Amid the ongoing economic fallout of Trump's tariffs, Jen Psaki is joined by Senator Elizabeth Warren to discuss the profound impact on American families, as well as Congress's ability to revoke the president's authority. They also discuss how widespread outrage over Trump's agenda has mobilized thousands to take to the streets in protest. Later, fired former pardon attorney Elizabeth Oyer and Rep. Jamie Raskin join to discuss the DOJ's intimidation tactics aimed at silencing Oyer before she testified in a "shadow hearing" led by Raskin and Senator Adam Schiff.Check out our social pages below:https://twitter.com/InsideWithPsakihttps://www.instagram.com/InsideWithPsaki/https://www.tiktok.com/@insidewithpsakihttps://www.msnbc.com/jen-psakihttps://bsky.app/profile/insidewithpsaki.msnbc.com
Chapter 1: What is the impact of Trump's tariffs on the economy?
OK, the first thing I should tell you tonight is that Senator Elizabeth Warren is standing by here in the studio. She was one of the most powerful voices calling for accountability during the financial crisis. She has not been quiet since then.
And whenever there's madness around the American economy, in my view, there's no one more effective at explaining what the heck is happening and what can be done about it than Senator Warren. She's going to join me in just a few more minutes. The other thing I should tell you about is that Donald Trump is doing his very best to play it cool right now.
He wants you to believe, he wants all of us to believe that he has everything under control, even things that are very much out of control. His behavior kind of reminds me a bit of an arsonist who's pretending there is no fire when he's the guy who threw the match and lit the actual fire. I mean, his actions caused the market to plummet.
His actions have caused people to worry about their retirement savings and how much everything is going to cost. Of course they are. And he's doing everything possible to pretend like none of that is happening. Like there is no fire at all. I mean, the guy took a long weekend. Good for him, I guess. Spending time at two different resorts he owns in Florida.
Chapter 2: How is Trump responding to the economic crisis?
He appeared at a Saudi-backed live golf tournament, and he played some golf of his own. He even posted a video of himself golfing on social media, as if to make absolutely certain we all knew where he was and what he was doing. There he is. That's the video. Nothing to be concerned about, everyone. I am so relaxed while the market tanks that I am playing golf and hanging with my Saudi buddies.
A White House official described the optics of a president hitting the links while the economy was in free fall as, quote, going to a birthday party after a friend has surgery. A little weird, but that is one way to put it, certainly. Then this morning, Donald Trump's message to the American people was telling them not to be weak, not to be stupid. We got this, America. Don't be wussies.
And it's not even just him. I mean, his fellow arsonists, whether they knew it or not, had a pretty clear message for the American people this weekend when they were out on Sunday talk shows. Let them eat cake. Here's Treasury Secretary Scott Besson.
What is your message to Americans who want to retire right now and who've just seen their lifetime savings drop significantly?
Chapter 3: What are the concerns of American families regarding retirement?
I think that's a false narrative. Americans who want to retire right now, the Americans who have put away for years in their savings account, I think they don't look at the day-to-day fluctuations of what's happening.
No one is looking at the day-to-day fluctuations of their savings account, says uber-rich Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. And honestly, he sounds a little bit like he was prepped by the same communications staffer, maybe he was, who's been advising his colleague, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick.
Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother-in-law, who's 94... she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She'd think something got messed up, and she'll get it next month. A fraudster always makes the loudest noise screaming, yelling, and complaining.
There really is nothing like a couple of billionaires who are pretty out of touch really speaking to the fears of the American public, is there?
But as Donald Trump plays golf and tweets through it and sends out guys like Scott Besson and Howard Letnick to pretend like they relate to working people living paycheck to paycheck, it's important for you to know that these guys are kind of on a bit of an island right now. I mean, for one thing, even their fellow billionaires are freaked, for good reason.
Bill Ackman, who was a big Trump backer in 2024, lashed out at the Trump administration on Twitter last night. He accused Howard Letnick of having a conflict of interest and wanting to profit off a tanking economy. He also said that these tariffs are sending us toward a self-induced economic nuclear winter.
That from a guy who just a few months ago was saying the business community was giddy with excitement about the Donald Trump administration and that growth was about to explode. That one didn't really age so well, did it, Bill Ackman? Now, as for Larry Fink, who's the CEO of the world's largest money manager, BlackRock, he said today that his fellow CEOs believe we're already in a recession.
And Mark Cuban, not exactly a Trump supporter, I know, but he's a legit billionaire and someone who calls it like he sees it. And he said that if the new tariffs stay in place for multiple years and are enforced in inflationary and Doge continues to cut and fire, we will be in a far worse situation than 2008. Worse than 2008 is very, very bad, to state perhaps the very obvious.
And even the cable news channel that Donald Trump watches all day long is starting to come to terms with the reality of the situation, it seems.
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Chapter 4: How are small businesses affected by tariffs?
Now, do Republicans in Congress all care about rising costs and retirement accounts of their constituents getting wiped out? It's my sincere hope that many of them do. But what they definitely care about is keeping their jobs. That I know for sure.
And that is one of the reasons why a bill in the Senate to curb Donald Trump's power on tariffs now has seven, count them, seven, you can see them all on the screen, Republican co-sponsors. Now, this bill would require that new tariffs sunset after 60 days unless Congress passes a joint resolution approving them, which they probably wouldn't do.
And seven Republicans are saying very loudly and clearly that that is a good idea. I should point out that two of the Republicans on that list, Tom Tillis and Susan Collins, are the two most vulnerable Republicans, or two of them, up for reelection in 2026. Again, hopefully they care about what's happening to the people they represent. That's why people send them to Congress.
But they definitely care about keeping their jobs. And for Mike Johnson, a little note for you, Republicans in the House also care about getting their jobs, too. It's not just the Senate. And yet Mike Johnson was so afraid of pushing back on Trump over tariffs that he literally gave up the power to rein him in.
Last month, at the height of the government shutdown fight, Johnson snuck in a vote where House Republicans basically gave away their ability to cancel the Trump tariffs. But now there are some Republicans in the House who want that power back. Of course they do. And some who at least want a little bit more clarity from the White House on what their actual plan is.
During a House Republican conference call yesterday, Republican Congressman Daryl Issa asked if lawmakers could receive a detailed briefing from the White House about Trump's tariffs. Zip to say, hey, if you guys are going to tank the economy, can you at least tell us why? What's the plan here?
Congressman French Hill, who is also the chairman of the House Foreign Relations Financial Relations Committee, said that the Trump administration has been great to work with on a whole host of issues. OK, but he's been frustrated when it comes to how the White House has operated on tariffs. You think?
And one Republican in the House, Don Bacon, has said he will introduce a bill in the House that would limit Trump's ability to impose tariffs without the backing of Congress, just like the one in the Senate. So could this move forward? Could Republicans show a spine and vote with Democrats to stop the tariffs? Some of them are showing a bit of a spine.
But I'm not holding my breath because they need many more votes than that. But the point is the pressure is building. And Trump is worried enough that he actually issued a formal veto threat today about a bill, by the way, that is not yet scheduled to be voted on and does not yet have the votes to pass.
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Chapter 5: What actions is Congress taking against Trump's tariff powers?
She also sits in the Senate Finance Committee. She knows how to talk about and explain these issues better than anyone I know. We're in Professor Warren's class right now, a little bit. So let me start there because I really, a lot of people are just digesting this around the country. And, you know, today Trump said that maybe some of the tariffs could be permanent.
We don't know that to be the case, but just help us understand what the impact of that could be.
So understand it this way. Donald Trump has done massive tariffs. And this comes from someone who actually believes that tariffs are an important tool in our economic toolbox. There are good times to use it. We want to onshore a supply chain that we want to protect. We want to make more pharmaceuticals here. We want to make more cars here.
But you do this very carefully and you do it in combination with things you're doing domestically to support so that work actually gets done. Not Donald Trump comes in and basically starts the dumbest trade war in the history of this country. And then when the markets respond, when people respond by saying, oh, my God, This changes everything I do.
And now we have economists out there debating, are we already in a recession? We have Goldman Sachs, Jamie Dimon saying, yeah, I think we're already there. You are quoting some of the folks. The head of the Fed on Friday saying prices are going to go up and unemployment can go up at the same time, which is the worst of all worlds. So that's all the big noise.
But the way this hits families, one household at a time, This is going to be about potentially millions of people losing their jobs. It's going to be about millions of people losing their savings, many people losing their retirement security, and at the same time, taking on even higher costs for everything they buy.
So that's going to push us in potentially to foreclosures or people being pushed out of their apartments. You know, I remember this from 2008 and how long it took us to dig our way out. And to this day, there are families, there are communities that still haven't recovered. Recessions can be all those fancy charts and graphs.
But at the end of the day, people feel them one person at a time and they can be devastating.
I was thinking of you and I was so grateful you were able to come on because one of the and I just read this, but Mark Cuban posted this today. He said, if the new tariffs stay in place for multiple years and are enforced and inflationary and Doge continues to cut and fire, which is also having an impact on the economy, we will be in a far worse situation than 2008.
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Chapter 6: What do recent protests reveal about American sentiment?
Had any of those individuals applied for a pardon, they would have been in due course fully vetted on an individualized basis, and the office would have formed a recommendation about the individual applicants, which would have been provided to the president. The role is to ensure that people who are waiting their turn, who have meritorious cases, that those cases can be
make their way to the president's desk. Those folks who have access to the White House through the front door, they don't need the help of the Office of the Pardon Attorney to elevate their cause. And there are thousands of ordinary Americans who are seeking the mercy of the president through the clemency process who are not being considered right now because the office is not being consulted.
Joining us now is Liz Oyer. She served in the federal government for 13 years and as a U.S. pardon attorney since 2022 until her firing last month. Also with us is Congressman Jamie Raskin. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee and helped organize today's shadow hearing. Liz, there's so many things I want to ask you about.
I think the power, the pardon power of presidents is something that people don't always understand because it's been there's been a process followed. So I want to get there. But I just start first with. The fact that this letter was sent, they intended to have two armed special deputy U.S. marshals. They were directed to serve the letter to your home between 9 and 10 p.m.
on Friday night, which as I understand it, you had a teenage child, teenager, who was home by themselves. My kids are not that old, but as a mother, I feel a lot of rage on your behalf. But how, what went through your mind when you learned about that?
Yeah. I mean, my child is a teenager now, but still and always my baby. And I was with my parents who are getting older now. And I had this phone conversation in which I learned that there were law enforcement officers armed. Armed law enforcement officers is the phrase that was used on their way to my home where my child was home alone. My parents were in the car when I received this news.
It was just incredibly upsetting to my entire family. And I feel so thankful that the person who called me to give me a heads up that this was happening did that. Otherwise, no. My child would have answered the door to two armed law enforcement officers at 10 o'clock at night at my home, which would have been terrifying for my entire family and very upsetting.
I mean, frankly, just learning that that was in the works was incredibly upsetting.
I find it incredibly upsetting and outrageous. You still testified today, even after that happened. I can't imagine how grateful you are for that. It's very courageous. There are a lot of other people. There are others who testified today. There are other people that you want to testify in the future.
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Chapter 7: How can the Senate potentially stop Trump's tariffs?
But look, you know, we could be in court with these people for the rest of our lives. And we might be because of just the velocity of lawbreaking taking place by Donald Trump. But ultimately, we're going to get out of this nightmare by people engaging in courageous action everywhere in America.
law firms in their offices, the workplace, schools, universities, everywhere, because what we have is an authoritarian takeover of the whole society going on right now.
One of the reasons, one of the many reasons it was so important for people to hear from you today is people don't, I don't know that everybody understands what a pardon attorney does. You're overseeing the office. It's not how it's supposed to work.
I wanted to play that kind of what you said about these, the January 6th defendants, because that doesn't shock me, but it should be shocking that you were the person who should have gone through and approved this. And you learned about it, I think you said, on the news.
What should people out there understand about how the pardon process is supposed to work and what the risks are about the way that it is currently working in the Trump administration?
I'm glad you asked about that, Jen, because this work was so deeply meaningful to me. The work of of clemency is the work of granting people mercy, second chances through this unbelievable passage. power that the president has, he can literally correct an injustice with a stroke of a pen. And that is what the clemency power is there for in the Constitution.
But it is an unchecked presidential power. The president has total discretion. And the purpose of the established process is to ensure that there are some safeguards around the use of the clemency power. It's to ensure that the clemency power is not just politicized, but that it's used in a fair way for the benefit of all deserving Americans.
And right now, or as of the day that I was fired, there were over 6,000 Americans who were seeking commutations of their sentence or pardons from President Trump. Most of those were ordinary Americans who don't have the resources to hire an attorney or a lobbyist. They don't have access to the White House through the front door.
And so they're counting on the pardon attorney to review their case, vet them, and if their case has merit, to elevate that for consideration by the president. That process was gutted by this administration. It's a process that, as of my firing, was not functioning well, and now there's no pardon attorney in place serving that role.
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