Michelle Obama
Appearances
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: The Andrew Tate Story (Part 1 & 2)
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: The Andrew Tate Story (Part 1 & 2)
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: The Andrew Tate Story (Part 1 & 2)
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: The Andrew Tate Story (Part 1 & 2)
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: The Andrew Tate Story (Part 1 & 2)
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: The Andrew Tate Story (Part 1 & 2)
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Grifters Behind The Fake Autism 'Cure' Industry
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Grifters Behind The Fake Autism 'Cure' Industry
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Grifters Behind The Fake Autism 'Cure' Industry
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Grifters Behind The Fake Autism 'Cure' Industry
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Grifters Behind The Fake Autism 'Cure' Industry
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: The Grifters Behind The Fake Autism 'Cure' Industry
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 175
So let's unpack that. Former First Lady Michelle Obama. And someone who knows her best, her big brother Craig. We'll be hosting a podcast called IMO.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 175
So let's unpack that. Former First Lady Michelle Obama. And someone who knows her best, her big brother Craig. We'll be hosting a podcast called IMO.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 175
Former First Lady Michelle Obama. And someone who knows her best, her big brother Craig. We'll be hosting a podcast called IMO.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 175
So let's unpack that. Former First Lady Michelle Obama. And someone who knows her best, her big brother Craig. We'll be hosting a podcast called IMO.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 177
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 176
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 3 - Never Turned Her Back on Me
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 3 - Never Turned Her Back on Me
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 3 - Never Turned Her Back on Me
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 3 - Never Turned Her Back on Me
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
What could I do wrong? As long as I just stand up straight, I'm showing up. I do not remember the drool.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
That's a good question. Um, You know, not trying to get things so perfect. You know, as First Lady, the eight years, even beyond, the stakes were so high, right? Yeah. you know, Barack and I, our team, we felt like we didn't have room to get anything wrong. And in this setting, you know, I can be loose. I can stutter. I can misspeak sometimes, even though I'm sure that will make news.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
But I just feel like there's room to breathe. And maybe some of that is my age. Maybe some of that is that now that I'm in my 60s, What more do I have to prove? How much more do I have to do? And let's just live. Let's just talk.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's too much. And fellas, you know, why don't you try it?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Less is more. We should try. But, you know, you don't feel— Your confidence as a woman, at least I didn't until now. I mean, and I say that out loud because I know that there are young women in their 30s and 40s trying to get that perfection thing right. We always feel like we're not doing enough. We're always harboring guilt.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And it's not until now that we can look back on this lifetime of accomplishments and say, look, maybe I did know a thing or two. Maybe I can... Slow down. Maybe I can take a break. But I think we're harder on ourselves than anyone can be. And I agree. I'm having those conversations with myself every day. It's like, slow down. It's OK. You don't have to get this right.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You can make some mistakes, maybe. And you've got some wisdom to share. Finally, you know, I feel confident in the wisdom that I have to share.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
20s and 30s are really hard. Would you trade that stomach?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Like, I can't believe how I stayed up so late. You know, I never did, but— I was always sleepy, you know. I just want the abs.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Tell me about your bedtime routine. What time do you like to go to bed and how do you like to go to bed? It's embarrassing. And I, you know, I go to bed as soon as I can. Me too.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's 1030 in the morning. I agree. Yeah, I can't wait. Well, Barack and I, we usually have dinner at around 630. Perfect. And he's a night owl. Oh. So if we have guests, I'm good. If I'm with people, I'm up, I'm awake, I can do this stuff. But after we've had our catch-up conversation and we've had our together time and all of that, I'm looking at the clock and he's looking at me.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
He's like, really? Really? It's 8 o'clock. I was like, I just— Incredible. I'm just so ready, you know? So I'm like, it's not you. It's me. It's time for bed. It's time for bed. And I get so giddy. Me too. I wash my face. I get into the cool sheets because the room has to be cold.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And then he's freezing. I was like, just put on some socks.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I'm not sure the brand of the mattress. I should know, but I don't.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Your house will be filled with mattresses. Okay, I'm going to find out.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
What do we got there? It's a lamp. It's my phone chargers, my glasses, my reading glasses, water.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I cannot read because I love sleep so much. I realized if I want to read, I have to be sitting up in the daylight.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Yes, it does. Like one sentence, I'm like, and the book. So, you know, then I don't remember where I am. I don't listen to podcasts because I don't hear it. I'm asleep. My head hits the pillow, and I'm out. Any sleep aid?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
No, I don't need an aid. I just need to put my head on the pillow. Do you wear socks to bed? Nope, mm-mm. Do not like socks. And do you like pajamas or nightgown situation?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It depends on how hot I am. Yeah. And we're at that stage, you know. Sometimes I get in the bed and I'm freezing. Yes. And other times it's like, oh, my God, take my skin off. It's like.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's a battle with a partner, right? Because he's always cold. And I'm like, do not touch. And sometimes I wake up hot and I'll wake him up. Did you touch the thermostat? You touched the thermostat, didn't you? He's like, I didn't. I swear to God. He now knows. He's afraid of the thermostat. I said, I don't care what you do. Do not touch anything in this room after I go to sleep.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And now I'm at the age where I'll wake up with my shoulders sore.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Yeah, I do. How many push-ups do you do? Well, now I do them on my knees. This is another thing. It's like I don't need to do regular push-ups. I have nothing to prove. But I can do push-ups on my knees. I can do a lot of those.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I can, but it's hard. I think my arm length, I don't go all the way down. In fact, you know who pointed that out? was Ellen. Because my first term, she challenged me to a push-up competition. I'm the first lady. I mean. And she heard that I worked out. That counts. So I'm on her show doing push-ups. And I did more push-ups than her, but she still says I didn't go down all the way.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Well, that's not fair. But anatomically, I don't think I really can. My arms are very long. Yeah. And she's a much smaller person than me.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
We like them. Some of the small people are our best friends. You're so cute. I don't know. I don't trust this.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Pocket people. We love them. Just right up under our arms. They just fit right there. Condescending a little bit. Your little pocket people. Just right here. Right up under my arm. It's like, look at you down there, little friend. Little friend. So what did you and Craig talk about with height?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Really? They were not. My mom was maybe tall for her age, for that generation. Maybe she was 5'6", 5'5". Yeah, that's not that tall. My father was 5'9", 5'10".
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I think it's nutrition. That's what we told them, you know, and because there's a whole generation of cousins of ours with a few exceptions. We're all tall and our parents are kind of average. And then our generation of kids are a little taller.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And our parents, you know, who knows what their parents did. Remember how much milk we all drank? You know, yeah. Like everything had milk in it. But my mom smoked during her pregnancy. You know, that was when you didn't know about smoking, seatbelts, drinking. She did all of that. And we always said, you know what? We could have been somebody. Had you taken care of yourself a little bit better.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Oh, my God. This is funny because both Barack and Craig will say that I don't let them tease me. See, we have a deal, Barack and I, in our marriage. And it started very early. It's like, I can tease you. But you cannot tease me. You know? So when he does, I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, wait a minute. What's going on here? And he's like, I'm teasing you, right? And I was like, none of that.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Because he likes to tease. Oh, my God. Yeah. But when me, Malia, and Sasha, all of us are together. He doesn't stand a chance. We mercilessly go after him. So, yes, teasing is our love language. And I tell them that. I say, when I tease you, it's like me, you know, it's like a love tap.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Yeah, because what did I do? What did I do? What do you want? Well, it started with our parents. They're both silly. My mother went through a period of time where she would just scare us. With pranks? Just scaring, right?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
She would just pop out of places. And we're little, you know? I mean, it was just a period. I don't know what she was doing, but it got progressively a little more demented. Mm-hmm. Craig will tell the story that, you know, he was maybe 10, 12. He's taking a shower. We have one bathroom. My mother goes in while he's taking a shower and lays on the floor like she's dead. She just lays out.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And he turns off the shower and opens up and you just hear the... And I come in and she's cracking up and he's wet with a towel. He's like weepy. Mom, that's not funny. She's just like, that was pretty funny. And then one night, and we were little when she did this, we had this voodoo mask. It was a Halloween mask. I mean, it was neon. It had hair and teeth. I don't know.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It was the middle of the night. We had long gone to bed, and she just walked to each of our rooms, and she said, with the mask on, and said, Michelle? No. Michelle? No. And woke me up, and I was like, ah! And then she's like, shh, I'm going to your brother's room.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
She's trying to keep it interesting, you know? That was our household. All right, so we, you know, we got it honest.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
That's a great question. I love talking about my mom. I love talking about my parents. And I was so glad to have told some of her story in my second book, The Light, before she passed so that I could give her her flowers back. when she could see it, you know. But my mom loved kids. And she, I think at the core of her being was this understanding that every kid was special.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I mean, she loved us for sure, but she loved all kids that she came in contact with. We didn't have a lot of money, but my parents made the choice that my mom would stay home with us. And she didn't, use that time frivolously. I mean, she wasn't just looking after us.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
She would come up to school and help kids that were struggling, teach kids that, you know, the room mom before there were room moms, because she just believed in the power and intelligence that little people, as she called them, brought into the world. And she just wanted to feed into that. And we got a lot of that. But, you know,
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
why I'm such an advocate for kids is it comes from my mom because she fully believes that we underestimate kids. And that we, you know, we don't come here, that we as adults are the ones that mess them up. That all kids are born into this world really special. And so I felt that, right? And I think that's one of the reasons, that's where confidence began for me.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Is sitting at my kitchen table, me and my brother, with a mom who really, really loved our voices. She liked to hear our thoughts. She thought we were funny. We made her laugh. We felt special in her presence. And sadly, we needed that because as kids, Black kids, poor Black kids, there would be a lot of people who would try to dim the light that she was pouring into us.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
So we had an abundance of it, which allowed us to steel ourselves for what was to come, probably prepared me in ways I couldn't have imagined for those White House years, that time in the spotlight, because I was still fortified with the light she had given me all my life. So I could handle a lot of the negativity. I could handle the stress and the pressure. So I agree with you.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And, you know, I think we were blessed. Yeah. And to whom much is given, much is expected. So just I just try to pass it on. And part of IMO is like it's a way to share a lot of that wisdom that she taught us to pass it on. You know, the girls listen and they're like, man, you know, you're telling everybody things you tell us every day. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, now you hear it, right?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
She's like, they're both like, wow, Mom, you're kind of making sense. I was like, I've been telling you this for 23, 26 years, you little knuckleheads.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
They looked at me like, pretty good. I do that, Amy, too. Every now and then I make a good point to them. And I was like, do you know who I am? I'm Michelle Obama. People line up for my advice. And you're walking away like I'm stupid. It's like, I've written books about I've given speeches. The whole world has listened to me, and I can't get you to just do what I told you to do yesterday. No.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Oh, yeah. It's very important. Do you need something for the saliva?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's a spittoon. I haven't seen one of those in a while. Have you seen the fake food we have up here? You know what? Do you enjoy fake food? It's amazing how I did see that, and I just turned around. Yeah, well, it takes a minute.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Oh, we got to, we should, all right, my team, we should find food and send it to Amy. Oh, this is a candle. That's a kissy. It's food that's a thing. It's a thing that is shaped like food.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Now, you come across these things in life, and you're like, I gotta have this hamburger thing. I mean, how do you think about this?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Now you're not collecting like artifacts or you're looking for food that are things like what is this?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Strange. It is strange. Very strange. Very strange. I'll take that. Well, I'm glad you pointed that out because when I went for the tissue, I was like, it's food. Wow.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Oh, I, I think, um, always show up in the world in a, in a way that would make them proud, you know, um, be the, the, the person in the world that they were to you. Right. That's two things. Oh, okay. I thought that was just a variation on a theme.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Oh, did he say that? Yes. That's because he was mad because we did something yesterday and he only gave one answer and I gave two and he felt gypped. See? But he's right. I mean, you know, yes, so what? I have many ideas in my head. I told you I like to talk.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
There is no such thing as a one thing. Nobody really means that.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Because I wasn't trying to not answer the question, but I understand. Well, we learn that in all of the White House. Totally. I mean, so many times in interviews. People ask you something.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And you go, where's my spittoon? That's always a good distraction for you, Amy.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
My version of golf... To Barack because he's got golf on all the time. That's like his – he says it's my background noise. So my version of that is HGTV.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
House Hunters. Incredible. There's something so soothing about the arc of that.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You know? Yeah. You look for a house. We just like looking at people's houses.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You're like, it could be any house. But don't you, do you prefer when the budget is a low budget house or a high budget house? Because sometimes I feel a way, you know, especially House Hunters International.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And don't you like the way people have such high expectations with a low budget? Like, these aren't marble. It's like, but you want to pay $100 a month. I want $100 a month. All marble. And then the real estate agent, especially in the foreign countries, are incredulous. It's like, oh, you want a yard for a large dog? I love it, though.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's not going to happen for you. You're going to be living above that bar.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Oh, I love all the makeover stuff. Me too. I love Rock the Block. What's that? I don't know that one. Oh, you don't know? No. Well, this is when they get all the designers from all the other shows together. And they come on to one block of newly built houses from scratch. And they compete for rooms to see each week. Like they'll do the living room and the kitchen. Right? So the designers go in.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
They have a week or whatever to redo that area. And then they're judged by other designers. And then they win and they collect points until they finish the whole house. Wow.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I mean, they are literally renovating. They start with the frame and they, you know, do the kitchen, master bedroom, the master bathroom, the yard. Wow. The exterior and everything. The exterior facade. Dang. I know. I'm really going in.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And I like the before and after. Mm-hmm. I like the wow. Those floors look much better. Yeah. You're an empty nester?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
They're nice bears. They're nice bears. Well, I had girls and girls are, you know, they're As I'm learning, I was kind of lucky. They're clean.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
They make sentences. They have thoughts and ideas and you can rationalize with them. I know. It's completely different. I realized I did. Food bill was a lot lower. I don't know how you do it. If you don't know the average weekly intake, because it shifts with boys. I mean, They have a growth spurt, and they can drink a gallon of milk in a day. I mean, how do you live like that?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's never too late, Michelle. I cooked before. Oh, and then you stopped. Well, I became first lady. And then you can't cook. They don't let you cook. Well, I didn't. I was busy.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
There's a kitchen, yes. And you can go in and use it. But I'm like, they're chefs. You do that better than me. I mean, I don't want to put you out of a job. You can make the eggs.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
That's right. Unless you told them to leave, they wouldn't be comfortable with that.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You know, I'm sure there are first ladies, first families that cook in the White House. I'm just sort of like, I'm okay not cooking.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Nope. It's not on my agenda at all. It's not among the things that I want to do in this stage in life.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I want to try to do normal things. Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, going for a walk. By yourself? Never-ish, but if they're further behind, it's like, I can still see you. I want to be, I want to feel like I'm by myself a little further. They're reading a newspaper upside down.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Uh, I'm, I'm driving a little bit more. Excellent. So that, and by myself in the car by myself. Excellent. Which is such like, I realized for the first time I was driving with Malia. We were in Martha's vineyard and I'm driving. She turns on the radio and starts playing some of our favorite songs and we're singing at the top of our lungs. I realized I'd never had that experience with her.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I'd never had that experience with her as a, as, from teenagers on because they learned to drive, but I didn't teach them how to drive. I couldn't drive with them. I mean, just sort of the basic kind of bonding moments. You know, we didn't have time alone in a car, just with me and my daughter. playing the music that we wanted at the volume that we wanted. That's why I like the vineyard.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I like the islands where we live because they're small places and people, you know, they get used to you. They don't care. At certain times of the year, I can walk into town and just go shopping. I mean, I just go into a store, try on clothes on my own, go to the register. Sometimes I forget how to use my credit card. Yeah.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
What's that? No, I'm just kidding. You know Apple Pay, right? I do, but I don't use it. You don't use it? No. Do you have a regular phone?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's just like shh. You know, and then what if they get your phone information and somebody else can take your information and go beep. You know, and for you know it, you own a house.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
See, I'm trying to hold on. You know, when all things fall apart, when the system just crashes, I'm still going to have cash. I do love cash. Do you? I love cash. I have old cash. I have cash that's been in my wallet untouched probably for a decade. My kids make fun of me. But I'm like, don't take it out.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I don't have cash. No, Michelle does not have cash. I don't carry cash. But I guess I'm good because I also have this security guy with guns, you know. And I still think like that. It's like, where's my wallet? Where are my keys?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
what, what have they done? It's what haven't they done? I mean, just, you know, they're the, they're, I love to go to my friends' homes just to be normal, to help with the dishes, to sit down in the yard, to, you know, to talk about something else other than whatever is in the news. Um, my friends are the people who know everything about me. Um, And they only know me as Michelle.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
So it's everything. And my family, my brother, doing this podcast with him the first time we worked together on something. I mean, just, you know, seeing his face and having him on the other side of the table, somebody who can humanize me to others and to myself. Mm-hmm. in this sort of position we've been in, that is more powerful and meaningful probably for me than for a lot of people.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
So it's the air I breathe, my friendships. That's why I try to really be mindful about maintaining them and pouring into them and making sure there's reciprocity that they You know, and that they feel seen by me in all of this, right?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Yeah, we want the blemishes and the bumps and, you know, and, you know, they want that. But the message that we deliver to them is that you don't, you can't get that solely on your phone. Yeah. And that's, I think that's the piece that we can teach them.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It's like, yeah, push us to be real. But, you know, I want to push young people to have real experiences.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You know, with real people face to face, because that authenticity that they see in us comes from that old way of living, you know, where you, you know, you meet a person in a bar and have a conversation that you talk to people in the grocery store line that you are looking up from your phone and seeing the world.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
that you're learning about people not through their, you know, TikTok page, but from a conversation.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
And you've lost me. Well, tell me, what was the thing? Is the TikTok page, you like the TikTok page information? Yes, I love the TikTok page. Okay, so it's both and. Both and. Have the TikTok page because you do get some real dirt. You get a perspective or what do you get from the TikTok page?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I'm not fangirling, but, you know, a lot of... re rewatching a lot of parks and rec, you know, I mean, that's the kind of humor that I like community, uh, modern family, old Seinfelds, you know, I mean, that tends to be, I still find myself laughing out loud with episodes that I've seen over and over again, just clever, clever dialogue, smart plots, you know, just out of the, you know,
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Yeah, it's like, whoa, look at her keeping her. Keeping her saliva inside. Good way to go. That's my girl.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I got off the plane and— Did you take anything for it? I take allergy medicine every day.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Like, does it make you feel— No, it doesn't. But I find that when I get off of it— You know, you have to build back up. So I just stay on it. We travel so much. We're everywhere all the time. So you never know. It's spring somewhere. Something's blooming. Have you ever done a neti pot? I have done that, but I don't do it. I've done it. But it doesn't make a huge difference. It doesn't work.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I mean, I like Nasonex. Yeah, I love it. I like the nose spray. I love the nose spray. If I do that every day, I don't know if there's a limit to how much you're supposed to do it, but I keep it going. I mean, I'm sure it's on the bottle somewhere. I should look at that bottle. I haven't looked at that bottle in years.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
I haven't seen you in a second. Incredible. Thank you. I know that that's not as important, but you look incredible. Thank you. It's called peace of mind. You look hot.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You know, my mom passed last year, but she would say, This is exactly what you should be doing because I talk a lot. We talk in our family.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
The Obama family. Everybody talks. Malia, Sasha, we all have many opinions. Yes. And we share them openly. So why not have a...
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It was so cool. I was just, my assistant, who's young, she's a baby. We were just saying, I was sitting in the car right over her. I said, I haven't seen, I don't think we've seen, seen each other since Parks and Rec. And she was like, you were on Parks and Rec? Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm kind of a big deal.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
It was a blur because the thing is, I'm not an actress, and I'm running lines and trying to figure out cues.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
But I was nervous. I was like, you know, I want to get it right, but I want to be myself in a natural way. So it was very much a blur. What do you remember about that day?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
That happened. I don't know if I saw it. But the real drool, what happened? Why the drool?
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
You're just talking and drool comes out of your mouth. Now, those are some active glands. Active glands.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
They have the extra large suction tube for you. They've got an Amy tube.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Michelle Obama
Do they really? They have to put in two tubes sometimes. This is some tea right here. Totally breaking news.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
You know what I mean? And how old were you then? I was 11. And they were like, this is huge.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
You know what I mean? And how old were you then? I was 11. And they were like, this is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Really, whatever that is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Although that was one of my favorite moves.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I thought I did when I would be asked. Probably around the age of 10, I thought I wanted to be a pediatrician.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Well, that makes me think, I mean, I share this all the time. I mean, I went to Princeton, Harvard Law, because I thought I was going to be a lawyer and a corporate lawyer. I didn't know anything about what a lawyer did. I didn't come, our family was, we were not professional people. I picked law because it was the next thing to do.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I applied, I got into Harvard, you get into Harvard, you go, right? That was the extent of my thinking. Yeah. Right. And then I got out. I practiced in a firm for two years and I was like, I don't like this at all. I'm not, you know, because corporate law is about its papers and briefs, its research. It's not very people oriented, especially in your early years.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
It just, I had no idea what corporate law was. Right. Right. And I had wonderful mentors. People supported me. I was able to achieve and do good things in that year. But I didn't know what that felt like. I did not want to be a lawyer. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
As it turns out, after all that education and all those loans, but to your point, it was all them loans that we just paid off before Barack went into the White House. Okay. So, I mean, we were carrying debt, you know, for a very long time for me not to be a lawyer. But to your point, I had no idea what that was about. going to mean and what that was going to feel like.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
It was just a goal that I set for myself. I didn't even know what it was based on. I didn't know my why. I knew my what, but I didn't know my why. And I could have felt like a failure for it, right? But I didn't. Fortunately, I had parents. I was like, let me try on some other things. To your point, there are chapters in life. That was a chapter.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
No, no, no.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Lawyer didn't come until after I realized that I was not talented at chemistry or math. You know, that's what you can be at 10. You can dream. That's like being a doctor is all about loving children and wanting to help because I love kids. I love little kids. And I thought, well, if I could do something that was professional and I could save lives.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I needed to do that and know that and understand that. And I went on to have many, many chapters. And I'm still glad that I got my law degree. The way I think, how I see the world is very much influenced by that education.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
But it wasn't who I was supposed to be. And there's no way I would have known that had I not tried it and then moved on from it and tried on some other things. So for Noelle, they're just, that life is about the chapters. You know, it's never any one thing. And to place too much stock or put too much emotion on one or two achievements, it always sets you up for disappointment. It's so true.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Because life is bigger than that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And then I went to high school and chemistry kind of threw me for I didn't like science or math.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
But this is why I want, you know, this piece of advice is for Noel, but it's also for parents out there. It's for teachers. It's for the people who work with young people. You know, I think we put too much emphasis on titles and salaries and stuff like that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I mean, you know, one reason why I said I wanted to be a lawyer was because when you say that out loud and you're a little kid, the adult's responses are always, Oh, that's so wonderful, right? Like, they don't even know what that is. It's like, it sounds good. You know, I want my daughter to be a lawyer, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
So we're constantly giving feedback to kids subtly and directly about what makes for a good life, what makes for a good career choice, what makes you a good person. And a lot of times it's tied to what's your title? What's your salary? What school did you go to? What's that name school? And we're sending those subtle messages.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
So now you become Noel and you've been all throughout your life pursuing these little applause lines that you get from adults that are a sign that this is good. Oh, you want to write a book? Oh, that sounds impressive, right? Guess I want to write a book. Mom reacted pretty well to that. Yeah. So now I see young people getting caught at going after words, titles, things, right? A salary.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I want to be rich. I want to be this name thing. And that keeps them from understanding their macro because they're not spending time thinking about who am I. That's right. And what do I want to be in life? Because when I had to transition out of law, that was the first time when I decided at that stage, after all that debt, I don't want to be a lawyer.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I could get grades. But if I thought, if I'm going to pick a career where I have to do math and science for like eight years, it's like, nah, I'll do something else. But that was my dream. What about you?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Now I have to do the hard work of figuring out, well, who do I want to be? Because none of my degrees taught me to even think like that. No one had ever asked those questions. I was getting A's and awards and all that, but nobody ever said, who is Michelle? And who do you want to be in the world?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
So I had to do that work on my own and start meeting with different people and hearing about different jobs and careers because I was even limited to going to the best schools in the country. I was shown like 10 careers I could be of all the things in the world, you know? How did you discover, how did you get yourself to that answer? I'm curious. I started doing, I started meeting with people.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I started thinking, I had to start thinking outside of the box, like, what do I enjoy?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And it went back to kids and inspiring. It went back to mentoring. And it's like, I get my most fulfillment. I wake up and pop out of bed when I'm going to sit down with another young person who was like me. And I could like, share with them some secrets, some things I learned to help make their life a little bit easier. Because I know just how many young people just don't know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Really, whatever that is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And you really do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
It was like race car. I was going to say pilot.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
But before you can understand the we, you have to understand the me. You know, like I had to take some time to really understand my, I'll use your, my macro. What did I care about? How do I want to be in the world? How do I want to impact people? And so from there, really sort of saying to myself, well, my joy comes from giving and working with other people and working with young people.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
That's really my joy, right? And then now, like, what are the careers I can do with that? Who are the people that do this? And their teachers is like, I don't know if I want to be in a classroom, have some conversations with professors. I started talking to people at universities because young adults were there. I met with deans of students. I wrote to presidents of universities, Northwestern.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I wrote to the... president of the University of Chicago, I was just making this stuff up. And I sent letters saying, this is who I am. I'm a young attorney. I went to these schools. I'd love to come and talk to you. And I got a lot of no's, but I got a handful of yeses. And I remember meeting with the head of corporation counsel for the University of Chicago.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I'll never forget Art Sussman, who has passed. He just said, I would love to meet with you because he was an attorney. And I sat down, took time off of lunch, went met with him, talked about the university and all the things that you can do there. And then he introduced me to Susan Scherr, who eventually became my chief of staff as first lady. Wow.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
She was working in the mayor's office as corporation counsel. Eventually, she introduced me to Valerie Jarrett. who then hired me to work in the city. These are people who are now all my longtime friends, but this all came from me trying to find out my me. And through it, I met all these strangers. None of these people knew me. But it built to this story. And I started trying on other things.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I just tried on other careers. I worked for the city in planning and development. I worked in the mayor's office. I started a nonprofit organization working with young people. Oh my God.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
That's why you love Formula One so much.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
No, what did she say?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Thank you. felt felt Thank you. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Oh, see, Ms.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Yeah, but she didn't know that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And the fact that... And she didn't also know that race car drivers make a pretty good living.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Thank you. We'll be right back.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Although that was one of my favorite movies.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
So Miss Thompson didn't know what she was talking about.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And what grade was that? Second grade. See, this is what we're talking about. And that's the thing. One of the things I don't like about asking little kids, little bitty kids what they want to be like they would know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And then shaming them, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
It's just sort of like, why do we do that to kids? Because that sets them up for thinking that life is predictable. You can pick things and plan it and it will actually happen. And we're going to talk about this more later. But I think that's one of the things that gets kids kind of stuck into thinking that they're supposed to know. everything about their lives by the time they're 15.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
They're supposed to have it all figured out. Yeah. And that just sets them up. It sets up the wrong kind of expectation for how life actually works.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Well, because over the course of your life, you may actually be three or four different things. But yeah, dreams, you know, it's fun to dream, but I think that it's the balance of how do you let kids dream, but you don't pigeonhole them by their dreams. Right, right. And I'm very careful about that. I mean, like with the girls, Malia...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
is one of those interesting kids who, when she was 10, she said she wanted to write and direct, and she's doing that. That's crazy. I always say that to Sasha, the younger one. That's unusual. It is rare that somebody decides at 10 that they want to do something, and then they do it, and they actually like it. But I still try not to pigeonhole them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Just because I say this to Malia, just because you said you wanted to do that at 10, you're now an adult. You're trying this stuff on. You may like it. You may not. I just want to always give my kids an out because if things don't work out right, I don't want to think that they're disappointing me because they said they were going to do something when they were 10.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
It didn't turn out that way or life happened. So I'm constantly trying to balance being enthusiastic about what they want to do, but also say life, we don't know what's going to happen in life. So we have to stay emotionally and mentally flexible so that when things go wrong or something changes or they learn something new about themselves, that they have room to respond to that change. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I mean, just listening to you read Kiki's bio, it's like, girl, I would think you were 70 years old with all you've done in your life. Sometimes I do feel 70. You know, I mean, how did you, how have you packed so much into such a young life? You're, you know, you're a baby yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Oh my gosh, thank you so much.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
And you have done so much in such a short period of time. Girl, I'm so proud of you. Just watching you just do your thing. How do you manage all of that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Do you think about the wisdom of their parenting? What do you think now about the way your parents, you know, sort of guided you?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
That sounds just like Our mom, who's like, I don't understand these kids blaming their parents. It's like, well, you think their parents didn't go through something? I mean, there's just a... And we talked about it because we from Illinois. Okay. And Kiki, she's sort of almost from Chicago. Anytime I say Robbins, people are like.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
But if you know Chicago, you know Robbins is like, it's the hood suburb.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
This episode is brought to you by Pinesol and Chase Home Lending.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
It's not, you know, Robbins is not Highland Park. No. It's not Barrington, you know. But your parents sound like there's a sort of common sense groundedness to just the way they think. There's just kind of a Midwestern kind of simplicity and kind of, you know, no-nonsense mentality.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Hi, Craig.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
I'm great. How are you? Welcome back to my world.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
You got a lot of nerve coming into D.C. and you didn't even stay with me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Disappointment Is the Key to Career Success with Keke Palmer
Because you all trying to be Airbnb friendly.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
What happened that eight years that we were in the White House? What did that do to me? Yes. Internally, my soul, we made it through. We got out alive. I hope we made the country proud. My girls, thank God, are whole. But what happened to me? Right. Right? This episode is brought to you by Pine Salt and Therafluid. Craig Malcolm Robinson. Michelle LaVon Robinson. Not Robinson, Obama. Obama.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Oh, that's right. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, you had to. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
But Airbnb is for everyone of all ages and you were living proof of that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Ooh, I like pine salt.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You know, an appropriate partner.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Very, very excited.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Out of necessity.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Let me just say, my brother has been giddy, a little silly giddy all day. And he even wore a whole suit.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Because he's usually in jeans. It's like there's usually, we don't know what's going on down there. But your top matches your pants today. That means we got somebody special here with us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You know, and that's the, you know, the... Part of what you said that you never heard mom complain about it. I think that that's part of the issue.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
When we grow up, our grandmothers, Grandma LaVon, Grandma Rebecca, these were all women. All black women had to work. Yep. Our mother was fortunate.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
She didn't work until I went to high school, but that was a choice that she and my father made because so we lived off of one salary and we made huge sacrifices for that because I think my mother understood that if she was going to be the kind of mother she wanted to be, that we would forego living a good life, that we live in a little bitty apartment and just make ends meet.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
But that was a rare thing. But you've never heard these women complain because it was just the way life was. And I think that that's part of our trauma too. Because we grew up with women who weren't voicing the pain and the burden. They made it look easy. And when you make stuff look easy, people assume... that you must like this.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
It's okay with you, right? Right. You know, we don't articulate as Black women our pain because it's almost like nobody ever gave us permission to do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, there's that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Or, you know, yeah, and we have to ask ourselves, the men in our lives is... why wait to be asked? It seems like what we go through is pretty obvious. I mean, maybe we're not complaining, but we're actually living life out loud. You see us carrying these babies. You see us working a job and coming home and managing, getting food on the table and handling doctor's appointments.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And this is if you've got a partner, right? I think some of us feel like Why should we have to ask? Yeah. You know, it seems apparent. And as Black women, sometimes we, you know, there is that underlying thing we're socialized to believe from very early on that we don't deserve any better, you know? Or that this is life for us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
We do not. Exactly.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
We give it to God. And that's an important... Spirituality is an important... But God gifted humans...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, yeah. Owning her own stuff.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Well, I think that's why it's important for us at tables like this, for women like us who do have a platform to talk openly about the challenges that we face, not because we... are complaining, which we don't want to ever be complaining, but because we need to change, we need to turn that cycle on its head. Yes. And we have to talk about our stresses openly, you know. And also, as Black women, um,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
We are so easily labeled as angry and bitter. And let me tell you some of the most hurtful stuff that I experienced. Entering this life of public service at the heights that we entered into was during my husband's presidential campaign. And just me telling the truth of who we were, just humanizing him as a man saying he's a great man, but he's not perfect.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
He's got his foibles and his flaws trying to humanize him. The first thing that some female journalist said is that I was bitter. I was emasculating him. just by sort of trying to tell the truth about what life is, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And then you get labeled as angry because you talk forcefully or passionately about something, even if it's in the context of great joy and pride that the first label they put on us as black women is that we are angry. Mm-hmm. And, you know, the irony is, is like, yeah, I am probably less light than many of my white female friends. I see that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I know, I know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Less light.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
L-I-G-H-T. Because I say this a lot. I mean, I see the difference in some of my white female friends. I see a lightness, an ability to be in the world and see what's going on, but still be... not as burdened about it as I think I am.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I think that what I see happen in the news, the assault on immigration rights, the challenges that face our community, the inequality, I think it burns at me in a different way.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, I can't wait for that to come out. I know, I know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah. It affects your children. Yeah. It affects you. Yeah. So imagine, you know, we wake up every day just carrying that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You know, even if it doesn't directly affect me, sometimes I just have to stop reading the paper. Yes. So that I can stop thinking about all that's wrong. Sometimes, I don't know about you, Taraji, I can't stop thinking about it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Well, you embarked upon an interesting journey to find your peace recently. Can you share some of your tools for trying to find that peace? Well, I'll tell you this.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
No. No.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Moscato. I got me a bottle. Ooh. I had two bottles. I may let you try one.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Thank you. I love your hair. Thank you. Love yours, too. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You know, when I hear you talk about the practice, what I'll call the practice of no, because you're absolutely right. And I know that everyone struggles with disappointing people, with trying to set boundaries. But I particularly relate to, you know, what you were saying about it takes you a while before you, you know... Maybe as a woman, as a black woman, where we feel comfortable saying no.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Looking good. Now, the last time we saw one another was at the final White House ceremony. Yes. In the last. Yes. The last night. It was the last night. Was it the very last night or was it one of the last parties? I can't remember.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And I was sitting here thinking, well, why is that? And why was that for me? Because this is something that I am working on right now. You know, I, like you, I have believed in therapy my whole life. You know, done couples therapy with my husband. Both my girls are, they believe in therapy. This generation, thankfully, I think also, Our children are way more open to it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
They understand the importance of self-help and all of that. I also sort of realized that, you know, even Michelle Obama, I am still trying to tell myself that I am doing enough, right? Because there's always that feeling. I think we practice that striving because in order to be successful, I always felt like I had to be smarter, faster, work harder because somebody was going to doubt me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Somebody was already telling me why I couldn't do something before they knew me or even tried. And I don't think this is unique to just women of color. I don't think it's just unique to men. But when you get in that habit of that constant striving and constant proving that it's enough, it makes us overachievers. But You don't ever turn that off.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And at 60, I was still, I had to convince myself that I had done enough. After all that I had done in the world, I still felt a guilt, right? Struggling with like deep guilt. that maybe I needed to do a little bit more. So I'm at this stage in life where I have to define my life on my terms for the first time. So what are those terms?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And going to therapy, just to work all that out, like what happened that eight years? Mm-hmm. We were in the White House. What did that do to me internally, my soul? We made it through. We got out alive. I hope we made the country proud. My girls, thank God, are whole. But what happened to me? Right. Right? Right. And going through therapy, you know, is getting me to look at the fact that
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And maybe, maybe finally I'm good enough, right? And unlearning some of those messages that I've been saying to myself and then trying to actively practice something different to rewire those neurons in my head that make me keep pushing and keep striving. And so practicing no in a very different way intentionally.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
But then this is what makes it hard because my decision to skip the inauguration, what people don't realize, or my decision to make choices at the beginning of this year that suited me were met with such ridicule and criticism. People couldn't believe that I was saying no for any other reason that they had to assume that my marriage was falling apart. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
That was a hard thing for me to do. I had to basically trick myself out of it. And it started with not having anything to wear. I mean, I had affirmatively, because I'm always prepared for any funeral, anything. I walk around with the right dress. I travel with clothes just in case something pops off. Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
So I was like, if I'm not going to do this thing, I got to tell my team, I don't even want to have a dress ready. Yeah. Right? Because it's so easy to just say, let me do the right thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
It is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
It's that simple. And one of the ways I started thinking about this, you know, because this is the habit. It's like maybe I'm still working on being able to do things just solely for myself and being okay with that. I'm still working on it. Yeah. Through therapy and conversations like this and talking to my friends. But I'm still thinking about the example I'm setting for my daughters, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Mm-hmm. So I am trying now that they are 23 and 26 to talk to them about my menopause brain. I'm like, how old are they? Is what he's referring to. I want them to start practicing now the art of saying no. Yes. Because I see it in them, you know. Yeah. Pleasing, excelling, not wanting to take anything for granted, always showing gratitude, right? Feeling like they're enough, right? Right now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Right. It's a practice. It is. Right. It's a muscle that you have to build because if you don't constantly build it, you don't develop it. And I think we suffered because it's almost like we started training late in life to build that muscle.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Well, we are thrilled, beyond thrilled to have you here. Thank you. Let me just fangirl a little bit because I didn't get to do that at the party when I saw you, but we are huge fans. Thank you. And you, oh man, you just bring... Every part of you to the work that you do. And I will never forget my reaction.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I am just now starting to build it, right? I want our daughters. I want the young women out there. And I know we're talking about women of color, but we're talking about women and we're talking about all people who take on too much. I mean, we can identify and relate to our why as Black women. But I don't presume that other people aren't dealing with these same struggles. Oh, absolutely. Right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
So I want my girls to start practicing different strategies for saying no, right? I don't want them to, because if I'm showing up at this stage in my life and they are seeing me still wonder whether I deserve to say no, what does that teach them if I, after all that I've done in this world,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
If I'm still showing them that I have to keep, I still have to show people that I love my country, that I'm doing the right thing, that I'm always setting, going high all the time. Even in the face of a lot of hypocrisy and contradiction, right? All I'm doing is keeping that crazy bar that our mothers and grandmothers set for us. So I'm trying to teach them just like... Shantae. Shantae.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You got to start practicing your nose so you build that muscle. The sooner the better. The sooner the better. And here's the thing. What I've realized in practicing no a little bit People can handle no. They really can. They have no choice.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And we're not all that important, you know? The world doesn't stop spinning. Because I said no to your event, they usually just move on to the next thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You know? So... You know, life goes on. And if we stop carrying the load, maybe somebody, we set it down, somebody will pick it up. Absolutely.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah. It's like a second birth. Yeah. And we don't want to have to wait till we're 100. No, we don't. To do that. No, we don't. Or 61 to do it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And I know a lot of actors like you who do so many things don't want to get pigeonholed into one role. But let me just say, Cookie on Empire. I mean, I got on the phone. When you showed up on screen, because I was like, this is a real character. Yeah. I mean, this is like, I felt all of who Cookie was. And I called people on the phone. I was like, you have got to watch Empire.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
One of the things I heard about that I thought was about you, Taraji, is that you play a lot. Tell us about it. You got a playroom?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
This is a different kind of series that's coming on. And it was because of your performance. Thank you. And I... And then to see the trailer of Straw, which is the story of black women at the edge of everything. And just the trailer alone, as Craig said, brings you to tears. I guess I just want to know, where does all that come from in that little bitty body of yours? Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Remember I said at the convention, do something.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Do something.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And you know what I also want? If you're not going to therapy, then I want you to find the place where you're going to keep growing too. That, yes. And you can't grow in your own mind alone, right? So if there are issues and you see me struggling, You can't always fix my struggle, but I would want the men in their lives to take a look at themselves too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Because if we're doing all this work as women, figuring it out, going to therapy, finding our peace, trying to heal our trauma, then you got to be doing the same thing too. Because it's not just me. It's both of us. It's all of us. So I would say to the men, do the work too. And find the way to do the work in the way that you can do it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And if you can't go to therapy because you're thugging it out, then talk to somebody. Talk to each other. That would be something if that helps. And then, you know, throw a load of laundry in it, you know. Make breakfast. Yes, you know. Well, you know, I'm not, okay. If it's not you, then it doesn't apply.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And men can be vulnerable as well. Yes. Be vulnerable. Don't thug your way through everything. Yeah, right. And I think we have to rip the veil off of these conversations. Yes. And talk about what we struggle with. Talk about the help that we're getting.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
What, 30 years? How's it going? It's going well. It's going well. How are you doing? Doing well. Yeah, happy to be here with you. We've got a great show coming up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
The help you need. And we have to learn how to articulate our pain. Yes. And not be afraid to say we're hurting ourselves. That this is hard, that I'm scared, that I'm tired, you know. And then, you know, we want the men in our lives to, you know, give us a safe place to land when we do that. Right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Maybe there's nothing to fix, but maybe it's just don't make us feel like we're crazy. Right. You know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And Puppyhole is Zen.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
So, yeah. And a little birdie tells me that you are a real Housewives fan. Is that correct? Did I get that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I went to Howard University.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I love unscripted, too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Exactly.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
We have our production company, Higher Ground.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And a lot of people think that it's all presidential and we're going to do documentaries. Right. And we just came out with Unscripted Later Daters, where we-
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, yeah. So we are, it's a show that couples finds love matches for aspirational people over 50, people who look like us. Yes, yes. You know, who are looking for love. I love that. And, you know, it's got this great dating coach, this young woman, Logan Urie. And you just sort of go along that journey. We are working, I'm not trying to pump the show, but I'm just saying,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
that people didn't expect us to be doing unscripted. But it's like, well, that's my taste, right? I mean, I love those kind of shows where it's just regular people. I think that maybe that's the sociologist in me that I love watching regular- Human connection. Real interaction. Although my brother says that unscripted isn't real, you know, that real housewives ain't real.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
They're acting and we don't even care. We don't care. It's good TV.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Well, it's good, but I always say, you know, the NBA is like the real, you know, that's reality.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
But it's still drama. There's a lot of drama.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
It's real. This is real, too. These are real situations.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
There's chaos in life. There's friction. So what's your favorite franchise? My favorite? Oh, I'm kind of... You watch a little bit of all of them?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Mama D? Oh, child. Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You are lying.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
But I'm like that. I tell my husband, I was like, you watch golf? Right. I watch unscripted. Yes. Okay. Fair trade-off. And it brings me, I don't know, it just settles me down.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Literally, while I'm taking my makeup off, you're like, girl, oh, I would have, I swear to God, Let me be at that dinner. Exactly.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Be okay with disappointing people. You know, practice that disappointment and do the work of feeling good about yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
And there will, as I've discovered, there will be backlash to your no. And the guilt that comes with it. Because you've been saying yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You got to practice different messages to yourself because we have been raised with a different set of messages and that gets imprinted in you in some real ways, just like trauma and pain. All of that is... in our systems, right? And it becomes a loop, a negative loop that we can't get out of. And I think for me, I'm trying to recognize that what keeps me from my own peace sometimes is me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Most of us. Most of us. It's me practicing old messages. And so knowing that I have to affirmatively work at telling myself different things, it's a real practice. at 61 years old to reshape the way that I operate in the world has to be mindful, intentional, and done frequently. Yeah, it takes work.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Ha ha, I'm the master.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, yeah. Well, Taraji, thank you so much. You are amazing. I love you. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. You are doing it. And just know you got two fans, a whole Airbnb full of fans of folks who are rooting for you every single step of the way. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
But we are here in LA and you're doing your thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I want to know some of the why of Taraji, the real woman. Because you are doing a little bit of everything now. You are not just acting and winning awards, but you're building an empire of your own. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because you just had a major win personally on the business side, gaining more control over your own stuff. Can you talk a bit about your company?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I ran from it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You believe that. You go, oh, that must mean I can't act.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Well, and having raised my children in Washington, we've done a lot of work with the Duke Ellington School. And to put it in perspective, it's like the Whitney Young, the magnet school that I went to, you know, you know, well-funded school, you know, that just pushes out a lot of amazing artists all over the place. So I can imagine you grew up with that being your, you know. My North Star.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Well, that is, you know, a beautiful thing to have a black daddy, you know, believe in his baby so much in a very challenging and non-traditional career. Yeah. You know, what a blessing to have that man be in that wind beneath your wings.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I'm sorry to Raji. I didn't have to give it to my brother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Yeah, you're just becoming an Airbnb aficionado.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
There you go. There you go. And, you know, that's where it begins. So now you're a businesswoman. Yes. You're adding that onto your plate. Yes. But you've been doing all that and raising a strong black man. I want to know how do you manage it all?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
You seem younger than you are. That makes you more up to date than your age portends. You're living like a young person out there.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Oh, yeah. We had chores very early on. Very early on. That's another thing, I think. One of the best things that our parents did for us is... Real work.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
I cleaned the bathroom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Need to Learn to Say No (Even to an Inauguration) with Taraji P. Henson
Okay. Because I loved cleaning the bathroom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Be a Different Kind of Leader with Brian Chesky
I know. I know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Be a Different Kind of Leader with Brian Chesky
Yeah. They're not little bitty anymore.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Be a Different Kind of Leader with Brian Chesky
Here she goes. There you go. Right to the relation. Brian, you don't have to be feeling pressured.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Real work. Real work around the house. And what I mean by real work is I had... My chores were to clean the bathroom,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
What are you talking about? We alternated. We alternated weeks.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And I didn't. But I had to do it. Mom wanted us both to know how to have a clean bathroom. But my every weekend job was cleaning those stairs.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
We had 14 stairs. Notice I remember how many there were.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
That Went from our apartment down to our great-aunt Robbie's apartment. And this is what I remember about Saturday morning.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
You remember that tin pot that we used to have? We had a tin pot, a pot now that used to be on the stove, which was now used for cleaning. And you put a little soap, dish soap in it. And then you put pine salt in it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And there was nothing like that smell. Like when you came home from school and mom had been mopping and you could smell the pine salt. It was usually Monday because she had laundry on Monday. You come home from school and it smells like, ah. New house.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And I have to say that I, still to this day, when I'm mopping, if we don't have that pine oil smell...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
That's it, isn't it?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And here we are in adulthood and they're a partner of ours on this podcast.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
How about it? So when you get a chance out there, visit Pinesol.com and find out where you can shop for your Pine Sol. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. The Cologuard test is a one-of-a-kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer screening.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. When I was a coach, my players had a team of people helping them with their physical well-being. They had so many tools to make sure every member of the team was on top of their health and wellness.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
But what I want our listeners to know is that even if you eat well and have a healthy lifestyle, that does not mean you are low risk for colon cancer. The Cologuard test is the only FDA-approved, non-invasive option that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool, which can indicate the presence of abnormal cells.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
It's so fun to be with you. I'm just having a ball doing these.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
The good news is that when caught at the early stages, colon cancer is survivable in 90% of people. So screening and early detection are crucial. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, we shouldn't let our health take a backseat.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at Cologuard.com slash podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Do not use a Cologuard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes. or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraflu. As a product that was created to provide effective and comforting relief when you're fighting the flu or a cold, Theraflu firmly believes that the ability to rest and recover when sick should be a right, not a privilege.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Some tough stuff.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
You know, I think back to the time when my dad was working for the city of Chicago as a stationary fireman. And it seemed to us that he never missed work and he never got sick. But what we realized is that my dad didn't want to take his paid sick time because he wasn't sure. If he would keep his job by doing that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Yeah. And, you know, we're going to talk about people who are dealing with family members with Alzheimer's. And, you know, I was talking to the crew before we got started. And, you know, you talk about our Uncle Terry, our great Uncle Terry. And we didn't know what. Alzheimer's was or dementia or anything like that back when we were younger. But we've been fortunate.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And my sister and I realized that my dad would be sick, but he just thugged through it. It was a difficult thing for him to deal with then. And unfortunately, so many Americans still face this pressure today. 27 million Americans still lack paid sick time. which causes them to have to choose between losing a day's pay and getting the proper rest they need in order to get better.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And what's worse, this all-too-common issue disproportionately impacts lower-income individuals. Theraflu created the Rest and Recover Fund, which has committed nearly $1 million to provide microgrants to workers to help offset the financial burden of taking an unpaid sick day. It's been making a big impact and Theraflu is committed to keeping the fight going.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
As everyone deserves the right to rest and recover. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraflu.com slash right to recover. And before we get to the question, I want you to tell us about Hilarity for Charity. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
We haven't had to deal with this like some people have.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Sounds like that would keep me wide awake.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
I had a pretty good score last night. This might be a good time to hear our question from our listener because... Let's help him get some solutions. So we have Natalie, who's our producer, will read the question and then we'll... I'm sorry, Natalie, you are involved.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Coat and tie.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And how did that manifest? And actually, what were the stressors that you saw?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
He was ahead of the game. He was ahead of the game.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
He was like, I know how to work the system. You guys are messing with my system. So not from your mom, but actually from your dad. Oh, yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Yeah, we always thought it was nightmares. And we only noticed it at night because during the day, mom and dad would handle things and not worry us with it. But at night... You couldn't help it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
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Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash IMO. This episode of the IMO podcast is brought to you by BetterHelp. How many times a day do you compare yourself to others or wish your life looked like someone else's? We all do it sometimes because it's easy to envy friends' lives on social media when you only see the good parts.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
But you know what they say, comparison is the thief of joy. And in reality, nobody has it all together. Therapy can help you focus on what you want instead of what others have. Like that career goal you set your sights on. Or that relationship you want to grow. Or that daily habit you want to get into. because your best life is always better than the idea of someone else's.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
We believe in therapy at IMO, and we've seen firsthand how beneficial it is to invest in your own well-being. You know, this reminds me of my teams. When I coached back in my day, we didn't have therapists assigned to the team. And boy, it sure would have been nice to have the access to better help so I could send my players to someone who I could trust and was reputable.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
BetterHelp has experienced therapists ready to help you with challenges ranging from anxiety and relationships to stress. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. And you deserve that. It's time to stop comparing and start living with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash IMO today to get 10% off your first month.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash I-M-O. This is a really interesting point that you bring up here because for Nick, he's seeing exactly what you folks saw. How can we help him help his dad? Because I think... I mean, Hilarity for Charity, what you've been through, you guys are right at the point where you can help Nick today.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
You know, just to remind our listeners, our dad had MS and walked with a limp from the time we knew him, and it got progressively worse later. And he would limp his way downstairs and bathe Terry and shave him and get him out of bed. It got to a point where he would ask me to go down with him to help him because it was getting hard for him to do it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
I'm glad you said that, Seth, because I wanted to bring that up because so Nick's helping his dad. He's helping his mom and he's married and got kids and they're sort of going by the wayside. And I'm looking at the two of you and how you deal with it with humor and with pragmatism. And then you start this foundation. Nick doesn't have that. Any ideas for Nick that we can leave him with?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Nick should go to therapy if he's not already going to therapy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And it was really an eye-opening thing for me to see.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
So that's a terrific segue here because we'd like to give Nick something, some tips that would make the sort of, give him the power to be the best version of himself and his family. And I've just jotted down a few things you all talked about.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
So the first one is meet them where they're at.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Yeah. Slash acceptance. Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And what I love about this is we always say meet people where they're at. Yeah. Except when... They're sick.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
You know, we're always trying to fix it. So I love that. The second one I have here is care for yourself for the caregiver.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And the next one I have here is seek helpful resources. Turn to the professionals. And that goes with the next one is the family therapy, joining a support group. I think that's all one big category.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And one last thing, which you both hit on, that we experienced with our mom is what would your mom want? Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And that's something that we can all do for our family members. It doesn't have to just be children, but the people who are going to be here after we're gone. Let them know what you want. It takes the pressure off.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
I tell you what. Thank you guys for being here. This has been great. Thank you so much.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
See, I never knew that. And you're right. We have never talked about that. And, you know, I was your typical boy, so I didn't... I felt like... Mom was doing what she had to do. So whatever I wasn't getting, I sort of just thug through it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
with us today and they have some history with caring for a parent who's had alzheimer's disease and uh so i'm i'm really interested in that and for those of you who don't know uh lauren is a screenwriter producer uh director actress uh and most of all a philanthropist along with Seth.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
And Seth really doesn't need any introduction, but he's also a fine actor and a funny person and writer, screenwriter, producer, director. But I want to welcome our guests, Lauren and Seth Rogen. Come on out, gang.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
How are you, Michelle?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
So happy you're here. It's so nice to meet you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
We have not officially
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Good. We're back at our nice Airbnb taping out here on the West Coast.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
So how are you guys?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
I know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
In the Midwest, it was, we had our coldest time. And it hit down into the 30s, which isn't that cold for us, but it's cold.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Yeah, you said it to Seth.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
I'm kind of a wimp. Yeah, you have. Yeah, people who live in the Midwest don't know D.C. is warm most of the time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
Well, another story I think about is, how mom and dad trained us to work hard. Do you remember the chores?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You know, it's sort of innocently sweet and it's not so hard over the head. Like, can you stand alone in a room? That's why I like the question because I would ask that all wrong.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And that's different. I don't know that we're going to lose that. I think women, we're used to having a say in our lives. And I don't know whether the whole movement is about sort of re-harnessing us. Is it really about reproductive rights? Can that really work now that women are educated and educated? And we're being raised differently.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I mean, the truth is, is that men, fathers are modernized, right? I mean- Mostly. Mostly they are, you know? And if you were to ask the average man, how are you raising your daughter? Because you love her. The average father that loves their daughter wants them to be excellent, you know? And they want them to have opportunity and freedom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Still happy with your situation?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I mean, when you think about who... You don't want your daughter saddle marrying some guy that chose her because he just didn't think about anything else and was ready at the time. And who believes that her body is his choice. Exactly. So I don't think a lot of leaders are thinking about that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Just to stay in your Airbnb house?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
This is what I'm saying. Tales from Tracy's... It's fun.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
What century are you? Like, oh my God. Where's your horse and buggy?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And your bedpan.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, your chamber pot.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Why does she have laundry? How long has she been here?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
But it's just, I just love watching your life because you were modeling so many things, the next phase, how many versions of ourselves we can become at all ages in life, you know, and how to build the life you want. Yeah. Not the life that somebody told you you were supposed to have. And let me tell you, I have, I told you this about the girls and Tracy, just like, you know, she mentors the girls.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
She's always there for them. But trying to get, trying to make sure that I am not subconsciously sending them these messages about what their life should look like. Even like when you ask, are you dating anyone? I mean, that's something that we ask. young people in their 20s, you know? The whole thing about weddings, you know? We talk a lot about that. Yeah, it's just like...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Oh, okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
the pre-proposal and the bachelorette and the pre-honeymoon and then the three wedding dresses and, you know, have you thought about your 32 list items of who you want to marry? Or are you more busy planning, picking out your photographer?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Are you so insecure that you can't handle a strong woman?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I'm learning a lot about the Airbnb life since we don't do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
But the girls do. Malia and Sasha, whenever they're traveling.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah. And it's interesting coming from a 40-ish man.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Because men can marry when they choose to, just like you did.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Which is crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. It's so crazy. It is crazy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
For some people, they don't. I know. They never figure it out. I know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
It's really a different intergenerational use. I mean, young people, they like being in a home. Well, a lot of times when they're traveling, they're sharing with their friends. They're dividing up a house and, you know, so.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of it is cultural, right? We grow up waiting to be chosen, you know? At the school dance, you don't get to dance. Or at least in our generation, you didn't get to dance if somebody didn't ask you to dance. And then if you are the chooser, then men are like, you're aggressive. Oh, my gosh. There wasn't any choosing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
That's why you're here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, but there are a lot of kids going, what is that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, the courage. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
It's an important perspective for sure.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And it is hard. But ultimately, you choose, right? It's scary, but, you know... So imagine the girl who is standing in the same sock hop with her shoes off now, all embarrassed because she's standing in her socks. See what I have to put up with. I have four siblings. Waiting to be asked and... People are just passing her by, you know, and they're a bunch of shy boys not even trying.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Whereas a guy can decide that the decision is still a man's to make. Is it though always?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I think culturally, that's what I was saying. The original question was, is it nature or nurture? I think a lot of it is the culture. Yes. Yeah, that gives that power. I agree. To men. Now, it's a difficult power to have because with power comes responsibility and hurt and risk and all that. But even to this day, as you said, Tracy, if a woman crosses that threshold,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
dance floor to ask, she's aggressive. It's an unattractive quality. So now I either wait to dance or I don't dance at all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And it's interesting when I think to your point, Craig, when you had your 32 list item, that was all about Kelly, right? I mean, and that's sometimes what we do. Forget you. I think that's what a lot of people do. It's like there's a list of things that I need in the other person. Right. And a lot of them are superficial, like height and career and income and what school you went to, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
That's right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
But it's all about the other person meeting a checklist. Mm-hmm. What Ronan's friends are suggesting and what I agree on is like, okay, there's that list about the other person, but what's your list? What is your 32-point list about yourself that you need to explore? And I think a lot of men, and I hate to generalize like that, but you know... So many women are self-reflective in our groups.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
We live in conversation. We live in a social world where we're constantly analyzing ourselves and each other in our conversations. This is the dialogue of women. And men aren't doing that as much. I think the younger generation is doing it more.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Well, it sounds like it'd be a good girls trip, a friend gathering session or, you know, a little... But anyway, well, I'm glad you are comfortable in your Airbnb, mister. So you'll never stay with me ever again, I guess.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Well, you know, just like in developing your life when I talk to young people, it's like, who do you want to be? What do you care about? And not what do you want to do, not what title you want to have, but how do you want to show up in the world? What's important to you? Is it kindness? Is it empathy? Is it money? Is it money? Yeah, for some people, it is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
For some people, it's security, financial security. Some, it's emotional security. Is it important for honesty? For me, for example, I knew that You know, you date enough people, you date people that just cheat, right? And one thing I learned, luckily I learned it soon, I realized that cheating, if I was dating a cheater, that had nothing to do with me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You know, because I am not inherently a cheater or a liar. I mean, I would never... I would rather just look somebody in the face and say, we should break up because I'm thinking about dating somebody else. And I'm not going to hold you hostage while I go experience stuff. So I had to pick somebody who had the same values about that as I do, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I didn't want to be married or date somebody that I have to worry about who you text in. What's on your phone? Where did you go? That trust is not an anchor. That trust is not there. And because it was important to them, not because it was important to me. But they were the same. That they had the same quality, you know. That was way more important to me than what career, what, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Because I had dated people who were broken, in my opinion, broken in that way. And it's like, that's not fun to me, you know, guessing whether my partner is faithful or not. Like, some people are good with that game.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I don't know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Have we been displaced?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Oh, good.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, but that could be timing. That could be timing. That could be him. You know, that could be him just not choosing. He may not be ready to really settle down.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Would I mess up your mojo if I showed up with my motorcade in your house driving up the driveway?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I don't know. You know what I mean? Well, this program, it's in my opinion. You don't have to know. We just have our deeply held opinions about Ronan's life. Exactly. But this is what I'm saying. I...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
It might not mess up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
See, I'm all like, that's so true. Crazy like that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Maybe I'll stop by and see all your mini pools in your house.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Well, I think that's really great, solid advice. I think there are a lot of people who put too much pressure on trying to find everything in one person. I don't know if that's Ronan's issue, but if it is, I'd encourage him to be a little more open and to understand that relationships are long and there are also ebbs and flows, right? So I think sometimes people who date don't realize that
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Well, what are we talking about today?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You know, in long-term relationships, you're going to have deep, deep dips. And you're going to have peaks. You're going to have a bad year. You're going to have a bad— I tell people, and folks think that this is harsh, it's like you're going to have a bad decade. Yeah. You know? I mean, I've been married to my husband for 30-plus years.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I mean, the truth is, if you add it all up, even the year— Yeah. If the odds were you're going to be married to your partner for 50 years, and 10 of those years could be bad, you know? Yeah. That's... You'd sign up for it. You'd sign up for it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And that's really how it works out.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
The reality is that if you choose to have a traditional marriage and you have kids, let me tell you, the years of 1 to 13 will be bad for you as an adult... You know, because it's beautiful, but they'll... Yeah. They'll take you for a loop and you love them and you don't want to hate them because they're cute. So you're going to be mad at the person who is sitting next to you, the other adult.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I love talking about dating because I haven't done it in decades.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
The one who helped you make it. The one who helped you make it. You know, so that accounts for just a decade, right? I think people... don't think about that as they date because they're trying to find the match that where all those 30 years are going to be blissful.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And it's like, that's just not going to happen.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yes, you can.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Do I say that again?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
We're not going to be couple to couple.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I love that question. So that was her question to you or your question to her?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yes. Look out, Mr. Whoever you are.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And I will tell you, this was a— I just like the way you put it, though, because, you know, it's sort of innocently sweet, and it's not so hard over the head. Like, can you stand alone in a room? That's why I like the question, because I would ask that all wrong.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
That's just the thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Are you so insecure that you can't handle a strong woman?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
That's right. I would ask it all wrong.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I felt like I was way more in your business and I kept my business to myself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Tracy, I think that's a good point for everyone. Are people dating with intentionality, you know, to learn something, right? Or are people just out there? And if you're not reflecting on why you picked somebody, you know, why the dinner went well, you know, why you laughed. And it is just happening to you without, you know, for men and women, for anybody of any sexual preference.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
It's like doing some self-assessment through the process. I would encourage, you know, because we're not taught to do that either in dating. I agree. Did he call again? Exactly. You know, where did you go? Where did he take you? What does he do? Right. Are we asking questions of how do you feel? Why did you feel that way? Why did this relationship end?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I think that may be what Ronan's friends are suggesting. And he can do that and he can do both. Yes, he can. He can date but be more reflective about the process. And I think that's true for everyone. Yeah. If you want to have a partner, you've got to know yourself. It's dating and having an internal conversation about why you're wise, your motivations, your history, your fears.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
What are you mimicking? Like Craig, you were imitating what you thought your mom and dad had. And you did that more than me. I was more like, I don't know if I want to be like them. You know, love them, love their marriage. But I didn't date for I want to do what my mom and dad did. And I think, Craig, you were more that kind of this is the way it works.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I don't want any, I want this generation of young people to be more thoughtful.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
With you and these sports, it's like spending too much time in the gym.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And it's not always a deal breaker. It's just something to be aware of because it will be a thing that you will need to work on in the relationship. That's what makes relationship, marriage, partnership so hard because you are taking two independent people with a whole different set of experiences and saying forever and ever, amen. Marriage is hard. Yeah. And it is reasonably hard.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
The right kind of hard. It's the right kind of hard, but don't get upset.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And it's important for Ronan to understand that it's work.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Because sometimes maybe for men or if they can be choosers or people in general, they think Something, there's something wrong in the dating process. And it's like, nah, it's just, you know, what it means to be with somebody else. Yeah. It's complicated. It's hard. It requires compromise. It requires you to change and adapt all throughout the process.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You know, you can't just come in and say, well, this is who I am, you know, and this is these are my habits. So some of the list is important. But when you couple, you will not be able to find the exact right person who just balances you on all those 32 points. It's just, you know, then you will be alone. And that's OK, too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And that won't be fun because you'll find out all the worst parts of yourself and you will be divorced from yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
But it's interesting because, all right, so the benefits of being the sister of a guy who plays sports, which is one of the reasons why I enjoyed going to your games, is like most of the guys I dated, Were on the JV team. So me and my friends, we'd show up at the gate.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Or to know that it's something, it's an important muscle to build.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And I'm going to... You're the master.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You take away.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And I have one last thing. It's… And there's no one right way to live a life. Maybe, Ronan, you don't choose a life partner, or it doesn't happen, or you don't find it. There's so many ways to be happy, and it doesn't just look like marriage, two kids, and a house. There's so many examples of people who live full, wonderful lives that aren't following the quote unquote traditional path.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And I just want Ronan not to force something that isn't there. Yeah. It's like stars aligning. It may not happen. So now the work is how are you happy with the life that's right before you? That's what I want for my daughters.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
That's what I'm raising them to be is like, how are you happy with how life is working out right at this moment so that you're not living in regret or living in I wish or holding up your life, you know? So when you're waiting for it to happen, you know, in the meantime, Ronan, live. Yeah. Live, grow, adapt for your own self.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
So I don't know why you couldn't find a date because I think my first several boyfriends were your teammates or they were younger on the JV team.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
This was so nice of you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, your vulnerability, your willingness to share, be open, always refreshing. Thanks. So, see ya. That's my currency. That's what you get. You do it. You use it well. Thanks so much.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Because that was always an important test was, well, what do you think about them as a teammate? First of all, are they good at basketball? So I generally only dated the people that you said were actually good. Also, you had this theory about knowing a person by their on-the-court behavior.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I've had many a long-term boyfriend. Oh, my gosh. See what I had to go through. You didn't even want to call my boyfriends boyfriends. None of those guys.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And... What did you learn about him?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I'm doing great. Yeah, feeling good. Another day. Alive. We're getting to that age where, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, but you, you know, you're just an all-around nice guy. You weren't shy, but you definitely weren't, you didn't, you didn't have some lines. And I think that that's what we wound up talking about. It's like, you gotta, you know, you gotta get your game on. Yeah, you did say that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
So, you know, I think the politeness of you, you had to wait to hear that somebody had a crush on you or was interested in you. I think you never assumed that
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah. And for your friends at this stage in life, forget high school, college, because you're just doing what you're doing then. Yeah. How do you think your friends think about you? Selecting, dating.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I'm just, just blessed to have woken up. You don't think we're at that age? You're older than me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I don't know if it'll just be between you and me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah. It's like musical chairs.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Just like, okay, the music stopped. I'm sitting on your lap. I love you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
We're in our 60s, my friend.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I think that would have been a reasonable thing to think. I was burned. That's how women are. You go from like, I didn't ask any questions. I was just ready to get married to a list of 105 steps before. But that, well, it worked.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
She's just so sweet.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
But, you know, we're at the age now where, you know, it's not so tragic.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I'm sorry.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Tracy! How are you?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
Yeah, I know. It's got to be a different measure now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You know, I made Brock put his basketball shoes up once he got his lip busted when he was in the White House playing a pickup game. Yeah, and I don't think many people realize this because he was definitely in shape, athletic. And I remember because you were at that pickup game.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I did. I did. I, you know, the girls came over for dinner and I was so tired that I left them at the table, which is unusual because I love hanging out with my girls, but I was that sleepy. I was like, you know what? Mom's going to bed. You can sit here and talk to your dad. But yeah, I got to bed early and had plenty of sleep. How's your Airbnb feeling?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
And I'm in the White House, actually in the doctor's office, getting an exam. So they're playing in one of the admin gyms, and we get the call. We hear that the agents are like, you know... There's blood. Renegades coming back. There's been an accident, you know. And I'm like, ugh. Because I'm always like, be careful playing basketball. You shouldn't be playing now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
You now have a real important job. Yeah, people are depending on you. Right, you know. And literally, he's coming in with a, you know, a gauze thing on his... Oh my God. He didn't need stitches or anything. He needed like 30 something stitches. I mean, his lip was, I saw it. It was like, he took the thing away and I was like, your lip. And he had some major speech. This was probably Saturday.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
He had some major speech on Monday. And I was like, this is what I'm saying. You know, you're playing like you're 10 and now your lip is split. So we digress. No, no, no, no longer can we, are we dating people? No, but I am. I was about to say, I was like, Tracy, Tracy's, you know, my girl. I mean, the tales from the road. And I do bring- I bring stories home. She's got stories.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I'm like, what's happened in the last several months? And it's always eventful.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
That's just the thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
I didn't mean that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Dating Should Be about Pursuing Joy with Tracee Ellis Ross
More open than it should. Yes. Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Uh-huh.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
You may not know. Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Yeah, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Mm-hmm. You're so right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
It really is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
No, they're not.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Really?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Me too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
That's right. They would not.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
“Success” Looks Different for Every Family with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
That's right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Like the crisis would require an emergency session.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You know, I just, I can speak for me, but female friendships are complicated because we are, we go there. We are, you know, we, and we spend so much time playing out the sociology. I think women, and I don't want to generalize, but women more so, we are sociologists. I just find the interpersonal connection interactions of everyone, especially my friends, are fascinating to me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
So when I'm with my friends, and this was true at all levels, we're never just going to throw a ball. You know, we're not just trying to finish a game. It's like, I want to know why, how, tell me more. What did that... Well, let's talk about that a little bit more. And in the process of that, you know each other inside and out, which is why some of these hurts... why it hurts so much. Absolutely.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Because, you know, and not every woman does this, but I know my friendships, all of them are deep and meaningful and they don't always last. But because of that, you don't end it without the hurt. You know, it is complicated.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
No, no, I'm starting to drive. Really? Yeah, I can drive.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Well, I didn't realize he didn't feel comfortable. And just to remind folks, our dad was a blue collar worker. He worked as a stationary fireman for the water filtration plant for the city of Chicago. So he was a shift worker. But what I remember is that Our dad never—I can't remember him ever taking a sick day or a day off other than his assigned vacation days. Never. And I didn't know why.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I just thought, you know, he just had a great work ethic, which I think he did.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You could take me for a spin.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Well, our father had— multiple sclerosis. So I would imagine there were days that he woke up and he probably felt tired. He probably felt a level of exhaustion that came with the disease, but he just pushed through.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Like too many folks in this country.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Don't you remember when I came to visit you in Milwaukee and the boys wanted me to pick them up from school? Yes. And we did.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
In a motorcade in the pickup line. They were just like, niche. I was like, yeah, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Four SUVs deep. That was so much fun. I'm sure their friends were like, what the heck?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
The biggest hurts that I've had in friendships, and hurts is strong, when I didn't feel like there was emotional reciprocity.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
right because you know the imbalance that she talks about that's you know that's that that's always present right you know someone in every relationship is given a little more given less you know some people have more or less at a given time i mean people are complicated and and flawed and all of us are That has never been a problem for me, like the complicated nature of my friends, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
When I felt most, almost betrayed is when I felt like We're all at the table, giving, sharing, and you weren't. You were at the table. But it's sort of like, it wouldn't be, you know, probably one of the reasons when he went through his divorce, his first marriage, I didn't know what he was going through. There probably felt like a little emotional gap.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I felt emotionally robbed because it was like, you weren't telling me. You weren't telling me. And maybe it's because you didn't trust me. You didn't trust yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
But I'm just using it as an example in the table of... For me, at least, that becomes more important. And maybe it's because of who I am and trust. And I let people in. So when I let people in, you're in. And I don't have the time or the energy to have to second guess what I say to you or how I feel. I want to be at the table with my friends completely myself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I'm like, get in. And don't touch the guns. I do remember that. Oh, my goodness. But so we're talking about friendship today. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
But that means I'm assuming you are too. And if you're not, and in the case of Eva, maybe her friend didn't feel like she was fully there. That's so complicated.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Or like, you're always at my house and I'm never at yours. Yeah. I mean, that... That's a problem. I don't mind hosting. I don't mind being... Because oftentimes in my friend group, I am the one with tickets.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I have the resources. I've got the... I have more of the special... Oh, guess what we can do? And there's a natural imbalance, but it's like... You if you never invite me on a trip, even if I can't go or if you never plan a dinner or whatever, even if it's just pizza.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
So what's your version of balanced in friendship?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yeah, I agree. That's equivalency to me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yep, because it couldn't happen before then.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Two Capricorns. Let's do it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Or did you bring up, we're having problems and let's talk about... Or did you wait until... Like I said at the outset, I waited until it was... So you didn't go deep.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Just the mere fact that you told somebody... The obvious. You told your friends that it happened. That it happened. That it's happening. That it's happening.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Like the little, little, I don't keep up, don't get a chance to keep up with the folks from little, little time. Although, as folks know, mom recently passed and A lot of people came to the funeral. They did, right. And two of my girl girls from grammar school, the Gores, Pam and Nikki, and they had a little sister, Gina, but they came to the funeral. And it was funny.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
It's sort of right. We would have been, but you do what your family needs at the time. There's no way we wouldn't have gone through a recovery of things. It would just have been good to know that before it was like, everything's great and now everything is over. That's how we found out.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
They found out. So it was like, what? How did, you know, the sharpness of it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
But the thing that I like is that you did go deep with your friends. That's why I think we were confused because it sounded like you did to them what you did to us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Okay, well that, but that's, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
But I find that in my friends, we always go in deep.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yeah, and I think Eva's asking, am I a bad friend, right? I mean, I think this situation is worth giving her some pause, you know, with maybe the other friends she is close with in real time. Yeah. If she does have those, and, you know, and this is what women do. Like, this would have happened to me in one friendship, and I would have gone to a set of friends to say, hey—
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Hey, this is what happened to me. Am I messing up here? Am I wrong? Right. And the crew would be they would dissect it. They would be IMO in real time, you know. And I think, you know, with what I know, what we understand from this letter, I would tell Eva, yeah, girl, you do need to think a little bit, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Think a little bit because it, you know, for somebody to go through something tragic and then in their letter with, I think this friendship is over because it's not giving me enough in this particular situation, she probably would check herself to say, you're right. I wasn't fully in this. I was ambivalent and I thought it was okay for me to be ambivalent here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
because it didn't mean the same thing to Eva as it did to her friend.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
We got a quick second to talk, but it was almost like I hadn't... I hadn't missed a minute with them. So we vowed to keep in touch. But outside of childhood, I can say that I have at least... Almost at least one good friend or more from every aspect of my life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
But that's also part of friendship. Right. Because, you know, like you said, if you're honest, if your friends know who you are, if there's some transparency there, you know, I have friends like that in times when I've been that friend. And the hope is that people will be like, girl, she must be going through something, you know, or she's busy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Or, you know, and that's when you feel the security of friendship because you can completely show up as yourself, flaws and all. The inconsiderate or the, you know, you got your friend group and it's like, well, Issa's not going to be the one to call because she just doesn't do that. You know, I'm not a great, you know, I don't call on a regular basis, but I tend to organize my friends.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
For the same. Like, I'm the one that's like, okay, let's think about this. Or, you know, everybody come visit me here. And that was because of eight years also. I mean, you know, it was hard to reach me for eight years without a whole lot of goings on. And in order for me to maintain my friendships, I had to be more deliberate.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And over the years, I've become the more deliberate one. And also because of who I am, I think people just assume I don't want to bother you. Yeah, same. You know, because I'm not going to bring these problems. I've had so many of my good friends who went through stuff, and I'm like, you didn't tell me? No, I didn't want to bother you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
So that means I often have to bend over even more to check in so people know that when things are tough, do not not call me. Because I may not be able to do anything. Because now I'm mad. It's like, now I'm mad at you for that. I don't care that you're going through it. I'm mad at you. Right, right. But you were going to say something before I cut you off.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
It wouldn't have lasted. You know, Capricorns, we get mad, but we don't say that. No, absolutely not.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
So what I found is like one of, you know, my best friend, roommate, who you know, Angela from Princeton. She was my roommate. She's my girl. Always talked to her from law school. My friend Verna just went to her house for lunch yesterday. Just the other day, she's in D.C., you know, and then they're my mom friends because as I got married. But then even before that, that was Pam.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Was it an inquiry? Yeah. It was.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
She was more my professional friend when I was when when we were grownups and had jobs at law firms. And, you know, I could go on and on like that. And the other thing I made a point of, because one of the things that you said when Barack won and we got to the White House. You know, one of the things you were like, no new friends, that's it. And I was like, ah, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
No more questions. No more questions. No more questions. No more problems. That's it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And you need it too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I call that the slow ghost.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
It's not enough to have a conversation with because, you know, do you really care? So you go through the emotional energy. You just sort of, you know, let it die a natural, quiet death.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yeah, you were kind of joking, but it was important for me in the normalcy of my life to be able to, or to keep my life normal, even in those unusual circumstances, to continue to expand my friendships. So that's a long answer to say, yeah, I do. I keep making friends and I keep up with my friends. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
It's not an emotional fight? There's no, I mean, I'm just like, I know his friends. It's like, there's just, there's not a lot going on.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Like somebody's on a train.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I just think it goes back to the level, you know, and again, this isn't true for everyone, but even just watching my brother, it's like, you know, your friends sort of hover around the surface and it's real meaningful friendships, but they're just not as deep as the friendships I see among women.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yeah, yeah, you know. It's true. People show up, go to the funeral, you know, all of that sort of stuff.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Because that's what a crisis is for these superficial friendships. It's got to be like a thing that happens.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And a crisis for women is just like, you know. Every day. Don't do us like that. You know. Oh, man. I'm going to get it when I get home. I'll give you an example. Because my husband doesn't fully understand it. And he's got great friends. Friends that he has since high school. I know his friends. Meaningful. But when a girlfriend comes to visit, it's usually like...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You've got to stay for two days because it's going to take us two days to check up, right? And we're not planning anything. We're going to sit right here and we will be here. Too many rules. No, but it's not even a rule.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And this is what it's going to take.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
So I'll have one of my good girlfriends over, spending the night. Friends with Barack, love, love, all that. We sit on a couch. There's something in front of us, tea, crackers, moved a wine, you know. But we get up at 10 a.m. and we start the check-in. That sounds beautiful. And it begins with, first of all, girl, how you doing? You know, tell me about you now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And that's an hour just sort of emotionally, mentally checking in. Right. Hour two is like, OK, what about work? And tell me about because we know all about it. Remember that HR person you were going to let go? What happened with that girl? She's still there. Oh, man. What does she do next? And then you got to give an example of what she did. Now it's lunchtime. Right. On day one.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Now, Barack has come in, he's come out, and he's like, y'all still talking? He'll sit down for five minutes and be like, how are the boys? And then he gets up and leaves. You contributed nothing. You just interrupted the time. And then it's 3 o'clock, and he's like, y'all still here? And it's like, we're just now getting on the kids. And with one girlfriend, we each have two kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
That's four kids. That's like an hour per kid. Oh, my gosh.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's 48 hours because each kid has, you know, we know the issues and the things we've, you know, now we're at dinner on day one, right? So this is what I'm saying. And my husband is like, how, what are you all talking about all day? And it's like, we're not eating. We're just scratching the surface.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And the flip side of my husband, right? Because he golfs. And golfing takes as long as the first session of our, you know, it takes five hours to golf. He'll golf with his buddies, come back and be like, how's X? He's good. He's like, what y'all talk about? Yeah. Nothing. And I was like, I will have heard like somebody has cancer. And I was like, how is X? Did you hear that they had cancer?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
He's like, no, we didn't talk about that. And I'm just like, what? You were golfing all day.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And it never came up. You never asked about our God's son. For example, you're with his father. How is he? I don't know. I think he's good. It's like, what were you all doing? Sitting in a cart? Talking about, you know, and I'm like, literally nothing. You don't have no information. And that's the difference.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
What do you mean by that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Because you'll be with each other all day looking directly away from each other at a ball. Right. Whereas when I'm with my friends, we are turned, we are physically turned in towards one another. Feet off comfort. Sometimes we're tough. You know, their tears. It's like, and that can go on for hours.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And once you do that, then your feelings are going to be hurt when you break up or somebody's going to get mad.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Okay. I don't know how you get anything out of sitting in a chair for dinner.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
We do. Like, the crisis would require an emergency session. Oh, my God. Like, somebody's on a train. Yeah, flying. You know, there's movement. And you're not going to deal with a crisis. Yeah, I was like, we're coming. We're coming. It's a crisis. My friend's dog died.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You're so disconnected from feelings. I don't know what they are, but I'm 60. So I don't know. But for your generation of emotions, you don't even know what fire is for. So why do we have emotion OGs? They're literal. It's like hot dog. I'm hungry. I want lunch. Fire is like.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Oh, yeah. I forgot about Eva.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Well, she lost the friend. I know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
So, yeah, it's fair to set boundaries, but I think it starts with knowing, well, who do you want to be? How do you want to show up? You know, and the honesty first has to be within yourself. You know, I mean, I think both of us probably as Capricorns, we're probably a little more honest about who we are, what we want.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And, you know, and even though women talk a lot, sometimes we don't, you know, we don't spend that time because we're pouring that energy out. Like, I understand you before I understand me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yes. Yes. And that's the nature of, you know... A lot of times women are giving or, you know, without opening themselves up because that's hard, you know. And maybe what I would say to Eva is maybe it's time for her to just, she's asking, do some personal reflection about what does she want in friendship and how does she want to show up How does she want to show up?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Because if she's a loner and is somebody who doesn't want high-maintenance friendships, she's at the age where it's okay for her to own that about herself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Would you just make a friend? It's like, okay, let's be friends. Come to the game with me. But guys do that. That's why y'all are broken.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Right. Or, you know, be okay. Then understand that there will be times that she will get that response from friends. It's like, I thought we were this and we're not. You hurt my feelings and it's over. Right? And not take it to heart.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
if that's the kind of friend you are, because that's where you are in life, but if you don't want that to happen again, if that really does bother you, then you gotta take stock about how you need to show up for people.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
and what's what's an example of that how showing up is that just i hear i hear communication yeah yeah but understanding who your friend is and what they need okay like you know being a little more considerate about the other person and what they need and you know just like you do with a loved one you have to do in any relationship sometimes you do what they need even if it's not what you need and with friends
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You don't have to do it every day like you do for your partner, your life partner, but you do have to be aware, you know, and show up every now and then. And it sounds like Eva may not have shown up at all for this friend. And so you gotta, you know, you're gonna have to give people what they need at some point to get what you need. It's like friendship language.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
What's your friend's friendship language? Is it time? Is it crisis management? Is it, you know, is it acts of service? Is it brutal honesty? Is it emotional vulnerability? I would say that that's my friendship language. I value people's honest emotional vulnerability. That means a lot to me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And how old is Eva again?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Is that what meant? Y'all scared?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
No. And it's going to whittle even more. You know, if she chooses to partner and have kids, it changes. And I think that's also what I would say to Eva. It's like, this is life. Yeah. You know, and like she said in her letter, friends aren't family. And sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not. There are seasons for friends. And who knows, in their 40s or 50s, they may reconnect.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I don't want my feelings hurt, so I can't know you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Well, and that's what her friend essentially did, you know. But her friend did it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
It sounds like she's in contemplation about it. About fighting for it? Or letting it go. It feels like she's let it go. It feels like she didn't fight for it. But I don't think we have that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And also, you know, be easy on yourself. You're 32. This is how it goes. You know, people come, people go. You know, even hurts can be healed because, you know, who knows where you'll be when you're 50. You know, life is long and friendships last. have ebbs and flows.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
And in the meantime, what I would tell her is use this as an opportunity since you're bothered by it to figure out how you can grow.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Get a guy friend. And don't worry, you don't have to even know if he has a dog.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
No, for real. You'll be good, girl. You'll be all right. This is how, as you said, the cookie crumbles. Life is like this. But this has been fun. Yeah, this is so fun.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
That's because y'all don't talk about nothing. Well, we don't.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Deathbed. It's like, whoo.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Bubba, I wish I had asked him about his family.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
It's already. And then there's some tragedy. It's like, why didn't you say anything?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
We have company.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Giving it back.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Watch him. Watch him. I'm just meeting her for the first time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Welcome to the table.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You know, there's movement.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I'm a Capricorn. Like me, 17. Yes, you already know. 12th over here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Hey. Well, hi again, you. It's you again. Oh, I like your... Is that pink?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Man. Doing it with your little baby boss self.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
I wanted to find out. Go ahead. As we talk about friendships, and we will eventually read a letter from one of our listeners who's seeking advice around friendships. But something people ask me, which applies to you, is that as you've become Issa Rae, you know, how has that affected friendships for you or has it, you know, have you become more cautious?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Have you, have people come in and out of your life? Have you thought about it differently or felt like you needed to think about friendships differently given your, you know, your ascent and who you become?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yeah, it is coral. And it's a little pleated. This is breaking out of the, you know, basketball thing. Watch out now. And that little collar. Okay, I see you, Craig Robinson.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
Yeah, I was like, we're coming. We're coming. It's a crisis. My friend's dog died.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae
You know, you don't even need much closet space, but you're stepping out. You're stepping out. Thank you. What's new and exciting?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
A lot of people have questions they want to know, especially when they see somebody of note with a platform who, you know, by every measure looks successful. The first question is how? I think this podcast, first and foremost, gives us an opportunity to hear from folks.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You don't want them to get a not so great grade on their project that you start stepping in and facilitating way more and not letting kids hit bumps. You're delaying their, I think, their ability to understand that their lives are theirs. And you also are sending them a subliminal message that they're not capable.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I know, really. But our dynamic is so, in my view, unique. I think there are plenty of siblings who have great relationships. But I think when we think back to where that came from, I think about just the physical closeness that we had. I mean, we weren't wealthy. Right. And- Dad was working class. We lived in the same apartment our whole lives and had to grow into that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Mom and dad didn't do that to us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
But I started thinking, too. I was just thinking of another story. We're flip-flopping around. But when I think about our relationship... The other thing that I liked and I try to do with my kids is we were close. We were close physically, emotionally, all of that, but we were not codependent.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And we weren't allowed to be. Right. Because you were a nurturer, you were a natural on your own, a worrier, a guardian, you took on just temperamentally extra worries and responsibilities.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Mom understood that she couldn't in any way imply to you that you were responsible for me because you would have taken that on and gone off the deep end with it. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
In grammar school. And I think that's another thing sometimes parents do with siblings. Like you make one responsible for the other. Mm-hmm. Now you've got a kid trying to be a parent. Mm-hmm. And that leads to nothing but resentment on both parts. If you were trying to parent me, that would have replaced the special relationship that is my brother. Yeah. Which is something very different.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I didn't need a father. I didn't need a mother. I needed a big brother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And so you were fully free to be that for me. And I wasn't your burden.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Oh, yeah. We had chores very early on. Very early on. That's another thing, I think. One of the best things that our parents did for us is... Real work. Real work.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
clean the bathroom?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
We alternated.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Okay, because I loved cleaning the bathroom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Oh, that's right, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah, you had to, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Ooh, nothing like pine salt.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
That's it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
That's it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, an appropriate partner.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And as a result, you and me, we were physically close growing up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Of course, that was our life growing up. We shared the same room until you went to high school, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Oh, yeah, that's right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, let's first just recall how small the apartment we lived in. It seemed like it was huge, but it was essentially two bedrooms. Right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, because it was also interesting because I could see that something was going on, that there was a disconnect because we were close. I mean, we had our periods in life where we would come together, be apart. Life would bring us together. We wound up going to the same college. We didn't go to the same high school because... You went to an all-boys school and I went to a magnet high school.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
It wasn't. You probably would have gone, but it was a brand new school. And because you were a student athlete, you needed a good solid basketball program and they hadn't developed it at Whitney Young. So we weren't in the same high school. And that was a good thing because we had times in our lives when we were in the same school, sort of in the same orbit, and then we weren't.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And then I followed you to Princeton, where you were two years ahead of me and big man on campus there too, because he was all Ivy on the basketball team and all this sort of stuff. So everybody knew Craig. I was always Craig Robinson's little sister. I'm really enjoying the payback of Craig Robinson now being Michelle Obama's brother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, that little offshoot bedroom that mom and dad stayed in, you would consider that a bedroom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Wow. But I grew up as Craig's little sister. It's like, oh, you Craig's little sister. I was like, yeah, yeah. But I do other things too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Much more fun. But even in those moments when we were in the same orbit, we were close. But again, in the same way, not overly dependent. We had our own friends. We had, you know, you'd know if I was dating somebody. Because that was the other thing. Dating like big men on campus in college. I think you scared off a lot of potential.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yes, I did. I think people didn't want to piss off Craig.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Your presence.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And then you graduate, then you go off and you play basketball. You have a whole nother experience. You move to Manchester, England and play in Europe for a couple of years. And so you're coming and going, and then you get married. And I was very close with you and your first wife. We were not inseparable, but it was a close family. We did things together. And then...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Avery was born and we were always right there. We were very tight knit family. And then I met Barack and, you know, then we got married and we bought a condo right down the street from your condo.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Three buildings down in Hyde Park in Chicago. So that was a period when we were around each other a lot. And when you say, See your brother and you think his or your sibling or somebody you care about and you think everything is good, you know, and you're rooting for them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And then you learn that things are falling apart because you think, I thought I saw some things that were red flags, but I would always be like, how you doing? And your reply would be, we're great. We're good.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Fine. And after that, once it all unraveled, I said, your definition of fine. I was like, don't ever tell me that you're good because I'm not going to trust that. Because it would have been like, even though you think I wouldn't have been able to handle it, I would have gotten myself together to give you sound advice and be able to stay neutral. But I felt like,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
The dude I depend on the most, who I could tell anything, didn't feel like he could come to me when he was dealing with something really hard in his life, which is his marriage falling apart.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Huh. Okay. All right. So that's how small it was. That's how small it was, yes. We had to turn it into something else. But the biggest room was always ours. Yes. And we were little, little, like baby littles.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, we're going to be taking, you know, questions from listeners who are going through some things and just need a little advice. They want to hear from people in conversations. And folks are looking for a place where they can just... They can hear stories, you know? I mean, what I realize is like by sharing some of these stories, you know, it always taps into something from somebody else.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Oh, yes. You needed help.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Because he was just, he was on the court and he hadn't learned like some basic moves. So it's like, dude, your first dance, you got to. So we put on the record player and I gave you a couple moves that you are still doing to this day.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
That's all you got. It's good though.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
It's basically saying, I'm going to go from being a millionaire to working for nothing, which seemed to be our overall MO, both you and me. But yeah, that was a big leap to walk away from a very secure, lucrative career and pursue something that you love.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
The twin beds were head to head with like an end table in between. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Because dad had passed by then.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
It's like he's having a crisis.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
But even in that, I don't think you realize that you gave me the courage to do the same thing eventually because watching you make some major changes in your life and, you know, walk away from what people said you were supposed to do rather than looking internally and really figuring out who you were.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
That mom made.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I was going through the same thing because I was working at a corporate law firm, you know, making great money. You know, you imagine our parents, mom, working class people. I mean, we were earning more than both of our parents' salaries combined starting out in our first, second years, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
She sewed them. They were these big, bold stripes. And the twin beds were up against the wall. And she had the concept of creating these little padding boards.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
really making the most of this amazing education that our parents helped us acquire, doing what we were supposed to do, going to the best schools and getting the corporate jobs and owning the cars. I had a Saab, you had that red Porsche. I mean, we were the Black successful people, and so were all the people that we were surrounded by. But no one told us that
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
some of those pursuits could be soul-sucking. Because first of all, our parents didn't know. It's like, you're a lawyer, a corporate lawyer, that's great. You're in finance and that's what all the fat cats want to do. But it was interesting how both of us entered those careers, were successful, but something was missing. And when I saw you make that leap with
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
kids and alimony and all the responsibility. It made me stop and think about who I wanted to be and whether I was pursuing what I thought I was supposed to pursue or whether I was being true to what I cared about.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And Barack came into the picture and he was, as I call a swerver, never really even thought about the need to pursue some high-powered career, even though he was Harvard educated, blah, blah, blah. It was all about what were we giving back? What were we doing?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
So you help me make that leap. And it's a scary leap to walk away with debt because we still have student loan debt. And walk away from guaranteed money and basically start over in brand new careers. But that's the beauty of having a big brother who's paving the way. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, she was so crafty, so she created these foam pads that she hung along the side to make them decorative, but to also provide us with a little cushion against the wall, which we thought was so cool.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Although you look good. I do. I do. I do.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, I couldn't have gotten through eight years in the White House without my big brother. That's another sort of unusual aspect to our lives, our relationship was this whole, you know, being married to the president of the United States thing that none of us kind of banked on. I mean, we knew Barack was smart and, you know, ambitious, but, you know, I think...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
But you talked me into supporting his run.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And he was smart enough to know that he needed to come to you and sell you on the idea. So tell folks, what did he say and what you said to me? So... Because I was definitely like, nope, no way. This is crazy. We've done enough crazy stuff.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah, I sort of remember that, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Maybe so, but yeah, I do remember. You remember that? You guys would tell me I'd fall out of bed, start crying, get put back in the bed, and I wouldn't remember anything about it. You wouldn't remember any of it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And that meant that you put your money where your mouth was. I mean, over the course of the campaign, the many campaigns, our time in the White House. I could count on you to be there when I needed you. I mean, you campaigned with us. You campaigned for us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
If anything got tight, if I was feeling a certain way, my team, especially Mel, my chief of staff who's been with me forever, she knew who to call. Melissa loves you more than I do. It's like a lot of times Melissa will be like, I need Greg. And she'd call you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And it was always a breath of fresh air. I mean, there's just something about having your foundation in check. You know, like being able to touch base with home in the middle of something hard and scary and uncertain. And you did that. And did that for the girls. Because they needed their uncle and their cousins and...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And I wanted them, Avery and Leslie, sadly, Austin and Aaron were so young, poor things. They were there, but they don't remember any of it. They're like, why didn't we go to the White House? It's like, you were there. Dude, you were there. You were just four.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Every year, we'd have the turkey pardoning. And that was the one thing that the girls would do at Barack was go stand next to him when he pardoned this turkey. And it was cute when they were little. But as they got older, you could see on their faces and the shots of just them thinking, just poke my eyes out. Just right now. Just get me out of here. I'm standing with my father.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I didn't snore. Now you're making stuff up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
telling these stupid jokes, you know, next to a turkey. So by the time we got to the last year, the last turkey pardoning, they were done. They were just like, I'm out. I'm not going. So in subs, Austin and Aaron, who were, how old were they at the time?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Perfect turkey pardoning age. Like they were like, call me up. I'm in, coach. I'm ready. I'm ready to stand next to Uncle Barack. And they loved his stupid jokes. They loved his jokes. He felt like a new man. He's like, I got a new crew in. They were fascinated. While their daughters were like, you are sad, Dad. You know, Austin and Aaron came in.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
So they remember that because that was like the last chance when they started having memories.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Partition wall.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was some poverty crafting, right? That's like Martha Stewart on a budget. But that wall was just, we were still sleeping head to head, but just on the other side of a wall. And it was special to me because that's, I feel like that's where our real relationship began. Yeah. Because it's like we would talk for hours.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, post-White House and writing the books and doing book tours, you know, speaking at leadership conferences, things you do as a coach, you realize that what we have... Even in our lack of resources in our household growing up, we had people who would share their opinions, give us advice. We had mentors, and we were used to mentoring and being mentored.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And I realize that a lot of people don't have that. They don't have a safe place to come sometimes where they feel comfortable being vulnerable and asking hard questions. Or they don't have people in their lives they trust anymore. They are lone wolves, or maybe they have contentious relationships where they're estranged from the people they could rely on.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
So I can only access so many people through books or tours or at limited leadership conferences. So I think this podcast, first and foremost, gives us an opportunity to hear from folks. We're going to be taking questions from listeners who are going through some things and just need a little advice. They want to hear from people in conversations. And
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And folks are looking for a place where they can just, they can hear stories, you know? I mean, what I realize is like by sharing some of these stories, you know, it always taps into something from somebody else. People, you know, they want to hear some honest kind of conversation about how people are working it through. And We don't have all the answers, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I mean, this show isn't about us being experts at anything other than the lives that we've lived. But what we do have are a lot of opinions.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
In my opinion, IMO. And what better person to do this with than my big brother who, you know, I know how you think. I know why you think it. um you were funny as all get out i trust you implicitly
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
But I am also excited that we're going to involve other people around our table, that we've got friends and other leaders out there and people we've met over the scope of our lifetimes who have their own podcast or living their own lives who are going to come in and engage because we have our opinions, but so do a lot of other people. And I hope the show encourages people to
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Have conversations about what they're afraid about. Don't do what, you know, the one time you didn't lean on me, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, at a time when you needed it because you were afraid of what I would think or what, you know. We want to encourage the listeners. That's what we need in this time. We need kitchen tables where we can just sit down and share opinions, share experiences. That's where the wisdom comes from, you know. Yeah. So I'm excited to be engaged in some of those conversations with you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
How are you thinking about this?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And hopefully it'll be fun.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
We'd go to bed, we're supposed to be asleep, and we'd stay up all night just talking through that little partition.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
We sure do. We sure do. Well, it's going to be a joy to have an excuse to hang with my big brother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
For sure. Lifelong learners. We hope to learn from our guests. We hope to learn from our listeners. And I can't wait until we start getting feedback from people to hear what's missing. What more can we talk about? What areas can we touch on? But again, we are not the experts. This is just our opinion and everybody's got one. And it's important.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, it's important to have an opinion in life and put it out there. So I'm excited.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Thank you for coming on this journey with me, Quag.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
But it was really sweet because I remember being able to talk to you even at that young age about anything, what happened during the day, you know, the little drama and the outside world, you know, just... And just laughing all night long about nothing, making up silly games. It started that young.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Growing up, our house, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Palatial Airbnb.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Who would have thought we'd be able to be in a snazzy place like this?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, when I think about what we're talking about now, our relationship as brother and sister, why we're so excited about doing this podcast, not because we love to talk and we got lots of opinions, but especially since mom passed, this is a joint project that you and me have. And I think it's the first time we've actually worked together and helping people to understand
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Where does that foundation come from where you and I feel so comfortable with each other and we have our whole lives where we can not only work together, but share what has helped to make us close? Right. I think about... Not just our bedroom space in that little bitty first apartment on Euclid Avenue, but I think about the kitchen table because the kitchen was the other gathering place.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
People... You know, they want to hear some honest kind of conversation about how people are working it through. And we don't have all the answers, you know. I mean, this show isn't about us being experts at anything other than the lives that we've lived. But what we do have are a lot of opinions.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And in our house, we as young people with our parents, what they did for us was they invited us to sit with them at the table and talk.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And I think very early on, because our parents had the wisdom to understand how wise kids could be, and how important their voices were, and how much fun it was to not just have kids just seen and not heard. In our household, our parents wanted to not just see us, but they wanted to hear us. They wanted to hear our ideas. They wanted to hear our opinions.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I think that our parents offered us both the first table where we gained confidence in our voices, where we felt like who we were, what we thought, how we felt was important. And not because it was important to the rest of the world, but it was important to them. And I think that's... That's a piece of wisdom in terms of parenting that I try to share, I try to implement in my own life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
But our parents wanted to hear from us. They loved our thoughts and ideas, and they encouraged us to say what was on our mind, do it respectfully for sure. But that, you know, a lot of kids don't grow up like that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yeah, yeah. She was never afraid to tell us when she wasn't sure.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You're not supposed to know everything.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And a lot of parents think that a part of being the parent is to be the one with all the knowledge, with all the answers. And because our parents didn't do that, it also gave us permission and taught us that... Like in life, you are in a learning process all the time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And it's okay to be wrong. And it's okay to stumble. Mom and dad were also very good talking to us, not just about their successes, but about their failures. What they did wrong, what they got wrong in life. And I see that time and time again. Parents feel like they need a shield of all knowingness. in order for their kids to respect them or in order to keep them safe.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
It's like, let me not share with you how I messed up a few times. And I never felt the pressure of their judgment or their expectation in our lives.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
That was a Robinson term. Who are these so-and-sos?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Is that a name? So-and-so was always a little trifling.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
That's the only, you know, way you were going to ruin your life is following him behind so-and-so.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And that was your rationale?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Not thinking for yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, you also make me think that another thing that I think mom and dad was so wise about was because in order for them to push us to use our own judgment, they empowered us to make decisions and be responsible very early in life. And that meant... Think for yourself. But in order to do that, they had to sort of hand us our lives pretty young.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And I'm not saying that they went off to work and left us alone, but I've said this before. Very early on, mom was like, you're going to kindergarten now. Here's an alarm clock. Here's how to set it. set it, get yourself up. Because as she said, you're going to school for you, not for me. She's like, I had my education.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And I don't believe that if you care about yours, that you need your mom to be waking you up every morning. So from the time we started kindergarten, now she was up. It wasn't like she was sleeping in. She was just listening to hear us
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Get ourselves up. Start getting dressed. When we got a little older, even start our own breakfast. And in the era of helicopter parenting, where people are waking up their kids, even calling them from college, mom and dad were the opposite of that. And in doing so, they were telling us, I trust you. Even at five or seven, you have the capability of taking care of yourself.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
And you know I love you, but I got to get you ready for the life you're going to have as an adult. And that means that if you can't even wake yourself up and get yourself to kindergarten... You know, that's how mom and dad would think about it. It's like, so they showed us that we were capable. And guess what happened? We rose to that expectation.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
I was like, I, probably to this day, I don't do late expectations.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Not in the Robinson household. You know, we don't do... On time is late. On time is late. Early is on time. Early is on time. That's Frasier Robinson.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Because our dad had a disability, yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
He'd keep pushing the time of departure for a family outing. It's like, well, we're going to leave at three. And he'd sit in there at two going, well, where is everybody? And it's like, you said three.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, Barack, you know, he had to adjust to what on time was for me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Some people react like, you're doing a podcast with your brother?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
Well, but, you know, I've got this husband who's like, when it's time to leave, it's three o'clock, he's getting up and going to the bathroom. And I was like, dude, dude, like three o'clock departure means you've done all that. It's like, don't start looking for your glasses at the three o'clock departure. But he's improved over 30 years of marriage. But that was a-
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
You Should Start a Podcast with Your Sibling with Michelle and Craig
You know, that was, you must adjust. And Malia and Sasha, if they're doing anything with me, they are early. So they've learned how to snap to it. But that was, you know, those kind of lessons from parents. When you think you're helping your kid, you know, because you're worried about them failing, you don't want them to be late.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
But you've also launched Birth Fund, which is a foundation that provides grants for midwifery, birth support, and holistic prenatal care for mothers. And I didn't know about that work. You're doing it all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
What flipped that switch for you?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
So what stopped you from feeling defeated in that moment? I'm sure I felt defeated.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
A lot of women will experience a breakup from Mr. Big and they'll think it's me. Because taking that power back in relationships and dating, a lot of us don't do that. So what do you think got you to a better place?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I know, you're like my mom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And if she had said something, you would have dated him for another two years. That's what she said. That was her expertise at work there. You guys were talking? You know, I can feel it. I can feel it because I don't even know the dude and I'm mad at him.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Well, he's out of the picture.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Thanks for being here, Elaine. We've got a great question that's right up your alley. But before we jump in, I just want to check, how you doing? You look great. You know what? You got some things going on. Some things. Some things. Tell us all about life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
The church boy. The good church boy. The good old church boy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I sure did, Mrs. Obama.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Really? Jonathan. Wow. I have always tried to tell, you know, you can't tell your kids anything, but there have been some guys in my daughter's lives that I've been like, don't sleep on him. You know? That part.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
The nice ones, right? What is it about the nice ones that there's an age where you just want something bad?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You just want something all wrong.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
For the people in the back? For the people in the back. Because, well, to share my experience meeting Barack, right? Yeah, I want to hear that love story. There was frog kissing. And to anybody out there, no, you're not a frog. But not the right person. Right. But when I met Barack, and I also think that dating is important. Yeah. Because you've got to...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
try on some things to know what really fits. Because you might not have been able to appreciate Jonathan had you not dated Mr. Big. That part. So I dated some bigs. You had some Mr. Bigs? Not old, rich people, but the version of the person who just wasn't right. And I knew they weren't right. But because I had those experiences when Barack showed up,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And there was, as you described it, this sort of calm, right? There was just complete and total honesty and trust. This was a man who knew what he wanted. So there was none of the guessing games that I think... We as women get used to playing and kind of enjoy it. Yes. Being with somebody where it's a total, I don't know if he likes me and maybe he'll call.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
We kind of sometimes get into that game and we mistake that game for love. Yep. But it's a game and it's an uncomfortable game if we're honest with ourselves. Does he really like me? Did he call? I don't know what that meant. Nothing is straightforward. Everything is ambiguous. And I met somebody who was unambiguous and clear. And that feeling was new, but it was the right feeling to look for.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You shouldn't have to wonder about your goals and visions with the person that's right for you. You should be able to have real clear conversations up front and say, this is who I am. Take it or leave it. Who are you? Do you believe in marriage? Do you want kids? Yes. Let's not play a guessing game. And I try to advise young women in my life not to play games in dating.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Ask the questions you need to know and don't be embarrassed by it. Barack was that comfort zone for me. And it was very clear very early that he was different. And different is good. Different is not about games because I didn't want to deal with somebody that I couldn't talk to, that I couldn't trust, that I didn't know what he thought, that wasn't a good communicator. Yep.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And sometimes we look right over those people who are in front of us because we're drawn to the game. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah, yeah. And actually, Barack, when we first started dating, he was like, Mom, I'm not— I'm not really sure if I believe in the institution of marriage.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah. And I was sort of like, really? You know, well, what's that for? And I didn't, you know, it wasn't consistent with, you know, who he was, but he would poke at that, right? Yeah. But he was also the person who asked me out, who said we should date. I was very hesitant about dating because we worked at the same law firm. Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
But it's a good segue into, well, it's almost a good segue because it's like before you get to having the baby,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I was a year, he's older than me, but I went to law school and was practicing. Like he hates for me to say I was his mentor. I was going to say it. You were his boss. I wasn't his boss because I wasn't senior enough to give him assignments, but I was sort of helping him adjust. And I sort of thought, well, I shouldn't date the guy that I was assigned to help.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I thought that'd be tacky, especially we were two of a few Black people in the firm. We both went to Harvard. It just felt a little cliche. And I didn't want to be that associate. But he was like, who cares? We got to know each other for the first month of the summer. And he was like, You're cute. You're smart. You're funny. Let's go on a date. You know, I was like, no, we shouldn't go on a date.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
That doesn't seem right. But he was like, he knew what he wanted. He knew what he wanted. Right. And he wasn't worried about the job or appearances. He was like, this makes sense to me. And you don't get that a lot from guys. That's romantic. You know? Or I know I didn't get that a lot from guys. No, same. I mean, you're guessing for the first few months.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You got to figure out who you're going to have it with. And that takes us to our question for today from a young woman named Alice who's 30 years old and is trying to figure out this whole mothering thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And I was like, well, why am I drawn to that and not drawn to the truth, right? Yeah. So I chose the truth with Barack. I chose to be with somebody who came to me on clear terms. And so as a result, that's how our relationship started. We were already friends, so we could have these conversations.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And I knew he didn't mean the thing about marriage, but his proposal, which I didn't know was coming, goaded me. into this argument about marriage. So Barack had studied and taken the bar, and we had been dating for all through his law school years, so it was about two years.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
So he took me out to a nice dinner, our favorite fancy restaurant in Chicago, under the guise of celebrating that he finished the bar. Little did I know that he had asked my parents, had gotten a ring, and so we're sitting at dinner. I'm thinking that it's a regular date. Midway through the entree, he starts talking about not believing in marriage again. And I was like, no.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
No.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
So he was winding me up. And of course, I was just not feeling it. So I just went off on him. And I was like, this isn't going to last. And if you don't believe in marriage, don't waste my time. And I don't understand. And I wouldn't have kids out of wedlock. We had had this conversation. But he was just winding me up. And I think I was being wound up all through the entree.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
What a way to get to your heart. And he was not arguing back. He was just sitting there with his finger on his temple, just letting me go. And then the waiter brought this tray with a silver tray and opened it up and there was the ring. And I was like, what? You didn't just wind me up to... And he got down on one knee in the restaurant and asked me to marry him. So...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
He loves to tell that story because he was like, that shut you up, didn't it?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Well, that, but that's why I'm always like, we have trouble too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Because even when you have hashtag couples goals, marriage is hard. Yep. And it takes work. And I love him dearly. And I want all couples to understand that, that marriage is work. And it's work every day. Being a parent is work.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
As much as you want it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You know, but... Bringing children into the world, the ones you wanted, you know, it'll be the hardest thing you will ever do because it's the most important thing that you will ever do. And I don't want anybody to be blinded by that. So that's why I talk honestly about not just the highs, but about the challenges. Because I think people, young couples give up too quickly when things get hard.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And it's like, this is hard. This is a hard thing to do, melding two lives together, which is why you've got to be real clear in your choice.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I can't promise right now. It's a safe space. It's a space. You have two daughters. I'm sure they brought you some stuff. Please. And you've had to keep that. And some things I've had to say, don't tell your father that. Okay. This episode is brought to you by Kinesol and Theraflu. Well, hey, hey, I am here. We are here chatting. I'm solo this time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
That's exactly right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I think like you, it was the other frogs, other relationships coming out going, why did I let that happen? Why didn't I say more? Why wasn't I clearer? That's why I believe in dating. Yeah. Because you need practice. You're going to get some stuff wrong. You need to grow up just trying some things on. And be okay with things failing. Be okay with getting your heart broken.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Because you need to know that you can recover from that too. So I think that it was practice made perfect. So I was a little more ready, a little more sure of myself. Didn't have all the conversations. So, you know, there's still things I look back on 30 years and I was like, did I agree? Did I agree to something in this marriage that I wouldn't have when I was 30 that I've got to renegotiate?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And the answer is yes. Because each decade we are learning something different. So you're never going to get it perfect. But I think... Knowing that this was a serious relationship and that Barack was a serious person, I felt he left space for the questions. He wasn't defensive about the questions. And maybe that's another cue for folks like Alice.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You know, you don't want to be in a relationship with somebody that you can't have really good, hard, honest conversations with. Mm-hmm. She said, wasting your time. Mm-hmm. And if they're making you feel like you're intrusive or needy, that's a sign. I know that we lived together for a year before we got engaged.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And I told Barack, I said, it makes economic sense for us to live together, but just know that this isn't a forever thing. I don't want this to slip into years and years of living together. So it's like if we're moving in together, then the next phase has got to be we're getting engaged and we're going to get married. How did he respond to that? He was like, yeah, it makes sense. Makes sense.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Which is why goading me with that question was a little annoying on our engagement night because I was like, dude. Yeah, we already covered this. We covered this. But no, we were in alignment. And I knew that. And so everything felt right. I felt safe with him. I felt like there wasn't anything that I couldn't talk to him about. And that's how you're supposed to feel. Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And sometimes we have to ask ourselves as women and people, are we not asking the question because we don't really want to know the answer? You know, we want to be in pretend land.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
So I won't bring it up because the status quo feels okay. It's comfortable. So I will pretend like he didn't just tell me he didn't want kids. Like you said, when they tell you who they are, believe them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah. And don't be afraid of the question. And I want young women in particular to practice this part of their voice in relationships. To just practice asking for what you want and being clear. But then you got to be okay with... not getting the answer that you want. And I'd rather practice that feeling, right? You'll survive it. No, it's okay to hear no.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
It's okay to hear I don't love you like that. It's okay to hear we don't believe in the same things or I think you're cute, but I don't want to get married. Know it early. Figure it out sooner. Press it and don't feel like it makes you look desperate. All it is is you just want clarity. It's okay to want clarity. And that's different from being desperate. There's nothing wrong with clarity.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Do not live your life in a fog. That's what I would tell Alice. When you're 30 years old and you want things to happen, then don't waste your time with people and just ask the question. It's like, who are you? What do you want? What do you want out of life? Why don't you want kids? Let's have those conversations sooner rather than later. Now, that doesn't mean having them on the first date.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
That might be a little too soon. But once you get to the point where you think you want to spend time with somebody, they should be able to handle these questions, I believe.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah. And I get these kind of questions from my young staff, my mentees, you know, at that age. And a lot of women are struggling with the... Finding a mate, finding a good mate, dealing with the biological time clock, thinking about freezing eggs just feels more fraught than it maybe even was for me when I was that age. But I want to hear a bit of your journey around this question.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Thank you. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You promise. I don't know. I can't promise right now. It's a safe space.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
What happens if I can't cook? Right. How are we going to survive? Yeah, you just don't do laundry. Life is so unpredictable and complicated. And then add in kids, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
It's a space. You have two daughters. I'm sure they brought you some, some, some stuff. Please. And you've had to keep that. And some things I've had to say, don't tell your father that. Okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
If you're married to a man that doesn't do house chores and you've had given birth and you've had a cesarean and you can't be on your feet or, heaven forbid, you have a difficult pregnancy and you come home and he can't do anything, He'd never been grocery shopping, you know, or if you're the woman and you can't balance the checkbook because you've left that to him.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Life is too complicated for two partners not to be real equals in it, you know, because you just don't know what's going to come. You can make decisions throughout the marriage of who's doing what, but everybody's got to be able to do everything, especially when kids are involved. Amen.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And so that, you know, you got to look for a whole person and you've got to be a whole person, you know, and I want men to hear this and I want mothers raising men to hear this too. Teach these men how to be whole. Do not come into a relationship talking about what you aren't going to do, what you don't believe in, and men and women's roles. I mean, if it works out for you, great.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
But then don't let life happen to you. Right. Because then what? Right. You've never learned how to do anything other than the thing that a man is supposed to do? I wouldn't want that, dude. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I think like your mother, right? You don't know whether they're actually listening to you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I'm learning that now because they're now, they're 26 and 23, right? And this is the age where I can see, oh, you were listening, right? I lecture, I talk, we talk, we talk. That's all I've been doing with these girls, talking and talking honestly. Yeah. Making sure that they feel like they can ask me anything, which means like your mother, you got to learn to have that poker face.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Because if you get too involved, then they don't come back. So I spend a lot of time, especially when they went away to college and living on their own conversations or this, really? Yeah. Mm, whoa, ugh, wow, tell me more, right? It's like, they're like cats. It's like, don't hold them too tight, don't squeeze them, because they'll never come back.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I try not to be too judgmental, you know, I try not to be too heavy-handed, but I talk to them in the way that I'm talking to you. Mm-hmm. I share the mistakes that I made. I share the things that work in our marriage without getting them to involve, right? Just making sure they're seeing the good, the bad. They know that I'm human. They hear my stories. So they feel like they can tell me theirs.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And the real learning comes in these kind of conversations, right? Choices that they're making so far are ones that I'm like, okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Not always perfect, but watching them turn the corner and understanding their worth. So I just want my girls to be open and to use their voice in relationships. It is scary to let your kids make their own choices and to suffer their own consequences. Especially when you know better. Especially when you know better. Oh my gosh. It's just like, I've done this.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You know, I'm raising my hand in the room. It's like, I know the answer, you guys. Look at me. Pick me. I can tell you this. I really do know. And, you know, they have to hit the wall, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You're doing good. You're doing good. Well, I think that if we could sum up our advice to Alice, we've had a full-throated conversation. I think, what would you, if you had to give three pieces of advice that summed up what you think Alice should be thinking about, what would you tell her?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
What's the point of being a ride or die?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I love that. And your mom is going to hear this podcast conversation and you know what she's going to say.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Say, oh, Lord, you told your business to the whole world and to Mrs. Obama.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
She is going to say, wow, you know, I knew Lainey had it in her, you know. She was listening all this time, you know. And that's the beauty of parenthood. That's some of the proudest moments you'll have as a parent. Yeah. For Alice, if motherhood is something that she wants, then I wouldn't give it up. I wouldn't give up that dream. Not at 30. I want Alice to know she's young. There is time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
People are becoming mothers later in life. I would encourage her to look at freezing her eggs. Just give herself some time, but do not settle. Do not try to force somebody into a life that isn't for them because marriage and family is hard enough. So you want to do it with somebody who wants that. what you want as much as you want it. And you shouldn't have to talk somebody into your dream.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Ask for what you want. Find out the information you need. Don't allow game playing to take over the dynamic of the relationship, especially as we get older. We just don't have to. Ain't nobody got time for that. Ain't nobody got time for that. So find out what you need to know. And if you're with the right person, those questions won't be intimidating.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And if they are, that's a sign that that person's not for you. If they can't answer some basic questions, if you can't have some good conversations about life and expectations, then that's a cue that just date them. Don't marry them, you know? Yeah. But Elaine, thank you so much for this. This filled me up. I'm really proud of the woman that you have become. So thank you for taking the time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
You have to know that and keep it moving. Unfortunately, you might have to wrap things up. How long were you in the relationship before you kind of thought?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Okay. Well, see, that's truthfully at 25 or 30, you know, young women are still figuring themselves out, you know, and just to cut you a little bit of slack at 25. You were a baby, you know, and you were still figuring out who you were. And in our 20s, we are more malleable. You know, we're more open to possibilities.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And you're with an older man who makes you feel mature and you feel secure in it. I mean, my question is not to you at 25, but it's to him at 50.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Now, I mean, because first of all, it's like a 50-year-old man is dating a child. And that may feel fun and easy, right, in so many ways. But my question to him is, why are you wasting her time? And you know you don't want to have kids, you know? Yeah. So some of the burden is on the guy. He's already been married, has had his kids. So it takes two. And at 25, you learned an important lesson.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I usually have my big brother, Craig, to join me in these conversations, but he's feeling under the weather. So, but we're going to proceed without him because we've got a great question that is perfect for our guest. And I want to welcome one of my favorite people, Elaine Welteroth, who goes without any introduction. She is beautiful, smart, sharp, awesome.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
There are many ways to live a full life. And we're raised as young women to think it's marriage, it's kids in that order. And that's one thing we don't have control over. You don't know if you're going to fall in love. You don't know if you're going to find the right person. You don't know how life is going to unfold. Ain't that the truth. And I find that...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I know some of my young mentees feel less than because they haven't found somebody or they haven't had a child. And it breaks my heart because these are beautiful, smart women who have amazing lives. But because one piece of the puzzle isn't there, a piece that they've been told their whole lives they should want and have, it's almost like life has no purpose.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And one of the things I want my daughters, I'm trying to deprogram them from that belief that there's a certain way to be a woman. in this world because I don't know what their future is going to hold. So I don't talk about when you become a mother or when you get married.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
I say, well, if you find somebody, if you choose that, if that's something you want for yourself, but understand that you can have a beautiful life without all that. Absolutely. You know, you are not less of a person because somebody didn't choose you or you didn't find somebody.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
This episode is brought to you by Theraflu. We've partnered with Theraflu to spread awareness about the amazing work they're doing to fight for paid sick days for all workers in America. Mish, don't you remember when dad didn't feel comfortable taking paid sick days?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Well, I didn't realize he didn't feel comfortable. And just to remind folks, our dad was a blue collar worker. He worked as a stationary fireman for the water filtration plant for the city of Chicago. So he was a shift worker. But I do, what I remember is that our dad never, I can't remember him ever taking a sick day or a day off other than his assigned vacation days.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Never.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And I didn't know why. I just thought. he just had a great work ethic, which I think he did.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Which he did, but he never, it seemed like he was either never sick, which we know now was impossible.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Her resume, she's a New York Times bestselling author, award-winning journalist, former judge on one of my favorite shows that I still never got to go and sit and judge. It could still happen. Project runway. We'll see. It's on my bucket list. Another thing that you are known for is being at the helm of Teen Vogue, doing great things.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Well, our father had multiple sclerosis. So I would imagine there were days that he woke up and he probably felt tired. He probably felt a level of exhaustion that came with the disease, but he just pushed through.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
He just really just fought through it and didn't want to take any sick days and
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Like too many folks in this country.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
Right. Right. Theraflu firmly believes that the ability to rest and recover when sick should be a right, not a privilege. And I love that. Theraflu's Right to Rest and Recover campaign was created to help offset the financial burden that Americans without paid sick leave feel when they take a sick day.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
So far, 7.5 million workers have been impacted by this initiative, and Theraflu is committed to keeping the fight going. Because no one should have to work sick or choose between their health and their job. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraflu.com slash right to recover. We're so thrilled that Pine Sol is a partner of IMO. Pine Sol has been connected to our family forever.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
To this day, whenever my sister and I catch the scent of Pine Sol, we automatically feel better about life. The smell of Pine Sol has always taken us back to our childhood home. It is amazing how smells can transport you to a place or a moment in time. Another smell that takes me back is cherry blossoms, which always remind me of visiting Michelle in D.C.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
That's why I'm excited for Pine Sol's newest scent, Cherry Blossom. The cleaning power you know and love from Pine Sol is available in a new scent this spring, Cherry Blossom, which is light and fresh and leaves a lasting floral scent while eliminating tough dirt, grease, and grime.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
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IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
And especially for Black women, you know, I mean, we can talk about how hard it is to be chosen in this day and age. I love to talk about being the choosers, though.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Break Up With Him When It’s Over with Elaine Welteroth
for Mr. Big to show up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She qualifies for state.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
At the White House, you know?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And I think about the fact that he didn't see you go to, you know, fulfill your basketball dreams. He didn't get to meet his grandchildren who he would have adored and who would have adored him. That's, I'm like, he shouldn't have missed that, right? Right. So I grieve for him, but I was good, right? Because mom and dad set us up to be able to exist with and without them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And I think that that's one of the bravest things you can do as a parent, is prepare your kids for your absence. Not to prepare them for you being there every single second of their lives because you don't have control over that. And so I think about that with the girls. And with Malia and Sasha, I have those conversations with them all the time. It's like, you know what I think.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I have said it enough times. We have gone through the scenarios. We talk all the time. So if something happened to me, you're going to be okay. Mm-hmm. You know, you already have those messages. So I don't want them to be afraid of me dying. I want them, you know, be sad.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
You know, but know that you got this. And that's a peace of mind. And you don't get that if you don't talk about grief, if you don't talk about death. You know, and I just think a lot of us don't, you know, at least in America, we struggle with looking at grief head on as the real thing that it is, the inevitable thing, the rewards of a fruitful life if you're lucky. Right. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, yeah. You put it well that you find yourself managing other people's grief. Because particularly with somebody like mom that was in her own right, amazingly, after all these years, she was a famous person. She meant a lot to so many people, people who knew her well. Friends who grew up with us from the time we lived on Euclid Avenue when we were little kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And then sometimes you got to just, you just got to be okay with the hurt, you know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Hi, this Mother's Day episode is a special one for both of us, and I know for all of you, and it's brought to you by DoorDash.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
An entire... Or a couple of outfits. A full, you know, top, blazer, you know, skirt, all of it. Yeah. And he took such great pride in being able to do that for mom because our mom was pretty... Very frugal. She never shopped for herself. She's... was a beautiful woman and dad loved to see her in nice things. And really the only time she got something new was when he went shopping for her.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, because our folks know our dad had MS.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And then he'd go and get it gift wrapped.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
At the gift wrap section at the time that they did gift wrapping.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, yeah. When we were in the White House for those eight years, one of the things we did... Every Mother's Day is that we hosted military moms and the wives of our military. For Mother's Day, we would usually host a lovely tea, either set in the blue oval room or in the east room. And we made it pretty with...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
All the china and beautiful flowers on the tables, trying to make it really special to honor those moms, the blue star and gold star moms that serve our country and sacrifice. And we would allow them to bring their kids because we also knew that Mother's Day people, a lot of mothers were, especially if their spouses were deployed, they have their kids. Sure.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
We would set aside a different set of activities in the stateroom for the kids where they could go and make what would be surprise treats for their mothers. So they would do some crafting with the staff or bake with our executive baking chef, Susie.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And they would have something special so that after the luncheon, they'd come in, run in and give their moms this gift that they made at the White House. And mom always made it a point to attend that, even though she didn't do a lot of official things.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Thank you, DoorDash, for presenting today's special episode.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I got letters from heads of state and ambassadors. She became a world figure.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah. I even forgot we had a question.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
This is... We went real in.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
That's a pretty amazing thing. And so... When you've got somebody of note who means so much, right? And you lose them as a family, you are managing a process now, right? It becomes, okay, how do you create a memorial service that honors her? And she was very clear on what she did and didn't want.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, yeah. Well, and one of the things you and I have learned, we've shared with the world our stories of our upbringing and our relationships with our parents.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And in doing that, as close as we are and as close of a family as we are, there are ways that I saw our parents and certain interactions completely differently than you did. We're in the same household. It wasn't like there were a bunch of kids. We weren't raised differently. But the thing Madeline has to realize is that she was very close to her father and felt a certain way. Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She probably has absolutely no idea what kind of relationships or set of feelings her brothers had.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Because if they haven't talked about it, right, words exchanged, birth order sometimes makes one kid feel unseen by the parent who saw you so clearly. Mm-hmm. And also with the gender dynamic, two sons versus a daughter. So if you don't talk to your brothers and find out, how did you feel? How did you feel about our father? What were your experiences with our father?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Is there anything that I'm missing? that is causing your grief to be different, other than the fact that we all grieve differently. I would just encourage Madeline to not take this too personally, because it may be that the distance and the difference in mourning could be explained by a difference in relationship. If they're not talking, then she won't know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
If there's no communication at all and it's causing her pain, I would say that it's important for her to find ways to reach out. not to force them to grieve the way she is. I think she may have to be the convener now, right? Because if her father served that role for the family and he's gone, then somebody's got to step up and be it. And that's sort of the darn thing about being a grownup.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It's like when you lose your parents, you lose the... You're next up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
You know, and I guess if anything with mom's loss, I think that that, thank God you're my big brother. And I have a husband who's older because Barack was saying, you know, well, you're next up. And I was like, I'm not really ready to be next up. So I told him, you're next up. Yeah. And Craig is next up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I delegate that power to you because it's a little, you know, that's when you, that's really when you become an adult is when your parents are not in that spot of managing and maintaining. But that's going to happen at some point where each of us in our own lives have to, we become the parent. We become the convener. We become the glue, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And maybe that's daunting for Madeline to kind of, no, maybe you're next up, kid. If it's important to you, because it may not be important to your brothers, especially if they have their own families and their own traditions.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It is. They are very big shoes to fill. And, you know, now that you think about it, when you think about the loss of a parent, like what you you know, it's a major shift in your life for your parents.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah. You know, I don't care how old you get.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Mom and dad are mom and dad.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
You know, even when I was taking care of mom, you know, it's like I still got to listen to her. You know, I can sort of boss her around, but in the end, she's my mother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
There's a comfort level in that and knowing that she... No matter how wise or experienced I am in the world, mom always knew more.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, take it into account, but I don't think mom, that she would ever own who she really was, right? No, no, she would not. So her original requests were just, you know, don't make it anything fancy. Just have a few people, you know. And, you know, unfortunately her only surviving sister died only a few months before she did.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It's like, even if that wasn't true, it was just a good feeling that, let me go. Let me go talk to my mommy. Yeah. And then that's gone for the first time in your life. That's going to throw Madeline. Yeah. That's a big dose. And it's a big dose for all of us, especially if your parents didn't prepare you for that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
If they didn't reinforce in you the maturity and the capability that you have of stepping into those shoes or making the choice not to step into it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Because that may be, maybe that's the daunting thing for Madeline, that she doesn't want to be the glue. She's not ready. And that's okay too. But she can't mourn it if other people aren't filling the gap and she doesn't want to. It may just be the way that it is for now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It may be, but... I would just, you know, I would urge Madeline to fight for the family, you know? Because right now she feels like an unmoored ship in the middle of the ocean. And I feel for her because that's the... That's sadly the trend in this culture now that people feel alone and they don't have connection to family or friends.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And so if Madeline doesn't have her own community, which I would encourage her whether her father's were alive. This is why I say people have to build their kitchen tables. They have to spend a lifetime cultivating relationships within their family and outside of their families, right? Because not everybody gets along with their family.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Not everybody lives near their family, but you do need that support. And I would hate to think that in the midst of her loss of her father, her best friend, that she's got no one, that she went from having a rock to being alone. I don't want that for her. So if she doesn't have that in her own community, then I'm like, then reach out to your brothers. And figure out how to start rebuilding it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
This is a good way for me to make sure that I see him on a regular basis. Let's do a show.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Don't tell me anything. We got taping next week.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And so mom's view was, and that was our aunt Gracie. She said, well, what, you know, what Gracie had was lovely. You know, you just had family and a few people speak and, you know, and I'm just sitting there listening going, mom, there's no way. There's no way we can get away with that. So there was also, I won't call it the stress, but-
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, her theory was like, All these men are old and all they want is somebody to feed them and give them their medicine.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And she's like, and I did. The only person I was going, the only man I was going to do that for was your father. I was like, okay, mom. All right. Yeah. So we had the opposite.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Right. Yeah. That must burn.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She's probably pissed. Madeline, it could be a form of grieving.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah. She doesn't know. She may not have known her parents' relationship.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
No, but Madeline points out in her letter, I mean, she makes an astute assessment that her mom never lived her life alone. Right. She married at a young age. So I think Madeline understands her mom, right? And so part of that understanding, I would encourage her to find the empathy in it That maybe her mom's fast dating isn't a reflection of her love for her father.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But it's just that she doesn't know how to be alone. And there are a lot of people in the world who don't know how to be alone. But that doesn't mean they didn't love or treasure the person that they spent time with. their lives with. Some people temperamentally are afraid to be alone or need a different kind of companionship.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And as you said, that's her mother's way of handling the grief is to fill it quickly. Not saying that that's healthy, but that's what she's probably trying to do is fill that void very as quickly as she can. And it would be a shame if Madeline's disconnect with her mother is due to some judgment that is lacking in empathy for where her mom is. And don't let that burn the bridge.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I can't imagine that her father would have wanted her mother alone and lonely. Yeah. For the rest of her life, even though our mom didn't date, that wasn't some wish that our father would have wanted. I think if dad had had the opportunity, he would have encouraged mom to date and find love again and to continue to build a life if she chose to do that. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
We hope that. But I just know in dad, I don't think he would have expected her to, you know, that he would have asked that of her.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I was concerned about making sure that you, my brother, felt seen in our decisions to memorialize her because it becomes a production.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Well, and as big and bad as I'm sitting here talking, I don't know how I would have felt if mom had started dating.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Be like, well, where did he come from?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Where are you keeping this old dude, you know? Where'd you find him, Mom? Although she could keep some secrets. I remember when she ran, started running track meets in her retirement.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It's the Senior Olympics.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Grocery store gym shoes with no grip or anything.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But she went on to qualify for nationals.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And she was winning, winning.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
So in a period, this is, I guess, what she did instead of finding a man. She started running.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Right, right. So she didn't tell us. She didn't tell us until she qualified for, it was state. So she went through all of this, qualified for city in her age group, came in first in the 50-yard dash in like the locals and then the citywide in Chicago. Yes. So this is a lot of people. This is not a little town.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She qualifies for state.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She left a note saying, by the way, if you're wondering where I am, I'm in Champaign, Illinois, running in a track meet.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Just I dropped dead. Oh, man. She is a mess. But she went on to qualify for nationals.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And that was when she lost. She fell.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Because she got to nationals and realized that all these other old runners were serious. Like they had trained. She hadn't trained. She got up from the kitchen table. Right. put out her cigarette and started running in kids' shoes. And she wouldn't let us like, let's get you a trainer. Let's get you some real track shoes. She's like, that's why I didn't want you to know.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I don't want your involvement. So she got down there and they all had their starting blocks and all this stuff. I think she had on a little t-shirt and some shorts.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But she didn't let us go. So anyway, we digress. But mom could keep some secrets.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Maybe she did have a man for all we know. Anyway, Madeline, back to Madeline. Sorry, Madeline, lost track.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But yeah, don't let this be the reason why your family falls apart after your father's death. Because what I would urge Madeline to think about is what would her father want for his family? And we don't know him. She didn't describe him to us. But if he was the glue, as she says, then that meant that there was something glued together, that he glued together.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
He was the glue of a unit that he valued enough to be the glue for. So that, without a clear directive, was his... action in the world. His family was important to him. So I think I want Madeline to think about how horrible her dad would feel to think that his loss was the end of it. That he and he alone was the only thing keeping things together.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
He'd probably look at his little girl, his favorite, to say, hey, Madeline, or whatever her nickname was, you be the glue. You know how to do this. You know your knucklehead brothers. They couldn't organize their way out of a paper bag. They can't get Christmas together or have enough foresight. They've got young kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Why don't you get on the phone with them and figure out, because it doesn't even take much For the glue. I mean, we don't live in the same cities. I don't see you a lot often.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Because you're in Milwaukee. I'm in D.C. You've got young kids. You know, I'm the former first lady. So sometimes coming to your house is a little bit of a hassle, even though I do. I even did pick up.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And they were happy to see me in the motorcade. I was like, and I told my detail, we're doing pick up. We're going to go to grammar school and pick up my nephews. And they were like, yes, ma'am. So off we went.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And 12 guys with guns. But I don't get to do that often. Even though when we were in the White House, we always made sure you guys came to all the fun stuff that they could come to. But it's not like we had, that we even have fun. We don't live in the same city. Sometimes we go for weeks and it's a check-in, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
If there's something to be said. So I would say to Madeline, it doesn't take... You don't have to call every day. You don't have to be together every Sunday. It's not the frequency of the interaction. It's the quality of the interaction.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Everybody grieves differently.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I think it's just, and it's not just a message to Madeline or advice or our take on it is don't be afraid to deal with grief. Have the conversations while everybody is healthy. Yeah. don't let your grief surprise you because it's gonna happen. And especially for parents dealing with kids, kids can handle it if it's not done in a devastating way.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I mean, mom could be a little harsh about it, but- She was dramatic about it, yeah. Our way of joking and teasing and our family set us up for that, not to totally mess with our heads, but- I think preparing your kids for your loss is not a bad thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It doesn't even mean that you have to talk about when mommy dies, but it's just getting them to a point where they understand the expectation if something were to happen is that I need you to keep living and then do the work to help prepare them to be able to do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Well, that was always how mom was. Mom was like, I don't want to fuss. I don't want to go. I don't want to travel. That was her beauty. Our mom was content with who she was and where she was. And she found her happiness and joy where she was. So that also was like a double-edged sword for her because in her process of being so content and so don't worry about me, she would...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
that they feel secure in their own selves, that they don't feel overly dependent on you, that they understand that, you know, what lessons you expect them to know. You know, that's even before you get down to the specifics of what do people want when they die and, you know, end of life experiences kind of directives.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I mean, that's sort of the lawyerly thing to do because you want to know all that so that you're not trying to manage that while you're grieving. Arguing with family members over whether somebody is cremated or what have you. It's better for the loved one, the deceased, to have made those decisions so that it eliminates the amount of tension and arguments that the survivors have to go through.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
For sure, for sure. But preparing your kids, if all goes well, you precede them. That's in the best possible scenario. So the question is, are your kids ready for you to precede them? And not when they're 10, but when they're 60 and 70. Because if you haven't dealt with this, age doesn't matter. I have friends who are struggling mighty. They're 70 years old. They've got parents who are 90.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
If you aren't ready for it, it's going to hit you. So help find a way to get your kids ready to move on with and without you. I think that helped. I think that's helped us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Pick up the phone. And good luck, Madeline. You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay. Well, thanks. I'm glad you're doing okay, little boy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, but we'll keep talking.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
It's been soon. That's the other thing. It ebbs and flows. There's some days when I'm great, and then there are other days when something happens and it hits me. I go to reach for the phone.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
This episode is brought to you by DoorDash, your door to making Mom's Day even from far away.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah. Way to go. Love you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
You know, just sort of reflexively say no to everything, you know, throughout the whole eight years in the White House. First of all, she didn't want to come.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She didn't want to. She didn't want to move to the White House. Why would I want to live in the White House? I have a perfectly lovely house here on Euclid Avenue. Yeah. Yeah. So you fortunately were able to convince her that she wouldn't be moving for her, but she would be moving for her beloved granddaughters. Yes. And that finally sealed the deal.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But then once she got there, she was like, I don't need, I don't want Secret Service. I don't need this. I don't need that. I'm just going to be up in my suite of rooms. Yeah. And we took a lot of trips over the years. We did some amazing traveling. We went to visit the queen, spent time at Buckingham Palace.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
We were on the Great Wall of China, just us, because the wall was closed off to everybody else. We had visits with two popes, one at the Vatican. I mean, we had a personal greet at the home of Nelson Mandela. That's when-
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Avery and Leslie came on that because we tried to include them. But we generally did our travel or my solo travel without Barack with the girls. We tried to do it in the summer on breaks so that we weren't ever pulling the girls out of school for travel. So we always had some major trips planned afterwards. And we, of course, need mom to go, but it was always presented as a mom, do you want to go?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Right. And if you asked her, do you want to go to China? Her response would be, why would I want to go to China? You already got me here at the White House. I don't need to go to China. So asking her what she wanted was never the approach. You had to tell her Michelle needs you to go on this trip. The girls need you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, it's just you and me. We figured let's ditch the guests. Let's just talk mano a mano. Or is it mano a woman-o?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Because while I was doing all my official stuff, the girls needed a chaperone to do their stuff. And then once she realized that she wasn't going to take this trip for her, that she was doing it for us, then she could accept it. But then once she got there, wherever she was... She had a ball. She was like, oh my God, I'm going to the top of everything. I'm going to see every dome.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She embraced it once she got there. But every trip, the answer was no. We went to Rome. And then later on, we went to Venice another year. And when we asked her about the Venice trip, she said, well, I've been to Italy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And I was like, well, Venice is very different. From Rome. And she was like, well, I don't, you know, I don't need to go back to Italy. And I was like, well, why don't you just, why don't you just do this one for us?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And she said she would probably retire sooner than she was ready. That would be one of her admonitions to people out there. It's like, well, don't just retire because you reach a certain age. Because she still had a lot of life. She still wanted to do work. But it was the dream of people of that generation is that you hit a certain age.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And if you can afford to retire, well, that's the thing you do. Yeah. But fortunately for me, she did retire, for both of us, because she was retired. She really was like our rock when it came to the kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
You know, I'm feeling pretty good. I mean, we've had a year.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
So it's, you know, as many people know, we lost our mom. And, you know, just kind of sorting through how you feel. Yeah. Because the first instinct is to say, I feel good. I'm great. I'm good.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Yeah, yeah. Mom never wanted to, she didn't want to be a burden to us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She wanted her independence. So after we got out of the White House, the first thing she wanted to do was go back to Chicago. And we got her a condo so she'd be in a dormant building because she didn't sort of appreciate the fact that she was a famous person. She was well-known. She's walking around with our faces. We have her face.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Well, what she said she would do in the airport if she would travel and somebody would come up and say, you look just like Mrs. Robinson. And she'd say.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I get that a lot. But all she wanted to do was have her own space. And so as she aged and became increasingly sicker, And she really resisted, you know, wanting, because we were both ready and in a position to scoop her up and have her live with us and provide her with care. And fortunately, I got a lot of months with her because she was with me in Hawaii for this last winter.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And I got to take care of her and pamper her and have all the support she needed. And she resisted at every turn. She didn't want the physical therapist. She didn't want the nurse's aide. So I had to tell her, I need them. But all of that was because she didn't wanna feel like a burden and she didn't wanna just wither away. She wanted to die at her prime.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And just to make clear, that's the kind of stuff that mom prepared us for at a very early age. She was like, I do not want to be here forever. To the point where I don't have my memory. I can't move around. I can't do for myself. She's like, that's not my idea of living. Right. And she didn't have that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
She left a note saying, by the way, if you're wondering where I am, I'm in Champaign, Illinois, running in a track meet.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Just dropping dead. It's like, okay, mom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But I think... You know, what mom did for us when it came to managing grief from as long as I can remember is that she and dad were never afraid to talk about death, right?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Just like every other topic in our household, they parented with an openness, with a philosophy that your kids were smart and capable. And that if you phrase things the right way and did it at the level that they could understand, there really wasn't anything that you couldn't talk to your kids about. about in terms of just broad topics.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
I mean, they weren't the kind of we're best friends kind of parents. It was like, no, you're a child, but we can have conversations. Um, and, and we will encourage questions about everything that included death and aging. Um, because we did grow up with a big extended family. We grew up with all four of our grandparents, um,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
Our parents each had big families, lots of brothers and sisters on both sides. We had lots of cousins. And within any extended family over the course of your life, people die. People get sick. People age.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
But we sell that to say that we were introduced to aging and grief- And talking about it. And talking about it through our whole lives, which is the beauty of growing up in an extended family, right? Because maybe things don't happen in your nuclear unit, but you'll see it. If you have a big enough family and folks are around long enough- you're going to be confronted with it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
And I think that our family, or our parents at least, they just had a clear-eyed view towards life and death. So while dad's death was harder because it was unexpected, and I think for dad, I mourned less for me than for what he'd missed. Because the thing I felt was like, Here is this man who sacrificed everything for us, who worked every day of his life, who...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
The Lessons Our Mother Taught Us
like, was a role model to so many people who gave us this amazing foundation, but he didn't get to see it, like, the fruits of it. Like, I don't think he would have been surprised how our lives turned out. Oh, I think he could have. But I always think, what would dad have said?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
So when I think of Adrian's question, I think he's got a narrow way of thinking about what a happy life can and should look like. And so my first thing for Adrian is to think about why does he think that? Why does he think his choices are either or? That I can either have a family or I can have a career. Or if I'm going to have a family, then I have to have a certain set of things.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I think a lot of young people, a lot of people in general, because of their narrow view of what's possible, they find themselves limiting what life could look like. And I always challenge young people now to first think about your why. You know, don't think about the what. Don't worry about numbers and titles because you can have all that. And I've seen people have it all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And they're still not happy. He could have a big, high-paying job, a great career. Maybe he decides to get married, have kids, but then he'll have no time for them. And then he'll be disgruntled about that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Sounds familiar. Stop checking boxes, first of all. And start thinking a little bit bigger about what a happy life can look like.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I'm just so happy for Avery. It was really neat. Avery and Emily.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Another Mrs. Robinson. How about that? That's strange. That is. How does it feel having your first child married?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I think it's incumbent upon us as adults and people with platforms to talk a lot about the fail, right? Just to own up to the fact that, as you said, Jay, life is full of getting a whole lot of stuff wrong. We will get more things wrong than we will get right. And we've all done it. And we're all okay in the end. I have had four or five different careers. I would want Adrian to understand.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
It's like few people pick a career at the age of 10 or 12 or 15 or 21 and stick with it forever. I want to know. Why aren't you dating? I mean, what are you doing? You know, you're almost 40 years old. Is that all you're doing is working? And how are you going to ready yourself for a partner?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Do you think that you're, you know, building a business is the only thing that's going to be required of finding a good mate?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I married one.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
No, that was a good alley-oop. In basketball, you just point.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
No faith, no faith.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Mm-hmm. And there's a clear definition of what a good catch is.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I mean, I think you make a good point. And I think we can't generalize across the board for women. And I think women are also confused about what they want and what they should be looking for in a mate. I have a lot of friends who will ding a guy because, you know, he doesn't have a college degree or So there are a lot of people who aren't looking deep enough.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
They aren't thinking broadly enough about what makes for a good partner. And instead, we all just look at the superficial things. The first question we ask if we're on a blind date, so tell me, what do you do? You know, just starting with that question, you know, arguably could put somebody on the defensive because what are you looking for? Why is it the first place that we start?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Are we trying to get some idea of how much money they make? And that definitely happens. And I think on the flip side with men, sometimes I think they're maybe a little bit too visual. I think there are a lot of women who are open to a lot of different kind of men and a lot of different kind of lifestyles. Women want a partner. They want to feel loved. They want to feel desired.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
They want to feel chosen. And I think a lot of women, I would tell Adrienne, if you're just straightforward with who you are, you're going to find a mate. You're going to find somebody that wants to go on that journey with you and will be excited about it. And it might make taking the risks a little easier because you're not doing them alone. I left my corporate firm when I met Barack.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And I had somebody who was like, I got your back. The risk you think you're taking, they're not that crazy. And I'm here to help you. That's when I said, I would rather have that in a partner than a higher income. I'd rather have somebody who was ready to do some hard things with me. But that meant I also had to be ready to do some hard things with him. I just think
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
We shouldn't assume, you know, you just got to kind of get out there and meet people and come to people with your truth and then let them decide. But I feel like Adrian may be just too afraid. He's making some assumptions without even testing the waters, that there is a partner out there for him that will embrace everything that he wants to be.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And it could make the ride a lot more fun and easy than it would be doing it alone. So I don't know if that answers your question.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Yeah, yeah. Well, you did a good job, dude. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. Way to go. Way to go.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
We do. Good segue. Way to go.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Okay, okay.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Is that what it's called?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
We're old. No longer placed in the wild.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
But the thing, you know, I want Adrian to think about the power of building something with someone. You know, because I also worry that, you know, Adrian's on this path. He's going to have the perfect everything, will have bought the house. And he might get suspicious of bringing someone into that who hasn't been part of the climb. You know, I...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I think in my marriage, we're stronger because we've been through a hard climb together. I mean, we've seen it all. I loved my husband way before there was any idea he might be president of the United States. In fact, if I thought that, I probably wouldn't have married him. But the beauty of just trudging through some hard stuff together, you know, it can bind you in a unique way.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Yeah, passion versus family versus financial. Financial, yeah, yeah. It's something that we've all dealt with, but it's a good question to get us started.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I don't want Adrian to rob himself of having a good partner along that journey because he could achieve all that, meet some woman, And then he'll wonder, well, do you love me just because I've got the house and the nice job? I mean, so back to the point of there isn't really one right answer.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I mean, he could do all of that and then grow suspicious of somebody who's just glomming on, you know, rather than knowing that somebody is marrying him for him.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Thank you. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
You can learn a little something here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Jay, I'm just grateful that you're here. After our conversation, I don't know if you remember, but I was like, I could talk to you forever.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
He's trying to figure it all out on his own. And I would want Adrian to spend some time not just thinking about the achievements, but to think about the kind of life he wants. And not in terms of just job title, but how do you want to feel about your day? Is it going to be enough for you to have a big bank account and work all hours and never see or have time for the people that you love?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
If you have kids, do you want to spend a lot of time with them? Would that bring you joy? Do you want to go to their games? Is that something that you care about? I would want Adrian, and I think I would want all men, to do a little more of that soft soul-searching, that it's okay to... identify and nurture those real true feelings. It's like, who are you?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And it's okay if you're not a hard-driving competitive mogul. That's okay. We don't need all of that in the world. In fact, I think we have too many men striving for one kind of leadership. We need a broader cross-section of men in the world. So who are you, Adrian, deep down? And and then work to build the life based on that truth. And that may require a little counseling.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
It's definitely going to require him to talk to more people, to find some community, his kitchen table, and to actually have conversations, people who know him and can say, Adrian, man, you're really not that dude. People who can look you in the eye and say, like I did with my brother, you really love coaching, and you'd be a great coach. So go coach. We got your back.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
But if he never taps into that and doesn't learn how to share some of this agita, You know, he'll be struggling alone for a long time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Anything else to add to your... Just to emphasize that a happy life looks very different than what we think it looks like. Once I stopped checking boxes and started thinking about who I wanted to be in the world, not what I wanted to be, not only that... I realize that there's so many ways to be happy. I mean, maybe Adrian will decide that he doesn't want to get married at all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
He may decide to have a partner and not have kids. He may fall in love with a partner who doesn't believe in marriage. I mean, life be lifin'. That's the other saying I like that my kids say. Just be lifin'. And be open to it. There is no perfect way to be. Every way of being is good.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And if you're showing up in the world as a good human, kind, trying to do the right thing, that's what a good life is as far as I'm concerned.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And you had your second set of kids. How old were you? Just to...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
48.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
That's our next segment. We're going to call Amy. We're very grateful.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I'm just picturing 10-year-old Jay sitting down between mom and dad. Okay, now tell me what you're thinking here and what did you mean? But kids do find themselves with the level of sort of precocious empathy. Oftentimes kids do become the mediators in the family and that you were 10 years old doing that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
And yeah, that's why I wanted your heat here. The reason we're doing these conversations is to talk, you know, to talk through things with people, to talk through things in person, you know, with us here, hopefully shedding some light. giving people tools and some kind of direction because everyone is looking just for a little bit of direction. It's like, how did you get here?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
How did you not mess that up? And as you know, we don't have the answers, but oftentimes it's just the conversation that people find helpful.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
This episode is brought to you by Indeed and Pinesol.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Sounds like a familiar dilemma. And the first thing I think about is how I wasn't a risk taker. I think because of the stability that we had in our family, I thought that that was the way you led a life, that things were linear. If you did the right things, if you checked certain boxes, that you were winning in life. And as a result, I think my view of what life could be was way too narrow.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Hi, you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
But I was off on that path, not really thinking about anything but checking the boxes. So I did what I was supposed to do. I went to grammar school, got great grades, went to the best high school I could go to, got great grades, applied to an Ivy League school, got in, did well. Never asking myself, why? What do I care about? After graduating from Princeton, went to Harvard. Why?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Because I got in. And I thought, well, maybe I want to be a lawyer. But it seems like it's a very linear thing. And it wasn't until I was practicing law that life hit me in a certain way. And I started to think about my why. And that sort of made me stop and think, wow, I've been kind of stuck on this path that isn't even mine.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Thinking that what was important was a good job, the right salary, the right school, that there were like these answers and none of it had to do with happiness.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Welcome to one of my favorite places to be. I know it is. Martha's Vineyard.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. It was working on the line at a book bindery. Yes. I got that job. My high school boyfriend at the time, his mom worked at the bindery and got us summer jobs. And it was the kind of job where whatever you did, that one thing, you did it. 10,000 times.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
I remember it was like, because they made binders for school and things like that, like the paper binders and you'd have the three hole punch and you'd have to punch the metal thing that would split the papers open. I would be responsible for putting the metal thing in the hole and then I would hand it to my boyfriend who would put it in the machine and it would stamp it
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
You know, I keep telling you all that. This is a great place for the boys at this age. I know you all are busy with basketball and all the things, but... Last time they were here, they had a ball.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Working at Soldiers Field where the Bears played.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
So you were actually handling food.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
All I remember is that you were excited because you got to drive.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Before you had a license.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Pursue What You Love Before You Pursue Love with Jay Shetty
Yeah, yeah. We're lucky. I mean, I can actually walk. I can get on a bike and ride for hours. I can walk on my own. You can see the ocean. The towns are just very quaint. So I'm glad you're here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Introducing IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
I am Michelle.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Introducing IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
We are so excited for you to listen to our brand new podcast. It's called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Together, Craig and I are going to take your questions about the challenges you're grappling with in life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Introducing IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Whether you're navigating the gray areas of marriage and raising kids or dealing with a little friend drama or even figuring out how to put yourself out there in the dating world.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Introducing IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
And Craig here is my big brother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Introducing IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
But we do have plenty of opinions.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Introducing IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
on IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Because if anybody had a reason to complain would be my father, who was a black man growing up in Chicago, raised in Chicago, desegregation, who was an intelligent man with ability to do art but couldn't live up to his promise.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I mean, there were a whole lot of reasons for our father to be upset and angry and not happy and to feel disappointed, to feel sorry for himself, but he was the exact opposite. And so that's what I think about when times get hard. It's like, look, my dad would push through it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Wish we had this when we were here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Well, hey, professor. Hey, Michelle. Thank you for being on here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
This is a little intimate chat. So how did you come to teach the course? I know you've answered this question a million times before, but what led you to understand that young people today need a course on how to be happy?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And my big brother introduced me. And we were on stage together.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
It was quite an honor. But in his introduction, when you're on stage and you're doing a big speech, you have teleprompters. So you have a prompter in the front, have a prompter on the left, prompter on the right, because you're reading from the prompter because it's timed. You've got to hit it right. It's national. It's live.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
That's an amen from everybody in this room, right? Everybody's feeling like that a bit. Laura, you wanna start by taking a stab at an answer?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
The other thing that I want to get your take on, Laurie, is what's happened to the bar on happiness? Because it really feels like these days that the expectation of young people are so high, and some of that I think is our fault as parents. You know, when we were growing up, I mean, life was a lot... Simpler.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You know, I mean, just to give you an example of excitement in our house was getting pizza on report card day if we got good grades. You know, I mean, at Christmas time, we could ask for three gifts. That was it. You know, go through the Sears Robux wish book. You could pick three things out. And that was it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Oh, yeah. It's a catalog. It's a store, first of all. Sears and Rope. That was the only store you'd go to. You'd get your car tuned up in a washing machine and your school clothes all in one place. And they had a catalog. And you know what a catalog is, young people? It's a thing you look through for items and you pick it out. Well, that came out each year. And that's where all the toys were.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So, you know, our parents just, you know, they were happy that we got good grades. You know, I can tell you, did our parents push us to go to Princeton? No, they were just like, go do something with your life as long as you're a good person. But when I think of young people today, the standard for happiness is like, Gone through the roof.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Here we go. favorite child. He memorized everything. Well, my speech was a little longer, a little more impactful. So I needed the teleprompter, right? So he does this beautiful introduction of me. It's all action-packed. And he says, and ladies and gentlemen, the next first lady of the United States, Michelle Obama. And I come on stage and they're cheering. And we do this greet
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I mean, don't just go to college, but there are like seven colleges you can go to or it doesn't matter. Or, you know, people, you look on House Hunters and everybody's looking for, you know, marble counters and tray ceilings and, you know, a man cave and...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
There's a certain car, and you're not supposed to be successful, but you're also supposed to be famous because social media tells you that that's what it means to be happy. So I guess that's a long way of asking, is some of this not just the world? Because the world's been bad, and it's been worse than it is right now.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But people, young people are more unhappy than I think we ever were with a lot less.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
That's different from being complacent because I think we were taught that you don't need everything and you're not entitled to everything. We were taught not even entitled to happiness.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Our parents didn't think they were responsible for our happiness. For anybody in our generation, you imagine a parent who worried about whether your child was happy. We didn't come from that. It was like, you're not happy. Get over it. Read a book. Get out of my face. Move along. Go outside. You know. And our generation of parents and me, we lose sleep if a little person is sad today.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And it's like sadness and anxiety, that's all a part of life. But as we parent our children, sometimes I think we've made them a little less resilient. And again, that's not to say that people aren't dealing with real anxiety and mental health issues. But I think one of the things I try to think about as a parent
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And I think our parents did to us, they tried to prepare us for what the world was going to be, which was oftentimes disappointing, most of the time hard. And there would be deep anxiety that you'd have to get through at all times. So they gave us those tools. Much earlier than I think some parents today are willing to let their kids go through some of those tough feelings.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So then they get out in the real world and they're confronted with a whole lot of emotions that nobody ever told them was coming.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
in front of the prompter where I think that my big brother is gonna lean down and give me a hug and say, you got this girl, I love you, I'm so proud of you. So I go out there and we're on national TV and do you remember what you said to me?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah. And you talk about that transference, the ability for us to export our bad energy onto other people. And we naturally, as humans, we pick up those cues. Can you talk a little bit more about that transference?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You leaned down to my ear and you said, left prompter out. And he walked off.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
It's great to be here. Great to be with you. And we are just so grateful that Rivian is a sponsor, not just because you're a cool guy, but the cars are amazing. So I was just like... Rivian is one of our sponsors. Are we going to get to drive one? And lo and behold, we did. You guys have outfitted us with cars. Thank you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You know, we had a wonderful conversation here at South by Southwest about hope. Yeah. Because a lot of people are feeling a little hopeless these days. And I think when I hear your story about being a 10-year-old Starting out as a 10 year old with enough of a dream and you're here now with a line of amazing cars that are environmentally responsible, that are creating jobs all over the country.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And it's a beautiful product. I think it reminds us that even when things are dark, if we invest in our kids and believe in their dreams and give them the space to create, you know, that next generation, it's going to come up with the answers that we need.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But, you know, I mean.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So now I'm thinking, what was he talking about? I'm waving, trying to play it off, and I'm walking up to the stand. And what he meant was the left prompter was out. And I was like, okay, good looking out. But anyway, that was my brother looking out. But that was the last time we were on stage together.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah. Well, congratulations on everything you've accomplished. And thank you so much for believing in our vision, the types of conversations that we can have to help spark that promise in the generations to come.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
People always ask me and Barack, how did we stay hopeful in not just the eight years that we were in the White House, but beyond? Because let me tell you, there was a lot of negative energy floating our way. A lot of rumors, a lot of gossip, a lot of, you know, my husband wasn't born in this country, we didn't care about, we weren't patriotic. He didn't get into Harvard.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I don't know if you all remember. I certainly do.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
He wore a tan suit once. A level of scandal that occurred. Through it all, what kept us sane, and we tried to instill this in our daughters, is you cannot live through social media. I don't think I have ever once looked at a comment section, period. and at all ever.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And I know it's difficult for this generation, but I would implore young people to stay, don't let that negative energy enter into your space. These are people who don't know you. A lot of this stuff is made up and it does not feed you. And I mean, you can't do it. And we never do. Now, that doesn't mean you don't stay informed, but staying informed has nothing to do with the comments section.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
It has everything to do with the content of the stories that you take in. And I think we cannot get so trapped by social media that we feel so caught up into the one way we get information. We've got to broaden our spectrum. And we have to get off the phone, which is another thing. And I would love for you to talk a bit about that as a tool.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I know you've got a lot of tools, but there are a lot of people here of all ages who are trapped by their phones. And when you talk about us being disconnected and not talking to each other, I am not out in the world like a normal person anymore, but when I am, People don't even recognize me. You know why? Because they're on their phones. Nobody is looking at each other.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I know this is our first live show. Okay, y'all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I could walk right past somebody with a hat on, you know, and I'm just a black woman in a cap. I don't know about that. No, I've done it.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I have done it. I fly commercial. I am out there with the people, and folks are not paying attention.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
How's she doing? They okay? Anyway.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I'm going to get a mute button for her. I'm just kidding.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Now, we're really excited. We've got a lot of great partnerships, and Rivian has been top of the heap, and we're going to be doing something with them after this. So we'll be able to talk to RJ, the head of that joint. So we're excited to be here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And as somebody who has seen all kinds of power at work, I've been at some of the most powerful tables. One of the things I remind people of is, yes, there is large power. There are a handful of people in the world who can do a few things that can impact so many. But the truth is that the small power that each of us has to do something right in front of us, if we're all doing that,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
outweighs anything that some big leader somewhere can do. I mean, if you just think about, yeah. Just think about, as our parents did, Marion and Frazier Robinson, who didn't go to college. Mother stayed at home. Father was a city worker. And let me just stop and give a big shout-out to city and federal workers, people who... are the lifeblood of this country.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Also, those jobs help to create an entire middle class of people like our fathers, our father, our parents, and they do the lion's share of the work in this country. If we're gonna start asking who's doing what, from my experience,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
The folks who are working on the ground and picking up our garbage and making sure that our schools run and that our air is clean and that our flights stay up in the air, that those people are the true heart and blood of this country. Thank you. But that power is what changes things. Those parents, with the little bit that they were able to do with their power, raised two of us.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Well, what we've been doing, we're going to chat a little bit so you guys will get a sense of our dynamic and sort of some of the lessons we learned growing up. And some of this podcast was started because, you know, this last year was pretty interesting. I won't say completely rough, but we had some... We lost our mom this year. For those of you who don't know, Marion Robinson.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And if you just think that if everybody on this planet was valued and had an opportunity to have a job and to take care of their kids and to raise them with some level of honesty and kindness and with humanity and taught them to love everybody and to be inclusive, just imagine if everybody did that little thing right in their plate.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
If you're going to have some kids, if you can have the courage and the power to exercise that small thing of raising them with some truth and some honesty, just imagine where we would be right now as a country. Imagine what our leadership would look like and how we would ask them to speak and to act and to model. That is the beauty of small power.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So as James thinks about what to do, I hope that retreating into hopelessness is not on the list. Because, shoot, if my dad didn't, this is how I feel, if my father, Frazier Robinson, didn't retreat with all that he could have retreated from, in times a lot tougher than this, because he wanted to lay a foundation for us, then we have that obligation, all of us, to do the same thing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
We can't afford to be hopeless, I would say.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And that's also a way, I'm sorry, Craig, for people to use their social media, you know? you know, it's there for a reason, there's power in it, you know, but we have to resist the notion to use it to harp on each other, to diss and to, you know, spread gossip and to, you know, I mean, each of us in our worlds can encourage the people within it to use the tool
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
for good you know it is a choice that we can make right now everybody in this room everybody listening uh to this podcast who hears us you can make a choice to either you know use these tools for good or use them for evil or to use them to appease your frustration because remember as lori said we pass on that energy You know, we're passing it on.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Our anger, our rage, you know, is one of the reasons why, you know, when our household, we use the motto, going high is important because going high is the model, especially if you have a platform like we did for eight years. Yeah, it's easy to get on a big platform and rile people up and to say hateful things and to make fun of people. Of course, anybody could do that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Any leader can do that, right? That's the easiest way to lead because you're sort of tapping into your easiest basis, you know, core. And you lash out. You share that anger. The strength and the power comes is when you can harness that And understand that if you have a platform, if you're going to be on social media, that you now have an obligation not to spread hate and bitterness and anger.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And if...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And as a result... Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Our mom. She and our dad were some amazing people, and I think as a result of that loss, Craig and I... You know, it brought us even closer together. We were already close, but... I don't know about you, but there's just something about losing what was our last parent.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And I know, Craig, you're a coach. You've coached. You've mentored. I know that mentoring isn't just about giving. It's about what you get in return. Do you want to talk about that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Well, hey, South by Southwest.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And any time in your life when you lose a parent, it's tough, but you think you're going to be ready for it as an adult. But I think part of losing mom, it kind of puts us in the position where we're the wise ones in the family. Hard to believe, huh?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Thank you. And I just want to throw a mom hat kind of piece on there for James is that, you know, your physical health is directly tied to your emotional status. And I know young people, you aren't at the point where you believe what we've been telling you that you got to get sleep. You really do. It absolutely matters. You know, why are older people...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
but probably a little bit happier because I take a nap and I go, I will go to bed and I love nothing more than going to bed early. Now, if you're in your twenties, that sounds really crazy, but you know, it absolutely matters. And what you eat and whether you move your body, you know, we've got Lori here because like there is real evidence. We still live in a world where science matters.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Still, please, please. As we... As we wonder what is wrong and how we fix it, we can't ignore the fact that there are really smart people who have done really important research to come up with the whys and to give us answers. So this stuff actually matters. And when you're 60 plus, it all makes sense.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I know. I mean, I talk to Malia and Sasha about this all the time as they are becoming adults. I know Malia always says, well, when do you actually feel like an adult? And I was like, never, not really, ever. Do you feel like you know what you're doing? So I said, the fact that you're in your 20s and you feel like you are clueless, it's like you're right on schedule.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And taking care of yourself, getting outside, making sure you get a little bit of fresh air, how you move your body, what you put in it matters. So if you're young and you don't feel it yet, because when you're our age, you will feel it. If you start some of those habits now, it doesn't change the world for sure. Voting still matters.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But in the meantime, you know, not partying every night of the week and thinking that you're going to wake up in a good mood, that helps too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And one more thing, one more thing, one more thing, you know, for young people out there, I just encourage us all to sort of right size our happiness meter, you know, and take a little pressure off of ourselves and not to measure. joy and happiness by the wrong things. And let me tell you, look, we are successful. We got degrees. We make money. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But I will guarantee you that having stuff or money or fame, all the things that right now seem to be so important, you know, extolling the virtues of how much stuff you get. In my experience, that really, truly is not the key to happiness.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And finding out what your purpose is, you know, who you are helping and why over how much money you have in your bank account, you know, truly, I know a whole lot of these billionaires and not all of them, as we can see, seem happy. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You know, because that's not ultimately, if that's your only goal is to have more than you need to never be satisfied, if you get on that path and that's what you're going after, you know, there will be a hole in your heart. And it may feel like it's the world, but it may actually be our misguided sense of what it means to be human.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And truly what it means to be human isn't whether we get to space or how much money we have in our bank account, it's really how we treat each other. How do we make each other feel? How do we care for one another? And I guarantee you if you spend your life doing that, really reordering your steps to be that person in the world,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I can tell you that's what makes me feel better and hopeful, is directing my energy at a real purpose. So I would urge James to make sure he's driven by that and not by some other artificial goals that we've been told are important.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Thank you, Lori. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah, thank you guys.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Thank you, guys.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Let's be very clear, he's my big brother.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Austin. Hi, Craig Robinson. My big brother. Yay. He's so nice.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Well, that's because you're bald and you have younger kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I think that helps because he's got a set of older kids and he's got a set of younger kids as well. So I call him the head of the ODC, the old dad's club. He is president and CEO. But even at this age, it's a little daunting to think that now we kind of have to step up in our family and be that wisdom.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah. Yeah. So our goal is to share some of what we learned. We know people are going through some tough times, and I don't think Craig and I are feeling any different than anyone out there. We're dealing with a lot of uncertainties. I, for one, feel for folks who are struggling and will continue to struggle in these uncertainties. I worry about folks being out of work,
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You know, I worry about how we think about diversity and inclusion. I think about how we treat one another and the voices that we hear and what that does, what models that setting for the next generation. Who do we want to be as a country? All of that keeps me up at night. And I know that a lot of people are struggling with some of those things, but I find
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
in those moments that it is better not to try to figure that stuff out alone. And for me and Craig and our family, you know, we always try to step outside of our loneliness and talk as a family and as a community and to share those concerns. And I hope that our listeners understand are pushed to do some of the same things too.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah. You know, I'm not used to being up here with somebody. Usually when I'm speaking, I'm speaking on my own, but I got company.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
That, you know, we're not going to figure this stuff out on our own and that we need each other and we need to step out of our loneliness and start talking to each other. So hopefully this podcast will spark some conversation, but more importantly, I hope it leads people to seek out their own communities of trust and conversation so we're not sitting alone in these feelings. So That's my hope.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Or all the answers.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You're like, don't say anything. Don't say anything. Save it. Don't say anything.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
This episode is brought to you by Rivian.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You know, yeah, yeah. I talk about this in both of my books. For those of you who don't know our story, our dad, Frazier Robinson, he developed MS in the prime of his life. He didn't always have it. He grew up as a boxer, an athlete, a swimmer. And like in his early 20s, he contracted MS and he couldn't walk without the assistance of a cane and the disease progressed.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So we only knew our father as someone with a disability. And I think that growing up with a parent with a disability, looking back on it, we were always kids that were growing up with a real sense of vulnerability right before us because our father was the sole breadwinner. Our mom stayed home. He was a city worker, so that salary was important. I think we knew that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But to know that the person that you lean on most, you know, is vulnerable, I think it always made us clear about adversity. I think we lived within adversity to a certain extent. And it sort of made us both a little wary in interesting ways for a kid because
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And Craig, I don't know if you remember, little things that we didn't at the time tie to our dad's disability, but Craig was always like doing disaster preparedness stuff around the house. I mean, I kid you not, this little boy, and he was about 10, and I was always his willing sidekick running behind him, like, what are we doing now?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Go Beavers. We heard a lot of that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And he came home one day and said, you know, how are we going to get out if there's a fire? So he made us all, do you remember?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Tell your little worry story.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
There weren't smoke detectors.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
We're talking young people back in the Stone Age.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But it wasn't just that. He had to make sure that he could drag our dad to safety. So he made.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
You know, when was the last time we were on a big stage together? You remember?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But he humored you.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah, yeah. But That indicated this little boy was worried about some stuff that probably a normal 10-year-old wouldn't worry about. And that wasn't it. He would tie his left hand behind his back. My right hand. Oh, your right hand, because he was right-handed, because he was worried that he would lose the use of his right hand, so he needed to know how to do everything with his left hand.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
There was one week that you walked around blindfolded, just in case you lost your... I mean, his eyesight... And I'm there, little me going, no, to your left, Greg, to your right. No, wait.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Right there. I was like, I don't know why we're doing this, but my brother says we're doing it. And our parents would just humor us. But while we lived with probably that underlying level of uncertainty, I think when you talk about how we learned to deal with adversity, I think we learned it by watching our father persevere.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
I am thinking about the 2008 convention. And that was a big moment for me because that was Barack's first campaign. And in that campaign, people didn't know me. So I... got accused in the press of being angry and combative because of the way I spoke. So I found that I had to use this speech to reintroduce myself to the country. So this was a big speech, major speech at the DNC. I remember that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
Because let me tell you, our father, despite his disability, was a man who got up every day and went to work. I mean, I don't remember a time in our life that our dad missed a day of work. Blue-collar worker. He took pride in the little things that I think we take for granted, like paying your bills on time, not being house poor. That was a word, we don't want to be house poor.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
But my father would never let a bill go by. He was resilient and he was positive in his life. He was a joyful man because I think adversity was relative in our house. Because if you could walk, if you could hold down a job, if you could take care of your family, if you could love your kids, if you could live with honor and decency, well, who cares if you couldn't walk? He saw the blessings.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
So I think, as I look at it, for me, we learned to... I mean, adversity was relative. Adversity was a part of life, but it wasn't everything, you know? That you'd have to just work your way through it. And the other thing I think Dad taught us was gratitude, immense gratitude. I mean, our father, as you could tell from the stories, was a kind, gentle man. He rarely...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
raised his voice or got angry but you know when he was disappointed in us was when we showed a lack of gratitude for what we had you know if we had a bowl of ice cream and we were looking for the second scoop before we finished our our the first scoop what would he say never satisfied never satisfied that would be the one admonition never satisfied i hate those two words to this day yeah um
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
IMO Live at SXSW: Combatting Hopelessness with Dr. Laurie Santos
And, you know, so when I face adversity, his words sit in my brain. It's like, what am I... what do I have to complain about? What is it that I can't overcome because of the model that my father set for me? You know, why wouldn't I be happy? Why wouldn't I be able to get through this? Because we saw a man do it every day and do it without complaint.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to IMO. Today's episode is a little different than usual, and I think you're going to love it. Recently, I had the privilege of joining my dear friend, Miss Tina Knowles, on the very first stop of her nine-city book tour for her new best-selling memoir, Matriarch.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Because when you grow up in the neighborhood, at some point, you got to fight somebody just to be able to stay outside. There was a girl... It's absolutely true.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
With the Medinas of the world, sometimes you've got to go jack off. That's right. So I just make sure you keep her thrown off, right? That's right. But then she- Mine was Dee Dee.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, she was always messing with me, right? I know the feeling. So it was one of those things. And I think I took her off guard because I just decided. I decided in my little soul, I'm going to go beat Dee Dee up. That's right. So I went outside. We were just playing jump rope. And then I was like, wah, wah, wah, wah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
and what it means to own your story, especially as a Black woman whose journey has inspired so many. There were lots of laughs, and since this is IMO, plenty of life advice along the way. So today, I want to share our conversation with all of you, recorded on stage in D.C. So sit back and enjoy. Here we go. Y'all, aren't we excited? Yes!
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, the lesson for the young people today is use your words. That's right. Use your words. But sometimes. It's time.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's right. That's right, because we get it, right? We get it. That's right. It's like, you're not going to have me hiding in my house, in my neighborhood. How did growing up in such a big family shape how you built and defined your family? Because we all know that you got a lot of kids, and then a lot, a lot of kids.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And you were mothering so many people, but that comes from something.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So was it Teeny Mama or Teeny Mama?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, it was Teeny Mama. Y'all get that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But I got it from a mama. And in this day and age when there are more and more people who say that they feel lonely, You know, especially with social media, we're still recovering from COVID. It just breaks my heart to know that there are folks out there. One of the reasons we started our podcast was to create a space for people to feel like they had some kind of kitchen table.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I think that what, you know, a matriarch shows us is the power of building family wherever you are, you know, and it takes an active engagement. It takes intention because teeny mama was intentional about keeping her doors open and inviting people in. And you've been incredibly intentional about keeping your kitchen table broad and open.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, I got it from her.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And we don't do this life alone. We were not built to do this life alone. You know, Barack was telling me we've been talking a lot about how the advent of the nuclear family, just like us, is new. It's new to this generation. And a lot of the reasons that families and young couples are struggling is because they think they're supposed to do it with just them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And we all grew up with aunts and uncles and cousins. Our mothers were not ever trying to raise us by ourselves. So don't get fooled into thinking that it's just ever supposed to be you. We need play mamas and cousins and uncles and aunties and pretend neighbors. And I want our young people to stop trying to do this life on their own.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I think Tina is a living example that that's the way we're supposed to live. Tina, your parents just sounded amazing. But they, like most people of that generation, they lived hard lives. You say your mother was overprotective, cautious, and yet deeply devoted. You described your father as hardworking, loving, and flawed.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
A terrible incident and a mind left him blind in one eye, and he never learned to read or write. something you didn't even know until later in life. But despite these hardships, they showed up for your family. You want to talk a little bit about some of the lessons that you learned from your parents and some of the lessons you had to unlearn?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You all don't have to pretend like you are not just freaking out right now. Oh, my goodness. Not just on the best sellers list, but number one. Number one. Look at this. If you all have not bought your copy, please do because this is an amazing read. Tina, how does it feel to be number one?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Flo is here. Oh, yeah. Huh? Yeah, where is Flo? Where are you, Flo? Right there. Right there in the second row.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And she looked real sweet, but let me tell y'all I
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's right. That's right. But like you said, it wasn't easy raising a bunch of kids in the deep segregated South. Because if you think times are bad now, being in Galveston, Texas, growing up when stuff was real rough, And even though your folks showered you with an abundance of love, they couldn't or didn't always have the tools to protect you from the world as you would come to realize.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I want you to tell the powerful story of your first encounter with some of that ugliness. When you were just five years old and your mother put you in Holy Rosary Catholic school across the street and you met Sister Fidelis.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, my goodness. And how are you feeling? I mean, you're about to launch a nine-city tour. And I know you're not comfortable in the spotlight. You are used to being behind the scenes, making everybody else look good. So I know this is a little uncomfortable for you, y'all. She doesn't know how to be the center of attention, even though she looks like she knows.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, yeah. And I love that story because it says so much about children, first of all, that, you know, and I say this all the time, children come here with a certain wisdom and a spirit, you know, and it takes the world to knock it out of us. That's right. And you know when somebody is setting your bar low. You children know when somebody is talking down to them.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And the reason I would think that you remember Sister Fidelis is because that was the first time you truly felt unprotected. It was. And you knew you were better than who she thought you were.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I know, it's true. It's true. And they're right about that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But you knew there was something in you that told you that you did belong, that you were worthy.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, and you would need that. Yes. You would need that fighter. It protected me. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You were always a fighter. In fact, as they say, they called you Badass Tina B. And you needed that attitude to make your way in a big family. That's right. But you also needed it growing up in the shadows of racism.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Your sister Flo, who we just met, Flo in your lifetime participated in the early sit-ins that led to the desegregation of Woolworth lunch counters in Galveston. Your parents had to deal with the constant targeting of your brothers by local police. So this fear, this constant fear of needing to protect you all was real.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But then you grew up into the miniskirt-wearing, Afro, midriff-bearing, chaff-loving teen. So you brought in all that environment. You brought all that energy. I want you to share, tell about the time that you got hauled into the police station for doing absolutely nothing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
How does it feel to share your story with the world? Because let me tell you, when I wrote Becoming, I shared this. It's not about me, but what I'm saying is that, you know, I was all confident writing the book. Yeah. And then the day it was coming out, I could not sleep because I thought, oh, my God, I told everybody everything.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
D&V, y'all know about that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's right. And I couldn't get to sleep, and I was like, what if I made a horrible mistake? Same here.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Everyone. Just jealous. Just jealous. But when you talk about the fear that your mother had, getting back to your mother and I'm sure your father, That fear was real. Yes. But I think the interesting thing, you know, because I talk a lot about fear because we're living in times where we see how fear can protect you, but it can also keep you locked.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And small. And it's so important to be able to distinguish between the fear that you need and the fear that keeps you small. That's right. You have been able to, you know, sort of evolve past that. that even though your mother raised you with that real fear, there was something in you that said, I can't carry that fear because I'll get stuck like they did. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And that's important for young people to understand. How do you... redefine yourself in an environment that is justifiably based in real fear?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You say something that, when I think of my mom, who you guys know passed a year ago, but I write about her in the light, and she was very determined to... not parent the way her parents parented her. And I think that that's, you know, and I knew all my grandparents, but I also knew their weaknesses. They believed in things that kids should be seen and not heard, that...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Between that and Cowboy Carter, I have not asked you. Say, oh, that little project, because it's not like you're doing this and that, right? So you're still leading the wardrobe on a big worldwide tour. Yeah. Are you crazy?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
the old fashioned kind of stuff like that. And the thing I always say about my mother's parenting brilliance was that a lot of times we just emulate what we see, but Tina, you're an example that you can change, you can be from one place, be taught a set of things, but you don't have to be of it if it doesn't serve you. Right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And so when you approached becoming a mother, because I want to talk a little bit about mothering, you made a concerted effort to be a very different mother. Yes. Can you talk about that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You have raised the other thing about your mothering that was interesting to read about that people don't, maybe not know. Your girls are like night and day. Yeah, they're very different. Two different people. And, you know, I always say about mothering, you know, you have your first child, and they turn out, they're so sweet, and they sleep through the night.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And you start thinking, I'm such a good mother, and I know what I'm doing. And then the second one shows up, and you're like, oh, no. What did I do? Can you talk about how you approached sort of seeing both of your daughters for who they were?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I like that she was like, oh, well.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
My mother, I tell people, Craig. Yeah. I was like, what do I have to do, lady? I know. That's right. I'm the first lady of the United States. That's right. She's like, you live in the White House. She's like, but Greg's wine is so good. And I was like, oh, lady, please. I'm so glad to hear. This is why we are the way we are.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's so good. Yeah. That's so good. And so the family is feeling good about the book, as we can hear. Nobody is calling you going, mama, what'd you say that for? No. No, not yet. I'm going to get the call, though. I know it already. Yeah. Well, to truly understand that Tina knows that we've come to love and respect and know, I love it that you say that the reader's got to know your history.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It's a beautiful and brave story of strong women, fierce mothering and the power of continued evolution. It's a deeply personal reflection on where she's come from, who she's become and what it means to build a family rooted in love and legacy. Our families have been close for years now, and I've always felt a special connection with the Knowles-Carter family.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, I used to have to tell Malia, I still kind of do, is, you know, I would make the point to her, because they're three years apart, and you know, the big sister knows everything, so you got the little sister at the dinner table, and of course the big sister's like, well, that's not how you say that, and Why don't you know this?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I would have to pull her aside and be like, don't step on my child. No one stepped on you. When you were her age and you sat at the table not knowing anything, me and your father were like, oh, every word you utter is so brilliant. And now here you come making your little sister feel like you're not realizing that you're three years older.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But I'm the same way about not making comparisons. We got to the point at our dinner table where we just didn't talk about school at all. You know, it would be like... You know, okay, you passed. I didn't want to hear about grades. I didn't want to get into that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Exactly, because I didn't know what kind of student Sasha would be, you know. So to this day, Malia still feels like, I don't give her enough credit, but she does. She's good.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, see, the thing is, when we get together, it's like, we don't talk. Because you didn't tell me you were writing a book the last time we had lunch. Because we were so busy talking to these girls who all talk so much.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And this is a quote. You say, to keep me grounded, she, my mother, told me stories from our family history. I listened to every single word she told me. These people, my people, my ancestors and parents when they were young, were characters in a long drama that I am now part of. Their struggles were not mine, but their lessons could be.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, okay. One of our many.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah, everybody feels that way.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
No, I don't mean it like that. I had more experience.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
They are wonderful girls. Yeah, yeah. But the thing I like about your mothering is, and my kids say that this is the phrase they hate for me to say, I'm not one of your little friends. I know that's right.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And so many people are trying to be their kids' friends, and they think that that makes you closer. Cool, yeah. But let me tell you, I was not my children's friend. I loved them deeply. There was respect. And for those of you who are trying to be friends with your kids, our kids love us just as much as adults.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
In fact, the relationship, I think, is even closer because now they've earned my friendship. Right. Exactly. And now you can be friends. Now we can be friends. Now maybe you know something. Right. One thing I wanted to touch on before we move on, too, is just mothering in the age of social media and this whole quest for fame and likes and being out there.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And as a mother who's had to mother people through fame, can you talk a bit about the misperceptions of people who are chasing fame? how hard it is and whether they're thinking about what they're chasing.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I gotta get your thumbs. That's right. Yeah, it's true. But, you know, it's something to want fame. And that's the one thing with young people. They don't, you know, the lights and the glitz. It's not all good. But there's a lot of sacrifice and a lot of loss. You wind up, you know, you have kids and people who have to grow up really fast. And privacy is over. It's over.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Well, let's jump ahead to the career Tina, right? Because in addition to being a ruthless mother and behind the scenes. A ruthless mother. Ruthless and loving from one ruthless mother to another. No, but you, I love hearing about headliners, because that was the hair salon you started, the beauty center you started, and it sounded so much like
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
This was my inheritance, these stories that people had done their best to erase or degrade to keep us from passing them down so that we wouldn't know our history or ourselves. I want to ask you, Tina, why do you think it's important to know and tell your story, our stories?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
the hair salon I went to from the time in Chicago, the time I was old enough to have money to get my own hair done and my mother stopped pressing my hair by the stove. I got babysitting money so I could go to a real hair salon. And it was a real professional hair salon where almost all the professional black women in the city of Chicago went to. And it was called Van Cleef.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And Ronnie, he was my hairdresser until the time I went to the White House. Really? Yes, yes. But Headliners reminds me of the Houston version of Van Cleef. Can you talk about why you started it, what that was like for you, what it did for you to have your own business, what it meant for you in terms of your self-esteem?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We know about that. I mean, how many people here where your hair salon is like your favorite place to be? Yes. Where all the... I know, I know. And so you provided that space, but I love the way... You talk about the need to get your independence because your marriage wasn't always what it should have been. Can you talk a bit about that first marriage?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Because I love the way you talk about Matthew. I mean, you are not together. There was a long breakup. Mm-hmm. It was long.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It was long. I was just like, I'm reading like Tina. Yeah, you're like, again? Oh, no, he's back.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But it was love there. It was love there. But it just didn't work. It didn't work. Tell us about that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
What were some of the lessons you learned about yourself in your marriage, or in the exiting of your marriage?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You are.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I mean, I'm trying my best because I know that when it comes to raising daughters and women, you know, we're socialized to think that we aren't good enough. We're socialized to think that we need somebody else to make us whole. And that starts so young. I mean, it starts with Barbie dolls and kin and the wedding dress and the questions that we ask our daughters.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, my grandmother, when I'm in law school at Harvard, y'all, my grandmother, I would call her to check in and she'd be like, what'd you make for dinner? And I was like, nothing, grandma. I'm in law school. I don't even have a kitchen in my dorm. Right. But it was the message. It was the message. So I'm trying to figure out how to not program that in my girls and the girls in my life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Because if you ask somebody, are you dating somebody? They might be happy. But then you're asking them, well, you're happy, but are you dating somebody? And then they're dating somebody, and then it's like, oh, you're dating somebody when you get married. Right. And then it's on and on and on. When you're going to have a baby. And that's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. It's true.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So what would you tell young people out there?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know? I want to talk a bit about Uncle Johnny because, you know, through it all, right? Because you were managing a salon, two creative girls who had careers skyrocketing, trying to travel, trying to keep a marriage together, and it sounded like Johnny was a huge part of helping you keep your life together.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And what would you say that we got a lot of folks of all ages, but what would you say here tonight, what would you say to young people who don't know their stories? What would you tell them?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You have spent your life taking care of everybody else. You're doing it to this day. I mean, in the midst of your book tour, your mind, I know, is... Back there, you know, I could see your brain working up here. And sometimes that can take a toll. And for you, at one point, you know, you weren't focusing on your health. Yeah.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And you share in the book that you almost missed a life changing diagnosis. You want to talk a bit about that?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Please, y'all, listen to this.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Because this is so prevalent in our community. It's not just men, women, but it's men. Men, too. Yes. And, you know, breast cancer is not a death sentence in the way that it was. No, it's not. No. It is if we aren't checking. It is if we get too busy and life gets in the way. But with regular screening and really, you know, people should be going to the doctor. Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I know in a time when people don't have health care, it's expensive. It's hard. You know, this is why we need to have health care, which is why it matters who is in the White House, why you should be voting, on and on and on, because having access to regular care will save your life.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We're coming to a close, but I want to, I know, I know, I know, I'm looking at the clock going, you lie, you clock, you lie. But I've got some fun rapid fire closing things I want to do. But Tina, I want you to talk a little bit about Sort of finding your wisdom or acknowledging your wisdom. Because there's so much wisdom in this book. But I know you're like me.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
And I've said this before, but at 61, I am just now willing to recognize that maybe, just maybe, I know something. about something. I know, it's true. And I'm just wondering how you feel about why does it take women so, why does it take us so long as women to own our wisdom?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We got part two. Are the publishers in the house?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
That's why you're number one on the best sellers list. Well, I'm grateful that you have shared your story with us. But before we close, let's do something fun. Okay. I would love that. We're going to have some fun in the spirit of the IMO podcast. We are going to do a special, in my opinion, rapid-fire segment.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I'm going to call out a few prompts, and I want you to tell all of us the first things that come to mind.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
The ultimate style icon is...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I don't know. Too many. Diana Ross, Cher. I take those. I think those are good. A good date must include...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Yeah. Some dancing. Do you have a song that just gets you like, hmm?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Oh, yes. The best soul food dish is? It's not your IMO. No.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
There is no soul food dish. Soul food is an experience. It is an experience. It's many dishes. Yes, it's love. All right, the best show on TV right now is? Oh God, the best. I know, that's hard.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
It's real.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
The best movie ever made. Ooh, the best. Cooley High. Oh, yes. You know, I still, you know, when he gets beat up and up under the L. I know. Don't you cry? I cry every time. I cry still. I'm like, I've seen this 75 times. Oh my gosh. But I still cry. Do the young people even know what we talking about?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Hand it over. Your black card. And the five heartbeats. Right. Okay, a green flag. A green flag in dating that's often overlooked. A green flag.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Just being kind. Yeah, being kind. Just straight up kind. Forget how much you make, just be kind. Right, exactly. One thing that's changing in your life right now for the better?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Woo! I like that. Um... An underrated beauty hack?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Where you put your face in the ice?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
They know all the hacks.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So how long do you have to put the ice on your face?
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You know, at my age, you got to try everything. I'm going to. First of all, Tina, you are beautiful. You have not aged one. Iota, I mean, you are looking so good. So tell us, as we close, what does it truly mean to be a patriarch? To be a patriarch? To be a patriarch.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Handling things. And Tina Knowles is handling some things, y'all. This... I just want to say thank you for inviting me to open your book tour. You know, there's so much about you that I knew, but I learned so, so much more about you in these pages that makes me just love you so much more. Y'all, we didn't even, we just barely scratched the surface. There are so many good stories in this book.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
There's so much wisdom that you spit out, and with this level of humor and honesty, you will be cracking up, you will be crying. you will feel renewed, and you will walk away learning something, which is what IMO is all about. Thank you. Thank you for your honesty, your candor. And I'll see you on tour, right? I see you out there. I love you, everyone. Everyone, big hand for Tina Nguyen.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We've learned from one another and shared lots of memorable moments along the way. And as mothers of strong, brilliant daughters who've grown up in the limelight, Tina and I have had more than a few conversations about what it means to raise grounded girls in a world that doesn't always give you that space to just be.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
So it doesn't take deep knowledge. It just takes, you know, for you all out there, start... It is stories. That's all it is. It's the stuff you hear around the kitchen table. You want to retain that, write that down, especially in a time when they are trying to erase our history. Yes. So it is important...
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Tell your own story. Yeah. Now, speaking of names, though, you didn't like your name. No. Tell us about it. I still don't love Celestine. Tell us your real name.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You just wanted a Linda. A Tina.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
You have so many amazing stories about your childhood. You will fall in love with the Galveston community that Miss Tina talks about. But you describe your childhood in Galveston, Texas. You say, this was abundance. And y'all are going to recognize this. A game song with my best friend, a swing set bought on stamps, bulk packed hot dogs, five cent sodas, our own boat, and bread for the birds.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
We shared what we had and felt like we had it to give. My family was on pennies, but we were living like millionaires. Now doesn't that describe a lot of our upbringing, you know? Tell us about your neighborhood, about that big community of people that you grew up in, that family of cousins and uncles and nephews and all of that.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
I've always admired Tina's wisdom, her grace, and that undeniable strength she carries. So sitting down with her in Washington, D.C., on stage with a vibrant live audience was more than an honor. We talked about everything from her childhood in Galveston, Texas, to how she became the matriarch we all know and love today.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Y'all don't know what that is. Right, they're too young. The S&H stamps, you'd lick them, your tongue would get all sticky, but you'd get the books and buy things. I can't believe you all had enough to buy a swing set. All we could get was a toaster.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But you said all the kids would come to your backyard and your mother would, if you were going to go, when you describe having your own boat, explain what that meant.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But you always made room for everyone in the neighborhood, right? Yes, my mom took everybody. So you would gather everybody up. I love that. Talk about that, because I spent a lot of time in the early chapters of your book, because I feel like those stories, and I've known you. We've spent time together. Yes.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
But to really now get who you are, that sort of generosity of spirit, all of that, who you are, it really happened under that pecan tree in that backyard. Because it's also, when people see folks in the limelight, They make assumptions about where we're from and what we have. And I think it's important for people to really know the real Tina. Because y'all had to make it through some tough times.
IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch
Right. Yeah. Do you remember your first fight? Because I sure do.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
“I’m The Party” (w/ Amy Poehler)
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I I'm just now feeling kind of like an adult that knows something, you know, and I. Does it not feel like it's all of the wisdom that she has imparted on you? It's there. But until you activate it, you don't realize that it's just been there forever. Brewing all along. I find that I'm having that conversation with the girls now. I mean, my girls are, you know, they are adults.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
They're living on their own. If you can believe that going from these little girls that people saw on the stage at the first inauguration. they're grown women in the world. But a lot of our conversation now is like, when do you feel like an adult? When does it happen? They think like, is there the magic switch that makes you say, yeah, I'm adulting? And I was like, no. Yeah, I haven't.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
It's not there.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
You know, and when you leave the hospital with that baby, you think, are you guys for real? You're letting us? No one's going to monitor this. You're going to let us get in a car with this precious baby? Yes. I think the sadness or the postpartum that I felt with my kids really came from like you love these babies so much. Immediately you're connected and you think, oh, my God, all you have is me.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Yes. I feel so bad for you. I wish you had a parent. You deserve more because I don't know anything. And now I'm in charge. This is like my inner dialogue. It is, you know, and you're doing it a fourth time. I just had to stop. You know, I was like, I think, you know, I think I've been lucky with these two. You know, Barack was like, we should have a third. And I was like, dude.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Well, two good sleepers, I'd call it two. You know, I'm thinking we're going to get a crazy one. That's it. It's just the roll of the dice. So I, you know, I admire your courage. Yeah. You're on number four, you know, and you know, you don't know what you're going to get.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
And they show you pretty early. They're like, Oh, right away. I have an attitude.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
No one knows what they're doing.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Yeah. And you have girls to all girls, all girls. That's because that's what your husband deserved. Yes. Something in his life. That's what I told Barack. I was like, you know, the karma was like, dude, you need a bunch of women in your life to take care of you around. That's it. No, to do a little smacking around. When I say take care of you, I mean, like handle you. Yes.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Yeah, but well, because, you know, they spent they've lived in the White House longer than they lived anywhere. I mean, you really they grew up in the White House. All right. So you that you're thinking the little years, like when you have full control, the younger years when you have control in the. the worst thing that they do is write on a wall, draw on surfaces. Yeah.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
My, my kids were teenagers in the white house. I mean, those years were just like, okay, you want to go where and do what? And there's prom and you've got to learn how to drive and you have to be normal and you're going to a party and was there alcohol and you have agents and now you have a boyfriend and, uh, And trying to do all that, right, and allow them to be normal kids, right?
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Just, you know, just the process of making sure they knew how to drive when they have been driven by men in armored cars with guns, you know, because they had full details their whole life. Right. And so I'm trying to make sure because at the end of this eight years, they don't that, you know, they don't continue to live that life.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
So when we entered, I'm thinking, how do I make sure that they're normal and ready when this is all over? Right.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
And they have to get on a bus and make their own plane reservations and live in an apartment and have decent friends and be sane in the world. And you start realizing that in the teen years because I wanted to give my girls enough rope to live and be normal teenagers. But I was also worrying about them turning up on page six because they were doing what normal kids would do.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Without that many eyes on them. Without that many eyes on them. And they grew up in with social media, which was different from any other of the younger kids who had grown up in the White House. When you think of Chelsea and Amy Carter and even the Bush daughters who were in college. But it was really Chelsea and Amy who were kids. But there wasn't social media. Right.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
There weren't cameras everywhere, you know, every party that they'd go to, you know, we'd have to build a real community of trust around them so that because I didn't want them sitting home on Saturday night, not understanding what it was like to be out and. have a life before they went to college. Right. Right. So it was really those years, you know, the stressful ones.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I mean, it was like, get the crayon on the wall. Take some crayon on the wall. You know, I mean, magic eraser will handle. Yeah. And, I think Sasha was driving one time because once they got their license, I told the agents they have to drive. You know, I'm sorry, but you only learn to drive by driving. You can't learn it through osmosis in the backseat of an armored car.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
So once they got their license, we got a car for them. And then the agents had to figure out they have to follow this teenager now to school, to parties, to school. And it worked out. But one time Sasha got T-boned. Literally, her car totaled. Some lady T-boned her. And you get this call that Sasha was in an accident. The car was totaled. And then I thought, oh, I hope the lady that hit her is OK.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Because you imagine, right? Yes. Like you T-bone like Sasha Obama. Yes. And then their agents. So I'm also like thinking about them in the world. Right. So, you know, the day to day kind of challenges that any parent has with teenagers. We had it on a hundred. Amplified. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I longed for the days when, you know. I do not envy that. Just write on the wall, will you?
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
We can wash that off. You know, I just I just was I was so glad when we got out of the White House, not, you know, it was just like I wanted them to have the freedom of not having the the eyes of the world on them. I mean, they still are dealing with paparazzi and being who they are and trying to, you know, cover up their own identity. But they got a lot of practice.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
in those years in the White House. And so when people ask me, would I ever run? The answer is no. You know, I mean, you you then if you ask me that, then you have absolutely no idea the the sacrifice that your kids make when your parents are in that role, not
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
not only am I not interested in politics in that way, but the thought of like putting my girls back into that, you know, that spotlight when they are just now establishing themselves, it's like, you know, okay, I think we've, we've done enough question asked and answered never going to happen. Right.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
the really your kids and they've already been in, you know, they've already served their time. Right.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Nope. Nope.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Well, I experienced the challenges in this environment of fast food and more sedentary lifestyles and all that my generation of parents were facing that was new, that was leading to a childhood obesity crisis. And it was was real. And I saw it early on as a as a working mom with my husband traveling. You know, he was a state senator when the kids were little. Then he was a U.S. senator.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
So he was he would like you. You know, I had a husband that had to travel a lot and I had a full time job. So when you're a single when not a single parent, but when you're You know, we called football season single parent season, you know, as a political season, single parent. Right. Yes.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
You know, you're you're relying on juice boxes, doing a lot of process stuff, trying to get things quick and and easy. And I saw the effects on my daughter, primarily Malia at the time. Um, because her, you know, her, the doctors were saying, whoa, let's, let's make sure that we're thinking about her diet in a way that I hadn't, you know, I was buying what was being sold to me.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
The, the conveniences of parenthood. Right. Um, And that had an effect. So we started making changes that were really simple, you know, no sugary drinks. We had the kids drinking milk and water. They were always active. We cut out all processed foods, you know, no more cheese dust in a box.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
You know, if you were going to have macaroni and cheese, it would be real pasta, real cheese, you know, just small, common changes. And within months, her health numbers flipped. And I thought, oh my God, here I am, this highly educated person out in the world with all these degrees. And I didn't realize that we were facing this kind of dilemma.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
And I thought, now this should be something that everyone should be able to get behind. creating a healthier generation because I was also thinking about my platform and it's like, okay, I don't want to do something divisive. My husband's going to be pushing healthcare. I was trying to be strategic about aligning my agenda with something that was important to the West wing. And I thought, well,
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
There's no way that anyone is going to take issue with trying to make school lunches healthier, getting kids more active, really just trying to make the next generation healthier than ours. And boy, was I wrong, which is really interesting in these times with the current secretary of health and human services, who is now saying some of the same things that I was saying.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
But it became a partisan issue. You know, people were telling me that, you know, I'm trying to be the nanny state and I'm trying to control what our kids are eating and telling them what's good for them and what's not good for them. Now, eventually we got a lot done.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
You know, we were able to improve the nutrition standards, the labels so that they were more readable so that people, parents could really understand the breakdown of fat and sugar. And it was clear. We got the school nutrition standards approved.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
uh improved in our schools for the first time in like 50 years there hadn't been any updates uh and we were really focused on making it fun getting kids active reminding parents that you know we got to make exercise fun so we had a lot of amazing partnerships with the nfl and We broke the Guinness World Record.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I planted a garden to try to get people more focused on making vegetables a little more fun and interesting for kids. But it was all about really dealing with a real health crisis that at the time, a lot of people didn't take seriously.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Absolutely.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Because they were obvious. I think your generation talks about nutrition and movement in a way that my generation didn't, especially as women. No one focused on us as real athletic beings when I was coming up. And that has totally changed. And I'm so, so happy to see folks like you benefiting from Title IX and really embracing all of who you are, your power, your strength.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
It really... We just have to make sure we don't backslide on this stuff, right? I mean, because... It can happen in the blink of the eye, where we turn back the clock on a lot of this stuff. And we're really thinking about your girls, right? Yes.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
This is something that I don't care what your political party is, but as women, as mothers, as parents, we've got to be mindful of what some of this rhetoric might do to turn the clock back on a lot of really important progress to give girls, you know, acknowledge the power and the leadership that are inherent in all of our kids, especially our girls. Absolutely.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Hard over correct. Oh, and you know, I'm not going to lie. Doesn't it irritate you when the wee people take the tall guys?
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I would have, I would have some issues with your mom.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
That's it. Look up and say, Hey, that's it.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I think it's a little bit of both. I was always kind of a tomboy being the having a big brother. I was always trying to keep up and I always found what the boys were doing were more interesting. Right. And we had cousins who were two boys that we were close with, some of our favorites. And so I'm the only girl. And my father raised me. It's like if Craig is learning how to do something,
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
you're going to learn it too. So my dad was a boxer. So he got us both boxing gloves because he was like, you're going to learn how to punch. And I had, he had, Craig had his larger size boxing gloves and I had my little ones and we do these spars. And I, you know, I could always hit him harder. So, you know, I was fast. I love to run.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
You know, I just I so I was taught to embrace that part of me, you know, so in my home, I felt like I felt tall. I felt proud. But then you go out into the world. Right. And, you know, before Title nine, being a sporty girl wasn't a thing. Right. Like, what do you do? I don't think there was any place for my parents to put that gift, that interest. Right. I took dance lessons.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I was trying to be more girly and girly meant you were smaller than the guys. And then as you got older, you found that, you know, guys would be lying about their height, especially because I grew up in basketball culture. Right. Oh, yeah. My my brother played everything. Right. Um, so, you know, and I dated a lot of guys on his team, you know, cause those are the guys I were meeting.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
So I would meet some taller guys, but they were always lying about their height. A roster height is at least two inches for men. It's like six, two. Yeah. You are not six, two, not if I'm five, 11 or I to I, you know, maybe, maybe you're six, but that's six, that roster height. Yes, boy. You know, so I look at somebody's roster height and then so they try to make us feel crazy.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Like, oh, you're not 5'11". It's like, no, I'm exactly 5'11". I have no reason to lie about my height. As an adult, I have now grown to to love it. But I came up in a generation that like there weren't the there wasn't the tall size.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
So the worst thing about being tall without the tall sizes is this the pulling up your sleeve because your sleeves are too short. Yes. You know, everything is just a little too short. You always look like you're expecting a flood. You know, exactly. And I'm just sort of like, come on people, a couple of more incidents because the, the littler ones can hem their pants. That's it.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I do not shy away from a heel. My girls don't either. They're like, they've got to get over it. Oh, Sasha loves a big chunky heel. And oh, Malia too. They love their big chunky boots. Good.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
because I'm trying to hear them. So now you're tall and people are talking. You're a mile away. There's a conversation going on down there. And you're like, I'm sorry, I can't hear. It's not traveling up. So I find myself in pictures, I'm leaning over and I hate that, but I can't hear them down there. Yes.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
So that it doesn't feel like I'm just hovering over like, I'm going to eat you alive.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
I am so excited. You're doing this thing. Really, truly. And I'm here for you. I think what you're doing and how you are showing up in the world is, is just what we need right now. So it is truly, truly a pleasure. We will do this again because we didn't scratch the surface of all that we talk about and just keep being you.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Give me some tips when you hear, you know, let me know. I'll tell you.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
No one can give me shit like my brother. That's it.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
That's right. That's what we need. Right.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Yes.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Yes, I'm following in your footsteps. I mean, you're killing the game out here.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
Yeah, well, that's the fun part of podcasting. It is. It's, you know, this is the first time we've entered into the space in a major way. I did a podcast after my first book, Becoming, which was really based more on, you know, the, the sort of focus of the book, the story of, of my life in the, in the white house.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
But this is a bit different because it's a lot more free flowing, you know, IMO it's, it's in my opinion. So, I mean, I think a lot like you, it's like folks have, you're finding they have a People are always looking for some kind of answers because I think we think someone's got wisdom out there. And it just it's it eases our minds, I think, if we can just talk about this stuff.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
We're about a year and a half. So we're really... That's so awesome. Yeah, we're close. We've been close from the very beginning. And, you know, we also just lost our mom about a year ago. And so it's kind of strange that we are now the elders, you know? I mean, when you lose... both your parents and we were, we lost our dad earlier.
Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie & Michelle Obama on Prom at The White House, Destined Girl Dads & Roster Height Lies | Ep. 15
We, I, we were both in our twenties when my dad died and my mom has held it down for us through all these crazy parts in our lives. You know, the white house years, um, you know, she got us through those years. Um, uh, but when you lose your, your parent, you know, you're always kind of wondering what on earth do I know?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So it wasn't just me, Malia and Sasha on Bright Star, the first lady's plane, seeing Nelson Mandela or going on safari or going to see, going to Rome, but Avery and Leslie came with us. So it just made the whole experience feel like we weren't on some island just doing this really hard thing, but we were still doing it as a family. So
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Family values, I think, is probably one of the strongest things we took away. And we made it happen in that little house on 74th and Euclid. It was just brimming with love and conversation and trust.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And this is the tripped out thing about this generation. Like, kids have parties every year. And multiple parties. They're blowout, you know?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
It's a birthday month, and you're renting something, and you're catering. Our generation, you had maybe 13, maybe five years old. You had two parties, and they were at your house in the kitchen table with your cousins.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
They weren't like... Big, like, see me, bring me gifts. But it was a time to gather. And we're talking about the extended family. So my mother had seven brothers and sisters and then the cousins and then our grandfather. We were always at Southside's house for these birthdays because that's the side of the family that did it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
every, there was a dinner and cards for every birthday for all those people, you know? Wow.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So it was almost like every weekend we were celebrating somebody's birthday.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
People didn't have smoke, especially in working class, poor communities. You didn't have smoke detectors.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So I think we knew several kids whose homes caught on fire. Caught on fire.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Remember, we were cooking Pop-Tarts, which were like... On Saturday mornings, we kind of had the run of the kitchen because that was the day mom would sleep in. And we had this old toaster and we were making Pop-Tarts and... It caught fire and there were flames coming.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
This is it. Mom to the rescue.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah. That's scary. But as you talk about fear, when I think about things that... I think we had to subconsciously unlearn was fear. Because we grew up at a time, just coming out of the deep segregation of Chicago, but our parents and grandparents grew up in it. In a time when being Black in the city, you were isolated. There were areas of the city that you couldn't go into.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
because you could be literally harmed, killed as a Black person. That was the truth of Chicago. As I noticed in my family, the fear of what could happen to a Black man, to a Black person, kind of consumed some of our elders and stunted their growth. I mean, Southside, the grandparent that I talked about, He was kind of a mama's boy. His mom, our great-grandmother, Mamaw, overprotected him.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And as a result, he never really got his own footing because he had a mom that was going to make sure, you live at home, I'll take care of you. He also had limits as a Black man because he was a carpenter who wasn't allowed to join the unions, couldn't afford to go to college. They were of the generation where even if you were smart and talented, the ceiling was real and the dangers were real.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
A lot of the reason our family was so close, right, was because the elders were keeping everybody close and they were slowly passing those fears on. Don't go down this street. Don't go on this bus. Maybe not take that job. Don't try something new because it could kill you. Mm-hmm. I think our parents tried to actively unhook those things from us by pushing us out.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I think they knew that they had the tendency to suffocate their dreams because of these fears, to not try new things, to not draw outside of the lines. And I think they deliberately pushed us out. So there were a lot of yeses in terms of experiences, exposures. Craig traveling on his AAU basketball league to other parts of the city even.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Because in a city like Chicago, because of those fears, we had cousins that lived on the west side of the city. We lived on the south side of the city in a neighborhood that was right along the lake near downtown Chicago. If you're a black kid growing up on the west side of Chicago, we met kids that had never been downtown. They had never seen the lake.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And if you've been to Chicago, to be from Chicago and never see the lake is a Herculean effort. But you understand it when you're a Black kid from the West Side and you're viewed with suspicion when you come downtown. You don't feel welcome outside of your neighborhood. So your world gets smaller and smaller. I think our parents did not want that smallness for us.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And we saw how that smallness kept some really intelligent people in our lives in one spot. You know, they didn't move, they didn't grow, they didn't try new things. I had an aunt, my mother's youngest sister who recently passed this year, who never came to the White House in all the years that we were there. She never came. Why? Because she was afraid of flying.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
She was afraid of driving too long. She was afraid of doing anything but leaving her house and going to work and coming home. We saw that fear, right? We saw that, and you have to actively tell yourself a different set of messages about what you can expect from the world.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And we also could have been limited by that, because while it physically limited some of our relatives, some of our grandparents' perspectives, like many people in this country, they were backwards thinking. Their views of white people and who they could trust. The same Southside never went to the doctor because he didn't trust doctors. So he never went to the dentist.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
That's probably why he died in his 70s. He didn't have a tooth in his head, but he would never go to the dentist. And we would talk about these things around our immediate kitchen table because our parents wanted us to learn from the mistakes that they had made and others. And that was the power of that household.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Our parents talked to us very openly and honestly about some of the weird things you'd see at Christmas dinner or some of the conversations. And you'd come back and go, well, why did Dandy, our other grandfather, say that? Why did he yell about that? What was he talking about? We were always allowed to question.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And that fear element and the limitations on people's views of the world, we would see and discuss. And we were told, you have to do better than that. You have to live beyond that fear. You have to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. And I continue to try to do that, instill that in my kids and other kids to this day.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
You got one as a gift, your first 10-speed bike.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah, I'm wondering what it is. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Ha ha.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I just think about all, you know, what would have happened if... My mom wasn't a stay-at-home mom. What if she had been in work when that happened? What if, you know, he didn't have a mom that, you know, would stand up for him? What are all the what-ifs that could have happened?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And that, you know, is—you imagine you're just having a regular day, and your son is pulled up to your house in the back of a police car—
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
At 10, 12 years old.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
You know, and I think what she was incredulous about was that he wasn't even inclined to believe this little boy who was obviously articulate, didn't look, you know, you don't even want to say didn't look like some little hood rat because what does that matter, right? Yeah. But that was, you know, that was unusual for us because we were good kids.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I mean, we lived in a neighborhood where their kids were getting into trouble all the time. And he knew all the kids because he was a basketball player. He knew the gang kids and the drug dealers and the but everybody also knew him. You know, and, you know, when you grow up in a neighborhood, people know the kids that are heading in the wrong direction and the kids who have promise.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Everybody knew that Craig was a good student. He was a good guy. And the notion, and I felt the anger, too. It's like, how dare you do that to my brother? But he, you know, he had a support system. He could have wound up in jail for not stealing a bike. So, yeah, that kind of stuff. Happened all the time.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Walking into a department store as a young kid and having the salespeople wonder why you're there. And you're an honor student coming from high school, having lunch with your friends. I mean, they didn't see that part. There were times when that part of us couldn't be. We couldn't walk around saying, valedictorian.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
straight-A student, you know, speaks excellent, has excellent diction if you give them a chance. You know, we knew very early on that no one was going to see beyond the color of our skin at an early age. And that could get you in trouble.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
The end of Daybreak, Eyes of Love was supposed to have been followed up by another album.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
The dynamic duo. The dynamic duo. I always say it's like my most favorite interview ever, period. Oh, my gosh. That's saying a lot.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Well, in this current climate for me, it's, you know, what's happening to immigrants? You know, so it's not the fear for myself anymore. I drive around in a four-car motorcade with a police escort. I'm Michelle Obama. I do still worry about my daughters in the world, even though they are somewhat recognizable. So my fears are for what I know is happening out there in streets all over the city.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And now that we have leadership that is sort of indiscriminately determining who belongs and who doesn't, and we know that those decisions aren't being made with courts and with due process and that it's being made like this cop that pulled my brother over when he was 12. You don't look like somebody that belongs.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I can determine just by looking at you that you're a good person or you're not a good person. And knowing that there's so much bias and so much racism and so much ignorance that fuels those kind of choices, I worry for people of color all over this country. And I don't know that we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that makes me, that frightens me. It keeps me up at night.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And I know that there are—and I see that when I'm driving around L.A. I'm just looking in the faces of folks who could be victim. And I'm wondering, how are you feeling? How do you feel standing on the bus stop? How do you feel comfortable going to work, going to school, when you know that there could be people out here judging you and who could upend your life in a second? Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Um, that, you know, that, that, that's who I worry for right now.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I have to practice reverse messaging in my own head about this stuff because you can get locked in the disappointments of what is happening right now, and you can sit in it and let that eat you up, and it can taint your view of so much. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I had to remind myself and put myself in situations that reminded me the ideals and beliefs that I disagree with are not pervasive. That there are a lot of good people out there, again, employing empathy, but also reminding myself of the truth of what I've seen and I've experienced.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
that we're in a confusing time, but it doesn't help me and it doesn't help the country for me to grow cynical in that space. So I kind of view it as it's a duty as a citizen to not do the same thing that they're doing and start making assumptions about people based on my anger and fear, that I have to assume that most people are trying to do the right thing, that deep down inside,
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
The vast majority of us do not want to see our neighbors and our friends and relatives live in fear. They just don't understand what it feels like to be the target. But if they knew, they would understand, which is why communication and conversation is so important.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Because maybe if I can tell a story, you know, if I can help them be in the shoes of someone and that it can have that same empathizing effect, that I'd rather use that rather than become, to become discouraged and then suspicious and just be the, you know, just do what they're doing. I don't want to become that. Uh, so it's a constant reminder. Do not slip in to that behavior yourself.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah. Let me tell you, I can, I can, and I can be cynical. And I can be all of that. And I don't want to set myself because in these times it's hard. No one is perfect. But I try to keep that to my kitchen table. You know, I mean, I feel like when you when you have a platform and you have a voice, there is a responsibility to use that wisely.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So, yes, I yes, even I in going high, there are times I want to go low and I need to let that out. But I'm never going to let that out in public because that's not even fully, truly how I feel, you know. So just for our listeners and viewers, it's like, yes, of course, we all feel it. It's just a question of how do we act on it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And the older we get, the further down life's path we go as we parent and parent young kids and adult kids. We've come to appreciate how rare our parents' perspectives were for anyone, let alone for people in their circumstances. Right. Which is another reason why it's like, well, let's create a bigger kitchen table.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
But we have one of those pictures too, my favorite family picture. I was a newborn. I was maybe 10 months, but I was one of these big, fat, round, puffy babies and a bonnet and a white dress. And my dad was in a suit and a bow tie. And our mom had the most beautiful tunic dress on and Craig sat on her lap. I was on my dad's lap.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I mean, with the loss of our mom this year, that was also a big impetus to do this podcast because the wisdom that she gave us, it lives in us. And as people who were raised to be givers and to be mentors and to gain joy from that mentorship, truly that's sort of a shared attribute in both of us.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Being able to take that wisdom and I don't want to spread it to the world, but to just let other people benefit from the little nuggets of wisdom that our parents laid out in that kitchen table. It's like, why not share it? is too often underestimated. And I think our parents came into parenting with a philosophy, like a basic philosophy.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And when you think of how most people think of parenting, they just think, I want to have a baby. And that's where it begins and ends. I want to have a baby. But then the question is, well, why? Why do you want to have a baby? Do you want to have a baby because you're lonely? That's not going to work out well.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Do you want to have a baby to create a mini-me, to continue on some aspect of yourself that you didn't achieve? Yeah. That's going to be a messy kind of situation. Are you lonely and you want a companion? Do you want a friend? I mean, if we actually sit down and piece that stuff apart before we have kids, because parenting is a hard thing.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I think our parents, or at least our mother for sure, she wanted parents because she felt the importance of raising independent, kind, compassionate people, adults. Like she always said, I'm not raising babies, I'm raising adults. And that completely shifts your approach as to how you parent if you're not like just trying to raise a friend.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Because let me tell you, if you want a friend, you never want your friend to be mad at you, right? You want your friend to like you. And if you're a parent and you're worried about whether your kid likes you, I guarantee you, you are screwing them up, right? Because so much of parenting means that you have to suffer through them gritting under their teeth of, oh, I hate you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Oh, mom, you make me so mad and Why don't you ever, you know, and it's like, you can have those feelings, you know, but as my girls say that their favorite phrase of mine is, I'm not one of your little friends. It's like, you don't have to like me. I've got my own friends. So don't slam your door. You can go in your room. You can say whatever you want, but you better not let me hear it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And when you come out, you still have to do it. Because I am not raising you to be my friend. I'm raising you to be a human, a responsible adult in the world. And that's how our mother raised us. And I always say if everybody took that to heart before they had kids and they treated parenting in that way, that would solve a lot of the mess we're trying to deal with right now.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
If parents just approached the job wrong. Like, this is the biggest, most important thing that I'm doing. And it isn't about me. It is about who this little human is going to be and how they're going to enter the world. And are they going to be empathetic? Are they going to be responsible? Are they going to be an asshole out here?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And you start doing that when they're two and three and four, all of that work. It starts that early. That's, you know, if I think of a mission for myself right now today, it's really like having us all rethink the way we are building the next generation and what our duties and our responsibilities are, what we're getting right and what we haven't been getting right. And how do we self-correct?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And I have this little fat arm, and he's in a little bow tie, and he's holding onto my arm and looking at the camera like, you better not. You know, he seemed so concerned. You know, he was about two years old.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I'm really like on one side. for just that thing, because we're not going to be able to count on the government. You know, I mean, we're not right now, we're not investing in education. So we can't, you know, we're not paying teachers enough. We're leaving this all on us. We're saying we don't want to pay taxes for any of this stuff, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So we sure as hell better be good at taking care of our kids because now we're saying, well, then it's all on us and we can't afford to get it wrong.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
It's just like, what is going on?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I don't know what they're going to do to my sister. But that picture epitomizes our relationship. He has always been my quiet protector. And that sweet little face. He is the ultimate big brother. And he's been by my side holding my arm like that for my entire life.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
The end of Daybreak, Eyes of Love was supposed to have been followed up by another album.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
But when you talk about the pressure, I do think that these days parents feel a lot of pressure, but we're like taking on the wrong pressure. Like we feel responsible for our kids' happiness and success, right? So we put a lot of pressure on making sure they achieve, like making sure they don't fail, making sure they don't feel bad or they don't experience disappointments.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So a lot of that emotional energy we're taking on is, in my view, it's misdirected. And it takes a lot of energy if you think that you're responsible for your kids' happiness, right? Wow. And it's a whole lot of energy if you think your kids should always be happy. I mean, that's a current parenting generational angst.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Like, no generations before us, you know, cared about whether their kids were happy, let alone being responsible for your happiness or that you should be happy all the time. It feels like that's a new phenomenon. Yeah. Right. You know, I mean, we just think of all the work that we do to keep our kids busy and, you know, engaged and we sign them up for this and sign them up for that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And, you know, we're taking them here and we're taking them there instead of just going, well, maybe you're going to be bored today. You know, what am I what are we doing on Saturday, mom? When I was growing up, the answer was nothing. Right. And my mother went on with her day. We're kind of taking on a lot of that. My mom always said that I am going to help you own your life as early as possible.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Great words. So that it's not my life. It's not my failure. It's not my homework. It's not my going to school. It's yours. And when you start giving your kids their lives early, which means you got to let go, there's a worry in that. But if you start letting go, it's like you got to wake yourself up. You got to make your bed. You got to wash your plate. You can get to school.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
You can figure it out. You got to figure it out. And I think these days parents don't want to they don't want that process of watching their kids figure it out. And I get it. It is hard to watch the person that you love literally walk into a wall that you see, you know, because our instinct as parents is go, sweetie, no, no, no. You were walking right into a wall.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Let me stop you and sit you here and be safe with me. Now I feel better, right? And the truth is, is that sometimes, at least I've learned with my kids, they have to walk into that wall. They have to bump their head hard. And it hurts me to see it, but I found that they learn faster that way than me keeping them from bumping their heads. And there's a release with that. It's like...
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
It's a different kind of difficult thing that you're dealing with, right? You're dealing with your own emotions and watching somebody that you care about go through tough stuff. But there's no other way to get them to be independent other than dealing with that pain, right? And I always say, as I told Barack, I was like, you know, we either do this stuff early or
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And deal with it, have these hard kind of conversations, deal with these mistakes and failures when they're 10 and 5 and 13, rather than having them live in our basement at 35 for the rest of their lives. It's like, I don't want a kid in my basement. So I've been, our parents parented us not to be in their basement. Mm-hmm. You pay your bills, you handle your business. That's our motto.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Are you handling your business? That's a certain kind of parenting. But if you make that investment early, if you do the hard things, if you make your kids sleep in their bed, if you tell them no when they're five, if you teach them boundaries and don't let them talk back and help them be socialized beings by setting forth some real hard to manage boundaries at three and four and five,
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
You're not even dealing with a lot of these issues at 16 because they've practiced something else in your presence. And so now 16, 20, our girls, all of our kids are joys to be with. They all live on their own. Our kids have an Obama tax that we will continue to pay just to cost on their life that is not their own. So there are certain places that they cannot live where they can afford to live.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
There's certain things like that. But all of our kids, they don't want our help because they get gratification in saying they did this. And that comes down to choosing the college that they're going to go to. I may not agree with you. It happened. It's like, I don't think you're going to like that school, but it's got to be your choice. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
You know, I don't think you're going to like that girlfriend. It's got to be your choice. I got to look the other way. And then I've got to be there with you after you make that mistake going, it's okay. Let's talk about it. What did you learn? But my mother was staying out of our lives very early in our lives.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And I think that's something that makes parenting easy in one way, but emotionally difficult in another way. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
That's right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
That's right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And feeling the confidence in being able to do that. Competence is love too. And I always want my kids to know that I do trust that you have good sense. I do. You can do this. Watch you do it and just see how kids light up when they accomplish something on their own. And if you're the fixer, you're robbing your kids of that sense of self-satisfaction. I failed, it hurt, but it was me.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
But when I succeed, it's also me. And sometimes, you know, as parents, we want that victory.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And doing things they never did. They never did. They never got to travel when they were young. They didn't have the resources. They didn't go to college. They didn't go off their block, out of their neighborhoods. So imagine the fear of sending your kids to do something. It's going to Princeton.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
The day they let him leave to go to some school in some place where they knew nothing about the rituals, the prestige, the kind of confidence. in your parenting philosophy that it would take to execute that. When we were growing up in a community where people's parents wouldn't even fill out their FAFSA forms because they were afraid of their kids going to college. So they held on to their kids.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
They said, go to the state school down the street because it will make me, deep down, it will make me feel better. Right. Because I don't want to let you go. Don't go out of state. Don't leave the home. Don't go out of the neighborhood. A lot of parents parent out of fear, and it's fear for themselves. It's real fear for sure. You know, do not get me wrong.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
A secret.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
It's the hardest thing to do, which is what makes parenting so hard, which is why people really have to think before they bring kids into the world. Mm-hmm. Because it's hard. It's hard in some really obvious reasons, and it's hard in some ways that you will never understand until that little person is breathing in this world, how they will make you feel. You will love nothing more.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I don't know if... It was a secret, but it was what felt like a secret practice of ours. We shared a room for most of our lives. And there came a point in time when our parents, because we didn't have a lot of money, thought it's time for them to have their own room. So they took this one big room.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So I understand it. But that's why we get a lot of it wrong, because we're operating out of fear sometimes.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I believe in all the therapies that Craig just outlined. I believe in the friendship therapy. I believe in the power of sharing your challenges with other people that you trust. And that can come in many forms. And it has for me. I am a talker. And I think, you know, our family was, you know, our first therapy was the kitchen table. Right. Mm-hmm. Right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And our first therapists were our parents and our family members, because you'd have an experience that you needed to, something you needed to let off your chest, something you had to let go of. And we had parents that created a safe space to speak openly and honestly. They didn't treat us like children at that table. They treated us like thinking beings. Right.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And our grandfather Southside, who was a Jack Lay carpenter, built a plywood T-wall that went down the middle of this one bedroom and broke the room into two little units that were big enough for a twin bed. And a desk. And one of those accordion doors, right? Those were our rooms.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So it was very early on that we learned the power of our own thoughts and to trust our own emotions. And when something felt off, you know, we were encouraged. It's like, no, you're not crazy. You're seeing what you're seeing. And yeah, your anger, that anger is real, but you can't show it this way. You know, we were validated at our table. And that's what therapy is. It's a validation therapy.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And so very early on, I sought out the company of girlfriends, friends I could trust and that we could talk to and we could have that validation and present honestly. And as I said in my book, The Light, I cultivated those tables throughout my life. I needed that table in college when we were one of a few black kids on an all-white Ivy League school campus.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
We needed a safe place to go, which might have been the Third World Center, right, where minority students gathered. I found a mentor in an older administrator group. who was my confidant during those days. Small mini sessions, right? Then when I got married and started having kids, I built this amazing community. We built together this amazing community of moms parenting young kids and babies.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And we started getting together every Saturday, taking our kids to all the activities, but sitting around, maybe opening a bottle of champagne and Shedding our feelings and our fears and exchanging ideas. But I've also, you know, been to a formal therapist because, as Craig said, I think we need to be coached throughout our lives.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And I think therapy is a form of coaching where somebody objective can come in and say, have you thought about this this way? You're entering a new phase of life. How are you thinking about it? Having somebody that has a skill set to help you shape a paradigm. I fully believe in that. I believe in couples therapy. I believe in it all. Whatever works for you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And at this phase of my life, I'm in therapy right now because I'm transitioning. I'm 60 years old. I finished a really hard thing in my life with my family intact. I'm an empty nester. My girls are in... They've been launched. And now for the first time, as I've said before, every choice that I'm making is completely mine.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I now don't have the excuse of, well, my kids need this or my husband needs that or the country needs that. how do I think about this next phase? And let me get some help. Let me unwind some old habits. Let me sort through some old guilt that I've been carrying around. Let me talk about how my relationship with my mother has affected how I think about things.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So I'm getting that tune up for this next phase because I believe this is a whole nother phase in life for me. And I now have the wisdom to know, let me, Let me go get some coaching while I'm doing it so that I've got other voices other than the people who know me best. I've got a new person that's getting to know me and seeing me completely new and hearing all these emotions.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I am an advocate of it. Everybody needs to find their form of it the best way they can. For some people, it's podcasts like ours, right? you know, that are providing people with that therapy.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And it's one of the reasons why I'm excited about doing these things, coming on yours and developing IMO, because I hope that maybe for the people who are a little bit skeptical of it, that these forums become the place where they start at least getting some ideas, you know, and thinking, well, I never thought of it that way. I never saw it that way.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And maybe they'll never go to therapy, but they come here for 90 minutes and And they find some answers for themselves. I firmly believe in it.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And there was a little crack in between the rooms by the windowsill. And when we were supposed to be in bed, we would spend that whole night just talking in between the walls, right? We were supposed to be asleep, but Craig would go- Mish, Mish, are you awake? I'd be like, no. And then we'd have some deep conversation about life. And, you know, every now and then my mom would yell. go to bed.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
To whom much is given, much is expected. I feel incredibly blessed in this life. And it's almost like knocking on wood. It's like, let me never take it for granted. Let me always find ways of giving back. And so the guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Which is a form of, am I enough? That's the guilt of feeling... should I do this next thing? Should I say yes when I say no?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I mean, because there's so many requests. There's so much you can possibly do in life that you could never stop. And I do hold guilt to tell somebody that is asking for help or need something to say, I can't or I don't want to. And You know, to even say those words, it's hard to, I don't want to do that right now. It's like unpacking that, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So to say that to, for me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist, you know, I mean, my therapist is like, what? You still think you haven't done enough? And I was like, honestly, yeah. Yeah. It's like, so let's unpack that. I used to say this to Rosalind Carter. The Carters, they were giving until they couldn't walk.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
You're supposed to be asleep. And we giggle and we just keep talking. So I think we shared the secret of not going to bed, but having our own little breakdown of the day. I don't even remember what we talked about, but we weren't supposed to be talking, but we were constantly talking. So I can't think of a secret.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And when I was in the White House every year, Rosalind Carter would set up a meeting because she would want to talk through a set of issues and things she wanted to do and update me on everything. They were those people. And I used to joke with her when she was in – how old must she have been when I'm in office? That requires math.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
So let's say she was in her early 80s or, you know, she was an older woman who had done enough. And I used to joke, it's like, if you don't stop – Because you're my bar, right? And I don't know that I want to be coming to the White House with an agenda list when I'm in my 80s, right? But then I realized it's like, well, that's her bar. That doesn't have to be my bar. What if my bar is different?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And so now I'm practicing that. out some different bars for myself, right? Some different limits and seeing how I really feel in those limits rather than what I think I'm supposed to do. So, you know, that's, you know, it just makes me sigh just saying it, but that's how my brain works. And so sometimes you need help with right-sizing your thinking, right?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah, she would say, there are a million Michelle, Craig, and Baracks in the world. She would say that. That would be the first thing.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Oh, yes. That's a good one.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
She was like a room parent. She wasn't the teacher. She was just coming up to the school to help the teacher.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah, right. I'm going to make him start so that I don't start crying.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And it was the gift of allowing her to be just grandma.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Well, what sums it up is that mom would be so proud of the fact that you're a good man in the world and that you have been a good father, fathering for a long, long time and passing on. That's a dig because he's an old dad, right? Yeah. This is still a long, long, long time.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
But passing on the wisdom, you know, showing up in the world in a way that would make dad proud, living out his view of what it means to be a man. And then sharing that with a lot of other men.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I mean, the fact that you, she would be proud of the fact that you walked away from a lucrative career in finance to help other young men figure out how they can be fast and strong, but good too, and build a life for themselves. That you've taken that same wisdom and you're finding ways to continue to multiply it. to whom much is given, she'd be proud of that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And that you're still here right by my side. I think that would make her proud.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
I appreciate you. You are family.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yes, sir. We just have to meet your sister.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Thank you.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
No wonder our kids are struggling. We have a new technology and we've just taken it in hook, line and sinker. And we have to be mindful for our kids. They'll just be thumbing through this stuff. You know, their minds never sleeping.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Little kids' boxing gloves.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
The gloves are here. Santa wouldn't leave gloves. Glove boxes. Glove boxes.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
But then the secret was we weren't going to tell them that we knew. Because first of all, we didn't want to disappoint them. Oh, yeah. Because it's like, what a blunder, right? So we sort of kept it to ourselves that for a good year or two, we knew there wasn't a Santa Claus.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
They were mad at our Aunt Robbie. My mom was in particular because she was like, I told her not to keep those glove boxes. She was supposed to throw those. My mom was furious because my mom took Christmas very seriously. I mean, she decorated the house. She created a chimney where there wasn't one. She was very crafty. She really took great joy in keeping this Santa Claus myth alive.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And the fact that our Aunt Robbie spoiled it for us sooner than she was ready to, she was not happy.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
It's always an aunt. have kids and didn't really appreciate it. And she cared more about saving a couple of boxes than, you know, keeping the magic of Christmas alive. Oh, that's amazing. So yeah, that was a good one.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
That's why it's good to have him here. Cause I wouldn't have remembered that at all.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
We were stuck with each other for better or for worse. Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Yeah.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
For spring break.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
To visit our grandparents who had just moved down there.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
He's starting to blink. I'm like, are you okay? He's like, I got it. I got it. And I was like, you know, I can drive.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Well, for me, the value, it's the value of family. It's the value of there's no one you can count on more than your siblings and your mom and your dad. And I feel for people who were raised with sibling turmoil or turmoil in their household where they didn't feel safe at home. And that was never the case. We felt poor, you know. We felt like we didn't always get the stuff that we wanted.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
But we always felt—and it wasn't just our nuclear family. We grew up in a big community of family. We're fortunate enough to be raised with all four of our grandparents. Mm-hmm. They all lived within a couple of mile radius of us. Even though our maternal grandparents were separated, they lived in separate households around the corner from each other.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
Cousins and cousins. uncles and aunts. And when times were down, people would share homes. I remember when we were little in Southside, our mother's father, who lived with a couple of her sisters, their house burned down, their apartment did. And I remember being really little and there was a discussion or how are we going to help people out until they found a new place to live.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And so two of our aunts, Carolyn, and there was someone else stayed in our little apartment. And she worked nights, but she slept in my bed. And I didn't even really know it because she would come in and just push me over and sleep in bed with me, which was next to Craig's bed. It was just this, when family's in trouble, you step up.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
And I think to this day, throughout all our travels, travails, being in the White House, we retained that.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson: Break the Generational Patterns Holding You Back (How to Build Confidence, Responsibility, and Emotional Resilience)
No matter what was going on in his life or mine, we had some rituals. You know, we did Thanksgiving together. His family came to the Easter egg roll. My niece and nephew, his oldest kids, whenever we had an interesting trip in the summer, Avery and Leslie always came with us.
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
It's expensive to live in the White House. Many people don't know. I mean, much is not covered. You're paying for every food, every bit of food that you eat. You're not paying for housing and the staff in it, but everything, even travel. If you're not traveling with the president, if your kids are coming on vacation, Wir mussten für ihre Reise auf dem Flugzeug bezahlen.
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
Es ist eine teure Proposition und man läuft zwei Jahre und erhält kein Einkommen. All das war in meinem Kopf. Wie würden wir das umsetzen? Meine Angst kam von dem Fakt, dass ich dachte, dass er gewinnen könnte. Vielleicht war es in der Rückseite meiner Meinung, I was hoping that maybe he wouldn't, you know, that this would be the last thing he would do.
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
But I knew he had it in him to make this happen.
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
Rob, das ist das eine. In dieser Phase meines Lebens bin ich gerade in Therapie, weil ich in eine Veränderung bin. Ich bin 60 Jahre alt, ich habe eine wirklich schwierige Sache in meinem Leben mit meiner Familie durchgeführt. Ich bin ein leerer Nester. Meine Mädchen sind im... Sie wurden gegründet.
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
Und jetzt, für das erste Mal, wie ich schon gesagt habe, jede Wahl, die ich mache, ist komplett meins. Ich habe jetzt nicht die Ausrede, dass meine Kinder das brauchen oder mein Mann das braucht oder das Land das braucht. Also wie denke ich über diese nächste Phase? Und lass mich ein bisschen Hilfe bekommen. Lass mich einige alte Geheimnisse ausweichen.
PBD Podcast
Trump's Film Tariffs, Alcatraz Reopened, China Shut Down | PBD Podcast | Ep. 583
Lass mich durch einige alte Leidenschaften sortieren, die ich umgebracht habe. Lass mich darüber sprechen, wie meine Beziehung zu meiner Mutter mich beeinflusst hat, wie ich über Dinge denke. So I'm getting that tune-up for this next phase, because I believe this is a whole other phase in life for me. And I now have the wisdom to know, let me go get some coaching while I'm doing it.
PBD Podcast
Canada CAVES To Trump Tariff Threats In Trade War | PBD Podcast | Ep. 561
Did you ever think you would make it? I feel I'm so pleased I could take sweet victory. I know this life's meant for me. Adam, what's your point?
PBD Podcast
Canada CAVES To Trump Tariff Threats In Trade War | PBD Podcast | Ep. 561
Hey, TikTok. It's Michelle Obama, and I'm here with my big brother, Craig.
PBD Podcast
Canada CAVES To Trump Tariff Threats In Trade War | PBD Podcast | Ep. 561
We're here because we're excited to announce the launch of our new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
853. Andy & DJ CTI: Judge Rules Fired Federal Workers Must Be Rehired, Putin Agrees In Principle With U.S. Proposed 30-Day Ukraine Ceasefire & House Hearing Ends After Lawmaker Introduces Rep. Sarah McBride As ‘Mr. McBride’
Hey, TikTok. It's Michelle Obama, and I'm here with my big brother, Craig. Hey, everybody. We're here because we're excited to announce the launch of our new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
853. Andy & DJ CTI: Judge Rules Fired Federal Workers Must Be Rehired, Putin Agrees In Principle With U.S. Proposed 30-Day Ukraine Ceasefire & House Hearing Ends After Lawmaker Introduces Rep. Sarah McBride As ‘Mr. McBride’
Check it out. Thanks, you guys. See you soon.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
We couldn't walk around saying valedictorian, straight-A student, you know, speaks excellent, has excellent diction if you give them a chance. You know, we knew very early on that no one was going to see beyond the color of our skin at an early age. And that could get you in trouble. Stop.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
And that could get you in trouble.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
Well, in this current climate for me, it's what's happening to immigrants. So it's not the fear for myself anymore. I drive around in a four-car motorcade with a police escort. I'm Michelle Obama. I do still worry about my daughters in the world, even though they are somewhat recognizable. So my fears are for what I know is happening out there in streets all over the city. Stop it.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
And now that we have leadership, What's happening in the streets in this city?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
Let's hear some more bullshit. It is sort of indiscriminately determining who belongs and who doesn't. And we know that those decisions aren't being made with courts and with due process and, you know, that it's being made.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
It's being made like this cop that pulled my brother over when he was 12. You don't look like somebody that belongs.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
I can determine just by looking at you that you're a good person or you're not a good person. And knowing that there's so much bias and so much racism and so much ignorance that fuels those kind of choices, I worry for people of color all over this country. And I don't know that we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that makes me, that frightens me. It keeps me up at night.
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
And I know that there and I and I see that when I'm driving around L.A., I'm just looking in the faces of folks who could be victim. And I'm wondering, how are you feeling? How do you feel standing on the bus stop? How do you how do you feel comfortable going to work, going to school when you know?
REAL AF with Andy Frisella
874. Andy & DJ CTI: Mike Waltz To Be U.N. Ambassador, Pakistan Claims India Will Strike Them Within 36 Hours & Michelle Obama Blasts Trump's Immigration Crackdown
I fucking, this is bullshit. I wanted to talk, Marlon, a bit about, you know, just so proud of how you are being a role model for dealing with a child that's transgender. Absolutely. And that's, you know, that warms my heart, particularly as a black man. You know, would you care to share that journey of... Well, I learned... Stop.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E8: National Hangover
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E8: National Hangover
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E8: National Hangover
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E8: National Hangover
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E8: National Hangover
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E8: National Hangover
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E4: Trust Issues
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E4: Trust Issues
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E4: Trust Issues
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E4: Trust Issues
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E4: Trust Issues
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
SNAFU with Ed Helms
S3E4: Trust Issues
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
People line up for my advice. And you're walking away like I'm stupid. It's like, I've written books. I've given speeches. Yeah. The whole world is listening to me.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
Well, in this current climate for me, it's what's happening to immigrants. So it's not the fear for myself anymore. I drive around in a four-car motorcade with a police escort. I'm Michelle Obama. I do still worry about my daughters in the world, even though they are somewhat recognizable. So my fears are for what I know is happening out there in streets all over the city.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
And now that we have leadership that is sort of indiscriminately determining who belongs and who doesn't. I worry for people of color all over this country. And I don't know that we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that makes me, that frightens me. It keeps me up at night.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
We don't articulate as black women our pain because it's almost like nobody ever gave us permission to do that. And does anyone care? We have to ask ourselves, the men in our lives is, you know, why wait to be asked? You know, it seems like what we go through is pretty obvious. I mean, maybe we're not complaining, but we're actually living life out loud.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
How will we afford it? Because it's expensive to live in the White House. Many people don't know. I mean, much is not covered. You're paying for every food, every bit of food that you eat. You know, you're not paying for housing and the staff in it, but everything, even travel.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
If you're not traveling with the president, if your kids are coming on a Bright Star, which is the first lady's plane, we had to pay. pay for their travel to be on the plane. It is an expensive proposition, and you're running for two years and not earning an income. So all of that was in my mind. How would we manage this?
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
Do you cook? I love to cook. I know you don't cook. I do not. But you know, I didn't start cooking until my 40s. It's never too late, Michelle. I cooked before. Oh, and then you stopped. Well, I became first lady. And then you can't cook. They don't let you cook. Well, I didn't. I was busy. Are you cooking now? No. No, it's not on my agenda at all.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
It's not among the things that I want to do in this stage in life.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
I should have said that I needed his team to really, truly value that he had a family. You know, that I shouldn't have just said, well, this is what it takes to get this done. I mean, it was almost like the consultants that sit around. It was almost like this is the way it has to be. And remember, the legacy of presidential office doesn't recognize families. It is not designed, you know.
Spot On with Link Lauren
Michelle Obama's Complaining, Jordon and Belichick's True Love, Tapper Says Conservatives Were Right
You get in there and it all revolves around the commander in chief who has always been a man. And the whole system of it doesn't really take into account that there's a wife and kids and their needs and the demands on them. So I wound up having to fight for a lot of stuff on my own.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Former First Lady Michelle Obama. And someone who knows her best, her big brother Craig. We'll be hosting a podcast called IMO.
Stuff You Should Know
Short Stuff: Tick tock goes the Doomsday Clock
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Give My Regards to the Broadway Episode!
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great
To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
People in power who haven't understood their why can lead us down some dark tunnels. We are in a really tough time right now.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And how stupid are you for not really looking and getting to know? So race to me and my household was just a dumb manifestation of ignorant people. But we were taught to keep moving through it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Sometimes there is. Yeah, you just don't show it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
That's when you get into trouble.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I mean, you know, our admonitions in our house were always conversations. It was discussions. And you knew when your parents were disappointed. You knew when you had struck a nerve. And it was never about, you know, just making a mistake or, you know. It was about thinking in a way that felt oppressive, internally oppressive. They didn't like that kind of thinking in us.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
They wanted us to feel our own power. They never wanted us to surrender the way we thought about ourselves to the rest of the world because they probably understood that they couldn't trust the way the rest of the world would treat us, right? So you can't. They knew that we couldn't be so locked into what the world would say because the world was grounded in racism, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And that, you know, a little black boy, more so, even my brother, they were probably more concerned with him because he was going to encounter it every day as he got taller and bigger and smarter. Because all of the men in our lives had experienced someone trying to knock them down a peg or two.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I think our parents understood that that was waiting for both of us, and it was waiting for my brother in particular. So they wanted to arm him with enough self-esteem to fill him up at the table where he was safe, to give him the tools to just embed in him a level of empathy so that he wouldn't become angry, because anger for a young black boy was dangerous, you know? Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So there was a real clever way of allowing us to have these conversations but filling us up with empathy so that we could function in a racist society.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Living through the incorrectness of that. of that underestimation, right? First of all, I grew up, you know, fortunately in a predominantly black neighborhood after white flight happened where everyone assumed I was smart, right? I grew up as the salutatorian in my grammar school. I went to a top high school. I, you know, so I had the fortune of growing up in a validating environment
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Black environment, you know, which is, we talk about that a lot with Black students, whether they should be going to HBCUs and what happens when you get pulled out into a mixed environment where you are so underestimated so early. You know, you start, we talked about the messages that you start telling yourself. I didn't have that because when we were young, you know, I
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
My mentors, my teachers, the coaches, my dance teachers, they were all people who, if I made a mistake or if they doubted me, it was because, not because of my race, it was because I disappointed somebody in some other way, right? So by the time I hit Princeton, thankfully, I had enough internal data to
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
that I could do a lot of things, that I was better, smarter, sharper than they would give me credit for. And then it was confirmed when I walked onto Princeton's campus as an undergrad, feeling a little intimidated because it was an Ivy League school and I wasn't a great test taker, although I was an outstanding student. I wasn't a standardized, good standardized test taker.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
All those numbers said that I shouldn't do well at Princeton. And so I came in as an affirmative action kid, sort of feeling like maybe I don't belong in these ivory towers. And maybe these kids coming from these other schools are really so much smarter and better than I am. And then I sat on that campus, and I looked around, and I was like, oh, my God.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Well, there's all kinds of affirmative action that I never talk about. You know, there's wealth and legacy. There's athletic affirmative action. There were a lot of kids that were on that campus, and as I learned— continue to gain access to these seats of power that have nothing to do with their raw academic ability.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
There are a lot of bright kids who go to these schools, but there are a lot of bright kids whose parents get them into these schools. And when I got on campus and I came out of my first semester with straight A's, I was like, well, what are you talking about? Who are you? Why are you trying to mess with my head in this way when you guys are, you're not even working as hard as me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But that was, it was infuriating, but it was freeing. Because I was like, I get it now. You're just trying to get into my head. You're scared of me. You don't want me competing with you. And I think it was at that period, going to one of the top schools, that I was like, I'm done. I am done worrying about whether I belong here. This is a scam.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It starts at 7436 South Euclid, the hub of it all. That was the home that we grew up in on the south side of Chicago. And it was a teeny tiny house. We lived above our Aunt Robbie. It was a single family home, a bungalow on the south side of Chicago. And our Aunt Robbie was married to her husband, Terry. And they owned the home.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So I think that really, I came out of Princeton just feeling like, rawr, you know, let me at them, you know, forget all this stuff. And now I'm trying to tell other kids that. It's like I'm coming down from the mountaintop with the tablet of truth and going, do not let these people scam you. This is all a racket.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
that you don't belong, that they're smarter, that they work harder, that they know more, that they deserve this more than you do. It's just not true. And so from then on, I was like, you prove that I don't belong here. You know, I'm going to sit at these tables and I am going to run it from now on. Why am I listening to you? Why don't you listen to me?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I think that experience for me was freeing in an odd kind of way. And a lot of kids don't get access. They're just blocked out and it's sort of like they're told, don't look behind the curtain because you don't belong. And they want us to think that way. I stopped thinking that way a long time ago.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I was a lawyer, yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yes, beautiful, high-paid corporate attorney that allowed me to buy a nice Saab.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Drive-in attorney. First real job I had had right out of Harvard, because that's what you did. You know, after you went to go to law school, top school, you were recruited by the top firms in the country, right? And they offer you exorbitant salaries. So at that age, I started as a first-year associate.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I was making more than my parents made combined, which seemed like something you didn't turn down. You know, if you have the opportunity to do that, it's like, well, yeah, sure, I'm going to work for a firm. But that's what I was really doing all my life. I was box-checking. I was just, because I was a good student and I could do certain things, that's what I did.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, I sort of understood that there was a formula. Be a good student. Show up. Do the work. Check. Got that. Get good grades. Go to a competitive high school. Went to a magnet high school. Was this class treasurer. Top of the class. Check. Got it. Because I can do this. I'm just marching through life. Check, check, check. Apply to top college. Got into Princeton. Right. I'm in.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Graduated at the top of the class. Go to law school. Why? I don't know. There wasn't really a thought to why I went to law school. It was just I don't know what I'm going to do after graduate school. not going to be a doctor because I don't like science or math. I like to talk. I like to argue. And so why not go to law school? So I apply to Harvard. Get in. You go to Harvard.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
That was my thought process. There wasn't purpose. There wasn't what do I care about. I didn't know what being a corporate lawyer meant. I was just checking boxes until I became a lawyer. And a lot of stuff happened in that year besides me just joining Sidley and Austin. In that period of time, we lost our father. He died very suddenly.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
one of my best friends from college, Suzanne, died of lymphoma, and it was sudden. She was diagnosed in December, and she died in May. Really, the first time in my life where people that weren't expected to die died. You know, we had lost grandparents and great-grandparents, and
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I was really having kind of an existential crisis sitting on the 47th floor in my beautiful office with a secretary and a sob in the garage, thinking, why me? Why am I here rather than Suzanne? Because she was – that friend was also the dreamer, the person who wasn't box checking. She went to Princeton, but she traveled the world. She didn't go to business school right away.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I always thought, you've got to get your life together. You've got to be on a path. And I thought, thank God she didn't do that because she didn't know she was going to die. But instead of sitting in some office building, she was living life and trying on new things. And I realized I hadn't done that for myself. All I was doing was following a game plan.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And they had a little bitty, almost one-bedroom, two-bedroom apartment over the home. So it was a two-family home. We were surrounded by extended family. That community of people that you, probably because people didn't have a lot of resources, people lived with each other. You know, you shared spaces, you lived next to one another.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I wasn't trying to figure out my purpose. And at the same time, I met Barack Obama. He showed up in my life as the opposite of a box checker, but somebody I describe in my book as an ultimate swerver. He did nothing by the book, but he was brilliant and interesting. He didn't go to law school right away. He worked as a community organizer. He lived in different parts of the world.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
He was really trying to unpack life in a way that People in my generation weren't trying to do. You were just, you know, I was with the black bourgeois, right? And people were buying their homes and getting their cars together and trying to make partner at a firm. There was a very finite path. And I hadn't explored anything else but that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I thought, I have to do something more before I settle on this. And I think Barack helped give me the courage. He was the person in my ear that said, why would you want to just stop here and settle on this career when there's so much out there that you haven't tried? You can do this. And I was like, but I'm loaded down with debt.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And right around that time, we knew we were going to be together. We knew we were going to be engaged. And he was like, we'll figure that out. He was like, don't settle on becoming a partner at a law firm because of money. It's like, you need to see the world in a different way. And we'll figure this out together. And so I started swerving.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood, and we were taught foundational values so that we could function in our society. But growing up, I was just checking boxes. And then I met Barack Obama. He showed up in my life as the opposite of a box checker.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I started trying other things in life and never looked back.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But I never brought.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah, but why would you think it wouldn't last? The people that didn't last, you didn't meet.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah, but you never met them.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
That's one of those just sort of myths. Michelle's so hard on men, you know. So it's like, yeah. I didn't say she was hard. I brought him home. And I think there was one other boyfriend that you met, even though I had plenty of boyfriends. I just, you know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Well, that's because we went to school together.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Right? Right. Those guys didn't last. But they didn't come home.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But they didn't meet mom and dad.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Oh, anyway. All that matters is really how it turned out, right? This is the sibling. It's like, oh, you know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because Barack was—I was assigned to be his advisor. And that didn't mean I was his boss, but every—I was a first-year associate, so they tried to pair first years sort of with new summer associates just to— help get them acclimated and to kind of give them advice to sort of mentor them for the summer. So I was his mentor, mentor, right? So he comes in, he's late.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And we lived with our great aunt because it helped our parents save some money and get us in a better neighborhood. Because my father was a city worker. He was a working class guy, didn't have a college education. And working for the city was a really stable job because it gave you benefits and some stability there. And my mom wanted to stay home and raise kids.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So I'm thinking, okay, this guy's trifling because we didn't in the Robinson family, we didn't do late, but he was raining and he didn't have an umbrella. And so he was a little wet. Um, So I was a little annoyed, but he stood up, and he was tall, and he was more handsome than his pictures. So I sort of thought, oh, okay, and not what I expected.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So I took him around the office, got him settled into his office, took him out to lunch for that first day, and we talked for like hours. And I knew that we were going to be friends. He was smart, he was funny, had a good sense of humor, didn't take himself too seriously. So we clicked right off the bat. And over the course of the summer, we actually became really good friends.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I was even trying to introduce him to some of my friends, my girlfriends. saying there's this really cute guy who's my advisor. Because in my mind, there wasn't any way that the few Black associates there who both went to Harvard were going to date. In my mind, I was like, that's going to be tacky. That's expected, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I was just sort of into doing what wasn't, not doing the expected, right? So my mind went somewhere else. I was like, ah, meet all these wonderful, beautiful women that I know. you know? And after a couple of outings, he said, well, why don't we go out? And I was like, no way are we going to go out. That's just not going to happen. We are friends. And he was sort of like, huh, well, why?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And he made the case. I said, well— You know, I don't think it looks right. And he said, who cares about how it looks? And so he made his Barack Obama case over a couple of weeks. And finally, I was like, OK, we'll go out on one date. And so he planned. After that, it was over. It was a full day date where he pulled out all the stops we had. I'm sure I picked him up because I had the nice car.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And we went to the Art Institute where he showed me his suave, you know, view of art. And we had lunch at the museum. And then we walked from the Art Institute down Michigan Avenue north. So we walked hand in hand, talked slowly. And Then we went and had dinner on top of Lake Point Tower, which was a beautiful view of the city.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And then we, I think, ended the evening watching, going to Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing. So, I mean, he had planned everything. You know, culture, you know, art, you know, lovely stroll. And slowly I was like, OK, maybe I, you know, I spoke too soon. You know, maybe there is something more here. But yes, that's the long way of saying I did say no for a long time. a good month or two.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But by the end of the summer, we were, I think it was that summer, by the end of the summer, I was introducing him to my family.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So in order to save that kind of money, we band together and lived with our Aunt Robbie. And all of the adventures and the lessons learned, when I think about my foundational values, that house... Really, in all the experiences and conversations, the beginning of my kitchen table happened on 74th and Euclid. And I talk about it because you think it was a palace, but this was a little home.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I had no idea because I didn't know anything. But I started with what I, I had to spend some time thinking, journaling about what did I care about?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
What brought me joy? You know, of all the things that I was doing in my life, what was the thing when I had it on my calendar that I would jump out of bed for, that would change my the way I felt about the day. And it always had to, it went back to mentoring. Because while I was doing all this stuff in law, in my education, I was always finding ways to help younger kids understand how to get here.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So it was the mentoring piece that Craig mentioned. We never talked about that when we think about our parents. That brought me absolute joy. So I started really trying to listen to that self-interested part of me. It's like, what made me happy? I never asked myself that. I always did what I thought I was supposed to do. And making money was one of the things
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
you were supposed to do if you were anyone who had an opportunity to get an Ivy League education. That was really all they talked about. That's all they showed you. You know, there wasn't a course or a major in helping people. You know, there wasn't a course on working with young kids. You know, there's no major for that, especially in the Ivy Leagues. So I knew nothing about the nonprofit world.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I knew nothing about NGOs.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
That was close, right? Yeah, it was the same.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Oh, by then he had written his book because he was the president of the Harvard Law Review. The president of the Harvard Law Review is the top student at the top law school in the world. And he was the first black student to be elected president of the Harvard Law Review. And that garnered a lot of attention for him. We were dating at the time.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And so he got a book contract to write a story, Dreams from My Father, which I thought was, who writes a book at your age, right? But he was like, yeah, I might as well tell him a story. And it was money, right? He got it in advance and everything. We were engaged, so he was working on that project, but he was still trying to figure out what he was going to do.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And when you're the president of the Harvard Law Review, basically the world of law is open to you. The normal path is that you clerk for an appellate judge. for a year or two, and then you go on to clerk for the Supreme Court. Then you go on to do appellate work. You have offers from every law firm. You are in demand, or you can do policy or whatever. That was the normal path.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I was like, so are you going to clerk? He was like, well, why would I clerk? So he didn't work at any of the big firms. He went to a very small firm that was doing public interest work. So he wasn't making a lot of money. He was doing what I was doing. He was going the opposite direction of all the things that were supposed to make us money. But he was like, money isn't why I'm doing this.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
We shared a bedroom most of our lives because there just wasn't room for us to each have our own room. And we shared the space, one bathroom. There was no dining room. There was just a kitchen.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I'm trying to figure out how I can best use my skills to impact the most people. So he was doing... 50 million jobs. And we were cobbling together our payments for our student loans at the time, which were more than our mortgage. We had bought a condominium. We were on our way to building our lives together, but we were in deep debt.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So while we were both pursuing our deep love of being in the community, our incomes were going in the opposite direction of where they were supposed to go. But we were in this together. You know, politics hadn't really come into the fold yet. It wasn't a part of the conversation.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But we were both kind of on these parallel paths, kind of figuring out how do we take all these skills and all this energy and help people. I was working in the city. He was working everywhere else and writing a book. And we were just kind of, you know, we were sort of plotting ahead.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
For somebody with your personality in particular, my advice would be that, you know, I could see you thinking, you know, if I've got my stuff together and I've got my path going over here and you've got your path going on over there, you know, as long as we're both trudging along, you know, and pushing, we're going to be good. Right.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And generally that can work because you can be two independent beings out there with basically slaying your own dragons, right? Making the choices about which dragons you slay and how much armor you want to use. You're independent people, and that feels good right now. Until your first and most important joint project happened, which you told me you want, you have kids. Right.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
That's oftentimes when the rub happens, because when you bring life into the world, that's the project where you can't do that independently. You can't be on one path and your partner on another because raising those kids and making them as whole as you'd want them to be has so little to do with the dragon you're slaying now than it does with how you partner
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
and engage and make choices together on these little creatures that you're going to love more than anything in the world. And you're not going to want to get that project wrong, but you've got to work with your partner. You've got to communicate. And that's when it gets really hard.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah, yeah. Because when you're independent operators in the world, he's off, he's traveling, I'm traveling. Maybe I don't see him during the week. And then on Saturday, whoa, it's great. I love you. I missed you. This was so cool. Tell me about your life. And it's sexy and it's all of this, right? And you're moving and And you're also okay having a break.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It's like, let me miss you for a little bit. So I don't care that you're traveling or that you're everywhere.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But the minute there's a little baby that is waking someone up, and if there's one person that's carrying the burden of that, if one person's dream stops because they're taking on the lion's share of things and you're still going to the gym and you're still slaying your dragons at the same rate,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And you haven't looked over at your partner who maybe is now stuck at home because she's breastfeeding or she made a set of choices to make this little creature work. And you guys haven't had a conversation about that and what that balance looks like because you're just slaying your dragon at the same rate. oh, there's going to be problems, you know. There's going to be resentment.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
There's going to be fatigue. There's going to be measuring and counting and all the things. So I think it's just important to communicate now, to start doing the work of making sure that you guys are defining your one life together, that you're deciding together now what dragons are going to be slain and who gets to do what when, you know, and what does that feel like?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, are you going to be working all the time? Are you going to be traveling all the time on the road? Is she coming with you? How does she feel about that?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
No, because I didn't know that that was a thing that you had to worry about because when you're in the midst of it, when you're in the midst of pursuing your own independent journeys, it's beautiful, right? It is. It's like I'm independent. He's independent. We get along. And then all of a sudden someone's legs are cut up from under them, you know? Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, someone is making a different set of sacrifices that weren't negotiated. Because of children. Because of children, because of life.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It's the thing, you know, because we don't talk about our bodies and women's health and there's just not a lot of conversation about marriage or pregnancy or any of this. Our parents don't talk about it. Their parents before them don't talk about it. Right. So you imagine your life as you're checking boxes. I'm waiting. I've delayed having kids.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I found the love of my life and now I'm going to get pregnant. And no one tells you that there is really a biological clock. Like, that's not false, you know. We have partner in podcasts, Dr. Sharon Malone, who wrote a book, Grown Woman Talks, where she's talking, she's sort of ripping the curtain off of women's health questions.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And in a conversation with her, she reminded us that women, we are born with a finite set of eggs. And we don't get any more. And every month we're losing them. And so there is a period of time usually, and it's different for everyone, usually in your 30s where you go from fertile to not. And it's like falling off of a cliff. And I'm like, why didn't anybody tell me this?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Why weren't people talking about this? So by the time we started really trying, which worked perfectly for our careers and maturing and having everything set, right? Because that's what we're trying to get everything set. Unlike our parents who, you know, had us. We lived in a little bitty apartment, you know, one income. Our generation were worrying about, well, I want everything set.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I guarantee you, you have things way more set than any of our parents had before they started having kids. But we're waiting for everything to be perfect. No friction. We don't want any friction, right? And while we're waiting for our lives to be perfect, that biological clock is ticking. So you start trying, and it's not working. That's when you go to the doctor, and they tell you, oh—
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You're running out of eggs. This is normal. I mean, you're going to have trouble getting pregnant. And so try a little bit. And then now it's time for IVF, if you can afford it, which it wasn't covered by insurance at the time. You know, it's just a shock to the system. And as people who like learning and like knowledge, you really sort of feel gypped. Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, that why is this such a secret? Which is why I talk about it openly. And I talk about miscarriages because the other thing I learned is, like, most— pregnancies, a good percentage of them end in miscarriage. That people have been having miscarriages for years but not talking about it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So when it happens to you, a box checker, somebody that thought life was going to be so and you did all the right things, to have things not work out and to know that it was going to be that way and nobody told you so that you could be prepared for it, it was a blow. And then as a woman, you're walking around owning the blow as if it's your fault. And so you're carrying around that burden.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And that can become the first pressure point in a marriage. Because emotionally, you've got a woman that is carrying all of this, feeling like a failure, not having anyone to talk about, having her hormones go up and down, literally. Probably dealing with depression and maybe some postpartum. Still working, still slaying dragons, still on the path, but she's carrying it all on her own.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And then if you do IVF, the bulk of the work, the shots, we are the petri dish in the IVF process. You show up, you come in a cup, and ooh, yay, good for you, right? And you're a little mad about that, too, because women have to get shots every week. And you have to go back and forth in between having your job, your high-powered job, and keeping it all together.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You're at the doctor's office every month trying to count your eggs and hoping that you're producing eggs, and then you have to go through the procedure. And then you have to be pregnant for nine months, right? As your partner is going to the gym and keeping his figure and, you know, all of that, you know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So it's a long way of saying there are just many natural reasons why marriage, infertility, trying to have kids. makes things difficult. It's like, I try to tell couples, of course it's hard. Just listen to what I said, right? Like it's probably, if you're having some issues in your marriage, it's not you, it's the process of marriage.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It's just all hard because guess what happens when it all works out right? You know what you end up with? Babies. Little people with their own sense of everything. They mess you up. You love them dearly, but they're a hassle. And they're demanding. And they have their own whims. And now they're in your world, in your partnership. They are factored into everything.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So even when everything works out and you have the – 3.2 kids and you got everything right, it's still going to be hard because now you're developing a life, right? So I talk about these things because I think that people give up too quickly on marriage, right? because there is so much friction built in to the equation.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And if you're not getting help talking about it, going to therapy, just understanding how things are changing and how do you continuously renegotiate your relationship with your partner, I just see people quitting because they look at me and Barack and go, hashtag couple goals, you know? And I'm like, it's hard. It's hard for us too. But I wouldn't trade it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I think our parents modeled it. I mean, if I were to think of one word that would describe my father, he was just a decent man. Decent, honest, hardworking, and loyal, trustworthy. I mean, these were the kind of things that we talked about. We didn't have... material stuff. He couldn't provide that, but he provided a set of lessons about what it meant to be a good friend.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, he is, as the young people say, he is my person.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, there are the moments where I'm like, right? But was it real? No, no, no. There was never really a full moment. There were moments when I was resentful. There were moments when I was mad. There were moments when I didn't feel like I got enough attention. But it's like, don't you feel that in your relationship right now? Yeah. You know? Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So it's just me understanding, yeah, I was mad, but I forgot even why I was mad. Right? It's like, was I really that mad? Oh, did I say that? I'm sorry. I didn't really mean that. So no, in the end, you know, mm-mm.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
no we're you know and the beauty of my husband and my our partnership is that neither one of us was ever really ever gonna quit at it because that's not who we are and I know that about him he knows that about me you know um so no both of your lives change because of a decision that
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah, that was the problem. You know, I knew that—in my heart, I knew that he would make a phenomenal president. And as I've written in The Light— the truth was is that my initial reaction was like, oh, no, oh, my God, don't do this. It had everything to do with having the foresight of knowing what this would do to our lives.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I mean, I was projecting that if you win, which I thought he could and should, he would be somebody that I would want as my president. It was all about this is going to Our kids are little. We're going to have to move. How do you raise kids in the White House? It's dangerous as the first Black potential president. We knew there would be death threats. How would we afford it?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Because it's expensive to live in the White House. Many people don't know. I mean, much is not covered. You're paying for every food, every bit of food that you eat. You know, you're not paying for housing and the staff in it, but everything, even travel.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
If you're not traveling with the president, if your kids are coming on a Bright Star, which is the First Lady's plane, we had to pay for their travel to be on the plane. It is an expensive proposition, and you're running for two years and not earning an income. So all of that was in my mind. How would we manage this? So my fears came from the fact that I thought he could win.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Because maybe way in the back of my mind, I was hoping that maybe he wouldn't, that this would be the last thing he would do. But I knew he had it in him to make this happen.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
He was the elder in his family, the oldest of, what, five? And my mom was the middle child. And he took care of everyone, even though he had multiple sclerosis and walked with assistance. He had a cane when we were younger. I never knew my father to walk without the assistance of a cane. And MS was a progressive disease. So over the course of his life, he just got weaker and weaker and weaker.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I, you know, it wasn't very thoughtful. I told him that he definitely had to quit smoking because he was still toying with smoking. He was in it and not in it. And we had to have enough of a nest egg so that, you know, we could, that we wouldn't be just financially broke at the end of it. And, you know, I thought that that was going to cut it, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Because we weren't in really—we were just starting to make decision moves where we were covering the income that we lost making our purposeful moves. So I kind of thought that was going to be the deal breaker. But then he was chosen to give the speech at the Democratic National Convention, and he just blew up.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And as a result of that, and maybe I'm getting it out of order, Dreams for My Father went back on the bestsellers list. He wrote Audacity of Hope. So there was all this income that was being generated from his book sales. And he kind of looked at me like, I think we're okay. And I'm like, yeah. threats. So I didn't know enough to know what to ask for. I mean, we were flying blind.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I didn't know what that journey was going to be and what I would need to negotiate for myself. And that was a bit problematic. It was problematic not to know what I needed.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah. I was even trying to introduce him to some of my friends. He said, well, why don't we go out?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I should have... said that I needed his team to really, truly value that he had a family. You know, that I shouldn't have just said, well, this is what it takes to get this done. I mean, it was almost like the consultants that sit around. It was almost like this is the way it has to be. And remember, the legacy of presidential office doesn't recognize families. It is not designed, you know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You get in there and it all revolves around the commander-in-chief who has always been a man. And the whole system of it doesn't really take into account that there's a wife and kids and their needs and the demands on them. So I wound up having to fight for a lot of stuff online.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
on my own so if i had known these things and maybe maybe laura bush knew more than i did because the bushes had been in the white house maybe you know you know there's i think about maybe there's some world where people knew more about this thing than we did to understand the impacts but There are also generational differences.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I was a very different first lady, not terribly different from Hillary Clinton, but it was a different time. We had small kids in the White House, and that didn't happen often. There were just accommodations and ways that the West Wing did not think about or work to fully protect all of us in the process as a unit. And so if I had known what I knew now, I would have asked for different things.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But ultimately, I had to push to get the things that we needed to be able to operate as a family, even when it came down to how the Secret Service protected little kids, you know. The girls had to have a detail, right? So they started school in second grade and fifth grade in armed groups. cars with primarily men with guns going into a new school. Strangers that they did not know.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And the detail, they weren't practiced on going to Sidwell's second grade schoolyard. So We had to basically work on how do you do this for little kids, you know? So a lot of times details just flood through. They continuously move through.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But he was the strongest person in our orbit with everyone.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It was important for me that we find two detail leaders that stayed with the girls for most of their time until they became teenagers because it was sort of like – You know these people, right? At least they get to know. They couldn't just have strange men coming throughout. And we had to kind of fight for that. So that's just one example of the way
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
What living under those things and trying to raise small children, you know, the kind of things that the guys in the West Wing weren't thinking about as they were fixing the financial crisis and dealing with Syria and on and on and on. I was trying to make sure that our kids came out of that process not crazy and whole.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Never took a sick day. He was the father that fathered all the other kids in the neighborhood. So when Craig was playing basketball, he was the person that was at most of the practices if he could be, if his shift allowed. He was the dad in the neighborhood where a lot of kids didn't have those kind of role models. And even though we didn't have a lot,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Absolutely. Since stepping reluctantly into public life, I've been held up as the most powerful woman in the world and taken down as an angry black woman. I've wanted to ask my detractors which part of that phrase matters to them the most. Is it angry or black or woman?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I've smiled for photos with people who call my husband horrible names on national television, but still want a framed keepsake for their mantle. I've heard about the swampy parts of the Internet that question everything about me, right down to whether I'm a woman or a man. A sitting U.S. congressman has made fun of my butt. I've been hurt. I've been furious.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But mostly, I've tried to laugh this stuff off.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Mm-hmm.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, it goes back to what we learned earlier. I think I approach everything with empathy. And Barack does too. And he helps keep me in check because he is so smart and he believes in ideas and he understands context and history. You know, we are always putting these times, these moments into a greater context.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And there was never a time when my father wasn't going to help somebody. So I guess those values where you take care of people, money doesn't really matter. That's not the thing that makes you great. It's how you show up in the world. It's your word. It's how you treat other people.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
We're trying to understand where people's rage, ignorance, hatred, whatever it is, where it comes from. And it usually doesn't have anything to do with us. It has to do with the state of the world. And the world in this country is unfair for way more people than it is fair to. And it impacts people of all races. And folks are angry, and they're scared, and they don't have enough opportunity.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And when people are put in that position, they lash out. They're mean. That's when we otherize people because it gives us a sense of stability. We pick on someone. Someone has to be a little more oppressed than us. But that doesn't make what they say or feel true.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Just because you say it or think it about me and the way that I had to overcome the racist low expectations of us in our childhood, it's the same thing. It's like... You're not mad at me. You don't understand a lot about the world, and you've been told a lot of things about who people of my skin color are.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You've been taught to fear me because of the history of our country, because of what you're going through. And when you put yourself in other people's shoes— I do get why people are afraid. I do understand it. And also, Barack helps me remember, which I experienced myself. You know, he says this is still the country that elected Barack Obama twice. And people in this country are proud of that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
There is a very small percentage of people who would never, ever in their lifetime want a Black man to tell them how to get down the street to the grocery store, right? They can't hear it. But this country is bigger than that, right? And we saw it. We experienced it. As much hatred or, you know, conflict or ridicule, we had so much love, so much goodwill.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, so many people who tell us even today we miss you guys, you know, and it doesn't look like any, you'd be surprised at what corners of the world, and our daughters felt it and feel it, right? That is true, too.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
We are in a really tough time right now, and we are being led sadly by people who are not being, in my opinion, their best selves for whatever reasons they have, whatever is moving them to push this country in this direction, whatever hurts they have. Billionaires have their hurts too.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, business leaders, people in power who want power and haven't understood their why, you know, can lead us down some dark tunnels, right? But it's that empathy for me, that ability to kind of give it some perspective that allows me not to take all that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
hate in and to really you know see the light in people you know it's just a better way to live it keeps us from being embittered uh and it keeps us hopeful and it keeps us working for for people you know um so it's it's kind of a necessity to get through it marion your wonderful mother she was a prominent figure throughout that time in the white house oh yeah
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
For me, she continued to be that soft place to land, the place where she always saw me, always saw who I was. And she was that soft place for our girls. She was common sense right in the middle of the White House, in that big house. People, you know, just with her sheer presence and her wisdom, you know, that old-fashioned wisdom, she was the center of that house.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Everyone came to her door and sat in her room and sucked up her wisdom. The butlers, the, you know, the florists, the housekeepers, the chefs, everyone. You know, they were all mothered in some way by her. And so she was that for me, for sure.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
She's there. She is there. I see it in his face more. You know, you don't see yourself in your... Like, I don't think I look like him at all, right? But he looks just like my mother, right?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah. There was nothing left unsaid.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah, and there's just a peace.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I'm sure I have more than he does because he doesn't process stuff. He just keeps working through it. But, yeah, yeah, I think I've – for me, making choices for me, I feel like now I have permission to do what I want to do. I think part of our podcast is –
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
part of that legacy because at least for me as a woman, I think at 61, I'm finally owning my wisdom in a way that I don't, you know, I think it takes women until we're about 60 to be like, I think I know a thing or two. But that wisdom comes from her and she's our last line of elder wisdom. And so now we're up. We're next up, believe it or not. Me and Craig and our family, we're the ones.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So IMO, in my opinion, our podcast, is sort of that offering back. It's like, all right, let's keep up the mentoring that we were taught. You know, let's... let's create our table and be a place where people can come for the little bit of advice and conversation in the same way that you're doing, Stephen. It's like when you learn something,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
the way you hone in on it is that you keep teaching it to other people, right? You said that, right? And so this is sort of helping us continue to, you know, by helping others, which is a thing we both get great joy from, that mentoring, just being able to, you know, have this conversation here and maybe somebody's going to get something from it that I missed when I was their age. That...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
brings us joy. It's like we're here for a reason other than making a bunch of money and, you know, living a nice life or being famous. It's like maybe we can help somebody.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Absolutely.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Um... what do I want to do in this moment? As a box checking, a person who has been box checking her whole life, doing the right thing, trying to always be an example, always going high. I think now I earned a little bit about, well, how do I feel? Do I want to upend my life and and take this trip and leave my peace and my children for this. I didn't have to. That was my choice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I was not—I would have never made that choice. I would have always done what I thought was the right thing to do. for other people to set an example. And I think I just told myself, I think I've done enough of that. And if I haven't, then I never will. It'll never be enough. So let me start now. This is the perfect time to start. So yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
What I will say, you know me now well enough, Stephen, is if I were having problems with my husband, everybody would know about it. I'd be like, and let me tell you. And he would know it and everybody would know it. I'm not a martyr. I'm not, you know. And I would be problem solving in public and be like, let me tell you what he did.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah, I think I've kind of done that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Well, and knowing that, you know, it's not just unconditional love, but our parents believed us. They valued our voices. I mean, they really liked to hear us talk. They encouraged us to think out loud and to problem solve and to come to us with their problems but not be the ones that were going to solve it.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I think that's – Because we're not naming a who, I think it's the act of practicing setting boundaries, period, right? And I'm having that conversation with my daughters now. I mean, it takes a lot of work to learn how to say no and how not to be people pleasers, which I think there are more of us out there than we'd like to admit. It takes practice, and it takes decades of practice.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I am constantly giving my girls tips on how to do it, how to politely do it, how to you know, how to not jam yourself up, how to not say yes right away, how to take a moment and say, let me think about that. You know, some of a boundary is just saying, wait, I don't have to give you an answer right now. Let me go back and sit in it, in the request and figure out whether it works for me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And so many of us as pleasers, we're trying to give people an answer right away. And it's hard to look someone in the face and say no. So I think it takes practice, even practice in the wording of it. And then the older you get, the easier it gets, because guess what you realize? Your no doesn't usually change anyone else's life. They might be disappointed, but guess what?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
They will find the next person that they'll ask. The world continues. None of us are that important. and people can deal with a little disappointment every now and then.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But the next thing, you know, we were on our way to building our lives together. And my initial reaction was, don't do this. There'd be death threats. How do you raise kids in the White House? How would we afford it?
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It's been a pleasure.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And hopefully it won't be the last.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And this came in very handy when you're a kid in public school because, you know, in public school, south side of Chicago, teaching was kind of uneven. Right. You know, one year you'd get a teacher that cared and invested in the kids. Another grade, you'd have a teacher that didn't care. And I remember distinctly, I started second grade and I went to a classroom that was completely chaotic.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
The teacher clearly didn't want to be there. And I knew this in second grade. And there was no order. We didn't have homework. We weren't doing regular lessons. And I knew that something was wrong. And I would come home at lunch and I'd complain about nothing happened today at school, you know. And I don't know what second grade is supposed to be.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But I don't feel like I'm getting what I need to get out of second grade. It took a month of coming home and complaining. And my mom was quietly listening. But she wasn't just listening. She was plotting. And it was a month in. She went up to the school, watched herself, and saw that this teacher not only wasn't teaching, but it appeared that she didn't even like kids.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
So she went to the principal's office and talked. read them the RIOT Act. I don't know what she said or what she did, but three of us were pulled out of the class for testing. And I just remember, I just didn't have to go into that class. And I spent a couple of weeks taking some specialized tests. We were just doing bubble tests. Didn't know what it was.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Got the results, and the results proved that I could skip second grade. And it was a lifesaver for me. But I'll never forget, my mom finally did, I would hear her complaining to my dad, this teacher, you know, these teachers who don't care about these kids. She had gotten us out, but she was worried about the kids who were stuck in that second grade class.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
who didn't have parents who were their advocates, who were going to spend probably a wasted year in second grade missing whatever they were going to miss. But that was one of those instances where I knew that if a cry for help from me was heard by my mother and acted upon, she could have been one of those mothers who said, well, just, you know, life is life, just get it together.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
But she knew there was something different there. and what I wanted and what I needed. And she made it happen.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It probably does. I mean, I still think about the kids who were left behind. I mean, there's just something that really touches me about kids who are as bright as we are because we grew up with them. You know, my mother saw them. And the only difference between me and them was that they had a mother that cared. And a lot of their lives look totally different from ours because of that.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I didn't know what that journey was going to be and what I would need to negotiate for myself. And if I had known what I know now, I should have said... Michelle, I was watching the coverage of your decision to not go to Trump's inauguration.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
And I find myself being that advocate for those kids, the kids who are underestimated and under-supported. And that turns out to be kids, most kids all over the world. So I do find that that moment for me was a defining in a pretty fundamental way about how I how I fight for kids in the way that I saw my mom fight for me.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Eighth, seventh or eighth grade, yeah, yeah.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
I think there was a lot of race pride in our family. There was this feeling, this understanding that because of people's prejudice, there would be a lot of white people that would underestimate you, that would mistreat you, that would assume things about you. Our family, our entire family on both sides,
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Really smart, talented, gifted people to have a family that big, but all working class people, right? So we lived among sort of real regular excellence, you know? I mean, people who were teachers and who were engineers. All of our cousins were people who were expected to do well in school. So we were taught, like, no one's better, smarter than you. You know, you're capable.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
My father was that voice for a lot of our cousins if they didn't have that kind of energy in their lives. It was always like, you got this and you know what you're doing. So in our home, there was race pride. But when you... When we moved into South Shore, into Robbie's house, our Aunt Robbie's house, most of my neighborhood friends were white kids.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
The truth was is that...
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Rachel Dempsey and Susan Yakker and Sophonat Consapant, who was a Korean girl because we lived by a hospital and her mother was a nurse. So it was a very mixed—the stewards who were— You know, they were a Black family but could pass for white. I mean, it was just sort of some of everyone in the neighborhood.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
Miss Mason, who was the little old white lady across the street, and our neighbors were the Mendozas, the Mexicans. You know, it was sort of everywhere, all around us. And everyone got along. Neighbors knew one another. We played with each other. I went to Rachel's house for lunch. But then one year, it was like the lights went off for the white people and they were gone without a trace.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
They called this white flight. This was white flight and action.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
It's the sociological occurrence of what happens in communities when black people sort of start making their way up socioeconomically and can buy homes or rent homes in neighborhoods that are predominantly white. So instead of white people accepting it, they sell their homes en masse. There's a sort of undercurrent of we better get out because these black families coming in
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
are going to ruin the neighborhood and bring down property values. So you better sell now and go further south into the southern suburbs. And so when you're young, you kind of know something is going on. You know, it's not like we were sitting around the kitchen table talking about white flight. But what you do know and you take in as a child is, like, these people are running from us.
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!
You know, it's like my dad. Who is this, you know, amazingly kind and generous person who would have been good for a lot of these people's kids, these white folks' kids, to get to know and be around us who turned out to be who we were and we were always going to be that. You're running for up from us. Well, our feeling was like, well, how stupid is racism?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tucker Carlson on Michelle Obama, Newsom and AOC, and Fentanyl Crisis in America, with Billy Baldwin and Dr. Robert Marbut | Ep. 1060
This current climate for me, it's what's happening to immigrants. So it's not the fear for myself anymore. I drive around in a four-car motorcade with a police escort. I'm Michelle Obama. I do still worry about my daughters in the world, even though they are somewhat recognizable. So my fears are for what I know is happening out there in streets all over the city.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tucker Carlson on Michelle Obama, Newsom and AOC, and Fentanyl Crisis in America, with Billy Baldwin and Dr. Robert Marbut | Ep. 1060
And now that we have leadership that is sort of indiscriminately determining who belongs and who doesn't, and we know that those decisions aren't being made with courts and with due process and that it's being made like this cop that pulled my brother over when he was 12. You don't look like somebody that belongs.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tucker Carlson on Michelle Obama, Newsom and AOC, and Fentanyl Crisis in America, with Billy Baldwin and Dr. Robert Marbut | Ep. 1060
I can determine just by looking at you that you're a good person or you're not a good person. And knowing that there's so much bias and so much racism and so much ignorance that fuels those kind of choices. I worry for people of color all over this country. And I don't know that we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that makes me, that frightens me. It keeps me up at night.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tucker Carlson on Michelle Obama, Newsom and AOC, and Fentanyl Crisis in America, with Billy Baldwin and Dr. Robert Marbut | Ep. 1060
How do you feel comfortable going to work, going to school, when you know that there could be people out here judging you and who could upend your life in a second? that, you know, that that that's who I worry for right now. There's so much in there, Tucker.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Tucker Carlson on Michelle Obama, Newsom and AOC, and Fentanyl Crisis in America, with Billy Baldwin and Dr. Robert Marbut | Ep. 1060
Right, left, right, left.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
We grew up with women who weren't voicing the pain and the burden. They made it look easy. And when you make stuff look easy, people assume that you must like this. It's okay with you, right? We don't articulate as Black women our pain because it's almost like nobody ever gave us permission to do that. And does anyone care? Yeah, there's that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
Or, you know, and we have to ask ourselves, the men in our lives is, you know, why wait to be asked?
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
You know, it seems like what we go through is pretty obvious. I mean, maybe we're not complaining, but we're actually living life out loud.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
Um, so I'm at this stage in life where I have to define my life on my terms for the first time. So what are those terms? And going to therapy just to work all that out. Like what happened that eight years that we were in the White House? What did that do to me?
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
Internally, my soul, we made it through. We got out alive. I hope we made the country proud. Oh my God. My girls, thank God, are whole. But what happened to me?
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
You know, and also as black women, we are so easily labeled as angry and bitter. And let me tell you some of the most hurtful stuff that I experienced, you know, entering this life of public service at the heights that we entered into was during my husband's presidential campaign.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
And just me telling the truth of who we were, you know, you know, just humanizing him as a man saying he's, you know, he's a great man, but he's not perfect. You know, he's got his foibles and his flaws trying to humanize him. The first thing that some female journalist said was that I was bitter. I was I was emasculating him. just by sort of trying to tell the truth about what life is, right?
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
And then you get labeled as angry because you talk forcefully or passionately about something, even if it's in the context of great joy and pride that the first label they put on us as Black women
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
I am probably less light than many of my white female friends. I see that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
L-I-G-H-T. Because I say this a lot. I mean, I see the difference in some of my white female friends. I see a lightness, an ability to be in the world and see what's going on, but still be... not as burdened about it as I think I am.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
I think that what I see happen in the news, the assault on immigration rights, the challenges that face our community, the inequality, I think it burns at me in a different way.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
But then this is what makes it hard because, you know, my decision to skip the inauguration, you know, what people don't realize or my decision to make choices at the beginning of this year that suited me were met with such ridicule and criticism. Like people couldn't believe that I was saying no for any other reason that they had to assume that my marriage was falling apart, you know.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
It's like, while I'm here really trying to own my life and intentionally practice making the choice that was right for me. And it took everything in my power. to not do the thing that was right or that was perceived as right, but do the thing that was right for me. That was a hard thing for me to do. I had to basically trick myself out of it. And it started with not having anything to wear.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
I mean, I had affirmatively, because I'm always prepared for any funeral, anything. I walk around with the right dress. I travel with clothes just in case something pops off. So I was like, if I'm not going to do this thing, I got to tell my team I don't even want to have a dress ready. Yeah. Right. Because it's so easy to just say, let me do the right thing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
But what I'd love to do was always make things in my kitchen, do small flower arrangements, pick a lot of jam. And when I was sending those as gifts, one day Bella said, there's a show here. And I hadn't at the onset thought that that was something that I wanted to share in that way.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
And creatively, we worked as partners to really find a way for it to land and for me to be able to share it and just have fun. which is really, I think, the goal in this chapter.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
Oh, thank you for asking that. Well, look, I think part of, for me, part of what's really, really important is that love language of taking care of people also really feeds me. And I think that is, in many ways, part of my self-care.
The Megyn Kelly Show
60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain | Ep. 1056
Husband is alive. That's all I can say. What?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
It's projecting that if you win, which I thought he could and should, he would be somebody that I would want as my president. It was all about this is going to, you know, our kids are little. We're going to have to move. How do you raise kids in the White House? It's dangerous as the first black president. potential president. We knew there'd be death threats. How would we afford it?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
Because it's expensive to live in the White House. Many people don't know. I mean, much is not covered. You're paying for every food, every bit of food that you eat. You're not paying for housing and the staff in it, but everything, even travel. If you're not traveling with the president, if your kids are coming on a Bright Star, which is the first lady's plane, we had to pay for their travel.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
to be on the plane. It is an expensive proposition and you're running for two years and not earning an income. Single tier? What do you make of it?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
There are just many natural reasons why marriage, infertility, trying to have kids, makes things difficult. It's like, I try to tell couples, of course it's hard. Just listen to what I said, right? Like it's probably, if you're having some issues in your marriage, it's not you, it's the process of marriage. It's just all hard because guess what happens when it all works out, right?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
You know what you end up with? Babies. Little people with their own sense of everything. They mess you up. You love them dearly, but they're a hassle.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
For sure. Can you explain how important it is to be able to tease people that you love? Oh, my God. This is funny because both Barack and Craig will say that I don't let them tease me. See, we have a deal, Barack and I, in our marriage, and it started very early. It's like, I can tease you, but you cannot tease me. You know, so when he does, I was like, oh, wait a minute. What's going on here?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump's Appeal to Working Class, and Michelle Obama's Wild Marriage Rule, with Sean O'Brien and RealClearPolitics Hosts | Ep. 1073
And he's like, I'm teasing you. Right. I was like, none of that. Because he likes to tease. Oh, my God. Yeah. But when me, Malia and Sasha are all of us are together, he doesn't stand a chance. We mercilessly go after him.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Couldn't have gotten through eight years in the White House without my big brother. That's another sort of unusual aspect to our lives. Our relationship was this whole, you know, being married to the president of the United States thing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
That none of us kind of banked on. I mean, we knew Barack was smart and, you know, ambitious. But, you know, I think... But you talked me into supporting his run.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And he was smart enough to know that he needed to come to you and sell you on the idea.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
When a girlfriend comes to visit, it's usually like, you've got to stay for two days. Because it's going to take us two days to check up. Now, Barack has come in. He's come out. And he's like, y'all still talking? He'll sit down for five minutes and be like, how are the boys? And the flip side, my husband, right? Because he golfs.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
And golfing takes as long as the first session of our, you know, it takes five hours to golf. He'll golf with his buddies, come back and be like, how's X? He's good. He's like, what y'all talk about? Nothing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
You know, some people react like, oh, you're doing a podcast with your brother? Why would you do that? I know, really. But our dynamic is so, in my view, unique. I think there are plenty of siblings who have great relationships. But, you know, I think when we think back to where that came from, we think about... I think about just the physical closeness that we had. I mean, we weren't wealthy.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Dem Party Imploding, Michelle Obama's Failing Podcast, and Debating Khalil Deportation, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1028
Right. And... Dad was working class. We lived in the same apartment our whole lives and had to grow into that. And as a result, you and me, we were physically close growing up.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
But then this is what makes it hard because, you know, my decision to skip the inauguration, you know, what people don't realize, or my decision to make choices at the beginning of this year that suited me were met with such ridicule and criticism. Like people couldn't believe that I was saying no for any other reason that they had to assume that my marriage was falling apart, you know? Right.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
That was a hard thing for me to do. I had to basically trick myself out of it. And it started with not having anything to wear. I mean, I had affirmatively, because I'm always prepared for any funeral, anything. I walk around with the right dress. I travel with clothes just in case something pops off. Mm-hmm.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
So I was like, if I'm not going to do this thing, I got to tell my team, I don't even want to have a dress ready, right? Because it's so easy to just say, let me do the right thing.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
We grew up with women who weren't voicing the pain and the burden. They made it look easy. And when you make stuff look easy, people assume... that you must like this. Yeah. It's okay with you, right? Right. You know, we don't articulate as Black women our pain because it's almost like nobody ever gave us permission to do that. And does anyone care? Yeah, there's that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
Or, you know, yeah, and we have to ask ourselves, the men in our lives is... you know, why wait to be asked? You know, it seems like what we go through is pretty obvious. I mean, maybe we're not complaining, but we're actually living life out loud. She went on to lament how hard she had it in the White House those eight years. So
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
I'm at this stage in life where I have to define my life on my terms for the first time. So what are those terms? And going to therapy, just to work all that out. Like, what happened that eight years that we were in the White House? What did that do to me internally, my soul? We made it through. We got out alive. I hope we made the country proud. My girls, thank God, are whole.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Trump Pushes for Peace, DNC Civil War Over Hogg, Michelle's Inauguration Excuse: AM Update 4/25
But what happened to me?
The Megyn Kelly Show
New Details About Biden Coup, CNN Loses Millions in Defamation Case, and Obama Drama, with Maureen Callahan | Ep. 985
How's our former president doing? He's doing okay. He's doing all right. Yeah, yeah. He's still working too hard, you know. But I think that's something he will always do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was our anniversary date. But he's doing well, working hard on the Obama Presidential Center. So we've been able to get some fun dates. That picture was us at the U.S.
The Megyn Kelly Show
New Details About Biden Coup, CNN Loses Millions in Defamation Case, and Obama Drama, with Maureen Callahan | Ep. 985
Open, and that was the first time he got to go to the U.S. Open in person. But he's working hard on the Obama Presidential Center, which is on the south side of Chicago. I love that. Yeah. We're going to head to the island for a little sun. Nice. Ooh, that's the way to spend the Christmas. I like that. I know. I tell you, that's why you got to pick your husband right. Okay. You know? Okay.
The Megyn Kelly Show
New Details About Biden Coup, CNN Loses Millions in Defamation Case, and Obama Drama, with Maureen Callahan | Ep. 985
It's like he got a lot cuter when I found out he was from Hawaii. I was like, oh, okay. That is funny.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Schumer Caves in Budget Battle, Putin Playing Hardball, Michelle Obama Podcast Flop: AM Update 3/14
A lot of people have questions they want to know, especially when they see somebody of note with a platform who, you know, by every measure looks successful. The people, you know, they want to hear some honest kind of conversation about how people are working it through.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Schumer Caves in Budget Battle, Putin Playing Hardball, Michelle Obama Podcast Flop: AM Update 3/14
When a girlfriend comes to visit, it's usually like, you've got to stay for two days. Because it's going to take us two days to check up. Now, Barack has come in. He's come out. And he's like, y'all still talking? He'll sit down for five minutes and be like, how are the boys? Because he golfs. It takes five hours to golf. He'll golf with his buddies, come back, and be like, how's X? He's good.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Schumer Caves in Budget Battle, Putin Playing Hardball, Michelle Obama Podcast Flop: AM Update 3/14
He's like, what did y'all talk about?
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Sex and the City Poisoned a Generation of Women, Michelle Obama's Ego, and Hillary's Phony Feminism
Right.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Sex and the City Poisoned a Generation of Women, Michelle Obama's Ego, and Hillary's Phony Feminism
And I was like, do you know who I am? I'm Michelle Obama. People line up for my advice. And you're walking away like I'm stupid. It's like, I've written books. I've given speeches. The whole world has listened to me, and I can't get you to just do what I told you to do yesterday. No.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Sex and the City Poisoned a Generation of Women, Michelle Obama's Ego, and Hillary's Phony Feminism
Totally.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Sex and the City Poisoned a Generation of Women, Michelle Obama's Ego, and Hillary's Phony Feminism
I do.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Downward Spiral of Michelle Obama and Prince Harry, and Megyn Kelly Dishes on Diddy
And at this phase of my life, I'm in therapy right now because I'm transitioning. I'm 60 years old. I've finished a really hard thing in my life with my family intact. I'm an empty nester. My girls are in... They've been launched. And now for the first time, as I've said before, every choice that I'm making is completely mine.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Downward Spiral of Michelle Obama and Prince Harry, and Megyn Kelly Dishes on Diddy
I now don't have the excuse of, well, my kids need this or my husband needs that or the country needs that.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Downward Spiral of Michelle Obama and Prince Harry, and Megyn Kelly Dishes on Diddy
Yes.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Downward Spiral of Michelle Obama and Prince Harry, and Megyn Kelly Dishes on Diddy
I guess if anything, with mom's loss, I think that that, thank God you're my big brother. And I have a husband who's older because Barack was saying, you know, well, you're next up. And I was like, I'm not really ready to be next up. So I told him, you're next up.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Welcome back, my friend. We have some big guests today. Former First Lady Michelle Obama and her big brother, Craig Robinson, are on the School of Greatness to really open up and share in ways they've never shared before. Both of them dive in deep. about growing up in a small Chicago apartment together with parents who instilled unwavering confidence in them.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You were a professional. You got drafted.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's five on five is two on two.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
She reflects on her time right now in therapy and all the lessons that she's been experiencing and learning about with herself and reflecting on the past 10, 20, 30 years. The whole conversation is inspiring. They both share things I've never heard them share before. And I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation again.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah, yeah. Like for your audience. My best friend Matt is that way. See, Louis knows.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
If he wasn't... I'm just saying, if it hadn't worked out, I might not have kept dating.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Really?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You know, I don't know.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
If your brother would have said something about, you know, his character was really nasty, like he was really mean, he'd get in fights. They wouldn't have gotten married. Really?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I would have addressed it. I would have, I would have had the conversation. It's like, sorry, I hear you were kind of a jerk on the court. What's that about? Right. Why would you do that? Or, you know, I mean, I would have had a discussion and then I probably would have been looking for other signs. He didn't show it.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
He, you know, he, his, the outcome of that pickup game was consistent with what I was seeing. That's good. Right.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
His behavior matches words. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Um, so it's, and, and it's continued to be that way. I mean, Barack is who he appears to be, you know, you know, and he shows up well, he's somebody you want on your team. And that was, that was important to know in a, as a, as a, as a woman who grew up in sports culture, right. That's important. You know, that's a value that I hold dear.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's something that's something I respect, not just in my male friendships, but in all my friendships. Are you who you say you are? Do you show up well? Do you are you a team player? So, yeah, that's beautiful.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's beautiful. Great story. I love that. But growing up, you know, you guys, I think I heard you say in your podcast, which is an amazing show. I want people to go download it and watch it. But you're talking about you grew up in a one bedroom apartment together, essentially with like a living room as your guys' bedroom up until you went to high school. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So you shared a room for like 10, 12 years together. Oh, yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Make sure to share this with one or two friends that you know, someone that you want to inspire, someone that you care about. Send them a link to this episode and make sure to follow Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We'll have their social media and their podcast linked up. on the description of this episode. I'm so excited about this. I hope you enjoy. Let me know your thoughts online.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But our father was, he was a city worker. He's a blue collar city worker, worked for the water filtration plant. And we lived off of his salary until I went to high school because my parents thought it was important for my mom to stay home. So in order to make that work, and my father was very financially responsible, even though he didn't earn a lot of money. And they made sacrifices.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So their view was it doesn't matter the size of the house. It's more important for you to have your mother there who is, you know, so we could come home for lunch. And she was a room parent and she knew our friends. And but we didn't have a lot of money. We didn't grow up with stuff.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And so, you know, when I talk about this with parents, when, you know, you hear young people waiting, it's like, well, I want to make sure I have a 6,000 square foot house and that we have savings for college already lined up before I can even think about getting married.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
you know, my, that, that wasn't what made us who we were, you know, um, and, and living in that little bitty space with four people in one bathroom, um, that built character for us and it created a level of closeness and intimacy. And it, it's a reminder to us today that no matter how successful we get, um, home is about who's there, not where we are. Um,
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
which was something I had to overcome with the idea of moving into the white house, which was amongst my biggest fears when Barack said he was going to run. I was like, if you win, how, how can we raise a family in that environment? You know, that's, that's not normal to us. Um, that weightiness was not to me something that, you know, could sustain a healthy family.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And I worried about it, the weight, the weight of it all, the weight of it all. Um, But what I came to learn even in that environment, that it wasn't the house, big as it is, it was us in that house. So we had to find a way. And, you know, creating family is doing it in a small way. You know, if you think about it, it's like it's creating closeness.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
When you listen, please share it with a friend. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with Craig Robinson and the former first lady, Michelle Obama. Welcome, everyone, to the School of Greatness. We have Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson in the house. Thank you guys for being here. Very excited. Thanks for having us. Thank you. This is awesome. Excited. Very excited.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's what everybody in families, they gather in the kitchen, right? I mean, in real close households, no matter how big the house is, everybody's in the kitchen because if they're really talking and wanting to connect, they want to be with each other, right? And it was that way in the White House.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
We would all wind up gathering this one center space, no matter what was going on, especially if Craig was over, you know, we wanted to be together. So you, you know, it doesn't matter if you have 6,000 square feet or 600 square feet. Wow.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You know, the kitchen, we gather the kitchen because we're always hungry, right? You know what I'm saying? We're always going there and then everyone else follows us and like, hey, you want to hang out with us? We're in the kitchen. Here's what I'm curious about, Michelle, and both of you, both of you have had successful careers, right? And made big impacts in the world in your own way.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
How did you build belief in yourself that you were worthy of the success at such a high level? You as a coach and in the business world and the NBA and even going from a small little apartment with both of you to being in the most iconic house in the world. Like, how do you believe that? You're deserving and worthy of that life when you come from such smaller, humbler beginnings.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Well, it's a step-by-step process. And if you got good, smart parents like we did, you know, who don't even know what's coming, but they understand, they understood for us that they wanted to make us feel that way at our little kitchen table. So you begin feeling that because you feel it. You see your excellence in the eyes of your parents.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Like we have parents that really thought we were smart and funny and interesting. And, and they reflected that back to us. They, they wanted to hear what we thought they wanted. So we grew up thinking we're so funny. You know, we're so interesting. You know, I know you want to hear what I have to say. I know I'm five, but let me tell you my opinion about these things. Right. So it starts there.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And especially when you're poor black kids. From, you know, on the south side of Chicago, I think our parents knew that what was coming for us was the absolute different message. Interesting. That at every turn, what was awaiting us, regardless of who we were, there were going to be teachers and people who would be constantly lowering our bars for us anyway.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So I think they fueled us with a level of can-do-it, must-do-it-ness. Interesting. That would give us a kind of armor as we went out and sort of started getting dinged.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
In the world. In the world. Yeah, yeah. So what are they instilling you to keep your self-confidence high when the world was trying to take you down?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Interesting. What would that look like?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You're in a brand new studio at the School of Greatness. It's good looking. Beautiful. Elegant. Beautiful, elevated. We've got an amazing team that helps set this up. And one of the things that, right? Fake fireplace going over here. I started the School of Greatness 12 years ago because I wanted to learn the lessons that I feel like I didn't learn in school. Okay.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
They yelled at you.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And as mom said, she tried to do the opposite of what was done for her because she came out of a generation of, of that generation of, you know, They didn't know what they were doing with parenting. There was no philosophy. Kids were seen but not heard. There was no conscious parenting. There was no conscious parenting. And our parents were smart people.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
They weren't college educated, but they could have been. My mother could have been a teacher. She could have been a professor. She just didn't – there was no pathway that she saw for herself. So just like all of us, I mean, while there's some insecurity there – There's also in each of us this level of, I know more than they're giving me credit for, right? I think it's already there.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And then it gets beaten out of you. It gets abused out of you. There are other things that get in the way. I think my mother always felt like every kid has the power and the ability to learn if you get out of their way. And if you fuel it and you don't suffocate it, And my parents were sane people and just we were blessed in that.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And so that established a foundation for us to then go out in the world with this belief of I'm pretty confident and competent. Because that's what our parents get. And they forced us to be that way. And every time you succeed, you know, and sometimes we rob kids of that parents today because we're trying to make sure kids don't fail. We're trying to avoid our hurt and our embarrassment.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
with them failing. So we never let them, we never really hand them their lives. And so they don't get those experiences. And so they miss out on those early, you know, sort of building blocks of confidence that you need. Our parents handed that to us. That's beautiful. And so then, there were the experiences that went along with it. We were, we came into the world as good people, polite kids.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
We knew how to engage with teachers. That multiplies that confidence and competence because, you know, teaching your kid how to be socialized helps them because better socialized kids, they get better feet back from the world.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That I wanted to learn how to overcome insecurity, how to deal with failure, how to deal with navigating intimate breakups and getting into relationships consciously and all these things that school didn't teach me. You guys both went to Ivy League schools. Yes. And you have done incredible things since college.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yes.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And we were always the kids that the teachers liked and loved. And so now you get a little bit of that. And then now you learn how to do that. Right. And then so you just keep succeeding. And for me, one of the aha moments was actually going to Princeton because I wasn't confident then. because I wasn't a great test taker. I was a great grade getter, but I wasn't good on SAT.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So I had good grades, not great scores. So all the scores said, you don't belong at Princeton. And there were people who saw me, saw the color of my skin and said, you're aiming too high, right? So luckily he went.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Imagine going to these schools, being told that you're not ready. And that was my first insecurity of thinking, well, maybe I don't belong here. And that's the world telling you that you don't belong, even though it's like, well, all my experiences up until this point say that why wouldn't I belong here?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So how did you overcome that belief that you don't belong or that other people are telling you you don't belong?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I got there and I looked around and went, oh my God.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Sat in a few classes and sort of realized that affirmative action isn't just the color of your skin, but there were a lot of kids that were legacy kids. They were athletes. They were, it was like, and then you sit in class with people, a lot of bright people, but there were a lot of people that were just... So you wonder, well, how'd you get here? You know, who told you you were ready, right?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And then doing well in that environment. For me, it sort of took the curtain off of this elitism.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It lifted the veil.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It lifted the veil. That's the phrase I was trying to come up with. It lifted the veil for me in a pretty... So if I'm here at the top schools... in the world and I am succeeding, then all this other stuff is a lie.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Interesting.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You telling me that I can't, this is the scam. Like you want me to think I don't belong here when I actually do. And so that was the first step of, let me just, let me trust my gut again. Let me go back to the foundation, the things that my parents were telling me that I thought maybe they just loved me. and start believing what's actually happening in the world. Let me trust my experiences.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Interesting. And so I experienced my way into confidence. And the White House is just another Princeton, right?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But what I'm curious about is what is one lesson each one of you has taught each other as adults that you didn't learn in school? Craig, I'll start with you. The biggest lesson that Michelle has taught you as an adult that you didn't learn in school? I will tell you...
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Really?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And the experience was just the same. You have a lot of people saying that there's no way that this black couple is capable of representing our country You know, they are not patriotic. Look at their fist bump. You know, did she really get into Princeton? Is he really from this country? You know, did he really go to Harvard?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Is his, you know, it's the same kind of, because we can't see past our own prejudice. Let's question, because we were told that there is an order and that you don't belong at the top. You know, and what I soon realized is that's not about me. That's about them, which goes back to what we learned at our kitchen table.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's like you cannot base who you are and how you think of yourself on what anybody else other than who's at this table and knows you thinks, because everybody's bringing their own stuff to their opinion of who you are. So you have to do the work and let your work speak for itself.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's fascinating because if you're at, you know, the position you're in for eight years during that time, how are you able to keep the core nucleus of your closest friends and family to just only focus on what they think of you rather than what the world thinks of you, both at the extreme high, high and others extreme critical? Like, how did you not...
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Own your own hype of half the world or whatever, or most of the world. And then the extreme criticism.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Like you can't listen to either. Interesting. And so that's not to say that I didn't look at any press. I, you know, especially when you're campaigning, you can't help but know what things are. But what I learned was that I have to filter it. So the beauty of being in the White House is you have a comms team, a communications team.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And I just get to the point where tell me the things that are objectively are things that I need to hear. And I just had to practice. And I wasn't always good at it because I'd look through the clips. I'd look at stories every now and then. I'd dig a little too deep, you know. Good and bad.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah. Feed the ego and then also the criticism.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Exactly. And it's like, well, I can't believe one and not the other. So let me just do the work. So I tried to develop a habit of getting my information not firsthand, but thirdhand. So my comms director, tell me in this meeting what I need to know. what I need to be paying attention to.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
If there's an article or something about the girls or something that I need to know in preparation for this speech, give me that information. So I do what I tell young people do. Do not read the comments section. You know, just don't go there. If you're in social media and you're doing this work, do not let that stuff feed you.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You have to be disciplined enough to just put your head down and do the work and let the work speak for you. So I would read things about the work. You know, did the speech work? Is the program working? Is it having impact? But all the other stuff, the op-eds and the commentary, it's like good and bad. I can't take it in because it would cloud the work.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's interesting. And so it's really about, you know, was I effective? That's right. And as a coach, you're seeing, were we effective? Maybe it wasn't pretty. Maybe it wasn't perfect. But did we accomplish our goal? Did we win the game? Did we move the initiative forward? That's right.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And really not looking at the praise or the feedback too strongly as well on either spectrum, which I'm hearing you say is you had to regulate your emotions. Yeah. And it's something you probably have to do. As a coach. As a coach is like get student athletes or athletes to not react when someone gut punches them under the, you know, it doesn't get called the foul. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And also not own their own hype too much.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's going to be bad.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
The criticism. Yes, yes. Yeah, the critiques. And I also, I got to ask you off camera, did I hear you also played with Jordan when he came back? Yeah. I mean, I'm happy to tell. I mean, you can share real quick.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
What a cool experience.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And Michelle and Craig offer powerful insights on building self-belief, raising grounded children amid privilege and maintaining your core values through life's most extreme challenges. In this conversation, they discuss navigating the pressures of the White House while remaining authentic to themselves and their perspectives on emotional regulation during high stress situations.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You guys probably heard about him kind of like growing up and all this stuff. You were in that world.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Great time to be in Chicago.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Amazing. You guys were living the dream. Yeah. Now, I'm curious about this, Michelle. I'm curious. Did you ever struggle with your mental health while you were in the White House? Did you ever feel like the pressure is too big, the anxiety is too much, or I'm having the weight of it all was too much? Or do you feel like you were pretty steady throughout the whole time?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah, I mean, I think we were surprisingly equipped for it. You know, and that's not to say that I didn't have my bad moments. We didn't have our bad days. We did, you know, but... I didn't feel like we can't do this. We'll never make it through this. That's not, first of all, how we were raised. Right. I mean, you're in it. We're going to make this. It's going to work.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
We're going to we're going to show up every day. Every day we're going to show up. And you also, I found that it's important for me and Barack to keep our sanity, our even keelness, because we were raising little kids.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Gosh, that's got to be so challenging. Like being a parent without the world looking at you constantly and having to make big decisions every day has got to be one of the most challenging things ever, right? But then doing it, and how can you be a great parent?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
mom a great wife a great you know leader in the world as well and take care of your health and your mindset like how do you do all that at once while raising kids but it also helps to have them because guess what kids are they're a big distraction and they're very self-centered
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And they're very much about, you know, okay, dad, that's nice about the Middle East, but let me tell you about little Susie from what we did. I mean, they keep you grounded. You got to be in the present. You got to be in the present. That's where they are. It's like, I don't really know who Putin is, but let me tell you about his journey. Okay. I mean, their worlds are real.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And it was Barack, you know, he reveled in that normalcy. Really? Just coming home from a day at the office, you know, and being able to sit down with two chatty little girls and hear about their lives and remind them what's important. Right. That helped. So it was a stress, but it was also a very grounding thing.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And it probably brought a lot of joy to your life, too. It's like when you're dealing with heavy, stressful things all day long, to have children bring love and joy and play and just wonder. Yeah. You know, more of like what Craig brings to the world, right? Just that joy-like curiosity and awe in the moment.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
One of the best stories about my husband is that he became a coach during his White House years. He coached Sasha's fourth grade basketball league, the Vipers. Really?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So he didn't start out as the coach, but we signed her up for rec basketball. And it's at some local YMCA in Chevy Chase. And of course, we're going to the games because... It's basketball. Of course, you have to go.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Okay.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And it's my baby.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
He's got one, then maybe we'll do it, right? So we're all going to the games. And also on the team was Maisie Biden, Joe Biden, the then vice president's granddaughter. The Biden girls and our girls grew up together forever. Friends, so imagine that rec league on any given Sunday because we all went, right? President, the vice president, first, second lady. Two details.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
No, like eight details because all the clubs had details.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
They got their own bodyguards also.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
ambulance, helicopters, SWAT people all over the gym, right? It's like a little middle school gym, like, yeah, two rafters, like nothing, yeah. And of course, they're all still yet in basketball, maybe. And I'm just like, Joe, you gotta lighten up, yo. You know, Barack, sit down, sit down.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But it was a parent coach league and the two parents of the Vipers weren't professional coaches and they really didn't know basketball. And it was very evident by game number two as Barack would just start sliding down to the coach's bench and just say, you know, have her block that one and get them to tie their shoes. So he was sort of side coaching. And at the time, his aide was Reggie Love.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Reggie Love was a division one guy. That was his body guy. So it's he and Reggie. And they come out of the games really critiquing what wasn't going right. They weren't running plays. There were no practices. So they started making these side giving side advice to these two parent coaches. Oh, my gosh. So how do you, you know, well, what do you do with that?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You know, he starts offering to run practice for the Vipers. So they come to like one of the downtown gyms in the Department of Agriculture or the interior or whatever. So they take over a gym. Every week, they're coaching the Vipers. They teach them two plays. One was box and one was something else. Not the triangle offense. Not the triangle offense.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
These little girls weren't even tying their shoes.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So eventually, Barack's on the bench with Reggie, with the parents, and they're running plays. That's incredible. Long and short of it is the Vipers won the championships.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Let's go. That's cool. The Vipers won the championship. Well, we have, me and your daughter have something in common. We both played on a team called the Vipers. My arena football team was called the Vipers. So we have something in common there. That's amazing.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So you imagine what, how, you know, what that does to, you know, just to alleviate stress that once a week you're just a parent and eventually no matter who they were playing, he was just the Vipers coach. Yeah. It was good for him. It was good for his relationship with our daughters. It was it was it made us focus on something other than the world crises that he was facing.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So the girls brought us down, you know, and he went to every parent teacher conference ever. Really? Every single one, motorcade and all, which embarrassed the hell out of the girls. It's like, dad, the SWAT guys are on the roof. They've got the machine guns out. And we were just like, just ignore it. This isn't about you. Just trying to make them focus on their lives.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's like this president stuff. This is one thing. Your life is your life. And we are entering into it just like every parent. We're going to go. I'm going to the potluck. I'm going to stand on the soccer field. I'm going to, you know, watch your tennis game. Tennis was a hard sport to watch.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So I would stay in the car in the motorcade and kind of look because it's hard to watch high school tennis, which Malia played without showing up with all the.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
With all the agents and stuff. So that I wouldn't do. But soccer, you could do.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah. You can stand back far enough.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Stand back far enough. And interact with the parents in a normal way so that people would understand I'm a mom, you know, and these are my daughters. And you want the best for them. I want the best for them. And we'll have sleepovers at the White House and the girls will come over. So that helped. You know, that's a long way of saying that.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
having young kids helped us stay normalized and it helped us with our mental health as a family.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's interesting.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Now, how did you, I mean, you guys grew up with parents that weren't famous, that didn't have a lot of money, that weren't in the public eye, that weren't in, you know, universities or in politics and the world was paying attention to. But that wasn't the case for both of you. You were both public people in your own way and had a lot of fans and critics. Mm-hmm.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And you had more money than your parents, more success, more opportunities, all these different things. How do you raise, both of you, how do you raise healthy, conscious kids to be good, loving, generous when they are given more financially, success opportunities, networking, when they're given more opportunities than what you were given?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
If I talk to Kelly now, she'd say you're doing it.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I think you've got to know who your kids are, right? And that starts really early. I think all of that work starts way earlier than a lot of parents think because it's about boundaries. It's about respect. It's about learning, teaching your kids how to hear no.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Not giving them everything.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Not giving them everything and being okay with their disappointment. And that starts at three and five. It started way before we entered the White House, even though they were really young. It starts with discipline and not being afraid to discipline your kids, doing it with love, but still doing it and being consistent. Yeah.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
No, this is really good.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So our kids even coming to the White House were already at seven and 10, those kids, right? So then the worry became like, I don't want, and for all of our kids, I don't want you to think that you have to be this, right? Because the pressure can go the other way. And our kids are Obamas, right? They entered the room with a name and a face, right? that makes them have to prove something.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So for my kids, because of who they are, they're already hard workers. They're already good people. I hear this everywhere they go. They know how to enter a room and treat people kindly. They're gracious. They've learned how to be diplomats in this process because this whole experience that I was worried about also taught them how to maneuver in the world.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So now I worry about them feeling like success has to look like what we did.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Getting to the White House or getting to the top. Come on, like this is unusual, right? This is not the norm. And did your parenting style shift or evolve pre-White House, during the White House, and post-White House?
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It evolved not because of where we were, but because of their ages, right? You know, my kids lived in the White House longer than they lived in any house. So they came in at seven and 10 and they came out the year that Malia graduated. She graduated from high school and took a gap year in our last year because she didn't want to go to college.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
As the president's daughter, she didn't want to have a detail, right? So she took a gap year for that reason. Sasha graduated from high school when we were, you know, post-White House. So they were different people. So now you move from creating boundaries to being an advisor, right? And slowly letting, giving. For me, I felt like my job is to every year give you more rope.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Every year give you more control of your life. Every year step back even more to get out of the way. And I wanted to do that before they left my house because I wanted to see what do you do when you have all the rope? And some mistakes were made.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Wow.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Let me tell you. and mistakes for me yeah um but it was better for me to see those mistakes so we could come home and talk about it we could you know we could institute punishments we could you know i i didn't want to know that when they were out of the house um and so i gave my kids a lot of their rope each with each phase
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But that had more to do with who they were and how I wanted them to develop because we also they weren't going to have secret service their whole lives. So it's like you got to learn how to drive.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And you got to learn how to drive with your agent. So we had to switch that around. It's like you're driving in the car by yourself and your agents are following. So now you have to learn how to manage and communicate with a group of grown men on how you're moving in the world because you have to do this.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And how has the relationship grown or thrived from that?
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yes.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You know, you have to learn how to get gas. You have to learn how to get on a bus. You have to learn how to get on a plane by yourself. And I can't be there to do that with you because I still have all that, right? Yes, right. So the changes were really based on the kid, what they needed, and the age. And my motto was, your life is soon going to be yours, so let's start now.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I've got about... five minutes with you guys left, they're telling me. So I've got to call. I know. We'll have to do another one in the future. So many more basketball chat I want to have and everything else, you know. But I've got a couple final questions. So hopefully they'll let me finish these few ones up.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But before we ask them, I won't be able to download you guys' new podcast, IMO. I listened to the first episode where there was just of you two. Uh-huh. I thought it was fascinating hearing these stories you guys share about early childhood, growing up, the lessons you learned, how you were able to instill confidence in each other, support one another and overcome challenges in the world.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I just think it was really cool. And all the other conversations you're having with people I think is really needed right now. So IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, I want people to go download that. They can go to imopod.com. I am a podcast everywhere on social media and all the good stuff. We'll have it linked up as well, but really inspiring. And I'm glad you guys are doing this.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So congrats on the show. It's really cool. This is one more question I have for you. Then I have a couple for both of you to wrap it up. Yeah. I'm curious about your confidence pre White House, during White House, and then in the last decade since you've been in the White House. And I love your reflection on this as a brother and what you've witnessed. Mm-hmm.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Do you feel like you're more confident now in the last 10 years, the eight years in office or the kind of four to eight years before leading into the office?
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Easy answer. Now.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Really?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I think I'm my most confident now, I think. And by confidence, I mean, I feel I feel confident. I feel like I can claim my wisdom. And I've said this before. I think maybe it's a little bit different for women. Maybe I can only speak as a woman because I'm a woman. But I feel like throughout my life, you know, like a lot of women, I was reticent to claim what I knew.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And I was always sort of, well, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe I won't speak up or whatever. Yeah, maybe maybe this idea seems that way. Maybe, you know, what I'm saying to these guys in the West Wing doesn't make any sense. I was, you know, while I was doing my thing and and having my own proofs, it still took until now for me to kind of go.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
look over all this life and say, I kind of got, I kind of know a few things. I think, I think I can now sit in my wisdom at 61. And I think a lot of that has to do is with the fact that I am I'm, of course, still a wife, but I'm not the first lady of the nation. I'm not the primary parent of Malia and Sasha. They are adults out there on their own.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
This is the first time in my life when every decision, good or bad, is mine to own. Interesting. Yeah. And I feel good about owning it. I'm still working on it, though, because there's still guilt. There's still a sense of obligation. There's still a sense. There is still always the sense of, am I good enough? Really? Because while the confidence, I think it's there in so many of us.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's a beautiful lesson. Yeah, it's a good lesson. And so, Michelle, what's the biggest lesson your brothers taught you about life or anything that you didn't learn in school?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Like, that's what I've come to...
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Well, you think, am I good enough? You've created and accomplished so much, not only professionally, but personally. So at 61, you're still feeling that?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But is it enough? And that's the work that I'm doing. Like if it's not enough now, I'm telling myself and my therapist. then it won't be enough. So now I have to determine for myself, because this is all an internal conversation, that I'm good, right? I'm just now really, I just really now have the time to do that work Interesting. Right.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Because when you're climbing, slaying the dragons, you're just feeling the feelings. You don't have time to assess it. Right. Raising kids, getting through hard times, writing books, doing book tours, you know, working on the library with my husband, blah, blah, blah. The decade that I was talking about that just went by just like a flash. When was their time to reflect? Right.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And work on that stuff.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Do the healing work.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
To do the healing work. Because after all that work, there still is healing from it. That was, you know, that was a mighty experience that we had.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah. It's a lot to unpack.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Craig... there is such a youthful, joyful innocence in him that you never lost. And that creates a lightness, you know, that, I think other people feel. I mean, I joke that everyone loves Craig, you know, and I'm among them, right? And if he were a different kind of brother, I'd probably hate him because everybody loved him so much. I'd tease that my mother loved him more than she loved me.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And so... In these last years, I've been unpacking it and I'm becoming better with my choices, feeling the most confident in myself and the most settled in that question of am I good enough? And I'm finally starting to answer it. Yeah, I think I'm there. I think I'm there.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's beautiful. I feel like this is, we're just getting started, but unfortunately I'm going to have to wrap this up. So I want to ask you guys both a final question. And that is, what is your definition of greatness? And I'll start with you, Craig, your definition of greatness.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I love that.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I think mine is similar because we were raised in similar.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Greatness is giving more than you get.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
You know, because what what's it all for? You know, greatness. I think greatness, greater good. And we should be all we all should be working for our greatness to affect the greater good. And then we all experience that greatness because greatness as an individual feat. I mean, yeah, I guess, right? I mean, you can sit in your own greatness and have all the stuff and be really alone.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But the bigger greatness is putting that energy out. Yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Amen. Thank you both for being here. Thanks for having us, man. Appreciate it, Michelle. Thank you so much.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
12 years, we can see the experience.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Let's go, you know? Let's go. Let's go. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you wanna make it easier, you wanna make it flow, you wanna feel abundant, then make sure to go to MakeMoneyEasyBook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is gonna help you transform your relationship with money
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's like... You know, I'm in the White House. She's living in the White House. You know, when's Craig coming? He's here. He showed up. You know, we're at his house in Milwaukee, in Mequon, Milwaukee. Mequon. Mequon, somewhere in New York, outside of Milwaukee.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's cold there. It's hard to speak the words, you know. Exactly.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's freezing.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I know you know. Yeah, yeah.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And she's raving about the wine he has in Wisconsin. I was like, Mom, you live in the White House. What more do I have to do? I'm first lady of the United States, right? But any little sister could be resentful. But retaining that joy, retaining that kindness. And he's different as a coach on the bench. Sometimes he scares me and I'm like, who is this dude yelling at these little boys?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
But I'm trying to hold on and embrace more of that because in my line of work, there's a lot of cynicism. There are a lot of problems. There's a lot of in-your-face reasons to be less than optimistic. And when I'm around you, Craig, Everything is just like wonderful and new.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Also, Michelle's reflection on finding her deepest confidence at 61 is especially inspiring from my experience in this interview, proving that self-discovery is a lifelong journey. And throughout the conversation, we have a ton of fun, some really interesting conversation about Craig sharing how he played basketball with Barack Obama.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
No matter how many times he's seen it, he enters a space with this level of joy and awestruckness that, you know, it's important to keep.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Did you ever lose that when you were in the White House? Like being in awe of how far you had come and how far you and Barack had, you know, created your lives together? Or did you ever just be like, oh, this is the norm now and...
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I think we practice just staying level. not getting too high, not getting too low. I mean, and I think that became a habit. My husband's nature is that. He is very cool, calm, collected. He's an athlete, but he's the slowest walking person I've ever met. No urgency. Do you walk that slow?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And he's like, why are you walking so fast? It's like, if I walked any slower, I'd be walking backwards. I don't even know how you do it. So he has a natural calm. My temperament, I'm a little more fiery. And if I were to let my emotions guide me, if I got too pumped about the good times and too down about the bad times, I'd be a mess. Um, so I think there has been a little of, yeah, that's fine.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah. We just did that. Okay. Great wall of China. All right. What's next? Meeting with the Pope. So good to see you. Let's move on. Um, a private meeting with Nelson Mandela. That was really cool, but okay. Now we have to do, you know, it's just because the lows were like, we're, we're mourning kids that were shot. You know, we're, we're at a site where people have lost their homes in a,
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
horrible tornado. We are grieving with military families. I'm visiting Walter Reed and, you know, in the midst of the war and seeing rooms and rooms full of young men with their legs cut off and young wives with babies wondering, you know, how are they going to live going forward? I the peaks and the valleys.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And I think getting through that, you just, I've just learned to remain a little unplussed either way just to get through it. And then in comes Mr. Whoa, wow, look at this. And it's like, that's so sweet. You know, I'm here. Sometimes you need to just be like this is the coolest thing ever. So, yeah, I do think that I practiced a little more.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
That's so interesting.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Staying in the pocket.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Because you had to really, it sounds like you had to keep your nervous system steady at all times. Otherwise, the highs and the lows could have made you exhausted emotionally, it sounds like. And as a basketball coach... you have to motivate and keep people steady as well when there's momentum and it's going and when you're down by 20.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So did you now, but as siblings, this is actually the first brother sister combo that I've had on the show in 12 years. I've had siblings, but not brother sister. So this is interesting. Were you able to just be her big brother in the height of all this while she was in the white house or, Or were you trying to coach her like you would your athletes?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And he had to pass the basketball character test before Michelle would continue dating him. Also a story about how he played with Barack and Michael Jordan around the same time, which was kind of interesting.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It's not in tennis right now.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Bring the lightness, the familiarity.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Yeah, yeah. Try to make it familiar. Ignore all of this. Yeah, exactly.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I also heard that you asked your brother to play basketball with Barack. Is that right?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I played D3 basketball, but not D1.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
Michelle talking about the importance of emotional regulation and staying in the pocket during extreme highs and extreme lows and how she's been able to maintain this calm, cool, emotional state through all the ups and downs over the last 30 years. Why Michelle feels more confident now than ever before. And also finally answering the question, am I good enough?
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
It was the first year. It was the first year that we were dating because it was like, I like him. He's cute. He's funny. He's smart. We're starting to get close. But who is he? Hmm.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
And, you know, and when you're with the family, you know, everybody is going to perform, you know, at Thanksgiving dinner or if they were just to go out for drinks. I mean, Barack was smart enough to know how to, he presents well, right? But it wasn't just overhearing them talk about it. I mean, being the sister in a basketball culture, right? I was dragged along for all the sports.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I spent my life in gyms.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
I was absolutely salty about it. But, you know, but it was just the norm. We weren't going to cheer him on in a sport because at the time, Title IX hadn't kicked in. And even though I was kind of a tomboy, very athletic, there wasn't a place for me to put that energy, nor was it cool for girls to be athletes, especially if you were tall, because everybody assumed that.
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Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
So I was the sister on the sidelines, got to meet all the cute basketball guys. So I wasn't complaining or anything. But I know sports and I understood the game and I dated people that were on Craig's team and I'd hear about them. Like, how were they in practice? How were they coachable? So I believe that myself, that, you know, you learn a lot about a man in particular and how he engages people.
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
in the game right 100 so i was like take him out really so in the first year barack said he was a basketball player like oh let's see if he's a real player yeah and if you say you're a player and he didn't talk himself up but he is a basketball fanatic and i i kind of wanted to know was he an athlete you know yeah is he really an athlete i don't know if i'm gonna i wouldn't mind i wouldn't have minded if he wasn't but i would have been suspicious if he had said he was and then he couldn't even dribble the
The School of Greatness
Michelle Obama Opens Up: Her Struggle To Feel Like She's “Enough,” Mental Health in the White House & Lessons from Childhood w/ Craig Robinson
If he talked a big game and he couldn't back it up. Exactly. So wait, so can you walk through the scenario of how this, did you call him and say, hey, let's go hoop it up. Let's play a pickup game.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Because I'm also at a different time in life where my kids are adults. So I spent most of their lifetime making decisions for them, right? You know? Yeah, I do. Now I'm sort of free of that. You know, I'm no longer the first lady. I mean, there are a lot of big obligations, things that I did because, you know, it was an honor. It was my responsibility, all these things.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
But now in this back half, you know, in this back nine place, How am I thinking about who do I, Michelle Robinson Obama, want to be and what choices do I make for me? And I think this is really the first time in my life that I'm doing that. And I've made some decisions, as many people know, earlier in the year about where I was going to go, where I was going to be.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
what things I was going to attend. And there are repercussions to that. And as a woman, we always are worried about disappointing other people. And I've spent a lot of my life making sure that I was showing up As best as I could, because I didn't want to disappoint people. And a lot of times I made decisions that weren't in my own best interest.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I think after this year, you know, my mindset is, OK, I got to start being brave enough to make decisions for me. So I think that that's probably one of the. I guess, most recent examples of something that mom said to me. Of course, that wisdom, that last bit of snap out wisdom came from her.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
How appropriate it is that it came from her. But I think it's changed the way that I make decisions to this day. And I'm just trying to be more mindful.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Are you kidding me? Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
What about you guys?
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And the thing that keeps me going is that it was unique, but it exists all over the place. And I want your listeners and our listeners in times like this where we feel a little trapped and lost. is to remember that there are so many Marianne Robinsons out there of all races and backgrounds.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And there are times when we get confused and there are times when we go in the wrong direction, but at the core of who we are as humanity on this planet, There are more people like her than there are not.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Just any fool out there.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Just give us a name.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
who was smart and capable, but for a bad teacher or a parent that didn't pay attention, you know, she believed in our father too, in the goodness in people. And that led me to Barack, which led me to see the country and the world and to find that to be true, you know? And so,
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Even when things are bad, I try really hard to remember that we're not unique, you know, that the joy and the love and the devotion, you have it in your family. We feel it in you too. That's why people are drawn to you. The thing that we just have to remind people of is that this feeling is actually the better feeling. So gravitate to it.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I mean, it is easy to be mean and to not share and to be greedy and to cut people off and to say nasty things. I mean, that's part of our defense mechanism. But we need a reminder that that's not what brings us joy. That's not what, it's not the money. It's not the power. It's not the house. It's not the dollars in your bank account. It's like how you treat people in life.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Lately, the experiences that we've had in the loss of that core for us is it makes us want to fight for that truth even more, you know, to shine a big light that knocks out the darkness that feels like it's suffocating us, that it's causing us to wake up every day and go, where are we? Is this what we're supposed to be? Is this who we are? And the answer is no, no, no, we're better than this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We are so much better than this. And better doesn't come in the form of a race or religion or gender or sexuality. We all have it. You know, we just have to call upon it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
She's the opposite of you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I think that's beautiful and powerful on so many levels because we are out here trying to conform sometimes in ways that maybe that's not who we're supposed to be, you know? And instead of embracing all of ourselves, right? The good and the bad, the beautiful stuff and the gnarly stuff, right? We're taught that it all is supposed to be perfect all the time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
You know, you're not supposed to have problems or issues or distress. You know, and this was also something we talked about with Lori Santos, you know, Dr. Lori Santos, who teaches the happiness course at Yale. We had a great conversation with her and I've thought about a lot of what she's talked about. But our happiness bar to me is way off.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And our parents weren't like that. And our grandparents weren't like that because there wasn't room at that time in history when there was segregation and misogyny and women were still fighting for rights. I mean, when you think about where there was a Great Depression, there were wars all the time. No one was raised to think that you were supposed to be happy or perfect or not to have a problem.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And that that was going to be the standard of the way you live, like always getting what you want and never really having to work through really hard things. But that's life. That's like what we are meant to do as humans on this planet, as animals. That's all we have.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And I think kids today and so many of us are sad because when there's an imperfection or there's a block or there's a challenge, we feel completely and utterly broken and useless rather than feeling like, yeah, that's a thing that you're going to be working on forever. And you're teaching with it and you're growing from it and you're sharing from it. No, it's not perfect.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And it doesn't always make you happy, right? Because struggle doesn't make you happy, but it also makes you strong. It also makes you wise in a very unique way. And it's reorienting our thinking about what is human life supposed to be? And it's full of a lot of broken, messy stuff, right? And that's okay too.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Remember, he's the old dad.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That's right. Let me give you an assignment.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I like that.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yes. Awesome. Well, for me, it's probably retreating. I do get so much energy from people. I don't get tired of people generally. I am an extrovert and a people person.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Well, that's also because I don't, you know, I don't get tired. I don't get worn out. I don't get drained. Honestly, I don't. But sometimes all of that interaction keeps my mind full and I don't take the time to really sit quietly. So when I really need to kind of assess, I go quiet and I can spend a couple of days alone. No social media, not reading the news headlines, withdrawing from all of the
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Your podcast is crushing. We don't know. I never know what anything is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
inputs you know and especially when it comes to outside noise right no news no not even reading the clips not taking in any outside anything and sitting by myself, oftentimes in nature, somewhere where I can hear an ocean or see something green or take in fresh air.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
There are days, there's a spot in Hawaii in our house where if nobody is around, I will go to that one spot where I can see just everything and I can see nature happening and I can sit in that spot for an entire day. And I find that I just can get some clarity there. So to me, it's retreating. It's retreating into myself.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Oh, really? Oh, I do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We love you so much. And are just grateful, happy to have you in our lives. And I'm waiting for the letter. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. I'm going to get it to you. All right. You got to work up the nerve and just like, you know, just deliver it. Five more meetings. Now I really, really want to see it.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Oh, why? Anything in particular? What's going on? What's happening? Just life. It's just like opening your eyes in the morning and seeing the world. Typically for me, that's when it starts.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
It's just right here. It's just you and your thoughts in your brain. Yeah. All alone in your loop. In the loop.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
I.M.O. That would be what I would do. And I would say it over and over again.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
It's almost like, yeah, we're sitting around the table and he's visiting me now. The whole family's here. Malia's here. And we sit around and we talk about everything. And there's this range, age range, because his youngest is 13. His oldest is 30 and then everybody else is in the middle. But this is how we grew up around the kitchen table. We just didn't solve problems alone.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That was never like a thought that I would ever have an issue that I wouldn't be like, mom, Craig, everyone, everyone, all the kids. We're going to talk about this at dinner. You know, every embarrassing moment, every stumble. So we like let's try to do this with other folks who may not have that community, you know, who may not have a base of support.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
that they can go to on a regular basis, particularly in times when people feel so lonely?
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And we just had some amazing guests and experts. You guys, you know, we now are in love with you both. So, so in love. But, you know, we've learned a lot. I mean, over dinner last night, we've been having long conversations with the younger ones about social media because we had a great conversation with John Haidt, who wrote The Anxious Generation.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And I think you started implementing some of the stuff that John suggested in terms of, you know. getting kids offline and in real life and what that's doing to their brains. But we were talking to that with the kids last night at dinner.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
But I can't. There's teenagers. But why can't you? I mean, why? I know I am paying for it. Why can't we? Because now we're learning that it's not really good for them. You know, that they're reaching for that phone out of habit, that their minds have been captured. You know, so if they were sitting there smoking a cigarette next to you, same thing, you would snatch it.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
You'd be like, not lighting up on my sofa, not in the middle of this movie. But I think that that's something that we have to talk about because kids have gotten accustomed to this thing. So have we as adults. And what we're learning is that this stuff is frying their brains and it's not preparing them for real life. and it's taking away their attention span. It is messing with all of us.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We didn't know this five years ago. We didn't have the information, but now that we do, it's like seat belts, you know? It's like all the things that we didn't grow up doing or knowing that it was a problem, And now we have to kind of go, this is for you. Put the phone down. Learn how to pay attention to something for 90 minutes, because that's what life is going to be.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
That's what a job is going to require you to do. And if you can't practice that like a coach, you're not forcing your kids to practice attention span. Then they're they're not ready for the game of life. coaches, you players, you sports people. Well said. Well said. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Our mom smoked when she was pregnant. And we always tell her we could have been somebody. You know, if you had not smoked while we smoke and highballs, you know, they they drank. Everybody had a drink.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And now we've made it clear. It's like you you really didn't maximize our development. But we're OK. And that's what you say. You're fine. Yes.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
There's a bit of an understatement. But yeah, we're having a ton of fun with the show and with IMO. And we are learning some stuff.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We're just so grateful to you guys for supporting it, for being a part of it. It's been just great getting to know you two. Thank you for being a part of our community. It's been terrific.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
For me, since we talked about losing our mom, the months before our mom died, she was with me. And it was a real special treat because we were all in Hawaii. She would usually come in December for Christmas and then go back sometime in January, but she got sick then. And so she wound up staying until March. So we had all this amazing time with me being able to really just care for her
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
Because, you know, when she's not in D.C., she's in Chicago. I live in D.C. with our folks. Mom's in Chicago. Craig's in Milwaukee. So we were doing a lot of caregiving from a distance, you know, which was a little stressful. But our mom liked her independence and didn't want to be a burden. So having that time with her and not knowing that our time was limited, it was special. But
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
We were back and forth to the hospital, and we had just come back from a hospital visit, and we were sitting on the sofa together watching a court show. And I reached over, grabbed mom's hand, and she looked at me and she said, wow, this was short. And I said, what are you talking about? And she said, life.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And, you know, that really hit me because our mom, first of all, was always preparing us for her death since the time we were little. You know, it's one of these things. It's like you guys got this because I think as a parent, that's one of your biggest worries is that you leave before your kids are ready for you to leave. So she kind of overly prepared us.
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Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
But at that point in time to see in my mother the shock of how short life was, you know, that kind of snapped me into, I would say, a different kind of mindfulness experience. about my life because I started to think, wow, yeah, life is long, but then it gets really short.
We Can Do Hard Things
Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson: Their Mother’s Last (Life-Changing) Advice
And if we're lucky at 61, maybe we get 20 more summers, you know, and not in a morbid way, but it's like, you know, this stuff gets finite and we're blessed because we're Time is limited. And so it kind of made me think in this year, how am I being mindful now in the choices that I make about how I spend my time, where I go, what I do, who do I do it for?