Clarence Jones
Appearances
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
Thank you, Stan. This is one of those times where I'm really excited about Health Chatter and the podcast that we're doing because of the way in which we seek out treasures in our community who are people that are doing things that are noteworthy and that we should be sharing information with. And today we have a wonderful guest, Vissera Malaski, who is a pharmacist.
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
She has served patients in North Minneapolis for eight years. first as an intern, and then later as a pharmacist. And she is passionate about culturally competent care, addressing healthcare disparities, and focusing on evidence-based therapies.
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
And I think that you're going to find out as we start talking with her, because as you just said, Sam, we are talking about this research for weight loss drugs. And it's really been a big issue. We were working with MDH, and they were talking about childhood obesity. And we know that this thing is just blowing up.
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
And so we're excited that we have the opportunity on Health Chatter to be able to enter into this conversation. So welcome, Ms. Sarah. And why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself so our listeners can get to know you.
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
Yeah, that makes sense. Clarence. So Sarah, for this portion, I'd just like for you to talk about the side effects. I think we need to have a section. I mean, because usually when people talk about some of these drugs, they always talk about the good things. What are the side effects that happen as a result of using these drugs?
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
You know, interesting enough, though, Sarah, when we started talking about this whole issue around weight loss drugs, your name came up. And, you know, whenever I mention your name, people are like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we need to talk to Sarah. So we're excited to have you. And so with that, I am going to let our prober, Mr. Stan, start with the first question for you.
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
Let me unmute here. When your patients come in, and I kind of sort of asked this question before, but when your patient comes in and they really want to do this, what are you saying to them?
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
Clarence, Let me just say this. I know that we got me to the end of our show. Sarah, I am really, really pleased with the information that you provided today. I definitely look forward to the opportunity to work with you some more and to actually have you come back on the show and to share more information with us. I think you've been an exciting guest.
Health Chatter
Weight Loss Meds
I want to know from Sarah, I love this conversation, but I want to know from you, what is your community conversation with people who come to you around weight loss drugs? What do you say to the community?
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
And you know, Stan, since you brought that up, I want to tell our listeners a little in-house secret because around communication, because we did have a real struggle with certain topics. Oh, absolutely. There were certain topics that we recorded that we just did not get a full understanding to bring it out, but we know that it was a struggle.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
And I want to just specifically, again, don't be mad at me, everybody. I want to talk about cannabis. Cannabis was really a very, very interesting topic that we entered into, but I don't think we got out of that tunnel. But it was something that talks about the struggle that we have around some of these topics and talks about some of the challenges that we have in terms of even trying to
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
to address them. And so I don't know what the rest of you thought about that. And maybe I shouldn't have brought it up, but I know I should have. But let's talk about that. I mean, let's talk about the fact that we have sometimes some topics, some health topics that we personally struggle with from a variety of different angles.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
And we have to be very careful how we present that information to our listeners.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
So let me start this out, because I went back and looked at the shows, and on January the 1st, Dr. D talked to us about this topic around fentanyl. And fentanyl was a, and this was, yeah, January the 1st, so that was the beginning of the year. And it really was important for me to be a part of that because we're dealing a lot with substance abuse disorders.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that I found exciting and interesting about the work was the discoveries that we made after we entered the topic. For example, what came to my mind specifically was this issue around long COVID.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
That people are... People are being affected by this long term. And then what really threw me for a loop was the fact that the speaker said that there are like 200 symptoms of long COVID. I'm like, my goodness. You know what I mean? So we're into this new phase of diseases and we still don't know a whole lot about them. Exactly. It was just great to have information available.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
I was really excited to hear what he had to say as well as to listen to some of the data. And I utilized some of that data in order to help me personally as well as my organization.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
Yeah, I don't know. And maybe I missed it. My internet is kind of unstable here. Can we talk about fake news this coming year?
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
position ourselves to try to address that issue in our community so that was the first show for the new year and it was one that was really really important for me and uh you know i was really excited that we were able to to book him yeah you know you know what else really struck me um and perhaps everybody can can remember this is war broke out in in ukraine
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
Yeah, I think... One of the things that I liked about Health Chatter, number one, was the fact that it did allow us the opportunity to engage others into the conversation. It also allowed us to safely take a look at issues that we were personally involved in.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
For example, I think that because you and I talk a lot about being more seasoned, Stan, you know, having topics, you know, around aging and having topics around, for me, the topic is around strokes and
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
And then the one that we did around ethical wills and things like that, it really brings into view a lot of the, really the things that we need to be addressing and that many of our listeners are needing to be addressed. And so I was really excited about the fact that we were able to do that. But even more exciting, I was glad when we were able to get this intergenerational view
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
A lot of different things that, you know, we look at a thing a certain kind of way. I look at an issue a certain kind of way, but it may not necessarily be the thought patterns of those who are a little bit younger than us. And so it is interesting.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
I think, Stan, I think that one of the things that also I appreciate it about health chatter was it gave us the opportunity to enter into questions that I think that many people in, you know, my sphere of influence are talking about, for example, navigating the health system. I mean, we get a lot of different things. In fact, I thought about Aaron and was that lightning flower.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
And I thought about other things that we have to talk about. Yeah. You know, that, you know, we have these assumptions about the health system. You know, we talk about how great or how bad our health system is. But it was just great to enter into that space to be able to talk more freely about it. And then to be able to get some ideas about how we might be able to navigate it.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
But also to understand how difficult it can be for others to To navigate and so it was it was just it was just that space of for me of of learning and being able to ask questions that you need to ask and even though you may or may not have the. you know, the personal ability to make changes, at least you knew how to, you knew what other people were thinking.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
And I think so many times, I think so many times in these kinds of spaces, people are trying to get you to think a certain kind of way. But I I do know that if we talk about 2023, we got in some areas where we just did not agree or we had some very strong opinions about them. And we were able to navigate that and to disagree respectfully and to be able to talk about some things better.
Health Chatter
New Year More Health Chatter
that well yeah quite personally personally affected us but you know we had to figure out how did it affect us and so i think that part of what i love about the the way in which you know we're trying to do this show is that we're trying to be honest yeah and agree that we can disagree correct and you know i i don't know if i look at the gestalt of all the programs
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, it's interesting that you're saying that. I always tell people that the color of America is not black or white. It's really green. It's all about the money. And unfortunately, you know, we find people that are in a position that should be more caring who are... unfortunately more concerned about the bottom line. Somebody once told me they said, the color of corporate America is green.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Whenever it becomes red, it dies. So, you know, in terms of the ink and all those kinds of things, but do you think that there is really a lack of empathy? I mean, in this work?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Thank you, Stan. And I'm glad you said illustrious because we have in the studio tonight, Ms. Melissa Winger. She's the author of the book, Who Cares? The Real Patient Experience. And she's talking about the experience of navigating, as she called, the broken health system. And Melissa and I have had the opportunity to be on a variety of different committees.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
It sounds like, it sounds like Melissa, that you don't have a lot of hope for the system. And I was thinking about this question. I said, you know, We all know that after COVID, I mean, there are a lot of people that they're not going back to work. I mean, they have nursing shortages and doctor shortages and people saying like, I'm not getting back involved in this. And so a lack of staff.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And what do you see as a glimmer of hope? Is there something that we should be thinking about as a glimmer of hope for trying to address this issue?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And when she shared that she was the author of a book, I thought, this lady has something to tell us and something to say. And so she is appointed a member of the Healthcare Home Advisory Committee, the Emergency Medical Services for Children, family representative.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, so tell me about that problem patient. What was that like for you?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
She currently is on the American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Social Determinants Health Board, National Technical Advisory Committee on Screening Tools. Look, if I were... Listen, all the boards that she's on, I think I'd be here for the next 20 minutes. But the reason I'm really excited about it is that she's very, very passionate about this issue.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And so we're very, very excited to have you, Melissa. And we thank you for being here with us. And so with that, we would like to enter into this conversation with you about who cares. And you can share with us about your real patient experience.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Let me ask this question. Do you think doctors understand the patient experience?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Wow. One of the things that Sheridan came up with, I mean, for this navigating the healthcare system, he says that a misguided attempt to improve healthcare has led some hospitals to focus on making people happy rather than making them well. What do you think about that comment?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, when I was looking at your title of your book with who cares, I think about, for me, so many people have the, whether it's real or not, so many people have the perception that nobody cares. So why do I go to the doctor? I mean, I'd rather take care of myself versus trusting a system that is not sympathetic or empathetic towards me.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And I think about how do we, how is it, or what is it that we can do to help to address this issue? I know that you talked about having patients being fully aware of what they're going through. But are there some other things that we could be looking at? I mean, are there some other things that we as consumers should be talking about?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I mean, that's part of why we have this kind of show is that we know that these are real issues. This is the chatter that we're having right now. We're just chatting about the fact what everybody else has heard or they know about is that we have some problems here. So what is it that we should be doing? What is it that we should be thinking about
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So let's talk about it. Let's start from the beginning. Tell us how you entered into this conversation. What was it? What was the epiphany or the experience that you had that caused you to think about writing this book about who cares?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, I think one of the things that I like that, I think one of the things for me and some of my experiences, and it's not for everything, but it's how patients are received that also makes them have the perception like, who cares?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I mean, if you have a bad front desk person, receptionist, or you have people that, you know, will make you sit for an hour or two, and then, you know, then you have your 10 minute, your 10 minute job. it really creates a real issue for families. And I think that that's why it's so important to talk about it because we want to talk about what is the real patient's experience?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And then how do we inform people, both the patient, the consumer, as well as the practitioner on how to make that experience better? And I think that that's, you know, make it better and not more bitter. You know what I mean? So I think that part of what I like about your book, you know, is the fact that you're trying to help us to address this. And I appreciate that. That's my thought.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I actually think that a clear understanding of the patient's experience will help clinicians to do a better job, but also to help the patient to understand more. There is not enough, as we talked about communication, there's not enough of an understanding between each other. I mean, we talk about
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
at least for me, I talk about the whole idea about translation, making sure that the patient and the clinician both are on the same page when it comes to these issues so that you don't have this conflict, which could be easily addressed by people being more empathetic. And so I think that part of it really is we need to understand what the real experiences are.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And I think that this book, as you just said, is part of the conversation that may help us to get to this next level.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know what, Melissa, I want to thank you very much for this conversation. I have not had the you said everybody at some point will go into this medical possibility of having to go through the system. I have not had the experience yet of going through the system with so many issues. But I tell you what, it's very good to know that there are ways to alleviate or to address things.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I think that with your book, you're opening up the open up the pathway for conversation. And so for those people who are in the system or who are going to go into the system, there's at least a better foundation for understanding. And so I want to thank you for being a part of our show. So those are my thoughts.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, that's quite interesting because as I was saying, as I was reading your resume, you must be about like 30 boards. But I understand that because we've been together on a variety of committees, I understand your passion for it. Let's talk about your son though. Let's talk about the beginning of this book. How did you get him to become a patient advocate?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Really vulnerable, too. You know, Stan and Melissa, one of the things that, and I think Stan and you and Melissa both brought this up, is that we go into this system with the expectation that we're going to have a positive experience, that people that we are working with will have our best interests at heart.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
But I think according to the research, it says that only about 33% of 1,800 people that were surveyed, only about 33% of them reported never having a bad health experience, health-related experience. But according to a Forbes article, 60% of Americans have had an outright negative health care experience. And that seems to go against what we think about how it should work.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
But we are working with the system that we need. But at the same time, it just seems that there are things that are going on that are not necessarily in our best interest. So Melissa, what do you think about that?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, and that actually was my experience too, is that I was in a place where they wouldn't even recommend their own family. They wouldn't bring their own family. And they would say that. I'm like, how can you do that? But obviously there are some things that are amiss.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah. So Melissa, let me ask this question. What do you think are the issues? What's really behind the issues that's causing this system to be so broken? What are your thoughts? I know there's a variety of different things, but what do you think are some of the primary reasons why there is such a broken system?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Well, you know, I think when we first started discussing this, Dan, I thought about the possibilities and the potential of being able to have an honest conversation about a lot of these different issues. We sometimes have, we seem to have conflicting values around things until we talk about them.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And, you know, especially around health, I mean, there's a lot of perceptions and myths and things like that. There's a lot of things that We don't know. And I speak as a community member. I try not to be on the show. I try to be very much a community member and ask the questions that I've heard other people ask.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
All right, thanks, Stan. I didn't think I was going to do this, but anyway, human partnership is a coalition of collaborators who work together on public health issues that the community identifies as important. And with that, we go out and we try to find the research to find the data so that we can add that information to the narrative so that the community can have a story and data to tell.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
But one of the reasons why we are so excited about the podcast really is that this really is what we believe public health is about, is that we're learning a lot of different things and we're involved in a lot of different things. We have to find a way to disseminate it in a way that people can really take action. And so, oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead and cut this out.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
So for me, it was a great opportunity to be able to sit down with you and then to see some of the magnificent partners and people and guests that you brought along, but also to see the crew. the crew was phenomenal and it was just great. I mean, we didn't know what we were doing, but we all came together and we were willing to try. And, and that's my thought. I mean, I like, it was amazing.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
There's an ambulance going past right about now. But our whole goal has really been to find the allies and to have the transparent conversations that we can have in order for people to take action. And so, health chatter was just another way, another form for us to be engaged
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
in a way where we bring together not only the research, the missions, the academic community, government, but also the community so that we can have a place where we can get to actually talk. So that's one of the reasons why it's so great and very used the term intergenerational.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
It's so great to have the opportunity to be in a space where we have people that can address issues in a very, very informative way. But human is really about helping our communities become healthier. And how we can do that, how creatively we can do that, you know, we want to make that happen.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Yeah, you know, at times I'm just, flabbergasted, I guess that's a good word to say, that's an old word, but anyway, at the level of intellect and the level of maturity that came out of my group. I mean, you know, for me, I was always interested in knowing what the next generation was thinking.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And I've learned so much from them because they were willing to be, as you said, they were willing to be vulnerable and open. So I do appreciate them. And like you said, Sam, there have been some times where I've just, I've been in awe of some of the responses that they said, but I've also been surprised some stuff I've said. So it's been a great ride.
Health Chatter
Stroke
I just wanted to make that comment, thank you, because I think the way that you explained that is very, very helpful for me, but also I think when people listen to this program and they hear that, there will be less hesitancy about thinking that you have a homemade remedy that could address that issue. So that was my thought.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah. So one of the things that I want to tell you why I think that this is important is because, you know, we kind of make jokes about the fact that we're seasoned. But you just said it was only in 1995 when people started, you know, the first preventative kind of thing. So a lot of us who have were born in 1950s and 40s, we have a long, long history of
Health Chatter
Stroke
Of not thinking that there was anything that we could do about this, you know, that there was no medical procedure that could help it. And then you just said 2015. I mean, so this is why this kind of this kind of conversation is so important is because for many of us who are more seasoned, we don't have this history of learning about the the impact of stroke.
Health Chatter
Stroke
dot org point before you go on i want to let us know human is that just for the african-american community every man has hue all of us have all of us are human h-u-e-e-m-a-n right yes yes yes so we all have a lot to talk about we all have exactly
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really glad that you said that, because I always think that people say, say that community is always complaining. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, but I think now that the research is coming out, there are reasons why there is such a discrepancy. And there are reasons why we have such a monetary impact.
Health Chatter
Stroke
negatively monetary impact in terms as it relates to health. And so I'm glad for the conversation that we're having, because I think that number one, it's not accusing anybody of anything. It is about, it's about taking a look at statistically what's going on. And how we can make things better. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And I like that whole idea about the adequate primary care is that it is so important for us to understand that many times people don't get that. What really came to my mind was this, as you were talking, doctor, was the fact that in my 30s, I went to a clinic and they gave me a checkup, of course. And they said, oh, you're pre-diabetic. That's all he said to me.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, I was about 30. And I didn't think about it like I think about it now. But I'm saying if that's your procedure or your protocol, there's something wrong with that, which is one of the reasons why we try so very hard to
Health Chatter
Stroke
say and ask these questions and say how do we make this conversation so that it's bi-directional so that people can really understand how they enter into this and so I really appreciate the fact of what you have said today and how you said it because I think that we will definitely use this particular for me I'm definitely going to use this particular uh a program as a way to further inform my community because you said a lot of great things so let me you know
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah. And you know, that's sad. That's very sad. And I thank you for saying that.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, it's really honest. And it is the experience that many people, communities of color have. And it's like, it doesn't mean that the other person is necessarily bad. I think so many times about the fact that we're just conditioned sometimes to do certain things.
Health Chatter
Stroke
For example, we were talking about the fact that, you know, nurses and doctors are still taught that Black people don't experience pain the way that white people do. You know, I mean, like, that's crazy. But, but it is what we have to do. And that's one of the reasons why I like health chatter is that we can get into these non political areas and say what we need to say.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And hopefully people are hearing this and so You know, again, like I said before, I really appreciate what you have done today because it will be one of my highly recommended shows for people to come in and to listen. And we would love to have you and that gentleman come out to our communities and talk about that.
Health Chatter
Stroke
I was just writing into the chat box, thank you. I think, as I said, maybe two or three times. This has really been a very interesting, thought-provoking program, and I just want to appreciate you and to thank you for your work, but also thank you for your offer of helping the communities to become healthier.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, yeah. So from my perspective, I am one of those more seasoned people, doctor, just so you know that. But in my community, we talk about stroke as though it's normal. And we know people that had strokes, and yeah, they had a stroke. And so are there signs that people received that the body gives off before a impending stroke is one of the things that I want to know.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And then the other thing that I want to know is what are the real basic things that we should know about strokes and how to prevent them. Because again, when I talk about certain communities, it's just like we accept it as just a fact of life without thinking that there's any way for us to avoid them. So anyway, so those are kind of my mishmash of questions.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah. I want to thank you for your previous explanation, because as you were talking about that, you were listing all those various things. I think that and again, I'm coming from a community perspective. Many times people might be experiencing some of those things and they're afraid of calling the 911 because of the ambulance and the cost that they might occur. Okay, so let's put that out there.
Health Chatter
Stroke
That is some of the fear factors that we have. You just talked about the fact that it's not our job to analyze, right? Our job is to just call and to get those things on.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So as a community member, I agree with you 100%. I'm out in the community doing work, and I see this gap between what I call biomedical and public health. And it's like nobody wants to really talk about it. Everybody wants their own silo. What I want to know from you is what tips –
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
do you have going through this crisis for both the community and public health leaders to discuss in order for us, as you just said, to not have to repeat all of these lessons over again?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Who was your inspiration? What was your epiphany with the way that you're thinking? Because I think that it's important for me to know, and I think it's important for people to hear that, because I think the things that you're saying, we need to hear more of.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So I'm gonna ask you this from a community perspective, okay? A community is often pointing fingers at medicine and at public health about its issues. My question to you is, what should the expectations of public health be for the community?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah, okay. This is one of the biggest issues for me in terms of this whole idea about having healthier communities is that I think sometimes the expectation on communities from healthcare leaders is not enough. I think that people are afraid of being critical and saying that this is not working or people are afraid of being, of hurting people's feelings when we have these diseases.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And yet by not being, by not having higher expectations, people are dying. Okay. So the question I'm really trying to see is that I know that many times people have their favorites. It's easy to go to these organizations and give them money because you are accustomed to them.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
But I'm wondering about the the increase in the accountability and the responsibility of organizations in order for us to really address these issues. Because I think, you know, one of the one of the concerns I always have is that, you know, the state has put 50, 60 million dollars in a certain zip code for the last 40 to 50 years. And people are sick of how they've ever been.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
That makes no sense to me. That makes no sense to me. And so I'm not getting on the soapbox. I'm just saying, I just want to kind of figure out how then do we have this, this honest conversation, talk about authenticity. We have this authentic conversation about what is really needed and what is really expected as we start talking about these healthcare chronic diseases and illnesses.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So I just want to put that out there. So I don't, I want your response.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Thank you. I think there's a lot I'm going to be chewing on as we listen to this program. But thank you very much. And I think that it's a pleasure. And now I'll reinstate what Stan said. He was talking about what a pleasure it was to listen to you. It was a pleasure for me to listen to you. And thank you for your insight.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. So, Jan, let me first thank you for your comments. You know, you asked all my questions all in that opening statement. But I think one of the things that I really wanted to know was this. What type of skill should be demonstrated by a leader? during a crisis? I mean, what do you think are the top maybe three or four skills that should be demonstrated by a leader during a crisis?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
I mean, we just came to this COVID piece, this pandemic, and it seemed like people were all over the place. And so for me as a community member, what are the skills that I should be looking for from my leader going through a crisis or just in general?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. I tell you the truth, this honest truth. I never thought I was going to be 16. Okay. I never thought I was going to be past 21. And then when I hit 28, I didn't care. But I don't necessarily think that we associate the word immortality to safety. I think we associate, and again, this is my perception, we associate death with immortality. Because for many people, it's not about living life.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
it's how do we live longer? I mean, you know, you're in a structure in a society where many times, whether it's something that you want to think about or not, it's always before you, this whole idea about being safe, you know, being stereotyped, being put into a type that you always are conscious of. I think Yeah, I think that that's part of it, Stan.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Like I said, this is health chatter, and so we talk about some things sometimes that are very difficult. I'm going to tell a story. I feel like I need to tell this story because it's real for me, and this whole idea about Living a life that you feel is going to be fulfilling and satisfying. When I was eight, though, I think I may have mentioned this once before.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I lived in Chicago on the West Side. And I remember I lived across the street from a park. And I remember one time walking across the street to the park. And I said to myself, since a white man will never let me be anything, I will never let people know how smart I am. And I remember at that point, I actually saw myself splitting in two. I actually saw myself walking.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Now, I don't know how to explain that. I'm just telling you very honestly what I felt. I actually saw myself walking across the street. And it was a profound experience for me. But the real part was I didn't know any white people. You know what I'm saying?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
So I think sometimes when we start talking about these various things, about immortality, about death, it's not necessarily something that we have to personally experience. I mean, Sheridan talked about personally experiencing death. I think sometimes it's the culture and the environment in which we live that cause us to think differently.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
So when I think about immortality, I think about it as being connected to death and not life.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, Stan, you know what I think? Sheridan, thank you for that. I'm going to talk to you about your dad after the show here, okay? But I think one of the things, too, that you brought up was the fact that because of the Internet, because of the social and the communication medias that we have right now, people are seeking in a variety of different ways to be immortalized.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Some of it's good and some of it's not so good. Some of it is that I'm going to do something so heinous that I'll always be remembered for that. And I think that that's part of the challenge that we have with this whole thought is that people seek it. I mean, they don't talk about it as much, but people are seeking to be always remembered.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I mean, that's why I think sometimes in our lives, people do things to make us remember them because people want to feel like they have some And I think that it's an important, with this particular topic, there is so much to delve into, but it is so, it's so real for us. I mean, it's almost like breathing. We as human beings, you know, we want to be remembered.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I mean, that's why we, you know, we do the things that we do.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And I thank you for bringing that up again, because I always have this saying that I say, the color of America is not black or white. The color of America is green. It's about the money. And so if anti-aging is going to be the next moneymaker, that's what we're going to see. And I think that that's what the research is showing, is that People are interested in being immortal.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
People are interested in living a longer, healthier life. And if corporations can find a way to make some money off of that, they're going to do that. So I'm not a fatalist. I guess I'm trying to be a realist. I mean, at my age, that's what I'm finding. I don't know. What do you think, Stan? Is it about the money?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Let me say this real quick, Stan. Some mornings I wake up after a night's sleep and I feel the same way. Like, what the heck is going on? You know what I mean? So it's... Life is quite interesting.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Now that I've gotten older, I think, you know what, I think my life experiences has, I think when it comes to mentality, I think what my life experience has taught me is I need to pass it on. Okay, my goal in life is, and I think this was a saying that I learned when I was a little kid. It says that when I die, I want to have positively impacted two people.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
So my immortality would be to pass on the experiences that I've learned in this life to other people. And that way I feel like my life has been a success. So I think that it's kind of maybe a roundabout way of answering your question. But it's really how I feel. I mean, the fact is that I've learned a lot. I want to share a lot.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And I feel like then I will have done something positive in this life.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Stan, I think that's why people protect their names. They want their names to live on. They want to invest in their children. They want to do something so that beyond their existence on this earth, that there is something that's said positively about that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
So, you know, again, what I think is that we don't talk about immortality like we're talking about it now, but we talk about it in a way that we use a lot of, we translate a lot of other words to say the same thing.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I think one of the stories I always heard, I don't know if we said this before, but when you go to a cemetery, usually you have the date of birth and you have the date of death, but then there's a dash there. And you ask the question, what happened during the dash? You know what I mean?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Exactly. What did you do? You know, what happened? What did you leave to the world? And I think that that's, that's important. I want to go, want to go back to this, to this thing that, that was brought up by both Deidre and Sheridan, which is this, this Brian Johnson person and his quest.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I mean, you know, besides, I didn't, I didn't realize that he was doing the blood thing with his youngest child, but yeah. I think that people are doing all kinds of things to be immortal. I mean, for him, you know, it says that he's taking 111 pills every day. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, just to live. And then you don't know if it's going to work or not.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, I mean, so I think a lot of this is a kind of experimental thing. And then she wears a baseball cap that shoots red light into his scalp. I don't know what people are doing, but people are doing a lot of stuff, a lot of things in order to just to live longer or to be immortal. And it's quite an interesting conversation that that we're having here.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
So that's that's what I want to say, like. That's quite interesting. What people are doing in order to maintain or to gain immortality.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, I saw I was looking at some of the work here. There was a book written in 1936 called The Illusion of Immortality.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. And I didn't I didn't you know, I started reading some of the things and it was like it was very interesting. So I didn't get a chance to read a lot of it. But I know, as you just said, this is not something a topic that has been, you know, just new. You know, a lot of times it's something that people have been thinking about for a long, long time.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And so it's just part of I think it's just part of being a human being is that, you know, how long can I live? Is your life after death? I mean, what what you know, what what what's going on in this thing? So those are questions that people are pondering about. And so, you know, our goal here today is to really incite people to just, you know. Have a conversation.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, no, I was just saying that is, you know, so many people are living life is like this is the only life that we get. And so therefore, there is not a lot of concept or thoughts about immortality. But I do think that, you know, you can do that. But there's something about life, you know, and I think Sheridan kind of alluded to this. There's something about life. You go home living like that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
There's something about life that this question will come up. And so it's just great to be able to talk about it at this point.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Thank you. Yeah. All right. Your last word. Thank you. Thank you. I enjoyed this conversation.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know what, Stan? I want to just tell you this. I love what you just said because it's so interesting. I mean, you started off talking about, you know, your work. And so... My concept, my thinking about immortality really was shaped by my Christian upbringing. You know, the whole idea about life after death. I mean, so immortality and death were just kind of combined.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
But it's interesting when you talked about the symbolism. I always thought about snakes as death.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
So as you were talking about this whole thing, I just want to enter into this conversation. And I'm really excited that we have our younger colleagues who are part of this because it was a conversation that was generated by them. that caused me to really want to enter this question. So I'm just here to learn, uh, immortality, uh, uh, and I think it comes from this whole idea about being young.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You don't think about death. You think about you're going to live forever. So therefore you're willing to take all kinds of risk. You really do all those kinds of things. And so it's just kind of interesting. So I'm ready to, I'm ready to rock and roll and talk about this topic. So that's my, that's my initial thought.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, I think, Sam, what's interesting to me in what you're saying is this, is that I think sometimes the way that we address this issue is based on our worldview. for some folks, this is the only life we get. You're going to do everything you can at this particular point. That's how they determine their life. For me, the whole idea about immortality is one that we all struggle with.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And so I just want to hear from my younger colleagues, their thoughts about immortality. What do they think? I mean, what's their worldview? Because we don't have to agree. We just have to have a conversation. So my fellow colleagues, younger colleagues, not Stan and I are out. What are your thoughts about immortality?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Well, I agree with you. I think that, I mean, what you're saying resonates with me, Sharon. And I think that, you know, as an observation, I see that. I see that it's kind of like a maturity that you convey. But, you know, I was thinking about this issue of immortality. I remember as a kid, I hope I'm... I'm not a history major, but do you remember the stories? Was it Ponce de Leon?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I'm trying to use my Spanish here. Wasn't he the guy that was looking for the fountain of youth?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was one of the stories that I, you know, as a kid, I just kept reading over and over again. This guy, he kept looking for the fountain of youth someplace in Florida, someplace, I don't know, in America, like that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
But that whole idea about immortality and the various ways in which it's conveyed and portrayed is so, it just, in a variety of different ways, it comes at us in different forms. And so whether we use the term immortality or not, we're always thinking about it because there's always a way in which we look at the way in which we take risk. You know, I'm not a big rich take.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I mean, I don't do crazy stuff, you know, and I don't know that I'm trying to be immortal. It's just that that's just my view of the world.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So, you know, I'll tell you. Yeah, I was going to say this. I always make this say, but the color of America is not black or white. It's green. It's about the money. And if you remember that, then it helps to shape some of the conversation. So thank you.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Yeah, I think I'm going to ask you this or make the last statement. And I'm not necessarily asking for one answer. I just, it's just a thought for me is that knowing that everyone needs healthcare, why has it become so politicized?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Yeah. Just like Stan, I'm an admirer of your work. But I do want to ask you some questions because you kept mentioning money in a lot of your conversation. I want to ask you this. Who benefits from the dysfunctionality of our system? I think that that's an important question to be answered.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
serves as a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at the University of Minnesota School and Department of Psychiatry, and also works on Governor Walz's in the state of Minnesota advisory panel for mental health. So he comes with a wealth of knowledge.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter and today's second show of a trifecta with our great guest, Mike Trangle, who will be addressing mental health more from a clinical component and also the effects on certain populations. Mike has, you know, wealth and knowledge behind this. So we'll get to that in a minute. We have a great crew that keeps our show hopping all the time.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Well, you're no longer, but we'll still claim that you were.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Yeah, yeah, right. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with us. Mike's been a longtime friend, know each other for years and has some great insights into the mental health arena. So today we're really going to get a little bit more into the clinical aspects of mental health. And, you know, it's interesting.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
So let me, there's a couple of things I want to, you know, kind of touch on a little bit historically, then also where we are today. Like I remember, and you know, perhaps you do too, Mike, where shock therapy. was used. So comment on that.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
So let me give you a couple of things here. And I want you to react to a panic attack. So I can, I can, I'll relate one specific. I had a panic attack when I had a detached retina in my eye. Okay. And to the point where I felt as though I couldn't breathe. Okay. It was that bad. So I bring that up as it relates to mental health, acute conditions and more chronic conditions.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Years ago, I was a psychiatric technician at Fairview on Riverside Avenue as when I was going to school. And it's really interesting that the types of patients that we saw and like paranoid schizophrenics. We saw paranoia in general. We saw what was called behavior problems. socialization problems, anxiety, depression. And this was just, you know, we were dealing with adolescents.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Like fortunately in the case where I had, it was acute. Okay. So it happened and I got over it and Fortunately, but is there what you would consider to be categorized as acute conditions and then more chronic conditions in mental health?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
you know it's got to be that bad and so disruptive of your ability to function that we wouldn't call it a panic disorder as opposed to a panic attack you know interesting okay um well it's not fun you know when you have them that's for sure i can tell you and you know when you get over it quickly you're you're you're you're very um thankful um Let's talk a little bit about therapy, okay?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Has there been, you know, over your illustrious career, have you seen mental health, shall we say, morphing more into therapy-oriented treatment, quote-unquote? Yeah. whereby it's family therapy or the loss of somebody therapy, whether it's through perhaps death or the loss of a loved one or a boyfriend, a girlfriend, what have you.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Are we seeing more therapy-oriented treatment per se in the mental health arena, or is it really a mixed bag?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
some of these kids had severe mental health issues. And well these years, it has stuck with me how any of us can be affected so dramatically by mental health issues. So let's get the show going here by saying, all right, can you give us kind of Mike, the gestalt of all the clinical aspects or the clinical diagnoses of mental health that certainly you've seen in your career?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
A couple of things that come to mind. Can you talk a little bit? One sec, Clarence. It's how you have perceived, Mike, the field of mental health connecting with other fields in medicine. Like, for instance, mental health issues and sleep. There are a lot of sleep specialists. Or post-surgical mental health issues.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
For instance, somebody has, or even a medical issue, somebody's had a heart attack and now they've got some mental health issues to deal with. How is it that the field of mental health has, I guess, integrated itself with other medical fields over the course of your career that you've seen? I think maybe not, or maybe not.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Yeah, or even pain, just relative pain, you know, whether it be, you know, a toothache or, you know, tennis elbow or whatever, you know, pain can have some mental health issues, I can imagine, especially if it's chronic oriented pain.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
To a certain extent, it almost seems like a swamp of so many things in the mental health arena. Yet, we're getting better, which is encouraging. And I should underscore that for our listeners. It's getting better in the sense of how we identify it, how we treat it, how we connect it with different providers of care, etc.,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
regardless of the fact of access, which we will get into for sure in our third show with you, Mike. One of the things I do wanna bring up is some of the incredible statistics that our research crew has done. So just to give our listening audience a little flavor here, from February 1 to the 13th, so two week period of time,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
in 2023 so that was recently yeah 28.3 percent of adults in Minnesota reported symptoms of anxiety or some kind of a depressive disorder compared with 30 32 percent of adults in the United States regardless that wow okay so you know and Mike you brought this up you know Certainly during the pandemic, we saw a lot of differences in depression, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
The pandemic has coincided with an increase in substance use and increased death rates due to substances. In May of 2022, among adults in Minnesota who reported experiencing symptoms of anxiety or depressive disorder, 30.6% reported needing counseling or therapy but not receiving it in the past four weeks, compared to an average of 28.2%. Still, incredibly sad stuff here.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Mental health in the United States, the vast majority of individuals with a substance use disorder in the United States are not receiving treatment. 15.3% of adults had a substance use disorder in the past year. Of them, 93.5% did not receive any form of treatment. Some of them probably didn't even realize they had a problem. And so they didn't present themselves
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
No kidding. No kidding. Suicide, you know, we had a previous show that we dealt with suicide. You know, gay transgender populations, I'm sure, are seeing much more stress and anxiety just in living in general. And so these are incredibly sad. Depression is a leading cause of disability worldwide.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
The United States has some of the worst mental health-related outcomes, including the highest suicide rate and second highest drug-related death rates. These are things that really, really lend themselves to some policy changes so that we as just human beings in a country that should be taking care of each other should address.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
And hopefully we'll get into many of those aspects in our next show on policy. Yeah, Mike, thoughts on all of these?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Right, exactly. Well, listen, we could go on and on. about this. Last thoughts on this, Clarence?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
You know, we had Senator John Marty on the show a couple of weeks ago, Mike, and he underscored that. He absolutely underscored that. And I hope it truly, truly, truly happened. So, Mike, once again, thanks for your incredible insights on this. hopeful. There's some sadness to it, but there's some hopefulness to it.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
And we'll get into another show with Dr. Trangle on policy implications, which I think will be real timely, certainly for our next legislative session coming up. So thank you once again for everything. By the way, for our listening audience, all the research that we have on all our shows, but certainly this one will be attached to this show on the website.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
So you'll be able to see it and also some of the sites that we use in order to gather this information. And Mike, of course, if there's other information that you want to share with us that we can get on our website, be happy to do that. So for our listening audience, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
And that includes Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard, who do our great background research for us. Matthew Campbell is our production manager. Sheridan Nygaard also helps with research, but also with our marketing. And then, of course, there's I couldn't do this at all without my great colleague, Clarence Jones.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
So is it true that, that it just seems to me that today we hear more about anxiety and depression more than maybe some of the other clinical manifestations of mental health that I heard about for sure over the years. Is that a fair statement?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Um, so let me, you know, it seems like there's like these components, um, let's talk about, um, your, your experience with, um, mental health hospitalizations or mental health therapy or, and, or mental health, um, uh, medication. Okay. Um, Can you kind of talk about those three a little bit? Are we seeing more people, for instance, being hospitalized today than we did yesterday?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Are we seeing more people today being in therapy per se than we did yesterday? Put it in kind of a perspective for us a little bit.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
We had a great lunch just last week and it was really, it's always special to get together face to face, but we do talk and we do chat and we have done that well these years. So thanks Clarence to your great, great expertise. So today, mental health clinical by population and age, we got Dr. Mike Trango with us once again,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
So it's interesting, you know, one of our last shows, actually, I think it was after our first show with you, we had Dr. Jeff Louie, who is an emergency room physician. And we talked at length about. You know, kids, because he's a pediatric ER specialist, kids showing up in ERs with mental health issues and they're just dropped off there and left there.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
He served as a health partner, senior medical director for behavioral health, president of the Minnesota Psychiatric Society. He's a lifetime fellow of the American Psychiatric Association. He's a member of the National Quality Forum on Standards for Behavioral Health.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
And then the ERs become holding tanks for these kids that have mental health issues and they have nowhere to put them. And so there's policy implications for this, and it's being addressed at the state legislature as we speak. Clarence, you got a question?
Health Chatter
Motivation
But sometimes, Stan, I want to stop right there. But sometimes our motivation is guided by guilt.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, you talk about the fact about, you know, like with our kids. Well, I don't want you to have the same kind of lifestyle I had when I was growing up. Yeah. Yeah. We played outside when it was 20 below weather and we walked five miles to school. Right. Right. Right. My neck.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, we don't, we want you to, we want, we want to drive you to school, which is only two blocks away, you know, because we don't want you to experience all the stuff that I did. So it's so much exercise, right? So I'm motivated, I'm motivated by guilt or what we perceive as guilt. And, and, and sometimes what we, what we're motivating for is not healthy, you know?
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I think that that part, part of, part of, part of what we talk about or what we try and talk about is, you know, what motivates you? Why are you motivated by that? Is it because, you know, you feel guilty? Is it because you, you know, what is behind our motivation? Because a lot of times when it comes to motivation, we're stuck on autopilot. You know, all right, here's a simple one.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And, you know, yeah, that for me is that whole thing about, you know, about self-motivation. I mean, you look at scale, you know, and your five-pound overboard. Some people will look at scale and they say, oh, it's in the right place. You know what I'm saying? Five pounds. So then they're motivated to get 10 pounds. You know what I'm saying? Then it becomes too much, okay?
Health Chatter
Motivation
But I think that you're right. I think that when we talk about motivation, you really have to figure out, you know, Why am I doing what I'm doing? Is it because I really care? And I think a lot like I want to go back to this whole thing around around guilt. Sometimes people are nice to people because they feel guilty. And I mean, they do things not out of the right, not out of the right intention.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And therefore, when you do stuff like that, you're not satisfied. You just do it to be doing it. And I think that part of what I work hard for is to say, why do I do what I do? Do I do it because I feel guilty or ashamed or do I do it because I really want to? And so I try to work with that whole point about I'll never do you a favor. I talk to people that will do me a favor.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I'll never do you a favor because I never want you to do me a favor. If whatever you do for me, do it because you want to do it. If you don't want to do it, don't do it for me.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And that's that kind of epiphany in your life where those things come together. It's like, yeah, this is where I'm at. I do know that... A lot of our motivation sometimes is biological. You know, it's just that, you know, sometimes it's social. And then, you know, your personal motivation. And I think that part of what I believe is you have to self-identify what those things are.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But, you know, to really get to motivation, you really have to do some real self-reflection.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I mean, I think, again, a lot of people are just stuck on automatic pilot. They just they just feel like life is just going to happen. And, you know, and it's just going to happen, you know, and that, you know, it happens by osmosis. And in many cases it does. But there are a lot of choices that we make that we have consequences for.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And so we have to be motivated to decide, you know, where and which way we want to go. At least that's my thinking.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. You know, as you were talking, I think about this all the time is that when we a lot of times when we ask people, you know, what what what do they want? What do they need? What is their motivation? Sometimes we can be judgmental. Because their motivation is not what we think it should be. You know what I mean?
Health Chatter
Motivation
But anyway, all right, go ahead. I was going to say, I think when Murphy look at you with those soft eyes, he's not saying Stan, he's saying Papa. Papa. I think that's what motivates you to get up and say, oh, God.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But you just said, when they make that question, you back up and just say, hey, you know, because it may not be the same. So people's motivation may not be the same as yours. And so this is where I think it takes a little bit of maturity to understand that everybody doesn't do things the same kind of way.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Everybody is not, you know, you might have a common goal, but you have a different lane in which to get there.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I think sometimes we do go down that pathway. It was funny that you said that because when you said that we talk about cultural motivations, I think about food. I think about body shape.
Health Chatter
Motivation
um i think about how people define the activities that they do uh as this is part of my culture and if you don't do it like this you know then that you know that people have the tendency to just say well you're not doing it right you know those kinds i mean we get into all those kinds of things and so you're absolutely correct and you have to this is why i i that's why i like um
Health Chatter
Motivation
I like thinking about the work that I do as just being a human. There are just some human things that are just that we that we have to do that many times are impacted by a culture. But there are some other things that are common to all people. And so you cannot assume that because somebody does that, that doesn't make them part of that culture. I mean, so.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Right. Well, I think people are motivated by, by, by, by social, connection by family connection, those kinds of things. And so I think that part of it is their own personal experiences. And I'm one of those kind of people that says that, you know, even though people, there are social, there are social pressures.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I mean, when it comes to religion, there are a lot of social pressures that are placed on people and family pressures that are placed on people. And so people are motivated to go along with it just because.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I'm one of those kind of people where I just believe very, very clearly. And you're not talking about this. I am a Christian. I'm non-negotiable. I'm a Christian. But at the same time, I recognize the fact that there are other people that are not. And so I am motivated to connect with them wherever I can, which is on the human perspective.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Commonality. Right. I mean, you and I have had some conversations about this. I mean, we just accept people for who they are. I'm motivated to work with you because I like you and we have a lot in common and we have differences. But, you know, I have differences with my wife. And she motivates you, right? Yeah. No, I'm not kidding. I love her. No, I love her. Okay. Just so you know that.
Health Chatter
Motivation
somewhere and experiencing something else yeah out of their normal environment is that wrong no yeah yeah so stay saying i want to i want to ask sheridan a uh a generational question okay uh you know uh from a generational perspective what are what are what are real motivators for younger people. I'm going to just put it like that.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, I think for us, we, you know, Santa grew up in the fifties where, you know, the house with the picket fence, you know, the, you know, those kinds of things, those were, and so you worked hard, you, you, you strove hard to make sure that those things happen, you know, and in many cases it didn't happen like that, you know, but, but those were the things that were in your mind.
Health Chatter
Motivation
That's interesting. Hey, I think that's an excellent response to what I was going to ask. I think that there are there are just different ways in which we have to now accept the fact that people, that there are different things that we thought would motivate people.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, just like, you know, we thought at one time, you know, being in a career and working at a place for 20 to 30 years was going to be motivating. You know, the fact that your organization was safe for 30 years, but, you know, they're changing jobs every one or two years now. I mean, it's different. And so you have to find, different ways of being motivated?
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. You know, I want to say this, Stan. I think one of the philosophies of my life is this. is that I'm not trying to run your life because I can hardly run my own life. You know what I mean? And so I think that part of the wonderness of our work really is the fact that we know that. And you're right. We do encourage people.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And we hope that the motivation that we, the encouragement that we give self-motivates them.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. Yeah. to make a choice about how they want to live. We're in that space of understanding what our real place is. I just think it's important to understand that you can't make nobody do nothing. To think that what you're saying to somebody is going to cause them to do something, it's not. At least in my mind. If they do it, it's only because they don't want you fussing at them.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So, you know, I think that I think the COVID vaccine, COVID or the pandemic was it was a great example of motivation. OK, because the question was, as you just said, you know, when when when when information came out about about the the COVID, about the vaccine, people were motivated to do to do it through fear. Yes.
Health Chatter
Motivation
They were motivated to do it because they wanted to make sure that they were safe and their family was safe. They were talking about the common good of people. There was a there was a lot of motivation to not do it. Because they didn't want to believe it, and therefore they wanted to believe something different.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I do. I think one of the reasons why we wanted, first of all, we want our listeners to say thank you because Stan and I are going to be really chatting away today.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I think whenever we come into these to these situations that we need to understand, why do we do what we do?
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I think so many times it's so easy for people to think like, well, when I get into this situation, I'm going to have an easy answer. But there's some things that you need to be. Some things that would be it would be wise.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I'll tell you what you need to do, but it would be wise to consider what are the consequences, what are the long term consequences of my behavior now and how will it impact me later?
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, we didn't ask Sheridan or anybody else to give us any research about this, but as two more seasoned people, we thought that we would just chatter and talk about it because I think that motivation is important for us to discuss and to share information about because I think that we think about it a lot, but we don't necessarily talk about it a lot.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Last thoughts from you, Clarence. I just want our listeners to know we thank you for listening to our chattering today. Because all we did, we didn't come up with any specific research. We just started chatting about motivation. And hopefully it'll spark some thoughts in your mind about, you know, why do you do what you do? So I'm finished. Absolutely. Thank you for listening.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And so we wanted to just kind of go into that. But anyway, I think many times, for us, and I wanna come at it from a health perspective, okay? I've probably mentioned this before. Growing up, being younger, you feel like you're invincible. You feel like you don't have to worry about that. You see older people who are going through changes,
Health Chatter
Motivation
And you don't think about yourself in the sense of taking care of yourself. And again, I'm just saying from my perspective, as much as you need to. And one day you see something happen to someone that you thought it would never happen to. And then it makes you start to think about it.
Health Chatter
Motivation
For example, you could see somebody who, as you just said, Stan, somebody who was in a car accident and they didn't have their seatbelt on and something drastic happened to them. Maybe not death, but maybe it was just the fact that they lost a limb or they were incapacitated for a long, long time. It really causes you to think about about it.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So fear sometimes, I mean, that, that, that, that's one of the things that, that sometimes motivate us to, to have honest and open conversation is, is the fact about fear. We fear what we don't know. And so we're motivated to try to, to prevent it from happening to us. Right. Right. Meaning that we can. So that's, that's my initial talk.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, Santa, as you was talking about that, I thought about two things. I thought, first of all, it was, it could have been fear and it also could have been love. Love. Yeah. You know, I mean, he loved you. Yeah. He loved life. you know, he was motivated to, because you brought that information to him, he was motivated to hear you.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I think that that's the thing about motivation is that there are a variety of ways in which we become motivated. I mean, fear is a great driver, but I also think that, you know, the incentive, the incentive in that particular case was that, you know, your father may have thought about longer life, you know, more, you know, I mean, so there's a variety of ways in which we, We are motivated.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And one of the things I always say is that when I when I talk to my other colleagues, I always ask them what makes them feel appreciated because everybody doesn't doesn't move the same way. You know, folks are motivated by money. Other folks are motivated by, you know, compliments. Other people like to be out front.
Health Chatter
Motivation
They're people that just they don't want to they don't want they just want to do the work. And what motivates them is the fact that you value them enough to let them do their work without putting them on the spot. I mean, so the issue about motivation, I think, and why this conversation is so important is that many times we don't ask people what motivates them.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, we just we just assume based on how we feel about things. That's how everybody feels about things, you know. So it's not about, you know. Yeah. So I mean, so I think that. it's important when we start talking about motivation and we want to motivate somebody, we need to ask them, you know, what, what, what drives you, what guides you, you know?
Health Chatter
Motivation
And, and, and I, that's, that's just my thought, but I don't think we talk about it enough.
Health Chatter
Motivation
even being scared isn't working like they know their outcomes but it's just not enough yeah you know um go ahead Clarence go yeah you know I think that that that's an excellent question to ask because I we run across people like that all the time and there's certain things in my life that that I'm not I'm not necessarily I'm not necessarily motivated for it either you know I mean it's just like uh you know like I'm gonna take I'm gonna I'm gonna
Health Chatter
Motivation
I'm going to shoot the dice, you know, and, and hopefully that, but I mean, that that's, that's part of being a human being. I mean, it's like that, but I, but I think a lot of times people, when they get to that point where they don't care, they feel hopeless.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, I mean, they, whatever, whatever it is in their life, they haven't found that, that, that thing to live for where they just like, you know, I'm, I'm, I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go. And it doesn't mean like, you know, they're homeless or anything of that nature.
Health Chatter
Motivation
It's just like sometimes people have experiences in their life that are so overwhelming that they don't know where to go, what to do, how to do it. And there's nobody or support in their life to help them. And so therefore they give up. They survive, but they don't live.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Go for it. Yeah. But sometimes you love people so hard, you know what I mean? But sometimes you love people more than they love themselves. You know what I mean? Good point. Yeah. I think that's part of the challenge, you know, with us as human beings is that sometimes we care for people more than they care for themselves.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And it hurts us because we realize the value that they bring or the value that they have. but they have not achieved that understanding for themselves to understand their value and how much they mean to us. And it's really hard.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I mean, I think that, you know, motivation, I mean, this conversation is really kind of deep because I think it stems, it's a human condition, you know, that we need to address. And especially in a time like this, We hear so much news and so much disinformation and so much information and stuff like that. People are like, where in the heck do I go with this stuff?
Health Chatter
Motivation
Some people say, I don't even get up. You know, because I just I don't know what to do, how to do it. I'm not motivated to do anything, you know, and what skills or benefits or values that they felt like they had in the past. It's like now they're in a circumstance or a situation where it's like, what do I do?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Or ask questions. I mean, you know, it was like, you know, your doctor knew everything. But, you know, ask Mr. Google or Wikipedia, you know. But I mean, I think that what you're saying is that there is a much more effective way of us becoming more literate. And that's one of the things that we need to be talking about for people to be able to take a look at.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, I was going to ask Janelle, and it's kind of in line with what I was going to ask. Can you give us a story of a community that maybe, you know, that worked on this issue and some of the results from it? I mean, so that people understand how somebody else took a look at health literacy and how they worked with it to improve the health of the community. Do you have a story for us?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So, Janelle, how much does health illiteracy cost us? You know, I don't know, has there ever been a cost for the, you know, the lack of our populations being literate? How much extra does it cost us? I was looking at the report that our researchers did. They said 36% of us 36% of us are at basic or below basic level of health literacy. And I'm thinking it's got to cost money.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And I have to believe that organizations know that it costs money for people to be illiterate, you know. And I'm just wondering how much does it cost and knowing that, you know, The color of America is green. Why hasn't there been much more of a focus on this whole issue around health literacy?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Go ahead, Clarence. Yeah, I loved it when you said purposeful miscommunication. I think that's what you said, right? That struck me, you know, that with all the things that are going on, we actually have people that are purposely miscommunicating around a lot of our diseases. And so how does one, how can we really help ourselves to be more
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
aware, informed around these, around these issues where there's so much purposeful miscommunication around these various diseases. And COVID was a great one. And, you know, we were fighting people and people were sneezing on folk and, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff, you know, and, and it was interesting. So yes.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
I always talk about sometimes people use language because they are afraid of losing their soul. You know, they're afraid they're going to lose something by them speaking plain language. And I'm like, you don't know how much more effective you are by speaking language and being able to be bi-directional in terms of conversation.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
But a lot of people, you know, you talked about that graduate level plus. A lot of people feel like if I talk normal, I shouldn't say what normal is, but if I talk plainly, that somehow I'm not, I'm de-elevated. So, but I think around health is so important for us to be able to talk plainly and talk clearly and to help people to understand.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
I mean, because I think that we might be saying the same thing, but we're just using different languages. I mean, and so if we really want to help people to be healthier, we need to be able to understand how to be more bi-directional.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, Clarence, go ahead. So Janelle, since 36% of us are at basic or below health literacy levels, could you give us some tips on how to increase our health literacy?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
I would be amazed to walk into a doctor's office and see that. I mean, I think that's a great idea.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, yeah. I think my closing remark is this, is that health literacy is another leg for us to address disparities. And I don't think that we talk about it enough. I mean, you know, you know, people, um, we do this quick conversation, but people need to understand the importance of going deeper and understanding more clearly what's really going on.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And that's going to be one of the ways in which we're going to address these disparities. But we also, who are practitioners need to understand how important it is for us to also be able to help people understand this, this, um, So I want to thank you. I mean, from my perspective, thank you very much. I mean, uh, um, I learned a lot and, uh, I do appreciate it. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Clarence. You know, Giselle, thank you for that definition. As you were talking, as we were thinking about this particular topic, it seems as though health, the term health literacy is something of a new conversation. And I'm wondering when did it become important for people to become more aware about their knowledge about health? So for example, I am a, what am I, Generation X?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
No, whatever I'm just saying. I'm old, okay, okay. A baby boomer. Yeah, that's what I was. Okay, you know, I forget. Okay, okay, well, baby boomer. You know, I didn't need health literacy as much as talking to my doctor. My doctor would tell me everything, right? And I am wondering if you could just talk about that transition period.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
why it is now important for more people to know and be more literate around their health. Am I making sense?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
That was excellent, because I think you're absolutely right. It is this whole idea about health literacy. People are talking in plain language, and many people think that when we talk about medical things that it has to be somewhat complex, but it doesn't have to be, does it?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Go ahead. I was going to say, you know, it's really interesting. You mentioned 2010. I talked about the fact that it was not necessarily common language. I'm a community member. Okay, Janelle. So I'm a community member. I'm just talking about for me. All right. And my community perspective, and I worked in a health clinic
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And so the whole idea about health literacy was, you know, you hear things like, well, you know, you need to talk to your doctor. And that was the extent of, I guess, health literacy, you know, being able to talk to your doctor versus teaching people how to actually look for our resources or how to actually, you know, examine or look at what the diseases were.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let me do a follow-up question with that. As a community member, how do we become engaged in this work? I mean, because for many of us, we are trying to make sure that we have access to insurance for our population. How do we become engaged?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Dr. Land, I want to ask this question again. This is not politically loaded, but I want to ask it anyway. A lot of people think they have their two different choices around health care. They think that health care is either a privilege or a right. Do you get into those kind of conversations or have you, you know, where people are just struggling with this issue, you know, because it is so complex.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So is it a privilege or is it a right? And you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but I just want to ask.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And this is my personal opinion. I think that a lot of people that are fighting against this are fighting against it until they need it. Until they need it. Exactly. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, yeah. Then it's like, oh, then they realize that they're just like the rest of us.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Which is one of the reasons why I asked the question about community engagement, those things, is because we who are involved in community health, we run into this all the time. People running down to the emergency room. They don't know. Well, they know the emergency room. But many times they don't know other resources that they could take just in case.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And then we have with reoccurring visits to the emergency room. And we need to just kind of figure out how we might be able to. And we're not going to be able to address every issue and every person. But I think that we need to know more information about how we can be preemptive or preventive. get in front of some of these issues, uh, because the, the, the, uh, the pathway is there.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So I think that there are a couple of different things that I could say. One is that we do have those individuals that they have the private insurance, they have access to care. There are other people that are, they're really confused.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
about what's out there uh there are some people that have just decided like you know the system is just a system i'm going to use the emergency room and uh you know it's too complicated for me to kind of figure out and so that's why it it becomes you know uh important for us to know what's really going on i mean it's not like it's not like we can
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
I mean, people have to make their own choices, but I think part of our work is to give people accurate and appropriate information. That's why I was asking that question before, Lynn, about what's accurate, what's appropriate, and then what's actionable. And a lot of times the information out here is not actionable because it's not understandable.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And so part of the challenge for us, for example, this is so funny because I was going to ask you to define some things for me that I just, you know, these are just definitions. I'm sure you know what they are. Things like, and I've seen this before, like TRICARE, things like CHIP. It took me the longest time to understand the difference between Medicare and Medicaid, even though I'm on Medicare.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
You know what I mean? Sometimes I'm like, I'm struggling with this. I mean, people... Sometimes it's not clear. And so that's the answer to your question, Stan, is that it's important for us who are healthcare advocates to really understand where are the resources, where can people go? And we don't. I don't. I mean, some of the stuff I'm struggling with myself.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, and understand, because there's a whole lot of lists out here. And understand, yeah. And understand. There's no connection between the list and the people.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
We got this list, and so that's where you can go, but there is no real interaction or relationship for people to understand the real connection.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Exactly. So that's that's that's my piece of that. And I've said this before. I think that Minnesota is a phenomenal place to live. I love I love Minnesota, but it has a huge disparity issue. A lot of that is because people can't make the connections. You know, so, yeah, we have we have advocates. We have we have practitioners, but they don't understand either.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
and i'm not mad at nobody i'm just saying it is what it is that's that's the struggle that's and that's why we're glad to have you here so that we can kind of talk about this and and and know that we're planting seeds is what i call it your seed has been planted your seed we need help okay we need help so here's here's a here's another good one you know when when um
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
clarence point to heart which is you've got to know they exist and you have to know what to ask for where you have to know what to ask for where to start yeah yeah yeah let me say this real quick lynn yeah go ahead i think the the part of the key is it's uh more intensive training for those navigators to know how to convey information to the community yeah i mean i think
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
A lot of times we go through these trainings. We go through the 30-minute, 60-minute training. And people think like, well, now you got it. But you don't have it. There has to be some kind of reoccurring knowledge that's given to people. You know, as you talked about the building upon one another, I mean, it's important for people to have additional training because you know how we learn.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
We don't do it the first time. A lot of us don't do it the first time. It takes me three or four times to read something before I even get it. You know what I mean? But that's my learning style. But I think that we assume because we gave somebody a 60-minute training or a day's training that they got it, but they don't. They don't. And that's why we keep having all these gaps. That is my opinion.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
I was going to say, Lynn, thank you for chatting with us because that's what this is. This is health chatter and putting up with our probing and those kinds of things. And I really appreciate the fact that, you know, I saw you. I think I saw you writing stuff down and, you know, hopefully we're planting some seeds. But your work is important and your work is important for us.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And we need to know more about your work. and how we as a community can be more supportive of you. Because if we support you, it will give us information and give us access to the services. That's really what it's all about. It's about having access. And that's really what we would like to do with this program is to make sure that people understand that there are people that are working at it.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
You are an advocate for access. And that's what we want. We want to be in that place where we can support you or to provide you with additional helpers. Thank you.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Well, no, no, I don't have a zinger because I don't want you to give me a bad reputation. You know, you said it from the very beginning, the health care system is very, very complicated, you know, and I come at it from a community perspective. I just recently was invited to be on the board of the Minnesota Community Measurement.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And so we're able to take a look at the gap between systems and FQHCs. How does the community utilize the system that you have? I mean, how can we utilize that in order for us to be able to get or to gain more access to healthcare? Because there is a gap.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Okay, I'm a nice guy. He's always nice. I want our guests to know that I do try to be a very nice guy when I ask these probing questions.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So, Lynn, you have been described as an advocate for information access. Tell me, what does that mean?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Barry. I have one that's more of a statement than the other is an opinion, asking for your comments. One of them is with the H word, humility. And I think that's also very important. And one of the issues that, and I don't know how you get around this, is that in science, you come up with a hypothesis or a theory, and it seems to bounce along, holding up pretty well.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
But there's always the expectation that something is going to sidetrack it, and you need a different theory or a different hypothesis. As we learn more and more, that's what happens. That's what happens. Unfortunately, I think the public in general thinks that if you say something and then you change your mind and say something else that you lose trust.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Well, but wait a minute, you told us this and now you're telling us that. How could that possibly be? And you sort of discount that we have new information now that there's really so much more that we don't know than we know. And we have to reformulate, you know, things with them, I think.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So it becomes an educational communication challenge to the general public to understand that we sort of expect things to evolve, hopefully not quite as rapidly as coronavirus variants that seem to, you know, come upon us. So if you wanted to comment about that. And then the other piece was about COVID.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, if you watch TV at all, it seems that 90% of the commercials are about these new biologicals for just about every ailment, which are types of immunotherapy. And they always have, you know, in the. small print at the bottom about how you can be more prone, particularly to tuberculosis, but also a number of other diseases.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And I was wondering what your thought was on the advent of all these biologicals and how potentially that might impact infectious disease spread as more and more people seem to migrate to those type of medications.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah. Also, this is a wonderful, uh, the ground we covered was, was fantastic. Um, I also wait until November to get my influenza vaccine for the reasons you stated. You're a smart man, Barry, a smart man. Yeah, every one of my family medicine communications is talking about the surge in COVID right now.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And, you know, I think from a total confusion standpoint, on the one hand, yeah, we'll get your immunization now. But then they come up and they say, well, if you wait a few months, we're going to have the multivalent that's going to be better. So I think, you know, again, even with something that's very much in front of us, there's, you know, how do you make the right equation the right guess?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
But again, thank you so much for being on this program. It was just wonderful to have the conversation and to listen to all the things that you've done and great things that you've done. And please continue. Thank you so much.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
there is no clarity and very little conversation about it. I mean, that was one of the reasons why I thought this was so exciting. Well, because first of all, you know, somebody brought it up to me.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
And then the key piece for me was, you know, if people, you know, people, we talked about the statistic of people who, first of all, they don't join in, they won't start, but then they won't, then they also won't complete the 36 sessions. Is there a, do we need to adjust the programming? I mean, what is it?
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
I mean, because I'm agreeing with you that it's important, but what is it that causes us to have such a huge gap?
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Was it effective, though? I mean, was the home-based rehabilitation, was it effective? Oh, yeah.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Yeah, it does. I think, you know, it's really interesting because as you were talking about, you know, the time that's being spent, you know, with the 36 sessions, time being spent, you know, by the time you talk about travel and you talk about, you know, getting dressed, getting undressed and things like that, that's almost like a job.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
I mean, and I realize that you taking care of your health is very, very important for you. And I think that it's just a thought in my mind about is there a way to help people to understand the importance of that and then to recognize that the time spent is well worth it.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
to do that. I wasn't snoring. This is quite interesting. Again, I'm very intrigued by expanding the conversation in my community about this, especially in light of the fact that so many people are impacted by this, but yet we don't have a conversation about this. And so I'm really looking forward to, you know, maybe some additional conversations about, about cardio rehab.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Uh, because I think, I think that what, what you've said and information that we've seen is that this is a very important, especially because we know that heart disease, cardiovascular disease is the second leading cause of death. I mean, this is a big thing. And yet at the same time, it's not something that, uh, that I am as familiar or want to be as familiar with it as possible.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
So that's, those are my thoughts, man. This is a great conversation. Great things for me to think about in terms of the work that we do in community.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Yeah, and sin, in fact, even for us with faith. I mean, it would be great to have some of that information attached to the things that we're doing as well, because we, that, that's, that's our lane. Right. Right. This is something that we could provide additional information for. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Thank you, Dr. Thomas, for being here. And we look forward to having you back again. I think it's a great conversation to be engaged in. And after I find out more from my community about it, we need to talk again.
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Yeah. So Dr. Thomas, thank you very much for being here. You know, interesting enough, I didn't even know about cardiac rehabilitation until probably about six weeks ago. A guy called me up and asked me, because I work in community, he asked me, how could he encourage Black males to do more cardiac rehabilitation? Because they're just not
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
In fact, they had like 35 sessions that they wanted them to do, and they weren't showing up. Why don't we know more and more about this cardiac rehabilitation? Why don't we talk more about it in terms of community? Because I think that, you know, just like for me, I'm 70 years old. This is one of my first times hearing about this. What's up?
Health Chatter
Cardiac Rehab
Okay. So, but is that in the hospital? I mean, where people have to go to the hospital, they can't do it at home?
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I know that you're doing a lot of work. I mean, so we can feel that. There's a lot of work that's going on. But one of the things I wanted to talk about was some of the ways in which some of the other ways that the state is using education to help parents to understand the importance of taking care of their children so that they don't have For example, sleeping on your back.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I remember growing up, they were talking about sleeping on your back, learning how to place babies in the crib, sleep patterns. They're talking about substance abuse, those kinds of things. What other kinds of things is the state doing in order to make sure that we are reducing infant mortality?
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
Hey, thanks, Dan, and welcome to all of you who are listening to our show. Michelle Chizzo, who is the State Infant Health and Mortality Reduction Specialist at the Minnesota Department of Health, is our guest today. And I'm really excited about having her here because maternal child health or infant mortality was how I actually entered into this nonprofit world. It was an eye-opener for me
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
in terms of how important it was for us as a community to discuss this. And so it was exciting to have her to accept this invitation to come. So she provides statewide leadership around infant mortality reduction, and she manages a state infant mortality reduction initiative.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I agree with you, Stan. I remember Mill. Mill was one of those programs that came in. I remember some people that were a part of that. And I hadn't thought about that in a long time. Me either. About taking a look at... prepping people before they have children.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I mean, they didn't decide that they wanted to have a child, you know, to let them know what some of the, some of the necessities are like, what was that, folic acid and all that kind of stuff. I mean, you know, we don't even talk about that. You know, it's just, people just have a baby. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
That particular infant mortality reduction initiative provides resources, education, information, and technical assistance to local public health agencies, tribal governments, and community-based organizations to improve birth outcomes.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
She currently leads a project that is funded through the CDC to reduce the incidence of sudden unexpected infant deaths in the Black African-American population in Minnesota. And she manages multiple grants to nonprofit organizations through the Infant Health and Mortality Prevention Grant Program. And I'm saying all these things because I think that this is an issue that we are...
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
Yeah. You know, this is really a very important topic for a lot of people. I was looking at some of the research that one of my colleagues did, and what they said was that in 2021, only 19 states met the Healthy People's 2030 target of 5.0 infant deaths or less per 1,000 live births. So we have a lot of states that have a lot of infant deaths beyond 5,000. I know it was big, but that's a lot.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
that at least for me, I believe is very, very important for us, infant mortality, and not only in the state of Minnesota, also among people of color, but also in our nation. And so we want to just say, welcome, Michelle. And we are going to ask you a lot of questions, so have some fun.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I'm going to just say, Stan, it's too late for me. I'm not going to have any more. But I do want to know about community. I want to know, Michelle, what are you doing or how is the community being included or involved in this issue? around infant mentality. I know that you give money out to different programs, but those are programs, but community engagement, what's that about?
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
But I think it's something that we want to make sure that people are really understanding about the importance of this topic.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
That's interesting because that seems to be a trend that's happening with a lot of different organizations where they're asking for community input. And I think it's long overdue, especially when we've been talking about this issue for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. So thank you for that information.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
So I'm going to do my comments, Stan. Okay. Michelle started off this conversation by talking about how complex it was. And I'm the first person to agree to say that this is a very, very complex issue. And it's one in which I know that the future of our country depends on the health of our children. And I was trying to find that quote that said that. But this is one of those...
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
seemingly never-ending issues in our country that we need to address and i think that as a country you know in many cases we're supposed to be number one in so many different things uh we continuously show that we're not in some cases doing the kind of work that we need to do and so i'm encouraged to i'm encouraged that there are people out there and organizations out there that are actually trying to address this issue and i just know that uh having uh having children
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I know what the impact of that is. I know the emotional impact of that is on families, you know, on communities. And, you know, it's just very, very important that we as a community at least begin to look at these things. So those are my thoughts.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
Michelle, where does America sit? Where does the United States sit in terms of the rest of the world around this issue of infant mortality? We usually are one of the highest ones. Is that the same here?
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
Yeah. You mentioned a lot of different factors that affect infant mortality. And I'm wondering, you know, according to what you think, what is one of the primary factors? Is it the fact that people don't know or they're not given information to know how to have healthier babies. I don't know. I know that this is how I entered this whole public health realm.
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
I came through around infant mortality and I didn't realize how much it was affecting communities and things of that nature. So why do you think we haven't made any adjustments?
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
So tell me, this is Clarence again. So tell me, Michelle, what are we doing to address this issue? You know, you said it. We all have said this and that. This is something that's been going on for 20, this has been going on for a long time. You know, this whole issue around infant mortality. And I'm sure that there's some efforts being made, but...
Health Chatter
Infant Mortality
Could you share with us some of the things that the state of Minnesota is doing in order to try to address these issues?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So, you know, this is a huge ongoing problem. You know, I said, you know, before the show started, when I headed up the cardiovascular unit at the Department of Health, always, for 18 years, always, it was American Indian and African American who are at higher or high risk. So what's causing, first of all, what's causing it besides the fact that, you know, we have social determinants of health.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
We have healthcare discrimination. But this has been going on for a long time already. It's like, what is it that we really need to do in order to impact stroke rates, to impact heart attack rates, to impact high blood pressure to, you know, all these things that seem to be ongoing. And it's like, we're, we're almost like tearing out our hair, trying to figure out what to do.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So, you know, Chris, you're heading up with this program now. And, and, and in many ways, I'm going to say to you, I wish you the best of luck because I think it's way over way overdue, but, vision-wise, going forward, maybe in the short term and then in the long term, what is it? What is it that is really going to make a difference here? Hopefully, finally.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Today, we have two great guests with us, Chris Rhodes and Raven Gibbs. Chris just started recently at the Minnesota Department of Health. She's an Anishinaabe and Bad River Fond du Lac Reservations affiliations. was hired as the director of the Office of American Indian Health in January, just this last January. She comes with much, much background in this area.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
It's like the short term and the long term. What is it truly in the short term that we can do that hopefully will make a difference? And then some of the seeds for long term.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
She's a trusted leader and partner on indigenous public health issues. She launched the health education department at the Fonda Lake Reservation, the American Indian Community Tobacco Projects at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health, and it goes on and on. A great, great addition to our health department.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
It's one thing having conversations because I sense that people don't even know what to converse about besides that we have some problems here, as opposed to maybe the first thing is getting some information out. about what's going on. Then you can circle back and talk about these things. I want to relate a quick story.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
When we were dealing with cardiovascular disease for the indigenous populations, we realized that they were at very, very high risk and we wanted to teach how to take blood pressure. So we went into the communities, literally, you know, people from our department went into the communities and started, you know, trying to educate.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
And then we realized that they weren't tuned in because we weren't considered a trusted person to provide that information. Even though, you know, we have all these degrees and all this other kind of stuff, it didn't matter. And then we engage some of the leaders of your community, you know, the chiefs even, and we would train them. And then they would go out and provide information.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's special show on American Indian, Indigenous, and overall Indian health. We have two great, wonderful guests with us today. We'll get to them in just a moment. I want to thank our illustrious staff that helps make all these shows successful and interesting for you, the listening audience. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell,
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
And then lo and behold, we saw more engagement in it. So the point I'm bringing up is the idea of we, all of us, have to be aware of the culture and what the culture values, how it is that they want to receive information. And we all like to receive information in different ways. And for me as a professional back then, that was a lesson even for me. And I think that lesson still goes forward.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So thank you, Chris, for being with us today and give us some perspectives on this. Also, we have Raven Gibbs is an Anishinaabe as an enrolled member of the Boys 40 Band of Chippewa, has family ties with the Red Lake Nation. She focuses a lot on federal policy. She's a public health social worker and She's focused not only on native and tribal issues, but also overall in public health.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
It seems to me that if somebody from your population presents themselves in a clinic or presents themselves in a hospital with, let's just say, an apparent heart attack, okay, just, okay, how should health providers be trained in order to effectively treat treat somebody in that kind of a situation.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
For one, I think that they need to be trained on differences in values, differences in trust, differences in how to communicate. Any thoughts on that overall?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Holds a bachelor of arts degree in criminology at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health. So she got her bachelor of arts degree and also master's in social work, is currently in the doctoral program at Johns Hopkins University, focusing on health policy. Again, unique perspective on the subjects that we're going to be talking about today. So both of you, thank you.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I remember distinctly doing that and sending my staff to it as well. And I will tell you, I was incredibly impressed and not only impressed, but also it was interesting As hell, I'm telling you, it was just like unbelievable. And I kept kind of knocking my head saying, man, I wish I had known this earlier in my career. But, you know, of course, you could always say better late than never.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
But I really encourage people, when you see an opportunity that, embraces these kinds of populations, go to them. I mean, it's just, it's really a wake-up call in many ways, in a good one. I want to state one thing and then share it, and I know that you have a comment, so hang on for one second.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Um, so Chris, you know, you know, I mentioned, you know, somebody presenting themselves like both an apparent heart attack, but you brought up a very, very important point that we kind of thematically bring through our, our programs here and that's prevention. So you do, what is it that we can do about prevention and then, you know, acute treatment and, and disease management. And to your point,
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
you know, the prevention aspect is really knowledge at a really, really young age for sure. That really, really helped. Sheridan, you had a question, I believe, or a comment. Are you there?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Thank you so much for being on Health Chatter. Actually, this show, Clarence, has been kind of a long time coming. And the reason why is for all the different subjects that we've talked about in the health arena, and you can imagine them all, inevitably, we will say that these populations are at higher risk. And it just goes on and on and on.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Yeah, to get more knowledgeable. I mean, we can put it in on our website. If you want to know a little bit more about this population or just go to talk to somebody, here you go. For instance, I'll give a for instance, I've been reading a lot of William Kent Kruger's books. He's a local author that's very, very connected with the American Indian and his books are really great.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
And it kind of gives you an interesting twist and information load on these populations and what they think and how they think and how we should appreciate how they think that's perhaps different than us. So I'd be remiss if I didn't at least highlight some of the issues. All right, so I mean, Think about all these major thematic areas and how it's affecting this population.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Addiction and substance abuse, off the charts. Tobacco consumption. Violence. COVID and how COVID really hit this population. Access to care. Trust with our care providers. Diabetes is just, whoa, it's just very, very rampant. Helping a population like this get vaccinated, and we're seeing upticks in many, many ways.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
things, including most recently we're seeing up there's like 35, 36 cases of measles just in Minnesota alone. And that can affect all of us. So how is it that we can all work together so that we can really make differences? And it goes on and on with this population. Erin,
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
And, you know, in the back of my head, I keep asking the question, you know, what's going on here? To kick us off, and I want to be, I guess, politically correct or just correct in general, it's like, what's the terminology? What's the appropriate terminology that we should use, everyone, all of us should use and be aware of when we talk about these populations?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So, you know, these... you know, if you just, you know, I'll use myself as an illustration. If you just say, okay, where do I get started? These are the types of things that I think are, would be really great. I mean, even just started with reading a book, you know, just to get, get your head around it a little bit. So Chris, I have a question for you. Um,
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Minnesota Department of Health, not unlike many health departments, and also at the national level as well, are really deep into creating strategic plans. For instance, at the national level, and we've referred to this before, Healthy People comes out every week. every 10 years. And I know that there are some specific objectives related to the subjects that we're talking about.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
But let's go down the funnel a little bit. Is there an overall strategic plan or is that in the works or are we just kind of going little by little here for the state of Minnesota?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Should we be talking about Native American health, Indigenous health, American Indian health, American, Alaskan Native? How do we encapsulate the population that we're dealing with here, or do we have to keep them separate? So who can start us out here? Maybe Chris, you can start us out.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Well put, absolutely. It's easy to focus on the problematic issues, but there are definitely some positives as well. You know, I recommend that if Health Chatter can be useful for you, the podcast format can be useful for you in getting information out. It does not have to stop at this one show. All you need to do is contact us and say, hey, we have something to say. Great. Boom. Done.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
You know, we'll set it up and off we go and getting... a show out there. Anytime, absolutely anytime. We are a partner with you in, in chatting about, about this for sure. So let's do some last comments here. Some takeaway comments that you really want our, our listening audience to, to be aware of. So, so Raven, I'll start out with, with you first.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
And in the meantime, I want everybody to keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Sheridan and Nygaard are second to none. They take care of all of our research, our recording. our production because Clarence and I don't know how to do that. So it's really nice to have them. They're really, really great, great colleagues. Thank you to all of you. We also have Dr. Barry Baines, who unfortunately can't be on the show today.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
OK, so. All right. So then I'll ask if if we were going to label this show. Okay, you know, for the public. What do you think would be the best thing that we should label the show? Good guess? Chris, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Okay, got it. All right, so be it. And then one other quick follow-up, Clarence. When we deal with things epidemiologically, from a data perspective, when we try to get a handle on all the different issues that are affecting this population, again, is it kind of all combined or are there things that are separated out? Any thoughts on that? Chris, are you there?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Go ahead. Chris or Raven, either one. It's like when you get data, how is it presented to you? Is it presented to you as Native American health issues?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
All right, Clarence, here we go. Here's Clarence at his best now. Here we go.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
He's our medical advisor and sometimes gives us some medical twists on some of the subjects that we're talking about. So thank you to Barry. We have Human Partnership is the sponsors for our show. It's a wonderful community health organization that does wonderful things out in the community for everyone. everyone. And so thank you to human partnership.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
You can check them out at human partnership.org. You can check us out health chatter podcast at health chatter podcast.com. All shows will have our research attached to the shows on our website. And also that's an opportunity for you to provide some insight and even provide us with ideas for shows that you might want to hear in the future. So thanks to everyone.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
I was out in the country and I could, and my internet was not that good. I heard part of that. Yeah. I heard part of that. And I think that part of, uh,
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
What I'm glad we're having this conversation is that I recently was working with Dr. Niloufar Hadidi at the University of Minnesota on an African-American stroke project where we're talking about some of the same things is how do you make people aware? What should people know? And then how do you communicate with your doctor about whatever the condition was?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
We just happened to be talking about strokes. But I'm really glad, Tony, that you're telling your story because I think that you know, many people don't really understand the nuances that happen with these issues and why it's so important for us to, first of all, to know ourselves, what's going on, but also to be able to communicate with our doctors.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
You know, I want to say that I want to say this real quickly, though. And Tony, I totally understand you, because that's one of the it's one of the challenges for us, you know, in terms of the work that we do is that there are people that are very skeptical of the of the system. OK.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And I think people like myself who who've had a chance to kind of work with the system, we understand that that's not that's not always in the majority of the cases the issue. Sometimes we just have we have, as you just said, because of the mistrust, people will not will not trust. do a study, but those things also in the, on the other hand, those things impact us as well.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
I don't know if you know that. I mean, I know you know that, but, but because we're not involved in the studies, many times when the medicines come out, they don't necessarily work as effectively for us as they do for other people.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Well, let me say this real quick. I think I think this is really good that we're entering into this kind of candid, open, honest conversation. And we're being very, very transparent. This is a issue that that, you know, that many, many, many people in our communities face. You know, it was interesting.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
You know, sometimes we take it as as only happening to our people, but it's happened to a lot of folks. You know, one of the things that, and I'm gonna just say this real quick as kind of as a side, but also, you know, we talk about health disparities and people think that health disparities are only among, you know, people of color. Health disparities are also rural.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
There are a lot of things that we don't talk candidly and honestly about what we think is just, you know, one group versus another group. And I love the fact that we can enter this conversation and talk about all of the myriad issues
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
that we have and why we need to be talking about trust we need to be talking about transparency we need to be talking about education and one of the things for me as a um and tony i am totally with you one of the things for me is that i believe that people from our own communities need to be talking more about these issues so that we don't have this uh this problem that we can kind of begin to minimize this problem as well yeah uh i i would totally agree with you on that
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Yeah. I just want to say that I hope I'm coming through clear here. Yeah. But I do appreciate, you know, both of you for coming on our program and talking about this issue. And I know that I am working on some stroke issues outside of the health chatter that I will be talking with you specifically about stroke. And you'll be you'll be in contact with me.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And I know that there are many people that will be interested in hearing this conversation. So thank you both for being a part of us.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So I want to ask this question, Dr. Ron, because you mentioned this when you first started talking off. You talked about the changing role of pharmacists because you talk you and Dr. Newsome talk a little bit more about what is this changing role?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
I mean, we talked about the pandemic, but what's what's you know, we used to have, you know, you just said, you know, the pharmacist used to have the soda fountain. You know, you know, you could just go and talk to them. But but it appears that there is a changing role. And we talk about that. What is that?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
I want to ask this question as it relates to, you know, the mental health portion of it, because I know that right now in this country, drug prices are going up through the roof. We know that in our communities, people are not able to, in some cases, not able to afford their drugs. Is that causing an increase in pressures on pharmacists? I mean, or what's happening with that?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
attached to the actual podcast when it comes out so thank you to all so i'm going to pass the baton over to clarence who is going to introduce our guests for today stan thank you as always we appreciate uh the introduction and we also appreciate those who are listening to us and today we have an exciting uh i think it's an exciting conversation and topic it's one that uh
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah. So let me ask this. Yes, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, Angela Nora. I'm sorry.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Fantastic. We talked about the lack of pharmacists. Will AI help us in the future? We have a lot of pharmaceutical deserts and places like that. People are needing their meds and things like that. Will AI be a factor for use in the future?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
For me, in the work that I do, I'm often asked about, and we have some wonderful opportunities to enter this conversation. I also want to say that today is January the 11th, and tomorrow is Happy National Pharmacists Day on January the 12th. And guess what we're talking about today? We're talking about pharmacy and pharmacists. And we have with us again, once again, Dr. Rhonda Marie Chikoulis.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
who is here. She's president of the Minnesota Board of Pharmacy. She is a graduate of the University of Minnesota. She's from the north side. That's really important if you're from Minneapolis, where she comes from. She's from the north side. She's a world traveler, but also she's a health chatter and a human ally and has been working with us on a variety of different things. And so
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah. So Dr. Newsome and Dr. Rhonda, I'd like for you to just share with us your passions. I know that you, you know, Dr. Lenora, you are the national president and Dr. Rhonda, you're the Minnesota president, but you have a passion in your leadership. I mean, Dr. Lenora talked about her mental health, mental health for pharmacists.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Would you just share with us a little bit more about that as we get ready to close our program? Dr. Lenore, you first.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
I wanted to introduce her and let her tell a little bit about herself. And then I need to start off by asking you a question. So I'm gonna let you say a little bit more about yourself, and then I'm gonna ask you a question. And then Stan's gonna ask you some questions, okay?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
I just want to say I thank you both for being here. I know that this was, we talked about a lot of different things, as you have noted, Dr. Rhonda Marie. But I think it was a great time for us to enter into this conversation. And we do want to talk more about pharmacy, about its impact, and about how it affects our community. And so I just wanted to say thank you both for being a part of our show.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, Clarence. Yeah, let me ask this question. Why pharmacy? Let's talk about you.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
We're going to let our audience get a little bit of a chance to know you because we're going to dive deeper into the whole issue around pharmacy because right now in our conversation in the community in this country, there's a lot of concern about pharmacists, about their condition, about pharmacies. But let's talk about you first. Why did you get involved in pharmacy?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So, Sam, I'd like to ask both Dr. Chikoulis and Dr. Newsom this question. It seems that the public's perception of pharmacists is changing, has changed. There have been a lot of conditions. Could you talk a little bit about that? I mean, what's going on? Because it seems like, in fact, recently we've had, you know, pharmacists not working.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
They're stressed out, I think, which speaks to Dr. Lenora's point. What's going on around pharmacy?
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Yeah, so I don't think I've had a lot of health experiences dealing with this. But I guess I would say just like being a Black woman in general, I'm very hyper aware of certain stereotypes or certain health conditions or concerns that will come up regarding my health just due to being a Black woman. So I think...
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
how i kind of like and having just my father's a nurse i have a lot of people in my life who are in health care and just being like aware of those things it i think it helps me be really open with those kind of conversations when they come up um just you know regarding like my health and everything
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
I think it also helps when I'm talking to family members, if they're not really, they don't really have a healthcare background. They don't really know if, you know, they will ask questions and things. I think it helps me in the sense of just like being able to kind of reassure them of things.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And I think sometimes when you don't have that kind of background and maybe a physician or a nurse is coming to you and saying like, oh, you know, like, telling you you might have like things that to look out for, like that are related to Black people, specifically like high blood pressure, cholesterol, things like that.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
I think when you don't have that background, sometimes you can feel a little attacked or singled out. But when you do, and I know that these are just things that are like very prominent in our community, it's helpful to, you know, let them know like, hey, they're just kind of this is kind of what they're taught.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
This is something that they're asking all of us, you know, this is not something they're singling you out on. So I think sometimes like those labels, if you're not really aware of like healthcare or just certain things that are prominent within our community, it can kind of feel like you're being singled out.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
So it's really helpful to have people with a voice to kind of just, you know, reassure you that, you know, there are like, I think a lot of people are afraid of like, you know, doctors and, and things like that.
Health Chatter
Stress
We'll come back to you. So let me ask this question then, Brandon. You talked about growing up. Do you think our world, with this statement, our children are going to inherit a better world than we did, do you think the world, the stress levels of the world is going to be better for our children than for us?
Health Chatter
Stress
Yeah. So let me, let me, let me ask Maddie and Deandra. I just want to bring you in because Brandon is talking a lot about, uh, by young people. And I know that you are, uh, you're, you're younger than Stan and I, for sure. But, but what, what, what are some of your thoughts about, about stress and about what Brandon is saying?
Health Chatter
Stress
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So since we're telling stories, I'm going to tell my story. I'm allergic to walnuts. And one day I ate some walnuts, and I ate some muffin with walnuts in it. And I'm sitting up in my kitchen. All of a sudden, I'm getting a panic attack. And I'm ready to run in front of a truck. I was ready to run out of the house into a truck because I was just so freaked out.
Health Chatter
Stress
Fortunately, the door was locked. No, I'm kidding. But fortunately, you know, I just kind of just kind of relax. But so I do realize that this is a very, very serious topic. I want to ask Dr. Berry a question because we were talking about toxic stress. I wanted to ask you the question about how was toxic stress manifested or show itself in your previous work as a doctor?
Health Chatter
Stress
Yeah, let me say this. Brandon, I want you to know I sent that narcissism link to a lot of my friends.
Health Chatter
Stress
It was interesting to me that when we got the research information, there were so many different factors that causes stress. I mean, we talked about stress in working, talking about statements. I mean, it was just amazing how much stress has been looked at and measured and how many people are stressed out. Can we talk a little bit more about some of the good stuff about stress?
Health Chatter
Stress
I mean, Dr. Berry, I think you started with that. Brandon, what's some good things about stress that we can talk about? Because I feel kind of down right about now. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Stress
Because they're like, oh, no, I don't, you know. It's those kinds of things that we're, as you just said, we have a changing perception about how the world should be. You know, everybody's expected to be younger, you know. So it's a lot of things going on.
Health Chatter
Stress
Go ahead, Clarence. So, Brandon, let me ask you this question. I mean, we've talked about a lot of things. How do you tell your clients to say no?
Health Chatter
Stress
You know what? I'm thinking about my last thoughts because, I mean, you've given a lot for us to think about today. And but but I just think, you know, give us some tips. I mean, if you were talking to the public, I mean, you know, you got two minutes to say something politically. Don't worry about being political. You know, you can be politically incorrect, but respectful.
Health Chatter
Stress
Yeah, clearance. Yeah. So, Brandon, I like that idea because from a community perspective, I know that in so many homes, there is noise nonstop. Yep. Music nonstop. I'm wondering about this toxic stress. How does it impact our children? Because I think, you know, I can just think about that as a great starting point for me.
Health Chatter
Stress
Yeah, Clarence. Yeah, Dr. Berry, I want to ask you this question. How did toxic stress manifest itself in your work? For me? No, I'm talking to Dr. Berry. I love what you were saying about it, but I just want to know from him, how did toxic stress manifest itself in the work that you were doing?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
I think, you know, quite honestly, my honest opinion, and I've said this before, I even had, it was on this show. I think CHWs are some of the most underutilized health professionals in our community. That's what I honestly believe. But I think that there are, you know, I want to get, I want to get, more clearer or dig deeper in this whole thing around barriers to the CHWs.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
I mean, because I think a lot of times we are very political in terms of how we describe some things, but what are the real barriers for community health workers in terms of being recognized and being utilized more in our communities? So you've got to be politically correct. We just, this is health chatter. let's just talk because this is important. This is important.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Stan, let me add something to this real quick. Are you perceived as competitors? The scope of practice issues, yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that as well.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Yeah. Okay. So Ms. Muhammad, I want to ask you this question. What do you really, really enjoy about being a community health worker? I remember I said, what do you really, really enjoy about being a human health worker?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
I think, and I said this before, I think that they're one of the most underutilized resources that we have in our community. My position at HUMAN really is to to create the opportunity to enhance the education and the resources for community health workers. One of the concerns that I had many times is that it's more than the title.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
It's a very valuable position in our community that we should ensure that that person who has that title has the necessary resources and abilities to to fully effectively serve the community. So I have a different take on community health workers.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Number one, I value them very, very much, but I'm also very, I'm gonna use the term critical and not in the sense of negativity as much as I am very concerned that they have the best. I know that they're good. I know, I know that they can make a difference and I don't like seeing them, uh, minimized in terms of the work.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And that's really one of the reasons why I got to ask that initial question of mine is that, uh, they are trusted messengers and the ones that are really, really good are the ones I really, really want to work with.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And so that's, that's, that's the piece for me. And that's the piece that you man plays is that, um, we want to be very supportive of those organizations and those individuals that are actually really, really doing the work so that our community can become healthier.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
My last word. We run in when others run out, but we need support. We need respect. We need to have the backing of the community. professional community. Our community knows our value. We just want to make sure that other people provide us with the kind of support that we need in order to do a more effective job to make our communities healthier.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
You know what I'm saying? By the way, Stan, I am a doula as well. You're a doula as well. Okay.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Just so you know. Okay. So whenever you're ready, Von D, we will be ready. Okay.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
For a couple of years. I'm a fatherhood doula, which means that I don't do the birthing stuff. I just help the men get through the process and understanding the process.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So I think you kind of talked about this, Stan. A lot of people do not understand what a CHW or community health worker is. And so I'd just like some of our guests to just explain to our audience what exactly is a community health worker. And- and tell me some of the other names that CHWs use.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So, you know, interesting enough, I think, Stan, you mentioned this, is that other countries have been utilizing CHWs a long, long time. I spent some time in Africa and I spent some time with some oral health CHWs. So there's a variety of ways in which CHWs are engaged in the community. And so what I wanted to do was to just talk about how do you bridge the gap?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
You know, you talk about you are a bridge. How do you bridge the gap between the community and the medical professions?
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
it's important that there is support for people when they're going through this process. And that, I know that one of the first things that I saw that I thought it was this, the fact that death and dying is a fundamental part of the human experience.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And so in some kind of way, all of us are gonna be affected, whether we're young or whether we're older, at some point, this issue is going to come up. So that for me is the important thing is that when this issue, does come up, that we have ways in which we are able to be supportive of each other, but also that we have skills and tools in which to help us to get through it. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
That's a great question. I think, you know, I think growing up, I couldn't see past a certain point. Right. Like not not not in a literal sense, but like I couldn't think I was I couldn't think to when I was 21. You know, I was 21 years old. I was 20 years old. I got shot three months before my 21st birthday. You know, so growing up, I knew I knew one day I would get shot.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I knew there was a high chance of me getting shot. I remember even after me getting shot, I went to like my old neighborhood one day and there was five of us just hanging out. And the common thing that all of us had with one another was all of us got shot within a one block radius of where we were standing that day. Wow. You know what I mean? I don't know if a lot of people can even say that.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
You know what I mean? When people like us get together in my communities, it's primarily because of trauma, right? Somebody dying. And, you know, a lot of times that's because one of our friends is getting murdered, right? Or something else that affects us in some kind of way. So to answer your question, I I can't say no. I can't say yes.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I know at that time, I was starting to want to go to school and get out of the streets and make better on myself. I don't know what that would have what that would have looked like, you know, at that age, probably not. But, you know, who knows when I was 40 or 50, would I have wanted to start doing acts of service and giving back in some sort of way?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I would like to hope I can say yes, but I can't even honestly say yes because at that time, it's just self-preservation, right? It's self-preservation by any means, you know, whether that's carrying a gun, whether that's something, whatever it is, I have to get my next meal. That's how I was wired, you know?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Can I say something? Yeah, absolutely. I think our society has not been taught to really appreciate and embrace what prevention is. As a society, the medicine is always in the candy. We don't treat people before they get sick. We treat people when they are sick. We have to really, like, come to a universal kind of understanding of what is safety, you know?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Because in my household, or growing up, or probably, like, for lack of a better term, anyone, right, is like, you know, if I put my gun up in the closet behind this shoebox, it's safe because my kid can't reach it. But they don't think about, oh, will that kid get a step stool and get curious because they just want to see what's up there. They don't think about that, right?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
And we're not taught to think like that as a society. We're taught to think about things when it actually happens. So, like, me growing up in the inner city, you know what I mean? We had metal detectors going to my school. All the way down to our bottom. We had to take our shoes off. We had to clap our boots. And we had to walk through the metal detectors every single morning.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
So we had to get to school like an hour, a half an hour early to walk through metal detectors in order for us to get to class on time. Yeah. So when these school shootings happen in these suburban neighborhoods, I'm like... They don't have metal detectors? Like, that's what we think. But they don't because what people think, right?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Because they're white or because they're in an affluent neighborhood, they're safe. They don't have to worry about guns. But for us, we get wanded. We have metal detectors every day, which, hey, it kept us safe and I'm happy. But just look at that. They took for granted their safety, but They don't know that they actually saved our lives by also stereotyping us.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
They saved our lives, but they didn't do the same thing back home. And that was impacting them the most. Yeah, you make a great point. Yeah. So, you know, we have to really focus on prevention as a society. We have to understand that prevention is worth investing in. You know, whether it's insurance companies, whoever it is, we have to really focus on prevention. You know, so.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
You know, I think it's hard in certain areas. And I think why I could perceive it being hard in like my community is because we're impacted by gun violence so much that it may be perceived as now you're just teaching my kid how to use a gun. Like, I don't know. You know what I mean? And that's the disconnect. I think it really takes for...
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
people who could really identify with these intersecting identities that can really come in here and really speak to people about, hey, we need to... Some people are going to do it anyway. I used to always say this to my mom. When I was growing up, I used to smoke weed. I used to smoke marijuana a lot. So a lot of the times when I got arrested, it's because of smoking weed.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
But I always told my mom, listen, I'm going to smoke anyway. Why don't you just let me do it in the house? But she couldn't get past it. Like, hey, listen, it's illegal. And I got it. It's illegal. And I understand why she did it. But I'm like, mom, I blamed her, which is pretty selfish of me. But it was like, hey, it's also a way for me to remain safe.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I mean, of course, we couldn't come to the... from the terms on that. But now that the conversation is changing about marijuana in different states, that could be an option for parents, right? It couldn't be an option for me before in New York, but now it could be an option for parents depending on where you live. So that's what parents need to understand what safety actually looks like.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Like we said before, what does safety look like for you? All right, your kid is probably going to get a gun anyway, whether it be illegally, without your permission or whatever, because how many people in the house... I know my parents didn't know if I had a gun in the house, you know? How many kids are out here?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Their parents don't even know if they have a gun because they're trying to respect it. Obviously, they're not going in their room. They don't want to ruffle any feathers, but we're not being honest with the people that love us the most, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
So it's going to take a lot of it's going to take a lot of advocacy work and a lot of people, like I said, that identify with these intersection identities to say, hey, listen, I want to teach you and I want to teach you and I want to teach your kid how to be safe with guns. I need to teach you how to teach your kids how to be safe with a gun.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Maybe it's about working with the right going into these schools, teaching the educators how to talk to their how to talk to them. to the parents about gun safety and getting the parents to go to classes so they could teach their kids themselves and give them an introduction and then bring them out of the house. It's going to take a lot of work, but I think it's possible.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
You know, I'm just happy that I'm able to have some conversations like these because I couldn't even imagine myself having conversations like these a few years ago. So I was thankful to have this conversation, this discussion. I'm happy to meet people like you and Tom and Clarence along the way to help me shape the person that I want to be.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
And I just hope that this can inspire other people to have conversations and to get involved and to start to volunteer. You know, it's a great thing for us to have on our minds, especially now.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, I mean, you make very good points. I mean, speaking to you the other day when you brought that up about going to people's houses, it made me think and I asked my wife, like, man, like. we have to make sure we ask some of these questions. Coming up, I never even thought about these things.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
So that's why I'm happy I get to speak to people like you about topics like these, because it helps me expand on some of the things that I may have never thought of. But getting back to you, and this is why organizations like Protect Minnesota or the advocacy groups are important to help with resources like this, because although one may think $70 is cheap,
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I don't know how many households could actually afford to buy like $70. How much disposable income does a person have every week to where they could get a biometric safe, right? Because, you know, some people may not even get their guns legally, right? So even though they think like if you can afford a pistol, you could afford a safe, but... How did they even get their gun?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Did they just get it from like some kind of like bartering system, like traded drugs for a gun, you know, trade a little bit of marijuana or some other kind of drug for a gun or some other service for a gun? So that's that's the question, too, right? Because some of these guns aren't even legal, you know, and then we have to ask ourselves, too, like.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Yeah, we want to ask somebody else about if they have guns inside their house, but we don't even know if their gun is legal. So would they even tell us if they have guns in their houses? So that's another barrier to keeping our children safe too, right? So it's about how can we really trust one another and have open dialogues about guns? Because imagine trying to talk to people about guns.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
We're afraid to even ask other people about, talk about like money and finances. So talking about guns, that could be really hard in certain households, especially like urban households. So, yeah.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
No, I agree. And I agree that we're there with the conversation.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I remember a few weeks ago, my daughter just turned two, you know, but a few weeks ago we were at another couple's house and they were both in the army, you know, and she just mentioned out loud, like the woman who house we went to just mentioned out loud, like, oh, all my husband does on the weekends is go shooting and then come back home, you know?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
And automatically I thought like, oh, I don't, that was a trigger for me, you know? So when we left, I'm talking to my wife, like, I don't know if we can remain friends with them because I don't know if I don't know if I want to have a conversation with them about their gun storage. I don't even know how to have that conversation, you know.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
So I would also like to think I'll hear from you guys about like how how do we even engage in that conversation? No matter what race they are, like how do I engage in that conversation with with someone else about like.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know what, Santa, I think that's great. Because I think that somebody mentioned a little bit earlier, I remember traveling overseas. And I walked out of the hotel, and I saw people that I knew who they were. But I couldn't respond to them. I mean, it was like I had always heard of this thing called jet lag, and I had been traveling back and forth. I had never experienced that.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So jet lag was not a part of my packing plan. But I do think you're right. You do have to think about what, if you get into those kind of situations, what can you do?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Well, that's a really good question, Stan. I, um, um, Let me think about that a little bit. Let me think about that a little bit.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Let me jump in real quick. Now that I've recaptured my thoughts here. Okay, go ahead. I think the whole idea for me, the pros of traveling really is life experiences. It really helps to, for me, to have a deeper appreciation of many times where I'm at, where I'm currently at. It gives me a chance to look at other things. But I do think it's important to to travel.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Because I think so many times people have a worldview that's only 10 square blocks or five miles. And with that kind of, I'm not going to call it a distorted perception, but with that kind of limited perception, it can cause you to misread so many things that are going on around you and that's going through your sphere.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And I have always been a strong advocate that when it comes to traveling, proof of traveling, young kids should travel to foreign countries or different places when they're eight, nine, 10. And in some cases, say they're two or three weeks or more. for them to really appreciate what they have. So that would be my restored comment about pros of traveling.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know what's interesting, though, as you were talking, I think about the fact is sometimes we travel for relaxation and we wind up coming back more tired than when we left. And I think that there has to be some tips, you know, based on, again, based on what it is. I mean, if it's business, that might make a lot of sense.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
But I think there's got to be some tips on what we can do to make sure that our time spent relaxing... could be more relaxing versus, you know, feeling like we got to do everything, you know, that's on the brochure. So that was my thought is that sometimes when we travel, we travel for relaxation, but we don't necessarily plan for relaxation.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
We plan to do activities and we don't get to the most important thing is why are we really doing what we're doing?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Well, you know, Sam, I think that's a good point to talk about traveling is you got to know who you're traveling with. You know, and I think sometimes we're forced to travel with people that, you know, no matter what we do, we're not going to enjoy it. You know, I mean, not because you don't enjoy them. It's that we have different interests.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, if I'm going someplace, I don't want to go someplace where I have to shop. You know, I don't want to go to all the different vendors and shops. I mean, that would drive me crazy. I want to go to the beach a little bit. But I don't want you to think I'm a drag because I don't want to go with you down to, you know, to these other things. You know what I mean?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So I think sometimes, and again, you get back to Barry, sometimes you have to plan things and say, okay, look, this is what we're going... You know, this is my personality. This is my style. That's your personality. That's your style. We can agree on some things, but... can we also have our individual space for us to enjoy this time together?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, sometimes you go places with people and they want to continuously talk to you, you know, because we never have a chance to talk. Well, you know, this is not the place where I want to be on, you know, be talking to you all the time. It's not that you don't love them, you know what I'm saying? But it's true. It's like, Can I rest? But we're never together.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So I think that you have to be conscious of that partner's request. But I also think you have to have respect, too, for what you need to do when you're traveling.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
One thing that's... Barry, what are you thinking? I see Dr. Barry laughing back there. What's up, Dr. Barry?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Let's see. What do we do? Or why did you select this week? You know, we should have done it next week, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Clarence, your thoughts, last thoughts. Yeah, I just want to say I agree. Again, planning came to the top of my mind right away. Not only do the planning list of your material things that you need, but also a checklist of your relationships. as you're going through to say, hey, like, you know, what do you like? This is what I like. What do you like? You know what I mean? This is what I want.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
What do you want? You know what I mean? So that when you get there, you don't have somebody mad with you for the half of the trip because you missed something. You know what I mean? And it sounds kind of crazy, but I think everybody understands that. You know, one missed cue could ruin your whole trip.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So I think that just by checking in, you know, asking some simple questions from the very beginning, would be very helpful in making that trip more enjoyable and relaxing.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Yeah, well, let's talk about the phone situation. That recently happened to me. I was traveling, and I recognized it as I had gone through the gates. Yeah. And my wife actually got a ticket trying to get my phone to the information desk. So I appreciate that. So I do appreciate those tips. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Because it was stressful because I thought about I'd have to have the bed answer something to me the next day. But, you know, Barry, listen to you. I realize that in the Stone Age, when it comes to thinking about medicines and preparation. Now, I'll immediately go get my toothbrush, my toothpaste, make sure I got some deodorant. You know, all those kind of things, all the basic kinds of things.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
I'll take my meds. And unfortunately or fortunately, I have my own way of doing my scheduling, which may or may not be helpful for anybody but for myself. I think as long as I'm doing it, I'm doing it. You know what I mean? But I do appreciate the fact that you talked about planning.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Because we do get into those situations where if we don't think about what we're doing or where we're going or the circumstances, because there's not a CVS on every corner. So you have to really think about that. And even though we're traveling domestically, or you're traveling domestically and not internationally, I still think it's important, based on what you're saying, I'm going to do it now.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Thank you, Barry, for encouraging me. I've got a better job of planning.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Hello, everybody. This is Clarence Jones, and I am excited to talk about the show today. We're going to be talking about organ and tissue donation. And we have two wonderful guests, Ms. Susan Mao Larson. I'm just going to give a high level introduction to them because they're going to talk a lot about themselves and about their work. And I just want to quickly get to that.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Yeah. So Susan, I want to, and Nicole, I want to ask you this question. We have all these people that have signed up for, to be organ donors, but a lot of them don't, are not necessarily meeting the specific medical qualification to be an organ donor. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Let me do a follow up question real quick. Yeah, yeah. When we talk about organ donation, a lot of people agree to it. but only 58% or so are actually registered to do this. What are some of the reasons why people, they might agree to it, but they don't necessarily actually sign up to become an organ donor? I mean, what are the myths? What are some of the myths that you come up with?
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Because I know that we need more people to do this, but there seem to be some struggles with people actually putting their name on the bottom line.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Susan has both a undergrad and a master's degree from the University of Minnesota. She is the Chief Administrative Office for the organization LifeSource, which is the organization in the Upper Midwest. And then we have Ms. Nicole Salaam, who is the Director of Diversity and Inclusion at LifeSource.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
And that's kind of the high-level piece that they're going to share more about themselves throughout the program. I've had the honor of working with LifeSource for more than, and I always joke about this, two centuries. I've known them in the 20th and 21st century, but they are, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the best community organizations that I've worked with.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Clarence. So how is organ donation handled around the world? I mean, we talk a little bit about what's happening here in Minnesota and the United States, but how is this perceived around the world?
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
And so we are honored that we are able to talk about this very, very important topic. And so with that, Stan, I'm going to let you go ahead with the first question, because this is a topic that I think that all of our partners are really, really interested in participating in.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
I would say with that same thing too. And Kevin is really moving around talking about transplants. I know. He's a great ambassador.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
One of the first things I said when I started the program was that this was one of the best community organizations I've ever worked with. I think that story was just an example of how great it is to work with LifeSource and with Susan and Nicole.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
So for those that are struggling, for those that are concerned, for those that are interested, this is an organization that will take care in terms of sharing with you appropriate and accurate information about the process.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Sounds great. Clarence? Yeah, so Susan and Nicole, We talk a lot about, or we hear a lot about organ donation. Can you talk about what is the need for organ donation? People don't necessarily have a, many times, a real clear idea about how important this particular topic is.
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Yeah, yeah. Clarence. Yeah, so Nicole, let me ask you this question. You are the Director of Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion. Can you talk about how does that fit into this whole issue around organ and tissue donation?
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Clarence? Yeah. So Susan or Nicole, someone or a family agrees to donation. Will you tell us what is the impact of that donation? What does it mean?
Health Chatter
Organ Donation with LifeSource
Okay. Okay. Okay. Someone or a family agrees to donation. What is the impact of that donation?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Jay, I want to talk to you about research. Okay. Is there a certain demographic that is experiencing long COVID more than other people? Well, I think when COVID first came out, you know, it was a lot of the older people they got, you know, they got it, those kind of things. But now with long COVID, is there a demographical shift or is it the same or is it all over the board? What do you see? Well,
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I appreciate that because I think that part of what you just said was that for a lot of folks, and I think one of you mentioned this before, a lot of people are so interested in just pushing through it. You know, it's just like, well, you know, life is tough anyway. You know, so I mean, I'm already feeling fog brain, you know, just those kinds of things. But in terms of
Health Chatter
Long Covid
experiencing those things, you know, we want to know that if we are experiencing those things, is it, can we spread it? You know what I mean? I mean, we just don't know. And I think that that's what's good about this conversation is that we're just chatting about this and we understand the uncertainty about a lot of stuff.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I mean, you talk about a lot of things that, you know, even now you're uncertain about, or we're uncertain about, or the scientists are uncertain about, and it's good to be able to say that.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I appreciate that. Let me ask, let me do a follow up question. the long COVID versus the vaccination rates, okay? People that are experiencing long COVID, how many vaccines did they take? I mean, do people that have taken less vaccine get long COVID more than people that have taken more vaccines? I mean, I don't know. I'm just I'm just trying to figure it out.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I mean, we have to I think we have to five vaccines now. Right. So if you get five, maybe you won't get it. I don't know. But I'm just but those are the kind of questions people are going to ask. Like, well, if I take enough vaccines that I won't get it. And I mean, so can you help me?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I want to ask this question. So there are a lot of people that are not dealing with COVID or long COVID, right? I mean, they just taking it through. What are the health issues that will emerge besides death for people that don't address this issue? Because I'm telling you, there's still people there that say it's fake news and all this kind of stuff.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And so by not addressing this issue, not being open about it, what are some of the major issues that will emerge, health issues that will emerge as a result of not taking care of this issue? Besides death.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. So let me do this real quick. This is just to satisfy my curiosity, okay? What are some of the ongoing studies around long COVID? I mean, I'm just interested in what's being studied about it.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
We're going to get more clinical. We're going to get some of the research-y kind of things.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, I thought it was interesting when you talked about COVID fatigue. It just kind of, you know, in my mind, it just went two different places. Yeah, we do have fatigue from COVID, but we also are fatigued by all the COVID information. Right. You know, so it's like, man, you know, at some point, like, you know, let me just die. I don't know. I died, but you know what I'm saying?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Let me just, you know what I'm saying? It's just, it's, but I think it's important to continuously try to find ways ways to engage people in a positive information so that they can understand how important and how vital this information is. And I mean, so, yeah.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, Stan, you know, let me say this real quick. You know, Jay, when you were introduced, Stan said you were, you know, you were the epidemiologist. And I couldn't spell that word for a long, long time anyway. But, you know, chronic diseases. How is this, you know, you said sickle cell. I mean, you just started, you know, Stan missed a whole lot of things that are underneath your leadership.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
How has it affected those issues or those diseases? Yeah. Is there anything that has emerged that you want to, I mean, that you're gonna talk about? Any particular disease?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, I never heard the connection between the shots that you mentioned and diabetes. Oh, I've never heard that. I mean, I think that's that's that's quite interesting information for me.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. So I'd like to go back again, Jay, to what you were trying to talk about, some of the symptoms of long COVID. So when you get COVID, can you tell if you're going to have just regular COVID or long-term COVID?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. Let me, let me, let me, let me go a little bit further. I think a lot of people during this period of time, um, didn't get COVID, but they had some other kind of strange things happening during this period of time. Were there other viruses that came up during this period that we don't talk about as much?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So, you know, this is really kind of an overwhelming topic. Okay. Let me tell you why, because Jay has already said, Kate, you probably too have said you got over 200 symptoms. you know, that would indicate this. And, you know, with so much going on, I mean, it seems like, well, even if a bump comes up on my nose, I mean, should I be testing for COVID? I mean, it's, you know what I'm saying?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I mean, it's like, it gets to be very, very overwhelming. And so my question to you You know, in very simply and I come and I come from a community perspective is, you know, really, what should we be doing? I mean, you know, you know, saying we know that it exists. We know that it impacts us. I mean, what should we really be doing? I mean, there's so much fake news going out here.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, it's good to hear from you what, you know, bottom line kind of sort of what we should do.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So Anna, let me ask you this question. What do we really, really need to know about water and the supply? What do we really, really need to know? I mean, because everybody assumes water is just a, you know, just like, oh, well, it's just water. But what do we really, really need to know about water and the supply?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Hey, thanks, Dan. And I want to thank everyone for listening to our show today. Great show. And I want to start off with Dave because this is how we got connected to this whole process. I had seen Dave in a couple of community events and I just happened to see him in a bowling alley one day and we had a chance to sit down and talk about
Health Chatter
Water & Health
I want to ask a question in this, and I want you to be totally honest with me, okay? Because this is health chatter, and so we don't do politically correct stuff. We just talk, all right? So what is the real future of water in Minnesota and the world? Because I think that there are some real challenges that we're going to be facing. So what is the real future of water in Minnesota and the world?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
And it was there that I found out that he was involved with water. And we had this fascinating conversation about water and what's happening here in Minnesota. And so it's been probably close to 10 years that we've been talking about having another conversation about water. And so today we are honored that Dave and his colleagues are here.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Yeah, and that gets into that whole issue around health equity because we know that, and we want to make sure that that's one of the things that we talk about was that it costs a lot of money to maintain these water systems. And you have people in places where they don't have the tax structure or they don't have the infrastructure to make that happen. So what's gonna happen?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
I mean, again, I mentioned Flint, Michigan, I mentioned some other, there was a lot of different places that we talked about How are we going to be able to, you know, again, I know we're talking about Minnesota here, but there are other people in other parts of the world. How are we going to be able to and what should be our focus in terms of making sure that we maintain good, healthy water?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Well, you know, interesting enough, the question that I have, and I'm a community member, so the question that I have is really about the lead in the water. I think, Anna, you were alluding to that. You were talking about the pipes and flushing out the things like that. Can you talk, Anna, could you talk about the way in which the state is taking a look at lead?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
I mean, I know you can't do everything, but... It is an issue and it's causing problems with pregnancies, with brain development, those kinds of things. So what do we do?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
I just want to tell you, Dave is the assistant manager of the drinking water protection section at MDH. We also have Anna Sleep. She is the lead in drinking water coordinator for the drinking water protection program at MDH. We have Sandy Berman. He is a current drinking water administrator for the state of Minnesota. We have Alicia Overbow.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
She's a supervisor of the communication and strategic initiative unit at MDH. We got some really special people here. And we're going to be talking about something that when I first started talking to Stan about this, I started talking about this issue around liquid gold. Because there's so many articles in the paper that's talking about water. And we're here in the land of 10,000 lakes, right?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Let me ask a question there. This is kind of more of a personal question. What's that with you, Anna? How did you get involved in water? And then Sandy, how did you get involved in water? I mean, it seemed like, you know, I'm always interested in that. You know, what was that epiphany that says, like, hey, you know, I like water. I mean, you know what I mean. So let's talk about that.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
And it should be that we don't have any water problems. But I think it was a time for us to have a great conversation about this issue. So with that, Stan, I'm going to turn it back over to you, because I know that you have a lot of questions to answer or to ask our colleagues here.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
You know, it's interesting. Yeah, let me say this real quick, Sam. You know what's interesting for me? This is health chatter, okay? I never, never, ever, I'm a seasoned person, okay? I never, never realized that water had different tastes. You know, it was just water. And I think maybe about, my wife would always tell me stuff like, well, I like this water better than I like that water.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
I said, well, what difference does it make? It's just water. Okay. But it's only been very, very recently that I found out there is a difference in the taste of water. And, you know, I think, Anna, you talked about the fact that, you know, you got minerals, you got chemicals and those kinds of things. And so now I've become a water connoisseur or snob. So anyway, I just want to tell my story.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Thank you both. Thank you all. We have those that were on the, that spoke and those that didn't speak. We thank you for the work that you're doing. I really, you know, Dave, when Dave and I were talking about this, I really appreciated his explanation of so many different things about how the water supply is being protected. You know, and you know, you talked about the,
Health Chatter
Water & Health
the work that's being done in order to make it safer. And so I just want to say from community health, for community health process, thank you. And, you know, thank you. That's what I say. I love that water. Stan.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Yeah. You know, I am excited about having you both on this program, and the reason for that is that I know Stan started off talking about the toxicity of water and what's going on in the world. Can you give us kind of an overview of what's happening here in Minnesota as it relates to water? Because I think that part of it is that, again, we are in a place where there is a lot of water.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
We see a lot of water around us. But every time we turn on the news, we hear about places like Flint, Michigan and other kinds of places where there's some real issues. We hear about other places in the world where they're having problems with water. And I think that many people are interested in... learning about what is good water.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
And, you know, sometimes when the water comes out, it's brown, those kinds of things. So let's talk about water. Let's talk about its vitalness and why is it important. And I like what Stan said. Stan talked about the dogs. That's also part of public health as well. So just so you know that. Yeah. But let's talk about water. What's the state of water in Minnesota?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Thank you. Anna, I want to ask you a question though. Even though Sandeep's talked about how great the water supply is here, a lot of folks are drinking bottled water, A lot of people are not, you know, so I know in your position, drinking water, what's going on with the bottled water?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Because I think that's also a concern for a lot of people, even though, you know, you say that we have safe water. A lot of people are drinking bottled water. I've got three brands in my office right now. What's up with that? Why are we so concerned about water?
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And sometimes in America, we are impressed with numbers, not necessarily with truth. And so what Maddie was saying was we're inundated with these things. And I think we also have gotten to the point where we don't use a lot of critical thinking.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I remember. Yeah, we don't do critical thinking. I remember I was, and I should, again, I don't know, this must be therapeutical for me. But anyway, I remember being in school, in a wonderful school, St. Thomas, and I had to go through this, what was it called? It was logic thinking. And I remember how I struggled with that.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know, because it's like I was so used to just, you know, yeah, like kind of going through and I realized there is there is a process that you have to go through in order to come to some real conclusions. And I think in our society today, we're so we want we want our answers right away. And if it doesn't happen in 10 or 15 seconds, we're going to stay stuck.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
So I think that critical thinking is one of the things that we have lost, which is why fake news can be so powerful in terms of influencing us, is because we don't think beyond the 10 or 15 seconds. And so they know that. And so they load the first 10 or 15 seconds up with all the junk that they can. Again, I'm making generalizations here.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
In order to make us believe that they are very knowledgeable and that they are influencers. That's my thought.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know, I think a while ago. Yeah. Well, I think that when the Internet became popular.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
Realize that they could they could submit a. A story without necessarily being identified. You know, that's when a lot of people decide that, you know, they are going to add their opinions to whatever the topic was. And so, yeah, I just think that people now with the use of technology, everybody has an opinion. It doesn't matter. You know, you're going to express your opinion.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
No matter how good it looks, there are still people that will implant a worm inside of that. And I think that people know that. People know that if you sprinkle a little bit of truth into a conversation or a topic, that people will assume that most of that other part of the conversation is true as well, unless you do critical thinking. And I think that that's what's so...
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
That's what's so sad about us is that, you know, as a society where we're just, everybody thinks things are going to happen. In fact, I was always talking about the fact that, you know, we watch TV and people go from rags to riches in 30 minutes, you know, and that's not life. That's not real.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
But that's what people, when they enter into something, they think, well, if it doesn't happen within 30 minutes or a year, then it's not going to work.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And there's going to be somebody out there that's going to believe what you believe. You know what I mean? But I think, Sam, when I saw this, when we were going to do this, a couple of things came to my mind. First of all, who really benefits from fake news? Yeah. Good question. And what is the real impact of fake news upon us as a society? I mean, those are the two things that happened for me.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know what, Sandell, let me say this real quick, though. You may not want to hear it, but there's going to be somebody in your life that's going to keep bringing it up.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
So the other part for me is this, is that you have to be willing to let some people go. I mean, because there's some people that they're stuck there. They're going to continuously bring that drama back. to your conversation and into your life. And so you have to decide, like, you know, I don't want this anymore. And that's a personal decision.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I mean, you know, there's some people that should be in your life, some people that shouldn't be in your life. But there are, you know, when it comes to this These topics, there are some people that are so fixated on them that no matter whatever you talk to them about, they're going to bring that topic right back to that. You know what I mean?
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I mean, you know, it could be we're going to talk about poverty. We're going to be talking about, you know, the presidential race. No matter what you say to them, they're going to bring that stuff back. And as you just said, we get overloaded with that stuff. And you have to make a decision like, you know, I'd let that person go.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
If you can. If you can. I mean, sometimes you can't. Sometimes they're your boss, so you can't. You know, you can do about that. But for the most part, like... You know, you have to take it.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You have to think about your own mental health in this process, which, you know, again, that's that's a health portion about it, because we know that this fake news is affecting us mentally, spiritually, physically, everything. I mean, so we just have to.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
We just have to I think sometimes we just have to take a step back and take a look at how is this personally affecting us and how much can we take?
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
So, you know, who would have benefits from fake news? I mean, you know, if it's not real, what is it?
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
Yeah, yeah. See, I think that's fantastic. I want to go back to something else because you were talking about health. We need to kind of talk about what is this, what other kind of health issues are generated by this fake news, by this massive increase in disinformation or misinformation, whatever.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
But there has been an increased use of substance abuse, alcohol use, and anxieties, mental health issues as a result of some of this fake news. some of this work, okay? And then I think a lot of times in this work, there's increasing loneliness. I mean, how are you gonna be lonely with all of this stuff that's going on? How are you gonna be lonely?
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
But sometimes you just wanna just cut everything off. You know, you hear so much stuff, you just wanna, I don't want to be bothered. I mean, you know, you want to go home and just go to bed. You know, you got to you got to work. Go home after that. Like, man, I can go to sleep. I don't want to do that.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
But then the other thing, too, I think that that is being reported is that there's an increase in anger.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
uh and anxiety that's being generated by all this stuff i mean you sometimes when you when you when you bring up a particular topic people just kind of explode on you like whoa whoa you know i i'm a nice guy i'm just trying to talk to you in a nice tone but you mentioned that you mentioned certain words it's just like a trigger they like then they go ranting and waiting like whoa whoa you know you know but anyway so those are the kinds of things i think that are being generated mental uh uh in terms of uh
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
emotional factors that are being generated by the increased exposure to this topic.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
information that they need on health issues that they believe that they can embrace and and trust going forward i think that that that could be problematic going forward yeah you know i think uh you're right i think one of the things that as we continue to talk about you know you mentioned the cdc and i think about there are there are actually uh websites
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
that try to duplicate the CDC in terms of how they appear. And it's a scam or it's a hoax or some false news. I mean, so people are getting pretty, pretty sophisticated in terms of hiding fake news. you know, through some quote unquote legitimate, uh, through a legitimate source.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And so you have to, you have to look at sites, even when it comes like from the CDC to see like, you know, is this too good to be true? You know, is it, is it something that, uh, uh, you know, uh, I need to research at a different place. And you need to, you know, if you can, you need to find different sources to just kind of check and recheck what you're doing.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And a lot of times people say, well, I don't have the time to do that. But you don't also have the time to be messed up either.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know what? What you just said was very interesting to me. Yeah. Because what you said was there was an assumption that what we was hearing was truth. You know, we didn't have to process it. Okay, Walter Cronkite said it, so... And that's the way it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
Stan I really like what you were saying because there was an assumption that what we were hearing back then was true too so people could if they were smart they could also influence us by what was being said and what wasn't being said we also know that after many years have gone by that some of the things that we were told was not necessarily true I agree with that.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
But no, no, no. I agree with you because there's much. But I'm just saying, though, I think that news, we didn't call it fake news because you asked that question a little bit earlier. When did we start calling it fake news? Well, we didn't call it that. We didn't call it that back then. But the reality is that we do know now that some of the things that we were told were not okay.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know, some of that stuff. Sorry. So I think it gets back to that point of being a critical thinker. That regardless of whatever it was, I mean, there was a time where we assumed a lot of stuff. We can't assume anymore.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
Yeah, you know what? When I was growing up, I remember people like Walter Cronkite. Yeah, and that's the way it was. Yeah, David and Huntley, whoever.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I don't think they were as overt. Overt, yeah. As Betty was talking, I think about this whole thing about what was the American dream? You know, I mean, we talked about, but I understood that the American dream is such the real American dream was only for a short, very, very short period of time. But we kept repeating that, well, we're looking for the American dream. We want the picket fence.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
We want, you know, the family, those kinds of things. There was an agenda for families, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of things that we have to rethink. And I just think that this one, this particular topic is a very interesting topic and it would be great to have a, for us to have more of these topics with other people to bring it in. Hey, let's just talk about fake news.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
How does it affect us? And then what can we do? Because that's part of, part of the other thing that we have to think about is that what do we do in order to address some of this stuff? You know, how do you, how do you address it? And that's the whole thing. We don't want to leave people just depressed.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
Huntley and Brinkley, right. And then we jumped up to Jerry Springer. Right, right. You know, there was, I mean, so it was like this switch where, you know, Jerry Springer was, well, he was a mayor of a major city, but, you know, he was talking about some stuff and people were like, I couldn't, I didn't really realize how many people went to his audience.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know, I think, Stan, I like what you said because I think we sometimes like to see people worse off than us. Right. I mean, it's really a human thing. Like, oh, I'm not as bad as these people are. I mean, you've been doing the same thing, but oh, I'm bad, but I'm not as bad as that one. You know what I mean? So I think that part of it really is people have found a way to...
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
motivate us to do some of the things that they want us to do and we just have to be mindful of you know as we talked before about our own personal values and not allow others to infringe upon those personal values and you know hopefully live and have a healthier and better world so I'm finished man well I tell you fake news is unfortunately I don't think is going away I think
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I mean, they just, they loved that, whatever that drama was. And I think that for some folks now, it is about the drama But again, the reality is this, is if you're involved with fake news, who really benefits from it? Does it give you a sense of power? I think a lot of people are doing it for the fact that, at least, again, these are my opinions. I'm not expressing for anybody else.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I think people enjoy the fact that they are in the middle of stuff. And that's why we get fake news.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
But I think, I think, People now are looking for quick answers. I mean, they were talking about the time people will only view an article for like 15 seconds. They want something that's going to be quick and clean. And people have their attention span is so short now that anything that even comes close to what they are thinking, again, this is my general opinion, it's okay.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
As long as it maintains a certain comfort level for me. But I don't think people like being uncomfortable with things that they don't necessarily agree with. And so it makes it so much easier to just say, well, I don't agree with that. I'm going to stay with what I do. I want to say this one story. I have met people in my work that know the truth. but won't receive it.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I know people that had a different life experience and what they're talking about, but they still will go with the fakeness versus what they really, really know. And that's always befuddled me. Yeah. Like, you know the truth. You know what's real. But yet and still, you choose to purposefully do something different. I don't know. But anyway, that's my puzzlement for today.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know, I think people want to fit in. And I think that to have an opposing view sometimes makes you seem like an outlier, somebody that's way out there. And sometimes what is true is harder for people to live with than it is to go along with. If that makes sense.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know what, Stan? I'm going to tell you the truth. I listen... You said something that really struck me very, very deeply, my friend. Because sometimes I watch the crazy news knowing that it's different than what I really, really believe for entertainment purposes. But what's
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
What's interesting to me really is, first of all, that I would waste my time watching stupid stuff that I consider stupid. Once again, this is talking about my opinion.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And it's like, I just can't believe people did that. I know. Watching people doing crazy stuff, I'm like, how do they do that? But it is for entertainment purposes. But again, I'm not happy to watch people hurt themselves. I'm not happy watching people being... Just oriented and those kind of things. But it's like, yeah, there was just so many different things that are going on in my head.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And you're right. Some of us look at that fake news for entertainment purposes.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
Yeah, I agree with you, Sam. I think that one of the, again, this is self-revelation. It really angered me a lot during the COVID period when I realized that for whatever reason, people were... not trying to understand or not trying to get the information, but they were just, they were very rigid in their thinking, like, well, this is just bad. And they were dying.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
I'm watching people say, well, I'm not going to do this. I'm like, and then they get COVID or they get sick. And then the funny part about it, Stan, was this, was that they were so rigid in their thinking that even getting through the COVID period, knowing that they had it, they still were against their vaccination.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
You know what, I think, thanks Maddie for that. Cause I think that you said, you brought up a lot of different points that really struck with me. But one of the things that I always tell people this, I said, the color of America is not black or white. The color of America is green. OK, and so there are a lot of people out there that are looking for the green.
Health Chatter
Fake News and Health
And so the more controversial you can be, the more subscriptions you can get, the more money you make. And it doesn't matter that the information that you're putting out there is either false, that it's false or unreal. It's just that I want to be in a space where people recognize that I have this phenomenal podcast. thousands of people looking at me.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Well, you know, Stan, thank you very much. And I'm very excited about this, too. And I think that Pearl made sure that we understood the legislation. She said, it is the decriminalization of paraphernalia and residue legislation that we're going to be talking about today.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
And I think that this is one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about it, because there's some new legislation that's coming on. And we are very fortunate to have some really world-class leaders here.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
And I'm going to let Dr. Rhonda Marie Chikolis, who happens to be the president of the Minnesota Pharmaceutical Board, she's going to kind of take the lead for this one because she is much more familiar with this. And I want to just thank her for being here with us as we begin to talk about this very, very important topic. Dr. Rhonda Marie, how are you?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Clarence. Yeah. How widespread is the use of drugs in our communities? I think that, you know, people have different perspective, but could you give me some stats, some data so that people understand how widespread this issue is? You can do it both in Minnesota and nationally.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Yeah. Clarence. I tell you, this has really been a, I know we're getting close to the end of our time, but this has really been a very interesting eye-opener for me. And I said this when we first started was that this was an area that I was not necessarily familiar with, but I know that it was something that was going to affect our communities.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
And so I appreciate Dr. Rhonda Marie, Eddie and Pearl and the rest of my crew for helping me to enter the conversation. And I know that we're going to be doing a community forum on December the 11th here at the Center for Changing Lives to talk more deeply about this conversation with the community because it is something that we have to address.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
So I just want to thank you all for the opportunity for me to learn, to enter into this conversation, but also to be able to encourage others to join in with us.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Thank you all again. Thank you, thank you. It helps me to enter the conversation.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Yeah, I want to know, we've been throwing around this term harm reduction. What exactly does that mean so that people can understand why we're having this conversation?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Yeah, so let me ask this question. I mean, it seemed like, and again, because this is Health Chatter, it seems like there would be a lot of opposition to some kind of legislation like this because people would say that any kind of support of this legislation would mean that you approve of drug use. Do you have that kind of a pushback?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So my question to you is this, is that understanding all these issues, what kind of communication should we be providing to the community? I mean, you know, we talked about the professional, but The community also needs to understand the issues that are going on. What kind of communications should we be sharing with the community about this issue?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Yeah, we acknowledge that this is such a draining and emotional issue. But how do you recover from caregiving burnout? Because I think that, you know, once people hit that particular barrier, just like I was talking about with the with the family before.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Once you hit that particular barrier, there's guilt, there's shame, there's all these other kinds of things that this is my mother and now I'm just like, I don't want to be bothered. You know what I mean? And it's not that you don't want to be bothered, but you don't know what to do. So how do you help people to recover from caregiver burnout?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Okay, I want to say something real quick. Give us some helpful data, statistics to help us with this issue. I mean, when you talked about, you know, 30% versus 3%, I mean, like, it shook me a little bit. You know, what other kind of data do we need to know as it relates to this whole issue about family care or data, just so that people can have some kind of an idea?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
And that was going to be my comment. I want to thank you for reminding us of the various resources that are available for you and for the community. I want to throw in one more, Volunteers of America. That's one that I work with. So thank you again, really, for this very open conversation, which I have truly appreciated.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Clarence. Well, first of all, let me thank both of you for being here. It was funny. I printed off the papers of the research that our researchers was doing. And I've never had one so thick as it was like, what? But anyway, thank you for that. I think I'm excited about this because I have been a caregiver of a caregiver. And I kind of use that terminology because it was stressful for me.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
And I can only imagine. But, Doctor, I think when you mentioned 3% of us will be involved with caregiving, I think this is a topic that we have to discuss. So I just wanted to put that out there. I mean, I was like, wow. I don't know if you heard me, but anyway. Wow. I know that this is a topic that we have to discuss. And so I just want to thank both of you for being here.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
And, you know, I know that many of our listeners will be listening to what you're saying. How could you stand?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
I think one of the challenges, I want to talk about challenges of caregiving, okay? Because I think that that's one of the things that, you know, you were talking a little bit earlier, you were talking about the various things that they have to take on.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
One of the reasons I became so involved in this was I heard a story of a family that had a mother who had dementia and she was living with her daughter. And she had a son, but she kept accusing her daughter of stealing her money. And she would tell her son that, and the son would attack the daughter.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
I mean, it just got, I mean, I'm sitting here crying basically because I'm seeing the stuff that's going on with these families. I'm like, oh my goodness. And they never realized that it was dementia. It was a disease. I don't think we talk about that. In our community, when people get older, we assume they're going to get grumpy. you know, we just assume you're just going to get grumpy. Okay.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
I do. I want to thank you for that. Cara, what does the first six months look like for you?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
You've been around for three months now, right? This is the third month. You only have three more to go. Come on. So let's talk about the six months. What does it look like for you?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
And Patty, what about for you? this, this, I know new, new people, what was the first six months look like for you?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
is our sponsor for this. It's a great community group that's involved in the community. Specifically, they started out in the African-American community and now they do just about everybody in a variety of different things. I encourage you to visit their website as well as ours. So thank you, thank you, thank you. So today, we're looking at governmental interest in mental health and well-being.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Oh, go ahead. No, I know that Hugh Mann did a survey in the community with the Harthorn neighborhood, and we did like 500 surveys. And what we found out during this period of time, because we were concerned about the COVID plus the George Floyd and the public unrest, those kinds of things.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Hello everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's episode is on government interest in mental health and well-being. So we're going to be doing a couple of shows on mental health overall. And this is the first one that really, really kicks it off. So stay tuned. We've got two great guests with us.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
And one of the things that we found out was that the community was really struggling when it comes to relationships and sleeping. which I am, you know, which these are mental health kinds of things that are impacting our community.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
And so I'm really glad to see that the, you know, to see the city of Minneapolis, as well as other organizations, governmental organizations, stepping in to try to address these issues. Because as you just said, these are major, major issues. And, you know, I will say this one thing, too, is that after, even now, I am trying to find out who my allies are.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
I mean, the people and who are my partners now? I've got to establish new relationships with people because things have changed so radically.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So I've got a couple of perspectives here that I'd really like some insights from our guests here. Okay. So in the past, in some of the shows that we've done, we've focused on a variety of different illnesses. Okay. And We kind of divide it up into the three arenas, prevention, acute treatment, and disease management. Okay, so...
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Based on where you're headed in the city of Minneapolis, and then I also want to talk about how we might compare to other places in the country. But for right now in Minneapolis, are your initiatives focused on which of those arenas? Prevention more? I would assume not acute treatment because that's not in the public health domain, but disease management could be.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So what's your perspectives on that?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
We have two great guests with us. Patty Bowler, who we've connected on a variety of different things over the years, is the Director of Policy and Community Programs at the Minneapolis Health Department. She directs and coordinates local, state, federal policy proposals in her arena, does a lot of programmatic work. endeavors. Today we'll be talking about mental health.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Yeah. So let me, so, all right. So, you know, for our listeners, cause we have listeners around the country. So, This is Minneapolis. Okay. All right. So now, you know, Patty, certainly you've got colleagues, you know, around the country. How is it, is this, are the problems that you're, that you and Cara are identifying here, is this nationwide? And that's number one.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
And then number two, are other cities, let's just say cities for right now, addressing these mental health issues in a similar way that you two are in Minneapolis, or are we really on the creative edge of things?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Yeah, Claire. Yeah, yeah. So, Patty, I appreciate that. So, you know, I come at this from a community perspective. What can the community do? I mean, obviously, the communities have identified this as an important issue. What can the community do to help to assist in this process?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
If I really wanted to, I could add all the different things that you've been involved with over the years, but that would take up the whole show. But thank you, thank you so much for being with us. Cara Kurdman has just started at the Minneapolis Health to Carbon a couple months ago, so thanks for being with us and being willing to be
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Yeah, I was going to ask Cara too.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same question for you. is that I know that you have some extensive background in the YMCA, St. Paul, you've done a lot of stuff. What's your thinking about the community and its work with you all in terms of this whole issue?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So, you know, again, for our listening audience, you know, when you deal with mental health, you can deal with, it could be acute. There could be acute mental health issues. There could be, as we all know, chronic mental health issues. It can be at the individual level for any of us. It could be on the community level. I personally think, Clarence, you could probably react to this for sure.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
When the George Floyd incident took place, I believe that had a profound impact on the community mental health. As just all of us, we were affected by this. So I think we almost have to put things in certain compartments as we deal with mental health. So just so everybody gets a little bit of an idea here, our great research crew did some interesting background on this. Listen to this.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
vocal already on the subject matter, senior public health specialist for mental well-being at the city of Minneapolis, and has done some great things in the past. She was the director of healthy living at YMCA of Greater Twin Cities for a few years, and so thank you. I mean, I'm sure the perspectives and the kickoff, I'm really saying this, the kickoff as it relates to
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
This is really kind of upsetting. from February 1st to the 13th of 2023. So that was just a couple of months ago. 28.3% of adults in Minnesota reported symptoms of anxiety or depressive disorder. Wow, okay. Compared to 32% in the United States overall. So I think both of those figures are astounding.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
In 2021, just a couple of years ago, 20.1% of adolescents, that's 12 to 17 years old, and 8.3% of adults in the United States reporting having a major depressive episode in the past year. Okay, why that happens could be based on certain things that happened. or it can be anything that's happening health-wise or medically for you, a person individually, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Then of course, Patty, you mentioned the pandemic. And then we have these true things that affect us all suddenly. And that has the suddenness of certain things has a profound impact or can have a profound impact on mental health overall. So, all right. So now going forward, think about, you know, how do we put things into certain compartments so that people understand?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So like, Patty, when you're dealing with this, the city of Minneapolis, over the years, it's like, how is it that you get the public to understand what's available to them for mental health assistance? I mean, it's just like, how do we communicate this?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Well, we probably will. Although maybe we won't have to, maybe we will have solved the problem.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Mental health really starts with the two of you. So thank you very much. So, all right, Clarence, I'll let you kick her off and let's get the show moving here.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
You know, I kind of alluded to this a little bit earlier, but the whole issue around the mental health is also driving the substance abuse issue in the city. And I know that we're working with the city health department and Suzanne Young on this issue. Talk about that connection, you know, between Patty Alcara
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
All right, all right. So a couple of weeks ago, I think Mr. Scott, who's on the podcast with us, helped us to arrange a meeting with the commissioner, the new health commissioner, Commissioner Chaplin. And out of that conversation, I had a chance to meet Cara, And we started talking about the various things that were going on.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Thank you. So let me ask this. Maybe there's a silver lining with COVID because, okay, as severe as that pandemic was, it also heightened our awareness about certain things like mental health issues was brought really to the forefront it's kind of like knocking everybody in the head a little bit.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
It's like, hello, unfortunately we have COVID, but now you get an idea of how severe some of these mental health issues are in our community. I'm hoping that that we don't have to face that again. We don't have to have something major in order to knock us in the head a little bit in order to make an impact on mental health issues. So, all right, mental health.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
All right, you guys are professionals. You've been in this arena a long time. Patty, you alluded to these school-based clinics. I'm guessing that in that arena, you have referral mechanisms in place, okay? Like whoever that student or whoever is talking to, if they have a problem, boom, we can refer you to a professional that can really help you to the next level.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Is that part of the game going forward?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
And we decided that we needed to have a more extensive conversation around this whole idea about government interest in mental health. And so I invited her to come and and she also wanted to bring on Miss Patty Bowler, who we have known, I would say, 20 years. Stan, you probably have known her longer than that, but you just said she was at the city of Minneapolis for 27 years.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So Cara, you mentioned spaghetti, and you know, and Patty, you're adding to the spaghetti. Okay, there's so many... things that are interwoven in this. All right, I'm going to ask Cara Hardwell. You've been involved in this. You've had some good history professionally with this. If you were to pull out one noodle out of that bowl of spaghetti,
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
besides one that you've already mentioned, which is you got to, we have to listen to, you know, people. All right. So let's assume that we've done that, but based on your experience, what noodle would you pull out first in order for us to really start the ball rolling here?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So, you know, it's interesting from a prevention standpoint, Patty, you're certainly aware of this too. It's like start young, right? You know, give, give, give information to young people. The problem is, you know, young people, generally speaking, have that illusion of immortality. It's not going to bother me or I don't own that issue or, or what have you.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
But the more that we're willing to work with younger people, I think you've hit on something. That might be a starting point. I mean, instead of making the bowl of spaghetti even bigger, maybe what we should do is hone in on something and get started somewhere, okay? So, all right.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I really agree. All right. So. you know, we reserve the right to, to bring you guys back. You know, Patty said a year, I'm going to make it even less than that because I'm hoping that, you know, we can really take those pieces of those strands of spaghetti and start addressing them. It's a great visual. I could, you know, it really is.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
When you think about it, it's like, Oh my God, where do we, where, where do we really start with this? So I, I really applaud your efforts. I think that, um, at some point, you can ask the question, why should government be involved? okay, in this type of thing. Well, I got a good answer for that, but that's another topic altogether. But some people would say, why is government involved in this?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
We are excited about having both of you. And I know that Patty and Kara, this is a new position. And Patty, I think you were in it probably originally. And so we're going to start with you if that's okay. Yeah. Is that all right? Okay. Yes. So the health department created this new role to focus on mental well-being. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what Kara will be doing?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Why isn't it just a person with their healthcare providers, for instance, okay? So, I mean, these are things, as far as communication is concerned, that I think are important. And hopefully, through venues like this, Health Chatter, we can start getting those conversations out there And hopefully they'll be beneficial for the communities. So, all right.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So just for our listening audience, just so you know, we've got shows coming up on mental health, just mental health. Clarence and I realized that this is a big issue, big bowl of spaghetti, and we've got a lot of things to talk about. So we're going to have three other shows. It's like, where do we stand? in mental health altogether. It's like, okay, where, what's, what's the situation overall?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
All right. Um, mental health, clinical aspects, like by population, by age, by geography, by whatever, but we'll be another show. And then we're also looking at, um, all right, if all of these things are still with us, what policy implications, what kind of help do we need in order to make these successful and we can address them appropriately?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So we're going to have three more shows and hopefully then, you know, we'll also be able to pull Cara and Patty back in the fold and we can have even more discussions on where things are going with your work. So it's been really great. Last comments, Cara, any... Any last words of wisdom?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
My dad would have said the exact same thing. Patty, last comment.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Yeah, I totally, totally agree. So for our listening audience, as you can see, we have a lot to chat about as it relates to mental issues, mental health issues at the individual level, at the family level, at the community level. And we'll keep chatting away and hopefully you will too. So for all of us, Keep in mind that we have great shows coming up.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Actually, our next show is with Senator John Marty from Minnesota. So he's going to be talking about some overall health policies, but we'll ask him about mental health as well. So stay tuned for that show. So in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
As always, I'd like to introduce our great background crew that is really second to none and helps Clarence and I do these shows on a weekly basis. So we have Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard that do our background research for us and give us some good talking points and ideas to discuss with our guests that we bring on. Matthew Campbell,
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So, you know, thank you, Patty, for that. And Carl, you and I, when we were talking with the commissioner, we had this long, extensive conversation about you and about community work. And so what we want you to do is to share with our listeners a little bit about your background. And then how do you see your expertise fitting into what Patty has described?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
is our production manager and makes sure all the logistics of getting the shows out as well as our website up and running. So thank you to Matthew. And then finally also Sheridan Nygaard helps with our research and our marketing. So these are great, great behind the scenes people.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Okay, Kira, hold on. So Sheridan, hold on a sec. So we're losing you on your mic.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
That's okay. Can we go back a little bit more about your background? Because we can cut that other part out. Just start all over again.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Well, not all over again, just 10 seconds.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
So Patty, you kind of hit the nail on the head when you said it's really hard to even define mental health. I mean, it seems like it's such a vast array of issues overall. So you've been in the public health arena a long time. Without thinking about what might be on paper somewhere, where are you coming from as far as mental health?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
What do you believe is truly the definition that can help drive programmatic initiatives going forward?
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
And like most productions, movies, TV, whatever, you have to have good people in the background to make things really work and they really help us. Of course, there's Clarence Jones. Without Clarence, we wouldn't be able to do this. Great podcast, Health Chatter. And I greatly appreciate his collegial insights and his friendship. So thank you, Clarence. And then finally, Human Partnership is our
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, I agree with you, Stan. I remember growing up, too. You know, sometimes you didn't lock your door at night. I mean, you're in a neighborhood, you got new people and those kinds of things. But our world has changed. And as a result of that, we've had to make some adjustments, too, for our own personal safety. And again, I think that there is a...
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
there's an importance in that, you know, especially when you are, when you get older, you have, you know, you're protecting your family, you're protecting the property, those kinds of things. And so, having How have you got to be safe? I think without overdoing it is important. And I do think that because of the data that we've been collecting, we have a much better idea about how to be safe.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And there are just some things that you just got to do. I mean, we can no longer drag race down the street. There's just laws. And so it's one of those things where we are adjusting and things keep adjusting. But I think safety is a primary concern for me. And so I'm going to be interested in understanding what can make me safer as a person, as a family member, and as a community member.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
But I think technology, because of the world in which we live, technology has developed to try to address some of those issues. I know whenever you approach my house, my little ring buzzes me. I don't know where I'm at. It just buzzes me and says, hey, somebody's at your front door. And it's one of those kinds of things that as a result of the condition
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
around us, it has caused us to become more sensitive. I guess that's the word. When you and I were young and Barry were younger, all of us were younger, we didn't think about that stuff because it wasn't as noticeable and as discussed as much as it is today. But every time you turn on the... Every time you watch news, whatever, there's always some concern about safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
So you do get kind of sensitized but there are just things that you have to do that we didn't used to have to do as much.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah. I was going to ask a question, though. I think that, you know, for those who are less seasoned, and you know who I'm talking to, I'm talking about, how do you feel about all these conversations around safety? I mean, I know that that's a different kind of world. for most of you. But what are your thoughts about this issue around safety and health? Health and safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
I didn't. I don't think I did. I don't think I was wise enough. I think I never stuck a fork in anything either. It was just something that people just say, don't do this. I think because of the
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
you know, the, the fear of not having your child hurt for something that you could do so simply just the risk of it, or, you know, you had an inquisitive child, you know, you know, you want to make sure that you had as much protection as you could.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
So I remember that, but I do, but I do know now that, that, that parents are super sensitive, you know, around their children, making sure that they, you know, are protected, you know,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
I really like that. I really like what you're saying, Barry, because I was thinking about for me, you know, you have stories of kids as early as 12 years old shooting their brother or, you know, and even younger shooting another relative, you know, because, you know, we as adults were not conscientious of the fact that that could happen.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And we're thinking about our safety or our perceived safety. And we don't realize that we are also responsible to also sometimes have to think for our kids. Because what they see as funny and games and things like that and TV could wind up creating a family tragedy that you'll be regretting for the rest of your life.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, Stan, because my parents, when we were younger, we weren't allowed to have like any violent video games. You know, those like the little toy, those little toy green soldiers. My parents used to cut the guns off of those like little
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
plastic toys um which was like great in the house but you know then when my brother like went to his friend's houses he would still play like call of duty and everything so i think it's also hard because you know you can maintain those standards like within the home but then what happens when the kids go outside of the home and then are exposed to those things but that's like
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
something I'm constantly thinking about is like within my household, there was definitely a culture of like severe anti-violence, anti-gun, like no Nerf guns, no water guns. It was just, I think about that all the time.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
I don't think I could have done it any better, Stan. I think that you hit the... The nail on the head. No, the head of the nail. Anyway, you know what I mean. Yeah. I think your comments were great. But, you know, I do think, you know, getting back to the bicycle, I mean, now we have bicycle lanes. Yeah. Which is a major, major difference in our lives. So, yeah. I think this is a great topic.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah, I would say, well, one thing that Barry just said kind of made me think of our fake news episode from a few weeks ago is finding a balance between what kind of safety measures you can take that are within your control with kind of just like the crippling anxiety of knowing that you can't
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
24-7 just be preoccupied with all of the safety things that you can't control, which is kind of what we said about like, you know, in our fake news episode, like finding a balance between engaging with fake news and then also living your life and not being crippled by the anxiety. So that was something that
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Barry just said, which resonated with me, in that you can be concerned about your safety and you should take all the measures you can to be as safe as you can in all of your surroundings. But, you know, you're going to cripple yourself if that's all you're thinking about 24-7.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And then the other thing I just wanted to add is to encourage people to surround yourself with friends and family members and communities that also value their own safety and your safety. Because I think, you know, you can't take your safety for granted. And, you know, it's important to make sure you're surrounded by people who value that as well.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, it's kind of interesting. 1970 was really when the first time I became aware of OSHA. And I remember during that time, there was a lot of, as you just said, there's a lot of concern about coal mines. And I remember, what's that, black lung or something, coal? Yeah. I remember a lot of conversations about that. But I also remember asbestos.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, asbestos came up, you know, people were, you know, using that product, but they did not realize how much it was scarring their lungs. And so a lot of times when there was construction or deconstruction of a building, there was always some concern about, you know, why are you wearing your mask and things like that.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And truth of the matter is that those were not industries that I was involved in, but there was such a dramatic impact in terms of the, the work that was being done and the reduction of, of health concerns that, you know, like I said, I was not involved in it, like, you know, really intensive, but I understood the importance of having a governmental agency like this.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Stan, let me say this. You know, as we're talking about this, this is also a public health issue. You know, I think that the work that's being done here also impacts our public health. And so sometimes we don't see the interconnection, you know, or we think it's not connected. But this impacts our public health as well.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
I will answer that one if I can remember it. But I want to go back to the previous point. I did not think about it until now. I, in my own personal life, have known people who have lost their fingers. I've known young people that have lost their lives by falling out of off banisters, you know, you sit on the third floor. And so I think that and all of these things happened a long time ago.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
But I think we don't realize the importance of of what safety is and having, again, this government government. government agency in place, how it is meant. But if you're older, more seasoned, you probably know somebody that has probably been caught in some of those things. But in terms of safety, when do we start thinking about it? Well, I'm thinking about it right now because I'm more seasoned.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And so for me, there are certain places where there are safety things, safety rules in place because there is a certain season population that might be utilizing the organization. So OSHA has some standards that are designed to keep us safe as well. So that's what I think about. You know, the safety when we take a look at rugs and those kinds of things.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
That's when I and I didn't I didn't think about OSHA at that point, but that's where we're at. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
I love this thread of conversation. I do too. Thank you, Barry. Barry, thank you. And Miguel, thank you. Because as you know, I started off my conversation, my initial remark by saying, I'm not pointing fingers. It's very important not to point fingers in this particular conversation.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
But I do hear this thing about cultural competency and people saying, well, you know, one group of people can work well with their group of people and those kinds of things. But the reality is that we don't necessarily have those medical people in place like that. So what are we looking for? We're looking for accurate and appropriate information. We're looking for authenticity.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
And so many times people will say, well, you would work better with a doctor that looks like you. That may or may not be true. What we're looking for in this particular case in order to address health disparities is an honest conversation. An authentic doctor, somebody that comes in and says, look, I don't understand those things, but I do know that I, I'm going to show you that I care for you.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
And I think that that's one of the places where we, we miss this is that it, by, by saying that, well, you would be better served by someone from your own group. It allows you not to serve most appropriately.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
So I just, so I, that's why I say this is a conversation, you know, that we have to have because some people you're not comfortable with serving certain kinds of people, but I think you can say that. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Good morning, everybody. I am excited to have Miguel here to talk about this topic because I think it is one of the, as Stan said, this is one of the most interesting topics to have in this country, but also especially in Minnesota. So I'm going to leave it there and let Stan start talking, but I have some really probing questions to ask in your opinions.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
And this is health chatter, so we are not necessarily politically correct. We just want to talk, okay? All right, Stan, I'm turning it back to you.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
I tell you what, I know we're coming to the end of our show. Miguel and Barry and everyone, I thank you for this great conversation. It was very authentic. I like that. And Miguel, I'm going to take away a couple of your sayings, like building the house from the foundation versus a roof. I mean, it's like, that's good stuff. So thank you very much. And we definitely appreciate it.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
I definitely appreciate the authentic engagement. That, for me, is how we're going to move the needle around healthcare. We don't have to be afraid, you know, of saying what we really feel, you know, authentically and respectfully. And that, I think, is how we make it. So thank you for being on the show.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
I want to ask this question. America is often touted as the leading country in a lot of different kinds of things. I think that we know that that's not necessarily true in a lot of areas. Minnesota is often touted as one of the healthiest states in the Union. But yet, when it comes to health disparities, it isn't. And What do you think is going on?
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
I mean, how can we be healthy for one group of people, but not healthy for the rest of the community? What do you think is happening?
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
One of the things I want to say is that in this particular topic, I don't point fingers at just one group of people. I think that there's a lot of growth for a lot of different people, whether it's in providing access or whether it's providing information. about this topic.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
And so I wanna say that upfront is that, sometimes in this particular topic, people like to say, well, it's their fault or our fault or whatever else, but this is a conversation that I think that we have to be really honest about, that there are some real gaps around health disparities that we as a community have to address that will benefit us by addressing them.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
So that was just my comment, because I can get very pointed at times. But I'm not blaming folk. I'm just saying, hey, we have some realities that we have to talk about. So, Sam, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Thank you, Stan. And I am honored to introduce, to sound present to others, Dr. Robert Teresky, who is a professor in the Department of Medical Chemistry at the University of Minnesota. He served as the director of the Masonic Cancer Center Analytical Biochemistry Department. He's also received his PhD in nutrition and food science at MIT. He has worked around the world.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
But even more importantly, he has done a project with me. in terms of the topic that we're gonna talk about tonight, which is around prostate cancer. And I want to just tell our listeners, thank you for listening to us. And one of the things about Health Chatter, and I always like to frame this like this, is that we enter into a lot of different kinds of conversations.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
So today it's gonna be a grown folks conversation, which is kind of a cultural thing. So we're gonna be talking about some really interesting things. We're gonna talk about some racial differences And we're going to talk about some perceptions when it comes to this issue around prostate cancer.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Do we lose power? They knew that there was, yeah, did I stop off a little bit? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, yeah. So the people in our community was very, very excited about the topic. In fact, they couldn't wait hardly to get into the barbershop. Now, we provide an incentive for that, but more than that, we just told them this is more than about the incentive.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
One of the things that I will share with you is that out of all of the diseases that I struggle with, talking about, probably the number one disease is one or two is going to be around prostate cancer. And one of the reasons for that is that it has been such a kind of a taboo subject within my own community. It's been a kind of a taboo subject in terms of men.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
This is about finding out why and how we are going to address this issue around prostate cancer. And if this is one of the ways in which we have to do it, Then, you know, we want you to be willing to do that, you know, from a very authentic perspective. And so that was that was that was a response. They like, OK, let's do this. In fact, they would get their friends.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Hey, look, man, let's let's do this. They'd have stories. They would talk. They would talk about it. The barber, the barber had was trying to figure out how then do I talk to my other customers when we don't have the we don't have the study going on? How do I talk to my other customers about this? How do I identify what could be done? And what are some of the ways in which to identify this?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
But I want to get back to Dr. Robert. I think one of the thing, and this is totally candid conversation. One of the things that really, really kind of really threw me off and bedazzled, befuddled me was this PSA stuff. PSA is, you know, the way that I was understanding it was not always the most, the clearest sign of what's really going on inside of a person's body.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And I was so emotionally attached to the topic of prostate cancer. I was figuring like, you know, is there another, is there something else that's more effective? We didn't want the digital exam, you know, And then you're going to tell me about PSA. And I'm like, so what in the world do I do?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Which is one of the reasons why we were excited about this new, about the study with you, was that we struggle with. Did I know?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Yeah. I'm sorry. So the question for me was, you know, in our community, we're still struggling with this issue. And the question is, what is it that we should be doing around prostate cancer?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And we're going to get into that when it comes to this topic today. Dr. Robert and I have recently done a study around prostate cancer and African-American men. And what was so intriguing to me about our conversation was the fact that he talked about two things that really impact me. One was food. One was prostate cancer. But this topic was barbecue and prostate cancer.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Absolutely. Yeah. I'm really excited, Dr. Robert. I want to thank you for actually being on our show today. And I know that this is a conversation that is very complex, but it's also for a lot of people very emotional.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And I think that I was trying to convey that in terms of some of the conversations that I was having that as important as this issue is, we have to continue to find ways to get people to enter the conversation. And part of the work that you're doing does that. I mean, the idea of working specifically around a topic of interest to me really excited me about working with you.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And then one thing about me, one I really, really love and one I really, really hate to talk about. And so there was that conflict that we had in terms of talking about this topic. And so it was a very wonderful place to enter into. But it's also one in which I think is very important. So I'm really glad that he has spent the time, has given us the time to come in and talk to Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
But I also understand the bigger ramification of what we're trying to do. And so I just want to personally thank you for the work that you've done. And I know that we're going to be disseminating this information back to the community. One is when just kind of a midterm report, whatever. And then when the other report comes out, we're going to do that.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
But that's part of what, you know, Stan, your question is that we're going to disseminate this information. And we told the participants in this study that we were going to disseminate it. So as complicated as it could be for some, it's important that at least we enter the dialogue. And so, again, I just want to say thank you, Dr. Robert, for your time.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. So Dr. Robert, let's first, let's start off, let's talk about, we're talking about prostate cancer. Let's first talk about and explain what is a prostate?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And one of the things that, you know, as I was reading this topic, is that prostate is probably the second most common cancer?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Yes. I want to let our listeners know that I do love Dr. Robert. And Dr. Robert is definitely a clinician. And so when we got together to talk about this issue, he was really able to enter into the conversation and to work with the community in a way that really engaged them. And I think that the work that we're going to talk about now, which is the
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
the work around the African-American community and prostate cancer. I said, we're going to talk about some racial things. There's some racial differences when it comes to prostate cancer. The thing that I was hearing was that Asian Americans, Asians probably are the lowest when it comes to prostate cancer and African-Americans are probably the highest.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And so I know from my community perspective that if you want to get a guy to go to the doctor, a black guy to go to the doctor, tell him about prostate cancer. That's the one thing that seems to just drive them to help them to get a medical exam.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And so the thing that I wanted to do was to say that, Shannon, I think you kind of alluded to this a little bit earlier, was the fact that for many men, this is really a very, very tough topic because of the perception about getting a test for prostate cancer. And I think in my community, guys don't want to talk about it because it's a digital exam.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Many times that's just not, you know, that's not something that people want to want to talk about or have done to them. And so, uh, Dr. Teresky, I would like you to just talk about the project that you're doing, uh, and talk about some of the, uh, some of the reasons why you did it.
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So, Brandon, let me ask you this question. So when you are in a relationship that's not disposable... Yep. Okay. How do you maximize your relationship with a narcissist?
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So let me ask this question, Brandon. How do you protect yourself from a narcissist? And you're absolutely correct. I've been looking on YouTube. I've been seeing all these people talking about this topic. And I've been examining my own personal life, trying to look back and say, well, is there something about me as well or people that I've come in contact with? How do you protect yourself?
Health Chatter
Narcissism
I know there's this thing called gray rocking and all those kinds of things. But we wanted to bring you on so that you could just really tell us what the real deal was. OK, so I think protect yourself.
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So Brandon, can you just, you know, this is Health Chatter, so we just chat, okay? So this is politically. Can you share a story where you were surprised by someone with narcissistic behavior?
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So Brandon, I think one of the things that was interesting about having you as a guest was the fact that I had been thinking about narcissism and then I started seeing you writing articles about narcissism. And as a community person, I was like, we need to talk about this because I had never really heard anybody from the community talk about it like this.
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So I want to ask you, what is it that we as a community should know about this issue? No, what is it that we as a community should know? I'll leave it like that.
Health Chatter
Narcissism
I have truly, truly enjoyed this conversation and I look forward to having more with you when we're out in the community and we will definitely love to bring you back and talk some more.
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So, Brandon, let me ask you this question. How does narcissism develop? I mean, do you just, you know, is it just something that's innate that you just do, or are there social factors that causes it? You know, one of the things I wanted to share was that I have seen so many people walking down the street taking photographs of themselves on every step that they make. Like, what is this?
Health Chatter
Narcissism
I'm like, you know, what is that? I mean, you didn't change that much. Maybe, you know, you moved your head or something. But what is it? How does it develop?
Health Chatter
Narcissism
So Brandon, let's talk about those exes, okay? Because I think what's important to know is how are they experiencing this? What are they going through? And then how do they take care of themselves in this process? Because a lot of people are, as you just said, who are not narcissistic, but they're the exes or the others in those relationships.
Health Chatter
Narcissism
They're starting to have these real strong feelings about this person. So what is it that we need to do when we are not sure, we're not doing a diagnosis, but we're like saying like, you know, there's something amiss here.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Yeah, no, I'm really learning a lot, again, from the work that you're doing. But how long does hospice care last?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
I mean, you know, you mentioned that, you know, Medicare, Medicaid. I mean, is there a certain period where people are in that category called hospice care?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So, Barry, let me ask this question. You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking about the individual that's getting the hospice care. What about the families or the caregivers around them? I mean, what kind of information is being provided for them or, you know, so they can deal with it? Yeah, can deal with it. I mean, is there a gold standard?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Is there requirements from the organizations that, you know, that there are certain things that they should be providing to the families? Because that's tough for everybody.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Yeah, so Mary, I think you mentioned that the medium stay in a hospital is like two weeks.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
My question to you is this, and you talked about the fact that sometimes people come in at the later stages of their disease. Do you think people do not utilize hospice because of the cost?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Well, do they know that? I mean, that's the question. Do they know that? I mean, because a lot of times- Because people are unaware. That's why I think this program is going to be so helpful. Because they're unaware of exactly what does that mean. A lot of times there's not that information or access to people that can accurately describe what's going on. Because people will say, well, it's over.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So people have their own emotional conversation about this. So I'm just asking, you know, Two weeks, I mean, that sounds like a family has gone through a lot. Yes. And I'm thinking, like, is it cost? Is it just an emotional thing? I don't know. I'm just asking that question. I just wanted to answer.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Yeah. Okay, so families are saying, yeah, I wish I would have got them in there earlier, but do they say why they didn't get them in there earlier? Because I think that for me is, I wish I would have done that. There has to be some kind of barrier.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
And the only reason why I'm asking that question is this, is that, you know, I think this is, I'm more seasoned now, so this is much more of a relevant topic for me as well. But I think that there's something that people are not getting.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Yeah, let me say, because I love this conversation. This is why this is called Health Chatter, okay? Yeah, we're all chattering away. Yeah, we're chatting now. Okay. Because I think that part of what you said, I mean, the 500% overestimation, that's big. I mean, is it that the doctors are overestimating their patients? Their work, I mean, what they can do. I mean, you know what I'm saying?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
I mean, as a doctor, you want to be able to say like, hey, you know, I had a patient come in and we were able to help them to get to this level. We helped them to get healed. That's really, I love that you entered this conversation. But I think that that's something that, you know, I'm going to ponder about.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
I mean, it's a struggle for everybody. I mean, as you just said, Sam talked about the fact is that he or she wants the person to live. The family has dynamics. The patient has dynamics. And so when you get to this point of talking about hospice and hospice care or end of life kind of conversations, you have to be exposed to
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
to the variables and not have a fixed mindset on this is how it's going to be. And that's why I, that's why I pushed.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Let me interject real quickly here again, okay? I'm in a probing mode here. I'm in a probing mode here, okay? When you talk about being culturally competent, I mean, you know, I think that question should be asked to everybody. Because just because a person looks like you does not mean that they think the same way that you do. Exactly.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
To think that it's only with those people, you know, really, really throws the thing off. We're human beings. So even though we look alike, it does not mean that we have the same life experiences, emotional experiences. So I think that's a great question to ask everybody.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
I love that. I love that what you just said, because I think that that's that's the that's the issue that happens so many times with family. There's so many unresolved issues at the end of life. You know, you know, what didn't I do? What didn't I say? You know, you know, I always say I want to when I die, I don't want to have to say I wish I would have.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
If you got two weeks, if you got, you know, if you knew you had two weeks, you could get a lot of things resolved. So I appreciate this conversation. I know that we're coming to the end of our show, but I really appreciate. I mean, because you really seriously, this has been a great show. In fact, I'm thinking about who do I send this show to specifically in my life.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
And I'm hoping that our team, our research team will put together those three, actually those two sets of terms that you talked about, because I think that would be very important for people. to really, really understand when doctors are talking to them or when they are presented with these opportunities, what they're really looking at.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
I guess what they're really, really looking at versus this whole idea about, I think, no, we need to know that we're on the same page as you talked about. So thank you, Gary, for my perspective.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Yeah. Very. Thank you for that. I mean, that was so informative. In fact, as I was sitting here listening, I said, we got to put that on our website. We got to actually write that out so that people know that was very, very informative for me. But I think the thing that I want to say, I want to start off by by just saying this. When somebody tells me hospice, I automatically think like it's over.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
You know, and, you know, you know, you said there's like six months life expectancy and things like that. Could you talk a little bit more about that? I mean, addressing that kind of emotional. I mean, when you hear that word, it's like, oh, man, this is this is it. You know, I mean, so it really throws some people off. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
You know, in terms of their really understanding what exactly what's going on.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And then there is, they want the government in the examining room with me with my doctor. You know, it's that kind of thing. And our system is so complicated. And I don't know how, is there a way for us to sort of at least put the buckets out there so that people have a better understanding? Because clearly politics influences our health in so many ways.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And everybody always thinks with doctors and stuff, But as we know from our research, it's housing, right? Just housing availability. It's nutrition availability. It's education. It's where you put the incinerator, right, in which neighborhood.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And we know what happens politically in which neighborhoods, oftentimes things that impact people who typically don't have much voice or influence or power. And how do you, you know, how do you break, you know, is there a way for us to actually have a conversation that breaks it down?
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And also, I always think of, you know, what can I, as a citizen of Minneapolis, is there something that I can get engaged with to move things forward? And, you know, people oftentimes focus on particular issues that impact And there are so many to deal with that does that get diluted so that the end result is that we always have the status quo or things.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
It's so hard to kind of move things forward. And I'll kind of defer to, you know, some of that because you've had more experience certainly in the community sectors and public health sectors than I have. Let me ask this.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
It's not necessarily a direct way But indirectly, I mean, just looking at what has happened in Minnesota from the 50 years that I was, you know, kind of becoming a doctor and in practice, you've basically, what have we seen? We've seen the disappearance. I mean, when I started, it was mostly little practices. You know, physicians and communities and what has happened over time, again, because of
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
the system that we have, which is more private oriented, we've just had more and more consolidation. And the role that government plays with the private insurance industry and the systems that have developed is just whether there's sort of monopoly issues or trade issues or
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
anti-competitiveness, but in healthcare, it doesn't, it seems like right now in either the Twin Cities or in Minnesota, there's literally just a handful of systems that are probably, now they may be nonprofit companies, okay, but there's a handful of systems that control access to, again, I didn't do the research, but it's a tremendous amount on a percentage-wise of the care that's provided.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
They're the ones that dictate the access, but does government? What's been happening? We've seen, I think in some ways, it's more of an issue in rural communities where multiple hospitals close and the access becomes harder and harder.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
in inner cities and in cities, government does tend to take more of a role with that because there have been the advent of community clinics and stuff that are more government funded, you know, more government funded than anything else. But that, you know, sort of locks in with, you know, the ability to have Medicaid as a payer, the state as a payer and things like that. So,
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
you know, again, government doesn't control where people set up shop, where a health plan sets up shop, unlike, well, I'm actually, I mean, I'll profess my ignorance, because I don't know exactly, for example, how the Canadian national health system, how they decide where to have hospitals, clinics, doctor's offices. So I'll kind of
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
turn to you guys, maybe you have a sense of how that access to care is determined. So let me ask this question.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
Yeah, no, I think it's gotten extremely more complicated. And part of that, I mean, all these things change within Within health care, there's been lots of progress. And so it kind of the scaffold, you know, the building keeps getting higher and it gets more and more complicated. So the answer is yes. What we haven't, you know, again, this is my perspective.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
This is not, you know, my physician hat, but just as a citizen hat, is that what we've seen is extreme polarization within the political world. And as a result of that, and this is the thing that upsets me the most, is sort of that polarization then would weaponize things in health. And I'll just use the whole vaccine piece when COVID came out.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And part of the thing that's more upsetting to me is understanding that in science and research, you come up with a theory or a hypothesis and you test it out. And most of the time, the things that we do for preventive health, we have to test it out and see if it works. And there are some things that we're right about, and there are other things that we're wrong.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And we expect that that's going to evolve over time. And what I've seen in politics is sort of trying to make it so simple for everybody by thinking that everything that you do is going to be that way forever. And we know that things evolve and change all the time. And that's not a weakness of the system.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
That's actually a strength of the system because we're continually looking for a better way to do things. And it's not only within our communities, it's more on a a global basis. I mean, it's looking out that from a health perspective, what things have worked in other places.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
That's the, that's the, you know, the, the piece to me is how, you know, something that should be for the benefit of, our entire population. And I'll just say, if you're a citizen of Minnesota, you're entitled to this. And when things get weaponized, it tends to divide people more and then you lose the ability to have a civil conversation about things and to reach agreement.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
It's just like people get on each side and they're just fighting each other instead of tackling you know, the issues, because I think at our core, you know, don't we care about the good of our communities?
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
I would think that we do, but how do we break through all that posturing and the polarization that, like I say, if I... If I could come up with the secret sauce, or if you can, that would be a good thing.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
Yeah. So I guess where I would... My big takeaway on this is really more an increased awareness level that... to try and be a bit more reflective in understanding that the connections between politics and health are complicated and they're ubiquitous. It impacts so many different... It's all part of this very complex web and you can't divorce...
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
uh, politics from, from health and, and just this, this appreciation, um, of, of maybe taking an extra, you know, half minute to be thinking about, uh, how the things that, that we do politically, um, how they have an impact on our health so that that's the one thing. And then, then the other piece is to, uh, uh,
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
try and come up with a way to be having, you know, conversations about this with your friends and neighbors. I mean, I think that's, you know, when, you know, we, we do have more in common, you know, with our neighbors than we think, but part of not, when you don't have the conversation, you know, you don't, you don't know.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
So it's awareness and being open to conversation and, and other points of view and find where the, where the common bond is. And then hopefully it'll become a movement and we'll make some positive changes for all of us. That's all. Final thoughts.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
Yeah. And just to build on that, for me, you have politics. And I'd like to take the first few letters of politics, at least from the policy perspective. but it happens at the federal level, which we were talking about, but it very much is impacted at the state level. Okay. And it's also impacted at the local level.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And so I'm just trying to think, you know, for any normal person, how do you possibly get your head around where that goes? Because, you know, from a political system perspective, you have both policy development and OK, which which actually like in the Johnson administration created Medicare and Medicaid. That was that was a biggie.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And then you have the legislative part of things that control the purse strings. Right. Right. And then the other part that, you know, Clarence, that that you were saying and also Stan, that the purse strings part also relates to our systems. of private insurance.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And so there's this inequality across insurance companies, you know, so that, you know, one plan might have a very robust mental health coverage. Another plan, not, you know, not so much. And so how, you know, how does the average person or does the average citizen start to engage in that to realize the impact it has.
Health Chatter
Health and Politics
And so, you know, Stan, I heard your story too, where people are saying, you know, I don't want government to mess with my healthcare and don't you dare touch my Medicare. Right, right. It's just like- And that's, again, the balance there between, so what do people mean? And I think to me, it's more, there's the insurance part of it.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Go ahead, Clarence. No, I was very interested in terms of the ranking because mental health is one of those issues that we talk a lot about in the community. And the unfortunate thing is that it's that many people, when they talk about it, they're not sure what to do. or they talk about access and things like that.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And so this kind of conversation I think is very, very important for us to understand about health policies and how and why we should be involved in them. I mean, if we're in this kind of situation, we need to be more involved. And from a community perspective, we need to be more involved in it.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And I was going to say the same thing too, before you answer it, Mike. is that I think that you're right. While those rankings are high or those rankings are what they are, I think in communities, especially other communities, it's a lot worse. And that's why this conversation is so important because it is a consistent conversation that comes up, but it's like, how do we enter the conversation?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
How do we answer the question? What can we do? And I believe that this kind of conversation helps us to to rethink or to, you know, hopefully to incite people to be more concerned about the public policies and to work towards getting better access for these services.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I appreciate that. That's kind of my next question, which is, I don't have a magic wand, but I do want your opinion about this. What did COVID uncover about mental health conditions in this country?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And that was kind of like my follow-up question too, is that there has to have been some learning that will be applied to public policies around mental health? I mean, you just talked about the telehealth and the importance of that. And I don't understand if it was working, why would they take it away? Or why would they penalize people for utilizing something that we know worked?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Yeah. Let me ask this question really quickly and we'll get back to your question, Stan. When I think about mental health, I think I have a very global perspective of what that looks like. Okay, I think I have this broader worldview is that, you know, it's somebody that truly acts out with behaviors that are noticeable.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
But I want to ask the question about what are the other conditions that people don't identify as mental health issues that we should be making people aware of from a community perspective? Am I making sense?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
So how do we help people? How do we help people identify these issues? Because I think that, you know, for some some some behavior people just say, well, it's just normal. You know, I mean, you talk about drinking, you know, well, you know, everybody drinks, you know what I mean? So how do we, as a community member, I'm asking this question as a community member, okay?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
You know, I think that's the way to start. Yeah. As you were talking about that, I thought I think about how we greet each other. How are you doing?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I think though, you know, uh, Dr. Trangle said this, is that I think that people are afraid of being intrusive, you know, getting into their, I always talk about there's a difference between business and business. You know, people don't want to get into your business, you know what I'm saying? And so they're very, very surfacy in terms of that.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And I think that what you're saying, using even finding the language to ask the question, is gonna be very, very important. And then to help people understand that, to go deeper with the, how are you doing? And then how are you really, really doing? That's what I wanted you to say. How are you really, really doing? It's something that we need to talk about.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And I know that this is back to our work about policies, implications and stuff like that. But I think the more that people are aware of what is really going on, the better off we can be as a nation. And I think that that's, and as a community.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I want to tell this story. You told your story. I remember a news reporter, this had to be 20, 30 years ago, who decided he was going to be on the streets for a week. And he was on the street for a week as a homeless person. That's what he was going to do as a homeless person.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
He said it only took him maybe a day and a half before he felt totally out of it because people wouldn't look him in the eye. They wouldn't say anything to him. And that made me cry. Because I think about the humanness of people, but it also maybe made a commitment to look people in the eye.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I mean, even the homeless people or people that I'm not necessarily appreciative of their behavior, I still will look them in the eye and say something to them because I think it's important to recognize, as Dr. Trangle, you said, the humanness of them, which is something I think that we forget because we all need to feel like we belong. That's my story.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Yeah, you know, that's actually my question here is, how is mental health impact measured? Because I think that part of... What concerns me, I think you use the term, it's understated. I mean, you talk about funding and things like that. How do they measure that?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Because as a person, as a community member, I see a lot of issues that I'm not quite sure that we are really gathering what's really going on. So how is mental health issues impact measured?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Yeah, yeah. So I want to do a follow-up question really quick, though. So what does this policy confusion have to do with the impact on health? I mean, you know.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Yeah, I was, yeah, I think that, thank you for those rankings.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Yeah. Yeah. I want to ask you this question. I want to go back and talk about this. Can you identify some age-friendly places and spaces? And what is it that we should be learning from them?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Dr. Godler, I want to ask you this question. What does the research say about self-care during this process without feeling guilty?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
I was thinking about this. I want to live longer. How do I how do I do that? I mean, you know, I mean, you've studied a lot about, you know, Alzheimer's and things like that. I'm trying. You know, I know that that forgetting stuff is a normal part of getting older and things like that.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
But, you know, are there some things that we could be doing that would, you know, some low hanging fruits again that we could be doing to to be better, have a better way of life?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Exactly. Does that mean that I have to forage or what? What does that mean?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Okay. I'll take your word for it. I won't try that one. I'll stick with it. I will say this about the whole lifestyle thing.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
That's why I asked the question about guilt. That's why I asked the question about guilt. Is that, I mean, you know, if somebody's up in there for eight hours a day, I mean, like, Well, clearly, I mean, that's what I mean. I know you love people. You know, you love people. But, you know, that that's, you know, if you talk to them, they don't know what you're saying.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
I mean, it's like, what's what's going on? I'm not trying to be funny. I'm just trying to I'm just saying these are the things that I have struggled with. I want to say one other thing, too, is that I have been a caregiver of a caregiver and that's hard work.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
So I think that, you know, for people to understand why it's so important to do self-care during this process, because this is a lot of work that you want to do, but you also have to take care of yourself at the same time.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Yeah, thank you. Joe, I appreciate that conversation. What it does for me, you use the term complexity. This whole issue is so complex, especially when it comes to family. And I think that part of and I'm just going to share something with you. That's what health care is about.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
OK, so I told my wife, if I ever get to a point in my life where I have Alzheimer's or dementia and she has to place me into a home to be OK with that, you know, and she doesn't have to worry about coming to visit me every day. You know, I'm just saying, just make sure that I'm clean and that I'm not being, you know, that I'm being taken care of.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
But I think it's one of those kinds of things where it is a issue, as you're saying, where families need to talk about this before it happens. And so that's all I want to say is that it just brought up that emotional piece for me where I've already decided, like, you don't have to visit me every day. Just make sure I'm okay.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Yeah, no, no. I was listening as we were talking about this topic, long-term care, longevity, loneliness, aging. What is the process we should be thinking about? with this as we become older. I'm thinking that I'm more seasoned, and there has to be some kind of process that you have discovered in your research that we should be considering or thinking about as we become older.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Our bodies are changing. You know, everything is different now. What should we be looking at?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
To live better. To live better. Yeah, because, you know, we could have early onset dementia. I mean, you know, but there's got to be something that we need to be thinking about, you know, with some of these scenarios.