Kara and Scott discuss President Trump's nonsensical trade war, and if there's an actual endgame to these tariffs. Plus, Elon Musk and his DOGE cronies get access to the federal payment system, and important information on government websites starts to disappear. Then, the winners and losers from Big Tech's recent earnings, and OpenAI in talks for a huge funding round. This episode was recorded on Monday morning, before news broke that tariffs on Canada and Mexico would be paused. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on Bluesky at @pivotpod.bsky.social. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: How does Kara Swisher introduce the episode?
Can you put a camera in your house so I can watch that? Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I am in San Francisco and was on a flight last night having to read about Doge working all weekend taking over the government.
Good to see you, Cara.
I'm so tired.
Are you? Why are you back in San Francisco?
Oh, I have a bunch of things to do here. I'm speaking in front of a group from Columbia University Journalism School. I've got some appointments. I've got a whole bunch of stuff I'm doing here in San Francisco. I like to come and visit the place every now and then to find out what's going on here. You love it there. I do. I do. I don't have a lot of time here this time, but I'm excited to be here.
Anyway, it was a long weekend. Listen, this whole Doge thing has got me off to a bad start. But I am glad I'm in San Francisco, that's for sure. How are you doing?
Good. I'm about to get on a plane for Orlando.
Oh, nice.
Yeah. I have a speaking gig at Walt Disney World.
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Chapter 2: What are the implications of Trump's tariffs on Canada and Mexico?
anchors who just doesn't seem to know math it'll be a tax on the american consumer that they're not going to get through tax breaks because the tax breaks are going to the very wealthy they're not going to uh and this is a direct tax on the american consumer it's really quite something and the price of everything all this weird i had no idea that so much stuff
And I know that we're doing lots of trade up vaguely, but in terms of when you start to get the specifics of what we import, fresh fruits and vegetables, gas, obviously maple syrup, things like that. But some of it, you know, cars that go back and forth across the border. I was vaguely aware of that. But it's really, we are, they aren't the 51st state, but they sure as hell aren't.
Just another country. That is true. And I think the same is Mexico. We have so much trade with them. And there was a hope that we'd put more technology engineering there so it was closer and less at risk than in China, right? He thinks it's a negotiating tactic.
And one of the things, let me look it up, Mark Cuban said, which I thought was smart, is that he'll make some calls and call them off right away and then declare victory, essentially. You know, do a pinky promise. I think that's what he said.
that he was tough and then he can take his win and go home, essentially, which it sounded like a pretty reasonable idea of what this idiot's going to do, essentially.
If you were to game theory this out, the most likely outcome is that immediately you're going to see a spike in prices, or near immediately. A lot of companies have been stockpiling. I was on the board of a retailer and I was speaking to the CEO the other day and he said, yeah, the tariffs in China, we knew they were coming, so we've been stockpiling things.
and trying to get them in until this gets solved. So I actually don't think you're going to see price increases as quickly as people think. Maybe we will, but we will see price increases. And then he will come up with some sort of, he'll declare victory and say he got something and most likely rolled them back somewhat or all. That's the most likely scenario.
What we're not thinking about is that people have memories, people have egos. And we're no longer a trusted ally. We no longer can be counted on. You're going to see that the Canadians are going to be more likely to import BYD electric vehicles.
This is from China, for people who don't know.
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Chapter 3: Is Elon Musk influencing US government actions?
It feels like it's not, I don't think it's a war on women or LGBTQ. It's a war on poor women.
Oh, come on, Scott. I'm sorry. It is. It's a war on lots of things. The stuff they're taking down across the government is, it's not just poor people. They're trying to like abrogate, to eliminate other, anyone else that has, remember, they're taking down like they have Black History Month or Gay Pride Month.
But who does it impact?
Well, that kind of stuff, it's the same message. If you read Project 2025, it's not just, of course, it impacts poor people, but it also impacts the idea of any kind of identity beyond, you know, veterans need to veteran, you know, CDC needs to CDC, don't talk about anything else. It's an idea that has driven them crazy, which is that we should celebrate diversity, I guess.
It's a broader obsession that they have with this issue. And that's how you led to sort of the FAA thing, which is it had to be diversity, equity, inclusion that caused these crashes, even though we haven't had a crash in a very, very long time when those things were in place. which probably is a tragic accident. That's really what it is, and that's what happens in life.
But I think it's a bigger ideological attack of things they're trying to eliminate in schools. Let me just say, my kids are in a public school in D.C. I am very nervous they're going to start meddling with the education system She came home and was talking. She said, oh, I learned the word diverse today. And I said, what does that mean to you? And she goes, oh, they were all different.
And she wasn't using race. She was like, oh, we're all different people from each other. And it's good to be, you know, to have differences and it's good to have things in common. It was a very, like... chalk, vanilla, strawberry way of thinking about it. But I was like, oh, they're going to take that out of her education, just the word, which was frightening in a lot of ways.
I think it's a bigger issue, taking the word diversity out of preschool or whatever.
No, I know. I think they're going to do a lot of meddling in education.
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Chapter 4: Why is there a removal of information from US government websites?
Now, Intel captured a ton of revenue and shareholder value because they were the brains inside of PCs. I was on the board of Gateway Computer. Do you remember them?
Oh, of course, Ted. Wait. Yeah.
We, okay, get this. PCs changed the world.
You were on that board? What?
I was on the board of Gateway Computer. I know. Talk about the weakest flex in the world.
No wonder what happened to it. No, sorry.
Sorry, did I say that wrong? Anyways, so we were the second largest manufacturer of computers. Think about it. If someone had said 100 years ago, PCs, or 50 years, PCs, these supercomputers that cost the government billions of dollars, we're going to be able to put one on every desk. What would the market cap of that company be? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you.
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Chapter 5: What are the consequences of the recent policy changes on marginalized groups?
But he is now the puppet master and the notion that he can go into a website and turn off payments for social services or government services or shut off foreign aid at his sole discretion.
He says he's doing it on the president's orders.
Well, that's fair because he's appointed by the president, the president can remove him. But my impression is based on the tariffs, the market's reaction to taking a stock up, that basically, okay, you have one guy who the president has entrusted to make these decisions real-time.
And one of the downsides or the upsides of a bureaucracy, and what people would argue correctly sometimes in an efficient government, is that we don't let any... Power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And what we have here is absolute power, and what do you know? It's the world's wealthiest man. And it goes back to the same thing. There has to be a check on...
this American experience where we just have decided that money translates to not only power, but to rights. And we are transferring more and more wealth, which subsequently means more and more power and probably most subsiding more and more rights at the expense of poor people. And what's going to happen to every company that isn't owned by Musk.
And I look at these tariffs and I'm like, this is brilliant. He's figured out a way to create a tariff that pretty much exempts Tesla. Everyone was like, well, Tesla sells a lot of cars into China. No, all the cars being sold in China are manufactured in China. They're not subject to tariffs. Anyways, I find it very distressing and very un-American.
There are very little. It's interesting to see whether you saw those protests in Germany or not seeing them in this country. But Musk's favorables are quite low, really quite low, considering a lot of people look up to him, which is interesting. Because it does look, especially with this crew he's got around him, it feels like a movie someone made up, right? Some of this stuff. They're all kids.
They're all kids of some sort that are around him or people that work for him. They're all his people that are coming in and demanding to see everything, demanding their, you know, they're like the evil genius bar, essentially, that's going into all these places. And they did take over what was essentially the genius bar for the government, the U.S. Digital Service, and they've renamed it the U.S.
Doge Service. And that gives them access. These were already set up, these offices, in every federal government facility, in every department. And, you know, some of them literally was just a camp counselor and One kid did this astonishing computing around decoding these ancient scrolls, brilliant people who had brilliant coding skills and brilliant computer skills. But it's this sort of team.
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Chapter 6: How are the media and public responding to these political changes?
I can't even. It's the cruelest. It's the cruelest and most petty and small-minded of cuts. There's so many cruel and just like cutting, like we talked about last week, cutting the security details of people who worked for this country. It's so petty. It's so small. It shows you this shiver of a little heart that we have at work here.
But let's put the morality aside. So you decide, look, I want that $200 to go to American kids. Full stop. Okay, I understand the argument. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. That $200, That void we're leaving, Russia and China are gonna step into that void. They're going to find people willing to be allies and who will fund groups.
We have this sense of security, this cold comfort, that there are people out there who would come for us, kill us, and take our shit away. And one of the reasons they don't is because they can't, because generally speaking, the vast majority of nations and the vast majority of people around the world might find us obnoxious, they might find us gluttonous, they might find us arrogant.
But they think at the end of the day, we're trying to do the right thing. That we're the people who are funding that hospital. That when there's refugees, when there are homeless people and there are maternity wards being shelled in Ukraine, that American charities show up. I mean, we're seen as the good guys. And that pays enormous...
that pays enormous dividends that we don't recognize because the homeland hasn't been attacked since September 11th. So even if you think, even if you don't make the moral argument or you don't accept the moral argument, just from a security standpoint, from a geopolitical power standpoint, this is the best 200 bucks
Canadians are booing us, people. Canadians don't boo anybody. Let's just say Canadians. They're booing us. They're booing us. Anyway. All right. I'll start with mine. My win obviously has to go to Beyonce on her album of the year. Grammy win.
I'm glad you're lighting up. You know what?
Watching the Grammys was great. The vibe they had was like, fuck you, all of you. We're going to be black. We're going to be interesting. We're going to be talented. We're going to be enjoyable. There was not a lot of, the vibe was so good at the Grammys. I'm sorry. I didn't even know it happened. They weren't doing a lot of the like virtue signaling at all.
In fact, they were just like, we're fucking better. We're cooler. We're so cool. We are so creative. Anyway, Beyonce's at the top of that. I love Cowboy Carter. I love that album. There's a lot of albums I love this year. Kendrick Lamar's was I liked a lot. But this one I really enjoyed and played it over and over again. She's been nominated four times in this category.
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