Elena
Appearances
Consider This from NPR
Fentanyl deaths are plunging, but it's just the first step
Yeah, I can tell, you know, the numbers drop. A lot more people also started smoking instead of shooting. I think that made a difference.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
literally part of my orientation process was having to do this like goal setting worksheet that they, they then hung everyone's personal goal setting worksheet, like up in the back office. So everyone could see it.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
And it wasn't just goals related to the op, like to the venue, but also like your personal goals, what you want to accomplish, what you want to heal from like things that, you know, in, especially in hindsight, you're like, how did any of these people who I of course now know we're literally just,
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
people like me who had maybe worked there an extra six months longer and had done the extra weekend of manager training, like they were not therapists and yet they were putting all of that information out there. And not only that, but when we would do like evaluations or talking about, you know, our performance reviews or whatever, it was never just about our performance in the store.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
They would bring those goal sheets out. And they would like confront you with them. Like, well, what have you done to accomplish this goal? What have you been doing to make more friends in your personal life? How have you been. Striving to move through the stages of grief while like things that you're just like, this is not about fucking folding pants. This is none of your goddamn business.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
And they would do it in places like Starbucks. Like I have a really traumatic memory of my manager and the assistant manager who was training to be a manager. sitting me down at a Starbucks and they started by giving me this little like gift card. Like you've been such a great team member. We're so proud of you. And then pulling out my goal sheet and like hammering me about things.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
Like I was in the process of planning my wedding. They were asking me questions about that. And I remember just like sitting there basically dissociating, trying to hold back tears in this Starbucks, clutching this gift card in my hands going like, I don't even know.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
how I got here and I honestly don't even remember how we got back to the store like I feel like I just kind of shut down and they kept throwing questions at me until it was apparent that I was like monosyllabic at best and then they just brought me back to the store and had me open boxes in the back whole like wholly inappropriate not necessary and I'm sorry the job was opening boxes folding pants and like
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
writing people's names on change room boards. It was not changing the world.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
Yeah. I mean, it was, I'm trying to think like, it's also been almost 20 years. So like, I mean, everything was always about positivity. Like they gave, they used the word feedback all the time. They were constantly looking for customer feedback, client feedback, but they always wanted it spun very positively.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
So like, for example, if a client or customer was like, Hey, I want to give you feedback on these pants. They stain really easy. If you wrote that on the board, you would get in trouble because it wasn't a positive spin.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
They would want you to write it like these pants could be improved with stain resistance, as opposed to like, these pants are very easily stained with sweat and body oils, which like is a valid concern. Yeah. In athletic wear. They used the term defensiveness to try and kind of stop any negative feedback about the company or their policies.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
So anytime, like for example, when I took over merchandising, we were on Bloor Street and our window was directly beside Hermes. And I was given a budget usually of between $100 and $150 to like put together, like buy things to put together our window. And like, I thought I got pretty creative and not to say that I'm a fucking genius. I'm sure some of my stuff could have improved.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
But I remember having one of the like head merchandisers from head office come to give me feedback. And some of it was useful and whatever, but then they got into like, well, let's take a comparative look at us and Hermes. Like, how could we look more expensive? And I was like, well, an easy way would be for us to increase our budget.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
Like I know from speaking to the merchandiser there that they spend 10 grand on a budget and we spend at best 150. And immediately it was like, well, you don't need to be defensive. So yeah, defensiveness was very much just a general term for any time you disagreed with anyone.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
No, I was definitely, it was around when they were talking about moving me up into being the assistant merchandiser. It was around then that they started kind of suggesting to me that I should do Landmark. And I chatted with a few of the people who had done it. And I'll be honest, I didn't click with a lot of the people I worked with. There was a couple that I really did.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
And so of course I was much more interested in their takes on it. Many of the staff who were, as we like to say, drank the Kool-Aid, who were like all in on everything, were always talking about how transformational Landmark was and how wonderful it was.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
But when I spoke to the people that I aligned with more just as a human, their experiences with Landmark had been a lot more uncomfortable and invasive. And so I I did some personal research into it. And at that point I was only like two years into mourning my mom. So I was already going through a lot of therapy.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
I had already done a significant amount of work and was in the process with a team that knew what I was going through of doing work. And so when they first kind of said, Hey, we'd like to book you for this. It's this huge gift. You're you've been doing so well. We want to gift you with this. I said, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
But based on my research, I don't think it's a good fit for me at this time. So I basically gave them my spiel about like, I'm doing the work I need to right now. And I don't really feel comfortable, especially with what I've heard and read at this time, I will keep an open mind in the future.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
And at the time, they were sort of okay with it, but kind of in a way like, okay, well, we'll circle back in a little while.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
I don't know if he went to all the stores, but I think he went to a bunch of the like flagship stores. I'm sure just as a goodwill thing.
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
So he came through our store and like did the super bluff person, the very like presidential kissing babies thing where he like went through the store and like
Infamous
Murder at Lululemon | Part 4
introduced himself personally to each one of the people that was working there and asked you know how how do you like this or how do you like that you know very blah blah blah felt very much like the president walking down the line kissing the babies what were the responsibilities like in the store was it sort of typical retail or did it go beyond i mean for the most part it was like the responsibilities in the store were pretty typical retail but they also like
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I would go to sleep only to wake up with it being open and seeing the creepy dolls staring into my mother freaking soul. Eek. My sister, who doesn't believe in ghosts, told me to compliment the dolls and ask them to chill, which I did. I think she believes in ghosts then. She does because she's like, you better make friends with them. She said be nice to them so they don't eat your soul.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
She said, which I did. I told them they were very pretty, but were freaking me out. Not sure if it helped, though, or if you're supposed to talk to spooky dolls in general. Oops. After this, it went on for days to the point that I needed my boyfriend, a complete skeptic, to come stay with me out of fear. He didn't believe any of it. The closet had those accordion type doors that scrunch open.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i like that whatever one however you spell it footrest thingy i sure don't know how to spell it and still can't figure it out elissa thought i was trying to spell abdomen abdomen that's what i thought when i first read this tale i think it's o-t-t-o-m-a-n that's what i thought because i think it's ottoman or is that like ottoman empire who's that that's like that who the fuck is who's empire
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
a time period. Oh, who knew? Which one? The Ottoman Empire. When was that? I can't tell you. I will claim ignorance on that. I don't know what time period it was. There's also a Vampire Weekend song that played at our wedding called Ottoman. I like that song. It was our cake cutting song. It was. Mine was... Keep going.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I am feeling like I am in orbit right now. Technically, I think aren't we all in orbit? We are sober as a judge, as always, and I am in orbit. Yeah. Yeah. Orbit. Or beat. I am in space. Oh, the auto... Ottoman Empire. Oh, I thought you said... No, no, I did think you said empire. Did you just hear my stomach? Yeah, I did, actually. It was insane.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
The AT&T Guarantee means connectivity you can depend on, deals you want, and service you deserve, or they'll make it right. Visit att.com slash guarantee to learn more. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com slash guarantee for details. Hey, weirdos. I'm Alina. I'm Ash. And this is Marvin. It's Marvin.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh, the Ottoman Empire was an absolute and constitutional monarchy that ruled over a large area of... Oh, I remember this. It's in like the very low numbers.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Well, the 14th century to the early 20th century, though. I don't know a lot about it. I will not claim to. It's also known as the Turkish Empire. I've heard of that.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
All right. So he put an ottoman, not the empire, but the footrest thingy in front of the closet. So I would feel safe and would know that the closet wouldn't be able to open. Well, there you go. Joke's on him because the next morning, the other side of the closet was open. He asked if I had done it, to which I said, no. Uh-uh. No, sir.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
No, sir. I told you this place was spooky. It's spooky. My goodness. Honestly, I'm glad he got spooked out because now he believes me. After that, I hadn't stayed in the house until a month ago. This time I was offered to stay in a different bedroom, to which I gladly accepted.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
yes please there were no creepy dolls but a few odd things there was an exterior house light right outside the window that would turn on and off throughout the night i figured it was a sensor issue or at least that's what i tried to convince myself the bathroom would randomly make weird noises like weird gurgle noises that sounded like they were coming from the ceiling that's the ghost of me
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Just gurgling up in the ceiling. Yes. That was me a second ago. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
My stomach was like. We got to like. I don't even know if we'll need to, but we need to see if we can like amplify that. Yeah, because I'm hungry. Me too. Maybe just another house issue. The flipping wall made weird banging noises off and on too. But I had to pretend it was all just a coincidence anyways, because duh, it's better to avoid problems. It really is.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
But then throughout the night and only at nighttime, I would get an aggressive smell of peach in my nose. That's nice. That is really nice. At first, when I was reading it, I thought you were going to say pee. Yeah, pee wouldn't be great. Like urine. Urine. Urine, but peaches? Peaches, I'll take. Not like an aroma in the room, but like all the way up my nose. How rude. That is a little bit rude.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
It was as if somebody actually shoved an entire ripe peach up my nostril. No thanks, ghosty. Maybe the dogs were farting and whoever in the afterlife felt bad and they were like, you shouldn't smell bad because you're so sweet and you take care of these dogs. They said, here's some peaches. Take some peaches. Millions of peaches. Peaches for free. Up in your nose.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
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Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
The average YNAB user reports saving close to $600 in their first month and $6,000 in their first year. Side effects may include less financial stress, getting better sleep, and eliminating arguments about money. Warning, using YNAB may be habit-forming. Before starting, ask your wallet if adding more joy to every day and every dollar is right for you.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Listeners of Morbid can claim an exclusive three-month trial subscription for free with no credit card required at www.ynab.com slash morbid. That's www.ynab.com slash morbid. Life is short. Spend it well with YNAB. Life doesn't happen biweekly, so why should payday? The money you earn can be in your hands today with Earnin'.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Earnin' is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work, up to $100 per day or up to $750 per pay period. Just download the Earnin' app and verify your paycheck, then access up to $100 a day as you work and leave an optional tip. Any money you access plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck. I feel like this is so perfect because you know...
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
When you're low on cash, that's when these unexpected things pop up. Maybe an unexpected trip to the vet, God forbid. Maybe just like upcoming rent and you just forgot about it. In those moments when money isn't moving as fast as your dreams are, Earnin' provides the financial momentum you need to keep moving forward.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Download Earnin' today, spelled E-A-R-N-I-N, in the Google Play or Apple App Store. When you download the Earnin' app, type in Morbid under Podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. Morbid under Podcast. Subject to your available earnings, location, daily max, and pay period max. See earnin.com slash TOS for details. Earnin is a financial technology company, not a bank.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Bank products are issued by Evolve Bank and Trust member FDIC. I searched for outlets with air fresheners and didn't find anything. It kept occurring the whole stay, only at random creepy times at night. At this point, I decided there was only one logical option. I had to accept that the ghost really wanted me to know that they smelled good, because what else am I going to do?
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I'm stuck here for two weeks. I told the ghostie that I was just there to take care of the pups and asked it to chillax a little so that we could be, you know, buddies. Fair. Not sure that helped either, since those occurrences kept happening over the two weeks. It's safe to say that I was a little bit sleep-deprived, but Peach Ghostie never harmed me, so we're on good terms now.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Yeah, I would say so. Anyways, I've avoided the creepy dolls at all costs, since, like I said, I befriended my peachy ghost friend. Maybe. I'm spending another week at the house now, so maybe I'll have more ghostly encounters. Keeps it weird, but not so weird that ghosts shove very fragrant peaches up your nose.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
attaching pictures of the cute puppies just for fun below as well as scary dolls also going to add my personal fur babies because i love them so so so much i could just melt thanks for everything you guys really are the best so are you i love you oh those are scary the dolls also that scary ship captain doll is a little little much oh you're pupper too wait i need to look at this look at them
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
We're in orbit. She's not okay. I'm not okay. I'm going to read Listener Tale. Was my dog possessed? Yes. Maybe the theme is dogs. The answer is yes. The theme is fur babies. I literally picked this Listener Tale because you are so gorge and so is your partner and so are your dogs. I showed it to you already. Oh, that picture? Yeah. I was like, wow. And I was like, pick that.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I don't know why we went there, but it felt right. We tried a transatlantic thing, I think, almost. It's like when we did the bob-haired bandit and I tried so hard to be transatlanticism and I just wasn't. Transatlanticism. You know, Death Cab for Cutie. We did a whole thing. Yeah. You know what? There's a, before TikTok goes away, we might as well start with just nonsense. Insert a wah, wah, wah.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And then I said I want to look like you in my next life. It's true. She did. All right. So this Listener Tale, I think I can say your name. So it's hot mess pooches and it says, hey, ladies, I fucking love y'all. I fucking love you. This is long as fuck. Some of it's ADHD ramble, but oh, well, cool. We just did that for about 42 minutes.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Tale number one. And you're still here. I did the double space large font put a pho because I'm old and did not wear my glasses while typing this because that would have been the smart thing to do.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I've attached a story about the time I think my dog was possessed with a side story about how my uncle was not the Circleville letter writer and how I almost got married in the Rampert Street murder house. My life is fucking weird. Feel free to use my first name. My last name may sound familiar. And the first name is Natalie. Oh, there it is. I was like, I literally went like this.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I was like, do it. Natalie. I like, what's the, oh, is it Sue Ann? Jo Ann.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I can't do it because I'll start coughing forever. I know it hurts a little bit. All right. My name is Natalie. Feel free to use my name and any other names in my story. Will do Natalie.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh, man. I don't remember exactly when I started listening to you because what the fuck is time anymore? But I will say. Agreed. You two have kept me company as I transported rescue dogs all over the country for the last few years. Oh, my goodness. Your podcast has helped me keep my eyes peeled as I travel thousands of miles, often only accompanied by dogs.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
You two have taught me a ton of lessons that have probably saved my ass. Fresh air is for dead people. Hell yeah. And have helped validate my true disdain for humans. Love that. That's what we're here for. That is what we're here for. I've been meaning to. People are good at people and you should know that. Yeah. Sometimes they people good. Most of the time they people bad.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
They people good so they people bad. And that's why we disdain them. Exactly. I like using disdain as a verb. I like it. All right. I've been meaning to write for a while but as the director of a non-profit dog rescue. Bitch, can you get any cooler? I hope you mention what it is because I'll say it. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Anytime I would sit down and start typing, I would give into exhaustion and find myself falling asleep at my keyboard. I understand that. A recent car accident, I'm sorry, finally forced me to slow down and gave me the time to write. To tell you how long I've been trying to get a listener tilt into you, the case I was going to write to you about originally was actually covered in 2022, episode 328.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Whoa. The Circleville Letter Writer. That was one of my favorite episodes to do. That's a wild one. That's a really interesting case. This case is what sparked my interest in true crime. Why, you may ask? Why? All right. I looked it up and I think it's Fresh Hour. So Paul Fresh Hour was my uncle. Some of my very first memories include visiting him in prison when I was just a young man. Whoa.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
When the Unsolved Mysteries episode about the case came out, my dad sat me down and we watched together. My family didn't talk about the case very often, but none of us believed that my uncle Paul was capable of attempted murder. You remember that? Yeah. He ended up getting put away in prison for like 10 years. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
damn and that's your uncle and i wasn't so sure about that either yeah he was actually the person this man would have given you the shirt off his back and was the first to ask how many dog how my dogs were at my family gatherings when he was found unresponsive in his car after the heart attack that eventually took his life his trusty toy poodle tommy was by his side Oh, Tommy.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
What? That was just like felt like an intrusive thought. You were like, I want a poodle. Kind of. My dad. Must have poodle.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Before TikTok goes away, there's this comedian on there. Her name is Carissa. And I want to find her real, her full name, Carissa. Her whole act is she's like this, something darling is her name. I love that. And she does this like, she does crowd work in a transatlantic accent in full like gown. Oh, I'm into that. And she's just like, What's your name, darling? Oh, that was really good.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh, my God. My dad was one of seven children, and my Uncle Paul was my favorite after my dad. I truly believe Karen Sue, his ex-wife, set him up. Paul served 10 years in prison to protect his son, who was roped into the setup by his mom. Yes, Paul was absolutely the kind of person who would give up his own freedom for those he loved.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Unfortunately, Karen Sue passed away last month and has taken her secret to the grave. Oh, man. But that's not what this listener tale is about, so I'm going to give you a short backstory without rambling, but I'm not going to make any promises because ADHD. I feel that. I grew up going to my dad's house in Columbus, Ohio, and my mom's house just outside of Houston, Texas.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
For those of you who do not know, New Orleans is a mere five hours from Houston if your mom drives like a bat out of hell. That's crazy. I know. I didn't realize that. Geography. Geography. I was going to say golgraphy. Golgraphy. Back in 2002. Back in 2002, I was a pretty angsty teen. Spoiler alert. I am now a full-fledged misanthropic elder golf. Oh, everything you're saying, I'm just like, yep.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Yeah. As soon as I read this, I said, you speak to like me in a certain way, but you really speak to Elena. When you just said 2002, you were just an angsty teen. I'm like, yep. Yeah. Same girl. Five. Yeah, it sounds like a thunderstorm. Yeah, you're 15. You can hear it. Cool. Guys, I'm hungry. She hungry. I'm hungry for your tails.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
All right, so misanthropic elder goth and learned that my favorite musician lived close enough to talk my alcoholic mother into weekend trips to the Crescent City. Hmm. She would drink and gamble while I would roam the streets with friends, hoping to run into the dark lord of industrial music himself. Do you know who that is? The Trent Reznor? Is that, he's Nin, right? Yeah, he's Nin.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I just, I don't know, I'm just, the dark lord of industrial music just makes me think of Trent Reznor. Yeah, I could see that. But am I right? I don't think it ends up saying. Oh. The city immediately owned a piece of my soul. If you have never been to Nolans, it's not like any other city you will ever visit.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I could go on and on about the food, the jazz, the drinks, the art, the history, the best bar down the alleyway. You'll miss if you blink the tarot card readers in Jackson Square or the speakeasy that the vampire sent you to above the unassuming Bourbon Street Bar. That sounds fucking awesome. Yeah, it does.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
It's almost like an alternate universe, and if you are sensitive, the energy will keep you coming back. It's like a drug if you're a weirdo who has never felt like you have had a home anywhere else. Aw, I love that. Beautifully said, but made me sad. That really is really... But you know what? You got knowledge. I got knowledge.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
As an adult, I make any excuse to visit and will often wrap up my dog transport trips with a stop in my favorite city to decompress. That is. One of the strangest sights I have ever seen was the French Quarter... Yes. Yeah. One of the strangest sights I've ever seen was the French Quarter late spring 2020. My boyfriend at the time had never been to New Orleans.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And so I thought we would stop on our way back to Texas from the Midwest. It was a literal ghost town. Plenty of souls, but very few were living. Ooh. I like that. You're like very poetic. You are very poetic. Oh. Okay. And he will probably shit his pants if he hears y'all tell this story. Hell yeah, Jeff. Mostly because that's his name. That's a great reason to call him that. It is.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
It's the perfect reason. We found an amazing deal on a dog-friendly historic hotel right in the French Quarter, so we decided to treat ourselves after another 2,000-mile trip moving dogs to homes and partner rescues Midwest. That's amazing. I know. I always travel with a few of my own personal dogs because I have separation anxiety, but
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
So a long walk around the French Quarter was the first thing we did. This is where I mentioned that I'm also a professional dog trainer and behavior specialist. My dogs have traveled with me all over the country and are used to staying in hotels. After a long walk around the French Quarter, we checked out. We checked into our hotel, unloaded our bags and set up dog crates in our room.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And she does the whole act like that. That was good. And she's fucking hilarious. So Carissa, go find her. Go find her and find out where she goes. I'm going to find her on there while we continue so I can shout her out. I'm not fully convinced that TikTok's going anywhere. I don't think anybody really is. And if it is, like I'll be like a little bit sad for probably like two days.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
We made plans to have dinner and join a haunted history walking tour. I want to do that so bad. That sounds I want to do that right now. Let's book a trip. Let's go. Jeff and I, Jeff, his real name, and I got the dog settled and walked out the hotel room to head to dinner. I always wait outside the hotel room door to listen for my dogs to settle. But this evening, that didn't happen. Atticus.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I love that. Atticus. I love that. Wait until you hear the next name. My most behaved deaf boy was scratching at the door and his deaf adopted sister, Dita Von Flees. Atticus and Dita Von Flees. Dita Von Flees is the best dog name in the history of dog names. Hands down. Like nobody else name your dog again. That beats Kevin. Way better than Kevin. That beats Kevin. Valentina. Kevin. The best.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Dita Von Flees. But Dita Von Flees was crying in her crate. Oh, no. We figured they just hadn't had enough time out after a long trip and decided to take them to dinner and on the walking tour with us. I'm attaching a photo of myself with the three dogs who were with us on the trip. Lilith, Dita, and Atticus. And Lilith. My tattoo's name is Lois. Shut up.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Now, an evening of perusing the French Quarter in August may seem like a lot for most dogs, but these are young Dalmatians, and they're fucking adorable. Oh my god, they're stupid cute. They were literally bred for running miles upon miles. We had dinner outside next to Jackson Square, which is now full of artists, street performers, and psychics, but was once where the city held their executions.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I scanned the square for my favorite tarot card reader, but I didn't see her. I'd been drawn to her several years prior because of the wolves on her altar cloths.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
My readings would often end with a discussion about our dogs, and something she had said has stuck with me. Dogs with, I think it's heterochromia, I think? It's the eye thing. Two different colored eyes can see the living and the dead. Oh, I fucking love that. It is. For some reason, it gives me like Game of Thrones, White Walkers vibes.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Like, oh, I fucking love that idea. Yeah. Specifically, they can see the living with their dark eye and the dead with their light eye, which I think is so fucking cool. I'm obsessed with that idea. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Well, on this trip, we didn't have any dogs with heterochromia, but Dita's eyes are both ice blue. And I wanted to see what she would say about that.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Which, that's probably, like, rare for a Dalmatian. Yeah, I would think so. Usually they have dark eyes, right?
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Yeah. We finished our dinner and spent the rest of our evenings on a haunted history tour through the French Quarter. There were locations where the dogs seemed to be bothered by something, and they definitely tried pulling us across the street upon approaching the LaLaurie Mansion. But otherwise, it was a normal long walk.
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We went back to the hotel and settled for the night as we were all finally exhausted. Then, at 3am, Jeff woke me up, telling me he thinks Dita's having a seizure. I come, launch myself out of bed, and see her crate rocking back and forth. He throws open the door and tries to grab her. Holy shit. Aww. Aww. She launched herself across the room one more time and attempted to climb up the curtains.
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And then I'll be like, wow, look at all this stuff I completed in my free time. Yeah.
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She was in such a frenzy, I feared that she would hit the glass with such force that she would yeet herself out the window and down three stories to, I think, DeCowder Street? Holy shit. After what seemed like a half hour, Dita finally exhausted herself and retreated back into her crate. Jeff and I thought for sure we would be asked to leave the hotel, but no knock came or call.
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The next morning when we checked out, no one mentioned a thing. Dita had never had an episode like this before, and four years later she has not had another one like it, nor have I seen anything like it with any other dog. Was my dog possessed? Could she see the dead? Or is she just a nutty Dalmatian? I can go with possessed. I think possessed.
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It eats up a lot of my time. It's true. So I don't think it's that bad of a thing in that scenario. But I do feel bad for like creators who have made like a living on there. Well, that's the thing. It's been around for how many years? And it's like when you've made a living off of this, it's like your actual job. Yeah. Like our girl, Isabel. Oh, our girl, Isabel.
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Especially the fact that they were kind of like acting strange while you were on the walking tour and like out of character. I tried doing research on the hotel we stayed at, but I didn't find anything particularly damning. The whole French Quarter is haunted if you ask me. Yeah.
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And if you don't believe in that sort of thing, there are plenty of vampires, witches, and voodoo practitioners who may tickle your fancy there instead. That's so fucking cool. Side note, many years ago I was engaged, like any good goth, I planned to get married in New Orleans. Yeah.
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I found a little museum on Rampart Street where we could have a small ceremony and celebration. My ex-fiance's mom was outraged when she found out that I had put the deposit down on the Rampart Street murder house, the Zach and Addie story. Oh my goodness. Yeah.
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I didn't realize I would have been getting dressed for my wedding in the same space where Zach had dismembered his girlfriend Addie before jumping to his death. I didn't make the connection until after enduring her outrage. Two weeks prior to the wedding on Friday, October 13th, my father had a massive stroke, causing us to call off the wedding.
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Long story short, had I gone through my wedding, I don't think I would be here today. I have absolute chills. I hadn't read that part earlier. I just read the dog part. Wow. Whoa. Wow. Holy shit. Some kind of an intervention happened.
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I don't know what happened there, but damn. That's crazy. I'm glad that you're here. Yeah. And I'm sorry that you had to. And I'm glad that that didn't happen. And I'm sorry that you had to endure what you did. Yeah. Holy shit. I'm adding a better pic of Dita Von Fleas and some more of my dogs as well as a pic of the love of my life, Salem. That's who that is in the picture. Stop.
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And you guys together are absolutely gorgeous. Literally a work of art. I picked the tail because I said I literally want to look like this woman in my next life. She literally did. Like, what? Like, she did. Hand to whoever. Me on her. I thought you were talking about like a judge or something.
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I don't understand it because, you know, you're all excited and stuff. I thought you guys would appreciate that my future husband named himself after a sassy black cat, not the town or the witch trial.
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Obsessed. I'm obsessed. Anywho, keep it weird. We will and we know that you will. That's fucking awesome. Even, like, on an off day, she looks like this. You're absurdly beautiful and just, like, radiate nice, good energy. You're a work of art. And you and Salem are just, like, the cutest couple I've ever seen in my life. Oh, my God. You guys are just stupid gorgeous.
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Thank you so much for having me. All in one place and all on your terms. You can connect major social and multimedia accounts to your website in a few clicks as icons, direct links, or embedded feeds, your choice. You build visitor trust while updating content only where you need it, extending your brand's footprint.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Wait, I gotta show you the picture of Dita. Oh, Deedah. Look at her eyes.
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She does have beautiful ice blue eyes. They're like almost white.
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They're gorgeous. Crazy. All right. Let's see. Should I do creepy doll listener tale?
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So this one's called creepy doll listener's tale. This one's so good. Hi, weirdos. My name is Angelica. Yes, like the Rugrats, you can use my name. If you decide to pick this tale to read on the podcast, I will simply pass away. R.I.P. Wow. That's, like, a normal thing to say to that, but, like, I feel like we did the same inflection, too. Yeah, we did. Get out of my head. Damn.
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Annalee. Tyler. Michaela. What am I going to do when I can't go to Patto? I'm going to be so sad when I can't go to Patto. It's Carissa Hendricks, by the way.
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I've been a fan for about a year, and the first episodes I listened to were your Albert Fish ones. What a way to start. Babe, you stuck around after that?
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Damn. For real. Damn. I almost left after that. I tried, and they said, you're contracted. They said no. We both said, okay, that was it. I listened to it at the gym and was cackling at all your jokes so hard that my husband stopped his workout and wanted to know what I was listening to. When I told him this podcast about Albert Fish, he looked horrified. He said, qual?
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When I reassured him it was funny, not because of what he did, but because of your guy's absolute roast of this man. We do be good at that. He understood and became interested in the podcast. Side note, I'm not a huge true crime junkie since I already know how horrendous people can be and it makes me sad. Same. Shout out to my fellow social workers.
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Oh, yeah, you definitely know how horrible people can be. But I did take a serial killers course in Creek Community College and learned a lot about them. It was interesting to say the least. However, I'm more impressed with y'all's interpretations and retellings. I've learned so much that I think I may have to scrub my brain clean and start fresh, but like in a good way because I love you.
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Yeah, I'll shut the fuck up now, but please know I absolutely adore you both and thank you for always making me laugh and for keeping it weird. This year has been a rough one and I'm only 25. And what year was this? 25 was one of my worst years. Oh, it's 2024. So yeah, it was a shitty year. Yeah. And I'm only 25. Seriously, if things keep on this trajectory, I'm not sure I'll make it very far.
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You will. Yeah, this is going to be a better year. Getting your license is like super exciting and then getting your first car and all that. What's not like the most exciting part of all of that is insurance. I remember being like, where do I even start? Why are there 452 insurance companies? Which one actually cares about me? I'm so stressed.
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carissa hendrix let me see go find her and she's so pretty she just like roasts people like in the but but in like the most classy way that's my dream job i love her we kind of do that actually she's really funny so just go find her anywhere i don't know find that girl find that girl carissa hendrix um but yeah i don't know we just went with a 20s theme today yeah just kind of i don't even know whose idea this was maybe it was mike mikey was this your idea
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Well, I wish that when I was 16 years old, Insurify was an insurance comparison site that I had known about. But now it is. Insurify is an insurance comparison site. And it has dozens of top insurers compete for your business, which drives the prices down. Insurify lets you compare real-time quotes from dozens of top insurers, including the names that you know and that you trust.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
The entire Insurify process is handled completely online. Amazing. That means no annoying phone calls, no ridiculous fees, no spam ever. Back in my day, I had to call so many people. But get this. With Insurify, you can get insurance coverage in as little as 10 minutes. Do you understand how groundbreaking that is?
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Get to Insurify.com to compare car insurance quotes in real time and start saving today. That's I-N-S-U-R-I-F-Y dot com. Insurify dot com. Average potential savings based on initial quotes received by 183,234 customers seeking insurance through Insurify. Actual savings may vary depending on state of residence, individual circumstances, coverage selections, and insurance provider.
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Do things typically get better or worse? But for reals, listening to you guys helps distract me from the fuckery that is life. I am currently unemployed. Shout out to having a mentee bee. And writing this story has filled up a lot of my time. And for that, I am grateful for the opportunity, even if it is not selected. Oh, girl.
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And Elena broke. I literally broke while saying it. She said selected. Sorry for any typos. Why did I laugh like that?
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Marley and Marley. That's a banger. I didn't like the Muppets for a long time. Come at me, bro. Confession time.
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i know my mother-in-law was really pissed about it but we watched the uh what's up at christmas carol i was so against watching it for a long time but it's drew's favorite movie so i was like i have to it's slaps michael caine had no business going as hard as he goes in that he didn't he is he's top notch yeah no that's a good movie yeah i can awesome i would i feel um remiss yeah right as you should yeah
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Anyway, though, back to your story. 25 sucked balls. Yeah. 24 and 25 were fucking shit. It's tough. 26 got better because I got engaged. And then 27 and 28 have been fun. So I think the closer that I think 25 is like a hard point in life because you're like in the middle. And I think friends get weird at that point in time.
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And I think the closer you get to 30. Yeah. When you get into your 30s, I feel like it starts being awesome. Coasting. Yeah. Like I feel like I the closer I got to 30.
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you figure it out and then i had my my twins at 30 yeah so it was like the beginning of like awesomeness yeah i think yeah i think the the closer you get to like making your own family or like even like you know getting married or anything like that and like choosing your own space yeah it's you get happier to me my 20s are overrated yeah i think they are to me in my opinion maybe your 20s are awesome and like for that i mean good for you i haven't heard anyone ever say that no i've heard everybody be like fuck my 20s
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There it is. It was our idea. Speaking of like actual regular episodes, this is an actual episode, but it's Listener Tales. So we are going to put out Rodney Part 2, Rodney Alcala Part 2 on Monday. If you're watching this, it's probably like Thursday or like this came out on a Thursday. So we just... Wanted to have like a little breather after part one. Quick little palate cleanser.
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I think your 20s are just like a redo of your teens, but like with a little more information. Yeah. And then your 30s are like, wow, we got to we got to reel it in. We got to like overhaul this whole thing.
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So it's going to be good. Yeah. So attached is a double space put a foot and word document and times new Roman size 14 font documenting the time my dad found old dolls hidden inside of a wall. Damn. As in to the windows to the walls. I have attached photos as well for viewing pleasure. I'm breaking again. Sorry in advance if they give you the creeps. They seem to have that effect on people.
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I hope it's not too long and not too boring. Keep it weird. And maybe don't look at these photos after dark. Much love, Angelica. Yeah. No, it brings viewing displeasure, but like in a fun way. Yeah. Also, the name of this listener tale is fucking top notch. To the walls. To the sweat drip down my dolls. It is to the windows, to the walls, to the sweat drip down my dolls. Love it. You're an icon.
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A little background may be helpful before we get into the story. My father does home improvement and often has to demo houses. He gets to tear down walls, break shit, and have a good time doing it. That would also be a fun job. I literally paid to do that once. Yeah, it's called a rage room. Hell yeah, and I want to do it again. We should.
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During this process, sometimes he gets lucky and finds treasures. Let me tell you, rich people love to throw away perfectly good shit all the time. We got a $3,000 new stove for our home because said rich people wanted to throw it in a dumpster. Damn. Why the fuck are you throwing out a perfectly good fucking stove? Yeah, donate that shit.
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Anyway, my dad has found some great things along the way and usually passes these things to me. He's given me books, CDs, records, antiques, and housewares. On one occasion, he brought home 10 trash bags full of vintage clothing, including one deceased woman's wedding dress and her mother's wedding dress from the 1920s. Huh? That's why I picked this one. Was it mine?
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it wasn't I'm not from the 1920s it's like thrifting but I don't need to do any work or spend any money While my dad has many interesting stories and has one of the most chaotic lives I know, this story is not really about him, although he would love it if it were. He would fill up an entire episode of Listener Tales just telling you about the past few years of his life.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
But alas, this is a story about the time my dad found a case of dolls inside of a wall.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
My dad was demoing a house somewhere in Baltimore. It had already been vacated. We know nothing of the previous owners. And the new owners had asked my dad to break down a few walls for a new project. Piece of cake. My dad does this all the time. As he's doing his thing, probably while listening to Bruce Springsteen, he could see something hidden, hiding inside the wall.
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My dad has seen a lot of shit in his day, but nothing like this. He starts to rip away the wall, and what he found shook him. It's a handmade case with a plexiglass front with some tiny, creepy-ass looking dolls inside. Each doll was zip-tied to a wooden board with holes in it. Why? Of attached photos.
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why she has attached isn't that the scariest shit you've ever seen why are they they're zip tied like like by the neck yeah yeah another weirder shit you ever i don't like it i don't love it and they're all different little creepy dolls like some of our baby dolls yeah wait till you find out what they are I don't like these at all. Spooky ooky ooky. Holy shit. He just found that on a wall.
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Yeah, we're going to get into some gnarly shit in parts two and three. So this is like your little send off into that, which is...
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Yeah, there's a lot going on there. I mean, they're kind of cute in a creepy way, right? No.
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I sat in the living room with him as he recounted his tale. He was sure that they were haunted because why else were they buried in someone's wall? That's the thing. I thought they were a little creepy, but overall endearing. And I was more so curious of the origins of the dolls. Me too. I'm curious of the origins. I don't find them endearing, though.
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I also found it interesting they were zip-tied by their necks to the board. Same. To keep them there for viewing or to contain them from committing doll acts of evil, we will never know. I think the latter. Yeah, they've been zip-tied and secured behind the plexiglass for as long as I have had them.
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And I would be lying if I said I was not at least a little bit scared of the idea of releasing them from their habitat. In fear that maybe the case has been blessed or whatever, and opening it would unleash some little doll demons, just like in the movies. And I'm not about to be the dumb bitch who dies from her mistake. Good for you, man. See?
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if they aren't right if they do decide to one day become haunted i like that they like they'll just be like dormant and then they'll just become haunted someday they reserve that right yeah oh thank you y'all will absolutely be the first to know if i am still alive to tell the tale hell yeah brother thank you hell yeah that's an honor that's an honor it is i also want to share that we moved recently and the movers refused to move them to our new home they were a little creeped out by them that's actually hilarious i wish i was a fly on the wall for that conversation
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Nice. Yeah. Yeah. We love it. Yeah. I picked the tails today. They are, there's like sort of a theme, I guess. I feel like there's a theme, but without a theme.
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Like, they just go in the other room and they're like, no, dude, I'm not moving that.
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And the other one's like, I'm not touching it either. I'm not doing that. This is kind of part of our job. Like, what are we supposed to tell them? And then they just go to you. We're supposed to be grown adults. Why are we touching the dolls? I'm not touching the dolls. Like, I can hear it in my head. I guess so. Like, I can hear it.
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Now, on my search to understand more, I came across a group on Facebook that is specifically for dolls and doll collecting. Oh, shit. I just want to say that those guys are on it and very good at what they do. Shout out to that group. Hey, group. Hey, group. As soon as I posted the dolls, people went crazy, and I had multiple offers in my inbox.
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Apparently, these things are worth something besides just nightmares. From what I could gather, the dolls inside are considered penny dolls. During World War II, soldiers would buy them for their children and bring them home to the U.S. They are rare and very sought after by doll lovers and collectors. The dolls likely have real human hair. No, thank you.
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I don't want to know where they got the hair and hope to never find out given what was going on in the world during that time. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, no, thank you. You can tell by looking at them that someone took great care to make the dolls as detailed as possible.
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Maybe the person who, I don't know, hid them in the walls, still very sus, knew they were valuable and wanted to preserve them and keep them away from the sunlight. Or maybe they were fucking terrified of them. Yeah. But I don't, if I was so scared of something, I don't think I'd put it in my wall. No. So it can just like breed contempt for me in there? I don't want that. Breed contempt.
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The vibes are right. I looked for like, I searched the word Gatsby. I searched the creepy doll and speakeasy. I like that.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I don't want that. You are a writer. I do not want that. Maybe the original owner tried to get rid of them, but each time they threw them away, they reappeared on the person's doorstep like that creepy Ouija board in that one listener's tale.
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I think that's what happened. So they put them in the wall. I'm not sure what the doll's origin story is, but I think we can all agree that hiding them in your wall is a bit strange. I think it's funny. I think it's kind of funny. I think it's a practical joke. I think they were blessed because they were haunted and probably ruining the original owner's life.
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And they were told to put it in the wall so that they would never be found.
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probably and disturbed and now they've been disturbed i feel like you if you didn't want them to be disturbed though you'd like bury them in the backyard but that's hard because there's a lot of them and it's big putting them in a wall is just like putting something in a wall is like tough though you gotta like cut the wall well that's the other thing that's a lot that's why a practical joke that's pretty intense practice oh i will commit to a practical i mean samesies but how many people will do that
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poll you know yeah let's see would you would you open your wall as a practical joke i just thought of jasper on tiktok when she's like who wants buffalo chicken wings raise your hand what was the first one if you want was it mozzarella stick i think it was you want mozzarella raise your hand buffalo chicken fingers My dad gave these dolls to me when I was around 18 and I'm 25 now.
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I live with my husband, cat, and dog Luna. Pictures attached. I heard you guys were into that kind of thing.
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We love animals. The dolls hang out in my basement because my husband is thoroughly freaked out by them, despite my attempts to reassure him. I would love to display them somewhere as a conversation piece, but that's unlikely to ever happen. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to make them into a coffee table with the plexiglass being the top of it. That's a conversation.
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It's two things. It's such a good idea, and it's also something that a weird couple would propose to do on flea market flips. Yes. Absolutely. Side note, I used to be super afraid of dolls when I was younger. I blame this on my aunt, who decided to place her super realistic toddler doll in her hallway with a knife in its hand when I was a child. Yeah, that's her fault. That's her fault.
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And even if they're not, it makes sense. Yeah. Also, I want to wear these gloves every day. As you should. Also, I had something really cool happen before this and I'm having trouble concentrating and I can't say what it is yet.
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We'll fight her if you want. That's her fault. We can fight her. Yeah. A real knife from her kitchen. She got a kick out of that. Thankfully, I'm now a huge horror fan and love everything spooky and scary. And funny enough, I fucking love dolls now. Really? The only thing that can truly terrify me are giants.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And I am betting and pray whoever will fucking listen to whoever will fucking listen that they are not real. I also don't like giant things. You don't. She doesn't like giants. You don't like giant things. Or giants. Like, I don't want like, like, I mean, like, you know, those ogres sort of. Yeah. Yeah. Like the earth giants from Frozen. That would scare the shit out of me. Yeah.
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That would be fucked up. I don't like that at all. Well, they could just like squish you. Yeah. I don't like it. I can pretty much handle anything scary. But when it comes to giants, a line is crossed. And if they ever do turn out to be real, I will exit this life before things get too spicy. Just kidding, just kidding, just kidding. I like how niche that is.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Anyway, I will keep these dolls probably forever. All jokes aside, the history and craftsmanship are incredible. I know I sound like a huge weirdo, but hey, we all have our things. You're not weird. Now that I've given you some spookies, I need to give you some giggles. I also included a photo of my Princess Diana rip doll that my mother got me for a few years ago.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I was convinced for years that I was related to her, that she would rescue me to be a princess with her. I love that for you. Then I found out that she was very dead and that I was not a princess. Anyways, my husband has convinced me that this is not. It's not Princess Diana. It's Owen Wilson wearing a dress. He's not wrong. You might be right. He might be right. Can I get a wow?
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
wow is that good randomly the other night we were at a hotel and i woke up at 3 a.m to owen wilson on the tv and i was like what the fuck is this and then i saw j-lo and i was like am i what hello they were in like a weird movie together recently really yeah she's like a pop star and she's like dating some i think she's dating bad bunny i think i saw clips of this and it looked insane i woke up at 3 a.m and i was just like
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it is it's really cool i just had to say that we can't say too much because i feel i give things away so easily like with my face and like even like one i'll say one thing and people are like i know exactly what you're saying and i'm like i was really trying to be trying to be undercover there trying to be coy i could never be a narc no or well i guess maybe maybe i'd be a good narc you just wouldn't be a good undercover like you couldn't be like an informant
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That's a fever dream, is what that is. I watched like 15 minutes of it. Oh my god, you showed me little Luna, aka Luna Tuna. Luna Tuna! I'm obsessed with Luna Tuna. Aw, you guys are cute. You guys are adorable. Give me Luna Tuna. Yeah. Immediately. Wait, also, you have to put those in your wall when the time is nigh. Luna Tuna?
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i'm just kidding no the dolls yes but the dolls in your wall like if you know you're gonna make an exit from the coil when you're like your walls hit my microphone not anytime soon but like when you know you're gonna when when you're like 98 yeah like when you feel like you're about to shuffle off this mortal coil just shove them in your walls just do a quick home project yeah just call a quick contractor but do it early just call them up and say
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I need you to hide these dolls in my walls. I found these dolls in a wall when my dad did when I was a girl. And... Develop an accent. Okay. Before you do this. Workshop it, okay? Yeah, you'll get there. You got it. You have time. Okay. Luna Tuna for life. Luna Tuna. Luna Tuna. I don't know why I sang it, but I did. You sing lots of things. I like it. It's true, I do. It's true, I do. It's true.
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That sounds like a Nana Bob song. The rewatcher. Go listen to the rewatcher. Let me take a drink of my water. I think we could probably finish on this. This one is Listener Tales. Predicting death is my sixth sense. Oh, fuck yeah. Let's go. Yeah. It says, hi, Deb Deb. Oh, you too, Ash and Elena. Oh, hey. I love you, weirdos, and hope you read this on the pod. Well, here we are.
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It is a terrifying yet interesting experience, and I haven't heard a listener tell like it, so I hope it stands out. To sweeten the deal, there's a picture of a puppy and a baby. You guys know. You guys just know. Included is a 14-point double-spaced pot of fur. And this is actually my second time submitting because I sent it to the wrong email. I really want to know who got that email.
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I also want to know that. Reading time is approximately 15 minutes and 15 seconds, but not unlike two weirdos I know, I stumble on words a lot. Damn. Yeah, it do be us. And this is from Millie. Millie!
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the biggest and most vivacious hello to ash elena and deb deb my name vivacious vivacious my name is millie use it bitch i will millie attached a photo of moi simply because when i read i love i always love a face for context she's gorgeous so pretty you that that face card girl fuck it up fuck it up damn the mug never declined millie I know what you're thinking.
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Are you a 5'11 thick indigenous woman with a bodacious booty? That's literally what I was thinking. Yes, I am. Thank you for answering that. It's giving everything. It's giving all the things I need. I love it. I'm a relatively new listener. My mouth just made a gross noise, so I'm going to say that again. I am a relatively new listener who started her morbid journey in August of 2022.
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Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
However, I'm quickly catching up to all of the episodes. I started at the most recent and I'm working my way backwards, which is apparently not what the normal is. But you know what it is? It's what we suggest. And we actually suggest that you stop at a certain point and never listen to the early ones. Yes. In fact, we were talking about this the other day. That's actually really funny. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
That we were like, whenever when somebody says they're new to the pod, we're like, are you starting from the beginning? Because we're like, are you still here? Go from newest to oldest so you can appreciate us later. I still grow off on a tangent, obviously, but the tangents that my ass would go off on, it was a different time. I think I was like, was I like 22 when we started this?
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Yeah, I was so fucking annoying. You were young and... I'm still pretty annoying, but I own it. I was annoying then, too. Yeah, I'm still annoying. Let's be annoying together. Forever. Forever. Ooh, that was a good one. It was. Mm-hmm. We didn't cheers. Never mind. I was going to say, did we make eye contact? But we did. But we did. We went, why did I forget instantly? Are you a witch?
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Are you a witch? Are you a witch? Are you a wizard, Harry? Oh, God. Oh, God. We were like, we don't go on tangents anymore.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
We never go on tangents. Everyone's like, this has been six hours long.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
All right, back to Millie's tale. Millie! Millie! We're kind of hungry, I think. We are. I have tacos waiting for me. I have like a slaw that I made. A slaw. A slaw. With some rotis chick.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
No. No. Oh my god. I think about that a lot. I think about that a lot. When we do cases where somebody wears a wire, I'm like, I could never. First of all, my IBS could not. I would just shit myself instantly. My IBS could never. My IBS could not handle that. And neither could my delicate psyche. Because we're one step away from a full break. I just laugh.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
So work your way backwards and stop at a certain point. However, I'm the farthest. I'm the farthest. In the fjord. I'm in the fjord. Don't start with the fjord, because then I'll go on a tangent to Conan. Uh-oh. He has a song. However, I'm the farthest thing away from normal, so it's incredibly fitting. I'm an English major, so if there are any grammatical errors, feel free to call my ass out.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I know you two love the art of making others defecate themselves, so please use her full name because she will take a monstrous giddy dump in her jeans. Ashley Little. Ashley just took a dump. This is her photo. This is her photo. Aw, Ashley, you're adorable. She's grudge. She's big grudge. Yeah. Okay, gushing time. I absolutely adore you two. I adore you. And I hate people, so that says a lot.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh my god, you are my people. and we hate people too yeah you've made your way into being a daily part of my life and when i'm driving to and from work and listen to you on my hour-long commute it feels like i have the two coolest bitches behind me in the back seat thank you who are constantly almost responsible for my untimely demise as i find myself repeatedly swerving after a laughing fit
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Nor, nor. One time you made me laugh so hard when talking about dick cheese that I snotted all over myself and almost died running off the road trying to find a Kleenex. Don't do that, you two say. But if my end includes snot running down my face and tears in my eyes from hysterical laughter about dick cheese, that sounds like a good way to go. Who are we? Crazy. Who are we?
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Segwaying to the tale with death. This is about a few yet far too many times that I have predicted death. This is cray. By the way, I'm already sporting doo-doo drawers and I don't even know if you read this on the pod yet. So if I hear you reading this, then my pants are already off and on fire. I love it. I live in a very rural town in New Brunswick, Canada.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I'm talking I graduated with 12 people rural. Holy shit. I thought other people's schools were small. However, to begin this story, we set the scene in the big city of Brampton, Ontario. Brampton is about a half hour from Toronto and is way too big for my liking. I grace the lives of my parents by making my glorious entrance into this hellhole we call the world on April 4th, 2000.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
That's right, Ash. I'm an Aries sun and moon and my rising is Capricorn. I see you, Elena. Oh, hell yeah. Double Aries. You are fiery as fuck. I'm married an Aries. And Capricorn, even though Capricorn is an earth sign, I feel like they're like pretty, pretty scrappy. Yeah. You're probably scrappy. Yeah, you're scrappy as fuck. And I love that about you.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Any time I'm feeling any type of way, I start laughing or smiling. So I'd be so shitty. Remember the time that I was, I won't say who it is, but remember the time we had to go to a funeral together and we couldn't stop laughing? Because I just can't handle emotions. No, nothing was funny. It was actually very sad. But we were sat together in a church pew, if you can fucking picture that.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I get along really well with Aries and Capricorn. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Mom and dad, John and Elena. Yeah. So make your own most likely accurate assumptions. I did. We did. My parents divorced a few years after my birth, just in 2004. But don't be sorry. It was for the best. This is hilarious. My dad found himself in the awkward situation of accidentally falling into women's vajinas.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And my mother was tired of his quote unquote slip ups. Fast forward to 2006. That's a great way to describe that. I love that. That's somebody who has healed. Yeah, you've healed. Fast forward to 2006. I'm six years old and my dad's living in Brampton with another woman who I'm glad to say he's no longer with. She was a very angry Italian woman who was a bit hard on the noggin.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Or maybe she wasn't angry and she just spoke in a perpetual scream. I'm not really sure. That's a lot. I was playing with Polly Pockets alone in my room, Ash gets it, when I had a feeling. It made me stop and pause with every strand of hair on my little body standing straight in the air as if I were hanging upside down.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
This feeling and the facial expression I would have worn is comparable, I don't know why I said it like that, comparable to someone who horrifically realized that their fart had not in fact been a fart. Did you get that? They are. That's prison, Mike. I don't watch The Office. Don't yell at me. You gotta watch it, man. Maybe. Prison Mike.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I didn't have a vision, more like an awareness, that my great-grandfather, who was in perfect health, was going to die. I walked around with this weight for the entire day, asking- A six-year-old? Yeah. That's like one of your babes. Asking my dad if he had been talking to Grandpa. He said no, that he hadn't that day, but he just spoke with him the week before, and he asked why I was wondering.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
"'No reason,' I replied, kicking my feet together and avoiding eye contact. "'I was just wondering.'" This feeling, I remember, was not one I wanted to share, and it kept me up most of the night. I laid in bed until sleep found me in the early hours of the morning, and I arose to my dad standing at my door, looking forlorn and also suspicious. Grandpa passed away last night, he said hesitantly.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
His tone was a mix of grief and suspicion. Did this man think my small, fragile, and incapable body could walk a two-hour drive in the middle of the night and somehow unalive my grandfather? Like, come on. Oh, relatable. That makes me sad for you. I know. The memory stuck with me for a while until it began to fade as the years went on. I had forgotten about the feeling and what it felt like.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I resumed my life and paid it no mind until I was 14. I had my laptop going with karaoke songs as I was home alone and aspired to be a famous singer at the time. Hell yeah. Typically speaking, though, in order to be famous, you have to be good at singing, which I was not.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i mean do you it's subjective it's 2025 now yeah you don't really have to be good much anymore think the demon cat from pet cemetery being shook around and then thrown out a wall love that that's the most accurate description of my singing voice even to this day right in the middle of the ear piercing belt of the chorus to rolling in the deep it stopped i stopped god wait i took a vocal class once and it was rolling in the deep and i thought i slayed that shit
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And we just couldn't stop laughing. We couldn't. And my grandpa gave a eulogy and it was so Boston.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And then I got home and I recorded myself and I never went back to voice acting and voice lessons again. I love. I said, teacher Jamie. You said I did not roll. I'm sorry. I said auto tune would never help this. So I stopped. It reminded me of Raven from That's So Raven when she'd get a vision. The same feeling I had ejected from my homunculus? Yeah. Homunculus?
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I'd returned with a vengeance with one major difference, the person it surrounded. This time it was my grandmother on my mom's side, Ruby, who I would later name my daughter after.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
You get the fuck out of here with that kid. I can't. I can't. That's a cute ass kid. I can't. Ruby. I can't. She's so fucking cute. I love her. I know. And look, she's kind of like judging whoever she's looking at. She's like, she's got like that eyebrow action. Her mom is a double Aries. I'm impressed.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Well, grandmother Ruby was the, and I, this reminds me of this lady, Judy, I used to live with who I fucking loved so much. Grandmother Ruby. Yeah. Yeah. She was a kind woman who would always be found drinking Diet Pepsi from a vintage floral glass and watching Judge Judy. Well, she'd have it on the TV, but she'd be talking so much through it that you could not understand what was happening.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Love that. And then she'd look at anyone with her and go, what's happening? Damn overly religious white women. I decided to let it go and hope that I wasn't right. But that night at 3 a.m., my grandmother was taken by ambulance and passed in the hospital. I know. I'm sorry. I went home and looked in the mirror like someone in a movie, not even sure of who I was seeing. I screamed, what the fuck?
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Which was a big deal because I didn't say a single swear word until I was 17. Whoa. And I've progressed so much now that I'm convinced my child will think her name is fuck. I love how you write so hard. The feeling of confusion, dread, and fear enveloped my body like a spiky blanket. I like a spiky blanket. I like them both. I still refuse to share my curse with anyone.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
You know, I freaking loved that guy. But yeah, I can't. Anytime to process an emotion, I laugh or smile.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And again, it went dormant for years to come. 2018 is when it returned yet again. My ex-boyfriend. We ended on good terms. Don't worry.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I love that because we never hear that. I know. Rarely. My ex-boyfriend and I were living in our first apartment. I was in my first year of university, and I was sat at my makeup station one morning, putting on some semblance of a falsified, excited face for the day.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Being in university, I needed all the help I could get with the bags under my eyes and permanent look of depression that encapsulated my face. Then, spoiler alert, it hit. The feeling. Though this time would be slightly different from the previous two. This time, it wasn't someone that was directly related to me. It was my boyfriend's grandfather. The other difference was how quickly it happened.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
The other two times were at least a 12-hour span between the feeling and death. This time, I had the feeling, cooked in it for about five minutes, and then my boyfriend called me. My heart fucking sank. He said, Papa didn't wake up from his sleep this morning. Aww.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And I often have to say, I'm not finding this funny. I am upset. Like, I have to tell people, like, I'm upset, I promise. Yeah, that's your tism too. It is. It's real.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i had to force myself to pretend to act shocked though it was earlier than expected i still knew it was coming is he dead i asked with a fake surprise no i think it's just diabetic coma he'll probably be fine he answered first of all who the fuck calls someone and says so so and so didn't wake up from their sleep just being like casually they're fine though he'll probably be fine like what that's probably fine that's not how you tell someone that also like probably just a diabetic coma it's like oh just that little thing oh you know yeah
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Anyways, I didn't dare tell him what I knew, and I was also hoping that I was going to be wrong this time. His grandfather was a pure and kind soul. He was in his late 80s, still chopping wood, cooking, dancing, and living his life. We'd go over all the time and play skip bow, and he'd get so zoned out we'd have to yell his name 30 times to snap him out of it. Oh, my turn! He'd shout!
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh my god, I love him. That's so sweet. I drove to the hospital to meet with them, and we went to the room he was in. Once the family was rounded up, the doctor came over and broke the news. He had a brain bleed. He said, more forcefully than I would have liked. That happens a lot. Yeah, it's very clinical. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
He's being kept alive by the machines, but once we unhook him, I don't expect him to live long after. I felt helpless. So many loved ones I knew would die, and I could do nothing but sit back and wait. That must be so hard. Yeah, that's tough. Nothing I could have done could have prevented these deaths, yet I was burdened with the knowledge of the inevitable. That's exactly what it is.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
That's a burden. Yeah, it is a burden. These first three death predictions would soon prove themselves to be the easiest that I would have to encounter. I had eventually split from my ex and was living the single life. We were together since I was 14, and I was now 20 and lost. No sense of an identity, an introvert with one friend, and my time was mostly taken up by school and work.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
it's part of that and so i don't it's just so this is the only way i know how to process anything so i'm just gonna like maniacally laugh for okay which this is a good thing yeah it makes sense do you want to go first do you think that will be helpful yeah i'll go first okay okay that's that sounds good dive in because i'm so happy oh gee morbid she's about to dive in everybody
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I felt confused as to the next steps to take. Then a guy messaged me on Facebook. To protect his identity, since his name is incredibly unique, we'll call him Fred. Fred. Fred. It reminds me of, hey, it's Fred. Remember that guy? Yeah. Fred started chatting with me and flirting, but in a kind, genuine, and respectful way. I learned he was from India and he was here for school.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
He was incredibly gifted with humor, intelligence, perseverance, and sheer willpower. He went to the same university as I did and we hit it off right away. However, just as friends as I was not ready for another relationship. We spent time together and I learned how fascinating of a human he was. He was in boarding school in India and was in a gang in his teen years.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
He survived being stabbed and got out of that place in his life. His family also owned a tiger. A tiger. His name was Timothy. Like a whole ass tiger. A tiger named Timothy. Yeah. Holy shit. They rescued and rehabilitated him. How much cooler can he get? Not much. He was always very kind and I enjoyed the time we spent together. We were inseparable friends for a few months.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
When he moved here, he turned his life around, got heavy into the gym, and then excelled even more at academics. He got a moker cycle.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
It's a little bit different than a moker cycle. You ever been on a moker cycle? You know? Thank you for a rattier laugh. It's crazy. He got a motor cycle and would venture around on it all the time. He was also an incredibly talented painter. He cracked jokes that would make me laugh so hard I cried.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
He said all the strange Indian men that have probably messaged you before, and yet I had the charm to get your attention. However, his tale would end like the rest. One day, I was sitting in my room alone, thoughts to myself, when it came, the feeling, the dread.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
no i screamed to whatever it was not him it horrified me i was so scared and helpless and that's when fred messaged me and told me he was going cliff jumping with his friend oh this will eat me alive forever but i said okay be safe i thought once again fate would change he was going with someone which meant that he would be safe i thought i was just in my head about this one he's 23 there's no way anything could happen to him you're indestructible when you're 23 right wrong
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
the next day i woke up and i realized i hadn't heard from him no text no call since 3 p.m the previous day i called no answer i texted i called again that's when i messaged the friends that he was with can you meet me she asked i agreed and she broke the news His death was classified as a drowning. She said he hit the water and started flailing.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
She ran down to the bottom and tried to bring him in but he was panicking and was bringing her down into the water. She got back up on land and turned to grab him once more but there was no sign of him. He was gone.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
My prediction is the force he picked up on his way down threw him deeper into the water than he had the breath for and he started inhaling before he reached the surface and never made it out.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
That's awful. I didn't sleep or eat for weeks, months even. I lost a concerning amount of weight. I could have stopped him, but I didn't believe my gut. I blamed his death on myself ever since.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
It's not your fault. And you don't want to mess with fate, you know? Yeah, and it's hard to believe that you know when these things are happening, so you're probably second-guessing it. Exactly. I would stay up at night crying and apologizing to him, someone with so much light, so much potential and purpose, gone.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
That is until I went to a medium and she assured me that my gift was not just in my head. And even if I begged him not to go, he still would have went. That helped a little bit. Yeah. The last prediction was the strangest and most haunting of them all. Trigger warning for suicide here. I was at work. I'm a waitress and I work in a small chain restaurant just in Atlantic Canada.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i'm about to dive in there it is oh that was really good alicia that was good is she here we need like a little like seance table in front of us which i feel like we're dressed for oh yeah you're you're actually i feel like something about the green is giving very madame leota oh i love that is it leona or leota it's whatever you want it to be This is your show. It can be what you want.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
The place was dead and I was wandering around searching for things to do when I got the feeling. But it wasn't just a feeling this time. It was a vision, too. I got this overwhelming, all-encompassing sense of sorrow, depression, and hopelessness. I was in a first-person perspective and went into my room, though, similar to how dreams work.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
It wasn't actually my room in reality, but in this vision it was mine, and I locked the door. I then grabbed gasoline, poured it on myself, and lit myself on fire. Holy shit. But I wasn't anyone I knew, which was the strangest thing. I had thought it was weird and definitely concerning, but it wasn't anyone I was familiar with.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Each one of my previous womp feelings, I knew the person I was referring to. I shook it off. The next day, I was on social media and read something on the news. At the exact same time I had a vision, a young guy a few towns over went into his room, locked the door, poured gas on himself, and set himself on fire. He did not survive. I have chills all over my arm.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i was in shock i didn't know him and this was also completely different from my other experiences i felt so afraid for those i felt so afraid for so long these would keep happening but that was a few years ago and they seem to have stopped i'd like to think that they're gone forever but i refuse to let my guard down because that's when death will sneak up on me like a fox with an unsuspecting squirrel so until then death but i'll be waiting for you thank you ladies for reading my tale if you did and if this is on the podcast i will never shut up about it
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I hope you ladies enjoy the rest of your day, week, month, life, year, etc. And I can't wait to continue to keep up with your journeys and see where life takes you. Thanks. Elena, I read your book and I absolutely adored it. Thank you. I took a hiatus from casual reading after life got incredibly busy. This is the best compliment. And your book brought me back to the bookworm I used to be.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh, that's literally my favorite compliment ever. So thank you for that. And I cannot wait for the second one. Hell yeah. Ash, that's me.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
i'm anxiously waiting for the pictures of your drew's wedding day and i'm so happy you have such a beautiful human to love and to love you because you both deserve that and more drew is a beautiful thank you he's the most beautiful human i know he's so lovely it's ridiculous i don't know how i got we love a drew i love him so much i just want to punch him just with love right in the kisser until then keep it weird but maybe not this weird millie but here's a picture of my dog stanley because why not he's just like oh my god i'm obsessed with
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I love him so much. He was doing like the Meg the Stallion. Yeah. Good job. I'm so proud of you. Look at me, I'm learning things. Oh my goodness, guys. Millie, that was a fucking harrowing tale. Haunting. Like harrowing. But you wrote it so well that it was, I just, it was fascinating. These were so good. They were so good. I have tacos. I have slaw. And chicken. And chicken. And chicken.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Chicken. This was amazing. This was so much fun. I feel like this is the most fun I've had on. Yeah, this was a lot of fun. Yeah, I think we're getting more comfortable being on camera. Definitely. I'm not going to do it that much more, but. No, we're going to keep it like this. Yeah. I said, don't get your hopes up. Don't get your hopes up. Don't. But we'll do lists on our tails. Yeah, for sure.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
We'll do lists on our tails. We'll keep doing that. We'll do it.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
um and until then we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you predict death definitely keep it like i mean keep it that weird it's kind of interesting uh definitely keep it so weird that you cut a hole in your wall and you had some creepy ass dolls in there oh yeah i have to open the rest because i don't have a memory due to 15 years of my life um
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Oh, keep it so weird that as a ghost you shove peaches up people's noses. Don't keep it so weird that your dog gets possessed, but that wasn't your fault, obviously. Keep it so weird that you run a non-profit for dogs, though. That's fucking absolutely incredible. And I think I got all of them. Yeah, just keep it weird. Keep it the weirdest. So weird. Ba-da-boo!
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Exactly. So you can make it whatever you want. I wish we took that tagline. I know. Like I wish we thought of it. That's a great tagline. Like I wish we stole that. I wish we could steal. No, I love them. So should I do the time a ghost shoved peaches up my nose? Yeah, that one's really funny, actually. Just nose. I said nosed. I'm not really sure. I didn't even hear that you said nose.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
You say whatever you want to say. I will, because it's my show. And not yours. Just kidding. All right, so let's get to this. All right. Hi there, spooky gals. Hi. My name is Jessie. Okay, I was making sure I could use it. I can use it. I don't mind if you use it. I appreciate you ladies and whatnot. I would say all the mushy stuff, but I'm not good at that.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Me neither. I'm the mushiest gushiest. So I'll just say you love us.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
And we love you. In fact, I had to say something really mushy to John the other night. You did? I had like a moment. You know how you get that moment of feeling like overwhelmingly appreciative? Yeah. Like you're just like, wow, you're so lovely. Yeah. And I get to hang with you forever. Yeah. And so I had all these like emotions about it. And he happened to be upstairs doing something.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
So I texted him and I literally said, I don't know how to do this in person. So deal with it. And he was like, that first part of the text had me dying. Also, 18 years into marriage, I don't really know how to tell you how much I love you. So deal with it. So deal with it. I'm going to text it to you. But he was like, he literally was like, I'm dying. You're unreal.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Sorry, I had a little piece of hair and like just like one piece of hair. Oh, that happens to me a lot. There it is.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
So I just didn't want you to yell at me for touching my face. No, don't worry. It's cool. So it says insert bunches of mush here. LOL. Honestly, that's essentially what I did to John the other day. I love that you did. You guys are the best and get what I mean. I do. I love you. I appreciate you. I respect you.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I previously sent this tale in, but after rereading it due to my BFF Alyssa, you can use her name. Thank you because I used it. Who also loves Morbid, by the way. Thank you, Alyssa. Alyssa! Told me I severely spelled Ottoman wrong. I mean, that happens. I would have done that too. I don't spell things correct.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I realized that in an effort to stay on topic and not get distracted a million times like I tend to do, that my tail was actually pretty short and needed more zest. Oh, I love zest. We love zest, darling. We're going for the zest. However, if you want a quick one, then feel free to use the original version. I'm not picky. I want this one. Yeehaw. Let's get into it.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I'm from Florida, hence my yeehaw. I was wondering. Yeehaw. Anywho, I'm a full-time dog nanny. That's awesome. Another dream job. That's a fucking great job. That I could handle. Yeah. I could do that. My IBS could definitely take that. And they said, yes, you could call it a pet sitter, but dog nanny sounds way cooler. I like dog nanny. I agree. Dog nanny. Yeah. A nanny for dogs. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
For context, back in the day, I used to groom dogs full time and give them snazzy haircuts. Shout out to Ash. I know it's not the same, but still, we were both some sort of hairstylist. It's also probably better because dogs can't talk. Yeah. And you got to make those dogs look fresh. Oh, it makes sense. One thing I'm going to miss about TikTok is watching dog grooming videos. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
When they make them look like little teddy bears. Little teddy bears. Little teddy bears. And they put the little bows on their hair.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I love that. Back then, I didn't dog nanny much since I was focused on being a dog barber. But there was a family with two dogs that I have always made time to nanny for. And I have claimed the dogs as my own since then. I would do that too. I visit them three to five times a week.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I'd like to think if the doggies were to become parentless for whatever reason that they would come live with me over anyone else in the family. I love how dark that thought is. If their entire family died, I feel like I would get custody of them. I feel like if for some reason their parents just...
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
weren't here anymore that i would get those dogs they just like vanished off the entire earth i love your mind yeah it's good i've had dogs written to me in people's wills that's like high praise that's the highest of praise like truly are you leaving me your dogs damn I mean, I trust you with them for sure, but I wouldn't want to disrupt your cats.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Because I care about those cats. Yeah, thank you. I care about those dogs.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
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Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Yeah, you know. Let's hope they stay alive because while I want all the dogs in the world, I already have two amazing fur babies of my own. And if I end up with more, I may need to get a bigger house. Yeah. Well, alrighty, for the first few years, the family mentioned above lived in a beautiful, safe-feeling house. Well, not anymore. Uh-oh. Last year, they moved.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
The pet parent, as I like to call it, had mentioned that her mother, who previously owned the home, left behind some antique items such as vintage mirrors, figurines, and the scariest dolls you have ever seen. All throughout the house. Plus, the house is covered in old-timey wallpaper, which isn't super relevant other than the spooky-ooky vibes. I love, which isn't super relevant, but spooky-ooky.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
In fact, there's a wallpaper man at my house right now figuring out how much wallpaper I need to order. Which is really badass. I'm so excited. It makes me want to wallpaper things. I'm going to order so much wallpaper. I love that. Flash forward to the first time I had a slumber party with the dogs there. There was a double closet in the room I was staying in.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I was hearing sounds from one side of the closet throughout the night, kind of like a tapping or soft banging noise. I'm a scaredy cat in general, so this was a huge nope for me. I opened that side of the closet only to find creepy dolls in rocking chairs. Specifically, doll-sized rocking chairs. You said in rocking chairs or and rocking chairs? In rocking chairs.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I just pictured like dolls on one side, multiple rocking chairs on the other. And these are dolls in their doll-sized rocking chairs. Just tiny rocking chairs. Ready? I'm going to look at every camera and say no. No, no, no. That's not even my camera, but I'm going to look at it and say no. Uh-uh.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
not up in here no it reminds me of ma i love that bitch i love that bitch so much but at home in one of our hallways ma had i'm not shitting your dicks guys she had three like big like three three story cases yeah of dolls yeah and let me tell you when you're like sneaking home at night after like a little
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
You sneak home at night fully sober. You walk up the stairs in the daytime at that house fully sober. They're going to eat you. The dolls. They're coming at you. They're staring at you. She loves it. Oh, and I had to walk past every case to get to my room. I think that's why. So obviously I grew up in that house. Yeah. And I grew up with those dolls. Yeah, that's your mom.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I am not freaked out by dolls. And I think it's because I spent my entire formative years Being exposed to those dolls being in my life at all times. I spent a lot of time being exposed to those dolls too. And I. I don't know. I hate them. I mean, I don't know what it did. Because I think I'm just so used to them. I was used to her getting dolls for different like holidays.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
I think there's a puppy coin. There is a puppy coin. She wants to say hello. She said, you're talking about doggies and I'm a dog. Hello. That's definitely a Blanche. That's definitely a Blanche. She said, I like the 1920s. My name's Blanche. Can I wear a dress? But yeah, I'm not freaked out by dolls. Like dolls don't freak me out in general.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed, but it just isn't. Things like your friends being on their way when they text you, or getting out the same number of socks from the dryer that you put in. AT&T is introducing a new guarantee, the AT&T Guarantee, because there's a lot in life that's not guaranteed.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Now I'm just thinking rural doll. Yeah. But yeah, I don't like dolls. What a journey that went on. That's the inside of my brain for you. Now I'm thinking Roald Dahl. And you know what? James and the Giant Peach. Peaches. Peaches. James and the Giant Peach is Roald Dahl, right? Yeah. Oh, I thought you said James and the Giant Peach is a real doll, right? And I said...
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Did you see the math going on? Yeah, it's Roald Dahl. Yeah, we're here. No, it is. We're here. We're here with you.
Morbid
Episode 641: Listener Tales 94
Yeah, it connects. It connects. Wait, Peach is here. At first, though, again, I misunderstood you. We're not getting back into it. I thought you said roll call. Roll call! Mikey! Present. I'm still big red. Yes. All right. Here we are. I love it. After that, the closet kept opening by itself overnight. No.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
Mac forward. It was when we did the Andrew McMahon episode and I realized that literally the entire episode, I'm just like this.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
Oh, that's so dumb. That is dumb. All right. My name is Lisa. Feel free to use my name. Lisa. Lisa. You're really funny today.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
I like that guy. Yeah. Like, he was just motioned. Can you do that again? Yes. And that was, like, the straight-up charades.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
I'm crying. It's Boots. Something about sugar kicking too. It's funny. Boots the house down. All right. Oh my goodness. Not too long after that. Oh my Joseph. Oh my Joseph. And his Boots.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
Then it was a crumb. A wee little crumb. Little crumb. A little crumb.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
if you stand at the front of the school you're greeted by a split level along with a very along with a very ripped jesus on the cross a very ripped jesus jesus says can you spot me one set of stairs goes up to the classroom do you even lift bro Imagine Jesus looking at you and saying, do you even lift, bro? Iconic.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
We can do whatever we want because it's our show. We're going to do that.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
This is Marvin Lesson or Tale. Brought to you by you, for you, from you, and all about you.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Things got worse, though, near the summer of 1906 when she told Chester she was pregnant. Oh, no. And it was definitely his because she was not seeing anyone else. He panicked and she was also very anxious simply because it was 1906. It's not like unwed young mothers were treated like magical beings creating life. No. They were treated like whores who were unfit to be in proper society. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
This, in fact, from what I've, like, you know, all the things that I was reading and seeing about this, it was literally, like, the amount of women, young women, who ended up killing themselves.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Because they felt it was a better outcome than the social ostracization.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Oh, I was kind of saying it wrong. Ostracization. Ostracization. That's hard to say. Yeah. Okay. It was better than being ostracized by society is what I'm thinking here.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
So, yeah, so this was like a big deal. It's not great. So she knew she had to hide out. She couldn't be around everybody. She went back to her family's farm and she communicated with Chester through letters. It was Chester who encouraged this, in fact, telling her to go hang out with her family and everything was going to be fine. Basically, go away. Get out of my face. Like, you fucking dick.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
He's a total dick. He was very negligent with her feelings, very much still sleeping around and very uninterested in the idea of being a good partner or father. But he was also a liar and a very good manipulator. He had to have been. It's that kind of guy. So he had to keep her on a leash a bit because he was a guy who wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Before she left, he had been ignoring her and making her feel just awful. But when the letters began, she basically found herself desperately begging him for attention or any kind of hope or hint that they would be married.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And she's like, so she's basically like, give me any hope that you're going to marry me so that I can go out into society. Right. I can't go out with this child until we're married. And like, and so, you know, and she started getting the attention that she was looking for. He started telling her, yes, he would marry her and they would have a life together and just wait. It's going to be fine.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
No. Then one letter changed that. He told her he wanted to whisk her away for a romantic getaway.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Oh, yeah. He told her he wanted to take her to the Adirondacks in July. And this felt like the moment that he was going to propose. She thought this was the wedding trip. Of course. Either proposing or we're actually getting married. And sources say Grace was just over the moon excited. So they left in July and stopped at the Hotel Glenmore at Big Moose Lake. And they ate at Alta Cliff Cottage.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And they checked in with him using an alias. So that's fucking weird. He used the alias Carl Graham and she used her real name. So that was already what's going on. I'm surprised he didn't have her use a fake name. Well, I think he's also a fucking idiot. That's good. As we'll see. So I think that was part of it.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
According to the Evening Courier, a waitress there named Grace Greenwood said she witnessed them having dinner the evening before Grace was killed. And she said Grace was, quote unquote, hysterical at dinner. Apparently Chester was trying to console her, trying to tell her you have to eat. And she said she just couldn't.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Exactly. Now, the next morning, this waitress saw her again and described her as, quote-unquote, depressed. Like, she said she looked devastated.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I know. That's the thing. Like, come here, girl. We'll get you in a separate room. Now, on the way to the hotel, they took a bus and the driver asked where they wanted to go. And this will just give you another little, like, insight into, like, Chester's way of, like, it sounds like he was just being a dick. So the bus, the driver was like, where do you guys want to go?
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And Chester just gruffly answered, any old hotel. Oh, nice. Charming. Yeah. Your romantic getaway and you're just like, whatever dump you want to bring us to. Because he didn't care.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
So the next day he told Grace he was going to bring her for a romantic picnic and they were going to take a boat ride. Oh, no. Despite her telling him in a letter that she didn't know how to swim. Oh, no. They rented a rowboat from a man named Robert Morrison. They got on the boat and he brought them to, and apparently like Robert didn't come on the boat with them. He just rented it to them.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
But Chester brought them, like rode them to the deepest and most isolated part of the lake.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Exactly. Or even worse could be that she had no idea. Yeah. And just thought he was actually being like romantic. Right. Yeah. And that's apparently the South Bay area is like the deepest point in the lake. Once there, nobody can really tell what exactly went down because it was only the two of them in the middle of the lake. Right.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
But once there, what did eventually happen was he beat Grace brutally with a horn-handled umbrella and a tennis racket.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Yeah. Robert Morrison, the guy who had rented them the boat, said when they didn't return the boat around dinner, he was suspicious. Of course. But the next morning, he and a few others went out to try to find them because he was like, I hope nothing happens. And they found the empty boat in her coat and then came across her body. Oh. And she was dead. He had fled. Believable.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
He hid it out at the Arrowhead Hotel in Inlet. And meanwhile, during the three days he hid like the coward that he was, he also called to get an advance on his pay and received one. So he was planning on taking off.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And I love that later this fucker will pretend and be like, oh, no, I'm innocent. I didn't do it. And it's like, why were you hiding? Nothing about how you acted said you
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
were innocent if this was an accident or something which obviously it's not because she was beaten brutally like they can tell that you dumbass but it's like even if it was an accident why would you leave your pregnant girlfriend like almost fiance dead in a lake and leave the boat and then just hide out and then just for an advance on payment yeah like none of that makes any sense
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Now, when they came to, because they immediately, they talked to her family and they were like, oh, she's with this guy. So immediately they went to find him. And when they did find him, he actually tried to first claim he didn't even know Grace. He is the father of her unborn child, and he claimed he didn't even know her.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
When I say this guy is a fucking idiot, he's a fucking idiot.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
There's literally no way you can claim you don't know her. He was arrested and immediately charged with her murder. She was covered in bruises and had a good head wound and lacerations to her forehead and her mouth when she was discovered. And she was also discovered to be four months pregnant.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Because he was also making her believe that he was going to come around.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
No, that's so sad to think that that long went on. Yeah. His claim was that, first, that she killed herself. But, like, after beating herself up? No one believed that. According to the Evening Courier, they found the broken, bloody tennis racket buried on the shore.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
There was a lot to be made about whether she was dead before she hit the water during the trial. But the consensus did seem to be that she likely was. He had beaten her to death and thrown her in the water. He also claimed at one point that she jumped in willingly. Can't swim, remember. Well, she might have jumped in to get away from him. Yeah, exactly.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And he said he tried to help her and the boat tipped over. But he arrived at the hotel he had out at with all dry clothing. Huh. So.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
The trial was bonkers. Everyone was there. He's a big name. I mean, a very wealthy family. Like, this is a well-known bachelor. The media went wild. No one even knew he was dating this woman because they had kept it so under wraps. Never mind that he was the father of her unborn child. And now he was a murderer of her and a child. His own child. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
On December 5th, 1906, the jury deliberated for five hours and found him guilty of first degree murder. Good. He was sentenced to die in the electric chair. Fantastic. He spent a couple of years at Auburn Correctional Facility and apparently got some spiritual guidance along the way. And sources say he confessed to the murder to many of them.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Exactly. He was executed March 30th, 1908. He exhausted all his appeals. He tried to get out of it. I think his mother even wrote a letter to the governor trying to get a stay, but she couldn't. That's sad for his mom because he put her in that position.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I'm pretty sure his grave, he was in an unmarked grave, and I'm pretty sure it got paved over by a road. So there's that. No comment. No comment on that. According to Adirondack.com, the murder of Grace Brown influenced the 1925 Adirondack folk song, The Ballad of Big Moose Lake.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
oh uh because that is the lake that she was uh drowned in and there's also a 1951 movie a place in the sun that is based on this story uh and there's also a 1925 novel an american tragedy that's based on it and a 1926 play about it and a 2005 opera by the same name and that's just a few of things that have been influenced by this that's crazy
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Now, A Place in the Sun and An American Tragedy apparently take Chester's side a lot and basically say grace. And what side is that? They basically show grace to be what Robert Stack on Unsolved Mysteries said was they called her a woman of easy virtue. Basically, a hoe.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Yeah. In the 20th century. And that she should be murdered while pregnant because of that.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Apparently. So like, fuck those two things. Yeah, fuck them. Now, that isn't the end of the story because people keep seeing Grace.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I hate that she's stuck there. Yeah, she's stuck at the lake. People keep seeing a complete apparition of a glowing woman walking the shores of Moose Lake or across the surface of the lake.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Yeah, and also see her walking down the halls of the Big Moose Inn where she stayed. If she's not wandering the shore, people will have seen her struggling in the lake trying to get help, like almost like a repeat of what's happening. Sometimes she's seen at the cottages along the lake and like the lodge there. And apparently she likes to turn off the lights all the time.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
She doesn't like lights on. And I wonder if that's because it's like... The 1906 of it all, she's like, I didn't live with electricity. What is this? Maybe it's too bright. I think it's too bright. According to Weird New York, sometimes people recall feeling intense sadness around the lake, almost like an uncontrollable dread.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
They theorize that she and her child being killed trapped her there, and she's somehow unable to continue to move on. I want to go there and help her. Which makes me so sad. I know. Let's go. I want to. I hate that she's trapped there with all this sadness around her.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Now, this was also featured on an episode of the OG Unsolved Mysteries. I heard you watching it the other day.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
They talked about a group of people in this episode that worked at the Covewood Lodge in 1988. That's near Big Moose Lake. One of them, Rhonda, said she stopped at the staff lodge to turn out the lights. And she was with like a group of three other people who worked at the lodge. And as soon as she went in, she said she felt like someone was there.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And she said she went up to like the top floor where like there's a balcony overlooking where her friends were in the lake. And she said she didn't see anything, but she said she just like knew someone was there. Like felt a presence. Like just felt that. And she said it was very strange, very unsettling. And outside, meanwhile, her friends saw a woman standing on the balcony glowing in white.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
like fully in like a 1906 garb and she just was standing there looking out onto the lake and then she and she just stood there and they all three of them said the same thing that they saw the same thing and they said she stood there and then all of a sudden just dissipated and was gone
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
the tinglys that are happening all over my bod imagine seeing that I would my goosebumps have goosebumps and they all say that she's like has such a sad look on her face and she's just looking out over the lake
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
She sounds like she's going to vomit every time she burps. But we needed to really describe them. The reason is not like, oh, there's liquid involved. It's like, no, you're going to throw up. And so we all brace like, ah, she's going to puke. Every time. And it's scary.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Exactly. Exactly. And the same episode tells the story of Linda Lee Mackin and her friend Bridget, who vacationed at the lake around the same time. And they had flashlight issues because like, I really don't think Grace likes this electricity business. Like they were going down to the lake and the flashlight kept dimming and then just shut off. But the batteries were like brand new.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And they were like, wow, that's so pretty, like so spooky. And then they said all of a sudden the mist formed into a woman. And they said who just looked at them and they literally said it with such extreme sadness. That's all they could get from her. And they said, and actually Linda said she felt it.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
extreme overwhelming sadness herself like she was like it was literally like I immediately felt just like hopelessness and sadness and she said it was overwhelming and then the next day they were in the lodge and they were walking through like the lobby and there's memorabilia
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
about this like like old newspapers and shit and there's photos of grace and chester and they said they you could have knocked them over with a feather because they were like we saw that picture of grace and we were like that is the woman that appeared to us last night you imagine having like having an experience like that jarring that would blow and that's my fucking mind
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And she just appears to you sad, I'd be like, what can I do to help you? I know. I would not say that in that moment because I would probably shit my pants. I'm not pretending. I'd be like, what can I do to help you? I would be so confident. My shit would not be rocked at all. I would just be like, what can I do to help you pass through? I would go into help mode. No, I would not.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I'm not claiming that. But looking back on it, you want to be like, fuck, I want to stand in front. Now, if she appears, you want to be like, what can we do to help you? Grace. How can I get you not here? I know. Because I don't want you to be on this lake. It's sad.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I never watched that. Oh. It was Jennifer Love Hewitt, right? Yeah. Jennifer Love Hewitt.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I want to help Grace. But that is the story of Grace Brown's tragic, tragic murder at Big Moose Lake and now her haunting at Big Moose Lake.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And herein lies the difference. I know. I know too. I'm not dispelling. I'm not dispelling that description of my burps. I'm not dispelling it, but it hurts my feelings.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
What's that? Insane. It's like fucking cave diving. Don't do that. Well... Don't do that.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Like a volcano that emptied its entire magma reservoir, which weakened the stability of it. And then it just like just in on itself. It did in fact. And then it's like, I just like looking up at a volcano. Yeah. Must be. Unbelievable, like just the size. That would give me the chili willies. Just the massive structure in front of you. And then to think of that the other way.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I think we're feeling... Oh, now you're going to cough during my episode? I pity you. I pity you.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
That must be the most horrifying thing to come in contact with. Truly. Is a plane crash.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
wow gene crazy holy shit i want to read her book it's right yeah let me tell you what it's called i'm like damn gene yeah her book is called we fly away oh gene i know there's a picture of her with like scrapbooks and one of these articles in the heralds what is it the herald news or something um the herald news yeah she um it's a picture of like dave who was a stunner a stunner and
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
I'm literally crying. We have, like, today's, like, a spooky episode, but also a true crime episode. Yeah, for both of us. There's full true crime in here. This isn't just Spooky Yuki, but there's also Spooky Yuki.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Like in depth. Yeah. And mine is like there's only so much information about it. So I got as much as I possibly could. And I told the whole story. It would have been a mini morbid had I not stepped up. It's true. It would have been a mini morbid. But you know what? But you know what? Maybe they'll come back. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Maybe. 2025 is a wild year.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
It's very strange. Yeah. And it's like, did they take the shoes off after they were killed or did they take them off after they got them down on their knees? Right. So they couldn't run.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
So maybe we'll see Minnie Morbids again. Someday. Maybe the theme song will come back. Maybe. I'm not making promises. I'm just saying. It's possible. We have to find the file. Do we have that file?
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
That's spooky. That's really spooky. And also Wizard Island does look like a wizard's hat. It does. Correct.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Yeah, back in the stewed, you know. The stewed, really? I like that. I forgot the pod lab. I'm in the stewed. I'm in the stewed. Yeah, so maybe, I don't know, that's something to chew on. Gross. But other than that, we're trying to, spring is almost here, everybody. It's like 20 days to spring.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
UFOs underwater, man. I mean, it's happening a lot lately. That thing's 2,000 feet deep in some spots. So many places to go. There's definitely UFOs down there. Oh, the places, though.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And in New England over here, it's been fucking awful this winter. It's been fucking freezing and so goddamn dry that I've been sick the entire winter. I just got the neurovirus. In fact, like luckily, knock on everything, we were able to contain it to just me, which is always the goal.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Because you can't hold him down. You can't hold him down. Don't you dare tether him. The old man of the goddamn lake. Not my man's. I too would make the weather go fucking lawless if you tied me to the side of it. Lawless.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
He is a maverick, but he's magic as well. He's a magic maverick. He's a maverick.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Oh yeah, we gotta touch upon Crater Lake again. And I'm very interested to hear more about that double murder.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
But, yeah, it hasn't been a banner season for me, so I'm getting on my supplement game and getting myself out of this.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Well, I've been drinking liquid IVs. Liquid IVs are also great. We love a liquid IV. We do. And I've just, you know, I've been doing some turmeric and elderberry and zinc and vitamin C. She got me on the turmeric. All the good things. Just trying to boost that immune, you know, immune system. You gotta. But going into, because I want to go into spring and summer and fall and all the fun seasons.
Morbid
Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Thriving. You know? But I've been reading a couple books that are really good. Yeah? And I figured I'd just like quickly share them with you guys in case you're looking for something to read. Do so. So I just read Fantastic Land by Mike Bokovan. It's really good, and the audiobook is fucking phenomenal. Nice. It's super fast-paced.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
It's basically about a bunch of people getting stranded in an amusement park during a hurricane and having to survive, and it gets super gnarly. I said nice, but...
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
nice that's great that's great for them good for uh it was really good though i thought it was really fun if you're looking for something really fun really dark really fucked up hell yeah and right now i'm reading this wretched valley by jenny keifer and so far it's really good really spooky i'm very intrigued by it nice um and we're just i'm trying to get more leisure reading in done this year so i'm also trying to do that i will try to share our recommendations
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
It's true. We're only on episode two because we can maybe only get one episode done a night. Like we have to skip nights in between and stuff. So we will get there eventually. It'll take us a while, but.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Yeah. So go take care of them. Yeah. And support them. Yep. Good call. Yeah. So, dude, I can start with mine if you want. You better. You better, bitch. You better. I was going to say, you better start, bitch. You better start, bitch. You want a listener tale? Not a listener tale.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
This is a spooky lake, but it's going to start with a very real and very tragic murder from 1906. Okay. So this is the story of Grace Brown's murder, and it is a very tragic one. Let's start at a great place, which is the beginning. I love starting there. Grace grew up in South Otselek, I think it is, in Chenango County in New York. Okay.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
When she was young, she grew up on a dairy farm, and she attended school and graduated at 16 years old. She had a very, like, normal upbringing on a dairy farm. Very cute farm upbringing. Nice. All was well until she moved to Cortland and lived with her sister Ada. Now, living with her sister, she needed to find a job, and she found a good one, it turns out.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
She ended up working at the Gillette Skirt Factory in Cortland. And upon beginning her employment there, she quickly became acquainted with the owner's nephew, Chester Gillette. He also worked there with her. He was from a wealthy family, but he was kind of all over the place. Like, he was a little bit of a mess.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
He could never hold down anything steady, and he was kind of just living the high life with no responsibilities. Fun. And he was also, like, very much, like, macking on all the girls there. But he really focused in on Grace. So... His uncle had tried to get to help him on the straight and narrow and he offered him a job at the factory. That's how he got the job. It was good pay. It was full time.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
So he was fine to take it because also there was a lot of women working there. That's kind of his ideal sitch. It really is. And he also probably liked the power he got from being like the nephew of the owner.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Like it's the Gillette skirt factory and he's Chester Gillette. And you don't have to do like anything probably.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
So it wasn't long before 20-year-old Grace, and she was 19 when they met, but 20 when she died. Okay. 20-year-old Grace and 23-year-old Chester began dating. It was a torrid affair, as all workplace affairs tend to be. I love a torrid. But it was all secret. Of course. It was all very secret.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Not just because they worked together, but because she was a dairy farm girl who came from a farm background. He was a wealthy man about town, socialite, who was sought after by every girl in the upper class in the area and every girl in every class in the area.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
He was essentially ashamed to be dating a young woman who is considered to be lower class, like lower social scale than he was. What a douchebag. He was a douchebag. He didn't want people knowing he was dating a factory farm girl.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
So don't waste her fucking time. Oh, she could have done so much better than him. I guarantee you. He's scum between a troll's toes. Not only was he keen to keep this thing under wraps, but he was also freely and openly dating and sleeping with other women right in front of Grace. Grace was not pleased about this and expressed this displeasure often, but he didn't give a shit.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
He just didn't care how she felt. And it devastated her because I think this was like she was young and she had grown up on a farm. You know, like this was her big... First big job. And I think this was like the first time she had actually been in a big relationship.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
Yeah. He also convinced her to be with him unchaperoned. Which was scandal at the time. Because he didn't want anyone knowing they were together, so they couldn't have a chaperone.
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Episode 653: Spooky Lakes (Volume 2)
And honestly, this was a big deal. And obviously now you're like, ooh. But back then, this risked her entire reputation. Yeah. Like he did not give a shit that he was putting her entire social reputation at stake here. Because he would have been fine. Yeah, he didn't care at all. And he just never took her in public. Ever. Never. He would never take her in public. That's so sad.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Which like, wow. It's different. Hearing that, you're just like, fuck. Yeah. Yeah.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Anything fun, I should say. Anything else fun. Anything fun at all.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Guys, sometimes I'm all for a cerebral horror movie or cerebral thriller. I love like a deep one, like a moody one. But sometimes you just want a fucking gimmicky serial killer that only kills people on certain holidays. Hell yeah. You know, sometimes you just want that. And it looks like Hard Eyes. It looks...
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, within a few weeks of Bobby's disappearance, a new theory had started circulating and it was alleging that the boy hadn't simply just wandered off, but was kidnapped from the campsite.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
According to some press accounts, quote, the local police hold to the belief that the child was brought to New Orleans during the early part of the week by the woman who was seen to alight from the train station at Port Allen with a child answering the little fellow's description. That was in the Times Democrat in 1912. Okay.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
According to this account, a passenger on a train from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, had spotted a boy he believed to be Bobby Dunbar traveling in the company of a young black woman. The woman was reportedly very well-dressed, but the police in New Orleans still just with no basis associated this woman with a group of men living on the outskirts of a nearby logging camp.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And they quickly developed a theory that the group had kidnapped Bobby Dunbar to hold him for ransom.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Very confused about that. Hello? It's like, wow, okay. It's like, I hope they stretched before they made that leap.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, soon after the reports of Bobby being seen in the company of this young woman, investigators began receiving other reports of sightings, which is, this happens a lot. Yep. and they were as far away as California. The St. Landry clarion alleged, it is now believed by many that little Robert Dunbar, who disappeared from the fishing camp at Swayze Lake, has been kidnapped.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
There was no basis for this. They just said, you know what, we decided. They said, you know what, he's kidnapped now. Just a week after Bobby was supposedly spotted in the company of that young woman, another report came in of his being seen with an Italian woman who was clearly not his mother. The kidnapping narrative just kept on going into the fall.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Just different people kidnapping this kid for different reasons. Which is giving his family hope. Yeah, and making them probably terrified.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah, and by November, the reward amount had increased to $6,000. Damn. And again, this is 1912.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, the reward notice, which had been circulated to every state in the country, said, quote, Bobby is presumed to have been taken away by a woman about 30 years old, and the boy might have been carried away for the purposes of securing a ransom for his return, although no demands have been received from any source. So why would you think that? So you have literally no reason to think that.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
We have not received any ransom demands. It's been like a month. But we are of the mind that they are asking for ransoms. Don't you think they would have asked for ransom if they wanted ransom?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So despite not having any evidence to support the belief and citing only a handful of possible random sightings several months earlier, the press managed to keep the kidnap story alive and continued to promote the idea that Bobby had been kidnapped for ransom. But interest in the story had started to actually kind of wane as the months went on.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
You know, they weren't getting any new information, so there was not a lot of new stuff to print. Different things start to happen just the way it is. And the story, though, got a burst of energy the next month when a new story started circulating that Bobby had been killed by his captors. Oh. And now the press is printing this like it happened.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
According to one of the detectives on the case, Joseph and Robert Marshall, two men who had been arrested for the kidnapping now, they're saying, told investigators, quote, the boy had been put out of the way because it was difficult to conceal him any longer.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
No idea why this happened. It is unclear why this story was given any... It's kind of unclear why it was given any credence by journalists. It was to sell newspapers. There was no physical evidence that the Marshall brothers, or anyone else for that matter, had Bobby in their possession, let alone had killed him. No evidence whatsoever.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But for the press, who had started to honestly run out of ways at this point to keep the story alive... The murder narrative was a convenient way to kind of wind it up again and captivate the nation for another few months.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Unfortunately for journalists, or fortunately, depending how you look at it, I guess, reports of Bobby's death were about to be seriously undermined, reviving the story in a way that I don't think anybody was ready to hear it revived. I wouldn't say so.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, after it was reported that Bobby was killed, the story kind of silently pulled back out of the public's view again for a little while, because that was kind of the end. Right, it got wrapped up. We have a wrap up.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But a few months later, in early April 1913, the last of the men arrested for the supposed kidnapping were set free by a court order after the district attorneys, quote, informed the court that there was absolutely no evidence for prosecution. their release, again, seemed to signal kind of the end of the Dunbar story because now
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I guess he's been murdered, but they have no evidence to prove anything that he's been murdered. So now it's like these little things keep happening, but they're really just endpoints. They're like periods on the story.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But then a twist came because a few weeks later, Bobby Dunbar, or at least someone resembling Bobby Dunbar, was found in the company of a man named William Walters, who was a peddler in Columbia, Mississippi. Now, Walters was arrested on a charge of kidnapping, and the boy with him was taken into custody. But from the moment of Walters' arrest, the story was anything but simple.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
This was not just a simple, like, here he is. According to Walters, this boy was not Bobby Dunbar. This was Bruce Anderson, and he had been given to Walters by his mother, Julia Anderson. At the time, Anderson was working as a field hand and caretaker to Walters' elderly parents. Hopefully you guys can follow that. But she lacked the resources to care for her son and left him in the Walters' care.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And he said, so he wrote in a statement after he was arrested, I got this child at the residence of J.P. Walters, Burnsville, North Carolina, between November and Christmas 1911.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It just looks like a lot of fun. I'm excited about it. This is not an ad, by the way.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I got this kid. I got this kid. I got this kid. Around this time. Julia Anderson claimed to be the mother of the child. I don't know the father. The child was about three years old when I got him. Now, according to Walters, there were at least 100 people who had seen him and this boy, Bruce, together before and after Bobby Dunbar went missing. Okay.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Which he said, that's proof that this is not Bobby Dunbar. I mean, yeah. The following day, April 21st, Percy and Leslie Dunbar traveled 175 miles to Columbia. Yeah. Eager thinking that this is their son. Of course. But when they arrived, they were kind of surprised. Apparently it was dark when they got there and the child was asleep.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Lessie said he, quote, looks more like her son than any child she has ever seen. But she couldn't be certain that it was him. Mm hmm.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
with only oil lamp for light because remember we're in 1912 she examined him and after looking him over one journalist reported that she gasped and said i do not know i'm not quite sure okay another report published the next day said that the what that uh lessee recognized him instantly and it said quote mrs dunbar made a careful examination of the lad without awakening him
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
and was standing over the bed a few hours later when the child opened his eyes. The boy recognized his mother instantly and stretched out his arms to her. Now has that one actually happened? And that's the thing, like, so you see that, and this is why it's so dangerous when people... Lie? Do that. But it's like, because you're going to see that story and be like, oh my, that's so great.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
That's beautiful. And oh, he knew her. So that's it. Proof. Right. But it's like, they're just writing whatever the fuck they want. To sell the papers. So the first of those two reports is probably the truer of the two. Yeah, she wasn't sure. According to Tal McThania, quote, Percy and Lessie both told the papers the boy didn't look like their son. Hmm.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Among other things, his eyes were apparently much smaller than Bobby's and he was missing a scar on his foot that Bobby was known to have had. Yeah, and you don't really get rid of scars. Exactly.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Making things even more complicated was the fact that the boy seemed confused and didn't really seem to have any knowledge and familiarity that one would expect Bobby Dunbar to have with his family, with what was going on.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
About a year. About a year. So he would still remember his family. Yeah, it's not like it's like 10 years down the road or something. Despite that, Percy and Lessie returned the following day and Lessie gave the boy a bath, examining him more closely now that it was daylight. Yeah. So she was bathing him to kind of look and see if there was marks, moles that she knows her son to have. Sure.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And when she did this, she enthusiastically announced that this was her son.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Exactly. Like, I can't... I feel like this was just, I want this to be my son. Yeah.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But then again, maybe it was. Who's to say? I will at the end of this. In early accounts of this reunion, many among the press noted that Lessie had a lot of anxiety over her uncertainty and the boys' unfamiliarity with them. One journalist wrote, quote, Bobby at first meeting turns upon Alonzo with a scowl of anger. That's his brother. There appeared to be no recognition of his little brother.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But after Lessie and Percy formally claimed this boy, most journalists reversed course and celebrated the reunion with, you know, as like this heartwarming thing. According to one paper, quote, the instant they met, Robert said, there's my Bubba, Alonzo, and reached over and kissed him.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Some papers went even further, reporting that Bobby had, quote, asked frequently about his brother while he was in New Orleans and was very eager to see him. Okay. This is really fucked up of these papers. It is. Of course it is. This is really fucked up because none of this is confirmed. You're just writing fantasy.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And Bobby returned home to Opelousas with Percy and Lessie in late April to much fanfare and excitement. The town, who again had fundraised to find this boy, had rallied around this family. They threw a huge parade with a big band to celebrate his return. William Walters was in custody now, so everyone was like, wow, this terrible story has a happy ending.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
His kidnapper being brought to justice, and we have Bobby back. Every time they thought it was over, it wasn't, but now it was. And now it was, except it wasn't, because one woman is going to come into the picture and put a little bit of a doubt in everyone's mind. All right. Now...
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
In her statement to the authorities, Julia Andrews, remember, Bruce's mom, confirmed some of the details of Walter's story. Okay. While strongly refuting several of his claims. So it's getting weirder and weirder because now we have someone coming in and saying, oh, he's telling the truth a little bit. But there's also parts of this where he's lying out of his fucking face. Okay.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah. So she said, and this is in the Times Democrat 1913, William Walters left Barnesville, North Carolina with my son, Charles Bruce, in February 1912, saying that he only wanted to take the child with him for a few days on a visit to the home of his sister. I have not seen the child from that day to this. I did not give him the child. I merely consented for him to take my son for a few days.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, according to Julia, she had known him. Like, this isn't some random guy that came and was just like, hey, can I take your son for a few days? And she was like, absolutely. Well, because she worked for his parents, right? Yeah, so she knew him. Yeah. And according to Julia, Bruce had taken a very strong liking to Walters. Her son had liked this man. Yeah, she's comfortable.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Followed him everywhere. So she didn't see any harm with a short trip.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Like, just was like, this is going to be fine.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So when Walters failed to return with Bruce, Julia became very concerned, but she didn't really know where he had gone or how to get in touch with him because it's 1912 and she can't just like location share him or something. Like she's like, I don't know.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
She's like, I can't. What do I do? She's like, hey, send me a ping. Yeah. Yeah, so she just waited, hoping that he was going to come back. Yeah. She said, I am willing to go anywhere to identify him on condition that my expenses be paid and that I be allowed to take my child away from Walters. I do not want him to have my child.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, the problem, at least for Julia, was that this child in question had just been claimed as Bobby Dunbar by the Dunbar's. But Walters is still saying this is Bruce Anderson. It's not. Now, sensing a big story, the press in Louisiana just jumped on this opportunity. And they paid to have Julia brought to the city to examine this boy.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So she went on an overnight train ride to get there and was brought to the Dunbar home.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, five different boys were presented to her for inspection. Oh, okay. Smart to do it that way. Exactly. Including the boy the Dunbars had claimed was Bobby. Yeah. Julia didn't recognize most of the boys, but when Bobby Dunbar, who they claimed was Bobby Dunbar, was presented to her, he had tears in his eyes and seemed upset. He refused to say whether he recognized Julia, which is strange.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And Julia, who was exhausted and very stressed out from travel, couldn't say whether that was Bruce. Which is like, I've never been in this situation. I can't imagine not recognizing my child. But again, who knows? Who knows? Maybe it was dark. Once again, I have never been under this kind of stress. Well, that's the thing. I have never been under this kind of situation. I am not in 1912.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I don't know what the lighting is even like there.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I can't imagine, but I also can't imagine the circumstances that all this is happening under. So I'm going to keep my own opinion out of this because... There's nothing for me to say. I've never been in this position. So my opinion on this would be kind of moot at this point. Speaking from 2025 over here with great lighting and all the running water I could hope for. No. So there's that.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But she did ask whether this was the boy found traveling with Walters. But the lawyers in the room wouldn't answer her questions. Mm-hmm. Now, because she wasn't unable to identify this boy confidently or any of the children, really, everyone concluded that the entire test had been a failure. And that was it. Yeah. According to Tal McThania, quote, Julia begged for a second chance.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And the next day she was allowed to see the boy again and to look him over. Like actually, which again, like this boy just keeps getting examined.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
This time she felt more certain that it was her son. But her failure the night before was already national news. And none of the press wanted to correct any of the countless articles that had already been published celebrating Bobby's return to the Dunbar's. They wanted to stay with that story because that was a fun, heartwarming story. This is like a big old bummer.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I think we talked about it on a recent episode that we were just saying like, you know, like one of our resolutions. I almost said revolution. Funny. Yeah.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, just as they had since Bobby disappeared nine months earlier, the press controlled the narrative around the Dunbar story and they had decided the outcome for themselves. They did not want to hear anything else. They set about dismissing Julia's claims and they decided they were just going to portray her as an unfit mother.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
both um one of our resolutions is to be kinder to ourselves and we wanted you guys to make sure you are also practicing that because it's important and i think that's another good one to add to the list is like try and i think honestly with the bombardment of shit and news that is happening right now and how overwhelmed everyone feels because i feel very overwhelmed insanely um
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
In one article titled Julia Has Forgotten, journalist Jerome G. Beatty described Julia's examination of the boy they were saying was Bobby Dunbar. And wow, it's a I'm going to give you a little I'm going to give you a little snippet from it. It's harsh. It's harsh as fuck. It says her long journey had been in vain. She had not seen her son since February of 1912, and she had forgotten him.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Animals don't forget. But this big, coarse country woman, several times a mother, she forgot. She cared little for her young. Children were only regrettable incidents in her life. She hopes her son isn't dead, just as she hopes that the cotton crop will be good this year. Of true mother love, she has none. How do you know that?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So that doesn't even really make any sense. It's just, you know what it is? Like, regardless of what you think about, you know, Julia or whatever the hell, like, in the story of the situation, that's just like a really nasty judgment to throw on someone that you don't know. Yeah, and it's adding insult to injury. That's the thing. There's a lot of...
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Emotions and emotional turmoil happening in every fucking part of this story. The Dunbars, Julia's, like, I don't know what's going on with Walter or William Walters, but like some shit's going on over there too. What she's saying is true. Her child was fucking kidnapped. Yeah, that's the thing.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And it's like, and then the Dunbars have lost their child and have no idea what happened to him and are thinking this is, there's so much emotion here. And the press was just not willing to look at it from a human level and say, there's a lot of emotions and a lot of stress, anxiety, grief, trauma, just hope, hope dashed, hope brought back. You know what I mean?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Like these, all these people have been snip snapped around like, thank you, hope.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It's such a situation that, like, none of us can conceive of. Oh, you cannot fathom that. And in such a time where, like, shit was real dark. So it's, like, literally and physically. And it's, like, I couldn't even say that word. For the press to be such dicks. It's, like, they were literally, like, trolls. Like, the press were trolls just, like, trying to make people upset. OG. It's like, damn.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So the truth was, Julia Anderson was very distressed and very heartbroken about not knowing where her son was and whether this was her son. And that same year, what they were failing to say in any of these articles, saying she's been a mother several times over and she doesn't give a shit. That same year, she had given up one baby for adoption. And another child of hers had died. Oh, God.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And nobody knows the circumstances under which that adoption happened. You don't know if there was a death of a child and she just couldn't do it. Yeah, she was trying to do the right thing by the child. She was going through too much grief. And it's like, you just don't know. There's no backstory. Well, everything was so stigmatized back then. I mean, still is today.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And the press strongly implied that the death of one of her children was her fault. Of course. That's awesome. Yeah. In a single year, she had lost all her children.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And lacking the resources or social status of people, you know, like the Dunbars, because they were of a higher status, like social status, it was unlikely she was going to be able to regain custody of Bruce or convince anyone that this was her child. That's so sad.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
In fact, I think both of us have kind of like pulled back from social media a lot just because it's like... Oh, baby, I'm gone. And I'm pulling off really because I'm just like, it's too much all at once. It is. Like I can't keep intaking it all. Yeah. And you know what? We're not fucking meant to. No, we're not.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
She told reporters in May 1913, I believe this is my son Bruce, but I can't swear to it and I won't try to take him away from the Dunbars. I have suffered so much myself that I don't want to make anyone else suffer, but I just can't help it. I believe that is my boy. And it's, like, that's heartbreaking. Yeah, truly. And it's just, like, whoa.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah. You know? Because maybe he's just, like, and... It's like, I don't, it's like, I don't know. He's been away from her possibly since he was three. Yeah. So he might not even know. Or younger than that. So it's like, he might have very fuzzy memories. That might be why he was upset because he was like, I'm trying to place why I know this lady. But I don't know.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But I don't have the like full cognizance to say that. This is my mom.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah, like he's been gone since three and now he's five. That's like, and he's been through, who knows what he's been through. I know. And it's like, I don't know. It just, it's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot. It is. Percy and Lissy Dunbar had decided that this was Bobby Dunbar and that's how they were living. They were not going to question their decision.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Percy told reporters after the second examination that Julia had of the boys, he said, I don't blame anybody here. You get it. I really can't.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
No, that's the thing. Never. That's why when he says, I will never give him up, court order or not. I get it. You feel...
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
the desperation like you're never taking him from me again yeah oh but like and you can't you can't blame anybody for this and you also can't blame julia for being like i'm pretty sure that's my son but i don't know what to do here oh it's there's so much like this is tragic it is it's very tragic and as it turned out they would never have to the dumb bars were never gonna have to give up bobby
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
There's a very good balance that everybody needs to strike between being informed and being inundated. And it's a hard balance to get. So like you're doing fine. Yeah. If you're listening, you're doing fine. Killing it.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Okay. Julia was unable to fight the Dunbars for custody. She returned to North Carolina without her, who she believed was her son. And from that point on, he was Bobby Dunbar.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So right after this, attention turned to William Walters and his upcoming kidnapping trial. What's his deal? Yeah. It's worth keeping in mind that from the moment he was arrested, his story hadn't changed. He insisted the boy in his company was Bruce Anderson, who had been given to him by Julia Anderson, who was the boy's mother.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And Julia more or less confirmed that story, but with some slightly different details, obviously. And there were several other witnesses in North Carolina, Mississippi, and Louisiana who had seen Walters and Bruce Anderson together before the day Bobby Dunbar went missing. And they came forward to corroborate Walters' story. Oh, shit.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But the story had grown so large and so complicated since Bobby disappeared, mostly entirely because of the press, that they needed someone to be held accountable for this. The public was not going to allow this just to be blown into the wind, regardless of whether a crime had actually been committed or not. Because now William Walters is saying, I didn't kidnap him. She told me to take him.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Like he's... Which I'm like, what? I'm just so confused.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I thought he was just going for a little bit. Yeah, exactly. And it's like. This is a rigmarole of he said, she said. It's wild. So as they'd done all along, the press latched onto the kidnapping narrative and spun it into an even larger story involving a larger conspiracy to harm Percy Dunbar. Apparently, Percy Dunbar held a large amount of power in and around Opelousas.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Percy's brother Wallace told a reporter, I make no accusations, but I feel confident that Walters was merely a tool in the hands of enemies of Percy Dunbar. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. The popular theory was that a group of these men conspired to kidnap Bobby and hold him for ransom.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But I think it's like thinking, like changing your mindset to be like, okay, what is one good thing that happened to me today or one thing that I'm grateful or can celebrate today will at least give you a little bright spot in all the darkness that it feels like is everywhere.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But after several weeks, when the interest of the press and local law enforcement became, you know, kind of like faded out, they gave up on their plan and they passed the boy off to William Walters. So they're saying he's a tool, but from these guys. I don't think so.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
That's the problem here. Is that you never asked for ransom.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yep. So... There's no evidence that this theory was any more realistic or even plausible than the other theories surrounding Bobby's kidnapping. It supported the kidnapping narrative that had been built up around the case and justified everyone's actions following Walter's arrest, like basically.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And it seemed that several people were willing to play along with investigators in order to support that belief. In late May, investigators started collecting affidavits from locals who were willing to testify against Walter's
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
including Harvey Burke, who was a man from Picayune, who claimed, quote, Walters told him that the Dunbar boy was not stolen for money, but for revenge, as Dunbar had given evidence against an old crippled man and caused him to be compelled to work on the streets as a convict. Okay. It really didn't matter that statements like this one contradicted the prevailing theory of a conspiracy.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It really only mattered that it supported the belief that the boy was Bobby Dunbar and had been taken by William Walters. Yeah. Didn't really matter the details surrounding it. They were just like, oh, see, yep, he did it. And it's like, but none of these stories are adding up. People are telling 14 different stories of how he got with William Walters.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
In response to the growing number of just bonkers affidavits collected by the prosecution, Walter's lawyers, Dale and Rawls, started collecting their own affidavits that established a timeline of events and traced Walter's movements at the time of Bobby's disappearance. Okay.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
They wrote in a statement to the press, "...we have sat silently by and seen so many false statements published in the columns of the public press that we feel that the public is entitled to know the real facts on these dates." Okay. Whole day that Bobby was missing. So, boom, alibi.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
This statement confirms Walter's own story in which he told police on the day of the boy's disappearance, quote, I worked on a machine for young man Thigpen and went from there by old man Thigpen's, by Holden's, worked on a machine for Holden and doubled back and spent that night at old man Thigpen's.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So this guy like they are all like he's saying yes he was at my home working on my sewing machine. Just like he said he was. On those two days like stayed at my home that night. Back to back. And then Walters is saying I was at his home and I stayed there those two days working on that machine. It's all adding up.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
By the time Walters was extradited to Louisiana to stand trial, he was at a huge disadvantage. Like Julia Anderson, William Walters was poor. He was uneducated. He lacked the resources or knowledge to mount any kind of proper defense against his accusers, who were honestly like part of a wealthier, higher social status than he is.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
More importantly, the majority of Walters' witnesses lived in Mississippi. And while it wasn't too crazy of a distance to travel, the majority of them lacked the funds to travel to Louisiana and testify on his behalf. Yeah. So a lot of people could see that this was a disadvantage, that a lot of the people that could come and testify on his behalf couldn't get there. Yeah. So the residents of St.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Landry Parish, particularly the ones who weren't convinced of Walter's guilt, many of them offered to pay to have Walter's witnesses put up in Opelousas during the trial. Wow. That's huge. They were that convinced. Yeah.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
William Walters' trial for the kidnapping of Bobby Dunbar started in mid-April 1914 in Opelousas and was heavily attended by spectators from all over who had been following this case since Bobby disappeared. For Walters, the trial could mean life in prison or the death penalty if he was found guilty.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But for the Dunbars and Julia Anderson, it meant the opportunity to definitively prove the boy's identity and put any custody claims to rest. Now, the first witness called in the case was Percy Dunbar. He detailed the eight-month search for his son and testified that, quote, he recognized the child when he found him at Columbia.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But he did acknowledge that, quote, he recognized some of the mark on the boy, but not all. Now, following his testimony were a number of witnesses for the prosecution, including Wallace Dunbar, his brother. They all testified that the boy discovered in the company of William Walters was indeed Bobby Dunbar. But none appeared to have offered any proof beyond just, like, I recognize him.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
He's Bobby Dunbar. Which I understand that, like, what proof would you have? Yeah. As predicted, Walters' case was hampered by a lack of witnesses and a jury that was almost certainly biased against him from all the press that was covering the story. In an open letter to the people of Louisiana, one Walters supporter wrote, You have promised to give W.C. Walters a fair trial.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
The man is now on trial in a hostile community without money and without friends. While it is late, it is not too late to render the justice promised for this man, whether he be guilty or innocent. So they're just saying he deserves a fair trial, whether he's guilty or innocent. Yeah. For his part, William Walters remained very hopeful that the jury was going to see the truth.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
He couldn't rely on many of his witnesses to travel to Opelousas to testify on his behalf. But his lawyers had found several of the town's, quote unquote, prominent citizens who were willing to testify that the boy in question was not Bobby Dunbar. Oh, man. Among those who did travel to Louisiana for the trial were W.H.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Murray, a mail carrier from Barnesville, North Carolina, who testified that the boy found with Walters was Bruce Anderson. Likewise, E.M. Stevens, who was a merchant from Barnesville, also testified and told the jury he was confident the boy was Bruce Anderson.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Both proved strong witnesses for the defense, but in their cross-examination, the prosecution treated both men as hostile and, according to one reporter, quote, succeeded in rattling Murray to some extent, basically undermining his credibility. Which is shitty, because you're essentially just like prodding your witness. Yeah, it's like, just let the facts come out, man. Right.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Let the facts fall where they may and figure it out that way. On April 22nd, Julia Anderson, who had been ill for most of the trial, testified from a cot set up in the lobby of the Lacombe Hotel near the courthouse. Oh, wow. She gave a thorough history of her difficult life and again said how her child had come to be in the company of William Walters.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
She also continued to insist that the boy was her son, Bruce Anderson. And she said, if that ain't my child, he's never been born on this earth.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Sometimes you just got to – and you know what? I don't know why this is turning into this, but I think whatever. Are we a self-help podcast? Suddenly we've turned – guess what, guys? Sometimes it's just like go, if you can, like take a walk. Walk your dog. Walk your kid. Oh, hell yeah. Walk alone. Just get air. And just kind of like take a little walk. Look around. Look at the trees.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Despite the intense scrutiny and negative press Julia had received in the years leading up to the trial, even the very obviously biased press couldn't ignore the fact that, unlike the prosecution's flimsy case, Julia's story seemed to support everything Walters had said since his arrest. It is. They were telling this. It is. I was saying it did and it does. It is. It is. It is.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
They both, they're the same story. Yeah. Just with, like, little minor things that, like, I think they both are going to squabble over. It's always, like, what do they say? Like, yours, mine, and the truth. One reporter wrote in the Times Picayune, the strong point of the defense is that every bit of its testimony grooves perfectly. You love saying Picayune, don't you? I love saying Picayune.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It makes me so happy. I had to ask. I love it. I got to say it a lot in the Axeman of New Orleans. And it just stuck. It felt right.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But the trial came to an end after two weeks, and on April 25th, the jury retired for deliberation. That must have been tough. Yeah. So... Through this whole trial, the jury had heard from a lot of witnesses who supported Walter's claims and offered details that offered more than a little reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And by extension, they had to think about the identity of the boy who had been found in his company. They had made it reasonably sound to think that this might not be Bobby Dunbar. Regardless of that strong support, that was very clear. On April 27th, the jury found William Walters guilty without capital punishment.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And sentenced to life in prison for kidnapping. Now, his lawyers quickly filed an appeal, arguing, among other things, that the statute under which he'd been convicted, which is Louisiana Act No. 271, was unconstitutional and that the prosecution had far exceeded the limitations of the right to cross-examine defense witnesses.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
The Louisiana Supreme Court agreed and ordered that the verdict and sentence against Walters be set aside and that he be released from prison and, quote, discharged from further prosecution under that statute. So following this decision, the prosecution had the opportunity to try Walters again under an amended statute.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But they said it would be too expensive to do a second trial and it would be a poor use of resources. So they dropped the charges and William Walters was free to go. That's suspicious. That should tell you a little bit.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah, like, that's totally fine. Why not? We'll say on paper that you did it, but get out of here. It's like, yeah, okay. Oh, yeah, totally. That makes sense.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And then they're just like, yeah. Yeah, get out of here now. And who knows? That's the thing, too. It's like, what was up with William Walters? Why did he have this child? Is Julia telling the truth that like she never told him he could have this child? Did he kidnap this child? Who is this child? Like, what is going on? Where am I? That's the thing. Like, I don't know what the real story is.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Because he's saying, no, I didn't kidnap this child. She said I could have this child.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It sounds silly. Passion said so. But sometimes those things – exactly. Sometimes those are the things that all of a sudden make you go like, you know what? I'm lucky to be here. Yeah. Let me think of all the things that I have that I can make myself feel better about, you know, everything. Yeah. It's a grounding exercise. It is. And we're here with you.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But why, though? One. And then two, she was like, fuck. For why, though? For why, though? And then, but Julia's like, no, I didn't tell him he could have my child and I don't want him to have my child. So that gives me pause. I mean, yeah. And then the Dunbars are like, this is Bobby Dunbar. And we're like, what? Oh, man. This is a wreck.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, with the trial having come to an end and Walter is freed by a technicality, one question still remained. Who is this child? What happened to Bruce Anderson now?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Because now, okay, sure, this is Bobby Dunbar. Where the fuck is Bruce Anderson? What happened?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Like, the press and the Dunbars maintain that the boy discovered with Walters was Bobby Dunbar. I don't think so. So the majority, they were just kind of like, okay, but Julia lost a child, everybody. Like, are we really just forgetting that? Like, where's her child? Where's Bruce? Yeah. Unfortunately, the fate of anybody would really be kind of left up in the air for decades after this.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It just ended that way where the Dunbars were like, this is Bobby. And then they were like, I don't know what happened to Bruce. What about Julia? So following the trial, Julia Anderson decided to relocate to Polarville, Mississippi. And she spent time there. She had spent time there before the trial. And she found a lot of supporters there. Oh, good.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
There were a lot of people who had her back among those residents. That's good. She needed that. Years later, she married James Rawls. I could not figure out if there was a connection between the lawyer Rawls. Oh, yeah. And the couple had seven children together. Oh, hell yeah. Julia never got over the loss of her son, Bruce, and talked about him often until her death in 1940 at the age of 55.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Well, this is where it would have ended. Like, this is where that would have been the end. Like, wow, what a story. What a tale. That's crazy. But in 1999, Margaret Dunbar Cartwright died. One of Bobby's granddaughters, Bobby Dunbar's granddaughters, received a large scrapbook that had hundreds of articles about the case. And so she started digging into the family history. Margaret knew the story.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
She had had years of hearing it told by her parents and grandparents. She knew the story well, or she thought she did. But she said when she started digging deeper into the case, it became clear to her that the version of the story she'd heard her whole life might not have been as accurate as she'd been led to believe. So Margaret said of Julia, so Julia Anderson, this woman was telling truth.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
She did have a son. And my heart hurts for Julia at this point, believing that this boy is her son. You know, it's really awkward because Leslie and Julia are in the same position. They're both missing children. Which is like... This is his granddaughter? Like, for her to come out and be like, yeah, like, we should have a space in our heart here for this woman as well?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Margaret's research eventually led her to Mississippi, where she sat down with Julia's two remaining children, Hollis and Jewel. This was in 2000. It turned out that Julia's family had also heard about the case their whole lives, but a very different version of events.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Jewel's daughter, Linda, told Margaret, we knew that we had an uncle that had been taken by the Dunbar family in Opelousas, Louisiana. We always said kidnapped. We said they kidnapped him.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, from Jewel and Hollis, Margaret learned a lot about Julia, and it painted a very different picture from the woman she was known really. She had only known from, like, legend and, like, really bad, disparaging newspaper articles.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Julia, according to her children and grandchildren, was a wonderful mother and an incredibly resilient woman who attended church every Sunday and contributed to her community whenever she could. It was clear to her children that no matter how strong she appeared to be to everyone around her, which she appeared to be very strong, Julia lived her entire life with a piece missing.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And they said, Jewel said she always talked about Bruce, but she called him Bobby. She was always looking for him. Oh, wow. Now, everyone in the Rawls family knew about Bruce and the Dunbars, and they knew they lived only about 200 miles from one another. Which is not very far at all. But they also knew the Dunbars were a prominent, somewhat wealthy family with good social status.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
They didn't want to cause any trouble. So Bruce would always just be a memory to them. at least until Margaret Dunbar Cartwright began conducting her research. Margaret Cartwright spent more than four years working on her genealogical project, sometimes working at basically full time on it.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And she came away with a very intimate history, not only of her own family, but of the Rawls and Walters families as well. She went hard. The research gave her a brand new perspective on the old family legend about her grandfather's disappearance and reappearance until one day it dawned on her that the story her family had been telling her for decades could very likely be a lie.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So Margaret summarized her findings and brought the findings to the rest of the Dunbar family, her family, and suggested that they have a DNA test done to put an end to this controversy once and for all. And to her surprise, several members of the family said no. Oh, girl. Despite their objections, Margaret arranged with her cousin, Alonzo Dunbar's son. So Bobby Dunbar's brother Alonzo, his son.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
They arranged together to have a comparative DNA test done to see if there was genealogical DNA. If it came up that there was genealogical DNA, then we got Bobby. Okay. Because we're testing his brother. So we're seeing that.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, out of respect for the rest of the family, they agreed that they would only open, they were not going to open the results of this until everyone in the family was comfortable doing so. So they were going to receive these, they were going to do it, but receive the results and then wait it out until everyone felt like they wanted to know, and then they would do it together.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Unfortunately... They never reached that point. A few weeks later, it was already done for them. So Margaret said, I called to check with the laboratory and the laboratory assistant ended up blurting to me the results over the phone.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
That was not Bobby Dunbar. That was Bruce Anderson. What the fuck? Likely Bruce Anderson. That's the story that, you know, we don't have the DNA, but. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't remember the ending of this. She said the lab technician had no idea the impact of what she was saying to me. It was a shock to me. Not really the conclusion, but to hear it. So she knew.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
She was like, I have a feeling this is not Bobby. No matter what. But to hear it confirmed. Wow. And several members of the family were furious that Margaret had defied their wishes. But she felt she had a duty to inform everyone.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
No. She wanted to know. Yeah. She had every right to know. Also, fate has a funny way of working things out. Yeah. Because the DNA results weren't just confirmation of their grandfather's identity. Right. Because now they're like... Oh, my God. I'm pretty sure that that's Bruce Anderson. Right. Which would also mean, like, we're now related to Julia Anderson and her family. Oh, my God.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah, you're like... Like, that's a whole different... Those are, like, your cousins, technically. Those are now, like, your kin, essentially. Like, you know, like, that's... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy shit. Oh, my God. And it's, like, thinking of Bobby Dunbar. Like, this kid who went through all this...
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
like quote unquote Bobby Dunbar, going through all these examinations, going through the back and forth, all that shit, seeing his mother, not knowing if it's her, just living with the Dunbars, potentially being kidnapped, not having any idea what he went through with Walters.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And then to think of him, what really shocked me was to think of him as an adult who got married, who had kids, who had grandkids, and they must have heard, imagine hearing this story. You'd be like, Grandpa, what? And also, like, he must have known somewhere in his head.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
He knew. It's like, I had to have somewhere. You wonder.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
But wow, you just feel for them because it's like, wow, this is just so deeply traumatizing. Yeah. But so this wasn't just, you know, confirming their grandfather's identity. They were also, you know, vindicating Julia Anderson and William Walters. Both were called liars and accused of much worse for saying this is Bruce Anderson and not Bobby Dunbar. They were both dead by this point.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Best time to do it is right now. Get into the love. Get into the kindness. Everybody be cool, man. Just don't be all like uncool. Just be cool. Just be cool. Don't be all like uncool. And you know, this story that I have for you today. Is it uncool? Pretty uncool. But at the end of it. It does have, no, it's still a little, there's a lot of like unknowns in this.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And to think of like Julia seeing her child and not being able to have him. And then thinking of the Dunbars, because I, like, Lessie and Percy just wanting this to be their child. Yeah. That they were missing. It's like, oh, my God. There's no win. And when you look up pictures, you can see why there was, like, a doubt.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I'm not saying why, like, in a family it would be confusing, but I'm saying from, like, an outside perspective, I can see the resemblance. Yeah. And Hollis Rawls, Julia Anderson's child, said, we have no hard feelings against nobody of what has happened. Because back in those days, I'm sure they thought they were doing the right thing.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And if I had been back in those days, I might have felt the same way in a way about things like that.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah. But if Bobby Dunbar was really Bruce Anderson, then what happened to Bobby Dunbar? Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
We go all the way back to the beginning. Yep. And Margaret speculated, I think he fell off the Swayze Lake Bridge and was eaten by an alligator and died. That's the most likely scenario. And honestly, the truth is, we will probably not ever know. I never like to say that, but we might never know. I mean, how would we? What happened to Bobby Dunbar on August 23rd, 1912? That is a haunting tale.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
The end of that story shook me to my fucking core.
Morbid
Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah. And they're just like. That just had to chill down my fucking spine. They're adorable little boys. Oh my God. Like both of them are just such little cuties.
Morbid
Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
oh god and just the thing that julia died not ever having that piece of her put back together like not hearing like this is you were right yeah i mean you hope wherever wherever she's hanging out that she got to see it wow what a tale Or maybe whatever you believe in, maybe they're reunited somewhere.
Morbid
Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I don't know. I like that. Yeah. In another life. In another life, in another timeline, another realm somewhere. That's what I believe. I feel like there's so many other lives. Yeah, there's another realm going on. I don't know what it's all about, but I'm sure it's there somewhere. I hope I don't have IBS in that realm. Well, I hope so too. I'm just saying. I'm just putting out my wishes now.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Just saying. Just letting you know what I hope is going down in the other realm. What do you hope? I hope I don't have migraines in the other realm. There you go. I'd really love to get rid of those. We'd like to get rid of our ailments in the other realm. That'd be pretty sick. All right. Yeah. Wow.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Some of them become more known. Yeah. But then there's still a mystery at the end. That's kind of fun. I am sorry to say that I'm going to leave you slightly, slightly open to some things, but there's going to be a couple of things that you're like, whoa.
Morbid
Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
Morbid
Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah, they did. You're right. Shout out to Karen in Georgia. Shout out to Karen in Georgia. This is The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar. Now, again, normally I don't love to do children's cases because it bums me out a lot. This one's bummed me out for sure. But there was so much like shenanigans in this case that it felt like an important story to tell. Yeah. For sure.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So this goes all the way back to 1912. Whoa. Yeah. We're really back there. Whoa. On August 23rd, 1912, Percy and Lessie Dunbar traveled with their two sons, Alonzo and Bobby. They had lived in Opelousas. I looked it up how to say it. I hope I said it correctly. Opelousas, Louisiana. They were traveling to a nearby Swayze Lake. There you go.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
They had planned to spend the day there, do some fishing, some camping, just a nice little family outing. That night, the family was sleeping in their tent and their four-year-old Bobby apparently woke up and left the tent for some unknown reason.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
uh apparently he wandered away from the campsite but nobody saw him do this this is just assuming because he wasn't there yeah um the next morning when lessee and percy woke up they found bobby missing which i literally can't imagine what they felt in that moment but waking up to find your kid missing must be in the wilderness yeah fuck that so they of course they panicked and started frantically searching the area around the tent for him
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now at the time, Swayze Lake was really more of an undeveloped swamp than an actual recreation area. It was, according to author Tal Macthenia, I hope I'm saying that name right, It was apparently, quote, teeming with alligators and surrounded by dark, thick woods. So not great. So their search was going to be very dangerous and very slow and very difficult. All of the above.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And when they weren't able to find Bobby very quickly, Percy went into town to get help. And within hours, there were dozens of men that had arrived at the lake to help search for Bobby. By that night, about 150 men had joined the search party, including a group of divers who searched the lake. Wow. Which, again, was more of a swamp. It was more of a swamp. With fucking alligators. Oh, my God.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah. And these are divers that they got in here in 1912. That's crazy. Now, unfortunately, because the terrain was so hard to maneuver and it was so dense, so thickly settled, it was super, super slow, this process of looking for him. According to one account, quote, the cane breaks and undergrowth at Swayze Lake are so thick that it's impossible to see 10 feet from the trail. Wow.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And many of the searchers really quickly began speculating, like, we're not going to find this kid. Yeah. They were like out loud being like, I don't think we're going to find him. Yeah. Which must have been horrifying to hear. Nearby, a smaller group of men actually dynamited the stream for more than a mile in order to bring anything to the surface that was under the water.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
I like dynamited as a verb. Right? It really is. But nothing worked. Nothing found. There was no sign of Bobby. These poor parents. They had searched the area for 18 hours and they found no sign of him. And Percy and Lessie reluctantly returned to Opelousas while what remained of the search party continued to comb the area. Oh, that's so sad. But they had to bring their other son home.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
morbid morbid morbid morbid morbid and the world is falling apart around us everywhere everywhere yeah all of it um and i i assume when this comes out that the world will still be falling apart around us so this is pretty relevant yeah um yeah everything sucks but you know what we're gonna be just fine because we're all gonna pull together community as a community yeah you know
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Can you imagine you just like go out for a cute family outing? With two children and you come back with one. Like that is beyond. Unthinkable.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, in the days after this, a smaller group continued to search the area. So people weren't giving up on this. Several divers did their best to search through the murky waters, but they never found even the slightest bit of evidence that Bobby had even been there. By the third day, many of them had given him up for dead.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Basically reasoning there was very little chance that a four-year-old could survive the elements alone for that long. Yeah. Much less in an area where there were gators. There were all so much wildlife there. Yeah. That was not going to be good. The main theory at the time was that Bobby had wandered away from the camp in the night and fallen into the lake and drowned.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And but some were holding out hope that he was still alive, saying that maybe, you know, maybe he's still alive because if he had drowned, then we probably would have found some evidence like a scrap of clothing, something which like, I don't know, with gators. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, within a week, news of Bobby's disappearance had reached the wider public, and it quickly became a big fascination with the press. One reporter wrote, never in the history of this parish has an incident created such profound interest and such profound sorrow. Which I think is a really great way of saying it. The idea that a child could simply disappear without a trace.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
That was enough of a mystery and enough of like a horrifying situation to think about. That was enough to grab the attention of the public very quickly. But there was also this really like macabre angle that the press couldn't ignore. One reporter asked, is little Robert at the bottom of Swayze Lake? And then this is like... The way that he wrote this, I'm like, okay. I mean, immediately.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Like, that's already jarring. Oh, it gets worse. Is little Robert at the bottom of the Swayze Lake? Is his little body the victim of the rapacious appetite of alligators, loggerhead turtles, garfish? Or has the little fellow been gnawed to death by mosquitoes, gnats in the jungles of the Atchafalaya Swamp?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Yeah, novels, fiction, you know? Nothing true. Use that prose for good. We don't need you using that flowery prose for someone's four-year-old. Yeah, real life situation. That they are holding out hope that they're alive. Jesus. I feel like reading that, I hope his family never read that. No. Because what the fuck? Oh, God. Yeah.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, this was the moment that it became clear that the press was going to be a massive figure in this case. Okay. And they are. Yeah. A big figure. Probably the biggest, to be quite honest.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Not in this case. And so, so hurtful. Not in this case. Yeah. Bobby's disappearance coincided with a strange period in American journalism, actually. It was guided way more by, like, how much you could sell and how much readership you could gain than any kind of, like, journalistic ethics code or anything like that. Any kind of integrity. Any kind of, like, seeking out the truth kind of situation.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
It was... That's big business. That is big business. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Exactly. It's never like, can I actually give you the truth or dig something up? It's like, this is the most salacious version of the story. Who gives a shit if it's real? Let's make money off it. Because it's going to get people to pick it up.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
So as a result, newspapers frequently contradicted one another, embellished stories, and in some cases just flat out lied in articles they published because it sold. That's insane. They were tabloids. That's crazy.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Support local businesses. Support local businesses. And remember, you do not have to open your door to ICE unless they serve you a warrant. So just know that. Anything else fun that's happening?
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Be like, yeah, this is what I think happened. And you're seeing all these newspapers contradicting themselves because this one's saying, it's just who, which story the different newspaper grabbed onto and said, I think that our readers will grab this one. Yeah, exactly. They didn't care, like, should we check the sources? Nah. Like, let's just go with this one. That's good.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Now, for example, in early reports, Bobby had disappeared from the camp in the middle of the night while Percy and Lessie were asleep, which is what happened. Days later, though, a new story appeared in several of the papers. And in this story, Bobby had attempted to follow his father down to the lake, but Percy had turned around and told him to return to camp, which was a mile away.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
And he was last seen wandering alone back to the campsite. It's like, why make that up? Well, this distinction, like, to some people at first might seem like kind of trivial and just like, okay, that's stupid. But the latter account of this story, it opens the door to many more scary possibilities, first of all. But it also kind of attempted to place some of the blame. On the dad.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
Even vaguely on Percy for sending his four-year-old a mile back to the campsite by himself. Right. And it's like, that's fucked up. It is fucked up. Because it's like these people are going through a hell that you can't.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
even comprehend right like what the now while many among the search party and in the press had given up bobby for dead at this point there were still those that hung on to hope that he could still be alive somewhere in opelousas a small group of residents actually fundraised a thousand dollars as a reward to anyone who returned bobby alive and unharmed to his family And think, that's 1912.
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Episode 645: The Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar
That's a lot of money. And that's like the community doing that. That's not just the family. And in response to the community support, Percy and Lessie published a letter of thanks in the local papers. They said, we are well aware that all has been done which human effort can accomplish. And it is a comfort to know that our country is with one of the kindest, hardest peoples on earth.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I don't know if that really should be part of your entire personality. And, like, clothes, style. Like, your likability is based on whether you're, like, obsessing over boys. And your appearance. And, like, makeup and shit. It's like, uh-oh.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
See, John and I usually like go really hard to like make the kids like a cute little Valentine's thing. I feel like when you have kids, it becomes more about that.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I have no idea what this case is, by the way. So I'm just like fully riding this way. I literally don't know what happens. I've never heard of this. Just putting that out there. So if I'm sitting here being like, good for her. I don't know if she does something later. I don't know what happens.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah, I just wanted to be clear that I'm like, I don't know what happened. No, honestly, good.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
like the holiday yeah and it becomes it becomes like super fun again because like it becomes like super kid again yeah that's always fun i know the magic of all the holidays like yeah obviously like christmas is like insane when you have kids but even just like valentine's day and saint patrick's day even yeah like we so i always um like our bathroom that they brush their teeth in that's like essentially like you know the kid bathroom yeah it like because they've demolished it oh do you decorate it
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Synchronized swimming. Synchronized swimming? I could be wrong. Maybe it is called water ballet. Artistic swimming. So yeah, I think it used to be called synchronized swimming. Yeah. But I think artistic swimming sounds better for sure. It definitely does.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Oh, boy. Which is shitty. Well, it's also hard because he spent a lot of time, her life, basically making her feel she's not good enough for him. And now he's saying, this guy isn't good enough for you. And she's like, what? I thought you didn't even give a shit about me. She's like, what do you mean? Like, where's my standing here? Yeah. It's just a conflicting message.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Exactly. Like, you can't even pick a guy.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
He's going to let me live.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I decorate it for all the holidays. So like, and I don't go like, you know, it's not like I go nuts. Like I just get stuff like some little banners and like, you know, sometimes I'll throw like a balloon in there. Like that dollar section stuff. Yeah, like the dollar section has a lot of cool stuff. So like it's super easy to be able to do it.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Or like Michael's has a lot of stuff in case you guys are thinking of wanting to do it. Yep. The little things are what I literally just put a banner up that says be mine and some of this like tinsel like this is like red tinsel. Cute. And then I think I had like a little heart like stuffed animal on the counter. I love that. And just in their bathroom. So we do it for like everything.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Well, and it sounds like she had so many influential teachers in her life. You can tell when a kid has great teachers because they immediately are like, I want to be a teacher.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
happens exactly my kids have like this fucking amazing like the older girls have an amazing fucking teacher oh she's a queen she's a goddamn queen i wish we could like literally say her name but we obviously i would love to say her name just because she's so amazing but she's she's amazing and they one of my kids is like i want to be a teacher like i love that and it's like that's a sign oh absolutely it is the right thing yeah
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
teachers you're one who says that would be the best teacher ever oh my god yeah she's so patient yeah and sweet especially with like oh my god yeah i could go on for like an hour also if you're looking for anybody to follow on tiktok we haven't done a tiktok follow like go mr williams mr williams on tiktok his name is tell williams we love mr williams with our entire heart and soul he is a
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
fucking phenomenal follower yeah a follower follow and and he's a preschool teacher and also a therapist yeah and he does it all he does it all he really does he also does savage reads he does savage reads he's hilarious i remember watching him in the beginning of tiktok and being like i want him to be my child's preschool teacher like he was he's so good and you can tell he cares so much pre-k pause pre-k pause he always starts with that
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
go follow him because he deserves all the follows. He certainly does. He's Mr. Williams on TikTok. And you will not regret it. You will not. He's hilarious. Even if you don't have kids, great follow. Exactly. He's a great follow no matter what. Yeah.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like we try to like just throw like a little banner in their bathroom just to make like the morning exciting when they brush their teeth.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Well, you wonder what, yeah. It probably leaves some kind of mark. I fortunately did not go through it. I know. I know people who did, though, and I can't. If you're going through it, I'm really sorry. Yeah. You'll get on the other side, I promise. It's one of my biggest fears, like, when I do end up having kids. Well, people don't take it, like, I feel like it doesn't get taken seriously a lot.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
When you try to get help for it. It's scary. It's very scary.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It's so easy. Yeah. And it's, they love it. Yeah. And we do like, you know, we do a leprechaun toast for that. Like where we just put like Lucky Charms and like frosting on toast. Yeah, that's fun. So they get to have like a wild ass breakfast. That's the shit I can't wait for. It's fun. And then like I stayed up until 2 a.m. last night making, because I got a cricket.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah, like truly negative, like he's abusive or something like that.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
By the sounds of it, I'm just like, you know, don't care what everybody else thinks, Jim. I feel like he needs like a high five. I want to take him out for a burger.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I'm like, you know what, Jim? Like there's these things called book nooks that you can make. I think you would love them. There you go. Sit down. He strikes me as somebody.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
The very minimal amount I know about Jim, I think he would fuck heavy with a book nook. And I'm saying that as somebody who fucking loves book nooks. I sit down and do them at night. I love that. That's not a read on book nooks. No, it's not.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
This bitch is a cricket enthusiast. It is fun as fuck. When you figure out how to do it, it is so satisfying. And so I stayed up until 2 a.m. I found they had like the girls already had like plain pink shirts, like long sleeve shirts that they never really like grab or they're just sitting in their drawer. And I was like, oh, I can bedazzle these. Let me make this a shirt you want to wear. Yeah.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
gonna work and maybe he didn't want a divorce so it probably got kind of gnarly then messy yeah but it's like when she won't even say like a bad thing about the guy it's like yeah feels like he just wasn't a bad guy that's what i think didn't really work yeah they just weren't meant to be i don't think they were meant to be no it doesn't sound like that and like obviously there are relationships where like it's your high school sweetheart and it works out but like for sure not all the time but it's a tough one and the older you get and the more life changes you you can change a little bit with this yeah yeah
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
And I'm sorry. I think about how rad it must be to be a grandparent all the time. All the time. Because, like, I love being a parent. Yeah. Like it's fun. It's obviously it's like hard. Well, that's the thing. It's so fucking fun. But when you're a grandparent, you don't even have the hard stuff. It's being a parent without any of the responsibilities.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
So it's just really like, you know, which I guess there's your answer right there. It's like if you like being a parent, my goodness, you're going to love being a grandparent because it takes away any of the stress that you even were fine with. But it doesn't sound like he loved being a parent. But he did not like being a parent. But it's like, damn. Yeah.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Sat up until 2 a.m. making them little Valentine's Day shirts, and they were psyched this morning. Aw. So it was, like, and then I made their lunches all, like, heart-themed. Shut up. Like, I got these little heart, like, cutters for their sandwiches, and they make them, like, into Uncrustables, so they'll, like, seal off the sandwich. They're really cool.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
You can find them on, like, anywhere, really. I fuck so heavy with an Uncrustable. And it's fun to make your own because you can make it different shapes and stuff. Yeah, you can put whatever you want in there. It just makes like a fun lunch. And then like I just got some like heart-shaped shit and like pink stuff and all that.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I was like, okay. It's a backhanded compliment. I kept wondering if you could keep up with the pace. Like, okay. That would be my, all right. That's very condescending. It also... Oh, we get it. Like, oh, yeah, you're so quick-witted. You're such a hot shot. Like, I wonder if you can keep up with me. Oh, fuck off. Yeah. Very different time. I don't love that.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
No, I didn't do that this morning because I did a trail mix instead of strawberries today. But it was like a pink-themed trail mix. Hell yeah, brother. Yeah, it was fun. Let's go. It's a lot of fun. And then John usually, and I always forget, he'll get me flowers. Oh, yeah.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
All right. Like I saw this coming, but like I would have talked you out of it.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah, he is. That's fucking molasses thick. Yeah. That he's laying it on. It's giving.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like he'll have them delivered and then I end up forgetting and being like, oh, we don't, because we're always like, we don't do anything. I know. Like, why'd you do that? And he's like, I have to. No, it's relatable.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. Usually it's as you get older and as you like kids come into the picture or even if they don't, I feel like it just becomes one of those, like, it's a nice day. Yeah, it's just fun.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I know this whole letter writing thing. I'm like, wow, this is so much more like passionate. Yeah. And dramatic. Yeah.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
She just raised her eyebrows at me and Mikey, and Mikey is shimmying right now. Which is exciting.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. This just doesn't sound like this doesn't sound good.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
No matter what, you both have to be on the same page with what your relationship is.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Guys, I stopped getting Botox. Ash makes expressions.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. Yeah. So like it comes off as this very like, wow, like they're so forward thinking and they're kind of like removing boundaries to make this work for them. And it's like, but it's not.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It's not working for half of them. You know, like one half of them is completely compromising while the other one is not at all.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
This feels like desperation.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It's actually, it would be awful if they weren't like this. It's like that is like the most... Like, desperate. Please just believe me that this is totally fine and that I would hate this any other way. To say, like, somebody who's selfish is the best kind of person to be around. No. They're actually, they're the worst kind of person to be around. That's just, like, diabolically untrue.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. And I just, you feel, it really is like... It's like a form of Stockholm syndrome.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
There's a lot of women. I was going to say, and on the flip side, there's a lot of women who are super selfish.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Hell yeah. Well, we have, you know, this is an exciting day and bitch. It's been an exciting week or two. Yeah. So I'm without words for what's happening this week. Retweet. So the last episode, you guys probably noticed that Andrew McMahon was on the show. Fucking wild. Andrew McMahon from Something Corporate, Jack's Mannequin, Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. And I think I'm looking at it probably, he's not looking at it through an emotional lens. No. So it's not a lot of work. No. Because there's no heavy lifting in the emotional department. And he's kind of getting everything he needs out of it. Having his cake and eating it too. So it's like, for him, it's really not a lot of work. He's not carrying on full-blown love affairs with people.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
You know what I mean? It sounds like. No, he kind of is. Or like... His version of a love affair, which is just, to me, it sounds like the flowery language and everything kind of comes naturally to him. Like he's a, the charm thing, like.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like he knows what he needs to do to keep it going for as long as he wants to keep it going.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Because it's pure speculation because, you know, I don't know him.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It's like he... Because I'm like, is he just trying to like abide by the quote unquote open relationship of it all and be like, you need to know when I am becoming. Because who knows if they did talk about a thing. And again, pure speculation. Possibly had a conversation. Maybe they had a conversation where it was like, if you are getting serious about someone, I need to know. Yeah.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like you need to tell me. So maybe he's like, I'm getting the most serious. That's absolutely true.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Some relationships, like these kind of toxic- They're addictive. Style relationship, that's the thing. They become addictive. Yes. And you become addictive- To both parties. Yeah. To the- The drama. The back and forth and the drama and the love bombing when you make up and how everything's great. And then the ups and downs become this ride that you just can't take yourself off of. Yeah, exactly.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
All of the above. You know, posters when I was 16 in my room. Yes, those as well. I have a Something Corporate tattoo. It was my first tattoo I ever got. He came here to the stew. We had such a blast with him. He flew from California here. We went out to dinner. We got to hang at the studio. He was amazing. Shout out to Andrew. He's just like a pal. I know.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Anyway. I just know this. I know this. Yeah. I know this relationship. Yeah. I'm listening to it and I'm like, ugh. It's sad. And the desperation on the other side, that's rough.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. I mean, she grew up with somebody who was a man.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Who never made her feel like she was enough and who she had to always constantly... beg and fight for the attention or any kind of like pat on the back or any kind of compliment. And it's like, it does carry into, you know?
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
And sometimes you don't even need to have that kind of upbringing or anything like that to fall into that. No. You know what I mean?
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Thinks I'm the bee's knees and always told me I was the bee's knees and like was great and is great and remains great and will be great forever. And I still dated somebody and there was a similar kind of relationship where it was like I was constantly trying to hold on to this awful thing.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Which was literally like, I have control of the situation kind of thing. So it's like, you don't even need to have that background. But when you have that background, I'm sure it's... If that was... And I'm only thinking of my own thing. Yeah. If that was hard to get out of for me, who has no... psychological reason to be trapped in that way of thinking.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
To have a background and a trauma that builds upon that, that's keeping you there, must be like being in quicksand.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It's difficult. But it's hard, yeah. It is because, I mean, I didn't understand, like my John, I didn't understand why he was being so kind.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It can be a little jarring at first because you're like.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Well, that's why I'm like, I'm like, everyone listening. Yeah. You deserve it. You deserve it. If you think you don't deserve it and you're being like, this person's too nice. I don't deserve this. You deserve it.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
So shut up. Yeah. Everybody deserves some kind of love. Shut up.
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Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like, immediately, I was like, wow, I do feel like I've known you since I was 16. You kind of have. And I've known him since I was six, if we're going by that logic. Yeah, it was great. It was very funny because, like, he was telling us that he listens to the show, so, like, hopefully you're listening now. Hi, Andrew. Because it was very... Like, surreal to me. Oh, yeah.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Well, yeah, because I just feel like it's just necessary, man.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
We're trying to, I'm trying to bring more positivity. More light. Around everywhere. Yeah. You know? We need it. The world needs it. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I know. We're really going off. It's like old school.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I was just, I was like, they were so wily back then. Like, they were just like... Just do meth about it. And when you think about it, this is the 70s.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
We're all thinking of it in like 2000. I think of everything, yeah, 50 years ago. Yeah, damn. Because I always think the 90s were 10 years ago. So it's like this is hard for me to comprehend.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Because I was such a big, like, something corporate fan when I was younger, and I still am, and Jax Mannequin, Andrew McMahon in the wilderness. And it's funny that, like, to be in that phase of life and then to sit with him and talk about being parents together is... Like, surreal in a way I can't describe.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like, 16-year-old Elena, if you told her you're going to sit in your house or at dinner with Andrew McMahon and talk about parent shit together, I'd be like, what are you talking about? Like, I'd be like, what? Cannot compute. Like, what are you talking about? It was just, it was really lovely, and he was lovely, and it was a great experience. Yeah, and it was a fun episode. And we appreciated it.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Oh, damn. I'm like, girls, why do you want this? Yeah, it's like, girls, that's when you do what I did. You band together. You gang up. You get those girlies together.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
A very fun episode. We talked about Dancing Plagues. If you haven't listened to it. Go check it out. It's, you know, it's interview and it's also we talk about some like funny, like crazy Dancing Plagues of history. And he did an interview. He had great answers. Oh, absolutely. It's a great episode. Inviting nuns. And we talk about fucking the devil a lot. So you should definitely listen to it.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Wow. Yeah. Also, what are sex lessons? I don't know.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
That's not even a good like, hey, you should take some sex lessons. Like, I'd be like, that's stupid.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
That's all I can think of.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I guess so. Maybe there's more. But what a bad... That feels like something you say when you ran out of... You didn't plan ahead. Yeah. You didn't plan your insult in. Yeah. Why don't you take some sex lessons? Stupid. Where? Okay.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
You gotta end the relationship then. If he's taken another woman's side, he's declared. You've heard all you need to hear. Move forward. He quiet quit. He kind of, yeah, he absolutely, he like loudly quit. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I liked your version though. What did it say? Rotodile? Rolodex? Oh, we had a Rolodex at my office house.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
You know, like a regular episode. Regular episode. Doing butt stuff with the devil or fucking the devil. So that was fucking amazing. And I hope you guys enjoyed that episode a lot. And, you know, hopefully someday we have him back on because it was a blast. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Fuck that. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing's worth this, everybody. It's not. Nothing and no one is worth this. Yeah. No. Feces on my clothes, I'm out. Yeah. That's where it is. Personally, mine is way before that, but your boundaries should be there. Yeah. That should be really when you say, you know what? We did what we had to do. We said what we had to say. This is not fine anymore.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
If it's getting to a point where shit is getting smeared on my clothes, I'm going to go. Rule of thumb. To a point of feces, I'm not. Peace out. I'm not. I am ride or die until feces become involved.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Andrew, if you're listening, you do have to come back.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I feel like the pressure cooker is... It's strategically placed. It's on. And I think it's coming. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Tell me there's not a ton of feces here.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
So weird that you joined us for our bonus episode that's going to come out tomorrow on March 7th. And it's going to be a fucking banger. Oh, oh. Please stay with us even though we said feces a lot. Feces is better.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Not our hands. He's like, no, thank you. He's like, I think I'll not come back.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
If you guys have seen the movie Talk to Me, which if you haven't, go watch it because it's an Australian horror film and it's fucking brilliant. A24, right? I think it is, yeah. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Right? I was like, wait. There's a hand in it that is like a main plot device of the movie. And we have the hand in the office. Yeah, it's fine. And we've been having people sign it.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like we had Bridget sign it when she came. And we were going to have Andrew sign it because we're trying to have all our guests sign it. And we forgot. So now you have to come back. So we'll set that up. You don't have a choice. We'll have our people call your people. So that happened. That was amazing. And then we have... Another amazing thing happening.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
You guys are getting a bonus episode this week. In fact, tomorrow it's coming out wide to everybody. Isn't it wide and? It's a simultaneous release, so everyone's getting it at the same time. It's a bonus episode on top of our two episodes. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy fucking Valentine's Day, because guys... Well, I guess that'll be later, but... This is a fucking banger of an episode.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. You're gonna have to see if I survive this one, because... That's all we can say. I'm very excited to record it. We're gonna be recording it in the next few days, and...
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
it's a big deal so like be on the lookout if you're listening to this episode right now set an alarm know that tomorrow in the future tomorrow a banger of an episode is being released to everybody as a bonus big things are happening it's our gift to you and also a gift to me
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
She did not go home. Yeah, I did not. I went big. It's wild. So be on the lookout for that. It's very exciting. Very awesome. This has been a week that I can't quite grasp. I don't think you ever will.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Mary Margaret just seems like a good girl name.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I love Valentine's Day. Not because, like, we do anything, really.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I was going to say none of those things sound good at all. No. But go off.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I also think that's such, like, get it together. Yeah. Whenever adults, like, go off the handle at the smallest thing, I'm like... I don't know. Children can figure it out. So why can't you? We don't tolerate that from children. So I don't know why we're tolerating it from adults.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Yeah. Just like figure out emotional regulation, man.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
Like, his feelings of unfulfillment kind of thing.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
It's so sad that, like, children just have this natural thing of loving their parents, even when their parents are, like, so awful to them. You know what I mean? Like, it's like... It's almost sad.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
I hate that idea of kids like trying to measure up to each other. Yeah. In a family.
Morbid
Episode 651: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 1)
She's being programmed to. Yeah. That's her whole life is trying to please a man.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 plus of the world's best. That's why Wirecutter calls it an invaluable gift. Gift unlimited learning. Learn from any Masterclass instructor anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even an audio mode. And the classes really do make a difference.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
88% of members feel that Masterclass made a positive impact on their lives. I use this, and you should too. I've been taking a class about the power of storytelling with LeVar Burton. I'm talking reading Rainbow, ladies and gents. And also a creative writing class with Margaret Atwood. Yes, you heard that right.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It has been such an amazing thing to hear from some of the best about what their process is and to get inspired by honestly straight up icons. It really gets the creative juices flowing. I highly, highly recommend it. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash morbid. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash morbid.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Masterclass.com slash morbid. So dad is on the phone and has a task for us to complete, and we must follow his instructions exactly as they are given to us. These instructions were as follows. Call the Pizza Hut in Lakeside. Ask for the manager. Explain we are the daughters of one of the officers that just hauled ass out of the restaurant. Request for delivery to the following address.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Don't actually remember it, so let's just say 1234 Crazy Street in East County, San Diego. stress the fact that whomever delivers the pizza is not to pass the first patrol car on the block under any circumstances. That part was extremely important.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now at this point, my sister and I are following these instructions to the very letter. As this whole situation is freaking us out big time. Everything about it was just off and strange. An hour, maybe two, go by and dad calls again. Pissed. He said he gave us specific instructions and they needed to be followed and they were not. Oh.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now he has a quote-unquote mess to deal with and doesn't need this today. Now we're not only confused, but we're also scared. Our dad only yelled at us if we broke something while fighting in the house, so getting chewed out by him was not standard operating procedure. We continue to wait for our dad to get home, all while trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Several more hours go by.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Finally, our dad gets home from work and apologizes to us, saying he's sorry for yelling. That's good parenting.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That he stopped by the Pizza Hut prior to coming home and spoke with the manager and that she told him we did follow his exact instructions and that she is very sorry her dumbass employee can't follow simple instructions. All right. The specific instruction of not to go past the first patrol car. Why was this important, you might ask?
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Well, it turns out the delivery address was a few doors down from a murder scene. Uh-oh. So this is what went down. On this Christmas Eve, 1991... Also, this is the most early 90s parenting ever. Truly. While sitting down for lunch, a call came out over the radio of shots fired, man down. This is when my dad and his fellow patrol officers on duty ran out of the restaurant to get to the scene.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Once they arrived, they find out that two tweaked out people had been fighting out front of one of the houses on Crazy Street. At some point, person A went into his house and left person B outside in the yard. Person B was not done fighting. He was like...
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
He said, I still got energy and found something to stand on to look through a front window of person A's house where he was met with a shotgun blast straight to the face. Oh, my God. Holy shit.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Fell straight back into the yard, missing most of his head and face, human debris all over the front yard. Why the upset phone call, you may ask? Well, the delivery driver did not follow instructions, walked right past the first patrol car, under the yellow tape, and right up to my dad. Oh, no.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
When my dad sees him, he asks in a very direct, forceful manner, what the fuck do you think you're doing? Get behind the tape now. Stupid delivery kid makes some joke about how word is this is a crime scene and that someone might get shot, might have got shot. And my dad responded by saying, yeah, that guy right there. And pointed to the dead dude a few feet away.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Get out of here. Who do you think you are? Whatever you see is your own fault at this point.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
At this point, the delivery driver almost dropped the pizza. Started screaming, throwing up, and basically having a massive panic attack. Which is the thing our dad, quote, didn't have time for right now. In all fairness, dumbass should have followed directions. And what asshat thinks it's okay to cross under yellow crime scene tape because, quote, I want to see what's going on. Yeah.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Keep it weird, my dudes, but not so weird you still want lunch while working a murder scene, and therefore have your kids get you delivery. P.S. It was pizza for all the law enforcement officers on scene, not just our dad. They're a whole group of weirdos that I've known my whole entire life. Lord help us. What a 90s tale. That was an amazing 90s tale. I've never heard of a more 90s father.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That was great. And I love your dad. Oh, man, that's great. I bet your dad is awesome. Yeah, definitely. As he got older, he got awesome. Yeah, definitely.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Welcome to Dibrom. Dibrom. This is different. We switch places, you know? It's Manic Monday instead of Freaky Friday. Yeah, it's Nuts Monday. Oh, this is uncomfortable. We hate it. Everyone around us has a different opinion.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh, and hearing the clanging of dishes while the lights are pitch black. Yeah, that's horrifying. No, no. Makes me think of The Sixth Sense. Yeah. That scene.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I walked downstairs and Sydney barked and growled at me and ran at me like, who are you intruder walking into my house? Because I don't, let's be honest. You don't look like. I don't look like Ash. I don't look like you. I look like various things.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That is terrifying. I love that. I love that. I love that that was a literal ghost Hanukkah party in the middle of the night. Yes. Like they were literally like, hey, hey, just can I come in?
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I love just... Never figured out what that was. No chalance to be found.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Yeah, that scares me. I love a shared hallucination slash dream. We both, have you ever had one?
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I know, you would think it would be the most spooky. Yeah, right? I feel like the... Oh, no. Oh, girl. I feel like the extremes of...
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
of the house are always the spookiest yeah the bottom and the top yes things in the middle are usually just what they are yeah you know just like the meat of the meat the meat of the sandwich the bread is the scariest yeah the haunt hoagie that's the meat in the middle that your brain just did some shit that was i liked that the haunted hoagie yeah tm we're putting it on a shirt someday yeah i like it someday
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
There's nothing, Evelina. No. Ash even put bronzer on me. Yeah, of course they did. For the first time.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I love that she's just telling her husband this. She's like, I'm going to be real. I'm going to be Frank. I'm going to be Francis with you right now. That's not dad. It's never my dad. It's never going to be my dad. Never was my dad.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It's me, Margaret. It's me, Emma. Good vibes, though. I like the good vibes. I love that a lot. That was a great story. I love it. Emma, you rule. And that was amazing. I'm trying to see. I'm going to move past Christmas to another holiday. What's the holiday? Just because this one involves a foot. So I feel like it's necessary.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Listener tales that time we found a foot on the 4th of July. Okay. I mean, how can I not go to that one? All right. Well, let's go to this. Hey, weirdos. I'm Nicole. And yes, you can use my name. Shout out to my cousin Kayla, who is a fellow listener and also on the weirdest river trip of our lifetime. I mean, I really hope it doesn't get any weirder than this.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
okay first a little background every year my family floats the river near my grandparents house for the fourth of july that's fun for those of you who aren't from the midwest me floating the river usually involves putting in upstream on a local river with some type of flotation device or small boat you get to enjoy the beautiful scenery typically hot weather and at least for my friends and family partying your way downstream until you reach your predetermined destination
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
All right. Don't worry. We always designate a driver or have a pickup ready. Don't drink and drive, my friends. Yeah.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Great, great. Great, great. Our family usually uses a combination of canoes tied together, inflatable tubes, and kayaks. Oh, that sounds fun. That does sound fun. This particular trip for normal paddlers would be three to four hours with short breaks. That sounds like a lot. My arms hurt right now from that.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Me too. However, when 90% of the adults are highly intoxicated and you're stopping at every sandbar for pee breaks, we usually expect six to seven hour trip. No, no. We had roughly 20 people on this year's trip with kids, seven kids under eight years old, one to two coolers in each canoe, stereo hooked up and old rock jams blasting. This is my happy place.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Most of my favorite summer memories have been made in this section of the We're going to Google it. We're going to Google this one.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Yeah. Hold up. Hold up. We're going to have Google say it to you.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
So, most of my favorite summer memories have been made in this section of the Makoketa River. Makoketa. Makoketa. Quite honestly, this included, and I feel this is a safe space for me to say that given what happens next.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
So back to the trip in question. About 45 minutes into our seven-hour float, we all have a solid buzz on when my cousin, floating ahead of the group in his kayak, notices a boot floating just beneath the surface of the water. The water is muddy, but pretty clear this time of year. He tells my brother, who's slightly closer to what he assumes is just a stuck boot.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Thinking he had just found a random shoe, my brother grabs the boot out of the water, and I shit you not, there is an entire tibia fibula covered in a dirty sandy sock sticking straight out of the tied boot.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
followed up with that's what you said you were like nailed it you did you nailed it nailed it nailed it so um oh my god that's oh my god that's crazy what the fuck shocked at the sight of a human fucking leg my brother dropped the boot back into the water not today and honestly i can't believe him we floatin
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The two guys stared at each other for a minute and then yelled for our parents who were in a group of canoes tied together nearby. And all the commotion, the music gets turned down. They were like, turn down the tune. They were like, we need to see. And my mom yells to me that they found a foot.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now, at this point in time, I was in my own world about 20 feet behind the group talking with my friend. When I finally figured out what she was saying, I was positive this was just my family playing a joke on me. I would think so, too. Me, too. Of course I paddled over with my kayak to see what was going on, because even if it was a joke, I needed to see what they were talking about.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
As I'm paddling downstream, I spot this dirty boot floating along near the canoes. After making sure my five-year-old wasn't in eyesight, oh my god, I pulled the boot out of the water, and sure enough, there is a fucking human leg hanging out of this boot. The thought of that image is just too much. I dropped it back in the water because, like, what do you do? I don't know.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now the group is yelling at me, half saying to leave it and the other half saying to call 911. I look over at my mom who nods at me as if to say, do it. Being my morbid self. Thanks, ladies. You bet. I pull the boot back out of the water and throw it on my kayak. Stop it. I'm proud of you. So here I am, 50 minutes into a seven-hour float with a right lower leg on my kayak. Oh, my God.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
No one had cell service. And to be honest, we were a little worried the DNR wouldn't be cool with our general lack of life jackets and planned alcohol consumptions. It's planned and you have a driver. There you go. After talking with my uncle, who is an EMT, and my mom, a nurse, we decided I would paddle back upstream to the nearby sandbar where we could easily reach later via gravel road.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Again, I already have a buzz on and my ass had to now paddle upstream.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I'm not an athletic girl, so this took a bit. Once I reached the beach, I set the foot down in a clearly visible place I could later identify for the police. The whole time I'm paddling, all I could think was... Oh, my God, I can't wait to tell Layton. I'm obsessed. Because even though we're not best friends in real life, we are in my head. And now we are. We are in real life.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
As morbid of a discovery we made, our family still enjoyed a full day on the river and had a blast. You guys are reckless, and I love it. I love it. I would be so worried that the rest of the mans was somewhere underneath us. Which would show us, yeah. After we got off the river at 6 p.m., my uncle called in our discovery.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
We sobered up a bit and went down to the scene to give our statements to the sheriff's deputies. Picture a fairly intoxicated sunburnt mother of two with a morbid fascination for all things true crime trying to set the scene for the deputy like I'm some type of professional who doesn't just listen to a lot of podcasts and watch too many murder documentaries. This is actually wild.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I probably should have said that, but I don't remember that. That's okay. I can't do it. I can't be Ash.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
This is a story and I love it. I would pay money to watch that body cam footage.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The next morning, my brother went out to the scene and showed investigators specifically where we had pulled out the boot. While he was there, they dug into the sand and found pieces of denim. A few weeks later, we found out they excavated the area and did recover a body. So he was floating with you. He was floating with you.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Yes. After a few months, they confirmed the body was that of a missing man from the area who was last seen in November 2020. Damn. Even though this whole experience was wild and a story I will tell around the bonfire for years to come, it was not lost on any of us the impact our discovery made. I only hope we brought this man's family a little justice.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
At this point, there has never been an official cause of death release that I know of. And although there's lots of rumors for what may have happened, out of respect for this man's family, I won't speculate. Good on ya. Sometime when I'm not running on fumes, I will send in my best ghosty stories. Please do. Please do. Turns out I'm fairly sensitive in spirits good and bad. I almost said fairly.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Turns out I'm fairly sensitive. That's so me. That's very you. In spirits good and bad, really dig my vibes. Both my children are similar and keeping our home cleared and cleansed is a constant battle. About two years ago, I saw several mediums and ended up needing to perform a ritual to remove a negative attachment from a past life. Send over that information. Yeah.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Things have gotten much easier since then and my life has transformed into something truly beautiful that I didn't know was possible. Oh, that just made my heart so full. Love you both and look forward to seeing a new episode every time they pop up. Thank you for all the time and energy you put in the podcast. It has gotten me through many long work days and house cleaning days.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I'm obsessed with just the piece of scotch tape with a raisin hanging from it.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That shit is right. That shit is so right. Because if my kids made that, I'd be like, let's put it on the tree.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Like, can we have a sign? And then, boom. And immediately, his ornament. And like, like Katie just said, there was six kids in that family. Yeah. Of all the ornaments. There's billions of ornaments. Yeah. Yeah. All over. I mean, our tree is three kids and it's like a billion ornaments. I can't imagine six throughout the years in that age for that one to fall. That's special.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That's really, really special. That's awesome. That's a Christmas motherfucking miracle.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I love nails. You love mail. I love a manicure. So this was amazing. It was so much fun. Loved it. Can't wait to get out of this. Yes. Love you. Love you so much. Can't wait to see you in something like this. Back at you. Do you want this? Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, I do. But yeah. So we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
But not so weird that you find a severed foot while you're just trying to float and get a little buzz on on the 4th of July. And also keep it a little weird that you get this lighthearted ornament that's a sign from your brother. And also he's playing karate movies in the background because that's fun. And there's some good karate movies, especially films from the 80s and 90s.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
I love karate movies. Karate movies forever. Also, grandma being the boogin, keep it that weird, because boogins are weird and that's awesome. Send pizza to a crime scene, but only if someone requests you to do so. And follow the fucking instructions. Also, ghostly Hanukkah parties? Sign me up. Let's go. Where's the lock keys? I love it. Keep it that weird.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
All right. You've never flipped your weave off, so. I haven't ever flipped my weave off. I'm crying. I'm literally crying. But that's because I'm an empath.
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Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty and shut down.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
all right all right this one is oh by the way merry chrysler and happy uh oh wait you wouldn't say that merry christmas happy yule happy yule there you go happy yule is what elena would say i hope your holidays have been so gorgeous i hope your holidays have been so gorgeous that really is a
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Oh, this is an unhinged one, everybody. That's what it's supposed to be.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
It's like boogen, boogen. Boogen, boogen. Boog out. It's lost all meaning. You never had one in the beginning. I was going to say, I didn't know. Anyway. I lost another nail.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That is, and that's very Christmas. That is so Christmassy. It's a very Christmas ghost story where it's like, I'm the boogin. It's Christmas tomfoolery. I think, I feel like boogin is a thing. Like, that's a thing that... They do call spirits, I think.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Your turn, Ash. So Ash's turn, and it's going to be Listener Below.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
listener tales christmas edition christmas and it says attached you will find a puttafa of my christmas edition listener tales i hope you enjoy i will who knows all right it says hello my spooky obsessed friends love you and your podcast so much i love you thank you i don't know if i can say your name yet so i'm not going to say it don't say it yet All of the congratulations on all of the things.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Marriages, new and old, kids, cats, books, giving me nightmares for a week, etc. Thanks for all that. The last is not an easy thing to do, so truly congrats. How, you may ask, was it the John Wayne Gacy episodes? No. How about A Spooky Road? Also no. Dennis Rader? Hell no. The scariest thing about that asshat is his hairline. That's true. What then? That failed pirate Carl fucking Pansram.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
No, he was creepy. He was crazy. Yeah. Can't put my finger on why he tripped the night terror switch. However, I did not sleep for several nights. Thank you. He was a wild one. So I get that one. No, he really was.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
He's an underrated scary one for sure. My name is Leanne. Go ahead and use it. There you go. Today I'm offering you an example of my dad's questionable parenting choices in the form of a listener tale Christmas edition. Let's get after it. This is the story of when my dad had my sister and I get pizza delivered to a murder scene. First, a bit of context of how my dad just is.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
He and our mom split when my sister and I were very young, and my dad never remarried. So his gauge on all things child-related can be far from standard at times. Not in an abusive way. More of a, they are clean and alive, therefore they are just fine kind of way. Kind of like the dad in Overboard. Exactly. Just like, you know, it's fine.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Our mom moved to the Midwest and we spent our lives flying between the two. Dad in California, mom in Indiana, Michigan.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
And flying that much. It's Christmas Eve, 1991. I was 11 and my sister was about to turn 13. At this time, in his 20 years with the sheriff's department as a patrol officer, that you buried the lead there. You really did. You really did. Because when you said. To a murder scene. Get pizza delivered to a murder scene. I was like, did your dad murder someone and then call you to bring pizza?
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
That's also what I thought. This explains it. This explains it. Now we know. My dad worked days, aka the worst six months of his working life. Who works days? It is the absolute worst thing ever. Both quotes my dad firmly stands by to this day. I kind of get that. I know, I get that.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
So it's around lunchtime, and my older sister and I are sitting around the house, most likely watching absolute trash TV, because while there was never food in the house, we had all the cable channels. We were waiting for our dad to get off work to take us to our family's yearly Christmas party, when the phone rings. It's our dad, and he needs us to do him a favor.
Morbid
Episode 633: Listener Tales 93
Now, this is very odd because no matter his work shift hours, whenever he needed something from us, he would just swing by the house because we lived in his patrol area. Side note, this meant it was also okay to leave his two kids home alone while working graveyard ship because, quote, if anything happens, I will be the first to know. We live in my patrol area. I mean.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And I think she definitely... Sounds like she was a little put off by it.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
So you invited this girl to another state so you could tell her that you're dating someone else?
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
No, that makes literally no sense. That you have her travel to another state so you can tell her that you have a girlfriend.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
what is the e in pemdas that was the first thought i the first thought i had this morning i rolled over and i looked at john i said do you remember what the e is in pemdas and he was like you just opened your eyes like what do you mean and i was like how dare you assault me he literally was like what are you talking about and i was like pemdas you know how you like oh yeah but it was literally he had just opened his eyes and he was like i remember what pemdas is
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, that feels like an exercise in humiliation.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
That's what it feels like, and I'm angry.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Also, how'd your girlfriend feel about that? That you invited a girl two states, like states away.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
To come see you? Who you've been corresponding with? Like, I'm sorry, that's weird as fuck. It is weird.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Or even she might have just second guessed it on her own. Yeah, because you're taught to be like, let them do what they want. And it's like, no, sometimes in this world, you can't just. Yeah. You have to trust her.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
The world just tells people like this, like, oh, you're just being crazy. You're just being paranoid.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
You're being overprotective. And it's like, no, she's.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
That's just weird. Objectively, that's fucking weird.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, we say, okay, we got to call the cops now because everything's awry.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And I was like, exponent. And he was like, what is happening? Like, he was like, we're not even out of bed yet. To the power of baby. But I was like, exponent, I remember it now. And then I got really happy that I remembered it. And then I was like, that was the weirdest set of events to wake up with. One thing I was really good at in school was math, weirdly.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, that's, I mean, I was not great at math. I fucked heavy with pub deaths. I'm struggling. I'm trying to help the girls with their math.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Doesn't sound like it. Police, when you hear a blood curdling scream in a cornfield, okay?
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
well that's not our math but even like the the basic shit like they started learning fractions and i was like oh fuck me right up i'm pretty all right with fractions it's not my favorite i'm figuring it out honestly i just think of baking well that's honestly i think baking has helped me because i'll like just be but the problem is when you're baking i have like a google home thing so i'll just be like
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Well, I think that's the thing. It's like we're not pointing fingers at anyone. It's just like there's some unanswered questions that it doesn't seem like had enough attention.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
That could be missing pieces to a puzzle that may not include them being part of it. Yeah. It's just like, why weren't all the pieces put together?
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, if she was barefoot, she was not planning on being gone long. No. That was a quick little walk. Little stroll. Yeah. Wow.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
I mean, that's scary that she's just walking by herself in the dark.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Barefoot. Yeah. Like that's in an unknown area.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
hey google what's like yeah how do i make like blah blah blah out of blah blah blah so you don't do like you don't exercise that part of your brain yeah see and they're doing like full-on like you know right but you know we're getting there we're learning math there you go and oh i have something to tell you guys um that's just like a fun little thing i'm not we're not being paid by this company i just really like this thing say i do too they can be a sponsor if they want to but like they're not i mean we're both very passionate they yeah so this is
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And you have to remember, like, again, like, the stuff at the party is very, like, strange, and some of it is questionable. But you look at this, and you say, look at the Alice in Boza. Yep. And it's like, these, yeah, two people might have just decided that tonight they were going to do this. Like, you know what I mean?
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Like, if I've learned nothing from that, I've learned that, yeah, they can just decide to.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
When they see an opportunity that they feel like they can get the upper hand in, they will take that opportunity. So it does.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Her mother also said that she was very trusting and liked to chat with people.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
would kind of let stuff out like that because she believed the best in people and she may have even you know like said something about the fact that this wasn't a great night it wasn't going well yeah like i'm i want to i'm going home yeah like she's at a party where she doesn't know a lot of people yeah like who knows what was said who knows that's the thing so it's like we can look at the party goers and the party situation is like yeah there's some unanswered questions there but like this is also a very distinct possibility that yes
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
I found this in case I feel like a lot of people could use this right now just with the state of the world. It's this app that's like described as a self-care Tamagotchi. Which it literally is. Which immediately drew me into it. I said yes. And it's called Finch. F-I-N-C-H. It's so cute. And you literally take care of this little bird.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah. And the fact that there's like a cornfield involved in this just makes it even scarier.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And this is like, I don't know why cornfields just free. I mean, I know why. Yeah. Popular culture has made me fear cornfields. But I mean, yeah, it just gives it like a way more chilling quality to this whole thing.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
by doing things for yourself and like you let and it's a very good app like it's really good i've been using it for two full weeks now same and it's like actually helping me be more mindful so basically you just kind of like list out things that you would like to accomplish for the day
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
they literally give you a list to begin with and one of those things is get out of bed so it's like you you don't have to shoot for the stars like it's and you can check that off i got out of bed and it gives you like a yay you did it and so like i have like you know drinking a certain amount of water and making sure i do that like read for 10 minutes write for 20 minutes like make sure i have all these little like you know and you can say like you know brush your teeth
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
yeah some of mine are like home-cooked meal like yeah eat dinner at home some of them are like i have put one item away that is not in its place because like with kids things just get wild and you know and so doing that is like something that can start you on like organizing somewhere one of them is smile at yourself in the mirror I love that. Which actually really, it sounds weird.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And it sounds crazy, but it can bring you up a little bit. Yeah. And not just like smile at yourself in the thing. Definitely not. It's like look at yourself and genuinely smile at yourself in the mirror and it will give you a little boost of like. Chip Skylark in the mirror, babe. There you go. Like do it. Yeah. Your shiny teeth and you. It's true. I have turn off notifications for an hour.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, that's New York. Get it fucking together. That's weird. Get it fucking together. That's suspicious. That's real fucking suspicious.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Why the fuck? Why? Yeah. Are you kidding me?
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And it's wild to me that they're like, you know, you look shady. So if you're not covering something up, guess what? You look like you're covering something up. You look shady. So it's like you should probably move this forward so that you can stop everybody from thinking you did something fucked up. Yeah, exactly. Because right now, I think you did something fucked up.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, I usually do that, but I literally like...
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Honestly, everyone annoy the shit out of them until they do this.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
If you don't want to look shady, then let them do it.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
phone upstairs don't even oh yeah do not disturb is my shit especially on the weekends if you can't get in touch with me i'm on do not disturb i have take a short walk without distractions i have my kids my hour walk every day on mine and you so like you check them off and it gives your little bird energy and your little bird goes on adventures every day and then tells you about it at the end of the day they discover something new yeah and it's just like
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
So it'll be right at the bottom of this episode in the show notes. You'll be able to see it and there'll be a link. So you can click it and then also again like Ash said in the socials we'll do it because
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
That must be the most frustrating thing in the entire world.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Just give it a shot. What the fuck are we doing stopping murders from being solved through red tape? Fuck that. Yeah, it shouldn't even be a thing.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
damn i want this case to be solved i want them to submit that dna i want that to at least be put into motion yeah it's gone nobody's saying that it's like that 100 it's gonna work but why the fuck not try why not try why not try and like hey
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
politicians and everybody and whoever's like red taping this if you're listening her dad died without knowing what happened to her her mom shouldn't have to die without knowing what happened to her daughter and what if this was your kid like her mom said what if would you want that dna sitting on a shelf and just because a red tape and bullshit bureaucracy yeah it doesn't get submitted to a pioneering lab that could potentially give you the answers you need come would you be fine with that because you'd be like well like was that what you would do no
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Like, no. You wouldn't. Come on. If it was for you, you'd be slicing through that red tape. Exactly. Because it's not yours. You don't give a shit.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Who did it? Let's go. Let's get this moving.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
It's a cute little thing. It might help you just, like, check off some little things that you would like to make habits out of or try to just, you know, make yourself feel good.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
You're powerful as fuck. We can get this shit to happen. And you get shit moving and you get shit done. One thing. And we've seen you do it before.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
You're badass motherfuckers. And you give a shit, so do it. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And it's turning, like, healthy things into routines. Yeah, I have literally, like... work out for 15 minutes on there. That's great. Because it's literally like just move for 15 minutes. So I highly recommend it. And again, we're not being sponsored by them. This is just one of those recommendation moments that I think would benefit a lot of people.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Elena told me about it and I've used it every day since. Oh, and there's also a little thing. This made me...
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
happy yeah there's like even more stuff than just there's a lot of yeah there's a lot of things that you can do on here so i i recommend you download it and kind of explore it a little bit check it out because there's something called like like they have like breathing techniques those are nice they have movements like they'll give you little things to get yourself moving for 10 minutes or something um they have soundscapes you can write down reflections and journal entries and thoughts
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And they have a first aid kit, which is if you're feeling very anxious or if something happened that upset you or put you in some type of way. Like you're panicky. Yeah. Like you can... It can help you just like get through it. Yeah. Like there's a rant zone. There's grounding exercises. Oh, I did the rant zone the other day. There's like...
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
what would you say to a loved one and it's directing compassion inwards towards yourself it's really beautiful i can be mean to me um so that it was very helpful because sometimes you know people can trigger you yeah and sometimes you're your own worst critic anyway yeah and it helps you like not take in all the yuckiness on the outside yeah and it helps you like work through it if if some leaks through
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah. So, hey, Finch, if you want to sponsor us. Finch, we're kind of obsessed with you. We just gave you a pretty good advertisement.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
So guys, download it. I just highly recommend it if you're looking for something to help yourself there. And it's been helpful to me. I like it.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
I think it's great. And it's made me more mindful of things, like certain things. Because I'll look and I'll be like, you haven't read for 10 minutes. When can you schedule that in? I should put that on mine because I've been not keeping up with my reading lately. Yeah, and it's really helpful. Yeah, I love that. So Finch, everybody. Hell yeah. Yeah, that's my little recommendation for the day.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
And if that like it sounds like it was like a comfort.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah. I can't even comprehend it. And you also have to be a real people person.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Like really good with people and have a good demeanor, which it sounds like she was kind of perfect for that. Definitely.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
They're like going up the steps of the relationship ladder.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, of course. What an impossible position.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Well, you want to give her the independence and the freedom to make choices, and you can't tether them to you for the rest of their lives as much as we want to, especially.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Because it's just like uncharted territory for you. Up until then, you have been able to tether them to you pretty much. And it's your role.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
Yeah, that's how I pictured it, too. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
You get to make the rules. And it's like at that point you do feel, it's like it must be this weird feeling of like, well, I have to kind of give them a little freedom, but I don't want to at the same time. Like I want to just keep them here.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
We'll do that someday, yeah. We'll do that. Someday.
Morbid
Episode 659: The Unsolved Murder of Kristin O’Connell
I had a strange dream last night, and I don't remember the dream itself. This is going to sound so random, but I remember in the dream, someone was using PEMDAS to solve an equation. Oh, my God.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Hey weirdos, before we unleash today's macabre mystery, we were wondering, have you ever heard of Wondery Plus? It's like a secret passage to an ad-free lair with early access to episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Is that where they're like trying to give directions? Yes. Okay, yeah. I know that one.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I laugh every time I hear The Californians. I think you said I sounded like that once. You're so mean to Ash. The start of the new year is the perfect time to get organized, set goals, and prioritize what matters most. For me, a top priority is my financial wellness, which feels more important than ever. Thanks to Rocket Money, my goals feel achievable.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
They show me all my subscriptions right in one place and help me easily cancel ones that I forgot that I'd been paying for. Rocket Money also pulls together all my spending across all of my different accounts so I can clearly track my spending habits and see where I can cut back.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. You can see all your subscriptions in one place, which means you know exactly where your money is going.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
And for those subscriptions that you don't want anymore, like, say you have a duplicate account, because maybe that happened to me. Rocket Money can help you cancel them. They helped me. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash morbid today. That's rocketmoney.com slash morbid. rocketmoney.com slash morbid. All my parents out there, I know that you never want to sacrifice quality for convenience, but listen, so many baby and kids' food options today, they just don't meet the mark.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
But that is why I really love Little Spoon. They deliver healthy, ready-to-eat meals and snacks that your baby, toddler, or even your big kid will love and that you can actually feel good about. All their products are junk-free, organic where it counts, and thoughtfully sourced. Peace of mind every parent deserves, and easier mealtime without sacrificing on quality.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
They have an amazing variety of baby blends, biteables, plates, and so much more. Elena gets Little Spoon for her girls, and I am always out here stealing their little snacks because they are that good. And she's always talking about how good she feels serving them meals that are actually good for them. And did I mention it all comes right to your door?
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
So flexible, so easy, and everything stores right in the fridge and freezer. You pick the menu and change up what you order every time. The price is right. The quality is unmatched. Elena loves it. Her kids love it. The grandparents even love it. A huge win-win-win for our family, and it can be for yours. Simplify your kiddo's mealtime with 30% off your first order.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Go to littlespoon.com slash morbid30 and enter our code morbid30 at checkout to get 30% off your first Little Spoon order.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me, given, again, how brutal her death was.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
You also feel so bad for those people. Because my goodness, he duped them. Exactly. So duped. Like, you think you know someone and then you find this out about them. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
He's able to get, did you say three wives or four wives? He had several wives. I don't even know how many he had at the end. To get that many women to marry you, you have to be somewhat charming. Absolutely.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Oh, weird that it was on a beach, too. Yeah. That's very weird.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Oh, I've always been so interested in that case. Yes. And then when the update finally hit, I was like, oh, damn. You said, oh, shit. I said, we should cover that.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I don't think most people, aside from Ophelia and Hamlet, would choose that.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Let's go, sister. It's raining, by the way. So if you hear any like pitter patter, that's why. It is.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
It's so soothing, but it's like hella windy outside and it knocked over my Christmas plants.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
So good luck to us. So everybody hang tight. But anyway, sorry, I interrupted you because that's who I am as a person. You did.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
It's who I am as a person. So I guess I'm rude. You're a rude bitch is what you are.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
It's really sad that they had so much hope, and I'm sure that gave her family hope as well. And they wasted all these resources.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed, but it just isn't. Things like your friends being on their way when they text you LMW or getting out the same number of socks from the dryer that you put in. AT&T is introducing a new guarantee, the AT&T Guarantee, because there's a lot in life that's not guaranteed.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I wonder why. Weird that he left. That's like crazy that they decided to move out of like nowhere. Yeah. Listen, I don't know about you guys, but obviously I have some bad habits that I want to shrug off. You know, we've all got bad habits that we try to shake off.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
And even though I'm not going around doing shady stuff like some of the people that we'd be talking about on this podcast, it's always a good idea to make moves towards good habits. Thank you so much for having me. Fume has a ton of delicious flavors to choose from. Crisp mint, orange vanilla, and new peach blush. I have the peach blush one and it is yummy.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
In 2025, maybe you're ready for a plot twist, or maybe there's a part of your story that you've been wanting to revise. I think you should think of therapy as your editorial partner, helping you write new chapters and create the meaningful story that you deserve to live. Something I talk about in therapy all the time is how I always want to better myself. I heard this affirmation the other day.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I won't get it spot on, but it said something along the lines of, I'm going to be a better version of myself today than I even was yesterday. And I think that's really inspiring. And I think therapy is a great place to start if you want to start working on yourself. And guess what? BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
That's always so scary, too. You think you know somebody and then you marry them. Those stories and cases are so sad. Yeah, they are.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I was going to say, that's weird. I didn't hear you mention that in the beginning. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Everybody's grandpa has a different opinion of Whitey, okay? It's true. In my mind, I thought he was not the mob.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Like they have younger siblings and young children. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Oh, and things are just like almost preserved like that. That's the thing. Chilling is the perfect word. Just left the way it was. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Again, can we just say the detective work for the time period goes crazy.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Which is wild, because he continued to live there for a period of time. Yep. Yep. Have you ever grown tired of searching for your favorite movies and TV shows across numerous streaming accounts? It's so frustrating to have all your favorite shows live across multiple logins and apps. I'm trying to watch one show. I'm like, wait, what's my login here?
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
So sad. Oh, it's awful what happened to her.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Super duper easy to not have to log in to like 45 different streaming services. Check out subscriptions on Prime Video.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Yeah, I was going to say, I think there was more to that than my mispronunciation, but... Oh, my God. Yeah. So he dismembered to the point where he, like, took organs out? Yeah. Or had they possibly just decayed through the skin and it was just organs left?
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
No, no, for sure. But like they were residents of that home and isn't there something called probable cause and circumstantial evidence? These remains were human.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
No, there's blood like everywhere. Literally. And there was a kidney, a fucking uterus in somebody's ear and his septic system. Okay. I wouldn't call that weak.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Like everybody knows, but it's like. It depends on if somebody's willing, if the DA is willing to take it. Yeah. And a lot of times they will take that gamble because we've covered cases even earlier than this where they go to trial without a body.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
It's like, come on, this could work. You're going to get him on a larceny charge.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I hate that he died and like didn't serve any time for any of this. I hate that that guy died.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Well, yeah, it was a loan, but he didn't go to where he said he was going when he took it. So he stole the money, babes.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
You have to wonder if she was scared. I wonder that too. If Dolores and Manzi, you know, faced the fate that they did at his hands, I'm sure there was lead up to that.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Yeah. I feel like they would have fucking found him guilty on a murder charge.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Wow. I mean, I guess, like, having it, I'm sure the jury didn't hear about, like, the... No, because you can't introduce that stuff. Right, like, the body parts and everything. So they just heard this large thing, and it's, I mean, $10,000 is a lot of money, but, like... But it's, like, you know...
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Which is just like, try to conceive of that. Everybody who's married or at least has, but at some point, think about your honeymoon. Yeah. Like, what? Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
No. You know what, though? He died in March and Dolores and Manzi were last seen in March. So that's karma at work, in my opinion.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Also, I in my opinion, at least there's no way he just stopped with Dolores and Manzi and Terry. No, no way.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
I've never heard of somebody having that found in their septic tank and just being like, eh, anyways, they got to live the rest of their life untouched. Ugh. Damn. It makes me so angry. It does make me, it makes me so angry that all of that, but it does make me so happy that at least now his name is tarnished. Yeah, exactly.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
It's like, you did get what was coming to you at the end, so there's that at least. But it's so sad that technically Dolores and Manzi never got the justice that they deserved. Yeah. And that they never found Barbara Kelly's body. No.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Yeah. Well, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. Woo! but it's worth any of this. Don't be that bad of a human. Please don't. Be good. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
Everybody in P-Town at the time was an extra in Jaws.
Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
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Morbid
Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin
To know in your gut that you're right about something as serious and as devastating as this and to not be able to prove it. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
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Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
That was really good. Thank you. I liked that. Thank you so much. No, Ash has just gotten me into Yellow Jackets, so I'm almost done with the first season. I dig it. She's not, yeah, she's not current, so don't give her any spoilers because I will come for you. Yeah, don't give me spoilers. I'm trying to. I'm current. Yeah. Guys, we're in the fucking trenches. In the thick of it. We are.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Because of this, when the metal workers from Walter Fields and Sons began caulking the seams of the steel tank, the flaws were pretty apparent immediately. According to author Stephen Paleo, I believe it's Paleo, I hope I'm saying his name correctly. It sounded like you said his good name. His good name. I don't want to ruin his good name. I hope I'm saying his good name correctly.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Stephen, I hope I'm saying your good name correctly. So according to Stephen, he said, quote, molasses leaked from several different seams, squeezing through the rivets and sliding down the steel walls like lazy brown rivers, plopping onto the pavement below and spreading slowly into thick pools. Fun.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Whenever the men would hose off the tank's exterior, beads of dark molasses would just reappear almost immediately at the seams. Oh, no. We should probably empty that tank, y'all. Yeah. Yeah. The job was frustrating and pretty arduous as well. But finally, just one day before Christmas, the tank was finished and it was deemed ready for the molasses shipment. It's a Christmas miracle.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It's a Christmas miracle. We can fill it with molasses. On January 12th, 1919, the ship, which was called the Moliro, arrived in Boston Harbor from Cuba carrying 1.3 million gallons. Wow. 600,000 gallons of which was going to be pumped into the USIA's tank in the north end of molasses. Blink, blink, blink, blink. 1.3 million gallons came over on that ship. Damn.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
600,000 gallons was going into that tank. I don't think there's any way for me to actually appropriately picture that in my mind. Yeah, I just can't. My brain won't conceive of it. No. It's a lot of molasses. On one boat that came over? One ship. It was like a big cargo ship. I mean, yeah, of course. But damn. I know. That's crazy. It's crazy.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So despite the freezing temperatures and even colder wind chill, because remember we're in Boston in January. Honey, it's cold. The molasses, which had been warmed in advance, moved smoothly through the pump into the tank. And by the following morning, the shipment was completed. It probably smelled so good in there. Oh, so good. Like gingerbread cookies. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
With their job done, the ship left the docks, headed for Brooklyn, where they were going to deliver the remainder of the molasses. Now, not long after the ship had left the harbor, residents and workers in the area of the wharf began to hear some sounds. They heard some loud cracking and pinging sounds. That's never a sound you really want to hear.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So this was a sound the warm molasses was mixing with the cold, thick molasses that was already in the tank. Now, this was not entirely foreign to hear these kinds of sounds because since being built several years earlier, locals had grown accustomed to like some metallic groans emanating from the tank as like different liquids settled. Yeah. Because it is a cold tank.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It's like, you know, you're going to hear some sound. Yeah, and especially mixing the warm with the cold. Exactly. What the locals didn't know, though, at this time was that the mix of old and new molasses increased the temperature inside the tank, which set off the fermentation process and produced gases in that process. Oh, shit.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
I'm trying to get there. It takes us a long time to get through a show, John and I, so. They're coming up on episode seven. Of the first season.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
With the tank now holding a whopping 2.3 million gallons of molasses. Holy shit. It was nearly at full capacity. Not even completely. Leaving very little room for expansion, and it was just trapping the gases in this small amount of head space remaining in the tank, which is not good. That's not good.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Sometimes that happens with my sourdough starter, and it sounds like there's a gas leak in my house. There you go. Drew and I were literally sitting on the couch one night, and it was like,
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
and I was like what the fuck we literally searched everywhere we were like oh my god and it was my fucking sourdough starter damn yeah that's scary that was very scary that's why I can't do sourdough I'm too scared there's so many reasons you can't sourdough freaks Elena out it's the feeding it it's the Elena thinks it's too human it's that thing telling you it's hungry and I just I can't I can't do it man
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So the first few weeks of January in Boston, like normal, had been frigidly cold. Temperatures were as low as two degrees. But on the morning of the 15th, as often happens. We got a heat wave. They awoke to find an unseasonably warm day. It's just suddenly like, oh, we're in spring now. And unseasonably warm for Boston in that time is like 48 degrees. We were like, shit.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
so there's so many things i want to say i was gonna it's really good though i was gonna signify something to the listeners but i can't i love christina ricci i would lay down fire of a thousand suns i would lay down my life yeah i love her so much that's that's all i can say about it but um also uh i'm sure we're weeks out at this point but uh probably pretty cool that tobias forge was on the show do you guys understand how hard it was for both of us to keep that from you
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
We're here for a light sweater day. I don't know how warm it is today, but I've been rolling without a jacket. Oh, it's gorgeous today. It's gorgeous. Let's see. I was just going to say we have to. It's 43 degrees. It's 43 degrees. And I'm like, it's gorgeous. I'm like, oh my God. It's also so fucking windy out today. It is. It's literally got like 90 degree, 90 miles per hour winds.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And we're like, it's beautiful out. Yeah. The wind gusts right now are 23 miles an hour.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
But we saw the sun. So there's that. Yeah. We always look for that. So yeah, it's been freezing in Boston. But on this day, the 15th of January, it was unseasonably warm in the 40s. Everybody wanted to go out. Everyone's outside because it's gorgeous. And you got to get some air.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
On the wharf, the workers from USIA, the workers there began preparing for the days to come when the giant molasses tank would be emptied onto railroad cars and taken to Cambridge where it was going to be fermented and processed. This was going to be a big job, so they were getting ready for it. All right.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
A little past 12.30 p.m., everyone on the wharf was going about the usual business, loading, unloading cargo, milling about on lunch breaks, normal thing. After such a long period of freezing temperatures, the warm weather, you know, like we always say, it's the 40s, it's early spring here, so let's go.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And many of the residents and workers, like we were saying, didn't want to miss a chance to be outside on such a lovely spring day. Because you get so fucking cooped up. And everything's dry and you feel like you just get cabin fever. That's what everyone's outside. Yeah. Like you like we were saying, everybody's outside. It's a beautiful day. Then they heard the sounds.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
I can't. The sounds would freak me the fuck out. These are loud, scary sounds. It's like apocalyptic. Oh, it's awful. And it was unlike anything they'd ever heard coming from the direction of the giant molasses tank. Later, Boston police officer Frank McManus would describe... Of course. I could not let that go. I know, I couldn't. Frank. Oh, Frankie McManus. Frankie McManus?
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
That's like, yeah, that's... Frankie McMahon? Ah, that's my guy. That's my gold boy. You know Frankie McManus. Obsessed. You know? He would describe it as, quote, a machine gun-like rat-tat-tat sound and an unearthly grinding and scraping that... A bleeding that sounded like the wail of a wounded beast. He should probably write something. Frankie McManus, if you don't write a book.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Frankie McManus is a goddamn poem. That's fucking terrifying, though. Because you're probably sitting there like, what the fuck is that? Did the side of the earth just get cracked? I just scared the apocalypse. The four horsemen were on their way. I'd be like, what's going on? Did you hear the trumpets? Yeah. I'm still waiting. That idea scares the shit out of me. That happens sometimes, though.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
the trumpeting yeah like people hear that shit i think it's all fake personally but i but i appreciate it because it scares the shit out of me no matter what it's fake because otherwise the end of the world would have happened like it's definitely fake but like the videos whenever they used to show those where it was like we're hearing trumpeting in the sky sometimes people hear other things though that sound like it yeah and it's still scary as fuck yeah no matter what so i appreciate how terrifying it is i don't want to hear shit like that no i don't want that i don't keep that away from me
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Royal Albert Lehman, a brakeman for the Boston Elevated Railroad, was driving the train when, quote, Oh, God. Joseph Hiller was on his way back to work on the docks when he heard it and he felt the rumble. When he looked in the direction of the harbor, he, quote, saw the big tank open up and fall apart. Holy shit.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
While the wall of molasses 50 feet high in the front rolled out over the ground with a seething hissing sound. 50 feet high. And if you've ever baked with molasses.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Just a jar of molasses. It is so viscous. Think of that. And now think of, like, what that can do. It's like the blob. It's literally like a horror movie. Well, and I assume, like, I mean, it's rushing at you, first of all.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So, at a second, you can't move. And, like, it's like quicksand. Oh, yeah, you're stuck in it. Think of how sticky that is and thick. Oh, my God. How did they even clean that up? I know. So later that day, the Boston Globe reported, once the low rumbling sound was heard, no one had a chance to escape. Oh, that's horrifying.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And the scene on the docks, which was very calm, very serene a few minutes earlier, had been thrown into total chaos and panic. From his train car on the elevated tracks, Lehman, who we talked about before, looked out the window and saw, quote, a black mass bearing down on him, darkening the sky. Jesus Christ. Just before he felt the tracks buckle and the train begin to tip. Oh, God.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It was so fun. It was so fun. He's always a fun guest. He's delightful. He's a very, very nice man. He is delightful. And we got to have Doug Bradley on. Doug congratulated me because he congratulated Tobias on his success. He congratulated Elena on her book. And he said, I didn't congratulate you on anything, Ash. I said, that's fine. I just exist. And he congratulated me on being wonderful.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
In his bedroom on the third floor, Martin Clowardy came to several feet of molasses. And he said, it didn't dawn on me that it was molasses I was in, but it was already all around me. And he's in his apartment. So he broke through his fucking, oh my God. Martin told a reporter from the Globe, I thought I was overboard.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
A pile of wreckage was holding me down and a little way from me, I saw my sister. Oh my God. Now the Clowardy's house had been hit by the giant wave of molasses and knocked from its foundation. Oh. Take that in. It had been knocked, a house was knocked from its foundation. So he like he came to where? Like he was he was the whole house was sent into the elevated train line. Oh, my God. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Martin said it seemed as if the house had split in two when it hit the elevated structure. And I was in one side and my people in the other.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
The Clowerty's house was just one of the many structures in the neighborhood that was completely demolished by the wave of molasses. According to the Globe, the buildings seemed to cringe up as though they were made of pasteboard. As Mary Musco looked out her window and across the street to the Clowerty's house, she said she saw the entire building, quote, fly into the air. Oh, my God. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
You can't even conceive of that. You can't conceive of it. No. Like, it's so gnarly what happened here. Moving as fast as 35 miles per hour, the wave of molasses that flooded the North End devastated everything in its path. Of course it did. Six buildings in the immediate vicinity of the tank were completely gone, just totally demolished, flattened. Within seconds, I'm sure.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And one of the steel beams supporting the elevated train line was knocked down. A steel beam. A public works horses who were kept in the stalls near the wharf were either smothered in the flood or, quote, so severely injured as their stables collapsed that they were shot by policemen to end their suffering. Oh, that breaks my heart. Yeah. Oh, I hate that. Oh, God. Oh, God.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
A few yards from him, two train cars had been knocked from the tracks and thrown into nearby lampposts, knocking them free from the ground. So the lampposts are flying. Like, this is literally catastrophic. A disaster. Apocalyptic. Just things, houses, trains, cars flying everywhere. And it's probably not occurring to anyone in the moment that it's molasses.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So they're probably just like, what the fuck is this? Like, how would you even... It would never occur to you that that's molasses. Like, what the fuck is this? Right.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
at the diner on commercial street across from the wharf robert burnett was eating lunch with his family when the tank burst he said there was a rumble no roar or explosion that's what he told the boston post and he said i thought it was an elevated train until i heard a swish as if a wind was rushing then it became dark i looked out the window and saw this great black wave coming it didn't rush it just rolled slowly it seemed like the side of a mountain falling into space
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Oh, God. Of course it came quickly, but we all had a chance to jump and run before the windows began to crack. Then it poured molasses. Holy shit. Like, what? How do you even, like, look at that and... How do you even do anything? I'd be like, what is happening right now? I'd be frozen with fear.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
He grabbed his family and they fled the restaurant. But by the time they'd reached the front door, the molasses had reached the top of the 14-step flight of stairs, blocking the only exit. Oh, no. Instead, the Burnetts rushed up to the roof where they watched in absolute horror as the entire neighborhood was overtaken by this flood.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
I said, thank you so much. Doug Bradley forever. I'll remember that for the rest of my life. Doug and his wife, Steph, are two of my favorite people. They're very cool. They're just delightful people. Yeah. But yeah, that was a fun little like surprise we had because Tobias and Doug are our good buds there. Because he called him Toby through the whole thing. Toby. It was amazing.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Now, naturally, those closest to the tank suffered the worst of the damage. A freight agent at the Boston and Worcester Street Railway Company, H.M. Dorley, was working in one of the sheds about 15 feet from the tank when he heard the giant, loud, massive crack and the ground shook. So weird, as you're saying that, the wind is going crazy and shaking the house. It did.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Doralee told the post, the broken parts of the tank missed our shed only by a matter of inches. Wow. If they had stuck it, well, I wouldn't be talking with you. Damn. Parts of the tank struck other houses and they crumpled like eggs. How we escaped, I am at a loss to explain. Little short of a miracle. To say a house cracked like an egg. Crumpled like an egg. Crumpled like an egg. Oh my God. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
He's awoken the people to a true issue. Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
B.E. Kingsley, who was a worker at the Bay State Railway, was equally as close to the tank when it broke. He said where the tank stood, there was no tank. Instead was a mighty wall of some kind, a giant wave of molasses, and it was sweeping rapidly down upon the office, gaining momentum every second. I turned and ran into the outer office, calling a warning into the clerks there.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Doug Bradley's voice is the most calming voice I've ever heard in my life. Very soothing. I need to be like, can I call him when I'm having a panic attack? You should. Just be like, Doug, why not? Just be like, calm me down. He reads books on YouTube. Oh, yeah. So if you ever want to hear Doug Bradley read a book, you know, that's what I'll do next time I have a panic attack.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
so he and his co-workers ran for the exit but it was too late because a 15-foot wave of molasses hit the building and sent everyone and everything inside flying as the building collapsed around them jesus it wasn't just those working under the tank or near the tank that suffered though as more than two million gallons of molasses was tearing through the very narrow streets
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It swept up everything, people, animals, everything, hurling them several feet into the air, just sucking them down. Those not in the direct path of the flood still risked being hit by heavy timbers and other debris that was flying out of this flood.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
When the Clowerty's house was toppled by the wave, Martin's mother, 65-year-old Bridget Clowerty, was picked up by the wave and thrown across the street.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Bridget landed hard on the ground and then a large piece of the home's roof fell on top of her and crushed her to death. Oh my God. It's unthinkable. You live 64 years and that's how you go out? Yeah. Jesus. It's so violent. Oh, it's awful. It's brutal. That's the thing. It's violent.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And what's crazy is this is sometimes looked at, especially from people outside of Massachusetts or Boston, as like, oh, the Great Molasses Flood. Like a silly thing. It used to smell like molasses in Boston afterwards on hot days. And it's like, uh-huh. That's horrible because it's just a reminder. But nobody teaches anybody about it. No. Of course it sounds hilarious. It sounds hyperbolic.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
The name, the Great Molasses Flood, sounds hilarious. It sounds like it would be whimsical and smell like gingerbread. It sounds like something that would happen on fucking Phineas and Ferb. It does. It just sounds silly. Yeah. It wasn't. It was very, very, very brutal. It really was. People lost people that they loved. And in horrible ways. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
The other members of the Clowardy family made it out of their house, but it would be several hours before they learned the fate of their mother.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yeah. The wave of molasses struck the area hard, but an equally serious problem was getting into the area to help those that were affected by all of this. People are just trapped because it's also just like, doesn't it harden after a while too? Yeah, it's like crusty and shit. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
He can just read you a story. There you go. But it was a lot of fun. We got to talk about the new album, which has finally been announced, Skeletor. Very cool. And I got to hear it. A little bit of a flex. Real early. That's a big flex. I'm excited about it. You guys are going to love it. And I can't wait to see everybody at the shows this year so we can all freak out together.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The molasses had covered several blocks of the city in depths of two to three feet.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It's got a different vibe. It does, but it's so fun.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
it's cool i think it's a really cool it is so fucking good you guys have heard satanized so fun uh the music video for that is awesome we got to see papa papa perpetua and we got some inside scoop on that music video yeah so if you haven't listened to that episode you gotta go listen yeah you gotta listen because there's a little there's a cool fun fact in there there is toby confirmed toby confirmed if i may
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It was really cool, though. And you guys have been so sweet. The comments on that video so far, you guys are just really sweet because you know how excited I am about it. Everybody's just been really kind and I appreciate that. As they should be, Queen. This is a win for all of us. It is. And you're all going to fucking love the new album.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And I can't wait to see you and hang out with you at the ghost shows because I love running into people who listen to the show at those times. As Adore Delano says, party. Party. Let's go. Party. So that's really fun. We hope you dug it. 2025 has been pretty sweet outside of the entire world crumbling. Well, you just, I think it makes you. In my own little bubble, it's been.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So once the syrup had been washed away, large teams of men would follow behind scrubbing every surface with stiff bristle brushes to try to get it all because it's just sticky shit now. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
By the time everything had been cleared away, the flood was determined to have caused millions of dollars in property and infrastructure damage. Injured more than 150 people and killed the following 21 people. Patrick Breen.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
William Brogan, Bridget Clowerty, Stephen Clowerty, John Callahan, Maria D'Estasio, William Duffy, Peter Francis, Flaminio Gallarani, Pasquale Lentosca, Michael Sinnott, James Kennedy, Eric Laird, George Leahy, James Lennon, Ralph Martin, James McMullen, Cesar Niccolo, Thomas Noonan, Peter Shaughnessy, and John Sieberlich. That's so sad. We have, I mean, from... We have people in their 60s.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
We have a 10-year-old. We have a 17-year-old. We have some 20-year-olds. We have two 10-year-olds. Pascual Lentosca is also a 10-year-old. Peter Shaughnessy is 18 years old. Peter Sinnott is 78 years old. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's just, it's devastating. It is. It's tragic.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Now, once the initial shock and trauma of the event had subsided and they could survey the damage, what everyone wanted to know was how the fuck did this happen? What happened? It sounds like it was just built too quickly. And they didn't know that. So everybody's like, what the fuck happened?
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Just looking back now. Yeah. When he visited the disaster zone in the North End the day the tank collapsed, Mayor Andrew Peters told the press, quote, Not only to prevent a reoccurrence of such a frightful accident, but to place the responsibility where it belongs. Now Peter's statement was exactly what one would have expected from a politician in the wake of a tragedy.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
But it turned out that determining the cause of the collapse and identifying a responsible party was going to be a little more challenging than anyone had anticipated. Yeah. By the following day, the Massachusetts District Police's explosive expert, Walter Wedger, stated he was, quote, Okay. Okay. I guess that makes sense.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It makes you cling harder to the things that are. The wins. That are good. That's the thing. It's like the wins. You got to celebrate the wins right now because like. Because they're few and motherfucking far between. Outside of those, it's rough. So celebrate your wins. Yes. Be excited about the things you want to be excited about. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
While the Boston police conducted their investigation, the USIA announced they would be conducting their own investigation under the direction of Arthur Gell and led by professors Arthur Gill and Arthur Miller. So many Arthurs. I love that it's just a committee of Arthurs. Yeah, just Arthurs. And they were professors of Harvard and MIT, respectively. I mean, I believe them. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So a representative from USIA told the press, we feel sure there was no explosion. And if there was, it was caused by some outside force and not from within the tank. Well, it could have been within the tank because the tank is so pressurized. Exactly. That's the thing. Like, I don't think there has to be an outside explosion. No.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
In the weeks after that, the USIA's investigation focused on their theory that, quote, an anarchist climbed a ladder and dropped a pipe bomb into the fermentation vent. And that's what caused the tank to explode. That's quite the leap. Just an anarchist. Like what kind of anarchist gets up? I don't think most people would say, you know what I'm going to do today?
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
I think I'm going to explode the molasses tank down the street. I don't know how that would occur to you. It's a strange message. It is. What exactly are you trying to say? Now the thing is, we can be like, that's silly business. But it wasn't totally out of the realm of possibility.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Because in the early decades of the 20th century, anarchists around the United States did use bombings or the threat of bombings to take a stand against anti-immigration politicians and corporations they believed were exploiting workers. So, like... So it's silly to, like, think about, like, somebody climbing a molasses tank and throwing a pipe bomb.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
But you can see why they at least threw the theory out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because also they just don't understand how this is all working. Well, you got to start somewhere. Exactly. So USIA attorney Henry Dolan said, we know beyond question that the tank was not weak. And you have to remember, they're saving their own ass. Yeah, because that's a whole ass lie. Maybe it just broke and burst.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
They have to blame it on something like an anarchist climbing the thing. He said, we know that an examination was made of the outside of the base of the structure a few minutes before its collapse. And he insisted that whatever happened, it was not the company's fault.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Despite USIA's certainty that they were not to blame, District Attorney Joseph Pelletier took the case to the grand jury seeking an indictment against USIA for 19 counts of manslaughter, clearly believing they were to blame for the disaster.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
I saw Elise Myers, who like, again, who doesn't love Elise Myers? I saw her say something about how she almost got embarrassed because she got very excited about something. Yeah. And someone told her to like calm it down. Fuck that. And she was like, I almost got embarrassed. And then I said, fuck that. Like, I am very lucky to be excited about things. So I'm going to continue to. And?
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
On February 13th, the grand jury reviewed the case and found that while the tank did not completely comply with the law fixing a minimum factor of safety, there was insufficient evidence to justify the indictment. Um, yeah. Okay.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Simply put, the court and the state's investigators rejected USIA's bomb theory and believed that shoddy craftsmanship was at least partially to blame for the tank collapse, but that there wasn't enough evidence to prove it. So they said, no, we don't think somebody threw a bomb into the thing. We do think there was some structural issues, but we don't think there was enough evidence.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
To prove that? I would feel – I feel like the entire molasses flood should be enough evidence to prove that some of those – I think that's pretty good evidence. Some of those faulty bits there had – like that's all you really need. Well, and in the months, then years that followed, the courts would rule against the company in civil cases. Yeah. Ordering them to pay millions in damages. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So they basically said – So they did get there. Yeah. Right. Right. and the one that investigators had considered in their early investigation, is that the dramatic increase in warm weather triggered the fermentation process, causing a buildup of carbon dioxide inside the small headspace of the tank.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And if the tank had been properly constructed and held to high standards of safety, it likely could have withstood that buildup of gases. But in Jell's race to beat Prohibition, he had allowed the tank to build pretty quickly and kind of poorly. And under the circumstances, the tank walls were unable to withstand that pressure build. And when it became too much, the entire structure just exploded.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
I mean, that's what pressure does. That makes the most sense. Think about a pressure cooker. Yeah. There's 2 million, 2 million, right? 2.3 million. 2.3 million. Gallons. Gallons of fucking molasses in there. So it's not like it just exploded and like some molasses oozed out. No, it makes sense that that much chaos. Exactly. That that much like tragedy fell.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Because molasses is also a thick, viscous liquid. Yeah. If it's exploding, it's taken out everything. Yeah. Thick. It's got some mass behind it. It's not like this is just something with nothing behind it. It's not like a water tank. Yeah. And even that would cause damage. And you look at how thick molasses is in comparison to water. Yeah. Of course. And heavy. Exactly.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
How much damage those can do. That's the best way to think of it. That's essentially what it was. It was a pressure cooker. I was just going to say. Now, when considering the entire scenario, author Stephen Paleo wrote his good name. His good name. Author Stephen with his good name. I don't want to mess up his good name. No.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
He wrote, the substance itself gives the entire event an unusual whimsical quality. Yes. Allowing for it to easily fall into the category of folklore that's, you know, like told half seriously year to year. Yeah. In fact, one of the more lighthearted facts of the story is that for decades after the flood, the North End still smelled of molasses on warm days.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And people will say even now, they'll be like, oh, even now on warm days, you can just smell molasses. And it's like, uh-huh. Also, you can't. But imagine how triggering that was for people who had lost a loved one or themselves been injured. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. And it's like, so that was always like the thing. That was like a funny thing.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Why the fuck are you on the planet? What does all of this even mean if you're not excited about things? Not all the time, obviously. Be excited about things. If something excites you and gets you going and makes you excited, be as excited as you want to be and don't feel embarrassed about it. Especially if other adults are trying to be like, you're so weird, you're so cringy.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Like, oh, on warm days, you can still smell the molasses so much it leaked into the landscape. But like the reality of the flood was anything but humorous or whimsical. It just wasn't. Because of its chemical makeup, molasses, like we said, is real thick, real goopy. And given the right amount of stress and pressure, it can pick up momentum very quickly and move at insane speeds. Mm-hmm.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
35 miles an hour? Like you drive in your car at that fucking speed. Ferris Jaber wrote in Scientific American, because of this physical property, a wave of molasses is even more devastating than a typical tsunami. Wow. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yep. Like we said, moving at speeds 35, like nearly 35 miles per hour, the flood grabbed everything in its path because it was also sticky. It could grab onto things. And it would toss it into the air or crush it under the immense weight of the liquid itself.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And once it settled, the liquid returned to a more gelatinous state, which would trap people, animals, and property in like an iron vice grip. Even more terrifying is the fact that because of its viscosity, it's almost impossible to move, much less swim in molasses. So if you found yourself dragged under the wave, you would have died a terrible death because you couldn't move. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
You were just being eaten by it, essentially. It is only due to the incline of Copse Hill that the flood slowed down at all. Like, thank goodness there was an incline. Yeah. Because if the landscape had been a downhill slope, the death toll would have been considerably higher. It would have taken out hundreds of people. Oh.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Despite the horror of this whole thing, there was some good that came out of it. At the time of the flood, Americans were pretty accustomed to courts ruling in favor of corporate interests over those of the people. As such, most people likely assumed no one would be held accountable for the disaster, even though the evidence was strongly suggesting lax safety protocols and sloppy work.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
But to everyone's great surprise, Bostonians soon learned that sometimes the courts will do the right thing. All right. In the years-long civil suits that followed, Judge High Ogden repeatedly ruled in favor of victims over the USIA. Hell yeah. Frequently awarding more to those victims whose suffering had been substantial, too.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Ogden basically awarded $6,000 or nearly $600,000 today to people who were killed immediately, like 10-year-old Maria DeSazio, because she was killed instantly. So he would award that to her family. They deserved that. And according to my good man's Good man. Good name. He said then he gave seven thousand five hundred dollars to people who suffered before they died. Like George Leahy.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
He was trapped in the basement of a firehouse in this little 18 inch crawl space and tried to keep his head above molasses for four hours before he was asphyxiated. Oh, my God. What a horrific way to die. Horrific. Horrific. You can't put a price on that. Oh, no, you can't.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
But the disaster also had a significant influence on the realm of public safety, both in Massachusetts and around the country. Following the flood, new regulations were put in place that, you know, it did a lot, but it would also require architects and engineers to show their work and get their plans signed off on by building inspectors and safety regulators.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
That's crazy that that wasn't already a thing that was happening. No. My good man, Stephen, said the Great Boston Molasses Flood did for building construction standards what the Coconut Grove Fire did for fire standards. It's so wild because the entire time we've been talking about the Molasses Flood, I've been thinking about the Coconut Grove. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Because that was also a devastating event that changed the history of Boston. Of course, yeah. Now, all of those who experienced the Molasses Flood firsthand have since died. And these days, the story kind of rarely comes up in discussion of Boston's history. It really doesn't.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
That means that they've never had something to be that excited about and what we should feel is pity for them. So make sure that you are excited about the things you should be because you have earned your excitement. Everybody's just looking for something to be excited about. Yeah, what are we on this planet for if you can't get excited about shit? I thought, you know, like... Get excited.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
But thanks to my good man, Stephen Paleo, and local journalists, those who lost their lives in the Great Molasses Flood of 1919 remain remembered today, thankfully, because they won't let them forget. No, that's an important story to tell. And it's Stephen Puello, I think it is. Puello, I believe it is.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yeah, I think I said it wrong. I apologize if I said it wrong. My good man, Stephen. Wow. We're linking all his sources in the show notes, so you can definitely go take a look at what he has to say. Go support the good man. My good man, Stephen.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
with his good name wow that is a tragic fucking tale it's a very tragic tale and it really is interesting though wild that they don't there should be in massachusetts at the very least it should be a whole section in history i mean think of how much time which again we should yeah we spend on the salem witch trials because we're in the area and i never ever learned about
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Teach people about this because it's also, it's a good lesson in how doing things quickly and cutting corners can lead to absolute catastrophe. Yeah, disastrous events. Yeah. Wow. So that...
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
is the tale of the great molasses flood in boston well thank you so much for that as tragic as it was it was definitely fascinating tale yeah you can read up more about it yeah a little deviation from like murder which is always nice yeah it's just it's a different kind of tragedy yeah one that is interesting and needs to be talked about more yeah because those people need to be remembered yeah for sure but as always we hope you continue no what we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
You know how weird to keep it. Yeah, just don't cut corners. No. Whole ass everything. Don't half ass things.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And get excited about whatever the fuck you want to. I'm excited. And I hope you all have shit to be excited for. Yes. I hope you do. Big, small, medium, in between. Doesn't matter. I'm manifesting that for all of y'all. I got a new couch and I am fucking stoked about it. Get excited about it. Go crazy. I just start jumping on the couch like Tom Cruise. Celebrate that.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
You just slide through the living room in your underwear. I just might. I just might. You can do...
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
i love it was that risky business yeah risky business yeah all all the tom cruise you know it's so funny i'm of the age that that just makes me think of um rob's character never been kissed oh my god yeah that's also a great one a great movie but wow don't ever think too deeply about it no definitely don't just take it for what it is it's pretty horrifying when you think about it at its core yeah watching that as an adult for the first time you're like oh oh
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this right here, this little thing you're listening to, is Morbid! Morbid! This is morbid. I was trying to sound like Victoria from The White Lotus. Thank you. There you go. I think that's her name, Parker Posey's character. I have no idea. I haven't watched that yet. Oh, I know. I don't.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
that's so cool and then i watched it as an adult for the first time like a few years ago and i was like oh no it's dark as fuck it is it's dark but i love it it's a horror movie at its core it's a horror movie that scene at the prom when they're dancing no the no It's Erase and Rewind. I have been obsessed with that song since I was like six years old because of that movie.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
That's a diabolical scene. That's the thing. It's rough. It's different. But you know what? I'm going to talk about something pretty terrible right now. Well, it is morbid. So... Coming off of a really sneakily horrifying movie, we're going to go into something that is equally sneakily as horrifying. Oh, is it? Molasses. What? Yep.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yeah, like straight up molasses. We're going to talk about Boston's Great Molasses Flood of 1919. If you've ever been on a duck tour, you know they mention it. Come on to Boston. We'll tell you all about it. We will. Oh, my God. Do a duck tour. It's so fun. Do a duck tour if you come to Boston. It's a lot of fun.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And you get a lot of nifty little history facts. You'll learn a lot. You do. Also, do some of the... I'm not... We're not being paid by, like, the city of Boston to do this. I'm just, like, if you're... Those walking tours, too. Oh, my gosh. I love those. A lot of them are fun. They are. They dress up like, you know, like they're from the period. Yeah. Like Minutemen. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
You know, the revolution, all the fun stuff. Do it.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Study the revolution. This was not... great at all uh and it's like one of it's remembered and it's mentioned but i feel like it's lesser remembered and mentioned as we go on i didn't learn about this in school yeah which is pretty actually the first time i ever learned about this was on a duck tour Yeah, see, and that's crazy.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
The fact that we don't talk about this, like, it's a wild story, and it had a high death toll. This was a tragic, tragic event that happened in Boston. I don't know a lot about it. Yeah, it caused an unbelievable damage to one of the city's oldest neighborhoods, and it injured more than 150 people. Damn. And 21 people died. Yeah, that I didn't know. Including children.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
There were children that died. I mean, not, you know, like, in one life over the other, but, like, it's awful. Yeah. And again, for an event that was so like remarkable and very strange, like it's a strange event.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
A molasses flood, like that's weird. It's still kind of unknown exactly what caused it to happen. It happened at the Purity Distilling Company. Their molasses storage tank was the one that burst and dumped its contents across the North End. And it really is one of Boston's most... bizarre pieces of history and folklore to this day. It's so tragic and so bizarre.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Boston has a lot of bizarre history, actually. We're pretty bizarre. We're bizarre. We're bizarre, kid. So by the final months of 1918, Boston, like many other cities around the United States, Had been through it. Been through it. That summer, the influenza pandemic hit the city really hard, and there were more than 200 deaths by the end of the season.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Thousands more were going to be lost before things were even under control. It was really bad. The pandemic had forced a lot of the theaters, nightclubs, and restaurants to close down. We've seen that before. We've seen that repeat. Yep. And the city cemeteries had been forced to erect like circus tents essentially on the grounds in order to hide the backlog of unburied coffins from public view.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yeah. That's brutal. Yeah. It was as though there was nowhere in the city that somebody could go to just avoid reminders of tragedy, loss, and hardship. It was not a good time. Yeah.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Now, in addition to the calamity caused by the flu, the end of World War I presented a lot of challenges to those whose businesses had been forced to kind of like pivot and reorient themselves to accommodate increased manufacturing needs of the military. The United States Industrial Alcohol Company, the USIA is what I'll call them.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
For example, they had been one of the nation's largest producers of industrial alcohol for the military during the war years. But with the demand for munitions kind of dropping in the final months of the war, the USIA kind of found themselves in a position of having to, again, pivot the other way and develop new products and strategies just to remain in business.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Now, before the war, a certain percentage of USIA's output was grain alcohol, and many on the company's board felt that the shift back to producing grain alcohol was precisely the type of quick pivot necessary to keep this company going, at least for a short term. Yeah. The problem, though, was that retooling the Cambridge plant to produce grain alcohol was going to take a lot of time.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
It takes me a long time for. I don't know if it's your bag. I don't. Every time someone mentions it, I'm like, maybe. Yeah. I don't know why it doesn't. I love it. And it's like a great show. I would recommend. I would Rebecca Nend it to most people. I was going to say, I don't know if.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And the production of the liquor itself took time, and time was not something that a lot of people had.
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Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yeah, it was in short supply at that time. The constitutional amendment banning the manufacture and sales of alcohol in the U.S. had passed both houses the previous December and was set to go into effect in January 1920. Oh, no. That meant USIA would have just a little more than a year of production before ceasing operations completely. So they needed to get out all they could.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Yeah, they got to get out. But the company, you know, determined that if they could distill a sufficient amount of alcohol in the first quarter, they would have enough time to get it bottled and shipped out before prohibition went into effect, thereby saving the company. That November, USIA's company secretary, Arthur Gell, placed a large order for molasses from Cuba.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
This was going to be scheduled to be delivered in mid-January 1919. That gave Gell and the company enough time to retrofit the Cambridge plant, you know, like get it ready to do this kind of production, to caulk the massive storage tank on Commercial Street, which was on Boston's Wharf, and develop a schedule for round-the-clock production once the molasses actually arrived.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Now, Jell had been integral to the operations and really all the strategic planning of the company and had also been instrumental in guiding them through what was really like uncertainty in the war years. Like he helped them kind of stay the course. So if anyone could pull off the temporary orientation of this plant, it was going to be Jell.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
maybe now to those who'd lost their jobs to the pandemic closures or you know so weird to hear that it really is like history really does repeat itself it surely does and so they either lost it to the the pandemic closures or they lost it for you know in the downturn of demand for manufacturing the usia's new production strategy even if it was temporary was a welcome piece of news to them because they were like i'll take anything at this point
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
The retrofit of the distillery and the resealing of the tank meant dozens, if not hundreds of new job opportunities were now arising. Which is great. And these were job opportunities for metal workers, machine operators, and plant hands, all of whom were going to be working like round the clock overtime to get everything done on this like really tight turnaround timeline.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
Still, filling these positions wouldn't be as easy as it would be under normal circumstances because, again, the outbreak of the pandemic had kind of knocked out countless ordinary able-bodied workers. So it's not like everybody was ready to jump back to work. So Jell was going to have to take what he could if he was going to have everything ready on time. He just had to work with it.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
i don't know if you would love it you don't know if i like it no i mean maybe i'll give it a shot i mean go for it you like do it you're your own person you're alive live your best life bitch um but i love i'm liking this season and i was just playing elena a clip of uh parker posey's interview where she does all her weird voices her southern accent Tsunami. Tsunami. Well, that was a good one.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
So already we're seeing like, uh-oh. Yeah, not great to start out like that. And I'm sure this isn't shocking, but unfortunately, significant problems presented themselves almost immediately. Oh, goody. The North End tank, which was to hold the molasses when it arrived, had been pretty hastily built in 1915 to meet the unexpected demands of war. I feel like you don't want to hastily build a tank.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
A giant tank. Yeah. And you don't want to do that. And even a tank, really. No. No. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in-person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which adds up pretty fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session.
Morbid
Episode 657: Boston’s Great Molasses Flood of 1919
And this month, BetterHelp is giving you the biggest discount on starting therapy that I have ever offered on this show with 90% off your first week. Guys, don't miss this. Thank you so much for having me. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists anytime. Your well-being is worth it.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Whenever it's like no rhyme or reason to the ransacking, it's definitely staged. And nothing is missing. And nothing is missing.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And what a badass. Oh, yeah. Organizing four very active young children's lives, that alone is hard to do. And then you add on being the den mother, being a part of the Boy Scout troop, a leader of the Brownie troop. Teaching stuff at church. Teaching a kindergarten class. Being a member of the choir. A president of the Women's Association. Like, she's literally everything.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Yeah. I can barely handle my shit, and I don't have half of that. I don't even have kids, and I don't know what I'm doing half the time.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And she's like a young mom. Yeah. What's she getting into?
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Carol seems like the type of woman who, when she does something, she fucking... Yeah, she doesn't half-ass anything. No, Carol whole-assed everything, and you can see that.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
I did wonder when you said like she dropped out of school and they got married.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And it's like, obviously that absolutely, if that was her choice and she was happy with that choice, then more power to her.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
I just wondered. I had like a weird little pinch. Well, it seems sudden too.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
So I wonder, because I don't know if it's going to go any further than that, but I'm like, it sounds like they were just like good friends. Yeah. Like legitimately good friends and maybe on his end he liked her.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And you're like, you know, I kind of get like, I can see. Yeah, I get territorial. Because you think there's varying degrees of appropriateness when it comes to a relationship like that, when you're married especially. So it's like, I can understand that from an outside point of view, it can be like, oh, you know, they're just like, that's a nice friendship. And then I'm like, but you know what?
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
This is Morbid. And it's before Thanksgiving, but for you guys it's after Thanksgiving, I think. Isn't that weird? So we have not given thanks yet. Thank you. But because you have, I hope you had fun. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
If you're in the relationship, it's probably going to look a little different.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Oh, you gotta go. That's it. I don't know how this ends, so I'm not going to sit here and I'm not going to dog on somebody and say that it's definitely them.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Different life insurances from different companies and this happens?
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
That would make my red flags go flappy, flappy, flappy.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Which, like, okay, yeah, that all sounds great. Yeah. Why do you have eight?
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
That's the thing. Like, you're not answering my question. Yeah. Cotton. The most is six.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
We'll stay thankful for you. It'll be a whole thing.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Yeah, so he knows that's going to make him, but also it's like, they're going to find them. Yeah, that's the thing. So just be upfront and be like, listen, I know you're going to find these things and you're going to question me about them, so let me get ahead of it.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And now he's got to call and be like, yeah, that gun piece found at that murder scene, that's my gun. But I promise you I wasn't there. Now he's got to go through the whole rigmarole.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
I know. A lot of people would be like, I'm not getting wrapped up in that.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Can all of these men stop stealing other people's shit? They literally cannot and will not. Yeah, sticky fingers Magoo gang here.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Like, how did that connect? When I said earlier, like, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have connections to organized crime. She doesn't. Whoa. But somehow they know about her.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
That just means more for you. It sure does. My kids like the vanilla ones with me.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Can you imagine how excited the investigators felt after going through this whole thing and finally getting this fucking gun, this murder weapon, in the middle of the woods? Like, can you imagine how... It must be the most insane feeling to finally get there.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
They pulled that thread and kept pulling it, and to end up with the actual murder weapon in the middle of the woods is wild for me.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
He had this motherfucker come into his house while his children were still in this house. His four children. He had a mobster with a fucking rap sheet sneak into his goddamn house while his kids were in there. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
This is like, I'm feeling so betrayed lately from my, the people I love the most, what they love and what they don't love. Why? What else happened? Because you just said that. And then John, we were finishing up Follow the House of Usher.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Dick Anderson is like the guy who they were like, this doesn't even make sense that he's connected to all these criminals because he's like a petty thief.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
He's the one that you wouldn't even, my goodness. You wouldn't even expect him. That's the thing. And he's a brutal fucking monster.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
The other night, Mike Flanagan. I want to watch that. And he was like, yeah, I'm not like really into this. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he wasn't into Midnight Mass either. And he was like, and then he said the words. And Mike Flanagan, if you're listening. He didn't mean it. Mike Flanagan, if you're listening, you have a fan in this house. It's me. Not John.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Oh, what a piece of actual fucking shit. He had his son do it. You put that on your kid? Yep. Like, fuck this guy into oblivion. Into oblivion. Fuck this guy.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
He had a man, a criminal, who he has no idea what he's capable of hiding his house while his kids are walking around upstairs. He has zero moral compass.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
But John was like, yeah, I don't know if I really like Mike Flanagan's stuff. And I was like, I don't know how to accept that. Did you say, I don't know who you even are. I'm just not sure how you watch two things with Kate in it that is made by... Mike Flanagan. You said two things with Kate? Kate Siegel. Kate, okay. His wife. Oh, okay. Who's in both of them. Okay. Who's a phenomenal actress.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
But regardless... It's the perfect time for that tune. It's 1963 especially.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Wow, so he's just like a literal slimy piece of... Fucking dung. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Yeah, just, like, someone that pays attention and is kind to her.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Which makes me even angrier that that motherfucker was out there doing everything he wanted and he was being that possessive.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
And here I was being like, oh, yeah, you know, like, I guess when you're in the relationship. But he was doing whatever the fuck he wanted out there in those streets. Yeah, whoever and whatever.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Exactly. She just has a male friend and you're, ugh. Literally just a friend. Fuck you, Cotton.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
She's just chef's kiss. And tell me you're not really into them. I don't understand that way of living.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Yeah, and I mean, those policies were set to expire the following month.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Well, and he wants all this fucking money. It's like you're making that money.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
It's not like you're struggling. It's not like one of these situations where it's like the family is struggling financially and they're like last, you know, and it's obviously it's never okay. But in those situations, there's a desperation factor that like plays into it.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
We're going to try again because I refuse to accept it, so I think I'm too afraid.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Why the fuck are you being so specific? Yeah, it's like, girl, come on. First of all, stop fucking a married guy. And second of all, when he's giving you a time frame, you got to wonder. You got to wonder what that time frame implies.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
No. Guys, we got to use the stuff between your ears here.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
So some guy, some high-powered defense attorney... who's like fucking everything with two legs, is out here telling you that he's got to get 85 life insurance policies on his wife, his young wife, his young healthy wife. His family, too. And he's got to do it quick, quick, quick, quick. And you know why? He had a vision. You know, it's so weird.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
I just have this weird vision that she's going to meet with a tragic accident and die. And none of you sat there and said, you know what? We might want to call someone and maybe put some tabs on that guy because I feel like that's shady behavior.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
They were just like, sure, sign it here. I'll get my check. Okay, cool. It's all money. Everyone's just like, whatever. I got paid. Yep. Money talks.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
An eccentric for life insurance. Like what? Hello? Are we really just giving them that? So we're really just like not taking all the responsibility off him.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
That's what I don't get. Like, I'm like, I could never, I can't imagine causing harm to John. No. Or having someone else cause harm to John. For money. Emotionally, physically, anything. Anything, but for money. Like, I, and it, like, I just can't, I can't even picture, I can't even picture the thinking that money is going to, like, Like, that you're going to hold that money and feel good.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Like, what is wrong with you? I think he would have. You have to be dead inside.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Especially on his birthday, because I was like, I do hate that he got to die peacefully in his sleep.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
He got to, like, at least be out. Yeah, that pisses me off. He got a lot of time on the other side.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
You're gonna die on your birthday if you do some fuck shit, okay?
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
That's the thing. Like, you'd be constantly thinking, like, why didn't I just ignore that? But it's like, why would you ever ignore that? And especially in 1963, you're not disobeying your father when he tells you to do something. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
definitely not like that was just you did what you were told yeah by a parent who is supposed to be a safe place and that you are supposed to feel comfortable doing what you're told and why would you question that you know like he said like they never locked that door so he did kind of question it but he's not gonna out loud question it and he's not gonna sit there and think okay he's having me lock that because he's gonna have my mom killed and he doesn't want her to escape like that's not gonna be in your head you can never come up with that that's your worst nightmare
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
I'll wait to watch it with you. It's a banger of a miniseries. It's only eight episodes. And he is... Mike Flanagan's brilliant. And so is his wife.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
But I feel like you... TV show wise, I'm saying. He just has a way. And he... The atmosphere that he creates in his shows and movies, I think you will appreciate in a big way.
Morbid
Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson
Oh, she's the one who said, like, I think something's going on over there.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion. No ads, just you and early access to new episodes. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Because outside of this man, she has... so much worth. She does, you know?
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
See, in here, it's like... He's being clear. Yeah. This is clear. It's cruel to say... It's very clear what he's saying, but it's also like, so you were bringing her? Yeah, he had asked her. So it's like... And then said, never mind.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
We'll never understand it. But everyone got it. It's a bonus episode. It was on top of your regular episodes. It already happened for you. But guys, it hasn't happened for me yet. So can you tell me how it went? Okay. Everyone just commented on the eventual post that comes up.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Like, you know, it feels like it's flip-flopping a little bit.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
It's like, what? I'm not a doctor, but she seems a little manic here. Yeah, she seems like there's... I mean, clearly, because she's going through withdrawal symptoms, this is...
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
It went so well. It was great, Elena.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, it's a little unclear, but she's focusing a lot of anger at Lynn. Yeah, and it's like, don't focus it on the gal. The other girl. Focus it on the guy.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I know I did. And Ash, you had fun too. You know what? Right now, I feel it now and I'm like, wow. You feel it coming. I had so much fun. It was fun. It was lovely. It was awesome. It was exciting. It was grand. It was so grand. It was incredible. It's something I... It was meteoric. It was meteoric. I like that. Yeah. It was great, I think. It was like a religious experience.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, this has gone far beyond what it should have gone. Way far beyond.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Oh, yeah. She's dangerous right now.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
This is already very scary that she just like walked into his bedroom. Yeah. While he's sleeping. Yeah. And he's just going to flick the light on. That's literally my worst nightmare.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I'm going to be honest that I probably wouldn't be as nice like that. I'd be pissed. I'm a horrible person.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I think I would say worse. Possibly. I definitely. And if you're saying I'm going to like I was asleep. And you woke me up by walking in my room and flicking the light on and then just talking at me. And I tell you to leave. I'm going to sleep and you just keep talking. Yeah, I'm going to say shut up and go to bed.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That's also how you know that she is very much not thinking clearly here. She's not all there right now. Because this is not... logical behavior.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
One mistress's stuff out. And that's fucked up.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That's really fucked up. It's fucked up of him to do that and it's fucked up of him to have a woman that works for him do that to two other women.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
You know, I hope you guys fucking loved it. I know you did. Of course you did. Because I know you guys. And I know this is like right up your wheelhouse. I don't think it's up your wheelhouse. I think it's in your wheelhouse. I think that's how it goes. Could be both. I got weird with it, which is kind of on brand right now for what is going on.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Like, that's a lot of manipulation.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I don't know. This has escalated to a point.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Maybe shoes. But also, you gotta hum those shoes out a window to get them to go through. Yeah. That's the thing. I don't know if this was simple overshooting of the bed. I think it was humming as hard as you can.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Back it up. I'm not. I'm not. Yeah, I think in a week or so I can properly talk about it and mention what it actually is. And actually, to make sure that I can, because I want to be excited with you guys and you to be able to hear the excitement in real time, we're going to record the intro to that episode that comes out after it right after we record that exciting bonus episode.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I'm just, and obviously there's a little bit of a reason, I guess. I don't know why you would have the gun on your person.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, I just think it's... Unless she had to valet possibly? I just think walking... Into his home. With a loaded gun. The way things have gone and the tense moments you have had together and, you know, this being, oh, the middle of the night where you're going to flick on his light and wake him up. I don't know if having a gun with you is sending the right message, you know?
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
So I feel like it's strange that she was able to just grab that gun out of her purse, but who knows?
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And then we'll get into the episode. So that we can properly capture... The state I'm in. It's going to be interesting. It is. I don't know if you'll be capable of recording anything after that. I'm very excited. Yay. In case you couldn't tell. But it's going to be really fun. You guys can look forward to it, I swear. And yeah, we have some good cases coming up. We got some good stuff coming up.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Two shots have gone off, correct? Correct.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Because, like, you just threw two in there?
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And I definitely wouldn't have extra bullets that I brought with me as well.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
You cannot buy a loaded gun. I didn't think so. In the United States.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I didn't think so either, but I was like, I don't want to claim that I know this for sure.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
This has been a ride so far, just in terms of...
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That does not shock me because it needs a little work from that first one.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Okay. So she put the... She threw it in the glove compartment.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That was my main question.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That doesn't make a lot of sense. That doesn't make any sense. If he has climbed on top of her like she said. Yeah. Yeah. No, none of that makes sense. And the amount of bullets that were shot? Yeah. I don't believe her story.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, to me it's, I mean, it's black and white there.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I mean, I believe that forensic pathologist.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Wow. Which it's like, I don't even know why that would come to play. I didn't even think of that as a possibility. I was more like, oh, it was in the papers. And then people have tried the diet. That's all I thought is like, he's a really popular doctor.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That's a great last name.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
What? She had to know when to switch things over.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, you're going to have, I don't think I can be convinced that you can accidentally shoot someone four times.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And which I, you do have to take into account that there's clearly some psychological break, chemical imbalance happening here, which obviously does not make it okay. No. But it does need to be taken into consideration with, like, what her state of mind was here.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I wonder if this was always going to be a murder-suicide. Yeah. And that she just didn't get to the other part. Yeah, I think that's highly possible. Either backed out of it or didn't have the time to do it.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
To me, this looks like a... A pretty cut-and-dry murder-suicide that was watched.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, but, like, humorous, okay.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Unfortunately, yeah, it does.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, they should have brought something in. I know, I don't know why they wouldn't.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Which you would have hoped would have kind of taken all that energy. I know. But it's not always that easy.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
What a twisty, turny... Damn.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
It was like, that's what it reads to me.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, because she was like, who knows... how many bullets it's going to take to kill him.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And then I need one left over.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
So it just makes sense. You're not going there to take your own life with a purse full of bullets. No. I just don't get that. And a loaded gun. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
You know, like it was just.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
No, I don't think he deserved to die. I think it's like he he was doing what he had always done. And that's people had let him do it for a long time.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And then she kind of let him do it as well until she didn't.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And yeah, it's really, it's sad. None of that had to happen. No, literally none of it at all.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I know it sounded like such a great meet cute. A beautiful love affair at first. I was like, wow, I'm rooting for you two kids.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
And her relationship with High is taxing on her mental health. Yeah. And it's like sometimes having that busy... Of like a professional life can like distract you a little bit, but it doesn't, you know, the second you come out of it, it all comes crashing down.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Like a woman? Is that what, like, what are you talking about? Cool. We wanted someone womanly. What? What? That's all? I guess. That's the requirement?
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. Yo! Yo!
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah. I have feelings about diets for the most part.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I'm just like, why'd you do that?
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That's all it is. It's like... But, girl.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, she is. I feel... It's...
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, and get the fuck away.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Metaphorically. I don't know. I like that.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I also, and just to flip this on its head, did she tell him this is a labor of love for me? I don't know. Because if you don't express that to someone, then they are going to look at it as a professional thing. Yeah. And treat it as such. If you don't express things to people, they can't read your damn mind. That's the thing.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
So there is that whole thing where it's like, yes, I'm sure it was a labor of love for her. But if you do not express that, no one's going to know it. Yeah. So you got to say it. Just to look at it from both sides. Yeah, no, it's important. He was paying her for the book because she did a service.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
That's the thing. I don't think there's a lot of communication. So it's a lot of assuming somebody's going to understand my intention here. Yeah. And that never works out. No, it doesn't. You got to be pretty upfront with people.
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Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
So lots is up. Lots is up. Lots is down. Lots is all around.
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Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Yeah, and at that point, it's like if he is being clear that nothing is coming of this, you got to walk away. Then it does become on you that you're not letting it go. And I do think it got to that point. And that's the thing. It's like there's times when, and again, I don't know what the interactions were or anything like that. No, none of us do.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Because it's shitty when someone's pretending or alluding that there might be something there. Of course, that's going to leave you with a little string of hope. Of course. And when you're in that position of desperation and you love someone and you're, you know, all that, you're going to take anything as a little string of hope. So you don't know what kind of things were dangling in front of her.
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Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
But it does sound like he was at least attempting to communicate that this is a transactional relationship now. And at that point, you need to do the work to get away.
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Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
Because it's been made clear. Yeah, it really has. It's just one of those things. If he's not making it clear, I get why you're hanging on to hope because when you're in that position, nothing's logical. Yeah. But it kind of sounds like it's being made clear. Yeah, and none of this is logical. Well, I was going to say, and even that's not logical. No. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 652: Jean Harris and the Murder of Herman Tarnower (Part 2)
I knew you were going to. You even did the all around with your head. Bring it around. Help. So once again, very cool thing that happened was hanging out with Anna McMahon. Wild. 16-year-old me. Screaming. Literally can't handle it. Screaming. But he's very rad, and it was very nice of him, and we appreciate him. Yes. And so a really, really cool thing as well has already happened for you guys.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And from behind, Jim heard a crack and a bullet grazed his right arm.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He made it to the kitchen, and he flung the refrigerator door open, hoping to shield himself, but another bullet struck him in the left elbow, shattering the bone.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah. So he grasped at the counter for a knife or anything he could use to defend himself, but he didn't find anything, and instead he just charged at Herb. who simply sidestepped and then turned and shot Jim again, this time hitting him in the back. And the bullet this time tore through his lung and sent him crashing into the stairs.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So Jim struggles and gets himself up. Now his lung has been like... Like, a bullet went through his lung. He gets himself up the stairs in order to warn his wife. Oh. He heard the crack of the gun again as he's trying to get up the stairs, and the bullet struck the door jamb above the door and, like, exploded the wood.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Now, Joan had been showering when Herb arrived, and the noise of the water blocked out all the chaos downstairs.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So when she opened the door and stepped into the hallway in a towel... She was shocked to see her husband now stumbling towards her. Blood was pouring from his left side and streaming out of his mouth. Oh my God. He managed to shove Joan back into the bathroom and slammed the door and yelled at her to lock the door. As he's bleeding to death. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he like shoved his wife into the bathroom to like protect her. Oh my God. And from inside the bathroom, Joan heard the gunfire two more times. One bullet hit Jim in the stomach and the second went through his back and struck his heart and killed him.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
No idea who this man is. Now, from inside the bathroom, so Herb could hear Joan hysterically sobbing from inside the bathroom.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
We're coming up on our 666th episode.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And so he just broke down the door with his hands and feet, just kicked open the door.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah. Once inside, he aimed the gun at Joan and fired three times quickly, hitting her twice in the neck and once in the face just above her left eye.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He was never fully confident that a gun was sufficient for the purpose of sacrifice. So he decided to take out his hunting knife that he had with him too and stabbed Joan in the back three times, once for each bullet.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He then collected the shell cases from the bathroom floor.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yep. And from the hallway. And then proceeded downstairs to collect the rest of them. And he stuck the gun back into his waistband. And then he noticed that a button from his coat was missing. But he was like, eh, whatever. And he just left the house. Good. Now, back at the Francis house, remember Kathy, who originally opened the door, I would like to give a quick trigger warning.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Back at the Francis house, her two children had woken up, and Kathy was doing her best to get 9-year-old David and 4-year-old Damon ready for the day. Yeah. 9-year-old Damon had had a cold the last few days, and he looked like he was going to be staying home from school one more day. So she went out into the yard and found some kindling to get the fire started in the stove.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
She had just put down some breakfast for the boys when she heard a knock at the front door. When she opened it, she was looking down the barrel of Herbert Mullen's gun. Oh my god. Kathy didn't even have time to say a word before Herb fired the gun and hit her straight in the head. Killed her immediately.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He stepped over her, and he entered and closed the door behind him, and he thought he was going to find a husband or a boyfriend in the house, and he realized that he heard voices, but they were children's voices. So just to just to be clear, remember before he was saying that he was considering like how morally wrong this felt and he wanted to find a morally righteous way of doing this.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
I don't know what happened here. He didn't stop to think about, you know, the moral implications of killing children here because he simply raised the gun and fired twice and hit both of them in the head, killing them instantly.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And we got some good news yesterday for the near future.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Then he walked around and stabbed each of them with the hunting knife to make sure that he had properly sacrificed them.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah. Now, unlike the three previous victims who had yet to be linked, investigators immediately suspected the Gianneras and the Francis's had been killed by the same person because there was a personal connection between the victims and similar circumstances under which they had been killed. Yeah. Right, it happened so quickly. Right. Right.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
oh yeah some some good good things not me being like what you're like what's she talking about what did we learn yesterday yeah yeah wonderful things so that there's you know i'm looking forward to that oh we watched um a very interesting movie on scream this is just a random thing to tell you guys because in case you haven't listened to scream over here ash picked it so good
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And a press release the following day, Sheriff Doug James stated there appear to be drug overtones in the case. And when they did finally locate Robert Francis, he was ruled out immediately as a suspect. Yeah. Now, not wanting to cause panic, Santa Cruz police captain Dick Overton urged residents to, quote unquote, keep cool. Stay cool, man. Babe. Just stay cool. Don't be all like uncool.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he said, just go about your daily lives as normal. Keep cool. Two families have been slaughtered, but like. Yeah. Keep it chill, man. And also he said, this is not a case of somebody running amok and shooting people.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
This thing has a pattern to it. It's not a case of some crazy man running around shooting people. No, that's literally exactly what it is, sir. And what basis do you have to state otherwise? So since the murders of the Ota family two years earlier, we talked about them in part one.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And the recent disappearances of a local, a number of local college girls. Thanks to Ed Kemper. Santa Cruz residents had started arming themselves. I would. Which Overton knew increased the potential for an accidental shooting to happen.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
But while his desire to avoid, you know, like panicking the public and having some accidents happen that could have some real consequences, he was very wrong because this was one of the rare incidences of someone, quote, running amok and shooting people at random. This literally was. Yeah. Now, the more time that passed, the more kind of like adept Herbert got at justifying his murders.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He was able to convince himself that, which shows you also that he was doing some real mental gymnastics here to make it. Yeah. It's like you just shot and killed two kids. What are you doing? Exactly. An investigator's inability to connect the crimes only served as further evidence of his divine purpose in his mind. Because he's not getting caught. Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
By February, he had stopped taking drugs altogether and replaced his drug use with long hikes in the mountains around Santa Cruz. Which...
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
my goodness i wish you had done that your whole life yeah just do that instead literally take a hike yeah take a hike now on the morning of february 10th he went out for a hike in henry cowell state park just off highway 9 not far from where lawrence white's body was discovered and these hikes he said gave him time away from his parents you know gave him peace gave him a little quiet made his head feel clear why the fuck were you doing this forever
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So he loved these. Like, this was his moment of, like, peace. Yeah. So he was very irritated when he came across four teenagers camping in the woods that morning.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah, how dare they do a thing they're allowed to do. In nature. Like what? Yeah. The teens, 18-year-old David Olicker, 18-year-old Robert Spector, 19-year-old Brian Scott Card, and 15-year-old Mark... Drabelbis, I believe is how you say it, had come to the area a few days earlier and they'd been living at like, like they'd made themselves like a little lean to. Oh, okay.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And when he came upon them that morning, he was absolutely disgusted because he saw a bunch of trash around the large tent and he intended to speak to them about it. So his initial thought was not to immediately kill them.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Which is also interesting. Or so he says, right? Well, he doesn't initially. Like this isn't the first thing he does. Okay. So he stands outside the tent and he coughs loudly to get their attention. And so they all made their way out of the tent and he tells them you're on public property and it's illegal to camp here and you're polluting the woods with your garbage. Okay. Pick it up.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So they are teenage boys. So they mocked him. Yeah. which only made Herb angrier with them. So he told them he was a park ranger and he was giving them until the next day to clear out the area or they'd be arrested. Okay. Which is so weird. Yeah, that is weird. You know, so he left the area and he continues his hike, but he just couldn't get this interaction out of his mind.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And I think it's worth throwing it over here in case you haven't been listening to Scream. You should. It's fun. Go listen to Scream. What the hell are you doing? Caleb's a goddamn hoot. A hoot and a half even. He's a hoot and a half. A hoot and a half. And, you know, we take suggestions for movies and we also pick our own. It's a lot of fun over there. We don't take it too seriously.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
This is where the, like, the illness comes into play, I feel. Yeah. This is just me, like, speculating, of course, from afar. Because it feels like he had, like, a moment of clarity of just being, like, a curmudgeon there and just being, like... Like, you dumb kids. What are you doing? And he was leaving. And then as he's leaving, it's like it clouded again.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And neither will you. nobody will but it's really fun so go go listen but if you haven't yet and you're like what are you talking about ash her pick for the movie um last week was a movie called hellbender it was so fun it is such a cool movie i'm looking up the girl on tiktok who recommended it originally it's kate it is feral pisces
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And it's like that rain cloud set upon his brain and was like, no, no, no. Like, you need to be rational here. So it's very interesting to see how this all played out. Yeah, it's like an urge that he just can't fight against. Yeah, it's very strange. So he can't stop thinking about it. In his head, here he is doing everything he can to protect the world from this impending natural disaster.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And these teens are just throwing garbage all over the place and then mocking him when he shares his concerns about the environment. What the fuck?
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Under a normal circumstance, you would be like, yeah, that does suck.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
If he was like a regular Joe, you know, you'd just be like, wow. Damn, what a shitty day. Yeah, you'd be like, man, like, wow. But him, you're like, fuck you, dude. Yep. So at first it occurred to Herb that he could just go back to the campsite and kill them all. And then he was like, you know what? I can't do that because this would be a personal grievance and not keeping with my mission.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Wasn't the last murder a personal grievance? Thank you. You're welcome. Because Jim was the first person to give him a joint, which he considered the beginning of all this. Which is a personal grievance by definition. Yeah, like that's not part of your mission. Maybe he was feeling...
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
some type of way about that yeah i think he's just um scattered a lying sack of shit and i think that he by his own admission he knows how to convince people of certain things knows how to convince people that he's okay to be let out of a hospital Well, and remember... Knows how to convince people to let him in the military. He was really smart. He's very smart.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he's very manipulative. Yeah. He admitted it himself. That's how he got out of the hospital. Like, hospitalizations every time. Multiple, yeah. So this, to me, feels like...
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
him later being like oh well this is why i didn't do it to make it seem like i'm still under that fog of like i have a personal mission like trying to make sure he stays in that narrative yeah but he forgot that he had fucked it up already like i think this is one of those like oops gotcha gotcha yeah yeah Because that makes no sense. No, it doesn't.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So over the course of the afternoon, he kept obsessing over this interaction, slowly convincing himself, of course, that while he had, you know, it had been a bad interaction with him, with these kids, the fact remained that they were polluting the planet. So sacrificing them to him felt like it made sense. He eventually convinced himself that this was okay. Okay. Okay.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So later that night, he came back under the cover of darkness, came back into the park. Damn. He hiked back out to the campsite and approached it. He wanted to catch them off guard. This is so scary. Because they probably thought nothing else after he left. They forgot about him completely, I bet. Like that just wasn't even a blip on their radar.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
But the fire was still burning when he found the camp. And inside the tent, he could hear them chatting and laughing with each other. Yeah. So armed with a .22 caliber pistol, he approached the tent and started unfastening the snaps that held the flaps closed. Oh, my God. He startled them, obviously.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And as soon as the tent opened, none of them had a chance to say a word because he just started firing.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
and all six shots hit their intended targets each of them got hit in the head oh they all crumpled to the ground in a literal pile of bloody bodies oh that's awful and they're all these are young kids oh yeah they're teenagers and it's like they're in a pile now in this tent with down feathers everywhere because he shot through pillows tattered sleeping bags like what an awful scene
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So after shooting the boys, he went through their pockets and took whatever money they had on them.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
What did that do? I thought this was all for like higher moral purposes. And then he just tossed their wallets on the ground and left. And oh, he also grabbed a rifle that he found in the corner of the tent because he said they didn't need it anymore.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Very innocent people. Chosen mostly at random. Yeah. Since then, his mental health had deteriorated considerably. And it seemed like no matter what he did, the voices in his head were there, just demanding more. Supposedly.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Because I too follow Kate on TikTok. We love a feral Pisces. That's her TikTok handle is feral Pisces. She's great to follow.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Just three days after killing the boys in Henry Cowell State Park, he was out for a drive in Santa Cruz when the voice came into his thoughts again, demanding another sacrifice. This is according to Herbert Mullen, by the way.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
It's ridiculous. Sorry, go ahead. No, don't worry. Just needed to say that. I'm glad you said it. So he's driving through Santa Cruz. He hears a voice saying, you need to make another sacrifice. And at first he said he thought about resisting. But instead he just pulled a U-turn and headed back into a quiet neighborhood that he'd just driven through. Oh.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
As Herb drove slowly down the street, he spotted 72-year-old Fred Perez. Are you kidding me? He's just standing on the sidewalk. He was a longtime resident of Santa Cruz. He had once been a successful heavyweight prize fighter.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Before retiring from boxing and using his winnings to go into business for himself.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
As a truck driver and a fishmonger. His businesses were successful. He was able to provide for his family. And then finally he passed the business down to his kids a few years later. Aww. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
I think it's got, like, the DNA of, like, that kind of vibe. Yes. You know, like, it's a very unique story. Uh-huh. The people who make it are, like, a family. So they have, like, a really unique story. And I think they're, like, the Addams Family, literally.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Like, their last name is Addams. And, uh... They're really good at what they do. I think they do a great job, and I think they tell stories really differently. It's fun. There's another movie that they did. I can't remember. Where the Devil Roams, I think it's called.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
That we're going to cover next week on Scream. I'm excited for that. Yeah, I'm very excited about it. So again, this is literally just us being like, hey, this is a cool thing that we thought we would pass on to you. So if you're looking for like an interesting, really spooky, really cool movie. Like something you've never seen before.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
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Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah, that's just going to make you go, huh, what the fuck afterwards? But like in the best way, Hellbender.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
His testimony was often unfocused, very incoherent, frequently contradicted himself, you know, that kind of thing. For example, when asked why he killed the four young campers in the woods, he said, quote, I had been arrested in 1968 for camping in possession of marijuana, and it bothered me that they should get away with it. I'm sorry, what? I thought it was the polluting. Yeah.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Like, what are you talking about? And at no point earlier did he say they had marijuana on them. No. And it's like, now you're saying that you were annoyed that they were allowed to camp there and you got in trouble for it, so you killed them?
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah, like, hello? Yeah. And in that way, he said he was enforcing the law. No, that's not how the law works actually at all. But then only a short time later, he said something different about it. He said he, quote, received a telepathic message from the young men saying it was all right to kill them. So he did.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
weirdly a beautiful story it is yeah like not but yeah but yes but yes at the end so give it a shot i just thought that was like a fun little little thing yeah good call you guys you know we're always trying to tell cool stuff i want to watch that movie again i do too it's great but unfortunately we have to talk about this shit stain i know but at least like i feel he gets apprehended in this part
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he tried to come up with a reason for it.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
On August 19th, the jury deliberated briefly before finding Herb guilty on two counts of first degree murder and eight counts of second degree murder, effectively removing the question of diminished capacity from the case. The jury appears to have recognized that he definitely struggled with mental illness. No one is disagreeing with that.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
But they believed there was sufficient evidence to suggest he knew what he was doing and he knew that it was morally and legally wrong.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He got rid of the whole friends. He got rid of children because he knew they could point and say he showed up at my door. Right. Like, come on. In a statement to the press, Herbert Mullen's attorney said he felt the jury had not wanted to find him criminally insane because he might end up being released at some point in the future.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He told reporters, if a man found innocent by reason of insanity went to a hospital and was never going to get out, I think we'd have a lot more insanity verdicts. I don't think that's the case. I think they think he knew what he was doing was wrong. And baby girl, why don't you look up the definition of legally insane? Exactly.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Like, don't sit here and try to say, like, they just don't want him to get out of prison and get out of the hospital. It's like, no, we're just looking at the definition of legally insane. And depending on the jury, like, that is just such a cop out.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Like, fuck you. Like, you failed. Well, and also just days after the verdict, jury foreman Ken Springer wrote a letter to the governor expressing his outrage that no one had intervened to prevent this loss of 13 lives. Like, no one had intervened in Herbert Mullen's life and made this stop. Yeah.
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Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He wrote, I hold the state executive and state legislative offices as responsible for these 10 lives as I do the defendant himself. None of this need ever have happened. And he cited his multiple hospitalizations and releases as missed opportunities to keep a killer off the street.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah. He wrote in the letter, according to testimony at his trial, Herbert Mullen could and did respond favorably to treatment of his mental illness. Yet the laws of the state certainly prohibit officials from forcing continued treatment of his illness. And I have the impression that they, as a matter of fact, discourage continued treatment by state and county institutions. Probably.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Which, like, all right, Ken. I know. Like, good for you writing to your governor and being like, fuck y'all. Like, these 13 people didn't have to die. More people need to do shit like that. Yeah, because it's like there's a this is a failure on many levels. Herbert Mullen was ultimately sentenced to life in prison and sent to Mule Creek State Prison and loaned to serve out his sentence.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He tried many times to gain parole, but he was repeatedly deemed unsuitable by the parole board and denied. While at Mule Creek, he corresponded regularly with supporters outside the prison. That's absolutely fucking bonkers. And even attempted to find a wife. Did he? No. Good. In 1987, he placed an ad in the Scotts Valley Banner. Why is that allowed? And he wrote, seeking an Irish wife.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he described himself as 40 years old. I'm 14 years in prison. I desire to sire children now. No, thank you. You killed children.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
I know. Also saying sire children is fucking nuts. I gotta go. On August 18th, 2022. Yeah, recently. Herbert Mullen died of natural causes at the California health care facility in Stockton at 75 years old. Unfortunate. It's very unfortunate.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Very, very unfortunate. I hate that he got to live. I do too. Because also he outlived Fred Perez and that makes me angry because Fred was 72. Yeah. I'm like, fuck you.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Well, you always have to see what they look like, too. Yes, that is a trip. That is a trip if you look him up.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
should he be able to take a class and you know maybe better his mind a little bit exactly but like that kind of thing but putting out a personal ad like really we're trying to do that like come on no absolutely not ridiculous
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He came off almost clean cut. No, literally. Yeah, he did. You know, like he very much was. It's actually interesting that they called him the hippie killer. Because he doesn't look like a hippie. So he's called the hippie killer, I think not because he's the hippie in this scenario. For killing hippies? While he had some hippie ideals, he also had disdain for hippies. Oh, okay.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So I think this is like a double-edged sword here.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah, he was very confused. Yes. I would say. Yeah. And what we'll see with Herbert Mullen, too, is he is mentally ill, obviously.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
But he is not insane. He knows what he's doing.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah. And we will see instances where he covers up things or makes sure he takes bullet casings. Right. He doesn't have diminished capacity in the sense that he doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. Yeah. So you can hold on to that as like, fuck this guy. Yeah. Yeah. But the last we talked about him, he had, you know, he had killed Mary Guilfoyle. He had killed Lawrence White.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He had killed a literal priest in a confessional. Yep. And he is now wondering whether he is doing things correctly. That's quite a time to ponder that. He's wondering if he's, you know, if this is the mission he's supposed to be taking. And so he starts, and he's also thinking like, okay, I don't think I'm stopping an impending disaster from happening.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So when we last left you, I said that he was also, the voices in his head that he said were in there included his father's voice at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was now considering whether he could find a more morally righteous way to continue this mission of his. You've already killed three people, so it's a little too late. There's no, like, turn back now. Well, and also, like...
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
The mission is to sacrifice, so there's really no morally righteous way to do that. No, there's not. What he was thinking in January 1973 was that he could join the military. Oh. So he tried to convince his father to allow him to join the military, and he submitted an application to the U.S. Marine Corps.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
In Martin Mullen's mind, which is his father, the Marines would give his son some stability, some direction, help him grow out of whatever phase he was in. It's not a phase, Dad. It's not a phase, Dad. But from Herbert Mullen's perspective, the military is kind of ideal for him because he could, one, make his father proud of him finally.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he could also continue what he saw as his important work, saving the world, because he would be in an environment where killing wasn't just permissible. It was kind of expected. Yeah. So he figured that was like the way to make this better. Okay.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Now, having talked to so many doctors in the previous five years or so, he had become really good, and I mentioned this in part one, at like anticipating what people wanted to hear, you know? So like he could, he knew how to work the system. He knew how to get out of stuff. So the initial paperwork and interview phase flew right by. Like he killed it.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
But when it came to the criminal record and drug history part of it... He couldn't talk his way out of that one. Yeah. Can't talk your way out of your own past. No. His criminal record showed several interactions with law enforcement, many of which ended with hospitalization. And he was still actively using drugs, which was going to show up on drug tests. It usually does.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So in just a matter of weeks, his plan to turn his whole life around and manage his responsibilities, it all fell apart. But... Although there was really only one person to blame for not being accepted into the military, he obviously wasn't going to blame himself. He wasn't going to accept his responsibility in this. So this just became yet another paranoid delusion that the world was against him.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
You know, it wasn't his behavior that had caused him to be rejected. It was society's conspiracy to prevent him from the greatness that he was destined for. Totally. So he wasn't just disappointed with this. He was pissed. That's not great. Now, in Herbert Mullen's mind, it wasn't just the universe that was conspiring against him, but it was the drugs. The drugs were conspiring against him?
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Well, they had clouded his mind for years, and he blamed marijuana worst of all. Which is wild work.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
No, no. In his like wildly warped logic, he reasoned that smoking pot was what led him to make his bad choices. Okay. Yeah. It was the pot that was responsible for his bad relationship with his parents. And most importantly, it was what led to so many hospitalizations. It was totally that. Just the pot. Just that. Okay.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So, but again, like his rejection from the military, he couldn't take responsibility for his drug use over the years. It wasn't him who had decided to do this. Instead, he was like, I'm going to place the blame on the person who started me down this road in the first place. Yourself? So a little before 9 a.m.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
on the morning of January 25th, Kathy Francis was just barely awake, just starting her day when she heard not a knocking on her door, but like a tapping. Oh, I hate that. A very light tapping. And she wasn't expecting anyone. It was the morning. So she was like, excuse me, what?
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
She was not happy. So she opened the door and she found a slightly disheveled Herbert Mullen standing in front of her. She kind of knew him. Like, she barely knew him. But she just kind of recognized him by sight, essentially. So she tried to be a little polite because, like, she was kind of like, you know. I think I knew you. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
He had actually come looking for Jim Giannara, who was the former occupant of this house and the guy who had first given Herbert Mullen his first joint back in high school. Okay. Yeah. Wow.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
We have been roasting each other all day. The whole week, really. And it's not just me roasting Ash. Ash is roasting me back. Guys, somebody come get her. She being mean. Nothing has happened since the last time we recorded.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Well, Kathy explained that Jim hadn't lived in the house for a few months and then gave him directions to Jim's new house because he thought he was a friend. Yeah, of course.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Kathy knew who he was like a little bit. Like a complete stranger. Yeah. And like she was like, oh, you're looking for your friend. He kind of made it seem like I'm looking for a friend.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Like, OK. And she was like, oh, it's like a few blocks away. He lives in a different house and then just closed the door and went back to bed. Now, Herbert Mullen got back in his car and drove the seven miles to Jim and Joan Gianera's house on Western Drive.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
This couple had bought the house sometime earlier and had finally finished renovations and were able to move in a few months earlier. Unfortunately, since then, Jim had struggled to find work and they'd run out of money.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
So that January, they'd been living without electricity.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
Yeah. Now, like Kathy Francis, Jim hadn't been expecting anyone that morning. So the knock on the door was a little bit of a surprise. It had been a while since the two of them had seen each other. They went to high school together. But Jim recognized Herbert Mullen immediately, but didn't invite him inside. And out of nowhere, Herbert just said, I'm really pissed about the time I've been wasting.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And Jim was like, sorry, sorry about that. Like, OK, like he was just confused. Like what? And before Jim could say anything back to him, because what the fuck else? What was he going to say? The phone rang. And so he's like, excuse me, I just have to answer the phone really quick.
Morbid
Episode 661: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 2)
And he went in to answer the phone and Herbert walked in the door and closed it behind him. Now, Jim hung up the phone and turned around and was like, what the fuck are you doing in my house I didn't invite you in? Yeah, you can't just walk in here, dude. And he was about to yell at him to leave, and then he noticed the revolver in Herbert Mullen's hand, and he turned to run.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Hey, weirdos. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery Plus. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad-free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad-free only on Wondery Plus.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Like it has nods to the formation of the Bureau of Investigations, which is like blowing, that blew my mind. Just like being in a place that you're like, oh, that didn't exist yet. Like, fuck. And it was also like the end of the Spanish flu that they have a nod to, the beginning of prohibition. I think all those things being tapped at during this really placed you in that time.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
really advanced given the tools that they had at the time yes absolutely we're always talking about that how in these time periods it's like we don't have a camera on every street corner we don't have someone with a phone recording it we don't have a digital footprint we don't have this and that like fingerprinting was still in its infancy you know it took a lot to solve these crimes which makes it more fascinating in my opinion yeah for sure
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Because it's like, how are they catching these people with literally just like boots on the ground detective work here? Like, that's what this is. And, I mean, and also, like, speaking to how they were able to solve this stuff, one of the great themes in this whole thing is women not being passive and seeking out answers.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Damn. Cause she was also the one, first of all, she wouldn't let anything. She wasn't letting that go in the beginning. She was like, I'm pretty sure he's having an affair. Fuck him.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
ignore everything and put it on the back burner she was a product of the time yeah i was just gonna say society was influencing her big time and being like maybe i should just have a baby with him and we can have that you know classic family and i'll just ignore everything you know what fixes a toxic relationship yeah that'll fix things well and like to to prove your point even further like to add to it
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Exactly. And be like, girl, you did it. And while Kat, in the actual case, she didn't team up and go to the extents that she went to in the title, it wasn't her just sitting back and not doing it.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
this stuff like she like we said was the one who was like i'm pretty sure he's having an affair and i'm not letting it go so jb armstrong like let's get going and she even provided additional information and documents to further prove like once it started unraveling she was like oh here's all this shit if that's gonna help you nail him like here it all is like i found some more shit for you and that's her in real life like that she really did do that
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Like, she was vital in unraveling this whole thing because she wasn't, even as a product of that time and society around her at the time, she wasn't a woman who was going to sit down and just be comfortable passively letting these things happen to her. She knew something was amiss right off the bat. She took action right off the bat. And of course, she had no idea why.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Like, no way of knowing how amiss things were. What exactly she was unraveling here. And what she was up against. And it's like, once she found out that there was, like, way more shit than just an affair, that she was like, he could possibly be murdering these women and, like, maybe he was going to murder you.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Instead of, like, just falling apart, which he had every right to do, hearing that kind of news about your fucking husband, she turned around and was like, how can I help? How can I make sure that he doesn't do this to anyone else? And they're like, what a badass.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Which I'm like, could you be more conspicuous? I know. Just carrying around a duffel bag of marriage certificates?
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
yeah i could think of 22 different reasons let me list them out for you because he was described as being like a gnome looking motherfucker ugly like he absolutely was paraphrasing but it was like he was like a gnome like man he has something described him little alfalfa too in his mugshot that i just want to rip off i think just take it right off i mean i don't see it i don't
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Definitely. Like master manipulator.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
At all times he was playing a character. You're playing a role. I do love one of the things I love that they did do in this title is for a brief period of time while I was listening, I was like, uh-oh, are they going to make Kat and Detective Armstrong fall in love? Because I will not be pleased with that. I was worried. Yeah. It felt like that might have been the direction they were going.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And I was like, don't you dare take away her agency like that. But nay. But they didn't do it. They did not do it.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, and just letting her have her own agency and being her own character that was just like being a badass and wasn't trying to fall in love with another guy.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
It did. Because it's not just having this woman be completely in relation to what she's doing with a man.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
god she's correct the code like she got her confirmation i love that too to come to that realization and the amount of people who tried to convince her that these were just other men stealing that lonely heart sad oh the gaslighting the gaslighting was outrageous wait people trying to gaslight a woman that's crazy i've never heard that that actually never happens you guys no it was that's why it's fiction you know
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
You're so crazy. That's us. We're just kooky. That's us. What was yours, Alayna? My badass bitch moment was definitely... I loved when she was hiring J.B. Armstrong. And he was like being like, whoa, whoa, whoa at first. And he's like, because she's like, all right, so what do we need to do? What do you need me to start working on? And he was like, no, no, no, you're my client.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Like I'm the detective here. I'm the investigator. And she was like, actually, no, you're my partner now. We're working together. If you're not willing to treat me as a partner, I'll go find someone who will. And I was like, snap, snap, snap, baby. I was like, yes. She was like, I don't need to be here.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
I'll find somebody who actually respects the partnership and doesn't treat me like a little peon.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, without her, it could have kept going on and on and on for a long time. And to think how many more people he could have killed. Absolutely.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Oh shit.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Oh, that's spooky. Yeah, that's wild. I know. Being in L.A. must be weird that way because so many things have happened there. You're just like surrounded by.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, that's true. No, it's true. And you know the locations of a lot of them mostly.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
So you can just be like, I'm surrounded.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Also, at the end of this whole title, when she speaks the names of all the victims in the court scene... That was chilling. Putting that in there was iconic. And it was so perfect. Like... So ending on that was like, yeah, I love the nod to to the reality. Yeah. And in the true part of this crime, making sure that they were heard as well, because obviously Kat was the focus of the narrative.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Of course. But the fact that they didn't forget about the other victims along the way. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
It's a quick listen.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Exactly.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, except there is one scene of them eating. Just be forewarned.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
So my recommendation for a title to listen to is Sleep Tight by J.H. Markert. I recommend all his titles and all his books, in fact, because I think he's a brilliant horror author. It's a perfect one. It's got like... a creepy little fictional town in it. He's really good at infusing some supernatural elements, but they don't even feel. They feel like they're just reality in it.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
I haven't listened to that yet. Yeah, and he's got a serial killer in this one in a small town. He's a great author. I highly, highly recommend Sleep Tight.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or an Apple podcast or Spotify.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
We're there for you. This title is there for you.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
It's true. Do it. It's a crazy case. Like this case, I went into because it was my episode when we covered it on Morbid. It was my episode. It was my episode. Not yours. It was mine. And when we went into it, I was like, oh, I think I've heard of this. I don't know if I, like, I don't know the details.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
But I was like, oh, this is, like, one of these guys that just, like, abandons women and takes their money. Like, you know, the classic tale. Like an H.H. Holmes-y style guy. So much to hear. And it did kind of feel like he had those vibes to him just because of all the fraud and shit he was committing, like, across society.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
borders and shit and the aliases the alias i like this guy's bonkers oh he is wild and organized i'm like r.i.p walter you would have loved tinder oh my god truly yes that would have made his scheme so much easier because like thinking about like the log books and shit that he had to keep to keep his different wives straight keep track of them yeah and like letters he would Absolutely.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Like he had to keep like his like communication with them straight, what he told one, what he told the other, like the different stories he was telling them about why he was out of town all the time. Like I can't remember what I had for dinner last night.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yes. Stressful. I can't imagine what his nervous system looked like. Oh, it was riddled. It was riddled with anxiety. Maybe it wasn't, though. Maybe he was just totally cool as a cucumber.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
You better believe.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, definitely. He was never really taught to have a strong emotional tie to anything because his own parents treated him like shit. And his mother really treated him like shit. And then, I mean, once he finally got out of there, what was he, 12 years old, I think, when he got out of there and went on his own? It's like then the world treated him like shit.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And obviously that's no validation or like justification for what he did. It's just I think this is why he was able, like you said, to just like shut it off because he was like, well, no one's ever had any connection to me. So why should I have a real connection to anyone else?
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah. Everyone used him for what they could get out of him. So he just decided that that was the life he was going to live. And he did it in the awful way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he could have gone the other way. Plenty of people have. Plenty of people have tragic backgrounds. Plenty of people get treated like shit.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And they go on to be amazing people who are like, I'm not going to continue this cycle. But he's an asshole.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yes, be grateful. These are all steps.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Well, before we get into it even further, I just want to talk really quickly about the writers for this title and the process, because it's really, this is an interesting one. It is. So one of the names you're definitely going to say, wait a second, I know that name. Jim Clemente is one of the authors of this. He's a former FBI profiler who was part of the team that cracked the DC sniper case.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
which is wild yeah that's a big deal he's been part of like huge cases like this guy has flex on flex on flex he's a former New York prosecutor he's a writer and producer for Criminal Minds oh love that show yep He's a podcaster for Real Crime Profile, Best Case, Worst Case, FBI Profilers, and Criminal Archives. He's after our own heart with all those podcasts. He is.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And he's also a consultant for law enforcement and for creative projects that involve his like massive expanse of expertise. And he's just like wildly impressive. Wow. And he had, like, a really tough, like, beginning to life as well. He has a lot of, like, things in his backstory that he could have turned the other way, and he went this way.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
So he's, like, also very inspirational if you read up on him. Definitely. And he was a first responder at 9-11, so. Wow. Yeah. So he's just, how do you even lift that resume? Like, I don't even know how he carries it around with him. Right.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And then his co-author was Peter McDonald, who is an author with 43 books. Like, damn. 43 books.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
The duo of the century.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yes, you get transported. When you can hear the music, like the old-timey, like, oh.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
In LA. Yes.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Oh, and Jim Clemente has it now in his personal collection. Yeah, he got that leather bound tome.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, for sure. And you can tell, like, he does, because it's Joseph Fiennes that plays him, he does a good job of making him...
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Because this is really interesting. Like Spencer said, it's like a super immersive, like you feel like you're there experience. And that definitely goes for some of the actors, like Catherine, played by Karen David, Watsons, played by Joseph Fiennes, and J.B. Armstrong, our guys, Adrian Pasdar. I think the three of them did an amazing job.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
But what really set this whole thing into a different realm, I think, is that how they recorded this. So they recorded live in three different time zones, first of all. Each recording space for each actor, it was set up and movement was choreographed. So the actors would move through the space while the microphone was set in the middle of the room. So all of this would impact the sound.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
So audio was like 3D immersive. You heard the movements that they were making because they were physically making those movements in a room. Like it wasn't put in later or something like that. So you heard them in real time, like very organically.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And I feel like that's a very different and unique style of doing something like this. Definitely.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Literally. That's the thing, you know? Like, we were trying to, we can barely get time to hang out with friends. I know. Just us trying to all get our schedules locked.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Yeah, it's crazy. So what I think also makes like takes this one and kind of like separates it from a lot of titles is the way that the this is obviously inspired by a true crime case. And they kept a lot of it very true to what happened and the way that they kind of like fictionalized parts of it to me didn't impact the case in a way that was like negative.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
I think I think if anything, it only made it easier to follow. I definitely agree. Like the plot.
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
And it's just an engaging way to tell the story. Like with this radio style and 3D audio, it, like we said, pulls you into each scene. You feel like you're there. You feel like if you close your eyes, you can just like hear all this because it's...
Morbid
Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter
Like we were talking about before, like the music in the background and you can hear someone lighting up a cigarette and you can hear... So you feel like you get this everything happening all around the room kind of feeling. And it's also cool that this narrative... definitely places it in that specific time and place.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
A grumble that went through the crowd.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
It's your gotcha moment. Yeah. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
Stay the course. Yeah. Did you have a bit of a different process writing the songs this time around? No, no, same process.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
I hear about that all the time. Some of the greatest bands like Fleetwood Mac wanted to kill each other half the time. Yeah.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
Elena's held her own Bible study now.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
They're like, is that the one with the pear? With the pear you were talking about?
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
You're going to have to let us know if The Devils has a different name. It's the one written, produced, and directed by Ken Russell.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
Oh, that got dark so fast. At first I was like, all right, sounds cool, like this guy. Then I was like, oh, shit.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
So if you want, we can let them in now, if that's good.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
He's here. Welcome to the show, Doug Bradley.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
And we hope you keep it weird. Bye.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
Hey, weirdos. If you guys know one thing about us, it's that we love a deep dive. Well, if you're looking for a limited series that will completely consume you, we've got you covered. Those sketchy texts you're always getting? Sometimes there's something way darker behind them. Imagine helping your brother land a dream job abroad, only to discover you've trapped him in a nightmare.
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
We're talking armed guards with shoot-to-kill orders and thousands forced to scam others just to stay alive. Wondery's new podcast, Scam Factory, follows one family's desperate fight to save their brother from a multi-billion dollar criminal empire, where the only way out is to become part of the scheme that trapped you. Are you looking for a wild story that'll keep you up at night?
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. you can binge all episodes of scam factory early and ad free right now by joining wondery plus
Morbid
Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST
And this is a very special episode of Morbid.
The MeidasTouch Podcast
Terrified Trump Folds in Panic Amid Economic Collapse
Elena. The Press Hi, Karen. It's clear the President has gotten the world's attention with these tariffs. Is there – is he considering at all potentially holding off on imposing some of them before the deadline or maybe later, you know, reversing them because he's having these negotiations and having these good talks with other leaders?