Jen Psaki
Appearances
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Do you think they're making a business calculation of their own that they can get? But it's like liberal causes. How does that make them the same amount of money as Right, exactly. I mean, you know, you see this in kind of the consulting world, right? Which is like, it's really hard, not woe poor Democrats, but what's true is it's very hard to get hired right now as Democrat, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And person who's left the Biden administration, no matter how good and whatever your skill set is, because every company is like, we need closer ties to Trump, right? Not to you, yeah. That's every calculation. Now, these things are cyclical. Well, let's hope they're cyclical. I will hope they're cyclical. But... But yeah, I guess it's a calculation of that sort.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But what businesses, I don't know, what do you think? What businesses are going to be like, well, they're not falling prey to this. So I'm going to go with them.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Or at least the next year and a half or two, right? Because then who knows, right? Because then payback can be a bitch. Well, yeah, the House could be controlled by Democrats. It could be a little bit more like, you know, We're going to investigate why you gave in here. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Maybe I'm naive about the law firm thing. And I may be. I may be. I do think they're going to be more bullying about other things. The law firm thing, you're right. Like their businesses, they have to make calculations and maybe... I don't know.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Or taking on clients that would remotely offend the Trump administration. That's correct. So is that what you want to agree to? And that does, I mean, again, I mean, doesn't it feel counter to why people say they went to law school? Yes, it does.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Welcome, Jen. I mean, Cara, first of all, as a listener, as I told you yesterday, I was like, I have to bring inappropriate jokes and inappropriate things to be said. But I don't know. I don't know that that's my vibe. I'm just trying to be my authentic self.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, I think his power is his money. And his money is not paying for, I mean, as much as he was in Wisconsin on Sunday, it's not paying for, hi, I'm Elon Musk, go out and vote in the Wisconsin state Supreme Court race. It's paying for all sorts of things, including convincing, you know, getting people to register or to vote, to participate in this, whatever we're calling this, a raffle.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I don't even know how to call it, the thing where he gives out money, a raffle. Yeah. So that's—his money is his power. I mean, and his platforms are his power. His platforms are his power. And so I don't think any Democrat should underestimate that. At the same time, he's more unpopular than Trump, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And I don't think Trump, if Trump were, if there were House races now, I don't think any House candidates would put him in an ad, but they would happily take his money and they'd happily get his favor so that they would get favored status on Twitter or X or whatever the hell. Or not be attacked by Trump. Or not be attacked, right. I mean, there's lots of ways to look at that, right? I mean, so...
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And the Wisconsin state Supreme—we'll see what the turnout is, but it's still—you know, you talk to Democrats, Ben Wickler, who's the party chair, and others, and they say the turnout's going to be high. That may be the case, but it's still a state Supreme Court race. It's not a governor's race. It's not a presidential race. And the money he's spending there matters.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So that's where I think his power is.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I really don't, but maybe the conversation will bring me around to it. Okay. Maybe it'll bring me around to it. Feel free to. I'll feel free to say inappropriate things. I feel freed. I feel freed on your podcast. All right.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah, I mean, the heat shield, I think, is the most— like, clearest, as long as he continues to be a heat shield. I think where we disagreed, and I feel like you have some sort of insider trading knowledge because you just, like, know him better than I do, is, like, will he be there in a year? Himself, because of his businesses.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, no, will Elon Musk still be, like, in the Trump orbit in a year? You think yes, right? Yes. I think no, although I only bet $5. Okay, all right.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think if Musk feels like a political problem to Trump, I know he's a heat shield, but you can go from a heat shield to becoming a political problem. including if Democrats get their act together and figure out a more effective way of talking about Doge cuts and cuts to Social Security and things like that, then he's not going to be as convenient as a buddy.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So then he won't be around as much in the orbit.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, maybe, but I don't, Trump, I don't know how much he cares. Like he's had plenty of people attacking him all the time. I mean, so, you know, how do you rid him? I mean, I don't mean to sound dark here. I'm saying he can go whatever. You just put someone else in charge of Doge. You, like, say... This guy, like, is out of whack or whatever. You say, I don't know, who knows?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
What's the pitch? Well, right now I'm doing a show on Sundays. I'm doing a show on Mondays. They're a little different because Sundays, which you were on yesterday, it's a different thing. People are sitting down with their coffee. They want big picture. That's what we try to do. And Mondays is just what the hell just happened today. So it's a little bit different.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He offs people all the time in terms of his orbit. So there's all sorts of ways to off Elon Musk in his orbit. I think that the interesting thing to me is if, to your point, is if Trump and Musk at some point have a falling out, I think there was a theory, which I don't think you ever agreed with, that it might be a short honeymoon. It's already a long honeymoon.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Then there's an interesting thing for the future of the Republican Party. I mean, if you're if you're J.D. Vance, you don't want to be in the crosshairs of Trump, but you also don't want to be in the crosshairs of Elon Musk. That's correct. J.D. Vance is like 40 something. He's maybe he's around for a long time. Maybe he wears that as welcome with Republicans, too. I have no idea.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But if you're a lot of these future Republicans, you care about Musk and you care about Steve Bannon, who doesn't like Musk. So that's a different, that's an interesting calculation, if Trump and Musk have a falling out. Which way do you go with each of them?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
They don't like them. I think it's furthering the heat shield that you've talked about. And I totally agree with because it is taking the energy and anger that you are seeing from a lot of Democrats out there and directing it at Tesla. Now- I think it's very warranted. Elon Musk has done some very bad things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I kind of wish these people were protesting about Trump and Social Security or Trump and something else, Medicaid cuts. Because I don't know. Ultimately, are people going to go to the polls in November and in November a year and a half from now about Tesla? Yeah. I mean, I'd be surprised. Lots of things can happen.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I wish it was something—I wish they directed all of their pain, anger, and passion, which is a good thing. What can Democrats do to cycle that in? Well, I mean, this is presumably somewhere organic. I haven't seen, but you tell me, that these Tesla protests, are they being organized by any, like, Democratic grassroots group? Some are. Some are. Some are.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I have a podcast called The Blueprint. Explain what The Blueprint, why it's called The Blueprint. You and I talked about this name. I mean, the blueprint was it was my form of therapy. I don't know if you find podcasting to be therapeutic, but for me, it was after the election. And I like many people, I was like, what the hell just happened?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I think there are things that are happening that are sort of organic, but have been, you know, indivisible and others have been additive to it, like these town hall meetings, right? Showing up at town hall meetings, town hall meetings being held in Republican districts. Um, more of that. I think though, there's not enough Democrats who are doing that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
There are plenty who are doing, there are some who are doing it, I should say, but there needs to be more of that and people for people to feel like they have a place to go and to direct their energies. Um, I don't know. I still think there's some work on kind of the coordination and kind of what the messaging is and what people should be doing who are writing letters and things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
A lot of it is still about Tesla and maybe it will be for a while about Tesla.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He's not the president.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the interesting thing about reading the stories about this made me think about the early days after the purchase. When I think of what, did it happen in the spring of like two years ago? When did this happen? Am I remembering this correctly? This is relevant only because at the correspondence dinner, which I still attend many years later.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I wasn't shocked, but I just felt like so many things were missed, including by me and so many things I got wrong. And I so for me, my therapy was making a list of people who I felt would be Candid, say what they actually thought, not pretend like they know all the answers because no one does. I made kind of a list. I like write everything on note cards. I'm like an old lady.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
We're going to talk about that next. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But I made like a back of the envelope list of people. I think you know all of them, right? It's like people who would just say what's on their minds. You know, Jemele Hill, Rahm Emanuel, Don Lemon. None of these people are holding back. Right, right. So we did that. We were only going to do six episodes. We ended up doing nine, and we're going to reboot it in the fall. Oh, great.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So why the blueprint? Explain for the kids who don't know what a blueprint is. I know. I think you told me. We talked about this, and you were like, it's a very old-timey phrase.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Guys, like so many people, I consult with the great Kara Swisher about like every career move and thing I do in my life. We're going to do the mimeograph.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
What if we call it the record player? Would people relate to that? The blueprint. Actually, they're back. They're back, Jen. I know that. You know, my daughter has a record player. The blueprint is not back, but go ahead. We're bringing it back. We're bringing it back. The blueprint is how do Democrats win again?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
,,,,,,, . . . . ., a, set, P P P P P G實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . a Laboratory a ,,,,,,, there's no precedent for this, right? So there's no, just like many things Trump does, it's almost like the playbook, the system is not prepared to respond to it.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So reflecting on what just happened, what people got wrong, but also looking ahead to what to change moving forward. And there's a lot of criticism people have for episodes we've done so far, which I think is healthy. People don't all disagree with each other either. And that's kind of the point. So that's the purpose.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So this is a moment for, I think, them and as an association or as media outlets to decide, how are we going to respond? Maybe Trump's not the last version of this, right? I think you should plan for him not being the last version of this. And what does that look like?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I think they're stupid. No, no, no, no, no. You shouldn't have briefings. But absolutely, for a number of reasons. I mean, one of them is it's, I mean, freedom of press, having the freedom of press there, that sends a message to the world. You can't go into other countries and be like, freedom of press, talk to real reporters and then not do it yourself.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It also pushes the system internally to get answers. It's very efficient. All of those things. What I mean is there are... There are ways that the, you know, in the briefing room, it's a little different now, but in the briefing room still, it's dominated by a handful of outlets. And a handful of outlets are not what the majority of the public consumes. And so there are some outdated ways
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
aspects of it yeah yeah i i was sort of like when she was like let's let in others i'm like yeah let's let it i want to go oh yeah yeah the the so those things the thing the problem is those things are good things like sean spicer did a lot of crazy things i can only think of melissa mccarthy but he did have a screen where he had regional reporters at times i think that's a good thing there are things that need to be modernized about that but i but i what they've done now is
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
is they've essentially let in state-run media to be the dominant sources of information in the pool, and that's a problem.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It is, yes. And historically, Democratic and Republican presidents have not done that. There's all sorts of things to criticize about every administration in terms of the ones, including the ones I worked in, about how they dealt with the press. I'm not suggesting that. But there were briefings done. There was, most of the time, accurate information.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
There wasn't intentional misleading most of the time. There are exceptions, right? This is a whole different thing, and the system and the press corps is not prepared for it. Well, Trump is innovative, if anything.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I guess you could call it that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Sure. I would have done, actually, truthfully, if Hillary Clinton had won, I was the communications director for Obama, we would have recommended they change the briefing.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And when I came in, and I'll come back to that in a second, when I came in and I was Biden's press secretary four years later, because we were following four years of them yelling at reporters and demonizing the media and not doing regular briefings, we felt like we had to return to some sort of normalcy to send the message, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But if it had been Hillary Clinton, I would have said do two or three briefings a week, include some sort of rotation of regional reporters or other outlets, either in the room or on a screen. You can easily answer questions to people who are on a screen. Um, the other days, maybe do them off camera because people can still get information, but there's something very performative.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I realize I'm currently, I'm a host of a TV show, but like there's something very performative about the briefing room and television. You and Juicy. Yeah, we got it. I mean, but you know, yes, you have to, you can do that. Give people the clips they want and whatever. But like two days, do a gap. What's called, we call it a gaggle. You do them on planes, um, at the state department.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, it's hard because there's too many people usually, but like, yes, back in the day, you used to do gaggles in your office. People still ask tough questions. You still have to answer them. It's not as performative and it's not as constructive to ask the question 17 times because somebody's already asked the question. Those are a couple of the things I would do.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, the initial stages were a combo of I literally had never seen a teleprompter before. I didn't know what it looked like. And it's not the most important thing, but you want to be functional enough on it that it's smooth. And the biggest part of it is if it's your own words and your own voice, which sounds obvious, but it isn't always.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
OK, wins. I'm going to say as much as I've said repeatedly that there are not enough Democrats out there and more need to be out there. I am delighted by the reemergence of Tim Walz, who I think was like locked in a closet somewhere during the 2024 or most of the election after he became the running mate. I love his imperfect, rough around the edges answers to things.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He had this amazing moment a couple of days ago where he talked about the benefits of the Department of Education and what it actually does for people. He was asked a question by a student at a Title I school. I think this is one of those bureaucratic things most people don't know how to talk about. And I think a lot of parents would actually care if they knew. I loved that.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I love the reemergence of him. I'm going to give a tie. The other person that I have, I didn't, I knew who he was, but I didn't really pay attention to what he had to say. But I feel like has become this emerging great speaker and voice in the Democratic Party is Greg Kazar. Oh, I don't know this. Explain.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
He is the chairman of the Progressive Caucus, but he is a person who speaks in plain English about how things impact people. And I've had him on the show a couple times. He's been at a couple of these rallies. It's always exciting when you see people you didn't really know before, and you're like, that person makes sense. So that's exciting to me. I'm going to say my loss.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So learning how to use a teleprompter, read a teleprompter, and really learning how to write for TV, which is different from writing for a politician or writing a book or writing an op-ed. So that was its own kind of technical transition. I also think when you transition careers, sometimes you think you have to become a version of what you see, right?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I'm just going to stay in the political space. In the blueprint theme, since nobody knows what the blueprint is, I'm going to tell you. I have been consistently disappointed with Chuck Schumer, which I have openly talked about. Me too. I think we can move on from the debacle of the funding agreement for a moment. But here's what is disappointing.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It doesn't seem clear that any lessons have been learned because the Democrats have been on recess. There is a debate coming up about extending high-end tax cuts, which will happen in all likelihood, but this is a winning issue. It could be something you could equip people to go out to districts and whole town halls and meetings and be aligned.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I'm obsessed with Social Security and how this is something that some Democrats have effectively talked about. But the fact is, you have the Commerce Secretary saying his mother, his mother-in-law, was it his mother-in-law? Oh, whatever. He's such a clown. Wouldn't care. No, he said, did you see this? Yes, I did. Wouldn't care if her Social Security check got a week late.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
It's because her son's a billionaire, you imbecile. Right! Also, like, that should be in ads everywhere. Like, I know about it, but why isn't it everywhere? So I'm not putting all the blame on him, but he's a Democratic leader. We can move on from the funding debate. Let's learn some lessons.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Yes, we do too. We like to have comics on as well because I think they can talk about things happening in a way that breaks through and is real. As she said, it's a little bit more fearless because you want to be funny. Right.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Like I have to look at anchors and be an anchor. And really, you just have to be yourself. And it took me a while to feel... comfortable, not too long, but a little bit comfortable in what that meant.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
We're here for it. Someone's going to write to you and give their analysis. I love it.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I need an older son to give me dirty jokes. I know, it's true.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
You're everywhere, Cara.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Great to be with you.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Thank you. Next guest host better bring dirty jokes. You give them a heads up.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And in some ways, and the other thing I was very mindful of that I, when I started was I'd obviously been Joe Biden's press secretary until a couple of months before I started and until about eight months before my show started. And I didn't, I think you and I talked about this.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I thought a lot about not wanting to be perceived as his spokesperson, but also not being inauthentically, all of a sudden, I'm down the middle because I'm not. I mean, I've worked in politics for 20 years. I'm not down the middle. I have points of view. And so that was its own kind of journey for me.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Now, when the debate debacle happens and I said what I saw, as everybody saw, that maybe broke the fever of that. That wasn't my intention. But now it's a little different because... We have a new – I mean, our new show is going to be at 9 o'clock on Tuesdays through Fridays. It's launching in May.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And one of the things I've been thinking a lot about is that I kind of shied away from talking as much about my own experience and my experience in government and politics. I do sometimes, but now it feels like there is this real – hunger. And I know this anecdotally. I know this from people who, you know, message me on social media or email. I know this from people I run into the airport.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
How the hell does this work? What's how's this supposed to work? What's broken? What's not? And I think I didn't, Lord knows, work for the current president. There's many, many Democrats. That would be a great show. Oh, my God. Many, many Democrats who may run for office president one day. Who the hell knows? I root for all of them. But I don't have any dog in the... You know what I mean?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
So now I feel like I can dive back into that a lot more. And give your expertise. And give my expertise. And I think I shied away from that initially because I was so worried about being perceived as kind of this continuing spokesperson.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
You love that. So you can call it whatever you want. I love that word.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, no president does. First of all, every president, I work for two, they're all pissed off when the press writes things about them that are negative, even if they're entirely fair. Now, Trump is obviously uniquely against the freedom of press, I would say. People may argue that, but I think that's a fair statement.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Now, normally in a case like this, what would happen is you have a scandal, a controversy, whatever it may be. You get together. In this case, if it were, let's just say normal times for a moment. I would have gotten together with Jake Sullivan and the national security team and Anita Dunn and Ron Clayton, and we all would have talked about like what actually happened here.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
You want to have a full understanding of the full damage, right? So it's not drip, drip, drip. This is the biggest Communications 101 mistake is not having a whole understanding of all of the things that could come out. And in this case, it would have been, what were the other signal chains? Which is probably knowable internally, but Mike Waltz also had that automatic delete after 30 days.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
The administration's 60, 70-something days old, right? And they had access to classified information during the transition, so it could have even gone beyond that. and you would have decided kind of what are we going to say about it? Is it something the press secretary says? Is it something Jake Sullivan comes and talks at the briefing about and then I answer questions?
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And then before you do any of that, you go get it approved by the president. That's a normal process, right? There's no doubt that's not what happened here, but that's what you would normally do.
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Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And, Kara, I mean, if you start your answer with something about, like, some people say I'm a conspiracy theorist or there's a – then you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I mean, it's like, you know, what are we – so, yes, they're all freewheeling. And Pete Hegseth was freewheeling somewhere, obviously. Well, Pete Hegseth went out.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, there's the crazy video from last week after Jeffrey Goldberg had put out the full, you don't have to call them war plans. They're specific logistical military attack details, right? After that had already been out on the Atlantic, Pete Hegseth went to the cameras. You know, he talks very loudly and aggressively when he's trying to deny something, which he has a lot of experience doing.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
But he went out and denied it. I mean, it's just—but I also feel like this whole thing of if they just admit that there was a mistake and then we'd move on, I don't think Democrats would have, and I don't think they should have. I mean, this is just kind of like a— A fuck-up, right?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, I mean, I think there's a question, right? Does Mike Waltz survive? He's the easiest one to fire because it's not a confirmed position. And any president can name anyone they want to that position, just like any other political appointee in the White House. People can hate the choice, right? But he's the easiest one to fire. Pete Hegseth is probably the one who's more justified to be fired.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I mean, you could argue whatever, because he's the one who put the information on there. But then he's going to nominate a new defense secretary. And I think all the reporting, which I think is true— For any president is you step away from a cabinet member and that makes you look weak, too. So that seems to be part of the discussion. I would I would bet.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Plus, getting someone to confirm for that job. So brazen it out is a better tactic here. Well, look, if you if you fire if he fires Mike Waltz, then he just names another national security adviser. Right. So they don't mind shoving him out. But I don't think they will. I don't think they will. Do you?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, which is why they're doing it, right? Right. I don't think we ever would have wished we could have done it. Maybe some people did. I just feel like it's got such a bad... it's kind of counter to what most presidents argue they're for, right?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Which is kind of rule of law, and you can be pissed off about what courts do, but it doesn't mean you ignore it, and it doesn't mean you pressure law firms not to represent clients. I mean, it's... I think it's, I mean, there's lots of things to be worried about right now, but this is one I think that's a legit one to be worried about. Because, tell me why from your perspective.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
Well, because I think you have these law firms who are making a business decision, not a crime, but also one where it's a version, in my view, of obedience in advance. It is... deciding that in order to survive, which they have to do as a business and as a law firm, you are going to agree to things that you wouldn't normally agree to. And you give Trump power over you.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
And I think for any president, that's dangerous. Maybe Democrat or Republican, but there's not a Democrat who's tried to do that. So that, but what do you, does it concern you?
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I don't I don't I think some Democrats would do it. I just maybe I just think, though, it's kind of what I mean is if you're kind of an arguing part of your argument is I believe in kind of the rule of law and I believe in kind of the legal system, then then making these sort of so frontal deals with law firms feels counter to that. I mean, so I don't know.
Pivot
Elon Merges Companies, WHCA Cuts Comedian, and Guest Co-Host Jen Psaki
I just, I guess there's lots of things Trump does and that Trump administration does that maybe do open floodgates.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
I think there is a way to be respectful and valuing the freedom of the press without being so old school wrapped up into the rules they want you to live by because they're not effective in terms of how you communicate with the public anymore. And that is like you got to like if you're running for president now, you're gonna be in the White House.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
You got to throw out some of how some of this is done to state the obvious.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Yeah. And also the American people, I don't think, believe that the only person who can ask a president a question is somebody who has a seat in the White House briefing room. That's just because it's not. So, you know, the notion that they're the only ones, it just isn't how the world works anymore. But yes, that was better stated than what I said. I was getting at the same point.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
But don't you think it's because they think it's – and I think it is effective, unfortunately, in getting some to obey in advance, right?
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
To not do stories so that they don't piss them off. To do extra outreach. To go, like, so beyond the pale at the extra mile. And, you know, look at all these payouts that have happened from – and more will happen. I mean, they will sue maybe all of us. I don't know. Shh, shh, shh, shh. Sorry, I guess just because I say it doesn't mean it's if I don't say it works for the network.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Well, congratulations to me. But, you know, I think it's it is it is that and it doesn't mean it's like people outlets or reporters are going to be like, oh, we're obeying in advance now. They just do it. You know what I mean? And I think they know that it can work in some capacity.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Oh, my God. That's such a good question. I mean, I'm going to steal a little bit of what Dan said, which is like Democrats sometimes don't take advantage of the cultural moments. It doesn't have to just be the Super Bowl. Sometimes there is an unwillingness or discomfort to in showing all sides of yourself. You know, I mean, there's a lot of like extremely smart Democrats out there.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
A lot of them are elected. You don't have to always talk like you are defending your PhD thesis, right? At every moment, you can talk about your love for sports, football, art, cultural things, music, whatever it may be. There is a stiffness sometimes is one of the things I would say. Maybe there's another way of saying it. But everyone needs to let their hair down a little bit more. I don't know.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
I just used 12 analogies. But I think you know what I mean.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
The other thing I would say about communicators, which is less about the attention, but I do think it helps you in this regard, is – One of the things that helped me in being the bridesmaid many times for the press secretary job and never the bride until finally is that you have to know the policy and the policy and the substance of the person you're working for. What do they believe?
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Why do they believe it? What's the answer to the 18th question? Sometimes people think of being a press secretary and this is where people get confused about the attention question as being able to craft a good tweet or X or whatever the hell we're calling it. It's not just that.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
It's like you've got to understand the depth of the housing policy so you can help your boss figure out how to communicate and talk about it in a human way. And sometimes I think that part is undervalued.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
I'm like, I think of like, which I still don't know if I could explain now, but like credit default swaps was like a phrase that came out of my mouth a lot in 2009.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Oh, sometimes we're pro-doge.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Can I give them two more pieces of advice?
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Because we're rooting for these people to bring us back from the brink.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
One is, this is so obvious and old school, but like, why are you running for president? Please determine the answer to that question. The second thing is, figure out what you actually think of a range of policy issues, right? I mean, we go through this thing where you see politicians try to bend themselves into a pretzel answering questions about any range of issues.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And it's like, start with the place. And this is like to comps people who are advising people who may run for president. What do you think about what's happening in Israel? What do you actually think? Right. What do you think should happen with health care? And I think sometimes it gets so wrapped up in like poll tested language and words that it's confusing and it doesn't feel authentic.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And if you piss some people off, that's OK. And I think we've gotten a little bit away from that.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Well, but that is such a good – I will say, just to go back to the New York Times editorial board thing. It's like there is still people who are of the age who might run for president who think if you have a Washington Post op-ed – I keep picking on them. It's really – it's not even Jeff Bezos related. Like that's written in the print form. You're reaching America. I'm here to tell you you're not.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And so actually to Dan's point – Don't be so fragile about like what the name of the outlet is, like who is reaching people and how is it reaching them? And is it reaching the audience you're trying to reach? That's it. It doesn't matter what their name is. Doesn't matter how long they've been around. Doesn't matter what their masthead is or no masthead.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
And that that would serve a lot of people well, too.
Pod Save America
Will Elon Find the Epstein Files Before It's Too Late?
Yes, that's true. Please stop yourself.
The Dan Bongino Show
What Did Zelensky Know? When Did He Know It? (Ep. 2426)
Well, I will say broadly speaking, what Democrat, I don't think it's a Democrats. I'm going to say people on the left do not do that. The right does very well is support within the system, each other. I'm serious. And what I mean by this is this, right? Theo Vaughn appears on Joe Rogan's show, right?
The Dan Bongino Show
What Did Zelensky Know? When Did He Know It? (Ep. 2426)
He promotes what Joe Rogan's doing, but they all promote all of the things each other are doing and what the elected officials, I guess, are doing too. And the left is a little bit more kind of discombobulated in terms of supporting the different entities on the left. There is not a left ecosystem that matches the right ecosystem.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Best of the Week: Trump vs. NBC, Insane CEO Assassination Reaction, Caitlin Clark Bends the Knee
Yes, the tone was different, but it doesn't mean it's a difference in his priorities. So what struck me is more tone, not a difference in what he intends to do or what he wants the people he's nominating to do.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Mm hmm.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
area. Everybody thinks that every federal worker is in the D.C. area. Eighty percent of federal workers are outside of the D.C. area. And this is, I think, something people in the country are learning, that these are your postal workers. These are the people who are working at FBI offices. offices who are keeping your community safe.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
They're the FAA workers who are making sure you can fly safely on the airlines. They're people who are working at the VA. It is not a bunch of, I love government bureaucrats, but it's not a bunch of government bureaucrats. It is a bunch of people working in communities. And I think people are hopefully learning that, but that's an important part of this to understand.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
Yeah. Look, it's the worst assignment in politics. I think you avoid the call and then you always have to say yes. That's sort of what it is when you're doing that speech. That was about as good as it gets, I think, in this moment. I wrote down a couple of other things she said that I think could be good lines for Democrats. I mean, Americans made it clear prices are too high.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
That stuck out to me and I wrote it down because that was something nobody wanted to admit leading up to the November election. And it was like not acknowledging what people were experiencing. And that's a lesson coming out of November. Do his plans actually help people get ahead? That is pretty direct and straightforward. That's a good framing way to look at the question.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
I also think just to say something about Alyssa Slotkin, there's often this question of do Democrats need to find a celebrity, somebody who's outside of politics? Somebody has six million TikTok followers. She's a mom from Michigan. I doubt she's on TikTok. She's just a pretty normal person who happens to be really smart and got elected to the Senate.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
That's the kind of messaging that I think works. The other thing I would just say about the speech, because I think it flows into what she had to say, is I think the speech, I think Democrats need to look at the speech. The volume is the point, as Nicole was saying, right? Volume and chaos and figuring out the whack-a-mole is the point.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
If I am them, I am looking at the Social Security sections of that speech. Trump's speech, yeah. Of the Trump speech. Sorry, to go back to the Trump speech. And I am figuring out how to put that. It's not really a time for television ads, but put that out, respond on that, focus on the thing. You can oppose everything he said, but you have to pick something. A thousand flowers cannot bloom.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
And the Social Security piece, especially given the former Social Security administrator said this week that that program, they may not be able to make payments. They may not make payments in the next 30 to 90 days. That's what he said, Martin O'Malley. So there's a lot of backdrop here. If I'm them, that's what I pick.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Special coverage of Donald Trump's address to a joint session of Congress
But I feel like overall tonight, it's an opportunity for Democrats to try out some material and see what works on the economy.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Party organizers. We've got to be selective. We also have to be able to differentiate between what is shock and awe and what is meaningful action. And even some social media darlings.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I hope people are listening right now who are contemplating whether they can run for office and thinking about it. And I want to talk to you about this because I think sometimes people define it as it's a messaging issue. The policies are all great. They just need to message better. Sounds like you're saying it's more than that.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Yeah, I also think people can sense when something is like a poll-tested, branded thing, right? I mean, I worked in Democratic politics, obviously, more than 20 years. And sometimes when things are branded, even when they have good components of them, like the opportunity agenda, which had a lot of good stuff in it, but it sounds... Not real.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
So here we go. Welcome to The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. For our first conversation, I talked with Maryland Governor Wes Moore just before the Super Bowl. He's obviously a rising star, but I wanted to talk with him because he has one of the most compelling personal stories in politics today.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
On the messaging of it, I mean, one of the things that I learned from trying to sell the Affordable Care Act, which you may remember was quite unpopular for many years, was that it didn't become more popular until it was broken out into different pieces, right? Which sort of seems so obvious looking back in some ways. If your child is under 25, you can keep them on your health insurance.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
This will cover pre-existing conditions, things like that. You, I mean, you just gave your state of the state. You talked about a lot of specifics in there. A lot of it was on the economy and addressing needs of the working class. What have you learned about how to talk about these issues? Because is the economy the number one issue in Maryland? I assume so.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Everywhere. But what have you learned about how to talk about it in a way that people connect with?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
He's blunt about where the party is falling short, and he also doesn't shy away from showing up in places you may not expect.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
One of the many reasons I want to talk to you is that you actually talk to human beings every day. And sometimes when you're in Washington and I've lived here on and off for 20 years, you get a little disconnected from how people are actually talking about things.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And as we look back at the election and more importantly, how we look forward, I mean, some of the areas where Trump made gains were among a slight gain, some gains among young black men, a larger one among Latino men. Do you think that's about the policies? Is it about how they're talked about? Is it about misinformation? As we're looking back but trying to look forward, what do you make of that?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
That conversation is next on The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. This is where we just get crazy.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I read a lot of your recent interviews you've done. So then this really stuck out to me. I wrote it on a piece of paper. You talked about the bastardization of patriotism, which I thought was such an interesting. And you can talk about this because you're a veteran. Everybody can't talk about this, in my view.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Okay. Governor Moore, it's great to see you.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And one of the things that has struck me over many years of being involved in politics is Fox News is playing in every military base. The military, I think, is largely conservative leaning, which, you know, and there is an ownership of the flag and patriotism by members of the Republican Party, regardless of what that means. How do Democrats flip that? How do they regain it?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You don't think they care right now?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I may have met you briefly before this, but I think I met you for the first time a year and a half ago when I came to visit you in Annapolis.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
It was very fun. And we talked all about your background. You have kind of this, what I would consider a fascinating, unique background. You probably didn't bet as a kid that you were going to be the governor of a state.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
We always like to end on a positive note because we're having real candid, sometimes dark convos here. You're a positive-vibed guy. I think it's fair to say. I think a lot of people listening right now are having a hard time with what the country's going through, what they're seeing, the impact. Some people are feeling like, I don't want to be engaged. I'm taking myself out of this.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Some people are feeling like, I just don't want to consume the news. What do you say to people? I mean, you have to do this every day. You're the governor. So what do you say to people about why it's important to stay engaged and what keeps you engaged, aside from your day job, of course?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
But you grew up with a single mom. You have an amazing story. She's an amazing woman. You were in the military. You're a veteran. You're a Rhodes Scholar. You ran the Robin Hood Foundation. And all of this, I think, makes for a unique background. I want to get into all of it. But it's the Super Bowl this weekend. This is going to air right after this. Super Bowl.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Governor Westmore, a perfect place to end. Thank you so much for joining me today.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
As a subscriber, you'll also get exclusive bonus content that we're excited to share with you later in the series. The senior producer for The Blueprint is Margaret Menefee, and our producer is Vicky Virgilina. John Ball is our associate producer. Our booking producer is Michelle Hoffner, and we had additional support from McKenna Roberts, Will Robbie, and Matt Rivera.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory and Katie Lau, and Bryson Barnes is the head of audio production. Alex Lupica is the executive producer of Inside with Jen Psaki, and Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNBC Audio. I'm your host, Jen Psaki. Remember to search for The Blueprint wherever you get your podcasts and follow the series.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I may make you make a prediction, but we'll kind of see where it goes. But one of the things that made me think about is we love football in my house. We're Bengals fans. Sorry. My condolences. You're a Ravens fan. My six-year-old, we have Ravens fans across the street because we live in Arlington, but they're still Ravens fans. And he will say to our neighbor who is six foot five, Boo Ravens.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Let's just think about who we're talking smack to for a second. That's our friend, but he's 6'5", you're 40 pounds.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And Joe Burrow, I will tell you, if he came to my in-law's house, my mother-in-law would be like, what kind of pie do you want? I will make you 700 meals. When there was a rumor that he was engaged, we had a family text chain. My mother-in-law was like, he's too young. He's not ready yet. I was like, I think he's the age when you got married. But anyway, that aside.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
But I wanted to do because football, I mean, it's watched by more Americans than anything else. And it is sort of a unifier in the sense that tens of millions of people are going to sit down and watch the Super Bowl. And I love sports, too. I was a swimmer, not a football player.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
He won the popular vote by the smallest margin of any president since Nixon. But he did win six swing states. That one blew last time. And he is now sitting in the Oval Office. So how did we get here? And more importantly, I've been thinking a lot about where the Democrats go from here.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
But one of the things I love about it is at the end of the game, everybody shakes hands and there may be smack talking, but you kind of move forward. But you have done a number of things. You went to the Army-Navy game. You saw Trump there, of course. We can dive into that if you want. You were shotgunning a beer at the Ravens game.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I want you to know, because we're about the same age, that when I saw that, I was like, I could still do that. I think I could still shotgun a beer. If so, you did that. You worked out with the Ravens, I think.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And the University of Maryland. Who's in better shape? Which one of them?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
I didn't want to undervalue your participation.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Well, yeah, they're in their 20s. When I worked for President Obama, he used to sometimes work out, I'm going to put that in quotes, with college basketball players. And he's a pretty tall guy. He's in shape. But you see these athletes in person and you're like, no, you're younger, but you're just like, you're a superior- Yes.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
There's levels to this. But what's interesting to me about this is you clearly love football as a person. You haven't been afraid to show that.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Why have you decided to do all this in the public?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Because questions are hard and they warrant longer and definitely more introspective conversations than a short segment on TV allows for. Plus, the actions of the Trump administration and our efforts to try to understand them and explain them, it all takes up a lot of oxygen. So I wanted to have a place to discuss what the Democrats are doing to regain power.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Yeah, I mean, what I love about this is, and I figured this since you played football in college, you clearly love it, is that sometimes I think Democrats are afraid to show their sides that are not, you know, one of the great things about a lot of Democrats and Democratic Party is it's like the kids who sat in the front of the class who wanted to get an A in AP history in high school.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You know, you're a Rhodes Scholar. You don't have anything to prove. Yeah. But a lot of people seem afraid to show their personal side, their silly side, their human side.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You weren't practicing your inaugural address when you were 11 in the mirror?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Yeah, that's a good thing to remember. When you run into constituents or people, Marylanders, who don't know you well or meeting you for the first time, do they say, do you really like football? Or do they ask you questions? Do they quiz you or they...
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You just teed me up because this is going to air the morning after the Super Bowl. So who wins? Who's MVP?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
It prompted me to call up some people I've known a very long time, some who I think just have interesting and different perspectives, to take a candid look at what just happened and talk about what they think the blueprint should be for Democrats winning again.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
What do you think? There's so much I want to talk to you about, but I just want to ask you one more question about sports. I mean, I was a college swimmer, and what I learned about that in terms of my life moving forward is that there's nothing worse than a three-hour swim practice at 5 a.m. in Connecticut where it's 15 degrees. And there's a maniacalness about swimming.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You just, like, are doing the same thing continuously. What have you taken away from sports that has helped you approach your job as governor?
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Hi there, it's Jen Psaki. I spent 20 years working in Democratic politics, and now I'm the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Psaki. And since November, I, probably like most of you, have been spending a lot of time thinking about what gave us another Donald Trump presidency. Now, to be clear, Trump didn't win in a landslide.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
That's a good mantra. We have a saying, one of those cheesy saying things, right when you walk out of the door in our basement that I make my kids look at sometimes, it's about you never get this day back, which is, I think, in a reminder. So I mentioned at the start of our conversation, you just have a really interesting background. I mean, you were raised by a single mom.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
You also spent a couple of years running the Robin Hood Foundation. And for people who aren't familiar with it, I mean, and you can tell me if this is the accurate description. Yeah. basically focused on addressing poverty. And it's a really incredible organization.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
And because of your background, because of that, I want to ask you just about the Democrats' inability, I will say, define it as, to connect on issues that impact working people, lower income families, and how you think about that.
The Rachel Maddow Show
Listen to “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki”
Just get a job and we'll give you some benefits.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I'm like, does everybody know what that means? Maybe they do. But I was like, this is what it is. And people were messaging me on social media platforms. Always dangerous when you look that up and they're like, we know what it is. Stop explaining it to us. It's like, well, okay.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Sorry, but I think there is a following the soccer ball of, you know, everybody's calling it a tech oligarchy. We're all talking about fascism. It's not that they're not issues. It's just that that message was not connecting with a majority of the public. And so that's where I think there needs to be a readdressing.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I would also like to know how do they know they've destroyed the data that they pulled out when they had access to it? I'd also like to know what can Congress exactly do? I mean, if we're calling on them to do things and Democrats are in the minority, they have limited power. What should they push to do? I mean, should there be a push to subpoena people from Doge? I think so.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I mean, these are some of the things, yes, I've lived in Washington and worked here on and off for a long time, but we've never been in this exact scenario before. So the piece that I'm most interested in Is what now? Right. What what are the levers that can be used? Obviously, the courts have been active. How many of these cases could go to the Supreme Court?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
They're only going to pull probably pick maybe a few. I don't know. But that's what legal experts say. Which ones and what does that mean for executive power? These are the questions I also have that I think to me.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
you know, one of the wake up, well, I don't know if it was a wake up call, but one of the things I've thought a lot about since the election was if we're out there every day and screaming fascism, constitutional crisis, the world is ending. It's like, well, it's not answering people's questions, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
If they're ending the show and that's all I'm screaming at them, what did they learn or what did they gain from the experience of watching the show? And now, as you know, sometimes you have people on And you ask them these questions and they don't answer them or they can't answer them or they don't have the information. And that's fine.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But in this moment, as it's so fast moving, I also feel this interest but also responsibility to try to kind of pull out what are the levers that can be done? What are the checks on power that can still be utilized?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
On all of us? What was the punishment on?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I don't see that yet either. That is not to go back to plug my own podcast, and I'm not really trying to do that, but I'm going to do it for a second. Hey, what the? Well, listen. Son of a bitch. All right. This was actually one of the things in the weeks after the election where I felt like – It wasn't that I was shocked out of my mind that Trump won. I mean, I've been in politics.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I've traveled around the country. But how did this happen and why did this happen and what can be learned from it, which I think is pivotal to understanding in order to figure out how to move forward, which I think is the part of what I'm hearing from what you're saying. And I don't think there's one answer. And I know that there are efforts in different places to explore that question.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think the DNC is doing one. I don't know what will come out of that. I'm keeping my expectations low. But that's sort of, to me, it is a multitude of things. It is how how the Democrats are communicating about issues. But it's also maybe it's a policy question, too. And let's not all just call it a messaging issue because it may not just be a messaging issue.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
It's misinformation and disinformation. And that's not just everybody shorthands this as if Democrats only appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast. I'm like, I'm not sure. I don't know that he's inviting many. Maybe he is, but that's not the only answer. I think there's a lot of layers of it. It's also the kind of candidates people run. That's not a hack on Kamala Harris.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I mean, in different races as well. And sometimes there have been purity tests in the Democratic Party that aren't particularly constructive. The purity test should be, can you win? And will you be a part of the caucus? Because the majority helps make things happen. I don't have an answer yet, but this is the thing that I want to explore.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I do think – and sometimes – I don't want to say too principled because that is not a good thing to say. But I think principled, yes. The Democratic Party writ large are defenders of institutions that make the country run. The rule of law. This is part of the problem, right? Right. They are believers in the separation of government.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
First of all, now I'm going to keep thinking about Donald Trump swinging his thing, which is a phrase you just- Please don't do that.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Okay. I think- What it is exposing is how he thinks the world should work, right? And how he thinks business, to your point, should work.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I don't think that actually government does work that way.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think there are corrupt people in both parties. And we know that for, look, Eric Adams. Well, I guess he's who knows what's happening with him next. You know, Menendez. There are corrupt people. But I think that for the most part, the people who have been leading the Democratic Party, at least in recent years, have been trying to do good things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
in more of a way of protecting rule of law, of trying to stand up for people in this country than what we have seen from what has become Trump's Republican Party. It's not the party of Mitt Romney or John McCain anymore from what that version of the Republican Party is.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, but that may be giving him too much credit.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I understand that. But also he loves Vladimir Putin and loves his dictatorial nature. And I think he also might be inclined to just say, you know what, you take whatever land you want and we'll end this whole thing. And then I can say I ended this war. I don't know that he's actually going to stick to what he said about Ukraine. And who knows? But like he says all sorts of things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I hear what you're saying. I think the history of the country led by Democrats and Republicans is imperfect. There's many moments even before Afghanistan, even before Iraq, et cetera.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But what I'm getting at, I think, is that Trump, I mean, what he is rebuilding the government as is in the model of loyalty to him, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And that is not what I think leaders from other parties, I mean, Republicans too, have ever tried to do in modern history.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Maybe at times. I mean, and there are times.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, look, I think there are also realities of, you know, and I worked at the State Department for a couple of years and you'd go to meetings and you would do a readout of the meeting. And oftentimes it was like, oh, we have to mention that we raised human rights. Right. And the human rights mention would have been five seconds of a two hour meeting. That is a truth because there are.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
It is. And right. And if you don't cut the Defense Department budget, you're not going to make the cuts. Anyway, that's an aside. I do think, though, just to go back to I do think most people who run for president and I know there are exceptions in history and we can talk about them, but do it because they want to make the country a better place, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
They want to defend people and represent people in the country. I don't think they do it necessarily because they want to, you know, have cheaper labor. Nobody runs. That's not what they have in their mind.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes, I know what you're saying. However, I do think that the current situation we're dealing with is a very different destruct from internal.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think it's different. Okay. And I think it's far more destructive. If you look at—we've already talked, I know, about the getting into the payment systems, which is concerning. We've already talked about stopping programs that are benefiting people across the country. Then there's also now this loyalty test for people applying to work in intelligence and law enforcement.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
These are things that are rebuilding the government infrastructure in the model of Donald Trump, right? And that model across all of those branches or across all of those elements is based on pure loyalty to him and embracing kind of, as you said, the corrupt approach to governing that he thinks is okay.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes. And I think that part of that was not addressing and listening to the core people who should have been the base and who are the base, I think, of the Democratic Party, which is a lot of working people who are impacted by exactly those policies you just outlined. Um, so yes, it is different things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And part of it is also, there are things that on its surface are that Trump has said are, I mean, government is bloated. It is inefficient. Um, and there are reasons why that should be addressed. The way to do that is not to have Elon Musk go, you know, target people who have attended DEI trainings, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Tell me what do you mean by I don't disagree with you necessarily, but what do you mean by that?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You mean because it didn't have a public option in it?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yeah. So, yes, I think we're saying, well, I'm trying to say something similar, which is this. Which is Democrats just lost everything. They control nothing. They control. I mean, they don't control the House. They don't control the Senate. They don't control the White House and they don't control the Supreme Court. So now is the time to break some shit. Right. And break some China.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, that's right. I don't even, it's like an overwhelming. And I, you know, I hear the public option. Look, I worked for Obama. He was, would have been for the public option. He didn't think it could get through, right? Was he wrong? Maybe he was wrong.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But what is he, what has he produced though? I mean, he doesn't, even if he sees tariffs as a success, it's not going to be, but he even had to pull back from that. It's like, what are the outcomes of his success of his grand proclamations?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
So that is what he wanted. Right. So he got some things he wanted. What I'm getting at is like, yes, the Affordable Care Act, imperfect. But there would be, or it's that, it would have been that or nothing. That's how I think people at the time felt. And you disagree.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
No, you can—everybody gets a zillion press releases and pitch calls, but no.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Oh, no. You determine, we determine, each of us for our shows, here's what I'm going to cover today, and here's what I'm going to talk about, and here's what I think is important, which there is an independence-ish of that, and there also is— you're not waiting to be told what to say about anything. You're going to say what you think. So people can trust that. And that is a good thing.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You mean in terms of ratings?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
The greatest thing he did because it led them to be an arm piece, a mouthpiece of the right wing.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And MSNBC, I am unburdened by not having, I can share whatever I think. I have obviously worked in democratic politics for 20 years. I don't hide anything about that. It is a progressive leaning network. But nobody is, to the frustration at times of many elected Democrats, it is not a mouthpiece of the Democratic Party.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
What do you think that should be?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Great to be here. I loved how you said Robinette there, first of all. I'll just note that.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, here's the thing with a macro view though, a macro view where every show does the same thing. And maybe you're saying, you think, no, you're not saying that. Okay.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, I will say, broadly speaking, I don't think it's the Democrats. I'm going to say people on the left do not do that the right does very well is support within the system each other. I'm serious. And what I mean by this is this, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Theo Vaughn appears on Joe Rogan's show, right? He promotes what Joe Rogan's doing. But they all promote all of the things each other are doing and what the elected officials, I guess, are doing too. And the left is a little bit more kind of discombobulated in terms of supporting the different entities on the left. There is not a left ecosystem that matches the right ecosystems.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Don't you think they're the – but they are still in the right-wing ecosystem. Wouldn't you agree?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Has nothing to do with politics. And oftentimes, but they are- Almost entirely. But they are supportive of the Trump enterprise is what I mean. So maybe I'm loosely putting them in that category.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I was hoping you were going to tell me.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I don't say that. I don't think most people on MSN, I know what you're saying. I mean, look, this moment of the last three weeks has exposed exactly that issue. This notion that, and I think a lot of the media is guilty of this, is the, we have to be equal and down the middle. And look at how reasonable what Mike Johnson just said.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You're like, is it reasonable because it's less crazy than what Tom Cotton says? That doesn't make it reasonable, right? It's like, it's like, Rank order of things, you know, because we have to be fair and give everybody equal consideration.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, I know you're a big fan of the briefing room and how it operates.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I'm just kidding. Removed! Look, I think the thing that was frustrating about the media, two things, couple things. This is a therapy session, but I'll be short. One is... There is a performative nature, something I know you've talked about and everybody knows about the briefing room. And that was created by television, largely.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And what it means is that if you're in the briefing room and you watch a whole briefing, which most people don't, even if they're consuming the briefing, it is extremely repetitive. So six people asking the same questions because they need the clip for their package, right? Are you moving? Are you moving the story forward? Is that hard when you're the press secretary?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
No, it's hard only because by question seven, you're annoyed and then you can't be annoyed. You have to be, um, that is a challenge. The twisting yourself into pretzels in order to seem equal and balanced is driving me up the wall currently. Um,
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
The third thing is I think the responsibility of a press secretary, whether in White House or anywhere, is to be extremely informed on the policy and the substance. That's what it is. Actually, most of the job is not edgy and it's not arguing with Peter Doocy. It is like spending – I mean that was fun. But like it's spending hours in your office explaining –
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
The nuclear deal, explaining whatever may be happening in negotiations with Congress, that is not the sexiest part of the job, right? But that's the majority of the job. It's true for reporters, too. The best reporters who cover the White House are experts and super substantive and informed about the policies they're asking about, which is why when I was the press secretary—
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Not to pick on Peter Doocy. We had a good relationship. But I was never concerned about answering his questions. It was when I would see David Sanger, who's a New York Times reporter who's covered nuclear issues for 30 years, in the room. And I was like, shit, he's going to have a hard question. But what I have seen happen—and I blame this on the first Trump administration—
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
is this sort of addiction to trending, right? From some of these reporters, not all of them, there's a lot of good ones in there, where they literally would complain when I was the press secretary on background, meaning not with their name, that it was just, too boring because it was returning to too many policy briefings. And it's like, welcome, everybody. That's what we do here, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
If you want to cover something sexy, go cover Hollywood. I don't know. Like, we're nerdy. So I don't know. I just gave you a very long answer. But a couple of things that I think make the system, to state the obvious, it's outdated. That was what I was going to— It's not how people consume information.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
It is also—when I was leaving, I was Obama's communications director, and when I was leaving, well, we thought Hillary Clinton was going to win, so there's that. Obviously, that didn't happen. I would have told them—and I don't want to speak for Josh, but I think he would have said the same thing— change and modernize what you're doing in there, right?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I mean, do it twice a week and do one day that's just regional press. Bring people in on a screen. To Sean Spicer's credit, I mean, I know he wasn't like the success measure of this job, but like he at times brought in a screen of people who didn't live in Washington. There's a million things you can do and modernize it. And the reason that we didn't do that when I started is because
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
We were coming in at a point where there was such a trampling on the freedom of press. We felt like we needed to return to a very traditional approach. Maybe that was the right approach. Maybe it wasn't. But meaning you call on AP first. You have a briefing every day. You allow them to ask their questions. But, yes, it's overdue for modernization for sure. Right.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
10 and a half years to three weeks. Somewhere between three weeks to 10 and a half years.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, so, okay, I know this is your podcast and not mine.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I was going to ask you, because I have found this in my brief array into podcasting, is that the conversations are just a lot more... Flowing in a different way than when you're on... There's something about being on a... And you've done this a lot longer than me. But being on a television set where it's like you have to deliver your monologue or your script in a certain way.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
And you can't just sit there and be like, hey, I'm Jen, what's up? Because that would seem weird on TV. But on a podcast or a different conversation, you can.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, by pace, I mean, I think the amount of activity and movement is a lot, right? But it's that kind of movement. I think what is very different, to state the obvious, is the absolute gutting of agencies and civil servants and people who have worked in government for decades. That's not something obviously we did or any Democratic or Republican administration has done.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think I agree with that. I mean, it is people feel that the system is broken and working against them.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That is something that I think, and I'm not that many Democrats might understand and agree with, but don't articulate that and don't connect with people about how broken they feel the system is. Um, And I also think the policy solutions don't feel always bold enough. And sometimes they are.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That's true. I also think they're overcomplicated by, and this is the tertiary example just to come back, but the packaging of them.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That is true. And now some regulations are good. Like we like clean air and water.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Right. Yes. But yeah. But again, there are there are there is a clear a message from the election is clearly people feel disappointed and pissed off with government. And it's like, what are you going to do about it now? Now, I am scared for what Trump, because three weeks in, I'm already feeling like I need to lay down. But I, you know, I'm not going to lay down. But I'm concerned.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I try very hard not to be scared. project fear. I'm not fearful as a person. I'm concerned about what he could do in this period of time, but there's a huge opportunity here on the political front for Democrats.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yeah, because he's not going to implement it the right way. He doesn't know how to address the things he's saying are the problems.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, one of the ways I process it is that I feel like when Democrats, and including people who are on television in a variety of ways, were saying things like authoritarianism is under threat and democracy is on the ballot, I think we were speaking in a manner that was so academic and ivory tower, it wasn't talking about a lot of the things people actually care about.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
So I don't know that people voted against democracy. I think they voted in some ways against protection of status quo and kind of the disconnected academic ivory tower elite language that is too often used by Democrats, sometimes on cable television. What? I'm just being honest.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I'm being honest. No, that was one of my takeaways after the election was like, cross authoritarianism and oligarchy out of every script. Nobody talks this way.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Um, I don't think that's the only thing, but I do think looking back at the election, one of the outcomes, I hope people who are not thrilled by the Trump administration, which is a whole lot of people take away is that Democrats and people running, weren't talking to a large swath of the country. They were kind of talking to a small group of people, um,
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
They were talking to people who were primarily focused on things that were, in my view, more academic than they were real issues.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes. So I think the threat of fascism is a huge issue. The threat of authoritarianism, huge issue. This guy is an aspiring dictator. His words, not mine. All of those are huge issues. I also think Liz Cheney is very heroic.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Here we are. But I don't think closing the campaign with a message of about fighting democracy with a former Republican member of Congress was the right strategy. I'm not saying that's why they lost.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
What I'm saying is there were millions of people who didn't turn out to vote, many of whom have in the past leaned toward Democratic issues, leaned toward Democratic candidates. And Trump somehow massively won on issues like the economy, even though his primary position is that he wants to lower tax cuts for corporations and the highest income Americans.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
That reality means maybe something isn't going well.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You're right. Maybe progressives is not – let me just – you're right. That is not the right way, progressives, to describe it. It's elites is the right way to describe it.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Is this how press secretaries – when you're in the back room – I just acknowledged I was wrong in one of the things I said.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, I think the Democratic message speak still needs a lot of work. But I think that as just to go back to the original part of your question on the press secretary job.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think the people who do it best or try to do it the best are the ones who are policy focused on the policy. and understanding it so that you could answer the 18th question. You're not worried about exactly every word. You're not trying to like, I'm going to say this thing and it's going to be a zinger and go viral. Like you don't think like that.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
You think about understanding the policy so that you can push the system internally and provide more information publicly. That's not always how people think it works, but that's how it should work and how I think it worked or tried to make it work when I was in the job.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yeah, I would take it just one step farther. And I worked at the State Department. I think USAID is a tremendous institution. I don't think it should be a front and center top messaging argument. Should people in Congress defend and use every lever of their power to prevent the Trump administration from gutting it?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Yes, because they play a pivotal role around the world, cracking down on corruption, defending a free press, a million things.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
But I guess when it comes to how the Democrats are communicating with the public, the things that the Trump administration are doing that they should be talking about more, in my view, are getting access to people's personnel information, their Social Security data, people, anybody who's applied for a government job. That's millions of people.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Halting programs, which a judge this week said they haven't actually put back in place all of the funding halts, halting of the funding that they said they had. Those are the kind of things that if you are not really if you think government is government's not popular, as you all know, Congress is not popular.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Right, I don't know. Institution's not popular. So if you're trying to reach people who are like, ugh, government, Washington, then talk about how this program that's being cut off is helping your kids have early childhood education. It's helping you get Medicaid access. It's helping you farmers have subsidies.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I've retired from the world of Democratic messaging in some ways. I think some people do it better than others. I think it is easy to get caught up in. We're in a constitutional crisis, and we very well may be. I'm not trying to downplay that reality.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
When you have a president, which seems to be what's happening, and an administration who are defying a court order, that is ignoring the one branch of government. That is technically, I think as lawyers would define it, a constitutional crisis.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
A road to a constitutional crisis. How's that? That's what a press secretary does. See?
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
Well, there may be. And then you're like, how did she incorporate cigarettes, giraffes, Zimbabwe? It's like some sort of brain genius that my brain doesn't function that way. Yeah, I think some people do it better than others.
The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart
Agreeing & Disagreeing with Jen Psaki
I think there is an ease in using some of this rhetoric that is applauded by people who are very loud on social media platforms when it's like, it is an oligarchy or it is... You know, yesterday, last night on my show, I talked about what a constitutional crisis actually is because people keep throwing around constitutional crisis, constitutional crisis.