Jen Psaki
Appearances
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Do you think they're making a business calculation of their own that they can get? But it's like liberal causes. How does that make them the same amount of money as Right, exactly. I mean, you know, you see this in kind of the consulting world, right? Which is like, it's really hard, not woe poor Democrats, but what's true is it's very hard to get hired right now as Democrat, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And person who's left the Biden administration, no matter how good and whatever your skill set is, because every company is like, we need closer ties to Trump, right? Not to you, yeah. That's every calculation. Now, these things are cyclical. Well, let's hope they're cyclical. I will hope they're cyclical. But... But yeah, I guess it's a calculation of that sort.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But what businesses, I don't know, what do you think? What businesses are going to be like, well, they're not falling prey to this. So I'm going to go with them.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Or at least the next year and a half or two, right? Because then who knows, right? Because then payback can be a bitch. Well, yeah, the House could be controlled by Democrats. It could be a little bit more like, you know, We're going to investigate why you gave in here. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Maybe I'm naive about the law firm thing. And I may be. I may be. I do think they're going to be more bullying about other things. The law firm thing, you're right. Like their businesses, they have to make calculations and maybe... I don't know.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Or taking on clients that would remotely offend the Trump administration. That's correct. So is that what you want to agree to? And that does, I mean, again, I mean, doesn't it feel counter to why people say they went to law school? Yes, it does.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Welcome, Jen. I mean, Cara, first of all, as a listener, as I told you yesterday, I was like, I have to bring inappropriate jokes and inappropriate things to be said. But I don't know. I don't know that that's my vibe. I'm just trying to be my authentic self.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, I think his power is his money. And his money is not paying for, I mean, as much as he was in Wisconsin on Sunday, it's not paying for, hi, I'm Elon Musk, go out and vote in the Wisconsin state Supreme Court race. It's paying for all sorts of things, including convincing, you know, getting people to register or to vote, to participate in this, whatever we're calling this, a raffle.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I don't even know how to call it, the thing where he gives out money, a raffle. Yeah. So that's—his money is his power. I mean, and his platforms are his power. His platforms are his power. And so I don't think any Democrat should underestimate that. At the same time, he's more unpopular than Trump, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And I don't think Trump, if Trump were, if there were House races now, I don't think any House candidates would put him in an ad, but they would happily take his money and they'd happily get his favor so that they would get favored status on Twitter or X or whatever the hell. Or not be attacked by Trump. Or not be attacked, right. I mean, there's lots of ways to look at that, right? I mean, so...
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And the Wisconsin state Supreme—we'll see what the turnout is, but it's still—you know, you talk to Democrats, Ben Wickler, who's the party chair, and others, and they say the turnout's going to be high. That may be the case, but it's still a state Supreme Court race. It's not a governor's race. It's not a presidential race. And the money he's spending there matters.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So that's where I think his power is.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I really don't, but maybe the conversation will bring me around to it. Okay. Maybe it'll bring me around to it. Feel free to. I'll feel free to say inappropriate things. I feel freed. I feel freed on your podcast. All right.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, I mean, the heat shield, I think, is the most— like, clearest, as long as he continues to be a heat shield. I think where we disagreed, and I feel like you have some sort of insider trading knowledge because you just, like, know him better than I do, is, like, will he be there in a year? Himself, because of his businesses.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, no, will Elon Musk still be, like, in the Trump orbit in a year? You think yes, right? Yes. I think no, although I only bet $5. Okay, all right.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think if Musk feels like a political problem to Trump, I know he's a heat shield, but you can go from a heat shield to becoming a political problem. including if Democrats get their act together and figure out a more effective way of talking about Doge cuts and cuts to Social Security and things like that, then he's not going to be as convenient as a buddy.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So then he won't be around as much in the orbit.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, maybe, but I don't, Trump, I don't know how much he cares. Like he's had plenty of people attacking him all the time. I mean, so, you know, how do you rid him? I mean, I don't mean to sound dark here. I'm saying he can go whatever. You just put someone else in charge of Doge. You, like, say... This guy, like, is out of whack or whatever. You say, I don't know, who knows?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
What's the pitch? Well, right now I'm doing a show on Sundays. I'm doing a show on Mondays. They're a little different because Sundays, which you were on yesterday, it's a different thing. People are sitting down with their coffee. They want big picture. That's what we try to do. And Mondays is just what the hell just happened today. So it's a little bit different.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He offs people all the time in terms of his orbit. So there's all sorts of ways to off Elon Musk in his orbit. I think that the interesting thing to me is if, to your point, is if Trump and Musk at some point have a falling out, I think there was a theory, which I don't think you ever agreed with, that it might be a short honeymoon. It's already a long honeymoon.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Then there's an interesting thing for the future of the Republican Party. I mean, if you're if you're J.D. Vance, you don't want to be in the crosshairs of Trump, but you also don't want to be in the crosshairs of Elon Musk. That's correct. J.D. Vance is like 40 something. He's maybe he's around for a long time. Maybe he wears that as welcome with Republicans, too. I have no idea.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But if you're a lot of these future Republicans, you care about Musk and you care about Steve Bannon, who doesn't like Musk. So that's a different, that's an interesting calculation, if Trump and Musk have a falling out. Which way do you go with each of them?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
They don't like them. I think it's furthering the heat shield that you've talked about. And I totally agree with because it is taking the energy and anger that you are seeing from a lot of Democrats out there and directing it at Tesla. Now- I think it's very warranted. Elon Musk has done some very bad things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I kind of wish these people were protesting about Trump and Social Security or Trump and something else, Medicaid cuts. Because I don't know. Ultimately, are people going to go to the polls in November and in November a year and a half from now about Tesla? Yeah. I mean, I'd be surprised. Lots of things can happen.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I wish it was something—I wish they directed all of their pain, anger, and passion, which is a good thing. What can Democrats do to cycle that in? Well, I mean, this is presumably somewhere organic. I haven't seen, but you tell me, that these Tesla protests, are they being organized by any, like, Democratic grassroots group? Some are. Some are. Some are.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I have a podcast called The Blueprint. Explain what The Blueprint, why it's called The Blueprint. You and I talked about this name. I mean, the blueprint was it was my form of therapy. I don't know if you find podcasting to be therapeutic, but for me, it was after the election. And I like many people, I was like, what the hell just happened?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I think there are things that are happening that are sort of organic, but have been, you know, indivisible and others have been additive to it, like these town hall meetings, right? Showing up at town hall meetings, town hall meetings being held in Republican districts. Um, more of that. I think though, there's not enough Democrats who are doing that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
There are plenty who are doing, there are some who are doing it, I should say, but there needs to be more of that and people for people to feel like they have a place to go and to direct their energies. Um, I don't know. I still think there's some work on kind of the coordination and kind of what the messaging is and what people should be doing who are writing letters and things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
A lot of it is still about Tesla and maybe it will be for a while about Tesla.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He's not the president.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the interesting thing about reading the stories about this made me think about the early days after the purchase. When I think of what, did it happen in the spring of like two years ago? When did this happen? Am I remembering this correctly? This is relevant only because at the correspondence dinner, which I still attend many years later.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I wasn't shocked, but I just felt like so many things were missed, including by me and so many things I got wrong. And I so for me, my therapy was making a list of people who I felt would be Candid, say what they actually thought, not pretend like they know all the answers because no one does. I made kind of a list. I like write everything on note cards. I'm like an old lady.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
We're going to talk about that next. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I made like a back of the envelope list of people. I think you know all of them, right? It's like people who would just say what's on their minds. You know, Jemele Hill, Rahm Emanuel, Don Lemon. None of these people are holding back. Right, right. So we did that. We were only going to do six episodes. We ended up doing nine, and we're going to reboot it in the fall. Oh, great.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So why the blueprint? Explain for the kids who don't know what a blueprint is. I know. I think you told me. We talked about this, and you were like, it's a very old-timey phrase.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Guys, like so many people, I consult with the great Kara Swisher about like every career move and thing I do in my life. We're going to do the mimeograph.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
What if we call it the record player? Would people relate to that? The blueprint. Actually, they're back. They're back, Jen. I know that. You know, my daughter has a record player. The blueprint is not back, but go ahead. We're bringing it back. We're bringing it back. The blueprint is how do Democrats win again?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
,,,,,,, . . . . ., a, set, P P P P P G實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . a Laboratory a ,,,,,,, there's no precedent for this, right? So there's no, just like many things Trump does, it's almost like the playbook, the system is not prepared to respond to it.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So reflecting on what just happened, what people got wrong, but also looking ahead to what to change moving forward. And there's a lot of criticism people have for episodes we've done so far, which I think is healthy. People don't all disagree with each other either. And that's kind of the point. So that's the purpose.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So this is a moment for, I think, them and as an association or as media outlets to decide, how are we going to respond? Maybe Trump's not the last version of this, right? I think you should plan for him not being the last version of this. And what does that look like?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think they're stupid. No, no, no, no, no. You shouldn't have briefings. But absolutely, for a number of reasons. I mean, one of them is it's, I mean, freedom of press, having the freedom of press there, that sends a message to the world. You can't go into other countries and be like, freedom of press, talk to real reporters and then not do it yourself.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It also pushes the system internally to get answers. It's very efficient. All of those things. What I mean is there are... There are ways that the, you know, in the briefing room, it's a little different now, but in the briefing room still, it's dominated by a handful of outlets. And a handful of outlets are not what the majority of the public consumes. And so there are some outdated ways
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
aspects of it yeah yeah i i was sort of like when she was like let's let in others i'm like yeah let's let it i want to go oh yeah yeah the the so those things the thing the problem is those things are good things like sean spicer did a lot of crazy things i can only think of melissa mccarthy but he did have a screen where he had regional reporters at times i think that's a good thing there are things that need to be modernized about that but i but i what they've done now is
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
is they've essentially let in state-run media to be the dominant sources of information in the pool, and that's a problem.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It is, yes. And historically, Democratic and Republican presidents have not done that. There's all sorts of things to criticize about every administration in terms of the ones, including the ones I worked in, about how they dealt with the press. I'm not suggesting that. But there were briefings done. There was, most of the time, accurate information.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
There wasn't intentional misleading most of the time. There are exceptions, right? This is a whole different thing, and the system and the press corps is not prepared for it. Well, Trump is innovative, if anything.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I guess you could call it that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Sure. I would have done, actually, truthfully, if Hillary Clinton had won, I was the communications director for Obama, we would have recommended they change the briefing.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And when I came in, and I'll come back to that in a second, when I came in and I was Biden's press secretary four years later, because we were following four years of them yelling at reporters and demonizing the media and not doing regular briefings, we felt like we had to return to some sort of normalcy to send the message, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But if it had been Hillary Clinton, I would have said do two or three briefings a week, include some sort of rotation of regional reporters or other outlets, either in the room or on a screen. You can easily answer questions to people who are on a screen. Um, the other days, maybe do them off camera because people can still get information, but there's something very performative.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I realize I'm currently, I'm a host of a TV show, but like there's something very performative about the briefing room and television. You and Juicy. Yeah, we got it. I mean, but you know, yes, you have to, you can do that. Give people the clips they want and whatever. But like two days, do a gap. What's called, we call it a gaggle. You do them on planes, um, at the state department.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, it's hard because there's too many people usually, but like, yes, back in the day, you used to do gaggles in your office. People still ask tough questions. You still have to answer them. It's not as performative and it's not as constructive to ask the question 17 times because somebody's already asked the question. Those are a couple of the things I would do.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, the initial stages were a combo of I literally had never seen a teleprompter before. I didn't know what it looked like. And it's not the most important thing, but you want to be functional enough on it that it's smooth. And the biggest part of it is if it's your own words and your own voice, which sounds obvious, but it isn't always.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
OK, wins. I'm going to say as much as I've said repeatedly that there are not enough Democrats out there and more need to be out there. I am delighted by the reemergence of Tim Walz, who I think was like locked in a closet somewhere during the 2024 or most of the election after he became the running mate. I love his imperfect, rough around the edges answers to things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He had this amazing moment a couple of days ago where he talked about the benefits of the Department of Education and what it actually does for people. He was asked a question by a student at a Title I school. I think this is one of those bureaucratic things most people don't know how to talk about. And I think a lot of parents would actually care if they knew. I loved that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I love the reemergence of him. I'm going to give a tie. The other person that I have, I didn't, I knew who he was, but I didn't really pay attention to what he had to say. But I feel like has become this emerging great speaker and voice in the Democratic Party is Greg Kazar. Oh, I don't know this. Explain.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He is the chairman of the Progressive Caucus, but he is a person who speaks in plain English about how things impact people. And I've had him on the show a couple times. He's been at a couple of these rallies. It's always exciting when you see people you didn't really know before, and you're like, that person makes sense. So that's exciting to me. I'm going to say my loss.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So learning how to use a teleprompter, read a teleprompter, and really learning how to write for TV, which is different from writing for a politician or writing a book or writing an op-ed. So that was its own kind of technical transition. I also think when you transition careers, sometimes you think you have to become a version of what you see, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I'm just going to stay in the political space. In the blueprint theme, since nobody knows what the blueprint is, I'm going to tell you. I have been consistently disappointed with Chuck Schumer, which I have openly talked about. Me too. I think we can move on from the debacle of the funding agreement for a moment. But here's what is disappointing.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It doesn't seem clear that any lessons have been learned because the Democrats have been on recess. There is a debate coming up about extending high-end tax cuts, which will happen in all likelihood, but this is a winning issue. It could be something you could equip people to go out to districts and whole town halls and meetings and be aligned.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I'm obsessed with Social Security and how this is something that some Democrats have effectively talked about. But the fact is, you have the Commerce Secretary saying his mother, his mother-in-law, was it his mother-in-law? Oh, whatever. He's such a clown. Wouldn't care. No, he said, did you see this? Yes, I did. Wouldn't care if her Social Security check got a week late.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It's because her son's a billionaire, you imbecile. Right! Also, like, that should be in ads everywhere. Like, I know about it, but why isn't it everywhere? So I'm not putting all the blame on him, but he's a Democratic leader. We can move on from the funding debate. Let's learn some lessons.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yes, we do too. We like to have comics on as well because I think they can talk about things happening in a way that breaks through and is real. As she said, it's a little bit more fearless because you want to be funny. Right.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Like I have to look at anchors and be an anchor. And really, you just have to be yourself. And it took me a while to feel... comfortable, not too long, but a little bit comfortable in what that meant.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
We're here for it. Someone's going to write to you and give their analysis. I love it.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I need an older son to give me dirty jokes. I know, it's true.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
You're everywhere, Cara.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Great to be with you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Next guest host better bring dirty jokes. You give them a heads up.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And in some ways, and the other thing I was very mindful of that I, when I started was I'd obviously been Joe Biden's press secretary until a couple of months before I started and until about eight months before my show started. And I didn't, I think you and I talked about this.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I thought a lot about not wanting to be perceived as his spokesperson, but also not being inauthentically, all of a sudden, I'm down the middle because I'm not. I mean, I've worked in politics for 20 years. I'm not down the middle. I have points of view. And so that was its own kind of journey for me.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Now, when the debate debacle happens and I said what I saw, as everybody saw, that maybe broke the fever of that. That wasn't my intention. But now it's a little different because... We have a new – I mean, our new show is going to be at 9 o'clock on Tuesdays through Fridays. It's launching in May.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And one of the things I've been thinking a lot about is that I kind of shied away from talking as much about my own experience and my experience in government and politics. I do sometimes, but now it feels like there is this real – hunger. And I know this anecdotally. I know this from people who, you know, message me on social media or email. I know this from people I run into the airport.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
How the hell does this work? What's how's this supposed to work? What's broken? What's not? And I think I didn't, Lord knows, work for the current president. There's many, many Democrats. That would be a great show. Oh, my God. Many, many Democrats who may run for office president one day. Who the hell knows? I root for all of them. But I don't have any dog in the... You know what I mean?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So now I feel like I can dive back into that a lot more. And give your expertise. And give my expertise. And I think I shied away from that initially because I was so worried about being perceived as kind of this continuing spokesperson.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
You love that. So you can call it whatever you want. I love that word.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, no president does. First of all, every president, I work for two, they're all pissed off when the press writes things about them that are negative, even if they're entirely fair. Now, Trump is obviously uniquely against the freedom of press, I would say. People may argue that, but I think that's a fair statement.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Now, normally in a case like this, what would happen is you have a scandal, a controversy, whatever it may be. You get together. In this case, if it were, let's just say normal times for a moment. I would have gotten together with Jake Sullivan and the national security team and Anita Dunn and Ron Clayton, and we all would have talked about like what actually happened here.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
You want to have a full understanding of the full damage, right? So it's not drip, drip, drip. This is the biggest Communications 101 mistake is not having a whole understanding of all of the things that could come out. And in this case, it would have been, what were the other signal chains? Which is probably knowable internally, but Mike Waltz also had that automatic delete after 30 days.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
The administration's 60, 70-something days old, right? And they had access to classified information during the transition, so it could have even gone beyond that. and you would have decided kind of what are we going to say about it? Is it something the press secretary says? Is it something Jake Sullivan comes and talks at the briefing about and then I answer questions?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And then before you do any of that, you go get it approved by the president. That's a normal process, right? There's no doubt that's not what happened here, but that's what you would normally do.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And, Kara, I mean, if you start your answer with something about, like, some people say I'm a conspiracy theorist or there's a – then you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I mean, it's like, you know, what are we – so, yes, they're all freewheeling. And Pete Hegseth was freewheeling somewhere, obviously. Well, Pete Hegseth went out.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, there's the crazy video from last week after Jeffrey Goldberg had put out the full, you don't have to call them war plans. They're specific logistical military attack details, right? After that had already been out on the Atlantic, Pete Hegseth went to the cameras. You know, he talks very loudly and aggressively when he's trying to deny something, which he has a lot of experience doing.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But he went out and denied it. I mean, it's just—but I also feel like this whole thing of if they just admit that there was a mistake and then we'd move on, I don't think Democrats would have, and I don't think they should have. I mean, this is just kind of like a— A fuck-up, right?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, I mean, I think there's a question, right? Does Mike Waltz survive? He's the easiest one to fire because it's not a confirmed position. And any president can name anyone they want to that position, just like any other political appointee in the White House. People can hate the choice, right? But he's the easiest one to fire. Pete Hegseth is probably the one who's more justified to be fired.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, you could argue whatever, because he's the one who put the information on there. But then he's going to nominate a new defense secretary. And I think all the reporting, which I think is true— For any president is you step away from a cabinet member and that makes you look weak, too. So that seems to be part of the discussion. I would I would bet.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Plus, getting someone to confirm for that job. So brazen it out is a better tactic here. Well, look, if you if you fire if he fires Mike Waltz, then he just names another national security adviser. Right. So they don't mind shoving him out. But I don't think they will. I don't think they will. Do you?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, which is why they're doing it, right? Right. I don't think we ever would have wished we could have done it. Maybe some people did. I just feel like it's got such a bad... it's kind of counter to what most presidents argue they're for, right?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Which is kind of rule of law, and you can be pissed off about what courts do, but it doesn't mean you ignore it, and it doesn't mean you pressure law firms not to represent clients. I mean, it's... I think it's, I mean, there's lots of things to be worried about right now, but this is one I think that's a legit one to be worried about. Because, tell me why from your perspective.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, because I think you have these law firms who are making a business decision, not a crime, but also one where it's a version, in my view, of obedience in advance. It is... deciding that in order to survive, which they have to do as a business and as a law firm, you are going to agree to things that you wouldn't normally agree to. And you give Trump power over you.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And I think for any president, that's dangerous. Maybe Democrat or Republican, but there's not a Democrat who's tried to do that. So that, but what do you, does it concern you?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I don't I don't I think some Democrats would do it. I just maybe I just think, though, it's kind of what I mean is if you're kind of an arguing part of your argument is I believe in kind of the rule of law and I believe in kind of the legal system, then then making these sort of so frontal deals with law firms feels counter to that. I mean, so I don't know.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I just, I guess there's lots of things Trump does and that Trump administration does that maybe do open floodgates.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
I think there is a way to be respectful and valuing the freedom of the press without being so old school wrapped up into the rules they want you to live by because they're not effective in terms of how you communicate with the public anymore. And that is like you got to like if you're running for president now, you're gonna be in the White House.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
You got to throw out some of how some of this is done to state the obvious.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Yeah. And also the American people, I don't think, believe that the only person who can ask a president a question is somebody who has a seat in the White House briefing room. That's just because it's not. So, you know, the notion that they're the only ones, it just isn't how the world works anymore. But yes, that was better stated than what I said. I was getting at the same point.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
But don't you think it's because they think it's – and I think it is effective, unfortunately, in getting some to obey in advance, right?
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
To not do stories so that they don't piss them off. To do extra outreach. To go, like, so beyond the pale at the extra mile. And, you know, look at all these payouts that have happened from – and more will happen. I mean, they will sue maybe all of us. I don't know. Shh, shh, shh, shh. Sorry, I guess just because I say it doesn't mean it's if I don't say it works for the network.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Well, congratulations to me. But, you know, I think it's it is it is that and it doesn't mean it's like people outlets or reporters are going to be like, oh, we're obeying in advance now. They just do it. You know what I mean? And I think they know that it can work in some capacity.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Oh, my God. That's such a good question. I mean, I'm going to steal a little bit of what Dan said, which is like Democrats sometimes don't take advantage of the cultural moments. It doesn't have to just be the Super Bowl. Sometimes there is an unwillingness or discomfort to in showing all sides of yourself. You know, I mean, there's a lot of like extremely smart Democrats out there.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
A lot of them are elected. You don't have to always talk like you are defending your PhD thesis, right? At every moment, you can talk about your love for sports, football, art, cultural things, music, whatever it may be. There is a stiffness sometimes is one of the things I would say. Maybe there's another way of saying it. But everyone needs to let their hair down a little bit more. I don't know.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
I just used 12 analogies. But I think you know what I mean.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
The other thing I would say about communicators, which is less about the attention, but I do think it helps you in this regard, is – One of the things that helped me in being the bridesmaid many times for the press secretary job and never the bride until finally is that you have to know the policy and the policy and the substance of the person you're working for. What do they believe?
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Why do they believe it? What's the answer to the 18th question? Sometimes people think of being a press secretary and this is where people get confused about the attention question as being able to craft a good tweet or X or whatever the hell we're calling it. It's not just that.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
It's like you've got to understand the depth of the housing policy so you can help your boss figure out how to communicate and talk about it in a human way. And sometimes I think that part is undervalued.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
I'm like, I think of like, which I still don't know if I could explain now, but like credit default swaps was like a phrase that came out of my mouth a lot in 2009.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Oh, sometimes we're pro-doge.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Can I give them two more pieces of advice?
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Because we're rooting for these people to bring us back from the brink.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
One is, this is so obvious and old school, but like, why are you running for president? Please determine the answer to that question. The second thing is, figure out what you actually think of a range of policy issues, right? I mean, we go through this thing where you see politicians try to bend themselves into a pretzel answering questions about any range of issues.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And it's like, start with the place. And this is like to comps people who are advising people who may run for president. What do you think about what's happening in Israel? What do you actually think? Right. What do you think should happen with health care? And I think sometimes it gets so wrapped up in like poll tested language and words that it's confusing and it doesn't feel authentic.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And if you piss some people off, that's OK. And I think we've gotten a little bit away from that.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Well, but that is such a good – I will say, just to go back to the New York Times editorial board thing. It's like there is still people who are of the age who might run for president who think if you have a Washington Post op-ed – I keep picking on them. It's really – it's not even Jeff Bezos related. Like that's written in the print form. You're reaching America. I'm here to tell you you're not.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And so actually to Dan's point – Don't be so fragile about like what the name of the outlet is, like who is reaching people and how is it reaching them? And is it reaching the audience you're trying to reach? That's it. It doesn't matter what their name is. Doesn't matter how long they've been around. Doesn't matter what their masthead is or no masthead.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And that that would serve a lot of people well, too.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Yes, that's true. Please stop yourself.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Okay, when we asked Pete Buttigieg, who Chris just mentioned is going to be our first guest, he's coming up shortly, but when we asked him to come on our first show just a couple weeks ago, I kind of thought we'd mainly talk about politics, and we definitely will. We will talk a lot about politics. He's got a lot to say about it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I also wanted to ask you, I mean, you served yourself as a reservist, as a Navy reserve officer. And I mentioned this earlier. There's a memo that doesn't have a lot of details, but it basically suggests that the secretary of defense wants to cut a minimum of 20 percent of the number of four star generals and admirals on active duty, a corresponding number of generals in the National Guard.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
This seems to be at a time where having a strong military is, it's always important, but what do you, how do you think about those cuts in terms of how they could impact our military preparedness and of course the men and women serving out there?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
You know what it's like to come into an agency where you have to learn a lot, where you have to respect all of the expertise, where you have to value classified information. I mean, this isn't the first controversy, scandal, self-inflicted one that Pete Hegseth has been a part of.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
What have been going through your head as you've watched him operate over the last couple of months and you're seeing him leading one of the most important agencies in the federal government?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Well said. We have a lot more to talk about, including politics, the future of the Democratic Party. Pete Buttigieg, you're sticking right with me for one more block. I appreciate you. And we want to talk about how you've been showing up in surprising places and what that's all about, too. I have so many more questions. We'll be right back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Now, obviously, that ad at the time, 15 years ago, was meant to paint a relative political newcomer, Barack Obama, as someone who was totally unprepared to deal with the middle of the night calls when a crisis hits. And to be fair, it is a fundamental question that everybody should consider about any president and the people they surround themselves with.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
We are back with former Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg, as promised. And we're going to talk about a lot of politics. So let me just start here. There's been, to state the obvious, a ton of conversations about the future of the Democratic Party. You've been about a part of a lot of them. I think this is a really healthy thing that's happening right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And I wanted to read you something Senator Bernie Sanders said this week that I think you probably agree with, but I just wanted to talk to you more about it. He said, the American people, I think, not only want resistance to Trump, but I think they want what the Democratic Party in the last many years has not given them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And that is an agenda that speaks to the needs of the working class because it's not good enough. Now, you may not agree with all of that. We should talk about that. This sounds to me, though, a little I'm old enough to remember when you ran for the chair of the DNC and you made kind of a similar point. You've been kind of saying something similar. So I guess, what does that look like to you?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
The other part of that there's been some, again, healthy debate about is, you know, is it a policy question? Is it a messaging question? Is it a where you appear question? You've talked about all three of these. Let me just start with the policy question.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And I keep thinking about that ad because right now, the guy sitting in the Oval Office picked this guy to answer the middle of the night calls about what is happening in our skies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Do you think the policies of the Democratic Party, the party you've been a part of, need to be more ambitious and bigger than what we've seen over the last couple of years?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
As a part of this, I mean, you've also talked a little bit about how we can't fight every battle. You can describe what you mean by this. And I agree with this and I understand what you're saying. It's you have to prioritize what you're emphasizing publicly. And a lot of what you just said to me was about domestic issues, things that impact people's lives who are just living day to day.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
What are the battles you think shouldn't be a part of the public fight that Democrats are fighting right now?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
No question about that. I have a lot of thoughts on free speech. I suspect I will be sharing on this show in the coming weeks. Pete Buttigieg, it's always a pleasure talking to you. You always say interesting things, and I can talk to you about so many things. So thank you so much for being here for our first 9 p.m. show.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Thank you. Coming up, Maryland Governor Wes Moore is going to join me live. I'm going to talk to him about activism, pushing back on the Trump administration, and what the heck is going on with Social Security right now. But first, Republicans continue to engage in what I'm just going to call performative patriotism, as brand new reporting sheds light on a VA that is failing real patriots.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I've got some thoughts about that. I'm going to talk about it when we come back. Donald Trump and his allies love, and I mean love, to lecture Americans about what it means to be patriotic. They get to define it. That's how they see it. It's become pretty clear by now that their brand of patriotism is based primarily on what I would call performative things.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Sean from the real world Boston, who you just saw there, is, of course, Trump Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. Now, part of the reason I am bringing up that he was on MTV's Road Rules All Stars, a good season, if I may say, back in the 1990s, is because it's kind of funny. But the other reason is that this was the most relevant part of Mr. Duffy's resume to lead the Transportation Department.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I mean, just consider what they've been focused on over the last few weeks. In the House, Republicans advanced a bill to officially rename the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of America. It's an accomplishment, I'm putting in quotes because they're touting it, that Republican Speaker Mike Johnson even took a moment to tout on social media.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Probably more pressing matters that the House could tackle, don't you think? But sure, I guess tout it. Now, over at the White House, Trump has been busy redecorating, putting his personal touch on pretty much everything. Talked about some of it today. He's actually scouting the North and South Lawns for a place to put two new flagpoles that he says will be nearly 100 feet tall.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
What I didn't realize at the time is he would also kind of be the perfect person to talk to at this moment for a very different reason. I mean, just hours ago, we learned that last night, just after midnight at San Francisco International Airport, two United Airlines planes clipped each other's wings. They were still in the tarmac when it happened. Thankfully, nobody, of course, was hurt.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Trump told reporters that he was installing them because, quote, they've needed flagpoles for 200 years. I mean, have they really? Of course, we also know that the Trump administration is planning a military parade in Washington, D.C. for June 14th. That's the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army. It also happens to be Donald Trump's birthday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Now, you might remember that Trump tried to hold a military parade during his first term. Remember that? But those plans were curtailed over the cost. And concern, of course, that military vehicles, like tanks, would damage the streets of D.C. Of course they would. I mean, apparently, I guess those are not considered problems this time around. I don't know.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
According to officials, the early estimate also puts the cost of Trump's parade at as much as $45 million. So, yeah, it's a lot of costly pageantry, I guess I could call it. Look at our newly labeled maps, our new giant flag, 100 foot flagpoles and the White House lawn, the tanks rolling down the streets of D.C., What about the kind of patriotism that goes beyond the public displays?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
The kind of patriotism that demonstrates, you know, actual solidarity with your fellow Americans? When you look for that kind of patriotism, Donald Trump and Republican leadership are woefully lacking. Now, there are a lot of places to highlight here. Maybe we'll talk about it more in the future. Like, say, Trump's dramatic cuts to things like public health, disaster relief, food banks.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I just want to focus right now on the Department of Veterans Affairs. This serves people who have been serving our country. Take a look at these photos obtained by The New York Times. Since Trump overturned remote work arrangements for federal employees, these are some of the cramped office spaces that VA mental health physicians have had to use while providing teletherapy to veterans.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
It has, of course, led to a dramatic lack of privacy for veterans seeking mental health care, which clinicians have said is limiting the effectiveness of the treatment. Of course it is. Those conditions are also pushing some providers to quit or to retire early.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And that's all happening at a moment when the VA is already facing severe shortages of psychologists and psychiatrists who are serving veterans around the country. This isn't even mentioning the effect of Trump's cuts to the VA. According to internal VA emails obtained by ProPublica, the cuts are jeopardizing veterans' care, including to life-saving cancer trials.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And that damage to life-saving care is coming before the Trump administration goes through with its plan to eliminate at least 70,000 of the 500,000 employees who work at the agency, most of whom work in VA hospitals or VA clinics. So you want to be patriotic? I mean, we should be all for that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And I am not kidding here. I'm not being tongue in cheek or exaggerating. I mean, a local reporter in the Wisconsin Examiner who has covered Duffy's career since 2009 put it this way. He said, quote, I only have one account in all those years when he even mentioned a transportation issue. The reporter goes on. I love the emphasis. That's it. One mention of a transportation issue.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
How about less focus on maps and flagpoles and parades and more on providing quality care for the people who actually serve the country? Because despite what Trump and MAGA world, I guess, thinks, patriotism isn't about simple displays, which means that Democrats also have an opportunity to push for a deeper definition of patriotism.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Well, during his commencement address at Lincoln University on Sunday, Maryland Governor Westmore presented his own version.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Maryland Governor Wes Morris standing by and he joins me next. Over the past few months, we have seen a tremendous surge of activism. Rachel Maddow has been covering it so closely, as have some others. I mean, everyday Americans taking to the streets, week after week after week, in some surprising places, to protest against the actions of the Trump administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
There have been protests against Trump's immigration policy, his tariff hikes, the broad dismantling of government agencies like Social Security, and of course, the mass firing of government employees. This weekend, we saw a demonstration in Washington, D.C. in support of those who've been indiscriminately laid off.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And today, a group of fired federal workers staged a sit-in, you can see it right there, on the steps of the U.S. Capitol. Of course, these protests are not at all limited to D.C. As you've seen, those of you who've been watching this show for the last 100 days, as more than 80% also of the federal workforce lives outside of our nation's Capitol.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Federal workers are everywhere, including in places like Maryland, where one out of every 10 workers is a federal employee. Joining me now is the Democratic governor of Maryland, Wes Moore. Governor, it is great to see you. Thank you so much for taking the time to join me tonight. I really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Thank you so much. I wanted to start. I just played a clip of your speech this week, and I encourage everybody to watch the whole thing. We played a clip of it there. I mean, in some ways, peaceful protesting, I think, is one of the most patriotic things a citizen can do. Peaceful protesting.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And over the weekend, when you talked about patriotism at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, you talked about reclaiming it, reclaiming it as something that you and others and Democrats and others, people who were just out there, average citizens can reclaim. I wonder what you thought as you're watching these protests that have happened over the last couple of months, happened in your states.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Do you think that's part of reclaiming patriotism?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
So, yeah, I mean, Sean from the real world Boston is the guy in charge of our nation's skies at the moment. He is the one who would answer the 3 a.m. phone call. And while he was not picked by Trump for his work on the real world that we know of, never say never, we don't entirely know for sure, he was picked in part, in large part, because of his work on Fox News.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I talked a little bit about in the last block about this performative patriotism, as I called it, which is spending money on costly parades, putting up 100 foot flagpoles. There's a lot of ways to reclaim it. And you talked about this a lot. You and I have talked about this before for people who are out there and even from a political sense for Democrats. How do they kind of reclaim it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Is it drawing the contrast? Is it not being afraid to talk about it? How should they do it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
One of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you tonight and I always am excited to talk to you is that you make a lot of sense about the contrast that needs to be drawn between Democrats and the current administration. And we've seen a lot of reporting. There's been a ton of reporting even this week about the Trump family's money making operations.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
This is important because being susceptible to corruption means it impacts the decisions you make. And I think you agree with this because you just signed a law that effectively makes you and every Maryland governor that succeeds you for the future divest from your businesses and put your assets in a blind trust. I know why this is important. I think everybody watching knows why this is important.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
But for people who have governors who haven't done this yet, what should they know about why this is important for other governors to do across the country?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And because of his willingness to go on national TV and basically politicize any issue. A willingness that seems to continue to this day. I mean, case in point, the aforementioned Newark airport crisis.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
You're going to be relieved to only have 30 seconds left because I have to ask you before you go. You were recently on The View. The ladies of The View were sighing when you said you are not running for president. I noticed you used the present tense. So you're telling me I think there's a zero percent chance. Is there a zero percent chance you are jumping into the race in 2028?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Can people keep some hope out there who are interested in more of what you have to say?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Had to try. Governor Westmore, always love talking to you. Thank you so much. And we'll be right back after a quick break. I just wanted to end tonight by saying thank you for spending the hour with us. We're going to be here four nights a week to read the fine print, which I will do. Dig into the things that people currently in power may not want us to talk about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
That, of course, means calling out lies and competence and cruelty when we see it. One thing I've learned over the years is that you can never cower to bullies. And I have no intention to do that. We'll be here to talk with the people who are speaking out, as we did tonight, who are using every lever of power possible to push back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I don't know about you, but I feel pretty hopeful listening to Pete Buttigieg and Westmore tonight. And I want to spend time talking to people like that. That won't always mean politicians and lawmakers and people here in Washington, because I know there are people all around you in every corner of the country trying to make a difference in so many different ways.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And we want to tell those stories, too. I hope this is a place where you can come to figure out what's really going on, both in your communities and here in the town where every day decisions are being made that definitely impact your life. We'll see you back here tomorrow night at 9 p.m. Eastern. Governor Tim Walz and Senator Raphael Warnock will be my guests.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
So again, they've been in office for more than 100 days. A conservative host, who's sympathetic, asked the current transportation secretary about a current crisis happening right now at one of the biggest airports in the country, an international airport, by the way, too. And his response was to blame the Biden administration, which hasn't been in office for more than three months.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And that comes as today, the Washington Post reported that Sean Duffy's Federal Aviation Administration also suspended the work of the independent panel of experts in charge of reviewing what is actually going wrong with air traffic control. I mean, we'd love to know the answer to that, right?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
The Post reports that expert panel's work has been put on hold completely since February, as in a couple of months ago. Betting. I'm kind of betting. The last transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, may have some thoughts on that. I'm going to talk with him about it in a moment. But the most important thing here is this. This is still a crisis.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I mean, it needs to be solved by the people who are currently in power. It's not just Newark either. On Friday, two commercial planes had to abort their landings at D.C. 's Reagan National Airport because an Army helicopter entered the airport's airspace.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
That, of course, comes just months after 67 people were killed in a collision at that same airport between a commercial jet and an Army helicopter. Now as for Friday's near-miss, the AP reported that the Army helicopter appeared to take the, quote, scenic route around the Pentagon, the scenic route.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And then in subsequent reporting, the AP added that the helicopter in question was part of a battalion that provides transport to top Pentagon officials. Now, that raises lots of questions. And if you're wondering what top Pentagon officials were taking helicopters on the scenic route here, you're not alone. I'm also wondering that. But here's the thing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Sean from the real world, the transportation secretary, doesn't seem to know either.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
But it, of course, isn't an isolated incident. I mean, it comes on the heels of yesterday's news that a radar failure left the air traffic controllers managing Newark Airport operating blind. without radar or radio communication for 90 seconds last week, 90 seconds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Let's call them right now. You call Pete. Okay, I got it. I love that he's kind of an observer of the crisis that his actual agency oversees. And why don't you call Pete? That would make a lot of sense. I hear he's very reachable on Signal. If you're trying to reach him right now, good way to get him.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Now, to be fair, Pete Hegseth, you know, the other Fox host who turned into a cabinet secretary, seems to be a theme here, has his own growing list of problems right now that might be tying him up a little bit, maybe making it harder for him to take a call. Who knows?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
The latest being this report from Reuters that a few months ago had Seth apparently shut off military aid to Ukraine all on his own without telling anybody. And here's what the story says. Roughly a week after Donald Trump started his second term as president, the U.S. military issued an order. Stop 11 flights loaded with artillery shells and other weaponry bound for Ukraine.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
In a matter of hours, frantic questions, of course, reached Washington from Ukrainians in Kyiv. Top national security officials in the White House, the Pentagon, and the State Department couldn't provide answers. Now, records reviewed by Reuters indicate that, quote, there was a verbal order from the Secretary of Defense that stopped the flights. That's how it happened.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
The president, though, was unaware of Hegseth's order, as were other top national security officials. And three sources told Reuters that the cancellations happened in this chain of events. Hegseth met in the Oval Office with Trump and, quote, misinterpreted discussions with the president about Ukraine policy and aid shipments. That is quite a misinterpretation, I will say.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Sounds like Pete Hegseth met with the president, thought he wanted him to cut off aid to Ukraine immediately, and then he just went and ordered the planes to stop. And what followed, of course, was mass confusion within the U.S. government, within Ukraine, from European partners, from basically anybody involved.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
According to the Reuters piece, the Ukrainians quickly asked the administration through multiple channels but had difficulty obtaining any useful information. They were, of course, the ones waiting for the artillery and the military equipment. They're in the middle of a war right now. They couldn't get any information.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Now, in a normal White House, there's a system in place, a big bureaucratic system that has been working for Democratic and Republican administrations to keep something like this from happening.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Typically, there'd be an entire process run through the National Security Council where all the considerations about freezing military support for an ally would be discussed and sometimes aggressively debated. That's a healthy part of the process, too. People from the intel community and the State Department and the Defense Department all have different objectives and things they need to raise.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
That's an important part of the process before they tee up a decision to the president. Any president makes the final decision. But all of that coordination and yes, debate means everyone is also prepared to implement, which also requires a tremendous amount of coordination to get it right, because there are many different levers of power being worked from the U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
And by the way, NBC also reported late today that air traffic control at Newark lost contact with pilots at least two other times since August, not an isolated incident either. But that latest incident that I just mentioned that occurred last week was so bad that it led to multiple FAA employees being placed on trauma leave. Of course, why wouldn't it? It's incredibly traumatic.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
government and in touch with officials overseas at all times. No one typically is surprised within the U.S. government and ideally not allies and partners either. It's clearly the state, the obvious, not what happened here. But it all should serve as a pretty stark reminder as to why the National Security Council is actually pretty necessary.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
According to the Washington Post, though, some senior White House officials are questioning the need to even have a National Security Council at all. I mean, who needs all that expertise and debating and coordination among agencies when your cabinet can just handle communication and policymaking through a dozen signal group chats or many other signal group chats? I'm sure we'll find out about more.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Seems to be working well so far, doesn't it? I mean, meanwhile, Pete Hexeth has also found the time in all of this last couple of days to issue an order to cut 20 percent of the military's generals and admirals. 20 percent.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
The one page memo has few details about how these cuts will happen or which positions will be cut or whether dozens of high ranking, long serving expert military officers are about to get summarily fired.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
But what we know is that he thinks eliminating four-star generals will, according to him, help us, and this is his direct quote, uphold our position as the most lethal fighting force in the world. That is hard to wrap your head around, that argument. But that's what he said. So... To some, it's all up here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
We appear to have a White House that has no functioning or coherent process, which matters for making or implementing decisions. At the same time that it is hollowing out expertise inside the military and other government agencies, investigating things like our airs and sky and making sure planes are safe.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I guess, though, we shouldn't be surprised that Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy was back on Fox News today, I guess it went so well yesterday, complaining that he still can't get any answers from the Pentagon about that Army helicopter causing those aborted landings at Reagan Airport last week. I don't know why the Pentagon hasn't gotten back to you on this yet, but we hope they sure do soon.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
So do I. So do we. I mean, what's happening here? He works in the same administration. Fortunately, tonight we have with us the former Secretary of Transportation. We can ask him about this and everything else that has gone down since he left office a few months ago. Pete Buttigieg is standing by and he joins me live in just 90 seconds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
As promised, joining me now is former Secretary of Transportation, former Mayor Pete Buttigieg. It's great to see you. Good to be with you. Bearded and all. There's so much I want to talk to you about. We're going to get to politics. So much to talk about there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
But as I noted at the top of the show, you're kind of the perfect person to talk to about a lot of what's happening right now that a lot of Americans are concerned about. And just so people know, you don't get a secret memo when you're out of government as to the internal workings of airports. But you were the transportation secretary for four years.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
As you're looking at what happened at the Newark airport, at the cutoff of contact for air traffic controllers, what do you make of what's going on there?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
But given how out of control this all feels and how scared not just the air traffic controllers, but many people out there are to fly right now, I keep thinking about an ad that ran during the 2008 primary campaign, which you also may remember.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
You're also the perfect person to ask about. I mentioned some of this, but in February, apparently, the administration halted an outside panel of experts responsible for reviewing the FAA's air traffic control management. We learned today that there was the firing of the vice chair of the NTSB, of course, responsible for investigating. What should people understand about the impact of all of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
Everybody who's worried about traveling right now. I mean, to your point, safe air travel is not a partisan issue. This is something everybody cares about. Everybody's impacted by. And now the current transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, of real world fame, which I'm just going to keep saying, basically blamed the whole thing on the Biden administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
I just want to play a clip of him because I'm sure you might have some thoughts on this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
What do you make of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: The Trump administration fails the 3 a.m. phone call test
From the last administration and prior to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Okay, everyone, I mean, this was the scene on Capitol Hill today. Members of the disability community, you can see them right there in the video, showed up at a House committee meeting to protest Republicans' proposed changes to Medicaid in their budget bill, changes that the Congressional Budget Office says could cause millions of Americans to lose insurance coverage. What better to protest?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
It is quite a glaring, glaring grift here. There have been some, now comments are one thing, actions are another, let's be honest. But Senator Ted Cruz, who I suspect you don't agree with that often, but he said this plane poses significant espionage and surveillance problems, which I'm betting you agree with. I mean, part of this is having to retrofit, remove potentially foreign agents.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
entities from a plane. You're the former chair of the House Intel Committee. Talk us through, help people understand what that looks like. And I assume you agree with them. What does that mean?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
But there are more wrinkles to it, because the New York Times looked into this, and they noted neither the Trump numbers or the Saudi numbers are remotely even possible. Here's what they said. The figure Mr. Trump is seeking exceeds the value of all assets in the kingdom's hefty sovereign wealth fund, meaning there's no way they can come up with that money.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Do you think—I am not Pollyannish. You definitely are not. There have been a bit of an outcry from more Republicans in the Senate and otherwise than I've seen about a lot of things. Have you heard privately from them about a willingness to, say, support this effort to get the DOD IG to look into this or other efforts to stop Trump from attempting to get this $400 million plane?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
It's quite a campaign ad I can visualize with a $400 million cuttery plane just flying next to a person running for office. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much. Really appreciate you joining us. We'll be following this effort to get the IG to investigate very closely. And coming up, what are you supposed to do when a foreign power offers you a lavish gift?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
This is a question we really need to understand these days. Well, my friend Ben Rhodes has some unique insight to offer on that topic. And spoiler alert, I promise you he did not keep the briefcase full of jewels when he found them in his hotel room in Saudi Arabia. But we'll talk about it when we come back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
We've obviously never seen anything remotely close to a foreign country gifting an American president a free – it's not really free to the taxpayer, by the way – $400 million luxury plane. But big oil rich nations have been showering U.S. politicians with lavish gifts for decades. This goes way back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
One expert told The Times, quote, I don't see how they get anywhere close to $600 billion, let alone $1 trillion. That's where we are with the math. Then that leads us to today. When Trump arrived in Saudi Arabia, he was met with big signs boasting that the Saudis would be investing $300 billion. You can see the sign right there. They literally made that signage in advance in the US.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I mean, in 1985, Saudi Arabia gave Ronald Reagan a gold and enamel egg with a tiny bejeweled clock inside. You can see it right there on your screen. The country of Azerbaijan gifted the Clintons in 1997 a fancy rug emblazoned with their portraits on it. There you go. That's special.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
In 2008, Libya's leader, Muammar Gaddafi, gave Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice a massive diamond ring, massive, and a locket with an outline of the African continent and a picture of Gaddafi as a much, much younger man. You can see it there on your screen. It was well known he also had a bit of a crush on her, and it definitely shows with that gift.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
But government officials and even presidents don't get to keep those gifts unless they pay for them out of pocket. So unless Secretary Rice forked over a bunch of cash, she is not currently the owner of that massive diamond ring. It's the government's property. And the U.S. government can choose to donate, sell, or otherwise dispose of gifts like that if they see fit.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Or they can be loaned out to presidential libraries. Now, I remember this all made me think about one particular trip back in 2009 when President Obama went to Saudi Arabia. And the king gave gifts, big ones, not just to the Obamas, but to several of his advisors, including Ben Rhodes, who wrote about it in his book, The World As It Is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And he wrote about what was waiting for him in his room on that trip when he returned from a day of meetings. Here's what he wrote. When I opened the door to my unit, I found a large suitcase. Inside were jewels. Now, pivotally, he explains, no one kept them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
It feels like this White House, I think it's safe to say, is approaching things a little bit differently, but it felt worth discussing how this is supposed to work. So joining me now is Ben Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor for President Obama and someone I trust as much as anybody to explain foreign policy stuff like this and many other things. Okay, Ben, I was not on this trip.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I do remember it well because I think it was sort of shocking to those of you who received these suitcases, this surprise suitcases of jewels and other things. And I remember you all wanting to kind of get as far away from it as possible. So I just want to start there because I think it helps explain how abnormal what we're seeing now is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
It's quaint almost remembering these times. It was like a hot potato wanting to get rid of the suitcase of jewels back in the day. I mean, one of the things just watching this, I've thought a lot about how much we thought about President Obama's first foreign trip, President Biden's first foreign trip.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And what's striking about this, watching all of this, is the Gulf states seem to love how transactional Donald Trump is. I mean, Qatar seems to love it. MBS seems to love it. Why wouldn't he? Trump basically seems to want deals for him and his buddies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I mean, they made it, but they made it for the trip. Now, that is obviously quite a bit less. It's actually less than a third of what Trump originally said. Let's be honest, this is something we have come to expect, right, from Donald Trump. He loves to move the goalposts, and he's moved them constantly all the course of the time he's been in office, certainly during his first administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
But my question is, what are they, if you're thinking about it and you're sitting in the sit room, you've been to more meetings like this than I have, what are they expecting in return?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I know what I was thinking. I was wondering what you were thinking, given how many trips you've been on and how you've written books about this. When you saw that video today of Trump and MBS and Elon Musk basically yucking it up, what was going through your mind?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Ben Rhodes, I always love talking to you. Every time I talk to you, I think people know what it was like to call you when we were working together. It's always helpful. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Coming up, her name is Dr. Alondra Nelson, and today she announced she is resigning in protest from her positions at the National Science Foundation and the Library of Congress. She says she will not sit idly by as the White House threatens the foundational tenets of our democracy. And she joins me live for her first TV interview to talk about all of it when we come right back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Remember back in his first term, the term White House announced a controversial deal to sell $110 billion worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia, $110 billion. This was all right around the same time that the Saudi government brutally murdered and dismembered American journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
So that was the answer that the White House gave last week when a reporter asked why Trump had fired Carla Hayden, the long serving Librarian of Congress. Now, despite what her answer seems to suggest, the Library of Congress is not a lending library. While it holds tens of millions of publications and manuscripts, presidential papers, and other material, it doesn't loan books out to children.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And if Caroline Levitt really doesn't understand why the Library of Congress holds books she doesn't like, here is a quick civic education film to bring her up to speed, courtesy, of course, of the U.S. government.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
That's right. The Copyright Office is part of the Library of Congress, so it has a whole lot of books, including ones the Trump administration may not like. That's part of its purpose. It also houses the Congressional Research Service, an agency that works exclusively for Congress to provide confidential policy and legal analysis to lawmakers regardless of party.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
That's why it was pretty notable that yesterday Trump named his former personal attorney and current Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch as the acting Librarian of Congress. But then when Blanch's deputies tried to enter the building yesterday morning, they were stopped at the door. According to the New York Times, staff members of the library balked and called the U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Capitol Police, as well as their general counsel, who told the two officials that they were not allowed access. Thankfully, they left without incident. But the fact that Trump is trying to install an executive branch official to lead a legislative agency is incredibly concerning, especially given the privileged information that the Library of Congress holds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
As an expert pointed out to Rolling Stone, we know that when Trump and the Doge people have gone elsewhere, the first thing done is they exfiltrated their data. How can a member of Congress ask the Congressional Research Service for legal advice or other advice when the administration can get their hands on it or they can direct the answer?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
So it sure seems like Trump's attempt to take over the Library of Congress is about perhaps a lot more than just books he doesn't like, I think. In an op-ed today announcing her resignation from the National Science Board and the Library of Congress Scholars Council, Dr. Alondra Nelson is sounding the alarm.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And a lot of people, including even Republicans, did not want Trump to reward Saudi Arabia with this big arms deal. But the Trump administration went forward with it anyway, claiming the deal would potentially support tens of thousands of new jobs in the United States. And I will tell you, the phrase potentially supporting was doing a whole lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
She writes, the dismissal of Carla Hayden represents not merely a personnel change, but a statement about what kind of knowledge stewardship is deemed acceptable. And Dr. Alondra Nelson joins me for her very first interview since announcing those resignations when we come back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Here are some incredibly powerful words written today by Dr. Alondra Nelson, who this morning publicly resigned from her advisory positions at the National Science Foundation and the Library of Congress in protest of Trump's attempts to take over those two agencies. Here's part of what she said, quote,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Even as the White House threatens the foundational tenets of constitutional democracy and continues to slash funding for essential social services, it is tempting to hope that the public institutions charged with promoting and protecting knowledge will nevertheless soldier on with their mission. I did. But she goes on to say that perseverance has its limits.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
The erosion of these institutions' integrity and the growing realization that it is impossible to fulfill their missions in good faith has made the cost of continuing untenable. What then is the responsible course of action? For me, the answer now lies in refusal, the withdrawal of participation from systems that require dishonesty as the price of belonging.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
My resignation represents such a refusal, not a surrender of responsibility, but an assertion of it. Joining me now is Dr. Alondra Nelson, professor and social sciences chair at the prestigious Institute for Advanced Study. Dr. Nelson, thank you so much for joining me. I want to start by, I just read a number of very powerful parts of your op-ed piece that I have here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I've highlighted all of it as well, but I want to start by asking you just to talk about why you decided to resign and, of course, what did I miss in describing some of the reasoning that you laid out in this op-ed?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Because Trump boasted about this deal repeatedly. And every time he did, the numbers kept changing. Do you see a pattern here? I mean, they changed a lot in this case. Watch this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Now, the people there, you can see them all. They're voicing their freedom of speech right there. They interrupted the meeting with shouts of, no cuts to Medicaid, no cuts to Medicaid, and were promptly escorted out of the building by police officers. 25 of them were arrested. And then, even after all that, Republicans went forward with their first step toward enacting those Medicaid cuts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
You—I mentioned that—and it's so helpful for people to understand all these pieces and what all of these agencies do, so thank you so much for explaining all of that. I mentioned you have this very powerful op-ed, and a number of things you said in here, I think, apply quite broadly, I would say.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I mean, one of the things you talk about is how the takeover, Trump's takeover of the institutions is an attempt to limit knowledge and silence voice. You've talked in specifics about these two words, but how do you see that happening under Trump, as somebody who clearly is a believer in knowledge and in science and in information?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And so I think... Dr. Nelson, I don't want to cut you off. I want you to come back and talk to me more. My show is just about to end, so I don't want to cut you off in the middle. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you'll come back and talk to me more about all of this. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Jen. Nice to see you. That does it for me today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram and TikTok. For now, goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I mean, from 40,000 jobs to over a million jobs. That was in the span of just seven months, by the way, all those clips. Now, in the end, Saudi Arabia didn't even purchase the whole $110 billion worth of weapons that Trump announced in the first place. In fact, they actually spent less money on American goods and services than they did during Barack Obama's second term.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
It was all kind of a big shell game. And that appears to be exactly what we're seeing this time around as well. I mean, by now you have definitely heard that one of Trump's biggest agenda items on this Middle East trip is to accept a big $400 million luxury plane as a gift from the nation of Qatar. He wants the plane to become the new Air Force One.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
but only for the duration of his presidency, after which ownership of the plane would be transferred to Trump's presidential library. How convenient is all of that? Now, the whole thing is obviously super shady. We're going to talk to a bunch of people about it tonight. And even a lot of conservatives don't want Trump to accept this plane. But Trump says it's too good a deal to pass up.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
In a post on his social media site, he called the new plane a gift free of charge, in all caps, internet shouting style. which is definitely not true either. I mean, look at this reporting from Politico. They say a private contractor would have to rip the jet apart to turn it into a flying White House for the president with secure communications and classified upgrades.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
That is certainly what is on Air Force One. An expensive and complicated prospect that could cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. Add to that the significant cost of sweeping the aircraft for software modifications or embedded foreign tech. So Trump's big, free-of-charge gift plane looks a lot more expensive when you factor all that in.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And bear in mind, the US government is already spending billions of dollars on building two new Air Force One planes right here in the US, made by an American company. But Trump doesn't care about these costs for the American taxpayer. Obviously, he doesn't. What he really cares about is his new palace in the sky and, of course, big checks for his billionaire buddies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
I mean, he doesn't even hide it sometimes. They're going to walk away with a lot of checks. That's what the billionaires are getting out of this trip. The question is, I mean, he's there as the US American president. What are the American people getting out of this trip?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Because if this trip won't actually create a million American jobs, which it clearly won't, if the $400 million plane could actually cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars, if all of Trump's stated reasons for making this trip his first big trip abroad, if all of those stated reasons aren't really standing up even to the slightest bit of scrutiny, I mean, I've just scratched the surface here,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
then why is Trump really there? Well, for the same reason all those billionaires are there. Lots and lots of money. not for the American taxpayer, but for Trump and his family directly. And remember, none of this is exactly new. I mean, do you remember how universally Trump was shunned after January 6th? Banks cut ties with Trump, social media companies kicked him off their platforms.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Just to name a few companies, AT&T, Amazon, Best Buy, Marriott, Walmart, Airbnb, Disney, American Airlines, UPS, General Motors, Coca-Cola, the list of companies could go on and on. that actively distanced themselves from Trump after January 6th. And there was one type of company, though, that shunned Trump in a way that really, really stung him. The Professional Golfers Association, the PGA.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And that all created what I would consider quite a split-screen moment today, because as those concerned citizens you just saw protesting in the House what the impact of Medicaid cuts would be on their lives and many of the lives of their friends and colleagues around the country, where was Donald Trump?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
They cut ties with Trump. Remember this? The league canceled their championship at Trump's Bedminster Golf Club. Across the pond in England, their professional golf league dropped Trump as a potential host for their championship, which for the owner of a golf-centered real estate empire... was a pretty big blow.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Now, at the time, Trump owned 17 golf courses around the world, some of them reportedly charging six figures just for the honor of being initiated as a member. And while some of the price tag there came from people trying to gain access to the president, remember in January of 2021, gaining access to Trump wasn't exactly a hot ticket.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
But right now, as Trump's golf empire was losing, but right as it was losing its biggest draws, an entirely new league filled the void. This is Live Golf. When it launched in 2021, its slogan was golf but louder, which seems like who made that up in a room? I don't know, but that was its slogan.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And while the PGA and the British League RNA were cutting ties with Trump, Live Golf was making lots of deals. They hosted a tournament at Trump's Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, and another at Trump's Golf Club in Doral, Florida. The league used hundreds of millions of dollars to attract golf's top athletes and make those tournaments at Trump properties actually matter to sports fans.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
So who exactly was behind this brand new golf league that was saving Trump's golf empire and probably his ego? Well, the Saudi sovereign wealth fund.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Now, if you're wondering where you remember the Saudi sovereign wealth fund from, you may be thinking of when that same fund gave Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner's venture capital firm a cool $2 billion, just six months after Kushner himself left the White House. Nice work if you can get it, I guess.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
But if that wasn't enough, last year a real estate firm with deep ties to the Saudi Arabian government struck a deal for a new development project, literally for a Trump Tower Saudi Arabia. But of course, that is just some of the money that Trump and his family have received from one country on Trump's Middle East trip. That is just the money from Saudi Arabia. One stop.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
He's also set to visit Qatar and the UAE. Now, just last month, Trump's adult son, Eric Trump, flew to Qatar to sign a deal to build yet another Trump-branded golf course.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
This one, which will be built by a Saudi Arabian developer and will be located just north of Qatar's capital city, Doha, has a reported price tag of $5.5 billion and is reportedly set to include an 18-hole golf course, a theme park, and beachfront villas. Now, that deal was just linked last month, just last month.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Well, the President of the United States was nearly 7,000 miles away, sitting in a gilded palace surrounded by billionaires.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
And that, of course, comes on top of the $400 million plane Qatar is reportedly planning to gift Trump. We'll come back and talk about that more in the show for sure. So that's just some of what Trump is getting from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. But he has a third stop, too. What about the UAE? What is he getting from them?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Well, these are the mock-ups from the new Trump International Hotel and Tower in Dubai. Again, just last month, Trump's adult son Eric inked a deal for the Saudi-linked development company Darglobal to build this billion-dollar, 80-story tower in the UAE. The plans boast a gym and a club called The Trump. What's being built is the highest pool in the world on the roof, so there's that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
But most importantly, this joint that you see comes with 126 hotel rooms, 446 apartments, with prices starting at just north of a million dollars each. And Penthouse is going for $20 million a pop. Again, all nice work if you can get it, nice digs too. Now I should say it's not really a new thing for foreign countries to shower U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
officials with inappropriate gifts or try to, but this is different. For one thing, U.S. officials typically turn down inappropriate gifts. No sign of that here, we can see. But beyond that, the scale of this operation, some of what I've just talked about, there's even more, is something we have never seen before.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Now, the stated reason for his visit to Saudi Arabia and his palling around with the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, also known as MBS, and a man perhaps best known for personally approving the murder of an American journalist, was to get them to invest in American businesses.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Trump's money-making scheme has only become more brazen in his second term than it was in the first term. And on his first foreign trip abroad, he is clearly demonstrating that he and his family are very much open for business. The question is, what can be done about it? And by whom? Lucky for us, I have just the person to ask. Democratic Senator Adam Schiff has a lot of thoughts on this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
He just announced some actions in the last couple of hours, and he joins me in just 90 seconds. As promised, joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Senator, it's good to see you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Just in the last couple of hours, literally, I mean, this story just came out, you asked the inspector general at the Defense Department to investigate DOD's role in facilitating this outrageous gift. You're asking them a lot of interesting questions, information you want. Walk us through what you're requesting from them and what you hope that they will turn up through this process.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Trump claimed at the outset of his trip that he was going to get the Saudis to invest a whopping $1 trillion in the US, which is a lot of money. But it turns out his math was pretty far off, because MBS said his country plans to invest $600 billion in the US, well short of Trump's $1 trillion figure. Still a lot of money. Still a lot of money.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
He seems emboldened. I think it's safe to say not exactly an outrageous thing to say. I mean, he did some of this in his first term, certainly plenty of it. But I've been thinking about this Supreme Court ruling on immunity and how much it may have emboldened him. And I know you think about this a lot. You and I have talked about this a lot and what it could prompt.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Real purpose of Trump's Mideast trip comes into focus as his explanations fall apart under scrutiny
Do you think that that ruling has prompted him to be even more brazen in the second term?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
A White House official described the optics of a president hitting the links while the economy was in free fall as, quote, going to a birthday party after a friend has surgery. A little weird, but that is one way to put it, certainly. Then this morning, Donald Trump's message to the American people was telling them not to be weak, not to be stupid. We got this, America. Don't be wussies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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They just got their instructions from Professor Warren. Now, you told me you could stick around for one more because I want to talk about what's happening out in the country as well. We're going to talk about these unbelievable protests we saw all across the country when we have Senator Elizabeth Warren's going to stick around. We'll be back in 60 seconds or so.
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OK, by now, I hope you've seen the massive historic crowds that turned out across the country this weekend to protest Donald Trump in cities like Boston, New York, Los Angeles and D.C. All those places you can see them on the screen. The turnout was enormous. Some crowds even rivaling or surpassing the size of the Women's March in 2017.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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But what really stood out this time, at least to me, were the protests happening in parts of the country that are a bit redder. Take a look at Salt Lake City, Utah. That's thousands of people at the steps of the state capitol on April 5th. When you need a drone to capture a full crowd protesting a Republican president in Utah, that's a big deal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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In Columbus, Ohio, JD Vance's home state, hundreds came out in the pouring rain. In every major swing state, some of which, many of which Donald Trump won, North Carolina, Georgia, Maine, Arizona, fired up crowds turned out in big, big numbers. And it didn't stop there. Tulsa, Oklahoma, Billings, Montana, Sioux Falls, South Dakota. People showed up with a clear, urgent message.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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Hands off our country. Honestly, pick a state, any state, Google hands off, and you'll find that even the reddest corners of the reddest states turned out in force. And Senator Elizabeth Warren is back with me. So you were in Tennessee this weekend. I was. Which is not what most people would envision. What was it like there when you were visiting, and what do you think of these crowds?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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And it's not even just him. I mean, his fellow arsonists, whether they knew it or not, had a pretty clear message for the American people this weekend when they were out on Sunday talk shows. Let them eat cake. Here's Treasury Secretary Scott Besson.
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That's so interesting. It's horrible what's happening in public schools, but I'm happy to hear that people are so tuned in to that. Oh, they were ready. We were just talking, I think sometimes after an election where your party loses, people feel hopeless. They feel powerless. They shouldn't be hopeless. They are not powerless. But these are a reminder out there of the power of people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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And Republicans are watching them, right?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
So important. I mean, people, data. I know we love to nerd out on data. We do. People just telling here's the impact of Social Security being cut. Here's the impact of Medicaid being cut. My public school being cut. You just have to go out there and tell how it's impacting you personally.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
I love it. People tell your stories out there. We'll try to lift them up, both of us will. Senator Elizabeth Warren. And thank you so much for joining me. We covered quite a range of topics there. I really appreciate it. We have to sneak in a very quick break. But when we come back, we're going to talk about how the Trump Justice Department mobilized armed U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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marshals to intimidate a lawyer they fired before she testified. And that lawyer, Elizabeth Oyer, showed up anyway. Good for her. Congressman Jamie Raskin helped lead that shadow hearing on Capitol Hill today. And both of them are going to join me here in studio. We'll be right back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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Until March 7th, Liz Oyer was the head of the Justice Department's Office of the Pardon Attorney, a job she'd held since 2022. But when she refused to recommend that the actor and Trump supporter, that's an important part, Mel Gibson, have his gun rights restored, she was fired.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
And let's just back up for one second, because this all began at the end of February, when Liz Oyer was put on a group to restore gun rights to people convicted of crimes. Now, that's an unusual task for someone who typically handles clemency requests. But despite the kind of strange request, her office came up with an initial list of 95 names she considered worthy of consideration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
No one is looking at the day-to-day fluctuations of their savings account, says uber-rich Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. And honestly, he sounds a little bit like he was prepped by the same communications staffer, maybe he was, who's been advising his colleague, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
Then that list was passed over to the office of the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanch, who pared down the list to nine. They also asked Oyer to submit a draft memo recommending that those nine get their gun rights back, which she did. DOJ officials then sent the memo back to Oyer along with a new request. Quote, we would like you to add Mel Gibson to this memo.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
Attached to the request was a letter that Gibson's lawyer had sent to senior DOJ officials arguing for his gun rights to be restored. Now, Gibson lost those rights after pleading no contest to a 2011 misdemeanor charge for battering his ex-girlfriend. I don't think you need to spell out the concerns on restoring gun rights to a domestic abuser. They're kind of obvious.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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But Oyer said that a senior official in Blanchard's office told her that Gibson has a personal relationship with President Trump and that should be a sufficient basis for her to make a recommendation and that she would be wise to make the recommendation. Liz O'Reilly wouldn't do it. And so she was fired.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
On the day she was fired, she got a frantic message from a colleague who told her that there were two security officers waiting in her office to deliver termination papers and walk her out of the building. She was in a meeting at the time. She literally walked out of her office and the building with a grocery bag filled with her personal belongings.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
Since then, Liz Oyer has been vocal about her firing, so vocal that she agreed to be one of the witnesses at a shadow hearing on the Trump administration's attack on the rule of law, led by Congressman Jamie Raskin and Senator Adam Schiff, something the two Democratic lawmakers felt they needed to do as congressional Republicans refused to do virtually any oversight whatsoever.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
Well, Liz Hoyer's plan to appear at today's hearing appeared to frighten Trump's DOJ, I guess, and apparently frightened them so much that they tried to stop her from testifying. Before the hearing on Friday night, the Trump Justice Department dispatched two armed U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
marshals to Liz Hoyer's house to deliver a letter from the department warning her about not disclosing anything they claimed was protected by executive privilege. Now, according to a letter from one of Hoyer's attorneys, she was able to confirm she received the letter via email before the armed marshals arrived at her home.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
The letter goes on to say, quote, this highly unusual step of directing armed law enforcement officers to the home of a former Department of Justice employee who has engaged in no misconduct simply to deliver a letter is both unprecedented and completely inappropriate.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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And went on, you appear to be using the department's security resources to intimidate a former employee who is engaged in statutorily protected whistleblower conduct. Despite the Trump administration's warning, Liz Hoyer did appear at today's hearing, along with three other witnesses who were forced out of the Justice Department.
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And alongside her former DOJ colleague, she made it clear that she would not be intimidated and that Americans should be shocked by the Trump administration's flagrant attempt to politicize our justice system.
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Liz Oyer is standing by here in studio. Congressman Jamie Raskin, who organized today's hearing, is here as well. And both of them join me next in just a moment. The Trump Justice Department did not want a pardon attorney they fired testifying at a shadow hearing today held by Democrats. That's clear. They wanted to stop Liz Oyer so badly that armed U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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Marshals almost showed up at her house to deliver a letter warning her not to reveal information they claim is protected by executive privilege. But Liz Warrior showed up to testify anyways, and she had a lot to say.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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Joining us now is Liz Oyer. She served in the federal government for 13 years and as a U.S. pardon attorney since 2022 until her firing last month. Also with us is Congressman Jamie Raskin. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee and helped organize today's shadow hearing. Liz, there's so many things I want to ask you about.
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I think the power, the pardon power of presidents is something that people don't always understand because it's been there's been a process followed. So I want to get there. But I just start first with. The fact that this letter was sent, they intended to have two armed special deputy U.S. marshals. They were directed to serve the letter to your home between 9 and 10 p.m.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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on Friday night, which as I understand it, you had a teenage child, teenager, who was home by themselves. My kids are not that old, but as a mother, I feel a lot of rage on your behalf. But how, what went through your mind when you learned about that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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I find it incredibly upsetting and outrageous. You still testified today, even after that happened. I can't imagine how grateful you are for that. It's very courageous. There are a lot of other people. There are others who testified today. There are other people that you want to testify in the future.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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What can happen to prevent this type of intimidating activity by people in the Trump administration?
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There really is nothing like a couple of billionaires who are pretty out of touch really speaking to the fears of the American public, is there?
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Is there anything about it? I mean, is it a violate whistleblower protection? Is there anything that can be can be done to prevent it from happening again?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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But as Donald Trump plays golf and tweets through it and sends out guys like Scott Besson and Howard Letnick to pretend like they relate to working people living paycheck to paycheck, it's important for you to know that these guys are kind of on a bit of an island right now. I mean, for one thing, even their fellow billionaires are freaked, for good reason.
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One of the reasons, one of the many reasons it was so important for people to hear from you today is people don't, I don't know that everybody understands what a pardon attorney does. You're overseeing the office. It's not how it's supposed to work.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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I wanted to play that kind of what you said about these, the January 6th defendants, because that doesn't shock me, but it should be shocking that you were the person who should have gone through and approved this. And you learned about it, I think you said, on the news.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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And whenever there's madness around the American economy, in my view, there's no one more effective at explaining what the heck is happening and what can be done about it than Senator Warren. She's going to join me in just a few more minutes. The other thing I should tell you about is that Donald Trump is doing his very best to play it cool right now.
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What should people out there understand about how the pardon process is supposed to work and what the risks are about the way that it is currently working in the Trump administration?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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Bill Ackman, who was a big Trump backer in 2024, lashed out at the Trump administration on Twitter last night. He accused Howard Letnick of having a conflict of interest and wanting to profit off a tanking economy. He also said that these tariffs are sending us toward a self-induced economic nuclear winter.
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And the flip side of it is people who are— domestic violence abusers, people who are guilty of violent crimes, they would typically not be approved through the clemency process.
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We only have about 30 seconds left, but this is so important that you are doing this. What is next? What can people expect is next in terms of other shadow hearings?
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Lots of topics to talk about and hear about. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for being here and for having the courage to appear today too, Liz. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Jen. I've got one more thing to tell you about before I hand things over to Rachel. We're going to be back after a very quick break.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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Courage is also contagious. That's some good words to live by these days. You may have seen some of those remarks from former Vice President Kamala Harris late last week. You might not have seen that she posted excerpts of that speech in her very first post on Blue Sky today. So welcome to the Blue Sky party, Vice President Harris.
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And while we're on the topic, a quick reminder that you can follow my personal Blue Sky account at jensaki.msnbc.com. That QR code on the screen will send you right to my page. That's where we and just about everyone you want to hear from are posting these days. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show every Sunday at 12 p.m. and Monday at 8 p.m. on MSNBC.
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And don't forget to follow the show on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. For now, goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
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That from a guy who just a few months ago was saying the business community was giddy with excitement about the Donald Trump administration and that growth was about to explode. That one didn't really age so well, did it, Bill Ackman? Now, as for Larry Fink, who's the CEO of the world's largest money manager, BlackRock, he said today that his fellow CEOs believe we're already in a recession.
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And Mark Cuban, not exactly a Trump supporter, I know, but he's a legit billionaire and someone who calls it like he sees it. And he said that if the new tariffs stay in place for multiple years and are enforced in inflationary and Doge continues to cut and fire, we will be in a far worse situation than 2008. Worse than 2008 is very, very bad, to state perhaps the very obvious.
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And even the cable news channel that Donald Trump watches all day long is starting to come to terms with the reality of the situation, it seems.
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I mean, guys, when you've lost Maria Bartiromo, maybe you've got a bit of a problem. So pressure is building. Of course it is. Now, I'll concede that most Americans don't necessarily relate to everything Bill Ackman says or what Larry Fink says or what Maria Bartiromo thinks. But they might care about what they hear on their local news broadcasts.
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And what they all are talking about right now on local news broadcasts is the potential impact of these tariffs on small businesses.
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He wants you to believe, he wants all of us to believe that he has everything under control, even things that are very much out of control. His behavior kind of reminds me a bit of an arsonist who's pretending there is no fire when he's the guy who threw the match and lit the actual fire. I mean, his actions caused the market to plummet.
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Adding these tariffs on top of things and making it a little bit more expensive to buy, that's definitely not what we want.
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So each and every day this continues, it gets a little more real for everyone. You just heard from a lot of people that it's feeling very real for. Sure, they see the headlines about the stock market falling off a cliff. Those are very concerning.
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When things start to cost more, when people do check their 401ks, which I think a lot of people do, an already scary situation starts to get much scarier. And when things start to get more real for the American people, things start to get more real for the people they send to Washington. And that's really actually how it's supposed to work.
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Now, do Republicans in Congress all care about rising costs and retirement accounts of their constituents getting wiped out? It's my sincere hope that many of them do. But what they definitely care about is keeping their jobs. That I know for sure.
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And that is one of the reasons why a bill in the Senate to curb Donald Trump's power on tariffs now has seven, count them, seven, you can see them all on the screen, Republican co-sponsors. Now, this bill would require that new tariffs sunset after 60 days unless Congress passes a joint resolution approving them, which they probably wouldn't do.
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And seven Republicans are saying very loudly and clearly that that is a good idea. I should point out that two of the Republicans on that list, Tom Tillis and Susan Collins, are the two most vulnerable Republicans, or two of them, up for reelection in 2026. Again, hopefully they care about what's happening to the people they represent. That's why people send them to Congress.
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But they definitely care about keeping their jobs. And for Mike Johnson, a little note for you, Republicans in the House also care about getting their jobs, too. It's not just the Senate. And yet Mike Johnson was so afraid of pushing back on Trump over tariffs that he literally gave up the power to rein him in.
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Last month, at the height of the government shutdown fight, Johnson snuck in a vote where House Republicans basically gave away their ability to cancel the Trump tariffs. But now there are some Republicans in the House who want that power back. Of course they do. And some who at least want a little bit more clarity from the White House on what their actual plan is.
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During a House Republican conference call yesterday, Republican Congressman Daryl Issa asked if lawmakers could receive a detailed briefing from the White House about Trump's tariffs. Zip to say, hey, if you guys are going to tank the economy, can you at least tell us why? What's the plan here?
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Congressman French Hill, who is also the chairman of the House Foreign Relations Financial Relations Committee, said that the Trump administration has been great to work with on a whole host of issues. OK, but he's been frustrated when it comes to how the White House has operated on tariffs. You think?
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And one Republican in the House, Don Bacon, has said he will introduce a bill in the House that would limit Trump's ability to impose tariffs without the backing of Congress, just like the one in the Senate. So could this move forward? Could Republicans show a spine and vote with Democrats to stop the tariffs? Some of them are showing a bit of a spine.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
But I'm not holding my breath because they need many more votes than that. But the point is the pressure is building. And Trump is worried enough that he actually issued a formal veto threat today about a bill, by the way, that is not yet scheduled to be voted on and does not yet have the votes to pass.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
His actions have caused people to worry about their retirement savings and how much everything is going to cost. Of course they are. And he's doing everything possible to pretend like none of that is happening. Like there is no fire at all. I mean, the guy took a long weekend. Good for him, I guess. Spending time at two different resorts he owns in Florida.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
But he was scared enough about what's happening in Congress right now, about the pushback he's seeing and feeling out there, that he said he'll veto a bill if it ever gets to him. But again, if Mike Johnson has his way, no tariff bill will ever get to Donald Trump's desk. It has to pass the Senate and the House, of course.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
On that same conference call yesterday, Johnson said Republicans should hold the line and trust Donald Trump's instincts. Don't trust the markets. Don't trust the smartest economic minds in the country who aren't all partisan. Don't trust pissed off constituents, of which there are many. Just trust Donald Trump's instincts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
And then today, Mike Johnson basically repeated as much when he was being chased by reporters through the halls of the Capitol today. Now, what he was elected to do. If I remember correctly here, and forgive me because maybe my memory is a little foggy, I thought Donald Trump was elected to lower the cost of living for everyone, not raise the price of everything, and tank the American economy.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
But that seems to be what he is intending to do. And while he's on his little island over there with Howard Lutnick and Scott Besson and Mike Johnson, the cracks are showing and the pressure is building. It's building from the billionaire class, even, and from conservative media and Republicans in both chambers of Congress. And it's definitely building among the American people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
If those massive protests across the country on Saturday taught us anything, and we're going to talk about those in the show too, is that Americans are paying attention to what is happening in Washington right now and how it is impacting them. They're paying attention to what these guys are doing to our system of government and to our economy and to our way of life.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
And trust me, the American people are taking note of who's blindly trusting Donald Trump's instincts right now and who is based in reality. I think I know which category Senator Elizabeth Warren is in. She's standing by and she's going to join me in just 60 seconds. As promised, joining me now is Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. She's the ranking Democrat on the Senate Banking Committee.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
She also sits in the Senate Finance Committee. She knows how to talk about and explain these issues better than anyone I know. We're in Professor Warren's class right now, a little bit. So let me start there because I really, a lot of people are just digesting this around the country. And, you know, today Trump said that maybe some of the tariffs could be permanent.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
We don't know that to be the case, but just help us understand what the impact of that could be.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
He appeared at a Saudi-backed live golf tournament, and he played some golf of his own. He even posted a video of himself golfing on social media, as if to make absolutely certain we all knew where he was and what he was doing. There he is. That's the video. Nothing to be concerned about, everyone. I am so relaxed while the market tanks that I am playing golf and hanging with my Saudi buddies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
OK, the first thing I should tell you tonight is that Senator Elizabeth Warren is standing by here in the studio. She was one of the most powerful voices calling for accountability during the financial crisis. She has not been quiet since then.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
I was thinking of you and I was so grateful you were able to come on because one of the and I just read this, but Mark Cuban posted this today. He said, if the new tariffs stay in place for multiple years and are enforced and inflationary and Doge continues to cut and fire, which is also having an impact on the economy, we will be in a far worse situation than 2008.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
I mean, I think I first met you when you were one of the loudest and boldest voices during that period of time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
I get the same question that you probably get times a zillion, which is, well, what happens now? And in preparation for tonight, read all the things that Senator Warren has said, because I think it's so helpful to understand.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
So where things sit right now, and I did a little bit of this in my introduction here, is there are seven Republicans in the Senate who are supporting a bill here that could potentially put a stop. Trump has issued a veto threat. You need way more than seven votes. But you've also kind of said that, tell me if I'm correct here, that Congress already has the authority to stop him.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
This is Fine: Trump Golfs as Economy Burns
So what does that mean and what could happen in order to stop this?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Which is why you didn't include it, and this is why it could have been many people on that chain, which is part of the thing I think that should be explored. Let me play what Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth had to say.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I don't expect you're going to respond to every aspect of that. But nobody was texting war plans. Again, you have extensive reporting. Anybody can read it. What is your reaction to that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
It's not at all uncommon these days for nefarious actors to try to induce journalists to share information that could be used against them. That does happen. We're going to talk about that. But the story continues. Because then two days later, Goldberg got a notification that the Waltz account had added him to a group chat called the Houthi PC small group.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And you know about it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And there are receipts for it, which is always a danger of that. Jeffrey Goldberg, this reporting, you never know what you're going to wake up to in this day and age. We woke up to this today. Thank you so much for taking the time. Anybody can read this piece online on the Atlantic site. Thank you so much for joining me. And we have to take a 60 second break. It's a very quick one. Stick with us.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
We actually have Senator Adam Schiff is going to he's standing by to join me. Something tells me he's going to have some thoughts about this. He's the former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. So we'll look forward to talking about that in just a moment. Welcome back. As I previewed right before the break, I have a great guest joining me now to talk about this story.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Now PC in the national security world typically stands for principles committee, which is typically made up of literally the highest ranking national security officials in government. Just to give you kind of a sense of how high-ranking the people in the chat were, there was a user named M-A-R, as in Marco Antonio Rubio, the Secretary of State, and another user named J.D. Vance.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California, the former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Senator, it's great to see you. We had talked about having you come on the show long before. There's so many things to talk to you about. But this story is just I've been wondering all day what your reaction was when you read it. Did you read it five times like me?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
What was your reaction when you read this story in The Atlantic?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I feel like the fallout of this we're going to feel for some time now, including how our allies react, what happens now, what other information may have been discussed over signal chains. There's lots of questions I have. At a minimum, I mean, I know we're not operating in a normal world. It does feel like someone should be held accountable, should resign or be fired.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I know that's probably not going to happen. But you also were a prosecutor. Are there crimes? Could there be crimes that were committed here?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
There was also a Scott B. from Treasury. I think we know who that is. And a user named Pete Hegseth from the Pentagon. And yet, as Goldberg wrote, I had very strong doubts that this text group was real because I could not believe that the national security leadership of the United States would communicate on Signal about imminent war plans. I'd have a hard time believing that too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Senator Adam Schiff, I always love talking to you about so many things. You are the perfect guest to talk to about this. I really, really appreciate you taking the time tonight. And coming up, Elon Musk was front and center at another cabinet meeting today. There he is right there in his MAGA hat. And as his popularity continues to plummet, which it is, Democrats see a huge opening.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I'm going to explain when we come back. OK. Earlier today, Donald Trump, during all this craziness we've been talking about, did hold a meeting with his cabinet, which is a very normal thing for a president to do. Not as normal was the continued presence of Elon Musk. You can see him there, of course, the unelected billionaire who is very much not a member of the cabinet.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Not only was Musk there, he was also a huge topic of conversation.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Are these people under duress? What is happening? Now, Musk should really try to bottle up that praise and hold on tight because there is a growing concern about him right now, even among Republicans. NBC News is reporting that Trump allies are pressing the White House to dial back Elon Musk's media interviews because he won't stop attacking Social Security.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Just for a refresher, Musk has called Social Security the big one to eliminate, describing it as the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time. So, yeah, you can kind of see why Trump's allies might want him off the airwaves. People like Social Security. One Republican lawmaker put it like this. The more of these Musk interviews, the more discussion we'll have.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I think the entire 2026 campaign will be a referendum on Musk if the billionaire's poll numbers continue to drop. Adding, you will see ad after ad with the chainsaw. Probably, yeah. And Democrats are starting to take full advantage of the political liability that Elon Musk poses to this administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Because over the weekend, some of the party's most effective messengers delivered some very effective messages about what's happening right now. I mean, take a listen to Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And here's Congressman Greg Kazar.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Fire who? And here's Senator Raphael Warnock.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I think anybody who spent time around national security information and government and reporting on it would too. Because at this level, the discussion about this level of sensitive issues is only supposed to happen on a few different channels, a few different ways.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Look, right now, Elon Musk on popularity is a huge political gift to Democrats. It's an opportunity to motivate the base and break through with new voters, too. And luckily, Democratic leaders recognize this moment, and a lot of them are meeting it. One of those leaders is Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, and he joins me live after a quick break.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
So the Associated Press wrote this weekend about how Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker is trying to chart a path forward for Democrats right now. Great to hear, right? And he's doing that in part by holding events alongside people who have actually been directly impacted by what the Trump administration is doing. May more people keep start doing these things. The AP writes, quote, Governor J.B.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Pritzker sits at a table surrounded by University of Illinois researchers who will soon be out of work. Their lab set to lose its federal funding and close next month. One researcher saying she feels betrayed by the government turns to thank Pritzker. My husband sometimes shows me videos of you talking, she said. This was the first thing that gave me hope that someone is speaking out.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Somebody is defending us. Pretty powerful. And Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker joins me now. Governor, it's great to see you. You never you never hold back from a fight. You never hold back from conversations. One of the things I think I admire about you. You've done the statewide tour just referenced over the last couple of days about the effects of these cuts by Trump and Musk.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
There's so much to pick from. What what do people respond to the most? What are they concerned about the most?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Usually they happen in what's called a SCIF, which stands for Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facilities, hence SCIF, because it's much easier to say and remember. But that's basically where computers storing classified information can be accessed to where conversations about things like war plans and even topics that are a whole lot less sensitive should happen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Or he doesn't care. We don't know. I'll be less generous than you are. You know, one of the things I think that's powerful about doing these events you're doing and some others are doing, like town hall meetings, is you're showing up, right? You're having conversations with people. You're hearing their stories.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And one of the things we've heard a little bit is that as powerful as that is, there's some frustration out there about what's happening in Washington and what's Senate Democrats not fighting harder the way people perceive it with this funding bill, because there are significant cuts in this funding bill to Medicaid and other programs. Is that something you've heard?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And if you do, what do you say to people?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Skiffs are where the situation room is. And they're so sensitive and so secure that you can't even bring in your phone, your Apple Watch. They literally make you take it off. AirPods, any electronic device, you can't bring into a skiff. And most of these officials pretty much always have access to these facilities.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Before I let you go, so much happening every day. And I just have to ask you about the story we've been talking about throughout the show, which is this reporting by Jeffrey Goldberg about him being included on a signal chain with sensitive national security information, including war plans. What was your reaction to that story?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I think a lot of people would agree with you. Governor J.B. Pritzker, I love that you never hold back. It's great. Thank you so much for joining me. Look forward to talking again soon. We'll be right back. The only thing missing, everyone, from a town hall event in Ohio this weekend were the actual senators. They're pretty pivotal, right?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
About 1,400 people showed up to an event organized by the group Indivisible. But the chairs reserved for the Republican senators? Those were empty. In the meantime, one Ohio Democrat is stepping up. Today, former Senator Sherrod Brown launched a new nonprofit focused on amplifying the struggles of American workers and pressuring politicians to actually listen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And joining me now is former Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio. Senator Brown, it's great to see you. Let me just start. I want to ask you about your announcement today. It's great to see you. I want to ask you about your announcement today, which is exciting. I think people are happy to hear about that. I just want to start by asking you about...
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I mean, the vice president and high-level national security officials even have skiffs set up in their homes. And whenever they travel, on domestic trips, on international trips, they have skiffs set up there, too. A vice president could say to a staffer, I need to make a secure call. And the staffer can set that up, just to give you all a sense of this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
The two Republican senators who didn't show up to this town hall and there were empty chairs there. I mean, you know Ohio politics probably better than anyone. They're avoiding town halls. How do you think people are going to take that in Ohio?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I don't have to tell you. You've won many times. People don't vote on data. They vote on people and stories. Tell us about the Dignity of Work Institute and what you're going to do, because listening feels like something that was maybe a bit missing. What is it going to do? What's your mission?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
But instead of engaging over proper channels, these officials all chimed in about pending military strikes on a group chat. Of course, by this point, according to Goldberg, the discussion about these war plans as this chat continued was getting pretty specific and incredibly sensitive. And what came next was even more stunning, because at 1144 on Saturday morning,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Former Senator Sherrod Brown, I know people will love to hear your voice more out there now. Love to see what you're going to do next. We'll see. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show every Sunday at 12 p.m. and Monday at 8 p.m. on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. For now, goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Goldberg got a text from the user Pete Hegseth that started with an all-caps note, TEAM UPDATE. Now, here's how Goldberg described what he was seeing because I think it tells you a lot. He says in his piece, I will not quote from this update or from certain other subsequent texts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
The information consumed in them, if they had been read by an adversary of the United States, could conceivably have been used to harm American military and intelligence personnel, particularly in the broader Middle East, Central Command's area of responsibility.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
What I will say in this continuation of his reporting, in order to illustrate the shocking recklessness of this signal conversation, is that the Hegseth Post contained operational details of forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I just have to pause on this for a moment, because the level of sensitivity of that kind of information is typically not seen by many officials in the government, no matter what your level of security clearance is. And this was done, again, over a group chat.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And he knew, he knew that two hours before the world did. Because a bunch of senior Trump officials were texting with him without realizing it. Jeffrey Goldberg is standing by here in studio for his first cable news interview since dropping that complete bombshell of a piece earlier today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
So the point here is also that it was a matter of time, really, before Goldberg would know whether or not these messages were legit, because there was so much detail and so much about timing and operational details in these group chats. And he also wrote that it was possible Houthi targets would soon be bombed.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And sure enough, when the time came, Goldberg checked X, or Twitter, whatever you're calling it these days, searched Yemen, and explosions then were being heard across and out of the capital city.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And then one account after another started posting celebratory reactions and messages on this same group chat, including a fist, flag, and fire emoji from the account identified as Mike Waltz, otherwise known as the National Security Advisor to the President of the United States. And so finally, after everything he had just witnessed, Goldberg was pretty sure that this was the real thing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And we're going to talk to him more about this in a moment. And he wrote, the signal chat group I concluded was almost certainly real. Having come to this realization, one that seemed nearly impossible only hours before, I removed myself from the signal group.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
No one in the chat had seemed to notice that I was there, and I received no subsequent questions about why I left, or more to the point, who I was. And then this morning he sent emails to several people who were on the signal chat. People like Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense, Michael Waltz, the National Security Advisor, John Ratcliffe, the Director of the CIA, others.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And he asked them some pretty freaking valid questions. Like, is the Hootie PC small group a genuine signal threat? Did they know that I was included in this group? Was I on the off chance included on purpose? If not, who did they think I was? Did anyone realize who I was when I was at it or when I removed myself from the group?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Do senior Trump administration officials use Signal regularly for sensitive discussions? Do the officials believe that the use of such a channel could endanger American personnel? Some serious questions for a serious issue and breach here. And here's the statement he got back from the spokesperson for the National Security Council.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And I'll just say here, having been in these worlds, when you ask the principals, the cabinet members who were on this chat, the cabinet members for something about what they did, and you get a response from the spokesperson of the National Security Council, it's because the cabinet members don't want to answer the question. So I'll tell you that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
This appears to be an authentic message chain, and we are reviewing how an inadvertent number was added to the chain. The threat is a demonstration of the deep and thoughtful policy coordination between senior officials. The ongoing success of the Houthi operation demonstrates that there were no threats to troops or national security.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
There's really no way to do this story and kind of catch you, get you up to speed on it, do it justice, I should say, other than to just take you through it piece by piece. So that's what I'm going to do. I've read it about 10 times today. I've highlighted it. I've got lots of notes, all the things. We're going to go through all of it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
That, my friends, is what we call pure gaslighting from the Trump administration. Now, just as a reminder, this was a group chat that could have taken place, as Goldberg notes in his piece, on phones while these officials were wandering around in public. Remember, they were talking about the most sensitive national security information, some of what our government has.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And all the while, they were doing it with Jeffrey Goldberg right there on the chat. Quite a story, and I didn't even tell you all of it. And joining me now for his first cable news interview since finding himself in that group chat is Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic. Let me first say, I've known you a long time. You've been covering national security issues for a long time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
I don't know about that. that. You're not 100, but yes, for quite a long time. So I just tried to do justice to your story there, which, as I noted, I read many times. You can see my highlighting, my notes, my questions.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Well, you know, once and always, once and always. What did I miss and what did I get wrong?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Now, what Goldberg lays out here is so crazy, so dangerous, so irresponsible, you really have to hear it to believe it. The story starts like this. On Tuesday, March 11th, I received a connection request on Signal from a user identified as Michael Waltz, which, as you all know, is the name of Trump's national security advisor.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
We're trying to entrap you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
It is so stunning. I mean, I think anyone who's worked in the national security space in any way thought it reminds them of moments. It reminded me of a moment. I read the Russia memo. I was just telling you this on Russia's engagement, Russia's intervention in the election in 2016. The very last day I was in the Obama administration, I had to check it out. It was a numbered copy.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
It was a printed copy. I had to read it in a skiff. and give it back. And there's a seriousness with which most national security officials in government take these issues. Let me ask you, one of the things that struck me is that the information shield, you mentioned the specifics of the war plan's operational details.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
There was also, I mean, John Radcliffe, who has been in government before, who has had access to national security before, he was on this chain, director of the CIA. He shared reportedly, according to your reporting, the details of someone you didn't name because you know well enough not to share information like this, of somebody who sounded like a covert operative.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
OK, I'm going to start tonight with one of the most shocking headlines I have ever seen. Here it is. The Trump administration accidentally texted me its war plans. That was literally a headline in The Atlantic just this morning. And it was written by the magazine's editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg. Because last weekend, Jeffrey Goldberg knew that the U.S. would strike Houthi rebels in Yemen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Now, Goldberg writes, I did think it was somewhat unusual, given the Trump administration's contentious relationship with journalists and Trump's periodic fixation on me specifically. It immediately crossed my mind that someone could be masquerading as Waltz in order to somehow entrap me.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And you don't know who that, do you know who that is at this point?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
The thing about signal chats is you have to invite people. You have to list the names to create a group. So there was a consciousness adding of you to this group.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
In the in the there's been a lot of effort to respond. I mean, you you I noted as I just kind of gave the summary of the piece, you got a response from the National Security Council spokesperson. No, no.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Just ask them, punting it to them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
But every one of those individuals should have known that they shouldn't be having these conversations.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
And you said you haven't seen a breach like this. I mean, you just said that you've covered a lot of breaches.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
Let me, so they have, they've been punching you and others to the National Security Council spokesperson statement, which I want to talk about a second too. But in the last hour, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth reacted to your story after landing for a trip to Hawaii. He didn't initiate the chain, but he had a lot to say on the chain, it seems.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Mixed Signal: Top Trump Officials Responsible for Major Security Breach
He had the most sensitive things to say, including what the kind of war detail plans that you didn't even include in your reporting because you didn't want to put operational details in your reporting.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
You still talk to a number of people in the Pentagon. I mean, the thing about the Pentagon, State Department, other agencies in Washington like that is that people can serve in them for decades, right? There are people I know you still know who have worked for other secretaries of defense. I just outlined some of the people who were fired and quit.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
They were people Hegseth brought in for the most part. What do people you still talk to say about his leadership and how they're feeling about this moment?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
No question. I don't know if you heard me say that, but I said that when you see Bob Woodward on your phone calling, you get a little nervous if you're in the government because you are a very well sourced and knowledgeable reporter for many years. And I was wondering, I mean, I've been the signal gate or the signal chain scandal, whatever you want to call it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
It struck me because I spent so many years working for presidents and a secretary of state where you have to be so careful about your handling of classified information for a range of reasons, including that adversaries can get their hands on it. You can put operations at risk. You can put sources and methods at risk. We know about now two or more signal chats.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I suspect there are many more, given nobody objected on the signal chats. What do you think about this story? Do you think there's more underneath it that we should be concerned about?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
There were also the countless allegations of Hegseth drinking on the job, both at veterans organizations and at Fox News. The New Yorker reported he once got so drunk that he had to be restrained from getting on a stage at a Louisiana strip club. There were the allegations that he ran those relatively small veterans organizations into the ground financially.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I suspect that's why Pete Hegseth might be sticking around. We're going to see what other signal chats come about and any intel impacts, and then we're going to have you back and talk more about it. We'll see. But I know you said you could stick around. Can you still stick around for another block?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
That would be great. We have more we want to talk about. I want to ask you about something else Trump is doing right now that I think you have some concern about that you haven't talked as much about, but we're going to be right back after a quick break. Certainly. OK, Bob Woodward is still here at the table with me as promised.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And I want to mention just a few stories to start this off that may seem different, but I have a common thread running through them. There's the ongoing economic crisis that Donald Trump created single handedly because of his longtime obsession with tariffs. There is ongoing threats to fire the chair of the Federal Reserve, which continued today and sent markets falling off a cliff again.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
There's Trump's efforts alongside the world's richest man to fire federal workers and gut federal agencies at will. There's the ongoing assault on institutions like universities and law firms that Trump views as adversarial. There's the detaining and deportations of legal residents for exercising their right to free speech.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
The implementation of a centuries-old wartime law to detain and deport migrants without due process at all to a foreign prison. And of course, the repeated disregard of court orders, including rulings from the Supreme Court. I could literally go on, but we only have so much time. And like I said, all of these stories might seem very different. They're about different things.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
But the through line across all of them is a president who sees himself as all powerful, who sees himself as immune to accountability and above the rule of law. And that's important to talk about, too. Bob Woodward knows a thing or two about abuse of power by presidents. He's back with me now. Thank you. There's so many things. I mean, we just talked about national security.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Obviously, the economic story right now and understanding that and diving into the why, I think, is important. I know Trump has been obsessed for a long time with tariffs. You've reported that. You've talked about it. He is obsessed.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And of course, there were the allegations about his abuse of women, including his second wife. He denied all of it, of course, but yeah, it's safe to say there were some signs that maybe this guy wasn't exactly fit for the job of overseeing the Defense Department. And so when we saw this headline at the end of March, it was one of those things that was both shocking but kind of unsurprising.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
No question about it. I mean, in the first term, he kind of went to the brink. He did some of it. He was pulled back by some people internally. Clearly, he's not now. Obviously, this is getting a ton of coverage, as it should out there, so people can understand what's happening. But you have covered, you've followed Trump. You know his thinking.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
For people who think he's going to back off from pressure from the business community, from others... Do you think he's going to, or are you concerned he may not?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
his what his gut instinct is when you say him.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And the very first paragraph of Jeffrey Goldberg's story was, again, both shocking but entirely unsurprising in a lot of ways. I mean, here's what it said, quote, The world found out shortly before 2 p.m. Eastern time on March 15th that the United States was bombing Houthi targets across Yemen. I, however, knew two hours before the first bombs exploded that the attack might be coming.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
No question about it. Let me ask you, there's so many stories and we've covered a lot of them to cover right now and to pay attention to. You have decades of experience of knowing when there's more threads to pull from stories because there's more there that people should know.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
If you were given direction to all of the Bob Woodwards out there, investigative reporters, what do you wish people would spend more time, what do you think they should spend more time digging into from an investigative perspective?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Well, we'll all be looking forward to more of your reporting, more of the investigative reporting out there. Bob Woodward, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Coming up, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be right back. But we saw more massive protests all across the country this week, and we'll talk about that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
The reason I knew this is that Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense, had texted me the war plan at 1144 a.m. The plan included precise information about weapons, packages, targets, and timing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
There's clearly energy on the ground. The question is, how should Democrats use it? Everyone doesn't agree. DNC Vice Chair David Hawke has a few ideas that have been causing a bit of a stir. He doesn't seem to mind. We're going to talk about that. He joins me next. OK, we know Democrats don't control a lot of Washington right now. But one thing they do have across the country is a ton of momentum.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I can tell you that when you're working in government and Bob Woodward's number pops up on your phone, which has happened to me, your heart rate picks up a little bit, no matter what administration you're in. And he's going to be here at the table in just a few minutes.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I mean, over the weekend on on the 250th anniversary of the start of the American Revolution, thousands took the streets for what demonstrators called No King's Day. This comes just two weeks after the hands off protests on April 5th. So, no, this isn't just a one-off or a one-day thing. Clearly, there's energy. Clearly, there's urgency.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And the real question for Democrats right now, which I think is a very helpful, like, healthy one, is how are they going to channel it? Well, David Hogg, the 25-year-old vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, is thinking about things, I would say, just a little bit differently than they've been thought about in the past.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
His organization called Leaders We Deserve is planning to spend, they hope to spend, $20 million to oust some Democratic incumbents and to elect younger members in their place. He says they will focus heavily on House races and back primary challengers only in safe Democratic districts. We'll talk to him more about what he's thinking at this point.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Now, David predicted that this might anger a lot of people, his words, and he was kind of right. I mean, longtime Democratic strategist, he's been on this show a number of times, James Carville, said it was the most insane thing he's ever heard. And Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries also weighed in when he was asked over the weekend.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Well, a few hours after that story was published, Jeffrey Goldberg was here at this table, and we watched together as Pete Hegseth looked straight into the camera and lied about what Jeffrey Goldberg knew to be true.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
So clearly David Hogg has struck a bit of a nerve. Sometimes winning does require doing things differently, thinking about things differently, at least having a conversation about it. So that's what we're going to do. He is now vice chair of the DNC, and he joins me now. David, how are you? Good to see you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Let me just start by asking you, I mean, Speaker, he's not Speaker yet, let's hope. Leader Jeffries, he obviously has a big stake in winning the House. As do all of us. Becoming Speaker, everyone does, but he would become Speaker of the House, of course. He clearly has a different view of how this should be approached. He's talked about defending incumbents. You have a different take.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Help people understand why.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I agree with you. I used to have a mug that said, not a comms problem. Sometimes it's more substantive.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
So is there, because one of the things I know you're thinking about is just what are the criteria? You've said you're not going to go after Jan Schakowsky or Nancy Pelosi because you think they're effective members. I think those are your words. Is it over a certain age? Is it, how many districts is it? What are the specifics at this point?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
OK, I know I love about you that you never hold back and you say what you think. I'm wondering, because James Carville said this was a crazy idea or a bad idea. Yeah.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
A lot of people predicted that that what is true is a lot of people predicted that. Now, he is he is definitely not a young person. I don't think even he would say that he did help a governor. Most people had not heard of an unlikely path to the presidency. So I guess my question for you is why take the bait and attack him back?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I mean, one of the things that's been really inspiring is young people running for office. No question. Let me ask you, because you currently have a seat at the table as a vice chair, one of the five vice chairs of the DNC. This doesn't violate bylaws.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Yeah, it's something, though, that has angered traditional DNC members. Some of them. Some of them. Some of them. I don't want to overstate. But how do you think—I mean, do you—are you ready to put that at risk? I mean, if they said you can't do this, are you going to still—
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
So meaning if they tell you you can't do this, you're going to leave your vice chair job.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
David Hogg, thank you for being here. Thank you. When you know more, when you learn more, when you figure out candidates, I hope you'll come back and talk to me more about it. We're going to be right back. We're going to take a quick break. The news today that Pope Francis has died brought me back to the time he visited Washington, D.C., about 10 years ago in 2015.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I was working in the Obama administration at the time, and while visits by foreign dignitaries and heads of states were always important, of course, the visit by Pope Francis was an especially big deal. I mean, about 15,000 people, you can see the pictures there, crowded into the White House lawn to hear him speak.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
That's not to mention the thousands more who lined the streets just to catch a glimpse. And when it came time for his address to a joint session of Congress, here's what he said.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
In many ways, this message there was more of an aspiration than a reality even back then. I mean, even then, there was a lot of division in our politics. But I'm not saying that anyone delivering that same message today could get that kind of applause from both sides of the aisle. I don't think they could. It's now been almost 10 years since that visit.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I think it's fair to say our country has grown even more divided and our politics more polarized in that time. But Pope Francis's message stayed exactly the same. Yesterday on Easter Sunday, he gave his blessing to the crowds below.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
His final Easter message read in part, quote, On this day, I would like all of us to hope anew and to revive our trust in others, including those who are different than ourselves or who come from distant lands, bringing unfamiliar customs, ways of life, and ideas. For all of us are children of God.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
A lot has changed in our world, of course, and in our politics, definitely, since Pope Francis visited Washington in 2015. But Pope Francis never did. We'll be right back. OK, before we go, I just want to end with a little joy because my son Matthew turned seven this week. Hopefully he's not watching right now because he's sleeping. He better be sleeping or at least he's pretending he's sleeping.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
But for any parents or grandparents out there, I'm sure you relate to this. I mean, of all the jobs I've had, the best one is being a mom to my two kids. And of all the people I've prepped and briefed in my career, there have been many. No one asks harder questions than they do. Just to give you a little flavor.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
In the last few weeks, Matthew has asked me whether your bones go with you to heaven, why Americans can't travel to Iran. Yes, he's a child in Washington who hears the news. And one of the hardest ones, whether zombies exist. I have some answers to most. I try. I'm taking all your suggestions, parents, grandparents, non-parents, aunts. You can find me on Blue Sky at jensaki.msnbc.com.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Now, as you know, eventually Goldberg did release the screenshots of what Hegseth texted him, laying out in explicit detail the weaponry and sequencing involved with that attack. And even after those screenshots were released, after, Hegseth kept on lying.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Happy birthday, Matthew. I hope you're sleeping. Thanks for keeping me on my toes. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show every Sunday at 12 p.m. and Monday at 8 p.m. on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. For now, goodbye from Washington, and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I mean, I've watched that a lot of times. It's almost like the louder he talks, the more believable he thinks it will be, I guess. I don't know. But even though we knew he was lying, even though we knew he had texted war plans to a reporter or attack plans, whatever you want to call them, he kept his job. Trump defended him. Republicans in Congress didn't do a whole lot.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And despite the fact that there were obviously other signal chats with classified information on them, that story kind of faded into the background, in part because Donald Trump decided to tank the global economy. and also ship people to foreign prisons without any charges. My point is, there were a lot of pressing stories to cover.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
But first, I want to show you something he said the last time we spoke, because it was right after the election, just a few weeks after. And one of the things we talked about was the glaring incompetence of the people Donald Trump was picking for his cabinet. People like Pete Hexeth.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
But over the past few days, we started to get this sense that something else might be coming out of Pete Hegseth's Pentagon. Because on Friday, top officials of the Pentagon started getting fired. And they started getting fired for, wait for it, this is almost my favorite detail, leaking. And believe me, the irony is only going to get richer as we keep telling this story.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Three Pentagon officials close to Hegseth, his former senior advisor Dan Caldwell, former deputy chief of staff Jaron Selnick, and the deputy defense secretary's chief of staff Colin Carroll, confirmed they were placed on administrative leave. On Friday, we also learned that Joe Casper, Hegseth's own chief of staff, would be transferring to a different role in the Pentagon.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And John Elliott, another senior Pentagon official, also said he resigned last week, although the Pentagon said they asked him to resign. So lots of firings, a bunch of resignations, apparently about leaks. So yeah, it kind of felt like something was coming. Well, lo and behold, late yesterday afternoon, the New York Times dropped a bombshell report about another signal chat.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
The Times writes, quote, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth shared detailed information about forthcoming strikes in Yemen on March 15th in a private signal group chat that included his wife, brother, and personal lawyer.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Some of those people said that the information Hexa shared on the signal chat included the flight schedules for the F-A-18 Hornets targeting the Houthis in Yemen, essentially the same attack plans that he shared on a separate signal chat the same day that mistakenly included the editor of The Atlantic. Now,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Hegseth's brother Phil does work at the Pentagon, although he is not anywhere near a role that directly involves military operations, and for good reason. As the AP reports, based on Phil Hegseth's publicly available resume, his past experience includes founding his own podcast production company and working on social media and podcasts at the Hudson Institute.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
That said, Phil the podcaster might have some kind of security clearance. We really don't know. As for Hegseth's wife, well, she has already been kind of a point of contention. You see, Jennifer Hegseth does not actually work for the Department of Defense, and yet we know that she has been sitting in on sensitive meetings.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
As the Wall Street Journal reported just last month, quote, one of the meetings, a high-level discussion, took place at a sensitive moment for the transatlantic alliance, one day after the U.S. said it had cut off military intelligence sharing with Ukraine. The group discussed the U.S. rationale behind that decision.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
The Pentagon has been asked in the past about whether Jennifer, a former Fox News producer, has a security clearance. I don't know why she would, but who knows? They have declined to answer the question, which is quite telling on its own. But here's the thing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Even if both Jennifer, the wife, and Phil, the podcaster, do have security clearances, there's no reason for the defense secretary to be texting them attack plans and details about a military operation. Because typically, the people who have access to this type of information are categorized as need to know. And if you're in the need to know group,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
It means it's essential that you have the details of the operation or classified information in order to do your jobs, meaning just because you have a certain level of security clearance, it doesn't mean you have access to every piece of information that is in that level of security clearance. It's if you really need to know it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Generally, a group does not include a liaison officer like Phil Hegseth, and it certainly does not include the secretary's spouse. So that story broke yesterday, and then Secretary Hegseth's day got, I would say, even worse.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
As I mentioned just a moment ago, his former aide, a guy by the name of John Elliott, one of the staffers who quit, published an op-ed in Politico describing his month from hell, as he describes it, working for Hegseth.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Elliott writes that, quote, it's hard to see Hegseth remaining in his role for much longer, adding, quote, the last month has been a full-blown meltdown at the Pentagon, and it's becoming a real problem for the administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Elodie also hinted at the Secretary's week getting even worse, saying, quote, and this is quite a thing to write in an op-ed, there are very likely more shoes to drop in short order, with even bigger bombshell stories coming this week. Key Pentagon reporters have been telling sources privately. Who knows what will come? We'll see. But a former senior aide is predicting that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Now, just for some context, John Elliott is not at all some sort of undercover resistance crusader. He's the former Pentagon spokesperson best known for a statement to ESPN defending the Pentagon's decision to wipe references to baseball legend Jackie Robinson's military service by saying, quote, DEI is dead at the Defense Department. It's that guy.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
He's also the one who took the lead in kicking a number of prominent media outlets like The New York Times, The Washington Post, and CNN out of their Pentagon workspaces. I mean, he's a dyed-in-the-wool MAGA guy. He probably still has his hat in his closet. Maybe he's wearing it on the weekend. I don't know. He's been with Donald Trump since the 2016 campaign.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And he actually spends much of that op-ed, I quoted, lavishing praise on Trump's warped view of national security. But he draws the line at Pete Hegseth. And now at least one Republican, one Republican congressman seems to share his view, saying out loud for the first time that Hegseth must go. And yet...
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
All day long, the White House did what it always does, right before Donald Trump unceremoniously fires someone on social media. You see, there's like a pattern here. They close ranks around the guy. The press secretary even took the time to deny a report that Hegseth was about to be fired. And they all just, of course, blame the media for reporting on what people inside the Pentagon told them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
The trumpet in that first few parts is quite something in the background. But that aside, I mean, the Pentagon is working against Pete Hegseth, like the entire Pentagon as an institution. Did the entire Pentagon as an institution type a signal text chain on the Secretary of Defense's personal phone that included detailed military operations and then force him to include his wife and brother?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Because that would be quite a story. That would be a huge story. Of course, that's not what happened. And these are the same non-denial denials that Trump World always churns out. When they know that a reporter has caught them red-handed, doing something they're not supposed to do. It's how they were kind of used to this by now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Seems like every day this administration is scrambling to clean up one mess or another mess. Because when it comes to staffing the government, Donald Trump isn't sending his best. As I said at the top of the show, Bob Woodward is standing by. And once upon a time, there was a movie many of you probably saw made about his dealings with perhaps the most famous leaker in American history.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
And just listen to the way history rhymes in this scene from All the President's Men.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
The real Bob Woodward is standing by and he joins me in just 60 seconds. As promised, joining me now is legendary journalist and associate managing editor of The Washington Post, Bob Woodward. Bob, it's great to see you. That movie is so good. So it was just a reminder of what a moment in history that was. But I was so excited to talk to you for a million reasons.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
I've read all your books, but also you've covered 16 secretaries of defense. I think I got that right. I know I said that earlier. Yes. And I know we talked about Secretary Hegseth. He wasn't the secretary then when we when we last spoke in November. And there's so much that's happened since then. You know so well about the functioning of the Pentagon and what impacts things.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Is there anything that surprised you and what concerns you the most about what you've seen in terms of his leadership?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
OK, the first thing I should tell you tonight is that Bob Woodward is here. Yes, that Bob Woodward, all the president's men, Bob Woodward, the reporter who toppled the president, Bob Woodward.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Sixteen secretaries of defense. I see none of that, is what he said. And yet it didn't take an investigative mind like Bob Woodward's to know that Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense might be slightly problematic. I mean, before running the U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
It's one of those questions I always think about is why does he keep him around? I mean, there's things like, well, he has to get another secretary of defense confirmed. That's not always that easy, but he does have a big majority in the Senate. He now, though, has made some big public mistakes there. Trump has a pattern sometimes of wanting to control people. Is that part of it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
Or why do you think he keeps? Well, I do.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Oops! He Did It Again: Secretary Hegseth on the Defensive over Second Signal Chat
military, he was a weekend morning show host on Fox News with a reputation for going years without washing his hands, which, by the way, is his admission, just to make it even weirder. And no shade to cable news hosts, obviously, even ones who get a little crazy on New Year's Eve, you can see there. It's not a job that exactly prepares you to run the Pentagon as your next step.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
No hearing, no due process, just the Trump administration's gut, it seems. And today, some administration officials made clear what they thought of the judge who tried to stop them from doing this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
But to Trump, it was too woke and needed to be straightened out. So yes, to own the libs, Trump is basically destroying the Kennedy Center. People are refusing to perform there anymore. And he basically said so himself today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I don't care what the judges think. Well, in a hearing this evening, the judge presiding over this case made clear he could see what was happening as well. The judge summarized the administration's position on his court order as, quote, we don't care, we'll do what we want. Joining me now is NBC News justice reporter Ryan Riley, who was in the courtroom for that hearing tonight.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Thank you so much for coming over from the courthouse. Let me just start. I know a lot of people watching are paying attention to this, but for people who weren't, who are watching, how did we get to the point where there needed to be a hearing tonight?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And has a high-level security clearance.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, clearly there's defiance. It seemed like they also, but you were there, so tell me, it seemed like they also made this argument that they actually did comply with the order, which seems, if you're listening to all these details, you're thinking, how is that even possible that they made that argument? I mean, they didn't return the planes. They detained more people after that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
How did they make the argument? And what did the judge, how did the judge respond?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
So I started off by talking about this. I mean, they're detaining people who are suspected to be members of a gang. No due process, anything along those lines. It sounds like they have to answer questions by tomorrow and then there's another hearing Friday. Is that right? And but to me, it seems like the judge summarized what he thought the Trump administration was doing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
What can the judge possibly do here? I mean, what do they have in their toolbox of things to compel them to follow the law?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Ryan Riley, I know you have a very busy beat right now covering all of this. Thank you so much for taking the time. I hope you'll come back and kind of give us updates on this as we learn more. I really appreciate it. And coming up, Republicans duck town halls. I was just talking with this earlier in the show and Democrats rush in to fill the void.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Senator Ruben Gallego got it on, got in on the action today, and he joins me to talk about it after a very quick break. OK, so there are lots of different ways to tell Republicans and Democrats apart right now. But lately, one of the clearest ways is their attitude toward the people they represent.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, it's all the same mentality and thinking. The Kennedy Center, the culture wars, actual policy of any sort, it's all the same thinking to Trump. And it's exactly the same thinking when it comes to the way he and Elon Musk are gutting the federal government.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
The headlines from local papers in Republican districts show their members ducking town halls left and right. And last night, Congresswoman Virginia Fox of North Carolina gave us a sense about how she feels about them and the voters who show up. I don't do town halls because I think it's just an opportunity for people to yell at their member of Congress.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Well, Congresswoman, let me let you in on a little secret. The policies and the people you support may actually be the reason they are yelling. Maybe you can control that. You can control what you do, what your constituents think about what you do. But Democrats seem to get why. And they're actually trying to listen to voters, even in Republican districts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin and Ro Khanna of California are hosting town halls in or close to the nearby districts with Republican members. The Florida Democratic Party has begun hosting their own town halls in districts held by Republicans. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz was in Iowa and Nebraska over the weekend where he spoke to big crowds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And Senator Bernie Sanders has been holding events around the country. After a swing through the upper Midwest earlier this month, Bernie will head to Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado this week. And this time, he's going to have some company. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will be joining him on the road. So yeah, increasingly, Democrats seem more than happy to fill this void.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Republicans are leaving pretty wide open out there. Just today, Arizona's Democratic Senators Mark Kelly and Ruben Gallego were meeting voters at a town hall in Phoenix, where they tore into Donald Trump and Elon Musk for cuts to Medicaid and other health services for vulnerable Americans.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And joining me now is Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona. Senator Gallego, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for joining me after the town hall today. So you had that tunnel meeting. We showed a little bit of it early. Great to have you. We showed just a little bit of your town hall. How did it go today? Who showed up? How many people were there? What did they want to talk about?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, take NOAA, which is the agency responsible for things like forecasting our weather and tracking climate trends and responding to extreme weather events. Most people accurately see it as an apolitical tool for knowing what the weather is going to be outside, which, hey, we all rely on. A place where a bunch of science nerds prepare for natural disasters.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
You were making your first run for office in Arizona during the Tea Party wave of 2010. You were in Congress during the backlash after Trump's first election. You've been through a lot, I think it's safe to say. I've seen it all. You've seen it all. I mean, there were Trump-Gaygo voters. You've seen it all. How does the energy you're seeing out there at town halls in recent weeks compare for you?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, both in Arizona and what you're seeing kind of around the country.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
That's what happens in that building. But Project 2025 labeled it as, quote, one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry. Think about how absurd that statement is. This is an agency made up of scientists, scientists who are literally measuring and predicting weather patterns, some of which are caused by, yes, the climate crisis. And they're destroying that agency. That's the goal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I was Senator, former Senator Tester, I was talking with earlier on the show, and he made a similar point, which I don't think people understand about the impacts on rural community, unless you're living in a rural community, of course, about the impacts of kind of the shutting down of offices or the cutting of aid and assistance and personnel, because it means it's harder for people to reach and get access to it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
So that's a really interesting point. And those statistics are are pretty startling. Let me ask you about something here in Washington. I have my own thoughts about this. I'm going to talk about coming up. But but you join most Senate Democrats in breaking with leader Chuck Schumer on the vote to allow Trump's budget to advance to an easy approval. I mean, you were a hard no.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I think it's safe to say on that. What do you think? Looking back on that episode, what does it tell you about the strategy of Democratic leadership right now? And what concerns do you have about it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
You just ran for Senate. I mean, you are in touch with the people in Arizona. Are you are you? I mean, you just lived it. Do you remain confident in Senator Schumer remaining the Democratic leader in the Senate?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Senator Ruben Gago, thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate it. Coming up, as I mentioned, I have a few thoughts of my own about Senator Chuck Schumer and Democratic leadership in Washington. I'm not going to hold back and we'll be right back. On a Sunday morning back in 2019, Chuck Schumer held a press conference on a, what may not sound like a very pressing issue, research into honeybees.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
That's front and center for the Trump team. That's what they're trying to do. Now, over the past few weeks, the Trump administration has slashed hundreds of NOAA staff, including people responsible for producing critical weather forecasts and maintaining radar systems, and they're not done. The agency is tasked with cutting an additional 1,000 jobs, which means 10% of its workforce.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I love the Save the Bee T-shirt. I would like one of those. But here's my point. It may seem like a little thing, the bee issue, but as a senator for the past quarter century, Schumer's been all about effectively magnifying the little things, holding press conferences to stop robocalls to seniors or to deregulate canned wine.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
There was also the time he warned of the dangers of tasty-looking tide detergent pods. A full six years, by the way, before teens launched a viral challenge to eat the tasty little tide pods. My point is this. Schumer was an absolute master at drawing attention to issues big and small. All the time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
He was known as the man who invented the Sunday presser, showing how to dominate the Monday headlines. The joke in Washington was the most dangerous place here was between him and a camera. He always knew how to get things done in Washington, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, in 26 years as a senator, including nine years as the Democratic leader, he helped pass and protect Obamacare, as well as background checks on gun sales. He shepherded all of Joe Biden's major bills through the Senate, and he raised tens of millions of dollars for Democratic candidates, many of whom he recruited as majority leader.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
But when the once notoriously aggressive senator who invented the Sunday presser was asked by the New York Times this weekend about whether Democrats' media strategy was inauthentic and outdated, part of his answer kind of told you everything you needed to know. Here's what he said, quote, this is part of it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
We had like 60 influencers at the State of the Union and they went on all the social media, all the social media, according to the people who tell me because I get all these reports. It had millions and millions of views. Now, Repeatedly saying the social media, of course, is its own dead giveaway.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I get all these reports about information that is readily available to literally anyone who has ever posted on any of these platforms. That's the other one. Not exactly authentic or modern. And when Schumer was asked why he was the right person to lead the Democrats right now, his answer was basically that he'd done it before. Here's the thing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Michael Jordan was also the best basketball player of all time. But would he be starting for the Bulls this week? I think we know the answer to that one. Look, experience is a good thing. It's important. But seniority and keeping people in charge simply because they have done it before should not be the only thing. In fact, doing things the way they have always been done is not working.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Case in point, Schumer backed down from a government shutdown threat and helped Republicans pass their funding bill last week. His argument was that a shutdown would make it harder to resist Trump's takeover of the government. They're taking over the government. They're running the government. They're dismantling the government despite this. And in the process, he also gave up all their leverage.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And Republican leaders, including Trump, didn't have to pay any price. I mean, Trump even thanked Schumer for doing the right thing. He thanked him. Literally, that was his quote, for doing the right thing. Chuck Schumer was a hell of a majority leader in his prime.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
See, to Donald Trump and his buddy Elon Musk, NOAA is just another woke agency that stirs up climate hysteria. And so it's one of the agencies that has found itself in their crosshairs. But here's the thing. When devastating tornadoes swept across the country this week, it actually wasn't coastal Democrats in their path at all.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I grew up in politics when he was majority leader, when he was the aggressive senator, when he was the aggressive member of Congress who was dominating media coverage, arm-twisting Republicans and members of his own party, and raising an absolute boatload of money for Democrats. But he is not in his prime. The Republican Party is not the party of McCain or Romney or even George W. Bush.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Schumer's own party is so mad at him that he had to cancel his own book tour over the backlash. And the social media, not the Sunday press conference, is actually how the majority of people communicate and consume news these days. So where does that leave the Democrats these days?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Well, it feels to me like instead of just making tweaks to the margins of the message, which by the way is important too, maybe it's time to spend more time throwing out the hard copy of the old playbook and start thinking about new messengers. And to that point, you'll want to stick around and hear from our next guest. We'll be right back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Today, Harris County Attorney Christian Menefee announced he's running for the 18th congressional seat in Houston held by the late Sylvester Turner. Watch this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
We love people who stand up to bullies. Joining me now for his first national interview since announcing his candidacy for Congress is Christian Menefee. Well, you've had quite a day. Thank you for joining me. So let me start by asking you this. I mean, you've gone, you said it in your ad, and I know your history well.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
You've gone head to head with the governor of Texas and Trump in court many times, and you've won some of those times. There's obviously a frustration with Democrats in Washington right now. You'd be coming kind of from the outside. What would you do differently if you're elected?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
It was states like Mississippi and Arkansas and Alabama and Missouri, states that would definitely not self-identify as woke in any way and states that would definitely benefit from a fully operational and fully staffed and fully funded NOAA. What about FEMA, which provides essential tools for cleaning up and rebuilding after devastating storms, like the ones we also saw last week and this week?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
A lot of Democrats, you know, I think they're trying to figure out how to fight in the right way. Your fellow Houston Democrat, Congressman Al Green, was censured by House Republicans and actually 10 House Democrats after his protest during Trump's joint address. How did you feel about Congressman Green's approach to the joint session? And what would be your strategy be in a moment like that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Governor Abbott has yet to schedule the election date in your race, I believe. Are you worried at all that he might delay the election to help Republicans keep their slim House majority?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I think you're definitely right that people are looking for fighters and people who stand up to bullies. And you certainly have had that experience in Texas. Christian Menefee, thank you so much for taking the time. I know it's been, again, a huge day for you. Running for Congress isn't easy either. I think people should know. So thanks for taking the time to join me tonight.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And we'll be right back. Okay, I've got a very quick request before we go, and I promise it's not a big one. It's a small one. We'd love it if you would give us a follow over on Blue Sky. I might not love it quite as much as Rachel, but I do love it. You can follow me there. There's our show account. You can follow me at jensaki.msnbc.com, my personal account.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And you can scan the QR code, which will send you right to our page. It's where we're posting most of our content these days. The water is warm, everyone, mostly because Elon Musk doesn't own it. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show every Sunday at 12 p.m. and Monday at 8 p.m. on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
For now, goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Trump and Elon Musk claim the agency is a political tool wielded by Democrats during disasters. I don't even know what they mean by that exactly. So guess what they've done? They've cut jobs there, too. And Trump has even mused about shutting it down altogether. That's how they're owning the libs, I guess, right? I mean, that's their approach.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
But guess which states get the most recovery funding from FEMA and the Department of Housing and Urban Development? Well, states like Louisiana and Florida and Texas. Not exactly target Democratic states, those ones typically. Notice the theme here? See, the things they've already done and things they're planning to do actually hurt red states more than blue states.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I have my own thoughts I'm going to share with you, too. There are also some good things happening out there, no doubt. I mean, we're going to talk about those, too. Democrats like Tim Walz held town hall meetings in red districts over the weekend. That's great. Senator Ruben Gallego held a town hall in Phoenix, Arizona, today. He's going to join me later tonight to talk about how that went.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
They're trying to own the libs, but they're actually hurting Trump voters. The people they are hurting the most are in the very states that voted to put Trump in the White House. And we're seeing this everywhere, all the time. It's happening every day. They're hurting red states by working to repeal the Inflation Reduction Act, even though 80% of the investments are in Republican districts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
They'll continue to hurt people who voted for them if they go after Social Security, which one in five Americans across every single state rely on. and they'll hurt lots of proud MAGA members if they go after Medicaid.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
In one Appalachian County in Kentucky, almost 90% of the residents in Harlan County, that's where I'm talking about, voted for Trump, and almost half of them, half of them, received Medicaid. One woman relying on a Medicaid-funded treatment program for addiction told the Washington Post, if it were to go away today, I would be homeless tomorrow.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I would lose everything, all my counseling, all my treatment. If Trump takes the things that they're saying, it's going to be devastation for eastern Kentucky for sure. And you don't have to just take her word or my word for that matter for it. Here's Steve Bannon.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, the music in the background there is really quite something. But the point is, that guy is not exactly known for his empathy. He's not really a super empathetic guy. But he understands the political reality of Medicaid and other issues, too. Trump is also hurting red states with his beloved tariffs. He loves those tariffs.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
According to New York Times analysis, nearly 8 million Americans work in industries targeted by tariffs, and the majority are Trump voters. The jobs that could be hit by retaliation are especially concentrated in pockets of the upper Midwest, South and Southeast, including many rural parts of the county that are responsible for producing agricultural goods.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And again, don't take my word for it or their word for it. Here's Mike Pence.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
There you heard it from noted liberal crusader, as he's well known, Mike Pence. See, what's becoming increasingly clear is that in this broad effort to own the libs, Donald Trump is actually owning his own voters. And you wonder why Republicans don't want to hold town meetings out there. Joining me now are two people who know a whole lot about life in red states. Jon Tester is a former U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
We're also going to talk about the hearing tonight over deportations that just wrapped up. Ryan Riley was in the courtroom. He's hustling over here to the studio, and he's going to tell us about everything that happened in that room and what the judge had to say. But I wanted to start tonight with what I kind of think is one of the unifying principles of this administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Senator from Montana, and Mitch Lander is the former mayor of New Orleans. I am so delighted you both could make it this evening and so excited to talk to you. Senator, let me start with you. I mean, you represented Montana for years. One of the things I always admired about you is you were so much more Montana than you ever were Washington. You were so in touch with your voters.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
But I kind of went through there with some of the ways that these policies are impacting people or could impact people across the country. Let me start by asking you, what did I miss there in terms of how these policies could impact people in your state?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I want to ask you about that. I want to just ask Mitch first before I come back to you on that. And a bunch of crap. We need T-shirts that say that. So I'll just say that. Mitch, let me let me ask you, because I just I think it's so important. We're really trying on the show to help people understand the impact of these policies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
You get so we get so mired in kind of government bureaucratic speak in Washington. Let me ask you about NOAA and FEMA. I mean, these are two agencies in the administration's crosshairs, two things that do a whole lot to help a lot of people, red states and blue states. You know how much they help people. What do you think about that, especially given the storms we've seen over the past few days?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
And that is basically their myopic view on owning the libs, as they call it. They love to own the libs. To the extent that they have one goal, owning the libs seems to be that goal. And by that, they mean doing anything they can to offend, humiliate, or destroy things that anyone left of Sean Hannity may possibly care about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
So, Senator, let me come back to you and just pull a thread on something you said a moment ago, which is just about Democrats getting kind of the message in order. Democrats are in the minority here in the Senate and the House. There are things you can share with us what you think they should do legislatively. You always have perspective from being at home sometimes.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
But what should the message sound like? We talk to people in Montana all the time. You know what people want to hear. What should it sound like that maybe you're not hearing from people in Washington right now?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
It's so true. I mean, those town halls, I think watching them have been really inspiring. I think it feels like a good thing happening out there. Democrats showing up in red districts or their own districts. A lot of Republicans are not doing these town halls. Mitch, you know a lot about a lot of things, but you have a very good feel for politics and when things are sticking or not sticking.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
We're seeing some outrage at town halls. When do you think all of the things we've been talking about are going to catch up with them?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I mean, Donald Trump visited the Kennedy Center for a board meeting today after seizing control of it and making himself the new chair. What a good use of time for a president. The Kennedy Center now, I think all of you probably know what it is, but it's been an arts institution here in Washington, D.C. for over 50 years. Lots of people perform there. All sorts. They're not political.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
OK, I was out last week. I stored up a lot of thoughts about all sorts of things. I did watch the whole government funding debacle from afar. It feels to me like it's about time for a really honest conversation about Democratic leadership in Washington right now and what the heck is going on there. So we're definitely going to have that conversation tonight.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
I love that. First of all, I would go to a Senator Tester Mitch Landrieu town hall if you're going. I'd like to join you. Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it. Love talking to you both.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Coming up, the Trump administration blatantly defies a court order over deportations. And during a hearing earlier tonight, a judge had some very choice words about that. NBC's Ryan Reilly was in the courtroom during that hearing. He ran over here. Not too fast. He joins me here on the set in just 60 seconds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
So over the weekend, and you probably paid attention to this, but for only the fourth time in U.S. history, Donald Trump invoked the wartime Alien Enemies Act of 1798. The Trump administration is trying to use this 18th century law in order to accelerate its mass deportation project.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Now, the Trump administration's claim is that a notorious Venezuelan gang is perpetrating an invasion against the United States. And they say that Venezuelan migrants in the U.S. who are members of that gang, or more alarmingly, people who are even suspected by their account of being members of that gang, can be immediately apprehended and deported without any due process.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
So much for loyalty: Red states ‘devastated’ by Trump cuts
Now, just hours after Trump's proclamation, a federal judge issued a temporary restraining order barring the administration from deporting individuals based on this claim. He also ordered that deportation flights that had already taken off be returned. They needed to come back. The Trump White House then defied that order and deported hundreds more people suspected of being gang members.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's Selective Hearing: The Impact and the Outrage
What is your message to Americans who want to retire right now and who've just seen their lifetime savings drop significantly?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
How does he do that legally?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
The tone you have here is similar to what we're hearing from Senator Cory Booker. We started the show by showing a clip of him on the floor. He said he's going to be there as long as he can. He's young. I've run with him. He's healthy. We'll see how long he can do it. But I want to play a clip of that and talk a little bit about that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I think this is powerful because I think a lot of Democrats are trying to figure out what to do right now. Right. You're in the minority in the House and the Senate. And he's you're hearing an urgency from him. You're hearing an urgency from you. Do you think that's the kind of newer tactics people should look for?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
But let's not forget, I mean, it is really, really hard to get three quarters of the country to agree on basically anything. But the American people seem to agree that this is a really big problem.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
It's a really powerful message. People say they want people more in Washington to do more. This is also empowering people watching to say we need everybody needs your voices out there to watch. So we'll be continuing to watch Senator Booker. Thank you so much. Thank you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Coming up, we've got brand new reporting about even more signal chats created and hosted by Trump's national security adviser. No surprise there. We knew there were more. Congressman Jason Crow is a member of the House Intelligence Committee, and he joins me next. Okay, so when news of the Signal scandal first broke last week, it seemed very likely this wasn't the first group chat of its kind.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And for anyone who thinks this is some Beltway, Washington, inside baseball scandal, whatever you want to call it, I want you to watch what happens at a town hall in the deep red Indiana district of Congresswoman Victoria Sparks over the weekend.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I mean, everyone just seemed a little too cozy with their comments and all their emojis. Like, maybe they'd done this before. They'd thrown out those emojis before. I certainly had my suspicions, but so did many members of Congress.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
It turns out all these people who've worked on national security issues for years were onto something they knew. I mentioned this new reporting earlier, but it bears repeating. I mean, this is from the Wall Street Journal. Quote, two U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
officials said that National Security Advisor Mike Waltz has created and hosted multiple other sensitive national security conversations on Signal with Cabinet members, including separate threads on how to broker peace between Russia and Ukraine, as well as military operations. They declined to address if any classified information was posted in those chats.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Of course, they declined to address that. I mean, that is one of those things that is shocking a little bit, but also not really surprising. The Wall Street Journal is also reporting that even though Trump has decided not to firewalls for now, the damage done to his reputation has put him on shaky ground in the White House, and he has lost sway with the president. Go figure.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I mean, he's lost weight because he had Jeffrey Goldberg in his phone, though I think that's the deal. Anyway, I think it's safe to say that this latest reporting about multiple other sensitive national security chats is only going to make that ground a whole lot shakier. That's my bet. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
He's a former Army Ranger who served three tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's also a member of the House Intelligence Committee. So I just want to start there. I suspect you're one of those people who thought maybe there's going to be other chats. out there, because, of course, that wasn't the only one.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
The one they referenced and that The Wall Street Journal reported on today included conversations about Russia and Ukraine, as well as military operations, which is not specific. But you, you're a veteran. You've served in Iraq and Afghanistan. How concerned are you about what else could be out there? And what should people understand about the sensitivity of that type of information?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I think this is such an important piece for people to understand because the risks, say, with the operation in Yemen was that the Houthis could have known in advance. They didn't, but they could have known in advance. The military, members of the military who operationalized that could have been at risk. When it relates to Russia and Ukraine, who knows what that means.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
But if there were chats about Ukraine military equipment or operations or locations, all of this puts the people who are participating in it at risk? Is there more people should understand about that as somebody who's done these missions?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
These are much smaller things, but he hired his younger brother to serve as a key liaison to the Department of Homeland Security. He brought his wife to sensitive meetings. What are you hearing from members of the military or others who are, he is leading the department and some of their lives are in his hands, essentially?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
The complete disregard for the military is just a part of the story of this administration, unfortunately. I also want to ask you about Elon Musk, because you've been busy. You introduced new legislation today called the End Dark Money Act, aimed at fighting corruption and cracking down on dark money, influencing U.S. elections.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I mean, Elon Musk is trying to buy a state Supreme Court race in Wisconsin, where the election is tomorrow. What will this do in practice to help prevent him?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I bet a lot of people watching agree with you. And thank you also for sharing your expertise from all of your experience serving our country. Really appreciate you being here. Coming up, we're going to talk about Elon Musk and that trip to Wisconsin I just referenced, where he's basically trying to buy a Supreme Court seat, a state Supreme Court seat.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
We'll also talk about a race that's getting a lot less attention and deserves a lot more. We'll be right back. So tomorrow is Election Day, at least in some states, and that includes a big state Supreme Court race in Wisconsin between Judge Susan Crawford and her Trump-backed opponent Brad Schimel.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
The contest has gotten a lot of attention and a lot of money has gone into the race, especially after Elon Musk decided he was going to try to buy that election. So the richest man in the world took it upon himself to also go to Wisconsin yesterday. Who doesn't want Elon Musk campaigning for them? Most people don't want that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
But when he was there, he handed out giant novelty checks for a million dollars at a rally. You can see him there. Including one to the head of the Wisconsin College Republicans. Not exactly subtle, is it? Also not subtle, Musk basically admitted his efforts in the state are all about revenge.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
It's actually not insane. I mean, what he's describing there is kind of civics 101. It's basically what courts are empowered to do.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And while Musk has made Wisconsin a bit of a spectacle lately, I think it's fair to say, there are actually two other elections unfolding tomorrow in Florida, including a really interesting one in Florida's 6th congressional district, where MAGA State Senator Randy Fine is running against Democrat Josh Wheal, who's also a public school teacher, by the way.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
It's a special election to replace Congressman Michael Waltz. Yes, that Mike Waltz. Now, to be clear, this is a very red district. In 2024, Waltz won about two-thirds of the total vote. I'm talking about a 30-point blowout. That's huge. But here we are just a few months later, and Republicans are definitely not feeling so confident.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I mean, even Donald Trump admitted as much last week when he pulled the nomination of Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to be U.N. ambassador, because basically the loss of another seat would just be too big of a risk for his agenda. It would be too narrow, very narrow in the House, dirty narrow.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
They're obviously worried because it's not outside the realm of possibility that Democrats could pick up another seat in Florida, where Josh Will has raised far more money and has basically exceeded every expectation. And his opponent, Randy Fine, isn't doing himself any favors either, by the way.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I mean, this is a guy who once called a Florida school board member a whore, his words, not mine, and posted her phone number online. He also recently said Palestinian is just another word for demon. Then there was this behavior during a court hearing which prompted a judge to call him out for anger issues.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Seems like a guy you want to take home to mom, doesn't he? But here's the thing. It's a really red district. And even if Democrats can manage to run up the score and tighten the margin, though, that would send a really kind of a big message to Republicans in Florida and Republicans in Washington. But candidates don't just run to send a message. They run to win.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So that was a constituent asking a question, Deep Red Indiana, a lot of people are asking it, pressing on the question, people standing and applauding around the firing of Pete Hegseth. See, it's not just a D.C. thing. The people of Indiana sure seem to care about this. There's many others like them. But here's the other thing to remember. Donald Trump also knows that this story isn't over yet.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And Josh Wheel, candidate for Florida's 6th Congressional District, is going to join me live when we come back. Ken Martin ran for DNC chair on a promise to compete everywhere. And right now, that strategy has meant a trip to Florida's 6th Congressional District to campaign for Democratic candidate Josh Wheel. And I want to read from a piece Politico posted about that trip today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Here's what it said. More than halfway through a 25-minute interview, Martin hadn't brought up Republican candidate Randy Fine once. When Florida Playbook pointed this out, he said, I haven't heard much about him at the doors, to be honest with you. And so I think this race is about Donald Trump and Elon Musk and people's deep dissatisfaction with what's happening. Joining me now is Josh Wheel.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
He's the Democratic candidate for Congress in Florida's 6th Congressional District. Josh, you have had a hell of a couple of weeks putting yourself on the map. Congratulations for that. Tomorrow's a big day. I just wanted to start by asking you about what Ken Martin said, because I think we're all watching this race. You know it best.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
He seemed to imply that people are talking mainly about Trump and Musk. They're talking more about him than fine. Do you think this election is a referendum on Trump's second term? Is that how you see it or what you hear from people?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So it sounds like, yeah, it is kind of a referendum in your view on Trump and Musk.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So what should people—I gave a little bit of a taste there of who Randy Fine is. What should people know about the kind of guy he is?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Senator Booker said he intends to disrupt the normal business of the Senate for as long as he is physically able to. He says he's doing it because he believes sincerely that the nation is in crisis. He said Americans are asking their lawmakers to acknowledge that what the Trump administration is doing is not normal. So that's what he intends to do.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Special elections are always kind of mind games because you never know how many people are going to turn out. There have been some polls that have shown you up by three points, which is mind blowing because Trump won the district by 30 in November. People like Steve Bannon are saying you're going to win. That could be mind games, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that National Security Advisor Mike Waltz has created and hosted multiple other sensitive conversations on Signal with Cabinet members, including separate threads on how to broker peace between Russia and Ukraine, as well as on military operations. What could be on all of those?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Do you believe the polls that you're ahead as you're going into tomorrow?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
You're a math teacher. I love that. There could be some math teachers in Congress here. They have trouble with some counting at times about deficits and such things caused by tax cuts. That aside, how has being a teacher informed your decision to run for office?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Joshua, it's not easy to put yourself out there. It's not easy to raise money. I'm sure all of the students you've taught over the last 13 years and everybody in your community is so proud of you. Tomorrow's a big day. I hope you get some sleep. I really appreciate you taking the time to join me tonight. Thank you so much.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And we'll be right back. We're just gonna take a quick break. One last heads up for our friends in Florida and Wisconsin who are watching. Tomorrow, polls open at 7 a.m. local time in Wisconsin for that critical state Supreme Court race. And the outcome there will affect the ideological balance of a court that is likely to hear cases on everything from abortion rights to congressional maps.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So it really matters. And in Florida, voters head to the polls in two special elections. I just talked with one of the candidates in deeply Republican Red House districts, the 1st District and the 6th District. Republicans currently have a razor-thin majority in the House, so every election matters. Polls open at 7 a.m.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And I think that when this story broke, we all kind of suspected that it might just be the tip of the iceberg. Did anyone really believe that Hootie PC small group was the only one? That the top national security advisors engaging with their takes on the president's point of view on military options, throwing out all sorts of crazy emojis over a group chat, it was all just a one-off? I didn't.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
local time in both those races, and you can visit your Board of Elections website for more information. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show every Sunday at 12 p.m. and Monday at 8 p.m. on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. For now, goodbye from Washington, and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I remember it's only been a week. And believe me, the best national security reporters, many of them are in this building in Washington, are chasing this story from every conceivable angle. There's lots of angles. And if there's more out there, the best national security reporters in Washington are probably going to find it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And then the question becomes, what else could have been revealed over those other group chats? What other sources and methods were put at risk? Now, there is some movement in Washington. The top Republican and the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee have called for an independent investigation into the signal debacle. And they could find out more, too. That's very conceivable.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And a group of five House Democrats, led by Representative Dan Goldman of New York, who we're going to talk to in a moment, called on Attorney General Pam Bondi to name a special counsel. Not exactly holding my breath on that one, but I guess we'll see. The point is there's lots of activity here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So yeah, Donald Trump wanted to change the subject right now and get the attention off of this massively embarrassing screw-up involving the highest-ranking officials in his administration. So it was, in some ways, it wasn't really that surprising when Donald Trump picked up the phone this weekend and called NBC's Kristen Welker. In that conversation, he said he was pissed at Vladimir Putin. Okay.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
He threatened Russia with tariffs. He threatened Iran with tariffs. He threatened to bomb Iran. And he refused to rule out military action to annex Greenland. It's kind of like he had a note card or a post-it or something with a list of big shiny objects. He wanted to cover Russia, Iran, Greenland bombing something. And he just ticked right through them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And then there was also an exchange in that interview with Kristen about perhaps the shiniest object of all, the blatantly unconstitutional prospect of Trump serving a third term in office. Before I show you exactly what Donald Trump told Kristen Welker about that, and I'll read through the whole transcript for you, I want to show you what he said about it in the past, because that matters too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And he said he's going to stand right there until he no longer can. So we're going to keep a close eye on that tonight and just wanted to mention it right off the top because it's a pretty cool thing happening right now. Now, in the meantime, I want to talk about just how badly Donald Trump wants to change the subject right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
point is he's talked about this a lot in the past. My bet is that other times when he wanted to change the subject. And yeah, they've sounded like jokes, how unfunny it all is after all. And with all of that being said and all that background, here's what he told Kristen Welker over the weekend.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I'm just going to read from the part of the transcript when he talked about the blatantly unconstitutional prospect of serving a third term in office. So here goes. Trump. A lot of people want me to do it, but we have, my thinking is, we have a long way to go. I'm focused on the current. Welker. Have you been presented with any potential plans that would allow you to serve a third term? Trump.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Well, there are plans. There are not plans. There are. There are methods, but you could do it, as you know. Welker. Basic, well, let me throw out one where President Vance would run for office and then would basically, if you, if he won at the top of the ticket, would then pass the baton to you. Trump. Well, that's one. But there are others, too. There are others, too. There are others?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Well, that's Welker. Welker now. There are others. There are others? Can you tell me another? Trump. No. Welker. Okay, but sir, I'm hearing you don't sound like you're joking. I've heard you joke about this a number of times. Trump. No. No. I'm not joking. I'm not joking. He said he wasn't joking. He said it twice. And here he is in the Oval Office just a couple of hours ago.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Again, decide for yourself how serious you think he is, and decide for yourself how serious his buddy Steve Bannon has sounded over the past few months.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Let's say that you can decide for yourself. The Constitution explicitly prohibits it. And again, he wants us to talk about anything other than signal the signal debacle. And I promise you, we're going to talk about that tonight, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Or, frankly, the too close for comfort special election in Florida happening tomorrow, where Democrat Josh Wheal, who we will also talk with later on the show, is polling ahead of the Republican candidate in a seat that Trump won by 30 points. He doesn't want to be seen as someone losing political power or losing control of his team for that matter. I get all of that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
I mean, when something super embarrassing happens, that's what you want to do, right? That's true in life. And it's definitely true when the top members of your administration get caught texting about imminent war plans on an unsecure app and accidentally include a reporter on the chain. And trust me, Donald Trump knows this one is breaking through in a way that other scandals have not.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Here's what I would also say about the distraction piece of this. We can walk and chew gum. We have to walk and chew gum. We can and should talk about all of it. And we will talk about all of it tonight. Let me just throw a couple of things out there for you to consider about this third term stuff. First is Donald Trump isn't exactly someone who is guided by what the Constitution allows for.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
We all know that. He tried rolling back birthright citizenship, which flies in the face of the 14th Amendment. He and Elon Musk have basically stolen Congress's spending power, which disregards Article 1. He has detained legal permanent residents and shipped people to El Salvador without trials or formal charges, completely ignoring the Fifth Amendment.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So if there's been one lesson, there's been many. But if there's one big lesson since Donald Trump took office again, it's that he's tried to follow through on just about every illegal, unconstitutional thing that he said he would try. He said he was going to do all of this stuff. And he has tried to do all of this stuff. The courts have pushed back every step of the way. But he's tried.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And that's all in the last couple of months. Should we go back a tiny bit further? Because remember, this is the same guy who tried to overthrow the government when he lost the presidential election in 2020. It's the same guy who had a detailed plan to overturn the will of the people with fake electors. And when that didn't work, he sent a violent mob to the Capitol.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
OK, I want to start tonight by showing you something that's actually pretty cool that's happening right now on the floor of the Senate. Because about an hour ago, Senator Cory Booker, you can see him right there, started speaking. And it seems like he's going to be speaking for quite a while.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Do you really think that guy cares about the 22nd Amendment and what it says? Really think that guy won't try to try something, try anything to stay in power? Look, I'm not saying he has an actual path here. And whatever path he might see could get stopped in any number of ways. What I'm saying is that we have every reason to believe he might try. And trying is bad enough.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Even talking about it is bad enough. So no, we can't let him get off the topics that warrant discussion, and we won't. But we also have to be prepared for what he might do. And I know my first guest tonight is taking this seriously. Congressman Dan Goldman was the first member of Congress to introduce a resolution affirming that Donald Trump cannot have a third term.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
And he joined us live in just 60 seconds. So three words should stick out to everyone when Donald Trump mused about a third term to NBC's Kristen Welker. He explicitly said, I'm not joking. And yet, here's how Republican leaders in Congress reacted today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Just messing with us, guys. It's all a joke. I mean, maybe they somehow missed that an actual resolution has been introduced by Republican Congressman Andy Ogles to amend the Constitution to allow Donald Trump to be elected to a third term.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
But if they really think it's such a ridiculous notion, then they should have no trouble signing on to the measure introduced by Congressman Dan Goldman, reaffirming support for the 22nd Amendment, right? I'm sure he'd welcome co-signers, Republicans too. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Dan Goldman of New York. It's good to see you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Say what you want about him, and I promise you I will keep saying a whole lot of things. But perhaps more than anything else, the guy is a voracious consumer of television. And he knows how to read a poll.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
So many things to talk to you about, but I want to start here because the 20th and the 22nd Amendment, you proposed this resolution, presumably because you didn't think it was a joke, even though you don't want to get your chain pulled, as Rachel Maddow would say, but think it's a joke.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
You know, we really struggled with how much do we talk about this because we don't. He wants to change the subject. And I know that. And we know that. But to your point, he also does this thing where something is floated. It seems insane. It's like what people would follow him. And then the Republican caucus, most of them follow him. So it's important to talk about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
In a brand new poll from CBS News released just yesterday, a full 75% of Americans said the Trump administration discussing military plans on Signal and accidentally including a journalist is a serious matter. You don't say. Now, in that same poll, 76% said it was not appropriate for the administration to use the app to discuss military plans.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Let me ask you about one of the theories thrown out there, because you were also an excellent lawyer in addition to being a member of Congress. The one that he could run as Vance's vice president in twenty twenty eight and then have them flip.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Signal & Noise: Trump Talks Third Term Amid Texting Scandal
Not allowed for according to the Constitution, I assume you're saying.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Okay, so it's been more than a month, if you can believe it, since Donald Trump announced his sweeping and pretty ridiculous tariffs. But Mr. Art of the Deal, as he calls himself, has not yet struck a single trade deal, not a single one, with any single country. but someone very close to him has. This, you can see right here, is Lesotho.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
The diplomatic translation of that for all of you is the government of Lesotho feels like it's being awfully generous with the Starlink deal. And they're hoping that means something good for them down the road. Now, you may be thinking, Elon Musk is the world's richest guy. Why would he care about landing the satellite contract for a country the size of Maryland?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, you mentioned the dolls. What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around, he seems bizarrely flippant, maybe, about the impact of tariffs on families. I mean, there are many impacts. I mean, he gets mad. We got mad when he was asked about the price of strollers going up. You mentioned he makes creepy comments about how many dolls girls need. What is it about?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It seems just so disconnected, but it seems like it must be about something more than that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I don't know what kind of a pickleball player he'd be, but we'll leave that. Now, Governor Walz, I have so many I want to talk to you about politics, so many things I want to talk about. We have to take a very quick break. We're going to be right back with Governor Walz. Stay right where you are. We're back, as promised, with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Governor Walz, there's obviously so much going on right now with the impact of the Trump administration on people's lives right now in Minnesota and across the country. But I think a really important part of the story is also what the opposition is doing and the questions that the Democratic Party and others are asking themselves. And you've talked a lot about this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
The answer to that question is that it's not just Lesotho. The Post also reports that Starlink has won at least partial accommodations from Somalia, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Vietnam. And the Post even notes, this is probably not a comprehensive count, which means everyone, more coming probably.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, you said recently that you think the Democratic Party needs to fundamentally change change. And when you lose, I think that's that's the right statement. But but how do you think the Democratic Party needs to change?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It sounds like, and this is such an interesting conversation, because I think some people think it's policy, it's message, it's how you're talking to people. Maybe it's all three. It sounds like some of what you're saying is it's policy, too, and having bold policies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I wanted to also ask you, I mean, you've been doing something pretty interesting, I think, which is talking with voters in red states on your tour about why they stayed home. And I do think that's a big part of the story. What are you hearing the most from people about why they stayed home? People who maybe are aligned with the platform that you and Vice President Harris ran on?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Now, it would be one thing if countries were just trying to fill the pockets of Elon Musk on their own accord, maybe because they see Musk in the Oval Office a lot. He's close to Trump. You know, they're calculating a benefit. But the eye-popping element of today's reporting in The Washington Post is that The Post claims to have obtained internal government messages that show U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Fight, fight, fight for the good causes. I think that's a big, a big dividing point right now. And I agree with that. Governor Tim Walz, thank you so much. I always enjoy talking to you. We're going to take a quick break. But after that, we're going to talk about what Carrie Lick and Caroline Levitt have in common right now. That's a scary question. It's got a scary answer.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
But I'm going to talk about it after a very quick break when we come back. Voice of America was once the largest U.S. international broadcasting network. It was established back during World War II to push back against Nazi propaganda. Now, back in March, Trump attempted to dismantle VOA, calling it anti-Trump and radical and many other things.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
In an executive order, he put its more than 1,000 full-time staff and contractors on leave. And as of right now, VOA has fewer than 20 staffers. They were dramatically diminished. That's very hard to run a news organization with that number of people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
embassies and the State Department proactively pushing nations towards Starling. I mean, it doesn't get much more blatant than this. And I'm just going to quote the story again here because I think it tells you kind of what you need to know.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And then yesterday, Carrie Lake, the Trump-led ally and failed political candidate multiple times over, who now runs the agency that oversees VOA, announced that VOA will now carry programming from the far-right news outlet One America News, like it was a victory lap.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
OAN, as I'm sure you know, is one of the Trump-aligned cable news networks that paid out defamation settlements for pushing 2020 election lies. And if you're not familiar, and you probably are, here's just a taste of what they offer.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, it's hard to even follow some of it. But the point is this. I mean, after 15 prior administrations, Trump and Carrie Lake have taken what was supposed to be an organization that pushes back against disinformation and instead made it a platform for broadcasting this information, all neatly packaged together by OAN.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It will essentially be a shot of pro-Trump nonsense into all sorts of international markets around the world. And that push for exclusively pro-Trump messaging isn't a one-off at all. I mean, it's pretty consistent with what is happening in the White House briefing room right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
According to a Media Matters review of White House press briefings through April 22nd, White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt called on right-wing media outlets 41 percent of the time. And four of the five reporters called on the most frequently were from right-wing outlets.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
The Trump administration has also taken a special interest in bringing in new media influencers, as they call them, like podcasters, into the briefing room. Now, every president since Barack Obama has engaged in one form or another with online influencers. It's what they've all done. And I can also attest that the White House briefing room is very outdated. It should be modernized.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Under Trump, Secretary of State Marco Rubio has signed at least two cables asking department staffers worldwide to promote American satellite services, including Starlink, mentioned by name in both missives. Now, another cable from April 17th reported that Starlink was pushing for a license to operate in Djibouti.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
There should be more outlets from across the country, online or otherwise. But what they are doing is not broadening and diversifying the voices who have access to the briefing room and the president. That's not what they're doing. They are narrowing it step by step to voices who are eager to please the person they consider their boss, Donald Trump, the president.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Trust me when I tell you this has all led to some truly surreal moments, like one right-wing influencer asking a two-and-a-half-minute question that ended with this quote, Can you please let us know if and when the Trump administration is planning to suspend the writ of habeas corpus to circumvent these radical judges and to start shipping out illegals en masse?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Literally the end of a two-and-a-half-minute question. Can't say I've ever gotten a briefing question like that or any questions like these.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Yeah, I mean, the questions are absurd. They're pretty freaking weird. There are a lot of things. But it's just a part of a larger, more dangerous strategy, which is to push out voices that are seeking the truth, who are trying to hold the administration accountable. And that's what they've done for decades, as they have done for Democratic and Republican administrations for decades.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And their goal here is to create a larger echo chamber for Trump and MAGA's version of reality. If that's not taking a page out of the Kremlin playbook, I'm really actually not quite sure what is. Coming up, we have a conversation with Senator Raphael Warnock. We'll try to get to the truth about what Republicans are trying to do to Social Security and Medicaid right now. All important stuff.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
We'll be right back. In order to pass Trump's tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy, which he really wants to do, Republicans really have no choice but to make hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts to programs like Medicaid, which of course provides health care coverage for tens of millions of low-income Americans. At least one House Republican isn't on board with this. That's good news.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Nebraska Representative Don Bacon, who's become a rare example of a Republican willing to criticize Trump, has said he's against it. Now, predictably, Bacon is reportedly being pressured in private by Republican leaders to drop his objections.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And as a part of this behind-the-scenes pressure campaign of sorts, Bacon told the Wall Street Journal today that Republican leaders told him any steep reductions to Medicaid that are passed by the House would be blocked by the Senate anyway. Except...
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
That doesn't appear to be the case, because according to Punchbowl News, at a closed-door retreat today, Senate Republican leaders said their colleagues in the House aren't being aggressive enough. Those Republican senators reportedly suggested reducing a program called FMAP, which is basically the federal match for states that participate in Medicaid expansion.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Embassy staffers in Djibouti responded that they would help Starlink as much as they could. When asked for comment, the State Department responded to the Washington Post with this. Here's what they said, quote, Sure. OK. Fair. I mean, The Washington Post also accurately notes that the Biden administration pushed other nations to work with American satellite companies, including Starlink.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, states rely on this federal money. That move alone, according to a new report released today by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, would result in 2.4 million Americans being kicked off their health insurance. Joining me now, Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock. There are so many titles. So impressive. Democrat from the great state of Georgia.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It's so great to see you, Senator Warnock. Good to be here with you. thoughtful about all of these issues and how they impact real people's lives. And I just want to start with the CBO report and just the issue of Medicaid, because I think people are trying to pull some wool over the eyes of the American public right now. The Republicans are some are claiming they're not going to make these cuts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
What are you preparing for as you're seeing this all go down on the hill right now?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It's a tiny, tiny country surrounded entirely by South Africa. It's literally in the middle of South Africa. Now, just to put the size of the country in perspective, which you can definitely tell from the map, it's roughly the size of the state of Maryland. It has about a third of the population. So it's teeny tiny, but it was still hit with tariffs by the Trump team.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I know you are. And one of the other programs that is under threat right now that doesn't get nearly enough attention is why we're going to talk about it. It's Social Security. And there's lots of ways this administration is going after Social Security. One of them is trying to close Social Security offices across the country. And you did something that was pretty interesting.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, they posted, basically, that five offices in Georgia that they were planning to close, the Doge team. And you kind of ran, you and your team ran an all-out effort to pressure them not to close the offices. And you were successful. I mean, you come from an activist background. But I'm raising this because it kind of tells me and tells everyone that really pushing on these things matter.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
What should people know about how you effectively did that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Yeah, it's working. It's working. I mean, it's an example of it working. You see the protests out there. You see activism like that. I'm wondering, I mean, you and I have talked about this before, just how your ministry and your faith impact how you approach your job as a legislator and as somebody who represents people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And as we're looking at the threats to all of these programs, to the budget, to programs people rely on, and this must be particularly on your mind. I mean, you're obviously... still a minister, but also you have a new children's book out, Leo's Lunchbox, which is also based on a biblical story. Everybody should go out there and buy.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
But I want to know, kind of, as you're looking at a party, a lot of members of the Republican Party wear their faith on their sleeve in a way that they use it as a reasoning for their policy positions. How do you think about this?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And that's true. They did. But here's the thing, as we all know, Starlink's owner was not one of President Biden's biggest donors who was hanging out in the Oval Office all the time. Nor was Biden strong arming foreign countries to help that particular donor.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
We have to be. Let me ask you in the minute or so we have left. I mean, you're many things. You are a person of deep faith. You are a senator. You're also a successful politician. You run. You won in a state that was called a politician. Well, you are successful. You won in a state that was considered a red state for a long time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
You did that, I think, by showing up in places that surprised people. Do you think that's part of that? You're seeing people do that now. Is that a part of the strategy you would advise people to take as they look to running over the next year or two?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Now, I should note that spokespeople for Lesotho and Starling's parent company, SpaceX, didn't respond to the Washington Post's request for comment. But the White House did. And here was the White House's response to this story about Trump's biggest donor, the richest man in the world, potentially taking advantage of Trump's trade war to cash in abroad. Here's what they said.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
You're still fighting for them. That's what a real leader does. Senator, it was great to see you. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you. Congratulations on your book as well. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. OK, that does it for me tonight. But we're already working on a great show for tomorrow night. New York Attorney General Tish James is going to be my guest.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
She's going to join me after she co-hosts a town hall with other state AGs to hear from citizens about how their lives are being impacted by the Trump administration. I'm sure they'll have lots of questions about what these AGs are doing about it, too. Super interested in talking with her. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram, and TikTok. For now, goodbye from Washington, and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
The only consideration in the Trump administration's trade negotiations with other countries is what's best for the American people. That is what a White House spokesperson told the Washington Post today. Sounds good, right? The only consideration in Trump's trade negotiations is what is best for the American people. OK, I want you to keep that quote in mind. That's why I repeated it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
As you listen to what Trump said today in the Oval Office about the idea of creating tariff exemptions to help working families.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
So, OK, again, their quote, the only consideration in Trump's trade negotiations is what is best for the American people. But should those people be able to afford car seats for their babies? Well, Trump doesn't know. He's going to have to think about it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And that piece about the State Department reportedly pushing Elon Musk's satellite company abroad while countries are trying to find their way out of Trump's tariffs wasn't even the only blockbuster piece about tariffs out of The Washington Post today. There was also this headline. Trump's tariffs hit baby industry hard, threatening parents with price hikes shortages.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Virtually every car seat, stroller, bassinet and changing table sold in the U.S. is made in China. Now, the story also cites quite a statistic from the Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association. Here's what it says. More than 70% of the baby gear purchased by Americans is manufactured by U.S. companies in China.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
But with new tariffs more than doubling the cost of Chinese imports, prices on baby necessities are rising fast. And manufacturers and retailers are suddenly slamming on the brakes. So they cite Delta Children, which is the country's largest crib and children's furniture brand. They paused nearly all shipments from China early last month, as soon as the White House announced higher tariffs.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And the CEO of that crib and furniture brand told the Post, quote, we're going to end up with bare shelves in another couple of months if things don't change. And the thing about baby products, and I have two kids, they're not babies anymore, but I know what it's like to buy baby products, is if you have a baby, they aren't optional. If you have a baby, you need a crib.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And will Trump and the White House have not managed to strike a deal with the kingdom of Lesotho? The Washington Post reports tonight that Elon Musk has. This is from that brand new reporting.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It's federal law that you cannot drive your baby anywhere without a car seat. Most hospitals literally won't even let you take your baby home out of the hospital unless you have a car seat. But should car seats be exempted from tariffs? Well, Trump doesn't know. He's going to think about that one.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Look, the reality here is that if Trump doesn't back down on his tariffs, or at least, very least, I should say, exempt necessary products like cribs and car seats, a lot of parents aren't going to be able to afford basic necessities for their babies. A childhood studies professor at Rutgers University put it to the post this way.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
If these tariffs stay in place, there's a good chance there's going to be a stronger bifurcation of children's haves and have-nots, of families with and without. It's perfect time to re-raise their statement. Remind me, what was the White House's statement about Trump's tariffs again? Here it is, right there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
The only consideration in the Trump administration's trade negotiations with other countries is what's best for the American people. Right.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, if you're a parent right now or an aspiring parent, maybe you're a grandparent or just an aunt who wants to help your friend out, and you are worried about the price of strollers, which a lot of people are, it's certainly not peanuts. The president says he has bigger things to worry about than making sure you can pay for things for your kids. That's pretty clear.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Less than two weeks after President Donald Trump announced 50% tariffs on goods from the tiny African nation of Lesotho, they even note the size, the country's communications regulator held a meeting with representatives of Starlink. Now Starlink, as you all know, is of course Elon Musk's satellite communications company.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
But when it comes to his own two large adult sons, he seems pretty focused on making sure they want for nothing. I mean, take a look at this. This is a brand new hotel and apartment building going up in Dubai. It is very, very fancy. Every window opens to the sea, it says. It has a golf simulator, an infinity pool, and some weird-looking treadmills in the gym.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
It's a place where you can apparently put on a gold dress, put your hands up against the big glass window, and stop at nothing, whatever that means. This is obviously the new Trump Tower building being built in Dubai.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And Donald Trump's kids do not need to worry about the price of strollers right now, obviously, because they just signed a lucrative deal to build this huge tower, where individual units are selling for a $20 million price tag apiece. It's not just Dubai, either.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
There's also the brand-new building under construction in Saudi Arabia, which has some pretty freaky-looking big cat art in the lobby for some reason. I can't explain that one. And hey, look, the same funky treadmills from Dubai. And also a brand-new complex in Qatar, where Eric Trump was just inspecting the miniature-sized model like he is in Zoolander or something.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And real estate may be the bread and butter of the Trump Organization. But these days, the Trump boys have expanded the family business, shall we say. They have not one, but two Trump-branded cryptocurrency ventures. To put it simply, when anyone buys these Trump currencies, it helps the Trump kids make more money.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I mean, right now, the boys are running kind of a contest of sorts, where the people who buy the most of Trump's meme coin get to have dinner with their dad, Donald Trump. Not this weird cartoon drawing of him. The more money you pay the Trump kids, the more likely it is you get to have dinner with the actual president of the United States.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Bloomberg News actually reports today that more than half of the people who own the most of the Trump meme coin are likely foreign, meaning the Trump kids have not only built themselves a gigantic cash register to let people buy access to their dad, but they are essentially selling access to the president of the United States to foreigners. Now,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Perhaps they can all hang out at the new private membership club in D.C., which happens to be co-owned by Trump's oldest son. Seems to be quite a happening place. President's attorney general, other members of his administration have already been seen at the club's events, which is perhaps why they are literally calling the club the executive branch. They're not even trying to hide it here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Membership fees, and this is eye-popping, are $500,000 just to walk in the door. Half a million dollars to access the executive branch. And yes, again, the name is just so on the nose. It's almost like they are trolling us at this point in some way.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
But brazen or not, and this is definitely brazen, the president's adult children and his best buddy, Elon Musk, are perhaps the only people in America actually making money off of this administration. That includes the president himself, who also financially benefits from many of these grifts being run by his two kids. So again, to recap, you can have two new Trump Towers.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
And according to the Washington Post, Starlink had been seeking access to customers in Lesotho for some time. But it was not until Trump unveiled the tariffs and called for negotiations over trade deals that leaders of the country awarded Musk's firm the nation's first ever satellite internet service license. Quite a coincidence, isn't it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
You can have one new complex in Qatar. You can have multiple cryptocurrencies, it seems, and a members-only club. But you cannot, I repeat, you cannot have a new stroller or apparently a new doll.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Something tells me Minnesota Governor Tim Walz is going to have some thoughts about all of this and a lot more. And he's going to join me in just 90 seconds. As promised, joining me now is Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. Governor, it's great to see you. I know you've been busy governing and on a red state tour. So thank you so much for taking the time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Thank you so much. There's so many things I want to talk to you about. I just want to start by putting up the headline that I started this show with. And here it is. U.S. pushes nations facing tariffs to approve Musk's Starlink. What do you make of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I think that the contrast, as you said, is the point here, right? I mean, he's unwilling to commit to giving exemptions for strollers and things like that, but he is allowing his best buddy in the Oval Office to seemingly make money. Let me ask you, you said something in The New Yorker in March. I thought it was really interesting. I mean, you said we should prepare for the worst-case scenario.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
I think many of us feel that way. We're just over 100 days in. And I guess I get my start. I mean, are we in the worst-case scenario right now? Or what are you exactly preparing for as governor?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
Now, this deal even drew a mention in an internal State Department memo obtained by the Washington Post. And here's what that memo said. As the government of Lesotho negotiates a trade deal with the United States, it hopes that licensing Starlink demonstrates goodwill and intent to welcome U.S. businesses.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump scoffs at rising prices for families while his inner circle cashes in on foreign deals
You know, one of the reasons I love talking to people like you and other governors is that you described your job as kind of being part of a firewall. And I think others have described it like that as well. A lot of people are wondering kind of what can be done to stop this. I mean, what does that firewall look like for you as you prepare for other things the Trump administration could be doing?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
A massive show of opposition in cities across the country this weekend after a resounding message from voters in two states. and a jolt of hope on Capitol Hill from Senator Cory Booker after his record-breaking speech on Monday and Tuesday. He's going to join me first to talk about what all of this means and where we go from here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Just some of the early results of Donald Trump's trade war. And it's the people who can afford it the least who will be hit the hardest. We're going to talk about all of that. Michigan's Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchrist is standing by to talk about how it's impacting his state. And he joins me after the break.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
So anyone who took Donald Trump at his word during the campaign may not have believed there was any downside to the big, beautiful tariffs as he described them that he was promising. I mean, he spoke about them in pretty glowing terms, very consistently. So it's important to note how his rhetoric on tariffs changed after November. Once the election was over, Trump notably introduced this caveat.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
We may have short-term, some little pain, and people understand that. A little disturbance, a little disruption, a little pain. Doesn't exactly sound like a glowing endorsement of the impact of tariffs, I mean, does it? And that's just what Trump was willing to say out loud. So we all kind of know the truth is probably a whole lot worse.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Well, this week, after Trump finally unveiled the details of his sweeping new tariff policy, we got a preview of how much worse it's going to be. And the impact, some of it, was immediate. The stock market went into a free fall, with the S&P suffering a combined two-day loss of more than 10%. Forecasts for GDP growth were slashed, and the chances of a recession jumped from 40% to 60%.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
But in the long run, every American may be paying the price, literally. I mean, just consider the cost of electrical equipment. That's expected to rise by 10%, which could affect the price of everything from appliances to light bulbs to hair dryers and power tools. The cost of clothing is set to jump by an average of 17%, with some cheaper products potentially doubling in price.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
The cost of leather goods is expected to rise by 18%, things like shoes, bags, belts. And groceries will be more expensive, including the cost of fresh produce, nuts, rice, and seafood. Of course, the people hit the hardest by all of this are those who can least afford it. And that's not to mention the risk of layoffs as companies cut costs and consider downsizing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Places like Farmington, Maine, in a county that Donald Trump has won in every election. Red Bank, New Jersey, where Trump won the county by double digits. Sedona, Arizona, in a county Trump won by more than 30 points as he flipped the state red again. Missoula, Montana, in a state where Donald Trump won by 20.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
In Michigan this week, the auto giant Solantis, which owns Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge, announced it was temporarily laying off 900 workers at five U.S. facilities. And that may be just the tip of the iceberg. To people like Donald Trump, all of this may just be a, quote, little disturbance. But to most Americans, the impact could be devastating.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Joining me now is Lieutenant Governor of Michigan, Garland Gilchrist, who last month announced he's running for governor. Hello there, Lieutenant Governor. Thank you for joining me. I just want to start with, I mean, those temporary layoffs I mentioned came within hours of Trump's announcement. The auto industry is obviously hugely important in Michigan and to the country.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
It's a huge driver of the economy in Michigan. But give us a full picture of the impact of the tariffs you're seeing on the people of your state.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
That's a good way to talk about your campaign. I want to talk about that, too. I want to get kind of some clarity from you. I mean, one of the things I've read is that some union leaders have expressed some support or have just chosen to be relatively quiet. Maybe I'm misreading it about the tariffs. Have you been in touch with them or what do you make of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
You mentioned that these layoffs are not temporary. I think that's so important for the bill to understand. You would know you're the lieutenant governor of the state. You're running for governor. So you're dealing with the layoffs. You're dealing with the gutting of the federal government. How are you? I mean, and these are some of the biggest industries in the state.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
So red states, blue states, swing states, people everywhere are making their voices heard. And they're doing it at the ballot box, too, because this week also, on Tuesday, the people of Wisconsin delivered a complete rebuke to Elon Musk, shown there in the cheese hat, as he attempted to buy a state Supreme Court seat.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I know you mentioned solutions, but how are you going to approach all of this in terms of the economy and the impact of all of it on the people of Michigan? Give me some specifics.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchrist, thank you so much for joining me. I'll look forward to talking to you again. Hope you'll come back. We'll talk more about your campaign. I really appreciate it. Coming up, as he attempts to dismantle the Department of Education, Donald Trump keeps saying it should be left up to the states. Apparently not everything.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Former Education Secretary under President Biden, Miguel Cardona, is standing by for his first major interview since leaving office. I've been really looking forward to this. He joins me after the break. OK, so remember all the times Trump said something like this?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Well, apparently that doesn't apply across the board. This week, the Trump administration told state education officials they have just 10 days to prove they've eliminated all diversity, equity and inclusion programs from public schools or they will risk losing federal funding. Now, here's the catch, one of the catches, if that doesn't already sound terrible.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
The Department of Education hasn't even defined what counts as DEI, so schools will have to guess what programs they need to eliminate. Does that mean teaching black history, multicultural programs? Does it mean MLK celebrations? And if this sounds like it wasn't exactly thought out, that's because it wasn't. The DOE says they'll evaluate violations on a case-by-case basis. What does that mean?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I mean, basically, they'll make it up as they go along. So let's be clear, this isn't just about DEI. Project 2025 calls for phasing out federal education funding entirely over the next decade. And what this does is create two different Americas for students when it comes to education. In states like New York or Connecticut, where federal funds make up less than 10% of school budgets,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I mean, the world's richest man even went so far, and this is what you're watching on the screen right now, as to travel there to campaign with oversized checks and cheeseheads. And voters basically sent the message they hated that. That's what they said. Instead, they went out to the polls and they elected a liberal judge by a double-digit margin over Elon Musk's MAGA-favorite candidate.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Maybe many of the schools could weather the storm. But in places like Mississippi or Kentucky and most inner cities where nearly a quarter of school funding comes from the federal government, the fallout could be devastating for a generation of kids. Joining me now is the former Secretary of Education under President Biden, Miguel Cardona. Secretary Cardona, my kids are in public school.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I think so many people out there watching are wondering what all of this means. And we hear a lot of debates about what federal funding for federal schools and the impact it will be. But for many communities, especially in rural and lower income areas, that money is essential. I mean, I named some of the disparities with states. Can you just explain to people how much of an impact
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
polling federal funding would have on public schools across the country.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I know that. And I know you I mean, you came to the job of secretary as an educator, which was one of the things that really drove your time serving in that role. I mean, one of the things that this this announcement about D.I., the need to cut D.I. programs and the threat of cutting federal funding has made me think about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And I would love for you to speak about this as an educator is just how do you teach history to students if you have to cut out? Black history, if you can't do MLK celebrations, if you can't teach to students with disabilities or you can't promote STEM for girls, how do you do that as an educator?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And it wasn't even just Wisconsin. Even where Democrats lost in some of the reddest corners of Florida, the outpouring anti-Trump and anti-Musk energy shaped roughly 15 to 20 points off Republicans' November margins in two special elections for Congress there on Tuesday. All of these are good signs. A number of people have also put their hat in the ring to run for higher office recently.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
You know, one of the other things that's happened recently is the Supreme Court recently allowed Trump to cancel grants meant to recruit teachers in low-income and rural areas. And you just talked about the impact on rural communities, lower-income communities. These grants were designed, as I understand them, to help close equity gaps in the classroom.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
What does that tell you about the types of education programs that are on the chopping block? I know you've referenced this a little bit, but I think it's so important for people to understand the impact these cuts have on people's lives.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Secretary Cardona, it is such a pleasure speaking with you. I think so many parents out there and grandparents and caregivers are trying to make sense of what this all means and what's more important than kids and kids in school and giving them a shot. I so appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Coming up, I'm going to talk about what the president was doing instead of honoring the fallen service members who lost their lives during a NATO training mission overseas. But first, what exactly does House Speaker Mike Johnson have against new parents? We're going to talk about that coming up next. OK, things haven't been going all that great this week for House Speaker Mike Johnson.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Plus, Trump's tariffs are having an absolutely devastating impact on the markets and probably your 401k, as well as the cost of everything from fruit to cars to even beer. Michigan Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchrist just announced his plans to run for governor, and he joins me to talk about how Trump's tariffs are impacting the people in his state.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And don't just take it from me. Take a look at some of these headlines from the week. Johnson fails. Johnson suffers a defeat. Johnson scraps his whole week after brutal defeat. All of that came after Speaker Johnson tried and failed to kill a bipartisan proposal, a bipartisan one, that would allow new parents in Congress to vote by proxy, which basically means vote remotely.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Now, Johnson tried really, really, really hard to block the bill. But nine House Republicans rebelled and joined Democrats in preventing Johnson from doing exactly that. An exasperated Johnson basically took his ball and went home, canceling votes in the House for the rest of the week. And if you're thinking, why does Speaker Johnson want to quash this so bad?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Seems like a pretty logical thing to let new parents do, right? Even Donald Trump agrees. And he said so on Thursday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I don't know why it's controversial. That makes two of us, probably millions of us. And when the House returns tomorrow, we will watch and see if those words from Trump move the needle at all with Johnson or other House Republicans. But for now, this is the message to Speaker Johnson from Congresswoman Brittany Pedersen, one of the women leading the charge on proxy voting.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
People like Javier Becerra in California, Garland Gilchrist in Michigan, who I'm going to talk to shortly, and people like Mallory McMorrow.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Quote, don't F with moms. In fact, Pedersen actually brought her newborn son, Sam, to the House floor this week. You can see them right there. I love that so much. And Congresswoman Brittany Pedersen of Colorado joins me now. Congressman, first of all, congratulations on being a new mom. That's the most exciting thing of all. And thank you for doing what you're doing and fighting for this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
It's so important. Let me just start by asking you, I have two little kids. I have worked in two White Houses with two little kids. Just put into perspective for people out there why this vote for proxy voting is so important, why this would be such an important thing for new parents like yourself.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Very, and I just want to double down on a couple things you just said there for people to understand who maybe haven't had kids. You can't even fly when you're a certain amount pregnant, a certain amount of months or weeks pregnant. People won't let you fly. Sometimes people have dangerous pregnancies.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
After you give birth, if you've had a C-section or any other surgery that's major surgery, you're not even supposed to travel or walk upstairs. This is about allowing women like yourself to participate. Let me ask you, Congress, I referenced this, Congress is returning. Clearly, as I said, Mike Johnson kind of, you know, took left, left, left home. Congress, he let Congress go home.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
What do you think is going to happen tomorrow? And do you think there's space? I know your, your fellow partner in pushing for proxy voting here on a Congresswoman, Paulina Luna tweeted that Johnson called her and they discussed limiting the vote to just new moms who cannot physically travel. In other words, excluding, excluding new fathers who also play a critical role.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
What do you think of that compromise? And what do you think are kind of the next steps here?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And Democrats in Washington are also showing some serious signs of life. Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey held the Senate floor for 25 hours and five minutes. He broke the record of segregationist Strom Thurmond, that must have felt good, and reminded Americans that someone is standing up for them in Washington.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
It's not exactly a family values position. I'm just going to say, let me just end by saying, I mean, so many people can't see themselves in members of Congress and they feel like I can't do it because they want to have kids or they, you know, they are pregnant and you're an example of that. So thank you so much for pushing for this. Thank you for being with us. I really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Coming up next, thank you. Coming up next, the way a president spends his time tells you a whole lot about his priorities. I can tell you that. And Donald Trump is sending a pretty clear message. That's coming up next. There's nothing more valuable than a president's time. And how Donald Trump spent his time this week says a whole lot about his priorities. On Thursday, the bodies of four U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
soldiers of the 3rd Infantry Division departed to Dover Air Force Base. They had tragically been killed in a training exercise with NATO allies in Lithuania. You can see all of them on the screen right now. Now, in a dignified transfer on Friday, their remains arrived at Dover Air Force Base, and as is custom, several officials were there to pay their respects. You know who wasn't there?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
The commander in chief. Now, presidents don't always make it to these ceremonies, but Trump's entire handling of this tragedy would raise eyebrows if he were any other president. Remember when first asked about this tragedy, this is how he responded.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Apparently, the commander in chief hadn't gotten word at that point. So where was Trump when those soldiers were transferred to Dover Air Force Base? Well, sometimes the visual alone tells you all that you need to know. Because Trump was at his resort in Miami, Florida. He was there to hit the links for the Saudi-backed live golf tournament that was being hosted at his course.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And after a day on the green, according to an invitation reviewed by CBS News, Trump was to speak at a $1 million a person candlelight super PAC dinner at Mar-a-Lago. Meanwhile, as Trump was whisked away for a donor dinner and a day of golf, here's how the people of Lithuania honored these fallen soldiers.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
In Vilnius, Lithuania's president and other dignitaries joined thousands of people on Thursday for a departure ceremony. Schoolchildren, accompanied by their teachers, waved Lithuanian and U.S. flags to honor the fallen soldiers. Many of those who lined the streets were in tears. Those Lithuanians took the time to honor the lives of those service members.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Somehow Donald Trump couldn't find the time to do so, I guess. But do you know what he did find the time to do this week? Again, President's time, very valuable. Well, he made time to host an Oval Office meeting with a bigoted far-right conspiracy theorist.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And in that meeting, Laura Loomer, yes, that's who I'm referring to, who once said that 9-11 was an inside job, proceeded to lecture Trump and a number of his top officials about the people she thought should be fired for being disloyal to the president.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And it turns out Trump listened because after the meeting, the Trump administration fired at least three people from the National Security Council. Additionally, we know that the chief of national security of the National Security Agency was also fired after the meeting with Loomer. That man, Air Force General Timothy Howe, was not only the director of the NSA, who was also the head of U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Cyber Command. I mean, this guy is very accomplished. Like you can see all his accomplishments on the screen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
So this president, this president who claims he loves the troops more than anyone, despite reports that he called them privately suckers and losers, this president this week has shown that he was willing to make time for golf, for people who are lining his pockets, and for conspiracy theorists, but not for fallen soldiers. Got it. So we've got some exciting news before we let you go.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
The MSNBC TikTok account has been nominated for a Webby Award in the news and politics social category. And we need viewers like you to help us win. So visit MSNBC.com slash Webby to vote. Please do. That does it for me today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
That was after he'd been up all night, by the way. Now, clearly, a lot of people were hungry for somebody in Washington to do something like this. Because on Booker's TikTok account alone, the live stream of his speech got over 350 million likes. His YouTube account had 110,000 people watching him live as he finished the speech. And his office got over 28,000 calls.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And his speech sparked, I have to say, I mean, more attention and coverage than anything else Democrats in Washington have tried since Trump took office. But other Senate Democrats joined the fight this week, too. Senator Adam Schiff placed a hold on the nomination of Ed Martin as U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Senator Ruben Gallego pledged to do the same to block Trump's nominees for the VA in protest of Trump's plans to slash jobs and jeopardize benefits. Senator Maria Cantwell spearheaded a bipartisan push to have Congress take away Trump's power to implement tariffs. And Senate Democrats convinced a handful of Republicans to join them in voting to suspend tariffs on Canada.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I'm not suggesting this is enough or that it will stop all the damage. It won't. Republicans still run both the Senate and the House, after all. Donald Trump's still sitting in the Oval Office. Elon Musk is still there all the time, too. But these are all steps in the right direction as a part of the opposition.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And also this week, some of the biggest names in Democratic politics stepped back into the fray. Former President Barack Obama spoke to a crowd at Hamilton College in upstate New York on Thursday, calling out just how outrageous the last few months have been.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And finally, the Trump administration threatened to withhold funding from public schools. Former Education Secretary Miguel Cardona joins me for his first national interview since leaving office to talk about one impact that may have on our kids.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
That sounds right to me. And former Vice President Kamala Harris made a rare public appearance as well, also calling out organizations who aren't meeting the moment.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
So this week showed the Democratic Party still has a lot of life in it for anyone who doubted. And maybe you didn't, but it showed that. And yes, there are plenty of reasons to fear the actions of the Trump administration. I don't think anybody is suggesting otherwise. But what's important is people are standing up to it at all levels. People are making their elected officials listen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
There's a lot of work ahead. Of course there is. But those are all steps in the right direction. Something Cory Booker also acknowledged after his speech, too, in a post on Blue Sky on Wednesday. Here's what he wrote. After getting some rest, I'm in awe of everyone who continues to lift their voice and speak out.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
This is a moment for our country and we just we must make a choice about the America we want it to be. And joining us now is hopefully a rested and hydrated Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. Senator, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for joining me. I just want to say, I mean, your speech was good to be back with you. It's good to have you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Your speech was a big part of what this made this week, a big one for Democrats, in my opinion. I mean, it was inspiring. Lots of things happened. I think it was a good sign. And you spoke a lot about the role of Americans in making what John Lewis would call called good trouble. And you were out there this weekend.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
In addition to doing what you did on Monday, you were out there this weekend at a local anti-Trump protest. You were held at Town Hall. Point is, you've been out there. I just gave my take on how I think this was one of the best political weeks for Democrats since the election. But how are you feeling about this week?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
So yeah, I mean, this week has definitely served up another reminder, or many reminders, of just how damaging Trump and his misguided policies are on all of our lives. And we're going to talk about all of that over the course of the next hour. Tariffs, schools, all of it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I want to talk to you about what this means ahead in just a moment, because I think that's such an important part of this. But I read something about your speech.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I read that the first thing you did post-speech, or one of the first things I should say, was pull a slip of paper out of your pocket with a line from the book of Isaiah that said, "'But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles. They shall run and not be weary, and they shall walk and not faint.'"
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
People who know you know that you're a spiritual person, and that's a big driver for you. But I just wanted to know from you, why did you pick that, and why did you have it in your pocket, and what did it mean to you?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
But I wanted to start on more of a hopeful note, because this week has been tough, but has also shown that there are a lot of people out there who are fighting back. I'd even venture to say this has been the best political week Democrats and anyone else horrified know there's a lot of you out there by the Trump administration and what they've done since Election Day.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
One of the things that is characteristic of yours is you acknowledge when you've made mistakes or when you change a course. And you've talked a little bit about that in terms of how you've approached nominees recently. And you made a point of saying that you've been imperfect in your long speech the other night. I'm sure you can't remember every moment.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I was curious, I mean, when you got off the floor after 25 hours, after not eating, not drinking, not using the bathroom, what happened was it was the—your party, the entire Senate, I should say, moved forward on the nomination of Matt Whitaker as NATO ambassador, meaning no one used the power to put a hold on him. That's one example.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
Obviously, there's lots of power and lots of things happening in Washington. But have you had discussions over the last couple of days with leadership, with other colleagues, about the need to take more aggressive steps to block nominees?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
And what's most exciting is that this energy shift is really being driven by people across the country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans poured into the streets yesterday in communities, big and small communities, too, to protest against Trump. While cities like New York and D.C. saw tens of thousands of people, big crowds also showed up in red areas, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Life of the Party: New Hope For Democrats After a Good Week
I feel this week was an important one. I'm glad you reminded everyone it's not about party. It's about standing up for what's right. Senator Cory Booker, I hope you have some Gatorade and sleep and time to yourself. You were really a real inspiration for so many of us this week. Thank you so much for joining me. Still ahead, markets plunging, recession forecasts rising, and mass layoffs.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
No, clearly this is the last thing they want to talk about, which means we have to continue to talk about it because accountability is what we owe the American people on everything, but especially something where unequivocally soldiers' lives, airmen's lives, pilots' lives were at risk because of these actions. No one should be left off the hook. And we've talked about this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
I think this is clearly the tip of the iceberg. And we need to be relentless in pushing for transparency and accountability. If the Armed Services, the House Armed Services Committee chair has already said he won't hold a hearing, which is outrageous, we need to hold shadow hearings.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
We need to be asymmetric and figure out how to not let them get away with this, regardless of whether we're the majority or the minority. We owe that to the American people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
Well, look, we're in a pretty unprecedented time. This is something we have not done in a while. But there is precedent here, not only in the U.S., but in other countries, where we essentially set up a hearing. And if the Republican administration won't show up, then let's have the people who have the information, whether—
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
whether Mr. Goldberg would be willing to come forward, other military experts that can talk about, and kind of pick apart all those ridiculous excuses that you just played about the security of signal, about containing classified information, about the fact that there were sources and methods which is really important, revealed here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
There's likely a human source that now their life is in danger and we have less visibility into the Houthi network, which is exactly counter to the stated purpose. So I'm pushing for that within our team and our party to say, if they won't do this, we need to do it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
Oh, yeah. I mean, the biggest wave of incoming we've had from people's concerns is about the real harm being done. I mean, particularly by Doge and Musk. We've had our Social Security office in our district closed, which is outrageous, put on the Doge list. We've had 20 inpatient VA beds at the VA hospital I go to closed.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
We've had people told they're going to be evicted that are on HUD grants that are formerly homeless veterans. So, rightly so, that's The overwhelming thing. The real, I mean, these are people's lives being absolutely ripped apart. We have also, though, gotten a ton of incoming about this sort of signal leak and all that goes with it. Not only the substance of it, but the lying.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
I mean, I think it's really gone from a screw-up to a cover-up. And I think that seems to be what they're doubling and tripling down on. And that just defies, I think, sort of the American ethos of accountability. Certainly, what I learned as an Army officer is you're responsible for everything your organization does and fails to do. Hegseth needs to own up to that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
People are really, especially since the Trump administration being hurt, but even before that, for the last 20 years, economically, particularly, people are being hurt in my district and across the country. And they're looking... Someone's responsible for that. And Trump has offered a set of villains that are...
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
disingenuous and divisive, we have to offer more honest explanation of who's responsible for the fact that in my district, for example, UnitedHealthcare has bought up all the healthcare practices. Cost is up. Quality is down. You can't get an appointment. The villain here is a massive healthcare conglomerate that's made record-breaking profits while people's care is suffering.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
We need to lean into that as a party because it's just the reality of how how people's lives are being lived. And if we don't bring voice to that and bring the fight and say, those are the villains and you are the heroes, the American people that are just trying to start a small business or support their family, we have your back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Bad Signal: Can Secretary Hegseth be Trusted at the Pentagon?
We're going to fight with you against those that are doing you harm.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Okay, Donald Trump spent the week attacking judges and continuing to ignore court orders. And unfortunately, history doesn't really offer us a guide here. Lucky for us, Congressman Jamie Raskin is probably the best guide you could hope for, and he's coming up first. Plus, Bernie Sanders and AOC turn out more than 80,000 people during a string of rallies out West.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Tempe, Arizona, back in 2015 when Bernie was a presidential candidate, his biggest crowd was just over 11,000. On Thursday, he turned out 15,000 people. The rally was so packed, even the overflow had an overflow, which is always a sign of interest. Here you can see dozens of people standing in a nearby parking garage to just catch a glimpse. That's Taylor Swift-like.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
That's the largest crowd Bernie Sanders has ever drawn. It's an enormous, enormous crowd. And yesterday, they were back in Arizona and turned out another 23,000 people, which brought them to a grand total of 86,000 people across five events. We should note all of these numbers were provided by the Sanders team, but the images do speak for themselves. You can see how crowded these events are.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Now, call me a cynic, but I don't think there's any amount of missed Social Security checks that could make Donald Trump lose much sleep. But these crowd sizes? We know how he feels about crowd sizes. That may get a little bit of his attention. Maybe he's watching the video. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Greg Cazar of Texas.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
He's the chair of the Progressive Caucus, and he was with Bernie Sanders and AOC at that rally in Tucson just yesterday. Now, Congressman, I just showed a bunch. I probably butchered some of the numbers there, but the point is tens of thousands of people are showing up at these rallies, which is tremendous.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
We've seen massive crowds at this Bernie Sanders fighting oligarchy tour, is what it's called, bigger than some of his presidential rallies. You were there. What was it like on the ground?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
The Supreme Court said he acted unconstitutionally, which would make any president mad, right? Even irate. But did Truman ignore them? Did he call for the justices to be impeached? Of course not. He immediately ordered the return of the steel mills to their owners, even though their workers immediately went on strike. That takes us to 1974.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
No question about it. And you're right. When we were talking about it, there were kind of, I would call them green shoots of hope out there, right? There were people showing up at town halls and asking questions. And it was like, what is this a sign of? How significant? And this is a whole different thing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I mean, one of the things that motivates, I think, is when Trump and people working in his administration say crazy, insane things like what Howard Lutnick said about Social Security. I mean, it kind of encapsulates, I think, why people are so angry right now. I mean, what did you hear when you heard it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And do you feel like that kind of thing and pointing it out to people could become part of the rallying cry?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Most of the majority, overwhelming majority of people attending these rallies are really excited and happy. There have been a couple of Democrats who have been who have received sort of, you know, frustrated responses from what they see in Washington. Not that it's the fault of some of these people who are showing up at them at all or the people members who are showing up.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
But obviously, there's a lot of anger right now in the party toward Chuck Schumer after his decision to back that Republican spending bill. And some Democrats have reportedly been voicing support for alternatives here, but also for Congressman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who you were just at a rally with, to primary him when he's up for reelection. Would you like to see that happen?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
The Supreme Court dealt a huge blow, of course, to President Nixon, ordering him to hand over the Watergate tapes. And Nixon complied, even though it was the nail in the coffin for his entire presidency. And I'm not excusing anything he did here, obviously. I'm making a different point. But he didn't call for the justices to step down. He actually stepped down himself.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Voters are pretty loud right now. I think they're a smart group to follow. Before I let you go, we don't have that much time left, but tell us, you've been doing these rallies. What's next for the House Progressive Caucus?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
No question. Showing up, answering questions, being present. That's a big part of being a representative, right? Representative is the job. That's right. That's literally the job. Thank you so much for joining me. I always enjoy talking to you. Really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And coming up today, Chuck Schumer rejected calls to step down as the Democratic leader in the Senate during an interview on Meet the Press. But I sure hope he's learned a couple of lessons for the fights that lie ahead, which is what we shall be focused on. I've got some thoughts about that when we come right back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Okay, so when something gets massively bungled, one of the best things you can do is figure out how to make sure it doesn't happen the same way again, right? It's kind of a life lesson thing. So as we look back on Chuck Schumer's decision to quickly cave to a Republican funding deal, I think there are quite a few lessons to take away. And most importantly, focus on what happens next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
First of all, there's a reason Nancy Pelosi reacted to the whole episode like this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Don't give away something for nothing is a pretty good guide for the strategy moving forward. I mean, we're all going to move forward here, but that's a pretty good guy. And when she said, which as she said, it's really about what comes next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
The question now, though, is how Democrats can avoid caving to Republican demands in the future, like massive cuts to Medicaid and SNAP benefits, while somehow leaving Republicans without any apparent political scrape on them at all from that. So to me, there are two big lessons from that recent funding fight. And the first one is this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Democratic leadership was assuming, seemed to be assuming, that Speaker Mike Johnson would fail. I mean, according to a number of Democrats I've spoken with over the last week, there was an assumption that the right flank of the Republican caucus might once again refuse to vote for the funding bill. I mean, that's what happened last September.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
He didn't really have a choice, resigning from office only two weeks later. Then there was the time in 2006, the Supreme Court ruled that President George W. Bush overstepped his authority in ordering war crime trials for detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Yes, true. But listen to how Bush responded to that ruling at a press conference that very same day.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
That would have given the Democrats leverage to negotiate. But that didn't happen. Problem is, there didn't seem to be, at least not clear to all of us, a plan for that not happening. So lesson one, don't assume Republican failure will save the day. I mean, this is the MAGA party. The MAGA leader is literally sitting in the White House.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And now even the usual Republican fringy holdouts seem to be willing to do whatever he says. The other assumption that was wrong was that staying quiet, pretty quiet, and keeping everything mostly behind the scenes was going to result in a better outcome.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
First of all, Schumer didn't even seem to keep the Democratic leader of the House, Hakeem Jeffries, fully in the loop, never mind his own caucus in the Senate. They could have held meetings with Democratic leadership in both chambers weeks in advance. They could have done that with the whole caucus.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
They could have developed a public strategy to back the Republicans in Congress into a tougher corner. But they didn't do that either. They could have pushed much harder for a totally clean bill publicly, one that didn't include any of the poisonous cuts that were in the final package. Doesn't mean they would have gotten that, but they would have helped win the public argument.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
They could have shouted that from the rooftops. And that would have allowed Democrats to at least put the blame on Republicans for the cuts that did end up in a final bill. And would have given Democrats in office or even those running for office or even those attending all these town halls more to use as rallying cries at these town halls and events. Republicans are trying to cut your Medicaid.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
We just want to keep the government open. Try that on for size. Not so bad. But instead, it all kind of felt like a surprise to most people, including in the Democratic caucus. And now lots of Democrats across the country are understandably pissed off. I was just talking to Congressman Kazar about this because they didn't see a plan to fight back. So in the end, Speaker Marietta Pelosi is right.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
No surprise. Schumer really did give up something for nothing. And Schumer seems to think that that's just inevitable. That's what he seems to be saying when you're the minority party in Congress.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Now, it's true, as Schumer said, the minority party, which is where the Democrats are in both the House and Senate, they don't have a lot of legislative leverage at all. But they need to create some leverage, different kinds of leverage. They may not have the majority, but they have the power of building public support.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I mean, 80,000 people have shown up to meetings held by Bernie Sanders and AOC over the last couple of days. There is public support. Lay out the strategy. Lay out what Republicans are trying to do and how it would impact people. And there are opportunities coming up to do just that. We can all move forward.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I mean, later this spring, Republicans are probably going to try and extend tax cuts for high-income individuals and corporations. And there will be another funding fight when this all expires in September, in the fall. And Democrats will need to take those lessons into those fights. Or they're going to get run over. And I don't just mean in Congress. I mean publicly.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Look, I know there's been a lot of focus on whether the Democratic leader thinks the country is in a constitutional crisis or not. It's an important question. Chuck Schumer started the week by saying we weren't, ended it by saying that we were. That's progress. But frankly, what matters more than how he labels it is what he's going to do about it and what he's going to do next time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
We'll be right back. In June of 2023, Chuck Schumer sat down with New York Times reporters Annie Carney and Luke Broadwater for their new book. Here's my hope, Schumer told them. After this election, when the Republican Party expels the turd of Donald Trump, it will go back to being the old Republican Party. Well, obviously, neither of those things happened.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And ever since Trump got back into office, this Republican Party has given up all sorts of congressional powers to serve him. They ignored the requirement for Trump to tell Congress about firing government watchdogs. They literally voted to give up their own power to serve as a check on Trump's tariffs. And they've all but ceded their constitutional spending power to Trump and Elon Musk.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
As for Chuck Schumer, to this day, he's still clinging to the hope that Republicans will come around somehow.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Guys, I don't know who needs to hear this. And Democrats may do very well in the 2026 election, but the old Republican Party is gone. It isn't coming back. Everyone needs to know that. Joining us now are Annie Carney and Luke Broadwater. They're both correspondents for The New York Times and authors of the brand new book coming out Tuesday. I have a galley copy here. I feel so special.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Madhouse, how Donald Trump, MAGA Mean Girls, a former used car salesman, a Florida Nepo baby, and a man with rats in his walls broke Congress. If that title doesn't want people to make people want to go out and order this book, I don't know what will. It's so topical right now because people, I think a lot of people are trying to understand, like, how the hell did we get here?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And what is the Republican Party coming back? And what is happening in a branch of government? You guys cover it every day. You wrote an entire book about it where there's chapters about individual members people need to understand. But let me start, I just want to start with Chuck Schumer because Thank you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Look, I'm not excusing anything that led to that ruling, but the point here is he said, I will conform with the findings of the court. Haven't heard a whole lot of that lately, have we? In 2016, the Supreme Court blocked President Obama's immigration plan that would have shielded as many as 5 million parents from being deported.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Do you think Democrats don't realize the Republican Party isn't going back to the normal Republican Party?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
There are so many examples, as I mentioned, just like chapters have focuses on different members, which kind of tells the story of some people's evolution. I mean, Ken Buck, who's a very conservative, was a very conservative member of Congress and then retired early. You talk about him in here. You talk about the evolution of Nancy Mason here. Why did you use those examples?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I think I know why, but I think they're particularly good ones to tell people at the party.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Telling examples. Ken Buck was one of the founders of the House Freedom Caucus, right? The farthest right caucus in the House. He has an AR-15 or had an AR-15 mounted.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Probably still does.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
On his office wall. This is a very conservative man. But he actually was too out of step with MAGA to survive in the current environment. Right. He ends up getting forced out of Congress, essentially, because he won't go along with the lies about January 6th. The other person at issue, Nancy Mace, there are several chapters dedicated to her evolution.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And she goes from being a Trump skeptic, sort of maybe a moderate voice in the House, to full-blown MAGA. And what's incredible about this, and she talked mostly to Annie for the book, was she sort of narrates her political evolution. She says out loud, I have no future if I stay anti-Trump in the Republican Party.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Congressman Greg Cazar joined them on stage yesterday in Arizona, and he's going to join me in just a few minutes. And later, the phrase conflict of interest doesn't even begin to describe what Elon Musk is up to. We'll talk about why Tesla is struggling big time right now and how Musk is trying to use his co-presidency to help it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And it would have also helped them find legal work in the United States. He was frustrated and he was upset, believe me. But he abided by the ruling. Then there was a time in 2022 when the Supreme Court blocked the Biden administration from enforcing its vaccine or testing requirements for large private companies. This was part of the height of COVID. Of course, Biden didn't agree with it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
That is not. We pulled this. I was just looking for the quote we pulled. I can't move. This is from your book. I can't move forward and move up and be anti-Trump. That's just not where the country is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
If I want to have a career going forward, then I have some decisions I have to make, which is literally telling people she's evolving for her own political survival, which is why it's such an interesting character to
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Let me ask you before I let you guys go. I know you're doing a million interviews. I'm so honored you're here first. People I mean, the question I often get is like, what happens now? Because there's this assumption of like, oh, if Trump when Trump ends his term, then they'll be on to something else, which I think is the wrong assumption.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And we're not going back to the Mitt Romney's probably leading the Republican Party. What do you tell people to that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Yeah, and I think that point is the point Chuck Schumer was making, right? He was saying that he called Trump in an interview for our book an evil sorcerer who had cast a spell over all these Republicans. But what we really found out reporting this book is that MAGA has become bigger and broader than Trump. Yes, he brought it to the party.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
But each member that we talked to has embraced MAGA and made it their own and kind of, in some cases, made it a more extreme version of MAGA than even Trump in some cases. And so I think if you think MAGA is going away at the end of this four years... You're misreading the Republican Party.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I got a bridge to sell you or something, maybe. Annie Carney, Luke Browder. Congratulations. Your book comes out Tuesday. Madhouse. People can preorder it now. If anybody out there watching is like, what the hell's happening with the Republican Party and how did we get here? It's a perfect book to read. Thank you both so much for joining me.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I really appreciate it. And coming up, just how far will Elon Musk go to save his struggling car company? I don't really know. I'm going to try to talk to you about it, though. We might have just gotten a big, scary hint. I'll explain when we come back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
So when Elon Musk isn't reposting fascist conspiracy theories, which he carves out a lot of time for, and when he's not targeting Social Security recipients or veterans or cancer and AIDS patients, he's actually acting as a CEO of multiple companies, remember? And guys, business has really not been great lately for one of them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
This week, Tesla had to recall nearly all of its Cybertrucks to repair panels that fell off. Protests and boycotts against Tesla have broken out all across the country in opposition to Musk and what he's doing to the federal government. And that anger at Musk isn't just here in the United States.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
In Germany, where Musk promoted a far-right political party, Tesla has seen a 76% drop in sales for the month compared to 2024. 76%. And in China, which is Tesla's second largest market and home to its largest production facility, the company is now being threatened by more efficient and affordable competition.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Believe me, he didn't agree with it. But here's what he said in response. The court has ruled that my administration cannot use the authority granted to it by Congress to require this measure. But that does not stop me from using my voice as president. Look, the point here is this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Now, considering all of that, you'd be right to guess that Tesla stock isn't exactly at its peak right now. But you still might be surprised to learn that Tesla shares have plunged a dropping 50% in just three months. And the stock is tanking despite the American government doing everything it can to prop Elon Musk up.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And yes, that effort included the president of the United States turning the White House front lawn into a Tesla dealership. And this week, that effort included the U.S. Commerce Secretary going on national television to tell people to buy Tesla stock.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
They are quite publicly and quite brazenly doing everything they can to help Elon Musk. And I guess the question is, just how far will they and Elon Musk go? Because a guy whose company is spiraling has managed to embed himself in our government in a way that remains truly shocking. I mean, he's free to move about wherever and access almost anything and whatever he wants.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
The New York Times reported Thursday that the Pentagon had set up a briefing for Musk on details of the U.S. plan in case of war with China. Now, it's pretty unclear why an unelected billionaire would ever need to receive a briefing like that. And after that report came out in the New York Times, administration officials then denied it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Even Donald Trump himself insisted that he didn't clear Musk to see any secret war plans. And he also explained why it would be a problem.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I mean, when Donald Trump can point to a conflict of interest, boy, it's probably a conflict of interest. And again, China is the second largest market for Tesla. And Tesla is not doing well there. So yeah, I'd say Elon Musk seeing top secret war plans with China might not be a great idea.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
It sure seems like they only backtracked in giving him that briefing after the New York Times reported on it. Which then begs the question, what else is Elon Musk trying to do that we actually don't know about? What are the things he's trying that the New York Times isn't exposing before he does it? That's a very scary question to think about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
There has been moments, there have been moments in just about every presidency, Republican presidents, Democratic presidents, when a court ruled against the guy sitting in the Oval Office. None of these presidents liked the outcome, but they abided by the court's decision. And right now, Donald Trump is doing the opposite.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
But what does seem clear is that a flailing billionaire with endless international interests is pushing himself as far as he can into every piece of the United States government. And at this point, I wouldn't put anything past him. We'll be right back. OK, that's going to do it for me today. But we're already working on a great show for tomorrow night. I'm really excited about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I'm going to be joined by Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, who's looking to chart a national path forward for Democrats as they try to counter Donald Trump. We'll talk about that. Plus, California Senator Adam Schiff is going to stop by to talk about the state of Democratic leadership in Washington right now. That's all coming up tomorrow night at 8 p.m.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
By any standard, it certainly appears that he and his administration deliberately violated a court order when they flew hundreds of Venezuelan immigrants to El Salvador to be imprisoned without any due process. That's what differentiates us as a country, by the way. And now they're stonewalling the judge, who's trying to find out if his order was willfully ignored.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
On Thursday, the judge accused the government of, quote, evading its obligations, saying their response had been willfully insufficient. And during a hearing on Friday, he put it like this. The government is not being terribly cooperative at this point. No kidding. And he also vowed to get to the bottom of whether they violated his order and who was responsible.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
This isn't just a squabble with the judge. The Trump administration is claiming, out loud by the way, that they're willing to defy a co-equal branch of government.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Of course the judge had every right to ask any questions he wanted, by the way. That's how the system works. This is the sound that we just heard of one branch of government basically giving the middle finger to another branch of government. That's what we're hearing. Trump and his administration are trying to overtake the courts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
They're trying to become the arbiters of the law so they don't have to abide by it. They're trying to upend the separation of powers that have been separate for hundreds of years for a reason. And this isn't one of those times when bucking tradition and breaking norms is a good thing. Sometimes it is. This is actually dangerous.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Threats against judges are on the rise in the form of, this is how it was described in the New York Times, bomb threats, anonymous calls to dispatch police SWAT teams to home addresses, even the delivery of pizzas, which is a seemingly innocuous prank, but one that carries a pretty clear message. They know where you and your family members live.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And the administration has now turned to targeting tourists and legal immigrants who have expressed views that the government believes to threaten national security and undermine foreign policy. That's their argument. That's the kind of thing that will keep happening as Trump tries to wipe a branch of government that is the last line of defense.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
So we can see there's a problem here, to state the obvious, and we're faced with some tough questions. I mean, what is the solution? And what is our system able to do? And again, those are tricky questions to answer because history, as I've noted here, doesn't exactly serve as a guide. Joining me now is Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He's the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
He is the perfect person to talk to about historical precedent, the moment we're in, all the things. So let me just start with kind of where I ended there. I mean, you've said there's an attack on the Constitution. That feels very clear here. I think a question a lot of people have is what can be done to stop it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
OK, so right now, just to sum it up, I know you all have been paying very close attention, but Donald Trump is ignoring court orders. He's attacking every aspect of the legal system, including law firms. And he's standing by as threats against judges continue to arise. And I just want to start by stating perhaps what sounds extremely obvious here. This is not normal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I mean, I would note to your point, I mean, Trump called Judge Boasberg a, quote, radical left lunatic, among other things. He's had a three decade long career. And apropos of nothing else, he was literally roommates with Justice Kavanaugh at Yale Law School. When you say people need to stand up.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Because part of what we're seeing here, especially in the case of these Venezuelan migrants, is people are—he's defying—he's ignoring the court order. So what does it mean? What can people actually do if he's ignoring what the judicial system is doing?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
No question. And that is one of the things I mentioned. It differentiates us. And it due processes, right, giving people the opportunity to defend themselves and to be participants in the court of law, which he's not allowing for. That's part of the violation.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
That's true, too. It's both. Let me ask, and you're the expert here. I'm just agreeing with you. Let me ask, so Judge Bosberg had a hearing on Friday. We all watched that. He said he will get to the bottom of whether the administration violated his order. I just gave a little outline of that. Tomorrow, the D.C. Circuit Court will hear the administration's appeal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And I mean by historical standards, too. I mean, ignoring a judge's order is not at all normal. Insulting and attacking a judge on social media or whatever form of communications there may have been at many points in history is not normal. And calling for a judge's impeachment simply because you didn't like their ruling is definitely not normal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
This story is really horrifying people for good reason. What should people expect? What happens next? What happens after this hearing on Monday? What are you looking and watching for?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
It's pretty startling. I have so many things I could ask you about, but I just want to know, because you were just telling me before this, you just did a town hall meeting in a Republican district yesterday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
You're saying eight or nine hundred people showed up. Really a powerful show. Are you going to do more of these moving forward?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you for explaining both the law to us and also being out there in all these districts. It's always great to see you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
And coming up, the crowd's turning out to see Bernie Sanders and AOC just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Congressman Greg Kazar was on stage with him yesterday at a massive rally in Arizona, and he's going to join me next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
I mean, look, lots of presidents have been mad at lots of judges in the past throughout history. I mean, throughout history, both presidents of both parties have had courts rule against them. But none of them acted like Donald Trump. Let's go back to 1952. President Truman seized control of steel mills to make sure there was continued production during the Korean War.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Listen, put that guy in an ad, Democrats. Blast it out on social media. Take that video on the campaign trail with you. Show it to your neighbors, your grandma, whomever. Because, yeah, that guy was Donald Trump's commerce secretary and multi-billionaire Howard Letnick, gabbing with two other rich guys about how only fraudsters will complain if they lose their Social Security checks.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
Guys, calling that out of touch would be kind of an understatement, but a huge understatement, maybe the understatement of the century, because obviously for millions of Americans, Social Security isn't a luxury. The difference between paying rent and being evicted, having groceries or not.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
But when an administration is stuck with guys like Donald Trump and Elon Musk and apparently Howard Lutnick, that kind of detachment from reality isn't a bug, seems to be more of a feature. And across the country, people are sending a very clear message. They don't like a bunch of billionaires screwing around with stuff they depend on.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Courting Disaster: Trump Attempts to Erode the Separation of Powers
On Thursday, over 3,000 people packed a venue in Las Vegas to see Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. That's the biggest crowd Sanders has ever drawn in Vegas, even bigger than when he was running for president. Then they headed to, and I said 3,000. It was more like 30,000, I think.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It was one of those Fridays where we have unfortunately become accustomed to in the age of Donald Trump. I mean, it was chaotic, it was bizarre at times, and at times it was very cruel. I mean, today a sitting mayor, the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, was arrested during a visit to an ICE facility. You may have seen that video. It was just released in the last hour.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It sounds like that's such an important note. And we're showing some of the footage here. People can see on the screen who are watching that the mayor was with protesters not on the property. He wasn't in any place where there should have been jurisdiction over arresting him anyway. I mean, he was he was there completely legally.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
You members of Congress have every right, I'll just restate, to visit ICE facilities. This is absolutely proper oversight, something that's been in place for many years. It sounds like what you're saying is there was a significant delay. I think you said an hour and a half for you to get into the facility.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And maybe during that time they were calling people and saying the mayor was outside or possibly. But it sounds like that's part of what you were saying. Is that right?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
But before we get to all of that, I actually want to start with a bit of a different headline today out of Newark, New Jersey. The headline is this. Radar screens at Newark Airport went black again overnight. And just before 4 a.m.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And he wasn't even trespassing. It doesn't sound like either from from your description. Even trespassing. Nope. Nope. Let me let me ask you one of the. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Congressman. Go ahead.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
this morning, air traffic control radar screens went black, just totally, completely dead for about 90 seconds, leaving air traffic controllers completely in the dark again. Because remember, this is the second time in just two weeks that air traffic controllers at Newark lost their only tool for preventing plane crashes.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
No question about that. We are going to keep talking about this story. I know my colleagues are and keep showing the video. The fact that they were masked, I think, is also just important to note. Congresswoman, I know you have had a long day. I appreciate that you were a mama bear with the mayor, it sounds like, too. I really appreciate you joining me and answering a lot of questions.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I know people out there watching had what we're hoping to learn more information about. Thank you again so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. We're going to take a very quick break, and we're going to continue this conversation with Obama White House veterans and Pod Save America co-host John Favreau and Tommy Vitor. We'll be right back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
That was, of course, Trump whisperer Stephen Miller today. I think everybody knows who he is, saying out loud what in any other time would be unthinkable, that a sitting U.S. president is considering taking away people's right to challenge their own imprisonment. I mean, that is everyone's right on U.S. soil, whether they're a citizen or not a citizen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
But apparently in Trump's world, it's a nice-to-have rather than a must-have. I mean, who knows? Joining me now are two guys I've known since we were all young campaign rats. And again, in the Obama White House, Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor, co-hosts of Pod Save America.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Well, I thought I would play a Stephen Miller video there because I know that would get you both particularly agitated on a Friday night, as it does for me. But we've been talking a little bit so far in the show, and I'm sure you two have been with each other, just about the series of events today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
You know, I mean, I woke up this morning and watched this video of this 16 year old girl having her head essentially slammed to the ground by ICE agents. You have finally a Tufts University student who was finally released after 45 days. You have the arrest of a Newark mayor. Stephen Miller's comments. It's just it sometimes feels not normalized, but like it's hard to keep up with.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And this, of course, comes on the heels of a series of aviation disasters and near misses during the first 100 days of the Trump administration. I mean, less than four months into the Trump's term, we're still less than four months, we also find ourselves in the middle of one of the worst measles outbreaks in this country, since we eradicated measles more than 25 years ago.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
But we've all spent time in White Houses. I've thought about this a lot. John, let me start with you. I mean, how do you look at this day and make sense of sort of what's going on in the Trump administration and how they're thinking about their rights, the rule of law and everything really at this moment?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And these members had every right to be there, as did the mayor. Tom, sometimes you and my guys may feel this way, too. I feel like I am a little gaslit, even though I pay attention to this for a living. I mean, I started the show also by talking a little bit about how Kash Patel, the FBI director, is only receiving briefings. Two mornings a week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And Tommy, you are a still national security nerd. I think it's safe to say. I described it as I mean, this is the person overseeing all of law enforcement. This is the person who these briefings often take dozens, if not hundreds of people to put them together to make sure these officials are most up to date. Help us or help us articulate here why this is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It's not a crisis today, but it is the kind of thing that creates a scenario for a crisis. That's how I see it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
More than 25 years ago, but we're now in a huge outbreak. And while we're at it, take a look at some of those headlines about what we can all expect from Trump's tariff policies. A lot of those are telling us how much costs are going to go up and what that's all going to mean for all of us. So we're just 109 days into this term. There is a growing public health crisis. People are afraid to fly.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
This is I started the show to just talking about how they seem kind of removed from their jobs as if they're observing the role of governing. The president is Trump is doing that. A lot of these cabinet officials are doing that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
There was this detail, John, that that it reminded me sort of of some things we've seen happen where there was a report that Pete Hegseth doesn't get approval of his own chief of staff, which is. That happens in administrations when the White House is sending a babysitter over to an agency. It's not just a Trump administration thing. That's what it tells me.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
What else about these cabinet officials? I mean, who should everybody be paying attention to more that is concerning, troubling as you're watching them?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
21, just so you have the stat, former Fox News hosts or contributors. No hack to cable hosts, but doesn't prepare you to run the Defense Department. This is about so much more than politics, which is why I wanted to start on some of the events of today. But you guys think about the politics a lot. And all of this sort of the president and cabinet members just kind of observing their jobs.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
A lot of things they're doing are very unpopular. Tariffs, we're seeing the impacts on costs. What have you guys, and you talk about this on your podcast, of course, but tell me, what do you think, what do you wish Democrats were doing right now that they're not doing to kind of take advantage of this moment in some ways?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Things are going up to cost more. We can all expect that. All because of the policies of the guys sitting in the Oval Office. This is all self-inflicted stuff, everyone. Now, no president wants to admit failure or take responsibility for the bad stuff, no matter who they are, Democratic or Republican, whether they caused it or not. But it's still an important part of the job.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Yeah. Also, these ICE officials, they were a number of them were masked, which I can't I find to be extremely strange. They deserve answers on that and so many things. And as you said, they were they were lying completely about what happened. Let me ask you just another political question. I mean, Axios is reporting that Trump's.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
cash flush operation, as they're calling it, which it is, they have lots of money, is running its first ad starting Monday with an ad that's basically urging Congress to support Trump's economic agenda. They have the money to do it. Others have done this. But what is that what it tells me is that they're worried about their economic numbers. But what is it, John, what does it tell you?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I'm going to let you both go because we actually now have the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, Roz Brackett, who just was released in the last hour waiting to talk to us. Thank you both so much. Mayor, it is it is great to see you. I know you have had quite a day. First, let me just ask you how you're doing right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Thank God for that. I know you're back with your family. I know you have been charged with trespassing, which just seems completely insane. We've seen the video. We just spoke with Congressman Bonnie Watson Coleman, who was there with you today. And she said you were on public property at the time of your arrest. She also said that you left the premises when officers asked you to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It's still an important part of leadership. And it's one that American presidents, Democratic presidents, Republican presidents have understood and accepted, that ultimately the buck stops with them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Were you told at all why you were charged with trespassing?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It certainly looked like that from watching. And I know there's lots of questions. I'm sure you have. We all have. Have you heard? Are those charges still pending? Have they been dropped? Have you been given any indication of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
That is, were you, let me ask you, I mean, just, you were detained for a couple of hours today. I mean, where were you detained after you were arrested?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Absolutely. I mean, you had, again, I'll just restate this, every right to be there. The delegation had every right to visit this facility. I know you've been trying to call attention to this facility and wanting the delegation to gain access to it, which they have every right to do. Tell us about why and what concerns you might have that you want people to be aware of.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
You know, you had a harrowing day, an absurd day today. I think a day that's really outraged a lot of people, including myself. Have you thought about taking any legal action in light of what took place today and what happened to you?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
If we learn more about that and how he's doing, we'll bring that to you. But Mayor Rasbaraka and members of Congress from New Jersey say they were there as part of an oversight visit, something that is very much allowed for members of Congress, something that has been allowed since the first Trump administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
They mentioned that. And one of the things that the congresswoman I spoke with alluded to is that she thinks they were tipped off, that perhaps they were tipped off to you coming. I don't know. Of course, this all needs to be looked into. But the nature of your arrest with masked members of ICE just felt, and we've all seen the video, I mean, incredibly suspect just watching it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
The buck stops with me. Of course it does, because you're the most powerful person in the world. You're the president of the United States. Unless, of course, your name is Donald J. Trump. I mean, he made that perfectly clear back during his first term. For Donald Trump, the buck stops with everybody. I mean, that was back when he was trying to duck responsibility for the 2019 government shutdown.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I don't know if you've seen Alina Haba's comments, and I can ask our team if they have them. We can perhaps play them. But to your point, the administration has been out there lying about what the members of Congress were there for and what you were there for. Have you seen any of what they've said publicly? It sounds like you have. I have.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Mayor Barack, I know you've had quite a long day before I let you go. Is there do you have any plans to go back to this ice facility or perhaps ask the governor or senators to go back tomorrow or the next day?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
No, go ahead. Continue. I just was going to just thank you and just really appreciate you taking the time tonight. Thank you so much. New York, New Jersey Mayor Raz Baraka. Appreciate you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Coming up, we're going to talk about the briefing that White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt had today. She told some whoppers. So after the break, I'm going to answer the same question she did, but actually tell the truth. That's next after a quick break. You may have noticed the White House briefing room has taken a bit of a bizarro turn lately. And I figured, what the hell?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It's a Friday night. Why not dust off the cobwebs and field a few questions from the White House press briefing room today? Because it's been a while. Of course, I'm going to answer them without the usual MAGA spin. So we got a few. They're actual questions from today. And we're going to start with Andrew Eggers from The Bulwark. All right, Andrew, let's hear what you got.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I love that he was reading it. Well, Andrew, here's the thing. This is all about the grift. Selling access to make himself and his adult sons richer is a key part of this presidency. And guess what? It's working. I mean, since that dinner you mentioned was announced, the surge of trading has brought in more than $1 million in fees for Trump, his family, and all their partners.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
They've all netted more than $320 million since Trump's coin debuted in January. So that's why he's planning to attend the dinner. The money for himself. That's a pretty easy one. Okay, we're going to take another one. Jackie Heinrich from Fox News.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Oh, Jackie. Well, the announcement and the headlines it generates are pretty much the point. The details are kind of secondary. I mean, Trump gets to put on a show in the Oval Office and pretend like he's achieved a monumental victory. The deal is just a bit of an empty shell.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I mean, you could, I guess, call it a framework, which is sort of generous, or agreement to negotiate more than anything else. But the 10 percent tariff on goods remains in place. And there are big remaining questions, huge ones, like any U.K. tax on digital services for the U.S., something that would have huge effects on American tech companies. And there are many more. OK, next question.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Stephen Nelson from The New York Post.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I would just note this reporter once asked me if the Bidens were going to put their dog down. But that aside, here's the answer to that question. Eric Adams is visiting because he owes his current freedom to the guy sitting in the White House.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
That's when he made those comments. I'm not actually sure what he means when he says the buck stops with literally everybody. Does everybody include me? Does it include you? Does it include everybody who has ever sat in the Oval Office? It's basically his opportunity or his effort to share the blame, blame it on anyone.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Let's stop pretending this is on the level like where the relationship is between a president and a New York City mayor just coordinating city business in a normal course of events. I mean, even the judge who allowed the case to be dropped said that it, quote, smacks of a bargain. Okay, we got time. We're having fun here. How about Nicole Killian from CBS News?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I mean, Nicole, I totally understand why you're confused here, but let me tell you the truth that they can't say from the podium right now. He does definitely not want them to increase taxes. And he'll be even less inclined once he hears from any number of his multimillionaire and even billionaire buddies who will hate this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
What he wants to be able to do is to say to some part of his political base, maybe working class voters, that he tried to get taxes raised on the highest income, at least a small portion of them, and then blame it on someone else for that failing while not taking the blame for the taxes going up. I mean, he may be conniving, but the guy knows how to read a poll.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
He also doesn't like angry phone calls from donors. So I guess, I mean, he's trying to walk a tightrope here, Nicole. OK, next question from Axios's Sophia Kai.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I love that you had to state in your question, Sophia, what they actually do, which is important for people to remember. But that's right. He did. And these people also inspect things like strollers and seatbelts. When you combine this with the impact the tariffs on China are going to have on the cost of things like strollers and car seats and toys and cribs, it's kind of hard to argue.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
They see the safety and affordability of these items as important. All right. I got time for one more. Chris McGurian from the Associated Press. Last one.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
All right, Chris, why did Trump abruptly fire Carla Hayden, the Librarian of Congress, who has served in her position, I would note, since 2016 and was confirmed by the Senate with bipartisan support in a vote of 74 to 18? Well, I'm going to use a visual aid. Here's a picture of her. I'll let you draw your own conclusions on why Trump and his administration decided to fire Carla Hayden.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And it turns out he has a pretty generous interpretation of who exactly is responsible for what happens on his watch.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I hope that was all clarifying. See you guys, just like riding a bike. I will be right back. That does it for me tonight. Rachel's back on Monday. We'll be back here on Tuesday at 9 p.m. Eastern.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
The good parts of the economy, yep, that was all me. The bad parts of the economy, the looming recession sparked by the tariffs I put in place, the negative growth, the rising cost projected because of the shortage of goods, that was the other guy.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
You know, the one who I inherited a booming economy from, including the lowest unemployment rate and the highest economic growth for an incoming president in 25 years. Yeah, that other guy. It's all his fault. There was also the growing number of concerns about air safety. Now, on that, as I mentioned, those have been on the rise. Trump, of course, says that it's all Joe Biden's fault, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Also, apparently, Pete Buttigieg. I mean, throw him in for good measure. I guess the two of them have been, I don't know, secretly advising Elon Musk to massively cut the FAA, to fire the vice chair of the NTSB, and to put a 90s reality TV star in charge of the transportation department. I'm sure that's what Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg have been up to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And then there are the parts of his job that he has just decided to completely shrug off. Like it's nothing to do with it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And after the mayor was arrested, there was an incredibly chaotic scene, you can see it there, in which members of Congress were basically in the middle of a scrum with masked ICE agents. A member of Congress who was there is going to join me live in just a few minutes. I just mentioned that and we're going to ask more questions about where things stand.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I mean, he doesn't know a lot. Deportations? That's up to DHS. When we deport someone by mistake, that's the Attorney General's jam. Not my problem. The Surgeon General? Bobby Kennedy seems to like him. Tariffs? Due process? The Constitution? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And the president's basically saying it's up to anyone else but him to set policy or solve problems in the country that he was elected to lead. Just today, he suggested that with tariffs, his defining policy that has upended the economy, he's going to go hands off on that one from now on. He says it's up to Scott B., as he calls him, which I guess is his pet name for the Treasury secretary.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Not really sure. Good luck. Clean up on aisle seven for poor Scott B. He said the same today about potential tax increases, admitting he wants nothing to do with it. He's leaving it up to Republicans in the House to solve that political headache on his behalf. This may sound like an incredibly obvious point. It kind of is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
It's not a good thing for the country to have a president who seems entirely uninterested in actually being the president. He's not the only one, though, who appears to be phoning it in. Just take a look at what members of his cabinet, the people he has selected to advise him and surround him, have been up to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
There's one particular report, NBC's Ken Delaney and reporter today, about how Trump's handpicked FBI director, Kash Patel, is also taking his hands off the wheel when it comes to actually being the FBI director. I mean, before Patel took over the FBI, the bureau used to hold briefings for the head of the agency every morning at 8.30 a.m. I mean, for good reason.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
The FBI director oversees all of the law enforcement in the country. There's never a shortage of things to be briefed on. They could probably be briefed all day long about everything happening.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Dozens, if not hundreds, of FBI intel officials compile these briefings overnight, often in order to ensure that the FBI director and other members of the national security team are fully up to speed on every single development. Akash Patel has decided to basically take a pass on these daily briefings, it seems. Instead, he's decided that he really only needs that briefing two days a week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Again, this is compiled by many people in the administration, intelligence officials and others, to make sure the person overseeing law enforcement knows what's happening. And when he does show up, Patel seems kind of bored, according to Delaney & Spies. Here's what it says.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
The two current FBI officials telling NBC News that Patel sometimes seemed uninterested in the material, and his intelligence briefers are struggling to craft a briefing that captures his attention. So sorry you're bored, FBI director, I guess. I mean, the FBI Director's Daily Brief contains some of the most sensitive information in the world about the country and threats it's facing.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Also today, a Tufts University student was released after spending 45 days, you can see her there after her release, 45 days in a Louisiana detention center simply for writing an op-ed. That's what she did. That's why she spent 45 days in this detention facility.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
But maybe Patel would prefer pictures or Cliff Notes or something else. I'm not sure. PowerPoint? Other officials told NBC News that the reason for the scheduling change is because Patel kept showing up late. Maybe he's tired from all the trips he's taking.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I mean, since becoming FBI director, and this is in part in Delaney's reporting as well, Patel has been to Nashville three times to visit his girlfriend, twice to Las Vegas, where he has a house, and also to New York so he could watch a hockey game, one of many sporting events, by the way, he's attended. All of those flights taken on the taxpayer's dime.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
One longtime associate of Kash Patel tried defending him, saying, quote, I've known Kash for a long time. The only thing he's doing late into the night is going to the gym. I mean, that's the best offender you can get. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's as reassuring as that friend thinks it is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Now, all of this may explain why the FBI director was apparently too busy to turn in his budget request on time before testifying yesterday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I mean, he's doing the best he can. It's a budget. It's a budget document she's asking for. It's due at the same time every year, pretty much. Is he really doing the best he can? We're going to have Ken Delaney in here live to talk about his big scoop coming up. So you will want to stick around for that. He's got more details. We'll talk about more of it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
But Kash Patel is also not the only cabinet official who seems to be distracted from their job responsibilities. There's also the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, who seems more worried about his public profile than doing his actual job. I mean, according to a former Pentagon official, he spends a full 50% of his time trying to flesh out leakers from his own department.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
This is the guy who was supposed to be overseeing the largest military in the world, 50% of his time fleshing out leaguers. And then there's the Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, who seems more interested in dressing up in costumes, I guess, than in actually doing her job. There are some of the examples there. I mean, why is she dressed up like a firefighter?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
That apparently or maybe was one of the things that made good old Stephen Miller pretty big mad because today he suggested that the administration is considering suspending people's right to challenge their own imprisonment. And White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt also gave a pretty bonkers briefing today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I don't know the answer to that question. But here's the point. Governing is not a photo op. It's a complicated and hard and often quite literally life or death situation for the people who live in this country. And I don't know why members of this cabinet seem uninterested in doing their jobs or uninterested in leading the agencies that they were nominated and confirmed to lead.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
I don't know if the president is just pretending to not know how the Constitution works or if he really has no idea. But I do know that both are bad. And that's important to keep reminding ourselves that neither is normal. Neither is this. Chaotic leadership causes chaotic events, like the sitting mayor of a major city being arrested at an ICE facility.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Our first guest tonight was right in the middle of it all. Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman was a member of the delegation visiting that facility. She joins me live in just 90 seconds. We've been following a shocking series of events that took place outside of a privately run immigration detention facility earlier today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
And at least four elected officials had attempted to gain access inside the building known as Delaney Hall, which is located in Newark, New Jersey. And one of those officials, Newark Mayor Raz Baraka, was handcuffed and arrested. And just within the last hour or so, after a massive public outcry, Newark Mayor Baraka was released.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Three other members of Congress were also present, Democratic Representatives Bonnie Watson Coleman, Rob Menendez, and LaMonica McIver, all from New Jersey. While the members of Congress were not arrested, video of the scuffle earlier today shows ICE officers pretty aggressively manhandling, well amassed, I would note, some of the lawmakers, including Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Joining me now by phone is Congressman Bonnie Watson Coleman. Thank you so much for being here with me. I know you've had quite a day to describe it one way. Let me first ask you, I know that the mayor has been released in the last hour. Have you had an opportunity to talk to him or heard any updates on how he's doing?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
We're happy to hear that. And I'm happy to hear that he's with his family. I watched an interview with you earlier and you mentioned, which of course makes sense, that you had reached out, I believe, through the senators of your state to some members of the administration to kind of find out exactly why they arrested the mayor who had every right to be there with the protesters.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
Is there anything you've heard back or anything you've learned?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'They obviously targeted me': Newark mayor describes chaotic arrest in confrontation at ICE facility
So a little later in the show, I'm going to go back to my roots, some of my roots, and field some of the same questions she was asked, but actually answer them truthfully. Not going to show you what she said. I'm going to show you what the questions were asked, because everybody wants to know what's actually happening out there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
That's such an interesting quote. I'm glad you brought it up. I mean, there were a lot of it's so important to talk about the inspiring things. I think there's a lot of dark things happening. One of the things that I thought was also very good this week was obviously Senator Van Hollen, your senator from your state going to El Salvador. He was able to meet with Abrego Garcia.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He also threatened before he went there. He threatened that they would be violating international—they were in violation of international law, which maybe that had an impact on Bukele and the government. Who knows?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But I'm curious, as you're watching that sort of activity and as we're seeing the Trump administration completely open and willing to send individuals, even American citizens potentially overseas, whether threatening or not threatening, but kind of— appealing to or focusing public messaging on the leaders who are doing this as part of what you think is effective here, part of what Van Hollen did.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you, as always, for joining me today. And coming up, some more ideas about pushing back on Donald Trump right now from someone with a very interesting perspective. Gary Kasparov, watch the threat of power-hungry dictators in Russia up close. He lived it, and he's coming up next. What's the best way to push back against a lawless president?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
So we've been talking about so far on the show, and it's sort of the question right now, in my view. And here's one idea from someone with a very interesting perspective, given his own history. He's basically saying we need to focus less on the specifics of what Trump is doing and more on how he's doing it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He says, quote, he writes, quote, the American opposition should spend less time criticizing the content of the administration's executive actions, eliciting sympathy for a deported individual, say, or decrying the impact of Trump's tariffs on 401k plans than focusing on its suspect methods.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
The real crisis is the lack of due process in the deportations to take the first example and the president's assumption of Congress's power to levy taxes to take the second. Sure, Trump loves tariffs, but he mostly loves exercising power. Spelling out these stakes every day, like Senator Cory Booker did in his record-breaking 25-hour speech at the beginning of the month, is vital.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Call hearings, press conferences, protests, everything that can be done to draw attention to the attacks on institutions. Don't let Elon Musk and his vandals pretend that what they are doing is about efficiency when their actions are a rounding error at best in the budget. The opposition needs to proudly defend the value system and ingenious framework that made this country great.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
This may sound corny to cynical Americans who have taken democracy for granted for most of their lives, but it matters. Well, that warning comes from someone who knows the threat of power-hungry dictators firsthand. Garry Kasparov retired at the height of his career as a world-renowned chess player to speak out against Vladimir Putin, and he paid a price.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He was forced into exile as his country slid further and further into dictatorship. And that's the point. We don't have to guess how this story ends. People who've lived it are telling us. And Gary Kasparov joins me now. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Your piece was really excellent. I just read a good chunk of it there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But I really wanted to talk to you because we've seen this playbook before as you make this point in your piece. And I wanted to just start by asking, I covered some of it, but when you look at the way Trump and Elon Musk are operating now, attacking critics, undermining checks and balances, going after the media, what parallels jump out at you the most?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And that's not right. That's definitely not right. And retaliation is real. We've seen it. Those fears are real. We all know that Trump is vindictive, and he's betting he can gain a lot of leverage by creating even more fear. But at the same time, we've already seen that giving in to his demands gets you absolutely nowhere. I mean, when law firms cave, the demands don't stop.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
It never ends. It's either mob bosses or authoritarian dictators, similar, similar types. I mean, one of the things I know you've seen and experienced is kind of the blind following by other leaders of a dictator. Right. It becomes people who may feel privately opposed and then they follow it. And we've seen that, unfortunately, with far too many in the Republican Party.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
There have been some cracks that I don't want to be naive, but I think we also have to look for this. I mean, Senator Lisa Murkowski started the show talking about this. One of the few remaining Republican Trump. critics, admitted, quote, we are all afraid, referring to whether Republicans can speak out against Trump.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Sometimes it feels like the GOP has fully surrendered, but sometimes there are cracks. But what do you see as meaningful cracks? Are there meaningful cracks forming against Trump within the party that has mainly blindly supported him?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
The firms that struck deals with Trump are now learning that the White House will effectively be choosing their pro bono clients for them. And when universities cave, the demands don't stop either. Columbia's deal with Trump might now include a court decree giving the White House control over the university's management. And when media outlets cave, the demands definitely don't stop.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I think we know the answer to that. I wanted to ask you before I let you go, and this has been so fascinating. You launched a new Substack. We love Substack. Everybody should follow you on Substack, along with the Renew Democracy Initiative.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I was just going to say that. And Anyone can find it on Substack. Now, in your launch, you write this is I agree with this so much. You write that the phrase threat to democracy has been used so often it started to lose its meaning. And we saw this actually in exit polls in from the November election, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And I think this is something the majority of the country feels strongly about the defense of democracy. But the term doesn't mean the same to people in the country. The phrasing. How do you how should people be talking about it? order to be more effective or continue to defend democracy that they believe in?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Gary Kasparov, thank you so much. You have a new sub stack. The next move, everybody to subscribe. Thank you for joining me so much. And coming up, we're going to talk about another topic. We haven't talked about RFK Jr. in a while, but this week he gave us several things to discuss, and I'm going to explain it all after a very quick break.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I mean, Paramount entered into settlement talks with Trump over a frivolous lawsuit, and Trump still pushed the FCC to revoke CBS's broadcast license. Point is this, capitulating to Trump won't save you. You'll just be targeted again and again. Because when you give in to Trump's demands, you're just sending the message his threats and tactics work. You're not putting the episode behind you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Make America healthy again. He's going to do it. But I mean, is he though? Because if that was actually RFK Jr. 's goal, there's definitely some stuff he could be doing right now. I mean, the CDC announced Friday that there are now 800 confirmed measles cases across 24 states. That's a 12% uptick from the week before.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And health experts are warning this could turn into the worst measles outbreak in decades. And this is one where we know what to do. The data is extremely clear when it comes to measles. Two doses of the vaccine is 97% effective. And health officials say 96% of this year's cases have occurred in people who aren't vaccinated or people with unknown vaccination status.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And yet, there's not been a robust messaging campaign from the federal government to promote the vaccine. This is from Reuters, quote, U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
pediatricians and infectious disease experts say the fight against rising measles cases nationwide is being hampered by a lack of forceful advocacy for vaccination from government health officials and statements on unproven treatments that are confusing parents. And if you've just been listening to the guy in charge of the nation's health, you'd have every right to be completely confused.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I mean, earlier this month, RFK Jr. actually traveled to West Texas, which is the epicenter of this measles outbreak. And afterwards, buried deep down in the lengthy post about his trip, he did include this line. The most effective way to prevent the spread of measles is the MMR vaccine, which is true.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But then a few hours later came another post in which he praised two vaccine skeptics using unproven treatments as two extraordinary healers. Now, for what it's worth, one of them had been treating kids while he was infected with the measles the week before. That's RFK Jr. 's extraordinary healer. Confused? Me too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
In the days following his trip to Texas, RFK also called the measles vaccine leaky and claimed it hasn't been safety tested, even though neither of those things are at all true. And so with measles cases on the rise and all of this mixed messaging around the vaccine, RFK Jr. held his first press conference as HHS secretary this week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And he could have used that first press conference since taking the job as an opportunity to clear things up, send clear public health information to the public. He could have used it as an opportunity to tell people that the measles vaccine is safe and effective. But of course, that's not what he did. Instead, he used it to talk about what he calls the autism epidemic.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He announced that scientists at HHS will be looking into environmental factors as a possible cause, claiming that he aims to find the cause by September.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
We know. It has to be. Well, actually, health experts don't agree with all of that. But it's not hard to see where this all is going, right? I mean, after all, this is a guy who for years promoted a debunked link between vaccines and autism and made money off of it, a lot of money. And this week, RFK Jr. said that, yes, vaccines are one of the things he's going to be looking at.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He's going to look at everything, but I think we know the answer he wants. I mean, the guy RFK Jr. put in charge of this investigation just so happens to be an anti-vaxxer who has long promoted false claims about the connection between vaccines and autism. That's the guy in charge of finding the cause of autism in the next few months, by September, by the way.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
You're just inviting more demands. That's how mob bosses work. And remember, fear is what Donald Trump sees as his most effective tool. In some ways, it's his only tool. Fear of retribution and fear of him weaponizing the powers of his office is basically what he relies on. And he's obviously relying on it to use that office in ways we've never seen before.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
What do you think his conclusion is going to be? So when infectious disease is spreading, vaccines are the key to stopping it. And we have an HHS secretary unwilling to forcefully promote them because that might get in the way of his real agenda. And who could have seen this coming? We'll be right back. So this week, the top U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
health official, I was just talking about this, yes, I am talking about the current HHS secretary, RFK Jr., continued to contradict scores of scientists and experts across the country. He called autism a preventable disease, contradicting many health experts. He blamed environmental toxins for the rise, contradicting CDC findings.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And he said the disorder destroys lives, contradicting many families and advocates for the community. It was offensive, unquestionably dismissive, completely disconnected from science and the medical community. And as per usual, he really just left us with a whole lot more questions than answers. So we're going to try to get to some of those answers on that and the measles and many other things.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And for that, I'm joined by Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the dean at Brown University School of Public Health and the former White House COVID-19 response coordinator. Now everybody's going to get to see when we work together how I could just go into your office and ask you all these health questions that my friends were texting me and asking me. I appreciate you being here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
No question about it. I mean, you are obviously very familiar with the pace of medical research, too, and scientific research. He's saying he's going to know the cause of autism by September. I mean, I'm concerned that that means he knows what he wants the outcome to be. But what do you think? And what are your concerns about that timeline?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I mean, he's trying to use the IRS of all places to target the nonprofit status of universities, which is the goal of making all nonprofit groups afraid of continuing the work that they are doing. He's trying to use immigration powers to make any non-citizen fear that he could change their legal status and force them out of the country at a moment's notice.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I want to ask you about measles. This is the question I think so many parents, my kids are little, so many people watching have grandkids and little kids. I mean, the CDC this week confirmed that cases rose to a total of 800 across 24 states in the U.S. The first case in Virginia was reported, I believe, yesterday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
The state where I live, neighboring countries like Canada and Mexico are also seeing outbreaks. I know there's been ups and downs with this before, but can you put into perspective for us how big of a deal the uptick in cases is? And what would be the message, if you were still in the White House, that people would need to hear? You can be their public health doctor right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Important for people to hear. Before I let you go, and this is maybe a hard or broad one, but I mean, they've been in office three months now. There's obviously been a lot of damage done in a lot of areas, in my view. But just how are you thinking about it in terms of the damage that's being done to our country's health system, research, fear of vaccines, wherever you want to go with it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But how do you think about it in terms of your biggest concerns?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Dr. Jha, thank you so much. Thank you for all the work you continue to do informing people out there. I really appreciate you joining me. I've got one more thing to tell you about before we go today. We're back after a very quick break. Okay, we're already working on a big show for tomorrow night. The great Bob Woodward is stopping by.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Yes, that Bob Woodward, the one who's investigative reporting, of course, top all-day sitting president. He understands White Houses, obviously, and how they function better than practically any other reporter in Washington. I last spoke to Bob right after the election in November, so it's safe to say we have a lot of catching up to do. And that's coming up tomorrow night at 8 p.m. Eastern time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
That's going to do it for me today. Happy Easter to those who celebrate.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Trump is using his office to instill fear in every single way he can. And he's doing it in a way that he thinks, at least, is politically smart. He thinks it is. He's trying to lure his political opponents into making this about just defending elite institutions like Harvard or big city law firms nobody's ever heard of.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He's spreading lies about Camaro Abrego Garcia, daring people to defend him personally rather than defending the rights he's been denied. And on the issue of Garcia specifically, some Democrats have said it's a distraction from the economic calamity he's caused. Some have said Camargo Garcia is an imperfect hero for this issue. Maybe he is saying it's playing on Trump's turf on immigration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But I actually wanted to start today by talking about fear, because fear is clearly a major driver of Trump's brand of politics, always has been. And how we all respond to that fear in this moment is going to determine a whole lot about the future of this country. Congressman Jamie Raskin summed it up pretty well in the New York Times this week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And Republicans really do think this is their turf. They really do. I mean, just listen to how Stephen Miller described this issue.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Sounds scary. I mean, 90-10? First of all, Stephen Miller needs a math class, I think we've all learned. But that's a big bluff from a little man and his sidekick. It's true that when pollsters are asked broad questions, when they ask broad questions to people out there about immigration and deportation broadly, Trump's policies do well.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But when those questions get more specific, and that's important, it's a totally different story. A YouGov poll this morning found that six in 10, this month, sorry, found six in 10 respondents said they opposed deporting immigrants without criminal convictions to El Salvador to be imprisoned without letting them challenge their deportation in court.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
61%, guys, that's a pretty clear majority, especially compared to the 26% of respondents who said they supported Trump's actions. It's not exactly 90-10 in Stephen Miller's favor on that one, is it? And we're seeing that on the ground in states across the country, too, even some pretty red states.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Just listen to the earful that Republican Senator Chuck Grassley got from an older, mostly white crowd in Iowa this week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Not sure that was what Senator Grassley was expecting from that town hall meeting in central Iowa. I mean, I guess people in central Iowa are a part of that 10% Stephen Miller was talking about. I mean, who knows? And I guess a Reagan appointed federal judges, too, in his calculation.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
In that federal judge's ruling upholding court decisions requiring the government to facilitate Abrego Garcia's return, Judge James Harvey Wilkinson III did not mince words exactly. He wrote, quote, It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it's not hard at all.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
He said, there's a regime of fear that's been brought down on society. People need to see leaders and organizers standing up and speaking with authority against what's happening. Congressman Jamie Raskin summed it up very well there. He's here today. We have a lot to talk about. We're going to talk to him in just a moment.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons. without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons. I mean, that is a pretty clear distillation of the issue here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Likewise, the Supreme Court dealt Trump another big setback just this weekend. In an order that they issued at 1 a.m. Saturday morning, making some of the judges cranky, the court temporarily blocked the administration from deporting another group of detainees to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act. That was a 7-2 decision by Donald Trump's ultra-conservative court. 7-2.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
So the courts seem to be standing up to him. Some Republicans are standing up to him. And the public is not exactly on his side either. And what's now becoming clear is there are actually rewards for standing up. It's morally right, but there are rewards too. I mean, after Harvard said it would stand up to Trump's demands, it saw an outpouring of support and an immediate surge in donation.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Donations. The pushback had enough of an effect on the Trump administration that they came up with a tortured process explanation, as the only way I can describe it, of how this all happened. With White House officials claiming the original demands were sent by mistake. Okay.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
So their decision to fight back not only shined a bright spotlight on Donald Trump's power grab, it also made his administration look kind of silly in the process. And any intention like that on any of the crazy stuff they're trying is a good thing right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
When Senator Cory Booker spoke for 25 hours on the Senate floor, it brought attention and news coverage and also made him a hero to Democrats because he wasn't consumed by fear. He just kind of let it rip for 25 hours.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
When Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez hit the road, they drew tens of thousands of people, if not more, at the rallies, not just in blue bastions like L.A., but in places like Tampa, Idaho, and Missoula, Montana. Even as staunch progressives, which they proudly are, they're appealing to people across the ideological spectrum because they don't fear fighting back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
More recently, Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland traveled to El Salvador this week and pressured the government there to give him a meeting with Camaro Abrego-Garcia. Not only did Van Hollen clearly take a stand, in the process he also proved and showed people that Abrego-Garcia was alive and forced the Salvadoran government to play a bit of defense.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
And since then, Van Hollen has commanded a ton of attention. I mean, this morning he did a round of five Sunday shows talking about his trip. So aside from the obvious moral reasons behind all of this pushback, and there are plenty of those, there's also a big political opportunity for anyone who's willing to take a stand. Look, on their own, any of these things might not seem like a huge deal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But taken together, all of this pushback is starting to matter. Yesterday, tens of thousands more people gathered across the country for another day of nationwide protests. They were called No Kings protests, a follow-up to the hands-off protests that drew millions into the streets just two weeks ago. But what will any of it translate to? Who knows?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But I also want to talk about a few other things, because this week we also saw at least one Republican acknowledge that fear too. I mean, during an event in Alaska this week, Senator Lisa Murkowski was asked what she would say to people who are afraid right now. And she was way more candid than I at least expected her to be.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
But standing up for what's right, trying some things, applying some pressure, getting some media attention is far more effective than being fearful and timid. Because being fearful and timid has never worked against this guy. And it sure isn't working now. Congressman Jamie Raskin is standing by, talked about all of this, and he joins me in just 90 seconds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
As promised, joining me now is Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin. He's the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. You all know him. I barely have to introduce him anymore. Everybody knows Jamie Raskin. It's great to see you. Thank you for joining me. I just wanted to start. I mean, there's a ton of things I want to ask you about. So much that's happened this week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I just wanted to start with this latest issue. Supreme Court order stopping more migrants from being deported. I mean, only two justices dissented, Alito and Thomas, no surprise. But I want to read part of Alito's dissent because I'm betting you're going to have some thoughts on this. So here it is. Quote,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Literally in the middle of the night, the court issued unprecedented and legally questionable relief without giving the lower courts a chance to rule. Without hearing from the opposing party within eight hours of receiving the application, the dubious factual support for its order and without providing any explanation for its order
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I refuse to join the court's order because we have no good reason to think that under the circumstances, issuing an order at midnight was necessary or appropriate. I mean, first of all, they were on literally already on the bus and going to be put on a plane and flown to a foreign country. So I think that's reason enough. We're showing exclusive NBC News video of the motorcade right there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Justice Alito seems cranky, I guess, is the one way to describe it, that it's past its bedtime. But what do you make of that and kind of this back and forth with the Supreme Court?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
That's such a good reminder of due process and who it's supposed to be for, which I think they're completely missing, as well as the 7-2 decision, which is important to remind people of because that's significant. A lot happened with the Supreme Court this week. I mean, this is a different case than the
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
After the Supreme Court upheld the district's court order that the administration facilitate his return to the United States, the White House, particularly Stephen Miller, tried to spin it by falsely claiming that the Supreme Court's order upholding a lower court's ruling was unlawful. He claimed they won, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I'm curious if you think, because they're human beings, these justices, if you think that impacted the decision to do this order, the specificity, I should say, of this order overnight on Friday night.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
OK, there is a lot of good stuff happening right now. We're seeing some real fight from Democratic lawmakers. That's good. We're seeing institutions stand up to Donald Trump. That's definitely good. We're seeing courts stop him in his tracks. That's great. And this weekend, we saw more massive protests all across the country.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
No question about it. And this week was full of that, too, which is why we wanted to start the show that way. The other point, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, I made is that there are repercussions to not standing up.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
I mean, universities that have not stood up, they've been informed that now the Trump administration thinks they're going to be involved in some of their programming and some of what they do as a school. The law firms have been told, or there's reporting that they've been told that they're going to decide what pro bono clients that they have to take on.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Fight or Flight: Why It Pays to Stand Up to Trump
Obviously, we've seen what's happened with the media. What do you think for people out there, whether it's institutions or universities or individuals who feel like I need to capitulate right now because I'm going to solve this problem and put it behind me? What do you wish they would know, knowing how Trump operates as you do?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR PODCAST, BUT I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK AND TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT. YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY GOVERNOR WITH A PODCAST, BUT IT IS AN INTERESTING THING TO DO. BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US. SO MANY OF THE THINGS HAPPENING HERE ARE IMPACTING PEOPLE IN YOUR STATE, AND THAT'S
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Promo always. Thank you, Governor. Still ahead, we've got new receipts about Elon Musk's cost-cutting efforts, and let's just say irony is still alive and well. Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry is the ranking member on the Doge subcommittee. Jen Palmieri is the former White House communications director under President Obama. Both of them join me next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Okay, remember when Elon Musk kicked off his big Doge adventure with some big promises about how much waste he was going to cut out? Well, first he claimed he was going to slash $2 trillion from the federal budget. That sounds like a lot. Then he quietly revised it down to $1 trillion.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And now the projection is down to $150 billion, a number, by the way, that we should all view with a heavy dose of skepticism since Doge's so-called wall of receipts has already been riddled with a lot of errors. BUT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO STILL TAKE MUSK AT HIS WORD, LET'S LOOK AT THE RESULTS SO FAR.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
ACCORDING TO NEW REPORTING FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, FEDERAL SPENDING IS ACTUALLY UP IN 2025, DESPITE ALL THE BUDGET CUTTING BUSTER. TRUMP HAS SPENT $154 BILLION MORE THAN PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD SPENT BY THIS TIME LAST YEAR. So what is the Republican plan moving forward?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Well, this week House Republicans passed a new budget blueprint in which they will extend tax cuts to billionaires and corporations, which costs a lot of money, by the way, and cut $1.5 trillion from the budget. But so far, they have offered no concrete plan to get there, because they know it's not possible without getting Medicaid, unless they want to gut the Defense Department, of course.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And they're trying very hard not to say that part out loud. Instead, Speaker Johnson claims he can hit that number by rooting out billions in waste, fraud and abuse from Medicaid. And Elon Musk has already showed us how good they are at that, hasn't he? Not good at all.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Now, the bottom line, as even Senate Republicans know, is that they are never going to hit the 1.5 trillion number without taking a substantial ax to Medicaid. And given he is leading the charge, here is some context about Mike Johnson you should all know. Almost 40 percent of his district is on Medicaid, his congressional district, the people who elected him.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
That's nearly 290,000 people, according to data from KFF Health News. In fact, a major rural hospital in his district remains open thanks in large part to Medicaid. And when KFF Health News spoke with two dozen Medicaid enrollees in his district, most of them said they had no idea Speaker Johnson's budget could put that very coverage at risk.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Because less than four hours after that post, Trump backpedaled on many of the tariffs, causing the market to surge as he knew it would. So anyone who took Trump's advice that morning that he posted on Truth Social could have made a whole lot of money. I mean, it was a pretty timely heads-up. And it also produced some very interesting television later that afternoon.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
So here's a little idea for Democrats before your next town halls. Now is probably a very good time to educate your voters in your neighboring Republican districts about what those Medicaid cuts could mean. Because what's on the chopping block isn't waste or fraud, obviously not. It's hospitals, it's nursing homes, and it's keeping people care within reach for so many people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Congressman Melanie Stansbury is the ranking member on the House Doge subcommittee. And Jen Palmieri is the former White House communications director under President Obama. And both of them join me now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
OK, Melanie, Congresswoman, I want to start with comments from Speaker Mike Johnson this morning on Medicaid cuts and get your thoughts, because this is just the claims they're making are just they don't pass the smell test. But let's play this and then we'll talk about it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Now, I just walked through some of my issues with Mike Johnson, of all the people making that argument. But I think it's so important for people to understand what's actually going to happen here potentially to Medicaid. So what does that tell you about where Republicans are heading on this? What can you tell people watching?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
The math just doesn't math sometimes with what Mike Johnson is saying. That's not a good messaging tactic. OK, Jen Palmieri, you and I have probably done a combined one zillion campaigns. This is the House is on recess this week. This is a time where people can go out to their districts or members who are not vulnerable can go to Republican districts. They can help people running.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
What should the message be in a clear and concise way on Medicaid cuts that you'd love to see Democrats doing this week?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD GOAL. I HOPE EVERYBODY IS LISTENING. CONGRESSWOMAN, YOU ARE AN INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE MESSENGER. YOU DO SOCIAL MEDIA VIDEOS. YOU'RE GREAT ON TV. I WAS SO LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING YOU ON TODAY. PROBABLY WHY I CALLED YOU MELANIE, NOT CONGRESSWOMAN AT FIRST. I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU. BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER ISSUE THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, TOO, WHICH IS SOCIAL SECURITY.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO A CAUSE FOR CONCERN AROUND SOCIAL SECURITY RIGHT NOW. AND I KNOW THERE'S A PLAN FOR DEMOCRATS TO GO OUT AND TALK ABOUT THIS. that the Social Security Administration plans to move all public communications to X, Twitter, whatever you want to call it. A platform, by the way, only 9% of seniors say they've ever used in their life, while also slashing regional office staff by 90%.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
How are you thinking about talking about the real-world impact of that on American seniors?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
CNBC's Melissa Lee, who you just saw there doing that interview, was kind of all of us on Wednesday. I mean, as it turns out, there were people who did make a ton of money on Wednesday. Well, certain people, at least, to be clear. Bloomberg actually crunched the numbers and found that the world's wealthiest people added $304 billion to their combined net worth on Wednesday. $304 billion.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Very well stated. Paul Mary, we only have about a minute left, but you're a professional. So let me just ask you, I mean, Social Security has kind of been the third rail for so many years, right? But there's a lot the congressman just referenced there. I mean, it's going after your private data. It's preventing seniors from having access. It's closing offices.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
What do you think if you're going to fine tune and focus on the one or two things, what are they as it relates to Social Security?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Congresswoman Melanie Sandsbury and Jennifer Palmieri, thank you both so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up, the Trump administration is blowing off a judge after a ruling from the Supreme Court. And if you're wondering, no, that is not normal. I'll explain when we come back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
THAT WAS DONALD TRUMP ON FRIDAY NIGHT BEING ASKED ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT'S THURSDAY NIGHT RULING IN THE CASE OF KILMAR ABRAMO GARCIA. HE'S THE MARYLAND FATHER WHO WAS DEPORTED WITHOUT A HEARING Now, keep in mind, the Trump administration has even admitted that his deportation was a mistake.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And then on Thursday evening, the Supreme Court issued a unanimous ruling instructing the government to facilitate Garcia's return home. The court also wrote that the government should be prepared to share what it can concerning the steps it has taken to bring him back. Well, the Trump administration has basically ignored all of that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
On Friday, the government ignored not one but two deadlines to give the federal judge overseeing the case any updates whatsoever. A lawyer for the Justice Department argued that it was too short a period of time to answer the judge's question about what steps they were taking to bring this man back. Really? And so the judge ordered daily 5 p.m.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
updates from the government and scheduled another hearing for Tuesday. That leads us to yesterday. Just after the 5 p.m. deadline, the government filed this three-sentence update, writing, quote, it is my understanding, based on official reporting from our embassy in San Salvador, that Abrego Garcia is currently being held in the terrorism confinement center in El Salvador.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
He is alive and secure in that facility. He is detained pursuant to the sovereign domestic authority of El Salvador. So basically, according to unnamed embassy officials, Garcia is alive inside El Salvador's mega prison. But notice that the government didn't give an update at all on what steps, if any, the Trump administration was taking to get a man they wrongfully deported back home.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
But they did make the point that he is, quote, detained pursuant to the sovereign domestic authority of El Salvador. Now, that language certainly suggests that the government is trying to shrug off the Supreme Court's ruling by essentially saying, look, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO. THEN LAST NIGHT DONALD TRUMP CONFIRMED THAT NOTHING WE CAN DO IS THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POSITION, IT SEEMS.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
They said it was the largest one-day gain in the history of the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. And look, there are a lot of questions about the timeline of these announcements and lawmakers are rightfully curious about who knew what and when and what they did with that information. A number of them have called for an investigation into possible insider trading to look into exactly that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
I MEAN, TRUMP POSTED LAST NIGHT ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAT THE MEN SENT TO THE FOREIGN PRISON WERE, QUOTE, NOW IN THE SOLE CUSTODY OF EL SALVADOR, A PROUD AND SOVEREIGN NATION, AND THEIR FUTURE IS UP TO THE PRESIDENT PUCHELLI AND HIS GOVERNMENT. Now, that obviously contradicts what he told reporters on Friday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Trump is saying that what happens to the men they deported, including Garcia, is up to El Salvador and not up to him, which, by the way, is quite a departure from respecting the Supreme Court's ruling to facilitate Garcia's return home. Let's be serious.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
I mean, if Trump can get his Homeland Security secretary into the prison in El Salvador for a photo op, which you can see there, and he certainly did do that, you'd think he might be able to do something to facilitate Garcia's return, right? Especially since El Salvador's president will literally be at the White House tomorrow.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
I mean, take a second to think about what it means if Trump continues to ignore the ruling, though, without pushback and what it tells us. It tells us the Trump administration can ship someone off to a foreign prison, admit in court that it was a mistake, have the Supreme Court then rule that they should fix their mistake,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
and then feel like they can just shrug its shoulders and say, nothing we can do. Look, the Trump administration's immigration action should open up all of our eyes to just how far he might be willing to go. And the truly scary part is we don't know the answer to that yet. But we sure are getting some clues. Our friend Andrew Weissman is standing by, and he joins me next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Right now, Donald Trump is obviously testing the legal system in ways we have never seen from a president. Would it seem like an ideal time, therefore, for the legal community in this country to have a bit of a backbone? Unfortunately, that's not exactly what we are seeing across the board.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
This week, five more large firms caved to threats from the White House and reached deals to provide a combined total of more than half a billion dollars in free legal services to conservative causes supported by Trump.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Now, in exchange for that capitulation, these firms hope to stave off executive orders that would make it more difficult to represent clients in federal courthouses and make them appear out of favor with the current administration for some. But not everyone is caving to Trump. Sussman Godfrey was one of the law firms hit by an executive order this week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
They're the firm that won a $787 million judgment for Dominion Voting Systems in their lawsuit against Fox News. And instead of giving in, they sued him. In their complaint, the firm wrote, quote, If President Trump's executive orders are allowed to stand, future presidents will face no constraint when they seek to retaliate against a different set of perceived foes.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
What for two centuries has been beyond the pale will become the new normal. Put simply, this could be any of us. Andrew Weissman is the former general counsel to the FBI and an MSNBC legal analyst, and he joins me now. Andrew, I have had so many questions as I've read all these stories, and you are, as always, the perfect person to talk to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
I kind of skim the surface of the reasons why a growing number of law firms are striking these deals. SO LET'S JUST START THERE. I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO JUSTIFY IT, JUST TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO AVOID THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT WOULD MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO ENTER FEDERAL BUILDINGS OR MAYBE OTHER REASONS.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
SOME OF THEM HAVE SAID THEY DON'T WANT TO APPEAR OUT OF FAVOR WITH THE CURRENT WHITE HOUSE. THAT'S BEEN IN SOME OF THE COMMUNICATIONS TO THEIR STAFFS. WHAT AM I MISSING IN TERMS OF THE CALCULATIONS IN THESE LAW FIRMS?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
But one thing we do know is that it was a good day for billionaires, a very good day. And I kid you not, you can't make it up sometimes, because two of those billionaires just happened to be with Trump in the Oval Office on that very same day. And as you can see for yourself, Trump was downright giddy is the only way to describe it, about just how much money they made, all thanks to him.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
HE'S LIKE VERY EXERCISED ABOUT THESE LAW FIRMS. I KNOW HIM A LITTLE BIT TO KNOW THAT. THAT'S THE BIG ONE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY ANY OF THEM WOULD CARE ABOUT BEING PERCEIVED AS BEING OUT OF FAVOR OR NOT BEING ABLE TO GET INTO FEDERAL COURSE. THEY NEED THEIR BUSINESS. THEY'RE BIG CORPORATE CLIENTS.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
The other piece that, you know, these numbers, it's like they don't mean a lot to people who haven't worked at law firms. There's an enormous number of hours, it seems, that they have all committed to doing pro bono. Every firm does pro bono work, but this seems like a lot for conservative causes.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
How are you reading what that might look like, what the parameters are for that, if we even know them?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Well, let me ask you about the other. I mentioned one of the firms. They're not the only one. There are a number of firms who are fighting this, who are also being targeted, as you said. What do you think their calculation is? Because I assume they're at risk of losing big corporate clients, but they're making a calculation to fight it. So how are they thinking about it?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Before I let you go, I could talk to you forever, as you know, but I wanted to ask you about the case of Kilmara Obrego-Garcia, who I was talking about before the break. What do you make—I talked a lot about the Trump administration's reaction to the Supreme Court's ruling or interpretation, whatever you want to call it. They're basically saying there's nothing they can do to bring him back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
They're putting him back on the president of El Salvador. What do you make of that interpretation of the Supreme Court's ruling on this?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Then on Wednesday, he abruptly pulled back on the most egregiously high tariffs on most countries for 90 days, but left a 10 percent tariff across the board on all of them. Then he jacked up tariffs on China to 145 percent before announcing an exemption for smartphones, flat screen TVs and semiconductors late Friday night.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
That who you saw in that video was Charles Schwab, that Charles Schwab, and Roger Penske, as in the Penske trucks you see on the highway. Trump says they made a combined total of more than $3 billion in a single day. So he bragged about enriching billionaires with them in the Oval Office. I'm sure you heard the chuckling in the background.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Andrew Weissman, thank you so much. And hi, Ennis. Thanks for joining us as well. We'll be right back. OK, we are already working on a great show for tomorrow night. House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries is going to join us. I'm really looking forward to that conversation. There's a lot to talk about. House is on recess. Lots they can talk about.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And you can see it right here tomorrow night at 8 p.m. Eastern. That's going to do it for me today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And then a communications advisor on his staff, I really can't get over this piece, thought it was a good idea to tweet that exchange out. So you can just imagine how pleased Trump is going to be if his tech CEO buddies cash in on Monday, which they probably will do because of those new exemptions on electronics, however temporary they may be.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
POINT IS, MOST AMERICANS ARE NERVOUSLY WATCHING THEIR 401Ks AS DONALD TRUMP TOYS WITH THE U.S. ECONOMY, AND SOME OF THE RICHEST PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY ARE CASHING IN. THIS SHOULD REALLY BE A SURPRISE, THOUGH, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP'S PRIORITY HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO REWARD PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY WEALTHY. THAT'S KIND OF BEEN A THEME. It's never been a big secret.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
But it does seem to be getting more blatant and more brazen. And then I want you to listen to something one Trump megadonor said this week. And when you listen to it, I just want you to keep in mind that this guy was saying this on a video in an effort to dunk on Democrats who did not give him the access he felt he deserved simply because he's rich.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
THERE'S NOT A SINGLE PERSON THERE YOU CAN'T GET ON THE PHONE. AGAIN, THAT'S A TRUMP MEGA DONOR LITERALLY PRAISING DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE HE CAN BUY ACCESS TO HIS TEAM IN A WAY HE NEVER COULD UNDER A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION. It's not really the sick burn that guy thinks it is, obviously.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
But look, while it's easier for billionaires like him to buy political favors, most people like you will have to pay more on almost everything you buy because tariffs are a tax on the American people. When a tariff makes a product more expensive, basically all of the added costs get passed to you, the consumer. That's just a fact.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
But regardless of that, Trump still appears to be in some form of denial.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
No matter how much he hates it, this still is a tax. And this isn't just some liberal talking point, by the way. Take a listen to some of these staunchest conservative Republicans in Washington.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
It's not even your average tax hike either, by the way. Tariffs are effectively a regressive tax, meaning the less money you have, the harder you get hit. Even after Trump's reversal, the tariffs on countries, including Brazil and Colombia, remain unchanged. And what that basically means is that the two biggest producers of U.S. coffee, Brazil and Colombia,
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And then it continued to get more confusing because just this morning, his commerce secretary said this quote is not like a permanent sort of exemption, whatever that means. So there's a little bit of a pattern here. He's going too far and then he's caving and it's all a little uncertain and murky.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Your daily cup or daily cups, if you're me, I should say, will most likely be getting more expensive because their tariffs on them remain in place. And the disruption could also make holiday shopping difficult. I know it's a while away, but here's what one toy company CEO told the Today Show on Thursday.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE. THERE ARE FEWER TOYS AND THEY ARE MORE EXPENSIVE. KEEP IN MIND, ALL OF THIS HAPPENED ON THE SAME WEEK, DURING THE SAME WEEK, WHEN HOUSE REPUBLICANS PASSED A BUDGET THAT COULD ALSO INCLUDE MASSIVE CUTS TO So, they're making everything from healthcare to holiday toys more expensive for most Americans.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And when Trump says what she keeps saying, it's a quote, great time to buy, that was his tweet, you have to ask yourself, great time for who exactly? Not most people. Now, the only silver lining here, if you could call it that, is that this is all being done in the light of day.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Billionaires yugging it up in the Oval Office about how much money Donald Trump made them, billionaires bragging about buying access to the White House, and the cost of living going up for everyone else, which people are living every day. Turns out people are taking notice, a lot of people, of course they are.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Millions have turned out at protests, shown up at town halls, and big rallies to demonstrate against what we've seen from this White House. And yesterday, Bernie Sanders and AOC held their latest fight oligarchy event, this one in Los Angeles. They said 36,000 people turned out for this rally. They also said it's the biggest crowd either of them have ever spoken to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And yeah, Bernie's message has kind of never been more relevant than it is right now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Across the country, voters are saying they need leaders who stand up for them, not for the billionaires. And more and more, it seems like lots of leaders across the country are listening. One of those leaders, Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, joins us right here next in just 90 seconds. As promised, joining me now is Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. Governor, great to see you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
But it's important to remember that even with all these walkbacks, prices on everything from clothes to toys to appliances are still going to be much higher for everyone. And in less than 90 days, Trump could have a brand-new chart with a brand-new fake equation, and we could be right back at square one.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Thank you so much for taking the time this morning. I WANT TO START WITH TARIFFS BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND IS HOW THIS IS IMPACTING PEOPLE EVERY DAY, PEOPLE IN STATES LIKE KENTUCKY. I JUST KIND OF TALKED THROUGH THE UNCERTAINTY PEOPLE MAY BE FEELING, THE KIND OF BACK AND FORTH WE'VE SEEN FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON THIS.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
PEOPLE MAY THINK IT'S ALL BEHIND THEM, BUT I WANT YOU TO JUST EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WATCHING WHAT THE UNCERTAINTY AND WHAT THE TARIFFS STILL IN PLACE, WHAT IMPACT THAT IS GOING TO HAVE AS YOU SEE IT ON THE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
That's strange bedfellows in politics, as they call it, Governor. Let me ask you about late Friday night, Trump signed an executive order exempting cell phones, computers, semiconductor chips and other electronics from these reciprocal tariffs. But then this morning, Commerce Secretary Howard Letnick said this is not like a permanent sort of exemption. I'm not asking you to explain that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
I don't know what he means by that. But WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF PEOPLE WATCHING RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE IN YOUR STATE, WHAT SHOULD THEY MAKE OF THESE EXEMPTIONS AND WHERE IT SORT OF SITS RIGHT NOW? BECAUSE THAT FELT LIKE A RELIEF BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT IT REALLY IS.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
The point being that, unfortunately, we are not quite out of the woods yet with all the tariffs. One of the things that really stuck out to me this week was how Trump announced his reversal on tariffs, or his semi-reversal, I should say. It all began Wednesday morning, when he issued something of a stock tip from the White House.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Well, it's been a hell of a ride for the U.S. economy over the last few weeks. I mean, this past week began with the stock market continuing its nosedive because of Donald Trump's kind of weird obsession with putting in place tariffs based on a completely made-up formula.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
Let me ask you, I think that's an important thing to note. A lot of the people who are benefiting from these are CEOs of tech companies who have been huge donors and suddenly they're getting exempted. Go figure. Let me ask you about Medicaid. This is an issue I think we all have to be paying a lot of attention to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
As I understand, you correct me on the statistics, but as I understand from what I've read, about 28% of people in Kentucky rely on Medicaid or approximately that. It's really important to your state, so many states. In the Republican budget in the House that they passed, there could be massive cuts to Medicaid, even though they seem to be denying that. What are you preparing for?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
And if that is part of the package, what impact could that have on the people of your state?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
You were a Democratic governor in a state that went overwhelmingly for Trump in the election. You talked to a lot of voters. Are you hearing buyer's remorse from people out there?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal
In all caps, he said, quote, this is a great time to buy, signing with his initials DJT. You can see it on the screen right there. He posted that at 9.37 in the morning, just right after the market opened. Of course, not everyone has a pile of cash sitting around. Most people don't. But for those who did, we now know that, yeah, that was an awfully good time to put money in the market.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
At this point, we are all pretty familiar with Trump's flood the zone strategy. I mean, we've all seen it. This is what he does all the time. Move fast, try to bend as many things as possible. Throw so much at us at all times, including some completely bizarre obsessions with renaming things, like lots of things, like the Gulf of Mexico, for example.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Now, after that, he then later went on to serve as a defense lawyer for several Trump supporters who were charged with attacking police officers during the insurrection. He was defending them. Once Trump named him a U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
The one of the, and Steph, you made this point to me earlier in a text, which I thought was interesting. I mean, he also seems to be getting a little skittish about tariffs. I mean, he talked today also about maybe reducing the 145% tariffs on China. He's kind of made some off and on comments about that. Do we think, and this is politics, this is the business community talking to him.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Where's that coming from?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
attorney in Washington, the first thing that Ed Martin did was dismiss the cases of about 1,600 Capitol rioters pardoned by Trump, including at least one whom Ed Martin still represented as a defense lawyer. One person he was defending. He helped pardon him. Then he set about demoting and firing federal prosecutors who had worked on those January 6th cases. That's what he did next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
That's an interesting, I mean, the other thing that happened today, a lot happened today. We haven't talked about the Pope, but let me ask you, Chris, I mean, he's pulled two nominees in two days. That's not a normal pace for any president, just to be clear. And that's after he managed to get problematic nominees like Pete Hegseth and RFK Jr. through the Senate.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I'm kind of obsessed with the Tom Tillis of this a little bit here because Tillis helped get Hegseth through and then he kind of killed the Ed Martin nomination. But what do you make? Do you think he's losing some mojo with Congress or you think it's just these particular nominees?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Chris Hayes, Stephanie Ruhle. We're going to have to come back. We'll talk about the big, beautiful bill that I suspect is going to be the small, less beautiful bill soon.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Coming up, we're going to talk about how very few people have been more successful at holding Donald Trump accountable than my next guest. New York Attorney General Letitia James is standing by. She and other state AGs have been dealing Trump defeat after defeat after defeat. And they held a big town hall tonight to talk about how they're fighting back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
We'll talk about all of it when we come back. OK, I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but I think it bears repeating. Courts have issued more than 200 orders stopping the Trump administration's actions since he took office. And a big reason for that is the work of Democratic attorneys general who have worked together to file 23 multi-state lawsuits against the Trump administration.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Trump's effort to gut birthright citizenship, state attorneys general won an order stopping that. The big OMB freezing fund, that funding freeze that briefly stopped all federal grants, a court stopped that too after state attorneys general sued.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
When Trump tried to gut funding to help low-income K-12 students, a court stopped that because of a lawsuit filed by, yes, guess who, I think you know at this point, state attorneys general. And these state AGs have also been spending time actually listening to people who are freaked out by Trump's agenda.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, tonight, New York Attorney General Letitia James hosted four other state attorneys general for a town hall event at SUNY Westchester Community College. Watch this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
He also tried to indict Chuck Schumer, an effort so weird and outlandish, he apparently couldn't even get Trump Justice Department officials to sign off on that one. Ed Martin also sent out sloppy, poorly worded, vaguely threatening letters aimed at members of Congress, protesters, journalists, even medical journals he decided he needed to target.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And joining me now is the quite fearless New York Attorney General Letitia James. It is great to see you. We played that clip of the town hall where you talked about all of the work you're doing. There's so much that you're doing and so much you're coordinating. And one of the things that you're trying to address and to stop is Trump's effort to get rid of birthright citizenship.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
You've been leading this effort that's going to the Supreme Court next week because the Trump administration is trying to overturn the injunction. Getting rid of, I mean, obviously, getting rid of birthright citizenship is pretty clearly not constitutional. I'm not a lawyer, but I think I can say that. But there's still a 6-3 court.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, as you're looking to next week, how confident are you that they are going to protect birthright citizenship, something you've been fighting to protect?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, one of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you tonight is I think the power of what Democratic attorneys general are doing, like you, is such an interesting force against the illegality of what the Trump administration is doing. And there's so many examples of this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I wanted to ask you, as I was looking at all the things you were doing, there was this report in Business Insider last week. that your office is looking at potential insider trading by the president's inner circle centered on last month's market roiling tariff policies. Now, this obviously is a topic that's gotten a lot of attention in the city of Washington, D.C.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
When asked about it, your spokesperson said you were looking at it. So I guess my question is, what's the latest? Are you looking at it? What might that look like?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
In other words, Trump seemed to be getting, I guess, I mean, exactly what he wanted out of one of his very first hires. Someone who would use the power Trump had bestowed on him to gleefully go after Trump's enemies and reward his friends. And Trump clearly really, really wanted Ed Martin in that top prosecutor job. And he seemed to really, really like having him there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
We will be watching that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
That is important for people to understand, too. I have to ask you, I mean, there were reports today that the Justice Department has launched a criminal investigation into real estate transactions that you're involved with. I'm not validating that in any way, but I wanted to just ask you if you've received a formal notice of that at this point.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And with Ed Martin's interim appointment coming to an end this month, all Trump had to do to keep Ed Martin there permanently was to get the Republican-controlled United States Senate to confirm him to that post. But today, Trump was basically forced to pull Ed Martin's nomination.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
There's no question anyone watching right now can feel your force and your fearlessness. And I think so many people are grateful for all the work you're doing to hold this administration to account through the law. New York Attorney General Letitia James, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I hope you'll come back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
We'll talk more about all of these cases that you've been working so hard on and coordinating with the other attorneys general out there in the country. Coming up, I'm going to talk about something else, which is Ivanka Trump, because she unveiled her latest pet project. And on behalf of Michelle Obama, I'd like a quick word. I'm going to explain what I'm talking about after a very quick break.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Remember Michelle Obama's Let's Move campaign? I remember it, which many of you do too, I'm sure, which champions healthier eating habits and exercise to help combat childhood obesity. I mean, to some, it represented the end of democracy as we know it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
It's all kind of hard to keep up with sometimes. I mean, that's the point, though. He wants to make it harder for us to figure out what's real and what's just Trumpian bluster. But one way to cut through some of that, I think, to figure out what's real, what he really cares about, what's going on in his head a little bit, is to go back to January 20th.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I don't need the government to fix obesity.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
They seem mad. Well, that was then. But now the Trump administration is talking about making America healthy again. Maha, as they say. And those same voices, literally some of the same voices are suddenly very concerned about American nutrition. And I'm sure that they will be thrilled that Ivanka Trump announced today that she is going into the business of expanding access to fresh produce.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Now, in a discussion today touting her business, she said, quote, food can be used medicinally and food can be used to heal our bodies. Food can be part of the solution. Yeah, I mean, a healthy diet is important. And it's good that folks seem to finally be on the same page that Americans should be eating healthier.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
But those same voices should probably make sure that Donald Trump is in the loop of sorts. And I'm not just talking about his McDonald's habit. I'm talking about the fact that his administration has targeted $1 billion in federal spending for schools and food banks to buy food from local farms and ranchers.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Money that would actually go to making fresh produce and healthier eating more accessible for more people. I mean, Trump and MagaWorld may scream, make America healthy again from the rooftops as many times as they want, but what they do is what actually matters. Coming up, we're going to talk about the big protests that are continuing to break out all across the country.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Now, he did acknowledge, which is true, that he was pulling the nomination because Martin didn't have enough support in the Senate, which again is controlled by the president's own party. Now, there's a lot of things to pull from and draw from as to what the final straw was here.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And with billionaires cashing in and working people getting hit hard, it really shouldn't come as a surprise. Congressman Greg Kazar and State Senator Mallory McMurray are two of the Democratic Party's brightest rising stars. They are both very skilled at channeling that energy on the ground, and they join me here at the table next. So these were the scenes out of New York City today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Several protesters were arrested after blocking the entrance to a fancy fundraising gala for a right-wing think tank called the Manhattan Institute. And as you can see here, their signs made it quite clear why they were protesting. Here's one sign. Migrants aren't robbing you. Billionaires are. It's pretty clear. Another was much larger and more explicit. You can see it right there on the screen.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
These billionaires are killing us. And this was Washington, D.C. today, a group of moms protesting with their kids right in front of the Capitol, holding signs with a very simple message, families over billionaires.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And that message that Trump's economy is deepening inequality has been a common theme at the protests and town halls all across the country, where a growing number of Americans have shown up with signs and bullhorns. And elected Democrats have been working to harness that energy and make clear that they are the ones standing up for them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Joining me now are two people who have been doing that quite effectively, Democratic Congressman Greg Cazar of Texas and Michigan State Senator Mallory McFarland Morrow. First of all, I'm going to take credit for you two meeting because I heard you at dinner before this. And for some reason in my mind, I thought every effective Democratic communicator, elected official knew each other.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
But now I'm happy you know each other.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Now we do. Now you've had lasagna. So let me start with you. I mean, you've both been campaigning and traveling around the country. You've said recently, a corpse is not an inspiring political leader. I think that's a T-shirt. Somebody should make it out there. But since you've been out there talking to people in red districts, when you meet with people, what do they want?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
They want fighters, but what else do they bring up to you that they want to see more from elected officials in Washington?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, it could have been the dozens and dozens of appearances on Russian state television that Ed Martin failed to tell senators about, and also did. Maybe it was the multiple podcast interviews and glowing praise Ed Martin gave to a January 6th rioter whom federal prosecutors described as a Nazi sympathizer, in part because of the photos of him with a literal Hitler mustache.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, you're running running for Senate. You're talking to people in Michigan all the time. You've been elected in Michigan, so you're not a creature of Washington in any way, shape or form. So you're actually talking to people all the time.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And one of the things that I've seen as an interesting shift, I mean, the policy of the Democratic Party are very much ones that stand up for and defend working people. But that's not what people are hearing. When you talk to people in Michigan, are they looking for a better understanding of what these policies are? Are they're saying they're not bold enough even when they understand them?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
One of the things you both have in common is you are not afraid to speak up for what you believe in, but I think you're also about expanding the tent of the party and eliminating kind of purity tests. I mean, this is something you've talked about. You've said similar things, too. What does that look like?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, what are the purity tests, as you look at them, that you think need to be eliminated in order to get more people to be a part of the movement?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
But to be clear, Trump still really liked Ed Martin. I mean, when he announced he was pulling his nomination today, the president said, quote, I just want to say, Ed is unbelievable. I mean, I guess that's one way to describe this guy. Don't worry about Ed Martin. He's going to land on his feet. Trump says he's going to install Martin in the Justice Department as what else?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I'm betting you agree with this a bit. But let me ask you this question, too, about purity tests, because I think that's not probably how you're running for Senate in Michigan. I know it's not. No. What is that when you hear? Because, you know, it's interesting. You're the head of the Progressive Caucus here and something you've said. What do you make of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
We don't have that much time left, but I'd love to hear from you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Everybody's going to want to come to the McMorrow-Kazar Dinner Club that I'm just going to advertise from here. Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it. Love always talking to you. We'll be right back. We're just going to take a quick break. That does it for me tonight. We're going to be back here tomorrow night at 9 p.m. Eastern.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I'm going to be joined by Pod Save America co-host Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram and TikTok. For now, goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
The pardon attorney, as well as directing some kind of investigation into the weaponization of government under the Biden regime, as it's described, whatever on earth that means. And then tonight, just in the last few hours, Trump announced he is naming a new interim D.C. U.S. attorney. I am not joking. I was not joking earlier.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I'm not joking now when I said he picked former Fox News host Jeanine Pirro. Shown right there, I know you know who she is. And for those who are keeping score at home, that will bring the number of Fox News personalities in Trump's administration to at least 21.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And that count might have even gotten higher if Trump had not also just polled his nominee for Surgeon General, a former Fox News contributor as well. Now, in her place, Trump says he is nominating a completely wackadoodle social media wellness influencer promoted by Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. What could possibly go wrong there?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
He was asked today about this nominee, his nominee, his new Surgeon General nominee with the person he supposedly wants in this job. And what he said to reporters is this. I don't know her. Man, I mean, this White House really is a well-oiled machine at all times. Never, never surprises you.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
This all comes, of course, after the Trump administration polled its nominee to be director of the CDC several weeks ago. Now, they yanked that nominee less than an hour before his Senate hearing was set to begin, when it became clear that he also didn't have enough support. And of course, who can forget the debacle of the Matt Gaetz nomination for attorney general? Who can forget that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, it basically collapsed under the weight of its own absurdity in just a couple of days. But it still happened. I mean, that was still one of the first things Trump did. But when it comes—just to come back to Ed Martin, when it comes to his demise as U.S. attorney in that nomination today, here's something I think is worth paying attention to.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, the man who appears to have sealed Ed Martin's fate is none other than North Carolina Republican Senator Tom Tillis. When Tom Tillis announced that he would vote against Martin, and this was rumored for days, but when he announced he was going to vote against him, the nomination was basically doomed. It's not also like Tom Tillis hasn't voted for Trump nominees before.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And what did Trump prioritize when he was sworn into office a second time? What did he care about? Enough to do immediately. Well, one of the first things he did, really pretty much the very first thing he did after taking the oath of office on January 20th, is he installed this guy as the top federal prosecutor in Washington, D.C., Now, the U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, even when he found them very objectionable. In fact, he's voted for all of them. You may also remember, and I did, that it was Tom Tillis' vote that saved the nomination of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Back in January, it looked like Hegseth's nomination might fail, and for good reason, obviously.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, he was a Fox News weekend host who had run two small nonprofits into the ground, been credibly accused by multiple sources of excessive drinking, and paid a settlement to a woman who accused him of rape. All of those things, although he denies all those allegations.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
But Senator Tillis was reportedly so disgusted, understandably, that he was working feverishly behind the scenes to kill the Hegseth nomination, including, and this is a big step for a Republican senator, by securing a sworn affidavit from Hegseth's former sister-in-law, alleging drunken and threatening behavior toward his ex-wife. It's a big step. You'd assume he'd oppose the nomination then.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
But then Trump threatened to back a primary challenger to Tillis in next year's election. And at the last minute, Tillis caved, giving us Defense Secretary Pete Hexa. Welcome, everyone. Signal chats and all. All the things that come with Pete Hexa. So that was January. Not that long ago. What's different now? Why couldn't Trump get Tom Tillis to vote for his day one handpicked D.C. prosecutor?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, maybe, maybe. Less than four months into his second term, Donald Trump just doesn't have the juice he had a few months ago. I mean, it's not just the nominations. That's part of it. It's been kind of a parade of failures, though.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, Trump has passed basically no legislation, though he did get Republicans in the House to pass a bill today renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. So I guess he has that. In his quiver, who knows? The one Republican who voted no actually called the bill juvenile, which sounds pretty accurate. He's also faring a little better in the courts.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, a new analysis from Bloomberg today found that Trump is losing in court far more than he's winning, by a lot, with his policies being stopped by courts more than 200 times. And the polls continue to be just brutal for a president barely 100 days into his term.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
The latest Economist YouGov poll finds Trump's approval underwater by 10 points, with 52 percent of Americans disapproving of the job he's doing. A full 75 percent of Americans think Trump's tariffs will increase the prices they pay.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And even among Republicans, I mean, just Republican poll respondents, the share who think tariffs will raise prices a lot has increased by eight points just in the past two weeks. Now, today in the Oval Office, a reporter asked the president his thoughts on his tariffs causing a slowdown in traffic into U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
ports and the thousands of dock workers and truck drivers who are now worried about their jobs as a result. Understandably, the president, in his response, appeared to think that's all great. I mean, he said, quote, in response, that means we lose less money. When I see that, that means we lose less money. Frankly, when I read this, I had to read it a couple times.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, I don't know who the we in that sentence is supposed to be. It's not the dock workers or the truck drivers. It's certainly not all the American consumers, people out there paying more for things. But at this point, we all know Donald Trump.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
We know what he does when things are going badly, when the polls aren't good, when nominations are blowing up, when he wants to try to change the narrative. He puts on a big show, announces some amazing deal as he brands it. And as we also know about Trump by now, the reality rarely lives up to the hype of the show. I mean, we got used to this during the first term, right?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Remember back in 2018 when Trump held a flashy photo op outside racing Wisconsin to announce a $10 billion investment for a new manufacturing plant? You can see him there with the golden shovels. I mean, those golden shovels he used in that groundbreaking ceremony proved to literally be just another shiny object waving around to help distract us and make us think something was happening.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Attorney's Office in Washington, as you probably know, is one of the most important, most powerful prosecutor's offices in the country. And for the last few years, it has been in charge of literally the largest criminal probe in American history, the investigation into the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
because the plan to actually build that large-scale plant was very quickly abandoned, and the 13,000 jobs Trump had promised never actually materialized. There was also Trump's phase one trade agreement with China, remember this, which was signed at the White House amid a whole lot of fanfare in January of 2020. You can see it there on the video.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Trump claimed that China would be spending an extra $200 billion buying American goods. I mean, that sounds good. But how much of that extra $200 billion in American goods did China actually buy? None. The answer is none. Zero. When the data eventually came out, it turned out that China had bought zero additional goods. He's been back at it in this term, too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
Remember when he threatened Mexico and Canada with 25% tariffs and then backed off those tariffs, claiming he had struck amazing deals with our neighbors, gotten them to agree to major concessions? Then it all turned out that Canada and Mexico were actually just doing stuff they had already planned to do. So there was that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
So it should really come as no surprise that the big breakthrough trade deal Trump announced with the UK today is not all it's cracked up to be. It's not really a trade deal at all. But that's not the point. The point is the show. My colleagues Chris Hayes and Stephanie Ruhl are standing by and they join me live in just 90 seconds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
OK, if I had a nerdy study group about politics and policy, I'd want these two to be in it. I guess they're sort of in it. We're all sort of in it. Chris Hayes is, of course, the host of All In. Stephanie Ruhl is the host of The 11th Hour. Thank you, Chris, for staying around. Thank you, Stephanie, for being around early. I want to start with you, Chris.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I watched your segment with Steve Leisman as he was describing this trade deal, not a trade deal, whatever we're calling it. Maybe we can redefine it. It was also a day where Jeanine Pirro reentered the chat. Trump made some strange comments in the Oval Office today. You talked about it and I talked about it. What did you make of today?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
And the moment Donald Trump took office again, he put a guy named Ed Martin in charge of that office. Now, Ed Martin has zero experience as a prosecutor. And he was also literally at the Capitol on January 6th. And he described it this way. He said it was great compared to Mardi Gras, of all things.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
I mean, one of the things, even though it's a fake trade deal, I love all these analogies. There's so many you could just make up about this case. And to Chris's point, it takes years to negotiate trade deals. But one of the things I was telling today to me, and you talked about this a little bit, Chris, is there were British luxury car makers and others who were kind of celebrating out there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
A bunch of people were celebrating like that. And then when Trump was asked about the dock workers and truck drivers who are worried about losing their jobs because imports from China have slowed, which is a huge real issue to Steph's points happening at the ports. He basically responded. That means we lose less money. I mean, it is a disconnection, maybe a misunderstanding of economics.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency
But what do you make of that? I.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
It's pretty clear there are two very different worlds right now. I mean, one world for Donald Trump and his family and his billionaire buddies and his cabinet secretaries, too. And the other for just about everybody else. I mean, just take a look at some of these headlines. Here's one. It reads, Trump wants a new plane. Now, so does Homeland Security Secretary Noem. I mean, who doesn't?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I really appreciate you joining me. I know you've had a very long day. Thank you so much for coming in and helping explain what happened this morning. I really appreciate it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
When we come back, we're going to talk about how the cockamamie legal theory about ending birthright citizenship that we've just been talking about can be traced back to none other than John Eastman, the same disgraced lawyer who tried to help Donald Trump overturn the 2020 election.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
John Eastman was actually outside the Supreme Court today, believe it or not, and so was Congressman Jamie Raskin, clearly for a very different reason. But Congressman Jamie Raskin joins me next.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Protesters turned out in absolute force today outside the Supreme Court as justices heard arguments in that case dealing with birthright citizenship that we've been talking about through the course of the show. And their messages were powerful and they were straightforward, very direct. Here's one sign. American-born children are American children. And here's another.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Let's maybe not create an underclass of babies. Good point. Birthright citizenship isn't a conditional privilege. So you can see that on that sign. Another one says birthright citizenship and immigrants make America great. One protester kept it even simpler, sharping onto some cardboard, if you were born here, you are an American citizen. That's on the brown cardboard.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
You can maybe see a little bit right there. It's as simple as that. But there was also someone outside the Supreme Court today who was representing a very different point of view. None other than John Eastman, the attorney, of course, who devised the bogus legal framework that Trump used in his attempt to overturn the 2020 election.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Now, Eastman has since been disbarred in California and his law license is also temporarily suspended in D.C. And yet he is now sort of relevant again as one of the big brains behind the Trump administration effort to scrap birthright citizenship in court.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Now, over two decades ago, Eastman filed a briefing in a 2004 case arguing that the Constitution did not actually guarantee birthright citizenship.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Here was the headline today for basically everybody else about tariffs. Walmart warns it will raise prices within weeks because of tariffs. That's right. The largest retailer in the United States, the biggest grocery store in the country, is warning customers that prices are going up because of Trump's tariffs.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Fast forward to last month, and Eastman filed a brief in support of the government's case, arguing this court should not only stay the universal injunctions issued by the lower courts, it should resolve the merits question and decide that there is no guarantee to birthright citizenship. Somehow in Trump world, the same cast of characters keeps popping up over and over again.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And if you've got a fringe legal theory, you'll always have an audience in this White House, it seems. Joining me now is someone who knows a whole lot about that cast of characters, Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. It's great to see you, Congressman. I'm just going to start.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
The John Eastman of this all, I mean, he is almost the perfect symbol of this notion in Trump's mind that he can basically do whatever he wants. You've kind of followed the guy for a long time. What do you make of his involvement here?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I was talking with the attorney general of New Jersey—and New Jersey is, of course, part of this case—about the fact that the Supreme Court wasn't even asked to rule on the merits of that. What do you make of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I mean, when was the last time you remember a company warning customers about a price hike? That tells you how bad this could be. But unfortunately, that's the world basically everybody else has to live in. And hey, maybe Pam Bonney shops at Walmart too. I can't really say. But the point is, this is all a pattern. They get luxury jets. We get delays, fear, maybe the measles.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
No question about it. I was reading about today—there seems to be this bill sponsored by Daryl Issa in the House. There's also a companion bill in the Senate that would restrict district judges from issuing nationwide injunctions. It seems to have the same objective, to take away this check on power for Donald Trump. It passed the House, I believe. I mean, what do you think of that?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Is that their goal? And it seems to be just kind of a unified effort to take away any checks whatsoever from any branch of government and just give them over to the executive branch.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
They avoid the pain of tariffs while everyone else pays more for groceries. And there's a similar dynamic playing out right now in our legal system. The Trump administration wants one set of rules for themselves, which is pretty much an evergreen statement about them, and an entirely different set of rules for basically everybody else.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Nationwide junta is not needed as often as they are with Trump, given all the things he does. Congressman Jamie Raskin, I always love talking to you. Thank you so much. And when we come back, we'll take a quick break. But my favorite headline of today was this in The HuffPost. Most transparent White House in history keeps majority of Trump's remarks secret. There we go.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Turns out the White House isn't posting a whole lot of transcripts of the president's public remarks. If you listen to some of his words salad in the Middle East today, and we're certainly going to talk about it, it's really not hard to see why. We're going to talk about it after a quick break.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I mean, I don't know what the difference between history and world history, what even the context of world history is supposed to be there. But you get the idea. Trump officials love, they love, they love to talk about how Trump is the most transparent president in history. I don't have to tell you that claim is bizarre a little bit. It's also kind of hilarious, given how wrong it is.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Now, here's the headline today from the HuffPost. Most transparent White House in history keeps majority of Trump's remarks secret. HuffPost reports that since Trump took office, the White House has published just 29 transcripts of the 146 public remarks Trump made in his first 100 days. Now, for all of you math nerds out there, that's less than 20% of the remarks he's made have been published.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
The White House hasn't actually published a Trump transcript in over two months. So why is the most transparent administration in history trying to hide what the most transparent president in history, apparently, or the world, says from the public? Why are they trying to hide it? Well, maybe it's because he keeps saying things like this.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
To be in the mind of the two people sitting next to Trump during those remarks, what were they thinking? So that was Donald Trump today. He was, of course, representing the United States of America on an official state visit to Qatar. To be clear, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy was not at this event, had absolutely nothing to do with it. This is a roundtable with military contractors.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Remember the first day of Trump's second term, which I know I am also trying to block out? But one of the first things Trump did was sign an executive order to end birthright citizenship. It was blatantly illegal. It was blatantly unconstitutional. Trump, of course, did it anyway. I guess he figured, why not unilaterally strip the right of citizenship from people who are born in this country?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And since we don't have an official transcript of those remarks from the White House, let me just read you some of that back to you. Here it is, quote, You hide behind a tree and the drone comes down and it circles you with fire. You don't have a chance. The tree comes down also, by the way. It's so intense.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I mean, you see these trees being knocked down like like they're being sawed down by a top of the line timberman like like, you know, who? John Duffy, the head of the Transportation Department, who's working right now on the airports and getting a system because Biden didn't do a thing for four years. And Pete Buttigieg was the head and he goes bicycle into work.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
OK, if you think I'm cherry picking the weirdest thing Trump said today or I'm leaving out words, trust you, I'm not. We played it for you. I read it for you. He also repeated his weird line about how the word groceries is an old fashioned term nobody uses anymore. And he inexplicably claimed Hitler gave a speech at the Eiffel Tower, which, of course, never happened.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Again, all of that was just today, which is to say nothing about all the strange things he said since taking office again.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
OK, so all of that goes a long way toward explaining why the Trump White House might not want an official record of all the things he said posted on the White House website and blasted out to reporters every time he's speaking. But here's the thing. These transcripts are not just some perfunctory thing that White Houses put out when they feel like.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I mean, for decades, presidents of both parties have had their public statements recorded and transcribed by nonpartisan civil servants who serve as stenographers. They literally travel with presidents everywhere they go. And the transcripts are then sent out to the full White House press list, typically within hours, and also posted on the White House website.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
It's an important part of what it means for an administration to be transparent, to make sure the press and the American public have an official record of remarks from the leader of the free world.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Now, when HuffPost asked the White House a pretty simple question about why they were publishing these transcripts so infrequently, they got this response from the ever-charming White House communications director, Stephen Chung. Here's what he said, quote, or here's part of what he said. You must be truly effing stupid if you think we're not transparent. Stop be clowning yourself.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
That's what he—guess what he figured. Now, within days, a federal judge blocked Trump's order. Then a second federal judge blocked the order. Then a third. Then a fourth federal judge. So four federal judges all across the country all agreed that Trump's executive order was illegal and unconstitutional. And what those judges did is put in place a nationwide injunction.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Think Stephen Chung may need some fresh air. Maybe he goes bicycle into work, as his boss might suggest. Coming up, you know that $400 million jet that Cutter gifted to Donald Trump? Turns out they've been trying to offload it for years. Lucky for them, an easy mark finally came along to take it off their hands. Senator Andy Kim has worked in the national security space for years.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I'm going to ask him about that brand new reporting when we come back.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
That was Donald Trump earlier today, gushing over his close relationship with Qatar. Never been stronger, he said. Now, considering how Trump treats other allies, it goes to show how far a $400 million jumbo can go, I guess. But there's a bit of an awkward backstory to that gift that he may not have been tracking at the moment, maybe is now.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Because Forbes is now reporting the royal family of Qatar has been trying to dump the plane for a while. According to an archive listing, the plane was actually put on the market back in 2020, but didn't sell, suggesting that Qatar may have decided to unload it on Trump to save themselves the cost of maintenance and storage.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And that's consistent with the fact that Qatar has been moving away from these jumbo jets because they're bad on fuel efficiency and there's security risks of planes that size. And the fact that bigger planes also require longer runways. So why not offload the enormous and expensive hand-me-down to the easiest mark you can find? That's, I guess, what they did.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Joining me now is Democratic New Jersey Senator Andy Kim. Before getting to the Senate, he worked on the National Security Councils for Presidents Bush and Obama. It's great to see you. So much to talk to you about. I want to start with, there's a lot to be said about the plane, but I wanted to ask you about something some of your Senate colleagues are pushing for.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Because Senator Chris Murphy and a group of Senate Democrats moved today to block $3.5 billion worth of arms sales to Qatar and the UAE. And Senator Murphy said this about the plane. He said, this isn't a gift out of the goodness of their hearts. It's an illegal bribe. Unless Qatar rescinds their offer of a palace in the sky or Trump turns it down, I will move to block the arms sale.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
That's right. It's not just Trump and his $400 million jet from Qatar. Not just that one. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem already has access to a Gulfstream jet paid for by the government, by the way. She wants a new one. Why wouldn't she? A plane that a top Democratic lawmaker says would actually cost the U.S. taxpayers roughly $50 million.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I mean, you worked in national security for a long time before you were a senator. Do you agree with that? And do you support this move to block $3.5 billion in arms sales?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And I mean, that makes total sense. I think a lot of people agree with you on that. Even Republicans have said that. We'll see how they act. That's the most important thing. But do you think this move to block the three point five billion dollars in arms sales is the right move? Is that something you'd support?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And that means that even though these judges made their rulings from courts in Washington state, in Maryland, in New Hampshire, in Massachusetts, their rulings didn't just apply to those states. They blocked Trump's order nationwide. Now, Trump can appeal those decisions. He is appealing those decisions.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
No question about it. I wanted to ask you about because there's so much to cover and sometimes it's important to lift up these stories that may seem obscure. There was this story in ProPublica today and it was about the State Department, Elon Musk. And I was according to the reporting, the U.S. ambassador to Gambia essentially subtly threatened to cut aid and projects the U.S.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
was sending to the country if they didn't facilitate approvals to Musk's. Now, last week, The Washington Post had a similar story about another country in Africa. And this is a pattern of Musk pushing his business interests through diplomatic channels. It's setting, in my view, a very dangerous precedent. I'm sure in yours, too. But you've worked in these spaces a lot. I mean, it's very abnormal.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Right. What can be done to stop that kind of effort to push the. business interests of one of Trump's buddies through diplomatic channels.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
But he doesn't want to wait for those appeals to be heard on their merits because this isn't just about birthright citizenship at all. I mean, Trump wants the whole concept of nationwide injunctions, which is any ability of lower courts to put a stop to his illegal actions, gone altogether, completely gone.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Senator Andy Kim, we didn't even get to all of the things happening in New Jersey. I hope you'll come back. We'll talk about all of them, everything going on in your state. I had to take advantage of your national security expertise with everything going on. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Of course.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Coming up, Elon Musk and the Doge Boys have been on the hunt for massive fraud of Social Security. We've been hearing about this a lot. Well, the results are in and you're never going to believe what they found. We'll be right back. All right. Before we go, it's time for a quick progress report on one of Donald Trump and his best buddy, Elon Musk's favorite pet projects.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
That is uncovering supposed fraud in Social Security, especially when it comes to their phone lines. I mean, remember, Musk claims 40 percent of all calls into Social Security are made by fraudsters. Forty percent. That's what he claims. And so last month, the Social Security Administration set out to catch all these fraudsters and installed anti-fraud checks for all claims made over the phone.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And guess what? The results are in. Since then, they've received over 110,000 calls. And their fancy new fraud-catching software found... Drum roll, please. Two. Two. That's right. According to an internal document obtained by NextGov, under the new policy, the agency found that only two benefit claims out of over 110,000 had a high probability of being fraudulent.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And they aren't guaranteed to be so. If my math's correct, that totals to 0.0018%. Not exactly 40%, but who's counting? Well, we are. That's why we had to share this. And even better, they managed to slow down retirement claim processing by 25 percent along the way, leading to, quote, a degradation of public service. Great job, team. Helpful and efficient as usual. That does it for me today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram and TikTok. For now, goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
So today, Trump's solicitor general was at the Supreme Court this morning arguing that no matter how unconstitutional, No matter how illegal an order of the president is, judges shouldn't be able to stop them nationwide. Basically, there should not be that check on his power at all. That's their argument.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Instead, the way the Trump administration is proposing the law should work is that every individual who could be impacted by any government policy, no matter how illegal, no matter how unconstitutional, every single person should have to go to court to defend themselves, one by one. If they can't find a lawyer, too bad, and that's quite likely.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
If they can't afford a lawyer, also very likely, too bad. That's their argument. And here's how some of the liberal justices on the Supreme Court summed up Trump's position today.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Now, I don't speak legalese exactly, so I'm hoping if I'm wrong here, any of our guests can correct me. But Trump's solicitor general essentially responded to that gun hypothetical by saying, no, no, no. When it's guns, that's a totally different deal. Again, I mean, it's one set of rules for them and it's an entirely different set of rules for everybody else.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
The thing is, we really don't even have to make up hypotheticals. Nationwide injunctions have been around for a very long time, and both parties love to use them. When Joe Biden was in office, conservatives did what is referred to as judge shopping, and that basically means filing cases in areas of the country where they think the judges will agree with them.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
You probably remember when a federal judge in Texas suspended the FDA approval of the abortion pill Mifepristone, or when a federal judge in Texas blocked workplace anti-discrimination rights for transgender Americans, or when a federal judge in Texas blocked the Biden administration from ending Trump's Remain in Mexico policy.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
All of those rulings were nationwide injunctions, and all of them came from one single, incredibly conservative judge, Judge Shopping. didn't seem to have any issues with nationwide injunctions back then. They shopped for the person who would do them. But now that Trump is in power, it's an entirely different story. And look, Democrats use nationwide injunctions too.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
So that's how Trump and Kristi Noem think they deserve to travel and navigate the skies. Now, here's the headline from today that applies to, I guess, the rest of us. Denver air traffic control went dark for 90 seconds. And here's another one. Newark airport passengers warned of possible measles exposure by New Jersey health officials. So Trump and Kristi Noem are basically demanding new planes.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
You might remember that a nationwide injunction is what blocked Trump's travel ban at the very beginning of his first term. National injunctions are kind of a double-edged sword. I mean, figuring out how to prevent individual radical judges at lower-level courts from unilaterally shaping U.S. policy and U.S. law nationwide is a bipartisan concern. People from both parties want reform there.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
But there is a big, huge, enormous freaking Trump factor to consider here. When George Bush, just to put this in perspective, in these numbers I read this morning, and I thought they made the point very clearly. When George W. Bush was in office, federal judges issued just six nationwide injunctions against his policies, total, over two terms.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
federal judges issued 12 against Obama during his two terms and 14 against Biden. In Trump's first term, federal judges issued 64 injunctions. In the 116 days Trump has been in office this term, he's already at 39. That's quite a pace.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And right now, nationwide injunctions are also the only thing blocking the Trump administration's attempt to do everything from end the temporary protected status for Venezuelan migrants, withholding federal money from schools that have diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, freezing all federal grants distributed by the entire federal government altogether.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Trump orders his administration to do illegal and unconstitutional things at a pace and scale we have literally never seen before from a president. So if the Supreme Court does what Trump wants and gets rid of nationwide injunctions, that check on his power, a very important check on his power, would be gone. Now, like I said, the Biden administration faced its own share of nationwide injunctions.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
President Biden disagreed with a lot of them. He said so, but he did abide by them. He appealed the decisions and let the process play out in the courts. But in an absolutely jaw-dropping moment, I have no other way to describe it, at the Supreme Court today, Trump's Solicitor General said that that might not always be how the Trump administration does it.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
They might follow court orders, they might not. Depends if they agree.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Not necessarily in every case. So that was conservative justice Amy Coney Barrett, one of the more interesting people on the Supreme Court, who seemingly responded in complete disbelief at what the president's lawyer was saying. They'll follow the law generally. As the old saying goes, for my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
We've got a lot to chew over, clearly, and New Jersey Attorney General Matt Platkin, who was central to this case before the Supreme Court today, joins me in just 90 seconds.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
And I guess, I mean, the rest of us are just hoping we land safely and also avoid infectious diseases in the process. That's, I guess, what's happening right now. And then there were Trump's tariffs. ProPublica just broke the news that on the day Trump announced his sweeping tariffs, Attorney General Pam Bondi sold between $1 and $5 million of Trump media stocks. $1 and $5 million.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
So as we've been talking about all show, I mean, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments this morning on a case concerning birthright citizenship. And New Jersey State Attorney General Matthew Plattkin, one of the plaintiffs in that case, was in the courtroom. He joins me now. It's great to see you. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. So I listened to the hearings this morning.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
I just gave a summary of it. But you were in the room. And I just wanted to ask you, what struck you about the conversations and about some of the reactions from the justices?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Yeah. And I talked about this a bit in that they want to get rid of nationwide injunctions because they don't want there to be the check on them and the check on the system. Explain to us. I tried to explain it there, but you're actually a legal expert. What the risk of that is and what the impact is on could be on the American people.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
It's creating two societies, essentially. I mean, it's abortion rights. It's what rights you have if you're born here and what state you're born in. I mean, one of the things that's striking is that the Supreme Court was not asked to rule on the merits of birthright citizenship. at all. So when people shorthand this as a birthright citizenship, it is about that.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
But is that pretty telling in terms of how the government is approaching it, right?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
That's a lot of money, wherever it falls in there. You probably don't need me to remind you of how the stock market plummeted right after Trump announced those tariffs.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
You are the attorney general from New Jersey, a state where there's a lot going on. We had Senator Booker on last night. We're going to have Senator Andy Kim on tonight. That tells you a lot. I wanted to ask you, I mean, I think we all watched in kind of horror as the mayor of Newark was arrested on Friday, as three members of Congress were kind of caught in the scuffle.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
DHS is threatening to arrest DHS. Some of these House Democrats will see what happens there. This isn't under your purview per se exactly, but I just wanted to ask, I mean, you work with federal law enforcement a lot. You work with these law enforcement officials a lot. Has anything, how have your, has your relationship changed?
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
So the stock Bondi sold fell 13% in the days after she sold it, which considering she sold somewhere again in the ballpark of $1 to $5 million, which is quite a range, but it's a lot of money regardless of what it is, it means Attorney General Bondi avoided quite the haircut by doing that. So that was the headline for Pam Bondi, the Attorney General.
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's power grab scheme exposed; Supreme Court birthright citizenship case focuses on court powers
Has your relationship changed over the course of the last couple of days since this happened on Friday?
The Dan Bongino Show
What Did Zelensky Know? When Did He Know It? (Ep. 2426)
Well, I will say broadly speaking, what Democrat, I don't think it's a Democrats. I'm going to say people on the left do not do that. The right does very well is support within the system, each other. I'm serious. And what I mean by this is this, right? Theo Vaughn appears on Joe Rogan's show, right?
The Dan Bongino Show
What Did Zelensky Know? When Did He Know It? (Ep. 2426)
He promotes what Joe Rogan's doing, but they all promote all of the things each other are doing and what the elected officials, I guess, are doing too. And the left is a little bit more kind of discombobulated in terms of supporting the different entities on the left. There is not a left ecosystem that matches the right ecosystem.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Vulgar Met Gala, Jen Psaki's Cover-up Lies, and Trump vs. Harvard, with Stu Burguiere and Kevin Roberts | Ep. 1065
I left in May of 2022, just for the facts here. And I have seen Biden once since then, when I took my daughter to the holiday party this last December after he had lost. And so I hadn't seen him in person during that period of time. In person. I never saw that person, not a single time. And I was in the Oval Office every day. That was on that debate stage. I'm not a doctor.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Vulgar Met Gala, Jen Psaki's Cover-up Lies, and Trump vs. Harvard, with Stu Burguiere and Kevin Roberts | Ep. 1065
Aging happens quite quickly. Were things that people saw during that period of time that were similar to that or would have been in a category of that? I don't know. Possibly.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Vulgar Met Gala, Jen Psaki's Cover-up Lies, and Trump vs. Harvard, with Stu Burguiere and Kevin Roberts | Ep. 1065
Cover up is a very loaded term. Cover up is often like a crime. Right. We're talking with people use that.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Vulgar Met Gala, Jen Psaki's Cover-up Lies, and Trump vs. Harvard, with Stu Burguiere and Kevin Roberts | Ep. 1065
People use that term as they relate to Watergate or the covering up of not sharing public information about a war.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Vulgar Met Gala, Jen Psaki's Cover-up Lies, and Trump vs. Harvard, with Stu Burguiere and Kevin Roberts | Ep. 1065
But other people have used that term. And I think it's a bit of a dangerous term. Well, then you shouldn't have done it.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Best of the Week: Trump vs. NBC, Insane CEO Assassination Reaction, Caitlin Clark Bends the Knee
Yes, the tone was different, but it doesn't mean it's a difference in his priorities. So what struck me is more tone, not a difference in what he intends to do or what he wants the people he's nominating to do.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Mm hmm.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
area. Everybody thinks that every federal worker is in the D.C. area. Eighty percent of federal workers are outside of the D.C. area. And this is, I think, something people in the country are learning, that these are your postal workers. These are the people who are working at FBI offices. offices who are keeping your community safe.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
They're the FAA workers who are making sure you can fly safely on the airlines. They're people who are working at the VA. It is not a bunch of, I love government bureaucrats, but it's not a bunch of government bureaucrats. It is a bunch of people working in communities. And I think people are hopefully learning that, but that's an important part of this to understand.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah. Look, it's the worst assignment in politics. I think you avoid the call and then you always have to say yes. That's sort of what it is when you're doing that speech. That was about as good as it gets, I think, in this moment. I wrote down a couple of other things she said that I think could be good lines for Democrats. I mean, Americans made it clear prices are too high.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
That stuck out to me and I wrote it down because that was something nobody wanted to admit leading up to the November election. And it was like not acknowledging what people were experiencing. And that's a lesson coming out of November. Do his plans actually help people get ahead? That is pretty direct and straightforward. That's a good framing way to look at the question.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
I also think just to say something about Alyssa Slotkin, there's often this question of do Democrats need to find a celebrity, somebody who's outside of politics? Somebody has six million TikTok followers. She's a mom from Michigan. I doubt she's on TikTok. She's just a pretty normal person who happens to be really smart and got elected to the Senate.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
That's the kind of messaging that I think works. The other thing I would just say about the speech, because I think it flows into what she had to say, is I think the speech, I think Democrats need to look at the speech. The volume is the point, as Nicole was saying, right? Volume and chaos and figuring out the whack-a-mole is the point.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
If I am them, I am looking at the Social Security sections of that speech. Trump's speech, yeah. Of the Trump speech. Sorry, to go back to the Trump speech. And I am figuring out how to put that. It's not really a time for television ads, but put that out, respond on that, focus on the thing. You can oppose everything he said, but you have to pick something. A thousand flowers cannot bloom.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
And the Social Security piece, especially given the former Social Security administrator said this week that that program, they may not be able to make payments. They may not make payments in the next 30 to 90 days. That's what he said, Martin O'Malley. So there's a lot of backdrop here. If I'm them, that's what I pick.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
But I feel like overall tonight, it's an opportunity for Democrats to try out some material and see what works on the economy.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Party organizers. We've got to be selective. We also have to be able to differentiate between what is shock and awe and what is meaningful action. And even some social media darlings.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I hope people are listening right now who are contemplating whether they can run for office and thinking about it. And I want to talk to you about this because I think sometimes people define it as it's a messaging issue. The policies are all great. They just need to message better. Sounds like you're saying it's more than that.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Yeah, I also think people can sense when something is like a poll-tested, branded thing, right? I mean, I worked in Democratic politics, obviously, more than 20 years. And sometimes when things are branded, even when they have good components of them, like the opportunity agenda, which had a lot of good stuff in it, but it sounds... Not real.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
So here we go. Welcome to The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. For our first conversation, I talked with Maryland Governor Wes Moore just before the Super Bowl. He's obviously a rising star, but I wanted to talk with him because he has one of the most compelling personal stories in politics today.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
On the messaging of it, I mean, one of the things that I learned from trying to sell the Affordable Care Act, which you may remember was quite unpopular for many years, was that it didn't become more popular until it was broken out into different pieces, right? Which sort of seems so obvious looking back in some ways. If your child is under 25, you can keep them on your health insurance.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
This will cover pre-existing conditions, things like that. You, I mean, you just gave your state of the state. You talked about a lot of specifics in there. A lot of it was on the economy and addressing needs of the working class. What have you learned about how to talk about these issues? Because is the economy the number one issue in Maryland? I assume so.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Everywhere. But what have you learned about how to talk about it in a way that people connect with?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
He's blunt about where the party is falling short, and he also doesn't shy away from showing up in places you may not expect.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
One of the many reasons I want to talk to you is that you actually talk to human beings every day. And sometimes when you're in Washington and I've lived here on and off for 20 years, you get a little disconnected from how people are actually talking about things.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And as we look back at the election and more importantly, how we look forward, I mean, some of the areas where Trump made gains were among a slight gain, some gains among young black men, a larger one among Latino men. Do you think that's about the policies? Is it about how they're talked about? Is it about misinformation? As we're looking back but trying to look forward, what do you make of that?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
That conversation is next on The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. This is where we just get crazy.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I read a lot of your recent interviews you've done. So then this really stuck out to me. I wrote it on a piece of paper. You talked about the bastardization of patriotism, which I thought was such an interesting. And you can talk about this because you're a veteran. Everybody can't talk about this, in my view.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Okay. Governor Moore, it's great to see you.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And one of the things that has struck me over many years of being involved in politics is Fox News is playing in every military base. The military, I think, is largely conservative leaning, which, you know, and there is an ownership of the flag and patriotism by members of the Republican Party, regardless of what that means. How do Democrats flip that? How do they regain it?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You don't think they care right now?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I may have met you briefly before this, but I think I met you for the first time a year and a half ago when I came to visit you in Annapolis.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
It was very fun. And we talked all about your background. You have kind of this, what I would consider a fascinating, unique background. You probably didn't bet as a kid that you were going to be the governor of a state.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
We always like to end on a positive note because we're having real candid, sometimes dark convos here. You're a positive-vibed guy. I think it's fair to say. I think a lot of people listening right now are having a hard time with what the country's going through, what they're seeing, the impact. Some people are feeling like, I don't want to be engaged. I'm taking myself out of this.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Some people are feeling like, I just don't want to consume the news. What do you say to people? I mean, you have to do this every day. You're the governor. So what do you say to people about why it's important to stay engaged and what keeps you engaged, aside from your day job, of course?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
But you grew up with a single mom. You have an amazing story. She's an amazing woman. You were in the military. You're a veteran. You're a Rhodes Scholar. You ran the Robin Hood Foundation. And all of this, I think, makes for a unique background. I want to get into all of it. But it's the Super Bowl this weekend. This is going to air right after this. Super Bowl.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Governor Westmore, a perfect place to end. Thank you so much for joining me today.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
As a subscriber, you'll also get exclusive bonus content that we're excited to share with you later in the series. The senior producer for The Blueprint is Margaret Menefee, and our producer is Vicky Virgilina. John Ball is our associate producer. Our booking producer is Michelle Hoffner, and we had additional support from McKenna Roberts, Will Robbie, and Matt Rivera.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory and Katie Lau, and Bryson Barnes is the head of audio production. Alex Lupica is the executive producer of Inside with Jen Psaki, and Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNBC Audio. I'm your host, Jen Psaki. Remember to search for The Blueprint wherever you get your podcasts and follow the series.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I may make you make a prediction, but we'll kind of see where it goes. But one of the things that made me think about is we love football in my house. We're Bengals fans. Sorry. My condolences. You're a Ravens fan. My six-year-old, we have Ravens fans across the street because we live in Arlington, but they're still Ravens fans. And he will say to our neighbor who is six foot five, Boo Ravens.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Let's just think about who we're talking smack to for a second. That's our friend, but he's 6'5", you're 40 pounds.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And Joe Burrow, I will tell you, if he came to my in-law's house, my mother-in-law would be like, what kind of pie do you want? I will make you 700 meals. When there was a rumor that he was engaged, we had a family text chain. My mother-in-law was like, he's too young. He's not ready yet. I was like, I think he's the age when you got married. But anyway, that aside.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
But I wanted to do because football, I mean, it's watched by more Americans than anything else. And it is sort of a unifier in the sense that tens of millions of people are going to sit down and watch the Super Bowl. And I love sports, too. I was a swimmer, not a football player.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
He won the popular vote by the smallest margin of any president since Nixon. But he did win six swing states. That one blew last time. And he is now sitting in the Oval Office. So how did we get here? And more importantly, I've been thinking a lot about where the Democrats go from here.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
But one of the things I love about it is at the end of the game, everybody shakes hands and there may be smack talking, but you kind of move forward. But you have done a number of things. You went to the Army-Navy game. You saw Trump there, of course. We can dive into that if you want. You were shotgunning a beer at the Ravens game.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I want you to know, because we're about the same age, that when I saw that, I was like, I could still do that. I think I could still shotgun a beer. If so, you did that. You worked out with the Ravens, I think.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And the University of Maryland. Who's in better shape? Which one of them?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I didn't want to undervalue your participation.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Well, yeah, they're in their 20s. When I worked for President Obama, he used to sometimes work out, I'm going to put that in quotes, with college basketball players. And he's a pretty tall guy. He's in shape. But you see these athletes in person and you're like, no, you're younger, but you're just like, you're a superior- Yes.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
There's levels to this. But what's interesting to me about this is you clearly love football as a person. You haven't been afraid to show that.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Why have you decided to do all this in the public?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Because questions are hard and they warrant longer and definitely more introspective conversations than a short segment on TV allows for. Plus, the actions of the Trump administration and our efforts to try to understand them and explain them, it all takes up a lot of oxygen. So I wanted to have a place to discuss what the Democrats are doing to regain power.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Yeah, I mean, what I love about this is, and I figured this since you played football in college, you clearly love it, is that sometimes I think Democrats are afraid to show their sides that are not, you know, one of the great things about a lot of Democrats and Democratic Party is it's like the kids who sat in the front of the class who wanted to get an A in AP history in high school.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You know, you're a Rhodes Scholar. You don't have anything to prove. Yeah. But a lot of people seem afraid to show their personal side, their silly side, their human side.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You weren't practicing your inaugural address when you were 11 in the mirror?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Yeah, that's a good thing to remember. When you run into constituents or people, Marylanders, who don't know you well or meeting you for the first time, do they say, do you really like football? Or do they ask you questions? Do they quiz you or they...
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You just teed me up because this is going to air the morning after the Super Bowl. So who wins? Who's MVP?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
It prompted me to call up some people I've known a very long time, some who I think just have interesting and different perspectives, to take a candid look at what just happened and talk about what they think the blueprint should be for Democrats winning again.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
What do you think? There's so much I want to talk to you about, but I just want to ask you one more question about sports. I mean, I was a college swimmer, and what I learned about that in terms of my life moving forward is that there's nothing worse than a three-hour swim practice at 5 a.m. in Connecticut where it's 15 degrees. And there's a maniacalness about swimming.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You just, like, are doing the same thing continuously. What have you taken away from sports that has helped you approach your job as governor?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Hi there, it's Jen Psaki. I spent 20 years working in Democratic politics, and now I'm the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Psaki. And since November, I, probably like most of you, have been spending a lot of time thinking about what gave us another Donald Trump presidency. Now, to be clear, Trump didn't win in a landslide.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
That's a good mantra. We have a saying, one of those cheesy saying things, right when you walk out of the door in our basement that I make my kids look at sometimes, it's about you never get this day back, which is, I think, in a reminder. So I mentioned at the start of our conversation, you just have a really interesting background. I mean, you were raised by a single mom.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You also spent a couple of years running the Robin Hood Foundation. And for people who aren't familiar with it, I mean, and you can tell me if this is the accurate description. Yeah. basically focused on addressing poverty. And it's a really incredible organization.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And because of your background, because of that, I want to ask you just about the Democrats' inability, I will say, define it as, to connect on issues that impact working people, lower income families, and how you think about that.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Just get a job and we'll give you some benefits.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I'm like, does everybody know what that means? Maybe they do. But I was like, this is what it is. And people were messaging me on social media platforms. Always dangerous when you look that up and they're like, we know what it is. Stop explaining it to us. It's like, well, okay.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Sorry, but I think there is a following the soccer ball of, you know, everybody's calling it a tech oligarchy. We're all talking about fascism. It's not that they're not issues. It's just that that message was not connecting with a majority of the public. And so that's where I think there needs to be a readdressing.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I would also like to know how do they know they've destroyed the data that they pulled out when they had access to it? I'd also like to know what can Congress exactly do? I mean, if we're calling on them to do things and Democrats are in the minority, they have limited power. What should they push to do? I mean, should there be a push to subpoena people from Doge? I think so.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I mean, these are some of the things, yes, I've lived in Washington and worked here on and off for a long time, but we've never been in this exact scenario before. So the piece that I'm most interested in Is what now? Right. What what are the levers that can be used? Obviously, the courts have been active. How many of these cases could go to the Supreme Court?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
They're only going to pull probably pick maybe a few. I don't know. But that's what legal experts say. Which ones and what does that mean for executive power? These are the questions I also have that I think to me.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
you know, one of the wake up, well, I don't know if it was a wake up call, but one of the things I've thought a lot about since the election was if we're out there every day and screaming fascism, constitutional crisis, the world is ending. It's like, well, it's not answering people's questions, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
If they're ending the show and that's all I'm screaming at them, what did they learn or what did they gain from the experience of watching the show? And now, as you know, sometimes you have people on And you ask them these questions and they don't answer them or they can't answer them or they don't have the information. And that's fine.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But in this moment, as it's so fast moving, I also feel this interest but also responsibility to try to kind of pull out what are the levers that can be done? What are the checks on power that can still be utilized?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
On all of us? What was the punishment on?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I don't see that yet either. That is not to go back to plug my own podcast, and I'm not really trying to do that, but I'm going to do it for a second. Hey, what the? Well, listen. Son of a bitch. All right. This was actually one of the things in the weeks after the election where I felt like – It wasn't that I was shocked out of my mind that Trump won. I mean, I've been in politics.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I've traveled around the country. But how did this happen and why did this happen and what can be learned from it, which I think is pivotal to understanding in order to figure out how to move forward, which I think is the part of what I'm hearing from what you're saying. And I don't think there's one answer. And I know that there are efforts in different places to explore that question.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think the DNC is doing one. I don't know what will come out of that. I'm keeping my expectations low. But that's sort of, to me, it is a multitude of things. It is how how the Democrats are communicating about issues. But it's also maybe it's a policy question, too. And let's not all just call it a messaging issue because it may not just be a messaging issue.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
It's misinformation and disinformation. And that's not just everybody shorthands this as if Democrats only appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast. I'm like, I'm not sure. I don't know that he's inviting many. Maybe he is, but that's not the only answer. I think there's a lot of layers of it. It's also the kind of candidates people run. That's not a hack on Kamala Harris.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I mean, in different races as well. And sometimes there have been purity tests in the Democratic Party that aren't particularly constructive. The purity test should be, can you win? And will you be a part of the caucus? Because the majority helps make things happen. I don't have an answer yet, but this is the thing that I want to explore.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I do think – and sometimes – I don't want to say too principled because that is not a good thing to say. But I think principled, yes. The Democratic Party writ large are defenders of institutions that make the country run. The rule of law. This is part of the problem, right? Right. They are believers in the separation of government.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
First of all, now I'm going to keep thinking about Donald Trump swinging his thing, which is a phrase you just- Please don't do that.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Okay. I think- What it is exposing is how he thinks the world should work, right? And how he thinks business, to your point, should work.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I don't think that actually government does work that way.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think there are corrupt people in both parties. And we know that for, look, Eric Adams. Well, I guess he's who knows what's happening with him next. You know, Menendez. There are corrupt people. But I think that for the most part, the people who have been leading the Democratic Party, at least in recent years, have been trying to do good things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
in more of a way of protecting rule of law, of trying to stand up for people in this country than what we have seen from what has become Trump's Republican Party. It's not the party of Mitt Romney or John McCain anymore from what that version of the Republican Party is.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, but that may be giving him too much credit.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I understand that. But also he loves Vladimir Putin and loves his dictatorial nature. And I think he also might be inclined to just say, you know what, you take whatever land you want and we'll end this whole thing. And then I can say I ended this war. I don't know that he's actually going to stick to what he said about Ukraine. And who knows? But like he says all sorts of things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I hear what you're saying. I think the history of the country led by Democrats and Republicans is imperfect. There's many moments even before Afghanistan, even before Iraq, et cetera.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But what I'm getting at, I think, is that Trump, I mean, what he is rebuilding the government as is in the model of loyalty to him, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And that is not what I think leaders from other parties, I mean, Republicans too, have ever tried to do in modern history.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Maybe at times. I mean, and there are times.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, look, I think there are also realities of, you know, and I worked at the State Department for a couple of years and you'd go to meetings and you would do a readout of the meeting. And oftentimes it was like, oh, we have to mention that we raised human rights. Right. And the human rights mention would have been five seconds of a two hour meeting. That is a truth because there are.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
It is. And right. And if you don't cut the Defense Department budget, you're not going to make the cuts. Anyway, that's an aside. I do think, though, just to go back to I do think most people who run for president and I know there are exceptions in history and we can talk about them, but do it because they want to make the country a better place, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
They want to defend people and represent people in the country. I don't think they do it necessarily because they want to, you know, have cheaper labor. Nobody runs. That's not what they have in their mind.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes, I know what you're saying. However, I do think that the current situation we're dealing with is a very different destruct from internal.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think it's different. Okay. And I think it's far more destructive. If you look at—we've already talked, I know, about the getting into the payment systems, which is concerning. We've already talked about stopping programs that are benefiting people across the country. Then there's also now this loyalty test for people applying to work in intelligence and law enforcement.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
These are things that are rebuilding the government infrastructure in the model of Donald Trump, right? And that model across all of those branches or across all of those elements is based on pure loyalty to him and embracing kind of, as you said, the corrupt approach to governing that he thinks is okay.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes. And I think that part of that was not addressing and listening to the core people who should have been the base and who are the base, I think, of the Democratic Party, which is a lot of working people who are impacted by exactly those policies you just outlined. Um, so yes, it is different things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And part of it is also, there are things that on its surface are that Trump has said are, I mean, government is bloated. It is inefficient. Um, and there are reasons why that should be addressed. The way to do that is not to have Elon Musk go, you know, target people who have attended DEI trainings, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Tell me what do you mean by I don't disagree with you necessarily, but what do you mean by that?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You mean because it didn't have a public option in it?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yeah. So, yes, I think we're saying, well, I'm trying to say something similar, which is this. Which is Democrats just lost everything. They control nothing. They control. I mean, they don't control the House. They don't control the Senate. They don't control the White House and they don't control the Supreme Court. So now is the time to break some shit. Right. And break some China.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, that's right. I don't even, it's like an overwhelming. And I, you know, I hear the public option. Look, I worked for Obama. He was, would have been for the public option. He didn't think it could get through, right? Was he wrong? Maybe he was wrong.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But what is he, what has he produced though? I mean, he doesn't, even if he sees tariffs as a success, it's not going to be, but he even had to pull back from that. It's like, what are the outcomes of his success of his grand proclamations?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
So that is what he wanted. Right. So he got some things he wanted. What I'm getting at is like, yes, the Affordable Care Act, imperfect. But there would be, or it's that, it would have been that or nothing. That's how I think people at the time felt. And you disagree.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
No, you can—everybody gets a zillion press releases and pitch calls, but no.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Oh, no. You determine, we determine, each of us for our shows, here's what I'm going to cover today, and here's what I'm going to talk about, and here's what I think is important, which there is an independence-ish of that, and there also is— you're not waiting to be told what to say about anything. You're going to say what you think. So people can trust that. And that is a good thing.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You mean in terms of ratings?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
The greatest thing he did because it led them to be an arm piece, a mouthpiece of the right wing.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And MSNBC, I am unburdened by not having, I can share whatever I think. I have obviously worked in democratic politics for 20 years. I don't hide anything about that. It is a progressive leaning network. But nobody is, to the frustration at times of many elected Democrats, it is not a mouthpiece of the Democratic Party.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
What do you think that should be?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Great to be here. I loved how you said Robinette there, first of all. I'll just note that.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, here's the thing with a macro view though, a macro view where every show does the same thing. And maybe you're saying, you think, no, you're not saying that. Okay.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, I will say, broadly speaking, I don't think it's the Democrats. I'm going to say people on the left do not do that the right does very well is support within the system each other. I'm serious. And what I mean by this is this, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Theo Vaughn appears on Joe Rogan's show, right? He promotes what Joe Rogan's doing. But they all promote all of the things each other are doing and what the elected officials, I guess, are doing too. And the left is a little bit more kind of discombobulated in terms of supporting the different entities on the left. There is not a left ecosystem that matches the right ecosystems.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Don't you think they're the – but they are still in the right-wing ecosystem. Wouldn't you agree?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Has nothing to do with politics. And oftentimes, but they are- Almost entirely. But they are supportive of the Trump enterprise is what I mean. So maybe I'm loosely putting them in that category.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I was hoping you were going to tell me.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I don't say that. I don't think most people on MSN, I know what you're saying. I mean, look, this moment of the last three weeks has exposed exactly that issue. This notion that, and I think a lot of the media is guilty of this, is the, we have to be equal and down the middle. And look at how reasonable what Mike Johnson just said.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You're like, is it reasonable because it's less crazy than what Tom Cotton says? That doesn't make it reasonable, right? It's like, it's like, Rank order of things, you know, because we have to be fair and give everybody equal consideration.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, I know you're a big fan of the briefing room and how it operates.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I'm just kidding. Removed! Look, I think the thing that was frustrating about the media, two things, couple things. This is a therapy session, but I'll be short. One is... There is a performative nature, something I know you've talked about and everybody knows about the briefing room. And that was created by television, largely.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And what it means is that if you're in the briefing room and you watch a whole briefing, which most people don't, even if they're consuming the briefing, it is extremely repetitive. So six people asking the same questions because they need the clip for their package, right? Are you moving? Are you moving the story forward? Is that hard when you're the press secretary?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
No, it's hard only because by question seven, you're annoyed and then you can't be annoyed. You have to be, um, that is a challenge. The twisting yourself into pretzels in order to seem equal and balanced is driving me up the wall currently. Um,
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
The third thing is I think the responsibility of a press secretary, whether in White House or anywhere, is to be extremely informed on the policy and the substance. That's what it is. Actually, most of the job is not edgy and it's not arguing with Peter Doocy. It is like spending – I mean that was fun. But like it's spending hours in your office explaining –
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
The nuclear deal, explaining whatever may be happening in negotiations with Congress, that is not the sexiest part of the job, right? But that's the majority of the job. It's true for reporters, too. The best reporters who cover the White House are experts and super substantive and informed about the policies they're asking about, which is why when I was the press secretary—
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Not to pick on Peter Doocy. We had a good relationship. But I was never concerned about answering his questions. It was when I would see David Sanger, who's a New York Times reporter who's covered nuclear issues for 30 years, in the room. And I was like, shit, he's going to have a hard question. But what I have seen happen—and I blame this on the first Trump administration—
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
is this sort of addiction to trending, right? From some of these reporters, not all of them, there's a lot of good ones in there, where they literally would complain when I was the press secretary on background, meaning not with their name, that it was just, too boring because it was returning to too many policy briefings. And it's like, welcome, everybody. That's what we do here, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
If you want to cover something sexy, go cover Hollywood. I don't know. Like, we're nerdy. So I don't know. I just gave you a very long answer. But a couple of things that I think make the system, to state the obvious, it's outdated. That was what I was going to— It's not how people consume information.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
It is also—when I was leaving, I was Obama's communications director, and when I was leaving, well, we thought Hillary Clinton was going to win, so there's that. Obviously, that didn't happen. I would have told them—and I don't want to speak for Josh, but I think he would have said the same thing— change and modernize what you're doing in there, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I mean, do it twice a week and do one day that's just regional press. Bring people in on a screen. To Sean Spicer's credit, I mean, I know he wasn't like the success measure of this job, but like he at times brought in a screen of people who didn't live in Washington. There's a million things you can do and modernize it. And the reason that we didn't do that when I started is because
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
We were coming in at a point where there was such a trampling on the freedom of press. We felt like we needed to return to a very traditional approach. Maybe that was the right approach. Maybe it wasn't. But meaning you call on AP first. You have a briefing every day. You allow them to ask their questions. But, yes, it's overdue for modernization for sure. Right.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
10 and a half years to three weeks. Somewhere between three weeks to 10 and a half years.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, so, okay, I know this is your podcast and not mine.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I was going to ask you, because I have found this in my brief array into podcasting, is that the conversations are just a lot more... Flowing in a different way than when you're on... There's something about being on a... And you've done this a lot longer than me. But being on a television set where it's like you have to deliver your monologue or your script in a certain way.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And you can't just sit there and be like, hey, I'm Jen, what's up? Because that would seem weird on TV. But on a podcast or a different conversation, you can.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, by pace, I mean, I think the amount of activity and movement is a lot, right? But it's that kind of movement. I think what is very different, to state the obvious, is the absolute gutting of agencies and civil servants and people who have worked in government for decades. That's not something obviously we did or any Democratic or Republican administration has done.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think I agree with that. I mean, it is people feel that the system is broken and working against them.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That is something that I think, and I'm not that many Democrats might understand and agree with, but don't articulate that and don't connect with people about how broken they feel the system is. Um, And I also think the policy solutions don't feel always bold enough. And sometimes they are.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That's true. I also think they're overcomplicated by, and this is the tertiary example just to come back, but the packaging of them.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That is true. And now some regulations are good. Like we like clean air and water.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Right. Yes. But yeah. But again, there are there are there is a clear a message from the election is clearly people feel disappointed and pissed off with government. And it's like, what are you going to do about it now? Now, I am scared for what Trump, because three weeks in, I'm already feeling like I need to lay down. But I, you know, I'm not going to lay down. But I'm concerned.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I try very hard not to be scared. project fear. I'm not fearful as a person. I'm concerned about what he could do in this period of time, but there's a huge opportunity here on the political front for Democrats.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yeah, because he's not going to implement it the right way. He doesn't know how to address the things he's saying are the problems.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, one of the ways I process it is that I feel like when Democrats, and including people who are on television in a variety of ways, were saying things like authoritarianism is under threat and democracy is on the ballot, I think we were speaking in a manner that was so academic and ivory tower, it wasn't talking about a lot of the things people actually care about.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
So I don't know that people voted against democracy. I think they voted in some ways against protection of status quo and kind of the disconnected academic ivory tower elite language that is too often used by Democrats, sometimes on cable television. What? I'm just being honest.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I'm being honest. No, that was one of my takeaways after the election was like, cross authoritarianism and oligarchy out of every script. Nobody talks this way.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Um, I don't think that's the only thing, but I do think looking back at the election, one of the outcomes, I hope people who are not thrilled by the Trump administration, which is a whole lot of people take away is that Democrats and people running, weren't talking to a large swath of the country. They were kind of talking to a small group of people, um,
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
They were talking to people who were primarily focused on things that were, in my view, more academic than they were real issues.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes. So I think the threat of fascism is a huge issue. The threat of authoritarianism, huge issue. This guy is an aspiring dictator. His words, not mine. All of those are huge issues. I also think Liz Cheney is very heroic.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Here we are. But I don't think closing the campaign with a message of about fighting democracy with a former Republican member of Congress was the right strategy. I'm not saying that's why they lost.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
What I'm saying is there were millions of people who didn't turn out to vote, many of whom have in the past leaned toward Democratic issues, leaned toward Democratic candidates. And Trump somehow massively won on issues like the economy, even though his primary position is that he wants to lower tax cuts for corporations and the highest income Americans.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That reality means maybe something isn't going well.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You're right. Maybe progressives is not – let me just – you're right. That is not the right way, progressives, to describe it. It's elites is the right way to describe it.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Is this how press secretaries – when you're in the back room – I just acknowledged I was wrong in one of the things I said.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, I think the Democratic message speak still needs a lot of work. But I think that as just to go back to the original part of your question on the press secretary job.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think the people who do it best or try to do it the best are the ones who are policy focused on the policy. and understanding it so that you could answer the 18th question. You're not worried about exactly every word. You're not trying to like, I'm going to say this thing and it's going to be a zinger and go viral. Like you don't think like that.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You think about understanding the policy so that you can push the system internally and provide more information publicly. That's not always how people think it works, but that's how it should work and how I think it worked or tried to make it work when I was in the job.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yeah, I would take it just one step farther. And I worked at the State Department. I think USAID is a tremendous institution. I don't think it should be a front and center top messaging argument. Should people in Congress defend and use every lever of their power to prevent the Trump administration from gutting it?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes, because they play a pivotal role around the world, cracking down on corruption, defending a free press, a million things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But I guess when it comes to how the Democrats are communicating with the public, the things that the Trump administration are doing that they should be talking about more, in my view, are getting access to people's personnel information, their Social Security data, people, anybody who's applied for a government job. That's millions of people.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Halting programs, which a judge this week said they haven't actually put back in place all of the funding halts, halting of the funding that they said they had. Those are the kind of things that if you are not really if you think government is government's not popular, as you all know, Congress is not popular.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Right, I don't know. Institution's not popular. So if you're trying to reach people who are like, ugh, government, Washington, then talk about how this program that's being cut off is helping your kids have early childhood education. It's helping you get Medicaid access. It's helping you farmers have subsidies.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I've retired from the world of Democratic messaging in some ways. I think some people do it better than others. I think it is easy to get caught up in. We're in a constitutional crisis, and we very well may be. I'm not trying to downplay that reality.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
When you have a president, which seems to be what's happening, and an administration who are defying a court order, that is ignoring the one branch of government. That is technically, I think as lawyers would define it, a constitutional crisis.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
A road to a constitutional crisis. How's that? That's what a press secretary does. See?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, there may be. And then you're like, how did she incorporate cigarettes, giraffes, Zimbabwe? It's like some sort of brain genius that my brain doesn't function that way. Yeah, I think some people do it better than others.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think there is an ease in using some of this rhetoric that is applauded by people who are very loud on social media platforms when it's like, it is an oligarchy or it is... You know, yesterday, last night on my show, I talked about what a constitutional crisis actually is because people keep throwing around constitutional crisis, constitutional crisis.