Caller Two (Unnamed)
Appearances
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
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The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
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The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
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The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
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The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
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The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
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The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
which I'm like, now I'm kind of starting to regret that, but there's nothing I can do to change the past. And like this last year and a half, we've been together fully while he's been sober. So that has been like the beginning of our, I feel like the first time we've actually taken a real chance on it for this last year and a half. And we live together and everything.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Just like being together because before I don't really feel like it was taken seriously by him. He's been in my life for five,
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
years but it was on and off for every three months and then we took like a big break I dated another person was it his choice or your choice to take the break it's always been my choice I just say like I can't do this anymore and I just like leave and he never fights for it really it's just like I understand if you're unhappy like you're unhappy and I get it so that doesn't really feel like my choice either sometimes yeah it doesn't sound like it's your choice you know you break yeah
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yes. I feel like I've done a lot of things like that where it's like I feel like he's kind of been like my kryptonite I guess where it's just like I just like can't like I don't know why I just I feel like I put myself in positions where it's like that was either like I hurt somebody else because I'm trying to get over him in the process or like I just have like
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
embarrass myself trying to do something that like what brings you guys back together when you took the break he always would reach out and like we both like would always say how our connection is very special and it's just like we are very good partners like I feel that we balance each other really well and he does ground me a lot we end up missing each other and he'll when he reaches out it's just like it's very hard for me to not want to step back into it and yeah I don't know I guess that
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah, no, actually we do have a therapist. We go to couples therapy together.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah. Well, we first went because of all this stuff with the back and forth. I kind of had a lot happen. Well, I got pregnant twice. By him?
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Well, the first one I miscarried and he was not really able to be there for me that time. And then the second one, we weren't together. I had like just a little bit of... I freaked out by the reaction that I got from family members the first time around that it happened. And I like knee-jerk reaction, had an abortion. And I do feel like I regret that because that's something that I've always...
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
wanted in my life is to be a mother so I just I feel like that was really hard for me to get past those two things and so thank you yeah but we did go to therapy together to get past that because I just kept on
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
bringing it back up and I just like I just don't think I can move past this and feel like I can have this trust with you and like that you actually like like I didn't believe he loved me fully but I was like why am I with you then I don't understand like I feel like like weak in that sense where I just was like I'm with you but I don't feel like you actually love me but I hope you do and so then I through therapy I did find that like I know that he does love me
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I mean, a lot of his actions, like I said, like our day to day is really, it is great. He does make genuine efforts and tries hard to show me that he loves me daily and his words. And he's very like,
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yes we have Yeah, we have spoken about it a little bit, but it's mostly around the issue of him prioritizing work because when it's brought up, it's like, he's just too tired to deal with things when it comes down to it. Like, it's just like, it's always, he's too tired. So my therapist has like tried to, or our therapist has tried to suggest like just
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
him making like setting certain time aside to be intentional. And that's when we started to do more like date nights. And it's just the discussion. Sometimes it just feels like when it's too heavy for him, it does hit a point where it's just like too much to break through.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
And like, I don't know, I guess we haven't really nailed down that specific topic with my with our therapist, which I would, that's a good thing for us to focus on. and bring up, I feel like I feel a little bit helpless about it. Like, I just don't know if that part of him can change. So I think maybe I'm just here to bring that up too. I don't really know if it would be.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I feel like this is kind of where I go back and forth because, I feel like I have done a lot of condensing myself of things in our relationship. So I feel like in my mind, I feel like he is the person for me. And I don't really feel like it's that much of a percentage that debates if he is or not.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
But when I get to the point where I feel frustrated, like he's not participating, I'm like fully out the door. So it's like, I don't really know how to gauge if that's,
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
a lot of me is contemplating it or if it's just like something that is like a really important thing for me to obviously obviously it is an important thing for me to fix and to change within our relationship dynamic but yeah I'm not really sure how to gauge do you feel like how much do you feel like he's more of your boyfriend or your partner and by partner I mean like the you know being a partner like a teammate do you feel like he's a teammate
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
No, that's a good, that's, you know, the thing that you always say where it's like, you have a boyfriend who wants the benefits of a girlfriend, but isn't really interested in being a boyfriend.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah. That's kind of how I feel like it is sometimes with him. Like, I do feel like it's more, he is more like that than an active partner who wants to like, because he can do all the other things like, I mean, obviously, like, this is
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
a little different but it's like what's taking out the trash you're like picking me up from the airport like things like I know I can rely on him for certain like physical things that I need
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
sure a partner for I mean emotionally I can also rely on him for like my own stuff if I was talking to him about it but when it's him and I it's like if it involves him having to like dig deep it's like he's just like he and he knows that he avoids that with everybody too it's not just me but yeah that's not really where I have feel like he's like stepping up
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah. Yes, yeah. Because there has been success, but it's kind of little compared to the- Well, I mean success around this particular topic, not success in the sense that like, I mean, he's currently a boyfriend.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah, that's fair. That's something that I tell him a lot when we're going through certain things that I need to talk through. I do end up telling him I feel really alone in our relationship right now and I feel disconnected. Sometimes when it comes to that and that's where usually it derives from, it's like I feel disconnected and then he's just like, okay, I don't like it.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
It's almost like I feel like an annoying little sister sometimes and it just makes me feel so
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
which I don't know if that would help the case because I know, I mean, I know that he does want to work it out and he wants to be with me, but I know that for him, it's just like this emotional, it's the emotional intelligence that he never learned to have because through his life, what he has done with emotions or eyes is depressed.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I do feel like I need to hear that sometimes because I think that, like, I feel like I want to hear the truth no matter what, always. And I just, like, I feel like this means you just don't care. And that's okay, but just say that. You know, like, I don't want to pretend like it's because, oh, it really has nothing to do with the fact that, like, I don't care. It's just I really am tired.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
It's like even if I'm so tired and I can barely like keep my eyes open because I'm just so exhausted because I've had the most draining day, I would never just say, oh, you're feeling this way. You just continue to feel this way so that I can feel comfortable with how I want to feel right now and just go to sleep.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
And like on my time, we'll talk when I'm ready because it's just like that just feels so unfair to me. And it feels like you just don't care. And like, let's just call it what it is.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I told him, I really feel like the boy who cried wolf. Cause it's like, I'm like, I'm done never doing this again. And like,
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Honestly, I don't think it matters how I come across when we are arguing because I do feel like in moments I have a right to give step, but I'm not hard to talk to. I want to resolve the issue. I don't want to get into some...
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
big fight I don't think anyone really does but I feel like that's what's frustrating the most to me is it's just like I it's so easily and then he gets frustrated when he's like why are you upset like after days and days of me calmly asking hey can we speak about this can we talk about this please like I really like this is bothering me it's like and then once I've been kind of put off for multiple days then it's like what what's wrong I don't understand it's like well
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I'm now I'm frustrated. Now I'm like emotionally, like I'm crying. I'm whatever.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Uh, yeah, I mean, I guess so, but I, he is one of my best friends, but he's not my very best friend.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Oh, for sure. Yeah, my best friend that I've been best friends with since childhood has a really hard time He's come around and like he has grown a lot.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I guess that's interesting that you brought that up. I definitely, that's a point that I was thinking of not too long ago. I was just thinking of how he does always tell me like, you're my best friend. And I told my sister, I was just like, I just don't feel like he's mine though.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I have such great, No, I haven't. And that's upon me for sure. I usually just tell him, yeah, like you're my best friend too.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I feel like relationships for me, like my family and my friendships, like I, that's something that I put so much effort and time into because it matters so much to me and I have the best support system. And so it's hard. Cause it's like, I feel like that should make sense in the area of my partner too. And it's just doesn't. And yeah, that,
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
is hard because I'm like I just really don't want to I do feel like we have so many good parts about our relationship and it's so hard for me to like get that out of my head but I feel like I have to just be so honest that is the most important part of who I am is of the relationships I have. And so it has to make sense. Like he should be my best friend. You're right.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I definitely haven't really thought about it like that before. Because I do think that I value, because of the value of my relationships, that I just, with my family and friends, I think that it would just be hard to come close to, like for any guy. Like I just don't, I've never really had a significant other where I feel like they're my best friend. They know me inside and out.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I don't really feel like I've had any guy really take the time to get to know me super well. And I've always been worried about being with somebody who, is with me because of what I can give to them versus, like, because I feel like I will give, like, everything I have into a relationship. And I just think that, like, obviously, I mean, most people do, I guess.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
But I just think that sometimes, too, maybe I overextend a little bit. And then I just think that, like, I'm afraid of that being taken advantage of, but I'm letting that happen is what I have to say.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
When you say all the investment, do you mean like all of our everything, like time spent?
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah. Especially when there's been like so much, positive change I think through our relationship and growth like although like might not look like all that much it's keeps on getting better and better um in all these areas so I guess if I took all that out I don't think I don't know if I would
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
be in the relationship if it was just like this is a brand new like this was a situation if I met him how he was now and I was coming up with these issues and I'm my age now because it's like obviously me at 22 is very different than me at 27 and I think that if I was just looking at that for what it was and not knowing anything about him and just seeing that I'd say yeah I'm good I would like someone with more ability to be there for me more
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yeah, he tells me like life would be really scary without you.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I like it. I think that feels, that feels good. I want to, I definitely want to be honest about that. And I think that that resonates a lot for me. And I think that that would be shocking for him to hear. And like you said, not in a way that it's like, I want to hurt him.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
It's just in a way that might make him understand a little bit more of like how he feels about me is not the same way I feel about him, which should raise a flag for him, you know?
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
Yes, it was very helpful. I appreciate you.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
That is something to ponder. Yeah. My mom, my mom will always tell me that she's like, you just keep coming back to this, you know? Cause I call her like, and I feel like it's like, I feel like I'm going insane sometimes with how much I go back and forth because it's like, as soon as this comes up where I feel alone, I'm like, I want to leave.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
And it's like, I tell, and I don't, I do voice it to him every time. I'm like, I want to leave.
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
because I don't know if I really fully mean it and it's like now I'm sitting here talking to you about it I'm trying to get clearer on if I mean that or not and I feel I feel better about knowing now like I've tried to calm down from that and saying like I'm gonna leave all the time and threatening that because it's like it's not helpful and if I really mean that like I want to only I just want to do it through my actions and just say hey here's what's happening I'm leaving if that's what's gonna happen I don't want to have to be like I'll see if I can get a reaction that
The Viall Files
E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man
I agree with that. I definitely I've never been alone either, which is like I've always gone from relationship to relationship. And this is like.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
And as of late, it's kind of just like plateaued.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
So we were kind of in this conversation where he's, he's a really crappy texter. Like he takes like a day or two to respond to my texts and our texts are more like lengthy and in depth. So I always thought that that was like, okay. But the one day he had kind of said to me, oh, sorry that I like suck at texting. I'm not interested in keeping you waiting, blah, blah, blah.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
I was like, okay, that was kind of out of nowhere, but I wasn't sure. like where he was coming from for that. And we decided that he wasn't ready or in a position in his life to kind of progress things. But I was willing to more so like take a step back and meet him where he was at. And so I had sent him a text message a week later saying I was good to keep things more casual.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
And he wrote back being like, okay, can I get back to you? And I was like, yeah, sure. And then that was three weeks ago and he's just gone. not ever gotten back to me.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
No, I think what really stuck to me was, um, like he treated me with a lot of respect and,
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah, opening up the door, wiping the snow off, you know, putting on my jacket for me, like that type of stuff. And then, you know, I also noticed that even though he sucked at, like,
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
texting back at in a decent time frame like he was also not on his phone like with me and a lot of people like we we know a lot of the same people and they were always like oh he's he's great like he's such a good guy good like good for you type of thing so kind of like reassured like okay like this is
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
this is a good one I'm going after for it wasn't someone that was like I had typically gone for in my past so it was like new but yeah so I'm I'm just kind of like stumped thinking like you know he kind of just I mean he kind of told me he didn't want to progress things and when uh we had got together um one night after he had sent that text message we talked about it in person and
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
And he had kind of said that he was so busy with work that he didn't have the capacity or he didn't want to feel more weight on him, like in the girlfriend style. But he's like, your wife material. If you want a boyfriend, you totally deserve it. You should go after it. But like, I can't do that now.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
And then he also told me to protect myself, which I know I was thinking, I was like, oh gosh, I was like, if I write into Nick and I tell this and he's going to be like, if someone tells you to protect yourself against them, then like you'd be a fool not to believe them type of thing. Right.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Well, before this whole like situation happened, we had gone on three dates.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah. And I thought it was like fireworks. That's what I thought of my dicks and ties because I thought it was like great.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
I don't know. I feel like I need someone to, like, tell me, which, like, my friends have been telling me, but I need someone to tell me, be like, get over it type of thing.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Or like just because this is like one of the first guys to treat me like with respect. Is that why I am like hesitant to like keep walking away type of thing?
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Well, no, it's not that I'm not going to give up on him. I mean, I haven't reached out.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah. I think I was just hopeful that like if I were to like see him out and about that, like maybe like we could rekindle.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Right. Yeah. So you believe in the whole like if he wanted to, he would type of thing. Like if a guy is interested in you, it doesn't matter how busy they are in their schedule.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah, when we had a conversation about that, he said he didn't see kids in his future. He didn't want kids, and he didn't even know what he wanted in his future in terms of a wife and a family.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah, I would like my family, like a family and kids.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
It's sad. I mean, him, I think he's healed some wounds that I didn't realize were still there. So it served its purpose in the end.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Well, just in terms of that, I was going for guys that really treated me like shit. So it's like, why was I going for these guys and giving guys time?
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
i'm not really dating to be honest and like if i hook up with guys like it was more like traveling it wasn't really from like where i live and that was just more like you just hooked up and you just kind of moved on uh guys would i travel with yes or i would still like i still talk to them but it's more like but it's pretty cash yeah yeah yeah yeah so what about men that you've dated
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
I would say I haven't really dated a lot. I dated in high school, which counts in a way, and then I had one relationship.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
I think they were just from my university days that I would meet guys at bars type of thing.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yes. I mean, I dated someone and we broke up like three or four years ago, but yeah, that's it.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
I'm finding it hard to even like meet people. The apps suck. I mean, I went back on Hinge and there's one guy I'm talking to and I'm not sure like how that would like work out, but I'm not really meeting people out in like real life. So I don't know where I'm supposed to meet someone that like I would potentially see as a partner or someone that I would want to date with.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Or like on like an adventure type of thing, like excursion. Okay.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Right. Yeah, I wasn't I before that guy had even said that he wasn't like he didn't have the time for me. I was like, Whoa, I didn't even know that that's like, yeah, I thought some of the things that we had talked about, he could lead into a potential partner, but I didn't even like decide in my head if I had had feelings for him, or he was someone that I saw myself dating, like,
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
It kind of like we got in this conversation and then like, that's when like a real, what are we type of conversation was had. And I was like, that was kind of premature. Like we were just hanging out and seeing how it was going. And then now it's like, okay, no, nevermind.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah. My thought was kind of coming into play was that like my ego was like, oh, I can't believe it type of thing. And like the rejection kind of like.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah. When, when I wrote in to speak with you, it was like the first week after we had just stopped talking. So, and then like, I've been processing it the last couple of weeks and I'm like, okay, I think I'm good with like where I'm at with it, but I just wanted more of that like validation and like reassurance from you.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Cause all like everything that you're saying, I've already like process in my head and I'm in therapy. And we talked, we talked about this, like with my therapist and about, okay, like,
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
This is someone who's been showing new things for me, but okay, now it's my turn to kind of write on paper what I do want from a partner and what are things that I'll be looking for in non-negotiables and that type of stuff. So if anything, he showed me some qualities that I will now demand type of thing in my next partner.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah, sorry. Well, yeah, not demand. They must open my door, but like things that I won't like settle for type of without.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah, I think you're right. Because I think I spent the majority of like my 20s traveling and working and working to travel and then taking like five, six weeks off to go do that. So then I wouldn't have time to date. So that always got put on a back burner. But I also didn't I didn't really want to date. Like I didn't want to open myself up to like potentially get hurt again.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
So now that like I'm in a spot in my life where I feel like I have my ducks in a row, I'm ready to kind of take that like next chapter of life with someone else. Like it is like discouraging when someone who I thought like maybe could have been someone cool to date didn't feel the same. Like that's where like the ego and like the rejections, like, God damn, like, okay.
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
So, you know, I, I was in the accepting part of it. I just wanted to,
The Viall Files
E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend
Yeah, that's something that my therapist and I are talking about right now is that like the famous quote of would you rather love and lost or just like not kind of love at all. And I feel like I've always led towards that rather just never known what it was. So then I'm not missing it after it's like been lost, you know?