Kara Swisher
Appearances
Pivot
Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
I don't know what you thought about that one to me was the most seriously disturbing of all the many executive orders.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
What do you think of this strategy of flooding the zone with shit? Now, I know all presidents do this. They put out executive orders. These are just one outlandish idea after the next. Most of them have no force of law. Most of them are just press releases, as they said, on better letterhead. But it is this flooding the zone with shit to get Democrats, you know, completely flummoxed. How dare he?
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How dare he? How dare he? How dare he do that?
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Dark greetings from the USA and hail Satan, Scott. The second reign of Trump has begun with a plethora of things. We'll talk about some of these ridiculous executive orders that which have no meat to the bone, as they say. But let's get right to the inauguration. I know you were drowning your sorrows in 80s music and firefighter videos. Did you watch the inauguration?
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I get the move along idea. I get it. It's just some of these people are dangerous criminals. That's the, you know, he talks about-
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He talks about dangerous criminals on the street. He just let out some. There is a point to moving along. Washington let off the people who did the Whiskey Rebellion. He did it. Right. People who would. That happens over and over again. You just say that was wrong. Let's move on. In the case of us, he could have picked out a few. And even J.D. Vance said so, that were dangerous and beat up cops.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
Right. The ones that beat up cops.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
I thought it showed weakness, actually. I was like, there's too many of them. There's too many ones and all of them are kind of empty. It was sort of performative. I thought he should have been much more strategic and stronger. I thought they were all, I think they all showed. You know how Mark is like, Mark Zuckerberg is like, I'm grilling meat. I'm shooting buffaloes. That's what it was like.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
I was like, you're not a man because you have to performatively man at us.
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Okay, but he's using it to put loyalties in. But yes, yes, I see your point.
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Yeah, I know. It's just their way to attack people and try to scare them. That's why I don't like it. It's not done to make things better. It's done to terrify, which is stupid. Yeah. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we discuss what is exactly going on with TikTok after Trump's late move and talk about the meme coin and other things. Scott, we're back.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
President Donald Trump signed an executive order on Monday to delay enforcing the TikTok ban for 75 days, though it's unclear if that order will hold water legally. Most people think not. This follows TikTok briefly shutting itself down in the U.S.
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for about 14 hours over the weekend ahead of the ban going into effect, which was just a performative piece of bullshit on behalf of the TikTok executives. As he signed the order, Trump attempted to explain the new plan where the U.S. would run TikTok as a 50-50 joint venture with its current owners. It's inexplicable, but let's listen.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
You know, I don't mind ideas here, but EO is just pointless. It just is. He doesn't have very many options because there's a lot. And by the way, people like Tom Cotton and others are like, you're not going around this law, Apple. And guess what? Right now, you cannot download TikTok and other ByteDance apps on the Apple Store or the Google Store. These people have good lawyers.
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They understand that Trump is all lather. He can't do that. Now, he gave some assurance to, I guess, Akamai and Amazon and Oracle, but they are liable, very liable right now for billions and billions of dollars if they don't comply with the law. So the only thing Trump can really do is pass a new law. That could happen, which is not going to happen.
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He could try to get some deal done with the Chinese. There's no reason the Chinese need to do this. I don't care what he threatens them with. And he doesn't have many options. He just doesn't. As a president, he doesn't have a lot of options except for following the law. He doesn't have to follow the law. You can order the Justice Department not to follow the law.
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But as you can see, as I said, Scott, they'll pick the Supreme Court and the Congress over Donald Trump in this situation. And so you can't download TikTok right now. But talk about this 50-50 joint venture. I don't even understand. The American public owns it? I don't know. Maybe give every American a share in TikTok. That would be great. Whatever.
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They can't agree on lunch, and they agreed on this, but go ahead.
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They're expressing interest in working with Trump. This is going to be done by what they're going to do is the I call it the Elon faint. They're going to get it into the hands of someone they like who can they can manipulate or or that there's it's going to be fake. They're still going to be there. And it's still going to be if you know, the two people I trust on this whole thing.
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One is Tom fucking Cotton. I think he's speaking some truth about the dangers of China and manipulation of the United States. And AOC, which who did a fantastic thing on, I think it was Blue Sky, where she's like, look, I didn't see any substantive, any kind of substantive manipulation here. I'd happy to do this if they would show it to us. Right.
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Both of them are like, this is all we look like fucking idiots. Both of them said the same thing. Like you either put up or shut up. You either follow the law. If you're going to pass this law. pass another one. Like, that's what they can do.
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And Trump, they'll do something behind the scenes, but it will result in much less security, much less privacy, when they should have gone back and done a broader law about all these companies. Follow them. All of them and have a thing in there saying foreign adversaries can't own this much of a big media property. That's all they had to do.
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And they wouldn't do that because they get all their bank from those switch to photo of all those rich people, tech people on the dais. This is this is all fixed. Now, let me just say one person wrote a piece. Kevin Roos wrote a piece. What if no one misses TikTok? So he was like, there isn't that much anger as you think.
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The only people I feel for is the creators who are making money on this platform. And I do love entrepreneurs doing that. They can go somewhere else. They'll go to YouTube or wherever they can go to do things. And I'm sorry about that.
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I agree. That's where I part with.
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I think she's making a good point is that they voted too quickly and didn't do a broader one. That's what was really that was her biggest beef is that it just was a jam through. Nobody got to really think about it and nobody did a broader one. And I agree with her on that.
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Well, they do mean it because Apple and Google are not following this thing. That's where I look at. These lawyers are like, no fucking way we're going to expose ourselves to this. To me, the fact that you can't download it says everything to me. Trump has no power here in this thing. And he will do some jazz hands deal. But they've got to get Congress to and the Supreme Court to approve it.
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And I think in this case, the two other branches of government are prevailing in this case. Let's get to some very, very quick headlines. I do want to talk about that meme point. But first, President Biden's last hours. Yeah. He pardoned his family members, Dr. Fauci, members of Congress who served on the January 6th committee, General Mark Milley. I didn't mind the last parts of those.
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Yeah, I went back and looked at that video because I thought it might have been unfair. It was not unfair. He was. Catching a look.
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The family members kind of really wasn't a great thing. I thought it set a terrible precedent. In a statement, Biden did say the pardon should not be mistaken as an admission of guilt, but that's exactly what it'll be mistaken as. I mean, any quick thoughts on that?
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That's exactly how I feel. I was like, oh, God, did he really have to do this? This is bad. You know, being the stand-up guy hasn't worked for him. So I guess he thought, well, fuck it. And he did it right before... Right? John Stewart was so joking about it. Did he auto-pardon? Because he was sitting in the room when it was announced, when it was done.
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Well, speaking of disarming, the Department of Government Efficiencies' first cut ended up being Vivek Ramaswamy.
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Ramaswamy was reportedly parting ways with Doge to launch a campaign for governor of Ohio, which he's not going to win.
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Yeah, exactly. No, totally. The news came just hours after Ramaswamy posted a photo with Elon on it with the caption, a new dawn. There's tons of reporting that they didn't like this guy, essentially, and Elon didn't like him. And actually, a lot of people didn't.
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In the meantime, moments after the swearing in district court filings, alleging Doge doesn't comply with Federal Advisory Committee Act, I would agree with it. They're using Signal. They're using Signal. They should do that. If it's so transparent and such a good thing, why don't they do it in the full light of day? What do you think of Doge now, Scott?
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I know you want to cut government waste, and there's been a lot of these commissions over the years, but this seems like a ridiculous circus at this point. I mean, I don't know.
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Oh, wow. I didn't think you'd go there, but go ahead.
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And then the governor of Ohio gave it to another guy. He wanted to be appointed for the van seat.
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I know, but he wanted that seat, apparently.
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Yes, all hat and no cattle, yeah.
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Man down. First man down. First irritating man down.
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He's so irritating. I couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Anyway, it's sort of like, as you were saying, when Bannon and Musk were fighting, I'm like, I'm rooting for the bullets. Anyway, this is the most important story. I think Scott and I were both totally offended by this. And I think it is actually a serious problem of corruption.
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Trump and Melania have released their own individual crypto meme coins. They're called, just so you know, meme coins, these kind of coins are called shit coins. There's a fart coin in case you're interested and many others like it. As of Tuesday morning, the two coins were worth $8.4 billion combined.
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I don't know. She was right there with him. She was right there with Mark at every event.
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President Trump's reported planning an executive order to make digital assets a national priority while he promises to release $1 billion of his own coin in the next three years. This is just—they don't have to stay at the Trump Hotel anymore. They can just bring the receipts for buying his shit coin, essentially. This is really bad.
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No, no. She was there. She was there. She was standing next to him. She's in the rotunda? She was in the rotunda. She was next to him. You didn't notice her because she's wearing pearls and a very conservative outfit. But she was right next to him.
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This is what they thought Bitcoin would be used for, bribery, corruption, pornography.
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I'll tell you, a lot of crypto people are like horrified because they kind of they were like, great, we're finally getting our legs under us around some really important, you know, legislation and regulation.
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Trump Takes Office, TikTok’s Brief Shutdown, and Crypto Cronyism
Or Smelania. It's called Smelania just in
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We didn't, because Lauren was like, yeah, bustier.
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And they run media. They run everything. They have a lock.
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This is the thing people must pay attention to and do as much reporting on as possible, is this bribery system that they've put into place. And it may have already happened. We don't even know. We don't even know. We don't even know. We don't even know. And of course, they've now captured the IRS, so there's not going to be any investigation by the SEC. They've captured the SEC.
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There's no way to... It's up to reporters who they're putting the pressure on to be silenced, right? A lot of people are definitely pulling back. I mean, a lot of the coverage was like, look at the pageantry of normalcy of power. Like, they didn't mention felon ones. They didn't mention the insurrection. They did mention the insurrection several times. Isn't it ironic?
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This is where the insurrection happened and they're sitting there, right? They're all sitting there as if nothing happened. They did mention that, but... For the most part, everyone's going to be pulling back. They are. They're absolutely going to be pulling back, and you're not going to see it. And that is what Russia is.
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Russia is a broken, hollowed-out state full of people, haves and have-nots, of really making nothing, no innovation. And instead, just that tableau of the tech people
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We hate to talk about clothes, but, oh, my God, Melania Trump looked like a nun next to Lauren.
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up there should tell you every single thing you need to know about this particular what's about to happen uh hopefully they'll be pushed back i don't we'll talk about that in another in the next episode like what is the actual pushback what is the way to control it because they do have their hands on the ai they have their hands on crypto they've got their hands on which by the way they revoked that executive order that was one of the executive orders they they undid
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Biden's AI, which was quite a good, fair one, I thought. They just don't want any business. I would. This crypto thing is really bad. It's like just it's just, as you said, Scott, democratized corruption. All right. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. All right. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I think I'll go first. Sure.
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Yesterday, someone who I really had a high regard for, Cecile Richards, who I recently interviewed in June, died of brain cancer. She had suffered from it. She used to run Planned Parenthood. She did an amazing job. She's the daughter of Ann Richards, who was the legendary Texas governor.
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Just an amazing woman, just devoted to public service, devoted to helping women, very articulate, moved Planned Parenthood. You know, in terms of health care, everyone always focuses on the abortion part of it, but it's a very important health care system for a lot of people. Just a tireless fighter and a decent person.
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Never was, I know the left has a reputation of being scoldy or anything like that. She just was dignified. She fought. She was strong. The fact that she died on this day, let's remind you, it's MLK's day, too. and it is his day period, not just two, was really sad. And she was an inspiring figure to me and many other people. And so her life was a win.
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I would contrast that to the demented interview that Andreessen did with the New York Times. where all manner of inaccuracies, but mostly a poor, broken man who had something happen to him in his childhood, which is unclear, just is taking it out on the rest of us. What a ridiculous victim mentality he has. It's so sad.
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And please read it because you can see the problems I've had with him over the many years. It's never his fault. It's always someone else's fault. Someone's getting in his way. And he has to use inaccurate historical and other references to make his points. And Just comparing the two of them, I just couldn't think of a bigger contrast.
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Oh, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hat. That was a strategic.
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Someone who is dignified and a real contributor to society and this guy who certainly has contributed but just can't bring everybody else with him in the journey of his life.
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That was a strategic hat. All I looked at were ladies. I spent the whole time looking at the ladies there, all the different ladies.
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Well, some of it. Yeah, they definitely dress, many of them.
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Yeah, well, some of them do. I don't like that look. It's very shiny.
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Yeah, I think there has to be a different kind of political leader among the Democrats that is really either just... I don't know, because then you do the tit-for-tat thing. You do what Biden did with the pardons. You lower yourself. That's right.
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You have to kind of lower yourself. You have to... It does have like... Speaking of Roman salutes, it has an end of Roman Empire vibe to it. It definitely does. Never been more powerful. Never been more... prosperous overall, not for everybody.
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Yeah, it's really, it's a disappointment because we have so much, but the panoply of those tech people, I cannot believe, that's what I can't believe having covered these people, you know, and I wrote in 2016 that they were sheeple. Boy, are they sheeple. Boy, was that a good call.
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I know why he did it. I get it. I get it. But, you know, he didn't, Satya Nadella wasn't there. He didn't have to be there. Maybe he did. Maybe he did. Maybe I, there's all kinds of behind the scenes things happening that I don't know, that we're not privy to. I'd like it to be in front of the scenes. I'd like an explanation. I think it's probably just shareholder issues. thing.
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I know. I'm surprised they weren't exhausted by the weekends. And some of them really were trying not to smile. Like Tim Cook smiled occasionally, but was trying to have a stern look. Sundar Pichai didn't know what he was doing there. He's like, oh, Jesus. He was next to Elon. It was the whole thing. The whole panoply was... So ridiculous.
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Sam Altman was there. There were lots of people there that didn't want to be there. That's for sure. And I told you, I got a text from someone saying, I hate myself more than I think you hate me right now for being here. And I was like, I doubt it. I doubt it. I see why you are, but doesn't mean I hate you less than you hate yourself.
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But I mean, there is a point where you have to say and not be the thing that Democrats do is they do this sort of huffy indignance about it. How dare they? You know, this kind of stuff. Just like don't show up like Michelle Obama. That's what you do. Like like Mother Pence didn't show up, too, by the way. I bet they were like throwing back shots like at a bar together, like fuck that guy.
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You have to create a whole new narrative and story about America for people that gives them hope and makes them feel like it's fair and not that panoply of...
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bullshit with those people like and they you know they looked good but it did look like the hunger game scott i think you're right a hundred percent um anyway uh lauren sanchez we need you we need you i would rather her be president like i don't know she's very smart she's smart i've met her she's smart uh i think she could do a lot more with her intelligence but uh i don't know i think she's doing pretty well all right whatever
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She's an adjacent brilliant person, but she should be in the center of things like more Mackenzie Bezos. I'm sorry. Sorry, Lauren. But I think she's running circles around you in the end. Historically, she's going to run circles around you. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.
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Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. By the way, if you want to see more Lauren Sanchez, go check out her thread, Scott. She really put them up. She put up a lot of photos you might like of herself. Oh, yeah. I'll send them to you.
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Well, it's almost nude, but just go watch it. It's very performative. I'm going to keep my words to myself. It's unusual to look at. But she does it all the time. Anyway, good for you. Good for you, Lauren, if you want to do that.
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Okay. All right. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, I recently spoke with Yonder CEO Graham Dugoni for On with Kara Swisher. You'll like this, Scott. Yonder is the company behind those patches getting... used at concerts and in schools to lock away phones. It's a physical manifestation of the problem we have with these things. I really like this product. And this guy was fantastic.
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Graham explained to me why it's so important for kids to be separated from their phones in schools.
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I love that idea, information retrieval systems.
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And then Trump, my favorite part was Trump putting them up there right in the front. Now I know I wanted it inside because it looked better. It looked better inside. It was like actually a beautiful tableau kind of thing in a repulsive way, but it was beautiful. So if he was on the dais outside, you wouldn't have seen them all like that and they would have been all bundled up.
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Anyway, it's a great, he's so interesting. I really, I thought you would like him a lot, Scott. I kept thinking of you throughout the show. In any case, Yonder, Jonathan Haidt loves Yonder, for example. You have to really just get these things out of your hands because they're so addictive. They're addiction machines. And so I kind of love this business. It's pretty simple.
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And he's doing a bunch of other things around getting your phones out of your hands for just a short time of the day, at least. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Would you please read us out?
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But instead, it's like, look at the rich people I collected one after the next. Like, and the lady and the lady and stuff. So it was really he and he put them right there, right in the in the right next to him, right over his shoulder. So you couldn't avoid them and moved out. Governors moved out.
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Yes. No people that were at his rallies, no people that he cared. It was all rich people. And then he even stuck Miriam Adelson in the back, like, which was kind of interesting and Dana White. But he wanted to show I have a trillion dollars of people right here and they're at my behest.
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And it was such a—they were so played by this guy. It was—it kind of was like, kudos, Trump. I've never been able to neg them like that. I've never been able. But he did. He, like, had them in their spot, I thought was interesting.
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They were bluey Band-Aids, actually. I clocked that. That's a flex.
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I mean, they ignored him completely. And interestingly, we'll get to the people getting out of jail, but Vance said they wouldn't let out violent criminals, and they have. Well, he doesn't know what's going on. I mean, Musk is the one, and We'll get to Musk in a second.
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But President Trump declared the beginning of a, quote, golden age of America, even though we're kind of in the golden age of America after taking the oath of office on money, calling his inauguration Liberation Day.
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Okay, all right. He said he was saved by God to make America great again, referencing last summer's assassination attempt.
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You're right. It's all such bullshit. He made a series of announcements about his inaugural address, including one that made Hillary Clinton visibly laugh. She was there. I love that Hillary just said, you know, she's like... I know a lot of people are like they shouldn't have gone. But I'm like, I'm down with her being right there. I'm down with Mike Pence being there. Like you tried.
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You tried, dude, and you didn't succeed. So let's listen to Trump.
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It's so ridiculous. It's so fucking ridiculous. So laughable and stupid. And I ran into, of all people in the CNN green room, Elizabeth Warren, and I thought she'd be all, you know, have her dander up. And she's like, that was so frigging laughable. Like, what in the world? Like, so dumb. He also said that we're going to expand.
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He says this manifest destiny thing, but not just on this planet, but let's listen to that.
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Okay, not exactly JFK, but this is what Musk has been after the whole time. The penny kind of dropped, and I went back and listened to a couple interviews I had done with him many years ago, 2016, 18. His need to get to Mars seems to have been his goal here in a lot of ways. It's not money necessarily with this guy, but it is this whole Mars thing.
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What did you think of these Gulf of America and Mars situation?
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Mr. Anti-war. Mr. Anti-war wants to take on other countries.
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So I have to say, a lot of people who are at the parties felt it was a lot of like cheap tricks. There was a lot of people had to go. You know, they just had to go a lot.
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Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. People who were there were like, it was joyless and cheap tricks. And these were Republicans. They were like, this is gross and not cool. It wasn't cool, someone said to a friend of mine. What was interesting was the visuals. It was all for visuals. I did find his speech petty and small-minded as he is. He's in a perpetual campaign.
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This guy who's never running for anything again, he just can't get out of the campaign mode and get into the governing mode ever. And now Elon Musk, of course, is getting to go to Mars, and we hope he goes first. We're very excited for his travels there, never to come back, because you can't come back, by the way, just so you know. He told me that.
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But he gave a speech at the Capital One Arena where they usually have this inaugural parade that goes by the White House. They canceled that. And again, for spectacle's sake, leaving aside Billy Ray Cyrus at one of the things, it was quite a spectacle. So let's hear Elon's speech.
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You know, at the noise at the end there, that's Elon thumping his chest and doing what appeared to be a fascist Nazi-style salute. Some people are calling it a Roman salute, but a Roman salute was a Nazi salute. Some people saying he was doing his heart goes out to you. That's not how you do it. It was weird. Some people are blaming it on him having Asperger's. You know, I'm sure...
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You know, in The Sound of Music, Rolf was just showing his heart went out to the Bontrop family when he did that symbol, that signal. But it was stupid. I don't know what to say. It's like, oh, we're going to be on the incoming of a flood of this kind of bullshit. Given he's in the public eye so much, he should be very careful about his signals that he does.
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I think a lot of people are letting him off because of the flood of other things that happened. I don't know if you had any thoughts.
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Except the Nazis were getting let out of jail. That's the only, like, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt. Like, I assume you want to.
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I don't know what he's doing. I just think he had, if you're in a position of that much power and that much influence and you're in the public eye, you should try not to do things that could be construed that way. I just think that.
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Which is, I think, what he might have wanted to happen. Honestly, you know, he loves to troll people in some way to get people to see. He's expecting us all to go, oh, how dare he? I think, as usual, it was sloppy and obnoxious is what it was at the very least. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
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And to attribute it, you know, it's interesting when everyone's like he is, you know, autistic or on the spectrum. A lot of people on the spectrum are like, I've never done a Nazi type salute kind of things.
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I agree. I'm not going crazy over it. I'm just saying.
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He did it twice. Let's just be clear. He did it twice. And if you watch it, it's weird. It's as weird as can be. Look, there's nothing to be done with this guy. He's going to continue to try to troll us and try to do all kinds of things that sort of, like, tickle liberals' hearts. This is his thing. This is what he's going to do till the end of his life. And he likes to do it.
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He likes to make memes. I think he absolutely knew he was doing. I don't think he cares. I don't necessarily think he's, you know, I don't know what he is. I don't know why he did it. But I thought it was badly done at the moment. Definitely. I think you have to be careful about signals and things like that. But I agree. I'm not going to. I'm moving on. Like, whatever. Elon was weird. Weird.
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Trump declared the beginning of a, quote, golden age of America.
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In addition, as I said, they all had prime seats. Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Tim Cook, Sundar Pichai. Better seats than cabinet nominees who were behind them, I believe. What's incredible is the other notable attendees, too. Joe Rogan, Rupert Murdoch was there. I didn't see him there. I don't know where they put him. LVMH CEO Bernard Arnall, TikTok CEO Sho Chu.
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really full of business people more than anybody else. And even Miriam Adelson, a big donor of his, was shoved, even though a business person shoved in the back, which was interesting. I don't know. It was quite something, and it was definitely made for TV. Trump quickly got to work on Monday evening, issuing sweeping pardons to over 1,500 of the January 6th rioters.
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He was thought to have not—J.D. Vance said he wasn't going to let off people who had violent— But that's exactly what he did. He let out people who had beaten up cops very clearly, people who had gotten 20 years to life, people who were obviously there to cause mayhem. But he let them off, too. One woman who was just inside and was a nonviolent protester wouldn't take the thing.
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She said, I committed a crime. I thought that was pretty honorable of her. Yeah, that was weird. But he let off some very dangerous people. I know a lot of people that worked on those cases and they are terrified now that these people are out and emboldened. They essentially said Trump now has his own private militia at his behest. I think that was pretty upsetting.
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I will tell you, actually, you know, it was supposed to be like, oh, the Trump people weren't there, and oh, how terrible. Actually, it was much more enjoyable. It was like kind of when the tech bros left San Francisco and everything was better. Like, they sort of abandoned all the restaurants and everyone was like, oh, no. And it was much more pleasant, I have to say. It was nice.
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A lot of people are moving to France. It's interesting. A lot of tech people I'm talking about is putting their stuff elsewhere. I had a long discussion with someone this weekend about that, putting their stuff elsewhere. And it's not moving their bodies necessarily. It's moving their data. Interesting. Or their money. Yeah, money, data.
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He wouldn't even know what to do. Anyway, we have to move on. But those are all really good ones, Scott. Very nice. I like it. Well, we'll see what happens there. Very quickly, FBI agents arrested a Milwaukee judge accused of obstructing justice for directing an undocumented immigrant in her courtroom to exit through the side door to avoid immigration agents.
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FBI Director Kash Patel posted a photo of the judge, Hannah C. Dugan, in handcuffs, saying, Dugan has since been released from custody and is expected to be arraigned on May 15th, which is soon. Meanwhile, three U.S. citizen children under 10 have been deported with their mothers, including a four-year-old with stage four cancer.
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According to a recent Washington Post, ABC, Ipsos poll, 53% of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of immigration, where he was winning. That's up from 48% in February. This was his signature issue. We'll talk about the polls for Trump, which are terrible right now. But this was the one where he was ironclad. Very quick thoughts on this?
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Doing victory laps without a victory.
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I'll go through it. I went to a dinner for the Substack through with my agents, UTA. That was interesting.
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He has people who say yes, and to his bad base instincts. And so he's also older. I'm going to start to really stress that. I know all these books are coming about Biden, but he's older. And so he's unfettered. He's addled, and he does what he wants, and he has people around him who are incompetent. Or have a cruelty streak, like Kash Patel, Kristi Noem standing in front of those people.
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I think everybody was uncomfortable with that photo of her in front of those. I don't care what those guys did. That was gross. That was grotesque. Dressed like an ice Barbie. Kash Patel, the way he talks about things. Stephen Miller, forget it, screaming on every TV station.
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I think you don't win by yelling at people and telling them they're stupid for finding deportation of a four-year-old with stage four cancer. And that Tom Hellman, he seems like he's had a few all the time, and he says stupid things almost continually. I mean, the cruelty is really quite... diminishing of, you're right, popular programs.
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But this number of 48 to 53, he's underwater on his signature issue, which is really, I mean, that'll make other people act up against him. Anyway, we'll see what's going to happen. I think it's going to continue to rise because I think he can't help himself. We'll see. He needs to pull back. If he did, he'd probably be popular again.
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Yeah, we sat across.
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Nate Silver was there, Jim Acosta, Mehdi Hassan was there. It was nice.
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Well, he was an immigrant, you know. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, President Trump's switch up on Ukraine. This is sort of a shift. Support for Pivot comes from Upwork. Scaling your business requires the right expertise at the right time, and creating that perfect mix can help take your business to the next level.
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Oh, oh, oh, what's her name? She was great. Michelle, Michelle?
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Yeah, they didn't have one this year, supposedly. I wasn't there because they dumped me.
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Scott, we're back. President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky met on the sidelines of the Pope Francis' funeral this weekend to discuss the end of war. It was a very interesting visual. I thought it was a terrific visual, actually. And now President Trump appears to be on Ukraine's side. The U.S.
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president afterwards posted on Truth Social criticizing Russian President Vladimir Putin for recent missile attacks on Ukraine, saying, it makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war. Really? Really? He's just tapping me along. And this has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions, whatever that is.
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On Sunday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who really looks like he's blinking for us to come save him, said administration will decide this week whether to continue pursuing a negotiated settlement of the war. Who do you think got in his ear about Russia here? It's really, it was kind of a shift. I thought that picture was
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kind of weirdly beautiful of him in this incredibly ornate setting on these two simple chairs, sort of leaning into each other in a really- It was one of the images of the year.
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I was sort of like, whoa, that's a great image.
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I know. So what do you think about this shift? Who got his ear? Who got his ear?
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Is there a person you think got in his head?
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The Republicans were told to stay away. I did not have one Kellyanne Conway sighting. Usually she's at these things, swanning around, but she wasn't there. I'm trying to think what else was fun. I slept through the NBC party, so I slept all night. But the Tammy party was really fun. And I sat in a Corvette, which was cool. That was a cool car, beautiful new Corvette.
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Anything. Right, I agree. Anything. Anything. Yeah, that'll get him. He wants to put himself — position himself for the presidential race, obviously.
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I think he understands he got taken and he needs a win. And there's no winning with Vladimir Putin. And I think he understands that. Maybe he doesn't care about whatever with that relationship anymore. I think they kept bombing when they said they weren't. So, like, why wasn't he listening to me? I thought I had control.
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And he said he was going to do it on day one, if you remember, settle the war. Maybe he had some promise. He's got to settle it. And so I think backing Ukraine is the best way to do that. I mean, it's the only way. Punching a bully in the nose as a bully like Trump would know is the best way to do it. We'll see. I just was really struck by it. We'll see if he can. He could change next. Yes.
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Tomorrow. Like, who knows? That's the problem here. The flippity flippity.
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That's right. And also that someday Ukraine is going to be one of those countries, tech forward, exciting place to invest, exciting place for U.S. capitalists to be. It is a wonderful economy in that regard. It's just getting the shit beat out of them by a bunch of people who are not a wonderful economy.
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So it is a real opportunity to back Ukraine from a financial point of view, from what Scott was saying, and in the future. Anyway, we're going to move on. Speaking of now, the other side of Donald Trump, his official meme coin skyrocketed after announcement that the top 220 holders of the coin would get invited to dinner with the president. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What corruption in plain sight.
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Steve Ratner. wrote a great piece about this, by the way, this week. The initial price surge was over 50%, boosting the coin's total market value to $2.7 billion, with Trump and his allies reportedly pocketing close to $900,000 in trading fees in two days, in trading fees. Senator Chris Murphy posted on X that the meme coin sale was the most brazenly corrupt thing a president ever done.
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I think pretty much so. And Senators Adam Schiff and Elizabeth Warren are calling for an ethics investigation, saying this dinner might constitute a pay-to-play corruption. I think it doesn't constitute it. I think if he loses the House in two years, this is all we're going to be talking about. You have talked a lot about this meme coin. And then speaking of Ask Us, I'm going to add this on.
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Donald Trump Jr., along with Omid Malik, I think that's his name. Anyway. Several other investors are reportedly launching an invite-only club in DC that costs more than a half a million dollars to join. The executive branch will cater to business and tech models looking to nurture relations with Trump administration, according to Politico.
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This one just sounds douchey, but I don't have a problem with it. They can have their little clubs to meet at and do their man things there if they want. Talk about, the second one I don't think is corruption. I just think the Democrats have it too. There's always been clubs. There's always been this kind of thing. It just is extra douchey is all. Thoughts on the coin and the club?
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And saw the new EV Escalade, which was gorgeous. Yeah. I'm trying to think what else. Oh, there was a CNN party too. Oh, I'll tell you one story. So I'm at the CNN party. Mark Thompson's there, all the CNN, you know, all the various, you know, Wolf and et cetera, et cetera. And it was at the British Embassy, which has a new ambassador.
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They can go to a stake place or this place.
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They've been at it for a long time. They're experienced grifters. Go ahead.
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And that's always a nice place because it has a beautiful garden. It was a beautiful day. And I'm standing there. I was sort of like jawing with the Facebook PR people because of that story we'll talk about that Jeff Horowitz wrote in the Wall Street Journal about, sexy bots, essentially, that are probably bothering children.
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Can we hit them with a cane when they do it? Like, are they doing single?
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I don't know. I don't know. People would go, why are we paying the congressman a million?
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I don't think they would. They want to show that they're here.
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No, I think from the perception, I think people would be like, why are you getting a million dollars for that job? Like, what in the hell? I'm just saying, this would be a very difficult political thing to pull off.
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It's just such a good thing for, like, a Marjorie Taylor Greene to say, because she makes all this grift on the side. Speaking of grift, she had big stock sales. Yeah, I agree with you.
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But if you're going to insult Pelosi, please belly up to the fucking grift bar if you don't mind.
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All right. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump claims he's made 200 deals on tariffs. They're kissing my ass. Scott, we're back. As President Trump marks 100 days in office, 64% of Americans disapprove of how he's handling the tariffs, according to that new ABC News, Washington Post, Ipsos poll. It's one of many that are pointing in these directions.
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Trump is now saying he's made 200 deals on tariffs in an interview with Time magazine. He also keeps claiming to have spoken with China's President Xi. Who knows? China denies any talks are happening and said the U.S. should stop creating confusion. I'm believing China on this one. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson was on ABC's This Week where he attempted to explain Trump's tariff strategy.
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This was so painful to watch. Listen.
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And Joel Kaplan came up to me, the guy who's head of, you know, the big scary person of Facebook here in Washington, who's taken it sort of on a rightward shift or removed some moderation. And he came up to me. He said, I just want to thank you. Because I, you know, I had talked about that I didn't think what they said he did in that book he did, which I continue to agree. And I said...
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Oh my God, Scott, Scott, it's like sticking your eye with a dry stick and saying we won. Like what? Like this was like, it's chaos. I just don't, strategic, you do strategic uncertain to me all the time, Scott, and I find it irritating. That's all I have to say. Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts.
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The soon-to-probably-be-today, by the way.
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I kind of want to marry him. I think he's married.
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It's like, weren't you the one that... But talk about Besant here. Like, what is he doing?
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He's not impossible. He doesn't have to say this nonsense.
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Something like, well, if I'm going to hate you, I'm going to hate you for the right things, essentially. But we had an interesting talk. It was interesting. He won't have lunch with me, though.
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Yeah, he cries in his cashmere pillows. I can see that. Don't you see it? All right. We're going to move on in a second. But the word strategic uncertainty is chaos. That's their word they're using. And it's to put, you know, lipstick on a pig. This is a pig, no matter how you slice it. Like that is if you want to slice a pig. In any case, what a disaster.
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By the way, fast fashion giant that Scott likes, Shein, is already hiking prices as high as 377%. So instead of a dollar, it costs four dollars.
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Yeah. I said, come on, don't be scared. I said, are you a man or a mouse? And he said, a mouse. And that was it. What can you say after that? Squeak? I don't know.
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Yeah, it's just a mess. Anyway, speaking of another interesting thing, we haven't talked about Elon in a while. He's been very quiet recently. He's not wielding his chainsaw. As I noted, I saw the Escalade EV, which I thought was a very impressive car.
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But another one, again, the Cybertruck could have been a terrific, beautiful car, and it turned out to be a lemon, and it's a disaster for Tesla, quite a big disaster. A startup called Slate Auto, backed by Jeff Bezos and other investors, is launching a made-in-America EV truck with a starting price of 20K, inexpensive, after federal tax credits. The Slate's truck design is pretty basic.
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No power windows, no infotainment screen, no paint. People will get custom wraps. You can also change it, and you can put a back on it. It can be a... It can be a pickup. It can do a number of different things. It's really quite, I love the idea of it. It's a lot like Zoox, which he also has where you can customize it very much. It gets about 150 miles of range on a charge.
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The car is designed in California and Michigan, will be manufactured in the Midwest with domestically sourced parts. It's like a Lego car, it looks like. Slate plans start deliveries in late 2026. I bet they will. I bet they'll actually do what they say as opposed to what Tesla always does. Over in Europe, VW overtook Tesla as a top EV seller for the first three months of 2025. That's a big deal.
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Their car is an ID4, I think it's called. I want to buy it so badly, I can't even stand it. I don't care how much it costs. It's so great looking and looks terrific and well-made. All these EV companies, I've seen more and more, not just BYD, and there's another one in Japan, but
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Anyway, it was good. It was interesting to see some people and it was much more low key. So anyway, what did you do this weekend?
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So much competition, so many beautiful cars, which are fun and interesting and at so many different price points and EV sales are up along with hybrid sales. So again, another thing Tesla could have done and had the market and losing it because they had to indulge in his Cybertruck fantasies. So any quick thoughts?
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But let me just say, all the car companies really have exciting cars they're offering, all of them, in some ways. And they'll either be popular or not, but impressive. I mean, you put the Cybertruck next to these, and it's such a fail on behalf of Tesla to have had the lead here, and it could have been innovative. He just doesn't want to be in the car company.
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And then he's bragging about robo-taxis, which Waymo is doing beautifully. And then he's talking about the Optimus Prime, which nobody wants to have a robot in their house right now. It's just not happening. Maybe someday. But this idea, like these, they're indulging.
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I know, exactly. But you know what? They're indulging in this guy's weird fantasies. They never should have done the Cybertruck. Never. There was so much opportunity for him to do a big killer, Escalade killer, a Ford, you know, a truck killer. And he just... Didn't do it. Didn't do it. Had to create this weird thing a woman would never buy, and the only men that would buy it are dickless.
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Okay, one more quick break. That's a good one. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I think I'll go first today. There's a story in the Wall Street Journal, again, I argued with meta people this weekend at these parties, called Digital Companions. They have the ability to engage in romantic role play with users, including kids.
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According to a Wall Street Journal article, Mark is the one pushing it through to be more aggressive. I've talked to a lot of people internally at Facebook. They've been trying to keep them from doing that and to be very safety conscious around these things. Very similar to character AI, which was an offshoot of Google. People went off and did it and Google's now licensing it.
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And a lot of kids, one kid killed himself, et cetera. You cannot have digital companions that kids can get near. And there can't be any holes in your wall if you're going to do this. I have no problem with, I don't have a problem with these digital companions and being romantic.
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They cannot get near certain people, and it should be, like, the fact that the Wall Street Journal was able to get them to do this, and also, they also have celebrity voices for these things, and they start to get, apparently, John Cena got sexy with someone. He didn't want to get sexy with them, but he did. His bot did.
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And so, if you're going to do this stuff, you've got to have it locked the fuck down, and the fact that they haven't is just atypical.
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and mark is pushing it through and there's a lot of pressure etc etc um i think i just i'm just astonished that they continue to build things without this the the level of care they need to it's just maybe i shouldn't be surprised but it's really amazing that they keep doing so it's um it's it's such a fail so it's such an astonishing fail and i think probably my positive this week there's a lot of stuff coming out i'll be talking about mission the next mission impossible soon
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and other things that are coming out. Looks like some great movies this summer. But I have to say, I think this Carney in Canada is playing it beautifully. I assume he's going to win tonight, and he looks like he's on track to win. And what a comeback for the Liberals. And changing their candidate is what they did. They've been in charge for a long time.
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I don't think any country should have one party in charge for too long. But he seems to be a fresh new face when he's not a fresh new face. So it gives a lot of lessons to Democrats in terms of finding a fresh new face, even when you're not fresh. So I'm really, we'll see what happens. And then very briefly, there's a big outage of power in Spain and Portugal.
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And I hope good luck to the people there as it's happening. And of course, we have to think about a cyber attack. in situations like this, but they're having it right now and this is going to happen more in the future. Just Scott.
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No, it's not. That's fine.
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You're still watching Game of Thrones? Yes.
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What season are you on?
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I would agree. But if they're going to do it, they have to do it safely.
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I'll be honest with you.
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What disemboweling season are you on?
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They're going to make them, Scott. Whether you like it or not, they're going to make them. Because these guys, they can't have children, and they desperately want to have children in a weird, strange, fucked up way.
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I think sometimes I think AI. I told you this theory. I think AI is the way it gets so dominant by men and there's so lack of safety and everything else. I said it's because I think men can't have children. Certain men, not all of them think this way, but can't have children. This is their way of giving birth or something or creating.
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No, I think the people who run some of these companies, they can't make beings. It's a very beautiful thing to make a child. Men and women make them together, obviously, but really women grow children, right? And this is men's way of growing things, growing beings. I don't know. Anyway, go ahead.
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Who's the tall lady who plays the one who's all devoted to, is it Ned Stark or one of the Starks?
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Loneliness, you're right.
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Lady... Brienne of Tarth.
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That was beautiful.
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I know, but it's my favorite, Scott, just so you know.
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That was beautiful. That was beautiful, Scott. Let's embrace, and I see you next time, okay? Let's just embrace for a whole minute and a half.
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To you, not to you.
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Anyway, that was beautiful, Scott Galloway, and I appreciate that you brought it here. Anyway.
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A moment of beauty followed by a moment of horror. Okay, I didn't see that coming. Anyway, so it's a new joke. Thank you for the scrotum joke. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions. a few good jokes today about business tech or whatever's on your mind, go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
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Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week I talked to comedic actor Ed Helms for the On with Kara Swisher show. I named members of the Trump administration and asked Ed to match each of them with a character in The Office where he starred for so many years. Such a great guy.
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She's committed to him. That's right.
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He's been in tons of things like The Hangover, but he also has a really cool podcast about snafu, about fuck-ups over the many centuries. Let's listen to a clip. Pete Hegseth.
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I got out. This is disembowelment season. When they kept disemboweling people, I was like, and I really don't want to see this. And then when they crushed beautiful Pedro Pascal's head, I didn't like that at all.
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Someone thinks Meredith, actually, because alcoholism. Oh, interesting. J.D. Vance.
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Yeah, absolutely. Kash Patel.
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He's really delightful. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out, and your jokes are excellent today. I have to give you the star. Five stars. Five stars. Thanks for that.
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Rest in peace, Pope Francis.
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I did not know that was coming. I told you this. I was like, what? Like, I hate when that happens, when I'm like, oh, he's going to get killed. I did not have any clue that that was what was going to happen.
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Yeah, I think they're married.
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A love story that continues, yeah.
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What is it? It sounds like a gay bar, but go ahead. Bum bum train? Go ahead.
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Oh my God, that's cool.
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So London is feeling kind of fun. The weather's nice, right? The weather's turning nice, correct?
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It's so beautiful there when it gets warm. It really is.
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Washington right now has been spectacular for weeks and weeks. Just one beautiful tree explodes after another, flowers everywhere. This weekend was quite beautiful. It's just gorgeous out and then it gets like a swamp, a complete swamp.
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That's good. I'm glad you're liking the London. I could come to London and bother you. I've got to stay at your house, et cetera. Go through your things.
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Nice. Nice, nice, nice. So May is coming. May is coming. We're almost into May, which is really nice. I'm going to San Francisco this weekend. Do you know what I'm getting?
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I'm going on Bill Maher on Friday.
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I'm the panel, but it's just me and Kevin McCarthy. I mean, of all people.
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He was excited. He was like, I was like the former dingity dog, was excited to be with Kara Swisher. Fine. All right, Kevin.
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Learn more at chevy.com forward slash Equinox EV. The manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price. What is he eating? Oh, now he's licking his fingers. Gross. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
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No, I have several.
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I can lend them. Anyway.
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Anyway. All right. Now, wake up. We got a lot to get to.
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Yes, that's correct. Okay.
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I can feel that. Okay. We got a lot to get to today, including Trump's latest meme coin scheme and the new affordable American-made EV truck backed by Jeff Bezos. It's quite adorable. And again, I just saw the EV of the Escalade, which I also thought was fantastic. It gets 466 miles to a charge, which is amazing. But first, Alphabet earnings are out, and Scott, it's time for another Victory Lab.
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You are hitting it on all cylinders as non-enterpreneur.
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That's right. The company overall revenue grew 12% year-over-year, beating expectations. Overall advertising was up 8.5% from the previous year, and Search and other reported over $50 billion, up 9.8%. Well done, Sundar Pichai. AI Overviews, Alphabet's AI tool at the top of Google search page has 1.5 billion monthly users and Waymo is providing over 250,000 rides per week.
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I gotta say Waymo is the quiet storm in a lot of ways in terms of being successful and useful to people. It's coming to Washington supposedly. And Alphabet's first quarter profit was boosted by $8 billion in unrealized gains from investments in private company such as SpaceX. They make investments for people to understand. Listen to what you had to say last week before these earnings were out.
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Well done. Although I have to tell you, Scott, a lot of people are talking about these cases, which they absolutely agree with you and I that will be broken up.
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Anyway, so Microsoft, Meta, Apple, and Amazon are reporting later this week. Any predictions and any thoughts on Google?
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It's good there's a competitor. Let's be clear. There's never been a significant competitor to Google as yet. This is, you would say, a significant competitor on some level, even if it's smaller.
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Yeah, exactly. About 27 of them are mine whenever I'm in San Francisco. I'll be taking it when I get to San Francisco.
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Scott, I went to the White House Correspondents. Oh, you went? No, I didn't go to the dinner itself. There was parties.
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So Alphabet- But we both think it should be broken up, right? Or it will be, correct?
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And here's the thing- Well, this one in particular is under more pressure than any other company to be broken up.
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I went to the parties. I didn't go to anything. And I actually slept through one of the better parties. I came home after Tammy Hadid's party and was so tired I slept the rest of the night.
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Microsoft, yeah, you don't. I think Sundar's often been thought of as an afterthought, for sure. There was a whole spate of things. He can't make decisions to save his life. that people were leaving. It's not innovative enough. It's too staid. I mean, those were all the takes on him.
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And obviously, these cases that they have lost to the federal government, I think they're going to be a boon to them. I think it's actually not the worst thing in the world to have to do what they're going to probably have to do.
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It does. We both have faced – so many people are facing this challenge. Like, wherever you are on the spectrum, it's something – it's really difficult the way our system is set up for people who need help or – extra help for figuring out nursing. This is a beautiful facility. I'm not going to name the name of it, but it's really lovely. And lucky requires a certain level of, you know, fanciness.
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Yeah. Yeah. It was quite something. We'll see. It looks like a lot of chess something to me when we have to be thinking broader. But he doesn't want to. You're right. He wants a photo op. And we'll see where it goes and who he next spells. But please, please, Office of the President, spell people, countries' names correctly. I'm sorry. I find that was just so sloppy.
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I know. Speaking of which, to explain again why you are part of Colombia, why you're a pro-Colombian.
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Oui, I love oui. Who did you buy it with?
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You fly me down there, I will go. It's going to be great. It's going to be a tough one. I will go if you fly me down. That's my deal with you. If you fly me down there.
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I understand that. I need you to fly me down there, though, okay? and invite me to a game. It'll be really fun. Let's do Scott's 60th birthday redux, okay?
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I know what you did. Explain what you did this weekend very briefly. Go ahead.
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What did you do for your employees too? I heard about that.
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Yeah, very generous. You're a very good employer. Someone was asking me if you were generous.
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It's all over social media. That's why I'm bringing it up. It's not a secret. Very generous. I said you were generous to someone. They were questioning me. And I said, no, he really is actually. Listen, we stayed at his apartment. He's often generous about things that other people are not. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, will Oracle be TikTok's savior? We'll discuss.
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But it's really difficult because you have to figure out where to put them, the nursing care, the medical care. As people get older, you have to have things that have, like, graded. You just need a little help, more help, the most help, et cetera. It's really something. It takes a lot out of your system.
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Scott, we're back. and has been dealing with a lot of stuff related to TikTok, so it's quite familiar with it. Microsoft had been part of the previous thing when Trump tried to ban TikTok in his previous administration when he was anti-TikTok, owned by the Chinese. He had brought Oracle in and Microsoft was there. He wanted a VIG for the US taxpayer, which I kind of like.
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He said the decision on the sale will likely happen in the next 30 days. Obviously, Elon's floating around the basket. All kinds of people are there. You know, there's some others who are not really going to be investors, I would say, but we'll see. So the Chinese might still own a piece of it, by the way, a smaller piece of it. Thoughts?
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Yeah, I think that's exactly right. We'll see. I think the question is, as Mark Cuban put it to me at the time when this was happening, the last go around, I think, was what do you get for it? Like, what do you get for it with the Chinese and the algorithm? Can they recreate the algorithm, which is so popular? Again, China's done an astonishing job at creating a service that is infectious, right?
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That's really fun to use and everything else. So what do you get with it? They're not going to give you the original algorithm. So what do you get? You get the brand. And is that worth that? And can they replicate it quickly, etc., etc. ? And will China even let you do this, any of this? You're correct. Will they even let you? There might be, obviously, behind the scenes things happening.
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He could threaten a tariff. But over TikTok, he's going to threaten a tariff. It's a much bigger picture with China than just one service. So I don't know. I don't see other investors jumping in. I think the ones you imagine being there, Oracle, Microsoft. Elon Musk, you know, there's a whole bunch of people you could see involved here. And you're right, anybody would want a piece of this.
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But there is a significant risk of it becoming a MySpace-like situation where it's not worth anything after a certain amount of time and other things. And people may create copies of this and the new thing. So we'll see. But there's no lack of money in Silicon Valley. Meta's AI spending, for example, we were just talking about what they're doing.
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Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct. How did you know?
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But Mark Zuckerberg announced last week that Meta's capital expenditures are between $60 and $65 billion this year, a huge jump from $40 in 2024. Again, most of the money will go towards building expanding data centers that power Meta's AI products. They're doing one in Louisiana. How interesting. right where Speaker Johnson is.
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And Mark noted that data center in Louisiana will be so big it could cover a significant part of Manhattan. This spending, just, you know, is he trying to top the Stargate announcement? They're all seeming rushing to make these big announcements, and we'll see where those go, right? Spending is not the only way out of this thing, but it's certainly where these companies are headed.
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Yeah, it's still beautiful. Remains beautiful. It's the Catherine Deneuve of cities.
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No, she's not. She's not in your investor group. One of the things that's interesting about the spending, you remember when we were like going, God, that $10 billion on the Metaverse is ridiculous? Remember that?
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Nothing. Nothing, yeah. I mean, just think about that. That was what, two years ago when we were talking about that? And that's gone. That's like, see you later, alligator.
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Yeah, it's much less. Obviously, they're still there with the Ray-Ban glasses, but it's much diminished, let's just say. And this is the way they're going. We'll see if it's money well paid off or if it's not, or if they're racing towards, you know, a lot of people I talk to now, they're like, it's a race to the bottom with this stuff eventually. So we'll see where this spending matters.
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And again, it could almost be like I had an argument with someone online. If you didn't invest in the internet back in 92, like, there was a lot of spending. It seemed out of line. So, and obviously, it wasn't. Anyway, we'll see what happens. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, Target becomes the latest company to roll back DEI.
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And you got to sell it. You got to sell it. It's so funny because last night struggling with Saul over a whole bunch of things. And then my mom's actually being very cooperative. She wants to be right near me. But it's really interesting because, you know, I'm like dealing with Saul and like potty training or whatever it happened. I want to carry this train. I want to do this.
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Scott, we're back. This story just never ends. Target is one of the latest companies to hop on the anti-DEI train. They got spooked because they had some gay flags up and it made their CEO, Brian Cornell, into a giant wimp. a program focused on carrying more products from Black and minority-owned businesses, but not everybody is hopping aboard.
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Costco said 98% of shareholders voted against the proposal to review risk to its DEI programs. Same thing with Apple. There's a whole bunch of others. There is a lot of legal attacks by the same people who brought you the attacks on affirmative action and everything else. So it's going to the Supreme Court, these DEI cases eventually, and some of the companies are holding firm, others are not.
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I don't know if it's a bow down to Trump or a way for companies to get out of doing something they never wanted to, put effort in in the first place. I don't know. Your thoughts on this?
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Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. One of the things, I had an interesting argument with someone, you know, because say Patagonia, which is very, you know, it signals liberal, right? You know, recycling. And a lot of kids like it. They like to do it. And then I was talking about Ben Shapiro was selling razors. He has a very substantive e-commerce business, I think. And they're anti-woke razors.
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And it's very similar techniques. Yeah, you're right. You can carry a kid and throw them on the bed or whatever. But yeah. Yeah.
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And someone was getting mad at them. I'm like, well, I bought them because I wanted to see if they're good. They're good razors, by the way. Yeah.
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I can shake my legs. I can shake my legs. I shouldn't miss. So I think you should be able to do this on either side. That's right. The issue I have is how angry and ridiculous people like Bill Ackman are over it. They virtue signal themselves how horrible it is. It is not horrible to want to have more equitable for lots of different people because
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They've gamed the system for themselves for so, so long. And the directionality is the correct one, is we want a more diverse group of people. And I don't just mean gender. I don't just mean race. I mean age. I mean political affiliation. It is a stronger company. Their anger and ire is so out of line with ours.
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figuring out a great way to be more equitable as a country, that it's kind of, like, to me, that's the tell with these people, is they just can't shut the fuck up. And then they blame, like, Elon, like, oh, the plane crashed because of DEI. This happened because of DEI. They attribute it, the fires, DEI. None of this is true. And that drives me fucking nuts. Or like Megyn Kelly calling...
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making fun of fat lesbian firefighters. There's so many fat firefighters who are white men. Let's stop with this. Whatever, it doesn't really matter. But using it as a cudgel has gotten way out of line. That's my feeling on the whole thing.
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Anyway, speaking of a case that I'm really interested in, Character AI has filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit brought by a mother whose 14-year-old son committed suicide allegedly after interacting with a chatbot for months. The characterized lawyers say the platform is protected by First Amendment.
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They're also arguing users' First Amendment rights would be violated, not the company's, if the suit succeeds. You'll remember I spoke with Megan Garcia, the mother who brought this case against the character AI in Google, along with her lawyer back in December. Garcia's lawyer, Mitali Jain, was already anticipating part of this argument from the other side. Let's listen.
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So anyway, they're going to try to do that. I just feel like kids shouldn't be using these things. Maybe that's the issue. Adults is another issue. The latest motion did not address Section 230, though it's possible it'd come down the line. Obviously, they're saying that their bots can say anything they want. But of course, we prosecuted a young woman for convincing a young man to commit suicide.
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And I'm like, that's what a thick ear? That's a cauliflower ear.
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So this is not free speech. This is dangerous speech, and especially when it's kids under 18 years old. I'm sorry. These people should go to jail as far as I'm concerned, but thoughts?
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Yeah, absolutely. Character AI, I have contacted a dozen people around this to take a look at it. And they have Ro Khanna, many others. So I'm not giving up on this case at all. It's really, you know, as a guy with kids, it's just if you don't have to have kids to be concerned about this, you would prosecute. someone who did this to your kid who's living, we're going to be prosecuting these bots.
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People who are living can't do this. People who are actual humans can't do this. Neither can bots. They absolutely cannot. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first or shall I?
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Well, a win. I got to tell you, I'm watching Severance so, so good. Oh, really? Ben's show. Ben's show. He's directed a lot of them. He's not the writer of it, but it's his show. He produces it. I went back and we've been watching the last—I'm going to interview him soon—watching the last couple episodes of the last season, but it is now watching the new season. It is such a fantastic mindfuck.
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Yes, yeah, yeah. Never did, never did.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
And it's everything we talk about around yourself, where you split your work up. It's return to work. It's isolation. It's technology. It's so funny. It's a workplace comedy, but it's not. Like, it's a thriller. And it's, it is, there's all these characters who, let me just say, all these actors are superb. And some of them I've never seen.
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Yet there is that, you know, balance. Like I definitely saw an eye or like, he's like, huh, can she get me? I don't know. Can she catch me? You can see him like doing that. I try to be the tougher parent, but.
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There's two in particular who are astonishing, who I've never seen. There's some well-known actors who are killing it here, like Christopher Walken and John Turturro. Just every bit of it is beautifully designed, beautifully photographed. You know, Adam Scott, who's the main character in it, is amazing. The visuals just... I cannot say enough about this show.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
And it's so smart, but also accessible. I just love it. I have to say. That is my... That is my win. My fail is, as I predicted, there are going to be increasing numbers of efforts to get marriage, gay marriage, in front of the Supreme Court again. Idaho is the latest trying to push up against current law, trying to get the Supreme Court law that passed gay marriage. It's Obergefell.
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And so it's been legal. Same-sex marriage has been legal in Idaho since 2014. But they are trying—the Idaho lawmakers want to overturn same-sex marriage decision and bring it back to the states. So they're trying to get a challenge to that, to take it to the Supreme Court, because some of the new Supreme Court justices and some of the others are trying to make the same thing with abortion.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
And I don't care— We were right about abortion, and I'm 100% right here. They want to bring it to the states. They want to undo. It's Obergefell versus Hodges. It was a landmark decision that gave same-sex couples the right to marry. Obviously, they're attacking the 14th Amendment, which is part of it, is based on that. And they want to reverse it.
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And so there's all kinds of funding, just like the people who are doing DEI, just like the people who are doing that. They're going for this to try to get it. to the Supreme Court so they can do something like they just did. And that's all they're doing is a naked grab for overturning the gay marriage Supreme Court decision, like they overturned Roe v. Wade. And it's very vulnerable.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Two court justices, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, said it should be reconsidered. So we'll see. It's theater. It's theater, but they're going to try to do this. They're trying to get a case up there that will make it happen. The same way they're trying to get a libel case up there So that journalists lose their libel protections they've had for so long. So I just watch this space.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
I keep saying it. I'm not overreacting here. It's disturbing. I don't know what they'll do with current marriages, but boy, I'm frightened for all of us.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Right. Yeah. Yeah. But Claire, on the other hand, like she makes her bed when you ask her, you have to ask her things three times. But it's anyway, it's just it's an interesting dichotomy of dealing with elderly. Anyway, I love the place. Lucky we'll be here. And so you can see her whenever you come visit Scott.
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He was in Germany. Be clear where he was.
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Called Alternative for Germany Party, just so you know.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Can I just say, let me just read Elon's quotes. He said, there's too much focus on past guilt, which was Nazism. It's good to be proud of German culture, German values, and not lose that in some sort of multiculturalism that dilutes everything. We don't want everyone to be the same everywhere where it's just one big sort of soup. I don't even know what to say.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
You know why I know about Eleven? Because we were on the beach in Miami and they kept going by with a plane saying Eleven. Is it a strip club? Is that what it is?
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There's never enough indignance on that topic, but go ahead.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
AOC, you know who I just watched Charlamagne Tha God saying here's AOC. He was saying that he's like, stop, stop being nice to them, like push back. And then he was using AOCs. And she was like, going to the inauguration? No, I don't go to the inauguration of a rapist and an insurrectionist. I don't. Okay, next question.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Like, it was really interesting because she's, and she's much more articulate than that. That was sort of a slap, but you're right. I agree. Like we said, we're not going to be cooperative.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Let's do it with this show. How about that?
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Yeah, very much like this senior facility I'm putting mom in. It's just nice enough.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
We're trying to do it. We're trying to get them mad. Let's get them mad.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
All right, okay. Not violence-ish.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Anyway, we want to hear from you. We do not choose violence. Just so you know, we do not choose violence. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. We choose angry. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. And while we're at it, the results from last week's Threads poll are in.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
We asked you about who you thought would be the next person in Trump's inner orbit to get the boot. Some popular answers, Tulsi Gabbard, Kash Patel, and our favorite, Melania. That is not happening just yet. Melania is totally in on this whole thing, folks. Don't think she's in. She is. Grifter numero dos. You mean the Hamburglar? Whatever, the Hamburglar. Okay.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, for On with Kara Swisher, I recently spoke with MSNBC's Chris Hayes, who has a new book out called The Siren's Call. It's all about how our world has become a battle for who or what can grab our attention. He's trying to get on the Jonathan Hayes and Scott Galloway bandwagon. Chris shared his predictions from what might happen next. Let's listen.
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He's on our bandwagon, Scott. Thank you for arriving, Chris. We've been at this for a long time.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
He's well-spoken, though. We'll take him. Chris, we'll take you in our army of this kind of thing. More power to you. We're with you, Chris. But we're violent, so be careful. Oh, right. Anyway, you were, by the way, Scott, you were in the Financial Times this week and you had a few quotes about the rise of Manosphere podcasts.
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I was literally pinging everyone.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
True, true. Although I have to say, they can also be repulsive. Like Alex is pretty, you know, he's sort of is like frat guy, big guy, sports guy, finds these people repellent in a different way. It's like, what a bunch of idiots. Like there is a backlash for another kind of man. He loves you.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Let me just tell you, if Alex Swisher keeps quoting Scott Galloway to me, I don't know what I'm going to do. I love that.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
No, I don't hate it. But I'm like, well, I kind of did something on Yonder. And he's like, yeah, yeah. But what Scott said, literally, I was like, well, I kind of did a podcast on that.
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I'm just saying my son is fully in the Scott Galloway maniverse. That's all I have to say.
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They have, but there's another manosphere that I think is coming. I can feel it.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
There is. I like a manosphere. I like a man cave. It's coming. Anyway, Scott, read us out, manosphere.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Yeah, I was talking about the economics. Like, there's the high-end ones, there's the lesser high. It's sort of like Disney is into it. Really, it's a very difficult thing, especially as people live longer, as you know. And we keep them alive longer, actually, when people used to just keel over much earlier. Yeah.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Doesn't matter. Doesn't work on Lucky either. Let me just tell you, Lucky is as sharp as a frigging tack. Let me tell you, it would be a lot easier if she wasn't as sharp. She clocks everything, Scott, let me just say. Anyway, it's just mobility is the issue with her.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Yes, it's true, and my brothers who were really wonderful, and my sister-in-law, everyone. Amanda went with me today. It takes a village, let's just say, to take care of a cranky little baby.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Yes, we do, and it's still exhausting. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. There's so much going on, speaking of cranky people, trade wars, TikTok, and Target. But first, this is a really interesting story, and I think we have discussed the amount of spending on AI that U.S. companies do, the price of chips.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
the run-up of NVIDIA, but there's a new AI model on the scene that's smart, cheap, and made in China. It's called DeepSeq, and it's causing a panic in Silicon Valley, which is paying a lot of attention, and also on Wall Street.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
DeepSeq has reportedly outperformed models from OpenAI, Meta, and Anthropic in some third-party tests, and it operates at a fraction of the cost of those models using fewer high-end chips. This is the ones that are made by NVIDIA and are hard to get, and the incumbents have been pricing them up heavily by grabbing all of them. The markets are not reacting well to DeepSeek as of this recording.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
NVIDIA is down 16%. Oracle is down 10%. Microsoft is down nearly 4%. Obviously, Meta is going to be affected, all the others. So there's a lot to talk about, and I've seen different analysis of exactly what DeepSeek does. Jan LeCun from Meta was making an argument that it isn't as
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
they're doing sort of a cheap and dirty version, then it's not nearly as the stuff they're doing is much more advanced by the U.S. companies. We're going to talk about Meta's AI plans in a bit. They've reportedly set up several war rooms to dissect and analyze DeepSeek. It's currently number one on Apple's free top apps chart. Again, China invading in this country in a very different way.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
So thoughts on this situation? Because you and I have talked about this quite a bit. Is this money ill spent by U.S. ? companies and is it being relegated to the rich incumbents?
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Scott, what do you think I did this morning?
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Guess who might be living in Washington, D.C.? Lucky.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Let me read Yann LeCun, who's the head of Meta. I just recently interviewed him, and you can go listen to that long interview about this. But he's writing, to the people who see the performance of DeepSeek and think China is surpassing the U.S. in AI, you're reading this wrong. The correct reading is open-source models are surpassing proprietary ones.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
DeepSeek has profited from open research and open source, for example, PyTorch and Lama from Meta. They came up with new ideas and built on top of other people's work because their work is published in open source. Everyone can profit from it. This is the power of open research and open source. Obviously, this is the way— He's talking his own book. That's correct.
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I was just going to make that point.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Yes, that's correct. That's what I was going to say. But it's interesting. He's having really interesting arguments. And he said—and one of them that he just did, because Gary Marcus, this guy who's somewhat of a crank a little bit— was saying that Congress needs to bring in Zuckerberg and Lacoon to discuss how their unilateral open sourcing decision rapidly undermined the U.S.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Not yet. Not yet. We're looking at this new... They took this amazing hotel, the Fairfax Hotel, and it's right down on Embassy Row. And they've turned it into a senior facility that's very elegant. We have fans there, by the way. Brian, shout out to you. Brian of the innovation part of this thing. But I'm thinking of making the move.
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advantage in general of AI. He goes, an absolutely hilarious take revealing the complete misunderstanding of the fact that open research, open source accelerates progress for everyone from someone who's repeatedly claimed that deep learning was hitting a wall.
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But one of the things he just wrote again, because he's getting in there very deeply, major misunderstanding about AI infrastructure investments. Much of those billions are going into infrastructure for inference, not training. Running AI assistant services for billions of people requires a lot of compute once you put video understanding first.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
reasoning, large-scale memory, and other capabilities into AI systems. Inference costs are going to increase. The only real question is whether users will be willing to pay enough directly or not to justify CAPEX and OPEX." I think that's probably, he thinks these reactions are woefully unjustified, and at the same time, he's arguing that they aren't, which is interesting.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
There's a lot of really great. So one thing that social media sucks most of the time, but there's a lot of great things called like use chat GPT, use this and they tell you how to do things like put your deck in and here's the seven things you ask it and it improves it. But you're right. These open source models have been a boon for China for sure in keeping up. Yeah.
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Lama's the most open one and has the most information.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
It does feel a little nervous. I think people feel a little nervous.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
We should do a whole show on dealing with elderly parents and stuff. You and I should, I think.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
Well, speaking of world, speaking of free trade, President Trump almost began the first trade war of his term this week. And the U.S. and Colombia spent most of Sunday in a standoff after Colombia's president said he had denied entry to U.S. military planes carrying Colombian migrants, saying deportation should be done with dignity and respect.
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Trump responded by saying he'd impose a 25 percent tariff on Colombian goods. coffee, which was met with retaliatory tariffs from Colombia. By the end of the day, Colombia had said it had overcome the impasse and would facilitate the planes. I'm not sure what happened, removing the tariff threat. Trump's trying to say it's because he's chest-beating.
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DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback
So these threats he's making, he seemed to have had it written out and everything else. He misspelled the country's name, spelled it like the place you might get a puffy jacket in the winter. Columbia, the sportswear maker. But in any case, thoughts on this, on the threat he made and where it ended up? Because this guy's social media was pretty tough.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It gives you an insight to this company who are indeed careless people. But I'm not so sure... this is the best narrator to tell it, although a lot of it is really important. And lots of people I trust have mixed feelings on this book as I do.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Some of it. Some of it. Some of the memos she has are really important to read. Like, these are actual memos and things like that of how they did things. I just think it's her take on—she's always the hero in the story, and I know a lot of people who work there who try really hard to do the right thing. And I think in some places where they had successes, she takes a lot of the credit.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I've heard that. I have to acknowledge that. Yeah.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I think that's one of the things— Certain people like Katie Harbath, who I like very much, who have been big Facebook critics, find issues with this, like in the telling of the stories. Now, it's a memoir, so this is her telling of the story. And I just wrote my own memoir, so I understand how people might not agree with my take on situations either.
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But this has been met by a lot of people whom I know.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
trust saying this is not the way it happened that said i think her vibe is absolutely correct this sort of carelessness i think is absolutely true i think uh you know how they go about doing things is true uh the china stuff is really interesting to understand it gives you great insight into the company and that stuff is i think very much the vibe is correct
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Anyway, Puerto Rico. I'm in Puerto Rico. It's lovely here. Are you enjoying it? Yeah, I'm going back today. I'd rather not go back at all, but it's lovely. It's a lovely place. Food, amazing. Got a great Airbnb. It was great. Just a really nice. I had three of the four kids, and it's been lovely. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Elon's visit to the Pentagon.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I also don't know why she waited so long if this was so critical. Of course, that's a Facebook argument, and I don't think it's a wrong one. But I do think Facebook has reacted emotionally on this stuff and has made it into a bestseller, so more people are reading it. Because one of the things, and I told this to someone from Meta, I'm like... They're like, it's not trustworthy.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I said, neither are you. So it's not like we trust Meta when they're actually telling the truth. And that's the problem is that nobody has any trust for this company. And so you assume the worst of them. And in my case, I do think it does hurt for people who are critics of them when things aren't buttoned up. Unfortunately, you have to be super buttoned up with these people. 100%.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And I was supposed to interview her, but there was way too many holes. I didn't feel like slagging her, and I didn't feel like defending Facebook. And I just think she's got the vibe right. She's got the vibe right.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It did. I hate to say that, but I really did. And the Sandberg stuff, I'm a little kinder to her than you are. But I can see how that happened and the way she told it isn't correct. I can see Cheryl's very, I would say, sisterly or motherly with her employees. And all tech companies, and Facebook included, are far too familial with their employees.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And especially in the early days, it was like a frat sometimes. Sometimes it was like a family thing. dysfunctional family, for sure. Facebook wasn't as much of a frat as, say, Google was in many ways. And I think there was a familiarity in those companies that has long gone now, but initially was present. And I think all these companies were sort of behaved in ways that HR would just blush at.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And at one point, there was a meta, it was Facebook at the time, person in HR, and they had just gotten there. And I said, what's your job? And she said, I'm the vice president of keeping people from fucking each other. And it was like, I laughed out loud. And Facebook wasn't the worst of them, which is interesting, as I recall. But there was just a familiarity.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
So I could see her saying, oh, sleep in the bed. You're pregnant. Sleep in the bed. No, do it. Like, I could see her doing that in a very sisterly, motherly way. I can't see her.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I don't think she's... She kind of does, but it's not quite there. Also, if you read it, it's sort of like, it's more invasive, I guess, than anything else, and it leaves the reader to decide what the intent was. But let me just say, I can see Saoirse being overly sisterly, motherly. I couldn't, this is just kind of ridiculous on some level.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And so even leaving it open really irritated me, I think, in a lot of ways. Although, again... I would read it because I think some of the memos and the vibe is correct. I think she does nail these people is the kind of vibe they have, which is whatever it takes. And I think that is... But that is not a new, fresh piece of information for any of us.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Tesla facing more trouble with a massive Cybertruck recall. I saw one Cybertruck here, by the way, Scott, in Puerto Rico. That's it. That's all I've seen is one. But there's not that many that were sold, apparently, as the massive Cybertruck recall has shown. Where are you right now?
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
That's why I recommend reading it because the stuff around the memos is really interesting. And I found it. I found insight in it. That's absolutely sure. Anyway, we should move on. Speaking of which, another person, another piece of shit in this. case, not Facebook, but RFK Jr. 's latest target is surprisingly one we can almost agree on, cell phones in schools, sort of.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Talking about the risk of cell phone use for kids on Fox and Friends, Kenny did mention depression and poor performance, but then what did he do? Let's listen.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And there he goes, down the highway. Research so far has not found an association between cell phone use and cancer nor DNA damage. Last year, the Surgeon General Vivek Murthy called on schools to ban phones in classrooms for the good reasons, which are depression and poor performance, that he had to do this. Oh, God, I want to just... I can't slap someone.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I mean, I would like to virtually slap him for doing this because it's an important issue. And as usual, he enters all kinds of conspiracy theories into it without, you know, I don't know what to say. Just once again, this is the exact same thing. It's like he's making a good point and then down he goes down conspiracy highway with his nonsensical bullshit. Your thoughts?
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
That's a trauma. Mine was Halloween. Halloween was mine.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I just, I agree. That's a good, lovely story about the exorcist. But again, mine was Halloween. Mine was Halloween. I hate that movie. Fucking movie. I love Jamie Lee Curtis, but I hate that movie.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
No, no, that was a different one. Oh, that's Halloween.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Yes, that's right. Yes. No, it's not. It's just... Jamie Lee Curtis. Ugh. She's hot. She's a great person. Is she? She's a great person. Yes, I've interviewed her and have talked to her in the interim, and she's a wonderful, lovely, jolly, fantastic person. Just a really, a real... A real winner. In any case, RFK, we really think kids should not have phones in schools.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
You're now fucking wrecking it for us. Like, stop wrecking things for us. This is going to set it back, unfortunately. Same thing with, I think, careless people. But again, read it nonetheless. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon Musk's visit to the Pentagon. Last week, John Levitt joined me to co-host an episode of Pivot, and it was a great one.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
If you enjoyed that, you'll love his podcast, Love It or Leave It. Love It or Leave It is America's top late-night political gay live comedy podcast. John takes on the biggest and most absurd stories in politics and helps you stay informed while laughing instead of crying. Sometimes he cries. Each episode promises big-name guests, unexpected conversations, and can't-miss moments.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Catch new episodes of Love It or Leave It every Saturday. Watch on YouTube. or join the live show in LA to witness the chaos in person. Scott, we're back. President Trump is denying a report that Elon Musk was set to be briefed on top secret war plans for China during a visit to the Pentagon last week.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
According to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, Elon's visit was just an informal meeting about innovation, efficiencies and smarter production. Trump was later asked about Elon's possible involvement in Chinese foreign policy during a presser. Let's listen to what he said.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Well, at least Trump's telling the truth there, but I don't think he's telling the truth. I think Elon has enormous access to intel. I think both the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, I think, reported this, as well as the New York Times. The New York Times, I think, broke it. I just think this is exactly what they were going to do. And I don't believe Keith Hicks.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I don't believe Donald Trump. I don't believe Elon Musk. And so in this case, I believe the reporters, and they probably pulled it back, the briefing he was going to get. I think he's got his fingers in all kinds of stuff that has potential conflicts of interest. I don't even think they're potential. I think everything he's doing right now has a massive conflict of interest.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Any thoughts on this one? Because there's also one, of course, SpaceX is positioning itself to get billions of dollars in new federal contracts or other support, according to a report, again, in the New York Times. NASA, the Pentagon, the FAA, and the Commerce Department are among the agencies with ongoing and new deals with SpaceX.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
SpaceX will also get a boost from Trump's new space-based missile defense project called the Golden Dome. This is just ridiculous. Like, he's just so, he's got so many business interests and so many conflicts, Scott.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
The Reagan one. What was the Reagan one?
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Oh, that's great. It's a ton of fun.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Good. We went to the rainforest. We went to the beach, the rainforest. Puerto Rico is a beautiful place. It really is.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It's lovely. It's sort of, you know, it's like most tropical areas, but it's really lovely. And the people are wonderful. And the food is strikingly good. There's a lot of beans and rice and stuff like that, but it's been delicious.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Pivot
Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I know. Neither did I. And I actually have been very pleasantly surprised.
Pivot
Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Oh, yeah. I think it's hard to do those tax moves. Like, Monaco was another one, right? There's a couple that people pull. Florida, obviously.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g a Cybertruck face-off that was very sad for a Cybertruck and very happy for the Ford 150. There's this interview that his estranged daughter, Vivian Wilson, did for Teen Vogue and was on the cover. I love Teen Vogue, by the way. I think it's a really great publication.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Wilson, who is a trans woman, called her father cringe and a pathetic man-child. She said she had not had a relationship with him since 2020, not a very good one before that. This apparently did not sit well with Elon, who deadnamed his daughter on X again, calling out the woke mind virus yet again, saying he's going to kill it once again.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
He's also been amplifying a conspiracy theory about trans people vandalizing Teslas. He went on a rampage. I thought this interview was fantastic. It was very funny. It was like a 20-year-old, a young person, just pretty cool, a pretty cool young person who all who had a lot of wisdom at the same time really did understand herself in terms of not knowing everything.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It was very self-aware in a really, I thought, a very smart way. It reminded me a lot of my own two older kids. They know what they don't know, but they also love to brag a little bit. And I thought it was a wonderful interview and I thought the pictures were wonderful. And that she gets under his skin so much is really quite delightful on so many levels. And it's a big risk for someone like this.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
She lives in Japan, but... She doesn't have financial links with him, but he's still a very powerful person. And obviously it set him off quite a bit, especially because she is everything. She is a delight online and he is not. She is funny online. He is not. And so she's everything he's wanted to be online, which is cool, I guess. Your thoughts?
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Wow. Isn't that crazy? So they're doing it just to avoid taxes, to avoid... You know, on some level, it's sort of like they should probably lower taxes. At the same time, the tax avoidance schemes are so insane. I remember we had some stories in Puerto Rico when a lot of the Bitcoin guys came in. They were sort of wrecking the place.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I would agree. I don't think it's working, though. I have to tell you, my sons make constant. And they used to really like him. I have to say they did. But now they trade back and forth all these videos on Teslas and stuff. And they were horrified by it. His response to the daughter, they thought the daughter was cool. Like the daughter's fucking cool. Like she really is.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And again, what I really liked about it is she understood what she didn't know. And she says like, maybe that'll change. Maybe I'm wrong. Like she had more self-awareness at 20 years old. in a very difficult position than he has had his whole life. So let's just give kudos to her mom, who was quoted in the piece, and I thought was a wonderful piece, essentially calling her daughter magical.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And really, it was a wonderful quote from the mother. And sounds like, and I know Justine a little bit, and it's just really terrific. And thank goodness for that.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
She's lovely. She's really interesting, smart, and just obviously a great parent here in this situation, in this really incredibly difficult situation.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It is, actually. I'm translucent. I've become invisible. We're going to move on. We're going to move on. Okay. Anyway, Vivian, great job. Great job, Vivian. We think you're amazing, and we think your father's an asshole just like you do. Anyway, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first?
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And at the same time, we're buying up these expensive houses and they were conducting themselves badly. And the whole thing was so icky. Like the ways, the gyrations people make to do this kind of stuff. It's a, it seems ridiculous on some level. I get the Monaco thing and I know people like different tennis stars have lived in Monaco to avoid taxes and this and that.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I think you got to give the... Well, there's one small win, which is this New York Times piece on Hooters becoming a refuge for young gay men. And it's this wonderful piece where a lot of dads... Apparently brought gay sons to Hooters to try to get them, and the Hooters waitresses thankfully saved these gay people and were like, don't worry about it.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It's this wonderful thing, and it was just, just go find it, Hooters Gay Men, and it's a delightful read, and thank God, and Hooters is on the... Recipients of bankruptcy, apparently. But thank God for Hooters Waitress. This is all I have to say in that regard. But I think you have to give it to the Severance season finale. I watched it here in Puerto Rico on Friday.
Pivot
Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Yeah. Amazing. I'm not going to give away too much, but boy... Is Ben Stiller one hell of a director? Did he direct this one?
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
He did. He did, I believe. Yes. And it was... He directed a lot of them this season, more than he was supposed to, he told me. But he... It is just... wow, was it a mindfuck in a way that was really good and it leaves open for a whole new season. That is really great. It was not going the way you thought it was going to go, but it sort of did.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
So it had a very satisfying and you didn't feel at a loss. And at the same time, It was a lot about innies and outies and the relationship you have with yourself and the struggles you have with yourself. There's so much to unpack and every single person in it, Milchak, the guy who plays Milchak, did this incredible, there's a marching band, there was a big fire.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
There was a goat lady, there's so much to it, every single character. had their moment, and every single character took advantage of their moment in a really profound and wonderful way. And I couldn't recommend it more. It was really funny, too. It was really funny and also heartbreaking and et cetera. And every character was wonderful. So I just have to say that was such a win.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Okay. She's an actor, too, but she's also wonderful. But go ahead. Go ahead.
Pivot
Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
You just waited for that. You don't want to talk about profound history.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Oh, my God. All right. I know. By the way, the story. Let me just tell you, Hooters waitresses rock.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Well, I'm sure she was lovely like all these people in this piece.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
No, I mean lovely in terms of the way that she handled these.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
But, and that's a, that's sort of a It's designed for rich people, I guess, that town or that country. It's so small. But it seems so icky.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Well, they weren't. They would just sidle up to him saying, don't worry, kid. You're fine the way you are.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It is a sweet story. It's a sweet story.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
All right, so fail is that they really aren't finding as much of this Doge thing. I think it's an absolute fail. They are not finding as much fraud, waste, and abuse. Oh, you think? And especially with Social Security. Like, they're just not finding it. Like, there's a great story in the New York Times, at the Wall Street Journal, and all of them, they're talking about how
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
They're just not finding it, especially in claims of massive problems. Reforming government is a critical thing in our age. We should always be reforming government and making it better for people to get their stuff, the stuff you pay for. I'm very cognizant.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Like right now, the fact that we're paying for innocent people to be sent to El Salvador, to this lunatic who runs that country, and I know he's liked there, but nonetheless seems like a lunatic, is heinous. It's just heinous. So I just feel like it's always important to understand how government can work better. But this is making an argument that government does work well.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And I think that's great. But at the same time, just like, stop it. Again, just like a lot of things, you're we really care about government reform, you're fucking ruining it for government reform. That's my feeling and I think we're going to have a problem with it because this will tarnish efforts like that for years to come. Scott, all yours. No Hooters jokes.
Pivot
Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher, and I'm in Puerto Rico.
Pivot
Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Agreed. Agreed. Of course, Trump is saying it's all fixed and he would know. Anyway, it's not. It's really real, I have to say. It's really fun to watch. I'd love to watch democracy like that. I like screamy town halls. I love screamy city hall meetings, too. Anyway, that's a great one. And they look fantastic and they sound fun. You're right. They sound fun, actually. We want to hear from you.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. And elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on On with Kara Swisher, I talked to Alvaro Bedoya and Rebecca Slaughter, the two Democratic commissioners Trump fired at the FTC last week for without cause. They didn't even mention it.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It's an illegal act what he did. But let's listen to a clip.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
It was a great interview. It's really interesting. I'm sure they'll get their jobs back. But at the same time, the fact that he tried it is typical of Trump at this point. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Yeah, I get it. I get it. I get it. I just, the Bitcoin ones were so...
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
unseemly here in in puerto rico i remember the stories i was always felt dirty right you know right because they just they're just terrible people that were you know avoiding taxes and and then a lot of it was but some anyway anyway it's a lovely place i recommend people going there just it is not a garbage island it's beautiful and people are lovely um and they're americans by the way but people always
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
go, oh, you're going to a foreign country. I'm like, no, Puerto Rico is American. And they should be the 51st state, and they should get representation, as should the District of Columbia, before we move into China and Greenland.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
No, I'm just saying it's an issue. I'd like to have my vote count. Scott, you get to have your vote count, but I don't.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
No, I'm a D.C. resident. We don't have, we're taxation without representation. We have a person in Congress, so does Puerto Rico, but we don't have, they don't, the votes don't count.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Yeah, I don't either. I don't know. I would like, we're one of the biggest, we have many, many, many, many, much more of a population.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I understand, but still, I would like to have my vote count. Anyway, first, speaking of politics, bipartisan senators Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin plan to reintroduce a bill to sunset Section 230, I guess. Okay. The bill would give Section 230 an expiration date of January 1st, 2027, with the goal of pressuring big tech to engage in negotiations for new regulations.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
President Trump has long been an advocate for repealing Section 230, although he hadn't been before. He's changed, like a lot of these politicians have. He's not alone in that. Graham has introduced repeal bills multiple times. This one, you know, we'll see if it happens. It's really a way to, it's just not the way to go here, but there seem to be no other ways to go.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
We'll see if there will be new regulation. There's also a danger that Trump administration takes control of our online speech, Ted Dirt's take, which I think is the smartest. Democratic senators team up with MAGA to hand Trump a censorship machine. It's really a problematic, it's like taking out your liver, I guess, or whatever you need.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Morgan, would you need your heart to fix a real problem of these companies not being subject to any kind of litigation or regulation? So it's a really difficult situation. It would really affect their businesses in ways that are really quite profound. I don't know. What do you feel? I would read Mike Masnick on the entire thing. That's how I would recommend.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Yep, I would agree. And again, I would recommend, there's a really good podcast that Mike Masnick has done. He's written a lot about this. Years ago, when they were doing this before, when they tried to do this again, I had him on and a bunch, and Jeff Kossoff and others who know a lot about it to explain why this is the, it's like, There's an expression throwing a hammer at a piano to make music.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Like, it just doesn't make any sense. And this is what he writes. How did the once obscure internet law become the target of bipartisan crusade? The answer reveals much about our current moral panic over social media and dangerous appeal of quick-fix solutions. It makes them default to fix this. What people don't realize is that Section 230 isn't really the root of their concerns.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Oh, my God. Did you see that scene? Oh, my God. I didn't. I've heard of it, though.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Removing or even reforming it won't fix the people on the internet. In fact, it will certainly make things worse. So I think it's really important to get yourself educated on this. This is not the solution. Again, you're right.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
They could have passed all of the different bills Senator Klobuchar and others had around privacy, around all kinds of things, around some liability that they refused to do. They refused to do decent law. And they have to use this as a cudgel. Like, it's ridiculous. They should be able, if they can be bipartisan, they should be bipartisan enough to pass a series of laws
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
that have teeth in them that have against these companies, privacy, algorithm, transparency, anti-trust rules.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Yeah. Sam Rockwell. Yeah. Okay. I was a little worried there, but I'm allowing it. I'm allowing it.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Why not have a regulation on privacy around a bipartisan... Right now. Right now. They could do it right now. And this is what they're going for. They're so stupid.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Boom. Done. Tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. This is really not the smart way to do it. Anyway, I urge you to learn about it because as it perhaps might have not... been correct in the first place. It almost was impossible to create these companies without it at the same time. So anyway, difficult times.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Speaking of someone that Meta has made a bestseller, Sarah Wynn Williams released Careless People, documenting her six years at the company earlier this month. She was there quite a bit ago. I think 2018 is when she left. Meta has recently successfully stopped Wynne Williams from doing interviews based on a non-disparagement agreement signed at her termination.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
Wynne Williams has filed an emergency motion to overturn the ruling, citing lack of proper notice and whistleblower protection. She apparently wasn't present when they made the ruling. At the time of the taping of the book, it's number three on Amazon's bestseller. I think this was the strategy of this publisher. They didn't inform the company before.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
There was a lot of quietness around the release. They didn't seem to fact-check. The ones I checked, the people I checked, they did not call. And they have, you know, the company is very upset about the book and has been trying to stop it and in the process has made it very popular. She did a bunch of short interviews. There was one or two interviews before, but then has not been able to do that.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
But it hasn't stopped it, I think. I don't know. I think it's a problematic book. I have read it. We can discuss it, Scott, if you want, because you haven't read it. But there's a lot of important stuff in this book. And at the same time, a lot of stuff that is not, what I say, fact-checked, is what I would say, and is questionable about her taking credit for certain things.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
I think some of the personal stuff should have been fact-checked. There's some stuff about Joel Kaplan. about sexual harassment. There's some stuff about Charles Sandberg wanting her to sleep in a bed in a plane, which I think, I'm sorry, I don't believe. I believe it happened. I just don't believe it the way Williams is telling it. Although only people there would know, I guess.
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Meta Tell-All, Elon's Daughter Speaks Out, Cybertruck Recall
And I think Facebook is reacting rather emotionally to this because of the personal stuff in it. But the stuff around China is really interesting. It's really interesting that their preparations to go into China, but then they didn't. And I don't think she was there when they decided not to. So she doesn't know why they didn't, but they didn't do it. But some of the stuff is really interesting.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I am so anal retentive. I have to. You don't understand. I have to wash everything.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
half-sibling online, I'd have a few nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened six separate times. She's funny.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I can't. I can't. I can't. I literally was up all last night because there's dust on everything. And I'm really, people don't realize this, but I'm highly anal retentive. And so everything has to go back the right way.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Interesting. It's interesting. I don't like him illegally raiding and wrecking government more than this. I think this is his modus operandi with all these women. This is what he does. He thinks he should spread his seed. This is what he thinks. This is one of his theories of existence.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Well, he must pay for them, I guess.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Please don't say that. Girls need their fathers too.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
What say we of the lesbians, then? My kids, I think, are very well-intested.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I can't speak if the glass isn't in the place.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
True? No. No. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. No.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
It's just not true. There's various and different people, just like straight couples. Some of the ladies are more manly, I guess, in some fashion.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Two parents, absolutely. Two loving parents, I think, are the critical part. And involvement of men, certainly. We've spent a lot of time making sure the boys did have that. Have my brother, my son is fixated on you, as you know. And we think that's important. We think that's really important. But I would say it's two loving parents, I think, are the critical, if possible.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
And that's unfortunately not possible for a lot of people. And if not, then there's community stuff like churches or Boy Scouts or, well, not Boy Scouts, it's gotten so pillory, but any of those kind of things where they can have a feeling of community is critically important.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I hate it though, moving. I don't like the whole, like all the things. It makes me want to be a Buddhist. I'm like, I would like to let go of all things.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Well, it's part of his brand, right? This kid's everywhere. I fuck everybody and leave babies in my wake. This is his thing. This is his weird fucking thing.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Yeah, that's true. Women just marry shitty men. So, the women I know. Anyway, don't be a shitty father, men. like Elon Musk, obviously. So obviously, yes. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's military purge in his latest hire. Support for Pivot comes from the NPR podcast, Tech Unheard.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
They dive into Jensen's journey, the future of AI, and how NVIDIA's unique culture continues to push the boundaries of technology. Tech Unheard makes you feel like you're in the room with some of tech's biggest leaders, and it's a new way to hear them inspire in a totally unscripted way. Tune into Tech Unheard from ARM and NPM, wherever you get your podcasts.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I'm like, what do I have this in multiple amounts? Like that kind of thing. And I just vowed I wouldn't move again, ever again. I'm just going to die. And I've decided I'm dying in this house. Like this is where it's happening.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Scott, we're back. Stocks fell sharply last Friday, with the Dow seeing its worst week since October and the S&P wiping out almost all of the gains since Trump took office. The downturn was fueled in part by a drop in consumer sentiment index, which fell to its lowest level in more than a year, with consumers concerned about higher inflation.
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
There are also worries about Trump's tariffs, as of the recording. Monday morning, the S&P 500 and NASDAQ were still down. There's also these government layoffs, which are going to happen. They're the biggest player in the country. Warren Buffett's in cash, has gone into cash, and he's not saying why. What do you make of the stock market situation?
Pivot
Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I don't know. I've got to have a theory of getting rid of all my stuff. I've got 25 plus years, essentially, to get rid of everything. So I have to have a theory of getting rid of things in some fashion.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Yeah. I just don't look. I just don't look.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
That's my don't look strategy. And then every now and then when it seems insane, I sell a little bit. It's like sort of gambling, but I'm not much of a gambler in any case. Also, President Trump announced on Sunday night that he's naming podcaster and former Fox News personality Dan Bongino as deputy FBI director. Bongino is also a former Secret Service agent and NYPD officer.
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The role of deputy director does not require Senate confirmation and typically goes to a senior FBI agent. In his post on True Social, Trump noted... But you know, he was willing and prepared to give up his podcast in order to serve. I have had backs and forth with him quite a bit when I wanted to interview him. He kept telling me how much bigger his podcast was than mine. It was very weird.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
But ultimately, he was going to do it. And then, of course, you know, wimped out as I expected.
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A goiter, when have you thought of the word goiter?
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That's a good word, goiter. I don't like a goiter. Wouldn't that suck to have a goiter and not be able to do anything about it? Anyway, sorry. Just thinking I lived in medieval times.
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No. Oh, actually, maybe I might, and then I'll be in charge of the military, and then I'll do the bad things that he doesn't want me to do and have a coup or something like that. This guy isn't qualified. He's not qualified. Like, who's a cop, okay? And who's a secret service agent? But this is just a ridiculous circus, these people, and it's dangerous.
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He's in a rage a lot. Don't go watch the podcast on video if you want to feel good about our nation's FBI. That's all I got to say. He's a lot. We had a really interesting back and forth, but he's a lot. He's a lot in a way that I don't think is particularly good for law enforcement.
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Anyway, he also, from hiring to firing, Trump fired the country's senior military officer, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General C.Q. Brown, late Friday night, Friday night purge. The move was part of a larger military purge with six Pentagon officials fired in total, including the chief of naval operations and top lawyers for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
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Obviously, they're getting themselves in place. The official line from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is that they're putting in place new leadership to focus on deterring fighting and winning wars, actually against the American people, probably. But in an appearance on Fox News on Sunday, Hegseth shared a little more about dismissing these lawyers. Let's listen.
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He's such an idiot. God, he sounds, what is roadblocks? This is, I'm quite concerned about this. They're putting, trying to put people in place. The person they put in place said he loved Trump, apparently wore a MAGA hat. But, you know, this seems regular.
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And just for people who don't know right now what we're on here, we just voted with Russia not to condemn Russia for the Ukraine invasion for the first time, which seems astonishing that we're doing that. It just happened in the UN. And we are on Russia's side in the Ukraine fight at this point or not condemning them for Russia. what they're doing. And this guy's in charge.
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And he, of course, didn't know, FYI, who started the war, Hegseth, on one of the TV shows. He's so dumb, but also dangerous.
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And blaming, this is... He called it complex when someone, even a Fox person said, you'd fair to say that Russia invaded Ukraine. He said, it's complex.
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Well, that's what they're hoping. That's what the German, the new German chancellor, or who's gonna be the new German chancellor.
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Yeah, well, the U.S. voted alongside North Korea, Belarus, and 14 other Moscow-friendly countries. So that was great. They're like, oh my God, he's like a, he's a useful idiot. I don't know what else to say. It's just astonishing. I mean, people, Ronald Reagan would be literally throttling him at this point, you know?
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Yeah. Yeah. It's still beautiful. It's still, you have nice things that are there, but I know what you mean. Right now, for some reason, every time I move, I have an existential crisis. I'm like, this couch will be here after I die. I did buy a couch. It was a nice couch. You'll come sit. Have you ever visited my house, do you think?
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What in the world are they thinking? I'd love to understand what he's actually thinking. You know what I mean? I don't know. Anyway, they're just clown after clown after clownish thing. And Marco Rubio is at the head of the parade. Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Amazon has gained creative control over James Bond. A big deal to Kara Swisher. And no one likes Mark Zuckerberg.
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Scott, we're back. Let's get to some more headlines. Amazon has gained creative control over the James Bond franchise. A surprise. A tech giant will form a joint venture with Barbara Broccoli, who inherited control of Bond, and her brother, Michael G. Wilson, who remain co-owners. But they seem to have given up creative control. Amazon, that was a big deal when Amazon...
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gained the significant ownership as part of its purchase of MGM in 2021. Bond movies have made over $6 billion at the domestic box office. They have to replace Bond this year, by the way. I don't know if you care or not, but I do. I think it'll be interesting. I think they've been very consistently good, the Bond movies, over the years. But I don't know who should play Bond from your perspective.
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Oh, really? Yeah. I think Idris Elba.
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I like the kitsch idea. That's not bad.
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Tom Hardy, okay. All right, all right. I'm going with Idris. Who do you like? Idris, I think he'd be really good. I know he's older. You're right, he's older. Maybe, who's the younger Idris? I don't know.
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He was spectacular. I love all the Bonds. I think he's been spectacular. I don't know. Sean Connery remains the Bond.
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No, it's not. I just, I watched them.
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I wanted to fuck Sean Connery, and that's not something I want to do. So I'm just saying.
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He was until he got silly. I love Bond movies. I don't know if he was one of my things, Bond movies. I own them all. I love them.
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All of them. There's not one. You know, different parts. Some of them are pretty bad. I think Goldfinger, for some reason, I love because, you know, Fort Knox, like, stupid idiot. Elon wants to go see the gold. What a fucking idiot he is. Anyway, someone who people don't like even more, speaking of which, Democrats and Republicans are aligned on one thing. Neither likes Zuckerberg.
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A Pew study of likability of the meta-CEO and Elon Musk found that 54% of U.S. adults don't like Musk and 67% don't like Zuckerberg, while Musk's results falls on party lines with 85% of Democrats having unfavorable views and 73% of Republicans feeling favorable, although I think that is falling.
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Mark Zuckerberg is a great uniter with both 60% of Republicans and 76% of Democrats hold unfavorable views. What is happening? What is happening?
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I think they all think there's Steve Jobs who did it successfully, but he did it with class and grace, right? I don't know. I think they all think that. Like Bezos too. He's like, I'm like, go home, go home, be with the kids, go away, like that kind of thing.
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You can do that. I have a TV in there. You can do whatever you want.
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The lights on, as they say. Just remember the lights on like Motel 6. As for you, Scott Galloway. Anyway, I moved my office into a new studio, which I built in my house. I moved the house. And guess who's coming to Washington to live?
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I know, but Mark should stop threading. He should stop showing up. He should stop pontificating. He's just bad at it.
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It's like you want to hear from the most annoying person you know.
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Alex Karp, yeah. He's an interesting fella.
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I just like, Mark, nobody likes you. They just don't. They've never have, not since the movie. And let me tell you, that tracks in real life, too, for people who don't know. Just like I could not get away fast enough from Mark Zuckerberg. All right. Although we like the chains, Mark. We do like the chains. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first or shall I?
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Well, the German election, I think, you know, even though Europe is going to have to pull its own, put its shoulder into it, the Conservative Party won, but the ADF did. This is a fail, I guess. What's happening in Germany is young people, they're voting for Europe. It's interesting because the left had a big surge.
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I'm going to read something from a friend of mine who's German who gave me some insight, was showing me sort of the election results by age. Young people really leaned into the left party 25% and 20% for the right party, which was interesting. So they're really going...
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The young people are going different directions, 18 to 24, versus the older people who stayed with the conservative party or the version of the Democrats. The Greens lost some ground. Obviously, the version of Democrats called the SPD lost ground. The CDU will now form a government, but they have to get together with others.
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And this is what my friend wrote, as expected, young voters voting extreme, highly influenced by social media, unclear how long it will take to build a government. Schultz, the chancellor, did the Biden by not stepping down in time. Big questions about the transatlantic relationship. Metz is an old fashioned transatlanticist, but with supporting ADF, we'll see a baseline.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Yes, indeed. That's right. We're moving her in a couple of weeks.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
It's great that 85 percent turnout, a very vivid democracy, but 20 percent voting for an anti-migrant pro-Russia party. It was worrisome. I thought that was... But she was saying social media leads the left and the right to support extremes. So I'm worried. Germany is a linchpin of Europe. And they're really, as the new possible chancellor said, are on their own in lots of ways.
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So they have to get together. My win is the main governor who stood up to Trump, who was threatening her. I appeared this week at the governor's forum. Jared Paulus had me in. to talk about education, which was interesting to the group. And I met some very nice governors. But Maine Governor Janet Mills told President Trump, we'll see you in court during this exchange around transgender athletes.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Exactly. We will be. So literally moving things around, including my mother. You think she'll appreciate it? I don't think so.
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He called her out specifically. And I think she's like, I'm going to run my state the way we have our rules. So He threatened defunding, et cetera. It just was kind of a gross thing, but I kind of thought that was badass of her. And then secondly, just very close for the win, people don't know, Roberta Flack just died. And I love Roberta Flack. I love Roberta Flack so much.
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And I think two songs, obviously the most famous for her is The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face. I don't remember when that was, Scott. And Killing Me Softly was his song. And that's what I think of you when I listen to that song.
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Yeah. It brought it down. Yeah.
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Run by a lesbian. Run by a lesbian.
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20, 20, a little bit over 20. Just where they thought. It didn't improve it or lessen it. It didn't increase it for sure.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I briefly considered moving her into your Soho place and that you wouldn't know she was there, like in the back.
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The Canadians are the good people.
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No, it's the best building ever. It's like the ghost building, the zombie building.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Yeah. Can I add something? Just today, before we're on, Apple said it will create 20,000 jobs and open a new manufacturing facility in Houston as part of a more than $500 billion investment in the United States. They're opening this Texas plant, assemble servers previously manufactured outside the U.S. This is according to the Washington Post. They're expanding data center capacity, et cetera.
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Now, just so you're aware, this is part of a thing that they announced in 2021 where it would spend $430 billion and add 20,000 jobs in the United States over five years. So it's an overlap with the latest announcement. I'm not really clear, but it feels a lot. He met with Trump last week, and this is obviously a version of that.
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I say hi to everybody. I say, come on over when Scott's here. Scott would love to have you over for cocktails.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Thank you. I love it. I love the whole thing. Speech. Sing it, sister. I like it. I like the whole thing. Anyway, I agree with Scott 100%. They're a bunch of wimps and Please read my paperback coming out soon, a burn book, where I add a chapter saying thus. What a bunch of, they have just, oh, they're such selfish pricks. Selfish pricks and boss dicks. That's what they are.
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Everything has come around to you, Scott Galloway. Dicks, dicks, dicks, dicks, as far as the eye can see. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot. Submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. And all you Dan Bongino listeners, come on over to Pivot and we'll serve you much better.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Okay. All right. I have enjoyed staying there. I'm going to ask you one more favor to stay there, but I'm thinking of buying a place in New York so I can be near or closer to you.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Anyway, now that he's whatever he's doing. Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, I talk with comedian Ronnie Chang for the latest episode of On with Kara Swisher. Let's listen. You don't want to be an edgelord, Ronnie?
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Yeah. Anyway, it was a great interview. He says hi, Scott. He loves you. Hi.
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He is. I'm having a lot more comics on because I just can't take any more shit.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
You know what? They're great guests. They're really smart. That was a really amazing insight into what's happening.
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Yeah, I know. It's true. It's true. Zip recruiter. Yeah. Yeah. I need to. Louie's graduating NYU. I'm going to need to stay there because I can't deal with the hotel.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Oh, okay. All right, get them all on.
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I love Reacher, of course. I love the original Tom Cruise movies, and I watch it on Amazon, absolutely.
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Oh, yeah, I haven't got to get into that. I know you love those guys.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Yeah. We'll have a big party. Or just show up.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Arm believes the future isn't about technology. It's about people and the possibilities technology can offer us. The future is built on Arm. You can discover more at arm.com slash discover.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
They do. They're like, oh, yeah.
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Best hotel in New York. And you know what? The only good thing about moving is I was blessfully not paying attention to news this weekend, which was horrible. Let me just say there was so much bad news that it was lovely not to be paying attention to it in any way when you're moving boxes. So we've got a lot to get to today, including Elon's chainsaw moment. You had some very funny moments.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Threads about that, Scott Galloway. And Trump installing another loyalist at the FBI. In fact, it just, it goes on anyway. And also this thing he did this week, Elon pulling yet another page out of his Twitter playbook, ordering federal employees, millions and millions of them, to summarize their accomplishments for the week or face consequences.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Federal workers received emails over the weekend with a subject line, what did you do last week? Elon warned on X that a failure to respond would be taken as a sign of resignation. He has no right to do so, by the way.
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Several agency heads are pushing back on the directive, including FBI Director Kash Patel, I can't believe I'm saying those words, who told employees to pause on responding to the email. I'm not sure it's a pushback or not, but I'm going to read five accomplishment lists that are making the rounds on social media because some of them are very funny.
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This one from a Threads user gives us a look at Elon's possible list. One, took too much ketamine. Two, danced on stage with a chainsaw. Three, ignored my new baby mama. Four, laughed at my own bad joke. Five, neglected all of my children except the one I use as a human shield. He also neglected him if you saw pictures he took. He walked ahead of a four-year-old and sort of lost him for a second.
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We'll get to the chainsaw and baby mama stuff in a bit. But this one from Shannon on Threads cuts to the chase. Dear Elon, five things I did last week. One to five, your mom. Amy Klobuchar posted her five weekly accomplishments, which included stood with Ukraine instead of Russia. The other senator from Minnesota, they're very sassy in Minnesota.
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No, but I like the dick one. But go ahead.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I am going to push back a little bit. I do think people have an experience that I've noticed a lot of sympathy for these people. If you notice these meetings that Republicans are going to and there's widespread reporting on this, people are like, you're a fucking dick. Like, why does he have to?
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He is getting very bad reviews in the way he's doing this because everyone works in the office, you know, from the TV show, right? Works in that place. And I don't think people enjoy the schadenfreude at all. I don't think they know it could come for them. They don't like when they have it.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
I think it has actually a good point to point out the stupidity of it and the incompetence more than anything else. Like another dick move, dick boss move is a very good way to put it. The other thing is to point out the inaccuracy of everything. Another word for incompetence, like we say 55 billion, actually zero. I think those are very good things.
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Elon's Ultimatum, Trump's Military Purge, and Amazon's 007 Deal
These people aren't even effective and they're damaging people. You can't go to your public park anymore. You can't do this. You can't do that. I think those are effective. I think here's how government does work for you. And that sort of gets people in the mode of liking government. Oh, wait, I did like that. I did like getting my check. I did like the parks working.
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Scott, I'm exhausted. And not just by Elon Musk.
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I did like going to Yosemite or whatever it happens to be. Just I think you respond to people. I did like when I could buy eggs at the store, all those things. And I think adding on to the it's not just the stuff around his car is every single agency. He has targeted our agencies the most, our agencies that have been investigating him. And that's an issue.
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And I think he's got a—his numbers in the polls are very bad. I would say very, very bad. And they may improve, but I don't quite know how they will. And they're trying really hard. The Trump people are trying, but it's not working particularly well. They think he's—because he keeps doing these dick moves, essentially—
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I mean, for example, his appearance at CPAC, Elon wore his black MAGA hat, sunglasses, and at one point wielded a chainsaw on stage that was given to him by Argentina's President Malay. His onstage interview was full of crazy stuff. Let's just listen to a clip.
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I moved my house. I was in an apartment. I'm sitting here in the empty apartment right now. And moving sucks, Scott Galloway.
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No, he's crazy. That was, and they were all, he was laughing at his own jokes and they're like, and that guy who interviewed him was such a suck up, was like, it was so awkward. Scott, as you said on Threads, this is like when your ketamine dealer finally gets back from Cabo.
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I know. I know. So what did you everyone talks about him being allegedly on drugs. That was some performance. He was on something.
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I don't know what it brings down. I think him not having good polling. He's in political spectrum thing now. It matters. Polling matters to these people. And if you're getting pushback, if you're a congressperson in like Bemidji.
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Oh, I don't think people were offended. I think they were making great jokes. I mean, I don't know. You had a good joke. People aren't offended by him as much as, like, what a fucking tool. Like, mocking.
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Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Then I'll ignore Steve Bannon channeling his nemesis Elon doing the Nazi salute.
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There's no such thing. There's no such thing. It's a Nazi salute. Stop it. Stop it. I've deeply studied the Roman salute. There's no such thing. It's the Nazi salute. Anyway, he's facing legal claims from right-wing influencer Ashley St. Clair. who were paternity in custody of their alleged child. St. Clair revealed her child's existence on X a few weeks ago. I actually knew about it.
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I think I told you about it. And said Elon was the father. Elon has yet to publicly acknowledge his paternity, but court documents say he has done so in various written correspondences. Another kid, his daughter Vivian posted on threads, if I had a nickel for every time that I found out I had a new sibling,
Pivot
Prof G Markets: The Art of Spending Money
And today we have an episode of Prof G Markets for you all.
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Prof G Markets: The Art of Spending Money
No, here's the situation. We're on vacation. We're on vacation and we had to put something in there. In this episode, Scott breaks down the best and worst purchases he's ever made. That should be a good one. Scott, give us a one-sentence summary of this episode. I mean one sentence, please.
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Prof G Markets: The Art of Spending Money
All right. Well, this should be interesting. It actually is a fantastic episode and a fantastic podcast. Enjoy.
Pivot
Prof G Markets: The Art of Spending Money
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
Yes, that is also. But that's in the midst of the case. That hasn't. But go ahead. Yeah.
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Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
Yeah, well, we'll see. They are definitely, it looks like Tumper isn't going to save him a lifeline, but we'll see. He might do that if he gets enough money. Just for people who don't know, the production of Tesla's Model Y has been delayed. This company has one mess after the next recently.
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Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
The Model Y, a more affordable version of Tesla's electric SUV, was promised in the first half of this year as a potential way to boost sales. Production plans will be pushed back a few more months, though Tesla still plans to reduce them, maybe. They think it's because he wants to double down on robo-taxis and the Optimus Prime. He thinks that's where the future is, not in these cars.
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Obviously, people are running circles around them, including Japan and China and others. And legally, it's settled a racial discrimination lawsuit after a Black employee alleged harassment, gender-based insults, and racial slurs on bathroom walls, which are pretty heinous.
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Tesla's also facing a proposed class action suit claiming, this one is amazing, too, claiming it speeds up odometers so vehicles fall out of warranty faster. What a... Oh, my God. It's just all over the place. So his car company's given a lot of yips. We're taping this on Monday. Tesla reports earnings on Tuesday afternoon. Any predictions?
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Like, it looks like he's not interested in making cars anymore or he's making other things. He wants to shift Tesla. And I think you're going to merge XAI X and this together in a big. And Tesla? Yeah. And make it an AI company. Make it an AI company.
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I think he said it to me on stage at some point.
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He's referring, Scott's referring to the second signal gate, or probably the 10th, probably the 20th. Pete Hegseth was including his wife, his personal lawyer, friends in attacks on, I think it's Yemen, right? Was it Yemen?
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They did. That was a big thing, is fucking with the odometer.
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Because he hid X's shitty business within the- That's right. By the way, they don't have that many customers. What is their revenues? OpenAI is making $5 billion, $6 billion at least, and actually growing. It'll just have this halo, so he's moving it to a new meme stock, just a better meme stock because the Tesla meme stock isn't going so well. That meme is over.
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Then he's getting all kinds of contracts. He might be in charge of Golden Dome, all this other stuff. He's got better fish to fry, better women to impregnate, I think, here. But anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the Supreme Court's late night rebuke to Trump. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet.
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What a, Jesus, this guy's got to lay off the whiskey.
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And then, just to add to this, the Pope died, J.D. Vance visited him yesterday, and the Pope took his time to insult J.D. Vance in his Easter, essentially what J.D. Vance represented in his Easter homily, and then died soon after. But one of the third thing that just come in is Kristi Noem got her bag snatched in D.C.
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Scott, we're back. The Trump administration has a busy few days. Let's dig in for a few. The Supreme Court handed down a rare overnight order on Saturday blocking Trump from deporting a group of Venezuelan immigrants in Texas. The court's order bars the government for now from using the Alien Enemies Act, a wartime law from 1798. This was a 7-2 ruling with Thomas and Alito in the minority.
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Alito wrote in his dissent, the court's decision was to intervene was not necessary or appropriate. The Trump administration quickly asked the Supreme Court to roll back the decision, saying the order was premature as lower courts had not properly weighed in. It's none of his business what they're going to do. Actually, they're working.
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This guy is putting them to work in terms of making decisions. They might try to keep Trump in check, or at least they're at least moving to do so even before things like that. Also, the Trump administration appears to be preparing for a drastic overhaul of the State Department, a plan described by one U.S. diplomat as bonkers crazy pants, and that's a technical term.
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A draft, that's an ambassadorial term, bonkers crazy pants. That's also the name of Scott's and my band. A draft of an executive order reveals plans to shut down embassies across Africa and eliminate State Department offices focusing on climate change, refugee and human rights. So the entire continent of Africa and anything nice for people.
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The draft also calls for ending a foreign service exam, laying out new hiring criteria in line with the president's foreign policy vision, which means you have to agree with him. Secretary of State Marco Rubio responded to the New York Times report on the overhaul on X writing, this is fake news. Oh, Rubio, little Marco.
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If these plans do come to fruition, we'll see how it affects our standing abroad. And lastly, and then you can comment on all these things, Scott, the White House is reporting looking into new policies that will incentivize more Americans to get married and have kids, according to the New York Times.
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Some proposals for those policies include a $5,000 cash bonus given to every American mother after delivery. I wish I got that. Government funded programs educating women on their menstrual cycles to better understand when they conceive. I wouldn't be against it except it feels very controlling. Giving the National Medal of Motherhood to moms with six or more kids. I'm almost there.
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As we discussed, this is a cause that's near and dear to the hearts of Elon Musk, JD Vance, Conservative Heritage Foundation for his part. Trump recently coined himself the fertilization president. He's also pitching for the idea of baby bonuses for a while. Let's listen to what he said at CPAC in 2023.
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and it carried $3,000 in cash she had in it, which she accused the guy that she sent to the El Salvadoran prison of being in MS-13 for holding $1,500 in cash. Like, what was she doing with cash? Like, anyway, the stories, these people are just, I feel like we're in a simulation, Scott.
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He's so gross. He's so incredibly gross. Anyway, I'd like your thoughts. Let's start with the first, which is this Supreme Court situation briefly. Go ahead.
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Joe Rogan just said this yesterday, but go ahead. Who did? Joe Rogan.
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He likes due process. Yes, he did. He said it's better to have 100 people that are guilty get off if one innocent person gets convicted.
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She is skinny, Max. She is. Anyway, she lost her money. Sorry, Christy. You shouldn't be carrying that much cash.
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Good daycare. If you really want to have kids, this is very similar to the abortion thing. If you really want people not to have as many abortions, make it so it's easy to have children, perhaps, and maybe people would make different decisions. It's the same. They never want to solve, and they also don't like the kids after they're born, right?
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They don't help any of those kids that get born in problematic homes and everything else. So they don't, all they want is, and you can see it, his giveaway was, man, you're going to get to fuck. I think that's really what he was saying. He was saying that. I don't think it. So this idea of baby bonuses is fine. That seems fine. The idea of IVF being inexpensive, great.
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No. Oh, I will. Okay. What did you do this weekend?
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It's all like individual gain, but it's not followed by anything that really matters to people who have kids, which is daycare or childcare, which is important at every income level, by the way. Even if you can afford it, it's difficult. Same thing with elder care, by the way, on the other side, also hard. But they don't want to do any of this thing.
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They just want like men to like have 14 babies, Elon, but what do you care if you're a shitty father, right? None of that matters. So I don't, you know, it just for people to realize these expanded child tax credit would be better or a baby bonus would require an act of Congress. by the way. But like expand child tax credit, that's a great idea too. That's right.
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But just the other things matter much, much more. And Scott is 100% right. If you don't want to have kids, you should not be like, you kind of, remember when people were giving money to people, giving people their college for giving the loans? Why does people who have babies get it and people that don't, don't get it? There's that moment, right? Like, why do they get money?
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It's not. It's not. It's not boring.
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Because we want them to have babies? That's kind of sick.
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You know what would have more babies, J.D. Vance, in case you're interested? And by the way, I have more children than you. Again, let me stress that, is $25. Hello? Like, that would be a baby boom. Housing would cause a baby. If you really want to do it, we should run the fucking government, Scott Gallows.
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We know how to get people to fuck. Scott and Kara know how to get people to fuck.
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Yes, I agree. Can I ask you a question? Of course. So were you the one that was, you know, you said after 30 years, they say, which one liked one more? Your wife liked you less than you liked her, correct, at the beginning? I'm just guessing. Is that right?
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You've told me the story, but go ahead.
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But I'm saying she liked you less than you liked her.
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Well, there you go. You worked on it. Well, that's good. You know, with Amanda and I, it was equal. I have to say it was equal. Although I did say to her, I can't believe she's actually agreed to marry me. I said, I'm beachfront proper. I was single for a very short amount of time. I haven't been single since I've been in the city.
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on a blind date, we were fixed up on a blind date, but I literally said to her something very soon after we started seeing each other, it was very equal, I have to say, was that I was beachfront property and she better grab it. Do you like that?
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I know, is that the most obnoxious thing ever?
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I'm beachfront property, you better grab it now. It's going fast, going fast.
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You're lucky to have me. Can I have a very brief thing on this bonkers crazy pants, getting rid of our African embassies across Africa and also cutting all the things that make us Americans, which are refugee help, human rights, climate change, et cetera. Any thoughts?
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Also, across Africa, we just decided to give Africa over to China.
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Yeah, I agree. It's an astonishing thing. We're just giving up. Literally, I know it sounds dumb. Do you remember like sort of the image I have of youth is, you know, Hershey bars by GIs and stuff like that. Like all this stuff we did. It sounds like it's such a trope, but it's so like... We've not always been the good guys, but we're the good guys.
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And now the Chinese are going to be the good guys. And they are not the good guys, by the way. It's just grotesque. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, China's latest salvo in the trade war and Netflix.
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Scott, we're back. China is warning countries not to make any trade deals with the U.S. at China's expense and is threatening retaliation against countries that do. They're doing the carrot and stick situation. China said it was responding to the foreign media reports that the Trump administration was trying to pressure other countries as a negotiating tactic.
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Harming the interests of others for one's own selfish and short-sighted gains is like negotiating with a tiger for its skin. That's an interesting metaphor. The Chinese Ministry of Commerce said in a statement that They went on to say, in the end, it will only lead to a lose-lose situation. Why do the Chinese seem so reasonable at this moment? What does it make of the strategy?
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I mean, obviously, they're going to have to threaten too, because we're threatening, presumably.
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I'm trying to wait to see where this is going.
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Yeah, and they still don't want to turn their back on us, and they don't have to. Anyway, amid all the economic turmoil and confusion, one company that is weathering the storm is fine, and people are worried about this, Netflix. The company reported in its Q1 earnings last week beating revenue and earnings targets.
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In a letter to shareholders, Netflix said their revenue and profit growth outlook remained solid. It's not making any changes to its forecast for the year. Look, this is the one company that stays going, even despite the volatility, because it requires... I would imagine maybe they make a lot of films elsewhere, but a lot of their stuff is sort of tariff-protected in a weird way, correct?
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Yeah, they really were smart about that. They also brought shows from there, either remade them or used them from there. They were very good about the globalization. Let me say, let me give kudos to Reed Hastings, who has stepped down as executive. He was executive chairman. He was very quite involved to chairman of the board.
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I met Reed when he was selling those DVDs, when he was moving those DVDs. very early in Netflix's history. And there had been a series of companies like this, if you recall, that were trying to do this, what he was doing. I did a very famous interview with him, I think it was 2007, maybe, with him, the head of Hulu at the time, Jason Kailar, and Chad Hurley, who was the head of YouTube.
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And we were... We were put down in a basement, and I always thought that these three, especially Reed Hastings, really had a vision for the future. But he really, even though he's dropping his status, he's the pivotal person who made a lot of these decisions.
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And he has smartly followed with executives that he has cycled out some that haven't worked, even though if they did well for a while, I have to say he really has to go down as one of the greatest.
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That's why they should spin it off. By the way, YouTube happens to be bigger, by the way.
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Anyway, you're right. And who would be the CEO of that? I mean, they would try to get Sarandos, obviously, right? They try to grab him, but- Of YouTube? Yeah.
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I'm just wondering if they would go, but that would be great. He has. And before that, another person who I had great regard for, Susan Wojcicki, who died, also did a great job there while she was running it. And she was one of the very earliest, in fact, one of the earliest Google executives. They started Google in her garage. So yeah, you're right. YouTube versus Netflix is the story.
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It's really the story. Anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you go first this week?
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Oh, my God. Music is so powerful that way. It is. But in any case, do you want to ask me what I did this weekend?
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Does anything else remind you of that? Like Saul was wearing a shirt that Louie used to wear this weekend and that gave me the chills in a good way.
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You do. I cry at the drop of a hat. You really do. I'm scared to watch certain movies with you.
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All right, your win? Your fail. Excuse me, your fail?
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We had Easter. We did the Easter show. Oh, yeah.
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He's risen. Christ has died. Christ was born. Christ has died.
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I'm Catholic. I'm actually Catholic, if you can believe it. You know what I'm excited for? Honestly, Conclave. Conclave. Like that movie. Did you see Conclave?
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What? It's a movie. It was up for Oscars. It's with Ralph Fiennes. They're going to have a conclave. It's when the cardinals get together and they all vote and stuff. There's some interesting prospects for a new pope, including a very young one.
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We haven't. One person has decided.
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It is incredible what they're doing here, the destruction around, not just there, but in any age. Okay, mine are. I have so many wins today. One, I recommend you reading Larry David's My Dinner with Adolf, which is sort of a tech. It's a very funny thing of him having dinner with Adolf Hitler and making fun of Bill Maher. It's very, very, very funny. Bill Maher needs to step down on defending it.
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Nobody thinks you shouldn't have had dinner with them, Bill. You're moving into Gayle King territory here in defensiveness. But it's really funny, Larry David's little essay in The New York Times, and I love Larry David so much. My other win, more seriously, is Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski, one of the few Republicans criticizing Trump.
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She admitted last week she was afraid and fears retaliation, but she's doubling down and being sort of a leader in that way. And she has won. She won despite an attack by Trump in the last election. So she's safer than most people at this moment in time. But good for her for doing that. And I think it's infectious, just like Scott was just talking about at universities.
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When Harvard did it, then MIT did it, then others did it. Now Columbia looks like it might be finding its spine at some point. So I really admire her for doing that. Also, just for a little thing, this is a picture, speaking of medical students, this is a picture my mom found of my dad. It fell out of a drawer of hers this week, and this is me as a kid.
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My mom's pregnant with my brother, but there's our little family. being very fecund Donald Trump, but we did it because my dad was a poor guy, like you said, and he got a break. He went to the Navy, paid for medical school, built his family, was able to lift himself up from not poverty in West Virginia, but not means in order to go to West Virginia and to go to school there and stuff. That's nice.
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And then my fail is this continued, it's sort of coming together. Wired has a piece, something I have talked about on this podcast, the scale at which Doge is seeking to interconnect data, including sensitive biometric data, is unprecedented, raising alarms with experts who fear it may lead to the disastrous privacy violations for citizens. and immigrants alike.
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I've always said their game was uniting the data. I heard this weekend, I'm not gonna say who it was, by someone who's considering leaving the United States, European countries are offering our greatest technologists, speaking of what you're talking about, Scott, it dovetails perfectly. Countries are trying to get our technologists to go there by giving them visas so they're safe.
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And a lot of people who I never thought would consider it are considering it because they feel retaliation. You know, the executive order against Chris Krebs has been chilling to a lot of people I know who've been working on really important things.
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Oh my God. That's good. Oh my God. I had so many beautiful, my grandmother used to make Easter foods. He has risen. He has risen. She went to mass every day. She would be very interested in who the new Pope is. Anyway, we'll see who the new Pope is. He's, he was a good Pope. He was a good Pope.
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And the whole point of Doge was to unite this data, as I've said, to create an uber data situation, which has never been united, to create an ability to cross-reference things that have never been cross-referenced, and for good reason. It's not for efficiency. They don't do it. It's because we're scared of creating a surveillance state the way they have in China.
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And so the fact that it's a reverse brain drain going on really dovetails on what Scott was talking about, is we are rejecting the finest from elsewhere, but our own people will be leaving our country to develop in other countries. And that is the biggest tragedy of this. At the same time, the government is creating an Uber database. I have said this over and over again.
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I know you said Elon's leaving, but the legacy of what he's doing here is incredibly dangerous for our freedom as far as I'm concerned. So I think we should pay a lot of attention to these databases being joined in a way that you'll be searchable and findable. And there will be so many mistakes in the data that it's terrifying.
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A lot of people considered dead that aren't dead have to prove they're not dead now. People that are getting arrested that are American citizens now, we shouldn't be arresting these immigrants without due process. But now it's moving because of mistakes and everything else. And also, it will not be mistakes at some point.
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So we should be very wary about what Doge is doing in that regard and pay attention, even if Elon's been out of the news a little bit recently because of so many other ridiculous situations. So I just please pay attention to that. Wired has a great story on that this week. And so that is my fails. We don't pay attention. They will have all our information and then do terrible things to us.
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It'll be used against immigrants first, but it's always, you know, it's always for more. And by the way, I don't want Democrats having this power either. FYI, I don't want any of them having this power. You can have your opinion about whatever you thought about the various things of leaking information, but the government should never have this much power and information about people in one place.
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It will always be abused, as has been shown throughout history. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, I talked with Melinda French-Gates and on with Kara Swisher. Let's listen.
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It's just what you were saying, Scott. Same thing. You and Melinda Gates are on the same wavelength. Also, I'll be interviewing Lisa Su, the CEO of AMD, speaking of badass women, live on stage at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center in Washington, D.C. this coming Monday, April 28th, a week from now.
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If you want to hear a smart conversation about semiconductor chips, industrial policy, and the future of AI, Google Kara Swisher and Lisa Su, S-U-S-U. To RSVP, tickets are free. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
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It's almost like they're gay. It's very gay.
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Conclave. Conclave. You have to watch that movie. Do yourself a favor and watch it with your wife. It's a great movie. It has Isabella Rossellini in it. She's a nun. She's a nun. She's fantastic. She was up for an Oscar, I think. Anyway, word of advice to the next pope, stay away from J.D. Vance. Anyway, we have a lot to get to today, including the Supreme Court handing Trump a late-night loss.
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Netflix is staying strong and market chaos. Yet another Tesla setback. This company is really done for, I feel like. Signalgate, too, has dropped, as we just referenced. Defense Secretary Pete Hegg says shared attack plans for strikes in Yemen in another group signal chat, including his wife, brother, and personal lawyer.
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Hegg said he's blaming disgruntled former employees for leaking the information about the use of his chat. They are, in fact— Let me tell you, these employees aren't being quiet. One of them wrote a piece for Politico saying how much Pete Hegseth sucks. In the group, there were around a dozen people from Hegseth's personal and professional circles and was named Defense Team Huddle.
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Hegseth created the Signal Group himself and conducted the chat from his program. Private phone. It just gets worse and worse. The details shared were the same as Jeffrey Goldberg. It looks like he cut and pasted. And who among us has not cut and pasted war plan details in all our group chats? I mean, will he go? Because now his people are after him.
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His little, you know, his little stormtroopers are after him now. So do you think he's finished or not? Or will Trump not care?
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Yeah, I mean, they're explicit. One of them, who is a spokesperson, John, I think it's Ouillat or something like that, he wrote a whole piece saying, you know, still saying he loves Donald Trump, blah, blah, blah, but Pete Higgs has to go. Essentially, that's what this piece said, which was explicit. You don't often just see an explicit one.
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Now, four people in this group chat dropped a dime on him. And I can tell two of them, the two or three who were just fired by him for things he lied about. These people didn't do what he said they did. So he turned around and fucked them, and then they're like, you're not fucking us, we're fucking you.
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And then the guy in his piece said, more to come, which is probably around his drinking or whatever. But it sounds like a fucking disaster there. I don't know how Trump can save this. He's got to dump him. I think there's no question he has to dump him. But it's Trump. So you never I mean, any other president? Absolutely. He'd be gone by yesterday.
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Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
But, you know, he's maybe he's thinking the pope will give him cover or the pope's death will give him cover. I don't know. I just think he's he's done. He's done.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
Yeah. Trump has a different behavior system.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
We know how to get people to fuck. Scott and Kara know how to get people to fuck. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, RIP Pope Francis, who died doing what he loved best, which was calling J.D. Vance an asshole.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
is a private phone who knows where he was. Like, come on. Are you kidding?
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
His brother is in the Defense Department. Another friend of his, a personal lawyer, was on this thing. Like, I wouldn't put my... Oh, God, this whole thing is just the... It seems like there's a deeper story here because they were signaling it, this one person. And to use your name in public to do it, this guy is either kamikaze or knows something. Like, this is going to get worse. So...
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
They're going to find an elegant way to get him out because Trump apparently likes the way he looks. He is a handsome man. Very handsome. In a kind of a cheesy, unctuous way. No, I think he's very handsome. He's a handsome man. I think Trump likes his look and feel, but they're going to put someone else who's more competent in there.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
He should go back to Fox News. That'd be great. He should go back. That's where he belongs. So speaking of which, Google and the Justice Department, speaking of people in trouble, are headed to court as we tape Monday to argue on how to remedy the company's online search monopoly. The outcome could result in Google being forced to sell off Chrome and share more data with competitors.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
Witnesses from Microsoft, Mozilla, Perplexity, and Open Air are set to take the stand. Closing arguments will be on May 30th, a decision coming by August. And for once, I would agree with Bill Barr, the former Attorney General, who's just a sack of shit, really.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
In an op-ed he wrote in the Wall Street Journal, all the solicitude we express for free markets is hollow talk without a willingness to confront bad actors that use illegal practices to squelch rivals and establish monopoly power. Well done, Bill Barr. Nobody says you're stupid. But anyway, what do you think is going to happen here? Because they also lost the advertising case, too, just last week.
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Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
So this is the first case. So they're in the remedy section of it.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
No, I think it has to be a remedy. I think it has to be a spinoff.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
They don't seem to want to spin any of them. Not Mark Zuckerberg, not Amazon, not any of them.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
By the way— We're mixing— We're mixing— We're mixing jokes. Scandals here. We're mixing not scandals. I'm serious.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
So do you imagine they would offer this? I don't think they will. I don't think it's just because of money. I think they just don't. They're hoping to play the long game here and just delay and delay and obfuscate and delay. When, in fact, they should have done it. So should Mark. They should spin off YouTube. It would be a very successful company. They need to spin this thing off.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
They need to just take their lumps and do it because they clearly use data and other advantages here to dominate the market. And again, if Bill Barr and Kara Swisher are in agreement, it is a real moment in time, I think. And real Republicans don't like this stuff, right? The question is, is Trump going to throw them some sort of lifeline here?
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
Although I'm not quite sure what he can do because in the advertising case in Virginia, there are state's attorneys general. But the White House looks like it's continuing with Pam Bondi. And I'm saying the White House and Pam Bondi because there is no independence between the Justice Department and the White House anymore. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
Give me one quick prediction.
Pivot
Signalgate Sequel, Trump's Baby Boom Plans, and Netflix Earnings
WhatsApp is over at Facebook.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
He does look good. I don't really care. It's supposed to be a great movie. He does look good. All right. Speaking of something that's not doing so well, Moody's has officially downgraded the U.S. credit rating. You wrote me right away about this.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Stripping the country of its last AAA rating of the three major agencies, Moody's blamed the downgrade on successive administrations and Congress failing to reverse the trend of large annual fiscal deficits and growing interest costs. The credit downgrade comes as Republicans try to pass Trump's big, beautiful bill. I wish you would not call it that.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Well, someone was blibbity blabbity with the New York Times or someone because all this news got out. So they moved the story forward. I was supposed to have a picture taken in my studio here. And I said, oh, we were doing it at Scott's because that's where I was last week. And so it turned out well, it meshed with the headline.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
A sweeping tax and spending package estimated to increase the deficit by about 4%. trillion. The bill cleared the House Budget Committee late Sunday night after initially getting blocked by some GOP deficit hawks. They never hold on, these hawks. It sucks.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
In terms of the market reaction as those recording stocks are down and the 30-year Treasury yield just hit its highest level in a year and a half, you texted me. This is big when the Moody's news broke. Explain to people why this downgrade is more than a symbolic move. Scott Besant was all over the TVs on the weekend calling it, dismissed Moody's, calling it a lagging indicator on Meet the Press.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
He also said it's no big deal that consumers have to pay tariff money. He admitted they will have to, and it won't be China that's paying. And by the way, there's a new acronym for people ditching American investments, which you've talked about a lot, ABUSA, anywhere but the USA. So talk a little bit about this, because you do not respond to a lot of stuff when we text you or I text you.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Along with the tariffs, which Besson was admitting finally.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Climbing, future climbing.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Right. Or do it, pay it forward again, which is what, you know, what happens. And at some point it does spin out of control. The fact that when people understand Donald Trump is the one that has increased the deficit more than any other president in the history of the presidency.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Why don't these GOP deficit hawks ever stick? I mean, seriously, they never stick. I'm like waiting. Chip Roy, get yourself a fucking backbone. You say it out loud and you say, I'm not going to do this. And then every time you get Mike Johnson, I don't know what he's doing to you, but it's like you're the only people that can stop this and you won't. So really what you're saying is crap.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
It's economically stupid. If you appeal to the degree, you're going to have a sick, fat, struggling, angry population under you who can't earn and have no economic opportunities. You know where that's going to go. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump gets pissy with Walmart and Apple. Support for Pivot comes from Delete Me.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I like your quote, though. I like they call this a screwball comedy. I like that. That was nice. You're feral. Apparently, you're feral.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
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Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
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Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com slash pivot code pivot.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I know. But it's true, though. It's accurate. Feral? Feral. You're like, ah. I'm sort of calm, and I'm like, ah.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, yeah. I did like your quote about making me a billionaire. I really appreciate that. That was an interesting insight of our copacetic relationship. You don't like that I text you at all times? I had no idea.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Scott, we're back. President Trump spent the weekend bullying Walmart after the company's CEO said some of the prices could rise within weeks because of the tariffs, obviously. In a post on True Social, Trump told Walmart to eat the tariffs and warned, I'll be watching and so will your customers.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Scott Beston said that he's spoken with Walmart's CEO and that the company will absorb some of the tariffs and some may get passed on to consumers. About one-third of Walmart's products come from outside the U.S., with a large share coming from China and Mexico. And it's not just Walmart. Trump's taking aim at Apple, too.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
He says that he had a little problem with CEO Tim Cook after hearing the company plans to ramp up iPhone production in India. Apple's trying to cut its reliance on China and aiming to make most of the iPhones sold in the U.S. at factories in India by the end of 2026. Apple announced that $500 billion investment in the U.S. back in February, but apparently that's not enough for Trump.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Let's listen to Trump recount his conversation with Tim Cook.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
So two things, very meddlesome with the companies in terms of how they should price it and putting reality. Tariffs cost money and they're going to pass them on to consumers. What is this I'll be watching strategy and telling people where to build and thoughts?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, most of the time it's fine.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah. Well, you said there's a statistic. We need to spend $30 billion over three years to move just 10% of its supply chain to the U.S., according to one estimate. And you had noted that the tariff was going to help India. It's not going to happen. It's just simply not going to happen. But talk more about this. I'll be watching. At some point, do they just ignore him or what?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Also Walmart. I'd love you to hear about Walmart.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I do sometimes text you directly.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, I'd even be like, mm-mm.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's so untrue. Anyway, thank you. It was a very nice article. And the photographer was amazing. Her last assignment, I think, was doing the West Village Girls for New York Magazine. And then she did that beautiful Bill Burr picture. She's known for her blue framing.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, from China, by China and Mexico.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Correct. And it'll- He is living in a different era.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
He is. And he's living in an era that doesn't exist anymore. Anyway, we have to move on. It's just ridiculous. He shouldn't be meddling, putting his fat fingers, fat shorts fingers in people's corporate decision-making. Meta is delaying the release of its Behemoth, its largest Lama 4 AI model. Behemoth was originally scheduled to be released in April, but the company is now aiming for fall.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
You know, this is something that seemed expected, that these AI models would run into fall. problems as they move forward. Another problem Meta is facing, though, is fraud. According to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, Meta is the leader in the pack when it comes to internet scams. The tech giant claimed nearly half of all reported scams on Zelle between 2023 and 2024.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Regulators in the UK and Australia found that 70% of the new advertisers on the platform are promoting scams or low-quality products. Of course, they'll take their business. However, employees have reported a reluctance to limit advertisers reporting allowing up to 32 automated strikes for financial fraud before banning accounts. I mean, seriously, seriously.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
And meanwhile, over at places like Microsoft, they're laying off 3% of its staff, over 40% of layoffs were in engineering. The cuts come after Satya Nadella announced up to 30% of the company's code is now written by AI.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
He himself is now listening to podcasts by AI, and they synopsize them so he doesn't have to listen to the whole thing, which was a weird little fact that was in one of the stories. So what's going on here? Let's talk first about the difficulties that AI is running into and then the difficulties that tech companies are running into.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I love gray animals.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, they want more advertisers. You remember when Amazon was doing books of mine that weren't books of mine, it's the same thing. But these companies don't want to fix this stuff, otherwise they would clean it up. They want more advertisers. It's the consistent,
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
record of this company to screw consumers before themselves, like before fixing the problem or taking the costs that it would take to do this because they just want to, I mean, can you imagine that many knocks before you get thrown off? Like, do you need that many knocks before, 32 automated strikes for financial fraud before banning accounts? Like, it's just, why isn't it two? Or five?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Or why don't we investigate after five and then dump after 10 or something? It's a company that doesn't care about that because they're just, you know, and these companies will cut, let me just say software engineers, they will cut you tomorrow. The minute they can have AI write this code, they are in love with it.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
They're in love with the savings, as Scott said, and they will do it because that's what they do. They are very good at becoming more efficient. Of course, people are hardly their concern. That's always been my impression.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I was wearing Jordans. What are you talking about?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
That is a really good point. Two days ago, yesterday he had like, can I call these 19 people to check something that didn't even make it in the story, some of them that got caught later. You're right. Scott, once again, You're insightful and I'm really proud of you.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I love your climbing wall. Whose idea was that?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, I look good on the climbing wall. Be admittable. It was a good idea.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
It was in your studio. Anyway, we're moving on.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
And who was the hero of that series?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
But the short guy was the hero of that entire thing. Anyway, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Novo Nordisk pushes out its CEO. This is a topic I'm eager to talk to you about.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Scott, we're back. Ozempic maker Novo Nordisk has pushed out its CEO as it loses ground in the anti-obesity drug market. Lars Jorgensen, who has run the company for eight years, will step down following the stock price dives and impatience from the nonprofit that controls the company.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
In recent years, the company has struggled with supply shortages and the production of Wagovi and the steep competition from Eli Lilly's Mungero and Zepbound to say nothing of the knockoffs that are happening, which they're trying to rein in, but they're not being as successful. They're trying. Novo Nordisk shares have fallen over 50% since 2024. It had a huge upsurge when this became popular.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
And more on the topic, Weight Watchers filed for bankruptcy, which was another prediction win for you, Scott, by the way. Talk about what's happening here, because, you know, we had talked about these industries going to the moon. It's sort of like NVIDIA going to the moon because of people interested in it. But it turns out, even if you have a successful thing, you have to keep in competition.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
How many lesbian tropes are you going to pull out of your little hat?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Same thing, see Tesla, see all these things.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
They're not good. It's called a Lesburu, first of all. A Lesburu. That's better. A U-Haul. You forgot the U-Haul one. There's so many you're missing. You have to get to. Yeah. Anyway, it was a nice piece. And more to the point, thank you again for letting me stay at your beautiful home. I had a great time. And Louie, really appreciate it.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah. So what about the Weight Watchers one? This is a prediction you made. Obviously, they were trying to get into this market. They have been with a CEO. I've interviewed her. They were trying to shift. I have had so many interviews with so many CEOs of Weight Watchers, and the shifting has been really hard.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
And I think at its heart is their business model doesn't work anymore in the new environment. But they tried to go to these drugs, and they tried this, and they tried that. They tried to call it WW. They tried to do a different thing all the time. Why did you predict that, and what do you think of what's happened?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
So what do you, what do you, where is this going to go? This is something you've talked, you talked about this very early. Where do you imagine these, it's just more competition, just the way EVs are doing that. And lots of people are, you know, at the same time, EV is still a very rocky business and people are, the uptake is still not there for consumers.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
They have driven across country, the two boys, and they're stopping at all kinds of places, which are very funny. And it was really helpful for our family. I really appreciate it. And thank you for letting me use your climbing wall to become even more egotistical. I really appreciate that. To climb to further heights.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
It's growing, but not in the way people thought it would.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I'm so glad to be doing more years with you. I love our show. I love our team. And I mostly love you, Scott Gell.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
As you read in the New York Times.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
But go ahead. What what would happen?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
That would be great. Good point. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's do wins and fails. I shall start today. Please. Unless you want to. Would you want to start? No, no, go ahead. All right.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
So the fail is so obviously Amazon announcing that it will work with Humane, the AI company launched by Mohammed bin Salman to build an AI zone in Saudi Arabia. For people that know, a lot of the Arab states are trying very hard to become the data center. There's all kinds of privacy issues, et cetera, but they're trying really hard to do that.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
The only issue with something like Amazon is that in 2018, Jamal Khashoggi, a writer for the Bezos-owned Washington Post, was killed and dismembered with the approval.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
of the saudi crown prince um i just just like this guy doesn't have any like he he was just appearing at his funeral saying how terrible it was and then two years later or whatever hey no problem and it's fine for other people i guess they're all going to show up there for this guy um but it just was particularly vexing if you're if you're a washington post person and i know you don't feel bad for the washington post people but
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Dismembering and vivisecting a columnist is not something you should do business with. I would say President Trump attacking Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, and now apparently Beyonce, Oprah. He wants to sue them all and investigate them for singing for Kamala Harris is stupid, but I don't really care. It's just ridiculousness.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, it was good. It was good. It was nice. It was very nice. And I like the, it had news of our, we're staying at Vox. That's really what the news is, correct. And that's a really, we're happy that deal is done, aren't we?
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
And for my win, well, obviously, it's going to be Tom Cruise for this week, for this movie, for Final Reckoning. I'm going to go by myself. I'll probably see it multiple times. I don't care what you think of me, but that is what I am. I'm so excited about it. It's a win that it's here and that Kara can finally be happy because I've been waiting for it for a while. I love Mission Impossibles.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I love them, love them, love them so much. That's it.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Cool. I'd love to watch her.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
That's how you would put it.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
We're going to move you on today because we've got a lot to get to today. Anyway, we'll be here for four more years, everybody. So just remember, at least this podcast, who knows what's coming up.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
It's amazing how they benefit from conspiracy theories. I don't know how they live with themselves in that regard. But they do.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Very good, Scott. Nice. Well done. I like those.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
You're trying to scale my business. Scale to further heights. Maybe if you got on that climbing wall every now and then.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Oh, that could be interesting.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I have to say your concierge likes me better, I think. Who? Is this? Yeah, because we bring liveliness to it. We're fun. Who likes you better? Your concierge. They like me better. The door people? The doorman? Yeah. Yeah.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
They like you. They like you. They like you. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about your business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on On with Kara Swisher, I talked to Barry Diller about his new memoir. Let's listen to a clip.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, it's a good deal. It's a good deal and it's a good deal for everybody.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I love him. He's very funny. He's one of the most forthright of the moguls. And he is who he is.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
like every people have a lot of complaints about barry diller but i gotta tell you he's absolutely like i'm the least interested in the gay part like i knew it everyone knew it kind of thing but i thought this book is fantastic it's a it's a really gripping story about uh about his family which was very there's a lot of incredible dysfunction there but also his ideas around business and creating media and i think he's been one of the one of the entrepreneur one of the more entrepreneurial members
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
of that class, of the old mogul class. And so I enjoyed it. He's just a gas. He's really a gas. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, you did. You did. And we have gotten to a good place. We are very happy to stay here. We do like working with Vox, but we did talk to some interesting people. It's an interesting insight into the podcast universe and where things are going. And you have to be creative and try different things.
Pivot
Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
We did a lot of things that are really interesting in the deal, and hopefully it will yield us both many, many more riches to come and good shows mostly. Because I think our fans tend to like us. Hopefully we'll get even bigger and then I'll have another piece in four years. I don't know where I'll be in your apartment. Maybe I'll own your apartment at that point. I'll see about that.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I love that. Well, you can stay at any of my homes.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I think I have. I think I actually have.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited for your FT Pink Bitch or Salmon Bitch article. You have to send it to me when it comes out. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. There's a lot going on, including Trump bullying Walmart and Apple. How ridiculous. And Meta delaying the release of its new AI model.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
But first, President Joe Biden has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer that has spread to his bones. Biden and his family are reviewing treatment options with doctors. A statement from his office notes the cancer appears to be hormone sensitive, which allows for effective management.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Messages of support have come in from across the political spectrum, including from President Trump, though Don Jr. and other MAGA-adjacent folks are already spreading theories about cover-ups and conspiracies. All this as a new book and audio recordings are raising questions about his mental fitness over the last few years. Any reaction to this news, except sort of sad?
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Why don't you go first on this one, Cara? I'm sad for him. I don't feel like, you know, there's been a lot of people like, you should talk more about this Biden book. Look, it's in the rearview mirror. He obviously shouldn't have run. Scott in particular, and then I jumped on the same wagon as him, thought he should have stepped down much earlier. We talked about it a lot.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
We got a lot of attacks for saying that. I don't want to say we were right. We just felt we needed, it wasn't so much that he, it was that he was older, but that we needed a fresh start and someone who was up to the task of the presidency. And by the way, we said the same thing about Donald Trump. He's too old.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
He's just simply too old and is not headed in the right direction mentally or physically. So I feel, but I do feel badly this guy has devoted himself to service. I think on the whole, he will be judged well by history. I think he's done a lot of important things. as an interesting evolution. I think the last couple years of his life have not gone well for him. And this is bad news. As for Don Jr.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
and other MAGA people doing this, go fuck yourselves. It's really grotesque. He wasn't hiding cancer. He may have had it. Maybe he didn't get checked. I don't know. But given that the MAGA people already pushed, who were pushing the Epstein suicide conspiracy theories, and now Dan Fongino, who did that, one of the people who did it, is now saying it was suicide.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
It's just these people, all they want to do is spread theories to create a mess. And it's sad that they're doing it in the fact that this guy probably is in a little more, it's probably not a very good cognosis for Joe Biden, would be my guess. I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, you got a lot of shit. I'll tell you that, you did get a lot of shit.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
What's your age limit again? I forgot.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of places are 65. Like the New York Times editor is 65, right? There's like, I would say 70.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
That's your climbing wall.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
You've been talking about this for a while, about the tenure system.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Right, and then it's not the excuse. But there is a sense of people want to hold on. I was at one of these clubs on the Upper East Side, it was full of those guys. I kept thinking they just can't let go. You know what I mean? It was interesting.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, they know it. You know, that's the issue with my mom too. She knows. right? They know this is it. If they have to stop, or they stop getting decision-making power or power or whatever. In Biden's case, it's just tragic because it puts a... I want to get it back to Biden, but it puts in... The ending of this is not good. It's not a good thing.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
And especially when you have crazy fucking MAGA people. They were going on about Jill Biden not knowing about... She's not a medical doctor, people. She's his wife, really. And so...
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
She has a doctorate, whatever. In any case, this has not ended well, and this is how it often happens. People don't end well. Can you make me a promise? Can we end well?
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
I feel the same way, except I'm not going out like you. I'm just going to let nature take its course with Kara Swisher. But I'll be there for you if you want that.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Yeah, I'll do an interpretive dance in front of you just before you die.
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Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart
Anyway, we have to move on. This is getting dark. But anyway, not today. By the way, let me just say Mission Impossible is coming next week. I'm so excited.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Support for this show comes from ServiceNow, which is enabling people to do more meaningful, creative work, the work they actually want to do. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work. But now with AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of the business. IT, HR, customer service, and more.
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There's a question of what it does to the dollar. The New York Times pointed out over the weekend that Trump's trade war is leading to retaliatory tariffs that specifically target Trump voters. Nearly 8 million Americans work in industries targeted by levies, and the majority are Trump voters, a New York Times analysis showed. They include corn, car makers, poultry, steel mills, and more.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Happy belated St. Patrick's Day, Scott Galloway, even though you're Scottish.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Consumer sentiment hit nearly a two-and-a-half-year low in March. Inflation is exhortations absurd. So talk about this, because this is a huge opportunity that the Democrats are not taking in any way.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Yes, that's correct. So one of the things, though, I thought Besson, I was watching him this weekend, I thought he did so badly from a messaging point, speaking of messaging, I thought he looked
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rich he looked like scrooge mcduck i don't know why like a gay scrooge mcduck but it was really gay has nothing to do with it nonetheless um that's what he looked like to me but um it was a bad messaging like you you don't have any right to chinese flat screens americans i'm like you don't it's none of your business what i have a right to it was so snotty um i thought i was i was sort of surprised by that messaging
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And I thought he did a bad job on all the programs he appeared on. He looks like he's a rich guy telling poor people to suck it up. You'll appreciate later once we get through this. But I'm like, there's no pain for you anywhere along this route whatsoever. I don't know if that's resonant, but I was offended by him. And I got some money, right?
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We're not going to say where you went, but you went to an exciting wedding.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
I was like, wow, you're really obnoxious kind of personality. I think Wall Street was quite disturbed by him because they thought he was sort of the reasonable guy.
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Shut the fuck up. I was like, why is anyone saying to shut the fuck up? Because I was saying it to the TV screen. I'm like, I'm not in business when I want to buy plastic toys for my kids till the end of time.
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There's no diamond. I hope you didn't do that this weekend, Scott.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Well, last thing on the economy, I saw the best animation over the weekend comparing Warren Buffett and Cathie Wood's strategies over the past four years. Warren Buffett's kicked some fucking ass, this guy. He likes value stocks. Cathie likes, I guess, growth. I don't know. She's up 67.
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Like, it's crazy. He's had his ups and downs, but hers just kept going down. Why do people listen to her? Did you see that?
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Honestly, I just love, Warren Buffett, look, he's super old and he's not going to last that long, but man, does he the fucking goat. I'm just saying, I just love that animation. Kathy Wood, you, I just was, I love a visual. I love a visual because you're like, see what I'm saying kind of stuff.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Anything exciting happen? Did you, you know, do anything embarrassing for the team here?
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Oh, my God. I'm so glad you're going to teach again. You should. That would be a really good class. Anyway, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, more agency cuts by the Trump administration. Last week, John Levitt joined me to co-host an episode of Pivot, and it was a great one. If you enjoyed that, you'll love his podcast, Love It or Leave It.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Love It or Leave It is America's top late-night political gay live comedy podcast. John takes on the biggest and most absurd stories in politics and helps you stay informed while laughing instead of crying. Sometimes he cries. Each episode promises big-name guests, unexpected conversations, and can't-miss moments. Catch new episodes of Love It or Leave It every Saturday. Watch on YouTube.
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or join the live show in LA to witness the chaos in person.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Scott, we're back. President Trump has placed another round of agency on the chopping block, including the Voice of America, or VOA. It's kind of a screw you to Carrie Lake, but that's another issue. I'm perfectly happy with that. The VOA, run by the U.S. Agency for Global Media, broadcasts United States domestic news to hundreds of millions around the world to extend U.S.
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influence and to combat authoritarianism. Carrie Lake, who Trump chose to run VOA—she was the one who keeps losing in Arizona— the loud, nasty lady who keeps losing in Arizona, was planning to transform the outlet to fight an information war.
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The cuts made in an executive order also targeted agencies which address homelessness, fund libraries, and promote economic development for minority and low-income communities. So basically everybody but the rich people. I don't know if the BOA cut matters. What do you think of this Voice of America cut? No big deal? Big deal?
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
No, okay. What are you, like, D-list?
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Okay, you did those things for your lovely wife, I assume.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
It's the smallest amount of money to spend, one, to keep it away. We have a better story.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
And by the way, the media is good. It's actually very clear. It's, you know, they're like, oh, they're anti-Trump. This is the whole thing, you know. obsessing them. But if you're in... Listen, Kerry Lake, who, I'm sorry, is a village idiot, he was going to transform the outlet to fight an information war. Yes, Kerry, that's what you need to do, but not in your trumped-up, ridiculous way.
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It's giving people good information about the United States and what we're doing here. It shows we're present. It shows we care. It's like, even if it's... It's just very solid. I have listened to Voice of America elsewhere. And we also fund things like Radio for Europe, et cetera. I know there's some things, and I do think about this a lot, that are of a different era and we shouldn't do anymore.
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And that means your people can focus on the work that they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started at servicenow.com slash AI dash agents.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Good, good. I'm glad. I'm glad you had a good time. Sorry I wasn't there. I was moving my mom into assisted living. which was not quite as glamorous.
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Like sometimes we have to change in things, but this is money well spent, especially when the Chinese and the Russians and other people are putting out all kinds of misinformation around the world and information about themselves, right? Not just misinformation, but look at us. Look what we're doing and stuff like that. And I just think it's just the best way to say, you know, here's America.
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We're still here. We still are great. And I just what a what a the only thing that I get pleasure in is she doesn't really have a job, but that's fine. Like, that's just my personal pleasure. But the cuts they're making are so targeted to things that make us better as a nation that it's really it's it.
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It's just a fend for yourself thing that's happening, which I think is not the picture America has of itself, or maybe they do now.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
And she wanted to bring all her skills as a news—she was on a local news station, Carrie. Sorry, I don't find you to be the top-level media thinker of our generation.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Although it's a nice place. It's really lovely, and the people are wonderful, and they're in D.C. Um, and I have to say they handle everything. There's so much stuff to do and they handle. And let me just tell you something. Amazingly, the food at this fucking place is so good. I don't even know what to say. I like would go, I would go there every night. The food is so good.
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That's what you should do, America. You should do that. They're getting rid of all these democracy organizations. You know, there's a million democracy organizations.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Now I understand, but it's a beautiful place. It's one of these high end ones. And, um, I literally, everyone's like, the food can't be good. I bring it back to Amanda and she's like, that's fucking delicious. It's like, I want to eat there. It's like so good. So anyway, I was pretty pleased.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Actually, it's going better than I thought. I ordered my mom the New York Times and the New York Post to be delivered here, so that's a good sign. So she can have her daily intake of crap and good news, good, well-done news. But anyway, she has a beautiful place. It worked out as best as it could, and we brought her to the house for dinner, and it's working.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
, , , , , ,, the en P P P P P P P P P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
It's going to be a lot for Kara Swisher. This is the third tribe for Lucky, and it's going to stick. Let me just tell you, it's going to stick. Anyway, otherwise, I was moving into my house, too. So it's been a really glamorous meet, unpacking boxes. You've got a lot going on. I do. This morning, I was like, oh, I dropped Claire off, then went and got candy cakes for my mom.
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This is literally like four bad jokes. What is happening?
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Okay. All right. One more quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails. Obviously, fails are four penis jokes in a row. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I shall go first. I shall go first. Let me say a win. I know you're with him this weekend, but Severance is so fucking good.
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I love you, Ben Stiller. Let me just say, both Amanda and I, it's so incredibly dense, but also fascinating. utterly fascinating. And you think about it all week. It is one of those shows. And I got to say, I was like, I like a lot. I love The Sopranos. I like The Bear. This one has me thinking and thinking and thinking about all kinds of issues around identity, everything else.
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But it's also fascinating really gripping at the same time and entertaining.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Let me just say, and I always can say, oh, that's going to happen next. When I watch White Lotus, as much as I like it, I know exactly what's going to happen, essentially. I don't know what's going to happen in this fucking thing. They're so inventive. I have to say, Patricia Arquette, they're all good on this show. There's not a person that's not good. The guy who plays Mr. Milchak, he's amazing.
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But I love this show. And Ben, kudos. And it's doing incredibly well for Apple. The audience is growing week to week. And it's not one of those small audiences that everyone's talking about. It's a big audience for Apple. It's making a ton of money. Kudos, kudos, kudos. These are people at the top of their game. I have to say, I think about it all the time. So that is my win.
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My fail, well, obviously, Chuck Schumer, because, by the way, his book tour events were postponed after the backlash. He has a new book out called Anti-Semitism in America, a warning that's been postponed for security reasons, apparently. But that's not my loss.
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Where Are My Testicles. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I would say this ridiculous. Trump is always doing a ridiculous thing and a distracting thing. But his statement this weekend about Biden's pardons are void and vacant because of the auto pen. There's no power to undo a pardon in the Constitution or case law.
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If he wants to do all his stupid parts, I'm not a fan of the pardon system by presidents in any way whatsoever. I think they should get three, and that's it, and they can't get paid for it. But get your—just, like, stop with this fucking ridiculousness.
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You can't—and the way he does it, he goes, hereby declared in capital letters, void, vacant, and no further force than effect, because they were done by the auto pen— Fuck you. Like, honestly, like, this was even, for him, was a ridiculous, stupid thing to do. And he has a list of stupid things. So, like, look, if we're going to keep...
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Do you know those peanut butter things from Tasty Cake? Got those.
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these dumb pardons, just stop acting like, this is what occupies your brain, like good maybe, I suppose. So I was really irritated by that for some reason. Anyway, that's my positive and negative. Severance, fantasticness, Trump, as usual, distraction, distraction, distraction, and it's working, unfortunately.
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Who do you like in the Democrats? Can I ask you to pick someone? Chris Murphy is being kind of spicy, AOC.
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And brought her her series. I bought a series of, like, National Enquirer. She likes people, National Enquirer, In Touch. I was embarrassed at the giant food to buy those things, but I did. And then visited her and then came here.
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He's the one the Republicans are nervous about, I can tell you.
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Eunuchs. It's a word you don't use very often. I like that word.
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Okay, that's good. That's good. I love him. I have a heart for him.
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Oh, you're win and fail. Fail is the Democrats.
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Oh, my God, that's terrible. You know what, Scott? It's coming for all of us, let's just say. It's not good. Diapers depends be coming for you someday.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Yeah, can I put something out there? So they interviewed, Politico interviewed Chris Lasavita, who was one of the campaign managers of Donald Trump. And he was saying how stupid Europeans are. I'd love you to answer this. He goes, we basically subsidized Europe for the last 50 years, 60 years of post-World War II. And of course, we did the rebuilding. We've done all those things.
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Anyway, anyhow, it's going really well, and I think she's having a relatively good time for her. Anyway, today we'll talk about the economy as the S&P tries to recover from correction territory, as well as the effects of the latest round of Trump's executive orders.
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We're able to create these social paradises where the government paid for everything they didn't have to pay for was their national defense. You know, at some point in time, the gravy trains got to end. Well, the gravy train's ending now. The Cold War's over. The balance of power shifts. All these things have changed. Politicians in Europe don't want to change.
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They sure don't want to change at the pace that's being forced on them to change how they go about spending. So it's going to create a new level of angst. And then he said, at the same time, they're arrogant as hell. I've spent time in Europe in the last couple of years. They still don't get it. They don't understand there's a new sheriff in town.
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And he's a very, very set ways and pensions about America first means we're first, you're second. I think this guy's a fucking idiot. Like he doesn't see what's actually, we're actually going to make them stronger by this, correct? That's what you argue.
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But first, big cracks are showing in the Democratic Party after 10 Senate Democrats voted with Republicans to avoid a government shutdown this past week. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer infuriated fellow party members by crossing the aisle to pass President Trump's approved stopgap measure.
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Christel Savita, you're an idiot. You're the arrogant prick. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, I talked to Ezra Klein this week on with Kara Swisher. Let's listen to a clip.
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I thought it was good. His book is really interesting. It's about the government, the Democrats getting a set of balls, essentially. And I think it's an interesting book. I know you've interviewed him, too. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is doing very well.
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Prominent Dems such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wanted to force a shutdown to protest Trump and Elon Musk's federal spending cuts. Schumer defended his decision to Lulu Garcia Navarro of the New York Times on Sunday. Here's what he said.
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Yes, many times. He's very popular. He's like the media sexy guy now, and you have to really compete. You need to compete, okay? Anyway, we'll be back on Friday, by the way. Scott, do not sing YMCA and read us out.
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That is his excuse, although how did you get in the fucking situation, Chuck? That's one of the things I would say. He's not really a terrific leader at the same time. He has a point. At the same time, they're cutting down the government. They are anyway, slowly. This is a quicker way to do it. So talk about this lesser of two evils thing. I've been talking to both.
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You know, I think the Republicans got them in a jam is what they did. There's rumors that Democrats are urging AOC to primary Schumer. So talk a little bit about this, because I think it's two choices of despair with one of the Democrats talking about it. And there's a real shift of like, let them shut it down then, and let's see what people think.
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And then there are others of, oh, no, they're going to shut it down, trying to protect all your marbles. So any thoughts?
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Right, which we talked about. I mean, though Fetterman was also on the side, we don't shut the government down. Now, Ted Cruz tried to do this with Obamacare. Remember, he pushed that shutdown, and I know the Republicans suffered for it. In a similar jam, the Republicans were in a jam for years, right? They had this kind of situation.
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Right, right. Well, that's the argument, is that whoever initiates the shutdown holds the bag of shit, essentially.
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I think Obama was in control then too.
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I agree with you. I think we were right when we said that in Austin. Like, let them do it. Let the chips fall where they may. And I don't think they have a choice because this is going to be a playbook for the Republicans the whole time. Like, put them in a jam, put them in a jam, and use Elon Musk as the boogeyman. Well, let him be a boogeyman then, right? Just let him.
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Let him look ridiculous, rich. over-privileged, cutting people. And yes, they can cut all this stuff. And I get that there's... It's just when you're always playing defense and you're always trying to catch all the balls and stop all the eruptions, you are the loser in that game because they can just... They're acting like they're in...
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in the minority in a weird way, even though they're in the majority, right? They're doing the bomb throwing, the blowing things up, everything else, which is really interesting to me.
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Yeah, no, I think AOC seems to be very articulate on this. Like, here's what we do. Like, she seems to have a plan, like, in that way. And Schumer's is sort of like, well, we don't want them to shut down the government faster. I'm like, well, they're doing it slower. What's the fucking difference? Like... They're going to do what they're going to do until you win elections. That's pretty much it.
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Hakeem Jeffries kind of dissed Sumer, which was interesting. He was trying to get something going on the House on this topic and voted against it.
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Well, he did hold that group together to vote against it. It's just that all the Republicans stayed together. They weren't expecting the Republicans. It was only one no vote. So he did hold those guys together, right? There could have been some peel-offs among the Trump areas, you know, the people that are in those mixed areas.
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But he held them all together, and Schumer did not, and obviously worked behind the scenes to get 10 people to do what he wanted them to do. Which, oh, they're all old, I bet.
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And I feel like— Let them do it, and then let the media write about it, and let people freak the fuck out, and move the story back to Trump cutting government in half, right? That's what I say. So let's get to polls. It's interesting. This is on the economy, but there's larger polls here because I do think there's real opportunity.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
Now, this new NBC poll shows that while Trump has his best approval rating ever, the majority of voters disapprove of how he's handled the economy so far. There's so much weakness there. We'll talk about the market collection, but I'm going to read from Kristen Soltis Anderson, who I really do trust. She's a conservative pollster. And she said that everything's mixed all over the place.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
And, you know, he thinks he has a mandate. He thinks he can do all this stuff because he believes he has the latitude to go big and bold to create some turbulence and cause some prices to rise in the church as he asserts himself. But as I dug into Mr. Trump's polling data, it looked increasingly that American voters' mandate to the president was more narrow than he sees it.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
After a prolonged period of inflation with a Biden administration that told Americans not to believe their lying wallets, voters clearly wanted the next president to stabilize the economy and make their cost of living more manageable. And so she's putting out that this is a very big opportunity for Democrats. You know what I mean? That they don't think what he's doing is great.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
But this is a dangerous gamble. Mr. Trump's agenda is carried out almost exclusively through executive power and public opinion gives government control. Back to his opponents. The Affordable Care Act proved too difficult for Republicans to uproot because it is enshrined by law by Congress and many, many support it. Well, Mr. Trump's actions are products of pen and phone alone.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
So the number one issue of America remains the number one issue, and there are real political risks to the strategy that asked voters to grin and bear it at the checkout line today for a promise of something better tomorrow. That's what they're doing, the Trump administration. The S&P closed 10% below recent highs. It's now trailing major markets in Europe and China, as you've discussed.
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Democrats Divided, Market Roller Coaster, and Southwest Airlines
It's down about 6% since the inauguration, and Treasury Secretary Scott Besson said, who sounds like a MAGA now, called the correction healthy. Also, by the way, he has a $22 million house while he was saying, just suck it up to people. He was saying that the aftershocks are normal for a correction and you need to grin and bear it. That's essentially what Scott Besson said.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
doing that and something you think is you know good or meaningful to you but then the overall goal of this corporation you're working for might be totally nefarious yeah the goal of the billionaires tech billionaires is fascism as it turned out and greed right it's all about greed well power no power power is where it is but or they know better and they will tell us what to do and that's what this corp lumen is like that too we know we care but then they don't actually care in any way
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So there's a lot about the unconscious as a model of knowing, separating you from doing severed, but not entirely severed, since a lot of it creeps into the consciousness, like the happiness he has in one world and deep unhappiness in the others, and the idea that it would seep into it. What does it mean to have two senses of knowing? And how does it impact directing the actors?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Because the actors obviously have to be two different people when you're doing it.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
You know, years ago, I had a friend who was in one of those psychiatric things where they did therapy every day for hours and hours and was trying to find out, you know, all about themselves and figuring out where suppressed memories was. And they said, have you ever been to therapy? I said, never. I just, I don't want to know that much about myself.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. We're off for the holiday, but we're bringing you a great episode of my other podcast, On with Kara Swisher, my recent interview with Ben Stiller, whom Scott and I adore. Ben is the executive producer and go-to director of one of my favorite shows, Severance.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Like something like that, something offhand, which is probably rude to someone who's in intense therapy. And they said to me, they were a pretty unhappy person, I would say. And they said to me, you're blocking. And I said, it's working. Because I'm happy and you're not. Which was kind of an interesting moment. And I thought about it watching this.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I thought it would be really interesting to watch this if you're a therapist of some sort, too. Like, how do you look at this? Because everything's about the conscious and unconscious and what bleeds into each other. Yeah.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, well, except in this case, they use an advanced piece of technology to create the sever, right? To create the suppressing of the unconscious or the conscious. But even though it's an advanced technology that's happening here, it seems like everyone in the show is living in the 70s, as you talked about. It's a retro set. The costumes feel older on all of them, really.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Talk a little bit about that, why you wanted the look and feel. There's also a lot of doubling and duality, which was there's people walking together, right? in twos, or it's a theme of two characters playing two different people. Talk a little bit about that, the look and feel of why you had the retro set and also the duality that's happening visually.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
We talk about all things innie and outie, and Ben also shares his thoughts about being an Elon Musk target. Enjoy the episode. Scott and I will be back on Friday. The M7 is a little, it picks up noise. It's a much better mic, so.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, it's got the Stanford Prison Experiment vibe to it, too.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, I went back and looked at the movements, and it's all duality. It's really interesting. But it also has a level of suspense, since there is what the viewer knows and what two different people know, and then the pervasive sense of withholding information in a total surveillance environment, right?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
There's a lot of misinformation happening here in this environment, largely by the Lumen executives, who are not severed, by the way, who know both sides.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, that's good. You're very manly. It's great. Okay, good.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Mm-hmm. Right, absolutely. I mean, it's also a return to work story, which is sort of in the news right now, this idea of return to work. Did you understand that at the time? You had a COVID period in here when you were making it.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I don't remember any of that. I don't remember. Blocking is working. Someone's like, do you remember that? I'm like, I don't.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I don't remember that. It's not going very well right now. We'll get to that in a minute. But no, blocking, it's working. I want to get into the business of this in a second, but do you have a character you particularly like? vibe with on the show?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. Today, I'm talking to actor, director, and producer Ben Stiller, someone I've gotten to know over the past few years and really enjoy talking to. I really enjoy the second season of his hit series, Severance, and it's finally arrived after almost three years.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
The Defiant Jazz scene was my favorite when they were dancing. So awkward. I've been at that party. I've been at that office party where they have cake in the office. They do pineapples here.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Quite good. He didn't do his, you know, biting his lip enough.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So I want to talk a little bit about the business. Have you been surprised how popular it's gotten? I know Succession got more popular in the second season, right? And Severance was Apple's first new series order after the company launched its streaming service. And it was trying to do an HBO thing. That was very clear. A place for big talent to come and make what they want with big budgets.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Now, Severance is reportedly costing a lot of money, and there have been cuts at Apple pulling the budget down. as the second season was being produced all across the way. But at the same time, Parrot Analytics was noting that you might be generating $200 million for Apple in terms of subscriptions and everything else. And at the same time, you're about to maybe announce your third season.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I liked the first season, but the second season has really taken it to a new level. This is Apple TV's dystopian workplace comedy thriller about a company that's taken work-life balance to the extreme. In the world of severance, employees at the company called Lumen can choose to sever their brains into two selves, one for work and one for living.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Talk a little bit about the calculations here of how you look at it, because it used to be so much easier. Now, you made mostly movies over TV shows. But talk a little bit about the calculations, because it's a weird economic environment at the same time.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Oh, they don't. No, they don't ever tell you the analytics.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
And it always felt like a good- Well, it looks like Apple headquarters, but go ahead.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
When they clock in at 9 a.m., their brain is wiped clean of the outside world. And when they clock out at 5 p.m., it's wiped clean of work. I just love this show. I can't explain why you have to watch it.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So you don't know, I mean, I'm just, this paired analytics is pretty accurate, $200 million for Apple in terms of, you don't know.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, does that change your, you know, going to Apple saying, I want more money, I want... No, I know, because honestly, I feel like they've been great.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Did you have any problems working for a tech company?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, versus a Hollywood. Yeah. This is a whole new change with these tech companies, sort of Amazon and Apple.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
It's about a lot of things that are going on today, but it's a lot of things that have gone on for a while, and it's about who you are and the unconscious, and it's also very, very funny, which is the best part of it. Ben is the show's executive producer, and he's directed many of the episodes, so we're going to get into the themes, big ideas, and creative choices that have gone into the series.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, like Amazon. The creator of Transparent called me once, and I said, you're selling toilet paper. That's what you're doing.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah. So what are the chances of a third season? You did get Tim Cook in an ad. That was a good sign.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
He pretends he's not a ham. He's a ham. He seemed to like it.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So at the same time, there's the Netflix phenomenon, right? They regularly beat all the other streamers, more top 10 shows combined than all of them, despite the quality and reviews that Apple gets. They'll pop up anything, Netflix, like really pretty much. Now, you guys have been doing a bunch of marketing.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
You had the season two pop up in Grand Central Station that was hysterical, where you put them in a glass box and had people, had them do their work in the glass box, which was great.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
For three hours, and you were outside, people were shooting pictures of you at the same time. How do you, does everything now go around Netflix in that regard, or is there, streaming is sort of starting to settle, I guess, but maybe not?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
which is written by a man named Dan Erickson. It's his first outing, and what an impressive outing it is. Severance is also a success for Apple TV. It's reportedly generated $200 million for the streamer. We'll talk about his experience working with the tech giant, get his views on how tech money is impacting Hollywood.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Well, you've made both types of movies, right? Sure.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Even more existential. In that vein, there's a question not from me. Every episode, we ask an outside person to record a question. Here's yours.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
That's presuming you have existential dread.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
and how Trump's return could affect the ability of artists to get their stories made. On that note, our expert question this week comes from Bloomberg reporter Lucas Shaw, who writes a weekly newsletter called Screen Time about the collision of Hollywood and Silicon Valley. So stick around.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
What didn't feel so... You had noted it in the New York Times interview, though, that when a decision is made, it's never explained to the creative person, or usually, if it is, it's not usually the truth, et cetera.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
But I do think you're right. The bosses don't know what's going to happen, right? That's the problem is they really don't know. And going back to existential jet, coming up with the guardrails for use of AI in filmmaking are important points in negotiation. The actors and writers strikes. We've talked about this. There was some recent controversy with the Oscar-nominated film The Brutalist.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
They use AI to correct the Hungarian accents of its lead actors. Do you think about AI's potential impact on the industry? Are you thrilled by it? Is there a line in your head that shouldn't be crossed when applying? I suspect you might lean into it. I don't know why I think that. Maybe not.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Well, they take your image a lot. Zoolander, all your different parts. I've often seen... That also happens.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So you recently joined me in a not-so-exclusive club. We've both been called names by Elon Musk. I am seething with hate and an asshole, in case you're interested. I'm not going to repeat what he said about you. You know what he said about you. We're not repeating that word. Because I'm a good girl, okay? I don't say that word anymore. I used to when I was a kid. We don't do it anymore.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
But he seemed upset that you endorsed Kamala Harris and then... after you wondered in an interview whether Tropic Thunder could be made today, and I wish there was, as you know, I'm desperate for Tropic Thunder 2, he wanted you to be more upset about how Woke is a supposedly ruined comedy. Talk a little bit about this moment.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I have no idea what that means. Do you think he's on the up and up now these days? Because he makes so much sense about everything he does.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So tell me why, because he was retweeting a Daily Mail headline that read, Ben Stiller says woke America killed edgier comedy. That's not what you said at all from what I could read.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
It is, absolutely. The two of them together.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
He wanted you to agree with him that Tropic Thunder couldn't be made. Isn't that awful? It goes with the narrative of isn't everybody trying to stop us because we're the greatest victims on earth. Us rich people are the greatest. I think that's down that lane, something like that.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
He wanted you to agree with him, I think.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Yeah, but you don't. Okay. But one of the things that people are worried about is a Trump chill in Hollywood. Now, obviously, that's happening in tech. Everybody showed up at the inauguration, all the tech richest people in the world. New York Magazine recently quoted an anonymous producer who said there's more fear in the executive suites now than there's ever been.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
There seems to be a pulling back. Disney pulled a trans character, for example. Is there any indication for you that Hollywood executives would be more hesitant to fund projects with political messages, quite a few of yours have them. Now, besides sports that you endlessly blue sky about, which I don't understand any of your references, you're also very political. You don't shy away from it.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I believe they're a basketball team in any case. You are a political, but do you think about that at all?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
What about the art itself? Do you think how it will be impacted by the time we're in, if you could look forward? I know I interviewed Rachel Maddow recently, and we talked a bit about her podcast about Nixon's corrupt first vice president, Spear Agnew, called Bag Man. It's being adapted into a feature film you reportedly set to direct. Do you think about doing, are you directing that?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Does it make you want to do more? Because I mean, angels in America came out of Reagan, right? It came out of that anger. A lot of that art came out of this.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Is there something that inspires you now at this moment? Because, I mean, do you feel more – I don't feel like you're going to be making Night at the Museum 7 at this point or whatever we're on.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Oh, your heist movie. What's it called, heist?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Oh, wow. Well, I don't think anybody ever heard that. Oh, wow. Good to know.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Right, and Spear Ragnew is quite a character. He's such a fantastic character. That was a great podcast. I like all of Rachel's podcasts a lot.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So my last question is where we go is this idea of influences you now, or perhaps before. I know your mother and father, the great Jerry Stiller and Ann Mira, she died in 2015, I think that's right, and he died in 2020. You're working on a documentary about them right now. Can you talk a little bit about this?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
And I imagine they gave you a lot of advice about entertainment, business, and storytelling over the years. Is there anything about their careers from your perspective that endures and what influences you today?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
And when does that, where is that coming out?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So last question, what then influences you today about doing this from them? What did you come away with?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Kateri Yochum, Jolie Myers, Megan Burney, Megan Cunane, and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Kate Furby. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you get a pineapple.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
If not, you get the dance experience, and you do not want that experience. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Ben S., welcome and thanks for being on On.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
That's obviously a severance reference for people who don't know. This show is about a world in which you can become a different person during working hours. The person is called your innie, and it is you, but your brain wiped of all the details of your outie life. So the innie is you, but not really you. It's without a lot of information or background.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
I'm just curious, have you ever thought about what your innie would be like?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Well, you know, it's interesting because some people's innies are not. Like on the show, like Helly's is quite angry, right? She's instantly angry. And her outie is also angry in a different way.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Right. So you wonder where that comes from, right? Because a lot of them do, and then they suddenly get rebellious pretty quickly, all of them by reading books or going down the hall to see a potential boyfriend or whatever. They lose their They become outies pretty quickly, I would say.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Right. And a cynicism that goes with it because they're beginning to see things. So would you ever do get severed? I'm just curious. I was thinking, I was talking about with my wife, Amanda, like, would you let it happen? She said it would be impossible to sever me because I'd be the same irritating person.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Right. It's also, I go to hardware stores and browse. I do. I love them. So to be clear, you're not the writer of Severance, but you're executive producer and have directed quite a lot of the episodes. But you have been the driver of it, it feels like. You were supposed to star in it, and you said you prefer to either direct or act, but not both.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
So what attracted you to it and the writer, Dan Erickson?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
What was the thing about it? Because if it reminded you, by the way, you are the voice of Keir Egan, right?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Right. I mean, it's sort of like you put Mary Tyler Moore in an absurdist, a Sartre.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
play or something a little bit of no exit I guess because it's it's also a lot of friends of mine they're like I don't want to watch it it's too scary it's a thriller I'm like no it's a comedy but it's also sci-fi it's romantic it's dystopian it's absurd you've called it a workplace comedy is there I feel like it's
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
It also has a, I don't know how old this guy is, but do you remember one of the last Planet of the Apes, like Beyond the Planet, not Beyond, when they're sort of in Century City?
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Battle, Conquest, I don't know. I do remember that. It had that really cheap feel, but also, you know what I mean, in those weird places.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Or Omega Man. It had a little Omega Man. Omega Man, for sure. Yeah, with Laurel Charlton Heston.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
But there's also a sense in the moment right now that big tech controls us, but this is about big corporations controlling us, which is not an uncommon trope. There's been a million movies of that. In this case, it's with cooperation, though not full disclosure, which is what tech is like right now in a lot of ways.
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On with Kara Swisher: Why Ben Stiller Made Severance
Well, it's a maximalization of what is work even for, right? Like, what's the idea of what works even for when you're just a cog in a larger picture of it?
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
I just did that today.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
It's nuts. This is just absolutely nuts. Bo and Yang did a very funny thing on SNL, this idea. They are made for pain.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
The performative defiance on everything, like there's not anywhere they're not losing and being performatively defiant and then dragging people who were not like this, like Marco Rubio, into this performative defiance. That's what I would call it. And it's just, it's like Saul, my son, this, you know, I'm not going to, you know, he does this thing where he does his arms.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
You know, when you see a toddler, like, I'm not going to do anything. Anything, and that's what it feels like. I feel like I'm dealing with a three-year-old or something like that.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
I have a lot. I'm wearing one right now.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
I mean, one of the things that's very astonishing here is that we think we have choices. And that's the problem with this entire thing is we do not have the choices. And this is not being an America like is a bunch of losers. This is self-inflicted damage that we're doing to ourselves.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
You know, exactly, right? We should be running, like just three months ago, you're talking about how the U.S. is dominating everything, right? When the transition was happening three or four months ago. Now we are just doing it to ourselves. And I think most people understand that, but we have to move on. But this is just, what is a fucking disaster?
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
Now, Apple stock and Nvidia stock is up today because they're hoping that these things stay in place, but they might not. And so you might see an impact. Lots of shares are down right now. Apple and Nvidia are up because they've gotten this break, but who knows what's coming? Because this is this idea that he wants to continue to hold over people's head, that he could grab these anytime.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
Anyone who can't get in on this gravy train, you use the Vietnam thing. I used it yesterday on one of our socials. This is like, if you're not on the helicopter out of Saigon, you are fucked. Like, everyone else is fucked. We'll see what political implications that has, but... We'll see where it goes. Anyway, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
When we come back, the antitrust trial that Mark Zuckerberg tries so hard to shut down. And he looked so nice at the inauguration. We'll get to that.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
Where are you, Scott? You're somewhere strange with the wallpaper situation going on.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
How exciting. That's great. I thought you were at Mar-a-Lago or something like that.
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Tariff Twists and Turns, Meta Antitrust Trial, and Blue Origin Girls' Trip
Scott, we're back. Apparently putting on a tie and kissing up to Trump didn't do the job. The FTC is facing off against Meta in a blockbuster antitrust trial getting underway this week. The case goes back to Trump's first term in 2020, if you can believe it, with the government alleging Meta violated competition laws by acquiring Instagram and WhatsApp.
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For its part, Meta says regulators should be supporting innovation and also faces fierce competition from TikTok, Snap and other platforms. I find this to be a little bit of a weak trial, to be honest with you. I think there's others that are stronger, but the trial is expected to last about seven to eight weeks. Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg will be called to stand, among others.
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This is the case that Mark Zuckerberg has been trying to stop. It's interesting that Trump has not intervened. Zuckerberg has visited the White House three times since Trump took office. Meta also donated $1 million to Trump's inaugural fund and settled a lawsuit with Trump for $25 million back in January, of which they did nothing.
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It also just named former Trump advisor Dina Powell McCormick to Meta's board. She's also the wife of Senator David McCormick from Pennsylvania. The FTC had Andrew Ferguson has been vocal about reigning in tech, but also said he'd obey lawful orders if Trump asked him to drop the suit. I think he would. He's been wearing the Trump. Have you seen the gold headed Trump that people are wearing?
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I think it was him. Yeah, I think it was Ferguson that was wearing it. Oh, Brendan Carr was wearing it, excuse me, the head of the FCC. So he said he would follow what Trump says. And thoughts on this? If meta loses, the remedy could be divesting Instagram and WhatsApp.
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The judge who will decide the case for the remedy is James Boasberg, who's been clashing with Trump over deportations and many other issues. Talk about this case a little bit and what you think will happen here. It's going on, so it's not been stopped by any means.
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Yeah, it is kind of crazy.
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I think they're surprised the trial is going forward. Let me just read from the opening statements by the two lawyers. This is Daniel Matheson, the FTC's lead litigator. For more than 100 years, American public policy has insisted firms must compete if they want to succeed. The reason we are here is Meta broke the deal.
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They decided that competition was too hard to be easier to buy out their rivals than compete with them. This is the buy or bury argument. Now, Meta's lawyers, this is a guy named Mark Hansen from a big law firm, Kellogg Hansen. This case is a grab bag of FTC theories at war with fact and at war with law. The facts are going to prove the FTC's theories are all wrong.
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You know, it is a difficult time. I've talked to a lot of lawyers. The FTC would like to divest these companies. Legal experts say it might be hard to win. I'll read directly from the New York Times. That's because the government must prove something unknowable, that Meta, formerly known as Facebook, wouldn't have achieved the same success without the acquisition.
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It's also extremely rare to try to unwind mergers approved years before. So that's one of the difficult ones, even though this is somewhat of a bipartisan effort. It's just for people to know there's three going around to go to trial. The DOJ won its case against Google. A federal judge is hearing arguments about remedies and a potential breakup.
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Because he's a crank. Do you see the latest? I don't even want to go into it.
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And there's a separate trial with the DOJ for monopolizing evidence. ad technology by Google. That's still going on. Justice Department has also sued Apple and the FTC has sued Amazon, accusing companies of antitrust violations. Those trials are coming up later just for people to get a background. But if they do spin it off, it would be unprecedented.
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That was Google. Yeah, Google. Yeah.
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Not just that. All his stuff. He's taking information off. He's saying vaccines aren't necessarily a good thing. He's such a fucking disaster. These people are... setting themselves up for a lot of pain years from now. It's just the murders he is committing right now, as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah, and ad businesses that have been destroyed because they've dominated and stuff like that. These are just harder to do. Just for people, just a little more, we're going to talk about it. Facebook bought Instagram in 2012 for a billion dollars. I covered this. And then 2014, it paid $19 billion for WhatsApp. Both were... crazy prices at the time, although Instagram certainly has yielded a lot.
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There is a paper trail of emails between executives talking about the startups because they were threats. I wrote about that at the time. The lawyers mentioned the documents. Zuckerberg was so paranoid, and he talked about in emails neutralizing a potential competitor, And then Zuckerberg wrote to Sandberg, Messenger isn't beating WhatsApp. Instagram was growing so much faster than us.
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We had to buy them for a billion. So because they're such bad product people at Facebook, and I cannot underscore this enough, they had to buy or bury. It's a very famous phrase in tech, buy or bury. And so that's what the government is alleging here. And also keeping it out of other competitors' hands is another one to build a moat around the monopoly. And so WhatsApp was that for them.
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So it should be really, really interesting, I think. We'll see what happens in this trial. But so far, the Trump administration is not doing pay or play here. They're just letting it go, which is, to me, interesting. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.
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I'm thinking it's Yahoo.
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Tumblr. I broke that story, Mr. Scott Galloway.
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Yeah, it's worth nothing now. I just ran into some Tumblr people. What a great site that was, though. You know what I mean? It really was. I like Tumblr a lot. It was a very innovative site. But you're right. It's just, this is just, come on. This is what Mark Zuckerberg played from the Bill Gates, Bayer Berry album. uh, playbook. Sorry. It's, this is what this is.
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We'll see if they can decide if Facebook will make the argument, meta will make the argument that there's plenty of competition and that, that there's lots and lots, there's, you know, whatever, blue sky, whatever there's. But the fact of the matter is that two things, both for Google and for Facebook, uh, When have you seen a new, fresh social network get built, if not buried?
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Like, you know, Snapchat is doing its level best, but Mark keeps stealing his things because he can't buy it. He couldn't buy it, and so he decided to bury it. That's what they did with Snapchat. And when have you last seen a new search engine that really had any kind of traction? And you were close with the guy who did the one who left Google and tried to do it. It's impossible.
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Okay, all right, okay, all right.
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Nobody can switch. The switch costs are too high. And then when Apple does a deal with these companies and makes them the de facto map or whatever, map or search engine, it sort of puts the nail in the coffin for every other competitor. And the similar thing we just talked about with the tariffs. If you can get an out like Apple did, you're great.
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If you can't like your furniture guy, you're fucked. Like that's really it.
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Yep. Yep. Aqua killed. That's what it is. Yeah. Buy or bear it.
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Why do not they understand me? I'm a genius, right? I've been there.
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And then you left. And then you left.
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You did get a bag of money.
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In this case, Trump ain't playing. So we'll see where it goes from here. One of the things that Meta is doing, I got texted by a Meta person today. They're like, can you believe this? And I'm like, yes.
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Sure we can. And by the way, you know what? If they take off Instagram, good for capitalism if they do. If they take off WhatsApp, good for capitalism. If they spin off YouTube, good for capitalism. We're capitalists, Scott and Kara, because we think that's good for this country.
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It's good for competition, and maybe you'll do a little better in your other things if you have to not just... It's good for the stock price. Yeah, if you can't just buy your wife or husband or whatever, it's good for everybody. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Blue Origin sends an all-female crew into space. We must be very careful here.
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Scott, we're back. El Salvador's president says he won't order the return of a Maryland man named Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was mistakenly deported. They've admitted he is mistakenly deported. President Bukele, who I'm just going to call sleazy club owner, appeared with President Trump at the White House. By the way, he wasn't wearing a tie. I think it was very...
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It wasn't very stately of him to appear looking like he's about to, you know, do an ecstasy dance or something. The two appeared as Trump administration was digging into its heels, refusing to bring Garcia back to the U.S. At one point, Salvador resident Bukele called him a terrorist. There's no proof of how could I bring, how can I smuggle a terrorist back into the countryside?
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Stop it, you unctuous piece of shit. A Supreme Court ruling is directing the government to, quote, facilitate the return. That's a weird word. Now Trump administration is arguing that what facilitate means saying they just need to remove any obstacles to return and not actually bring them back.
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Also, the agenda for today's White House meeting, political reports, a team of defense contractors is pitching the White House on a plan to expand deportations to El Salvador. I'm not sure what's more frightening, the legal implications, the administration and cozying up to another unsavory leader, which this guy is. This one calls himself the world's coolest dictator.
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He's certainly the world's most oily dictator I've seen of late. He just seems just completely just in it for the money. He's very popular, let me say, in El Salvador. I know a lot of people from Salvador, and they... like him because he cleaned up a lot of the gang violence there by just arresting everybody. Very similar to the Philippines with Duterte.
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But of course, he's gone overboard, as they all do, with unlimited power. And so they're just pretending this guy's a terrorist. And Just, you know, when reporters were justifiably asking about this, Trump mocked them. Then Rubio jumped in about that the Supreme Court has no purchase over the way the government decides to do foreign policy, only the president does.
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What a waste of breath that guy has become. So anyway, thoughts, legal implications, world's coolest dictator?
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This is not one of them. All right, Colony Hotel with RFK there. That's all I need to know. I'm not going there.
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It's just... And why wouldn't Bukele take our money and create a Guantanamo there? That's what he's doing. Why wouldn't he take our money? It's good for him. And he doesn't care who is innocent. By the way, it's not his business to care who's innocent or not.
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But if we send someone who's innocent there, and it looks like many of them were or had no criminal background that were sent to these prisons, Venezuelans in particular, because Venezuela won't take these their people back. You can't send them to prison. You just can't. Put them in another country and let them go, I guess, if you have to do with this heinous stuff you're doing.
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But to put them in a prison and they're guilty, I mean, was it 60 Minutes showed up? 75% of them had no criminal background whatsoever. They just had a tattoo to their mother with a crown on it. Just really... I mean, I'm sorry, if that was the case, Pete Hegseth would be in a Salvadoran prison. He's got a lot of tattoos.
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So I just, it's really, the worst thing is them trying to parse what the, after Trump promised he would follow what the Supreme Court said, he's not following what the Supreme Court said. The same thing they're doing, they were supposed to let back in AP into the press cycle. They're not letting, they're barring AP, even though they were ruled against. They just don't do it.
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They're lawless as a government.
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Yeah. I can think of a lot of criminals, rich criminals.
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Good for you. It's very nice here in Washington, too. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. There's also a lot of tech stuff going on, including Meta's big antitrust trial. And of course, women in space. We'll get to that. But first, let's get to tariffs, because first, President Trump now says nobody is getting off the hook on tariffs.
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Except, you know what, Scott? They're profitable in terms of creating prisons and putting them in it. It's profitable for a very different group of people is that we round them up and we put them in these camps, which is what we did with the Japanese and a shameful part of our history.
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You know, a lot of these people are also like, let's figure out who, like the woman who got grabbed off the street. Remember that video with all the people in the masks coming up to her? She has not done, they found out she's done nothing wrong. She's done nothing wrong except write an op-ed that was vaguely and politely against what was happening.
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Like she just, and now foreign students here in this country are so scared. And I've heard from many are scared of saying anything or do anything. And if you have even a minor fear, Like weed violation, you're getting taken. Like whatever excuse they can have, something you wrote or something else, you can get taken. And you should have to appear. It's called habeas corpus, everyone.
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It requires a person in custody to appear before a judge. It's one of the core fundamental rights that protects against arbitrary state action. And he is trying to suspend habeas corpus for ridiculous reasons, for ridiculous and nonsensical reasons, that we're all in danger and we're not. So anyway, world's coolest dictator, you're not cool. You're uncool.
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despite granting exemptions for smartphones, computers, and other electronics late Friday, which is a lie, apparently. Trump posted on True Social on Sunday that products are just moving to a different tariff bucket.
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If you have to call yourself the world's coolest dictator, you're not cool. And speaking of not cool, let's move on to some lighter news, other wastes of time and money. In a giant publicity stunt for Jeff Bezos, six women are launched into space aboard a giant penis.
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Lauren Sanchez, Katy Perry, Gayle King, and three others made a 10-minute trip on Blue Origin's new Shepard rocket and returned safely to Earth, thank goodness. noted science aficionados Oprah Winfrey, Kris Jenner, and Khloe Kardashian watch from the launch site in West Texas. It's the first time an all-female crew has been in space since 1963.
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And yes, Scott, they did fly above the Karman line, just so you know. So, reaction, Scott? Their outfits?
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I'm fine. They can fly up there with their outfits or their slinky outfits, whatever they want to do. Here's what I don't like. Pretending it's a feminist movement. It's just not. It's just a bunch of ladies. And their interviews show that because they're talking about their eye shadow and their eyeliner and etc., They're going up there. It's a total PR stunt. You are not here to save women.
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I'm sorry. If you wanted to save women, you'd be saving the woman who was grabbed off the street. You'd be saving all kinds of things. Or you'd be pushing up against Facebook and saying, we really shouldn't be doing things to young girls that make them feel bad. Like this is not, of all the things you could do to help women, this is not one of them. And that's how I feel about it. But have fun.
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He also says that semiconductor tariffs are coming, but tariff exemptions, or whatever Trump wants to call them, are good news for Apple, NVIDIA, and Dell, at least for the time being. Of course, Scott predicted Apple's reprieve on our Friday episode. Let's listen.
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Migrant. There were some science people on board. There were some science people on board. Whatever there were. But still, it's just a stunt. It's a stunt. It's not feminist. It's just a stunt. And how much fun, Oprah, and all the rest of you have. But there's some serious shit happening. So maybe stop pretending you're doing something you're not.
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Yeah. Yeah. I just don't like the feminist thing. Okay. Okay. Last thing. Sally wasn't openly lesbian, just so you know.
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Closeted lesbian. I was never really in a closet. I wasn't a closet. That's not true. I was not openly lesbian at the beginning of my journey of lesbianity. which started at age four, but we're not going into it with Megyn Kelly. What a she-devil she is.
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Anyway, last thing, Bill Maher says he wasn't high at his White House dinner with President Trump, even though he also claims that Trump was, quote, gracious in measure. The comedian described his March 31st visit with the president during a monologue at the top of his Friday show. People felt it was controversial. The dinner was organized by illustrious statesman Kid Rock.
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Bill said that he and musician, quote, Cher believe that there's got to be something better than hurling insults from 3,000 miles away, although Bill's pretty fucking good at that. Here's what he had to say about his interaction with Trump.
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Okay. I'm going to be on Bill Maher's show in a couple of weeks. I think you are too. Are you going to be on?
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We talked about it. I'm glad you did that.
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Yeah, you're a great panelist there. Go ahead. You start. You start. I have some thoughts, too.
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Yeah, I agree. I agree.
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Well, here's what I think happened. He was getting very sharp on Trump, very sharp, very tough. And they decided to neuter him a little bit by being charming. I think he has been doing some really, you know, he has been, he tries to do the down the middle, contrary thing a lot of the time, but he has been the sharpest attacks on Trump among comics, which there are many, by the way.
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So I think they were trying, I thought they were trying to neuter him and it worked in that regard. Now, you know, look, I think it's right to go to the dinner. That would be really interesting. But to say, oh, look, he's charming in person. Like, I'm sure Goebbels was thrilling at a cocktail party, my friend. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, sure. Yeah. Lots of people, by the way.
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Mussolini was so much fucking fun. He'd put a hat, he'd put a lampshade on his head and we'd dance all night. And, you know, and, you know, the Tarantella, I like, I don't know what to say. Like, I just am like, so, so Bill, I won't bring this up with Bill if he lets me on now, but was he, was he lying to you?
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at dinner or to the world which one because he is a terrible person publicly terrible the stuff he did today terrible um and it's not there's nothing charming about keeping a person who is unjustly jailed in jail and then laughing about it and then haranguing reporters about it there's nothing you know charming about most of the things there's nothing charming about ruining your friend's business there's nothing charming about it so i just i
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Honestly, that's what I kept thinking of. I'm sure any nasty piece of shit is charming in person, and there are a lot of them that I have dealt with. You should have gone, but don't give me this, he's charming, because he's not. He's just not charming. The minute you go after him again, which I hope and pray you will, and I know you will, actually, because... He doesn't pull punches a lot.
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Sometimes he does, but he doesn't really as a comic. So the minute you go after him again, he's like, I was so nice to him. I made him dinner. I showed him off the White House. I showed him my bedroom, whatever. He's going to come after you. So that's, I don't know, whatever. Anyway. But I probably would you go to dinner if he asked us? Do you think he'd ever ask us to just give a fuck about us?
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I just wouldn't be as polite in person. I wouldn't be like, oh, hey, can I have the role? That's the kind of thing. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see what happens. I'll tell this to Bill's face when I see him. Anyway, Scott, one more quick, because I do that, Bill. I say things to your face that I say in front of your back, behind your back, anywhere near your back.
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So in the interim for that, you were absolutely correct. Very good.
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I know. I'm glad you didn't go, Scott Galloway. Now I like you even more. Ugh, is that possible? Is that possible? Good for you, Scott Galloway. Good for you. I know you like being on that show, too.
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I know. Have him back, Bill. Don't be a douche and also have him back. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for Wins and Fails.
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Yes, I know. So what is the deal? Because Letnick started, everyone thought Letnick was off script, but then Trump underscored it and added more confusion to something that was already confusing and seems very oligarchic and sudden and shifting. Apple was trying very hard to deal with this. They're airlifting 600 tons of iPhones from India last week to reportedly beat the tariffs.
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Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. May I start?
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Let me just say two things. Television is so happy place for me these days, watching different things. And this weekend, there's two shows, G20 with Viola Davis, where she plays a kick-ass woman president who, like, kicks ass. They go to the G2 Summit. There's a South African guy who takes over all the G20. It's called G20, excuse me. And she kicks ass and wins out.
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It's like Harrison Ford's Air Force One. And let me just say, I love Viola Davis. I love her kicking ass and killing South African terrorists. Or maybe they're from Australia. I don't know they have that accent. So good. It was so bad and so good at the same time. It was Air Force One, but Viola Davis. So there was some good acting in there, too. Fan-fucking-tastic.
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Second one, Hacks, the season premiere. Again, two women, Hannah Einder and, oh, God, I'm blanking. Jean Smart. Jean Smart. Oh, my God. It has risen a level of, like, it was already one of my favorite shows.
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This season, the two of them, at some point I'm like, just kiss you two because they're going, they're insults of each other and they're going back and forth. And then there's a poignant moment in the first two episodes about heartbreak. And I just love this show so much. So thank you. Win, win, win, win, win with these badass women, I have to say, and they're just wonderful.
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This flip-flopping is really bad. Carolyn Levitt, of course, it goes against what they were saying. We're going to make things in the U.S. Carolyn Levitt, Tracy Flick said over the weekend that Trump is still committed to seeing more products and components made in the U.S. She noted Trump's direction tech companies are hustling to onshore their manufacturing United States as soon as possible.
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The fail is, obviously, Doge falling short of its goal. It was supposed to save $2 trillion and it went to $1 trillion. Now, Elon said in a meeting, that it's $150 billion. Dave Fahrenthold, as always, he's now at the New York Times, showed the math to be wrong. Again, that is probably even less money that he's saving, but we don't even know how much he's costing for the savings.
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That's not in this. So, He's not saving any money, and he's causing incredible harm and cutting things without thinking about it and doing it surgically. So we're not benefited as a people on stuff. We should reform government as everybody thinks. So what an incredible— waste of our time and energy to have this ridiculous person prance all over the place saying he's saving money.
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And then of course, he's not delivering. It's the same thing that this is a theme of his life right now is over-promising and under-delivering, whether it's the cyber truck, whether it's autonomous cars. This is just such a ridiculous thing, this Doge thing, given how much energy and time and pain it has caused people unnecessarily. That is my fail.
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He was with Trump the other night at that stupid WWE.
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Carolyn, sit down, you 27-year-old ignoramus. But what do you think about this flippity-floppity-flippity-flop?
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Yes, true. They're going to get all the avocados in Canada, and Mexicans are going to get all the good maple syrup. Do you hear that, people? Finished. Avocado toast and pancakes are done for us as Americans.
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I just renovated my house. I'm so pleased that I did it last year. My contractor said it would have been double.
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For what? Which show? Which show?
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Yeah, good. Well, I heard you have, by the way, you have another podcast you didn't tell me about?
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With the man, the men thing with Scaramucci and Markovitch.
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Yeah, it was good for your book coming out. Good. I'm very excited. You cat around on me quite a bit. That's okay. I don't mind. I just want to know about it.
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I'm ignoring it completely. I would like to make your book, like, bestseller.
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I want to make your book atomic.
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She defied gravity. Anyway, let me just say, for one thing Scott said, there's a lot of reporting from Rolling Stone and Puck that he's annoying people at the White House. They question if he's high. And Republicans on Capitol Hill are no longer terrified of him either.
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That said, Scott, only thing is he's leaving, the Washington Post reported today incorrectly, that he's leaving Doge staffers in high-power jobs at multiple federal agencies. So he's not out of there. He's like mold. He's putting all kinds of stuff in the security implications and...
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Other people you don't know about that don't look like Elon Musk will still remain problematic for our country in those positions. So just remember that. All right. Okay. There you have it. Those are good. But please, for the love of God, watch Viola Davis kick some ass. It's so good. It's so good.
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No, no, no. She couldn't, guys couldn't have done this. This was just, trust me, watch it and then call me back. Just, I'm just telling you, I'm just telling you, you'll love it. It's so much fun. Like, cause she's won, she's won an Oscar. Isn't she? She won an Oscar, whatever. She deserves an Oscar. She won an Emmy, an Oscar, whatever. This woman is like top actor, just chewing up the scenery.
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It's so enjoyable. She did one, a TV show years ago called How to Get Away with Murder, which you should watch again.
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where she also chewed up the scenery with her Oscar-winning acting abilities.
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She's so talented, but I love that she's doing this and just punching people in the face with the machine, the whole thing. It's fantastic. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
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Also, Pivot is up for a Webby Award for Best Business Podcast, and we are asking for your vote today. And some of other, your other podcasts are also up. So vote for Prof G. I don't know if Ahn is, but in any case, vote for us. Go to vote.webbiawards.com to cast your ballot. We won last year and we're hoping for a twofer.
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Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, I just did a whole panel on tariffs with trade law expert Raj Bala, Pucks Bill Cohen, and Catherine Rampell from the Washington Post. Let's listen to a quick clip.
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Anyway, it was a great interview. All of them had different things to add.
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I call him Bad Scott. He's Bad Scott.
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Yeah, defying gravity. Yeah. Anyway, we love her. All right, Scott, that's another show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
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The 85 is for what? To pay for the things now? Or what is the 85 for?
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Unless they're given a reprieve.
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And wrapped, right? Whatever, if there happened to be clothing or something like that.
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Right, right. And they're not getting, and the $85 million this guy has to pay is going to the government, but it's now going to be sucked up in interest rate payments. It's just like, so we're going to lose so much money every which way you lose. So how companies proceed is impossible at this point. What do you do? What do you just stop payments? That's what you stop doing.
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And then you lay people off and then you hunker down until this lunatic is either he loses at the midterm and he gets investigated out the yin yang, which he should be, honestly, or it's rendered impossible for him to do anything. That's saying his lawlessness continues. He's defying the Supreme Court on immigration. He's defying everybody on every single thing. And also, by the way,
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He doesn't weigh 224 pounds. He weighs like at least 250 pounds. Anyway, that was just his thing. Let's talk China then, because this is an opportunity, as we've talked about with President Xi. He currently is visiting Vietnam and other countries in Southeast Asia, presenting China as a reliable ally and trading partner.
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China also spent its exports on a wide range of critical minerals and magnets. China is holding steady here and they are willing to endure pain, but they're also doing the correct thing, which is to visit partners and show themselves to be reliable partners. What will Trump do next? Because I see him more in this press conference in the Oval Office. He's defying the Supreme Court.
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He's defying the Fed. He's defying Trump. Anyone he can defy, and when he makes a good decision, he defies his good decisions. So what do companies do and how do you look at China's role here? Because I think they're benefiting enormously from his idiocy. I don't know what else to call it. Stupidity.
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He hasn't gone after Bannon that much. He goes after any one person on any day at any time, like ridiculously with hammer and tongs. He hasn't really attacked Steve Bannon. It's more than Bannon. There's Charlie Kirk. All the MAGA crowd is sort of anti-Elon, which is interesting. And I would wonder what J.D. Vance thinks right about now. He said something counter to Trump on Sunday.
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I had Jihan there. I had a whole bunch of friends there. It was really fun. It was lovely.
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He's like the wife that got shoved aside, right?
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Talking about the couch fucking and the cat lady and everything.
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Don't forget couch fucking, everybody. Go ahead.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, he's calling Musk truly evil, which is incredible.
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No. Yoel Roth was evil. I had a heart seething with hate. Okay? Let's try to keep that straight.
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And enjoy seething bagels at your house. No, he goes, he is a truly evil guy, a very bad guy. I made it my personal thing to take this guy down, which is fascinating. I'm like, what's happening here? It's like, and this is the quote, he should go back to South Africa.
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Why do we have South Africans, the most racist people on earth, white South Africans, we have them making any comments at all, which goes on forever. in the United States. He said Musk had the maturity of a little boy, which I'm kind of for him on that one. I would agree. But it's just interesting. It's not just Laura Loomer and him.
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It's a whole panoply of MAGA people who don't think he's loyal to MAGA, that he's opportunist. Oh, MAGA, we're so sorry. We told you. We warned you. We warned you. Anyway, there you have it. We do think Elon's going to beat him, though. So there we have it. But Bannon, never count that guy out. He's such a like, I call him, you know, the unmade bed, but he's really a toxic unmade bed.
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And so he has his skills. But exactly. Let's root for neither of them. Okay, let's get to our first big story. firefighters continue to battle Los Angeles wildfires, which have killed at least 24 people and destroyed entire neighborhoods.
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No, no lesbians. Just me and my wife were the only lesbians in attendance. And Jihan was the gay man. Jihan was here. He's been here before. I had a full panoply of sexual interests. Interesting. Interesting. Anyway, thank you so much. The kids loved it. They love on your climbing. They love the whole thing. We had a nice time. Went to see Gypsy, which was great in New York.
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High winds are expected to pick up again through the middle of the week, which won't help containment efforts, although they're getting a handle on quite a bit of it. Also not helping, the onslaught of misinformation about the fires, including false claims that Governor Gavin Newsom's policies, Alex Jones' conspiracy theories, and a circulation of so much AI crap. It still is a...
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government disaster in terms of fire management. It always is. But this is a decades-long problem in California around overbuilding, around climate issues, about not building the right stuff there. They're very stringent on earthquake building. I did that myself, not so much with wildfires.
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I didn't have to do anything when I was doing a renovation around wildfires, but I certainly had to do a lot around earthquakes. X was successful. Meta just got rid of fact-checkers. These everyone's having to like even the head of HHS said you cannot beat social media outrage and falsehoods anymore. And so it's one of the things they're worried about.
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And of course, at the very top is Donald Trump. There's been threats about withholding aid from California unless they get in line, which I honestly, California gives more than it takes from this country. It's repulsive. You don't do that to any part of this country when there's a crisis. Thoughts? Top line thoughts, Scott Galloway?
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And then he got attacked for that. He went on Pod Saves America and a couple of things to talk about that, to dispel things. And then like, how dare he be on podcasts? I was like, he's dispelling misinformation. You start it. Like it was it was nuts.
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Right. Or all kinds of manners of conspiracy theories. There's like 90 of them. It's really crazy. And some people are really normal people who are right now emotionally bereft. are buying some of it, right? They're getting to people at their worst. And when they're in houses, they're vulnerable. And then filling them full of bile and anger does nothing to help the situation.
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It's a musical with Audra McDonald. It's an enormous hit on Broadway.
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It's really, I've had some friends who have said this and this. I was like, no, that's not true. I mean, one thing that seems true is these power lines were not shut off quickly enough during what was terrible. And they don't have the newest power lines anymore. that don't bend and break. These are something we can now go and say, we need to fix this. We need to fix this.
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But to be, you know, one of the other things is that the reason it took so long is because California is more stringent on certain plants and things. And so it takes longer. Maybe we need to fix that, right? But you can't blame it for nature, right? which these winds are, from friends of mine say it's just, they were the strongest winds they've ever seen.
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I love Broadway. You got to go to Broadway sometime. Audra McDonald, she's the Patti LuPone of this time. She's just amazing and she was great. Gypsy's about a narcissistic toxic mother and a daughter she turns into a stripper. Yeah, it's about strippers. Oh, there you go. There you go. Fan dancing, things like that. It was great. It was great. How was your weekend?
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However they got there, climate change, historically they've been, those winds, if you've ever been in them, are insane. There's been a lot more wind in San Francisco lately, like, by the way, disturbing amounts of winds. A tree fell on my house, never in 25 years has that happened. And it wasn't even a Santa Ana wind, which are really kind of, you know, whipsawing.
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So I just don't know what you would do if you were a public official.
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Can I ask a question? One of the things that is so much wonder, and by some of it's been like this reel-in that I used to go take the kids to all the time is gone. All these burned down. All these amazing places have burned down. And let me just tell you, for those who'd never been to Pacific Palates and parts of Pasadena or Altadena, they're such beautiful places. They're
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Some of these houses, it makes the Will Rogers estate, as I said, is so beautiful. What would you take, Scott? I was asking this to Amanda and everyone at the brunch this weekend. What would you take if you had two hours or an hour?
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You escaped to the warm, correct?
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Can I put these facts in for you before you get to that? Sure. Because another crisis involves insurance. J.P. Morgan estimates the total L.A. County losses could be close to $50 billion, while losses insurers will have to pay could top $20 billion.
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California has seen major insurers pull back on coverage in recent years due to what one company called rapidly growing catastrophe exposure that's happening in many states, including Florida, too. Many of these people, their houses are their savings, their equity. So talk a little bit about insurance here.
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And more. There's more could come. Because they haven't found everybody.
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Did they call you Kara Swisher? Is that what happened?
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I have to say that the pile on is so disturbing in every way. It's like, can you please stop, you people? There's not a moment they don't, everything is DEI. When there was a plane crash, oh, it was DEI. There's not a disaster. And let me just say to people like Elon Musk, you don't have any fucking solutions. You just have a lot of frigging complaints, right?
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And it's not like you immediately go to your same grab bag of hate that really doesn't matter here. And you're taking advantage of people. who have a propensity to be very upset and look for blame when what they need is help from people like Jose Andres and the governor and everybody else. So shut the fuck up, some of them. Anyway, that goes to me about sort of manliness.
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You seem shorter on podcasts. No way.
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He's done a great job here, I have to say.
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Oh, I like that. That's nice.
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Right. Or just show up like Jose Andres with the food and everything else. Just help.
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Just for News Not Noise, their tagline is, we give you information, not a panic attack, which I thought was kind of good. I do. I will say, let me just say, aside from crazy Patrick Soon-Shong, who's the thirstiest publisher in American history, who's weird and being saying nasty shit, his reporters, the reporters he employs, they're not his reporters. They fucking hate him.
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are doing an astonishing job in Los Angeles. The local stations are doing an astonishing... I've done a lot of watching on the internet. Great job. A lot of information, a lot of this one tracker that they use, the Watch app, has been like a godsend to people. There's a lot of helpful stuff online. And I have to say, the Washington Post has done a great job.
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The New York Times has done... The Wall Street Journal has done a spectacular job. And so the coverage has been helpful, informational. you know, they have to cover the misinformation angle of it. But I have to say, good job. Firefighters, number one.
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And you, of course, showed pictures of the flyers who are flying over Los Angeles, dropping water, which are astonishing, beautiful, and also so spectacular. And it is about manliness. I'm sure there are some women flying those planes, by the way. But let's go on a quick break, because we're going to talk about that, what it is to be a man. And the people who are
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bitching and moaning are not men, let's just say. When we get back, Mark Zuckerberg explains why masculine energy is the future. Well, his kind not, but we'll see what Scott has to say about this when we get back.
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Oh, that's nice. I get you are my inspiration or you are my wife's inspiration or you're my husband's inspiration. That's what I get.
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U-Haul, right? The first one.
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Very good. Everyone. That's like the oldest lesbian joke in the book.
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Scott, we're back. Mark Zuckerberg's MAGA makeover continues with a return visit to Mar-a-Lago last week and an appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast, possibly the most embarrassing one I've ever seen. Over the course of a three-hour chat with Rogan, Zuckerberg bashed his own company's fact-checking process, the Biden administration's push for content moderation, and Apple for lack of innovation.
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Amidst the news that Meta ended its DEI efforts, Zuckerberg lamented the rise of culturally neutered companies. Let's listen to him explain why masculine energy is so important.
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It sounds like this guy has divorce vibes to me. I don't know if that's all over the... Like, what is... You just... Look how he juxtaposed them. I have three sisters, no brothers, three daughters, no sons. And then he doesn't say, this is great. He says, and, you know, we kind of need masculine energy again. It sounds like he feels like a fucking $10 or something's happened here.
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Oh, that's good. Okay. I wasn't getting that one.
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And then makes no sense. I'd forgotten what a bad thinker he was until I listened to this interview. I've interviewed him many times. As I'm interviewing him most of the time, I'm thinking, this guy has no... intellectual heft in any way or an ability to think through a clear thought. Now, and he certainly doesn't anymore.
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So this was one big, I don't know, you know, puss ball of you need some therapy, dude. That's all I kept thinking when I was listening to it. But Scott, have you been talking to Mark about masculine energy? And what would you say?
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Yeah, that's Jimmy Kimmel.
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Oh, but Scott, they're neutered. Oh my God. Fuck you, Mark. Go ahead.
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Yeah, he missed is that part?
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Or women. Let's just say that.
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I'm not so sure. Look at Lauren Sanchez can fly a mean helicopter, right? I mean, just... Okay, but let's just talk about reality.
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But you're talking about the service of others. I want you to take apart how he said it, the way he put together the women in his life without any praise and then sort of had this sort of, you know, this like... shitty little stew of other things around companies with jet... Where do you use neutered? Like, everything is about the dick for this guy. And I kept thinking, small dick.
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That's what I kept thinking the whole time. Who would talk like this who has girl daughters? Women can be aggressive. Welcome to me. Mark Zuckerberg, just for everyone knows, ran away from me at most encounters we've had. Run. Physically runs away from me. Like, he has no masculine of what he's talking about, but... whatever, I mean, I am aggressive, but that's another story.
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All right. Can I put a little note in here? I think feminine energy is protective, too. Like, I can't think of a stronger energy than a mother's energy, for example. I would kill people. I'd fucking kill them.
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Right, exactly. So the fact that he's defining this by masculine and female, I don't even know what he's talking about. It has no role. It has no role. It's like, are you a good person and a strong protector of people, male or female, Mark? There's no such thing. It sounds like he just literally has been such a beta his whole life.
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And let me tell you, Mark Zuckerberg is a beta, no matter how you slice it, who wants to be an alpha. Yeah. I'm an alpha, Mark. You're a beta. Just so you know, that's how it's going for you. But you have to clothe yourself and you have to do your fighting and you have to shoot, you know, buffalo and you got to cook meat. This is all such bullshit cosplaying about what a man is.
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Oh, no, Scott. Dredging up pedophilia.
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It's now become... What's interesting is someone said, I'm so glad we're back to hating Mark Zuckerberg. I do not hate him. I find him pathetic. That's absolutely true. But it's just, I don't even understand how someone could... It feels like the midlife crisis. I thought Jeff Bezos was having one.
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This guy is in the middle of something that's personal and has nothing to do with it, but it has implications that are larger. And let me go into this. We're learning about some of the new guidelines or lack thereof. Thank you, Joel Kaplan. I'm not going to call you a piece of shit, but that's what I'm thinking. With this hateful conduct policy, statements that are permitted, including saying,
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Gays aren't normal and trans people aren't real. They're mentally ill, calling trans people it. Meta employees are voicing their concerns about these moderation changes. One employee described it as total chaos internally. Another, dozens of people, one of whom I'm going to have on, on, on. said they're incandescently angry about what the need to do this is. I don't think Mark will change.
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He's gotten permission from his new Igor, Joel Kaplan, to do so. They're not only getting rid of DEI. That is a debate to have. Amazon, McDonald's, and others are pulling back. But at the same time, Apple's board, however, is recommending that voters vote no on the shareholder proposal to eliminate companies' DEI programs. They've said this is an important part of our culture.
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Oh, God. No touching. No touching allowed. Oh, my God. Yeah, you're getting emotional. We're going to talk a lot about that today. By the way, I am, in fact, going to Miami this weekend to get away from the inauguration, which is coming.
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Costco is also pushing back against anti-DEI efforts. I'm going to play something that I did in an interview with Laverne Cox, activist and actor.
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That was highly depressing to me because I used to live in stealth and it's a terrible place to be. But I'd love your thoughts on what's happening here within this company in particular in that. And then, of course, attacking Apple.
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No, at Facebook, all of them at once moving in all these areas that are not welcomed by a lot of people and is the minimum they can do to have some safety on their platform without letting people not be people. But the only thing they targeted was LGBTQ stuff.
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All right. Okay. What about why they're doing this at Meta right now?
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I don't think it's good.
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By the way, I threw out some of your grotesque food that you just left there.
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Can I get away just from shareholder? What do you think is happening to these men? They're not just shareholder. There's something else happening to them. I can't fucking figure it out. I can tell you a dozen people who were utterly normal who send me crazy shit about trans people, about vaccines, about all these people who are completely normal. And now it's beyond shareholder.
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I did. I was like, oh, he's such a man.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
I just say I clean up your refrigerator. I do that to everybody's refrigerator, but it looked like it was going to turn. I don't mind.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
But why have all these, all tech, all, all tech, like except if they work for W, the Worldwide Wrestling Organization or something like that, something has happened to so many of them. And their love of conspiracy theories, it's like they've smoked their own dope a little too long and it's laced with fentanyl or something.
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There's something at the top here of these, you know, this Troika, Bezos. It's the loudest ones.
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I think it's the loudest ones.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
Yeah. And Amanda was like, should you be cleaning this refrigerator? I said, I have to. It's a must. We didn't take any of your clothes, although Amanda commented, if you're just starting to shed things, just leave a pile for us. We admired some of your clothing that was strewn about.
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I don't get it. What I don't get, and this is the one part, and this is a personal message for me, is all of you have children. And Mark, you have three daughters. You are not a good parent right now to your daughters. What you're doing is irreprehensible to your children. And I hope...
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You're going to regret what you're doing right now and the words that are coming out of your mouth for reasons I don't know. Get off social media. Get off of interviews. Everything you say seems stupider and stupider. And it's shameful what you're doing. You know, if you had sons, I think it's shameful. But it's particularly shameful when you have three daughters. It just is. I can't even begin.
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And Elon Musk, forget it, how he talks about trans people as a trans daughter. It just... But focus on your families maybe a little more and less on your gold chains and your haircuts and whatever the fuck else you want to do. Anyway, we'll take one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first?
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
May I interject? There's a movie that you will like, Scott. It's called Always, and it's with Richard Dreyfuss and Holly Hunter, along with Audrey Hepburn. And it's a 1989 film about an aerial firefighter who risks his life in fighting forest fires. That's interesting. And it's... You should watch it. He does not make it, but it's all about that. And it's a wonderful movie. John Goodman's in it.
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I think you would, you need to watch that tonight if you can. It's called Always, 1989. I love this movie. It's a wonderful movie. And it's about just this topic. And there's a lot of technical stuff in it about aerial firefighting, which is really incredibly hard, astonishingly risk-taking and for the service of others, as you said.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
Well, Alex Swisher likes to wear nice things, if you have any money to give him. I think Alex is too big. Oh, he's actually—well, no, I guess you're right. He's too tall. He's not that different from your build, is he? He kind of has your build. Just more muscles, obviously. I'm L. You're L. Okay, all right, I'll say it.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
And be mixed use would be great because there were mobile homes and middle-class homes and really rich homes there. That was what I found really. I mean, they all, prices went up for all of them, but boy, was that a mixed environment. Didn't you find that? That was always surprising to me.
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Can you please watch this movie? It's all about how they do it and how they do drops and how they train drops. And it's really, I know so much about arrow firefighting from this movie. You will love it and you will cry at the end. like a little lady, like a little man, because men cry, everybody. Masculine energy is about crying, too.
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My win is the Justice Department has released a report correcting the flawed record on the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. I am so thrilled they did it before Trump got in office that he would have quashed it, confirming it was not just mob violence, but a coordinated military-style attack to ruin what was one of the wealthiest black communities in the U.S. I read the whole report. This is a topic.
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incident was so hidden for so long. And it's gotten a lot of press in the recent years. And there's been some cases about reparations and everything else. But what happened here was heinous. This was a thriving, economically smart, fast forward, wealthiest Black community in the U.S. that they decimated. And I'll tell you, the pictures look, they burnt it down. They burnt it down.
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And it was over a unclear situation between a black man and a white woman. And obviously, which is all these things start like that. But I recommend reading it. And I commend the Justice Department for releasing the report, especially now before that. So that's, you know, my win. I think my fail is these billionaires and their You know what?
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All right, we're talking about men right now because we've got to get to that today, including Mark Zuckerberg mansplaining masculine energy. How misinformation about the LA Fires is creating more problems on, no, not just on X. It's now brought to you by Facebook. So we have a lot to talk about masculine. This is a masculine show. We're going to do a masculine show. And no young boys' choirs.
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You have the most money of anyone in the history of the planet, and you're miserable people, and you don't bring anything but misery on people. You do not help people. Stop peacocking around. You are tiny, small men. right now and you couldn't be smaller and you have the opportunity.
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When Elon Musk attacked McKenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos' ex-wife, for being a danger or Melinda Gates for being a danger, that's what they do. You know what McKenzie Scott did? She doubled her giving. She doubled. That's what masculine energy is or whatever they want to call it.
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Yep, for free. He did it before. He did that before in many other cases.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
You can take it. Let me just say, you know what you should do, Mark? Get off fucking Joe Rogan and write a check. Just write a check, you piece of shit. Just write a check. Shut up. We don't need any more of your outfits or your chains. Write a check. Keep your mouth shut and stop being such an endless pathetic. whatever you happen to be, write a check. That's what we want from you.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
And that's all we want. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. Go get a therapist and apologize to your daughters at this as soon as possible. Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more.
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I know, but let me just say, I am because I have masculine fucking energy and I don't like people taking it.
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Which one of us has more masculine energy? You or I?
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Scott will cry at the drop of a fucking hat. And I do not. So let's just say we know of what we speak here and we represent it. And those of us with masculine energy would like you all to shut the fuck up. That's what I would say. Read us out.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
But first, as we tape on Monday, the Supreme Court seems to be leaning towards upholding the TikTok ban. They heard oral arguments on Friday, with justices seeming more skeptical of TikTok's arguments that the First Amendment banned Congress from enacting the law. Some takeaways. The justices pointed out that ByteDance, a Chinese company, does not have First Amendment rights.
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Justice Brown Jackson said she saw the law as less about speech than association. I thought this was really smart. she's so smart, like barring Americans from associating with foreign terrorist groups for national security reasons.
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Justices Kagan and Gorsuch together suggested that everyone knows China's behind TikTok and expressed interest in less heavy-handed approach, like a warning label, which was interesting. But it seemed like it was all over the place. This was not a partisan thing in any way, which is exactly what the issue is in Congress, too. It's surprising people are for it and against it.
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I think they're supposed to rule on Wednesday, I understand. So any prediction?
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
Well, here's the thing. I've heard of this thing. I don't remember the answer in that case, but he could not enforce it. But that doesn't mean Apple and Google won't do it anyway, because I think over Trump, they would take the Supreme Court side. I don't think they need to be If Trump says don't do it, he can't say that, right? He has more limited things than you think.
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This is a law passed by Congress, and I think the Supreme Court tends to respect those, especially around national security issues. And so I'm going with they're going to say do it and they're not going to delay it. They're not going to let Trump get his dirty mitts around it, even though he will have his dirty mitts around it because it's the question of where it sells to.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
And that could be, and his administration through all kinds of different organizations that look at these things. And he's been through this before. The previous time he was doing the executive order and was trying to do that Microsoft Walmart. Do you remember that deal? It was Microsoft Walmart, Ellison. There was a whole... really odd group of people.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
But I think he's going to try to advantage Musk and Ellison, but then you see Mark Zuckerberg coming in because he doesn't particularly want Musk to have an advantage here. This is good for Facebook if TikTok suffers. There's all kinds of stuff. And he was just down in Palm Beach. Mark went again. We'll talk about him in a second. So I think it'll be interesting.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
And then there's a couple of the bidders I've talked to. And one of them who I consider one of the smarter ones are among the different names. There's about six different names. They were like, there's no sale here. There's nothing going to happen. The Chinese won't let it happen. Then there's the whole Chinese reaction to it when it's finally passed and what the Chinese will do.
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Because most people feel without the algorithm, it's It's just a brand.
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Probably a small amount?
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Right, they can get it over the top, you know.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
I do think Apple and Google will go with whatever the Supreme Court says. And so that will hinder a lot of people, like the regular, like not everybody. And of course, there's the creators who are up in arms because they make some good living off of TikTok. And if you recall, TikTok did those ads.
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You go right to heroin with them. You're like pot, weed, heroin.
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I'm super excited for that.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
Can I just tell you, I'm going to do an interpretive dance of our relationship for you.
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It'll be so beautiful. I will dance for you. I shall. On heroin, it will become a lot better. I'm a terrible dancer. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I feel like they're going to go with the ban, and I don't think they're going to delay it. And I think that Trump will try to manipulate it. That's really weird. And then we'll see.
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Yeah, it was good. They were all different and smart on a lot of things. There were some little joking about TikTok, little joking from the Supreme Court, little digital joking. I thought it was good. It looked like, you know, just as with not letting Trump off the hook in New York, I think Roberts is taking a little more control over things, seems like it.
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Well, we clean up nice from an orgy, I'll tell you that. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I just got back from a lovely weekend at Scott's apartment where I threw a party. Thank you.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
And it looks like Amy Coney Barrett's the swinger, kind of, so to speak. Oh, yeah, she went against Trump on this vote, and everyone's after her. And speaking of after her, one of the people after her, Steve Bannon, really said she was a traitor, essentially. In the Trump decision around the New York case, he didn't get any time, guys.
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Yes, yes, ex-con. And now, felon, Donald Trump. Fotis is the word. But it's great.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
Yes, that's right. Exactly. from South Africa as problematic and racist. He was accusing them of being racist. It was sort of weird. It was such a weird thing. Populism versus racism.
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Yeah. I feel like there's a conspiracy theory. I'm with Bannon on this one. No, I'm not. I'm never with Bannon.
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I know, I know. They're Americans. They're Americans.
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Zuck's Masculine Energy, Bannon vs. Musk, and Wildfires Misinformation
I understand. It used to be, for sure. So, in any case, he is attacking them. So, you know, there's a Team Steve or Team Elon. How about none of the above? But it's a really interesting fight. And he doesn't want him to have privileges to get onto the campus, the White House campus, to get this blue pass, it's called. Thoughts? I mean, who's going to win this fight? Probably Elon.
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90 days. All this 90-day nonsense. I mean, what if you're a business? Tell me, if you're creating a business, how do you know? I guess you're relieved that now we're not being insane and ruining, but it's already wrecked a bunch of people's businesses. It's thrown planning out the window. And what do you do? Because you don't know what this lunatic's going to do next. And I don't mean China. Yeah.
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Much of the beginning of the flight, having me figure out who the Pope was for her. She's, you know, quite Catholic and carrying lots of newspapers, constantly moving throughout the entire thing. I mean, she's in really good shape for someone of her age, of any age, actually. So it was fun. We had a good time. She says hi.
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I heard that they were doing that. They were keeping up sales across the globe. And then the soccer will probably rally because of this, because we're getting out of idiocy. It looks like Scott Besson's just a cleanup lady, like on aisle five, essentially, correct?
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah. Anyway, President Trump is heading out on the first major overseas trip of his second term this week with stops in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates, presumably to collect new bags of money. The trip comes as Trump administration plans to accept a $400 million luxury Boeing 747-800 from Qatar, possibly the largest foreign gift. In U.S.
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history, the plane will be retrofitted to be used as Air Force One, which I don't even want to think about the security implications, and donated to Trump's presidential library when he leaves office, allowing him to still use it. Despite all the ethical questions being raised, Trump called it a very public and transparent transaction on truth social.
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And Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt, Tracy Flick, who was just... so bad, said in a statement, any gift given by a foreign government is always accepted in full compliance with all applicable laws. It's the griftiest grift yet. I mean, this is just... I'll note the Trump family struck a deal to build a luxury golf resort in Qatar a few weeks ago.
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I mean, it's all in plain sight, I guess, is the only good thing we could say about it, all the billions they're making and taking from these Arab countries. And he wants to call the Gulf, the Persian Gulf, the Gulf of Arabia now, another one. I mean... Why does he just go there in his plane and live there for the rest of his life?
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I don't know what else to say, because was he looking for a place to go if he ever gets convicted of anything? I don't honestly know what's happening here.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Well, she was wearing a very comfortable but fashionable outfit, I would say. I would say very, but comfortable. And one of the things that struck me was how many people came up to her. I know you have antipathy towards her, but most people don't. It was astonishing how many people gave her notes and handed her little things saying they loved her and this and that. It was interesting.
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It's all about the end times, just so you know. I have relatives... I hear a lot about the, do you know what I did? The bumper sticker my brother made for my relatives who are very, very charismatic Christians, I guess I would call them. He made them, they're lovely people, but they have varying degrees of religiosity.
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But he made my aunt a bumper sticker that said, when the rapture comes, can I have your stuff?
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
He's in Portland visiting his son right now. He's good.
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Yeah, one of his sons, yeah. The other lives in Australia, and his daughter is in the Dominican Republic right now teaching.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
He's working on electrical engineering, I think.
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One of them, yeah. I can't say what Alex is doing because he signed an NDA, but Alex is doing an energy-related internship this summer.
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He is. Don't tell him. He loves you. Do not say that. He's listening right now.
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He's a very, very, I love that kid. We had a great weekend.
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No, I just think he's going to be a billionaire and we should, speaking of being scared of people, you should.
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He's going to take care of us, you and I, when we're older.
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I feel like he's going to build something really significant.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah, he really does. Anyway, we can't say what he's doing. He's under NDS.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I love that about him. Anyway, Trump, you're a grifty grifter. That's all. I don't know what to say. I don't know if we can stop him, but he's like piling up the grift like you can't believe. All right, when we get back, how the new pope is riling up the MAGA world, and we'll also discuss some of our favorite pope memes, because I love a pope meme.
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Scott, we're back. The Pope Leo XIV, the first American pope, laid out a vision of his papacy over the weekend, identifying AI as one of the most critical issues facing humanity. It was interesting. He was also sporting an Apple Watch, his first official mass. He also seems to be a very techie pope. Let's invite him on the show. That would be great.
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And while many have cheered the election of American pope, the MAGA folks are not happy. Activist Laura Loomer branded him woke Marxist pope. Steve Bannon predicted friction with Trump. As for Pope Leo's political leanings, voting records show the Chicago native has participated in Republican and Democratic primaries in various elections.
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An ex-account under his name has criticized Trump's policies in the past and also rebuked J.D. Vance back in February. He's got a crazy Trumpy brother who, what was he saying? He's saying a bunch of things that are really nutty. One brother's calmer. He has two brothers. The older one seems insane. He's, as you said, from Chicago. He has a background, interestingly, of Creole and from Haiti.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah, not like a Qatari airplane, say.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
You know, they're calling him also the Black Pope, but he's definitely got, they did some really interesting reporting on that, which is cool. He's been all over the world. He's very international. Seems fascinating. So we'll get to the memes in a bit. What do you think of this Pope Leo? And so far, he seems very vibrant and exciting and interesting.
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No, I agree. The stock thing has to be dealt with throughout Congress, by the way. There was a Republican who did it, who was saying he was against it, and then he suddenly was doing a lot of trading, Marjorie Taylor Greene. They shouldn't be trading. And again, I think your idea of paying them more is a great idea. in order to get them off of that.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
That was something, as we said.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Because another part, you know, you're smart people. You want to make some money, and you can't help yourself, but you do have insider information to a lot of things.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
It depends on what your values are, though, because there's a very conservative shift in many people in the U.S., the most conservative. devout, I'm using that term loosely, are the conservative groups that are sort of machinate and behind the scenes in the Catholic Church. There's a whole groups of very conservative Catholics. And JD Vance is a convert, obviously, and is among those.
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And the concepts are much more old Latin Pope, like Benedict. Let's go back to before Vatican II and everything else. And I agree. I think this guy is a choice that they make. I happen to be Catholic. I don't even know what your religion is. But my grandmother went to Mass every day. I got confirmed. I never went inside a Catholic church since, really. I did that for her.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
But there's a real movement. Either it goes quite left or quite right. And it's responding to growth in Latin America and Africa and different places, I think, where there's more conservative. But there is a real conservative movement. shift in this country. And I think Pope Francis was smart to pick all those cardinals, shifting them a different way.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And there's one cardinal that's Cardinal Dolan in New York, who's his favorite one, who's quite conservative. And I have to say, Nancy Pelosi gave me a walkthrough all the conservative cardinals in the country. She's obviously, she's not allowed to be, to get communion in San Francisco, but I think other priests give her communion in some fashion. But
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
There's a real struggle going on, so this should be a really interesting Pope. But more importantly, there's Pope jokes, which were really good. If Laura Loomer and Steve Bannon don't like something, sign me up, I think. But you shared a Chicago Pope one, which looks like a new TV show coming to NBC. Very funny. The Wiener Circle, which I love in Chicago.
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It's a famous Chicago hot dog stand where they insult you. puts a Latin translation, he has eaten our dogs on their sign. Someone posted on X, smart play for the Vatican to go with an American Pope to avoid tariffs. That was cute. And Stephen Colbert put it, holy father, you had me at J.D. Vance is wrong. Did you have any other Pope memes you liked or do you have a joke yourself?
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I feel like you might have a Pope joke. Maybe you don't.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
You know, Michael Che did a good one, you know, that Trump's Pope picture was juvenile. You'd think the Catholics would like it. Get it?
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
One more, one more, one more Pope joke. The staff says no, but I say yes.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm going to move on from that. Anyway, and chaos at Newark Airport continues. As of Monday, the airport has been hit with three outages in under two weeks. U.S. airlines are meeting with the FAA this week to discuss cutting Newark flights. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy was on Meet the Press this week. And let's listen to what this dingbat has to say.
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Yeah, but then the Trump people have really taken it to the most- No, I agree, but that's a separate conversation.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yes. So Doge, of course, they asked him about Doge and he sort of kind of squirreled around on the cuts that Elon was trying to make there. One of them was so weird that I was reading about this weekend that Doge made it so you couldn't charge anything more than a dollar. To your credit card, your government credit card, because they can't buy paper and pens right now because of that stupidity.
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So Newark, I don't fly out of Newark. I tend not to. I try not to. I go out of JFK or LaGuardia. But when I'm in New York, any thoughts about concerns about air travel and what do you have to say?
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I agree. It's like, when did this suddenly happen? Oh, now it's because now we're here and we figured it out. No, now you're here and you're an incompetent administrator of a very critical part of our infrastructure. It just is good. This guy seems as dumb as a box of hammers.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm going to agree with you. I'm going to agree with you. All I have to say is I love a lady who has a pile of newspapers all crumpled up. She pulled out stories. She knew where everything was. It was quite nice, actually. It made me feel of a different era. I liked it.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And also other countries. If you've ever flown in other countries, you know this.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah. The fact that it's messing up now is really the testament to the Trump administration and the demonization of our government workers, which has really gone far too far. There's one thing to be critical. and want improvements in the money we're spending. But anyway, we have to move on. But this guy seems like an imbecile.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And the Trump administration is just presiding over really low-quality executives everywhere, which is not a surprise. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, you'll never guess what kind of company Elizabeth Holmes' partner is starting.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Scott, we're back. We're going to make quick work of this, I think. While Elizabeth Holmes is in prison for defrauding investors, her partner and father of her children is raising money for a company that, wait for it, claims to be the future of diagnostics.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Billy Evans is distributing marketing materials, claiming the company, Haymanthus, I think that's what it's called, is a radically new approach to health testing and will test blood, saliva, and urine. The company is probably aiming to raise over $50 million. We'll start testing pets with a goal of developing a stamp size wearable product for humans.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Marketing materials reviewed by The New York Times say there is no regulatory oversight. Investor presentations probably did not mention Evan's relationship to Elizabeth Holmes. Will there be free trials at the Fyre Fest, too? I just, you know, I believe in pivoting, but this seems a little bit too much on the nose. I don't know. What do you think?
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
She reads newspapers on paper instead of digitally. At one point when I figured out for her who the Pope was by getting online and stuff like that, she just said, ah, him, and then she fished out of this pile of newspapers an article the New York Times had done on this particular man who became the Pope. And she was like, hmm, I wonder if he's too conservative.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Agree. I agree with you with this. I agree with you, given what other people have done.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah. Just for clarification, she's not Evans' wife, Scott. She's his partner and mother of the kids. They're together, but they aren't actually married. That's all right. It's married-ish, married adjacent.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Married-ish, like us, you and I. Anyway, Billy, come on, Billy. Anyway, bad idea. And finally, OpenAI and Microsoft are negotiating the terms of their partnership to allow OpenAI to launch a future IPO, according to the Financial Times.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Like she was like immediately just out of this, she was almost like the Wikipedia herself. It was really interesting.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Microsoft has invested $13 billion in the company to date and is reportedly willing to give up some of its equity in exchange for access to new technology developed beyond the 2030 cutoff. there's going to be an IPO here. This is interesting. It's the one with the most revenues, the most users, et cetera, et cetera. And I think they've got to run ahead of everybody else, correct?
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I mean, this is a race. This is like, and they're in the lead at this moment. It doesn't mean they're going to stay in the lead. A lot of the open systems like Lama, a lot of people feel that that's going to really dominate that meta will. So any thoughts on this? Because you're Mr. Equity.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
But it'll get- It's so useful.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I just haven't seen someone have a lot of newspaper. My mother. I mean, you know, anyway, it was fun. We had a good time. White smoke. Anyway, we've got, how was your weekend, by the way? I was in California very briefly to talk to Democrats. What?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
They have hired a very adept executive, former CEO, former I think Meta person or Googler, who is the former CEO of Instacart, who's going to really run. It's the Sheryl Sandberg moment here in that regard. to run the companies, a lot of the business parts of it. So they really need to run fast and run hard.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And I think that most people feel Meta is their biggest, the open source Meta is their biggest competitor. And Mark is... It has no guardrails of anything. So we'll see what happens. Anyway, it has to happen. It has to happen. It's going to head that way. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, we're gonna do some wins and fails.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
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Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I think I shall go first. All right. I recommend, there's so many different, there's so many great, like, you know, TV's gotten great. There's a lot of great journalism going on. I have to say, there's several stories I've read recently that are just so good, interesting and fascinating to read. The one that really struck me this week was Nick Kristof's latest column in the New York Times.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
It's a long one. It sheds light on internal emails from Pornhub that were made public because of a filing error. Going back to 2020, they show employees laughing about what's on their site and reveal how the company handles child pornography. The inability of sites like Pornhub to get rid of CSAM, SAM it's called, child pornography, is horrifying.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And the fact that they're so casual about it and you see these emails laughing about it with the pain it happens to these people is just astonishing. These people should be sued back into the dark ages for what they're doing here. It's gross and it's bad for young men, as you write about a lot, and I agree with you.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
But the fact that they think it's funny about child pornography and the extent of it is so enormous. And we can talk about the audience for this, and that's another issue. But the fact that these companies facilitate it makes them – I mean, there's a sickness at the deep heart of humanity on this issue. But this company deserves to be sued out of existence from just this. And again –
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I don't like porn. I think it's bad for us. I think the digitization of it has made it even worse. But the fact that they can't control this and they think it's a joke is repulsive. So that's a huge fail. For a win, there's a lot to choose from, including New York will now require schools statewide to ban smartphones during school hours. That's great. But...
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm back. I'm in D.C. Jesus Christ. Going up to New York, I'm staying with you, just so you know. My son's graduating.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I was thrilled to see Cecily Strong return to SNL this weekend to reprise her role as Judge Jeanine Pirro after Trump named Pirro the interim U.S. attorney in D.C. That's another incompetent hire, by the way, but she did the whole... Colin Jost also came back. He came back as Pete Hegseth, and she spits drinks at him, and it was so funny.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And I love Cecily Strong and was just delighted to see her there, and I'm glad they got her to do that. She does the best Jeanine Pirro, but... From a fail point of view, Jeanine Pirro was an incompetent person to do this job. Never, just incompetent, beyond incompetent for this job.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Although the guy she replaced was venal and evil kind of personality where he was defending J6 people and had all these crazy schemes and everything. So I guess she's better than him, but that doesn't mean she's any good. And it's such an irresponsible appointment. Your thoughts? Here, go for it.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm not getting there till Wednesday.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Wednesday. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yes. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I told you Qatar tried to buy our all things D, like they wanted to give us $10 million each, all this stuff. This was more than 15 years ago where they wanted us to bring our conference there to Qatar, and Walt was like, you know I'm a Jew, and you back, come on. He was like, no. It was just an astonishing offer, and it was so massive. We were sort of shocked. Largely, they wanted the technology.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
You're there with someone. And if you want to have drinks tonight, I'm coming in tonight.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
They're sort of trying to buy um it was the influencer to look good right we were sort of clean clean washing them in some way by going there and there's a lot of by the way there's a lot of events that go there now and do that but i remember walt was like no way like and it was an enormous sum of money you know at the time like 10 million dollars sticks in my head but
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
We were sort of shocked by it and astonished and, of course, said no immediately. But I agree with you. This is just beyond. I mean, the Nazis did this during right ahead of World War II, like tried to like buy influence through their various agents. The same thing, you know, very much trying to influence U.S. policy. But this is I don't even know what this is. This is even what's the goal here?
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Precisely. That's the thing is what's their actual goal?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I don't. What are you? You're Jewish. You're Jewish. You're partially Jewish. You're half Jewish.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
So wait, your mother is Jewish. What is your father?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Oh, okay. It was a nice picture of her you put up for Mother's Day, by the way.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
That was lovely, I have to say. I was touched by that.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Oh, it was Amanda's birthday also. We did a picnic. I took my mom out with the kids for breakfast.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm going to just show up. I'm nearby. I'm in a hotel nearby.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm a really good parker, I would say.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Happy Mother's Day to you, too, and to your wife. Not to you at all in any way.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I used to have breakfast with my mom. I took the kids and Amanda rested at home. And then we had a lovely picnic for her birthday. And I bought her a lemon tree, a Meyer lemon tree as a gift for Mother's Day and her birthday. Because she loves the Meyer lemons in my house in San Francisco. So we're going to try to grow one here in our house.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I got her a plate that had lemons on it, and then lemon things, and then a beautiful lemon-colored pitcher that's beautiful. It was a lemon situation, as in when life gives you.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
No, I got her a lemon tree to grow for our life. I love lemons. I love lemons anyway.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I love that guy who runs it, Jeff.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
They're so aggressive, the Villanovans.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah. Yeah, we played them in basketball. We're supposed to hate. Villanova, as I recall.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Do you want to hear the weirdest thing? I thought about going back to church after I had him. I thought about it. I'm still not going probably because so much corruption and the man thing.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. I don't know.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
No, I'm not. I'm not either.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Lately, I've been walking by a lot of churches. I've been walking by and I want to go in and I don't know what that is. I honestly, apparently.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I was like, I was thinking I want some peace. I know it sounds crazy, but I was, I don't know. Let's go to church tonight. That's you and I. Okay. Okay.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
All right. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on On with Kara Swisher, I spoke with CNN's chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour. Let's listen to a clip.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Oh, it goes on. She talks about the various, you know, when we moved into Afghanistan and about different things that they have done to be supportive of us. She wasn't saying America hasn't helped Europe. That was not what she was also saying. She thinks that Vance and putting out the idea that they don't do anything is ridiculous. Right.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
She was saying that the alliance is so important and that the narrative they're putting about freeloaders was not true. And she made a larger case, but she was in no way saying America's aid to Europe wasn't critical, too. She was being more complex.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Substantive is the word you're looking for.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
She is. I really, really adore her. We've become good friends, and I really like her. It was a great talk. Anyway, please listen to it. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
They're the one in L.A., and it's lovely. The one in L.A.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah, it's nice. A guy who's a Pivot fan, actually, Jeff. I'm lacking on his last name. But I love the one in L.A. It's quite lovely. I've been there for lunch. I've been a guest to people. But did you like it, this one, comparatively?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Would you care to say which one you like best or not?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Oh, yeah, it's a nice crowd.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
All right, so I'll meet you at Zero Bond tonight. That'll be great.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I will. I have to speak in front of C-U-N-Y. Is it CUNY? Is that how you pronounce it?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
And that means your people can focus on the work they want to do. That's putting AI Agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started at servicenow.com slash AI-agents.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
CUNY. I'm speaking in front of a Newmark group. Craig Newmark has funded a journalism thing. But then I'm free.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
So you can meet me. Then I'm free.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm going to find you tonight. Do you want to go to the theater tomorrow night?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I have a lot to work. I'm interviewing Barry Diller. I'm going on Nicole Wallace's new podcast.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
You were on her show show. She has a new podcast too now. Oh, really? Everybody's got a new podcast. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Not me, I see, as you can see.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah, I do too, except for the flight thing, but go ahead.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Oh, I declined those. You did them?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
You did it again. You've done this before.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yep. I agree with you. The call before, see, I always returned down. I was like, no, you can read my threads. What?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
You're never going to meet Oprah now. Oh, well.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
BFF. BFF's our best friend. It really, truly is. Well, that's a nice story. Anyway, I'm going to go on a podcast that's an hour long, so I am agreeing to do it. Because it's anything, as long as it's substantive.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
She's Great. Hello, Moderate. We like her. We like her a lot.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I love her. I think she's really great. And then I'm doing Barry Diller. I'm very excited in person. We're going to do it in person. Yeah, that guy's a gangster.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
What other TV did you turn down?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I'm like, yeah, I'm really scared of him.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including MAGA's meltdown over the Pope, woke Pope, and the return of Elizabeth Holmes, sort of, I guess. But first, the U.S. and China have reached a deal to roll back the sky-high tariffs they've imposed on each other, at least for the next 90, another 90-day thing. Under the deal, the U.S.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Scott, did you hear who my seatmate was? Your favorite person on my way to California to talk to Democrats. I can't say who.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
tariffs on China will drop from 145% to 30%, while China will cut its own tariffs on American goods from 125% to 10%. These tariffs reductions will go into effect Wednesday. China also said it will suspend or cancel tariff countermeasures, including restrictions on rare earth metals that have been hitting automakers and chip makers.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
The markets are thrilled by this China deal, though Dow surged 1,000 points at the opening bell. No surprise. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant was just on CNBC calling this a pause and saying he expects to meet with China in the coming weeks to work out a larger agreement. I mean, What? Like, why did we do this? I guess to get them to do this? Is this better, better, worse?
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I can't even tell because the specifics are not there. Besson also said Netherside wants a decoupling, meaning we want to get along with the Chinese. That's probably, hello, we already knew that. If you're an American company right now, I don't know what your next move is. And Scott, how many dolls are you buying me? That's what I really want to know. But talk about this deal. Yeah.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
She was delightful. She's a delightful seatmate, I must say. Let me just tell you one thing about her. First of all, I recognized it was her because it was a plane full of political people. Zoe Lofgren was on there. Eric Swalwell was on there. But someone yelled out white smoke really loudly, an older lady, and it turned out to be her and spent hours.
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U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yeah, they're doing pretty well.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
I cannot believe that. I saw that.
Pivot
U.S.-China Trade Deal, Trump's Plane Grift, and the American Pope
Yes, an authoritarian communist country that follows its people. It is... It's so ridiculous what we've done here.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I know it's bad. I think it is actually a hollowing out, not just of the regulators of Elon, although I think that's very clear. What is the percentage, the actual numbers? It's a very small amount. He's not saving any money. I mean, the whole thing is kind of a faint. It's a misdirect. It is a misdirect. And at the same time, they were going to pass this tax law anyway.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
They were not going to not pass this tax law. And I do think the Democrats, as we talked about last week, focusing in on Elon is good politically because he's disliked from poll after poll. The polls are very clear. So I'm not so sure it's the smartest idea to have this... This misdirect is different than DEI crashed planes versus something else. I do think it's at the heart of what Trump's doing.
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
And I think he's... antagonizing a lot of his base. And by that, I mean people in Washington for no good reason when he could get these things passed no matter what.
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
They do. There's always that sentence. Like, of course, we're all for government reform. If you notice, they always do that.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
He does look like his soul has come out of his body.
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, we'll see. It'll take a while to get him out. Elon is a bit like mold. So let's talk about how Elon is influencing the business world by moving his Texas here to Texas. He's not the first to do it. Now Chevron, KFC, and Meta are talking about putting their HQs here. The governor of Delaware, where most Fortune 500 companies are incorporated, is now scrambling to keep companies there.
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
What the fuck are you doing here?
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You and I have talked about that. You have talked about being a good thing because Texas is more business friendly versus other places. I assume other states will try to do the same thing. Wyoming, I know, is doing that. Nevada. There's certain states that are doing that. Do you think Delaware is over as a place to do business?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Why do they schedule us at 10? That's what I was thinking.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Would you move to Texas? Florida hasn't worked out as well. The whole Miami tech thing is sort of a bust right now.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I understand, but that didn't take off.
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Is that fair? Well, maybe Austin does, but I know that. I'm aware of that. I'm aware. But let me say, I worry about my family a lot, like in different certain states. I love Austin. I love this area. But you have a state government that's hostile to my family. So it's really hard when I'm making—Florida, forget it. And I'm even worried in DC, my kid's in a DC public school.
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Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
And, you know, she brought home, they did like a little diversity moment where they were just, it was coloring, a coloring thing. And I thought, oh, wow, one of these fucking senators from some state who has no values that I have are gonna try to mess with my kid's education. I think about it all the time. And then I'm like, great.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, it's just, you just, you have to be thinking really hard about where you want to raise your kids and where they're going to attack your family. I mean, I just, I think about it. I didn't think I'd have to think about it again in my life, except now I do.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I get it. But anytime a state can talk with me, I'm very aware of it. And it's one of the reasons I love California and stuff. But I get it. I get it. There's definitely a cost-benefit analysis, but I just find I'd rather be in states that support my family. That's all. So you think a lot of states will move here? You do. You do think they'll move?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
No, it's her house. She has a house.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You guys are building like crazy here. What in the hell is going on? I've never seen such, like every time I come back here, I think there can't be another building here in Austin. And then there's another fucking building.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
It's her house. It is. That's right. No, she's $8 million. She's $8 million.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
It's getting a little much, I'll be honest with you. All right. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll have more for you.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah. That's not rich by these people's standards.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah. All right. Okay. She doesn't trade stocks. Anyway, how is your South by Southwest?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
And I interviewed Senator Elizabeth Warren where we talked about co-presidents Trump and Musk, the attack on government watchdogs like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Trump's proposed crypto reserve, and how Democrats can fight back.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Okay, Scott, we're back. On Friday, President Trump held the first ever crypto summit at the White House.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Can I just tell you, there is no way you could do what I do. See, the crowd agrees.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Let me just say, if you understood what's happening here, you're the pretty one, incredibly. You're the pretty one who just sits there and says things.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
No, I'm just kidding. Get us out of this now. You probably cry. I've never thought about having sex, just so you know.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, I'm just... Yeah. It just seems like the inevitable end of our relationship.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Suddenly we'll look at each other. It's like a movie, like a Hallmark movie. I just ate! Okay. All right. Okay. Now we're back. Okay. President Trump held the first ever crypto summit at the White House. Crypto experts, lawmakers, administration officials gathered as Trump declared a war on crypto is over.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
A day earlier, Trump signed an executive order creating a strategic Bitcoin reserve and separate digital assets stockpile. The reserve will be established with Bitcoin that has been seized from federal law enforcement. I don't know how much that is. During Trump's second term, the SEC had already closed several investigations. into cryptocurrency firms.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Sam Bankman Freed, if you saw him on Tucker Carlson the other day, he's hoping to get in on that forgiveness. The disgraced FTX founders have probably been campaigning for a pardon from President Trump. I bet he gets it. What do you think of the reserve? And will you be thinking about more crypto investments now that this is happening? You and I have been sort of
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
in and out on whether crypto is good. I ultimately think it's probably more, some of it's okay, some of it isn't. Some of the people in crypto find this disturbing, the way they're doing this, in the way they found the Biden administration to be too difficult in terms of rolling things out.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Which they're also trying to do, a sovereign fund. He's talked about that. Why?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Because a lot of people felt the Biden administration had been hostile, especially Gary Gensler, who you and I both talked to. that they had been hostile to the development of it, trying to overregulate it. I do understand why their inclination is to regulate it, because it's currency, it does affect other parts of the economy.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Would you buy Bitcoin right now?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Vegetables. Oh, God. I am jet lagged. I am jet lagged coming back from Australia.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You told me that. Yeah, I bought it at the beginning. People know this story. I bought it at the beginning. I was writing a story about Wences Casares, who started Zappo. And I bought 10 or 50 Bitcoin. I don't know. But it was like 50 bucks each. And it must have been 10 because I spent $500.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
It's not in a drawer. I don't know where it is.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, go get my mother or do something.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
From Spotify. Anyway. By the way, Netflix is getting into podcasting.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Just saying. No Bitcoin for us. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break and we'll be back with our next big story.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
All right, Scott, we're back with our next big story. All right. You won't take a shot. I have liquor for you.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I do. I make the big bucks. We're back with our next big story. Let's talk very quickly about IPOs. I want to get to the questions from the audience. I want you to be brief here. I know it's difficult for you. 2025 was expected to be a big year for IPOs, thanks to Trump and his pro-business, anti-regulation administration.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
But with tariff whiplash, regulatory changes, inflation concerns out there, we're not seeing an IPO just yet, although StubHub and Discord are reportedly getting ready to dip their toes in the waters. Some other long-rumored is Xi'an OpenAI and SpaceX. Is it a good time to go public? It doesn't seem like there have been any.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Xi'an, for example, is facing some headwinds with Trump, ending the de minimis loophole that allows them to ship cheap goods from China to the U.S. without paying taxes and import duties. Where is the IPO market, briefly?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
And will it come back with any of these? Some of these are promising companies, obviously.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
There's also the lack of interest in being public. Because of regulation. It's not the thing you want anymore because of regulation, because of public-facing things. I bet a lot of these companies may go private. Do you ever see one of the very big companies going private?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think they're doing a lot more weed is what's happening. There's a lot more weed out there.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I'd just say that's my impression for my children.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, that's interesting. All right, get ready to ask questions. Taylor, bring out the liquor, please. Thank you. Scott, you're going to have a shot. You promised. Thank you.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You can do it. This is Taylor, everybody. Taylor Griffin, who is amazing. She's one of our, go ahead.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Anyway, she's amazing. By the way, take a moment. All our staffs on all our podcasts are amazing.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
No, they're great. They have to put up with Scott, obviously. Thank you, Taylor. Okay, give him the big one. I'll take the little Texas boot.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Give him the boot. Okay. Give him the boot. Give him the boot.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yes, I'm not. Yes, because I want to have my way with you. Okay.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
All right. Okay. Let us begin with audience questions. Everybody, line up here, please. Stand up and ask questions of us. Start walking. You can ask anything you want. Anything.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think is important is actual narrative in stories. And I think one of the things that's attractive about our podcast is you follow us over time, right? And I notice when we talk to our fans, when they come up to us, they like the story about us, about our relationship, not just, you know, and they like the whole story.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
And I think as we follow things and we learn and sort of start to analyze, it's not a bad thing necessarily. Obviously, sometimes we worry about the Elon-ness of it. Like at this point, we get it, but I got to tell you, we're growing. Like it's hard to, it's like Trump. You're sort of like stuck in a situation. He really is consequential. And so you can't ignore him.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
But we definitely think about how to be fresh and not repetitive. And that's hard because you have to come up with new insights all the time, Scott.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
But it's hard now because they're really fucking in Washington, these assholes. I mean, it's really, I always joke.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, it's hard not to, they're there. And, you know, David Sacks is deciding on this idiotic crypto reserve. You've got, like, they're all wandering. I live in Washington now. I moved. And then there they are, like the top day. And I'm like, fuck, how did they get here? Yeah.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
No, I'm not. You are so much leftier than I am these days. But go ahead. You think? Yeah, really. You've become somewhat of a San Francisco lesbian if I had to be honest. You have gone rather left. You're more, I'm more expecting the Trump people right here. Let's get through as many as we can. Go ahead.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I'm so jet lagged. I'm fine with it. Go ahead.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
That's a great question. I'll start very quickly. I think it's critically important. They do it in Europe, like all the time. And it's not, it's without the shame of it. There's something in this country thinking that college is a better option. It's just stuck in the minds of parents, I think, in a lot of ways. I have a son who I would love to be a chef, for example, and go to school.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I don't think, he happened to like college and it went really well. He's gone and he's graduating this year, my oldest son. But I do think, I thought a lot about like if he wanted to do other things, For my other son, college was critical because he's going to be in fusion energy and he needs to be trained and stuff. But it's definitely getting this.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
For some reason, there's a stink on the idea of it in this country. And I don't know why, because these are great professions. They're very difficult. They're AI proof in many ways. Right. And I don't know why there is a sense that that's not the way to go in this country. Right.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
That's how it happened. All right, I'm going to cut you off. Sorry. We're going to try to get—
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yes, yes. It just did. It just did. I love you, Anna. I'll answer. I just was in Australia and they're terrified of Elon Musk coming over there and doing something like or Trump getting paying attention to them, especially on their online safety bill that they passed. And they're worried about they're they're absolutely worried about him funding.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
They have a less active right wing group there, but they're worried about him funding. uh that group uh he's gonna do it all over the world i don't see him stopping i i think this is his he thinks i don't think it was particularly effective in germany as much as the the amount of i think it was a negative effect with especially with the most charmless person in politics they doubled their results
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
All right, question. How many women are asking men out? Just curious.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
They did, but it was already on the way. They thought it would be more. They thought they'd really goose it. But J.D. Vance is the most charmless politician in existence right now. And I think that, you know, when they said Hillary Clinton was likable enough, when Obama said he's not likable enough. That's why I don't think he's the next president or whatever.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
But but I think that he will continue to do so. Scott, briefly.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Oh, it's nice. I'm just curious. Why can't that happen?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think you're doing it just right. I think your country seems reunited. I can't believe Doug Ford is attractive as a candidate right now. I think you're all pushing back in a really terrific way.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think you handled it very well. Okay, here. Short answer, Scott Galloway.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think the problem is older men. One time my son said, and I think this is a common thing, is we should send old men to war rather than young men, and maybe they'll stop. Like, you know, he was making what seems to be a pretty obvious point.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think we really have a problem with the people above them, and it affects younger men, as anyone who has a young man as a son or relative or something like that knows. But I do think getting people to change at a higher level is much more difficult, as anyone knows, like when you're dealing with someone like that. It would be great, but I don't think they change.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think they get worse and more stuck in their ways. I don't know. Very briefly, because I want to get to the rest.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I'm sure you're right on the statistics, honestly. But you should do that. Everybody should ask each other out. My sons were both asked out by the girls. They are now seeing their girlfriends.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
All right, we'll end on that one. I'm going to do one thing. I'm going to bring up a woman because we've had all men ask questions. So, sorry. First woman right there. Go ahead, yeah. I don't really care what gender you are.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Why don't you show your stomach? Like, as if that's the most attractive part.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
The Democrats need a Project 2029, a really serious one, and get ready to put it in place. All right. Sorry, we only have time for one more question. Sorry, right here. Sorry.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
It's a good car. We don't think it's not a good car.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Do you know what I think you need? Oh, God, here he goes again. Do you believe in love at first sight? No, no. Or should I walk by? Oh. Do you know what I'm thinking right now? I'm reconsidering the possibility of doing another four-year deal with Scott Galloway, but I've just re-reconsidered it.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Robin Denholm, the chairman, just sold a hundred and some million dollars.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yeah, there's some really good Wall Street Journal reporting on this, on not just the money they've made as a board. It's really quite unprecedented. This is not a board of directors that has any independence in the way you think about a board. And most boards are not, by the way. But this one is a particularly... in the tank for Elon, and they've done well because of it.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
So the shareholder that they're most interested in is Elon Musk, and that's it. And the company has suffered because of it. And when it goes, you know, we'll see it goes down. But if he has a great car that comes out or suddenly robo taxis work, that would be great. I just don't see it at this point going forward.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
It's like an episode of White Lotus. Thank you.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
He is. I just wanted to mention. Voice cameo. Face for radio. Yeah.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Well, it's really about you. White Lotus is about people like you, just so you know.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You're more Steve Zahn, I think. Anyway.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
That's correct. And he's not going to do that right here for you people, right? No, we're not going to do that. We're not going to do that. Anyway, I'm sorry. We can't answer any more questions because we've got another podcast coming up. That's all we have. Thank you for listening to your favorite podcast on your favorite podcast platform. And for watching us on YouTube.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
We're killing it on YouTube. This is for some reason. I don't know why. We'll be back Friday with more Pivot. Scott, please read us out.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
All right. You know what? We're going to end up together in like.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yes, I'll be wheeling you around.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Yes. And then I'll keel over and you'll be sitting there like by yourself. No one's going to want to talk to you. Anyway, speaking of shots, we're going to do shots here like we promised. I don't do shots. Really? Really?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
What do you mean you don't do shots?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You literally just told him to drink and now you don't do shots?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You're going to do a shot today.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You're doing a shot because it says don't mess with Texas.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
We're going to fuck with Texas today. Anyway, as I was saying, we're doing our thing. We've got a lot to get to today. We're taking questions from the live audience of which are going to be most of the show. But we want to talk about a couple of things following the news that Trump is reigning in Elon Musk. Neither of us.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
And Doge, let's talk about how Elon's actual business they're doing as he dabbles in government. SpaceX's largest Starship exploded this past week during a test flight. That's the second time it's happened. He does blow up a lot of rockets. Tesla sales and stock price are down and the company is at risk of bleeding cash.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Is this business missteps happening because of his role in government or in spite of it? How do you look at these? Because the and then Sterling, which may or may not go public, we'll talk about that in a minute, has seen competition from China, from Jeff Bezos, from all kinds of stuff. What's happening here?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
But taking your eye off the ball, because there are now competitors, there's going to be increasing amounts of competitors. Will the same thing happen? Is this political collocation a good one for him? Because they may use Starlink at the FAA. They may use, but they were buying Cybertrucks for some reason for the State Department.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
You don't think so. What will happen then to Tesla from your perspective? Just a downward slide. I mean, they have to obviously update the cars. They're talking about self-driving, full self-driving. They're talking about robo-taxis, which already are in effect here with Waymo for years, actually.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. This is a live broadcast. As we said, we were going to do it here. We're very excited. We always have a great time at South by Southwest. How is your South by Southwest, Scott?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
So where's the benefit for him in this? kleptocracy you speak of
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think that, too. I think people who are buying it are repulsed by it or actually repulsed by it and are not. But, you know, you see all these stories and actually you're seeing violence at Tesla facilities, not just there, but at charging stations. The cars are getting defaced. I think people are embarrassed to have them. I mean, the Uber thing is simple.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I actually don't, won't take a Tesla Uber. I just don't, I don't like the cars actually myself. I find them, it feels like I'm sitting in the inside of an egg. I know it sounds dumb, but if you're in there, it feels sterile. And I don't, if I'm going to pay more for a car, an Uber, I want a nice comfortable car. But that's besides the point.
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
I think it's just a brand destruction is what's happening. And he doesn't seem to mind because I think he's bored with his other businesses, and this is interesting to him, what he's doing. But the pushback is real from the thing. Do you think that's the case with him and Marco Rubio? There was a very funny SNL skit last night on that. Do you think the pushback is actually real?
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
People keep predicting he and Trump finally—
Pivot
Elon's Empire Struggles, Trump's Crypto Summit, and IPO Slump
They're actually real. They are actually getting fired.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
On this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, I'm chatting with internet sensation and everyone's favorite Philly influencer, Bran Flakes. He's a social media maverick and content creator turning viral moments into cold, hard cash. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on the Your Rich BFF YouTube channel.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
What if his entities aren't for profit?
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And he goes after you. Of course. It's like, okay.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Let's just say they're the most capitalist.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
They're probably charitable people, but no one's going to put $100 billion up for fun.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I said these things, Elon, not Kara. And he's acting like these individuals. First off, can the guy not afford autocorrect? It's like his team or grammar, pick a struggle. And the notion that there's somehow these, he portrayed this team as being in Guantanamo Bay when the reality is they're on a Discord server figuring out if their logo or their meme should have sunglasses.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Well, first off, let's be fair. Sam Altman is not a swindler. The rest of that might be true. But look, this is the same emotion as a really angry ex-spouse. You go through a contentious divorce. You give your half of the house to your spouse. And then the moment you leave, the house ends up going from a million in value to a billion. So you not only feel... You're so fucking angry that you left.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
You agreed to leave. He gave up all of it. I mean, it just reeks of... burn this village to save it, angry ex-spouse. I'm just so upset at the bad deal I agreed to. He left. They have those emails. He wanted out.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And he's now a distant player in the race. And he's got a bunch of people together who all want to be around the Elon magic. And he does create a ton of shareholder value. Through chaos. Through chaos. At a minimum, I'll slow them down, I'll create, I'll get in the news cycle again, and I'll pretend that it's something righteous. Yeah.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I'd love to see Ari Emanuel, the guy from Barron Capital, to stand up and tell us why you think AI needs to be a nonprofit. And you're not expecting a return on investment here? You're willing to do this for the good of humanity?
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I think what's going to happen here, though, is I think the two people that are going to rally around Altman, are gonna be arguably one of the more powerful people in tech here and one of the grownups, Satya Nadella and the deep pocket of Masayoshi San. I think this is gonna thrust Sam further into their embrace.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And I think they're gonna rally around Sam, because here's the thing around Musk, if you're already rich, you don't want to put up with this guy. You don't want him anywhere. Do you think Satya Nadella wants to go to board meetings with Elon Musk?
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
These guys, it will create a distraction, but you're going to see, I think, Satya, Microsoft, and Masayoshi-san will see this as an opportunity to kind of bear hug Altman. But Altman, in my view, at the end of the day, the most successful people over the long term put themselves in a room full of opportunities because they make a lot of allies.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And I have been wrong so far, but one of these people has largely been making allies and another one of them has been making people a lot of money, but has been making a lot of enemies.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I think that's going to come home to roost here.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I mean, to portray these kids as victims is just kind of hilarious. But I did feel bad that he went after you and not just me.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
All I remember is Kelly Lynch.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
But he's the ultimate vendor's dream because he says to these enormous law firms of incredibly talented, smart people and bankers, he has unlimited funds. And this again goes to the notion that power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts and people just shouldn't have this much money. He can say to all of his bankers.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
and all of his lawyers and the smartest people in the services industry. Okay, I got 10 minutes. Here's your directive. Fuck with Sam Altman. Come back with a dozen ideas. And somebody came back and said, well, actually the nonprofit has governance rights so we can make a bid for the nonprofit. And he says to the banker, get on it. I think the directive here was pretty simple.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
He didn't say anything.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I got none of that. So I wasn't going to watch the Super Bowl. There couldn't be anything more American than a bunch of boner pill ads and opioid-induced medication ads while we watch young, beautiful men get CTE. I mean, it really is America.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
But instead of like Roman Coliseum and Lions, we have Taylor Swift. And I promised myself I wasn't going to watch. And then my 14-year-old goes, Dad, do you want to watch Super Bowl? And I'm like, yeah, of course I do. I mean, so a chance to hang out.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Yeah, but it started at 11.30 p.m.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
We had milk and oatmeal chocolate chip cookies.
Pivot
Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I know that is kind of dull, isn't it? And then, but of course it was, my 14 year old didn't want to hang out with his dad and watch football. He wanted to stay up till two in the morning. I thought Kendrick Lamar was incredibly boring. Really? I didn't think it was a good performance at all, but I realize I've kind of aged out of that shit. I don't know.
Pivot
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But my favorite, though, hands down, though, I mean, the ads that occasionally really move you, there was this wonderful ad, and I don't know if you saw this, but it was of a man sitting at the Super Bowl, and he had an empty seat next to him. And someone leans over and asks him, why is it there's an empty seat? And he says...
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that he bought two seats for him and his wife, but his wife, unfortunately, had recently passed. And then the guy goes, well, I'm so sorry. Why did you not bring someone else from your family? And he responds, they're all at the funeral.
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I don't think so. I think investors now consider Amazon as essentially a cloud company with a retail unit, and their cloud division actually missed estimates by about $100 million. Even though the growth was 19 percent to 29 billion, keep in mind that while AWS represents just 15% of Amazon's revenue. It's responsible for the majority of its operating profit.
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And is the reason he's the CEO. Because essentially, as AWS goes, so does Amazon now. And so the analysts and shareholders are essentially, yeah, yeah, yeah, retail, fine, fine, fine. Amazon Prime Video, yeah, whatever. What's happening with AWS? I initially thought that,
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I've said this in my predictions two or three years ago that Amazon would eventually spend AWS and AWS would be the most valuable company in the world in five or seven years. And they didn't. Another one wrong. Another one wrong.
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They never, they're absolutely not until they do. But anyways, but they essentially, Amazon's firing on all cylinders, but the fact that they say they were capacity constrained, the miss was enough to scare investors though, because it's so important in terms of their margin. The AWS's operating profit margin was 37% and the rest of Amazon, get this, it's just 7%.
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It is really that's the tail wagging the dog here. Amazon is a cloud company with a retail division.
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Look, I've advocated for a long time that if you took Amazon, Apple, and Alphabet, and Facebook, or Meta, and you turn them into 15 companies, you'd end up with an aggregate that within 24 months, these 15 companies would be worth much more than the original four. That breakup was a bad idea, said no one ever.
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Breakups are one of the few things in history where the government intervention always works. Shareholders win, innovation wins. The reason, do you think if Google had been a standalone unit or if Google Cloud had been a standalone unit or Google AI had been a standalone unit, do you think they would have stopped Do you think they would have most likely had an AI application sooner? Much sooner.
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That wasn't on my bingo card either. So yeah, that's, that's not going to happen. Yeah.
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They want to make sure they don't fuck with the toll booth known as search. Shareholders win. Consumers win because it creates more competition. You know who wins really big is the employees because they have more people bidding on their time and renting.
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The only people that really benefit are the person who wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, not just Westeros. And unfortunately, because of dual class shareholder companies, they usually get to make the decision. But if you look at it from a pure shareholder standpoint, I would argue that you'd wanna break them up.
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But in terms of, I think Amazon is the kind of company, my biggest holdings for the last 10 years have been Amazon and Apple. And even when Apple gets to 34 times earnings, which is in quite frankly kind of crazy town, the fact that it's growing 2% a year and it's growing, it has a P multiple of 34 versus its historical average of like 18 or 19. You should probably sell.
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But at the end of the day, these are the kind of companies that you just sort of hold forever because they just continue to innovate.
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Not in this environment. No, no, no. Not with Cantor and Congon. You're going to see these guys are all telling their bankers to sharpen their pencils and actually go acquire and gobble up more stuff now.
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Just to talk about concentration on power, my friend Andy Cohen at J.P. Morgan pointed something out. This blew my mind.
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Oh, no, not Anderson's friend. No, Andy is like the most likable guy in the world. He literally is exactly in the seat he should be, and that is he – is managing tens of billions of dollars for high net worth families. And he's just the most likable guy in the world. And also very smart, nice man. Anyways, he said something that just blew my mind.
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I, of course, was like doing my party trick and throwing out stats. And I said that the US equity market now was 50% of the total value of all equities globally. And he said, no, it's actually, if you add in debt, corporate debt, America represents 70% of all value globally. So if you think about it, would you rather own the world
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Would you rather own America for $70 or if you could own everything but America for 30, which would you pick? And what that says to me is that America is overvalued. And not only is America overvalued, it's really the whole world is vulnerable because there are 10 stocks that represent
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28 to 33 percent of the value, meaning that somewhere between one and six and one and five dollars globally is dependent upon a small number of companies. And if Amazon and other folks show any slowdown in AI or cloud, oh, my God.
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That's going to be an echo felt around the world really severely.
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World leaders are learning how to deal with them, and that is you mollify them by making some token gestures. Basically, Claudia Scheinbaum and Trudeau said, all right, I'll tell you what, we'll do this, and they were already doing it.
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And then he walks it back.
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But they're basically kind of managing him. But our presence across the world is a function of leverage and relationships. And if you said to your husband, you're really vulnerable right now, whatever, you're out of work, and I'm going to leave you unless you do the following things, and you're really like... he or your partner might be so scared and so upset and so vulnerable.
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They say, okay, you're bigger than me. You're more important than me. I agree. But what does that do to the long-term relationship? And I don't think people realize that these people, at some point, they will find explicit and implicit ways. Canada, we're brothers in arms. They're our allies. They're our friends. They followed us into Afghanistan, right? This is just so short-sighted.
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The hint or the insight here, I think, is the following. The adult in the administration here is the 10-year bond in the stock market and the 1% who Trump listens to, corporations and very, very wealthy people. And what happened here was the following.
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They called him and said, this is all cute, but you realize, you know, XYZ company, we're going to lose 20% of our sales overnight and you're probably going to see gas spike and you're going to see the 10-year bond. And he pretends that he has a victory and he walks it back. And I think the lesson here for Democrats is the following.
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I think that we are now at a point where because they control all three branches of government and we really can't do anything through our institutions in sending Congress people to wave their cane at the building of the Department of Education, that's just not an effective strategy optically.
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Oh, fuck. Put a third of them on a fucking ice flow. I've had it. I've had it.
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It looks like a senior's home where they've canceled water aerobics at this point. That's how effective an outrage. Charles Schumer, we'll win. Oh, okay. Thanks. That feels better, Chuck. Anyways, these people are so fucking pathetic. Oh, no, they've switched Jell-O night to Tuesdays. Rise up, America. My God. Oh my God. Anyways, this is the strategy.
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This is the strategy. Fine, you want mutual assured destruction. We are not gonna approve an increase in the debt limit and we're gonna have a failed treasury auction. and the 90, the 1% who own 90% of the stocks, you're gonna start getting calls from them. You wanna go gangster, let's go gangster. Because the bottom line is when it comes to economics, the tariffs, you know what Trump did?
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It's like such a- But there's a lesson here. This is where we have leverage. Our leverage is around the bond market and a failed treasury auction. And I recognize this could set off something really ugly, but before it sets it off,
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The people he cares about, corporations, which have the lowest tax rates since 1939, and the 1% who have garnered an extraordinary amount of spoils, are going to call him and say, you realize the Democrats are going to shut down. You're going to be the first president that has a failed treasury auction. That is our leverage.
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Enough of this screaming into TikTok, and this is where we have leverage, and this is where we should go.
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I think it's war. And I think that, unfortunately, we're on the wrong side of it. And we thought we built these impenetrable institution of these Maginot lines. And they just dropped, the Nazis just dropped paratroopers behind this impenetrable institution. border called the Maginot Line.
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And I think we're on the Democrats and Panzer tanks have rolled in and we're trying to fight them on horseback. We shouldn't be talking about what's outrageous about this or what's wrong about it. We should be saying the following.
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if a group of talented engineers can come in and cut off payments to veterans, cut off payments to children in low-income areas, then once we're in power, I wonder if we could find some really intelligent young people to cut off payments to Starlink overnight. Overnight.
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We think, by the way, we're wondering if space is sovereign territory and that you're trespassing and we should take control of your 51 satellites. And we have some really talented people from Google and from different tech companies that we think could go in and shut down Starlink and start asking questions the next day and let's find out if it, maybe it's not legal, let's find out.
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Well, okay. Just to steel man it, he does have a point in the sense that, let's be clear, in my opinion, trespassing and illegal takeover of our government to hack the system such that veterans and kids and people benefiting from Head Start, this is on the president and Elon Musk. It's really not about these kids. It's really not about them.
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So instead of like screaming into fucking TikTok or on MSNBC, You, if you can do this, well, we're going to come up with some creative ideas about maybe we could do the same thing.
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Okay, so something I've struggled with my entire career is the difference between being right and being effective. And I think the majority of the Democratic Party and the majority of media talking about some of the points you've just referenced are right. I wanna move to the effective part of the conversation. Absolutely. And this is how I think we become effective.
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If you wanna hurt Trump or stop him, you gotta stop Musk. And if you wanna stop Musk, you need to go after the surface area of attack. And it's one thing, it's money. It's already happening in Europe. EV sales in Europe are down 6%, but they're down like 20 to 40% across France in different nations.
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They're off dramatically. Should you be signing up for T-Mobile right now? Should veterans be signing up? Should veterans be communicating to their colleagues or institutions or people in areas affected by this? Should they be saying, T-Mobile, I'm not down with you partnering with Elon Musk at Starlink? Should you be flying United Airlines, which just announced a big deal with Starlink?
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Should you, and I'm just speaking for a friend here, but what if every time you get an Uber, every time I get an Uber, if it pulls up, if it says Tesla Model S, I cancel and I put in the notes, I will not ride in a Tesla. I'm done being right, let's be effective. And this is about going after one third of Musk's wealth
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was not only created by these democratic institutions and rule of law, which he has no fidelity to, so fine, let's take some of it back. But trying to talk about how outrageous this is and whether it's illegal or not legal, let's go after all these guys care about. They care about power and they care about money. Let's move from the right part of the program to the effective part of the program.
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But what I would ask him is that he come after me when I say things like, wow, Elon Musk appears to have made a hard Reich in his politics or that the new Tesla model SS is coming out. I say those things. You don't. And if he's going to accuse me of overreach, then come after me, bitch. To go after the woman is... It shows one of two things.
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T-Mobile subscribers, do you want to work with a guy who's giving Nazi salutes?
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That's happening. The only way you get either of these guys to notice, in my view, is you go after their money.
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I ask this sincerely. I understand that we don't want to hand over our data to this individual. I don't want to call it conspiracy theory, but theories that the end game here is to get data to train his AI models. But I don't fully understand why people perceive, other than just a pure violation of people's privacy, and getting access to your data and what they could do with that data.
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I mean, if these people who have access to all of our information truly think we are cruel and deceitful people, that's probably not, you know, that's not that comforting. But what is the fear or the concern beyond just the circumvention of the democratic and constitutional norm?
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This just feels, I think, you know, I don't know what the definition, you know, if you talk about gluttony, I think America, unfortunately, is paying the price for so much security. I don't think they realize how many people do not wish us well around the world.
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And that they're fairly sophisticated and they understand how to use data and how to weaponize it. Yeah. and how many people work so hard and take huge risks to try and protect us. And then a lot of that effort, decades of skill, effort, sacrifices being just kind of thrown out the window. And until, I mean, it just goes to these very basics.
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The biggest takers and the people most upset and the people who want to tear down the government, Are the people benefiting the most from these programs? I mean, the reality is, Cara, is you're in my life. It's not going to change that much.
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You know what, though? I get that. But if America's... I mean, we're now in an economic weight class where we can move to Milan or something. It just doesn't make... It's just so incredible that the people who seem to be most... It's like they're burning their own house down. Look at the regions that we're so deep red. They're the ones that benefit the most from these programs.
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Either you're weak or you have an incredible bias, a misogynist. If the man says something about you and you keep going after the woman who's near him, that just implies incredible weakness on your part.
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So my attitude is, okay, you want your Medicaid. You don't want your insulin. You don't want your kid. You don't want a school in that rural town mandated by the federal government. You don't want your uncle in veteran affairs. I mean, fine. Okay. Here's the country you wanted.
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I realize you don't need protecting. I don't. I just found it. He puts your name first like you did that. I was me.
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I think it's Ruth Ben-Ghiat, is that her name? Ben-Ghiat, mm-hmm. She summarized it. I think it was her. If it was another historian, I'm sure I'll hear about it. But she said, most democracies are driven institutionally, that at the end of the day, the courts rule. And then kind of the slow burn to fascism or a dictatorship is you move to a paternalistic model. And that's the right term.
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And I'm the deceitful Scott Galloway.
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It's this father where you decide this guy knows better than everybody else. And we kind of, you get the government you deserve. And that is, this guy was freely and fairly elected by a country that decided it's okay to be a convicted felon. And so he now believes, and he has the incentive structure and the results to show it. that he can be elected president despite being a convicted felon.
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So why on earth would he not believe and others who support him not believe that he's above the law? America basically said, okay, he's above the law and he gets to make these decisions now.
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And haven't we given him all these green lights and say, yeah, just break the law. It's okay. Just move. Don't go around institutions. The law no longer applies to you. We're moving to this paternalistic government structure that is kind of more tightly associated with dictatorships and democracies.
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Makes sense. I mean, I'm so sort of overwhelmed and having... Sorry, did I just depress you? I mean, I'm having a difficult time processing every sort of destruction of our institutions and what felt like, what feels like everything, the pillars of what we thought we could rely on and sort of default to, that judges matter, that laws matter, that institutions matter, that there's a
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level of mutual respect that you don't hack the government and stop payments to people in need. And it definitely feels like the operator, we've pressed the reset button and we're not entirely sure what's going to happen when it reboots back up.
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Yeah, but there's, I agree with you, and that was my narrative kind of coming in when I was told to understand the assignment and support Biden and Harris, which I agreed to and signed up for for a lot of reasons. But what a lot of America has said is the narrative that you throw a bunch of numbers at me about the market and our prosperity.
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And all I know is this all reverse engineers, in my opinion, to income inequality and people being reminded every day that they seem to be the only people that aren't succeeding. And that they're left behind, that their kids, they can't afford them. 40% of Americans now have some form of medical or dental debt.
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I think there needs to be a new crop of leadership that comes out with really dramatic bolts. So I'd like to, you know, let's lower Medicaid two years every year for the next 25 years until we have nationalized medicines. There just needs to be some really big, bold ideas from the left as opposed to burn everything down.
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And these discussions, I don't even want to entertain these discussions with the right right now, because as far as I'm concerned, No, I'm not going to engage in a conversation with you. You're trying to foment an illegitimate forum around this discussion. You have, in my opinion, you're trespassing and you're illegally hacking our government systems without government oversight.
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And I just don't think we should even, you know, sure, talk about how outrageous it is.
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Well, when I moved to London— within kind of six months, I just gained a new appreciation for America in terms of the viscosity, the risk aggressiveness. In general, people start from a position of yes, they're optimistic. There's just a shit ton of opportunity. Our universities are just incredible. Our entrepreneurs are incredible.
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I generally think that in the wild in America, people are generous, really decent people. I'm so impressed with our It sounds weird. I miss my students. I miss the service. We used to have this wonderful program, like a GI Bill. All these incredibly talented young people who went to work in government. America works... America works less bad than any other nation in the world.
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And I think a lot of citizens in the United States are about to find out that government isn't as bad as they think. And they're really going to miss it when it gets shut down, when they stop. You know, the FAA does an amazing job. Veterans Affairs Department, sure, there's a lot of waste. But the reason why, one of the reasons we are
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you know, respected around the world and get the best treaties and have 700 military bases is because we have all these people who are willing to sign up and put themselves in harm's way. And then when they come back, we attempt to reasonably honor them and take care of them. People are about to find out just how well actually American government does work.
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And if you have to move to London or if you have to have your benefits taken away and find out what happens when these institutions collapse, okay, so be it.
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I hope the collateral damage isn't as enormous as it likely will be, but I just feel like we're dealing with a series that Americans have become, everybody has a tendency to say Americans, I think they're fucking spoiled children at this point. I don't think they realize how fortunate they are at the largesse and inefficiency of government.
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Yeah, I know. We're awful.
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There you go. I have two wins. I don't know what platform it's on, but I'm fascinated with this woman. She's a historian and staff writer at The Atlantic named Ann Applebaum.
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And I'm learning a lot from her, and I think she has a very measured and thoughtful way of looking at history and relating it to what's going on now. So I would recommend everyone tune in or do a search for Ann Oppelbaum on Instagram. on Instagram. And then I'm going to have another win because I'm too freaked out to have too many fails. I've been watching The Penguin and it's actually just okay.
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It's not what you expect. It's good. It's not great.
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But Colin Farrell, is that his name? Is it Colin Farrell?
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Well, you know, look, we get it wrong sometimes. But just keep in mind, both Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway, we live with our children. And so we got that going for us. And we're not giving Nazi salutes.
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He's, I mean, my God. He's- Transformed. Jesus. I think it went a lot, because you know what they like? They want you to play someone who's mentally disabled or overweight, or they want you to transform into someone else- A lot of costume happening with him, yeah. Supposedly it took four hours every time, but he is, I mean, it's just fascinating to kind of watch him and how good he is.
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It's hard not to take your eyes off his performance. So I think it's just, I think his performance is, is just incredible. I think occasionally, you know, Walter White in Breaking Bad, I forget the actor's name. You know, occasionally there's a performance, the guy who was- Brian Cranston. But this is that kind of role. And it's just, just as an unwind, just to appreciate this guy's craft.
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And he's, you know, he's so handsome and he's so, I've never thought of him. I do think, you know, we were talking about Brad Pitt. I think really exceptionally good looking people don't get the credit they deserve as actors. Yeah.
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And you know what he did? He had to do four hours of makeup to make him really, really ugly for you to realize what a good actor he is. But anyways, My Windsor and Applebaum and The Penguin with Colin Farrell.
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And a handsome man. There you go. Have you seen the one with Nicole Kidman where she's banging the insurance?
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I think you're being ageist.
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She was the young, hot Nicole Kidman you enjoy.
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What did you think of the commercial with Harry Met Sally when they redid? Did you see that? They redid the scene?
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Don't watch it. It's depressing because you realize how old you are because they look like Democratic congresspeople storming the Department of Education.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
The revolution begins with two podcasts.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
You're an amazing father. To the best of my knowledge, I have not hired video game players to pretend they're me such that I can go on podcasts and say I'm a world-class video game player. I'm not creating fake accounts to call myself an amazing dad. I do a lot of virtue signaling around my fatherhood, but I haven't gone that far. And so far, I am not addicted to ketamine.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I want to see Wicked. It's supposed to be fantastic. I want to see it. And she's supposed to be an immense talent. And I like Ariana Grande there.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I'm going to bring you back. I'm going to make you watch Nicole Kidman have orgasms.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Well, that wasn't on my bingo card either. So, yeah, that's not going to happen.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
We're going to go see Wicked.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertide interviewed in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Averio, and Dan Shulan. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back on Friday for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Please judge Cara and me by the enemies we've made.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I have shown some discipline around that. I'm willing to try.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I'm willing to try. No, I didn't. I didn't get there. I just went out and drank instead. I had something called – I had two mezcal margaritas and half an edible, and that worked for me. That all worked.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Oh, I got to tell you, I had – I'm sorry, I keep bringing this back to me. I had lunch with Chris Anderson from TED.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And he sat down and it was so lovely. You know what he said to me? He looked at me and he's like, me and Jacqueline, his wife, who's lovely. He's like, are you all right? I'm like, yeah, well, I mean, I'm no less fucked. I'm more fucked up than I usually am. People after hearing that podcast are worried about me and taking me out to lunch and sitting me down.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
He goes, no, no, really, no, really, Scott, are you? Are you all right? And also, would you be willing to come back and do another talk?
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
He's like he's basically it's kind of a gangster move. I don't know if you've heard about this. He said, I'm giving Ted away. And of course, he's going to give it away to some billionaire who put a bunch of money behind it. But he has basically decided to give Ted. He needs every Democrat. Over the age of 100, like 40, 50% of them needs to take a note out of the Chris Anderson page book.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
He's a great fiduciary for organization. He thinks Ted plays an important role. He's like, it is time to bring someone more youthful and vigorous and some new ideas to this thing. And he's going to give it away. And he's doing this big competition to give Ted away. I think it's the right thing to do.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
He's on the last helicopter out of the Saigon embassy. I wanted so out.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I answered him the same way I always answer that question. I hate my life less and less every day. Things are going pretty well.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Wasn't that nice? Although I'm glad I didn't have to read, I guess there's 11 or 12,000 comments. The same thing happens whenever this happens. My guess is it wasn't talking about your gray hair and my broad shoulders. But whenever you're on tweets, the same thing happens. My phone starts blowing up. I'm like, are you all right? I'm like, oh, shit, did something bad happen?
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Yeah, but this notion that like, I'm not, this shit used to bother me.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I feel like I'm turning into one of those villains that gets energy from attacks. I love that this guy hates me.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
We're doing some right, Kara.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Yeah, we're headed that way? I don't know, but you pointed it out.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Look, let's just get to the source here. It's just so clear the guy wants to fuck me.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I get it. And he's rich, so there is a shot here. There is a shot here. He is very rich. I could maybe go there. Like three mezcal margaritas.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
At this point, Cara, I have an open mind.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Oh, I would definitely marry Bezos because I'd like to roam around in a thong on one of his yachts. I think that would be a good look for me. I'd be willing to embarrass myself. They go to the best parties.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Oh, my God, the fashion I get to wear. I'm so down for a lot of cosmetic surgery. Oh, my God. I just decided I'm coming back as Lauren Sanchez in my next life.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Oh, God. I want Zuck to put on one of those jujitsu outfits and start manhandling me a little bit. Ooh. And then a few things go the wrong place. Oh, yeah. Let's get ready to rumble. Oh, my God. And I'm not going to say kill because I don't even think it's funny to joke about violence. It's just a game. It's just a party game. I am Lauren Sanchez, and I'm making sweet, sweet love to the Zuck.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And then someone sent me a screenshot. And I'm like, I don't know. The thing about being off of Twitter is you realize how small it is. It's like, no, my life is absolutely no different. And the thing that that immediately came to mind is one of my favorite quotes of FDR is that I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I think this is a rich man's version of I'm invading Greenland. I think this is a distraction. So first off, I got to be clear, I got to do more research here, but essentially what they've done accidentally or unintentionally is by starting out as a nonprofit and then pretending that they would maintain some fidelity to the nonprofit once they smelled
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
hundreds of billions in potential shareholder value, they accidentally created a two-class shareholder company. And that is they have essentially some shareholders, the nonprofit, that have a lot of governance rights. And the for-profit group is raising money at a $300 or $350 billion valuation.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
And Musk has found a way to try and create a cudgel or, according to him, essentially get control of, if you will, the voting shares by taking over the nonprofit side of OpenAI. Now, what this really does is is probably force them to pay more in their negotiations, I think, since the last round on what they're going to pay or what share of the equity the nonprofit gets in the for-profit.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
But be clear, this is based on the false pyramid, the statement that you just read that he's concerned.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Well, look at his investors. WME and Barron Capital aren't going to put billions of dollars up to try and protect the world from AI. That's not why they make investments. They would be, as soon as possible, their investors here of this $97.5 billion bid would be looking for a return on their capital. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
I think what this is at the end of the day, is I think this is an attempt to slow him down. I think he sees this as a free call option. I'm going to fuck with a guy, slow him down. I want Grok or XAI to be, I don't like this guy. I've convinced a bunch of people to come in with me. And if for some reason we manage to get control of the voting class shares of the nonprofit, then good for me.
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
What are your thoughts?
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Elon's OpenAI Bid, Trump's Judicial Strategy, and DOGE's Shock and Awe
Let me just let me just add, though, these were my comments.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Listen, everyone experiences it. Someone was like, you never experienced it. I'm like, I literally spent all the last three. I have some procedures arguing with insurance companies, like a lot in a very irritating way of very important tests for me, you know, as an older lady. So I get that. I don't get the murder. I get the rage at the same time. But go ahead.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Where are you, Scott? Today, where are you? I'm in San Francisco. I just got here last night.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
That story is devastating. I can't imagine young Scott Kelly dealing with that. And I do have more means, but I have to say most of the most frustrating times of my life are dealing with health care, whether it's appointments, whether it's getting information, whether it's understanding it. And let me just say, I am an irritating person. True that. And I'm educated.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Every time I do this, I think, what if you couldn't understand it? I find dealing with computer fix-it things easier than that. And you're just confused, and you're turned around, and you get a stupid no, and then you have to call and argue with them. It is. It is. It got me.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
It's like literally the most frustrating part of dealing with having lots of kids and getting them health care, whether it's dental or whatever. Nobody understands it. It's so I'm always working over money, even though I have insurance and always arguing over care. And I am the lucky one.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Oh, not like a TV shoot. I was like, you always do a TV shoot. It's a big deal.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
It has. It has. I think you can have two things happening at once. You can be horrified by this. And also, I think I don't like it. See, unfortunately, everything gets reduced. You're either against this murder and then therefore a rich person doesn't understand or you understand what happens. Like, I do think it's a warning signal. The fact that this guy is becoming an unfortunate folk hero.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yes. Yes. It had a lot of, you know, OJ vibe to it in that regard. Right. It had a kind of that you deserve this kind of thing. Anyway, we'll see. It's going to be an ongoing story. And these companies are certainly on notice. That's for sure. Anyway, let's get to our first big story.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
A federal appeals court has upheld a law that could lead to TikTok getting banned next month if TikTok parent company ByteDance does not divest. A panel of three judges denied TikTok's petition last week, saying ByteDance's ownership represents a national security threat, rejecting the argument the law violates the First Amendment, that national security trumps the First Amendment in this case.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
TikTok has just asked the appeals court to temporarily block or pause the law so the Supreme Court can review the case. It'll be interesting to see. What do you think of the ruling? It's not clear what Trump will do or if he can do anything. It's a law. They're going to have to change the law, as many in Congress pointed out, which he certainly can do with control of the House and Senate.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
He's been a big flip-flopper on TikTok because one of his biggest donors was a big TikTok investor, Jeff Yass. I don't know if there's a buyer. There's several buyers. Bobby Kotick is in there. Frank McCourt seems to be in there. Steve Mnuchin has been in there. I don't see the Chinese letting this happen, but there's a lot of winners who have emerged. Let me just end on your thoughts, Scott.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
MetaShares rose 2.4% and closed at a record high on Friday following the news of this ruling. And SnapShares are very up because they're obviously the original version of this. I think they're all hoping the ban happens, but will it? Thoughts? And it is unclear what Trump can do, but it's certainly onerous, the stuff he's got to do.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And then there's the Supreme Court, obviously, who's going to take this up, no question.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Owners. You're saying U.S. owners, just to be clear for listeners.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I don't know. I think they have to do that, right? I think the Supreme Court is the one that's going to weigh in here.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Well, I think they're going to. I talked to a bunch of lawyers this week, and they all said yes, they were going to, that they thought they were going to. So it's too good. It's too good at one. You know what I mean? There's a lot happening here. It's national security versus First Amendment versus ownership and capitalism. There's too much good stuff in here for them not to weigh in.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I don't know. That was the thoughts of people who watch this stuff when I talk to them. But if they do, it'll be interesting. I mean, I think they can change the law. That's what I understand. I think you can't do this by executive order at this point. Again, enforcement is one thing. But there's too much attention on this thing and too many financial interests at stake.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
They have to find a solution. The question is the Chinese are the wild card here. How are they going to react? They certainly have been hostile to this for a long time. Then is it worth anything as I told you Mark Cuban pointed out to me, is it worth anything without the algorithm? What are they buying? What are these people buying?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I have to talk to, I don't know Steve Mnuchin, but I do know Frank and Bobby. I should probably just call them and ask them what their reasoning is. Anyway, we'll see. But watch that space. I think it's going to be a big deal and it matters to companies like Snap is really benefiting from this as it would make sense. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
When we come back, Trump reveals his new AI and crypto czar. We'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Vivian Tu, about becoming Gen Z's financial guru. Scott, we're back. President-elect Donald Trump named investor, podcaster, and Elon Musk minion David Sachs to a newly created role of AI and crypto czar.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Trump said in an announcement that Sachs will safeguard free speech online and steer us away from big tech bias and censorship. Like Elon Sachs, will be a special government employee. He will reportedly still remain with his VC fund, of course, and won't have to go through Senate confirmation, thank goodness. for him. This is not someone I like in any way, as I've reported on for many years.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
He ran a bunch of different companies, sold one to Microsoft, one of the lesser financial social medias, I can't even forget the name of it. Made some money, has spent a lot of time following Musk around, that seems to be, or other smarter people like Peter Thiel at PayPal. He was one of the PayPal mafia, but I wouldn't say he was Tony Soprano in any way. I don't know.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I don't know what he's going to do. I think he's a blowhard. I think he is unpleasant. I don't know what to say. He said I had the single most vitriolic voice in the tech ecosystem. So he's not a fan of mine. I wrote, I would look at some of the reporting I did on Saks. Some of it was good. He was a decent entrepreneur. I wouldn't say he was the top entrepreneur I ever dealt with. It's fine.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And I wrote a story about him in 2016 that he didn't like much about apologizing for parts of a book he co-wrote with Peter Thiel in the 1990s where he said rape was, sometimes rape was belated regret. It was really, and he apologized for it. That wasn't great. You know, whatever, he did that. I just don't like the cut of his jib, as they say. I don't know what he's going to do.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I don't know if there's any real influence here. But he certainly, he spoke at the Republican National Convention. He did a big fundraiser for Trump. He likes to pontificate on Twitter. He's just a blowhard. We'll see. We'll see if he has real power to do anything. He'll certainly terrorize people on Twitter and et cetera, things like that. Any thoughts?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
He's part of the gang there.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
That is just so- I'm not sure. That was Yoel. I was something else. But yeah, in that range, Yoel Roth was the definition of pure. I can't remember. They always do it. They dunk on everybody. But go ahead.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Was it quail? My uncle, my aunt's husband, he's since died, was a big hunter with dogs. And he raised those dogs and sold them to people, those pointers and everything. They were gorgeous, those dogs. And he did quail hunting. That's what he did. Anyway, we got a lot to get today, including TikTok's latest legal setback and Trump's new AI and crypto czar.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And they're not here to help everybody, right? Once you get that job, I think you do rise to the fucking occasion and like treat everybody equal. But like Sam Altman took to X after the Saks announcement to post his congratulations in this polite way. Elon responded with a laughing, crying emoji. These guys are like, it's just ridiculous. They're like, oh, now we're running the bar, right?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
That kind of thing. By the way, the Elon tweet was, I have rarely seen evil in as pure a form as Yoel Roth, and Kara Swisher's heart is filled with seething hate.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah. Yeah. I just think they're not in it for everyone. They're in it for themselves. And so, like, you know, if you get this fucking job, David, act like you work for the whole United States of America. Don't take part in this juvenile... Listen, I don't like this guy.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
No conflict, no interest, right? No interest, no conflict, whatever, whatever. Remember that is? No conflict, no interest, that kind of thing. It's so cynical. It is not about the United States of America. They will favor their friends. They will hurt their enemies. It feels like that. Like that's where we're headed. And that's what like a rinky-dink third world country does.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I'm sorry, it's not the United States of America. You know, all the minions are coming in. I call them the minions.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
SPAC mania. Oh, God. These people, again, they're so poor, all they have is money. Another Elon minion and tech billionaire joining the team, Jared Isaacman, has been nominated for NASA Administrator. Isaacman is a founder and CEO of payment processing company Shift4, which makes him, he's flown to space twice on commercial SpaceX missions. Obviously, he's qualified. Yeah. running NASA, whatever.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Someone, not a fave of Kara Swisher's, but oh well. Plus, our friend of Pivot is Vivian Tu. She's the host of the Vox Media podcast, Net Worth and Chill. And she's built a huge following on social media where she goes by Your Rich BFF, giving financial advice to millions, sort of like a female Scott.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
This is like, you know, then he can get, send these contracts to SpaceX, which has a lot of them, but there's no facade of fairness in any of this. It's all like Elon's guys. Like this is like, like throughout the thing. And I guess, you know, he spent a quarter of a billion, quarter billion dollars to help Trump win the election. And I guess to the victor goes the spoils.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
In a third world country, most of the money went through his America PAC, although Elon also gave $20 million. He was the only funder to the RBG PAC, a super PAC that suggested Trump and the late Justice Ginsburg were aligned on abortion rights. Her family is horrified, and he was the funder of this. It's still the single best investment of the year, possibly the century.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And as you remember, he said he wasn't going to be donating to either candidate earlier this year in March. I called him out on that, said he was lying. And it turns out I was correct. But he gets all the stuff. There we are.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I can see them sitting in a room. Can you see them sitting in a room? What do you want to be? Why don't you run CIA? You like James Bond movies.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah, I know. It's seriously, it's pay for play. It's coin-op presidency. It's just like, my favorite is lying about it back in March. When I said that, I got... by the Elon. I'm like, he's totally backing Trump. Give me a break. He's going to hand over money and buy influence, essentially, not allegedly. But it seemed so obvious to me that this was going to do. But yeah, he's doing a play.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
No, but I'm excited. This was a suggestion by you, I believe. Anyway, but first, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has placed Google under federal supervision. The agency specifically had concerns with Google Pay, which was largely shut down earlier this year. The move could subject Google to regular inspections and monitoring, typical in banks.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
As usual, Elon is innovative. Innovative Elon in terms of this. This has been going on for centuries.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Anyway, well, we'll see where it goes. Good luck, Dave. The only thing I'm upset about is they're going to be in Washington now, and I might run into them. I escaped. I crossed the country to get away from these people, and there they are. There are going to be odds that I'll run into each of these chodes. I'm just like, fuck. What the fuck? Get out of my town.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I'm seething. I'm seething with like, oh, for fuck's sake. That's what I'm seething with. Anyway, so let's bring in our friend of Pivot. Vivian Tu is the host of the Vox Media podcast, Net Worth and Chills. She's also known as your rich BFF on social media, where she's become a financial guru of sorts, dispensing advice and tips to millions of followers. Vivian, welcome.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Thank you so much for having me. There's been iterations of what you're doing for many years in lots of newspapers I used to work for, all kinds of stuff. And I just love this kind of thing. But what you're doing is really particularly important for young people. So for people not familiar with your rich BFF, can you explain what it's about?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And you find a way, as many writers in this area do, to make it understandable and accessible, especially to young people. I'd love to know what you think traditional media gets wrong when it comes to financial literacy. So explain what Rich BFF is and then how is it different from previous iterations of this?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And talk about what are you aiming at? What is Rich BFF mean? Is it just, you know, because it's fun on social media or what's the what's the concept behind it?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Google filed an immediate lawsuit against the agency to block its oversight. Well, it's anti-regulatory time. So I guess they're going to try to do, you know, do... They're trying to get... Elon's trying to get rid of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. We'll see if he can do that. But what do you think of this?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I don't... I think they're trying to do things before Trump gets in here and denuters this entire thing. I mean... what's incredible is all these companies want to be banks, want to be this, want to be that, want to do money, but they don't want any regulation whatsoever that everyone else is subject to.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah, maximize things like that on that, especially the matching stuff. Obviously, the stock market's been on a tear. People are worried about it being on a tear right now. And most people in the stock market are people that look like Scott, right? Everyone's not in the Scott stock market. It's a small group of people, but it tends to affect us mentally.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yes, that's it. It's more diverse than you think.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
But oddly enough, they tend to look the same. So what do you think the biggest, I'm just teasing, I tease, I tease. What do you think the biggest change for the economy and markets when Trump takes office? Obviously, he just said he wasn't going to try to get rid of Jerome Powell. Who knows? He could change his mind in seconds if he doesn't like something. But what are you looking at?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Obviously, there could be a big stock rally. Does that matter? You know, there could be a tax cut. Does that matter? What are you looking at?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And while there might be too much regulation on banks or whatever, you know what happens when there isn't. And so they'll do anything possible to push back on any possible protection of consumers in any aspect of their businesses. no matter what it is, whether it's teens becoming depressed or killing themselves, whether it's banks that could be dangerous.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And she said on this interview yesterday, he's like, yeah, it could cost more. Oh, well.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah. I was talking to some of my relatives who have lesser jobs than I do. They're more paycheck to paycheck people. And they were doing their dunking on me, like, oh, Trump won. I'm like, good for my money. Yeah. I was like, you realize I will do great and you will not. Just FYI. But thanks for the vote. Like, I didn't know what to say.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Like, I was like, are you... But no, they think they're going to do better. They do.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
They don't want any monitoring whatsoever, and that's the trend that's going forward. I don't know what else to say. This group is probably worried about what's to come. We'll see what's going to happen.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah. So you have this big TikTok following. Are you concerned? What's the plan?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Right. Absolutely. Don't listen to them. You don't have to be hip. So one financial tip or habit you'd recommend for people going into the U. I have two sons just understanding money now. I spend a lot of time them learning about things like paying the rent and costs. And my one son's leaving college and I'm like, so what are you going to do to make money?
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
It's like, you know, the mom train is ending soon or relatively soon. So what financial tip or habit would you recommend besides getting a job, obviously, going into the new year?
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Excellent answer. Excellent answer. It depends. It also is what it is. You know what the job happens to be. You know, something that you like. You can't like things.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
No, it wasn't. But you should also like what you're doing. If you can, if you can like it. It doesn't have to make a lot of money, but then you have to adjust what the lifestyle is.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Okay, perfect. Vivian, we'll have you back and talk to us about Bitcoin. We're not going to go into it right now in time, but we'll talk about that next. All right, because a lot of young people are waiting.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I think she's fantastic. You're coming on again.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Oh, she does. Speaking of which, people can find you on social media. You're rich, BFF, and your podcast is Net Worth and Chill. What a good name. Thank you so much, Vivian.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Thank you guys so much for having me. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. You go first this week.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
They've changed, but go ahead.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah, yeah. I remember he didn't come off rather well. He seemed dumb.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Those are great ones. I'm sure you're going to love this, but I have two actually positive ones and one very short negative one is Taylor Swift's Iris tour is over a record $2 billion in ticket sales. Just crazy. The amount of and the economic impact of this woman is enormous. That's just $2 billion. It doubled the gross of its closest competitor over 21 months, and now it's the end of it.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Congratulations as a business person. So much economic benefit from one person's creativity. Whether you like her or not, Scott, she makes some dough. I never said I didn't like her.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah, that's great. She makes a ton of money. So let me say, what an incredible economic for everybody.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah, I know it did. I liked it. I loved it. But the economic benefits were enormous, just enormous, really quite something. And real money that was based on real things. I really appreciated that. And some of this crypto stuff going on makes me nervous, young men trading. But this was real money made by a really great entrepreneur. So congratulations, Atosha.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And very briefly for another positive, very quick, Dick Van Dyke, dancing in a Coldplay video. Oh, that's great. 99 years old. Amazing dancer. Every year of his life, an amazing, amazing dancer. entertainer, person. If you listen to him talk, what a decent person he is. 99 years, looks fantastic, dancing his life out. Love that Dick Van Dyke.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Love him so much, I can't even say how much I love Dick Van Dyke. And I just had my kids watch Mary Poppins, which he's fantastic. My negative thing, I think, is people, what Biden is going to have to do in the next month, I guess, You know, he's just—the EPA banned two cancer-causing chemicals used in everyday products. They're trying to get in under the wires. One's in dry cleaning.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Trying to get past all these things. He's urged to empty federal death rows before Trump takes office. Pardons. There was a back-and-forth with Liz Cheney, who doesn't seem to want a federal pardon, but— what he's going to do. And some of them, I'm like, ugh, don't do this, because it's against the rule of law, right, in the opposite way.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And the second part is then Trump says members of the January 6th committee should be jailed, he said in an interview. I mean, a Again, third world country antics. And so I don't envy the decisions Joe Biden is going to make because he wants to sort of be the rule of law guy. But at the same time, this is unprecedented for an incoming president to say he wants people doing their jobs.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
The January 6th committee with zero proof, by the way, zero, zero, zero. And everything he said was wrong in that interview with Kristen Welker. doing this. It's threatening. It's demented. It's an escalation in threats to these members. Said they should be prosecuted for their lies. He accused them of treason last year, especially Liz Cheney. And her response... Astonishing. She is a brave.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I don't care what you think of her. She stands for the rule of law. And I know people don't like because of the war stuff, et cetera, et cetera. But just really disturbing that interview in many ways. You should go listen to it. Okay. That's my minutes in advance.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
You will never acknowledge women killing it. Hold on.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
All right. Okay. Anyway, I loved you, Taylor. Good for you.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I didn't think so. Don't go. I don't want to listen to your insulting of it.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
She's amazing. Actually, go see it. She's amazing.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
You should see it. It's long, so get, you know, pee before because of your, you know, elderly issues.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. I also want to mention a powerful interview I just did for On with Kara Swisher.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I spoke to Megan Garcia, whose 14-year-old son took his own life after spending several months interacting with a character AI chatbot. Megan discussed why she's suing Google and Character AI and detailed her claims against these two companies. The question I asked was what she would say to the creators of this technology. Let's listen.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
This was a really tough interview. She's astonishing. And you'll see, it's a very complex story. So I recommend everybody listen to it, Scott. Especially, we talk about this issue a lot.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I agree. You know, one thing that I'll just note very quickly before we go is she has not been approached by any legislator to do something about this. This is just, I am on the frigging phone with these people. And every time I talk to one, I said, you need to listen to this and do something about it.
Pivot
TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Yeah, but let's start with this thing they made. So we'll see where it goes. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Please read us out.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I think this always goes back and forth, but these people are particularly resistant to any regulation whatsoever. I mean, these people hate regulation no matter what. It doesn't matter what you say to them. They would serve you tainted meat if they could, honestly, sometimes. I think I agree with you. It goes back and forth and things can be over-regulated.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
But I think what happened with the SEC and crypto, for example, has gotten this taste in their mouth that they really don't want any regulation. And that's what's going to happen in the new administration. They're going to just strip regulation after regulation, and then there's going to lead to a crisis of some sort, because it always does. I think it'll be over by the time Trump gets in.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
And anyway, we'll see what happens to this board. Omnicom Group has agreed to acquire Interpublic Group in a deal that would create the world's largest advertising company. Scott, I really wanted to hear your thoughts on this. Interpublic has a market value of $11 billion. The two combined would have a net revenue of more than $20 billion.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Omnicom and Interpublic are currently the third and fourth biggest companies, respectively. Will this go through? I mean, I know advertising groups like this are under an enormous amount of pressure. But thoughts? Is it bad for advertising or just helping them keep up? It reminds me a little bit of Hollywood companies with tech companies coming in and just eating their lunch in so many ways.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
So they have to bulk up. I don't know. Thoughts?
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I think WPP is the biggest now, right? WPP.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Let me ask you this question, because whenever I went to those parties or talked to them, I'm always like, what do you do exactly? And they explain it to me. I'm like, what do we need you for? Even back then, I was like, aren't you the middleman? Aren't you between me and the sponsor? It was really interesting.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Even me, little Kara Swisher, was like, with a small little business, I was like, I feel like I don't need to pay you. More and more. I know it sounds crazy, but... They seemed not useful in ways that technology would take care of. I always used to think that.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Did you see the AI ad that Coke did? Just curious.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I get it. When I said AI, there was an ad made by Coca-Cola by AI. And it wasn't bad, I have to say. It wasn't bad.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
I thought they were so small when I saw the numbers. I was like, whoa, these are really small businesses.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
It did remind me of Hollywood. It did. Like, oh.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
It is. It does feel like old Hollywood. It does. Speaking of regulators, Anthem Blue, Cross Blue Shield, has backed off a controversial plan to only pay for anesthesia for a limited amount of time. In case you wake up, the insurer initially announced the plan in mid-November, but as Outrage over healthcare became front page news last week. Outrage over the decision grew.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Politicians, including New York Governor Kathy Hochul, got involved, causing reversal. This is a big, this is a moment for, because of this Brian Thompson murder, I think you're going to see a lot of awareness on the behalf of healthcare companies of the heartlessness that they display towards people. We'll see if there'll be changes, how many politicians will get involved, I'm not sure.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
But certainly, it's a moment, it's certainly a moment that some line has been crossed here, that I think the anger on one side and the relentless pursuit of profits by these companies is sort of meeting each other rather significantly.
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TikTok Ban Looms, Trump's AI and Crypto Czar, and Guest Vivian Tu
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher in my new studio without books behind me, but they will have them. Here I am, Scott.
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Well, I'm going to have awards. My many awards is what I'm going to have.
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So, and Stephanie will point out correctly, like, it's deciding on this one person who has a wrong math and the wrong idea between trade deficits and tariffs and the relationship. Every single thing he's saying is actually wrong. and has this thing in his head that everything has to equal out, that if they buy this, we sell that. We have to sell exactly. And Stephen Miller, same thing.
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Why? Does it upset you? Does it threaten you?
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Why don't they buy American cars? Because Toyotas are better, you dumbass. And they make them here, too. The stupidity is outranked only by, as you were saying, the rule of law, the lack of any consistency, the reliability of the U.S., One, what has to happen here? What do you imagine is going to happen here? Because there's now suddenly Jamie Dimon is speaking.
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Bill Ackman has suddenly found his balls again and is saying something truthful, although he made sure he sucked up to Trump in the beginning of his screed, which was about a nuclear winter in investing, essentially, or in the U.S. economy. What's your advice to people that are panicking right now and trying to figure out what to do with their investments? And then second...
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First, what do you think is going to happen and what's your advice for people if it continues in this way?
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I like it for now. I'm going to leave it because it upsets you. It upsets and disturbs you. You mean it's like retro or that it reminds you of Walt Mossberg who I just had lunch with?
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Also, it's incorrect. One of the people who they base the theories on has written a piece in their time saying they got this totally wrong and they did the math wrong. And it's a quarter. What they should put here is a quarter of what I said. You know, I said a quarter of what they're doing here, which means they don't know how to do math. That's the part that's frightening.
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They actually don't understand what they've done, like pushing the nuclear button. What does this do kind of thing? I don't know. That makes me more nervous.
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I'm going to put your blanket that I stole from the Fife Arms for your birthday.
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I'll put that on. Okay. All right. I'll put it. I'll drape it. I'll drape a Scottish, a Scott Scottish thing on it.
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DEI, that stock. All right. We're going to go to a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit more about the losers and some winners from the Trump tariffs. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Now, just five years into launching in beta, Coda has helped 50,000 teams all over the world get on the same page.
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With Coda, you can get flexibility of documents, the structure of spreadsheets, the power of applications, and the intelligence of AI all built for enterprise. Coda's seamless workspace facilitates deeper collaboration and quicker creativity, giving you more time to build. To get started for free and get six months free of the team plan, coda.io slash pivot.
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Literally. Right out of the gate. Go ahead.
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You were on your college tour. Tell me, but you were away last week. Yeah. With your lovely guest hosts, Jen Psaki and John Lovett. They were great.
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Support for this show comes from Delete.me. There's a whole online industry of data brokers. Things that are really best kept private, like your name, contact info, photos, and addresses, could all be compiled by data brokers and sold online.
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Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com slash pivot code pivot. Scott, we're back. The number of sectors took a beating from Trump's tariff, and it's been particularly rough for big tech.
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They are great. They were very lively.
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In two days after the tariffs were announced, Apple dropped 16%, Meta fell 14%, Amazon was down 13%. Nice job, boys, of going to the inauguration. That really paid off for you. The two-day drop wiped out $31 billion in net worth for Elon Musk at $23 billion for Jeff Bezos and $27 billion for Mark Zuckerberg. I feel so bad for them. How's the investment in Trump paying off now?
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As a reporter of The Weekend, a number of these folks want to go to Mar-a-Lago to talk to him about this. I don't know if they've done it yet, but this was the rumor that was going down that they are really, and also bankers. Elon doesn't seem to agree with Trump on tariffs. And of course, speaking his mind, he said on Saturday that he hoped Europe and the U.S.
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would affect him to zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone. Totally opposite. He also had a couple of posts calling out Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor, who's such an idiot. All the, this I agree with Elon on, all this as EU regulators are reportedly preparing to inflict a billion dollar fine against X for breaking a law to combat illicit content and disinformation.
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That's separate. This is interesting that he's doing that. The person that's looking more like a genius than ever, Warren Buffett, he didn't kiss the Trump wing. He's been growing his cash pile in the last year. He's currently sitting around $334 billion in Never doubt Warren Buffett, I guess. And then also a few losers, fast fashion brands, Shein, a Scott favorite, and Timu.
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Trump has closed the loophole that gave the tariff exemption on goods shipped from China valued under $800. I think it's called de minimis or something like that. It no longer applies as of May 2nd. A lot of people didn't like this loophole. Without the loophole, prices and orders could jump as much as 30%.
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Amazon might also take a hit because they ran into the low-cost storefront powered by China, Chinese goods, cheap Chinese goods. One of the things that was really strange was Scott Besson talking about how Americans shouldn't buy cheap stuff anymore. Too bad. And that's too bad for you, Scott, because you can afford cashmere all the time.
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But that was another message they were sending out is we should get off our cheap goods.
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Yeah, right. Whatever. Like, none of your fucking business, dudes. So talk a little bit about tech, because also the last thing is tech, it sells a lot of services into Europe and cloud computing. Also, so do the McKinsey's of the world. And that's where we have a trade surplus in services, from what I understand. So talk a little bit about why it's impacting tech and, you know, sort of the...
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You see the real cracks in the Elons and the others. Bezos is probably apoplectic. Cook is apoplectic, I'm sure. And Warren Buffett looks, he's 105 years old and he's once again, the goat.
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I think John Lovett's adorable.
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He was on Survivor. Do you know he was on the show Survivor?
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A college tour. Tell me about the college tour, because I really don't want to talk about White Lotus in any way.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you. . . . . . ., en P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a in
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Does it matter? Because we're giving them advantage in this tariff thing. Now we've given them an even bigger thing.
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Winner, winner, chicken dinner. China, China, China. And they were hands down losing.
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Lifeline for China. This has been such a gift to China. Anyway, that's our feelings.
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All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, we're gonna do wins and fails. I think I shall go first. I think win, I really, I love a protest. I thought these hands-off protests were, every city was full. I love seeing them in Turkey. I love like people turning out. I don't know if they work or not, but DC and New York, 100,000 attendees each.
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Okay, so you like them, but you just insulted them, so your son's not getting in there now. But go ahead, move along.
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They were, Amanda went down, I did not. And like average people, it was not like the professional protesters that you might see everywhere. Themes were administration's attacks on Social Security, the layoffs, deportations, Elon Musk, of course. I love the signs. They make me laugh. Ikea has better cabinets, which they really do. Wisconsin hates Elon so much it could be one of his kids.
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abort unwanted presidencies. We're all the couch now. Trump, of course, spent the weekend golfing. I mean, just the visuals couldn't be any better. And I kind of just like it. It gets people in bold. And I don't know if protests matter, but this one had a had a real momentum field, which is nice, and we'll see if that matters or not.
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For the fail, so obvious, 60 Minutes, which is, you know, people talk about the decline of traditional media. People who do real reporting, really, we owe them a debt of gratitude. They did a story on Sunday on Venezuelan migrants who got deported to prison in El Salvador, and their reporting found no criminal records for 75% of those migrants. These people are
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were taken off the street, many of them legally here, and put in a prison. It's literally like a, you know, a movie. It's a movie. It feels like a movie. This is so cruel. And the people who are doing this to people and putting people in prison without any criminal record and sending them to another country they're not even from, I hope they go to jail themselves at some point.
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And pretending they can't take them back. This is grotesque in every single way. Grotesque. So... It's like such an embarrassment. And people aren't paying attention because of all this stuff about the tariffs and the stock market. But boy, what a human rights disaster for us, our country. We have no ability to say we're a good people if we're doing things like that.
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University of, that's what you're talking about.
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I saw her at MSNBC. I was on Jen Psaki's show on Sunday, and I ran into Mallory. She's really impressive.
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Oh, my God. Really? You're not doing this.
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She's the influencer. Go home. Yeah.
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Good congressperson, let me say, for many years. Go home.
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I'm out of here in 10 years.
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You left out law firms, but go ahead.
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I love this, Scott. The lesbian from San Francisco, Scott Galloway, I give you people. All right, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. I love your verb, Scott.
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Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week I spoke with Jeff Lawson, owner of The Onion. Oh, what a great guy this guy is in terms of what he's done there. Let's listen to a clip.
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Let's move it through. Okay, keep going.
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Anyway, really interesting guy. He's, you know, he's trying to keep it. I love The Onion. I think they do a great job and he's sort of saved it in a lot of ways. Anyway, his name's Jeff Lawson. It was great. And he loves Scott Gallery. So he had to make one penis joke.
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They're doing all kinds of cool things. And he really did save it in a lot of ways. Just a small little contribution. He's a billionaire too. He was at Twilio. He had a big activist investor thing, sort of toss him out. But really interesting guy. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.
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Scott, read us out and be very indignant. I like it.
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Write a college tour book.
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You better be careful because he loves you and I'm his mom.
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I proved that the end result has nothing to do with where you begin. You can make a decision at any point in your life to move forward differently.
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Okay. Moving along. So Alex took you on a tour, I understand.
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Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's just a quick jaunt or a long journey, Chevy's all-electric Equinox EV has you covered with a massive 17.7-inch diagonal touchscreen and starting at around $34,995, you can hit the road and still afford snacks. Equinox EV, a vehicle you know, a value to expect, and a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing.
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He said he liked it. He said you seem to enjoy being there.
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There are only four colleges in here. Alex gave you a tour.
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Is that the AOC College, or did she go to Boston University?
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I feel like Boston University is where she went.
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Great school. They're just. Great vibe.
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Another school people love, the two schools where they talk about it to this day is UNC and Michigan. They love their schools. They love their schools.
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No, see, you know it. All right. Well, don't say anything.
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You need to move to North Carolina. That's what you need to do.
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Learn more at chevy.com forward slash Equinox EV. The manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.
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Next week. All right. We have a lot. By the way, when you were gone, things happened, my friend. Lots of things happened.
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The world did not keep spinning. The world is crashing. We're on a, let's get right in. Let's get in. Markets are on a roller coaster as we record Monday morning following an epic two-day dive last week, epic in a bad term, that destroyed $6 trillion in market value thanks to Donald Trump's tariffs, which seem like inane in the way they were formulated. U.S.
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stocks tumbled at the opening bell today, briefly surged following a report that Trump was considering a 90-day pause, which many are suggesting to him, including Democrats. Jamie Dimon and others, from bankers and other people. The White House quickly called that report fake news, and the current Dow S&P 500 are currently back in the red. So a lot of volatility, to say the least.
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Who knows what Trump will do? In fact, he seems to be sticking by his guns. We'll get to winners and losers from these tariffs a little later, but we've seen overall, we've been seeing Goldman Sachs has raised the odds of a U.S. recession of 45%. As Larry Summers put it, this is the biggest self-inflicted wound we've put on our economy in history.
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In terms of retaliation, China was quick to respond, imposing a 34% tariff on all goods imported from the U.S. starting on April 10th. Trump said he's going to impose an additional 50% on China if they don't drop that 34% increase. And of course, the TikTok deal went out the window. The EU is expected to present a united front in the coming days with a set of targeted countermeasures.
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Let me read a couple more things. This retaliation move, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who looks unhappy, said over the weekend that more than 50 countries are starting negotiations with the U.S. since the tariff announcement, whatever, probably like the penguins, maybe. Though Trump also said, my policies will never change.
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Howard Lutnick, who seems like the biggest clown of all, besides Peter Navarro, which are the two faces of this, also offered his take on how tariffs will lead to a manufacturing resurgence in the U.S. on Face the Nation. This quote, I literally was like, this is the dumbest person I've ever met. So let's go. Let's listen to that and then we'll get some reaction from you.
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He's an idiot. I don't know what else to say. The screws, the robots, whatever he said. Last thing, sorry, Mark Cuban said, one thing the terrorists are going to spur is smuggling or resurgence. Mark Cuban said that and noted that maybe that's what the border patrol money is used for. So reaction.
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Like he's doing us a favor. I agree. He had the tone, the awkwardness aside, which was heavy here. He had a tone of like, I'm here to save you by giving you bots. So instead of having three friends, you'll have probably no friends and 15 bot friends, which is pathetic.
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Yeah, it's really, that was, he just doesn't even understand. The part that got me, and I was at an AI thing last night in Los Angeles, but is this idea, and this woman who's a sort of combined ethics issues and philosophy and AI person, The thing is, it didn't even occur to him to fix the loneliness problem in a way that included people, without any sense of irony. You know what I mean?
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Like, here's my solution for this, and it's bad, right? There was no irony whatsoever of what he was saying, that this was the way to go. Anyway, it was a very disturbed, I have to say, it was disturbed by every aspect. And I thought, this guy needs a PR person to get him to stop talking. But maybe it's good that you see this or something else. But he's gotten worse and more, I would say, twisted.
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I don't know what else to say. It's so strange and awkward and breathy and laughing at his own jokes. It's really quite disturbing to me.
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It's gotten to be something else, but go ahead.
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I guess what I have to say is he really believes this bullshit more than ever, I feel like. He really thinks he has all the answers. And it was a tone of voice.
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Did you hear me give you a shout-out?
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You're not into distractions, are you? I like this. I like the very clear Scott. You don't want distractions. Enough of this shit.
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Library laureate. Let's talk about someone that we all like. We'll go on a quick break and we come back. Warren Buffett is stepping down. What a legend. Support for this show comes from Coda, powered by Grammarly.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
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Yeah, except for the woke woman thing at the end. But let's listen to me.
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Oh, you mean the fact that- No, I don't want to talk about it. I made a face and everybody noticed. Oh, okay. It was stupid. He keeps going on and on about this woman on Love is Blind. He's obsessed with her because she rejected the man. He just didn't like him. So let's listen to me calling you out.
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Scott, we're back. Warren Buffett, the 94-year-old Oracle of Omaha, is stepping down as CEO of Berkshire Hathaway after 60 years at the helm. The surprise announcement shocked many shareholders at the company's annual meeting over the weekend. He's been aging, and I think he always knows himself well.
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Buffett named Greg Abel, Berkshire Hathaway's vice president of non-insurance operations, his successor. But he also said he'll hang around in a supporting role and plans to remain chairman. In addition to the big news, Buffett weighed on what's happening with tariffs, saying trade should not be a weapon. Let's listen.
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It's the idea that you're the madman theory, this idea that he's playing, I don't know, the 4D chess thing. I mean, as Scott Galloway on our podcast said, it's like, he's not playing 4D chess, he's eating the chess pieces. And he's... Which is a good joke. I have to attribute it to Scott. But there's no point in being chaotic because businesses can't plan. They don't know what to do next.
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You know, it just makes sense. We also had a lot of stuff about kindness that was lovely. As the Wall Street Journal put it, there's only one Warren Buffett and there'll never be another. I'm going to start talking about his legacy. I was lucky enough to talk to him many times, and I'm hoping maybe one or two more times.
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I one time called him because he was a very, I called Berkshire Hathaway because he wasn't doing any internet investing at the beginning and I wanted to know why when I was working at the journal. And I called and I got the secretary and she said, and I thought, she said, can you hold please? I said, I have a question for Mr. Buffett. You know, and I assumed I was going to get to the PR person.
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Phone clicks in and it's Warren Buffett. He's like, hi. And I was like, hi. And we talked about the internet and why he didn't invest in it. He later invested and made a spectacular investment in Apple. But it was really interesting. And I ended up having dinner with him because I have a friend who's on the board. And just as he's really so sharp, so interesting, so lovely.
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I met Greg Abel, who also seemed terrific. Obviously, Charlie Munger, who recently died. Another great. All the people around him are great. I don't know what else. He just surrounds himself with really great. high quality, common sense people. And a lot of what he said in this last appearance was just common sense about kindness, about trade, whatever he says seems so plain spoken.
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You know, not everything he's done has been perfect, that's for sure. But I just find this to be the kind of person you want to be leaders of leaders in society. And it just so happens this guy happens to be an investor. Any thoughts from you?
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Well, he was just so... This office, which is the simplest office you're ever going to see, I was surprised when I went there. There's not many people there. And that was a big role.
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Even Kevin McCarthy did enjoy that one, eating the chess pieces.
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Thank you. I knew you said that. What about what I said? What about the substance of what I said?
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And that means your people can focus on the work they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started at servicenow.com slash AI dash agents.
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Yeah, I thought he's just, you know what? Hats off to Warren Buffett.
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He's just a real classy guy. Terrific guy. Anyway, we're going to move on, but Warren, good job. One of the most delightful dinners I've had with really well-known people. He also ate much of my meal. I couldn't believe how much that man put away, and he's still walking around steak, some onion thing, a bunch of potatoes. Anyway, it was a completely enjoyable meal, and I was lucky.
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I was privileged to have dinner with him. Anyway, a couple of quick things. Apple and Amazon reported earnings late last week. It was after we had talked. Both companies had strong quarters. Apple had $95 billion in revenue and nearly $25 billion in profit. Wow, what a juggernaut. iPhone sales were up, too, hitting almost $47 billion.
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Amazon had $156 billion in revenue and profit was $17 billion, up 64 percent, though the cloud business is trailing Microsoft. But tariffs remain a cause for concern for these companies, more obvious problems for these two companies than, say, a Google or a Meta. Tim Cook said tariffs could cost Apple $900 million this quarter, even with the company moving to manufacturer status.
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Most iPhones in India, they're trying to do that. Amazon noted tariffs and trade policies and recessionary fears are among the range of factors that could make guidance subject to change. They were just signaling it. Just for people who don't know, Jeff Bezos planned to sell up to 25 million shares in the company over the next year. Probably pretty typical, these sales that happen.
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This is a big chunk. Very briefly, because I want to get to these Trump tariffs on Hollywood really quickly, but thoughts on the results for those two?
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And by the way, it is Kuiper. I got called by the Amazon people.
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It's Kuiper. You were right. You were correct. It's Kuiper, not Cooper. It's after some astronomer or something like that. I forget. I should go look. But we got it wrong. I got it wrong. But yeah, I think they're just still signaling. We don't know, especially Amazon and its retail division.
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Obviously, Apple's going through all kinds of changes because of where they have to make things and pressures from the Trump administration and just the cost. So... What's in Apple's favor, people are used to paying high prices for Apple products. So this is a little more price resistant. It's not like they're dealing with people that can't pay the extra kind of stuff.
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It does have a feel of, oh, we've done so many hits. We're done with the hits. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I got to say, I got to give it to them for this particular team, which has been, like, I always call them the Rolling Stones, right? They keep going. But it feels like a little bit like they should maybe have a new fresh and refresh on a lot of things.
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So that said, they're a must have for a lot of people, including myself. So it's not like I'm going to abandon them.
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Cheech and Chong, although they were lovely. They're fans of Pivot, just so you know. Then they smoked afterwards, as you might imagine. Oh, did they? You would have been quite comfortable. Yeah, out on the... And they're nice guys. Lovely. Lovely. There's a lot of tension between Cheech and Chong, I would say. There's a little bit. Especially with Chong. Chong. Yeah.
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Yep. I think that's true. I think that's true. But they, we'll see where they go. They certainly are doing better than most businesses in this country. Some tariff, other tariff updates. Trump says, this one came out of nowhere yesterday, says he's imposing 100% tariff on movies. This is not a distraction. This is strange. On movies made overseas, though it's unclear how that will work.
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By the way, we have a trade surplus when it comes to movies, just so you'd be clear. Netflix shares dropped 3% at the opening bells. Disney, Warner Brothers, and Paramount were also down. This one, I just don't get. And I'll get a couple more tariff things, but let me go through them and then comment on. Timu, the Chinese e-commerce platform, has stopped selling.
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shipping products from China directly to the U.S. And the executive director of the Port of Los Angeles, who knows from things, was on Bloomberg the other day breaking down what it means, the chaos means for workers and more in the reverberations. Let's listen.
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And what happens if we get a deal?
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I mean, this guy's smart. He's got a lot of stats. He sees, you know, you can see it in real time. And then, of course, the reburial just doesn't go to dock workers and it's truckers and it just goes throughout the economy. The terrorist movie thing, just, I don't even, how are you going to, most of Mission Impossible is coming up. And by the way, I'm so excited. Final Reckoning was made abroad.
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A lot of people, there's a lot of breaks in England. They do a lot of stuff. There's a certain Canada thing. and everything else to save costs. But movies aren't things either. And again, we have a trade surplus when it comes to movies going abroad. They also have big customers across the globe. That's another thing.
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A lot of their business is not just here in this country, it's their global businesses. This one was just nuts as far as I could tell. Thoughts, any thoughts?
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Chong seems mad at Cheech sometimes. Oh, really? Yeah. Cheech is sort of younger seeming and more like seemingly in charge. I can't tell. It's sort of like, you know, it's like being together as a professional couple. Yeah. But it was good. It was really fun. Then I went up to the San Francisco Public Library again in my theme of public stuff and got the book laureate, which was lovely.
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What do you tariff? The tickets? Ticket sales?
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For production. They do things across the globe.
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Yeah, down 26%. It definitely is. It's the cost. It's everything else. It's still very big there, but it's much less than it was. Right.
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But on what? That's the thing. It's like, it's so crazy.
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As someone who doesn't have a sense of how important this industry is and how well it's doing, it's just, this one is very dangerous, especially these companies are sort of teetering a little bit, like they're really trying really hard to get back on their feet with the, you know, with AI coming at them, with everything coming out, with costs, with unions, with...
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They've got a tough, those people have a tough job now when it used to all be gravy and him doing this. And by the way, most of them didn't know it. I was at an event. They're like, what in the actual fuck was a lot of producers, a lot. They're like, what does he tear up? They just were utter confusion, utter and complete confusion and really stupid.
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Just very quick thoughts on the ports and these things. Eric Schmidt, by the way, had an op-ed in the New York Times worth reading, noting between Timu, TikTok, and DeepSeek, China was pulling ahead of us in AI. Sort of one of those typical tech people like China, G or me kind of thing. But worth reading anyway. Any thoughts about this slowdown that's going to happen?
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And I interviewed Wes Moore today, the governor of Maryland. Same thing with the Port of Baltimore, which is the other big port where lots of stuff comes in.
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Whiskey rebellion. And we've had a lot of them on products. It's always on products. It's interesting.
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Scott, you're only getting two dolls this Christmas, just so you know. I was going to give you 30.
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Yes, that is correct. They love me there in San Francisco for insulting billionaires. Yes, in a beautiful way, in a beautiful laureatious way.
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Yes, they don't have the checks, like you said, to pay it.
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Right. No, no. This is the stupid. This was like deeply stupid. I was like, oh, my God, this guy's an idiot. We have to move along. But but it's it's really going to it's not going to be good. And this one, it just shows that he's just moving from industry to industry. That's correct. You're saying that. All right. Let's go on a quick break. We come back. Elon gets his own town in Texas.
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Let's make quick work of this.
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Scott, we're back. Elon Musk now is his own official company town. After voters in a small patch of South Texas overwhelmingly, most of them, his employees, approved a ballot measure to establish the city of Starbase. Mr. Potter, oh, I mean Elon Musk, the new city covers about one and a half square miles, is home to SpaceX headquarters. Nearly all the residents are Elon Musk employees.
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Oh, I love Alan Alda. Did you see the Four Seasons? They redid the Four Seasons with Tina Fey and a whole bunch of people. And Alan Alda made an appearance. He was delightful.
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They're family members of Elon Musk. and the first city officials are current or former SpaceX staff. Starbase has been described as looking like the set of a science fiction movie with rows of near-identical houses and a massive bronze bust of Elon Musk. I...
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I don't know what to say, but I'm going to add that he's been on a bit of a media tour this week, trying to take victory laps of zero victories. He appeared on Fox News with Doge worker Edward, I think it's Korostein, aka Big Balls. I can't even believe we live in this timeline.
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He spoke to journalists about the White House and talked about sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom, eating Haagen-Dazs, and also compared himself to Buddha. In another Fox News interview, this one with Lara Trump. Oh God, the insider-ness here is so grotesque. Elon responded to the Nazi accusations and comparisons he's faced in recent months. Let's listen.
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He doesn't know history. Oh, my God. How can we miss you if you won't go away, Elon? That's my feeling. This is ridiculous. Every bit of this. He's made a disaster of Doge. They are probably going to cost us more money. He's hurt people's lives. You've harmed people in your life. That's ridiculous. You don't have to kill people to harm them.
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The way he's setting up these things show me he's not much of an intellectual in any way. Not that he cares, but Um, just the, um, I don't know what to say. This is just so ridiculous. We're in the most ridiculous timeline and he needs to pipe down and, and, and stop sucking up all the attention oxygen. I'd like to stop talking about him.
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Yeah, I thought that was interesting, too. I know it got a lot.
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This is a company town. That's different. What you're talking about is very different than a company town, which is what this is. I mean, the whole notion of company towns is such a, whether it's here or Ireland or wherever, the mines, it has a very negative connotations of like one single person. controlling a town.
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I have no problem with town creation, and I think that's a great, or housing creation. This is a little different, but go ahead.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
He's not a Nazi, Scott. He's not a Nazi. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, some wins and fails. Would you please go first?
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Oh, my God. Although I have to say, I haven't been in a library in a very long time. That happens to be a gorgeous library. But being in the stacks gave me the feels, you know, hanging around in the stacks and sort of, you know, I don't know. I just have a lot of memories of the stacks.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
It's such a lie. It's such a lie. The most happens is like my son growled to someone. They're like, lion, I'm scared. That's how it works, kids in school, weird adults.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Okay. The other guy, sure. Okay. Yeah.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Again, distraction, distraction, distraction, constant and persistent distraction. So you're looking at all the stupid stuff. It's like network has come to life.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Why do you have library jokes? One thing I have to say, a lot of people did stop me throughout California, loving Scott and Kara, I have to say. That was really nice. And saying we make them feel better in this very difficult time. There's a lot of angst among people, and we calm their angst down. I suggested Cheech and Chong for that.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
That's a very, very good way of putting it, Scott. That's excellent, Mike. All right, I'll go. My win. Ryan Coogler with this movie, Sinners, shows once again that original programming really does. Oh, you like that?
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
It's a movie called Sinners. It's about vampires. It's music and all kinds of things. But what I'm more interested in is the deal he did with Warner Brothers where he got After 25 years, he gets ownership of the film's IP, intellectual property. It's a huge achievement to do this. Studios usually retain full ownership of things.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
And he also has something called first dollar growths, where he'll receive a share of the film's gross ticket sales before any deductions, a deal, let me read this, that was more common in the DVD Boomer than it is, and it's very rare to do this, The movie's about ownership and autonomy in a racist society. And so this guy is just such an interesting... He made, obviously, Black Panther.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
He made Fruitvale Station, where I first noticed him. Obviously, that was a really big note. People got noticed of him. But he's just an astonishing filmmaker. And I just think these deals he's making as a creator of really new... fresh content in ways that are creative and interesting. I just love this idea of him. I'm looking at the box office right now of Sinners.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
So far, this film, which didn't cost that much to make, has grossed $236 million worldwide, fifth highest-growing film of 2025. So it's just doing, it's impressing for its quality and everything else. Anyway, the other one that's doing well is Thunderbolts. It's supposed to be lovely. A Marvel movie finally is delightful. Everyone tells me I should go see it. I haven't seen it.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
So I feel really, I just, I don't know. I just feel like this guy's creatively incredible and he owns his IP and he's going to own his IP and he's getting this with like creators like him who are creative people. can outrun AI or anybody else. I just have a lot of regard for that. In the fail, a very good friend of mine died this week in a very tragic fire, Jill Sobule. She's a singer.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
She performed at All Things D and Code many years. I've known her forever. She was best known for the song, I Kissed a Girl, which was sort of a song that got a lot of attention way back when. But she was an artist, an enduring artist, and one of these artists that traveled a lot, made a lot of money traveling, which a lot of musicians make now.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
She did a show just recently called Fuck Seventh Grade, which was funny about being a seventh grader, wonderful. Such a creative and entrepreneurial spirit, but also one of the kindest people I knew. And just a... I couldn't say enough good things about Jill Sobiel. She was kind and good and just always trying to be different and interesting and trying new things.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
She did a lot of stuff where she would do house concerts for people and all kinds of things just to make it as an artist. She had an enduring career doing that. And she was just recently doing incredibly well. And she was again in Minnesota staying with friends and the house was on fire and she did not make it out. Just a shocked 66 years old.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I took Louis to see, and George Hahn actually, to see Fuck Seventh Grade, and we had a lovely dinner with her after at Viselka and just laughed the entire time. She was just a ray of sunshine. I'm going to play a clip from a song that she wrote called A Good Life from her album. I recommend a lot of her songs.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
That's wrong, as usual. Anyway, it was lovely. It was a lovely visit to California.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I've been pummeling people, including Scott, with her songs from her album California Years. Let's listen.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
It was a good life. Oh, I'm sorry.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Anyway, good life. Let's have a good life, Scott. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
Pivot
Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, as I noted, this week I talked to Maryland's Democratic Governor Wes Moore, who's on the shortlist for presidential candidates in 2028, on with Kara Swisher. Let's listen to a clip where he talked about how Trump's cuts are impacting his state.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
No, but I stayed at the Addition Hotel briefly.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Impressive, impressive politician. We'll see where he goes. But it was a great interview. We talked about a lot of things, including the Francis Scott Key Bridge and a bunch of other stuff. So really interesting man and someone to watch. And someone the right wing is very focused in on right now because he's a very appealing politician and young and vibrant. Okay, that's the show.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Yeah, I was like, what is happening here?
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Yeah, it feels very sterile and there's a lot of succulents. It's got a good restaurant. Actually, there's only one succulent. They were even chintzy with the succulents, like you can only have one succulent. I like succulents, but anyway, I like to say the word succulent. Anyway, it was lovely. But now I'm back in D.C., so.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Library laureate. Book laureate is the technical term. And you can call me laureate from now on. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Warren Buffett's surprise announcement, Elon getting his own city, and whatever the fuck President Trump is up to. He's done a big public. He's all over the place with all kinds of wacky announcements and some of them disturbing.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
first of all, is all presidents swear an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. They say it right when they get sworn in. But Donald Trump was rethinking that promise on Meet the Press this weekend. It was a very wide-ranging interview with Kristen Welker.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I don't know what he was saying. It came during a conversation about deportations. I don't know if he was referring to the deportations or the Constitution. It wasn't clear to me, actually. Also notable from the interview, the president continued to blame former President Biden for the bad parts of the economy. And, of course, he took credit for the good parts.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
He did not rule out the use of military force to take Greenland again. Said he would add and self-fund a ballroom to the White House. I'm terrified of the gold situation. And he, of course, let us know that, quote, everything's okay, unquote. Some other fun things the president has done recently includes posting Rebuild and Open Alcatraz on Truth Social.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
And the president posted an AI image of himself as Pope in the official White House account, reposted it again on Instagram and X. Many Catholics, including, they made some statements, Catholic bishops and cardinals made comments. He's had quite a week. Any thoughts on any of these things?
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
He also said he could. He wanted to.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Some people are individually like Rahm Emanuel. There's a bunch that are sort of saying to get some muscle in this. It's just it's not a coordinated effort.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Well, it sounds like they don't want any of us, really. That's the fair point. Yeah. You know, I was thinking as I flew on the red eye last night, and I was thinking, he'll pardon him. Part of the interview, he said he was sort of pushing it. He was noting Rubio and J.D. Vance as the possible next presidents, as Republican presidential candidates, and not himself.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
Pivot
Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
But I was thinking, he'll pardon himself on the last day for everything.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
That's who he's going to pardon, so he doesn't have to face this stuff.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Pelosi got mad about the Alcatraz thing. It's a very good tourist attraction in the National Park.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
So I've just returned from my grand tour of California.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
They're doing more with real estate and everything else. Anyway, you're absolutely right, Scott. Oddly enough, I am actually going to California for a very brief trip next week to talk to a whole mess of Democrats. You want to meet me? You want to come with me?
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I'm back. I took a red-eye last night just to get home for you so I could be in the studio and look really nice.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I said, I'll only come if I can yell at you. Yeah, maybe. I'll talk to them. I said, I can only come if I can yell at you, like a lot.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
No, of course not. Of course not. The whole thing is nonsense. Well, I will say, because I enjoy yelling at Democrats about these things, and I'll continue to attribute things to you.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I regret to inform you, something distracting, that Mark Zuckerberg is raw dogging life. The Metta CEO went on the Theo Vaughan podcast and said he drinks coffee recreationally, which was strange enough, and that the DARE program really worked for him. We're going to leave all the awkward in for this one. Let's listen to the whole clip. It's so strange.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Oh, so many things. I saw Robert Reich. I did something for KQED for public media, which I was interviewed by PBS people. And right in the middle of my interview, Trump put out his executive order trying to cut funding for PBS and NPR. That was interesting. I then... flew to Los Angeles and to Bill Maher, which was really fun, which was interesting. And I gave you a shout-out.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
Oh, my God. Does he know what raw-dogging is? I feel like he doesn't.
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Trump's Movie Tariffs, Buffett's Retirement, and Elon's New City
I'm still stuck on raw dogging that he doesn't know the meaning of it. But yes, this is the most important thing, was that the three friends, that people have three friends, and therefore we're going to replace them with AI bots, essentially.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Steve, thank you. That's very sweet. I'm four-term limits on Supreme Court justice. There's a number, I think it's 16 years, something like that, that I think works, or a certain age. I think probably age gating would be what I would do on the top end. I guess 75, I suppose, would be, I think, fair. Maybe even 72, maybe 70. I don't know, somewhere in there.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Number two, I think he will try, but I think he's going to be old. I think he's already, even though he seems vigorous, he's been nodding off. I don't think he really wants to govern. He just likes to make pronouncements. So in four years, I don't know if he'll be capable. I think that doesn't mean they won't try to prop him up, like Weekend at Bernie's, kind of do a pull of Joe Biden, essentially.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
And I think he likes to talk about it to bother us quite a bit and to show he has power over picking the successor. He may try to pick one of his kids. That's something I can see happening easily. Not Eric, obviously, not Tiffany, but Ivanka or Junior. So I don't know. I think that's what he'll try to do more than anything. Scott?
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
What's the age? Pick the age.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
70, you're probably in pretty good shape if you take care of yourself.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Sometimes I sleep a long time. I might want to sleep after this show. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
There are exceptions. Like, for example, I love Robert Reich right now. I love this whole Robert Reich videos. He's lively. He's informative. He's 78 years old. Certain people just shine. Sure.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
No, I'm just saying it depends on the person, but you just have a basic age. I think 75 is probably pretty fair, but I can make an argument for 72.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Yeah, no rock Trump and with Trump.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Like I said, I think he's going to try to get one of his kids in. I think he's also old. I think he, I literally, you can see, you know, again, he's a vigorous declining person.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
He just says things off the cuff. I think he's declining. I think he's, I think it'll come fast too. He's kind of like Reagan. You didn't see it and then you saw it kind of thing. He seems vigorous, certainly, but largely because he's, that's the way he's going down. But he's, To me, he's turning into, he'll be an old man in four years, no matter how he slices it. He just will. He just will.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
And today we have a listener mailbag for you because we love our listeners. We love our fans. By the way, everyone's come up to me in the past couple of weeks. Thank you. I appreciate it. And they all say hello to Scott. But now we're going to listen to them. So let's listen to the first one. Hey, Scott and Kara.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
All right, Scott, one more quick break. When we come back, more listener questions.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Scott, we're back with more listener mail. Let's listen to another one.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
You're clever and interesting. Go ahead.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Agreed. And we reach more people. We reach more people.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
And we wouldn't be very good. We'd be just so bad. Like a staff. Can you imagine staff? Like, I hate staff. That's the thing. And you're shy. People don't realize Scott is really shy. Interestingly enough, I had coffee with Andrew Yang the other day, who talked about you, Scott, in very kind ways, and who ran for president. I was asking if he was going to do it again. He might. Right.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I thought that was interesting that he did it. It certainly helped him get name recognition and everything else and bringing some good points. They had a lot of people like him and don't like him, but he definitely got his points out, which were interesting. Then I talked to Mark Cuban about it because a lot of people are asking him. He polls incredibly well for president.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I agree. I've been trying to get him to run for president. He seems, on the record, off the record, it's the same answer. I don't want to do it. I can have more impact doing what I'm doing. Actually, Mark, I think you could have more impact rather than for president. I do. In your case, you could get those prescription. You could do course plus or you could be president and do it.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
We want you to run it. He polls really well. He's the anti-Elon.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Yeah, that's right.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
People talking to you? No. Oh, my God. I'm shy in a very different way. I don't want to hear from people a lot of the time, although I love fans.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
You have to go beyond it. You have to go say, look, I have enough, and now I'm going to stop this nonsense. Let me just say, I think you should pick a spicy one. Jasmine Crockett. She just really communicates in a way that I think is tough and smart and also just double sassy, just something like that.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I don't know what's going on with her, but I turn my head whenever she says something, and she handles it really well and goes just far enough. So I think you should give her some money. That's my feeling.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
All right. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back with one more listener question on jet lag.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Well, well, well, well. Let me just tell you something. We have producers, and we have great producers and writers and researchers. Scott has a bunch. And they give us a whole script of information, some of which we use, some of which we don't, but it's at our fingertips. We also know a lot of stuff. We also ourselves know a lot of stuff and have been covering things or talking about them.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I don't sleep as much as other people. I don't know. I don't have as much as sleeping.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Four hours, five hours. Sometimes I sleep a long time. I might want to sleep after this show.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Mm-hmm. Martha Stewart's the same way. She's telling me. I don't know. I don't have any tricks for jet lag. I just get on the schedule. That's the only thing I do is wherever I land, like when I'm landing in Australia soon, I'm going to get on their schedule no matter how tired I am. And so I get on the schedule and that's what I do. Can't think of anything. You would know better than I. Yeah.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
But Scott, you can talk about what you use. I know you use ChatGPT and other things much more than I do. But we have lots of amazing people. For this show, I'll call them out. Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin, for example, and Scott.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
So one of the things that people are, if you want to go for other things, there's certain things people recommend. There's something called Fly Kit that has kind of things like that. A lot of people say you should eat high protein when you get there, low carb meals. There's all kinds of tricks. There's a lot of great stuff online. Um, other people talk about fasting.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Some people said eating lights, they think you should wear the, some of the glasses sometime. There's, there's all kinds of things. Um, but there are also just some, some hacks of, of doing them. And I think, um, I do overnight things cause I want to get home to the family and I know it's going to, uh, it's going to affect me, but mostly two, two things is that I get, I get on the schedule.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
You just can't, you see to help you regulate if, You stay awake when the sun is up and you go to sleep if it's down and you drink a lot of water. That's another thing. That's always the answer to everything. Drinking water. Anyway, that was a great question. And let's move on. Before we go, some messages we've gotten from Canadians recently. And let me just tell you, we love Canada.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
We don't want you to be the 51st state. You're a great country, no matter what that is.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Just that jackass Elon said. We should be the 11th. We should. We would like to join Canada as the United States. So let's listen to our Canadian friends.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I am coming to Toronto soon just for the donuts. We love Canadians. One more along the same lines.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Oh, I'm crying, Scott. The Canadians are so nice. If Canada did that to America, we'd be like, we're going to come up there and cut off your heads. Instead, they're like, thank you so much for being nice to us. Like, that's why they need to run our country.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
That was great, Scott. Many people mentioned that. That was a really great thing.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
And where's Whistler? Where's way up in the mountains up there? British Columbia is so beautiful. So beautiful.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
We don't want you as a state. And also Banff, that's where I went, Banff. Scott, what country are you going to suck up to next?
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Okay. Well, I'll visit you there when you're in Orlando.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Okay. All right. Anyway, we really appreciate all the questions, especially from the Canadians. Thank you so much. Send us more. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question. Oh, by the way, Scott, my first marriage was in Canada because they wouldn't marry gays here. I love Canada. It's the best place. I married in Niagara Falls.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I did because, you know what?
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Let me just say what happened was they were so hostile to gay marriage here in this country and so mean. And we had already had Louie. I had already been pregnant. I had Louie. We go up to Canada, get married and like we go to the like the clerk and we're just poised for anger at us. Right. And instead they're like, oh, this is great. We're so happy you're going to get married. They were so nice.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
And it was such a big fucking deal to me that they were so decent. And it was like 30 miles from the fucking United States. It was such an asshole to us as a family. Right. And it was just, the whole experience was lovely. And then we went to see, went on Maid of the Mist and every single person was amazing. There was a donut store next door to where we had married. The donuts were delicious.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
And that was a big moment for me because the kindness, it was needed, especially starting a family. Anyway, thank you, Ken.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
You ruined my beautiful marriage story with the terrible blowjob story. Once again, once again. Niagara, the ED drug for women. You were wonderful to me at the time. It meant a lot.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Those were great questions. Send us more. Go to nymag. I love these listener mail things. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We love our listeners. We love our fans. Please continue to come up to Scott and tell him to stop telling dick jokes, but I think that's never happening. Eh? Eh? We'll be back on Friday with more.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Please read us out, Scott of Canada.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Yeah, but we do work from scripts, but we're very loose with them. At the same time, they're critical and necessary, so we can give you the right facts. We have fact-checkers, by the way, also, so that if we get anything wrong, and by that I mean Scott, we can check them very quickly or change them. There's time on that. A lot of podcasts do not do that, but we do.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I'm not getting divorced ever. My wife is wonderful. Anyway, Scott, the next one comes from a TikTok employee. How exciting. Let's listen.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Bye. I think there's going to be a deal soon. If I'm going to make a prediction here, Scott usually makes his predictions, but I think there's going to be, it's being, the process is being run by J.D. Vance and Mike Walls. And I think they're trying to figure out if there's a way that the bigger U.S. owners, probably be Elon or Ellison, Larry Ellison, or something like that.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
I don't know what to say. If Elon buys it, do you want to work for Elon Musk? If Elon gets the big shot, which of course he's grifting around all over the government, so maybe he'll get it. Do you want to work for him? I think you have skills that are transferable everywhere in terms of what you're doing at TikTok.
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
What a great product, away from all the mishigash around the ownership and the Chinese government. So I don't know. I might wait and see to see until the deal is done. Scott?
Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
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Pivot
Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Okay. All right. A good one. Okay. Well, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, more listener questions.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Scott, we're back with more listener mail. Let's listen to another one.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Wow. You know, we talk a lot about the Department of Government Efficiency. Companies have been doing this really recently. They've seen that they can really cut people and don't need them as much as they did. And so they're taking the opportunity to do so. Every company's got to be looking at the costs. Scott and I were with someone recently who said he's going from 6,000 software engineers.
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It's not just affecting middle management to 2,000 next year. I mean, I think everyone's looking for what they can make do with and not to just ruin it. They don't need as many people with AI. They don't need as many people. for what they're doing, and they're trying to put efficiency in. And you're going to see this happen everywhere.
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And if you're a company, that is your job is to, of course, they'll pay themselves more. That's what Meta just did. It just gave top executives more money. And meanwhile, they're doing layoffs. So even the very successful companies are doing this, not just the ones in distress.
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Right. But I do think companies are finding ways to successful and not just really efficiency.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Also, you have to know what your leverage and value is. You should always, even the negative parts.
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Trump Term Limits, TikTok Status Check, and Scott's Presidential Prospects
Shut the fuck up. That's correct. Scott, say nothing. All right. Next, this one comes from Steve. Let's listen.
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No, it's called distributed negotiations, where one is a winner and a loser. I was reading a whole thing about his negotiating style, which doesn't work on the international stage. This is what Cuban said. He's going to say, pinky swear you will protect our border and buy more booze and stuff from us. They will say yes, won't actually buy the stuff, and he will declare victory, Trumponomics.
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Let's listen to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau essentially called Trump's actions a betrayal of our alliance, which he just said.
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Can you put a camera in your house so I can watch that? Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I am in San Francisco and was on a flight last night having to read about Doge working all weekend taking over the government.
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I don't know. Anyway, that's a very good—he's also gaining. He's had to leave because of pressure from conservatives, too. And now they're all joined together. Just some more things, and then we'll move on to the next thing. Larry Summers has called the tariffs against Canada and Mexico inexplicable and dangerous. He's usually right about things.
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He's an economist, obviously, a well-known economist. Trump acknowledged it could cause some pain, but how bad could it get? As we said, alcohol, food, cars, toys, pretty much everything— These terrorists will also target that de minimis provision that allows packages of less than $800 to ship to the U.S. duty-free. That loophole has been a boon for Sheen, Taimou, and others.
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I suspect he'll be a paper tiger here, correct? I mean, do you imagine? I think that he's going to do exactly what Mark says.
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Because he was. He was prices down and tax cuts, I think. And none of those things are on the thing. It's DEI at the FAA and tariffs and destroying the government, essentially, which seems to be taking advantage of his chaotic friend, Elon Musk.
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Let me go through the other ones that happened. Over 8,000 U.S. government websites have been deleted, a result of Trump's ordered end programs to promote gender ideology. Information about vaccines, hate crimes, and veterans' care has been removed. Among the removed, 3,000 pages from the CDC, 100 pages from the FDA.
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Oh, I have a bunch of things to do here. I'm speaking in front of a group from Columbia University Journalism School. I've got some appointments. I've got a whole bunch of stuff I'm doing here in San Francisco. I like to come and visit the place every now and then to find out what's going on here. You love it there. I do. I do. I don't have a lot of time here this time, but I'm excited to be here.
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200 pages from Head Start, a program for low-income children, and 1,000 pages from the Department of Justice, a lot around January 6th. Obviously, USAID was the other thing that was happening. Looks like they're closing it down. They went in over the weekend and took control of the agency, which they're trying to close down.
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Apparently, Elon said on X, on Spaces, I guess, that they are closing it down. And they also tweeted it should die. It was a criminal organization making all kinds of accusations. Sounds like he has a band of Teenagers, young people helping him do this, troublesome.
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They are claiming that nobody without security clearance got access, but it sounds pretty middle of the night on the weekend, which he bragged about saying one of his advantages and superpowers is he works on the weekend. I work on the weekend, but I don't consider it a superpower.
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Yes. Let's go to the sites.
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Oh, come on, Scott. I'm sorry. It is. It's a war on lots of things. The stuff they're taking down across the government is, it's not just poor people. They're trying to like abrogate, to eliminate other, anyone else that has, remember, they're taking down like they have Black History Month or Gay Pride Month.
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Well, that kind of stuff, it's the same message. If you read Project 2025, it's not just, of course, it impacts poor people, but it also impacts the idea of any kind of identity beyond, you know, veterans need to veteran, you know, CDC needs to CDC, don't talk about anything else. It's an idea that has driven them crazy, which is that we should celebrate diversity, I guess.
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It's a broader obsession that they have with this issue. And that's how you led to sort of the FAA thing, which is it had to be diversity, equity, inclusion that caused these crashes, even though we haven't had a crash in a very, very long time when those things were in place. which probably is a tragic accident. That's really what it is, and that's what happens in life.
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But I think it's a bigger ideological attack of things they're trying to eliminate in schools. Let me just say, my kids are in a public school in D.C. I am very nervous they're going to start meddling with the education system She came home and was talking. She said, oh, I learned the word diverse today. And I said, what does that mean to you? And she goes, oh, they were all different.
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Anyway, it was a long weekend. Listen, this whole Doge thing has got me off to a bad start. But I am glad I'm in San Francisco, that's for sure. How are you doing?
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And she wasn't using race. She was like, oh, we're all different people from each other. And it's good to be, you know, to have differences and it's good to have things in common. It was a very, like... chalk, vanilla, strawberry way of thinking about it. But I was like, oh, they're going to take that out of her education, just the word, which was frightening in a lot of ways.
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No, I know. I think they're going to do a lot of meddling in education.
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I very much think they're going to go after marriage. This is the hallmarks of all of it. I think they're going to go after that. They're trying to get it to the Supreme Court, just like they did with affirmative action. They're trying to get libel cases with the press.
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There's certain... This obsession about gender ideology has really twisted them in a way that's really... It's just twisted them in ways that I think is much more at the heart of ideology than just, let's attack the poor people. I think they have a real... They want to push back so much of the stuff
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that has happened over the past couple of years, probably including among their children and everything else. So we'll see where it goes. But taking down pages is really just about, it seems so needlessly cruel. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about winners and losers from the latest round of big tech earnings.
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We'll talk a little bit more about what Musk is doing by being not the second president, the president. Support for Pivot comes from Coda. We talk about startups a lot on the show, but turning your back of the napkin idea into a billion dollar business requires countless hours of collaboration and teamwork. It can be difficult to build a team that's aligned on everything from values to workflow.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
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Which place? What's that? Why? Who is at Walt Disney World?
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Scott, we're back. We're recording this Monday morning. The U.S. market just opened a little while ago, and the Dow dropped 600 points. NASDAQ is down 2%, S&P down around 1.75%. Global stocks are also plunging. Scott, what do you think about this? Not a surprise.
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Yes. Wall Street thinks you're an idiot, Donald Trump. It's been a few busy days for tech earnings also. Let's go through it to sort of line us up for that. Apple reported blockbuster earnings for its most recent quarter, but the numbers show a slight dip in year-over-year iPhone revenue. Probably not a surprise.
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Showing Apple intelligence did not boost sales that they had hoped, although it introduced sort of at the end of the quarter. Microsoft reported a 12% year-over-year rise in revenue, although its cloud business is slowing. And Meta beat expectations, with revenue rising 21% in the last quarter. Really big performance from Meta.
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Tesla mostly missed expectations on earnings and revenue, with $25 billion in quarterly revenue. Automotive revenue fell 8%. These earnings were announced during the initial deep-seek frenzy last week. There's questions about the AI spending plans. Microsoft has earmarked $80 billion for AI this year. Ometa has pledged as much as $65 billion.
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Oh, nice. That's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, February is going to be a big month. It's going to be a big month and it has been in Washington, as I said, but it's just, it seems very active. It used to be a lot slower in the winter. Now it seems crazy. Maybe it's just I'm tired from flying all night and then being here.
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Let's talk about, obviously, tariffs probably may or may not affect them. And At the same time, they've pledged fealty to Trump in one way or another. Another thing to throw in is metas or brilliant talks to reincorporate in Texas or another state, according to The Wall Street Journal, out of Delaware. It has to do with certain lawsuits that Mark Zuckerberg is facing, I believe.
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But Texas seems to be the place where they all have is their safe space. Thoughts about the earnings?
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Do you see any effect of the deep-seek? That came at the end of the quarter, obviously, and it did shake up the stock market and people worried about the spending.
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Oh, of course, Ted. Wait. Yeah.
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You were on that board? What?
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No wonder what happened to it. No, sorry.
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But that's why we're so close, you see.
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Okay. All right. That's an interesting reference. Okay.
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Yeah, I'm sure. We have a lot to get to today. May I start off by saying something? Someone who is a big listener of ours wrote me, and someone they knew died in that plane crash and said we were a little too glib about the plane crash, making it political. And I thought about it, and I really do think we were trying hard to separate it from the politics. And there's no getting around it.
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He says he's doing it on the president's orders.
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This is a terrible tragedy of people dying. I get it. For a lot of people, it's been turned into a political thing. And maybe we did a little bit more than we should have because we said we weren't going to. So I wanted to bring that up. I don't know how you feel about that. But I wanted to say these families are finally finding everybody there. They still have not found everybody in the Potomac.
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There are very little. It's interesting to see whether you saw those protests in Germany or not seeing them in this country. But Musk's favorables are quite low, really quite low, considering a lot of people look up to him, which is interesting. Because it does look, especially with this crew he's got around him, it feels like a movie someone made up, right? Some of this stuff. They're all kids.
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They're all kids of some sort that are around him or people that work for him. They're all his people that are coming in and demanding to see everything, demanding their, you know, they're like the evil genius bar, essentially, that's going into all these places. And they did take over what was essentially the genius bar for the government, the U.S. Digital Service, and they've renamed it the U.S.
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Doge Service. And that gives them access. These were already set up, these offices, in every federal government facility, in every department. And, you know, some of them literally was just a camp counselor and One kid did this astonishing computing around decoding these ancient scrolls, brilliant people who had brilliant coding skills and brilliant computer skills. But it's this sort of team.
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One guy is called Big Balls. That's his nickname, which I doubt he has them. That's what his nickname is. I bet they're small balls. It's just, the whole thing feels so bizarre and people are freaking out because I don't think many people can do anything, right? What do you do when he does this? It doesn't feel like Congress has a handle on it. The Democrats do not control Congress.
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It feels like it's a plain sight, just this is how they're going to go through every federal agency and do this unless they're stopped by courts, which is interesting. Now, Ezra Klein was making a really interesting argument, which I like. I'm going to read from it.
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There's a reason Trump is doing all this through executive orders rather than submitting these directives as legislation to pass through Congress. A more powerful executive could persuade Congress to eliminate the spending he opposes or reform the civil service. to give himself powers of hiring and firing that he seeks.
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To write those changes into legislation would make them more durable and allow him to argue their merits in a more strategic way. Even if Trump's aim is to bring the civil service to heel, to get rid of his opponents and to turn it to his own ends, he would be better off arguing that he's simply trying to bring high-performance management culture of Silicon Valley to the federal government.
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You never want a power grab to look like a power grab. I thought that was exactly on point. I don't know what you think. He's calling it weak. This is a weak flex.
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That's not good for him.
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He's his junkyard dog. That's what he is. He doesn't care what he does to get there.
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But reading these stories this week of these families was really heartbreaking. I found it. I found it very heartbreaking.
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Something has to shake it up. Something has to shake it up.
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Yeah. This is what he did at Twitter. This is the same tactics. You know, one of the things that, you know, when they were talking about, oh, look, the word fork in the road is in the letter. Elon Musk wanted you to see that. He wanted you to know it was, you know, it was me. Tell them it was me. You know what I mean?
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Like, he wants people to have us and the journalists to write that he's trying to copy what he did at Twitter, right? Which a lot of these moves... You know, remember he seized the systems, fired people, took over people. There was worries about privacy. It's the same kind of playbook that he has. There's sleeping in the office. That's his favorite thing to do.
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Apparently they have beds at the Office of Personnel Management. Bringing in his cronies. This is the same, you know, it's like watching Fast and Furious over and over again, except they're a bunch of geeks, I guess. Yeah. This is what he wants to do. But I agree with you. I do think it's the mark of a loser. And he wants to be seen as a king.
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And so he's sicking this guy on people and to scare them. And I'm not so sure they're so easily scared. I think this FBI agent that pushed back a lot of these people at these agencies are pushing back. And we'll see if Congress has any kind of balls, which they don't. in any way. They kind of like it in some weird way. The Republicans certainly do.
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And the concerns, of course, are privacy and the ability for these people to download all this information about people. We'll see what explanations they have, of course, but let's just say Scott and I don't trust them on First Blush. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.
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Scott, it's not helping Americans. It's not helping Americans. That's the stupidest argument. It does help Americans.
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I can't even. It's the cruelest. It's the cruelest and most petty and small-minded of cuts. There's so many cruel and just like cutting, like we talked about last week, cutting the security details of people who worked for this country. It's so petty. It's so small. It shows you this shiver of a little heart that we have at work here.
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Canadians are booing us, people. Canadians don't boo anybody. Let's just say Canadians. They're booing us. They're booing us. Anyway. All right. I'll start with mine. My win obviously has to go to Beyonce on her album of the year. Grammy win.
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Watching the Grammys was great. The vibe they had was like, fuck you, all of you. We're going to be black. We're going to be interesting. We're going to be talented. We're going to be enjoyable. There was not a lot of, the vibe was so good at the Grammys. I'm sorry. I didn't even know it happened. They weren't doing a lot of the like virtue signaling at all.
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In fact, they were just like, we're fucking better. We're cooler. We're so cool. We are so creative. Anyway, Beyonce's at the top of that. I love Cowboy Carter. I love that album. There's a lot of albums I love this year. Kendrick Lamar's was I liked a lot. But this one I really enjoyed and played it over and over again. She's been nominated four times in this category.
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This was her first album to win it and deserve it. Go listen to it. It's really a wonderful album in lots of ways and really fun, actually super fun and really moving and everything else. So congratulations, Beyonce. I know it's been hard for you to make it in this business. I also really enjoyed watching Taylor Swift dance her ass off throughout.
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She made kind of a little, like an adorable spectacle of herself dancing with kids, dancing in coats. And also Janelle Monae did a Michael Jackson. It's everybody. And Lady Gaga did an amazing duet of California Dreaming with Bruno Mars. Really wonderful. The whole Grammys was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
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My fail, besides this ridiculous antics of Elon Musk, which continues into the fucking millennial, make Elon go away is a really good thing to happen. He should go to Mars again. I think he should realize his dream. We should spend all that foreign aid money we're not spending on sending him to Mars immediately.
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But was an interview that Mitch McConnell did with Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes, which is under attack because the owners are trying to pay off Trump through settling a lawsuit, as we talked about last week. But this is a great interview with Mitch McConnell where he goes, you know, she's like, you wrote this and this and this about Trump being a terrible person.
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He goes, well, that was a private conversation. And then she goes, well, it's in your book. And he's like, yes, it is. Yeah. He's just this guy had every opportunity to stop Trump in a very significant way and did not do so. And it mystifies me that he could act like he doesn't like him. Just he doesn't get the right not to. He facilitated Trump.
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And to try to pretend he didn't is really—he's a loathsome toad. He really is, of all the people. Because you can't hate someone and then be the reason they're still here and give them the lifeline that he richly did not deserve. So, Mitch McConnell, you also should go away. You really should. You've been a real—
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Exactly. You're no John McCain, my friend. You're just no John McCain. And I just act trying to be like that right now. I don't know what he's going for, but I would like his tour to be over and I'd like him to go back to Kentucky and just get the fuck out of here. Just leave. It's all your fault, Mr. McConnell. Anyway, that is my fail.
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Complex topic. I did an interview with him many years ago, and I think what he uncovered was astonishingly disturbing about the government spying on citizens. So in that way, a good thing. In a bad thing, the way he did it, I think there's all kinds of hair all over him in ways that are disturbing.
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I have talked to many national security people who find him to be a traitor, and they have very persuasive arguments. I have a hard time deciding about that. I do. Even after doing the interview. And I hate to say that because I think that in many ways he is, and in many ways he isn't. I don't know what to say. That's where I am. I don't know what else to say.
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I think it's a complex topic, let's just say. And they did make reforms after he did it, but at the same time, The way he did it was traitorous too. Why did you ask that?
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I'm usually with the national security people on this thing, and I think he did hurt our national security apparatus.
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I just have a smidge of I don't love the government, what they did. So anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, I talked to Ben Stiller about severance on On. Let's listen to a clip.
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Right. It's also, I go to hardware stores and browse. What do you do to sever, Scott? We already know, gummies, breath work, what?
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I so want to see that. I so want to see that. Can you put a camera in your house so I can watch that? And then I will sever watching that. That would make me happy.
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I would like to sever doing that. I would like you to do that for me. I want that as a gift. I want a video where I can watch it over.
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I don't know what else to say. Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Scott, read us out. Dance us out.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
No, I get that. I get it.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
Yeah, not at all. Let me just say, I would avail myself. Sometimes you can complain about media, but these stories about these people, and I read a bunch of them, are wonderful, especially this group of skaters and friends. And it's... You know, I know plane crashes do get more attention than other things. And as you say, not as many people die, but it's such a sort of horrific way to die.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
And the way it becomes a spectacle is also horrific. But let's just remember there's people on this flight. That's all I want to say. I did that after 9-11 too. I read so many of the biographies and stuff like that. And you don't do that for everybody every day of the year who dies. But in that case, it gives you a real sense of, mortality when those happens to everybody.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
And it just was, anyway, we're sorry. That was not our intent. And let's hope we figure out what happened and stop accidents like that because Scott is right. Our air travel is safe comparatively going forward. Anyway, we've got a lot to get today.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
Trump set off a firestorm over the weekend, slapping 25% tariffs on goods from Canada, Mexico, and 10% on China's products set to go into effect this week. What do you think, Scott?
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
He wants to be the 51st state. There's that thrown in there, the Candidacy.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
Right. All right. I mean, the Mexican president, who seems much more aggressive than previous presidents, was making the point, stop wanting drugs so much. Do something about your own drug problem within the country and the demand, which you never do. There has been an effort by the Mexican government to slow all that down, right? There has been progress made.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
Just to note, we recorded this episode on Monday morning. Since then, Mexico has announced that it has struck a deal with the Trump administration to put tariffs on hold for a month, which is exactly what Mark Cuban said would happen.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
But again, this seems like in Trump's head, and I've read economist after economist, that it's just like this is the world's worst thing to happen to everybody, and it will be a tax. You know, there were a couple of...
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
anchors who just doesn't seem to know math it'll be a tax on the american consumer that they're not going to get through tax breaks because the tax breaks are going to the very wealthy they're not going to uh and this is a direct tax on the american consumer it's really quite something and the price of everything all this weird i had no idea that so much stuff
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
And I know that we're doing lots of trade up vaguely, but in terms of when you start to get the specifics of what we import, fresh fruits and vegetables, gas, obviously maple syrup, things like that. But some of it, you know, cars that go back and forth across the border. I was vaguely aware of that. But it's really, we are, they aren't the 51st state, but they sure as hell aren't.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
Just another country. That is true. And I think the same is Mexico. We have so much trade with them. And there was a hope that we'd put more technology engineering there so it was closer and less at risk than in China, right? He thinks it's a negotiating tactic.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
And one of the things, let me look it up, Mark Cuban said, which I thought was smart, is that he'll make some calls and call them off right away and then declare victory, essentially. You know, do a pinky promise. I think that's what he said.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
that he was tough and then he can take his win and go home, essentially, which it sounded like a pretty reasonable idea of what this idiot's going to do, essentially.
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Trump's Tariffs, Elon's Government Takeover, and OpenAI's New Funding
This is from China, for people who don't know.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But not in this case. So one of the things that's interesting is which firms are agreeing and which firms are not.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
To me, that's really like, why has these others saying no fucking way and the others are going along with it? And that, to me, is a really—and then what it does to their businesses. Because I don't mean to be rude, but I don't find lawyers to be the most, you know, backboney of people. Like, journalists are a different thing.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
When they start suing journalists, they may stick together, although we'll get to that later. They aren't in the case of the White House Correspondents. They're not joining as a group. But I do think that they—I'd really like to understand why—
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
others, you know, even though they're trying to stop these punishments and federal judges are blocking these efforts, why certain groups did it and certain groups didn't? Because presumably they all have the same business problem going forward.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He also wore a cheese head at one point. He didn't look bad in the cheese head, I'll be honest with you. Most people don't look good in cheese heads, so I guess that's a pro. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Scott is off today, and in his place, I got someone much more superior.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I don't know. If I were the law firm, it's four years. I better do what he wants for the next, and then later I'll get him.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So it's coming and going. I think it does create a really interesting situation for Democrats to whether they're going to be as bullying going forward. And you don't think they will. I think they will.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, where they're attacking is law firms, judges, media. It sort of makes a lot of sense. And it's very strict. It's a very strict effort to like stymie law firms from defending press people, for example, things like that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But that's, they also like money quite a bit, Jen. I don't know if you know that. I understand that. We'll go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon hits the campaign trail in Wisconsin and also acquires his own company.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I brought in Jen Psaki, the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Psaki, who also has a new podcast, The Blueprint, which is excellent. I recommend everyone to listen to it. We're doing a little crossover event because I was on her show this weekend. She promised to bring dirty jokes in Scott's absence on the show.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Jen, we're back. Elon says the destiny of humanity rests on the Wisconsin Supreme Court election, which is happening Tuesday afternoon. Elon appeared at a town hall in Green Bay, Wisconsin on Sunday, where he gave out million-dollar checks to two Wisconsin voters. He also wore a cheese head at one point. He didn't look bad in the cheese head, I'll be honest with you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Most people don't look good in cheese heads, so I guess that's a pro. But I think it looked okay. I think it worked for him. Okay. And blamed George Soros when he was heckled, which is kind of ironic since he was paying people to be there. The Wisconsin Attorney General did try to stop the giveaway, but his suit was rejected by the state Supreme Court just before Elon's event began.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Elon and his affiliated groups have now spent over $20 million to help the conservative candidate in this judicial race. We're recording a day before the election. I'd love you to assess his political. If you're in a political suit, how do you think his communications are? How do you think his impact is?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
By the way, there are also two special House elections in Florida this week to fill Matt Gaetz and Mike Walz's seats. The race for Wall's seat is tighter than Republicans expected, although both Republicans are expected to win there. Talk to me a little bit about what the Elon effect is happening. Again, there were Tesla take-down protests all over the country, some very creative.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And it's ongoing, and it's really affected Tesla stock as much as President Trump and others are trying hard to stop it.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Do you have any? Do you have a dirty joke that you promised on the air last night?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So money, just money. Do you think, I mean, his destiny of humanity, I think he's done this about, I've heard him do it 27 times in the time I've known him. It's like, if Tesla doesn't survive, humanity is doomed, he told me once. And I was like, okay, all right, sure, Chad.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And one of the things that's, he's very dramatic about this, but isn't it positive for him to be so, like, imagine a Democratic president and say Reid Hoffman decides he wants to be next to the president at all times, you know, and there was a little bit of pushback in the Obama administration when Eric Schmidt was there too much, right? He was buddies with Jim Messina.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think they were on, like, speed dial. Yes, exactly. So how do you deal with that? Do you think it's a good thing, or has it gone too far here? Everybody says they're going to have a breakup. They are. You and I disagreed. I don't think they're going to break up. Why would they? Their money is good. He's a heat shield. Those are my arguments.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So why no? Tell me, I'll tell you my yes in a second, but why no from your perspective?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, we've got a lot to get to today, but like, how is it going there? Now, explain what you're doing. You're doing 103 shows for MSNBC. Is that correct? Or what's the... Approximately.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Right. And how do you eliminate, excise someone like that? Just so people are aware, Tesla's shares are down another 4% today. It's down... 13% for the month, although year over year, he's up 50%. It took a big leap during when Trump won. Well, do you think Musk would exit himself or you think it's Trump exiting him?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think he exits himself, his business interests, but he seems to be doing all kinds of manner of Of hoping AI, you know, using the bubble and things like that. So I don't see Trump cutting ties with him. I just don't. I just think it's too problematic. He's brought him in too close. What happens? How do you deal with an angry Elon Musk? Because he's unstable, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He could do anything with enormous amounts of money. I think you keep him in the tent. You have other rich friends who take his place in the tech world or other worlds. But I'm talking about an unhinged Elon Musk attacking you. Like that could be a very, it would be the story, right? It's a great story.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, it's interesting. So, last question, one of the things we talked about was the idea of these protests, because thousands of people, over 250, protested him over the weekend with rallies held at these Tesla showrooms around the world. The protests were part of a so-called Tesla takedown movement, an effort to push back against him, encourage people to stop buying them.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Protesters brandished signs that said things like, fight the billionaire brologarchy and send Musk to Mars now. What do you make of these protests? Is there—they seem—I don't think there is—you know, Musk is blaming victimization. These are real protests. People really don't like—my son writes me about it now. He's like, what an asshole. And he liked them, right? And so—
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
How do you look at these from a Democratic perspective? Is it a good thing for the Democratic Party to see these happening? Or to me, they just don't like them. Like Reid Hoffman says, they just don't like you, bro. That's why they're there.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I think that's the only thing that's a little— Is that you wish they were—this is what they're mad about and not anything else.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
That's a really good point. Yeah, it shouldn't be about Tesla because then he's not the president.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
That's why it doesn't get affected of Trump. Although Trump's affiliation with Elon is so strong, it does have residual effects. And one of the things... Speaking of money, Elon Musk's X has been acquired by Elon Musk's XAI. Elon announced the deal on X saying the two companies' futures are intertwined. They've already been intertwined, by the way.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
They're using X data and this technology for Grok, which is their product. This officially combines the data, models, compute, and distribution. It officially does, but it's already been combined, by the way, everybody. The all-stock deal valued XAI at $80 billion and X at $33 billion. I don't think that takes into account the debt, but I'm not sure. There's a big debt thing on there.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
The price is down from $44 billion Elon paid in 2022, but it's higher than a recent $12 billion valuation. I think this is all made up because I think the company has never been a particularly good business. And all it does is it hides it now. It hides it completely within... within this AI boomlet. And even XAI probably shouldn't be worth $80 billion. It doesn't make anything.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It doesn't make any money. It makes a lot of noise. And he's not alone in this. All the other AI companies are high. But he's just putting money from one pocket into the other. And it just looks good because what he's doing is attaching. I wouldn't be surprised if he brings Tesla in on this too and merges it into Tesla.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
and then completes the picture to bring Tesla's shares up, giving it an AI value, essentially. That's why he's doing it, you think? Yeah. It gives it like this fake, phony boost? Until it's not, right? Someone's going to get ahead in AI, and so why not just fold them together, and then you don't understand the actual businesses themselves.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, yeah. We're going to do the horse and carriage.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
That's what I said. I said, remember the mime?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, you just said very quickly, like, it's another topic. You shouldn't have briefings.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, why wouldn't they do that? To me, being angry about it is like, someone was like, can you believe they did it? I'm like, yeah, I can believe it. Once again, I can believe that they would put state-run media in there. Why wouldn't they? that's good for them. Like, they'll do whatever is good for them. I don't know if we have any choice in there, honestly, to leave or go.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Somewhat innovative in a very terrible way.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Call it that. Yeah, anyway. Let me ask you one more quick question because you were there. How would you have changed if you were still there, if you were not working for Trump but a Democratic? What would you have taken from what they've done here and said, okay, good idea, this not so much? How would you modernize it? Give me two things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
When you're thinking about this, your transition from politics, you know, it's been a while. You and I met right before you started, after you left the White House. What's it been like for you shifting over?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, I agree with you at the screens. You could have people from across the country. Yes. Anyway, one more quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Jen, let's hear some wins and fails. I'll go first. My fail of the week are these continuing attacks on these students at colleges.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
They should be able to say what they want anytime they want and even criticize the United States and things. I don't even agree with some of them. And I really find it a fail that people are not more upset about this, that students, just because of things they say, Same thing with Elon Musk's attacks on people who don't like Teslas.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
If you don't like a Tesla, you should be able to say you don't like a Tesla. If you don't like Elon Musk, you should be able to say you don't like Elon Musk. And he shouldn't have to spin a conspiracy theory about it because he's sad. And one of the things that I've always noticed about this group of people, as I've said on your show and many other shows, every accusation is a confession.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
With these people, like everything they accuse people of, they're doing themselves. And so I find it really, these are students that are here. We're supposed to be an open society. If they want to dislike us, come here and dislike us. That's fine, too. That's fine, too. In fact, it makes us stronger, makes us love our countries more. our country more.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think a win is, I'm going to give it to Lisa Murkowski. Actually, both Republican senators, Dan Sullivan and the other. And they're really doing different tactics to push back on Trump. I would say I prefer Lisa Murkowski's efforts. more. She's in a safer position now that she's shown she's got the grit to stick in there, and she has the political capital to do that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I do think there should be more. You see Senator Lankford doing the same thing and calling for a look into signal gates. It would be really nice to see more of these Republican senators find their set. And of course, it's a woman who's doing it first. And I do think that's something to look up to, and we should praise those efforts when they're done by the Republican Party.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Because I do think it's, as much as we talk about the lack of spine for the Republicans, I think it's super, super hard to be in that situation if you want to have a role in government. And I'm going to add in a last one from International. Marie Le Pen, barred from the presidential run after embezzlement ruling, is really something it shows there are
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Now, there are other leaders now who have taken her place, so it's not going to really slow them down. But I do think that just shows that other countries know how to handle problems of their elected officials and are much more fair about it. Of course, there's going to be a whole conspiracy theory around her. But nonetheless, I thought that was something surprising for me.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I didn't even know that was coming. So your turn. I didn't either on Marine Le Pen.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, I would agree. I would get, I would dump him. I think he should. Just so you know, for people who don't know, Representative Kazar is from Austin, obviously. He also includes Elon Musk's largest factory. And he is terrific. He's really terrific. And he's been attacking Musk, among others. And before Musk became Musk, he had a little tangle with him. He did.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And he's also saying, let's stop with the purity tests and stop being so. He's got the right message. And it's really interesting. And it's an interesting place he's from because he's from Texas, although Austin is not really Texas, is it? In any case, those are good ones. See, that wasn't hard. See, you did it. No.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And you have still not told a dirty joke, but let me have a comic come on and talk a little bit. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, I talked to comedian Michelle Bateau on with Kara Swisher this week.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Let's listen to a clip.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Anyway, she was great. I think comics are doing some of the most interesting work right now, don't you? I have a comic on every eight weeks at least because I think they're some of the smartest people talking about politics right now and have fearlessness.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Right, right. I'm going to try to get Amber Ruffin to come on and do her set. Good. Yeah, yeah. So no jokes from you then. No jokes from you. All right, I'll do one. Why do melons have weddings? Why? They cantaloupe. Okay. All right, one more. Here's a dirtier one. Okay, dirty. That wasn't even a dirty joke, Kara. If I knew it was like a, you know. All right, let me do a penis one then.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Why did the sperm cross the road? Why? Because I put on the wrong sock this morning. Okay. Oh, but I don't even know what that means.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Okay, that's the show. Thank you so much, Jen. Jen is the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Psaki, Sundays at 12 p.m. ET. and Mondays at 8 p.m. ET. Come this spring, she'll be making the move to MSNBC's Primetime as the host of the 9 p.m. ET hour, Tuesdays through Fridays, so Jen Psaki everywhere. She's going to be surrounding you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, I'm not on Five Nights a Week on Primetime. Anyway, thanks. I knew you'd be good at this, and you are indeed. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. I will read this out, but thank you, Jen, so much.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Julian Villard edited the video. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
We'll be back later this week for another guest host. I'm not saying who it is. And another breakdown of all things tech and business. But Jen, again, thank you so much.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Right, right. So we're going to give you a little workout today on that. So you're going to have a lot to get to today. So including Tesla protests worldwide, Elon buying his own company in a weird situation. kind of flim-flammy kind of thing, and Trump's latest pardoning spree.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And we're also going to talk a little bit about the White House Correspondents Association, which you have had a lot of experience with. I have some thoughts on all the things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Okay. So let's first talk with the latest with Signalgate. I call it Whiskey Leaks. I know.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I like that Whiskey Leaks. It's good. Come on. I'm sorry if you could have that, but you deserve it. This weekend, there were reports that Trump was asking around for opinions on whether he should fire National Security Advisor Walz. But when asked by NBC, the president said he doesn't, quote, fire people because of fake news and witch hunts.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Defense Secretary Pete Hegg says is really helping the We're Not Messy cause by reportedly bringing his wife to two meetings with foreign military counterparts where sensitive information was discussed. So talk about this. Like, you've been in there where there's been a gate, blank gate, whatever it happens to be. Every administration has them. something occurs. What happens inside versus outside?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And this is a unique president who just doesn't want to give in to the media. I think that is a bigger deal than people realize. But neither did Biden, right? Biden probably doesn't either, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It looks like everyone was freelancing because he had that disastrous, Waltz was disastrous. Even on Fox News, he was disastrous. If Laura Ingraham doesn't believe your line of bullshit, you're kind of fucked.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
A fuck-up. So what happens now? What happens now when it's still here? It still hasn't left. It's a little bit like a sore that won't heal.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, I don't think they will. I don't think I think he'll survive it. Yeah, exactly. So more on Trump's feuds with lawsuits. Wilmer Hale and Jenner and Block have sued the Trump administration over executive orders targeting them for employing. Attorneys are representing groups he doesn't like. Since being in office, Trump has signed five executive orders targeting law firms with punishments.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
One firm, Paul Weiss, got out of Trump's crosshairs by agreeing to perform $40 million worth of pro bono work for Trump-friendly causes. Skadden, another major law firm, has agreed to provide $100 million of free legal work. Federal judges have temporarily blocked Trump's efforts to punish Wilmer Here and Jenner and Block, and others like Perkins Coie are pushing back. How do you think about this?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Because this is something maybe you wished you could have done in the Biden administration, but you're always—and a lot of these firms are doing it for financial reasons because— Clients will leave them if they don't have security clearances or if the Trump administration is hostile to them. So they would see an exit of clients, presumably.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Even if they lose, because the judges are pushing back on these things, it will have done business damage to these companies, these law firms. And so it doesn't matter. And then I think later administrations, including Democratic ones, will be looking at a lot of these moves and thinking, hmm. This worked.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Maybe they may not have the permission structure Trump has, but it's not once it once it's crossed, you're like, huh, could I do that? Even if you say I'd never do that, you kind of are like, I could maybe have a little more influence over irritating lawyers or irritating press people. So maybe I'll sue a little bit more. I think it opens a floodgate of behaviors.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And I think if Democrats think they'd never do it, I think they're not telling the truth.
Pivot
Demis Hassabis on AI, Game Theory, Multimodality, and the Nature of Creativity | Possible
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher, and today we're sharing an episode of Possible, hosted by one of our recent guests, Reid Hoffman. Join Reid and his co-host, Aria Finger, as they sit down with the co-founder and CEO of Google DeepMind, Demis Hassabis, one of the most influential figures in AI.
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Demis Hassabis on AI, Game Theory, Multimodality, and the Nature of Creativity | Possible
They'll dive into game theory, medicine, multimodality, the nature of innovation, and how board games and video games shape our understanding of the future of AI. Enjoy the episode and remember, you can find it and subscribe to Possible wherever you listen to podcasts.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Where to draw the line. Now, the Biden administration also put export limits on semiconductors to China, other countries, to prevent China from getting ahead in the AI race, which was a goal. Then DeepSeat came out. Did you anticipate the Chinese would be able to train an AI chap out for less than $6 million? That number is... What's the real number?
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Cheap is what it, do you? With less. With less.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
With less compute. Did it change your thinking internally?
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
And instead of just two major competitors, Intel and, of course, the now popular NVIDIA, there are a slew of other newcomers in the space to contend with, including in China. I talked to her all about that and about her strategy for this new future at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center this week. This was the third event we've done there in our joint AI Discovery Series.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Did it change your thinking internally?
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
From what they learned from others. So despite all this, Huawei is reportedly about to start sending out its own advanced AI chip to Chinese customers in May. Baidu said last week that its cluster of its Kunlun chips can support DeepSeek model training. Has it fueled a rise of new players? Are you worried about losing the Chinese market?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
or other Asian markets completely, especially in the mode of terrorists, because I think the terrorists have advantage of China in many ways. So look, we give Huawei a lot of credit.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Does this create a more competitive, especially with the tariffs on top of it and the language that goes back and forth?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
It was a great conversation with a lot of insights about the state of the industry today and where it's going. And it was actually very funny. You'll see what I'm talking about when we talk about size and GPUs. So have a listen.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Part of the Trump administration's stated goal is to increase manufacturing here, which I think a lot of people... He was not the first person to talk about this. Lots of administrations have talked about that. President Biden's 2022 CHIPS Act was over $52 billion, bet to bring semiconductor R&D and manufacturing back to the U.S.,
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Trump is essentially rebranded as investment accelerator and executive order. He writes, it shall focus on delivering the benefit of the bargain for taxpayers by negotiating much better deals than those of the previous, whatever. Okay. Can you give us some insight into what those deals look like and what's changed in that regard? Because you all... profited indirectly from the chip sacks.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
TSMC's new production site in Arizona that you noted was awarded $6.6 billion in funding from the Biden administration. Some of your key processor chips will soon be made. Your historic rival, Intel, got over $7.8 billion in funding to advance their production products.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Mintel, just for people who don't know, after reporting loss in the first quarter, recently announced massive job cuts and cuts to capital expenditure. So talk a little bit about the impact of the CHIPS Act and whatever you want to call it. You can call it Phyllis if you want, but talk about... What did you say?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Yeah, Phyllis. I'd like to call it Phyllis. Yeah, whatever. I don't care what you call it. Investment accelerator... I love Kara.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Talk about the importance of this.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
And call it Phyllis the whole time. Okay, no, sorry.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Is it okay? Can I call it the Chips Act?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Industrial policy, exactly.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Right, because they've got a 20-year, 30-year.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Does it change your way of thinking around your business when this is the case? It does. Because you want to make investments. I mean, one of the things, people make investments over the long term, especially in chips. Yes.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So let's talk more about the competition, too. There's been an AI arms race going on since 2022. It's shifted the characters. Now NVIDIA is the one to beat in GPU and data sector. In a Time article, you noted announcing you 2024 CEO of the year, you were quoted as telling your engineers that you have negative slack. You said, whatever we do organizationally, we cannot slow down. Talk about that.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
How has the ARIs changed your strategy and where do you put your energy then?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Give me an example of one that you were like.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Though for the record, Lisa never brags. It's always the dudes. Sorry. They're always like, it's going to solve cancer. You've never done that to me. And I thank you for that.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
That's why I like you.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I think they're often doing it because they're like, pay no attention to this other stuff we're doing, but we're going to solve cancer. Right.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Negative slack. What is that exactly? I love the term. What is this?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I see. So one area where you've been expanding is in data centers. When you took over AMD in 2014, the company's share of data center chip market was basically zero. At the end of 2024, your sales in that sector had increased. It was like maybe 1%. 1%, okay, okay. Well, basically zero, okay. Okay. I'm good at math. No, you're good at math. I'm not good at math at all.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I'm not even good at making tooth fairy AI stuff. Your sales in that sector increased 69% year over year to record $3.9 billion. In March, you bought ZT Systems for just under $5 billion. They designed data center equipment. Talk about this move to AI factory market, which is what NVIDIA has also been expanding. And in these data centers, a lot of people feel there's been a bubble in this.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. I've spoken to many people here on the podcast about the AI race, and a lot of the focus has been on generative models and the companies that make them.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Some people think there's not been enough of one. And you've said you want to offer customers an open data center system rather than a proprietary system with all-inclusive pieces. Explain what you mean by that and how that makes you more competitive. So talk about the data centers and then the open idea. Yeah.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
It is over. Lisa, thank you so much for coming. The last time we sat down for an interview was 2021. It seems like forever ago.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Apple's done pretty well with that one.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Not initially, but then they did.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So NVIDIA also has 90% of the AI accelerator market last year, but you were trying to compete in this space. In March, you inked a multi-billion dollar deal with Oracle, a big data consolidator, I guess, I don't know what you call it now, for a new, I'm going to get this right, MI355X AI accelerators. So talk about this deal and explain AI accelerator market and why you decided to get into it.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
It wasn't that long ago, but a couple milestones have passed since then. In 2022, AMD passed your biggest rival, Intel, in market cap for the first time. Congrats on that. Thank you. A few months later, ChatGPT came out and basically started the AI race. And of course, most recently, President Trump launched a trade war with China. I don't know if you've heard about it, but it's happening.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I know, to talk about chips. Yes, we're very excited.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
In performance of these chips.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
These GPUs. That's correct. Can I ask you a side question? It's not in here. Why do men always talk about GPUs like they're talking about their penises? Why is that?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Seriously, I've got 10,000. No, I've got 20,000. No, I put 100,000 together. Like, it's so strange. I don't even know how to answer that question. How should I answer that question? I mean, I'm good with big, but what is... You must be like, oh, stop it, boys. I mean, I know you do.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
All right. Sorry. I just had to ask. Again, has never done this to me, never called me about her big GPUs, but right now she just did. She kind of did in a very classy way. All right. A lot of big tech customers, Google, Microsoft, Apple, Meta, Amazon, have started designing their own chips. You know, this is something I've heard Tim Cook talk about it. Does this concern you? Talk about that.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I would think Apple would be the one, would be the most forward of those, but maybe perhaps not. But talk a little bit about that because they want to control their destiny. Sure. Sure.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Maybe a little. Maybe a little. You would have to pay a lot of attention to it. So rank these three in terms of importance of how you're thinking about your business right now, your place, your competitors, innovations, political challenges. Yeah.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So I want to switch gears a bit and talk about R&D. You're one of the few Fortune 500 CEOs with a PhD. You said you fell in love with semiconductors when you got, as you said, an engineering student at MIT and got a part-time job in a lab. Your alma mater and Johns Hopkins are two of the universities now suing the Trump administration for trying to cap research funds.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
How do you look at these governmental caps and other freezes to university research, which presumably is very critical in your mind, I would assume, but...
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
you know, to commercial interests. How under-seized do you think that is right now? It could ruin a whole generation of scientists, whether it's healthcare or tech.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
How do you prevent that? Do you have to step in? Do companies have to step into this?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Very important. So I'm going to go on to the next thing, which is you grew up in New York, but many top tech CEOs with immigrant roots first came to the US for college or grad school. I'm thinking of Jensen Huang of NVIDIA, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, Alphabet's Sundar Pichai, IBM's Arvind Krishna, and yes, Elon Musk. Many have come to this country, to name a few. And so many.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
There's so many everywhere. The Trump administration has been targeting some foreign students, although that's moving back and forth, trying to take away green cards. Talk about the importance of luring top talent from around the world. And tech industry has depended on it almost completely.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
If I had to go through the various people who have invented things in this country, it's really pretty much heavily oriented towards people who have come from elsewhere.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
What do you do to stop? this particular trend from happening? How do you lobby against that? Because I just heard from three major technologists who are people you do not want to lose in this country. France is offering them visas and tons of money to move there.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
And they're scared too, personally, because they happen to be vocal supporters of Kamala Harris, for example, and they're thinking of moving. That's at the top echelons. How do you get that back in the bottle? How do you get that? Because other countries are now moving in to take advantage, France, many other countries.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Yeah, I have never heard these people say this. This is something that was new. It was fresh for me. And I don't like to use the term unprecedented, but it felt like it when I heard it. So one of the things I've noticed, you're incredibly diplomatic. I appreciate it.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
But you're one of the top tech CEOs in the country. Do you have a role or responsibility to speak out? Someone told me, I'm saying a lot of things just recently, a pretty high-ranking, well, very high-ranking CEO, tech CEO. I'm saying a lot of things privately, Cara. Like, trust me. And I was like, what are you saying privately? What is going on? Do you feel like you have to speak out?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Or most of them have not been. And in fact, some of them have been front and center at the inauguration and stuff like that. What do you think your role is, and how difficult is it right now, especially when some irritating reporter is asking you this question?
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I did not say irritating. You know why? Because you have bigger CPUs than those men.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Is tech spending too much time on politics? You've seen the impact on Musk's companies, for example. And it's not only because the cars aren't innovating. To me, it's hard. No, I mean it. You can talk all you want. But as you said, innovation matters. And if they had a cool car, it would sell. Instead, they have the Cybertruck. You know not have to comment, but it's ugly. I know you think that.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Right. It seems like often a giant waste. It's exhausting to a lot of people in the technology itself.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
They're not good at it either.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Okay, so let's finish up with two more questions. When you took over as CEO of AMD in 2014, people don't realize that the company was close to bankruptcy. Its stock was around $3 a share. You famously decided not to go for mobile, which was the hot new thing at the time, and you're right. Lisa Su and AMD is a two-part Harvard Business School case study. Very exciting.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
As I mentioned, you were a time CEO of the year in 2024. This is my complimentary period. When AMD had a record year. She didn't start with this, right? But your stock, like a lot of stocks, has had a tough time this year. Your quarterly reports come out next week, which you can't talk about. But you said you have to think long term in the business. So what are you banking on in the next year?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
couple of years, what is your biggest worries as a CEO? You're obviously always looking at the stock market. The stock market is going all over the place, largely because of the tariffs, mostly the tariffs, actually. What do you have to think about? Because the values, I mean, NVIDIA got hit hard. People don't know what to make of these things. So how do you look at that?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So on that, you have an event coming up in June called Advancing AI 2025 about the vision for AI. But tell me what you think. What is the thing that people aren't thinking about right now? And what's the thing they're thinking too much about right now? What would you say is overhyped and underhyped, I guess?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So my very first question, be a big visionary here. What's a thing that you would love to see it do?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
You can, but I don't believe you. But go ahead.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
And of your things that you're most nervous about? So that's techno-optimist, techno-nervous, right?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
It's not just crazy people or Hollywood.
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AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
But the real power and a lot of the tension in the AI space is in the hardware, the semiconductor industry that is building all of that compute. My guest today has been a leader in the chips industry for more than a decade. Lisa Su, CEO of Advanced Micro Devices, better known as AMD.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Kateri Yochum, Dave Shaw, Megan Burney, Megan Cunane, and Kaylin Lynch. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Claire Cronin and Eric Litke. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda, and our theme music is by Trackademics.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
If you're already following the show, you're as dead sexy as a semiconductor chip. If not, you've got negative slack at this point. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
How is it being used from your perspective right now compared to what it's going to be?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
All right. It did okay. In that realm. It did not do great, I would say. I would say it got worse and worse as it went on, as I kept arguing with it. And then it started misspelling everything egregiously, and I just said, go back to the first one.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I'll show you. I'm going to send you now. I'm going to text you.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
I was using ChatGPT. Is there a better tooth fairy model for someone? I'm certainly not using XAI for tooth fairies. I'm worried about what I could get back. So I want to start with the challenges for you, for a company like yours, especially a trade war. You've just come back from a trip to Japan and Taiwan.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
A majority of your chips are built in Taiwan, the world hub for the semiconductor production. That should be the 51st state, honestly, in some ways. The administration has been all—oh, that would bother China, I suspect— The administration has been all over the map on this one.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
In his executive order, President Trump said there would be no so-called reciprocal tariffs on semiconductors, and he said there would be soon. Same day, Commerce Secretary Lutnick said a semiconductor tariff would be coming in a month or two, but who knows? How are you dealing with that? Talk about the challenges here.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Do you feel like you need to react to these things, or are you just sort of quietly sitting in the corner crying into your...
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
When Su took over AMD in 2014, which a lot of people warned her not to do, the company was almost on the verge of bankruptcy. By 2022, AMD was thriving and has surpassed its biggest rival Intel in market cap. Last year, Su was named Time's CEO of the Year. I really always like talking to Lisa.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So when you have these tariffs coming in and out, Taiwan is facing a 32% tariff. Officials there said they had talks with the administration earlier this month and offered a zero tariff regime. Is that something that might be agreed to? Have you had conversations with the White House about this? Obviously, it affects your business.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
And I think our... When you say, we've talked about the implications of tariffs, how does that conversation... Mine would begin with, what the fuck? Are you kidding me?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
We have a great rapport, largely because she's a straight shooter, and she actually tells me exactly what she thinks all the time, even when we don't agree on things. She's also, unfortunately, one of the few women CEOs in tech, and so she stands out for that reason alone. But she also stands out because she's incredibly qualified for the job, and it's a big job these days.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So if the administration levies that 32% tariff on Taiwanese semiconductors, and it keeps tariffs in China in place, which at last call were 145%, I think, China has ramped up its own tariffs, although it has said chips manufactured in Taiwan will be exempt, which can help you. On the other hand, Beijing has also suspended export of rare earth minerals, which are essential for semiconductors.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So how do you deal with that as a CEO? I mean, these are incoming from all sides.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
So you aren't just dealing with tariffs, by the way. The Commerce Department also issued an export licensing requirement for sending your MI308 chips to China. AMD says that export controls could result in charges up to $800 million. To be clear, China was AMD's second largest market. As you just noted, you want to have markets everywhere. It made up nearly a quarter of your sales.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Do you think there's room for negotiation with the administration? And where are you with that?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Is it appropriate, this more focus on national security over other things? Because they weren't paying attention at all, but most of those chips went into, like, games and cars and things like that, which is, like, who cares, essentially.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
Right, but is it appropriate to focus so much on the national security aspects of it?
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
You would think that the increased demand for the best high-powered chips to fuel the AI race would mean that Sue and Andy were just coasting, but not so. There are a lot of headwinds, not the least of which are the back-and-forth terror threats, export controls, funding cuts, and all the other chaos coming from the Trump administration in the past 100-plus days.
Pivot
AMD CEO Lisa Su on the “Dead Sexy” AI Chips Race - On with Kara Swisher
And how do you do that? I'm really curious what you actually say in these meetings.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
The China thing, they're always bringing the Xi or me kind of argument.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Yeah, that's the big joke.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
So an agent that writes better dick jokes. Go ahead.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Scott, we've got a very special guest today, someone I like very much in Silicon Valley, which is an unusual thing. Joining us today is Reid Hoffman.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Yeah. Yeah. That would be your agent, wouldn't it be? Yes. So let me, speaking of that, what he was talking about, you just raised $24, $25 million in funding for AI drug discovery startup, focusing on cancer research. This is something that, you know, Sam did this at the White House event, for example. And your book is called Super Agency. So this is drug discovery.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Super Agency is what you're writing about. Of these many things, where do you think the quicker is and the more important for the economy. Explain what super agency is, what you were just saying, correct?
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
So we're doing a new thing on Pivot. We're going to make people stay the whole show, and Reid is our very first guest to do this. We're having a really good friend of Pivot. It's not just a friend of Pivot, it's an extremely special friend of Pivot. Reid is the co-founder of LinkedIn, obviously, the host of podcasts, Masters of Scale, and Possible.
Pivot
DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Right. But that's not agency. That's the other things it's going to do, like climate and everything else. That's your focus. And so you're sort of... Where is most of your money going? Agents, these agents that you just spoke of, or is it, you know, or is it these other things? Or is it just like electricity? We don't know where it's going to be applied.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
It can be applied, you know, to everything from light bulbs to, you know, electrocuting people, right? You just don't know what the application is.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
He's also the author of a new book, Super Agency, What Could Possibly Go Right With Our AI Future. I feel like he's positive about the future. I'm not on everything. Welcome, Reid, again.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
The comparative, the comparative. So any amount of money spent is good money spent from your perspective.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
In any case, we've got a lot to get to today. We're going to take a quick break. Then we'll talk through some of this week's big headlines with Reid.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Good. So we're going to talk about a lot of stuff. And last time we talked was at your event right before the election, which you had participated in. We're going to talk a little bit about that. Before we start, we have to acknowledge this tragic crash at Reagan Airport in D.C. on Wednesday night, the worst air disaster in over 15 years.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Scott and Reid, we're back. We've got a lot to get to today. Let's get into some headlines now. Meta will pay Trump $25 million settlement for shutting down his accounts after January 6th. Most of the payment will go towards Trump's presidential library again, much as Disney's payment of $15 million is going to do that.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
X, who also kicked Trump off the platform after January 6th, says it's negotiating its own settlement with Trump. Apparently, the Trump people said Mark wasn't going to get into the tent unless he did this. You don't seem to be paying anybody millions of dollars to get in the tent. So what do you think, Reid?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Okay, what does that mean?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
It's a vig. It feels like a vig to me. That sounds like a mob move to me.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
You know, I wouldn't want a nice company you got there. I wouldn't want anything to happen to it.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Couldn't he keep doing this, suing people and getting these things?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
An American Airlines regional plane with 64 people on board collided in midair with a Blackhawk helicopter with three soldiers aboard. Recording this on Thursday morning as the recovery operation is underway in the Potomac. There was a press conference a little while ago. Authorities confirmed there are no survivors. 28 bodies have been recovered so far.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Yes. Call me Mika Brzezinski, but go ahead.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
In this case, it wasn't statements. He broke the rules of Facebook and they kicked him off. That's all. It was not, as Reid was not- Which they're allowed to do. Yeah, exactly. So when we talked in October, I asked if you were concerned about Trump and retribution and your own well-being, and you said yes. Talk about now. How are you feeling?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Because obviously you were one of the more prominent supporters of Kamala Harris, obviously a big Democratic donor. You do give to Republicans also, for which for some reason you get endless shit. I'm not sure why. I think that's probably fine to do that. How do you feel now? Do you feel in that crosshairs that we had discussed?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
It was a flight coming in from Wichita and the Blackhawk, they don't know. I'm not going to speak about it because I don't know anything about this. I don't have any extra information. It's tragic and very, very sad. But the authorities here seem to be doing their best to figure out what happened and moving on. And we're not going to politicize it.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Are these the same people that said he wasn't going to let out everybody on January 6th? He wasn't going to let out the criminals, but then he did.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
He's done that several times. He's done that several times.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Right. But you didn't want a presidential pardon, correct? No, of course not. Yeah, you didn't do anything.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Mm-hmm. Let me just say, Amanda loves this whole jam, Scott. She was like, Scott's on fire. I love it. She was vaguely attracted to you, I think.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
She was. She wanted me to tell you. I think you're right. But I think it's, you know, people that are very high profile, like Reid, certainly aren't backing down and don't seem to be disappearing. He's right here, right? He's talking about it. So, Thank you.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
We're not going to do everything that has already broken out online. Any reaction from either of you? You don't have to have any whatsoever. But Scott?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Yeah, except for the people who died, of course.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
All right, Scott and Reid, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about RFK Jr. 's contentious confirmation hearing.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
HHS Secretary nominee Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is in the hot seat for the second day of his confirmation hearing. Things got a little heated on day one with Kennedy rejecting claims that he's anti-vaccine, addressing abortion flip-flops, and struggling with the question about Medicare and Medicaid. He's also asked some of his previous controversial comments.
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Let's listen to exchange with Democratic Senator Michael Bennett, who's a favorite of Scott's and mine.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Kennedy's own family is also expressing concerns. JFK's daughter, Carolyn Kennedy, sent a letter to senators ahead of the hearing. She called her cousin a predator and accused him of exploiting their family's tragic history. Let's listen.
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Oh, anyway, I'm sure it was DEI. If they start with that, I'm not going to have any of it. It's ridiculous. There aren't enough air traffic controllers. And obviously, there's been a lot of uncertainty around the federal workforce right now, but it has nothing to do with this particular tragedy. But That said, it's a wonderful system that we have.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Okay, that was the nice part, just so you know for everybody, which wasn't very nice. You know, all these things seem to be going through Pete Hegseth and everybody else. Any of them you'd like to comment on? The Kennedy one is particularly, it looks like he will probably get through. Same thing with Tulsi Gabbard and et cetera, et cetera, on down the line. What is happening here?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
I made my sons get it immediately when it happened. Reid, how are you looking at these? Obviously, you're making these AI investments in cancer research. This guy will be right there at the head of all these organizations that are very related to some of these things.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
And at the same time, just for anyone, I live in D.C., flying into DCA is terrifying. I find it terrifying. There's so much air traffic going on. You see helicopters. There's a weird twist that you have to do because of all the federal buildings, including the Washington Monument and the White House. And so whenever you're coming in, I find it.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Have you been surprised by how many tech people have been attracted to him? I'm not going to leave out Nicole Shanahan. She was not a tech person. She's just a rich person who married a tech person and got money that way. Have you been surprised by that?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Because there is a whole strain of people who really back him in the tech area, even as they make these big investments in AI and cancer and where he will have an impact.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Actually, Gates did this the other day with Trump, which was disappointing.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Well, let's leave it at that then.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
I'm going to go first, actually. I'll be at the White House soon with Tracy Flick, the new press secretary. The White House is welcoming podcasters to the briefing room. Carolyn is running it right now. She has decided that new media, which I agree with, including independent journalists, podcasters, and influencers, will be able to ask questions at briefings. I welcome this.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
The Biden administration should have done it, should have had different and not just the traditional people. So I'm super excited to go to the White House, and I will be there this year. That's my prediction, that Carolyn is going to let me in, Tracy, slash whatever the heck she is. Thank you. Any comment?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
It makes me nervous to come in because it's such a highly trafficked area with military and everyone else. But we'll see what happened here because you're right, it never happens. But let's move on. And we're so sorry for the families of all the people that were killed. We're going to talk all about the deep-sea craziness in a sec. But first, Reid, I want you to start this.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Yeah, I know she wants me there. She wants me on that wall.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
This is the CNN person, for people who don't know, who left when they tried to put him on at midnight. He started his own. He has started a bunch of stuff on his own, and he's a great guy. We love him.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Okay. Reid, your prediction.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Why are you so positive about our AI future? I know you've talked about, you know, things that could go wrong and stuff. Your position on AI is somewhere between doomers, gloomers, and zoomers. You call yourself a bloomer, accelerating toward a bright future but managing risk. Can you just explain yourself so we can put you in the – where we put you on the map here? Yeah.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Well, unless, you know, as you know, I interviewed the mother of the character AI. There's the lawsuit there. They can take that turn where they shouldn't be around young people, for example. You're talking about adults here, correct?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
So that they will, so that there are good agents. My only issue is the potential for abuse is so massive and you're seeing it. The lack of care, you know what I mean? Like why didn't that kid, why didn't that company alert it when the kid said suicide? Like for stuff like that, like what, where was, why was that never there? And that's the problem. And their argument is now that it's free speech.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
It was going to be Section 230, but now it's these agents, these, like in that case, should bots have free speech? Like that's the kind of stuff we're going to have to deal with as a society. Is it free speech when it's bot generated?
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Yeah. Well, that's one of the issues we're going to talk about because it will be just off the fly. I prefer kind agents to mean ones, but I suspect I, this is why I love Reed. He's such a sunny character, but I expect really mean agents because people like that, like abusive agents and that kind of stuff. Yeah.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
I don't know. I'm going to, as usual, take a darker turn on the thing. We'll see which our future brings us. Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week on Profiting Markets, Scott spoke with Robert Armstrong, U.S. financial commentator for the Financial Times. Let's listen.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Okay, Scott and Reid, that's the show. Thank you for joining us, Reid. And again, your new book is Super Agency, What Could Possibly Go Right With Our AI Future. Thank you, Reid, again. Scott, read us out.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
But one of the things that a lot of people are talking about is cost to zero for lots of things. I mean, Marc Andreessen, I've heard it from Vinod, this idea that everything will cost pennies. Sometimes you all go over the top. So that's why people question your, not credibility for you, but some people's credibility.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
You're not going to see it. So why don't you just go in? Because some of our listeners are like, we didn't say enough about DeepSeek. Well, honestly, we don't know. Scott and I don't know, like you, for example. So it caused a frenzy in tech and markets. So we brought Reid in to explain, listeners, because we're idiots. Fine. So DeepSeek caused this frenzy in tech and the markets. I'd love your...
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
take on what we're seeing and what excites you about it and what worries you. And I will note that OpenAI, where you were an early investor, you're no longer on the board, and Microsoft, where you are on the board now, are investigating whether OpenAI's data was stolen to build DeepSeek's model. They were also relying on open source stuff like Lama from Meta, et cetera.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
So talk a little bit about, give your take on this and make it a hot take because that's who the person you are.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
So they were riding off of your rails, in other words.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Right. So as they were saying, it was $5 million to $6 million. No one thinks that because, again, it's the talent that they hired, they put in place. It was a lot of younger people, correct? That's their story, that it wasn't highly paid.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
The cheapness of it. What excites you about it and why did it have such a market impact from your perspective? You saw Nvidia got crashed, it came back up, but this was the idea because it's the economic underpinnings of this. which everyone's worried about, this amount of money, $50 billion, $80 billion, et cetera. Microsoft is 80, I think. Matt is 60.
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DeepSeek Fallout, Meta Settles with Trump, and Guest Host Reid Hoffman
Let me just say, Amanda loves this whole jam, Scott. She was like, Scott's on fire. I love it. She was vaguely attracted to you, I think.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
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No, they make you put them in a box. They make you put it in one of those lead boxes.
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The astonishing reaction of, well, nothing happened. The operation was a success. I'm like, I don't care.
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We don't know. Who knows? I don't trust any of you people to tell the truth on anything. And then misdirecting it towards Goldberg. Two things. Let me make two points. One... You're a bunch of morons. Again, lying morons. Two, Goldberg was doing the right thing here, and he's a fucking badass for doing all... He did everything right. Ethically, he did.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
I can't believe this happened right after we taped the last show. Let's get right into a fallout from Signalgate. Some people are calling it Whiskey Leaks. Do you like Whiskey Leaks?
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And then when they challenged him about whether it was true, he didn't release the text initially. But then he's like, fuck you. I'm going to release the text. The third thing is, let me just tell you, Do you know who's also a quiet hero here? Lorraine Powell Jobs, owner of the Atlantic, is letting this keep going, right?
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Because there's a lot of corporate people who are pulling in their horns for Trump, whether it's Disney paying that settlement with George Stephanopoulos or Paramount considering it.
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Fuck Paul Weiss. Like all these people are doing this. And Lorraine Powell Jobs is running the Atlantic. If you don't think they're going to come at her or they've already come at Jeff Goldberg over that Nazi piece he wrote about Trump. You remember Jeffrey did that story that infuriated the Trump people.
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Let me just tell you, if you look, I was just thinking, who's the Catherine Graham of this era? Right. People like her, like, that are not backing the fuck down. And there's a billionaire. Not all billionaires are bad. She's a billionaire. She has got a lot of bravery to put up with this stuff and to be able to take the pressure.
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When I think of Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and the rest of them, and Musk sitting and sort of prostrating himself to Trump and what she just did, just, again, just a real differential. And this puts people in danger. And I think it's, again, a good topic for Democrats to attack on. You're incompetent and you're liars over and over again.
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And then the other excuse they're using on Fox News, which are also complicit in trying to defend this after attacking Hillary Clinton relentlessly for years over something that was much less serious by a factor of 10. Do you remember when you accidentally added a random person to our pivot text chain? Do you remember that?
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You did. You added some guy. And he's like, hey, I'm here. Okay, if Scott does that, that was fucking annoying enough. But the media on the right is saying, well, everyone knows about that. Everyone's done that. That's so me, isn't it? Jesse Waters, you're a moron. You're a fucking moron.
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I think it was someone with a JG on the staff that he thought he was adding. I think he thought he was adding someone else. That's what I think.
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You know what? They all had the same attitude. What in the actual fuck? That was the tone. What in the actual fuck? The only person who's conducted himself kind of like better than all of them is Trump, because he's like, yeah, I think it looks like they fucked up. But Then he, of course, defends them by attacking the reporter.
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Do you think someone's going to pay? No. Walls, maybe. Let's take a bet. Which one?
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Heg Seth or Walls? Not Heg Seth. He seems to like Heg Seth, despite the fact that it looked like he was drunk texting. That's what it seemed like to me.
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I don't think he cares that he's putting- He had documents in his bathroom.
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Do you like their schemes of how he got? It was a hoax. It was a hoax. Yeah, it was a hoax. He's a spy. He's an asset. I've never met him. And then, of course, inevitably, when he goes, I've never met Jeffrey Goldberg, literally picture of them standing, talking together. They have met. He's a national security person. Jeff Goldberg is known for national security reporting.
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They know each other, like literally. It's sort of when Trump always goes, I've never met Maggie Haberman or I've never, you know, I don't know that person who worked with me for five, 10 years.
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We are so annoying. Journalists are so fantastically annoying these days. I love it.
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Perfectly. Perfectly. We'll see if it matters. Actually, the snap polls are people are like, what in the act? Because one thing that it does, I do think it's more, this is a real crisis, is because everyone understands this. It's very easily understandable what they did, because everyone has been in. The one thing they're telling the truth is everyone has been in these things.
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And they're like, you did what? You did, you know what I mean? Like this, this is something understandable to the average citizen of incompetence. Like, Even my mother at first. And of course, my mother immediately went when she didn't know about it because Fox wasn't covering it properly. And then I explained it. She was like, well, that's not good. And I was like, no, it's not.
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And she goes, but Hillary did it. And I'm like, that's where you go. I was like, not really. And then Biden did it. But that's where they're going. Here's one of my let me just finish this by one proposal. I was thinking about what do you do about this? Like this shit has been going back and forth.
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between Republicans and Democrats, this leakage of information, right, in this highly informational age. I think we just decide from this day forward, everyone else before this, you get off the hook for it. The government is sloppy around everyone in the government, whether it's Democrats or Republicans, have been sloppy.
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arguably sloppy around communications and especially classified communications. Everyone gets a pass. From now on, if you do it again, if you've sideloaded shit or you're using your personal phone, you're going down. From now on, we're going, everybody, nobody gets a pass from, it's not going to happen in the Trump administration, but let's just clear the playing field.
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And from now on, these are the rules. And if you break them, you're going to jail. That's what I would do. What do you think?
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The other thing I think they were doing, and I think people haven't talked about it enough, is they're on signal because they're trying to avoid accountability. And they don't want people to see these things.
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What are we going to do? Are we going to dry out clinic with you? What are we doing? What fun thing can we do?
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And so what they're doing is they're – all this stuff, just for people who don't know, the government is supposed to preserve all their communications on things like this, and they're trying not to preserve them. And the only last thing I would say Walz did that was astonishing to me, on Signal, you can have disappearing information. This stuff can disappear.
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And usually people set it to an hour or a day. He had four-week disappearance. I was like, are you an idiot? Like, if you're going to disappear it, disappear it right away. But I think what they were trying to do was avoid accountability.
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But that's what, at the heart of it, they were trying to abrogate their responsibility to preserve accountability. And I think that's why they were on that chain. And so they were hiding. They were hiding, and then they got caught, essentially.
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And the Russians don't know. The Chinese don't know. And the Iranians don't know it. This is this is so it's it's just moronic. It's moronic and they're liars and they're trying to hide at the same time. Anyway. OK, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump unveils his latest tariffs.
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Scott, we're back. President Trump announced a 25% tariff on imported cars and car parts. Let's listen.
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I understand you're looking for... It makes sense for me to drink less. Tell it to Pete Hegseth, Whiskey Link's, the head of Whiskey Link's.
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He's so obsessed with, first of all, his digressions are so strange about the desk, but his obsession with we're getting cheated is really, it's becoming like, what's your fucking problem, dude? Everyone's not trying to cheat you all the time. And again, every accusation is a confession. He's a cheater. And so he focuses in on cheaters and takers and things like that.
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And that's exactly what he is. The terrorist will go into effect on April 2nd and will apply to finish vehicles shipped into the U.S., including from American brands that assemble outside the country. Almost half of all vehicles sold in the U.S. are imported. But lo and behold, Tesla will be spared. While the Musk company does import parts, it makes vehicles in the U.S.
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And that means your people can focus on the work that they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started at servicenow.com slash AI dash agents.
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However, Elon posted on X saying, important to know that Tesla is not unscathed here. The tariff impact on Tesla is still significant. No, it is not. Again, a lie. Do you think Trump will pull these back? And what does he keep doing here? Because it really spooked. The markets were recovering a tiny bit, and then they didn't. So any thoughts on this?
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You're not going to ask my blood pressure. I just had it taken. Do you want to know?
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and la in
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Well, it's got a janky inside if you stay there. It's like a really old hotel. It's made out of a firehouse, but it's all these twists and turns.
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So I was just thinking about this, like things were on par with advertising to do really well this year. And now this tariff thing that Trump's doing is fucking with everybody's business and ads. They're showing a little bit. Now they're like, oh, maybe not so much because things were really sort of the juice was going for a minute there.
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But they're noticing that when people pull, they're going to pull from this. Is that a worry?
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The shift, yeah. Maybe people are thinking, you're right. Okay, I wanted to understand that. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
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Can I make it... An interjection here, because there's just a new story from New York Times today that Trump administration abruptly cuts billions from state health services. This is across our country. States have been told they can no longer use grants that were funding infectious disease management and addiction services.
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Okay, we're going way off the whiskey leagues.
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They've cut $12 billion in federal grants to states who are being used to track infectious diseases, mental health services, addiction treatment services. and other urgent health issues, that means these state health departments were already underfunded or in real trouble. They received notices Monday that the funds which were allocated are being terminated.
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And let me just say, in Lubbock, Texas, public health officials, this is not to, these are red states, just so you know, red state people. They're leopards about to eat your face. Public health officials have received orders to stop work supported by these three grants that helped fund the response to the Whiting measles outbreak there, according to Catherine Wells.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
So what are you doing with your health? Let's move away from children.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
On Tuesday, some health departments were preparing to lay off dozens of epidemiologists and data scientists. This is the same thing. This is goodwill and the things that the government does that are effective for people. And it's going to be the same issue in this country. The question is who's going to come into the breach, right? Which is what you're talking about with the Chinese doing that.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
It's the same attitude across this country and it will have repercussions.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
In some ways, they're just interested in making money.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Yeah, I know. And that's not good for the public comment.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Lesser services. Exactly. All right. Elsewhere in the Scott and Cara universe this week on Profiteer Markets, Scott spoke with Karsten Brzeski, a chief Eurozone economist for ING. Scott's been talking a lot about Europe, what's going on in Europe. Let's listen to a clip.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
So interesting discussion about what's happening there. I thought it was. I listened to it.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Yeah. You know, and you've been talking about the European. Now, suddenly, I'm seeing stories in the Wall Street Journal how the place you should invest in is Germany.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
You were great. European value stocks. Just for people who don't speak German, which I do, Schuld is debt, the debt, S-C-H-U-L-D. It also means blame, guilt, fault, liability, trespasses. So, Schuld, you know, when you say, excuse me, and Schuld again, or something like that, something like that.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
You just got a thing that said stop drinking. What are you doing, high blood pressure man? Where's the statin and the sitting around watching, hugging and watching?
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Let's go back. You know, whiskey leaks. Let's go to whiskey leaks. The Trump administration is denying and downplaying the wrongdoing, even though the next day, Jeffrey Goldberg from The Atlantic, the editor-in-chief. of course, released the text from the signal group that he was mistakenly added to. This is so unreal what happened here.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
The newly released messages show Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth sharing a timeline of the Yemen attack and a description of the aircraft involved, which is classified, Pete. Sorry, it is. They're pretending it's not, but it is. The latest White House strategy is insisting these were not actual war plans, which they were.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
And as Pete Hegseth told reporters on Wednesday, he knew exactly what he was doing. Let's listen.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
What an idiot. Just one. Meanwhile, national security officials were on Capitol Hill getting questioned about the signal leak and hearings becoming contentious. Democratic Congressman Jim Himes noted the worst case scenario of the whole incident at one of these hearings. Let's listen.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Among other things, where were they? Who was listening? What devices they are on? So talk about what your initial thoughts and hearing the story and what you think about the White House strategy here, arguing about semantics of what war plans and classified is and making decisions.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Jeffrey Goldberg, the enemy, and he keeps just dropping the receipts every five minutes, and they're caught out lying. Are they making things worse for themselves by not owning up to it and taking responsibility?
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Press Secretary Karen Levin, who I like to call Tracy Flick, did say in her briefing that Elon has offered to put his technical experts on the case to go figure out how Goldberg got out of the chat. Oh, my God. Stop with the Elon solution. He doesn't know anything about this. Talk a little bit about this, and then we'll get to the repercussions, if there are any.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Right. He knows more about national security than all of these people put together.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
And you know what's incredible is, of course, Trump uses his – a couple things. One, they're morons. Let's just be clear. They're also liars. They're liars about what – they're morons and liars, and then they're hypocrites because of what those things you just read. They literally were – making a big case on a much less egregious violation, right? So that's one.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Two, who knows what phones they were on? Were they on personal? They were not using, you know, my ex-wife worked in the government. I saw the phone she had. She didn't like it, but she used it because it was secure, right? She couldn't use her iPhone. You can't sideload Signal on these things. By the way, the Signal CEO is like our... She's like, I cannot fucking believe this shit.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Like, this is crazy that they were using our stuff. Now, journalists use it to talk to sources. Lots of people use it to have encrypted communications. But these are not impenetrable systems. By the way, it's a commercial app. They were definitely doing them on personal phones, and they also were definitely doing them from places. You don't know what network they were on.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
They were definitely not in skiffs doing this, which is these protected little tents that they make. They weren't on protected communications, and they were talking about war plans. Whatever word you want to use, it's information that should not be on a commercial app. The second thing is the way they put Jeffrey Goldberg.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
I think what happened is there was someone with his initials that they brought in because that's happened to me with several tech companies. I've been brought into emails at Facebook by Sheryl Sandberg one time, I think. I've been brought into seeing the earnings of a tech company before they were released to the public once because someone with my name was similar there.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
to someone at the company, and I just got emailed. I got into the email chain. It happens. People do that. But the fact that they're doing this not on a secure line and doing this with such cavalierness was just so moronic. And then to lie about it afterwards and then get caught again, it's the second time when he releases what was there. I just...
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
I don't think anyone will get fired because the people in charge of the Justice Department will not do their jobs because they're very busy protecting Elon Musk. And no one's going to get. So it may be Mike Walz will get because he also apparently his Venmo is open, too. Like, it's just... They're being sued by the government watchdog group for using Signal to discuss military plans, by the way.
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Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
And you can't make this up. Trump's not-so-favorite judge, the one overseeing the Venezuelan deportation case, got assigned to the Signal case. But is there any—it looks like Trump is just going to defend his people and maybe throw one over. But is there any recourse here? Do you see anything— What do you make of their response?
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
Pivot
Signalgate, Auto Tariffs, and Trump's Crypto Empire
Like, just from a marketing point of view, trying to get this, you know, this move on. Everyone was right after, let's move on, let's move on, let's move on. That was sort of the message from all Republicans. Now there seems to be some cracks in it because it's so serious what they did here.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
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Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
They are just going – this is a huge opportunity.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Oh, he was always like this.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
No, he was super aggressive. He was always – let me just tell you, of all the people I covered, he was the most tweaky when it came to stories he didn't like. He does not like journalists. He doesn't. He doesn't. He never did. Marc Andreessen actually kind of liked journalists.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Oh, Scott, it's like, oh, I feel like so in need of not moving anymore ever again.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I know that's what it is. I'm just saying. Bezos came from Wall Street. He worked for whatever, a hedge fund, D.E. Shaw. I don't know what that is, an investment bank hedge fund, whatever. He was older. He was money-focused. I never thought he was anything, but I called him Farrell in my book. He was Farrell. And I think he broke up with his wonderful wife.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And look, Lauren's fine, whatever, but it's a different personality. And he had an opinion. If you listen to that 2018 interview, it is a different person. Now he likes wearing those weird, unfortunate shirts that he wears and tight jeans and showing off his chest and living the good life on the yacht. And he doesn't give a fuck. You know, who knows? I think he's a really dull thinker.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Anyway, moving on. How do you really feel? President Trump hosted his first cabinet meeting, speaking of stupid, Wednesday with co-president Elon Musk in attendance. Really, truly standing up, talking almost as much as Trump. Trump recognized Musk to speak first and surveyed the room on approval for Doge's work and whether they like Elon. Guess what, Scott? Everybody applauded. Yay.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Although Marco Rubio looked like he was, you know, having diarrhea at that moment. Elon at one point said Doge had accidentally canceled an Ebola prevention program. Let's listen.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Not true. According to expert after expert, everyone on the field say nothing's been restored. It's gone from 60 people to six. He just opens his mouth and he tells, he's disingenuous. Trump also addressed efforts to slash federal workforce, which he's going to continue, including 65% or so of the EPA. He talked about terrorists, the upcoming meeting with Ukrainian President Zelensky.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He's trying to shake them down for mineral rights. So it's paper-flay military help, which we really have sort of done, but not this explicitly. Just the whole thing. And getting the cabinet just to applaud, they probably were like, they tried to resist some of this Doge stuff, and now they had to applaud in public. Yeah. Like, can you—I wish someone had gone, yeah, I don't like him.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He's a fucker, President Trump. But no one did, of course. Anyway.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And— They're claiming 60, right? They're claiming 60. Yeah, they're claiming 60.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I think that's how it's done, Scott. It's how it's done.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, yeah, grandpa, I'm a lesbian.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, I would agree. And what's happening here is they're really hurting people who voted for you. Have you seen the space? There's a great one speaking, which in the Washington Post, she hoped Trump's victory would change her life, but not like this. Doge cut her job and she was like, oh, I thought they were going to take DEI people.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Oh, Jesus, those senators. Oh, I gotta tell you, Scott, being in, right now we're like, okay, now we're in Washington and like, we're like, should we leave Washington? Because it's just so heinous. Although we never see these people, so I guess who cares, right? Who cares?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Like what, you know, honestly, leopards should eat every one of these people's faces as far as I'm concerned. You know what I mean? They did everything in their self-interest. And then he didn't do anything he said he was going to do so far, and they're cutting them. And so they're going to, you know, no schadenfreude here, but they voted for what they voted, and this is what they're getting.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
First, Measles death since 2015. First one. Planes are falling out of the sky. There's been like seven of them right now, at least seven really dangerous plane things. I mean, as I say, they exchange DEI for DAF. Dumb as fuck. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, more on Doge.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Scott, we're back. Let's talk about some of the notable Doge moments since last we taped. The White House confirmed that acting administrator of Doge is indeed not Elon Musk, but a woman named Amy Gleason. Gleason's LinkedIn lists her as U.S. Digital Services Senior Advisor. CBS News, when contacted Gleason regarding the story, said she was in Mexico and declined to comment. They just gave a name.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And that very testy woman who does press for Trump gets very testy. Very testy. She's got very Megyn Kelly vibes. Anyway, 21 Doge staffers resigned, saying in a letter they would not lend their expertise to carry out legitimizing Doge's actions. The staffers were previously part of the U.S. Digital Service, which was created by President Obama.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
So these are people who were there helping the government update themselves, and they're just not going to put up with big balls and the rest of the crew. It's the idiot douche boys crew. The Trump administration in Doge had a rough week with courts.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
On Tuesday, three federal judges dealt setbacks to the administration involving federal spending, refugees, and foreign aid, though Chief Justice John Roberts temporarily delayed a midnight deadline for the administration to unfreeze $2 billion in foreign aid payments on Wednesday. Scott, I have no comment on this. I'm in Mexico. Okay.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
She worked for the old service and from people there, she was not... She's a figurehead.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
She was not... She did not impress people with her skills. That's what I would say is how they talk about her. No, she's just a figurehead. It's ridiculous. I mean, what's interesting is, you know, they do want this to be in court all the time. So they just... It's like a ground war with these people, right?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And they keep pushing back the way they... After the Apple shareholders and they're going to threaten Tim Cook. They just never frigging give up. They're like... They're swarmers. I don't know what else to say. The strategy is probably very smart just to keep making trouble and move from department to department, making destruction, and then fixing it will be just impossible, right?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
That's the goal, I think, here.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Why don't we have any weed ads? You're like edible, edible ads. You think? Jesus. Not for you.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
E.D. slash weed ads. All right. Go ahead. What's your question?
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He's been awfully wrong about a lot of things. If you really actually follow him closely, you know, he's like, this is how it's going to go for Trump. He's going to lose this way. And then he did. So and someone noted.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I know that's true, but we're not James Carville. Right. So I think it's not a bad idea, except if it's a very serious thing. Right. If it's something really hair on fire, we should be here on fire. I think we should be – I think the Republicans, when they got into office and they were in the minority, just speaking of someone who's retiring, Mitch McConnell shut it down.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And I think that's what we should do. I think we should be difficult, obstructive, not worry about people blaming us for it. Just get in the way. Just muck up the gears. Let them make a mess. I would agree with him on that. I would agree. There's no use saying, can you believe, like someone was, I was on CNN last night with Caitlin Collins and she goes, what do you make of this Gaza AI thing?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I'm like, I don't give a fuck. It's racist. It's obnoxious. He's doing it to distract us. Moving on. It's stupid. And why are the belly dancers having beards? I don't know. I don't care. I don't care. And I think it's mean and terrible and cruel. But what do you want me to say? That's what I think he is. So I think that's the kind of reaction.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
We can't like swing at every stupid pitch these people put out. I like it. What did you think?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Great. That was great.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And also, I went to a wedding with him. He likes to party, but go ahead. You'd like him.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, that was essential. And his wife, Mary Matlin, they're an act. They were the funniest people at the lesbian wedding, but go ahead.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
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Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yes, 100%. I think aggression is, I think we let them own everything and then aggression, just be like a fucking, like do a Mitch McConnell, just do a Mitch McConnell.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
You have to write in their face. You do, because I was, I told you this, I was at an event and one of the stupid tech bros came up to me and they're like, oh, we're beating you, Kara. You know, we're beating you. And I looked at them and I said, you're still a dickless asshole. And they were like, I go, and I still don't want to talk to you. And I moved along. And they didn't know what to do.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
They were not going to get me in any way. Yeah, you have to still punch them in the nose, punch them in the nose. Anyway, speaking of punching in the nose, speaking of not lack of erection, it's been a tough week for Tesla. Tesla shares plunged more than 8% on Wednesday, pushing its market cap below $1 trillion. The stock is down 25% for the year.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
That drop followed the news that sales in Europe are down 45% from this time last year. Elon backlash is being credited with some of the recent decline, but other factors include increased EV competition from China, BYD, and consumers wanting a new model. Like, where's the new fucking model, Elon? Why don't you make better new cars? Not better cars, it's a good car. And there's lots of choices.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And nobody likes this fucker. And people are putting things on the cars, writing on the cars. People have signs on their cars saying, I hate him too. I don't know what, stop, you know, taking the air out of my tires and keying in my thing. I don't do this, but I think about keying them. I do, and that's the thing, I never think like that.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I'm like, oh, I should key this fucking car, but I don't, just everyone know that. Is there anything to be done here, or is it just a declining situation for this company?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Oh, I love that, Corey.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, it's a good looking car. For people, for context, as Scott was saying, year-over-year, it's up 47, almost 48 percent. Five-year, it's up 561 percent, and max, 22,000, 23,000 percent up. So six months is up 40 percent, one month is down, but down is where it's headed. Look, if they had a great car, people might buy it. But you're right.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I think that a hassle, even if you like Elon Musk, is probably going to bother people. And I don't hurt any of these cars, but I did yell a pin dick to someone in a Cybertruck recently, which I enjoyed.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I think one of the things that's important that people should think about is, is the product good can save you a lot of stuff. Although even if the product is good and people think you're an asshole, it does affect it. You just stop buying it. I definitely have bought less Amazon stuff because I'm like, why should I give this guy money? I'll give it to Macy's.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
It's a little harder, but it's not that much harder. They still have a better product in terms of delivery. But I'm like, I just don't like them. I just don't like them. Or I like, you know, I just, I don't want to give Jeff Bezos money. And that's how people, that's how it begins, right? And then you find other alternatives. It's a real opportunity for other car makers, that's for sure.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Small little decisions like that. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about NVIDIA beating earnings expectations and Trump's plan to woo wealthy foreign investors.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Contracts, big fat contracts.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Scott, we're back. NVIDIA has done it again with another blockbuster earnings report. Quarterly earnings were $39 billion, a 78% increase compared to Q4 last year. Profits spiked 80% from a year earlier to $22 billion, beating Wall Street's expectations. The company projected revenue in the current quarter will rise 65% to $43 billion, a little less than $78 billion, but still good. Has NVIDIA put
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
these deep-seek fears to rest. Remember, just a month ago, NVIDIA had a $600 billion wipeout when deep-seek burst on the scene. It seems like nobody's talking about that now. Thoughts on this? Because, you know, again, by the way, for people to understand, it really, the stock market rises and falls on NVIDIA's shoes right now. And only, speaking, you know who I interviewed? Aswath.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yes, he talked all about this. But it's seven stocks that are moving the stock market, and NVIDIA's at the top of the list.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He sold his Nvidia, just so you know.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
What's going to happen here? You still feel people are going to start spending less on it. They're also seeing competition. They will see competition as has other companies.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
You mean we'll talk about erect penises? Okay.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Interesting, interesting. Can I tell you, Aswath said not to do that. He thinks these U.S. companies are global companies. And so you are investing globally.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He's on my podcast today, but yeah, go ahead.
Pivot
Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And some are in cash, like Warren Buffett is much more in cash. He's moved hugely to cash. But Oswald said, don't do that because you can never time it correctly and you can... You can be too slow or too fast, like you were saying the other day. Anyway, speaking of cash, President Trump is unveiling a new visa to attract rich foreigners to the U.S., the Gold Card.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
For $5 million, very high-level people will get legal permanent residency and a new route to citizenship, according to Trump. The Gold Card would replace the current EB-5 visa, which requires investors to put in $1 million and creates at least 10 jobs. The new initiative is set to be rolled out in two weeks, although some experts are skeptical that it can happen without congressional approval.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I don't know. More than 100 countries do offer golden visas to wealthy investors and individuals, including Australia, Greece, Italy, and Spain. It's not a new idea. I don't know. It's another hand-wavy distraction. I don't know. I just feel like whatever. Like rich people always get to live where they want. So, okay.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
But it's also, Scott, it's in plain sight. Look, they're thinking of switching. Starlink people are working at the FAA and suddenly Verizon might be losing its contract to Starlink. It's like, it's so like, obviously, it's so in the open. Like, that's the thing. There used to be sort of back rooms where this shit went down. Now it's front room.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, right. Exactly. We're going to get the bad ones, like the kind of sketchy ones.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
But it's kind of the sketchy ones, right? It feels like there's a lot of mobsters from Russia.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Some of them. But it definitely, I think the rich people, the very fine rich people are already here.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
You say it like this, fancy.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Like you're watching it, and then they're telling you why you're stupid for not thinking it's smart. Like that's the whole trick. It was interesting because I have a lot of federal workers in our school, as I think I've told you, wonder if – I always ask what they do, and it's always so helpful, like the stuff they're doing, whether it's at the FDA or at the –
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Butlers. Butlers. They're good butlers. It's a butler economy. Can I give you a piece of information? Dame is an honorific title given to women who have been admitted to certain orders of chivalry. Well, it's like being a sir. Sir. It's a sir. Yeah.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
That's correct. Well, whatever's Trump. Sell your stupid gold things. You're not going to make much money at it. But whatever.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I feel like we're getting the sketchy types. It's going to be it.
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David Fahrenthold calling David Fahrenthold, The New York Times.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah. All right. Come on down, you sketchy people. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. OK, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, he's got his work is done.
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one is at the ag department, one parent's at the, and it's just so important what they're doing. And like, they don't know what to do about the stupid five things I did this week kind of thing. Like, you know, and then Musk mocks them saying it's inane and trivial. They should have been able to do it. And then, so they have an ounce of sense in the middle of lunacy.
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No, they don't like Musk. Nobody likes Musk.
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Mm-hmm, yeah, he's not quiet.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, it's interesting. People like the idea of the government efficiency thing. So do you and I.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, right. Exactly. But listen to this. This was – Puck's Peter Hamby wrote a piece not just about the polls, which you can take – the White House is saying polls show people love him and love it, which isn't true. Hamby looked at focus groups and swing voters. Who cares about the MAGA people? They're going to like no matter – he can shit on the stage. They'd like it.
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Recent focus groups of swing voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida – They like the idea of efficiency. They hate Elon Musk.
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Polls, for instance, don't tell you that Musk is a weird nerd, which is how Adam, a Trump-voting hockey fan from Macomb County, described the billionaire last week, or that he's a complete tool, as Michael from Milwaukee put it, or scary, Taisha from Toledo, or selfish, DeAndre from Milwaukee, just looking to enrich himself.
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Perhaps Eric, a real estate appraiser from Pittsburgh, put it most poignantly, extremely radical, scary, I just shudder that Trump has given him carte blanche. It's really these are the big things. Musk and Doge are treated with skepticism. They like Trump because he looks strong when Biden was weak. So it's not affecting Trump.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
That's what drives, like, sure, they could do it, but why? Or let me give you a good example. It's not everybody because Look, Apple shareholders voted, so did Costco and John Deere, to keep DEI initiatives in the company. They can do that, right? Instead- Private company. Private company, except now Trump is threatening them, and Tim Cook has to say, we've got to follow the law.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
They just don't like Musk, you know, and eventually it will affect Trump and that's when he'll act. But swing voters do not like this fella, no matter how you slice it. Anyway, we'll see. You're right. That's a great prediction. Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week, Scott spoke with David Bernad, the Emmy-winning executive producer behind HBO's White Lotus.
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They discussed the making of the hit series, The Shifting Landscape in Hollywood, and wait for it, Scott's surprise cameo in the next episode of White Lotus.
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All right. I'm so excited. I'm going to watch White Lotus.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I am going to download it. I'm going to Australia on Saturday, just so you know. Really? Yeah, I am. I'm going to listen to White Lotus so I can hear your voice.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Yeah, I know. It's true. Moving the books. Okay, let's listen to Scott. Let's listen to this interview.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Let me just say, I came to your apartment. I go into Scott's apartment. I walk in and there is Lucius Malfoy sitting there and a guy from the asshole from the Patriot. I was like, oh my God, hello. And he was lovely. And you and he were running lines, whatever. He was in the kitchen. You were in the studio. And I was like, hello, Lucius Malfoy. What are the? What the fuck are you doing here?
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He's a handsome man. Very handsome man. Handsome man, yeah. So this is great. This is great. I'm excited to hear you. I'm excited to hear you.
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They love Pivot, the whole White House team.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
even though shareholders who are supposed to be the best friends of these fuckers want something else. It's just amazing. It's amazing.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He was lovely. He was lovely.
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Oh, my God. There's a great article about her in New York Times today. I love Parker Posey so much. I'm so thrilled she's getting the recognition.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
You were a little bit shook up, but you loved it. Let me just say, he still is handsome and has a great head of hair. Scott, I'm excited to hear you. I'm going to listen to White Lotus because of you. While we're at it, let's put this question on threads. Which one of us would survive an entire season at the White Lotus and who would get killed off, Scott or Kara?
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It's going to be 90-10. It's going to be you auto-asphyxiating. That's really where it's happening. It's going to be you doing the David Carradine out in Thailand. Anyway, just weigh in if you could think of something. By the way, we're killing it on YouTube. We're growing like crazy, and I'm very excited. We're all over the place. So visit us at pivotpodcastofficialtoanswer.com.
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Scott, before we go, this just came over the wires. Katy Perry, Gayle King, and Lauren Sanchez are going to space on the next launch from Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos' rocket company. It's not really a mission. They're calling it a mission. But they're going to join three other women as the crew set to launch in the spring. I thought I'd give you a chance.
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It's the 11th crude flight of the New Shepard rocket.
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Oh, I knew you would do this. That's okay. I allowed it. I allow it. I allow it. Anyway, good luck.
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Godspeed, ladies. That's why they come here.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Commuting by e-bike isn't just great for your health, it's a game changer for your wallet and your time. Here's my tip. Head over to upway.co to find e-bikes from top-tier brands like Specialized, Cannadeal, and Aventon at up to 60% off retail. Whether you're into MTBs or speedy city bikes, they've got you covered.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
He might announce a bunch of tariffs until he like- Except he's got permission from shareholders to do it, right? The shareholders have spoken of what they want.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
They want the EI, so does Costco. Either you listen to shareholders or you're not trying to protect them. They've decided knowing full well what the price is, what they want. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But speaking of which, we've got a lot to get to today. The one person we're going to talk about initially is exactly this person.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
We're going to talk though about Nvidia's earnings, which were blockbuster, Tesla's struggles. No one wants to buy their shitty cars. They're not shitty cars. They're shitty because of their owner, their creator. In fact, not even their creator.
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Zero to 1939 in three seconds.
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Himmler. Oh, nice, Himmler. Often a forgotten Nazi, but very critical.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
No, he did a lot. He was quite horrible. Anyway, and Trump's gold card, which is ridiculous. But let's start with Jeff Bezos. Speaking of tiny goals. The Washington Post opinion entered David Shipley. By the way, my wife used to work for him. She quit and is thrilled that she did now that this came out. Has stepped down after Jeff Bezos announced a significant shift. to the opinion page.
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Bezos said the Post will now publish daily opinion stories on two editorial pillars, pretty much, and you have to be for them, personal liberties and free markets. You can't be against those. What does that mean? I will tell you, yes. Personal liberties, I'll do what I fucking want. Free markets, I'll do what I fucking want. There you go. Okay. I get what they're trying.
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They're trying to be the Wall Street Journal. It's that the Wall Street Journal has intelligent people working for it. And the Washington Post has Megan McArdle. The opinion section will cover other subjects as well. Not really, but will not publish viewpoints opposing those pillars. What's the point of having them?
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Meaning if you're against, if you're for social justice or some regulation, you can't write a piece. Right. You can't oppose free markets, even if you do. Like, if you have a very good argument about why we need guardrails on Amazon's shitty behavior, and I don't know. Whatever, you can't oppose Jeff Bezos.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Plus, you can get $150 off your first e-bike purchase of $1,000 or more with the code PIVOT150. You can thank me later. I love e-bikes.
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He said he believes the viewpoints in the new categories are underserved in the current market of ideas and news opinion. No, they're not, Jeff. They're done by the Wall Street Journal, which does them. Don't always agree, but pretty fucking good. Sounds like not original idea.
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The head of the opinion section, David Shipley, who already took a fall, he just fell down when he was doing the Kamala Harris thing, has decided he can't do this. I can't believe he didn't go the first time. But here it is. And of course, Jeff Bezos, in an interview with Matthias Dockner in 2018, said he would never do things like this. And this is exactly what he's doing.
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He said he'd be embarrassed and he would feel terrible when he was 80 years old. So here we are. He can do what he wants with this fucking newspaper, but it's a piece of shit now.
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He says the internet has viewpoints opposing those pillars.
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I kind of get it, but it's so like kindergarten version of opinion sections. It's like, oh, we need more diverse voices. Okay, get them, publish them, do them. Have everybody argue. If you You have to have viewpoints opposing personal liberties and free markets if you really want to have an opinion section. But he doesn't really want to have it. He wants a billionaire propaganda arm.
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That's I think he's this is what Penny that I think is dropped in his in his noggin. is that I can use this as a cudgel, right? If Musk can use Twitter X as a cudgel, I can use this as a cudgel. So I can do this via. Now, interestingly enough, the Wall Street Journal has been very critical of Trump, right?
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They've been very critical about the tariffs, about the behaviors, about the nonsense, and actually making some great arguments. And they've featured those. I'll be interested to see what Bezos—well, I'm not interested at all, but, you know, we'll see what he does here. But it seems like he'll try to get someone—I don't know.
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There's a lot of people who think this—who go on and on about say and do what you want, and then when push comes to shove, you don't get to say and do what you want. You get to say and do what your billionaire owner wants.
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Significance, relevance.
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They don't anymore, actually.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
Right. Are they going to get MAGA readers? They're not. They're not. MAGA readers have really good stuff to read. You want to read Ben Shapiro? You want to listen to Megyn Kelly scream at you for whatever fucking reason she likes to scream all day?
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
You have plenty of choice in that area. So they're not going to, you know, they're like, the sensible center is horrified by Donald Trump. So kissing up to him seems like the stupidest move ever.
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I don't want to hear about your erections. Can you move along, please? Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And we're going to debate the shit out of it.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
I'm having lunch today with one The New York Magazine just grabbed.
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They are picking and choosing. I've talked to The Times people who do this hiring. I've talked to the journal people. And they're calling me to ask me who's good, what do I think of this person, this and that. And they're not going to grab everybody, by the way, even if they're really good. But everyone's leaving.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
And, you know, today I'm having lunch with Ben Terrace, who's a wonderful political reporter. And he's joined New York Magazine. Fantastic. Like, fantastic. Like, did great work at The Post. And by the way, let me just weigh one in. They are doing, some of the reporting has been excellent. They did a great piece on Elon being a welfare queen, which you retweeted, $38 billion. They did another one.
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Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
They did like six or seven really great accountability stories in recent weeks. So it's just when is Bezos going to meddle there, which I think he will 100%. But you're right. It's an opportunity to pick an area to go into and really drill the fuck down. The way he's going is so stupid. I would deploy AI in a really smart way. They're doing it in a stupid way.
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Scott, how you doing? I finally finished my move.
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Elon Steps Back from DOGE, Wall Street Whiplash, and Meta’s Antitrust Trial Continues
How you doing, Scott? Guess what? Guess what?
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Oh, no, your mom's so good.
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We are Webby winners once again. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
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Well, you were about to enter this period with your young man that you have, so I hope you've done a good job. Anyway, my kids are great.
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Wine. Wine. Wine. Wine. I did do, I mean, you have to do the responsible things, the sex talk, the condom talk, everything else. But just treat women well was the one that I really pushed on him.
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Yes, you did. We're not going to do that again.
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I know you told this to me.
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Okay. The Pivot won the Webby Award and the People's Choice Award, both of them.
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Oh, my God. Boom, never gets old. You can't tell that joke.
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It gets old.
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All right. The invading Poland one is not allowed anymore.
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No, that joke's not allowed anymore.
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For your dick joke. Yeah, stop the dick. I think just because it's not funny. But anyway, let's keep going. It's not the only legal trouble Meta is dealing with. Meta and Apple are the first companies to be fined for violations of the EU's Digital Markets Act. Of course, this is going to happen, antitrust rules. Meta, about $230 million. Apple, $570 million. Both have been given 60 days to comply.
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We like that the people love us. For the Best Business Podcast—
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It's hardly any money. So any thoughts on that? Any thoughts on that?
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Yeah. The Europeans are extracting funds. I think they're probably not going to pay and they'll just keep, you know, objecting to it for a while.
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No, they have to comply with the rules. So they have to decide what to do. They can pull out of the things. They can close down services. They've done that in various countries. I think in Canada, Facebook pulled out of news. They don't put news on there.
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And the judges, yeah. The judges and the people. We've got a lot to get to today, but let's take a moment. And also, you won for Prof G. What did you win over there?
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There was a great piece about how sort of right-wing blather invades social media there because Facebook has pulled news organizations out of it because of something they didn't like. So they'll have to either comply with the rules or they're going to have to leave.
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All right. Okay.
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I know you have research in front of you, but go ahead.
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I shall find out. I do not know that. Any Europeans can write us, but I don't know. I think they're going to do other things to not comply because compliance is problematic across the globe from what I understand. They'll figure out some workaround of some sort, but I will find out and I will let you know next week. Is there any predictions for that meta case from your perspective?
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Most people think it's pretty weak, but Systrom's testimony was definitely strong, I think.
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All right, that's a good prediction. I don't think it's gonna be Facebook. He's very stubborn. But I suspect Google, which has a much tougher case. This case, they feel very confident over Meta about this particular case, just so you know, they're very confident. Although they sort of communicate on social media like they're desperate, which is interesting. So, next one.
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Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin has lost the retrial of a 2017 defamation lawsuit against The New York Times. Palin filed a lawsuit after The Times ran an editorial claiming she had engaged in a political incitement ahead of the 2011 shooting of Gabby Giffords, incorrectly drawing ties to an advertisement.
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The Times issued a correction in under 24 hours, but Palin's legal team argued the mistake was actual malice. The bar for actual malice is high, established in a 1964 case, very famous, New York Times v. Sullivan, which the Trump administration is trying to get overturned or changed.
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protects news outlets from liability when they publish false statements as long as they did not do so knowingly or willingly or with actual malice. Supreme Court Justice, again, Thomas and Gorsuch have called for the court to revisit the malice standard for well-known people. If you're not a well-known person, you can sue for defamation much easier. Obviously, Palin is super well-known.
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So she came back the second time. It was like in two hours. The Times had great lawyers, FYI. And also the person who made the mistakes, James Bennett, who has since left the Times, apologized to Palin on the stand this time and actually cried. I know him pretty well. I thought it was quite dignified for him to do so, like to apologize like that. I think it probably really helped the case.
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I don't think he's ever going to win, but I think this is over. This is the last stop for her. I don't know if she can keep appealing, but. Any thoughts?
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I usually do jokes, but go ahead.
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But people were worried about this case and a lot of others, including why George Stephanopoulos, they settled for that thing that he did to Nancy Mace. I think there were probably some sort of texts that he was warned several times in that case or something. So there was something there for the reason Disney caved. There must have been something.
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They just do one thing.
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But I talked to people and they were worried that it would go to the Supreme Court. Everyone's worried about a Times v. Sullivan case getting to the Supreme Court, which it eventually will, because the right is very much intent on cutting back.
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You know, they're trying to get rid of SLAPP laws, which protects journalists from being, you know, nuisance lawsuits in many states, not every state, which is why they try to sue in places like Texas and other places. But they're on the march trying to overturn these things, just like Trump tried to overturn the Civil Rights Act this week. Anyway, it was good for The New York Times.
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It was the right decision. You're right. And lastly, late Zappos co-founder Tony Hsieh did have concrete plans for his $1.2 billion fortune when he died. The year recently found will, according to The Wall Street Journal. This was interesting. I know Tony very well. It was a sad end to a lovely person who was quite troubled.
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The document notes that if any family member challenges wishes, all will receive nothing, marks $3 million for Shea's alma mater, Harvard, and allocates a whole bunch of money to undisclosed recipients he wanted to surprise. He left a lot of post-it notes of things, and so he was sort of, he had a real problem, really essentially a drug problem at the end of his life.
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They thought he had died without instructions, and he really, the last part of his life during COVID was really disturbing, I think. So, you know, it's a coda. I'm glad he gave money to Harvard and other places, but it just reminded me of a very sad story of technology.
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Will this make us more obnoxious or less obnoxious? Probably more, right?
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I would agree. That's a great idea. It is interesting. I mean, I spent a lot of time with Tony and interviewed him many times. He was a gentle soul. We would have a running joke because he was a hugger. He'd always be like, come in. He did this happiness tour, which sort of was a tell. He was so sad he needed to have a happiness tour. But he's always like, you know, I'm going to hug you.
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And I said, I'll break your arms if you do. I did a video, which I would send you, but you wouldn't watch, of my tour of their Zappos office. It was a very cult-like kind of, you know how Japanese companies, they do calisthenics together and that kind of stuff. He was trying to have this sort of happiness thing, and he had a guy who was head of happiness there and would take you on the tour.
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And, you know, they'd have all this, like, a lot of candy happening, a lot of sugar, a lot of, like, creative stuff in the office with the people, and everyone had their own little teams. It was... I called it forced fun. I was like, I don't want to have any forced fun with people at work. But he tried to create these ethos and he did the same thing in Vegas, trying to revive downtown Vegas.
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Yeah, I got a lot of congratulations and I'm like, it's the Webby. It's the Webby. We're very happy. We have to think of a five-word acceptance speech for that, by the way.
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A lot of it was very much about him and he had this holacracy thing. We wrote about it a bunch at Recode. He had a whole theory of management. I remember the last time I saw him, he came to code every year and he's a very good poker player. He had a certain drink he drank a lot of. It's not absinthe, but it was like that. He loved Fernet, that was it.
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And he was so sad, you could tell, and was sort of, you know, forced jocularity, but a very gentle soul.
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They can't fix it if you don't do that. You need to have like everything.
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Scott Galloway is my husband.
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You're gonna have no gums and I'm gonna laugh at your dentures someday. You need to do those things. I'm sending you a Waterpik. You need a Waterpik at least.
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I tried that. Waterpiks are great. I do a Waterpik twice a day. I love it. It's great. My gums are excellent. Anyway, let's go on a quick break when we come back. Enough with the Waterpik.
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Oh, okay, okay. True story. All right, when we come, it's not a weapon. When we come back, Elon heads back to Tesla and Scott makes a great prediction. Support for this show comes from Delete.me. There's a whole online industry of data brokers. Things that are really best kept private, like your name, contact info, photos, and addresses, could all be compiled by data brokers and sold online.
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I don't like that at all. Do you have any idea? Think of one. Think of one. You're going to go get it. Maybe someone's going to go get it.
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It is. Oh, I love it. Remember I got the Lifetime Achievement?
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It was lovely. I had a lovely time there. I had met lots of lovely celebrities that I liked.
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Scott, we're back. Elon says he's, shocker of shocker, Elon says he's scaling back this time at Doge, starting in May, claiming his work is mostly done, which means he got nothing done. He will instead be allocating more of his time to Tesla. The announcement came in the wake of Tesla's brutal earnings report, with net income falling 71% during the first quarter of 2020.
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2025, in a letter to shareholders, the company referenced changing political sentiment that could have meaningful impact on demand for our products in the near term, you think? Tesla's shares were up over 5% following his announcement that he's returning to the company, which is shocking because I think him not returning to the company is probably better for it.
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And as of this recording, it's still up. We've, of course, been calling this for weeks. Scott, let's listen to what you said back in February.
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Let me ask you a pressing question. If you could win any award, right? You and I are not award people. We really aren't. But what would it be? What award would you want to have?
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Boom, goes Scott Galloway. This is why we want a Webby. This is why. This is why. So it all came true. Obviously, besides the shares being up, though, if you look, take apart the report, they would have been drastically non-profitable had it not been for selling emissions, things that Trump is trying to get rid of, and investments, I think, in Bitcoin or something like that.
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It earned this 595 million. And again, these regulatory credits to other automakers, which are going to be rolled back, was critical to that. It wasn't because of cars. Do you think the companies, let's go for more, has the company been permanently damaged? And again, I would underscore, it's not just the political stuff. They haven't made a great product. They made the Cybertruck, which is a dud.
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And they haven't rolled out great products at other carmakers because all other carmakers are going up in EVs and hybrids. So more than 47% of Americans have a negative view of the company, according to a new CNBC survey, and more than 52% have a negative view of Musk. So how did they get out of the brand hole, also financially?
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He's touting robo-taxis, which he says will move the financial needle in a significant way, but this is not true. He's got competitors. With Waymo, he's predicting 1 million units of the Optimus robots in less than five years. I think Optimus robots is the cyber truck of the next thing that he's doing.
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So what do you see in the next couple of, let's have some predictions from Scott Galloway on this topic.
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I'm not talking about the stock, because I think you were right about, I'm talking about, can they pull out of this hole, one? Can they pull out? I think they can't, but I'd love to know what you think.
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Obviously.
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These emissions, these regulatory.
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What would be the award? A real life award. A real one?
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Explain for the kids what DeLorean is, just so you know.
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Oh, they put the thing on you.
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Yeah, no, not anymore. No.
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Well, because they think, you know, it's a meme stock like it's never. Here's the problem. He has been warned by his own employees about the Cybertruck. He was warned about, you know, different things where they warn.
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The other thing is, as we talked about last week, rolling rolling odometers faster, all stuff like that, saying we're going to like I think this week he said he was he keeps going on and on about odometers.
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self-driving that is not he's nowhere near he's been bragging as you noted you put the list of things he's told untruths about um or just well he's dreaming i'll say his dreams of what's going to happen and so if he's got to deliver and not promise and the same thing with doge two trillion or one two two trillion not one trillion two trillion i'm going to save and then they they can they can say 160 billion and even that david fahrenhold is taken apart
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He probably has cost the government more through this Doge thing than he has created. What he's done is he's destroyed things the right wing wants destroyed, like USAID or the regulators that are against him. He's not done any significant changes to the way the government works, which, you know, and again, as we both pointed out, Maybe the government works a lot better than you think.
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Did you win any awards in your life?
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There's fewer government officials. Evan Spiegel was pointing this out. There's fewer government workers than there were 20 years ago. And there's just more regulations, that's for sure. But he's just hasn't, this is like, he has now become an over-promiser, an under-deliverer. And that's what he's doing here with these ridiculous talking about the robo-taxi.
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Let me just, Uber has $12 billion in revenue. That's it. That's far from a trillion dollar business. The second one, Optimus robots. Are you going to buy an Optimus robot, Scott? I don't know. Are you like a million units?
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No, not really.
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Same thing with the self-driving.
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No. I went to a snotty private school, but go ahead.
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I got to tell you, he did the Cybertruck, guys. He did the Cybertruck. Talk about a disastrous car and the cost when he could have been doing smaller cars the way they were doing them in Japan, adorable ones. I bet they would have done a great job at those, and all the different... There's ones in Japan, there's ones in China.
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Instead, he had to do his ridiculous, I have a small penis, Cybertruck, and this is where we are. We'll see what he does. We'll see. Interesting to see if...
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One last thing, Steve Bannon, who was at this conference I was at yesterday, was noting, and I can't believe I agree with Steve Bannon on many things, but he said, we need an absolute detailed list of the fraud he found, a detailed and checked independently list of the fraud he found, and a detailed list of any data that he has touched so that we know if he took it anywhere.
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Oh, wait, is there a Steve Martin Award and Most Comical?
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Like these two things, like the data they've been collecting and coalescing around in a What have these people done with the data? Steve Bannon is correct about this because it's going to show that very little was saved and we have to have an independent assessment, which we're not going to have until the end of the Trump administration. But I would agree with that.
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We're not going to get that, but we'll see. We don't know what's going to happen to the stock because people have a thing with this guy, but he's definitely on a downward plunge, I think.
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And get rid of certain things, as I noted. Yeah.
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Although I don't even think they did a very good job. Like, who knows what's there? I'm certain there's fraud all over the place, Medicaid and everything else. Looks like now do the Pentagon. And a lot of this spending, it's stuff we can't touch. And that's the real problem, whether it's Medicare, whether it's defense spending. There's certain stuff that can't be touched, Social Security.
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And it's a bigger problem of... Listen, at the heart, we shouldn't have these enormous deficits. We overspend. We have too many regulations. And that's a really good thing to attack. But this has just been a ridiculous jazz hands.
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It's a chainsaw.
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Steve Martin, that's perfect, actually.
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Oh, I see that. I see that. Most comical. That's so funny. You weren't like best, you know, handsome.
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All of the fucking above. Yeah, which they're not going to do. They talked about it this week, Trump people, and then they just have been indicating no taxes on rich people.
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I have won. I won the Bunn Award in my freshman year of college.
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Yeah, I agree. I think you need to run for president, as Ed said. Apparently, Ed was telling you you should run for president. That's a very good, you should be more involved in politics, Scott. I think you should. Anyway, by the way, Tesla we think is in the crapper.
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Just attribute it.
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He's got to. It's the only move, and he would do it. That's the two things. Knowing him, I don't know him well anymore, but knowing him as I had known him, and it's the move. It's a jazz hands move of all time. It'll be loud, noisy. It'll be what a genius. Here's the last thing I'm going to say about this.
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Yeah, it was. I won as a freshman. Seniors got it. And it upset the entire ecosystem. And the seniors hated me for winning it.
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All you people that were like slathering like over Elon when he was visiting Congress and we all love Doge. You don't all love Doge. You just... You are—the Republicans should be embarrassed for all the kissassery they did to this guy and what he was doing, and abrogating their responsibilities as legislators.
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Just handing it over to this guy and saying, you fix it, was the most irresponsible thing. And someday, there is going to be a reckoning at some point, and you are not going to be looked—you have not bathed yourself in any kind of glory. You've bathed yourself in embarrassment and suck-upery. So that, to me, is really the lesson here. We'll see where it goes.
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But, you know, I see why Donald Trump did it. The rest of you are grotesque. So is Donald Trump. But anyway, I'll note alphabet earnings are coming after we record, so we don't know what's going to happen or anything they might say about the case, both cases they've lost. But we'll discuss next week because they're really at a crossroads. Google certainly is.
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Thank you.
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I won a Loeb Award once.
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Based on latest competitive data, the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees, and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's all the journalism awards.
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No, I'm just, I didn't know.
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Scott, we're back. It's another whiplash week on Wall Street. President Trump's attacks on the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, calling him a major loser and criticizing his policies rattled the market earlier this week, triggering a major sell-off of stocks and bonds. Trump later said he had no intention of firing Powell. By the way, he can't.
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It's very hard to do so, so it doesn't matter what he thinks. He also indicated some easing of tariff tension with China. But as of Thursday morning, China is calling any reports of tariff talks, quote, baseless rumors, directly aimed at Trump there, sending the Dow down briefly, although the S&P 500 has been staying steady. Once again, the markets seem to have spooked Trump, as they should.
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No, I haven't won much. I would like to win the MacArthur Genius Award.
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He met with CEOs of Target, Walmart, and Home Depot on Monday. It was interesting Amazon wasn't there, but who reportedly warned about tariffs leading to price surges and empty shelves within weeks. A dozen states also sued to block Trump's tariff, arguing he doesn't have the authority to impose them. Even though he says he's not firing Powell, he's been undermining him.
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He's going to blame him for all this with the attacks. He continues to act like he has some sort of control over this. Let's talk about that for a minute. Well, actually, let me go through everything. And with China, Trump said this week that tariffs on Chinese goods will come down substantially, but won't be zero and that the U.S. they weren't before. And the U.S.
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That's the one I want. You can't be thirsty for it to win it, though. You have to pretend you're very.
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and China are actively talking, which I said China denies. One White House senior official told The Wall Street Journal that China tariffs would likely get reduced any roughly between 50 and 65 percent. Another Trump blink seems imminent. Again, Scott Bessett and Elon Musk got in a fight. I think it's sort of in our rearview mirror. Scott Bessett won with the IRS pick.
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This kind of chaos is just insane, it seems. Like he's just shooting himself in the foot over and over again and then pretending, declaring victory when he goes back on the stupid thing he did. Let's hear what you think about this, Scott Galloway.
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Travels down, everything's down.
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Well, they sell some of it. They do have a division that sells cars.
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I like that you turned on Blackmun the way I had put to a hand.
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Also, may I note, they have a lot of Teslas that nobody wants to rent. They did this whole, remember, they have tons of Teslas they can't move.
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Agreed, but I'm just saying they did that whack deal. Every time they try to give me one, I'm like, no, I shall not. And apparently nobody wants to rent a Tesla.
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I would run into the burning house to save you.
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I would. I would. I'm a burning house runner into. That's a good award.
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And then the deals, they're coming to me for deals. They're trying to kiss my ass, that whole thing.
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What does he do? OK, you look, first of all, Besson's trying to affect him, obviously, and he seems to have gained a bit of an upper hand against the two clown, the clown show of. Howard, whatever his name is, and Elon. And there was an altercation, a very loud altercation between Besant and Musk over an IRS head, which the Treasury Secretary should pick, FYI, not Elon Musk.
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He was trying to pick a sycophant to take over the IRS, where our money comes from. And what would you do if you were Besant right now? Like, besides leave, like, immediately, what would you do?
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I know, the crypto stuff.
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You're sitting in the Oval Office, he has you in, you for some reason go, and he's listening to you. What would you say to Trump to do right now?
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It's a nice metaphor.
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I don't know. I think the Chinese and the Europeans are now like, huh, what would a life without these obnoxious Americans be like? Like, hey, I think a divorce sounds great. Like, I'm sure that's what they're thinking. Do you know what I mean?
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Wait a minute. Just a minute here.
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Oh, what an idiot. What a fucking idiot. I mean, the thing is, if he did a couple of things, all his stupid followers would would like clap, clap like this.
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But I don't know if he's... He wants the tenure. He's been listening to Wall Street. Wall Street is the one that speaks with the truth.
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Yeah, let Nick should go. What a thirsty...
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Right. Yeah. Yeah. But they're certainly not going to tax the rich.
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Without dying.
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All he needs is affirmation. It's so sad. It's such a sad, sad state at this age in his life that this is all he needs. But here we are. Anyway, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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Are you good in a jam? I did Outward Bound. I was pretty good in a jam a lot.
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Okay, Scott, let's hear our predictions. You've kind of let loose a few during the show here.
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I'm going to pick, we'll each pick one. I say YouTube. Well, maybe the advertising.
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We would like YouTube, but it's probably the ad business.
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We should do a survival thing. That would be interesting.
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And then they're an AI company or an AI company that makes robots.
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Yeah, it makes sense. It's also like him. It's very like him. He's hiding.
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I've done that three or four times. I always establish dominance and that's how I work.
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I wonder if he'll take it private then. There's not a lot of revenue in any of these things, right?
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There's not a lot of revenue. Well, you know, I don't think the Starlink part, I mean, SpaceX is part of it. They have, they don't, my guess, they don't make that much money. They probably, and they've been hurt themselves, but I think they're very expensive to run that thing. And I'd love to actually see the numbers from that. If someone wants to send them to me, I'd love to see them.
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I don't think they're wildly profitable by any stretch of the imagination, but...
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Yeah. I was surprised. I did Outward Bound and a bunch of other things like that. I literally was like, I shall be running this now. We shall do what I say.
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I don't. I don't. I predict I'm going to go to White House correspondent dinner parties this weekend.
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Why not?
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A friend of mine asked you?
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Oh, yeah. You should have. Oh, I know who it is. You should have come.
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Yeah, there's a bunch. Every single media company, like Axios is having something, Substack.
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You've been, right? The parties are fun. I hate to say it. I'd love to go. I don't go to the event itself ever, but there's like NBC's having a party after the French Embassy.
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No, it's fun. It's fun. I love that French embassy. It's so ridiculous. It's so like end times kind of partying kind of stuff.
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You'd be a good team member. You'd be a good team member.
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Let me think. Oh, UTA has a really cool party. It's really fun.
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No, they're fun. They're fun. They're fun parties. They are indeed fun parties. And my friend Tammy Hadid has the famous White House Correspondents in her brunch.
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She's great.
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She has a famous brunch that's really fun. That's really fun, actually.
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She's everywhere. She's everywhere.
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Yeah. Anyway.
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Tammy Hadid is the queen of White House correspondent's weekend. She is.
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She's also lovely. May I say she brings the best toys for my children.
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She's from Pittsburgh. She was in Pittsburgh this weekend. She's the best. We love that Tammy Haddad. Anyway, so I wish you were here. We'd have a good time.
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Congratulations on the Webby again. We're very excited. Thank you, Webby Awards.
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I love to sleep. I'm such a good sleeper.
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I can sleep anywhere. It's so true. Anyway. Tammy, that's great. She's very tall and she's got this great shock of white hair. She's fantastic. She's a fantastic lady. Anyway, Tammy, good luck this weekend. I will see you at the party. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.
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Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week on Prof G Markets, Scott, who's on a tear, spoke with Ryan Peterson, the founder and CEO of Flexport, who replaced someone that he brought in from Amazon. It's a leader in global supply chain management about the impact of tariffs. What a great person to tap.
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And team. Yes. All the team.
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Let's listen.
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Zoe, Taylor, Lara. Everybody. And name. Drew is amazing for us.
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That's a great idea to do an interview there, Scott. That's great.
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You like dull investments. That's where you make your big bucks, isn't it? Dull-ish.
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I love that, Scott. So don't invest in Scott Galloway because he's dead sexy.
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Okay, that's the show.
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Anyway, we thank, do we thank Vox? Yeah, Vax. Sure, sure. Yay.
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Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.
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That's not fair. They don't wear suits. They're not suit people. They're not suit people. They're actually lovely to work with.
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They have to be.
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Our big, has he ever yelled at us? No, he never does.
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Yeah, he is.
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Enough about us. Thank you, Webby Awards. It's well-deserved by us, let's just say. Okay. All right. We've got a lot to get to today, including there's so much going on. Elon announcing he's stepping back from Doge following Tesla's terrible earnings report just as we predicted. Trump sends the markets on yet another wild ride because he's so ridiculous.
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But first, Instagram co-founder Kevin Systrom testified this week that the app was underfunded after Meta bought it, boosting the FTC's argument the company was illegally anti-competitive. Systrom said Zuckerberg was not investing in the Instagram app because he saw it as a threat to Facebook, which he felt was better. He was incorrect, but that's what he felt.
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I've interviewed Systrom, and let me... Let's listen to this clip, because they used it in the trial to try to impugn Kevin Systrom.
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Support for this show comes from ServiceNow, who are enabling people to do more fulfilling work, the work they actually want to do. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work. But now with AI Agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of the business, IT, HR, customer service, and more.
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Did you actually snap your fingers?
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Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. It's like, which would have happened without the other kind of thing?
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So they were using this to say that he was happy there. And now let's listen then to a clip from 2023 at South by Southwest where I interviewed Kevin.
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That's the attitude that Kevin had for a long time. He was very frustrated internally. Mark was petty with him, I think, and jealous. I think that's no question. It's an interesting trial.
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It was interesting that they had Kevin there, and not interesting that Evan Spiegel, who turned down, who I interviewed yesterday, by the way, in Washington, at Snapchat, who had turned down, and then Facebook proceeded to blast them by taking all their ideas. Any thoughts on this? I mean, I think people publicly try to put on a good face, right? You've been in these situations, Scott.
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And that means your people can focus on the work they want to do. That's putting AI Agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started at servicenow.com slash AI dash agents. You're going to have no gums, and I'm going to laugh at your dentures someday. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
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I suppose. I would push back because I think they've always done a lot of moderation. When they have a problem, they fix it. They don't bellyache about it. They had a whole problem with AI.
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Yeah. I'm just saying they fix things quickly and they do moderate. They moderate much heavier. What I'm saying is the attitude isn't, ugh, what are you talking about? It's like, oh, we should fix that. Like, I think I would agree. I think it's a it's a locational thing and it's more for your friends and therefore it opens it up more. But, you know, I have kids on it.
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I would rather have them on Snapchat than Facebook because I think they got inundated.
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It was, right.
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But in this information, I don't think that's why they did it. I think it was because they thought privacy was critical. That's not why they did it. I was there.
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It is, but I don't agree with Jonathan. I think Facebook has done less and been more resistant to dealing with things, and they're the big dog.
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I think Snapchat is, I'd rather have my kids, and I get the locational feature, and if kids open it up, there are things you can do to it to stop that. It's much more open to fixing. And it certainly has had issues around drug dealers and things like that. Every one of these platforms has.
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I'm just saying platforms who have had problems like Reddit and Snapchat have always been willing to change in ways and admit in ways Facebook never has. And ultimately, I think Facebook doesn't really matter because they're the biggest and they have the most impact on everybody.
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Especially through Instagram. And so they should be the most responsible.
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I think Louie doesn't use it as much, but he definitely, that was the only one he used. And there was one incident where I did catch him with a girl on Snap, but using the location features. I told you that, didn't I? He went out. He left the house, and I found him on Snap because he's so dumb with his technology. I said, I know exactly where I'm coming to get you. Oh, come on.
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Actually, his brother turned him in. His brother's the one that turned him in to me.
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Yeah. Well, he's like, Louie's not here. And then we like, let's use the snap feature. It's a long story, but he wrote me the most legendary text of all time, which is why I love him so much. I wrote him and I said, I can't, he took an Uber. He used my Uber. to get to do some sort of .
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And that's what he wrote.
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I'm going to read it at his wedding. I love that line, sometime we're gonna be like that, Chief.
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Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, we are live from New York for the Liberty's home opener with an extra special guest, Brianna Stewart. We talk about the Liberty's newest additions, the best lessons Stewie ever got from Sue, and what it was like to be at the Met Gala this year. And of course, we couldn't let her go without asking her about that 2024 foul call.
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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, and I'm Tom Cruise. Oh, no, Tara Swisher.
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So when he was asked about returning to Tesla and his commitment to the company, Baby Huey attempted his usual brand of awkward comedy. Check it out.
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You know, I think one of the things that I don't believe is he will stop his financial involvement in politics. Back in March of 2024, he said he wouldn't be donating to either candidate in the presidential election. I called that horseshit then very clearly that he was obviously going to back President Trump because it was an existential crisis for him to be for a Harris presidency.
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And that's exactly what he did. And he lied about it. He just lied about it. His posts on X have become less political in recent months. A Washington Post analysis found under 20% of his posts are now about Doge or politics, while more than half are about tech and his businesses. This interview was such a disaster, the reporter was trying her best to try to get an answer out of him.
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And then in a separate interview on CNBC, he should just shut up. He also said robo-taxis would be driving around Austin in June and LA and San Francisco after that. I would not get... in a robotaxi because they haven't had any, and even one of the people who was doing this said they were years behind Waymo. And I was reticent.
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I am. I got the 10 o'clock show. I'm going to the late show. It's three hours fucking long. Do you know that? Two hours and 49 minutes.
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I now go in Waymos quite confidently, but I would never get in one of these. And before we move on, I just want to note that in that CNBC interview, Elon was asked about his plans to combine Tesla and XAI, a merger I predicted a few weeks ago. He didn't rule it out completely. Let's listen to what he said.
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Well, that means yes, obviously.
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I know. Could be a lot of Tom Cruise.
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I didn't think they wouldn't. I'm just telling you as someone who's ridden in the earliest ones till now, they simply aren't safe enough. They are not safe enough.
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I'm not a fan of him as a person, the Scientology part, but I love all his movies.
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Yeah, I just don't think, listen, he was saying robo-taxis are coming by this date, and that was eight years ago, and it was a date. Waymo has written circles around him in this issue, and so have others, by the way. There's some Amazon efforts, there's Aurora. Everybody has moved forward here, and for him to pretend that they're not extraordinary, it's the same thing with AI.
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Like, look, he was extraordinarily late with Kroc, Good catch up, sort of, I guess, although the numbers are pretty low compared to other things. But he just declares things. It drives me fucking nuts. And it may be biased. I just wouldn't. I don't think he should. I think he should go away for a while and keep quiet. I get what you're saying. But I think he became a nuisance at the White House.
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Well, he's out.
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No, I get that. I'm saying I think he exhausted people with his never shutting up and his ridiculous jokes and his bullying.
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This is what he should do. Let me leave on a positive note here. He should work on his fucking cars and not make shitty cars. And the reason why Tesla is not doing well is because there's an old car that it's a very good car, but it's something that's not a fresh car. And the Cybertruck is a, you know, sorry, that was his midlife crisis, I guess. Not a good car. He should make good products.
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and roll them out. That's what he should do. And that's what he was good at. And now he's bad at government. He's bad at a lot of things. He's bad at media. He should go back and do the things he does best, which is be very bold about cutting edge products and then improve Starlink, improve the Tesla product. There's no way he couldn't come back.
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No, I don't think it's a very good group of people from all that I've read. It's not a purity test. Well, neither is the Catholic Church.
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Tesla couldn't come back from this if they made good cars. But they aren't. And so he could blame all the protests. He can blame anyone else. But the responsibility lies with him. Speaking about responsibility, we're learning more about former President Joe Biden's prostate cancer diagnosis.
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Biden did not receive his diagnosis until last week, and his last known PSA screening, that's what they used to do these, was in 2014, according to a spokesman. That is an astonishing thing. I cannot believe that. You had noted this, and I was shocked again when I saw that.
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That information comes amid ongoing speculation about a possible cover-up, including from President Trump, who claims somebody is not telling the facts. He would know about that. Medical experts point to guidelines that advise against PSA screenings for men over the age of 70, I guess. He's the president, though.
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Though some people are raising questions about whether Biden as president should have still been screened, such as you did. Scott, you asked this question earlier this week. Where do you think we stand now? And by the way, you also spoke with CNN's Jake Tapper on Prof G this week.
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He really sells these movies, I have to say. He's out there. He's in theaters. He does the work. He is a very hardworking, massive celebrity.
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Jake is the co-author of the new book, Original Sin, President Biden's Decline, its cover-up, and his disastrous choice to run again. Let's listen to the clip where he talks about what it means for Democrats.
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So what do you think about the screening? And then tell me a little bit about your thoughts here.
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As president.
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Plus he stopped him, and then he got him elected, right?
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She needed more time.
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I thought she did a lot better. The first 60 days, I thought, were terrific, I thought, for her.
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It continues. We were pretty outspoken, you first, and then you convinced me of his need to step down at the time. And we got so much endless shit. You remember how much endless shit we got. I have blocked so many people on all the social networks because they just can't. They do have a derangement syndrome. I was like, you can't say to yourself what a fuck up this was because it's not the point.
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I think we should move on, by the way. I think we've got to move on quickly and there's lots of ways to do that. We made a mistake. We needed to do this. We're going to do things differently. We're so sorry. Please trust us again. And here's how you can trust us by doing, as you said, a robust primary, correct? Here's some answers from us. Here's what we're going to do.
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Yeah, hard worker. Hard worker. That's what I appreciate. And I like the movies. I'm sorry. I love all the movies he's in. There's not a movie. I was just thinking of re-watching Taps. Do you remember Taps? That was really, even though he got famous in Risky Business, Taps, he played a crazy, over-the-top military school cadet. And Tim Hutton, remember, they took over the school in the name of the
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And also saying out loud, Joe Biden betrayed us. Right. Right. Just say it. Sorry, he's sick.
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He screwed up. OK, he screwed up and we went, OK, betrayed is not the right word. Right. OK. But that said, like, stop it, you people. Like you yelled at us when we said which which would have been a much better outcome, especially you, Scott. You were really out on that limb. And I'm not giving you credit, it's just you were right. And it's the same problem we had.
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We can't say anything because Trump. Yes, we can say things.
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Yeah, he is getting angry.
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Oh, my God.
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Okay, okay. Getting back to Tapper, the other thing is, I've just gotten several of these books on the presidential race and stuff like that. And I do have to say, there's a lot of news in a lot of these. They're all under embargo and stuff. But sometimes you feel like maybe you should have said it at the time. Like, you know, when...
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Reporters have to do, and here's where I do think the media is culpable. I think a lot more reporters knew about this, and several did some great pieces talking about this, but they got relentlessly pummeled when they did.
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But reporters got the pressure. And in that way, they really have to just push back and keep going. And they're not a they're not a creature of Trump if they the guy was the president and they should have done a good job covering him despite the fears of Trump. And that's that's just the way it's got to be. I'm sorry.
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There's no by all means necessary is not the way the Democrats could conduct themselves. Anyway. OK, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the bond market gets a little yippy again.
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Support for Pivot comes from Ferragamo. When it comes to Mother's Day, your mom might say your happiness is enough, but come on, there are plenty of ways to show her how much she means to you. One such way is gifting her a piece of happiness she can carry with her or even wear. This Mother's Day, explore Ferragamo's Mother's Day gift guide to find a meaningful piece she won't forget.
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And by the way, I have fantastic Ferragamo sneakers that I love that I just wear all the time. I think they're fun and I am such a not stylish person, but I love them.
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another thing you can buy is a ferragamo silk scarf makes a lovely gift it's a pop of color with a beautiful printed design so she can add to any outfit instantly feel that much more vibrant and elegant or you can gift her a straw visor with a ferragamo signature so she can feel stylish on the sunniest days or a draped bangle that elevates her evening attire with its flowing gold-plated brass and of course there's the now iconic hug bag
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Motherhood is sweet and profound, and you can celebrate that bond with Ferragamo's curated selection of heartfelt gifts. This Mother's Day, love speaks for itself. Shop now in the boutique or online at ferragamo.com slash Mother's Day gifts. This is mother approved ad. Scott, we're back. Republicans in the U.S.
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Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.
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Sean Penn, you're right. That's right. And it was all like, what did they do and this and that. But Tom Cruise was the crazy one who was all in. He was fantastic and born on the 4th of July. He was great in Tropic Thunder. Yeah.
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House of Representatives passed President Trump's big, beautiful tax bill on Thursday morning with a 215 to 214 vote. I mean, it was one person. The stock slid this week with the Dow dropping over 800 points on Wednesday as bond yields spiked following a weak auction of the 20-year Treasury bonds and concerns about the budget bill.
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I mean, this is just what you're talking about, selling out the poor to feed the rich. The 10-year and 30-year bond yields also jumped sharply, a very disturbing indicator, and 30-year rising above 5% to its highest level since October 2023. The sell-off isn't just a U.S. story. Bond yields are rising globally, too, with Japan and the U.K. seeking similar moves.
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The bond market got yippy back in April, as Trump put it, which led him to pause the tariffs. I'd like you to explain what's going on without a penis joke and as pithy as you can be for the people who don't understand it.
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Explain what the bond market's saying very quickly.
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That's what we're doing. And we're not creating the economic opportunity because we're paying interest rates. It's usury against ourselves, which is really astonishing. Anyway, we'll see what goes on. They're going to pass it. But that was a tight vote. You know, again, I have to insult all the congressional Republicans who pretend they're hawks. Fuck you for voting for this.
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Like, if you really cared, you would do something not like this. But you did it anyway. I don't know what deal you got or whatever promise, but it's all nonsense if you don't stick to your guns on this stuff. iPhone designer Johnny Ive and his design firm are taking over creative design at OpenAI. This is an interesting story, speaking of expansion, to develop consumer devices and other products.
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Ive's design firm and OpenAI CEO Sam Moulton have reportedly been working on a device that moves beyond screens, including headphones and other devices with cameras. We'll also work on future versions of ChatGPT audio features in its OpenAI's app. IVE also leads IO, a company founded to design and develop a new family of AI products.
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OpenAI will acquire IO in an all-equity deal valued at $6.5 billion. So here we are. We have Johnny Ive coming back, the obviously famous iPhone guy, aluminum. I just want to note, I spoke to Ive at Code in 2022. He was on a panel about Steve Jobs with Lorraine Powell Jobs and Tim Cook. It was the last Code session ever because Jobs was the first one.
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I asked him about intentionality and responsibility when designing tech products. Let's take a listen.
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Yeah, he's a very articulate person about design. He also insulted the current, there was Humane Pen, a couple of pens, he thought they sucked. But is it too early in the process here at OpenA? They're clearly, as you noted, going consumer if they're bringing in Johnny Ive. And I will note Ive and Altman are very close friends.
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And again, the picture they took together was really kind of odd and interesting. It looked like it was like an engagement photo in the New York Times. What do you think about this?
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We're going to do that next, but go ahead.
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That was a jobs move.
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about the consumer, because they're obviously leaning in. Johnny Ive is probably the greatest designer in consumer technology history, right? One of them. I mean, possibly the one. And so this is the idea of how do you make AI useful, right? And so a lot of it is very kludgy, how you use AI. And those pins were just ridiculous. We made fun of them.
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But there has to be some way, because I have to say, I've been noticing I mean, you use AI all the time. I'm really using it. I don't use Google Search anymore. I use ChatGPT. And they're better answers. They really are. And I'd like a little more information about the provenance of the information I'm getting sometimes. But I feel pretty good about it.
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It's getting better and better, that's for sure. But interestingly, my Apple things are getting useful in my... messages suddenly it said your Amazon package is at your doorstep and it never did that before. AI is definitely inserting itself trying to coordinate all my apps at this point in a way that's much more actually useful.
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But do you think that they're going full consumer here and they're hitting at phone makers, they're hitting at search, they're hitting at travel agencies, they're hitting at libraries. I mean, how do you look at this?
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You know what I was thinking? My iPhone suddenly feels older, too old. Like, something else has to come. And for the first time when I read this, even though Ive has sort of been through many cycles and he's sort of at the end of a very long and illustrious career, I think he's got one more in him. And like, someone could supplant Apple. Someone could. That's what I thought of when I heard this.
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Yeah. Anyway, I'm very excited and I'm going to be up very late, but I'm super excited to go. Anyway, one quick note before we move on. Some news breaking after our taping about the Trump administration's war with Harvard, you know, the university in Boston.
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Yes, I know. But I thought someone, of course, will. But now I'm like, oh, I can see it. I can see them making something I would buy. Anyway, we'll see.
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Yeah, they're beautiful.
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Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. I have one. It's gorgeous. And Tony is really great. The other one would be Yves Bihar. There's a couple.
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And then Susan Kerr, who designed all the original stuff for Apple, all the iconic stuff for Apple. Anyway, there's a couple of really well-known tech designers. And I was at the very top of that pile in any case. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Google introduces AI Mode.
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Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, also known as Ice Barbie, and that's a compliment, ordered her department to terminate Harvard's student and exchange visitor program certification, effectively barring the university's ability to admit foreign students.
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Scott, we're back. Google has announced it will roll out its AI mode. Sounds so scary. A new search feature which will function like a chat bot to all users in the U.S. The feature will include personalized and automated email replies, can automatically purchase items when they're on sale, and with a new addition, can click around the web for you, like to book travel.
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This is the idea behind all this stuff. For now, AI mode will just appear as an option inside of Google Search. However, the group of the biggest news publishers in the U.S. expressed disapproval in a statement on Wednesday, saying the new feature deprives publishers of traffic and revenue. No shit.
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Harvard says it has nearly 10,000 people in its international academic population in an unusually petty move for the Trump administration, which specializes in petty moves. They have attacked Harvard in this way that really could hurt a lot of foreign students, because about a third of its students are from international countries all over the world. I think probably this will not happen.
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An internal document disclosing Google's antitrust trial this week revealed that the company decided against asking publishers for permission to have their work featured in AI search features. Talk a little bit about AI mode. I mean, again, they've got to fight back because they sort of have the pole position being the leader in search.
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They should be dominating this, and they're certainly not, although they've certainly got a lot of power. So talk about, would you use AI mode to replace your other apps? I find myself using Google a lot less than a lot more, in my experience, and I'm shifting over to ChatGPT and whatever's on Apple.
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And I guess I'm just about to shift from Google Maps to Apple Maps because they've gotten as good, for example. So thoughts?
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Yeah. So did they not get stepped on? How do you look at that?
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I think Trump administration will back down, as it always does. It's just another salvo that it likes to do publicly. Probably, if they keep at it, it will go to the Supreme Court, which is interesting because four of the nine justices went to Harvard Law School, and two of them also went to Harvard College. The rest went to Yale and other you know, important universities around the country.
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I think OpenAI's principal competitor is Google. That's it. That's it. I don't meta from the outside with the open stuff. And they'll certainly be a player. But if I had the top three of those three, absolutely. I did see it. And I do use, I think what I like about Google Search, and I still use it, I'm just using it less, just slightly less. I feel my patterns, right?
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Because Google was the go-to period, and now it's not the go-to period. But I do like when you search for something, the questions they add, like it anticipates your next question of why this is this and why this is this. And so I like that. I think search is a lot more searchable and useful. And I never go down below the first six inches, right, of the whole thing.
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They usually get my answer to me pretty quickly. And so that's great except for everyone else below the line, right? They are deploying it well. They still, still have a problem with design. You know, I always thought this was Apple's to lose in terms of delivering. Apple, I don't think, is doing anything that's really fantastic in terms of AI deployed to help me through my day.
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I think Chappie GPT is much more helpful. And I think they're kludgy too. I think they're all kludgy. So we'll see. I think obviously Google's, I think you're absolutely right. It's the empire strikes back and they have to. And so they have to get more dynamic, I suspect. Anyway. Let's move on to the last thing. Democrats still wanted Joe Rogan, Scott.
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Since their loss in November, donor retreats and pitch documents have been full of asks for rich backers to contribute to the party's efforts to develop an army of influencers. Efforts include American Bridge, one of the largest influencers. Democratic Donor Networks, which has launched a plan for a nonprofit called Achieve Narrative Dominance and aims to have a budget of over $70 million.
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Project Echo, a new four-year, $52 million influencer program from the progressive nonprofit American Way. and several other smaller projects looking to amplify left-leaning influencers. I'm just looking at the top charts. I'm just using podcasts because there's lots of ways to influence on all the different platforms. But actually, Joe Rogan's dropped rather considerably. He's now down at 6%.
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I think left wing ones are left or softer ones are near the top. Good hang with Amy Poehler's really burning the charts these days. The Daily is still up there. Obviously, Megyn Kelly's still up there. But I got to say a lot. It's not so much a right dominated thing. Tucker Carlson's up. near the top. But so is Michelle Obama right next to him.
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Midas Touch is right there, along with things like Diary of a CEO, you know, or the crime ones that are up to the top. So, you know, I feel like it's a mixed bag these days on a lot of these shows. I don't know. What do you think? Should they try to do this? It seems kind of silly. It's sort of like making fetch happen.
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Pivot is 76, just so you know, in the world.
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Yeah, top 100. We're in the top 100.
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We're higher than Charlie Kirk.
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Prof G is 87. I'm just sorry. Go ahead.
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I do think that eventually the Trump administration is going to pay for this kind of behavior and we'll lose, lose, lose, lose, lose again in court. We'll see how this turns out and we'll have plenty to say about it over the coming weeks. Oh, and one more thing, Scott, I have a quick update for you on the fake Scott scam that's been floating around on, of course, Metaproperties.
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Just saying.
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We're higher than all in. Too bad, boys. You BFFs or whatever you call yourselves.
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Yes, this is what I talked to you about, this idea of creating a consolidated, about six months ago, this idea of bringing us all together, where we trade podcasts. The right does this beautifully.
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Let's just be a little bit more... I don't think we... The problem is, I don't think the left moves in lockstep in the same way. Exactly. They aren't house organs, right? And so when I was... I was talking to some rich people into doing this about six months ago, this idea. But it's really hard. What you have to do is more... push each other. You know, I've had Julie Lee Stryfus in our thing.
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We're going to do some things with Crooked, I hope, where we trade and push each other. The problem is we don't coordinate with the Trump administration or whoever the Democrat, in our case, whoever the Democratic administration, we're not going to go, all right, Pete, what do you want us to do today? The way the Trump people do with Fox News.
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You did very, one of our most popular social things was Scott listing all the grift, like in lists. It was really, just to bring it together.
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So you had complained about this. This is fake Scots. And I think it's absolutely something to complain about. I have the same issue on Amazon with fake Kara Swisher books. They don't take the care to get them down. And I think you made the very salient point that you don't see this in the New York Times or MSNBC or CNBC, but- Or Snap or even YouTube. Anything. Tell them what happens.
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Right. Or saving anybody there. Or settling anything there. One of the things that was pretty heinous yesterday, it was a joke, as you're noting this, the head of South Africa made a joke, I don't have a plane to give you. And then Trump goes, well, I'd take it if you did. Oh, my God. And by the way, that was he was spewing right wing conspiracy stuff.
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It was for Congo. And even his conspiracy theories were inaccurate. Like it was just full of nonsense. That was a white. And by the way, guess who I blame for that? Some a famous South African who was one of his advisors.
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But anyway, you're right. You're absolutely right. I don't think we have to create a Joe Rogan. That's not what we want. I mean, you could say Jon Stewart sometimes or John Oliver. They're all over the place. We have to create, to me, a 360 on every single social platform where we're not necessarily coordinating. I think you can't make fetch happen with the left. You can't.
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But we're really giving messages and drilling in, as Scott said, on grift, on give messages of hope and give messages of these guys are crooks over and over and over again. But coordination is not really a left thing to do.
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Yep, exactly. That's the problem. That's the problem. All right. One more quick break and we'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
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There's fake Scots selling investment advice, right? Yeah.
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All right. Sundar Pichai thanks you.
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Good idea for us to do that, but go ahead.
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So interestingly, because Sudho Pichai is sort of never mentioned, you know, you give Satya lots of props. He's kind of a plotter. I know him very well. I've known him since he was a young product manager on a bunch of stuff at Google. He's kind of a plotter. He's always thought of as doesn't make decisions fast enough. He certainly isn't a hand waver about himself.
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You know, he's quite he's just a nice guy. He's just a really nice guy. So he doesn't get the kind of props. And you're right. It's a difficult company to tell the story of because there's so many parts of it. That's an interesting prediction. I think that's interesting. But I will note, I use Google a lot less than I did. I don't know why, but you're right.
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It's theirs to lose in many ways, but it's good they have competitors.
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At one point, the head of Microsoft, Sundar, was a name that was floated as the head of Microsoft also because he hadn't gotten the CEO of Google job. But yes, they're both really remarkable citizens of the United States and also immigrants. You know, I've had lots of really interesting discussions with Sundar about the anti-immigration Trump stuff, but he's a quiet leader.
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Well, I think he'll probably, you're right, it's there, so it's a really interesting prediction. My prediction is that at 10 o'clock tonight, Kara Swisher will be so happy because she's watching it.
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I'll text you at 2 in the morning because it's a movie. Anyway, because it'll be like a half an hour of previews, I'm sure. Anyway, I'm so excited. I bought the popcorn in advance and the drink, and I'm very excited to watch Mission Impossible final. Anyway, I feel like an ad for them, but I don't care. I love that movie. Anyway, I love the series. Anyway, we want to hear from you.
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Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is growing handily.
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Elon’s Politics Detox, the “Big, Beautiful” Bill's Next Phase, and Open AI's Big Bet
Scott, we're actually dark next Tuesday for Memorial Day, but we'll have a great episode of Stay Tuned with Preet in our feed. We'll be back next Friday.
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And so the fact that I'm out there- Only yoga pants for our customers, but go ahead.
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Or we've got most of it. That's what sets you off.
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They texted me and then I texted you.
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Sorry, Andy. I told you. Anyway.
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What happened?
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You're supposed to talk to them on the phone. You're like, I want to talk to you now. And you didn't talk to them?
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All right. You do that. You know, at the very same time something happened with your thing, Walt couldn't get back into Facebook when he got a new iPhone. And they had put him on a security list by accident, some weird security list. So I think that didn't get fixed either. But he was a whole lot nicer about the situation.
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One of the things that I was telling Amanda about it, and I said, she said, not everyone knows Kara Swisher. Or if you fix it for one, why can't you fix it for everybody? That shouldn't be the way customer service works. They should take everything down. There should be no mistakes. It can't be that hard. It's not in the New York Times. It's not in magazines. It's not. I know it's a harder thing.
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difficult, more difficult thing, but that's the business you've chosen. And therefore you need to keep your place clean.
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They give these makers a lot of outs. Like, I think it was whatever strikes that they get. Anyway, you better fix it, boys, because Scott Galloway is not happy.
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No, you don't do anything like that. Like, you know how Amazon now has a hand scan at Whole Foods? And someone was like, would you like to try it? I said, as fucking if I give my hand print to Amazon. Yeah, you pay just by putting your hand down.
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Okay. We've got a lot to get to today, including Target's struggles and OpenEye making a deal with former Apple designer Johnny Ibe with a photo that looked like he was marrying Sam Altman. It was a lovely photo. But first, Elon Musk says he plans to significantly reduce his political spending moving forward, saying in an interview,
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With Bloomberg at the Cutter Economic Forum, I think I've done enough. I think we all think that. This after he poured over $290 million in the 2024 election to support Trump and Republicans. He also spent roughly $25 million on that Wisconsin Supreme Court race that he, like, shit the bed. The cheesehead hat, the whole thing. He shit the bed, essentially.
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Things got a little testy in that same interview when he was asked about Doge saving less than originally promised. The whole thing was frigging testy. What a little baby. What a little wussy baby he is. Okay, let's listen.
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This is such horseshit. He closed down a ton of stuff. He didn't do well. That's all. Just like the Cybertruck, this was a flop so far. And of course, Congress has to pass it. But he ran through all the government, cutting things, closing things, firing things. He had plenty of power. And he had the president of the United States behind him. So he was running rampant.
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What happened is he ran rampant. He did stupid things like the chainsaw thing. He pushed around. And now there's story after story coming in about what a fucking nuisance he was to these people. ran over Congress, ran over cabinet members, did stupid things, made idiotic mistakes. He's not getting to $2 trillion. And the entire interview was just ridiculous, saying Tesla's doing great.
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He's just such a—it's such horseshit. This guy is full of horseshit. This was a failure. It was too bad, as we all say, good thing to cut things, and he didn't reach his goals. And even the $170 billion is questionable. I'm sure he's cost the U.S. taxpayer money, but he got his. He got his regulatory relief. He's going to probably be part of that Golden Dome thing.
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He will probably benefit in lots of ways with Starlink and everything else. So let's just say he got his. So one headline described this interview as a billionaire man-child. Elon Musk gives his most petulant interview to date. I think that was correct. Scott, any quick thoughts? And then we'll talk about the Tesla part.
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And he's alienated the Republicans. You should read these stories.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
So, you know, and the guy who runs the FTC is such an unctuous toady. Andrew Ferguson, let me name him. You're an unctuous toady. To allow these people, they're going to have a dominance. They need to add one more person to the... They're going to have a dominance anyway, so I don't know why they need to do this. But it really does.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
It feels like payback to everybody standing up there at Trump, all the tech billionaires, in terms of antitrust cases and everything else. Even if you didn't agree with Lena Kahn, that's the whole point here is the party in power gets to decide. And this is just a wholesale giveaway to the billionaires again, once again.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I am, just for a few short days.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I know. I know. Amanda required it. He didn't require it, actually. My two younger kids have different vacations because they're at different schools. And this was the only crossover. And then Louie's coming, too. Alex just recently went on his own vacation, so he's not coming. He's got school. But, yeah, I know I'm going to, like, not do anything for four days, which is probably not true.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Google bought the Wiz for $32 billion, for people who don't know. It's a security cloud company, cloud security startup.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
It is. It's enormous. So it really is anti-competitive because it's one of the most fast-growing software companies in the world right now. So it's taking out, again, a really robust competitor, which is really something.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
FTC chairperson Ferguson, again, unctuous toady, his new nickname, posted a statement on X saying he had no doubts about Trump's constitutional authority to remove commissioners. Oh, my God. It literally says he can't remove commissioners. It's so weird. It's like them saying, oh, president, someone in MAGA are saying you can, president can stay three terms.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And I was like, the 22nd Amendment says you can't. And these people are arguing the Constitution says you can't. Literally the opposite of what it says, they say. And it's so irritating. Senator Maria Cantwell and Amy Klobuchar, by the way, who serve on the committees that oversee the FTC, even though they don't have power right now.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
President Trump's dismissal of Commissioner Slaughter and Bedoya not only illegal, but also hurts consumers by undermining an independent agency that Congress established to protect consumers from fraud scams. And monopoly power. Now, the FTC is moving forward with its meta lawsuits. Ferguson said they're going to move forward with meta. We'll see. We'll see.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I think that's probably their strongest case. And again, if they can move forward with these things, and if they lose, they lose, right? So, you know, we'll see how much they're going forward. So I guess Mark Zuckerberg's appearance didn't help as much as the others, essentially. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Starlink gets installed at the White House. Even worse.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
God, it just gets worse and worse. Support for Pivot comes from Delete.me. It's pretty safe for me to assume that your personal information is accessible online. And no, I'm not just talking about your name or your pictures of the year you graduated high school. I'm talking about even more sensitive information.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
But I'll probably be talking to you.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com slash pivot code pivot. Last week, John Levitt joined me to co-host an episode of Pivot, and it was a great one.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
If you enjoyed that, you'll love his podcast, Love It or Leave It. Love It or Leave It is America's top late-night political gay live comedy podcast. John takes on the biggest and most absurd stories in politics and helps you stay informed while laughing instead of crying. Sometimes he cries. Each episode promises big-name guests, unexpected conversations, and can't-miss moments.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Catch new episodes of Love It or Leave It every Saturday. Watch on YouTube or join the live show in LA to witness the chaos in person.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Where are you coming up with all these bad jokes? Did you get a joke book?
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Scott, we're back. Starlink is now accessible at the White House. White House officials said the move is an effort to increase Internet availability, saying some areas of property couldn't get cell service. This is nonsense. The system was reportedly routed through the White House data center.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Officials said Starlink donated the service and the gift was vetted by lawyers overseeing ethics issues at the White House counsel's office. So many tech types I talk to say this is dangerous. It's like putting Putin's listening device in the White House. But that might already be there in the form of the president. So I don't know. What do you think? It's also ethically ridiculous.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I know. I know. I know. But lately, there's been five or six really bad jokes.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I just don't know why they, the security issues to me or whatever. They can get whatever they want from this guy, the Russians. But you can imagine this creates a more porous environment, which is maybe the point.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Another thing they're doing besides making us less secure is also, from a technical point of view, is removing information from websites all over the government that is, you know, mentions people. And there's two things that really stood out. The first The HHS has removed the Surgeon General's Advisory on Gun Violence from its website.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
A spokesperson for the agency said the content was removed to comply with Trump's executive order to protect Second Amendment rights. Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the U.S., also recently removed. This was heinous. Articles about Native American code talkers have been removed from some military websites, having been labeled DEI.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
The Navajo code talkers aided America's victory at Iwo Jima. historically critically important group of people who did this. And I think they're removing all kinds of things that, well, some words don't work and they end up removing the wrong thing because they have a list of fucking words that don't work instead of going through this kind of thing.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
They just do this wholesale, you know, cut and paste, essentially. Replacing this information is going to be very difficult over time because it will be replaced eventually. But between the firearms and these code talkers, it's... I feel like I'm living in 1984, like in the book 1984. I don't know how you feel.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
No, text, you text them. My sons don't pay attention. Oh, I didn't read your text. I didn't read your text.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
It's un-American. It's petty and it's cruel and it's weird. It's just weird. It's just so weird. I mean, especially these – the gun stuff is – Beyond belief. It's just a fact. And I think what's really, you know, obviously it's yet another attempt, like with the judges. This has a theme, everybody. You remove the judges, you remove information, you only tell people, I don't think it works at all.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I agree. I don't even understand it. What if the house is on fire? I know that. Well, you wouldn't text that, would you? Would you text that?
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I honestly don't. I think people are sick and tired of this and they get it. And Americans are uniquely different. difficult group of people. And so I don't think it works. I don't think it holds. I think in other countries, sometimes it does. But in this one, I think people get furious about especially stuff like this. I mean, literally just to, they have one issue with DEI and they cannot stop.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
That's the thing. They cannot stop with one or two things. They've got to completely erase DEI. Everything, especially this cut and paste of words. I forget what they took out, some dumb thing. But that's beyond belief. This to me is ridiculous. And everyone knows that gun violence kills kids. That's it. I don't care how many things they take down. Everybody knows. And everyone's aware of it.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And they will... pay the price here for going overboard on almost everything.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I love all your stats.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
The house is on fire.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And it's very typical. It's not a surprise. I think karma is a bitch. I think putting people in jail that never had a criminal record without due process, everything is karma is going to be such a bitch here. I just believe that because it's one thing after the next where injustice happens. And so we'll see. Let's go on a quick break. We come back. We'll talk about BYD's big breakthrough.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
No, no, no. We rented an Airbnb by the ocean. And so it's near El Yunque, Amanda loves Puerto Rico. I went there as a kid. I haven't been there in a long time. It's a beautiful place. And so it's on the beach and it's near the beautiful rainforest there. So we're going to go hiking, get Louie to cook, obviously, because he's now the babysitter and cook for the situation.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And just relax for just a few days. It's not very long, but I need it, I think.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Yes, I haven't vacationed in a long time. When I vacation, I don't vacation. For people who need to understand this, I don't take time off.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Yeah, I know that. I'm aware. I'm aware of the entire thing. We're going to have some guest hosts in a few weeks because actually you're doing a thing with your kid, but that's different. That's a little different.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Thank you. Thank you. . . . . . ., en P. P. P. P. P. P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a Laboratory a
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
College tour. Oh, my God.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
No, don't say that. It's hard to get in, but actually I heard Harvard was off like in terms of applications.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Oh my God, stop with the Wokistan.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
What's a good U.S. retailer that competes with Shein and Timu? Who would you say? I mean, they're all the expensive ones, right? The Gap sort of doesn't.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
There's no low-cost. There's expensive ones like Hannah Anderson Rocks, or there's all kinds of really wonderful higher-end children's clothing, for example. I'm just thinking of children's clothing. But it's, I mean... I'm trying to think. H&M, I like a lot. I like the other one.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
It just sucked. I never could go in that store. It was like terrible. And I like a cheap clothing store. In any case, we'll see what happens with the others. But obviously, as Scott said, it's global. OK, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. The question comes from Kyle. Let's listen.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, in concept, it's a great idea. And, you know, again, what's really the point is rich people need to pay more taxes. Like, I don't know why that never gets- And corporations. Corporations. That's really what has to happen.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And soon tariffs. Yeah, so hand-waving for right now. Anyway, you got a question of your own, go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Yeah, so it's not that big a deal.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
No, I haven't. No, I haven't seen it at all. I've heard about it. I've heard it's amazing and depressing and upsetting. But everyone, I've heard several people talk about it.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Can I ask you a question? Because I tend to avoid these things now, even though I've heard a lot about this show and also Euphoria or any of these. There was a documentary about teens. There's all kinds of these things. I kind of avoid them because they're so upsetting to me. How do you deal with that? Because you're writing a book on it, obviously, which comes out when?
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
No, you should. You've been the leading woman.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
What? I mean, I got to get it out. Oh, no. You need to dare him to a fight. But how is it watching these things? Because I think I have noticed I have tended towards happy things when I'm watching things, and Severance, because it's so good, by the way, season end this Friday. Yeah. I just, it either has to be really astonishing like severance or very happy like running point, right? I can't.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Talk a little bit about this because you're writing a book on it. These topics are dire. How do you manage to feel hopeful watching any of this? And that's one of the reasons I avoided adolescence.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Has anyone- You are posting happy things on, on, I've noticed. I've got to. You really have. A lot of them are delightful, by the way.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
All right. Adolescence is a recommendation and a prediction, I guess. Okay. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe, this week on Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke another happy thing with Dr. Fiona Hill, a senior fellow at Brookings, chancellor at Durham University and former White House Russia expert, also testified during the impeachment hearings.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Really smart person who worked for us and now does not. Let's listen to a clip.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Well, that's heartening. That's an interesting thing to say. She's brilliant, actually. She's really brilliant. I'm glad you had her on. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Tuesday. Scott, read us out.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I would agree. Except for your obsession with woke-ascended colleges, because I think they're mostly beaten down by now. So I think we can move along on that issue. I think that has been sucked in. Oh, I don't think so. Okay. In any case, I think a lot of colleges do do this for people who don't know. It's not a new and fresh idea from Harvard. That was the thing I was not aware of.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And it is true. And if you make under a certain amount, you get the whole thing free, right? That was if you get in, if you get in.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
You know, I'm going to Puerto Rico. Did I tell you? Oh, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. A lot of sunblock. A lot of sunblock. Sunblock. Sunblock. They are also under siege by the government right now.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Come on. Stop it. Trump is acting like a total asshole. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including more presidential power grabs, the Chinese EV company putting Tesla on blast, and the fast fashion war claims its latest victim. By the way, I have a little text thing with Jess Tarloff. She'll come to Paris with me. I'm just saying.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Arm believes the future isn't about technology, it's about people and the possibilities technology can offer us. The future is built on Arm. You can discover more at arm.com slash discover.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I'm going to steal you from her. I'll steal her from you.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Okay. All right. Okay. No, I just like her. She was teasing. She goes, I can't believe you. Now, you know that there was a movie where all the people who had affairs with the guy got together and took revenge on him. It's with Cameron Diaz. And oh, my God, what's that movie called? Anyway, that's what's happening here. All your exes are getting together and we're going to take revenge on you.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
That is correct. That is correct.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
That's right. In any case.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Okay. Anyway, let's bring it back. All right. First, speaking of losing, the judiciary is really pushing back on Donald Trump. Chief Justice John Roberts clapping back against President Trump. Earlier this week, Trump called for the impeachment of a district judge who'd ruled against him over the deportation of Venezuelans, which led Roberts to issue a very rare response. Let me read part of it.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
For more than two centuries, it's been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision. The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose. It's a little bit weak sauce, but there was. One GOP representative introduced articles of impeachment against the judge.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Let's listen to what President Trump had to say about it on Laura Ingraham.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
This is what he said about every judge who deals with him. This is just a typical thing he does, is insults the judges in any way. According to a sworn filing in an immigration and customs enforcement official, many of those deported did not have criminal records. It's really quite amazing. They just grabbed people. He's lost, I think, six times with judges.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
So, again, appellate courts are the way you win here, Donald Trump. You tend not to win because what you do is... illegal. But anyway, this is a major showdown, I think, between Trump and the Supreme Court. And he's setting up a real fight with the Supreme Court, because all of these are going to eventually get to the Supreme Court. Any thoughts?
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Yeah, that was by the guy who runs El Salvador, who seems like an asshole. I think that was his with the music. I think he put them up.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Well, I think that's why Roberts did that. He's issuing a warning because he's lost in the Supreme Court several times recently, especially because of Amy Coney Barrett and Roberts together with the liberal wing of the party. It keeps being 5-4. And I think that he doesn't seem to – the Supreme Court orders he has yet to over not do. The issue is he's also the enforcer of these things.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And so – and J.D. Vance keeps quoting Andrew Jackson, let him enforce it. If he wants to say this, let him enforce it. But it's also, you know, really, it's just, this is what he's doing. And what he's doing is he's raising, he goes, you wouldn't, you can't do that. However, we have bad judges. The only judge he likes is Eileen Cannon, who does whatever he wants, right? Anything that's for him.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And she's a, she's a. She's incompetent, a judge, essentially. But she gets to stay there until they remove her. And she can be overturned on appellate court. And that's the whole system, which is what Roberts was talking about. But we'll see how far he goes here. Like, he's already gone very, very far down the line. And his little handmaidens to sedition, like...
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Laura Ingraham, are really disturbing. Like, it's a disturbing thing to agree that you're going to attack judges. Now, in other countries where they've tried this, the guys, typically, they don't win. The courts tend to win. But we'll see. We'll see what happens.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I see the future of the GOP right here. Right here it is. It can only do so much. We'll see what happens. And I think Roberts is a critically important character, even though most people think he's a limp noodle. But he did that. And for him, that was like screaming, I think, I believe, according to lawyers I know.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
And by the way, he keeps Trump is lost and lost and lost yesterday, particularly over and over and over again.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Right. I think he has started to not ignore them on some things, and the others, they play fast and cute. Especially that border czar, Tom Homan. What a clown. Well, he looks like he's... enjoying a cocktail or two when he speaks to the press. But he says, we'll do what we want. He seems so dumb and a clown.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
Anyway, President Trump just fired, by the way, the two Democratic members of the FTC, which is very illegal, saying their services is inconsistent with my administration's policies. That's right, because they're Democrats. Just for people to know, The FTC typically has five members with the president's party holding three of those seats. They're seven-year terms.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
You can't fire them except for gross incompetence, not inconsistent with my administration's policies. That's the whole point of having two members be from a different party. The two fired Democrats, Rebecca Kelly Slaughter, who I know very well, and Alvaro Bedoya, plan to challenge Trump's decision in court, obviously. Bedoya told the New York Times,
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
I'm sure there are lesbians who have Cybertrucks, but I'm not speaking to them anymore. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink
When people hear the news, they need not think about me. They need to think about the billionaires behind the president and his inauguration. And that's exactly what this is. This is a payback to the people who sat on the front row. FTC is investigating all of these companies. Whether you agree with them or not, they'll lose in court if they're not. They don't have a good case, again.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
So you use the word chaos a lot. It's important. This is one of Elon's signature moves, chaos. to create chaos or create trouble and then make accusations. He's got six or seven moves, including attacking you for revealing the names, for example. But chaos is the point here, I think, in many ways, so that everyone has to run around and do these Band-Aid approaches.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Can you give people a sense of why they want that? I have a theory, but what is their need for getting that, to get to the data?
Pivot
DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. Scott is off today. Who knows where he is? But in his place, we have someone so much better, Katie Drummond, the global editorial director of Wired. Wired has always been a powerhouse, but particularly in the era of Trump, Elon and Doge, which I'm calling doggy now.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
It does vaunt Grok ahead, which is not ahead. Grok is not ahead. But it puts him in a pole position. Because, as you know, many... AI researchers think we're running out of data, right? That's been the big discussion recently. Well, there you go. And you're right, he does. But for what purpose does he want to run it? That's the part that's going to be very difficult to report.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
when you're thinking about it in that big a term.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Or he wants to go to Mars and he needs the government to do so. There's all kinds of theories on that. So let's talk about the relationship you mentioned between Donald Trump and Elon Musk. They sat down for a joint interview with Sean Hannity, the House reporter there at the White House. And I mean that in a negative way. Hannity said he felt like he was interviewing two brothers.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Hannity, it was the biggest wet kiss. He licked them up and down the entire time. Elon shared how much money he's trying to cut from the deficit. Let's listen.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
God, that's the idiot's guide to how countries are run. But that's not correct. That's not correct. But, well, Doge says it saved $55 billion in federal spending. So far, the actual data shows it's much less. One major error found on the Doge website, it mislabeled the contract as $8 billion when it was actually $8 million.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You all have been doing a lot of reporting around this, this idea of what the cuts that are being made. And NPR just did one showing the same thing, that this is not $55 billion. And of course, now they're also talking about sending people dividend checks, which is trying to make people happy with them and allowing them to keep doing what they're doing. It's come rather early.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
The payoff has come rather early. But talk a little bit about this and what these young people are trying to do. And are there more of them moving into the space now that it's gotten momentum?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
and its coverage has become required reading. Katie, welcome. You've had a busy couple weeks with all these scoops on Doggie, which led to a record-breaking increase in subscriptions. We'll get to that in a second, but welcome. Thank you for coming.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
When you are looking at who is doing this, it's indiscriminate because they're also inexperienced. The vetting of these people who are doing this is also... you're doing the vetting. Wired is doing the vetting. And a lot of them have sort of what I'm not surprised by, but typical obnoxious tech bro behaviors, you know, in terms of being on certain sites, doing certain things.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Okay, all right. Well, you're here, at least, as opposed to whatever the hell Scott's doing, taking edibles and not skiing, wherever he is. So I want to talk a little bit, because you guys have really come on strong here. Now, tell me about your approach to covering this administration. Now, you became Global Editorial Director relatively recently, right? Is that correct? Yeah.
Pivot
DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And explain why he wants those young people to do it. I know why, because the older people wouldn't.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
It is. It is. It is. And yet older people just wouldn't do it. They do have older people, as you've noted, and others have reported, very sophisticated lawyers and everything else. Someone who's not hiding his disgust for Elon is Steve Bannon, which is interesting. Bannon called Elon, Elon, I think, this week, a parasitic illegal immigrant, though he did compliment Doge.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And he said Elon wants to play act as God. He does seem to be a fan, as I said, of Doge's work. He told CNN. Let's listen.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
So Bannon later called out Elon, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos as oligarchs who don't support the MAGA movement. What is going on here? I think he would turn and be pals with Elon in five seconds. No question with this guy.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Right, right, right. And that's what those compliments for him. When you think about those who are pushing back, are there really true people pushing back? And what can be done? Obviously, Scott makes fun of the people, the Democrats standing in front of agencies and yelling. But, you know, there is something to protest, obviously.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Is there real pushback within the government and within technology circles? They just seem to be quitting. A lot of the techies who are in there are leaving, are going. Yeah.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Yeah. Among the biggest people is the cyber people. They're terribly worried. That's the ones who are sort of sounding the alarms in terms of the porousness of what's happening here. Yeah. All right. We're going to a quick break. When we come back, more about Doge Central and Wired's amazing reporting. Support for Pivot comes from Delete.me.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Katie, we're back. There's obviously been a lot of questions. You mentioned about conflicts of interest since Elon came to Washington. I agree. I don't think his big thing is to make money, although he doesn't mind doing it. And he's supported, like he's using threats to push X. He's using threats to this and that. He's doing the typical shakedown kind of thing that can happen.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Wired has done some new reporting on SpaceX engineers in the FAA. They're also putting his people within the FAA. And also, apparently, President Trump's trying to get him to figure out why he doesn't have his jet. Like, he's putting him on that, too. Talk about that.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I'll note SpaceX launches are regulated by the FAA, and the agency has alleged that SpaceX violated safety rules in the past many times. Talk a little bit about the story today.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Yeah, and it's happening all over the government. Obviously, you guys have been reporting on that. And again, who's running SpaceX and Twitter and all these others? Obviously, Steve Davis, who's been a very active Musk minion. What is the point here of putting them there just for eyes? I assume eyes and ears.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
What's the impact on the companies? Because Because by the way, Tesla's not doing great, by the way. They're not, you know, but what is happening at the companies when they pull these people out?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Could he put, he could put them in every agency, his own employees, correct? That they're that are beholden to him and nobody else.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And who is coordinating all that? Elon is not doing this alone. Who do you think is the most critical person helping him coordinate this?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And why did you have that instinct? Because of AI around the world, regulatory issues, that was the focus, was that everybody's going to be focused in on what AI means and the governments included.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And he always has those. He has those all the time that are loyal to him. What people have to understand, they're loyal to Elon Musk, not Donald Trump. These are not Trump. These were not Trump supporters, and neither was Elon for a long time. So I want to ask you about the president, because what is his role in here?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Last week, he's channeled Napoleon posting, he who saves his country does not violate the law. He was trolling people with that. He also called himself king on Wednesday as he tried to kill Congestion pricing in New York. He's busy. That interview was really something. It doesn't seem like he knows what Elon is doing. That's my impression.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Nothing at all. All right, Katie, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about X's new valuation.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Katie, we're back. Let's get to a couple more headlines. Elon Musk acts as in talks to raise money from investors at a valuation of $44 billion. If that number sounds familiar, it's because it's the same price Musk bought the platform back in 2022 in December 2020. Fidelity Investments marked down its stake in the company by 70%.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
This follows a trend of Musk Company valuations soaring since he's taken a significant role in the Trump administration, even if the companies are suffering, such as Tesla. Numbers are down and the price was up. X is not in the same place it was pre-Elon. It's smaller.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Today, the Wall Street Journal published a very good story about X people pressuring advertisers to get back on or else maybe they'll face an investigation or they'd be added to a lawsuit that they're doing. They're using a lot of legal means. to try to force advertisers onto it, what is clearly a less good platform. Talk about this.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Although, again, it's not for him to make money is not maybe his guiding role. He certainly is doing it. And here's a perfect example of it.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Right. They are going to either pay or not, but you're going to be in trouble eventually. in some way. Let me read you someone. I asked them about this today.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I think this dynamic's playing out that every advertiser who knows what they're doing, no media buyer, indeed no marketer, once their CEO gets a call from Elon Musk berating them for not advertising on X, it sounds judgment to avoid by throwing some money to the company. Everything about this I loathe. It creates bad precedent. It puts money in Elon's pocket. It undermines the advertising business.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You know, I think it's just prudent business. I have heard stories That the team is making veiled threats, perhaps not so veiled threats, and I think it will ultimately bite them someday. But this is a classic story of corruption that, you know, it's just a kind of thing like that. You cannot build businesses on threats. I mean, you can't, but you can actually.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
When did you sort of get the idea that you should really look at Doge? Because I think it's really, I mean, I'm feeling like, how did they get into this USAID? Where did you get this? You know, all this stuff that you were getting and the identities and information about all these people that were working for it. Because that's years of beat reporting, essentially.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
They are saying, I've heard them say it to me, that we don't have a choice. We can't do it right now. We can't do anything about it. Is there anyone else trying to take it back? Obviously, all the tech leaders showed up at inauguration in that shameless display of fealty.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Is there any resistance in tech at all? besides Reid Hoffman and maybe Mark Cuban?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
So last question, the Democrats, I don't think we're as close to tech as people thought it was. I thought Obama was, you know, in that regard with Eric Schmidt and others. Do you think it's a wholesale change? I think it's an opportunistic change. And the joke I make is that If Kamala Harris won, Mark Zuckerberg would be asking us to calling him they-them. Yes.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I mean, I was trying to figure it out. I'm like, wow, they were up to speed rather quickly and rather accurately on what's happening. What was the strategy there? Yeah.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You know, I don't think it's anything other than that because I don't think they're committed in any way. And I think Steve Bannon's right. They're not MAGA friends. They just are opportunistic. In that regard, is there an opportunity for Democrats in that way, besides giving these toddlers what they want? You mean to get closer to the tech industry? To get back to closest.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Or do you think it's an overall shift that's permanent?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Okay, Katie, it's time for this week's Threads poll result. Last week, we asked you all what you wish Democrats were doing in response to Trump administration. That's why I was asking about that. Here are a few responses. Carrie said, replace Schumer's entire comm staff with Pete Buttigieg. From Marina, primarily retire all those old white men and support young, ferocious, fearless candidates.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And Nick said, talk like human beings, stop fundraising texts, demonstrate understanding of urgency. We know the house is on fire. We want to see firefighters, nurses, cops. Good answers, kind of what you were saying. I mean, I think this is right. It's the elderliness of it, the tone definite, the lack of social media. I think the Republicans are excellent on social media.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And comparatively, and that the Democrats certainly aren't as much. Some are, certainly are. Do you see anybody being very promising? I mean, Pritzker suddenly has sort of developed a backbone and is using social media a lot. Obviously, AOC uses it. Is there anybody? And how important is that going forward?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Waving, Scott says waving their canes at people. I would agree. I actually see Chris Murphy doing some interesting things. There's a bunch of them. There's a bunch of them, but it has to be coordinated in a way that, you know, and you still have the power of the Rogans, although he's slipping a little bit. You're starting to see slippage with him.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I think the audience is up for grabs, that's for sure, if they want to have the right questions. All right. Now for this week's questions for our audience. Do you think China will agree to the sale of TikTok under the Trump administration? Katie, I want your response very quickly on this one.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And do you see any person besides Larry Ellison rising to the front? I would say Musk, obviously, because he's acceptable to China.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Yeah, I think it's probably going to be the Elon thing once again. He's going to fix everything. And it's good for Twitter. It would be good for Twitter because that's an actually good product as opposed to Twitter. Visit us on threads at pivotpodcastofficial to answer. So we'll hear the answers that we get from listeners.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
If you've got a question of your own or you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Katie, one more quick break. We'll be back for your prediction.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Okay, Katie, let's hear a prediction. You are Scott Galloway today.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And it's just your wish, your wish that he, that he will do this? I think there is a 1% chance that it will happen. And so I'm using it as my prediction. He used to support, I just was looking at texts he sent me about the climate change thing. He was so upset in the text, like Trump was doing. Same thing, oddly enough, with gay and lesbian stuff.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Well, we'll see. I don't know what could happen. Getting off the evening activities, I don't know what could happen.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You never know. His daughter is nice to him, who can't stand him.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
He is consistent. Donald Trump is consistent. He has not changed one bit except he's got a rich friend that he uses as a cudgel on everybody else. But we'll see. That's a really good one, Katie. I like it. Thank you. I like it. Excellent. I like it. We'll see. I will have you back in six months if that happens. All right. I just want to say absolutely stellar coverage.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You guys are not just a scoop machine, but the context and you're sticking to it. Let me ask you a personal question. Are you worried in any way for yourself with all these threats? People ask me that a lot because when he recently threatened Scott and I, and I was like, oh, did he? Like, okay. But it's not something that's not in my mind, legal action or threats. you know, pressure from people.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I have seen it. I'm seeing it happen. I was supposed to appear with someone. They pulled out. They're like, oh, you're too hot. Like, and I was like, I don't think you mean that in a nice way, like kind of thing. And do you feel pressure not to keep doing what you're doing?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I used to tell that to our reporters. You just have to get it right. It has to be right. Yeah, it has to be right. You cannot make a mistake with these people because the minute you make even just the slightest one, you know, you have an Achilles heel showing them they will come for you. And that's what they'll do. But still, there are issues.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I think you're right to be concerned about digital issues, about technology. hacking about legal attacks and stuff like that. And so that's why it's all the more courageous for what you and others are doing in terms of, and keep going, keep going for big balls. I don't, you know, and the fact that you couldn't, I'm sorry, it was so good. We shouldn't laugh at this, but come on. How good is that?
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You like it a little bit.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Okay. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.
Pivot
DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Thank you, Katie. Thank you.
Pivot
DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
That's interesting that you use the word forceful because I get what you're doing because we've done it. We did it previously at All Things TV with Uber or Yahoo, whatever the story was. It's nothing like this story. I'll tell you, this is quite... I wouldn't even know what to do with this story. But talk about forcefulness because it's really important to have an editor who is...
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
you're a critical part of this, as I know, because I've been there, like not on this biggest story, but talk about the idea of forcefulness and aggression in doing that and not in a negative way.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Another thing is people do try to stop you. They say, why are you being so aggressive? I think people don't understand that when we were very aggressive on Uber and what was happening there with Travis Kalanick, a venture capitalist approached me at a restaurant called Murad, and they said, when are you gonna stop being so hard on him? And I said, when he stays down.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
And they were like, well, that's, you know, rude. I'm like, what? Like, I'm sorry. He's a terrible CEO. He's doing terrible things and he's not staying down. So when he stays down, that's probably when we'll stop or even beyond. It was interesting. It's hard for people to understand. Do you feel pressure yourself? Because this is big stakes. I mean, that was just Uber, like who cares kind of thing.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I don't mean to say who cares, but you know what I mean. This is the bigs. This is really the bigs. Do you personally feel pressure? Or do you feel that you have to pull back anyway? I've noticed a pullback among certain people, for sure.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Yeah, exactly. One of the things that was the attacks were so disingenuous. You know, you're saying who they are. You are not saying... little pricks or anything else. You know, you were, I was saying that. But you were very clearly just saying, this is who's working on this stuff. This is the federal government. It deserves transparency. And those attacks were disingenuous.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
I mean, he attacked, Ilan attacked Scott and I for being mean to them or something like that. It's part of a narrative they have, trying to get on how these poor kids, how dare you attack these poor kids. Right.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Yeah, exactly. And those stories were anything. So let's go into some of these stories, because I think it's really, people are sort of, it's a breathtaking level of scoops, I have to say. It's really, and I think a lot of people are doing a great job now. I do too. They've stepped up since you stepped up.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
It actually creates an energy around the coverage itself, which I think I've noticed just today. I saw about three stories elsewhere, and I was like, this would only be because Wired's been so aggressive. I appreciate that. But you can feel it. You can feel it. But people were slow to the idea of what's happening here. So it's been a month since Trump took office.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
There's a lot happening in the land of doggy, as I say. So let's dig in. One shocking thing we learned this week, Elon Musk's apparently not in charge of doggy. The White House said in a court fine that Elon Musk is not the U.S. doggy service administrator. I'm sorry to say it that way, but I'm going to keep doing it. He's an employee in the White House office akin to a senior advisor.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Talk a little bit about this, and I'm going to go into some of your stories, too, but talk about what you thought. Is this the loopiest of loopholes? The White House can stand up legal trouble. Several states' attorney generals argued in a suit last week that Elon is wielding power that can only be held by elected officials and people.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Confirmed by the Senate, but a federal judge ruled there isn't enough evidence for irreparable harm to justify a temporary restraining order. This is a legal nicety. The judge also expressed questions about what the White House was doing.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
So Wired published a story this week about a law that could possibly stop some of Doge's actions. Explain that. Explain what you're doing, because you are building a case, right, in your own way, in a journalistic way.
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DOGE’s Chaos Strategy, X’s New Valuation, and Guest Co-Host Katie Drummond
Do you have a legal reporter? How do you, because I think the lawsuits will reveal a lot, but it's the slowest way of dealing with a very difficult situation.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
The second part is critically important to think about too, because they were trying to solve this problem a little bit to figure it out. I'll start very briefly and then Scott can go. This is something I've been writing about for decades. We were constantly covering this at All Things DE and everything else because the numbers were so out of whack. It also includes women.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Scott, get excited because we're doing your favorite show of the year. Horn? No, no. Scott, immediately you go.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
That's like 8 percent or 6 percent. It's dropping. Whatever it is, it's dropping and they're all dropping, which is really astonishing. So, this means one of two things is that, you know, and essentially it's white men who are getting these, if you look at the statistics over and over and over again.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And it either means they're the smartest people on earth and they deserve it more than everybody else or that there's something going on. And there's a couple issues is that these groups of people tend to coalesce with each other and therefore reward each other. So, founders help other founders.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And very early in my career, when I was writing about this, I was like, this is mathematically, same thing with board of directors, everything else. They would always, one thing is they bring up standards, which I was always like, your company's not doing well. You're allowed to fail over and over again. And they would always use the word standards, which was interesting.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And the second thing that was... Someone said to me, if there were a Marsha Zuckerberg, you know, then maybe it would be different. I honestly... There is no... It's getting worse. I don't quite know what to do about it because what they do is they tend to... They tend to reinforce each other. The same thing is happening in AI. The same thing is the next thing.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
They tend to give each other a step up. And I'm not so sure it's... In some cases, it is racism. In some cases, it is sexism. But it's something else that is unsolvable because then they act like they're victims. I mean, Marc Andreessen just said, all these wonderful entrepreneurs have been debanked. I'm like, you're not the ones that's been debanked. It's other people.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
So I still struggle to figure out beyond just calling them racist and sexist, which I don't think is the answer. What is happening? And to solve it... When you try to do that by doing these specialized programs to get people on the same foot, you have these lawsuits, which on some level you can sort of see it, right? It makes sense and they take advantage of this.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Not at all. None of them are. None of them are. Nope, nope, nope. Okay. Anyway, we're here doing things a little differently today with some help from our audience, our beloved audience, our fan base.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
So I wish I had an answer for you. Maybe Scott does. Scott?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
I am. I am. I am. I get stopped all the time. Last night, someone screamed when they saw me in a good way.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Yes, that's true. Coming up, Pivot listeners will be calling in with questions on topics that matter to them, and therefore, they matter to us. And we're going to be highly respectful, Scott Galloway, because our audience are the reason we do this. And we're going to meet the people, Scott, the people who listen to us. They have questions for us. Okay, let's jump right in and get to our first call.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
But that's largely because it's now been attacked, right? That way to solve this problem. And it's going to be, and they're going to win. I hate to say it, but they've been winning all over the place.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Americans do have a vision of themselves. It's like, I got here by my own, whatever it happens to be. What about this ethnic group? And what it does is it pulls people together. A lot of things what Scott is saying is true, because no matter what money you get, whether if you're a woman...
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
or a minority, which aren't minorities anymore, by the way, is, is you get this idea that you somehow got an advantage when all these, I always point out, you all got advantages because of blank. And so, you know, it was, I just had a really interesting interview with Van Latham and Anthony Scaramucci were all together. And it,
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And Anthony said, you know, we all have to now get away from identity and this and that. And so and then we'll all we have to believe ourselves. He think he said something. And I think he really means is that we're not we're not racist. We're the human race. You know, he did that thing. And Van looked at him and said, you first.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Right. Which I loved. And of course, you know, and Anthony got it, which was interesting because he was like, well, I know you think I started. a mile ahead, he goes seven miles ahead. You started seven miles ahead and you want me to catch up. It was the most interesting exchange of people.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
But right now in this country, there is that sense as if you didn't make it because there's something wrong with you, right? That's what the Trump people are doing a lot of and appealing to that American way, including with Latinos and You know, they are getting in for free. They're getting a hotel room and you're not.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
You know, let's shift it to that because they're doing it to immigrants right now, which make the heart of our country. But it really does resonate, unfortunately, with a lot of voters until they understand the inbuilt advantages that a certain group of people get.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right, our first caller. Hello, caller. Who are we talking to and what's your question?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Well, Rodney, you know, it's the human race. It's not race.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right, Rodney. Thank you. Thanks, Karen.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right, Scott Galloway, let's go on a quick break. We come back. We'll take some more calls, including someone named Scott.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Next up, someone named Scott with a K. He has a question about finding work in tech. Go ahead, Better Scott, with a better spelled name. Tell us your name, where you're from, and your question.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Wow, that's a good question. It's been actually covered more than you think. I've read lots and lots of articles. They overhired in the pandemic and then started shedding workers, you know, in terms of doing efficiencies, getting their stock prices up, saving money. I don't know an organization that's not laying off, not just because they're in a painful position,
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
It's because they want to show better results, right? And they realize they can do things. In tech, it's particularly because they just sort of had a gravy kind of way. Let's add some more, whatever. It doesn't matter. And there was a real grab for talent that went on for years and years and years. So this is a group of people that we're used to. constant abundance, right?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Just recently, I'll tell you a couple of things and then Scott can weigh in. AI is going to change everything for everyone and they're realizing they can do a lot more with less. There's not a CEO I've talked to in the last year who hasn't talked about cutting costs staff, like enormously.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
One person was telling me that Scott and I was with, we're not going to name who they are, where they were going to go from 6,000 software engineers to 2,000, 3,000 in a year. They were really looking for efficiencies using AI. And obviously with coding and everything else, that takes out the middle, like right in the They're distressed right now.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
They're doing it out of efficiency, and they like it. And they also saw someone like Elon Musk or others make cuts and have, well, I think there was a discernible difference, but in his case, he was using his platform for something else, which was influence. But they like to see it.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And once people like him did this, they all kind of got the, like, religion in that regard, is we can do this and we can get these people back. And there isn't, except at the highest levels of, say, AI researchers or really high-level people like that, who they consider special, that you're all interchangeable, just like... factory workers were, or blank, blank, whatever, fill in the blank.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Same thing's happening in law, same thing's happening in every single industry where they can replace and use AI or other technologies to do so. And I don't think it's stopping anytime soon. Scott?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Oh, wow. That's a serious question. That's a good one. Scott, shall I start? Who's meowing? Who's that meowing? Oh, I'm sorry.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Let's keep the cat going. It's okay. It's okay. I love a cat. I love cats. Scott only likes dogs. That's how we live with each other. That is a really good question. I think a lot about enough, actually, my whole life. It sounds really weird, but it manifests in kind of crazy ways. I don't like things very much. I like experiences.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Also, lastly, you might have to think about shifting. Like, I think about this has happened to so many other industries in that regard. This is all industries, this is happening. Because they've gotten a taste of blood, these CEOs, they have. And they know they can do just as well with fewer people.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
They don't have to give you, in the case of tech, they don't have to cater to people who aren't the top, top people. They don't have to buy kombucha for all. They don't have to do all the things they did before. for years and years and years. It was borderline ridiculous, you know, dry cleaning, kombucha, food from Cambodia. Like, it was crazy. Google was nuts back in the day. It was fun.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
But you could tell that the bosses didn't love it, didn't love having to cater. And a lot of these employees acted like children, right? Like they were on the land of perpetual everything. And so I think these changes from AI are going to be significant. And again, it won't just be tech people. It will be tech people, but it'll be lawyers.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
I just read a story about breast cancer detection is better by AI by some number that's really, it would matter to a woman who has breast cancer, that's for sure. And you can just see more and more and more of it. And each of those people is a job. But I think what Scott said is absolutely true. You're going to have to just really accept it and try to figure out what the next step is.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And I think it's largely because I grew up with a parent who kept buying things incessantly. And it bothers me. And I don't like buying things. I don't like gifts. It's a real issue for my wife and my family. I don't like things. I'm always trying to rid myself of things. I recycle incessantly, even though it doesn't matter. I know it sounds crazy. I'm very aware of stuff.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Anyway, Scott, we really appreciate it. I think it's absolutely true. And it's mentoring is over. I feel the same way in reporting and everyone feels it.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
He's a design director. That's it. I like it.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Scott with a K. I think you're a more attractive Scott. I don't know what to say.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Anyway, Scott, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right, Scott, let's go to our next caller, Jane, who's an American living in the UK, just like Scott. You're in Edinburgh, right, Jane? Is that correct?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right. What is your question for us?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Well, that is an excellent question, Jane. I did dive into parenthood again. I have older kids who are 19 to 22, and I have two younger kids who are 3 and 5. So yes, I would have if I was 30 again. I'm pretending I'm 30, obviously, and I'm a really, really old parent. I'm double that age. I absolutely would. I have no... You know, I'm not doing it to be apocalyptic.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Some people have kids when they feel things are going terrible. I don't think they are. I believe in the future. I think parenting, I think for both Scott and I, and he'll speak to it, has been the best thing we've done. I think we're both very successful, but I don't think anything matters as much as our kids to us, if you had to really bear it down. It gives you a real...
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
It's something that's so hard that when you do it well, you feel amazing, the accomplishment. When you do a job well, we feel okay. But when we do kids' stuff well, I think we both feel much better as people. I do, at least. My kids kind of miss the big social media thing because Snapchat, they tend to do Snapchat, and I didn't feel as bad about that as other mediums.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
But both my older boys do not use social media. They think it makes you feel bad. They don't even use dating services. They both have girlfriends they met in person at parties. They don't use social media at all. It's hard to get them to look at it. They use YouTube and Reddit because they like recommendations of shows they can watch, so they use it for entertainment, absolutely.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
I always want to throw out toys of my children's. I just feel I'd like to have just a suitcase some days. I really feel funny about it. And I don't think it's a good thing. I wish I was one of those people like, is I have enough stuff and I feel good about it. Instead, it worries me. I know it sounds really nuts, but I touch things and I'm like, oh, this will be around after I die.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
But they don't do doom scrolling or endless scrolling. They do it for programs actually, movies, things like that. With my younger kids, they don't use it. They use it only to watch on the iPad, to watch Frozen for the 109th time. But I will keep, especially my daughter, off of social media probably till 16. I think my kids went on at 13 maybe.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Or they got phones when they were somewhere in that age. But my kids will not be on stuff until much, much later because of the deleterious effects. These tech fuckers don't care. They don't care about safety. I don't care what they say. So, Scott?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
It's not a good thing always.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Get on it. And plus, they'll have a Scottish accent. Get on it. And have boys.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
It's going to be the... Why don't you want to have kids? Why are you worried?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
I just interviewed the mother. I just interviewed the mother on the podcast. It's very upsetting.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
No, actually, it's a really, I urge you to listen to it because she did everything right. Like she was very on her kid on social media. When you listen, you'll be like, oh, this wasn't someone who wasn't paying attention. This was someone who was paying attention. Having children, your greatest worry will be their safety. It's not necessarily online. It's driving. It's other kids. It's drugs.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Like there's so much stuff in this world and it drives me crazy. And I don't think it's, it's not a good thing. But the good part is I don't need a lot. And if I didn't, you know, do okay with, In my job, I think I'd be fine not having very much stuff. I don't value things. Scott?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
I have a friend whose kid bought something online online.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
But you're always thinking about it.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
One of my sons yesterday was vaguely sad over something. And I was like on four alarm fire. It was because of work or something. And we'd had this wonderful dinner just recently. And then I was like, I detected slight sadness and I lost my mind. And I thought, Garrett, get the fucking hold of yourself. But one thing is you're going to be exhausted. I am so exhausted. I can't even tell you.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Yes, I get that. So I was exhausted back then. It's tiring, Jane. Don't let them tell you differently. And it hurts. Let me just, he doesn't know.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Get on it. Anyway, get on it. And then name your kids Karen Scott.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
No, you're not. You were talking about having a daughter all the time.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Oh, okay. You're just poiseful. Anyway, look at how sexist that is. Your boys can take care of you. Anyway, Jane, thank you so much. Thank you, Jane.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Get on it. Any way you want to do it is your way, but you'll never regret a day in your life. You won't. You really won't. Until you do.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Yeah, don't have 12 children like Elon Musk and ignore them. Don't do that. Not the plan.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Oh, it's not. It's not. That's what you're talking to.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
That's good. Anyway, Jane, thank you so much. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll take one more listener call. It has to be the best.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Scott, we're back with our final listener call. Let's talk to Steve in Alaska. Ooh, I like Alaska. Steve, what's your question? Explain yourself to us.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Right. Well, OK, so you're risk averse, right? So you're a little more risk averse than most.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't buy that Bitcoin last year. Yeah. Okay. All right. So I think I'm going to let Scott have this one. The only thing I would say is that you probably should have started earlier. I mean, that's just the way it is. These things compound and everything else. But I'm not an investment expert. Scott is. So I'm going to give this one to him fully. Go ahead, Scott.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Well, one of the things that's important to remember is understand exactly what you need, too. The other part is how much income do you actually need? How much savings do you need? And it's surprisingly a lot less once you start tearing away things. And it doesn't mean living badly, I wouldn't say. But I think a lot of people don't understand how much less they need than they think they do.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
especially if they have good health care, although insurance obviously isn't controversial right now, payments of insurance. But you have to look at both sides of it, not just what money you'll make, what money you have to expend, and where you can live. And so a lot of people are moving different places, they're doing things. So imagine your 70s, where could you live that is
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
based on what you have, right? If you don't have quite enough, where else? And I don't think people think of those options as much as the spending part of what they need versus how much they have to have in the kitty.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Alaska is expensive, I believe. Is it? It is, yes.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Because they got to drag everything up there and everyone's along the coast. And so it's a lot of... I did not know that. Yes, it is. Hawaii, same thing.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Anyway, think about both sides of it when you're doing it. And I don't think people think of that enough and understand what you're spending and like really pay attention to what you're spending now. And I don't mean to be parsimonious, but you'll be surprised how much money you waste. Anyway, Steve, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right. Thanks for listening. We appreciate your being a fan of Pivot and taking time to ask a great question. Scott, isn't it great how our listeners are so smart and so interesting?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Good questions. And they're so interesting as people.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And we do urge people to talk to us. I love when people talk to us. I just love our listeners. I'm sorry. I just love them so much. I think they're so thoughtful. Every time I greet them personally, they have great questions. And we love doing these things.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
In every company, there's a whole system of decision makers, challenges, and strategies shaping the future of business at every level. That's why we're running a special three-part Decoder Thursday series, looking at how some of the biggest companies in the world are adapting, innovating, and rethinking their playbooks.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Why don't you sign it for me? I'll give you my permission.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Anyway, if you've got a question of your own, we're going to do this more because we really, really like it. If you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to send a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. My favorite show of the year. It really is. Please read us out.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And then he met me and thought, I'm totally sated. Yeah.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
We're asking enterprise leaders about some of the toughest questions they're facing today, revealing the tensions, risks, and breakthroughs happening behind closed doors. Check out Decoder, wherever you get your podcasts. This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Yeah, I would agree. It's interesting. So I was just thinking this the other day. It's so funny, Scott. I just had an experience with my son, putting him down for a nap yesterday. And he like touched my face before he fell asleep. And I felt so good. Like that was like a really nice moment that I remember. And I was upset about all the apartment was a mess kind of thing.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
And I was in that mode of too much stuff, right? We have too much stuff. He has too much stuff, too many toys. They had just been fighting over toys, which I can't believe given how many toys they have. And it was just an interesting moment.
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
One of the things Scott was saying about rich people, like right now we're in an era where rich people are getting these jobs they're wholly unqualified for, right? Because of this Trump administration appointments of all these billionaires. And I'm like, why are they getting them over jobs?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
really qualified people and it really sort of makes me sick like the idea of this sort of glorification Scott called it idolatry of the innovator but it's now glorification of the rich people that they're just so stuff is just I don't know and the funny thing is many of those people don't care about stuff either but it's definitely a disease of this culture and it's at some point it's not going to be because we're going to I just you can feel impending doom with all the stuff you know what I mean like I don't know
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Do you have too much stuff? Do you worry about things around you? Me? Christine?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
I mean, the holes are so vast, they aren't going to fill them. And that's, I was literally just thinking this. I was like, you know, I use an expression a lot. They're so poor, all they have is money. And it's a real thing right now because, you know, the idolatry of an Elon Musk or any of these people, there's like 10, 11 billionaires in the cabinet. It does set the tone for this country, right?
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Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
You know, how can these people be the common man? And yet the common man has a massive crush on Donald Trump or whatever. It's just a really interesting dichotomy.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
All right. We're going to have to, Christine, I love you, Chad. This is a really great topic. It's really important. And it's important to think about. And we absolutely do. And we really appreciate it. What a thoughtful question.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Who's meowing? Who's that meowing? Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Thank you so much for listening.
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Thank you. And I steal his T-shirts, too, speaking of which. And they're lovely. She does. Very soft. It's never enough. There you go. She takes my stuff. Well, they're very soft. Okay. All right. Okay. I don't know what to say. Thank you. Bye. Hi to your cat. Okay. Thank you, Christine. Let's move on to our next caller, Rodney. Hello. How you doing?
Pivot
Tech Layoffs, Midlife Investing, and Parenthood in the Age of AI
Good. Tell us about yourself and ask your question.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
What about if it was an economist putting his bra on? That's good. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
No, I don't. I think he is. I think he's taking his, listening to him, I think he's taking his job rather seriously. Oh, I agree. I think he thinks he's the bulwark against this lunatic.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I don't, for what? And for what? Because, you know, I was thinking as I was walking the other day, like, especially listening to that idiot Pam Bondi was, it's like, You know, if the Democrats win in two years, you're all super fucked, like super fucked. You have to win in two years. And of course, they think they will through strong arming.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
But what a risk they're taking because they're going to be investigated out the yingety yang and deservedly so. Anyway, let's move on. Go, Jerome Powell. We're on your side. We think you're behaving correctly. Trump's feud with Harvard is escalating. The White House is asking the IRS to begin the process of revoking Harvard's tax-exempt status.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
This is not an easy thing to do, by the way, but the IRS, because it's under the control of Donald Trump, is reportedly considering it. The move comes after Harvard declined Trump's demands to scrap DEI programs and overall hiring, teaching, and admissions. It made a ton of changes, by the way. It has made a ton of changes. that are probably laudable in many ways.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Trump's initial response to Harvard's pushback was freezing more than $2 billion in federal funds for multi-year grants and contracts apparently wasn't enough.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
The Harvard president, Alan Garber, condemned the Trump administration in an open letter earlier this week, writing, "'No government, regardless of which party is in power, should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue.'" What do you think, Harvard fighting back here is really interesting.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Let me give some statistics. Harvard is gearing up for this fight financially. They issued $750 million of taxable bonds last week to shore up liquidity. It does have a $53 billion endowment, but there are restrictions on how the money gets spent. I see you're wearing a Harvard t-shirt. I can't believe, one of the jokes on threads was, I can't believe we like Harvard again.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Like we're backing Harvard here, which is sort of the pinnacle of, snooty elitism, I think, for most people in general. But at the same time, this is a real shot across, along with MIT, Princeton, Columbia, of course, caved. So it's a really interesting situation happening here with these schools saying, no, fuck, we've done enough, and showing their work.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Now, today, for people who don't know, the Trump administration is trying to do this with no proof whatsoever, very similar to what they did with the migrants who they sent out of the country. with no proof on any, they don't give any proof to their allegations on almost anything they're doing, no matter what, across the spectrum.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And in this case, they filed something without any proof that Harvard did anything wrong. So there's several, and of course, they're hurting funding of really important research that's going on. Scott?
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah. That t-shirt is handsome. Where'd you get that?
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
But you're about making bigger, becoming bigger, not to tell them what to do or how to run their program.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
You have had your researchers going all week. This is fantastic.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And people think it's not enough because they haven't been as involved in AI and it's been taken up by... What happens is private enterprise takes the juicy bits and the parts that are harder, the universities used to do, and they used to do them in combination. And no one else will fund.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
You don't have to make... This is fucking ridiculous. And here it is. Why do you think Harvard decided, and fuck this shit, and Columbia didn't? Think about being inside these places. Yeah.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah, because they were sort of the, like, elite irritants, and now they seem like freedom fighters.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
So we'll see if the IRS does this. It takes years. This is going to go—by the way, everybody, again, it's going to go through lots of courts with the IRS. They're going to try to do this. It will be litigated. And by that time, if Donald Trump is lost— The people who are doing this to Harvard, the IRS, are going to be fucked royally at some point if they make these moves.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
They think that Donald Trump's going to be in power forever. And that may be. But if he's not, you're taking a rather large risk that you're not, all of you aren't going to jail at some point for these behaviors.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
In two years, if the government cuts win, this is just, I like that even more in 20 months. Let me say, it also doesn't help people. It doesn't bring the price of eggs down. This is what we're doing in this tit for tat. And by the way, this tit for tat is going to be required. They have to go down. And it's going to waste everybody's time, what they're doing here. They're going to
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
They're going to do this, they're going to lose, and then they're going to jail. But it's such a waste of time and effort, and Harvard could be doing all kinds of really interesting things in research. Anyway, it's the greatest brand change for Harvard, you're right. I think that's really an important thing, and we'll see if Donald Trump could pull this off.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Just because he's going through stop signs right now doesn't mean he can keep doing it or there will not be consequences later. Okay, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about Elon's creepy harem and legions of babies.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah, did you kiss the ground or kiss the basin? Can you get over how much shit these women are getting? Oh, my God. But can I tell you, I'm sorry to say, deserved. I was trying to see the goodness in it. It's because they won't stop defending themselves when something was just, they should shush.
Pivot
Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Scott, we're back. And Elon Musk is trying to build an army of super babies with, quote, no romance, just sperm. It feels like you would have said something like this, Scott. That's from an explosive report in The Wall Street Journal about the tactics he used to recruit and manage his offspring and their mothers. This romantic hero has even used Social Platform X to recruit willing wombs.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Here's what Jimmy Kimmel had to say about the latest revelations.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
So, another tidbit from the journal's reporting, and by the way, I've spoken about this with so many reporters. I'm so glad that they're finally writing about this and not pretending it's just a silly, you know, an ex who's mad at him. This is really significantly weird stuff.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
and especially since he's in such a position of power, Musk believes population decline is a massive threat and wants to make enough babies to, quote, reach legion level before the apocalypse. And Musk urged former girlfriend Ashley St. Clair, or I don't know what she is, I guess girlfriend, to give birth via C-section because he believes that vaginal births limit brain size.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And also, let me say, they did some stuff for women in STEM, but they're talking about themselves and not... girls and women in tech, especially when people are getting cut. They just need to stop talking.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
You remember I was arguing with him about this, given I had a C-section. Scott, where shall we go with this? Where shall we start? I mean, I'm thrilled that reporters are actually doing these things around the drugs, around these weirdnesses around children. It is really demented in a way that's really around the bend. It's fine if someone wants to have a lot of kids, but this is a whole theory.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I think the one person in this story that didn't get enough shit is Jared Burchall, who works for him and is his facilitator. They wrote about him being a Mormon and talking about him having such a stable family. Jared, if you're facilitating this, you don't get to hide behind your perfect family and that you don't behave like this. You're just facilitating a rich person behaving badly and
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
and manipulating women who are having kids. I mean, everything sounds so pathetic. And at the very, and I'll let you go on, Scott, but the children are really, what really concerns me here is that these kids are getting manipulated by Musk in terms of what they're going to pay the mothers and this and that. You don't need $15 million to raise a kid or anything else. But the ethical implications of
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
All of this, for all of you who are facilitating this for Musk, are rather deep and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Go ahead.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I wonder if someone wrote a book about it out in November.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
But he also, Scott, two things. He loses checks as the control point, by the way. And secondly, listen, there's a pronatalism problem. movement going on, obviously, and he's part of this. He's talking about smarter people, and that reads to me white people, essentially, right? I don't think he thinks all people are equal.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Is that right? I mean, the level of his stepdaughter, I think. Yeah, correct. But here's the thing. It's about white people, more white people. That is, or more people he considers smart, which is, I think, the... I hadn't even thought of that.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I guess that... He did try. He is someone he didn't know online named Tiffany Fong, I believe, so she's Asian. But here's the thing. He thinks his genes are smart. So who isn't smart where there are population increases? Brown people. That is what he is doing here. So I agree. Listen, nobody believes in kids more than me. I'm not the Elon Musk of lesbians.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
The memes are fantastic and they're funny. And I think they're hitting because they're true. Like the one about the best one, I think you, I posted and so did you, was, you know, what happens when a bachelorette party comes into a gay bar? This is the picture. This is what happens. Like a straight lady's like whooping it up and stuff.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Stop being so openly straight and masturbating at all times.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Anyway, nonetheless, he thinks there are smart people and dumb people and all the smart people are not. You know, this has a racial element to it. Let's be clear.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Me and Mike, you're coming to Lesbians Who Tech this year. I went three years ago. You're doing it again. And this year, we're going to kill you and do a ritual sacrifice.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Anyway, Elon, you are a sick puppy. I have to tell you one sick puppy. And I feel bad for these women. I feel bad for these kids. And the story was terrific. The journal that the journal's doing it. is amazing. I have to say, I told, oh, a half a dozen top reporters about this Ashley St. Clair to like, this was really weird what was happening. And nobody followed it.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And the journal did a really good job. I have to say, I have to give them credit. It is not purient. It's they, it's a really, along with their board coverage of how they party with him, along with his strange behaviors. I think the journal's doing amazing journalism here, as is Christian Grind of the New York Times, who was
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Oh, right. Because you gave, we know this. We've talked about this. Sperm donor.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
There are Scott Galloways all over Southern California.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I don't even want to know. I don't even want to know. I don't even want to know. Thank God, not my children. Anyway, here's an idea.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
All right. You know, I didn't pick someone because they had a history of depression in his family. Anyway, here's an idea. There's some hot new real estate about 120 light years from Earth where Elon could go. Researchers announced on Tuesday that they've discovered a massive planet known as K2-18b. I'm going to call it Galloway. Thank you.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Whose atmosphere suggests the possible presence of living organisms. It's really hot and wet. That's really pretty much what's happening.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Don't say anything. Anyway. Just really quickly, NVIDIA says it will start producing AI supercomputers manufactured in the U.S. The announcement comes conveniently after reports of upcoming tariffs. We'll see. The company plans to produce $500 billion of infrastructure in the U.S. via manufacturing partners over the next year. They all say $500 billion. Apple did this.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
They commissioned over 1 million square feet of manufacturing space to build ships in Arizona. Wow. They're working with Foxconn and Taiwan's Wistron on additional plants in Texas, of course. And then Trump said all the necessary permits will be expedited and delivered. They're trying to appease Trump, or I'm sure he'll still screw them on tariffs.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Jensen Wang said, made a surprise visit to Beijing to meet with Chinese trade officials. As follows, NVIDIA is revealing on Wednesday it's taking a $5.5 billion hit thanks to new U.S. restrictions on the exports of its H-20 chips to China. The shares have been plunging very quickly. Thoughts on the planet or NVIDIA?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And they weren't going to do this before. And, you know, just this, you know, you can force manufacturing back in the U.S., but it will have a price later if it's not economic. That's just the way it goes, unfortunately. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Zuck taking the stand and how much he was willing to pay to get the antitrust case to go away.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Scott, we're back with more headlines. There's lots going on. Mark Zuckerberg has taken the witness stand for three days in Meta's antitrust trial this week over its acquisition of Instagram and WhatsApp. Also, Sheryl Sandberg was also on the stand. If the FTC wins, Meta could be forced to sell off the app. Some highlights.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Years before the FTC sued Meta under the Trump administration, Zuckerberg considered having Instagram be its own company to avoid antitrust issues. Meta tried to buy Snapchat for $6 billion, which actually, I think I broke that story at the time. He thinks it would have been bigger now if it accepted the offer. Zuckerberg had, of course, then copied everything Snapchat did.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
For people who don't know, Elle did a cover with them on it.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
It's buy or bury, really, and bury was the choice that, unfortunately, Snapchat had to face. Zuckerman once had a crazy idea to wipe out all Facebook users' friends, to start again. The Meta CEO called TikTok the highest competitive threat for Facebook and Meta. If it were up to Zuckerberg, this trial never would have happened.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
He offered the FTC $450 million, which is laughable, later upping the amount to $1 billion, but the offer was well below the $30 billion the FTC wanted. This is under its current chair, Andrew Ferguson. I don't know. You got to set there, Ferguson. Zuckerberg reportedly felt confident President Trump would back him. Obviously, he didn't. It allowed it to go forward.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
It's not the strongest case, as we've talked about, and this idea of who its competitor is. In the then, it's a strong case. In the now, it's not as strong a case. And everybody has shifted from social media to entertainment in a lot of ways. Social media with a stress on media, not on social. So, Give me, this ask kissing doesn't work. Give me one of your crazy ideas, Scott, here on this trial.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And certain consent decrees also, along with the fine, by the way.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
You see it happen in Los Angeles and parts of your neighborhood. People take a picture in front of.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
There's one area where they're all taking pictures.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And innovation. New things, innovation, innovate. That's the thing. Everyone's going on about Tesla. I'm like, their car sucks and it's not innovative. Did you see the Japanese stuff that's coming out, the EVs? They're so adorable and fantastic. I just keep thinking, why didn't any... Why didn't Tesla do this?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Because he's having lesions of babies and taking ketamine, apparently, and running the government into the ground. But you're right. You're absolutely right. We'll see what happens. People find this to be a very weak case, though, because the limits of who they're... It doesn't address what's happening now, which is intense competition in the social media space.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Again, as I said, emphasis on media. He's trying to get away from the social part of it, by the way, which is really interesting because people aren't doing what Facebook was originally intended for anymore. Now they're consuming just like they did television. There has been a shift, don't you think? Don't you find you're using social media for consumption more than declaration or friendship now?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
But for consumption, you like looking at it, right?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
What about if it was an economist putting his bra on?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I love that. Oh, my God. And I see great Danes.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
That's end times. That's worse than Gail King.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. I do on threads a thing called food porn, which I love, which is they just cook shit all over the place. I love cooking videos. Anyway, we got to get back to the important things. I'm not sure where this case is going, but it sure has a lot of cool emails of them acting like assholes, all of them. Like, we're going to kill this company. We're going to do this.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
This is exactly how they talk in reality. And it's just very entertaining. But one of the things coming out of it is how much Mark Zuckerberg doesn't like his actual business, the social part of social media. That's been really interesting to
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah. We're going to talk about that next week. Because we'll see. I think they're just tweaking. They love to tweak everyone. But yes, they could do that too. Again, consumption. Consumption of videos. That's where they're going to go in the creation and the creativity of people with this stuff. Yeah. This is just in, by the way.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
A federal judge has ruled that Google did act illegally to maintain a monopoly in online advertising technology. The judge said in a ruling that Google had broken the law to build its dominance. No shit, Sherlock. The Justice Department and a group of states had sued Google, arguing that its monopoly in ad technology allowed the company to charge higher prices and take a bigger...
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Portion of the sale, yes, because they're on both sides of the deal, everybody. Remember, a federal judge ruled in August, a separate federal judge, that the company had a monopoly in online search. He is now considering a request by the Justice Department to break the company up, spin parts off.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Google's, this is a much stronger case, and it is so obvious the dominance of Google in both advertising and search. and their behaviors around this. It's really interesting. Of course, Sundar was at the inauguration. It doesn't seem to be helping. Now, a lot of these cases were started in the previous Trump administration. Again, I cannot underscore this. So thoughts on this one?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Way too long. I'm just going to say, I think it's really interesting how much it's stuck. And especially what's really fun is people are having fun with it, one, which I think is funny. And I like that. But it's like very high profile people. Like they're, you know, just a lot of celebrities are like, what in the actual fuck is going on? Which is surprising.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
This one's stronger, and they've lost. They've clearly lost. This will go on. They will appeal, but they've lost again, once again.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah. The person who replaced him is very well, Gail, I think it's Slaughter or Slater, is very well respected. She's a J.D. Vance person from the J.D. Vance side of the aisle who has been very antitrust focused. Great respect for people, like in terms of They understand. Here's the thing, everybody. Less competition, less innovation, higher prices, shittier products. That's the way it goes.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
By the way, the side effects of both these companies for their dominance in both social media and advertising and search, which they're all linked to advertising, is the death of regular media. Two of these two companies have run over Now, look, media, old media has done a lot of things to kill itself.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
But this is not the hollowing out of the business model by these companies using these tactics has been right in there to really hurt these companies. So that's another that's another, you know, deleterious effect of these things. Anyway, we'll be right back and we'll get to predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's a prediction from you?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Besides children of Scott all over Southern California. Are you creating a legion of babies?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And the problem is you don't know if it's— I'm absolutely going to do this now so I can meet all of Scott's children.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah, but you have like hundreds of kids. You remember the Vince Vaughn movie where he had hundreds of kids?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
They usually keep quiet about each other. You know what I mean? They really do. But a lot of people who don't are saying things. Some are doing really funny things. Like the woman who's in Hacks, who plays, she's amazing. She plays a manager. I'm blanking on her name. She did this whole fake space flight. Everyone's really being creative.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Oh, my God. That's the typical fear thing, the fear thing.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I know I've used those sites because I saw other how many other kids my sons are related to.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I feel like I want to go find all your children. Yeah.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I'm going to make a documentary searching for Scott.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yes, let's start a Vox Media podcast with Scott Galloway.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I know, it's so fucked up. Let's hear a prediction.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I predict this will be disastrous. And then they can marry all of Elon Musk's kids. Anyway, sorry. Prediction.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
He does feel like declare war on everyone, doesn't he?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
But it strikes at a chord of something that is, and especially, I think it is when they're saying it's sexist to say it's a ride. I think this is what Gayle King said. It's sexist to say it's a ride. When Alan Shepard did it, when she did the Alan Shepard.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
They came for me, right, that guy?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah. Although, Scott, in the short term, Chris Krebs has to leave his company because he got targeted by Trump and he's fighting it.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
That's who she was comparing it to.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
That AOC thing continues, although there's so much hostility towards her. It's really fascinating for some Democrats.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Like, this was the 60s, Gail. This was hard. This was dangerous back then. And more dangerous, obviously. It's always dangerous to go up in space. But the fact that they're pretending it's feminist when it's not feminist is anti-feminist, right? That's the thing, is...
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I like your prediction. I hope it's true.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah, and, you know, interesting, Josh Shapiro, who got attacked on Passover, his house, who's the governor of Pennsylvania, Trump has yet to call him, which is really an astonishing thing. Of course, if there was a Tesla in the driveway, he certainly would call it terrorism. But, of course...
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I don't know. Marco Rubio keeps making stupid arguments. They're trying to say this guy who's in El Salvador is M13 with no proof.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yes, he does. But we'll see. We'll see. From your mouth to all your legions of babies.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
I don't know. I think it'll take longer than you think. It'll be more damaging. I think he will have damaged and wrecked people's lives in the process.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah, I think he's going to keep doing it. I think until the midterms, and if the Democrats win, he's in for a world of pain for the rest of his life. That's where I think it is. Anyway, that's a great prediction, Scott, by the way. And as I said, from your lips to your legions of babies' ears.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Elsewhere in the Scott and Kerry universe, Scott, you just had a big interview with Canada's new prime minister, Mark Carney. Very nice get. You chatted about a lot of things, including Canada's role in changing world and whether the US-Canada relationship can be fixed as trade tensions rise. Obviously, Scott is a particular friend of Canada and they love us there. Let's listen to a clip.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Oh, Scott, you probably weeped, didn't you?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Oh, very nice. He's an impressive, and by the way, incredible turnaround in Canada for the liberals. Like this weird little conservative was going to win, and now he looks like he's going to lose. Pierre Poivre.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
We'll see if he wins. We'll see. But anyway, that looks like that's the case. It was a good interview, Scott. I listened to it. It was terrific. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
The rich need to stay quiet. That's what I feel like. Like, shut up.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
You know, it's really interesting because, you know, this White House correspondence dinner is happening next weekend. And one of our friends, I don't think I'm supposed to say who said it, but said one of the problems with it is that the sort of prostrating before administrations thing has always been an issue. Like they go and they yuck it up with their sources kind of thing.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And it has a real bad feel to it. Why not invite real journalists? If it's about the First Amendment, that dinner, instead of trying to, like, hustle to get a good celebrity at your table, like, that's what the press does. It tries to outdo each other and celebrity gets.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Get real journalists from across the country and, you know, from small towns and everywhere else doing things and celebrate them at the dinner. Like, that's the kind of thing that... That the sort of the people that really do labor in very difficult circumstances aren't getting the attention when all these other people are like just like performing in front of us and sort of stick.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
It is sort of one of the best lines would let them eat space, which is.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Let them eat space. That's good. And I was like, ugh. And I want you to stop defending it. You realize I was awkward. We get it. We should have given a bunch of money to women and girls. We should have talked about the inequities.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And even there was the Breakthrough Awards that Silicon Valley does every year, another celebrity fest where the rich people give money to various and sundry scientists and stuff like that. Seth Rogen made a comment that was really true about rich people, and they cut it out of the feed. They cut it out of the feed. Seth Rogen, who's so funny. That kind of stuff.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn more at chevy.com forward slash Equinox EV. The manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees, and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
They can't even make fun of themselves. It's a really weird time. Can I add something else? We're going to move on because we've got a lot to get to, including Trump versus Harvard, which I know you see you're wearing a Harvard shirt. Elon's harem, obviously. Zuck on the stand and a bunch of stuff. But
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Just briefly, what was super funny is that the disconnect is really real and people are trying to figure out a way through it. And I went out to dinner last night. I took my mom out to dinner with a bunch of my friends and we're coming out of the restaurant and one of our Pivot fans stopped us. And she worked for Pat Murphy and her boyfriend said, I work for Kristen Gillibrand.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
And my mom was there in her wheelchair. And my mom's son goes, like that, right? Because it's Kristen Schiller. And the woman goes, oh, you're the fox mother. You're the fox mother. You're lucky. And it was so funny and tried to get... So humor is a good way to do it. I know it sounds crazy.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
We were in hysterics and mom was even laughing because everyone was doing their little performative part, but it was actually true. And so I The thing I do like about this whole space thing is humor. Like, there's humor here.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Which is funny. Anyway, I just... That's the only part. They need to, like, stand down or shut up. Stand down, laugh at themselves, or shut up. That's my feeling. Anyway, let's go first, because a very important thing, President Trump has lashed out again at Fed Chair Jerome Powell, saying Powell's termination cannot come fast enough. The attack comes...
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
A day after Powell warned that tariffs could create a challenging scenario for the central bank as it decides whether to control inflation or support economic growth. I mean, that's like the calmest thing. Challenging scenario is like a calm way of saying, you know, man the barricades.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Let's listen to what Powell said exactly about the Fed's independence to speaking at the Economic Club of Chicago.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Powell's term ends in May 2026. Oh, God, I'm so nervous about that. So he keeps threatening to fire him, and he's done it at the FTC, which had a level of independence, and he just does it. Obviously, he's doing it with everything, like whether it's Harvard, or we'll get to that in a second. Do you have much confidence in staying power of the Fed's independence in the Trump administration?
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
He's doing it at the Justice Department. Pam Bondi has lost her ever-loving fucking mind, by the way, speaking of which, her appearances this week have been embarrassing. Can you talk a little bit about what happens here? Because he just runs through stop signs like no problem whatsoever.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Sure, but let me, what is, Powell's termination cannot come fast enough because he, his job terminates next May. So that, is he meaning that? What is, what is the language here, termination? Sure.
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That's the problem. I mean, saying things like this, by the way, are so dangerous. Just saying them, what he's doing, is so ridiculous.
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Elon’s Harem, Trump v. Harvard, and Zuckerberg on the Stand
Yeah. And I think that's exactly the term that's correct. I think Powell is really just like, fuck you. Like, come at me, sir, essentially, the way he's talking.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
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All right. Perspectives, different perspectives. I agree. I think that's fine. I think that's great. But let me just read. Oliver Darcy wrote a column that I thought was perfect, actually. The harm, of course, isn't just that Newsom is failing to challenge his guests as they lie about important topics to a sizable audience.
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It's that he's actively contributing to the normalization of extremists by treating them as serious policy thinkers and instead of dangerous right-wing talkers who have caused immense damage to our country. Figures like Bannon, Kirk, and Savage aren't merely conservatives with different policy views.
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They're performers whose platforms are built on deliberate deceptions, dangerous lies, and hostility towards basic democratic principles. By inviting them onto a show without seriously challenging their rhetoric, Newsom has introduced these dishonest figures to new audiences, and he's done it while portraying them as serious voices who deserve respect and consideration.
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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
Now, he also goes on, I'm going to finish this part, is Newsom's friendly approach also represented a possible missed opportunity. Real dialogue across political divides can have value, but only when there's actual accountability. Hard-hitting questioning, challenging of false narratives, and yes, fact-checking would have made for interesting show.
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Imagine how Jon Stewart or John Oliver would have interrogated the positions of these two these far-right wing personalities. Had Newsom engaged in this style of interview, his podcast would have served a valuable purpose, exposing rather than amplifying dishonest media figures. It would have been far more interesting than watching him bro it up with MAGA World.
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And he did come to the same conclusion. It's a move that frankly suggests he values his own political future more than holding some of the world's most toxic media figures accountable for their corrosive impacts on society. In his sense, this podcast revealed quite a lot about his character that he's willing to do in the pursuit of power. I really hate to say that, but I would agree with that.
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You know I like when there's debates across things, but these are unreliable and disingenuous people that are doing things to advantage And this is what Jess and I argued about when you guys were staring at us, because you spend all your time solving the lie, and then you don't actually have a discussion.
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How you doing, Scott? I just saw you last night when we were together.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
It was fun. Did you like it? They love us together there on Anderson Cooper.
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I like when Pete Buttigieg goes on Fox News. I like when Newsom was doing that. You know when he did a good job? Ron DeSantis. That was a really interesting debate, okay? Because he pushed back thoughtfully. I don't mind thoughtful discussions. In fact, a lot of journalists have interviewed Steve Bannon. I get it. I get why you should do it.
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The jocular stuff and pretending those things, these people specifically specifically do these things as a way to manipulate people. They aren't doing it. They're doing it not because of their beliefs. They're doing it to tickle MAGA in some way. And I just think if you are going to do this, then act like you did with Ron DeSantis. Show some preparation.
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Anyway, we had a beautiful time, and it was very nice to see you. It was very good to see you.
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I don't expect him to be a journalist, but I don't expect him to pretend this never happened. And that's what these things are.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
Right. I don't think he shouldn't. What I do think he should do is do the job he did before. And I was perplexed as to why it was like all joking, all joking. Oh, don't we all get along? And I think some of these people, particularly Bannon, is... I think about whether... I would do an interview with him or not.
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And as part of me, you know, I think I made the joke, you know, is it good to ask, you know, like, because he's warring with Musk. So everyone's like, oh, you should talk to him.
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We've seen a lot of each other, Roots South by Southwest.
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I don't know if that's enough common ground to really have anything that's thoughtful in any way, because you're constantly spending your entire interview fixing the lie and then the conversations about the lie versus actual policy debate.
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Yeah. Yeah. Are you tired of me?
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
That's all I wanted. That's essentially—when he did the dissension, when he goes on Fox, I don't think he's hostile. I think he's having a great conversation, actually. I don't think he's like, gotcha. I just was like, what happened to that Gavin? Like, what in the world happened? And when he announced this, I thought, great idea. You do very well in those environments.
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And the conversations must be had. But this was, I just don't know what he's up to here because it's not the guy who goes on Fox News. It's not the guy who wades into people he disagrees with. I do know California does need this funding from the Trump administration. I see that he has to be a little more solicitous of these people. But at the same time, and he kind of wants to denuder them
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before he runs. And so he doesn't get all the flack that they may they will inevitably aim at the next Democratic presidential nominee.
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I kind of like that. That's perfect.
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We do. I do. But I do wish he had done what he had done with DeSantis and others, and he's not doing that here.
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He should also have left-wing figures he disagrees with. Anyway, apparently they won't go on. He told me they won't go on.
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Yeah, I like her a lot. She's unusually tall. I didn't realize that until she got up.
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No, I don't. No, I don't in any way.
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You know how to get me out of a conversation by making a ridiculous remark about the sexiness.
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People would love me, Cara. They would have barbecued you on the outback by then. You would have been gone on the outback. Okay, Scott, let's take a quick break. Now you know how to get me out of a conversation. When we come back, Trump's chaotic tariffs.
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Yeah. She's a tall gal. Anyway, are you tired? I made Scott come early to work today because I'm going on The View.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
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They'll handle the whole transition for you. No tech expertise required. Just visit kinsta.com slash pivot to get started. That's K-I-N-S-T-A dot com slash pivot. Scott, we're back with the ongoing tariff whiplash. The EU and Canada announced billions of dollars in retaliatory tariffs on Wednesday after President Trump's levies on steel and aluminum went into effect.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
The markets continue their rollercoaster ride, fluctuating with all the tariff pivots, speaking of pivots, which you and I called red light, green light on Anderson Cooper last night. But steadying slightly with positive inflation report, but people are still expecting inflation to rise.
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I'll note we're recording this Thursday morning, so Trump may change his mind on tariffs several more times before our listeners hear this. We'll get into recession concerns, which I'm calling Trump session in a bit. But what do you think will happen next? What do you think about these tariffs over the last few days? Are markets overreacting or are they getting it right?
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The Wall Street Journal reported on a closed-door gathering of CEOs this week at the Business Roundtable where an impromptu poll was taken about the economy. Oh, this was the Jeffrey Sonnenfeld one. 22% said stocks would have to fall 30% before they would take a stand. Jamie Dimon finally did after saying Trump's get over it on the tariffs is now saying this is a bad thing. Start with tariffs.
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You know how you get a lot of attention? You jump up and down to the stage in Austin. I have had that picture sent to me so many times. Oh, that was magic.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
Yeah, I know, but I was sitting there going, sit down, sit down, sit down. I've gotten that picture sent to me. Like, what is going on here?
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Boom, boom. Professor Galloway gives you his lecture in class. Even worse than this?
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Oh, wow. That was a lecture. I just felt like I was macroeconomics back in college right now. That was a macroeconomics professor. Thank you, Professor Galloway, for that cogent analysis. It sucks is what I would say.
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No, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. That's wrong. No, that's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong. Listen, let me, I will give a much shorter thing. I was on the Amtrak train when the people were coming back from the business round table to New York and all of them were insulting Trump. Every one of them, even if they don't speak out, they all said, what a fucking idiot.
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This uncertainty sucks. And they were all insulting it and saying, what do we do now? Second, because they talked too loud on an Amtrak train, all these men, they were all men. And then secondly, a CEO of a very big public company that is going to be affected by tariffs, and I'm not going to say what it is, I said, what are you going to do now? What are you going to do now?
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And he said, pass it on to consumers. I was like, thought so. It is going to hurt his business. He was like, I'm going to have to pass it along to consumers, there's no other way. It's going to affect his business across the globe, absolutely. It was like, we don't know what to do, so we're going to do anything.
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It's going to affect everyone along with the cuts in government, the non-scalpel like cuts in government, which would hearten people, the across the board cuts where you don't know where it's going to happen with crazy Elon with a chainsaw. Same thing. Nobody knows because there's, you know, it's interesting because the Department of Education cuts, everyone's like, oh, it's not useful.
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How about, what would you like for Christmas?
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They mostly have privatized much of their research and studies and stuff that's actually somewhat useful to know if things work or not, different testing and things like that. That's all been privatized, so that's going to have second and third order effects, and mostly across the country, not in Washington. And so, although Washington is also going to be affected, so the effects are everywhere.
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And so that's why there's been a lot of talk of recession lately, which I call a Trump session. I'm going to keep saying that word until it catches on, like Bidenomics. Though Trump is dancing around that language. Let's listen to what he told Fox Business's Maria Bartiromo earlier this week. By the way, Kara Swisher is not a fan of Maria Bartiromo when asked about the possibility of a recession.
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No, I don't think so. But I did get that picture sent to me and asked me what was happening. And I said the typical day in the life of Pivot.
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This issue has been a real hair up his ass, the idea that tariffs will work. He's way back in the Smoot-Hawley days. But Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick had a different take on tariffs and recession in an interview with CBS News. Let's listen.
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I now know why this guy is not respected on Wall Street when he opens his mouth. He's such a clown. He's a suck-up to Trump because he's finally relevant. He goes around talking about how he's best friends to Trump in Washington, all over the place. He is the thirstiest public official I've ever seen. And it's because he's not beloved on Wall Street.
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That's right. Okay. Yeah. It just takes away all fear. Let me think. I'm comfortable with being unfunny. Interesting.
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And secondly, he's spewing nonsense, just nonsense out of his mouth.
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So do you think a recession's likely at this point? Because again, with this fell in charge, I mean, I'm thinking Gina Raimondo is so smart and this guy is so dumb, like actually dumb. Like I think he, when macroeconomics was taking place, he was the one sleeping behind me, the dude sleeping on the desk behind me. That's what it feels like. He's not paying attention. to almost any obvious thing.
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And you're right, when we did some of these trade deals, we didn't think of the effects here enough and figured out how to retrain and get people into new jobs and things that were more competitive and figure out what advanced manufacturing we could do here with our population and et cetera, et cetera. This is an opportunity for China.
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So do you, you know, and the second thing is people worried about their 401ks and portfolios during this volatility. I mean, do you think there's going to be a recession, very briefly? And then what would you say to people with the stock market? Warren Buffett looks like a genius. Tariffs suck. I'm in cash. Look who looks like he is the goat. He should be president, but anyway.
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What would you do, you know, you're in the stock market, just leave it alone.
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Well, those pictures will endure. That's the good thing.
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Death decisions are the metaphor of my life. You know that. That's what I always do when I'm deciding what to say and do.
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Yeah, excellent, excellent advice. Professor Galloway, this was a very professorial. I used to fall asleep in macroeconomics.
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I was like this. I used to do that. It was at 8.10 in the morning. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. We'll be back to chat about Trump and Elon hawking Teslas at the White House. Support for Pivot comes from Brex. This goes out to all you finance folks. There's a lot of pressure these days to save money and that's important. But the best finance leaders focus on more than that.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
Scott, we're back with our second big story. The beautiful bromance of Elon and trust continues. That's from our producers. The rest of us worry about dismantling of our government. President Trump is focused on a very important task, promoting sales of Teslas. After posting on True Social Tuesday morning, he said he would buy a Tesla to support Musk. I bet he hasn't.
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Trump welcomed Elon and a fleet of Teslas to the White House. The president had a cheat sheet of notes and kudos to that photographer who got that picture in his hands while praising the company. Let's listen to what he thought when he sat in one of the cars. And by the way, he hates EVs. He said he actually hates EVs. He doesn't drive, et cetera, et cetera. So this was why this was precious.
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As you know that Steve Jobs essay that he did, actually it was a speech that he did at Stanford I read all the time. I recommend it to everybody. It's all about living.
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He hasn't ever been inside a car in like a long time. I mean, a car that looks like that. Tesla stock is down 26% in the last month, the time of the taping. It had a bump from Trump, but most people, there were two analyst reports showing that Tesla's in real trouble, that are taking the stock price down quite considerably, although it's hard to bet against Tesla because of stunts like this.
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Scott, did you know that there's a computer in a Tesla? Just what the fuck? What do you think of this stunt?
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No percent down, whatever. Yeah, yeah.
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I think he's uninterested in Tesla. I think he's uninterested in Tesla anymore. I don't know what else. because they haven't innovated on the product. I know everybody sort of looks at the polarization that he's created, and he's repulsing his customers, and he's not going to attract the ones who like him now, right? They may like him, they're not going to buy his car.
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They might, I mean, they might, I guess, but I doubt it. Sean Hannity supposedly bought one, whatever, and he's like, it goes fast. I was like, these are good cars. That said, you know what? I complained again to Dara Khosrowshahi. I was like, I just ordered an Uber Black and a Tesla showed up and they're still not luxury cars. Now I'm making the argument to him, it's not a luxury car.
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It's very tinny and a bumpy ride. And if I wanted a luxury car, send me an actual luxury car if I'm paying for it. But that said, I think it was pathetic. But now, interestingly, if support... doesn't do what Elon was hoping in the long term, which was at least stabilize Tesla shares, which are drifting down. I suspect they're going to be drifting down again.
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No, he didn't invent the phone.
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It's not the only way the president is attempting to help him. Trump also said he would label attacks against Tesla dealerships domestic terrorism. Nobody likes these attacks. These are stupid. They're allowed to protest. And the fact that he's trying to link regular protests with
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Domestic terrorism is ridiculous, but attacking, you know, charger facilities, et cetera, is just violent, is what it is. It's not terrorism. It's just obnoxious and illegal, and those should be arrested. And Elon Musk is paying back the favors. He reportedly plans to give $100 million to President Trump's political operation that Trump can control rather than Musk.
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During the election, Musk donated over $250 million to his pro-Trump super PAC that he controlled. He made up that $100 million in the rise in Tesla stock. after Trump did this infomercial. But it feels so pay to play. It's like so right in front of you. And I agree, Biden should have included a Tesla in that particular event at the White House.
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That is true. You used to be his defender. Yeah, I did. You're right. I agree with you. I did. Well, I was mostly attracted to that he was focused on important things. I was so tired of people... You know, you're right. I was. There's no way out of it. There was. There was. But I think I'm more than made up for it. I feel like I'm more than made up for it.
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And, you know, someone was arguing that presidents always promote different American products, but not like this. This was like, it was, plus he didn't know how cars worked, which would have made him seem older and more like an old man in my I think that also was weird. His discomfort inside of a car felt very, I don't know, it gave me like a Biden feel, like a doddering old man kind of.
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And I think he is much more vibrant, obviously, than Biden. Any other thoughts about this money that's going back and forth between these two?
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You know, it's interesting because there is a point to be made that, you know, other politicians are getting paid under the table and this is explicit, but it's gross no matter how it happens. And it doesn't look like it's about the products, right? It never... It's not about what's best, it's who can pay me the most.
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We're not focused on making things that are good, we're focused on who knows the money. We all know that about American politics, but it's not implicit or explicit, it's grotesque is what it is.
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I know. I'm catching up. Anyway, we got a lot to get to today. I'm in New York, as I said. I'm picking up my mom. And then I'll go back down to Washington. I've been in Washington for a little while, but.
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You could call your kid Swisher. You want to change the kid's name to Swisher?
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Totally. I don't even know how much that cost. That probably cost, like, it's the amount of money this guy just throws away of taxpayer money, like on golfing or his dumb military flights of immigrants that are overpriced, and then does this. You know, it's just ridiculous. And, you know, and the only person that benefited was Elon Musk with the stock going up.
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And somewhere, somehow, there's money in Trump's pocket every time.
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Yeah, I agree. Now that you really don't want to own a Tesla. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
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Tariff Turmoil, Trump’s Tesla Ad, and Newsom’s Bannon Interview
We have a lot to get to today because Washington is where the action today is because of the market chaos from the Trump tariffs and the Tesla stunt at the White House, the car sale at the White House. We've got a lot to talk about. But first, Amazon announced this week that seven seasons of Donald Trump's reality show The Apprentice will soon be streaming on Prime Video.
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Okay, Scott, let's hear your prediction and just say you thought that they're going to break up. Do you still think that? You said Doe should be over and Elon would be gone. But let's hear your prediction first.
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This follows Amazon paying a reported $40 million to license, not even own, license a Melania Trump documentary. Trump's cut of the new streaming deal hasn't been revealed, but he was an executive producer on the show, and he actually is well compensated when it was shown.
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And guess what country has alternatives? China. And Jeff Bezos is working on things. To Starlink. Now, Starlink is dominant at this point, and he keeps saying there's no other alternative. He said that about Tesla. There's other alternatives. There's going to be other alternatives. And then he is... up the creek without that proverbial paddle. You're right. I agree with you.
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Interesting prediction. We'll see. There is a staying power. There's a weird relationship happening between these two, though, that he stays there, that he's at the White House, the kids around. There's something much different here, but I would agree. He almost teared up when he was talking about the money he was losing.
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Even the world's richest man doesn't like to lose tens of billions of dollars on any one day.
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That's the Scott Galloway message.
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No. As Starlink. Starlink's a superior product. And by the way, Tesla was a superior product, but he hasn't improved it. And again, as I say over and over again, a lot of people are banning Tesla because they're repulsed by Elon Musk, but they have not innovated their product.
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If you have a great product, and in this case, it's the repulsiveness and the danger if you go with him in this case, and that's why Europe is going to abandon him. And so is Canada, as Canada has. It's not just that. And there's going to be plenty of competitors in the Starlink business very soon.
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Netflix also just made a deal with Tony Hinchcliffe, the comedian who sparked controversy with that racist joke at Trump rally last April. October about Puerto Ricans. Talk to me about this. I watched all these seasons of The Apprentice. I can see why you would buy this because he's the president, he's popular with half the country. I like the show, so I get it.
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All right. We'll see. I'd be interested. That would be great. And then they can go to Mars and it'll be great for them to do that. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Scott, that is the show. When are you going back to London soon at some point?
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What are you up to? I'm moving my mom to Washington, as I told you. I'm picking her up today. Yes. Then I will be in DC, but then I'm actually going on a little vacation myself.
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Puerto Rico with three of my four children. We're going and we're going to have a little L-U-K time and be in Puerto Rico, which should be a state as far as I'm concerned. I'm excited. Amanda loves it. And so we're going to go there.
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I love Puerto Rico. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful place. It's a really nice place. And it's in these United States and people should go there. People should go to all the places that were sort of hit by hurricanes too. I like going to places that are in the United States and also deserving of our attention. Anyway, I'm not a big vacationer, so I'm excited to- I'm going.
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Yeah. Okay. All right. All right, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Read us out.
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I'm surprised that it wasn't available. widely, I don't recall looking for it. And I don't know why you'd watch it again, necessarily. The Tony Hinchcliffe I get, they're going to invest in all these things like this going forward. And they're going to be behind the times because the ones you want to get are the Bill Burrs or whatever, which they already have, of course.
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But what do you think of these programming moves?
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Absolutely. In that case, yes.
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Yeah. I was not expecting this, this India move. This is really interesting. I would agree. The Melania thing, it feels like such grift. I mean, they don't own it. The money is ridiculous. They're not going to get the watching out of it. I mean, it's wild. It's whack. It's a bribe. That felt like a bribe. The Washington Post thing certainly did, and it continues to do.
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By the way, they lost their very excellent head of public relations there in communications left, who's a pro. So many people are leaving there. Ruth Marcus, also a columnist, great columnist, one of their most popular columnists left. when they spiked a piece that was mild at best, which she published in The New Yorker. She's been there forever. She was there when I was at The Washington Post.
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The Apprentice, I'm going to say it's a reasonable enough decision, I guess, for that one. But you're right. It looks like payments to Donald Trump in some fashion or ways to get an advantage with him in some way, especially at Amazon, all told. Yeah.
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Support for Pivot comes from Arm. Have you ever wondered what's powering your smartphone or the other devices we interact with daily? And what lies at the heart of life-saving drug discoveries and robotic surgeries? The answer is Arm. Arm technology is moving the world forward, enabling AI to create a more meaningful, more connected life for everyone, everywhere.
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Yeah, I think that's a great idea. What I was sort of yelling about last week is that they're not getting their advantage through innovation and products. They're getting their advantage through access. And that's a bad sign. It's a bad sign for an industry. It's a bad sign that this is where they're putting their focus and not on what they're making.
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And it looks like pigs at the trough is what happens. Anyway, it's not a surprise, but... I'll be interested to see how The Apprentice does. Actually, I really like The Apprentice as a program, although I knew it was all cooked. It was like watching wrestling. And apparently he was handed every single remark he made on The Apprentice. People who worked there told me that.
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I don't know how it would be interesting now. It'll feel like such a throwback. I'm going to watch a couple of them to see because I did watch them all and I really enjoy them at the time. But then when you go back and watch things you used to watch, you're like, how in the world did I ever watch that? Like Three's Company.
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Go do that for a little test for yourself and you'll be like, oh my God, this is not keeping up.
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Yeah, you did. Anyway, don't watch that show. You won't feel good. I don't think you can get it. Maybe Amazon will buy it.
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I know, I have a hard time with ads now, it's weird. When I see them on the show, I was up late last night watching Hobbs and Shaw, but they kept having commercials and I didn't know what to do. I was like, what do I do now? Why am I waiting for this? Anyway, speaking of things that are perplexing to me, and I know Jess yesterday liked it, but I have a new argument against what she said.
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California Governor Gavin Newsom had none other than Steve Bannon on his podcast saying, The two kept up a reasonably friendly tone, and Newsom didn't push back when Bannon claimed Trump won the 2020 election. He did the same with Charlie Kirk and Michael Savage and things they said that were just absolute nonsense lies, really, essentially.
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And didn't mention, for example, Kirk's—he has a wide range of terrible things he's said. that are really just awful. Their hour-long conversation was mostly focused, this abandoned one, on economic issues and areas of common ground. One of those areas, Elon Musk. Let's listen to a clip.
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Arm believes the future isn't about technology. It's about people and the possibilities technology can offer us. The future is built on Arm. You can discover more at arm.com slash discover. I got to get dressed for Whoopi Goldberg. You know who's on right after me? Donny Osmond.
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Newsom isn't the only one making podcasts this week. Former First Lady Michelle Obama has launched a video podcast with the Obama's media company, Higher Ground. It's with her brother. The podcast IMO, which will focus on, it's in my opinion, on thoughtful conversations about life, is co-hosted with her brother, Craig Robinson.
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The Newsom one, and I texted him about it, I had a lot of problem with because I understood his need to talk across the aisle with people. First of all, there's a lot of people he could talk to that don't constantly lie, and his first three guests are really problematic in that regard. But if you're going to do that, you have to address that.
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the real differences and not debate them, but point them out, factual inaccuracies. And his sort of jocular tone is not, I found it, I feel like it's just a political, he's doing it only for politics and to reach out to MAGA voters, perhaps. I'm perplexed by the entire endeavor and said so to him. What are your thoughts?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Yeah, so we have to offer positive things going forward. I agree with you. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, President Musk takes center stage in the Oval Office.
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How you doing, Scott? What's going on?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Scott, we're back. Elon Musk joined President Trump in the Oval Office on Tuesday to discuss his work on Doge. I'm going to call it Doggy from now on. I'm not calling it Doge. Doggy. He gave a very casual explanation of what he's been up to. Let's listen.
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I just bought a beverage refrigerator.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Actually, in the best interest of Elon Musk, according to a lot of reporting, by the way, a lot of these cuts have to do with his businesses and a lot of these attacks are mostly around things that affect him. He said he speaks to Trump almost daily and checks with him before making decisions. Meanwhile, Trump signed an executive order giving Doggie even more power.
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The order requires the Doggie team, I like saying it like that, to be stationed at every government agency to oversee hiring decisions now and will only allow agencies to hire one employee for every four that depart. Aside from that, that was the weirdest visual I've ever seen. His four-year-old was there looking what Elon used to call this kid a cute prop. And that's what it was.
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We renovated our house. We're moving back in. And I thought, I need a beverage refrigerator in my little pod room. I created a pod room. You know that?
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And he kept talking to the president who seemed out of it. Elon was casually dressed, sort of dressed. pontificating, saying, so what if he made mistakes about the gauze of condoms? Who cares? He makes mistakes. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. And Trump looked like he was drugged or something. But I don't know. How were your thoughts on that?
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Oh, no, don't make kid jokes. Keep it out. Keep it out. Even Grimes was like, that kid should not have been in public, you think?
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Oh, my God. Okay. All right. Okay.
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Talk to me about this. That's true. Yes, he did. You're right.
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I have my own home pod studio like you. I'm trying to keep up with you.
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Well, he's called it that.
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Yeah, but I got one of those old retro ones, and it's blue. What do you think?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
See, I did not. I had an exact opposite. I was like, what is going on here? This is so strange with a kid saying things to Trump. I mean, a lot of people put words in the kid's mouth. One was, you need to shush now.
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I'm not even going to go. He was talking to the president, saying something. He was saying something. And the kid shouldn't have been there. It's such a weird thing to do that. And I don't care. You can attack me all you want. This is not an appropriate place for a kid, largely for the kid's sake, not for you shouldn't have kids at work or whatever. It's just it's weird. It's weird.
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And the kid is going to suffer for it. No, I don't. I'm going to make that parenting. declaration right now. And his own mother said the same thing, by the way. But whatever, Musk wants to do it and he gets to do whatever he wants. It was disrespectful to the office of what they were doing. I still believe that. I still believe in that, even if you don't or people don't, I do.
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Secondly, I thought Trump looked old next to Musk and it looked like Musk was running the government. I thought that's the visual I got out of it. But maybe that was
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Sure is. So why was he sitting down and just looking out of it and saying nothing?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
It's not Smeg, actually. Frigidaire. Someone bought the Frigidaire name and it has Frigidaire across it in that script. I'm very pleased. I'm very pleased with my refrigerator. I love a refrigerator. I've always had beverage refrigerators and my kids have too. I think it's important. I have one in San Francisco. I had a whole mine upstairs too. Anyway, we have a lot to get to today.
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Yeah, you're focused on the kids. I'm focusing on Elon. I agree. This kid should not have been there.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
It was weird. It was just a weird thing. And I thought Trump did look aged. I don't think he looked powerful. I thought he looked like the kid and he were just overplaying with blocks over here and Elon was running the government. Anyway, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has some harsh thoughts about Elon Musk after his bid for the company.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
There's a lot of legal back and forth this week, by the way, about this. There's a lawsuit and then Musk made a bid, which seems like a fake bid. Either it's a fake lawsuit or a fake bid. I can't tell. But let's listen to Sam Altman.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
The backhanded compliment. Well done, Sam. In court filing, OpenAI has said the bid contradicts legal claims Musk made in a lawsuit against the company last year. In fact, it does. Musk now says he's willing to drop the bid if OpenAI remains a nonprofit. By the way, there are emails where Musk indicates he wanted it to be a profit. So he's just, whatever works for him, he says at the time.
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As of Tuesday, Altman told employees the board hadn't received an official offer from Musk, which is probably true. I'm going to believe Altman here over Musk. You know, he's just trying to slow him down. That's what it seems like.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
He'll say whatever it takes to slow OpenAI and drag it into controversy and take advantage of people either have left OpenAI or who have ill feelings towards Altman, et cetera, which is going to be many.
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Oh, no, that was like, what an asshole. Yeah, I watched how he did it. I've seen him do it before, you know, these sideways attacks, and they're funny. And he's like, oh, I feel sorry for him. He's such an asshole. I feel sorry that he's an asshole.
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My God, the news is insane, Scott.
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So which one do you think, this is just about slowing down. Both of us think that, but it's just about slowing down open AI, not a real lawsuit and not a real bid. Possibly could be though.
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It's not clear because it's a nonprofit if they have a special responsibility, but go ahead.
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Now we sort of stacked it with friends of us.
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Besides that weird Elon Oval Office presser with the kid saying whatever he was saying, we have also how DeepSeek is threatening Tesla's dominance. We've got a million of things. Of course, it's all about fucking Elon. I'm so tired of him, but he's right in the middle of everything. So what are we going to do?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Well, in the case of Twitter, there was a really good, there's been very good reporting when the CEO at the time, Agrawal, We have to look at this offer. It's an offer. It's a huge offer. I'm sorry to say we don't have a choice, even if he's an asshole, essentially. And then they had to take it because it was so good and ridiculous and so above their thing.
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In this case, they can do whatever they want. And it's not that far above it. And maybe the nonprofit gets more money or something like that. But they'll be lost. He'll just keep throwing. Listen, Elon Musk has two moves. I'll buy it or I'll sue you. These are his two big moves. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
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Right, right. It's exactly what Musk wants to happen, right? That's exactly what he wants to do. He wants to cut them off at the knees. He's very clever that way. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. How deep seek is threatening Tesla's next.
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What are we going to do? But first, President Trump said he and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to start negotiating an end to the war in Ukraine. Trump and Putin had what was described as a lengthy and highly productive phone call on Wednesday. Trump later spoke with Ukraine's President Zelensky.
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Scott, we're back. Chinese electric car company BYD is bringing deep-seek technology to its vehicles, of course. The EV maker has added advanced driver assistance systems in most of its vehicles, including a model that costs under $10,000. They also continue to be adorable. The cheapest Tesla model on the market is $30,000.
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Tesla stock is down 17% in the last month because people are actually doing math and not thinking that Musk's ascendance will benefit Tesla necessarily. You know, he's a CEO, but he's focused on a lot of other things. Scott, this week you talked to Alice Han, Chinese economist and director at Green Mantle, about this very thing. Let's listen.
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Why wouldn't you buy a BYD? They're great cars.
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But Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth offered some insights on what Ukraine can expect from a peace deal. Way to go, Pete, telling people what we're going to do before we negotiate. But go ahead.
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As long as they're safe, they're going to raise questions. I've had people write me about whether they're safe or not.
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I'm just saying, they have to be if they're here.
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Talk about these autonomous vehicle licenses. He needs them in China, right, if he can get these from the Chinese.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
I do think that China... I agree with you about sort of the fast follower, right? The planes are covered with the bodies of pioneers, that kind of thing. That said, I do think there's a ton of innovation. I think... You can see it through TikTok. I think what Alibaba has done. There's a lot of innovation there, too, of their own. But they definitely wait, watch, and then innovate.
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Yeah, I don't think they necessarily steal every minute of the day. But there is that. But these cars are very different than anything I've seen. So it's not like they're copying, right? They're sort of copying. But there's also innovations around it that I have never wanted to buy a car more than a BYD car. And I love my Ford BYD. I love my Bolt, as you know, and I think it's adorable too.
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I know, but have you seen them? I like they're inexpensive. They're beautiful.
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They're beautiful and they're cool. And if you're a young person, you'd want one. 100%.
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It's a Uniqlo of cars. Great analogy. You know, like whenever I go to Uniqlo, I buy 10 shirts. I like, they love them. And I have to say, I love them. I don't think I'm using them as just throw them out. They're just inexpensive and adorable. I just, I mean, I look adorable, by the way.
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And as long as they figure out the safety, which they'd have to in this country. I agree. I think he's just, here's the deal. Musk does not make cars that are interesting anymore. That's all. It's an interesting car. It was an innovation. He hasn't, you have to update these things for consumers. And he does, I don't think he cares about the cars anymore. That's my feeling.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Some better news for Tesla and Marco Rubio. In a totally normal deal that had no strings attached, the State Department procurement forecast for 2025 includes $400 million in armored Tesla vehicles. At least someone is buying them besides douche-nozzle men. They tried to hide it. They had Tesla on there. They changed it to armored vehicles and they're cyber trucks. Nobody else wants to buy them.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Consumers don't seem, a small group of consumers do, of course, as there would be, but it seems like it's one of those things people buy because it's weird and interesting. But nobody is buying them and very few people are buying them and now the government is buying them. Another gimme for Elon Musk. The grift keeps grifting, I feel.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Right, so they're buying them from him.
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Yes. Yes, please do. I mean, just paper filet. He's not going to be mayor soon. That's the thing. He's out. Don't you think? I feel like he's not going to be.
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Oh, no, it's utter play. You know what, Eric Adams, you're a crook. Like, you're a crook. You're a shitty crook, by the way. You only want tickets to Istanbul. Like, what a loser. You know, I know you're backing a particular candidate in New York. I forget who it was. Who was it?
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Yes. But there's a bunch of people running. You know, there's a bunch of people.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
But there's a bunch of very good candidates who are not going to be criminals.
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Yeah, they should make an example of him.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
I know. I think he's Grifty McGrift from the start, from the go. He wasn't living there. Everything came out of his mouth was a lie, this guy. And he's such a ridiculous peacock and surrounded himself with such... I get New York mayor has to be like a little bit grifty, but this guy was like... Grifty-ish. Grifty-ish. You know, they all are. I mean, come on. I mean, but, you know, like...
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
So Hegseth also noted that NATO membership for Ukraine is not on the table. I mean, Russia sort of won at devastating cost to itself and to Ukraine. But they're essentially saying, well, they got the land they got, and this is where we do. And I get that on some level.
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He's just he's an embarrassment for a great city. He won a little greatness out of a mayor of, you know, even back in the day, Rudy was not actually, you know what? I didn't support Rudy. He was the thug to a lot of people.
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Who would you put in place?
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Oh, good idea. I love it.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Great idea. Love it. All right, Kathy, get on it. All right, last thing. The Gulf of Mexico is now the Gulf of America, at least on Google and Apple Maps in the U.S. Apparently, there are consequences for not using the new name. Associated Press reporters have now been barred from multiple White House events after AP continues to use Gulf of Mexico in its reporting.
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The AP is calling this a violation of the First Amendment, but Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt, also known as Tracy Flick, says we reserve the right to decide who gets to go into the Oval Office. Oh, my God. It's so stupid. Distraction, distraction, distraction. I'm going to call it the Gulf of Scott. I don't give a fuck what people do to me if I do that.
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It's so stupid. It's so stupid. It's so manifestly stupid. And I'm sure I don't even think like, oh, yeah, we're calling it the Gulf of America. Whatever.
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We'll show them. I got to tell you, I'm loving the new president of Mexico so much. She's such a badass. I'm going to try to interview her.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
She's like, fuck you. You know, but at the same time, she deals. She's a dealer, too. Anyway, it's a distraction. Googie, you look like wimps, but whatever. And nobody looks good. I'm going to call it the Gulf of Scott. That's the end of it. All right, everybody?
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
At the same time, it's kind of Putin's kind of won because he was willing to put up with all those losses on his side and the damage that they did to Ukraine on the other side.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Doggolf. Doggy. No, Dogg. Gulf of Dog. No, I like Gulf of Scott. No, Gulf of Galloway sounds good.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Gulf of Galloway. It feels like real.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
It feels like Ponce de Leon would have named it that. Gulf of Galloway. Anyway. All right. It's time for this week's Threads poll. This one's open-ended. What do you wish Democrats would do in response to the Trump administration's actions? What do you wish? We've had our opinions on that. Something besides standing in front of a building and yelling. That's for sure.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Visit us on Threads at pivotpodcastofficial to answer. By the way, have you noticed AOC is not outside of the buildings? She's not. Have you noticed that?
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
She does great online stuff, I'll tell you that. She heard Pete are killing it.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
She and Pete Buttigieg, I have to say, are very appealing.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Well, we would love our listeners to write in what do you think they should do. And no violence, please, if you don't mind. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear predictions.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
You did? What happened? What were you taking?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
I'm getting notes from Lara saying no, no, no. But I say yes, yes, yes.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
All right. Go ahead. Prediction.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Here you go again.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Have I been saying that? I have been saying that.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Or the people that want to buy those cars.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Go in there. You're fine. You're going there again. I love you. Once more into the breach, Scott Galloway.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Well, the numbers are the math is math, right? Look, before they were on the upswing in terms of like the quality of cars, what they were releasing. Instead, they're forced to sell things to Marco Rubio, who has to do whatever everybody says because he's such a beta. Just so you know, on that thing about...
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
search uh atlantic politico vox jim bankoff sent me this another major publisher suing ai startup cohere for copyright and trademark infringement escalating the news battles legal a battle over the technology that's from the wall street journal is a canadian company it's valued at five billion dollars and they're using thousands of copyrighted works to train its large language model hmm
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Anyway, they're suing Tim Bankoff on the attack. Atlantic, Politico, they must have coordinated it all together. All right, so those are your two that searches. Those are good. Those are big ones. Those are big ideas.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Someday you're going to be right. Anyway, you are right. You were right before on terms of the numbers. It just didn't matter. In this case, we'll see. We'll see what happens.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Predictions? I predict I will buy yet another EV this year. I will. The key is getting a little long in the tooth. And I'm trying to debate whether to get the hybrid, which I think is really, hybrids are growing like crazy.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Oh, interesting.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Let's go to China. I bet we're popular in Hong Kong. You know, we did one of my conferences here. I had a stroke there, as you know. Last time I was there, I had a stroke. That's funny.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
No, let's go to China. Let's do it. That would be really interesting.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
China, we want to come visit you. And we're going to drive a BYD. We're going to drive it across the ocean.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Reach out to us. We're coming to China. We'll do an event, whatever you want.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Bring us to China. They're so good. All right, let's do it. Let's do it in 2025.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
After we see, we're going to see Wicked, my friend.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Are they going to let people? It's all about a surveillance economy. I wonder how big it is.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Do you know what, what are you doing this weekend? Anything interesting?
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
All right, that's not very far from where you are. And I'm really excited.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Yeah, okay. You know where I'm going? I'm going to SNL's 50th concert.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
No, there's going to be a show on Saturday. I'm just going to the concert the night before. It's at Radio City Musical.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back next week with more Pivot. Please read us out.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Yeah, I agree. I think it's really, you know, this is what they said they were going to do. So it's not a surprise. But Hegseth is just reading from a card, by the way. I don't think he has a fresh idea in his head ever. I think he's just handed things like the TV host that he was.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Zelensky, who's basically been sidelined here, posted on X after the Trump call writing, no one wants peace more than Ukraine. I would imagine so, given the devastation of his country. And it's just, the question is, can Europe have, does Europe have, this is the goal Trump had, which was Europe should pay more of its own freight, presumably, after we have been supportive of him for so, so long.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
And what he's doing is he's acting like this is a real estate deal, right? Yeah.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
And then another country just went off of Russian oil the other day. They turned on the lights. They had kind of a weird Eurovision event. One of them, they were like, fuck you, Russia.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Turn off the electricity and let's dance. Let's dance. And now we dance. I loved it.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
But, you know, it's this idea of giving into Russia. This is a realpolitik, right? All right, they're there. This NATO thing on top of it, it's like they should be in NATO. They want to be in NATO. They're a European country. They are so innovative. Speaking of drones, I mean, this was a technologic.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
To me, in 10 years, there'll be tons of technology going on there when this is all settled, which is a good thing, right? They'll create a really innovative, interesting technology. But if they want to be in NATO, let them be in NATO. And the fact that Hegseth did this is, you know, we all want this war to end, obviously, especially for the people of Ukraine.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Russia gets what it gets because it invaded. I'm sorry for the people who died and the Russians, but I'm not because they did it, right? So they have to pay their price. But, you know, to be attacked like this and then have us throw them under the bus is just not a surprise at all.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
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Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
That's why you do all the negotiating for us, because I'm always saying what I think on the top of my head. That's why I like working with you. You're always like, and then we do this. I'm like, what? Oh, all right. Okay, fine. Like, I don't know. Anyway, it's a shame. And I have to say, I have a lot of regard for Vladimir Zelensky.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
They're going to jam him out. That's the next thing. They're going to find a way to get rid of him and put a pro-Russian government in there. No question.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Yeah, it feels very Chamberlain, doesn't it? It feels very Anthony Chamberlain to me. Anyway. Well, we'll see where it goes. But Pete Hegseth just reads things on a card just so everybody knows.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Or was it Will Chamberlain? Neville Chamberlain. I'm sorry, not Anthony. Neville Chamberlain. Thank you for checking my historical references.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
I was thinking of a different Anthony because there's so many Anthony people.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Richard Chamberlain.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
We need to redo. Oh, my God. I just talked about the Thorn Birds with someone. I was being interviewed this week from Australia because I'm going to Australia in a week.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
You're not going to believe this. I mentioned it to one of the interviewers from Australia. I'm like, I love Australia, thorn birds. And literally this person was maybe 12 years old. They're like, what's that? An Australian. I was like, I need to go now. You don't know thorn birds? I need to leave now. Anyway, we'll move on from that.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
I don't know how we got to thorn birds from Ukraine, but there we are. Okay, the latest inflation numbers are out and they're higher than expected. Inflation rose 3% in January, the fastest monthly increase since August of 2020. The surging price of eggs was a big factor in the increase, up 53% from last year, which is fine with Kara, as I noted. I'm not an egg fan.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
President Trump was quick to point a finger at these numbers, calling the Biden inflation up. Sorry, dude, you own the car right now. And for those expecting lowered interest rates, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell says inflation numbers show there's more work to be done. So Jerome was right, and Trump was wrong.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
And now he said he didn't fix the price of eggs on day one, which he promised several times, and now says it's Biden's. It'll take longer. What do you think about inflation right now? Obviously, we talked about it a lot in the Biden administration. It was a big factor in his loss.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
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Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
I sent you that essay. Did you get that essay?
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
It's not woke. It was like in economics. Anyway, go ahead.
Pivot
Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Yeah, NIMBY NIMBY.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
You think Trump would do this, Mr. Real Estate, right? Studies like playing games in Ukraine.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Should you and I get a house together?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Sounds like you, but go ahead.
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
All right, but here's the thing. Will this inflation stuff going to stick? There's the tariffs, everything else, although they're kind of a paper tiger in that regard, for now at least. Is it going to stick to him? Because he made so many problems about fucking eggs. He went on and on about eggs. Is that going to stick on him?
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Trump’s Putin Call, Inflation Rises, and Sam Altman Strikes Back at Elon Musk
Yeah, nothing ever sticks this guy.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
It's an anagram of his name.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
So who is going to win in this, China? So if you're an American company, what should you do? Because it's 90 days of uncertainty. He hasn't removed the uncertainty.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Yeah. No gold in the yard in a hole or anything like that?
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
And if you're a company head, what do you do?
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Definitely Jamie Dimon. Jamie Dimon's so thirsty for presidency.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
He's particularly thirsty, but go ahead.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
They're softly calling it out.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Yeah, we'll get to that. We're going to get to that in a minute. Yeah, that's who's going to get it, who kisses up. I think Gia's going to run right over him. And also, the next thing, I don't think, I think they have gotten the upper hand again. They didn't have it. Now they do.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Yeah, and the frame was lovely.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
But we're going to get to that specifically in a second.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Correct. Especially around the Treasuries. They could wreck us. Like, I don't think anyone realizes how China could wreck us if it fell. Also, by the way, it's in our infrastructure from a cyber point of view. I just said a lot. They are they are everywhere in this country. And if you think you and I believe me, I believe them to be an adversary.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
And it's going on the shelf behind me so people can enjoy it. And then it came with a card, a lovely card that said, love your private dancer, Scott.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
But the handling them this way is just he is so stupid. They now know what his pain point is.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
And they are indeed our adversary, FYI. So that's why it's so ridiculous. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, how Trump's latest tariff moves are helping or hurting Apple.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
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Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
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Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
For as long as I can remember, bread has given me hiccups.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Boom! Oh, thank you for your lovely gift. You're very welcome.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Unexplainable is taking on hiccups. What causes them? And is there any kind of scientific cure? Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Scott, we're back. Trump's tariff pause brought some much-needed good news for Apple on Wednesday after its worst four-day trading stretch since 2000, if you can believe that. It was like a million years ago. Apple stocks soared 15%, its best day since January 1998. But the ongoing and increasing China tariffs are still a major problem for the company as Apple makes about 90% of its phones there.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
I love that photo. So speaking of things about you, you just announced your new book. I love the cover. I love the cover.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Apple is reportedly now planning to source more phones from India to offset some of these costs. A couple of things. Apple, if you're Tim Cook, you've got to... This is the biggest test of your mettle, I think, ever in your tenure. You've done a very good job, but this is really tough.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Apple is exempt from broad tariffs in Trump's first term, but that's not happening now, despite Tim Cook's $1 million donation to Trump's inauguration. It also announced a commitment to invest over $500 million in the U.S. over the next four years back in February. You know what?
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
It had done that in the previous administration, and it was stuff they were gonna do anyway, so that was kind of a nothing burger. So one thing Trump could do is throw Apple a lifeline with an exemption, another exemption. One thing they're saying, which is nonsense, is that the White House says the solution is to move iPhone manufacturing to the United States.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt, who is 27, everybody, let me be clear, she does not know what she's talking about. said in her briefing this week that Trump believes we have the labor, the workforce, the resources. Carolyn, you're an idiot. Even if that were to happen, it would cost $30 billion in three years for Apple to move just 10% of their supply chain to the U.S., according to one analyst.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
And the price for the iPhone would soar from $1,000 to $3,500, which is a non-starter. So there's no plans to move iPhones to the U.S. at all. The short-term benefit for Apple is that people have been flooding into their store to buy iPhones. Everyone's like, get one now. You know, there's a tariff panic happening in how much these are going to cost. I mean, they're really squeezed.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
So what's their best thing? An exemption, which Tim Cook do, because sucking up didn't work. which you might, I guess, more sucking up my work.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
By that time, Trump will be gone.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Yeah, it's very, it's got a feminine tone to it. It looks lovely. It's elegant. I like the ones with your pictures on them, the one with you as a kid and as an adult. I like that. But that could be on the back. Right. Or or inside or something.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Every time they open their mouth, I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, where? Where are you going to put these factories? And who's going to... Oh, God, we will automate them before. And by the way, there are... Then they always drag out advanced. We're going to do advanced manufacturing. It's already being done here, Carolyn Leavitt, you dumbass. We have Gorilla Glass.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
They're already doing the high-level stuff here and creating jobs. And they think you're so stupid. I've got so many calls from tech people like, how stupid... Are they? And I was like, seems like extremely so, because they don't understand that. Why would you build a factory here with this lunatic in charge? You never know what he's going to do if he's going to arrest you.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
He's going to do, you know, I mean, or make your life hell. I don't know if any of this stuff is going to last, but it's so chaotic. It's like a monkey flinging feces at all of us. So we're just going to duck until he goes away.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Exactly, the higher-end stuff.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Better jobs, smarter information technology services. So we have outsourced.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
They'd rather work at McDonald's.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
They would do better at McDonald's. They would do better at Amazon. It's just, oh, God, they're so dumb. Speaking of dumb, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Elon Musk's escalating feud with Peter Navarro. In this case, Team Elon.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Scott, we're back with more headlines. The feud between Elon Musk and Trump trade advisor Peter Navarro is heating up, and Scott and I are on Team Elon this time. Musk called Navarro, quote, dumber than a sack of bricks. In an ex-post on Tuesday, that was in response to Navarro saying on CNBC that Elon was a car assembler, not a car manufacturer, because Tesla relies on parts around the world.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Again, Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt, who I like to call Tracy Flick, had this to say about it when asked about the feud.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
It's handsome. I think it's going to be a bestseller. I do. Explain what's happening. It's coming out early. It's coming out in November.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
So I said, let's get this out.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
I like when you dress up. It looks handsome.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
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Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
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Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Well, how was it? Did you go already? No, no, no.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Let's get to it then. Anyway, you look great. Say hi to the ladies. I love them. Say hi to Whoopi and everything. They're really great. So it's another busy news day. Scott, Jesus, nothing stops. It's nutty. So we're going to get right to it. Obviously, the big story is President Trump pressing pause on his quote-unquote reciprocal tariffs for 90 days. I just don't even want to use that word.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
He's going to have to quit because he's hurting this company, right? The second thing is he's reversing clearances, revoking clearances to law firms that don't cooperate. They can't do business, which is why they're being so acquiescent, is they're losing clients. They're losing everything. If you have federal...
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
business and you can't do federal business because you don't have security clearances or the government won't work with you, you're fucked. It is part of a bigger picture of fucking with people's economics, right? This is the goal here with Chris and Miles is to fuck with their economics and to fuck with the economics people they work and affiliate with.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Finding a lawyer is going to be hard because they fuck with the lawyers. The media is nervous. I mean,
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This is part of the same thing. Even if it's a distraction, it's also trying to kneecap everybody so they can't come after you in some fashion, whether it's the media, the lawyers. Obviously, the Justice Department has lost every bit of ethical boundaries. It's over because of another oily factotum, Pam Bondi.
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You know, it's just, I think it is a distraction and yet it's also part of the same plan when he does stupid theft like this with the economy, not just stupid, but dangerous and devastating. He can then threaten people at the same time. It's a similar thing. Anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. OK, Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's your prediction?
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It's just nonsense. bringing tariffs down to universal 10% for most countries. He is hiking tariffs on China even higher to 125% in response to China's latest retaliation move, raising tariffs on the US to 84%. The market skyrocket on this pause news, although... The Dow surged nearly 8%, but it had been down rather significantly. It's not quite back where it was, but the S&P 500 added 9.5%.
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But will they do anything about it? Will the SEC do something? He was pretty silent, this new acting SEC.
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All right. That's a good one. Those are good ones. And they're all related. And they're all really depressing in so many ways. Do you have anything happy? Anything? Anything? I don't know. I'm excited about... The new Mission Impossible is coming. You want to go with me?
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Now that you sent me an intimate picture of us, I think it's time.
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It came with a card, a lovely card that said, love your private dancer, Scott.
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A dancer for money. I love that album. That whole album. I'm going to... Let me just... That is a great album. Go listen to that album. I listened to it when I was in my early 20s. I love that fucking album.
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Remember, she made her way back.
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Okay. All right. You're married.
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All right. You know, I'm not going to go into it because we've got to go. But I taught at Duke for a semester.
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Anyway, thank you, Scott. It was very thoughtful. It gave me a good laugh last night.
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Anyway, it was very touching. Walt never sent me a picture of him nearly naked. If you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
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Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with Ian Bremmer, president and founder of the Eurasia Group, one of our favorites. Let's listen to a clip.
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The Nasdaq was up 12% its best day in 20 years, except that he had caused the decline, of course. He initially told American people to be cool about the tariff turmoil, later explained his reasoning for reversing course, which is, I'm sorry, just not true. But let's listen anyway.
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So it's a little different than what you were saying, but in the long term.
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Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.
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100 friggin' percent. It's such a shift and they're trying to spin it as a victory. They created, it's like an arsonist explaining how they put out the fire. The White House is spinning as the art of the deal victory, but, you know, honestly, he made a mess and now he's trying to recover it.
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But he was very spooked by, after a major treasury bond sell-off with 10-year yields, we're leading 4.5%, which is insane because it means we have to pay more for bonds and then we'd have all this debt. And he acknowledged he was watching the bond markets saying people were getting a little queasy. Again, he was queasy.
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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
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He told people not to become a panic hand, like a Republican, but a panicked Republican, a word he coined apparently, a new party based on weak and Stupid people, but honestly, he's the panic hand here. He panicked, and smartly so. It was a good reason to panic. He's also been accused of market manipulation by some Democrats, including Senator Adam Schiff, who's calling for an investigation.
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Hours for announcing the pause that sent markets surging, Trump posted on True Social, this is a great time to buy. He put DJT at the end of his post as initials, but also the stock ticker for Trump Media. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was asked by CNBC's Melissa Lee about Trump's actions in so many words. Let's listen to this clown.
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I mean, he's such an idiot. I mean, every time he speaks, I cringe. The White House has rejected any claims of wrongdoing, saying Trump just reassuring the markets and Americans about economic austerity. But it just feels like a grift. So first, let's talk about what's happened and then we'll talk about what's next. So, Scott, your take.
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Yes, Jeff. Jeff claimed the thing. Yeah, I would look good as a man. I'd be a handsome man, I would say. Yeah, I would. It's true. I'd be adorable.
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Can you explain for people who don't understand what happens? If the bonds yields go up, that means we pay more for the money we borrow and so does everybody else, mortgages, everyone else.
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Yes, exactly. Let me just say, something happened to me last night. I'm here in my new studio, which I'm working on getting nice and fixing up like yours. And I get a present, a FedEx guy comes and brings something. And I had been contacted by your assistant, MJ, about sending me something. And I said, as long as it's not a stripper, you were going to send me a gift.
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They might have just been on his signal group. I mean, who knows?
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But word got out. They could have just, word got out for sure. This is the sloppiest, most poorest White House going. And who knows who's nearby, who called people. Suddenly Bill Ackman turns from critic to what a great job deal. I'm sure he made money in this.
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And also, I will say, I interviewed Bill. I had a tariff panel yesterday, which is probably—actually, it still holds up. But Bill was talking about these bonds. He said the Japanese, and especially the Chinese, couldn't wreck our economy in two seconds. Not buy them, not do—you know, all kinds.
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They are our biggest creditors, and they can just push—put us down, just like by either not buying, flooding the markets with treasuries— making the yields go up. The fact that he didn't know this or didn't realize what a situation we're in because of the Treasury bonds is just... And to say, like, it got the yips, he got the yips. And by the way, he should have gotten the fucking yips.
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Because if that happened, it would have been a disastrous economic meltdown, the likes of which we would never have recovered from for decades. Like, that's the thing. He was this close to, like, taking us all over the edge. And the fact that he didn't does not deserve any credit. It does not deserve any good job, sir, bullshit. Like, the Ackmans, who's such an oily factotum to Trump,
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But anyway, this is just temporary relief, though. We're now 90 days of uncertainty. What should companies be doing in the meantime? And these massive Chinese terrorists, the back and forth has been likened to a game of chicken. I think Trump blinks again. Mr. Yip blinks before Xi because they have the treasuries. They've got a lot of...
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And I said, as long as it's not a stripper. So what to my wondering eyes should appear than this? Let me explain the picture for people who can't see. People who watch it on YouTube can see. It's a picture of Scott about to lift his shirt to show off his tummy to the crowd at South by Southwest. And my face was like, oh, my fucking God, how did I end up here? Sit down.
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Again, we're doing favors for China over and over by this behavior. So what would you do if you're a company? And talk about the China thing, because they were also touting we're now really focused on China, which, by the way, we should have been focused in on the first place and not this fucking nonsense, this other tariff. But it's only 90 days. So thoughts?
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No more discounts, by the way, from China to Americans.
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No, it's not. No, I have a very complex mind.
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That's a good argument. He's right. I mean, when I interviewed AMD's CEO, Lisa Su, she was sort of, everyone's sort of leaning into the open source model. They definitely are the second competitor. I think that's what OpenAI thinks. I think they think it's Gemini themselves and Lama, and Lama would be number two. Scott?
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I gave them recommendations of people who don't like me. I'm like, they're going to give you an off the record piece on me, so you might as well just call them.
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Mark Zuckerberg, people.
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Sounds about right.
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He made the pivot from the Metaverse quite smartly.
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We like the thing, Matt. I see your point. I'm just saying right now, OpenAI is in the lead, but you're right. They've got a lot of throughput. I suspect that OpenAI will get sold as one of them at some point, or maybe not now that they're a nonprofit.
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Electricity, you're saying. 100%. Electricity. Yeah. That was a great one, Matt. Thank you. That's really smart. And the fact that you're using Scott's phrases now is... She's not that nice.
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Okay. I know you did. And Matt, we appreciate it. As we tape on Thursday, President Trump is set to announce a framework of a trade deal with the UK. Teasing the announcement on the true social, Trump called many other deals will follow. And speaking of our allies, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down for a meeting with President Trump at the White House this week.
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Trump was, of course, asked about Canada becoming the 51st state again. Let's listen.
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I'm like, here's who's going to say something to be nice on the record, not nice off the record. Here's someone who's going to, you know, I gave them a range of people. I think it's focused on me helping people get away from old media. I think that's my impression.
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Medical care. You get tremendous medical care in Canada.
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Don't have any cares about medical. Anyway, when Trump was asked about whether Carney could say anything to lift the tariffs on Canada, he said no. The president also told The Room that Canada is a very special place to him and that he loves the country. Speaking of tariffs, this is an interesting thing.
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Internal documents obtained by The Washington Post show that the State Department pushed nations to clear hurdles for Starlink, leading to some to believe there would be a tariff relief for following through. Totally by the books, as always. Total grift. So I want to just note some things.
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Matt Stoller, who's a person who deals with a lot of stuff like this, noted that this UK is hoping to get reduction on 25% tariffs the US is levying, but the baseline 10% tariff will remain in place. Officials say in return, Britain is offering concessions on a digital tax it levies on big US companies. companies, big U.S. tech companies.
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And so Stoller noted, so these trade deals are just cuts and tariffs in return for Google and Meta. Explain how this is an attempt at manufacturing renaissance by demanding consumer sacrifice. So let's go from there. First, the British thing, then Canadian. And I love Mark Carney. He's such a hunk. And the Starlink thing is exactly as I expected. Total paper play. Go ahead.
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Yes, there are a lot. There are quite a lot.
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Including you, Scott Galloway.
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And then, of course, Trump goes, never say never. Like, so that's, he did a great job. I thought Carney was quite a spectacularly, he seemed erudite and approachable at the same time. So go to the tariffs because I do think this is like, they're all like really not tariff deals.
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This seems like a bunch of shakedowns all over the world, including the Starlink thing, which is exactly what I expected and remains horrifying.
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Yeah, because he loves to be like, I make a deal, I make a deal, but it's always in the interest. The Starling thing was amazing. Maybe it's the best one, but these countries shouldn't be forced into it. If you only take our, you know, if you take our salami, you know, you'll get what you want. You won't be like beat up kind of thing. And that's what it feels like. It feels like everything.
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And of course, it's Starlink. And when there's other choices that they could make with European satellite, whatever it matters, that might be their choice in the end, but they don't get the choice of the choice. And what the worst thing is, it's a lot of small countries, right? A lot of small African countries. It's not just one. The Post noted, it was noted, it was like Vietnam was in there.
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I forget, the Congo may have been in there. But, and these are not all the ones on the list. So this is a policy of the government to sell Starlink. Now, our government does go around and sell our companies, you know, for decades, you know, use Lockheed, use Boeing, whatever.
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But nothing this explicit with someone so close to the president, right, in terms of like, let me get you a deal and giving them unfair advantage.
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I know. Thank you so much. I'm so much in your debt. I was struggling. I do have to say, often, a lot of people are like, I really helped you. I'm like...
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And then the Trump boys go around the world doing either, you were on Anderson Cooper, I think it was last night, The crypto stuff, the real estate stuff, they're building a big building in Saudi Arabia, one all over the Mideast, and they're just coming with a bag of money. They feel like mob people, like, here, put the money in the bag and then we'll do whatever you want.
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Anyway, it's grotesque, really it is. Anyway, Scott, and these trade deals, let's take them apart very carefully, but most of them are going to be in this genre of giving a favor to someone and not bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. That was never the goal. That was a giant lie they were telling.
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And people did these sort of virtue signals of things they were already investing in to pretend that they were bringing manufacturing back to the U.S. So regular workers are probably not going to benefit very much, as they didn't in the first Trump administration. We made all those promises, none of which came to fruition about manufacturing facilities. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
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OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s “Creepy” AI
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scott we're back tulsi gabbard the director of national intelligence that's that's working hard that word right there those two words um reportedly has a history of not following best practices when it comes to cyber security gabbard used the same easily cracked password across multiple accounts i'm surprised it wasn't one two three four for years according to wire the password showed up in multiple data breaches and was linked to her gmail dropbox and linkedin accounts and it was apparently some nickname she had in some strange group she belonged to
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During the time the breaches occurred, Gabbard was serving in Congress and sitting on the intelligence-related committees with access to sensitive national security information.
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Then again, hold my beer, a lot of beers, Defense Secretary Pete Hegsatz also had passwords exposed in multiple data breaches, including the one that was reused across personal email accounts, according to the New York Times. I mean, this is like worse than my mother, these two.
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And we also learned that he used Signal, Pete Hegg says, even more for Pentagon business, engaging at least a dozen separate chats, the Wall Street Journal reported. I mean, I've never seen more promiscuous people when it comes to bad data practices. And talk about your concerns about this.
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These people do not know how to keep classified information safe, and even their own personal information at the same time.
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What, Jordache?
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I love Dockers.
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They had extra pockets on the side. The thing is, I can totally see that.
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And then all the planes falling off of aircraft. I've never heard of this. Like, what in the world is happening? All this sloppiness.
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They'll blame it on someone. I've never heard of a plane. When's the last time that was a story? And now it's like a double story. Like, these people are sloppy in every single aspect of their lives. Anyway, whatever. There'll be more of it, and we'll find out. I mean, I'm sure our rivals are just loving it.
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I literally have the same clothes since high school.
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Yep. And PTAG Seth is not. Anyway, whatever. It's going to be a constant disappointment until they dump this guy. And he'll probably get dumped because he dumps planes off of aircraft carriers that have cost $60 million each. The money that we're supposed to be saving. Yeah.
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Anyway, the Gates Foundation is marking its 25th anniversary with a major announcement that will officially wind down operations and close its doors permanently in 2045, decades earlier than originally planned.
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In the meantime, Bill Gates has committed over $200 billion in aid over the next 20 years, astonishing number, with a focus on ending preventable deaths, eradicating infectious diseases, and lifting millions out of poverty. The announcement comes as the U.S. foreign aid faces growing political pressure. They're cutting it everywhere, Trump administration is.
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Gates has been really, he's got a hair up his ass about this for sure, because in an interview to the New York Times, Gates pulled no punches about recent cuts in U.S. aid, putting the onus on Elon Musk, saying he put it in the wood chipper because he didn't go to a party that weekend. Gates went on to say, the world's richest man has been involved in the deaths of the world's poorest children.
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I was like, he's been a little bit more like Trump positive just because he wanted to sort of get the aid back in some way. But now he's like, fuck it. Like, I don't care. This is what's going on here. So the fact that one of the other world's richest men is spending $200 billion of his money in stuff that the U.S.
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government should be doing and the fact that he's calling on Elon, I thought it was good for Goop for Gates, because I was worried he was sort of modulating himself in a way that I know he doesn't think. So what do you think about this?
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I was. I loved Dockers.
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They had extra pockets. That's all I remember. I love them.
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Or to go to Mars. Mars is what we really need to do so we can save humanity.
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Well, this is 200 billion, Scott, from Gates.
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I got to find my Dockers. I would walk around.
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Or netting or whatever. He was doing all kinds of different things. Toilets.
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He's a complex guy. Listen, he was a very difficult person. I was there when he was younger and kind of a jerk. He was a jerk. and all kinds of stuff he's done that is not great in lots of ways. At the same time, the transformation of this person into this kind of philanthropy is really something to see.
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And the fact that, listen, it's no small risk for him to call out Musk, who has been, by the way, attacking him relentlessly with fake stuff around vaccines. Musk and Twitter has been the purveyor of this nonsense that Gates is putting chips inside of people's heads, all kinds of like through the vaccine.
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And the fact that Musk, all he does is make trouble for this guy and insult him and create all kinds of dangerous misinformation about him. And then I'm glad he did this. I'm glad he said it because it's what he thinks.
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If only someone had a book coming out in November that discussed what kind of men we should be.
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Well, you're telling it. Anyway, we've got to go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Disney and Uber's latest earnings.
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Disney is out with its latest earnings. I'd love to hear what you think about this. The company reported $23 billion in revenue, up 7% from a year ago, and $3.2 billion in net income, a big turnaround from the net loss of $20 million last year. These numbers were fueled by higher streaming profit. That seems to be doing well. Good bet by Bob Iger.
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Domestic theme parks and home video sales of Moana 2. I can tell you, I've watched it 109,000 times. And speaking of theme parks, Disney has also announced plans for a new park in Abu Dhabi. That makes sense. Its seventh theme park resort. I thought they had one there. I don't know why. Disney is often seen as a bellwether for consumer confidence.
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These numbers tell you consumers aren't too worried, or is it just another Conforstrum earnings report? I'm going to add in Uber's earnings, too. The company reported $11.5 billion in revenue, up 14% year over year. Good not a huge company, but a good, solid revenue, but slightly below Wall Street's expectations. Total bookings grew 14% to 42 billion. That's the amount.
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And then they have to take out blah, blah, blah. They have to pay drivers, et cetera. Uber has also just announced a joint venture with Chinese self-driving car company Pony AI to roll out robo-taxis in Middle Eastern markets. It looks like Uber is becoming the partner for all these things like Waymo and what Pony AI is doing around the world. So I'd love to hear what you think about.
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And then we have another listener prediction around earnings. But first Disney and then Uber.
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Waymo and Uber have a deal because they're the reservation system. They're the front end. I've always thought Uber was the reservation system for someone.
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Scott is speechless, which is excellent. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
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I use him as a fan. You know, we went to this party last night for Keith McNally. He has a Minetta Tavern here. What a great restaurant, by the way. And he's lovely, let me just say. And he's written this astonishing, it's the best book party I've been to because it was not about the book. But they read from the book. Richard E. Grant read sections from it and everything else.
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Comcast is their competitor.
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Yeah, I think he's, and then we'll see who he takes over. But he's, you know, he's a pro. This man is a pro. Okay, Scott, we're on the topic of earnings. Let's hear for another prediction from a listener. This one about the economy. Let's play it. By the way, our listeners are so smart.
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Teufelskreis. Okay. Scott, most people can't tell if we're going to run into this recessionary environment. It certainly feels like that's what we're being set up for unless he does something. I mean, this is self-inflicted, of course.
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And it was great food. They said it was dinner adjacent. And then it was bigger than any dinner I've ever eaten. And he's, you know, I don't know if you know this, he had a stroke. We chatted about it quite a bit. He has much more issues around speaking and it's one of the sides of his body. But Just a beautiful book that he's written. And they had music and food and everything else really fun.
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It's like a horror movie, stagflation. I feel like Besson's got the upper hand here, Besson and Rubio, over the crazies, I think, I suspect, a little bit more so.
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They all freak out, yeah. But I'm saying, with having to do with Trump's crazy, he seems a little more willing to deal, besides himself, self-deal. In any case, we'll see. We'll see. Great, great. Thank you so much, Rich. That was really great. Very quickly, the new Meta AI app is creepy, according to a detailed account in the Washington Post.
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Speaking of these AI stuff that were Meta, probably will dominate in many ways. The app assures personalized AI and delivers via personal information from Facebook and Instagram and memory files where details about users are kept. Jeffrey Fowler, who wrote the post, the article found his memory file contained interests like natural fertility techniques, divorce, and payday loans. Okay.
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also feeds conversations back about Meta's AI training system without an option to opt out. I know you're saying they're going to dominate. The thing I worry about, you always say, oh, I loaded this up, I loaded that up. And I'm always like, I'm not loading my stuff up. And you can pay a little more to chat GPT so they don't train on your data and they allegedly protect it. I would not load up
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like what I ate for lunch yesterday to meta. I have to say, I mean, except for Instagram and threads, which I use largely for marketing, I gotta say, I'm not loading a damn thing up to this person because of the way it was used and the lack of any guardrails. I would never use their AI app. I don't know how you feel about it, but you're much more promiscuous in loading up your information, so...
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But I wore like such sloppy clothes. And I said, Amanda's like, oh, I should dress up a little bit. I said, no matter what you do, I will be more underdressed. And she goes, oh, okay. And it felt better. I show up in like almost pajamas to parties now.
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Mine is food porn like people making food, tool tips, little hacks, hardware hacks. And Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible, Dockers, which is coming out May 23rd. And I'm going by myself, just so everybody knows, do not speak to me on May 23rd. I'm going to see the final reckoning and I'm going to probably see it twice. But go ahead, Scott. So what do you think about this app?
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Are you going to use it? You probably will.
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So you're not concerned with loading yourself, which is my question.
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Let me say, we have to move on, but Scott will be everybody's friend, next friend. Just so you know, Scott is everybody's friend. I'm very unfriendly, but Scott will be everybody's friend. Okay, I'm not using that app. That's all I'm saying. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions, including one more listener prediction. Scott, we're back.
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I know, I can't.
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We're going to do a prediction now, Scott. I'm going to do a very brief one. They're giving out Golden Globes for best podcast next year. I think we need to win, even though we're not in the top 20. You have to be in the top 25 to be in it. We have to get to the top 25.
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Not really, not really. I'm going to get my dockers and find them and wear them with you on something we do.
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Yes, apparently.
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I know that, exactly. What about the top 25 revenue?
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So we need to kiss up to the Golden Globe people, all those foreign press associates.
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Let's tariff them. We want to come. We are so much fun at a party. We would be so good at a Golden Globe. We will drink. We will cause problems, et cetera, et cetera.
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That's correct. And as I said, I will be at Mission Impossible. One thing, I'm going to do a quick prediction. I was talking to the people at Aurora, which is the self-driving trucks.
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Everyone's focused on self-driving cars, but these driverless runs of trucks, they're now going on every day between Dallas and Houston. I just think that's something that isn't focused in on. They hauled pastries. The first driverless hauled transported pastries. This is an area nobody's paying attention to. I think that is the real money is that kind of stuff.
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Because that's where it's going to be. That's where we really do need these driverless things going on. And I'm excited by the driverless cars in cities. I am personally. But I think that's where the big money is going to be. That's where you should be focusing in on if you're interested in the sector. All right, Scott, make a prediction.
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So that's Melania coin one.
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We would put it into it. Oh my God. Anna Wintour.
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Of course they do.
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I'm going to somehow get that message to her that she should invite us. Maybe they'll do a tech one and then we'll show up as like a, we'll dress like Elon or something.
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I agree. I've been talking to a lot of investigative reporters right now. And by the way, a lot of techies are keeping tabs of this stuff. I have to say, in a couple of years, there's going to be a massive investigation. He'll probably be not too old to put him in jail for it. But boy, is this a grift. You're absolutely right.
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That's correct. This is a crash. It is really, this is the story I keep telling reporters, and you've talked about it quite a lot. This is the story, the absolute kleptocracy, and it's in plain sight. Absolutely.
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That's my point. This is just, I get it, but they're not even smart. I don't even think they're smart. I think they're stupid and they're just putting their bag out and say, put money in here. Mobsters are notoriously stupid. They just are just muscle. And that's what's happening here.
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Yep, absolutely. Okay, Scott, you've made your prediction. Now it's time to hear one last one from a listener. This one is super serious, so please try to focus, okay? Let's play it.
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I got to say, it's a big business. It's a big business. They have good names. They all have such good names, all those manscaping things. They have really funny brand names. Anyway, I'm not going to say how I know this, but I do.
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Well, I don't know what to say. Scott is speechless, which is excellent. Thank you, Mike.
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I think clipping is good. Keep it clean for the ladies, Scott. Keep it clean for the ladies. This is what I tell my sons.
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OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s “Creepy” AI
Okay. Keep it clean for the ladies. That's my advice to all men. Ladies and men, let me be clear. We want to hear from you. Send us your question about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
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OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s “Creepy” AI
Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week, this week on Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with Ann Applebaum, one of my favorites, Pulitzer Prize winning historian.
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And she's so good.
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And staff creator at The Atlantic. Let's listen to a clip.
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Hello, Marco Rubio. Anne is terrific. And I can see why you're in the grift mode right now, because she talks about this a lot. She's an expert on this.
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She is. She's great and well worth reading. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.
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Oh, yeah. It was beautiful.
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And then you got to eat in the cafeteria. Well, that's nice. That's a good thing. At the Conde Nast cafeteria. Oh, my. Well, we've got a lot to get to today, so we've got to move on, including Meta's creepy new AI app, Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard's continuing sloppiness around digital privacy and protection of their stuff, and Disney's latest earnings.
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But first, tensions between India and Pakistan are escalating after India launched military strikes against targets in Pakistan this week in retaliation for a deadly attack in Kashmir. This conflict is happening at a pivotal economic moment. India is doing trade deals with the U.S. and the U.K., and Pakistan is emerging from a years-long financial crisis.
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You've had one there.
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You've also got China recently allied with Pakistan, recently calling Pakistan an ironclad friend and an all-weather strategic cooperative partner. For his part, President Trump has offered to help to defuse things, saying, if I can do anything to help, I'll be there. Of course, the Trumps themselves are doing some some deal with Pakistan too, a personal deal. So there's that thrown in there.
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Both countries are nuclear powers. I, in fact, interviewed Christiane Amanpour, so I'm going to channel whatever she says in my comments and pretend they're mine yesterday. She had a lot to, you know, it was an interesting interview, but this is sort of the day's conflict. Any thoughts?
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Well, you know, Christiane was saying that it requires really good diplomacy and she's worried about the Trump administration because the U.S. has always been a key person here. And she said into a vacuum, something always flows. And so that would be China. And, you know, there are these complications of the Trump's personal financial interests in the countries. And it just makes a big mess of it.
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And she was worried there wasn't someone who could, like, they'll send in that idiot Steve Witkoff or someone like that to deal with it rather than someone more competent. And if Stephen Miller becomes the national security, I mean, seriously, so over his skis and doesn't like brown people, from what I can tell.
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And so it's a real problem if you don't have the US in real fighting shape among these people to sort of shut the whole thing down. And, you know, it's another one of these conflicts. The next one will be possibly Taiwan. And so there's going to be one conflict after the next as China starts to really flex its power, especially as its economy is suffering because of the tariffs.
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It'll want to expand elsewhere, I think. Anyway, we're not experts on this, but I would recommend listening to Scott interviews lots of foreign experts, and I just did Christian, and so listen to them. But still troubling for the stock market, for the economies, and for stability in general with all the different conflicts around the world.
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OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s “Creepy” AI
I thought he was going to be the settle-it president, but I guess not. OpenAI will abandon plans to place its AI business under control of a for-profit entity. Instead, it will transform its for-profit subsidiary into a public benefit corporation controlled by the nonprofit parent, which I think they were considering a lot of things.
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The decision was made after talking to civic leaders and AGs of California and Delaware who would need to sign off on the plan. Obviously, they didn't like what was the possibilities. Sam Altman, CEO Sam Altman, said the changes will still allow the company to access $30 billion investment from SoftBank. As a reminder, Elon Musk has been attempting to block the company's restructuring.
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His lawyer says the announcement changes nothing, which means he didn't really care about the nonprofit part, if this is what they're doing. Obviously, he wants his vague. That's what Elon Musk wants. I talked to Sam and Brett Taylor about it. And I think, you know, I was like, this is a back walk. They were like, no, because we were considering lots of things.
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Then we got feedback and we made the decision and said that the Musk thing had nothing to do with it. And it was evidenced by the fact that Musk didn't pull the lawsuit after they did this. And they felt like they still had enough ability to. You know, to raise money. I think their issue is they've got to raise money and at the same time reward people.
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And then they have a lot of people feeling they should stay true to their original roots, which was a mission-driven company. So it probably will be a good thing for them to get this in their rearview mirror and then move on. But I don't know if you have any thoughts.
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Did you embarrass me? My instructions to you were to embarrass me in some fashion.
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No, let me tell you something. They said the for-profit corporation board and the nonprofit board will be the same people. Right? And so it's usually this nonprofit as hegemony over the for-profit corporation now, but it's the same board.
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Yeah, except he didn't pull the case because he wants- Of course not. He didn't do it to help anybody at all. Helped himself to help himself or slow them down. That's what he did it for.
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Yeah, so we'll see. I think it'll give them, everyone else will back off and he will just continue because he thinks he's owed more. I think that's really at the heart of his case is he thinks he created it and funded it and deserves more money from it. When in fact, he walked away. He walked away.
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Which he did with Twitter, remember? He was going to buy it and then he pretended.
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I live in that neighborhood.
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I want the money. My house is gone.
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He threw a fucking tizzy and lost money. And they're pulling way ahead. I mean, the chat GPT is really, the numbers are really quite startling in terms of the usage. They're obviously spending money too. This is really, but it feels like they're really pulling ahead in that regard. And they're going to get, they're going to get, there's one of the things someone was like, why is it so chaotic?
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I'm like, you were not around for Google. And then they were fine. You know what I mean? Like, I think they're probably on a Google trajectory and not a Netscape trajectory. But Google was a fucking... chaos monkey of a shithouse for a long, long time before they settled in and went. Anyway, before we move on, we're going to be listening to some predictions from listeners today, just so you know.
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We asked listeners to give them predictions because I'm trying to replace you quietly. So let's listen to the first one now because we're already on the topic.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
Did you see Sergey Brin was talking about everyone back to the office and we got to hardcore it? One of the founders was talking about the need to do that in order to prevail in AI. He even was sounding the alarms.
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The national security implications, I mean, it's just, they come up with something every time. Like, we must have strong national champions. It sounds so, I don't know, Chinese, Russian.
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One of the things that I was saying to one of the questions, and they said, what bothers you the most? I said, well, a lot of times they competed. I was, you know, as I go look back on, I'm talking about my book and stuff like that. Like Steve Jobs competed on product, right? Or tried to compete on the actual product. There's so many bad products. Like Tesla has not innovated.
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I said, I'm offended by Elon because of Elon, but the car hasn't innovated, right? Very much. And that's why he's losing. Or Google Search hasn't innovated. And all kinds of products aren't better, right? A couple of them are doing a better job. I think Apple has come up with several new interesting products over the past 10 years, for example. AirPods, the watch, things like that.
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I am still in Australia. I am still in Australia. I know. I've been here a while. I've been all over this amazing country. I was in Brisbane. I was in Adelaide. I was in Sydney. And now I'm in Melbourne, which I think is my favorite city. I hate to pick one because all the Australians who love us will be mad at me. But it's a great city. It's a fantastic city.
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But right now they're competing on oligarchy and technology. access and proximity, and none of it's about the actual product. And that makes me, I don't know, I was like vaguely like, it was irritating that they can't, that this is the way they're going to get an advantage. And I get that's why, but it feels that's late stage.
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And it's a real turn for them that they can't compete on actual things. They have to get whatever angle they can in order to stay in business. Like Starlink, I want to be close friends so I can get whatever I want. Although Canada just kicked him out. That Justin Trudeau has gotten a dose of backbone. Have you noticed that? He's extra adorable recently. I have.
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Yeah, they're looking very handsome. They're looking very handsome.
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Well, they are. They're acting like leaders. Not just because I like what they say.
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They're being clear and crisp.
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The rich people like this stuff.
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It's bringing them together too.
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The crevice. Yes, it's the crevice. Also, there's a lovely video of Justin Trudeau making a maple milkshake.
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I'm sorry, go ahead. Oh, that would be hot. Anyway. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's address to Congress, the Democrats' divided response with posters that they think we're unimpressed by. Also, John Fetterman was unimpressed.
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Support for Pivot comes from Delete Me. It's pretty safe for me to assume that your personal information is accessible online. And no, I'm not just talking about your name or your pictures of the year you graduated high school. I'm talking about even more sensitive information.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
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I've been using Delete.me for a while now, I have to say. I am still shocked by how much of my personal information is on the internet and how it's collected. And especially someone like me who knows a lot about privacy and a lot about these issues. Well, you can take control of your data and keep it privately private by signing up at Delete.me. Now at a special discount for our listeners.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com slash pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com slash pivot code pivot.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
Oh, my God. Oh, I can't believe you have a dirty Australian joke.
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Scott, we're back with our first big story. President Trump delivered a joint address to Congress this week. And for those watching, it felt like yet another campaign rally. He has got to get some new material. Over the course of one hour and 40 minutes, very long, Trump touted his accomplishments, revisited old grievances and repeated lies. It was Finch. It was a good version of what he does.
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He praised Elon Musk and Doge, mocked Democrats and wokeness. He didn't unveil any future policies or plans. It was a greatest hits, and it was a good version of greatest hits. We'll get to the Democrats in a bit. What did you think about the speech?
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And I'll just note, Trump also noted in the speech that he's working to end the war in Ukraine and also say the letter he got from Ukraine's President Zelensky apparently now is ready to come to the negotiating table. He's had to He's had to get the lesson in how to suck up to Trump, which is unfortunate. It follows this explosive meeting between Trump, Zelensky, and J.D.
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Vance in the Oval Office last week, the second most interesting thing J.D. Vance has done on a couch, according to the American people. Trump suspended military aid to Ukraine earlier this week, and he's cut off intelligence sharing as well, which is probably even more devastating. First, talk about what you thought of his speech and then the Oval Office situation.
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Tomorrow, yeah. Well, the day after tomorrow for you. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah.
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We'll get to the Democrats in a minute. Talk about him. Why do you think—I agree with you. Why do you think he did well, even though it was the greatest hits? He did the greatest hits well, is what I thought.
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Eggs up. Trump take egg.
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Oh, transgender mice. Oh, go ahead.
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No, he was an effective liar. He was an effective liar. That's what I thought. I'm like, he's lying excellently here. And it was like, so it was easily proven lies. The transgender mice thing was insane because it's transgenic mice and they put DNA. It's not what he was describing it as. But of course, he wins the day because it's like transgender mice. And, you know, it's ridiculous.
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I've been going on my book tour. I didn't come here when my book came out last March.
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No, Scott, I literally have sold out. You're huge. We are huge. Everyone asks me about you. It's really irritating. They're like, when are you and Scott coming? I have sold out major venues here just by myself. We could sell out a stadium. We could sell out a stadium.
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It feels bad. Nobody. No, it's.
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No, it was cheap. It was a cheap shot. It was a cheap shot, as they say. Anyway, what did you think of the Zelensky thing, speaking of beating up on someone and planning a ridiculous attack?
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And then he defended it. Then he defended it.
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Him and Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Listen, foghorn leghorn. Closet in foghorn leghorn. Just go back to your closet.
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I don't even know what that means.
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Oh, I still don't get it. Don't explain.
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I'm not that person. I'm a very simple lady. That's good. Yes, it was depressing. And the whole thing around the outfit.
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Let's go back to Zelensky. The outfit, like, with Musk was there. They just have no irony. Like, they had Musk there looking like a lesbian from the 1980s, a badly dressed lesbian from the 1980s. And then they're insulting guys wearing a military uniform, his country's military uniform.
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You know, his people are like, good job. Like, good job that they went after him. And like, go, go, fella. It's so ridiculous. Ooh, God, it was so, that was really, and then, of course, Zelensky's had to, like, walk it back because and say it was unfortunate. And, you know, when I rewatched it, I was like, was he that difficult?
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And I, just to make sure, and I was like, no, they really egged him on. You could see it happening in real time. He certainly got a no-show.
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Yes, they want us to come.
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I know. Oh, it's so gross. It's so gross.
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And they're all upset that you talk about not wanting to come there.
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Yeah, yeah. Well, except if everyone lived here, it wouldn't be far. You see what I'm saying? Ooh.
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You have impressive friends.
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Very impressive. The beating up of this guy is crazy, but they think it's like sport. And then the language that the Republicans use, people like Lindsey Graham and Rubio, who are very much supportive of this, have literally lost every bit of credibility. It's embarrassing not to be. And so they can say they were so mean to Trump. They weren't mean to Trump. They just wasn't. It wasn't.
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But that they think this is a win is pathetic. Anyway, Speaking of pathetic, let's talk about the Democrats who tried all sorts of tactics during Trump's speech, none of which worked. Congressman Al Green was removed from the chamber after interrupting the speech, shaking his cane and shouting to Trump, no mandate to cut Medicaid. I didn't mind him as much.
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And other forms of protest, some Democrats wore pink, some held up auction-style paddles that said false and Musk steals. A few walked out during the speech. One lady was wandering around, this is not normal behind Trump. It was juvenile. It was so, oh, they were trying to make...
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Fetch hacking, like completely. The whole thing. If you call someone Hitler, wearing pink is not the response, people. I'm sorry. It's just not. The only person I did think was a good job was Senator Alyssa Slotkin gave a Democratic response after the speech where she talked about the dangers of Elon and Doge. I thought she did an excellent job.
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Let's just listen to her and then I want your response of what you thought.
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Thought she was great. That was the only high point is a really nice response and a very clear centrist, very, very focused on the audience, which is the American people. So tell me what you thought about this and what would have been an effective strategy here.
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The signs. I was like, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. This is not going to be a viral moment. This is so bad.
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I miss all that. I miss all that here. But I do a lot of walking. I do a lot of walking. And like the, you know, it's such a, it's a weirdly diverse place. You know, there's all kinds of different people from countries all over the world. And I kind of like that. It feels very, even the smaller cities like Adelaide just feel, Just really interesting.
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It's not the place for it. It's not the place for it.
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I like a good protest. I thought it was a loss for us. So what would be effective in the strategy? Just sit there quietly? Or is there an effective strategy? I mean, obviously, some people are doing things. Pete Buttigieg is appearing everywhere, it seems like. What would be an effective strategy from your perspective? Judge Carville's saying, do nothing.
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Play for dead for right now because you're not going to win anything. You look stupid.
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I literally said that to Saul the other day. He was like running terror at the house. I was like, do you do this at school? He goes, no. They won't let me. Yeah, no. Yeah.
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That's what the Republicans would do. That's what the Republicans would do. And they did, you know, that's what they do. I agree with you. I thought it was embarrassing. I thought they're trying to create a viral moment. It was sort of like, hey, kids, look what we're going to do. And people should be relentlessly critical of this, of what they're doing. It doesn't have any discipline.
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I mean, in a weird way, they kept shooting to Nancy Pelosi, who did sit there quietly, by the way. Did you notice that?
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She looked sour, definitely. But I have to say, I was thinking, this wouldn't happen under Nancy Pelosi. I'll tell you that.
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I'm just saying, she ran that place with the Democrats very tight. She had them tightly organized. I thought Hakeem Jeffries did a bad job. He had no control over these people. And again, if you think this guy is Hitler, that is not the response. This is something much more significant.
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Yep, I agree. I had a really interesting back and forth with Mike Birbigli over this because they sent him Fetterman slams Dems unhinged protest during Trump's speech. And we were going back and forth, but what Mike was pointing out when we were going back and forth is they're not thinking of the audience, right? They aren't thinking—for some reason—
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And maybe because it's sort of a familiar environment, and yet it's not. Anyway, I love it. I went and saw the Sydney Opera House. I took walks. I did the whole thing. I did it. I love it here. Last time I was here, I took my boys, Louie and Alex, and I were here.
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The Democrats do not think of the audience, of, like, what the audience is hearing and seeing. And they just weren't thinking of, you know, how to hit back in a way that's effective in some fashion that shows—they feel so non-genuine, and it feels so—it's such a weak and sad, you know, response. I don't know. It just—
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Do you want measles? Do you want these hacker kids fucking with you? Do you like paying more for eggs?
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And be ubiquitous with the messaging. I mean, it was interesting. I have an idea for Kamala Harris for a podcast.
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So I think she should do a podcast called Recently Unemployed with Kamala Harris and go around and talk to people about the economy, go to places she's not welcome and make herself a nuisance, like in that regard, like talk to them and go around. But I was thinking all of them have to feel like they're listening to the American people, right?
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That they're listening and they're present and they're responding and listening. I know it sounds like Bill Clinton really listened, felt like he was listening. I don't know. That's...
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Did you say hi? Say hi to her. Say I'm Kara's friend.
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I don't agree with you. I think she was just beginning to be—she improved a lot. I don't think she did that bad a job.
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Well, a Democrat has to step up and feel ubiquitous in the very least. and feel like they're speaking to Americans, right? Again, I think that's Mark Cuban, as you know.
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Yeah, Fetterman is. Fetterman is. Not everything that he's doing I like.
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No, sometimes he can be obnoxious. He could be a little nicer. That's all I'm saying. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll discuss the latest on Trump's trade war.
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Scott, we're back with our second big story. U.S. automakers got a one-month break from Donald Trump's 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico. The tariffs went into effect on Tuesday, roiling markets and creating headaches for companies in the U.S. and around the world. Canada quickly announced retaliatory tariffs. With the very handsome Justin Trudeau doing it. Mexico is announcing countermeasures.
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Yes, I didn't see any kangaroos this visit.
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She's also fantastic, the president of Mexico, this week. China is also taking action after Trump added 10% to existing tariffs. Trump acknowledged his address to Congress that there would be a little disturbance from these tariffs, but he's okay with that. But then he turned it around, which means he only wants to sort of threaten American interests. it felt like.
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He's trying to, like, let certain people in and pay homage to him and this and that. So stocks have been on a roller coaster, as you noted, over the last few days, with Dow falling almost 700 points on Tuesday. The markets rebounded on Wednesday on the news that automakers were getting the exemption. It's such a fucking game. It feels so deep state and manipulative. And anyway...
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We'll see more exemptions. And if you're a CEO right now, it would be very hard to know what to do. Target and Best Buy CEOs are already warning about price increases. And is the rest of the world just going to start doing business without the U.S. if these tariffs continue? Warren Buffett looks like he's sick to his fucking stomach. The first time he didn't respond...
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He said terrorists were ridiculous and it's a tax on the little guy. But then when someone asked him about the economy, he's like, I'm not going to comment, which is bad news because Warren Buffett always gives the straight scoop on things. What do you think?
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Interesting. See, you need to come here. You know a lot about Australia. This is great.
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Crazy stuff. There was—what was it? Sledgehammers? It was like a bunch of—like something else that was so strange. I had no idea it was made in Canada besides maple syrup. I got that one.
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So what about these exemptions? Because a lot of people feel that he is sort of trying to get companies in line with him, like, make sure you're on my side.
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Mob boss. That's what it feels like. Deep state mob boss, like, hey, you know. You pay me.
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You know what else we could do besides going around in stadiums? You and I could do our tour, and then for the last part, you and I go to the Outback, and only one of us comes back. What do you think?
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Not innovation. Again, not innovation. Not making better cars or making better anything. It's this ridiculous bullshit. I mean, the face of Buffett really haunted me when he was talking about it. Like, he's not a young man. And he's like, it was like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm 100 years old and you're pulling this shit.
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This is like a little economy professor joking. As if.
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Do you know what's going viral is from Ferris Bueller? You know, they had the Smoot-Hawley section.
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Anybody? Anybody? Anyway, there's a great scene that's going around where he talks about Smoot-Hawley, and it was a disaster, and this is going to be a disaster, and then they're going to do exemptions, and then it doesn't matter, and then they're mad at us, and it doesn't matter. The whole thing is just, ugh, it just is so embarrassing. It's just embarrassing, right?
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So, I mean, this is where, speaking of rubber meets the road, when these prices go up, it's going to be problematic. And again, Democrats need to focus on that. Guess who did this? Donald Trump. Guess why eggs are more expensive? He tried to put the eggs on Biden, but he gets the eggs. Trump take egg is the other meme, by the way, the viral meme.
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Anyway, the world will move on without us is what they'll do.
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Because if two of us went out in the outback, only one of us would come, who do you think would make it?
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Cherry tomatoes, apparently. There was a whole bunch of really interesting that I had no idea to learn about. Anyway, it's a bad idea. We think it's a bad idea. And Aswath, I had Aswath on talking the same thing. Every smart person I know is like, this is... And now it's being run badly.
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The tariffs are even being run by letting people out, putting people in, and that means you don't have any credibility about it. It's a stupid negotiating tactic, and you think it'll work. And the same thing happened with Zelensky, where... He threatened him, and now Zelensky has to apologize. That's not a good outcome. It doesn't matter that Zelensky folded.
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The fact that he had to fold is pathetic. The same thing here. The fact that they put them out and then take some back, it's not a good tactic.
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You know, getting back to that thing, a lot of his points during that thing were things that sound good in concept but aren't ever going to happen. And it's lies, ultimately. Anyway, it's time for last week's poll results, by the way. We asked each of you which of our hosts would end up dead on a season of White Lotus.
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I did. I watched it on a plane. I was very pleased. I was very proud of you. I was very, like, I was very proud. You did a great job. And you're reading, thank God Jason helped you on that one.
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But the answer was 56% of you said Scott would end up dead on a season of White Lotus. 33% of you said both of us, and only 11% of you said me. No surprise there. Not a surprise there. Moving along, it's time for this week's Threads poll. Do you guys in the audience think Elon will end up doing an interview with Jon Stewart? He should. We think you should, Elon. Go ahead. Go into that lion's den.
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It'll be just fine because you're very strong. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I shall go first.
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I'm going to say, I was going to talk about, there's a really great column by Mike Masnick in Tech Dirt talking about how he writes about tech a lot of the time. And he's written a wonderful piece about how He's now a democracy blog, and he was talking about the importance of tech reporters to really explain what's happening. And I agree with that. I think Wired's doing a great job.
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I think the Wall Street Journal has done a great job, and New York Times has, and a lot of publications, big and small. So I think that's the thing. But actually, I'm going to actually say something I watched on the plane. I binged.
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watched it it's called Running Point our friend Justin Theroux is in it he's fantastic but the star is Kate Hudson and this most astonishing group of very funny people it's about basketball essentially it's about it's a group called the LA Waves it's about a basketball owner and it's kind of like silly and stupid and a bit of an ad for basketball how good sports is, kind of a feel-good comedy.
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Highway to help those people? The Highway to Help People?
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And critics don't like it because it's not mean and how terrible it is. But I loved it. And I think Kate Hudson is the most adorable person ever. And it's very, very, very funny to me. I love this show. It's on Netflix again. And I get it. I get why critics don't like it because they're snotty bitches. But I had a great time at watching it. And I watched, I binge watched the whole thing.
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And again, Justin is amazing in it among the many actors in it who are amazing. Every single person is. But he does, he wears a, I wrote him, I said, your scarf work is excellent. He plays a basketball owner, basketball team owner. Anyway, I love it. It's really fun. My negative, I'm trying to go between, I try not to talk about people's outfits, but it's very hard this week.
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I'm trying to go between Elon's new haircut, which is, again, a very lesbian-level haircut from the 80s, and Zuckerberg wearing Benson Boone's powder blue jumpsuit for his wife Priscilla's birthday party. I try, Scott, but they need to stop. These people need to stop because I can't contain myself. I think it was so performative.
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Everything is so performative with these people, and I want them to go away. Like, go away from us and stop posting themselves doing wacky, crazy things. And it feels a lot like Rome is burning and they're fiddling. So that's why I think it offends me in so many ways. Besides being so awkward, it's painful. I didn't want to see Mark Zuckerberg's chest in any way, and there it was.
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And it was hard to avoid. Anyway, yours? Go for it.
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Yeah, you did. Took it a little too far. But look, you know, and I can say I really like, the only reason I want to do the Outback, I'll come back and I'll go, a dingo ate my Scotty.
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That's good. That's good. Just in case. All right. Okay. All right. Very good. Just in case. Oh, my God. We're going to Austin. We're going to Austin. Are we going to have a good time? That's my win. You and me in Austin. I miss you. There we go. We're going to have fun. There we go. We're going to hang out. There's a party. We're going to do a live pivot.
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I have to also interview Chelsea Handler, who is the number one book in the country right now, and Elizabeth Warren. Yeah, I'm doing two live things there.
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They're not going together. They're separate. Although I could put them together, couldn't I? No, I'm not going to do them separately. Anyway, elsewhere in the Scott and Kara Universe this week, this week in Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with Dr. Anna Lembke, professor of psychiatry at Stanford and author of Dopamine Nation. Let's listen.
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Oh, wow. It's Thandie. It's Thandie, just so you know. Anyway, back to Australia. We love Australia. We love Australia. And you and I are coming here. All right, Scott, we've got a lot to get to today, including Trump's tariff roller coaster and how the Democrats' resistance tactics keep falling flat. But first, let's talk about Jon Stewart and Elon Musk.
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You could fill that space, but go ahead.
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It's on brand. Go ahead.
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It's also, you know, it is. And it's another thing I've been talking about here. It's frictionless, right? It creates a lack of friction. And friction is good for it. And tech people constantly talk about frictionless experience. They want everything frictionless so that you just sit there.
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and don't go anywhere, and it creates growth for them, and it creates, friction is the best thing that can happen to people, like problems, friction, mistakes, and stuff.
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We get to see the two of them sit down for an interview after an ex-user suggested that you should have a conversation. Musk said he'd be up for it if, quote, the show airs unedited after Stewart accepted, and obviously the show is always unedited, Elon. Musk proceeded to call him a propagandist, saying he used to be more bipartisan and sort of backed away.
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I'd rather have them have sex than have porn. That is absolutely true. Anyway, here we are. And Kate Hudson's adorable. She really is. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We will see you in Texas, in Austin, with a live pivot. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out.
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Let's listen to Stewart's fantastic response.
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Yeah, that was good. That was good. That was good. You know who's doing really well? I think comics have, like, Stuart and Bill Burr has been really funny. And Bill Maher has kind of been up to, like, Chelsea Handler. All of them are really handling it, like, really well, I would say. Like, in a way that's funny, approachable, and also very pointed. I just, I find them funny.
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I don't know, for some reason, quite good. I don't know if you do.
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I don't think he's going. No, no, he's not going. He's saying he's too bipartisan. He's such a chicken shit.
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I'll fight you anywhere in jujitsu.
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No way. No, because he can't keep up. Stewart's too fast and too sharp for him. He's not... I think people should realize, I mean, Elon's not, he's a very smart person, but in this regard, he is not. And Stuart would run circles around him in a way that would be embarrassing.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
I saw you were at Mobile World Congress. Like, I haven't been there in years. Unbelievable event. Huge event. Yeah, I haven't been there in years. I used to send reporters there. And what were you discussing? I saw you on the stage looking very comely, by the way. You look very fit and...
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
Oh, wow. Yeah, people are super—everything is linked to tech right now, of course, which puts it in our wheelhouse in a lot of ways. And I think, you know, especially abroad, they're sort of absolutely confused by the whole thing, and they don't know what to do because— You know, they endured Trump 1.0, but this is something far different for them.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
And even in our own country, a group backed by Musk is spending millions in Wisconsin's Supreme Court election. Like, what is he doing over there? Ads run by the group highlighting progressive values appear to be coming from supporters of a Democratic-backed candidate, but instead come from conservatives. Musk's America pact is the biggest outside spender in the race.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
The outcome of the election will have major implications in Wisconsin, as the core is expected to face issues surrounding abortion, voting rules, and unions. liberals gained a four to three majority two years ago, if you remember that, and after 15 years of conservative control.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
I heard from the people who are backing the woman candidate for the judgeship, who are working really hard, who won the last time they had this fight. But the money from Musk is, this is where you're going to see it all across the country, people that are against Trump in some way, this money is going to move in like crazy.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
I mean, this is so obvious.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
I'm behind in AI. I would like this to happen. I agree.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
They do. They do. I think they actually believe some of their nonsense. Anyway, speaking of which, it's not just Musk. Google is urging officials at Trump's DOJ to back away from breaking the company up. Reps from the parent company, Alphabet, argue that breaking up the search engine could have national security repercussions. I'm sure of that not.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
As a reminder, the Biden administration called for Google to sell off Chrome and make other business changes after the judge ruled the company to be an illegal online search monopoly. A federal judge has set a rule on what Google must change at a hearing next month. But the judge is going to decide this. But they put a donation to Trump's inauguration and
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
You know, these people have been running from regulation for decades, two decades now. And here is what I consider a minor thing, a minor change that other industries have not been able to get out of. And here they are doing the same thing. So it's not just limited to Musk, although he's the most egregious example of it. But they're all sort of pay to play kind of stuff going on.
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Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart
I didn't want to see Mark Zuckerberg's chest in any way, and there it was. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and it's tomorrow where I am Scott Galloway.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Well, they move very quickly is the problem. They don't quite know where they're going. They have the advantage here in that regard, is they can show up at various places and you don't know where they're showing up.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I get it. The issue is, even when the judges stop them, though, they say, oh, we have security clearance, but no proof of it. Like, they're persistent. Elon Musk has said to me. Move fast and break things. It's Mark Zuckerberg. That's correct. This is what they're doing. And, you know, like Elon Musk has said to me, we have self-driving in a year. We have self-driving in a year.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
We have security clearance. Anything, like one of them was like, how do you know they don't have it? I go, because their mouths are moving. They're lying. They lie as a practice in order to get to the next thing. They're high risk takers. they're willing to, they know you're not going to stop them, ultimately, because it takes effort. They don't want to govern. They want to break.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And even though they're in charge of the government, they don't want to reform it. They want to break it. They want to destroy it. They want to take it down to its studs so that they can then rebuild in the way they see fit. And the The arrogance of these people, I cannot tell you. You could like fuel a rocket to Mars with the arrogance of these people.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And what's interesting is there's a bunch of lawsuits filed, as you said, as part of the counteroffensive. Unions, federal employees, and others are challenging the legality of Elon and Doge to get access to federal systems, destroy agencies, or push people out of jobs. I'm telling you, Elon also loves a legal fight, right? He doesn't care. He doesn't care. He waits people out.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
This is perfectly designed for someone like him to behave. And every one of his... actions is very much the way he's behaved. That's one thing. You know, when I said, he's not going to listen to that, he's going to go to the next one. And someone was like, how did you know? And then he did it. And I'm like, because this is his little act, right? This is the same thing every time.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
He's not particularly creative in new methods of this kind of stuff. But one of the things that's important to keep in mind is that he does have a pattern of that he does all the time, and so do all these people, by the way. They all have the same pattern of making a mistake, whether it's for your teen girls and making them feel bad and going, we're so sorry, we're so sorry, we're so sorry.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And I think that's the one thing that's not fully appreciated, that they're not sorry, nor will they pay attention to the law, even if a court orders something. You know, right now, court orders Musk out of the Treasury computer payment system so it can sort out whether the Doge is a legal government entity. You know, are they out? They were in there before.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
You know, that's the whole thing is I don't know if they're actually nobody knows that they're out. And then let me say the last thing what they're going to do is find little cherry pick costs. that look bad, right? And make things up because they just lie. They just lie.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Money laundering or they're criminals. This thing about subscriptions and Politico, it was $24,000 at USAID. They were using their Politico Pro just like you'd buy a subscription. And may I point out that Elon, the government pays Elon $15 billion. So everybody, for his wares. And then they, so it's petty and unbelievable nonsense. And they'll cherry pick stupid little things.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
A lot of them inaccurate, like the condoms to Gaza, for example. A lot of them deeply inaccurate or based on stories that are specious. So they'll keep doing that constantly so that we're like cats chasing a laser pointer.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
May I say the media is doing the same things. These headlines in some of these papers, it's like innovative way to deal with government. I'm like, it's a coup. Stop saying this. And one thing I did have as a theme in my book was the juvenileization of men and the coddling of them and persistent sidelining of women in Silicon Valley and people of color or anybody that was different.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And this is a 30 years going of this idea that these people... have the right idea. And I found some stories that I wrote. One was called The Men and No Women of Facebook, and The Men and No Women of Boards. And one of the things that was interesting is I was able to put those headlines because I controlled my own media. You can't believe what a bunch of idiots. They have such disdain for people.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And the press is treating it like it's an equalized thing, and it's just not. I'm finding it so frustrating. I even, you know, I, you know, I'm on CNN and on Friday I was like, this is a hostile takeover. You need to treat it. Stop talking about DEI and the plane crash. You can talk, right? Stop. You need, this is what this is. It's a hostile takeover of government, probably illegal.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And you can't look at it like, well, look at that kind of things. I just, I'm perplexed as to why it isn't a five alarm fire everywhere, all day long, every minute in the media. Yeah.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Why don't you just go down to Washington with the gang that's taking apart the government? I think they probably have some information on how to do that.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
They will be prosecuted by this Justice Department, because all they're doing is getting rid of the threatening companies that have DEI. That's the first thing Pam Bondi did.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Yeah. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump continues to flood the zone with crap. Support for Pivot comes from 1-800-Flowers. Roses are the classic way to say I love you, and with Valentine's Day coming up, you can start planning the best way to say it. I'm sending roses right now to Scott Galloway.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
two dozen roses so you can get double the roses for free. I just got my roses here and I'm looking at them right now and I have to say they're very beautiful. I like cut roses. I don't like cut flowers that much, but I happen to love cut roses. They smell delicious. They look fantastic. And it's a great Valentine's Day. It's a classic. It's a classic, as they say. The bouquets are selling fast.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
You can lock in your order today. Win their heart this Valentine's Day at 1-800-Flowers.com. To claim your double your roses offer, go to 1-800-Flowers.com slash pivot. That's 1-800-Flowers dot pivot. Scott, get ready for dozens of roses.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Scott, we're back. And President Trump is making all sorts of headlines this week. Trump surprised pretty much everyone with a plan for the U.S. to take over Gaza and turn it into a Middle East Riviera, Mar-a-Gazo. That's the joke, which is not funny, actually, though some administration officials are walking that back a bit. His cabinet nominees are Kate Jr.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
and Tulsi Gabbard appear to be on their way to confirmation. He's reportedly getting closer to an executive order abolishing the Department of Education. He's doing everything by executive order because he doesn't want to bother with legislators. Questionable executive orders, I'd say. We talked a few weeks ago about the strategy of flooding the zone with shit.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Let's talk a little bit about this and how people can avoid falling into the trap of distraction, Trump throwing up these crazy ideas and orders while Elon is making this power grab. It's quite coordinated from what I can tell, although I don't think Trump knows what he's doing. Courts have done a few things to keep them in check. They're stopping him from He already was in the Treasury.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Now they're saying get out of the Treasury. Who knows if he will because, again, liars, all of them. A federal judge did block the birthright citizenship order this week. But then Trump was busy signing executive orders outlining plans for a government-run sovereign wealth fund, which would potentially be used to buy TikTok. That's called state-run media.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
The fund would also support other national endeavors like infrastructure projects. I, you know, I don't know what to say. I talk a little bit about the strategy as a marketing thing. I hate to say that, but this is, he's, and then we have a story in the New York times. It's like, well, it's good that he's shaking up the difficult problem in the Mideast. Maybe it will create fresh ideas.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Now I was sort of like, what? Like moving people against their 2 million people against their will to where they've lived their whole lives is a, fresh new idea, especially because Gaza is absolutely destroyed. Again, they destroyed it and now they've destroyed it, they can't go back, that kind of thing.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
All right. Listen to me. You can't disassociate. There's no disassociation allowed.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Well, here's the problem. Ketamine. I know, ketamine, exactly. But this plan, literally, Israeli defense minister said his instructed military to draft a plan to allow voluntary departure of Gaza from residents. The only way they're leaving is if you ethnically cleanse them. And I know- None of it makes any sense. You know, it's funny, like one of the right-
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
You can't. You have to be in this. You got to like, everybody's writing me like, I can't keep up. But I'm like, you know what? It's the long fucking run with these people. You got to stick in there. They rely on your exhaustion. They rely on you being overwhelmed and you need to not, you need to just keep going. Why do you want to disassociate? You have to associate. That's how we win.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Most of the conservative think tanks are sort of like, oh, dear. Like right now, if you look at some of they were like, no, this government thing isn't good. This Gaza thing isn't good. And they're like, don't be hysterical and use the term ethnic cleansing. But I'm like, only the comedy shows are getting it right.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Like The Daily Show, they have different euphemisms for what it is, like, you know, voluntary departure or. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
We associate. They're disassociative people, these people.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Thank you. Why don't you do a happy drug? Like not one that's so ruminative.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I don't know. I never take any drugs, so I have no idea.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Well, then do that. Do that. Do that. Yeah, I don't know. You'll try to hug me. You'll call me and say loving things, which would be disturbing to me, but that's okay.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I know, but there's a lot of hugs happening. I never took it. I never took it. There's hugs, right? There's a lot of hugging and dancing.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
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Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Oh, interesting. I don't know. Never tried it. Never will. I'm high on life, Scott Galloway.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
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Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Although, let me say, I'm looking out the window right now. I just got back on a red eye from Los Angeles. I was in San Francisco, Los Angeles.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Can I just make a note here? Real competitor, and this is me talking to Hollywood people yesterday, is YouTube. Oh, 100%. YouTube is the competitor of Netflix.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Thank you. I'm wearing the same clothes. I was out to dinner at a very fancy, the Mother Wolf in Los Angeles. Have you been there? It was really good.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I think they're going to do a lot more originals, FYI, but go ahead.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I have a secret project going on there, another secret project, which will soon be revealed. But it has to do with lesbians in Washington. That's all.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And can I just make a point? They also put out so much content that's pretty good, right? It's not, none of it's really, one of the way, someone was telling me a story who was with last night, who used to work at Google with Susan Wojcicki, the late Susan Wojcicki, and they were thinking about getting into originals and they walked her through.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
the economics of Hollywood because she wasn't familiar. She had been very successful at Google and she had just taken over YouTube. They walked her through it and she got up and she goes, this isn't a business. Only one hit carries all the losses. Like she was like, she immediately clocked the problem, right? Like she goes, this isn't a really sustainable business if you don't have this one hit.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And she goes, why are they operating like this? And she was, I think she had insight into the idea that if you had a lot of little hits or spread it out with stuff that people... like you would do a lot better. And that's what Netflix has kind of done here. They have nothing, every now and then they have a big one, but all the others are fine.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And they help sustain the fact that it's a good product. You find efficacy in the product. You find pleasure in the product. Same thing with Spotify. At its heart, It's a good product. I don't know what else to say. It's like enjoyable to use. You find what you want. Maybe it's not like soaring like an HBO can be sometime, but every now and then it is.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And it's, so that's, you know, it's a good, I don't know what else to say. It's a good product. Like that's how I feel about both those companies.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I, unlike you, I do very short trips and I come back on red eyes. So I'm here. I took the kids. I took Clara to school this morning and made her lunch, made the kids lunch. I get back so I can do that. One of the, I went out, you know, I went out with two people, my brother and friends of mine to Zuni, which was amazing.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And a decent product, a decent, pleasurable product. Oh, it's a fantastic product.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Yes. It was great. San Francisco was great.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
You're right. It's on top of it. I got to say, Waymo is so integrated into San Francisco now, and you're going to see it all over the country. It's so convenient. And they live together with Uber, by the way. That's in a very comfortable way. I took both in San Francisco this week, and both were great. Prices are still too high for all of them.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And I know they need to make money and stuff, but it's a really interesting time. You're right. Dara's done a nice job here and there are no competitors really. And I mean, Lyft is sort of a competitor, I guess. Anyway, one more quick break and we'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. Okay.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Oh, really? I don't mind. It was a lay down bed. I slept. That's fine. That's fine.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
You know, I'm wearing my aura ring and it tells me that I'm quite ready for the day. It's weird. I don't sleep.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I would leave you. I would scold you. I would. I'm going to make a very brief prediction. You know, there's a lot of new polls out. The Economist had a poll that back in November, 47% of those surveyed Republicans says they wanted Elon Musk to have a lot of influence in the Trump administration, while 29% wanted a little influence. And 12% want him to have none at all.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Yeah. I don't know why. I think it's lying to me. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to because I need to be rested and ready.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Today, the number of Republicans who say they want him to have a lot of influence has fallen substantially to 26%, according to this story in The Hill. Meanwhile, 43% of Republican respondents said they wanted Musk to have a little influence. and 17% they want him to have none at all. I see that, but I have to tell you, I had thought they would have a falling out.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I think he is, as I have said, he is little pussy for Trump, the mob boss, essentially. He is the heat shield. He is the junkyard dog. And I think Trump understands this intuitively. There's one thing about Donald Trump, he has an intuitive sense of things. Musk is good for him because he gets the shit done, even if it's illegal and he's willing to. And nobody else is.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And as much as these insiders are going to complain about him being bigger than his britches or overstepping, I think maybe he might be around a little longer. I think I was wrong about that falling out. I wish I wasn't.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
But I do think even if people are indignant, this guy has a, everything has shown when everyone thinks Musk is going to lose on the pedophile case or with the SEC, he's got an ability to not just to take risks, but also take ridiculous, heinous risks, but to also stick it out. So I don't know. I think Trump recognizes that it's good to have a junkyard dog. You're my junkyard dog.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Can I tell you, Amanda's always like, Scott used that word wrong. She's like such a word person. Several times you've used words that- She means I used it incorrectly. Incorrectly. That's correct. Yeah. Anyway, she's often doing that to me. I'm like, did he? I don't know. She's like, you need to tell him. I'm like, I'm not telling him. I forget. I completely forget the minute she tells me.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
All right, I'll tell her. I'll tell her she can be your spelling lady. Anyway, elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, which is growing by the second.
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This week on Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with Mo Gadot, the former chief business officer of Google X, bestselling author and founder of One Billion Happy. Let's listen.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
That's a good one. OK, we've got a lot to get today, including Democrats finally showing some backbone and Trump's plan to create a sovereign wealth fund. This lunacy is every single day. I forget what. Yes. Well, anyway, plus earnings from Disney, Alphabet and Spotify. But first, I think we know both know why Google searches for the word coup are up this week.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Right, that's correct. Who the fuck is Elon Musk? Who the fuck are any of these people? But that's where we're going. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Read us out.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Elon Musk, who is now a special government employee, whatever the fuck that is. has had a very busy couple days, essentially shut down USAID, offered buyouts to every member of the CIA, and his Doge team got access to the IT systems of Medicare and Medicaid, NOAA, which is weather agencies, and other agencies.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
We're going to talk about Trump and Gaza and the craziness in a bit, but I want to start by focusing on Elon. Overall thoughts, what we've been seeing, Trump still thinks he's in control, saying this week Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval. You'll be shocked to learn that Senator Susan Collins is very concerned about Elon and Doge's actions.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
People at the Trump White House, they're leaking all over the place that he's too big for his britches. I'm like, when did you start to notice his pants were tight, my friends? He's totally too big for his britches all the time. You've been saying, where are the Democrats? They're starting to show signs of life, protesting Elon's power grab at a rally outside the Treasury Department.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Some House Democrats are trying to subpoena Elon to testify before the Oversight Committee. They're making a lot of trouble. The motion didn't pass. It probably will pass at some point. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy was on Morning Joe talking about the game plan. First party, let's listen.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I think he's been pretty good. Jamie Raskin has. Obviously, AOC is terrific. So talk a little bit about the Elon situation and making, you know, they're making him the villain so that it sort of offloads it from Trump in a weird way. He's sort of the, I'm calling him a heat-seeking shield for what they're doing. But, There's protests that have popped up around the country.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
It doesn't mean anything's going to happen, criticizing particularly Musk. So talk a little bit about this and what the Democrats should do.
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Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I think they did that on purpose, from what I understand. They wanted it. What Scott's referring to is they're sending emails, not in a way that's safe, to the White House. They wanted things like that.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
Well, you know, they're trying to, the local officials are trying to make that official. The newly installed Trump are threatening people for naming their names, just so you know. But go ahead.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
No, we get that. I think repeating it doesn't matter because they are blowing through stop sign after stop sign. It doesn't... See, this is a very typical... I've talked to I would say a half a dozen governors, senators, congresspeople this week. And they were like, well, we're going to say something. And I was like, he's going to break the rules. Like I said, you don't understand.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
He's not going to stop because you tell him he's bad. There's no way he's stopping. And like, look at everything he does. He blows past the SEC. He keeps going. He does lawsuits against the press. He does lawsuits against competitors. He blows up rockets until he gets it right.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
I was like, this is a person with a high risk tolerance who has noticed that when you break things or break rules or open your company when the government of California says not to, they don't stop you, or it's very hard to stop you.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And in the very act of doing it, even if he gets stopped later by a judge or whatever, because legal is slow moving, as you know, even if he gets stopped later, he's already broken it, right? Instead of reforming things, Which is what they should be doing if they don't agree with this stuff. They're destroying them. And if you read any Peter Thiel, any of their stuff, this is what they talk about.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
The destruction of a liberal democracy. And then starting from scratch with a unified CEO theory, which is essentially a dictatorship. And the question is, a lot of them are like, what do we do? They're literally asking me, what do we do to stop him? I was like, I just don't, I was like, you don't, you actually don't have the means to do so because these poor people are in these agencies.
Pivot
Elon Pushback, Trump's Distraction Trap, and Disney Earnings
And when these idiots come in, these children, these arrogant little pricks come in and say, we're going to call the federal marshals or the president has ordered you to step aside. They kind of have to, you know, you have to be resistant and be walked out by security. And then security doesn't know which one to listen to, right? Essentially. Yeah.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
That's one of his tricks, by the way. He does that in interviews all the time. Show me a specific example, and then I have 10, and then he goes, show me a specific example. It's just, it's exhausting.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
He burns PR people like you can't believe. And he had some good ones many years ago, right? But he, obviously, PR is critically important to him. He wants to be seen as the center of attention, you know, when he seems like a nuisance. And he pretends to be funny when the only person that's funny is his daughter, Vivian, right? Who's actually funny.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
That's correct. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I am the very nasty and openly lesbian Kara Swisher that's according to my number one fan, Megyn Kelly.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Repellent, isn't that a good word?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
It is, and I think one of the things that I heard one Republican making is they don't have any game below Donald Trump, because I think he's still popular with the people he's popular with, period. And I do, you know, I think that if he's not present, their bench gets real thin and really irritating. Like, you've got the charmless J.D.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Vance, you've got the sad, soulful Marco Rubio, who looks like a loser, you've got, like, there's no game. And then crazy Howard Lutnick, like, you know, he seems like Crazy Eddie from the old days. And it just, it doesn't have, if Trump's not present, it's really hard, like, for them to do anything. And at some point, he's not gonna be present.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Scott is off today, but in his place, I brought in someone who Megyn Kelly might also take issue with, and obviously will, the host of Crooked Media's Pod Save America and Love It or Leave It, John Lovett. Welcome, John. Hi, good to see you. Good. Did you see Megyn trying to flirt with me online? Did you see that situation? I...
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Interestingly, in contrast, New Jersey Senator Cory Booker invigorated Democrats this week with a 25-hour speech in Congress against the Trump administration. Booker is now in the record books for the longest speech in Senate history, surpassing Strom Thurmond's stand against Civil Rights Act of 1957.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I have a serious question for you, but first, let's listen to Senator Booker explain how he managed not to go to the bathroom for the 25 hours.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
So an impressive accomplishment of not peeing. But why do people like this? It's got a huge following. Lots of people watched it. I was sort of surprised by those numbers. It had a, you know, Mr. Smith goes to Washington quality to it. But why do this? Because sometimes, I'll be honest, Booker does a lot of stunts that I'm like, oh, a stunt. But this was a good stunt, I feel like, in some ways.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
And I don't mean to minimize it by saying stunt. But, you know, it is what it is. He's trying to garner attention and get focus.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Right. What are we getting? Does that raise his profile as a presidential candidate going forward? I mean, he's always been bandied about as that.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Seriously, what is the deal? Did you understand I like LGB, but not T?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah. It was interesting. When I was in Michigan, a lot of the students were asking me who was going to run. It was sort of surprised. I'm like, oh, I don't know. And then maybe go through the various and sundry people. It was interesting. They certainly are interested in looking over the Democratic Party in that regard. He definitely raised his profile.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
The book, the this, the that, the peer at Harvard.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what works. Okay, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, it's Trump against the world with these new tariffs.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I don't think she knows what Q is or plus. What is plus? What is Q?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
John, we're back and recording on the day after Liberation Day. Do you feel liberated?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
President Trump unveiled his latest tariffs, the most expansive yet, at the White House on Wednesday with the help of a giant poster board. He's imposing a 10% tariff on all U.S. trading partners as well as double digits. He's calling them reciprocal tariffs. They're not, just so you know. About the worst offenders, he seems to—nobody thinks these are good things, and the math is, like, nuts here.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
The EU will face 20% tariffs, Japan 24%, South Korea 26%, and China an additional 34% on top of existing tariffs of I think 20%. Russia conveniently didn't make the cut. Trump also is slapping tariffs on unexpected places like some uninhabited islands in the Arctic where only penguins live. People are having a good time with that. The EU, China, and others are already planning retaliation.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
He's been very flip-floppy on terror, sort of red light, green light, which caused chaos, and now he just dropped the bomb. He really did essentially drop the mic. The markets opened just a little while ago. The S&P dropped 3.4%. The Dow fell 1,200 points, more than 2%. The Nasdaq is down 3.8%, big numbers.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
A number of sectors are getting hit, but in terms of tech specifically, things are looking rough right now for tech, particularly because they're so invested across the world. Apple's down over 9%, Amazon down 8%, Nvidia down 6%, Alphabet down 4%. U.S.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
tech companies are becoming collateral damage when it comes to retaliation, getting hit with fines, restrictions, and new taxes by major markets worldwide. They also have obviously interconnected with so many different markets. What do you think of this rollout? Peter Navarro is back, my friend. He's back and he's crazier than ever.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah. I didn't make a response to the New York Post when they called me for one. I felt that was the right way to go, didn't you think?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
That he's trying to do it. Chris Murphy had that in his, I'm going to read from some of it. Chris Murphy, who's been very vocal, just like Cory Booker, the senator. Those trying to understand these tariffs or economic policy are dangerously naive.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
The tariffs are a tool to collapse our democracy, a means to comply loyalty with every business that will need to petition Trump for relief, which many people are. And what he was saying essentially is that this gives him power, and the reason he can is because he's taking control of spending and taxation into his own hands and rewarding loyalty and punishing dissent.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I called her a rage machine last week on the show. Right. Because she is. She just yells at everybody. And, you know, and she wasn't, she... I hate to say this, talking about Elon Musk, they weren't exactly like this then. And so it's kind of a shock. What happened is she had canceled on the show and we had back and forth, back and forth.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Our own revolution was spurred by the king's use of heavy taxation on the colonies to punish our push for self-governance. The king's message was simple, stop protesting and I'll stop taxing. What do you think is happening here? Besides, even Scott Besson looked like an idiot, and I don't feel like he is.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
And I think I wrote sort of to the staff and her person, like, when are we going to do this thing? And then the person said, our sister died. And then I wrote, I'm really sorry. So the whole thing is, I didn't know, right? And then it was ridiculous. Of course, I'm sorry, her sister died. It's just very strange. I think it was just an excuse to yell at me for a little while.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
implications right now, right at the beginning of this? Obviously, the stock market's down. Obviously, Wall Street's screaming. So are farmers. So are everybody screaming, essentially.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
uh they they're being asked to reduce their tariffs that don't exist below you know this is about a trade deficit no and the i think the one thing that's not being noticed is service terror service issues because that's tech companies and we are in a not a deficit we're in quite the opposite where we have the advantage there by i think 300 billion dollars um we're in a surplus in that regard and now they're now europe is going to target the
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah. She has a podcast network like you guys. Did you know that?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
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Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
And I think people then, and that's what Joe Rogan was doing. Wait a minute. I have tattoos. Just a second here. All right. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the latest in the bid for TikTok. I know you're fascinated with TikTok, John. I am. John, we're back with more news. President Trump is reportedly reviewing proposals for TikTok this week.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Obviously, the administration is said to be considering bids from Blackstone, Oracle, and Marc Andreessen. Amazon threw in a last-minute bid. It actually makes sense. It's probably not a top contender, but Walmart was in the last go-round here. Oracle was, too. The TikTok ban requires no more than 20% of TikTok or its parent companies owned by foreign adversary countries.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
So they're thinking about letting ByteDance stand for 19%, apparently. I'd love to know, you use TikTok a lot, correct? Well, I'd love to do a day in the life of your For You page. But what do you think is going to happen here? And there was an interesting story, which I think there's sort of a poll that's been cast over for TikTok on this, like where it's going, who's going to own it.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
A lot of people feel that if they don't get the algorithm, it's not going to be as good. As a product, it's lagged a little bit recently. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it feels like it a little bit. that creators aren't putting their shoulders into it the same way. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But how do you imagine it's going to happen here? I thought Elon might get a hold of it.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Maybe not a good idea to give it to Elon right now from a perceptible point of view.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Right. Well, China has to cooperate here. And now with these tariffs, I'm not so sure they're feeling cooperative.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Right, that he was in M13 or whatever, that he was a gang member. MS-13, excuse me. And then he wasn't, right? It was just like nonsense.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
The law that it should. They didn't make the case. Many people argue that.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Show me your homework. Show me your homework.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Really? You have recipes and Conan O'Brien?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
You know, that's Scott Galloway's favorite, too. Just so you know.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Rocking their delts. What do you imagine is on mine? I don't use TikTok that much, but what do you imagine?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
No, no. You'll be surprised. ASMR. ASMR. ASMR. I love ASMR and cooking. I like watching people cook. I like watching people. I don't want to do recipes. I just like watching people, especially there's one on threads called food porn that I love. Do you cook? I don't. I do. I'm a good cook, but I don't do it very often as much as I should. But I like watching other people cook. That's weird.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
But I used to watch the Galloping Gourmet when I was a kid. I'm not going to go into it. Okay. Remember him? Then he drank at the end, drank himself under the table.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Galloping Gourmet was a guy who seemed gay, but wasn't.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Look at that. Yeah. He was like Julia Child, but funnier. I used to watch him cook all the time. Then he'd always drink a bottle of wine by the end of it, and it was very amusing to an eight-year-old.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I bet you like Paula Deen. I bet you secretly like Paula Deen.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
They are never in. They've never been in. Anyway, what do you think the resolution is going to be? Make a prediction.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
It's a nothing burger. You know, it's owned by a lot of U.S. people.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
people own a lot of this thing. And then it's not going to be any more protected if there are problems with China. And I, unlike you, believe there are indeed abuses by the Chinese, and they're a little different than China. I believe that. I believe that. I agree.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Mark Zuckerberg is dangerous, but I don't really want the Chinese government also up in our grill in this way because they have different goals besides just fucking us. They want to fuck us and beat us kind of thing. And, but I think that they, it's going to be more dangerous than ever in those regards from a national security point of view.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
And they won't solve the problem and then everyone will make money. The people that, the same people you're complaining about, but. We'll see. I don't think Elon will be part of this, but maybe he will. Maybe he'll get him. He's such a nuisance, he'll probably try to get in there. All right, John, one more quick break. When we come back, we'll be doing some predictions.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Okay, John, let's hear a prediction. Do you have a prediction for us?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Because he'll lose the mayoral election. He just announced today he's going to be an independent.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
What job will he get? I guess, who are they going to take out?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Oh, my God. They're all moving here. Speaking of moving here, I'll tell you what I'm pretty pissed about. Supposedly, Elon's leaving. I don't think he is. He's such a nuisance. He's going to stay. Apparently, Mark Zuckerberg bought a $23 million mansion in D.C. So he's here, too. I moved here, John, and they followed me here. The stalkers that they are, they're all here.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
And it's all the bad ones. The ones I liked are not here. The bad ones are.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
That's true. I get it. I get it, honestly. Although $23 million seems cheap for a house in Milwaukee, like one of the big ones. But he was supposedly lobbying Trump to avoid the antitrust trial. I'm not so sure that's going to work. Because ultimately, as dislikable as Elon has become, Mark Zuckerberg has always been dislikable.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
And I think he polls, you know, all those polls show they still don't like him at the White House. They still don't like him. But anyway, he's here. I'm so excited to see him at brunch or over drinks at Cafe Milano.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
They're not going to leave their houses. I mean, unless there's some MMA fighting or something happening, he'll not be going anywhere. But we'll see. I just don't want them here. I'd like them to leave, you know. Already, I'm not thrilled to be here, but here I am, and I actually live here. You're not thrilled to be there? I like it. I like it. I like it. You should try LA. I love LA.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I love California. I cannot get my wife to move us back to California.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I have this beautiful new studio you're seeing behind me. I like DC very much. It's very lovely, and you've spent a lot of time here. But I really miss California so much. That's for you, right? Los Angeles. I love Los Angeles. It's so beautiful. Despite all the problems you've been having lately, it's still, I was just in San Francisco. It was gorgeous. It's wonderful.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
So anyway, I will not go on about that. John, one thing before we go, is there something you're watching or reading that you love lately? I mean, everyone's talking about White Lotus, obviously, or Severance. Is there anything else?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
That's interesting. So go rewatch that. I'm going to give the recommendation Hacks is about to come back. And I love Gene Smart and Hannah Einbender. Yeah, they're amazing. It looks hysterical. And I think they're the best pair of like, speaking of conflict, the two, the most fantastic pair that I never expected. So I'm very excited for that comeback. Anyway, okay, that's the show.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah. The guy, that was the gay barber? Was that the gay barber?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week with more. And Scott will be back from his college tour. Just so you know, he hung out with my son and his frat yesterday. And I can't wait to hear that story. But thank you so much, John.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
You can hear John on Podsafe America and Love It or Leave It every week, wherever you listen to podcasts. They're wonderful podcasts. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Anderdot engineered this episode. Jim McIll edited this video. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. And John, thank you so much. Thank you.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's just ridiculous.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
It's evil, all of it. Well, good for John. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. It's really kind of a dark time at the same time. It's tons of material for us to talk about and tons of things to get up in arms about, about what's going on. And we've got a lot to get to today, including Trump giving the middle finger to the rest of the world via tariffs.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
with these sweeping new tariffs, which seem ridiculous, and every economist on all sides is pretty perplexed about the whole thing. And plus, what's next for TikTok? But first, President Trump has reportedly told his inner circle that Elon Musk will be transitioning out of his administration in the coming weeks, according to Politico.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
The White House is denying the report with Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt calling it garbage in a post on X. Elon also waited on X saying it's fake news. We'll get to Elon's role in Wisconsin election in a bit, but the big picture of Elon is indeed beginning to step back.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
What do you think about the move in the timing, the 130-day tenure as special government employees due to end in late May, early June, whatever that is? It might be time for him to focus back on Tesla. The company shared its dramatic numbers this week, dramatically bad. Sales plunged 13% in the first three months of the year, the largest drop of deliveries in history. Nobody wants it.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Obviously these protests are counting, but also the fact they don't have any innovative cars. What is, from your perspective, what's going on here with their communications? And then what happens when he's not in his orbit and stops the day-to-day government business that he's doing and what will happen to Doge when that happens?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
In Scott's absence, just to finish it up, I'll note he predicted Elon's exit and the end of Doge just a few weeks ago. Let's listen.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
So talk a little bit about this. What do you imagine is happening here?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Yeah, I had talked about the idea of a heat shield that he does, like he wants to do these things and not get blamed. And it is interesting that Elon has such bad negatives. I think Harry Enten on CNN said he's political poison for anybody who's near him. And we'll talk about Wisconsin in a second. But And he's much, but Trump has less negatives, even though he's his boss, presumable boss.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
So he does, heat shields are not the worst thing in the world. You know, someone, as you said, rampaging through the government. And I think one of the things I had said, you know, when these reports came out and when the Wisconsin thing happened, they were like, OK, that's it. I'm like, no, no, he's not. He doesn't care about a failure. He'll make it not a failure.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
He'll pretend it's not, which he did here. And then he'll move on to his next disaster, this kind of mess, and he doesn't care. I think the issue is making a nuisance of himself, making himself the center. And in Wisconsin, he was by himself, right? Trump wasn't physically present there the way he often is. And so with Elon as the center of attention wearing that cheese head,
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
It was kind of like the caucus and the tank. You remember when he had that picture or any of those unfortunate pictures or around the Santas and the boots or things like that. But so let's talk about the Wisconsin election where despite spending $25 million, Elon was unable to buy a state Supreme Court seat.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
You can buy a presidency for $200 million, but you cannot buy a state Supreme Court seat for a 10th of that. Democratic-backed candidate Susan Crawford handily beat her conservative opponent Brad Schimel, maintaining the liberal majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. She's replacing another justice who is a liberal justice.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
In terms of the other elections this week, Republicans did keep those House seats in Florida, replaced Matt Gaetz and Mike Walz through margins were significantly narrower than in the last election. The strategy making Elon the enemy was effective in the Wisconsin race. I think he's just irritating. And though he didn't help himself, as I said, with the cheesehead hat. What is the playbook?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Because he's not always going to be there to beat up on. And of course, on Sunday, he said the entire destiny of humanity hung on this race. But he later said, I expect it to lose. There is a value to losing a piece for positional gain, which I'm calling downward facing doge. Right. What is happening here? Because I'm trying to sort of like, is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing?
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Like, I'm always quite wary, even when these people lose, of how much they actually lose.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
I call him repellent. He's repellent to voters.
Pivot
Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett
Why is that? Why is it? Obviously, rich guy, rockets, this and that. What has happened here?
Pivot
Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
And what if he stays? Very briefly, what if he stays? What should he do? Because he's the only one who can do his flimflammery around the robots.
Pivot
Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Yeah. Okay. We'll see. We'll see what happens. He looks like unhappy to be back working on that. He seems entirely unexcited by it, which is hard to do. I understand that feeling of you don't want to keep doing the same thing. Tell me about it. But he made a disaster doge, so he's going to make another disaster here because he's uninterested.
Pivot
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Speaking of flimflammery, President Trump sat down for a contentious interview marking 100 days in office with ABC News' Terry Moran, who he's never heard of, apparently. It was so ridiculous. Some highlights, I gave you this chance, Terry, and you fucked me.
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In regards to Pete Hegseth, the president remained optimistic, but when asked, he wouldn't say he had 100% confidence in him, calling it a stupid question, which is his go-to. Trump dismissed backlash to tariffs, saying they were just what people voted for and everyone's going to be just fine.
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When discussing the case of Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, this was a whopper, whom the administration sent to El Salvador in error. Trump referred to a Photoshopped image of MS-13 on Garcia's knuckles. Let's listen.
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Oh my God, he's such a negger. It's so amazing. Like, neg, neg, neg. But let me say, it was photoshopped. He doesn't know that that was trying to say the tattoos on there represented MS-13, and someone put those to give reference. And he's insisting that MS-13 was actually on there. It was... And total addlement, or just lying almost continually. Everything he does, he breathes, he lies.
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Any thoughts on that interview?
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I'm going to get a whole bag of weed. That's what I'm going to do. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. I flew all night and boy, are my arms tired. I did a joke.
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Otherwise, you're... Here, I'm going to push back on this.
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So I feel like in that case, the constant lying, this is Biden's, you know, GDP drop. This is this. It's just, you cannot let him continue to make things up. It's literally, although what I got the vibe was as an old person, it literally brought me to an argument I had with my mom. Like, no, it's this. No, it's absolutely this. And I was like, it's not.
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He did. He did. I was going back and forth on it. I think he should have pulled the picture out and said, Mr. President, these numbers were put on by Photoshop to indicate and been polite that way. This was not actually on his fingers. Here's the picture of his actual fingers.
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Desi Lydic made fun of it.
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Yeah, because he said the Declaration of Independence was about unity and desolate. Like, that is the only thing it wasn't about.
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D.C. to San Francisco.
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I told you the well-behaved guy in the old folks home and Trump's the one that's like, where's the soup?
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He does think he's doing great. It's really something.
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He feels really old. I don't get that.
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No, but it's like, well, you don't have an elderly parent you're dealing with. who's absolutely certain they didn't block Amanda on the phone. I did not. Like, she blocks my son. She pushes somebody. It's the longest running argument we ever have. I'm like, you did it. No, I did not. The phone did it. That's what it feels like. Anyway, I'm not going to go into it, but that was a long argument.
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Indeed. I'm so excited.
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And I don't know why I have to be right. I should be like Terry Moore and like, okay, let's move on.
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Yeah. Anyway, lastly, a federal judge dismantling Apple's control of the App Store and ruling said that Apple violated orders in a five-year antitrust case bought by Epic Games. In a previous ruling, the judge ordered Apple to allow apps to use external payments to avoid 30 percent commission charges.
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The judge accused executives of lying, saying Apple created a new system forcing external sales to be charged 27 percent commission. Now the judge says Apple may no longer take commissions from sales. outside the App Store. Let me just say, I do not understand this because Apple won almost everything except this one thing, and they did not follow it along.
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I know, you're wearing the Bill Maher thing. It's very attractive.
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Now, the App Store is a large part of Apple's $100 billion annual services revenue. I don't imagine it's an enormous blow because it's difficult to do those outside external sales, but it seemed like a real error on Apple's part here to do something petulant like this, given how much they won.
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We'll talk about that in a minute, but go ahead.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
So why would they do this given they really did sort of win in this case, except for this one?
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I have no idea. It seems like, well, they just don't want to do it. I just don't want to do it. Like they're going to just challenge it. And now, of course, the judge is saying, well, they'll appeal it. These people know how to appeal, I guess. I assume that's what they're going to do. Anyway, it seems to be a real unusual error on their part to do something petulant.
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I mean, I can see petulance from Mark Zuckerberg or Bezos or any of them, but not Tim Cook. But here we are.
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And it doesn't appear... They didn't really win. It was more in Apple's favor. But in this case, now they're able to do what they want. We'll see how much that sticks. I mean, I think Apple's playing the very long game with Trump and everything else, the quiet long game. Anyway, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. Go and get back.
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Its sleek lines and a commanding stance define the exterior of Equinox EV, while the no-compromises interior has a cargo room and storage that let you do you at a starting price of around $34,995. Equinox EV, a vehicle you know, valued, you'd expect, and a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. Learn more at chevy.com forward slash Equinox EV.
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Based on latest competitive data, the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees, and optional equipment. Dealer sets final price.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Scott, we're back. Microsoft and Metashares are up both after companies reported quarterly earnings that beat Wall Street expectations on Wednesday and how. Microsoft sales surpassed $70 billion, up 13 percent from a year ago. The company's Azure Cloud unit posted a 33 percent revenue gain. Meta sales grew by 16 percent year-over-year to $42 billion. Net income was $16 billion.
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I'm doing none of this. I am in and out. So good there. I am in and out. I come back to San Francisco because I have to get a second award and also do a charity lunch thing.
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The company isn't slowing down on CapEx spending either, boosting its forecast as high as $72 billion. This is mostly around AI. Of course, the weak spot continues to be that first shift that Mark made. Meta reported $4.2 billion in losses from its Reality Labs division. That's why they call themselves Meta. It also announced the launch of Meta AI this week.
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It's a standalone AI app to compete with ChatGPG, makes sense. So far, the company's avoided getting dragged down by tariff chaos, which is interesting. We'll see if it goes on. Mark Zuckerberg addressed the concerns about tariff impact in his earnings call, saying, I think we're well positioned to weather the economic uncertainty. I think advertising is an open question.
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Just for people to know, Amazon and Apple earnings coming after we record, so we'll dig into those next week. But talk a little bit about these earnings, each company. Let's start with Microsoft.
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Can I just say with Microsoft, Satya Nadella, I think, even though he's the quietest of them. And by the way, if you've noticed, he hasn't sucked up to Trump. He's just doing his job kind of thing. And of course, his job doesn't have that much. The interaction they have has to do around national security and everything else.
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And they do have, let me tell you, that's where their big weakness is around security issues, around their software, et cetera. But I have to say he deserves much more credit than Trump. Almost any CEO in terms of really making this company shine. I'm always impressed with him, especially how he handles things. He manages not to lose his soul every five minutes.
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I am. I'm doing charity.
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But go ahead, which I think is hugely impressive. Mark Zuckerberg really knows how to run a company. He really does.
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Yes. Oh, they're the main guests. Yeah. And then Kevin McCarthy and I are on the panel.
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But can I just note something? It's the best data. Like think about Twitter data. It's not good data. Like, you know, it's kind of all noisy, but this is all people moving and using and relatively behaving. I mean, there's all kinds of problems on this platform, obviously, but go ahead.
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What? I don't even know. I don't get it. It's fine. Whatever. Whatever.
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Look, we all have our issues with Mark Zuckerberg, and it's deserved, but man, can he run. He's like a Gatesian figure. Remember how well Bill Gates ran?
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Brilliant business person. He wore those glasses everywhere, the MetaGlasses, which were popular. I don't think they're an enormous business for them, but he does the walk. I mean, he looked, he didn't look, he wore them everywhere this week, which was smart. It was smart that he did it. He didn't look as dumb as Elon looks in a hat, but I would agree.
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I think it's really astonishing what's happening. You were noting, and I was thinking about it the rest of the week, was Google has so many good businesses within this company, so does Facebook. I like threads. God, I do, I do. I like it for, it feels like Instagram a little bit easier, like essentially. And I'm on Blue Sky. I like Blue Sky too, by the way.
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But there's so many good products in this term. I think the two dings on them obviously will be their deleterious effect on the entire world. And this trial, we'll see a lot of people, you know, I've been talking to a lot of people. Most people, and I agree, think it's a relatively weak case that they have competition now and they're just, doing very well with the competition.
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But a lot of other people think they're going to lose, and it's going to be like Microsoft, right? It's not going to really matter. And they won't spin stuff off, but we'll see if they have to spin things off like an Instagram or a WhatsApp. It would certainly be interesting if they did, as you and I have talked about. Anyway, good job, Mark Zuckerberg. We have to give it to you.
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And again, we'll talk about Amazon and Apple earnings. We both think they're going to get hit.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Yeah, I know. I don't know why. I don't know why.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Yeah, we'll see about that. It'll be interesting. And it'll be interesting to compare Amazon and Apple with them. But speaking of economic uncertainty, President Trump is blaming former President Biden for the U.S. economy contracting in the first quarter of 2025. Suggesting in this cabinet, this ridiculous cabinet, meaning that Q2 will also be tied to Biden. He's going to blame Biden.
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If he does an ass kiss the way the Trump cabinet did yesterday to him, the suck-uppery. It was like, you know, Ann Coulter even was like Kim Jong-il.
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He mentioned Biden like 912 times or not that many, but a lot. He's taking the same stance on markets, writing on True Social on Wednesday. This is Biden's stock market, not Trump's, even though he claimed it was Trump's stock market back in 2024 when he wasn't president. The market was doing well. He was calling it Trump's stock market.
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He's also telling Americans to be patient but acknowledge there will be some consequences from his tariffs. Let's get to the doll situation.
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Oh, my God. It's true. Whoever said that. This idea that, I mean, look, that may be true. I agree. I have too many fucking toys in my house, and I wish I had, like, many less. But it's none of his business if people want $30. Americans are used to products on the shelves and open, whatever open means empty is the word he's looking for.
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Toy manufacturers are already warning about a Christmas toy shortage. Factories in China produce nearly 80% of all toys and 90% of Christmas goods sold in the US. He's making a point, yes, we shouldn't consume as much. The man who consumes more than anybody, who's just like a giant maw of consumption, is lecturing people. His whole administration is doing this. They're very on message.
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Well, you don't need that stuff. You don't need it. And that may be But how do you think it's going to hit with people, especially if there are empty shelves, not open shelves, but empty shelves?
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I know, and then shows off his gold in that Terry Moran interview, by the way, he showed off.
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So why did he make it? I mean, and then it was echoed by all his people. And then blaming Biden. Obviously, he's going to use Biden as, you know, 10 years from now, he's going to say Biden was the reason. What is, I mean, I don't think people are thinking of Biden anymore, you know, or mentioning, although his voters have a very astonishing, they are now echoing this.
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There was a lot of interviews I saw where they're like, yeah, we got to buck up, like we're in the middle of the war too, and the Nazis are headed our way, like that kind of mood of something like that.
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Consumption is down, too. They're both things together. But go ahead.
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I don't know. I think these people sound like they believe it. They do. They were such suck-ups. And then crazy, RFK Jr., you noted that, the whole thing about child trafficking.
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Yeah, because I just interviewed Wes Moore. He's the governor of Maryland and a very handsome man, as you would say. Wes Moore, he's going to be a presidential candidate. And he was talking about the knock-on effects in Baltimore in terms of like truckers, unloaders, people around it, restaurants around it. It's just going to reverberate all over these economies in California, in Maryland.
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New York, you know, of course, these are all blue states, but still, it will have so much reverberations around the country. And then it just keeps having knock on and knock on effects. Anyway, I don't think he can keep blaming. I agree with you. He can blame him for a short time. But this is just nonsense lecturing people on how many dolls they should have.
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I agree that we shouldn't have so many choices. But that's my personal opinion. And he's the president of the United States. It's none of his business to tell people what to buy.
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Mainline firms.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
You're absolutely right. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. Speaking of Amazon, when we get back, we'll talk about Jeff Bezos bending the knee once again. It's not the first time to Trump.
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And then the whole child trafficking thing, what was he talking about? What on earth? They must sit there and be like, that's like one of the, it's so weird. It is like North Korea. It was crazy. And then himself with the dolls. Nobody can have any dolls. You can't even have two dolls.
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Scott, we're back. President Trump is calling Jeff Bezos very nice and a good guy after phoning Bezos to complain about a report that Amazon was going to show how much of an item's cost comes from tariffs. The White House initial reaction was a press secretary, Carolyn Leavitt, also known as Tracy Flake, calling Amazon's plan a hostile and political act.
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And while Amazon first said the pricing plan was only being considered for its budget site, Amazon Hall, in a subsequent statement, the company noted the plan was never approved and it was not going to happen. They kept changing their story. Trump later told reporters that Bezos solved the problem very quickly, so it clearly was on deck to happen who knows where and which part of Amazon.
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Their credibility has declined rather significantly with this incident. Bezos has, of course, been making nice with Trump for a while. Now, back in December at the Times' deal summit, he said he was optimistic about Trump's behavior in his second term and completely wrong. Let's listen.
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I guess he wants him to go to his fancy wedding in Venice in June, I guess. What do you think of this? Obviously, he's going to do it. You predicted the Fortune 500 CEOs and business leaders were going to start standing up to Trump. This is not what happened here.
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And it looks like Paramount is going to do the same thing, Sherry Redstone, to settle a ridiculous baseless lawsuit in order to make nice to get that merger through. Was the initial Amazon plan a good idea? Should companies be transparent about these prices and put them on? Some companies are doing this. And there's an antitrust trial coming up, obviously, for Amazon.
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It didn't work so well for Mark to kiss up because it's still going forward. Senator Elizabeth Warren sent a letter to Bezos on Wednesday asking whether he received any promises or favors from Trump in exchange for scrapping Amazon's plan. Thoughts?
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Yeah, you did.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
He's such a caver. He's a caver. He wants all the Trumps to be at his wedding. Like, are you kidding? He's gone. Jeff Bezos never was there, but he's gone now. He's down the Mar-a-Lago Highway and he's living down there, you know, much more so even than Elon, I think. I don't know.
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I'm good with this blank slate. I'm good with the rocket stuff that he's competing with, but whatever. They never fail to disappoint these people. They really don't. They just don't. I just expect disappointment. You're like that. This time, you're like, this time my boyfriend's going to behave and show up and pick me up.
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He sent an Uber for me. The stripper loves me, I swear. I swear she loves me. You can go to a strip club, Scott, but she doesn't.
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We should do a tour.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
All right. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions, Scott. Have a good one.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
It was something. It was something. And we'll talk about it more. But seriously, it was so like, I've never seen, I mean, you're supposed to be sort of peppy at those cabinet meetings, but not like that. It was like, ew. And the thing is, Donald Trump was the craziest of them. And I was like, this is like they were competing for crazy. And once again, he wins. He wins the prize.
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Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction and listen up. Time for something new. We want to hear your predictions. Send us your predictions, 30 seconds or less, and we'll play them on the show if they're good. And if they're, well, if they're dirty, we'll probably play them too. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a prediction for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.
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I wanted to create some competition for Scott. So Scott, up your game today. Let's go.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Cooper. I think it's Cooper. Yeah, I've met with the CEOs. They've been at it the same way they've been at the Rocket stuff, but Cooper.
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In this case, like when he's always saying he wins at the golf club, this time he won on that particular. Praising himself. He kept adding to their praise. Oh, don't forget the fireman. Don't forget the this.
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Yeah, that was run. I forget who used to run that company. I met with him several times. They've been trying it. Everyone is trying to catch Starlink, obviously, and it's a great opportunity to do so.
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You know what? I've touched a Cooper. They brought one to show it to me.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
But as usual with Tesla, same thing. People are coming in and they're going to give him a run. And if he's not on his game, Elon Musk. He's got a lot of competitors headed his way because he's shown the way. And just because you've shown the way, Elon, the planes are covered with the bodies of pioneers, as everybody well knows.
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It is, but I'm just saying, so was Tesla three years ago, right? And then now there's lots of competitors.
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That's correct. You can't take your eye off the ball. He's lucky. In that company, he has a good CEO, Gwen Shotwell, who is also much too obsequious to him. But nonetheless, she really runs that show, and that shows the good idea to have a good CEO in place.
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If he depends it and blames Biden. That was a joke.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I could crash and burn, but I hope not. I think I will. He likes me slapping him around a little bit, just like you do. Anyway, as I said, people, give your predictions. We want to hear your predictions. Send in the predictions. 30 seconds or less. We'll play them on the show, as I said.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit this prediction for the show and beat Professor Galloway or call 855-51-PIVOT. And elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with David Brooks. Okay, okay for you. I love, how can you, don't, don't. I do, I do. He's wonderful. Okay.
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No, I didn't. Sorry. Say it again.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
So many people don't. Are you not paying attention on the internet?
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I'm glad you, he's very smart. You're right.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I'm just not a fan. I'm sorry. I can be not a fan of David Brooks. I think he's just a lot. He's a writer also at The Atlantic too. Let's listen to a clip.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
That's a very thoughtful thought. He's right. He's right. He's right. I'm excited. I'll listen to it, I promise.
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It's a great team.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Good swag, too. Good food, good swag.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Yes, Susan's amazing.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I have to say, Bill Maher has a Sabbath stayed with him for a very long time. And it's a good reflection on him, even if you don't like Bill Maher.
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Scott has a team that's been with him.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
My code team, all things C team, was with me for 20 years, the conference team. They were all, for the most part.
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Nodding. They're hoping. They're hoping. We'll see. We've changed.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Okay, Scott. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Read us out.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I'm going to get a whole bag of weed. That's what I'm going to do. Listen, they invited you. Speaking of weed, they invited you to Club Random. They want you in that little—you should go for your book tour.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
No, it's like up in the hills at this beautiful house.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
No, no, it's comfortable. You'd like it. You could have drinking. You don't have to get high. You don't have to get high to get high.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Oh my God, Scott. I've been on five times. Everything happened to you in high school and it continues to this day.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
The prom thing. I told you I went to four proms each year, but I'm not going to go into it.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
And I'm not even gay. I'm straight, but go ahead. Sorry.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. I'm a little slow because it's early here in California. Beautiful sunrise happening right now. Lots going on. Microsoft and the Meta's latest earnings. Wow. Those were pretty impressive. And Donald Trump getting pissed with Amazon. And then when they kissed his ass, it was fine.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
But first, Tesla's board was reportedly looking for a successor to Elon Musk last month, according to the Wall Street Journal. The journal says the board got frustrated with falling sales and Musk's DC focus, you think, and told Elon he needed to publicly announce He would spend more time on Tesla. Tesla's board chair, Robin Denholm, denies the reports. She has almost no credibility.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
She just backs up her back, her trunk, and they fill it with money, posting on X that they are absolutely false. Not just false, but absolutely false. Meanwhile, Musk said goodbye to President Trump's cabinet on Wednesday, claiming Doge has so far saved $160 billion. It's pathetic, actually, and most people think that number is not even accurate. He did so wearing not one, but two Trump hats.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
It was so, so, so painful. Let's listen to the goodbye.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
More lies. More lies. That's the hat thing.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Yeah. Even though, you know, they would do well there. They were Murdoch there and stuff like that. So the Tesla, the hat thing, I just, it's so painful. He's worn several, remember he wore the big hat and then he had the gothic, like it's sad. He's 53 years old.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
I mean, we— Honestly. Tell me about the Tesla board thing. Now, they're denying it, but it makes—they have got to be open to lawsuits and everything else, even if Elon runs the place. But the numbers don't lie. I mean, and gravity is a thing. I believe they were looking for a CEO, or I believe they told him he needed to publicly say he's going to spend more time at Tesla.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Okay. Before I get to that, tell me, you've been on boards, I have not. Give me the strategy of leaking something like this. I think it, the journal has been right about the drug use. It was right about, they did a lot of board stuff, so they know that board that has been very accurate, has turned out to be accurate. They even did a story about him sleeping with Sergey Brin's wife at the time.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
Yeah, right. Anyway, I just feel like they wouldn't write this if they didn't have it. I have a lot of regard for the journal. And so someone on that board was telling them, or more than one person, or there was some messaging happening here to Elon himself. So if you're on a board, how does this look?
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
You don't. Okay. So who would be the CEO? You said that. I mean, who would do this? And more to the point, if he's running it, what does he do? What does he do? Except go on and on and try to do this hypnotic thing. And by the way, Henry Blodgett wrote a piece about my idea and likes it, the idea of merging Tesla with XAI, FYI. He said I rendered you speechless, which I did.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
So who would be the CEO or what should Elon do as CEO? Should they replace him? And if they don't, and he is the CEO and he stays, what should he do? Because he seems entirely uninterested in the business or pretending it's another business. We're going to have millions of Optimus Primes. This is a data company or we're going to have robo taxis. None of which exist. No products exist.
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Elon's Tesla Board Drama, Microsoft and Meta Earnings, and Bezos Bends the Knee
It feels like a Cybertruck part two, essentially, which was a huge dud, by the way.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Yeah. And what hit him? He had an aneurysm. Okay. And he had a bunch of things that he didn't know he had, and it just hit. He had a headache, went to sleep, didn't wake up, essentially. He woke up briefly when he was in the hospital, but I didn't see him. I didn't see him after that night. Wow.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And then when he woke up because of the damage at the time, today would have been a very different story. He probably would have recovered. But then they had very little knowledge of what was happening or ability to do anything about it. They knew about what was happening. And so he had lost his, much of his brain function. So he would have been a vegetable or, or akin to that.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
At one point he woke up and kept calling my mother pretty lady. Like he was, he went back, he reverted to childhood, which was. Interesting. I mean, what's known about the brain is such an incredibly complex and beautiful.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Yes, he became exactly. Because, for that reason? I guess, yeah. He had an opportunity to work at early Microsoft. He probably should have taken that job because all his friends who did now own islands in different places. But he became an anesthesiologist like my dad. My dad was in the Navy. He was poor or middle class and wasn't able to pay for college.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And so the Army, the Navy paid for college for him. And then he got out at 34 after he'd served the time because it paid for college and medical school. And so he then had to serve, I guess, 10 years. And when he got out, he had a great job. His first big job, bought his first big house. It was a head of anesthesia at Brooklyn Jewish in New York and died, just died. Right? Right then.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Right as he started. Yeah. Well, no, he didn't. He had the aneurysm at home and then they took him away and we didn't see him again. My mom did, but he died very soon after. Do you wish you had seen him again? Probably not. I wouldn't have remembered. You know, that's what kills me about memories. You don't really... You have bits and pieces of them.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
That's something I would love to figure out if you could access those memories. I've thought about being hypnotized and stuff like that, but I think you can't. I think it's like a computer. It just kills—the memories just flush out.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I guess. But are they accurate? What are you seeing? There's a lot of really interesting science fiction. I've interviewed several authors because it fascinates me, this idea of— figuring out what you can see. And there's Welcome to the Dollhouse author Jennifer Egan. She had another book. Yeah.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And her book was about a tech person who creates a way that you can store memories and access them and see them. And the only way you get access to other people's memories is if you store yours with them so other people can see your memories. Oh, interesting. And so this part of the book, which was really interesting, I love this concept, And would you do it?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Would you want to know those memories, right? Yeah. And so one of the things is this one girl has a day, her favorite day with her dad, and she goes back and sees it and she's like, oh, what a wonderful day. And then she accesses her father's memory and it is not a happy day for him. And she sees him, what he thought of that day, which was not good. And so that was devastating to her.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Like, do you really want to know what people thought of things? I mean, I don't know if you'd want to re-experience lots of things.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Just think of all the pictures and the photos and the videos that people take of each other. We do have a documentary going on constantly of our lives, right? And the question is, do you understand how you felt at the moment? Now, I have a memory drop like you cannot believe. Like, not for any good reason. I just, it's good for me. Everyone I go out with is like, don't you remember that fight?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I'm like, I don't. And they're like, I remember. And I'm like, well, I don't. Like, I just, out of my brain. And I'm like, I don't know. Was I mad at you? I don't remember. Right. And, you know, it's a running joke about people I've gone out with. Like, I don't remember. But you remember this was a fight? I'm like, can't recall.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Yeah, there's a theory of people whose parents have died at a young age or experienced trauma at a young age. So when you're a young person, very young, and one of your parents dies, half the people you know die, right? If you think about... your relationship to young kids, you don't have a lot of contemporaries at five years old, right? And so imagine half of your friends dying.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So if that happened and you sort of form, it's called highly functional. My brothers and I are highly functional. That's how I would describe us, actually. And the worst thing in the world happened and then you survived.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Oh. I have to say, when people ask me, people are like, what's your favorite? And they expect me to say Steve Jobs, which I also liked, or Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk. And I always say that interview was really one of my best interviews.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So you're like, oh, I'm not upset by that. Like, it's very hard to upset me. I was just thinking that the other day. Like, even the election, you know, my wife was quite traumatized. You know, like, oh, God. And I woke up. I had actually gotten sick then. I had a little bit of a flu, and so I went to sleep, so I didn't watch it, which is good. And I woke up, and she's like, oh.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I was like, oh, well, next. Like, I was much more in the, okay, now we're on to the next thing, and I think it has to do with that. I know we'll be fine or whatever. We'll figure it out or something like that. Right. Because you've survived and you're fine.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I mean, I think he went like, you know, he got rid of my dad's dog under very mysterious circumstances. My dog had a basset hound named Prudence and suddenly it was there and then it wasn't. And he got rid of it. And I don't know how. I still don't know to this day. I wish he would tell me if you're listening. You terrible person. How would you do that to children?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Now that I have children, I literally, if I could like hunt him on the Savannah, I would. Like that kind of thing. I think that, you know, you, he did all kinds of cruel things all through his life. Just if someone, he was jealous of us all. As a unit for a short time and therefore sought to I'm very I understand Trump completely is dividing people. I understand people who divide.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And so he was one of those people and stuff like that all the time. Very insulting. I mean, one terrible thing he did to my brother was my brother was quite. Jeffrey? Jeffrey was a bit arrogant about his grades. He had perfect grades, and then he got 800s on his SATs, and you remember those days, right? Oh, yeah. Right?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
No one cares now, but then it was a big deal, and getting into college was easier, but you cared more about those, weirdly enough. Yeah. And so my stepfather got all—he applied to a bunch of schools, and he got all the letterheads from all the colleges that Jeff applied to and sent him rejection letters. I know, right? Right? Like— Are you serious? I am serious. And Jeff got one a day.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And, you know, this was a 17, 18-year-old kid. Like, what? It's abusive. It's crazy. Oh, my gosh. I thought it was funny. My mother also thought it was funny. We did not think it was funny. My brother and I did not think it was funny. Why did your mom think it was funny? Because my mom's a bit of a sociopath, I would say.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You know, something, you know, just, just a narcissist. Again, I know narcissism. Yeah. And so it was, you know, cause she was in love with him. Like, you know, that happens a million times. Yeah.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And she's a narcissist herself. And so he's a malevolent one. I don't know what's going on with her, but partially malevolent. And so, you know, I never thought that was funny.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
My brother sometimes laughs about it now because he's older. He's like, in his 60s, he's like, who cares? He did great.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
But to do that to a kid, it went on like that. Like, you know, we lived with a lot of wealth and he would lock everything. Like, and he would tape things in the house, everything. He just, it was... Tape, like tape it down? No, no, no. Tape, put bugs in the house. So my brother and I used to make up drug deals all the time. I've never taken any drugs.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I'd be like, I've got the stash of cocaine and the thing. And my brother's like, okay, I paid 50 for it. We would make it up. But that made us resilient. I hate to say it. You get resilient through negative things, which is interesting. And did you guys have gallows humor? Yes, very much so. We also had very supportive. My grandmother was incredibly important to me.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Yeah, we did it in Los Angeles when I was there for my conference. And you were very nice because the studio was really janky.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
We had a lot of supportive people around us, too, at the same time. So, no, it's just I bounce back a lot quicker than other people because of all this.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I do think, you know, one of the things I realized when my son was five is how much he knew me. So I must have known my father very well, right? I don't remember it, but we were so tight. And my daughter and I, she's five, very tight. We know each other so well. Therefore, he imprinted on me before my stepfather could. And so I knew what was good. And there was no changing that.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And I do think kids get a lot in the first five years of their life. And so I remember my son turning five. I was devastated because I finally understood my devastation through my relationship with him.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
That's exactly the word that I was using. The microphone smelled like, I think like a Snoop Dogg.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And you understand. disaster and mortality at a very young age. A lot of kids go through this around the world in different circumstances. And one of the things, another thing that I think about a lot is mortality. I think about it all the time. Death is something that's ever present. I respond to it well. And instead of, I'm very aware of how long, short time we have on this planet.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
even if we live a long life. And so everything I do when I'm doing something and I sort of don't like it, I'm like, oh, I'll be dead in 50 years. I'm leaving. Like I have a very good decisive thing. Like I was in a job I didn't like. I sort of liked it and it was a very high profile one. And Everyone's like, oh, you have to stay. I'm like, I really just don't like it. I don't like these people.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And I decided to go. Like, I do that very quickly. I make decisions very, very quickly. And the person at this place was asking me why I was leaving because it was a high-profile job. And I said, you know... me, you know, just me. And I was trying to be polite as I can. I'm not very polite. I'm not impolite. I'm just honest, I guess. And they said, why are you leaving?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And I said, all right, if you want to know. And they said, okay, tell me. And I go, I don't want to talk to you anymore. And they're like, what? And I said, I have... you know, so many minutes on this earth. And right now I'm wasting them on talking to you. And I just don't want to talk to you anymore ever. And they're like, wow. And I'm like, yeah, that's really it. I'm tired of talking to you.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And I haven't talked to them since. Wow. I feel good about it. Okay. Yeah. And how do you... I like talking to you. You're not wasting my time.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I won't waste my time. I like walk out of things. I'm like, I have to go now.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It's not pissed off. It's like literally I'm aware of how many minutes.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You know, I always say to my kids, whenever they're super slow in getting to school, like putting their shoes on takes 10, 15 years. And I often go tick tock, tick tock, minutes of my life or whatever. ticking away and we're still putting on our shoes. Yeah. Like, let's get going. And they laugh about it. So they always go TikTok to me.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I have an app on my phone called WeCroak, which I love. It's a little frog. WeCroak? WeCroak. It's my favorite app on my phone. Look, there's one coming in. It has a little frog on it. And Bhutan, if you think about death five times a day, you're happier because you know. You're like, oh, I'm going to die. So I'm going to do this. I'm going to not do this. I'm going to make better choices.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It's a Buddhist thing. Like you realize that everything is ephemeral, right? That ultimately stuff, everything. Like I've never been a money person. I was offered a lot of internet. I would have been very wealthy. And I just didn't want to be with those people. And I know it sounds dumb. I make enough money. Like you don't need $10 billion if you have enough.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You know, I did the Succession podcast. Okay. And one of the great things about Succession, the people, the writers on it, all these theater writers, there's a lot going on there if you rewatch it.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
But one of the things they did really well was create, and I have witnessed this with all the billionaires. I know so many billionaires. I know so many billionaires. I can't believe I just said that, but I do. But one of the things they do, the people's worlds got smaller and smaller and more and more. So it's Kashmir prison.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So they were in tight places. And then they go from their expensive apartments that are like airless to their cars that are airless. to their planes that are airlifted. And they move and never touch anybody else. And this is what's happened to a lot of the internet people. They don't experience real life in any way. The thing they love to talk about in tech is, let's get rid of the friction.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
They're always like, let's remove the friction. And they want you to remove the friction because it's addictive. Frictionless environments are addictive. And you need friction in life to be a good person, to be an alive person. Why do you think that is? Because it creates, you know, edges are important because it stops you and it makes you, one of my favorite books is The Trial by Franz Kafka.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And it's supposed, everyone thinks it's about communism, but it's not. It is not. It's about existential crisis, right? And where you are. And the first line was, someone must have been telling lies about Joseph Cade because he was arrested one fine morning, something like that. The word arrest means to stop. It's about God stopping him.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And the last image is of someone trying to get him to stop, and he never does, this character. And I just think you have to stop sometimes, and you have to... Pay attention. And if you're in this wealthy environment, you just don't because everything is brought to you. Everything is comfortable. No one disagrees with you.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And you become a warped version of yourself unless you have incredible character. Elon Musk is the opposite. He's removed anyone who disagrees with him from his environment. Right. And therefore he's, you know, in desperate need of attention and love.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You're an asshole. Because I disagreed with him. In fact, in that instance, I hadn't, I had agreed with him, but he was so far gone that he thought any sense of tweeting something where I agreed with him of someone that disagreed with him was disagreeable. It was crazy. Yeah.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
He was. He asked me if I knew I needed to fix him up, but then I said no. Right. Because I thought he was nuts.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
This was pre being the richest man in the world. He wasn't right at the time.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
He has a great knowledge base in that area. And video games and things. He's quite good at video games. But yeah, I think, you know.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I mean, it's very easy. Why would I be hard on someone who has handled themselves with such grace? Yeah, so, well, thank you. Well, it's true. You made one mistake, big mistake, but you've acted better than pretty much everybody in this entire time. Never dropped a dime on people, never took advantage of it, did nothing. helpful things after, like you moved to doing the bullying thing.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It's interesting. I just, I'm not, I don't know if it was from there or just the way I was because I was never impressed by anyone unless they're impressive. Like I treat, I will treat a janitor like I'll treat a billionaire. Right. Just depending on the person. And by the way, there can be a lot of jerky janitors and a lot of nice billionaires.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Like I don't assume anything about them except that if you're very wealthy, you do have a lot of yes people around you.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I love my kids. It's the best thing I've ever done. It's the only thing I think worthwhile. If I had to pick, if you had to, you don't have to snack around things in life, but if they said, if you have to pick, it would just be the kids. That would be it. I've had a great career. I like my career, by the way. And I think it's great.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And so I think just having them, I've always wanted to have kids since I was very young. I bought, as I wrote in the book, I bought a onesie when I was in college because I was like, and being gay and having kids at the time was not something you thought you could do. So that was another thing. You know, you'd have to get married if you wanted to have kids.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And so I was very much intent on having children. And I don't know why. I just always thought I would be a good parent, and I think I am. And I wanted a lot of kids. And so when I got remarried— And Amanda was like, well, here's the thing. I want to have kids. I'm like, great. I don't have very many regrets. I don't have almost any except for this one, which was I wish I'd gotten pregnant again.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I liked being pregnant. I loved it, actually. It was one of the best experiences I've ever had. I know a lot of women don't, but I did. What did you love about it? It was so cool. It was so cool to have something moving inside you. I wish men could experience it. It'd be a lot nicer these days. Just the creating of life was really astonishing. It's a miracle.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You got to know your body better than you ever did. You understood it a little in a different way that I hadn't. We're so out of our body now. And in that case, you're forced into your body. I learned lots of different things, negative and positive.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You know, at the time when I was getting pregnant, I bought a bunch of sperm and I went to visit one doctor who was a man and he was like, ah, geriatric pregnancy is what they call it. I'm like, excuse, I pay attention to words. I was like, excuse me. Oh, well, you know, you work so much that now you might not get pregnant. And I was like, go fuck yourself. And I got pregnant the first time.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I like, we ran this thing like it was a space launch, like nothing's going wrong. And it was so offensive to me that I was like, revenge pregnancy. I'm going to get pregnant right away. And I did. And now I own a ton of sperm that I don't know what to do with. Same thing with my ex-wife. She got pregnant first time.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I did it the old-fashioned way, just an IUI. But it was just great. I liked it. I was like a little hippo. I liked Louis kicking me. One thing I used to love to do is I love Law & Order, so I watched it all the time. It relaxes me. And you know the ding-ding, that noise? So I used to—I was huge, and I put a sandwich on my belly because it's a great place to put a sandwich when I was watching. Yeah.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Because it was big. And every time there'd be a dung dung, Louie would turn. And I would love that. I'd be like so amazed by it.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You moved to doing things that were honorable and helpful rather than, you know, you could have gone a lot of different directions. I always think of directions people could have gone in when I do interviews, like choices they could have made and they didn't, which is, you know.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
No, he doesn't. He doesn't. But I was amused by the entire thing. So...
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Yeah, that was it. That was the one. It changes everything. It changes everything. I really think I'm successful because of it. even though I think I probably would have been less successful had my dad lived because I would have felt safer. But feeling unsafe is not, understanding lack of safety is a terrible way to learn things, but you learn them quick.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And you also learn that you'll be, you can put one foot in front of the other. I think that's the thing. And you have limited time, all those together. And then later when I had my own stroke, it was further emphasized that, like, guess what?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Anything can happen at any time. I'm very aware of randomness. I'm very aware of death. I'm very aware of chaos. And I'm comfortable with it.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Well, so does my son. So I have one over here that I don't like. It's a ginkgo leaf. Everyone thinks it's a shamrock. That's my first one. Yeah, I was going to say it looks a little like a shamrock. How would I do a shamrock? How dare you think I would put a shamrock on myself? Come on. I know, that's not very Kara Swisher. A ginkgo is the oldest tree in the world. It's one of my favorite trees.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Okay. And everyone thinks it's a shamrock, so I hate that tattoo. It also is somewhere I can't see it. Tattoos are for me, so it should have been on this side so I could look at it. And I enjoy looking at my tattoos. Well, maybe you should get rid of that one.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It's there. It's going to go with me to death. So then I got all my kids, which are Alex, Saul— Louis and Clara. I had Louis and Alex for a long time. Then I added these two. They're little hearts. They're like your Wonder Woman bracelets. Right, exactly. But then I put on these. Louis got me to do this. But I told him he could get them at 18. He has like six now. So this is entropy, chaos.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Chaos. Entropy and centropy are the two contrasting forces. As everything is destroyed, it is created. So everything, this idea that everything's on its way to something else is a really comforting feeling. Like every cell of your body is going to be an apple someday or whatever. I'm totally aware. You know, eating the worm of a fish, that King story or whatever.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So everything that's destroyed gets created into something else. And so the world is constantly push-pulling between creation and destruction. Indian, you know, Ganesh is like this. There's all kinds of stuff like that. And that appeals to me, the idea of it'll be okay long after we're gone. This will become this. This will become that.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And it's a very comforting—if you're not religious, it's very comforting. I'm not religious.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I think you're not going to like the answer. I don't think it is a superpower. I think the loss is the loss. And I have never recovered from it. I think of my dad every day. I understand the giant hole it left. And I've talked to a lot of people who have lost a parent or a parent who has lost their partner and then the kids are young and they're like, what can we do? And I said, nothing. Nothing.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
He was a wonderful person. It just was bad. There's no good. There's no good to come of it. And I guess, like, I'm resilient. I'd rather not be resilient. I'd rather not be that way. I'd trade it all.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Right? Not by choice. I mean, I wanted to be in the military, actually, but I was gay at the time. Speaking of Bill Clinton, don't ask, don't tell. Terrible. Yeah. I couldn't be in the military. And so it was... It was a disappointment to me. I wanted to do that. So it was impossible at the time. It was very different than it is now. And it may go back to that, by the way.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So I have this thing where I decide whether, Is their prickishness too big to account for their productivity? If they created something that was amazing, how much of a prick can I take? And I'm leaving out pedophilia and stuff like that here. But it's behavioral. Like Steve Jobs can be difficult. He parked in a handicapped parking space.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Now today he looks like a gentleman, and he was in many ways. But he was heavy on privacy. He created all these amazing products. So he has a product. He wins on productivity versus prick. right? His prickishness was not so bad. Other people's prickishness can go up and their productivity goes down. And so I just would do that. And that would be my justification for speaking to them.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Now I have, I've got to make a new one because someone was like, would you interview blank? Right. And I'm like, no. How about a chode chart? Chode chart. Yes. Like, would I interview? Because some people are just... bad narrators, they're liars. I have a hard time interviewing active liars. Like tonight I was supposed to be on a CNN panel and there's three people I have no response.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And I'm like, I can't, I just can't. And they were like, you're good, you know, you're good. At slapping them down, I'm like, I'm mad that I'm good at that. I don't want to be that. I don't have to be a... It's like, you're good at shooting people. I'm like, hmm, don't want to shoot anybody. Like, we'd prefer... I know I am, actually. And so I get claps for slapping down bad people.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Well, it's interesting because it's a very misogynistic. It's not even misogynistic. It's not anti-women. It's no women. It's different. Like some of them are misogynists, no question, but it's not quite as crystal clear as that. They think they're better. That's all. Like it's different than just hatred because it's very easy to do hatred, right? It's very, it's like, okay.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You're a terrible person. It's more the lesser than. And that's different. Is that hate or is that they just believe it? And they believe in themselves so much and their rightness. I always say they're frequently wrong but never in doubt. And they're so certain of what they're like.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Sometimes I think AI is really interesting to me because I'm spending a lot of time dealing with all these AI people. And they're the same people, by the way, FYI, who created our last internet. And one of the things I think about a lot is why there's a lot more men using AI than women. It's a really interesting statistic. Huh.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I have decided, this is my new theory, I don't know if it's right, men can't create life. They can't. And by the way, there's ways to be pregnant now without sperm. There's really interesting innovations happening there. Yes, there is. What? Yes, 100%. It's really, I'm doing, my next book is on all these things.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And so men can't actually create life and they can't sustain it to birth. Mm-hmm. AI is so they can make life. They want to make bots. They want to create beings. They want to create beings. It's their way of being pregnant. I know it sounds crazy, but I think about it. But is it also about the control? That's correct.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
But there certainly was a, if you were gay, even if you were out, it was a problem. And you couldn't be out. I mean, it was ridiculous. The whole thing is set up for ridiculousness.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So when you have a baby or you're raising a child, you don't have control, really. You do a modicum of control, but you don't. You don't know how they're going to end up. Yeah, yeah. What they're going to do, they're the most random shit. Kids do the most random shit. And you don't know what's going to happen.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
My son had to take off his coat four times yesterday morning because he didn't like this. No, I want to do this. You don't know what's happening. And you don't know why. And that's good. That's the friction, like I'm saying. And you can't guess it. You just can't guess what's going to happen next or which way they're going to go. And with AI, you can control it. Although now they can't sometimes.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
They can, but they can't. And so they are giving birth. That's why they like it, right? So why is it? So I just find it just, I'm thinking a lot around why is AI so popular with men? And it is. There's just study after study after study. And I believe it's them being pregnant, which is the greatest thing you can do, really. Creating life is really the top level. I think space is about that.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I think going to, you know, their penis rockets and everything else. Yeah, yeah. I do. I'm like, everything is about creating life, which they absolutely cannot do. They cannot.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
That would be it. You know? Maybe. Maybe. My kids being really young, I guess, again, my older kids being young, I really am enjoying. Doing it the second time with the age difference, I think I didn't relish it quite as much as I should have. And relish them as much as, I mean, I spent a lot of time with them now. We're very close. So I don't feel like I did a bad job.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I just wish I could go back to that. Go back in time and re-experience things. I'd love a time machine.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Yes. Right. Not just that. There was all kinds of ideas that gay people couldn't keep a secret. It was stupid. It was so stupid. Just the same thing. They couldn't be married. They couldn't have kids. All that stuff. Which is, again, gone now. But, you know. Yeah. For now. We'll see. As you said. We certainly can go back. Easily. Terrifying. They want it to go back.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It's part of the many issues of rage these particular certain Republicans have over what's happened. And that's right up there.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Sure. So one of the things I did when I was younger is I really, really wanted to work at the Washington Post, where I ended up working. But I went to Columbia Journalism School. And again, because I was gay, I didn't want to move to the South. That's where a lot of the jobs at newspapers were at the time. And I thought, I'm not going to. live a furtive life.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I just hated that idea because it's so debilitating to lie, right? Everybody knows that. It's the most debilitating thing. And lie to yourself, most of all. And so I was like, oh, I guess I'll start at the top of the Washington Post, but I couldn't get a job. And so the job I got at the time during the Reagan administration was John McLaughlin. Now, I am very liberal, although... Different.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I have different opinions about it because I want to be in the military. I want to serve. I'm quite patriotic.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
That's why it's so ridiculous to put people in these. Libertarian in others. It's so dumb to put people in boxes the way we've done now, unfortunately, to all of our detriments. And, and so I, I wanted to get into the media. And so I was offered this job at the McLaughlin Group. And he was this very, he started Screamy Cable Television, who was the, the god, the original. Yeah, I remember.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
And it was a very popular show. And so he needed someone to write his column. He had a column that he wrote for, I forget, one of the magazines. And I ghost wrote it for him, essentially. And then he would sign off on it and add different flourishes. And so I worked also on the show, on the insults. Like, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being nuclear Armageddon or just different things.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I was good with words and I was good with insults. And so I wrote those. And during the time there, it turned out he was a really significant sexual harasser. Of the old school. Yeah. The chase around the desk type, kind of the obvious one. Not the Pete Hegseth type, who was more rapey and creeper kind of thing.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
This guy was a creeper too, but much more of the old school, like, hey, honey, give me a kiss, that kind of thing. And very aggressive in that room, big guy. And he was that, and he was bothering a woman in the office, which I witnessed and testified against him later. But while I was there, he was also into controlling, whether it was where you were in the office or
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
he'd follow you to the bathroom to keep talking to you. Are you serious? Of course, because he was like, he was crazy. He was like, control was, it's all about control, as you know. And so he would line people up by height and say dust ball, and someone had to get it under the couch. These were all Republicans. I was not, so I never did it.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I was always at the end, though, because of the height thing. And not the tall end, the short end. And so he was just really abusive. And one of the things he did is he made everyone in the office, regardless of who they were, including his chief of staff, a really heinous woman, I will say, make a toast form. He liked white buttered toast. I like white butter toast.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Who doesn't like white butter toast? Well toasted, extra butter. Fine. I get it. But, and I get it if he had a secretary, I guess, fine. I don't have people make toast for me. But he was, he tried to get me to make him toast and it was a thing. And I said, I'm not making you toast. And he goes, everyone in this office makes me toast. And I said, well, not me.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I have a graduate degree in journalism, so I'm not going to do it. And he said, if I ask you to make me toast and you don't do it, I'm going to fire you. And I said, great. Sounds good. And then he goes, okay, just so you know, I go, got it. He never asked me to make him toast. It was really interesting. It was just, he wanted to know that he could. And I was like, I'm fine with that.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Seems like fair. Was that a moment for you where you sort of first saw your ability? No, I had it before. I did it my whole life. I don't know where it comes from. I mean, I walked out of fourth grade. Wow. Why? Because I had read it. I was in the principal's office. My mother came in. She's like, why did you leave? I said, because I already learned that. And I was like, I'm bored.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I need to leave. And I did that from the get-go. My name when I was a baby was Tempesta, which is what they tell women who are... They call you bossy or, you know, all those names for women who know what they want. It's fine. I mean, it's fine. I didn't mind. I liked being the way I was, so it was fine. Probably part of being gay, so I didn't really care what— especially men, thought of me.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
I like men compared to most women. I don't have to sleep with them. Sorry, Monica.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
See, but that was – if I had been a CIA agent, this is what I would have done. I'm a good – it's not that I have a superpower. It's that I'm a good history major, I guess, because you could watch – if you studied communications even for a second, you understood that every major communication system had a weapon-tool kind of dichotomy. And so it was sort of easy.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
You know, it's like putting together a puzzle, which is what I would have done if I was an analyst for the CIA or anything else. You just look at all the facts, and then you're like, here's what I think is going to happen. Right. And I've been more right than wrong. And, you know, just recently with Elon, I said, he's going to be dangerous. He's going to be a Trump supporter.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
He's going to be this. And, you know, at the time, actually last year when I said he's going to, when he was going, I'm a neutral party, blah, blah, blah. I was like, no, no, he's going to back Trump and he's got to pay for it because he's in big trouble if not. And he did. He invested $118 million, and now he's worth $77 billion more. So excellent investment. Wow.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Including Twitter now, which looked like a bad investment, but now looks like a good one because it's not about Twitter. It's about influence and power. Yeah.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Not really. I think he just understands his existential crisis of— Kamala Harris became the president. I think that was something he was quite aware of. Okay. Although I doubt she would have gone after him the way he's going to be going after people. Interesting. Everything these people say, every accusation is a confession with someone like that. Wait, say that again?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
He was tweeting out, you know, they're going to jail me in the Harris administration. And then right after the election, we're going to jail mayors. We're going to jail—Alzheimer Vindman should be jailed for treason. Their accusations are confessions of what they want to do, often and always. Not just Elon, but Trump and the rest of them. Yeah.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So I listen to their accusations quite a bit because it means something about them.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
A lot of the same, actually. One, more propaganda to try to control certain populations and convince people that bad things aren't bad and the uses of AI and other manipulative means to do it. Two, the continued coarsening of public dialogue because it works for him. You know, either hope or fear works. And he's the fear guy, right?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
So I think creating false narratives constantly and using digital means to do so. And eventually, I think tech companies will reign ascendant in this period. He will not pull them back as much as he has a proclivity to want to do that. I think he's going to be influenced by Musk to allow technologists to run the show.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
How do we reclaim social media? What I'm looking at is not so much where we are now, which is social media is bad for all of us because it's partisanship. It creates echo chambers, bullying, everything that goes with it. There are some good parts of it. Yeah, there's some very good parts of it.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
No, I've covered tech for the past 30 years. I was one of the earliest people who covered the internet. I know about the early part, but I've covered the internet, all the big people from Musk to Zuckerberg to Jobs to Gates, stuff like that.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
That was the dream of, say, an AOL. One of my first things in the book is a bunch of quilters who had never met, and they liked quilting in their own community, but then they met and formed friendships, and then they made a quilt. That's a beautiful thing. Often it's not. It's to anger and upset people because one of the things I also say in the book is enragement equals engagement, right?
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It works better than empathy. Empathy does not equal engagement necessarily. It can. No. But enragement is better.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
Oh, this is lovely. I can easily recall sitting on the bathroom floor under the sink as my father shaved in the mornings. I used to put my cheek up against the pipe because the warmth of the water rushing down, it was comforting to me. The soft hairs of my father's legs trapped bits of water from the steamy air of the bathroom and as he shifted his legs, suddenly releasing the drops as he moved.
Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky
Kara Swisher
It amazes me that I can recount those times so easily, but not the last night he said goodbye to me. It's a nice piece. Like, it's funny what you remember, right? You know, in the digital world, everything is remembered. Yeah. And there you have bits and pieces of information. And how old were you? Five. Five. Just turned five when he died.
Search Engine
The New Zuckerberg
Do you feel like you're adequately portrayed? Because I want to wonder about the person who actually created this thing.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2134 - Democrats Fear BIG BALLS!
I have no idea. I think there is no vetting whatsoever, as you can see, that's taking place. It took Katie and the really great team. Wired has done an astonishing job here. You know, I could make a joke. That's probably why he was hired for all this ridiculous nonsense and other nefarious things. But, you know, there's an expression in technology. It's not it's it's a feature, not a bug.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And, you know, Steve Reschetti is a nice guy. And he's like, oh, you know, it's the unions. He should understand. He's a big boy. And I was like, no, he's not a big boy.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, the thing is, you know, and Steve's, again, a lovely guy. I actually ran into him at a movie premiere for Wicked, and he goes, guess you were right. I'm like, guess so. You know, the way he takes slights is really strange. So I'd seen it in action, sort of petty anger and slights. And that one really stuck hard. And they kept, the Biden people kept tweaking him.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And I found that to be, you know, I mean, you could be like, so what? I'm like, why would you do that? He actually does deserve the accolades around Tesla. So why not just give him that? And I never understood why they wouldn't, despite the union stuff.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Like he liked all those memes, dank memes. He loves dank memes.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
It always is. You know, I have experiences with my own son. Like he loves dank memes. Like he always sends me dank memes or whatever. And you can fall down it. And I think that's what attracted him to Twitter for sure. And then it took off into a dark, darker place that the other things impacted it.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But, you know, he's an addictive personality, clearly, like whether it's to work or hardcore is one of his favorite words, which is I find to be hustle porn, you know, so he's attracted to addiction. And so his Twitter use, you can watch it like you can, you can see it. It's, it's, it's manic and he's a manic person. And I think it's, again, not an excuse, but an explanation.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I don't think he's good the way my my kids are cringe. They're always like cringe people.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, his manic nature, right? It's got a manic addictive quality to it. And he does have a sense of humor. It's not my sense of humor, and people will hate me for saying this, but it can be rather charming, right? Like when he was on Saturday Night Live.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
He was so awkward that it was charming. And other people are going to say Kara loves him. I don't care. Go watch it. It is.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You brought him. You made him. Oh, yes. Oh, my God. They're so exhausting. I don't— I have to tell you, sometimes the left is so ridiculously censorious. It's kind of like, I don't want to use censorious. That's not, they're just like scoldish. I don't want to use, they're not censoring. But yes, I get a lot of like, you made him, like you didn't know it.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, I didn't know how he was treating his kid. I'm sorry. I didn't know that. And had I known, I would have.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I was covering him as a car manufacturer. Look, Silicon Valley has a million people like him. He was very typical, except he was doing more interesting things than other people.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
So getting back to how he's good at it, I think the people that are very good, and I once wrote a column about in The Times when I was writing for The Times about two people I thought were very good, which is AOC and Trump, right? They're genuine to themselves. Or Kim Kardashian's another person who's like this.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You don't have to like any of these people, but boy, are they good at channeling themselves as an image online. And it feels genuine. It feels like them doing it, and it is them doing it. It feels like it's their voice, if that makes sense. People love when someone that famous reacts to them, and then it creates a sensation around them, right? And so then you get a lot of acolytes.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Oh my God, Elon Musk responded to me. And he feeds off of that too. And again, he combines humor. He initially combined humor with that or insights, right, to interesting things. And then it very quickly twisted into stuff he doesn't know anything about. And he just pontificates.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And that's his favorite thing is to say all manner of nonsense and inaccuracies about things he doesn't know what he's talking about.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, you know, Kevin Roos did a great thing about that. You know, you go down this rabbit hole. It really is. It can really be, you know, did you know this? Or, you know, everybody is subject to it with the way social media works. And that's a mind of technology people. They're like, this could happen. We could... Go to the moon, right?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You have to have that element to you if you're going to do very difficult things. And so you have to start with that personality. And therefore, anything, every single thing is open to question. Why do we do it this way? Why do we do it this way? And it's a personality trait I like.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But what happens is when you start to get out to Ukraine or vaccines or whatever, they have to question everything and posit themselves. I always joke about it with my wife. Oh, yet another bold truth teller, right? I'm so tired of them. I'm here to boldly tell you the truth without any actual information or reporting.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And so he's attracted to that idea, like the simulation, like why can't we live on Mars? Not everybody does that. And I think when it starts from that, it starts off from a good place. But often in the social media world, as Kevin correctly put out in that podcast he did, is it goes down into the sort of conspiracy theory avenue really quickly.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
So have a lot of people in Silicon Valley. Let me say, he's not alone. No, he's not. He's got a cut, like this Curtis Yarvin stuff. They've all sort of been taken by these. It's almost religious if you think about it, right? And so one of the things that I think it goes back to, and I hate to say this, is sad little boy, wasn't loved enough as a child, is searching for meaning, right?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Is searching for love, searching for, and again, not an excuse because I think he's become a terrible person. And he should get therapy. But when there's easy answers like that, oh, this is why you're so unhappy. Oh, this is why the world is the way it is. These right-wing conspiracies do scratch an itch for these people. It's a religion. It's their answer to the world. It's also a politics.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I mean, there is that element to a lot of these people. And the same thing with Silicon Valley people. Again, when you merge that with the ideas around Silicon Valley, which is highly male, highly, we have all the answers. Why are these silly people in our way? And with the South African thing, I don't know what happened there that created this group of people.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But you can you could say that about people who come from Russia or China or, you know, there's an element of a whole bunch of people who emigrated from India. So, you know, they bring with them whatever culture happened there. And in South Africa, you can go one of two ways, right? You can go the Athol Fugard way or you could go in this way of longing for past times, I guess, in some fashion.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, I think what was really interesting is a lot of these guys, you know, can I use this in the interchange? Have tiny dick energy. I don't know what else to say. They just, they want to be big swinging dicks and they won't do it, right? They won't go there because they're worried about what people will say or everyone's sort of watching each other. And this guy goes in and just does it.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Like Silicon Valley, the employees run the show. Like they really do. They like to get their lunches. They like to get their cars, their dry cleaning. They like to speak up. And by the way, They started it like Google starting with having the employees talk back every Friday. What do you think was going to happen? Right. They're going to the kids.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Right. They gave power to their employees. And I had a discussion, I don't think it was Mark, where I was like, now they're talking back. I'm like, what did you think they were going to do? You indulge children for long enough and give them sugar all day long, they're going to become terrible people. Like, you know what I mean?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And so that they were surprised by this is what happened when they created these cultures, I'm always surprised by. So they have all these employees that annoy them. So they let them say whatever they wanted. And then they said whatever they wanted. And then they were annoyed by them saying whatever they wanted.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And they found it very hard to push back because talent is at a premium in Silicon Valley. So you have to kind of let everybody be themselves. And it got annoying for a lot of these people because they had effective control over things. But with Musk, when he did it, you could see everybody in Silicon Valley. They already had this... Oh, he gets to do that. I don't get to do that.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I have to, like, listen to my diversity, equity, inclusion people. Like, oh, I hate those people. Like, you know, but he doesn't have to. He can do whatever he wants. And when he did that and cut people, they wanted to do that, too.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Right. It's sort of the rid me of this annoying priest kind of thing, like rid me of these people. Again, it's like a king thing. The way they set up their companies is a kingship, right? Mark Zuckerberg has complete control. He can't be fired. He's there for life, dictator for life or whatever the joke you want to make. And so they like that.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But in practice, it doesn't work that way because he's got reporters annoying him, like irritating reporters. He's got his staff. He's got to at least give a nod to diversity or else he gets shamed. And he doesn't have the fortitude that Musk has in that regard. And so they themselves are trying to assert themselves in sort of what they consider a man, right?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
This is the definition of what a man is. A lot of them... were not considered manly when they were in high school or, you know, sort of Revenge of the Nerds kind of thing. So they are trying to hold on to all these kind of manly cosplaying, I guess. You know, with Mark, it's the stupid chain and the T-shirt, which, good luck, it's fine. I think it looks ridiculous, but fine. He likes it.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Or the MMA, like, I can feel like a man. Like, they hold on, or I'm going to hydrofoil, or I'm going to work out, I'm going to show off my muscles. That's what Bezos is doing. Like, here's my muscles, here's my pretty... fiance kind of thing. They're trying to sort of cosplay a version of a man that I think seems pathetic to me, but I think it gives them great comfort.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Oh, that's because I suggested you do podcasting. You've done rather well.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, they don't like women to start with. Come on. They don't like them to start with. So this shouldn't be a surprise. They don't like the ladies kind of thing.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
What's interesting about what you're saying, and it's absolutely true. Sorry, they don't have women in their midst. I wrote a piece once, say, The Men and No Women of Facebook, and Mark got hurt by it. And I was like, what? I'm just putting up pictures of your management. I don't know what to tell you. Like, you hired them. They're very fixated on what a man is and how to behave.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And what's really interesting, especially Mark Andreessen, I mean, if he could jog like 10 feet, I'd be surprised, right? Talking about the manly virtues. Give me a break. I mean... When he said that, I'm like, I could beat him up in five seconds. Like, I don't even understand where this comes from. Now he's going to challenge me to a fight, whatever.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
So it's a concept of what a man is that is not what a man is, but they've decided it is. Now, of all these people, Elon didn't cosplay a lot like that. Like, he didn't, except now he's starting to wear the cowboy hats and that whole nonsense that he's doing. But he actually didn't as much as they did. And now they sort of take all their cues from his aggression, which is kind of interesting.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Yeah. Zuckerberg is such a beta. He's such a beta. I love saying that.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, a little more strongly than the New York Times did. You know, they're sort of treating it like it's an interesting person walking through. I think he's a one-man wrecking ball, really. And he's being used by Trump for that purpose. You know, there's lots of ways you could use metaphors. You could say junkyard dog. He's the one sort of taking all the flack, going in and breaking things. But...
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And you could be funny and call it Wreck-It Ralph. I don't think it's particularly funny or the right way to do it or constitutionally sound. But that's the kind of thing. He's going in there like he does with his companies and doing the exact same thing. He's got a series of moves that he makes every single time, and he's doing them writ large on the federal government.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, it's changed and morphed over the years, but always drama, always a massive amount of drama centered on him. That tends to be the thing he does. He can be very dramatic in a very, like, poignant way.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
There was a period where he was very worried about the fate of Tesla, if you remember, and he was sleeping on the floor there, and he gave a really... He actually gave an interview to the New York Times where... He seemed to cry. He seemed very emotional.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And at one point when we were talking, this was, I think, off camera, he said, if Tesla doesn't survive, the human race is doomed, which I felt was a little dramatic, you know, and I thought, wow, this is what, man in his forties who thinks that he's the center of the universe. And so it always has that element of drama. Like it has to be that, and he has to be at the center.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Yes, but they won't. They will not. They will say it is not them. It was we're cleaning up from the previous, right? They will not take control because one, Ezra, you think they care about consequences. One of the messages in my memoir. I think they care about power. They don't care about the consequences of damage. They do not care. They don't anticipate it. You're right about Twitter.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
It's a lesser business. The only way he's getting advertisers is by threatening them. Like they're just doing these lawsuits. And of course, these advertisers are going to go back just to acquiesce to him, right?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Not a better business. It's a way to pay him off. Tesla's not a better business than what it was because they haven't innovated the cars. That stock may be going up, but the sales are going down because the cars aren't as good. They just aren't. So he doesn't care about the actual thing. These people don't care about the actual thing.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
They care about laying waste to it and then we'll build something better. But I don't know what they're going to build better. If you press them, and a lot of these, like, same thing with the media that goes with it. It's never about solutions, is it? It's about how everything sucks and we have to get rid of it.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
They never tell you what their replacement is for any of it because they don't have a theory of building. They have a theory of destruction. And, you know, Trump just with the water thing, he just, like, we got to get the water flow. What a disaster that was. What he just did, like in California, he's wasting water.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
No reason. And then going on. And then the whole group of people going, mm-hmm, sir, well done. I'm like, are you fucking, like who is not standing there among the media going, are you fucking kidding me with this? Like not going, well, sir, people say. I'd be like, that's why they don't let me in the White House. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? That was a disaster.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I think he's greatly informed by video games. And so that's, he's sort of, someone described him to me as ready player one and everybody else is an NPC, which is a non-player character. So he always has to be the hero or the person who matters the most. And sometimes he does, and sometimes he's engineered it.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Oh, it's the best investment he made. Exactly. Except for investing in Trump, that $280 million. Let me tell you, the only person, when he bought it, we were all sort of like, what in the world? Why is he paying so much? What an idiot, right? Everybody was saying that.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
He tried to get out of it. He thought he was stupid. Because he wasn't anticipating what he could use it for, right? He didn't realize he had a really big gun there, right? He thought it was a knife or whatever. The only person who called me was Mark Cuban. And he says, Carrie, he's not buying it. Like, maybe he doesn't know he's doing this.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But when he goes in a room internationally as the head of Tesla or Starlink... I mean, he gets a meeting just like the head of GM or Lockheed gets, right? And world leaders, et cetera. When he goes in as the owner of Twitter, he has enormous power globally from an influence point of view. He goes, this is not a US play. This is a global play. And I was like, huh? I think Mark was 100% right.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
He bought it and it gave him, he's the Twitter guy and also Tesla and also, but he gets an, no one else has that, right? And maybe back in the day, Rupert Murdoch, right? I guess. Right. And that's what he's done. But like bigger, better, stronger, more influential. Rupert Murdoch would never think of sitting with Trump cutting this stuff.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Murdoch didn't want to be the main character of his own platform. But he is kind of Rupert Murdoch now, right? But except a Rupert Murdoch who likes to do shit.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You said that right. I thank God you said that because like all the media is like, look at this interesting thing. I'm like, he wants you to know. It's a signature. It's me, Fredo. I know it was you, Fredo. He totally wanted people, everything he does, he wants you to know because again, he is a desperate attention sponge and he just needs constant, constant.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Why would you stay up at night talking to people, you know, named Cat Turd? Why? Why? Like, why? you know, because you have a desperately empty hole in the center of your life that you can never fill, right?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
So, you know, just like getting the founder role when he's not actually the founder or rewriting history or using PR to make himself the founder. So he understands the hero's role. kind of thing really rather well. He also, the stakes have to be very high. And if it doesn't work, we're doomed kind of thing. So he uses language like that of doom. And he tends to overstate the problems.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
It's the bottom of bottomless well, this center of need to be loved or, and I hate to break it down like that because I'm not a psychologist, but boy, does he have a big old hole right in the center of himself. And so what I think is very telling about both of these people is they do not have solutions. They only tell us what the problem is and they don't have a vision of,
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Even Ronald Reagan had a vision. Like they all have, what is your vision? What do you want to make except get out of my way and let me do what I want to do? That's really the vision that I can tell. I haven't heard what they want to make at all.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Have you noticed they're all leaking? We don't have control of him.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Utterly. Trump's life is full of those people. And now he's got the greatest one ever. Michael Cohen was that, like the fixer, right? So there's always a fixer in Trump's life who does these things, who's willing to go to the mat for the boss, which he likes to be called apparently. So Musk is that writ large. It's just that he's much more protected because he's so wealthy.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
He has so much means that he almost is more powerful than he's not a minion. He's like a super minion or something.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, Donald Trump is like, he has what, three emotions, ABC? Like, I don't think he's very complex in that regard. I did think they were going to fight. And I know he's irritating to Trump. You hear that from a lot of people. And I think it's absolutely true. He probably is irritating. At the same time, Trump loves money. So really, that's at the heart of him.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I think Donald Trump finds him useful and he is useful to Donald Trump. He's a useful junkyard dog and he has a lot of money. So if he has a cudgel against these senators, he's going to give me money to take you out. Like I've got a bank, a bank that never ends, essentially. He also knows he needs him to hold on to power because what does it look like when they fight? What does that look like?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You don't want Elon Musk outside the tent. That's a really bad place for Elon Musk to be and angry. Because he's shown he has an ability to fight back at people. So ultimately, it could go on for a while. And he could do more and more outlandish things and behave in more and more outlandish ways. Trump has an endless capacity for, you know, oh, did he say a racist thing? I don't care.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Most companies have problems, but everything is a disaster here and I'm here to fix it. Or everything sucks and everybody previously is criminal or evil. Pedophile is a word he likes to use a lot, but he uses the terms like evil and evil In one tweet, he called Yoel Roth, who was head of Trust and Save Twitter, who he did like until he quit and then he became evil.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
What could that be? What is he, like detonate a nuclear bomb? You break the government and things are going to break.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You see, you're operating on the idea that they care about the pain. They don't care. They won't take responsibility for it. Have you heard Mark Zuckerberg take responsibility for any of the problems?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Right, which is probably what will happen. That's the likeliest scenario here. I mean, one of the things that he's got to keep musk around for that is the money on these things to manipulate things, to really flood the zone with all kinds of money and efforts to win that midterms. But again, they don't care. He has done the damage. As long as he destroys it and you can't come back...
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
is what they're doing. In Musk's mind, my guess is that he thinks this is the only way to do it, is to get rid of everything. They're hoping you focus so much on the destruction that you're not going to notice you're living in a destroyed place.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And I know you think there's bigger implications, but they'll be so all over the place, it'll be hard to figure out what actually has been destroyed or to feel a sense of anger. What's going to happen is people are going to feel a sense of just nihilism, right? I think that's what's going to happen.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
In one tweet, he called him evil and I was seething with hate, which is really dramatic and ridiculous. I'm not seething with hate. Very Trumpian. Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. I think he means it, though. I think Trump sometimes is just doing it for show, you know, showman, a reality show kind of thing.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
There's a few people. Reid Hoffman was just on the podcast this week. I sense fear in him. He funded the Eugene Carroll thing. He's a very lovely person, and he's very even-handed all the time, almost to a fault. I don't think he's going to be as aggressive, and he certainly was, but he's got to be thinking, what do I do? I'm very exposed, right?
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You have a Mark Cuban, who I think presents a different alternate. He claims to me he doesn't want to run for president. I think he has a real opening of like, oh, come on, this is not the way we are. And I don't think everyone's moved there. I think there's these loudmouths like Musk and David Sachs and that gang. And even Peter's not that loudmouth these days, which is interesting.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I find interesting. But you have the loudmouths. But I don't think everyone is on this ticket. Like, if you noticed, you didn't see Tim Cook in the front row with the greatest feast of engineering in history was somehow he didn't have to be in that picture, right? I have never thought Silicon Valley was liberal. I thought they were utilitarian, I guess.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I thought they sort of were tolerant socially, but didn't really care, didn't think about it much. I think these people just want to do their business. I don't think they support Trump. I think it's like a VIG, right? Whether you're Bob Iger or whether you're anybody, you got to pay the VIG or you don't have a choice right now. I don't think there's a deep well of support for Trump.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I think it's just there's a bunch of loudmouths that have that. And everyone else just shakes their head for this. So when that's the case, there tends to be a countervailing force of these guys are shakedown artists, right? When, as you say, disaster will come and this will be a big fucking mess. they will line up in that direction because it's good for them and for their shareholders.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
So whatever it takes for shareholders to do better, if Trump tanks the stock market, if Trump tanks this, they'll be on the opposite side instantly because they have no real values. They just don't. Elon has more values than most of them in a weird way, even though they're warped and twisted. So I think they'll just go whatever way the financial markets go. That's my feeling.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Oh, God, interesting. I can't, one of them, I can't say. Well, there's a memoir coming out from a very well-known media person that once it's published, as you should read, I'm reading it right now and I can't say who it is because he gave it to me on the sly. I think it's wonderful.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I love the book Northwoods by Daniel Mason, which came out last year, which is about a house, the history of a house and the people who lived in it. And it's haunting me. I think it's the most beautiful book. And I love Daniel Mason. I'm reading The Piano Tuner right now. I'm reading all his stuff. But this book, it's about one of the things that comforts me in this very difficult time.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You know, I have four kids. I'm a gay person. It's nerve wracking right now. I thought this was all over and here we are again. But it gives me comfort that we're all going to be dead someday. I know it sounds crazy, but life goes on over the period. And so I really like that book. And then I recently interviewed him, and I think he's terrific, Tim Snyder.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I think he's a really important person talking about where tyranny goes and stuff like that. I read a lot more nonfiction. I should read more fiction. And I'm sorry, I'm going to give one more. Geraldine Brooks, who is a wonderful writer. She won, I think, the Pulitzer or whatever. Her book, she's mostly done fiction. She's written a book about the death of her husband that is incredible.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Tony Horowitz, who is a friend of mine. Geraldine's a friend of mine. He wrote Confederates in the Attic. And it's a beautiful rumination on mortality and history. I don't know, just a wonderful book.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, He has people around him that are just enablers. They're sort of, all these Silicon Valley people do. All his minions, and they're minions, they're all lesser than he is in some fashion, and they all look up to him. They're typically younger. They laugh at his jokes. You know, sometimes when he apologizes for a joke, which is not very often. He said people around me thought it was funny.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Well, they all do because they're like, to be in the room is to watch it happen. I was, when he was being interviewed at Code once, he had a couple of them there and he's told a really bad joke and they all went like that. And I was like, that's not funny. I was like, I'm sorry, did I miss the joke? You know, they looked at me like I had three heads.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And what they do is, it's not that hard to figure out choke points, right? This is where we need to be. And then they go into it in this way that is, you know, violating of typical rules. And I don't mean necessarily laws, although I suspect many laws may have been broken here, but not caring about breaking laws. And so they go in sort of full force and question, let me see your code.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Why can't we get in? We're getting in. We have the law. We have federal marshals. Let's see what they'll do. And that is a really big quality that he has. Let's say things and wait for them to sue us or wait for them to stop us. They won't stop us. And again, very much like Trump, the people don't stop you.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
We just operate on a set of, you know, polite rules in society and they just barrel right through them.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
Yeah, it is. I mean, and if he gets caught, he's willing to pay, right? Like he's willing to go toe-to-toe legally. And I think what a lot of people are is, I don't want to fight this guy. He has unlimited money, right? Like, you have to think twice if you're going. I mean, you know, journalists have to think twice. You know, it's very similar to these media companies settling.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You know, CBS has done nothing wrong in this Kamala Harris situation, and yet they're going to pay. It's pretty clear that Meta did nothing wrong with Trump, and yet they're going to pay. You do it to make it go away, or you don't do it at all. because of the exhaustion. And he understands that. He understands that he can wear them down. And so it is true.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
If you blow lights, you mostly get away with it, right? Like you don't always get caught or if you don't pay bills or in his business life, let's blow up 90 rockets because the 91st will work. And that's his attitude towards pretty much everything I can tell.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
It did, but who else gets to, like, look, and then he insults NASA, which is not allowed to blow up rockets. NASA can't blow up rockets because then they blow up one rocket. That's the end of it, right? And so it's a real advantage to be able to blow up rockets and then keep going. You know that Thomas Edison quote? There's a famous quote that they all quote back to me. I have not failed.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Whatever. And then you eventually get to it. And so it's very, it's part of the ethos of tech is that there's no such thing as failure. There's only it didn't work that time and I'll get the right one next.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
It's not money. Money is not, I hate to say this, I hate it, but it's not that important to many of them, right? You know that. It's not money. Some of them really like money, that's for sure. But it's not money. It's the power that money brings and it's power to decide. And, you know, I think it started off, I have some good ideas and I'd like to put them into place.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And now it's, I have all the ideas on every topic and therefore what I say goes. It's a very king-like attitude towards things, right? Or the, you know, that philosopher they like of that we should have a functional CEO running our country that gets to decide everything and screw Congress, screw the courts. We should have a king, essentially a CEO that has unlimited power.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
He also does have a really weird sense of mortality in a way that he wants to be legendary, right? Again, go back to video games. But I think he wants the glory of it. He has those images in his head. And that's not by way of excuse. It's by way of explanation, right? That this is how he looks at himself. It's on a grand journey of the hero. He's not a hero, by the way. Let me be clear.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
You're right. And during Obama, he was supportive. When he joined that, we texted a lot during that period. He was on the Trump thing and he was like, they're trying to do an anti-gay thing. I'm going to get in there and stop them. Like, He was very much, I need to be here to change Trump's mind. Only I can change it kind of thing. He wasn't anti-Trump, but he certainly wasn't pro-Trump.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I can tell you that. He was very much in the, he's kind of a con man school of thought with him. Around COVID, I saw a lot of changes, you know, around. I talked to him quite a lot and people give me a hard time for having done that. I get it. But he wasn't that off beaten track before. I mean, he was, he was megalomaniacal. He was typical of a tech person, but doing more interesting things.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But there was a real shift during COVID. I noticed it. He got very upset. He got very like overly upset and overly dramatic. Look, if you think your company is critical for the future of the human race and then California closes it down because of COVID, you get in that mode. That's one. He sort of got very unreasonable. And in one interview I did with him,
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
He started saying only a few thousand people or whatever, I don't remember precisely, were going to die from COVID, and he had read all the studies, and he knew, and I didn't. He's never liked unions or the government or regulation. That goes way back for all these people. And so it became more profound during COVID, this idea.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
I think the issues around his trans daughter seem to have affected him quite profoundly. I've noticed that in a number of tech people who have trans children. The second thing I think the Wall Street Journal has correctly reported on is his use of ketamine and other drugs. So I think that was another thing that seemed to have changed him. But although I, you know, they all use drugs.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
But I think he was doing it himself. He was like the world's expert. It was also staying up late at night. He has this weird proclivity to be up at three in the morning and obsessively. He's got an obsessive personality. You know, we all have that element to us, but he's got it in spades.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And the one thing that I think I keep saying this to people and I said it at the time when Biden did not invite him to that EV summit and invited Mary Barra instead. and treated him shabbily. He was very upset, like very. I talked to him a lot about it, or he texted me, and other people did too. Other people noticed it too.
The Ezra Klein Show
What Elon Musk Wants
And this was a summit that Biden had, and he couldn't invite him because of the union issues. He was very virulently anti-union. So they didn't invite him and he was very upset, like personally upset, like wounded almost. And I even went as far as to call Steve Reschetti, who works for Biden. And I said, boy, have you made a mistake that you should bear hug this guy? He's really mad.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Shocking New Biden Cognitive Decline Details, Elon's Future, and Cory's Long Speech, with The Fifth Column | Ep. 1040
Right, no, he has to suck up all the oxygen. There's only one other person that needs more attention, it's Donald Trump.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Shocking New Biden Cognitive Decline Details, Elon's Future, and Cory's Long Speech, with The Fifth Column | Ep. 1040
Watch. Whether he was in good health or not, whether he was in good mental health. Obviously, top advisers got blamed for this, the preparation itself, and also not being transparent that he wasn't able to campaign effectively. How do you answer those critics?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Like they traded it because this is what they want to do. And they were enthusiastically doing it. And we don't have to like them. And just by not liking them, we're not threatening them. So that's fucking nonsense. And either you didn't threaten them in any way. And it's a larger part of the strategy of intimidating journalists. They're trying. He's trying to shut us up.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
Yeah.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Power of Trump 2.0, Why Elon and DOGE are Working, and Independent Media's Impact, with Jason Calacanis and Chamath Palihapitiya of All-In | Ep. 1008
That's what I said.
Today, Explained
Serving your country while trans
In these challenging times, we're a group of mighty hosts who have banded together to fight disinformation by speaking truth to power, like the Avengers, but with more spandex. What do you think, Scott?