Brett
Appearances
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Just crying in the penalty box. These guys are missing teeth. You think they care about me? They're not snowflakes here. Like, I played sports. I didn't care what the fans said.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Okay, okay. I can understand that 100%. Since I didn't have any indication... And I know now I apologize that maybe it was too much for you. And if I would have known, I would have I would have changed my tune.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
That stipulation is pretty tough because the only thing I had in my mind was sports. No, no, no. Of course not. No, we can do anything else. I'm down for that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I'm looking forward to it. I appreciate it. Thank you, guys.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I'm really curious now what the other bases are. No, you are. Go to hell.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Her name is Rachel.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Where did you meet Rachel? So I met her online, and I always like a girl who has, like, a really nice sense of humor. And so she had a picture of her with these two dogs on each side of her, and it's like, do we look like family? Like, that was one.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Yeah, and she had a costume, too, where she was like Mario, and I liked that she was a little different, like it was her and her friend Mario and Luigi.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
So we spoke a little bit, you know, obviously online for a bit, and then I found out that she's never been to a hockey game, and I'm a big hockey fan.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
And I made sure to get tickets, like, really close to the glass so you can, like, bang on the glass. Maybe a pup would come our way.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Within blood spatter range. Yeah. In case a flight breaks out.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Because that's how I got into hockey. Like, when you're at a live game, it's totally different than watching on TV. TV, a little boring. Agreed. But in person, amazing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Okay. But, you know, we pre-gamed a little bit before the game. So, went to my apartment, had a good time. It got a little hot before. Like, we had a couple of drinks and then ended up making out for a bit.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Oh my God. I don't even know what base that is anymore.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
A hundred percent. It was really great. I mean, I had to stop and I was like, wait, hold on. We're going through quick. Let's go to the game.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Half and half. You know, I was like, I definitely want to stay, but it was also my home team, you know, big game. So I wanted to make sure like, Hey, let's enjoy this. We can always come back. Like, I think there's a good thing about mixing up energy, you know?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Well, no, so we could probably get there because that's where I have some questions, why I'm calling.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
So, you know, at the game, obviously we had beers, hot pretzels. Like I thought a really good moment is she had like some melted cheese on the side of her face. And I was like, hey, so I reached over, pulled off my finger and I ate it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Look, she was smiling and we were laughing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
And we got put on the kiss cam.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
True. It was good. We had a good kiss. The crowd was cheering. I mean, like, the night's going pretty freaking great. It sounds really good. I wish I was at this game.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
So the game was like near the end of the third period. We probably like two minutes left. And she was telling me, Hey, I'm getting kind of tired. I'd like to leave early. And I was telling her like, this is my team. It's still tied. I want to say for the end, it won't last much longer. But she was really adamant, and then she was like, well, I'm going to head out. And I was like, oh, okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
So I was like, oh, my God. Oh, no.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
She did. She left. And you stayed? Yeah, I stayed. She said, hit me up. I'm going to go home. I'm really tired.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
I'm wondering if it's where it is. I mean, look, I'm not into the whole testing thing when I first meet you because of previous trauma. Sure. But I'm glad I stayed because the team freaking won. That was shootout. You know, I was like, I'm good.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Right. Right. Well, I hit her up and I was like, we won. We won. And she just hasn't been answering my text.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Hey, then it wouldn't have worked out anyway.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Yeah, Rachel, that's Brett. I did. I mean, I didn't think it was that intense. You know, you go to a sporting event and you let loose and you support the team and you're there to have a really good time. And, I mean, I didn't get any indication that it was too much for her. Like, the kiss cam happened after I ran up and down the aisles.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
No, no, you're not forced to kiss. No one forces adults to kiss. Like, you do it or you don't.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Well, it's what I do. I don't do it when I'm like going around in my regular life, like running around like a freak show. I just have fun when I'm at a game. Like I'm there to enjoy my damn team and let loose.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
Okay, so he planned this. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. Who says what the rules are supposed to be? You know, I'm like, that's who I am. And if she didn't show me that she didn't like it, it was still exciting. So if she didn't like it, maybe I would have, like, I don't know.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
No, I'm not going to apologize for making the other players feel bad.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Hockey Fan Gets Hosed
No, no one looked up and had tears.
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
Did you read the books?
The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source
Starbucks DVD peddlers (Friends)
Do you all remember Wizard of Oz 2? With the wheelers and how scary that was?
The Charlie Kirk Show
Ask Charlie Anything 208: Fat Kids = Child Abuse? Afghanistan Alternatives? Is DCFS Abusive?
I'm from Florida, actually. And I have to say you guys have been a great inspiration. First person I've actually subscribed to. So thank you for everything. Thank you. It means a lot.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Ask Charlie Anything 208: Fat Kids = Child Abuse? Afghanistan Alternatives? Is DCFS Abusive?
Since we've already won so many things, the House, the Senate, executive branch, the Supreme Court, we talk a lot about macroeconomics, a lot inflation, things that we can't control. What I'm wondering is how do we get the administration and Congress to prioritize and consider legislating a combined package of fiscal policies that address non-life essential costs of the typical American budget?
The Charlie Kirk Show
Ask Charlie Anything 208: Fat Kids = Child Abuse? Afghanistan Alternatives? Is DCFS Abusive?
For example, tackling the out-of-control property taxes across the country. There's a movement in several states that are doing that. Florida as well. Home insurance, property taxes make up almost the same amount as a mortgage in many cases. Interest rates and then also fixing the entire credit card industry is terrible in the way they're doing things. It's skewed against the consumer.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Ask Charlie Anything 208: Fat Kids = Child Abuse? Afghanistan Alternatives? Is DCFS Abusive?
And a lot of people can't get credit that probably should in the way they do it. So I'm thinking, like, how do we get down to kitchen table economics where they actually put together a bill that has direct impact on people's lives?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News in Panic Mode as Trump Plunges Markets
Seeing what you're seeing now, do you think prices will go up? I know we talk a lot about egg prices and you've seen them go down. The weekly average price just for white large shell eggs just went up 26 cents, but you are importing a number of eggs to meet the shortage. And there's like 328% for the month imported, almost 450% importing more than over a year ago.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News in Panic Mode as Trump Plunges Markets
And obviously some of that from Turkey and Mexico is hit by a tariff.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
It seemed like it was more of a resetting, a going back to zero in this situation. And so I just want to caution everyone I would say this to the media, but they're not going to listen. But I'll say this to all of you. I hate that this is true. We can't trust the press releases that come out of the White House anymore.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
We need to treat them like we would treat any other truth social posts, and I'm sure many of them are just dictated by Donald Trump like truth social posts. So when Donald Trump goes, runs out to spike the football, to announce a victory, to put something out there, your first kind of interpretation needs to be, okay, what is this propaganda? What am I looking out for?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I need verification before I believe this to be true. and you need to look at all sides of it. And so it's going to be a tough thing to approach in this administration, but it's going to be something we're going to have to readjust to, that these messages coming out of the White House are probably not true at all times.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
President Biden used to always say something, I think he even said it in the interview that you did with him, I'm paraphrasing, but something along the lines of, if America isn't there to lead the world, then who is?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Well, we're finding out who is, because during Donald Trump's plan to be, quote, America first, I say that with the utmost sarcasm, of course, what he is really doing is he is just, he's not putting America first, he's removing the United States from the conversation entirely. Once that vacuum is there, once that void is there, you know what? It needs to happen. Somebody needs to fill it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
So these countries that have previously been able to rely upon the United States as allies, as trading partners, you name it, they now need to find other sources for those things. And then China comes out with an outstretched arm and they say, hey, We're fans of you guys. How can we help? What can we do for you?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And these countries are more than happy to take their support, whether it's Mexico, whether it's Colombia. And I saw the messages being shared by these world leaders from China, by these ambassadors to the people of Colombia, to Mexico over these past few days. The United States of America under Donald Trump is already completely abdicating its leadership on the global scale.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And it's amazing how quickly, after Donald Trump decided to take office, that China now has this reemergence, this resurgence of power in the world that we have never seen before. I mean, think back to President Biden's presidency. It seems like a while ago. I know it wasn't that long ago. Under President Biden, remember,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
the pace of the American economy was growing faster than China's for the first time in over 40 years. That had never happened before. And that was because of President Joe Biden's steady hand, his global leadership, him bringing together these allies, his increasing the power of NATO, his investments in technologies like semiconductors.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Trump comes in, all of a sudden, China has like the top AI model. The entire industry is in collapse like overnight. Everything is kind of suffering. Our allies are going to China for help. China has established itself as a global leader. And it's just really, really stunning the long-term damage that Donald Trump is already doing in this short period of time.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I'll put it this way. The tech stocks in particular, because of this new Chinese development in AI, got hit really, really hard. That sector got absolutely destroyed on Monday in a big way. Again, NVIDIA, I could probably look it up now, but they lost incredible amounts of market share. Their stock went down nearly- 17%, nearly a trillion dollar market share in the tech industry.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Boom, poof, gone overnight because China released this DeepSeek. And why? I'll just explain it very briefly. This DeepSeek app, this new AI company that China did, first off, they developed it in like two months, which is like completely unheard of. And they did it with, I think, fewer than 200 employees and for something like $10 million.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I want to remind you, and I'll pull back up the screenshot of Donald Trump and this AI investment that the US was touting just last week with Sam Altman, who founded OpenAI, who does chat GPT. They were touting this investment by Sam Altman by these... tech companies of $500 billion in AI infrastructure.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Well, China just developed a platform, an AI platform that by all accounts, people are saying is better, more effective, more efficient, uses less computing power, requires less people to operate, requires you could do it on just gaming instead of those big graphics processors that Nvidia makes that people thought you needed these really expensive GPUs in order to conduct AI.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
They did it for like $10 million while the US is talking about this $500 billion investment, which now seems just absurd and ridiculous because you see how efficient that the Chinese are doing this right now. And the technology seems like leaps and bounds above what any company in the United States is doing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I mean, it's totally egg on the face of all the people who are involved in these AI investments because they were blinded by doing whatever they were doing that they didn't even see this coming. They just got completely sideswiped. And whether it's Sam Altman or Mark Zuckerberg, Or people like David Sachs, who's what Donald Trump's AIs are or cryptos are and all these people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I mean, they look like fools. They look like incompetent morons right now. They look like they are setting the United States back. If this is like the modern space race, China just leaped ahead of us. Leaped ahead of us. Donald Trump allowed it to happen. David Sachs allowed it to happen. Elon Musk allowed it to happen. Sam Altman allowed it to happen.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And then doing it open source, basically saying, check my work, you know, in a way. You could see the code for yourself. You could modify the code. That's what open source means. We're going to put the code out there. See it for yourself.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And all of these companies who have relied on AI as the foundation for their business models and these high-powered GPUs and everything looked at it and they went, oh, shit. oh, this is way better than what we're doing, way more efficient, way cheaper, like we're screwed.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And so there was panic in the tech industry, which I think is going to persist because now they got to catch up to what they're doing out there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Okay, I gotta tell you about this game-changing product I use before a night out with drinks. It's called ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol Probiotic Drink. Let's face it, after a night out with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. I used to feel like I had to choose between a great night out and a great next day, until I found ZBiotics.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Z-biotics produces an enzyme that breaks this byproduct down. Just remember, make Z-biotics your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. I won't lie, I was skeptical at first, but I gave it a shot before a night out with friends at our favorite spot downtown, and I could not believe the difference.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
So if you're unsatisfied for any reason whatsoever, they will refund your money. No questions asked. Again, that's zbiotics.com slash Midas and use that code Midas. That's M-E-I-D-A-S at checkout for 15% off. Cheers to feeling great tomorrow. This episode of the Midas Touch podcast is brought to you by Graza.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
This is going to destroy the tech industry. His comments alone, after the stock market today with those tech stocks losing a trillion dollars in value, to then go around when the thing that these AI companies, the companies like Nvidia, these companies rely on parts to build semiconductors. or they rely on getting the semiconductors.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And most of the semiconductors, despite all the investments that we've made and we've been making great progress, most of them still come from Taiwan and other places overseas, but mostly Taiwan. So if Donald Trump is now making it more difficult for those companies and more expensive, for them to get their hands on materials to make semiconductors or semiconductors.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
He is now giving China yet another massive leg up in this AI race. It's just so baffling. And what we're realizing kind of every day is that Donald Trump's like a fascist loser wind-up doll who has one thing programmed in him. You pull the string and he just goes, tariff. Tariff, tariff. And it's like all he knows how to say.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And so like no matter the situation, he comes up with the same solution, and I say that in quotes, to the problem. And it just ends up screwing United States businesses every single time or the United States consumer every single time. These are going to add up because yesterday –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Ben, the one thing that was crazy that I was showing you yesterday were these comments from MAGA influencers, comments from people like MAGA Mike Johnson and Fox, and they're all now trying to shift the propaganda. So the new lines are they're basically trying to put it in people's heads, starting with the MAGA people, that, you know what, higher prices are actually good.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Higher prices, that's patriotism right there. You got to pay some higher prices. That's America. Are you not American? You got to pay those higher prices. And it is just so obvious, this propaganda, and especially after the past four years where they blamed everything on President Biden. you know, they, they blame bird flu on president Biden. They blamed, uh, you know, COVID on president.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
They would, they blame everything that affected prices on president Biden. But now that prices are literally rising as a result of Donald Trump's direct actions, all of a sudden it's, it's patriotics, good stuff. This is exactly what America needs. So let me just show you like some of these comments, uh, that we saw, um, over the past couple of days. And these are just like a few of them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
There are plenty more than, uh, just this. Um, but we're seeing these comments from MAGA. I got a,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
got to find it's hard to produce and speak at the same time it's very impressive that you are able to do both um but i'm looking at them right here so here are some like the top mega influencers who you know these guys always support trump no matter what you know they're i'm sure they are group chats together coordinating stuff like this because their messages are always the same and here's like this gunther eagleman he writes i'd rather have lincoln riley alive than cheap colombian coffee
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
They're just acknowledging now that they're going to have higher prices. This person, Scott Pressler, who Ben has done numerous videos about, he did a lot of those get-out-the-vote efforts for Trump in Pennsylvania. He wrote, I'm willing to limit my coffee consumption if it means deporting criminal legal aliens for our country. I voted for safe streets and a secure border.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
This DC Drano character wrote, I think this guy was at, I think all these people are pretty much at all of Trump's inauguration parties today. You're at, wait, you're telling me all I have to do is pay an extra dollar for my coffee and all the illegals get deported. I'll take it. And so you see this new messaging kind of filling the MAGA ecosystem that high prices, we're great with high prices.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
We want high prices and MAGA Mike was asked about. So like any of the things that you're doing now, I, Are they going to target lower costs? Like, what's your plan here? Because this is kind of what you guys tried to run on, right? So what's going on here? Here's what Maga Mike had to say when he was asked about lowering costs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And, you know, it's obviously not just MAGA Mike, right? It's we started with the MAGA influencers. You got MAGA Mike. And of course, you need the propaganda arm. You need the state TV. You need Fox News and them pushing this sort of stuff. So let's hear what Fox had to say. Spoiler alert. They said, you know what? Maybe Americans should just be making their own coffee.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
They should be growing their own coffee beans.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Okay, let me just make it clear. As the resident coffee nerd, I just got to do a little fact check for Fox on this. More than 99% of the coffee consumed in the United States ain't from the United States. It's from Colombia. It's from Ethiopia and other places in Africa. A very small percentage. I think it's like 0.35% or something actually comes from the United States itself.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And so if you think that's going to be enough coffee to satiate Americans' coffee habits, take that argument to the people. Let's see how that works out for you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Today's episode is brought to you by Oli. Clean, fresh nutrition your dog needs in five incredible flavors they'll absolutely flip over. Feeding your pup real whole foods with minimal processing is one of the best choices you can make for their health. In fact, studies show that a perfectly portioned fresh food diet can extend your dog's life by two and a half years.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Who doesn't want more time with their best friend? Let me tell you about my pup Mochi. She's a bundle of energy and love, but finding the right food has always been a challenge. Either it's filled with all these questionable fillers or let's face it, she's a very stubborn shih tzu who is very picky about what she eats and has very high standards. But with Ali, that's all changed.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Their meals are made in US kitchens with fresh, carefully sourced ingredients and absolutely no harmful fillers or preservatives. Because Ali gently cooks their food and delivers it fresh, There's no need for shelf life extending preservatives, just clean, wholesome nutrition.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Oli offers five protein-first recipes like fresh beef with sweet potatoes, fresh turkey with blueberries, and fresh lamb with cranberries. Honestly, every time I open an Oli pack, I think, wow, is my dog eating better than I am? And let's be real, she probably is. Here's how it works. You take Ollie's 30-second quiz to tell them about your dog, their weight, activity level, and health needs.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And use that code Midas for 60% off your first box. Start your dog's new year off right with Ali.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
That's what the media was saying after President Biden issued pardons for people like Liz Cheney and other people on the January 6th committee and the officers who testified. And that was what had us here pulling our hair out going, are these people just like idiots? Are they doing this on purpose? What is their deal?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Because he has stated quite plainly throughout the campaign that he is going to make these people's lives hell. That at minimum, he will investigate them in order to bleed them dry financially. And at the worst case scenario, he literally wants to lock these people up who are just doing their jobs, following the law.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
But Donald Trump has stated for months and months, if not for years, that he wants to inflict retribution on his political enemies. So here we are. Donald Trump is now doing that against all these people. And I feel like the people who are criticizing President Biden for the few pardons that he did are silent on this issue, treating it like it's normal.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Sorry, I just had to jump in because it just enrages me so much.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And I want to remind everybody, too, that the CHIPS Act is like one of the most successful pieces of legislation from the Biden administration that people now from both parties acknowledge that is a very good piece of legislation. The CHIPS Act is what remember Mike Johnson was asked by a reporter. I believe he was in Buffalo. It was a Syracuse reporter who asked.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
who asked Mike Johnson about the Chips Act, and he said that he was going to get rid of it and immediately got a whole ton of backlash right away. Why? Because a lot of these factories that are building these chips are in Republican districts, Republican states. And so Mike Johnson got massive backlash.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
He very quickly came out with a statement saying, you know, pathetic Mike Johnson, typical empty vessel, soulless, tiny man saying, oh, I guess I didn't hear the question when it was asked. I didn't mean that. I I didn't hear the question classic Mike Johnson move, but he needed to back away from that line because the chips act is popular. It's helpful.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
It's bringing tons of jobs to the United States, and especially in Republican areas. And Trump's strategy here, it's so dumb. It's one of the reasons why we're already seeing the US lose the AI race so quickly into his administration. And as he does actions like this, the US is only going to fall further and further and further behind.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And those brologarchs, as you call them, Ben, these tech brologarchs, who are sucking up to Donald Trump and are spending all their time rather than focused on their companies, but hanging around Mar-a-Lago with Donald Trump. They're taking their eye off the ball while all these other countries overseas are completely dominating us with China leading the pack.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Not the tattoos make you look like bad people, but maybe.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I, you know, you know, I kind of feel like I entered the upside down. Nothing quite makes sense. But, you know, we're working through it. We're working through it, people. But here's the thing. When Donald Trump does all these crazy things.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Americans, like not even not even illegal immigrants or anything. You know, he's talking about sending Americans away. who are in jails instead of putting them in american jails deporting them to el salvador and putting in these prisons that's literally what trump said today and part of the one in one of these speeches
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
as these republican politicians just so brazenly go along with his most illegal actions the most important thing that we could all do as a community is hold the line and stay strong and not buckle to these authoritarians by the way the one thing that the media is absolutely failing at and a lot of politicians are completely failing at right now but if They're not going to protect us.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I mean, look. And for those wondering how to sign up, like when you go to MidasPlus.com, it'll just say like, what's your email? You put in your email, you're signed up. And you could see most of what we put on there just right off the bat.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
um including you know ron will paywall his uh daily recaps but you could still see a lot of them even get a taste for him and all that um they're really good they're honestly like the best bulletins of like if you just want to be like all right at the end of the day you know i'm not gonna i'm not gonna be watching the news all day but at the end of the day i just want to catch up on everything that happened those bulletins nobody does it better than ron on midasplus.com
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Ben, you know how I know the views are getting up and going out there and how this is reaching a lot of people? When MAGA starts targeting us with cyber attacks, that's when I know that this is really reaching a lot of people. That is a true thing that happened. You can read about it on MidasPlus.com. Something fun we got to deal with over the weekend.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Can we do tariffs? Does that help us? No.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
We need to be the ones here on guard, doing the work, putting it in every single day, calling out this BS, calling out the lies, calling out the propaganda, because it's right now at its largest level that we have ever seen. And not only that, we now have a complicit corporate media who parrots Trump's propaganda as the truth. And that's probably the most dangerous part of all.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
So we need to be beacons of the truth here. We need to be the protectors Of all of that, we need to be fighting back, and it's great to be able to do that with everybody here on the Might of Such podcast. Jordy, what's new on your end?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Coffee prices soaring, Ben. And that especially pisses me off as a coffee guy. Very, very upset about these coffee prices spiking right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Yeah, Arabica coffee beans reached their highest levels in history today because of this, and that's without the tariffs. So imagine if this fight continues to develop and Trump does impose the tariffs and the Colombian president does impose his tariffs. say that all happens, then you're going to see just a complete, a massive escalation in the prices.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
But we're already right now at the highest point. I mean, the previous highest point happened because of a bad harvest, like because the beans were destroyed in a bad harvest, not because of a self-inflicted wound by the president of the United States causing instability in these markets.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
And this is the one thing I want people to take out of this, because this was a fast moving situation yesterday. There was update. It And like Ben said, we still don't know exactly where this even quite landed out. But I'll say this. This is maybe page one of Donald Trump's playbook. It's like his go-to move every single time. And that is create a problem.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
create a fake solution to that problem, immediately spike the football and declare victory and have the messaging be that you solve some sort of problem that you created. And so I want to be clear about this as well. We have been doing deportations in this country forever. President Biden did a lot of deportations in this country. President Obama did a lot of deportations in this country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
I think even more than Trump, actually. But the difference here is that Trump is running into trouble with these deportations, his signature policy. He's actually the one president who's unable to actually execute these deportations. Why? Because he is going about it in this showy way where he is treating the people like they are not people. He is treating them inhumanely. He is shackling them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
He's putting them in cuffs. He's treating them like they are criminals and like they are garbage. And so these countries are rightfully offended to see citizens of their countries being treated in this sort of way. And so they are pushing back. So yesterday, as we saw this kind of story unfold, the first story was, it felt a little like the Colombian president had bent the knee a little.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
But when you looked into it, what he was really saying was, I'll send my plane because I want to watch over these people. I want to make sure you're not treating them like crap because these people deserve to be treated with dignity. Then he imposed the 50 percent tariffs on Trump, which are not in effect. I just want to be clear currently because they worked out this this deal.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Then there was all this chaos, this back and forth, the saber rattling between two leaders. And, you know, it just all basically back to zero at this point. But the thing that ended up happening was Trump immediately.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
Once he basically got the Colombian president to go back to what we were doing under President Biden, like the same things that we've been doing forever, just treat the people with dignity and you could send them here. When he got back to that, Trump spiked the football and the media ran with that instantly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
They treated Donald Trump's press release – by the way, many of his press releases didn't even spell the country of Columbia the correct way. They spelled it like Columbia University, like when he initially did his social media post with the press release on Truth Social and all of his people posted it and tweeted it out. But what you see here is the media initially grabs onto Trump's narrative.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS - 1/27/25
They then parrot that out. That becomes the story even before you heard the Colombian side of the story. And so when the Colombian president, when they released their statement, their statement was quite different than Donald Trump's statements. Didn't quite say that they agreed to all the things that Donald Trump said that they agreed to.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And he is taking down the Republican Party with him. And I think we are going to see massive ripple effects from all of this because these Republicans, they live in their bubble on Twitter or X or whatever. They're constantly reaffirmed these shitty things and that and they treat these people like crap.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
These hardworking Americans in the federal government, they treat them like crap and they either forget or are too dumb to realize that many of these federal workers don't actually work in D.C.,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
but they work in their own districts they work in their backyards they are actually their supporters so we are now seeing these republicans and these independents rising up and they are demanding action they are demanding that their representatives uphold their oath and these representatives have been kind of shocked by it and they've been giving the worst answers by the way just lying gaslighting but here's going to be my challenge to everybody out there
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
We know that these representatives, one of the reasons that they are so subservient to Donald Trump is that they are afraid of Donald Trump's supporters. I think we need to make these representatives afraid of us. I think that's going to be crucial to making change in this country. I think that involves peacefully protesting.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
I think that means peacefully showing up to these rallies and doing exactly what these patriotic Americans are doing in all of these various town halls, standing up to people. But you need to make these people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
not feel safe they need they should be scared of you every time they step into that town hall that you are going to challenge them they should be scared of you that you are going to take to the streets and peacefully protest them if they are going to strip away your rights your livelihood their job and i think that's going to be the key more than anything to bring putting our country on the right track
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
By the way, I want to emphasize, that was a crowd in Missouri, and the young girl had asked a question about guns, and that was the reaction that he got. These people think their beliefs are far more popular than they are, than they get out of their bubble, and that's the kind of reaction they got. I watched like a full hour of that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
um uh that town hall today the guy got booed the entire time um ruthlessly and and a smart crowd too smart audiences because when he would say that elon did all this waste fraud and abuse they would say well give me an example and he wouldn't be able to give an example and they go well if he actually if you actually believe that we should be routing out waste fraud and abuse like i do this is what the people would say like i do and i'm a registered republican they would say then why would you get rid of the inspector's general
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Why would you get rid of the people at all these offices whose job it was to target waste, fraud, and abuse? And why are you letting this unelected oligarch billionaire, Elon Musk, why are you putting this guy in charge of my personal information? And they have no response. We'll go through the rest.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Okay, real talk. I love food, but I do not love meal planning. Every week I do my best, but often reality hits, work, errands, exhaustion. Suddenly I'm eating leftovers for dinner again. But then I found Marley Spoon and I am officially a meal prep person. I can announce it right now. Not because I suddenly got my life together, but because Marley Spoon did it for me.
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This podcast is sponsored by Marley Spoon and I'm genuinely excited about it because it's helping me fast track my way to eating well without all that stress. And with our code Midas, M-E-I-D-A-S, you could get up to 27 free meals. Here's what I love. Marley Spoon gives you over 100 recipes to choose from every week. We're talking everything.
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Cozy comfort food like big batch beef stroganoff to lighter dishes like salmon and creamy mustard deal sauce tray bake. There's literally something for every single mood. And my absolute favorite recently, their beef noodle soup with bok choy. I made it last night. I had that moment where I just stared at my plate like, damn, I'm good.
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It looked incredible, smelled amazing, and more importantly, tasted like something out of a restaurant. And the best part, Marley Spoon just launched their new 15-minute express recipes. Yep, dinner in 15 minutes. So even on nights when I'm feeling extra lazy, I have zero excuses. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon.
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
They have so misread, I'll say, their quote unquote mandate that they think they had because they never had a mandate to begin with. Under 50% of the country actually ended up voting for Donald Trump. There never was a mandate. They acted like they got like 70% of the vote, and they pushed forward some of the most dangerous, damaging policies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And not only just major changes, but changes that uniquely affect people's personal lives. Like if you're going to position yourself as the party of small government, as the part of the party of
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
we're gonna leave you alone let you live your life and then all the sudden you are literally the guy responsible for somebody's mom or dad losing their job or someone's brother or sister losing their job all the crap that we are seeing losing their health care whatever it is then this gets real personal, real fast for folks. And that's what's happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
I think they've so overextended what they think they've had. I think the people are already turning on them. I mean, we showed that poll before. The approval for Elon Musk's actions was in the 20s. in that it was like 26% or something like that. That means that it's even digging into the MAGA people aren't liking what they are seeing, which is absolutely astonishing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Do you know how bad you have to be to have in the 20s approval for what you were doing? Now I think it's important that people blink a little bit, that what Elon is doing is what Trump is doing. And I think, you know, we got to be putting two and two together there. But we are seeing this outrage at all these town halls of people who are already fed up with what is going on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
I think when Trump doubles down on this sort of rhetoric, I think when they continue to insult hardworking Americans, federal employees, veterans. I think when they continue to take actions and tell Elon to be more aggressive with the 26% approval rating, I think this is all, this house of cards is going to continue to come crumbling down.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
People are going to be outraged as they are now, but to next levels. The anger is going to increase. You already feel it in the streets. You already feel it in these town halls. And I don't think they understand exactly what they're doing because I think they brainwash themselves with these algorithms as well. But they're in for a rude awakening right now. I'm telling you right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
I think that thing is the Gulf of America. I don't know. I guess that's it. Here's the thing, Jordy. They pick these dumb ass things like Gulf of America, right? They pick gold at Fort Knox. They do things that are just idiotic distractions, like kind of dangling the keys, as I've said in the movie Up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
you know score squirrel right they want to divert people's attention to some place to try to make them forget that they are robbing them blind that they are taking away their jobs but this is just too personal for people where that crap isn't working anymore it may work during a campaign but it doesn't work when reality hits and they tried this strategy once before when did they try it they tried it during the coven 19 pandemic they tried to tell everybody everything was okay
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
The numbers are going to go down to zero. We're all cool. We're all chill here. Everything's fine. But guess what? Eventually, reality catches up to their bullshit. And we're seeing that happen right now. Reality is catching up quick, very quick to what they are doing. And so those are the distractions, right? The renaming of the place, the Fort Knox. I mean, Fort Knox is audited like every day.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Every year. It's like ridiculous. Is he a national treasure? Is he Nicolas Cage now going to find the gold? It's just like he plays into people's kind of lizard conspiratorial brains. And then while he gets them distracted with, is there going to be gold in the vault when I open up the vault? Maybe I'll get used to it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
gold yeah maybe you give me some money maybe i give you some gold and meanwhile he's screwing people but but you know we're seeing people rise up and like i said before make these people scared make them scared everywhere they go with the facts with the truth peacefully but make them afraid of your voice the same way that they are afraid of mega people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
The Doge rebates, where Elon's basically saying, you know, when we actually find all this money, when we uncover all the fraud, waste, and abuse, guess what's gonna happen, folks? We're gonna give you checks of up to $5,000.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
All I got to say is you'd have to be like a complete idiot, right? Like just a total moron, idiot. Like whoever made that deal, Trump made it sound like that guy was a big fat idiot is all I'm saying.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
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Who could let them rob us blind like this?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Yeah, definitely not. Please, please leave them alone, Ben. You know, the reporter responded to that Pete Hegseth clip from the Department of Defense rapid response account. So silly that they have all these accounts, but whatever. I'll get to that in a second. But he wrote the following. To be clear, I asked why he selected a quote, underqualified nominee.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Dan Cain does not meet the legal requirements to be chairman and would need a waiver. Cain is a retired three star and will need to be brought back to service and then promoted in order to get the job. So that was the actual question that the reporter was getting at. They tried to do some sort of sick burn to get back to him. Didn't answer the question because what they're doing is indefensible.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
But I think their whole strategy as we see it is that they view reality as malleable. This has been the Donald Trump thing from back in 2016 and before. They view reality as just something that's an inconvenient thing that's in the way that we could change. We can mold public opinion, which is why they put such a emphasis on the propaganda.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And they view their propaganda as more important than the actual actions that they are taking. So the actual actions that they are taking are dangerous. They're incompetent. They are ruining people's lives. They could likely throw the country into a recession. We're probably going to see some dramatic job losses on future job reports. There's going to be mass unrest.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
We're already seeing prices skyrocketing. We're seeing all these horrible things, all these horrible things happening. But they think as long as we can control the narrative, especially online, we can control the populace, which is why they have all of these various accounts, rapid response for every department, and why they treat them like they are a MAGA influencer.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
By the way, I wouldn't even be shocked if they put one of those MAGA influencers in charge of these accounts, but they've given away the game in recent weeks, especially when you had Jesse Waters go the other day. I mean, he was like, it's... What? It's an asymmetrical war. We get it on Twitter. Elon boosts it. Then we talk about it on Fox. Then it's in the paper the next day.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
By the time they even catch up to it, guess what happens? We're already on to the next one. He admitted that on the air. That's the strategy that we've been telling you guys that they've been doing. But Jesse Waters just said it out loud that that is their strategy. The White House is employing the same strategy here, and we're going to see this over and over again, just lies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
That's why I'm urging you all, do not take White House comments, official White House statements, as the truth. If they say, Zelensky agreed to X, Y, and Z, don't believe it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
If they say, we just got a deal on this plate, do not believe anything you see unless you see it reported independently outside of them, unless you have confirmation from the other sides, because this whole operation, this whole house of cards relies on these propaganda platforms, which is why Elon Musk was willing to spend the amount of money he spent on Twitter.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
because they know that that is their one trick pony in order to have success here and by success they may i mean by controlling the people and pushing forward their horrific agenda and so you know i'm happy though that they were breaking through the propaganda right now we're breaking through the propaganda here with this network reaching more people we're breaking through the propaganda by seeing people take to these town halls take to these protests and we're gonna have to see more of it people are gonna have to be talking
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
People are going to have to be spreading the word and it's going to have to get personal for people and people are going to have to share their personal stories. You know, somebody asked me the other day, you know, on like a TikTok live that I was doing, they said, but I don't have like followers. So like if I went to a town hall and.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
that spoke, talked to my representative, no one's going to see it. I said, well, send it to me. And I want everybody to know that we got your back here at the Midas Touch Network. We want to be uplifting your voices. So if you go to one of these town halls and peacefully push back at your representative, We want to be the ones who help you get that out to the masses.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And we need everybody in this community. Anytime you see these stories of resistance out there to spread these stories, to show that there are people out there all across the country who are not okay with it, despite what social media wants to feed you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
usmca oh that idiot got it got it you know i said this in the last episode ben and by the way great to be with you guys great to be with everybody out there everybody listening and welcome to all of our new listeners um you know i said this to you last time we can no longer think about the united states of america as being the good guys and i said i understand we definitely weren't our
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
the good guys 100% of the time throughout history. But in many respects, we could always at least look to that guiding star and say that America is trying to be the good guys in the world, is trying to fight for democracy, is trying to uphold our values at the very least, that that is the direction we are headed.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
I mean, honestly, I think at the end of the day, when we look back on Doge, hopefully we all get out from under this, and I do believe we will be able to.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
I think we're going to see that Doge was a massive net negative on the United States of America, that it destroyed the United States' productivity, that it destroyed, obviously, jobs, and that it actually ended up costing the country more for this ridiculous vanity project that nobody asked for.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Now, we have made a sharp turn towards autocracy, towards authoritarianism, and Europe right now knows that they cannot trust the United States to be a reliable ally, if an ally at all.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And so I think that's why it's important that Emmanuel Macron thought that it was important to come and sit down next to Donald Trump just like that and instantly fact check and humiliate Donald Trump on these issues, putting forward the actual facts as to what is going on. And that's why we're seeing these coalitions building across the across the world right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Let's look at the bright side though, Ben. I think that puts you next in line to run Department of Defense under the next Democratic administration. Yeah.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
that are against the United States. Essentially, the world is saying to the U.S., oh, you want to be isolationists? You don't want to have anything to do with the world order that has existed since the end of World War II that has left the world in relative safety? You don't want to be a part of this anymore? You don't want to be a part of this? Guess what? We're going to kick you out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
You know that it is terrifying them when they see these sorts of actions because they're trying to get out in front of it and discredit the protesters now. I'm not sure if you've seen some of the messages that people in MAGA have been posting online, but they're like, no, this can't be real.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
that's a Republican area, those are definitely just Democratic activists, or they would say Democrat activists who are just invading these spaces to yell, da, da, da. They can't let people realize that, oh, there are other people like me out there who have these strong feelings, who hate what is going on right now, who despise what Donald Trump is doing, what Elon Musk is doing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
So they need to act like this is some sort of fake thing. That shows you that it's getting to the heart of everything, because like I said earlier, Their entire operation is not a governing operation. It's a propaganda operation. And these things that pierce through the bubble, quite literally in these red bubbles across the country, are the biggest threat to them imaginable.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Their voters rising up, people hearing from them. and make your voice heard if for those of you who have ever said listen i am a blue dot in a red district or a red state what can i do well if you have a friend or two and you want them for a support group go and bring them to a town hall with you and make your voice heard um this is how we're going to be able to change things here this is
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
Same way Midas is a people powered movement. We need a people powered movement out there on the streets every single day, pushing back, rising up. And that's what we are seeing. And I want to see a whole lot more of it. Make them afraid.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
We're not going to rely on you then. We're going to form our own version of NATO without you, I guess, is what the likely new German chancellor was saying yesterday. We're not going to... We're going to have to get used to a NATO-less world. We're going to have to make our own organizations. We're going to have to figure out our own plan. The United States is not going to be involved in it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
If the U.S. wants to hang with Kim Jong-un or Vladimir Putin or whatever, do it. Do whatever you want. But the free world is going to stick up for the rest of the free world, whether the United States wants to be a part of it or not.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And so we are seeing right now this resistance from overseas as well of all these world leaders getting together to actually push back and showing that, by the way, Europe, the EU is bigger than the United States. They have more people. They have more things. They could actually push back if they remain united.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And I think they are realizing that they actually have to in the wake of Donald Trump's actions, especially over these past few days. Always what's new.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
It reminds me of when a corporation does stock buybacks and then ends up laying off a whole bunch of employees. That's kind of exactly what we're seeing, but in the government. And that's why I know people have often said stuff like, the government should be run by like a business and Donald Trump's a businessman. Well, no, it actually shouldn't. There are reasons that it's not.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And these are all vital jobs to keeping our country going. And when you get rid of these jobs, you are not really doing anything to the budget whatsoever. It's probably costing more for just Doge to exist. Then also think about all the litigation that's going to come from this. And we'll get into some of the litigation later in the show.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
But these lawsuits are going to end up costing the government lots of money. And I'm willing to bet that the lawsuits from these employees who have been illegally fired is actually going to cost the US government substantially more than these mass layoffs. Plus, there's, of course, the economic effect of taking away people's livelihoods who are then injecting that money
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
into the economy, supporting their families, sending their kids to good schools. You're ripping people's lives away from them in the cruelest way imaginable. And you are treating them like dirt. The way they are treating these people is just absolutely appalling to me. But the thing that gives me a little bit of hope right now is I'm looking around the whole country even in these red districts.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/25/25
And I am seeing people speaking out. I am seeing people who are already fed up. You know, I saw James Carville the other day. He said, you know what? The Trump administration is already collapsing. And he predicted like a full-on collapse within 30 days, right? I agree with him that the Trump administration is collapsing. When you look at these poll numbers, it's absolutely devastating for Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
By the way, I think you say his name Yamas, but I'm going to allow the – I say it. I'm going to allow the mispronunciation because of his disrespect to our – but here's something else though. I mean, you got to remember, right? NBC is the reason why Donald Trump is president. It's just a fact.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
NBC built this mythical persona of Donald Trump which is not reflective of reality by creating The Apprentice, by editing Donald Trump to look a certain way, by putting this image into people's minds of him as a successful businessman even when the facts do not match that to say the least. And so NBC is the reason for all this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And I think they get a pass, you know, because they have MSNBC and people think that's like, you know, a network that is on their side. The truth is, none of these corporate networks are on your side. Like, it's just it's just the fact it's not to say that there aren't people I, you know, I think do great work at these networks like there certainly are.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
But all these corporate structures are all designed to just make as much profit as possible. And they've done so by building up some really villainous people, including Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
How about the fact that Trump is maybe like the only president to not actually have his hand on the Bible while he was being sworn in? Noticeably forgot to do that part despite all of the talk that he has out there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
Everything he was doing was so petty. I mean, the inauguration speech was – I think we all expected it to be dark. I mean, this is the guy who –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
uh led the first time with american carnage and this was a version of american carnage um and the speech was not a speech that a president gives it was a speech of a very petty very small very tiny individual very vindictive uh the opposite of gracious uh just absolutely disgusting from start to finish
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
felt more like a trump campaign rally at its most deranged than a president of the united states actually taking the oath of office and those immediate actions uh relating to millie are a perfect example of that trump's comments about nancy pelosi um where he said that she's a criminal i mean he said that nancy pelosi is guilty and that she's committed criminal offenses
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
It shows you the vindictive nature and the presidency of retribution that we are about to see. And that's why I get so frustrated by the media's endless bashing of Biden to the very end. And I'm sure they're going to continue to speak about this too over the next few weeks because once they get started on a Biden topic, they can't shut up about it. They need to talk about it all the time.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
Of course, not the accomplishments, just, you know, when they want to hate on it. And so obviously, President Biden today did his last minute pardons. He pardoned members of his family and he pardoned the January 6th committee. He pardoned the officers who spoke at the January 6th committee and. The media was very vicious on Biden for this. They were like, oh, yes, we get to attack him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
How dare you? And I saw some other kind of online networks and stuff rush to be like, this is disgusting. How can you be pro-democracy and do this? What a vile person. What a vile thing to do. How dare you, Joe Biden? At a certain point, you have people who are like, why is President Biden, why is he treating Donald Trump like a normal person?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
Why is he even meeting him with grace, inviting him into the Oval Office, shaking his hands, having tea with him in the morning? Why is he doing that? And President Biden is a guy who believes in tradition. He believes in the office. And we asked him about that. He explained it to us in Ben's interview with him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
But then he goes and he does the things that actually show that he does view this incoming Trump administration as a threat, that it's not just bluster, that it's not just campaign rhetoric.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And when you see President Biden issuing these last-minute pardons to people like Liz Cheney, to people like the other people on the January 6th committee, the officers, his family, et cetera, you can't help but feel –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
That's like an ominous very ominous thing and that President Biden is doing that because he, I think rightfully expects the absolute worst from this incoming administration, and he wants to while he has the power, he wants to protect those people who actually stood up and defended our democracy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
rather than look back and see the Trump administration at the very least bleed these people dry, torture them for the rest of their lives in legal paperwork and money and bills, destroy their lives because that's what Trump's plan was here. And so President Biden goes, I have a way that I'm going to prevent this harassment.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
i'm going to prevent this these acts of retribution i'm going to take it and then in the same day while you have all these media networks yelling at biden for doing this by the way i hate that biden had to do it i hate that he had to do it and i had mixed feelings on the idea of doing it because none of these people are guilty these are all patriotic americans who serve their country in the best way possible but i understand a hundred percent why he does it but while president while the media is bashing biden
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
What is Donald Trump saying? He is calling the people who Biden did not issue pardons to criminals. He is hinting that he is going to prosecute them. He is carrying out his retribution against people like General Milley, who President Biden did pardon in other ways by removing his painting. So you're seeing the actions of retribution. You're seeing the rhetoric.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
You are seeing even all these officials in the Republican Party. And I saw their tweets even last night. Some of these Republican Congress people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
tweeting like buckle up democrats we're coming for you you better lawyer up we're about to bring the hell of the legal system on you you put it all together you have to realize that what we're dealing with here is serious it's not just rhetoric we have to take donald trump at his word when he says that he is going to enact retribution
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
on his political enemies and so president biden did take him on his word and honestly like enough of the media jumping on every single move i wish i wish president biden did not have to do any of this and it makes me sick that he had to do it it doesn't make me feel good that he had to do it but i completely understand the need because these are not normal times and i don't understand why these networks cannot accept that fact it is maddening
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
doing well it's great to see everybody um you know very dark day certainly but i want to thank um everybody out there for joining us earlier today for the puppy and kitten inauguration and we opted as a network here to not air the inauguration live um and we opted instead to go head to head with the inauguration with some counter programming with some puppies and kitties.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And then that evolved into having some cute goats and pigs and a bunch of all sorts of animals. And you all submitted your animals. But even more importantly than that is that this incredible community raised more than $80,000 for the Humane Society, who they're doing incredible work helping animals affected by the fires here in Los Angeles. I want to thank you all.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
I mean, that was beyond our wildest expectations. We set our initial goal at $10,000 saying, you know, maybe we'll be able to raise $10,000. Wouldn't that be incredible? And then we had to keep increasing the goal. And you could see that we have it going during this live as well. People could still donate to the Humane Society.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
They treat it like a joke. I saw the way they reported it. They were like, oh, look at this wacky dude. It's a meme. He's selling it. I mean, it's, in my opinion, pretty clearly a scam, what we're seeing. And we're just seeing corruption and scams and grifts at their highest levels that we've ever seen in our entire lives. And just the message this sends in so many different ways.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
First off, Ben, I agree. I think crypto is obviously here to stay. And I think that there are folks out there who want crypto to be viewed legitimately. These meme coins do everything but that. These meme coins delegitimize the entire cryptocurrency industry. But people, like the people who are standing behind Donald Trump at the inauguration today, love this because it's completely unregulated.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
They can move money around basically secretly in large sums of money and transfer wealth and create fake wealth out of nothing, despite having zero benefit to the economy whatsoever. It's also got to be just...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
We figured why not just leave it going for whoever else wants to donate. But thank you for turning what was a dark day, bringing some light to it here, doing it for a good cause. And we're very grateful. That being said, we got to report the news. We got to stay on top of everything. And we need to make sure that we are all prepared for what's ahead.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
Honestly, I know we're so far past this point, but just think of kids growing up today and in the past when you tried to teach a kid the value of a dollar and that you work hard, you make money, and then you see these people who they may look up to basically scamming their way into becoming billionaires overnight with these get-rich-quick schemes. Do you think they're going to value...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
actually working hard and trying to contribute to our society? Or are you going to create this whole new generation of people trying to grift and scam their way to the top and do what people like Elon do, what people like Vivek, like Trump? They're going to view it in that mold. They're going to think that this is how you gain success. And quite frankly, at this moment in time, they're right.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And I think that the issue is that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
the president biden the former sec all them they just wanted to regulate these industries like ben was saying before but the reason why these oligarchs who are hanging around donald trump like them and it's not just because you you know you know the stock market's up they've had record profits over the past few years like they should love them but now all of a sudden
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
they're getting a green light to just smash through any regulate regulations don't exist anymore rules don't exist anymore they could just become richer and richer and richer and screw regular people over with no consequences and they appreciate having that ability having that open season as long as they're nice to donald trump they get to do whatever the heck they want and we see that with this tick tock situation as well with the ceo of tick tock
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
the way he was sucking up to donald trump as we saw this entire tick tock situation emerge where tick tock decided that they were going to go dark um before donald trump took office after uh you know the ceo had had a meeting with donald trump recently and was at the inauguration today and of course the it was a bipartisan bill that had banned tick tock actually this started of course back in 2020 when donald trump wanted to ban tick tock not for national security reasons donald trump wanted to ban tick tock because tick tockers were being mean to him
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And TikTokers, remember, they reserved all the seats that Tulsa, Oklahoma rally, and Trump gave a rally in front of like an empty crowd during his 2020 campaign. So Trump was butthurt by that. And he decided that he was going to ban TikTok because his feelings were hurt. And, you know, there certainly are actual national security implications of TikTok.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And when this Ukraine funding bill was coming and the Republicans were holding it hostage and saying, no, we're not going to fund Ukraine, ultimately Republicans put into this bill
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
this i would call it a poison pill but it didn't end up poisoning the bill but they put in this tick tock ban in this bill so if you want ukraine aid then you also got to vote for this tick tock ban that's how this all started and i think a lot of people forget about that are democrats on the hook for this also yes 100 but at the end of the day also more republicans did vote and end up voting for this and uh the bill passed uh tick tock was under this ban and divest they took a very firm stance that they were not going to divest
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
which quite frankly, and as someone who enjoys TikTok a lot and likes the app and thinks it's a great place for expression and small businesses and creators, I do think it's quite suspicious that TikTok refused to dish off the algorithm to an American company when it would have enriched them a lot. I think that speaks a little to their intention.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And so I'm excited to go through the news with you. And on that note, I'll turn it over to Jordi.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
But then to pull this and run around to try to put... held Donald Trump as a savior in order to curry favor with Donald Trump and save the business. To me, that was, it made me feel almost dirty going back on TikTok and seeing those messages that they had basically just fawning over Donald Trump, playing to Donald Trump's ego in a way that I thought was quite manipulative
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
You know, and quite frankly, just straight up propaganda coming from China through to TikTok in order to heap praise on Donald Trump because her adversaries certainly know how to, you know, how Donald Trump operates. So we saw these messages on TikTok.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
um that were just fawning over uh trump like the first one um saying that uh tick tock has been banned and unfortunately this means you can't use it we're fortunate that president trump has indicated that he will work with us on a solution and then when it came back um not even 24 hours later they said as a result of trump's efforts tick tock is back in the us you can now do all the things you love well trump wasn't in office yet
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
President Biden had already told them that he wasn't going to act on any sort of enforcement for this law. Trump had already said that he wasn't going to do anything for TikTok. So they just tried to give Trump this kind of savior complex, give him this win for no reason other than to just try to save their company and to just manipulate the public in this very kind of devious way.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
The funny thing that I've noticed, because I'm on TikTok quite a lot, I post a lot on TikTok, follow us there. I like TikTok as a platform, I do. But the TikTokers I think were a bit smarter than they were anticipating. And the TikTokers are pushing back and they see the open propaganda. And I know a lot of them are disgusted.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And so a lot of the people, the TikTok creators I know have also taken kind of brief hiatuses from TikTok and protest. One of the funny memes that have been going around TikTok are people praising President Obama for saving TikTok just as an FU to the owner of TikTok and to Trump to say, thank you, President Obama, for saving this because it's just so ridiculous, obviously.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And so you see this sort of resistance happening on that app as well. But this is what the birth of this presidency has brought us. just endless scams, endless grifts, endless psychological operations. It's all designed to confuse.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
At the end of the day, it's all designed to make those people who sat behind Donald Trump at this inauguration and the people like them and the people who work with them, the oligarch class, the billionaire class, it's all designed to make them richer. It's all designed to take away
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
The things that are designed to protect you, the laws that are designed to protect you, the regulations that are designed to protect you, all under the guise of freedom, right? They're going to use the iconography. They're going to use the language. Oh, we need more freedom here. We're going to need less regulation. Look past the BS.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
Look past, as Ben says, the weapons of mass distraction and look at what Donald Trump is actually doing. Look at what these people around him are actually doing because their actions, sure as hell, speak a lot louder than their words on all these issues.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
NBC liked that clip so much also that they put it on their social media accounts. They were proud of that. The clip we just played was from their TikTok. So they reported the inauguration in that way. And then they were like, this is great. This is gold. Let's now post this on our social media account because this is what folks have to be seeing right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And it's just such an indictment of the media as it stands right now. And I think one of the most disheartening things that we've seen in this sort of Trump 2.0 era has been the – immediate capitulation. And that is honestly even putting it nicely to call this capitulation of all the powerful people who you would expect to be actually pushing back against people like Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
So whether it is the the owners of corporations and companies who have employees that they should be worrying about protecting and policies and values that they claim to uphold, or whether it's the fourth estate, the corporate media, whose job quite literally it is to hold people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
like Donald Trump and those in power accountable, or whether it's those like TikTok, you know, all these various people. You see this just complete and utter capitulation to Donald Trump. And right now, there are very few voices out there who are standing strong, who remain unafraid of to actually report what's going on, unafraid to actually counter and challenge this incoming administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And that's why independent media is so crucial at this time, because on the other side, you have the NBCs of the world, the ABCs of the world, the Washington Post of the world, you name it, who have just completely bowed down to fascism.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
And they used to call it FU money, right? Like, they used to be like, I want so much money. I want FU money. What's FU money if you can't say FU? Like, I don't understand.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
The hat seems quite strategic though, if you look at it. Because Trump here in this picture that we're showing from this video clip, Trump tried to greet Melania with a kiss on the cheek. As he got within proximity of Melania, the hat acted as a blocker, blocking Trump, so he had to give this air kiss.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS on Day 1 - 1/20/25
Yeah, yeah. Perhaps it was strategic from Melania to ensure that there was at least about eight inches of separation at all times.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Yeah, and Trump, you know, sent like overnight something like 14 posts bragging about his appearance at the Daytona 500, not a single post about any of the disasters. And, you know, from what I hear also, like, I'm not sure they're doing the individual assistance either that people have become accustomed to in the past with these storms.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Remember, it was always the thing, the propaganda move that the Trumpers would always latch onto would be the whole concept of, oh, Biden is only giving the people of North Carolina $750. What the hell? That's it? I'm sending X amount of dollars to Ukraine, and you're only giving them $750? That was the law passed by Congress for immediate assistance for FEMA.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Well, guess what Donald Trump's doing? Apparently giving them $0, nothing, nothing, zero. Because when you go to the website right now for FEMA and you try to apply for individual assistance in these effective areas, it doesn't allow you to.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And so congrats, I guess you went from 750 to 770 with the law at the beginning of the new year and now it's down to zero and no one's gonna talk about that, right? These right wingers aren't gonna talk about that. In fact, Donald Trump wants to dismantle FEMA entirely. rather than actually use it to actually help the people in these places.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And then just the nerve of the gaslighting and the propaganda just with all these events is going to be so ratcheted up. But I think we're gonna continue now in these next few years. And I know that sounds like an eternity,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
But we're going to continue to see the divide right now between the hyper online kind of Trumpers on Twitter who are amplified by like Elon Musk's algorithms and actual real people in the world who have a true hatred for Trump and are being affected by him in their daily lives, including people who voted for him. Like the Elon Musk, the Twitter, that's always going to be the same.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
But I think sentiment and we're already seeing it is going to continue to shift. The shift with Gen Z, Ben, is one of the most wild things that I've seen. Like you see right before the election, Gen Z sentiment about Donald Trump like spike, spike. That's when Trump was on all those podcasts. He was out there post-shooting, all that stuff. Trump Gen Z spiked. After the election, plummeted.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
like like like bottoming out and going down quickly. And I think it's just an interesting dynamic. And it's also enlightening to kind of look at a new generation as well and see what their behavior patterns are. And I think we're seeing Gen Z appears to be pretty reactionary. And and they tend to you know, they didn't know the Donald Trump of four years ago or eight years ago.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
They didn't grow up with that. Now they're getting to see what a Trump presidency actually looks like beyond the bluster, beyond the actual campaigning. And guess what? They don't like it. They don't like that all these advances that Biden actually made for them are now being taken away, whether it be student debt relief or whether it be these policies that they actually care about.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
I think they actually care about equality at the end of the day. I think they actually care about prices. And they thought that Trump wasn't lying when he said all those things. And now it's all just coming out to be just a total fraud.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
JD Vance completely humiliated himself on the global stage and the entire country, quite frankly. And the reception that he got, I've heard from other people also just in Europe that it was viewed just so negatively that people were mocking him, that people were deriding him, that it was like it's being talked about as if it were like one of the worst speeches ever given over there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
like of all time, and is also just incredibly offensive, like to show up in someone's country, criticize them. Note, they never really have any criticism for Russia or any of our adversaries, but it's always attack Europe, attack these people in charge.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And so it's just like, it's a weird new dynamic that we are seeing, but we've talked about this alliance of the autocrats overseas before here, and that's exactly what we're seeing play out right here. And I'm just gonna say, JD Vance has zero right to lecture anybody about free speech whatsoever.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
I don't know how these right-wing MAGA people took this mantle of being the free speech party when they are absolutely anything but it. They are literally the opposite of that, but they just want to be able to say racial slurs all the time and not get in trouble for it, so they call themselves the free speech party. It's such bullshit when you actually just break it down.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Think about any kind of comedy show, any TV show, any musician who has tried to get canceled over the past few years. It's usually Republicans on the side of doing the canceling. Even just over the weekend, last night they did the SNL 50, and they did a sketch with Tom Hanks, where Tom Hanks played a MAGA character named MAGA Doug.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
By the way, a character who he played in 2016, it was on their Black Jeopardy sketch, MAGA got so offended. They were crying about this all night and day. I've seen dozens and dozens of tweets saying that NBC should be arrested, they should be arrested, that Tom Hanks isn't a good actor, that this is vile, they should be taken off the air, no one watches anyway.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And you're like, okay, so who are the snowflakes? You're getting mad about MAGA Doug? That's your whole thing? And then while you have them getting mad about cultural things like that, you have Elon Musk, who's working in our government, actually threatening news organizations with jail time because they're reporting on things he doesn't want them to report on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
So we saw Elon Musk, even just within the past 24 hours, he had a irony of two tweets back to back. The first was like, I want to see if I could find it. The first tweet that he wrote was something along the lines of, let's see, here it is. There's something along the lines of like one of Hitler's first moves was to push, was to purge like the free speech. Here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
One of the first things Hitler did upon gaining power was apply aggressive censorship. So he did that. 20 minutes later, 20 minutes after sending that tweet, he sends this tweet. 60 minutes are the biggest liars in the world. They engage in deliberate deception to interfere with the last election. They deserve a long prison sentence.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Just think about those back to back tweets and then just get, you know, this isn't some random dude. This is a guy who is making major decisions about our government, even if the Trump administration wants to lie to courts about what he's actually doing. He is obviously very intimately involved. He's also
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
threatening basically all the politicians in our country and kind of blackmailing them in many ways. He's holding his money over them, threatening that if they step out of line in any way and don't go along with everything they're doing, he's going to throw all their money at primary challengers and things like that. So you have these Republicans who are running scared.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And it just speaks to the problem, honestly, with money in our country, money in our politics. If you think about it, You know, just allowing money to be in our politics in the way that is being used right now is going to go down in history as the worst decision ever.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
The Citizens United decision is going to, if it hasn't already yet, and this is something that back in the day, President Obama warned against, like, a lot, and he sounded the alarm.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And he was definitely vindicated in sounding the alarm about this decision because it's let the oligarch class, it's let people like Elon Musk use their money to dictate our elections, to control the outcomes, and to threaten our politicians. And I don't think that was ever how this was supposed to work in this country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
have reached an all-time high. What's your administration's egg prices have reached an all-time high?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Wait, wait, wait, wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it. Ah. Ah. No.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
I guess I should say what I'm doing so the audio listeners don't just hear me making rollercoaster noises.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
A fairly quick read. It was like a five and a half or six minute TikTok. It was literally listing all of Donald Trump's failures. This is one of the biggest self-owns, this document that I have seen in a while.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
I was going to say, Ben, if I saw this, if I saw this on Twitter or social media, I would just assume right off the bat they got hacked. Because this is how the hacks look. This person got hacked. Clearly a fake. Clearly somebody just scamming people. But it's stunning that this is now a legitimate thing that I guess all these MAGA leaders have to do. They all have to grift off their followers.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
So now you have the Argentinian leader, Malay, basically doing what Donald Trump did. And now he's embroiled in this massive scandal in his own country. There could be impeachment hearings now on him out there because people are furious. People lost their money. It's just like...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Receipts are more important than ever, especially when we have this disinformation echo chamber that's pumping out lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. I think it's important that we all flood the zone with the truth as they flood the zone with shit to steal a phrase from Steve Bannon. It's never been more important. So I appreciate you kicking off the show that way.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
The fact that people throughout the world right now don't realize that they are being rug pulled by these greedy, grifty leaders just baffles me. How do you fall for this con? Do we have the video of this goofy dude, Brett, this Hayden Davis?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
That's one of the most batshit things. It's the first time I've actually watched the clip through. That's one of the most batshit things I've ever seen in my life. And by the way, if you're listening to this right now, try to check out the video podcast because you've got to see what the guy looks like also. It just brings the whole thing together.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Jody, all I'm saying is that people should watch the video and make their own judgments about this individual. I'm not passing judgment. I'm saying you watch this. I don't think that leaders of countries should have rug pull crypto advisors. And has any of these meme coins ever worked out? Has anybody ever been like, I'm really happy I invested in that hawk to a coin. That was a smart move by me.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And the truth is, is that that is cutting through right now, as we're seeing in this polling that we'll go through and in some more detail in a little bit. But it's really interesting to see the dynamics already shifting. And you see that the people are now rising up. And I know corporate media doesn't really want to cover like the protests and stuff that's going on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
By the way, this is the crap that the Biden administration was trying to stop, by the way. When they try to act like the Biden administration Democrats are anti-crypto, there may be people who are anti-crypto, but they weren't anti-crypto, like the Biden administration and top Democrats on this issue. They were anti-doing this. They were anti-scamming people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
They wanted sensible regulations the same way that all markets have sensible regulations to prevent people from being scammed like this. And now we have a president who, and these presidents across the world now who are in alliance with him, I guess, who are now using scam tactics in order to steal money from people. I mean, it's the craziest. That video is out of control.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
small i think one of the interesting things though is seeing like how the rest of the free world is reacting to the united states because we have our propaganda centers here and let's not get it twisted i mean this is full-on state propaganda what we have right now we have these billionaires owning these social media networks controlling the flow of information uh we have um fox and oan and newsmax and all these channels the corporate media isn't much better to be honest it's a full we're in like a a
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
a country that is state TV country right now. But when people like J.D. Vance and Donald Trump, when they go overseas and actually have to speak in front of people who haven't been infected by this disease, they look and sound freaking nuts because they are. And like the comparison I made when I was talking to Ben the other day, I said, you know what it reminds me of?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
You know, it's always sunny in Philadelphia, this show. You guys, anyone who watches us watch It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, there may be a small sliver of overlap there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
but it's and it's always sunny in philadelphia when they're crazy in the bar it's one thing and they feed off their crazy energy right once they leave the bar and it's always sunny and go into the real world that's when the real pandemonium breaks out and that's when the differences between their crazy and the actual normal world come to a head and i feel like donald trump and jd vance are living this it's always sunny in philadelphia kind of
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
There are also massive protests today throughout the entire country. President's Day protests of voters, of Americans, concerned Americans going out there protesting the Trump administration, protesting Doge. So I want to I'm just standing in solidarity with all those protesters. And I think we are seeing the American people now rising up. We are seeing even people who protest.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
these episodes where they then go overseas and they look like animals, like they look like just psychopaths to these countries. Then they don't get applauded. Everyone gets offended because they're just like lunatics. When that propaganda structure isn't there, when they don't have Twitter to rely upon and all these various things, it really, it's an emperor has no clothes situation.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And those clothes come off like very quickly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
voted for Donald Trump, who weren't maybe following the election super closely and just heard the lies that we were showing just before. Now they're seeing the reality. It's one thing to blame and just to say, this person sucks, that person sucks, this person's a disaster, this thing's this person's fault, that person's fault. Once you're in charge, you don't get that luxury to be able to do that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
People on Twitter. Posting that on Twitter is also the way to get like the most batshit crazy conspiracy theorists. You know, who are Elon's people with this sort of stuff?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Trump fought all the way to the Supreme Court to not release his taxes. And now he has Elon Musk and his people going from the chair. Rummaging through your financial data, rummaging through your bank accounts and all this stuff. And then there's the fiasco that happened late last week where he fired like 350 people at the Nuclear Security Administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And it turns out they're like the people who work on our most sensitive nuclear weapons and warheads and things like that. And then they were told after the fact, like, those are the people who like handle our nukes. And they were like, oh, shit, really? And then they tried to contact them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
And then they realized they didn't have their personal contact information because they shut off their email addresses. And then they had to rush to try to rehire them back. They rehired like all but I think 28 people back. And like we were saying earlier in the episode, the jobs like that also, they're not like jobs in D.C. per se. Like a lot of those jobs, 30% of them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Yeah, Ronnie Jackson District, Amarillo, Texas. And I think 30% of the people fired were from there. And they work on our nuclear warheads. And so they had to desperately work to get them back. And it's the thing with this whole Doge scam that they're pulling on people. Do you want a more efficient government? Yes. I think everybody should want a more efficient government.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
It's stuff that we pushed here in the past also. Could government agencies all be audited? Sure. That doesn't bother me whatsoever.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
should just decisions be being made without even looking into what the issues are absolutely not should you just turn off the lights on people fire people fire all probationary employees when a lot of those probationary employees are a either new hires who are going to be the future of these administrations or b are people who recently got promoted so technically could be like your best people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
who just got promoted and are on a probationary period. Now you're going to get rid of them. There's no thought being put into this. I know there's that Silicon Valley phrase that's something like move quickly and break stuff. And that's how they do things in Silicon Valley. But it's one thing when you do it on Twitter and all of a sudden you have trouble sending a DM.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
The buck stops with you. whether Donald Trump wants to admit it or not. So he needs to take responsibility for everything that is going on. And I think it is up to the people to hold him accountable and to hold him responsible. And I know that's what we're going to do here every single day. Jordy, what's new on your end? Liking that outfit, looking good today.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
It's another when you fire the people who are overseeing our nuclear weapons arsenal. I'm not okay with breaking stuff when it comes to that. How about investigate, do the research and then fine tune it. That's how this sort of operation should be. And it's not what we're seeing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
Yeah, you got very angry. Your dog's very angry about what's going on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
It's a pattern that we've now been seeing a lot, I think, honestly, throughout knowing Donald Trump in general as a politician in this country, but especially in these first two weeks of his first few weeks of his new administration. You know, I know in the beginning we were starting to call this the rug pull presidency. I think that certainly still applies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
I'm going to add one more name to this presidency, and I'm going to call it the paper straw presidency. Because what I think Donald Trump is doing is a whole lot of symbolic actions that get people's kind of lizard brains going, whether it be the Daytona 500, driving the beast, flying Air Force One, whether it be, yeah, let's change Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America, America, F yeah, let's go.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
whether it's the plastic straw bans, all that sort of stuff plays to people's kind of lizard brains in a way, but isn't doing anything to actually help people's lives. While he's doing all that stuff, he's raiding the government, he's having his Elon Musk lackeys go through your social security accounts, go through...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
your Medicaid, go through your tax filings, your bank account info, all this stuff. He's trying to pass laws or bills to give $4.5 trillion in tax cuts to the billionaires, to the richest Americans. By the way, in that tax proposal that right now Republicans are kicking around, no tax on tips, that's nowhere to be found in it. What were some of the other policies? No tax on social security.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
None of that's there, but you know what is there? Massive tax cuts for billionaires. But guess what? You get to say Gulf of America now. You get to say, yeah, it's the beast, the paper straw presidency. That is what I am seeing so far. And I think in this concept is that concept of all bark, no bite. But I think the important thing is, is that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
um even though it is a paper straw presidency that those actions and the stupidity of his actions especially when it comes to the global stage have real world ramifications as we continue to see like i'm not sure if uh the audience out there saw any of that canada usa game But you saw Canada, once again, booing. Some of our Canadian viewers say, we're not booing America or the United States.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
We're booing specifically the administration. So I'll make the nuance there. Booing the administration, what our country is doing under its new government right now, loudly booing. Then you see the unification of countries like Canada. And shout out to Canada. We stand in solidarity with all of our Canadian viewers and listeners. But seeing Canada during their national anthem
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
all sing in unison regardless of political parties standing arm in arm seeing trudeau at that game like you're seeing the world right now uniting around us and in many ways boxing america out because america has boxed the world out so you see this reciprocal all right you don't want us well we don't want you either and i think europe is trying to find ways right now to work with us in productive ways for the betterment of global security but donald trump keeps saying fu to them
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/17/25
and so we're in a situation now where the u.s due to donald trump's actions is basically more allied right now with russia and with a lot of these other countries that would normally be considered our adversaries while you have the eu canada mexico all these other countries um uniting basically against us and you know if you really want to get into it yeah it looks like you have let me say this looks like a second looks like you have ukraine and europe
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And we've heard this now from a lot of our allies. We heard this in Panama. We heard this in Greenland, that these leaders are taking it seriously. I know Ben's done reports here at the Midas Touch Network about weaponry being put into place in these countries in case they need to fight back against the United States of America.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
I mean, let's just take a moment to reflect on this concept that our allies now are are arming themselves, preparing for imminent invasion from the United States. And let's view now that we, America, the United States, are the Russia of the world in addition to Russia. But now these countries have to worry about, is Russia going to try to invade us?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Now they have to worry, is this madman Donald Trump, is he going to try to invade us? And that's why I see comments all day from our fans online who live in the European Union, who live in Canada, who say that they are furious, not at everyday Americans, but furious at the people who voted for Donald Trump, furious at Donald Trump, are boycotting American goods.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And we see this all over the place, this just resentment that is building against the U.S. And we're going to see just so much more danger come to the U.S. as a result of Trump's actions.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Because when he is speaking about ethnic cleansing in Gaza, when he is talking about forcibly removing the people of Palestine and not allowing them to come back to their land, I mean, that right there is something that would have been the biggest headline on the planet if it happened just a month or two ago and it was said by President Biden. I know, Ben, you said before, I know, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
We're not going to go into this. What if President Biden did it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just think about that. And I want also to think about the protests that happened during the Kamala Harris campaign about these issues. When Kamala Harris was fighting for a two-state solution and she was trying to do the best by both parties in a very complicated situation, could she have handled it?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
the situation better? Sure. I mean, you could say that about anybody, but she was also working for an administration that was actively handling high pressure negotiations and situations where one wrong word could set off, you know, could totally derail a deal that is going for a ceasefire. Now you have Donald Trump out there actively campaigning every single day saying,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
I am going to ethnically cleanse this land. I'm going to remove all the Palestinians and why he's being brazen about it. I'm going to build my real estate development there and it's going to be large and it's going to be beautiful and everybody's going to love it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Oh, the Palestinians, they're not going to be allowed back, but we're going to get some really good people in there and then they could find other countries to live in. Just think about the depravity right now of that. And that's just our foreign policy. We haven't even gotten into Donald Trump completely gutting all of our government and using Elon Musk. We'll get there soon.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
But that's just one aspect. But you see just a systematic – or a systemic destruction of everything the United States stands for in such a short period of time. And we have to take Trump seriously when he says all these things. I know sometimes people want to say, oh, he's not serious about Canada. He's not serious about Gaza. I'm telling you, he is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And you know how you know he is because all the other countries that have to deal with this stuff are taking him seriously and they are preparing for the worst case scenario, which speaks so badly about the United States and where we are at.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
February is the month of love, but why let romance stop after Valentine's Day? Whether you're looking to turn up the heat in the bedroom or just unwind and enjoy the moment, Vaya has you covered.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
I've tried Vya's products and they truly stand out. They have these dreams sleep gummies that always help me unwind after a crazy day and after covering all the chaos in the world every single day. Trust me, it helps a ton. Their hemp is sourced from independently owned American farms. Their formulas are vegan and organic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And whether you're looking to relax, sleep better, or enhance your mood, they have something for you. Plus, they ship legally and discreetly to almost every U.S. state, no medical card required. If you're 21 or over, check out the link to Vaya in our description and use code MIDAS for 15% off. And if you're new to Vaya, you'll even get a free gift of your choice.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
After you order, let them know we sent you. This month of love, elevate your love life with Vaya. Okay, real talk. I love food, but I do not love meal planning. Every week I do my best, but often reality hits, work, errands, exhaustion. Suddenly I'm eating leftovers for dinner again. But then I found Marley Spoon and I am officially a meal prep person. I could announce it right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
not because i suddenly got my life together but because marley spoon did it for me this podcast is sponsored by marley spoon and i'm genuinely excited about it because it's helping me fast track my way to eating well without all that stress and with our code midas m-e-i-d-a-s you could get up to 27 free meals here's what i love marley spoon gives you over a hundred recipes to choose from every week we're talking everything
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Cozy comfort food like big batch beef stroganoff to lighter dishes like salmon and creamy mustard deal sauce tray bake. There's literally something for every single mood. And my absolute favorite recently, their beef noodle soup with bok choy. I made it last night. I had that moment where I just stared at my plate like, damn, I'm good.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
It looked incredible, smelled amazing, and more importantly, tasted like something out of a restaurant. And the best part, Marley Spoon just launched their new 15-minute express recipes. Yep, dinner in 15 minutes. So even on nights when I'm feeling extra lazy, I have zero excuses. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Head to marleyspoon.com slash offer slash Midas and use that code Midas for up to 27 free meals. You heard me right. Up to 27 free meals with Marley Spoon. One last time, that's marleyspoon.com slash offer slash Midas for up to 27 free meals. And make sure you use our promo code Midas, M-E-I-D-A-S, so they know that I sent you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
I think I got another profession on my hands.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Anyway, so I think I can do commercials though, like on TV, you know,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
It helps that they're all really good products and services and that Jordy vets them and that they're amazing. So check them out. All the links in the descriptions of these videos and audio podcasts.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Trump has signed an executive order deeming the white people in South Africa to be a persecuted class and saying that they could take refuge. They could be refugees to the United States because of the way that South Africa is treating them and welcoming white South Africans into the U S as he pushes out legal immigrants who are already here in the U S I mean, completely appalling. Also,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Elon Musk is all over that executive order like like that is Elon steering the ship 100 percent right there. And again, so so what's the like what's the plan?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
The moving of the goalposts here right now by the MAGA influencers is so wild. And, you know, we've known this for a while, but it's never been more apparent that these people don't believe in shit. They don't believe in anything. When you see this Ashley St. Clair and all these other MAGA influencers, And comments like, oh, what do you think that Elon Musk is going to do with your data?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
You're really afraid of this guy going through your data? Really? Oh, that's what you're scared of? Could you imagine?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Yeah, that's my Sinclair. That's my mega dingus voice. Can you imagine one moment and replace Elon Musk with Bill Gates or George Soros? Don't worry. Bill Gates has got to go through your social security number. What do you think he's going to do with it? He's got to go through all your information and see everything about you. He needs to look through what the treasury is paying you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
He needs to look through your social security number. He needs to look through everything the government has on you. But you could trust him. He's a billionaire. I mean, you could trust this guy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
It's your patriotic duty to pay more for eggs or not be able to afford eggs. And that's what they do. And, you know, Mark Cuban made a good point on this because Mark Cuban has been, I think, very good, very effective. He's a billionaire who could actually hold his weight in the space.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And he pushing back against Elon Musk and this whole Doge process saying, hey, listen, I'm all for smaller, more efficient government as well. But if you want to do this right and have the trust of the American people, then you have to be transparent.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
So instead of leaking BS information that nobody can even find anywhere to try to smear hardworking people who work in the federal government to smear agencies, show us your work. Show us the information. Stop hiding all of it. And you also think you have the right that the American people actually aren't allowed to know who's even working in your weirdo doge operation.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
You have all these weirdo 19 to 25 year old young dudes who come from who a lot of them have these weird checkered past. Like one of them literally got fired. The guy they call Big Balls, not making this up. They call him that's his nickname, Big Balls. That's what he went by on social media. He got fired from his previous company. He worked for a cybersecurity firm. For what?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
For leaking data from the company to competitors. So he's not very good with data, apparently. But this is the guy now who Elon Musk has entrusted to go through all of your personal data. Somebody who was literally fired from one of their previous jobs for leaking sensitive data to other people. This is who they put in charge. And Mark Cuban says, dear Doge,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
If there is nothing to hide, hide nothing. And I think that is something that should be obvious. It should be something that the Ashley Sinclairs of the world, that everybody should accept. Yes, of course we want transparency because they try to act like they want transparency. But the second you demand it, they go, oh, you just have terrible TDS. Oh, you just hate Elon.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
No, we want to know what the heck these people are doing with our government. We want to know the people who are even being put in charge. Elon Musk, anytime somebody even says the names of these 19-year-olds who are rummaging through all of our stuff, he goes, you have just committed a crime. You have committed a crime. And then he has this U.S.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
attorney guy who goes out there and he goes, oh, I'm investigating everybody who Elon Musk refers to me criminally. So if you want to criticize Doge, if you want to criticize Elon Musk and he tells me about it, He reports you to me. Guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to open a criminal investigation into you. That's transparency. That's honest government.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And the fact that they are acting like this is honest government is once again, one of the biggest kind of brainwashing Russia, North Korea style scams and propaganda that we have ever seen in this country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Yeah, he's doing everything possible to destroy all the institutions, everything that kind of holds the country together. And under the guise of finding fraud, under the guise of trying to streamline the government, is destroying the exact programs that exist to streamline government and find the fraud.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
It's a very kind of Soviet-esque, Russian-esque, Putin-esque style of governance where you kind of Dangle fake information for your people to latch on to.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
All right, let's talk about something very serious, my obsession with Hexclad. Listen, I've gone through my fair share of cookware disasters, warped nonstick pans, cast irons that require a master's degree in seasoning, and stainless steel that turns every meal into a scraping session. But hexclad, oh, hexclad is different.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
You use that as a predicate to then punish the people who are actually doing the hard work in our federal government, the people who are actually making things run, the people who are actually protecting consumers, protecting Americans with medical debt, protecting Americans.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
It's like if a cast iron skillet, a nonstick pan, and a spaceship had a baby. You get perfect sears, food doesn't stick, and cleanup ridiculously easy. You could even use metal utensils. Yeah, I said it. No more babying your pans like they are delicate antiques. And if you think that's cool, wait till you see their knives.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
These Japanese Damascus steel knives are so sharp they could probably slice time itself. And they look stunning. Like if James Bond had a kitchen, these would be in it. It's time to ditch the scratched up pan you've been clinging to since college and upgrade your kitchen like a pro. And for a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off their order with our exclusive link.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Just head to hexclad.com slash Midas. That's H-E-X-C-L-A-D.com forward slash Midas. M-E-I-D-A-S. Support the show, get the best cookware of your life, and level up your cookie game. Bon appetit. Let's eat with Hexclad.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Americans from banks exploiting them and all sorts of things and using these fake attacks against these agencies to destroy them and do these massive giveaways to billionaires, to oligarchs, to big banks, to all of these kind of predatory structures.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
That is what we're seeing with Donald Trump right now, a government of the oligarchs, by the oligarchs and for the oligarchs, screwing the American people down. in the process and we will break it all down on this episode of the Midas Touch podcast. But first, we got to check in with Jordy. Jordy, what's new?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Honestly, there's, there's no good argument. There's no good argument. I work in TV. It's fucking stupid. There's no good argument. Listen, I, Every show you've ever seen is edited. There's editors for everything you see. Why? There are time constraints.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Sometimes different versions are delivered to different channels or different shows because they're just showing a portion of it for this show or they're showing a portion of it for that show. Editors have to make game time decisions in order to cut things for time. They don't have the conversation that the people have before the interview. That doesn't get aired.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
They just air it from the interview on. They don't air the people sitting down and adjusting their makeup and making sure the lights are okay. That stuff isn't in things. It was the FCC decided to weaponize this whole lawsuit, acting like Donald Trump's personal henchman. The FCC released the full video of the interview of CBS, the raw, unedited footage.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
They released it on their YouTube channel just to try to humiliate Kamala Harris. You know why you haven't seen a clip from this interview, folks? You know why none of you have probably even heard that the FCC did this? Because there was nothing on it. There was nothing on it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
It was just the raw interview that started with her talking about that she has an allergy to mold and that she had to sneeze a little bit before they got started. They went into the interview. The interview was normal as presented in the thing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And then Donald Trump is trying to sue specifically to silence the media, to try to crush all sort of dissent, to try to scare any opponents from even taking interviews that could benefit their campaigns. I mean, remember, Donald Trump was offered the same interview He refused to even participate. He was too afraid of it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And the last time that he did remember the footage that came out from that interview, it was him walking off the set like a baby because he couldn't handle Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes. Ask very basic questions about why at his rallies, he said, suburban woman, will you please love me? Suburban woman, please love me, please. And he got so upset that he asked, so why? She asked, why do you say that?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And he goes, no, I don't. I don't say that. And then she played the clip. And then he got really upset and left. And I think she maybe asked about his health care plan he didn't have when he left. So the whole thing, it's just using the government to try to strong arm people, to try to threaten people, to try to silence the media.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And no matter how much Paramount or CBS, no matter how much they want to do this merger that they're currently involved in, no matter how many billions of dollars that Redstone, the lead stakeholder in Paramount, seeks to gain from this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
They need to make sure that they hold their ground here because if they buckle on this completely frivolous lawsuit to Donald Trump, it puts all media, including the Midas Touch Network, puts everybody at risk because that is exactly what Donald Trump wants.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
yeah all the lower your prices right guys i i like how you know these mag influencer types uh all these folks online will always be like it's the democrats that are corrupt the democrats are full of corruption and and uh and we go you know there are corrupt people on both sides certainly i think there's far more uh corrupt people right now in naga and on the republican side but there certainly are corrupt people like uh
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Like Menendez, great that he was prosecuted. I think that's great. I think what he was doing was the epitome of corruption. Eric Adams, yeah, you're so right. Eric Adams, corrupt. The law needs to handle him. But then the second these people say a word nice about Donald Trump, they're like –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
oh, the Democrats are just trying to attack this guy because he's trying to tell the truth because they don't want the truth to get out there. And it's like, geez, God, it's such, to bring it back to what I said in the beginning, they take like the cues from North Korean and Russia propaganda and run with them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
and run with them and they have the benefit of having these billionaire oligarchs control all these algorithms who push their stuff out and help it get into everybody's feed and basically use it to try to brainwash people into thinking that this is the truth couldn't be any further from the truth even when you look at some of these documents
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Like when you look at the document that the Trump administration just released on overdraft fees, you know, who likes overdraft fees? Find me a Republican, a Democrat or independent who's like, yes, I'm so happy the bank charged me a ton of money for not having money. Find me a single person. Find me a single person who said, oh, I was buried in medical debt. But thank God.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
thank god that that also worked against my credit and i couldn't buy anything because of my medical debt thank thank you donald trump for for giving me back that burden on my life i can no longer buy things because my credit's destroyed and i have all this medical debt but thank you that's that's exactly what i wanted nobody wants this stuff and so as like tim wallace would say who wants this stuff this is weird stuff no one wants this stuff
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
So the framing that they always put around all these things is just the opposite of reality. So I'll just go to the memo for a second that they released about the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. By the way, Elizabeth Warren project implemented to try to ensure that there was never another 2008 style crash ever again. This is an agency that has delivered for the American people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
If you wanna talk about Department of Government Efficiency, There is no agency. I think that even comes close to this department in providing efficiency and providing effective and efficient government and actually being used to get money back into the hands of Americans from being scammed by corporations. So the corrupt corporations don't like that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And so this is the Elon Musk, White House, Trump memo about CFPB. They say the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau isn't a Wall Street regulator anymore. It's a Main Street regulator. They always say exactly the opposite of what it is. And here's their message about the the Biden reforms, which were the ones we were just speaking about.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
They said described as classic overreach and passed or granted itself the waning hours of the lame duck Biden administration. The agency gave itself the authority to regulate Americans checking accounts. makes it sound like, oh, my God, they're putting their fingers in our checking accounts. Who wants that?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
No, they were preventing banks from doing these crazy overdraft fees on people for overdrafting their accounts by small amounts. Then they add over here that the government then dictated price controls and unilaterally buried a $50 billion in medical debt.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Yeah, no, they were preventing medical debt from being used against people in other aspects of their life by completely ruining their credit for their entire life. Those are good things that if you polled them, and I know they haven't polled, probably poll at 75, 80, 90%, like very popular things that actually help the American people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And Elon Musk, quite frankly, gives away the game that this is not anything to do with government efficiency or trying to help people's lives when he pulls away an agency like that, illegally, by the way, because these are agencies that are created by legislation, signed into law by the president that he is trying to just defund and destroy from within. But these are agencies that help people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
And you give away the game that this has never been about government efficiency. This has never been about making America great again. This is just about enriching the people at the top and screwing over Americans and then distracting them with enough little toys to hope they don't notice.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Also, add the Midas Touch podcast on audio, Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And also, we're doing something new on Spotify now, which is super exciting, is we're starting to put some of our video podcasts on Spotify. So you can get the video there. You get the audio there. So that really helps. You may think, oh, what does adding this thing help? It helps a ton, believe me.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
So if you go and add the Midas Touch podcast on Apple and on Spotify, leave us a five-star review. Help us continue to beat, because we are like the top news podcast right now. Help us continue to beat all these MAGA podcasts. I'm sick of seeing them in the algorithm. And you adding the show, playing the episodes, giving a five-star review, all helps in that. And it's free and it's super easy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Yeah. Oh, boy. A lot of chaos, a lot of things that he's throwing out. You know, you see with the other things that he's doing, the penny, the straw, all that stuff.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
By the way, even like the straw thing, I have a feeling a lot of people are going to be going into like various coffee shops and stores and stuff and complaining to the people because they're going to think that Donald Trump's executive order extends to like everywhere. But it doesn't. He doesn't have the power for that to extend to everywhere, just like federal buildings.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
So I guarantee you're going to have a lot of obnoxious people like yelling at employees in stores over paper straws, first of all. But you're right.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
He throws out all of these very inconsequential things like the straws, like the penny, just easily done sort of things to make a statement while he kind of hides the dangerous stuff or pushes through this other dangerous stuff that's really going to screw people over. So he gets people to – Probably not super bright people to be like, yeah, America, Gulf of America, we're doing great.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/10/25
Meanwhile, they're paying dramatically more for everything that they buy. Our allies now hate us. Our allies are living in fear of the United States over invasions. You have Canada. There was a leaked Mike moment with Justin Trudeau over the weekend of him basically saying to his people like Donald Trump is serious about wanting to invade us. And we need to take precautions.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
There's a reason why they are all panicking as well, because they know that this is a stupid idea that is going to wreck their companies. And everything's going to have a domino effect here. Also, as the stock market goes down, as investors get margin called, as these companies struggle to keep up with everything that's going on, they're going to have to lay off more people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Now these people aren't going to be able to find jobs at other places. America, as a competitive leader in the world, is completely ruined. And those jobs, even Howard Lutnick of the Trump administration right now is admitting that if those jobs even were to come back here, which is unlikely to begin with, that they would be robots doing the jobs, not American workers.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
So they are completely setting this up, like all of their scams, to help the billionaires, to help the factory owners, but not the factory workers. And right now, Trump is just, this is just a perfect storm that this administration has created. And the Republicans could end it in two seconds if they wanted to. They could pass legislation to stop this at any point.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
But you have the cowards like Mike Johnson who refuse, and this entire Republican Party who refuse to do anything about this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
It was trans billboards today, Jordy. Trans billiards, and I think it was a billiards game from like two years ago. That's what they're running with on Fox today.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Before I found Public Rec, I dreaded putting on real pants. You know, the ones, tight waistbands, stiff fabric, squeezing all the wrong places. Honestly, it would make me like not even want to go out at all. But then I discovered Public Rec and everything changed. I'm obsessed with these pants. The first time I slipped them on, I could not believe how comfortable they were.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
It felt like I was wearing joggers, but I looked like I could walk into a nice dinner or hit the bar. I've worn them to meetings, out to grab drinks, to workouts, and even on a long flight, and yep, I have absolutely fallen asleep in them too. Public Rec nails that perfect balance between comfort and style.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
True story, after I got my first pair, I loved them so much I went right back on their website and ordered them in just about every single color. I am already eyeing their shorts and hoodies next. Comfortable enough for the couch, sharp enough for the city. For a limited time, you can get 20% off at Public Rec by using code MIDUS20 at checkout. Just head to publicrec.com and use code MIDUS20.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
That's M-E-I-D-A-S 2-0 and you're all set. Oh, and when they ask how you found them, be sure to mention our show. It really helps us out. Upgrade to Public Rec and feel the difference.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Doing great. Great to see you, brothers. Great to see everybody watching. Great to be speaking with all the people listening on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. What a weekend, you guys. The hands-off protests, absolutely incredible. The biggest mobilization that we have seen to date. Hey, Donald, you finally got those crowds that you were talking about.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
but not the crowds that you were hoping for. The people are fed up, folks. And it was such an honor to cover these protests, honestly. I'm so impressed by all the groups that organized this, by all the people out there who took to the streets, all of you out there. I know so many of you listening made your own signs. You guys were out there putting in the hard work. I loved seeing your signs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
what are you even talking about you got cambodia to break you got vietnam to break and submit while like europe is standing up all these people are all these other countries are building structures and debates i want to say this too if i can so trump in his best case scenario and his big pitch for why these tariffs are so amazing says tariffs are going to make us rich it's always a get rich quick scheme with trump right it's always it's going to make you rich it's not going to make you rich you're never going to see this money hate to break it to you
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
listeners. But Trump always goes, tariffs are going to make us rich. We're going to get $1 trillion, like Dr. Evil, this guy. We're going to get $1 trillion from tariffs. I'll say two things about the $1 trillion from the tariffs. I'll say, first, in the past week or so alone, under Donald Trump, the stock market has already lost $10 trillion in value.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
$10 trillion removed from the United States economy for this theoretical $1 trillion that he's talking about. I'll just put that there. I know it's not exactly apples to apples, but I'll just say that we're already getting quite screwed by Donald Trump's plans exponentially upon that $1 trillion mark. Secondly, Do you know where the $1 trillion comes from?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Do you know who's paying that $1 trillion that he's talking about the United States earning? You are. It's not the other countries, because tariffs are a tax on American companies, and tariffs are a tax that are passed along to American consumers. So every time Trump is bragging about all the money that we're going to make from these tariffs, he is bragging
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Quite literally and directly, he is bragging about raising your taxes and taking your money. That's what he's bragging about anytime he says we're going to get rich off tariffs. To be clear, Ben.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
I noticed a lot of people with Midas Touch signs as well out there, which I thought was super, super cool. We had our correspondents on the ground. Tennessee Brando spoke at the Los Angeles event. We were doing the live coverage, the reports. We were city to city interviewing the organizers. What a weekend for democracy. The democracy does indeed have a pulse.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And on the other hand, you see Donald Trump right now. Let's face it, this is the most disastrous beginning of a presidency that we have ever seen in the history of this country, crashing the markets, national security failures,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
ruining all of our foreign policy destroying our alliances it's like a speed run with the destruction of america coming from this administration we are going to get into all of it but first you know i got to toss it to jordy and see how little bro is doing what's up jordy what's up everybody i am so stoked to get into it brett to your point exactly man the energy from the protest the energy is palpable man there is a a dramatic vibe shift and people are just
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Well, we're seeing all the things that he wanted to do in his previous presidency, but there were guardrails that still existed then, and there were people that were around him to tell him no, generals, military. He's purged all those people, and he's completely taken over the Republican Party. And now they just go, yes, you want a parade? We'll give you a parade, sir.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Jordy, this is why the whole thing is a sham. The whole administration is a – the whole thing is a sham. Because if you were really concerned about wasteful spending, you wouldn't spend more than $100 million on something like this. And that's – I'm honestly almost like upset by a lot of the things just from like a –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
intellectual level, I guess, because when I look at what Elon Musk has done with Doge, for example, it could have been an amazing opportunity, honestly, to make the government more efficient if you actually had an honest broker at the helm, if you had people giving legitimate numbers, if you had, like I said earlier with the tariffs,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
a plan rather than let's just throw all this stuff out in the first few weeks fire people make them lose their jobs have all these lawsuits have all this chaos destroy these agencies make it so people can't even get weather forecasts in some areas make it so people are waiting hours online for their social security phone calls all that stuff there was a way that you could go through and you could actually make the government more efficient
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And I would love that, quite frankly. And I'm sure there's an Elon Musk of the past who would have been very good at that. Elon Musk before he got red-pilled or propagandized by his own social media app or whatever the heck that happened with Elon Musk. Because I think that would have been a great opportunity. Instead, this is an administration. It's the gang that can't shoot straight.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
They can't do anything right. Doge is all a scam. It's the whole thing. They say these big numbers. They're fake. They put these numbers on their website. You look into them for a second. There were contracts that were already canceled 10 years ago, or the numbers are inflated. It's all a scam.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And with this military parade in 2018 or 2019, whatever the year was, it was one of those years that they were going to do this parade. It was going to cost over $90 million for the parade alone. And then an additional about $20 million in order to fix the streets and the damage because the Streets in Washington, D.C.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
are not designed for military planes and all this stuff to be pulled alongside it and to drive down it. So they were going to do it knowing that it was going to damage the streets and completely destroy the infrastructure in D.C. But Trump doesn't give a shit. So he's going to be doing it now. And there's going to be a lot of waste here all for this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And it will really show that will be the moment if
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
No, it's a good wrap of everything going on. There's a lot to be concerned about and we're not here to sugarcoat things and let you know that everything's great because it clearly is not. There is a lot to be hopeful for as well. This weekend brought me a lot of hope. A lot of these town halls that we've seen over the past few weeks have brought me a lot of hope.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And finally, seeing kind of Democrats step up, seeing the people rise up, I think it does give me kind of a lot of confidence going into the future that we can overcome all this. But we're going to have to stay in this fight. We're going to have to stay just up to date with everything that's going on, make sure that we're on top of everything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And so that's what we promise to do here at the Midas Touch Network. And I got to thank all of you for being in it because I know times are tough. I know it's not fun for those who have retirement plans to check their accounts and be like, what the hell is going on?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
I know it's not fun to wake up to all this chaos, especially after years and years and years of relative quiet and stability and looking at positive headlines and alliances growing and stock market records and stuff. and GDP records and employment growing and new factories opening. And we're not seeing that anymore.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
We're in a totally different country that I, quite frankly, do not recognize at all. But that means that we need to double our efforts. That means we need to work that much harder. And so that's what we're going to do here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
I've been noticing that line too. By the way, do you remember what I told you guys like a week or two ago? I said, just wait for the pivot, guys. I said, wait for the pivot because oil is going to come down because we're heading into a recession, if not a depression. That's a signature sign that that is happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And so watch that collapse and then watch Donald Trump and watch all these MAGA people go, oh boy, look how much oil has come down. And like clockwork, that's the propaganda that they shifted to. Basically today they started that one amid this total chaos.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
Out of all the hosts on Fox also, Jesse Waters in particular has an incredible level of disdain for his own viewers because he mocks them like that on a nightly basis. Every single night, he's making comments like that, acknowledging that he's in on the scheme. He's in on the scam. He's in on exactly what they are doing at Fox.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And right now, they have to run protection for Donald Trump, these disastrous policies. They have to make it seem like okay, you are looking in your 401k accounts. You are getting laid off from your job. How can we spin this as a good thing? And they go into overdrive and it gets more and more ridiculous as they try to counter what's actually happening in reality with their spin.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And that's why, and we'll show some more clips too, because like the level of like North Korea style propaganda that we are seeing from the Trump regime right now is like nothing we have ever seen before in the United States of America. And Donald Trump is going full authoritarian. He is leaning into all the things that they do in authoritarian countries in North Korea, in Russia.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
We'll talk about the military parade that he wants to hold for himself on his birthday soon as well. But all the things that he is doing make the people suffer and make them beg you for the scraps. That's a typical thing that dictators have done throughout history. That's what Donald Trump is doing right here. Make the people suffer, then make them beg you for help.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And then you throw them little breadcrumbs and then they go, Oh, thank you, Mr. Trump. Thank you, President Trump. Thank you. Thank you. That's what he wants from people right now. And the issue with this whole tariff scheme is this was done in the worst way possible.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
And I think, you know, no matter how much I disagree with what Trump is doing here, and I disagree with what he's doing vehemently, I think his plan is absolutely atrocious. And it's clearly destroying the markets and putting uncertainty in the markets. But even if there was a world where I did agree somehow with what Trump was doing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
There's a reasonable way to roll things out so that it doesn't ruin people's lives, so that it doesn't throw businesses into chaos, so that it doesn't make people unemployed. There's a way to make it so the business community is able to prepare for these tariffs. There's a way to make it so other countries are able to prepare so that we could have an honest way of doing trade.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
But because everything is projection with Trump, Trump calls everybody else abusers. When Trump himself is the abuser, he is abusing the global trade system. And I just want you to think, I'll put out this hypothetical right now, right? Trump's been changing his mind on these tariffs like every other day. It's this rate, it's that rate. We're taking it away. We're negotiating with these countries.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
No, we're not negotiating with these countries. If you're a business in the United States, and even if you want to build a factory in the United States because of these tariffs, are you going to sink?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
millions if not tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars into building a factory in the united states if donald trump can one day come on in and say i'm just kidding about that tariff i'm actually taking away that tariff i cut a deal i got i got us a good deal all of a sudden that company's investments in this factory were for nothing and they just lost a whole bunch of money and their competition now is way ahead of them
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
You can't negotiate. You can't do business here abroad. You can't do anything with somebody who is so unstable like Donald Trump. And the one thing that you need if you're in the business community, the one thing that you need if you want to work in general is stability.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/8/25
there's nothing more important than stability and there is nothing less that i could say that there's a quality of donald trump than stability there's no strategy here there is zero coherence here it is full on chaos non-stop and it's just not a good thing this is why you see even these billionaire ceos and a lot of these oligarchs who have backed donald trump i'm talking the bill ackman's of the world i'm even talking elon musk came out and said that he did like tariffs
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
hitting stock market record after record. Now, here's the article on the right. This one's from Business Insider. This is an article from December 2024. The probability of a US recession in 2025 is 0%. Once again, not couching it in 2.5%, 5%, not even giving them any bit of room for error here. They said it was 0%. Here's what to worry about instead. Well, here we are. It
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Three months later, and we are in a place now where economists are predicting a full-blown recession later this year. We're looking at the Dow Jones having absolute collapse. We saw it in real time. I think Donald Trump today was actually trying to pump up the markets because the markets started out not so good. So he held this kind of press conference.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
He started speaking about some investments in Arizona. You saw the markets kind of coming up a little bit. They were still down, but they were rising just a little bit. Then he's got to the tariffs. And in real time, they just started tanking and tanking so hard that we showed you that Fox clip earlier. Fox put up a Dow watch, the Dow watch to show people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And I'm surprised that they even did that, to be honest, to show people how it was collapsing. And so now we're dealing with the real realities of this, of these tariffs, of the stock market, of people losing their jobs, of these government jobs going away. People are filing jobless claims every week they're going up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
We're in a really bad place as a country, and they're not going to be able to outrun this reality for long. I think we're already at that point.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
just across the board and you have all like the you had them pushing also this idea like oh you know whatever happens with trump though you know the stock market's going to go crazy and you know who's really excited also crypto people crypto people are super psyched well how excited are they now i think bitcoin is down below where it was when trump took office um all these markets are crashing and we're going to get into his bitcoin scam in a little bit that he tried to pull where he was pumping all these these these meme coins and these coins
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Yeah, like if you want to like steal your buddy's phone and just add the Midas Touch podcast, like no one's going to, you know, no one will be mad about that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
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When you watch that too, I know everyone doesn't have street smarts per se, but I don't think you need a lot of street smarts to listen to that and go, oh, I'm being scammed. I'm being scammed right now. And it's all these people in the Trump administration. Every time they open their mouth, I'm like, it's so obvious a scam that how isn't 95% of the country catching on to what is going on?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
I'm thinking even about the Kudlow clip. And by the way, Kudlow was in the previous Trump administration. He's now the Fox host who covers Kudlow. like the economy, and it has been wrong literally about everything. I think if you go back to Kudlow during the 2008, 2009 market crash, he's like, things are about to be great. Everything's about to be awesome. Get ready for prosperity, folks.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Economy crashes. You could definitely make a super cut of Larry Kudlow throughout the past four decades, and he will say the wrong thing right before a major economic catastrophe happens.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
like every single time these guys are fraudsters they're scammers and they're all built in the image of donald trump and it's just so disturbing that people aren't catching on to these scams but um you know but like i keep saying though they're not going to be able to outrun this reality for long trump's approval ratings are are plummeting quickly his handling of the economy is a disaster
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
His approval rating amongst independents is an absolute disaster. People are pissed off. And you're also taking away people's jobs, a lot of Republicans' jobs. There have been programs, and I feel like a lot of people forget this. There have been so many programs throughout the past few decades in order to help veterans that have prioritized veterans getting jobs in the federal government.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Some may call it part of DEI initiatives. Oh, yeah, they don't like those. Guess what? The I stands for inclusion and including veterans in our government is part of that, including disabled people in our government is all part of that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
These are the policies that they got rid of, and now they are firing the federal workforce, which contains a large number of veterans, a lot of them who are Republicans. We're seeing this play out over and over and over again right now, just the ruthlessness in which they are handling our economy, the callousness in which they are treating the people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
I just cannot even imagine if even the fringiest of fringe Democrats – I don't even know who that would be –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
went on tv and said that their constituents the things that they are saying that they're fake that they're imposters ignoring the will of the people i saw one of these um uh republicans i think it was in in tennessee i think it was posted by tennessee holler who does incredible work the people in the crowd in this deep red district were pissed off because they were giving all these giveaways to billionaires and making elon musk richer and doing all these things
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Instead of leveling with the people and saying, you know what, you're right, we need to be doing more things for working class Americans, the woman went on a rant defending the rich saying, well, the 1% actually are responsible for the growth in our country, and the 1% actually pay the most in tax. How could you possibly – say that to your own constituents. They never go full trickle.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
They really just do not care about their people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And there is just such incredible brainwashing that has happened thanks to outlets like Fox and thanks to social media outlets that are controlled by these same billionaires that are putting their thumb on the scale of these algorithms in order to control people, in order to push them to support policies that screw them, but help the billionaires who are controlling them. It's just it's obvious.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And I just urge everybody to constantly be on guard anytime you hear these people speak, because I just feel it like I feel it in my bones when I hear a Lutnick speak.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
It all makes more sense when you view it through the lens of it's basically, I mean, it is, it's Russian propaganda. And it's the Trump administration's version of Russia propaganda. I mean, it's the same way that they operate. And they invent these new narratives that don't actually reflect reality.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Like this reality, this narrative that Zelensky was the one who misbehaved during that meeting is just so preposterous. It doesn't even deserve like a fact check.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
But you all know how ridiculous it is that they're turning it into that Zelensky was the one who was acting up, but not Donald Trump screaming like a madman at this war hero who's here just asking for help and has expressed his gratitude numerous times, just coming from it for a normal meeting. Zelensky has visited all the world leaders, as we've been reporting on in this episode.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
I just had a summit in Europe with the world leaders as well. Guess what? This has never happened before. because none of these other leaders are maniacs like Donald Trump are maniacs. I mean, it's absurd that we have to watch this clown show every single day as our alliances just get completely destroyed. And like all Russian propaganda, these lies just get repeated over and over and over again.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
One of the lies that I frequently see on social media, anytime you show any bit of support for Ukraine now on social media, the comments that you get are, okay, so I guess you're going to sign up and you're going to go over there and you're going to fight for Ukraine, right? Then pack your bags, get on over there, sign up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
The reason why we actually give aid to Ukraine is so that Americans don't have to ever risk their lives in a war in Europe. That's the whole purpose of the aid. You think we're just doing this out of the goodness of our hearts? I mean, yes, it's a good thing that we are helping our ally Ukraine in this fight against Russian aggression, but do you think that's the reason?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Or do you think the reason is because once Putin, if he were to take Ukraine, he would go and he would try to take Poland. He would try to take other nations throughout Europe. That would embroil the United States in a world war. what we are doing are taking preventative measures against a war.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
We're taking preventative measures against your sons and your daughters having to go overseas and fight against Russia as they try to do what Hitler did back in the 30s and expand their territory. That is the whole reason for these alliances. That is the whole reason for these aides. And once again, like the good little Russian propagandists they are,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
They try to take the concept, which is we are trying to prevent these wars. We are trying to prevent further aggression. We are trying to prevent Americans from having to go overseas and fight these battles. And they go, oh, so you want to go to war.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And then they try to pretend like they are somehow the peace candidates and the party of peace when actually President Biden was the one who actually kept us out of entering any new wars. President Biden was the one who actually removed us from the war in Afghanistan, even if it was a little sloppy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
He removed us from the war in Afghanistan, which no president has been able to do in decades and decades and decades. And so those are just like the facts. They could twist them all they want, but that is actually the reality of what is going on. And they just continue to twist reality.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
tell me about it tell me about it i gotta say for an allegedly very smart person uh he's not very good at explaining things because that was not he did not what he described was not a ponzi scheme either i don't even know what he's talking about still and i've heard the extended clip as well as so you have rogan who launders the oligarchs he's not beating the allegations under the subterfuge of comedy
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Yeah, I mean, there's not much more to it than that. But Donald Trump announced that crypto is going to be great again and that we're going to have these crypto reserves. And America's crypto reserve is going to be the first of its kind. And we're going to start with these five crypto coins.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And the five crypto coins that Donald Trump picked just so happen to be the exact five crypto coins that make up the portfolio of of a company that David Sachs is a major investor in. David Sachs being the Donald Trump's crypto czar who's big into crypto. He hosts a podcast and he's definitely been a big Trump propagandist over these past few years.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
But now I even see a lot of these crypto people kind of freaking out because all the value of Every time he does this, it might pump Bitcoin. It might pump some of these other coins that Donald Trump is picking and choosing winners. They might pump up for a little bit, but then they end up crashing. It's just another pump and dump scheme that we're seeing from the administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
It's just scam money. on top of scam on top of scam and you know i think you know that it's getting bad when when you start seeing uh the language of the propaganda shift and we pointed out a few weeks ago when we noticed how bad prices were getting under trump and and that we started seeing all those propagandists kind of in unison say stuff like
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
it's patriotic, patriotic to pay more folks, patriotic, pay more. It's more, it's patriotic. Get those tariffs. It's like, y'all are the same people who complained when eggs were $2.99. Now they're like 12 bucks, 15 bucks in some cases. And you're saying it's patriotic, like at least show some consistency. Jeez, have some dignity.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Well, now I'm seeing a lot of people going out there and they're saying, so what if the housing market crashes? So what if the US economy collapses? That'd be a good thing. We could use a big economic collapse right now, guys. Let me explain to you why this is good. And I'm already seeing that start to percolate on these MAGA propaganda accounts.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And it's just so obvious the direction things are heading when you see them start to kind of plant their flags in those regards. But this was Elon Musk's. This is what he said. Right. He said pain said he's going to inflict pain. And that's exactly what's happening right now. And, you know, I think we tweeted out like right after the election, things are going to get a whole lot worse.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
That was the evergreen post of the century. Every single day, things just continue to get worse.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Welcome, everybody. Welcome, brothers, and welcome, everybody listening and watching. It's just the whole thing. It's all beyond parody. And I remember, you know, when we would be hitting stock market record after record after record and they'd cut to Kudlow on Fox, he would step in and say something hard. The economy in shambles. It really is state regime media.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
And not enough people realize that. Like, I don't know if this audience realizes that, but a lot of people watch Fox and think because they're on a set, because they have, you know, business shows and all this other sort of the iconography of news channels that it's actual news, but it's completely fake.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
no i think that sounds great um well said and you know i'm thinking back to the town hall that keith keith self town hall um in that texas uh district where the people were shouting at him do your job uh do your job i love seeing that energy i want to see it all over the country but i'm also going to put it back on you the listeners and i'm going to put it back on all the republicans and independents and if there are democrats in those districts as well in those red districts you also people we all have to be doing our job as well
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
which is, to Ben's point, informing the public, making our voices heard, never letting anybody gaslight us into pretending that this is normal, pushing back against that garbage, and when the time comes, making sure that everybody shows up at the polls and does their thing. I love seeing the reckonings in these town halls.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
The thing that really just bothers me the most right now is we could have been chilling right now, fellas. We could have been working, building on the success of the economy, working our way on up. GDP was predicted to be somewhere between 2% and 3% in 2025 with Biden's policies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
It's going to mean nothing if people don't actually show up and take action. And so we need to convert this into action. We need to look inward at ourselves rather than just looking at all the spineless politicians we see out there and demanding action from them. Let's also demand action from ourselves and from our friends and from our family. And let's keep this fight alive.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
I just want to say one thing now that we're talking about Michael Popock, just because we have so many new audio listeners lately and the audience continues to grow every single day. Michael Popock, Ben, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, he used to be the number two at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. Dina Dahl, incredible lawyer, legal analyst.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
They all do a show called Legal AF, which is on the Midas Touch Network. I know a lot of people constantly ask us for updates on the various cases that are happening, the various legal cases at all levels of the courts, up all the way up to the Supreme Court. We have a show dedicated to all the legal, and it's great. It's called Legal AF.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
If you look up Legal AF by Midas Touch, you'll find it on Apple and Spotify. And I know that all of you who love this show are going to love nerding out with all the legal stuff and staying up to date on all that stuff. So check it out. And then on that note, now I'll hand it over to you, Jay.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
We could have just been hanging out, not destroying our alliances overseas, not threatening to invade other countries, just enjoying what we've built over the past few years and continuing to build on that progress in order to make things better for Americans. But instead, It's just Donald Trump and these just lunatics inflicting pain on everybody.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
But the good news, we see folks rising up across the country, including in deep red areas, as Ben was alluding to earlier. And you could tell they're afraid about this because of the lies that they are trying to come up with around this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
they're fake protesters these aren't actually uh republicans in these republican districts these are paid soros protesters man that's soros guy all over the map according to these people i like how the democrats are also the most incompetent party on the planet that cannot put two and two together cannot organize a single thing yet they're able to brilliantly organize all these protests across these countries small districts big districts everywhere
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
They're actually brilliant geniuses, right? That was the strategy they used with Biden, right, too. He was both senile and a mastermind who masterminded every single criminal prosecution against Donald Trump, no matter the state, no matter the district. These people are utter clowns. We're going to break it all down. First, I got to toss it over to Jordy. Jordy, what's new?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Let me draw a flow chart for you, Jordy. Stock market good? Yeah. Line goes to Trump. Stock market bad.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
I think Fox has that chart in their bathrooms, actually.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Russia is overjoyed right now, and they can't even contain their excitement on their propaganda networks and in the statements coming out of the Kremlin. And we have Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Elon Musk, all this. Elon Musk, by the way, throughout the weekend, kept tweeting all these bad things about NATO, along with these Republican Congress people saying that we need to get out of NATO.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
NATO has been a tremendous success, an incredible defensive alliance that has resulted in the longest era of peace ever. amongst these European nations in the history of the world. And they want to get rid of this because why? Because it's Vladimir Putin's wet dream that he has had now for decades and decades and decades. And Elon Musk wants to make that a reality for him. And it's just dangerous.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
The stuff they're doing is just reckless and dangerous. And I guess that's the point of it, but real people are getting hurt. And as I've said on the show, and I'll say it again, I'll say it every single episode, that they could only outrun reality for so long. And reality is quickly catching up to them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Ben, as we see the stock markets collapse the way they're collapsing, as these Trump supporters are going to look in their bank accounts, as they're going to see their 401ks every single day, just the money just pouring on out of their accounts, as these farmers are going to wake up and they're going to realize that they're not able to export their goods anymore, they're not going to import any goods that they need anymore.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
As these factories are going to close down, especially the auto industry is going to be hit super hard. These tariffs, he moved the China tariff up to 20% now. That's going to be devastating for Americans. The 25% in Canada and in Mexico is going to be devastating for Americans. Whole industries may be wiped out. And you know what?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
Elon Musk did say before the election that he was going to inflict pain on the American people. So I guess in that regard, a promise is made, a promise is kept from this administration because people are feeling the pain. And whether they want to try to claim these people are fake protesters and aren't really angry or not, the reality is that they are, and this is going to come back to haunt them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
The American people are going to continue to rise up. And Ben, just going back, because I don't want anybody to think like, oh, there's no way the media predicted a 100% recession under Biden. Who would make such a bold prediction of not even couching it in like 99%, 99.9%? 100%, baby. 100% means that sounds pretty definitive, if you ask me. Literally, Bloomberg, here's the forecast.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
This was October 2022. On the left, for those listening, I have an article up from Bloomberg. Forecast for US recession within year hits 100% in blow to Biden. Hits 100% in blow to Biden. 100%. 100%. They were very confident of that. And it was articles like this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
This, by the way, is kind of around the exact same time that Biden's approval rating started to fall, actually, kind of August, September 17th, 2022.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/4/25
So think about that now and think about the narrative that was set with the Biden economy as the Biden economy was growing and ended up growing significantly throughout those four years. 100% chance of recession never ended up happening. In fact, the economy ended up having a great deal of growth over those next few years. We had some months of 4% growth, 3% growth.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Yeah, it's every single time. And also, by the way,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
i want to reiterate this too the beginning of all the deals like the i mean like the beginning of all these problems when donald trump explains the reasons why he's imposing tariffs on these countries or wants to get it's always predicated on just fake information it's always predicated on just lies like he talks about when he talks about these massive trade deficits with canada and he says all this fentanyl is coming in from canada and he says that they owe us all this
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
money. You look under the surface of all these comments, it's like, what are you even talking about here? There's no anything that makes any sense to all of this. We'll get to this a little later, probably, but it reminds me of what he did out here in California with the water issue, just making up
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
what was going on with the fires inventing a fake solution claiming he solved it while actually making the problem worse what i think is going to be interesting in this situation is that and one of the things i'm so impressed by too and we have a lot of canadian listeners here i want to say shout out to canada you guys have been incredible you guys have stayed strong it's because of you
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
by the way, Maple Mighty, Maple Midas, it's because of you that Donald Trump folded. I mean that genuinely, because if you folded, Donald Trump would have taken that as an opportunity to actually move ahead with his plan to try to make Canada the 51st state. I think he's serious. about that stuff. I actually do.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
But because you all united, I guess, except for Ben, who's that politician, Danielle Smith, because everybody else except Danielle Smith got together and they said, we're not going to give up our national sovereignty. And I thought that was a really powerful statement to see across party lines.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
to see NDP leaders, to see liberal leaders, to see conservative leaders coming together and saying, you ain't doing shit to Canada, Donald Trump. I love what Charlie Angus had to say. I think he basically paraphrases it like, hey, we're sorry in Canada till we're not. Don't mistake our kindness for weakness here in Canada. And it's true. I mean, we saw that in full swing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
I thought that was incredibly cool. And the ripple effect, though, is going to be vast. I've already seen the stores in Canada, pictures of the stores in Canada. that now have made in Canada signs over all their goods. They're relegating the American goods to other sections. People keep telling us people are checking all the products to see if they're made in America so that they don't buy them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
We're getting a lot of comments on our social media about this that says, well, that's too late that Donald Trump reversed this. You don't talk about our country like that. We are still boycotting American products. We've seen those by the thousands, thousands and thousands of comments like that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
We saw Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario, come out and cancel their massive multi-billion dollar contract with Starlink over this, saying we're not going to support companies who are owned by people who want to destroy our country. Let's see if that cancellation of those contracts remain. But those are all... devastating effects already against the United States from Canada, all for what?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
For nothing, to announce a deal that happened under the Biden administration, to announce things that were already going on. For what? For what reason? Why crash the markets? Why do all this? Just because you want to soothe your ego like a maniacal madman. It's just so ridiculous. It's so insane. But shout out to Canada for standing up and standing strong, I got to say.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
And Ben, I want to add this. There's a new energy right now. I could feel it. I know you all could feel it out there. And I think these last few weeks have woken a lot of people up. And I think looking at Canada, I think we could take a lot from their example that they just showed us up there, right? They showed us how to fight.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
They showed people how to rise up, how to fight back against fascism, how to push back against authoritarianism. Same thing with Mexico and Claudia Scheinbaum. This is an example that we all need to take, and especially our politicians. They need to take it also. And I think they're starting to wake up just a little bit, maybe slowly. the yawning stage. Oh, we've got to get enough of the bed.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
But we actually are starting to see finally some fight in them, like with this USAID issue. We saw them. We'll talk about that in this show also. But you see people waking up. You see people taking the streets. And I think our energy right now is at such a key point. And so we got to keep up this momentum and keep going because Donald Trump's weakness is showing right now more than ever.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
And it's because of you. It's because of you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
All right, real talk for a second. Why do we put up with uncomfortable clothes? I mean, it's 2025. We've got like self-driving cars and AI doing all sorts of wild stuff. And yet some pants still feel like they were designed by medieval blacksmiths. No, thanks. That's why I am obsessed with public rec.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Their pants are ridiculously comfortable, like sweatpants level comfort, but my favorite part is that they actually look good. No stiff seams, no weird bagginess, just perfectly tailored pants that move with you. Public Rec isn't just about pants either.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
They've got polos, shorts, hoodies, you know, the kind of stuff you can wear to work, to dinner, just lounge it at home without looking like you just rolled out of bed. And here's the best part, unlike other brands that just give you like small, medium, and large, Public Rec lets you pick your exact waist and inseam size so they fit like they were made for you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
After I got my first pair of Public Rec pants in the dark olive color, I literally went back on the site and bought them in every single color. True story. So this February, treat yourself right because comfort is always in season. Upgrade to Public Rec and feel the difference. For a limited time, you can get 20% off at Public Rec by using code MIDUS20 at checkout.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Just head to publicrec.com, use code MIDUS20, that's M-E-I-D-A-S-2-0, and you're all set. Oh, and when they ask how you found them, be sure to mention our show. It really helps us out. Find your perfect fit and never compromise on comfort again. Public Rec, where comfort rules.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
February is the month of love, but why let romance stop after Valentine's Day? Whether you're looking to turn up the heat in the bedroom or just unwind and enjoy the moment, Vaya has you covered.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
I've tried Vya's products and they truly stand out. They have these dreams sleep gummies that always help me unwind after a crazy day, and after covering all the chaos in the world every single day, trust me, it helps a ton.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
This month of love, elevate your love life with Vaya.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Eggs were way too expensive under Biden, but actually paying a lot of money, it's actually very patriotic. And we all have to pay more to support dear leader Trump, Ben. You know what I'm thinking? I'm liking when things were sleepy. You know, they tried to say Sleepy Joe as a little bit of an insult. I would like it when things were relaxing, when I could go to sleep at night.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Can you even imagine having a surplus? It seems like such a foreign concept. We had a surplus in the United States in the 90s. I know it's kind of long ago at this point, but it's not that long ago.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
That's what I like to consider Sleepy Joe. When I could go to sleep knowing that our country was in good hands. And right now it's just chaos, chaos, chaos every single day. Stunt after stunt after stunt. And it's sad because it has real world ramifications.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
When he plays these games like he just did with the tariff, he obviously tanked the market initially when he made the initial tariff threat and said they were going into effect. But he also ruined our relationship with our allies very quickly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
There's been a new story on this every week. CBS was the latest one to do this. They did the reporting on Trump's turning on the water valves today. So CBS reported that Trump almost flooded. You heard that right.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Trump almost flooded the Central Valley of California by instructing the Army Corps of Engineers to release billions of gallons of water from two reservoirs in California's Central Valley. Get this as well. If farmers did not talk the Army Corps into stopping the water flow, so they had to stop it, He turned it on. They had to stop it. There would have been serious flooding.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Farmers are now worried that the water they rely upon for the dry summer season has now been wasted, and the farmers are, quote, they say it is assumed to be lost, that Donald Trump just took the water that they were relying upon for later seasons when it gets drier, and he wasted it. He basically flushed it down the toilet. And now they're not able to use it in the future when it gets drier.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
And it's very disheartening to me to look at these images coming out of various countries to see Canada booing us or booing Trump, at least, and booing what's happening to our country at these sports arenas. And by the way, I stand in total solidarity with them on that. I want to be clear about that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
So he screwed over the farmers and he almost destroyed all their farms and the entire town by flooding it. Not only that, none of this, 0%, 0.0000% of this magical water that he's talking about turning on comes anywhere near California. It's not even in the same vicinity of California. It's not even the same region of California.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
There is not a single way to even get it from where it is to California. To Los Angeles. Sorry, to Los Angeles. Yeah, it's in California. See, Jordy, sometimes you get brain mush. What are you going to do? But to Los Angeles. And the thing is, all the firefighters are looking at this and they're going, we couldn't use this water for the fires. What are you doing? Like, this is the stupidest thing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Anybody who knows even a little bit about like the water policy in california or firefighting in california anyone has an expertise in in anything around those areas is speaking out loudly and going like this guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about i've seen memes about like elon musk and And I think probably about Trump too.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
It's kind of one of those rehash memes about people that says like – this one was I think specifically about Musk. But it was like when he talked about cars, I thought he was a genius because I don't know anything about cars. When he talked about coding, I assumed he was a genius because I don't know anything about coding.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
When he talked about my specialty, I realized, oh, this guy is a freaking moron. Knows nothing about anything. And I think that's always a big wake-up call to a lot of people this time when he's talking about this issue that actually a lot of people know quite about and deal with here in California and in Los Angeles. And you see that the guy is completely just making things up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
And not only that, worse, making the problem worse and making a dangerous situation that later on might be a devastating situation, quite frankly, for California, which he then blames on Gavin Newsom and Democrats and then does this whole big scheme again.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
But then looking across the world and seeing what the people of Greenland are saying about us, looking at what people of Denmark are saying about us, looking at what the folks down in Panama are doing, burning American flags, burning American dolls and effigy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
And you see the resentment that Donald Trump is creating with his bluster, with these stunts, with the nonstop drama that we just didn't have. America was the beacon of the world. We were a global leader. Donald Trump has removed our status as that, and he has allowed China, quite frankly, to fill the void and has really abdicated our leadership. I think it's very sad.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
But, you know, we could also cover everything, right? We got to keep our eye on the ball of what Donald Trump is doing, the destructive nature of what he's doing right now in our federal government. And so we're going to be keeping our eyes on that, everything Elon Musk is doing at Treasury, at USAID, at all these organizations, at all these agencies. We're going to be keeping track of all of it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
We're going to break it all down on this show. First, Jordi, how you doing?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Ben did win president of the school.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Yeah. And I want to be clear about one thing. The tax filing, it still exists. So if you need to file your taxes this year, e-file still currently exists as of this moment.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
but we don't know what's going to happen to it and it's certainly not a good sign that elon musk is saying that he quote deleted the team who's responsible for it and who built it and you know this is also probably just a shot at elizabeth warren as well he hates elizabeth warren because elizabeth warren has gone after him in the past for his uh business shady business activities and um and elizabeth warren ushered in the direct file system of the legislation a few years ago and this is like an extremely bipartisan
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Like people like it. Americans should be able to file their taxes for free. They should be able to do this in an easy way. And it's ridiculous that it took this long for it to happen. But it finally did happen during the Biden administration. And to rip this away from people, it's really absurd.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
It's it's something that, you know, literally I'm going to sound like that viral Biden line, but helps nobody hurts nobody. You know, it's. It's true. It helps. I mean, it helps everybody, hurts nobody. This is something that is just an asset for people to help them out, to pay their taxes to the government, to help them pay the government money. It should be as easy and streamlined as possible.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Our tax system is already as complicated as could be. In regards to the other language you were speaking about, Ben, the language of conquest that Donald Trump is using towards these countries who just want to live.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
um it's the language of an abuser you know when he's calling eu when he's saying they're abusive towards us when he's saying canada they are abusive towards us never has anybody in the history said you know who's really abusive towards us the the united states of america you know who really needs to get what they deserve Canada. Yep, Canada. That's right.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Never been said ever, maybe until Donald Trump said it, and now his brainless minions who follow him parrot his everything. The last point I want to make is how quickly the messaging changes from MAGA, depending on what Donald Trump says. He could literally say anything and they just go along.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
For the past few years, this whole MAGA movement pretended like they were this anti-interventionalist movement. You know, we should do our own thing. Other countries should do their own thing. You know, we shouldn't be helping other countries. We shouldn't be doing hurt another. We should just be, you know... Other countries' problems are their problems.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
We're just going to do our thing and we're just going to let everything be. Oh, wait, you want to help Ukraine by helping them not even getting into the war but helping them buy weapons, US weapons, which is going to actually make America more money? But you want to help out an ally so that Russia doesn't take over all of Europe? Oh, you're a warmonger. You're a warmonger.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
oh, but Donald Trump gets into office, all these people are like, like the way they speak, there was like a, I don't even know if I have it, but there's like a Tim Pool tweet out there that's like, Canada's gonna see the vengeance of the United States when we prevail in our imperialist ways and crush them underneath the wrath of a thousand fires. Like it's like a, that's not it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
I'm like paraphrasing one of his like crazy tweets, but it's that ridiculous is my like exaggeration of the tweet because all of a sudden now they're like, we're conquerors, right? We need to conquer the world. They went from America shouldn't intervene in any other country even just with aid and acting like Biden is some warmonger.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Well, by the way, Biden, even though there's this public perception that he did, didn't get us into any wars. The United States did not enter any wars. No American troops entered any wars and, in fact, was maybe the first president in –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
decades to actually get us out of wars by getting us out of afghanistan which ironically was the thing that kind of sunk his approval rating and he never recovered from and he got a whole lot of crap from um biden took us out of wars now donald trump is trying to spark confrontation with our allies like not even with people who are threatening us with canada with panama with columbia with greenland i mean with mexico you could go with the eu you could go on and on about the people that he is targeting right now and this whole mega movement now is all like yeah
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
we're going to conquer them all and America's going to manifest destiny this and, and it's just, they're all frauds. When you really look at it, they're all frauds. They believe nothing except raw power. And so you need to throw raw power back at them. You need to stand up to them because it's the only way that they are going to back down.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
It's the only way you got to stay strong and you got to understand that really in these cases, the emperor has no clothes and we are going to see that time and time again.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Here's the thing that bothers me, just to say very briefly. I'm going to put aside the fact that we already have an actual organization, or office rather, department within the government right now that is responsible for...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
way the money's managed and making sure there's no fraud and making sure that federal spending is happening appropriately and u.s government accountability office literally exists that's the real doge already exists doge is actually by its nature is inefficient but let's let's put that aside for a second if somebody like an elon musk actually came in and was like you know we're going to review things we we think that there's inefficiencies a lot of agencies have grown quickly and and we think that we could curb the bloat and see if there are any redundancies and and we're gonna we're gonna dig in and do that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
I would be like, okay, that sounds fair. But that's clearly not what he's doing. He's taking political vengeance and personal vengeance against certain agencies that he views as scorn to many people believe that one of the reasons that he's going at USAID with such force right now is because they played a pivotal role in ending apartheid in South Africa.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
So a lot of people think that Elon Musk is furious about their actions then, helping to eradicate apartheid, and so he is now trying to fight back against them there. And then it's also the language that Elon Musk uses, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
When Elon Musk is trying to investigate these agencies, if you were being an honest broker of the issues right here, you would say, okay, I'm gonna look in, I'll check the budgets, I'm gonna make sure, we'll do an audit, we'll make sure the numbers line up, we'll make sure everything's cool. Make sure that it's as efficient as possible.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
But what Elon Musk does is he goes online, he goes on Twitter and three, four, five, six, seven times a day calls the hardworking employees at these organizations criminals. He uses that word. He said, these are criminals. You are criminals. They are criminal. And that to me is such an escalation and it is so inappropriate. And it really...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
It shows his ulterior motives here, that they're really not in good faith at all. And he's also setting it up to try to use the government to weaponize the judicial system against people who disagree with them, to arrest people, to lock people up, and to do all sorts of things like that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
So they say one thing, but when you look at what they're actually doing and the way they're actually carrying things out, you always have to actually look at that because the way that Elon Musk is going about this, it's very fashy. It's very fascist. It's very authoritarian. And it's not something that you see in developed countries.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
It's not something you see certainly in the United States of America, you know, I guess until now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
You know, we remember the Republicans taking those actions, you know, all throughout the Biden administration, holding things up. And of course, you know, the thing that we always also have to remember, because, you know, it's we don't also become the people who just say do something, do something, do something, do something, do something when things are maybe impossible to be done.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
But we need to do everything that can be done, you know, and go up to that line at all times. And this is a tactic that is important because we have to realize what this tactic is. This is a good example right here with this tactic, right? It's going to delay Donald Trump's state nominees. It's going to frustrate the hell out of Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
It's tactically a very smart thing that they should be doing. Republicans would 100% be doing it if anybody was pulling something one hundredth of what Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing. We have to understand at the end of the day, those nominees will still probably get through, right? The Democrats don't have the majority, but Democrats need to flex their power where they have it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
If they have the ability to delay these nominations right now, Take it. Look for every opportunity that you can right now to make these people's lives hell. Take it. Show that you're defending the American people. Show that you're defending these federal workers. Show that you're defecting the humanitarian aid. People view these things positively.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
As Ben said, popular issues and good policy, and it's the right thing to do. So do it. Don't be afraid.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
trade war war threats they added another 10 to 15 000 troops across the border you better take a look at this look at look what i was just able to find look at this on the canadian government website from what's that date let me let me squint at that date for a second december 17th 2024 the government of canada announces an investment of what the exact amount of this deal
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
From Donald Trump, $1.3 billion to bolster border security and strengthen the immigration system and contribute to Canada's future prosperity to help detect and disrupt the fentanyl trade. And what the language matches exactly with Justin Trudeau's tweet that he put out about the deal with Donald Trump. How did he time travel back to December 17th to post, oh, the deal was already in place.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Donald Trump, literally made a deal to return us to the status quo of the things that were already happening. This is the dumbest thing ever. He needed to declare a win. And when you like go through exactly what Trump did here, it is just like the most pathetic thing. I'll recap it for you. We recap things here at Midas Touch, right Ben? Did a quick little recap. Trump announces the tariffs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Our allies turn against us. They launch boycotts on U.S. products, which, by the way, are still ongoing in Canada. We'll get to that again and we'll get to that some more in a second. They boo us at events. You saw the clips yesterday and today in arenas and the Toronto Arena and the Calgary Arena and the Ottawa Arena and more of Canadian fans booing the U.S. during the national anthem.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
because they are outraged over the way that our government is treating them, booing our government, I should say. Canadians like the people of the United States, at least the ones who didn't vote for Trump. And then the markets nosedive today. We saw a huge crash when the markets opened. We saw the futures market absolutely devastated. Trump gets nervous. Trump caves.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Trump rushes to call the president of Mexico. He rushes to call the prime minister of Canada to make a deal. He needs to show something. He needs to show a win, right? It's the same things he did, by the way, back in when he won in 2016. Same exact strategy. So how does he show a win? Well, he has to say that he got them to concede on these issues.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
And so what are the concessions, the concessions that are made? Mexico agrees to do literally the same things they always do at the border.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
the same things they always do things they did under biden and biden didn't have to cause an economic um and political crisis in order to do this he just spoke to them and they agreed to do this you know like normal allies do and so here's one of the interesting things also though
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico actually pulled one over on Donald Trump because in addition to her saying that she is going to do the things that Mexico already does, she got Trump to agree. And Trump's word isn't exactly worth anything, but she got Trump to agree that the United States was going to look into weapons trafficking from the United States into Mexico.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Now, what's interesting about that also? Well, when you read the two sides of the deal, Claudia Scheinbaum, by the way, the most brilliant move, and Justin Trudeau did this as well, got out in front of it before Donald Trump announced this side of the deal. So they took to social media right away when the deal was made. They announced exactly what was in the deal.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Claudia Scheinbaum mentioned all the components, right? She mentioned the 10,000 troops, which were always there. She mentioned the 10,000 troops. She also mentioned the weapons trade, the arms trade from the United States into Mexico. Donald Trump writes up his little post on his app. He fails to mention the weapons trade. He fails to mention that Claudia Scheinbaum got him to agree to her terms.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
that was mysteriously left out and so i think as we see all these things and it was one of the things you guys that we were talking about actually on this very show last week it was the need to understand that donald trump's statements and press releases from the white house are not to be trusted and you have to view these as if they are truth social posts oftentimes they are true social posts like this one was a truth social post and so what the media needs to do and what
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
listeners of news, what consumers of news need to do in order to be healthy consumers of news is to understand that what Donald Trump's saying is probably not the truth and not to buy his spin and to understand that whatever he is putting out is simply his propaganda and that there is always going to be a truth underneath it, likely that refutes exactly what he is saying.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
So in this case, he tries to act tough, say he got these concessions when in fact, He got actually absolutely nothing. And he is now just repeating deals that were already negotiated during the Biden administration and trying to claim them as a win for himself. You know, it's just the same old scheme every single time. And at the end of the day, I mean, you got to just tell it how it is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump FOLDING + MORE
Like Trump caved here. He totally, totally caved.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And you could either accept the fact that that's what they think of you, or you could actually do your own research, as I'm sure many of you say, and actually look up the facts. Spending is coming in 7.4% higher this year than last year. Higher this year than last year. That's what it's on pace for. And it was not on pace for that under President Biden. I want that to be clear as well.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
So while you hear about all these cuts and stuff, it's why they also highlight like this, like... these very tiny things like we canceled everybody's Adobe Photoshop subscriptions. I'm like, okay, what are we doing here, people? Like now, okay, now the people who need to make graphics can't make graphics. Now you canceled Microsoft Word for people so they can't like open documents.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Like that's not making the government more efficient. It's making government less efficient. And you're using that as cover to literally steal from people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Jordan, did you see that with the outfit? I mean, in the words of everybody, I guess, from a few weeks ago, he... You even got a suit, Kid Rock? You got a suit when you're in there in the Oval Office? I guess not. It looks like we got Ben back. Ben, welcome back to the show. I'll let you continue your intro.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Mr. President, have you had any updates on the U.S. soldiers missing in Lithuania? I have. Can you give us an update?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
your description of what went down by the way if you're if you're wondering like did he give sympathy to the families did he show any sort of heart or care at all that these soldiers died the answer is no the answer is no that just that was it and it's just so appalling to me and you know damn well if
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
any situation like this happened during the Biden administration, that they would try to make this a huge, massive controversy. They would attack President Biden for it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And that would even be if President Biden did what he would do in this situation, which is take responsibility, send his regards to the families, handle this through proper military protocols, actually be honest with the American people, actually be briefed on this in the first place, and not have to be told and say, I don't know anything about this. And then a week later, come out with a
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I'm talking about leveling up your kitchen game and finally tossing that scratched up sad excuse for a pan you've been clinging to since college. Because once I got my hands on Hexclad, I knew that there was no going back. You guys know I take my cooking seriously. This stuff is like if a cast iron skillet and a spaceship had a baby.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
You get the durability of stainless steel, the nonstick magic of modern cookware, and it just looks sexy. No more scraping burnt food like it's the 90s. Just perfect sears, effortless cleanup, and straight into the dishwasher. You cannot beat it. And let's not forget their Japanese Damascus steel knives. These things are works of art. 67 layers,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
the big special elections in florida the supreme court race in wisconsin i was describing how naturally elon musk went to wisconsin to buy those votes so we've got a lot to discuss brothers and midas mighty today a lot to discuss but ben jordy it's great to be here it's great to be here might as mighty great to always be here speaking to the listeners of the midas touch podcast the viewers of the midas touch podcast and today we're even trying something a little different too um we are actually also at the same time live on tick tock i'm live on tick tock
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
of razor sharp premium Japanese steel that make prep work effortless. You feel like a pro just holding one. Oh, and the best part, Hexclad comes with a lifetime warranty. That's right. Buy it once and you are set for life. So stop paying delivery fees and start cooking like a pro. For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off with our exclusive link. Just head to hexclad.com slash Midas.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
That's H-E-X-C-L-A-D.com forward slash Midas, M-E-I-D-A-S. Let them know we sent you. Bon appetit. Let's eat with Hexclad's revolutionary cookware.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Because their whole thing is just own the lips, right? They don't actually have any tangible things that they want to do to help the American people. It's all destroy. It's all just try to ruin people's lives. They have no vision for the future. And I think that's something that people need to hone in on a little more. They have zero vision for actually what they want to do.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
They just know that they want to tear it all down. and the more they piss off the libs the more they make people angry the happier they are which is why they live in this meme culture where they post disgusting memes like that and they just try to antagonize you right that's like their whole thing and this is why also like i try to say like It's okay to laugh at things.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
It's okay to lead with humor. It's okay to be able to step aside and live your life and be with your family because what these authoritarians want is they want to wear you down. They want you to feel like crap. They want you to feel hopeless.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And when you laugh at them, when you mock them, when you actually are enjoying yourself, that's actually one of the biggest kind of weapons that could possibly be used against them. And so don't let them take your joy at all costs. Never let them take that part of
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
There's a story, Jordy, and you could Google it and you're gonna go, holy shit.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
so hello tick tock hello to the audience we're trying to reach as many people as possible try to do new things because this message needs to get out there we are going up against let's face it the oligarchs right that's what this movement is going up against right now the billionaires who just have endless funds and they are trying to manipulate all of our lives in the worst ways with their money and we are seeing that in wisconsin right now elon musk basically running back
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
The Green Bay- Green Bay sweep. And then he Green Bay sweeped himself on off to federal prison.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I want to be clear, too, like Thank you Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
the same thing that he did during the 2024 election in Wisconsin in the most shameless ways, handing out million-dollar checks to people, literally paying people to even attend his event in Wisconsin. We're going to cover that. We're going to try to cover all these races, those special elections, so important. Donald Trump threatening, promising tariffs on everybody in the next 24, 48 hours. He
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I think that's going to screw Americans Day, maybe that screw up the entire world economy day. We're going to see what happens with that. But these next 48 hours, quite frankly, are going to be very consequential as we see all the twists and turns, all the developments that are happening. These are going to affect.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
possibly the next few years, possibly the next few decades, as we see what unfolds in the courts in Florida with tariffs. It's all incredibly consequential. We're going to be covering all of it right here on the Midas Touch Podcast. Jordy, always a pleasure to see you here. What's new?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
the audience there's jordy's not wearing pants like i i guess he thought he could fool everybody he didn't realize legs on camera you may want to it's the shorter shorts that may want to that's the style these days brothers y'all don't know you're not hip i'm the youngest one i you guys i recommend before you do a leg shot yeah
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And by the way, then, the end justifies the means, I think, to them in this as well, right? Because all they care about is raw, unadulterated power. They want to get it at all costs. They don't care about doing these schemes in order to get it. And so even with Elon's schemes surrounding the general election, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
His gamble was, if this works, I may have committed potentially some crimes here by buying votes, essentially, but I won't be prosecuted under a Trump administration. And oh, and by the way, all the other violations all my companies are committing, all the investigations that are going on into my companies, those will go away as well. So Elon made that calculation there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I think he's making the same calculation here in Wisconsin. And I think the people need to show up. I think a message that we've seen resonating throughout the country over these past special elections that we've seen, like the ones in Pennsylvania, that nobody ever thought Democrats would win at any chance. But the candidates there, they ran on an explicitly anti-oligarch, anti-Elon Musk platform.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
i think that's been proving at least at this point to be an effective a to be a potent message out there because guess what i don't think people like having their votes bought off by billionaires i don't think they like billionaires coming on in from the outside their state to tell them what to do because it's going to help the billionaires and screw over the people and i think finally folks are waking up to this and especially in these midterm elections when you see folks who are um the people are showing up to these elections are people who vote the most
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
who also tend to lean Democratic in these races. I think you're seeing an extra urgency right now, more organizing in order to make sure that people get out the vote to tell Elon Musk, to tell Donald Trump, to tell all the oligarchs, absolutely not. We will not let you do this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
by a record margin like ben do you remember all the headlines that we would wake up to during the biden administration where it would be like u.s leads the world in gdp growth you know post covert recovery u.s leads the world in employment u.s leads the world in this leads the world that u.s beating china for the first time in 50 years these were the stories we would wake up to every day under the biden administration then fox would tell us why it was all horrible
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Now the stories we wake up to are this. We wake up to that the European markets are way ahead of us. We're waking up to that there are these alliances forming, that China is now the world leader, and they are actually being quite smart because they're going out to people who have previously been like not their friends and are going, hey, let's get together. We got to get against this guy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
They're even going to Europe and they're going, we could figure out some trade stuff between us. We don't need the United States anymore. You have the Canadians boycotting the U.S. and shout out to the Canadians. We are in full solidarity with all you and everybody who Donald Trump keeps coming after. I mean, it's a disgrace to us.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And then he has the nerve to, in these conversations with the press, you see Donald Trump often go, we are now more respected than we've ever been. We're the most respected nation now. It's completely different. And it's actually, no, we're actually the opposite, okay? We're a freaking clown show. Everybody thinks that we are, it's just completely embarrassing. Everybody thinks we look like fools.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And it's just, the whole thing is embarrassing, quite frankly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
One of the things that they're always going to try to do, and they're going to continue this throughout this entire administration, is they want to try to put you in this hard-to-answer question or this situation that they think is a hard thing to answer. Like with Doge, for example, their whole thing is – oh, so you don't want the government to be efficient.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Oh, so you like waste and abuse and fraud. They always try to frame it in a way to try to get your back against the wall because they want to be able to do the indefensible and have zero resistance to that. I say, fuck that. Don't let them do that because they're going to do that for everything. So I've heard so many sort of
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
You know, strategy, political strategists and stuff say, oh, this isn't the fight that you want to take.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
You don't want to rail against those because the people are going to think you're against government efficiency or you don't want to rail against what Donald Trump's doing with the Alien Enemies Act because they're going to think you support gang members in the country and unfettered immigration and that you want gang members to be in people's towns and cities and violent murderers.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I just don't accept that framing whatsoever. I think it is imperative that we all speak out over these issues and acknowledge, yes, no, we don't want gang members here. Yes, of course, we want the government to be efficient. But we don't believe that you should be allowed to kidnap a human being because they have a tattoo that says mom on their wrist.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
and send them to an El Salvadoran prison without due process. That is not okay. This is a human rights issue. This is the kind of stuff that some of the most vile dictators have done in history. And I will not stand by silent because people think it might be politically expedient to and say nothing when we are witnessing these horrors of this administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I think this message is getting through to people. I mean, you even saw today, you know, it reached, maybe he was just intimidated by our, uh, our podcast numbers, but even saw Joe Rogan go, oh, this is kind of screwed up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
He like, Rogan was like, yeah, no, it's actually, this isn't cool that they're just rounding up random people that they sent this barber to El Salvador and torture prison camp because he had a tattoo. Like, that's not cool. When you hear a guy like that saying that, You're kind of like, okay, this is kind of breaking through a little bit because it's so obvious. That's the thing to me too.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
You know, Ben, I told you, like, upgrade from dial-up. Like, the people aren't using dial-up anymore. Perhaps, you know, cable or something, you know. But you can do your dial-up. It's all good. It's all good.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
These things to me are so clear. It is truth versus lies. It is morality versus immorality. And we need to stand on the side of the truth. We need to stand on the side of morals. We need to stand on the side of the law and point out how these people are breaking the law every single day, how they are violating every single principle that this nation is is supposed to be about.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And we need to call them out for being un-American and inhumane every single day and do it unapologetically. Stop worrying about, oh, well, then they're going to try to tell you so that you're into this, that you're into that. No, I'm sorry. Lead with your values. Speak up for people and show some conviction.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Speaking of conviction, I don't want to end this episode without giving a shout out to Cory Booker right now, who is giving a delivering an old-fashioned filibuster right now on the Senate floor. He said he's going to speak until he physically cannot anymore to protest the Trump and Musk regime.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
So we haven't been able to tune into him because we've been doing this show live, but just wanted to give him a shout out for doing something and speaking truth to power on the Senate floor. It's so important right now. Do not back down.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Yeah, you know, and I think the messaging is becoming pretty clear around the country right now. It's, do you really want to live in a country where billionaires are allowed to just buy elections in this fashion? I would put this back even before Elon Musk, I would go back to the ruling of Citizens United. which allowed these unlimited campaign contributions.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I think every politician out there should be very outspoken against the Citizens United ruling because it has led to the rot that we see in our country today, the rot that brought Donald Trump to power, the rot that brought Elon Musk into the Oval Office that allowed him to buy his way into the Oval Office and then use his power to destroy the lives of Americans.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
I think one of the things that is like the most
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
not baffling because it's just like it goes with everything that trump would always do and musk always does is that despite ruining all these people's lives despite all the chaos that they have caused despite throwing our entire country into chaos what have we seen that federal spending is actually more now than it ever was far more than it was under biden increasing at greater rates than it was under biden
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
So while you see them trying to brag about all these various cuts, first off, I want everybody to know that all these cuts are basically bullshit. When you look at the Doge website and they have all these big numbers, we saved $250 billion here and there. When you actually put them under a tiny bit of a microscope, they're actually all fake. It's a fraud. It's a scheme. It's a scam. It's a fraud.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
That's what they're doing right now. And then they try to dangle out things to the American people to try to get them to support it. Have you heard? We might allow, we might send out Doge checks. Don't you want a Doge check? Yeah, with all the money we're saving from Doge, from taking away your grandmother's social security, you might get a few thousand bucks in the mail.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
Major Supreme Court race in Wisconsin, major special elections in Florida. You know, sometimes Ben's internet cuts out here on the Midas Touch Network. It happens. but it happens when you're live. It happens, but that's okay. The point is we have a whole lot to speak about on this episode of the Midas Touch Podcast. It is great to see everybody here today. Kid Rock in the Oval Office.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
So you stick a, and we even saw people at this Elon Musk event that happened yesterday. We saw people, there was literally somebody who asked a question to Elon Musk. So when are we getting those Doge checks? And he was like, actually, the Doge checks, they got to go to Congress and they got,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
You know, there's a process and I don't know, you know, you're going to have to ask Congress about that one because they dangle these things out to scam people. And it's just so incredibly atrocious. It's so manipulative.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/1/25
And we've been saying this on like all of our past episodes, but stop falling for the con people, you know, like as a supporter, if you're a supporter of Elon Musk or Donald Trump, at a certain point, you got to go, these people are lying to me. These people think I'm stupid.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
How to Fight Back with Messaging Guru Anat Shenker-Osorio
This is Brett Mycelis from Midas Touch, and welcome to this week's edition of the Midas Meetup series. This is a live interview series we've been doing every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern, 10 a.m. Pacific time, live on our substack. You could watch this live every single Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern, 10 a.m. Pacific.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
How to Fight Back with Messaging Guru Anat Shenker-Osorio
This is an interview series, and we've been bringing on some of the most brilliant thinkers in the space. So today we are especially excited to welcome Anat Shankarasario to the show. She is a political messaging guru extraordinaire and strategist. Anat, welcome to the show.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Fox News in Complete Panic as Trump Can't Be Saved
So I guess, although businesses on wall street and you know them well, um, They're skeptical. Consumer confidence, they look at, went down seven points in February. They see jittery feelings in the U.S. economy, and they wonder whether this is going to boomerang back on U.S. consumers. I guess the feeling, do you hear that from businesses when they talk about tariffs?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
They need to live in this 1984 world where truth is in truth. And so they cannot let the truth go out to Donald Trump. They cannot let them know of a U.S. military failure. They cannot let them know any bad news that hurts Donald Trump, and that would be sad.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
So now there's more news that this is causing more tension in the relationship between Donald Trump and Mike Walsh because Donald Trump did not know about this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
So on top of the war leaks where Mike Walz had a reporter in the chat where it appears that Mike Walz may be one of the biggest leakers of the Trump White House, on top of that, Donald Trump also discovers that there is this news story out there that he has not heard about until now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
And even now, after hearing about it, no statement, no comment about the families, no comment about the soldiers, no comment about what they were doing, if they were doing training, if they're on a mission, what the heck is going on?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Nobody knows because right now we have a commander in chief who is just a liar, who does not want to acknowledge anything bad and just wants to wreak havoc on the American public and torture the American public.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
whether he he doesn't care to or his people are too scared to give him the information and beyond policy jordy you know this is the thing that's always bothered me the most about maga that in order to support donald trump you need to be willing to put all facts and reality aside and to just accept whatever donald trump says you have to be all in on the cult
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
and i don't know how if you view yourself ironically these people go i'm an independent thinker i think for myself i don't listen to the mainstream media i don't listen to them i just i'm an independent figure you're all saying the same all the time so i think you're actually just parroting whatever donald trump says but okay but in order to support this movement you have to just accept
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
And it's almost like I feel embarrassed for you. I have secondhand embarrassment that you are trying to pretend like the war plans that we are seeing, that were very detailed when you read them, Ben, that those war plans are not war plans. That's going to be your line, really. That's what you're going to tell me.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
you're going to just tell me all these blatant lies by the way you're the one who are falling for you are the mark you're being lied to like you should be embarrassed that they think you are so stupid honestly like it's you should be offended you should watch watch fox news and we'll play you know probably in a little bit jesse waters on fox talking about this stuff you should be embarrassed that this guy thinks so low of you that he thinks you are such an idiot that he thinks that he could get away with lying to your face
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
I think it was pretty spot on. I'll say this one thing. In a world where there are so many stories, there's so much news, right, that we try to break down every single week, right? A lot comes and goes, right? There are a lot of crazy stories that come and two days pass and all of a sudden you're like, that feels like weeks ago.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Then there are certain stories that I think I would refer to as like sticky stories, the stories that don't go away, the stories that really do some damage. Those are the stories that exist in all administrations, right? The Biden debate, that was a Biden sticky story. That was something that did not go away.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Right now, we have one of the first, if not the first, sticky stories of the Trump administration. And it is this controversy, not only of the war plan leaks, but of the cover-up, which is still ongoing and is just so obvious and so atrocious that a lot of people, even people who are inclined to support Trump and MAGA, are going, don't bullshit a bullshitter, man. This is not normal.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
This is weird behavior. So let's just keep an eye on this and everything that's going on. It's an interesting situation.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
here's the best part these don't cost 200 150 or even 100 the perfect jean is just 79.99 and honestly worth every penny the fit is spot on they've got sizes for everyone and they actually make me want to wear jeans again For a limited time, our listeners get 15% off their first order plus free shipping at theperfectgene.nyc or Google The Perfect Gene and use code MIDAS15 for 15% off.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
That's 15% off for new customers at theperfectgene.nyc with promo code MIDAS15. M-E-I-D-A-S-1-5. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. F your khakis and get The Perfect Gene. Okay, you ever sign up for a free trial, forget about it, and then realize you've been charged for months?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Yeah, me too, and I just found out that 85% of people have at least one paid subscription that they're not even using. That's why Rocket Money has been a game changer for me, and I know it will be for you as well. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
I saw all my subscriptions in one place and Rocket Money made it easy to cancel the ones I didn't need anymore. Rocket Money's dashboard gives you a clear view of your expenses across all of your accounts, so you could create a personalized budget, get alerts if your bills go up or if you're close to going over budget, and even use their new goals feature to automatically save for what matters
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
whether it's paying off debt or building your savings. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They handle customer service so you don't have to. Honestly, that's the part that always stresses me out the most, so I love that Rocket Money handles all that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
RocketMoney has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to rocketmoney.com slash MidasTouch today. That's rocketmoney.com slash MidasTouch. rocketmoney.com slash MidasTouch.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
a lot to unpack and we're gonna unpack it all brett here with the midas touch podcast great to be here with the brothers great to be here with everybody listening everybody watching thank you for subscribing on audio on spotify on apple on all the things rating it five stars we appreciate it fear and loathing in mar-a-lago fear and loathing
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
in the trump white house that is the theme of the day and that's what we are seeing and we noted on the last episode this seismic shift that we were seeing on the ground we've of course that we have seen the town halls over these past few weeks but there was certainly an energy shift a seismic event that occurred over the past weekend when we saw these bernie sanders rallies
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
These AOC rallies, there has been a major... Donald Trump's administration has been put on the defense as a result of these war plan leaks, where now the cover-up is getting worse than the crime, as it often does. The Trump administration... is trying to pull a full 1984 on US citizens. Remember that quote from 1984, the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
It was their final, most essential command. Well, that is exactly what they are trying to do right now here with these war plan texts saying, oh, they weren't warp leaks. They weren't plans. We didn't have any times in it. It's like, bro, we actually see, we have the texts, okay? We see what happened. So at least take responsibility. Say you're going to fix the problem and move on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Those are fresh. Jordy's pulling out the cowboy boots for the audio listeners.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
But don't lie to my face and think and act like I am stupid. Your followers may want to believe that. Your followers may want to shovel in your lies and eat that all up as Fox shovels in their bullshit in people's faces. But not us. Uh-uh. Not here at the Midas Touch Network. A lot to unpack, folks. Oh, my gosh. Let's get into it first. We've got to check in with Jordy. Jordy, what's up?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
yeah and do the democrats have a lot of work to do yes but are the reports of the democrats demise a little early yes as well and i think here's the biggest way to gauge the true feelings of the trump regime and the true feelings of the right-wing media ecosystem so
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
they could say all they want right they could spout all the bs they want but look to their actions look what they are doing and and it will tell a big story when you see the pulling of elise stefanik in her district where where they're the fact that they're worried about her seat in a special election which is what what was it been plus 20 something or or to that effect 21.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
plus 21 Trump district. When you see them pulling back on her nomination and admitting it is because of that. When you see them sputtering and being unable to explain the war leaks and telling people that what you're seeing is not actually what you're seeing and you see Fox going, oh, you shouldn't really care about, no one really cares about this, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
I mean, Donald Trump, he'll get another touchdown soon and we'll all just forget about it. When you see the actions that they are all taking,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
It tells a very clear story to me, and that's that they are much weaker than they are leading on, that they are much weaker than the corporate media is leading on about them, and that just means we need to all double down our efforts and continue to make our voices heard. Because once they get trapped in these scenarios, it's like quicksand, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
They try to – and I think we're going to see this a lot with this administration actually, right? They're going to try to dig themselves out, but the faster they go, the more they lie, the more they try to twist and confuse and try to throw all this crap out there that is so obvious, not maybe to the cultist cultist, but to a majority of the American people themselves.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
the more they are going to sink into that quicksand. And we are already seeing it. And that is just going to accelerate as they continue with this failing strategy. Love to see the world stepping up. Elbows up, Canada. Shout out to all of our Canadian listeners. Shout out to all the people over in Greenland. Hope we got some Greenland listeners as well. I love... What? Yeah, I love seeing...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
I love seeing everybody standing up for democracy, standing up for their sovereignty, and standing up against this Trump regime. It's a great sight.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
And think about what's coming up, Jordy, too. Big major protests on April 5th. Get ready for that. We'll be covering all the protests here at the Midas Touch Network. Get ready for these special elections in Florida. And I got to tell you, you know, because these are hard races. I'm not going to lie. These are hard races.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
And many were saying even if Josh Wheel came within points, even if he came within five points. in that race against Randy Fine in Florida, that that would be a major warning sign for the Republican Party and for Donald Trump. And the latest poll we are seeing from Donald Trump's own pollster, the own pollster, is that Josh Wheel now is actually leading in that race. So we will see what happens.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
It was great having him on the show. We're going to continue to highlight pro-democracy candidates like him on the show, like Judge Crawford on the show, making sure we use our platform
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
This is why it's so important that all of us collectively as a community here, all of the listeners, all the viewers, us here doing the shows, everybody at the Midas Touch Network, it's why it's so important that we are never afraid to call out the lies. Always call out the lies because the lies are, it's more than just a white lie about something. It's much bigger than that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
It's much more pernicious than that. when you see them using these lies as predicate to whisk people out of this country to abduct them to send them out of this country to el salvadoran prison camps based on nothing by just saying you're a gang member you're a gang member no i'm not i don't care i said you're a gang member So you're going to this prison camp.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
You see these sick, dehumanizing videos with Christine O'Mall. She has her, what appears to be a $60,000 Rolex standing in front of people who are in these cages, who, by the way, they throw on the ground, they shave their heads, they take off their shirts, they treat like animals. And I'm sure there are a lot of bad people in that group. I'm sure there are a lot of gang members in that group.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
I'm sure there are. But you know who else is in that group? A whole lot of innocent people because no one in that group was entitled to the due process that we are supposed to have. And if you are, if you consider yourself an American, I don't care if you're a Republican. I don't care if you're a Democrat. I don't care if you're independent. I don't care if you're not political.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
This is not the way that America is supposed to work. Executives in this country are not supposed to have this sort of unilateral power for good reason because this is the kind of stuff that happened in Nazi Germany. This is the kind of stuff that happens in Russia. They always find a predicate. They always find a lie in order to –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
carry out their agenda no matter how heinous and dehumanizing it is. I mean, we see even when you look at the Mahmoud Khalil situation, Colombia, when you see the Turkish student, the video of that student, the tough student, university student who was whisked off the street in one of the most horrifying videos that I have seen simply because this person who was here on a legal visa
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
attended a pro-Palestine protest, so they took her off the street. You see this video, it looks like the Gestapo pulling somebody off the street, throwing them in a car. I mean, this is like the sickest stuff that we are seeing. And the Trump administration has decided that they could make up any lie, say whatever they want. They could just be like, yeah, you were anti-American.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Yeah, you hate this country. Yeah, you... do whatever they want to say. You're a gang member. They just make up whatever they want. And then they use that as enough reason to just chuck somebody in a van, arrest them, send them to a prison camp overseas. No, it's not okay. I will never accept it as okay. I will never both sides this either and say, oh, well, they got this point over here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
And then this people are saying this thing. So the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of those two things. No, this is wrong. We're going to continue to call it out. Say it's wrong. Shout out to all the journalists. Shout out to Mother Jones.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Shout out to all the people who are uplifting these various stories and uncovering what is happening in these prisons and the true identities of these people who have been abducted by the United States government.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
we're going to continue to report on it all here but i think everybody here should also be proud of the momentum shift of the fact that this information is getting out there despite what this regime is doing so shout out to you all um this has been a fun show we covered a whole lot of stuff um remember to add the midas touch podcast on apple podcast and spotify leave us a five star review if you can i gotta say i told the story earlier on social media but the
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
the rogan folks and the mega folks they got really upset by all the uh the press that the midas such podcast got they tried to review bomb us with all these one-star reviews but this community went in and gave a bunch of five-star reviews and our review actually our rating actually increased on all the podcast apps after they tried this coordinated attack and that's thanks to you so let's keep the energy going apple podcast spotify thanks to everyone listening thanks for sharing this with a friend
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Just thanks for all your support. It really means a lot that these messages are getting out there in the world and that this momentum continues to build. Jordy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
They're like, he's the most untrustworthy guy on the planet. He's the scum of the earth. No one should ever talk to him ever. And we added him into our group chat while we were planning war plans. It's like,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
This was supposed to be just principles, Jordy. So this was supposed to be the top brass discussing this. And these are not things top brass are supposed to be discussing over signal chat.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
Sometimes people just get sucked in. They just get sucked on in, right? And then you had Trump in the Oval Office being like, yeah, we need to investigate these platforms. We need to investigate Signal to see how this could have happened. No, actually, no, you don't need to investigate anything. The evidence of the crime is right here. Sorry.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
about the fact that y'all added this guy to your war plans chat and he's the editor-in-chief from the atlantic who you most likely have been a source for which is why he's in your number to be 150 and by the way i think this is the real reason why mike waltz is actually scared about this story and why he feels like should i resign maybe i should he's decided not to for now at least um but
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
i think it's very clear especially we'll get into this venmo story but basically mike wallace's venmo was public as well all these people just have public passwords their venmo passwords were all over the internet and mike wallace's venmo account had all of his friends which experts say like this could ease this is information that is easily exploited by foreign governments like russia they had all of it laid out all of his contacts
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
And many of his contacts, dozens if not hundreds, were journalists in his phone, journalists who Donald Trump trashes and calls fake news all the time. And there was a quote in the Jeffrey Goldberg Atlantic story that I found very revealing, where he said when he received a message from Mike Waltz, it didn't seem like it was anything out of the ordinary.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
I'm paraphrasing, but he said something along those lines. To me, that says, yes, Mike Waltz is a source and he is leaking like a sieve. Mikey the mole baby in the White House. And Donald Trump does not like people who leak to the press. He's the only person who's allowed to leak to the press, whether it's, you know, whoever the reporter is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
But the fact that Waltz clearly seems like a leaker in the White House, I think that's going to make Donald Trump very uneasy. It's going to make this relationship very tense, whether Waltz stays or not.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
and not acknowledging the death of american soldiers horrific it's atrocious this is one of those things too where uh you know if something like this were to happen under a president biden this would have been non-stop maga twitter fox news they would have made this into like benghazi x a thousand right this would have been their biggest story they would have never stopped talking about it and by the way president biden in this hypothetical scenario would have had a very thoughtful response he would have acknowledged
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/28/25
the missing soldiers who are presumed to be dead at this point uh he would have known about it he would have been briefed on it but this is one of the problems when you have a narcissist in chief as well and pathetic people around him were just sycophants because none of them actually want to break the news to him none of them even want to tell him bad news because like i started off with the 1984 quote on this episode
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
right it's also bizarre that they're making all these government edicts on twitter like how are people even supposed to get these messages like he just assumes that everybody is on twitter all the time and following his messages works in the federal government that's just kind of a weird thing uh to begin with and that's what happens when you go through and just try to like destroy everything i've seen the way these tech people view the world is through the lens of how they view the tech world and there's that phrase you know you know you got to break stuff or whatever the phrase is right
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
That doesn't work with the federal government. When you turn off things on Twitter, there are glitches that happen. Your DMs don't work. Your retweets may stop working. When you turn off things with the government, people lose their health care. People die. Parks aren't protected. Parks go on fire. Airplanes start crashing. Food gets poisoned.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
That's what happens when you break things in the government. And that's why you can't use that strategy in the federal government, even if it is, maybe it does work in the tech world. Maybe it is a disruptor thing. Doesn't work in the federal government. And I think they're finding that out every day. And just like how cavalier they are about it is what drives me absolutely crazy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
They try to act that they're being transparent when they're anything but it. They're putting all these fake numbers on the Doge website, which every time reporters are looking at it, they'll say, we saved $66 billion. And the reporters will be like, no, it's actually $6 billion. and even that doesn't look quite right. And then they just act like, oh, oops, we turned off the Ebola.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
What are we going to do? We turned it back on. Everything's okay. Then we find out that that is a lie also, that things were actually severely damaged as a result of Elon Musk getting rid of the Ebola funding. And it's just one thing after the next, after the next. One scam on top of one scam on top of one scam, just like we would expect from Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
The latest scam then, of course, is the one that You were referencing earlier with the gold cards, they're calling it. And they're going to use this, and all the Republicans are going to use this, including MAGA Mike Johnson, to say that, oh, you might see all these numbers. I want you to be prepared for it because they're already starting it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
You're going to see all these numbers about major deficit spending. You're going to see all these numbers about the debt skyrocketing to levels that we've never seen before in American history. But once those gold cards kick in, oh, it's going to be a gravy train in this country where you're all going to be getting money. Everyone's going to be, it's going to be a boon to this country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
It's a scam. This is like literal snake oil that they are selling you and they expect people to believe it. I just hope people are starting to see through this con. Because it's such an in-your-face con. I mean, this puts multi-level marketing schemes to shame. This puts like Bernie Madoff to shame. This is a con on such a massive level right now. And I just hope that people don't fall for it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And that's why even reporting this stuff, I think you need to report it with clarity like that and not accept these as real premises. Not to run your headline as like, Mike Johnson suggests that the gold cards are going to pay for the deficits. Don't even like allow them to put that lie in the headline like they want. because it is totally bogus.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Cozy comfort food like big batch beef stroganoff to lighter dishes like salmon and creamy mustard dill sauce tray bake. There's literally something for every single mood. And my absolute favorite recently, their beef noodle soup with bok choy. I made it last night. I had that moment where I just stared at my plate like, damn, I'm good.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
It looked incredible, smelled amazing, and more importantly, tasted like something out of a restaurant. And the best part, Marley Spoon just launched their new 15-minute express recipes. Yep, dinner in 15 minutes. So even on nights when I'm feeling extra lazy, I have zero excuses. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Yeah, you know, this Epstein thing is honestly, you know, it's obviously a dark subject matter. But the fact that they are in this situation right now, there's definitely a lot of humor to it. They are the dog that caught the car, and now they do not know what to do about it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Because they've been hyping this up as like, this is going to be like their Super Bowl, their Christmas, however you want to describe it. The release of the Epstein files. And by the way, Donald Trump was in power before. Nothing happened with the files then. Nothing's going to happen with the files now, anything substantial. And they've hyped up that there is this existence of these files.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And in their mind, there exists a list. And the list says something like, pedophiles in Hollywood, and then you read down the list and it's all your favorite Hollywood celebrities, and it's gonna be the big, we got the Democrats, we got Hollywood, they're all on this one list, look at it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
The odd thing about this to me from the very beginning is the obvious thing, which is why would you make this your main cause when the guy you worship was quite literally Jeffrey Epstein's best friend? You don't have to believe me when I say that. Jeffrey Epstein said that Donald Trump viewed him as his best friend. They hung out all the time in Mar-a-Lago.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I know they like to say, they make up this whole story that actually Donald Trump was- Trump banned him when he found out. Actually, Donald Trump just kept him close so that he could report. I meant, give me a fricking break with that bullshit, okay?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
But they've invented this whole story where somehow Donald Trump has cleaned his hands of this, even though there's nobody who was ever closer to Jeffrey Epstein than Donald Trump per all the reporting out there. And it goes beyond just even Donald Trump's name on these various lists and things like that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Like you could go into Ben's deep dives, but all the modeling agencies, all the things that took place at Mar-a-Lago, there's a whole lot of actual evidence to behavior that may be worse than just a name on a list. But the lists that do exist are the lists that have been public for the past few years, if not over the past decade. There's his little black book, the Epstein little black book.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And guess who's on Epstein's little black book? Donald Trump. And like 50 phone numbers. I'm exaggerating there, but it actually is like 11 phone numbers. Do I have the little black book here? I'll find it. Yeah, here it is right here. The little black book. I mean, that's a lot of contact information for one person to have of another human being.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
If you're looking at this, there's a few two-on-two numbers, three Florida numbers, another New York number, like another five New York numbers, another three. There's a lot of numbers on this, is my point. Melania's number, her name spelled wrong, Trump's security. People like who... Emergency. He's got the emergency contact. He's got Trump's emergency contact.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I get a lot of people's phone numbers. I don't have their emergency contact and their security. This is a close relationship. And by the way, I'm going to say right up front, just because a name is on this phone log doesn't mean that any bad behavior was done. For that, we'll go into Ben's deep dives on the Epstein stuff and you'll see the more tangible stuff. But you want a list.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Here is a literal list. It exists right here, right? The other literal list that exists, and this is the one that apparently Pam Bondi is planning on releasing that these MAGA influencers have been holding up in this binder. It was the phone records that I just showed you that Donald Trump's name on. By the way, when we actually see these, let's see if they keep Donald Trump's name on it or not.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
But there's also the flight logs. We need to see the flight logs. We need to see the flight logs. The flight logs were released in 2019. They were released as part of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, the federal trial, signed affidavit. These are the official logs. We have them right here. Donald Trump is listed in these logs by name. He brought his kids on sometimes.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
He was often on it with Epstein himself. You could see the name J.E. on these various logs. But Donald Trump was on the flight logs seven times. Sorry, they were released in 2021 and not 2019. And his name's all over it. But yet you show this to the MAGA people and they're like, what? That doesn't mean anything. What list are you looking for? The list you're looking for doesn't exist.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
These are the lists that actually exist. And then you have these White House influencers now going to the White House. And so you have people and it's disgusting to see some of these people at the White House. Holding up binders, holding up literal binders. Small binders. Small binders like this guy. Who is this? Is this Cernovich? I don't know.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I'm upset that I know any of these people, but they're people like Libs of TikTok and Cernovich and I don't know. DC Drano. DC Drano. Here's the DC Drano photo. And they're holding these things up. There's Libs of TikTok in this photo. And they're smiling and they're celebrating. And these binders say phase one, the Epstein files, the most transparent administration in history.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
It has a fake declassified marking. It's not a real declassified. It says it like they just printed it on the thing. And they gave it to these 15 influencers. Apparently this is phase one of the release, which is all this information that I just showed you. Like it's already, already public apparently. And they're like smiling and celebrating.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And it's just weird because like I said, in the beginning of this, this is disturbing stuff. Like this is evidence of somebody who like raped children. I was trying to see if I could make it a little softer for this episode, but I wanna be clear about what it is and not use a language. And they're smiling with these binders as if, look what I got, look at this great thing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
It's completely bizarre, not to mention the fact that the people who have accused the media of being regime propagandists under Biden, this is literally the definition of regime propagandists. I mean, how do you ever recover from this? You holding your binders to try to cover for Donald Trump and his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, because that's all this is about right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And now you have these rifts forming because you have these MAGA people who are willing to do whatever Donald Trump wants, right? Then you have other MAGA people who view themselves as like pure blood MAGA, you know, like I am the real MAGA and I actually stand for my beliefs. And you know what?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
To their credit, some of these people I actually do think stand by their beliefs as horrific as they are, like a Laura Loomer, for example. Horrible person. She's pretty consistent though in being a horrible person. She wouldn't probably partake in a situation like this. So then you have a Laura Loomer getting angry now at these MAGA influencers, getting angry at the Trump administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
You have Pam Bondi saying that she was going to release all the Epstein files, but the FBI is not going to allow her to release all the Epstein files. You have the FBI going like, what are you talking about? They're all trying to blame each other. And now it's just MAGA is in chaos over this thing because the dog finally caught the car.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And now they don't know what to do because they've hyped this moment up for so long as the moment that was going to take down the deep state and the Democrats and liberal Hollywood. And guess what? The only person's name who keeps coming up on these lists is Donald J. Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
By the way, I totally buy that it was Epstein that cut off the friendship, not the other way around. I completely buy it. Before you go on to Tate, I want to say one more thing also, which is this. I see all these MAGA people online saying, why don't the Democrats, why don't anybody who's not MAGA, why don't people say, release the Epstein list?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
It's because they're scared that they're on it or their friends are on it or their politicians are on it, celebrities. We've been saying it all the freaking time. Release the list. We don't give a shit. Release the list. Release it. Release it. We've seen the list that exists. You're guys on it, and we don't care who is on the list. We'll acknowledge it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I don't know why you can't acknowledge the reality that Donald Trump is the one who constantly shows up and had this very deep, close, and personal relationship with the guy, Benjamin.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
It is incredibly dystopian. Good to be here with you, brothers. Good to be here, everybody watching and listening to the Midas Touch podcast. You know, a few things. First off, Trump looks tired. Like, for those listening, the bags under Donald Trump's eyes are growing. He looks exhausted.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
he looks out of it and frankly like you're right it's like you have two options trumpers in that situation when you hear comments like that like zielinski did i say he was a dictator i don't know it's he's either senile or he's a liar or both so i'll let you guys decide uh how you want your dear leader to be described but he's one of those things elon when i hear elon you know he's just bizarre that he's taking over these cabinet meetings and whatnot
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
who go to work every single day uh live a middle-class lifestyle often are able to do things in the private sector but choose to give service to their country by the way yes they do pay taxes and they do pay taxes back to the government from their salaries and the government is not a business it's not a profit-making function despite what you and the other republicans want it to be things need to run services need to be provided to people and when did it become okay
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
for politicians to speak down to working Americans like that. It is so, I guess with Trump, but it's so incredibly appalling to me. And it really, really disgusts me on a gut level. And this, you're telling me this is the party that is claiming the mantle of populism. This is the party that's claiming the mantle of where for the working people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And you're saying that to people who are hard workers who go in every single day to difficult jobs and you tell them their jobs don't mean crap.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
But there's this guy who went viral this week who's been doing an Elon Musk impression. And I cannot listen to Elon Musk now without thinking of, have you seen this guy on TikTok? It is, it's so, maybe I'll pull up the clip if I can in a second. But yeah, no, it's completely bonkers what we are seeing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
But honestly, when I look at Trump in all these situations, I just see like, I see such weakness, like weakness. I feel like he's tired, like his heart is not in it. And it feels like one of the reasons why he's just kind of delegating everything, letting Elon Musk basically do his job for him. It's just like his heart isn't in this thing. It's just a whole bizarre dynamic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I'm sure Lives of TikTok is all over that one.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And I just want to add as well that it's something I'm going to reiterate on the show quite a bit. That is, you could say all the things in the world, right? You could try to create your own reality, but reality will always catch up. Caught up to Donald Trump in his last administration with COVID when he tried to create his own reality around that. Didn't work.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
We already are seeing that happen to the Trump administration right now across the board. And the economy is no different. Let me break down the economy. But first, you know, I got to do this as part of everybody's favorite segment on the Midas Touch podcast. This is the NetSuite by Oracle. Know your numbers minutes. Welcome to the NetSuite Bioracle Know Your Numbers Minute, people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
But anyway, we've got a lot to discuss. I'll turn it over to Jordy. Jordy, what's new?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Let me break down the latest data that we are receiving today. So we got the new unemployment claims from last week rising much higher than anticipated. I know a lot of you are probably like, I anticipated it to be pretty high because Trump is firing quite literally everybody, but this is higher. They do it based on The Economist's predictions, and this is even higher than that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
So there were an estimated 242,000 claims filed, jobless claims filed last week, which is 22,000 more than the previous week. So we are seeing a pretty steep increase across the weeks right now. And all this unemployment that Trump is causing in DC and Virginia and across the country, That's going to lag a little bit also.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And when this catches up, I think the unemployment numbers are going to start looking really bad once we start seeing these monthly jobs reports in April, May, and things like that. By the way, first off, the expectation was 220,000. We had 242,000 jobless claims. Just want to be clear about that. And you could use NetSuite to stay on top of all the economic indicators.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
NetSuite provides easy access to economic data and trends through their integrated analytics so that you're always up to date. And this news comes as Donald Trump continues to purge these federal employees, implement these tariffs, threaten these major American industries. As you can see, everything is kind of in upheaval now. And there's a whole lot of instability.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And speaking of tariffs, tariffs were back in the news today. Trump announced earlier that those previously postponed tariffs on imports from Mexico and Canada will now take effect on March 4th, 2025. We'll see if those tariffs end up happening again or not. Like the last time, the tariffs are set to be 25% on imports from Canada and Mexico with an additional 10% tariff on China.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I should mention, now that we're talking about international, if you have a business that does work globally globally, NetSuite is tailored to meet your various trade regulations, standards, all that sort of stuff to make sure you're always compliant and on top of everything. And Trump continues to blame the flow of fentanyl for the tariffs, even in places like Canada. It doesn't make any sense.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
I think there's more fentanyl that flows from the US to Canada than from the Canada here. There's virtually no fentanyl that goes from Canada to the US. So just a fake excuse. Like I said, they use these kind of con games constantly. in order to try to push forward these policies. Trump also says these reciprocal tariffs are going to take effect on April 2nd.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
That could affect products from the entire world. And the things that Trump is claiming need reciprocal tariffs are things like value-added taxes, VATs, which are not that at all and don't actually affect... exports to other countries. Once again, like a lot of made up things. As previously mentioned, these tariffs could upend American industries. We just heard this week from the CEO of Alcoa.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
That's the nation's leading US aluminum producer. And he said that Trump's tariffs on aluminum could destroy 100,000 American jobs while not even providing an incentive to change aluminum production in the United States. So you're getting all the bad stuff without any of the good stuff that he's going to say. He even said at his conference, once again, CEO of Alcoa,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
So I'm not saying this is a liberal organization. Alcoa, the leading US aluminum producer, he said, quote, at a recent conference, it's bad for the US. So we're going to stay on top of all the economic updates here at the Midas Touch Network, week by week, month by month, day by day, making sure that you're getting all the data and everything that is going on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
And so I'll be back soon with another segment. We'll stay on top of it. That was the NetSuite Bioracle Know Your Numbers Minute. Do you know your own numbers for your business? Download NetSuite's Ultimate KPI Checklist right now at netsuite.com slash Midas.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Tennessee Brando just hit 600,000 subscribers on YouTube. So congratulations to Tennessee Brando.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
what's going on with the measles and then he's like uh and then rfk jr's like oh well it happened hold on i know yeah you don't have to do the impression no no do the impression all right ben ben for the audience uh everybody is asking in the comments to hear your rfk impression so if you're really not doing the rfk and if you really if you really want to do the impression we'll let you do it right here before ben does the rfk impression maybe gets cancelled or not
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
You can take away my Medicaid. More pee-pee. This episode is starting on a crazy foot. So, Ben, as we await your RFK Jr. impression, can I play this guy's Elon Musk impression?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
After this, we'll go to your... Let me show you this guy and then we'll get into the RFA clip because it's so good. This is not Elon Musk. I think this guy's name is Alex Byron. If I'm saying that right, Alex Byron, he's a comedian. It's a pitch perfect impression of Elon.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/28/25
Just to follow up on that, if British troops are in Ukraine keeping the peace and get attacked by Russia, will you come to their aid?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
The kid gloves they treat these people with, like him and Elon Musk, it's like, what are you doing? They're technically the most powerful people and rich people. They can handle a little bit of pushback. I'll also just say the facts here because all of Donald Trump's numbers were wrong, I will specify, because he said we had a $250 billion deficit with Canada.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
It's $54.999 billion and that's driven only by the fact that we do have to import Canadian oil and gas. if you remove those energy imports, we actually have a trade surplus with Canada if you remove those key imports. But there's a reason that we import oil and gas from Canada. And you see these countries, whether it's Canada, whether it's Mexico, you see them not buckling over.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And he's actually uniting factions in these countries who wouldn't ordinarily come together for a common purpose. That common purpose, striking back at the United States of America.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And this is wholly unprecedented in our history where we have our allies coming together, all their different political factions, to actually try to oppose the United States, to try to inflict pain on the United States as they defend themselves. And it just shows just such utter weakness from the White House that we are now embroiled in all of these kind of foreign countries in this way.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Let me just say, those moments to me are the most revealing moments for Trump and the MAGA movement and the right-wing media because they choose very carefully about what they cover and how they go about it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And when there's a moment like that, a religious figure speaking out, and by the way, not speaking out against Donald Trump, but speaking out about the actual values of the religion, speaking out about mercy, speaking out about kindness, speaking out about treating your neighbor with care and love.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
When that message hits and goes viral in the way it did, that is the biggest threat imaginable to this entire house of cards that Donald Trump, MAGA, Fox News, the whole right-wing propaganda has built. So what do they have to do? They have to attack it like an immune system attacking a virus in your body. And you just see them all at once
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
go into immediate mode okay how do we take this message of love and unity and the teachings of the church and make it so it's repulsive and that our people don't want anything to do with it okay let's call it woke let's call her a woke lib let's call her uh nasty and rude and this and that and you very clearly see the moments that they fear the most And I think that says a whole lot about it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
I know we posted the clip of this bishop on our social media, received something like over, last time I checked, over 150,000 likes, something like over 10 million views.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
and that's just instagram right and then we got hundreds of thousands of likes on the other platforms it's insane um the response that you saw from people online all those like kind of blue check people on twitter and all that were that was satanic satanic There couldn't be anything less satanic than a bishop of a church preaching kindness and loving thy neighbor.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
These people need to pick up a frickin Bible and actually understand what their religion is supposed to be about, because clearly they are not worshiping their God. They are worshiping Donald Trump, and they've gone way astray at some point over the past few years, and they should be ashamed of who they become.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
I know we could say this with just about everything, but imagine if Joe Biden or somebody that close to the Biden administration was asked about inflation and they said, how are we going to deal with this inflation issue? A lot of American consumers are suffering out there. Egg prices are through the roof. People are really, they're taking two jobs, three jobs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
They're really trying their hardest right now to just stay afloat and to live. I tell them to get over it. Get over it. So be it. Get over it. I mean, what a let them eat cake moment right there from Jamie Dimon and from the Trump administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And once again, going back on all of the rhetoric that was stated throughout the entire campaign, I guess it's easy to get over it when you are worth approximately $2.7
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
billion dollars last time I checked, but there are families out there who are struggling, and when egg prices go from being $1.99 for a dozen, $2.99 to 13 bucks, that affects people's ability to do other things, to pay their rent, to pay their mortgage, to send their kids to school, to do even just the very basics, to put shelter for their family, to actually help their families.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
This is serious stuff that people are dealing with. And the broligarcs, the oligarchs, all these people, Donald Trump, all the people around Donald Trump, They just seem so out of touch to me when you're making comments like that and are just so brazen about it while people are in pain.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And while I'm sure a lot of the people who voted for Trump were also hoping that one of his first day actions would be to do something to help prices, not to help drive all the prices up on everything like he actually did. I mean, he's screwing people over. in such a huge way while he lines the pockets of people like Elon Musk and Jamie Dimon and Mark Zuckerberg. It's atrocious.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Like I've said on the show numerous times, it's the most obvious contrast to be made right now that this is really a battle of the working class versus the oligarchs. And the oligarchs think they could openly mock
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Well, I have two feelings on it, Ben. I say, first, this feels like the world's longest week we've ever had. I mean, this week feels like it's been 10 years somehow. But we're getting through it, folks. At the same time, I also share your optimism here. I also think that Donald Trump really does look weaker than ever. Trump
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
you i mean that's what jamie dimon is doing in that clip he's basically spitting in your face like are you gonna really take that because you want a simp for donald trump like seriously guys i just really they're not even sly about it to your point they're so overt with it and like they have no tact
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Here's the one small area where I'm going to differ from you because I'm just not going to pretend like I know what the American people are going to think about policies. They're going to think about things the way they consume information. The problem is Donald Trump is out there doing all these distractions in order to make people look the other way.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
So that's why I think it's our ultimate job, and when I say our, I mean this entire community, is to get out this truth in a world where Donald's distractions rise to the top of the algorithms and are pushed out by the same oligarchs who are taking advantage of the American people so that they don't hear
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
that comment by Jamie Dimon so that they don't see that Donald Trump is raising prices, so that they don't see that their workplace was just raided by ICE. That's up to all of us to be shoving these images in people's faces.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
That's why I think it is important that we occasionally, in these circumstances, show Donald Trump saying this stuff, because people need to be seeing right now what is actually going on. Trump's gonna continue to throw everything out to see what sticks, right? He's gonna see, he's the master of distraction, as Ben says, a weapon of mass distraction. He's gonna use that tool to his advantage.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And I've seen comments by journalists in the media And they freaking love him. They love him. I've seen all their posts. They're giddy. They're giddy that Trump is back. I'm just telling you the truth. I've seen them. I've seen comments that they made to each other. It disgusts me. Why are they giddy? Because, oh, we get to go in the Oval Office and we get to shout things at Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
we get to go in the oval office and you look it's so cool in here because we get to yell questions at him and he gets the spews and back at us and we get to be in here and it's so cool you guys we didn't get to be in here as much under president but i don't care about your access to the oval office i care about are you getting the true uh information there was an article that came out over the past 24 48 hours or so um that said that were these reporters for these corporate media stations
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
We're very happy that Trump is back because during the Biden administration, instead of getting shouted at by President Biden in the Oval Office and in these impromptu press conferences, they were given data from the experts about what is actually going on. And that bored the hell out of them. That was very boring for them to get the actual updates about
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
probably is at his safest when he is campaigning because that's when he could just lie without consequence and he could do his bluster and he could do everything he wants. When he actually has to lead and he actually has to say things that are consequential and affect major issues going on in the world, you realize quite quickly, and I'm not saying I know all of you,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
how policies were impacting people's lives and what the moves are at the administration. But now they get the show. If their reporter gets yelled at, guess what? That's a story. My reporter got yelled at by Donald Trump. I'm going to talk about that. We're going to show that moment. It sickens me that they like this so much for all the wrong reasons.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
It's not because they're going to be able to deliver more accurate information to the American public. It's because simply they are able to kind of be in the fray and be part of the story, which I think is exactly what you do not want to be doing at this stage.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
all know this but you realize quite quickly how completely and utterly incompetent he is how he doesn't understand how anything works how his uh actions are being blocked left and right by the federal judiciary um he's not even able to get around that because his actions are so egregious and you really see uh kind of an emperor has no clothes kind of situation
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
happening right now when Donald Trump's biggest promises that he made, whether it's with Ukraine or anything else, all of a sudden those are all falling to the wayside. I haven't heard Donald Trump say one thing about prices, nothing about egg prices, nothing at all. It's like he's simply trying to distract from all that stuff because he knows right now, oh crap, I actually got to do things?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Well, let me just also hit the people with some facts here about this executive order because it's the ultimate distraction. Fred's coming in with the facts. Let me come in with the facts. Let me come in with the facts haymaker right here, brothers, okay? The executive order, when you actually read it, it just requires the DNI and the AG to offer a plan within 45 days. to release those documents.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
It doesn't actually release the documents. It requires them within 45 days to come up with a plan to release them and has zero actual time. Is that the concept of a release? It's a concept of a release. It's a concept of a release of these files. So there's literally no timeline on the release of any of these files.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
it's like i say on every episode trump is the king of uh of doing the uh you know the squirrel the the you know waving the keys in front of the dog or or saying squirrel to the dog in the movie up um he's able to distract his people as he picks their pockets uh by putting these um you know things that attract their attention like like this and a move like this which really doesn't in its current stage
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
have really any meaning, but also avoids the real fact that he's hiding the Epstein files, which he could release if he wanted to release them, I presume, and doing this to distract his people because they all jump on this stuff right away. It's just such an obvious pattern that we've seen. And I'm all for transparency. I'm all for release. He released everything. Who cares?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
But I think what he's not doing is really the story in all of this. And it's important that people don't take the bait of what he's trying to do. The announcement of Trump is him waving the keys to the dog. Don't get distracted by the jingle jangle. Look at what's actually going on behind his kind of sleight of hand.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Well, I don't know how to do things, so let me distract them and throw a bunch of other stuff out there to try to give the kind of impression that I'm doing a lot while I'm actually doing nothing to help people's lives. In fact, what I'm doing is I'm doing everything I can to enrich the billionaires around me, to extract more money from my followers and give it to the richest people in America.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
That's what we're seeing right now, folks. I mean, that's the one thing that I think he is succeeding at. It's enriching his billionaire buddies, enriching himself through illegal schemes. That's what we see kind of forming at this point, in my opinion.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And we're going to see him completely fail at the actual job of being president because, quite frankly, he doesn't want the job of being president. He didn't run because he wants to help people. He ran because he wanted to stay out of prison. Mission accomplished there. But he didn't run to actually help the people. He ran to stay out of prison.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
He ran to make himself and his billionaire buddies richer. That's what he's actually going to focus on. So we need to focus on Donald Trump's actions and not the distractions. Jordy, great to see you as always. What's new on your end?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
I don't have much else to add. I think you summed it up perfectly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
I think one of the things that we're all going to have to kind of figure out going forward here as a community is we have to understand that every single day, in addition to the real tangible stuff that is going to happen and is going to affect people, Donald Trump and his allies are also going to throw out a bunch of things to distract you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
These might be outlandish statements to get you focused on the shiny object.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
this may be what andy ogles is doing right here with this amendment right oh trump's going to be there for a third term and that's not going to go anywhere i promise you but they're going to throw out all this stuff every single day to try to spark outrage to try to get a news cycle to try to make you kind of lose it feel defeated and all of that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
What it's our job to do here when we report the news and as part of a community that considers itself to be pro-democracy is to figure out how to parse and separate what is real and what is BS. What do we need to be worried about? What is somebody trying to take our eye off the ball? What is actually happening to our country as a result of these actions?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
And what is Donald Trump saying is going to happen to our country with his rhetoric? And that's, you know, I think one of the main goals of this community right now is to figure that out and make sure that we remain focused. And I know that this community is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
is intelligent i know that this community is more geared up for this task than anybody out there and so i'm so grateful uh to have this opportunity even in these dark moments to be in this with you to be fighting with you all and to be able to get out the truth in this way with these sorts of numbers with the strength that we have and i feel the strength in this community right now as we come together i feel you all with this energy
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
right now, coming together in order to protect what we've got of our democracy. It's just such an honor.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
Jordi, to piggyback off that comment, I think one of the interesting kind of dynamic switchups that we are already seeing is that MAGA had presented itself the last few years as the voice of the anti-establishment, right? They position themselves as we are the counterculture. We are the counterculture and we're coming after the establishment.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
There is nothing more establishment than the MAGA movement right now. mean y'all are in power and every branch of government you are literally like the party of the billionaire oligarchs you run social media you run the news media guess what you are the establishment you are the man so all you people are
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
All you right wing propagandists out there trying to still act like you are some anti-establishment type. You are just out there simping for billionaires and for the elite. And I find it so utterly embarrassing when I see you licking those boots every single day. It's embarrassing. You are embarrassing the hell out of yourself. And we all see it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to Trump COLLAPSING TERM
This is more important. My vendetta against Joe Biden and my threats of prosecuting Joe Biden for nothing, because he didn't do anything wrong, is more important to the American people than the economy. That's what Donald Trump is trying to tell people in that clip.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Those are the best jokes. Those are always the best jokes.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
All right, let's talk about aging better. Have you heard about senolytics? It's a class of ingredients discovered less than 10 years ago and scientists are calling it one of the biggest breakthroughs for healthy aging and staying in your prime. I've been using qualia senolytic and I feel the difference. You only take it two days a month and it helps your body eliminate senescent cells.
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Plus, there's a 100-day money-back guarantee, so there is zero risk in trying it. So if you want to resist aging at the cellular level, go to qualialife.com slash Midas for up to 50% off and use code Midas at checkout for an additional 15% off. That's q-u-a-l-i-a-life.com slash Midas, M-E-I-D-A-S, for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode.
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Our standing in the world is as low as it's ever been. It's really horrible. There are reports also that European military powers are currently planning, they're working on a five to 10 year plan to replace the United States in NATO.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
You are seeing also, you know, Charlie's warning about the travel advisory and all these countries are, but a lot of these countries are already actively boycotting the United States as well. So much so that like this is a pretty crazy story that came out yesterday. But a bunch of Canadian airlines right now are actually canceling flights to the United States, canceling flights.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
One airline's canceling their flights to Tennessee. One airline's canceling flights to a bunch of other U.S. destinations. And a lot of something like 85% of travelers in the past month or something have canceled their flights or have said that they would not take any trips to the United States from Canada. And that is going to really affect the United States GDP, our tourism industry.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And the beneficiary is going to be places like the Caribbean and other places where Canadians are going to go. They're going to spend their hard-earned money at places that actually respect them. It's really unfortunate that we're seeing such horrific behavior. I think one of the interesting things, though, that's coming out of all of this is Canada had a party, their Conservative Party.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Pierre Palliev is their Conservative Party leader. And their strategy initially was to embrace Donald Trump. In fact, their strategy was to echo all the words of Donald Trump, was to become mini Donald Trumps. And they thought, oh, that's hot down south over there across the border.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
So if we imitate that here, we should soar to a same victory because as we see across the world, these liberal democracies continue to fall and they're being replaced by these MAGA wannabes. So they implemented that strategy and for a while it was working.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
But I guess it becomes difficult to have your philosophy be sort of Canada first in that perspective when the person who you are supporting wants to destroy the very idea of Canada as a country and destroy your sovereignty.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And all of a sudden, folks like Pierre Polyev and other people in the Conservative Party in Canada found themselves supporting a guy who wanted to destroy them and their country and their people. Now they're trying to actively run away from months and months and months of pretending that they were big Trump sort of guys, big MAGA sort of people in Canada. And meanwhile, their polls are plummeting.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
The Liberal Party has just soared in the polls. There's been just an enormous shift in these elections. So now you have Mark Carney. He is reportedly... going to be calling these snap elections that are going to be held in April, according to the reports. It's a parliamentary system in Canada. He became the prime minister following Justin Trudeau's resignation as party leader.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And it will be Carney, ultimately, you know, it'll be the Liberal Party versus the Conservative Party. And now the Liberals are in the best possible situation to sort of victory after all of this. But you could just go back.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
I think one of the interesting things now is you are sort of seeing this coordination play out between the Conservative Party in Canada and between Donald Trump, because they know that Trump now is a curse, that any sort of support from Trump is actually extremely negative to their chances. So now they're trying to play this ridiculous game.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And it's like, how stupid do you think people are, Pierre Palliot? How dumb do you think people are? Give me a break. So Donald Trump gave an interview the other day, and he was sort of pretending like, oh, yeah, I don't need the conservative party. I may even get along better with the liberal leader. Yeah, okay. And now Pierre Polyev is trying to run with that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
He put out this ridiculous statement that he got ruthlessly mocked for online, where he said, last night, President Donald Trump endorsed Mark Carney. Why? That's just a lie. He didn't endorse Mark Carney. Yeah. Why? Because as Trump said, he's easier to deal with and know that I will be a tough negotiator and always put Canada first. Dude, you were selling out your country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
You were selling out your country's sovereignty to Donald fricking Trump. Don't even give me this. I'm not even going to read the rest, but just lies, lies, lies, lies, lies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
The PP pivot. And so little PP over here, you know, you could go through his history and like he would just mimic anything Donald Trump said. And like we have the receipt. So I'll play you this clip, for example.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
I don't think... All right, we could do some more.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
mean the video speaks for itself so you could try to distance yourself all you want from the guy but frankly it looks embarrassing and it's actually shows how once this house of cards collapses this whole maga sham just how weak and pathetic and embarrassing the whole thing looks like now you're trying to pretend like oh i wasn't actually like trump this whole time and it just shows you know once they're on you know i know things feel like super tough right now right because
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
that you have trump and these maga lunatics here in the u.s and control of all the branches of government but it shows you how once they're sort of out of power and how that shift could happen super quickly like those conservatives they thought they were a shoo-in in canada but once that flip happens look how weak they look they were in a position of strength they thought they were invincible the same way the mega people in the united states feel like they are invisible once that power shift happened once there was that one inciting incident in this case it was trump essentially declaring economic war or worse
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
on canada once that switch flipped look how the dynamic shifted look how the culture shifted look how the people shifted and that same thing could happen here in the united states brett pierre poliev went on the far right wing jordan peterson podcast
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
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I got a badass lemon tree from Fast Growing Trees. You do. And I just get to walk outside, grab a little lemon, squeeze it in the comments.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Yeah. And to listen to all those interviews, by the way, we put all those on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and the Midas Touch Podcast. So be sure to check them out. Like I said earlier, it's a super easy way to just go through and listen to all the various interviews. These guests that we've had lately have been great.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And I think the through line between all of them, and I think the reason that they've been resonating with folks and the feedback has been so good, is because all the folks that we just showed you are fighters. And I think the real division right now in the Democratic Party is Isn't between left or right? Is this person too progressive? Is this person too moderate or centrist?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
I think that's a head fake because that's not how voters think about things. Just not. I think the divide within the Democratic Party right now is, is this person a fighter or is this person a pushover? And what we are seeing is the fighters rising to the top. They are solidifying themselves as the future leaders of the party.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And the folks like the, let's face it, the Chuck Schumers and folks like that who cave are the cavers. And people don't want cavers right now. They want people who actually stand up or at least are able to articulate their positions. And I could go on about Schumer all day. I think he went about that whole process just completely wrong. wrong.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And if he was going to do that position that he did, he should have messaged it in advance and explained it to the people why, and not try to do a humiliation media tour after the fact to try to save his ass. But that's beside the point.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Yeah. But I want to highlight the fighters. And these are the fighters right here. AOC, she's somebody who goes out there unabashedly, stands for her values, speaks to working people from the perspective of somebody from the working class. I think that's powerful. Our interview with Senator Bernie Sanders, same thing, speaking from his heart about the working people and the Republicans.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
They could try to say, oh, they're far left, they're this, they're that. A lot of the American people do not view it that way. And like AOC said in that clip, wanting people to have health care, wanting people to be able to afford living, housing, things like that doesn't make you a communist.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
That makes you actually want to build back to what the best parts of America were throughout our history and make this country actually better for the people. And so, you know, that's what I see. And I think, you know, with Kentucky Governor Beshear,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
powerful powerful powerful words from him especially considering that he's in the state of kentucky which let's face it is a very red state donald trump won by what 30 points in kentucky over 30 points but you know who else won in kentucky andy beshear and you know what he didn't have to do he didn't have to run away from his values he didn't have to throw the lgbt community under the bus he didn't have to pretend like he was something he is not and like i was saying with canada um
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
I think if you run away from your values, if you start backing this MAGA thing, or if your theory is, I need to be more right wing in order to appeal to this group, once the culture shifts, You're done. You're done.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Once the pendulum swings back and people make the case for why inclusion and diversity is important, for why people deserve basic human dignity, why people deserve healthcare, why people deserve affordable housing, once that becomes the conversation and this MAGA stuff becomes a disgrace,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
and the hatred that these maga people and these right-wingers are pushing at the lgbtq community at anyone who's not white as they the stripping away of these various programs the removal until it was restored of jackie robinson's story from the government websites about the Navajo code talkers. They're just removing, trying to remove all history of any non-white people in this country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Once the pendulum swings, you do not want to be on the wrong side of it. So don't sell out. You don't have to sell out in order to win. No one's going to go for you if you're just like, listen, I'm MAGA light, but I'm a Democrat. It's not going to work in my opinion, but that's why I like these folks we've had on the show recently.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
True fighters sticking up for their values, providing a blueprint or at least the beginnings of a blueprint and what it actually means to fight and how to bring the fight in this new Trump era.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
No, just thank you. I had this great show. I packed a lot of information into the show. Man, covered a lot, and I know there's a lot more. But we love doing these longer shows a couple times a week. Thanks to everybody who's listening. Like I said, to listen to all those interviews that Ben did with those great fighters, politicians out there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
They're on the Midas Touch podcast audio and video feed. And we view this project as existential. We really do. In that, we think we are fighting for the existence of this country, for the existence of a better world. And so every single day we want to try, we try to think like, how could we make the world better? And how could we move things forward, even in the face of adversity?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And it's an honor to be able to do that with all of you. So thank you. Jordy, you want to take us away? Shout out to the Midas Mighty!
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
What's going on, Ben? What's going on, Jordy? What's up, everybody listening and watching? It's good to be here with you. A lot of news to cover. A lot is going on. I think it was just, what, like two days ago or something, three days ago, when we played some of these clips from Lutnik, some older clips of him on Fox and whatnot, and And we were comparing him to a sleazy used car salesman.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And just two or three days later, he's literally going on TV to sell a car salesman's stock. I think it's a little on brand for this guy and just completely unethical. It's got to be illegal.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
like just this whole entire administration is just for the oligarchs by the oligarchs and it's all about trying to protect themselves and make themselves richer it's so obvious what is going on as they extract the wealth from the people from the working people try to make people's lives that much more difficult while they give money to their billionaire buddies it's happening every single day and we're seeing it and also of course the cruelty is the point ben
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
seeing the stuff about the immigration, the deportations. But honestly, deportation isn't even a good enough word for what we are seeing. Maybe kidnappings, abductions. What we are seeing right now is Donald Trump's Gestapo going out there in the form of ICE, going out there and whisking people off the streets, sending them to El Salvadorian prison camps without any due process whatsoever.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And I said it last week. I said it in the last show. I said, they want to trap you. They want to trap you in this argument, this false choice between you could either support what he's doing or you support the criminals. That is a false choice. That is bullshit. What is actually happening here is they want to violate the law, carte blanche, and they want to make up excuses to do it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
So they make the excuse and they say, well, these are violent gang members. The violent gang members, we're getting them out of the country. Everybody should like that. And you go, okay, but how do you know that?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
trust me just trust me i said they're a gang member so you got to trust what i am saying well you don't really have a history of being honest donald trump or tom homan or stephen miller so we're going to need some more proof on that that's what due process is that's why we have a united states constitution and it seems like every day now
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
We are learning more and more things, more and more horror stories from lawyers of people who were sent over there who have zero gang affiliation whatsoever, Ben, like the soccer player who you mentioned. This story is horrific.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
A Venezuelan professional soccer player who was tortured by the Maduro regime came to the United States seeking asylum, did everything the right way, was here in this country legally I want to make that clear. Was here doing things the right way? But what this administration decided they would do is they said, okay, here's how we're going to deport people. Here's how we're going to abduct people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
I should say what it actually is. We are going to come up with gang identification criteria. And we're going to say, if you meet two gang identification criteria, then you get abducted and thrown to an El Salvadorian concentration camp. If you meet one, then you are a gang affiliated. You are gang associated. What are the criteria?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Well, in this case, it was the fact that the guy just had a tattoo. It was a Real Madrid soccer tattoo. But they said, you have a tattoo that's probably like a gang tattoo. You're a gangster. So that's what they said, number one. Number two was him throwing up the like rock and roll sign with his hands. It's also the sign language for I love you. A very common pose. I'm doing it right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Arrest me. I could say I'm part of a gang. But he had a picture like this up on his social media. And they said, well, that's two for two. Two gang criteria identified. we're taking you, we're sending you to El Salvador, to these prison camps to be ruthlessly manhandled by this prison, which treats people horrifically, despite the fact that you didn't do anything wrong.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And don't even question us on this. And this is in the courts right now. And the judge is demanding action. It looks like They are heading for a contempt ruling in court because they're refusing to actually say any information to the judge, Judge Boasberg, about these deportations because they know anytime they give more information, they are revealing that the entire thing is a scam.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And that's all MAGA is, guys. MAGA, the entire thing, is built on a house of cards of lies. It's all a lie, it's all a scam, it's all propaganda, and it's all made possible in a lot of ways thanks to a complicit media and thanks to a complicit social media with algorithms that push all this disinformation and lies at people all day. in order to disinform the public. That's what we are seeing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And that's the only way this House of Cards exists. We'll talk about Canada soon, but you see what happens when the House of Cards collapses, like with the Conservative Party in Canada and little PP over there, Pierre Palliev. And we will talk about little PP and what's going on over there. You like that nickname, Jordy?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Yeah, yeah. And what's going on over there as they tried to go full MAGA, and now it is backfiring on them. We'll get into all that. I don't want to take up too much time because we haven't said hello to Jordy yet. Jordy, what's happening?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
That's why it's also a pathetic journey, right? Because they try to sick the DOJ, Pam Bondi, and they go, oh, anyone who protests in front of Tesla now are domestic terrorists. I saw there was a group that was organizing yesterday that is planning these various protests at Tesla dealerships across the country. And I saw all of these MAGA influencers online posting it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And it clearly said in what they were doing was we want to do peaceful protests. We want to boycott Tesla products. We want to show up at these dealerships peacefully. And they said, arrest these people. Arrest these people. This is terrorism. And that's what they want, right? They want to crush dissent. They want to silence dissent.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And while they are laying off all of these people, they then try to make the argument about Tesla. Oh, so you hate American companies? Oh, so you hate electric cars now? No, I don't hate electric cars. What are you talking about? Nobody hates electric cars.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
When you protested Bud Light and took an AK-47 or whatever you were doing and you were shooting beer cans, was it because of your hatred of beer? Because it's the same kind of concept here. But it's just all built on lies. I saw them going after Tim Walz because Tim Walz was mocking the Tesla stock for collapsing. And they're like, oh, he's celebrating an American industry now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
The House Judiciary Committee. had the nerve to write that oh so now we're celebrating the uh you know the an american an american company uh failing and meanwhile they're the ones who every single day would go go woke go broke bud light disney target you name it and it's just the hypocrisy is just endless with these folks and the more they go into their little
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
And I want to be clear, we all want efficient government. We all want government that works smartly and efficiently. And this is one of those other traps they set, the same way they set the traps with, oh, you support gangs, oh, you don't support efficiency. Of course you support efficient government. We all want it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
But that doesn't mean taking a sledgehammer to every agency and making it so that elderly folks can't call the Social Security office to get help with their Social Security. That doesn't mean just firing hundreds of thousands of federal employees and then being like, oh shit, we just fired the nuclear team. Oh, that's a bad idea.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/21/25
Like when presidents have historically actually focused on efficiency, like a Bill Clinton, for example, they did it methodically. They did it over many months. They did it in an organized fashion, in a targeted fashion. What we are seeing right now is just a complete obliteration of the United States government and the American people are suffering because of it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Yeah, and you know what? I think Zelensky's, Eden, as you know what, as well right now. I think he's, you know, kind of getting it from both sides. I think Donald Trump is really working from a place of extreme weakness right now. I think he's incredibly cowardly. You know, there was a meeting that was scheduled this morning between Kellogg, our U.S. envoy to Ukraine, and President Zelensky.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And so that happened without a hitch. We've seen clips of them meeting each other, look friendly. And by the way, Kellogg is like probably the most pro-Ukraine guy in this entire Trump administration. Like he's actually a good person for that job. But because he is actually a good person for that job, Donald Trump despises him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And we've been speaking about this for weeks now, before Donald Trump was even like – after he was elected, but before he even was inaugurated, we were speaking about Kellogg and we were saying, he's gonna be the first to go. Like this guy is gonna be early out because this is not gonna work with Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And we're already seeing tension right now because as Donald Trump sends his people to Saudi Arabia to suck up to Vladimir Putin, he basically sidelined Kellogg and Zelensky this morning. After their meeting, he actually canceled the planned joint press conference because he did not want them to speak to the press about what they were talking about. Why?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Well, I think first off, he's a little nervous about what Kellogg is going to say. Probably good things about Zelensky. The press would definitely ask him if he agrees with Donald Trump's comments about if Zelensky is a dictator. And he would certainly say no would be what I would think or make clear that he does not believe that. And I'm sure he's also afraid of what Zelensky is going to say.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Mornings are non-negotiable for me when it comes to coffee. Listen, you know I'm the resident coffee geek here at Midas, and I take my coffee very seriously. It's the first thing I reach for, and let's be honest, if the coffee isn't great, my whole day feels off. That's why I leveled up my coffee game with Trade. They are the number one specialty coffee marketplace in the United States.
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
It had notes of walnut and lemon citrus, and it was amazing. next level. And I never have to worry about running out because it gets delivered straight to my door. I could honestly say that Trade Coffee has changed my life for the better. Not sure what to try? Well, Trade's Coffee Quiz matches you with your perfect roast in under a minute.
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And if your first bag isn't quite right, they'll replace it for free until they nail it. Right now, Trade is exclusively offering our listeners 40% off your first order at drinktrade.com slash Midas. That's drinktrade, T-R-A-D-E dot com slash Midas, M-E-I-D-A-S for 40% off your first order. drinktrade.com slash Midas because life is too short for bad coffee.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
I just don't want to bore you. There's a concept that's frequently talked about on the right that comes from gaming culture. And you see a lot of MAGA people speaking about NPCs, right? Non-player characters is what that stands for. An NPC is basically, you know, like you're not the main character, right? You're just like a sheep, ultimately.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
They try to use that to describe anybody who doesn't like Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
when they themselves are the npcs like they are the ultimate sheep they are the ultimate npcs and i'm not going to sugarcoat it but every time that donald trump speaks and shovels this they open their mouth and they eat it all the time and regurgitate it and it's frankly embarrassing it's horrible for the country but you see trump could say anything 50 million condoms whatever and they will repeat in unison
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
50 million condoms in Gaza. And this is about everything. It's the same thing with everything. One of the things that I've noticed that people will often say, because we've been putting out a lot of content all over the place. Shout out to everyone who's following us on Instagram and TikTok and all the other places as well.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
But I notice whenever I do stories there about Doge, people are like, oh, another person who doesn't want the government to find waste, fraud, and abuse. What are you afraid of? You're upset that they're finding all this fraud and abuse? Give me one example. Give me one example of fraud.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And not things that you don't like that the government spends money on, but give me one example of actual fraud. Because so far, literally every single thing that Elon Musk has spread on his propaganda platform has been fake, has been 100% fake. But the NPCs in MAGA just repeated ad nauseum every single time. and they say the same lines to me.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
It's like they're reading from a script and maybe a lot of them are Russian bots, I don't know. But I think a lot of them are just sheep. I think a lot of them are just MAGA NPCs who just regurgitate whatever Elon Musk and Donald Trump say, and they just spout it back to you. And it's frankly embarrassing. We see this now across every lever of government.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And there are issues, there are literally agencies in the government that are designed to identify waste, fraud, and abuse. inspectors general are also there to identify waste, fraud, and abuse. Guess what Doge's first move was? To try to get rid of them or to get rid of them. That's not what you do if you're actually targeting waste, fraud, and abuse. The entire thing is a scam.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
The people are getting scammed on this. And people need to really wake up and stop buying the bullshit that billionaires are shoveling their way. By the way, you think you're going to see any of that money? I'm telling you, you're not. You know what you're gonna see?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
You're gonna see they right now are trying to, this whole Doge concept right now is just so they could try to justify when they give their four and a half trillion dollars in tax cuts to billionaires. They're gonna say, but look, we saved all this money. So now we're giving these big tax cuts when the numbers that they're saying they saved are fake.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And the actual addition to the deficit to the national debt is going to be astronomical. They say they care about the national debt, the economy, inflation. They're making it all worse. And we are right now on a very terrifying trajectory for our economy and for the country as a whole with these people in charge.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
They're losers. Let me just say – sorry, you go, Ben.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
It's a entire movement. And I'm speaking even beyond MAGA. I'm speaking there's an entire international movement of grifters and con artists who are taking over these countries. Malay is just another example of that with his coin, which was a total rug pool. And now he may actually be charged over it. And you see what they do is they take advantage of the most needy people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
They take advantage of the most desperate people. who ironically are often their followers. And so we see that play out in all of these areas that they promised these desperate people these things, these people just taking the information and they regurgitated as we've been saying through these episodes. And we just have to understand the war is far greater than even politics, it crosses borders.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And what we're facing right now is truly an information war right now what we are facing. And we are up against a ton of money. We're up against a ton of garbage, billionaires who control algorithms on various social media apps, basically state run TV in many respects. And so that's why it's really genuinely more important than ever.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
that we continue to band together, push back with the truth, push back with pro-democracy media, and call out the BS every step of the way.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Because what they've learned, and this is why they say the condom thing and why the numbers change and always go up, is not only is lying an effective strategy for them, but the bigger and the crazier and the more absurd the lie, the more likely their NPC people are going to repeat that lie. They've learned that it's a loyalty test and the people are happy to do their bidding.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And so what do we got to do? Well, we got to counter it. We need to call it out and we need a full on opposition every single day to inform the American people. And I want to let you know also, because I'm sure a lot of you folks spend a lot of time on social media and I'm sure plenty of you spend time on Twitter. I know a lot of you don't know a lot of you quit.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
But to the people that do, you get a very skewed sense of the world on those apps because the algorithms are controlled by people who want to feed you a certain message. That's not necessarily the message of the public, which is why I actually like seeing what these polls say about what people are feeling, because it reveals a simple fact that there is far more of us than there are of them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
That was true before the election. It is true now. They are trying to pretend like they have this mandate, this massive majority. BS, it is garbage. We have the energy. We have the momentum. We need to be hammering these messages home every single minute, every single hour, every single day.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Those are these zombie cells that build up as we age and contribute to things like aches, slow recovery, and that sluggish middle-age feeling. I feel more energized, my workouts have improved, and I just move better. The benefits have just been absolutely incredible in my daily life. Take a look at Qualia's truly inspired health formulas.
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
But then I found Manicora, and let me tell you, it puts all other honey to shame. Manicora honey is rich, creamy, and the most delicious honey I've ever had. The best part? It's ethically produced by master beekeepers in the remote forests of New Zealand. These bees collect nectar from the Manuka tea tree, which is packed with bioactives, giving Manicora a
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
three times more antioxidants and prebiotics than your average honey. Each morning, I start my day with a heaped teaspoon of Manicora, letting the creamy texture melt in my mouth and coat my throat. And it's not just a treat, it's packed with powerful nutrients to support my immunity and gut health. And here's something that sets Manokora apart.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
It contains a special antibacterial compound called MGO, which comes from the Manuka tea tree. Manokora tests every harvest for MGO, and you can see the results yourself through their QR system. It's a honey with superpowers. Whether you're adding it to your food or enjoying it straight off the spoon, it's a game changer. Now, it's easier than ever to try Manicora Honey.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
I should say also, if people want to get really into the weeds on The Legal, we got a great legal show where Ben likes to nerd out on The Legal with our incredible legal experts like Karen and Michael Popock and Dina Dahl. You can check out The Legal AF podcast as well on Apple and Spotify and goes live on YouTube. Check it out. I'm sure you guys will really love that show as well.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
No, the answer is no. It's great to be here with you guys, first of all. What's going on, brothers? What's going on, everybody watching, listening? No, I mean, it's a complete betrayal of American values and everything that we have ever stood for. I want to be clear, and I'm not going to sugarcoat it to folks out there right now. America is no longer the good guy, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
yeah and i got to admit you know my own faults here because for a while i was told that she was like the pro-labor one and i was like oh well at least trump put somebody pro-labor you know for this position it turns out she's reversed everything that she ever said she believed in for donald trump and the and the head of the teamsters apparently loves her for and shame on that guy right sean o'brien honestly what a traitor to his to his union uh to back these people who are destroying
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
unions, who are destroying workers, who are going to lead these people to slaughter. It's quite frankly disgusting.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
But when I watch all of this, when I see people like Bernie Sanders out there bringing the heat during those hearings, when I see people like, I'm not sure if you saw JB Pritzker's speech yesterday in Illinois, phenomenal, fantastic, exactly the kind of fighter that we need right now. And when you see these voices out there, whether it's, you know,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Jasmine Crockett, an AOC, an Auchincloss, you know, whoever it may be, the people who are out there who are throwing punches and are doing a good job. I think that's great. And I think we need to continue to push members of Congress to do as much as possible every single day. I think there are some people doing a fantastic job. A lot of them are not meeting the moment.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
I'll say that happily, not happily. I'll say that honestly, definitely not. But some of them really are doing a great job. But at the end of the day, I've been thinking about the famous words of JFK a lot in the past few days. The most famous thing he's ever said probably. Ask not what your country could do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And I think right now those words are resonating with me more than ever because we could look to all these institutions, right? You could look to the courts. You could look to politicians. You could look to whoever. But I don't think that's where we need to be looking right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
I think we need to be looking at ourselves and what we could all be doing, the ways we could be organizing, protesting, speaking out, demanding that members of Congress do what they promise they do, that they actually put up a fight.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And I think if we're able to coalesce and build this coalition and continue to knock down Donald Trump's approval ratings by exposing him the way we are, I think the power that we are going to see of the people is going to be the thing that saves this country ultimately. And that's why I love when I look out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
not on the news, but when I see on social media and on the Midas Touch Network, when I see these protests forming, when I see the people speaking up, speaking loudly, loudly, and demanding action. And I want to see more of that. And we all need to be thinking every single day, what could we be doing? Do we have a skill? Maybe you're an artist. Maybe you write songs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Maybe you want to make phone calls. I don't care what it is, but every day we should be thinking, is there something I could do today to try to save my country? responsibility and ownership of this as much as it sucks, as much as none of us asked for this. But I don't even think this is not a partisan thing at all. This is about democracy. This is about our country. This is about normalcy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And I'm not saying America was always the good guy at every point in history, but I'm saying right now that the United States— can no longer be viewed in the world as a good guy. Our guiding star right now is no longer towards the good of the free world. We are now allied, and this is horrifying, but we are now allied with autocracies. We are now allied with dictatorships.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And what we're seeing right now with Trump and Doge, this operation, which I think is a a whole kind of foreign influence operation, kind of both from within and from overseas. It's horrifying. And we should all be united in pushing back against that, regardless of whether you consider yourself the leftiest of lefties, the most conservative person on the planet, moderate.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
I don't care where you are, right? This is an existential crisis that we're all facing. So it's time to come together.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
We are now allied with Russia and our own government right now, including the way they are treating the press, including the various policies, if you want to call them that, that they are implementing. are all straight out of Russia or even Nazi Germany. I always wondered growing up, how could somebody like a Hitler come to power in a democratic country?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
I always wondered, how the hell is that possible? How could the people alongside him let that happen? And then you see videos like that of Marco Rubio and you see all these cowards who are subservient to Donald Trump and do everything that he asks and treat this like it is a game when there are people's lives on the line.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
when there are people's livelihoods on the line, people's health on the line, all the above. It is an absolute disgrace and an utter betrayal. And that's before we even get to Doge, which I got to say is probably the biggest scam in United States history right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
what they are doing and we're going to get into all the details but it is all smoke and mirrors under the guise of cutting waste fraud and abuse and it is just fake like the whole thing is fake it's all bs that's wrapped in these russian talking points to act like look we're making things more efficient as they ruin people's lives as they don't even cut a lot of money you know doge's website get this
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
Doge has this new website up, right? It says that they've cut over, I think, $50 billion or something. NPR looked into it. They've actually cut under $2 billion total. They just make up the numbers and they inflate the numbers. That's 0.003%.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
of the federal budget last year that they've actually cut and that's not even getting into what is doge actually costing what's the cost benefit analysis how much do lawsuits that go against what doge is doing cost the united states and things like that i'm willing to bet that doge is costing the united states far more money than it's actually saving because it's not really saving money
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And what it's going to do is it's going to cause devastation in this country. We're already seeing shaky markets, instability in the markets every single day. Dow's up, Dow's down 600, Dow's up a little, Dow's down. We're seeing our allies freak out over these endless tariff wars that just make zero sense. And then we see Doge mass firing federal workers, people who have worked –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
In some cases, their whole lives in the federal government acting as civil servants is treating them like they're trash, treating them like they're garbage. I'm talking veterans. I'm talking longtime civil servants.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
And what we're going to see in these economic reports as we these next few months develop is a mass loss of jobs, possibly a massive recession, if not a depression as the result of what they are doing. To put it simply, we're going to see exactly what Elon Musk promised we would be seeing right before the election when he said that we would be experiencing pain.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
We're going to break it all down in much more detail. First, I got to check in with Jordy. Jordy, what's up, man? How you doing?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
By the way, before Ben comes in, can I just say, do you remember the shit that MAGA, Trump, all these people gave to Tim Walz and Kamala Harris when they did their first joint interview together after they selected? And by the way, Trump had done one with J.D. Vance. Where the hell is J.D. Vance, by the way? He just tweets and goes to CPAC and stuff. What was that guy doing?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
But anyway, they gave them so much crap for doing that one sit down interview, which is a tradition that all presidents have done in like modern history on TV. Meanwhile, Donald Trump as president is showing up on TV with Elon Musk. And when you watch these interviews, you're right, Jordy, Elon's the one who's in control. And Hannity almost doesn't even take Trump seriously.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
He kind of shoo-shoos Trump while he's trying to speak, lets Elon ramble right over him. At the end of the day, I think their hubris will be their downfall. And I think we're starting to see that actually very quickly when you look at the polling, when you look at people taking to the streets, that they are viewing that they have this mandate and no such mandate actually exists.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/20/25
It's like Nicolas Cage in National Treasure. It's happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
i just love this idea that they're cutting waste and then the things that they end up they actually end up just adding more uh debt in the new bills that they keep creating and they just remove things that the oligarchs don't like this is the biggest scam that we are seeing and it's just happening right in front of everybody's face
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And then you have all of these internet people, all of these people who are in Elon Musk's replies, people like MAGA influencer Cat Turd. Yes, that is the real name of a MAGA influencer chiming in on these bills, fighting for Elon Musk, fighting for the billionaire. And it's just such a sad indictment on our current politics.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
But specifically on the Republican Party under this Trump and Musk sort of framing, where The government is really right now – these Republicans are petrified of random right-wing MAGA influencers on Twitter. Like that's who they are taking their orders from. That's who they're afraid of getting – they're afraid of mean tweets.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
They're afraid of mean tweets from random people like people named capitalists. turd on Twitter. That just shows you how far this party has fallen and how unserious it is. And then you have a cat turd. You have these people literally fighting in the benefit of billionaires over the benefits of actual people under this complete scam of cutting government spending, which is not what's happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
The holidays are all about surprises, right? Well, today's sponsor, OneSkin, is really taking that to heart. As the first company to target skin aging at the cellular level, OneSkin wants to give you the perfect gift of healthy aging, free. Throughout the month of December, you'll get a free travel-size product valued at up to $42 with every purchase. The best part?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And it's scientifically proven to switch off the aging, dysfunctional cells that cause lines, wrinkles, and thinning skin. So whether you're on the hunt for the perfect gift or treating yourself, now is the perfect time to try OneSkin.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Because as a reminder, with every new purchase this month, you'll receive a free travel-size product and it changes each week, so there's always a surprise gift waiting for you. For a limited time, save 15% with our code MIDAS, M-E-I-D-A-S, when you check out at oneskin.co. This holiday season, invest in your skin's long-term health because healthy aging is a gift.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Yeah, and I think he did a great job. I think we got to hear President Biden like we never heard President Biden before. And let's face it, he's not the kind of guy who's loud and boisterous like a Trump who's out there on TV every day posting all cap tweets and videos and all of that. So if I have one regret, it's just that President Biden wasn't doing anything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
these like weekly um over the past few years because i think it's great when the american people can hear from him directly ben i think you did a fantastic job i think you asked the right questions i think you uh asked tough questions but did it in a very respectful way where it felt like a conversation between two people about the state of the country about his presidency about his legacy about his accomplishments about the future felt a lot more conversational
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
than most interviews. And quite frankly, when I was watching it, it was like a palate cleanser in a way for me, because so many of the interviews that we have seen in these past few years have been so combative. And I think a lot of these people think they're going to get more information out of people by being like that, by being so cutthroat with everything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And then what you end up doing is you actually don't let the individual speak. But there are ways of pushing back. There are ways of asking the right questions where you get the answers. And we were able, you were able, Ben, to get President Biden on the record, really reflecting on his presidency in a way that I have not seen anywhere else.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And I really haven't seen the president speak like this anywhere. I also, you know, I got to give a huge shout out also to this White House for understanding the value and the importance of independent media like no other White House has in history. The fact that they worked with us to do this interview in the first place, coming to the Midas Touch Network over one of the corporate networks.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I think that says a whole lot. Their engagement with creators, their engagement with independent media, no other White House in history has done that, especially at the scale that they have done that in this administration. So I have to give them credit as well for being very forward thinking.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And this is something that the president expressed to us both on camera and off camera, that he has a real belief in independent media being the kind of vanguard of truth going forward and playing an important role in our society when we see these news networks so fragmented, when we see these news networks really shift away.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
from the old days, from what their mission used to be at uncovering the truth and instead at chasing the ratings, chasing the drama, chasing the palace intrigue. And so I think it's very cool that somebody, President Biden, especially at his age, can see the value of digital and see the value of what we're all doing here and what all the other creators are doing. in the space.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I got to give a shout out also to all the other creators who sent in their kind words about this interview and helped promote the interview and told their followers to watch from people like David Pakman and Adam Mockler and just all these incredible pro-democracy voices. I think it's important in these moments that we're just building up independent media,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
as a whole, because we certainly do not have the resources, the money that these corporate networks have. But we have something that is far more powerful than that. We have a community. And if we band together these communities and grow all together, I think that is a powerful thing that cannot be ignored.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. Hey, I gotta be honest with myself, right? It feels like I have to choose between having a great night or a great next day. That is until I found pre-alcohol. ZBiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's the blame for your rough next day. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Just remember to make Z Biotics your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre-alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. For example, after a fun night out with friends at like a local bar or wherever we go, I could still get up the next morning and hit the gym.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And I'll admit, I was skeptical at first, but I tried it at a dinner party with some friends. The next morning, I felt great, ready to tackle the day, ready to do more videos here at the Midas Touch Network. I kept hearing about pre-alcohol and wondered what it was actually like. Now that I've tried it, I get the hype.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Plus with their GMO technology, Zbiotics is continuing to create probiotics that tackle the challenges of modern living. Go to zbiotics.com slash Midas to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use code Midas at checkout. Zbiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee. So if you are unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money. No questions asked.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash Midas and use that code Midas. It's M-E-I-D-A-S at checkout for 15% off. Are you looking for something simple and delicious to add to your wellness routine? Here's the thing. I used to put regular honey into a lot of my foods, breakfast, tea, protein, but then I was introduced to Manicora. And Manicora puts that regular honey to shame.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I love the flavor, richness, creaminess, and all the health benefits Manicora honey brings to the table. The best way to use Manicora is straight from the spoon first thing in the morning, letting the creamy texture melt in your mouth and coat your throat. Manicora honey is rich, creamy, and the most delicious honey you've ever had.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
It's ethically produced by Manicora's master beekeepers in the remote forests of New Zealand. Manicora honey contains powerful nutrients to support immunity and gut health. The bees collect the nectar from the Manuka tea tree in New Zealand. The nectar is packed with bioactives, and the honey that is produced has three times more antioxidants and prebiotics than your average honey.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
A special bacterial compound called MGO also comes from the nectar of the tea tree. Manicora third party tests every single harvest for MGO and makes these results available through their QR system. It's a game changer and all you need is one heaped teaspoon each morning to get the most out of the amazing bioactives in Manuka.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Additional usage throughout the day is completely fine, especially helping to cut out other sweeteners. It's a honey with superpowers. Now it's easier than ever to try Manicora honey. Head to Manicora.com slash Midas to get $25 off the starter kit, which comes with an MGO 850 plus Manuka honey jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook. That's Manicora.com slash M-E-I-D-A-S.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I'm happy to share this too. After the cameras were off, that was actually a subject that President Biden continued to speak to you about when we were there in the room. And we were in the historic Roosevelt Room, which is right across from the Oval Office in the West Wing of the White House, which is just incredible.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
President Biden emphasized after the interview also, I remember him saying to you something along the lines of, I just want the people to get these programs. I just want the people to be able to succeed. I want them to feel the positive effects of these things. And at the end of the day, I don't care who is getting the credit as long as the people are being taken care of.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I thought that really shows the difference in styles between somebody like a President Biden and a Trump who is all about me, me, me. He was very much more focused on how are these policies going to impact people's lives and ensuring that they do in fact positively impact people's lives.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Doing great. Good to be here with you guys. Good to be here with all the listeners, all the viewers. Thank you so much. Thank you for all the incredible feedback on that interview with President Biden. Ben, incredible job. What a historic moment, and not just for us here at Midas Touch, but I think it's a historic moment for independent media in general.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Well, let's talk about the economy in what I know is everybody's favorite segment here on the Midas Touch podcast. This is the NetSuite by Oracle Know Your Numbers Minute. That's right, folks. It's time for another NetSuite by Oracle Know Your Numbers Minute. And Ben, let's talk the economy, shall we? So the Federal Reserve on one day did make some cuts to its overnight borrowing rate.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
to a target range now of 4.25% to 4.5% for context. That is back to the level that it was around December 2022. It's a cut of 25 basis points. And while on the surface, that should be good news for borrowers, right? The interest rates are coming down. This is something that everybody was hoping for.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
The comments that the Fed made about the future, I think, are far more important, and the markets thought they were far more important, too, because the Fed said that they would probably only lower rates twice more in 2025, which is far less than they were originally planning for. Why? Over fears of inflations due to potential tariffs and trade wars that could be coming in the coming year.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
So we're already seeing the impact of these future government policies under the future administration having an impact on the way the Fed is setting rates, on the way that economists are perceiving economic growth in the country for the year ahead, and how it is already beginning to impact the markets.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
NetSuite helps you stay on top of all of the government economic policies in a very convenient way. And you could always be assured you'll have a quick adaptation to any new policies through their agile system updates. And so, as I was saying, after the Fed made that announcement, the major stock market indexes all dropped like crazy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
If you were watching the tickers as it happened, all of a sudden they just went way down just went down and so people who saw the initial headline that the fed lowered rates were like why why why would the why would the stock market come down shouldn't it be spiking up no because of those forward-looking indicators um where you have economists in the fed worried about
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
inflationary policies hurting Americans in the future. And so the Dow tumbled more than 260 points yesterday. The markets may have covered a little bit today, but it's been a pretty large losing streak over the past couple of weeks in the stock market since these policies have begun to kind of take hold in the markets as people start to think about what the future is. is going to look like.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And NetSuite also, they provide customization, which gives you customizable dashboards so that you can monitor specific economic indicators that impact your businesses. So that's the latest. That's what I got for you here on.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
The fact that such a major interview was landed not by the corporate media, but by the independent media, not a billionaire funded network, but by people who are pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, supported by the emojis in your chats, your Patreon, your sub stack, all that stuff. Thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts. I'm excited to talk about that experience as well.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And Ben, as I reflect on that information, I think back to what you said earlier in this episode where we were speaking about how not only is President Biden providing for a smooth transition here, but Trump is once again kind of interfering and destroying the transition process. And we are seeing the effects of Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
even before he takes office, the effects that his statements, his threats, his posts, his economic plans are having on markets, are having on people's 401ks, are having on people's cancer funding in the case of this bill, this continuing resolution. And so that's kind of a rare thing for a president to kind of throw away all of his political capital that he has before he even steps into office.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And that's what we're all witnessing. And it's going to get worse. You know, the important thing is that the American people understand where this pain is coming from. And that, I think, is the job of independent media and all of you out there to explain how Elon Musk and his billionaire buddies and Donald Trump are inflicting this suffering, which they said would happen on the American people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And we need to truly, you know, understand kind of what's important out there in our politics and and not chase these shiny objects like the media wants to chase a far too often because there is information that needs to get to the American people. And they may think that that's all that tension, all that yelling and putting people in a room and having them scream at each other and all that crap.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
They may think that that is good for ratings and for clips online, but it doesn't inform the American people at the end of the day. And I think you want to walk away having learned something. You want to walk away getting a sense of who an individual is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
But man, it was quite the experience being out there in D.C., quite the experience being there in the White House face to face with President Biden. And if you haven't seen the interview yet, make sure you go and watch it now. Go, go. It's on our YouTube channel. It's the main video. Go watch it. Share it with a friend.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And Ben, especially in an interview like that, which is really an interview about legacy, really a reflection on the presidency, on President Biden as a person.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
you know because you could have asked about the spending bill you could you know there's a million other directions but this is something that is going to stand the test of time um you know because it's not it's not linked to this specific uh week or few days in time that are going to be gone um you know in a couple days and never remember it again this is going to be there for the record for history as who president biden is was what he is all about what was on his mind
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
in the final days of his presidency. And that's why I think that's such an honor and so cool.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
When you compare the calm, cool, collected President Joe Biden to the chaos of this Republican Party torpedoing their own bill today and – Just having an utter embarrassment. I mean, it shows you the difference between what an actual statesman looks like and what just a chaotic mess looks like. And President Biden is truly one of the last of his kind, in my opinion.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Ben, I just want to ask you while while while we got you here, just a personal question about the interview. Right. You were face to face. with President Biden? What was that experience like, even conducting an interview like this, sitting in that historic room, sitting in the Roosevelt Room, just feet away from the President of the United States?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Just give some insight to our audience on what that experience was like, because I think so few people in history have had that opportunity, and even fewer, obviously, with President Biden.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Let's make sure that as many people as possible see President Biden unfiltered, reflecting on his legacy, his regrets, his accomplishments, what he's going to do in the future and more. Check it out. Pass it around. It's also, of course, on the Midas Touch audio podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify. Check it all out. Jordy, how you doing?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I'm happy for them to expose it as all BS because the debt ceiling is the most annoying thing ever. I'm happy they finally realized that came around to what a lot of Democrats have been saying for a long time, that the debt ceiling has been used to hold these things hostage. So that Republicans can come in and then try to demand these cuts.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Remember, the debt ceiling is the things that have already, spending that has already been approved. This has been spending that has already been approved in legislation. So the debt ceiling really has just been a block. quite frankly, to actually being able to get our bills paid at the end of the day. It's been used as a cudgel by the Republicans.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
I think it's awfully convenient that now that Donald Trump is going to take office, that he is now pushing for the elimination of that debt ceiling, which was raised, by the way, I believe at least three times under Donald Trump, and we remember how the Republicans have weaponized this debt ceiling over the past few years under President Joe Biden.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
But it just goes to show you that their interests, their beliefs are very malleable, and there's no such thing as them being consistent at all with any of these things. It's all, how is it going to benefit me right now? And right now, Donald Trump sees it in his benefit to remove this thing that, quite frankly, a lot of Democrats have been calling for for a very long time.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Meanwhile, they're pushing through all these really unpopular, putting all these things in this spending bill that are just wildly unpopular or rather removing things that are going to be very unpopular with the American people. We'll get into all of that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
But surprise, surprise, what's happening here is this is a very self-serving behavior by the House Republicans, by Elon Musk to benefit their own pockets, to benefit their own bottom line while screwing everyday Americans. I'm glad, though, that all this kind of Doge stuff is quickly being exposed as a complete and total scam this quickly. And you know what?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
Public opinion is shifting on this issue as well. When you look at some of the recent polling out there about Elon Musk, I believe only like 41% of Americans right now, per a new poll, say that Elon Musk, that they like that Elon Musk is being involved in our government assets. at this level. That is a big drop off from what it has been.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And I think we're going to see that because the idea of a billionaire, an unelected bureaucrat who, by the way, unelected bureaucrats are who Elon and Vivek Ramaswamy have been yelling about all of this time. Now, ironically, they are the unelected bureaucrats and they are the shadowy billionaire figures who are coming after the American people.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
And I think the American people are finally feeling and going to wait. I didn't vote for Elon Musk. I didn't vote for this guy. Who are you to tell me that I can't get this health care, this food stamp system, this whatever it is, whatever benefit it is. A billionaire is telling people that they have to suffer, that they have to experience hardship.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump SELF-DESTRUCTS + Meidas LANDS Biden EXCLUSIVE
it's things like wait it's not like there's a uh it's not like there's a billionaire car company owner who relies on those sort of foreign investments and oh wait a second now i think i understand why elon musk has sent hundreds if not thousands of tweets about this to sink it
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
He's clearly coached to say as little as possible in these hearings. By the way, I feel like all these people are kind of coached to say as little as possible. You kind of have to assume that most, if not all of these nominees are going to get through now that they've made it to this stage. It's just the makeup of the Republicans, the makeup of the Senate, of the Congress.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
And then they're going to vote along party lines. Some of them will be much wider margins than others, depending on if they're more serious candidates or if they're people like a Hegseth. But Besant's going to get in there easy. But it's still good to get these folks on the record with these questions, which I think why that line of questioning was so important.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
even if he didn't give a straight answer there. But he did give a straight answer in that Bernie Sanders clip, and I thought that was very telling to hear him say adamantly, no, I'm not interested in a federal minimum wage. That's a state issue. The federal minimum wage, it's a federal minimum wage. It's absolutely not a state issue. It's been $7.25 for decades now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
It's quite frankly an embarrassing minimum wage that our country is at. But what I think that folks who want to oppose this administration and this party need to continuously emphasize is the fact that this is the party of the oligarchs. And that's why I was very excited to hear President Biden make that stark warning during his speech, which we'll get to later, his farewell address. But
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
One of the things that I've been pulling my hair out, and I know I've said it on the show, maybe every episode since the election, is like, isn't it so obvious? Look at the people who are running this party. You have Vivek Ramaswamy, who in my opinion, by all accounts, basically scammed his way into becoming a billionaire with the way that he basically did this pump and dump scheme to get rich.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
You have Elon Musk. You have Donald Trump. You have people like Scott Bess. You literally, you have all the oligarchs coming together right now. You have all the kind of big tech people coming together. You have the Zuckerbergs. You have the Bezos. It couldn't be more clear, and the contrast couldn't be more clear.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
So it's like you have something to run against here, and you have policies that are very popular amongst the people. I mean, there's a reason, love him or hate him, there's a reason that Senator Bernie Sanders has something like a 69% oversight. approval rating. I saw this earlier today, 69% approval rating in his state, highest in the entire United States Senate. His disapproval is just that 27%.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Those are unbelievable numbers, unbelievable approval numbers to have in the Senate. And why? It's because he is speaking to these issues. Now, more people should be speaking to these issues that actually resonate with working people. Ironically, many of the people who voted for Trump for whatever reason,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
But these are the people whose policies, the policies of Trump, are going to ultimately end up hurting. And it's like they're laughing in their face when they have Elon Musk up there kind of mocking them and mocking government workers. And you have the Bezos and all these people. It couldn't be clearer. You have such an opportunity for clear, concise messaging on this topic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Don't let that slip away.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
So how would you handle matters relating to tariff policy, what Donald Trump's going to do by imposing blanket tariffs on every country basically across the world? Will that raise prices? Is it going to create hardship for everyday Americans?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
When it comes to cookware, I've always struggled with choosing between the performance and durability of stainless steel pans and the easy cleanup of non-stick. But then I discovered Hexclad and let me tell you, it's completely revamped my entire kitchen and it's made all my friends pretty jealous. With Hexclad, you don't have to choose.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Their pans combine the performance of stainless steel with the convenience of non-stick in one incredible design. So whether I'm searing a steak, making a delicate omelet, or whipping up a quick stir-fry, Hexclad handles it all beautifully. In cleanup, it's a breeze. These pans are dishwasher safe and wipe clean effortlessly. It's seriously the best of all worlds.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
One of my favorite things about Hexclad is how durable they are. I don't have to worry about scratches, even when using metal utensils, thanks to their patented hexagon design, plus they're oven safe up to 500 degrees, making them perfect for finishing dishes in the oven. I've even tried their Japanese Damascus steel knives, and they're a game changer.
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razor sharp, they make slicing and dicing feel effortless, and they stay sharp much longer than your average knife. Here's the kicker, Gordon Ramsay himself uses Hexclad in his restaurants and at home, and we all know he's the toughest critic on the planet. If it's good enough for him, it's definitely good enough for me.
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For a limited time, only our listeners get 10% off your order with our exclusive link. Just head to hexclad.com slash Midas. Support our show and check them out at hexclad.com slash Midas. Make sure to let them know that we sent you. Bon appetit. Let's eat with Hexclad's revolutionary cookware.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
It was a good bit. I mean, Ben knew how long the senators actually have to ask questions. He was going to fill that whole time.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
So he just takes a big spill right off the bat, just nose dives backwards.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Yeah, to remind everyone, he gets arrested after that.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
He gets arrested after that and then ends up in the hospital and takes a picture in the hospital. You can judge for yourself if you look up the picture whether this injury is legitimate or not.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Whole lot going on, folks. It's great to be here with everybody. Quick update here from Los Angeles. It feels like things are stabilizing here, which is good. Hopefully things stay that way. Hopefully these winds don't knock anything back up. Thanks again to everybody for all your support over these past few crazy weeks. Oh my gosh, so much in the news right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Are you looking for something simple and delicious to add to your wellness routine? I used to rely on regular honey for my breakfast tea and even salad dressings. But then I found Manicora and let me tell you, it puts all other honey to shame. Manicora honey is rich, creamy, and the most delicious honey I've ever had. The best part?
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It's ethically produced by master beekeepers in the remote forests of New Zealand. These bees collect nectar from the Manuka tea tree, which is packed with bioactives, giving Manicora three times more antioxidants and prebiotics than your average honey. Each morning, I start my day with a heaped teaspoon of Manicora, letting the creamy texture melt in my mouth and coat my throat.
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And it's not just a treat, it's packed with powerful nutrients to support my immunity and gut health. And here's something that sets Manokora apart. It contains a special antibacterial compound called MGO, which comes from the Manuka tea tree. Manokora tests every harvest for MGO, and you can see the results yourself through their QR system. It's a honey with superpowers.
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Whether you're adding it to your food or enjoying it straight off the spoon, it's a game changer. Now, it's easier than ever to try Manicora Honey. Just head to Manicora.com slash Midas, that's M-E-I-D-A-S, to get $25 off the starter kit, which includes an MGO 850 Plus Manuka Honey Jar, five honey travel sticks, a wooden spoon, and a guidebook.
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That's Manicora.com slash Midas for $25 off your starter kit. Start your mornings with Manicora. You'll never go back to ordinary honey.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
We made a big announcement on our social media as well this week. that we will not be airing the inauguration here on Midas Touch. We've decided, our editorial staff came together, and we have determined that it is in the best interests of our audience, of the country, for us not to be streaming the inauguration live. We will be having some alternative programming.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Well, first, I just want to pitch, before we get into the economic updates, I just want to pitch our idea for the inauguration. I want to see what the folks think in the comments. So you can let us know in the comments. What if instead of airing the inauguration, because we're not going to air the inauguration, what if we just air videos of puppies throughout the inauguration?
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
I'm not even exaggerating. What if throughout the inauguration- We just do a stream of a loop of a bunch of videos of adorable puppies the entire time. If you like this idea, let us know in the comments. Let us know here in the live chat. I want to hear your thoughts. I'm not kidding. We will go ahead. And you know what would be hilarious as well?
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
If our stream of watching puppies gets more views than the streams of the inauguration. Just an idea. Just an idea, folks. We're throwing it out there. If you like it, Let us know. Okay, time for everybody's favorite segment. Let's get right into it. This is the NetSuite by Oracle Know Your Numbers Minute. All right, it's time for the NetSuite by Oracle Know Your Numbers Minute.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Let's get into the latest economic updates here. As everybody knows, NetSuite provides easy access to economic data and trends through integrated analytics. So let's break down some of that data, shall we, folks? We're seeing some news on mortgages and mortgage rates right now. The 30-year mortgage rate is back above 7% for the first time since May. Freddie Mac says the average rate is now 7.04%.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
This is quite frankly one of the least affordable times to buy a home in the past 40 years. And it's going to be hard to spur a lot more buying or building with rates this high. And I want to be clear, rates were coming down quite substantially leading up to the November elections. That all changed following the results of the elections.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
In fact, just a few weeks ago, the CEO of Compass was interviewed on CNBC. And they said that prior to the election, it was Compass's view that the mortgage rates were heading to the fives either next year or the following year. But then we had these fears of new tariffs and other inflationary policies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
from Donald Trump, from the incoming administration that have now changed the court's course of rates. Now we're seeing them come back up to historically high levels in the past few decades. Honestly, I think it's a huge bummer because, as Ben was saying before, things were heading in the right direction.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Everything was on the up and up, and then we had this huge reversal over these past few months, just the sign of more things to come. In inflation news, we had a new inflation report come out. Inflation was a mixed bag in December. In the report that came out this week, the Consumer Price Index, the CPI, showed some relief in core inflation, which was definitely some positive news.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
But the threat of those sticky high prices continue to loom. Although inflation has been slowing, it still remains above that 2% level by the Federal Reserve. the consumer price index increased to seasonally adjusted 0.4% on the month, putting the 12-month inflation rate at 2.9%. That number was exactly in line with the forecasts of what the experts thought that it was going to come in at.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
The core CPI annual rate, and for those who don't know the core CPI, it excludes food and energy prices because those are much more volatile. So this is a more stable way to measure the underlying inflation trends, though slow to 3.2%, which was a notch down from the month before, so slightly better than the 3.3% outlook that analysts had predicted. That excited investors quite a bit.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
We could get to that maybe a little later or give you some of our ideas, see what you think about it. I think we could still have fun on that horrible day. Int, int, lots of puppies. He's not kidding. It's supposed to be a surprise. Come on. I was trying to do the deep tease over here. Let me tell you exactly what it is. That's not how hints work. Yeah. Ben's not good at the deep tease. It's okay.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
If you all saw the various markets, the stock market indices rise in a big way on Wednesday, that was why, because the markets reacted positively to that number. NetSuite offers tailored reporting features that allow businesses to focus on specific stock market indicators relevant to their sector. That way, your business can always be ahead of the curve no matter what happens.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Shelter prices, housing, which comprise about one third of the CPI weighting rose by 0.3%, but we're up 4.6% from a year ago. That's the smallest one-year gain since January 2022.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
The stubborn inflation numbers are going to present an interesting situation, I'd say, for the Federal Reserve in the coming year because, as you remember from our reporting, the Fed was getting ready to do a lot of aggressive rate cuts. over the next few years. And we saw the beginning of that happen kind of prior to the election and kind of just after.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
But now as Trump's policies are expected to contribute to higher prices, and this is how you can kind of separate the BS, the bluster, the messaging from what's actually happening. You see how the actual, how the feds are reacting, how the economic experts are reacting. because these policies are expected to contribute to higher prices.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Markets aren't expecting the next Federal Reserve rate cut to come now before June, despite the fact that we've had this better than expected economic data. So there's my economic update. That's where things stand. That's where things are heading. Obviously, things could change, but we always think it's important to bring you the latest updates as we have them. Thank you to NetSuite by Oracle.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
That was the NetSuite by Oracle Know Your Numbers Minute. Do you know your own numbers for your business? Download NetSuite's ultimate KPI checklist right now at netsuite.com slash Midas.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
People seem to like the puppy idea, I gotta say.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
confident that the puppy stream is going to get more than any inauguration stream so that's really what i want to know could we get more like if we look at the midas touch puppy inauguration stream and then we compare it to like msnbc yeah name your name name your stream can we get more viewers on videos of puppies and ben could come in and narrate the puppies too and do some voiceovers you know tell you what's going on with the pups right they're super adorable super cute
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Could we get more views? Just an idea, folks. Just an idea.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Well, he basically replicated the photo. I want to be clear. It's not the same exact photo, but he basically replicated the post.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
It's okay. There's more. We'll get into more of that after. But that's it for me for now. I'm excited to get into the news. Jordy, how's it going by you?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
I love Maple Mighty. I've also seen people, because we have a lot of people in Canada who listen to and watch the show, which is super cool. We've obviously been entering Canadian politics a bit and covering Canada, and we will in this episode as well. I also saw the Maple Midas, which I really like as well. I love our Canadian fans. I love all of our fans.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Yeah, I thought this was a powerful clip. And I think President Biden is obviously, he's always very deliberate in his language. And so, you know, these warnings carry a lot of weight to me when he says these things. I think we need to take it to heart. So earlier today, President Biden was speaking.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
He gave a farewell address as commander-in-chief to the United States military, and he gave them this message.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Our Canadian fans have been so awesome, so welcoming as we do the coverage. So shout out, Canada.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
This was not part of the job not too long ago. It wasn't you had to be a social media influencer yourself in addition to being a governor or a president. But that's where we are now. And you could tell it's effective, quite frankly, exactly because of what Speaker Johnson there – Speaker Johnson responded –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
That was a response to one of the clips that Brian Tyler Cohen, Brian Tyler Cohen, by the way, did a fantastic interview with Governor Newsom. And I think it's very smart that Governor Newsom is doing these interviews on site and is getting the message out to people in unique ways. It's one of the things that folks need to be doing. It's one of the things that Republicans have excelled at.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
And so now that Speaker Mike Johnson, Elon Musk, these people are seeing that, oh, shit, Democrats are wising up. Look at them going on, getting their message out in ways that they're supposed to be the way we've been doing. They're like, oh, no, no, no, that's our thing. You're not allowed to do that. That's what we do.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
And so now we're going to demean you for doing exactly what you need to be doing in this era because we don't want you to counter our bullshit. We don't want you to counter our lies or disinformation. We want to be able to do this and just run
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
over you with these lies every single day while you're out there trying to do your job but newsom realized you know i'm talking he's like i'm talking to people out there these first few days and they're coming to me and they're saying uh oh this is to uh to form a uh the democratic cabal pedophile ring and all and he was like where are you getting this stuff from like what are you even talking about right now and they would be like twitter elon musk you know and that's the problem with this with this new ecosystem
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
these lies spread so quickly and i think yeah i've even made the mistake in the past of thinking that this was insulated into this online bubble the fact is these lies go beyond that bubble they reach normal people and by the way people who are pretty smart people i hear echo all out of these lies It gets to them. They think it's fact. They then spread it.
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MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
They tell it to their friends, their family. Next thing you know, there's a whole large section of the population that believes these lies are the truth no matter how outrageous they are, no matter where they started from because they even lose where they – people don't know this started with Donald Trump or started with the –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
They just know the information that their friend told them that this is what's happening, even when it's the complete opposite of the truth. Like I saw this post that was saying that Gavin Newsom was trying to – this is all part of Gavin Newsom's plot to sell off the land to speculators on the cheap so that he could give all the land away in Los Angeles to these speculators.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
was actually like when you actually played the clip that they were referencing it was gavin newsom saying the opposite that he wanted to make sure that the people of the city were protected from vultures trying to swoop in and take their property it was the up gavin newsom signed like an executive order right to that point but then maga then attacks him and says well now you're screwing over the people because they should be able to sell yeah
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
And let's face it, all of this right now is also coming from a place where Republicans are looking ahead in politics. They're looking to 2028. They see that Governor Newsom is clearly going to be one of the top contenders for the Democratic nomination. They view this as a moment where they could weaken him politically. And we can Democrats politically in the state of California and nationally.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
That is part of this whole plan. It's sick. It's devious. It's cynical. It's in the middle of a crisis where people are suffering. And it truly hits home for me and all of us here because we are living in that. Well, not you, Jordi, but me and Ben. and so many people who work with us live in this city, live in this state, and it is just so abhorrent to see this kind of behavior.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
But all in all, watching this, I actually think that Gavin Newsom has done a remarkable job. I think he has risen to this occasion. I think despite all the shit that they've thrown at him, that Newsom has proven himself to be a very effective leader in a time of crisis. I think he's been very effective at getting the truth out. I think he's been very effective at
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
consoling people in this state and the city. I think he's been very good at kind of telling people where we go next from here, dealing with the crisis in real time and being an effective communicator. And that is one of the reasons why MAGA hates him so much. That is one of the reasons why they try to spread all of this crap about him. And I'll definitely defend him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
I think that he's doing a fantastic job during a very difficult time. And shame on the people. And by the way, I'm not saying that anyone is above reproach. I'm not saying that anybody is beyond receiving criticism. But what they are doing to Newsom right now is possibly even more than what they've done to Biden over the past few years in a truncated time period.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
The lies they are spreading, the disinfo they are throwing at this guy, the way they are doing this in the middle of a crisis, it is absolutely vile. Vile stuff, inexcusable stuff. But thankfully, I think he's equipped well to handle the situation and the climate.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
If you're not reading Ron's recaps of minusplus.com every day, you're missing out. I'm just going to be honest with you. You're missing out. You're missing out. You got to read Ron's recaps. It's today in politics bulletins that come out every day.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
they are fantastic and i think i followed the news all day sometimes i look at these recaps and i go i didn't even know half of these things happened oh and we're also doing ad free episodes of the midas touch podcast we release them the following day on the midas plus as well so check that out make sure you also subscribe on audio to the audio podcast so wherever the midas touch podcast is available on audio even if you don't like listening to audio podcasts and you always get the video
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
I got to say, this shocked me. I'm not going to lie, Ben, this really surprised me because like you said, usually you're in this period and you think you're having this honeymoon period where your ratings are going to be high. And some of the initial approval polls of Trump were in the positive territory. I mean, some of the best polls that he's received.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
And by the way, while being in the positive territory, still lower historically than most presidents, if not all presidents when they actually enter office, but positive nonetheless. So it's been interesting to see over the past few weeks that these numbers have shifted so strongly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
And I think it's because folks are finally, or already rather, seeing what a Trump administration means and are seeing that a Trump administration is quite literally an administration for the billionaires, for the oligarchs. So I'll pull up this poll, Ben, while you speak about it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Do you notice, by the way, that everything that he says, like the whole thing in the beginning, right, was Doge, right? We're going to create this department of government efficiency, which is like a fake pseudo department. And then the first hint that this wasn't going to be super efficient was him assigning two people to run Doge, two people run the departments. So we had two people run it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Not very efficient. Now it seems like every announcement, he's just making government bigger. I don't know if people who consider themselves conservative realize the irony of this. We already have departments that collect tariffs. That's already a thing that we have. The Custom Service, the Custom and Border Patrol, they handle tariffs. So now Donald Trump wants to put a duplicative...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
department in the government thereby making the us government even larger just doesn't sound super efficient but what i've noticed about a lot of the things that trump says is that and i don't mean to sound demeaning to people but a lot of things probably sound really good to really dumb people and i and i've noticed the people the people who get excited about this are always the same kind of suspects and i see them on the other apps too i see them on tick tock i see them on the various
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
Exactly. Gulf of America, bro. We got golf. I'm like, this is the dumbest shit on the planet. What are we doing here? People like and you know what? That's the weapon of mass distraction. Right. Because like the dog in the movie Up, Donald Trump is able to go.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch RESPONDS to BREAKING NEWS before DAY 1 - 1/16/25
gulf of america gulf of america wave the keys where it's a squirrel scroll over there and then his followers like the ones i'm speaking about they go squirrel and they look over there and then meanwhile all the stuff is damaging their lives raising prices raising mortgage rates really screwing them over while they're they're pumping their chests and pumping their fists over the fact that he wants to rename something gulf of america or has created another department that is useless and has no point i mean it's the same thing every time i think this every time the
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Everything, it's so stupid. Everything he does is just so dumb and counterproductive. It's like the definition of bad governing. And ironically, it's the complete opposite of efficiency for this administration that is pushing this whole idea of government efficiency. We are just seeing move after move meet the backlash that it should be getting.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
We are seeing move after move just kind of backfiring on him, making the problems worse, crashing the markets. ruining the economy. And I was thinking back when I was watching that disastrous Oval Office meeting today, Donald Trump's comments about NATO from just the other day. I remember when Trump was asked, do you think NATO would defend the United States?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Or he was asked something to that effect. Trump basically said, no. He said, I'm not so sure about that, actually. Now, looking back at that, I think what Trump was getting at was if I invade Greenland or if I invade Canada, would the rest of NATO come to my defense, which is not how that works. It's a defensive alliance, not a go invade your neighbors and invade other members of NATO alliance.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
And so I think that's when Donald Trump demands loyalty from people like NATO. I think he is demanding that they follow him into these horrific plans. And he's trying to bully them. He's trying to bully our allies every single day. It's tariffs on, tariffs off. Oh, now we're going to do this 200% tariff. This is what he woke up and did this morning.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
200% tariff on all alcohol, all liquor and wine and champagne coming from the EU. That was his big plan, which then sent the markets into another nosedive. It's just one erratic move after one erratic move.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Just think about this as an example of the waste of Doge and the waste of what the government is doing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
They spent all this money and time sending migrants from the United States to Guantanamo Bay, a military prison, which should not exist in the first place, but sending them to a military prison where the most suspected, most violent terrorists, basically, people on the terrorist watch, these are the people who are down there, to Guantanamo Bay, sending migrants alongside them.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
And even at the peak of Guantanamo Bay, in I believe around 2003, Guantanamo came after the 9-11 attacks, even at its peak, it held about 650 detainees. Currently, as of right now, basically, there's around 15 detainees, 15 terror suspects being held at Guantanamo Bay.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
And Donald Trump advertised, Donald Trump announced that he wanted to have 30,000 people in this area that at its peak was only able to handle 650 and was currently handling 15. They spent all this money. Remember, there were all those reports about the military planes, which cost way more also than the planes that they were originally flying.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
um ultimately all they ended up doing was making these propaganda videos getting their headlines and it was just a complete what a stain on american history for us to even do this in the first place oh yeah they also made that completely sick and twisted asmr video you remember that asmr video where they had the migrants and chains and they posted a video as if they were like animals
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
It's just some of the most horrific stuff that's all about making a cops style TV show for the American public to act like we're doing something when they're not even doing anything.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
also known as zombie cells. Old and worn out and not serving a useful function for our health anymore, but they're taking up space and nutrients from our healthy cells. For me, that's meant higher energy levels, faster recovery, and feeling years younger. And it's made with science-backed ingredients, totally non-GMO, vegan, and gluten-free, so you know you're putting quality into your body.
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MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Plus, there's a 100-day money-back guarantee, so there is zero risk in trying it. So if you want to resist aging at the cellular level, go to qualialife.com slash Midas for up to 50% off and use code Midas at checkout for an additional 15% off. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A life.com slash Midas, M-E-I-D-A-S for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Yeah, and this whole notion that Ukraine needs to apologize, Canada needs to apologize, they should be more respectful, it's so dystopian and Orwellian and just the opposite of reality. It's like, here we are as the United States of America under Trump punching Canada in the face, just sucker punching them for no reason. And then we're like, say thank you, say thank you, say thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
When you see also just the phrasing that Trump uses online, you see this continued. And by the way, I want to be clear, this is the language of an abuser, textbook abuser language that Donald Trump is using. And so, you know, let me go through those tweets or those truth social posts from Trump that we brought up quickly at the top. Because it speaks to this exact issue.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Then we'll get back into some of the other things that Trump's advisors are saying. But you go to this one right here where it says, Trump says, the U.S. doesn't have free trade. We have stupid trade. The entire world is ripping you off. Bro, you made the trade agreement. This is your trade agreement. The stupid trade, if you think it's stupid, then you think you are stupid. Okay, how about that?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Let's go to this. I think this is incredibly revealing when Donald Trump says, the European Union, one of the most hostile and abusive tariff and taxing authorities in the world. Okay. Let me just stop right there. So when Donald Trump does his tariffs, they're big, beautiful tariffs. Tariffs are the best tool in the world. Everybody loves tariffs. Tariffs are so smart.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
But when the EU or Canada or Mexico or whoever reciprocates with tariffs of their own, all of a sudden it is, quote, hostile. and abusive. Like the hypocrisy here is just out of control and people are suffering for it. As we see with the markets crashing, going to their lowest levels, the S&P 500, by the way, is now officially in correction territory. That's when it comes 10% off of its record.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
And not only is it in correction territory, it's the seventh fastest correction of a market in the S&P 500 since 1929. Do you know what year 1929 was? The year of the Great Depression. That's the volatility. That represents the crashes that we are seeing right now in the stock market as Donald Trump's advisors go on TV like these North Korean propagandists and say, everything's so great.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Everyone's going to get gold cards. You're all going to be rich. This is the golden age. You're just going to have to suck up some pain. That's what's happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
No, no, you're right. It's a total crash. These graphs are absolutely devastating, and I don't have these ones necessarily here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
But when you look at, for example, the graph comparing the beginning of the Trump administration, these 50 or so days compared to President Biden's first year tracking that, you see Biden goes up, up, up, up, up, and you see Trump goes up very slightly from the Biden economy still and then just crashes hard. I think every single day folks are looking at their 401ks.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
They're looking at all this stuff. I always say stuff like this, but it's like if they were honest that they really wanted to cut spending and they were like, we got to tighten our belts and we were doing it because the country was really in bad shape, I would understand it. But as Bernie Sanders often points out at these rallies, we are the richest country on earth.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
We were the fastest growing country ever. of all modern countries, period, under President Biden. And Donald Trump has just decided to take that growth and ruin it for no reason. And when you look under the hood at what they are doing, you see all the chaos that's being caused by Doge, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
You're seeing all these hardworking federal employees lose their jobs, be denigrated by the Trump administration, be told that they're worthless, be told that they are leeches on the system despite their hard work.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
when you see them messing with the social security systems and these doge kids going through social security yesterday they had to reverse a policy where they were taking away the ability for social security recipients to reach the social security office by the phone and then they got a lot of backlash had to redo that
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
all this chaos being pushed into the system, you would say, well, if they're doing all that, I would at least hope there are some savings going on here, right? Maybe they're trying to really get rid of the big stuff. But the fact is, they're not. These are all things that are very actually tiny in the budget when they are going through these things.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
but they are enough to cause chaos in the markets. They are enough to cause families to be devastated, people to lose their livelihoods.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
And at the same time, they are trying to push through that bill, which would give $4.5 trillion in tax cuts to the richest Americans, which would more than undo any amount of paltry savings that they are trying to advertise, even in the fake Doge numbers that are listed on their website.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
They wanted to say, we're going to make $100 bazillion. $100 bazillion.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Yeah, the whole thing's a scam. Anytime I hear Letnick speak, my skin crawls. There are certain people, every time you watch this guy, I don't understand how even a Trump supporter doesn't watch that guy and go like, oh, you're scamming me right now. You are trying to rip me off. It's the craziest propaganda. It is so, so incredibly obvious.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
But I think you see even throughout these communities because people start understanding this stuff when it hits home for them. And so you may be a Wall Street guy who backed Trump. Once you see what's happening to the markets, I think you quickly start to rethink if he's really a business genius, which I don't know how you got duped by in the beginning, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
You could support Trump and be from an immigrant community in Florida. Once your family is being deported, you know, I think you have a bit of a different opinion as to what's going on. And we are seeing various communities all across the United States right now having to deal with Donald Trump and what he's doing. It's hitting people on a very personal level.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
We saw a story the other day about a federal employee who was a Trump supporter, and she was laid off, and she didn't think that she would ever be somebody who would be affected by Donald Trump trying to make the government smaller. But it's every day more stories like that. But that's why we need to keep spreading the message. I will say the tides are certainly turning.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
um we're seeing the people rise up and that's exactly what we need people uh to be rising up standing up to exactly what is going on um because it's clear you know you're not going to be able to rely on politicians all the time um as we've seen in various forms so we got to take it and ask what could we be doing uh for our country at this time and so you know thanks for thanks for being here and doing your part to spread the word
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Yeah, no, it's a total disgrace. And as you said, we're in a moment where we need fighters. And that's why I think it gets really disheartening for people when we see things like Senator Chuck Schumer out there, the Democratic minority leader in the US Senate, come out and say that now he is going to vote for the CR because the CR wouldn't be as bad as a government shutdown.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
The United States Congress right now has very few tools that they are able to use, the Democrats in Congress against the Republican Party. This right here was one of them. And I think one of the most kind of painful things about this also was the sort of head fake yesterday when he came out and he said that he was going to oppose this bill and that the Democratic Party was united in opposition.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
like don't don't lie to the people right if if you're going to fight fight um but it's almost worse to do what he did here which is lead people on say that they were going to basically play this game of chicken with the republican party ideally force them to take out the bad things in this continuing resolution remain united on a plan to keep the government open for 30 days as democrats he basically made that whole thing up
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
and just decided to cave today and opened up the caucus to do the same if they so choose so we'll see how the vote goes the vote is scheduled for for friday but now that schumer is saying that i think it changes the calculation from what we saw yesterday but you know we need people right now who are built for this moment we need people who are who are fighters right now
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
And we need people who are messengers. You need people who are going to get out there and are going to be able to really appropriately say the stakes of what is going on here and be clear here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Because even in the latest polls, there was a poll from Quinnipiac that was released earlier, I believe it was them, that said when you added up the amount of people who blame Donald Trump for a potential government shutdown,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
and blame the Republican Party for a government shutdown, it was around 52 or 53% of the total people blamed one of them for the shutdown, when the number who blamed the Democrats was 32%. So that's just an initial data point right there. Now imagine if you actually explained to your constituents
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
that you are standing up to not allow Doge to continue to make cuts to the American people's programs, that you are going to stand up and not accept this budget that is being forced down by the Republican Party without the inputs of the Democrats giving Musk, giving Trump free reign to do what they want. Just stand up, just fight, and show people that you're going to fight.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
That's what people want right now, and I think that's the source of so much frustration. At the same time, that's why I like seeing the people rising up at these town halls and doing these things,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Because ultimately, people need to take it into their own hands and make their voices heard and show their frustration, no matter who their frustration is aimed against, whether it's aimed at, honestly, anybody at this point. You should be making your voices heard.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Well said, Ben. Shout out to the Midas Mighty.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
a russian nesting doll of lies uh no pun intended or maybe pun intended in in this case um but you know you know all their arguments are are garbage because like if they had an honest good reasoning for the things that they were doing they would just be truthful with the american people but they get on tv they have to act like north korean propagandists saying this is the best 50 days we've ever had oh all hail glorious leader they have to make up that uh for
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
They keep going back to we have the worst trade agreements ever with Mexico and Canada. Whoever did these trade agreements with Mexico and Canada really screwed Americans over badly. And you just want to jump out of your chair and go, Donald, this is Donald Trump's deal. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. This is quite literally the USMCA, which Donald Trump negotiated himself.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
Everybody is abiding by this deal. Nothing has changed regarding this deal. And the excuses surrounding the fentanyl are quite frankly, completely made up. They're made up excuses. And you know they're made up, especially so because these are on Canada too. And Canada, what, Ben? There's like 40 pounds of fentanyl that comes to the Canadian border.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
I think more fentanyl comes from the United States and goes to Canada than the opposite way around. And also they try to cite the trade deficit with Canada when, I believe if we remove energy, it's actually a trade surplus we have with Canada, especially in manufacturing. So everything that they are saying are just lies. They are gaslighting the American people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
it doesn't really seem like donald trump has any sort of long-term plan they keep having to reverse their major policies that they are putting forward they do the big showing to get the headline they do a big showing to try to scare another country the other countries don't back down trump looks at the market sees it falling panics makes a decision that actually makes everything worse and then it's just an endless repeat of this cycle that we are seeing every single day i feel like i'm waking up in in the movie groundhog day
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
um reliving just donald trump's madness as he doubles down triples down quadruples down on these failed policies and the american people right now are picking up on it you're seeing across the board donald trump's approval rating just absolutely sinking and on key issues like trump's approval on the economy on the new ipsos poll 51 disapprove 39 approve regarding the U.S.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
making Canada the 51st state. 80% disagree. 17% agree. Got to imagine that 17% is the most rabid of the MAGA. It's a good idea for the U.S. to charge higher tariffs on imported goods if even if prices increase. 53% disagree. I could go through poll after poll after poll. Most Americans disapprove of Donald Trump.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 3/14/25
and are now disapproving of Donald Trump at the fastest rate and at the biggest rate in American history for a president at this stage of his presidency. So, so long, honeymoon. That has long passed. Now it's just the no pain, no gain theory of running the government, as Tommy Tuberville said, but all the American people right now are feeling is the pain.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Can I read one thing before you read this? Let me read this, okay? Before Ben reads what Donald Trump said in this Time Magazine article that was released today, here is what Donald Trump said in September in front of his followers. And he said this at multiple rallies, many rallies, many events. Many phone calls to Fox News. Here's just one example from September.
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Quote, vote Trump and your incomes will soar. Your net worth will skyrocket. Your energy costs and grocery prices will come tumbling down. With that in mind, Ben.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I at least appreciate that they didn't edit it for clarity. He didn't answer it for clarity. As he said it, because it's one of those ramblings that it's nearly impossible to read. But I mean, just a stunning admission right there, right? And you see how he's already trying to sort of get out of the responsibility of the very problems that he is going to cause.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And those same issues that he wrote to Victory, by the way, the same issues that have been improving, year after year after year, and many of those issues, including especially the supply chains that he was talking about, that were completely devastated by COVID and Donald Trump's handling of COVID.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
He's once again trying to put that blame on the Biden administration, who actually went in and fixed the problem. I mean, people really seriously, and I know it's a late message, but we've said it all throughout the campaign also. People really don't remember what it was like in January 2021. People really are unable to put themselves back in that place. But things were grim, folks.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Things were very grim. There was many people dying a day. Everything was completely falling apart. Companies were decimated. People were out of work. Things were as bad as it gets when President Biden dies. You remember that first Time magazine? I think back to that, the cover. It was President Biden.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
It was that desk that was filled with papers and just the White House and utter chaos, such a complete and total mess. And I forgot what the message was, but it was something like his turn to clean up or something to that effect. I'd have to look it up. Um, but, but that's how the Biden administration began.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And then you look at the metrics that we have here, that if you looked at these things on paper, you'd be like, oh, of course that guy would win a second term or, you know, whoever his successor is, because this is undeniably the best in the world. And could things be better? Of course. But, you know, the hole that we had to dig out of this Trump hole was absolutely devastating.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And and Trump managed to ride his own destruction back to the White House. I think it's the the irony of this entire thing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode.
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Yeah. Can I just get serious for a second? I just want to honestly, I know Bezos is going through some hard times. I know Zuckerberg, they've fallen on some hard times. Just being strangled, strangled by the regulation. So I just want to send my heart, my thoughts and my prayers to them during these very difficult times. I
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I'm so sorry that you've gained hundreds of billions of dollars during this administration, but I maybe wanted more. I don't know. I know times are tough, but you'll get through it, guys. You'll get through it, okay? I believe you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Yeah, it's so incredibly stressful because the last thing on the planet I'm going to say is that the Democrats are perfect and that everything they do is great. I'm not gonna say that. But what I will say is at least a majority of the time, they're at least trying to push the country in the right direction.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And they are at the whims of the obstruction of the Republicans who have brilliantly figured out this plan to obstruct and not only to obstruct, but to use the means of communication to propagandize and to convince people that Democrats are the cause of your problems. To convince people that transgender people are the cause of your problems.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
To convince you that gay people are the cause of your problems. Migrants are the cause of your problems. I could keep going down the list, but they have devised and executed this scheme quite brilliantly. the Republicans, where you have so much of the country, quite frankly, going, oh, Democrats, Republicans, oh, they're all the same. It's just not true.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And I understand that folks are looking for a bit more radical change right now when it comes to certain things, that people are pissed off that these programs are not working for the American people. And I totally get it. And I totally agree. But you have the Republicans, quite frankly, trying to take us backwards at every step. Do you think, Ben,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Do you think that these Trump voters, many of whom are working class, do you think that one of the priorities they wanted Donald Trump to tackle on day one is to remove the IRS's direct file system that made filing taxes easy for them? I can guarantee you that is not something that they were eager about, right? That's not something that they were hoping for with this administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Do you think they wanted billionaires to get exclusivity to the government, to get extra rights for the government? I just don't think that that's the energy that we're seeing in this country right now. I think people were hoodwinked in many ways into believing that Donald Trump is a guy who's going to help the working class. And I think as we see day in and day out,
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Donald Trump doing everything he can to empower these billionaires. And then this billionaire group, this billionaire oligarch group of people like Jeff Bezos, of people like Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk. You see Bezos and Musk now donating each a million dollars. to Donald Trump's inaugural fund, just kissing the ring like this, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And you start seeing what's going... It becomes so obvious, I think, to me, who is kind of in control and who is trying to get special treatment and who wants a seat at the table in this administration. And it has never been more transparent who this administration is for. And I can guarantee you that so many of even these Trump voters, that this is not what they were voting for.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
They were not voting for the billionaires, but we all knew that this was going to be an administration for the billionaires. Hopefully, as things progress, they will soon find out. They will reach that fine. I know some of them have. I've seen a lot of comments. I've seen a lot of reports on this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
But I think a lot more of them are going to start to realize, oh, wait, why is Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos and Elon, why are these people making decisions about my life? Wait, they get priority over me while they tell me that I have to cut back? Wait, Elon Musk is getting...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
new grants and new government programs and new government contracts, but I need to cut down on my social security payments. And I'm not able to use this free government IRS filing service anymore because Intuit and TurboTax want me to use their service. And so they lobbied their friends in the Trump administration. That doesn't seem super fair. And reality is going to hit.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And when it hits, it's going to hit pretty hard.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I just want to do a quick compare though while we're on the subject of messaging because the one thing that I will say Trump is good at is he's marketing, right? He's good at getting the message out. He says things very kind of dumbed down and very clearly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And so I'll go back to that, the quote that we were speaking about at the beginning of this episode when Trump was speaking about bringing down prices. Now he's admitting that that was a total lie, but this was his comment from September. I read it earlier, but he said, vote Trump and your incomes will soar. Your net worth will skyrocket.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Your energy costs and grocery prices will come tumbling down. It's a very direct affirmative statement for people to hear. And so the folks who bought into that were like, oh, that's exactly what I want to hear.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Now think about comments from Vice President Kamala Harris, where she couched it in this terminology that would sometimes feel like it came from a marketing firm, like a professional or a PR firm, when she said, I'm going to create an opportunity economy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Like people don't really understand what opportunity economy means, but people understand what your income will soar, your net worth will soar, your prices will come down. Like that's something that people understand. And I think Democrats in general need to kind of take that lesson and they need to be as direct as that. That's why, you know, even we in the past when we were speaking about
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
things like the Inflation Reduction Act and all these bills, we said, let's stop calling them by these lofty names and let's just say what the thing is, right? Like Biden's doing right now. Say, I'm going to cap your prescription drug prices at $2,000 a year. I'm going to negotiate with the drug companies. Your drug prices will come down. Your health will go up.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Just be very straightforward about it and stop couching it in this political language because we need to be direct with the people. All right. We got a lot more to talk about, Ben. I know we'll be right back after this break. Do not go anywhere. See you in a second. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. Hey, I gotta be honest with myself, right?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
For example, after a fun night out with friends at like a local bar or wherever we go, I could still get up the next morning and hit the gym. And I'll admit, I was skeptical at first, but I tried it at a dinner party with some friends. The next morning, I felt great, ready to tackle the day, ready to do more videos here at the Midas Touch Network.
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Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I kept hearing about pre-alcohol and wondered what it was actually like. Now that I've tried it, I get the hype. Plus with their GMO technology, ZBiotics is continuing to create probiotics that tackle the challenges of modern living. Go to zbiotics.com slash Midas to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use code Midas at checkout.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Something I want to add to our editor-in-chief, Ron Filipkowski, every single day during the week.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
is doing these breakdowns these recaps of the day on our midasplus.com that's our sub stack and you should check him out he releases them around uh sometimes like around 4 p.m or 5 p.m a pacific time each day and it's like you could not watch the news all day and then read ron's recaps and you'll be all caught up and me as somebody who is a news junkie
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
and is tuned in to everything throughout the entire day. Even I, reading Ron's recaps, I'm always finding new nuggets of information that I haven't seen before. I mean, he really sees it all. And I've read hundreds of these kind of newsletter recaps in my day. I got to say, Ron's is easily, by far and away, the best, easy read, easy to digest. You can check it out. It's at MidasPlus.com.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I post every day in the evening. Go check it out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Canadian Parliament talking about us.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
a good dad what a good you guys are both such good dads great to be here uh midas mighty um what a week as always the news certainly uh is not slowing down anytime soon and ben as you discuss the things that we're going to talk about on this episode as you break that down i can't help but think that those individuals who voted for donald trump and a republican congress are soon going to learn firsthand
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Like Doug Ford was like – I think he said like, I'm MAGA. He was like the number one Trump fan in Canada saying that he would support everything that he did.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
what that actually means for themselves. And I think as we've seen this kind of anger that's been out there in the public about certain things over the last few weeks, I don't think we see that folks want less of the government helping them out. I don't think they want less health care. I don't think they want less ability to get their prescription drugs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Yeah. And I also want to emphasize the fact that when you look at the Saudis and what they're doing there with Eric Trump and you see all this, you realize that this whole kind of billionaire group that comes together, it's not just limited to the United States. I just want to make sure that that's clear.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
um the country is for sale right now to the highest bidder anywhere in the world and that is one of the issues that we are currently facing um and it is so obvious who this government is for it is so obvious who is running this government under donald trump it in fact could not be clearer and when you see these world leaders speaking out like doug ford like
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Dude, like literally I pulled up some articles about Doug Ford from before the past few weeks. And here's just a couple headlines from the Washington Post in 2018. Doug Ford could bring Trumpism to Ontario. New York Times 2018. Will Canada elect a tin pot Northern Trump? This is from a YouTube channel. MAGA hat wearing Doug Ford supporter is all cringe. That's something making fun of him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Here's Bloomberg, Canada's Donald Trump wins over, Canada's Donald Trump. Well, how did that work out for you, Doug Ford? How did that work out for you? But it's good to see that there are people out there who are standing up to Trump like this. And I hope to see that sort of clarity and more of our leaders here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I think far too often these past few weeks, it has felt like the United States has not even had an opposition party. It has felt that a lot of these Democrats have simply rolled over. And this is a time where they need to be loud about their values. This is a time where they need to really be making their case.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
This is a time where they need to be listening to the American people and their concerns and say, listen, I hear you on health care. And here is our plan on how to move forward. Here's how I want to get health care to all Americans. Listen, I hear you on the housing crisis. Here's the Democratic plan. And they need to speak loudly about these plans and then have the Republicans oppose it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Have the Republicans say, now we don't want to give that to the people. We instead want to give our giveaways to the billionaires. Now we don't want to help housing. And in fact, we want to just help the billionaires to buy up more housing and use them as commodities and grow their wealth that way. We prefer it that way. Put these Republicans on the defense.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I don't think they want billionaires to get everything. And I think they're soon and quickly finding out that Donald Trump is building this oligarchy around him and that he is doing a making a government campaign. That is for the billionaires and by the billionaires. And that is what we're going to see. That's where we're going to see the results.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I don't know why this is so hard and I don't know why there are so many running away from this or worse. rushing to kind of embrace Donald Trump and embrace the people around him. It's simply not what you have to do. And frankly, I do not believe personally it's what the American people are looking for. The American people are looking for fighters.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
The American people are looking for people who are going to stand by them and stand up for their values, stand up for the things that they are screaming about. The American people are being quite clear, in my opinion, about the things that they want.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
now are you going to answer the call it's your time do it or don't do it but i hope that you do it i hope that you pick up on the message because it's coming through loud and clear
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And you already see Trump already backtracking on like every major promise that he made to folks that probably were the promises that helped get him elected. Like, I'm going to bring down prices. How many times have we heard Donald Trump say, and the prices are going to come tumbling down the day I get into office. They're going to come tumbling down. Now he's like, yeah, you know, about that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
As Elon Musk's net worth skyrockets from $200 billion to $400 billion since the election. That's what's happening while they're complaining about the volleyball player or whatever it is.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
I'm not so sure. And now Trump, of course, always says we're gonna be respected on the global stage. And Ben, I love that we've been keeping track here of all of these world leaders who are actually standing up to Trump. I have to say, in many cases, stronger and more effectively than the leaders that we have here, unfortunately.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
But it's great to see these world leaders standing up to Trump and openly mocking him now, talking about Donald Trump saying we'd be respected. We are now back to being the laughingstock on the global stage. And it's a shame, but we're going to break it down. We're going to go through everything that's going on. I'll toss it over to you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Can I just translate that message for a second, the Trump post that you just read there? Trump is essentially saying that you could pollute the environment, you could destroy the United States, you could bypass all of our regulations. You could actually get an expedited path to bypass all of our regulations as long as you invest at least a billion dollars or more in the United States.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
It's quite literally the definition of selling out our country to billionaires. It's screw small business, screw any sort of regular kind of investors. These go into foreign investors, foreign persons, foreign corporations and saying, come invest in the United States and you don't even have to follow play by the rules as long as you have at least a billion dollars or more.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
This is just the very foundation of the oligarchy that he is creating. And it's no wonder that somebody like Elon Musk is like, oh, this is awesome. This is so cool. Elon Musk, I believe today it was announced that he had $400 billion in net worth. Just think about that sum of money. And no matter how much you think about that sum of money, it's an unfathomable, obscene amount of money.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
It's impossible, I think, for anyone's brain to truly wrap around just how much that is. But Donald Trump is saying, if you're Elon Musk, if you're Mark Zuckerberg, if you're Jeff Bezos, if you're one of these foreign billionaires in Saudi Arabia, whatever country, we don't care. As long as you have money, you have a voice in my government. Working class, we don't need you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Regular kind of companies, small businesses, we do not need you. That is what Trump is saying with these posts. and they're just being so explicit about it.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
And when Eric Trump is just flaunting these investments in Saudi Arabia, I mean, you just think now going back to past presidencies like Jimmy Carter with his peanut farm, you think through the lengths that people had to go to divest from their businesses, no matter how big or small. And this was even an issue back in 2016, right, Ben?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
People actually tried to push, they tried to pressure Donald Trump didn't work, to divest from his businesses. Remember, Trump made up that he had a plan. I think this is one of the times Trump brought out the fake sheets of paper and says, here's my plan to divest from my businesses. All BS, 100% BS. Well, no one's even asking him this time around. But why aren't we asking him?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Trump Instantly BETRAYS His Voters…Mocked by WORLD!!!
Why are we just accepting the fact that he's allowed to be intermingled in all of these foreign business deals that are going to have an impact on the way that he governs? It's just absolutely insane, Ben.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
why i why i don't want pain what what are you talking about the crazy thing is i would i i would maybe understand some of this if they were like listen like times are really tough the economy we're in a great depression and we all gotta understand that times are gonna be tough as we get back you know on our feet but Our economy is the best in the world.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
There are obviously a lot of issues with the economy, but our economy has been the best in the world thanks to President Biden bringing us back to the devastation that was wrought by Donald Trump's previous administration. So you saw four years of steady growth. You saw four years of growth.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
uh inflation raising because of what happened with donald trump and the pandemic and the issue with supply chains and you name it and you saw president biden deal with that in a steady way uh execute what is known as a soft landing which many people thought was impossible and now that we're at that soft landing stage uh elon musk and donald trump actually want to destroy people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
they want a hard landing they want to actually hit people over the head and make them suffer and this is like how many times do they have to say this out loud before people get it how many elon said it before the campaign uh trump said it last week you have this guy saying it right now there's no need for americans to suffer for things to improve and the fact that people apparently decided that they want this
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
is one of the most disturbing things to me. But Ben, I think you nailed it. The rage algorithm, people looking beyond their own interests because it just, it upsets me because I have so much empathy and I care so much about these various groups of people. I care so much about the treatment of the Palestinian people. I care so much about the treatment of Muslims in America.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I care so much about these other immigrant groups, the Venezuelans, the Cubans, and to see them be led astray by Donald Trump and to buy his bullshit when everybody should have known that Donald Trump is a master bullshitter and was going to sell these people out the second he could. It just defies any sort of logic to me. I read an interesting article. I'll just like
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
go over quickly, but it was an article about one of Peter Thiel's in-house thinkers. They called him a house philosopher. And this guy's name is Curtis Yarvin, and he's a software engineer. And he developed kind of this program, this plan that we now kind of see Elon Musk following. There's been articles about this guy in the Guardian. and on this website, the Nerd Reich.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And he envisioned, and this is a guy who JD Vance frequently retweets and quote tweets and views as an intellectual genius, this software engineer guy. And he said, quote, If Americans want to change their government, they're going to have to get over their dictator phobia.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And he suggested running the government with a president and then an unelected CEO type who gets to do whatever he wants in the government and destroy the government from within, make the American people feel pain as he rewires the government from the ashes. Does that sound familiar to what's going on right now?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Well, this is somebody who Peter Thiel, who's one of the PayPal mafia guys, he helped start PayPal with Elon Musk and very close, basically responsible for JD Vance. This is like the philosopher, and I use quotes for that, that these people look up to, and this is who they're taking their guidance from right now. So I just think it gives a little bit of perspective.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
He called his operation that he envisioned rage, retire all government employees. And what the writer of this Nerd Reich notes is that rage is basically the same thing as doge under a different name. And that's exactly the plans right now that you see Elon Musk carrying out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
So are you going to join us or are you not? Because they're going to come for us. It's the greatest recruiting tool ever for these groups. Donald Trump has made our country, whether he even acts on these things or not, he has put our country in grave danger the same way that he spiked the stock market for those few hours before he panicked and reversed on his tariffs.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
His actions have real world effects. There's always going to be an opposite reaction to Donald Trump's action. It's the nature of how this works. And so we're frankly, we're not safe under this administration is basically my main point. And we just got to be careful, honestly, with all this stuff.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I mean, it's craziness. It's pandemonium. We can never act like any of this is normal. There really is like a coup of the government happening from the inside. And we're seeing state-run media like you see in Russia and North Korea and other autocratic countries. Fox is just full-on...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And unfortunately, the Republican Party and MAGA and the Fox News of the world all view this as some sort of propaganda game, but the consequences are serious.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Maybe it's like Pinocchio where his ears grow the more he lies.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
state-run media at this point everything they say is bullshit everything's a lie honestly a lot of the stuff i think would make vladimir putin and the stuff he does over in russia blush um with with the level of gaslighting that they have and it's the same pattern though that we've seen from fox over so many years and that's at first they try to tell you what trump really said.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
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Oh, this is actually what he really meant. It's actually four-dimensional chess. And watch, let me show you. And then Hannity goes, oh, you're just not getting it, you people. If you were as smart as me and everybody else, we know that Donald Trump is doing these negotiations. And then inevitably, this is going to happen where
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
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We can workshop it. We can workshop it. And now we go to Jordy to make fun of RFK. Jordy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Frankly, if these kids were bullied a little more, I don't think we'd have Doge. Maybe they needed a little more bullying.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Hannity's gonna be on an interview with Trump one-on-one and he's gonna ask, so this is a negotiation tactic, right? So you're not really, this is just a positioning for the United States. And Trump's gonna go, no, I really mean it. And Hannity's gonna go, but you really don't, right? And the whole cycle's gonna continue like it always does.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
the stupidity is endless the uh they're even using the same talking points right now if you look from fox uh to the white house press secretary to people like pete hegseth you see the talking points um just repeat themselves on all those aspects they are clearly in coordination and if you know let me show you a clip i got a clip of them literally repeating each other's talking points um that i do want to show you um i'll show you this and then i'll just make another point about
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
why Fox is state run TV after you watch this, but this makes it pretty damn clear.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I think it's important as well that we reflect on the weakness that Donald Trump is showing with all these moves and how he continuously now, he tries these big swings and ends up getting swatted down, whether it's by other foreign leaders or whether it's by the judiciary system. And Ben, you know, we use the phrase here that Ben came up with a weapon of mass distraction.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And, you know, Ezra Klein kind of took that... through line, I think, and expanded on it a bit as well. And a great op-ed that I read where he basically said, you know, don't believe Trump. Like he's going to try to throw all this crap, see what sticks. He's going to try to act. He wants everybody to think he's the super powerful king that nobody could say no to.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
But guess what we're seeing time and time again?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
people are saying no to him the courts are shutting him down his team is a complete and utter mess uh they're making all these mistakes they're kind of a disaster behind the scenes uh they can't really do anything right and as they struggle you see the people rising up you see the people taking the streets you see donald trump's approval rating falling dramatically you see elon musk who i think it's weird for just a random public figure to have an approval rating but i guess some people do but you see elon musk's approval rating
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
plummet like i'm talking plummet where most americans um i think only 30 something percent of americans approve of what elon musk is doing right now one of the fascinating things that i saw as well as there's a new poll out amongst republicans who before the election said like 60 or something like that said they were excited about elon musk having a very intimate job in the Trump administration.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Now that's down among Republicans to something like 26% with this new poll. So you're seeing things change. You're seeing perceptions change. So we have to remember that in spite of all the craziness out there, to not fall for all of Donald Trump's antics and to understand that he is not infallible, that we have the strength and we have the energy.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And whether the corporate media wants to show it or not, We're going to show these images. We're going to show the protests. We're going to show the opposition to Donald Trump, the pro-democracy resistance that is taking shape in all forms right now. And we are never going to give up with this. And I know you aren't either. We got to break through the noise. We got to continue to fight.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And I know that you all are going to do this. Oh, you know what I also want to do, if it's OK, just two seconds. I want to show you just a quick clip of our interview with Jim Acosta from earlier. This is, you can see the full thing on the Midas Plus sub stack. We had a great chat with him, spoke to him for like 35 minutes this morning.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
He's such a legend and he is one of the voices out there that is standing strong, that is fighting back, that is not taking the crap, that is not laying down. He's defending our democracy and he had some thoughts about Donald Trump constantly backing down. I'll play it for you right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I'm telling you right now, it's an inflection point right now, right? We may be down bad from the election, right? Everybody's not thrilled to say the least about what happened. But what's happening right now in the background, and not in the background for you, but in the background to the folks in corporate mainstream media, all that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
There's something growing right now that's bigger than ever that they don't even see coming. So let's continue to build that and let's continue to just crush them. As we emerge, it's already too late for them. But it's already too late. But once they finally get wind of what's going on here...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
they're going to be oh crap right they're they're going to freak out so continue to follow all the platforms grow and not just us too but all the pro democracy creators out there make sure you're following let's grow this community and i really mean it i'm going to push you guys really hard this episode because i i want this show to be number one i want this message to get out follow the midas touch podcast on audio we are the number one news podcast now in america i want to be the number one of all podcasts but it's great that we're beating all these mega people
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Because once you're, the higher you are, the more the algorithms push you out, the more they push down the other folks. And we got to drown these people out. It is my mission in life to drown these MAGA voices out and for this community right here to be the one leading the charge. So on that note, I guess I'll leave it to Jordy to sign us out.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Like I said, Mike, you can't... Vladimir Putin is watching that being like, guys, you've got to tone it down a little bit. It's a little on the nose, fellas. And that clip for the audio listeners, you go between Carolyn Levitt, who's the press secretary. You go to Pete Hegseth, who was a Fox News host, plucked right out of Fox News Morning. TV. Then you go to the Fox host praising him.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
They all say the same exact things. And where I was getting at before is if that wasn't enough for you to explain that this is state TV, guess who's getting a new show on Fox, a new weekend show on Fox coming up soon. Lara Trump is going to be hosting a new show where she's going to get into the truth about what is really going on. That's right.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Lara Trump, a former co-chair of the RNC, now getting a show on Fox. But yeah, Trump administration, tell me more about DEI
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
economic thrust of their country so that they can make a determination that they can solve their problems without resorting to totalitarian control and becoming part of the bloc and i want everybody quickly to just be aware of a lot of the disinformation that's going out there right now because one of the things i think that's been the scariest thing for me about this trump administration and frankly it's been a concern of mine for the past
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I don't know, since we've been doing this is that, you know, Fox owns the flow of information that's on cable news. They're the dominant news outlet spreading the news there, and they own a lot of newspapers. And then you have Sinclair that owns a lot of the local news that's repeating right wing talking points. They're right wing conglomerate.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
that own channels that appear to be NBC or appear to be ABC or Fox or whatever. They're actually owned by Sinclair. Then on digital, you have the platforms that are owned by people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. And those are throttling information. Those are pushing certain information to the top. And so these lies spread so quickly.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
So I see every day now a new lie that is built up in order to justify the destruction of these agencies and to smear people and to destroy them, to fire them, to maybe ultimately imprison them. And it worries me because it doesn't look like the United States at all, but it does look like Russia. It does look like what you see in these autocratic countries.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And so when you see with USAID and you see Elon Musk, I've seen a lot of these kind of right-wing people on Twitter go, Isn't it everything that they're afraid because we found the fraud. We found the fraud and the illegal activity and they are mad that we discovered all the illicit activity that they are doing at the treasury department, at the this department, at the that department.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
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They make up a lie and then they use that as a predicate to then go after those organizations and to bleed them dry when they are the ones actually engaging in likely illicit behavior.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
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they deflect with that, that becomes the pseudo truth that gets uplifted first on social media, then it flows to Fox, it's repeated on Fox, and then it just becomes the kind of MAGA truth that they think is the truth. There was this Politico story yesterday that was one of the things going on that was saying like, oh, look, USAID paid Politico.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
all this money over these years and they're using it to bribe politico and and it was just complete and total bs they were paying for like a politico data service the same way government agencies pay for reuters or associated press or whatever to get access to data to get access to uh research and things like that and it was money that was paid over the course of
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I don't know, like eight years or 10 years or something like that. They turned this into a conspiracy theory that USAID is being used to funnel money to news agencies in order to shift the programming to be anti-Trump. And they somehow acted like Politico is like the most pro-Biden administration, which if you read Politico ever, you know that it's... Absolutely not at all.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And I think they're even owned by a right wing like German conglomerate of Politico. But, you know, the point that I want to make, though, is that they are using Soviet esque justifications in order to destroy these agencies. And And it's just a very devious tactic.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
I'm not honestly sure how you overcome all that other than by building these pro-democracy voices like the Midas Touch Network and others up. And so, I mean, that's our mission right now. We got to combat this just endless flow of stuff. And I'll just add also that we're doing that.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And I want to thank everybody because we're proud to announce that the Midas Touch Podcast on audio platforms right now is the number one news podcast out of any podcast on all of audio on Apple Podcasts. Not only that, when you look at all categories, we are the number two podcast of all podcasts. So that's higher than the New York Times.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
You see, it's higher than Joe Rogan, higher than Tucker Carlson. higher than Megyn Kelly, higher than Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro. So finally, these pro-democracy voices, despite all the manipulation, despite all the finger that they have on the scale here, we are still winning this information war right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
And that's because of you, because while the corporate media wants to think that the pro-democracy community is dead right now, that we are silent, They are dead wrong about that. People are fed up. They don't like what's happening. So if you want to support, by the way, help us get to number one of all podcasts.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 2/6/25
Make sure you go right now also and add the Midas Touch podcast on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify and keep us up the rankings because we need to continue to clap back at this disinformation with the truth. And that's what we're here to do. I know that's what you're going to do, Ben. Ben, you're on mute.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
And he's consistently using the language of an abuser because Donald Trump is an abuser. And so when Donald Trump says about all these countries, they're abusing us and they're treating us unfairly and yada, yada, yada, he's talking about himself. There was no reason to do any of this. There's trade agreements with many of these countries already.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
The reciprocal tariffs, that whole idea is completely 100% fabricated. It's all bullshit. And by the way, shame on the media for parroting this line that these are reciprocal tariffs. There is nothing reciprocal about them at all.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
all that's donald trump's line there's nothing reciprocal about them these are the biggest tariffs i believe in history right now um even bigger than what happened in smoot holly which exacerbated the great depression and that's what donald trump did and he he came up with this um ridiculous formula i guess that it looks like they use chat gpt or something people are saying they use like ai to devise this formula and we'll get into the formula but it has to do with trade deficits but
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
I just want to show you this for a second, because I think just to show the scope of Donald Trump's lies and just how big his lies are with everything. And this is why I get pissed off when I see headlines from reputable news sources that say Trump's reciprocal tariffs, because I'm going to tell you right now.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
the tariffs that Donald Trump claimed are being charged to the US, and the actual average of the tariffs that are being charged to the US in reality. So for example, this is the most egregious example, so I'm going to lead with this. Vietnam. Trump claimed on his little chart, he pulled out this big-ass chart that he walked around with.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
The second he pulled that chart out, markets collapsed in the after hours. He claimed that Vietnam charges a 92% tariff to the United States. You know, the actual average tariff Vietnam charges? It's not 92%, it is 9.5%. A bit of a delta there between those two, between Donald Trump's claim, his justification for his tariffs, and what is actually happening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Canada, Donald Trump claims that Canada has implemented a 48% tariff against the United States. Well...
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
a little off there because the actual number is four percent and you could go down the list of every single country i guess to your point ben except for the afghanistan under the taliban you go through every other country and you could see that donald trump's claims here are completely fraudulent the same way he has committed fraud in his businesses by making up numbers he is quite literally making up the numbers here based on trade deficits which aren't inherently good or bad trade jobs it just means we're buying more stuff from these countries
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
because we have demand for those goods in those countries. So the whole justification for these tariffs are just garbage to begin with. And I just want to make clear how vast the difference is right now between reality, the facts, and what Donald Trump is selling here.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Oh, we have a lot to discuss, so we should dive into it pretty quickly. But first, what's going on, listeners? What's going on, viewers? Great to see everybody here on YouTube Live. Great to be speaking to people who are listening on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure you sign up there, add the show. Man, what a week.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
You know, I think this is going to go down as one of the most consequential weeks. And we actually said prior to the previous episode how important this week was going to be. And I don't even think we realized just how consequential this week was going to be. First, I want to highlight the big wins for democracy. Judge Crawford in Wisconsin.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
of going against the oligarchs, the billionaires, Elon Musk, the MAGA movement put everything into that race and they lost. And I think that should give everybody watching and listening to this a little bit of hope. And it shows that the tide is turning. Even in those Florida special election races where Democrats lost, we saw massive shifts. massive shifts towards democracy in those races.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
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The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,, This time of year, it's time to shake off those winter blues and get ready for a fresh start and that includes your hair. I've been using the iRestore Elite and I've got to say I was skeptical at first, but this thing is legit. I pop it on when I'm watching TV or answering emails, completely hands-free, super comfortable and honestly, kind of relaxing.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
You cannot just write those off. And then, of course, the disastrous Liberation Day announcement by Donald Trump. I'm not sure what I'm being liberated from other than, I guess, the money in my bank account, liberated from the sanity, the competence that we used to have. That's the only thing that I am seeing that we are liberated from. But let's dig right into it. Jordy, how you doing, man?
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Over time, I started noticing less shedding and more regrowth, especially around my temples where I noticed a little bit of thinning. I've tried other LED devices before, but none of them felt this effortless or gave me these kinds of results. The iRestore Elite is in a league of its own with 282 lasers and LEDs that deliver light therapy right to your scalp.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
It's like a spa day for your hair follicles. So give yourself the gift of hair confidence this spring. For a limited time only, our listeners get $625 off their iRestore Elite when you use code MIDAS at iRestoreLaser.com. That's $625 off your iRestore Elite at iRestoreLaser.com with promo code MIDAS, M-E-I-D-A-S. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Hair loss is frustrating.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
You don't have to fight it alone. Thanks to iRestore.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Well, I'll just say this. I think one of the reasons why this network resonates with folks and why this community is so important is that we're not following the political winds, right? The political winds are going to shift. That doesn't mean you shift your values to try to sort of time the market to, so to speak, right? We all have our values. We know what's right. We know what's wrong.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
is very wrong and it is just what we're a few months now into donald trump's disastrous administration and we are already seeing a seismic shift so i think a lot of these people who have been leaning into like maga talking point trying to shift to the right also i think they're going to have a lot of egg on their face you know if they don't already because people are going to be sick of this stuff so quickly how do i know well because they already are sick of this stuff
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
And like I said earlier, this stuff is always very cyclical, right? There's a cyclical power at play where people vote one way, they go, oh shit, we shouldn't have done that. Vote the other way, go, oh shit, this maybe could be better. And then vote the other way. And it just ping pongs back and forth. Now we're seeing a shift though right now that's quicker than we've ever seen before.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
And so first I want to highlight Judge Susan Crawford in Wisconsin. Judge Susan Crawford, she defeated the MAGA judge candidate, Brad Schimel.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
this was a race that maga donald trump elon musk their entire media ecosystem all of their influencers they all went all in on this race elon musk spent like more money than anybody else combined musk was handing out checks to people he literally gave a few people million dollar checks like doing these to me, very obviously illegal schemes in the state to try to influence the election.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
But guess what? It failed. In fact, I think it backfired because there were some Republican initiatives that actually performed better than Brad Schimel did in the race on the same ballot. So I think Elon Musk actually had, if you want to talk about Doge, the most inefficient investments on the
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
moked in this race even worse than he probably would have if elon musk never even stepped foot in that state or spoke about this election once so that's a big deal it's a big deal that in wisconsin we see judge crawford winning it was something like 55.1 to 44.9 something around that those are very very very very sizable margins so now all these sort of illegal gerrymandering tricks that these mega republicans wanted to pull in wisconsin
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
That's over. It could help Democrats in the House coming up. That's a big, big, big deal. This is a big, big, big deal that this happened. And I want to show you, speaking of the political wins, let me show you what that looks like when you lay it out on a map. Here's a map. I'm going to pull it up. I'll just describe it for the folks listening.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
It's a map of the shift in the margins from the 2024 presidential vote in places in Wisconsin compared to the vote just now in this race for Supreme Court in Wisconsin. You could see every one of these blue arrows is shifting. The way they do it is they do blue arrows shifting to the left to show that it's getting more democratic. This is statewide on this map.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
I don't even see a single red arrow shifting all the way to the left. If you look at the election map, this went the complete opposite direction. Now the winds have quickly shifted. And we are seeing the wind shift even in places like Florida, even in deep red districts that went to Trump by like 30 points.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
And I know I got a lot of comments when I was speaking about the Florida elections and we were posting about it where people said, but Brett, we lost. We lost these races. So who cares if the Democrats increased their margins and the MAGA guy didn't do better? Well-
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
you got to think about things a little bit in a brick by brick way things don't just change overnight right and florida over the past many years has become redder and redder and redder and these districts were incredibly red districts to begin with it's the only reason why trump felt comfortable at least at first plucking these people out of their seats to try to give them jobs in their administration
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Well, what was the result of this? Basically, there was about a 20-point shift in Florida towards the Democrats in these Trump districts, districts that Trump won handily by 30 points, districts that the MAGA candidates won handily by, in some cases, even more than that. To see that shift in less than 100 days into Trump is absolutely stunning.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
I think voters out there understand that we are on the wrong track. They understand that they don't like waking up and looking at their 401ks and seeing it just completely crash. They understand that they don't like going to the store and paying more for goods. They don't like fighting with Canada. They don't like all the chaos every single day.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
I wish they knew that a few months ago, but it's clear that they know that now. I think the Democrats are actually set up quite well right now for the midterms in 2026. I think there's going to be a lot of momentum there. I think you could honestly in many ways disregard those sort of approval ratings for the Democrats because I think that also speaks to this –
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
This feeling of weakness and leaders, and we've criticized them plenty, who had not stepped up enough. But what else happened this week? We saw Senator Cory Booker get up there on the Senate floor and speak for 25 hours straight, the longest speech in Senate history, in order to protest. Elon Musk, Doge, and Donald Trump. I think you're seeing the fight out there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
You're seeing the fight now in the halls of Congress. You're seeing the fight out there on the streets. And this weekend, we're going to be highlighting it here. There is a massive mobilization effort across the country. They're calling it the hands-off protest. Mass mobilization this Saturday, April 5th.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Here's going to be my ask to you because there are more than a thousand events planned across the nation on April 5th. And you could Google it. You'll find all the locations. I know Indivisible is a group that's helping to coordinate. I know MoveOn is a group that's helping to coordinate. So you go to their websites, you'll see a list of where all the events are if you want to join this.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Over a hundred organizations are supporting these efforts. There are going to be thousands and thousands and thousands of people on the streets this weekend to protest this Trump regime. Here's what I want you to do. I'm going to give you some homework. When you're at these events, Take pictures, take video, post it on social media. Don't rely on like, oh, there's so many people out there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
The mainstream media will probably cover this. The corporate media will probably cover this. The one thing we learned about building Midas Touch Sometimes you got to build Midas Touch. Sometimes you got to build. Sometimes you got to take things into your own hands if you don't see things going the way that you want it to. So you all are going to be out there.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
I know a lot of you are going to be at the protests. If you are there, take pictures, post them on social media, tag us, send them to us. We're here to uplift everything you do, and we're going to try to figure out some other creative ways to cover these events as well. This is important. We predicted here at the Midas Touch Network a democracy summer.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Well, it looks like a democracy spring is already upon us. And this is just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And I'm so honestly proud of everybody out there for putting in the work, for remaining in this fight. I got to say, by just you listening to the show, shows that you are still in this fight, that you have not been defeated.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
Trump thought he was going to defeat us, but I'm telling you, in these past few weeks, the political winds have shifted. He has lost control. His administration has completely lost control. They are flailing. Fox News is flailing. This community is leading, and you are leading.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
And I think that's why when you look at these charts, you see Midas Touch right here is the fastest growing political or political adjacent YouTube channel by net new subscribers in Q1 of 2025. We saw this data earlier today. This is kind of unheard of.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
in the digital space this has been unheard of for years and years maybe ever this is the first time that we are seeing creators who are pro-democracy breaking through at this level because you guys are all in this fight and when you look at this we see a lot of friends here right we see midas touch we see dave packman we see adam mochler our gen z contributor right there at the top they're defeating the likes of the uh megan kelly's the candace owens the you name it i could go through all the list of these magazines
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
that's a testament to you and your power so let's continue this fight let's keep it strong shout out to all of our international supporters as well we're so grateful for you and we stand in solidarity with you elbows up to canada shout out to all of our followers in greenland and the eu everywhere across the world australia sorry shout out to the penguins
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
shout out to the penguins and the mcdonald islands who come tariffed and uh and uh you know hang hang in there penguins you know some people are uh some people say that donald trump just saw the word mcdonald's uh they're saying that he saw the word mcdonald's got excited and threw a tariff on on the mcdonald islands i don't know if there's any truth to that but i'm just saying it's it's there are dumber things he's done
The MeidasTouch Podcast
MeidasTouch Full Podcast - 4/4/25
evil manipulative thing that they're doing i don't know how you could watch that and not understand that it's pure propaganda and that they're lying to your face and watch it day after day after day and just accept what these people are saying as facts I mean, there's nothing truthful at all about any of what Donald Trump is doing here.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
Hey, everyone. It's Alison Brett. If you're loving the prosecutors, you need to check out the new podcast, Killer Minds, hosted by licensed forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and Crime House's Vanessa Richardson.
The Prosecutors
Killer Minds
Each episode of Killer Minds features a deep dive into the psychology of a notorious murderer, from infamous serial killers to ruthless cult leaders, deadly exes, and terrifying spree killers.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my epic co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So then there's Jesse Miskelly. Like Jason and Damien, Jesse was a kid from a broken home. His challenges included a mild intellectual disability. He was a high school dropout, and Jesse was known to be generally kind but prone to violent outbursts throughout his life. He was an aspiring professional wrestler. Rassler, I guess I should say.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And Jesse did odd jobs to make ends meet and to support his dad and his dad's sort of many different live-in girlfriends that cycled through the house. And he was known to both Jason and Damien, though to what extent they hung out is hard to say. You know, we talk about how these cases, they all have similarities. The same thing that sort of plagued the Adnan Saeed case, the
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
How close are Adnan and Jay? Why would Adnan and Jay be together? There's a similar theme throughout this case. Damien and Jason are obviously friends. They are best friends, and there's no one who doubts that. But the extent to which Jesse, the third member of this trio, was a friend is disputed. We're going to talk about this a lot.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
We're going to talk about a lot of different times they hung out, how they got to know each other, everything else. But just know that is one of those questions that remains, sort of hangs over Jesse. And in fact, Damien would later deny they were friends, explaining in only the way that Damien can. Damien, as you will see throughout this, does himself no favors.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And this is just another example of him sort of popping off. But he says, hey, didn't like him. Jason Baldwin, on the other hand... would refer to Damien and Jesse as his two best friends in a 2012 interview. Whether that is colored by the struggle they went through together is hard to say.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I also learned, and this is probably the most important fact about Jesse, is that he was an Alabama fan, or at least a bandwagon fan. When he was arrested, he had an Alabama flag hanging over his bed. Now, this was 1993, and Alabama, as it is often want to do, had just won the national championship, so it's possible he's just glomming on to that.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
But nevertheless, I'm going to give Jesse credit for being an Alabama fan. Then there's Dominique Teer. Dominique Teer is Damien's girlfriend. During the run-up to the trial, was very pregnant with his child, would eventually have that child. Take the baby to trial. The original Paradise Lost is like a fever dream. It is one of the strangest things you will ever watch.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
It is like some bizarre time capsule, not only to a different time, but to a different world. Yeah, weird 90s.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Have you gotten to the part where the guy asks one of the mothers if she's thought about killing herself yet? Have you gotten to the part where they're shooting the pumpkins? Have you gotten to the part where they lock the forest on fire?
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Yeah, so for those of you who are joining us for the first time for this coverage, I do want to note, typically when we do these long series, we start off with a little bit more introduction. So if you just want to dive right in, you might want to skip ahead a few minutes. But this is a case that obviously is huge. It's one of the first true crime cases. It happened.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And what's interesting about it, one thing, if you've seen the staircase, the staircase is similar, but it fails at what it sets out to do. Because initially the staircase wants to have that sort of access with both sides. And initially it gets a little bit of it. If you've seen the staircase in the earliest episodes, there's interaction with the prosecution.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
But the prosecution very quickly figured out that the staircase guys weren't on their side. Now, whether you believe this story or not, the HBO documentarians who went down to West Memphis to film this documentary claimed that they went in. I mean, I wouldn't even say they were neutral.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
They went in assuming everyone was guilty and they were filming this documentary about this horrible thing that happened, this terrible murder, these murders of these three young boys, this death of innocence type thing, and then eventually came to believe that the West Memphis three were innocent. Whatever the case, they had unprecedented access to both sides.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So you see the prosecutors speaking to the family about the strength of their case, particularly during one pivotal moment. You see the judge is giving interviews, the defense attorneys discussing with their clients various things. You see all that. It's a fascinating case and a fascinating documentary. It's worth watching. As they go on, they get worse, frankly. I mean, the first one is amazing.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
The second one is a complete disaster. The third one is better. It is a very interesting work. And if you haven't seen it and you're a fan of true crime, you need to watch it. The one thing I will warn you, both the first and the third episode are very liberal. And this is true of West of Memphis, too. in using photographs and videos of the children dead, their dead nude bodies.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I mean, it is shocking how cavalier both documentaries were about doing that.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
At least skip the first five minutes.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
It comes up more, but you can avoid it somewhat if you don't watch the first five minutes, which are the crime scene video. So it's literally a police officer walking around with a video camera, and the bodies of the children are just on the side of this ditch bank where they're going to be found, as we're going to discuss. So that's Dominique Teer.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
She becomes a character just like everybody else in this case and may or may not have a bigger role in the case, depending on who you believe. Moving on from the West Memphis Three and Dominique to the victims in this case. Stevie Branch. Stevie was the son of Pam Hobbs and his stepfather, Terry Hobbs. Stevie loved to sing and pretend he was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Kicked off true crime for a lot of people. A lot of people who are huge true crime fans now grew up with the Paradise Lost documentaries. And that's how they got into this.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
He was also a ladies' man who considered Michael Moore's older sister, Dawn, to be his girlfriend. And he was a big brother to his sister, Amanda.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
i think the world when this happened because it was truly watching innocence disappear before our eyes when they were murdered and for me and i've talked about this before my sort of love of true crime came from a love of mysteries and i'd read books about mysteries and watch documentaries and sort of ran out of those and someone suggested paradise lost
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So Paradise Lost and In Cold Blood by Truman Capote were sort of my introduction to true crime. And so I watched these documentaries back 10 years ago. And obviously this was shocking, but watching it now and diving into this case now, and we talk about this all the time, but it's just true. Like it really hits different now that I have a little boy and a little girl. It really hits different.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And everything about those opening scenes are just They're tough. And we don't normally give trigger warnings because we figure you're coming to true crime. But this case has a lot of difficult stuff. And we're going to talk about a lot of it. And just the horrific things that were done. These sweet eight year old kids can never be forgotten.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So Brian Ridge is a pretty big deal and he's there for a lot of things. We're gonna tell the story of the finding of the bodies and I can imagine it was probably something that haunted him for the rest of his life. So then there's Sergeant Mike Allen. He was also one of the detectives on the case and he was present when the bodies were found and he helped pull the bodies from the creek.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
These bodies were essentially found underwater. They had been hidden in the creek, in the middle of this tiny little patch of woods that wasn't very big at all. And these detectives who were looking for them, the kids were missing at the time, are finding them in the water. Then there's Detective Bill Durham. He comes up a lot.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
He was one of the detectives on the case, and he was the polygraph administrator for the West Memphis Police. So he gave dozens of people polygraphs, and his polygraphs will be important and will be contested later in the case. Gary Gitchell. He is the head of the West Memphis Detective Division and the lead on the case.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
This essentially was the last case in a very distinguished career for Detective Gitchell, and he was committed to solving this case, and he is the person who would extract the confession from Jesse Miskelly, and he would retire as a West Memphis detective after both trials were complete. Then there's John Fogelman. He is the lead prosecutor in the West Memphis Three.
The Prosecutors
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You get to know him well when you watch the documentaries. And he is assisted by Brent Davis. Davis would actually remain in the prosecutor's office for much longer. Fogelman would very shortly after this go on to be elected to be a judge and was a very successful and distinguished judge for a very long time. Davis would remain in the office and would defend these convictions. And that was his job.
The Prosecutors
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with Fogelman having gone on. Fogelman is an interesting guy. He's been in West Memphis for forever. His family was this sort of legendary family. There is the second most famous, I don't know, it depends on what kind of history nerd you are. Are you a true crime history nerd or a history history nerd?
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
The most famous thing that happened in West Memphis before this, definitely, was the sinking of the Sultana. It was a large riverboat towards the end of the Civil War, or after the end of the Civil War, It was transporting a large number of former Union prisoners of war up from New Orleans.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
They were going home to various places in the North and it caught fire in what is the deadliest maritime disaster in the history of the United States. Thousands of people died. Horrific thing. Fogelman's, the reason I'm telling the story, Fogelman's great, great, great grandfather was the dock manager for West Memphis. And so he was responsible for saving Fogelman.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Some of the people who were saved, the several hundred people who were saved, obviously they couldn't save everyone or even most of the people there. So he actually, if you're watching the documentary and when they show Fogelman's office, you will see a picture of the sultana over his shoulder because he had it framed and on his wall.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So that's the second most famous thing that ever happened in West Memphis before this occurred. And a Fogelman was involved.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And just to give you some idea, the Adnan Syed case with 14 episodes was the longest series we've ever done. The outline in this case is twice as long as the Adnan Syed case. So we're going to be here for a while.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I do want to say, you know, I've thought about this a lot because I know there are some of you who are very excited and some of you who are not excited at all and are very sad that we're going to be covering this until, I don't know, October. But one thing we're going to do is every now and then we're going to have episodes on Wednesday that are unrelated to this. We are not rushing through this.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
We're going to take our time. This is going to be a very in-depth review of this case. And so every now and then we're just going to drop random episodes on some other case. So for those of you who don't want to wait or want to wait till the end or don't want to hear this, there will be some breadcrumbs along the way. And then always there's legal briefs so you can listen to that as well.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And we were sort of at that point when I was a young kid and I can remember I was from the more middle class neighborhood. And then I had a whole lot of friends who were from the trailer parks around our school. And the school was sort of the center of the community. So on one side of the school, there were these sort of a little bit better off people.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And then on the other side of the school, there were the people who were really kind of struggling and this kind of stuff, just sort of like groups of kids, uh, Wandering around because there was nothing to do. Right.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I mean, there's nothing to do in this town other than wander around and kids getting in fights and watching one kid beat up another kid was just sort of the kind of thing that happened. So this is an incident, though. It's one of the first incidents where you see the three of them together when some sort of violence is occurring.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
How you define together is going to depend on how you read the reports. Some of the reports put them pretty close together. Others put them at quite a distance. But nevertheless, all of these people sort of knew each other, hung out with each other, and there was violence in their lives all the time. It was something that just they were a part of.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Okay, so let's fast forward to March 3rd, 1992. We're now about a year and a couple months away from the murder. This is the day that Damien and Deanne Holcomb will break up. Sometime after the breakup, Deanne begins dating a boy named Shane Divulbis. Damien became obsessive. Obsessed with her, obsessed with this relationship. And she threatened to kill Shane and his whole family.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
One day at school, Damien came up behind him and jumped on his back. When Shane fell to the floor, Damien tried to claw his eyes out with his fingernails, which he had kept filed to what were described as one and a half inch points. So like claws. And he is clawing at this kid's eyes, trying to claw his eyes out. And I don't think there's any dispute that that's what he was trying to do.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Some other kids immediately jump on him and pull him off the boy. Divobus would describe Echoes as having a commanding figure and control over his friends. He would say that he could look at his friends and immediately silence them. He had this presence. that other kids might not have had. Obviously, Shane is not a big fan of Damien because he tried to claw his eyes out.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So take what he says with a grain of salt. But nevertheless, this is an incident where Damien is exhibiting some pretty... hardcore violence and a willingness to really hurt somebody if given the opportunity. It doesn't stop there. On March 6th, only three days later, Damien tells Deanne that he is going to kill her boyfriend, dump him in her front yard, and burn down her house.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Her mom, wisely, calls the police, and Damien is charged with terroristic threatening, though it doesn't seem that anything came of it. This is also not unusual because You know, he is a juvenile at this point. There's just a lot of stuff that happens.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Unfortunately, at this time in particular, a lot of sort of domestic violence, these kind of incidents, the police tended to arrest you, let you go. And that was the end of it. And it seems like that's what happened here. Now, despite all of this, Damien and Deanne got back together. So love conquered all. And she decided she was going to go back with Damien.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Yeah. So for those of you who either don't know about this case or you want to do more, we have read, reviewed so much stuff. We'll be throwing stuff out. Obviously, they're the original documentaries, the three part series of Paradise Lost. There's West of Memphis, which came out afterwards. Those are all very pro West Memphis three.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And look, I mean, this may seem like we're trying to demonize these people who are later going to be accused of this murder, but that's not what we're doing. We talk about victimology a lot. And that's when you look at the victims and you try and figure out sort of what are the things in their life that would be risk factors that would put them in a position to
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
where predators could take advantage of them, that sort of thing. And it's a very important thing to do. But as important as that is looking at the profile of the kind of person who would do something like this. And one of the things that you often hear from people who defend the West Memphis Three is, Why would they do that? These are teenagers. They're just normal kids.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
The only reason the police focused on them is because they wore black and listen to Metallica and Johnny Cash wore black and he never murdered three kids. And that's that is a myth. There's a lot of lore in this case, and that's part of it. then that's why these people were targeted. It's not.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Damien was targeted because he had a lot of violent tendencies and he came from a broken home, the kind of place that you might have a lot of anger build up that would explode at some point. And you can see how broken Damien's home is. And it's only going to get worse.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I just want to point out, because this case, like all the cases, all the famous cases we do, man, is there just a lot of BS out there about it. And one of the things that's out there is that it's just so weird that Jerry Driver's just so obsessed with the cult and he's just so obsessed with Damien. And why do these people think all this devil worship was going on?
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And if you don't know who those people are, we're going to explain in a second. Tons of books on this case, which we have read. Blood of Innocence is a fantastic book that people don't read enough. It's out of print, but you can get a used copy. I advise you do that. Probably the most unbiased view of this case is in that book.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And it's funny because you read it and you're like, oh, because Damien, whether he's just messing with them, which I think is. 80% likely or whether or not some of this is true. He is egging this on, you know, he's feeding this to driver.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
He's probably just pulling his chain, but he's telling them this elaborate story that confirms all the things he's worried about and says, Hey, Oh, by the way, if there's a sacrifice, they're moving towards the sacrifice. And it's just, it's so ironic that, This is going to come back to bite him in a huge way later on. And Driver is often described. He's like this rube. He's this moron, whatever.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I mean, maybe he is, but he's certainly going based on what this person is telling him and has some concerns that what this kid is telling him may or may not be true. We're going to talk a lot more later. about the satanic panic later on and why this is something that Driver would give some credence to other than just, you know, he lives in Arkansas.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So, of course, he's like some uneducated hillbilly. There was a lot of stuff going on in the 80s and 90s, which informs all of this.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And this is not going to be the last time that Damien trolls the police. I mean, I think he's trolling. I mean, it's up to you. You can decide. Is he trolling them or is he telling the truth? I will say this. There are a lot of people doing weird things in West Memphis. You're going to see that as we go on. So maybe some of this is true. One of them was Damien. He was doing some weird stuff too.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
But I think most of this is probably trolling. But he's going to keep doing this even after the murders. He's going to be telling the police things about sacrifices. He's going to, for instance, just to give you a little spoiler, at some point he's going to tell the police, well, if it's a sacrifice, you should look and see if there's wax.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Because if there's, there would be candles and they'd be burning wax. And wouldn't you know it, they find wax on one of the boys. And it's like, dude, what are you doing? But you're going to see this again and again. Okay, we got a little bit more and then we're going to go ahead and stop for this, the first of 28 episodes on this case or however many it's going to take.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
We should. We're going to finish 1992. That's what we're going to do. Next episode, we'll start with 1993. So May 27th, 1992, the divorce between the Echols is finalized and Jack moves out. June 1st, 1992, Damien is admitted to Charter, a mental health facility affiliated with the East Arkansas Regional Medical Health Center, where he is administered antidepressant medication.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
The Devil's Knot, also an excellent book written from the perspective of the West Memphis Three, the convicted. As far as podcasts, everyone has covered this case. I'll just name a few. There are very few pro-guilt podcasts. There's Gary Meese, who also wrote a book called The Case Against the West Memphis Three. That book is great. I would advise you just to read the book.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
This is part of his sort of the consequences for when he ran away with Deanna and the charges against him. One of the things he had to do is he had to go to this facility. He's released on June 25th when his family decides to move to Oregon. And it's sort of said that one of the conditions was fine. You can be released if you're going to leave the state. He's going to Oregon.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Damien describes fighting at school as a release. This is what he tells the doctors and the psychiatrists here at this facility. He describes fighting at school as a release. He says he only has one friend. Presumably that is Jason Baldwin. He describes a friend as someone who will die for you.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
There are allegations that he chased a younger child with an axe and attempted to set his house on fire, but Damien denies this, though he was known to attempt to set fires at the school. He does admit to trying to claw Shane Divelbiss' eyes out at his school, so that is not disputed. He absolutely tried to do that.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
He also admits getting suspended for, once again, trying to set the school on fire. If you're trying to set the school on fire, usually you get suspended for that. Damien takes the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory Clinical Report. The report states that his score on the test... is associated with severe emotional disturbance.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Individuals with this profile type often give evidence of a schizophrenic thought disorder and paranoid mentation. So what the doctors are finding out about Damien while he's at this hospital are not great. And they're the kind of things that would lead you to be concerned about his future behavior. On June 8th, 1992, he takes an IQ test. He scores a 101, which is almost perfectly average.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
100 is average. This evaluation includes one of the most negative lines I have ever seen in any evaluation. I'm just going to read it to you. He appears to have weak imaginative resources and is lacking aliveness in productive energy for his life. So if some psychiatrist out there, is aliveness a measure that you use? And what is the scale that you guys measure aliveness on?
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Apparently, he is lacking aliveness.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And then as far as podcast, the most in the middle, I think, is probably True Crime Garage, though they didn't really do a deep dive on the case. And then you have Crime Weekly, who I think could properly be described as in the camp of the West Memphis Three. You're going to understand this as we go through this. This is a very divisive case and there are definitely camps.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I know we said we're going to go to 1993, but I want to leave you with the next entry because I think the next entry is an interesting one. We'll leave you with this one until next week. You can think about this over the next week. So on January 5th, 1993, the mental health center reopens Damien's case. So he's in and out of these mental health centers.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And Damien is interviewed by a psychologist and he says that all his problems started when his parents divorced when he was eight. Remember, that was a crushing moment for him. During one interview, Damien talks about how he has no power in his life and he has no control over his life either.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And then Bob Ruff, Truth and Justice, has done probably the longest podcast.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And this is one reason he's becoming more and more involved in magic, though he denies that he's a Satanist. Though he does say, and this is a quote that will follow him around for the rest of his life. He says that when he dies, he, quotes, wants to go where the monsters go. He says that the world is divided into sheep and wolves and that wolves eat the sheep.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And he says that he pretty much hates the human race. So that's where Damien Echols is as 1993 begins.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
podcast on this from the perspective of the convicted and their innocence you can listen to that as well we are going to try and give you an unbiased view of this case which frankly i don't think there has been an unbiased deep dive of this case everybody starts from a position we are not doing that we are going to try and lay this out for you
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
It's going to be a lot of episodes. Now, look, I mean, actually, that did go pretty fast. So maybe this is going to go faster. I don't know. We're going to slow down as we go.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
But I'm going to say that, like I said, we're going to take as long as this takes. We're not going to rush through this. This case is one of the biggest cases. It's a case that I'm fascinated with. So don't worry about it. We're not going to get bored with this case. You may get bored with this case. We're not going to get bored with this case.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And we're going to give you everything we got on this one. So you're going to come. I'll say this. You're going to come out of this. Almost doesn't matter who you are. There are probably some of you who will prove me wrong on this. You're going to come out of this having learned something about this case you didn't know. No matter how much you know, you're going to learn something.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
If you're brand new to this case or if you've only seen the documentaries, you're going to learn a lot. But I'm really excited to do this case and excited to do it with you, Alice.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So this has been our first episode. We know you already have thoughts. Shoot us an email, prosecutorspod at gmail.com, at prosecutorspod for all your social media. The gallery will be, the whole place may have burned down by now. So join the gallery, discuss this case. We'll be posting about it on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok. We'll be everywhere.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
If you want to see these episodes early and ad-free, and if you want to be here while we record them, but if you're listening to this live, or when it drops. You've already missed a bunch, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say these recordings are still going. So join Patreon. You can watch us record these, and worst case, you can hear them early and ad-free.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
All right, Alice, before we sign off for this week, is there anything else you want to add?
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
I'm going to say one more thing. This is going to sound a little weird, but I don't want it to. We have talked about the images of the children, the videos. There are a lot of autopsy images available as well out there, but I know there are people who have more of them. We have an expert who's looking at the autopsy reports in this case and is looking at the available photographs.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Obviously, that expert will be able to do a better job if they have more photographs. If you're one of those people, Hello, Reddit, who has these photographs. If you can send them to me, I will not share them with anyone except the expert. So that person can apply their expertise to the autopsies and the photos. I know that's a weird request.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
But I can tell just having read a lot of stuff about this case that there are people who have those photographs. So if you're one of those people, shoot us an email, prosecutorspod at gmail.com. I promise you they will not go anywhere other than our expert.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And there are a lot of them. You got to be careful because there are a lot of them that are available and they are gruesome. So just remember that. Yeah. All right. Well, you guys, we're looking forward to doing the rest of this case with you. We will be back next week with part two. But until then, I'm Brett. And I'm Alice. And we are the prosecutors.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Boy Kills Girl. We probably will get to the conclusion in about August, so you've got plenty of time.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So we don't know how this is going to go today. I guess not.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
The last thing I'll say, this case more than any has all of the original stuff. You can listen to the trials. You can read the trial transcript. There's a website called Callahan. You can read it all. Very well organized. All the original stuff. Great resource.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So as we often do in these long cases, we're going to start off with a synopsis and then we're going to talk about some of the people involved. There's a lot of names. There's a lot of characters. So one of the reasons it's going to take so long to cover this. The other thing we're going to do, we're not going to treat this as if you know this case.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Even though many of you do, there are some of you who don't. And so we're going to go through this like we do any other case. And when we finish doing that, which is going to take a lot of episodes, then we're going to go into depth about some of the most important things that happened in this case, the most important subjects. So will there be a little bit of repetition?
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Yes, but I think it's going to be worth it. And I think you'll see that. The other thing I will just ask you, this is such a huge case. If you think we're missing something or skipping something, let us know. Shoot us an email. We're going to be doing this for a while. So there's going to be a little bit of live development as this goes.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
There's always things that we think, man, that's not important. Now, who cares about that? And then somebody be like, this is the most important thing. Let us know. We'll have plenty of time to cover it with that. I think that's enough build up. Are you ready to dive in? Alice, let's go.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And then we'll just stop the podcast when this is done. So, OK, so the afternoon of Wednesday, May 5th, 1993, started out like any late spring day in the town of West Memphis, Arkansas. Stevie Branch, Michael Moore, and Christopher Byers finished school at Weaver Elementary School and raced home to enjoy the afternoon. For Michael and Christopher, it was a short race.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Weaver Elementary was a one-minute walk from Michael's house and his backyard essentially backed up to the school. Christopher Byers actually lived across the street from him, so they lived very close to each other.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
stevie branch the other friend lived a few blocks away the neighborhood itself was sort of lower to solidly middle class it was a neighborhood of clean well-kept houses the occasional backyard pool and groups of children riding bikes through the neighborhood streets and playing in spacious front yards that was something you would see anytime
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And I will just go ahead and tell you, one of the reasons that this case, I find this case so interesting, is I'm not from Arkansas. I'm from Alabama. But I grew up in a town not unlike West Memphis, in a situation not unlike these boys. I was right in between their ages. In 1993, I was 12. So I was older than the boys who were killed and younger than the boys who would eventually be convicted.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
But I feel like I know sort of the dynamic of this neighborhood. really well. And in many ways, this was the typical Southern town of hardworking people raising families with the expectation that nothing truly bad could ever happen.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors... On May 5th, 1993, in West Memphis, Arkansas, three eight-year-old boys were brutally murdered. Three teenagers were convicted for the crime, but the question remains, did they do it? This is the case of the West Memphis Three. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
So on that day, as the sun began to set, Stevie, Michael, and Chris would ride their bikes into that forest called Robin Hood Hills by the locals. They'd leave their bikes at the pipe bridge and go deeper into the woods to Turtle Hill in a place the kids called Devil's Den.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
There were rumors of satanic rituals in the woods, and although neighborhood children are forbidden from going there, they simply could not resist it. Michael bragged of having a secret hideout in the woods behind Mayfair, and if the boys had been there once, they'd been there a hundred times. But that day, something else waited in the forest, something evil.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
And whether that evil came in the form of one person or three, it would take the lives of the three boys in one of the most infamous crimes in American history— Following an investigation, the police would focus in on three teenagers, Jesse Miskelly, Jason Baldwin, and the boy they thought was the leader of the group, Damian Echols.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Jesse would eventually confess, and following two trials, all three were convicted of the murders. But in the decades that followed, many people began to doubt the guilt of the teenagers who came to be known as the West Memphis Three. And despite being released after entering an Alford plea, The question remains who killed Stevie, Michael, and Chris.
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
Guys, we want to talk about one of our favorite podcasts and one of our favorite creators, Crossing the Line with M. William Phelps. You know him as the New York Times bestselling author of 46 books. He's an investigative journalist and winner of the Excellence in Investigative Journalism Award from the Society of Professional Journalists. If there's one thing we need more of,
The Prosecutors
299. The West Memphis Three Part 1 of ? -- The Unforgiven
In true crime, it's people who actually understand how to research and chase a story, and he has absolutely done that. In fact, he consulted on the first season of the hit Showtime cable television series, Dexter. And he is the executive producer, writer, and co-host of the number one Apple true crime podcast franchise, Paper Ghosts.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
The police show up and they take her to Goulburn Hospital, where she is placed under psychiatric care. Because at this point, nobody even knows who she is.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And when I say in-depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
So, when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Homes.com. We've done your homework. So, you know, she's made it back home because she stole a car. It's now August 31st. Mitchell, who didn't steal a car, he arrives home on that day, which is a Wednesday.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
He had taken a series of trains and eventually called an overnight train home from Michigan. So he had a little bit more of an adventure getting home. He shows up. He tells the police what he knows. He tells the police where his parents were heading. Ella is able to tell them the last place they were, which is this gentleman caves. So the local police are informed that we have these two people.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
You know, I got to say, and I've mentioned this before on the podcast. Heads Carolina, Tails California, that song. I have just deep inside of me this desire to just start driving. I'll drive by the Greyhound bus station every now and then, and I'm just like, I wonder if I just went in there and said, give me a ticket to a random place and just got on the bus and went.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
We don't know what's going on, but they're in your area and they're looking for Mark and Jacoba, but they did not find them. And in fact, the pair had already left and they had headed back over the Victorian border and into a town called Wangaratta. So in Wangaratta, they decide to do what everybody else in the family is doing. They're splitting up. I guess it'll make it harder to be tracked.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
So Jacoba goes her way and Mark goes his. Jacoba jumps on a train. She's on public transportation and she's headed north towards a town called Yas. And later that night, a couple in Wangaratta will report a bizarre incident. So this is how they described it. They were tailgated by a man in a silver Pugio station wagon, which is the vehicle that the Trumps had been driving.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
When they pulled over, so they're being tailgated, so they decide they're going to pull over. They pull over. The driver gets out of the car and runs towards them like a madman before stopping in the middle of the road. He then just stares at them for what I assume must have felt like for forever before turning around and just walking into a nearby park, Meriwild Park.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And this is believed by everyone to be Mark Meriwild. The same evening, there are a series of break-ins in the area. It's never been confirmed, but many people attribute these break-ins to Mark Trump. And that is the situation that we're in at this point. Jacoba is heading north. Mark, his behavior has now reached a level that is so bizarre, no one can really classify it.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
If this happened in the United States, at least half these people would be dead.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Because we've seen cases like this where people do things like this, right? I mean, we've done several cases where mental illness is believed to play a part that end in murder or suspected murder or disappearances that everybody thinks is probably...
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
a murder but in this case and i mean they got plenty of murderers in australia there's some great murder cases out of australia but alice is right everybody is going out of their way to help these people who are really exhibiting some mental illness that might make a lot of people say you know what i don't know why this woman is wandering around town but i am not going to get involved that's not what happens here they're helping out and getting these people where they need to be
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
This was more attractive before I had kids, but even now, I mean, even, you know, sometimes, sometimes it's more attractive now, but just this desire to just strike off and into the distance just to see what comes and leave everything behind. I think everybody has that desire deep down inside of them somewhere.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And it's fascinating because whatever's affecting them, and we're obviously going to spend a good amount of time on theories on this case, but whatever's affecting them is not affecting them all equally. So Mitchell doesn't seem to have been affected at all. Ella is sometimes held out as not been really affected. But as we said, her behavior is very strange to me.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I think she definitely was under the influence of whatever this is and the whole stealing the car thing. But by the time she gets home, it seems like she is now out of it, too. Because her and Mitchell, they're talking to the media. There's no need for her to be hospitalized. No sign that she's under any kind of mental distress.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
To the extent, as Ella said, she's going to be charged with stealing that car later on. But, you know, Rihanna, she's still in that hospital. Mom goes to the hospital and whatever it is, she certainly doesn't break out of it as quickly as Ella did. She has to be moved to the same psychiatric hospital that her daughter is in as well.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I would just note, we find Jacoba on September 1st. What happened on September 2nd? Nobody knows. It's a complete black hole.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I remember when this happened, and the story was sort of developing, and you had this entire family that was missing. And it seemed like this was going to be something terrible and tragic, and who knows exactly what's going on here. And then all of a sudden, they find them all, right? And so they find Mark, and it's like, what in the world is going on?
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And then you have this reaction, and it's just so strange. The next day, Mitchell and Ella, who are now sort of the face of the family, because they're the only ones acting rationally, They appear in front of the media and they thank the police for finding their father. At the time, they do not provide any details on what happened or why it happened.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And it's not clear, honestly, that they really have any idea. Well, the answer is to those questions. September 5th, the next day, 2016, we have a statement from Mark Trump. So Mark Trump is going to make the following statement. In recent days, my family has been through a difficult period. Very true. Understatement of the century.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
We will soon be reunited together, because remember, we've got a couple people in the hospital, we've got a couple people at the farm. It's unclear where he is and what's happening to him. I hope that we will begin to make sense of our ordeal and return to a normal life.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
I am conscious of the burden these events have placed upon our extended family, friends, and the community resources devoted to our aid. Without reservation, I apologize for the hurt and concern caused by these events. So, so far, lots of nice words, no explanation.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
On behalf of our family, I express our deep gratitude to Victoria and New South Wales Police, as well as the healthcare professionals who have looked after our physical and mental well-being. More than anything, my family and I need time to recover and receive appropriate assistance, including mental health services. To this end, we request the media organizations respect our request for privacy.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
At no point in this statement did he address why the family had fled or what exactly happened over the five or so days that they were missing.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And we are returning to the great country of Australia. It's been a while since we've done Australian case. I think we've only done one, but I could be wrong about that. So looking forward to mispronouncing all the Australian names just drives the Australians crazy. I'm sorry, but Melbourne sounds so much better than Melbourne. Melbourne, it's like you're not finishing the word.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I just want to dwell on this point for a minute because something Alice said I think is really interesting. The fact that, I mean, this whole bizarre thing happens. It had to be terrifying, right? I mean, we've told the story and we've kind of been incredulous throughout. But just imagine what this must have been like for them. You know, they think they're fleeing for their lives.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They, you know, Mitchell, how did they view him? Was he a traitor? You know, was he betraying them? Did they beg him to stay? Did they urge him to go? Ella abandoned her sister.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Ella abandons her sister, who's in a catatonic state, who ends up in a psychiatric ward, who has to climb into the back of a stranger's vehicle. Imagine how badly that could have gone, right? I mean, she literally gets in a van. She literally gets in a white van. Panel van. and survives, right? But yeah, I mean, all this stuff, the terror, the recriminations, the blame.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
I mean, you would think, why did you get us into this? All this other stuff. It seems like it just all went away. You know, you would expect it's now been, like I said, I can't believe it's been this long since 2016, but now it's been nine years and it just seems like nothing really changed. They just all sort of went about their lives.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They just accepted whatever happened and moved on without question.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
The owner of the Odyssey, by the way, did tell the police they did not want to pursue it. Because they heard the story and they were like, don't want to move further with this.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
We will. We will. We'll bring so many children. But this is a case that is famous in Australia. It's famous. I remember when it happened. So it certainly made news over here. But it's one I think you guys are going to enjoy. It is the story of the Trump family. This is the disappearance. You know, we love doing these disappearances of entire families because it's just bizarre that it can happen.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
But this one has a twist on it that makes it even stranger. From the outside looking in, the Trump family were a successful, close-knit bunch.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
mark and jacoba trump that had built a successful earth moving company and a red current farm which i hear are a big deal in asia we don't really have red currents here i feel like we have black or currents depending on how you pronounce it for current but that could be wrong are you a red current fan my i think they're like medicinal properties in the asian culture so my mom brings them by the like bagfuls when she visits me
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
so unusual that ordinarily this would be something i'd put right there with ergot poisoning i would say that's silly well the chances of it being that are so low this is one of those where occam's razor produces a very unusual theory this is like sherlock holmes in the whole once you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And this is what people think. It's called the madness of two, but it can be sort of a shared delusion that any group of incredibly tight-knit people can share. And it's the presence of a similar delusion amongst them. And it's very difficult if you're a doctor looking at it to even determine who it was who was delusional first because they share it so intensely.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
There have been a few famous examples of this in true crime. There's another case we should do at some point.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
and that happened in england we had a couple women who were very clearly suffering from this and did something along these lines and the thing is we have no idea why this happened you know we can't point to the triggering event and the fact that the family has remained so quiet and so just zipped up about this you know and i'm gonna say this and this the biggest people who disagree with me on this but i'm just gonna sound a little callous too but that's fine
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
I feel like the family actually owes some explanation of what happened. I mean, this became a nationwide story in Australia, a worldwide story. A lot of resources were expended for them. A lot of crimes were committed in their name and by them. I kind of feel like they owe the world an explanation. They have never given that explanation. So it's impossible to say exactly why this happened.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And the thing is, while we can't tell you who it stems from, I can tell you who started it. It was Mark. I have no question in my mind about that. And I have more to say about that in a second. But you have Mark and Jacoba who are both demonstrating this paranoia. We know that they were paranoid in the weeks leading up to what happened. They're showing these signs of paranoia.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They have this fear that someone's after them. And as this mental stress is building and they are getting more and more concerned and more and more frightening for their children, it seems as though their children were wrapped up in this as well.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Now, the thing is, it is very difficult for any of us sitting around here to understand how this could happen, particularly how this could happen to the girls, right? And seriously, in the case of Rihanna, Ella was affected as well. But it's hard for us to imagine that. But you really have to put yourself in a totally different situation than you are in.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And, you know, it's easy to imagine how this would happen with little kids. Right. So, you know, if I go downstairs right now and wake my kids up and say, kids, we got to get out of here. There's a danger, you know. there's a dragon in the basement and it's going to come up and eat us.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
If I said that to my kids, they would believe me and they would freak out and they would go wherever I said to go to get away from the dragon.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Yeah. Well, look, they had a whole farm of them. And they lived in a farming community, very connected to the earth. They were very successful. And in fact, they had three children, three adult children, Rihanna, 29, Mitchell, 25, and Ella, 22, who still lived on the farm and worked alongside their parents. And they worked seven days a week at this farm. They were very successful. Beautiful home.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I want to make some assumptions about this family that I don't know to be true, but I think fit with what we're seeing here. I bet this is a very conservative group of people who are much closer to each other than most of us are with our families. Remember, we have, you know, a 29 year old, a 22 year old, I think a 24 year old. who are all still living and working together.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They spent their entire lives on this farm. I have a feeling that Mark is very much the head of this household and that his kids and his wife have always looked to him as the person who knows what to do. You know, I imagine him, I've never seen this show, but I imagine him as like the John Dutton of this group, right? Like from Yellowstone. He is the patriarch, right? And you listen to him.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And when he says there's a problem, you believe it. And I think he starts having this paranoia and his wife is very easily taken in to it. And now you have both people who are convinced that this is going on. And then you have the two young ladies who are also living on that farm who are also wrapped into it. And the one person who isn't is the other male in the group.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
The other sort of, who you'd imagine, if it is sort of a conservative close-knit family, is probably more independent than the two girls. He is the only one who seems to be able to step back from this and say, I don't know what's going on with y'all, but I'm going to go along just to make sure you're okay.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I think this case is important. I mean, it's a fascinating case, and it's a wild case, and it's one of those where you can kind of have a little bit of fun with it because nobody gets hurt, nobody dies. They don't seem to have had really even any, other than embarrassment, any sort of long-term effect of this. They sort of just went back to their lives.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
But I think it is important for those of us in true crime because... Imagine if something had happened. Imagine if they had never been found, or if they had been murdered, or you just found their van and they're all dead around it, right? What would people do? The assumption would be something happened, you know, some great conspiracy or some violence must have happened.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And not just this could have been mental illness. And we have seen this in so many of the cases we've looked at from the very first one we looked at. Elisa Lam died. To the Jameson family, who's a similar case, right? They have sort of this mental illness. They pack up their truck. They drive off into the mountains. Their bodies are found in the mountains a few months later.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And everyone just assumes there must have been some sort of violence here. Like they wouldn't have just gone up there to die. But if these people had gone to a different place, if they had driven 500 miles west instead of north, they had gone off into the outback. They probably would have died. They would have ran out of gas in the middle of the outback and they would have died.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They had horses. I believe it was Rihanna was into jumping, like hunter jumping. So they had like a whole jumping course. They had a bunch of horses. Very successful people. The kids, even though they're working on the farm, they also had these side businesses that they're doing. So just basically seems like they have this perfect place.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And you would have seen something like that happen. And I think it's always important when you have what appear to be hallmarks of mental illness to consider that and consider it seriously. Ray Rivera, a case we covered very early on of a man who unfortunately had a serious mental break and ends up jumping off a building.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And you have people to this day who think he was dropped out of a helicopter or he was hit by a car and then dropped through the roof of this building. And then somebody went down to the roof because he fell from very high up and then through a lower roof and put his cell phone next to the hole.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
I mean, people actually believe that's what happened when, in fact, the simplest answer is the scariest answer. Far more frightening, frankly, than a killer that in his own mind, his mind became the enemy. And that's what caused it to happen. And you see that with this family. This was purely within their own minds. There was no monster.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
It was just their own minds betraying them and sending them on this trip.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
But then, in 2016, Mark and Jacoba, I believe Kobe was her nickname, began to demonstrate some paranoid behavior. And they became convinced that someone was after them. Someone was stalking them. They wanted to steal all their money, maybe even kill them. And they were terrified. And this behavior peaked immediately.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
It's nice to see a case where somebody ran into the right person instead of the wrong person. Because it seems like they so often run into the wrong person. And this time, the right person found them. Well, look, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this case. Shoot us an email, prosecutorspod at gmail.com and prosecutorspod for all your social media. People in the gallery will be discussing this.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Join us there on Facebook. Let us know what you think. If you would like to watch us record these episodes, you can join Patreon. Even if you don't want to watch us record them, you can still get them early and ad-free for as little as $3 a month. Well, Alice, do you have time to answer any questions tonight?
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
There you go. Exactly. Alice is going to do the entire case next time. So y'all make sure you... Log on.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
Okay. Well, we're going to let Alice get back to her children, her lovely children, nurse them back to health. But we will be back next week with a new case. But until then, I'm Brett. And I'm Alice. And we are The Prosser.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
In August 2016, when the family abruptly left on a cash-only, tech-free road trip. Now, this road trip, which began at their home in Sylvan and ended in a place that I'm certainly going to mispronounce, Wangaratta. I think Wangaratta sounds very Australian, but the Australians can correct me on that.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
mean why not let's just go we'll just do a marathon i brought water i have an energy bar i think we can do it okay well let's go okay let's go episode one let's go episode one anyways okay let's all right you ready for serious for serious you're the one Never.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
it spanned five days and nearly a thousand miles along the way the family would split up different people leaving at different times all of them doing things that seemed to defy sense and then they eventually reappeared one by one And even now, nearly nine years later, the general public is no closer to understanding what exactly happened to the Trump family than they were when this occurred.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
This is a wild ride, and I'm looking forward to talking it through with you guys and trying to figure out what exactly was going on with this family.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And if this feels like it starts abruptly, it's because it does. There's no real run up to this. If you look at the stories, look at the interviews, there's just a sort of vague notion that around this time, the parents became very paranoid, like we said. But there's no events. So there's no like three days before there was a strange car in the driveway or someone broke into the house.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
It's literally just events. These people decide to do this. And Mitchell is the only person in this entire story who is just completely sane. And he's like, I don't know about this, guys. This seems really strange. But he was concerned about the rest of his family.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And so he would later say, I just felt like I needed to go with them and see where they were going because they wouldn't tell me where they were going. But he wasn't going to leave his cell phone. He was taking his cell phone with him. It's a little unclear how the parents discovered that he had it. But when they found it, they lost their minds.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And so literally his dad takes his phone and throws it out the window, which is just if Mitchell had any doubts that something had broken in the family, it was confirmed for him at that point.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
But let's be clear here. Mitchell, you know, Mitchell jumps on a train and heads back home, right? The sisters abandoned this trip, but they are not in their right minds. Because what do they do when they decide to abandon this trip? They steal a car. So they just steal a car. They then drive the car to a nearby town called Goulburn. And they do whatever. What do you do when you steal a car?
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
What's the first thing you do? You call the police. So they actually, you know, they drive their stolen car, I guess, to a payphone. And they call the police and say, hey, our parents are missing. Now, at this point. There's some sort of further falling out with the girls because they decide to part ways at this point.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They're at a gas station, probably where they made the call, and they decide they're going to go their separate ways.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And I think this goes to what is a disturbed mental state for these two girls, these two women as well. And I do want to note, you know, we're talking about Australia. Those of us who are not in Australia, we sort of think of Australia as Sydney and I guess Melbourne. Yeah. And then the outback. Right.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
It's true. You've had an effect on me.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
So in the average American's minds, there are a couple of cities in Australia and then just vast desert wilderness that goes on to the sea. Right. Well, nothing we're talking about happens in the outback. This is all in the to whatever extent Australia is a built up country. Right. This is all in it. So they're not like out in the middle of nowhere.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
They're near towns and cities the whole time, but you have this situation where the two girls are going to split up, but it's number one. Why are they splitting up? It'd be the first question. Number two is, they're just abandoning each other, if you think about it. They're in the middle of nowhere. They don't know where they are. Ella takes the car.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
So it's not even like they split up, ditch the car, and both take a bus or something like that. Ella takes the car and just leaves her sister, Rihanna, in this...
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
unfamiliar town with no cell phone no credit cards nothing she just leaves her there and starts driving and apparently I think Ella is the one with the horses apparently she was concerned about her horses so she wants to go feed her horses now who knows what she planned on doing after that but she takes off in the car Rihanna, now left behind, I guess does what you do in this situation.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
You know, she just talked to the police. It seems like the obvious thing to do would be to call the police and say, oh, by the way, when I reported my parents missing, they also abandoned me, so I'm in the middle of nowhere. Help me. She doesn't do that. She's been very successful in breaking into a car, so she breaks into another car.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, a family goes on a road trip and then loses their ever-loving minds. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my wandering co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
She breaks into a utility van, and she climbs into the back of the utility van in this town, closes the door. She doesn't steal the car. She just breaks into the back of it.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
The owner, he comes along, he gets in his utility van, fires her up, starts driving. All of a sudden, he starts feeling kicks to his seat during the drive, which just imagine. potentially in Australia, because who knows what sort of fatal, yeah, poisonous slash vicious animal could be in the back of your car. But he looks back and he sees Rihanna in the back of his vehicle.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And what he described as a catatonic state. He tried to talk to her. She could barely talk at all. And when she did talk, she said she did not know her name. didn't know where she was, didn't know how she ended up in the van. That is her mindset at this time.
The Prosecutors
297. The Tromp Family Mystery -- Waltzing Matilda
And remember, Rihanna is the oldest of the kids. She's 29. So, you know, Ella's 22. And she's like, sorry, I got to go get my horses. And so she does. She leaves her. And who knows what her mental state was. So the driver, who would say to the press that he had quite a shock when he saw her in the back of the car, called the police.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
While he's there, he actually whispers to the photographer, take each of their pictures today. I don't think they're all coming back.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And when I say in-depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, and student-to-teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
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The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
No, it's the feminine version of frio.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
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The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
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The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
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The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
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The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
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The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash prosecutors today. That's rocketmoney.com slash prosecutors. rocketmoney.com slash prosecutors. And yeah, I mean, this is some really tough stuff. Like I don't claim to be in shape at all, but you gotta be in good shape to be able to do this. 13,500 feet.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Like I said, I was skiing. We were at 12,000 feet and, you know, walking up the stairs, I would have to like take a break and rest. Right. Because the air is just thinner, you know, and, and these were experienced people, uh,
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
But as we noted, the doctor is already getting sick and altitude sickness is one of those things that can strike even experienced people, even people who've done this before, even people who are used to it. It can just happen. You know, who knows why you were just a little bit off when you started and your body never quite catches up.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And a lot of times the altitude sickness, particularly if it's bad. The only way to recover is to go down. You can't. It's not like, well, if I stay here long enough, my body will catch up. You just have to go down, and that's really the only thing you can do. And they already have the doctor who's sick, and they're going up and down. I mean, just imagine how much work they're doing.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They're lugging this stuff up 2,000 feet and then coming back down and doing it again, right? This is tough. And by January 27th, it's starting to take its toll. So January 27th, six days later, Defoe and Eubank have decided to head back down the mountain due to altitude sickness. They've got altitude sickness. They're not going to get over it. They have to leave.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Remember, Defoe's the leader of the group. He's out. He's taken off. Eubank. Eubank's the doctor. He was feeling bad in the beginning. He's out. Which means medical knowledge to look at the other people and determine what they're suffering from, what their condition is, gone. It's not just them. Sheldon. He'd returned back to base camp the previous day. Remember, he's the young guy.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
He's the college student at Brigham Young. He's the interpreter. So he's the guy who can speak most fluently with God. The guy speaks some English, but he speaks a lot better Spanish. So you've lost the young guy who you could have relied on to carry stuff. I mean, he's young, he's fit. I mean, these other guys are in their 50s.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
You've lost the leader of the group who put the whole thing together and should be the tie that binds. And you've lost the doctor. They're already gone. But the rest of the group is going to try and make it. So they're going up to camp two. So remember, they got base camp, which is higher than where I was skiing. You know, people, a lot of people go to base camp at Everest and that's their trip.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Like just getting to base camp is an accomplishment. So they're going to head up to camp two. It's nearly 18,000 feet deep. It took seven hours to get there, and the group is down to five of its original members. Right now we have Cooper, Johnson, Petroski, McMillan, and Zeller. So after the trek to Camp 2, Cooper made the following comment in his diary.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Bill Zeller is the real man behind the work. He is the police officer I talked about who is the strong guy who's carrying stuff. He lugged 80 pounds up to camp one. Then after getting back, he made the water haul. And here I am in the sack. I guess we all do our share of work, but some more than others.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Now he's not doing a lot, but that doesn't mean he's not critical of Johnson, our only woman in the group. He writes, Johnson was little help. She is a real loner and appears to be for only one thing, to get herself to the summit at the expense of everyone or on everyone's back.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
So once again, the dynamic of this group, fractured, not friendly, not all in it together, not feeling like we're all pulling together. I mean, even the guide was saying he felt like he was in it for himself. And that's going to become more evident as we continue on this expedition.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Yeah. I mean, I think it's probably the most snow we've had here in, well, certainly in decades. Yeah. I've never seen snow here. Yeah, certainly in decades. I've lived here off and on. Many years. Many years and never seen snow. We told the kids.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And I just want to point out, the guide is the one taking Petroski back. So the one guy who's done this before, the one guy who knows the mountain, he's now gone too. The guy that you would think everybody would look to, right? I mean, you've lost your leader, but maybe just the experience would be enough that he is sort of the de facto leader.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
If he says do it, we're going to do it because he knows what he's doing. He's gone too. So you got these four jokers from America doing something they've never done before in a situation that is really dangerous, trying to make the summit of this mountain.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Enjoy it because you probably won't see it again. But- This is appropriate weather for the case we are talking about today. The Aconcagua mystery. We love mysteries. We love mountains. We love mysteries that happen on mountains. And this one has it all. But... Unlike the other two, you know, we talked about two mountain mysteries, Dyatlov Pass and the Khyber Dabin incident.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And look, if there's one thing we've learned from Dyatlov Pass, it's don't camp on the side of a mountain, right? You know, you've got this situation where the goal is you have Camp 3. the goal is to get from there to the summit. That's what you're trying to do.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And the smart thing, just like when the group and the outlaw pass, you know, they were trying to get from where they had stored all their stuff to the pass now named for the group. The storm hit and rather, and this is what the one survivor said about why did they camp on the side of that mountain? Because Dyatlov didn't want to lose altitude. You know, they'd gained that altitude.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
It had been tough to gain it. So he didn't want to lose it. So he camped there. And whether you think it's an avalanche or a Yeti or a bomb or whatever, that decision is what led to their deaths. The smarter thing, as difficult as it is, and the thing that nobody ever wants to do, would have been to go back down and try again the next day. And that's what they should have done here.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They should have gone back down, spent the night at Camp 3, and then try the summit the next day. Instead, they do this middle ground where they're trying to dig a cave into the side of the mountain. It provides almost no actual shelter. So think about what they're going through. They're at a higher altitude, so they're getting less oxygen.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
You know, they're burning all this energy that they didn't necessarily have trying to keep themselves warm. They're not getting any rest. Cooper's covered in snow. Like the whole thing is a mess, right? But they're going to try and continue on. So the next morning is January 31st, 1973.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And it's morning and Cooper, you know, you can tell from what he was writing in his diary, he was getting increasingly unhappy about this whole thing. He's going to call it. Now, Cooper, you know, it's interesting that he's the one who says, I am done with this. Because Cooper was described by his friends as a bit of a cowboy. He worked for NASA.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
He was one of ground control for all the lunar landings, one of the main guys. People described him as more like an astronaut than a ground control guy because he was just a bold guy, right? He was the kind of guy that climbs mountains. But he is admitting defeat and saying, I'm getting out of here, right? And he decides he's going to go back down to the mountain, back to Camp 3.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
It's about two hours back to Camp 3, and he's like, okay, guys, I'm heading back. None of the remaining members, they don't have any issue with him going, but they also are going to let him go alone. You know, and I think this goes back to the group dynamic, right? A situation, a dangerous mountain, a group of people, they're supposed to all be in this together.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They got a guy who obviously is suffering. He wants to head back down the mountain. And the other three, rather than say, you know what, we'll go with you. Or one of them saying, you know what, I'll go with you and make sure you make it. Or like, all right. See you later. Good luck making it back down the mountain. It's only two hours. I'm sure you'll be fine. That's their position.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And so they send this guy down by himself. So he heads back down by himself. Now the group is down to three members, Zeller, McMillan, and Johnson. So they're trying to make their way up the Polish glacier. They're trying to reach the summit. But by the time they get to a little ridge that is sort of your midpoint, once you get there, you know, you can head right up to the summit.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And I don't think in either one of those, well, I guess Dyatlov Pass, there may be theories about murder, depending on what your theory is. Maybe you think one of the group went crazy. Maybe you think they were killed by the Mansi. Maybe you think they were killed by the Soviets. I don't think any of those are the mainstream theory, though. I could be wrong.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
By the time they get there, once again, it has been such a difficult trip that night has fallen. The snow at this point is waist deep. So they've been taking turns, one person walking in front and sort of cutting a path through the snow and then falling back to the back. And the next person has to cut the path through the snow because it's so grueling to try and do this.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And so resting at this point is not really an option. They've been taking these turns, but it's just they can see it. It's right there. The summit is right there and they want to make it to the top.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And obviously, another thing to remember here is the possible presence of unreliable narrators. Because we have four people left in this group trying to make it to the top. Two of them are never going to come home. The other two are going to make it. And we're hearing from those two what happened. So remember that as we move forward.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
But so, you know, back to the group dynamic and how they're really taking care of each other. They're doing all this thing. They're walking up the snow. And, you know, they see the summit. They're like, okay, we really need to go. We can make it. And the two guys turn around and Janet Johnson's gone. They have no idea where she went. They just know they can't see her.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They have somehow lost her as they are making their way up this mountain. So according to them, they call out to her like, hey, where are you? But they get no response. So they start looking for her to see if they can find her. And they find her axe. They don't find her. So...
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They're going to take this, I guess, as a good sign because it means she's probably nearby, though it's obviously not good that she doesn't have her axe anymore. They start calling out to her again, and they hear a voice that says, My name's Janet Johnson. So they go about 100 feet off the trail, and there she is laying in the snow.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Macmillan would say that when they got to her, she said, Don't make me suffer. Just let me lay here and die, which... Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And then in the other case, I don't think anybody thinks it was murder. But this case, this case is one that a lot of people think might just be a case of murder on the summit of a mountain.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And I got to say, you know, this case is interesting, too, because there's all sorts of questions about the effect. The mountain is a character in this case. I feel like in a way that it wasn't so much. I mean, obviously, in Dyatlov Pass, the elements were very much part of that case and could have been responsible for that case.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
In the Khmer Dabin case, that was like a relatively, it wasn't even that high. It wasn't a tall mountain. So you really didn't feel like that was what was going on. In this case, very much. The mountain is part of it. Even if it's a murder, the mountain is part of it. And I was in Colorado. We took the kids skiing. And there it's like 12,000 feet.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
So meanwhile, he's doing whatever he's doing on the side of the mountain. Zeller and Johnson are making their way down the glacier. And Zeller says that he also began hallucinating. Remember, not a lot of oxygen. Hallucinations are a symptom of severe altitude sickness, hypoxia. Your brain is dying and you're starting to see things, which...
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
which is pretty high, not as high as these folks are going to be. You know, the altitude, it gets to you and it can really affect you. We're going to see that in this case. And it really I think one of two things happened here, either the mountain and the various challenges these people faced killed them or something happened on that mountaintop.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
You think about what was happening to Janet Johnson and why was she saying some of the things she was saying? It may be because she was also, and in fact, almost certainly was in the throes of this same problem. And he would later report seeing construction trucks working near the summit.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
So he's like in his mind, there are, you know, bulldozers and excavators and dump trucks rolling around the top of this mountain, I guess, building a road or something. He's seeing that and he's hearing voices, uh,
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
that are calling out to him and he's hearing rescuers who were not there so he clearly is not in a great place and he's the one responsible for taking janet johnson down this glacier and as he and johnson are making their way down the glacier they also take a fall they go tumbling down and it results in him breaking his glasses and cutting his face some.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
I think he says the same thing happens to Janet. Once again, could be exactly what happened here, but is something, if you were thinking there's foul play here, that is convenient to explain the kind of things you might see in some sort of altercation. You have cuts to your face. Your glasses are broken. How'd that happen? Oh, your buddy's got a black eye. How did all this happen?
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Well, we fell down the mountain. And when we fell down the mountain, this happened. and being mountaineers, they would know these are fairly common injuries. So it is certainly possible, if not likely, that that's exactly what happened, is they both fell down the mountain and this happened.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
But given what we're facing, you have to keep in the back of your mind that this is also very convenient for what we are going to see as they continue to progress down. So he also says that when they fail... You know, he had been tied to Janet. They were tied together. When they fail, they became untethered. So this tie broke. So he gets up. They fall all the way down this mountain.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
He gets up to look for Janet. Where did she go? Can't find her, but he does see John Cooper's body. According to Zeller, he went over to him, he checked him, and he was very dead and apparently frozen solid. Now, he says he didn't see any cuts on his skin or any tears in his clothing, so he assumed this wasn't a fall. He just died of exhaustion and hypothermia.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Essentially, when they sent him down there by himself, whether they meant to or not, they sent him to his death. He was already suffering from hypoxia, and he just couldn't make it. I hate to keep comparing this to Dyatlov, but I think there's a lot of similarities. Recall, three of the group members in that case, they made it all the way down the mountain. They built a fire there.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Three of them tried to go back. They tried to go back up to the tent, and none of them made it. Each one sort of further and further up the mountain fell and died from exhaustion. Hypothermia, exactly what happened here. He's trying to make it back down, but he can't make it, and he dies of hypothermia. At least that's what Zeller believed. So he finds Johnson. He finally finds her.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
This may be a case that you guys are not familiar with. It is incredibly famous in Argentina where it takes place. It's incredibly famous amongst certain mountaineers and people who love to climb mountains and love to challenge themselves. It's an old case. It's back in the 1970s, but it's one of those that came back
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And he realizes there are only, and this is his description of the distance, three or four city blocks from camp. He can actually see the tents. So he thinks, okay. We're right there. And you know, if there's something that's worked out great so far, it's splitting up. Splitting up is exactly what we should do.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
So he decides rather than, I don't know, tie himself back up to Janet, get her up on her feet. She's fine. She's fine here. I just found my friend dead who I sent down here alone. He died of exhaustion and hypothermia, but she looks good. So I'm just going to leave her here. He decides just to leave her there and he's going to go on down to camp. He'll set up the tent and she'll just follow along.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Once she's back up on her feet and doing better, she's going to come on down and everything will be fine. This is his plan. Now, granted, once again, He's not exactly thinking clearly. None of them are. And I don't want to be too hard on him because it's very easy sitting here, you know, at sea level to say that was a really bad plan. But that was his plan.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And look, I don't know if any of y'all have ever climbed a mountain. I certainly have not. So I am not speaking from experience. But there is someone in the in the chat just said savage and savage is a great word. There is sort of a savage morality about mountain climbing.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
into sort of popular culture and the popular mind because of a New York Times article that was published shortly after a camera from this was found, many, many years after this happened. A camera was found on a glacier on Aconcagua and the film was pristine and they were able to develop the photos and the New York Times wrote an incredible article about it. We're gonna link to that article.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And they talk about this sometimes in Everest, that people climb this mountain, you reach a point on Everest where if something happens to you, you are going to die and no one can help you. And if they try to help you, they're going to die too. And it leads to these very callous things. The stories you'll hear about somebody who was on the trail. Because this trail, everybody takes it.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And so you pass dead bodies on the way. In fact, dead bodies become markers. Once you reach that dead body, there was one called Green Boots that was very famous. You reach Green Boots, take a right at Green Boots, right? And there are stories of like...
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
People dying on the side of this trail and these mountain climbers are just passing them heading up to the summit because they just have to keep going, you know, and and just sort of the cruelty of that that you're just like, well, that's too bad for that person heading on up to the summit so I can take my selfie. Right. Because they can't do anything. They can't actually help them.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And this is a situation where, you know, I wonder what's going on here. Is this just part of that sort of savage morality? Just this code that everybody knows there is a point where I can't save you or if I try and save you, I'm only going to lose my own life. So these guys, when they leave, they are leaving her to die. If she's not dead already, they're leaving her to die. They have to know that.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They're not going to get down to base camp and she's going to be there drinking tea. When they decide to head down... She is dead. They are deciding she's dead. Now, they may think she's already dead. You know, they've already made some decisions, which I think partially could be their minds are clouded, but also could have been just pure physical exhaustion.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
It's easy, once again, to criticize them for literally getting to camp. She's not there and they decide to go to sleep. But I think this probably was arguably at least, you know, defend them too much, but arguably just they are so exhausted. They could not go back up, even if it was only a couple of city blocks, which is what he says. They could not go back up to get her.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They were physically unable. And if they had tried to do that, they would have died. But this feels very, very callous. Everything they've done really for the past couple of days.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
We relied heavily on that article. It is wonderfully done. One of those long form pieces of journalism. You don't see that often.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And look, I feel like I've been making excuses for these guys up to this point. At this point, I'm going to stop because I get it. They weren't the most close-knit group of people. But...
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
I don't know how many of you guys have ever been in an experience where you're thrown into something with people you don't know and sort of almost like a foxhole type experience where you spend every waking moment with people working towards a goal. Usually, Even if you start off, you know, like the movie, right? You start off as disparate people from different places who have nothing in common.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
anymore so check it out read it you will enjoy it that's probably enough wind up let's get into the story so as i said we're going to mount acancagua argentina and acancagua is a famed mountain located in the southern andes mountains in west central argentina i've never been to argentina alice have you been to argentina
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
But this scrappy group of misfits joined together. It's like Goonies or something, right? Like, usually you see that. Some camaraderie. I mean, think of everything they've done over these last week or so. All they've overcome. All the work they've done together. You would have thought they would have...
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
bonded a little bit cooper was part of the group right i mean he he was at least better known two of them janet but here they're not like we got to get up there they're up there you know we've got to do something what what do you need i'll draw you a map i'll do whatever i can like get get me somewhere get me a map of the mountain i will point out to you exactly where we were you know so you can get up there with helicopters or whatever there's none of that it's almost like
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
you know, I'm reminded of the Robert one case where the three guys, they get into the room and they just shut down. Right. And, and it feels like that's happening here. Like these people are just like, yeah, sorry. I don't know. I don't know. Altitude, man. It's a, it's rough. And that's what it feels like. Right.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
It just feels like none of these people were that interested in, in really helping to figure out what happened here on the slim chance slim, though it may be, that Janet is still alive somewhere up on that mountain.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And the next day, February 11th, they will leave and they will return to America. And, you know, two of their companions will remain on that mountain. And it's interesting what Alice said. If you don't give any help, you know, who knows? Maybe the bodies will just never even be found. She's going to leave them on the mountainside. But, as we will discuss next week. the bodies will be found.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And right now you may be thinking, well, okay, yeah, there's some questionable decisions here. I can see how, you know, maybe the things they did, sending him down alone, not going back for her, you know, that contributes to her death. And is that somehow some sort of some murder? And maybe that's what we're getting at. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. When those bodies are found,
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
The condition they are found in is going to raise far more serious questions than just did they make mistakes? Were they callous in how they treated these two people? Things are going to be found that make the authorities highly suspicious. that something violent happened on that mountainside.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
I would love to go to Argentina. If anybody out there is listening from Argentina, you want to host us, let us know. I would love to go to Argentina. I've been to South America, but only Peru and Bolivia. And I would love to go to Argentina and Brazil and Chile and various other places. But enough of that.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
We're going to talk about that and more next week when we return to Mount Aconcagua for this mystery that I'm going to go on a limb and say most of you have not heard of, but it's just intriguing. There's something about it that is so powerful
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
primal and basic you know just the most the purest sort of animal sense of being human when you're on that mountain you know morality and laws are suspended and things start to happen that maybe you don't talk about when you get back down to base camp Well, we'd love to hear your thoughts at this point. Shoot us an email at prosecutorspod at gmail.com at prosecutorspod for all your social media.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
We're on Instagram. We're on Facebook in the gallery. We're on X slash Twitter. And I guess we're still on TikTok. We were off TikTok for about 12 hours, but now I guess we're back. So make sure you check all that out and you can send us a message there. If you have a case you want us to cover, this one as always. pretty much all of them these days, was recommended by one of you.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Shoot us an email at prosecutorspod. That is the best way to do it. I let y'all send DMs and Facebook messages and everything else, and those tend to get lost. If you send me an email, it will be added to the list, and we may cover it eventually. We will cover it eventually if we do this long enough, but we got a lot. We got a long list at this point.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Alice, do you have time for a question, or do you need to head out?
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Okay. Sorry. We're at that early stage, guys, where the babies are unpredictable.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Yeah. So we talked too much. So we'll do two questions next week to make up for it. Hear him. I do hear him. I do hear him. See, that's special, though. Somebody was just saying they were listening to an old episode and they could hear Brittany crying. So this is just a time capsule of your life. All right. There you go. Alice is going to go take care of her baby.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
We will be back next week with the conclusion of this mystery. But until then, I'm Brett. And I'm Alice. And we are the prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, two experienced mountain climbers die on an expedition up Aconcagua. Did the mountain kill them, or was it murder? See how I nailed that mountain name? Aconcagua.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
So this is actually the highest point in the Western Hemisphere with its summit at 22,831 feet above sea level. So this is about... 6,000 meters, over 6,000 meters. For those of you in other countries, I guess that's what it is. I'm making that up. It's also one of the most popular mountains in South America with around 3,500 people attempting to summit it each year.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
You killed it, Alice. You killed it.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
I guess I should go live. Yeah, sure.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And this is because despite its altitude, it's actually considered one of the easier mountains to summit. Many use it as sort of a warmup. It's a good training mountain for some of the more difficult mountains at similar altitudes like Mount Denali, even Mount Everest. but not all routes up Aconcagua are a walk in the park. So there are easy ways to go up, and this is true of a lot of mountains.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
For instance, Everest, I don't know if there's any easy way, but the way people go up, they go up one face of Everest, and that's the way they all go. And if you've seen photographs of expeditions to Everest, you'll see long lines of people because that's where they all are. There's another face that people have attempted to summit, much more difficult. It has been summited before, but very rarely.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And that's similar here. So there's an exception that is a difficult climb. It's the kind of climb, if you want to challenge yourself, you don't want to warm up, you want to challenge yourself, you'll take. It's called the Polish Glacier Route. It is far more difficult. It requires considerable technical climbing skills to successfully complete.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And it cuts straight up the east side of the mountain. It requires ice climbing skills to tackle. It's got snow and ice slopes. They can be up to 70 degrees, not in temperature. It's very cold up there. You know, you're using your crampons and using ropes and using your ice axe. And it's actually really difficult.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And the weather is incredibly unpredictable and can be severe and can change on a dime. So if you're taking this path, you better hope that you get a good group that trust each other, knows each other and people with a lot of experience. But. or maybe because of its difficulty. That is the route eight Americans were determined to take in 1973.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
This expedition would be led by Carmi Defoe, and it would attempt to be the fifth, only the fifth expedition to top Aconcagua via the Polish route. It's called the Polish route because the first people to do it were, say it with me, Russian. No, I'm just kidding. They were Polish.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Unfortunately. After a long and grueling climb, the group would never reach the summit. Not only that, but two of the people who went up would not come down. 35-year-old John Cooper and 36-year-old Janet Johnson. But even though it's been 50 years since these two experienced mountainers died on this mountain, how they died is still not clear. Was it the result of some sort of accident or
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
on the mountain, or were they the victims of foul play? Even today, that mystery persists, but we are going to solve it.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And we are the prosecutors. today on The Prosecutors. Two experienced mountain climbers die on an expedition up Aconcagua. Did the mountain kill them? Or was it murder? Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my muy frija co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And I think when the expedition starts off, it has a lot going for it. You've got all of these men who were members of the same climbing club. As Alice said, they are a group that has all the skills you need. You have an interpreter, you have a doctor, you know, you have experienced climbers. You have some other people whose job is going to be to carry stuff. Cause that's important.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
One of the people going up as a police officer and he was, he was kind of the strong man of the group and he would carry a lot of their gear and And this is a really good group and you would think they would have a really good chance of making it to the top. Mountaineering is one of those things where you really, it's hard to do it alone.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
I mean, people do it and people summit mountains alone all the time. Those people tend to be the very best. If you're somebody who just likes to climb mountains, but you're not like a world-class athlete, you want to do it in a group and you want it to be part of a team that you have a lot of chemistry with. And they started off that way, but they're going to make a decision.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And it's unclear why they made this decision, frankly. And you read a bunch of stuff and it's just a little unusual. It's kind of like Zolotarov with The Outlaws Past. They add someone at the very end. In November 1972, Defoe says they're going to have another member added to their crew. 36-year-old Janet Johnson, who's a teacher from Denver, Colorado. Now, they didn't really know her.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
You know, a lot of these people are from Oregon. But she was probably the most experienced climber in the group. I think that was one of the reasons they wanted to take her. Obviously, she's the only woman. By the age of 30, she had become one of the first 20 women to climb to the summits of Colorado's 14ers. There are 50 mountains in Colorado that exceed 14,000 feet, and she had climbed them all.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
Her expeditions and her photographs are often featured in Trail and Timberline magazine. She was an excellent photographer. And if you see the photos from this expedition, you know that. And I wonder if that was part of it, if they thought we'll have her, she'll document the trip and it'll elevate it. Maybe we can get into these magazines.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
She also was someone who had climbed peaks around the world. This is what she did. This is what she was into. She was gay. And that's important because according to her sister, she didn't have a lot of friends. When she came out to her parents, their reaction was very negative.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And her response was to kind of go into herself and to become a very introverted person and someone who did a lot of challenges on her own. And so she would climb these mountains, but she wasn't really a team player. She becomes part of this team. And that introversion is going to be something that the team members notice.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
And it's going to be something that starts to create some friction, not because of her sexuality, but because of sort of her personality that has kind of grown out of that. And you're going to see that as we move forward in this case. So January 19th, 1973, the climbers arrive in Argentina. You might think, man, they're going to climb a mountain in the middle of winter.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
No, in Argentina, it's actually summer. So this is the perfect time to climb the mountain. And they were greeted by reporters at the Nutabera Hotel in Mendoza's city center. And this is one of those things where this was kind of a big deal. They're going to do this thing that's only been done four times before. There are a bunch of Americans. There's some buzz about this.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
So you have these reporters show up. And what's interesting is one of the reporters, Rafael Moran, he was a reporter from Los Andes, which is a daily newspaper in Mendoza. He's interviewing the Mountaineers near the pool, and he taps into something that we've been hinting at that is going to become important. He has this feeling about the group.
The Prosecutors
293. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 1 of 2 -- Mountain Sound
They're not the kind of all in it together group that you expect to see from some mountaineers who are going to try a really difficult climb. They are not friendly. They are not chummy. In fact, it seems like they are disconnected from one another and not really prepared for for the serious task of climbing Aconcagua. And this is not him looking back with 20-20 hindsight.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I think now is the time for you to tell your story, Alice.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
You've told it before, but some people don't listen to all the episodes, so.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And we are the prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, strange shadows in the night, televisions turning on and off, objects moving without any apparent cause. A tale better told in October? No, something far, far more terrifying. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my peachy co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Yeah, I mean, there's pretty much nothing more invasive than someone being in your house, digging through your stuff, eating your food. You're talking about losing any sense of security. You just want to lock yourself in a closet with a gun all the time. And like you said, I mean, it's fortunate that nothing happened to those girls. And it's fortunate that nothing happened in this case.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I mean, obviously, he had a hatchet at one point. And as we're going to see, it's certainly, they are very lucky. I mean, this is a terrible story. We probably wouldn't be doing this story if this was as fascinating as this is. It's only going to get worse. So the police obviously were very interested in why is this guy doing this? Well, it would turn out, remember, he's been there for six months.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Well, it turns out that six months before that, Tina, the oldest daughter, had agreed to go on a date with Daniel LaPlante. Now, she did not like him. They did not hit it off. Tina has a good sense for a crazy person sitting across from her, apparently. He gave her really bad vibes, rubbed her the wrong way, and he was very fixated on her mother's death. So they only went on one date.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
This was one date and done. But that was enough for Daniel. At that point, he became absolutely insane. Obsessed. And this obsession led him to going to her home and living in the walls of her house for six months, watching her, watching her family and doing all these incredibly bizarre things. And remember back to that champagne. I think we know who the champagne was for now. It was for Tina.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And it's just fortunate that they didn't go back. And it's fortunate that her dad saw him in the window because I got to think if he'd have walked into that house, not realizing what he was walking into, there's no telling what would have happened to him.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Living in your walls. I mean, who knows how many of those dates living in your walls, probably even as we speak.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Well, this case is going to take us all the way back to June 1986. So Frank Bowen and his daughters, Tina and Karen, they began to notice some strange happenings at their home in Pepperell, Massachusetts. So it started out innocuous enough. Strange sounds throughout the evening. Human-shaped shadows everywhere.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Daniel was charged with the obvious, breaking and entering a dwelling. Four counts of kidnapping, because remember, he moved them from the one room to another. And that's all it takes for kidnapping. Kidnapping is very simple. You force someone through the use of force or intimidation to move from one place to another. Doesn't have to be very far.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
In this case, it was literally from, I guess, the foyer where the closet was to the bedroom. That's enough. He's charged with kidnapping. Four counts of armed assault, larceny, and malicious destruction of property. So he's got some pretty hefty charges against him. Now let's talk a little bit about Daniel. Daniel was born May 15, 1970 in Townsend, Massachusetts.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
His family life was not a happy one. They were very poor. The home was dilapidated. There was junk everywhere. There were old cars littering the lawn. And Daniel would later claim that he was sexually and psychologically abused by several people in his life, including his father and his psychiatrist who he had gone to to attempt to deal with some of these issues.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
That person took advantage of him and also abused him. school was no better for him he attended st bernard's high school in fitchburg massachusetts he was described there as a loner and not particularly friendly by the age of fifteen he had turned to criminal behavior and he began to break into various neighbors homes steal valuables and sell them just to get by
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Now, he is pretty young, and because of his young age, he is held in a juvenile detention center leading up to his trial. But about 10 months after his arrest, the case was transferred from juvenile court to Lowell Superior Court. And I guess the intention was they're going to treat him more like he's an adult.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
But unfortunately, this change is going to lead to a decision that's going to have very bad consequences.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
on the wall which doesn't seem innocuous to me by the way maybe innocuous wasn't the right word to use there and someone repeatedly ding dong ditching the home but things only got stranger tina and karen would pour a glass of milk and then find that it had been drank before they were even able to take a sip.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I feel like Daniel didn't have a whole lot of... Structure? Family attention. Yeah.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
A lot of red flags going up. But unfortunately, as Al said, found one gun. They didn't know about the other one. And they didn't find the other one. So Daniel still has a gun. Fast forward to November 16th, 1987. So we're now at a point less than a month after he's been released on bail. He takes that gun and he breaks into the home of Andrew and Priscilla Gustafson.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
While he's there, he steals multiple items from the house, including a cordless telephone, two cable television boxes, a cable television remote. and some coins from a Liberty Silver Dollar collection. Now, this is pretty much a continuation of what he's done in the past. The living in the walls of the home was a little bit of an aberration. He has been someone who has broken into houses.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
He has been someone who was stolen from houses. One problem with burglary is a lot of times we don't take it as seriously as we should. It's seen as sort of a low-level crime. Even though you've ever been burglarized, you know how just invasive that is. I mean, the fact someone breaking into your house, it's not as bad as someone living in your house, but it's pretty awful.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
But we don't really take it that seriously. A lot of times, though, burglarers are the people who eventually elevate to worse crimes. And we're going to see that here.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And you have to imagine, as Daniel was walking around the Gustafson house, that he recognized that their family could not have been more different than his own. They were living a happy life in Townsend. Andrew and Priscilla were happily married. They had two children together, Abigail, who was seven, and William, who was five. And Priscilla was newly pregnant with their third child.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
The channels on the TV would change without the family members touching any sort of remote control or the television itself. Food and personal belongings began to go missing. Now this was weird, obviously. I've never experienced anything like this. But Frank, he was skeptical. When his daughters came and told him about all these strange things that were happening.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Andrew worked in real estate, and Priscilla was a preschool teacher at the Townsend Cooperative Preschool. The family was well-liked and very friendly. Fillers of the community, pretty much the perfect family. Everything you could want in life, they had. Daniel, he leaves the home. He takes some of the stolen items and he ends up hiding them in his brother Stephen's tool cabinet.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, by the way. You know, it's not... It's not typically how it works, by the way.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And I have a deal with my wife because the one thing I've noticed about horror movies and horror novels and everything else is the significant other never believes it. They always doubt. And it always turns out that they're right. And then, you know, the other person's telling them, hey, this is happening. This strange thing's happening. And they're always like, oh, Susanna. It's fine.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I'm sure it's nothing. It's all in your head. And then sure enough, it turns out it's like, you know, either the house is haunted by some ancient evil or some serial killers after them or whatever. And if only they'd listened, they could have saved everybody. And usually the husband or wife who doesn't believe is one of the people who ends up dead. So anyway, so I have a deal with my wife.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Always believe. If I ever tell you, you know, this crazy weird thing's happening, you have to believe it. So hopefully she'll stick to that. Anyways, but Dad, he is skeptical. He does not believe. He hears his daughter telling him this, and he thinks that they are still having a hard time coping with the death of their mother, who had died only a year prior. And this is perfectly logical.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I can imagine thinking something like this. And that's what he's saying. He's like... These weird things are on the girl's heads. Everybody processes grief differently. They're obviously doing that. They've suffered this tragedy. So I'm going to let them sort of I'm going to indulge these fantasies they have. But there's nothing to it. But things continued to escalate.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
So at this point, Daniel is going to plead not guilty to all counts of first degree murder. And he was ordered to undergo 20 days of psychiatric evaluation at Bridgewater State Hospital, which I would expect. I mean, at this point, he's either he's either an absolute monster or he's out of his mind. I think is basically what people are thinking.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
We need to figure that out is even competent to stay in trial is going to be a question that's going to happen in this case. So police obtained a second search warrant for his home. Later on, his brother, Stephen LaPlante, and friend, Michael Palowski, they would find the murder weapon in the glove compartment of an abandoned vehicle on Daniel's property.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Remember, there's all those cars, and this is pretty clearly what the second search warrant was for. They were looking for that murder weapon. They couldn't quite find the murder weapon. Well, they eventually do find it. He has hidden it in the glove compartment. And I just want to say, This goes to, we talk about the insanity defense. Like he clearly, he thought this through.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
He planned for the murder and he's attempting to cover it up by hiding the gun. I think that would be something that was important. He is eventually indicted on 28 counts. Four charges related to the murder, a handful related to the Bowen family. Remember, I mean, as horrible as what happened to them was, that was like a blessing compared to the stuff he's going to do later.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And then, of course, all these other things he's done, like kidnapping this other lady, all the break-ins, everything. And a judge ruled he would have to be tried for the murders first. That's not that unusual, because if you try somebody for triple homicide, you find him guilty of that. You're probably just going to go ahead and find him guilty of breaking and entering.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Probably not even going to really think about that if you're the jury. So basically, we're going to separate those out. He's going to be tried for the murders. And then if the state decides to go ahead and try him for those, he'll be tried for the other charges as well.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
One day, the phone lines to the house were cut. And at this point, it became clear that something was really wrong. And the Bowens began to consider selling their home.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And this is a situation where there's no downside to going to trial unless he wants to plead guilty to sort of alleviate his own mind, the burden of what he's done, right? We talked about this in some of the Richard Allen case. If it's not a death penalty case, and if you plead guilty, it's life without parole, you might as well roll the dice, right?
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And it seems like that's basically what happened here. He rolled the dice, but his defense knew this is basically a slow guilty plea. There's no defense we can put on, so let's just try and poke holes and maybe... We'll get lucky with the jury. But on October 26th, 1988, the jury found Daniel guilty on all counts. Massachusetts does not have the death penalty.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And so he was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences without parole. And not surprisingly, He was never tried for the charges related to tormenting the Bowen family or any additional charges because, once again, he has been convicted. He's going to be in prison for the rest of his life. The Commonwealth decides not worth pursuing those, and they let him go. That's fairly common.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
In 1993, his appeal was denied, and that should have been the end of it. But then the Supreme Court, in its infinite wisdom, bans life without parole sentences for juveniles. And this made some convicted killers eligible for parole after only two.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
15 years and i say ban life without parole sentences not actually they banned automatic life without parole sentences so basically you had to conduct some sort of there has to be some showing that this is a particularly egregious crime that's worthy of a life without parole for a juvenile juveniles can get life without parole but it's not automatic in the way it would be for an adult
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And look, I believe in parole, but can we start prioritizing victims and protecting society and not like, why do you have a law? specifically cites crimes of extreme cruelty and atrocity as ones you're going to allow parole on. Extreme cruelty and atrocity should be the ones that don't get parole. Those should be the people who die in prison. That's what should happen to Daniel.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
He should die in prison. But, you know, whatever. They're citing this law. Fortunately, and I think this speaks to just how horrible Daniel's crimes were that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, which is not exactly known to be tough on crime.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Pretty pro, however you want to put that. They are it. Well, they denied Laplante's request for early trial. eligibility for parole. Justice David Lowy wrote the court decision and he provided the following rationale. The defendant's sentence is proportional both to the crimes he committed and to his particular characteristics as an offender. Yes, it is.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Ultimately, the resentencing judge concluded that although the defendant had shown signs of improved behavior in recent years, his prognosis for rehabilitation in the future is guarded. You can say that again. Daniel is currently being held at the Massachusetts Correctional Institute in Norfolk. He will be eligible for parole in 2033.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
So in eight years, those of you living in Massachusetts, prepare yourselves for his possibility of parole, though we can hope he'll never get parole. He will be 62 years old at that time.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And we talked about before, a lot of times criminal behavior, people will age out of it. So your criminal active years are not unlike your working years. You know, your 20s to your late 50s is really when you see people commit most crimes. And so for a lot of things, you can get people past that. You feel like they probably are not a dangerous society. I think whatever is in him.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And whatever it was that drove him to do this, whether it's just a real darkness in his heart or some sort of mental illness, whatever it is, it's still there and it will always be there. So I think he will always be a threat. And I don't care how old he is. You know, you can fire a gun at any age. And that's how he is killed before. And I think he would kill again. This story is a terrible one.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
If you just can't get enough of it. True crime all the time. Did some coverage of this dark down east. There's a lot of articles about it. There have been several one-hour shows that do different crimes every week, have done some pretty good shows on this as well, so there's stuff out there.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
But it is a terrible crime, and it's wild because it starts off with just this utterly bizarre incident where he's living in the walls of somebody's home, and you just wish that someone had recognized just how dangerous deviant that kind of behavior was. And this was not a person who needed to be out on bail if he'd done something like that.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Because my first thought, if I had been that family, I mean, I would have gotten out of the state because my first thought would have been he's coming back for us. He didn't do that, but he did target another family and he wiped them out.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
No, I think you're absolutely right about that. And look, we would love to hear your thoughts on this case. Shoot us an email, prosecutorspod at gmail.com, at prosecutorspod for our social media. If you have had someone living in the walls of your house, let us hear the story. It'll freak Alice out all the better. You see, Alice, there's that door behind you. Who knows what's behind that door?
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Thanks. I'm not entirely sure. I should start keeping track of who recommends cases for us. But whoever recommended that case, I mean, wow. That one is a dark one. Alice, do you have a second or you need to go? I don't want to keep you if you need to go.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Well, I'm going to do something slightly different today. So you guys probably recall the William Alas episode we did at the end of last year. We got like a really incredible response to that episode. And one thing that we got was a lot of people who sent their own stories into us. And we're fine with us sharing them with you because they wanted more people to
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
who have been victimized, who've been victims to know that they're not alone and that it is possible to get justice. So we have several of these, but I was going to read one of those emails we received to you guys. And obviously I won't name the person, but.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
This person says, I saw your comment on the post about the above episode, the A-list episode, and I wanted to reach out because I have a story I want to share. I'm in the UK, so parts of it will be different to how things work in the US, but having spent the last eight months going through a police investigation into events that happened over 25 years ago, I have things I'd like to share.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
It's a really common story in that it involves a teacher, and the rest I expect you can guess. The file has just been given to the Crown prosecutor to decide if charges can be brought against him. In the period leading up to me deciding to make a report to the police, I searched for stories of people who had done the same and only found one that resulted in a successful prosecution.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
The journey is an incredibly lonely one at times, and I believe the more stories that are out there, The better, because even if someone doesn't want to make a report, hearing other experiences is so incredibly validating.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Just knowing that similar things have happened to other people is powerful and can be helpful in starting to see the level of manipulation, planning, and skill that underpin the crimes themselves. Wishing you both a very Merry Christmas and a joyful and peaceful day. New Year. So I want to thank that person for sharing that.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I want to share it with you because I think what she says is absolutely true. You are not alone. There are other people who've gone through it before, and it is possible to come out the other side and even to find justice.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And as people share their stories, we'll be sure to share them with you. And just know that you're not alone. There are people out there who want to help. We want to help. And you can get through this. Okay, guys. Well, this has been a heavy episode. But, you know, that's what y'all come for, I guess. Weirdos. We'll be back next week with a new case. Maybe one... Maybe we'll do like...
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Maybe not a child murder. Maybe we'll do a mystery next week. One that doesn't, exactly, doesn't involve child murder. So those of you, you know, next week won't be the West Memphis Three. I'm just going to tell you that. Okay. Well, we'll be back next week with something. Who knows what. But until then, I'm Brett. And I'm Alice. And we are the prosecutors.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Well, this case is going to take us all the way back to June 1986. So Frank Bowen and his daughters, Tina and Karen, they began to notice some strange happenings at their home in Pepperell, Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Massachusetts. We try that again. Some strange happenings at their home.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
In Pepperell, Massachusetts. It's like my words just didn't want to come out. It was like the words. It was so good though, Massachusetts.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
There you go. I was trying to get into that. I'm trying to just put on my Boston, but that's probably not. It's always nice to go back to Massachusetts. I am very happy. Somebody asked if I was using peachy because we're going to Georgia. You're the one who's the words connect. I'm sorry. I just throw them out there.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
You're talking about something straight out of a horror movie. I mean, it's not just there's somebody in the house. But, like, the face painted and the hair sticking straight up. I mean, I just... I don't know. Like, you talk about terrifying. I think I would just have a heart attack right there. I would just have a heart attack and drop dead. And I wouldn't... I mean, can you imagine...
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
I got to say, not to keep interrupting, but you made a good point earlier and I just want to emphasize it. What exactly did Frank think he was going to find? Yeah. Like, how did he think this was going to end? Yeah. In a positive way.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Like you open enough doors, eventually you're going to find something behind one. And this is about as horrifying as it could be. But no matter what you found, it would not be a good thing. I mean.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Tina knows when it's time. There's a time to plan and there's a time to jump out the window. And this was a time to jump out the window.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Right. So at this point, she's ran to the neighbor. The neighbor calls the police and they are racing to the scene. They interview Tina as well as the neighbor. And Tina is telling them what's going on. She gives them the phone number to the home. They try calling. But of course, the calls are unanswered. At this point, they surround the home, making a plan on what they're going to do.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
You have a situation where a guy you know is armed and pretty clearly out of his mind. And you have these civilians who are there as well. And you don't know what the situation is. You don't know if he's gotten into that bedroom, if he's now taking them hostage, what the danger is. The police are not just going to start opening doors and closets and seeing what they find.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
So they surround the house. And as they're getting ready, they're also making a plan, just like Frank was earlier. Well, Frank now sees them. And he is now calling to them from the second story window. So they managed to get up to the house. And Frank lowers the two other girls down to them. And then he jumps down himself. So now all the civilians are out of the home.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
The police can enter the home. And the only danger is to them. They don't have to worry about the civilians. So they go in. They search the home. They search the surrounding area. They search the woods behind the house for any sign of the intruder. But they aren't able to find him. He has disappeared just as quickly as he appeared. He is now gone and they don't know where he went.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
So some point, you know, while the family's all locked in this bedroom and Tina's running, it appears to them that he has escaped. So the sliding back door to the home was slightly open and they found a hatchet and a wrench on the ground near the porch steps. And at this point, they're like, OK, this is what happened. He slipped out through the sliding glass door. He left his weapons here.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
He's taken off before we can get to him. So no one knew who this was. It wasn't immediately obvious to the family or law enforcement. Obviously, this person had their face painted. They're dressed in a fur coat with their hair standing on end. Not easy to ID them. The physical description given by the Bowen family varied from person to person. You can imagine this is a high stress situation.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
They're all freaking out. They're describing it. They all saw the same guy, but they're all describing a different person. So this is not very helpful. There's not a whole lot of evidence to go off of. And it appears the intruder was not only wearing a fur coat, he was also wearing gloves. So the hatchet and the wrench had no fingerprints on them. So they couldn't use fingerprints to identify him.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
And the Bowens were told probably shouldn't stay at the house tonight, which some obvious advice from the police, but best advice you could give. And you know what? They agreed. So they decide we're leaving the house. We're not going to stay at the house tonight. We don't know if the guy will come back. They go off to stay somewhere else.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
That was CMP's word for you. Peachy. Peachy keen.
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
It's like, policeman walks in and sees X, Y, and Z. If you saw this in a horror movie, you'd be like, that's ridiculous. That's too much. You've gone too far, script writers. Like the knife stabbed through the photo. Too much. And the I'll be back and I'm in your room. And the champagne, the two glasses of champagne. Like, who is it for?
The Prosecutors
292. Daniel LaPlante -- Somebody's Watching Me
Yeah. Now, I mean, the BB gun is really not that big a deal. But everything else is just terrifying. And this is a true story. All this, I promise you, all this absolutely happened.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit Progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Guys, we want to talk about one of our favorite podcasts, a podcast we love so much we have appeared on it multiple times.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Silver Linings Handbook with Jason Blair. Jason is a friend of ours, but he's not just that. He is an incredible interviewer, an incredible podcaster, and his episodes will pull something out of you you didn't even know existed.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
was there he says that he wants to have conversations that inspire and he does just that with interesting conversations with interesting people and the themes that he looks at are not just true crime though he's got a lot of great true crime episodes as well he talks about growth understanding belonging compassion things that are important in true crime and in life
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So, when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Holmes.com. We've done your homework.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And look, the way this story is usually told is that that target was solely Kerr-McGee. But I think it is worth remembering as we talk about this. Unions are controversial, even within plants. And this union was controversial at this plant. There were plenty of people who worked there who were not union members.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
There were attempts while she was there to ban the union where the union barely survived. It would almost fail. So there were a lot of workers who wouldn't necessarily have appreciated what she was doing because they would have viewed it as her threatening their job. You're making all these complaints. You're going to get this place shut down. We're going to lose our jobs.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And I feel like that's something that people don't really talk about. There's a podcast called Radioactive, the Karen Silkwood Mystery. It's by ABC. It's really good. Two reporters from Oklahoma said, But I mean, and there I give it to them. They're up front about it. I mean, from the very beginning of the podcast, they're basically like, we really like her. We think she was murdered by Kermit.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
That's basically what they say in the first 20 minutes. Right. So they spend the rest of the podcast trying to prove that. And I will give them credit that they also when evidence comes up against that theory, they don't try and hide it. So good podcast. They make it clear where they're coming from going in. But I felt like that was something they talked about.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But they're so focused on the idea that she was murdered by the company that they don't really consider other alternatives, which I think are equally interesting. So that's just one to remember. She is someone who was outspoken, who would have made enemies both for what she was arguing and probably just because she was a woman. who was being a loud mouth, right? I mean, it's the 70s.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
It's not hard for you guys to imagine sort of the circumstance that she's in. It probably wasn't the most supportive place. So let's start the timeline because the timeline is going to tell us a lot. So in 1965, the Cimarron fuel fabrication site was opened in Crescent, Oklahoma.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
The site was originally licensed for uranium fuel fabrication and was used to fabricate enriched uranium fuel for nuclear reactors. So just to give you a quick and dirty, probably mostly wrong background on nuclear energy. So uranium is a rock. It's lots of different places have it when you find it used to be perfectly useless.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She could turn into water? Wow.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But at some point when we started to understand the way nuclear reactions work, we realized that uranium was a really good fuel for nuclear reactions. And you can't have iron is not really a great thing for nuclear reactions. You need something that's already radioactive. which uranium is. It decays, it emits radiation naturally, but low levels.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And just uranium itself, it's kind of like unrefined gold, right? Or diamonds that haven't been polished up. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's not that great. Enriched uranium, basically, as I understand it, you bombard it with certain particles and you get different isotopes of uranium. I think uranium-238 is the uranium that you use in nuclear reactors. But uranium
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So the original atomic bombs were uranium bombs. That's how they worked, was with uranium. And that's how sort of nuclear reactors started off. They were fueled by uranium. And uranium's great, but it doesn't give you as big a bang as maybe you would like. It's not as efficient.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
as another fuel which was eventually developed uranium is naturally occurring but using uranium you can create something called plutonium and plutonium is far more radioactive far more unstable far more dangerous far more explosive and far more energy packed than uranium.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And so in 1972, the Cimarron Fuel Fabrication Site, which is owned and operated by the Kerr-McGee Corporation, was awarded a $9.6 million contract, which doesn't sound like a lot, but at the time was a lot, from the Atomic Energy Commission to produce fuel rods for experimental nuclear reactors using plutonium instead of uranium. These reactors were called breeder reactors.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
I thought I mean water would be.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And so what was really sort of amazing about them was you could put plutonium in bombard the plutonium, generate the energy, create the steam, create the electricity, but you actually produced more plutonium while you were doing it. So the idea was you could essentially have using a limited amount of plutonium because it's creating more plutonium as it goes.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Number one, you can use that plutonium for nuclear weapons, which is important for national security. Because you can't build a nuclear bomb these days without plutonium, right? So that was important.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And it makes it much less expensive to operate the plant because your fuel, you're generating new fuel for the plant as you're generating energy, which is, you know, the idea of getting more energy than you put in. I mean, that's the stuff of science fiction. Right. So this was a huge deal.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And a lot of people really thought this is the answer to our our energy problems, because remember, it's the 70s. We're going towards a point where you're going to have the oil crash, where the price of energy is going to get much higher. People are starting to become much more concerned about the effect of burning fossil fuels, what that's doing to the environment, acid rain, all that stuff.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
You know, in England, you've just had the killer fogs. that killed thousands of people because everybody's burning coal in London, and there's just this smog sitting over the city, and people are looking for ways out. And nuclear power really seemed like that at the time. So this is very exciting, and it's very important. Kerr-McGee was a huge... Corporation in Oklahoma.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
You know, every street's the Kerr Street or the McGee Street. And one of them, I forget which one, was a United States senator from Oklahoma. I mean, these guys really matter. The company they built employs a lot of people. It's very powerful. And what it's doing is very important. So at the time, this was one of the largest employers in the area.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And most people didn't know about the dangers of working with plutonium. Plutonium is one of the most toxic substances known to man. It takes very little of it to kill you. But they weren't that... forthcoming about that, about what plutonium could do, both in the short term with exposures that could lead to radiation poisoning and in the long term with an increased risk of cancer.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So this is something that really we're sort of just aligning all these dangers and really focusing on the potential benefit of plutonium. So August 1972 is when Karen Silkwood gets a job at the Kerr-McGee Plutonium Plant and And she's working as a lab technician, and her job would entail making plutonium pellets.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So they're making these little pellets of plutonium that you feed into these nuclear reactors, and that's how you're going to fuel the reactor. Now, she becomes a member of the Oil, Chemical, and Atomic Workers Union. It's the first time. That she's ever really been a part of a union and she gets into it almost immediately. There's a contract negotiation going on. There's going to be a strike.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She becomes really involved in this. It was unlike anything she'd ever experienced. She'd never been involved in sort of on the ground politics like this. And she really liked it. The strike failed. And whenever a strike fails, it's always a blow to the union. And frankly, a lot of people who were in the union credited Karen with keeping the union together.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
There were a lot of people who said, why even have the union? We did this whole long strike. Nothing came of it. We should just abandon this. She kept the union together. And as part of that, she gets elected to the negotiating team. She is now in leadership in the union, as I said, the first and only woman in the union and who is in leadership.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And she is responsible in her job for the health and safety of union workers. And it was something that she took very seriously.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And look, they really didn't trust the Atomic Energy Commission. They thought the AEC was captured, which happens a lot with regulatory agencies. Regulatory agencies, often the people who make up those agencies are people who are experts in their field, who typically, before they became members of the agency, were employed by the companies they are now called upon to regulate.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So a lot of times they are captured. And so they felt like, number one, they already felt like they were blowing them off. They're coming to them and they're giving sort of eyewitness evidence. They're saying, look, we've seen this. We're seeing what they're doing. Here are the violations. And the AAC is like, sorry, we need documentation.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And there are two things I think that are worth pointing out here. Number one, the bravery aspect. of Karen to say, I will do it. I will be the one that will collect this information. She has to know, obviously she's putting her job at risk. She will later tell someone that's fine because when this is finished, she's leaving Kerr-McGee.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And if she has to, she'll shut the place down and she walks out the door. I mean, she is committed to this, right? But it also was incredibly stressful for her, as we're going to see. She couldn't sleep. She became paranoid, frankly. We're going to see some things that may or may not have happened where she was very concerned about things that were going on around her and in her life.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And she was eventually put on medication to help her sleep because she was so stressed out by this. So this was a huge burden on her that she was doing this. And she understood that this was not sort of an everyday thing that just anybody is going to do. It took a lot of bravery for her to do it. And it put her in a position where there was some danger.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Radiation is scary. It's one of those things that we don't understand very well, that we only really got to know about in the last 200 years, that the first person who really studied it died of radiation poisoning. So, you know, there's that. And something that those of us growing up in really any of the 20th century, constantly afraid of nuclear annihilation.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And you maybe think to yourself, that's impossible. It's impossible for that much plutonium to disappear. I mean, obviously their stringent security protocols would prevent that. And it is a testament to what a different time it was that there were no security protocols. There were no checks. There was nothing. And the people who worked at Kerr-McGee after this were asked, is this possible?
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Would say, absolutely. You could easily just walk out of the plant with a sack full of plutonium and no one would even notice. Like this would not have been a big deal to do this, which is, Mind-blowing, because as Alice said, it's a major national security issue. It doesn't really make sense that you'd sell it to Russia. They had plenty of plutonium.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But there are lots of people you could sell it to. In the mid-70s, I mean, there were a lot of sort of revolutionary organizations or just sovereign nations that would have loved to have that much plutonium for their production of a nuclear weapon. Because it's not easy to make plutonium.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
It's one of the things that prevents... There's a reason that even today, in 2025, there's only a handful of nations that possess an atomic bomb. Even though there are several that really want it. Because it's really hard to do. And this is a major issue...
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But it's also very strange because she handles this in almost like a, I don't want to call it lackadaisical, but she doesn't, for instance, she had been in constant communication with the union people in Washington, talking about the various things that occur McGee. She does not tell them this. She does not tell the union people, oh, by the way, 40 pounds of plutonium walked out the door.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She only tells a friend of hers and apparently another friend or someone, uh, Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
It was something that we were afraid of, but that wasn't always true. In fact, right after World War II, there was a big push that radiation was our friend. You had like cartoons about radiation. Disney was doing radiation things at Disney World and Disneyland to explain sort of how this, the atom, and harnessing the atom was the future.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And we were going to have unlimited power, relatively clean, relatively cheap, not dependent on fossil fuels. It was going to be amazing. And a lot of people were very excited to be a part of that. And one person, who wanted to be a part of this revolution was Karen Silkwood, a woman from Oklahoma. She lived in Oklahoma. She was originally from Texas, but I'm told there's no difference.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So no big deal there. And she wanted to be on the cutting edge of this revolution. And she would take a job that some would say cost her life when she began to uncover some of the dangers that you were just talking about.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Right. Exactly. So she's working a lot. She's stressed out. You know, she's getting home. And I don't know if you are like this, but I can have a really long day. We come and record. And after we record, I can't go to sleep, even if we get done pretty late. Like I have to stay up for a little while. And I can imagine she's working all the time. She's getting home.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She wants to go to sleep because she's got to be back to work in six hours. She's not able to sleep. So that's why one of the reasons she's taking the Quaaludes. So she checks back into work at 7.50 a.m. She works on paperwork in the lab for about an hour, at which point she tests herself again. And this is a shocking sort of moment because contamination is found on her hands.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She also has contamination on her right forearm, face, and neck. How did this happen? She had been decontaminated. When she left, she had no contamination. When she gets back, all of a sudden, she's contaminated again. She goes back to the area where they do decontamination. They decontaminate her again. She says, can I go to this union meeting? And they say, sure, you should be clean now.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
They take a lot of precautions, except for, you know, I told that story about the guy with the demon core. There was a core of uranium. He was keeping the core open with a screwdriver. Because as long as it was open, the radiation, low levels of radiation could escape and it didn't cause a criticality incident.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
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The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So the core didn't start to go critical, didn't start a chain reaction, which leads to a big burst of intense ionizing, killing radiation. And he accidentally knocked the screwdriver loose and the two halves closed, which started essentially a nuclear reactor in the middle of this lab. And the only thing he could do was yank the top off. And when he did that, he got blasted with radiation.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And I just want to point out, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, we have no knowledge of her ever being contaminated before. Now, she obviously thought there were holes in Kerr-McGee's procedures. She thought their safety processes were lax. She thought there were danger, there were a lot of dangers to workers. But she herself had never been through this contamination thing.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She's now been contaminated two times in a row. I mean, the last time she was in the lab, she's contaminated. She goes home. She comes back. She's contaminated again. She now goes off to this union meeting where presumably they're not having this in the middle of a reactor or anything. She gets done with the union meeting. She comes back at 430. She returns to the plant once again. She's going in.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She's tested again. And they find contamination on her right forearm, neck and face, and in her nostrils. So now, three straight times she's been tested. And three times she's had contamination. And in between each of those times, she was tested and found not to have contamination. So somehow...
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She is being contaminated, getting decontaminated, and then getting contaminated again, even though it doesn't seem like during any of these times she's actually anywhere where she should be open to contamination.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So she's decontaminated once again. And remember, these are every one of these is rough, just terrible experiences every time she has this happen. So she's now concerned. And so she asks Kerr McGee to check her locker and her car for possible contamination because she's trying to think, where could I have gotten this?
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So they test her locker, they test her car, and neither are found to be contaminated. So in neither of the places that she had been did they find any of the contamination that you might have expected she would have gotten.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
He died a few days later. He was the first person, I think, to die of radiation poisoning in that way in the United States. But those are the kind of stories you hear. And we're going to be talking a lot about that. And Alice is right. Paying attention to the timeline is important here. It's going to inform a lot of this mystery. And it is a mystery. It may be a murder mystery.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Another thing that's interesting is around this time, and I mentioned this earlier, we don't know the exact date this happened because it was something she said in passing to someone. That they only really thought of after she died. But Karen will report to a friend that she believes she's being followed. Now, as I said before, she is under a lot of pressure.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She feels like Kerr-McGee is focused on her. She has reason to think they might be looking at her. She starts to think she's followed. And to the extent that she does like some evasive maneuvers from a movie she'd seen or something to lose this person who's following her, which she does. She loses them, quote unquote, loses them if they're actually following her. But that's in her mind.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
She's not only having these contamination problems. She's not only getting rebuked by Kerr-McGee, but she thinks someone is following her at this time. On this day, the same day where she's been contaminated, she goes back to her apartment. Her boyfriend will stay with her that evening of November 6th. And she shared her apartment with another laboratory analyst from Kerr-McGee, Sherry Ellis.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Maybe an accidental death, but whatever it is, is tied to some pretty interesting things. So let's go ahead and dive in. Karen Silkwood was born February 19th, 1946 in Longview, Texas. So just after the detonation of the two nuclear bombs in Japan, which sort of introduced the world to nuclear power. She was the oldest of three girls and grew up in Nederland, Texas.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So at 8 a.m., her roommate, Sherry, left Kerr-McGee. So, you know, they're on different shifts. So she had not been at the apartment. She had been working. So as Karen's coming in, Sherry is leaving. She gets scanned. She is not contaminated. At the same time this is going on, you know, Karen's being decontaminated yet again.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
They are checking her locker and car yet again, and neither one are found to be contaminated. So Kerr McGee is really pulling their hair out here trying to figure out how this is happening. And they decide we're sending a team to Karen's apartment. So they send a team to the apartment and they find it to be contaminated.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Significant levels of plutonium were found in the bathroom and on a package of bologna and cheese in the refrigerator. Lower levels were found to be present in other rooms of the home. At its height, searchers found levels of 400,000 disintegrations a minute. Not great. Not terrible. It's actually pretty bad. That's a very high level of radiation, particularly for someone's apartment.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
That's not something they expected, even though they thought we're going to find something here. They didn't expect to find that. So they're thinking, OK, this is this is much more significant than what we thought.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So Sherry, remember, she's been home. She's going back to the apartment. She was clean when she left the plant. She's retested now and she has positive for plutonium on her hands and buttocks. I would expect that probably happened in the bathroom. She went to use the bathroom. It has been heavily contaminated, probably partially because the urine spill is a little unclear.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And now she has plutonium on her as well. And the only option at this point, given the amount of
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
radiation that's been detected is to strip this place down so they basically rip this place apart they decontaminate the whole apartment they seize all this property and they destroy it because it's all so heavily contaminated they can't just leave it there they got to get rid of it the very same day kermagee lawyers began talking with karen they have taken a look at the situation and the position of kermagee is pretty straightforward this couldn't have happened naturally
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Her sisters described her as caring and gutsy with a love for science. In high school, she developed an interest in chemistry and had a real skill for it. And this is all very interesting. She will continue to be a pioneer. She was basically the only girl in her chemistry class. At the time, women just were not expected to study science.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Like, I don't care what you say about our safety protocols. There's no way that all this contamination could have happened to you. It seems like you did this to yourself. And so that's their position. You did this to yourself. I'm not sure how. Maybe you're just incompetent. Maybe you're trying to accomplish something. We don't know. But you did this to yourself. Take responsibility for it.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And she refuses to do that. She says, absolutely not. That is not what happened. And I'm not going to say it did. So at this point, the contamination levels are so high that the company is essentially forced to send Karen to the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory in New Mexico for further testing, which at the time, I think even now, is the world's premier laboratory.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
hospital for any kind of in scientific location for any kind of radiation anything like that i mean this is the place to go they have access to that so they send karen they also send karen's boyfriend and sherry ellis since they had all been in the apartment to los alamos to look into what is happening OK, we're going to leave you there for now. So this contamination problem has become serious.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
We're seeing things that we just shouldn't see. We're seeing things that don't seem like they're possible. Even Kerr-McGee is now concerned that this is impossible. And it makes you wonder what exactly is going on here and why does it seem like Karen is the target of this? They're testing every employee in that plant. Whatever's going on, it seems to be focused on Karen.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
However this is happening, it seems like it's happening to her. The only other people who are testing positive are people around her. What is going on here? And in the days that follow this, this story will continue to accelerate until it leads, one way or the other, to Karen's death. And we're going to talk about that next week. Alice, do you have any initial thoughts before we hang it up?
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Okay. Now, Alice, what's your situation? Do you have time for a question or should we go ahead and wrap it up?
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
This one's pretty quick. I think we can do this. Okay. So this is from MJ Cooley. And MJ wants to know, how many of the 50 states in America have you been in, if even for a couple hours? I love that. And have you ever traveled outside the country for a case? Which the answer for me is no. I don't know if you have or not.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
You know, now you might go to high school or even middle school and you're required to take certain science classes like chemistry, physics. Biology, that sort of thing. Well, at the time, women were directed towards sort of more home economics type stuff where whereas boys were expected to take sciences because they were the ones who were going to grow up to be the scientists.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
On the other one, are we counting airports or are we not counting airports?
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So the states I have not been to, Alaska and Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Wisconsin.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Yeah, it's all those sort of Northwest Pacific coasts. I would love to go to all those places because I've heard they're all incredible places.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
In Michigan, I've only been to the airport, which is why I asked that question.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
We've only been to the airport. I would love to go to Michigan.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Minneapolis, St. Paul, Sophie. I also walked across the bridge between Fargo and Minnesota. So whatever the town is across the river from Fargo, I've been there too. All right, we're going to have to come visit all you guys in all these states. So let me get those invitations together. Okay, well, look, I think if you haven't heard this case, I'm sure you're already fascinated by it.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Like I said, ABC has a really great, I think it's a five-part, relatively short, deep dive on this case. Very enjoyable, radioactive, the Karen Silkwood mystery. There's a movie with Meryl Streep in it. She plays Karen Silkwood. from the early 80s. I think Cher's in the movie too. So check that out. I think it won an Oscar or Meryl Streep got nominated for an Oscar. I don't know.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
This is one of those stories that I feel like in the 70s and 80s, everybody knew. And now, I don't know if many of you have heard of it at all. The only reason I've heard of it is because somebody... Wanted us to cover this. This isn't one of those. Somebody emailed and said, Hey, check this out and checked it out. I was like, wow, this is really interesting. So that's why we're here.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But that wasn't her. She was sort of a trailblazer. And as part of that, she's really interested in this thing that a lot of people would say, why are you here? You know, girls don't do science, but she was. And she was talented so much so that she received a full scholarship to study medical technology at Lamar College in Beaumont, Texas, which once again was a rare feat for a woman at that time.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So be that person. She does an email prosecutors pod at gmail.com. That is the very best way to suggest cases. Reach out to us on Twitter slash X. Facebook on the gallery, Instagram, even TikTok, such that it is. Reach out to us in all those places. We'd love to hear from you. And don't forget, we've got the substack going. A lot of great stuff being written on there by both us and other people.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
I hope you'll check it out. True Crime Times. Links are all over the place. So take a look out for that. You'll enjoy that. Okay, Alice. Well, anything else before we sign off?
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Let's do it. All right. We'll be back next week with part two of this story. But until then, I'm Brett and I'm Alice and we are the prosecutors.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
There's a lot. I have a complex theory. So...
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And I think this also speaks to her character because you got to have some fight to do that. Right. I mean, to be somebody who's willing to do the things that no one expects you to do. And not only do they not expect you to do, but they kind of look down on. They discourage you. They're like, why are you doing this? But she kept pushing forward.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And you're going to see that that's a through line in this story. She never backs down and she keeps pushing, even when people are trying to stop her. Now, when she was only 18, she met an oil pipeline worker named Bill Meadows. And like so many of us, love derails our previous plans. A year later, she's 19. She drops out of college so that she can marry Bill. Now, I know this is kind of funny.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
They're 19 and 18. And this just tells you how things are different, I guess, in like the early 60s. Yeah, because they were 19 and 18, even though they're adults, no one would marry them. They basically were like, we'll only marry you with your parents permission. And both sets of parents said no. We're not going to give you permission to do this.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So like many young couple before them, they just said, OK, never mind. We'll just be in a sort of common law marriage situation. They don't actually get married. They just live together as a married couple. And for all practical purposes, they are sort of common law spouses. We should do a legal brief on common law marriage at some point. No, it doesn't really exist. It's kind of not a real thing.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
People talk about it all the time, but it's kind of fake.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
We just lost the, you know, who knows? We thought we had recorded that certificate. It's like adverse possession of relationships. Pretty much. And how if you hold yourself out to be married, I know this is a complete aside, but if you hold yourself out to be married enough, it's like estoppel. You're treated as if you're married. You can't just all of a sudden say, nevermind, we're not married.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
All this property is mine. And the court's like, no, we're going to treat you as if you were married for the purposes of your separation or whatever. Anyways, but they were common law spouses and, you know, married life started off exciting. By the time Karen was only 24 years old, she had welcomed three children. Christy, Michael, and Dawn.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But probably not surprising, the marriage that started at 18 and 19 between sort of a fiery young lady interested in science and a guy working in the oil fields had some issues. And they had a tumultuous relationship. And it reached a point where it just wasn't working anymore. There were issues.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
karen would attempt to leave bill and he would sort of go get her and force her to come back into the relationship which once again it's the 60s it's just not that uncommon a lot of debate over exactly what was going on in this relationship was it abusive but what i think everyone agrees on is at some point bill started cheating on karen and at that point he was fine with her going he moved on to another woman and he was fine with going but
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And we are the prosecutors. today on The Prosecutors. How far will a corporation go to hide its secrets? And how far will one woman go to uncover them? Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my radioactive co-host, Alice. Alice, you practically glow.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
But one thing he was not fine with was her taking the kids. So she was sort of in a really terrible position where Bill is ready to kick her to the curb, but he wants to keep the kids. And she really has no choice. But she ends up leaving. Bill keeps the kids. And she, frankly... doesn't really even get to know her children.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
Like her children who are still alive today and are still sort of investigating what eventually happens to her, never really had a relationship with her because of this broken family, an early tragedy in her life.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
And obviously quite the coincidence. She's on her way to talk to a New York Times reporter when she dies in this accident. What the highway patrol would say was an accident. And it's not difficult to understand why a lot of people immediately question that. And Alice mentioned she's a member of the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers Union. The atomic workers part was sort of a recent addition.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
These were oil well workers. This is a heavily male dominated union, a male dominated field. Same thing with the atomic workers. There weren't that many women working there. And in fact, she was the first woman in leadership in the oil, chemical and atomic workers union. I mean, this is this is the kind of person who is a hero in the labor movement.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
A lot of people in the labor movement know about her. There are songs about her sort of those, you know, like. Labor union songs are kind of like Irish songs like right together. There's all these labor songs. They all sound like they're sung by somebody like Joan Baez in the 60s. Right. They've all got that feeling. And there's one about her.
The Prosecutors
295. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 1 of 2 -- Radioactive
So this is somebody she really makes her mark and people remembered her. And for the last 50 years. Because this happened 50 years ago last November. People have been debating. Was this an accident? Or was she killed before she could reveal the secrets that she knew?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, we conclude our look at the Pablo Velez case. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my hermosa co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And then they can find out.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Just by coming here. So I do want to say today our episode with Allison Sweeney came out, which was awesome. Thank you so much to her for doing it. I'm not exactly sure when this episode will air, but if you're listening to this, her latest movie on Hallmark Mystery, Reality Bites, a Hannah Swenson mystery, is coming out Thursday, February 6th at 8 p.m. Eastern time. So I hope you'll watch that.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And from reading the briefs, some of the briefs, this is obviously something that's raised in the ineffective assistance of counsel aspect of this case. Pablo essentially says that, you know, he wasn't expecting to testify. He wasn't ready to testify. And it was a difficult process because he'd never testified before. He's getting asked his questions. Sometimes he's getting confused.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
He's trying to figure out exactly what he's being asked. And that kind of thing makes you look like you're
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
maybe making things up or holding things back or you don't answer the question right like all that sort of stuff because as alice said and as we've mentioned many times one of the things the jury is doing that is very difficult to account for in a podcast is looking at the person testifying reading their behavior and making a judgment about whether or not that person is telling them the truth it's a very human thing that we do every day and it's something juries do
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Are you telling me the truth or not? And that's hard to reflect in a cold transcript. But you really, for that reason, want to prep your witnesses. You want to prep all of them, but especially your client, your defendant. He's going to testify. He needs to be ready. He needs to be ready. He needs to know exactly what you're going to ask him. So at least his direct is good.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Cross-examination is what it is, but at least on direct, you want him to be confident, strong, answering the questions directly and clearly. And Pablo had no opportunity for that. So this is a real sort of bad moment for him in the trial. And particularly in a case where there's not a lot of evidence against him, as we've said before, and as a lot of appellate courts will say,
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Juries can make a decision that you're guilty if you testify based solely on that. They listen to you testify. They listen to you say you didn't do it and they didn't believe you. And that was enough for them. So this was bad. I mean, this was a huge mistake. And frankly, there was some good testimony from those witnesses who came back the next day and testified. It wasn't worth it.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
If you got arrest, you got arrest. He would have been better off doing that.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
I can't remember which trial we were watching, but there was some trial where it seemed like this is exactly what was happening. Like they, we were there watching a trial or there was a business questions and it was just like, yeah, and it just went on and on. And you're like, what is going on here?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
It was actually, it might've been Richard Allen. I'm not sure. It was one of those.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
I think it might have been Richard Allen.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And I think the reason was they didn't have another witness ready. And so they needed to get to the end because they probably figured if it was Richard Allen, that Judge Goal was the kind of judge who would say, call your next witness, arrest your case. And this is one of those things we talk about. People on Twitter and everything else just have no conception of how judges really are.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
We'll probably check it out. We will certainly check it out as well. I forget his name. It's like Bert Raleigh or something. He's very attractive.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
The things that judges do and can do and are perfectly legal would make the average person on Twitter think there's a conspiracy here, how awful this judge is. And this judge in particular was very short with the defense. I mean, this was a judge who did not, I don't think he or she, I think it was he, did not like the defense attorney and thought the defense attorney was not a very good lawyer.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
It's evident from the transcript. And I think that's why this happened. And it was perfectly within the judge's purview as the person who controls the trial to tell him this. Call your next witness or rest your case. We're not recessing. And that's what happened. So let's talk about Mario Superman Sosa.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
So this is one of those things that came out many years later that you see in a lot of these cases. Apparently, there was a man named Mario Sosa who was interviewed by the police about the shooting. Mario, Superman, Sosa, identified Ronald Strandberg as and Richard Shorty Cisneros as the shooters.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
But Sosa told the police that he would not testify because he knew if he did testify, his family would be killed. Now this is, I mean, that should not be surprising to anyone. Remember, These people are members of a gang.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Brilliant. Brilliant. He's just amazing. So definitely watch that. But, you know, as much fun as that was, Alice, I missed you. I hope next time that Allison comes on the show, you can be on the show as well.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
They take this very seriously to the point that the victim, we talked about this last week, the victim, when he testified, lied on the stand about what had happened, lied on the stand about who did it and later admitted to that because he had survived that shooting. He didn't want to get shot again. So this person, you know, he says, look, this is who did it, but I'm not going to testify.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
So Officer King was one of the investigators on this case. And at trial, he was asked if anyone had identified other shooters during the investigation. And he said no. But in his notebook, he wrote the following notes. Ron driving gold Cadillac. Possibly Ron shot Emerson. A source wrote a letter documenting everything and hid it. If anything happens, the letter will be mailed in.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Shorty has everyone scared. So this is in this officer's notebook. The officer who testified, the officer who said never happened, didn't talk to anybody who had any other suspects. And you'll all be shocked to know this evidence was never turned over to the defense, however incompetent they are.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And I will just tell you, reading this, I'm very surprised that this has not led to a vacation of this conviction. I mean, this is this is very clearly this is actually Brady material.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
So we've seen, you know, you think about the so-called Brady material in the Adnan Syed case where somebody's wife calls and tells the prosecutor something the prosecutor told the defense attorney who then told her husband and then he told her. So it's like this circle of information that isn't actually anything. And that's called Brady material that we need a new trial for. This is...
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
I mean, this is damning Brady material. Someone should be prosecuted, sued. Withholding this kind of information is astonishing to me, particularly because it is so believable. The police know this. They know that this kind of stuff happens. They know that these kind of threats are made. And it's remarkable to me that they would have this information and continue down the path they went anyway.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And the fact that they didn't turn it over to me is a pretty straightforward, clear, easy violation. But to this point, it has not led to any kind of relief for Pablo. And I think the reason probably is, as we've talked about before, it is really hard to make out a Brady claim because it's a balancing thing.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
You have to show that this new evidence was so powerful that if known, would have overcome what you had. And I'm not exactly sure why. What happened here, just because a lot of the court opinions are not available, you know, they're not published, so it's hard to find them.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
But if I had to imagine when this was presented, I assume what the court said was you had a positive identification of Pablo by someone who was there. The gold Cadillac, which was in his name, he testified. And the jury was entitled to disbelieve him. This person, even though they said this stuff that was helpful to Pablo, also said they would not testify.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
So how valuable is it really to the defense? These are the kind of arguments that the state would have made for why it's not Brady material. But I'll just say this. There's the legal argument and there's sort of your duty. And we've talked about this a lot. That legal argument may be 100 percent accurate, but I go back to the when we talked to Arlinda about the whole Baldwin trial.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
You know, these prosecutors and these police officers also have just an independent responsibility not to prosecute the wrong guy. And I feel like you have somebody come in and tell you this. It should really give you pause about continuing that prosecution.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And this is the point where typically my critics would say, I now am going to make excuses for the prosecutor or the police. Because ordinarily what I would do is sort of what Alice did. I think it's really important when we talk about these cases, it is so easy to demonize people. Think about all those cases of missing and murdered indigenous women where we're dealing with RCMP.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah, and so we've done two episodes on this. I hope you guys are starting to understand what happened that night. But just to give you sort of, once again, a little bit of a rundown, because I know it's a little confusing, as these kind of things can be. Basically, you have these two groups of people. You have this individual, Adrian Payen.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
It would just be really easy just to be like, look, the RCMP is evil and they're just a bunch of corrupt jerks and they should be disbanded, right? That'd be really easy to do. I think much more effective and much more, if you want to actually have constructive change, try and figure out why these things happened and why these people did what they did and see if you can fix it.
The Prosecutors
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Could be things like lack of resources, that kind of thing. I think that's very important. And I think Alice just made a really good point. It's very easy in affidavits to be very black and white. However, in this case, I think there is reason to believe this is exactly what happened. You see recantations all the time, right?
The Prosecutors
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And oftentimes they are absolute crap to the point that the courts don't really take recantations seriously because it's so easy. I mean, you know, 20 years ago you testified the guy did it. Then you have some advocate come along and say, oh, you know, You know, it's been 20 years, so the perjury statute of limitations has passed.
The Prosecutors
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So now if you say he didn't do it, you get him out of jail and there'll be no consequences. And all of a sudden they recant. Right. And is that a real recantation or is it a false recantation? You can have false recantations just like you can have false confessions. However, in this case... Number one, Claudia's recantation is immediate. Yes, we have this affidavit.
The Prosecutors
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But remember, when she testifies on the stand, she doesn't testify it was Pablo. She is testifying consistent with what she says in her affidavit. And the other thing that happened that makes me think she did have this conversation. Was Eileen Bogar surprised when she did that on the stand? No, she wasn't.
The Prosecutors
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As a matter of fact, she told the jury in openings that she expected that the witness would not actually identify Pablo. She had had this conversation with Claudia. That's how she knew that you wouldn't say that otherwise. And when she got up on the stand and said that, you would be shocked. And you'd be fumbling all over yourself. She knew that she was going to say it wasn't Pablo.
The Prosecutors
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They had had this conversation and she had prepared a backup plan on how to deal with it if she didn't just go along with what she'd said before. So I think this is absolutely what happened. I think this is the kind of recantation that has all sorts of support for it because it's not one that happened years later. It was one that happened at trial.
The Prosecutors
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So let's talk about Christopher Newby. Christopher Newby is actually a new witness and he submitted an affidavit as well. He said in his affidavit that he knew Ron and Shorty and that they were the shooters that night. He said he also knew Pablo, but he did not see him at the perfect rack.
The Prosecutors
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He said in his affidavit that he never reached out to police because he knew the reputations of the shooters and he did not want to be viewed as a snitch. Now, this kind of affidavit, ordinarily, I would not give much credence to just because anybody can submit an affidavit 20 years later to help out a buddy and say, well, I was there. I saw it. Sorry. But there's a couple of things about it.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
He gets beaten up by Jason Woolley, Richard Shorty Cisneros, and Ron Strandberg at a bar. The next night, he basically gets called back to the bar by his girlfriend, Claudia, who says, hey, the guys who beat you up are here. And he's smart enough to know three on one didn't work out last time. So he brings a few friends. So now it's Adrian, it's Esteban Rodriguez, and it's Emerson Bjorquez.
The Prosecutors
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Number one, it's consistent with what other people have said. With who the shooters would have been. And number two, his reason for not coming forward is consistent with other things we've heard that witnesses were afraid.
The Prosecutors
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And remember, when we went through the timeline, we mentioned that incident after the perfect rack where there was a shooting and some people got beaten up and there was no report ever made. But what were we told was happening there? Ron and Shorty were threatening witnesses who had been at the perfect rack. All of that fits with what Christopher Newby is saying.
The Prosecutors
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So even though in isolation, his affidavit might not be all that convincing, I think given the other evidence in the case, it feels much more likely to be true than maybe what you would ordinarily see.
The Prosecutors
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And yeah, and this is another one that in a different circumstance, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into. If this were just Jason Woolley and another gang member who's also in prison and he's willing to take the hit, you see that happen all the time. You see members of gangs will take the hit for other members of gangs, particularly higher ranked members of gangs.
The Prosecutors
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Say they were the lone shooter when there were obviously two people involved. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
These three guys show up, but unfortunately, what was a fight the night before becomes a shootout this night. There are at least three people shooting. One person is killed, and eventually Pablo Velez is identified by that girlfriend, Claudia, as one of the shooters. And we've been going through whether or not Pablo was actually involved. And let's talk about the forensics in this case.
The Prosecutors
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
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Remember, we already know there are three people who were involved in this incident before. So what are we looking at here? Well, as you might expect, there were three clusters of bullets. One was a 9mm casing, and this was actually the shot fired by Jason Woolley.
The Prosecutors
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Remember, he actually fires a gun into the ground as this confrontation is beginning, and that's what started the shooting from everyone else. There were also .223 casings. I think this is .556, if you guys are into guns, the NATO round, sort of what you see often in rifles, sort of long rifles, you would expect that.
The Prosecutors
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Yeah, under 20% chance, but a not insignificant chance that she's going to pick him randomly. And if you look at the picture of Shorty Cisneros, as we've put up and as we'll put on the website next to him, they look very similar. And they didn't use a full body. They just used his face.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
So that coincidence, which seems so compelling at first, and I thought was compelling at first when I first looked at this case, I was like, ah. When you look at it, when you put any amount of a microscope on it, all of a sudden it starts to fall apart. I do think it falls apart in this case. And I'll just tell you, we've done a lot of these cases, several people that we think are innocent.
The Prosecutors
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Pablo is the most innocent of anyone we've done. Like, I just, I see this case and it just seems to me this is so obviously a wrongful conviction. It's so obviously a situation where I think the police basically were like, hey, there were three shooters. We know one guy, the guy who shot into the ground. We know him absolutely. We think Ron Strandberg was there.
The Prosecutors
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We think Shorty Cisneros was there, but we can't prove it. But we got somebody saying Pablo was there and Pablo is a son of a drug dealer. So by goodness, great opportunity to get a bad guy off the street. A little shaky, but that's fine. We'll let the jury decide. Right. And they rolled with it and he gets convicted and they all went home feeling fine because he's a bad guy anyway.
The Prosecutors
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We see a group of these casings, and in fact, that was fired by the blue-shirted shooter in the north of the parking lot. And this is the individual that Claudia will later identify as the Pablo. And there's a cluster of .40 caliber pistol rounds. These were most likely fired by Ron Strandberg because they match his gun and thereby parked cars on the south end of the parking lot.
The Prosecutors
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And that's how a wrongful conviction happens. And I think that's how this wrongful conviction happened here. I don't really have any doubt that Pablo is innocent. He currently, as we speak, is up for parole. I think his parole will be decided in April. And we can hope that he'll at least be paroled and released.
The Prosecutors
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But that's not going to change the fact that he spent 20 years in prison for a crime that I think is evident he didn't commit. Alice, you want to tell me why I'm wrong?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
That's it. I think Alice is right. It is say we don't spend more time on it. And I'll say we received an email from Lisa Martinez, who is Pablo's advocate three or four years ago about this case. And we get emails all the time from people who want us to cases, people who want to look into convictions, everything else and put them on the list, move on.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And at some point came back to this case and started looking at it and realized, oh, you know, wish we'd have done this one earlier. Right. Not like making a difference as doing it. But nevertheless, I mean, I think it's always good to bring attention to these cases. I mentioned Lisa.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Lisa is going to write an article for the True Crime Times, which is our sub stack that we've talked about, should be out as this episode is coming out. So check that out. to see that she's been working on Pablo's case for a long time. As we always say, we want you guys to look at the primary documents. Those are harder to find in this case than some of the other ones. This case is not famous.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
As I said, a lot of the information is not out there. We'll link to a bunch of different stuff. There's a Facebook page that has a lot of information on this. We have access to a Google drive that has basically everything in this case. I'm going to see whether or not that's something we can put up or not. People don't always like to do that. Just make it public, public.
The Prosecutors
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But if it is, we'll put it up on the website or link to it on the website. Read it for yourself. Look for yourself and read the same testimony we talked about. The trial wasn't that long. You could read this trial in an afternoon. Look at it for yourself. See what you think. Read the affidavits. And I think you'll find that this is a case that is an actual wrongful conviction.
The Prosecutors
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So basically, you've got this situation where there are people in three different areas of this bar. We talked about this before. Was this an ambush? It kind of feels like it was because you have people at different positions sort of lined up to be shooting into the interior of this area.
The Prosecutors
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And it's one that needs to be, something needs to happen in this case. I mean, the least of which is Pablo needs to be paroled this year. And got a lot of people listening to the show in Texas.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And I hope somebody who's listening in Texas has a little bit of influence because if you're looking for a case where you can do actual justice and release someone who's actually not guilty and not be concerned about putting a murderer back on the streets, this is the case. All right.
The Prosecutors
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Well, Alice, do you have anything else you want to say about this case before we move on to the rest of the evening?
The Prosecutors
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And this is ironic, but I'm going to say it anyway. We've actually seen this recently. Those of you who follow some of the goings on in Washington, we're currently at the end of President Biden's term as we discuss this. And President Biden, in one of his last acts, commuted a bunch of death penalty sentences. Well, two of the people.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
All of them, except for like the people we really don't like. One or two. Sorry, basically everybody. New process problem there, right? Like, you guys, you're cool. You're cool. F you. That's basically what he said. But anyway, two of the people that were commuted are refusing the commutation.
The Prosecutors
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And their argument is, well, they claim they're really innocent. I have no idea if they are not going to go to them and say they're probably not. But nevertheless, they are saying they're innocent. And they say, look, as long as I'm on death row, I have so much more access to resources because I'm on death row and people want to keep me from being executed. So they want to fight for my innocence.
The Prosecutors
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And we see this with the Innocence Project all the time. They might as well change their name to the Anti-Death Penalty Project. Because right now what they're doing is everybody who's up for for the death penalty, they just come out and say they're innocent. And it doesn't matter what the evidence is against them.
The Prosecutors
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You know, we have to go through a week of Facebook posts about how Missouri is about to execute an innocent person. South Carolina is about to execute an innocent person. They literally did one. In South Carolina, where they claimed the guy was innocent, even though he had murdered his cellmate while in prison for the murder for which he was getting executed. It's like, he is not innocent.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
You may hate the death penalty. This is not the guy. But they will defend you if you're on death row. Pablo didn't get the death penalty. He got 30 years in prison. And so I feel like he has fallen through the cracks of the innocence project and people who fight for that. Yeah. He just falls through the cracks because he didn't get the death penalty.
The Prosecutors
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He's just not worth the resources. And I have no doubt that the Texas Innocence Project right now is representing some of the worst people in the world simply because they're on death row. And they need to put some of their resources towards people like Pablo because he is actually innocent. And I don't care if he's not going to get the death penalty. He should not be where he is.
The Prosecutors
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You also had some .40 caliber bullets that were on the ground that appeared to be as if someone was chasing Adrian. Remember, Adrian's the one who got beaten up and sort of firing at him as he's running away. So you've got Ron Strandberg, a gun that matches him. You have Jason. who is firing his gun into the ground, right? So we know those two people are two of the shooters.
The Prosecutors
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And it's just unfortunate that he doesn't. I mean, he's just forgotten. You know, if it hadn't been for Lisa Martinez, we wouldn't even know about this case. But here we are. And like I said, hopefully in a couple months, we're going to have good news for all of you and a follow up. But we're just going to have to see whether or not we do or not. OK, that's enough ranting on my part.
The Prosecutors
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Alice, do you want to answer a question?
The Prosecutors
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And Sally Sue wants to know, what did your respective spouses say when you said you were starting the Prosecutors Podcast? And why did they call you crazy?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
They may have called us crazy. And then the second question. Go ahead. The second question, how did your respective spouses react when you said you were going to also do the prosecutor's legal briefs? And why did they accuse you of having a midlife crisis? And then they might've asked you, Alice, when you decided to do two additional podcasts, Are you insane? Are you literally insane?
The Prosecutors
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Exactly, that's the problem. It's not so much that it's a full-time job, it's that we have two now, at least.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah, exactly. And speaking of spouses, I have to ask Alice what I should call my third podcast that I guess I have to do now. Because in April, we're having a baby. Number three.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Little girl. We're all very excited. Mostly her older sister and brother cannot wait for her to arrive. So, you know, it's going to be another interesting time. Why not? Now we're up to seven children between us.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
surprise surprise but you know what's really important the podcast will be fine it will continue as it always does continue along we don't know how but it will yeah and i just i obviously ask for all your prayers and support because last time was was you know a little bit of an ordeal a lot of an ordeal as alice knows so we're hoping for much smoother this time but we'll see
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
I was telling my wife, it used to be we just, you know, we pack one bag and we go get to the airport right before the plane took off. You know, no biggie. Now I'm that dad who wants to get there like at least three hours early.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And now I am going to need to get a Odyssey now.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Well, you know, my wife was test driving cars today. So if you want to go with her.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
You can never have too many Odysseys. You know, what did you what do you have now?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
The Hotlander? The Hotlander.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And the question is, was there a third and who was the third? Now, Claudia saw two shooters. She actually believed that Jason fired more than one shot into the ground and then chased Adrian, continuing to fire at him. This didn't happen because Jason, we know, was firing a 9mm. So it seems much more likely is that... it was someone else.
The Prosecutors
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So you're the one who told her that.
The Prosecutors
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I can't think of anything to call it. A hot vo, doesn't work.
The Prosecutors
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The problem is I was going to name my daughter Brittany, but you stole the name.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Why not? Absolutely. Anyway. Well, thank you guys for all your support. Thank you, Alice, for all your support. You know, we're all doing this together, right? We're just getting through it together.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
But we are in the pits right now. Your fifth podcast should be, we just sit around and talk about life.
The Prosecutors
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That means you have to have a fifth child too.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Would you guys listen to our lifestyle podcast? You know, we do all these ads for lifestyle podcasts and they're like, I talk about my day with my friends and my love life and all this other stuff. And I'm like, who listens? Not, you know, I'm sorry if that's one of the ads on this. It's like, who listens to this stuff? But apparently a lot of people.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah, there you go. We just transitioned into Parenting Podcasts.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Now, one possibility could be that Woolley fired the 9mm from a .40 caliber pistol. This is something people have suggested and continued firing these .40 calibers. This fits Claudia's memory and would fit the distribution of the rounds. This would be a very strange thing to do.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah, exactly. You can feel free to tell everybody else too. It doesn't matter to me. I don't keep things secret like Alice does.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Well, I think when you had Brittany, didn't we go to an event with some listeners and you were very pregnant?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah. You were very pregnant.
The Prosecutors
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It was at a bar and you were drinking.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
That's the secret is Alice. Alice drinks all the time. You guys. I don't. It's always water. This is our.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
That's the true conspiracy.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
We need to let Podcast One know. Like, by the way, in case you didn't know. We have a lot of babies up in here.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
You know, we got you, baby. We need more.
The Prosecutors
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Prosa parenting. Prosa parenting.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
My kids are all about putting people in jail now. It's like they're big.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Well, this is all fodder for podcast number three, Prosa Parenting.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah. Well. Maybe. Either way. We're going to do another show next week. I have no idea what it's going to be about. Couldn't tell you. Haven't even thought about it.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you all for following on this. Keep Pablo in your prayers, too, as he goes through this process of getting parole. We will let you know if we hear anything about that. All right, Alice. Well, do you have anything else you want to add? I assume no, but I'll let you say whatever you want.
The Prosecutors
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It is theoretically possible to fire a 9mm bullet from a .40 caliber gun, but it's not something you'd recommend to anyone. It can damage the gun.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Well, we will be back next week with a mystery. Just not sure what it is. In fact, it's a mystery even to us. But until then, I'm Brett.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And we are the prosecutors.
The Prosecutors
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Next week, I'm going to miss out on some stuff.
The Prosecutors
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I am. I am. Well, I started on vacation because I don't like to drink when I'm skiing.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Well, that's true. It's never stopped me before. But I don't know about other people, but, like, if I lived at altitude, I'd weigh 150 pounds because I can't eat. I don't like to drink. The only thing I want to do is drink water and catering.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
in the way that blows up and kills you so you don't normally want to do that it's a very strange thing to do there's no reason to think he would do that and since we have someone who's firing 40 caliber rounds it's much more likely that jason woolley he fires that one bullet into the ground maybe he chased after adrian but he wasn't shooting and ron was the one who was shooting and that's why we see all these 40 caliber rounds but the real question that we're concerned with here is who was shooting the 223
The Prosecutors
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It really is. For me. More power to you people who love the, who are all about the, what is it? I pray, I pre-ski. Yeah. It's like, how about what's after? Going to the bar, going to the lodge and drinking.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Exactly. A s'more. Dude, I just chug Gatorade the whole time.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Who was the one with that third weapon, the blue-shirted individual? And it either is Shorty Cisneros or Pablo Velez Jr. The prosecution would eventually say it was Pablo who had shown up after working and apparently engaged in this shootout. And I guess Shorty Cisneros, he was there, but he was just the one person who wasn't shooting.
The Prosecutors
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And let me just say this, because it is confusing whenever we talk about guns in those different rounds. The most important thing here is there are three separate types of bullets, which indicates three shooters. There were three people involved in the fight the night before.
The Prosecutors
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In order to believe that Pablo was one of the shooters, you have to believe that Pablo showed up to join the other three in what seems to be an ambush, but one of the original three doesn't have a gun.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Pablo does, but one of the original three, apparently Shorty Cisneros, doesn't have a gun, and Pablo, who wasn't even involved in the fight the night before, is the one who brings a gun and starts shooting. It would seem more likely, if you're calling in extra backup, that there would have been four guns, because you want the most people shooting to ensure that you accomplish your objective.
The Prosecutors
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And look, this is the problem with alibis. And we see this in every case that involves an alibi, is when you're relying on people's memories, everything gets confusing. And you see Enel doing what you want people to do when they're trying to remember. She's looking for sort of guideposts to hitch her memory to.
The Prosecutors
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So, you know, if we'd done that, I would have done it on a night that I could have didn't have to go to work tomorrow. Now, she says that, and that makes sense in hindsight. Does that necessarily mean she was thinking that that night when he showed up at her house? I don't know. You know, then there's the whole it happened around a phone call.
The Prosecutors
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Well, that's the opposite of what she thinks, because she's saying this was late in the month. But that phone call happened right around when the conversation would have occurred. And so you're trying to figure this out. And the prosecution is obviously saying, look, this is him trying to cover up what happened. He is trying to build an alibi. But also recall this. What is actually happening here?
The Prosecutors
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At some point after this murder, Pablo is going to realize that he is a target of the investigation. You know, I mean, at some point the police are going to show up and start asking him about his cold car. And what is he going to do? What does any person do in that situation? They start thinking back, man, what was I doing on that night? Right. And then he thinks he went over to her house.
The Prosecutors
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Now, whether he did or not, I don't think that's something that was nefarious that he would say that. I mean, we know this was at least a few weeks later. I mean, in her telling the conversation doesn't happen until July 29th. Right. So he's trying to remember back to a night if he didn't do it, which was completely innocuous for him. Right. It wouldn't have been a big deal.
The Prosecutors
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It was just another night that he got home from his trucking thing. And then he went over to her house and they had this conversation. So I don't think you can say he's trying to create an alibi here, even if he's wrong. And certainly her memory is not that great either. And look, she's his ex-girlfriend. She's not happy with him.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
In the post-conviction stuff, there was obviously a lot of ineffective assistance to counsel claims. And Pablo had actually told his attorney, look, you really need to work on this witness because they're going to call her and she's mad at me. They had broken up for a reason, and you probably won't be surprised to find out it was because Pablo had cheated on her, right?
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
And now he's trying to get her back, but she's not interested in it. So she's very angry. She's not inclined to help him, and she doesn't help him. But we see this all the time. With these alibis, alibis are a mirror. You see in them whatever you want to see, right? Like if you're somebody who wants to believe somebody's innocent, you'll look at the alibi and you'll say...
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
rock solid and if you want to believe someone's guilty you'll look at the alibi and say there's so many holes in that there's no way we see this in every case with alibis and it happened here but here it was another thing that helped the jury get to guilty because it made it seem like he was trying to fabricate an alibi to get off from this crime and obviously her testimony i think was pretty damning to him now let's talk a little bit about his background
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Pablo, he was a hardworking guy. He had no criminal record, but he was not an angel. He had been to the Perfect Rack, and probably evident to you now, that was a gang hangout. There were a lot of different gangs. There were a lot of fights, shootouts. I mean, this was just something that happened at the Perfect Rack, and he'd been there a couple times at least.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
His dad may have been a cocaine dealer. In fact, the only arrest on Pablo's record, he had been at his father's house when there was some sort of big drug bust of his father. And he was temporarily arrested. He was released. Didn't have anything to do with it. But nevertheless, he has this close connection to his father. And I will tell you, I am certain.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
I'm not going to say Spanish is easy because no other language is easy for me, but Spanish is a little bit easier than some of the things people throw at me, like Dutch and Russian and Chinese and everything else. It's like, oh my goodness.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
that law enforcement viewed Pablo as sort of someone who is probably engaged in all sorts of criminal activity, but we haven't been able to get him yet. You know, he's Pablo Velez Jr., so Pablo Velez Sr., big drug trafficker, what are the chances? Pablo's not involved, right? So this is something that would have automatically put him on the radar.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
Now, he had sold his car to Ron Strandberg, who is once again a member of a gang, and sort of a violent person, but he'd never transferred the deeds. And he was apparently willing to report the car stolen without verifying that it was actually stolen. And then when Ron was like, never mind, you know, he didn't think anything of that. He did have a gun. It was legally owned.
The Prosecutors
291. The Wrongful Conviction of Pablo Velez, Jr Part 3 of 3
It wasn't the gun used in the shooting. And as we said, you know, he'd been cheating on his girlfriend. He was out on the town, right? In other words, he's just the kind of person you would expect would get tagged in a crime like this a crime that he didn't actually commit. He sort of fits the mold for what you would expect to see if you're looking for an actually innocent person.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
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The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Beam made it so much easier, and I was able to wake up energized, not groggy.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And when I say in-depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, and student-to-teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So, when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Holmes.com. We've done your homework. Okay, so that's sort of Damien and that sort of stuff. Like I said, we'll talk more about this later when we're talking about victimology and everything else and profiles of the offender. So February 1993.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So after this, Damien, he gets out of this facility, not necessarily saying that he is the subject of what occurs here, but this was testified to at trial. So three months before the murders, a man dressed entirely in black pulled into the driveway of Chris Byer's house in a green car. He got out with a camera, and he took a picture of Chris. At the time, Chris's parents were gone.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
They had gone to the store to buy some cigarettes and I think some milk, maybe. They had come back, and this occurred while they were gone. And Chris immediately runs out to them and is like, Mommy, Mommy, this strange man was taking my picture.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This becomes significant later on and there's a reason that it's in the trial because there is talk of photographs of the victims and whether or not those were available to the people who would eventually be convicted of the crime.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So this case is difficult because despite what people will tell you, the police interviewed a ton of people. And a lot of them were interviewed after the three were arrested. And I don't buy into the whole, you know, Damien says that West Memphis was the second Salem, right? That's his take on this. But once they were arrested, everybody had a story.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Everybody had a story about a time Damien was hiding in the bushes or he was following them or he said he was going to kill him or he did this or he did that. And trying to determine whether those stories are true or false is very difficult. She and her parents both say this was something that they reported contemporaneously with the event.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
The whole like she could hear him in her mind thing is something that is reported later on. But this also is consistent with some of the things people were saying about Damien at the time, because very much the kids in high school and the people in the community believe Damien Echols was basically a Satanist, a devil worshiper. He probably could control people's minds. Right.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So they talked about this kind of stuff. And the whole next victim thing, it seems like everybody in West Memphis thought they were the next victim. There was this whole story that Damien, he needed to kill, like, I forget how many people, five, seven, nine people or something. If he killed that many people, he'd become a god.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And, you know, they were going to be the next ones, or these other people were going to be the next ones. So you have to take a lot of this with a grain of salt. We're going to report on a lot of it just because it's in the file. We're not going to tell you everything.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
We're not going to give you every single story of somebody at the bowling alley or at the softball field who Damien appeared, turned into a bat and flew away or whatever. We're not going to do that, but we are going to share some of this with you. Just to give you an idea of sort of what the mentality was of people in the area at the time.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And one thing that I think is difficult to overstate, but is often understated, is the just inherent violence of this society that these kids are growing up in. The South in the early 90s in the rural areas, lower middle class areas, they were rough. There was a lot of domestic violence, and there was just a lot of violence in general. And we're about to see one of those circumstances.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
March 12th, 1993, Jesse Miskelly is accused of punching a 13-year-old girl named Tiffany Allen, no relation to the detective. in the face at a park in West Memphis. Mescali had apparently bragged to his friends that he'd had sex with her. She denied it and slapped Jesse over the accusations. Jesse then went after her. She ran.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
He chased her down and assaulted her, including punching her in the face. This is the kind of thing, this is the kind of environment that all these people are embroiled in. And this is another sort of instance of violence in the history of some of the people who were involved in this crime. So on May 1st, Jason traded some shirts with Kenny Newell for a knife and a mountain climbing pack.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Yeah. And I mean, this is going to be a long one just because of how we're doing it. We're basically doing a full podcast on this and then we're going to deep dive into various aspects of this. So when we finish with what is described as the outline in my files, probably most of you will be satisfied, but we won't be. So we're going to do deep dives into various aspects of it.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
About a week later, according to Kenny, Jason sent his brother Matthew back to trade the knife back to Newell because in his brother's words, They're trying to blame him for using it or something. So this is what Kenny said. This would have been a couple days, three or four days after the murders. Take it for what it's worth. It's a report in the file.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Okay, so now we are getting right up to the crime. And we talk about some of the moments when you're studying these cases that you'd never heard before that kind of slap you in the face. Some of them slap you in the face so hard that you're like, oh, my goodness, they did it. Right. I mean, there are some moments that are just they're so crystallizing and clarifying.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This one for me was really surprising because I had never heard it before. I mean, it's possible people talk about this, but they certainly don't focus on it. I'd never heard about it before. And it immediately struck me as such a critical moment in this case. And I was surprised people don't talk about it. So Tuesday, May 4th, that would be the day before this murder occurs. Damien's mother.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Now remember, Damien has been through it. His parents were married. They divorced when he was young. It really tore him up. He talks to his counselors about how difficult it was for him, how emotional it was for him. He then gets thrown into this new family with Eccles, who he says is abusive to him and to his sister. And, you know, his mom is picking Jack Echols over her kids.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Very difficult situation. There's the whole move to Oregon. There's the move back. Then there's Pamela and Eddie Joe Hutchinson. They get back together, which you would think, given how traumatic it was when they broke up, would have been a really important thing for Damien. Finally, maybe he's got some structure and stability.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But on Tuesday, May 4th, Damien's mother, Pamela, and her husband, Eddie Joe, separated. Hutchinson had wanted his wife's ex-husband, Jack Eccles, not to have anything to do with the children. Not too high an ask, I would think, but she would not accede to this demand, and so he decides he's going to leave. Damien was so upset that he cried throughout the day and the breakup.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Pam stated that Eddie had abandoned them once before when Damien was young, and now it seemed like he was doing it again. By 9 p.m. that night, Eddie was completely moved out. Now, Pamela would tell this story on the 12th of May, so only about eight days later.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Now, months later, once the alibi for Damien becomes important, once I think maybe she recognizes that this is problematic, suddenly the date changes. And she says that actually this separation happened on May 9th. Now, this is a strange change in the story because the first time she told this, was the 12th, only three days later.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So it seems highly unlikely that she would mess up the date a mere three days after it happened, given how significant the event would be. And if you're thinking about sort of what causes people to commit crimes, like the one we're gonna talk about, This kind of jarring personal event is exactly the kind of trigger that you would look for.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And apparently it is something that really bothered Damien. And it is something that you almost never hear discussed.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So I just want to make one point about this day. This day is the most difficult day because it's the day the crime is going to happen. The times are all over the place. This is all based essentially on eyewitness testimony. We talked about this before. Eyewitness testimony is often not very accurate when it comes to time. There will be conflicting times. There will be conflicting stories.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
We're going to tell you multiple times that things happen. We'll try and warn you when that happens. I acknowledge that will be difficult to follow, but we're just trying to give you what the various witnesses are saying. But just know none of these times are going to be exact. And so you got to give some on that.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
You cannot base your opinion on this case because somebody said something happened at 530. You just can't. We're going to give you the best we can. I know it's gonna be hard to follow, but we'll get there.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I do want to say, as we get started, one quick, completely unrelated thing. Today, inconceivable story of Temujin Kinsu came out. It's narrated by Jason Usry, who's done a lot of original reporting in that case. That is a case we covered very early on in our podcast. We have not been shy in saying that we think Timogen is innocent.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Between 12 and 1.30, Jesse Miskelly finishes his job at Woodlawn Roofing. He tells a friend he's going home to get a sandwich. That same friend will see him again at around 3.30 with his girlfriend, Susie Brewer. The last time this friend sees him is at 5.30. At that point, Jesse is alone.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Another friend, Josh Darby, asked Jesse what he was going to do that night, and he told him he was going home.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Ricky Dees who works at West Memphis Framing this roofing job or another roofing job I guess stops by Jesse's home around 1.30 to see if he can help him clean a job site and this is sort of Jesse's deal he's doing these odd jobs he's helping out a lot of manual labor that's how he makes money he isn't going to school his father tells him that Jesse is going to Stephanie Dollar's house and he's gone there to babysit because once again that's another way he makes money is he keeps people's kids
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
At 2.45, Pam Hobbs picks Stevie up from school slightly early. Never been entirely clear to me why she picked him up. She may have said in one of her interviews. Nevertheless, she picks him up at 12.45 and they walk home together. At 3 o'clock, the school bell rings. Michael Moore walks back to his house that backs up to the school. Chris Byers is only a little further away.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Stevie, as we said earlier, lives about a half mile away, and he lives the farthest from the school. Michael goes home and changes into his Cub Scout uniform. His sister gives him permission to go over to Stevie's. So typical day, nice May afternoon. This is the kind of day you're going to go meet up with your friends, play around the neighborhood, and that's what they intend to do.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So if you're somebody who came here because you're interested in this case, because it's an innocence case, check that out. That is one that, you know, this is a case that divides people. Wars have been started over less than this case. But Timogen Kinsu is one that really brings people together. And it's a great podcast. And you should check it out.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And this is something to remember because she tells him this, the 4.30 thing. He's not going to be home by 4.30. And he's almost certainly not deceased by 4.30. And this is something that there is one thing about this entire timeline that fascinates me is it seems like this crime happened pretty late, either in the afternoon or even the early night.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And you've got these kids who are all supposed to be home. Now, granted, look, kids are late all the time. But this is really late. Now, he didn't have a watch and she talks about how she thought he did or she thought Michael had a watch. She thought somebody had a watch and there's a little bit of confusion there.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But the fact that none of the kids really make any effort to go home, I think is interesting. It's one of those things that sort of I wonder why that is.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I have a controversial theory that I'll share later on. Not now. You have to wait. Okay.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So at 3.30, more grain of salt stuff in a questionable sighting. Carrie Morris will claim to see Michael Moore walking down the road a couple of blocks ahead of Damien Echols, who is following him. Once again, this is sort of, you can imagine how this story develops, right? She says that Michael was going to get his bicycle to go trail riding with Stevie Branch.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Okay, with that said, we're back with the West Memphis Three. We were talking about the timeline leading up to this. We focused a lot on the three who will become the West Memphis Three, Damian Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jesse Miskelly, and sort of some of the things they were doing in the lead-up to May of 1993.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
She would reaffirm this sighting in a 2018 Facebook post. So to this day, 2018 is now seven years ago, but nevertheless, we'll say to this day. To this day, she sticks with this. Now, at the time she went to the police with this sighting, she was on the hook for a theft of property charge. So we can imagine how that would be useful to her. That charge was dismissed, which...
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
one month later she didn't testify and in 1996 she would actually catch a three-year prison sentence for accessory after the fact when she helped hide bloody clothes after her husband stabbed another woman to death so as incriminating as this sighting might be and i have seen people who really grab onto this it's like you see he was already stalking them right
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I think this lady's credibility, like a lot of people in this case who have credibility issues, this lady's credibility issues are serious enough that I think we can dispense of this as a valid siding altogether. And it also doesn't really fit with anything else in the timeline.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
If you missed the first episode, we also talked about a lot of the players in this case, the background of this case, so it's worth checking out. But now we're into 1993, which is the year that this murder is going to happen. And I think we're definitely probably going to get to the day of the murder itself, if not through it, in today's episode.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So with all that said, we were in the middle of sort of Damien has had a lot of mental health issues. He has been institutionalized two or three times at this point. And we are going through some of the things that happened while he was institutionalized.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It seems like you remember this. This may seem like a contradiction because during other tellings of the story, Damien and Dami were there watching. And this is often what you'll hear that they were there watching.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But it seems like that probably happened a different time and not this time because Hubert doesn't remember them being there. And he seems to have a pretty good memory of everything that happened that night. So at 4.30, Terry Hobbs arrives home from work. He delivers ice cream, which seems like a pretty cool job to me.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So he delivers ice cream to stores for Memphis ice cream, sort of drives around the tri-state area dropping off ice cream. And he asked Pam Hobbs where Frog Leg was. That was his nickname for Stevie. This goes all the way back, sort of an early event in their relationship when Stevie just jumped into the water as a baby. And he said he looked just like a little frog swimming around in there.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So he always called him Frog Leg. At 445, Pam and Terry ride by Michael Moore's house to see if Stevie is around. He wasn't, and neither was Christopher. Pam had to go to work at Catfish Island, which was a restaurant she worked at. Her shift started at 5.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This is an important thing to remember. A lot of people didn't even have phones. A lot of people didn't have call waiting. Voicemail. They wouldn't beep in. Yeah, voicemail. If you had one phone and somebody called, it was just busy. And so we're going to see that happen a lot and actually becomes pretty important throughout this case.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This one's probably accurate, by the way, because the Scout t-shirt is a very definitive thing.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I just want to point out, we're about to get in a stretch of the timeline where like 10 different things all happen at 530.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
None of which can actually have happened or only one of which can happen.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This seems like such a valid sighting on the surface because of the two boys riding the one bike. Now, you got the four boys. This is the mystery fourth person. But maybe it happened later. I mean, once again, times. Times. I mean, who knows what time it was, right? But this is what he says he saw. OK, now at 530. Now, we've mentioned Jamie Clark Ballard several times.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I just want to note much of her recollection, all of her recollection comes from an affidavit she made 15 years later, very long time after this happened. She was not interviewed by police at the time. This is one of the weaknesses of the police investigation. They essentially interviewed a lot of people sort of north and west. Jamie Clark Ballard lives further south.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
She lives down next to the Hobbs, basically. And everything that she's telling us is her recollection many years later. She basically says, look, nobody ever asked me, so I never said it. A lot of people don't believe her. There are a lot of holes that people punch in her story. We will talk about all that later.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But just know for now, we are just giving you sort of what people say they saw in that day. So Jamie Clark Ballard at 530, she will say in a 2009 affidavit. that she saw the three boys playing in her large backyard. Ballard lived only three doors down from the Hobbs household, which puts them on the other side of the neighborhood from basically all the other sightings, if this is true.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Now, I will note one of the reasons all the other sightings put the kids in the north part is because that's where all the witnesses were interviewed. So maybe if you'd interviewed more people in the south, they would have seen the boys too. How accurate would those have been? I don't know. If you plot all this stuff on a map, she's going to be your outlier. But she's not alone.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Her mother, Deborah Moyer, will say, also in 2009, that around this time, between 530 and 630, she also saw three boys playing in the backyard. It could also be other boys. That's a possibility, too. The backyard ran up to the bayou and did not have a fence. The bayou is that long canal. So she didn't like it when children played there. She was worried they'd get hurt.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This is one of the reasons she remembers this because it caused her anxiety. And she actually decided she was going to say something to the boys about this. At the same time, around 530, Terry Hobbs and his daughter Amanda start looking for Stevie. Remember, Terry has taken his wife. He has dropped her off at the Catfish Island.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Amanda is younger than Stevie, so she can't really just be left alone. So if he's going to drive around and look for Stevie, he's going to need to do it with Amanda. And Stevie was supposed to be home by 430, so he's about an hour late. I don't think at this point Terry is that concerned, but nevertheless, he's out looking for him.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
At the same time, at 530, at the same time all this is happening all over the neighborhood, this did happen. John Mark Byers finds Chris riding his skateboard. And he's riding it in the street. It's very dangerous. He's told him not to do that. And he actually gives him a whipping with his belt for it.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
He then leaves Chris in the carport, which is like, you know, that sort of an overhang where you park your car outside and tells him to clean it up. He says he'll be back after he picks up Ryan. So he's got, you remember, Ryan's testifying in this whole court hearing. He's got to go pick him up.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This absolutely happened, and this really makes you doubt basically every other sighting we just talked about, at least that they happened when we were told they happened. But when Byers returns, Christopher is not at home. And at this point, Byers realizes something is wrong.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
This seems strange to him because he's already punished Chris, and Chris is supposed to be doing this, and Chris is a rambunctious kid. Often described as sort of very energetic and kind of random in his behavior. I think he was on some medication, some Ritalin for that.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And the fact that he's not there, though, strikes Byers as strange because this is something that's obviously going to get him in a lot of trouble. So he is concerned when he does not see him. Guys, I don't know if you've noticed, but these days it seems like you have to sign up for 37 different streaming services if you want to see all the shows people are watching.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And what always happens to me is I then completely forget about it. I have no idea which streaming services I have and which ones I don't have. But what I do notice is my credit card bill every month, which seems so much higher. And that's why I'm really excited to talk to you guys about Rocket Money.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
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The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
You know, Alice and I are always looking to be more healthy, and we were just talking about how fasting is one of the best ways to do that. But it's so hard when you don't get to eat anything. For me, that seems like a nightmare. Well, that's where Prolon comes in. When I first heard about the five-day fasting mimicking diet, I thought, I can't do this. I can't not eat for five days.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But the great thing about Prolon is that's not what you're doing. It's not that you're not eating for five days. Instead, you're using their science backed program to convince your body you're fasting while you're able to enjoy things like soups, snacks, and beverages designed to nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state, triggering cellular rejuvenation and renewal.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And I can tell you when you do it, It is amazing by day two or three how much better you feel. It will change your entire perspective on fasting, on eating, on dieting, on everything. NextGen builds on the original Prolon with 100% organic soups and teas, a richer taste, and ready-to-eat meals. It's developed over decades at USC's Longevity Institute and backed by top U.S. medical centers.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Prolon has been shown to support biological age reduction, metabolic health, skin appearance, fat loss, and energy.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Like Alice said, Quinn's has premium luggage options and stylish tote bags to carry it all. I tell you what, when I travel these days, unfortunately, it's usually for business. And I always need a good sports coat because I don't want to wear a suit everywhere I go. So I get sports coat. Got one from Quince. It is awesome. I love it.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And by partnering directly with Top Factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. So for your next trip... Treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Go to quince.com slash prosecutors for 365-day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash prosecutors to get free shipping and 365-day returns. What do you have to lose? Go to quince.com slash prosecutors. Guys, we want to talk about one of our favorite podcasts and one of our favorite creators, Crossing the Line with M. William Phelps.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
You know him as the New York Times bestselling author of 46 books. He's an investigative journalist and winner of the Excellence in Investigative Journalism Award from the Society of Professional Journalists. If there's one thing we need more of... It's people who actually understand how to research and chase a story. And he has absolutely done that.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
In fact, he consulted on the first season of the hit Showtime cable television series, Dexter. And he is executive producer, writer and co-host of the number one Apple true crime podcast franchise, Paper Ghosts.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And if you read these psychological reports, you see this is in a lot of ways very typical because Damien has a rough life. He has an abusive family. His stepfather is abusive to him. He is an outsider. He is not like other kids. He is made fun of. He brings some of it on himself. He's violent. He does things like tries to set the school on fire, all that sort of stuff.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And I think it's possible, by the way, that the two boys had gone into Robin Hood and come back out because you see this sort of, you know, multiple times people are seeing kids sort of going into that area. And it can't be the last time they went into that area because Chris is going to be seen with them later.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So I wonder if there was a little bit of, you know, back and forth in and out of that woods thing.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
David Jacoby and Terry have had a little bit of falling out in the years after this. And so now Terry basically says he was concerned the whole time and looking for Stevie. And Jacoby's like, nah, man, he came over and played guitar for a little while. And there are people who think that Terry Hobbs was involved. There are people who think that Jacoby was involved.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
There are people who think Terry Hobbs was involved, but not Jacoby. And we'll talk more about that later. But I will say this. I don't know that Terry Hobbs would have been that concerned at that point. So it wouldn't surprise me if he did just go over there and play guitar. But then maybe later on, once he knows what happened, he kind of feels bad about that.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And so the story changes to like, no, no, I was looking the whole time. Right. I mean, who knows? But if you're trying to figure out where Terry Hobbs was, this is a moment in time that you can at least anchor something to.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And this is sort of a mystery, too. Did they have the bags or not? Tried to figure this out and couldn't really do it. And I don't know the answer to this. Like, I don't know if, for instance, their book bags were missing from their house. Certainly there were none found at the crime scene. Maybe you imagine if someone killed them, they would have taken them with them.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And, you know, the old saying of like hurt people, hurt people like it is not surprising that he reacts this way. And the files talk about how this is sort of his defense mechanism in order to protect himself from all the bad things coming at him. He has become the aggressor. And that's how he sort of prevents this stuff from hurting him.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And part of this is just a study in eyewitness testimony and how flawed it is. You know, and we can try and make heads or tails out of all of this, but it's hard to do that. This case is, to me, is absolutely fascinating. I don't know about the rest of you, but we got a lot more to go. The boys are going to be cited in various places several times.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Jamie Clark Ballard is going to tell a story which is very incriminating of someone who is not the West Memphis Three. And then we're going to talk about the search, how it intensified, and the finding of the boys. And what happened after that, the investigation, how police eventually settled on Damien, Jason, and Jesse as being the people who were responsible for this incident.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Okay, so we have barely scratched the surface here. We have so much more to talk about, but we want to hear your thoughts. Shoot us an email at prosecutorspod at gmail.com at prosecutorspod for all your social media. Join us on the gallery where the discussion is already going hot and heavy. And we're just recording the second episode. We're still like a month away from releasing it publicly.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So... If you want to hear these episodes early, if you'd like to watch us film them, or if you're just somebody who likes to listen to stuff without ads, you can join our Patreon for as little as $3 a month. You can get every episode early and ad free. Alice, do you have time for a question or do you need to go?
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Let's do it. Okay. Are you enjoying covering this case so far?
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Oh, look, I will say this. This is it's going to be the longest case we ever did.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
My kingdom for more circumstantial evidence in this case. People out there who want to say a case is all circumstantial, they want direct evidence. Well, you got it here. You got all the direct evidence in the world. You got witnesses left and right telling you what happened that day. But you got very little circumstantial evidence that you can actually build some sort of solid timeline on.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Yeah. And we're going to have a few other things later on, which may or may not be helpful, but unfortunately they're all tied to people's recollection. So, hey, this is a study in that kind of problem with cases, but it is endlessly fascinating and it is more complex and more murky than any case we've ever done.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Some of the other cases, we did 14 episodes on Adnan Syed, and I'm still not sure how we got 14 episodes on that because that case, in comparison, is so straightforward. Whereas this one, we are really going to have to dig into this if we find our way out to the other end. So speaking of Adnan, Zimray2 has a question. Zimray says, and this is a great question, Zimray.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I'm not being critical of you at all. This is actually a really good question because in answering it, I think you'll understand how the same kind of evidence in two different cases can be wildly different. So Zimray says, in the Adnan case, you said the touch DNA found on Hayes' shoes was insignificant.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
However, in the recent Moscow murders case, four college students killed in Moscow, the basis of the arrest of the main suspect, Brian Koberger, was touch DNA on the knife sheath he allegedly left behind. Would you please explain why you believe touch DNA evidence is insignificant in the one case and yet is seemingly the total basis of the case against Brian Koberger?
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Exactly. And one other thing I'll say about Koberger, your question assumes a premise that is incorrect. It is not the only evidence against him. There's also cell phone evidence putting his vehicle and putting his cell phone and video of his vehicle in the area around the time of the murder.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So you have cell phone evidence putting him there, his vehicle putting him there, and then his DNA in a place inside the apartment where it shouldn't be because he's no reason for him to have been in there. And oh, by the way, the DNA is, Alice says, on the knife sheath. Let's compare that to what you have in Heyman Lee's case. You have this pair of shoes, which was in the backseat of the car.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
The DNA is on the bottom of her shoe. So when you walk, the bottom of your feet touch the ground and pick up unknown amounts of DNA. The DNA is unknown DNA. Let's say there was Alonzo Sellers. Alonzo Sellers found her body, called the police. If there had been Alonzo Sellers' DNA on the bottom of her shoes, that would be evidence.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Because then you're like, much like the Brian Koburger case, why would he have ever touched her shoes? That would be your question. You don't have that. You have unknown touch DNA. Could be anybody's. Maybe it is the murderer, but it is as likely, if not far more likely, to be basically anyone in Baltimore, or anyone that she's ever interacted with, or anyone in that school, or a police officer.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
In fact, even her own DNA isn't on the shoes. So the fact that Adnan's isn't isn't significant. And we don't even know that she wore those shoes that day. They were found in the back of her car, not on her body in the burial site. So you can see, as Alice said, it's not just I mean, some branches of evidence you can basically throw out.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
You know, we're basically at the point where we throw out forensic odontology, unless you think the West Memphis three are innocent, in which case you're all about it. But we're basically the place where we throw that out. Right. But touch DNA, we're not throwing it all out. We are saying it is weaker than other forms of DNA. It's weaker than blood. It's certainly weaker than like sperm DNA.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
That would be pretty significant, right? But you have to think of the context and you have to place it in the context of the overall case. And when you do that, I think you can see pretty easily why there's a big distinction between those two locations of DNA.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Yeah, great question. Thanks for that question. And we're always happy to answer questions. If you leave a five-star review, we will answer the question. You know, recently, Alice, we got one that was like, do we have like an unrequited love for each other or something? I don't know if you saw that one.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
I mean, at this point, we got seven kids between us. I mean, and none of them are related.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Exactly. All right. Well, thank you all for joining us. Let us know what you think. And we will be back next week and many, many weeks afterwards with more on the West Memphis Three. But until then, I'm Brett.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And we are the Frosty News. You do look great tonight, by the way.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Are you good or do you need to? We'll see. See, I think it's these things that make the podcast all the sweeter. Because we can always listen. Years later, decades later, little Allison will listen to this podcast and hear himself crying in the background.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And it's interesting because other people, kids from the school, kids from the area would describe how charismatic he was, which I think goes along with what you're saying, that he really kind of had a mesmerizing presence. And the people who liked him and the people who hung out with him were very influenced by him.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And, you know, one thing, as I've said, we're going to bust a lot of myths in this case, wherever we end up. One of the myths is just, you know, Damien was just he was like all of us. Like, you know, I used to wear black and listen to Metallica when I was in high school. I love Metallica. I listened to the black album so much on my Sony Discman that like I like burned it up like it would skip.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
There were only a few songs I could listen to, which is fine because I liked them all. And so because of that and because there were so many of us who were like that, who played Dungeons and Dragons or whatever. There was this big connection from Paradise Lost.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So many people, and you hear this in the coverage of this case, so many people identify with the myth of Damien Echols, that that's all he was. And people picked on him because of that. And they attacked him because of the music he liked and everything else. And that these juvenile corrections officers were just, you know, these...
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
crazy, satanic, panic obsessed morons who followed this kid around and tortured him and just made his life hell. When you actually look at this case, you realize none of that is true. Damien Echols, the juvenile officers who were watching Damien Echols and keeping him on the radar were doing their absolute jobs. They were in many ways trying to help him.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
They are the ones getting him into these psychiatric facilities because they're worried he is going to hurt someone. And their focus on him is for that reason.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And given the fact that they know about some of these violent outbursts, they know about how he's viewed, even if it's irrational and even if it's a sort of round up the usual suspects type thing, there's a reason that he's one of the first people on their radar in the neighborhood, in the area. He is someone that you could imagine doing something like that.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And typically that's the way police investigations proceed is with people who you can imagine. It's the same reason they also looked at all the sex offenders. in the area, the same type of thing. So this, and we're going to go into more detail on this later on, but this should really disabuse you of the notion that it was just because he wore black, like Johnny Cash.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
You see his family in Paradise Lost selling this lie, even though they said to the mental health people that they were afraid of Damien. They talked about how they were worried about his interest in the occult. Then when they get in front of the cameras on Paradise Lost, oh no, he just likes wearing black. Everybody likes wearing black. Right.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
You get that whole thing because they are selling that story because they're trying to save his life. And I get it. Right. I'm not criticizing them. It's just you as a viewer have been misled, whether intentionally or not.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And I'm going to go out on a limb that if all you ever did was watch Paradise Lost, read The Devil's Knot, listen to some of the coverage on various podcasts, you probably have not heard these details. You might have heard that Damien had mental health issues. You might have heard that he struggled mentally.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
with various mental problems, but you've probably never heard this much detail about what was going on with Damien. Okay, so that was January 19th. So this continues, and Damien's in this facility for a while. He's having these treatment sessions, and he's talking to these psychologists. On January 25th, 1993, during one treatment session, he talks about rituals.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, we continue the timeline in the West Memphis 3 case. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my timely co-host.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
He talks about drinking blood and his increased interest in demonology. And once again, this is not what Jerry Driver is saying as he's driving around West Memphis under the full moon. This is what the doctors who he's talking to are writing down. He says that drinking the blood of others gives him power. And when he does it, it, quote, makes him feel like a god.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
He says that the spirit of a woman murdered by her boyfriend entered his body about a year before, and it has decided to become a part of him. And it gives him sort of knowledge that others would not have. Now, he says he cannot see the spirit, but he can hear it, which is usually a bad sign when you're hearing voices. But nevertheless, he also reports speaking with demons and other spirits.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So this is the kind of thing he is telling his doctors four months before this murder is going to happen.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
Yeah. And look, you might be thinking, sure, this didn't come in a trial. And it did not because this is all very prejudicial stuff. Right. I mean, if a jury hears this, they are going to be inclined to think this is exactly the kind of person who would kill someone. That's the whole purpose of Rule 403, Rule 404, all of that. Right. So, you know, and we're not trying to bias you against Damien.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But I do think it's important to know the reality of the situation going in, because typically when this case is discussed, you are not given the reality. You are given a fantasy about the situation. There are aspects of the fantasy that are true. We're going to talk about the satanic panic, and we're going to talk about some of the stuff that was going on in West Memphis.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
But Damien and his words, they're not just, I like Satan. It's stuff like, drinking blood gives me power, and when I get angry, it builds up inside until I explode, and then I hurt people. That is troubling. You might be wondering, how do we have this? And once again, this is kind of funny.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So you remember in the Adnan Syed case, some of the worst facts that we talked about for Adnan Syed came from the defense file. And the fact that that was released was such a huge blow to especially the false story that was put forward about him in serial. Well, in this case, it's even more egregious.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So Ron Lacks, who was a private investigator who we're going to talk about more as we go on, as part of his work for the defense, he got all this together. They brought all of this together and presented it to the court as mitigation in his sentencing phase.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
So this was presented to the jury, not when they convicted him, but when they're trying to decide whether or not to give him the death penalty. This became what is known sort of infamously as Exhibit 500. It's available on Callahan, and you can read all of this. And this was just incredible on goal by the defense, because clearly...
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
When they either didn't read it very thoroughly or didn't think the defense would read it very thoroughly or didn't think the prosecution would read it very thoroughly. But it didn't take long for the prosecution to read exactly the things I was just reading to you. The whole Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, drinking blood, exploding, direct that to the jury.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
And it's not surprising, given that they heard that, that they did return with a death sentence for Echols.
The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
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The Prosecutors
300. West Memphis 3 Part 2
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The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
He didn't attempt to climb the mountain. He didn't go up the most treacherous part. He had turned around and gone back. And frankly, the trip was relatively easy to the point that the other three didn't even express concern about it. They were like, okay, that's fine. See you later. Go back to camp, right?
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And yet he's managed in this, what should have been a relatively easy trip to lose his ice axe and to lose a crampon. And it wasn't just that. He was found on a gentle slope. So not the kind of area you would have expected him to have fallen, to have slid down the mountain, anything like that. His face was battered and it was frozen in a look of
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
of horror no one could really explain why this was but we're gonna see they went ahead they take him down the mountain they remove him from the mountain and they give him a chance to de-thaw because they're going to do an autopsy which they expect will reveal that he's died of some sort of pulmonary edema he's died of hypothermia something like that but they discover shocking details that they did not expect to find gruesome insights into his final moments
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
When they removed his hands, remember his hands were sort of frozen to his abdomen. He had sort of his hands across his abdomen. When they removed his hands, they discovered a cylindrical hole that was bloody and deep. As a matter of fact, it went basically all the way from his stomach to his back. Explaining this was shocking. No one knew what to think about this.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
The only thing anyone could come up with is that he had fallen on his axe and somehow died from the injury. The problem with that, there were several. Number one, this would have had to have been a very violent fall because this wasn't just a hole in his abdomen. It would have had to have cut through five layers of clothing and then all the way to his back.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Something, just an intense amount of force to make something like that happen. And his axe was missing. So where did this happen where he'd had this accident? It couldn't have been where he was because there was no indication he would even fall on that slope. And if he did, it wouldn't be this kind of fall. Where did the axe go? How did he end up with this massive wound to his stomach?
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Well, it's Quechua, which is the Peruvian dialect. It's actually the Inca, ancient Inca dialect. So I went with that instead of Spanish. Even though we're in Argentina, I wanted to change it up a little bit because I do have a Machu Picchu story I'm going to tell later on. So I felt like it was appropriate. And it means beautiful lady.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And you're thinking about, what did we think happened here? What was sort of the story that we were told? He was probably cold. He probably succumbed to hypothermia, much like DIY Pass. He probably fell where he was walking. He just couldn't make it back to camp. And he died there of pulmonary edema combined with hypothermia. But now we have this wound.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So now you have to think that this person who was already having great difficulty moving to the point that he's now retreating back down the mountain, that he must have had a fall somewhere else. sustained this catastrophic injury, got up, kept walking to the campsite and then, you know, collapsed, I guess, from maybe bleeding. Maybe there he died of hypothermia.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Maybe there he died of pulmonary edema. One thing I would note, and I don't know how much you can take from this, because as Alice said, one thing that's always lurking in the back here is is the fact that if they're telling the truth, nobody's mind was really working by the time they saw his body. One person thought he was a dead soldier, for instance.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
But nobody says like there was all this blood or we followed a trail of blood or anything like that. Nobody sees that. But the other thing, he did not die of pulmonary edema and he didn't die of blood loss. His autopsy revealed that his death was caused by cranial contusions. He had injuries to his skull and his brain, which is consistent with the fact that his face was all beaten up.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So I don't want to say he was beaten to death because that sort of begs the question, but some sort of injury to his head is eventually what killed him, sort of in combination with this massive wound to his abdomen.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
I'm saying practice makes perfect. I'm like an ancient Incan. Just rolls off the tongue. OK, it does.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So a year passes, and now it's 1976. And they know the body's up there, but they can't get it. Eventually, a recovery team goes up. They find Janet's body. Removing her body is very difficult. She's essentially frozen to the mountain. In fact, as they're removing her, they have to essentially cut off one of her arms.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
They basically leave her, I think it's her left arm, on the mountain to get her body down. but they are able to bring her body down. It's been significantly mummified by the time and the cold air and everything else. They perform an autopsy, and once again, it is not pulmonary edema that killed her. Her cause of death was the same as Cooper's, cranial contusions.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Now, by this point, speculation is growing. These deaths look a lot closer to murder than an accident. The person who did the autopsies on both bodies is still alive and has talked about this a lot. And he said, look, I've seen lots of people who've died on the mountain. I mean, there's a cemetery at the bottom of the mountain. It's called the Climber Cemetery where Janet Johnson is buried.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
She's not the only one because people die on this mountain. You know, maybe not as frequently as other places, but it certainly happens. People have falls. Things like this happen. And he said he'd seen that. But when you see someone who falls and dies, you typically see injuries all over the body. They have broken bones.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You know, they have broken hands from reaching out to stop themselves or broken legs or broken ribs or broken collarbones, broken shoulders.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
lots of different broken bones from falling what they typically don't have are injuries contained to their face and in this case you have two people who supposedly had fatal falls falls to the extent that one you know had an ice axe go all the way through his body And enough injuries to his brain that's going to kill him.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You have Janet, who same thing, supposedly fell, had enough injuries to her skull and her brain that she died. Strangely has this rock that doesn't seem to belong that's sitting on her body. But nevertheless, no other broken bones. That's it.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You know, it's like I mean, I don't want to make light of this, but it's almost like something out of a cartoon where a cartoon character falls and they keep hitting their head as they're going down the mountain or whatever. I mean, it's almost like that. Like somehow both these people managed to have these catastrophic falls and the only damage is to their face.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
The other thing we mentioned the ice axe earlier or the wound. There was a problem with the wound. As we said earlier, it was cylindrical. The medical examiner had seen wounds before caused by ice axes. Never anything like this, but he'd seen it. And he said, because of the way an ice axe is made, the wounds are square. They're not cylindrical because the shape of the ice axe is square.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You know, I don't know what it is about these mountain mysteries, but they really get to me. I really like them. You know, Dial-Up Pass is one of my favorite stories of all time. Always liked doing these. And this one's pretty intense. And if you guys listened to the last episode, just to give you a quick reminder, we're back in 1973. We're in Argentina. We're climbing Aconcagua.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So when it goes in, it's going to make basically a square wound. It didn't match the wound that he had in his stomach, but something did. And that was an ice screw. So he had seen ice screw wounds before, which are, you know, screw into the side of the glacier to attach ropes and that sort of thing. Obviously has a pretty sharp point. At the end, those kinds of wounds would be circular.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
They would be cylindrical, just like the wound on Cooper. So he's seeing all these things and he's saying, look, none of this makes sense to me. I think that something is going on here. And he refers it over to the police. A judge gets involved. He's now looking into this. They're going to get to the bottom of this. You know, Janice Johnson, in the meantime, her body has been buried.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
in a cemetery near the trailhead. And just as they're opening this investigation and really getting into it, March 24th, 1976, the Argentine government collapses. This is a big deal. You know, this is one of those, you know, where thousands of people are going to be killed. There's all sorts of like, you know, fighting between various political parties. It collapses.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And now the last thing anybody's concerned with is what happened to these two Americans on this mountain. So what had begun to be an in-depth investigation that might have given us some answers completely comes to a halt.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And we're going up the Polish route, which has only been done four times before. And we've already had this tragedy that has befallen this group of hikers. You may remember the group started out kind of, you know, kind of large with a lot of different people with a lot of skills and abilities, the kind of group maybe you think will have no trouble climbing this mountain.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
But one by one, they fell away until there were only four left.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
those four went up the mountain and only two came down which is not a great percentage for your survival rate but at this point we have two people who are dead on the mountain the rest of the group has returned and has actually left the country and the expectation is this is the kind of thing that happens on mountains we talked about this climbing a mountain is a very dangerous thing i'll go ahead and tell my story my peruvian story so i'm not much of a mountain climber i'm sure this is shocking
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
to everyone but i did go to peru it was the first time i'd ever really been at altitude so it was an interesting experience but we went to machu picchu which is one of the things you have to do and it's amazing it's beautiful it's glorious highly recommend it in just stunning place you can't there's so many things about the ancient world that you see them and you just think it must have been aliens because how in the world they were able to do this i don't know up on this mountain but if you've ever seen sort of the traditional picture of
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So do you have answers? Well, one thing I want to note, because you made a really good point. I think it's worth highlighting it. So Dyatlov Pass, the ultimate mystery.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So one thing about Dyatlov Pass that you pointed out is one reason to think that whatever happened isn't as mysterious as some people, some people, present company excluded, want to believe happened is that the people with the very worst injuries were all found together. So they were all found together in the snow cave. And there are some natural sort of reasons why that might have happened.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
They could have been on an ice bridge. It collapsed. The snow pours on top of them. There would have been a lot of snow. It would have been really heavy, crushing injuries, that kind of thing. Those people are all together. So there are explanations for that other than like a Yeti attacked them. Right. In this case, though.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You have to believe that two different people in two different places, neither of which seems to be the kind of place where you'd expect to have these kinds of injuries, suffered the exact same types of injuries that are unlike what you would expect to find in someone who died on a mountain, but are the kind of injuries that you might expect to find if someone was beaten to death.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And look, what do I think? I think the most likely outcome still is probably it was some really bizarre accident on the mountain because bizarre things happen on the mountain. But that's not actually what I think happened. And I don't know if it's just if it's the mountains or what, but they bring out the conspiracy theorist in me.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Like whenever we have these mountain cases, I find myself giving in to the conspiracies.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
machu picchu looking down over the abandoned city there is this mountain behind it and you can climb that mountain and it gives you a very different view and so my friend and i being young and stupid decided we were going to climb the mountain it was a beautiful day it was a cool day we'd gotten there early seemed like a great thing to do we climbed the mountain all the way to the top absolutely exhausted just dead by the time we get to the top but it's amazing well worth it right
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And look, I think that carries so much weight with me. It always does. It's one of the reasons in the Diallo Pass case that I'm so hesitant to believe the avalanche theory because every single person who's ever been to that mountain says it wasn't an avalanche. Everybody who's ever been to where they pitch their tent.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Nerds in an office at MIT playing with the frozen snow generator can come up with a theory about what happened. But the people who've actually been there are like, no, that's not what happened. And that means a lot to me. And in this case, it means a lot to me that these folks say this. I will tell you what I think happened.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And I hate to slander the dead because everybody involved in this case is dead. So, you know, take this with a lot of salt. But I think you had these people who went up there. They weren't very close to each other. It seems like they didn't even really like each other. And as they're climbing the mountain, it's getting worse and worse.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And we talked about in the first episode how going through difficulty can really bind people together. And that's true. But if you already have a group that has issues, difficulties can really exacerbate that. I think Janet Johnson was not well liked by the group. I think she was seen as a little bit of an outlier. She just wasn't what they were used to, right?
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
For whatever reason, whether it's because she was a woman or because of her sexuality or because of how she approached it, there was already a distance there. And you get down to these four people. And they really want to reach the summit to the extent that the stories they're telling, even the stories they tell, do not paint them in a good light.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
It paints them as people who are willing to send Cooper back on his own. Good luck. We're going to the summit. Janet gets separated and they just leave her there. They don't even try and find her. Even the way they're describing it's pretty bad. I think if this was a murder, I think the way it happened, I think Janet was killed first.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
i think something happened on the side of that mountain as they're approaching the summit when the hypoxia is intense hallucinations are bad people aren't thinking clearly i think she was slowing them down and they even said at one point that they looked back and she was gone right i think she was slowing them down she was ruining everything
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
they were worried about staying on the side of the mountain because their conditions, I think there was some sort of fight. I think probably somebody, that rock that was found in her body is what killed her. I think somebody used that rock to bash her face in basically and killed her. And I think Cooper wasn't involved in this. I think Cooper might've even been trying to stop this from happening.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And then when he couldn't stop it, he turns around and he's heading back to the camp and, And the expectation is if he makes it back to camp, he's going to tell everybody what happened. And I think he was murdered because of it. I think he was chased down. I think he was stabbed with an ice screw. I think one of the men who survived, remember, he has a black eye, right?
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Because he fell down the mountain, too. He also doesn't have any broken bones. The only injury he has is a black eye. And mysteriously, everybody's missing their ice axes, right? Right. I think there was a struggle. I think he was killed. That's what I think happened. I think these people were murdered. I think this was a murder on the side of this mountain.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
I think there's a lot of evidence that points to that. I don't think he could ever prove it. Certainly not now. Everyone involved is dead. Every single one of the Americans is dead. The guide is still alive. The people who performed the autopsy are still alive. Some of the people investigated are still alive. But none of the actual people involved are alive. They have all died at this point.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So you're never going to know exactly what happened. But to me, nothing about this, other than the fact it happened on a dangerous mountain, nothing about this says this was an accident. So I think it probably was a murder.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Well, as we're up there, you know, this is a beautiful day. All of a sudden, this storm starts to roll in while we're on top of this mountain. But because we're so high up, the storm doesn't come over us. It's like down over Machu Picchu. So we're standing there looking down at this storm and thinking, well, we'll just wait it out.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
But then as we're watching it, the storm starts to slowly rise up the mountain. And this is like a thunderstorm, right? So we realize if we stay on the mountain, the storm is going to rise up and be above us. So we make the decision to go down the mountain, to climb down the mountain into the storm so that at least for the first half or so, we avoid the storm. Then we're in the storm.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And this this is me speculating, but I think it is strange that no one in the group seemed interested in helping to get Cooper down. You know, Janet Johnson's one thing. They didn't like her. Number one. Number two, they didn't know where she was. Right. Like their story was there was the fall. She got separated. No idea where she is.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
She could have fallen all the way down the mountain for all they knew. But they knew exactly where Cooper was. But rather than like try and work with the police to get a group to go up there and get the body, they're heading back to the United States the next day. And to me, that really rubs me the wrong way and makes me have a lot of questions about exactly what happened.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Then we'll get out of the storm. And when we got to where the storm was, it was one of the craziest experiences I've ever had. I'm kind of surprised we're not dead because like I said, it was a thunderstorm. So like lightning is striking below us. Right. And then we go into the clouds and it's like lightning is just constantly striking all over this place. I mean, it was terrifying.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
The Peronists were on the way out for a while. They were on their way out for a while. I doubt they were involved.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And look, it's a tragedy for everybody involved because maybe they would have investigated it and conclusively proven that it was an accident. And then this wouldn't be hanging over the people who survived. But I think there's a lot of questions about this case. You know, this is one I don't think you've probably seen covered many places.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Maybe there's a couple podcasts or whatever out there who've covered it, but definitely the New York Times. I mean, basically, we just ripped off that entire article. I mean, that article is amazing. It's fantastic.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
definitely should read it we'll link to it in the show notes just it's it's good i mean it is everything you wish journalism still was it's fantastic really interested to hear your thoughts on this shoot us an email prosecutorspod at gmail.com at prosecutors pod for all your social media you can find us on facebook in the gallery we're on x we're on tiktok such that it is, I guess it still is.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
By the time you hear this, if it still is, we're still on it. If not, it's re is. Yeah. We'll be on something else. We're not joining that communist, like little red book thing that you can forget about that, but we're in lots of places. You can find us, check us on Instagram. Other thing, if you've somehow missed it, we have the sub stack.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
We managed to make it to the bottom and I didn't die. But I guess if I'd been struck by lightning, maybe we would have been some bizarre story and nobody would have really understood how we ended up in that situation. But that's the kind of thing that can happen to you on a mountain. You just never know what's going to happen in a situation like that.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Now, most of the articles are free that we, we have started this prosecutor's university thing where we, People who subscribe will get articles on various parts of the law that are confusing. It's kind of like legal briefs, but in written form if you prefer that. So check that out.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
If you're a law student, really, it's an investment in your legal education. You should join. Okay, well, Alice, do you want to answer a question?
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Okay, let's do it. Let's see. What's a good one? Okay, so Caj2189 says, So automatically anything that follows is going to be wrong. But in law dramas, I see where the opposing side springs unknown evidence in the hearing that decides if the case goes to trial. Is this accurate? If so, what are the stipulations of the pretrial trial hearing? Yeah. So what do you think about that?
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And don't you want it to be that way? I mean, think about it. Do you want the winner to just be whoever has the best lawyer? Whichever lawyer is the most clever, the trickiest, or the one who's the most suave or whatever. I mean, is that really what you want? Or do you want it to basically be set up where the way it's supposed to work is really the lawyers are just sort of
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
I mean, I don't want to say they don't matter because they obviously do, but they're presenting the evidence to the jury to the best of their ability and letting the jury decide. It's not like you don't want to win through tricks, and you can't. I mean, the rules of evidence just prevent that. And it's one reason, and we talk about this, it's really important to respect the rules of evidence.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And I feel like these people, they definitely experience that no matter what the final answer to this mystery is.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You know, I think there is a big tendency and we've seen this in a lot of cases to think that like the rules of evidence are almost like a problem. You know, the rules of evidence stand in the way of truth. If it weren't for the rules of evidence, you know, defense attorneys could just present anything they wanted and the jury could decide. Right. And. And no, that's not how the system is set up.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
It really is supposed to be set up where all the relevant evidence comes in, the stuff that isn't going to prejudice you or make you decide based on something other than what the evidence is, and then you want the jury to decide. So yeah, the gotcha moments are few and far between. It really is... much more evidence based and law based than you might think.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
You know, you think about like the Brian Coburger case, it's just going on right now. They just had what you would believe if you followed the media was this dramatic, you know, the defense had filed this motion to suppress the DNA evidence and to throw out the case and dismiss the whole thing. And, you know, this quadruple murder case hangs in the balance.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And we didn't even cover it because we knew exactly what was going to happen, which is this is a typical suppression hearing where the defense makes a pretty outlandish claim that's going to be denied. They had the hearing. People watched it. And what happened? It looked like the defense attorney, like if you watched it, you thought, man, this defense attorney is not very good.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
But that's not what it was. It was that the law was entirely against her. So, of course, she looked bad because it's not about her and her abilities. It's not like oratory. If she can channel like some Mark Antony or something, Cicero, suddenly she's going to win by acclamation. That's not how it works. She didn't have the law on her side.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
In fact, the law was completely against her and she was always going to lose and she's going to lose because that's how it really works. And you see that in a lot of these cases, no matter how dramatic people want to make it seem, a lot of times there's a reason we're pretty good at predicting the outcome of these cases because the law is pretty clear.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Exactly. It's meant to be predictable. It shouldn't be shocking.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And I'll tell our lawyers this all the time. I mean, they'll come to me with something either they feel very passionately about or some novel argument they want to try or something along those lines. And I'll often tell them, if you feel passionately about it, you go for it. I will stand behind you. I will do the very best I can. And then we're going to lose. Yeah.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
and then we're gonna lose so just be prepared for that part where we lose you know and usually they're like okay and we figure something out right like we drop that argument and maybe drop that count sometimes you know or concede something because we know we're gonna lose and that really is good lawyers are as good at telling their clients no that's never gonna work as they are saying you hired me that's what you want to do in fact that's what bad lawyers do
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
If a lawyer tells you no, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad lawyer. Okay. Well, look, this has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed this case. I hope you've enjoyed it as well. We look forward to your thoughts. We'll be back next week with something a little bit more traditionally true crime. Well, you know, we like to throw these mysteries in every now and then.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And we are the prosecutors. I'm going to go ahead and go Rob, unless you have something super secret you want to discuss.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Let's start marking where we... I think they left. Oh, you marked it. You're so good.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And I think that is definitely the question we're going to want to answer. So let's go back. Let's travel away from Peru into Argentina and reveal the rest of the story because there's some twists and turns yet to come. So it's February 13th, 1973, and the climbers have now returned back to the United States.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Go, go, go. As a matter of fact. I'm sorry. Your haircut looks fantastic. Fine. Fine, Alice. Alice is sick of me. She's ready to get this show on the road. No. Here we go.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And pretty much immediately after they returned, the president of the Mazamas Climbing Club, of which many of the climbers were a member, called for a secret meeting. between the club leadership and the surviving members of the expedition. Now, whenever you're having a secret meeting, it's never going to look good.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
The purpose of the meeting apparently was to find out exactly what happened during the expedition with the presumed outcome of, "...dispelling of certain suspicions, uncertainties, rumors, whatever, which may have come to your attention and have been amplified by the confused communications during the expedition and by conflicting or incomplete newspaper reports."
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
The meeting occurred at Defoe's law office. Now, look, this is immediately rather suspicious to me because, remember, Defoe, you know, he is a lawyer. He's from Portland, Oregon, and he is the one who has sort of organized this whole thing. So he was the guy. He was the guy who was collecting the money. He was the guy who planned the trip.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
He's the guy who decided to add Janet Johnson to the group in some ways. He might be someone who bears a little responsibility for it, even if as just the leader. But this notion of all the surviving people coming together in a secret meeting to sort of hash out their story is what it sounds like to me. Certainly cast some suspicion on the proceedings.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Well, I mean, I think the most charitable explanation would be, this is a group of people who are going to climb more mountains. This is a terrible tragedy. What happened? Let's learn from it. I guess that would be the most charitable explanation.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
But given sort of the mystery of what happened, and the immediate suspicion that something strange had happened, the involvement of the police in Argentina, there's a really sort of interesting legal issue here, too. Because... You know, these are Americans, but everything happened in Argentina.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And we are the prosecutors. today on The Prosecutors. We finish our look at the Aconcagua mystery. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my sumac sipas co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So it's not clear that like the local police, even though an American is dead, would have any real jurisdiction to investigate this crime. Ordinarily, something would have had to have happened in Argentina. Washington or Portland in Oregon in the United States that is tied to the murder. So, for instance, imagine that someone decided they were going to kill Janet Johnson on the mountain.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
They planned it in Oregon. They then flew to Argentina and committed the crime. That action in Oregon would be enough that you could charge that.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
Oregon but if you don't have that you're gonna run into problems some of you are aware and I forget the the name but it was a two people they got married they flew to Australia they went scuba diving the newlywed wife dies she drowns the husband was an experienced scuba diver and their witnesses who indicated that they believed he had tampered with her respirator so he killed her and
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And so there was an attempt in the United States to prosecute him, and that was eventually dismissed because of this lack of any proof that anything happened in the United States as part of planning this crime. So I think they're in sort of an interesting place. And you would think Defoe, who is the lawyer, would know this. And so you wonder if part of this meeting...
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
It's him explaining to them, hey, as long as we keep our stories together, there's really nothing that can happen to us here. Unless we go back to Argentina, there's really nothing that can happen. So let's get our story straight. And it seems like that's exactly what they did. On February 15th, which is two days after the meeting, Defoe's secretary, types up a three-page summary.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
And that would become the official story of the surviving climbers. Not only do they get together and get their story straight, they actually type it out. So they have a story that is their story. It's their timeline. It lays out exactly what happens. And it speculates that Johnson and Cooper probably died of pulmonary edema because that is typically what kills you on the mountain.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
combination of the lack of oxygen the cold eventually your body gives out and you die but it would turn out this speculation would not be true but where it's going to be a while before you find that out march of 1973 john cooper remember he was the one who was found dead from hypothermia near the third camp His family held a memorial service in Kansas.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
But at that point, his body still had not been recovered.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So they found the body. It's relatively close to where they expected to find it. So, so far, everything seems fine. Normal, right? But there were some things that immediately made them wonder about what exactly happened.
The Prosecutors
294. The Aconcagua Mystery Part 2
So some of these odd things that surrounded Cooper's death, he was missing a crampon, which, you know, would have been something he definitely would have had on his feet for this climb. So in some point he has lost that crampon and he does not have his ice axe. He's not the first person to lose it. But once again, he doesn't have it. Now, you think about this.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And I like South Carolina. Cock Commander or whatever his name is. Sir Cox a lot. I can't forget what his name is. Sir Cox a lot.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
What do you think about that? You know, it used to be legal in Oklahoma. And then they made it illegal. And I'll just tell you, I grew up in a place where you saw people raising roosters all the time and it wasn't for fertilizing. It wasn't for me. It wasn't for me. But I've never been to a cockfight.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I will say this. I don't want to alienate any listeners. I would not go to a dog fight. I find that personally offensive. I love dogs. I would totally go to a cock fight. Can I just tell you though? If it was legal. If I was in the Philippines, I would go.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Have we started this yet, or are we still talking? Guys, we want to talk about one of our favorite podcasts, a podcast we love so much we have appeared on it multiple times, Silver Linings Handbook with Jason Blair. Jason is a friend of ours, but he's not just that.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
He is an incredible interviewer, an incredible podcaster, and his episodes will pull something out of you you didn't even know existed.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
was there he says that he wants to have conversations that inspire and he does just that with interesting conversations with interesting people and the themes that he looks at are not just true crime though he's got a lot of great true crime episodes as well he talks about growth understanding belonging compassion things that are important in true crime and in life
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
We're going to get someone who wants to start with these brothers. Okay. Before we get started, though, because I mentioned Finding Nemo. You've seen Finding Nemo, right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So my, I went to the finding Nemo ride when we were at Disney world.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
There's a ride. And they also, the ride kind of sucks, but it ends in an aquarium and the aquarium is awesome.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
The whale that swallows them and then takes them to Sydney? Yeah.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I don't think the whale can actually eat something that big.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And also, you had God intervening. So even if it was, well, I mean, a killer whale can eat people.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
But if, I mean, we have divine intervention here. So if, swallow you, whatever. Blue whales are crazy. I mean, do you realize blue whales, the largest, you know, you think about dinosaurs. You think about how huge dinosaurs are. And in your mind, the big animals all lived way back in the day, right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
The blue whale, which lives on the earth right now, is the largest animal to ever exist on the face of the earth. You can stand in its heart.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Massive amounts of it. And that's how the guy got eaten. Because, you know, they go to the bottom and they go up. They open their mouth and they go all the way up and they're eating on it and they breach. And that dude just happened to be where the whale was breaching. And so the whale ate him. That's pretty crazy.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
He bit my mother-in-law and felt bad about it because he didn't know it was her when he did it because he knows her and likes her. But it was our fault. It was our fault. But he did bite her and felt bad about it. Yeah. But he would never bite me. He would never bite my wife. He'd never bite my kids. He would never do that.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
but sometimes the dogs i've had oh first 100 he would bite me yeah now he i'm nobody to him and there would be bite marks on both sides unlike in the karen reed case where they were only really cover uh barely bite marks at all like scratches kind of the scratches you might have for instance if your arm hit a i don't know the rear of a vehicle and then smashed out the tail light not to get onto another controversial case while we're talking about this case but nevertheless
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
But just go ahead and leave that in, Jason. People will enjoy that.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
She said hopefully. So you interrupted me earlier. I was trying to tell a story.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I know. I know we need to get started. I get it. Give us some grace, guys. We're going to be talking about this case for 25 episodes.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
In these big cases. I wish I hadn't already told my psychopath story. because by the way yeah i gotta tell you this at some point one of the people at work failed failed or didn't fail the psychopath story and you'll not be surprised to learn who it is so i'll do that with you later so what was i talking about oh television television So you don't, you're just like a tiger.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Because here's the thing. They watch Auburn lose in basketball, right? Surely.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Yes, that's right. She takes her kids to the bar.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I was at the bar last weekend. The kids were there. They were all drinking.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It's a good point. The baby's two year birthday party and one year birthday party last year was at the bar. Great bar.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
My daughter did the same thing. My wife gave her the credit card and she just like bellied up to the bar with the credit card and ordered all the drinks. I mean, what did you... She's like, daddy would like an IPA.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett. And I'm joined, as always, by my easily distracted co-host, Alice. Hello, Alice.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
As long as you don't do Calou. You know Calou?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Before we do, I've been trying to tell the story for like 30 minutes.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So look, I don't know what it is about Bluey. Bluey is a masterpiece. Okay. So we're watching Bluey, my daughter, you know, you know how I feel. I mean, I am, look, I am barely capable of surviving as an adult. That's not true. I tell my wife, I'm just not cut out for life. I need to be hit by a bus or something. I cannot live. I cannot experience life as an adult because I just take everything.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It's just too hard for me. I'm very emotional. I'm an emotional person. Have I ever told you about the time? I'll talk about Blue in a second. Have I ever told you about the time that I took the malaria medication?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So my wife and I back, it's been 12 years now since we went to Chernobyl. So we just worked on a presidential campaign. I want to say I won't say which one, though. You can probably figure it out based on various reporting. So back in 2012 and after that was over, we decided we're going to take an around the world trip. So we bought a one-way ticket.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I mean, if you have an opportunity to do this, you should totally do it. We bought a one-way ticket to Hong Kong. Longest flight in the world. I mean, it's actually not. The flight to Sydney is further. But nevertheless, it was like 18 hours. 18-hour flight to Hong Kong. You've been to Taiwan, right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
If you have never flown on one of those flights, and it'll never be like it was because at the time, there's no internet. I loved it. I loved trans-Pacific flights so much because once you got on that flight, no one could call you. No one could contact you. Just for 18 hours, you were free. It was just you. Just you and your book. Whatever. You could relax. It was amazing. Anyways...
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I know why I'm talking about this. But anyways, we did this whole round.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It was amazing. And you're right. And if you're going to Asia, they give you that great Asian food, like whatever it is. It's basically a bento box. You know, probably some seaweed soup. Why am I? Yes. Why am I talking about this again? How did I lead into this? Remind me.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Around the world. And I literally have no idea where we went. What are we doing here? How did I get into this? I will say this. We went to Singapore and I went to Raffles, which is a hotel in Singapore, where they invented the Singapore sling. And it was $30 to get an original Singapore sling.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And, you know, it's funny how much your life changes because at the time, $30 for a drink was just absurd. It's still kind of absurd. But now, like, whatever, right? But at the time, it's like, I can get one of these and we're going to share it, right? And we had our Singapore sling and it was good. What was the point of the story? I can't remember.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I seriously can't remember what the point of the story was. What's the point of all of this? Because I was talking about Bluey.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Yeah. Or sign off half the time, but it's okay.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So, and I promise. Okay, we're going to get started on the case soon. I promise.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And this kind of, you know, mosquitoes play into the case. And this is about mosquitoes. So there you go. That's true. It all ties in.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So I'm going to Asia at, and I mean, it was January. So I don't know that it was actually... It's always hot in Asia.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
If you go to Singapore, you go to Hong Kong, you go to Vietnam, it's hot.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It doesn't matter what time it is. So I had to get malaria medication. And so I had read about these dreams. At the time, I was writing books and stuff. And I had read about these dreams that you have when you're taking malaria medication, quinine. And I wanted to have these dreams, right? Malaria dreams. They're crazy. Well, yeah, there you go.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So I go to the doctor and I'm like, hey, I'm going to Southeast Asia. Probably need some malaria drugs. And he's like, yeah, we got these two malaria drugs. They're great. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want the new drugs. I want quinine. I want to go like the British did in 1880. And they're like, you know that has really serious side effects, right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
You know, when we do these big cases that everybody's been wanting to hear, I feel like, you know, we got to just get right into it because I don't, you know, chit chat. You know how people are about chit chat?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And I was like, that's fine. That's what I want. And they're like, you know those are more expensive than the new drugs we have that don't have the side effects and you don't have to take as much of.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I want the Quinoa. So the doctor's like, Whatever, man. He gives me the quinine. And so because it's a malaria drug, malaria is a parasite. You have to basically take it so that your body is filled with quinine. Exactly. So that when the parasite enters your body, it dies. You have to coat yourself with quinine. So you have to take it weeks before you start your trip.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So I get my quinine and I'm taking it weeks before. And right as we're getting ready to leave, I just, I started noticing I was just so emotional all the time. Like I would watch commercials And I would tear up. I'd be like, this is like making me sad, right? And there was this song. I can't remember who it's by. But it was called Welcome to the Future, right? It's a country music song.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And so it starts off with like the guy's talking about how his grandfather fought in World War II. And now he's on a video call with Tokyo, Welcome to the Future.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
and it ends it does this whole thing about how like you know his friend was the running back and the high school football team and they burned a cross in his front yard because he dated the prom queen and then like martin luther king had a dream and i just start bawling i hear this song which i've heard a thousand times kitschy country club you know and i just start bawling i'm like
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
You know, we got all these. Yeah, that's true. We don't have forever. You know, if you're just joining us for this case, then I mean, kind of late to the game. I mean, I'm. I'm just saying. We have a great back catalog, though. We do. So many good episodes. Before we get started, here's the thing.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
If you're just joining us, I mean, one of the things that sort of defines Alice and I and how we do these cases, we tend to maybe occasionally, sometimes, go down, I don't know, what would you call it?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Yeah. And I'm about to start into that because I'm about to have a baby. I know.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And then I lost it, you know, and that's the thing about being a parent is because you're trying to hold on.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I would call it rabbit trails as well. Who calls it rabbit holes? I don't know. Do rabbits even live in holes?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I think everybody should be a parent. I know that's not the thing to say these days, but I think everybody should be a parent.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
The thing about parenting is... before you have kids, nothing you do really matters because it all ends with you. Right? Like, you know, and look, I get it. Some people don't have kids and that's great. You know, God bless you. That's not me. That's you. That's fine. But if you don't have kids, it all dies with you. And that's, that's fine. Right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Like your accomplishments, your failures, your highs, your lows, your happinesses, your sadnesses, whatever, it all dies with you. And that's fine. It's like, Kind of a cool way to live your life in some ways. It's like, whatever. It's kind of like, you know, that's good. I lived my life. I did the best I could. Whatever. See you next life, right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
But when you have kids, everything you have, this like consequence that goes beyond you and everything you do, you feel like, number one, you're always failing.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Right. I mean, the feeling of failure, I feel failure more with children than I've ever felt with anything in my life. Cause I always feel like I'm failing them. Like I'm not doing whatever I'm doing is not what I should be doing for them. That's what I feel about it.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
If you don't start out with a lot of bunnies, you end up with a lot of bunnies.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Have you ever plant mint? It just takes over the whole yard.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And I always, you know, I thought I should have kids because that's what people do. I was like, what do people do? They get jobs, they get married, they have kids. I have a job, I got married, I guess I need to have kids. And I remember right before my daughter was born thinking,
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
well this is the end of my life all the fun things i've been able to do before you know can't just go to a concert can't just go to the bar yeah and then it was like wow i started yeah exactly yeah exactly i was like why did i do this before yeah it's like technical right like i didn't know i was living in black and white
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Yeah, it's so true. You know, Alice, I would say that this is a great place to start the episode, but I look at the recording and actually we have been talking for so long that I feel like. This is probably the end of this episode.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Yeah, it's okay. We'll do episode two tomorrow, right?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Okay, so just looking at this, looks like, okay, looking at our calendar, looks like this episode will come out around the 1st of April. I guess we'll go ahead and do the next episode tomorrow, just for you guys who have listened to this whole thing. I feel like you deserve, rather than wait a whole week, we'll do the next episode tomorrow. Does that sound good to you, Alice?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
I guess that makes sense. Since this one went kind of long on the banner.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Well, we're already excited to hear your thoughts on this case, so shoot us an email, prosecutorspod at gmail.com and prosecutorspod for all your social media. Talk about it on the gallery. We'll be there. If you want to view these episodes early and ad-free, join Patreon. Okay, Alice, before we sign off for today, do you have any last-minute thoughts as we get started on this case?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Better make it a good one. You want to leave a legacy. Maybe this case will be our final statement on this podcast. A closing argument, perhaps. A closing argument. Yeah, it's a good way to end this. This episode is no joke. It's a very serious, very serious issue.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Well, thank you, Alice, for those thoughts. I have another thought.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It's an important month. But yeah, I agree with Alice 100%. And this is definitely the longest introduction we've ever had to a case, and that's fine. That's fine. This case deserves it. One case should have a longer introduction than this case.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Never seen a rabbit hole. I mean, gophers live in holes.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
That's a good point. Fine point, Alice. Fine point.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
That's why you are the best co-host in True Crime.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Happy April. Welcome to April. Thank you, Alice. All right. We'll be back tomorrow with the continuation of this case. But until then, I'm Brett. And I'm Alice. And we are the prosecutors. Okay. Yeah. So we're just going to, we're going to talk around it. We have just been, you know, we've gone so long.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
You know, we're just going to have to, we're going to have to really get into the case tomorrow.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Groundhog? I was just about to talk about the groundhog.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
We are so on the same page. So every year, I watch Groundhog Day. It's like a thing I do. Every February 2nd. Great movie you haven't seen. Have you seen it with Bill Murray?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It's a great movie. You know, the same thing happens over and over and over again.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
That was the joke. And you know what I always wondered? And I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this. Maybe we discuss this. I don't know. It's like Groundhog Day. So Groundhog Day now, if you say it's like Groundhog Day, people know that that means it's like the same day is happening over again. I assume that comes from the movie, right? Yeah.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Yeah, but I just want to make sure. Because it's possible that people always use that idiom. It's like Groundhog Day to mean a day that happens every year, right? And that the movie maker was like, what if it really was like Groundhog Day and every day was the same day? And I just don't know if it started that way with the idiom or if the idiom comes from the movie.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Idioms are weird. In Alabama, I don't know what it's like where you guys are from. And I'm sorry if this offends some of you. But I'll ask Alice. Alice, when the sun is shining and it's raining, what do you say? Do you have a phrase for that in your culture?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
In some places they call that sun showers or something like that. In the South, we say the devil is beating his wife.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So the devil is beating his wife, which I said, don't be offended. That's just what people say. Right. So where did that come from? I have no idea. I don't know who came up with that the first time. Right. But that's what people say. And so maybe Groundhog Day was the same way. People just said. Man, you know, today was just like yesterday. It's like Groundhog Day.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And people are like, yeah, I know what you mean.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
There you go. It probably would not be as fun as Groundhog Day.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Oh, rabbit trails and holes. Yeah, so... Was that a rabbit trail that we just went down?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
We're going to talk about trails through the forest in this case.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Do turtles make trails? Because turtles and rabbits often go together. I don't know why.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
But I see what you're saying. But it's weird that turtles live on the land and in the water at the same time.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Absolutely they can drown. I don't know that I knew that. I mean, I guess I did know that.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Here we go. Here we go. Another story. I'm sorry, guys. Here we go.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
After this story, we're getting started, though. So go ahead.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Well, That's a good question. What is the difference between a turtle and a tortoise? Can one of them live underwater or do they both have to breathe air?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So you don't think they're related. They're just like.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
And we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors. I hope you're ready. It's what you've asked for more than anything else. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined as... Hey, hey. That's... You're already messing up. You're already messing up. So, you know, we gotta... Why did I just do that?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
There are turtles in that pond in the park. Oh, for sure. You always see their little noses sticking out of the water. I've seen that so they can breathe.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
all i'm saying what would the rocks what would the rocks have to do with anything oh because they can stand on the rocks correct correct it was a place to rest so that they could breathe because they would otherwise paddle until they could no longer paddle have you ever had turtle soup yeah of course it's a very new orlean thing that's what i was about to say yeah i went to commander's palace for the first time last year that's what they're famous for a turtle man it's so good
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
The first time I ever saw turtle soup was the first time I ever went to a Vietnamese restaurant. It was a nice Vietnamese restaurant in Georgetown. And the person sitting across from me was having turtle soup. And at that restaurant, which, like I said, was very nice, it was served in the shale. Oh, wow.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
See, that reminds me of like a she-crab soup, what you're describing. You ever had she-crab soup? Oh, she-crab soup is one of my favorites. I love she-crab soup. Oh, God. I'm making myself hungry. Are there he-crabs? I always wondered the same thing. And if you make she-crab soup, do you have to make sure it's like a female crab? Like, is that particular?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
It's kind of like how all... I think all chicken we eat is...
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
If you're listening, I want you to tell us whether or not roosters have testicles.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
There's no telling where you're going with this. Have you killed a rooster, too? I'm not.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
In law class, not so much. So here's a question about that. And I'm sorry to keep going down rabbit trails on this, but you just keep raising questions.
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
So if you have a hen, I don't know anything about this. And I know this is really popular amongst sort of the hipster set these days. Do we still have hipsters?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Do you need a rooster to cause the chicken to lay eggs?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Or do you not want a rooster because you want eggs that are not fertilized?
The Prosecutors
298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation
Does a rooster protect the hens because it's got those spurs?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Especially if one of those Brady violations is going to be based...
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
on a note and they talk about this they talk about how they're you know they were drawing this motion it's not supported by law in fact and they say you know there are these two brady allegations and we talked about this in our episode and they talk about the brady standard they talk about the brady standard a lot more than the initial motion to vacate did which talked about almost none of the law for reasons that are now pretty obvious and they say that nothing the mosby team pointed to met the burden
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The two notes that were allegedly Brady material were both already available to the defense. And to the extent they were relevant to any alternative suspect, those suspects were already known to the defense. And we learn even more about these notes. One of them is like hearsay within hearsay within hearsay. It's an anonymous person.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
So he's trying to do that. And that's going on in court. But right before that was... I don't know if I have words to describe it. So years ago, it seems like now. I mean, I guess it was in 2022. It's funny because Alice... And our journey in this case started in 2022 when this vacator motion was filed by Marilyn Mosby in Baltimore to vacate Adnan's conviction to let him out of prison.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
One of the, you know, we talked about, and I'm sorry, if you don't know anything about this case, you're going to be confused this whole time. Go back and listen. You got like 18 episodes to listen to. But we talked about Bilal Ahmed and we talked about his ex-wife. Initially, this is mind-blowing that they let this happen. So initially, like she wouldn't talk to the investigators.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Apparently, Adnan went to her house and like sat down with her at the kitchen table to get... What eventually became an affidavit in support of all this that, you know, he waved around and talked about, I think, in his press conference, his multi-hour press conference he had.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Which, by the way, yesterday in his motion for resentencing, while he's explaining why he shouldn't have to go back to prison, he talked about how he's kept a low profile because, you know, he hasn't engaged in any media because he doesn't want to re-harm people. Heyman Lee's family. And it's like, do you ever stop lying?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I mean, you have been lying for so many years and you lie to our face in ways that are so obvious. You sat there in like the kindergarten room, whatever it is, the daycare and gave. Hours and hours of a press conference where you accused everybody under the sun of being involved in this conspiracy to frame you and took absolutely no responsibility for what you did.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And then you stand in court and you lie to the judge who has your fate in their hands. Just the absolute lack of shame by Adnan Syed and everyone associated with him is astonishing. But that's an aside. I'll get back to the executive summary. They go on to say that the SRT, as Al said, never spoke to Kevin Urich. These are his notes. Half of it is you couldn't read it.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
You know how when you take notes and it's in your handwriting, so you're the only one who can read it? This is the situation. They didn't even bother to ask him what it said. And in this summary, it describes this as shocking, and I'll read you what it says. Shockingly, the SRT did not ask Mr. Urich about his handwritten notes.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
They did not ask him to decipher his somewhat illegible handwriting or to interpret his notes otherwise. They did not ask him if he had any independent recollections regarding the notes. Most shockingly, they did not ask him if he withheld the notes from the defense or about his discovery practices in 1999 and 2000.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
When interviewed by this office, Mr. Urich provided substantial information about the notes that differs materially from what is represented in the MV.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Moreover, when the SRT filed the motion to vacate, they did everything in secret. We talked about this. They all talked to the judge. And they played fast and loose with the facts. And they didn't say the names of their suspects. Like, we didn't know who they were. And one of the reasons for that is because everybody knew who Bilal was and Alonzo Sellers.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And in fact, the defense knew about both of them and investigated them. And they knew about this whole theory that is laid bare in this filing, that essentially Adnan was being groomed by Bilal. that he was one of his quote-unquote boyfriends, and that was while Bilal killed Hay because he was jealous of her, which makes no sense because he would have killed her after they broke up.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But, you know, whatever. I guess Nisha and Silver Springs. It's just lucky Bilal didn't know about her. But that's this theory, and perhaps most stupidly of all, you know, in order for there to be a Brady violation... You have to have something that's not turned over.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But the review indicated that the notes had indeed been turned over to the defense, meaning they couldn't have been Brady material at all. In fact...
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The SRT relied entirely on the fact that the current defense attorney couldn't find them in the file to determine this was a Brady violation, despite the fact the file has passed from person to person over the last 25 years, including the attorney grievance committee, Rabia Chowdhury. I think it lived in her trunk for several years. Susan Simpson, post-conviction attorneys, appellate attorneys.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
and exonerate him later on because of all this injustice against him. And at the time, we had not covered the case. And it was actually this abomination of emotion that set in our coverage of the case. So I'm glad that Marilyn Mosby allowed us to do our 14 episodes on Adnan.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
and current counsel. And there were other documents that should have been in there that everyone knows were turned over. And in fact, documents created by the defense itself that were missing, which indicates that these two pieces of paper not being in the file were not actually Brady violations.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And if emails and comments would be to believe, convince thousands of people who used to believe that Adnan Saad was innocent, that he is actually, in fact, guilty. Absolutely. And that motion had a long and winding path through the courts before it finally was struck down by the Supreme Court of Maryland. And it came back to the Baltimore state attorney's office.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I mean, and I just have to reiterate, this wasn't necessary. The motion to vacate and the DNA actually don't have really anything to do with each other. The DNA... Was what she used later to say, we're not going to recharge him. We're formally exonerating him and all this other stuff. Right. So you could have even left this out when discussing the motion to vacate.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But he wants to correct all of the misinformation. And this is so huge. This stuff makes me mad. And it makes me mad on behalf of all of you, because all of you were misled on such a basic level. You were misled by people that you were supposed to trust, people that had the trust of the state of Baltimore.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
You were misled by podcasters and creators who sold you this lie that Adnan Syed had been exonerated because of DNA. You were misled by the mainstream media in Baltimore, the national press everywhere. Everyone who should have taken a moment to think about this. You didn't need this to know how weak this was. We knew it. We're not brilliant. We're not geniuses.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
We don't have some secret knowledge that the rest of the world lacks. But all of these people went along with this to sell you a lie. They lied to you that Adnan Syed is innocent. So you would accept this lie. charade, this fraud. And I just gotta tell you, now Roz, we're in the middle of this. If you are a graduate of Georgetown University, there is a murderer teaching on your campus right now.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And Ivan Bates, who some of you may know from a documentary advocating for Adnan's innocence, where he talked about how he thought Adnan was innocent, had an opportunity to reconsider the motion. And issue a new opinion on that, whether he was going to stand behind it or withdraw it. And oh, my goodness, did he take his obligations seriously?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And if you're giving money to them, or if you have any connection to them, you need to let them know that you don't like the fact that students at Georgetown are being taught by a murderer who is lauded by that campus and lauded by that university as some sort of hero, when in fact all he is is a coward of a man who killed a woman because she didn't want to be with him.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And you should be angry about that, and this should make you even more angry. There is so much anger to go around in this case, and all of this should infuriate you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
So in the conclusion of the executive summary, we're going to talk briefly about the 88 pages because there's so much because basically the executive summary lays it out. And then the 88 pages is just all this detail. It's insane. So here's what the summary, the conclusion says.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
As licensed attorneys and officers of the court, this office cannot adopt the false and misleading statements and unsubstantiated conclusions in the MVJ that the state violated its Brady obligations in state versus Syed.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Indeed, as the moving party, this office is compelled to bring the faults and misleading statements to the court's attention, which just goes back to how serious this is, that they have to do this. And I mean, maybe you think Ivan Bates just really wanted to go after not just Marilyn Mosby, but other people who had worked in that office.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
As prosecutors, we are sworn to seek justice and uphold the law. This office approached this case as it does every case, asking the question, how do we get to justice? Based on an exhaustive review, the only answer to that question is, is to withdraw the MVJ and provide an explanation for the decision to the Lee family, Mr. Seid and his family, and the public who may have an interest.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Mr. Seid's case has been the subject of protracted post-trial litigation, all of which has ultimately resulted in the affirmance of the jury's verdict beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of the murder of Haemin Lee. And let me just read you this next part because it's almost like they listened to our episode and just decided to quote it.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
However, properly shifting this burden back to Mr. Syed will reinstill the adversarial nature of proceedings that are the hallmark of the truth-seeking function of our criminal justice system. Amen.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The Office of the State's Attorney for Baltimore City is hopeful that this decision will give young Lee and the entire Lee family some closure on this protracted process that has caused more grief to the family and will help to restore a sense that justice will prevail in the murder of his sister. Amen, Lee.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
As a final note, Mrs. Mosby represented to the court that this was an open and ongoing investigation, and that was represented to you as well. This office's review of this matter has not revealed that there was ever an open investigation into any purported alternative suspects in the murder of Hayman Lee.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
BPD similarly reported that it did not have an active investigation, and this office will not ask for one to be opened.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And you will have people out there who are defenders of Adnan Syed who will tell you that there's nothing in this filing indicating that Bates thinks he's guilty. That should be the last time you listen to those people. Because they're either willfully ignorant or, once again, they're lying to you. I mean, that paragraph right there, that tells you all you need to know.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Ivan Bates might have thought Adnan Syed was innocent when he was a citizen, but when he got in and saw the evidence, he said, nope. Nope. And he said, I'm not pinning my credibility on this murderer. And he lays it all out in this document. I mean, it is a just tour de force. If you're looking for something to answer all your questions about Adnan Sayed, don't worry about our 14 episodes.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Just read this. Read all 88 pages.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Yeah. And by the time you reach that point, you will have concluded that there was definitely a corrupt prosecutor in this case, but it wasn't the one who prosecuted Adnan Syed. It was the one who then subsequently was convicted of multiple felonies and is a felony at this time. And if she hasn't already lost her license, she should lose it after this.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But we'll just have to see what happens there. Now, as we said, this is a companion to the Juvenile Restoration Act attempt by Adnan Syed to stay out of prison. Ivan Bates has definitively withdrawn this motion. Some people, when he initially withdrew it, were like, well, maybe he just wants to replace it with a different one. No, that's not going to happen. This is done.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
If Adnan Syed's going to have his conviction vacated, it's going to have to be some way out. Now... What's going to happen with the hearing? They had an all day hearing on this. He put on a bunch of witnesses about how wonderful he is. There was very powerful testimony by young Lee and by Heyman Lee's mother. A lot of tears, very moving. The judge was obviously moved by it.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The judge noted that she was going to issue a written order. She did not say what she's going to do. I'll give you my prediction. Number one, I think she didn't say because I think she wants Adnan to suffer a little bit longer. I think she wants him to lay in bed for the next few nights wondering whether or not he's going to have to go back to prison.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I do not think she will send him back to prison, though I will say this. Her comments to him were... She wasn't buying it. She's not like the last judge who was a willing accomplice to the fraud that was being perpetrated on the court. She was very clear that the victim in this case was Heyman Lee, not Adnan Syed. Nevertheless, I don't think she'll send him back. I think he'll stay out.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
It's unfortunate that he's never going to admit what he did. I will say this. The one good thing about her releasing him without any conditions is he'll no longer be in custody. which means he no longer has a real legal vehicle to challenge his conviction. The only legal vehicles he would have would be something called a writ of quorum nobis, which is incredibly difficult to succeed in.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I may be one of the only lawyers in the country who's actually litigated that all the way to a federal circuit of appeals. Ended up actually reaching an agreement with the other side and letting it go forward. So it was actually granted. almost never happens. I wish we could tell maybe one day when I lose my job, we can tell that story because the whole case is crazy.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Just an insane case that you guys would love, but there's that, but it almost never succeeds. And the other thing would be if like one day there was actual evidence, like they actually found real DNA of Balal, you know, on hay and were able to definitively prove that, That Adnan was not guilty. Usually in most states, there's some sort of DNA statute.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
We're seeing this in the West Memphis three that even that you can pursue, even if you're not in custody to sort of clear your name. So the avenues to clear his quote unquote, clear his name are basically zero if he's released from prison. So I think if.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
things go the way i expect it to he'll be free he'll always claim to be innocent and there will be many many people who believe it's true but he'll also always be a convicted murderer which is important because he is a murderer whether he's convicted or not but i think it's at least some justice to have the state officially recognize what he is
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I would write two opinions, one releasing him and one sending him back to prison for the rest of his life. And I would call him back to court. And I would tell him, I have two opinions written here. One of them releases you without conditions. One of them sends you back to prison for the rest of your life.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
If you would like to go free, you have to stand there and admit what you did and tell us exactly what happened that day. You have 30 minutes to think about it. Come back in here in 30 minutes and you let me know what you're going to do. And if he did not confess, I'd send it back for the rest of his life. That's what I would do. She's probably not going to do that, but I would love to see that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The world is not amazing enough for that to happen. So I will take... Alice's middle ground that he has to go back for the time he's been out. I'll take that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And he apologized to the family at the hearing for what had happened.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Yeah. And look, I mean, if what happens is what I expect to happen and that motion is filed and he's freed but guilty, I don't think we'll ever mention Adnan Saad again. And I hope not to because he's not worth your time. He's not worth any of our time. The only reason we've had to talk about him so much is because of the same reason that Ivan Bates felt compelled to write an 88 page motion.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And look, I think we're going to go through this. I mean, we're not going to go through the whole thing. We're going to give you a summary of this filing. You should read it. There's an executive summary. It's like nine or ten pages long. You should read that. If you care about this case, you should read the 88-page filing. Yeah, it's a legal filing.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
There is value in facing this kind of injustice and calling it what it is. And you know what? I love this podcast. I'm glad we did this podcast. Calling Adnan Syed a murderer and saying that Adnan Syed is guilty is one of the proudest things I've ever done. If that's all we got out of this podcast, it was worth it. And I'm glad that we could be some tiny voice of truth.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But Ivan Bates roared like a lion in this filing. And he deserves all the credit in the world for it. Yeah.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I mean, we can. Sure. Why not? Let's answer.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
How's little guy doing while we're over here? I don't know.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
i don't know he's fine he learns his bliss okay let's okay so this is legal briefs right so we gotta do a legal yes question remember you leave a five-star review and leave a question answer your question and there are fewer legal briefs questions than regular questions so you can sort of get right to the front of the line if you do a legal briefs question okay let's see
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I'll ask you this one, but I don't actually have an answer for this. So this is from Kat. Kat wants to know, I'm a nanny and say some pretty funny things to the kiddos. Like if you play on your iPads all day, you'll have a chicken noodle soup brain. What are some weird things you caught yourself saying to your kids?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The thing about kids is they really challenge your ability to explain things because they're always asking you questions that you don't actually know the answer to. Or that are either so complicated or like sensitive that you don't want to tell them exactly how something happens, right? My daughter is always talking about when I die.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Some of it will be hard for you to understand, but a lot of it won't. A lot of it is just shocking documentation of this fraud on the court. And look... The most annoying thing in the world is when people pat themselves on the back and we would never do that. But I just want to say, if you go back and listen to all of our episodes on this, starting in 2022, we nailed this from the very beginning.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And like what she's going to do when I die and, and how like when she's a hundred, I'll only have a little while left to live and stuff like that. And because she doesn't really understand it. So she's always asking me these questions about like, what happens when you die and like all this other stuff. And it's just like, man.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
So I don't know that I have funny things that I'm always saying to him as much as if he recorded me trying to explain complex questions to them, it would be hilarious. Yeah.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I'm always telling people I'm going to go to the potty. I was like, I got to go to the potty. They're like, oh, okay.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And I'm like, what? Did I tell you the baptism story? Have I told this story? No, no. So we go to church and in my church, we don't, we don't baptize infants. We baptize like adults. Right. So there was a, like a girl in the youth group who was getting baptized. And so, you know, my kids go to Sunday school during the preaching or whatever.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And so they brought all the kids out so they could see it. So they see the whole baptism and everything. And, and after they go out, I go to pick up the kids and my daughter is like on the edge of tears. And she's like, daddy, I don't want you to get baptized. And I was like, baby, what's wrong? And she's like, I'm not ready for you to go to heaven. And I was like,
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
baby she's like baby oh they're not taking madison madison's the name of the girl they're not taking her out back to like put her put her down or anything baby that it's so that one day when you die you'll go to heaven it's not she's gonna go to heaven right now but in her mind she was like she's getting baptized to go to heaven so she's she's gonna die now and it
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
It was just the tears on the corner of her eyes. And I was like, I was baptized a long time ago, baby. It's okay.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But that's the thing. With kids, you never know how they're going to take the simplest thing. That's one of the joys of parenting, I guess.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
So I just want to get that out of the way. But the other thing I want to say. Before we get started, because I think this is really important because the same grifters, fraudsters and charlatans who always protect Adnan Syed will be out there trying to undermine this as well. It is so important who this is from. I cannot overstate the fact that Ivan Bates.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I love it, Alice. I love it. Thank you. Beautiful. Wonderful. You're the best.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Yeah. Instead of having other investigators on operation trash pandas.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Is in a documentary, an HBO pro Adnan documentary talking about his feeling there was some sort of an injustice here. Number one. Number two, one of Adnan's biggest supporters, Colin from Undisclosed, when Ivan Bates won. I remember this. When he won the nomination to be the state's attorney, tweeted about how exciting it was because Ivan Bates was a supporter of Adnan Syed.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And maybe finally we would have this opportunity for justice. And he was under immense public press, all kinds of pressure to just do it again. Every single mainstream coverage of Adnan Syed is always that he is innocent. That is what they always say. The easiest thing in the world would have been for him just to say, we're going to stand behind the motion to vacate.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
We think you should move forward. He could have done that. But instead, he actually looked at the evidence and the record, information he would not necessarily have had back when he was doing that documentary, and produced this document. This document is damning for anybody. remaining belief that Adnan Syed did not commit this crime. It is an astonishing piece of legal work.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And we're going to talk about the trash pandas later, but trash panda that, you know, man, look, we're going to talk a lot about this filing, this most recent filing in the Adnan Zayed case. Those of you who've missed it, Adnan is back in court. before Judge Jennifer Schiffer.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Yeah. And one thing I'll say before I read, I'm going to read his statement. And then we'll get into the executive summary. The other thing I'll say about this, this filing is not even about guilt or innocence. And they even say that it's not about a guilt or innocence. It's about whether or not they can support this motion to vacate.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
And legally, that's what they're doing, because theoretically, the judge could deny the motion to vacate. The judge could say, well, you know, I'm gonna leave it. So they even say, look, this isn't about his guilt and innocence. Which makes it even more astonishing that they spend so much time reiterating the strength of the evidence against Adnan Syed. I mean, it is the whole thing is remarkable.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
It's amazing. OK, so I'm going to start. I'll read you the statement. Basically, there are three documents. There's Ivan Bates statement. There's an executive summary, and then there's the document itself. We'll spend most of our time on the statement and the executive summary. I wish we could do like five episodes on this document because it really deserves that.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
But y'all are just going to have to read the 88 pages for yourself, and you should.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
I had a long day yesterday and I was like, man, I got to read this so we can do a podcast on it. And I started reading it and I was just following on Twitter. I was just constantly like, I cannot believe what I'm reading. So you should check it out. OK, so here's his statement.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
The press release after a thorough review of the motion to vacate judgment filed by the previous administration in the case of Adnan Syed. My office has determined that it contains false and misleading statements that undermine the integrity of the judicial process. This is the Maryland state's attorney discussing a filing by his immediate predecessor.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
As prosecutors, our duty is to seek justice and ensure that all legal proceedings are conducted transparently, accurately, and fairly. While I did not ask for this task, it was remanded to my office by the Supreme Court of Maryland.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
Thus, we have a duty as Maryland Barred Attorneys, prosecutors tasked with pursuing justice, and officers of the court to address false and misleading statements in the state's legal filings, a duty that we take extremely seriously."
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
as such we cannot adopt the falsehoods and misleading statements in the motion to vacate judgment nor fail to bring them to the court's attention for these reasons i formally withdraw the motion to vacate judgment i did not make this decision lightly but it is necessary to preserve the credibility of our office and maintain public trust in the justice system.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
My administration remains fully committed to reviewing cases where wrongful convictions or miscarriages of justice may have occurred. However, we will do so with the highest standards of integrity and a commitment to truth. I recognize the complexity and sensitivity of this case. I hope this comprehensive review and my ultimate decision brings closure to all parties involved.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
He's now seeking to have his, actually his stay out of prison continue because under the Juvenile Restoration Act or something, I forget exactly what it's called, but it's a Baltimore law that essentially says if you were sentenced to life in prison or a very long prison term back in the 90s when we were so uneducated and barbaric that we would do that to people who were not 18 when they were sentenced, you can seek to have your sentence reduced.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
This is not someone saying this in the press. It's not us saying in a podcast. It's not a YouTuber just throwing out barbs. This is the elected chief prosecutor for Baltimore accusing former attorneys in his office of lying to the court.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- The Adnan Syed Innocence Fraud Exposed
which is one of the most serious accusations you can make against an attorney, the kind of accusation that can result in you having your bar license suspended and, frankly, could even land you in jail in the right circumstances. Probably not this one, but this one could definitely have you facing consequences from the bar.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So she's got more than enough to do that. She's got twice as much as you would need to make you fall asleep. and that doesn't include the amount in her stomach, 0.5 grams, is considered a toxic amount of quaaludes. So the fact that she's got so much in her stomach and in her blood, now this is a lot, right? I mean, she's pretty close to having a toxic dose.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And in fact, if what was in her stomach had entered her blood, maybe she does have a toxic dose. Now she had been on it a while, it's gonna build up some tolerance. So obviously it's gonna affect you a little differently, but this is a lot. This is a lot of quaaludes in her body. She also had a blood alcohol level of around 0.02.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
This is not a ton of alcohol, and in fact, it's low enough it could be an error in testing. But we know that when she was at this event, there was no alcohol. She was drinking iced tea. No one at the union meeting had alcohol. There was no alcohol present, and there was no alcohol nearby. There was nowhere to get alcohol. I don't know what's going on here.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Like I said, possible that this is just a mistake. And while if she did have a little bit of alcohol in her system, that would have exacerbated the effect of the Quaaludes, but she didn't have a prescription for it. She wasn't abusing these. but it's a pretty low amount. I think it's probably an error, frankly. People have been trying to figure it out for a long time.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I think it's probably just an error. She was not wearing a seatbelt, which contributed to her death, though we just put a picture of the car on the screen for people who are watching it. This is a terrible accident. I mean, essentially the entire front part of this car is pushed into the driver's compartment. She would not have survived this. It didn't really matter if she was wearing a seatbelt.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
In fact, in some strange way, if she'd been thrown from the car, she might have had more of a chance to survive than being in that car when she had that impact. So her autopsy revealed that she did have, and this is probably no surprise given what we have learned so far, dangerously high levels of plutonium really throughout her system.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
In her lungs, in her blood, everywhere, she has plutonium all through her.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Thankfully, Chernobyl happened.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I don't know if we're going to say that's thankful or not. But so Chernobyl gave us a lot of information on the effect of radiation on the body. And as well as a few accidents that happened beforehand, the demon core that we mentioned before. And the thing that is terrifying about radiation, number one, the long term effect of plutonium is cancer.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
You know, if you have plutonium in your system, if you're exposed to radiation, you're much more likely to have cancer later on in your life. Though, one thing that's interesting, if you've listened to Radioactive, which is the ABC special, They they totally go in that this is a conspiracy. That is their position. And I respect them for laying that out from the beginning.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
But also say they did a lot of investigation, which revealed some stuff that cuts against their theory. One of those was they talked to an expert at the time. It was actually believed that Plutonium was much more dangerous. It's very dangerous, but much more dangerous now.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
than even it is that the cancer risk was much higher and in fact the amount of exposure she had had probably would have only had a moderate increase in her cancer risk acute radiation sickness which she did not have and she was not exposed to enough radiation to have it is terrifying because once you are exposed to a fatal dose of radiation you are dead
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Your body hasn't caught up to the fact yet, but you are dead. You don't know it. You feel fine. There's no sort of mental effects, nothing like that. But what has essentially happened is your bone marrow is dead and you can no longer reproduce anything.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
cells so your body almost rots around you while you're still alive and death is horrific it's a terrible way to die your skin just sort of sloughs off you bleed out it's awful but a plus is at least you know your mind remains perfectly fine to experience all this so in short
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
The effect on her physically, mentally would have been negligible to the extent anything's going on with her causing her to be drowsy, for instance, or to have this this accident or maybe to be experiencing some paranoia, whether justified or not, would not have been caused by the plutonium.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
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The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
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The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
In fact, Gab's phones and watches are built with smart filtration that proactively blocks harmful content Before ever reaching your child. Like Alice, I have young kids, my daughter this Christmas, she said, daddy, can I get one of those watches that does everything? And I knew exactly what she was talking about. And frankly, my thought was, no, there's no way you can.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
But that's the great thing about Gab is it makes these products, including watches that do everything and that don't do everything. And that certainly don't allow your kids to access all the things you don't want them to see. Protecting your kids has never been easier. For the best deals, sign up to Gab today. No contract required at Gab.com slash prosecutors.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
That's Gab, G-A-B-B dot com slash prosecutors. Gab.com slash prosecutors. Terms and conditions apply.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Okay, so November 20th, 1974, the OCAW, which is the Union, files a complaint with the Washington, D.C. Office of the United States Justice Department demanding that there be an investigation into what they call a bizarre plutonium contamination and the violent death of Karen Silkwood. So they are all in. They think... Whatever happened, there needs to be an investigation. And they get one.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I got to say, maybe you guys are all hating these cases, but I feel like this case and Aconcagua are some of the best we've done. I've really enjoyed them, and I've really enjoyed this one, and you're right. I love this kind of story where you have this mystery and a viable conspiracy, and I just love it. I love doing this kind of stuff.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
November 21st, the FBI begins to investigate the potential wrongdoings of Kerr McGee against Karen Silkwood. And as I said, you can now access that FBI report and read it. It's very interesting. So now we're in December of 1974. So about a month after Karen had taken... The test, remember, she had all those tests about the level of plutonium.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Remember, she had done those samples, the urine samples, the fecal samples. She'd actually spilled some of the urine sample, which was the theory about how her apartment was so contaminated because essentially she had plutonium all throughout her body. She takes a urine sample. She spills the urine. The urine has plutonium in it. Now plutonium is all over the bathroom.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
It then gets transferred all over the apartment. So she had turned those samples in. It takes a while to do that kind of work to find out exactly what those results are going to be. So in December, they get the results back. They're the results from the urine and fecal samples, and they are astonishing, stunning to anyone who sees them.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
They are extremely contaminated, so much so that looking at the sample, you could see the plutonium with the naked eye in these samples. Now, it was difficult, if not impossible, to imagine how this level of plutonium could have passed through Karen's body, which led to a conclusion which no one could really explain, and that's that Karen's test had been salted.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So, essentially, someone had added plutonium that had not passed through her body to the test. And the question was, who would have done that? Did Karen sort of spike her own kits to try and expose Kerr-McGee? Did someone within the company spike them to try and scare Karen into quitting or to intimidate her? Was it someone else altogether? Karen's urine was also found to contain uranium-205.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Now, why is this weird? Well, so there are lots of different isotopes of uranium. There's a lot of different isotopes of plutonium, and they're used for different functions. Uranium-205 was an isotope that was not associated with any of the work that Karen was doing at the facility.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So there didn't seem to be any way she could have come into contact with uranium-205, which only led to more speculation that this was an intentional act, that either someone had contaminated her or had contaminated the test on purpose.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Now let me say this, we have described this the way it is always described in coverage of this case. This is not true. It was something you could say back in the 80s and 90s and it sounded spooky, right? But now that we have the file, you can read the file. They absolutely investigated this. And whether you think they came to the right conclusion or not, you can read the file.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
You can read all the people they talked to. You can read the accident recreationist. I don't know if that's what we call them, reconstructionist. You can read all the various things they did. You can read the files between the U.S. attorney and the FBI. Whether or not you agree with them, it is not the case that the FBI talked to somebody at Kerr-McGee and then closed the file.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
In fact, they talked to a lot of people that Karen knew. In fact, a lot of the things we have mentioned come from the file, including interviews with people who were at that meeting that night and their description of her are in that file. Whenever we do these cases, we have a website, prosecutorspodcast.com.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Yeah, if I die under mysterious circumstances, I want a world-class, famous actor to play me. Just like Karen Silkwood. If you want to watch the movie, it's called Silkwood. The movie has Cher in it. The roommate got played by Cher. She was just the roommate. She wasn't even Karen. I know. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I know a lot of you never go there, but we always put a lot of the links to the various things that we used as research for these cases. And one of them we will link to is the FBI file. Go read it. It's several hundred pages, but it's not an incredibly long file. And you can learn something. It looks just like the files we still get from the FBI for our cases.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So it's worth reading and it's worth checking out.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And I just want to raise one other possibility. We're going to talk about theories, but I don't think we have this as a theory, and it's not something I've ever heard anybody mention. But the presumption is always that Kerr McGee is the one who killed Karen. I think people should consider the fact that if she were murdered, it could have been a coworker.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Because not everyone would have agreed with what she was doing. And a lot of people would have seen the danger of what she was doing that would result in exactly this. The closing of the site, the loss of good jobs. Plenty of people working at that site didn't like the union. And you could imagine that she would draw a lot of attention from those people.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So something to think about when you're thinking through the case.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And this was obviously a really big deal. It was a case that was followed nationally. There was a lot of reporting on it. It was something that people were really into for all the reasons you could imagine. And it was a blockbuster trial. And when it ended in 1979, the jury found Kerr-McGee liable.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And they actually awarded the estate, Karen's estate, $10.5 million, which was a lot of money in 1979 for personal injury and punitive damages. Now, what's interesting about this is. there were a lot of different charges leveled against Kerr-McGee. Kerr-McGee survived all of what you might consider the conspiratorial aspects of this.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
But what they didn't survive was the fact that plutonium got off of that property. The fact that plutonium was found at Karen's apartment and in her body was frankly enough, under the sort of the statutes and the way torts work, The fact that Kerr McGee had not they had a duty as a company that produces kind of material to keep that material out of the public and on the property.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And we've talked about this a little bit in the last episode. This case and this story was so famous in the 70s and 80s. And it just goes to show how sort of the zeitgeist moves on. Right. Like I bet in 1982, if you'd have said the name Karen Silkwood, everybody would have known who you were talking about.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And they had failed at that duty. However, it happened. Whatever you think happened, they had failed. As we talked about, they had no security in this place. You could have walked out with a bag full of plutonium if you wanted to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
But now I'm sure most of you listening to this, maybe not most of you, but a good number of you have never heard of this case. I had not heard of this case.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
until we started covering it and i consider myself pretty well versed in the world of conspiracies so this has been exciting for me hopefully this is everybody out there listening is not like what are you talking about everybody knows this story you losers but it's it's a good one and i hope you guys are enjoying it as much as we are
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
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The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
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The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
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The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
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The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Air Doctor comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee plus a three-year warranty and $84 value, free. Get this exclusive podcast-only offer now at airdoctorpro.com. A-I-R-D-O-C-T-O-R-P-R-O dot com. Using promo code PROSECUTORS. Okay, so I think that brings us to our theories of the case. And I'll go ahead and start.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So I think, obviously, at first glance, the Occam's razor theory here is this was an accident. She fell asleep, she got in a wreck, she died. That's not what I actually think happened. And I want to go through sort of why that is and sort of walk you through my own theory of what happened here. First of all, let's look at the evidence both for she was awake and murdered and she fell asleep.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Because what is striking about this case is how much evidence there is for both. And how do we reconcile that? So let's start with awake and murdered. So there was a small amount of damage to the bumper. The bumper was damaged and that was indicative, many people thought, of someone struck her in the back and forced her off the road to her death.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Now, as we said earlier, there was no evidence on the ground of breaking. So remember, she goes from the right lane across the left lane into the grass and the mud, and she drives for the length of a football field before striking the culvert. So she is driving for quite a period of time on the grass. So you don't see a lot of evidence of braking.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And it seemed like that the car hit the culvert at less than highway speed. So the no braking might be an argument for, oh, she was asleep because she didn't brake. But when you look at how the accident happened, it seems like she wasn't going at highway speed when she struck it.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And the only way that she could have been going about 20 miles less than highway speed was if she did hit the brakes at some point, which would indicate that she was awake before this happened. As we said earlier, she had these injuries to her arm and the way the steering wheel was damaged that indicated that she was awake and bracing when she hit the culvert.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Generally speaking, if you fall asleep, you tend to go to the right. So imagine the average person. I don't know whether she was left handed or right handed. Most people are right handed. You're right hand dominant. If you fall asleep, typically the last thing you do is you're falling asleep is you fall to the right and you jerk the car to the right and your car goes off the right.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
That's typically what happens when someone falls asleep in a car. Obviously, if you're left handed, it might be different. Like I said, I don't know if she was left handed, but typically you see someone go to the right.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
But the other thing that's interesting about this is because of the way this accident happened, you would expect that if she had gone to sleep, given where this was, and you would have to look to see this, but this is what investigators say, that if she had just fallen asleep and drifted off the road, even if she went to the left, even if she went over the left lane, she would have gone into the grass and missed the culvert.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
She would have just drifted off into the culvert. Eventually, you know, she would have ran into something else or she would have woken up. The other thing that's interesting about this going to the left thing, most roads are built such that there is a rise in the middle of them, even if it's slight, because the rain then washes off the road, right? Right.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Well, once again, if you go to sleep, you would think the most natural thing would be to go to the right because you're going downhill. So this is all an indication that she was awake. Something happened. She wasn't asleep. There was something else going on here. Moreover, there was no attempt to move the car off a straight line. It did just that.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
It went in a straight line, which indicated the car was under some sort of control. Right. Like you would think if she was asleep, you know, the car would have gone sort of like whatever way it would have gone. It wouldn't just gone straight into this culvert. And there was another sign of control.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
At the very last moment, the car turned to the right, indicating that someone was in control of the vehicle at at least the last minute. And the papers that she intended to give to The New York Times were missing. And the papers that were in the car weren't muddy, which is unusual because witnesses would testify there was a lot of mud on the ground.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And look, I think it's funny how this case, there's the legend of this case and there's the reality. I think it's probably true that Kerr McGee was searching her apartment, but I think they were searching her apartment still trying to figure out how this happened. It is likely almost certain.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
and that they had seen some papers on the ground and a police officer had actually picked those up and put them back in the car and they would have thought they would have been muddy, but the papers they eventually found weren't muddy. So these are all sort of indications of something weird going on here. And that's a lot, right?
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I mean, that's a lot of evidence that she's awake when this happens, which would indicate that she was hit from behind. But let's look at the evidence she fell asleep. So she didn't have a large amount of quaaludes in her body, far more than necessary to cause severe drowsiness in most people. And in fact,
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
A lot in her stomach that was undigested, which indicates that she had been taking them shortly before her death. To the extent that if that had been digested, the level in her blood might have even been at toxic levels. That's a lot. and the kind of thing that would make you think maybe someone could fall asleep. She hadn't been sleeping. That's why she was on the Quaaludes.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
She was incredibly stressed out. She was incredibly paranoid and concerned. She couldn't go to sleep. That's why she'd been given the Quaaludes in the first place, which means she was in a pretty bad place physically and mentally when she was in that car. The people at the meeting had been concerned that she was not fit to drive.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
In fact, they had offered to drive her home because they were so worried about her. There are no skid marks on the road. You hear that there were skid marks sometimes. That appears to be a rumor. Everyone, the witnesses, the highway patrol, the FBI, even people who think that something mysterious happened to her, the New York Times reporter, They just don't report these skid marks.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So it just doesn't seem like there are skid marks. Now, why is that important? Someone hits you from behind. They force you off the road. You slam on the brakes. You're suddenly moved off your straight line to go to the left. There's going to be skid marks. You're going to leave something behind and there's nothing there.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And as we said, there's no evidence of heavy braking once the car went off the road. Now, this can go either way, as we said earlier. But think about it. If you had just been hit from behind and forced off the road, what are you going to do? You're going to slam on the brakes. And so you would expect to see a bunch of torn up ground as you're slamming on the brakes to try and stop.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
and there was no attempt to move that car off a straight line after it went off the road you would think if someone had hit you from behind you would be spinning the wheel you would be turning you would be losing control once again you would see all this evidence so this is all evidence that she fell asleep and the problem with all this is it's so contradictory you see this evidence that she was awake you see this evidence that she was asleep and how do you reconcile this
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And in fact, even people who think there's something conspiratorial about her death believe that Kerr-McGee didn't really know about the documents. Because if they had had reason to suspect that, they could have fired her pretty easily. And that would have been the natural thing to do. So it's probably unlikely that Kerr-McGee was aware of this at the time.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Well, I think you reconcile it the same way you reconcile the unusual aspects about her radiation poisoning. How is it possible that she could have those levels of radiation when she wasn't contaminated when she left the plant, when there's no evidence of contamination in the places she worked?
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
When you see radiation from isotopes that weren't even in the area she was working and you see them in her apartment when her roommate and her boyfriend, who were both at the apartment, didn't have any radiation. And then you see the salted samples that come back, plutonium that could not have gone through her body. And you think, how is this possible? And you might say, well, Kerr-McGee.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
They're trying to scare her. They're trying to freak her out. They're trying to make her think she's contaminated. That makes no sense. The last thing Kerr-McGee would want is an employee with that level of plutonium in their body because it confirms everything Karen had been saying. The thing that makes the most sense about the plutonium contamination is that Karen did it to herself.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
That she thought the one way I can prove this is happening is to do this, to salt my own samples, to show exactly what's going on here. And when she did that, Kerr-McGee immediately knew what was going on and they confronted her about it. And after they confronted her, she called The New York Times and said, hey, I'm ready to meet with you. I have all the documents.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And Karen, who was under immense pressure, who was a low level employee who probably could not have gotten these documents, even if she wanted to. There was only one thing she could do. And I think this was an intentional accident, but it wasn't someone else who did it. It was Karen. I think Karen chose to drive off the road that night into the culvert. I think this is essentially a suicide.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I think it is a similar case to the one we talked about with the lawyer from Guatemala, Rodrigo Marzano. Someone who was so passionate and believed so deeply in what they were doing that eventually they would take their own life.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I think the only way you can reconcile what happened to Karen, the fact that she's under control when she drives off that road, the fact that she drives over a football field in a straight line towards a culvert, only turning at the last moment, bracing herself against the steering wheel. before she is in a wreck indicates to me that this was intentional. I don't think she had any documents.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I don't think she could prove this. I think the only way out for her at that point was to do something like this. So never seen that theory before. It's going to be controversial, but that's what I think happened. I think at the end of the day, Karen took her own life.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
They're probably in her apartment looking for the source of the radiation. But you can see how as this story goes and given her mysterious death, people look back on things that happened and they see it as part of the conspiracy. Now, maybe it is. If you think there's a conspiracy here, then maybe they were doing that.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
But you can also see how that part of the story could develop naturally from everything that's happening.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
No, look, I think she was absolutely committed to the cause and she believed in it. And I think she totally thought that Kerr-McGee was cutting corners and they may very well have. This is not a defense of Kerr-McGee. And she was probably very worried about her coworkers and their health. And she thought they were being exposed to things. And she talked about that.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And they had already gone to Washington with all these concerns. And Washington tells them, we need some documentation. You're going to have to get something from the company to prove this. And just think about this. This is something nobody ever asks. How exactly would she have done that? She's a low level person. It's not like she's an executive.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
She's not even the kind of low level person like a secretary or something who might be able to get it. How is she going to get this? And she's the one tasked with doing it. She's the one with all the pressure on her to somehow produce this evidence.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
guys i don't know about you but this was a cold winter and i gotta tell you the one thing that warmed me up was a nice bottle of wine problem is i don't know anything about wine i know it comes in a bottle i know some of it's white i know some of it's red and that's about it But that's why I am a member of First Leaf.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
With First Leaf, not only do I get to enjoy personalized wine just for me, but I get to have fantastic bottles on hand to share with friends and family. And First Leaf is great at picking out wines based on my preferences. You fill out this little survey, you tell them how adventurous you want to be. and they are going to send you wines you are going to enjoy.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And that includes special occasion wines like sparkling wines. And getting started with First Leaf is a breeze. You answer those few quick questions about your wine preferences. They put together an amazing assortment of top-notch wines. It comes to you, and then you get to rate the ones you like so that every time you get a shipment of First Leaf wine, it's better every single time.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And when I say in-depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So, when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Homes.com. We've done your homework.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And think about the samples. Kerr-McGee was always pretty convinced that she had contaminated herself when she went home because she had no contamination when she left. And then all of a sudden her apartment's contaminated. So they thought she'd stolen some plutonium because of their lax security procedures and done this. Think about the samples themselves.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
okay maybe you think now that's ridiculous they were poisoning her for some reason okay fine they were poisoning her but think about the samples who would salt samples with so much plutonium that you could see it someone who doesn't really understand plutonium would do that The Kerr-McGee people, the experts, the people in the lab, they immediately recognized that's ridiculous. You can't do that.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
That's absurd. That didn't go through her system. Somebody did that. They put it in there. Who would have done that? She would not have necessarily known that. That's the kind of thing you do when you don't really understand plutonium. It's not the way, if you're Kerr-McGee in this sophisticated conspiracy, that you would do this.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
You wouldn't even bother to do that because you've already contaminated her, right? Like you've accomplished your mission. You wouldn't do that. You would understand that's not a mistake you would make if you're Kermagee. But the mistake was made. So somebody did that. Somebody did something that was so obviously false that they knew immediately it was false and reported that it was false.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I mean, Kermagee didn't say, wow. You know, it's hard to even imagine why Kerr-McGee would do this since they're trying to prove that they're safe. But assume they did it on purpose. They didn't say, man, she must have really been incompetent because only somebody who really didn't know what they were doing would have so much plutonium in their system. You can literally see it in their samples.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
They didn't say that. They said, this is absurd. Somebody salted these samples. Somebody tampered with these samples. There's no way this is what you would get. You have to explain that if you think that Karen wasn't attempting to sort of put some weight on the scales to prove to everyone that Kermagee was truly incompetent in how they were protecting workers.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And then there's the Quaaludes. So, you know, people try and argue away the Quaaludes, like I said earlier, maybe she's built up a tolerance so she can take more. Why would she be taking Quaaludes right before getting on the road? She took the Quaaludes so she could sleep because she couldn't sleep. She now has to drive to Oklahoma City. Quaaludes are not uppers.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
You know, she's not taking meth and having some bizarre reaction to it. Before she died, very soon before she died, she took a large number of Quaaludes, enough that there were still Quaaludes in her stomach that was undissolved, that was undigested.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
That seems like the kind of thing you would do if you're planning on doing something like running your car into a culvert and you're essentially numbing yourself to that fact.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And the last thing I'll say about this, I talked about this a little bit earlier, but I want to emphasize it. You don't drive 100 yards in a straight line with no braking if you've been hit from behind. That's not what you're going to do. And it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you do if you're asleep either. And there's that last minute turn of the wheel.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Now, it's possible that she somehow slept through everything up to that point. She wakes up, she turns the wheel. But I think the more likely thing is what you often see. It doesn't matter if you're intending to kill yourself. The last minute when the wall is right there, you're just going to react. And it seems like the kind of thing where someone's driving in a straight line.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
They're not hitting the brakes. They're intending to hit the wall. And then right before they get to the wall, they brace themselves. They turn the wheel at the last minute. Too late to save anything, but it's just a natural human reaction. So that's what I think happened. I don't think it'll ever be proven. I don't think it ever can be proven.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
One thing I'll say, if you listen to the Radioactive podcast, they never even consider this. But if you listen to the last episode, they have an accident reconstructionist who has the bumper. And listen to that episode. It is completely mysterious if you're not thinking about this theory. Listen to the episode with this theory. And I think it will all fit for you.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
The damage on the back of the bumper almost certainly was either caused by her prior accident or by the tow truck. The individual who really wanted to give the answer everybody wanted. He had worked before with the accident reconstructionists from the 70s who really believed this was some sort of intentional, someone had caused this to happen. He was good friends with him, considered him a mentor.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
He's a leading accident reconstructionist. He was the guy they wanted to do this because they trusted him. He said the damage on the bumper, it was impossible that that came from a car. It was not significant enough to do anything. And where it's positioned, there is no vehicle that was on the road at the time that if it ran into that car from behind would have done that kind of damage.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
It just wasn't possible. There wasn't a car low enough for it. So he's trying to explain what happened and he says a lot of the things we said and it's just completely mysterious for everybody. Like they can't really figure out how is this even possible? The only thing that ties it all together in my view is if it was intentional. I just don't think she fell asleep.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
I think she was in control of that car and I don't think anybody hit her. And that's where the evidence leads. And I don't want this to be some sort of indictment on her because I really believe that she was doing this from a good place.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Like I said, it reminds me of the gentleman in Guatemala who was trying to bring down this massive corruption he saw in his own country and was willing to give his own life to do it and thought that was the only way to make it happen. And I think she was in that position. She was the only person doing this. The union was in trouble.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
The company seemed like it had the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in its pocket and the senators in its pocket. There was nothing. Everything rested on her shoulders. And in many ways, what she did succeeded. She wanted to close that plant down. She said that. And she did.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So, you know, you can judge that for yourself, but I don't want to come off as some sort of criticism of her or defense of Kerr-McGee. It's not. I just think when you look at all the evidence and you put it together, suicide, I think, is the most likely solution.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And this is a really important point in the timeline. It also points to a contradiction in the timeline. Last episode, we told you that there is a report that on November 1st, she had had this conversation with Oka and said, hey, I got the documents. I'm ready to talk to the New York Times. That was 11 days before this. That report is a solo report from one source.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
Most of the reports that I've read, including in the FBI file, which we'll link to and you should read if you get the opportunity, it was released pursuant to a public records request, a FOIA request. It has a lot of information in it. And frankly, I think most people don't ever read.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
When you hear people discuss this case, and I'm really talking about the FBI file, so I would advise you to check it out. Most of the information is that this is when the call happens, November 12th. This is when she says, I've got the documents, I'm ready to turn them over.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
It doesn't really make sense that if she had all the documents that we would have waited 11 days over a week, given how serious this is, given the danger she considers herself to be under. It doesn't really make sense that she would have had them all back in November 1st. So I think that one source, is probably inaccurate.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
So I think this is really when the event happens, when she says to the union, I have the documents. I'm ready to turn them over. I'm ready to go public. And this is the day before everything is going to happen. So you can see how this conspiracy can now really be in motion. She has made an outsider aware of what she has, and then she's ready to go forward.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And then we're going to go to November 13th. So on November 13th, Karen returns to work. Now, she is reassigned to a different portion of the plant with different duties so as to no longer do radiation work. She's been contaminated multiple times. She's gone off to Los Alamos. She has a pretty heavy plutonium contamination, so they're trying to keep her away from that.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And she participates in some union negotiations. There's a union negotiation setting that day. She meets with the AEC inspectors concerning her own contamination because the fact that she is contaminated, whatever you think Kermagee is doing, they can't cover this up. The fact that she's contaminated means there's going to be an inspection. There's going to be an investigation.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
The Atomic Energy Commission is now there at Kermagee looking in to what happened. So at 530, and this is after work, Karen meets with OCAW members, the Hub Cafe in Crescent City, Oklahoma, and she's debriefing them on earlier negotiating sessions. Remember, the situation with the union is precarious. They're also negotiating a new contract. The union has just survived a no confidence vote.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
It's a very difficult situation for the union. While she's there, she drinks iced tea and she gives a brief presentation. Several people at the meeting recalled that Karen had a manila folder that had documents in it. Some describe them as Kerr-McGee documents. Others describe them as notes she has taken, notes in a notebook, that sort of thing.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
The speculation is that whatever was in that folder is what she was intending to bring to Burnham, who was the New York Times reporter, later that evening. Now, whatever the case, she was very emotional. Some attendees said she was crying. Some of them said that she seemed like she was in no condition to drive. She told one person who was there that she had gotten enough contamination to kill her.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And in fact, she said, someone is trying to kill me. That's what she said to people who were at this meeting.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, we conclude our look at the Karen Silkwood case. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined, as always, by my irradiated co-host, Alice.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
And obviously, I think you can already see the conspiracy starts to form, right? So she had these documents with her. She gets into an accident and now the documents are gone. There are scratches on the back of her bumper. So the theory is someone followed her. They hit her in the back of the bumper. They forced her to crash. She crashed and died. They took the opportunity to remove the documents.
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
They then left and you have a one car accident and a tragic fatality. That is the story that a lot of people have believed, and that has driven this whole case since her death. So November 14th, there's an autopsy performed at University Hospital in Oklahoma City, and blood tests are done, and they reveal some interesting things. So she had 0.35 milligrams of methylqualone, which is Quaaludes,
The Prosecutors
296. The Mysterious Death of Karen Silkwood Part 2 of 2
per 100 milliliters of blood at the time of her death, and another 50 milligrams of undissolved methylcholine in her stomach. So the amount in her blood alone was twice what was necessary to induce some pretty severe drowsiness. It's about 1.5 times the therapeutic dose, which also, I mean, the whole point of this is to relax you and make you go to sleep, right?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
You talked about earlier how these experiences really prepared you for your current job. I can see that. And I have a question about that same sort of balance that you have to deal with. You talked about earlier, Baltimore can be a dangerous place. It has a reputation as a dangerous place.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And a lot of the communities where it's the most dangerous are also the communities that don't trust the police because they've suffered from the violence of crime, but they've also suffered from mass incarceration and those sorts of policies.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
How do you balance the need to to drive down this crime and make Baltimore a safe place versus not falling into some of the old, easy methods of police and law enforcement that maybe do lead to that mass incarceration?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So Adnan Syed.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Amen, by the way, to everything you just said. So I'm going to ask you the question you've probably gotten sick of hearing, which is as a private citizen, you had taken a position on Adnan that maybe, you know, his conviction should be vacated and maybe he did deserve a new trial, et cetera, et cetera.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And then as state's attorney, obviously, after an investigation, you moved to withdraw the vacature of his conviction. So what changed?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Thank you.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
The only thing I want to say is you can come back whenever you want.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
We can do this weekly. But no, thank you for everything you do, and thank you for being an example for prosecutors around the country.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
So you mentioned the Freddie Gray case, and that's a good one to talk about. Obviously, for those of you who don't know, tragic case, black man in Baltimore who was arrested. He died under sort of mysterious circumstances after a ride in the back of a police van. And his name joined a long list of names that people can recite about police misconduct.
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
And it was a case that generated a lot of controversy, a lot of protests around the country. decided to represent one of the police officers who was actually accused in that crime. How did you make that decision? And what did you, when you saw sort of the world against you, as you said, did that give you any pause about entering the fray in that case?
The Prosecutors
Legal Briefs BONUS -- Our Interview with Baltimore State's Attorney Ivan Bates
Stately. It's a wonderful word. It doesn't apply to me. And I'm just going to shut up because we have such an awesome guest. No one actually wants to hear from me.
The Ramsey Show
The Key to Financial Success: Slow and Steady
Yeah, my question is simple. Insurance agent or insurance broker? I've noticed insurance has gone way up over the last year or so, and I was curious your thoughts on insurance broker versus insurance agent.
The Ramsey Show
The Key to Financial Success: Slow and Steady
Well, I have a car insurance. I've gone way up. I have a daughter driving now. I also have... an umbrella, a million dollar policy, and a home insurance as well.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
She said, I don't think Craig gets off on making us feel like shit, especially his mother. She's very, very rich.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
And Madison's like, um, I'm starting to realize this might be a little bit blown out of proportion. And maybe Craig, you know, said it a little too dramatic or something. So now JT, I'm not going to embarrass you in front of all these people.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
He's like, I ain't going over there. He better come over here. I'm not walking over there.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
And she's like, well, that hurt my feelings.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
She's like, nothing really. I mean, he got some big fat cigarettes to smoke, I guess.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
And they're like, I almost feel bad for him.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
At first, at least, she's like, yeah, well, you are sort of a miss. How am I a good idea for anybody?
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
So Madison's like, you deserve to be loved as much as you're giving her. So, you know, fakely. And he's like, oh, thank you so much. Wow. She goes, everybody deserves to be with someone that loves them. Everybody deserves to be with someone that loves them. Even shit.
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
Good. Well, what you doing?
Watch What Crappens
#2745 Southern Charm S10E12 Garsh Expectations on Shudder Island
It's like, hey, ding dong. You got Molly right there who actually likes you. Okay. I mean, why don't you shoot your shot with someone that seems you?