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Morbid

Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson

Mon, 16 Dec 2024

Description

When thirty-four-year-old St. Paul housewife Carol Thompson was murdered in the spring of 1963, her entire neighborhood was shocked by the evil that had invaded their middle-class neighborhood. As far as anyone knew, Carol was a happily married mother of four who appeared to have it all, but the cruel brutality of her murder suggested someone had hated her enough to kill her.When investigators began to dig deeper into Carol’s life and background, they found the truth was that, far from the happy façade she showed the world, Carol Thompson’s life was anything but happy. In the weeks that followed her death, investigators would uncover an unexpectedly complicated conspiracy involving several well-known criminals, all leading back to the one person no one wanted to suspect.Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1963. "Slaying details related in court." New York Times, November 27: 49.—. 1963. "Woman is linked to 'hire' murder." New York Times, November 5: 17.2016. A Crime to Remember. Directed by Tony Glazer. Performed by Chloe Boxer and Christine Connor.Cesnik, Jim. 1963. "'Cotton' Thompson--as father, friend." Minneapolis Star, June 25: 1.Letofsky, Irv. 1963. "Never an acquittal vote." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), December 7: 1.Letofsky, Irv, and Jim Cesnik. 1963. "City man held in Phoenix in Thompson slaying case." Star Tribune, April 20: 1.Minneapolis Star. 1963. "FBI to check policies on Mrs. Thompson's life." Minneapolis Star , April 3: 1.—. 1963. "St. Paul mother 'critical' after stabbing in home." Minneapolis Star, March 6: 1.—. 1963. "Thompson arrested in wife's slaying." Minneapolis Star, June 21: 1.Presbrey, Paul. 1963. "Thompson killing gun identified." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), April 10: 1.Roberts, Sam. 2015. "T. Eugene Thompson dies at 88; crime stunned St. Paul." New York Times, September 6: 28.Romer, Sam. 1963. "Interview with captured suspect." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), April 20: 1.Rudick, Irvin. 1963. "Anderson told Sharp he slew Mrs. Thompson." Minneapolis Star, April 23: 1.Star Tribune. 1963. "Police seek clues in St. Paul slaying." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 7: 1.—. 1963. "Police want more talk with victim's mate." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 23: 1.—. 1963. "Statement also lists his assets." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 27: 1.Thompson, William. 2007. Dial M: The Murder of Carol Thompson. Nepean, ON: Borealis Books.United Press International. 1963. "Thompson trial told of insurance." New York Times, November 6: 29.Young, Douglas. 1963. "Husband of slain St. Paul woman explains $1,061,00 in insurance." Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN), March 27: 1.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Audio
Transcription

0.402 - 17.153 Ash

Hey weirdos, it's Ash. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about the spooky perks of Wondery Plus. It's like having a skeleton key that unlocks ad-free listening and early access to new episodes. So don't wait, try Wondery Plus today. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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18.533 - 20.895 Unknown Announcer

You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

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25.455 - 47.099 Ash

Hey everyone, let's talk about protein for a second. There's this rumor that getting plant-based protein is tough, but listen, there are some amazing options out there. Even if you're not vegan, adding more plant-based protein to your diet is a fantastic way to nourish your body and support the planet. My go-to for tasty protein and superfood-packed shake is cachava.

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47.46 - 70.977 Ash

Every serving of cachava offers 25 grams of 100% plant-based protein, but that's not all. This all-in-one shake has fiber, quality fats, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and so much more. I love that I can tick so many boxes with just one delicious shake. If you know me, you know that vanilla and chai are my favorite flavors, and I like to combine them.

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71.257 - 86.526 Ash

But they also have chocolate, they've got matcha, and they've got coconut acai. I'm a big fan of the coconut acai as well. After drinking cachava first thing in the morning, because that's when I always drink it, I feel satiated for hours. I feel focused, calm, and ready to take on my day.

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86.846 - 108.619 Ash

Something that I really love to do if I even want like a little bit more protein is just add a scoop of peanut butter to the vanilla and chai concoction that I make. And that, oh, is just scrum-diddly-umptious, honey. Cachava is offering our listeners 10% off on their subscription for a limited time. Just go to cachava.com slash morbid. spelled K-A-C-H-A-V-A, and get 10% off your first order.

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108.979 - 130.227 Ash

That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com slash morbid. What a year it's been, you guys. I know that I have a lot to celebrate and a lot to give myself credit for. Honestly, the past few years have been pretty tough, especially for me and Elena, and it feels like a good time to step back and, you know, look at your life in this moment and and commemorate it with something beautiful, something sparkly even.

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130.247 - 145.257 Ash

In all seriousness, if you're thinking of buying jewelry, there really is no better place to do it than BlueNile.com. Whether you're looking for a bit of special sparkle for yourself or to give the best holiday gift to somebody you love, your mom, your wife, your partner, whoever.

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145.697 - 168.503 Ash

Blue Nile offers some of the highest quality standards in the industry at prices significantly below traditional retail. If you know me, I agree with Marilyn Monroe. Diamonds are my best friend. I love a good sparkly sister. And Blue Nile actually helped me find this gorgeous tennis bracelet. And tennis bracelets are very in right now. So I went immediately to Blue Nile and they helped me out.

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168.623 - 184.51 Ash

And God, it is so beautiful. Go to BlueNile.com to shop Blue Nile, the original online jeweler since 1999. That's BlueNile.com. BlueNile.com. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid.

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197.83 - 215.044 Elena

This is Morbid. And it's before Thanksgiving, but for you guys it's after Thanksgiving, I think. Isn't that weird? So we have not given thanks yet. Thank you. But because you have, I hope you had fun. Yes.

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215.865 - 222.33 Ash

And I hope you ate all kinds of yummy food. Ooh, scrumdiddlyumptious. I'm salivating just thinking of our food that we're going to eat.

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222.671 - 223.731 Elena

And we're thankful for you.

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223.751 - 225.213 Ash

Yeah, we love you.

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225.233 - 226.594 Elena

We'll be thankful for you.

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226.914 - 229.635 Ash

Thank you for being our listeners. Yeah.

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230.096 - 232.417 Elena

We'll stay thankful for you. It'll be a whole thing.

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232.437 - 254.213 Ash

It's going to be a whole thing, guys. It's so beautiful. You know what I'm thankful for? Sushi. There you go. I just had some. Good for you, man. And you had a strawberry hostess cupcake. I did. Have you guys tried those? I didn't know they existed. She broke it out and it's me, her, and Mikey in the pod lab today. And she said, we can split this into three. And I said, no need. No need to do so.

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262.226 - 285.537 Ash

I felt like it wouldn't mix well with my sushi and dumplings. Probably not. I was like, I think I'll try that at a later date if ever. That's a great, I think you should try it because I think you might be pleasantly surprised. Okay. But not with sushi. Right now I'm in a place of those Little Debbie brownie Christmas tree things, cakes. Oh, yeah. I'm actually not a big fan. Don't you say it.

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285.877 - 309.338 Ash

I'm not. Of the vanilla? Of the Christmas tree cakes. Okay. I don't like too much frosting, and the middle is sometimes too much for me. And I fear that you're going to throw something at me. I like the brownie better. Doesn't John also? Yeah. And both of you can get the fuck out of here with your shenanigans.

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309.358 - 314.663 Elena

That just means more for you. It sure does. My kids like the vanilla ones with me.

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315.223 - 330.573 Ash

You know what? I don't dislike them. I'll eat one every now and again. I'm horrified. But if I had to pick on a deserted island, you can only have one brownies all the way. I hate that. I'd also pick brownies over cake in general. Wow. Yeah.

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331.474 - 346.223 Elena

This is like, I'm feeling so betrayed lately from my, the people I love the most, what they love and what they don't love. Why? What else happened? Because you just said that. And then John, we were finishing up Follow the House of Usher.

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346.323 - 346.663 Ash

Oh, TV show.

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346.683 - 367.715 Elena

The other night, Mike Flanagan. I want to watch that. And he was like, yeah, I'm not like really into this. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he wasn't into Midnight Mass either. And he was like, and then he said the words. And Mike Flanagan, if you're listening. He didn't mean it. Mike Flanagan, if you're listening, you have a fan in this house. It's me. Not John.

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368.295 - 394.024 Elena

But John was like, yeah, I don't know if I really like Mike Flanagan's stuff. And I was like, I don't know how to accept that. Did you say, I don't know who you even are. I'm just not sure how you watch two things with Kate in it that is made by... Mike Flanagan. You said two things with Kate? Kate Siegel. Kate, okay. His wife. Oh, okay. Who's in both of them. Okay. Who's a phenomenal actress.

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394.625 - 403.214 Elena

She's just chef's kiss. And tell me you're not really into them. I don't understand that way of living.

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403.674 - 407.058 Elena

We're going to try again because I refuse to accept it, so I think I'm too afraid.

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407.818 - 430.629 Ash

to watch fall down semester again you know what though i feel like that would be akin to drew turning to me and telling me that he didn't like bravo all of a sudden and i'd kick him out of our house it's rough and then you sit here and you tell me i didn't say you do not appreciate no no no the vanilla christmas tree you at one point you said i don't really like them you said those words i heard yeah you quoted me correctly that made me upset

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432.009 - 457.689 Ash

No, I shouldn't say I don't really like them. I just don't prefer them. My preference is the brownies, you know? Write in. What's your preference? We'll do a social media poll. Oh, Lord. Alina's like, no. I'm like, no, I'll lose. America's sweetheart will win the brownie crusade. That's fine. More for me, like you said. Exactly, like you said. Like I said. Like I said. I said it. All right.

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458.209 - 466.534 Ash

Well, I think that was an unhinged enough intro. I do want to see Fall of the House of Usher. Fall of the House of Usher. I highly recommend it, guys, if you haven't watched it.

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466.634 - 476.229 Elena

I'll wait to watch it with you. It's a banger of a miniseries. It's only eight episodes. And he is... Mike Flanagan's brilliant. And so is his wife.

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476.309 - 488.136 Ash

I'm willing to try his stuff. I don't think I've ever seen any. I think you would dig it. I really do. I feel like we usually have. Yeah. I wouldn't say similar tastes because you don't like the things that I love.

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488.216 - 500.348 Elena

But I feel like you... TV show wise, I'm saying. He just has a way. And he... The atmosphere that he creates in his shows and movies, I think you will appreciate in a big way.

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500.368 - 518.187 Ash

I've seen the trailer of Fall of the House of Usher. I always feel like I'm going to say it wrong. And I liked the trailer. I was intrigued. I think you'd be into it. But I don't think Drew would like it. And that's tough because we watch TV together. No, I don't think that. Right now, if you're a Bravo head, oh my God, all the shows are on, honey. All of them.

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518.567 - 531.193 Ash

Real Housewives of Beverly Hills just came back. First episode, absolutely obsessed. I do not condone smoking unless your name is Dorit Kemsley. Have you seen the picture of her lighting up a Virginia Slim and just driving around?

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532.194 - 552.469 Ash

no she is she's like going through a divorce and it gets outed and she's getting chased by paparazzi and she just lights up a virginia slim and everybody knew that dorit smoked like she's been caught by paparazzi before but she's never done it on the show and she she just had such a fuck it moment yeah she doesn't give a shit it was iconic it was the smoke heard around the world but there you go don't smoke it kills it does

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553.309 - 576.028 Ash

so anyway i think i said that was chaotic enough of an intro but then i made it more chaotic i love that well now we're going to get on to the case this case is absolutely bonkers from start to finish oh i'm excited yeah i will let you know like right off the top right off the top of this uh it's very brutal in the beginning but here it's called morbid it is

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576.468 - 592.683 Ash

So this is the murder of Carol Thompson. And it all started on the morning of March 6th, 1963. Ruth Nelson was just sitting in her living room in her St. Paul, Minnesota home. She was catching up on the morning news. And she heard what sounded like somebody lightly knocking on her front door.

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593.797 - 615.168 Ash

So she went to the door and she peered through the small window and she couldn't see anybody, but she decided that she should just open the door to be sure. And when she opened the door, she saw that lying at the foot of the steps was her neighbor, 34-year-old Carol Thompson, who lived just a couple houses down. Temperatures that morning were freezing, but Carol was only wearing a light robe.

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615.549 - 627.366 Ash

She had no shoes on and the upper part of her body from her head to her chest was absolutely drenched in blood. And Carol looked up and in a voice just above a whisper, she looked at Ruth and said, help me.

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627.786 - 655.437 Ash

oh that's so haunting and she's like ruth has just started her morning just you know probably made a cup of coffee watching the news and opens her door up to wow like her beloved neighbor too yeah close and only 34 years old yeah super young neighbor so ruth called out to her husband and son who were still home they had been in the kitchen and they moved carol inside the house laying her gently on their rug and while harry nelson ran to call the police ruth and her son just tried to comfort carol however they could shit

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656.117 - 676.806 Ash

And one of the two ended up asking Carol what happened to had somebody attacked her who had ended a faint voice that suggested she was losing consciousness really quickly. She answered a man did it. And Ruth asked what the man's name was. And she thought that Carol said Johnson. But by then, Carol could hardly speak. Even so, she was just speaking over a whisper.

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676.886 - 692.739 Ash

So Ruth would never be quite sure what the name was. Now, moments later, another neighbor, Dr. Fritz Pearson, arrived. His wife had been watching everything that morning through their living room window and suggested that he go over to help because she was like, something is, like, very wrong over there.

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692.959 - 693.199 Ash or Elena

Yeah.

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704.91 - 728.57 Ash

Oh, my God. Yeah. Ruth Nelson later said, I know Carol very well, but her face was covered with so much blood that even I didn't recognize her.

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728.59 - 729.171 Ash or Elena

Oh, that's horrific.

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729.851 - 736.117 Ash

So Harry Nelson's call to the St. Paul police came into dispatch at about 9.07 a.m. Just think of how early this is.

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736.137 - 736.898 Elena

First thing in the morning.

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737.538 - 757.451 Ash

At which point he reported only that his wife had discovered a, quote, badly injured lady on their doorstep and just that they needed help immediately. It's unclear what sergeants John Ricardo and Roy Shepard were really expecting when they got to the scene, but whatever it was, it was not really likely that they had pictured just a housewife, a neighbor just drenched in blood.

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757.951 - 775.99 Ash

Later, Ricardo wrote in his report, the wounds were small and appeared to be stab wounds, but in truth, Carol had been injured so badly that it was impossible to tell where all the blood was coming from. She had so many wounds. So as Dr. Pearson continued providing first aid, the officers tried to get any information out of Carol herself.

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776.09 - 790.373 Ash

But by then she was barely conscious and she wasn't able to communicate at all. So it was Ruth Nelson who explained how she came to found Carol that morning. But nobody had any idea what happened to her, like how she got that. Yeah. Can you imagine just finding someone like that? No.

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790.414 - 791.774 Elena

You have no clue what happened.

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791.894 - 825.478 Ash

No. And she can't tell you. That's the worst part. So the ambulance arrived a few minutes later and the EMTs were directed inside. And in their report, one of the EMTs described the extent of Carol's wounds as far as he could see at the time, writing, We also noticed a shiny metal tip or what appeared to be a knife blade protruding from the left side of the neck. Who the fuck did this to her?

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825.658 - 847.173 Ash

Oh, just wait. So Carol was taken to Anchor Hospital by the ambulance while the officers called for additional support and started their investigation. From what the two initial investigators could tell, Mercado and Shepard, it seemed like Carol had actually crawled or dragged her way down the street just trying to find help. Oh, that like shadow. Shatters my heart. Yeah.

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847.274 - 860.951 Ash

And just like this quiet 1960s suburban neighborhood and she can't yell because she's been stabbed in the fucking neck. So when they conducted their door-to-door canvas of the neighborhood, Fritz Pearson's wife, who that was the doctor's wife who had sent him over.

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861.811 - 882.268 Ash

and a handyman who had been working on their house told investigators that she'd seen who she now knew to be carol slumped in front of another neighbor's house just a few minutes before she made her way to the nelson's door so she had to like stop on her way there yeah of course which is i just can't imagine looking out my window and seeing that no and also like did you tell anyone

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882.788 - 884.729 Ash

She's the one that sent her husband over. Oh, okay.

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884.769 - 887.469 Elena

Oh, she's the one who said, like, I think something's going on over there.

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887.489 - 900.073 Ash

Yeah, so I think she saw. I think probably what happened was initially she saw somebody, like, in the street and was like, who is that? Like, what's going on? And then looked further and saw her get to the Nelsons and realized who it was. It was like, all right, there's something wrong here.

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900.888 - 912.236 Ash

So when investigators arrived at Carol Thompson's home about just a block away, nobody was home and the front door was locked. So the officers ended up entering through a side door that was open and that opened up into the kitchen.

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912.897 - 929.329 Ash

For the most part, the kitchen actually seemed to be pretty undisturbed, except there was one drawer where silverware and knives had been pulled out and its contents were spilled to the floor. But then they saw a trail of blood that led them from the kitchen to the front door where where they discovered a large pool of blood.

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929.97 - 946.602 Ash

And laying in the blood, investigators discovered three unspent live rounds from a pistol, what appeared to be the handle of the knife from Carol's neck, and several pieces of hard white plastic of unknown origin. They couldn't figure out what this plastic was. Oh, fuck.

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947.683 - 957.01 Ash

Once they confirmed that there was nobody in the house, the attacker wasn't there, a team of investigators started searching the Thompsons' two-floor home, hoping to get some insight into what happened at all.

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957.891 - 970.7 Ash

Now, the first thing they noticed was that the front door had been locked from the inside with the safety latch, like a little chain latch, but the door had been pulled so hard from the inside that it had actually come away from the frame slightly.

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971.001 - 971.401 Ash or Elena

Wow.

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971.601 - 978.506 Ash

So somebody was trying to get out desperately. Right. Also discovered on the floor by the door just under the rug was Carol's wedding ring.

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979.787 - 1000.662 Ash

Which is just like... That's very chilling. Yeah, like what? Now, upstairs in the bathroom, investigators found several smears of blood in the sink, which led them to believe that whoever had attacked Carol definitely tried to clean up after themselves before leaving. And they also saw that there was about six or seven inches of water in the bathtub. Huh. Which is so weird. Yeah.

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1000.842 - 1015.995 Ash

From there, they followed the blood trail back to the primary bedroom, which had been completely ransacked. Like, it looked like somebody had been looking for something in particular in a big hurry. And while it was a mess, they couldn't help but notice that there was no rhyme or reason to the chaos.

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1016.576 - 1028.448 Ash

So they thought it was possible that Carol was attacked, like, maybe, like I always say, some kind of robbery gone wrong. That seems staged, though. But... It felt way too staged, they thought. And on top of that, nothing appeared to be missing.

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1029.028 - 1032.089 Ash

I mean, they just found her diamond ring by the front door. Yeah.

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1032.369 - 1038.81 Elena

Whenever it's like no rhyme or reason to the ransacking, it's definitely staged. And nothing is missing. And nothing is missing.

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1038.83 - 1039.271 Ash

Like, hello?

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1039.471 - 1040.051 Elena

Like, come on.

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1040.431 - 1058.146 Ash

So there was ample evidence of a struggle, obviously, having occurred throughout several rooms in the house. And it seemed like Carol had fought back or at least tried very hard to get away. But despite that, they couldn't really determine the sequence of events and they really couldn't tell where the assault had actually started. Yeah, because it seems like chaos.

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1058.586 - 1075.384 Ash

It's chaos and everything is just a mess. And it kind of just looked like once the attack started, the attacker and the victim ran all throughout the house in several rooms and probably even doubled back actually more than once. So they canvassed the houses or the house on both sides of the street for several blocks.

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1075.564 - 1108.716 Ash

But other than the Nelsons and the Pearsons, nobody had seen or heard anything out of the ordinary that morning. Given the time of day, a lot of families had gone their separate ways by the time the attack would have happened and wouldn't be back until like late that evening. That's true. It's like work, school, errands, all that stuff. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah.

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1109.517 - 1129.435 Ash

So while they were in the process of searching the home, Carol's husband, T. Eugene Cotton Thompson, so his name is T. Eugene Thompson, but he's better known as Cotton. Cotton Weary. That's what I thought. That's what I think of. While the detectives were searching the home, he arrives home. Cotton arrives home. He had been at his law office downtown when he got a call shortly after 9 a.m.

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1129.475 - 1138.123 Ash

from the Nelson's son, Sidney, saying that there had been an accident involving Carol. Sidney didn't tell him too much because obviously he's like, you have to drive here.

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1138.143 - 1140.145 Elena

Yeah, and he's like, and I don't even know much.

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1140.346 - 1158.519 Ash

And nobody even knows exactly. So he just said there was an accident. By the time Cotton got the call, Carol was on her way to Anchor Hospital. But instead of going directly to the hospital, Cotton drove back home and actually even stopped briefly at the Nelsons' house before then going back to his own house. Which was definitely a little weird. Yeah.

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1158.579 - 1177.415 Ash

And, like, I'm sure you're not thinking straight, but it was something that people took note of. For sure. I can understand that. Yeah. So he told the police he had left the house that morning around 7.30, and he was taking his son Jeffrey to school, and then he went to his office. Okay. So typical morning. And also a well-trekked alibi. Uh-huh.

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1178.076 - 1191.732 Ash

Around 8.30, he called the house to confirm with Carol that he would be picking up the kids at school. And he said, other than that, that was the last time he had spoken to her. He said, at that time, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. She didn't sound distressed. Nothing.

0
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1193.206 - 1215.142 Ash

But by the time they finished the search of the house, detectives had actually discovered very little in the way of evidence and they really didn't have any leads to indicate what exactly happened in this house. Obviously, the attack had carried out through multiple rooms covering the walls, the curtains, the rugs, everything in blood. But as for why and how it all happened, they were at a loss.

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1216.262 - 1234.436 Ash

But based on all the evidence, they theorize that Carol had been hit at least once with a piece of large, heavy rubber tubing, which they found on the kitchen floor. But they believe that she was also likely assaulted with the butt of a gun because the handle of which was broken in the process, leaving all these shards of plastic by the door.

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1234.496 - 1235.897 Elena

Oh, that's what that was.

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1236.357 - 1264.77 Ash

Yeah. And she also sustained several stab wounds from what they concluded was a small paring knife. Holy shit. And that's the handle that they discovered by the front door. Damn. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I love the burr months, December, November, all the burr months because they're so cozy.

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1265.191 - 1284.126 Ash

For some, wrapping up in a blanket with a mug of hot chocolate or, you know, watching a movie with a family is the best way to spend the month of December. You know what is another great way? Therapy. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort that never goes away, even when the season changes. I love therapy. I think therapy is awesome. I have benefited so much from it.

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1284.166 - 1296.93 Ash

So many life lessons and just like major breakthroughs I have made in therapy have shaped me into who I am today. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule.

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1296.95 - 1316.888 Ash

And all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash morbid. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here.

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1317.248 - 1337.363 Ash

Discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, from romance and well-being to fiction, Audible's carefully curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment. Like an almost unbelievably star-studded production of George Orwell's 1984,

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1338.604 - 1360.54 Ash

which both honors and reinvigorates the terrifying classic. It's one of the best original dramatizations that we have ever heard, or romance that hits the spot, like Emily Henry's funny story, heartfelt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one, listen to the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hanna, and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive James.

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1360.98 - 1376.134 Ash

Personally, I think a best of the year is Elena Urquhart's The Butcher and the Wren and The Butcher Game. Ooh, ooh! Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com slash morbid and discover all the year's best waiting for you, like my sister's titles.

0
💬 0

1381.246 - 1404.72 Ash

So while they are still searching through the house and trying to figure out what the fuck happened here, doctors at Anchor Hospital did their best to stabilize a badly injured but still alive Carol. She had 25 separate cuts on her head from a blunt object, and several of those cuts had caused a, quote, skull fracture, brain hemorrhage, and contusions on the brain. This is so vicious.

0
💬 0

1404.82 - 1425.409 Ash

It's vicious. And she also had two stab wounds in her neck. When she got to the hospital, she was completely unconscious and was, quote, without measurable blood pressure. Yeah. Surgeons did their best to revive her, performing a tracheotomy. They also did an external heart massage, which I've never even actually heard of.

0
💬 0

1425.689 - 1451.365 Ash

heard of that that's when they literally like with their they will literally get the heart pumping with their like physically pump the heart i didn't even know that was an option or like a thing surgeons are wild and they also did um what's called a trepanation and that was to relieve the pressure on her brain because i think she had she had like bleeding like the skull yeah exactly but their efforts were futile unfortunately and she was pronounced dead a few minutes before 1 p.m

0
💬 0

1452.205 - 1464.299 Ash

That's awful. Which when you think about that, she arrived on the doorstep around 9 that morning, like so badly attacked. She lived until 1 p.m. 1 p.m. Like she fought hard. She must have been in agony though.

0
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1464.399 - 1465.52 Elena

Yeah. That's what kills me.

0
💬 0

1465.56 - 1467.322 Ash

You just hope that she wasn't since she was unconscious.

0
💬 0

1467.342 - 1468.504 Elena

I hope she was in complete shock.

0
💬 0

1468.624 - 1486.07 Ash

Yeah. So in 1963, violent home invasions were pretty rare in the U.S., and especially in the middle of the day in a middle class neighborhood. This is not something that happened a lot. And when it did happen, the motive was typically robbery. But in this case, nothing had been stolen.

0
💬 0

1486.17 - 1505.253 Ash

And aside from the bedroom, it really didn't even seem like the killer had gone through the Thompson's belongings at all. It kind of seemed like whoever attacked Carol had gone to the house to do exactly that. And given the amount of violence done to her, the objective clearly seemed to be murder. But the question that they had to ask was who would have wanted Carol Thompson dead?

0
💬 0

1506.354 - 1524.044 Ash

So going back a little ways, Carol was born and raised in St. Paul and she had spent her entire life there. Like she's lived her entire life there. She was really well-liked. She was a mother of four. She was super, super active in her kids' lives. She was the den mother for her son's Boy Scout troop. She was a leader of her daughter's Brownie troop.

0
💬 0

1524.764 - 1536.534 Ash

And when she wasn't coordinating the lives of four really, really active children, she was organizing events at their church. She was the president of the Women's Association, a member of the church choir, and she even taught a kindergarten class.

0
💬 0

1536.914 - 1538.295 Elena

Oh, my God.

0
💬 0

1538.335 - 1542.479 Ash

Carol is the most wholesome woman ever.

0
💬 0

1542.839 - 1568.642 Elena

And what a badass. Oh, yeah. Organizing four very active young children's lives, that alone is hard to do. And then you add on being the den mother, being a part of the Boy Scout troop, a leader of the Brownie troop. Teaching stuff at church. Teaching a kindergarten class. Being a member of the choir. A president of the Women's Association. Like, she's literally everything.

0
💬 0

1568.842 - 1573.725 Ash

And she also, on top of all that, I think I mentioned it later, she was taking classes, too. Yeah.

0
💬 0

1573.846 - 1574.626 Elena

At the same time.

0
💬 0

1574.766 - 1576.047 Ash

She's, what a badass.

0
💬 0

1576.087 - 1583.553 Elena

Yeah. I can barely handle my shit, and I don't have half of that. I don't even have kids, and I don't know what I'm doing half the time.

0
💬 0

1583.673 - 1596.043 Ash

I'm like, that's... That's wild. That's a lot. Exactly. She was liked by everybody and she had all that going for her. So the police are at a loss. You're like, who the fuck did this? Who doesn't like Carol? Everybody does.

0
💬 0

1596.123 - 1600.086 Elena

And she's like a young mom. Yeah. What's she getting into?

0
💬 0

1600.286 - 1611.856 Ash

Exactly. She's not getting into organized crime here or something, I assume. No, not at all. No, she's not. So frustrated by the lack of evidence and any leads at the scene, investigators started questioning the family and the neighbors. Yeah.

0
💬 0

1612.176 - 1621.624 Ash

As a criminal defense lawyer, detectives actually had to wonder if one of Cotton's previous clients had been maybe disgruntled and wanted to get back at him by targeting his wife.

0
💬 0

1621.864 - 1622.465 Elena

How awful.

0
💬 0

1622.785 - 1635.316 Ash

Yeah, but I mean, it happens, so I can see why they started there. And Cotton handed over a list of previous clients, but he also insisted that he couldn't think of a single one of them who had been dissatisfied with his legal services enough to act personally.

0
💬 0

1635.436 - 1652.299 Ash

like that you know like do something I mean I feel like you would have an idea if somebody was that disgruntled definitely because you would think that there would be like steps leading up to that you would at least feel like you know what this guy was really angry and like I could and he's dangerous and probably got maybe like made like a verbal threat at the very least you know

0
💬 0

1653.2 - 1669.106 Ash

So investigators also started digging into Carol's background, of course. And in a lot of ways, she was pretty, I don't want to say ordinary, but like she led an ordinary life. Like nothing stuck out to them. Yeah. According to friends, she was very much an extrovert, much known and much loved by everyone, they said.

0
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0
💬 0

1670.286 - 1674.608 Ash

Other friends described her as somebody who was, quote, interested in everything and constantly learning.

0
💬 0

1674.628 - 1675.788 Elena

I love people like that.

0
💬 0

1676.128 - 1687.391 Ash

I know, she seems like... I love people like that, that just want to keep doing stuff. Yeah, I feel like Carol seems like somebody we definitely would have gotten along with. One friend told a reporter she was always trying to gain more knowledge.

0
💬 0

1687.791 - 1706.998 Ash

And in fact, like I mentioned earlier, the reason that Cotton had planned to pick up the kids from school that afternoon was because Carol was taking night classes and she had plans to go to class that evening. Yeah, on top of everything else she's doing, she was going to a class. Now, by most accounts, too, Carol and Cotton's marriage had been a good one.

0
💬 0

1707.018 - 1724.251 Ash

They always seemed happy together, people said. People said they were an anchor in the neighborhood. They were organizing parties all the time, events all the time. Jeez. Like, things looked really good from the outside. Yeah. Carol met Cotton when she was a sophomore in college. And 10 months later, she dropped out of school and they got married.

0
💬 0

1724.551 - 1742.439 Ash

And then a few months later, Carol got pregnant with their first child. And she really started on her career as a wife and a mother, which was very of the time. This is the 60s. For sure. And she approached that with the same enthusiasm that she did everything in life. She was super excited, like fully devoted to everything, kids and husband.

0
💬 0

1742.839 - 1753.163 Elena

Carol seems like the type of woman who, when she does something, she fucking... Yeah, she doesn't half-ass anything. No, Carol whole-assed everything, and you can see that.

0
💬 0

1753.183 - 1765.269 Ash

Like, even more than whole-assed, if that's possible. Yeah. In the public and even in the press, too, she was described as the pinnacle of a 1960s housewife. But in private conversations... I was waiting for a but.

0
💬 0

1765.289 - 1765.769 Elena

There's always a but.

0
💬 0

1765.789 - 1768.411 Ash

Because I was like, you can't tell me this is just the way it is. No.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1768.991 - 1775.454 Ash

In private conversations... The interesting thing is, I'll tell you what happens, but it's not even that... Like, on Carol's end, you're like...

0
💬 0

1775.954 - 1795.975 Ash

i don't know like it really doesn't explain this necessarily in private conversations with friends and neighbors detectives were starting to develop a little bit of a different picture of carol it was true she was a very devoted mother but not everybody believed that she had abandoned her own dream so willingly and not everybody was convinced that carolyn cotton's marriage was a good one

0
💬 0

1796.636 - 1800.479 Elena

I did wonder when you said like she dropped out of school and they got married.

0
💬 0

1800.779 - 1803.241 Ash

And she still has this love of learning, obviously. Yeah.

0
💬 0

1803.281 - 1808.184 Elena

And it's like, obviously that absolutely, if that was her choice and she was happy with that choice, then more power to her.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1808.724 - 1811.926 Elena

I just wondered. I had like a weird little pinch. Well, it seems sudden too.

0
💬 0

1811.946 - 1829.776 Ash

That's the thing. But obviously it was just rumors. But some of the women in the neighborhood speculated that while she might not have been having a full blown affair, Carol did have a friend that everybody referred to as Big Red. Whoa. Who seemed more interested and attentive of Carol than was considered appropriate at the time. Oh.

0
💬 0

1829.956 - 1847.45 Ash

Nobody said they saw them doing anything like scandalous or anything. But he seemed to like Carol. He seemed to pay a lot of attention to her. Well, that's not her fault. No. And she's beautiful. If you look at the picture, it makes sense. So investigators soon learned that Big Red's real name was Kenneth Morin. He was a local man in his early 30s.

0
💬 0

1848.031 - 1866.99 Ash

He met Cotton and Carol when he sold them some windows and doors about a year earlier. And he and Carol shared a lot of interests, so not long after meeting, Kenneth kind of became part of their social circle. According to him, he and Carol would visit museums together, go to galleries. Sometimes he would drive Carol and the kids places when cotton was unavailable.

0
💬 0

1867.49 - 1882.257 Ash

But he insisted they were just friends. There was nothing more to it. And he claimed he actually hadn't seen Carol since the previous November and didn't know anything about her murder. He also had an alibi for the day of the murder, which was confirmed by his boss. So he was quickly ruled out as a suspect.

0
💬 0

1883.132 - 1894.162 Elena

So I wonder, because I don't know if it's going to go any further than that, but I'm like, it sounds like they were just like good friends. Yeah. Like legitimately good friends and maybe on his end he liked her.

0
💬 0

1894.603 - 1907.875 Ash

I think they definitely like thought the other was attractive probably. And like I think it was also really tough to have a friend of the opposite sex at that time. I was going to say this is such a different time too. And especially in like a small town and a close-knit community. For sure.

0
💬 0

1908.135 - 1928.294 Ash

I think they probably were just really good friends who like maybe found each other attractive, but it doesn't really sound like across the line at all. Okay. So even though they had ruled out Kenneth Morin as a suspect, his presence in Carol's life definitely contributed to an emerging portrait of probably an unhappy woman in an unhappy marriage to some degree. I can absolutely see that. Yes.

0
💬 0

1928.334 - 1947.541 Ash

Like, you know. And in fact, further interviews with friends and neighbors revealed that Carol's relationship with Kenneth was a source of frustration for her husband Cotton. And one afternoon in November, he got home and he found Carol and Kenneth just talking in the backyard and demanded, he walked back out there and demanded that Kenneth leave and not come back.

0
💬 0

1947.741 - 1956.164 Ash

Like he was, I think he was starting to probably hear people talking and I'm sure. Yeah. His pals were teasing him, that kind of thing. So he was like, stay the fuck away from my wife.

0
💬 0

1956.224 - 1973.11 Elena

And you're like, you know, I kind of get like, I can see. Yeah, I get territorial. Because you think there's varying degrees of appropriateness when it comes to a relationship like that, when you're married especially. So it's like, I can understand that from an outside point of view, it can be like, oh, you know, they're just like, that's a nice friendship. And then I'm like, but you know what?

0
💬 0

1973.15 - 1975.631 Elena

If you're in the relationship, it's probably going to look a little different.

0
💬 0

1975.771 - 1992.943 Ash

Well, Mike, and this is just me like to each their own. But if I knew that Drew had a close woman friend that he was like driving our kids around, I'd be like, I'm not super comfortable. Yeah, I too would have a problem with that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So for her part, Carol told a friend and this kind of explains what you were wondering earlier.

0
💬 0

1993.483 - 2009.434 Ash

She said, quote, she did not dislike Kenneth and was attracted to him, but loved only her husband and children. So she was like, yeah, he's handsome and I like being around him, but I only love my kids and my husband. She just sounds like the purest, like truly. Yeah, she really does.

0
💬 0

2009.454 - 2023.203 Ash

Now, the other thing was the blow up in the backyard had resulted in Cotton becoming more attentive to her and the kids, which she appreciated. She's like, you know, I got a little fire under his butt. She's like, I miss Kenneth, like he was cool to hang out with, but this kind of worked out. Yeah, it was great.

0
💬 0

2023.783 - 2039.475 Ash

It was a testament to Carol's popularity, too, that so many people were willing to cooperate with investigators. and that they were offering whatever insight they had to her character. But their descriptions of her life and personality, even the gossip, really didn't do much to point them in the direction of a killer.

0
💬 0

2040.076 - 2055.649 Ash

If anything, the interviews just confirmed detectives' earlier feeling that Carol Thompson was the last person anybody would have wanted to see dead. Yeah. Or murdered, even worse. Like everyone on the outside of her life seemed to really like her. Yeah, like she didn't really have a problem with anything. She wasn't beefing. With anyone.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2056.269 - 2068.912 Ash

So in the absence of new leads, investigators turned their attention back to Cotton, of course, the husband, who did look particularly suspicious after detectives discovered multiple life insurance policies.

0
💬 0

2069.432 - 2071.173 Elena

Oh, I knew those were coming.

0
💬 0

2071.353 - 2075.454 Ash

Life insurance policies in Carol's name from multiple different insurance companies.

0
💬 0

2075.474 - 2083.363 Elena

Oh, you gotta go. That's it. I don't know how this ends, so I'm not going to sit here and I'm not going to dog on somebody and say that it's definitely them.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2084.484 - 2086.086 Elena

I can? You can. Okay, yeah.

0
💬 0

2086.126 - 2087.128 Ash

I think it's pretty.

0
💬 0

2087.689 - 2088.169 Elena

Come on.

0
💬 0

2088.189 - 2088.83 Ash

I think it's pretty.

0
💬 0

2089.391 - 2092.635 Elena

Different life insurances from different companies and this happens?

0
💬 0

2092.715 - 2120.269 Ash

Yeah. Yeah. Like... What? About a week after the murder, it came to light that there were two term life insurance policies in Carol's name, three accidental death policies in her name, and three group term life insurance policies covering each member of the family, all totaling more than a million dollars in coverage back then, which today would be $10 million. Holy shit. More than $10 million.

0
💬 0

2120.289 - 2123.462 Ash

Holy shit. Wow. Yeah.

0
💬 0

2123.582 - 2127.366 Elena

That would make my red flags go flappy, flappy, flappy.

0
💬 0

2127.526 - 2147.085 Ash

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So there's eight. Wow. Eight insurance policies. That's bonkers. Like, that's insane. That goes crazy. That goes absolutely bonkers. The news of the policies obviously caused quite a stir amongst those who knew the family. As it should. Since that much coverage seemed pretty fucking excessive by any measure. Yeah.

0
💬 0

2147.765 - 2166.036 Ash

In his statement to the press, Ramsey County Attorney William Randall told reporters, Thompson is the applicant for a beneficiary of the policies, which are due to expire next month. Oh. Yeah. Are you telling me? I'm telling you. This piece of fucking shit. Yeah, he did something.

0
💬 0

2167.079 - 2188.023 Ash

So the discovery raised some new questions about Carol's death, and investigators obviously wanted to talk more with Cotton. But rather than address the matter with the police privately, Cotton Thompson released his own statement to the press via his friend, Douglas Young. Douglas. He didn't even go do it for himself. He had his friend do it. Don't involve Doug. Yeah, don't involve Douglas.

0
💬 0

2188.383 - 2205.587 Ash

Come on. In the statement, Young laid out a detailed tally of the insurance policies in Carroll's name, and he included many, many lengthy specifics about the payouts and the purchase prices, just like a very unusual amount of information that most people wouldn't understand or really give much of a shit about.

0
💬 0

2205.607 - 2226.895 Ash

Yeah, it's a great way to confuse people and make them not want to think that you're the guy. It was strategic, for sure. Yeah. Now, as for why he purchased so much insurance, Cotton said, we had no debt bills or indebtedness to speak of, and we felt that we could readily afford up to up to $200 a month on insurance as to each of us. It's like, how do you have like 55,000 insurance policies?

0
💬 0

2226.955 - 2246.939 Ash

That's the thing. Like I get like having a life insurance policy. Absolutely. But I don't understand having eight. Yeah. I don't understand that. I'm also like, damn, like you got really good deals on those. Yeah. According to Cotton, they did have the children in mind when they purchased the insurance and they just, he said they hadn't intended to keep it beyond the children aging into adulthood.

0
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0
💬 0

2247.554 - 2250.716 Elena

Which, like, okay, yeah, that all sounds great. Yeah. Why do you have eight?

0
💬 0

2251.056 - 2251.717 Ash

You just don't need eight.

0
💬 0

2251.737 - 2256.28 Elena

That's the thing. Like, you're not answering my question. Yeah. Cotton. The most is six.

0
💬 0

2256.3 - 2276.312 Ash

Why do you have eight? There's six family members, six policies, the end. And I'm pretty sure one policy can cover multiple people. Yeah. I don't know. That could be wrong, but. Well, it's like, why? I just, I don't know. Like, that just, it seems excessive. It absolutely does. So the explanation seemed kind of reasonable, even if the number of policies and coverage were excessive.

0
💬 0

2276.512 - 2299.882 Ash

People were willing to look past it a little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's not totally out of the realm of normality, but it's still excessive to me. It raises your eyebrows. It does. But what investigators still found unusual was that Cotton also hadn't been forthcoming about the insurance policies when they asked him immediately after Carol's death. He didn't say anything about these. They found them.

0
💬 0

2300.222 - 2312.308 Ash

Which it's like... That's a little weird. That's real weird. When they ask you and you're just like, I don't know. But at the same time, you're like... But you also know it's going to make you look bad. You know it's going to sound bad. And remember, he's an attorney.

0
💬 0

2312.428 - 2321.613 Elena

Yeah, so he knows that's going to make him, but also it's like, they're going to find them. Yeah, that's the thing. So just be upfront and be like, listen, I know you're going to find these things and you're going to question me about them, so let me get ahead of it.

0
💬 0

2322.293 - 2324.895 Ash

I think he thought that he was smarter than everybody else.

0
💬 0

2324.915 - 2326.996 Elena

Yeah, he thought he could outrun this.

0
💬 0

2327.236 - 2341.261 Ash

Yeah. And they also thought it was weird that when the details of the policies came to light, he chose to send a prepared statement to the press instead of just talking to the detectives who were working on his wife's murder case. Yeah, that tells you a lot. You know? In fact, according to the St.

0
💬 0

2341.301 - 2358.2 Ash

Paul Police Department and the county attorney's office, neither received a copy of the statement that had been given to the press, and they only learned about it when it hit papers on the morning of March 27th. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that shady behavior. So they didn't see any of that coming. And then there's this like lengthy ass statement. Yeah.

0
💬 0

2358.48 - 2364.142 Ash

So the original policies appeared to have actually been taken out by Carol or at least somebody who signed Carol's name to the form.

0
💬 0

2364.442 - 2364.962 Elena

Interesting.

0
💬 0

2365.122 - 2379.627 Ash

But investigators decided to send the documents to the FBI for handwriting analysis to confirm that it actually was Carol's handwriting. And in the meantime, they continued their investigation, but openly admitted that they had really made very little progress in the weeks following the murder.

0
💬 0

2380.327 - 2399.918 Ash

Police Chief Lester McAuliffe said, we have a great deal of circumstantial evidence, but the case isn't complete by any means. We need a break to crack the case. And little did they know that break was a coming. It was going to find them. Oh, no. So in their struggle to make any headway in the case, detectives revisited the scene and revisited the evidence that they found in the home.

0
💬 0

2400.439 - 2425.092 Ash

For the most part, the evidence collected from the house was pretty much what you would expect to find from a home, except for the pieces of plastic that were recovered in the pool of blood by the front door. I love gift giving so much. It just like warms my heart to give somebody a really awesome gift that I know they're going to love.

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💬 0

2425.472 - 2443.04 Ash

It's great when you can get somebody a gift they wouldn't necessarily get for themselves, that little bit of luxury that they don't know they're missing. For quality gifts at an affordable price, my go-to is Quince. Quince lets you treat your loved ones and yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price, something everyone needs in their closet in my opinion.

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2443.38 - 2466.04 Ash

Quince's iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which start at just $50. I shop on Quince literally all the time. I have so many of those Mongolian cashmere sweaters and I need so many more. I love them and I am giving a bunch of them out as presents for this holiday season because everybody deserves that level of comfort and luxury. Gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag.

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💬 0

2466.36 - 2491.814 Ash

Go to quince.com slash morbid for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash morbid to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash morbid. How many transactions do you make each month? I couldn't even take a guess. And I was shocked to learn that the average U.S. consumer makes an average of 70 payments per month. Whoa!

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2492.355 - 2510.731 Ash

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2511.151 - 2526.884 Ash

Rocket Money can actually even help you set up a custom budget by identifying top spending categories and suggesting areas where you could, you know, maybe adjust your spending habits. They'll calculate your monthly spending allowance and alert you when you're too close to going over budget so you can save more and spend less.

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2526.904 - 2546.255 Ash

I love their budget tool because, you know, sometimes I get that little alert that says, honey, you're about to go over. Oh, my God, slow down. And I say, all right, all right, get it in check, sister. And then I save more money and I love saving money. Rocket Money has over five million happy members. and has saved its users over $1 billion across all the app's features.

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2546.616 - 2569.362 Ash

Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Get Rocket Money today at rocketmoney.com slash morbid. That's rocketmoney.com slash morbid, rocketmoney.com slash morbid. In the days that followed the murder, investigators theorized that that plastic had come from the hand of a pistol, which the intruder obviously used to beat Carol.

0
💬 0

2569.862 - 2584.19 Ash

That caused the pistol grip to break and fall on the floor and that's where the plastic came from. But the problem was they didn't have the gun that the pistol grip had come from and they actually weren't even sure what kind of gun it was at all. Wow. So they didn't have a lot to go on.

0
💬 0

2584.83 - 2599.841 Ash

But despite the lack of information, they held a televised press conference where they showed those broken pieces of the pistol grip and they asked for the public's help identifying the weapon. And within a week, the St. Paul police got a call from a man named Wayne Brandt. He was a St.

0
💬 0

2599.881 - 2612.29 Ash

Paul salesman who claimed that the gun they were looking for was his 7.65 millimeter Luger pistol, which had been stolen from his apartment on February 14th, just a few weeks before the murder.

0
💬 0

2612.35 - 2612.891 Elena

Holy shit.

0
💬 0

2613.411 - 2620.278 Ash

He was certain that this gun was his because he actually recognized the pistol grip as one he made for himself in a shop class.

0
💬 0

2620.439 - 2621.239 Elena

Stop it.

0
💬 0

2621.299 - 2632.35 Ash

Yeah, several years earlier. According to him, the gun was one of several items stolen from his apartment along with a television, a diamond ring, and a typewriter. Poor guy. Wow. Stealing all the shit.

0
💬 0

2632.41 - 2640.014 Elena

And now he's got to call and be like, yeah, that gun piece found at that murder scene, that's my gun. But I promise you I wasn't there. Now he's got to go through the whole rigmarole.

0
💬 0

2640.094 - 2644.217 Ash

I know. I can't imagine. And good for him for being like, yeah, that's mine because some people wouldn't.

0
💬 0

2644.537 - 2646.578 Elena

I know. A lot of people would be like, I'm not getting wrapped up in that.

0
💬 0

2646.618 - 2657.624 Ash

Right? We love a good Samaritan. Yeah. So a few days later and by chance, a lot of things in this case just came together by chance, which I like to believe is my girl Carol up there.

0
💬 0

2657.724 - 2659.224 Elena

The universe is working for her. Yes.

0
💬 0

2659.345 - 2677.975 Ash

Yes. So police arrested a man named Willard Ingram during a holdup, like during a legit holdup. Ingram had a long criminal history and he was actually willing to provide information about other crimes in exchange for leniency with the whole holdup case. Oh. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit.

0
💬 0

2694.915 - 2695.556 Elena

Oh, my goodness.

0
💬 0

2695.916 - 2718.552 Ash

The sisterhood of the traveling gun. It's about to go crazy. You have no idea. Oh, man. There are so many people involved in this. It blew my mind. So he steals the gun, but then he gives it to his friend Norman. Yes. So Norman Mastrian was a 40-year-old former prizefighter with mob ties. Oh. And he was mostly known to St. Paul police for kind of like a series of petty crimes.

0
💬 0

2718.912 - 2725.873 Ash

That was until he became the prime suspect in a 1962 kidnapping and murder of a local bar owner.

0
💬 0

2726.033 - 2726.834 Elena

What the fuck?

0
💬 0

2726.854 - 2746.938 Ash

Yeah. Investigators actually hadn't been able to find enough evidence to convict him for the murder, and he was let go. But pretty much everybody agreed he was the killer. Holy shit. They just didn't have enough. He's just walking. So on the morning of April 19th, a group of detectives knocked on his door with a warrant for his arrest, but he refused to let them in or come outside.

0
💬 0

2747.098 - 2764.885 Ash

He wasn't letting them in and he wasn't going out there. That's not shady at all. No. So after speaking with the county attorney, the detectives were actually given the authority to take him by force. So they kicked down his door and they put him under arrest without further incident, luckily. Now, once they were at the station, he said he didn't know anything about Carol's murder.

0
💬 0

2765.205 - 2778.355 Ash

He refused to say anything more without a lawyer. Now, obviously, this was frustrating. But by then, investigators had already found a second witness. Shut up. A man named Henry Butler, who was now in custody pending trial for a robbery.

0
💬 0

2778.375 - 2779.696 Elena

Is everyone okay?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2780.416 - 2781.177 Elena

The answer is no.

0
💬 0

2781.237 - 2802.043 Ash

Criminals are everywhere. Criminals in your hair. You'd be criminaling. Everybody stays criminal in this time of St. Paul. So Henry Butler claimed that he had seen Norman Mastrian in possession of the stolen pistol, but he said he also saw Norman give the gun to another man. Shut up. This gun is changing hands yet again.

0
💬 0

2802.063 - 2826.028 Ash

And this time it goes to Dick Anderson, yet another criminal who had left town a few days earlier. Well, and this seems shady, too. So the connections that led from Willard Ingram to Norman Mastrian to Henry Butler, those all made sense. They all had very lengthy criminal histories. They were all known to associate with other criminals, like It was like a criminal fucking enterprise.

0
💬 0

2826.048 - 2844.848 Ash

Yeah, they just stay criminaling. Yeah, they stay criminaling, like you said. But Dick Anderson, on the other hand, he made less sense. He was a twice-wounded military vet who had fallen on really hard times, and he turned to petty burglary just to try to get by. But he seemed to be a far cry from the more hardened criminals that he was currently being associated with.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

2845.709 - 2867.402 Ash

But once the warrant for Dick Anderson's arrest went out, St. Paul police got a tip from a reporter that he was actually staying at the Tropics Motor Hotel in Phoenix, Arizona. So when Phoenix police arrived at the motel, actually, they found Anderson in the lobby, luggage in hand, ready to check out, presumably to avoid arrest. Whoa. He had definitely been tipped off. Yeah.

0
💬 0

2867.942 - 2884.031 Ash

It turned out that the fucking reporter who gave the tip to police about him being in Phoenix in the first place actually conducted a phone interview with Dick Anderson and let him know that the police were looking for him in relation to this murder and this whole slew of shady characters.

0
💬 0

2884.111 - 2886.352 Elena

What a dumbass. Right? Like, are you serious?

0
💬 0

2886.372 - 2887.673 Ash

I'm like, what are you looking for here?

0
💬 0

2887.793 - 2889.293 Elena

And you're fucking up the investigation.

0
💬 0

2889.314 - 2904.107 Ash

Exactly. What are you doing? Like, you're playing both sides. I know what he's looking for. He's looking for a byline. Exactly. Exactly. So Anderson told the reporter that he was only in Phoenix for a few days for vacation and that he didn't know anybody named Norman Mastrian. He didn't know anybody named Henley Butler or Willard Ingram.

0
💬 0

2905.488 - 2934.348 Ash

He repeated these denials to the Phoenix police once he was arrested. Wow. Yeah. He then said, Okay. This murdered woman is a big stink. Is a big stink here? I would say so. Yeah. So while detectives in St.

0
💬 0

2934.388 - 2944.017 Ash

Paul waited on Anderson's extradition hearing, they started interviewing his friends, including the man who had actually been arrested with him in Phoenix, a man named Richard Sharp, another character.

0
💬 0

2944.037 - 2945.058 Elena

Richard Sharp, another guy.

0
💬 0

2945.578 - 2955.064 Ash

Like Anderson and the others, Sharp was an own criminal. He had actually fled to Arizona with Anderson to avoid prosecution for a recent burglary that he was involved in.

0
💬 0

2955.104 - 2961.908 Elena

Can all of these men stop stealing other people's shit? They literally cannot and will not. Yeah, sticky fingers Magoo gang here.

0
💬 0

2962.388 - 2980.32 Ash

But like the others, he was willing to exchange information in order to get leniency on his own shit. So in a 23-page statement given to the police, Sharp told investigators that Dick Anderson was lying. He said Dick Anderson actually was the one who murdered Carol Thompson.

0
💬 0

2980.601 - 2981.621 Elena

What the fuck?

0
💬 0

2981.741 - 3002.535 Ash

And that he needed Sharp to contact the quote-unquote payoff man on his behalf. Shut up. He was waiting for his money. According to the statement, Anderson told Sharp that Norman Mastrian had paid him $3,000 to kill Carol Thompson. What? Yeah, so it literally just all went full circle. Holy crap.

0
💬 0

3002.695 - 3014.737 Ash

Now, investigators actually did find that Norman Mastrian had paid Dick Anderson to kill Carol Thompson. But what they couldn't figure out was why some small-time criminal with mob ties would want a St. Paul housewife dead.

0
💬 0

3015.117 - 3022.959 Elena

Like, how did that connect? When I said earlier, like, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have connections to organized crime. She doesn't. Whoa. But somehow they know about her.

0
💬 0

3022.999 - 3046.357 Ash

But it's just like, how did it end up here? Right. So they're sitting there trying to figure out exactly what you just said, and they get another lucky break when they arrest yet another motherfucking criminal, Sheldon Morris, who was a local cab driver and friend of Norman Mastrian's, who claimed he knew where Dick Anderson had disposed of the rest of the pistol that they were still looking for.

0
💬 0

3046.397 - 3064.884 Ash

The stolen pistol. Shit. Under threat of prosecution as a co-conspirator in the murder at this point, Sheldon Morris led detectives to a remote location in the woods where the gun had been tossed. Wow. And they found it. Shut up! Yes. So now with the murder weapon in their possession and the murder suspect on his way to St.

0
💬 0

3064.924 - 3090.395 Ash

Paul from Arizona, investigators were really close to closing the case on Carol Thompson's murder. They knew that Norman Mastrian had received the murder weapon from Willard Ingram. He's the one who stole it in the first place. So Willard Ingram breaks into the house of the man who had made this pistol. And then he gives it to Norman Mastrian. And then Norman Mastrian gives it to Dick Anderson.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3095.698 - 3095.678 Elena

$3,000?

0
💬 0

3095.718 - 3097.158 Ash

$3,000. To take a human life. Yes. Okay.

0
💬 0

3100.76 - 3118.665 Elena

Can you imagine how excited the investigators felt after going through this whole thing and finally getting this fucking gun, this murder weapon, in the middle of the woods? Like, can you imagine how... It must be the most insane feeling to finally get there.

0
💬 0

3118.685 - 3135.313 Ash

They literally started with next to nothing, and they asked the public for help, and this guy thankfully comes forward and is like, yes, that is my gun, but it was stolen. But to pull that thread. And then they track down four or five different criminals and local criminals in the area. Exactly. That's what I mean.

0
💬 0

3135.353 - 3142.417 Elena

They pulled that thread and kept pulling it, and to end up with the actual murder weapon in the middle of the woods is wild for me.

0
💬 0

3142.717 - 3158.248 Ash

And crazy how like all of these people were willing to turn on each other because they all, they lucked out because they all had cases that they were facing. That they wanted to get, yeah. That they wanted leniency on, exactly. So it was just like lucky strike after lucky strike.

0
💬 0

3159.469 - 3174.339 Ash

So they knew all of this now, but they were still missing the last piece of the puzzle that would, you know, wrap this entire story together, make it make sense. Yeah. They needed to know who hired Norman Mastrian in the first place because he didn't know Carol. Why would he want her dead? Where is this coming from?

0
💬 0

3174.779 - 3196.209 Ash

So just like they had done earlier, detectives went back to the basics of the case, and they looked for anything that would connect Norman Mastrian to the Thompson family. And that's when they found that list of previous clients that Cotton had given them at the start of this whole investigation. And, of course, it included a familiar name, Norman Mastrian. So there's no disgruntled former client.

0
💬 0

3196.309 - 3220.479 Ash

Nope. It was a client that you felt so comfortable with. Precisely. Pre-fucking-cisely. Oy. So after Mastrian was arrested that previous year on the suspicion of the kidnapping and the murder, he consulted with Cotton Thompson about potentially suing the county for false arrest. Even though everybody was pretty convinced that he did this, he was so ballsy that he was willing to sue the county.

0
💬 0

3221.08 - 3225.562 Ash

Luckily, the suit never went forward, but it was the only connection they could find between the two of them.

0
💬 0

3226.143 - 3226.443 Ash or Elena

Wow.

0
💬 0

3226.603 - 3236.929 Ash

The last piece of the puzzle finally fell into place when St. Paul detectives were able to get Dick Anderson back in custody in Minnesota. Because remember, he was in Phoenix, but they sent him on over.

0
💬 0

3237.069 - 3238.01 Elena

They extradited him.

0
💬 0

3238.49 - 3257.863 Ash

Now, for some reason, I have such trouble with the word extradited. Extradited. Like, I can say it in a conversation, but when I look at it, I can't say it how I'm supposed to. I have words like that, too. Yeah, it's so weird. So they get him back. Initially, he stuck to his story. He denied knowing anything about the murder. He didn't know any of these people. Why am I even here? Who, me?

0
💬 0

3258.043 - 3259.063 Ash

Where am I, even?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3259.444 - 3272.632 Ash

I didn't steal the cookie from the cookie jar. No. Not me. That's literally all I could think of the entire time I was going through this. He's just like, nope, we're on the same page. But by late June, he finally broke down and confessed and told them everything they wanted to know.

0
💬 0

3273.512 - 3280.877 Ash

According to Dick Anderson, he had been hired by Norman Mastrian to kill Carol, but it was Cotton Thompson who had arranged the entire hit.

0
💬 0

3281.017 - 3281.677 Elena

Fuck you, Cotton.

0
💬 0

3281.697 - 3291.904 Ash

Her husband. According to Dick Anderson, he'd been given instructions to sneak into the house through the side door before dawn and wait in the basement until everybody had left the house.

0
💬 0

3291.964 - 3303.612 Elena

He had this motherfucker come into his house while his children were still in this house. His four children. He had a mobster with a fucking rap sheet sneak into his goddamn house while his kids were in there. Yeah.

0
💬 0

3304.432 - 3305.653 Ash

Never mind what he did to Carol.

0
💬 0

3305.673 - 3306.033 Elena

Yeah, exactly.

0
💬 0

3306.294 - 3312.322 Ash

Exactly. Dick Anderson doesn't have mob ties. It's Norman Mastrian who has mob ties. Dick Anderson.

0
💬 0

3312.502 - 3318.626 Elena

Dick Anderson is like the guy who they were like, this doesn't even make sense that he's connected to all these criminals because he's like a petty thief.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3319.767 - 3326.492 Elena

He's the one that you wouldn't even, my goodness. You wouldn't even expect him. That's the thing. And he's a brutal fucking monster.

0
💬 0

3327.372 - 3342.86 Ash

Who knew? There's so many people involved in this that it's so hard to keep track of everybody. But he really is the last person that they would have expected. Yeah, he's the one that they were like, why is this guy connected to all this? He's literally like a military vet, like not tied up in the mob, not tied up in just petty shit. Exactly.

0
💬 0

3343.78 - 3355.424 Ash

So, yeah, he has this guy just fucking sit in his basement while his kids are getting ready to go off to school. And his wife is, you know, preparing him for the day. This guy he doesn't know. Has no idea what he's capable of. Yeah. Yep. Wow. It's so messed up.

0
💬 0

3355.864 - 3366.768 Ash

So the plan was that Cotton would make a phone call to the house once he got to work, which would be Dick Anderson's signal to act because he would hear the phone ring. And then he would know that everybody except Carol was out of the house.

0
💬 0

3367.688 - 3387.996 Ash

So that morning, Cotton filled the bathtub with six or seven inches of water, and the plan was for Dick Anderson to strike Carol on the back of the head with a heavy piece of rubber hose, which they hoped would knock her unconscious. And when she'd been disabled, Anderson was to place her body in the bathtub, making it seem like Carol had hit her head getting into the tub and drowned.

0
💬 0

3388.636 - 3401.564 Ash

Oh, so he really put some thought into this. Oh, he did. Because the accidental death would have triggered the double indemnity clause in several of the insurance policies, thus paying up a higher amount. Oh, so he was hoping this would look like a total accident.

0
💬 0

3401.604 - 3423.879 Ash

Yeah, it's god-awful what happened to Carol, but it's also like, yeah, that's why you don't hire somebody to murder your fucking wife, dude, because it's not going to work out for you. Nope. But unfortunately, like we just said, things did not go to plan. So after Cotton placed the call to the house, Anderson started going up the stairs from the basement, but the stairs were creaking as he walked.

0
💬 0

3424.439 - 3442.852 Ash

So he was nervous that the noise was going to give him away. So he waited a minute or two. And during that time, Carol went back upstairs to lay down in bed, which sounds like something she probably never did. Yeah. Because she was so busy all the time. But she just goes back to her own bedroom. Yeah. and Anderson appears in the doorway of her room. Oh, God.

0
💬 0

3442.932 - 3460.645 Ash

So she panicked, assuming that it was a robbery, and she jumped out of bed, which he then immediately hit her on the back of the head with the hose, but it didn't disable her like they hoped it would. Instead, Carol fought back hard, and she was actually able to knock him to the floor, and she made a break for the stairs.

0
💬 0

3460.665 - 3461.325 Elena

Oh, she got out.

0
💬 0

3461.625 - 3465.468 Ash

And she stopped quickly to grab her robe so that she wouldn't run out of the house indecent.

0
💬 0

3465.608 - 3465.828 Elena

Oh, no.

0
💬 0

3466.129 - 3477.437 Ash

Yeah. Anderson caught up with her in the hallway, but she was able to escape him again, and she ran for the front door. But when she reached the front door, she found that it had been locked with a chain lock.

0
💬 0

3478.619 - 3479.58 Ash or Elena

Holy shit.

0
💬 0

3479.82 - 3498.873 Ash

When you hear why this was locked, it's going to break your heart. So as she fumbled to get the chain off the door, Dick Anderson obviously caught up with her and pointed the gun at Carol. Now still thinking that she was being robbed, she took her diamond ring off her finger, her wedding ring, and offered it to him. But he responded by pulling the trigger of the gun.

0
💬 0

3499.954 - 3512.066 Ash

To both of their surprise, the gun jammed. Sending him into a panic, and that's when he started beating her with the gun so aggressively that the pistol grip broke and fell to the floor.

0
💬 0

3512.186 - 3513.288 Elena

Holy shit.

0
💬 0

3513.748 - 3531.033 Ash

It was also at this point that those three rounds from the clip came loose and dropped to the floor, so that's why they found those unspent clips. Now, when the beating didn't appear to have killed Carol, he went to the kitchen and grabbed a paring knife from the door, which he used to stab Carol until the handle broke.

0
💬 0

3531.613 - 3553.861 Ash

Now, finally convinced that she was dead, he went upstairs to the bathroom where he tried to wash the blood off his hands and arms. And he went to the bedroom to stage the scene to look like a robbery. And while he was staging the scene, he heard a noise downstairs and ran to look by the door. And that's when he saw that Carol was gone. So she most likely actually played dead to make it seem like.

0
💬 0

3554.041 - 3571.325 Ash

So she could escape out the front door. Like she fought him as hard as she did and then had the whereabouts to pretend she was dead so she could get away. That is horrifying. So panicked when he saw that she was gone, he stopped what he was doing and he fled the house from the kitchen door and got the fuck out of there.

0
💬 0

3571.785 - 3572.145 Ash or Elena

Wow. Wow.

0
💬 0

3582.313 - 3603.742 Unknown Announcer

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💬 0

3604.103 - 3612.312 Unknown Announcer

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0
💬 0

3617.89 - 3630.198 Ash

Now, this is gut-wrenching. Years later, Jeff Thompson, Cotton and Carol's son, would recall that on the morning of his mother's murder, his father instructed him to put the chain on the front door before they left for school.

0
💬 0

3630.218 - 3643.013 Elena

Oh, what a piece of actual fucking shit. He had his son do it. You put that on your kid? Yep. Like, fuck this guy into oblivion. Into oblivion. Fuck this guy.

0
💬 0

3643.033 - 3662.286 Ash

And Jeff even said he thought it was strange because they never chained the door. And he said if it hadn't been locked, obviously his mother would have been able to escape her attacker. He said, I had never done that before. I haven't forgiven my father. And you never should. Never. Fuck that guy. Never. I don't want you to do any of this, but you put that on your fucking son.

0
💬 0

3662.326 - 3665.589 Ash

You can't even just go do it. You're making him a part of this.

0
💬 0

3665.609 - 3675.477 Elena

He had a man, a criminal, who he has no idea what he's capable of hiding his house while his kids are walking around upstairs. He has zero moral compass.

0
💬 0

3676.298 - 3694.961 Ash

To involve your kids like that is so, so messed up. Piece of garbage. So on June 21st, 1963, you will all be very happy to hear detectives arrested Cotton Thompson in connection with the murder, labeling him as the payoff man in the conspiracy. Because remember, they were looking for the payoff man.

0
💬 0

3695.661 - 3709.146 Ash

When he appeared before the judge for his arraignment, Cotton, quote, looked haggard, had tears in his eyes, and his voice cracked as he answered the judge's questions. Oh, fuck you and your tears. Yeah, get fucked. The news of Cotton's arrest obviously shocked the friends and neighbors of the Thompson family.

0
💬 0

3709.667 - 3724.875 Ash

One neighbor said there was no conflict between the Thompsons recognizable or known to their closest friends. And others recalled how, quote, he and Carol never missed a Sunday taking the kids to church and how Cotton was active with Jeff's scout troop. All of it. Like everybody was shocked.

0
💬 0

3725.515 - 3745.602 Ash

Even the most obvious mode of the large insurance payout even didn't really make that much sense to everybody. Because remember, he's a successful lawyer. He's making like $40,000 a year back then, which today is more than like $400,000 a year. Yeah, like come on. Yeah, he's like essentially making a doctor salary. Yeah. So it wasn't like he was in desperate need of money.

0
💬 0

3746.642 - 3762.576 Ash

But in reality, the motive for Carol's murder had pretty much been staring them in the face since the beginning of the investigation. There were so many claims that they were this ideal couple, but it seemed like the neighborhood gossip had been right all along. Cotton and Carol's marriage was on the rocks for a long time.

0
💬 0

3763.496 - 3779.575 Ash

Author William Swanson said, "...there were all kinds of things that wouldn't jive with Cotton's idea of a wife and mother in 1963." Before they were married, Carol had obviously big dreams and she envisioned a very exciting life for herself. She wanted to go after all her interests, all her passions.

0
💬 0

3780.075 - 3790.442 Ash

But her marriage and obviously the quick arrival of children pretty much sidelined all of her goals and required that she turn her attention to supporting her husband's ambitions. Yeah. Yeah.

0
💬 0

3791.543 - 3795.445 Elena

But regardless... It's the perfect time for that tune. It's 1963 especially.

0
💬 0

3795.685 - 3812.532 Ash

Exactly. Exactly. But regardless of how she felt about having to prioritize her responsibilities as a wife and mother, like I said in the beginning, she approached all her new responsibilities with like open arms. She was happy to do everything she had to do. And by all accounts, she was a great wife. She was a great mother. Yeah.

0
💬 0

3813.292 - 3833.669 Ash

But the longer they were married, people said the more unhappy Carol had become. That author, Swanson, said, Cotton was a tough, self-absorbed character, and soon it became clear that he was intent on doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted to. He was having affairs with other women, and he was just completely indifferent to Carol's wants, Carol's needs.

0
💬 0

3834.17 - 3841.495 Elena

Wow, so he's just like a literal slimy piece of... Fucking dung. Yeah.

0
💬 0

3841.675 - 3861.859 Ash

On the bottom of an elephant's foot. Yeah, I would say like he's even lower than that. Yeah. Honestly. Later, their son Jeff would say, I know my mother knew about my dad's affairs. She was saddened by a lot of his behavior, so it would not surprise me if she was to reach out to another person. Oh, that breaks my heart. Which honestly is probably why she was so close with Kenneth Morin. Yeah.

0
💬 0

3861.999 - 3869.524 Ash

Like, I'm sure they... Like, she just wanted somebody to be there for her. She needed someone. And it doesn't even really sound like they were having any kind of, like, almost an affair.

0
💬 0

3869.544 - 3872.006 Elena

Yeah, just, like, someone that pays attention and is kind to her.

0
💬 0

3872.166 - 3892.3 Ash

Yeah, and, like, of course that other person was Kenneth Morin. They had shared interests together. Yeah. They gave a shit about each other. And... You know, nobody really knows if there was an affair or not. But it seemed pretty obvious to everybody that there was some kind of connection to each other. And that was until Cotton put an end to that relationship.

0
💬 0

3892.32 - 3897.764 Elena

Which makes me even angrier that that motherfucker was out there doing everything he wanted and he was being that possessive.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3898.244 - 3905.85 Elena

And here I was being like, oh, yeah, you know, like, I guess when you're in the relationship. But he was doing whatever the fuck he wanted out there in those streets. Yeah, whoever and whatever.

0
💬 0

3905.91 - 3906.23 Ash

Asshole.

0
💬 0

3906.31 - 3911.092 Elena

Exactly. She just has a male friend and you're, ugh. Literally just a friend. Fuck you, Cotton.

0
💬 0

3911.232 - 3926.255 Ash

But the final straw, at least as far as Cotton was concerned, came just one day before Carol was murdered. Apparently that afternoon, seemingly out of nowhere, Carol turned to her daughter Margaret and asked what she would do if she went away for a while. Like, what would you do if mom went away for a while?

0
💬 0

3926.996 - 3942.479 Ash

And Jeff Thompson remembered this happening, and he said, Margaret was very surprised and concerned, and the thought was that she was planning on leaving my father. Looking back on it, I hope she was. However, she would have been foolish to tell him. Oh, Jeff. I want to give Jeff a hug. I know, I do too.

0
💬 0

3943.56 - 3956.906 Ash

Now, nobody knows if Margaret said anything to her father about her mother planning to leave or if he just came to that conclusion on his own. But either way, it seemed that Cotton Thompson knew or strongly suspected that Carol was most likely planning on leaving him.

0
💬 0

3957.446 - 3961.788 Elena

Yeah, and I mean, those policies were set to expire the following month.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

3962.128 - 3964.509 Elena

So he was... It's either act now or don't act.

0
💬 0

3964.669 - 3977.334 Ash

Exactly. So he quickly made sure, made plans that she would never get out of this marriage. Fuck that guy. Which is... It's like, you don't want to be married either. Yeah. You're... You're going here, there, and everywhere with everyone.

0
💬 0

3977.354 - 3980.356 Elena

Well, and he wants all this fucking money. It's like you're making that money.

0
💬 0

3980.496 - 3987.181 Ash

That's the thing. I'm like, why can't you do it at a certain point? What are you doing with it? Exactly. Why do you need more? You just don't at a certain point.

0
💬 0

3987.201 - 3999.789 Elena

It's not like you're struggling. It's not like one of these situations where it's like the family is struggling financially and they're like last, you know, and it's obviously it's never okay. But in those situations, there's a desperation factor that like plays into it.

0
💬 0

3999.829 - 4015.445 Ash

That wasn't even here. That's not even here. He just wanted more. Yeah. I'm like, you have four kids. Holy shit. They all are doing what they want to do as far as activities. It sounds like you guys are throwing parties or throwing events. Like, what do you need more for? Why? Fuck that guy.

0
💬 0

4015.97 - 4031.876 Ash

But after several delays and a change of venue, Cotton Thompson finally went on trial for the murder of his wife on October 27th, 1963. He pleaded innocent, and in his opening statements, prosecutor William Randall laid out the state's theory about Thompson's motive for the murder.

0
💬 0

4032.156 - 4043.04 Ash

He said the motive was not only to enable Mr. Thompson to collect the more than $1 million in life insurance he had recently taken out on his wife's life, but also to free him up to see other women.

0
💬 0

4043.14 - 4043.942 Elena

So just leave.

0
💬 0

4044.122 - 4049.052 Ash

Just leave. They'd all be better off without you anyways. Wouldn't have got his money, so he wouldn't have been happy.

0
💬 0

4049.072 - 4050.635 Elena

You have plenty of money, you piece of shit.

0
💬 0

4050.775 - 4068.311 Ash

Seriously. But Randall pointed to Cotton's long history of infidelity. And one particular incident a year earlier where he apparently told his mistress, just give me 11 months, implying that after that time frame he would be able to marry her. Girl. Just give me 11 months.

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4068.331 - 4079.414 Elena

Why the fuck are you being so specific? Yeah, it's like, girl, come on. First of all, stop fucking a married guy. And second of all, when he's giving you a time frame, you got to wonder. You got to wonder what that time frame implies.

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4079.434 - 4100.92 Ash

You sure do. You sure do. Testifying for the prosecution, one of the several insurance agents told the jury about the quote sense of urgency Cotton conveyed to them when he was buying up all of these policies. Eleven months before Carol's death. Come on. Cotton told one agent that he had a quote unquote premonition in which Carol would meet with a tragic accident.

0
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4102.307 - 4104.59 Ash

And no one thought to tell anyone?

0
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4104.61 - 4108.875 Elena

No. Guys, we got to use the stuff between your ears here.

0
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4108.895 - 4115.664 Ash

Your gray matter, as public would say. What are you doing? Yeah, he said that was why he was in such a hurry to get all these policies.

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4115.684 - 4139.28 Elena

So some guy, some high-powered defense attorney... who's like fucking everything with two legs, is out here telling you that he's got to get 85 life insurance policies on his wife, his young wife, his young healthy wife. His family, too. And he's got to do it quick, quick, quick, quick. And you know why? He had a vision. You know, it's so weird.

0
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4139.3 - 4150.908 Elena

I just have this weird vision that she's going to meet with a tragic accident and die. And none of you sat there and said, you know what? We might want to call someone and maybe put some tabs on that guy because I feel like that's shady behavior.

0
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4150.988 - 4151.408 Unknown Announcer

No.

0
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4151.468 - 4157.732 Elena

They were just like, sure, sign it here. I'll get my check. Okay, cool. It's all money. Everyone's just like, whatever. I got paid. Yep. Money talks.

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4157.932 - 4176.604 Ash

Damn. Yeah. No, this is what the defense went with. The defense explained that Cotton was just an eccentric when it came to insurance. No, no. He's just eccentric. No, that's not one of those things. He's just kooky. He just, you know, he just fucking loves insurance. Just loves insurance. You guys know Jake from State Farm? Cotton's kind of like that.

0
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4176.624 - 4186.268 Ash

You know, Cotton, insurance is my kink kind of guy, you know? It's his thing. That's not okay. Nobody's eccentric when it comes to life insurance policies.

0
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4186.288 - 4194.731 Elena

An eccentric for life insurance. Like what? Hello? Are we really just giving them that? So we're really just like not taking all the responsibility off him.

0
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4194.771 - 4214.078 Ash

Ridiculous. So pointing to the excessive coverage he'd purchased for his home and car, they continued to say he was an eccentric. But he still loves it. Those amounts were also double the average coverage at the time. So he really did put like excess coverage on everything. He is eccentric when it comes to home insurance and life insurance.

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4215.018 - 4232.712 Ash

But if the urgency and amount of coverage Cotton had purchased on his wife's life weren't compelling enough, the testimony of the state's chief witness, Dick Anderson, definitely gave insight to Cotton's cruelty. Oh, boy. On the stand, Anderson recalled the attack on Carol, and he said, She managed to get out of the tub, so I knew I had trouble.

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4233.172 - 4254.606 Ash

I was instructed either way, so I went to pull the gun. So Cotton told Dick, no matter what happens, you pull that trigger and you kill her. Wow. He is so fucking cold. I don't care what happens. Yeah. He then explained, Dick explained to the jury in no uncertain times that he had been hired by Norman Mastrian who was hired by Cotton.

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4255.447 - 4264.711 Ash

Also, according to Anderson, there was supposed to be a second murder. Anderson quoted Norman as telling him, the broad's father will be next in six or seven months.

0
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4266.012 - 4266.712 Unknown Announcer

Apparently.

0
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4266.812 - 4278.801 Ash

What the fuck? They were going to kill Carol's dad as well. Apparently, this was Cotton's plan to gain an even greater access to Carol's family fortune, which she would have inherited upon her father's death.

0
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4279.814 - 4303.981 Ash

i am so if she's dead and her father dies cotton and kids get everything so this guy is a literal fucking monster yeah like no amount of money would ever satiate that man that's like what is wrong with you like what is wrong with that's more money than you'll ever be like what is wrong with and i just i never understand valuing that much money over human life like That's the thing.

0
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4304.021 - 4323.057 Ash

And especially, and we always say this, I feel like, when it comes to a spouse murdering another spouse, but it's like, you take vows. You walk down the aisle with that person. In this case, you procreate multiple, multiple times with this person, and you don't feel anything? That's the thing. I'm like, you don't feel anything? You don't feel any connection to them?

0
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4323.417 - 4332.724 Ash

Drew and I get in a little tiff, and I'm like, I'm the worst horrible woman in the world, and I feel so bad. Like... What? You don't feel anything.

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4332.884 - 4360.456 Elena

That's what I don't get. Like, I'm like, I could never, I can't imagine causing harm to John. No. Or having someone else cause harm to John. For money. Emotionally, physically, anything. Anything, but for money. Like, I, and it, like, I just can't, I can't even picture, I can't even picture the thinking that money is going to, like, Like, that you're going to hold that money and feel good.

0
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4360.996 - 4365.059 Elena

Like, what is wrong with you? I think he would have. You have to be dead inside.

0
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4365.099 - 4366.821 Ash

I think he absolutely is. You have to be dead inside.

0
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0
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4369.883 - 4390.717 Ash

Wow. And also, like, to kill your wife, one, is absolutely just, like, unthinkable. Then to kill her grieving father six or seven months later. First of all, you're going to make him wait six or seven months. Yeah. And then secondly, you're also killing her father. Like, why? So her poor mother has just lost her daughter and her husband? Yeah. Jesus.

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4391.558 - 4406.525 Ash

So Cotton Thompson did testify on his own behalf, essentially telling the court that he had nothing to do with his wife's murder and that the extent of his relationship with Norman Mastrian was just an advisor one year earlier. But he didn't really say much else to convince the jury that he had no connection to the murder. Yeah.

0
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4407.125 - 4429.132 Ash

Instead, the defense just argued that the jury couldn't trust a chain of circumstantial evidence and the testimony of criminals who had all turned on each other in exchange for lighter sentences. But on December 7th, 1963, the jury deliberated for more than 26 hours before emerging to announce that they found T. Eugene Cotton Thompson guilty. Yes.

0
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4429.352 - 4440.776 Ash

Of the first degree murder of his wife, Carol Thompson. Bye, bitch. And when asked about how they arrived at the verdict, one juror said, "...there was no one primary reason for our verdict. We thought of the case as a whole."

0
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4441.636 - 4456.157 Ash

And after waiving his right to a delay in sentencing, Judge Rolf Fawson immediately sentenced Cotton to life in prison, which at the time was the required sentence in cases of premeditated murder in Minnesota. Rot, bitch. Rot.

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4456.818 - 4469.163 Ash

And in the months that followed, Norman Mastrian and Dick Anderson were both tried and both were found guilty of first-degree murder, meaning they both also got life sentences. Yeah, as you should. Now, Cotton appealed his conviction, of course. Shut up.

0
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4469.203 - 4510.328 Ash

He appealed to the state Supreme Court in 1966, arguing for a new trial on the grounds that he had been convicted on false testimony provided by several of his criminal co-conspirators. But the Supreme Court upheld the lower court's decision and denied the motion for a new trial. Wow. Wow. Jeff is, like, a very – he's a really good person, it seems.

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4510.348 - 4511.349 Elena

He's elevated higher.

0
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4511.649 - 4534.541 Ash

Yeah. Than, you know, most people. Like, that is – That's Carol's son. I was going to say that is Carol's son. That's Carol's son. That's not Cotton's son. I mean, it is Cotton's son. I'm not saying that, but you know what I'm saying. Yes. Now, just for kicks, on August 7th, 2015, on his 88th birthday, Cotton Thompson died in his sleep after struggling with failing health for several years.

0
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4534.982 - 4538.123 Ash

And if that's not the universe saying, ha ha ha ha ha.

0
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4538.163 - 4542.864 Elena

Especially on his birthday, because I was like, I do hate that he got to die peacefully in his sleep.

0
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4543.004 - 4546.207 Ash

And I hate that he lived 88 years. Like, that's a long-ass life.

0
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4546.227 - 4550.711 Elena

He got to, like, at least be out. Yeah, that pisses me off. He got a lot of time on the other side.

0
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4550.731 - 4555.055 Ash

But rest in fucking distress. And the universe is always gonna get ya.

0
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4555.415 - 4558.258 Elena

You're gonna die on your birthday if you do some fuck shit, okay?

0
💬 0

4559.62 - 4565.427 Ash

Wow. I told you. It's one of those cases that just starts and doesn't stop. It doesn't stop.

0
💬 0

4565.547 - 4568.691 Elena

Like one. And poor Carol. I know.

0
💬 0

4568.711 - 4572.535 Ash

And her kids. And that's the thing. Like her kids just went to school that day.

0
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0
💬 0

4573.216 - 4586.763 Ash

And had no idea. And Jeff, poor Jeff, his dad told him lock that door. And then he spent the rest of his life thinking, what if I hadn't locked that door? Like, why did my dad make me lock? Like, I can't imagine the psychological damage that would do to you.

0
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4586.803 - 4597.908 Elena

That's the thing. Like, you'd be constantly thinking, like, why didn't I just ignore that? But it's like, why would you ever ignore that? And especially in 1963, you're not disobeying your father when he tells you to do something. Yeah.

0
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4598.388 - 4623.625 Elena

definitely not like that was just you did what you were told yeah by a parent who is supposed to be a safe place and that you are supposed to feel comfortable doing what you're told and why would you question that you know like he said like they never locked that door so he did kind of question it but he's not gonna out loud question it and he's not gonna sit there and think okay he's having me lock that because he's gonna have my mom killed and he doesn't want her to escape like that's not gonna be in your head you can never come up with that that's your worst nightmare

0
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4624.185 - 4632.389 Ash

That's an awful, awful case. It's such a sad case, too, because you, in the beginning, like, when I started reading about this case, I was like, oh, like, she's going to live. She's going to pull through.

0
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4632.409 - 4633.189 Unknown Announcer

That's what I thought.

0
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4633.929 - 4649.896 Ash

It's just so sad. That's awful. But she was a fighter. She fought hard to think that she literally dragged herself or crawled a block away after sustaining what she sustained. Yeah. Running around that house multiple times, getting out of the bathtub, like...

0
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4650.837 - 4671.419 Ash

oh my god she's unbelievable truly damn but what a tragic case it really is but um as always we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but it's a way that you go and take out eight life insurance policies on your wife because somebody these days is gonna say hey that's weird and you're not just eccentric and i'm gonna call somebody yep

0
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4672.04 - 4683.616 Ash

And if you work at a life insurance company, call somebody. Call somebody. Say, hey, this guy just took out eight life insurance policies on his wife, and that's kind of weird. And he needs them within 11 months because he had a premonition that she's going to die unexpectedly in a tragic accident.

0
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0
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4732.611 - 4745.765 Ash

If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com.

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4748.257 - 4767.104 Lindsey Graham

Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle.

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4767.344 - 4786.424 Lindsey Graham

And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.

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4786.764 - 4801.376 Lindsey Graham

Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.

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