Kara is joined by Jen Psaki, the host of MSNBC's "Inside with Jen Psaki," to talk all things Signalgate, Trump taking on Big Law, and what's going on with the latest pardons. Then, Elon says the "destiny of humanity" rests on the outcome of the Wisconsin judicial election, and his AI company xAI acquires X. Plus, Jen weighs in on The White House Correspondents' Association cancelling comedian Amber Ruffin's appearance at the annual dinner, and possible changes coming to the White House briefing. Follow Jen at @jenpsaki.msnbc.com Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on Bluesky at @pivotpod.bsky.social Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who is the guest co-host on this episode?
He also wore a cheese head at one point. He didn't look bad in the cheese head, I'll be honest with you. Most people don't look good in cheese heads, so I guess that's a pro. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Scott is off today, and in his place, I got someone much more superior.
I brought in Jen Psaki, the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Psaki, who also has a new podcast, The Blueprint, which is excellent. I recommend everyone to listen to it. We're doing a little crossover event because I was on her show this weekend. She promised to bring dirty jokes in Scott's absence on the show.
Welcome, Jen. I mean, Cara, first of all, as a listener, as I told you yesterday, I was like, I have to bring inappropriate jokes and inappropriate things to be said. But I don't know. I don't know that that's my vibe. I'm just trying to be my authentic self.
Do you have any? Do you have a dirty joke that you promised on the air last night?
I really don't, but maybe the conversation will bring me around to it. Okay. Maybe it'll bring me around to it. Feel free to. I'll feel free to say inappropriate things. I feel freed. I feel freed on your podcast. All right.
I mean, we've got a lot to get to today, but like, how is it going there? Now, explain what you're doing. You're doing 103 shows for MSNBC. Is that correct? Or what's the... Approximately.
What's the pitch? Well, right now I'm doing a show on Sundays. I'm doing a show on Mondays. They're a little different because Sundays, which you were on yesterday, it's a different thing. People are sitting down with their coffee. They want big picture. That's what we try to do. And Mondays is just what the hell just happened today. So it's a little bit different.
I have a podcast called The Blueprint. Explain what The Blueprint, why it's called The Blueprint. You and I talked about this name. I mean, the blueprint was it was my form of therapy. I don't know if you find podcasting to be therapeutic, but for me, it was after the election. And I like many people, I was like, what the hell just happened?
I wasn't shocked, but I just felt like so many things were missed, including by me and so many things I got wrong. And I so for me, my therapy was making a list of people who I felt would be Candid, say what they actually thought, not pretend like they know all the answers because no one does. I made kind of a list. I like write everything on note cards. I'm like an old lady.
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Chapter 2: What is Jen Psaki's new podcast about?
But I made like a back of the envelope list of people. I think you know all of them, right? It's like people who would just say what's on their minds. You know, Jemele Hill, Rahm Emanuel, Don Lemon. None of these people are holding back. Right, right. So we did that. We were only going to do six episodes. We ended up doing nine, and we're going to reboot it in the fall. Oh, great.
So why the blueprint? Explain for the kids who don't know what a blueprint is. I know. I think you told me. We talked about this, and you were like, it's a very old-timey phrase.
Yeah, yeah. We're going to do the horse and carriage.
Guys, like so many people, I consult with the great Kara Swisher about like every career move and thing I do in my life. We're going to do the mimeograph.
That's what I said. I said, remember the mime?
What if we call it the record player? Would people relate to that? The blueprint. Actually, they're back. They're back, Jen. I know that. You know, my daughter has a record player. The blueprint is not back, but go ahead. We're bringing it back. We're bringing it back. The blueprint is how do Democrats win again?
So reflecting on what just happened, what people got wrong, but also looking ahead to what to change moving forward. And there's a lot of criticism people have for episodes we've done so far, which I think is healthy. People don't all disagree with each other either. And that's kind of the point. So that's the purpose.
When you're thinking about this, your transition from politics, you know, it's been a while. You and I met right before you started, after you left the White House. What's it been like for you shifting over?
I mean, the initial stages were a combo of I literally had never seen a teleprompter before. I didn't know what it looked like. And it's not the most important thing, but you want to be functional enough on it that it's smooth. And the biggest part of it is if it's your own words and your own voice, which sounds obvious, but it isn't always.
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Chapter 3: How is Jen Psaki transitioning from politics to media?
Now, when the debate debacle happens and I said what I saw, as everybody saw, that maybe broke the fever of that. That wasn't my intention. But now it's a little different because... We have a new – I mean, our new show is going to be at 9 o'clock on Tuesdays through Fridays. It's launching in May.
And one of the things I've been thinking a lot about is that I kind of shied away from talking as much about my own experience and my experience in government and politics. I do sometimes, but now it feels like there is this real – hunger. And I know this anecdotally. I know this from people who, you know, message me on social media or email. I know this from people I run into the airport.
How the hell does this work? What's how's this supposed to work? What's broken? What's not? And I think I didn't, Lord knows, work for the current president. There's many, many Democrats. That would be a great show. Oh, my God. Many, many Democrats who may run for office president one day. Who the hell knows? I root for all of them. But I don't have any dog in the... You know what I mean?
So now I feel like I can dive back into that a lot more. And give your expertise. And give my expertise. And I think I shied away from that initially because I was so worried about being perceived as kind of this continuing spokesperson.
Right, right. So we're going to give you a little workout today on that. So you're going to have a lot to get to today. So including Tesla protests worldwide, Elon buying his own company in a weird situation. kind of flim-flammy kind of thing, and Trump's latest pardoning spree.
And we're also going to talk a little bit about the White House Correspondents Association, which you have had a lot of experience with. I have some thoughts on all the things.
Good. Oh, great.
Okay. So let's first talk with the latest with Signalgate. I call it Whiskey Leaks. I know.
You love that. So you can call it whatever you want. I love that word.
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Chapter 4: What is Signalgate and how is it affecting the administration?
Because this is something maybe you wished you could have done in the Biden administration, but you're always—and a lot of these firms are doing it for financial reasons because— Clients will leave them if they don't have security clearances or if the Trump administration is hostile to them. So they would see an exit of clients, presumably.
Well, which is why they're doing it, right? Right. I don't think we ever would have wished we could have done it. Maybe some people did. I just feel like it's got such a bad... it's kind of counter to what most presidents argue they're for, right?
Which is kind of rule of law, and you can be pissed off about what courts do, but it doesn't mean you ignore it, and it doesn't mean you pressure law firms not to represent clients. I mean, it's... I think it's, I mean, there's lots of things to be worried about right now, but this is one I think that's a legit one to be worried about. Because, tell me why from your perspective.
Well, because I think you have these law firms who are making a business decision, not a crime, but also one where it's a version, in my view, of obedience in advance. It is... deciding that in order to survive, which they have to do as a business and as a law firm, you are going to agree to things that you wouldn't normally agree to. And you give Trump power over you.
And I think for any president, that's dangerous. Maybe Democrat or Republican, but there's not a Democrat who's tried to do that. So that, but what do you, does it concern you?
Even if they lose, because the judges are pushing back on these things, it will have done business damage to these companies, these law firms. And so it doesn't matter. And then I think later administrations, including Democratic ones, will be looking at a lot of these moves and thinking, hmm. This worked.
Maybe they may not have the permission structure Trump has, but it's not once it once it's crossed, you're like, huh, could I do that? Even if you say I'd never do that, you kind of are like, I could maybe have a little more influence over irritating lawyers or irritating press people. So maybe I'll sue a little bit more. I think it opens a floodgate of behaviors.
And I think if Democrats think they'd never do it, I think they're not telling the truth.
I don't I don't I think some Democrats would do it. I just maybe I just think, though, it's kind of what I mean is if you're kind of an arguing part of your argument is I believe in kind of the rule of law and I believe in kind of the legal system, then then making these sort of so frontal deals with law firms feels counter to that. I mean, so I don't know.
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Chapter 5: Why are law firms under pressure from the Trump administration?
Most people don't look good in cheese heads, so I guess that's a pro. But I think it looked okay. I think it worked for him. Okay. And blamed George Soros when he was heckled, which is kind of ironic since he was paying people to be there. The Wisconsin Attorney General did try to stop the giveaway, but his suit was rejected by the state Supreme Court just before Elon's event began.
Elon and his affiliated groups have now spent over $20 million to help the conservative candidate in this judicial race. We're recording a day before the election. I'd love you to assess his political. If you're in a political suit, how do you think his communications are? How do you think his impact is?
By the way, there are also two special House elections in Florida this week to fill Matt Gaetz and Mike Walz's seats. The race for Wall's seat is tighter than Republicans expected, although both Republicans are expected to win there. Talk to me a little bit about what the Elon effect is happening. Again, there were Tesla take-down protests all over the country, some very creative.
And it's ongoing, and it's really affected Tesla stock as much as President Trump and others are trying hard to stop it.
I mean, I think his power is his money. And his money is not paying for, I mean, as much as he was in Wisconsin on Sunday, it's not paying for, hi, I'm Elon Musk, go out and vote in the Wisconsin state Supreme Court race. It's paying for all sorts of things, including convincing, you know, getting people to register or to vote, to participate in this, whatever we're calling this, a raffle.
I don't even know how to call it, the thing where he gives out money, a raffle. Yeah. So that's—his money is his power. I mean, and his platforms are his power. His platforms are his power. And so I don't think any Democrat should underestimate that. At the same time, he's more unpopular than Trump, right?
And I don't think Trump, if Trump were, if there were House races now, I don't think any House candidates would put him in an ad, but they would happily take his money and they'd happily get his favor so that they would get favored status on Twitter or X or whatever the hell. Or not be attacked by Trump. Or not be attacked, right. I mean, there's lots of ways to look at that, right? I mean, so...
And the Wisconsin state Supreme—we'll see what the turnout is, but it's still—you know, you talk to Democrats, Ben Wickler, who's the party chair, and others, and they say the turnout's going to be high. That may be the case, but it's still a state Supreme Court race. It's not a governor's race. It's not a presidential race. And the money he's spending there matters.
So that's where I think his power is.
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Chapter 6: How is Elon Musk influencing the Wisconsin election?
and then completes the picture to bring Tesla's shares up, giving it an AI value, essentially. That's why he's doing it, you think? Yeah. It gives it like this fake, phony boost? Until it's not, right? Someone's going to get ahead in AI, and so why not just fold them together, and then you don't understand the actual businesses themselves.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the interesting thing about reading the stories about this made me think about the early days after the purchase. When I think of what, did it happen in the spring of like two years ago? When did this happen? Am I remembering this correctly? This is relevant only because at the correspondence dinner, which I still attend many years later.
We're going to talk about that next. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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