Listen along as the Health Chatter team dives into the effects of politics on health.Join the conversation at healthchatterpodcast.comBrought to you in support of Hue-MAN, who is Creating Healthy Communities through Innovative Partnerships.More about their work can be found at http://huemanpartnership.org/
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. We're all hoping that you're having a great summer and staying cool. There's a lot of heat going on around the country. So we're hoping that everybody is staying safe. We've got a great show today, just with three of us from the Health Chatter team. And we're going to be talking about politics and its effects on health. And I assume
that we probably could do more than one show on this. But anyway, we'll get to that in a sec. We have a great team. I like to recognize them. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, Oh, wonderful, wonderful crew. They do our research, our marketing, and also our recording of our shows to get out to you, the listening audience.
Also, I've got a great colleague, Clarence Jones. He and I do these shows together. It's been really fun and engaging. And I don't know about you, Clarence, but I've learned a lot. as we close in on our 100th show pretty quick. It's been really, really fun. So thank you to you and the crew. Thank you to Human Partnership, who sponsors our Health Chatter podcast.
Great community health organization. I recommend that you check them out at humanpartnership.org. And also check us out at the Health Chatter website. You can check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. And leave some of your insights and your reviews. And also if you have questions, you can put them on our website and we'll get back to you. So thanks to all of you.
So today, Clarence, you and I are going to talk about the politics of health. around health. And, you know, I can, I can start this out. You know, I, I work for the state of Minnesota and, um, you know, there's things that happen at the state level. There's things that happen at the local county levels. There's obviously things that happen at the, um, at the federal level.
And, um, as I think about it, um, I recognized, and as I reflect on it, I recognize that people in general, I don't think are really aware of what happens at each of those different levels of government. You know, the politics of it we'll get to in a second.
But certainly, you know, all right, if you were going to just talk to somebody on the street and ask them, do you know what your state health department does? Or do you know what your local health department does? Do you know what your federal government does? I don't think people have a clue. What do you think about that?
You know, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. I think that when I... speak to people and i talk about some of these things there is not a connection made between politics and health it is it's just there uh i remember this is so funny i remember when i used to not like uh certain certain governmental bodies
uh because you know something happened and i didn't really understand how politics worked in it and you have to realize that that in this particular arena there are a variety of other factors and so uh for me when i go out to the community i don't think a lot of people make the connection yeah between health politics you know what can you do how can you be involved all those kinds of things so i'm in total agreement with you there is a political
factor that we have to make people more aware of yeah yeah and you know i you know um aaron put together some background research i found this really kind of interesting research has suggested that politics we'll talk about politics now may be a significant contributor not only to individual stress but also the physical manifestations of poor mental health
as well as the fracturing of critical social networks, which are at the heart of our mental well-being. And so it's like it says here, the results of the survey suggest that political stress may be more common than many of us expect. And, you know, I think in many ways, this came to the forefront during the COVID pandemic.
pandemic, where maybe from a government perspective, political perspective, health is kind of invisible. Until all of a sudden something comes up. And then it's like, oh, my God.
Hi, Barry.
Sorry for the technical difficulties. Don't worry about it. What I thought we could do is maybe let's talk a little bit about some federal agencies. And there are a lot of them. But like, for instance, there's a Centers for Disease Control. There's the National Institute of Drug Abuse. There's the National Institute of Health. There's the National Institute of Mental Health.
All these different manifestations. And then kind of linked with all of it is the Surgeon General of the United States, who's kind of like a... a figurehead, a spokesperson on some of these issues. But again, if you were to ask most people, do you know what the National Institute of Drug Abuse does, NIDA? Yeah. You know what happens to the National Institutes of Health?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we throw those initials around a lot. I think so, too. And many people don't understand exactly how these particular governmental agencies impact their health or what they do to affect their health. And I think for many people, it's too much to think about. You know, and I mean, and I say that, I say that people don't want to think about it.
But yet at the same time, it's really, really important. As you were talking before about COVID and the mental health piece about it. There's a lot of things that are happening. I know that we're going to have a conversation about fake news and all those kind of things coming up.
Right now, the health factors that are impacting us as a result of the political decisions that are being made or not made is something that's very, very important to think about. I think about this. This is what I think about. I just had this conversation a couple of days ago with someone.
We had this person on that was talking about, well, actually, I took a trip down to the water plant in Minneapolis. And, you know, city of Minneapolis, they inspect their waters 500 times a day. They test their waters 500 times a day. What he told me was that Flint, Michigan, the things that happened in Flint, Michigan could have been avoided for about $2,000.
There was a political piece going on there, but for $2,000, we had this huge issue And they assumed part of that was some political decisions that were being made. So I don't think that people really do get the fact that there are some health factors that are also impacted by our political will or less or not will.
You know, also, I think that there's a lack of understanding of connection. So, for instance, how does the federal health agencies connect, for instance, with state agencies? So to give you a for instance, the center, a lot of them provide research money, research dollars. Like when I was at the state in the cardiovascular arena, we got grants from the Centers for Disease Control.
It became more... meaningful for people in general when we took those dollars and we did some interventions in the community. Like you and I, Clarence, worked together on some of those things that in the background were funded by the Centers for Disease Control. Again, the public doesn't know that in general. They don't make the connection, but they appreciate
some of the activities that come out of these research things. Now, those are interventions. Then there's also actual formal research that's done, that's given to universities, et cetera, to do a lot of studies. That money would not be available from states in general. So again, that money, most of that money comes from the federal government.
You know, Shane, I was going to say, you know, our topic today was politics and its effect on health. And I really don't, I don't believe that many people understand, you know, who you vote for. Yeah. Voting. making sure that you have people that understand the importance of health. I mean, you put people in places and they don't want to provide coverage for groups and for those kinds of things.
It's... Politics has a major, major role in terms of the health of a community. You know, all the zoning laws. I mean, you know, you know, people are, you know, people, the zoning laws, you know, you put people in and they say, well, we're going to have an incinerator here. You know, they're right next door to a to a community.
that's politics, you know, and people are putting people in that just says, yeah, yeah, we'll go to both of that. And so I think it's important that people really do understand that there is a real connection. And, you know, between this and our health, and it's not something that we normally explore.
Yeah. And, you know, I think there's confusion, too. Like, for instance, I remember just a quick story. I remember when I was out in D.C. and they were They were considering voting on the Affordable Care Act at the time. And there was a woman, I was standing in line at a museum, and there was this woman who was basically saying, I don't want the government involved in my health.
I mean, I just overheard this conversation, right? you know, being who I am, I guess I, you know, I turned around and I could tell that a little bit, a little bit. I turned around and I said, you know, I could tell that this person was a little bit on the older side. And I said, well, do you have Medicare? And she said, well, yeah, for sure.
I said, well, that, you know, you just said you don't want government involved in your in your health, does that mean you don't want Medicare? Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I definitely want my Medicare. And so there's like on one hand, you know, the public can say one thing and the other hand, you know, they don't recognize the linkages
that um some of these programs provide so there's like you know the affordable care act is one there's you know medicare there's medicaid there's you know yeah even you know you can even say social security i mean you know as it links with These are things that people don't want to, on one hand, they'll say, I don't want government involved in my health.
On the other hand, they don't want to give up these things that are given to them. So there's that back and forth, I think, that provides the confusion that leads to this confusion.
I was actually in Baltimore a couple of weeks ago at the Academy of Health. And one of the posters that was there was this poster that this lady created around the coverage of mental health services in communities. So they're actually mapping out services to communities. And what they were saying, this is what she said, and I hope I'm saying this correctly.
She was saying that there's a lot more coverage than we suspect, but it's based on whether or not you have the right kind of insurance. So we have these huge gaps in these various communities that are not being covered because they don't have the right kind of insurance, which then begins to become a political piece because we need to provide ways to do that.
So what's interesting about this particular topic is that we can go off into a thousand different ways But there's a lot of understuff. There's a lot of undercurrent with this whole issue around politics and health. And so it's kind of good to enter into this very broad section conversation.
Yeah. And just to build on that, for me, you have politics. And I'd like to take the first few letters of politics, at least from the policy perspective. but it happens at the federal level, which we were talking about, but it very much is impacted at the state level. Okay. And it's also impacted at the local level.
And so I'm just trying to think, you know, for any normal person, how do you possibly get your head around where that goes? Because, you know, from a political system perspective, you have both policy development and OK, which which actually like in the Johnson administration created Medicare and Medicaid. That was that was a biggie.
And then you have the legislative part of things that control the purse strings. Right. Right. And then the other part that, you know, Clarence, that that you were saying and also Stan, that the purse strings part also relates to our systems. of private insurance.
And so there's this inequality across insurance companies, you know, so that, you know, one plan might have a very robust mental health coverage. Another plan, not, you know, not so much. And so how, you know, how does the average person or does the average citizen start to engage in that to realize the impact it has.
And so, you know, Stan, I heard your story too, where people are saying, you know, I don't want government to mess with my healthcare and don't you dare touch my Medicare. Right, right. It's just like- And that's, again, the balance there between, so what do people mean? And I think to me, it's more, there's the insurance part of it.
And then there is, they want the government in the examining room with me with my doctor. You know, it's that kind of thing. And our system is so complicated. And I don't know how, is there a way for us to sort of at least put the buckets out there so that people have a better understanding? Because clearly politics influences our health in so many ways.
And everybody always thinks with doctors and stuff, But as we know from our research, it's housing, right? Just housing availability. It's nutrition availability. It's education. It's where you put the incinerator, right, in which neighborhood.
And we know what happens politically in which neighborhoods, oftentimes things that impact people who typically don't have much voice or influence or power. And how do you, you know, how do you break, you know, is there a way for us to actually have a conversation that breaks it down?
And also, I always think of, you know, what can I, as a citizen of Minneapolis, is there something that I can get engaged with to move things forward? And, you know, people oftentimes focus on particular issues that impact And there are so many to deal with that does that get diluted so that the end result is that we always have the status quo or things.
It's so hard to kind of move things forward. And I'll kind of defer to, you know, some of that because you've had more experience certainly in the community sectors and public health sectors than I have. Let me ask this.
Do you think we, I mean, we could even ask ourselves, do we know what we should expect from government? What do we want from them, it, those entities, as far as our health is concerned? And then, so that's question one. Question two is trust. Where does trust fit into all of this?
Again, if you reflect on what we did during the COVID pandemic at its height, I think that a lot of people all of a sudden expected certain things. just out of the gate. They expected it because they didn't know what to do. And so there was this expectation and then trust got compromised. And I think that's where politics and the politicians got involved in all of it.
And it created communication problems that created confusion, et cetera. So I don't know, Clarence, what do you think? What should we expect?
You know, I was thinking about that. When you asked that question, I just said, like, what do I expect? Exactly. You know, what do I expect? And I think I expect access. You know, I expect that, you know, that when I need health care, that it's there for me.
But I think, you know, a little bit earlier in the conversation, you know, listening to what Barry was saying, I thought about the pharmaceutical deserts. I thought about the food deserts.
And, uh, you know, what role does politics play in the fact that I think that they were saying like 25% of Walgreens drugstores are closing, you know, I mean, like you got all this stuff, you know, what does politics play in that? How is that going to affect the health of the community?
How does that affect people in, uh, how does politics affect the communities in rural Minnesota, rural, rural, rural counties around, around the, uh, Around the country, you know, I mean, it's it's pretty, pretty unclear. You know, I think that there is a there is a pie in the sky kind of of reality. I mean, pie in the sky kind of thinking about what we what we're supposed to have.
And then there's the root cause, like it's not there because the politics or the will of the community or the will of the government is not there. And so we're caught in that space right now where people are really trying to figure out what is real? You know, what can I really expect from my government now? I mean, you know, and again, we get into this fake news stuff.
I mean, it's messing with my mental health. Yeah. I think for a lot of folks, it's best with their mental health. And so for me, what I do, I cut off TV. I don't want to hear it no more. Let me kind of struggle through or do whatever I got to do. But anyway, so that's my initial thought about what do we want? What would I want?
I would want appropriate access, but that's not always available for me or for anybody else.
All right. So let me dig deeper on that one. As far as access, access to what specifically? For instance, when we're talking about access to care, then we're talking about linking that with insurance. Okay. And the government, you know, there's only limited access. government-oriented health care insurance. So, I mean, you know, all right, Medicare being one, let's just talk that for a second.
But government isn't really involved with private health insurance.
Right.
Well, I want to challenge that a little bit.
It's not necessarily a direct way But indirectly, I mean, just looking at what has happened in Minnesota from the 50 years that I was, you know, kind of becoming a doctor and in practice, you've basically, what have we seen? We've seen the disappearance. I mean, when I started, it was mostly little practices. You know, physicians and communities and what has happened over time, again, because of
the system that we have, which is more private oriented, we've just had more and more consolidation. And the role that government plays with the private insurance industry and the systems that have developed is just whether there's sort of monopoly issues or trade issues or
anti-competitiveness, but in healthcare, it doesn't, it seems like right now in either the Twin Cities or in Minnesota, there's literally just a handful of systems that are probably, now they may be nonprofit companies, okay, but there's a handful of systems that control access to, again, I didn't do the research, but it's a tremendous amount on a percentage-wise of the care that's provided.
The health plans do that, though.
They're the ones that dictate the access, but does government? What's been happening? We've seen, I think in some ways, it's more of an issue in rural communities where multiple hospitals close and the access becomes harder and harder.
in inner cities and in cities, government does tend to take more of a role with that because there have been the advent of community clinics and stuff that are more government funded, you know, more government funded than anything else. But that, you know, sort of locks in with, you know, the ability to have Medicaid as a payer, the state as a payer and things like that. So,
you know, again, government doesn't control where people set up shop, where a health plan sets up shop, unlike, well, I'm actually, I mean, I'll profess my ignorance, because I don't know exactly, for example, how the Canadian national health system, how they decide where to have hospitals, clinics, doctor's offices. So I'll kind of
turn to you guys, maybe you have a sense of how that access to care is determined. So let me ask this question.
I think that government provides some policy-oriented political oversight a little bit for these health plans in general, but limited. limited because these are private agencies or private companies but here's here's a real problem that that that i see i think there's so much confusion out there and if we had
a single payer system, you know, again, politics, government, et cetera, but put that aside for a second. If we had a single payer system, Clarence, do you think that that would help as far as making things easier as far as access, as far as understanding? In other words, I don't have to sit and navigate, you know,
10 different health plans in order to figure out which is, this is the health plan that I have done. Okay.
Yeah. With that help. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting. I think it would. I know that I've talked with a lot of people about single payer plans. But, you know, as you were talking, Stan, and again, this is my looping brain here. I thought politics, confusion equals money. Yeah.
Yeah, well, that's a whole other topic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Politics, confusion, evil is money. So, you know, there's a certain amount of, and again, this is my thinking, is that there's a certain amount of, I shouldn't say value, but there's a certain amount of gain with a lot of this stuff that we're seeing
I think it would be very helpful for us as a nation to be able to have, as you just said, have access to be able to go in and to get the kinds of services that we need. But unfortunately, money always plays a part. Money always plays a part. It's interesting, Barry, you were talking about when you started. I remember when I was younger, My doctor came to my house.
Yes, house calls. When I grew up, that Dr. Burke, he lived on the corner. I mean, he had the nicest house on my block. A little black bag. And he'd come in. I just remember getting my penicillin shot in the butt when I got sick. It's interesting.
I think on a previous show, I had mentioned that the symbol of medicine is you know, is the, you know, with the serpent and, and the actually in the staff and the staff represents the traveling nature of a physician. And, you know, we grew up with that.
You know, it's like, I remember as a kid having asthma and, you know, my, you know, a doc would cut, you know, my pediatrician would come to the house and, and treat me at the house. You don't see that anymore.
And you know what? The thing, too, is that I think when we think about politics, we have this view of just government kind of things, but there's corporate politics, too. Oh, God, yes. That's what I'm saying is that, you know, and so sometimes there is a collaboration or a coordination between the corporate and the governmental entities, which can affect our health.
Because, you know, the government can pass laws that kind of restrict the organizations from doing certain kinds of things which might be very helpful for the community. They may not say it like that, but...
Yeah, all of these things, all these factors we have to take a look at and we have to, again, we have to be much more attuned to what's really going on in order for us to really affect our community's health. And that's one of the things for me, and I'll be totally honest with you. I was talking to somebody recently and I was talking about the work that we do at Human.
You know, at one time we did like 250 health fairs a year. You know, but, you know, that's that's that's that was a long time ago when I was much younger. Now I find that that it's important for me to be more involved in the public policy making. Right. Now, that's hard for me because, you know, I don't want to do nothing with politics.
but that's where we have to go in order to really make some changes in our communities. At least for me, at least at this point in my life, I see politics, health, really, really connected together. And so therefore I have to readjust myself to be able to do these things. And so it's a struggle because, you know, I'm like, I'm the Kumbaya kind of guy, you know, but yeah, Kuba, yeah, don't work.
Yeah, right. I mean, so.
You know, you bring up a good point. You have to have good representation to help people. Yeah. But not everybody has to navigate per se, you know, which gets this whole idea of leadership. So, you know, we've got governmental leadership. Like, for instance, we have commissioners of health. We have assistant commissioners at the state and at the local, et cetera.
We have heads of centers for disease control or what have you. And then you have politicians. Okay. So it's like, how is it that we integrate leadership? so that it can affect health in a positive way. I think that that's central to this whole conversation.
Yeah. Well, you know what, Sam? I want to say this real quick, and again, I'm not being political much. I have to talk like this, okay?
Yeah, yeah.
But I remember when they were talking about, I think, Congress. Congress, they covered. I mean, you're a Congress person. You're going to get your stuff is covered. But sometimes when you are in a situation like that where you don't have to worry about something, you're not as sensitive to what other people might need.
And I think that that's part of the challenge that we have is that some people already got it made. They don't have to think about this. So this is not necessarily something that they have to worry about. But for other people, we have to think about this stuff.
And we have to utilize the political system in order to make sure that we're getting the kind of services that we need for our communities. So yeah, the politics is a big deal.
Yeah. So, you know, we're coming up into a, well, we're meshed in an election coming up here. And, you know, what kind of message do we, you know, who've been in the healthcare environment, what is it that we want to say to our listening audience when you're dealing with elections In this case, you're dealing with politicians and health.
What, what, what are you thinking about? Yeah. I tell you, I tell you what a lot of people are talking about. They're definitely talking about mental health and politicians. There's a lot, there's a lot of, a lot of concerns people have about the mental health and the capacity and those kinds of things. As we, we started talking about this country and those kinds of things. And yeah,
That's a major thing. People are concerned. I mean, and that's at that level. But at the other level, at the community level, I mean, I'm walking down, I'm walking or driving through communities and I'm seeing that a lot of people A lot of people with mental health issues walk in our streets. What do we do as politicians?
I mean, what do we do as community members and as politicians to try to address that? A lot of that is political. I mean, having money to provide services for people. I remember when... Again, this goes back a while. I don't know if this is Ronald Reagan period or not, where they started closing down the institutions and started releasing people back into the community and things like that.
And it's like, it's just a snowball. It just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And we're starting to see more and more mental health issues that are starting to emerge. I mean, pressures that we talked about before, the food, the housing, all those kinds of things, those are stressors.
And if you can't address those kinds of issues, or if there's not a way for you to be able to provide for yourself, it's a health issue. It's going to be a health. And if it's not mental health, it's going to be a physical health. Right. You're going to catch a cold. You're going to get pneumonia.
All these things are just starting to point back to the fact that there is a strong connection between politics and the health of our communities.
Is it more complicated today than it was yesterday?
Barry, I see you shaking your head. Barry, what do you think?
Yeah, no, I think it's gotten extremely more complicated. And part of that, I mean, all these things change within Within health care, there's been lots of progress. And so it kind of the scaffold, you know, the building keeps getting higher and it gets more and more complicated. So the answer is yes. What we haven't, you know, again, this is my perspective.
This is not, you know, my physician hat, but just as a citizen hat, is that what we've seen is extreme polarization within the political world. And as a result of that, and this is the thing that upsets me the most, is sort of that polarization then would weaponize things in health. And I'll just use the whole vaccine piece when COVID came out.
And part of the thing that's more upsetting to me is understanding that in science and research, you come up with a theory or a hypothesis and you test it out. And most of the time, the things that we do for preventive health, we have to test it out and see if it works. And there are some things that we're right about, and there are other things that we're wrong.
And we expect that that's going to evolve over time. And what I've seen in politics is sort of trying to make it so simple for everybody by thinking that everything that you do is going to be that way forever. And we know that things evolve and change all the time. And that's not a weakness of the system.
That's actually a strength of the system because we're continually looking for a better way to do things. And it's not only within our communities, it's more on a a global basis. I mean, it's looking out that from a health perspective, what things have worked in other places.
I mean, not just Minneapolis, but even looking across the river to St. Paul, you know, I mean, or even Wisconsin.
That's the, that's the, you know, the, the piece to me is how, you know, something that should be for the benefit of, our entire population. And I'll just say, if you're a citizen of Minnesota, you're entitled to this. And when things get weaponized, it tends to divide people more and then you lose the ability to have a civil conversation about things and to reach agreement.
It's just like people get on each side and they're just fighting each other instead of tackling you know, the issues, because I think at our core, you know, don't we care about the good of our communities?
Well, I hope so.
I would think that we do, but how do we break through all that posturing and the polarization that, like I say, if I... If I could come up with the secret sauce, or if you can, that would be a good thing.
Erin, I want to get your insight into this, you know, from a younger generation. Are you there, Erin?
I am there. I guess I'm like a little bit disheartened from our chat on politics and health because I don't feel like there should be any sides. And like we talk about that there's one side versus the other side. I feel like this is one topic that shouldn't be a place where people are taking sides. It should be a place where people are agreeing that I want to be healthy.
I want my family to be healthy and I want my community to be healthy. And it's just really disheartening to sit here and talk about how politics has such a massive influence on our health and wellbeing. And there's people out there that would rather spend less money on keeping the communities healthy in it.
So I guess, unfortunately, I feel like this is a very grim episode this week that this is what we're faced with at the moment. And it makes me a little nervous for the election coming up, I guess.
Yeah. So what do you think about when, you know, when, when you're thinking about electing officials or leaders, what's in your head, Erin?
I really liked the conversation that you guys had about expectations. And when I think about what I want government to do for me and the expectations I have for government for me and my family is keeping me safe. And one of those being healthcare. And there are some instances in which I do not feel safe With healthcare, I'm type 1 diabetic, and it's extremely expensive.
During a job transition, which I'm going through at the moment, I don't necessarily feel safe. I'm worried about... you know, employee insurance, how that transition is going to look. And in my mind, it's the government's job to keep me safe, not my employers.
And so I think when I'm talking about voting for a new elected official, I want somebody in office who's going to advocate for my communities to be safe. And that includes health care.
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. You know, Stan, as we were talking, thank you, Aaron, for that, because I really appreciate that view. When you were talking, you started out the program by talking about the woman in line where she was saying, like, she was in government in her business.
you know i i just think about uh when i was younger when i younger oh yeah i was younger uh yeah i was younger i i did i did a training one time and and i asked different you know people talking about well we don't want welfare we don't you know no those people and we were i was in the agricultural community and i asked this question what's the difference between welfare and farm subsidies yeah right
Okay. And though they were mad, they were mad. I'm just saying, wait a minute, I'm just asking the question. I'm just, you know, it's those people, they take it, you know, okay. But I think so many times the way that we describe things, and we talked before about this, the way that people like to define things
sets us up for this unhealthy conversation about how do we work together in order to make sure that the world is better. I always look at it like this, and I'm in the community a lot of times. I said, I care about what happens in Brooklyn Center and Edina. I said, because if an epidemic breaks out there, guess what? It's going to hit South Minneapolis too. So I have to be thinking more.
But a lot of times people say, well, that's them and not us. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. You have to understand how interconnected we are in this world. And so the politics that you are fighting against or you're trying to impose, is that going to ultimately affect you and your family? And you and your children, you know what I mean?
And so it's not like we want to throw money at issues and just wasting money. That's not what I'm talking about at all. But I am talking about how do we create safety nets for our communities? How do we utilize the political system to create safety nets for our communities so that all of us can benefit? Because if we have a huge crisis here, we're going to pay more taxes. You know what I'm saying?
I mean, it's like, you know, but it's like people are like, well, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm like, okay. So anyway, there's some arguments I just can't, I just can't.
I have to let it go. So here's another aspect of that story I was telling you about when I was standing in line with that person. We're standing in line to see, ready, the Declaration of Independence.
Oh.
Okay. Okay. Wow. And I said, you know, and I said to this woman, I said, well, you know, the government is us. And I said, you will see it in a minute. We, the people.
Yeah.
Okay. So, but I think, and maybe incorrectly, but I think where we've gotten is that government is on one side of the equation and we, the public, are on the other. And excuse me, the government is us because we elect these people to help us, to represent us. And I think that disconnect is what's hurting us.
I think a lot of people see the word, consider the word government as maybe overbearing or as negative. And that's unfortunate. So, all right. Barry, last comments on this. I mean, we could go on and on about this, but I think... Oh, by the way, we're going to have... Our next show will be linked with this, and I'll talk about that in a minute. Go ahead, Barry.
Yeah. So I guess where I would... My big takeaway on this is really more an increased awareness level that... to try and be a bit more reflective in understanding that the connections between politics and health are complicated and they're ubiquitous. It impacts so many different... It's all part of this very complex web and you can't divorce...
uh, politics from, from health and, and just this, this appreciation, um, of, of maybe taking an extra, you know, half minute to be thinking about, uh, how the things that, that we do politically, um, how they have an impact on our health so that that's the one thing. And then, then the other piece is to, uh, uh,
try and come up with a way to be having, you know, conversations about this with your friends and neighbors. I mean, I think that's, you know, when, you know, we, we do have more in common, you know, with our neighbors than we think, but part of not, when you don't have the conversation, you know, you don't, you don't know.
So it's awareness and being open to conversation and, and other points of view and find where the, where the common bond is. And then hopefully it'll become a movement and we'll make some positive changes for all of us. That's all. Final thoughts.
You know what? When I saw this topic, I thought that we were going to be talking. I mean, there were so many things that went through my mind because there's so many emotions that are attached to both politics and and the issue of health. And so it was like, how do you manage to pull those two things together? And then how can we move the conversation ahead?
And I do believe that by having a conversation like this is important. And people are at different places, but we gotta talk. And so I just thank you. I thank you and Barry both for just talking. And Aaron, thank you for just talking. I think I can sleep better tonight.
So, you know, last thought for me is I think the issues of politics and health are much more linked today with the concept of power. And whether that's power with our political leaders, if it's power within agencies, if it's power at the state, local levels, et cetera. And I believe that the public doesn't appreciate that. And it gets in the way. I think this is my opinion.
I think it gets in the way of us moving ahead in a healthy way when there's more power involved with it. And to your point previously, Clarence, you know, power is linked with money and et cetera. And so maybe we need to kind of go back a little bit and do a little bit more reflecting and maybe embrace some things, ideas and concepts that are healthier going forward.
So this is a conversation that perhaps we could address after the elections take place. And we could say, okay, we talked about it before the elections. Now, these are the leaders that we have. What implications does this now have going forward. So stay tuned on that. We can take a look at that. So thank you, Barry. Thanks, Aaron. Thanks, Clarence. This is a great conversation.
Our next topic for Health Chatter is linked with this, ironically, and we're going to be talking about this whole concept of fake news. So that should be an interesting discussion. So for our listening audience, keep health chatting.