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you know, you look at the list of them and I can honestly say, you know, and I've been in the health field a long, long time, but I really learned a lot. I really, I really, really learned a lot. And, um, and I hope that that's true for, for everyone. It's like, there's, there were like takeaways from just about every show that I thought were, were really good. The, um,
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So Clarence, it's been an absolute pleasure working with you and the rest of the crew. And then finally, Human Partnership. Without them as our sponsor, we couldn't do this. And so thank you very much to them. Great community health organization. Recognizing
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For instance, one of the shows on hearing, for instance, we timed that show when a law was passed here where it's easier for people to get hearing aids over the counter, actually, in drugstores or even in places like Best Buy. And it's like, whoa, okay, what do we need to know here before we proceed with something like that? Another show, even though I was kind of
Health Chatter
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knowledgeable about it, but I'm not sure that others were, were a show on orthopedic replacements, you know, knee replacements, shoulder replacements. And we had Dr. David Fisher on and who's a really noted orthopedic surgeon. And I know him intimately because he did both my knees and, and, and how things have really progressed, you know, you know, just over, over the course of years.
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You know, 35 years ago, the thought of having a knee replaced was not in everybody's psyche. And now you can. And so these are things, medical advancements really became a good subject to talk about. Yeah, Erin.
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Absolutely. And I know you were on the show and I thank you You know, for your insights about, your personal insights about diabetes, greatly, greatly appreciated. And I'm hoping that in those kinds of situations, people get a sense of how others can empathize and help. And I think that's really, really important. One thing I came out of is communication. How about that is a theme.
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I mean, it's like we, you know, obviously we kind of use these podcasts as a vehicle for communication, but then what we communicate about and when we do it and how we do it. So for instance, we had Jeremy Olson on from the Star Tribune. We had Mike Shomer on from the Minnesota Department of Health. Arkel Georgiou talked about communication as a health advisor on KSTP television.
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And timing a messaging, you know, you think about COVID and how we messaged around that. It was really crazy, but we learned a lot as well. And so I think communication was a major theme throughout many of our shows.
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everything that really needs to be done for all of us as it relates to health, you can check them out at humanpartnership.org and also our website at healthchatter.org. podcast.com. So thanks to everybody. So let's get this show going. This should be kind of interesting. It's like, where do you start when we've had a myriad of different subjects around health?
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Yeah, we don't want to shy away from hard issues here. That's for sure. And, you know, we had other issues, too. I mean, we addressed racism, which is a tough... I mean, it's like, you know, you do a show on racism as a title of a show, and kind of the first thing you say is, where do you start? I mean, it's just like, how is it that you encapsulate racism in a show? We also...
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did a show on anti-Semitism. Remember that? And so I think we did those shows almost back to back. And these are issues, if you think about today, literally today, what we're really facing with around the world. So And some of these issues, by the way, some people have said, what happens when you run out of topics? I don't think we'll ever run out of topics. That's number one.
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But on the other hand, we could go back and revisit some of the topics as well. Yeah, Sheridan.
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Yeah. And, and, and to the research, the background research idea, um, Fortunately, you guys, you give us good statistics on where things are at on certain topics, if we can have the statistics, if they're available. And then we make them available to the listening audience on our website. So believe me, the topics or the ideas that come out of the research, believe me, are just fantastic.
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the tip of the iceberg on most of these subjects that we deal with. You know, we had Jan Malcolm on, remember? And, you know, Jan was the former commissioner of health and on the concept of leadership. How is it that we deal with leadership overall? And it was really interesting when I talked to Jan about A day before, she said, I don't even know where to start.
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I said, Jan, you've been leading for many years. I said, you could do this in your sleep. And I said, not to worry. And I remember the next day she called me up. She says, you know, that was really fun because she didn't feel handcuffed as a leader. She didn't feel handcuffed. She could say what she wanted to say, maybe finally. But at any rate, she made that point.
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And I was frankly thinking about it a little bit. Prevention, chronic disease, infectious disease, et cetera, et cetera. We've done a bunch of stuff. But anyway, Clarence, why don't you start her out?
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to me that it was important to her to be able to say the things that she was able to say that she couldn't say before. Yeah, D'Andra.
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Yeah, yeah. And that's fine. Just so everybody knows, you know, from our listening audience, the research that we use is just kind of a kickoff. It really gives Clarence and I some insight some baseline information that, that we can use when we, when we, especially when we have guests on the show, you know, there was another show that we did on sleep.
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And, you know, we, we kind of take a lot of these things just for granted. Oh yeah. Sleep. Yeah. Okay. It's good for you. Well, yeah, it's good for you, but what is it that you really need to know about it in order? You know, I can tell you is as you get older and, you need, apparently you need less sleep and your sleep is often disrupted.
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Welcome to Health Chatter. And this is a special edition. It's our 2023 Health Chatter Personal Reflections. So on board today, we have a majority of our crew that's with us that's going to chime in on this show. And it'll also give us a chance to really, frankly, reflect. on everything that we've done up to this point on Health Chatter.
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We talked about things like apnea, sleep apnea, which is quite prevalent. We also had, if everybody remembers, Dr. Nico Prank, who was one of the chair people for putting together Healthy people the objectives for the nation 2030, which really put in perspective what we hope to do as a nation.
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And then we followed that up with a variety of the state plans, like I mentioned, that complemented some of the objectives for the nation. So we were hoping that just like a state of Minnesota, for instance, can complement what's going on nationwide. Yeah, Clarence.
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Yeah, and as somebody who's suffering from what I consider to be, personally, what I consider to be a long COVID symptom, namely loss of taste and smell, I was reading an article just the other day that they're anticipating that some people will have that loss for up to three years. And I'm thinking, oh, no.
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I can't taste a good piece of key lime pie or a piece of chocolate is really gonna not be fun. But we've got great shows that also focused on things like just what I would consider to be kind of like ancillary from chronic disease per se, but we looked at things like pain or people that are suffering from disabilities
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as just things that are just part of their everyday life for many people, but how we, how we deal with them. We also looked at things like CPR and how people, you know, should be trained in CPR and how to effectively use automated external defibrillators, AEDs. So, I mean, these, these topics are,
Health Chatter
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I think are near and dear to our hearts, but some are closer knit into our souls because of where we are, whether a disease that we might be dealing with specifically or what have you. I thought maybe we could talk about just for a minute some of the shows that we can be looking forward to in 2024. Okay? So to get to whet the appetite for our listening audience. So here's some of the topics.
Health Chatter
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And there's actually quite a long list. Narcissism, climate, kids' health, loneliness, poverty, infant mortality, health and traveling, which Believe it or not, it's a big issue right now. Toxic relationships, fake news, food insecurity, organ donation, shots, all the different kinds of shots.
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And believe it or not, it seems like every day there's like a new shot that's coming in you need to get vaccinated for. And so people are getting reticent on how many should I be doing and just injecting my body with. Love. Love. and passion and what it means for us as human beings.
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Stress, we're gonna be talking about weight loss drugs, which is, it's almost like a fad right now, but what implications does it have going forward? We're gonna be looking at hospice, the idea of hospice and hospice care. I think Clarence, if I'm not mistaken, clean water. Wasn't that the one that you had mentioned?
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And then also a special guest that's already been booked for early January is Patty Wetterling. And she'll be talking about all the things that she's gone through in her life since her son was abducted and killed. And she's a great colleague and a wonderful, wonderful person. So that'll be a special episode as well. Clarence.
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Fake news? Yeah. You can't hear me. Yeah, we're going to be looking at fake news. And frankly, what is the definition of it even going forward? So, you know, it's just like.
Health Chatter
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All right. I think that kind of wraps up our show on personal reflections. As I think, I'm hoping that the audience recognizes is that as much as we hope that you're learning and chatting and getting informed on these subjects, guess what? We did too. And we enjoy chatting about it. We enjoy presenting the information to all of you in an open and honest way.
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We invite you, by the way, if you have any particular subjects that you would like us to have a show on, let us know through our website. We'll get those going as well in 2024. So with that, I want to wish all of you a happy holiday season and happy and healthy new year. And we will see you in 2024. So with that, keep health chatting.
Health Chatter
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And all of a sudden, we put on our public health hats. And we're saying, oh my goodness, what implications does a war have on health? And we did a show on that. And it was quite interesting. I mean, when you think about all the things that transpire in a war, and now we have basically two major wars going on around the world.
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The implications for health as it relates, just to start with, clean water or delivery of care, et cetera, became a real issue, heightened. And that really hit home for me during that period of time. Diandra, how about you?
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And I have a feeling we're going to be doing more shows on AI as we hear more and more about it and its implications in health. But that was a recent show. So Erin, I know that you've been connected with some of the shows, for sure, besides doing some of the background research. But which ones really kind of hit home for you that you can recall?
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Yeah, I mean, he was really good, you know, and I remember we had to book him way in advance. So it was nice to hear. Matthew. Which ones hit home for you?
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So it should be fun, and it should be a nice review for all of you, our listening audience. We have a great crew. I always introduce them because they're special to Clarence and I. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sharon and Nygaard all do our background research for us and do a superb job. Sheridan also provides some marketing expertise.
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Yeah, ironically, it was one of my favorite ones as well. It is interesting what we use pets for, I mean, besides companionship, but they also help you on a lot of different things. They tell you through their eyes, it's time to go for a walk, and all these good things that they bring into our lives. So yeah, that was a good episode. Sheridan, how about you?
Health Chatter
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Any particular episodes that really kind of hit the mark for you?
Health Chatter
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There's been a couple of episodes that Clarence and I did just by ourselves. And besides the fact that logistically it's a little bit easier, you don't have to link in a guest, but I really liked the episode on trust. The whole idea, and you know, when you think about all of these different subjects that we've talked about over the course of the year, there is a trust component in all of them.
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And whether that starts with your primary care physician or how you interact with the medical health field, how you trust one another as friends, colleagues, family. I thought it really had a strong, strong message to it. Clarence?
Health Chatter
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And then, of course, there's Matthew Campbell. Without him, none of these shows would get out to you in the great form that they are with a little bit of music attached. So we thank him for all his production expertise. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, who's my co-host. For all these shows so far, we hope that we have many, many more coming up in 2024.
Health Chatter
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Right. And appreciate it, you know. I will say this. It's like I think in in one show or another, I can't remember which one I might have mentioned the idea of the illusion of immortality. And, you know, obviously, when you're younger, you don't think you don't think about being mortal or dying because it's. way down in the future.
Health Chatter
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But then you look at, you know, Clarence and I, I mean, we're closer to it, you know, just by virtue of our age. And it does provide a perspective. It really, really does. But a worthy one, definitely a worthy one. We dealt with hard subjects. Mental health issues was, we did a couple of shows on mental health. We did shows on a variety of chronic diseases.
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And, you know, it's just kind of easygoing kind of poo-poo on chronic diseases. But guess what? That's what's hitting us, whether it be heart disease, where we did shows on. Um, we did a show on the, uh, on the state plan for, for heart disease and, um, and diabetes and also on, um, on cancer. We also, and we will be soon doing a show on the asthma plan.
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Again, this is for the state of Minnesota, but we hope it also, the ideas of the subjects that we talk about have implications for the listening audiences in other states as well.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And Clarence, I'll let you introduce our illustrious guest.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is how to navigate the health system with a very, very special guest. I'll let Clarence introduce her in a minute, so I'll keep you all guessing who she is. But in the meantime, I'd like to really thank our great background crew. And we really have a crew that's second to none. They work really, really well together.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So let me ask, so, you know, it's like, for those of us who have been, you know, in healthcare for a while, we're kind of aware of this craziness. And we hear stories like we had, you know, one of our other shows was with Catherine Standifer who wrote Lightning Flowers, who had a very similar situation. She had a very, very serious heart condition
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
and here it is she had to navigate you know through all of this all right so same by the way a great book um so you know you get to a point where all right we all kind of know or are kind of at least aware of the problem or problems Where do we start to try to get this thing solved already? You know, it's kind of like enough already. It's created so many headaches.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
What, in your opinion, Melissa, might be the road to a good solution here?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Right. So I want to talk about what's, what's come out of your, your, your information here is the concept of trust and the concept of protocols. So let's talk about trust for just a second. Again, we had a show about trust. All right. Which I, again, I think is, is frankly one of the solutions. I really, really do. If for, I'll give a, for instance,
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
About, oh, I don't know, three, four months ago, I had to get in to see my internist, okay? I called to make an appointment. You can't get in to see Paul for, you know, six months. And I'm thinking, what? This is, you know, come on. So you know what I did? I wrote a note directly to my internist, who I've known for a long time. He writes me back, Stan, give me two hours and I'll get back to you.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Within an hour, I get a call from, you know, the scheduling person. You know, Dr. Gottlieb, we'll see you, you know, next week. Well, okay, so I have a good, trusted relationship with a physician. That isn't true with everybody.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And I think, I might be wrong, that a good, trusted relationship, one way or the other, like with this second clinic that you went to, that would increase trust, for God's sakes, you know, for your care. So I think trust is one aspect. What do you think about that? Is that?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, but I really think that that's, part of a solution for this big, humongous problem that we have. If people like any one of us individually established a trusted relationship with their provider, that in and of itself will help you to navigate. I think, I guess maybe I hope. So the other question I have for you is this, is this whole idea of protocols.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So, you know, you're in the quality improvement arena. Ironically, my daughter is too at Dana-Farber in, you know, cancer institute in Boston. She's a quality improvement engineer. And this is what she said to me. God, it must have been a month ago.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
She says, Stan, you know, it gets really frustrating trying to do quality improvement in the health arena because everything is established under the guise of protocols. And if indeed you're trying to improve care or what have you, the first thing that they do is look at the protocol. And try to change the protocol, which God knows takes how long. So I'm sure you've had some experience with that.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So if I sense what you're saying, it's for us as consumers, I guess is the best way to describe us. Knowing how I guess how to ask the right questions or just ask what you believe are the right questions and don't be intimidated by it all. Because all the stuff that's done for acute treatment and disease management can be really overwhelming. And yet, It's on us.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
It really should be on us to ask the hard questions. And I don't think people do that.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so Clarence to your point. You know, I think about like in a children's hospital, I can guarantee you that nine times nine kids out of 10 would be happy when they're in the hospital. If you gave them an ice cream cone, right. Okay. That's right.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Adults, too. Absolutely. But on the other hand, we've got the medical condition to to attend to. So I think if if I'm not mistaken, there's a balance. There's a real a real, real balance there. in that kind of question that you're talking to.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I do know from based on my experience dealing with, you know, the orthopedic patients I see, they greatly appreciate talking to somebody who's gone through it. Okay, so like, you know, an orthopedic surgeon who replaces a knee, you know, standing there doing the surgery, but guess what? They don't have a replaced knee themselves.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So they've never experienced, they've heard about the pain and they've treated patients with pain and the discomfort of it, but they can't empathize with it. So then when I go in, somebody who's had a knee replacement, I talk to a patient, they're so grateful. They're absolutely so grateful.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I mean, that makes them happy because they're getting some good information from somebody who's been down the path. Okay. And I think that may, so my response to you, Clarence, is a balance. Ice cream and, you know, good care.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So, you know, I keep saying, you know, a lot of things under this umbrella, um, it's easy for us to maybe say we've got communication issues. Okay. Which, which we do not only in this, but in a million other things. Um, however, you know, being, being solution oriented, if we can for, for, for a minute, um, Let's play this one out.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
If somebody's got to go in for a procedure, you could probably think of your son, for instance. He's got to go in for a procedure. Well, automatically, everybody's stress level is heightened. What is it, based on your experience, what is it that would have been really good
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
for you to hear or be aware of before one of your son's particular procedures that would have really helped you to keep that stress level down, which obviously that is going to help your son, you know, et cetera. Can you reflect on that a little bit?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Or is there a system set up to to do something like that? That seems like a no brainer to me. Right. I don't know. There are certain programs that do, like in the cardiovascular arena, there's some programs that are called mended hearts. For somebody who has gone through heart surgery, for instance, and somebody who is facing it, they connect them. Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, or minimal. All right, so... Clarence, how do we get the gestalt around all of this? I mean, it's just like, okay, navigating the healthcare system. Oh my God. You know, just by saying that, you know, it increases your blood pressure. God knows how much. What should we be telling everybody out there in the listening audience?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Well, I'll tell you, I don't know if we've solved anything. We've certainly put the issues out in the forefront. And I hope our listening audience realizes that you don't have to sit on your thumbs. You really don't. You can be an active participant in your own care, in the care of your loved ones, et cetera, and feel that you shouldn't be intimidated. Ask the right questions respectfully.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
That's fine. It shows that you care in the sense that you hope that they care as well. Clarence, last thoughts.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, I want to thank you as well. It's like, you know, personally, my takeaway from a show like this is it's okay to ask. It really is. Don't just assume, okay, you know, it's okay to say why or ask why or question something every once in a while. Or it is okay to be an advocate for a loved one. I mean, don't think that you have to be intimidated by doing that. And I think the more we say it,
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And the more we as consumers hear it and the more the healthcare providers and the health systems hear it, perhaps and hopefully we'll be on the right page together.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You are an absolute gem. And we thank you so much for being part of our show. Exactly. To our listening audience, we hope to get this show out ASAP. So stay tuned and watch our Health Chatter website for that. In the meantime, we have more great shows coming up, so stay tuned for them. Everybody says, you know, what happens when you run out of topics in healthcare?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Believe me, I don't think we have to worry. So with that, everybody, everybody out there, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Sometimes when somebody can't do something, the other one picks up the ball and runs with it. So it's really, really good. And it makes our life, Clarence and my life, a lot easier in getting a successful health chatter show out to all of you. So thank you to Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard,
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, yeah. You know, so I've got a couple of interesting, you know, as I think about navigating the health system, It seems to me kind of an analogous situation in my mind is when any of us go like on an airplane, everything is out of our control. Here but the grace of God, we hope that this pilot and the co-pilot knows what the hell they're doing. Now, let's think about the health system.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Same thing. It's like when we have to get in to get some kind of care, whether it be for chronic condition or what have you, we're out of control. We hope that whoever it is at any given time really knows what they're doing. And at that point, correct me if I'm wrong, we don't even think about insurance because we're sick or somebody that we're attending to is sick and needs attention.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So talk to me a little bit about that. You know, it's like this kind of sense of loss of control when we really need assistance, medical assistance.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And Sheridan Nygaard for doing all our great background research on all our shows that give us some good talking points and things that sometimes Clarence and I would never think of. And so that's very well appreciated. Matthew Campbell is our production manager. Sheridan also does our marketing as well. So thank you to her. And thanks for doing our show today as well, Sheridan.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, and the whole thing, you know, besides the care side of the equation, okay, where you're kind of, you know, at the mercy of the healthcare providers, then there's the other side of the equation navigating this health system, which is so damn confusing. It's just like, you know, even for those of us who are in healthcare care. Okay.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Some angle of it doesn't matter where, even for us, it's just like, my God, you know, it's like, it's just insane. I'll give you a perfect illustration. So, you know, I, I see orthopedic patients after they've had knee surgery and here's just a little microcosm of what I think is just crazy.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
There are these machines that they use to provide iced water around a person's knee, a machine, electric machine, okay? And you ready? The patients can rent the machines. And I'm thinking, you know, and I've talked to these patients and I've said to them, I said, isn't it sad? Isn't it just sad that your insurance just doesn't cover this machine for, you know, two weeks while you need it at home.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
It's $75 a week. Okay. To rent it. And I'm thinking, think about the complicated aspects for a patient who's at the mercy of everybody because their knee is killing them at that point and they want to use this machine. So what do I say? I say, you know, you've come this far, just rent it. If you can afford it, just do it because your recovery will be quicker.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And then, of course, there's my great partner in crime, Clarence Jones. He and I have a great time doing this together. We've learned how to chat a lot better over all of these shows, but it's been really fun. And we really, really appreciate all of our guests that have been here. an integral part as well. So with that, we're going to get the show moving today, navigating the health system.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
But again, it's just like all these little dumb things that drive us all nuts. And it creates stress, I think too. So, and that's the point I want to take up with you. It's like under Who cares? How do you kind of monitor stress?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And frankly, neither one of us knew what the hell we were doing, but we thought it would be kind of exciting in a new way to effectively communicate with the public around a variety of health issues. And I remember Clarence saying to me, well, let's just do it. I mean, it's just like, and of course, you know, my reaction is, well, what do you mean just do it?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Well, you know, thank you. You know, one thing that kind of came to mind when you were speaking, Matthew, is how interconnected all of these subjects are in health. all of them have some impact for all of us. Doesn't matter what the subject is. It might not be touching you directly, but knowing about the subjects even indirectly is important. So thanks. Diandra.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, and you bring up a really important point, you know, it's okay to disagree and you can still be civil to one another and learn from one another. And I think that certainly has been true with Health Chatter. All right, Barry. So Barry was brought on as our medical advisor. Clarence and I realized that at some point that, excuse me, we aren't, you know, physicians.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
We come at it with a public health lens. And many of the topics had clinical aspects to them where we say, boy, wouldn't it be good And it turns out that Barry was on our show. How many shows did you do, Barry, with us? Was it three shows?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, of course, you know, there's a lot of logistics to it all. But his excitement really underscored us going ahead with it. So Clarence, your initial thoughts.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Yeah, okay. So there were three shows that he did with us. And we said, boy, you know, Barry would be really good. So, again, I remember having breakfast with Barry and Clarence, and it was kind of like, Slam dunk. Let's just do it. And Barry said, hey, yeah, let's give it a try. And it's been going strong. So, Barry, thanks for your insight. So your perspectives on this so far.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. It's a special show. Actually, all our shows are special, but this is a celebratory type of show because we are going to celebrate our 100th show today. And we're going to be talking with all of us who have been involved with Health Chatter for the last, oh, what, two and a half years, two and a half plus years. So it's been a wonderful ride.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
There's always been an ongoing list. Our listening audience should know that we have an ongoing list of topics And it's also interesting, and I'm sure all of you can reflect on this a little bit. There were, you know, many of our shows we have guests, but then it got to the point where we said, you know, some of these shows, let's just have us talk about this.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And there were a few of those, and those were quite engaging as well. I'd be remiss in not... recognizing human partnership. And to that point, I want to circle back to Clarence and have him share a little bit about human partnership as our sponsor and how they are involved.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, I think human, just so everybody knows, is spelled H-U-E-M-A-N. And, um, I was always drawn to, to the idea behind that. And in the idea that, you know, it doesn't matter what color your skin is. We all have health issues that, that we need to talk about and be aware of. And so, um, thank you to human partnership.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
They've been a wonderful, wonderful partner, um, and engaged with, um, with health chatter, you know, um, one thing that, that I've realized, you know, okay, so yes, you know, I'm, I'm retired, but on the other hand, um, I see health chatter as a really interesting, engaging way to have continuing education, uh, to be update updated on many of these issues that, um, we still, we still face.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And, um, I don't know about you guys, but I'd, I've really learned a lot. And I reflect on doing some of these shows where I sit back and I just listen and say, wow, you know, I never thought of it, whatever it was, that way. And in many ways, it's been very, very special.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
One thing I'd also want to bring up is, you know, it was really easy on the front end to just think of health chatter as the alpha really oriented issue, whether it's a chronic disease or infectious disease, but we also got involved in a lot of, um, of a lot of other issues, social issues, um, gun violence. Um, I remember as one, we got into the ideas of, um, racism and antisemitism. Um,
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And mental health, we did a whole series of shows on mental health issues. And so it's like how all these things kind of interplay. We did a show on poverty, on homelessness. So they're all intertwined and we've learned much, much, much. Going forward with... With Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
We have topics that, first of all, you in the listening audience, if you have some ideas that you'd like to hear about or chat about, feel free to let us know on our website, which is healthchatterpodcast.com. By the way, circling back, you can check out Human Partnership at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
But some of our shows coming forward are going to be focusing on climate, veterans' health, children's health, reproductive rights. We'll probably land up doing another show on what we'll call shots, okay, or vaccinations. And there's a lot of them. The idea of love and passion. We want to look at issues surrounding men's health, women's health.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Yeah. You know, you have always carried the torch of how is it that we can just have some open, honest discussions, conversations about all these topics in, in health. And, and in a way that people feel comfortable and can ask questions and become knowledgeable about these particular subjects. And I don't know about you guys, but I've certainly learned a lot.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
um, long-term care insurance, um, planned parenthood, um, as, as an organization that we can, uh, we can discuss stress and anxiety, um, LGBTQ. And like Aaron said, uh, we'll be doing a show on, uh, on cannabis. So again, the list keeps expanding. So, um, To you, the listening audience, thank you. Thank you so much for being part of our journey for our 100th show here.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
It's been special to us, and we hope it's been special for you as well. So for all of you out there in listening land, keep health chatting away. Thank you.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
I also have to thank the School of Public Health at the University of Minnesota. Without them, we would not have been able to identify our, our gang who, who basically all we did, Clarence and I, all we did was we put out a notice, Hey, is there anybody at the school of public health that might be interested in being part of developing and doing a podcast? And, Oh my God.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
I don't know if you remember Clarence, but we got a lot of interest. I mean, it was, I mean, it was hard to go through all the different resumes and letters of interest, but I will tell you this, that the people we defined, it really was not hard to say, boy, they really rise to the top. And you could just tell that their minds were always clicking
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
that they had opinions of their own that we knew would add to the show. And maybe more than anything, they had the energy and also the talent to be able to do some of the things that we knew had to be done. So it was really a treat to get them all. I'm going to go around the horn here a little bit.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
One of the things I'd really like us all to consider here is where we have been and where we hope to go next.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Thank you to everybody. And and I can't underscore this enough by saying that without our crew behind the scenes and also who are part of our podcasts from time to time, we would not be where we are now. They are really second to none and wonderful, wonderful people. So Maddie, Levine Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, Barry Baines. Thank you.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, thank you. You know, one thing I could say for sure, Sheridan, is you for sure, and others as well, but you for sure have brought in life experiences and a personal sense of passion to our shows that I greatly appreciate. For all of you, I know that there are some personal things that you are willing to share on some of these shows.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Like for instance, Aaron, I remember when we were doing our shows on diabetes, and you are really connected with that topic for sure. Just death and dying, I remember, Sheridan, you were involved with that. Relationships, I know, you know, Maddie, you've been involved with that. And so it's like everybody's got passions that they're willing to share, which I greatly, greatly appreciate. Clarence.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Thank you so much for everything you've done for Health Chatter up to this point. And of course, there's Clarence. And, you know, I keep thinking back, Clarence, when you and I met over breakfast and we were just talking about this show, the possibility of even doing a podcast.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Thank you. You've been a truly special member. For our listening audience, Maddie started out here where we record in Minneapolis, Minnesota, but now lives in Chicago and is still intimately involved with our shows. One thing I've come to realize is that as we've developed the shows over these years, everybody falls into a particular niche of responsibility, and they're really good at it.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And so, you know, thank you all for that. So Erin, are you there?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
exciting episode as well so although we've done hundreds now of episodes there's still so much more that we can touch on and um that is really exciting thank you again um aaron you know you've been on since since day one and um you're a great great team member let's go to um How about Matthew? Matthew is our production person.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Without him, the shows would not get out to you, the listening audience, all the editing, putting in music, making sure that everything is clear. Matthew is second to none. So Matthew, take it away.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Health Shatter. And our show today is on stroke and hopefully not having one. That's the idea. That's hopefully the final takeaway of the show. We have a great guest with us today, a really great colleague of mine. We'll get into that in a second. I'd like to highlight our great crew. that, frankly, without their expertise, Clarence and I would be lost.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And they're our sponsor for Health Chatter and many, many thanks to them. You can see everything they do and get information about them at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, of course. So here's an interesting comment. A lot of people are reticent to call 911 or go in an ambulance or this type of thing. Some people even, you know, elderly people will often say things like, you know, an ambulance is really for a real, real bad emergency. Okay, a real bad emergency somewhere, you know, there's whatever.
Health Chatter
Stroke
But, you know, I'm just, you know, myself, you know, it's no, you know, I'll get to the hospital if I need to, et cetera. Our point, one of the major points so far in this discussion is that's not correct, okay? What's correct is, 911 is for any kind of an emergency, and this is an emergency. Get in, and you know what? Worry about all the expense stuff later.
Health Chatter
Stroke
You know, that could be all siphoned out, okay? Expenses aren't life-threatening. What are life-threatening are the symptoms that you're having at this particular point. All right, so we've kind of been focusing our conversation on identification and acute treatment let's go into the another theme here of stroke and namely Prevention. So, all right.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So nobody's, let's just say for a moment, whoever's listening, you're not, you don't have any symptoms and all this kind of good stuff, but how is it that we can truly prevent a stroke?
Health Chatter
Stroke
things to say and how we can all help each other around many, many issues related to health. So again, thank you. Thank you to Human Partnership. So, all right, today we're going to talk about a subject that's actually in my career was near and dear to my heart, although this has more to do with your brain. It's called stroke. We're going to look at, we're going to talk about
Health Chatter
Stroke
prevention, acute treatment, disease management, community initiatives, et cetera, with a great colleague of mine, and I have to really underscore this, Dr. Haitham Hussain from the University of Minnesota. Boy, I don't even know where to start. We've been involved in a lot of things, and I really have to underscore
Health Chatter
Stroke
So here's, you know, just so everybody is clear, oftentimes, Mark, we talk about cardio vascular disease. Okay. And what basically what we're dealing with is heart disease. And in this case, brain disease, if you, if you want to look at it that way and most people, when they think of cardiovascular, they only think about heart, but the vascular part is really connected to heart disease.
Health Chatter
Stroke
and brain and the risk factors are complimentary for both both arenas. The thing is, is that as you age, and you mentioned this, there are certain things that are frankly inevitable, there are certain things that are going to catch up with you one way or, or the other in and in keeping having consistent trusted care is also a major component for prevention. And not to compromise on that.
Health Chatter
Stroke
You should have a yearly checkup as you get older. If you're on medications, you need to have medication management, um, and assessment. Um, yes, taking your, your blood pressure more often than you did perhaps when you were in your forties, um, et cetera. So here's one thing I want to really kind of focus on. Have things gotten better?
Health Chatter
Stroke
So let me give you a, for instance, um, you know, when I was heading up the cardiovascular unit for years and years, um, what was known as the stroke belt of the United States, okay? And so for everybody, it's kind of a swath that runs from approximately Georgia, the state of Georgia, swinging down southeast and going west, almost as far as Texas.
Health Chatter
Stroke
your commitment to really providing insight and help and perspective around this subject. It's second to none. I just found out from Hytham that he's presently the president of the American Health Association in Minnesota here. And so thank you for that as well. But originally, just for our listening audience, Dr. Sane was originally from Egypt, where he attended medical school.
Health Chatter
Stroke
First question out of the gate, Haitham, has the stroke belt changed? If so, has it gotten better? Do we still have a stroke belt where the incidence of stroke, well, those years I was involved, was much higher, et cetera. Talk to us a little bit about the stroke belt.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So what's going on? What's going on in this stroke belt if nothing has really changed? What's going on down there?
Health Chatter
Stroke
And his first neurology residency at Ein Shams. Am I correcting that right? Am I pronouncing that right? Ein Shams University in Cairo. And then moved to the United States and did a residency here at the University of Minnesota. He's a second to none doctor. clinician and educator and researcher.
Health Chatter
Stroke
um, Hytham Clarence and I did a, um, a health chatter show on trust. Uh-huh. You know, and, um, One of the major themes that came out of that is it's important to have a trusted provider of care that you connect with and have access to them in order for us to at least start addressing some of these things in as a team effort between you, the patient, and you, your physician.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And if you have trust, it really, really helps. Today's environment is a lot different. You know, it's like some, some people see a different doctor every time they go in for, for care. And so that, that level of trust is never really quite built up, which I think personally, I think is an important thing in a message that we all, we all can do.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So here's, here's the, the other aspect of trust or of, of, stroke that I want to address and that's rehabilitation. So, all right. So we talked about acute treatment. We talk about prevention. Now let's say somebody has had a stroke and they're fortunate enough to have lived through it, but they've been affected by it. Okay. One way or the other. Okay.
Health Chatter
Stroke
I can only imagine if any of us, God forbid, had to have a stroke, having Dr. Saina as our physician would be really, really, really good. I don't want to have it. None of us want to have it, but not a bad doc to have to treat you. He's co-authored over 70 peer-reviewed articles and involved with contributing to textbooks, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Stroke
He was actively and still is actively involved in the Cardiovascular Health Alliance at the Minnesota Department of Health. So many, many thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Talk a bit, just a minute. Let's just take a minute about rehabilitation, rehab.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Who coordinates all of this? So let's just say, let's play it out. Let's say I've had a stroke and I've been affected one way or the other. Does it start with you? as my neurologist and then the team expands based on need or how is it coordinated so that it becomes relatively easy for the patient to move forward?
Health Chatter
Stroke
We've got a great research crew that does background research for us on every one of our shows, Mandy Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sharon Nygaard. Thanks to all of you for helping us with getting some useful information that we can talk about. Matthew Campbell is our
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, you know, for the listening audience, we do this, we record these shows on Zoom. And if you could all see us, we have a little bit of a reflection off of Clarence's head, my head, and Haitham's head. So we have something in common here. So thank you for that. Anyway, okay, so let's talk about Strump. All right.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Overall, I think what's important for our listening audience, everyone to know is this. There is good stroke care available to all of us. Okay. 911 is something that has to be in everybody's minds and don't be afraid to use it. There are good, prevention-oriented things, especially if you, by virtue of your family, are perhaps at higher risk.
Health Chatter
Stroke
But all of us can still exercise, eat right, watch our weight, watch our blood pressure, etc. And then, unfortunately, if you know of someone or yourself that has had a stroke, It's not the end of the world, okay? If you've lived through it, there are good rehabilitation facilities that can help you get back to a normal life. This show has been very, very, very good. Clarence, last comment?
Health Chatter
Stroke
You're excellent at providing clear, and concise information about this subject. And that's what health chatter is all about. So Haitham, thank you. You're a great, great doc.
Health Chatter
Stroke
We're gonna do some, I thought what might be good is to provide the audience with some basic information and then we can get kind of into the nitty gritty. So first of all, what is exactly, what is a stroke? Most people I guess will respond to it when they have one or somebody close to them has one, but knowing ahead of time what it is and what you should be aware of, I think is important.
Health Chatter
Stroke
That's the hard work. So everybody in our listening audience, thanks for listening in today. Like we tell all of our guests, we reserve the right to give you a call back. Or if you have other reasons to use Health Chatter as a venue to get some more messaging out, please, please contact us. So to everybody out in our listening audience, keep health on.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So let me, let me ask you something. All right. So, um, Of the types that you just talked about, is there one that's more serious?
Health Chatter
Stroke
So Clarence, what do you think? You know, we've all known somebody that's had a stroke, you know, unfortunately. So Clarence.
Health Chatter
Stroke
production manager who does all the logistics of technically making sure that our shows are in tip-top shape for you, the listening audience. And then, of course, I couldn't do any of this without my great colleague, and I really have to underscore that, Clarence Jones. Clarence and I have known each other a long, long time. And We still like each other for all the different things that we do.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Let me ask you something. It's like... Okay, first of all, a person wouldn't necessarily experience all those symptoms, okay? So let me play something out. All of a sudden, you lose vision or half of your vision in an eye, okay? So how do you know? How would...
Health Chatter
Stroke
We do disagree at times, but we still give each other a good hug at the end. So it's wonderful having Clarence as a colleague for our health chatter. And then, of course, there's Human Partnership, which is a community organization that Clarence is really intimately involved with that helps a lot of people in the African-American community around health.
Health Chatter
Stroke
How would a person know if it's not like, hey, I should be calling my ophthalmologist because, you know, I might be experiencing a detached retina as opposed to, in this case, a stroke. So there could be some potential confusion there.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Human Partnership is our sponsoring organization. That's H-U-E-M-A-N Partnership. Great community health organization. Recommend that you check them out when you check our website out. Their website is humanpartnership.org. And ours on Health Chatter is healthchatterpodcast.com. So thank you to everybody. So Clarence, you've got a great colleague that is going to be with us on this show today.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Yeah. So let me, you know, I've got a couple of thoughts here. You know, when we're dealing with youth, I mean, we brought this up in a previous show, and we're talking about prevention. It always dawned on me that for youth, they have this illusion of immortality. You know, it's like, okay, you're going to tell me I'm going to get, you know, cancer or heart disease when I'm
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
you know, whatever age. And in the meantime, you know, leave me alone. I like to enjoy, you know, smoking away with cigarettes. So there's that component. I'm really curious about norm changes. So for instance, let me give you like a situation like seatbelts. I remember, you know, growing up, um, seatbelts weren't in our cars at all.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I mean, you know, as kids, you know, we were thrown in the car and, you know, and, you know, and hopefully we were somehow or other safe, but norms have changed with regards to, to seatbelt usage where, um, People wear their seatbelts. There are laws. There are buzzers and bells in cars that remind you to buckle up, et cetera, et cetera. Now, if we look at tobacco usage, have norms changed?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
You mentioned that to a certain extent, maybe it hasn't gotten any worse, but it hasn't maybe gotten any better. But have norms changed around the usage of tobacco? That's my first question.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Barry, I'm sure you can chime in on this one, but when the Surgeon General's report came out, there were connections of tobacco usage with cardiovascular disease, with cancer. I mean, we'll just pick those two. And I just wonder, and Barry, maybe you can reflect on this a little bit, how it is that
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
health professionals, medical professionals grabbed hold of that information and applied it to their treatments and insights for their patients. In other words, all of a sudden, boom, we have this major thing that's connected with chronic diseases. How is it that physicians embrace that in order to help affect change around smoking?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on tobacco and some tobacco research, which, you know, it's unfortunate. I'll add this quick comment. It's unfortunate that we're still dealing with tobacco as a really major health issue. But lo and behold, it's still with us. We have a great guest with us. I'll get to her in just a second.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Thank you. you know, so let me, you're a psychologist. I mean, you know, your background is in psych, mental health. And, you know, I, I remember where, um, you know, I saw colleagues smoking under stress, you know, it's a stress. It was connected with stress. Um, Are we still seeing that type of manifestation, the linkage between smoking and mental health vis-a-vis stress?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I'm interested in... in visual cues as it relates to smoking. So let me give you what comes to my mind. It's like, um, when you see movies, for instance, where there, um, there are, um, prisons and, you know, prisoners are, are smoking or they want to get cigarettes from, from one another. Okay. Or, um, War movies, you know, where military, you know, they're in bunkers or what have you.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
And, you know, they're sharing, you know, cigarettes or they're getting cigarettes. Or prisoners of war. You know, it's like, you know, it's like... get me a cigarette. So, you know, I, I just wonder, you know, if these, these kinds of, and I'm sure there are many, many others. I'm wondering if these visual cues are, are still with us and are having an impact on, on usage.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
So when you think about, okay, let's go back again to the Surgeon General's report that came out years ago. And every 10 years since then, healthy people, the objectives for the nation come out. And every year that certainly I'm aware of, there are objectives for the nation, addressing tobacco usage and also prevention oriented activities. So
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
What's your sense historically, I guess, year in and year out, if you were to come up with a new objective for the nation, what would be on your list right now? I mean, if we're going to really make an impact, a better impact than perhaps than we've done, what objective would you, based on your research and your clinical insight, what objective would you come up with?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
You know, Barry, you probably can, can respond to this a little bit too from a, uh, a medical perspective. You know, I, I think of, you know, when, when you were speaking here, um, Christy, it's, it's, you know, we as humans have these, what I would dub turn to products, you know, what do I need to do?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
You know, what do I have to turn to in order to decrease my stress, decrease my anxiety, whatever. Okay. Um, or to be cool, you know, you know, think about it. We, we, we turn to things like tobacco. We turn to things, alcohol, um, We turn to medications. We turn to, you know, meditation, you know, might be a turn to type of thing in order to decrease.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
So did you, you know, maybe both of you in your practices, have you seen Changes in what I just dubbed turn to types of things that we as human beings turn to in order to make us feel better, in order to decrease stress, in order to whatever. Some people might say the hell with it. I'm going to go shopping for new clothes or something.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
There are feel good things too, right? I mean, you know, just, I mean, this makes me feel good. You know, for me, it's not smoking or alcohol. It's a Snickers bar, you know,
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
i don't want to eat too many of those but but i think you know maybe you know from your perspective you can you know from mental health we don't we turn to these things like smoking as as crutches maybe to make us you know do you see more and more of that or are we seeing less of it or turning to different things
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I mean, on one hand, I'm happy that we still have great researchers that are engaged in the subject of tobacco, its use in prevention. I'm happy on that hand. I'm sad that we still have to deal with it. You know what I mean? Woe these years. But it might be something that we just have to, from a health perspective, we just have to accept that it's going to be kind of around us.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
And it's like, how do we navigate going forward? So, you know, Dr. Christie, last words, last comments, things that you really want us, the listening audience to be aware aware of?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I'm going to link to the history and I'll reflect on Clarence's thoughts. He smoked cools. That wasn't cool. I'll leave everybody with this comment. It's not cool to smoke. It really isn't. It's not... good for you. And if you need help addressing it, there are great health professionals that can help you to address the problem that you might have. Thank you for being with us.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
We really look forward to if there's more research coming out that you'll tap us on the shoulder and say, hey, I want to be on your show so I can tell about some new findings. So thank you so much. Greatly appreciate the work you do and your willingness to be on our show today. For our listening audience, we have a great show coming up on vaccinations. Imagine that.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
It's kind of like vaccination season. And so we thought it would be timely to have a show on, okay, where do we sit with all the different kinds of vaccinations? And hopefully people aren't getting kind of lackadaisical about getting vaccinated. So that will be our next show. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Yeah. I want to go back and ask this question again. You know, it's interesting. I, you know, when, you know, when we go back and you mentioned the surgeon general's report, I can't remember, it was in the seventies sometime, but that's a long time ago. I mean, you know, and we, we were dealing with, you know, we identified tobacco as a major health concern and, and,
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
historically, there were many, many things that were done. Like I remember when, for instance, back then when the Twins played in the Metrodome, it became smoke-free. And there were smoke-free places that were determined. And a lot of different activities have gone on. Yet, it's still with us. I mean, and it's a major health concern. So have we made any strides at all?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
As always, we have a great crew that makes all these shows successful and interesting. We have a research crew that includes Maddie Levine, Wolf, Aaron Collins and Deandra Howard. Our production team. Person is Matthew Campbell does all the logistics, the recording and gets the shows out to you in great form with a little bit of music to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I mean, besides people knowing that, yeah, it's not good for you to smoke, but I smoke anyway. You know, I mean, what's going on here? Why is it that it's still with us the way it is?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
We also have Sheridan Nygaard with us and she does some background research for us as well as some marketing. And then of course, We have Clarence Jones, who's my great co-host and partner in crime when we do these shows, and Dr. Barry Baines, who provides us with a medical perspective on all our shows. So thank you to all of you. You're second to none.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Are we at the same place? Or do we just assume that we're all going to die from something? And guess what? Those happen to be, you know, for human beings at this stage of the game, at least, cancer, number one in the state of Minnesota, then cardiovascular stroke, diabetes. Are we just going to deal with it like that going forward? And I'm talking from an epidemiological standpoint now.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Yeah, what do you think, Courtney?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today is, in my estimation, a special edition because we're going to be dealing with two subjects, namely cardiovascular health and diabetes as it relates to a new disease. brand new state plan that's being published or was published just a couple of days ago in the state of Minnesota. We have two great guests with us.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You can visit them at humanpartnership.com. Org. Yeah. I always get that wrong, don't I? Yeah. Dot org. Humanpartnership.org. Check them out. Great community organization. So with that, let's get into our great people that are with us today. And that includes two colleagues I've worked with for a long time. Dr. Courtney Jordan, bachelor who's got her MD, actually got all of her trainings.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, what's linked to it, and Claire's I'll get to in a second, is just the idea of it's a balance in my mind between urgency, which we're seeing in a lot of situations, and motivations. Motivation is a key, not only from an individual standpoint, but also a community standpoint in order to engage in essence, in this case, around a plan. Clarence.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
at the University of Minnesota, her medical degree, her degree in public health and epidemiology and public policy. She's board certified internist, cardiologist, and is involved in a lot of different things way beyond, frankly, just the field of cardiology. Her insights and her passion to try to affect change to make us all healthy is really second to none.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, it's interesting. You know, it's a really good example of... People are really engaged with things that are really urgent in their mind. And if you show them first and foremost that, all right, let's tackle that. then they could be open to a true partnership in dealing with all the other stuff that we also have to address health-wise.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
But I think urgency for a lot of people is right up there. You know, gun violence. If you don't solve that in our community, the heck with cardiovascular, the heck with diabetes. Let's deal with that first, and then we'll get to it. So it might be this kind of one at a time in order to help build trust. So...
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, what's really cool to me is, you know, first of all, you have three major goals, but then you get into your outcomes and investing in partnerships, which I think we've alluded to a little bit here. It's like, you know, we've had in our show, Clarence and I, we talked about the issue of trust, right? And how it is that you build just a partnership with your primary care provider.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
I mean, you could almost use that as an illustration and maybe bring it up a notch in a community. How is it that we can build trust with one another so that we can work together in order to do these things that are outlined in the plan? A perspective that I have, is this, that the previous plans kind of created a common denominator of things that we needed to address.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And now we're really coming up the funnel, so to speak, and really addressing and hopefully addressing the things that are we have to address, you know, disparities, social determinants of health, et cetera. Clarence?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
So far, our listening audience, I'll tell you that there's, you know, there's 10 basic, what would you call it, outcomes that you're looking for here. We look at investing in partnerships. And I'll just kind of state what they are. And then you can kind of react to these kind of in the gestalt of it all. Working towards health equity, sharing power,
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
to affect change, creating systems that improve access to care, improve health data collection, which by the way, epidemiologists, I'm going to get back to you on that one in a second. Expand and diversify health care, expand health education, support the implementation of community-led programs.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Enhanced delivery of quality whole person care and ensure all people have access to the necessary resources. Okay, so Courtney and Jim, just respond overall to those outcomes that we're trying to do today.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You'll see her total bio on our website, so check it out. But just a dear, dear friend and colleague. So Courtney. Thank you for being with us. And then there's Jim Peacock. Jim and I have a great history. We worked together for many, many years at the health department in the cardiovascular unit. He started there back in 2007, wasn't it, Jim?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, it's interesting, historically, and Jim, you and I can reflect on this, good, bad, or indifferent, when you get funding mechanisms that require that you have state plans. Okay, so like from the Centers for Disease Control, they required that the state of Minnesota, in this case, actually every state in the country, have a state plan for cardiovascular and a state plan for diabetes. Okay.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And to be honest with you, the listening audience is probably the best hire I ever did. He and I were like... linked at the hip. And it's just incredible interactions that we have had over the years and from different perspectives. But his training is a doctorate in epidemiology and his master's in public health. And I always have appreciated Jim's perspective as an epidemiologist.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Then when they loosened it up altogether and they say, well, we're not requiring that you have plans, then that kind of opened up the gates for like the state of Minnesota to say, hey, why don't we all talk together? OK, and put it all together in one.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, it's, I know, I was kind of chuckling, frankly, as I was reading this plan, because I know that epidemiologists will say, will ask this very question, how in the hell are we going to measure this? Okay. And
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
I kept thinking in the back of my head, and those of you who know, I've often signed off on emails with an infamous quote from Albert Einstein, who basically said, not everything that counts can be counted. And not everything that is counted counts. So when you really think about that, that really intersects beautifully with this plan. Epidemiologists will say, hey, you know what?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
We'll still be able to report how many people died and how many people had heart attacks and how many people had strokes and et cetera, et cetera. We'll still be able to do that while hopefully the success of the plan will be inherently going forward with all these different objectives and strategies.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And then when we look at the data, we'll be able to say, geez, you know, something must be going on right here because we're seeing decreases in deaths, we're seeing decreases in strokes. So anyway, all right, so epidemiologists respond.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And he recalls this as like, it's one thing to know the data and just to present that. But he always has always carried the torch of, so what? How is it that we can, based on the knowledge that we get from analyzing all this information, how is it that we can affect And he has really, really carried that torch professionally.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, like I said, I read through this plan and in my mind, I kind of closed it and I sat back and I really felt good. And so I would encourage listeners, take 10 minutes and go through this plan because I guarantee you there will be something in this plan That will make you feel good that, yeah, this is a good direction to take. It's not as technically or medically oriented.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And I've greatly appreciated that perspective, not only working with you, but also the torch that you carry carrying on at the health department in the cardiovascular health unit. So thank you both for being with us today. All right, so let's get the ball rolling here. So, you know, I thought that, and actually both of you have been involved historically.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
It's really getting down to us and what we really need to do to affect change and make us all feel healthy. So, you know, I encourage everybody, look at it. Pick something in there that's of interest to you and see how it is that you can link with another partner to affect change. I personally think this is a feel-good plan. There's stuff in it, frankly, for everyone. Clarence.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, and all this information will be available on the Health Chatter website.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
website as well so all the all the background research and the the links to the full plan the pdf of it are also on our our website so again i i encourage you i i want to reserve and i say this actually to a lot of our guests but maybe in this case you know youtube for sure because going forward there's going to be a lot of action around this and i want to encourage you
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
feel free to use Health Chatter as another vehicle to communicate. And we'll continue to be your partner. There you go. You've got a partner, a number one partner from the plant in order to promote it and hopefully make it work. So thank you both very, very much. And thank you all to our listeners for listening in. And remember to keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
I thought maybe first to give the listening audience a perspective historically on we've had plans and what drove the creation of state plans. And mostly it was first, They were divided up, if I remember right. There was the cardiovascular health plans, and then there was a diabetes plan. But we'll get to the combination in a minute.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
But what really drove the necessity historically of creating the plan? Any perspectives on that? Either one of you can just chime in.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
We'll get to those two great people in just a moment. In the meantime, as always, I like to recognize our illustrious staff that without them, Clarence and I would be lost altogether. We have great researchers that do background research and and give us some good talking points. That includes Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Yeah. So, Courtney. Yeah. You've been involved in the history, you know, from different angles, frankly. And I always appreciated your really good direct questions that really drove the development of plans. You oftentimes hit these questions, you know, they hit the nail on the head.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
So as you reflect on the previous plans and then maybe morphing into the one that we're dealing with now, where's your head at? How do you think historically things have morphed or changed going forward?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Matthew Campbell is our production guru without his logistics. All these shows would not get out to you, the listening audience. So thank you to Matthew. And then finally, Sheridan Nygaard helps us not only with research, but also marketing the show. So thank you to everybody. Then of course, there's my partner in crime in getting health chatter out for all of you. And that's Clarence Jones.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
So one of the, one of the keys to, you know, certainly with anybody with some health education background will say that in order for, frankly, either an individual or in this sense, a community to be involved, it's one thing to show interest. It's another to show ownership and move with it. Okay. So my question is, you know, as I reviewed the plan There are great goals.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
There are great strategies. As you developed them all and were engaged with community representatives, did you get a sense that they're going to run with it? They're really going to embrace it and run with it or not?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, what we all hope is that they aren't just phrases on a piece of paper, but they're really something that people and communities, organizations can really get engaged with and excited about. Did you get that sense?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. Um, you know, we're talking, you know, to our audience out here, we're talking with two epidemiologists here, you know, who have a strong, shall we say data, strong in inquisitive Sherlock Holmes types of minds. Okay. So I'll be honest with you that the situation in the state of Minnesota isn't great. You know, it was reported in the plan that
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Clarence and I go back a long ways. He's a great community health organizer and professional. And I really appreciate his insights. I've learned a lot from him. Whoa, all these shows that we've done. So with that, let's get on to, oh, and by the way, we have a good partnership, right? With Human Partnership, who actually does some sponsoring of this show.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
correct me if I'm wrong, that there were over 8,500 residents that died from cardiovascular disease, 2,400 around that that died from stroke, 1,500 died from complications of diabetes. So, you know, woe the years that certainly I was involved in the arena. The question that remains is, is from an epidemiological standpoint, are things getting better? Are things getting worse?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Because that's what it was all about. I mean, if you're not there for that, I mean, what was your public health career all about? Right. But it was intense. You know, none of us at our age ever lived through something like that before. All we could do is go based on history of what happened like in 1918 with the flu. So here's a couple of other questions I have. How do you balance?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And this has always been a kind of an issue. How do you balance the avenues of medicine? with the avenues of public health as a leader on the public health side of the equation. Because there's always that integration that needs to be done and that collaboration that needs to be done. But oftentimes they're in their own ways. How did you deal with that?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is going to be a really great show. Actually, all our shows are great, but this takes it to another level. On public health leadership, past, present, and future, we have an illustrious guest with us today, Jan Malcolm. I'll get into her logistics in a minute. I want to thank our crew. As I always do without them, we would not
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You can check out their website at humanpartnership.com.org. I always say com, don't I?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
As you think about it going forward, it seems to me that what COVID provided us, maybe there's a silver lining in it, is a quick opportunity for lessons learned. But we have to act on those lessons learned. We have to somehow or other coalesce those lessons so that, frankly, quickly, so that we can take advantage of them before we forget what they are.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And then another thing happens, and then, oh, my God, then we're in the same ballpark again.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
.org, okay. But they're a great, great organization, and many thanks to them. So today, everybody, Jan Malcolm. Jan and I go back a long ways. I remember, Jan, when you were at Health Partners. So that really goes back a way. But it's been a great collegial relationship these years. We've seen a lot of things come and go in public health and in medicine. Jan's had over 40 years of public service
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. Clarence, and then I want to talk about chronic disease. Go ahead.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
and continues to have a great positive influence. She's gonna be leading up or maybe in the midst of leading up an initiative to address the issues of health sciences at the University of Minnesota. And I think that group has got kind of a deadline of what January to get your decisions made. So Jan, Jan is leading that effort, so thank you for that.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, it's interesting. I remember, you know, one that inspired me was C. Everett Koop. He was another, you know, a Surgeon General. And I remember distinctly, I was at a presentation that he gave and somebody asked him, and we were dealing with smoking and all that kind of stuff. And somebody asked him straight out, what should we be doing? And his answer was,
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
I thought really just, I don't know. That's up for you guys to decide now. Take this torch and run with it. So, you know, it was really inspirational, you know, from somebody who had that much clout to be able to kind of give the work off to you and be, you know, be creative and be good risk takers. So these were good people. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about chronic disease.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Let's get away from COVID because, you know, while all of this COVID stuff was going on, the pandemic, guess what? We were being affected by the stuff that affects us every day, okay? You know, we still had people, you know, having strokes and people having heart attacks and people suffering from diabetes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, cancer, et cetera, asthma,
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yet it appeared to me that certainly at that time, everything was kind of put into a holding pattern for everything else. I mean, we even saw indications of that in the hospitals where people were presenting themselves who were apparently having a stroke or a heart attack. And how did we find out about them?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
From the funeral homes because they didn't get the care they needed and they eventually died. So this is what's always struck me. And this is maybe a question that you can address for us. It's what should a state health department really be responsible for?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So in the scheme of things here, it's just like, you know, much of the funding for many of the chronic diseases, frankly, doesn't come from the state. It comes from the federal level through grants that we receive there.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
But if those grants never were, if we never got them, frankly, I could tell you from experience, we would have been in trouble as far as dealing with cardiovascular disease for the citizens of the state. So what, literally, how is it, you know, from a leadership standpoint, should... what should we be doing to assure the health of our citizens?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
How should the state be responsible for it financially, et cetera? And the bottom line is what should be the core responsibilities of public health?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
She served under three governors in the state of Minnesota, for those of you who do not live in Minnesota, Governor Ventura, Governor Dayton, and most recently, Governor Tim Walz. And it's also interesting representing two different political parties over that course of time. Wonderful health
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
policy expert that comes with great background, not only in the true government arena, but also she was involved with health partners here in the state of Minnesota, Alina Health. She was the CEO of the Courage Center here in the Twin City area. So, wow. Wow. Great, great career, great career. And recently retired, and I see a smile. So that's great.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, it's interesting. When I was teaching in this arena for a long, long time, um we often discussed you know with with students you know the avenues of medicine the avenues of public health and how how poorly funded public health has been um and and it can and then i can't tell you that was you know 30 years ago we were we were we were talking about there were more um
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And it's still, and I often said, I remember speaking to students and saying, you know what, public health isn't as sexy as medicine. You know, when somebody goes in and they're sick, and they're really sick, and somebody fixes them.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
That's pretty sexy. You know, that's pretty cool. You know, okay. But what, okay, now what do you do in public health? Well, we never could communicate it very clearly exactly what we were doing. Prevention is two kind of big picture stuff that people can't get their heads around as well. And that's still with us. That concept is still with us. Clarence, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So Jan, thank you so much for being part of Health Chatter. And really, this is a chat. And we're going to be focusing on the concept of leadership. And it's probably easier, I'm hoping it's easier, to reflect on it than to talk about it when you're in the midst of it, okay? If you get my drift. I do. You understand. So, all right. So, let's start out this way. Health leadership overall.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, it's interesting, you know, we're I think today or tomorrow the state is going to be publicly getting out their, their plan for cardiovascular disease and diabetes, their state plan. And one of the things that kind of slowed up the process was this whole idea of community engagement. Okay. So it, it turned out it was easy for communities to identify what they wanted. On the other hand,
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
getting them engaged in working with the strategy, ownership of the strategy. It's not just identifying what it is, it's like how it is, can we accomplish it together? And if you own it as a community and a good leaders in the communities understand that, then more action can come from that and hopefully better results.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
One thing, Jan, I wanted to reflect on for you is, as we're talking about plans, is, and I'm sure you're aware of it, healthy people, the objectives for the nation, 2030. Okay, so one of our dear colleagues, Nico Prank, was one of the co-chairs in developing the national objectives for the nation. How was it leading the health departments Were we engaged in that or are we engaged in it?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Or is it just a function of being aware that these objectives exist and hopefully whatever work that we do at the state can complement that? So how is it that we embraced the objectives for the nation?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So Jan, all right. So, all right. So now you've retired from, from the health department. Let's talk about just for, you know, maybe the final thoughts here. Knowledge transferred. How do you transfer your knowledge as a leader to a new leader? Or maybe not. Is it just an assumption that, okay, somebody else is going to be appointed, you know, in this case, commissioner. And thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So, you know, with all the different things that you've been involved with, give us your perspective on it. What, as, you know, as somebody who's led a lot of different things, but Truly, what is your perspective on leadership and health from all the different things you've been involved with?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. You know, I, I'm sure she knows that, you know, you're, you're as close as a phone call away. Oh yeah.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Right. It's just like, help, help me out here, Jan. It's kind of like final thoughts, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, Jan, it feels as though in many ways, we've shared a lot of history together. You know, we've gone down, you know, perhaps different public health paths, but it's always been complimentary. You know, like you were president of the Minnesota Public Health Association, as was I. And those are dear, dear colleagues that you can always count on for insight and encouragement.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
One thing I can say from my perspective to you is you always provided, whether or not you realized it or not, either directly or even indirectly encouragement to me as a colleague. And I greatly, greatly appreciate that. I I've come to realize that perhaps that is the ultimate form of leadership, is providing constant encouragement, trust with one another.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Like I always knew that if I'd get in contact with you, I'd hear from you at one point or another, I'd hear back from you or vice versa. Or if I needed insight from you or vice versa, we could get it from one another. And to me, that supersedes everything. And I want to really, really thank you as a colleague in the healthcare area for that.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. We all know how to give each other a good hug when we need it. And so thank you. So thank you for a perspective on leadership today for our listening audience. We've got many, many great shows coming up.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Our next show that we'll be doing ironically is on the new state plan for cardiovascular disease and diabetes, which will lend itself very, very nicely and compliment this show very nicely going forward. So for all of you out in listening land, Keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Be as successful as we have been. I believe this is our 66, 65, 66 show. So it's going going strong. Maddie Levine, Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard. and Sheridan Nygaard all do are responsible for getting some background research together and great talking points for both Clarence and I. So thank you to you two. Sheridan also helps us with our marketing.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
I'll tell you, when you said authenticity, that really rings a bell. It really, really does. You really have to embrace that in order for you to move ahead properly in the healthcare field. I will tell you this now. I'll let Clarence chime in. I saw you speak many, many times in many, many different situations.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And it always struck me, you as a leader, I always had this sense that you were listening ever so carefully, even in an open forum, listening ever so carefully. And getting that sense of appreciating the other point of view, which I think is an incredible leadership attribute. You don't have to agree with it.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And then Matthew Campbell is our tech guru who takes care of everything technical to make sure that these shows get out to you, the listening public. So many, many thanks to you. You're the best team ever. And then, of course, Clarence Jones is my great colleague in this endeavor. We've been having a lot of fun doing this.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
but you can appreciate at least their perspective. And then hopefully from that go forward. The one thing I can say is that I don't care what side of the aisle you're on or whether or not you agree or you disagree with people. The bottom line is we all want to be healthy. And so that's something that we all carry. Clarence, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
He comes with a really good breadth of background in community health, and I greatly appreciate your insights and perspectives. It's a wonderful partnership, and I really appreciate it. And then, of course, there's H-U-E-M-A-N Partnership, which is a community endeavor focusing on health-related issues for all of us, actually, and we hope that All of us can listen to their insights.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Thank you. No, it's interesting. During COVID, you know, I'll be honest, I was considering, you know, retiring before that hit. And then when it hit, you know, as a public health professional, and by the way, I can probably say that this is true for a lot of people, certainly at the health department. they put off retiring or they put off this or that so that they knew that they could help.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Correct. You know, so, you know, to your point, you know, Clarence, we discussed that Everybody deals with death differently. It can be in thought. It can be in tears. It can be going for a walk. It can be just about anything. And I think what we all need to realize is just that. Everybody deals with it differently. I'll give you a for instance.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
When my father passed away, I remember picking my aunt up at the airport, his sister. And the minute she got in the car, she said to me, I need to see him. my father passed away, which really struck me as strange, really strange. So I said, okay. And I drove her straight to the funeral home where he was lying in a casket. And she went in, she was in for about five minutes
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
came out and said directly to me, okay, now we can go. So that was her way of dealing with it. It was a sense of closure, I guess, whatever, but nothing should be judged when it comes to this stuff.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Right. That's how you feel. And that's great. So, okay. Let's talk about chronic and acute. Okay. So some people many people have chronic health conditions. Pick one. Cancer, just for argument's sake here. And they're dying from cancer.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And what happens, good, bad, or different, I have no way of judging this, but good, bad, or different, for the family, let's just talk about the family, for somebody who's dying with a chronic
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
disease there's a a readiness factor that plays out okay in other words over the long period of time whatever that period of time is when this person is is dying um the family has a chance to um accept it okay and um And when it happens, it's not, shall we say, unexpected. OK, in that sense. All right. All right. Not that it's not sad. Don't get me wrong.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is life lessons about death, which is kind of the opposite of health, I guess. But it's part of the health conversation for sure. And Clarence and I have some great perspectives that we're going to be talking to you about today. So stay tuned for that.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And it's just that you have had more time to, quote, prepare.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Then there's the other side, a chronic illness. excuse me, an acute condition where somebody dies, you know, suddenly from a heart attack. And boom, it's like, you know, it's the shock that comes with that. Okay. However, you know, there are pros and cons to both sides.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Yeah, and it's to get everybody thinking. And, you know, ironically... Health is, you know, health and death go together. Okay. So, and, you know, it's interesting, too, as you get older and we as human beings live longer than we did certainly in the past, it takes on different angles. And we'll get into that. All right. So... Boy, how do we get started on this? All right. So here you go.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Okay, somebody dies quickly, done, let's move on. Somebody who's had a chronic disease and it's lingering a long time has stressful aspects for the families. So, you know, I'm sure you've witnessed that, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Just a simple hug. is something that is quite meaningful. Let me tell you about something. I won't mention names. I went out with a very, very dear friend of mine yesterday for lunch, and His father recently passed away. And, you know, I told him that we were going to be doing this show today. And I said to him, I said, you know, it's interesting.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
As I think about it, it's like I didn't know his father really well. I knew him, but not closely by any stretch of the imagination. So when we went to the funeral, I didn't go there. For his father, who I might have known. Okay. I went for my friend. Right. I went for my friend, which is a different level of support. Okay. You recognize the loss and you are there for your friend. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And it's not... it's not as directly connected. So there's that type of dealing with death as well.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Right, right. So some cultures accept death a lot differently than we do here. Right, right. In some cultures, death is absolute happiness, right? I mean, it's just like, you know, and I'm not, frankly, I don't know what it is about our culture where we see it as incredibly sad, tragic, that whole thing. Or on the other side of the equation, there's cultures that are happy as hell. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
I mean, they aren't happy to say goodbye, obviously, but they're truly happy because they look at these things as reasons for celebrations of life.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Clarence, talk to me about a life lesson that you learned perhaps at a younger age, because we both had issues at younger ages where we had to address death. So let's hear your story.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting. I got to tell you a good one. So this last weekend, we were with some friends down in Wichita, Kansas, and we were sharing pictures, you know, from our lives together, you know, at weddings and all this kind of stuff. And our friend was pointing to particular individuals on these pictures. And to your point, Sheridan, She said, oh, he's dead. She's dead.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
He's dead. She's dead. You know, all these people are dead. Okay. She didn't say they passed away or they're, she was that, I guess that blunt, how we look at it. Just, she's dead. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Right, right. Yeah. So here's a couple of things I also want to bring up. Violent death or suicide. Okay, so my wife and I had a very, very dear friend that committed suicide. She literally walked... Yeah, I mean, she was depressed and she walked in front of a bus and got killed. Okay. I remember when we were both at the synagogue, our synagogue was packed, you know, because this was...
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
it was deemed really, really tragic and sad. And I remember my sense was that all these people were gathered around in the synagogue because they were trying to get their head around it. Give me some, give me something that helps me make some sense of this that happened. And, um, Our rabbi was eloquent. He said that for her, her death was like the plague of darkness.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
It was so dark for her that when she put her hand in front of her face, she could not see it. It was that dark. And you know what? That did it for me. That helped explain, give me some reason or explanation for it that I carried with me to this day. When people get that desperate, Sometimes things are so dark for them that they can't see the hand in front of their face. So that's suicide.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Then there's violent death where people get, we've talked about this, shot, gun violence, or in wars. Think about people that have shot somebody in battle. And what they take away from that, whether it's the enemy, it doesn't matter. You're still killing somebody, okay? And think of the sense that they have in their head, the ideas that they carry with them, probably for decades,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
the rest of their lives. So there's these aspects as well. So Clarence, have you been involved with or known of any kind of what I would call violent deaths or suicidal deaths.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, years ago when I first started in the field of public health, my interest was around prevention. To your point, Clarence, I remember discussing with a dear colleague of mine, Mike Bazerman, we sat in his home for, oh my God, it must've been four hours talking about this. And I told him I was really interested in prevention and health promotion.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And he said to me, Stan, the ultimate form of prevention is preventing death. Because basically what we're really trying to do by doing all this prevention stuff that we talk about in a variety of our shows is putting off death, right? Putting off sickness. But to your point at the very beginning of the show, Clarence, was guess what? It's final. It's a truism no matter what and for everybody.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, one thing I want to bring up, too, is link with another show that we did on pets. We had Dr. Nicole Heinrich on. And, you know, many of us have pets, you know, dogs, cats, whatever. And, you know, we have to, you know, at some point put our pets down because they're sick. Yeah. And let me tell you. I don't know about you guys, but for me, putting a pet down is absolutely brutal.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
On the other hand, I've taken away from that when I've done it in the past, incredible lessons learned from them. These dear pets that we all have and what they are saying to us non-verbally. And you know what? Those are things that we all can hold dear. They're really incredible, incredible lessons.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Here's the other thing I wanted to bring up is cemeteries and burials. People choose to get buried or taken care of in different ways. You know, whether you're, you could be cremated and some people feel that that's just the way it is. Some people do that because they feel it's more friendly for the environment. Okay. Some people get, get buried in very, very fancy caskets. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Yeah. I mean, it's just like, okay. And then there are others, like for instance, like my father was buried in a plain pine box. And the idea behind that in Judaism is dust returns to the dust. And that's basically it. Nothing fancy. At that point in a person's life, death, we're all the same. At that point, it doesn't really matter. Some people- I will tell you this, Sam.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Exactly. Exactly. Right, right. You know, the other thing is what people do after somebody dies, you know, like they donate to a particular cause. Okay. Somebody died from cancer. So people donate to the cancer society or the donor's choice. Okay. You know, whatever, but that's a sense of, I guess a little bit of a sense of closure for people.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Flowers is another thing that people deal with. Yeah, sharing it.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, it's interesting. For many years, I worked with youth in a psychiatric setting, actually. And I remember having discussions with kids who were suicidal. And which was, you know, it was quite sad. And, you know, I remember walking away from the hospital once and thinking to myself, wow, a lot of these kids, especially, you know, teenagers have the illusion of immortality.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And we'll get them. We'll get somebody on the show. That's a great, thank you for bringing that up. That's a great, great angle. One thing you alluded to, Sheridan, that I want to make sure that we cover is, and certainly what I found, maybe Clarence, you have too, is that when somebody passes away in your family, let's just say,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
I found a lesson that I learned is this, is that there appears to be always somebody that takes the bull by the horn and deals with all the details. Okay, while everybody is kind of mourning or crying or being upset, there's always somebody that has to tend to the details. And I remember, I was that for my father. And then it was about two weeks later that I just lost it. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, there's a lot of things to be happy about in all the things we do. And maybe one of the lessons from a show like this is that, you know, it's okay to sit back, smell the roses, and appreciate them while you can. Because once you're gone, that's the end of it. That's the end of it.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, I'll tell you, Clarence, for the years that we've known each other. Yeah. I don't know how many shows it would be for me to just list out. all the different things that I've learned from you, okay, as a dear colleague and friend, that you've brought so many different perspectives to the conversation. And I don't know how to say how much I appreciate that.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
OK, it's not going to happen to me. You know, I got many, many years in front of me, et cetera, et cetera. But yet I remember talking to some of these kids who faced death. They saw death. Somebody dear to them passed away. And then all of a sudden that so-called illusion of immortality that these younger people had was compromised. And it was a wake up call for many of them.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Absolutely. Take advantage of it when you can. Sheridan, thoughts?
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, given that this show is called Health Chatter, that is an ending note on how to be healthier, right? in the lives that we all have. So I wanna really thank all the ideas that have come out today. It was really a good show. And I hope our listening audience appreciate us. And for our listening audience, we've got great shows coming up. Clarence and I recently got together.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
We have a list of over 20 different topics that we're going to be doing for our health chatter. So Keep tuned in. Check out our website, not only the website for Health Chatter, but also Human Partnership, which I failed to mention at the front end of the show. That's one of our, is our major sponsor for Health Chatter. So with that, be happy and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
We've got a great crew that really drives us in a creative way and professional way, research way. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do our background research, along with Sheridan Nygaard, who also does our marketing for us. So thank you to all of you. Then of course we have Matthew Campbell, without his technical expertise, we would be dead in the water. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
So let me tell you a couple of things. And, you know, Clarence and I kind of share a little bit of this together. I have made a distinction as I've gotten older between a death that is sad and a death that is tragic. And let me give you an illustration. My father passed away when I was 24 years old, okay? And to me, that was, it was devastating. It was sad and tragic, okay? And I remember
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
sitting in the hearse, going to the cemetery. I was sitting next to my uncle and he put his arms around me and he said, Stan, you will have a hole in your heart for the rest of your life, but you will learn how to cope with it. And those words of wisdoms have stuck with me for a long, well, forever, okay?
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Another thing that I learned, and then Clarence, I know you have good stories on this too, was what people say to you. I believe that people, friends, colleagues, family, whatever, when you have lost somebody, they feel compelled to say something like, I'm sorry for your loss.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Whether that's said right to you in person or even through vehicles that we have now, social media or what have you, sorry for your loss. And I'll be honest with you, for me, that statement, I understand the intent. Don't get me wrong. I understand the intent, but for me, the statement became almost vacuous where it kind of lost its sense of meaning.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
On the other hand, I remember distinctly a very, very dear friend of my father's when my father passed away and he came to visit us at our house. And there were a lot of people in our home at that time. In Judaism, you do this thing called Shiva, which I can talk about later. But he came into the house and all this verbal banter was going on in our home.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And he came in and I knew this man very, very closely in all he did. was put his hand on my shoulder. He did not say a word, but let me tell you, I can still, to this day, feel his hand on my shoulder. Nothing was said verbally, but that to me stuck with me more than anything. Clarence, so things that you've gone through,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
No pun intended for this show, but he's got great expertise and thank you to all you guys. You're the best team that we could possibly have. Then of course, the best of all is Clarence. Clarence and I are having a great time doing this together. It's an opportunity that we've, we've taken advantage of that we've wanted to do for a long time is just chat about health.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, and that's a, that's a theme that, um, Dr. Barry Baines talked about when we had him on our show, um, previously on, um, living wills basically is what that's about. So, um, To your point, Sharon, yes, there's a will. In other words, what you really want. And by the way, wills are something that can change over the course of your life. Another is power of attorney.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
In other words, you don't want to leave. It's like when you die, you don't want to leave a headache with everything. And then there's a healthcare directive. And I have a little funny story to tell about that. So my son is an attorney and my daughter is a quality improvement engineer in the healthcare arena. So when Janet and I were putting together all this stuff, if we're both gone,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
So we talked to my daughter, Anna, and we said, Anna, all right, you want to be power of attorney or what do you want to be? And so she, kiddingly, she says, what the hell do I know about the legal stuff? Abram's the attorney. Let him take care of all that. He can't stand the sight of blood. I'll take care of the health care side of the equation. So that was easy.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
But for our listening audience, it's something that you really should – look at carefully and do. And it's kind of, I guess it's uncomfortable because you're thinking about these things. On the other hand, if you think about it in the positive way of not leaving a headache behind when you pass away is really a gift more than anything.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And we've been doing it now for about a year and a half. This will be close to our 60th show. So it's been, Clarence, it's been just a treat, a treat working with you. So thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, so let's get going on today's show. Life Lessons About Death.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
It's a great community health organization that does wonderful things out there, very creative. And I recommend highly that you check out their website at humanpartnership.org and ours as well. at healthchatterpodcast.com. So thank you to everybody. So, all right, let's get this show going. This is kind of an interesting concept. I'll tell everybody a little bit of a story.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
with children and youth. And it's really interesting if you ask children, and we did back then, and youth, about taking care of themselves. For instance, it's good for your heart health or it will prevent cancer or what have you. And I remember the response that I would get from these kids that, wait a minute, I'm not worried about a heart attack and I'm not worried about cancer.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I'm worried about bad breath and zits on my face right now. But it becomes more of a reality for them if they have a loved one or somebody that perhaps have died. Then they get this aha moment where it kind of kicks in where, oh, this is what people get sick from, or oh, this is what people die from. So it's kind of interesting. Clarence, I've got a question for you.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Coming from the African-American population, And I'm going to link it with another show that we've done on safety, basically, with firearms, etc. Do you sense or have you ever felt that sense of your immortality being compromised because of your safety in a community like gun safety?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
for instance, it's like, I don't think, you know, do you ever hear younger folk in your community saying things like, geez, I don't think I'm going to live until I'm, you know, 60, if I'm lucky, you know, that type of thing, just by virtue of being exposed to more violence, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
When I was working on my master's in public health, I had a very interesting conversation in the home of a colleague of mine, Michael Bazeman, and we were talking about prevention and health promotion.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
It does. Yeah. So, you know, I have a question for all of us. Do any of you have a sense of being scared of dying? Has that ever come across your minds at all?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. You know, it's interesting how we as humans immortalize people. So, for instance, one way that we immortalize people is through coins. Think about it. You know, a quarter, you know, has, you know, President Washington on it or a penny has Lincoln on it. A half dollar has Kennedy on it. So we immortalize certain people. It doesn't have to be presidents.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on the illusion of immortality, which actually links to a lot of the different health aspects that we've talked about on many of our shows. So stay tuned on this. It's going to be an interesting show with many of our crew who will be chiming in as well. We've got a great crew.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And frankly, the concept of the illusion of immortality really came out of that conversation when Mike said to me, he said, you know, when you really get down to it, when you're talking about prevention, when we all talk about prevention, what are we trying to do? The ultimate form of prevention is really preventing death. And we all know in our heads that that can't be.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
On coins, we immortalize other people as well. Yeah, Sheridan.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, we have we have different, certainly different methods in order to communicate our our thoughts about health and and. death and dying in our lifespans, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. You know, it's interesting, too, is how we today react to the diseases of our time versus diseases that took place a long time ago. So imagine just for a second, you have this idea of immortality in your head. But you're living in a time where there's a lot of infectious disease going around, like typhoid or malaria or tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria. COVID.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, okay, so that's one of our times. Yeah. And then, okay, then you fast forward. And by the way, many of those... diseases that I mentioned, and there are others, were able to be reduced down to that causative agent and we could vaccinate against it. So we provided protection in order to enhance our immortality. Then you fast forward to the diseases of our time,
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
That we're living with, you know, cancer, heart disease, where there isn't, you know, a magic bullet, so to speak. And what we have is things that we try to tell people about. in order to combine, hopefully will be some sort of a vaccination. So you take cholesterol medications or you exercise, but that combined components of these things, we call it the synergistic effect.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
There's many, many variables that are causing the disease. But if you address them all somehow or other, you're getting this new kind of vaccination that will keep you living longer.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Exercise until you're blue in the face or take this medication or that medication will help you. So we're dealing with differences today than we did yesterday.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
But there is that illusion around it that kind of drives us. And also, it drives how we respond to our health, how we take care of our health. and what we do to actually maintain it using various things. So what's interesting is the illusion of immortality or the concept of immortality is embedded in medicine and in public health.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Well, yeah. I mean, you know, it... there's always, um, a creative component to, um, trying to keep us all younger, healthier, uh, live longer. And, um, And, you know, for a lot of us that are, you know, in the public health field or the medical field, we're kind of driven by research behind it all. Okay. Just don't go with it just because somebody says it's, you know, it's good. Okay.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, I was driven by this. I was reading this the other day in the paper. Circadia bugs, you know, these bugs that come out. Yeah. Once every 17 years, they hatch and come out again. And I'm thinking, God, if we were all circadia bugs, just think about that for a second.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
All of a sudden, you come out, you take a look at the world, 17 years later, every 17 years, you come out and you take a look at the world, you say, jeez. what the hell is going on here? It's like, what did I miss by hibernating for so long here? And maybe we should adjust this life cycle that we're on because we can take advantage of some of these things going forward.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. Which brings me to this point about immortality. Life experiences and our overall experience, whether it be just life experience, work experience, or what have you, and how does it affect your perception of living? What's your sense of that, Clarence, as you've gotten older?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, for our listening audience, we did a show on legacy, basically, with Dr. Barry Baines. What's your legacy, and what is it that you want to make sure that you at least share before you leave this world? What you've learned that you think will have impact going forward for your children, your grandchildren, what have you.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. You bring up a good point. It's like we carry on our names. So even if we, even if we're gone, our name is basically immortalized going, going forward one way or, or, or the other to a certain extent. That's what, what cemeteries are about too. You know, when you go to, when you go to a cemetery, you see the names of all these, these, these people.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
The symbol, for instance, the symbol of medicine is called the caduceus, which if any of you have seen it, it's a combination of a staff, like a cane, a staff, and a serpent. The serpent is really the symbol of immortality. And it is embedded not only in the concept of medicine, but public health as well, for instance.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And, um, It causes you to reflect when you're at a cemetery about, you know, who's there and what did they bring to this world, you know, before they passed on. And we've marked them, you know, with a gravestone or what have you. And it's an interesting concept when you think about that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
By the way, we aren't the first ones to think about immortality. For instance, the classic of internal medicine that was written by the Yellow Emperor in the 4th century BCE. It's the oldest known treaty written in the Chinese language. In it, the Yellow Emperor wrote, people lived to 100 years.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Now, keep in mind that fourth century, you know, if you live to 100 years, that was a long, long, long, long time. People lived to 100 years and remained active and did not become decrepit. And then a colleague of of his Lao Tzu in the third century wrote, in the happy land that Lao Tzu describes, people were gently following nature without wrangling and strife.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Men and women wandered freely about in company. Marriage plans and betrothals were unknown. And not until the age of 100 did they die And disease and premature death were unknown. So it's like this has been going on a long, long time, this concept of living, just living a long, long time.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And you'll see pictures of this, if you go to our website, you'll see pictures of this. The first physician, according to Greek legend, was Asclepius. And in the picture that you'll see, you will see the staff, and the serpent that he's holding onto. The staff represents kind of the traveling nature of a physician. And again, the serpent is immortality.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And, you know, we as human beings are kind of unique, I guess. We have a sense of being able to think about the future, at least think about it, without knowing what the future necessarily will bring. But we also can reflect on the past. Right. Animals, you know, like my dog, they think only in the present. They don't have a sense of future and past. So for them, it's in the past. in the moment.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And maybe there's something healthy about that, where you just live for right now and just keep going. And perhaps that's why we really embrace our pets, because they have that sense and they bring that to us.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, yeah. And frankly, we'll be able to chat about this even more when new medical science comes out on certain things. Like if we saw in the paper today, just for argument's sake, that there's an actual vaccination that would prevent cancer, all the different cancers. You take this one shot and that's it. You don't have to worry about cancer anymore. Well, think about that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
It's like, wow, for how many years have we been worried about cancer and its treatments, et cetera, and disease management? And now all of a sudden, boom, we have the cure. And what implications does that have for our sense of immortality? Last thoughts, Sheridan, anything?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, it's interesting. I don't see it as as a dash. I see it as kind of a squiggly line that has its ups and downs. And, you know, as you go, maybe it should be a squiggly line. I love that. Between your birth and your death.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
How is it that a physician can help us to live forever? Interestingly enough, he had a daughter, Hygieia, that became the symbol of public health. And she too carries a snake in her hand, a serpent in her hand. Again, the concept of immortality. All embedded historically, and it's all in our minds as we perceive through life. Clarence, some of your initial thoughts about immortality.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
That's a happy note. That's a happy note to end our show with. I'm hoping that this gets everybody thinking a little bit and realizing that There is happiness on your dash or your squiggle line. And if you embrace the happiness, perhaps maybe that's what this is all about. Don't forget Maddie. Don't forget Maddie. Maddie. You there, Maddie?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, I did too. It kind of puts it all in perspective a little bit on all the different topics that we cover in Health Chatter. So we hope you, the listening audience, have enjoyed today's episode on the illusion of immortality. We have great shows coming up. Stay tuned and keep connecting with our podcasts. Until then, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, when you think about, um, Immortality. Again, I think there's a balance that we all kind of keep in our head. One is how we live life, just the process of living. And then at the same time, we kind of balance it with, call it restoration. It's like when you get sick, how is it that you restore yourself so that you can... keep going. And there's that constant balance going going forward.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
We have researchers, Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard all do excellent background research for us. Give us some ideas, give Clarence and I some ideas what to talk about on these shows. And also, Sheridan does our marketing, so thank you for that. Then we have Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, for me, I'll tell you, for me, yeah, it really hits you, I think, you know, the concept of immortality is, is struck when you lose somebody. Okay, for the for the, for the first time, or you know, even if it's, for me, you know, like, you know, my father passed away when I was young. And so that created a dent in me for the rest of my life.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And that also provided kind of a sense of mortality, okay? It's like that idea of, geez, you know, what's next for me? And I don't know if that's true of most people, if immortality or mortality is really addressed for the first time when you lose somebody.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Make sure that the shows come out clearly for all of you. There will be a show typically every Friday. So watch your favorite podcast to check in, your podcast channel. In addition, many thanks goes to Clarence Jones, a great colleague. We have a good time doing this show. And we're learning a lot. So Clarence, thank you. Thank you also to Human Partnership, our sponsor for all of our shows.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, it's interesting. That's called the fountain of youth.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Okay. So my sense is, you know, is everything... that is good or is longevity, immortality, connected to just being younger. As we get older, that's not the case. Because there are certain things that are done to extend our lifetime. Sheridan.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Correct. Correct. In the long run. Always. So I want to get to this concept of administrative costs in a second, because in this last legislative session, you know, to the legislature's credit, they said, okay, you know what, we have to get kind of our arms around this a little bit. So they required some reporting mechanisms, and we'll talk about that in a second. But
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Actually, our combined years are probably more, imagine that, more than our guests' years that he's been in the Senate, but we'll get into that in a second. And then Then, of course, our sponsor is Human Partnership, which is a community service organization that services a lot of different populations within our community in the Twin City. Actually, is it statewide clearance? I can't remember.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on, imagine this, the politics, quote unquote, of health care. I can imagine all of our different subjects that we've talked about up to this point. There's been a political aspect to all of them or a policy aspect. And we'll certainly get into that with our great guests and many of our listeners will know what it is.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And on our last show, it was interesting. We were talking about mental health and, you know, one of our guests said, you know, it's like a bowl of spaghetti. It's just like, okay. So I asked her, I'm going to ask you the same question only as it relates to what we're talking about today, policy and healthcare. If you're going to take out one noodle. Oh,
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
or two noodles out of this bowl of spaghetti that seems to be getting more and more complicated than easier. And you've been around the block for a few times and had many, many discussions on this. What are the one, two, three noodles that you would pull out of the bowl to really get us on the right track? Because God knows, I personally don't think we are on the right track.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Is it state of Minnesota? Okay, sorry about that. State of Minnesota, great partner. And it helped us with many of the logistics and background expenses as it relates to HealthShatter. So thank you very much to Human Partnership. You can look them up. It's on our website, healthshatterpodcast.com. And there's a link to Human Partnership for their website as well. So thank you to all.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Today, we're going to be talking about the politics of healthcare, and we have a really, really fine guest with us, Senator John Marty, who I'll tell you, I've known his name for a long, long time. He's been in the Senate for, oh my goodness, since what, since 1987? 1987, yeah. Wow. Okay, so let's see if I can do the math in my head. That's like 36 years ago.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So, all right. We've, we've got seemingly, we've got, we've got these things that are kind of creating angst in, in the system, good, bad, and, and, and whatever. So, for instance, administrative costs overall are absolutely crazy. I'll give you a simple illustration. I had to go in for a visit, a medical visit recently, and I got a bill. Okay, I have insurance and all that kind of stuff.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
I get a bill from the providers. Okay. On the other hand, I'm thinking, oh, wait a minute now. This is covered for my insurance. Okay. So guess what? I, as the patient, was put in the middle of an administrative nightmare, on one hand, dealing with the provider, on the other hand, dealing with the insurance, and say, excuse me, Aren't you guys talking here?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Isn't that what you're being supposedly paid to do? But the system is broken. All right. So let's talk about administrative things. One sec. And then also. The advantages that technology has also provided for us. Let me give you a for instance.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Years ago, frankly, not that many years ago, when you had a knee replacement, you were probably going to be in the hospital for a minimum of three, four, five days. Now you can have your knee replaced and actually go home, believe it or not, the same day. Okay, so from a technology perspective and a procedural perspective, things have gotten better.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
that are there, people are hospitalized less, so there is cost savings there. But all right, so on one hand, technology has grown. On the other hand, it's kind of like a double-edged sword. We're also paying for that incredible technology these days. All right, reflect on, in this legislative session that just closed up,
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
The, all the different reports that you guys recommended that for instance, the health department does or should be doing or will be doing to address administrative issues, addressing whether or not we at least maybe in the state of Minnesota, should be addressing the concept of maybe single payer. So reports that you're asking for.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Some of them have a shorter timeframe, 20, 25, 26, or what have you. Is this all in line, Senator Marty, with where you hope useful information will lead to some of the ideas that you're trying or have tried all these years to get us on the right track with.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And I will tell you this, I've been in healthcare a long time and it's not hard to notice the different areas that Senator Marty has been involved with, especially around healthcare. And I can honestly say that I can't think of one particular policy that I was on the other side of the perspective. when it comes to where he was coming from.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Administrative reports, I guess, is what we're looking at here.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Didn't they call it something like unproductive administrative?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
He's a fine, fine Senator who, in my estimation, really understands the ins and outs of what we're trying to accomplish in the healthcare arena and has done it with such grace and humility. And I must say, I would really call you a statesman when it comes to dealing with, certainly with the healthcare issues. You do try to work with as many people as possible.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So let me ask, you know, there's that blob of spaghetti for sure. Here's something that's kind of nagged at me. I was at the health department heading up the cardiovascular unit for many, many years. And, you know, if, and I'll go on record as saying this, I probably couldn't have gone on record if I was still at the health department. I can go on record now.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
If we had not received funding from the Centers for Disease Control to address preventive oriented aspects in healthcare, frankly, our whole unit at the health department would have gone away, which is really, when you think about that, excuse me, a state health department not having a cardiovascular health unit or a diabetes unit, or I can go on and on and on and on.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
It's like, okay, here's my question for you. based on all your years in the Senate, where are you guys coming from? I mean, as far as the state putting in their fair share to address community health oriented initiatives in order, and this gets to, you know, kind of the bottom line, if we prevent, hopefully we can keep a lot of people out of health care, which will keep health care costs down.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
But where's the state's initiatives in order to, in this case, meet CDC even halfway? Or for that matter- I would even argue this. It's like, okay, would Senator Marty put out a bill that says, look, if the state health department is not successful in getting their funding from CDC to address diabetes for our citizens, our state will kick in.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Our state will assure that these kinds of prevention-oriented chronic disease initiatives that a lot of people are dying from and getting sick from, the state will assure that these things would go forward. So I'm asking the question on the prevention aspects in order to address health care costs.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And I've greatly, greatly appreciated your service, woe these years. So thank you for being with us. My pleasure. So, all right. Policy and health. Okay. Where do we start? So, you know, maybe the best way to get this going is, okay, so you've been in the Senate a long time. You've seen the ups and downs and sideways of health policy.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Right. Right. You know, I, it's interesting. I, I remember testifying in front of a health committee as the, the head of the cardiovascular unit. And I was, I was laying out specifically, you know, what the data is saying. Oh, I could do it county by county. Okay. Population by population. And, and,
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
basically saying, excuse me, we've got a cardiovascular disaster going on here in the state of Minnesota. People are dying from heart attacks and strokes. And I remember one of the people in the committee asked me, well, what do you recommend, Dr. Shanling? And I said, what I recommend is that the state, you know, meet us halfway to help out. How would you go about doing that?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And I turned it around to them. I said, that's for you guys to decide. Come on. It never happened. But those are the things that we have. Frankly, where you're at, where you're dealing with is the healthcare delivery system, okay?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So Aaron, you notice here county by county data for health doesn't exist. Actually it does. We have county by county breakdowns of data, certainly by death and also by condition. Erin, you're a constituent of Senator Marty, so there's a connection there. So what might you wanna ask your Senator as it relates to all this health stuff that we've been talking about?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Oh, that's true. That's true. Yeah. It's through the health department. Yeah. Yeah.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So give us a perspective overall, historically, on where you think things were where we are now, and then maybe a little bit of a vision on where you hope to go. So past, present, and future.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So what what I can promise Clarence and I can promise is that you can use health chatter as as a vehicle to to get some of your ideas and and. and thoughts out to the public. It's another venue through podcasts that absolutely, um, we're open to that.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And, and we, and we invite you to, to, to use that, use this vehicle just for that, including this particular podcast, which, you know, we could go on and on about, about policy. My hope Clarence, I'm sure yours as well is, um, We're all carrying the torch to try to make it better.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
I think what we're all a little frustrated about is how fast those changes in the right direction are happening or should happen. And perhaps if we become more aware, the public becomes more aware of it, even through venues such as this, things will happen a little quicker. Clarence.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Absolutely. Well, I'll tell you, we could keep going on and on. I truly thank you for one word here, dedication. I mean, you've been dedicated to this arena all these years. And I know that you're committed to make it work. And I really, really do want to thank you for your insights and commitment to this subject. It's an important one.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And obviously, it's important related to all the different subjects that we do here on Health Chatter. So thank you for being with us today, John, Marty, Senator Marty. It's been an absolute pleasure. pleasure.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
For our listening audience, our next show, we're going to be addressing the issue of asthma, which is ironically kind of timely because we're also dealing with issues in our atmosphere from all the smoke that's coming down from the fires in Canada. And we're seeing an increase of patients presenting themselves into the hospital with asthma oriented conditions. So it's very, very timely.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So I appreciate that. Senator Marty, remember, We always would love to have you come back. And we probably will, given some of your ideas for the next legislative session. For those of you in our listening audience, keep health chatting always.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
I'll keep it a secret for one more minute. So stay tuned. We have a great background crew. as part of our Health Chatter podcast. Our research crew involves Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard. They do great background research and provide Clarence and I with some great talking points to ask and bring up with our guests. So thank you to them.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Our production manager is Matthew Campbell. He takes care of all the logistics. of getting our shows out to you, including putting a little music on before and after each show. It's really kind of nice stuff. So listen in on him. And he also has an announcement at the end of each of our podcasts that you should listen in on.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And then our marketing specialist is Sheridan Nygaard that helps us get the word out about health chatter in creative ways. So thank you to all of you. Clarence Jones, there are no words to describe you. You're a great colleague, friend, co-host. And we just got done saying it's been really educational just for us too, even though we've been in this healthcare field for many, many years together.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
You know, Clarence, I'll get to you in a sec. I can't help but agree with you. It's like the analogy that you use with education. It's just like everybody knows that your kids can get educated. Yes, are there some bad apples over here and bad apples over here? Yes. But the bottom line is you can get it. For many people, when you're talking about health care, that isn't the case. And that's...
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
I thought the chat show up and I lost my concentration in the screen.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Let me back you up a step. Sure. People talk about mental health. Some people talk about behavioral health.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
A little bit higher in females and males.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
There are rate limiting steps for all three of those, you know?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So for our listening audience, the West Bank is the other side of the Mississippi River from where the University of Minnesota Hospital and Emergency Department is. And there's a hospital on the other side of the river that has psychiatric units there. But as Jeff is saying, they're filled up all the time. So, all right. Does this...
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
indicate that emergency physicians like yourself will eventually have to be trained in mental health issues? Or do you just think that this is kind of a blip in what's been going on and things will calm down to where you get back to kind of a level of normalcy?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And then, of course, there's Human Partnership, which is our sponsor for Health Chatter, community organization involved in a lot of different health-related issues to get honest, good information out to you out in the public. and also deal with issues that are at high risk for a variety of different population groups. So thank you for them.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Essentially, we're doing a total of four shows on mental health that kind of go around our show right here. And so it'll be really interesting to interconnect the subject matters. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's topic is emergency room issues, especially dealing with the pediatric age group. We have a great guest. and a great friend who I'll get into in just a second. We have a wonderful staff that helps us get these shows out to you in a successful way.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Why do they only come to an emergency department? Isn't there any other avenue?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So, all right, let's kind of angle this a little bit. First of all, what do you recommend? That's number one. And then how might that lead into policy changes or, I don't know, legislation or something that can help here?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
You could check out both of our webcasts, or our, excuse me, our podcast on healthshatterpodcast.com. You can also check out Human Partnership and their Their information is also available on our website. So thank you to everybody. So let's get going. Today, we're talking about pediatric ER concerns.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So are any of you and your colleagues, you know, talking policy changes now? So give me a for instance.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah, and it's one thing, the money, it's another thing, the appropriateness of care, you know?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
I have a great colleague and friend and neighbor who actually lives right across the alley from where I live in South Minneapolis, And that's Dr. Jeff Lewis. So Jeff is Associate Professor, Department of Pediatrics, Division Director of Pediatric Emergency Medicine at the University of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah, consistency of care becomes a problem. So let me ask you, okay, so obviously, you know, a variable in all of this are the costs. So, all right. So kid has dropped off at the emergency. Who's paying for this? I mean, is it coming?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Wow. Wow. So it's kind of... It's beneficial for the health insurance companies. Yeah, because they don't have to dish out any money. Okay.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
it's mind-boggling. What I would love to do is have a follow-up on just this discussion for emergency room because I want to talk about some other things here with you. But a follow-up to see, okay, where are things? Are things getting better? Is there some legislation? Are they opening up office buildings that are empty now because everybody is telecommuting?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
I don't think it's for a lack of space. I think it might be a lack of professionals. And also costs, but that's where legislation could come in to help maybe figure out places and help to hire people. But anyway, a lot to be determined here, but I just have to underscore this, that this is troubling and sad. and sad, and I truly hope that there will be some solutions sooner than later.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So, all right, let's talk about the ER in general. You've been an emergency room physician for many years now. What are the most common things that you see, especially for kids?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Got his background at Loyola University in Chicago, residency in Maryland, University of Maryland Fellowship. And at the Children's Hospital in Pennsylvania. So he's been around the country a little bit, getting some useful insights. He's very, very insightful. I must say that as far as ER issues are concerned. And I'll tell you a quick story. I was sitting right next to Jeff just a few weeks ago.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So the total ER has how many staff, including nurses, et cetera? Yeah.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So, all right. So, you know, I, I recall, you know, during when COVID was at its height certainly in the, in the cardiovascular realm that I was involved with we were seeing, we were not seeing patients in the ER because people were afraid to go in and to the ER for whatever emergency situation they may have because they figured it would only get more complicated. Did you see that as well?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
In other words, pediatric patients that probably should have shown up in the ER but didn't because of an extenuating circumstance like COVID?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
just an hour yeah right right right yeah so they're trying to be a little bit more proactive on one end right but we've definitely seen that a subset of kids who were presenting pretty late who were really really sick yeah yeah okay let's talk a little bit more about seasonal variations um Okay, so all of a sudden spring hits and summer hits.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And I'm assuming, but you correct me if I'm wrong, that you see more falls, you see more broken bones, because kids are on bicycles, et cetera, et cetera. Talk to me about that.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So what surprises you? In your career, what are some of the cases that have, in the emergency room, that have surprised you?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
at a fundraiser and we were just chatting away and I said, so how are things in the ER? And then he proceeded to tell me about some real issues that are hitting the scene, which we'll get into. So I said, Jeff, you gotta be on health chatter. He said, let's do it. So here we are today. So Jeff, thanks for being with us. It's a pleasure, pleasure being with us. So let's start out.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah. Well, interesting. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, all right. So let's, let's talk about screening for potential abuse. So I'm going to tell a quick story here. When, when our son was, was young, really quite young, he was bouncing up and down on, on our bed. And anyway, make a long story short, he fell literally on the bed, but
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
it turns out that he twisted his leg a certain way and boom, he had like a hairline stress fracture. So we brought him in because, et cetera, into the emergency department. And I remember distinctly, I believe it was a physician or a nurse, I can't remember at the time, but asked me to come into a different room And they asked me what the story was, you know, how, how this happened.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
It turns out that they also did the exact same thing with, with my wife to see, to make sure that our stories coincided. Okay. They were, they were right. Okay, so tell me, and I assume that they were, you know, at the time they were looking to see, okay, what's going on here? What do you do today? Similar type of thing?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
You know, for years and years, I worked with Dr. Robert Tanbenso, who is now passed on, but he was an international expert in the area of child abuse and neglect. And we testified in particular child abuse cases. And one of the classics that I remember distinctly that Robert was asked about was a child who fell down the stairs
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
okay, was treated for a, at that time, a broken rib, which is basically he can't do much. But anyway, to make a long story short, this child had four broken ribs. And the telltale sign for abuse is they were all at different stages of healing.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Okay. So, you know, obviously if you fall down, we're all going to be fractured the same way. So, you know, these are, these are types of things that, that are looked for. And unfortunately some, you know, physicians are often called in to testify on these types of cases. Okay. So drug use, what percentage of your kids that you see are involved in some kind of drug use? of some sort.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
with the issue that really kind of brought this to the forefront. And that's mainly, it's kind of around two major issues that are facing the ER, especially for kids, and that's mental health. And also, ironically, kind of, and curiously, residential placement. So take it from there, Jeff. Maybe you can kind of tee it up and then we can talk about it.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Absolutely, absolutely. So, all right. And then the other thing is obviously when people present themselves into the ER, you don't turn them away. I mean, the first thing you do, you don't necessarily check for insurance. If there's some kind of a level of seriousness, you get them in and care for them, correct?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah, yeah. It's sad. On the other hand, For all of us, we have to thank physicians like you and departments like you work in for the type of care that you provide on an emergency basis. And we all face emergencies of some sort or another. And knowing that the care is available is the key message, is the real, real key message.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And so, you know, many, many thanks to all the emergency room physicians and staff, and especially during the stressful situations that I know you were facing when COVID And that just was a variable that you didn't want to have to deal with, but it complicated a lot of care. So thank you very much. And thank you for bringing all of this to our attention. We greatly, greatly appreciate it.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
We reserve the right, Jeff, to bring you back on, even with a couple of your colleagues to talk about, okay, where are things now? Okay, are things better? Have policies been implemented? Has there been some legislation that has helped you? Has there been some finances that have been put into the system that can help ease things up? Whatever it is, let us know and we can get you.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And you can also use this podcast. to help message the problem out there. So thank you. To our listening audience, we have more shows coming up on mental health issues with Dr. Mike Trangle from Health Partners. Those will be shows coming up next. It's kind of a quadfectra of shows on mental health issues. because mental health in and of itself is such a huge, huge issue.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So this is disturbing. I mean, really. I mean, it's just like when we first discussed it, it's just like, what? First of all, is this something relatively new?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Maddie Levine-Wolfe and Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard and Sheridan Nygaard all do our background research for us on all our various topics. Sheridan also helps us with marketing. And also there's Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager, who really puts all the details to the show, adds a little bit of music, edits everything and gets it out to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
All right, so- You know, it's, you know, for most of us, you would think of an ER for emergency treatment, but not, I guess, residential placement, right? So let me, I mean, you know, that's what we go to the ER for, you know, whatever, a broken bone, you know, chest pain, whatever it may be. Respiratory distress, you name it.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Okay, so now we're dealing with mental health issues where they aren't necessarily, if I'm reading it right, have to be treated. They just have to be housed.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So thank you to you guys. You are second to none. And then of course, there's Clarence Jones, my co-host for Health Chatter. We've been doing this for a while. We're having great, great time. I was talking to him the other day and he says, God, Stan, I think we're overachievers on this podcast.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
He said, when we first started out, we were thinking about doing a show monthly and we're getting shows out weekly, which is really, really good. It also indicates that we aren't devoid of topics in healthcare, if you can imagine that. Clarence, second to none, you're the best. So thanks for being involved with us.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So Jeff, what's the, okay. You know, I, I, I'm still kind of overwhelmed by this as I can imagine, only you guys are, but, um, what's the average stay for a kid that, that comes into your, your ED and has to stay there.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You get on a scale to weigh yourself. Okay, so it provides you with, information. And then are you motivated? Are you motivated to, you know, geez, you know, I weighed, you know, you know, five more pounds than I did last week. Whoa. Or you say, okay, whatever, you know, you know, for some people, you know, it does motivate them to change.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Or the same thing, same thing with, you know, Clarence, you and I have been involved with, you know, helping people take their blood pressure. Okay, for some people, you know, if they get their blood pressure and it's, you know, it's 200 over 100, you know, it could be a wake-up call. For other people that say, okay, it's 200 over 100 today. I'll measure it tomorrow and it'll be down.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I will tell you that he definitely motivates me. Because he'll give you these forlorn eyes as if to say, excuse me, Stan, it's time to go for our walk. And so he motivates me. It's also really interesting, I think, you know, and I've noticed this, that animals somehow or other have this innate motivation in them, okay? They want to do all this stuff.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Right. You know, it's just like you put a piece of apple pie in front of you. Do you feel guilty? Yeah. Do you feel guilty? Yeah. If somebody is going to ask me, the answer is no, you know, because I enjoy a piece of apple pie every once in a while. And you know what? I don't want my enjoyment to be affected by guilt. You know, I mean, there's a balance. You know, it's okay.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, have a piece of apple pie every once in a while. It's nothing going to end the world. You know, so sharing it. Okay. So, you know, Clarence and I always call ourselves kind of the old farts. But, you know, and thankfully we have a crew that's younger so we can get the perspective or help us to remember. So I'm going to ask you a simple question. What motivates you about your health?
Health Chatter
Motivation
I'm not so sure that we as humans want to do it all. But anyway... The other thing I think is sometimes we get scared into being motivated.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, it's interesting when you talk to patients. So I talk to, you know, orthopedic patients. And it's interesting. I'll ask them from time to time, what are you hoping for? One patient will tell me to be pain free. Okay. Actually, that's frankly a pretty common response. Another patient will say to be able to play pickleball. Or go hiking.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. And by the way, I don't follow up the answer for being pain-free with another question, okay? Maybe I should, but their mind isn't there yet. They just want to be pain-free first and foremost. Then I'll worry about what I can do. All right. after where other people are, are assuming that they'll be pain free and are taking it that one step further already.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So they're, they're motivated by that being able to climb a mountain or, you know, go water skiing or whatever it is that they, they, they want to do. So it really is a different, and by the way, it's also different as you get older.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Correct. And there's probably as many lanes as there are people on earth, you know, when you really get down to it. Let's talk about a little bit about cultural motivation. Okay. So, and, you know, Clarence, you and I can certainly probably share it too. We could talk about, you know, we're brought up in certain cultures or certain religions or what have you.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And we eat, for instance, a certain way. All right. We're motivated by cultural meals, I guess. Does that ring true that we are motivated by that?
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. You know, it's, you know, I, you know, I think you mean holidays. Okay. So, you know, Thanksgiving is coming up. Okay. You know, there's almost a, you know, a given that everybody's going to eat differently than they do, you know, throughout the rest of the year. Okay. There's going to be this big meal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Health Chatter
Motivation
That's probably true. So, all right. So let me tell you a quick story here. So I remember, you know, I'll talk about seatbelts for just a moment. All right. God, I think I might have been like 22 or so, 22 or 23 years old. And I got into a car accident. Somebody rear-ended me, and I was pushed into a car in front of me. So the whole car was totaled, the whole nine yards. And everybody was okay.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I know. I know. But I'm saying turkey. They got to have turkey. Yeah, I know. But some people don't, you know. And there's almost a thing in my head that, okay, Stan, just watch it a little bit. Everything in moderation here. That's what motivates me on that type of thing. Let's talk about... religion oriented motivation. Okay.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, people, people have a want, not everybody, but a lot of people are motivated by spirituality, no matter what religion you, you, you practice. They're motivated by that. What motivates people in that arena? What is it? I mean, I can kind of.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. So here's the other things. Like some people are motivated to travel.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Okay. Go traveling. All right. And other people, you know, and I have some friends that they like to be here. They don't like, you know, they don't like to deal with all the airport stuff. And they don't want to go overseas because of what situations are happening in the world. And it's just like, oh, God, what if you miss your flight? And they don't want to deal with that kind of stress.
Health Chatter
Motivation
They perceive that as stressful. What they'd rather do is, if they happen to be working, is just stop working and do other things around here as opposed to going abroad.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But, truth be told, I was not wearing my seatbelt. Okay? Okay. Now, from that point on, I was motivated, scared maybe. And from that point on, I've worn my seatbelt, you know, 100% of the time, whenever I'm in a car. I don't care if I'm driving or a passenger or what have you. So notice I was, there was a situation that motivated me. Clarence, what do you got? You got anything similar?
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, I have, for those of us who have been in the health field, either have been or still are, I believe that we are, for the positions that we've been in, I think we're motivated by the idea of encouragement. We like to be able to encourage people people to be healthier through a variety of different ways.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Or we care about people so that they can lead the type of life, for instance, Sheridan, that you're talking about for younger people. And if by chance, a medical condition compromises that. So let's just say, God forbid, Sheridan, today you found out that you have something, cancer, diabetes, whatever, okay? Or even people at your age having like a stroke.
Health Chatter
Motivation
How does that compromise what you just said, what you really want to be able to do in life and how is it that we as healthcare professionals, hopefully if you're able to live through the particular condition, how is it that we can encourage you to assume that, that you can get that even though you have this so-called monkey on your shoulder, okay?
Health Chatter
Motivation
That's part of what I believe the health profession is about. I'm not sure if the word for us is to motivate people. I think it's really more to encourage them, okay, or guide them, assist them, work with them. And whether it be at an individual level or at a community level that you've been involved with, for sure, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, there are certain things that are out of our control. Like, you know, we all faced COVID, for instance. And boy, did that affect our motivation? Think about that. It's just like, how is it that any one individual was motivated I mean, we did as best we could in the health care field to encourage people, for instance, to get vaccinated.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But what is it that actually motivated people to get vaccinated? What happened to being motivated when all of a sudden there's a stop sign that's put in front of all of us where you can't travel or it's very difficult to travel? Your lifestyles have been changed. things were closed down, et cetera. So there are things that are out of our control.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But I will say this, that when things get better, like I'm hoping they are now, those of us who are motivated pick up where we left off as best we can, okay? And that I think is part of human nature for sure.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Well, okay. So I think for everybody out there in the listening world, I'm hoping that our conversation today gets you thinking about how it is that you're motivated, what motivates you, what type of encouragement do you need in order to assume the things that you want to do?
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I believe it also links Clarence with working with trusted partners, whether that's your healthcare providers, your family, friends, et cetera, that can help you assume the things that you want to do and be motivated to do. Does that all make sense? Makes sense to me. Sharon, any thoughts?
Health Chatter
Motivation
So we have Sheridan Nygaard, who is one of our researchers, also helps us with recording and also marketing. Mattie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard are also great researchers. Matthew Campbell is our production manager, gets all our shows out to you with a little bit of music attached. So it's always nice. Clarence Jones is my trusted friend.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, our next show will be on long term. COVID, and one of the questions I'm going to have for our guests next week will be, it's one thing long COVID and the medical or health-related things that have happened because of that, but also there's the psychological aspects of long COVID. For instance, we aren't working together, okay, like in an office space anymore or very little.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And so what effect might that have on people's interactions going forward? So I think there's a long COVID effect with that as well. So that will be our next show after this. In the meantime, everybody keep motivated to listening to Health Chatter and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, so, um, Here's a good one. So I remember taking a, at the University of Minnesota, I took a biology course as an undergrad. And in the textbook, can I remember this distinctly? There was a picture of what lung disease looks like from somebody who's been, who died from being a smoker. Okay. So I'm reading about this and looking at it. And my father smoked a pipe. Okay. All right.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So I'll never forget this. I went home and I said, Dad, you have to take a look at this. And it was really interesting because he quit, literally quit. smoking a pipe and he had been smoking a pipe for years. He literally dropped the pipe and said, That's it. I'm done. It was just like that. And it's just like, wow. You know, for a lot of people, you just can't quit.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I mean, you've got to go through, you know, withdrawal and all this other kind of stuff. But for my dad, what he did is he quit. A few years later, I asked him about it. And he said, you know what? It just hit me. It just hit me. And that's what motivated me to just say, that's it.
Health Chatter
Motivation
colleague in doing all these shows it's uh we always have great conversations whether we're on the air or off the air so thank you to clarence and then also human partnership for sponsoring all our shows great community initiative you can check them out at humanpartnership.org yeah there you go stan
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, you know, I, you know, we've been doing a lot of these shows and some of our shows on health chatter have focused on prevention. Okay. It's like, okay. So wearing your seatbelt is, you know, is one eating diet. properly, okay, getting exercise, you know, we address all the risk factors associated with many of the chronic diseases that we as humans face.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on motivation. Interesting subject. Clarence and I will be chatting about that. We have a great crew that helps us with all our shows. For the listening audience, if you've heard any of our shows, I always give them high praises, but I'm going to do it again today.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I'd be curious, you know, from, you know, Aaron or Sheridan, you know, my perspective is that it's it's perhaps harder to think about it in the prevention mode. You know, if you're healthy and you feel great, then, you know, what do you keep telling us that we have to keep doing this stuff? On the other hand, if somebody experiences, for instance, cardiac arrest, okay, or
Health Chatter
Motivation
They're diagnosed with diabetes. I think that that becomes, for many people, the aha moment. And they say to themselves, geez, I better do these things. I'm now motivated. I have to be motivated to do these things. Because if I don't, I might be facing another heart attack. or a diabetic situation might get worse, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So I think that there's kind of these nuances between the prevention side of the equation and if you have a disease entity. I don't know, what do you guys think about this?
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. Yeah. You know, here's the other thing, too. I think I might have mentioned in a previous show, my mother grew up with a very, very dear friend who smoked like a chimney. I mean, just unbelievable. And I remember asking her, I said, you know, Rita, you have to, you just have to quit smoking. And she turned around to me, and this gets to your point, Aaron. She said, you know what?
Health Chatter
Motivation
So today, Clarence and I, we've been thinking that, geez, we've been doing all these shows about health. And how is it that people get motivated to do something about their health, whether it be on the prevention side, whether it be on the intervention side? What is it that gets us motivated? So the listening audience, you can't see, but behind me is my pooch, Murphy.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I really enjoy smoking. And if you're telling me, Stan, that if I stop, I'll add whatever it is, five years to my life or whatever. She said, look at all the years of enjoyment I've had. And so you know what you say to a person like that? Okay, I understand. I get it. You know, it's just like, God bless.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. So, you know, it's also interesting, too, of what we deal with to be motivated. So let me give you a for instance. Life insurance. Like, why would I buy life insurance? It's not for me, okay? Because when I die, I'm motivated by the fact that when I die, there'll be something left for, okay? That's what life insurance is about. So the motivation comes from the idea of
Health Chatter
Motivation
making whoever is left happy or more comfortable, et cetera. So there are other things that we deal with in our life that motivates us. Also, our own kids motivate us, okay? We want to do whatever we can so that their lives are better than ours. Okay. We want to take it up a notch. Okay. As best we possibly can.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on suicide and specifically, more specifically, the report that's recently come out in the state of Minnesota on the numbers that we're facing, which is unfortunately not happy, but hopefully we'll get a public health perspective on it from our illustrious guests. So stay tuned in a second here. We've got a great crew that...
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And I encourage all of you to check out their website. You can check our website out as well as healthchatterpodcast.com. You can see their information and all the logistics for our shows, including on our website, we put our background research on there. and the sites that we've used in order for us to reflect on good questions for our guests that we have.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So, you know... Here's a little bit of good news, maybe, I guess. For many of the health-related issues, actually, I might go on record as saying maybe most of the health-related issues where we see high prevalence, it really affects the Black community. the Black population more.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
But what's really interesting is, according to your data here, Stefan, the age-adjusted suicide rates by race and ethnicity, it's the lowest in the state of Minnesota. It's the lowest. in the Black community. So finally, there's some relatively good news for the Black community.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
However, on the other end of the equation is the American Indian and Alaskan Native, which is relatively high, and then I guess maybe really high, and then followed by white, Hispanic, et cetera. Any thoughts about just race in general and maybe what we're seeing here, besides just the numbers, any guesses on why it might be higher in American Indian and Alaskan Native, for instance?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Today, we have a wonderful guest, a great colleague of mine, Stefan Gingrich from the Minnesota Department of Health, who's recently, it's only been like, what, less than a month or so that you got a report out on what's going on in the state of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Yeah. You know, it's interesting, um, Clarence, I w I was on that same wavelength a little bit. Um, but I used a different word stigma. There's, you know, there's a particular, I think stigma that, um, people attach to, um, suicide, um, You know, like if it happens to someone that you know or is dear to you, it's like you say, what the heck?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And Clarence and I will reflect not only on that, but also how we compare, for instance, to other states nationally, and then also what's going on nationally as a whole around the issue of suicide, unfortunately, and suicide prevention. So today we have Stefan with us, senior epidemiologist at Minnesota Department of Health. He was previously at Stay Well Health Management,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Why didn't they get some kind of intervention to help them, okay? And to a certain extent, It relates to more of a chronic condition. You know, you just don't, it just doesn't happen. At least I think it doesn't happen. The ideas behind this just don't happen overnight. Where with homicide, it like happens. It's an acute event and boom, that's it. So I think there's a little bit of stigma.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
All right, I've got another question for Stefan here. Ready? All right. So, you know, I'm looking at your data here and it's interesting, like between the ages of 20 and 59 or 60, the rates are, you know, higher. Then all of a sudden it takes this kind of dip into the 60s. So what's going on there? Are we just wiser or we, you know, for those of us that are either in our 60s or 70s,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
We've gone through it. We've dealt with stress. We kind of get it. And so it's like, okay, everybody, chill out a little bit here. Or what is it that between, what do you think it is, I guess, between 20 and 60 that the rates are higher than like in the 60s or early 70s?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
He's done a variety of different publications in this arena, and most notably the one that you'll hear about today. He's got his background in epidemiology from the University of Iowa, the Hawkeye State, south of Minnesota. So welcome to you, Stefan, to Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
You know, I wonder if a big variable is just work. Okay. So like, you know, from your twenties to your, you know, mid sixties, 70, um, you're, you know, you're, you're working and, um, then all of a sudden, thank goodness I'm done with that. Okay. That's that stressor is like gone. And, um,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And basically during those years in the 60s, 70s, etc., it's maybe adjustment factors for people as opposed to incredible stressors like from work or bringing up a family or paying for college tuitions and all this other kind of stuff. Again, I'm only putting a guess out there as well.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So let's talk about geographic, since you mentioned that, because certainly in the state of Minnesota, again, I don't know what's going on nationally. I'm guessing it's similar, but it's significantly higher in rural areas, okay? And has that been pretty much true over the years that we've been collecting that it's higher in rural areas than in like in metropolitan areas?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Yeah, thanks, thanks. So, all right. Suicide. You know, what Clarence and I do a lot of these shows, we talk about acute medical conditions, we talk about chronic medical conditions, but suicide kind of is a variable or a condition that's almost
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
if you're in an environment at least where you know you might have a chance to get some help, that might be a factor as opposed to out in the middle of nowhere and you don't know where to turn. Again, I'm only thinking human behavior wise. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
in a um a realm by itself so let's let's first and foremost let's just start out with all right what's going on in the state of Minnesota so go ahead Stefan reflect on on the report that that you've put out and tell us where we're at the trend that we're seeing how it's how it's reflected by maybe different races in the state, geographic variations, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
You know, one thing that I think is important for all of us and those of us in the listening audience here is to realize this. We all, as human beings, have ups and downs, okay, no matter what. We all have stressors that are more intense at times than others. And it's how... you as a particular human being can cope with them and deal with them from time to time.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So as we come towards the end of the show, I really think it's important that we tell everybody what are the typical kinds of warning signs for suicide. So for instance, people are talking about that they want to die, or they feel guilty, or they have a lot of shame, or they feel as though they're a burden on others. A sense of emptiness or hopelessness, extremely sad or anxious.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Or even for some people, they're experiencing unbearable pain. And that might be from a particular medical condition where they just say, you know what, I can't cope with this anymore. And people start thinking about plans. They make plans ahead of time. What else have you heard, Stefan, from your colleagues as far as warning signs, I guess, in this arena?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
putting the numbers behind it. You know, it's sometimes, you know, you could talk about a particular subject just overall, but then typically somebody will ask, well, how bad is it? You know, or, you know, how many people actually, and then when you put numbers to a particular issue, then, you know, we have these aha moments. And I hope all of us on the show had this aha moment
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And it's okay to hold somebody's hand, okay, and help them through things. It's okay to give somebody a hug if they need it. You know, just some support is really good. I appreciate your optimism. You know, and there is. There is something to be said about this. Or as professionals, we should look for that. And because those are the hopeful signs, certainly from a public health perspective.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So Stefan, thanks. Thanks so much. And we'll keep in touch with you to see if there's other information that comes your way. So thanks again. So for our listening audience, we have lots of great shows coming up. It's kind of an interesting segue. We're going to get into the mental health arena a little bit. So next week, we're going to be talking about government and mental health policy.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And then eventually we're going to be having talks on where we stand with mental health, clinical aspects of mental health, et cetera. We're also going to be talking about asthma. We're having Senator John Marty come and talk to us about policy at the state level. So lots of great shows coming up on health chatter. So for all of us here,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Stefan, Clarence, and the staff, thanks for listening in and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
drives our program logistically, research-wise, production-wise. We've got Maddie Levine-Wolfe and Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, all do our background research and give Clarence and I some semblance of order as far as talking points are concerned. We've got Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So all right. Yeah, I'm glad you have some optimism. It's still a sad story. And Clarence, chime in on this for sure. Is there, do we have any sense based on when people call, okay? Like they might call that 988 number. Do we have any sense at all on how many we might've prevented? Or is that too hard of an epidemiological thing, measurement to get?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
puts together all the logistics for these shows and gets the shows out to you, the listening audience. Sheridan Nygaard is our marketing specialist and also helps on background research as well. My dearest of dear colleague, Clarence Jones, we've been having fun doing this.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So if that, Stefan, so if the trend is increasing, might it be because we have... better measurement techniques?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Yeah. So let's talk about... Male, female. Okay, because to me, it's striking where we see suicide rates. Again, according to your report in the state of Minnesota, it's like off the charts, more males compared to females. So first, let me, I'll ask, first of all, why that might be. But second of all, is that pretty consistent with what we're seeing in other states today?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
We like to chat about health issues and hopefully we're getting some useful, honest, up-to-date information to you, the listening audience through our Health Chatter podcast venue. And then finally, I wanna recognize Human Partnership, who's our sponsor for this engagement, for all of our engagements. Wonderful community initiative that focuses on health for all of us.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Okay, and why? What's going on here? Why us males have a higher rate? I read somewhere access to methods, maybe guns or what have you, is maybe... higher or more prevalent in males, but what, is there any epidemiological analyses on why it's so much higher for males?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So in our shows, you can imagine we've dealt with a lot of disease entities, et cetera. And we usually kind of thematically think about prevention, treatment, Disease management. Okay. So let's talk about or get your input on health literacy from a prevention standpoint. All these things that we're trying to prevent. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Help me to get my head around the idea of health literacy with all these messages that we put out around prevention.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. There are certain things. that are required for students when they graduate. Like in the state of Minnesota, you're required to know CPR, cardiopulmonary resuscitate. This would be a nice add on to that law. Imagine that, how is it that we could help increasing health literacy with some of the ideas that you were talking about? What about for us,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
older people, you know, and prevention. It's like, you know, we're barraged with all these health messages on what we should do prevention wise. But many of us don't might not understand it. So how do we deal with with an older population?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Hello everybody out in Health Chatter land. Welcome to Health Chatter and our show today will be on health literacy, which is actually when we think about all the shows we've done, there's probably a health literacy component to all of them, but we'll really get into the logistics of all of that with our great guest who I'll introduce in a moment.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting that, that, I mean, it's kind of logical, but it's kind of like, we all need to be reminded of a simple resource as a library to get some good information. Go ahead, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And it was ironic. I remember it well when we were thinking about all the different community oriented initiatives that we were involved with all of our grants. And it just dawned on us. I don't know how, but, you know, hopefully it was a smart decision that, you know, we should really address health literacy when we're dealing with all these great communities that we're dealing with at the time.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, so here's, you said that, you know, this whole thing of health literacy, the theme of health literacy really kind of went off in the 80s, 90s, etc. I can't.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
the problems that are associated with poor health literacy in our illustrious research group listed in here, like we're seeing more hospitalizations, greater use of emergency care, decreased use in preventive services, poor health status, higher mortality, higher health costs, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, now my question is, was that still a problem?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
before health literacy became, you know, before we started studying it. It seems to me that these issues have been around with us for a while, but maybe one of the major ways to address them is through being more health literate.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And so we did, we really got going on health literacy, and made sure that our, our staff knew about it, we wrote our grants with a health literacy lens, etc. And we could not have done that at all, really, without the help of our guest today, Janelle Lamont. Since then,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, it seems to me that, you know, what you're referring to is really a partnership in order to accomplish health literacy. Yes, it falls on any one of us individually, but also the healthcare providers together. So, and not being afraid of
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
not coming across as a patient that you might feel like you're stupid because you didn't, why would I ask this question type of thing, as opposed to saying, it's okay. It's okay to ask the question. Better to ask the question to be safe and correct in your treatment, for instance, than not. So, I mean, I think that's, so I'll give a perfect illustration of this. So,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Our listening audience knows, if you've heard, I take care of orthopedic patients after they've had knee surgery. I go in and say, hey, listen, I've had it myself, so I'm here to provide you some insight on how to recover. And it's really interesting, the comments that I often get. I love, like one patient will say, I love just hearing normal language.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Just normal, and I appreciate that greatly, as opposed to the medical ease that they hear when, you know, in getting their knee replaced, okay? So it kind of takes, to a certain extent, it takes the stress down for them. And imagine if you take the stress down for them, they heal, they recover quicker. So it does work, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, since being at the health department, she is now an assistant professor in the Department of Family Medicine and Biobehavioral Health at the University of Minnesota in Duluth, up in northern Minnesota. She got her doctorate in occupational health research and policy and a master's in public health and environmental health, all from the University of Minnesota, primary research
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So let's talk about a recent event that's near and dear to everybody. And that's COVID. Okay. So How? I mean, just maybe an assessment, you know, from from maybe your your perspective, Janelle is how did lack of health literacy affect us when we were all going through COVID? What did you see or perceive?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting, even for people who are highly educated or professional or, I mean, when you're dealt with, something like COVID, it puts us in a high stress situation. And again, that affects our ability to interpret communications properly. And it became problematic because the professionals
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
quickly and efficiently and effectively needed to understand it in order to communicate to their patients. So it put us in a little bit of a quandary there for a while, but it certainly is an indication of why we all need to put up the balance a little bit on health literacy for all of us so that we're not as stressed out when we're faced with those types of things.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
involves investigating the intersection between chronic disease and related risk factors such as Alzheimer's disease and dementia. But she has an illustrious background dealing with health literacy. She trained many people when she was involved at the dental health program at the Minnesota Department of Health and training dental health professionals.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, one of the things that we talked about in a previous show was this whole issue of trust. And it seems to me, and maybe you can reflect on this a little bit, you know, that if you have a trusted relationship with your primary care provider, that almost by itself embraces being more health conscious.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
literate because you have a sense of communicating better or you aren't as nervous, for instance, communicating. The reason I bring that up is in this day and age, especially when people are constantly changing health plans, for instance, and they're forced to change providers, for instance,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And also led a lot of conferences, led actually a lot of trainings, even for us, the staff. And then it really jumped from there. I remember it jumped from there where you became really involved nationally in the issue of health literacy. And so thank you. Thank you so much for being on Health Chatter today. So let's get this going. You know, to a certain extent, health literacy is like a duh.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
um that trust then is compromised and and i'm guessing i'm maybe hypothesizing here that health literacy is also compromised because now you're talking to someone else who you've never talked to before and all of a sudden you got to break through that barrier in order to get your your needs met health-wise does that ring true at all yeah i i think
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So, you know, the other day I went to the dentist, I had to have a crown replaced, not fun. Okay. But my dentist and his, his assistant, his, I noticed were really, really good. They were probably trained by you, Janelle. But they were really good because throughout the whole thing, they were explaining
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Literally, every little step that they were doing, you know, with the impressions and the taking this out, putting this in and, you know, they whatever, whatever it happened to be, step by step, they were just saying, okay, Stan, this is what we're doing now. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And it was, it's just comforting knowing that, you know, when you're sitting back in the chair there with your mouth, your mouth wide open, at least you're, you're hearing what's going on and you feel more confident that way.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, which, okay, at least I know that there's going to be one now, you know. Exactly.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
instructions that you can take with you usually they have aftercare summaries that they can print out for you you know I could just see in a doctor's office or in a dental office you know a simple sign that says it's okay to ask just it really it's okay to ask or it's okay to clarify you know That kind of brings it down to say, hey, yeah, okay, thanks.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, because I might need some things to be clarified here a little bit.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
The other thing that I think compromises health literacy is the time allotment that physicians are given in order to see a particular patient or a dentist or whoever, a provider, a health provider. That really puts an angst in the whole thing, I think. And maybe going forward, that type of thing can be addressed.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
I mean, shouldn't we all be kind of health literate when we're dealing with our health? But we all deal with it at different levels. So maybe we can start out with defining what health literacy is.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Better than it is now. So Janelle, I know you've given us some really great food for thought, but if there may be one or two things that you want to make sure our listening audience is left with today, what would it be?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Well, I'll tell you, it seems to me that, like I said previously, this whole concept of health literacy is really a two-way street. Yeah. We each individually need to own it. Professionals need to own it. And in many ways, we need to all practice as well. Okay. Yeah. It's an ongoing issue. It's been going on for a while. You and I have been involved with it for a while.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And actually, we're hoping that through just health chatting, through our health chatter podcast, we're providing some information out there. clearly, we hope, straightforward, so that people can understand these issues around health clearer.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You're, you're, you're a, you're a real gem when it comes to, um, this whole subject. And, um, And just the way you present it is clear. So that's great. That's great. So thanks for being with us on Health Chatter. For all of you out there, we've got some great shows coming up. Our next show, we were having an actual stroke survivor that will talk to us about...
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
His care, which frankly, I assume is going to involve some health literacy issues that we talked about today. And then after that show, upcoming shows, we're going to be talking about grief and how it is that another show on motivation. How is it that we get motivated in health and do things that we need to do? How is it that we get there? So with that, thank you. Keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
We have a great, wonderful ass crew behind the scenes that helps us with all our shows, Maddy Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do our background research for all our shows that gives both Clarence and I some information that makes us sound smart. So thank you to you guys. Matthew Campbell is our production manager, makes sure that our shows get out to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, I remember distinctly, you know, it's like it's almost like every profession has their own language. You think of the medical profession, you think of the public health profession, you think of the legal profession. And it's like all of a sudden when somebody out in the community needs to link one way or the other with that profession, it's like there's a sense of being lost.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And Sheridan Nygaard, is also one of our researchers, but she also helps us with marketing. So thank you to all of you. You're second to none. My co-host, partner in crime, Clarence Jones. Wow. This has been a ride. Great colleague. We love doing this show. We really, really do. And hopefully we're getting some useful information out to you, our audience. Also, I'd like to thank
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So let me ask a couple of things here. First and foremost is how do we know when someone is health literate?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, so you bring up, actually, that's one of the questions I had, you know, when you, when anyone is, is faced with a, um, an acute event, okay. An emergency. Okay. Like, um, Or you're diagnosed, like you just said, like with a major illness like cancer or whatever.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
It's like for any of us, frankly, even those of us who are trained in these fields, it's like all of a sudden it puts you in this kind of a tizzy where it's like, okay, how in the heck do I find out about this cancer or what have you? And in a way that I can act. I really can move forward with information that I truly understand.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And the point that you bring up is the immediacy of the situation can put people, increase stress levels, et cetera, and affect their ability to understand. So the point of bringing it back to the provider, I think is really important. a good, good point. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Human Partnership, a community health organization that's involved with community endeavors for, frankly, for all of us. You can see their information. You can visit their website at humanpartnership.org. With that, let's get going on health literacy. Today, we've got a great guest with us, Janelle Lamont, who... We worked together all the years at the Minnesota Department of Health.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, you could check them out at humanpartnership.org. We want to thank them for sponsoring us. And also, you can check us out at healthchatterpodcast. All our shows are on there. All our background research is on there if you want to read about it. And also, many of the shows are transcribed as well. So if you're more into reading the show or listening to the show, you have a choice.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let me go back to this kind of theme that I called, I'll just call it confusion. You know, it's just like, and let me just take one facet of that whole ball of wax here. Yearly, every year, people are required to do open enrollment. Okay. Now what does that do? I mean, you know, in the scheme of things, why do we have to keep going through this year in and year out?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And it, and it provides frankly, angst for a lot of people. It provides confusion. It's, um, can I use for, for instance, when, when you're looking at this yearly update or whatever it is, um, People ask, well, can I still see my same physicians, et cetera? What is it? Why is it that we have to embrace this? I mean, every year we have to go through this.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Well, again, OK, so this is part of the- Well, universal by, excuse me, universal on the other hand, you wouldn't have to worry about that, right? Yeah. It would just continue to happen.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
It just keeps going on and on. Erin, you have a question for us.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So there you go. Today we have a great guest. I've known her for a long, long time. And we were just chatting probably. I've known her about as long as I've known Clarence. Dr. Lynn Blewett. whose research really focuses on healthcare policies. He's at the University of Minnesota in the School of Public Health, focusing on healthcare policy and access.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's topic is a good one, and hopefully it'll be informative for you, the listening audience. It's about access to healthcare and insurance, which kind of go hand in hand. We've got a great guest with us. We'll get to her in a minute. We've got a great crew that always keeps us hopping, Maddy Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard,
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Thank you. And if it were a right, then everybody would know it and they would understand clearly that
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let's play out a scenario here. Let's say I didn't have health insurance. And all of a sudden I'm having chest pain and suffering from a heart attack. What happened? Do I just die in my chair or what happened?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
and she directs the State Health Access Data Assistance Center. And do you call that Shadack? Shadack? Shadack. Shadack, okay. Shadack. Shadack, okay. Her expertise is in healthcare policy, access to care, which we're gonna get into some of these definitions, by the way, so everybody's clear. Looking at disparities,
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
You probably have two heart attacks thinking about the process.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Right, right. So really, what happens when people have, frankly, an emergency situation, they're uninsured?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah. You know, we had, um, a colleague of mine, Jeff Louie, and actually a neighbor too. He's a, um, emergency room physician, um, pediatric emergency room physician. And this was really a say, and this, this exists, this problem exists where, um, Kids are admitted to the ER with some kind of medical issue and they are in the foster system or what have you. And guess what?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
The ER then lands up being the foster home where the kids are literally living in the ER because there's no place for them to go. All right, so all of these complicated, which then creates an access issue for people who need to get into the ER for actual emergency treatment.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
It's really, really sad. So, all right, Lynn, you've been studying this a long time. And I can't help but think that a good academic mind can help us to, based on what you've researched, what you know, we know where the past has been. We know where we are now, this kind of state of confusion around access and insurance. What do you perceive?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
She's also, I remember we worked together at the State Health Department before she went to the University of Minnesota. Wonderful person, wonderful colleague, and many, many thanks for being on our show today, Glenn. Nice to have you.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
What do you really think is going to happen going forward based on everything that you've done?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And, you know, people who are not covered changes. You know, one year you can be covered and the next year you're not covered. It's like whatever. You know, I'll tell you, you know, as a public health person for my career, I was happy with the Affordable Care Act. Was it the full enchilada? Absolutely not. But I found myself saying things, at least we've got the train out of the stations.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And to your point, you know, all right, once the train is at the station, at least, you know, along the way, we can see the ups, the downs, the sideways and make changes to an infrastructure that at least we've created. It's better than nothing at this point.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, so let's get this thing going here. We're talking about access to healthcare slash health. insurance. So let's maybe start this out by what the heck do we mean by access specifically to health care?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Which I don't get. So Clarence, let me ask you something. So you're in the community a lot and you're talking to your colleagues and friends. What are they saying? Are they confused? What's going on out in the community that you're getting kind of wind of?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Older Americans, they can apply for Medicare. I've heard from various people that they assume that, okay, once I have Medicare, great. I don't have to worry about anything else. I've got Medicare. Okay. Then all of a sudden there's this other variable called a Medicare supplemental program, right? Or a plan. Okay, so then you're thrust into this craziness again, yearly, by the way.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And what's really interesting about a Medicare supplemental program is on a year-to-year basis, not only do you pick the plan, but you have to identify your risk for yourself. well, do you think you're going to be higher risk now that you're a year, you know, you're 72 instead of 71 or whatever?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Has anything happened in the last year that, you know, should, you know, and then all of a sudden, boom, if you're put into a higher risk, this person pays more. And so it's like, oh, my God, you know, oh, wait, I'm a higher risk. But I don't want to pay more. So put me at a lower risk and I'll just, you know, flip a coin and hopefully everything will be all right.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
It's really unfortunate that people have to, in my estimation, have to deal with that.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Right. I kind of make it analogous to elderly people trying to figure out a mobile phone, you know, yeah, it's just like, Really?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So, Lynn, last thoughts. What would you really, you know, when all is said and done, when you're dealing with access and you're dealing with insurance and all these variables that we've talked about in the show today, what do you really want the public to know? I mean, you know, if there's a one-liner or a two-liner or whatever, what is it you know, based on your expertise?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And the other thing I'll add to that is this, we invite you back anytime you want, like in your research or your findings, if there is something that, geez, you know, the public really needs to know about this. Here's a method, you know, through Health Chatter that we can get some of that information out. on all the great findings that you're doing and getting in, in the work you do. So.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So Lynn, thank you so much for, for being with us today. On one hand, you know, it's happy to be able to talk about it. And on the other hand, it's kind of sad that we aren't further along, but like I said, hang in there. Right.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So the insurance then, if I'm reading you right, is kind of the entree to the whole idea of access itself, correct?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Stay tuned. Yeah, right. To our listening audience, it's been great having you on Health Chatter today. Our next show that we'll be having is on caregiving. And we've had a show on caregiving, but we're going to really focus on caregiver care. burnout, which is really, we're seeing a lot of that, unfortunately, around the country. So stay tuned for that. So again, Lynn, thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And to everybody out there in the listening world, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
All right. And then there are issues. around access but we'll get we'll get to that in a second so can you you know that to be honest with you even for those of us who've been in the industry it can be even confusing for us okay because it's like oh my god there's private insurance there's public coverage it's um
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
doing this stuff yearly, where you have to re-up your insurance or redefine who you're going to have for your insurance, where you get your insurance, whether it's through an employer or on your own. So can you kind of cover that umbrella of all these things, public, private, where you get it, et cetera?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, all do great, great work for us. They do background research. They do the marketing. They do the production for this show. So thank you to all of you guys. You're second to none and greatly, greatly appreciate the work that you do. My co-host for the show is Clarence Jones. Great colleague. He's got great questions.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let me ask this question. Who typically, let's call it by age, who typically uses health coverage more? Is it fair to say the elderly do? Maybe 65 and older?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, okay. All right, Clarence, I know you've got some zingers. Here we go.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Thank you. So you alluded to the fact, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, that our system in the United States is probably the most complicated anywhere in the world. I just think about somebody who wakes up one day and just says, okay, I have to get health insurance. It's just like, whoa, where do I start? So let's back up on one thing. Give me your thoughts about single payer.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
In other words, if we're really talking about trying to get rid of confusion and perhaps get rid of confusion and just make it easier overall. Talk to me about single payer.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
He comes at it from a different angle than I do. which is always, it's a nice complimentary way of doing a show like this.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, yeah, he's good. But from a different angle than I do. We also have a great sponsor, Human Partnership Community Health Organization. in the, actually, is it statewide, Clarence? I forgot if it's statewide. It is statewide.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
I remember also SARS and a whole bunch of different things. And Mike has served this community locally and also our country nationally on dealing with a lot of different things in the area of infectious disease. Mike is a Regents Professor and McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, there was a recent article, actually very recent, I think it was yesterday. What's today? Yeah, it was yesterday in the New Yorker. There's an article that came out. The veterinarians preventing the next pandemic.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And it was really an interesting article in the sense that what it does is it really focused on animals overall and their linkage to us as humans as far as pandemics are concerned.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Many of you might know that as CIDRAP. Excuse me, CIDRAP. He's also served as the science envoy for health security on behalf of the US Department of State. He's the author of a book back in 2017, Deadliest Enemy, Our War Against Killer Germs. I recommend that book.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatters. Today's show, we've got a special guest with us that I'm sure many of you will recognize. We'll get to him in a second. It's on infectious disease, where we've been, where we are now, and where we're going, which we're going to be covering a lot. But we have a great guest. I'd like to recognize my crew. They're second to none, really.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
From 2001 to 2005, Mike, in addition to his role in CIDDROP, served as special advisor to the HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson on issues related to bioterrorism in public health. And, and this is of course where I linked with Mike, was all the years that he served as the head of the Infectious Disease Department at the Minnesota Department of Health. Mike,
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah. You know, you mentioned before, Mike, the idea of diseases with wings, per se, which brings up an idea in my mind. It's like, OK, many of the epidemics that we saw historically, you know, to a certain extent, they were self-contained within major regions of a continent. Now, you know, we're dealing with airplane travel. We're dealing with technology.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And so I wonder if you might be able to talk about that a little bit. It's like, OK, all of a sudden you've got, you know, COVID in China and the next thing you know, it's on a cruise ship. The next thing you know, it's on, you know, in the United States.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So all right, let's get this show on the road. It's like past, present, and future. All right, so let's just clear the airwaves a little bit. Let's just talk about COVID so we get that kind of out of the way a little bit, OK? And I'm going to start out this.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah. Clarence and I work together on getting people in Barbershops, teaching them how to take their blood pressure.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Same concept, you know, same idea. So, you know, to your point though, Mike, it's the idea of how do you effectively communicate? Well, number one is within your community and with people who you really trust. Right. Who you can have the conversation with and know that you can get good information that way. So let's talk, you know, obviously what's hit the scene today
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Actually, it's been around, but all of a sudden it's hit the scene just yesterday was Mpox. You and I and, you know, some of us with a little bit of gray hair or no hair called it monkeypox. But there are some reasons not calling it that. All right. So what just so, you know, for our listening audience going forward now with something else that's hitting the scene, what do we need to know?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You were entrenched in dealing with this at the state level and at the national level, trying to get information out to the public as quickly and honestly as we possibly, possibly could. So, all right, now I really, at this point, at this juncture, what has Mike Osterholm learned from it? I mean, it's just like, it was such a complicated process
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
from a health perspective and a political perspective. What have you learned from it?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Right, right. And I wonder if it was almost dictating to the public a false sense of security. It's just like, hey, we've identified somebody at your place of work that came down with COVID, so now we're telling you to do X, Y, and Z. Well, You know, if you're not feeling well, you should stay home anyway, no matter what the hell it is.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
All right. So, you know, one thing that I became really sensitive to is proper funding for So that, you know, you and I could talk about public health in general, which is a whole other story. But going forward, if indeed the nation is going to be proactive based on what we've gone through, give me your sense about, you know, what would be appropriate funding and the focus for the funding.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So, you know, we're very, you know, I guess the best way to describe it, we aren't very strategic overall. We're, we only, react to kind of what's right in front of our face.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And, and that's, that can be dangerous as we found out, you know, certainly with, with, with, with COVID and it will happen again. I mean, history bears that out that we will have something again.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, certainly during this during COVID, the pandemic is where. you know, I, you know, when I was dealing with, you know, the cardiovascular stuff and contact tracing at the time, I couldn't help but get wrapped up in, in how the politics of it all became a negative factor, you know? And it just, it, it, it obviously it bothered me.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, it's like, I remember my dad always used to say, when you have your health, you have everything. well, excuse me, the politics was getting in the way of your health at the time, just for, you know, if for nothing else, accurate information. Mike, this has been great. Last thoughts.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah, I underscore that a lot. Clarence, I know you have to leave. Last comments from you.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So, you know, uh, one thing I want to do is, uh, you have your own podcast, the Austin home update.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And I encourage our listeners to, to check that out. Comes out every other week. Correct.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
All right. And, and also, um, Feel free to link this particular podcast with your podcast as one of your shows. Feel free. I mean, you know, it would be absolutely, absolutely great. We also reserve the right to get back to you if, you know, God forbid something else happens. Oh, my God, I got to call Mike.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Hey, thanks so much for being with us. To our listening audience, keep health chatting away. Our next show will be on health. and traveling, which kind of links to the thought of, you know, putting wings to everything here. We'll talk about that for sure. Keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Without their help, these shows would not be a success. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard. And of course, we have Dr. Barry Baines as our medical advisor. All the logistics are done by the crew in the background. They do the research and also get the shows out to you, the listening audience. Clarence Jones is my great colleague.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, the other thing I think is that, you know, how many of us have witnessed or been part of a public health emergency? I mean, and then all of a sudden it kind of hit. And it's like, you know, the response from many people is, okay, well, now what the hell do we do?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
We do these shows together. We have a lot of good chats. And we've talked to a lot of great, great people on this show. So thank you, Clarence. It's a pleasure working with you. Also, our sponsor is Human Partnership. You can check them out. It's a great community health organization at humanpartnership.org. And check us out, healthshatterpodcast.com.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Long COVID is also a component of this going forward as well. So it's like you're dealing with actual COVID, then you're dealing with complications of that go with it as well. So I think, and you can respond to this as well, is this idea of people getting tired. Just tired.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You will see all the research for all our shows, including this one. And you can also... put in questions or comments about the shows as you listened to them. So thanks to all of you. So today we have a great guest with us, Dr. Michael Osterholm. Mike and I go back a long way in the field of public health. We've done some great things together. I remember HIV training.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, also there's, you know, this constant balance between infectious diseases and chronic diseases, which we're dealing with. And I think that that also creates some angst for the public as well. It's like on one hand, I'm dealing with heart disease. And now all of a sudden you're telling me, oh, my God, we got to be careful about COVID.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Right. So it's like, all right, as a clinician – Would you label that more, shall we say, acute as opposed to chronic? In other words, a mental illness that people just have for a long, long period of time as opposed to it, the mental health issue being associated with another issue such as heart disease?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So it's been going for a while. It's a great, great podcast, and it's great having Clarence as a colleague. So today we're going to be looking at the state of the art in mental health, and I've got a great guest for us today, Mike Trangle, Dr. Mike Trangle. He and I go back a long, long way. We were in high school together. We were on a tennis team together.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
uh uh that's not really depression gotcha okay and and and in those kinds of situations for listening audience um Do psychiatrists, for instance, work with like internists or cardiologists in this particular instance in order to coordinate care? Or is it really more situational like you're talking? It's a quick adjustment and then thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on mental health. This is one of three shows that we have with our great guests. I'll introduce them in a minute. Today's show is where we stand on the issue of mental health. And boy, oh boy, there are a lot of variables related to mental health for sure. So what we want to do
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Whereas you, in your practice, you were seeing perhaps more serious ongoing chronic cases. Or is it both?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Gotcha, gotcha. You know, it's interesting though, in your statistics you talked about, and I'm hoping I'm saying this correctly, about a third of the people in the country, you know, you're talking about the difference between Minnesota and the country, about a third of us have some kind of mental health issues. What's the mental health care like, the access? in this country?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I mean, if we have so many people with this issue, I mean, we're talking about it quite a bit, but what's your thoughts about the mental health care access in this country?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And our professional lives kind of went in different directions. But we always knew kind of where each other was in the environment here. We could always connect.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
No, you know what? I want to say this real quick. Dr. Michael, I want to appreciate you because you always say, how do I say this? And that's what this health chatter is about, is to say it. Because because because the thing that's most important for us really is to be able to have an authentic, open, honest conversation. And you are the expert, you know, and I guess so many questions that I have.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And I just want you to just, you know, be safe. But say it. Just tell us what the real deal is, because that's what we want to do on this particular program. So I appreciate you.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Yeah. You know, it's interesting enough, but right now we're, you know, with Human, we're doing some things around substance abuse education training. We just trained like 30 young people to go into the community to talk about this issue. And what you're saying is that 93% of them, of people that they may be talking to won't even have access?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And anyway, Mike has got a great illustrious background in the area of mental health. And he really is a gem for those of us in the state of Minnesota that can rely on his expertise and his insights. He's been involved in a variety of different mental health oriented issues, including eating disorders, chemical dependency, crisis stabilization for adolescents.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Wow. Wow, that's good to know, but it's also sad to know. Exactly. Especially with the issues that we're having that are being compounded by the stressors, the fake news, and relationship, all those kinds of things. It's something that we really, as a community, have to think about and talk about.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So I'm going to put this in perspective a little bit. When I was an undergrad at the University of Minnesota, I had a position at Fairview Hospital on the West Bank of the river as a psychiatric technician for adolescents. And many, many of those kids that were admitted to the hospital back then were, quote, behavior problems. That's what they were diagnosed as. behavior problems.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And although we did see, you know, medically oriented, you know, problems as well, paranoia, psychosis, you name it. But has the language of mental health changed?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
with adequate uh numbers of clinicians and resources things don't get better yeah so let me talk about also um over the years you know in your practice have you seen a a major change in medication for instance you know medications tend to incrementally improve um and um and help
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
All right. So for our listening audience, this gives us frankly just a tip of the iceberg of addressing mental health. Hopefully in our next two shows with Dr. Trangle, we'll be able to look at, we'll get a little bit more into the nitty gritty I know, for instance, that Mike is very involved with policy changes, and hopefully we'll be able to share that with all of you so that you're aware.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Most recently, he was at Health Partners, heading up their psychiatric initiatives there. And most recently, he's a distinguished lifetime fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, immediate past president of the Minnesota Psychiatric Society.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
You're simply aware of what's out there. Hopefully our goal for Clarence and I and Health Chatter is to really, really break through even more the stigma that's attached to mental health. Because yes, I would say it's maybe gotten better, but it could be a lot better than when we're at for sure. So any other closing thoughts for this segment, Mike?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
He's on the National Quality Forum Standing Behavioral Health Measurement Committee and participate in our governor in the state of Minnesota, his advisory council on mental health. and also a task force on competency restoration. So he's got it. He's got it in his head on where we stand with mental health.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
a couple months ago on the issue of trust. So let's just say, for instance, you know, you have a patient. It seems to me when you're dealing with mental health issues, probably many health issues, but certainly with mental health issues, there's got to be a real trust factor between the patient and the provider. Talk to me about that a little bit.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
You have to fight the system at the same time when you're dealing with your medical issue. It's just like, whoa, it's overwhelming.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And we'll also be having Mike on in a couple of other shows down the pike on looking at mental health as it relates to particular population groups and age groups, and then also a following show on policy implications, what we can do from a policy perspective in order to change these things. So, Mike, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with us today. It's a pleasure.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
You alluded to some of the variables that link today that are causing people to become more and more depressed or more and more anxious. You know, being, you know, gay or lesbian or bisexual, that certainly has its implications. Or we have societal issues like that we all faced one way or the other. COVID, okay, which was you know, over the edge for a lot of people.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Very isolated. And you can imagine if you have a mental health issue on top of that, oh my God. Right.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And, and we'll address that in, you know, in, in one of our shows that we have the policy stuff for sure, because I can, I can only just begin to imagine the, the implications that, um, policy has for, for treatment. And, um, Or intervention. And you talk about calling somebody on the phone or even a Zoom type thing.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I can't imagine that that perhaps is the same thing as like a in-person therapy session, okay? Where if you need to, you can hug a person or what have you. The personal interaction is compromised, but it's better than nothing. For sure.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Right, right, right. They can complement one another for sure. So final thoughts for kind of this state of the art, kind of the gestalt of it all here before we go into our next show with you on looking at different population groups, Mike.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
It's great seeing you as well. So let me kick this off. I'm going to ask this, maybe it seems like a simple question, but it probably has a longer answer. What, Mike, what have you seen? I mean, you've been in this arena for a long time now. So what have you really seen in the area of mental health over the years?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Yeah, yeah. You know, I could argue the same thing, you know, in the cardiovascular arena. You know, it's just like, yes, things have gotten better, but we're still, it's still like, you know, the number one cause of death in this country. So what's going on? You know, where are we going here? So, you know, things do get better.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Absolutely. Absolutely. You nailed it on that one. So, all right. So for our listening audience. This is the first of a trifecta of shows on mental health. And I greatly appreciate your insights, Mike, on all of this. And if need be, we'll do more, you know, as things progress. Our next show, interestingly enough, is on pediatric emergency room concerns.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And a very, very dear colleague of mine and neighbor turns out that many mental health patients are showing up in the ER where they aren't treated for ER oriented things, but they need to stay there because they have nowhere else to go. So, I mean, talk about a mental health issue. Oh my goodness. All right. So all these things kind of meld together. So stay tuned for that for our next show.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So for our listening audience, Thank you for coming to this particular show, listening in. Again, it's the first of three. And keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I mean, there's got to be some torches that we all should be carrying, things that have changed, things that have gotten better, things that have gotten worse. What's your perspective on it?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
is first of all, thank all the people that are involved with Health Chatter, Manny Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Sheridan Nygaard, do all our great background research for us and give Clarence and I some good talking points to discuss with our guests. And if we do it by ourselves, even they give us some good talking points as well. Then in addition,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Yeah. That's a huge change. Yeah. You know, it's really interesting because, you know, in my notes that I got from our crew, The first word that I put on my list of questions besides this one was stigma. And there was a stigma. There still is. There still is that stigma. It's like if people are labeled with a mental health disease, it's kind of like not good.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
It's just like people have this attitude about it. And it's unfortunate.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
That's okay. Hey, I do appreciate this conversation. As you were talking, I had to go back to my childhood when I thought about this term. We didn't talk about mental health. We talked about being crazy. And everything went underneath that particular title. And so as you were saying, if you were crazy, people just left you alone.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
But there's so many different things that impact our mental health that we could never even thought about, so many different types of conditions. And so could you talk about some of the conditions that are involved with mental health issues so that people can get a better understanding of these are some of the things that do affect your mental health?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
We have Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager, who's second to none. He does all the logistics behind the shows, keeps everything going technically. Then we have Human Partnership, which is our community sponsor. That is a great, great organization. I recommend our listening audience. Check them out. You can go to our website.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Let me ask you something, Mike. You know, all the years, and you've been involved in it for a long time. Talk to me a little bit about communication around mental health. How is it that we've, you know, certainly we have venues today for communication that lend itself to quick information. Okay, maybe not always accurate information. But tell me how communication vehicles has either helped
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
the mental health issue or has been detrimental to it?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
yeah so let me let me ask this question because i you know it's it you know and and and i come from a community perspective so you know i get all these i get all these comments people will say about different different kind of topics but what percentage of our population really is affected by mental health issues you know i mean percentage of which populations you say Yeah, just in general.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I just want to do just something in general. And the reason why I ask that question is that a lot of times people come up with all kinds of data. They say half of us have mental health issues. And we know that that's not true. But I know that there's some specific population, some specific information that we need to know to help to address some of the myths about this particular issue.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So you can just, wherever you want to go. I'm okay with that. Wherever you want to go, because we're going to touch somebody someplace.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
healthchatterpodcast.com, and also link to their website and see all the great things they do in the community to address health issues, frankly, for all of us. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, my great colleague and partner in crime as it relates to health chatter. We've been chatting a lot about a variety of different health issues. This is, I think, our 55th show, Mike.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I mean, this is a very, very interesting topic. And I think, like I said, it touches on so many parts about populations and communities. There's just so many misconceptions, thoughts, and
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So we see, let's talk a little bit about acute and chronic. So, like, for instance, people who, let's just say, who have had a heart attack, okay, or heart failure, all of a sudden, they can easily go into a depressive state, or they can have anxiety about that.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Yeah, you know, I know this is a very difficult conversation, you know, and I thank you for both for entering into it. And I am a community person, very interested in your community as well as my community. It's been difficult having conversations and like what we're having right now.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
You know, people are somewhat hesitant about having, I mean, I call it eyeball to eyeball conversations because there are people in our communities that really do care. But the question for us is what are the low hanging fruits that we can do, I mean, to assist you in this work? I mean, that's really where we're coming from. And so help me to be able to share with others What we can do.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Yeah. So first of all, let me commend MDH for the creation Amen. But what took him so long? Yeah. The contribution of the Native community has been phenomenal for a long time. And so anyway, it's 2024. OK, so we're grateful for that. But Sam mentioned the fact about getting information out. But I would like to have doable information, OK?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Because so many times when we talk about different communities, we always talk about how bad it is, right? what I would like to see for me as a community person is what is it that we can do to assist, to help, to make it better? You know what I mean? In a doable way, because we have so many members that are not clinicians. So many of our members are not doctors.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I mean, so, you know, many times when we do this information out there, it's directed at that level. But there are a lot of people that are not at that level that would love to be allies. So help us to learn how we could be allies as well. Give us something that's doable for us. And I think that we can then begin to see some movement. So that's just my thoughts.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
That would be the goal. Can I ask a question? And this is me now, I told you, I'm just out there. I think the thing for me is that I'm not sure how to get invited. to these places where I can learn more. I think that many times when I think about it, I mean, I'm very open, but I'm not sure where I can enter the space and the place. Those people that want to do that, how can they do that?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I mean, you say, well, just go to the powwow, go to this. That's a whole different kind of thing. Is there a way for us as a community to be able to be more proactive in terms of inviting people to learn more in a safe manner? So that's my community comment. How do we do that?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Thanks, Sheridan. Here's what I'd like to know. Is there a brochure or something about 10 tips for learning about the American Indians here in Minnesota? I mean, you know, just 10 things that we need to know. I mean, you know, 10 places we need to go. I mean, just like Sheridan was talking about those spaces. I mean, a great restaurant. I just need a starting point.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So I'm just throwing it out there to say that I am more than interested. I'm sure a lot of other people are more than interested in learning. But is there a space, a place where we can just say, these are 10 tips or 10 places or 10 something where we can get started in this journey?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Well, no, no, no. I don't know about that, but I look forward to partnering with you if you let me. I'm more than willing to do that and to share resources or be engaged in community conversations. Let me know.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I don't know my best, but here. First of all, Stan, acknowledge the fact that we have such different kinds of health disparities among different groups of people. How do you... would you explain to us this complicated history that the Native American community has had with the U.S. government?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Because I think that part of, you know, whether we talked about the data, we talked about the narratives, a lot of this stuff comes back to the relationship between the groups and the U.S. government. Could you just kind of give us a short history of what you just share with us? this complicated history between your communities and the US government?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So how can we enter into this question then? I mean, the thing for me, and I thank you for that. I think, you know, you mentioned the term sovereign nation, those kinds of things. How do we, those of us who care but don't know how to care, how do we enter into this conversation about this issue of Native American health?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So let me follow up. And I'm a prober now. Did I say that before we started? I'm a prober. OK. You talked about there are 11 sovereign nations in Minnesota. But is it more than 80% of the people, Native American community, they live outside of the reservation? Is that correct? How then do we address that along with this whole issue around American Indian health?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Because if they're not in the sovereign nation, they're here in the urban communities, how then can we work together to make something happen to address those issues?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So Hytham, let me ask you from what you just heard, um, Is that typical as far as initial emergency care for a potential stroke patient?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's show is a special show on a stroke survivor. And you'll hear his story. We'll get to that in a minute. Previously, beforehand, we had done a show on stroke and all the information that you, the listening audience, should really know about it, the different types of stroke, how to prevent a stroke, treat a stroke and manage it.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And they are our sponsor for Health Chatter. So many thanks to them. You can see more information about them at their website, humanpartnership.org, O-R-G. So thank you to everybody. Today, we have two guests with us, Dr. Haitham Hussain, who worked with us on the previous show on stroke. And he was the one who recommended that we also talk to a patient. So Haitham, thank you for coming.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Wow. Okay. All right. I could, to a certain extent, trying to put myself in your shoes, I can understand your thought process. It's just like, what the heck here? It's like, you're telling me to come back now? What's going on here?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So let me ask you, Haitham, given this time frame that we're talking about here, an 18-hour time frame, was the window lost as far as providing... necessary medication for an ischemic stroke?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
helping us put this show together. And I'm gonna turn it over to you because I have a sense that you have a nice relationship with our other guests. So I'll let you introduce them.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So at some point, you did move forward, right? I did. Okay. All right. So let's take it from that point. whereby you came to the conclusion that I need some medical attention or further medical attention?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
It's like, is there black medication and is there white medication?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So, you know, here's partially a takeaway for the audience, too. It doesn't matter if it's a stroke. It could be any medical condition here. There should be equity. There should be the same kind of care for one as it is for the other, okay? It's just the way it should be, okay? We'll get back to stroke in just a second. Clarence, are you there? I don't know if he can connect the end.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
He's having a little bit of problem connecting it, but let me, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. I just got back into the cities.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So, you know, Tony, you also mentioned a really, really important aspect here, and then I'll let you take the mic here, but is this idea of trust. And fortunately, you were able to create trust in, in frankly, a pretty quick manner with, with Hytham. Okay.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And that, but that even took some conversation from what, from what I understand in order for you to gain that in order for you to proceed with the care that you needed. Okay. Take it from there.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
I'll tell you what disturbs me, and I'm glad you're telling the story behind it, is that is the fact of taking advantage of a medical situation, okay, where that needed to be foremost dealt with, okay, as opposed to, oh, by the way, you know, you should be part of this initiative. No. So what comes out of this, and Tony, maybe you can respond to this,
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
is it's one thing that the care that you got one way or the other, but it's also the mental anguish.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Okay, and I don't think that that's, well, obviously, I don't think that's fair, but I greatly, greatly appreciate the fact that you're telling the story because you get a sense of the mental anguish that you were going through, besides the actual medical condition that you were trying to deal with. Go ahead.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So here's, I think the unfortunate part of this is the context of how these all kind of came together. On one hand, you're dealing with a stroke. On the other hand, you're dealing with somebody who's saying, come back to the hospital. On the other hand, you're also talking about somebody who's saying, be part of an experiment. And you know what?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
context, the contextual framework that surrounded your particular case here, Tony, in my estimation, is unfortunate and wrong. Okay. But what is really positive about it is how we can learn from it, how we can learn as providers of care, how we can learn as human beings. And I don't care what color you are. That's why I I really promote human partnership, H-U-E-M-A-N.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
It doesn't matter what color we are, when it really comes down to these types of things. Clarence, some final thoughts here.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So, you know, some real clear takeaways links back to the first show that we had with you, Haitham. And that is truly everybody be aware of the signs and symptoms of a stroke.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Good enough. Exactly. Yeah. If you just think you might be Call 911. It's better to be safe than sorry. Tony, I don't know how I can underscore my thanks to you for sharing your story. There's good that's come from it. And maybe that's the best I can tell you. People have become more aware. People are becoming more educated. And it's through people like you, that we get better.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Absolutely. Yeah, there's the big picture. There's the big picture issues and there's what I call the immediacy issues. And we're trying to create the balance here. Thank you so much. You know, I... What I can say is that I hope you can use this podcast for further educational purposes going forward. For our listening audience, I hope you've learned a lot. I know I have.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
This is a dynamic duo that we heard from today that have a very strong message. And I hope you all heard it. As a final reminder to our listening audience, get vaccinated. We're getting into the fall season here, and people are spending more time indoors, which increases community spread of all these different illnesses that we're trying to get a hand on.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So it's a good time to get vaccinated for flu, for COVID, for RSV, for pneumococcal disease. Check in with your physician to make sure that You're a candidate in the right timing for those vaccinations for you. Our next show will be on motivation in health. How is it that we get motivated to change our health habits? Do we have to be scared into it before we do it? Or do we embrace prevention?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
It's great. It's great having you. And so let's start. I start at the beginning, you know, uh, started at, you know, I, I suppose when you started maybe feeling symptoms, that might be, that might be a starting point.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
But today will be special because we'll hear from somebody who's gone through it. So stay with us for a second. We've got a great crew, as always, that keeps us going and gives us all the background information we need, does all the technical work for us. We have Sheridan Nygaard. who's doing our recording today. She also does some of our background research for our team and also our marketing.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So let me let me ask you something, Tony. Do you, at that point, do you think, or maybe I should say prior to you having that episode, were you aware of the signs and symptoms of a stroke? Were you knowledgeable about any of it or were you kind of forced into dealing with it because of what was happening to you?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, also three of our researchers. Matthew Campbell, who normally does our production stuff. He's overseas right now. He'll be back, I believe, next week. So thanks to everybody. You guys are really, really wonderful. It's really a It's a pleasure working with this crew because they really know how to do it. And it's really, really nice.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So for our listening audience, I'm going to try to link a little bit. between what we're hearing now and what we talked about in our show with you previously, Haitham. Time is of the essence, okay? If you think you are having a stroke, you call 911. And there's some really good reasons for it because time is of the essence. And Haitham, you can talk about that a little bit more in detail.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
But the truth of the matter is if you get into an ambulance and if they think you truly are having a stroke, they can warn the ER and they can get you in immediately without wasting any time whatsoever. For the listening audience, 911, emergency, don't wait. This is the opportunity to really hopefully save lives.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Sure, we could do that, and then we'll circle back to Tony. Go ahead.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Let's pick it up, Tony. So now you're in the ambulance.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones. Clarence and I have been doing this for a while. We're great colleagues. We love doing this. We love chatting about different topics in health. And today's topic is no different. So thank you, Clarence. And then also Human Partnership is our partner. is our community-oriented group that looks at a variety of different health issues in the community.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So so my question is this. And again, you know, help me help me understand. Years ago, you know, when we had our coroner pharmacist. At that point, could pharmacists provide vaccinations? Could they provide assistance with blood pressure monitoring? Were they able or did they provide insights into, for instance, smoking cessation like they do today?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
I'd also like to thank Human Partnership, our sponsor for these shows, great community health organization in the state of Minnesota, although I believe that they're Their programmatic insights and programs in general have great implications for just about anyone around the United States. You can check them out at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Could they have done that back then or did the scope of practice expand?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So let me ask you kind of a complimentary question. In order to be licensed, today as a pharmacist, whether it be in Minnesota or any state in the country, have licensing requirements changed as well, given the fact that there are more responsibilities that are being given to pharmacists today?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. So Rhonda, your insight into this?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
And as well, you can check us out, healthchatterpodcast.com, where you'll see all of our research for our shows online.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah. You know, hand in hand, Clarence, with your comment is communication. So, you know, one thing that's kind of struck me is the communication that a pharmacist has with a patient has morphed into a variety of different things where they've really, almost to a sense, a pharmacist and a pharmacy has become kind of a community health program in and of itself.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
You know, besides dispensing the medications, they also assist on a lot of things, which... When I was growing up, that didn't exist. And then the other component communication that I wanted to touch on and ask you about is communication with healthcare providers, like physicians, okay?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So when they prescribe, you know, it's oftentimes, frankly, the pharmacist that really understands a patient and all the drugs that they're on and the possible interactions. So how does that communication happen with a physician, for instance, to, you know, maybe pull up a red flag for a patient?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Hello, everyone. Welcome to today's show of Health Chatter. We're going to be talking about a word, actually, that's become kind of in everybody's lingo of late, pharmageddon, which is kind of interesting, but obviously it reflects what's going on in the pharmacy world. We've got a great guest with us, and hopefully we'll have a guest that comes on board within the show itself.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So let me, let me bring up a couple of things here. I kind of want to circle back to communication a little bit. Medical records are, versus like pharmacy records. Okay, so do they talk at all? So like, you know, my medical record just personally is in Epic. Okay, so does the pharmacy records in my pharmacy talk with that system or are they completely separate or what?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, another thing, you know, we'd be remiss if we didn't at least touch on it. And Clarence and I have agreed that we need to do a whole show on this because there's such interest around it. And we can use this as an example. New drugs that are coming out. All right. And one of them that's high on everybody's list are these weight loss drugs.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So give us your sense of weight loss medications, their use, their benefits, maybe the dangers that we have to look out for. And then kind of a sidebar on this is, are medications getting to the point where it fits everything for everybody and you don't have to worry about gaining weight because you can take a drug that'll basically control it for you?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So many. Yeah, you know, I guess, you know, maybe a real takeaway is, you know, question, you know, the quick fixes out of the gate. You know, maybe, you know, there's a lot of different variables that any person should consider going forward. But we'll get more into that in an actual show. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
You know, one thought that I had, I remember distinctly when there was research that was done where the researchers asked people, you know, who do they trust in the, in the, you know, in their care, their healthcare. And always number one came out one way or the other. They're, their primary care physician, if they had a trusted one, truly.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
But then right up there, right next was their pharmacist, right there with their, and even given all these changes that we're all witnessing, I still believe that. I really do. I think that there's some kind of a bond between a patient, and their pharmacists, really. And I don't see that being compromised, at least perhaps that's my hope. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Well, it's been great. And this is only perhaps the tip of the iceberg. As we alluded to in their show, we'll have a show on weight loss medications because that's really kind of high on people's radar screen right now and of interest. So stay tuned to that for our listening audience. Our next show will be on hospice care, which also, you know, we all face it one way or the other.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So stay tuned for that. Thank you to our guests. I greatly appreciate your insights. Second to none. So with that, I'd like to say to everybody, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So stay tuned for that. I'd like to compliment and highlight our great staff. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do background research for us. That's really second to none. It provides Clarence and I with some ideas and talking points that we hope to bring up with our guests that we have on the show. So thank you to them. Sheridan Nygaard also provides us with research and
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Yeah. So, you know, I remember, you know, Clarence and I have a little bit of gray hair. If we have hair, it's mostly gray. So we have some history here. And I remember distinctly when pharmacists got their degrees, they would get a Bachelor of Science degree. Okay. And then at some point, and I don't know why, What point that was or what led to it?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
There was, I guess, a requirement that if you're going to become a pharmacist, you would get a PharmD degree. So can you talk about that a little bit, kind of how all that came about?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
So here's the other thing that's kind of that I guess a little sand about the corner drugstore. It's like it doesn't.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
exist anymore and i remember very very distinctly um you know with our young children and everything our pharmacist was almost like a neighborhood health care provider um you know everybody knew him we could walk in and you know pick up some medication if we if we had to or just sit and chat gone Absolutely gone.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
I also have two cousins out in California who are, they're retired now, but were pharmacists as well. And they were in that mode, that kind of corner pharmacy. So what happened there?
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
And it didn't happen overnight, right? I mean, it just, it kind of took a while.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
marketing expertise. And then our production manager is Matthew Campbell, who gets our shows out to you, the listening audience, in a beautiful format. So thank you to all of you. You're great. I would like to also... recognize my co-host, Clarence Jones.
Health Chatter
Pharmageddon
Whether you guys realize or not, we chat offline quite a bit to keep this show, Health Chatter, vibrant for all you, the listening audience, and we share great ideas going forward. He's a wonderful conversational expert, and I've appreciated his insight these years. So thank you to you, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
HIV came to the forefront. And actually I was working very, very closely with Mike Osterholm at the time, and we were training physicians on the whole issue. And it really came to the forefront for me, some of the homosexual nuances, I guess it'd be the best way to put this, insights, uncomfortableness came to the forefront back then. And I'm saying, whoa, wait a minute.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And I remember thinking that to a certain extent, the physicians themselves were concerned about their own health. and what was going on at the time. And it really came to the forefront for me, this idea of labels and stereotypes linked at that time with a very, very hard, health issue that we all had to face.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Going historically back, if you go back to the ancient Chinese, they only gave their health care to those that were in the higher castes So there was an identification that was going on there. There were labels that were going on back then that if you were in the higher caste, you were afforded healthcare. That changed ironically with the ancient Hebrews that they thought that
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
health was basically for all. And that's where truly health for all and also a public health stance came into effect by virtue of many things that were going on in the environment at the time. The other thing that's bothersome to me is that a lot of the things that we're dealing with health-wise have an unnecessary, in my mind, sexual connection to them.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And I think that for many providers of care, that might, it might, I don't know, it might give a negative component to our delivery of care and public health initiatives. I think what has helped is people are out front, almost really out front in saying, yes, I am lesbian. Yes, I am gay or bisexual or trans or queer.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
they're upfront and willing to state it upfront and say, geez, you know, it's okay. And you guys, you guys, everybody has to get used to the idea that we are part of humankind too. And so I think that that's a statement that's being made by these communities, whereby if I have to be labeled, so be it. And I'm going to be upfront with it.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
So those are some things that have been popping in my head all these years. Any other thoughts from Sheridan? I know you always have some great insights.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
I volunteer at a local hospital in the Twin Cities here. And from time to time, I'll see patients that frankly describe themselves particular ways. And it dawned on me, does that affect how health is delivered? And frankly, the question kind of bothered me. And then it came, I called it labeling at that point.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Yeah. You know, um, thank you, uh, Sharon and Deandra for those comments. Um, Matthew, you bring up a really interesting concept in our chat. He says here, I think labels can sometimes create community when it can't be found otherwise. You want to comment on that? I think it's a great point.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on stereotypes and labeling and how health is affected by it. Should be an interesting show. It's with our gang, the Health Chatter gang. Everybody's going to chime in as best they can with some stories or ideas about this subject. It certainly is an interesting one.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And then when we were discussing the whole concept, I think it was Barry, I think you brought up the idea of maybe it's how we create stereotypes. And so I think we kind of put these both together. Aaron did our background, research on this. And so thank you, Erin. And she provided an interesting little story. And she recommended that I read it. And I did read it.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
You know, thanks, Clarence. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. You know, I remember fondly when I first met Clarence. It's just like, you know, we've been kindred souls, brothers, colleagues, friends, you name it, since then. And, you know, if I was blind, you know, I'd still...
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
think of of Clarence in in such great ways and um and frankly the same goes through with our whole health chatter team here I mean it's just like you know I can't tell you um you know who you are how you identify yourselves or or for that matter you know how you go about living life Frankly, I appreciate because it's made me as a person stronger and more insightful.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
You know, and in many ways, you know, hopefully our Health Chatter team can help set an example for others. I mean, we come from so many different backgrounds, just all of us here. And hopefully that's a wake up for a lot of people. You know, all of you, I want to bring this up. I have noticed, you know, in my career, you know, certainly with the email, you know, how people sign off.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And it's important that they, you know, for some people, it's important that they sign off that, you know, he, she, they, it, lesbian, gay, you know, it's an identifier in your actual email. Thoughts about that? I mean, is it, go ahead, Matthew, take it away.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Right, right, right. So, you know, one thing I've also noticed is that, um, people identify not just by one thing like sexual orientation or pronouns or whatever, but also by religion. Okay. I'm Jewish. Okay. I'm Catholic, I'm Protestant, I'm whatever. How do you think those labels might affect a person's health, how people perceive them, how they look at them, et cetera? Any thoughts on that?
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And I want to share it with you, the listening audience. And it was from a LinkedIn. And this person said, I attended a wedding a while back of a beautiful young couple. It would have and could have been a beautiful wedding, but I'm afraid the pastor conducting the wedding ceremony spoiled it for me and for several guests.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Yeah, and I agree with that. Any other thoughts on labeling, stereotyping in other arenas, like religion, for instance? Any thoughts on that?
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
You know, I think, you know, to a certain extent, all this stereotyping labeling, um, is really connected to perspectives. And what's your perspective on this person vis-a-vis yourself? How is it that you compare and contrast with one person or another? How is it that you embrace differences, whether it be cultural,
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
whether it be sexual, whether it be community, et cetera, how is it that you embrace them? And how is it that those levels of embracement have changed? I think labeling and stereotypes also is connected to good, bad, or indifference, the political arena right now. And to me, that's, to be honest with you, sad. Barry.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
You see, he carried on and on about wearing makeup, having a drink, or having tattoos are all sins. I wear makeup, I have tattoos, and naturally being At a wedding, we toasted the bride and groom with champagne. The hell we go. This got me thinking about stereotypes and labels we give people. How our prejudices can prevent us from getting to know and understand another person.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
So that's- I agree with that. Actually, I agree with everything that everybody said today. It's great.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
You know, it's interesting you bring that up. I have been promoting this. I said, wouldn't it be great if we had a worldwide chill-out day where everybody just sits down, relaxes for a second, and realizes... What Clarence has touted through H-U-E-M-A-N, that we're all in this world for a relatively short period of time. Let's get together and be decent to one another. put decisiveness away.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
It doesn't matter. I could disagree with you, but that doesn't mean that you still aren't a good person. You know what I mean? We can't agree on everything. So you bring up a really important point, Matthew.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
How we allow society to dictate what is right, good, and normal. Interesting perspective on that. Matthew, I know you have a story that you said you'd be willing to share with our listening audience and our podcast today too.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Yeah. And I respect it. And I respect it. I do too. I do too. Maybe behind all of this is a simple smile. if we can all smile and think about how it is that we can put our arms around each other and appreciate each other for what we all bring to the human equation, maybe that's what it's all about in the end. So carry on, everybody carry on with some positivity going forward.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
Our next show coming up will be on telehealth, which is also an interesting subject. Certainly post, you know, the COVID craziness that we've all faced, but it certainly has implications for health. So in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
We have a great crew, Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, do great background research for us on all of these shows, as does Sharon and Nygaard, who also does our marketing. We have Matthew Campbell, who's our person behind the scenes, who does all our technical work, getting these shows out to you, the listening audience with great music attached. So thank you to you as well.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
You know, I think what I'd like to do is kind of do a little bit of a round robin here and maybe some insights that each one of us has experienced. So let's start out with Barry. Barry, do you have any thoughts on this from, you know, you obviously were a practicing physician and so Just in general, your thoughts about stereotyping and labeling.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
We have Barry Baines, who's our medical advisor. on our show today and also provides insights from a medical perspective. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, my great colleague who helps me with these shows. We co-host these shows together with the help of Human Partnership, who is a great community health organization. highly recommend our listening audience check them out.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
So, Barry, I got to ask you something, and I'm sure you can reflect on this. When you took the, you know, the Hippocratic Oath, okay, and, you know, what went through your mind? It's just like, I don't care. It doesn't go through your mind as a new physician. It doesn't matter who you are. As far as I'm concerned, You are a human being.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And if you are in the need of care, I'm a physician here to assist. Does that go through your mind? Or do you bring some of your own prejudices, your own ideas into it?
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
That's a great point. You know, Clarence, you know, I know Clarence, um, We've talked about this from time to time with the work that we've done together in the Black community. And we have talked a lot about how that population is at risk for a lot of different things health-wise.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
And I just wonder whether or not the labeling or the stereotype is how it's affecting that population or stories that you've come across.
Health Chatter
Stereotypes & Labels
It's an interesting perspective that they take addressing health from a community perspective. You can check them out at humanpartnership.org and check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. You can see all our research. You can provide a review, insights, questions, et cetera, on our website. So feel free to visit it. So today, Show on stereotypes and labeling. This is interesting.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
and you can also check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. All of our research is available on our website, as well as our shows are transcribed as well, so you can read them or listen to them, whatever your preference is. So thank you to all of you, the listening audience, and everybody involved with the show. So today we have...
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, it's interesting. You know, in my career in public health, I always carried the... the torch of how it is that we as public health professionals could meet with medical professionals on the bridge. We can meet together and solve things. And there was a point in time, and maybe it still exists, where the distinctions between medicine and
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
public health have to be clearly communicated to the public so that they really understand the difference. But I will say this, that I'll go out on a limb on this one, that perhaps the best colleagues that I had in my career were those, and to your point, were physicians with a public health background. where they really got it.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
They truly understood the need for medical care, perhaps at the individual level, but then they also understood health at a public health level as well. And it always struck me as a wonderful combination to really communicate effectively with the public. So I've got... This is kind of history, I guess, a little bit.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, when I think about all the different arenas in public health, the School of Public Health, You know, like my background was in maternal and child health. Okay. And oh, my God, you know, there's maternal and child health. There's dental health. There's public health administration. There's health education. It goes on and on and on and on. Okay.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Do you still see those arenas as being vital? Or do you see the arenas changing? In other words, you know, should there be a, you know, I'll just say a major in maternal and child health. should there be a major in any of these things? Or are we looking at a different grouping of needs going forward?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So do you see maybe new arenas in the School of Public Health? Let's throw one out. Maybe a degree where your focus is on disparities, just disparities, looking at disparities, as opposed to thinking that each one of the existing arenas, there's kind of a line item of disparities. Maybe pull that out and make it a major within public health.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Dr. Pettigrew with us, Melinda Pettigrew, who's the new dean of the School of Public Health at the University of Minnesota. So welcome, welcome, welcome. It's nice to have you. So she's currently the dean. She started just this last January. Previously, deputy dean at Yale University and an epidemiology professor there as well.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, good point. Aaron, I see you've joined us. Aaron is one of our other researchers. Thanks for joining us. Go ahead, Clarence.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, so again, you know, I'll put on my history hat here. The state health department used to be housed in a building literally right on campus there, like two blocks away from the School of Public Health on Delaware Street. one of the reasons why was it was thought, and by the way, that was the only state agency at the time that was that close to the university.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And it was thought that it was important for the health, the state health department to be integrated as best as possible with the health sciences at the, at the, at the university of Minnesota. And then in, you know, call it political wisdom or whatever, it moved to St. Paul. So it would be near the political arena of things. But it begs this question going forward.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
How is it that the School of Public Health with all the different arenas that exist in it, how is it that it will continue to link with the state health department local health departments? How is it that it'll link with, you brought it up with business, education, how is it that you, I guess you as the head of it all are gonna help to foster those linkages going forward?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Shatter. And today we have really a special guest with us. You'll hear from her in a minute. But we're going to be talking about the future and vision of public health and really around the concept of public health education. Good topic for today. We've got a great crew. Always like to give them some high marks and credit.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
She's published many research publications, especially around respiratory tract infections, etc., recipient of many honors and awards. And I'm sure the selection committee noted those when they selected you as our new dean. So welcome. PhD in epidemiology from Yale. And so she went out there to get her PhD.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So let me bring this one up because I'm pretty sure in order to graduate with any degree in the School of Public Health, students are still required to do internships. Okay. Many, certainly in my career and also Clarence in your career as well, would link with us. Okay.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, at the state health department, you know, what kind of, you know, can I do an internship in cardiovascular or can I do an internship at a community health center or with a community oriented program with this kind of broad swath of things that are going on in public health, where do you see students going for internships now?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And would they be appropriate in order for them to get their degrees?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
her doctorate, but she was in the Midwest when she got her undergraduate degree at Grinnell. So welcome back to the Midwest. So thank you for, thanks for being with us. It's great to have you. So, okay. So, you know, to a certain extent, what really drove us to have you on the show, obviously, is our new dean, but also the concept of public health
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I can tell you right now, um, The students that I worked with at the state health department were great. I mean, they were really, really. Also, I could add on to that, it helps with their networking. They get to know people in the field that way as well. So it's truly a win-win in that sense.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
And I think that needs a lot of work.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, there's a lot of themes that come up in the field of public health, like the Surgeon General is really on to, and we had a show just recently on the theme of loneliness. And the reason I bring that up is, you know, things like mental health and public health, you know, as a field. And given all the craziness that's going on in the world,
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
people are really affected and it's affecting their mental health. Just think about war, or you think about violence, or you think about the economics of everything. And so I see public health education embracing some of these themes of today. that frankly, I have a feeling will be around with us for a while. So another question I have are grants.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Okay, because, you know, I know in the School of Public Health, you know, researchers, certainly, for instance, at the state health departments, even in community health, I know that Clarence and Human Partnership is connected with, you know, grants, etc. How is it that, you know, you integrate grant work? Okay, you know, going forward. And obviously what goes side by side with that is education.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So you get these grants, you bring in students to help you, or you bring in other entities to work with you, but there's this big kind of overlapping umbrella of education around grants. So how is it that you see grants being integrated into the whole works?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
and education, and it really came to the forefront, obviously, when we were dealing with COVID. It was really kind of, okay, how do we communicate? How do we educate it? Et cetera. But for sure, I've always adhered to the fact, and many of us in public health have, that successful public health, oftentimes is invisible to the public, correct? Absolutely.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I agree with that a lot. So let's circle back a little bit to from an education standpoint and let's call it just lessons learned. What do you think the lessons learned at least so far? have been and what implications it have going forward for education for students based on the pandemic.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I mean, we were just kind of, to be honest with you, we were just kind of thrust, you know, public health professionals were kind of just thrust into this response mode. And it's just going forward, you know, just so we don't trip over one another, with all the logistics again, because it will happen again sometime. So what do you think we've learned from that that have implications for teaching?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
You know, Clarence brought up a great point before. Excuse me one sec, Clarence. And that was this, you know, who in the hell are public health professionals? Okay. And then, so that's number one. And then number two is all of a sudden you're thrust into this pandemic. And it's, to your point, it's like, why should I trust you? I don't even know what you guys do. in general.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So maybe we have to get kind of down to the base core of trying to communicate effectively, truly what public health professionals do. And then, you know, people can say, aha, great. I've got that in my head now. Now, all of a sudden the pandemic hits and say, oh yeah, okay, you guys, let's help us now. Okay. We know who you are. We trust you. Take it from there. Clarence.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
I mean, it's just like what you don't see, and it makes it really good, you know, like clean water. Guess what? There's a lot that goes into, you know, for instance, like clean water. So we have a lot of things to talk about. Clarence, you got a comment.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Thank you. Hopefully health chatter helps that. you could certainly use this as a mechanism to get your ideas and thoughts out, even on different thematic things in the field of public health. All you have to do is raise your hand to Stan and Clarence and say, hey, we need to do a show with you on whatever, and we'll be happy to help in that way to be able to get more people
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
education out, not only from a student level, but community level, professional level, continuing education level, whatever it may be. Last thoughts, Clarence.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Thank you. Yeah. Melinda last, last thoughts from you.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Absolutely. And again, you can connect with us and say, hey, do you guys know somebody that I can talk to about... whatever it may be. And chances are, believe it or not through health chatter, we've, we've probably talked to some of those people. So we'd be happy to, to provide that, that service to you. Also, if there's any, um,
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
information that you would like to share with us that we could put on our website besides the background research that our team has put, we can include that as well. So just, you know, shoot us an email with anything that you would like to include. So thank you so much. It's been a pleasure meeting you, albeit via Zoom call. But you have a great smile and keep smiling.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
It'll be really nice to have you in our community. For those of you in our listening audience, I want to thank you all for listening in. Our next show will be on healthcare access with ironically, one of our professor colleagues from the School of Public Health. So stay tuned for that. So in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's interesting. I, um, you know, I was, I was involved with, um, the COVID response when I was at the state health department and, um, oh my God, it's just like, all right, do we really worry? These were some of the questions we had.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Do we have to really worry about informing the public about public health when we're trying to intervene and trying to get this thing banished? So we were dealing with two major things and it became an angst for the professionals, but hopefully to your point, people became more knowledgeable. So this is one thing that I noted over the years.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
When I was teaching in the School of Public Health, oftentimes we had some undergrads were taking some courses, especially the education undergraduates were taking some courses because they were required to get some health background in order to get an education degree. But yet, when I was teaching
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
As we do these shows, our researchers are Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard. Sheridan also does the marketing for our show and also does some recording. She'll be recording this show, as a matter of fact. Our production manager is Matthew Campbell, who gets all our shows out to you, the listening audience. Co-host for the show with me, as always, is...
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Basically, what you were pursuing in the School of Public Health was either an MPH or an MHA or a master's oriented professional degree or even a PhD. More recently, however, they've added undergraduate. So I was wondering, all right, so tell me your perspective on this. It's like you can get just about any degree you want. in the School of Public Health now.
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
So how will that help us going forward?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Yeah, that's a really good point. So for those who go into the field of public health, where would undergraduates mostly be going to? Would they be going to community health programs? Where would master's level, where would PhD level be going to in the work environment?
Health Chatter
The Future and Vision of Public Health Education
Clarence Jones, we have a good time doing these shows. And it's good chatting that we've done over all of these shows. So thank you to you, Clarence. And then, of course, there's Human Partnership, a community health organization, sponsors our shows. They do great work out in the community. I recommend you see, you check out their website at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
He and I are having a lot of fun doing this. We chat a lot, whether it be on the show or off the show. You guys have no clue how many times we might talk to each other, at least during the week, about various things. So he's a Really one of my dearest of dears as far as colleagues. And he's a great friend as well. So thank you, Clarence, as always. It's great, great, great, great.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So Clarence, you're one. You're a CHW. What do you think about all this?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Yeah. So, you know, there are a lot of political realities around this. One, one question that public might have is centered around kind of the politics of it all. If you want to call it, that is like, okay, are, for instance, CHWs licensed, you know, like a medical doctor or a nurse or whatever, or are they registered or are they, and how, How are they trained?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And to the point whereby a patient or an individual needs to have, or at least would think that they need to have that kind of information in their head in order to bring their trust level up a notch in order to be able to work with a community health worker. So Angela, what do you think about that?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Okay, so let's talk first thing about training and licensing and all that kind of stuff, and then how your scope of practice as a field differs enough so that people can help, you can help people make that distinction. So training and education, all that stuff, let's start with that first. Angela?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on community health workers. And boy, we have a great group of guests today. Actually, this is the first show where we've had multiple guests. So this is going to be a first, but it will be really good. So stay tuned. We'll introduce everybody in a second.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And then there's Human Partnership, who's our community sponsor for this engagement, for Health Chatter, for all our engagements. Wonderful group. in the Twin City metropolitan area that provide useful community-oriented health information for the public. They're a great organization. We encourage you to look them up on our website that has a link to their website.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Let me ask you something. Are community health workers ever hospital-based or are they more at the clinic community level? Let me give you a for instance. Okay. So I see orthopedic patients and You know, from time to time, some of these patients need help instead of going home, going to a transitional care facility. Is that an intervention point for a community health worker or not?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So maybe Vanya, you can answer that or help us with that one.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
By the way, you can look up our website at healthchatterpodcast.org. So thank you to everybody. So today we're doing a show on community health workers. For our listening audience, many of you might not even know what a community health worker is or how to utilize their talents. And believe it or not, the United States has kind of slow on the uptake.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Yeah. So it seems to me, hold on one sec, Clarence. So it seems to me the point of contact for a particular patient, at least right now, and you hope that it morphs broader, but at least right now is through a healthcare professional themselves. Am I right or not? In other words, like a physician or a nurse says, you know, Stan, you know, let's say I'm a patient, Stan, you could really
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
be helped by utilizing a community health worker as opposed to me, Stan, knowing that I want a community health worker because I might not know what they are yet. Is that fair or are we morphing more towards everybody kind of knowing? Go ahead, Angela. I see the hand up on that one.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Community health workers are very, very common in other parts of the world, which we'll talk about for sure. So what I'd like to do is have each of our guests, we have one, two, three, four guests with us, five guests with us today. So I'd like to have each of them introduce themselves. So Rachel, you go first.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
You know, for our listening audience, Minnesota is kind of historically pretty much on the cutting edge of community health worker engagement. Although it took a while. I remember back in 2008 when I was at the health department and we got a grant from CDC on how it is that we can use community health workers in a clinic setting in order to engage those that need help with blood pressure control.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So I remember that distinctly. And then it got to the point, it was really interesting. It got to the point where everybody kind of understood what a community health worker was and how they can help.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
But then, you know, the grant was done and then all of a sudden it says, well, wait a minute now, if we have a choice, this is the clinic talking now, if we have a choice of hiring a nurse that can maybe cover that kind of stuff or a community health worker, now keep in mind, this was 2008, we've got to choose a nurse.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And then linked to that, which is the question I'm getting to, is the idea of reimbursement, which was not in the queue at that time. Fortunately, in the state of Minnesota, you can get Medicaid, if I'm not mistaken, Medicaid reimbursement. But let's talk about how it is that, frankly, you guys get paid. Is it through insurance? Is it through...
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
a person just paying you individually, how is it that you guys are paid? Is it through a referral system from a doc or a nurse who refers you? And then consequently, they can put it into the billing, et cetera, et cetera. How is this all kind of work? Who can tackle that one? Kristen, take a stab at it.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So, so, Rachel, maybe you could give us or somebody that let me point to Rachel, can you give us a perspective for our listening audience of, you know, we've been kind of Minnesota centric on the show so far. What, what's going on nationally? I mean, is this, you know, because we have listeners all over the place. What's going on in other states?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Or are we so far ahead of the game that, you know, we just hope that other states catch up? What's going on for the United States as far as community health workers are concerned?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
It's expanding nationally, which is cool. So Clarence, I'm going to put you on the spot, although I don't know if this is a spot, but community. I mean, that's kind of a torch that you carry professionally and how to keep conversations going in a community. Obviously, this has a community perspective to it. We have other professions that are having that tagline as well.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Community pharmacists, community paramedics, et cetera, et cetera. And they each have their, shall we say, professional niche of services. But Clarence, for you, it's like... how is it that you're perceiving your community or the communities that you serve, certainly through HUMAN, how is it that you see the people embracing the services of a community health worker?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So that's really my- I get it. I get it. You know, for our listening audience, you know, what's kind of an underlying theme that I'm hearing here is this idea of trust. Okay. It's easier. You know, it's like, you know, Angela, you said, don't you trust your aunt? And, you know, it's like even titles sometimes create more trust.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So I encourage our listening eyes to listen to the show that Clarence and I did on trust. And then listen to this show. It's a really interesting segue into, you know, what community health workers can do for us. So last thoughts. So let's start with Nasadeer. I mean, if you, all right, so Nasadeer, we've talked about, you know, how to get people
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
more information out to the public, et cetera, about how to utilize community health workers, et cetera. But what's one point that you really want the audience to really know?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
So Rachel, besides saying ditto, what might you add to that?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
You know, I'll tell you if, you know, going through the pandemic when I was at the health department, If we could have, if there was truly a communication infrastructure that was stronger and in place at the time, utilizing, in this case, community health workers as kind of a conduit, oh my God, we would have been...
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
at least in Minnesota, I could claim that we would have been in a much better situation. So hopefully, to your point, Rachel, we've learned from that and we can be more proactive going forward when we have those kinds of situations. Angela, last thought here.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Yeah. You know, these are great points. OK, Kristen. All right. This is your this is your last torch song. Here we go.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And definitely a worthwhile statement. Okay, Clarence. Not only are you my trusted colleague here, but you're also one of them. So let's hear your perspective.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Beautiful. I mean, wow. If we could just encapsulate these last lines in a communication piece, wow, wow, wow, right? I want to thank everybody. This has been really educational, and I hope it's incredibly useful for our listening audience. So thank you once again. So everybody on the health chatter lines here, we've got great shows coming up.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
We have one coming up on a follow-up on suicide and what's going on in the nation. There was a great report that's just come out from the state of Minnesota. We've got three or four shows coming up on mental health. We have Senator John Marty from the Senate coming on a show to talk about health policy. And then imagine this.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Clarence and I are gonna do a personal reflection on our journey so far on Health Chatter. So these are all great shows coming up. Thanks to everybody and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
We have a great group that helps us make these health chatter productions successful. And without them, Clarence and I would be lost for sure. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard are our researchers, put together excellent information for us that guides our thinking today. and our questions and comments for all our shows. So a true thank you to them. They're second to none.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Thank you. Thank you. A doula as well. Wow. We could do a show on that. We should think about that, Clarence. We could do it.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Hold on. We're going to get to you in a second. Just so you know.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Thanks. Thanks to everybody. So Clarence. All right. So I'm going to push it over to you, Clarence, because lo and behold, Clarence is, you know, besides a great colleague, he's also a community health worker. He's also now a doula, which I didn't know. Okay.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
But it never, I'm always amazed because every time I talk to Clarence, he always gives me another surprise. So today the surprise is doula, but we're talking about CHWs. So Clarence, I'm going to let you kick it off, okay?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Here's a kind of getting down to the basics of it all. And, you know, and maybe Kristen, you can respond to this one. It's like, okay. I, frankly, I remember distinctly asking my mother who is now passed away, but she was 93 years old at the time. And she was actually kind of spunky in the, in the all nine yards, but you know, she needed help. assistance of sorts.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
Our production manager is Matthew Campbell. He makes sure that the shows are put out for you, the public, the listening audience. And he makes sure that everything is edited properly and sounds really, really good. So thank you to Matthew. Sheridan Nygaard is our... a marketing guru that helps us get the shows out to more and more people. So thank you to her as well. My co-host is Clarence Jones.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And I asked her at that time, I said, Mom, how about a community health worker? And she looked at me like, you know, excuse me, what the hell is a community health worker? Okay. She had absolutely no clue. So it's obvious that all of you on this show know what it is. Okay. But does everybody else know what it is?
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
And to the point of even, you know, even for myself, I could ask myself, okay, I know, I know what you guys do, but How is it that a patient or just an individual knows to even ask for assistance from a community health worker? That's of course, if they know what a community health worker is. So maybe Kristen, you can reflect on that a little bit.
Health Chatter
Community Health Workers
I said, dear, what do you think? Anything you want to add to that?
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
So thanks, everybody. So here we go. Let's talk about this subject today, burial, funerals, and health. So you know what? I think what maybe I'll do is I'll start this out with get a little bit of a personal reflection on this subject matter from all of us. Barry?
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
It's definitely weird, but... So here's a couple of things that I think are important to bring out. Inevitably... you will go about doing your things in life and then all of a sudden you will hear from somebody, they'll come up and say, hey, did you hear that so-and-so passed away? And it's like a little bit of a shock
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
You might not be real close to that person, but close enough so that you know them, you know of them, you interact with them at one point on and off. And so it causes kind of a, at least for me, it causes kind of an immediate reflection about that person. You might not attend their funeral. And that might be it as far as how you deal with it, but it still hits you.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And it causes us to be, I will say human, more human, connected maybe for that moment in time. Along with it, what I'd like to do is talk about what makes other people comfortable when somebody that has passed away. So for instance, I'll, I'll reflect on this. When my father passed away, I remember many people coming up to me and saying, literally, sorry for your loss.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And I remember thinking about that afterwards. It's like, it's well intent. But I also remember one gentleman who was very, very close to my father. They were good friends. And when we were doing Shiva, you know, after my father passed away, he came into the house and didn't say a word to me. He put his hand on my shoulder, and that was it.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And to this day, that nonverbal reaction sticks with me a lot. So it's not that you have to say something or you don't have to be compelled to say something. Just your mere presence of support is meaningful and in many ways healthy for people. The other thing that, um, that I'd like to reflect on and it links Sheridan to your, to your thoughts, um, are eulogies.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
It's like, you know, when you go in and you go to a funeral and you listen to a eulogy, whether it's given by a, um, a minister or pastor or rabbi, um, or family members or friends, um, It really is a reflection on a point in time and history with that person that has passed away. And for some, it's very, very needed. Very, very needed.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And sometimes it gives reason or purpose to the person's passing away, especially if it was an unexpected death. Okay, so my goodness, there was a lot of great research. I highly recommend that everybody... check into the background research that Sheridan put together for this episode because it's really quite insightful.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
So what we're dealing with here is health and somebody passing away, namely grief. How is it that you deal with grief? Barry, you made the point that everybody grieves differently. Some people get over it, I guess, it very, very quickly. Some people hang on to it, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
I will tell you this, and one thing you didn't mention, Barry, was, and Maddie and myself, in Judaism, what happens is when somebody passes away and it happens to be your mother or your father, a very, very close one, typically the rabbi historically would tear your garment, like a piece of your clothing. Today, they give you like a black ribbon and tear it.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And it's supposed to be symbolic of somebody who's been torn from your life. And You know, it's a visual, symbolic component to the grieving process. So with all of that, there's a lot of things that we all do. You know, we do flowers. We light candles. We, you know, we tear a garment. We put flowers at a gravesite.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on burial, funerals, and health, a trifecta of subjects here that certainly connect to one another. It can be a sad subject, it can be a happy subject, but we all deal with it. So we'll get to that in a minute. It'll be with our Health Chatter crew. We'll be talking about this. We all have a lot of experiences that we can share.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
In Jewish cemeteries, if you go to different gravestones, you will see people put rocks, little stones, by a grave site just as a reminder that they have visited and hopefully that that will provide comfort to those that have passed away. So let's talk about symbols a little bit and verbal things that people say. Any comments on that, Barry, Sheridan?
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
as well. Unexpected versus expected. Somebody gets killed in a motor vehicle accident, or somebody gets shot, or an active service member gets killed in the line of duty. These are more shocking. and perhaps more difficult to deal with. But that's where truly family support, community support becomes very, very important.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
One thing that Sheridan brought up in her research for this show are the costs. of burying somebody, you know, of a funeral today. And they aren't cheap. And, you know, for instance, in Judaism, there's the concept, you know, dust to dust. And so oftentimes Jewish people are buried in a plain pine box. Nothing extravagant at all. As far as a casket is concerned.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
On the other hand, there are a lot of different caskets that people feel are important. So there's a lot of costs. And to a certain extent, funeral costs are unexpected. I mean, you just don't realize, then all of a sudden you're kind of hit with this. So I recommend that everybody read some of the background research here that gives a sense of it.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Another thing, and maybe Sheridan, you can reflect on this a little bit, is organ donation. And that's number one. And then body donation. Okay, for at least theoretically for science purposes, did you, when you were researching this, did anything hit you specifically about that?
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
You know, it, I remember distinctly taking anatomy course at the, at the university of Minnesota and, And I remember, and you know, we were in a laboratory with cadavers. And I remember our professor, before we even started, he said, all right, no matter where you come from, what kind of culture you have, what religion you have, these people
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
have donated their bodies for us, for educational purposes and for you to become knowledgeable. And he said, before we ever get started, we're taking a moment of silence just to thank them. And we did. And wow, that was really quite powerful. And it also caused us when we were studying these particular cadavers to do it ever so carefully and with respect.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And it was really, that really stuck with me all these years. Clarence, welcome back. I really want to get you just some overall thoughts
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
from you um regarding this this topic of funeral and death um what hits your core what really what have you what you know in all your years what have you really learned that really um affects you to this day i think what i what i really learned is that grief is universal that that people uh experience it in a variety of different ways but uh
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Yeah. All right, everybody. Roundtable. Last thoughts. Barry.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
So I have two things I'd like to quickly say. One is what I have realized all these years after going to different places around the world and cemeteries is the history. It's like all of a sudden you go, like for instance, I went recently to the boyhood home of Abraham Lincoln in northern Tennessee, and buried there is his mother.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And there was a gravestone there, and she was 35 years old when she passed away. And I couldn't help, but I stopped in front of this gravestone, and The thought that came to my mind was this. I hope you really realize how significant your son was in the lives of many, many people in the United States that she couldn't, she wasn't able to take advantage of at 35 years old when she passed away.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Then the last thing I want to do is read something that actually Sheridan provided us in her great research. The word funeral was first used in the 1300s. The word funeral is believed to have been used by Geoffrey Chaucer, who's often considered the father of the English language. It appeared in writing in his Middle English work, The Knight's
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Hale, in which he refers to the funeral service after a character passes away. It was published in 1386, making it the first written use of the word funeral that we know of today. With that, that's the end of our show today. Our next show will be on health and safety. So tune in to that. And in the meantime, everybody keep health, chatting away.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Have a great crew. That includes Manny Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, and of course, Barry Baines is our medical advisor. Thanks to all of you. You're second to none. By the way, everybody on the podcast here, all our research that we do for our shows is available on our website at healthchatter.com.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Yeah, the research was really interesting. I mean, we could definitely do more than one show on this subject. So my personal story is... My father passed away when I was very young. And I think I might've,
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
reflected on this previously, but whenever I think this might be true with just about any family, there's always someone that has to kind of take the ball, you know, the bull by the horns to run all the logistics when somebody passes away while other people are kind of grieving in their own way. And I was that.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
person for, for my father, um, you know, all the logistics of, you know, funeral arrangements and the whole, the whole thing. And, um, I realized it was only two weeks after my father passed away that I totally lost it. I mean, I just, you know, cried my heart out. And yet today I still grieve that. Okay. That I didn't, I wasn't able to, um, Process, I guess, is maybe the word.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
Process that grieving. I never had a situation like that before. And so today, to this day, I'm still trying to figure that out. Okay. And, um, and one way I do that is, um, I visit the, um, the cemetery where my, my father is buried, my father and mother. The other thing is, and, and Maddie, you kind of alluded to this, um, for myself, I never met any of my grandparents.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
And so then you, you ask a question of how do you link with them? And, um, Again, at least on my father's side, his parents are buried at the same cemetery. So when I visit him and his gravesite, I visit them too. And so there's that kind of a linkage. I do not know whether that's part of a grieving process or I do not know whether or not that's just part of your spiritual soulful component.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
But that's one thing I do. And there's a personal story about it. So, all right. So there's a lot of stuff here. So I'm going to start out with one that I think is kind of interesting. All right. And it relates to cultural differences and maybe even religious differences.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
So I recently went on a long road trip with my pooch, Murphy, and we went to our first stop was at a national monument park called Effigy Mounds. National Park. It's north of Davenport, Iowa. It's in the cliffs overlooking the Mississippi River. Beautiful, beautiful forest, dense forest, and beautiful vistas of the Mississippi River. Highly recommend a visit to it if you live close by for sure.
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Burials, Funerals, & Health
And of course, you can get the podcast themselves at that site as well. Also with us, of course, is my great colleague, Clarence Jones, who co-hosts the show with us and also links us to a great community health organization called Hugh Mann Partnership, who sponsors Health Chatter for us. Greatly appreciate them. and the work that they do, you can check them out at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
At any rate, up in the middle of this forest are burial sites for American Indians that buried their people there. Mounds. There are mounds in the middle of the forest. It's like a clearing. All of a sudden, what the heck? There are no trees and there are these mounds. And this is where they buried themselves along with bears. So when bears would die...
Health Chatter
Burials, Funerals, & Health
They would bury them along with their loved ones. So, you know, you stop and you look at that and you say, wow, talk about culture or talk about how people deal with death. And here's how this Native American did it in that area of the country. So let's talk about this a little bit, you know, the culture of it all. Yeah, Barry, how about you?
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And, you know, it also takes your mind off of something, too. It's just like, you know, I've had discussions with patients on what their favorite food is.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
you know because i'm telling them what they should eat you know going forward and they say well let's not have my favorite list of things to eat but let's then we go off of this tangent yeah and it really it's kind of nice because it takes the focus away from frankly the pain exactly yeah so i learned a lot a lot about people about their
Health Chatter
Spirituality
So, um, you know, I know that we're kind of connecting spirituality and religious aspects of all of this. And I think that they're interconnected and complementary, like we said. I want to bring up something that just happened this week, and you'll appreciate this. So Rabbi Goldberg was officiating at a funeral of a friend of mine on Monday. And
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And I was there, and this person who passed away was a very good, dear friend who I'd known for a long, long time. And as we in Judaism are coming into Hanukkah, okay, which is starting tomorrow night, which when everybody in the listening audience hears this, Hanukkah will probably be over, but that's okay. You'll still get the drift of our conversation here. So
Health Chatter
Spirituality
You mentioned something that really just hit me. You said that this person who passed away was like a shamash, okay? And for those in the listening audience, when you light a menorah for Hanukkah, there's one candle, there's eight candles, but then there's the ninth, what's called the shamash, which... In English, I think means the attendant or the helper or what have you.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
That is used to light the other candles, okay? You can't light just the candles. You have to use this shamash, the attendant, to do that. And you mentioned in your eulogy that my friend was like that. He kind of lit other people up. And, you know, that moment in your eulogy was, you know, put aside the religious aspect of it. But visually, visually, that became really spiritual for me.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Really spiritual. That here's an individual that lit up the lives of many, many people throughout his life. And so there can be moments, I think, moments where you just hear something, you know, like I did when you presented this, that can do it for you as well. Do you sense that or hear that from other people, or is it just me? I don't know.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
So with that, we're going to get into a subject that actually I've been really thinking a lot about, frankly, for quite a while now as it relates to health. As everybody might know, we've done a variety of different topics in health, social-related health topics, chronic disease, infectious disease. et cetera. And, you know, I've been struck by the idea of spirituality.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. But I, I, all I can say is thank you for that because it was, it was really, for me, it was special spiritual. Now, there are other things that can get us going. We're talking about lights. You go in the neighborhoods now and you see holiday lights, Christmas lights, and you know what? That makes us happy. Happiness is kind of, I think, part of the spiritual aspects of it all. It's just like
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. Yeah. So another thing I want to talk about is, you know, we've kind of talked or focused on perhaps personal spirituality, but I think there's also communal spirituality, okay? And for instance, I remember distinctly when President Kennedy was assassinated.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's great episode is on spirituality, which is a very, very interesting subject for sure. We've got a great guest with us, Rabbi Matt Goldberg, and I'll get to him in a second. We've got great background researchers that really make all our shows just super, super successful. Maddy Levine-Wolfe,
Health Chatter
Spirituality
I remember my parents saying to me that, okay, there's something that we, you know, as a family can do to feel better, okay, in this situation where there's this badness that's hit us all. And what did we do? We went to the synagogue.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
There are a lot of people that went to churches or work wherever, where together we felt, I don't know what the word is, maybe more cocooned, more helped, where you sense as though spiritually together is better than alone. Okay, so for instance, I don't think walking Murphy, if that had happened back then, going on a hike would have done that for me. But being together with other people did.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
So do you ever have that sense of communal spirituality, no matter where it might be?
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And so we've invited my great rabbi from Bethel Synagogue in St. Louis Park, Minnesota, Rabbi Matt Goldberg, graduated from Hebrew College and was ordained as a rabbi and a cantor, both. So he can speak and sing. Imagine that. And he came to Beth-El just recently this summer. So it's great to have you.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And, you know, and I think that's in all religions. I really do. I really think there's comfort, health, if you will, You know, when you're sorrowful or you all are experiencing together some kind of pain. I think we get energy from one another in a healthful way, whereby I think after you're together, you feel better. better. I just sense that.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
So let's talk about a little bit more on the health aspect a little bit. You know, when you're in a hospital situation, you see a lot of volunteers that help, okay, doing a variety of different things. One of our
Health Chatter
Spirituality
what a person that we both know um he dresses up as a clown okay and and just you know goes to the pediatric units and actually some of the of the adult units as well it just clowns around it just makes people or um the connectedness between us with um animals we've had a show uh before uh about pets. And I see dogs being walked around in the hospital and they just make people feel better.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
There is something special about that. There's something special about the connectedness that volunteers help or we help one another or animals. So I think communal wise, there are other angles to it. You don't have to get together as a whole grouping of people. You can get together in different ways. All right. You landed up being a rabbi, okay?
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And you brought up an interesting concept at the front end of this thing, where it's one thing that you're innately born with that we alluded to, but then there's something that you learned, okay? So you learned, I mean, and so you, I think, dealt with the idea of religion on one hand, learning it, and combined with, if you will,
Health Chatter
Spirituality
spirituality so how how did you find that distinction as you were getting educated or did you just kind of go with the flow um it's a it's a good question and um i think that you know i'll start by saying
Health Chatter
Spirituality
He was originally from Vancouver, British Columbia, received his BA in English and a minor American history. He's done internships in Boston and Toronto and has done work in chaplaincy, which I think is an important topic as it relates to spirituality. And just really a wonderful man. And I really appreciate having you on our show. So thanks for being with us, Matt. Thank you.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah, no, I, I get that. So, so Maddie said, you know, why rabbinical school? if that hasn't been asked and we, I don't think I have. Uh, so, um,
Health Chatter
Spirituality
So let's get this thing going here. So, you know, there's kind of this, I don't know if it's angst, but there's kind of a connection or what have you between spirituality on one hand and religious spirituality. on the other. Now, I could speak for myself. I'm a religious Jew. I mean, I practice Judaism. And on the other hand, I'm spiritual.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
That's the spiel. So that, so, all right, here's the thing. You know, we have a rabbi on the show and, but everybody, I don't care. who you are, whether you're Gentile, Muslim, Jewish, we all have a sense of connectedness to spirituality. I believe that And maybe any of you can chime in on this. I think it's connected somehow or other to values, how we value certain things.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And we all are raised the way we're raised, okay? We make decisions as adults. young people and as adults differently, but it's still, you know, maybe the common denominator are the values that we bring, that we bring to ourselves based on the experiences that, that we have. And we make decisions that based using those values, how it affects our health. I think at least I hope that's the case.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
You know, we all, come at it at different angles. It's like my dad used to say, that's what makes the world go round. It's really true. Aaron. Aaron's one of our great background researchers here and has been linked with this show for a long time. Just chime in. Give us a sense here. You've dealt with
Health Chatter
Spirituality
You know, in shows, you know, she's dealt with some illness that she's had, some struggles, some great things that you've gone through. So tell me how your sense of, I guess, spirituality has helped guide you.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. You know, and I know you run and you exercise a lot and you know, and you know, and I, and you know, I go to the gym too and you know, I could look, I seriously, I could look at some of these people and I, To a certain extent, I think they're getting a spiritual high. Is that a fair statement, Erin?
Health Chatter
Spirituality
You know, so I, you know, when you go to the gym, you know, just you see, an incredible array of people. You see big people, you see small people, you see people that are muscular, you see people that are fit, you see people that are not fit, you see people that are old, young, the whole nine yards, okay? And driven at different levels. Nobody's making a judgment about this one or that one.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
So it's kind of like I have these two facets as a human being. And so I'm wondering if you might be able to respond to that.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Everybody's kind of doing their thing. So two days ago, I was working out, and there's a guy bicycling next to me, has his big knee brace on, on one leg, okay? And he's biking literally with one pedal with one leg, and he's letting his other leg kind of just hang there, okay? And I'm thinking, wow. You know, it's just like he's getting into it for him, In his own way.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And I really do think that there's, you know, there is something that feels good, maybe, and that's part of spirituality, right? When you're done with this stuff, or when you've accomplished something, right? A goal that you've set for yourself, like one push-up, you know, for somebody could be an incredible goal. Okay. Where, you know, 150 could be for the next one. Okay.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
But no judgment, no judgment at all, which I think makes it, um, really interesting. So, um, Matt, you know, I, I, I guess I'd be remiss in, in not mentioning, um, maybe, uh, instead of just communal, um,
Health Chatter
Spirituality
spirituality but you know maybe national spirituality or international spirituality and you know we have major issues let's just let's start with you know maybe international at the bigger level right now you know things that are going on in israel or things that are going on in in ukraine or things that are going on around the world that
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Frankly, I suppose we could make a judgment that just don't feel right. Okay, so do you ever have a sense of how it is, you know, we can deal with maybe the idea of international spirituality? You know, I've always said, God, wouldn't it be great if we could all just chill out for one day? Let's just give it a try. You know, worldwide, chill out.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Let's reflect on the fact that we're humans and they'd go from there. But anyway, what's your thought on that?
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. And how you Maybe there's something spiritual in how we process things together. I really mean together. One-on-one with an individual or one-on-ten with a bunch of friends, but how we process. When we're forced into situations that we haven't been That we aren't comfortable with, you know, like processing wars. It's a tough one to do by yourself spiritually. So maybe conversationally.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
You know, being spiritual makes you feel good. At least hopefully. For me, eating a Snickers bar also makes me feel good. So there's something, you know, but if I did it by myself, that's okay. You know, I'm one-on-one with a Snickers bar and that feels really good. Okay. I'm not, by the way, you know, health chatter gang here. I'm not advocating everybody go out and eat Snickers bars.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
But, you know, once in a while, it's good for your mental health. You know, so, you know, there are things that we do at the micro level that And there's things that we do at the macro level. I think kids are really good at this. I think they're really good. They know how to really focus in on things that really make them feel good, just building blocks or whatever the heck.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And then there's things that they do with a bunch of their friends running around. And you know what? To a certain extent as adults, if we could just bottle that
Health Chatter
Spirituality
type of spiritual spirituality wouldn't that be wonderful wouldn't that be truly truly wonderful all right so where our aim for hell chatter today certainly wasn't to um have the end all on spirituality uh but it was certainly you know a conversation that um Hopefully you all can appreciate, especially as we get into these holidays, for all of us.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And by the way, there is something spiritual and meaningful in getting together with your families, getting together with your friends, no matter what holidays you might practice or whatever. what fun things you want to do together. There is something to it and don't discount it from a health perspective. Last comments, Rabbi Goldberg.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah, connect. Connect with one another for sure. So thank you for being with us. This has been very spiritual. and connected. And we greatly thank you. Thank you for your insights. Everybody, we have great shows coming up. Believe it or not, we have one coming up on prostate cancer. We're looking at cardiac rehab coming up. For those of you who know or have heard of Patty Wetterling's
Health Chatter
Spirituality
She has committed to being on our show. So that'll be coming up probably in January. So great shows on Health Chatter. We hope you all enjoy them. So to everybody in our listening audience, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, you know, when I think about, you know, spirituality, you know, I've talked about this before. I get here, I take my dog for, you know, Murphy for a hike, many hikes. And, you know, and we go to these places. I might, I could almost dub them as kind of spiritual places. Okay, when we go to our high access, we're on our own and we're out in nature.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
And both of us will kind of like, you know, sit on a bench or on a tree log or something and just take it in. Just take it in. And to me, that's a spiritual place. angle, I guess, you know?
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah, so they kind of complement each other. Exactly. So I wonder if a person is first spiritual, first spiritual, and then maybe embraces religion as part of that spirituality. I don't know, or maybe the other way around.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do our background research along with Sheridan Nygaard who does research and our marketing. And then Matthew Campbell is our production guru, gets all the logistics out to make sure that our shows get out to you, the listening audience. So thank you to you guys. You're second to none. And then of course, My partner in crime here is Clarence Jones.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. So, you know, to a certain extent, I wonder if we're born with spirituality. a sense of appreciation of things around us, taking in a breath of fresh air. Those types of things, I think, are kind of innate. And we embrace that. We embrace that. And then religion... perhaps complements it for some, you know, or brings it to a different level or a different angle of it, you know, per se.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. All right. So this is health chatter. Okay. So, you know, one of the things that has struck me, you know, I volunteer at Methodist Hospital in St. Louis Park here. And, you know, I see patients who are just come out of surgery. And inevitably, just about every time I go, there's some kind of a spiritual aspect.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
to their experience that they're going through, the surgery that they've come out of. There's kind of a spiritual aspect to their recovery. And for some, There's a religious connection as well. You know, it's just like, you know, I've seen, you know, patients that, you know, literally pray that, you know, they get better and get better soon.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Or people that are visiting will mention that this person that's in the hospital they're praying for, okay, And for some odd reason, I sense that that's part of the health of it all.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Unfortunately, Clarence could not be with us today because ironically, he's speaking at a conference on aging, which when he told me that, he was chuckling in the background. He said, why would they contact me about aging? And I said, Clarence, you're aging. So anyway, but he sent me some questions that I'll be able to pose in a few moments. So thank you to all of you.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Yeah. You know, I believe that spirituality, for sure, has a calming effect. And and you know, it's just like in the hustle bustle that we all are dealing with or the, or the angst that we're dealing with or, or the, Oh my God, the many things that are going on around us.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Um, spirituality gives us that, that moment where we, we could truly just calm down, take a deep breath and, and perhaps from a health perspective, um, give us a different view of what's going on that might be healthier and help us to get through things differently. And I think, I don't know, maybe there's research on this, that I think, you know, chaplaincy has a component of that.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
You know, for a moment, You know, I've seen chaplains come in after someone's had, you know, knee surgery. And I really do sense that it helps them to forget what they're going through for even if it's a moment. Right. You know, and you know something? That to me is not bad medicine.
Health Chatter
Spirituality
Our sponsor for this, for our great Health Chatter podcast is Human Partnership, which is a community health organization that provides great community health resources and programs. They're also second to none. We highly recommend you check out their website at humanpartnership.org. Also, you can check out our website at healthchatterpodcast.org.
Health Chatter
Asthma
I mean, we could, any one of the shows that we've done, we could go on for hours, you know, on any of the subjects, but we really do chat together and we keep up on all the different aspects that's going on in healthcare together. And he and I have been around the block a little bit. And so, uh, Hopefully we have some interesting, insightful questions today as well.
Health Chatter
Asthma
So, all right, so a lot of stuff here. All right, so I just wonder, and, you know, again, I think, Gail, in this case, it might be a function of further research coming down the pike here. But I wonder that as you just grow into adulthood, your lungs become more mature. in able to maybe handle some of these, what you call triggers, but who knows? I mean, that's yet to be determined.
Health Chatter
Asthma
All right, so let's talk about asthma as a condition here. Is asthma curable or is it just treatable?
Health Chatter
Asthma
So. All right. So. All right. Let's let's talk about these inhalers for just a second. Does a person who has asthma, do they use an inhaler as a prevention or only as an intervention when they're actually having an asthma attack?
Health Chatter
Asthma
And then of course, there's our sponsor, Human Partnership, community organization in the Twin City metropolitan areas where they're housed, but they service the whole state of Minnesota on a variety of great health issues. And we really, really thank them for their help along the way. So today, asthma. And in parentheses, air quality. How's that? Okay.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on asthma, and we're adding a little bit of a sidebar that everybody has been interested in of late, and that's air quality, okay? Because, boy, I don't know about you, but Sometimes when I'm going outside lately, I've been coughing and maybe we can get some insights on that from our great guests. We'll introduce her in a minute.
Health Chatter
Asthma
So, all right. So a couple of angles on this. So, um, here's just kind of like getting down and dirty. What if, you know, a kid has to have some kind of an operation. Okay. Whatever. And okay. And, you know, excuse me, you know, we got to make sure that you're, you're, you're breathing. All right. What, how is that type of thing balanced between the surgeon, whoever,
Health Chatter
Asthma
So we have a great guest, Dr. Gail Brotman, pediatric pulmonologist at Hennepin County Medical Center in downtown Minneapolis and also M Health Fairview. Special interest in pediatric asthma, which, by the way, I'm going to be asking between pediatric asthma and adult asthma, just a little bit, all right? And we'll see where that goes.
Health Chatter
Asthma
And for instance, you as a pulmonologist, to make sure everything is in sync so that we can proceed with, in this case, an operation. Like for instance, I know when I'm seeing orthopedic patients, you know, we have them post, this is after the surgery,
Health Chatter
Asthma
post using a spirometer, you know, which is, you know, that thing where you just breathe out to start getting your lungs really kind of moving and get that anesthesia moving out of your system. Tell me how it is that you balance in this case, a very specific situation, an operation for a kid who happens to be asthmatic.
Health Chatter
Asthma
At that point, at that particular point in time when they're in need of a operation.
Health Chatter
Asthma
um causing narrowing that cause you to have these these asthma symptoms so it's all comes back to that same thing all right so um and that that's a very specific situation you know where a kid has to have in this case you know some kind of a an operation whether it's elective or not. Elective is a different story because you definitely can maybe put it off. Maybe in a trauma situation, you can't.
Health Chatter
Asthma
All right, so let's talk about some of these statistics for a while. So our illustrious crew, and you can confirm this. All right, so asthma now we're talking about. Most common chronic disease among children. I mean, I don't even think most people even know that, okay? In the U.S., about one in 13 people have asthma.
Health Chatter
Asthma
She's a faculty member, associate professor in the Department of Pediatrics at the University of Minnesota, faculty member in pediatric pulmonology and sleep medicine, which is also kind of an interesting sidebar on all of this. We'll talk about that as well. She's a great colleague. knows her stuff and much better than we do.
Health Chatter
Asthma
In 2018, not that many years ago, the annual economic cost of asthma was more than $82 billion. That's nationwide. That's just, that's not, Minnesota can take a chunk of that, I'm sure. Okay. All right. Now, the other thing that I really want to touch on is population differences.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Do we see more asthma just in general amongst different population groups or are certain population groups at higher risk based on your practice? What do you see?
Health Chatter
Asthma
You know, I'll tell you, as you can imagine, on Health Chatter, we've talked about a variety of different conditions. And it's really, really saddening to me that, frankly, for a majority of these situations, the very groups that you mentioned are at higher risk for, unfortunately, it just seems just about everything. And it seems to me from a health perspective,
Health Chatter
Asthma
from a public health standpoint, from a medical standpoint, that is really where we have to start honing in on trying to help these people, as was yet another situation where, again, I wouldn't have guessed Puerto Rican, but On the other hand, you know, we're still seeing, you know, American Indian, African American.
Health Chatter
Asthma
And so, you know, we could be short of breath while she goes ahead and talks about this subject for us. So welcome, welcome to Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Asthma
It's just like, come on, we've got to start getting our hands around all these different chronic oriented diseases for these populations if we really want to try to make a difference. All right. So I know we have you have one of your illustrious colleagues here, Kelly.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Albright perhaps who's who's who's on the on the horn here as well but I I want to talk about the state plan there's a state plan in the in the state of Minnesota frankly you know as you can imagine at the Department of Health they have plans for everything but you know you know but at any rate better to have something on paper and framed a little bit okay so and I know that
Health Chatter
Asthma
Gail, that you've been involved and been a very, very good voice in the development of that. So might you just talk a minute about your perspectives on a plan, like, you know, that's in existence, that's number one, and then maybe how it relates to things like prevention, acute treatment, which you've definitely talked about, and then disease management.
Health Chatter
Asthma
And then maybe what we can do to better inform people about this so that we're on top of things better. So go ahead.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Thanks, thanks. Okay, so let's get the show moving here. Let's, you know, for all our listening audience all over the place, let's start with the basic. What is asthma?
Health Chatter
Asthma
Absolutely, absolutely. So let's talk about a perspective from a parent. Okay, just, you know, because you obviously you're dealing with kids, but obviously, you're their parents. Okay. All right. I can only imagine that a parent would say, you know what, I'm not going to worry about asthma. Unless I have to. Right. Okay. It's like, okay, my kids
Health Chatter
Asthma
All of a sudden, I notice my kid's having a hard time breathing, et cetera, et cetera. At that point, I'll bring them in and see what the heck's going on. On the other hand, wouldn't it be great if we were all at least semi-knowledgeable about all these different various conditions that affect us as human beings, including asthma, ahead of time?
Health Chatter
Asthma
so that we can go in and talk to these providers with some basic knowledge in our heads about this. Like for instance, you had mentioned genetics. Okay, it doesn't surprise me my kid's having a little hard time breathing or whatever, because guess what? I remember when I was a kid, I had a hard time breathing too, and I had asthma, that type of thing, okay?
Health Chatter
Asthma
I really appreciate your point about how it is that public health can help to communicate these concepts out to the public so that when you go in for care, you're not, even as a parent, you're not totally blitzed out. Okay. All right. So here's, we've alluded to this. All right. So we're going to get to it now. air quality. So I'll give a quick intro to this.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Certainly in the state of Minnesota, there's been other states around the country that have been very affected by Canadian fires that have gone on there. And the smoke has been coming into the United States And certainly, what was it, last week in the state of Minnesota, our air quality was like off the charts. And, you know, I remember, you know, driving.
Health Chatter
Asthma
It was really terrible. And, you know, to the point where you'd go outside and you'd start coughing just
Health Chatter
Asthma
what's what's going on and then it was like the middle of the day you knew it wasn't raining or anything but but cars were running around with their lights on because it was so thick and dense okay so let's talk about i'm sure you you've gotten some questions about this let's talk about generally air quality as it relates to pulmonary issues in this case asthma so
Health Chatter
Asthma
So I'll tell you, you know, from a public health standpoint, if I were a parent and I had a kid who was asthmatic, having that app on my phone, it's a good, it's just a good little tool. Johnny, let's make sure that everything is a okay before you go play soccer, you know, or whatever.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Yeah. And harder to breathe. I'll tell you, I had asthma as a kid. And I remember that that. You know, for those of you who've never had it, great. But if you've ever had it, that feeling where you can't get enough air into your lungs is actually frightening. It really is.
Health Chatter
Asthma
great point as it relates to disease management. And, you know, there's, there's disease management for the parent that's got to do it for their child. And then there's disease management for like an adolescent that knows they have to take the medication and the parent might not be around to help, et cetera, et cetera. So I think you bring up a really, really good
Health Chatter
Asthma
And I assume that after a while you can get used to the feeling and you don't get as blitzed out about it, but it's still frightening. it really is debilitating. It really, really is. All right. So let's talk about pediatric asthma, which is your specialty. So what do we need to know?
Health Chatter
Asthma
point around action plans, which I'll be honest, it never existed when I was growing up. for sure. You know, there's other little points that we won't talk about, but I can just relate it for our listening audience. A risk factor is obesity, for instance, or might a risk factor be apnea, okay? Which probably, I don't know if apnea is prevalent in younger people in pediatric age.
Health Chatter
Asthma
But certainly for adults, does that exacerbate or go hand in hand with asthma? These are subjects that we can certainly put some more information on our website for this particular episode. Also, Kelly has been great. So for our listening audience, as we've been chatting away here, Kelly has been adding some resources that we will be sure to get on our website for this particular episode.
Health Chatter
Asthma
What you should know is that there's a lot more available today than there was yesterday as it relates to asthma prevention, acute treatment, and disease management. And I think that that's great. Research has really gone a long way. We still have more to go, but knowing that it's treatable and manageable is major, major for a lot of people. So thank you. Thank you so much. You're eloquent.
Health Chatter
Asthma
You know this subject better, and it's great because it's very, very useful. I encourage our listening audience, if you've got anybody in your family that has asthma, or you might be concerned about, listen to this episode. It's a great episode. And we can also connect with your public health professionals and your medical professionals for assistance. So thank you for health chatting today.
Health Chatter
Asthma
We've got another show coming up next week. Clarence and I, imagine this, are going to do a personal reflection on our journey in health chatter today. so far. And there's been a lot of subjects in the health arena that we've discussed, and we're going to put our perspective glasses on. So for everybody out there in our listening audience, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Asthma
We have, if our listening audience has heard some of our great shows, Clarence and I can't do this by ourselves. And we've got a crew that really is second to none. We've got three great researchers that do some good background research for us.
Health Chatter
Asthma
Yeah. You know, as a parent, you know, I certainly can remember my own parents that, you know, my, especially my mother, she would get really blitzed out, you know, when either my sister who also had asthma or myself had an asthma attack. I mean, cause it's really, it's frightening, you know, see her, see her kid, you know, suffering like that, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Asthma
They don't get everything because that's why we have illustrious guests, but they give us enough to really chew on and provide some good insights as we talk in our chat together. So we've got Maddie, Levine, Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard. Together, they're a trifecta second to none. Matthew Campbell is our production manager, puts all the logistics together.
Health Chatter
Asthma
And I remember our pediatrician coming to the house and And, you know, imagine that, you know, house calls, but which is kind of another subject at some point we should talk about in health chatter. But at any rate, they gave me a shot. And I can't remember what it might have been. Was it adrenaline?
Health Chatter
Asthma
All right. Again, I'll use myself as a guinea pig here on the show. I don't have asthma now, at least hopefully I don't. Talk to us a little bit about this business of pediatric asthma, which you're an expert in, and then, shall I say, outgrowing it? as an adult. So what's the story there?
Health Chatter
Asthma
Just about every week we get a show out and he's the one that puts it out for all of you to connect with. And also Sharon Nygaard is also one of our researchers, but also she does some of our great marketing work. So thank you to all of you. you're greatly appreciated. Then of course, there's Clarence, my great colleague who I'll tell you, we're having a lot of fun doing this.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Let me say this real quick. When I was growing up, my father would not let me have a gun. It was just not something that he would do. I don't know what his reasoning for it was, but that's happened. But I think you made a good point.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
We have become so desensitized with killing now with the Tendo and these other games that people think that, you know, when you're doing this, they don't realize the impact of a game versus a real game.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
a real uh uh uh instrument uh that person if you shoot them they're not gonna get back up again on that gang they will so you kind of like well if i shoot them you know they'll jump back up that's not happening or i can just shoot them in the leg and that you know and and i think that there's a there as as you just said there's a desensitizing that we've done that we need to really have some conversations about and the reality is this the other thing i want to make real quick is that
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
A lot of people don't want to bring up topics because they don't want to lose their friends. You know, you know, they're just certain, you know, everybody's so sensitive and politically correct. And, you know, so you can't really talk about a lot of things.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
But yet those things that you don't talk about are the things that's hurting you and your family or could potentially hurt you and your family. And so you would rather risk saving a relationship versus sometimes saving your own family. And I mean, so that's what health chatter is about. I know I'm on a limb here, but that's how I feel.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Is there any thought on that? I think, Stan, this is glaring. I think that part of what we have to acknowledge is that there are systemic things that are happening in this country. There's systemic pressures that are being applied to certain groups of people. There are certain kind of unrealistic expectations that are placed on people. And people are, you know, somebody used the term traumatized.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
And I try not to get too far into that lane, but that's the reality. People are underneath the pressure. And so we live in a, when I was growing up, we lived in a John Wayne kind of society too, where if you're going to handle your problems, you know, you beat them up or you shoot them or whatever that kind of thing.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
I mean, so you can develop a certain kind of, whether it's a kind of unknown or it's kind of suppressed feeling about, about certain kinds of things. And that's how you handle, how you handle your problems. And so I think that part of,
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
what's happening is that based on what you see on TV, based on how people present things, based on the rap, based on the media, I mean, there is a certain kind of image that's placed on people so that they, fortunately, their life is imitating art. It's not that art imitates life.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Think about that. Think about that. What you just said. Or safer. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Think about what you just said. Isn't it sad that that. we know that there are certain pressures applied to certain groups that may not necessarily be applied to other groups. The hope is that we don't let our group become affected like that group. And that's sad because all of us should have a sense of safety.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
All of us should have a sense of protection, but that's not true in this country, you know? And so, I think that those are the kinds of things that we have to be honest about as we start talking about this issue of why do we have so many unlocked guns? Why do we have so many guns? Why are our children impacted by this? What do we as parents say about these issues?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
And then how do we effectively message so that other people can take more safety measures in order to address the issue?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
You there, Clarence? Yeah, I'm here. This is a great conversation. I think that, you know, when we talk about how do you change...
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
This has been a great conversation. I'm really glad. I do know that this won't be the ending conversation. I think we've just scratched the surface and there's so many interesting things that we can talk about, lanes that we can go with this. And so thank you.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
Great. Clarence. Well, Dr. Kahnke, I just want to tell you this. I think we're at the point where as a parent, you got to ask your kids questions. You also ask those other parents questions because it's not only just guns, it's also substance abuse. It's also other kinds of things that are going on in homes. And so Are we at that place where we have to be as parents more protective?
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
The answer is totally yes, because we're starting to see these things. I was also going to say that, you know, even while this is being done in Minnesota, we recently had a series of young people who were killed or hurt by guns in homes. And so we have to have this conversation. And so, you know, we're at different places, but at the same time, it is an important issue that's impacting all of us.
Health Chatter
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
And so I'm just glad that we're able to enter into the conversation, regardless of our lane.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Professor of Psychology and Neuroscience and Director of Social Connection and Health Lab at Brigham Young University. We really appreciate her being with us because we're recording this show in the morning and it's earlier for her because she's in mountain time. So again, thank you, Julianne, for that. She is also the founding scientific chair and board member for the U.S.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So let me, you know, are there certain personality types that tend to be more lonely or experience loneliness? For instance, if you take extroverts versus introverts, okay, is there any indication that there might be, like, I'll just guess, introverts are more lonely than... than extroverts, or is there been any studies on that?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Foundation for Social Connection and Global Initiative on Loneliness and Connection. You know, when you really get down to the idea of loneliness, there really is no doubt in my mind after hearing from her and reading her background that she is really the consummate expert on this subject. So welcome. Welcome to our show today. It's really nice having you.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
It's interesting that you think about connectedness. For many of us growing up, a telephone was tethered in your home. In other words, if you wanted to make a call, you had to do it out of something that was wired in your home or somebody else's home or even in a phone booth.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So now you think about mobile technology, mobile phones, where you could be walking down the street and chit-chatting with somebody, which also... kind of begs the question of connectedness, okay? Which, you know, certainly gets to your point. Go ahead, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
All right. So let's get this thing going here. There's a lot of information around loneliness all of a sudden. And my question is, is this something new? It's like all of a sudden, we're talking about loneliness. What the heck? What's going on here?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on loneliness and we'll be addressing isolation as well. We have a really superb guest with us. Stay tuned for that in just a second. Our crew is second to none, really is second to none. They They do our background research. They do our production with us. They do our marketing, the whole nine yards. And they're really, really good.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
You know, connectedness, you know, you know, being a grandparent, you know, with with grandkids that are, you know, living, you know, out of town, families are living out of town. You alluded to, Julie, on the idea of touch. And yes, I'm connected with them, you know, via, you know, Zoom or FaceTime or whatever. But I've often said
Health Chatter
Loneliness
I've often said that it's certainly, you can't put your arms around them. And that to me is part, at least from a personal standpoint, that to me is part of this whole scenario we're talking about. Go ahead, Barry.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So so let me ask this question is Is there like a timeframe for loneliness? In other words, you know, it's like you might ask me today, you know, on some kind of an inventory. Stan, are you experiencing loneliness? Well, is it loneliness for a week? Is it loneliness for days?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
two months is it lonely i is loneliness just based on a year you've been in that state for a year how is it that it seems to me it can ebb and flow a little bit for for us as human beings right right and and so um certainly that can that can occur i i will note that there's some evidence to suggest um
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So, you know, on a previous show, we had a veterinarian and and talked about the human interaction with um with pets so i'm just curious does um having a pet a dog a cat whatever or any any um does that play into the un being unlonely In other words, does that help the connectedness aspect? Or when we talk about connectedness, are we only talking human to human?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
You know, it's interesting when I take my own dog, Murphy, for a walk, he really gets into listening to woodpeckers. And so it's like, for some odd reason, he has to stop. And it's like, he almost communicates to me as if to say, come on, we need to listen to this.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Dogs are good at that. I'll say that. So, all right. So this is what, you know, our research crew is, like I said before, is second to none. Hopefully it, it's consistent and correct with what you're seeing in your research, Juliet. But one thing that does stick out is the differences by age. And so there's some striking things. And I just want to make sure that these are correct, first of all.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Like the Generation Z, and for our listening audience, that's like the 18 to 22, 23-year-olds, is the loneliest generation. Is that, does that bear out with what you're finding as well?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
All right. So what's going on there? I mean, is it just, what are we dealing with here?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
and kind of like we're morphing perhaps we're morphing into a different kind of of way of just going about life you know it's which is and you know we've we've talked about you know technology and all these other variables one thing i have noticed that you know so there's generation z there's adults there's older adults seems to me that that
Health Chatter
Loneliness
that what's affecting the percentages there are life events that go on. As you get older, you experience different life events that perhaps can have an effect on the loneliness factor. Certainly when you get older, You know, there's a bunch of things. You could lose a spouse or a significant other. Changes in lifestyle, such as retirement. Those types of things.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
And there's also by race, we're seeing... you know, supposedly differences in the Black community, the Hispanic community. Is that perhaps for at least some of these communities, a function of integrating into particular lifestyles, moving from a country to here, emigrating, for instance? What are we seeing? We're seeing race differences in that sense.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So, you know, I've heard it's a public health issue, okay? And to a certain extent, you know, as I've read about this, it's kind of like you asked the question, is loneliness more of an individual type of thing or is it more community-based type of thing? Are we dealing with more of a medical issue or more of a, I guess, public health community-oriented issue?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
minoritizing uh particular groups can uh put people at greater risk you know it's um you know to to come to a conclusion in in our show um know it begs the question okay so what do we do about this um and you know it's it's to a certain extent we we've discussed what is what we're seeing all right then the next thing is how do we um truly address it and in and for our listening audience in our um
Health Chatter
Loneliness
a research and background that's attached to this show when it comes out to you is, you know, what you can do if you're experiencing some loneliness. There are resources out there. And also, Julianne, if you know of some that you think that we should, you know, make available to the public that perhaps isn't on our list, please let us know. So it's one thing knowing that it exists.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
It's another thing is how do we respond to it? How do we help? people address this going forward. Any comment on that?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Yeah, it's been really, really insightful for sure. And certainly as you learn more, and I anticipate that you will be, feel free to get in contact with us. We'll have you on the show again because this is a great venue to be able to provide some very, very useful information out to the listening audience out there.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
if they're experiencing or they know people that are experiencing loneliness and isolation. So many, many thanks for being on our show on Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Yeah, you're eloquent, really. For our listening audience, great shows coming up. Our next show, believe it or not, is on stress. which I assume somehow or other is linked with loneliness and isolation. So with our guests for that, we'll make that linkage.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
We're also gonna be looking at access to healthcare and health insurance, infant mortality, healthcare disparities, great shows coming up on Health Chatter. So for all of you out in our listening audience, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So first of all, we have Maddie Levine-Wolf, who's helping with our recording today and does research for us. Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell. And Sharon and Nygaard all do our great work for us, including our production and marketing. So thank you to everybody. Human Partnership is our community organization that really does some great community work, health-oriented work.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
Yeah, right. So, you know, a couple of follow-ups to that. Is there... a country that isn't as lonely, that for some odd reason, you know, everybody is kind of hunky dory and happy and there isn't a high level of loneliness. Is there any particular countries that stand out?
Health Chatter
Loneliness
for us, especially in the Twin City metropolitan area. So thank you to them. Along with us today is Dr. Barry Baines, our medical advisor. And then of course, there's Clarence Jones, who is my co-host and partner in this initiative. So thank you to all of you. So today, loneliness and isolation, we have a great guest. Her name is Julianne Holt-Lunstad.
Health Chatter
Loneliness
So, you know, I was hoping you'd be able to tell me because then I'd know which country to move to if I had to.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
so let me let me connect a little bit here so we just got done a couple weeks ago doing a similar show in the cardiovascular arena and they just finished the development of their new plan 2023 to 20 or 2035, I think. Okay. So this particular plan was developed in 2015. And I'm just curious with the cardiovascular side of the equation, this, their plan really focuses on community engagement.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Okay. So was that part of the, perhaps you can recall, was that part of the psyche putting together the, the plan for cancer or it has, community engagement as far as the objectives for this plan become more of a thing that's happening today than it did back in 2015. Do you recall at all?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah, great. So, you know, a lot, there's like 19 objectives in the plan that I see. And a bunch of them. focus on prevention. So, and, you know, maybe we can kind of encapsulate them all, because I'm sure they all have some kind of a risk factor aspect to it. But, you know, like tobacco, obesity, vaccinations, radon, sunburn, and inboard tanning, salons, etc. So can you kind of
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
encapsulate, I guess is the best way of saying this, the prevention-oriented objectives and how it is that the plan hopes to engage the public more in prevention?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
What did I say? 2025, cancer plan. And today we have Dr. Sumeda Penheider from the Mayo Clinic with us. And she's got an illustrious background here. She's done her postdoctoral work at Mayo Clinic and has her doctoral degree in biochemistry and genetics.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Hello everybody, welcome to Health Chatter and today's show is on the state of Minnesota cancer plan, but I'm only guessing that all the different objectives that we're going to be talking about for this particular state plan is appropriate for many of the other states in the country as well.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I can't help but think that for most people, it's a major shock when you are diagnosed with cancer. I mean, it's just like, you know, if all of a sudden somebody, you know, a health care provider says, unfortunately, you have cancer, whatever cancer it may be.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
And I was struck by the objectives that focused on help or assistance, like support services or patient navigation or financial and legal burdens, those types of things. So can you touch on that a little bit to help people who are All of a sudden, they're recently diagnosed with it or they're in the midst of it. I'm impressed, frankly, by the objectives that focus on assistance.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
She currently works as a manager and consultant with the Mayo Clinic in their strategy department, where she advises on strategies for systems and procedures for clinical practice optimization and enhancement. It's interesting, my daughter in Boston works in that area, in cancer, actually.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Also, she's involved a lot with health equity, which also overlaps with a lot of the different objectives in the state plan. So thank you. Thank you so much for being with us. By the way, she also serves as the vice chair of the Minnesota Cancer Alliance, which frankly was involved in developing this. this plan that we're going to be talking about today. So thank you very, very much.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
You know, one thing that I've noticed, because I've been involved in creating plans, you know, these big, all-encompassing plans, and you don't want to forget something. That's one thing, you know, no matter how complicated the, in this case, the chronic disease might be, you don't want to forget some aspect of it. And so you're always assessing and reassessing in the developments. of the plan.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
One thing that we had Dr. Nico Prang from Health Partners on who was the co-chair in the development of the Healthy People 2030 objectives for the nation that were developed basically in 2020, okay?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
And so this particular plan, this state plan in cancer was already five years into it, even though there was kind of a, shall we say, a holding pattern on many of the objectives given COVID and what COVID did for a lot of the public health oriented things. So let me ask you, when you developed the 2015 plan,
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Was there a connection made with Healthy People 2020 to see if there was overlap between the objectives that you're developing and the objectives for the nation? So there's some sinking going on.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure it will be going, going forward in the, in the, in the development of, uh, of a new plan. So, um, talk to us a little bit about the, um, the Minnesota Cancer Alliance overall, you know, who, who are, who's part of that, um, What's their particular goal, et cetera, as it relates to the plan itself?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
So let's get this show going here. Let's talk about the answer in general. You know, from your perspective, Sumita, cancer obviously is one of the major chronic diseases that we're facing in the country. Ironically, and maybe sadly, in the state of Minnesota, cancer is the number one cause of death in Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
So it's interesting that you say how CDC requires it as far as a grant. to develop, to have, first of all, have an alliance. And then second of all, to develop a plan. It's interesting in the cardiovascular, you know, they did that, they required that as well for years.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
And then most recently they did not require it, but it was interesting because we had a cardiovascular alliance and we asked the very question, well, should we continue doing a plan, making a plan? And the answer from the partners was absolutely yes. And I'm sure the same thing is true in the cancer arena as well, because they felt that a plan provides a framework.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
It helps us frame what we want to do. And we're all talking within that framework. going forward as opposed to all over the place. Do you think that there's that same sense in the cancer arena as well?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
In most other states in the country, it's second behind cardiovascular disease, heart disease, and stroke. So you want to comment on that a little bit?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Thank you. Let me ask you, is there an entity that's responsible for reporting out how things are going with the plan? Or was it just kind of a a total partnership type of thing. You know, like there's some plans where the Department of Health, for instance, is responsible for getting the measurement. Where are we with our screening levels?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Or where are we with our, you know, policy development or whatever? And then consequently then reporting out. Is there, is like the Cancer Alliance responsible for that? Or is it like a shared ownership on everything?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah. So, you know, going forward, okay, because you are going forward in the development of a plan. These plans take a while to develop for sure. If you're seated at the table, for the development of the next plan. And you were kind of heading up the initiative. Where would you start? Okay, would you start on the existing plan that we have and where we've been?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Or, you know, tabula rasa, clean the slate and let's get a new plant going with some different exciting things in it. Tell me maybe where your head is at with regards to that. And then maybe your assessment on where the Minnesota Cancer Alliance is on the development of a new plant.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah. Yeah. So let's go full circle here. Um, we started out by, by saying that, um, Cancer is the leading cause of death in Minnesota. And every year, close to 30,000 Minnesotans are diagnosed with cancer, okay? Just for our listening audience, in Minnesota, do you have a handle on what's the most prevalent cancer? that we're dealing with?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
And I thank you as well for your leadership on this. I think it's important for the community to know that that we have good, trusted professional leaders that are trying to really, really make a difference in this arena. So many thanks to you and your insights into this plan and the future plan. For our listening audience, we will have a lot of information available on our website.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
And Dr. Sumeda, if there's other information that you wanna share with regards to that, we can also get that on our website. Might there be?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah, well, thank you. You're a great spokesman for it. So thank you. Thank you. So going forward, our next show for Health Chatter, we are going to be addressing the issue of grief. So Clarence and I are going to look at that topic. And there's a lot of things that we're grieving about individually as a nation and as a world that certainly affects our health.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
So let me ask you as a follow-up to that, do you think that's unique for Minnesota? Or do you think that the similar problems as far as cancer reporting exist in other states as well?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
We'll also link some of our discussion with Healthy People 2030 to see how we here connect with the plans and objectives for the nation as a whole. So stay tuned. In one second, we'll introduce our illustrious guests. We've got a great crew that really does super-duper work in the background for us.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Yeah, yeah. And then a quick one, and then Clarence, you can chime in here. Do we link our efforts that you know of, you know, even our statewide efforts that we'll get into in a second here, with other with other groups around the country? Like for instance, I'd mentioned like my daughter, she works at Dana Fiber Cancer Institute in Boston.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
So do we cross over with any of their initiatives at all or look at data together? Or is it really more state by state from what you know?
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
We have our researchers that include Manny Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard. Sheridan also does some marketing work for us. And then our math, our Our production person is Matthew Campbell, who gets our shows out almost on a weekly basis now. So it's been great. This is our, I believe it's close to our 70th show. So it's been a good, good run.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
So, you know, a few shows back, we had Matt Flory on the show, and he was talking about cancer screenings. And I noticed as I reviewed the plan, some of the objectives really focus in on screening, whether it be for breast, cervical, colorectal cancer, lung cancer screening, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
So talk to me about screening from an objective standpoint, and then perhaps we can apply this to many of the objectives here. You're eight years into this plan already, okay? So how are we doing? So let's talk about screening first of all. Go ahead.
Health Chatter
Minnesota State Cancer Plan
Clarence Jones is my co-host with me on this show. And it's been a wonderful venture. He provides some incredible insights from a community perspective and greatly, greatly appreciated. So Clarence, thanks for being with us. And then also Human Partnership.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
kind of follow up. There are a couple of themes that you brought out here. Training and education. Now, let me separate that a little bit. Let's talk about, you alluded to it, training for professionals. In this case, let's call it healthcare professionals. How is it that we do that? How is it that we really get the existing healthcare professionals up to speed?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
How is it that we get newly trained healthcare professionals? And I don't care whether they're physicians, whether they're public health professionals, whether they're allied health professionals, all of us, how is it that we get them
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
trained in their schooling or um how is it that we get them integrated yeah if they haven't used it at all so yeah i i'm sure you kind of touch on this yeah it's a it's a hard problem right let's start with the the seasoned people yeah work our way backwards yeah okay um in you know
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
We thank them dearly for being our sponsor for these shows. You can check them out at humanpartnership.org. So with that, we're going to get into artificial intelligence. And we've got a great guest with us today who actually came to my attention through a colleague of ours, Arkel Georgiou, and connections through Oracle.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
You know, it's interesting, you know, my wife and I have, you know, we've lost both of our parents. But, you know, I catch myself from time to time saying, oh, my God, if my mom or dad were alive today, this idea of simply streaming a television show would be, frankly, like a foreign language at their age. And so now you think about all these things. At one point, think about it.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Even for us, just a computer, just a mere computer. But this is coming at us very, very quickly. Clarence.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
And apparently, Dr. Patel's team owns an Oracle strategy, and he can talk about that, an AI strategy, a little bit. But I'll let him introduce himself, and then we'll get going. Dr. Patel.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on artificial intelligence, which is becoming quite a complicated issue in a variety of venues, but certainly has strong implications in the healthcare arena. We have a great guest with us. We'll get to that in just a second.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
alluded to Jigar was the idea of empathy and sympathy that Help me to figure out, I don't know how a machine can do that, okay? I don't know how artificial intelligence can do that, but as human beings, we can do that, okay? So do we use artificial intelligence then to help us as clinicians, as public health people to be more empathetic, to be more sympathetic?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Regardless of what language it is, right? Correct. It could be a foreign language and it, AI, can connect to the empathetic words for that different language?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
So let me ask you, I'm trying to circle us back into the health arena here in just a second. But one of the things that kind of.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
maybe disturbs me on the front end a little bit is are we compromising human intellect so let me let me give you a for instance it's like if i wanted to give a a speech okay on you know whatever okay to whoever theoretically i could you know i could you know look it up and and have it
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
created for me you know and you know i might change you know a thought to an ah and off i go all right so are we what's your sense i mean you've been in the field so do you think we're compromising human intellect or are what is it that you could easily say we're complementing it right um that would be the the hopeful, but on the other hand, are we? Are we truly compromising our intellect?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so let's circle back. Clarence and I have been involved in the healthcare arena for a long, long time. Based on your experience, are there particular, let's just take chronic disease arenas. You know, from your perspective, do you think that there are particular chronic disease arenas that can really utilize AI, I guess, much more than perhaps others?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Or are we all on the same playing field right now with no matter what condition?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
So it's a function of, like you said, if there's more history for the actual disease itself, or there's more history of a patient having a particular condition over an extended period of time, AI can be an incredibly useful tool to synthesize the information quickly and efficiently. Again, Time-saving, for sure.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
yeah so let me let me you know we've all lived and frankly are still living with um covet okay all right so take covet as a public health issue all right um Tell me how perhaps AI could have been more of a useful tool for us if we had maybe utilized it more or engaged with it more in order to respond, in this case, to a public health emergency.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Thank you. Really greatly appreciate you being on Health Chatter with us today. So let's kick this off by first starting out. There's been a lot of chatter about artificial intelligence. And frankly, I don't think many people even know what it is or the logistics behind behind it overall. So let's start there. So we all have kind of a common denominator as we talk about this.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
I was just reading a day or so ago, President Biden is looking at, and I'm reflecting on the politics of it all now, it's looking at some kind of potential federal legislation, I guess, in order for us to better be protected, at least theoretically, around AI. So let me get your thoughts about the, I guess, the politics behind all of this.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
So it's very philosophical. I think it's a function of the concept of regulation. And how is it that this AI should be or shouldn't be regulated in the gestalt of it all? Or maybe as you go down the funnel, as you become more specific, how is it that it might need to be regulated of some sort? And I'll tell you, talk about a complex question.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Just as we go down the line. Just to what degree? Clarence, last words.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Yeah. Let me just ask this one last thing. What do you want to tell the public? I mean, about, I mean, what's, what's a takeaway that the health chatter audience here should know? Like, you know, don't be afraid of it or, you know, it's here to stay, but embrace it. Or what is it that they need to have?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Yeah. Well, I so greatly appreciate your insights. I learned a lot just... listening to you and in, in hearing your, your AI responses. So it's still human. Yes, it absolutely is. So, so thank you very much. So for our listening audience, keep hell chatting away. Our next show will be on ready spirituality and health, which will also be an inter very interesting subject. So everybody so long.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
So is it useful at the individual level or is it more useful or as useful at the professional level?
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
I want to, first of all, thank our illustrious crew, Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard, who do wonderful behind-the-scenes work for us, providing Clarence and I with some good background research and ideas to talk about on all our shows. So thank you. Thank you a lot to you guys. Sheridan also helps us with our marketing.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
And then Matthew Campbell is our production manager. Make sure that these shows get out to you, the listening audience, in a crisp, clear way. So thank you to everybody. Then, of course, there's Clarence, where we do this hand-in-hand. And we've realized that, boy, we know a lot of people in the healthcare arena. So we've had a lot of guests on our shows.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
artificial intelligence, and then all of a sudden, we're kind of thrust into this thematic chaos of it all and complexity of it all. So let's start out with an individual from a healthcare perspective, all right? So let's just say you're diagnosed, an individual is diagnosed with a particular chronic disease. How is it in that moment
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
that they might be able to utilize artificial intelligence to help them.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
Yeah. So it's... If I'm hearing you right, it's almost like an easy access tool in order to communicate at higher levels or at lower levels if you need to, depending upon who you're interacting with.
Health Chatter
AI in Healthcare
And it's been a wonderful, wonderful experience. So thank you, Clarence. You're a good voice to the healthcare arena and thanks for being with us. Then in addition, Human Partnership is our sponsor for these shows, great community engagement group in Minnesota. And they are involved in a lot of great health related issues at the community level.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Our Health Chatter website is healthchatterpodcast.com. If you really love us, you can even give us a review and tell us how great our shows are. Actually, you could even do it the other way if you think it's not so great, but we'd rather have it the former way. So thanks to everybody for being with us. Thanks to our background crew. Today we have Dr. Paul Waits with us.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Paul, I've actually known, he lives in the hood, in the neighborhood here, and we run into each other every once in a while. Ironically, we did. I think if I remember right, Paul, you were walking back from the library with a backpack or a bag full of books. Exactly. And we sat and chatted. I said, God, Paul, you'd be great to be on our show. So he said, absolutely, let's do it.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So, Paul, let me ask you, why is it that it has to be a lifelong medication. Okay, I know that there are certain medications that are, you know, like thyroid, you have to take thyroid medication. If you have a thyroid problem, boom. Why in this case, why isn't it that the medications don't rid the problem?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
You know, it's interesting. I'm reading the book, the new book by Eric Larson, Demon of Unrest. And, you know, it takes place during, you know, Lincoln administration, Abraham Lincoln, and during the Civil War. And I can't tell you how many times in that book so far, I'm about 150 pages in it,
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
where they talk about gout, where some of these legislators, congressmen, et cetera, they'd have meetings together and they'd be soaking their feet in ice. Right, right, yeah.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on arthritis and rheumatology, and I've got some personal experience with this, so this is going to be an interesting show with our guest, Paul Waits. I'll introduce him in just a second. We've got a great crew, as always, that That helps Clarence and I make these shows successful for you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
He did his undergrad at Washington U and St. Louis internal medicine residency and rheumatology fellowship at the university of Minnesota did a lot of work in, in rheumatology and arthritis, and also did quite a bit of, um, research in, in that area. So not only, um, a great clinician, but a, a researcher as well. He retired. He joined our crew a few years back, but, um,
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
I'm going to go back to arthritis a little bit. Sure. Okay. Seems to me, you know, in many ways, sports, you know, and how we're involved with sports today has a tendency to lead to more arthritic types of problems. For instance, even in orthopedics, you know, they call it sports medicine now. I mean, it's like, you know. All right. So, First of all, is that true?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Second of all, because of that, are we seeing people becoming more arthritic sooner or not necessarily because it's really more connected to your genetics than anything else? So does overuse through sports or whatever lead to more arthritic conditions?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
You know, one of the things that I noticed when I help knee replacement patients is this whole idea of compensations. So it's like if your knee hurts on the right side, you have a tendency to compensate and how you walk or what have you. Then all of a sudden your hip hurts on your left side.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
He still does a lot of great volunteer work out in the community because he thinks it's important, including gardening and also mentoring students. He's got a great family. I know some of his family that lives close by, which is kind of nice when you have grandkids. So welcome to the show. It's really nice to have you. Thanks for having me.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
And so it's like this kind of back and forth and back and forth until you're able to treat one knee. or the other, whether through, you know, prevention of some sort or intervention, surgical intervention in this case. So, all right.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
It's really great. So arthritis. You know, I read through this background research, and to a certain extent, I could put all of it aside and just say it hurts. Because, you know, I have some of it myself, which I can talk about a little bit later. But all right. So let's start this thing off maybe with some definitions. You know, rheumatoid diseases, arthritic.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
You know, I often say to people, especially as you age, you really have to listen carefully to your body. You really, really do. And if you have... a high pain tolerance, like some people do, you have to learn how to put that pain tolerance aside and say, I'll get back to you in six weeks after I get rid of this pain that's hurting my back or what have you.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't, I'm sure everybody recognizes this. You wake up in the morning and you say, oh my God, where in hell did that stiffness come from? All right, so what's going on here? I mean, I certainly notice it more, you know, as I age. What's going on as, you know, when we wake up in the morning, we feel stiff all the time.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
diseases, distinctions between the two. What is it that we really need to know for the listening audience as we proceed with this show?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So, you know, our great research. has put together some background statistics here. And these are telling, I think. So just correct me if I'm wrong, but these are arthritis, 36 million ambulatory care visits yearly. I mean, that's insane. 744,000 hospitalizations, to Clarence's point, 9,300 deaths, 19 million people with activity limitations. I mean, this is, it's really rampant.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Now, this is really interesting too. When you look at race, and ethnicity, you mentioned the Somali population, but here's just an idea, and this is, I think, pretty telling. 39.1 non-Hispanic white adults reported doctor-diagnosed arthritis. Okay, so that's the white non-Hispanic.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
six million non-Hispanic Black adults, which is also very interesting because Clarence and I have talked about, we've gone through a lot of different shows and the Black population is at much higher risk for many, many diseases, but it doesn't seem to be as high in the arthritis mode. And it goes on and on. So it's like, you know, we do see some race, ethnicity differences.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Did you notice that or pick up on that in your practice at all, Paul?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So, all right. So we're going to be wrapping this up. Um, You know, certainly a takeaway is if you have an itis, an inflammation, there are ways to be more proactive than necessarily intervention. You know, for instance, like surgical intervention. That certainly is a takeaway. It's a broad subject field, rheumatology, but there have been many, many advances for sure. So last thoughts, Paul.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
That sounds great. So maybe, you know, maybe my takeaway is, hey, doc, it hurts when I do this, you know, in my elbow. Don't do that.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, Paul, thanks so much. Your insights have been golden and greatly appreciated. Frankly, I've learned that it's a much broader topic than I even imagined. And I hope our listening audience realizes that as well and acts accordingly. We have our research that will be part of our website.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Paul, if you have anything else that you want us to add to that that you think might be useful for the listening audience, please forward it to me. I'll get it on our website for the show itself. So thank you for being with us.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
It's been really good. To our listening audience, we have great shows coming up. Our next show that we're going to be doing is on infant mortality. Until that time, everybody keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So let me ask you something. It's like, okay, why is arthritis more or less linked with rheumatology, okay? If there's all these itises that are under the guise of rheumatology, why is it linked with, you know, cardiitis or, you know, you know what I mean? It's like all the other things as well. But why specifically arthritis does it seem to be linked with?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
Research is done by Maddie Levine-Wolf, who's also doing the recording of our show today. So thank you, Maddie. Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Sheridan Nygaard, all our background researchers. Sheridan also does our marketing for us. Matthew Campbell is our production guru. Without him, it would not come out to you, the listening audience, in perfect form with even a little music attached.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So how is it that rheumatologists link with, for instance, orthopedic medicine? Because orthopedic, deals a lot with inflammation of, okay, so is there a strong linkage between the two professions?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So all these people are great. Then, of course, there's Clarence. Clarence and I are great colleagues, partners, and have a lot of fun doing these shows and like to chat. And that's what this show is all about, health chatter. In addition, we have with us today, Barry Baines, who's our medical advisor and also a guest, Arianda Tordoff, who will be listening in.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So I, you bring up a really interesting point, as soon as something hurts, especially joint related, people don't necessarily, well, for sure, they think of going to really orthopedics first. What's going on? Is there a lack of good communication about what rheumatologists do? What's the deal here?
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
So again, it seems like it's very, very complementary with orthopedic for sure. All right, so let's talk about these.
Health Chatter
Arthritis and Rheumatology
And if she has questions, she can chime in as well. So thanks to everybody. Thanks also to Human Partnership, who's our sponsor for these shows, community health organization that does wonderful, wonderful things out in the community, including, Health Chatter, which is really cool. So you can see them at Human. You can visit their website at humanpartnership.org. You can also see us.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, it's funny. When I travel, I also, I put on a different kind of set of glasses as well. It's one thing, the medications that you might normally take and you need, okay? But then you also start thinking about things that you might need, okay? So for instance, you know, what if I get an upset stomach, you know, because of, you know, differences in food or water?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
What if I'm having a hard time sleeping? you know, all these kinds of, and there are certain things you can take, you know, even, you know, I take like Tums with me, you know, in case, you know, I get an upset stomach or something, you know, so at least I have something.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. Feel free to leave questions, reviews, ideas on our website. We would really appreciate the insight. So thank you to you as well.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Pepto-Bismol, Band-Aids, you know, which sound like simple little things, but, you know, you get a cut, you know, oh my God, I'm in the middle of nowhere here. Where in the hell can I get a simple Band-Aid? Well, okay. Keep those in your dop kit or your travel bag. But simple little things that you don't necessarily think of all the time. Like, for instance, I carry Band-Aids in my wallet.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
That's because I have grandkids. Because everywhere they go, they're falling down and getting a scratch here or there.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Or like if you're going on a plane, again, let's just talk overseas just for a second here. It's like what's going to help you sleep, literally sleep? So some people will put a mask on or some people will have noise-canceling earphones so they don't hear any noise around them when they're trying to just get some sleep.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So the issue is, or the important point to take away from this, is know yourself. Before you go, and Barry, to your point, it's like a little bit of a checklist above and beyond what you normally would take with you, you know, medications, et cetera, that can help in particular situations. So I can reflect on one thing. I went to a conference once out in Denver, and God, I got food poisoning.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And so I remember... walking into the pharmacist, into a pharmacy there, and I said to the pharmacist, I think I got food poisoning. And his response to me was, if you think you have food poisoning, you do. And so it's like knowing...
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
you know, quickly what to do in order to get assistance, you know, when these kinds of things happen to you that you don't normally experience maybe when you're, when you're home. So I want to switch gears a little bit about the pros and cons of traveling and our health. Okay. So, um, you know, for all of us, you know, Maddie, Aaron, you can chime in too, because I know you guys have traveled.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So today's subject is health and travel, which it's kind of interesting because in my estimation, during the COVID pandemic, when it was at its height, there were really travel implications as it related to health, and in this case, COVID, And it was interesting, all the different things that you had to be aware of when you were traveling. But there are other things as well.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
What are, what are some of the pros and cons that, that you've experienced? You know, Clarence, you can start us off on that. What do you think the pros are for, for traveling?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
All right. So for me, you know what it is? It's like, what are you traveling for? What's the purpose of your traveling? Is the traveling for personal reasons, personal vacation or what have you? Or is it business related? And it creates, at least for me, it created a different psyche in my head.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Okay, it's like, okay, I'm going on this particular trip or wherever it is to truly relax, do something different, et cetera. Whereas a business-related or work-related travel puts you in a completely different way. Oh, my God, do I have to give a presentation? And, you know, it's like it puts you all in a different kind of mindset and
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, I can relate to that. I I recently went on a road trip with my pooch, and we went to a couple of places. I'll just tell you two of them. One was in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, which was the original site of nuclear science, the Manhattan Project. And then the other site that we went to, another one was a battle at Fredericksburg.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And when you just stand there and you just reflect for just a moment or two, what has transpired on the spot that you're standing, it really, it really takes you to a different place in your head. And you can't, you can't do that just, you know, from your home, you know, Another place was the Flight 93 memorial site where the plane crashed in Pennsylvania.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So our crew is going to be talking about travel and health today. Every one of us has done some traveling, whether it's in the United States or overseas. And it really is interesting when, if you just think about packings, You know, when you pack and get ready to go, you know, what kind of health-oriented things are in your mind? You know, Barry, you're probably a good one on this one.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Good morning, everybody in Health Chatter World. Welcome to today's show. We're going to be talking about traveling and health. What are the things you need to keep in mind when you travel? And also the benefits of traveling on our health. And there are some benefits and maybe not some for some people. So we'll be talking about all of that. We've got a great crew, Manny Levine-Wolfe.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You stand there and you realize, oh, my God, what has happened or what happened here. And those are healthy things. Those are healthy thoughts to have. And you realize that there are sometimes things in your life that that are much, much bigger than you, and here it happened. And so there are some real advantages to doing those types of things.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
On the other side of the equation, for some people, traveling is incredibly stressful. I'll give you a story on that one. Just last week, I picked my sister and brother-in-law up. They were flying back from Hartford, Connecticut, and their plane was delayed three hours. They were on the plane for an hour. They were supposed to have gotten home, you know, whatever.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And the logistics of it all, when you think about people who are aging, especially, becomes much, much more difficult to navigate logistics. Like, for instance, in airports, My sister, when I picked them up at the airport, almost the first thing she said to me was this, I'm done flying. I'm done flying. It's such a pain in the you-know-where.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
She said, it's so much easier to just throw a suitcase in the back of your car and go. Just go wherever. So ease of travel can be on one side a pro and on the other side a god. Obviously, plane travel gets you there theoretically faster, but what do you have to do to get through all the logistics of it all?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
One thing that I've noticed is there are certain places in the world that they have health advisories. And if you're planning on traveling to some of these places, it's definitely worthwhile to check out. where these health advisories are. If you're flying, typically the airlines will have them on your app, on your phone, if you happen to have your phone with you at the time.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Or also you can check them out. The Centers for Disease Control keeps an update on health advisories around the world that are going on. There are also upticks from time to time in infectious diseases. We're starting to see that in the United States with COVID again. We're running into the, I guess, the higher COVID season. We're going to be running into the flu season.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And when you travel, you're putting yourself at potentially at a higher risk. There's also cruise ships. which also creates some things. I personally got COVID when I was on a cruise in Alaska, and it's really interesting because when you're on a cruise ship, they have their own medical department and the whole nine yards, and people aren't necessarily aware of that, but
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
They do have that and it's at your disposal if you need it. In my case, I did. I did need it. So Aaron or Maddie, any thoughts from you about all your great travels? I know you've gone places.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, what kind of health things do you keep in mind when you're getting ready to go to wherever you're going to go?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. You know, and relaxation for some is different. You know, for some people, relaxation, throw me on a beach and leave me alone. You know, put me under an umbrella and, you know, I want to listen to the waves coming in. For other people, that's the most boring thing in the world and they can't stand it. And they'd rather go, you know, walking on the boardwalk
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
you know, next to the ocean. And again, it's a different scenery, but it's a different form of relaxation. For some people, you know, for some people, I want to read a book, buy a book. For other people, that's all I do at home, I read. So I don't want to read now. I want to go to the museum or I want to, you know, go eat somewhere that's different.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Yeah, I think when you travel, it gives you the opportunity to define space differently and experience things
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
differently so okay honey you want to go shopping down fifth avenue in new york great you go ahead i'm gonna go to the museum of art okay you know so it's just it's a different um a different perspective and and you say okay well wait you know why don't we do a little bit of both i mean so you know there's balance that can be done as well um or alone time you know is is
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
you do have to have a level of flexibility. So like, it's one thing what you've planned, geez, you know, we really want to go to here, here, here, here, here. Okay. And then, well, it turns out all those places are outside and it turns out that that those three days in a row, it's pouring rain, you know?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So now what, you know, you know, and then, and then, you know, for some people that really puts them in a tizzy. It's like, Oh my God, you know, You know, get out the travel book.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, the other thing, too, is what you crave. Like, for instance, when I go to New York City, I crave having a good pastrami sandwich. I really do. Or, you know, a good bagel, okay? You know, I don't eat it every day, but, you know, it's something that, you know, Somehow or other, I got to make sure I do when I'm there. Okay.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So that's another thing that, you know, people look into to have some fun or different is eating differently. But eating differently can affect your health. So you got to be careful about that. You know, it's like you got to watch it. One other thing I wanted to bring up is mobility.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So one of the things is, especially for people who are getting closer to retire or retiring, if you ask them what they want to do when they retire, one of the things on their list for sure, besides more time with family and grandkids and that kind of thing, is travel. But none of them, most of them, I shouldn't say none, most retire. Don't prepare themselves for that.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Oh, we're going to go hiking in Portugal, in the mountains in Portugal. Oh, really? Have you done any exercises? Have you prepared yourself for a five-mile walk? And the answer is not a problem when we get there. Well, sure enough, when they get there, They go on a five mile hike and then for the next three days, they can barely move.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, so prepping, knowing your age and your limitations, prepping ahead of time is important as well. You know, knowing in advance what you should do, I think is very, very important. You know, when I come back from traveling I don't know about you, but I always appreciate getting home.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
No matter where, no matter how fun it is, how relaxing it was, how great it was, how beautiful, blah, blah, blah. There is, for me, I'm talking for myself, there is something comforting about getting home. If for no other reason, your own bed. Right? Okay. So I think that that's something. One other thing I wanted to bring up is CPAP machines.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
For people who are experiencing or have apnea, sleep apnea, what you should know, if you take your... I suffer from that. I have apnea. It is not considered a carry-on when you go on an airplane. You can take it in a bag in addition to
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
regular carry-on because it's considered a medical device okay and of course you don't want to pack that in your suitcase either you know that goes underneath because god knows where your suitcase is going to land up so it's just like your medication you take it with you wherever and there are other other illustrations of that type of thing.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
When you go overseas, they're different than the electrical outlets. You have the adapters. You have to bring proper cords to charge phones and devices, etc. All these little things become a checklist. The bottom line is travel Overall, it is experiential, and it can be healthy for some, and for some people it's more stressful. I think it becomes a little bit more stressful.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
I think I can go out on the edge here. As you acquire health issues yourself that you have to keep in mind, whereas before when you're younger you just say, You pack your bag, you get on the plane, you go. As you get older and you have more medical issues, you have to be more cognizant of those when you travel. Last comments, Barry.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
My last thing, there are many, many resources out there on traveling. There's a book called Atlas Obscura. which is an atlas of different places from around the world that you might not even think about going to that are quite, quite special.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
There's also, I believe it's called Gastro Obscura, which all these different places around the world, you can imagine, have great restaurants that you might want to check in with. And the last thing I'm going to say is that You know, Barry and Clarence and I, we grew up in a map world where we had a hardcore map in our hands, right? A lot of those things are available now on a phone.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And that creates some angst for people where, you know, on an app, for instance, on a phone, you necessarily can't see the full picture of where you're going versus, you know... a little portion of a place where you're going. And some people can't navigate using the technology that's available. So again, those are types of things that you keep in mind when you travel.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
You know, it's like when you go overseas, you know, it's one thing to be vaccinated. And then how do you show proof that you have been? So to be honest with you, it certainly was heightened during COVID where you had an actual card with you that indicated your vaccinations. But other vaccinations, like I can tell you right now, I don't have any kind of a card or a certificate. Right.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Bottom line is, is it good for you? Yeah, it's good for you. It causes your brain to think about different things. And that's really good. Maddie, thoughts, last thoughts.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And, you know, there are different types of places to go to. You can travel to a national park, which is a completely different type of trip than going to New York City where you're walking down Fifth Avenue. Okay, it's a different type of hike. And you have to make those assessments on what you want to do when you want to do them.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
If you are an extrovert, it dictates certain things. If you are an introvert, it dictates certain things and it dictates different things when you're in different cultures. But that thought, I hope everybody keeps health chatting away. We've got a great show coming up next on Indian Health with the new director of Indian Health from the Minnesota Department of Health.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, and Sheridan Nygaard are all great behind-the-scenes people that keep this show really moving for us, do our research, our production, our marketing, so thank you to you guys. Dr. Barry Baines is our medical advisor, provides insight from a medical lens, and we've really greatly appreciated his insights since he's joined the Health Chatter team.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
Um, you know, I, I keep thinking about, um, you know, overall, you know, like when, for instance, if you go overseas and, um, and Barry, I'm sure you can respond to that there. When, when people take medications, um, you know, you can call it medication management, but think of it this way.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
It's like when you go over, you know, five, six, seven, eight time zones, and you're supposed to take your medication in the morning and in the evening. Okay. So, you know, based on your experience, what do you tell patients to do? What do you tell them to do in order to I guess, adjust when you take medication? Or do you keep on the same time frame so your body doesn't get totally out of whack?
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So, you know, I here's another tidbit. And I ran into this problem. I was just going out east. This was about a month or so ago. A friend of mine drops me off at the airport. I said, you know, I said, Forrest, thanks for the lift. I walked into the, and he took off. I walked into the airport and I realized I did not have my mobile phone. I left my mobile phone at home.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, who's co-host with me on these shows. We do a lot of chatting on air and off air. And it's been a pleasure. So thanks to everybody. Human Partnership is our sponsor for our Health Chatter shows. Thank you to them. Great community health organization. Does wonderful things in the community. Check them out at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
It's just like, do you have an idea how much you are dependent on that little device to in order to navigate God knows what. And so this is what I highly recommend. In your wallet, have a card with five or six phone numbers on it. Because to be honest with you, I don't even remember phone numbers anymore. Everything is, you know, speed dialed, etc.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
And what you should know is when you go to the airport, And if you run into that problem, like I did, if you go to the information booth at the airport, they have a regular phone and you can call somebody. OK, they also all airports have courtesy phones as well. But you have to know which number you're going to call. And if you don't remember them, you're in trouble.
Health Chatter
Traveling & Health
So I recommend to everybody out in the listening audience in your wallet or in your purse that Put just a small little card with three or four phone numbers on it in case you run into a problem like I did. Otherwise, it's very stressful. Okay, Clarence, I know you've gone to many, many places. Here, there, and everywhere.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
You know, you allude to the idea of kind of the wrong order of things. You know, kids are not supposed to die before you do. Okay? I mean, that's just kind of the logical order that you think of as a parent. And that puts stress on it, on the whole situation, no matter what. It does.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yeah. So let's talk about, again, I'm going to connect this to health, advocacy and health. What was it? We can get into all the kind of things that you've been involved with, but how was it that the advocacy work helped you health-wise?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And just so everybody knows, we get all of our research notes out to you on our website so you can listen and read up as well. And also check out some of the different websites that we provide for you and your background interests. So thank you to you as well, the listening audience. Today, I have a great guest. She and I go back a long, long way. Patty Wetterling is with us.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So, you know, our great research crew, and you can probably check in on this to see if we're right, but some of the facts that, sad as they may be, in the U.S., a child goes missing or is abducted every 40 seconds. So that's about 2,300 children missing. per day, which is just, I mean, you know, how do people even get their head around that? It's just to me, it's staggering.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
The FBI estimates that of the approximately 840,000 people reported missing each year, 85 to 90% of them are children.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
We're going to be talking about... We've kind of titled this show, Sorrow, Hope, and Health. For those of you that have been certainly in the state of Minnesota, the story that Patty... brings to all of us and brought to the forefront was the unfortunate abduction of her son, Jacob, back in 1989. And it really was a sad, sad day. But I will say this, that out of all of it,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yeah. Yeah. And of course, then it gets into the whole idea of accurate information and information that is not accurate and access to all these different sites, etc. So Apparently, there are benign reasons. I guess they're described as this. Benign reasons for that children are missing. And then there are, I guess, serious. I guess maybe that's the word to use.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
But, you know, kids will run away, right? Okay, so that's... Or there's a family... Abduction, right? So, and those are, I guess, relatively benign as opposed to what you alluded to, stranger.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter and yet another special show, which we'll get to in a second. But this one is really near and dear to my heart. And you'll see why in a second. I'd like to thank our great crew, as I always do. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do wonderful background research, along with Sheridan Nygaard, who does research and our marketing.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And those are happy stories, you know, at the end. You know, it's like, you know, moving on. So, you know, I want you to try to remember because this kind of stuck in my head. I know Jacob was part of the story. He was on his bicycle. And, okay, so riding a bike for a kid is like,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
holy right i mean it's like all right so you know right well yeah right it's kind of like when you get to drive a car okay same idea all right but try to reflect for us a little bit on um your other children when they faced or took out their bike
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
came some hope and hopefully some happiness. So Patty was a stay-at-home mother with her four children when the abduction of Jacob took place. She has done incredible advocacy work that, to be quite honest with you, is really second to none. She's been on the the Board of Directors for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and was the chair of that group as well.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
for maybe the first time after Jacob was abducted, was there a sense of being scared, or I'm not going to do this, or I'm never going to ride a bike again? Or was there any of that? And if so, how as a mother did you help them?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So, um, I guess maybe the takeaway on that is everybody, no matter how old you are, deals with this kind of a situation perhaps differently psychologically and physically. And we all have to kind of hug each other and help each other as you go. And as like kids mature, even those types of things can kick into gear.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
You know, it's interesting. My, you know, our kids, you know, Janet's and my kids, yeah, are grown, they're adults, but they come and visit, okay? And inevitably when they come and visit, then they go out with, you know, their friends that they grew up with here. And to this day, Janet and I will say, listen, when you come home, just let us know that you're here.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And keep in mind, one of them lives in Bethesda and the other one lives in Boston. We have absolutely no clue what's going on normally, but when they're in your own environment, it's like that parent extra sense kicks into gear and you just need to know that they're safe.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
She's been a consultant in the Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency and Sexual Violence and Prevention. She was a dear colleague of mine, even all those years, but then also at the Department of Health where, and Patty will be able to allude to this, where she realized that not only was the issue itself a public safety issue, but also a public health issue.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So let me, yeah, I mean, that's, I guess that's what we're supposed to do, right? And we're not, and we're not experts at it. So we keep kind of trying, you know, So over the years, you've helped pass a variety of bills, legislation, state level, national level. Can you reflect on that a little bit and what implications this has for people's health and safety going forward?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So we'll get into that in a minute. But many of the things as it relates to child abduction in all the laws that have been passed well these years, much credit really goes to Patty and her work. And so Many, many thanks. And I hope going forward for you, Patty, there will be happiness. So thanks for being with us today on Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
You know, just around a dinner table, you can, all right, let's take one of these.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So let me ask you, there's, you know, Sheridan is, you know, a younger generation. And there are many people that weren't aware of your story. But it's not so much the story now. It's kind of the things that we're taking and going forward with. So one that really I applaud are Amber Alerts. All of a sudden, you know, a kid is missing and there's an amber alert that's put out.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And it's really interesting. I might be in a car or what have you. And I'll hear this and all of a sudden it's like this heightened sense of of awareness. And all of a sudden it's like, yes, for all of us, there's this extra sense that's put into high gear in order to really help this situation. So based on your experience with Amber Alerts, have they been successful?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
To our advantage at this point. So, Addie, in our few minutes that we have together, tell us a little bit about your book.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yeah, well, it's... It's kind of like with good colleagues, you just pick up where you left off. It's like good friends. It's just like if you haven't seen each other for a while, just pick up where you left off. All right, so let's get this show going here. A key question that really drove my thinking about this is, How was it, you know, all these years?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So, you know, I think it's important for our listening audience to realize too that change is um, doesn't necessarily have to be linked with an event that happens. Okay. Like, um, in your case, obviously it did, it did Patty and led to incredible advocacy work, but, um, there could be situations that you just come across and you say, geez, you know, that's not right. And you can go forth with it.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Okay. It doesn't have to be something that, that really hits you really hard. I can reflect on one. I, a colleague of mine, we were, we were seeing a kid in a car with no seat belts and no child restraints. And, And, you know, they come to a stoplight and they, you know, the parents put on the brakes and, you know, the kid goes flying in the car and we're saying, whoa. Yeah. Wait a minute here.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Something, you know, of course, we had kind of our public health hats on. And lo and behold, there's child restraint laws and seatbelt laws. Okay, so it doesn't necessarily have to be an event per se. It's something that you might see or what have you. And it doesn't have to be necessarily traumatic as well. But they all have public health implications.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
And I'm sure for you, Patty, if you make a difference or one family, then I'm sure you have that sense that your work has been fulfilled for sure. Okay. If it's just one, you know, it's just, that's what it's all about.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Describe for me, I guess, the ups and downs of health. You know, when you were dealing with it from the very beginning to actually where you are now, can you reflect on the ups and downs of health that you went through, whether it was physically or mentally, or both?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Yeah. I've been saying, I've been saying to a lot of people with all the problems that are going on in the world, wouldn't it be great if we just had a chill out day, international chill out day where, okay, come on, we're all on this planet together. Let's come out. We can do this. Yeah.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
It's just like, yeah, it is. It absolutely is. Final thoughts, Patty, what, what's a takeaway that, maybe one or two that you really want our listening audience to know or to sense going forward.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Well, I will say this. Well, these years, um, you've carried that torch beautifully, absolutely beautifully. And, um, and I, for one, just as, as, as a, um, as a colleague, I want to really, really thank you. Um, you've done incredible work and, um, it came from sadness, but you made that sadness into something that's good. And, um, I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say thanks.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Many, many thanks. So ironically, we have an interesting show coming up next for Health Chatter on unintentional injuries for children that are happening with children with Dr. Tom Kotke. He'll be coming with us next. We have great shows for the rest of the year lined up. And so we hope that all of you will continue to listen, check out our website, and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So thank you to all of you. And Matthew Campbell is our production manager, gets all these shows out to you, the listening audience. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, who's my co-host. Unfortunately, he can't be with us today. He's got to attend a family funeral in Chicago. But he's got some great questions that I'll be able to pose to our great guest today. So thank you to all of you.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So was that true for, I mean, you know, I certainly can remember the personal fortitude that you had, but was that true for your other family members too? Did you see ups and downs differently for them as far as their health was concerned?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
So, um, there's a couple of questions that I'll get to in a minute about, you know, kids in their, in their sense of fear after, you know, witnessing or being part of that. I'll get to that in a second, but, um, I don't even know if this is a fair word to use, but given, given where everything is now, um,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
has there been some kind of a sense of closure or is it always high in your head on what can we do next in this problem of abductions and sexual exploitation? Maybe another way of saying, do you ever give yourself a break health-wise?
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Also, thanks to Human Partnerships. community health organization in the state of Minnesota that's really second to none as far as promoting health for all of us, no matter where you come from and what community you live in, they are quite good. You can check them out at humanpartnership.org. You can check us out, Health Chatter, at healthchatterpodcast.com.
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
Um, so let me, let me ask you this cause I know we, we chatted about this a little bit. Um, this type of situation in abduction, um, as sad as it is, there's also other things that, um, parents go through or potentially go through with, with children like illness. Okay. Like, you know, children will, a child might have a cancer or, um,
Health Chatter
Sorrow, Hope and Health
even we're seeing, you know, young people having like heart attacks and strokes. Have you ever had a chance to talk with anyone who is dealing with a health issue of their, of that type of thing and compare it to a loss like, like you went through?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So, all right, today we have two great guests, colleagues of mine that I have worked with for a long time, Jay Desai and Kate Murray. Jay heads up the chronic disease epidemiologist at the Minnesota Department of Health.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So, all right. So here's a personal story. So for listening audience, I, my wife and I both got COVID when we were on vacation up in, in Alaska. And, you know, of course you gotta go through the whole nine yards of isolating and that whole thing. For my wife, she got over it and that was it. For me, I lost my sense of taste and smell. Okay, so now at first,
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I asked myself, well, geez, you know, this isn't so unusual because I have allergies, too. You know, and sometimes when you have allergies, you can't always smell really well or taste very well. But now it's been lingering on. And it's an interesting phenomenon because you still feel hungry. You know, you want to eat.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
But you could be eating garbage for all that matter because you can't taste anything. There are certain things though, for those of you who might be suffering from this, there are certain things that have a tendency to help. Lemon drops, believe it or not, because it has a stronger taste to it, helps. And it also helps to create more saliva. And also ironically, I can taste pickles
Health Chatter
Long Covid
of all things, you know, so between lemon drops and pickles, I'm having a really hell of a good time. But it is, for those of you who have these particular symptoms, it is getting better. It's slow, but it's getting better. The other thing that I've noticed, and this would be something to maybe look into is what your brain remembers. Like my brain remembers a good chocolate bar.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
He received his doctorate in epidemiology from the University of Minnesota, currently leads the Minnesota Department of Health Long COVID Program, along with other things, sickle cell data collection, Minnesota cancer reporting system, et cetera. He's been involved in a lot of things.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
It really remembers that. And so even though I might not taste it, physically per se, when I chomp down on a good chocolate bar, I can kind of taste it because I think my brain is telling me what I should remember. OK, so I think it works hand in hand with these things. The one thing you have to be careful of, though, with certainly with taste and smell is if you can't smell for sure.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
It's like if all of a sudden you have a gas leak or something in your home, you have to be really careful. OK, because I I'll tell you right now, I wouldn't I wouldn't smell that. OK, Clarence, take it away.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I worked with Jay when he was at the health department on his first round, when he was involved with the diabetes unit, and we were great, great colleagues. I've always been impressed with Jay because somehow or other, he always asks the good, hard question. And we don't always have the answers, but at any rate, he always asks some really great questions. So thanks, Jay, for being with us.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
All right. So Kate, chime in here a little bit, okay? Because I know that you've been involved with this, you know, with everything public health oriented wise, and the response to it wise. So Chime in here on, all right, what is it that the essence of what we really need to know around this whole thing at this point?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on long COVID. And we've got two great experts with us today that will be sharing their thoughts about it. We've got a great crew that always puts our shows in really good, good shape. And they include Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Sheridan Nygaard, Deandra, Howard, and Matthew Campbell. Thanks to all of you guys.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So, Jay, you know, grants, you know, so I don't know where the grants are coming from to like the Department of Health. Are they CDC oriented grants or? NIH or both. But my question is, what are the questions that we are really, really focusing on on the front end here, research-wise, and hopefully getting some answers?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So like in the research that the two of you are involved in right now, what's, I guess, what are the defining questions? Because apparently there are a lot of them. but what are the defining questions for the grants and the research that you guys are doing?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Kate Murray, Program Manager for Long COVID and Post-COVID Conditions at the Minnesota Department of Health. She spent a long time dealing with COVID at the Department of Health, a 20-month assignment at the Department of Health when everything was going kind of crazy and everything was, there were a lot of things to do for sure.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Thank you. So do you think that, you know, from a prevention standpoint, vaccinations hopefully will prevent you from getting it, or if you do get it, your case hopefully will not lend itself to you being hospitalized or the severity of it would be reduced significantly. Do you anticipate that vaccines down the pike will focus on some of these symptoms that we're seeing for long COVID as well?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And put that, put those, whatever they're able to do, into the vaccine so that not only can you prevent from getting it, but if you do get it, you're not gonna have a severe case. And hopefully you won't experience some of the long COVID experiences. And use me as a guinea pig, for God's sakes. I mean, I've been up to date on vaccines in the whole nine yards. I get COVID, okay?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Fortunately, it wasn't severe in my estimation, but yet I have long COVID, a long COVID symptom. So I'm just wondering, might the research lend itself to preventing the disease altogether, and if you get it, mild and addressing symptoms? Do you think that that's down the pike or who knows?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
She holds a Master of Public Health in Administration and Policy from the University of Minnesota and a Bachelor of Science in Biology and Health Sciences from South Dakota State University. So I want to thank you both sincerely for being on Health Chatter. So I'm going to start this off by asking this simple question. Long COVID. So here we go.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I think one of the symptoms that I've noticed is that I'm adverse to mowing the lawn. It just came out of nowhere.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
It's like, I don't understand why we don't have long flu, long cold. long allergies, long whatever. So what is this deal with long? Is it just something that was dubbed for COVID? Or what's the deal here? Where did this long idea come from? Because people get sick and they have these symptoms afterwards on a lot of different, a variety of different diseases and entities. But
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, one thing that's really struck me is the effect that COVID overall has had on our lifestyles. So think about just how we go about doing work now, okay? We're not interacting in person anymore. I mean, everything, you know, a good portion is done via, you know, Zoom, for instance.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And I just wonder whether or not that might be studied as well, the social impact that COVID in the long term has or will have on all of us going forward. There are occupations that obviously require person to person contact.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
But, you know, it's like if I were at the health department now, and if I had a question, you know, for either one of you, I just, you know, it'd be nice to just be able to, you know, run over to your office and say, hey, you know, JAK, what do you think? That doesn't exist or it doesn't exist in the same way. And I just wonder whether or not long COVID will address that type of thing as well.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Why long specifically for COVID? Do either one of you have an idea on that one?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah, and there probably isn't a lot to talk about yet because we don't know the answers yet.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I put it on mute because Murphy was barking. So here's an important thing for all of us. It's we as human beings don't get sick just from COVID or we don't continue to get sick because of COVID. of just because of long COVID. We get sick from other things too, okay? And we shouldn't ignore those things. You know, I certainly was aware of that, you know, working in the cardiovascular unit.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
It's like, you know, people didn't show up at the emergency room with, you know, potential stroke or heart attack because they were thinking that, you know, I don't wanna get close to anybody who's got COVID. But we as human beings get sick from other things too. What I think is encouraging, I mean, there's always a silver lining here.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
You know, for years and years, when you work in the health department, there's kind of like the infectious disease unit is over here, and the chronic disease unit is over here, right? And, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, they're great colleagues, but you don't talk that much. Okay. This would be perhaps a way that we really do talk because COVID certainly has implications.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
If you're diabetic or if you have heart disease or chronic disease, it can complicate that. And so this might be a true opportunity to really link all the different health entities that we deal with together and and use COVID as the excuse. I don't care, but maybe the time has come that we do do that.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Great, great. Well, you know, I thank you both. This is an ongoing subject. I hope that we can put some of the information from the health department on our website so people have access to that information through another venue. I hope too that Kate and Jay, you'll be in contact with us with a simple email. Stan, we got to do another podcast quick because we got some really good information
Health Chatter
Long Covid
that I think the public would be interested in. So we reserve that right one way or the other to circle back to you on COVID. With regards to vaccinations, I've been reminding people to get vaccinated. People are spending more time, like Jay had said, indoors now because it's starting to get a little cooler. which increases the possibility of spread of illness.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So now's a good time to get vaccinated, cross-check with your physician on flu, COVID, RSV vaccination, and also pneumococcal vaccinations as well. I do encourage you to check with your physician beforehand. With that, I would like to say thank you to everybody for listening to our show. Our next show will be on the cancer plan from the state of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
We talked about some of the various other plans, and now we're going to be focusing on cancer. That's the next show for Health Chatter. So everybody, keep health chatting on.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So this idea of long is not new, but maybe it's more in front of our faces just because of what COVID did for all of us. All right, so Jay, pick this off. What exactly is long COVID?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So who tells you, in other words? And I'll talk about that because I have one of them, And it's an interesting one. Clarence, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
They either are involved in research for the background for the show or marketing or production. So it's a great, wonderful crew and thank you very, very, very much. Clarence Jones is my partner in crime on this show. It's a great, great honor to work with him. Wolde's episodes. This is episode 68, which is amazing. We've been at it that long. So Clarence, it's always great. So thank you.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So let's talk about testing a little bit because I certainly remember when I was at the health department, all the different types of testing, everything from the tests not being available yet to tests where you would go to a clinic or a particular site, all the way down to at-home tests. And one of the things that...
Health Chatter
Long Covid
that really was curious to me was, you know, access, you know, this whole, this whole idea of access to the tests, you know, like, I remember, you know, schlepping to the airport, because, you know, my wife and I, we had to get over to Israel, because a family member had passed away, we had an Oh, my God, the testing that we had to go through before traveling, and then when we were there, and then before we came back, and
Health Chatter
Long Covid
I also remember, and this is me talking now, I also remember at the very, very front end of COVID, I had a cough that I swear to God, it must have lasted forever. It just seemed like it would not go away. And this is before COVID really started hitting the scene, so to speak. And so now I reflect back and I'm thinking, Wow. Might I have had it back then. All right.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
So let's talk about long COVID as it relates to testing. Okay. So it's like, for instance, if I were to have long COVID, should I continue to test every once in a while just to see if I'm harboring anything? Or should I just go with the flow at this point?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
And then of course, there's Human Partnership, which is a community organization involved in health issues in our community. They're a great organization. They help sponsor our health chatter broadcast for you, the listening audience, to thank you To them, you can check them out at humanpartnership.org. So thank you to everybody.
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Okay, so Kate, so for our listening audience, if you have symptoms of, you know, any of the symptoms, we'll get into that in a moment here, any of the symptoms of long COVID, but you're over that acute stage, is it fair to say that you are not contagious?
Health Chatter
Long Covid
Yeah. Well, my dog has not picked up on it for sure. Okay. Clarence, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
With that, I'm going to turn our great show coming up here over to my co-host. Clarence Jones. Clarence, take it away.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Are there seasonal differences in the safety of water? For instance, if it's really hot outside or if it's like the middle of summer and there are a lot of fertilizers that are being used on lawns and in crops and everything, are there seasonal variations in overall safety of water?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's show, it's actually kind of a special show when you really get down to it. It's about water and health. And if you really think about it, water, one way or another, affects all of us. So we'll get to all of our illustrious guests. We have quite a few of them for our show today in just a minute.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So let me ask you, there are certain things that are not good in water like lead, but then again, there are certain things that are good in water and sometimes what we add to the water, like fluoride in water, fluoridation. And we see some political ramifications behind that. There are some communities that are against fluoridation of water, et cetera, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Yeah, you know, it's... What also strikes me is what I would consider to be like border issues. Like how is it that we maintain the same kind of safety in our water that they do like in Wisconsin or in Iowa? I mean, you know, the difference between a border is aligned. So how is it that we work with states across the border for safety of water?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
You know, for those of us who have public health backgrounds, you know, inevitably, one way or the other, there's always conversations around water, everybody. doesn't matter where you are around the world, is linked with water one way or another. And when water is compromised, it really is a problem. So let's talk about water being compromised first.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So, you know, it's really interesting when you start reading about space exploration. And one of the first things that, when you're exploring space, is whether or not there's water available, no matter what. And there's scientific evidence investigations for water. So obviously, it's not just the liquid gold per se here, but it's also in the universe as a whole.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So let me bring up another issue that's kind of hitting all of us, and that's war. So, you know, there are two major wars that are going on in the world right now, one in Ukraine and one in Israel and in Gaza. And there's a lot of destruction. And almost the first thing that comes out of that is the need for water. One way or the other, there's a need for water.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
And when these wars stop, or they're done, and hopefully sooner than later, How is it that a war torn area can develop, frankly, relatively quickly safe water for its population? Or is that something that's got to be brought in until a new infrastructure is developed?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Yeah, yeah. So for our listening audience, this is interesting. Perhaps either one of you can reflect on this. This is from our research crew, four and a half million Minnesotans. And we're just talking Minnesota now. So you can kind of guess what it might be in your particular state, whoever is listening. 4.5 million Minnesotans consume water from 6,649 public water systems.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
This is just Minnesota now, which include municipalities, resorts, daycares, restaurants, and other establishments that provide drinking water. So I mean, when you think about that, for most of us, this is kind of invisible to us, which by the way, success of public health is often invisible. It's when all of a sudden there's like a problem that becomes more visible to all of us.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
And what are the things that can compromise our drinking water? So either Ana or Sandeep, you want to take that one?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Like all of a sudden the water doesn't taste good or it looks funny or what have you, or there's contaminants in it. But in Minnesota, we're in pretty good shape. Minnesota has an exceptionally high rate of compliance with the safe
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Drinking Water Act, and I think Sandeep, you mentioned that, nearly 98% of public water systems and over 99% of the population they serve have drinking water that meets all federal-based standards. That's pretty good, pretty, pretty good. And it really goes to you, the professionals that monitor this and connect with one another statewide to make sure that our drinking water is safe.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So tell me, if, you know, so this is, you know, a health chatter. What do you want the public to know? I mean, if, you know, a couple one-liners from each one of you. to end our show with you, what would it be, Anna, for our listening audience?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Thank you. The expertise that, like I had mentioned, almost invisible to most of the population comes from people like you, the professionals.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
aspects of helping to keep all of us safe and it's it's really greatly appreciated we also greatly appreciate the insights that you've given to all of us in our drinking water something that we take for granted but perhaps a takeaway from this show is you shouldn't take it for granted there are things that you can do to help make it continue to be safe going forward so
Health Chatter
Water & Health
Thank you both Sandeep and Anna for being with us today. We have great shows coming up on Health Chatter. One down the pipe pretty quick is on organ donation, which should be an interesting topic. And we'll see, maybe we can get more and more people to be organ donors when they listen to our show. So stay tuned for that.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
In the meantime, to all of you out in our listening audience, keep health chatting Oh, wait.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
We have a great crew that makes all Health Chatter broadcasts. successful, including Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard, who do our background research. All our research will be available, is available on our website. And for this show, you'll see all that as well. Our production manager is Matthew Campbell and our marketing person and researcher is Sheridan Nygaard.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So one quick thing, and then I'll let Clarence chime in here. You said, it was interesting, you said for human consumption. Well, we also have animals too. Okay, so like, you know, for the listening audience, right behind me is my dog. So is water, the safety of water for humans and for animals as well? Or is it, how is it distinguished, I guess?
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So thank you to all of you. Without your assistance, none of these shows would be successful. You're a great crew. And then of course, there's my co-host for all the shows on Health Chatter, and that's Clarence Jones. It's been a pleasure working with you. Whoa, these shows. I think we're closing in on our 80th show here, 80, 81st show, something like that. And it's been really quite interesting.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
We've learned a lot, a lot. Then we also have Human Partnership, who's our sponsor for all of our shows. It's a great community health organization. Recommend that all of you check out their website at Human Partnership. That's H-U-E-M-A-N. HealthChatterPartnership.org. Thanks so much. And you can also check out our website at HealthChatterPodcast.com.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
So let me, I'm going to go back a little historically here. For those of us in public health where we remember John Snow, okay, and a cholera epidemic that happened in London, England, and they found that it was a contaminated, basically, water that was coming out of a pump, the Broad Street pump in England. So let's talk about disease and water. And also, I'll add one thing on this.
Health Chatter
Water & Health
We've all gone through COVID, and actually, we're still dealing with it. But lately, the last, what, year, maybe two years, we've been seeing reports of COVID showing up in water sampling. in order for us to determine how severe it is in our environment. So can either one of you talk about disease and water?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So how do you, you know, I keep thinking, I remember our son had his first, when he had his first birthday party and of course we had a cake and I think that was like the first, you know, taste of sugar and he went nuts when he first tasted it. And so it's like, okay, going forward though, how do you define moderation?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
I mean, you know, these things are in our environment where we have these sugary cereals, we have these sugary drinks, we have things that are causing us to get obese. How is it from a prevention standpoint, we can work with people or communities on identifying moderation?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So thanks to everybody. Finally, Human Partnership. is our community sponsor. I suggest that you see, you check out their website at humanpartnership.org. It's a great community organization that does wonderful things in the health arena. So thank you to them. So today, As I said, we're going to be talking about childhood diabetes. We've got two great guests.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So let me ask you, so the Department of Health, this is the State Department of Health in Minnesota, Health Chatter goes to a variety of different people around the United States. Are we seeing similar problems in different areas of the United States and in different communities? Or is it
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
is what we're seeing for childhood diabetes pretty consistent nationwide as far as prevention-oriented activities in order to help make a difference here. So are we only talking about Minnesota or can we generalize to the greater United States?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on childhood diabetes, which, you know, from my perspective, is kind of sad that we actually have to talk about childhood diabetes. But we're seeing increased numbers, and we'll get into that in just a moment. We have a great
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Actually, I should say colleagues of mine who I've worked with in the past, and they're really, really great, great colleagues and friends. Teresa Ambrose manages the Diabetes and Health Behavior Unit at the Minnesota Department of Health, and she guides efforts to prevent diabetes and improve lives of all the people that are involved with diabetes, whether you're a caregiver or an actual person.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So, you know, our illustrious crew put together some great research here. And I think maybe just to save a little time here, it might be useful for our listening audience to hear some of the symptoms of childhood diabetes. So you see things like increased thirst, frequent urination, increased hunger, fatigue, blurry vision, where they might be complaining about that.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
And also can even lead to depression. frequent infections. Risk factors, we've kind of talked about a little bit here. Inactivity, diet, obviously. Family history, which I think we should maybe touch on a little bit. Race and ethnicity, which I really want to dive into deeper here. So let's talk about family history, first of all.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So genetics, I guess, is maybe a way of putting it for our listening audience. Higher risk just because you're perhaps genetically predisposed?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Okay. All right. So let's dive into some of these race and ethnicity issues. Unfortunately, and Clarence and I have had many chats with, you know, on a variety of chronic conditions. And it really is unfortunate that we see that, again, diabetes in this case, we see higher prevalence in, for instance, the African American population or American Indian population.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Seems like just about any disease that disease, these, these communities are, are at higher risk. But for today, let's talk about diabetes and specifically the, the populations that it's really hitting hard.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Her career is focused on well-being and the prevention of chronic disease in health systems, schools, early child care, work sites, community settings, etc. She's a registered dietitian. We've had Teresa on the show previously talking about nutrition, and I encourage you to listen to that show as well. So thank you, Teresa, for being with us today. Also, Julie Dalton.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Do we deal with, like for the Department of Health, do they deal with food desert?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
who I also had the pleasure of working with. She always has a great smile when she does all of her work. And she's the diabetes prevention planner at the Minnesota Department of Health in the Health Promotion and Chronic Disease Division.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Currently, she oversees strategies to implement and spread and sustain evidence-based family-centered childhood obesity interventions as it relates to diabetes and has quite a long history over 15 years of public health practice and experience. These are really experts in the field, and I'm sure that you, the listening audience, will enjoy hearing from them. So thank you, Teresa and Julie.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So I've got a couple of things that seem to be happening out there right now. I'm calling them the false sense of security. So let's talk about Ozempic, for instance. Okay, you can lose weight by just taking a medication. So I just wonder, in these community conversations, it's just like, okay, I'm overweight or I'm obese. take the pill, take an injection. Thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So these false sense of security, how are we addressing that going forward from a prevention standpoint?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Thank you for being with us today. So let's start this whole thing out by focusing on, first of all, when you say diabetes, it's one thing. When you say childhood, diabetes. What are we really referring to? How do you define that age category of childhood?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
as well it's like um you know there are certain communities there are certain races that have higher risk of many chronic diseases how is it and maybe this is part of this community conversation type of thing how is it that we really get communities of people it's one thing just to talk about it it's another thing for them to own the issue own the risk own the problem.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So certainly getting the conversations going as a start, but then how is it that we get them to own the problem?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So Julie, you know, I, You know, I know just because I've worked with you, you know, many, many years. I know that we've been involved in this prevention arena for a long, long time. Diabetes, one arena, cardiovascular health and disease, another. So how do you know, have you gotten a sense of how you know whether you're making a difference?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Are we seeing changes or, you know, and this gets into this whole thing of measuring, you know, whether or not we're getting anywhere with this, which, you know, I know CDC really likes.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
on the other hand there's part of me as you know as a health professional that that basically says you know what sometimes you just know it's the right thing to do and let's just keep going at it you know don't worry about the measurement you know we know that these are good things to do and hopefully this these things combined with many other hopefully positive things will have an impact regardless what's your sense of measuring is there a way to measure this
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
You know, I agree with that. You know, the positive measurement maybe will come from just anecdotal reactions where people will say, geez, you know, it's because of you that, you know, I personally changed my lifestyle. And you know what? That's great. You know, that's like a 100% increase, you know, as far as I'm concerned.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
I remember it took, God, 25 years or so to get to convince people to put kids in child restraint seats and to wear seat belts, for God's sakes. I mean, these are things that take time. I'd be remiss to not bring this up. What effect do you think COVID had on addressing and being successful, hopefully, in getting information out to the public about diabetes?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Because to be honest with you, maybe I'm wrong, but when COVID was here, still is, but not like it was a few years ago, That was heavy on everybody's minds. That was it. But on the other hand, we had other issues to deal with. People still had diabetes or were at risk of. So how did you deal with it during the COVID pandemic?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Yeah, things happen like this. You know, and believe it or not, you know, for listening, we'll have another pandemic somewhere down the road. And hopefully there'll be lessons learned from it. Julie, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
You know, the other community conversation that I was thinking of, and I was wondering if there's been some thought about it, is how is it that we can coalesce healthcare professionals around good messaging? And so, you know, I can imagine having a conversation with some physicians, some public health people, some community health workers, some nurses who
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
et cetera, in a room and say, okay, we are hopefully the trusted professionals that can provide useful information. How is it that we can all be on the same page when we do this so that we have a common denominator of knowledge that we can share with these communities out there so that they know that they're getting some good, useful information.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Has there ever been that kind of discussion about getting a grouping of healthcare professionals together?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
I could see a group get together on just, um, health messaging, you know, because, you know, many of these things overlap, you know, with like cardiovascular disease or even cancer. Um, I think it would be a very, very useful enterprise to do that.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Well, I know that there's a lot of complicated aspects to prevention, certainly of this particular chronic disease, diabetes, and it certainly overlaps with many of the others. I really applaud your efforts. I know that this is not an easy game to play, especially dealing with a variety of different communities that need our help.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
But the public should know that your state health departments really work at trying to come up with some good creative ideas and work with you out there. So Teresa and Julie, thank you so much. I think as in other shows, we reserve the right to call you back or for that matter, for you circling back with us and say, hey, we have something really exciting to tell you and your audience.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
And all you have to do is contact Health Chatter and off we go. So thank you for your expertise. It's really good. Last comments. Clarence, you're on mute.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
Thank you to you. Thanks for our listening audience. And everybody, keep health chatting away. Thank you.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
We have great guests with us today that can really shine some insight into the whole concept of childhood diabetes. Stay tuned for that. We've got a great crew that always makes our podcasts successful. They include Maddie, Levine, Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sharon Nygaard, who do our background research for all of our shows.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So let me ask you something. When we talk about childhood, can you have diabetes at birth?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
See, I don't, you know, again, you know, I don't know whether or not, you know, as we define this category of childhood, we're talking about birth onward, or are we talking about 9, 10 onward? What's the parameter for childhood?
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
And by the way, for our listening audience, all the research that we have for our shows is made available on our website. Sheridan Nygaard also does marketing for us. And then, of course, we have Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager and gets all the shows out to you, the listening audience, with nice music attached on the front and back, etc.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
You know, when we talk about all of these, the chronic diseases that we, that we have on, on health chatter, we usually focus on three components, prevention, acute treatment, and then disease management. So I know that the Department of Health really focuses on prevention, and we'll get into that a little bit more in a second here. Clarence, you had a comment.
Health Chatter
Childhood Diabetes
So look forward to hearing this show next week. You'll hear it In about a week. In addition, Clarence Jones is my colleague who helps co-host this show. He's a great, great colleague, provides community input and perspective on this. And also today we have Dr. Barry Baines, who's our clinical director. advisor that'll provide some insight from the medical point of view as well.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Or on the other hand, don't we care about the measurement just so as long as we have some kind of law in effect that people know will decrease stigma?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
With that, Clarence, I'm going to turn the mic over to you and you can introduce our great guests for today's show.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
So, all right. Let's talk about the law. So, you know, from a personal perspective, you know, Pearl, can you start talking about the implications that a law like this has from your perspective? And then, Eddie, maybe you can get into the actual logistics of the law itself.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Absolutely. So. All right. So help help me distinguish the the Steve. Rumler Hope legislation, which is really a form of a Good Samaritan law, I think. And if indeed it is, how does it differ in and of itself from the regular, the other Good Samaritan laws that are in effect?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's episode, a very interesting episode on harm reduction and the Steve Rumler Hope legislation. We've got three wonderful, wonderful guests with us. We'll get to those three in just a minute. I want to thank our illustrious crew. who makes our Health Charter broadcast successful.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
So here's a question I have. And Eddie, I alluded to this before we got on the show, is, okay, so this law is in effect in... Minnesota. First, are there other states that have it in effect? And what do people do when they cross a border? Okay, so like, let's say somebody goes from Minnesota, where there is a law into, let's just say, Wisconsin, for instance, that might not have a law.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
So what what happens then? And if that indeed is a problem, then why aren't we facing just overall federal legislation in this arena?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
You know, as I've listened to the discussion here, what's really struck me is how is it that we can all be more sensitive to the needs of individuals across a variety of different medical, public health issues? And this certainly... is is one of them you know ronda you mentioned somebody who might be diabetic and you know people are afraid to help them out or somebody's having a um
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
an apparent heart attack, and somebody is reluctant, for instance, to give CPR. All these ideas are together on how it is that we can help one another and hopefully save lives, intervene with people to truly help them. So I'll give each of you, Eddie, a quick second or two here to final thoughts.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Yeah, Eddie, I agree with you. There's definitely a difference between sympathizing for an issue and empathizing, which you have related to here. Rhonda, thoughts?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
And dignity and dignity. Pearl, last thoughts.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
You know, I will tell you this, that My sense as just a public health professional is this. I feel as though I need to give you all a hug for doing this work because it seems so important. And I really appreciate your efforts in trying to get the message out to the public. So thank you, Eddie, Rhonda, Pearl, for being part of our show today.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
To all of you in the listening audience, keep health chatting away. Our next show will be on artificial intelligence. Bye for now.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard do all our great research and help us with recording these shows. Then we have Matthew Campbell, who's our production guru, who makes sure everything comes out to you, the listening audience, in perfect form. Then, of course, I have to really, really thank my great co-host, Clarence Jones. having a good time doing this.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Eddie, one of the things that you've mentioned in the course of the conversation so far is paraphernalia and residue. Okay. So could you clarify for the audience exactly what you mean by paraphernalia, what you mean by residue?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
And it's our over, I think it's our 72nd show. So we're looking forward to it as well. Finally, Human Partnership is our community sponsor. They are involved in a variety of different health-related issues events and programs in the community. And we recommend highly to check out their website at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
So let me let me ask this question is is, you know, with this legislation and Rhonda, I'll let you kind of lead the discussion around the the actual legislation a little bit here. But how do you know I'm kind of dealing with the question at the end here, but how do you know if a law like this. is really going to make a difference?
Health Chatter
2023 Decriminalization of Paraphernalia and Residue
Is there a measurement, you know, for those of us in public health, we always like to measure things to make sure that, you know, we're making a difference one way or the other. Is there a way that we're going to be doing that? And if so, who is responsible for that measurement?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So take a moment, leave us a review on your preferred podcast platform, whatever it may be. So thanks to all. And here we go. So today, caregiver burnout. We've got two great guests with us. Terry Haverath. Dr. Terry Haverath is a clinical professor at the University of Minnesota. Soon, soon, she's informed us that she's retiring. So to a certain extent, that's a loss.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's topic is caregiving, but more specifically, caregiver burnout, which is really, unfortunately, kind of a hot topic as it relates to caregiving in general. We've got two great guests with us. We'll get to them in a second.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
But on the other hand, congratulations, and we wish you only the best. She's internationally recognized expert in gerontological nursing practice and education currently. Currently, and I'll put that in quotes. Okay, currently. Currently. is the Associate Director of the Clinical Science and Practice Core for the Center for Healthy Aging and Innovation at the University of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So it's really the prevention of it. How is it that, that professional care, you know, I've kind of made this distinction. I don't know if it's appropriate or not, but this professional caregiving, how is it that we can prevent burnout and then family caregiving? How can we prevent burnout? So Terry, why don't you address that from your perspective?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Prior to that, she was the founding director for the Family Caregiving Institute at UC Davis out in California. So thank you for being with us. She's got a great passion for dealing with the frail and older people and family caregivers. And I can just tell this is going to be, we're going to get great words of wisdom from you. So thank you for being with us. Lisa Brown is also with us.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Those are all good thoughts. We could do a bunch of shows on this. One of the things that you've kind of alluded to is cost. So I wonder, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I wonder whether or not we're seeing more family-oriented caregiving in the subsequent burnout because of the costs, just the costs. Respond to that, I guess. Is that true, I guess?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Lisa's got her bachelor's degree in social work and a master's in social work from the University of Minnesota at Duluth. for the past two decades. That's a long time, actually. She has focused her career around older adults and their caregivers, working to keep people engaged in their community and trying to remain as independent as possible. And she has worked at Long Blonstead is in St.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Yep. Right, right, right, right. So I remember that. And she works there now. And thank you so much for both of you. I'm really looking forward to the insights that you provide us on caregiving and caregiving burnout. So, all right. This is what's really struck me. And all of us have been in the health care field a long, long time. And are we seeing the need for caregiving increase?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
You know, it's one of the things that's really struck me in this conversation or this chat is lifestyle change. And in many cases, it's the immediacy of the lifestyle change. Somebody is diagnosed with Alzheimer's and all of a sudden it kind of puts everybody in a kind of a tizzy on, what to do, how to do it.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
You know, it's one thing on the patient side, it's another thing on the caregiver side, whether it be a family member or a professional. So lifestyle change is really big, I think. One thing I wanted, I thought I would tell just a little sidebar story here. A very dear colleague of mine, and actually he was my
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
my doctoral advisor came down with, and this was years ago, came down with early onset Alzheimer's. And he was a young man. And I remember distinctly going over to his house and his wife was helping to basically feed him. And She, on all the cabinets in the kitchen, they were labeled. They were labeled, and some were locked.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
And I remember leaving the house with her, and she just cried in my arms, just cried. And she said, you don't understand, and I didn't. I couldn't empathize. I could sympathize.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
with um just what i was seeing and what she was what she was going through the takeaway for our listening audience is be aware of that for people that you know and be around to provide support check in every once in a while hey can i come over and help with something because i really do think that that's important the other thing i thought i'd bring up and maybe you guys can respond to is um
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
And if that's the case, what might it be from? Is it people are living longer? Is it they have more complicated diseases? Am I right in assuming that we're seeing more of that? And if so, why? Go ahead, Terry, take it away.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Long distance coordination. So, all right. So let's just say, for instance, you know, a father is really sick. And one of them happens, one of the kids is here. The other one is in some other place in the United States. How do you kind of coordinate so that you decrease burden and you decrease stress. Yeah. Do you, do you face that or have you faced that Lisa or Terry? Have you seen that?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Yeah. It's easy to it's easy to kind of think that way. But like you said, unless you're in the trenches, don't tell me. Lisa, you had a comment.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So, you know, one thing I, I tell just the patients, I see these orthopedic patients is, you know, oftentimes they're given a nurse triage number to call and, if you have a question and I tell them just call. Don't wait until you have 10 questions because I said the reason why is that when you hang up after getting the answer for that one call, you'll feel better.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So for caregivers, I recommend the same thing. Don't wait until your stressful question list is, you know, you have 100 questions. Call anytime you have a question. It's better because you'll feel better when you hang up. Last thoughts. Lisa.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
I'd like to thank our crew, Clarence and my crew, to help us get these shows out to you, the listening audience, Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, and DeAndre Howard are our researchers that do great background research for all of our shows. Our production managers, Matthew Broderick, Campbell, who gets these shows out to you in beautiful format to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
What's your thought about this, Lisa? I mean, you're like in the field working with these people. Have you seen this as well, that there seems to be more caregiving being provided?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
That's the key is knowing that there's resource help and hopefully support help from people that care about you as well. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
It's a tough subject. It really is because I see many people kind of thrust into it. And it's just like, oh my God, I've got to go take care of a loved one. Excuse me, I have a job. What the heck am I going to do here? So, I mean, there's a lot of balancing that needs to be done. But know this, that people are successful in doing it.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
get through it and um and hopefully that'll be a great takeaway for our health chatter listening audience thank you both to terry and and to to lisa don't forget dr barry though and well of course dr barry dr barry do you have a last comment word here is this was outstanding and yeah thank you so much this was fabulous you know it's um
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
it's just nice chatting about it you know about a subject that is important so thank you both to terry and to lisa this show will go out to you the listening audience this week so look out for it we have great shows coming up our next show is going to be on arthritis and rheumatology which is also you know all of us are getting a little stiffer as we as we get older so uh
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Look forward to that as well. So to you, the listening audience, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So let me throw this out. This is something else that kind of struck me when I was reading through some of this background. The difference between a professional caregiver.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
And I'll just, for lack of a better title, a family caregiver. Like if all of a sudden somebody has, God forbid, you know, put in some kind of a chronic disease that they have to deal with, then all of a sudden there's almost an immediate burden that's put on some family member. So can you talk a little bit about the distinctions between professional and family caregiving? Go ahead, Lisa.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Our marketing person is Sharon Nygaard, who also helps with our research as well. My co-host for the show is Clarence Jones, who's got much more experience at doing these podcasts than I do. He's been a great, great colleague. And I thank you for all your your great wisdom as it comes to these shows. We also have Dr. Barry Baines with us, who's our medical advisor on the show today.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
You know, it's interesting, you know, listeners, you know, have heard that, you know, I see knee patients after they've come out of knee surgery, because I've had it done myself. And one of the things I tell the patient, and also their significant other who they might, or a friend or whoever might be in the room with them, on staying ahead of the pain. Okay.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So, you know, that's one of the things, you know, how, And it's interesting because patients will say, we've heard that, but how in the hell do you do it? And for somebody then who's gone through it, then you can give them that kind of advice. But otherwise it's kind of like they're lost. And that's just one little caregiving thing when you think about it. I mean, it's just amazing.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So let's talk about burnout now. I mean, we've kind of just touched on caregiving in general and there's a lot of it going on, but let's talk about let's talk about professional burnout first, and then we'll talk maybe about family burnout, because I have a feeling that there's some complimentary aspects.
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
So professional burnout, I'm sure that both of you have either been, witnessed it yourself or know people, your colleagues that have gone through it. So give us your sense of professional burnout and what, what's being done to identify it and help in this case, the professional caregivers. So Lisa, why don't you go first?
Health Chatter
Caregiver Burnout
Human Partnership is our sponsor. They're a community health organization, do wonderful things out in the community, health-related. Recommend you listen to them or visit with them on your website at humanpartnership.org. Check us out at healthchatterpodcast.org. And if you love our shows, truly love our shows, we'd love to hear your feedback.
Health Chatter
Governmental Interest in Mental Health and Well-Being
Go ahead, Clarence. You're on mute. You're on mute.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And, you know, it's interesting, too, when you, you know, the things that have come to our attention, like if you sit at a desk and you're staring at a screen, what implications does it have for your vision? what implications does it have for your, your, your body, whether it be, you know, things like carpal tunnel syndrome for, you know, your wrists or, or what have you.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
These are subtle things, but safety, none, nonetheless. All right, let's move into home safety. This is kind of an interesting one. I think there's, I can really state that I remember growing up as a kid and our doors were unlocked. My friends and I were running in and out of the houses like it was not a problem. And so now when we talk about that, we're really talking about a different level of
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
safety. Yeah. So Clarence, you know, what's your thought on this? I mean, it's like, you know, we've really kind of got to this point where it's kind of like, you know, with burglar alarms and, you know, deadbolt locks and just that aspect of safety. What's your sense?
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And there's also a cost involved with all this. Everybody can afford security systems in their homes or double-bolted locks, just as one side of the home safety issue.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Besides that, even if you do have those in place, then the technology comes into play. It's like, who understands the importance of the home safety burglar alarms, for instance? And then how is it that you monitor it through an app on your phone, where some people are just illiterate when it comes to dealing with that type of thing? And then, you know, there are people that are living alone.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, I read through our background research here, and one of the key things around health and safety centers around OSHA, O-S-H-A-A, which stands for the Occupational Safety Health Administration, which, frankly... didn't start that long ago. It was like in 1970 that it really started. And it was really focused on safety in the workplace.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Correct. Or frankly, we didn't think about it, I guess. It's brought to our attention and that's good too. But there are other things in homes that are important, like fire detectors, carbon monoxide detectors, detectors. To be honest with you, again, when, you know, years ago, these never existed.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And then it becomes important, you know, to keep these detectors that you have installed up to date, you know, changing the batteries and all these types of things. So, again, good, but Another level of safety that obviously was implemented because there were things that happened that we prevented.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah. You know, and, and also there are cultural things, for instance, you know, if you go to Israel and I have, you know, I have relatives in, in Israel and, Each one of their places that they live in has what they call a safe room. So think about, you know, all the, you know, war that's going on there now and previously.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on health and safety. And boy, I'll tell you, after reading our background research, there are a lot of safety issues that, you know, frankly, I had forgotten about. But we'll dive into them today with our crew. We have a wonderful background crew that helps us with all of our shows, Maddy Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
They have an actual safe room that's really highly protected from invasions, etc. So again, safety, but due to circumstantial issues that I think we have to take into consideration as well. Sheridan, you brought up the issue, or not the issue, but I guess the reason to be concerned if you have younger people in a home versus elderly. Okay, so for instance, again, I don't remember, maybe,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Clarence, maybe you do, but I don't remember, certainly when I was growing up, if we would put protectors in an electrical outlet.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah, and you know, it's like, so for instance, in my generation, we didn't have, I don't think we even had them, these little electrical protectors where you put them in electrical outlets. But then, you know, when my wife and I had children, yes, we did. And going forward, you know, grandchildren. Yes, they have them. And so it's kind of like almost like a generational shift in safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And if you just kind of broaden your perspective about work in general and think about where all the people in the United States work, all these different different places, there are safety concerns that, that need to be addressed and hopefully, um, in a way that can prevent harm. And so for instance, in, um, historically, you know, we were dealing with mines and mind, mind safety, M I N E safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, it's it's it's interesting, too. It's like and Barry, I'm sure you're you're you're aware of this. It's like when you like like when I go in for like a physical, you know, my physician will ask me or even, you know, one of the nurses, do you feel safe at home? And, you know, in that sense, the way that question is asked, you know, it's the word safe you have to almost put in quotations.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Well, what do you mean? Do you have, you know, do I feel safe because, you know, I'm not in, there's no abuse going on in the house? Or do I feel safe because there's grab bars in the showers? Or do I feel safe because there's no lead-based paint in the house? Do I feel safe, you know, all these things that, reflect on the word safe.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
But yet, it's important for all of us to keep them in mind, for sure. So I, some things that you don't necessarily think of, but it's important. Like, you know, when when you when you get like plastic bags, you put your fruit in, you know, at the grocery store in a plastic bags. There's always, you always see these little subtle warnings, you know, keep these plastic bags away from children, okay?
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Or small objects, keep them away from children. It can be a potential choking hazard. These types of things, even just these statements,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
kind of raise our level of consciousness about safety overall you know um you know barry you you mentioned here about you know firearm safety and car safety so how let's start with firearm safety because that that seems to be more at least at this stage connected with with the home what's your thoughts on that one yeah well you know basically we uh you know to not get into uh
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
There was, um, you know, things around equipment. There was also farming where we had a lot of farming accidents and alike. And as we get more sophisticated with our technology, there are aspects of work that we really have to address from a safety perspective. So thoughts on that, Barry?
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, I grew up with squirt guns, water squirt guns. And there was a morph, I guess, in thinking that... And by the way, we never thought anything about it. We thought it was just fun. But... Going forward, there was like a change of attitude where in some families, they don't allow any kind of toy guns at all. And so it's like, you know,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
thinking has kind of gone forward in line with what's going on in the true dangerous aspects of firearm safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Right. And then, you know, then it always brings up the, you know, the point of what's overkill, you know, no pun intended there, but you know what I mean? What's overkill? It's like, okay, should a kid not be able to play with a Nerf gun under proper supervision. Okay, so those are where the kind of the angst come into play. But there are certainly things that have changed.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
over the years as, as it relates to safety and its relationship to firearm safety. So let's talk about other things like, you know, like grab bars. Like I'll, I'll, I'll be the first to admit in my home, we don't have grab bars in the, in our, in our showers. Okay. And it's like, wow. You know, it's like I go in and I take a shower. It's kind of like, OK, I'm OK.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, it's not that I don't even think about it, but I should. I really should. And, you know, and at what point do you do something? Well, do you wait until, you know, God forbid somebody falls or has an accident or whatever, and then you do it? The answer is no, you shouldn't do that. You should be more proactive. So that's a message to everybody. Be more proactive.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk about car safety. All right. So again, you know, remember the day when there were no seatbelts in cars. Okay. There are no childish strength. There are, there were no sophisticated safety components in cars. Okay. So I'm going to put a plug in right now. So I, I got about six months ago, I took the senior driver's ed class. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And yes, you know, my first thought is, Oh God, you know, it's like, What don't I know already? Well, it's really interesting because they go over all these new safety features on cars that you really should take advantage of. in order for you to be safer when you are driving.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And so I recommend to anybody who's at that age to go ahead, take these courses, because it'll be kind of an aha moment for you on things that'll help for you to be safer when you drive. Also seat belts, it took, oh my goodness. First of all, it took us, a long time to get seatbelts legislated. And what came before seatbelts was child restraint seats.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And then it led into safety, you know, seatbelt laws around the country. So anyway, all right, thoughts on all of that, car safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
So, you know, it's interesting. You bring up bicycles. You know, again, you know, years ago, the concept of a bicycle helmet, we didn't do it. But now it's important. Or how about this one? When you go into an airplane, you are required to buckle up.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Okay, everybody's got to actually buckle up, even though control of the situation is totally out of your control, but you are required by law to buckle up. So bikes, airplanes, you know, we see it everywhere. So, you know, my closing comment for me, and I'll go around the horn here, but my is be smart as it relates to safety.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Be smart, no matter what environment you're in, whether it's in your work environment, your home environment, or your environment in general. Be smart and start thinking about being proactive on what things you should be doing safety-wise that perhaps you don't have in place. Start thinking about those. Clarence, what's your closing thoughts?
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Absolutely. Aaron, I see you're on the show. And she's eating a banana. And that's good. You know, that's good for your health. So nice to see you. So, all right. Thank you to everybody. You know, I guess, you know, maybe a final statement here is take it up a notch as far as safety. You know, across the board, be cognizant of it and act on it.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And by just merely doing that, if we all do that, we'll save a lot of injuries and save a lot of deaths. So thank you to all. And in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah, you know, our research, and we'll talk about hopefully at least a little bit on all of these areas, occupational, home safety, auto and road safety, and firearm safety. I mean, that's just perhaps just touching the surface. Clarence, your thoughts just to get us going here.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, and Sheridan Nygaard all do wonderful research. They do our recordings as well and also get those shows out to you, the listening audience. So thank you to you guys. It's really a pleasure working with you. In addition, Dr. Barry Baines is with us today. He's our medical advisor that provides some medical insight and perspective.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Absolutely. And, and You almost have to be totally out of it not to see potential dangers that are around you. In the Twin City metropolitan area, those of us who live here, if you go from A to B in your car, navigating road construction, and when you just pass by what's going on,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You can't help but think, oh, my God, these people that are working on these road construction improvements, it can be really, really dangerous. And so, you know, you have to reduce your speed and not everybody does it, at least appropriately. So, you know, when we're dealing nationally with infrastructure issues,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
improvements, whether it be roads, bridges, et cetera, we are faced with potential dangerous situations, safety issues, and certainly I'm sure that OSHA is on top of it.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Yeah. So, you know, just absolutely. So to give you an idea, if we're looking at it from an occupational standpoint, OSHA is the big four that they deal with are falls. So you can imagine, just, just think about this. People are building these skyscrapers, you know, and they're, and they're, you know, the top floor is in heaven.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
And can you imagine, you know, any falls from one floor to the next or major or major falls? So that's, that's, an important area. Struck by an object is another one. Again, scaffolding, et cetera, can be quite dangerous. Electrocutions is the third area. And then one that I thought was interesting is caught in or caught between. Employees caught in or between machines, devices, tools,
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
these types of things where they get actually caught in them and dragged into these machines and get seriously injured or even killed. Those are the four major areas that OSHA continues to deal with. And I'm sure it's becoming more and more complicated with our level of sophistication of the things that we do. Yeah, go ahead, Barry.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
So thanks, Barry, for being on the show today. And of course, there's Clarence. Clarence Jones and I co-host the show together. And we're finding that a lot of the shows are very, very interesting. And we are learning a lot together. So Clarence, as always, thank you. Human Partnerships. is our sponsor for these shows. Great community health organization.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, when you think about it, you know, falls in the home and what, what, do we do to prevent them? And when do we think about preventing them? In other words, rugs that you have on the floors around your home, at what point do you become cognizant of the danger that rugs can pose? Or grab bars in showers. At what point do you put them in?
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
You know, and also like in the workplace, there's there's really subtle types of things that I remember at the at the Department of Health. We had employees that did ergonomic assessments. Or when you're working. So when you're seated at a desk, for instance, is the desk at the right height? Is your computer screen placed properly?
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Those types of subtle things can really have an impact on a person's health. And then also, the work environment, the work that's trying to be done, if indeed it's compromised by people being unhealthy, there are major economic effects as well.
Health Chatter
Health & Safety
Check them out at humanpartnership.org and check us out, Health Chatter out at healthchatterpodcast.com. All the research, And all the questions that you might have or reviews are all on our website. And you can also read up about all of us who do the show. So thanks again to everybody. So health and safety.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Yeah, Poy, you really hit the nail on the head. You know, the problem is how we go forward. In previous, in actually quite a few of our shows, we've had a focus or we've asked our guests questions related to prevention, acute treatment, and disease management. Obviously, Miguel, you're saying that that 20%, that 20%,
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
the healthcare professionals are helping with are basically in the acute treatment and disease management end. And prevention is a hard one. It really is. It's one thing to know what you want to prevent. It's another on exactly how it is that we can go about doing it and maintain it over time. It's not like a one-shot type of thing. Go ahead, Barry.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Our shows are transcribed so you can read them or listen to them at your pleasure. And also feel free to provide feedback feedback about our shows on our website. If you have questions, put them on the website. Clarence and I will get back to you as best as we possibly can. So thanks to you, the listening audience as well.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Today, health disparities, which is actually, to me, it's like, okay, what's new? But we'll get to that in a minute for sure. We have a wonderful guest with us, Dr. Miguel Ruiz. is an internal medicine and palliative care specialist, has been in the state of Minnesota for 25 years. Nice chunk of time. After working as an internist at one of our community health clinics,
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on health disparities and we have Dr. Miguel Ruiz with us. We'll talk to him in just a second and introduce him. We have a great crew, as if any of you in our listening audience have heard some of our great shows. We always like to recognize our staff. Today we have Sheridan Nygaard is doing our recording for us. Thank you, Sheridan.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
He now practices at Regions Hospitals where he works as hospice medicine physician and a palliative care specialist, assistant professor in the Department of Medicine at the University of Minnesota. And he is currently a co-sponsor of the Regions Health Equity Committee and has a special, special interest in the subject that we're talking about today today. So many, many thanks for being with us.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
This is a complicated subject. And I know that you have some great insights. So thank you for being with us, Miguel. I really appreciate it. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
So Miguel, I've got a couple of thoughts and then Sheridan, I'll get to you just in a sec. Are we dealing today with more of diseases of our time? In other words, if you think about around COVID, the early 1900s, we were dealing with a lot of infectious diseases, okay? So today, okay, where at least hopefully people get properly vaccinated, which is a whole other subject.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
But today we're dealing with, frankly, more complicated disease entities, the synergistic effect, you know, a combination of a variety of multiple variables that affect people. a particular disease. So do you think this synergistic effect is having an effect on addressing disparities? In other words, diseases are a little bit more complicated.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
You know, heart disease, you know, it's like, what's the cause of heart disease? Well, I could, you know, I could give you a laundry list of things that cause that. So that's question one. Dealing with diseases of our time. And then the other thing as it relates to disparities is this, the distinction between necessary care and elective care.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
So for instance, necessary surgery versus elective surgery. And are we seeing disparities there? there as well. So diseases of our time and necessary in elective care.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Here we go. All right, so Clarence and I, and actually all four of us, we've been in the healthcare field a long time. You know, what really is striking to me is, have we had disparities? And if so, why is there so much attention to them now? Or we're hearing about them, at least for sure I am, hearing about them much more today than we did, say, 15, 20 years ago.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
You know, one of the things that I've gotten from your insights is we can learn from one another and we need to really take the opportunity to listen carefully, hold hands together to make a difference. And if we all have that kind of mindset I think, for instance, the goals for Healthy People 2030, we can start getting there.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
And even then we had them, we had disparities. So what's driving this discussion now?
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
It's just the recognition, first and foremost, that we have the problems. Let's listen to one another and try to make differences and come up with ideas, creative ideas together. I think it's really good. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Miguel, I'm going to say this. This subject is huge. And I know that you are embedded in it professionally. So please, if indeed in the course of your work going forward, you come up with some aha moments where you you think, God, this would be really good information to share on health chatter so that we can get this information or these ideas out more broadly. Absolutely.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Feel free to contact us and we'll get you back on the show and we can talk about that. We reserve the right to call you back. Okay. And we say, hey, we need another shot of adrenaline from Miguel about this whole subject of disparities. And so many, many thanks. Your insights are golden. They really, really are. For our listening audience, we've got some great, great new shows coming up.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Watch for us and listen to us. Read about us. and continue to health shadowing.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Sheridan also does background research for us and in our marketing. Maddie Levine-Wolfe. Aaron Collins and Deandra Howard also do some good background research for Clarence and I. So we sound kind of smart when we're talking with our illustrious guests. And also Matthew Campbell is our production manager. He makes sure that these shows get out to you, the listening audience, in really crisp form.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
So thank you to all of you. Dr. Barry Bain is our medical advisor. Barry, thank you. Clarence Jones is my co-host for this show. Having a lot of fun. We catch up with one another often, actually, over a good cup of coffee to make sure that we're all in sync. And we're still having fun and a good time doing these shows. And when it stops being fun, we stop doing Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
Yeah. So, Miguel, you brought up the, you know, actually, you brought up a point that I was thinking, you know, why is it that it's come to the forefront? And you eloquently stated the idea that we have better ways to measure. And that's good. And so... I think we're at this point, we're kind of at this inflection point, it seems to me that, okay, we've had them, we're able to analyze them.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
And then the next question is, what the heck do we do about it? And the next question is, how do we know if we're making a difference? How do we know if we're getting to where we wanna be? So just a reflection on all of that from your perspective.
Health Chatter
Health Disparities
But so far, it's been a real pleasurable ride. So thank you to everybody. Thanks to our sponsor, which is Human Partnerships. great community health organization. Check them out at human, H-U-E-M-A-N, partnership.org. And also check us out on our website. We put up all our background research for our shows so you can read them.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
I've got a question here. So, all right. So I'm going to just play this out a little bit. So, you know, Clarence is my good buddy here. I'm sitting next to him. We're in a barbecue restaurant. Okay. So, and I'm enjoying myself saying, yeah. Okay. Right. So here's, here's the deal. If, if Clarence goes ahead and gets, you know, you know, a rack of ribs and,
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
and I go ahead and get a rack of ribs in a barbecue restaurant, is what you're saying that just by the mere fact that Clarence, let's just play this out a little bit, likes a lot, eats a lot of barbecue, and the fact that he's African-American, and then there's Stan that's sitting next to him that I like barbecue, I don't eat a lot of it, and I'm white. He's just inherently based on...
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
what you're hypothesizing at least at higher risk. Is that what you're, you're, you're, you're kind of getting at here?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's episode is on prostate cancer and some of the community implications, public health implications, and messaging. And we'll get all into that in a second. We've got a great crew, as always, that keeps us, keeps both Clarence and I hopping with good information. Maddie Levine-Wolfe,
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And also amount, right? Amount of, okay. So, you know, it's like I, you know, you know, most docs will tell you, for instance, ice cream isn't great for you because it's, you know, it's got a lot of cholesterol in it. But, you know, I also say that once in a while, it's okay to have an ice cream cone. It's good for your mental health. So, you know, it's like amount of,
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
how is that in the research that you do, how do you figure out amount to indicate risk?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Yeah. So Clarence, all right, so you have your colleagues and friends in your community. So I'm just curious. OK, so Rob says, God, it'd be great if we could get an African-American cohort here. So all right. you go ahead and you talk to your friends or your colleagues to see if they'd be interested in a study like this.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
I'm just curious, when you try to get people, okay, for a study like this, what was the response that you get from an individual? I mean, it's like... They were excited, man.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Interesting. Okay. So they were... The way in which we... They were excited in the sense of what? Go ahead, either one of you.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
So let's talk about this from a public health, overall public health perspective, which you've obviously touched on here. I assume that underlying the work that you do is prevention. How is it that we truly can prevent? And also, I guess treatment, you might say that eating less charred meat or really, really well cooked meat is a form of treating yourself in the prevention aspect of it all.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
All right. we're working with a community, you're working with the African American community, and when all is said and done, when your research is done and you get a gazillion million for your research through grants, et cetera. Yeah, right, yeah. Then the question is, how is it that you translate your research into good public health usage?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, down the road, you know, we've done shows on Health Chatter that involve state, for instance, health plans around various chronic diseases. One of those is the cancer plan, where within it are objectives and programmatic initiatives for, in this case, the state of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Then on a much broader scale, there's Healthy People 2030, right now, the Objectives for the Nation. And for researchers like you, there could be strong implications for new updated objectives in the cancer arena for Objectives for the Nation, and also dietary guidelines going forward. So there are really some really good, strong implications here.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Yeah, I can't. I agree with you a lot on that one. I mean, you know, I wish we could clone Clarence in many ways for all the different types, all the different populations that we have, because it really helps. It really, really helps in the long run. So, Dr. Teresky, thank you. I I applaud your efforts. I look forward to hearing more.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
And to be honest with you, we reserve the right to get back to you or you back to us as soon as you have something exciting to say. We'll have you on Health Chatter again, for sure. So thank you. It's been a pleasure. So for our listening audience, our next show we're going to have is on cardiac rehab.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
rehabilitation, which should be very interesting, especially for those we're seeing, unfortunately, incidences where people are not taking advantage of cardiac rehab after having events. So we'll be talking about that on our next show. So in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting awake.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Well, I'll tell you, Clarence, you and I have something in common. You with barbecue food and me with a good pastrami sandwich. So I guess we all have our vices, right?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
So let me ask you something. You know, as a young man many, many years ago, you don't worry about these things, so you don't think about them. But let me ask you, has prostate cancer increased over, you know, like, I don't know, the last 10, 15 years, for instance, that you might be aware of?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do our background research for us. Sheridan Nygaard also does research for us, but also our marketing. And then of course, there's Matthew Campbell, who's probably busy right now getting one of our shows out to you, the listening audience. So thanks to all of them. They're a great crew and we appreciate all their hard work. My partner in crime,
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
You know, I once heard, and then Clarence, you can get into all the community programmatic components here, but I once heard that, or have heard quite often actually, that prostate cancer seems to be more self-contained than other cancers, you know, just by virtue of maybe the size of the organ or the ease, the relative ease of removing it if need be.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
But have you come across any of that kind of information in your background or your literature?
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
But either one, yeah, it's more self-contained. And, you know, I've heard people, I've heard some, you know, gentlemen, you know, physicians say, don't worry about, you know, an enlarged prostate or whatever, or your cancer prostate, because chances are, you know, it's more self-contained and you'll probably land up, you know, dying or getting something more severe down the road.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
As always is Clarence Jones. And we're having a good time doing these shows, chatting about a lot of different issues around health and healthcare. And hopefully it's useful for you, the listening audience. Our sponsor for these shows is Human Partnership, a good community health organization that provides a lot of programs out in the community for all of us.
Health Chatter
Prostate Cancer
You can check them out at humanpartnership.org. In addition, you can see our website as well. Visit our website to see our shows. And also, all the background research that we provide to these shows is on our website at healthchatterpodcast.com. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Clarence, and he can introduce our great guest for today.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
In addition, Human Partnership is our sponsor for all the Health Shatter shows. They are a great community health organization. We highly recommend that you check them out. They do a lot of creative things out there. And you can check them out at humanpartnership.org, as well as our website, where we put all our research notes, as well as transcripts for the shows at healthshatterpodcast.com.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So where do these, just for instance, where do hospice volunteers get trained? I mean, I kind of perceive it as a neighbor. Could be a neighbor that comes in and just spends time with you, but they aren't necessarily trained.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So thank you to everybody. So let's move on. Hospice today. We have Dr. Barry Baines with us, who's been with us on a couple of previous shows on Health Shatter. And he talked about And by the way, I recommend you listen to these shows on ethical wills and legacy letters and serious illnesses and how to talk to your physician about serious illness. Barry has recently retired. He's joined the crew.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So let me ask you, you know, you mentioned the link between hospice care and Medicare. Okay. Where Medicare will cover hospice care. All right. Is it typical for health plans or insurance companies to cover hospice hospice or not? And if not, what do people do or what can they do if a person that they know is coming to the end of their life?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode, we're going to be talking about hospice care, which is an interesting subject that's gotten a lot of attention lately. We've got a great guest and you will recognize him as soon as I introduce him in a moment. We have great, great crew that I always like to Thank, and that includes Sheridan Nygaard, who's recording for us today.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
And he's a family physician and hospice palliative medicine specialist in his practice program. He does education at the University of Wisconsin at Madison and Georgetown University and has co-authored a few books and publications. He has 25 years of experience as a hospice medical director and is board certified in family medicine.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
You know, it's, it's interesting for, if you ever, what I have noticed at least is whenever you read an obituary after somebody has passed, oftentimes I will read A really special thank you goes to the hospice team that cared for the individual. So people really connect with, or at least it seems as though they connect with the hospice providers of care.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So here's another thing, kind of sidebar thing. help or assistance. So you mentioned, you know, like a spiritual leader, we had one of our shows was on spirituality and health. And so Help me. I assume, you know, besides pets may be helping out, but maybe, you know, a pastor or some clergy or rabbi connects somehow or other with hospice care providers. Is that?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
And do they, are they trained as well? Or are they just- who they are as rabbis or pastors or whatever.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
His book, Ethical Wills, Putting Your Values on Paper, is now in its second edition. And you can check that out. And we recommend you do that. Ethical wills, putting your values on paper. Barry, thanks so much for being with us.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Yeah, it's really, yeah, it's nice. You're a great guest and we appreciate all your, your great insights on a variety of topics actually. So let's get this going a little bit. I know that, you know, we put together some, some of the research, but also, um,
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
You wrote me and said, I'd like to describe the differences between curative care, remissive care, palliative care, of which hospice kind of falls in line with all of it. So maybe you can start us all out by talking about that.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
You know, it's interesting. I was going to say kind of the same thing. It's kind of my perception of this 500%. It's kind of counter to what physicians say. want themselves. They want to be able to cure or better disease manage.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
But as soon as the word, I guess, hospice comes into the conversation, that's counter to what they're trained for because they're trying to keep them alive and healthy and happy as opposed to death and dying here, you know?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So let me, let me ask this question. So it's, I sense that, Barry, you know, when you're dealing with hospice care, you're also dealing with cultural issues. Okay. And, you know, for some people, you know, somebody who's dying is, oh, my God, you know, it's the end of the world. On the other hand, you know, people celebrate. You know, there's some cultures that really celebrate that.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So, Barry, you had mentioned at the front end of the show, palliative care, which in my, the way I kind of perceive that is overall disease management. But let's, you know, for the listening now, let's do this. Somebody's in the hospital, a loved one is in the hospital and they're not doing well and it's end of life is coming. Take us a little bit step by step in order to connect the
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
everybody to hospice okay so like use me i'm in the hospital and i'm dying okay what would what would health care providers do for me and for my family in the hospital to step by step to connect me who connects me to hospice for instance okay well if you're in if you're in the hospital yeah okay um probably it would be either
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
you know it's interesting great questions too you know it's interesting you know uh for our listening audience my my pooch just came in uh and it's sitting next to me here and it's interesting you know i i was thinking how it is that we um we humanely deal with end of life for our pets okay and how much of a of a major, major difference there is between how we as humans deal with that.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
It's much more complicated and harder, but perhaps there's some lessons to be learned from our pets in our lives as well. So Barry, I truly thank you for your insights. This has been a really, really great show. And hopefully our listening audience will appreciate the insights and the information, and hopefully it'll guide their decision-making when they need to going forward.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So for our listening audience, I want to say, as I always do and end our shows, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
And she also does our great marketing and research for shows. We have Maddie Levine-Wolfe, and also Sheridan works with her. And Deandra Howard, she works with them. And Erin Collins, they all do great research in the background. The research, by the way, for everybody gives Clarence and I an idea of what we should be talking about on all these shows. So thank you to all of you.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
You know, it's interesting you bring that up, Clarence, because it's kind of like there are certain words in the medical health arena that kind of make people shudder, okay? It's like if you hear the word cancer, it's like, oh my God, I've got the big C, okay? Or hospice, all of a sudden, okay, that's it, done, right? And it creates kind of an emotional response. But anyway- Go ahead, Barry.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Matthew Campbell is our production guru who puts together all the shows, gets them out to you, the listening audience. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, who's my trusted colleague and co-host for the show. We have a good time doing these shows and enjoy getting them out to you, all of you out there. So thank you to all of you.
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
So Barry, let me ask you, are there also the kind of facilities, I guess, for hospice care that are in And you're relating to what's going on in Minnesota. Are there analogous facilities that you know of in other states as well? Or does every state kind of have their own thing going?
Health Chatter
Hospice Care
Wow. Okay. That's really good to know. So let me ask you this. Talk about hospice professionals. So who are they? Are they physicians? Are they nurses? Are they just home care providers? Who are they? And do you have to be trained a particular way, et cetera?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I really, really don't. So Clarence, thank you. And then finally, Human Partnership is our sponsor for these shows. They provide some really good insights for us. And our community, organization that's really involved with health issues, a great, great community partner. And I recommend that everybody check out their website at humanpartnership.com. With that, let's get the show going.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And we're kind of middle of the road from what you're saying.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Yeah. You know, it's interesting because it's, you know, in many things, you know, Minnesota is... is pretty good health-wise, but this is a consistent thing. We have disparities. We have problems with access to care. And so I'm sure, correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, that that rings true in the mental health arena as well, access and disparities.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
We have Dr. Mike Trango. And as I mentioned, this is our third show on mental health. We probably, and Mike can probably attest to this, we probably could do a bunch more And who knows, we might do that coming up. But we've talked about other aspects, the clinical aspects and the problematic aspects of mental health. And so today we're going to be talking about policy implications.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is the third in our trifecta of shows on mental health, and we're going to be focusing on policy implications, which is an interesting twist when you think about it as it relates to a medical-oriented condition. So we'll have some interesting insights with our illustrious guest, Dr. Mike Trangle, and we'll get into that in a second.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And certainly, based on some of the information that our great staff have provided here, mental health issues more than likely will lead into other health-related issues. So it's like they go hand in hand here. And it's like, all right, what's going on? All right, so here's... Before I get out, you know, for the listening audience, I'll give some of these statistics that we're seeing lately.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I mean, and I'm sure this has even gotten worse during COVID, for instance. But all right, Mike, I really need an opinion from you. If you had a magical wand in your hand right now, where would you focus mental health, policy out of the gate. I mean, based on your professional experience, what would you really like to see really move? Call it a priority from your perspective.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Dr. Trangle has an illustrious career in dealing with mental health. And he keeps a real positive attitude about it. And it's greatly appreciated. He's a distinguished lifetime fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, a media past president of the Minnesota Psychiatric Society.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Exactly. So let me ask you, you know, your dear colleague, Nico Prank was, you know, the co-chair of the, of Healthy People 2030, the objectives for the nation. Okay. So I don't know if you're, you're familiar. I know I'm not off the top of my head, but you know, from the mental health standpoint I'm, I believe they at least touched on this idea of parity.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Okay, but even still, an objective for the nation by 2030, you know, my feeling is can we wait that long? And I really don't think we can. I think we've got to get our acts together and get moving.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
He was on the National Quality Forum Standing Behavioral Health Measurement Committee, participates in a lot of policy-oriented issues around mental health, certainly in the state of Minnesota, and is noted nationally to provide some insight as well. So Mike, thanks again, really. Greatly appreciate you being with us today.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
You know, I'll be honest with you. This is kind of where, you know, it's very, very complicated. There's a gazillion variables, as you noted earlier, Mike. But Here's the bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, somebody presents themselves desperately needing help. Okay, if they're able to even get to that point, desperately needing help with some mental health disorder, it's like,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
When they're in that state, I can only imagine that they don't care about all this other stuff, the research, and they don't care about the numbers. I need help now.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Exactly, exactly. And it's like, what the heck? Why is the system so unnecessarily burdensome and broken? to the point whereby that person cannot get help.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
A few years. Okay. So it wasn't immediate past. It was in the past.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I tend to agree. I mean, you know, some of the numbers here, this is insane. 2019, nearly a billion, this is worldwide now, nearly a billion people, including 14% of the world's adolescents were living with a mental disorder. This is insane. This is unconscionable, I believe.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
People with severe mental health conditions die on average of 10 to 20 years earlier than the general population, mostly due to preventable things that can help them. I mean, it's just insane. In Minnesota, I think we might've mentioned this in one of our previous show, but it's worthwhile stating it again.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
In 2023, 28.3% of adults in Minnesota reported, this is close to a quarter, one in four people reported symptoms of anxiety or a depressive disorder compared to 32% in the United States overall. All right, so we're maybe a little better, but not good by any stretch of the imagination. And I believe that we're going to see other major issues that affect our health overall, like another pandemic.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
It's inevitable. We'll see that. And guess what? Mental health will be greatly affected if our history, based on this one and previous ones, bears us out. So it's like, I feel so almost helpless as a healthcare provider trying to provide some insight for people that really need some mental health expertise. And where do people begin to even start?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
So thanks for being with us. So, all right, let's get this one going here. You know, this is kind of the angst that I have felt around health issues as it relates to policy. There are some health-related issues that get a lot of funding. They get a lot of research dollars. et cetera, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
You know, I got I got a great little sidebar story on that one about two, three months ago. One of our neighbors down the street, I saw her walking on the sidewalk and I knew that she had just gone through a medical issue. And so she was carefully walking down the sidewalk and I saw her and really encouraged her, really, really encouraged her. And
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I know, I just know that it really felt good to her to know that somebody was willing to just stop and, you know, and give her a hug. Then this last weekend, we had a little alley party and there she was and she looked great. I mean, you know, from when I saw her just, you know, two months ago or whatever, and I told her,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And, you know, I certainly can relate to that, you know, when I was dealing with cardiovascular issues at the state health department. But there always seems to be an angst or a disconnect between truly what is needed in the mental health arena, and God knows we need help in this arena, and those particular policy needs. So Mike, to kind of get this going, do you sense that as well?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
I went out of my way to go up to her and say, you know, I see you looking much better and I'm hoping that that is the case. A simple little thing like that can really be helpful for people and their mental health. I would, I would assume, you know, just this more human interaction.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
One thing I know for sure is I've been telling friends and colleagues and family that have something that comes up medically or mental health or what have you. And I offer this idea to them. I said, put me, Stan, on your speed dial. If you need help, I'm there for you. I'm really, and I mean that sincerely. And whether they do or they don't doesn't really matter.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Just the gesture means so much for a lot of people.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Do you see that it's a harder sell for mental health issues from a policy perspective than perhaps some of the other clinically oriented issues and diseases and manifestations that we all deal with?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
You know, there are particular models that have been proven pretty successful, like dentists, for instance, helping patients identify potential heart-related problems and getting those patients vaccinated.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
to the point where they don't even treat them in the dental office, get them into their primary care doc, because for instance, their blood pressure is really high and off they go to get that taken care of before they get their teeth cleaned, for instance. So there are some interesting connections between healthcare providers that hopefully might have some implications even in here.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
So Mike, I wanna try to, end this show on a positive note. Okay. So based on your, your career and, and what you're seeing, um, what do you think, what, what's really good? What do you see that's really positive right now?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Five years ago, we weren't doing our podcast. Now's the opportunity. So, Mike, sincerely, many, many thanks for this trio of shows on mental health. I'm assuming that there will be more episodes.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
questions and issues that that come up and hopefully we can reserve the right to give you a call and have you back on our show or for that matter even if there's something that you want to say through a through a podcast like this health chatter feel free to contact us it's it's been truly a uh a pleasure connecting with you over these three shows so thank you very very much
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
To our listening audience, we have great shows coming up, as you well can imagine. Check out our website at healthchatterpodcast.com. Typically, we get a show out about once a week or so. So keep health chatting always.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Of course, I'd like to thank our great crew that's second to none. And I keep saying that, and I'll continue to say that because they really are. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Sheridan Nygaard do our background research for us, help us with recording from time to time. And Sheridan also does our marketing for Health Chatter. So thank you to all of you. Matthew Campbell,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
So, Clarence, before I pass the baton to you, it's like you're involved in the community a lot.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
And I can't help but think that you see some of these true mental health issues. So besides, you know, some of the thoughts that you have in general, you might want to add that into the equation here.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Without his logistical production expertise, we would be lost. So thank you to him for getting our shows out in great fashion. And then also I wanna, especially thank and always thank Clarence, Clarence Jones. This has been a fun endeavor. We continue to enjoy it. We always say that when we stop having fun, the show will stop. But I don't think that's going to be a problem.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
So, you know, when you really think about this, it's like, you know, first of all, what comes to my mind, Mike, is how does Minnesota compare like with other states around the country? Are we even though you're describing here a not too good situation, are we still maybe a little better than what's going on in other states?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
Or is everyone, you know, all the states kind of fumbling around trying to figure out what's the best way to get this thing going?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
All right. So who's, Clarence, I'll get to you in a sec. Who's kind of like the best in the country? Is there a particular state that's kind of? ranking up there, like, I don't know, Hawaii usually gets some good rankings, you know, on health-related issues, but is there one that sticks out that- Yeah, let me look it up here.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Policy Implications
You know, perhaps could be a model to help, you know, other states get the ball rolling here a little bit? Clarence, and I'll let you chime in in the meantime here, too.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
So also we have a sponsor, and that's Human Partnership, a great community health organization that provides a lot of services to a lot of different groups out in the community. Thank you to Human Partnership. You can check them out at human, H-U-E-M-A-N, partnership.org. And you can check us out at healthchatterpodcast.com. And so with all that, now we get into the subject for today.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
So let me ask you, do any of the ideas that you're talking about, Joe, have they been underscored, for instance, in Healthy People, the Objectives for the Nation, or not?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
You know, it's interesting when you think about resources that are available, you know, for many of us, you look for resources when you need to look for them. And it's like, you know, if all of a sudden you're diagnosed like with cancer and you've never dealt with cancer before in your life, it's like, where in the hell do you start? Okay. Same idea here.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
We've got a great guest with us, Dr. Joseph Gogler from the University of Minnesota, Distinguished University Professor, Dr. Robert L. Cain, Endowed Chair in Long-Term Care. I knew Bob Cain for many, many years. He was a a wonderful colleague. He was also the Dean of the School of Public Health in the state of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
With long-term care issues, I have a sense that people have at least been thinking about it a little bit longer. Overall, but the problem is, is that, you know, still where to go to find these resources that'll make decision making easier. So we touched on one thing, you know, payment, you know, you talked about long-term care insurance and all this other kind of stuff. So here's what was curious.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Actually, one of my colleagues asked me this question. He said, make sure you ask him this. How do people pay for placing a spouse in long-term care? Is it separate insurance kicks in? How does that work? In other words, is it like if I decided I have to place my spouse in insurance, who's responsible for the payment mechanisms of that? Or is that all worked out with,
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. In today's episode, actually, we're going to be covering a few variables today in the healthcare arena. One is long-term care, longevity. We're going to touch on loneliness a little bit and also aging. We have a great guest with us. We'll get to his introduction in just a moment.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Dr. Gogler's research examines the sources and effectiveness of long-term care for persons with Alzheimer's disease and other chronic decisions. He's applied gerontologists Interest includes Alzheimer's, long-term care, longitudinal ramifications of family care for persons with dementia and chronic conditions. It's great having you. And for our listening audience, how did I connect with Joe?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
So does age-friendly, at least the way it's defined so far, also include sickness-friendly?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
So I want to kind of talk about some other variables that kind of linger in this conversation, and that's the ideas of loneliness.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Being alone and those types of things. So just for our listening audience, if you have a chance, Dr. Vivek Murthy, who used to be the Surgeon General of the United States, has really taken this upon himself to address this. loneliness. And it's interesting, he really defined, and we can link it to this conversation for sure.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
There's intimate loneliness, what he described, intimate loneliness, relationship loneliness, community loneliness, and isolation, living alone, all together. And when you place a spouse or a significant other in a long-term care facility, I can't help but think that you're going to be dealing with some of this stuff. Some level of isolation, some level of loneliness all of a sudden.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
I mean, even if that person might've been so sick that you placed in long-term care, but just their presence, just being out of the house, can, I would assume can lead to that. Yet, you know, according to the article that came in out in the New York Times, it, there's also a sense of relief, too. Relief and stress reduction. So I wonder if you could comment on that a little bit.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Well, there was an article in the New York Times that's really going to kick off our discussion here. There's an article in the New York Times, February 3rd, And the title of the article was When a Spouse Goes to a Nursing Home.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
And without even reading the article further, I was saying to myself, wow, that really has a lot of implications, not only for the person that's going into the long-term care facility, but also the person that's placing them in the facility. So then, of course, then I read the article, and then, of course, Dr. Gagler's research was noted in it. So why don't we start out there, first of all.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
So, you know, there's, All this, I mean, it's a lot when you really think about all the variables and all the implications and timing and costs and all that. So based on everything, what do you believe is the lowest hanging fruit, so to speak, in order to really have some strong implications for our communities? And how is it that we communicate that effectively?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Joe, why don't you give us just a sense of what it means to get or to place a person, a loved one, a significant one, in a long-term care facility, and what ramifications does it have for that person that's going into the facility, as well as the one that's perhaps left at home.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
You know, I think of, you know, long-term care is avoidance behavior. You know, it's like none of us really want to, and for many people, you know, they want to live at home and all this kind of, so it's avoidance behavior. So how is it that we can get beyond, it shouldn't be avoided, okay? It shouldn't have a negative connotation in that sense.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
How is it that we can truly make long-term care possible? easier, more user-friendly, more engaging for all of us in the sense that it's not as hard to navigate for those that really need it and for those that are behind. So Clarence, other thoughts that you have?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
You know, before this, we had a show right prior to this on the illusion of immortality. Oh, yeah.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Absolutely, yeah. And human beings are really hardwired to be more interactive.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
You know, when you talk about genetics, it's kind of like, you know, for myself, I feel like I have like a split personality because it's my father died when he was he was he was quite young and I was young. And then my mother died when she was quite old. So where does that leave me somewhere genetically in between? Right.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
You know, there's that infamous one-liner. I believe it's attributed to Jimmy Durante, you know, a comedian way, way back. If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself. Yeah. Barry, any comments from you, Barry?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
You know, as human beings, we are given practice, right? along the way, I don't think we necessarily think of it that way. But, you know, when people, for instance, have a knee replaced, they need to have, you know, some support at home, or when somebody just gets sick at home, and you know, it's going to be, you know, it's, yeah, it's not chronic, but acute. We are given some tools.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Yeah, it's just that we don't embrace them in such a level. That we're talking about here.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Yeah, and an incredible adjustment of lifestyle, not only for that person that is suffering from dementia, but also those that are caring. Well, this subject, subjects, can go on. We greatly appreciate your insights into this, and
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
We hope we can reserve the opportunity to call on you again for some other subjects that come up related to this that we think that, geez, you know, Joe would be a good voice for this. So stay tuned on that. With that, we have great shows coming up on Health Chatter. Our next show, believe it or not, will be on childhood diabetes.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
And so that also will be of great interest because we're seeing higher incidence of diabetes in younger populations. So with that, thank you for being with us. Thank you for all the comments from all of us on the show. And to all of you in the listening audience, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
As you all know, if you've listened to Health Chatter and some of our great shows, we've got a great wonderful cast that really helps us provide insights into the shows and also gets the shows out to you, the listening audience. Our researchers include Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard. Sheridan also does some marketing for us.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I remember when my sister and I had the discussion with my own mother that it was time for her to go, in this case, into an assisted living facility. And I remember prior to that, the discussion that we had about taking the keys from the car away. Okay. Which is kind of like, I almost perceive that as a step, you know, prior.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
It's like one of those variables where you're taking away something from somebody. from somebody, frankly, for perhaps maybe the same reasons that you might be putting them into a long-term care facility or assisted with safety, health reasons, et cetera. Yeah, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
And then, of course, we have Matthew Campbell, who does our actually all of our production and gets the shows out to you, the listening audience. We have also our new medical advisor with us and on our team, Dr. Barry Bain. So welcome to you, Barry. It's great to have you aboard.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
It's interesting when you talk about how it's done. Again, I can use my own family as a perfect illustration. My father passed away many, many years ago, and then my mother was left. And here it was, her kids... were here to help make those decisions. But the kids were adults and they had their own families to deal with. And so then it became, how is it that you actually make these decisions?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Like this article in the New York Times was referring to situations where a spouse, replaces a spouse, okay? So we can talk about that for just a second, but then also, you know, there's a situation, well, what about spouse isn't there? Okay, then it's adult children, perhaps, that are making the decision. Then it becomes adult children, are they living in the same city?
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Okay, I mean, it just keeps going on and on, these variables that affect people's lives for those that are being potentially placed, and then also those that are trying to do what's best.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
And then of course, there's Clarence Jones. We've had a great time doing these shows. He's a great co-host, brings a really interesting community angles to all the subjects that we bring to you. So Clarence, once again, It's great. It's always really great.
Health Chatter
Long-Term Care, Longevity, Loneliness, & Aging
Or meaningful, you know, it could be better and more meaningful.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
I got my, my head around it. Um, and, you know, and doing some fun, interesting things going forward. Do I, um, I miss some of the things that I was involved with? Yeah, of course, you know, but, um, There are other things that can cause grief, and it just doesn't necessarily have to circle around illness. One thing, though, is how we respond to it individually.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And Clarence, you noted that for some people, they just can't get out of it. Yeah. OK. And and they need sometimes they need, you know, therapy or assistance or guidance or things to help them move on. You know, whether that's exercising more or socializing differently or taking on some new activities or. just going for a walk with someone. Those types of things are different for each individual.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Basically, everybody should know that we put our research, background research to all our shows on our website. So you can connect in with all the different things that we use as reference points for our discussion. So check us out. And if you like us, Give us a nice review. That would be nice too. All right. So today we're going to be talking about grief. So Clarence, I'll let you start it out.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah. You know, here's an interesting thing that I've experienced. when our when we had our first grandchild i i was i don't know if i was grieving but i was certainly sad i mean i was happy that you know we had a you know grandchild but i was also sad that my dad wasn't around yeah okay because he would have just gone nuts for for you know OK, and he wasn't able to experience it.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
So it caused me to reflect on not on grieving, but a little bit of the sadness that he couldn't. But, you know, how you cope with it is differently. Like I know, you know, you say in your head. you know, he's looking down and smiling. Okay. That type of thing. Okay. And that's how you, how you cope with it as, as human beings.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Correct, correct. You know, one thing too is remembering is not necessarily grief. You know, for some people, you know, keeping, you know, constantly remembering can exacerbate grief. But on the other hand, remembering can be a really positive thing, um, as, as you go forward, uh, after you've, you've lost somebody. So everybody deals with it differently.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
So I want to, I want to change focus just a little bit here and talk about community. All right. So our listening audience, you know, we're all housed here in, in, um, pretty much in, in Minnesota. So we went through a major community, um, event when, um, with George Floyd and that whole very unfortunate situation.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And it really was hard, I think for this community to embrace the sadness of all of that. So Clarence, you're in the African-American community Just give me a sense of how you think the population grieved during that period of time.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
All right. So, you know, I'll tell you, we're living in a time where, unfortunately, there's a lot of grief that's going on at various different levels. But what's your sense of it, Clarence?
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
you know correct me if i'm wrong i think part of the um response that we all felt perhaps was this how in the heck could something like this happen in the state of minnesota you know where we're all kind of you know we we don't see it or you know whatever like you would necessarily in uh like you know like in a city like new york for instance where there's maybe a higher crime rate but
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
How can this happen here? So my wife and I, we went to the site, you know, the memorial site to see it because it's like, you know, perhaps grieving is you can't realize it or maybe accept it unless you sense it or are there physically. And I'll tell you, it really hit us when we went to that, to the site where it happened. And it's just like, oh my God, you know, it's like,
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show with Jess Clarence and I today, aren't you all lucky, is on the subject of grief and health, which is kind of sad, but hopefully there'll be a positive component to it at the very end. So stay tuned for all the insight on grief. Thanks to our illustrious staff,
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You know, we've talked in previous shows about gun violence, gun safety, racism, anti-Semitism, which really all these things are hitting at our core. How often is it that we need to keep hearing about and how often do we have to keep hearing and grieving? Even though these might not be people that you are close to, but you still grieve nonetheless.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah. keep in mind what we're trying to do here, what Clarence and I are trying to do is connect the concept of grief with health, okay, and how it affects our health. And Sheridan put together the background for this show, and I gave her kind of, you know, a little bit of an outline, and this is the outline. There's personal grief, there's
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And, um, and everybody deals with it differently. It's just like some people say, well, geez, you know, it's out of my control. I can't do much about it. So it's like, I just keep going on with life where there are other people that become, um,
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You know, and there are different ways of responding, too. You can respond at the personal level and you can respond at the community level. So think about this, for instance. It's like when people are up in arms about something, they'll march. They'll go to gatherings, big, huge gatherings.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
gatherings or meet at different, they become more spiritual where they have a sense that they need to connect spiritually. So they go to their churches or synagogues to connect with one another. Or be with everybody who is together sharing the grief. So these are hard things.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You know, we're dealing with wars right now, which, you know, I can respond to as a Jew, the angst that, and I really have angst. There's There's part of me that, you know, the history behind it all, and I grieve for the loss of life on the Israeli side. Then, you know, I grieve for, on the other side, you know, people's civilian lives that are taken in order for us to...
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
come to some kind of semblance of order and some kind of semblance of peace. The humanity comes out in us. For some people, the humanity is lacking, okay? And they don't grieve. They don't grieve in that way. So it's... You know, when you have family, for instance, like we do in Israel, I greatly, you know, my wife and family greatly appreciate just people checking in on us.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You know, how are you doing? How are you handling the situation? I might've mentioned, I can't remember on a previous show, a charge nurse at Methodist Hospital here in St. Louis Park, who is Ukrainian. And I check in with her every time I see her, how she's doing. And then when the war broke out in Israel, she didn't say a word to me except coming up to me and she said,
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
community grief we're going to talk about all these there's national grief what's going on nationally in in our country there's international grief that's that's going on and then as we deal with grief there are acute aspects to it and there are also chronic aspects to it But I think the bottom line is one way or the other, grief elicits for all of us a level of stress and anxiety.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
she put her arms around me and she said, now it's your turn for a hug. That's what she said. So she understood the grief on one end and I understood the grief on the other. So that helps. And so from a health standpoint, being there for other people when they need it is important, is really, really important.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And we all, one way or the other, carry what I would dub as historical grief. Okay, whether that's your own family, immediate family, or your own culture, you carry that. Okay, you learn to cope with it, but nonetheless, you carry it. And then there are incidences that crop up that bring that forward, that grief forward more. And you realize, oh my God, you know, now we have to deal with this.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You know, from a national perspective, the other thing is, you know, that's really affecting a lot of people from a grief standpoint is how divided we are in the nation. I mean, we're, frankly, I, you know, I think the Statue of Liberty in New York is grieving, okay, for us all. There's part of me that wants to say, okay, wake up everybody.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
We can figure this out and we should figure this, the big this out. But people get very, very entrenched in their ideas and that can lead to where we're at now and thus grieving. we see a heightened grievance. The historical aspects, believe me, there are a lot of historical things in humankind that affect us all. But support becomes crucial. When you need to connect with somebody, you should.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah, it helps us put things in perspective. Correct. Grief, if there's a silver lining to it, it helps us to learn. and to look at the world a little differently or stop and slow down and take in these lessons. One thing I wanted to bring up is as you get older. Okay, so as you get older, certainly Clarence, you and I can reflect on this. You've experienced more.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You've experienced more death, more grief, more incidences. And I can honestly say from my perspective, I don't become numb to them just because I've gone through a bunch of them. And it doesn't become any easier. You know, it's not great losing friends or it's not great seeing what's going on in the world.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
But I think what you've what for me, what I've been able to do is reflect on when I have seen these things before. And what have I learned from them that will help me cope going forward?
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Correct. And, you know, I think, you know, part of, part of grieving is learning how to embrace happiness. Right. maybe even more than you might have before. And by embracing happiness, I think really helps you to be healthier.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And so hopefully we'll be able to get to all of these. So let's talk about personal grief first. So Clarence, let me ask you, I'm sure that there's been grief in your family or you've experienced grief. Do you want to share some of that and how you kind of dealt with it?
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
You know, one thing I've learned is when someone is grieving, another person shouldn't be judging them. Yeah. really not judging them. They should be supporting them, helping them, doing what they can for them. And I sense that for some of what's going on in the world, there's more judgment that's going on than support for one another.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And if we got to that point where we were supporting one another or realized that that's really what we should be doing, maybe it would be healthier.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And, and, and do something that you like doing, you know, if you want to eat a chocolate donut, do it. If it makes you feel better, you know, what the heck, you know, don't, or yeah, just don't eat a whole box of them with that. Um, We hope that everybody keeps health chatting away. We hope that everybody supports one another with, frankly, with whatever grief is going on for any of us.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
We've got great shows coming up down the pike here. We're going to be looking at spirituality. We're going to be looking at cardiac rehab. We're going to be looking at prostate health. a bunch of really, really great shows. And we hope that you all continue to keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah. You know, it's interesting connecting to the last show that we did on, or one of the last shows that we did on long COVID. And you've alluded to this. It's kind of like grieving that personal interaction, even though, you know, we've all had, you know, access to Zoom or what have you, to be able to see each other. But touch is also a major component here.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard are really all second to none. They cover all the aspects for us on our background research and marketing and production. And Clarence and I certainly could not do it without them. Then, of course, Clarence Jones is my great colleague. We're having a good time doing this.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And there might be, you know, the jury is out on how it is that we might grieve that or lack of it going forward. So what we'll see how that goes. Alright, so let's talk a little bit more about personal grief. So I went to last three weeks, I've gone to two funerals. The, the first one was I went on to because a colleague of mine that I used to work with his mother passed away at 93.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
I did not know her, but I went for him because we were good colleagues. And it's really interesting as I reflect on it. His mother was a wonderful woman, really. And the funeral was very, very nice. But obviously, I sensed with people around me different levels of grieving. For me, I wasn't grieving. I was there as, I guess, a support mechanism more than anything. anything else.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
But I sense the different levels, you know, some people were very, very close to this woman. Others, not like, for instance, me, but I grieved for them. Okay. You know, we lost a dear person. And, and that could be hard. And you know, when I left the, the church, after Afterwards, you know, I still had that sense of sadness for him, my colleague. Then let me fast forward a little bit.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
I went to another funeral. A friend of mine's mother passed away. She was 94, I believe, 93, 94. And I think I might have mentioned in a previous show the difference between being devastated as far as grief is concerned. OK, like, you know, for instance, I was devastated when my father passed away when I was 24 versus my mother who passed away when she was 94. I was sad. I was really saddened.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
And I grieved and I had different levels of grief, as did my friend whose mother passed away. So, Clarence, I know you've gone to funerals or have seen sad things. What's your sense of it? Do you feel that different kind of level of grief as well?
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
We have great shows coming up, which we'll talk about. at the end of this show. The sponsor for Health Chatter is Human Partnership, great community health organization. I recommend that you check out their website and all the different activities that they're involved with at humanpartnership.org. And also you could check out our website at Health Chatter. So take a look at that.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I try to reflect, you know, personally, and maybe, you know, Sheridan, DeAndre, you can chime in on this too. When the first time was that you really had a sense of grief, was it because somebody had passed away that was near and dear to you or something that was happening in our community or environment that was sad or upsetting to you.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Do you, could any of you, any of it, Clarence too, can you reflect on any of that kind of thing? When was like the first time you had a real strong sense of grief?
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah. You know, which is another, another thing too. Um, loss of a pet is, um, is, is frankly, to be honest with you, I find that really difficult.
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Um, you know, because they, you know, their whole lives, you've tried to, you know, communicate with them as best you, you could. And, um, Man, it's hard to say goodbye to when you have to put a dog or a cat to sleep. That's hard because they've shared a lot with you as a family. And I remember doing it and it's not easy. Sheridan, do you have a thought on grief?
Health Chatter
Grief and Health
Yeah. You know, you bring up a really good point. Grief does not necessarily have to come from, like, for instance, a death or an injury or an illness, per se. It can come from other things, such as retiring. You know, people have asked me when I retired, are you grieving? Okay. And the answer for me quite honestly was no, because, um, you know, I had kind of set it up ahead of time.