Stan, Barry, and the Health Chatter team chat about burials, funerals, and health. Listen along as the team reflects on their personal experiences and how these experiences influence health and well-being.Join the conversation at healthchatterpodcast.comBrought to you in support of Hue-MAN, who is Creating Healthy Communities through Innovative Partnerships.More about their work can be found at http://huemanpartnership.org/
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on burial, funerals, and health, a trifecta of subjects here that certainly connect to one another. It can be a sad subject, it can be a happy subject, but we all deal with it. So we'll get to that in a minute. It'll be with our Health Chatter crew. We'll be talking about this. We all have a lot of experiences that we can share.
Have a great crew. That includes Manny Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, and of course, Barry Baines is our medical advisor. Thanks to all of you. You're second to none. By the way, everybody on the podcast here, all our research that we do for our shows is available on our website at healthchatter.com.
And of course, you can get the podcast themselves at that site as well. Also with us, of course, is my great colleague, Clarence Jones, who co-hosts the show with us and also links us to a great community health organization called Hugh Mann Partnership, who sponsors Health Chatter for us. Greatly appreciate them. and the work that they do, you can check them out at humanpartnership.org.
So thanks, everybody. So here we go. Let's talk about this subject today, burial, funerals, and health. So you know what? I think what maybe I'll do is I'll start this out with get a little bit of a personal reflection on this subject matter from all of us. Barry?
Yeah, I'd like to say I'm an orphan in terms of my, both my, you know, once your parents are gone, and my parents died, you know, in a good number of years ago in 1990 and 1993, my dad first and then my mom, and my in-laws also now have passed with, so they're all gone. And one of the things that
to me that that always is important is understanding that even though your loved ones are gone it doesn't end the relationship that you have with them or that you had with them it's different you know because they're they're not there and I think one of the fears that
that I used to have, but I figured out a way to get around it is I worry that I'm, you know, that I'm going to forget about them and forget about that relationship. And so for me, when, when I lose a loved one, I want to ensure a way that I can remember them. And, you know, like I said, I've done, you know, a show on ethical wills where you kind of leave your values and things like that.
So I always try and carry some legacy that, from loved ones. And that always rekindles the relationship and just makes it easier because the grief never totally goes away. It's always with you, this idea of get over it. It's more, how do you integrate yourself as a person with losses? Because all of us have losses
You know, through our lifetimes and some of it is, you know, losing, you know, losing loved ones. And that's what we're going to be focusing on. So my personal piece of that is how do you make it meaningful? Everybody grieves at their own rate and pace. And it just it doesn't go away. And the relationship doesn't go away either.
So it's a lasting relationship as long as you're alive to remember a person that you love that's gone. it helps to kind of get through the days sometime. I have one really quick humorous story and then I'll kind of be quiet here.
But I always remember my mom and my dad, when they had tough decisions that, you know, even though like my grandmother, my Bubby, even though she was gone, both my dad and my mom would, you know, kind of, you know, talk to her, they wouldn't go to a medium to contact her, but it was sort of like, you know, what would Bubby do in an, you know, in this kind of situation.
So, so they're also, you can call them up to consult, you know, with you in your mind's eye, in your mind's eye. And that's, that's very, you know, that's very important too. So I say, obviously as a hospice medical director, I've, I, deal, you know, deal a lot with people who go through that.
And it has really sensitized me to, you know, some of the before conversation, you know, Clarence, that everybody does it in their own way. That's not one size fits all. Correct. I said too much already. I'm going to be quiet now.
All right, Maddie, personal question. Yeah.
Yeah, so I, I lost both of my maternal grandparents, my grandmother about 15 years ago now, and my grandfather about five years ago, I've also lost a few family pets, which is definitely a different, still a deep grief, but, you know, different. In terms of my grandparents, I think one of the things that I'm constantly thinking about in terms of
mourning a death and grieving a loss is how to process my own grief and also hold space for my family members processing their grief too. So for example, you know, my maternal grandparents, obviously my mom lost both of her parents. When my grandmother died, my mom was in her forties, which is really young to lose a parent. And obviously that's been
a huge loss and my mom thinks about it every day. And so how do I process the loss of my own, of my own grandparents while also, you know, being there to support my mom and her everlasting grief. So, um, there's a lot of grief to hold and a lot of different capacities. So that's something that I'm kind of always navigating too. Um, so yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like Barry said, it never stops.
And it's interesting. Everyone's process is different. But I'm looking forward to kind of diving in and talking more about different traditions around rituals and burials. So, yeah.
Great. Thanks for sharing that. Sheridan. Sheridan.
Yeah, I unfortunately have quite a bit of experience with death and dying in my life. Like Barry, I also professionally am surrounded by it a lot. I worked in research with much older people. They call them the oldest old in literal research. So they're much older than even just like senior citizens. They're 80s, 90s, 100.
And I'm constantly losing participants or talking to participants that are in hospice or losing a loved one. So I'm really surrounded by it a lot in my in my daily life. And then in my personal life, I certainly have been through quite a few losses. I've talked about them on the podcast before, especially in the organ donation episode. So do refer back to that episode if that's interesting to you.
And I would also like to note that organ donation and the conversation that we're having today are going to be very different, but they are obviously linked in a way. And we do have other episodes about death and dying. So check those out if you're interested in this topic. But my personal experience has been different with every death.
So I think it's just interesting as you grow as a person and as you have more life experiences, your experience with death and dying changes a lot, too. And a lot of the death that I... I lost my grandma over COVID, so I was not able to say goodbye. I was not able to see her. It was really, really challenging. We'll definitely talk about COVID later.
I did the research for today's episode, so I know that that's in there. I also know that I learned so much from the research. I didn't go into a lot of detail about... the differences between cultures. And I think that we can talk about that with our own personal experiences here. But I'm just really excited to talk more about it.
The research was really interesting and looking forward to the conversation.
Yeah, the research was really interesting. I mean, we could definitely do more than one show on this subject. So my personal story is... My father passed away when I was very young. And I think I might've,
reflected on this previously, but whenever I think this might be true with just about any family, there's always someone that has to kind of take the ball, you know, the bull by the horns to run all the logistics when somebody passes away while other people are kind of grieving in their own way. And I was that.
person for, for my father, um, you know, all the logistics of, you know, funeral arrangements and the whole, the whole thing. And, um, I realized it was only two weeks after my father passed away that I totally lost it. I mean, I just, you know, cried my heart out. And yet today I still grieve that. Okay. That I didn't, I wasn't able to, um, Process, I guess, is maybe the word.
Process that grieving. I never had a situation like that before. And so today, to this day, I'm still trying to figure that out. Okay. And, um, and one way I do that is, um, I visit the, um, the cemetery where my, my father is buried, my father and mother. The other thing is, and, and Maddie, you kind of alluded to this, um, for myself, I never met any of my grandparents.
And so then you, you ask a question of how do you link with them? And, um, Again, at least on my father's side, his parents are buried at the same cemetery. So when I visit him and his gravesite, I visit them too. And so there's that kind of a linkage. I do not know whether that's part of a grieving process or I do not know whether or not that's just part of your spiritual soulful component.
But that's one thing I do. And there's a personal story about it. So, all right. So there's a lot of stuff here. So I'm going to start out with one that I think is kind of interesting. All right. And it relates to cultural differences and maybe even religious differences.
So I recently went on a long road trip with my pooch, Murphy, and we went to our first stop was at a national monument park called Effigy Mounds. National Park. It's north of Davenport, Iowa. It's in the cliffs overlooking the Mississippi River. Beautiful, beautiful forest, dense forest, and beautiful vistas of the Mississippi River. Highly recommend a visit to it if you live close by for sure.
At any rate, up in the middle of this forest are burial sites for American Indians that buried their people there. Mounds. There are mounds in the middle of the forest. It's like a clearing. All of a sudden, what the heck? There are no trees and there are these mounds. And this is where they buried themselves along with bears. So when bears would die...
They would bury them along with their loved ones. So, you know, you stop and you look at that and you say, wow, talk about culture or talk about how people deal with death. And here's how this Native American did it in that area of the country. So let's talk about this a little bit, you know, the culture of it all. Yeah, Barry, how about you?
I think the, you know, ritual traditions, how they relate to religion, being Jewish, what I appreciate is the ability to actually stretch out the grieving process. A lot of times, you know, when a person dies, it's sort of like the pressure to get over it. And, and that actually creates a lot of health issues for people.
Um, and you know, in, in Judaism with death, you get this gathering of community to really help. And it's just how it stages that grief where that, that first week, uh, in Judaism is called the Shiva period. Um, where, you know, basically you, uh, it's, it's supposed to be seven, seven days long Shiva means seven in, uh, in Hebrew. Um,
Most people these days or a lot of people shorten it a bit to not just be sitting and you cover your mirrors in your house and you sit on hard stools when guests come. But most of that Shiva period is spent talking about the person who's gone and remembering stories. And everybody who knew that person has a story. And so you get this treasure trove of stories, which provides a lot of comfort.
So there's that first week. And then the second week, the next phase is a month long period. And that's called Shloshim. And again, it's you sort of stay away from celebrations and stay with your morning and then gradually reintegrate into your community. And usually the morning period lasts a year where you would say a special prayer for those who are observant. called the Kaddish.
It's a prayer of remembrance in a way. And then at the end of that time, the grieving period formally ends, although everybody appreciates that it never ends. And there's on the anniversary of that person's death, that's sort of when people are remembered. Interestingly, the anniversary of my mother's death starts tonight. So I'll be...
you know, saying this prayer and lighting a candle, you know, so again, it comes on. So I sort of like that more gradual reintegration back into your community rather than trying to compress your grieving and, you know, kind of just, you know, get over it kind of thing because I think we've already acknowledged that everybody goes at their own pace and you know, even a year may not be enough.
Right. You know, it's, it's, you know, it goes on, I think, you know, longer than that, but certainly focusing in on, on that gradual reintroduction, I think is helpful. So that's the rituals that, that I kind of under, you know, understand and have been a part of. And for myself, they, they've always been very, very helpful. Maddie. How about for you?
Yeah, so I'm also Jewish. So a lot of what Barry said is also how my family mourns and grieves, especially in the immediate aftermath of death. And I always found the Shiva tradition relatively uplifting. I feel like at least in my family or my extended family, the sitting Shiva period was always more of like a celebration of life. which I feel like is really lovely.
And then also on a personal note, I started working with a rabbi several months ago, about a year ago, just to kind of like learn more about my own understanding of Judaism and dive into kind of like my own spirituality. And one of the things we're really focused on is
unpacking kind of like mourning and death and mortality within Judaism so um you know that's obviously relevant to this episode so just continuing to kind of learn like how Judaism really looks at life um and the the rituals after death and um and you know all all that kind of stuff so um you know this is kind of just propelling that conversation in my mind.
For me, I am not religious. I would call myself more spiritual, but I don't really know what that means. I'm currently in the process of trying to kind of explore that for myself.
um my family is not very religious we are not super in touch with our cultural roots um so every funeral has been different for me um just based on preference and i think that's kind of an interesting thing about america is you can really find any kind of funeral or memorial service or celebration of life service today you can
You can really I mean, I've gone to a tree planting ceremony where somebody had their ashes made into like a tree and we planted that and everybody threw dirt onto the tree. And it was really lovely. But I've never seen anything like that before. I've also done the traditional funerals just in like a funeral home with open caskets and whatnot.
So I think it's one thing I have found beautiful is the. the breadth of different ways that you can decide to celebrate your life at the end. I think something that's really interesting about this is we plan funerals and we never get to attend our own funeral and we never get to hear the beautiful things that all of our loved ones say about us. So I think I had this thought when I was 15.
I said, I think if I know that I would be dying, I think I would have my funeral with me still there. I think I would force everybody to come with me still there. And I would like to hear all of those things for myself. And if they would still like to do something after I've passed, sure. But I mean, it's a little different. I'm not sure how many people would be interested in going. But
i've just always thought that's kind of funny that we sit there and say beautiful things but the person doesn't get to hear them um so i've actually sorry i was just gonna say really good i've actually seen that in movies sheridan and it is kind of like i think for what we culturally do around death and loss i think it is somewhat of like a radical idea but i definitely i i
I hear you, and I think, yeah, that's something I've thought about too. That's a really interesting idea, so I support you. Thank you.
It's definitely weird, but... So here's a couple of things that I think are important to bring out. Inevitably... you will go about doing your things in life and then all of a sudden you will hear from somebody, they'll come up and say, hey, did you hear that so-and-so passed away? And it's like a little bit of a shock
You might not be real close to that person, but close enough so that you know them, you know of them, you interact with them at one point on and off. And so it causes kind of a, at least for me, it causes kind of an immediate reflection about that person. You might not attend their funeral. And that might be it as far as how you deal with it, but it still hits you.
And it causes us to be, I will say human, more human, connected maybe for that moment in time. Along with it, what I'd like to do is talk about what makes other people comfortable when somebody that has passed away. So for instance, I'll, I'll reflect on this. When my father passed away, I remember many people coming up to me and saying, literally, sorry for your loss.
And I remember thinking about that afterwards. It's like, it's well intent. But I also remember one gentleman who was very, very close to my father. They were good friends. And when we were doing Shiva, you know, after my father passed away, he came into the house and didn't say a word to me. He put his hand on my shoulder, and that was it.
And to this day, that nonverbal reaction sticks with me a lot. So it's not that you have to say something or you don't have to be compelled to say something. Just your mere presence of support is meaningful and in many ways healthy for people. The other thing that, um, that I'd like to reflect on and it links Sheridan to your, to your thoughts, um, are eulogies.
It's like, you know, when you go in and you go to a funeral and you listen to a eulogy, whether it's given by a, um, a minister or pastor or rabbi, um, or family members or friends, um, It really is a reflection on a point in time and history with that person that has passed away. And for some, it's very, very needed. Very, very needed.
And sometimes it gives reason or purpose to the person's passing away, especially if it was an unexpected death. Okay, so my goodness, there was a lot of great research. I highly recommend that everybody... check into the background research that Sheridan put together for this episode because it's really quite insightful.
So what we're dealing with here is health and somebody passing away, namely grief. How is it that you deal with grief? Barry, you made the point that everybody grieves differently. Some people get over it, I guess, it very, very quickly. Some people hang on to it, et cetera.
I will tell you this, and one thing you didn't mention, Barry, was, and Maddie and myself, in Judaism, what happens is when somebody passes away and it happens to be your mother or your father, a very, very close one, typically the rabbi historically would tear your garment, like a piece of your clothing. Today, they give you like a black ribbon and tear it.
And it's supposed to be symbolic of somebody who's been torn from your life. And You know, it's a visual, symbolic component to the grieving process. So with all of that, there's a lot of things that we all do. You know, we do flowers. We light candles. We, you know, we tear a garment. We put flowers at a gravesite.
In Jewish cemeteries, if you go to different gravestones, you will see people put rocks, little stones, by a grave site just as a reminder that they have visited and hopefully that that will provide comfort to those that have passed away. So let's talk about symbols a little bit and verbal things that people say. Any comments on that, Barry, Sheridan?
maddie any any thoughts on the verbal aspects or the symbolic aspects that we all kind of deal with any any ideas on that i think that um the verbal is always difficult i mean i i feel like um i even though i've experienced loss myself and i it's it's always just hard to know what the right thing to say is um
even if, you know, it's not your first time supporting someone in their own loss, um, because you never know what, yeah, you never know what the right thing to say is. Um, you never want to say something that, you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry if your loss is kind of like a standard, um, and you never want it to sound like inauthentic because it's said so often.
And, you know, um, so I think for me, it's just a matter of like, um, telling the person, friend, family member that I'm here for them if they need anything. But it can be really difficult because like we already talked about, you know, everyone kind of processes and mourns and grieves in a different way. So yeah, I just, I think it's, it's challenging.
And if anyone else like knows the right thing to say, please tell me, but I feel like it's, you know, it's, it's, it's sad and it's difficult. And yeah, I feel like there's no, there's no one perfect thing that's going to make it better.
I kind of agree with Maddie. You know, there are some scripts about, you know, things to say. And I think the little story that you told, Stan, of just someone coming over and touching you, it's realizing the comfort of just a presence and being there and that you don't, people feel oftentimes compelled to say something. And then they're also worried.
They're not going to say the right, the right thing is how do you comfort? And oftentimes just going over and just looking at the person and touching them says, you know, says it all. Yeah. Um, and, and I, you know, I, I guess the thing, you know, something simple, I, you know, I'm sorry for your loss. Um,
Again, and then just, you know, hanging out or telling, you know, letting the griever sort of initiate, you know, where you go. And oftentimes I think what we bring when we go to a funeral is that we have within us a nugget, as it were, of the experience that we've had with their loved one. And it's the sharing of that that oftentimes...
brings the most comfort because oftentimes you hear things that you never heard before um you know about you know experiences and stuff like that and stuff like that so i you know i think simple is is best um and just being a presence and being there to listen and as maddie said and to support um i think the other the other piece is that uh realizing that initially
After the person, a loved one dies, there's lots of people visiting. Yes. And then as time goes on, all of a sudden, and that's a great support for the griever. And then what happens over time is that really disappears. And so thinking about maintaining a presence, not in the first weeks afterwards, but also to be checking in. that oftentimes can be the most helpful.
Because I think a lot of people, when they lose somebody and they grieve, they start to feel isolated. And then this is where we get into some of the medical things about why people get depressed. And it's normal to get depressed after you lose a loved one. I mean, that's a real health thing. However, when unresolved grief, which is grief
a very deep grief that goes on for a long period of time can create significant health issues for people that, you know, we obviously don't have, you know, we could spend many episodes, you know, focusing in, you know, on that piece. You know, they're shocking deaths.
as well. Unexpected versus expected. Somebody gets killed in a motor vehicle accident, or somebody gets shot, or an active service member gets killed in the line of duty. These are more shocking. and perhaps more difficult to deal with. But that's where truly family support, community support becomes very, very important.
One thing that Sheridan brought up in her research for this show are the costs. of burying somebody, you know, of a funeral today. And they aren't cheap. And, you know, for instance, in Judaism, there's the concept, you know, dust to dust. And so oftentimes Jewish people are buried in a plain pine box. Nothing extravagant at all. As far as a casket is concerned.
On the other hand, there are a lot of different caskets that people feel are important. So there's a lot of costs. And to a certain extent, funeral costs are unexpected. I mean, you just don't realize, then all of a sudden you're kind of hit with this. So I recommend that everybody read some of the background research here that gives a sense of it.
Another thing, and maybe Sheridan, you can reflect on this a little bit, is organ donation. And that's number one. And then body donation. Okay, for at least theoretically for science purposes, did you, when you were researching this, did anything hit you specifically about that?
Yeah, absolutely. So this is actually probably we could do a whole episode, I think, on medical body donation. I would like to I would like to prep and if people are interested, we would I would absolutely be willing to do that. But I would like to preface that the organ donation is very different than medical body donation. Absolutely. Yep.
Organ donation has to you have to consent to this while you're still alive. You would say so on your driver's license or an advanced directive. And you would just be donating organs in certain situations. And it can also include your skin and eyes and all of these other useful components to living people.
Now, when you die and if for some reason you have not indicated exactly how you would want to be buried or cremated, and your family is kind of at a loss, and a lot of times families cannot afford the costs associated with a funeral service, that's where these medical body donation situations come into play. And so there are several different types of organizations that do this.
You can donate directly to universities. So the University of Minnesota is one of them where I work and am a grad student. And you can donate your body directly to the University of Minnesota. This is going to be one of the more regulated ways to donate your body to science. Otherwise, there are these other organizations, and they come in several different names.
There is a legal commercial market that exists for the purchase and sale of cadavers and even dismembered parts. So the loved ones of the descendants of the decedents they make no profit on the remains of these, of their loved ones. So they, basically are selling their loved ones remains to a body broker who collects cadavers generally for free.
And the body brokers stand to make somewhere between 4,000 and 8,000, typically around 5,800 for selling a whole cadaver. So picture this, your loved one has just passed. You can't afford a funeral. Somebody approaches you for a free way to have them cremated and you and also use some of their body for science. There is a contract that you sign. The contract is highly legal.
It has a lot of jargon. It's very confusing. You sign it because you don't have a lot of other options. And then you find out later that your loved one's body was not used for actual medical research. It was used for research literally anywhere. The bodies could be sold to the military. It could be used...
by like research companies that are trying to understand like knee implants and how they would fit into bodies and things like this. So you really have no idea where your loved one is going after you have signed this contract. You're typically told that it will be used for research and education, but there's really little oversight and people that have done
exposés and a lot more research into this topic have found several instances where bodies are being exploited. One example is that a body was donated to Tulane University in 2004, where it was shipped to a broker who then passed this body to the army for landmine experiments. Now, for me, that happening to my loved one, that would just be devastating. That is truly a gross misuse of
exploitation of someone's grief and lack of resources. And this is unfortunately still going on. I know that that is in 2004, but there have been several instances. You can look them up. It's really concerning. But yeah, a lot of that came up in my research. But this, again, I would like to make it very clear, this is extremely different than organ donation.
And we have an entire episode on organ donation, which if you have any questions, go check that episode out, but it is entirely different. Please do try to keep them separate in your head. I know they sound similar, but that is a really important point that they are very different.
You know, it, I remember distinctly taking anatomy course at the, at the university of Minnesota and, And I remember, and you know, we were in a laboratory with cadavers. And I remember our professor, before we even started, he said, all right, no matter where you come from, what kind of culture you have, what religion you have, these people
have donated their bodies for us, for educational purposes and for you to become knowledgeable. And he said, before we ever get started, we're taking a moment of silence just to thank them. And we did. And wow, that was really quite powerful. And it also caused us when we were studying these particular cadavers to do it ever so carefully and with respect.
And it was really, that really stuck with me all these years. Clarence, welcome back. I really want to get you just some overall thoughts
from you um regarding this this topic of funeral and death um what hits your core what really what have you what you know in all your years what have you really learned that really um affects you to this day i think what i what i really learned is that grief is universal that that people uh experience it in a variety of different ways but uh
it's important that there is support for people when they're going through this process. And that, I know that one of the first things that I saw that I thought it was this, the fact that death and dying is a fundamental part of the human experience.
And so in some kind of way, all of us are gonna be affected, whether we're young or whether we're older, at some point, this issue is going to come up. So that for me is the important thing is that when this issue, does come up, that we have ways in which we are able to be supportive of each other, but also that we have skills and tools in which to help us to get through it. Yeah.
Yeah. All right, everybody. Roundtable. Last thoughts. Barry.
I want to just quickly tie together a couple of things. One is the great research that Sheridan had done. And that is that funerals are expensive. And most people don't know about it. Oftentimes, and this actually is a plea for doing some pre-planning, as Clarence mentioned, and as all of us know, taxes and one other thing in life and death, we are all going to die.
And one of the greatest gifts that you can leave for your family is to do some pre-planning about your funeral. because then you have that say beforehand. And I don't mean just about how the service is going to be, because that's also very important. But understanding the options that are available from a cost perspective, that's extremely important.
And being aware of those kind of things and having those conversations is very helpful. Again, obviously, if you're in hospice, Those things are addressed up front. And so, you know, expected, those things are expected. But there are, you know, most people don't go into hospice, so they don't have, you know, that, you know, that ability to have those conversations.
So it's kind of thinking about the pre-planning aspect. And also in the whole area of funerals, there's, you know, not surprisingly, green funerals. And I think Sheridan was taught, I forget if it was Sheridan or Maddie about the service, I think it was Sheridan, the service with the tree and the ashes and things like that.
And more and more people are opting for green funerals that, again, you know, for further, you know, reading and research. But these other options have come up. And the fact that cremation has become much more common than regular, you know, what I call standard burials. And most of that is because of the cost.
And the other last piece is that I know the whole funeral industry has started to pivot around the importance of pre-funeral planning to really help the family to meet the needs so that it's not under pressure where, you know, I lost my loved one, I need to bury them.
And then you're, you know, the pressure to make all these decisions and you're already not making your best judgments because you're grieving. And so the idea of you can get sort of get over the denial part that we are, that we all are going to die at some point. And to be thinking more about how to make that process a little bit more helpful and less stressful for everybody.
That's the other thing is when you do that pre-planning, it takes a big load off the survivors. And so that's my plea is to be thinking about having those conversations. Yeah.
Matty, last thoughts.
I think Maddie wanted to skip her last thoughts. I just got that message.
It's not a big deal. I don't have that much. I don't have articulate concluding thoughts. So I just wanted to leave it with everyone else's concluding thoughts.
So I have two things I'd like to quickly say. One is what I have realized all these years after going to different places around the world and cemeteries is the history. It's like all of a sudden you go, like for instance, I went recently to the boyhood home of Abraham Lincoln in northern Tennessee, and buried there is his mother.
And there was a gravestone there, and she was 35 years old when she passed away. And I couldn't help, but I stopped in front of this gravestone, and The thought that came to my mind was this. I hope you really realize how significant your son was in the lives of many, many people in the United States that she couldn't, she wasn't able to take advantage of at 35 years old when she passed away.
Then the last thing I want to do is read something that actually Sheridan provided us in her great research. The word funeral was first used in the 1300s. The word funeral is believed to have been used by Geoffrey Chaucer, who's often considered the father of the English language. It appeared in writing in his Middle English work, The Knight's
Hale, in which he refers to the funeral service after a character passes away. It was published in 1386, making it the first written use of the word funeral that we know of today. With that, that's the end of our show today. Our next show will be on health and safety. So tune in to that. And in the meantime, everybody keep health, chatting away.