have us believe.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
I can't miss the chance to mention someone who doesn't get enough notice. Louis Agassiz, the Harvard naturalist and geologist of that time who had so much to do with everything, didn't he?
American History Hit
How Old is America?
A new book released this year grapples with this entire phenomenon and its profound implications, entitled How the New World Became Old. The Deep Time Revolution in America, authored by historian Carolyn Winterer, the William Robertson Co-Professor of History and American Studies at Stanford University, where she also chairs the department. It is an honor to meet you, Professor.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Carolyn, how does deep time, all of which is in your book, the themes of deep time intersect with the idea of American exceptionalism, which was such a big part of the 19th century?
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Yeah. All this and more you can find between the covers of this important new book, How the New World Became Old, The Deep Time Revolution in America. This was a really exciting conversation for me. I mean, it's rare that you land on something that is a really new academic idea that doesn't get enough articulation. And this is just that.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Carolyn Winter, who has been our guest today, William Robertson, co-professor of history and American studies at Stanford University. It is an honor to talk to you, Carolyn. Nice to meet you.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Hello, folks. Thanks for listening to American History Hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content like mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great, but you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support. Bye for now.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
May I call you Carolyn? Absolutely. And it's a pleasure to be here as well. The Deep Time Revolution. Let's first consider the book's title. What is the concept of deep time?
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Of course, they were finding dinosaur bones way back when, including fossils. But no one had really brought this together until the scientific age comes along.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Twenty years ago, it seems, farm laborers working in this same pit happened upon unusual skeletal remains, large bones they couldn't identify. They reported the find, but without much consequence. Decades later, folk wonders if he can find more. Paleontology is still a new science in America, and there have been important findings, imprints of feet, individual teeth and bones.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
As if human beings are not coping with enough in the 19th century. I mean, the whole world is changing under their feet with industry and technology. Suddenly, the one accepted truth, you know, that Noah saved us is gone or at least disappearing. How was this absorbed? How did it enter into the lexicon of American thinking? What went on then?
American History Hit
How Old is America?
And we can't underestimate the intelligence of these generations. I mean, they were kind of, you know, connecting the dots. It was the fact that so much of common belief was in their face that it was hard to challenge it. But there must have been a lot of writing, a lot of thinking being done on this fact.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
But these have been mostly scattered and incomplete. This pit, where Folk now digs, will eventually produce the first complete set of dino bones in North America, a skeleton that will be named Hadrosaurus fulci, after the man himself. Nose to tail, it will measure more than 20 feet. The animal would have weighed an estimated 2.5 tons.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
It all really intersects with the rise of the triumphalism in the United States, the rise of manifest destiny and all that sort of thing. The idea that the North American continent had so much of evidence of this deep time in it, from the vast abundance of coal to the amount of dinosaur bones they eventually find out west especially, but they were all already up and down the East Coast as well.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
This all contributes to this real feeling of like, we're special because we have a continent that's actually older than everyone else. And that was real, right?
American History Hit
How Old is America?
It's a discovery that will alter the course of paleontology, not to mention how museums are designed and constructed to display the beasts. But it will also change Americans' understanding of the age of their continent, and by association, how they feel about themselves. Hi there, I'm Don Wildman. Thanks for clicking through to another episode of American History Hit. Glad you're here.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
And the celebration of the landscape, as you're saying, these national parks. But it goes back to even the Hudson River School painting where they're attaching these natural, the majesty of the land to a sort of theology of this place.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
Yeah. And it plays, of course, into the whole racial argument of American society. If this place is so old, then it predates everything. And so we belong here as much as anyone who we found here or who we brought here. You know, it's this whole idea of white America attaching itself to this ideal.
American History Hit
How Old is America?
But it also has to do with the South. As you say, there's so much good soil down there. This Cretaceous soil, which is a black soil, should be worked by black people. So God had made the soil of the southern states that way for the ease of using enslaved labor.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Oh mein Gott, Sie waren in der Sache, wie sie sagen. Wie fühlten Sie sich, wenn Sie keine Waffe in diesen Situationen hatten?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Hallo alle, willkommen zurück zu American History Hit, ich bin Don Wildman. A conscientious objector is loosely defined as, quote, an individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform a military service on the grounds of freedom of conscience or religion, unquote.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Well, it's a natural camaraderie among soldiers, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
So you didn't feel judged upon by faith or race or anything like that? No.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Were you able to adjust that attitude that you had?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Ja, na gut, zu ihrer Kredit, das sind die Basis der militärischen Trainings, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
How right did they get it with those movies, with Platoon and Vietnam movies? I mean, what was combat like?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
The first conscientious objector or CO on record was a Roman named Maximilian, who in the year 295 told his consul that due to his religious beliefs, he was unwilling to kill. Und dafür würde er den Todspenal beurteilen. Seit diesen Tagen hat die Verletzung der Wahrnehmung geändert und in die meisten Gesellschaften geübt.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Es gibt viele Variationen auf die Idee, insbesondere diejenigen, die nicht zu töten, sondern zu servieren wollen. Unser Gast heute war ein CO, der sehr viel in dieser Tradition war, der als Feldmediz in den Wäldern von Vietnam arbeitete. Und er hat uns hier heute, 57 Jahre nach dem Anruf, in 1968, grüßt. Sidney Morrison, schön, dich wieder zu treffen.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Let's talk about a few incidences that you went through. You mentioned a near-death experience in December of 1969, I have in my notes here. Explain what happens to this. This is this critical moment that you referred to earlier, where your life was saved.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
A man screaming next to you who's lost his legs.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Die Hörer werden sich erinnern, dass Mr. Morrison der Autor eines berühmten Buches, Frederick Douglass, ein Novel ist. Und wir haben zwei Podcasts über Frederick Douglass mit ihm gedreht. Aber Sidney hat auch eine Geschichte von seinem eigenen, die wir in anderen Episoden in Vietnam gemacht haben. Also Sidney, danke für deine Hilfe, vor allem.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
It's a Bronze Star with a V. Listeners should know, I have you on video on a Zoom and I can see you holding up that Bronze Star in your hand right there. Wow. I've always wondered, Sidney, do those medals matter in the long run of life?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Und danke, dass du einen dritten American History Hit machst.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
This was the biggest loss for this company.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
I can only imagine, because I did not serve, that the memories of combat, particularly from the perspective of a field medic, never fade. Is this still present in your mind every day?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Did you ever run into this person in life later on?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Und er ist gestorben. So viele solcher Geschichten. Ich möchte Sie etwas fragen, was Sie vor einiger Zeit erwähnt haben. Wie fühlt es sich an, nicht Angst vor Tod zu haben? Denn das scheint mir eine zentrale Erfahrung gegen Krieg zu sein, die jemand wie ich nicht bemerken kann.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Right. And in this case you have service that you're doing.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
But that replaces the fear factor. That replaces the animal response of bolt and run kind of thing.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
So that kind of replaces that fear. That sense of duty to your fellow soldier is the replacement of that.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
I want to finish with a story about Lieutenant Foreman. You sought out, you mentioned, was it the Vietnam Memorial that you're talking about?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Sidney, wenn du hörst, dass du eine gute Lebensweise gelebt hast, dass du ein Lehrer bist, dass du ein Schriftler bist, dass du ein Schriftler bist. Wenn du jetzt zurückblickst und so viel Kritik von Vietnam hörst, wir haben diese Programme über den Krieg gemacht.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Wie fühlt es dich, als jemand, der dort geholfen hat, das historische Hintergrund für diesen wirklich anstrengenden Zeitpunkt für dieses Land?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Wow. We'll get to that episode in a moment. Let's start at the beginning, how this happened. Many people don't understand the big difference with Vietnam was that there was a draft. Generations of Americans have grown up without a draft. It's now a volunteer army because of what you went through and because of the great controversy of that.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
So tell us about how that call happened, when your number came up, 1968.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
The takeaway from so many wars, you know, in my reflections, talking about them so much in this podcast series especially, is that it glorifies the cause. But in the process, it oversimplifies those causes as well. And unfortunately, even in your case, the painful experiences that come out of it and are lived with over time.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Fortunately, in our time, we have more information about this and we understand the more subtle things. Ja. Und so sind diese Bilder von dem, was in Gaza passiert ist, die Kinder. Und das war so hart.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Oh mein Gott, wir können weitergehen, Cindy. Ich habe so viele Fragen und du warst direkt in der Mitte davon. Das ist unglaublich. Vielen Dank für deine Hilfe, natürlich, aber auch für die Einladung uns zu dieser unglaublich schwierigen Erfahrung, die du all dein Leben gelebt hast.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
But I hasten to say, a very successful life lived as well. And do you think, I have to ask you, do you think you would have been an educator in your life otherwise? Was that what you came home to do?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
For a last chance, we've talked to you more times than most guests, but I welcome the chance to plug your book one more time. Frederick Douglass, a novel written by this fine man, Sidney Morrison. Thank you so much, Sidney. We'll talk to you again in the future.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Hello folks, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content like mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Bye for now.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Wie hast du das gemacht? War das auf einem Format?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
So, just to get the chronology, you graduate from UCLA. How old are you at that point?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
21 years old. You get your call in August and that's when you declare your CO status.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Und das ist, ich meine, was für ein Jahr. Oh mein Gott. Zwei Monate zuvor wurde Martin Luther King geschossen. Ich meine, unglaublich.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
War es ein negativer oder ein positiver Gefühl, den ihr von euren Kollegen im Militär hatte?
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
And this is deep in the middle of battle.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
25th Infantry Platoon, Platoon Medic is what your title was.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Sure. It's a very popular tourist attraction these days.
American History Hit
Vietnam: Conscientious Objection in a Warzone
Und es war noch schlimmer. Es war bemerkenswert. Es war unglaublich. Ich habe ein Fernsehshow gemacht, wo ich in diesen Tunneln rauchte. Sie waren sehr tief. Es war nur ein Bunker-System, das genau das war, was du sagst.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Yeah, I want to go back to the Senate for a moment. We sort of blew past that. And I want to know, you mentioned aristocracy as being the landowning nobles who were meant to sort of balance out the government and certainly any kind of monarchical power. Influence, by being this strong body that would hold a lot of power. When does it change? I guess it's with the vote, right?
American History Hit
Romans in America
When the Senate becomes popularly voted for, that all really changes.
American History Hit
Romans in America
It's almost like a religion of sorts. I mean, it's almost a spiritual quality to it that this new nation, any nation needs as a background. Whereas in Europe you had so much Catholicism in the old days and all of that spiritualism gave structure. This is a way of sort of utilizing ideas and a sort of spirit, as I say, but it's not religion because we don't do that.
American History Hit
Romans in America
And to get that to the people, which I've said before in this conversation, such an important part of it, is through education. I mean, they really lean hard on classical education. You've already mentioned it, but even I took Latin in the 80s. And I got an A, I might add. Two courses, I can say this. Cum bene jactati pusurant arla vigones. That's the only thing I remember.
American History Hit
Romans in America
It says, with the good plow, I will make peas happen or something like that.
American History Hit
Romans in America
It was all about agrarian stuff. But this classical element of education was everywhere. How was that meant to affect the population?
American History Hit
Romans in America
Even on the residential side, I mean, you have antiquity is all throughout the homes. It's the wallpaper of the world, is the phrase that's used. Artifacts in the home. I'm sorry, I'm making this all about myself. But my little 1600 square foot house, I even looked it up on Zillow, where I grew up in New Jersey. Ja, klar.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Hey there, nice to have you with us. I'm Don Wildman and this is American History Hit. The Roman Empire lasted for about 500 years, from 27 BC to 476 AD. It reached from northern Africa, around the Mediterranean, including the Balkan, Italian and Iberian peninsulas, all the way to the British Isles.
American History Hit
Romans in America
That's fascinating. And that will go hand in hand with the populist movement of that time and the pressure that eventually leads to the 12th Amendment, right? The vote for the Senate. That's exactly right. That comes out of that Greek desire for democracy. Interesting.
American History Hit
Romans in America
One institution that finds its roots in Rome also is enslavement, is slavery. And often people have used that to justify what happened in America. Two different kinds of systems entirely.
American History Hit
Romans in America
It was not the largest empire in human history, but for western civilization it was certainly the most influential. What happened in Rome, lessons of civic governance among others, did not stay in Rome. It spread far and wide across time, eventually setting roots in the fertile soil of a brand new nation called the United States of America. This Roman diaspora of civic and cultural ideas
American History Hit
Romans in America
I'll be back with more American history after this short break. But the American system or the southern system of slavery was very different from that which Rome practiced in terms of, you know, like the lifelong slavery, generational slavery, the commercial aspect of it. It was a much crueler system than what I understand to be practiced in Rome.
American History Hit
Romans in America
The inevitable discussion that happens here is the building of the empire, if we're going to become an empire, first of all, but also that Rome builds one, but then it collapses. And everyone in this time in America is versed on the fact that this whole rise and fall is part of this story.
American History Hit
Romans in America
How much did they fear the same here and did they see that as inevitably happening on the North American continent?
American History Hit
Romans in America
It's wonderful to be here. Thank you. So, we're about to discuss how high-minded Roman ideals became essential to the founding of the US. But let's begin with something very familiar to everyone. The classically inspired architecture, so prevalent across America, certainly in the nation's capital.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Yeah, and you wonder, I mean, which side of the political spectrum more embraces these classical ideas today? I suppose it's the right. I'm not sure, though.
American History Hit
Romans in America
So to summarize, what lessons can we learn from the collapse of the Roman Empire to defend ourselves from the same here?
American History Hit
Romans in America
But I'm hearing from you today that its usefulness played itself out. Is it an obsolete idea that we are related to Rome or are we still in love with the idea? I mean, there's a lot of McMansions with those pillars. I can see it all over the place.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Caroline Winterer ist die William Robertson Co-Professor of History and American Studies at Stanford University. Sie spezialisiert sich in der amerikanischen Geschichte vor den 1900ern, besonders in der Geschichte von Ideen und der Geschichte der Wissenschaft. Sie ist auch Vorsitzende dieser Departement. Wir waren glücklich, sie zu haben.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Ich empfehle ihr neues Buch, entitled How the New World Became Old, The Deep Time Revolution in America. Caroline, wo else können wir deine Arbeit finden und deine Lehren folgen?
American History Hit
Romans in America
Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
Romans in America
There is no more obvious demonstration of how committed our founders and their ancestors were to the Greeks and Romans. So many columns and porticos and pediments. How did this thing happen in America? Were we all intended to feel like Romans?
American History Hit
Romans in America
It comes all at the same time as the popularity of the Grand Tour in Europe had sort of risen up and we were suddenly discovering these ancient things like the pyramids and so forth. Thomas Jefferson, of course, has everything to do with this, bringing this neoclassical principle over here. Tell us how he was met with when he brought these ideas to the fore.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Right. I mean, we were taking this from the Renaissance, of course, I mean, Palladio and all that. And the British, of course, practiced this idea in London, you know, putting up these buildings. It was happening all over Europe. But the idea of so much of it and such a commitment to it was kind of outflanking the British at their game, wasn't it?
American History Hit
Romans in America
All of it, of course, was symbolic, still is. The idea that this public architecture was this expression of the ideals of the classical ancients. Most of all, the notion of a balance of power, checks and balances. You know, you look at a building, it is balanced, it is very solid, it has a big foundation, obviously a symbol.
American History Hit
Romans in America
This is the beginning of all of that being utilized in the creation of our government, isn't it?
American History Hit
Romans in America
In der Städte von North Carolina fliegt Licht durch die Fenster des Central Dome, illuminierend eine Marble-Figur, die mit ruhiger Gerechtigkeit auf einer fast sechs Fuß langen Plinth fliegt. Die Figur, die in romanschemischer Militär-Arme geblasen ist, zeigt tonierte Beine, Arme und eine ausgeschlossene Navel, die in einer schweren Schuhe auf dem linken Arm kaskiert ist.
American History Hit
Romans in America
Woher kommt das her? Das ist mir faszinierend. Und wie es zu den gemeinsamen Menschen kommuniziert wird. Ich meine, das ist der Grund, warum ich diese Konversation mit der Architektur starten wollte. Ich denke, es war wirklich die Macht, dass man etwas so offensichtlich in der Mitte der Stadt befindet, das sagt, wir gehen zurück zu diesem Ort, Leute, wir nehmen es zurück nach Rom.
American History Hit
Romans in America
But it was also in the popular entertainment, you know, Julius Caesar had been performed in 1599. So all these Shakespearean plays and so forth were talking about this stuff. But how was it really communicated? I mean, was this actually written up in editorials in the broadsides or...
American History Hit
Romans in America
I'm so glad we're having this conversation because I think about this all the time. I mean, it's for all the reasons we discussed, you know, you see it in the buildings and so forth. But it really is this sort of settled feeling like I get it. I understand where this nation kind of builds itself from. The foundation is really solid.
American History Hit
Romans in America
And as much as we can joke about it and it's worthy of joking, it really does serve the purpose of giving this country this really solid platform to build on to. I'll be back with more American History after this short break.
American History Hit
Romans in America
In his right hand he holds a marble pen, poised above a tablet in his left. Inscribed upon the tablet are the words, George Washington, to the people of the United States, 1796, friends and citizens. Es ist der erste Präsident der USA, immortalisiert in Stein, als er seine 1796-Farewell-Adresse schreibt. Doch sein Kleid, ein Stil, das zwei Jahrhunderte alt war, war nicht seiner Wahl.
American History Hit
Romans in America
There is a famous classical figure named Cincinnatus, who figures prominently in certainly the military aspect of this too. Can you talk a bit about his importance?
American History Hit
Romans in America
Yeah, exactly. Which also plays into the ideal that used to be the case in the States that we didn't have really a standing army, a national army. It was more of state militias, state and local militias that were then gathered, even up into the Civil War. It's not really until the 20th century that that idea even becomes a part of it, because it was such a threat. It was such an idea of tyranny.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
He is taking, uh, rock and roll into country rock and making this new Western sound. He's, he's one of those guys that sort of took the baton from Phil Spector. It's huge. Exactly. He's a big time guy. So is the Beach Boys. Let's not forget, this is a major group. They are making a lot of money. And the people around them are serious businessmen along come this, these nutty people.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
But that's what I've said before. This is the weird thing about LA. It's this mixed bag of, of serious business, but also cultural weirdness. And in those days it was all being embraced because that was, you know, ironically, these guys were like tapping in. They knew that the money was to be made with this crowd. Don, you're so right.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Yes. This was the line that got crossed with the Manson.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
We left two little bio notes out of Terry Meltzer. He's the son of Doris Day. I mean, Doris Day, as commercial a star as you get from old Hollywood. And he's the boyfriend at the time of Candace Bergen, who's also a big Hollywood icon as well. Yeah. So where does Charles Manson... find any kind of grounding here. They basically kind of take over Dennis Wilson's life, don't they?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Which he had spent time doing. Doing, yes. He's predisposed in that direction. Most of these women are in their teens and 20s. Let's not forget. These are very vulnerable girls. White middle class girls that went to places like this.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
The 1960s in America were a whirlwind. War abroad, protests at home, civil rights advances, and then assassinations. And all the while, NASA racing to the moon. Old values were crumbling. Flower power energized a psychedelic generation searching for meaning, belonging, and truth.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
I don't want to digress, but I ended up in LA in the 70s. I missed the wave, but I remember that kind of seedy quality of the place back then. It still had that whiff in the air of all that kind of strange thing that was going on at that point. If you got there in 1965, 66, you were into something very mysterious and very interesting. And the house parties were amazing.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And the whole place was just taking off because it didn't cost any money to be there. They could just sort of overwhelm the place with this new thing, because the old guard was dead. That whole studio system was gone. The studio, right. That's right. The structure of the place was completely wiggly at this point.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Yeah, for sure. At the same time, or is it at the same time, they end up at a ranch called spawn ranch, or this is where they're sort of based, right? Yeah.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Right. There's a bunch of them like that. There's a bunch of those weird ranches, Maverick and all these places that you shoot commercials at nowadays.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And they're all out there. And this guy was George Spahn, who was one of those guys who owned this land. That's right. How did he know them? How did they how were they even able to approach him?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
It's such the story of people just using each other all over the place. I mean, here's an 80-year-old guy who's going to be blind, and suddenly, manna from heaven, these young women sort of arrive, and they're willing to give him massages or whatever. You know, like that's the story. Yeah. The good with the bad, you get these creepy guys like Tex Watson and
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
and all these other, you know, dangerous fellows, but he's mainly there for the girls. That's right.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Into this cultural chaos stepped Charles Manson, a drifter with a guitar, strange charisma, and a warped vision of the world. He created a small community, drawing on the lost and disillusioned, offering peace, purpose, and a place to belong. But this commune, rooted in music, drugs, and counterculture, would spiral into cult violence and fear.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
How does he have his effect on them? Is it purely through drugs or is it some sort of, does he have a protocol to this as far as training a group and making a cult?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
They speak of his eyes, that he had this mysterious gaze. Yeah. And that goes on till even in prison. People talk about it later on. What do you think that really was? I think the whole thing about Charlie's eyes is just that he paid attention.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Sure. We mentioned this before. This is a guy in his mid thirties at this point, 1968, he's 34 years old. Things start to change. And I mentioned before a pivot point for this guy. Things start to change when you're in that period of time, no matter who you are.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And I can't help but think this moment that I hinted about before happens because of the commercial aspect of the music industry and the fact that he was realizing in the midst of this hope and dream of, hey, I got the ticket here. I wrote a song. They even like it. We didn't mention this. The Beach Boys actually record one of his songs, which was called Cease to Exist.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
The Manson family is where the promise of the 60s turned into one of its darkest nightmares. And we tell the story today with Jeff Molnick, historian and professor at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. He is the author of Creepy Crawley, Charles Manson and the Many Lives of America's Most Infamous Family, which explores the Manson murders and how they've become embedded in American culture.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And they rename it into Learn Not to Love? Never Learn Not to Love. That's a terrible title. It's a terrible title. No wonder it failed. Hippie bullshit, yeah. But the disappointment that comes from this and the frustration of not getting his due as he sees it in the soul of a person who is basically a narcissist ego is a dangerous brew. And this is really what happens.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
This is what tips him over, not to mention the LSD, I'm sure.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
You're setting us up for the big part of the story, but I want to cover one other cultural aspect of this, which is the Beatles. I mean, the fact you've got on one hand, the Beach Boys are the American Beatles, but when the Beatles hit with their edgier albums, not least of which is the White Album. Yeah. In 1968. These guys take the world by storm.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
I mean, I'm really, maybe I'm off mark, but I find this such an interesting story from this other angle, which is this commercial angle of the times that this whole generation was realizing that. They were into a global world and global music and global marketing. And suddenly, you know, out of England comes this song Helter Skelter and people in Southern California are being guided by it.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Hello, Jeff. Nice to meet you. Good to meet you as well, Don. Jeff, the details of this crime are infinite. There are so many different personalities, so many young women in this family. Let's have a conversation that doesn't get too much into names. I just want to draw broad strokes here through this time. It becomes not only the investigation, but also the prosecution of it.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
It's a nutty thing. You know, when you think about it, when you pull back and wonder what happened to the world, well, that's what happened to the world in many ways. We just suddenly got a global perspective on everything.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
That which the beatniks were tapping into in the 50s is suddenly right smack in the middle of on your FM dial.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Yeah. And it was the apocalyptic aspect of it, that there was this end of world coming that Helter Skelter is really sort of about. And he certainly at this point of his life with this disappointments that he was struggling with or dealing with suddenly sort of taps into the theme and he begins to pull those poor young girls into this thing.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Having said poor young girls, we have to discuss the fact that they are responsible for their actions at some point. My Lord.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Yeah. We have mentioned this. How much of a white supremacist racist was Charles Manson and how much of that play into his actions?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
That's its own story entirely. Let's start with Charles Manson himself. He has the sadly typical broken home childhood, becoming a boy to young man with a rap sheet so long it'd take an episode to describe it. Where is he born and how does he come to this life of crime?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Mm-hmm. You mentioned the desert. I just want to keep track of where these people are and how large a group they've become. How many kids were in this cult at this point?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
That's a surprising number. I don't think people think that way of it. Oh, it's a big operation. And yet so few will really take part in the murders themselves. Right. So that's not like we're all sitting down for meetings about how we're going to do this whole thing.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Yeah. So for whatever thematic reasons, race, war, etc., we really are talking about a guy, a vengeance murder here as far as his feelings about Terry Melcher. So let's talk about what happens. August 8th, 1969. They've been living this life in Los Angeles for about a year or more, I suppose, at that point. A little bit more, yeah.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And this small inner circle is engaged on his behalf to do mayhem. They scope this thing out, right? They figure out where they're going to go first. And Charles probably had something to do with that. But on the night itself, take me through the events that lead to them inside this house and killing people.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
When you drive up in those hills, you have no relation to LA geography. It's a totally different world up there.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
I want to be clear. This is the house that was previously occupied, and they aren't there right now, by Terry Melcher and his girlfriend, Candace Bergen. They've gone to London, I think it is, and they're doing business somewhere else. Yeah. The house is occupied by the following people. Sharon Tate, Roman Polanski, who is not present on the night.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Jay Sebring, who is a hairstylist and a big, you know, man about town in those days. Coffee heiress, Abigail Folger, and Folger's boyfriend, Wojtek Frykowski. So this group of people are in this house. There's also a little house in the back, typical of these hill houses. Sharon Tate, eight months pregnant. Young. What is she, 26 at this time?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
A huge rising star in Hollywood. Watch Valley of the Dolls. And she's about to become a mom. And that's how vicious this murder really is. What happens?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Then the crime scene photos show that they've used the blood to draw words on the wall. Pig is on the wall. All of this suggestive of this race war that they're trying to initiate. Right. I guess they hoped that the police would think that black people had done this and therefore whatever was going to happen. And that didn't stick at all.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Jeff, the police work involved, never mind the lawyer work down the line, putting this kind of crazy crime together is a real mess at first, isn't it? I mean, they don't even know they've got the guys. They arrest them for a different reason, and suddenly they start to piece it together. That's right.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And they must do a kind of roll up on them where they started, you know, they've got a lot of sources of information here. They got all those girls. So they start hearing the story being told from different angles.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
I always wondered, do you happen to know this? Why Manson wasn't at this murder? If it was so important to him that I would think he would have wanted to go kill Terry Melcher.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Makes him so creepy. He's also a small guy. He's not a big person. This is not a powerful physical presence. Unlike Tex Watson, his first lieutenant, who's like a high school football, literally a high school football hero.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
So Charlie thinks these murders have been done in a messy way is the word, which is a weird word for it, but But they weren't done according to scripted, right? They needed to be done better. And so he dispatches another group to do another bunch of murders the next night. That's right.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Angelinos. Yeah. You know, I think of the Menendez when I think of this, I don't know why, but it seems like that same class that we're talking about. I have a note that actually the Mansons knew about these people because members of their family had been to a party in that neighborhood.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
So I guess they had sort of an awareness of the neighborhood and they would have been chosen at random for that lifestyle, let alone. But whatever it is, it's not clear why the Labiancas were part of this thing. But that's even gnarlier what happens here. They carve the name war into the stomach of one of the victims. Death to pigs and rise on the wall. Helter Skelter is drawn on the fridge.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
It's all in human blood. It's all just gross. You know, it's a really creepy horror movie version of this murder. And it does seem to have, I'm telling you what you've already told me, but I just want to underscore it. It seems to have all been scripted. That's what you walk away from. You feel like this is all a picture of what he saw in the world and how this would need it to be enacted.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Let's talk about how they get caught. We mentioned that there was another place out in the desert that they were going to called the Barker Ranch. weirdly for a TV job, I went to the Barker ranch. It's way, way out there in the way out. Have you been there, Jeff? I have not. Oh my God. Let me explain it to you. It's a really fascinating thing. I couldn't believe I got this chance to do this.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And this is like a little weird onion skin of the TV business. So my job was on cities, the underworld to go underneath places in the world that people couldn't get to. Yeah. Quite literally, I crawled in tunnels. So we decided to go out and find these tunnels and these underworlds of Charles Manson.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And that, you know, where were these caves that he was going to go into and find, you know, when the race war went on or whatever was the fabled thing. And so we went out there to the place. It turns out, at least in those days, you could drive down this road and there's two structures. They're pretty close to each other. But the second one, I believe, is the actual structure of the Barker Ranch.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And it's nowhere near anything. And so you can basically get out of your car, walk into this place. It's not occupied in those days. Anyway, there was a guest book of all things sitting on the front desk there, which had sort of scribbled names and people. It wasn't very formal. And then it's like tumbleweed city in the place, you know, it's just dusty and gross and all open.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And you can walk around. And so I literally found the cabinet that they found Charles Manson hiding in. Or at least a bathroom cabinet in this bathroom. And so one can assume that must have been it. It was such a weird close proximity to the story.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
So, Jeff, I have 1934 as his birthday. He's from the American Midwest, from Ohio. And the story of Manson will spread nationally. It's amazing. I mean, forget about the later on. He's all over the place with his prisons and reform schools all through the 50s, all through his youth, right?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And that's interesting to me in this conversation, because when you go to Los Angeles, you will feel that vibe still today, not the Manson vibe, but this kind of odd quality to that community, which is this sort of desert arid community. And then this massive commercial enterprise in the middle of it all.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
It's sort of the juxtaposition of these two is everything about the Manson story in a way, you know, a million other stories too. But when you're out there in the desert, you see how far flung this family really was and how they could get away if they wanted to. And that's what happens. A number of them are arrested at Barker Ranch on charges of arson and theft, right? 24 of them.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
This is a story for another time that of the trial and all of the whole, um, Circus of it all really was what it was. It went too crazy. So just know that they were sentenced. They were found guilty and many of them went away for prison. But I will say this about this Manson family that I don't know that these rather tacky, rather, as you say, marginalized is a nice word for them.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
low-life people would have been the story they would have been if not for Charles Manson and his manipulative ways, of course. But even Charles Manson wouldn't have been the star if not for the times he lived in and the wiliness with which he operated and decided to land himself in the midst of a very successful industry and then failed at it. All of that setup is really why we have
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
this creepy story with us today. And we give these people a lot more credit than they're due in terms of cultural figures, in my opinion. But when we look at them so closely, we're really looking at the times in America and this transition that was happening in media.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Infiltrating lives. Absolutely. So ironically, we end up still serving him. The irony is that he's infiltrated our culture, hasn't he, Jeff?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
He took it past the pale. I mean, we were way past any moment that, I mean, it was going to happen sooner or later that murder and mayhem had taken to this point. But really what he is, the important thing is it happens at the time that it does. That's right. And so you end up with the exploitive nature of media taking advantage of it and making hay with it and all this rest. That's right.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And this time in Hollywood, I want to emphasize that this was the transition in Hollywood from what was a kind of an innocent time many people's estimation into this much bigger international blockbuster economy.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Those people that were his contemporaries were all getting older. They were having their families. They were building their big houses. They wanted their money. That's right. They want the gates. Keep the freaks out. Exactly. So all that little niche of time was where the Manson murders live. It just so happened.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
The Godfather. You have the big blockbuster start to come. You know, it's that time frame. And Hollywood gets serious. And that's what happens is that all the innocence is gone. But the innocence also led to Charles Manson. So no thanks for that. Yeah, that's right.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Jeffrey Paul Melnick is the name of the author that I've been interviewing. Jeff Melnick, thank you very much. Cultural historian and professor at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. He is author of the book we've been talking all about called Creepy Crawley, Charles Manson and the Many Lives of America's Most Infamous Family.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
I encourage you to read it if you're interested in the cultural aspect of this thing. Really fascinating. Thank you so much, Jeff. We'll meet again. Thanks, Tom. That was fantastic. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
All kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode. By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Hi everyone, it's Don here. This episode contains details of mass murder that may be distressing to some listeners. Hello movie lovers! It's February 2020 and time for the 92nd Academy Awards here in Los Angeles, California. Once more, the glittering elite of Hollywood are gathered to honor the year's biggest movies and the nominees who made them. Yes, the paparazzi are hiving to the stars.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
This is the story of the opposite of rehabilitation, you know, where somebody finds themselves, you know, literally at home in this system, which is a nightmare. Exactly. After that 1967 release, it's reported that he wanted to stay there. He asked to remain in prison. I mean, that's how dependent he was on this. That's right. Interestingly, he is a nonviolent criminal to that point, right?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
There's not a lot of reports of him abusing people, or I guess there's abuses in there as well, right, in the reform school.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Yeah. He becomes a cultural figure because he's so intuitive about things, isn't he? He's not just able to read people. He's also sees the times around him. He's a very wily character. That's right. Wiley is a great word. He really is like a trickster. And we often talk on this podcast about the power of media, you know, in American culture.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And it really has come completely to the fore at this point in the 1960s. And people are getting rich off of it. You know, rock stars are being born and all that sort of thing. And he sees that, which is weird because he's been in a prison the whole time. How he how he understands this. So, you know, on a gut level is really interesting. That's quite done.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
He sees this whole other thing going on. Right. Exactly. I mean, there's going to be a pivot point in his personality, which is a really important factor in understanding him or not. You know, it might be apocryphal, but it seems like that happens to this guy for whatever terrible childhood he had, which is typical of these guys who are institutionalized.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
That was, you know, perhaps blameable on those parents that raised him, alcoholic mother, all the rest of that stuff. But then comes the emergence into becoming a man, and you see this sort of intelligence and this sort of intuitive quality to this guy, which gets applied to crime for whatever reason, maybe his background.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
But there will come a time in this conversation when it turns, when this guy turns into a really... scary person. And that's what's interesting to me. So 1967, he's released from prison in California, right? He was, he was like sort of inland in the state. Yeah. Okay. But he's in the Northern area. So he heads for San Francisco.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
I mean, and that's where it's happened in the summer of love, hate Ashbury LSD and Charles Manson is a pig in the sty.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
There's the wonderful Tom Hanks waving warmly to his fans. Joaquin Phoenix steps up, brooding darkly. the beautiful Natalie Portman, dressed in velvet, and Keanu Reeves being, well, Keanu Reeves. And there's DiCaprio, Pitt, and Margot Robbie, the glamorous entourage from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, nominated in ten categories.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
It's interesting. Well, so much was going on, especially in the Bay Area, I'm sure, in the academic world. I mean, there was so much study being done of the effects of psychedelics and not legally, but I mean, it was a great deal of interest in what LSD was doing. There was also rumors of the CIA being involved in this community in some way. I mean, there was a lot going on behind the scenes.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And he was tapping into all of this zeitgeist, wasn't he? Absolutely.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
But he's straddling two things. I mean, he's still a young guy. He still likes young women. And that's an incredibly powerful position to be in for a guy like this who's going to tip off into the dark side of all of that pretty soon. That's right. But having these adoring young things around him. But that was the thing in those days. Communes were in. Group marriage. Yeah.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
It was all kind of bred for a cult in those days. It was really dangerous. And he would also have an incredible radar for vulnerable youth who were troubled, who ran away for the same reasons that he had trouble when he was a kid. So he could talk the talk. He really understood it. So he connects. But this is all about this part one of Charles Manson, in my mind. And part two comes pretty soon.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
But At what point does this now family, and how many people are we talking about in San Francisco?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
At some point, they decide to grab a bus, you know, not unlike Ken Kesey and all of them, and head on down south to LA. Everybody's got their connections. There's family connections. People have people that they're going to go for money. You know how it is when you're young. So off they go thinking they have a pretty good bead on a new life down in Los Angeles. Where does that take him?
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
it'll only win in two but who's counting when you've already packaged an infamous slaughter into a box office bonanza featuring that wacky crew of cult killers the manson family on this celebrated evening their names may not be mentioned but their shadows are lurking stalking the edges of a blood-red carpet This is American History Hit, and I am Don Wildman. Glad you're listening.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
Los Angeles in the 60s and 70s, primarily the 60s, is where company town meets counterculture. And it's this fascinating mix because it never loses the fact that everybody's there to make money. Yep. All those guys who moved out from New York, the gangsters there, everybody who's there is because big money can be made. And those people know how to, you know, they can smell that kind of thing.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
And it's the cheap apartments. It's the cheap, you know, Oceanside houses that are there. This amazing playground is there for these very smart men and women who are ready to cash out or cash in. Yeah. And along come all these hangers on. And that's kind of the Manson family thing that's going on here.
American History Hit
The Manson Family: Cult Murder in Hollywood
So he, you know, very famously crosses paths with the Beach Boys, or at least one member of them, Dennis Wilson. Where in the chronology of this does this happen? Pretty early, isn't it? Yeah, it is.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
But it's telling that the first capital was in Montgomery in Alabama, so deep in the south. They didn't know. I mean, it's very likely that Virginia would have been a border state, right?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
I'll be right back after this short break. Meantime, if you'd like us to cover anything specifically, if you have any ideas of subject matter we should be looking at, send us an email at ahh.historyhit.com. We'd love to hear from you.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Grüße, Leute, es ist Don Wildman hier, euer Host für ein weiteres Video von American History Hit. Willkommen. Heute ist ein Teil unserer Deep Dive-Serie über die Natur und die Praxis der Konföderation. Die 11 Staaten, die von der Union über den Winter und den Frühjahr 1860-1861 verabschiedeten, die in den Krieg bis 1865 engagierten.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
It's all about getting the supply lines of the North stretched out as thinly as possible, which of course doesn't happen as well as they planned, especially when the Mississippi River kicks over to the Union. And all of those supply lines are maintained, especially when you have a quartermaster, a professional quartermaster in charge in the Ulysses S. Grant. That was the big factor.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
When that doesn't work out and they're really on their heels, it becomes a guerrilla warfare, doesn't it?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
This is so exciting to me to finally understand and say once and for all, I understand how the North understood how to fight the South, which was, you know, chicken and egg conversation. Did the North recognize the offensive defensive strategy or the other way around? Did the South understand how to beat them by drawing them in?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Südkarolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Nordkarolina und Tennessee in dieser chronologischen Ordnung. Ich liste sie, um zu sagen, was für eine massive Geografie von 750.000 Quadratmetern wir betrachten. Was die Frage ist, wie würden sie diese Krieg kämpfen? Was war die Strategie?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
It's a chilling fact how late in the game this could have gone otherwise. Why did they lose? I mean, what's sort of the list of factors that causes that to happen?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
The first draft in the United States is the Southern Conscription. Does that continue throughout the war? Does it cycle?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Ja, man wundert sich, warum sie so lange warten. Ich meine, das sind Leute, denen man sagen könnte, was zu tun ist. Ich glaube, es war, um die Heimatfront zu halten, richtig?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Gegen so einen hervorragenden Feu wie die Vereinigten Staaten, deren Bevölkerung die Süd-Mortem 3 zu 1 übernommen hat. Keine Ahnung, ihre offenen Vorteile in Equipment und Supplies. Cecily Zander kommt heute mit mir, wie sie es in der Vergangenheit herzlich gemacht hat. Cecily war mein Gast für Episode 162, Ulysses S. Grant und der Zivilen Krieg.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
How much of a factor did exemptions for slave-holding Southerners play in this? I mean, here's the fact. For each 20 enslaved people, one white man must stay on the plantation. That was the kind of rule of thumb, right?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
It's all about supplies, of course, in fighting any war. And the original northern strategy of the Anaconda Plan, the Scots Anaconda, it gets caught up to by Grant's meat grinder of a pursuit. It becomes a successful blockade that plays such a factor because they can't get weapons, they can't get ammunition from other sides.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
If Lincoln was so worried in the summer of 1864 that his lack of re-election would cause the North to lose, the South must have been dying for this. That must have been fundamental for them. But was it that political problem, that political outcome, was that the fateful moment towards the end?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
She is author of Abraham Lincoln and the American West, a manuscript in progress. Also The Army Under Fire, Anti-Militarism in the Civil War Era from 2024. Welcome Cicely Zander back to American History. Thanks for coming.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
I have a feeling we're coming back to you for Sherman's March, which we've yet to do on this podcast. It is the fateful military move that does end the war. But I really want to point out something I'm even sort of learning. I've never really framed it mentally as it's the election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860 and then the re-election in 1864 that really frames this entire thing.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Outcome of the war. At least 620,000 dead from both sides. 360,000 approximately from the US and 258,000 from the Confederates. More Union dead than Confederates.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Ja, es wird die Söhne der Konföderationen nehmen, um diese ganze Idee wiederherzustellen. April 9th, Appomattox Courthouse, Virginia. Ulysses S. Grant akzeptiert den ungewöhnlichen Verabschiedung von General Robert E. Lee, sehr berühmt, und der Zivilkrieg endet am 13. Mai 1865. An diesem very moment, the Confederate States of America ceased to exist. It was never a nation outside of war.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
And so arguable it was never a nation, you know, although it's the way we talk about it. I guess it's important just to put a pin in this idea. The Confederacy went to war against the United States to protect slavery and instead brought about its own and immediate abolition, which is just a. A bumper sticker on this entire idea, isn't it?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
There's so many takeaways. For me, it's thank God for the Gettysburg Address. That's usually the one I go to. And that it's scrawled on the walls of the Lincoln Memorial. I mean, it's got to be the takeaway from all of this. Cecily Zander is an accomplished academic, author and speaker. She is the author of the upcoming Abraham Lincoln and the American West.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
also the Army Under Fire, Anti-Militarism in the Civil War Era from Baton Rouge, Louisiana State Press, as well as a number of articles in various peer articles, which you can see, as I did, at cicelynzander.com, where you can also view photographs of Moe, the border collie, who has seen this nation in every battlefield along the way and chased many a ball across them.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Thank you very much, Cecily. Nice to see you again. We'll talk to you again down the road. Thanks, Don. I appreciate it.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Hello folks, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Each week we release new episodes, two new episodes, dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of great content, like mysterious missing colonies, to powerful political movements, to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Bye for now.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
So much of the organization of the Confederacy, its constitution, it was all a mirror image of the United States. And I suppose that went for the military as well. The United States to this point was very suspicious of its own standing armies. You know, it didn't believe in that idea. Was the same true of the Confederacy?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
It's really, I mean, you grow up hearing about the Kentucky and, you know, first Pennsylvania or something. They really were local militia or state militia, at least forged into a whole army. And that went for both sides. Who was in charge militarily?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Der Konfederate-Konstitution erklärt ihn als Kommandeur-in-Chief, genau wie die US-Konstitution. Und auch interessanterweise war er der Sekretär der Krieg unter Franklin Pierce. Also er weiß, wie all diese Hierarchien funktionieren sollen. Wann steigt Robert E. Lee in die Macht, Kommandeur der Armee in Nord-Virginia?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Does being the commander of the Army of Northern Virginia, a very glorious title there, put him de facto, is he in charge over Davis or does he really answer to Jeff Davis?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
This is a good chance to drill down a bit on Jefferson Davis the way we really often don't. Jefferson Davis, West Point graduate with experience, lots of experience in the Mexican-American War, distinguished himself really. As I said, a former Secretary of War under Franklin Pierce and now he's Commander-in-Chief.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Is this going to play, all this experience, is it going to play to his favor as the President or is it going to make him more of a meddler?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
He clashes with Beauregard, who was the general who starts the Sumter, and as you say, Joseph Johnston. How do they work that stuff out? Like, is it a greased machine as they get going?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
It's interesting how history, traditional history of the Civil War paints it differently. We're fed this idea that the southern states had this whole kind of military thing. They were just good at what they did. And Lee was just this respected, elegant commander. They had all the same political problems, never mind logistical problems as the North.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Kind of one of the factors that makes it a more efficient war is they're on their home territory, right? Most of the time.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Die Tredegar-Ironworks hier in Richmond, Virginia, rohren mit Feuer und Schmuck. Die größten Ironworks in der Konföderation. Von hier, auf dem James-River, entsteht etwa die Hälfte der Artillerie, die von den Konföderat-Mitgliedern verwendet wird, und dann rollt sie aus auf Rädern, die hier wahrscheinlich auch hergestellt wurden.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Wussten sie, dass dieser ganze Krieg auf ihrem Boden gespielt werden würde? Ja.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Interessant. Sie meinen, Lincoln zu der Negotiationsstelle zu forcieren. Das ist wirklich das generelle Ziel und Ziel dieser Strategie. Eine defensive Strategie ist eigentlich eine sehr starke Krieg, um zu kämpfen. Weil du immer weißt, was du tun wirst. Und es forciert die Hand deines Rivalen, weil sie alle Arbeiten und alle Arbeiten bringen müssen.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Und es ist einfach ein entschädigendes Prozess, jemanden auf ihrem Heimterritorium zu folgen. Es gibt einen Punkt, wo das sehr nahe an der Arbeit für sie ist. Wann beginnt die offensive defensive Strategie?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Well, and defending all their territories is obviously going to stretch their forces too thin, so they have to keep doing that. Talk about how slavery played a role in their general strategy. How were they going to use this? I guess they thought of it as an asset, right?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
You can kind of map the Civil War by, it sort of happens around these prioritized areas where slavery was a big part of life. Is that just a coincidence? I mean, that's how they planned it out?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Das ist alles in Saga-Form gedreht. Was bedeutet das genau und sprechen wir von nur ein paar Geschichten oder von vielen, vielen?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Von allem, was wir heute gesehen haben, ist überall, wo wir geflogen sind, sicher, dass dieses Land ohne Bewohner ist. Kannst du dir vorstellen, ein Weltraum weit von unserem eigenen, ein neues Land, ein wärmeres Land, reich an Bäumen, offenen Späten und abenteuerndem Wild. Zuhause werden wir von unserem Erfolg weinen.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Hatten sie Sagen über all ihre Weltreise geschrieben? Waren sie Mönche? Wer schrieb all diese Dinge?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Die zwei Star, mit denen wir uns beschäftigt haben, sind Eric the Red und sein Sohn, welcher mir berühmt wurde, weil es für mich etwas kalt geworden ist, ist Leif, Erics Sohn, was absolut Sinn macht. Also erzähl mir über ihre Reise. Es ist ein Teil 1 und 2, der erste Teil ist Griechenland und der zweite Teil ist Nordamerika, oder?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Hello everybody, I'm Don Wildman and this is American History Hit. When we were young, in grade school, those of us of a certain age learned that Christopher Columbus discovered America in 1492. Never mind the man never set foot on the mainland, but only on sandy islands in the Caribbean.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Wir sind gut in der Ära, die Sie vorhin erwähnt haben, in Bezug auf die Besetzung. Sie haben eine andere Mentalität jetzt. Lass uns das probieren. Das könnte für uns eine neue Heimatland sein, oder?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Yes. Where they choose to settle, where Leif stakes his ground out, is it Labrador or is it Newfoundland?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Never mind that for more than 10,000 years mankind was already here, developing sophisticated societies across continents north and south. Turns out the voyages of Christopher Columbus were mostly about Christianization and the coming colonial incursions of the Spanish Empire. Historically, Columbus' so-called discovery is really a whitewash on the darker realities of conquest and domination.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Das ist so interessant. Ich meine, das klärt etwas für mich an meiner Zeit, warum ich in der late 1960er-Jahre in der Grundschule war. Und plötzlich sagten sie, wir denken, dass es vielleicht so ist, weil diese Erfindungen nur einfach gemacht wurden. und durch die 1960er-Jahre bis 1968 veröffentlicht worden. Und das ist der Ort, an den Sie berichtet haben, L'Anse aux Meadows, das ist Neufenland.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Beschreiben Sie das Gebäude dort, was Sie archäologisch gefunden haben.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Genau. Das würde auch von der Tatsache, dass es keine Geburtstätten gibt, beurteilt werden. Ich meine, das ist das, was Archäologen immer suchen, wenn es um weitere Versammlungen und Generationen geht und so weiter. Keiner ist in diesen Orten gebürtigt.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Nonetheless, it was the notion of discovery that stuck for us youngsters. And so it was, until we received the boggling news that it was actually the Vikings who were here first. Sie waren die europäischen Explorers, die Amerika zuerst entdeckt haben. Sie haben fünf Jahrhunderte früher als Kolumbus in der heutigen Kanada stattgefunden.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Nun, ein moderner Amerikaner muss den Fakt, dass die Minnesota-Vikings nicht korrekt genannt wurden, dass es keine Vikings in Minnesota gab, obwohl Begriffe gemacht wurden, sprich die Kensington-Rundstunde, all diese mythologische Beweise.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Diese historische Misserfahrung hat sich erhoben, weil das Rekord der Vikings in Nordamerika mehr eine Legende als eine Faktik bekannt war, basierend auf Sagas und nicht auf Schöpfung. Aber in den 1960er-Jahren hat sich all das verändert. Archäologische Erkenntnisse in Kanada beweisen, dass der europäische erste Aufstieg definitiv ein Norse-Erlebnis war. Alle anderen kamen viel später mit.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Okay, sagen wir es. Obwohl, ich muss sagen, sehr wunderschöne Leute, in Wahrheit, eine liebe Freundin meines, hat Bücher auf ihrer Schale, die sie mir vor Jahren herausgegeben hat, mit erstaunlichem Beweis, dass das passiert ist. Es ist eine interessante Psychologie hinter diesem, weil das ist eine sehr schöne Person, über die ich spreche. Es gab hier keine tiefen, weiße, suprematistische Agenda.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Es ist nur eine Wunder und eine interessante, um herauszufinden, woher wir alle kommen, in dieser großen, vermischten Tasche, die Amerika ist. Und das ist eine faszinierende Idee, diese Weiterentwicklung der Viking-Exploration. Es ist ein bisschen sexy. Und es gibt viele Wege, wie sie es tun könnten, je nachdem, wie ambitiös sie waren und wie ressourcene sie waren.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Und es gab viele Wasserwege, die sie in diese Weise nehmen konnten. Also gibt es viele Gründe, zu wundern. Es ist nur so, dass die Beweise nicht wirklich da sind.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Wir diskutieren das heute in der Firma von Martin Wittek, einem Historiker und Autor aus den USA, dessen neuestes Buch ist American Vikings, How the Norse Sailed into the Lands and Imaginations of America, das am 7. November herauskommt. Hallo Martin, wie geht es dir?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Martin, mein inneres Kind ist lebendig und gut. So viele Fragen. Zuerst, die Identität der Vikings. Ich war nie klar, wer sie waren und woher sie kamen.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Was hat diese Idee getriggert? Ich meine, dieser eine Aspekt des Norse-Viking-Aktivs. War es die Seelieferung, war es eine Erweiterung der Seelieferungsmöglichkeiten, oder was hat diese Idee wirklich geschaffen?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Wow. Wir denken, die Welt ist so klein jetzt, aber sie war damals tatsächlich klein. Ich meine, internationale Events haben Dinge so nahe wie in Skandinavien beeinflusst. Das ist unglaublich.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Unglaublich. War es ... Ich meine, wir sind so beeinflusst von den Medien und den Filmen, die wir gesehen haben. War es mehr um Handel als um Krieg? Ich glaube, es war eine Mischung von beidem.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Und an welchem Punkt werden die Ambitionen über Beschlüsse und die Erstellung einer Zivilisation auf der anderen Seite? Wann wird das umgehen?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Die Bäume kreisen, als wir hart auf die Oren schießen, gegen einen steifen, ausgehenden Tiefen. Unser Schiff fährt in einen Schwellen, in Richtung eines schwarzen Flusses, der vorbeigeht. Tauernde Klöpfe, spotiert mit Grün, werden durch Wasserfalle, Inländer, das Öffnen eines vielleicht kleinen Baus, beobachtet.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
Also bevor wir über Amerika sprechen und all das, möchte ich an einem Bild in meinem Geist einstellen, diese fabelnden Schiffe. Wie viel von diesem ist Art Direction, du weißt, aus unserer Zeit, versus was sie tatsächlich aussehen und die Schiffe, in denen sie waren. Ich sehe eine Art romansches Design für sie, richtig?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
In den Wäldern rund um uns schimmeln teemende Fischschuhe auf der Oberfläche, als die Vögel in sie reißen. Nebenan aspirieren zwei Flügel Wasser, als große Wälder von unten ausatmen. Ein Rheinbein schlägt durch den Mist. Um die Schuhe zu beobachten, gehen wir in die trockenen Wälder, wo wir einen grünen, schwarzen Kamm sehen, der über die riesigen Wälder hinausläuft.
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
So this is my simplistic understanding and I mean grade school. Vikings come from Scandinavia. At some point early on they sail to Ireland. From Ireland they learn of Iceland. From Iceland they learn of Greenland. And that's where they understand that a vast land exists even farther west. How true was this simplistic idea?
American History Hit
Did Vikings Reach the US?
This is by the way the theory of why Icelandic people are so bloody attractive. Because they kidnapped all the pretty people from Ireland and took them to Iceland, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Yeah. We mentioned leadership and some leaders who weren't so good. And you also mentioned William L. Calley. Explain to me where he sits in this story as one of those leaders of a squadron or a company. He's leader of a platoon. Platoon, I'm sorry.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Yeah. He was kind of a people pleaser personality, wasn't he? He wanted to do good, but too well. Like he was trying too hard.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
All of this is a reminder that we are standing on an army base, a place built for war. But here, as we face the stark and simple building ahead of us, war is not being waged, but it is being judged. Today marks the beginning of the trial of Lieutenant William Calley Jr., accused of the premeditated murder of unarmed civilians at a small village called My Lai in South Vietnam.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
We've all met those people. And while you can see they're trying their hardest, it's also annoying as heck. And so you're like, ugh. And that was kind of this weird chemistry with this guy. So there was no reason to kick him out of the role. But everyone kind of resented him for what he was doing and the personality quality that he had.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Unfortunately, that translates, as we'll see, into some military choices that are really bad. March 15th, 1968, they received new orders about a group of villages called My Lai, an area known as Pinkville for its color on the maps. This is a hotbed of Viet Cong activity, according to intelligence reports, which were a little sketchy.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Medina organizes this effort that they're going to go out into this area, but reminds the troops of their losses. And one particular one, Sergeant Cox, a very popular leader, as opposed to a Cali, this guy had stepped on a landmine, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
So these are the pre-existing conditions when March 16th comes around. 5.30 a.m., they are aroused from bed to gear up. Nine helicopters leave their zone. More will follow. The key point here before we get into what happens... is that the artillery fire, as you mentioned before, was used to clear the area.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Typical strategy to try to clear the area so that they could land their helicopters and be not under fire. But it has a strange effect on the overall strategy, doesn't it?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Right. So they think that because it's early in the morning, dawn really, The women and children will have left for market as they normally would, and that will leave only the fighting few behind, and they'll be able to take care of them. The effect of the artillery is that it actually scares those villagers back into their shelters, back to the village, and they end up not leaving that area.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
So now you have unarmed civilians and supposedly the Viet Cong that are there together. And that's the situation that this company lands into, this platoon lands into.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Today, there will be an American soldier, not an enemy, standing in the dock. It will be the United States Army which will decide whether one of its own committed an unspeakable crime. Within the building, inside the courtroom, the wooden witness stand is, for the moment, empty, and the courtroom still.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I'll be back with more American history after this short break.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
The blood is high, as you've said, this memorial service, all the feelings they have about everything, the urgency and the push that they've gotten from command. They arrive, and how do things go wrong? Because they go very wrong.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
So the actions that they take, which will famously be told in trials and so forth, are unprovoked? That's correct. Okay.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Okay. Well, I'll leave it to you to explain and illustrate what we're talking about. I mean, it's called the My Lai Massacre for a reason. What happens over what period of time?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
The question will become, how much are they working on orders? How much did everyone decide that this is how they're going to behave when they get there in the first place? One way or the other, extraordinary things are happening, as you're explaining. In the end, upwards of 500 civilians of this community are killed.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
And these are unarmed civilians, as you've said, including pregnant women and children. They are raped. There are gang rapes. Grenades are thrown into buildings. They're torched. The homes and places are burned down. It's just an extraordinary thing to imagine happening unless you had already decided to do it.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I mean, are we talking about mass hysteria here among these troops or is this something that they came in with a plan for?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Much will come out later in the testimony at the trial, but here's one snippet here. Vernado Simpson, a member of the 2nd Platoon, interviewed in a book, Quote, I cut their throats, I cut off their hands, I cut out their tongue, their hair, scalped them. I did it. A lot of people were doing it, and I just followed. I lost all sense of direction. That man, Simpson, later took his own life.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I mean, it's an extraordinary thing to imagine. Of course, we've watched the movies. Everyone has sought to understand what happened in this world. That's why we've spent so much time explaining the circumstances before they get there and while they're getting ready to do this. You try to make some sense of it in your mind, but it's almost impossible. I want to spend a little more time on Callie.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
This is American History It, and I'm Don Wildman. Today, we'll discuss the not-so-distant past, at least for some of us. Though I was but a youngster at the time, I can vividly recall the images of horrific fighting in a faraway land called Vietnam.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I mean, as far as the story goes later on told, how much was he actually responsible for giving the orders directly for this action?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
While my sisters and I lived our normal childhood lives, going to school and playing sports and having family dinners at night, that war overseas was escalating, as was reported nightly on the news with body counts and footage of firefights in the jungle.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I want to talk about Hugh Thompson. He comes in on a helicopter and there's a very dramatic moment when they actually land the helicopter between the civilians and American troops. So there were those, of course, who saw what was happening, whose heads were above water here. Explain Hugh Thompson's role.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
It was a weird dichotomy here on the home front, one we lived with for years, until it all came to a chaotic conclusion in 1975 with helicopters evacuating Americans from the roof of the U.S. Embassy. Vietnam was never the right kind of war, if there is such a thing. Victory and surrender would never be formalized.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Well, they had to be aware, as opposed to other missions they'd been on, nobody was firing at them. That's a really important point here, right? It is. He would have automatically been, what the heck is going on here? We're not taking any fire from anyone, and yet there's tremendous amounts of things going on on the ground, violent things going on.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
This is all out of whack for anybody who had any perspective at all.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
This is all over the next day, March 17th. There now becomes the issue of how does this story get handled by the military, and how does it eventually come out?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
In the aftermath, the nation had to come to terms with both the courage and honor of those servicemen and women who sacrificed so much, but also with the difficult news of stunning atrocities committed by some U.S.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I'll be back with more American history after this short break.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
The report is flat out declared false on April 24th, 1968, by the commander of the 11th Infantry Brigade. It's really a year later when it starts to come clear, right? In March of 1968. Yes. It eventually becomes what is a Pulitzer winning, you know, news reports for Seymour Hersh. Very famously, it becomes a gigantic report. journalist as a result of this. That's when I became aware of it.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I remember as a kid to understand that we're suddenly hearing the word massacre, which is something that we just hadn't heard before. Of course, Vietnam was controversial. Walter Cronkite was having questions about it. Dan Rather was on the news.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
It was all that kind of new experience for Americans to see the journalists covering this in not a supporting role any longer, but rather a critical role, because a lot of this stuff had been getting out. through the bars of Saigon, I'm sure, and all kinds of information was being had. It officially gets out in October of 1969. That's when Seymour Hersh begins to publish.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
troops in combat, most notorious of all, the My Lai Massacre of 1968, which is our subject today, with guest historian and archivist Christopher Levesque, who teaches at the University of Western Florida, Pensacola, and the University of Charleston. Hello, Chris. Nice to have you on the show. Nice to be here. Chris, the events at hand happened in March 1968.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Chris, when does the news media officially start talking about this? When is it reported?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
So the military had taken a different tack on this. They had already started to handle this internally.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
It's such an interesting lens because that's an ex-soldier talking to active soldiers, his friends. I mean this as a lens because you're looking into the unease that soldiers had about what they were doing in Vietnam. And that speaks to the lack of goal, lack of objective, the missions that they were on.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
There was no sense of that in Vietnam, or at least there was less than there needed to be as far as what the U.S. military was doing in this country. And that comes down to the average person. You know, grunt soldier, like, why am I being told to do things that I don't even understand what I'm doing?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
And that became a hotbed, you know, as much of a protest as what was happening back in the United States, back in this, you know, the student populations and the protests and so forth. That was really the weirdness of this war. It started with Korea. Some of that was already happening in Korea as well.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
But really in Vietnam, that's what really creates the whole problem, the negativity of the whole mission that we had there. And a written hour is one example of these people who are talking among themselves. So he's the source of the information that then only snowballs, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
At this point, we're a few years into the buildup of US troops in Vietnam. Nixon has taken the presidency. Lyndon Johnson is long gone. But on the ground in Vietnam, the US is reeling from the Tet Offensive. Can you describe the general circumstances for the US military in Vietnam at this time?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
And the photographs that were taken that day, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
It's gory stuff. Let's just say it. They're gory stuff. It's hard to look at.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Right. We have no pictures of the people in the pit. I don't know. Maybe we do.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
So how does this then go to trial? We're talking about a court-martial, right? Yes. Why is it only Callie that ends up being tried? He's first.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
22 counts of premeditated murder. Right. And no one else goes down because of this, just him.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I want to read a quote from Kali. I'm not sure where he said this. You can help me with that. Quote, They never let me believe it was just a philosophy in a man's mind. That was my enemy out there. I suppose he's speaking more generally about the experience of being in Vietnam, but he applies that mindset in defending himself at My Lai.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Tell me what punishment he serves as a result. In a lot of ways, it's not much.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
anti-Vietnam War movement. But many people don't agree with the verdict. I mean, there is a general sense in America that he wasn't guilty of anything but killing Vietnamese, which, you know, even to that time, we still didn't understand back here what was really going on.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
All those things, all those movies, all those, you know, all that media that would one day change the story for us had yet to come out. So the White House received, I read 300,000 letters and telegrams in three months in support of Calley. So you can understand the qualms that were going on as far as the punishment of this guy goes. That's as far as the domestic side of things.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Did the My Lai Massacre change US strategy in Vietnam and afterwards?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
And a whole generation of future officers and leaders of the U.S. military comes out of this. Colin Powell, first and foremost, who speak of taking no action unless there's a way out, you know, unless you can clearly see the way in and the way out, which holds for a while and then comes Afghanistan.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Yeah, exactly. We see that enacted there. My own closure, for what it's worth, is that we went back in the 2000s to shoot a TV show. I have never been treated more kindly and more generously than by the average person in Vietnam, both North and South. It was an extraordinary trip of my life where I had nothing to do with the Vietnam War, except I watched it as a kid.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
But I went over there wondering how I would be viewed as an American, and it was a startling kindness that I met. It was extraordinary. Christopher Levesque holds a joint appointment at the University of West Florida Libraries and the UWF Historic Trust. He is an archivist, teaches classes of American history at the University of Western Florida, Pensacola, and the University of Charleston.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Nice to have you on the show. Nice to be here. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Yeah, as I mentioned in the opening there, I am one of those kids who saw all that happening on television. It was the strangest kind of television to watch for all of America, which is really what distinguishes this war for so many on the home front here. Everything that we're talking about is important to understand that context that you just gave us.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Everything we talk about happens in the midst of this. You know, it's a high, high drama is happening both in Vietnam during a war, of course, but also at home. I mean, there's a lot of pressure going on here. We're going to be talking about a specific mission that is in reaction to the Tet Offensive, just part of the operations, of course.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
But it involves a specific unit called Charlie Company, which is part of a larger unit. And we'll get into all of this. So let's take this one step at a time. We're talking about a specific company called Charlie Company, which is part of a platoon, which is part of a brigade and all sorts. It's one of those small units that we have seen in the movies, of course.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
They're on their way to Vietnam in December of 1967, having been trained in Hawaii. And this group of young men arrive there and are camped out in a province called Quang Ngai, right? Right. It's just important to me to understand how this operation gets started for these guys. So you can understand how they are thrown into the deep end, which is typical with these situations, isn't it?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Chris, this is going to be a complicated conversation about military structure in some regard, because we're talking about a group called Charlie Company. But I want the listeners to understand what I learned in prepping for this, that Charlie Company is part of a first battalion organization.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
which is itself part of the 20th Infantry Regiment, which is part of the 11th Infantry Brigade, also part of the 23rd Infantry Division. In this smaller version, which is the company, they are part of five platoons, all led by a guy named Ernest Mad Dog Medina. So that gives you some sense of what's missing from the Vietnam movies and so forth.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
When you are in this war, you are part of an enormous force structure. And I think that audiences that watch those movies don't have a real sense of what that must have felt like, that you were an integral part of a unit that is part of something bigger and bigger and bigger.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
And that is part of the problem with fighting these big wars is that you're sort of out of touch with who you're working for. You really are taking your orders from the officer right there. And he's in that vast chain of command. It's just an interesting context to imagine yourself in, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
So that's part of the camp that they're living in.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
Hi everyone, it's Don. Just jumping in with a gentle warning, the episode which follows contains some very distressing content. November 1970, Fort Benning, Georgia. A convoy of military trucks moves by on the wet pavement. MPs patrol the curb. In the distance, the cadence of marching boots echoes through the air.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
I mean, this is the craziness of this war is that they're thrown into a land that is very unusual environment for your average American to be in. What we're talking about happens over a course of about three months, two and a half months, really, from January of 68 until the middle of March.
American History Hit
Vietnam: The My Lai Massacre
A typical day in their lives, when they were doing their missions anyway, they would have been picked up by the helicopters, taken to a place, dropped off, and told to clear an area or confront the enemy in some regard. That was how the operation was going on, right? What we've seen in the movies.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
I'm Don Wildman. There's a real trap in the study of American history, ours being a legacy involving some dark chapters of persecution and oppression, to characterize those who suffered as fallen pawns in the great American chess game. This reduces them to mere victimhood, a single dimension. And it is important and more truthful to try and see these figures in the fullness of their humanity.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
Speaking of encounters between the Lakota and the American settlers, as I mentioned at the start, Sitting Bull was an icon of resistance against federal control. Why was that? How did that come to pass?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
This is the Treaty of Fort Laramie, which the United States entered into with the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota and another nation, the Arapaho. The treaty was forged on the U.S. side to put an end to the two-year campaign of raids and ambushes along the Bozeman Trail, a shortcut that thousands of white migrants were using to reach the gold mines in the Montana territory.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
The treaty established the so-called Great Sioux Reservation, a large swath of lands west of the Missouri River. It also designated the Black Hills as a, quote, unceded Indian territory, unquote, for the exclusive use of Native peoples, alongside focusing on the so-called integration of Native people into white settler society.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
But in June 1874, General George Custer led an expedition into the Black Hills and Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 So, can you tell me, Ernie, why the Black Hills are so integral to the Native American people?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
The breaking of the Treaty of Fort Laramie ultimately leads to the battle in 1876. You mentioned the Battle of Greasy Grass, otherwise known as the Battle of Little Bighorn at the beginning. So what is the Lakotas role in this battle?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
We are aiming to do this today as we tell the proud story of Sitting Bull, the Lakota chieftain who was central, strategically and spiritually, to the resistance among Native peoples of the American Great Plains against the U.S. government across what is today the northern states of Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas. Sitting Bull was a star, a living legend within his culture and beyond.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
with a story spanning the last half of the 1800s and representing so much of what happened to indigenous peoples as our government laid the groundwork for white settlement across the continent. And doing so, we are in the company of Ernie LaPointe, author of the book Sitting Bull, His Life and Legacy, who also happens to be the great grandson of the man himself.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
Oh gosh, that's definitely a new one. So the colonizers have lost the battle, but they continue to split the Lakota up and move them onto the reservations. Now, your great-grandfather doesn't agree to this. He doesn't surrender. So what happens next?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
It is an honor to meet you again in life, Ernie. Nice to be with you. Thank you.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
You and I met on camera when we were doing a television show about the Battle of Little Bighorn at a place called Dear Medicine Rocks, which is where your great grandfather very famously did the Sundance, which created the vision that he saw about the victory at Bighorn. We spent the day together at this very holy and sacred place, very special day in my life.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
Bevor wir zu seinem Tod kommen, ist es wahr, dass er an der Wild West Show von Buffalo Bill Cody teilgenommen hat?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
But today we're talking about the story of Sitting Bull, but let's start with your relationship with him. Wenn ich sage Großvater, das ist in DNA bestätigt, wie hast du erst gelernt, dass du mit ihm in dieser Weise verbunden bist?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
So Sitting Bull is shot dead in December 1890, but his story lives on, particularly with you. Now, any final words on this subject for us today?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
Incorporate it in who you are. Create who you are. Be perfect in who you are. Ernie LaPointe, besides being Sitting Bull's great grandson, is a Sundancer, a veteran of Vietnam, and the author of Sitting Bull, His Life and Legacy. Thank you, Ernie. It's been great to talk with you again. Listeners, I will see you again soon. Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
By hitting like and follow, you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
So much of indigenous history is made up of oral storytelling and you're carrying on that tradition. You mentioned Lakota language. Can you tell us a little bit about the Lakota people?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
Unglaublich. Also, Sitting Bull wurde in den 1830ern geboren. Wo wurde er geboren und wie kam er von seinem Namen her?
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
Juni 1876. Ein Lakota-Heiliger macht den Sundance in der Rosebud River Valley. Nach dem Fasten tanzt er ständig für zwei Tage und Nächte, ritualistisch 100 Teile von seinem Arm anzubieten, um sich zu schmerzen, um einen höheren spirituellen Raum zu erreichen. Wenn er erwacht, reiht dieser Mann, sitzend, an seine Leute und teilt seine Visionen. Greetings, History Hit listeners. Welcome back.
American History Hit
Who Was Sitting Bull?
So just to jump in here, a coup refers to an act of bravery during battle, bold bravery, usually where a warrior touches a member of the opposing side, usually with a stick, during the conflict. This doesn't harm the enemy except in pride, but demonstrates courage where the warrior has had to come into close contact with his opponent, risking his life.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
Hi everyone, it's Don here. Jumping in to warn you that this episode contains details of mass murder and suicide that may be distressing to some listeners. Please proceed at your own discretion. The Guyanese jungle is dense and tangled. The morning sun cuts through the trees, catching the rising steam from last night's rainfall. It is humid and sweltering hot.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
I'll be back with more from Annie Dowd after this short break.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
There were survivors. Jim Jones Jr. and brother Stephen are in Georgetown visiting compound. As you mentioned before, there was a basketball team there. They receive a radio report from Jonestown essentially saying, we are doing this. We're committing suicide.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
You should kill the defectors in Georgetown and then yourself.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
It's so nefarious, Annie. I mean, it's so creepy how organized this was. It strips it of all the possible spiritual qualities and whatever you might think of that and just gets downright nasty.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
This is more than they are prepared for. This is more than any human being should bear. Hello there. Greetings. Welcome to American History Hit. I'm Don Wildman. Today we are heading back into the story of the People's Temple and Jonestown. Last week, Annie Dowd introduced us to the notorious religious leader, Jim Jones.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
There were a small number of survivors at the site themselves, including one elderly woman who slept through the event, right?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
No one is ever charged for this tragedy criminally, except for Larry Layton, the man who pretended to defect onto the plane, charged for the deaths of the airstrip. Is he still with us or has he passed away?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
And those people who did the shooting at the airstrip, I imagine, are part of those who suicided, right?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
But they could never really know. Right. The complex remained in the jungle, sort of lost to it after a while. They tried to make it, put it, the government again, tried to put it to use in some way.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
It becomes the very definition of a cult in our generation.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
This is as much as you get. But that's why we covered it with such detail. And thank you very much for this. There's so much more to the story than meets the eye because there's all this other, you know, it's all about Jim Jones, of course. And it's fitting that the town is called Jonestown because that's it's all about his ego.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
It's all about his own odyssey that he's on within himself, which he then projects upon his followers. And there we are. You know, they all go the way he goes. So Annie, you write about this. You've studied this for so many years. Where do you land on this story? It's such a depressing story for me, but I imagine that isn't where you're feeling from.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
Author and scholar Annie Dawood has published a book called Paradise Undone. It's a novel, actually, about the tragedy in Jonestown. Thank you so much, Annie. It's been so nice to meet you. Thanks for telling us all about it. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this episode of American History Hit. As you've made it this far, why not like and follow us wherever you get your podcasts?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
We explored how Jones created his church, why so many followed him, and what led these people from Indiana to California to Guyana, South America. If you haven't listened to this episode, I would recommend heading over to it now and then rejoin us later. We'll be right here.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
For those of you ready to go on, you'll remember we left off on the airstrip in Guyana, where members of the People's Temple have shot California Congressman Leo Ryan dead. alongside four others. Confirming that the congressman is dead, the gunman returned to Jonestown. Annie Dowd joins me again to take us through the next 24 hours and the impact of Jonestown to this day.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
Annie, we left off with five dead on the tarmac and Jim Jones proclaiming that it is now time to commit revolutionary suicide. This was not an unprecedented event for them. I mean, obviously the suicide was, but they'd gone through this act several times, right?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
Soldiers from the Guyanese army move carefully through the vegetation, hacking at the undergrowth. They've journeyed here from the nearest town, Port Kaituma, over 10 kilometers away. Now they are on edge, tense, as they approach the site of the Jonestown encampment.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
His quote is this. In spite of all that I've tried, a handful of our people with their lies have made our life impossible. There's no way to detach ourselves from what's happened today. If we can't live in peace, then let's die in peace.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
Boy, right in that nugget, you get the narcissism, the megalomania, you know, the whole list of terms having to do with this cult leader who is seeing this, of course, as someone else has made this happen, not me, when he was the guy that created the whole thing in the first place. Yes. Well, first of all, what is in this? It's not Kool-Aid. It's something else entirely, right?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
After the shootings at the Kaituma airfield on the 18th, these troops have every reason to expect hostile resistance from the settlers. But the further in they go, treading ever so quietly, the more aware they become of the absence of noise. But for the dew drips from the trees, the squelch and crack of their boots on the forest floor, there is only a strange silence.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
So the typical way we recall this is that most of these people would have lined up and just taken a cup of the brew, the Kool-Aid, we called it, and sipped it and gone away and died. It was not as simple as that at all. Tell me about the system that they were following.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
So thus begins this period of how long does it take for them? I suppose he's the last that goes, right?
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
It's hard to believe that there wasn't general panic, but this is the result of having been trained and psychologically prepared for this moment for many of them. But there's a report even that his wife, Jim Jones's wife, Marceline, was screaming that he should not be doing this, right? That there's a lot of struggle going on during this time.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
They've been told nearly a thousand people live here, and yet, nothing, no sound. Not even from the 300 children, who should be shouting, playing, crying for food. There is only an eerie quiet. and then the smell. As the soldiers emerge into the open, they cover their noses as a sickly stench of human rot overtakes them. There is retching, groans. One soldier makes the sign of the cross.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Death of a Cult
Some of them were shipped home. There is now a grave in Oakland that has a lot of bodies there, 400 or so, right?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
As the lost cause unfolds in generations forward, you've got the daughters of the Confederacy. I mean, this new generation of women, you wonder how much were those attitudes formed in the absence of men, you know, these hardened attitudes.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
The looting, grabbing whatever they could get their hands on. Flower, shoes. It was a mess. And things haven't settled down much since. Drunken sailors, wounded soldiers on the mend. Or not. By the way, keep your hand on your wallet. There are pickpockets everywhere. Sure wasn't like this back before the war. All across the South. Makes you wonder if it'll ever come back.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
The South is a huge geographical area. How much of that territory was involved in the war versus left to its own devices?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
And of course they're fighting for the right for states to be the focus of this nation rather than the nation itself. I mean, that's the whole idea of the civil war is to defeat federal power or at least minimize it.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
As the war drags onward, the graph line of fear among the populace just skyrockets. I mean, they're realizing that this is an entire destruction of their society at hand.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Hello and welcome back to American History Hit. I'm your host, Don Wildman. From the 8th of February 1861 until the spring of 1865, 9 million people of the 11 seceded states were ruled from the Virginian State Capitol Building in Richmond. In this second episode of our series on the rebel states, we're leaving the grandiose halls of Richmond behind.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
They move from being sort of naively hoping that this is only going to be a short war and not affect them very much to realizing they're fighting for their survival, for the survival of this society and this system in the most dire circumstance. How much was that felt in real time by the everyday person?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
That's why I'm asking about the awareness throughout the entire South, because so much of this is about perception.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
And so if you are living in an area, which is a lot of the South, where you never saw these burned out farms or you never saw the marching troops, and of course there's no television, there's nothing else except newspapers occasionally telling you that it was real bad up there in Virginia, you wouldn't have the reaction that we think people would naturally have at this point.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
But where it does affect them, where the war is landing, is horrific. And I cannot imagine that the average citizen in this area of the country had any clue what was coming. This was a full-on all-out war and they didn't expect that to happen.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Well, again, it would be only in the newspapers that so many people had read that kind of stuff. And horrifying as it was, it wasn't necessarily affecting them where they were. One thing that is endemic throughout is the starvation crises that come down the road. So there's a huge amount of suffering to be sure among civilians because of access to food.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Instead, veering into the everyday lives of everyday people in the Confederate States. Hallo Aaron, schön, dass du zurück bist. Yeah, thanks for having me again. Okay, so we have 11 seceded states. Population of which was how much?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
The numbers are pretty extraordinary. Hyperinflation makes food just unaffordable in certain areas. Flour, $275 a barrel in Lynchburg, Virginia. That's incredible. That's a huge amount of money back then.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
I want to illustrate the bread riot that you're talking about. I mean, the date is April 2nd, 1863. And these are massive riots with militia called out, orders to open fire. They didn't because the women went home. But these women were armed with axes and clubs and knives, chanting bread or blood. You know, this is a major emergency. And it's this kind of dissent, which is a nice word for it,
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Compare that to 22 million in the Union States. Boy, right there you have a A huge disparity to fight a war with.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
It does not fit into the chivalric ideal that was pursued at the beginning of all of this.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Exactly. It's a be careful what you ask for situation because you've created a crucible, really, of social change by empowering these folks at home simply by the absence of these, you know, white masters. The white men are gone. So therefore, here we go. You know, it happens every war. Things happen on the home front that alter things after the fact.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Es gibt 1,5 Millionen weiße Männer in der Südseite, die auf Wahl- und Militärzeit arbeiten. Das sind nicht viele Menschen, die gegen eine massive Macht im Norden kämpfen.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Das ist einer der großen Unterschiede, ich meine, sicherlich kulturell, aber technologisch sogar, zwischen Norden und Süden an diesem Punkt. Und das passiert überall in der Welt. Die Unterschiede zwischen einem agrarischen und einer industriellen Gesellschaft. Der Norden und der Süden sind auf zwei verschiedenen Straßen.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Das Ideal im Süden ist natürlich die Jeffersonische Republik, die natürlich agrarisch basiert ist. Das ist, wie sie leben wollen. Das ist der Plan, oder?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Yeah, right. Natürlich ist die Entschlossenheit prominent in diesem Plan. Ich meine, es ist eine absolute Nötigkeit, soweit das Plantationssystem geht. Und das ist in ihrer neuen Verfassung inschrieben, richtig?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Alexander Stevens ist der berühmte, der den Grundstück-Gespräch macht, dass alles, worauf wir uns basieren, auf unserer Verständnis der weißen Zufriedenheit basiert.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
I've always wondered this. Was this going to be the name of this country, the Confederate States of America, even if they'd won?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
The Confederate States of America only existed during this war. So we're doing a bit of speculation here, but I want to know how they saw the home front developing after the fact. You know, had they won the war, how was the life in the Confederate States going to be?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Sure. It's interesting to speculate on the development of unions in the South. All sorts of things that happened in the North would have to happen in the South as well. The support for the war effort in general is not as complete as we think of it as being, is it?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
The year is 1864. We're heading right down Main Street, here in Richmond, Virginia. You may have seen this place before, but it is a whole different city now. Richmond's the capital of the Confederacy, and it shows the place has been transformed by the war. We've got soldiers, government officials, all mixing with laborers, come to where the work is, where the munitions are made.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Du kannst sehen, dass... Secession process a bit of a sort of microcosm of what it would be like down the road as far as moderates versus conservatives and the way the CSA would have played out, certainly in its approach to the North, to the United States.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
The Civil War has some little bit of the effect that World War II has on America, where the women are left at home and have to sort of fill in for a lot of the men. That had happened in a big way throughout the Confederacy during the war.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
And it's going to have an effect, you know, had they won the counterfactual. Gee, women are now going to have a bigger role in this society than they ever had before, which is going to fly in the face of all those white men who want to steer, turn the clock back.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Look up the hill ahead. That's the Capitol building, where the state government of Virginia stands shoulder to shoulder with the Confederate Congress. Packed in like sardines, they say. And down there to the left, that's the Tredegar Ironworks on the James River. Those hulking buildings spewing smoke. Hard as it is now, you should be glad you weren't here last year. In April, the protests.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Life In The South
Nichtsdestotrotz die rassistischen Dynamiken. Ich meine, es ist unvorstellbar, natürlich, den Genie hier zurückzubeißen. Aber wenn du es gemacht hast, ich meine, alles hat sich verändert.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Oh, interessant. Wenn ich also draußen stehe, wenn ich als Paläontologe draußen stehe und darüber nachdenke, wie groß diese Bullen sind, wie groß ist die Wand?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
How long does it take before a more peaceful contact has been made? When do things calm down?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
How did they not identify a water source? That's weird.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Hallo, willkommen zu American History Hit, I'm Don Wildman. Last week we heard about the historic journey to a land called Virginia in 1607. How some 100 men set sail from London to build a colony. Their instructions sealed in an envelope, only to be opened upon their arrival. If you haven't listened to that episode, I invite you to do so. We'll be right here after you caught up.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Wow, interessant. Aber sie hätten den Titel verstanden, dass sie in einem Estuarium waren und all das. Richtig.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
I'll be right back after this short break. Meantime, if you'd like us to cover anything specifically, if you have any ideas of subject matter we should be looking at, send us an email at ahh.historyhit.com. We'd love to hear from you.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Sag mir, wie Kapitän John Smith, der wirklich als einen viel mehr sophisticateden Mann erscheint, als die Leute an dem Zeitpunkt dachten, richtig?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
As for today, we rejoin our hundred men on Jamestown Island, about 50 miles up from the Chesapeake on what is now called the James River, as they build upon their new land and a flaw in their grand plan becomes increasingly apparent. These lands, they've been told, are already occupied. So claiming this area won't be as simple as raising a cross or staking a flag.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Yeah. And that vibe certainly is felt among his fellow settlers, but also is felt by the native people who come and meet him, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
We've already mentioned the late arrival of these ships. That's going to affect everything, certainly the growing of crops, getting crops into the ground, which I suppose was the idea, right? That they would get there in the early spring and suddenly in the summer they'd have plenty to eat. But that doesn't really happen that way, does it?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Du hast die Supply Ships erwähnt. Wann sollen sie kommen?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
It will lead to conflict, to bloodshed. eventually to the destruction of a population, a nation that will never be the same again. In this episode I am joined once more by Mark Summers, Educational Director of Youth and Public Programs for Jamestown Rediscovery.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Before, I just want to understand the logistics. By the fall, have they kind of settled into a routine? Because it's going to be a couple of years before anybody goes home, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
From collaboration to suspicion to outright war, we explore the tumultuous relationship between the British and the Poetan, native to this area. Mark Summers, willkommen zurück bei American History Hit.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Right. Peace through strength, I suppose, is the old cliche, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Als wir vorhin über die Jamestown-Kolonie diskutierten, haben sie gerade gelandet, begonnen, Land zu klären, Bäume zu schneiden, zu suchen, wie sie die Aufgabe erreichen, die sie verabschiedet worden sind, weil das eine Firma ist, die übernommen wird, um Geld zu machen. Sie werden einige unerwartete Elemente in dieser neuen Leben, bin ich richtig?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
and how there are long sustained periods of peace, right? The conflict continues, but it will come up and down based on who they're dealing with, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
It's got to be reassuring that there aren't many ships coming and many more men getting off these ships and settling. It's not a growing colony through these years.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
There's a fateful explosion, isn't there, in the fall of 1609. Why was he fired?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
How much education was done for these new settlers back home? How much did they know about these cultures?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
They had already been planting tobacco, obviously. I mean, that's where the English learned it from. Had they been growing it on a large scale? Did they see what the English were doing with it and understood the threat?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
And this mercantile leap forward, we can chalk up to the marriage with Poconhas. It was that peace that came in because of her and John Rolfe marrying that allowed this new business to take hold over time, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Natürlich. Aber dieser neue Chef wird aufstehen. Eine neue Wave von Resistenz wird um 1622 stattfinden. Also gab es diese friedliche, fast zehn Jahre, acht Jahre zumindest, Zeit, dank von Pocahontas und Rolf und anderen Events auch, die für das Wachstum von Tabak eine Art Entzündung eines neuen Geschäftsmodells ermöglicht haben. Und dann sind wir weg.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
An diesem Punkt startet Opechencanu einen Angriff.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Und das initiiert einen Zeitraum des Krieges von zehn Jahren, richtig?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Aber es ist wichtig zu erinnern, dass das Hintergrund für das ist ein England, das nicht gut ist, du weißt, zivil. Es ist in der Mitte von Kriegen. Der Zivilkriegsperiode von England geht an dieser Zeit.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017 Dagegen haben sie zuerst Landfall auf dem Cape geplant. Dann sind sie in den Inland eingestiegen und haben 50 Meilen über einen breiten, willkommenen Treibhaus besucht. Einen, der einen tiefen Kanal bietet, mit dem sie ihre Pferde besitzen können.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
There's another big attack, 1644. Another 300 to 400 people killed. Out of, at that point, 800 settlers.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Wow. So at that point, when Opechancanoo dies, what then happens? Is there a brokered peace? Is it really official that way? Or does just things keep going?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
What is the relationship between Jamestown and, say, the Massachusetts Bay Colony and the other English settlements?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Sie befinden sich direkt in der Mitte einer großen Gesellschaft, richtig?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
And right in the middle, there's the Dutch New Netherland right there.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Es ist der Erfolg, besonders der Tabak, der andere Kolonisten ermöglicht, zu sagen, hey, wir können etwas tun. In den Deutschen ist es natürlich Furs und solche Dinge. Aber die Idee ist, dass sie das tun können und Geld machen können. Also für 30 Jahre oder so sind Dinge gesammelt, Lande sind verdividet, Städte sind angefangen, ich schätze. Wir haben was als Bacon's Rebellion 1676 genannt.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Unglaublich, wie der Name Bacon so wichtig war.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
But at heart it's a class warfare, is it not?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Wow, interessant. Also was ist der Aufschlag dieser Zeit? Sie sagen, eine völlig neue Art von Regierung wird stattfinden.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Also ist es wirklich der englische Zivilkrieg, der die Grundlagen des Pflanzensystems im Süden erzeugt. Tobak ist zu Beginn, aber dann wird das von Kotten verwendet und da geht es.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Ich habe einfach ein großes Stück des Chigsaw-Puzzles in dort und habe gesagt, wow, da habe ich den Himmel gemacht. Erzähl uns, wo es für die Native American Tribes landet, aber zu diesem Punkt, weil wir so viel über Poeten gesprochen haben.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Had there originally been an expectation that the native, the indigenous populations would become the labor force for the expansion of this white kingdom that was going to be planted here?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
But it's the resistance of those tribes that prevents this from happening.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
That's what I'm saying. The door is open for the need for labor. And that's all been established down in the Caribbean. So that's brought up. And suddenly we have the real building blocks of what becomes the 18th and 19th century.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Mark, das ist so erstaunlich. Ich schreibe die Noten, die ich hier mache, weil das ist, warum wir auf diesem Thema nachdenken, weil Jamestown so fundamental ist für das Bilden dieses Landes. Wir sind nicht mal am Punkt, dass es das Anfang von Williamsburg wird und all das. Das kommt in ein paar neuen Episoden, die wir nächsten Tag machen. Aber das ist, wie wichtig das ist.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Was wir alle als die Pocahontas-Legende denken, ist tatsächlich ein unglaublich wichtiger Punkt. Thank you so much. Can you hear me sputtering? I'm so excited about this.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Well, you're talking to a guy whose father dragged him down there when he was 10 years old, and I walked around, I got on the ship, and these sort of infantile memories are all I have of Jamestown. Of course, I was raised in New Jersey, that's why.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
But now, here I am, late in life, finding out that without Jamestown and an education about it, you really don't understand how America really got started.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Vielen Dank, Mark. Mark Summers ist der Bildungsdirektor der Jugend- und öffentlichen Programme für Jamestown Rediscovery. Was ist Jamestown Rediscovery, Mark?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Es ist also eine lustige Partei. Es ist ein gigantischer Tag, wenn man einen Tag dort verbracht hat, weil es so viel zu sehen gibt in diesem Ort, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Klar, ja. Der Name Palatin kommt tatsächlich von einem Einzelnen, von einem Chef.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Wie würden sie sich in der Höhe von, sagen wir, den Algonquien im Norden vergleichen? Ich meine, das war eine sehr breite Gruppe von Menschen und eine sehr entwickeltes Gesellschaft.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Well, but full of resources and also, you know, temperate zone etc. It would have been very envied, I imagine, throughout the land.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
They have dealt with threats in the past from their own land. Now these folks come across the ocean. What's that first meeting like?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
This has always confused me, because any human being, especially someone who is equipped for war, who walks onto someone else's land, understands the dynamics at hand. It's not like, oh, they're not Christian, therefore we own this place. It's not as simple as that. So that has always confused me. The lack of sophistication in approaching this situation.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Lawrence of Arabia. Yes, right, right, this sort of sense. That's what I mean. It's come down to us as a stereotype.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Suchend für eine passende Ankerung, haben sie sich für eine kleine Peninsula ausgewählt, die sich mit einer breiten Landbrücke verbindet. Hier, wie sie glaubten, könnten sie sich befinden. Hier könnten sie sich erweitern und wachsen. Hier könnten sie eine starke Verteidigung gegen die Angriffsschüsse bauen, besonders von Spanien nach Süden.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
And this is the important thing to keep in mind. This is a job they're doing. This is something they've been hired to do. This is a commercial endeavor, first and foremost.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Sind da Schelter gebaut, um diese Menschen zu leben?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Es gibt so einen interessanten Faktor in diesen Akkorden, den ich nicht wirklich wusste, bevor ich diese Präparation gemacht habe. Durch diese Periode ist eine massive Migration nach Norden nach Süden, ermutigt von dem, was in den Akkorden war, von 300 Tagen der Freude. Es war eigentlich in Quotationen, glaube ich. Yeah. The trouble is that in this migration, a lot of insurgents moved with them.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
It was part of, it became part of a plan upon, by the North Vietnamese. They kind of planted sleeper cells all around the South. Yeah, that's true.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ihre langgepumpten Waffen sind Richtung Stadtzentrum und dem Präsidentenpalast. Am Mittwoch wird Saigon fallen. The Vietnam War will finally be over. Greetings friends, this is American History Hit and I'm Don Wildman. Es wird oft gesagt, dass die Krieg in Vietnam, das war, als die Vereinigten Staaten zuerst militärisch übersteppten, die Superkraft in eine zivilische Kriegspolitik zu stecken.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
There was like a hundred thousand people moving, as I understand it. Something like that, right? Yeah. Währenddessen konnte die Führung von Nord und Süd natürlich nicht anders sein. Du hast die Katholiken erwähnt. Es ist ein faszinierender Blick auf das ganze Ding. Du hattest die französische Kolonisierung, die natürlich die Katholiken war. Sie brachten den Katholizismus nach Asien.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Und viele Menschen, die unter diesen imperialen Regeln von Vietnam arbeiteten, hatten den Katholizismus als ihre Religion adoptiert. Das war auch kontroversial in Vietnam, was so ein buddhistisches Land war. You're absolutely right.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Right. Up north you have Ho Chi Minh, Uncle Ho, beloved by his people, leads the north for decades until he dies in 1969. Fascinating man. In the south there are leftovers of that old imperial rule, which had accommodated French colonialism. Ngo Dinh Diem wird dann Präsident des Süden Vietnames. Politisch sehr schrecklich, diese neue Nation.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Die Leute haben keine Verständnis dafür, was an der Stelle ist. Das ist Teil des Problems, oder?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ja, wir haben erwähnt, von woher man kämpft. Ich meine, eine antikommunistische Stille kann stark sein, weil die Menschen in Angst leben, aber man handelt sich um zu viele Negativen und das beginnt zu werden, du weißt, erodiert von seiner eigenen, von seiner eigenen Selbst, diese Art von Position.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
1961 beginnen wir mit einer puren Vorsorgerolle zu einer direkten militärischen Koordination mit Südafrika. Warum mussten wir eine stärkere, größere Rolle an diesem Punkt nehmen? Wurden sie auf dem Boden verloren?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
It's important to keep in mind the context. There's been a revolution in Cuba, right off our shores. All of that is going on. Communism is on the march, it seems. So Kennedy comes in, there's an off-quoted press conference of his in March 61, I believe it is, where he basically declares his selection. You know, we're selecting Vietnam as an important place to prove that we will stand up to this.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
It's a very conscious political statement of his. Wenn er Präsident wird, schickt er, wie du sagst, 4.000 US-Armee-Spezialwaffen, um südvietnamesische Soldaten zu trainieren. Das ist also der nächste Schritt. Sie entwerfen das sogenannte Strategie-Hamlet-Programm, um vietnamesische Flüchtlinge in verdächtige Flüchtlinge zu relocieren. Ich möchte, dass du mir das bitte erklärst.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Und somit sie von der Viet Cong isolieren. Es ist ein ganz großes Programm. Es fehlt.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Parallel mit Korea, ein paar Jahre früher. Aber als die 1954-Geneva-Akkorde die politische Division von Vietnam am 17. Parallel setzte, and circumstances escalated into guerrilla warfare waged by communist forces of the North against the Republic of Vietnam in the South, the United States intervened.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
The South, remember, is bucolic, gorgeous countryside, you know, beautiful winding rivers, agrarian-based economy at the time for sure. whereas the north is where the French colonial capital was and all that stuff was happening up there. So suddenly you're having this outside force come in and sort of reshape the countryside in a kind of bizarre fashion. That's a very interesting word.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Then comes the assassination of Diem and his brother, just three weeks before Kennedy is killed in November. Here are the Americans projecting power and their own president is assassinated at home. Had to be earth-shaking for them.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
First there was Truman, then President Eisenhower, then Kennedy, then Johnson, committed ever-growing numbers of American advisors and increasing military support and then troops to aggressively resist the communist threat across Southeast Asia, all supported by China and the Soviet Union.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Boy, this is the time of the Buddhist monks self-immolating these famous images that everyone sees, which is also important to point out. We are seeing the images. I mean, this is a new time for American journalism. And Americans are seeing all this unfold on television for the first time. And this becomes an ever escalating factor in American life right into the later 60s.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
I remind you, we are building a framework here of the major turning points of Vietnam. And what we've just done is flashback to what came before, leading up to the Gulf of Tonkin incident. When we come back, we will take events from that point onward. I'll be back with more American history after this short break.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
If Korea had been Act I, then Vietnam was Act II, and the Americans intended to be front and center in this drama, carrying it forth to a finale of freedom and democracy. Of course, an awful lot has happened in the 60 years since Vietnam, but to a startling degree, it still matters very much.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
So at that point, we're back where we started in this show. 1964, Johnson has taken over because of Kennedy's assassination, obviously. And at that point, how is Johnson going to produce results? I imagine because of his personality, a lot faster than he's seen before. Exactly.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
It brings to mind that Neil Sheehan book. Yeah, Bright Shining Lie. Yeah, Bright Shining Lie. Amazing portrayal of that early, early 60s period through the eyes of one particular advisor who saw a kind of way of fighting this war that we were not going to fight. Yeah. And that's the tipping point that we're on.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Johnson sort of takes that whole thing over and between 65 and 67 turns it into essentially a full-scale war. In those years of 65-67, Free Tet Offensive, it was going fairly as predicted. Is that fair to say?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
American influence in global events, militarily certainly, is still rooted in the painful lessons of that conflict, in the choices we made to involve our nation in the unfolding fate of another. You need objective clarity on this. You need to understand the framework. And we have just the man to help.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
I mean, you basically have military leadership who sort of carry over from a lot of them, the higher generals anyway, carry over from World War II, that mindset of fighting a war of invincible strength in the face of your enemy, coupled with this new idea of how to fight a war epitomized by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, this data-driven whole approach to the war as micromanaged and so forth.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
This sort of inner conflict is at hand. die Johnson betrachtet, die alles von der Kennedy-Administration übernommen wurde.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
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American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Mark Atwood Lawrence has been a real friend of the podcast, guested on a number of episodes even very recently. He is a professor of history, distinguished fellow at the Robert S. Strauss Center for International Security and Law and a fellow at the Clements Center for National Security at the University of Texas at Austin.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020 Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
and author of The Vietnam War, A Concise International History, as well as Assuming the Burden, Europe and the American Commitment to War in Vietnam. Professor Lawrence, Mark, welcome back. Thanks so much, Don. It's great to be with you. Complicated events lead up to American involvement in Vietnam. We'll talk about them in a moment.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
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American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
French capitulation, the division of North and South, as mentioned. Check out Episode 108 on the origins of the Vietnam War we recorded some time ago. In den 1950er-Jahren sind die Amerikaner hinter den Szenen, als die Franzosen versuchen, die Macht, die sie von den Japanerinnen verloren haben, zu erneuern. Sie wurden 1954 gefeuert, und das ist, als wir langsam in Korea steigen.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ein großer Faktor ist, dass Korea nicht so gut war, gegen den antikommunistischen Kampf auf diesem Grund. Wie fühlen die Amerikaner sich über noch einen Fouret in Asien?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Yeah, I think that's right.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Es ist auch sehr schmerzhaft, wenn man die schrecklichen Events, die du bereits gesprochen hast, mit Kambodscha und so weiter betrachtet. Genau.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
You're still writing about it. Do you think that this will ever be absorbed and understood in a kind of organic fashion?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ja, ein 25-jähriges Engagement in Afghanistan ist Beweise dafür, dass es immer noch sehr schwierig ist, es herauszufinden. Genau. Abhängig von deinem Feind. Ich denke, der wichtige Element für Vietnam, besonders für die heutigen Generationen, ist, dass man das Framework für das, was passiert ist, versteht. Sonst verlierst du die Schritte, die wir genommen haben.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Es gibt eine Intimität, die Amerikaner mit Vietnam haben, die sie nicht mit anderen Kriegen haben, um die öffentliche Frage zu sprechen. Durch die Medien, durch die Filme und zu dem Zeitpunkt durch die TV. Vielen Dank, Marc. Es war mir ein Vergnügen, mit dir zu sprechen.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Marc Atwood Lawrence ist der Autor eines wichtigen Buches namens The Vietnam War, A Concise International History, das 2008 veröffentlicht wurde. Ich glaube, mehr recently, Assuming the Burden, Europe and the American Commitment to War in Vietnam. If you like the way he clearly explains things, here, try his books. He professes History at the University of Texas in Austin.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
And you're working on a new book, I understand, about the 1976 American election, right?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Thanks so much, Don. I appreciate it. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
By hitting like and follow you help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American History Hit with me, Don Wildman. So grateful for your support.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Exactly. This is really officially Cold War now. Yeah. Und das wird von Kennedy und dem Rest auch beurteilt. Es ist 1964, das ist der größte erste Wendepunkt für die amerikanische Krieg in Vietnam. Der Gulf of Tonkin-Inzidenz in den frühen Tagen der Johnson-Administration. Wir werden ein bisschen rüberfliegen. Wir kommen in einem Moment zurück zu den Franzosen.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Aber lasst uns dieses Land zuerst beurteilen. Die US-Schiffe wurden verurteilt von den Nordvietnamesen. Kannst du beschreiben, was im Gulf of Tonkin passiert ist?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Yeah, it would be defined later as a false flag situation. But you're saying that it was kind of an event that then became exploited. It was sort of an opportunity exploited instead of sort of planned that way.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Der Grund, warum es so wichtig ist, ist, dass es direkt zu der 1965-Eskalation führt. Die Bemühungen der Kampfgruppen, anstatt von Vorsitzenden, die jahrelang da waren, sogar eine Dekade oder mehr. Es wird oft als die Anfang der Kriege für die USA betrachtet.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Yeah, it's about a year later, February 13th, 1965, from the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Operation Rolling Thunder is authorized. But I want to ask you, it was not by Congress. This is not a declaration of war as we formally define it. Why not? Why was that important?
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Aber Korea war auch nicht eine deklarierte Krieg. Richtig, ja. Ich meine, die Deklaration der Krieg ist auch ein legales Gesetz, richtig? Ich meine, es betrifft eine Menge Territorium, sobald man in der Krieg ist. Ja.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ja. I remember how interesting and strange it was when we declared war on terrorism. But that was more important than it sounded at the time. It sounded like a sort of news item, but it was really a legal declaration that we were taking it to that level. This also unleashes sustained bombing in North Vietnam. There are measures taken.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
April 30th, 1975, 50 Jahre vor diesem Monat. Trotz fast zwei Jahrzehnten der Krieg, ist Saigon, die Städte Südvietnams, noch ziemlich festgehalten. Es gab die möglichen Raketen, und Restaurants wurden gebombt. Es gab TET, natürlich, im Jahr 1968, insbesondere die Angriff auf die US-Embassie. Für all das hat die Stadt nicht erlebt, wie man es in einer besiegten Nation erwarten könnte.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
March 8th, a month after the initial combat troops are sent, two marine battalions, 3,500 troops go offshore to protect the airfields. They are still ordered to shoot only if shot at. You know, there's a sort of attitude about this that's different than it becomes. April 3rd, 1965, two additional battalions, air squadrons, logistics staff, full-scale offensive operations by mid-April.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Boy, does this happen quick. It's a couple months. They must have had that, you know, bullet in the chamber for a while there.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
By April, again, there are 200,000 troops stationed in Vietnam. And at that point, we're hightailing towards Hueys and B-52s down the road. It is game on at that point, 1965. So let's back up, as I say, to the events prior to this point, this major turning point, to those which developed towards this. And I'm talking about the French years.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
And this is what came to pass later on, 1971, when the Pentagon Papers came out. And it was revealed that the United States... had already been deeply involved in Vietnam for the entire decade of the, you know, since Truman, really. Yeah. All part of his Truman Doctrine.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
It starts, for our purposes, with the Geneva Accords in 1954, which is because of the French defeat at the hands of the North Vietnamese, that famous battle, and they're forced to withdraw as a colonizing nation, leaving behind them, according to these accords, a divided Vietnam, North and South. That's what's called the 17th Parallel.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
November 1955, Eisenhower deploys Military Assistance Advisory Group. What a name. To train the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. Eisenhower. Now, he knows how to wage war. What an interesting tightrope to walk for this guy.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
I've always wondered how at this point he's being influenced by the Dulles Brothers. You know, this whole new Cold War mentality, which is about the CIA and these instruments of power that didn't exist during World War II.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
But that's about to change. Gestern haben die US-Helikopter die amerikanische Embassy auf Thuong Nhat Boulevard umgekehrt, auf dem Tower-Ruf zu landen, um so viele wie möglich zu versuchen und zu evakuieren. Aber so viele mehr wurden in den chaotischen Träumen hinterlassen, die auf den geschlossenen Komponenten dringen. Heute, sehr bald, werden die nordvietnamesischen Tanks in die Stadt rollen.
American History Hit
Vietnam War: Turning Points
Ja, er wusste, dass man eine sehr starke Position braucht, um in irgendeiner Art von Krieg zu kämpfen. Und wir hatten das sicherlich auch in der Zweiten Weltkrieg. Wir hatten es nicht, wie er es definiert hat, in den 50er-Jahren. In der Köln-Krieg war es mehr darum, ein System zu kämpfen, anstatt eines bestimmten Feindes. I'll be back with more American History after this short break.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
And therein lies the dilemma. So why didn't they is this historical question. And the counterfactuals can fly. If they did take Washington, all of the above would have happened. Those border states would have collapsed. The whole thing would have collapsed. England comes into the play, right? Yeah. Und yet therein lies the dilemma.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
I mean, why wouldn't they, if they had such eagerness and such a mission in mind, take Washington, D.C.? The counterfactuals fly from there. You know, so many circumstances would have been different.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Ja, genau. Also gehen wir durch die Events, was die echte Antwort ist. Lincoln ruft die Norden, um Truppen sofort zu senden, um dieses Kapital zu verteidigen. Was ist die Antwort und wer antwortet? Die Antwort ist überwältigend im Norden. Ich meine, es ist überwältigend auf beiden Seiten.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
I saw something else that you had recorded, another interview, and you mentioned that New York was one of the most top military forces in the world at the time. That surprised me.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
It's because of the industrialization of the country, really, you end up with these workers, you know, piling into these cities. And many of those militias are about keeping control of those workplaces, aren't they? I mean, to be on call for those factory owners and so forth. And that becomes more and more urgent as we move into the Gilded Age and beyond. Unions und so weiter.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Das ist eine faszinierende Unterschiede. Aber New York, natürlich, hätte den meisten bereit zu gehen Platz, weil sie die größte Arbeitspopulation hat. Es gibt eine unvorhergene Wave von Patriotismus in dieser Zeit, was interessant ist, weil es politisch eine sehr, sehr schmerzhafte Zeit in Amerika war, natürlich.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
through the 1850s, this whole late antebellum period, has moments like the Dred Scott decision, the Missouri Crown Prize has been trashed. It's all kinds of things are happening politically that are getting argued out in the papers and in debate societies and so forth. Suddenly Sumter is attacked and it is replaced with this wave of patriotism, as you say, right?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
You march us methodically through these days in the book. Let's point out a few interesting ones. April 17th, Virginia secedes. This was a major moment. Not just... Strategisch, aber auch spirituell für dieses Land. Virginia ist, wo es alles begann. Du weißt, wenn du über George Washington und so weiter sprichst, für das Staat zu gehen, ist ein gigantischer Blut auf die nationale Identität.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Es ist auch strategisch direkt über den Potomac-River. Ich meine, an diesem Punkt steht eine sehr kleine Menge Wasser in der Richtung dieses Attacks. Sprich über diesen Tag speziell.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Nee, wir sind da kein... Nee, paddeln wir da drin rum oder was?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Yeah, I mean, it is happening. April 18th, Washington is severed from the north, telegraph lines are cut, railways are impassable, six bridges are destroyed, two railways are cut off. I mean, for a week, Washington is isolated, correct?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Good day all, I'm Don Wildman and you've clicked through to American History Hit. We drop new episodes Monday and Thursday. Unless you're a subscriber, then you'll get us a day early with zero ads. Go to historyhit.com.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Well, never mind that. Getting troops there is now nearly impossible.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Let's talk about the Baltimore riot. By 18th and 19th of April, these troops are trying to get to Baltimore from New York, from Massachusetts and so forth. But the railways have become very, very difficult, obviously, for those reasons. Something happens in Baltimore that is very inflamed. I mean, there's a huge riot having to do with the troops going through, and that's really important.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
I just want to say, this is one of the pressures that Lincoln is carrying into office. He realizes that there are these states like Maryland, who are the border states, Kentucky, all these border states along the way. If he loses them, he loses the war in his mind. That's the grand strategy.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
And you see why it's so difficult for him, because even at this moment, as troops are trying to get through to the nation's capital to save it, there's a lot of people in Baltimore who are trying to stop him.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
On April 12, 1861, Confederate artillery let loose on Fort Sumter in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina, instigating a Confederate takeover of a federal installation, thus making war with the United States of America inevitable. But 34 hours later, lacking adequate firepower, munitions and supplies, Sumter's commander, Major Robert Anderson, surrendered.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Yeah, exactly. I mean, let's talk about that. You're talking about the troops are on these trains and suddenly there are throngs of Baltimoreans. Is that what you call them? All pressing in from both sides. This is a highly dangerous moment.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Now we've covered the Battle of Fort Sumter in a previous episode, number 183 for anyone keeping track. So we won't focus on those events now, but rather on the fateful weeks that followed.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Yeah, this is a frightening episode and largely forgotten by Americans that this is the, these are the conditions we're dealing with. This is the kind of strife that is even within a so-called northern state when the time comes. Right. But somehow the 1st New York Regiment, the 7th Regiment, gets through on April 25th. And this is the bookend of your book.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
They're the main force that needs to get there. How do they arrive in Washington?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Hallo ihr Mäuse, wir sind Janni und Alina vom Podcast Wine Wednesday.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
The book 12 Days, How the Union Nearly Lost Washington in the First Days of the Civil War, addresses this critical and confusing period and was authored by our guest today, journalist and business executive Tony Silber. Welcome, Tony. Nice to have you on the show. Thanks, Tom. Glad to be here. I'm excited. I have always wondered about this.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
If they had not pulled this off, I mean, we've just touched on it, but I really want to lay this out. If the Confederates take Washington D.C., Maryland secedes. The other border states probably don't stick with it. British realize that the Confederates are for real. They end up supporting the Confederates as an important trade partner for them. It is utter demoralization for the North.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
I mean, we're not even in the war yet. And this moment would have destroyed the whole effort. Fair to say that, right?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
casual feeling of safety. It's extraordinary how this history, how often in the history we are at this point. In summary, it will be a couple of months, as it turns out, before Union troops and the Confederates finally do meet on the field at the first battle of Bullrung, Manassas. And it turns out to be a disaster for the federal troops.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
That's how badly organized they would have been after Sumter, let alone, you know, three months later, when they finally meet in an official battle. There's so much luck involved in this war, so much strange fate. It's a very interesting angle on it all, isn't it?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
In the days immediately following the surrender of Sumter, it would have seemed so obvious that the southern forces marched right into Washington, take the place over. D.C. is a southern city. It is a slave-holding city at the time. It was made out of Virginia and Maryland. Why did that not happen? Was it so well defended?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Interesting. There you go. That's the perfect closing. Tony Silber is the author of 12 Days, How the Union Nearly Lost Washington in the First Days of the Civil War. He's also president of Long Hill Media, involved in media branding, a big career. Thank you so much, Tony, for joining us. Really appreciate it. Don, it was a pleasure. Thank you. Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Hallo ihr Mäuse, wir sind Janni und Alina vom Podcast Wine Wednesday.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Nee, wir sind da kein... Nee, paddeln wir da drin rum oder was?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Das Geile ist, wir dürfen auf der Bühne an euch Zuschauer und Zuschauerinnen einen 800-Euro-Voucher für Backmarket verlosen. Es lohnt sich also nicht nur, wegen unseren schönen Gesichtern zu kommen.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
We'll drill down to the idea of that as we go here, but let's work our way towards it. The idea of a US military was so fundamentally different in those days. I mean, we didn't really have a standing army to speak of, little navy. The US relied, as you suggest there, on state and local militia. But hadn't Lincoln and Buchanan before him bulked up?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
I mean, didn't they anticipate the need for troops? Short answer is no.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Yeah, and what about the Confederates? I mean, clearly they were readying for major action.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Das Geile ist, wir dürfen auf der Bühne an euch Zuschauer und Zuschauerinnen einen 800 Euro Voucher für Backmarket verlosen. Es lohnt sich also nicht nur wegen unseren schönen Gesichtern zu kommen. Tickets gibt es unter www.kinoamolympiasee.de
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Ja, genau. That was the difference between the United States then and now. A lot of people feel the need to go back to that these days. But that's an important part of this conversation that comes up a lot. I imagine part of the challenge for the federal government at that time is that D.C. is really such a transient town.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
I mean, it's really purely a government center, not really a concentrated density like Baltimore or Philadelphia. All that permanent population comes after the Civil War and onward. How did you research what the city was like then? I mean, there weren't the kinds of records that you would need, I would think.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Your title, 12 Days, I mean, does that refer to the fear that people were having that after Sumter the attack was coming? Were DC people fearful of that?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Was it as simple as people were packing up their wagons and their carriages and heading out of town? Were people fleeing the city?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
It's the spring of 1861 here in Washington, D.C., still a developing metropolis. Though Pierre L'Enfant's grand design of wide avenues and iconic landmarks has been laid out, much of the National Mall remains a messy patchwork of muddy fields, scattered trees and grazing livestock.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Also, wenn die Konfederaniemen nicht einen Angriffsplan in der Lage hatten, post Sumter, was war ihr Plan sofort danach?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Hallo ihr Mäuse, wir sind Janni und Alina vom Podcast Wine Wednesday.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Nee, wir sind da kein... Nee, paddeln wir da drin rum oder was?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Das Geile ist, wir dürfen auf der Bühne an euch Zuschauer und Zuschauerinnen einen 800 Euro Voucher für Backmarket verlosen. Es lohnt sich also nicht nur wegen unseren schönen Gesichtern zu kommen.
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
Jefferson Davis hat eine berühmte Quote als Präsident der Konferenz. All we want is to be left alone. I don't remember when that quote was said. Was it in the aftermath of Sumter?
American History Hit
The First 12 Days of the Civil War
The Capitol building remains unfinished, its dome still encased in scaffolding, while the streets linking it to the executive mansion are rough, uneven and dimly lit at night. The erection of the magnificent obelisk honoring George Washington, its cornerstone laid 13 years earlier in 1848, has stalled due to lack of funding. It won't be finished until 1879. Nonetheless, D.C.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Birth of Peoples Temple
There's also news coverage that starts to happen, right? I mean, people start snooping around about this.
American History Hit
Jonestown: The Birth of Peoples Temple
Endlich wieder Coca-Cola Gläser bei McDonald's. Hol dir die ikonische 20 Jahre Edition in 5 exklusiven Farben und Designs für deine Sammlung. Jetzt gratis zum MacMenü. Nur in teilnehmenden Restaurants, nicht zum MacMenü Small. Solange der Vorrat reicht.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
In wider scholarship, is it acknowledged that this gang of people who had done this, who were intellectuals, who were very smart people, were recognizing this was an economic necessity versus a moral one? I mean, were there thoughts to that effect, writing this constitution?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
But at this time, there are yet no front steps or legislative wings. Practically speaking, the space is too small even for its designed purpose. Never mind now, the Virginia General Assembly will be sharing the structure with the first Confederate States Congress, which will use the Senate Chamber to debate the ongoing dreadful issues of slavery, secession and war.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
It's both clarifying to understand that this was really discussed and really negotiated, but it's also incredibly depressing that smart people sat around and discussed this to such lengths and yet didn't come up with the most sensible issue, which is, you know, this is wrong. We can't do it anymore. But anyway. The initial structure is created as a one-year tryout period, am I right?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
But the idea was that there was no factions, right? They didn't want to have any kind of arguments between themselves. How unrealistic is that?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Born in 1808, son of a revolutionary war soldier, very important, these guys were second generations from the founders. Youngest of ten children, bunch of older brothers, goes to West Point thanks to one of those brothers in 1824. Ends up not doing too well at that place because of his kind of problem with authority, doesn't it?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Yes, that's the way to end up 23rd out of your class of 33. Let's not ignore the fact he's named Jefferson. I mean, this is no coincidence. You know, the family is proud of being among the founding class.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Er wurde nach West Point, Michigan Forts, Crawford und Winnebago angemeldet. Er spielt eine kleine Rolle in der Blackhawk-Wiege. Er ist dann in 1835 ein Kottenplanter geworden, der versucht wurde, in der Subordination zu sein, für die er verabschiedet wurde. Er bekommt 800 Äcker, die er als Breyerfield-Plantation nennt. Und natürlich würden dort geschlossene Arbeiter sein. Er beginnt mit 23.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Greetings all, Don Wildman here and this is American History Hip. Welcome back. It's 1861. Steam now powers American industry and transportation as locomotives pull train cars to the Mississippi and just beyond. Ships can now be built to the enormous dimensions of the USS Kirsich. 200 feet bow to stern.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Endlich, bei 1860, wird er legal über 100 besitzen. Einer der wichtigsten Faktoren in seinem Leben ist, dass er eine große Rolle in der mexikanischen-amerikanischen Krieg spielt. Er ist wirklich da.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
The takeaway really is important, how deeply enmeshed Jefferson Davis was in the founding of America by his family story and then by the service to the nation through the military. I mean, he was really deep in. So it's so strangely ironic that this man should end up being the president of the Confederacy. It's a weird turn of events.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Er heiratet, seine Frau stirbt früh danach und nach einem sehr kurzen Zeitraum heiratet er später wieder. zu einer 18 Jahre jüngeren Frau, 1845, das passiert. Er wird dann von dieser Kottenplanter-Karriere in der Politik involviert, lokal, dann regionell. Er hat die Wahl gegen die US-Haus der Repräsentanten in 1845 gewonnen, er hat den 29. Kongress gegründet.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Er ist von Definition ein jacksonischer Demokrat, Opposition zur föderalen Macht, zur Nationalbank, er wählt nach Oregon, also da ist Manifest Destiny drin, He does fight that war with Mexico during this time he spends in Congress. He eventually leaves the army to become a U.S. Senator for Mississippi, 1847.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Becomes involved with the issue of Western expansion, which was everything to these guys at the time, wasn't it?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
For the last two decades, folks have been communicating by telegraph, but just three years ago, the first successful transatlantic cable was sent between Europe and North America. In medicine, ether and chloroform are now being used for patients under the knife, but germ theory is not yet widely accepted.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Ja, sicher. Es ist keine Überraschung, dass Jefferson Davis als Präsident wurde, als er auch, naja, er versteht diese westwächere Erweiterung von der Kämpfe in der mexikanischen-amerikanischen Krieg. Schau, was wir haben, du weißt, als Resultat dieses Krieges. Ein Drittel des Landes existiert jetzt im Westen. That's the future of America.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
And he's one of those first people who's really dealing with that viscerally. March 1853, he becomes Secretary of War in the Pierce administration. We're still before the Civil War here. And therefore he is now operating in the White House. He understands how that whole thing is set up. How is he eventually chosen to be the president? Where does he come from in that discussion?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
What was the committee of 13? What does that refer to?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Elijah Otis hat sein Brake-System für Elevatorien patentiert, um hohe Höhen zu machen, eine fähige Realität, während amerikanische Männer sehr starken Collars an ihren Schirmen verbinden und die am faszinierendsten Frauen in Hourglass-Dressen sind, die von Korsetten verabschiedet sind. All the rage. In der Mitte von allem ist Abraham Lincoln der neu inaugurierte Präsident der Vereinigten Staaten.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Interesting. So Davis really gets elected, as you say, because he is a moderate. He really is very opposed to this, even as South Carolina withdraws, isn't he?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
But another American president has been inaugurated as well. But this one, down in the seditious South, in blatant rebellion against the nation he once fought for and served. Jefferson Davis, the first and only president of the seceded Confederate States of America. Who was this man? And how did he rise to power?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
How has this new American nation, the CSA, amputated itself from its former body politic to be ruled differently? But how differently will that really be? We have Professor Aaron Sheehan-Dean to explain it all today. He is the Fred C. Frey Professor of History and Department Chair at Louisiana State University. Go Tigers!
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
has authored and edited so many publications, but particular to our conversation today, a companion to the U.S. Civil War, as well as the Civil War, the final year told by those who lived it. Guten Tag, Professor Shandeen. Schön, dich wiederzubekommen. Du warst auf einem vorherigen Podcast von uns, also lange her. Ich war es.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
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American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Es ist schön, dich wiederzusehen und ich bin froh, heute wieder hier zu sein. Danke. Lass uns mit dem Prozess der Verabschiedung beginnen. Sehr basic stuff here. What happens in several phases through the late part of 1860 and into 1861. We have eventually 11 states seceding. I'll read the list.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
It's a distasteful idea to me anyway to consider, but it's interesting to think about the fact that this is only a wartime administration. Anyone who had high hopes for the CSA then or now would say it never had the chance to be a real governing thing. It was only a wartime thing.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
How did the public feel about Jefferson Davis?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina. It's the SEC basically. The border states of Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware all declare their neutrality. Und das wird ein leckeres Balance-Akt für Lincoln sein, sie in der Union zu behalten. Am 20. Dezember 1860 kippt Süd-Karolina alles zuerst ab.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Ja, das ist eine gute Idee, die du mir gegeben hast, Davis zu Lincoln zu vergleichen und wie viel das die Grundlage für Erfolg oder Verlust für diese Seiten war.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Nach Gettysburg wird es wirklich die klassische Idee der Krieg der Attraktion werden. Lassen wir uns einfach lange genug halten, um ein paar favorable Termine des Zufriedenes zu haben. Ist das Davis' Ansicht? Ist er der Architekt dieser Strategie?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Okay. Also, wenn Dinge nach Süden gehen, keine Worte, für Davis und die anderen, wie viel ist er Teil der Entscheidung, die Lee macht, an Appomattox? Hat er das okay gemacht?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Und dann folgt der Prozess nach Fort Sumter im nächsten Frühjahr. Kannst du erklären, wie das passiert ist? Warum ist es so ein phasierter Prozess?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
He's arrested, he's put in leg irons, the whole thing. Indicted for treason, becomes imprisoned for two years at Fort Monroe, Virginia, not right on the James River right there.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Er wird parodiert, als würde er in Frauenschlägen weglaufen, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Richtig. Über die Zeit, diese zwei Jahre, mehr als drei Jahre, ist er immer freier, die Lande zu verändern. Er macht seinen Weg nach Kanada in 1867, er wurde auf Beil geliefert. Der Fall gegen ihn wurde offiziell am 25. Dezember geschlossen, Weihnachtszeit, 1868. Der Tod von Jefferson Davis ist wirklich der Anfang, wie wir dieses Land heilen. Es wird der verlorene Grund für die Konfederanz, etc.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Er ist in diesem Bereich prominent, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
But why? I mean, don't you think, I mean, had there been a famous hanging of Jefferson Davis, wouldn't that have been the nail in the coffin for the CSA and all of that?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
He lives a good long life. He dies in 1889, Jefferson Davis.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
That's my last question for you. Did he atone for his sins, what I would view as sins?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Er hat das in den Graben genommen. Ja. Aaron, was ist es so, den Zivilkrieg im tiefen Süden zu lernen? Ist es anders als es in Mainz ist?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Aaron Sheehan-Dean is a professor at Louisiana State University, LSU. He edited A Companion to the U.S. Civil War and the Civil War, The Final Year Told by Those Who Live It, among many other things. Aaron, do you have a website that we should know about or anything like that? I do.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Thank you very much. You too. Thank you. Hey, thanks for listening to American History Hit. Don't miss an episode.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Sure. I mean... I guess it speaks to the internal strife within themselves, right? The politics are going on all the time about who wants to leave and who wants to stay.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Ja, es ist ein Baby mit einem Kühlschrank, ist es nicht? Ja. Und Virginia, so sagt man, ist die letzte, die im Frühling zurückkehrt. Natürlich. Das ist die Heimat der Federalistischen Partei. Das ist, wo es alles beginnt. George Washington.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
How outsized, to use the right word, is Texas in this whole process? I mean, is it an influential force yet?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
How much was it assumed by those who were pro secession that this would be a simple process, like they had the right to do this, so let's just go?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
They write a constitution and let's discuss that process. But I've always wondered, wasn't it basically just going to be the Articles of Confederation? Wasn't it just a throwback to what the United States was previously conceived as?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Virginia's State Capitol building is bursting at its seams. It's December 1861, and lawmakers and visitors press and jostle through crowded doorways, navigating the echoey stone halls in search of a quiet corner to prepare for meetings. Despite the chill outside, the central rotunda is sweltering. The air thick with the fetid odor of hundreds of bodies.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Es gibt also eine Konvention. Sie gehen durch einen Prozess des Schreibens dieser Sache. Es beginnt, glaube ich, am 8. Februar 1861, also ziemlich früh in diesem Prozess. Das ist das, was die anderen Staaten schauen, wenn sie entscheiden, ob sie Teil davon sein wollen.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Interesting. Es ist sehr ähnlich in diesem Bereich zu der US-Konstitution. Ist es die Konstitution der Konfederaten Staaten von Amerika genannt? Ist das der Name davon?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Also drei Branche der Regierung, genau wie die US-Konstitution. Der Präsident arbeitet sechs Jahre lang, nicht vier, und ich glaube, er ist nicht zur Rückwahl verfügbar? Es ist ein einziger Termin? Es ist ein einziger Termin. Interessant.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Die Idee ist generell, die Staatsautonomie zu bemerken. Ist das wirklich in dieser Konstitution geschrieben worden?
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
Not to mention the greasy aromas of cooked poultry, peanuts and hard-boiled eggs, available from food stands. Chicken bones crackle underfoot in a slick residue of tobacco spit, all of it creating a dicey walking hazard. Back in 1785 Thomas Jefferson designed this grand building for Richmond's Capitol Square, modeling it after classical Roman temples.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Who Was Jefferson Davis?
How do they define slavery in terms of, is it the three-fifths compromise?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
So let me be clear, let me summarize. This corporation has organized itself for departure at the end of 1606. They understand that they are looking for this North Earth passage, but they're going to be happy if they create a colony that finds gold, ideally silver, of course, but also, you know, farms things and sends it back to England, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Die Flieger auf der Godspeed und der Discovery schütteln angenehme Augen auf die Susan Constant, ein Schiff zweimal der Größe ihres eigenen. Aber zusammen, in nur ein paar Tagen, werden diese Schiffe westwärts aufsteigen, in das Unbekannte, über den breiten Atlantik. Blackwall, der größte Schiffshall von Thames, ist erwacht. Lokale Männer gehen zu ihren Häusern nahe und gehen nach den Docks.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ja, und es war nicht zu lange her, dass Roanoke nicht gut ging. Korrekt. Wie viele Jahre zwischen dem und Roanoke?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Okay, aber das ist jetzt eine Fable in den Straßen von London. Das war ein großer Geheimnis, wie das sogar passiert ist. Und alle Geschichten sind nicht gut in Bezug auf den Erfolg an diesem Punkt. Richtig.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Also müssen sie zuerst nach den Karibikern gehen und dann nach Norden. Das ist das generelle... Sie werden gezwungen, richtig. Ja, genau. Gehen sie nach dem, was am Ende den James-River genannt wird?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Klar, ich meine, und das ist wichtig. Du hast Spanien nicht zu weit weg. Also müssen sie sich für einen Angriff vorbereiten.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
And this is how they end up 50 miles up the river. Correct. And find what is essentially a peninsula or an island.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Andere, die langgezogen sind, schütteln aus den Innen. Alle von ihnen sind Voyager, die auf dem Weg zum Schiff warten, die sich um die beschäftigten Wälder und Alleyways kümmern. Es ist alles ein langer Schreie von den langen, seltenen Monaten vor ihnen. 100 Männer, die sehr bald nur das Ozean und einander für die Firma haben.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
So, to review, we've got 104 settlers coming in, they arrive, all these people are men, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Bring the women later. Too dangerous. I suppose they've all been interviewed and they're all useful employees of the company.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Hat this been a horrendous voyage? I mean, this always just boggles the mind to think of these people heading off for their first time on the ocean, never mind crossing it, something I will never do in my lifetime. It's just astonishing.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Und in diesen Tagen, du bist ein kleiner Schiff auf einem großen Ozean, du gehst manchmal nach hinten, manchmal nach links. Ich meine, die Route zu finden ist eine verwirrende und schwierige Sache. Das ist der Grund, warum es so lange dauert. Und so kann man sich nur von Tag zu Tag vorstellen, wie viel Argument es gab, du weißt, worum es geht. Are we?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Let alone is our food going to last and my child is sick or whoever. So the mutiny happens in the middle of the ocean?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
So, Mark, were journals kept on this voyage? Do we know the details of their experience?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
So they arrive somehow, someway, April 26, 1607. A holy day for these people, I'm sure, when they somehow find their way pretty close, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Welcome to American History Hit, I'm Don Wildman and it's great to have you aboard. 1606, London. King James VI of Scotland, the first of England and Ireland, sits on the throne. It is the year the Dutch master Rembrandt is born. Fashion favors high waistlines, full sleeves and tall brimmed hats for both men and women.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ein großer Erleichterung für diesen Mann. Sie landen endlich auf dem, was James Town werden wird, der Insel, am 14. Mai 1607. Wie wir gesagt haben, nach der Suche nach dem Meer, um für all die Kriterien da zu qualifizieren. An diesem Punkt sind wir auf dem Weg zu einer erfolgreichen Kolonie. Alles einfach, oder?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
You can only imagine. I mean, that's another thing to sort of take yourself out of your modern day view and realize at that time these lands have not been forested. These are gigantic trees. These are old primeval forests and beautiful, incredible wild lands for people who had come from a place that had been completely forested. Like there was none of that going on in England for a thousand years.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
And so this is really important to keep in mind how awestruck they would have been. Explain when they first get off that ship. Wie werden sie die Aufgabe in Hand nehmen? Wir müssen hier ein Zuhause machen.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Genau. Für das, dass sie, in ihren Gedanken, glücklicherweise einen Ort entschieden haben, wo die Naturals, wie Sie sie nennen, die nativische Population nicht existiert. Boah, ist es immer. Und es ist nicht sehr weit weg und sie schauen. Vielen Dank, Mark. Mark Summers ist der berufliche Direktor der Jugend- und öffentlichen Programme für Jamestown Rediscovery.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Es ist ein gigantischer Tag, wenn man da einen Tag verbracht hat, weil es so viel zu sehen gibt in diesem Ort, nicht wahr?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Shakespeare's Macbeth will premiere this year and later on December 26th, King Lear will make its recorded debut at Whitehall Palace. In April of this year, the Virginia Company receives its charter to colonize a portion of North America's eastern coast. By this time, of course, the Spanish have already established their presence to the south for a hundred years.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
The Portuguese have made landings in what will become Canada and across South America. The British, too, have ventured across the Atlantic to Newfoundland and the ill-fated colony of Roanoke off the coast of today's North Carolina. Now they will attempt colonization once again, but this time determined to make it stick.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
I am joined in this episode by Mark Summers, Educational Director of Youth and Public Programs from Jamestown Rediscovery. Together we will travel to London to uncover the story behind this expedition, who backed it, who boarded the ships, and why Jamestown, this specific spot on the North American eastern shore, was chosen. Mark Summers, willkommen bei American History Hit.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ich bin froh, hier zu sein. Ich genieße deinen Show. Mark, wo wir in diesem Gespräch über Jamestown anfangen, ist wirklich in England und in einem breiteren Sinne in Europa. Das ist das Ende der Zeit der Erfindung. Ich meine, du hast Spanien in Südamerika, Portugal ist da gewesen, sogar die Deutschen machen ihre eigenen Beginnungen. Warum ist England so weit weg an diesem Punkt in diesem Wachstum?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Yeah, they are heading for bad times. Civil war and all the rest is going on over there. Nonetheless, they are prompted to do this. For what reason? What does get them into the race?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ja, ich meine, wir denken an die Kolonisierung auf dieser Seite als diese wirklich gläubige, reichere Sache, weil wir hierher gekommen sind, um die Pilger und alles andere zu tun. Aber es war ein großzügiger, monatelöser Versuch. Ich meine, das waren Unternehmen, die geformt wurden. in order to exploit resources in these new lands, this new world, especially gold for the Spanish.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
And that word had gotten around, obviously. This was an amazing thing that Spain had accomplished by doing what they did in South America. England wants their piece of the action.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Right. What is the Virginia Company? Because that's who's going to be heading over to Virginia. Yeah.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Right. And let's get the notes of the monarchy straight. So we had Queen Elizabeth. She is succeeded by James I, who is also James VI of Scotland, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Richtig. Und Spoiler-Alert, es wird für diesen Grund Jamestown genannt. Richtig.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Und an dem Zeitpunkt, natürlich, haben wir Florida, die zu den Spaniern gehört, wir haben die Spanier großartig, weiter nach Süden von dort. Die Franzosen sind nach Norden. Wie ist es, dass dieser große Teil des oberen Seelands Nordamerikas für Kolonisierung verfügbar ist?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Okay. Und das ist, weshalb ich investiere. Ich erwarte, dass ich Gold und Silber bekomme, oder zumindest die Bezahlungen dafür.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ja, genau. Sehr, sehr, sehr schluck. Und wie machen sie die Knöpfe und Bolzen dieser Sache? Wie finden sie die Flieger und all das?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Drei Schiffe sitzen in den Wäldern von Blackwall Docks in London ohne Bewegung. Schildert von den feuchten Winden des Thames durch den Horseshoe Bend in diesem Streit des Rivers, sind die Schiffe völlig still, in Wäldern, die von einem gewöhnlichen winterlichen Schleif spattern.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Obviously, their water route to the Pacific is the essential goal here, right?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Richtig. Und es macht Sinn. Wir schlagen unsere Augen und machen Spaß auf diese Leute, die es für Indien und alles andere falsch machen. Aber wenn man die Chesapeake Bay sieht, ist es ein riesiges Stück Wasser, auch heute. Und man kann sich nur vorstellen, dass jemand in einem dieser kleinen Schiffe sailt und sagt, okay, gut, das ist der Weg nach Indien. Es ist hier.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Und es ist kein Wunder, dass sie so weggehen würden. Wer wird diese Schiffe kapitänieren?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ein sehr mysteriöser Mann. Gehen sie immer in Dreien, diese berühmten Voyages?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Alle Reflexionen, die sonst auf den Strömungen schimmern, sind nur gebrochene Schatten auf dem dunklen, dapfelnden Wasser. Es ist morgens, im Dezember 1606. Die Crews von der Susan Constant, der Godspeed und der Discovery bereiten ihre Schiffe bereit, um an der Bord zu fahren.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Ja, und ich bin sicher, wie viele Supplies sie brauchen, etc. etc. I'll be right back after this short break. Meantime, if you'd like us to cover anything specifically, if you have any ideas of subject matter we should be looking at, send us an email at ahh.historyhit.com. We'd love to hear from you.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
So, I want to get a little nautically in the weeds here. How did they choose the time of year to go? How much strategy did they understand about what they were doing?
American History Hit
Jamestown: The Journey To America
Interessant. Und sie hätten Ads für das gesehen, auf der breiten Seite? Ich meine, wie ist das überhaupt?
The Ancients
Origins of Astronomy
In case you haven't heard, in the U.S., it's a presidential election year. We're going to hear a lot of, this is America. No, no, you're all wrong. This is America. But on American History Hit, we're leaving that to the rest of them. Join me, Don Wildman, twice a week, where we look to the past to understand the United States of today with the help of some amazing guests.
The Ancients
Origins of Astronomy
Let us introduce you to the founding fathers, guide you through the West Wing of the White House, and shelter you on the battlefields of years gone by to find out just how we got here. American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.
The Ancients
Origins of Astronomy
In case you haven't heard, in the U.S., it's a presidential election year. We're going to hear a lot of, this is America. No, no, you're all wrong. This is America. But on American History Hit, we're leaving that to the rest of them. Join me, Don Wildman, twice a week. where we look to the past to understand the United States of today with the help of some amazing guests.
The Ancients
Origins of Astronomy
Let us introduce you to the founding fathers, guide you through the West Wing of the White House, and shelter you on the battlefields of years gone by to find out just how we got here. American History Hit, a podcast from History Hit.