275: Karen Read Trial Recap Week 4: Higgins Late-Night Trip, Cringe Texts, & Public Opinion is Changing

92.887 - 117.749 Annie Elise

I think there are still so regardless how you look at it some questionable things questionable behavior ditching of the phones lying about butt dials weird timelines and why people are going to the police department in the middle of the night and then like lying about certain things like it's their own fault right for exuding shady behavior and putting reasonable doubt on this case so if they want her to get convicted like quit acting so shady right but anyway

118.51 - 140.558 Annie Elise

The reason I bring that up is because as I've been live streaming the trial every single day for the last few weeks, I have a poll up every single day. And my poll allows the three buckets like I talked about last week. Do you think Karen Reid is guilty? Do you think that she is innocent or being framed? Or do you think that there is too much doubt to convict or no?

141.459 - 166.34 Annie Elise

And I will say over the last few weeks, it has trended pretty much the same. The guilty bucket is always between 4% to 6%. And then the balance is usually split between innocent and framed or too much doubt to know and convict. However, today when I put that poll up, again, after this week's testimonies, the guilty percentage went down to 2%.

167.481 - 185.915 Annie Elise

So are there certain things that happened this week that are now making those who thought that she was guilty question themselves and think, now there is a little bit of doubt. A lot of the testimony this week was from experts themselves, not necessarily friends or people like that. The medical examiner testified too, so... It is interesting.

186.095 - 207.87 Annie Elise

It is interesting to see how steady these results from this poll were and now how much they're shifting. And even though it's only shifting a few percent, that is shifting a lot because if you take those numbers – and not that it, of course, is going to be indicative of what a jury is thinking, but it's the mass population. And if you take those numbers and then drill it down to the jury pool –

451.433 - 470.022 Elena

And then, maybe as some sort of cosmic karma for being so difficult on Cross, Bukinik was the poor soul who had to read aloud every text message between Brian Higgins and Karen. Now, as a refresher, Brian Higgins, not to be confused with Brian Albert, the homeowner. He's an agent with the U.S.

470.042 - 492.082 Elena

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, and he was at the bar with John, Karen, and the crew, and he was also at 34 Fairview the night of the incident. Now, these texts took hours to read aloud in court, and I've done my best to narrow it down to just the highlights. Alright, first text thread. Brian, you're nuts. Foul ball. Karen, you stink.

492.922 - 522.61 Elena

Brian, you suck and you're double trouble. Karen, you're hot. Brian, are you serious or messing with me? Karen, no, I'm serious. Brian, feeling is mutual. You think you can handle me? Karen, are you hard to handle? Brian, what do you like about me? Karen, I just feel like you're from my neighborhood. Brian, yeah, ditto. Karen, and I think you're hot. Brian, you really think that?

522.91 - 547.849 Elena

I've always thought that about you. Karen, what? Brian, that you're hot, smart, witty, but I didn't think you were interested. I'm glad I stopped by. I should have come earlier. Karen, yeah, I was basically begging you. Brian, you don't have to beg me. I'll give you whatever you want. Alright, next thread. Karen. Hey, we're single and we don't have kids. We can do whatever we want.

548.752 - 572.972 Elena

brian don't you have a boyfriend karen none of us is married brian true so game on karen we can say whatever we want game on now this next one is a little bit more serious karen says i went from being solo to trying to give attention to kids who aren't mine and i never wanted kids brian i thought you were happy in this relationship

897.533 - 917.24 Elena

We're going to go rapid fire to the most important stuff here for all of our sanity. Rapid fire point one. On cross-examination, Jackson mentioned that a plow driver around the Canton area saw a Ford Edge parked next to 34 Fairview around 2.30 a.m., and then he said that that car was gone when he returned about an hour later.

918.24 - 939.657 Elena

Now, Buchanick testified that he didn't investigate the Ford Edge further, even though it was known that someone in the Albert family owned that type of car. Next, Jackson brought up that Proctor wrote an affidavit that said that Karen's car was seized by them at 5.30 p.m., but it later came out that the car was actually taken more than an hour earlier at 4.12 p.m.

940.378 - 960.081 Elena

Little sketchy, little concerning given some of the circumstances of the case. Next, Bucanek testified that he was aware that Proctor had some sort of relationship with the Alberts before they interviewed Chris and Julie Albert, but he said he was fine with keeping Proctor on the case anyway. Alright, next with, what are we at? Rapid Fire Point 4? I think. Alright, 4.

960.681 - 979.621 Elena

Jackson showed surveillance footage from different angles around the Canton Police Department, taken at around 1.30am on the night of the incident. From these, basically, we can see someone who Bukinick identified as Brian Higgins milling around the police station, the parking lot, the Sally Port, and that's what they call the police station garage.

980.481 - 993.424 Elena

So he's in his Jeep, he's walking in and around other cars in the lot, he's holding what they call a snow broom, and at one point he's also talking on the phone. So basically the point is, hey, what's this guy doing at the police station this late at night?

1294.284 - 1304.512 Elena

And when the defense pointed out that Colin wasn't interviewed until a year and a half after the incident, Clark couldn't really explain why they had waited so long. Another state police sergeant was on the stand next.

1304.852 - 1314.42 Elena

This was Evan Brent, who photographed some of the evidence that was recovered from the lawn of 34 Fairview on February 3rd, and he also went to One Meadows and photographed John's car in the driveway.

1315.34 - 1329.797 Elena

Now, he testified that he didn't observe any damage to John's car, which is in line with Buchanick's testimony, but it doesn't really answer the main question of, well, was there damage to Karen's car? Because of course it's possible for one car to be damaged, but not the other if there is an accident.

1330.157 - 1342.42 Elena

Now, just like with Clark, the main point that the defense established during Brent's cross-examination was that he wasn't involved in the case until February, and he had no knowledge of who could have had access to the car or to the crime scene before then.

1343.161 - 1358.445 Elena

Again, showing that there's, at the very least, some opportunity for Proctor to get his hands on everything before everyone else became involved. Sergeant Brian Gallarini briefly took the stand next, and he testified to taking DNA samples from Sergeant Pukenik and former trooper Michael Proctor.

1616.721 - 1633.993 Elena

And she wasn't able to definitively say that one of those was the matter of death. Then cross-examination was handled by Alessi for the defense. Now the defense's main goal here was to raise doubt that John's injuries could have been caused by a car crash or hypothermia. So let's go injury by injury and see if the defense's points make sense here.

1635.034 - 1650.306 Elena

First, we have those two more minor injuries to the face, the cut to the eye and the scrape to the nose. Dr. Scordabelli admitted that those could not have been caused simply by getting struck and falling backwards. And interestingly, she agreed that the injuries could be consistent with getting punched.

1651.107 - 1675.034 Elena

next there's that wound to the back of the head she said on direct that this was the primary cause of death so it's maybe the most important injury alessi asked if she would expect to see grass inside of that wound if it were caused by a backward fall onto the ground she agreed that it were possible but she said that the injury was otherwise completely consistent with falling backwards onto a flat frozen ground lastly there's the important question of damage to john's internal organs

1675.794 - 1697.401 Elena

Specifically, Scordabello has said that the stomach and pancreas showed signs consistent with hypothermia, including ulcers, discoloration, and hemorrhaging. Uncrashed, she admitted that the ulcers in John's stomach, which she had previously attributed to hypothermia, could have also been caused by alcohol consumption. Now, Alessi actually showed autopsy photos from the inside of John's stomach.

1698.022 - 1706.148 Elena

And by the way, these were so graphic that the jurors had to request a break. And he did this to point out that not much of the stomach area was actually covered in ulcers.